“Manufactured Division”: How Social Media Is Driving Anger and Polarization | Pivot

I never used to think about it before, but now I think literally anything I write down somewhere the government might have.

You also shove everything into JBT. Serious. I don't do it at all, but Oh, I love Yeah, I'm in I'm definitely

in a very promiscuous with the information. I' got to be promiscuous somewhere.

Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser

and I'm Scott Galloway. How you doing today, Scott? I'm good. I got a little bit of the the

uh the Xbar hangover. Did at Xandy last night 4 a.m. Couldn't sleep. What

are you having trouble sleeping when you're old? I'm getting I am. I I wake up at 48 every night.

I'm turning into one of those people that just like a ghost walking around the house. I used to be such a good sleeper. Yeah, you're supposed to do that. You're

supposed to get up and walk around, just so you know. Not not try to go to sleep lying there. Yeah. Uh what did I watch? I've been

watching, you know what? I'll watch anything with my favorite actor, Hitler. I just type

in World War II and I watch the Battle of the Bulgian color. Um, I'm obsessed

with World War II. I'm officially 100 years old. Not Rome. I usually men are Rome, but

Rome or Hitler usually seems to be things men of your age like to watch. No. No, I don't.

Not Rome. Why don't you ask me what I did this weekend? Oh, I'm sorry. What did you do this weekend? I had a mermaid party.

Oh yeah. So that obviously was for Lucky, not for one of your kids. No, it was for Clara. It was like So it

was so interesting cuz all the girls showed up in mermaid outfits. Every single one of them. And they were fantastic, let me just say, versions of

mermaids. All kinds of spangles and this and that. All the guys, all the boys,

many showed up in superhero costumes. Interesting. Yeah. If if anyone wants to believe

gender is not a thing, just have a party and invite boys and girls over and see what they do. Put a room full of dolls

and cars and see what happens. Yeah, it was interesting. It was They looked fantastic. Claire had a great

time. We had a treasure hunt. Amanda baked the cake. It was beautiful and delicious. Um and it was fun. It was

good. I cleaned the yard with my power washer. That was fun for me. That part. We really have gender. Speaking of

gender roles, that's a flex. I know. She baked a cake and you did the

power wash. So if it's a really difficult parking spot, you handle it. Is that what you're saying? Yes, that's correct.

That's what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, I get handed like this morning Saul handed me

one. Every time he has something broken or needs a battery, he hands it to me. Mom will fix it. Yeah. I We are in a

gender role. I hate to say it, but it's true. The best alliance in history is the alliance between masculine and feminine

energy, I guess. I don't know. I'm good at fixing things. I really am. That's true. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, um it was a fun

weekend. It was really nice. It was It was lovely. So, is it is there a specific mermaid

piece of IP? What is it? Oh, yeah. Little Mermaid. Yeah. Well, they loved Listen, everyone likes

K-pop Demon Hunters still. This is like a crazy trend happening. Um but, uh among boys and girls, by the way. Um but

uh Mermaid, Little Mermaid, that's the the Disney mermaid. My my favorite kind

of mermaid IP is Bill Bellich's Instagram of his 22-year-old mermaid. I

love the thought I love that they planned that they thought this will be a big hit. This is a really good idea.

Have you Have you seen that Instagram of them? Yes. Yes. Oh my god. I know. I know. I'm so here for it.

Are you Is that going to be you someday? Do not You best wife. Let's hope so. I I need to get much

richer. Why do you think I'm doing this? value that lady of yours. She is a same. I should do the same. But let me just

say your lady is fantastic. My lady. Your lady. My as Robert Redford. As Robert Redford

said when he was accepting lifetime and my lady friend. My lady must make her

feel good. I like that. I like that. My lady friend. Yeah. I often call men ladies. Like I go, "Hey ladies, let's go." And it it

annicy of which, what are you dressing up for Halloween? Oh, I'm got I'm so excited.

I'm so excited. I am. Again, my assistant, who is usually in charge, wanted me to go as Larry David. And I'm

like, that's just No one's going to invite me into the bathroom to do ketamine when I'm dressed like Larry David. Okay, you're right. You're right.

No, like hot women are going to come up to me and say, oh, you know, hey, what can I get your can I follow you on? That would work. Larry David would work,

but go ahead. Oh, 100%. I'm bringing out I'm bringing out the the one that works. I'm going as

Deadpool again. Oh, but I'm going as Deadpool. I'm going as Deadpool after the fire, so

I have to get a makeup artist to put all these scars all over my head. Oh, wow. Okay. But I don't know which private members

club to go to. There's a lot of competition this year cuz they're all they're all compet it's it's crazy. If

you think the competition between AI is intense, it's nothing compared to the private

membership bloodbath that is taking place in make it right. Oh, no. There's what happened was I'm

fascinated with the economics of this. Okay. Um, basically there's been public. Can you Which one's Soho House?

Soho House is public. It just got taken private. Right. It's a It's a fantastic deal. It's a great idea. It doesn't make money. It

spends too much money. Shouldn't have been a public company. It's been taken private. But that's sort of like a Toyota, like

good value for the money. Young. And then this really talented entrepreneur, this guy named Scott Sartiano, who's a lovely guy, started

Zero Bond. He came in with a Mercedes offering and everything's demographically driven. There's there's just so much money now at the top 1%.

And it was a huge hit. And I'm not exaggerating. And about 36 months or 24 months later, these things just started

popping up everywhere. Literally everywhere. And the bummer is I mean, if

you have money, great. The bummer is is that where do where do young people go

who don't have the money to get into? That's an opening. That's an opening in those kind in that area is cheaper and

but then again if it's too cheap then it's everyone can go. You know it's interesting. There's the same phenomena

here in DC. There's the Ned and then there's this one the Trump people opened up with Chimath Polyhapatia and the

whole gang. But that one a Trumper just told me they're all dropping in price especially the Trump one. Like it was

started at like $500,000 now it's down. No, no one wants to go hang out with those guys. And also you're

but I'm just saying it dropped. you're ignoring a basic truth and that is or we're not talking about basic truth. The reality is all these things are driven

off of two things. They're driven off of rich men and the hot women that like rich men. There's some there's some fun

cool stuff that's creative on the Lower East Side, but the reality is these private members clubs, they price

discriminate, which they should uh for younger people, but basically it's a bunch of 40some year old dudes and a

bunch of hot 20some year old women. When I moved, I I remember going there's such

a weird p like power dynamic in terms of the mating market. When I first moved to New York, I just came out of UCLA where

I was not a big deal, but I was young and good-looking and finally coming in my own and dating a lot of very highc

caliber women. I got to New York at the age of 22, was a Morgan Stanley analyst.

I couldn't get arrested because any of the women who used to date me at UCLA were dating 35-year-old hedge fund

managers that could take him to the Hamptons. So, if you're a guy in your 20s in New York, you might as well be

invisible. At the same time, if you're a woman going into her 30s who's nice and attractive, but not crazy hot, you might

as well be invisible. New York is America. It's optimized for two people, wealthy men and hot women. And for

everybody else, it's a soul crushing experience. And these clubs are that on steroids. I would agree. I don't, you know, I

don't drink and I I but I've started going to bars with Amanda. Just the idea of going to bars now is more appealing

than a club to me like with other people. Are they lounges or bars? Well, this one was this little thing

called a fountain in and it was just it's just an old Georgetown house that they redid. Wait, did you have a pimp's cup with

Chuck Todd? No. No, I didn't. There's no Chuck Todd. Jesus. The other one is more like a bar

and it was full of young people but older people because they had games, they had uh pingpong, they had um it

just was lovely food but not too fancy just it was full of young people playing

games which I loved like and not just young people it was like a mix. It was really It was Can't imagine anything lame or I just

did I just ordered Negronis with George Stephanopoulos. I didn't It wasn't those people. It was

not fancy. I'm just saying that I'm not I'm not exaggerating. I avoid DC cuz

there's like I've never found the only late night drinking spots Yeah. are like interns and you feel like a

perve. There's like no cool lounges or places. Well, I'll take you I don't belong to the Ned, but we'll go to the Ned. Ned is

actually kind of nice. It's Oh, it's a membership club. Yeah, it's a membership club. It's right across from the White House. It's on top of Rigs Bank. It's actually my neighbor

belongs. So, we'll have I'll have her drag us there. We'll go there. Okay. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That sounds great.

You're never coming here. Oh, no. The night we have our show. That's where we're going to go. Okay. All right. We have a show here in DC, by the way. Um,

anyway, we got to get to stuff. The tour is going great. It's selling great. So, buy your tickets. We're sold out.

Are we? Are we? We're sold out. No, we're sold out in uh the city. We're sold out in Toronto and San Francisco for sure.

We're sold out in Toronto. I heard. And San Francisco. I had lots of And San Francisco.

Yeah. Now, just don't tell anyone the venue is 12 people. We're doing it in Ly's old old basement apartment.

Anyway, we've got a lot to get to today. Um, including Open AI backtracking on copyrights. What a shock. And Elon Musk

pushing for a Netflix boycott. Oh, good god. But first, President Trump's immigration crackdown is escalating.

Actually, this is quite troubling. Over the weekend, he authorized the deployment of 300 Illinois National Guard troops to Chicago. Uh, Governor JB

Pritsker is warning that federal agents and raids are turning the city into a war zone. He's creating problems. Trump

also keeps trying to send National Guard troops into Portland. He first attempt to send Oregon national troops in. It was blocked by a federal judge whom he

appointed. He then tried to deploy troops from California, was blocked by the same judge who was really pissed

off. So, he keeps trying to find National Guard. This judge is going to block it completely. National uh uh

Texas National Guard troops are also in the mix for Oregon and Illinois with Governor Abbott's blessing. By the way,

he is saying some things that are incredibly inflammatory, saying maybe Portland should be gone. Um all this

none of your [ __ ] business, Greg Abbott, like sit down. I shouldn't say that, but all this uh as protests

intensify in Chicago and Portland over these ICE raids. Um, I don't know what

you thought, um, what you've seen, but it seems like a really truly demented escalation. And Homeland Secretary

Christy Gnome is also saying ICE agents will be all over the Super Bowl where Bad Bunny is the halftime headliner. Um,

I don't I don't know who, as who can afford, as you noted, uh, going to the Super Bowl, but it's very expensive for

people to know. So, any thoughts on all this? Cuz it's truly troubling what's happening here. It's all led by Steven

Miller, obviously. Well, there's two things here. The first is I I just think

this whole thing is such manufactured division. And that is if you think about socialism

is supposed to be is about equality, right? That we should have, everyone should have the economy, the spoil

should be, you know, William Gibson said the future's here. It's just not evenly distributed. You could say the same thing about capitalism if it's left

unchecked. The prosperity happens. It's just not evenly distributed. Socialism is a means of correcting that by the

government owning the means of production. By the way, this is hands down economically the most socialist government America has ever had.

Correct. Nearly liberalism is the idea that everyone should be free to pursue liberty even if

it means no search, you know, very strict private property and search and seizure laws where you may know that

that house there's crime in it, but if you don't have a warrant, a search warrant approved by a judge, you're not

allowed to go in. We believe in gun rights as a form of liberalism to a certain extent because we believe it's

worth a certain amount. I don't want to protect gun rights, but the whole idea of a liberal democracy is

the pursuit of liberty. Fascism, the juice of fascism is trying to convince people that the enemy is within

attacking attacking and threatening the chosen way of life. And that's what this is. This is fascism

on any metric. the idea that crime is out of control. If that were true, then

it was way more out of control several years ago. And also, if you were really

serious about reducing crime, you wouldn't be sending in federal troops who don't know how to conduct crime investigations, don't know how to

collect evidence, don't know how to arrest people. They're just to there to intimidate people. I believe I I am a

believer that if you're going to spend now over a trillion dollars in the military, you should be proactive around

the use of the military. I would rather see these guys and gals in Ukraine

supporting long-range missile missile launches to destroy oil

infrastructure. I would rather see them as a peacekeeping force in Gaza.

They are ineffective and all they do is tear at the fabric of society and make us hate each other. And here's the

bottom line. We're not that divided. No. What we have is an administration

and godlike technology dividing us. Yeah. Creating tension. I mean, it was interesting because there's still a few

troops around DC and I went by one last night and and I I was trying to be nice

and I I was like, "You guys should go home." Like I was very nice about it and they're like don't you think we want to

go home? This is ridiculous. They were like they were like not wanting to be there either. It's so they

were standing on the corner and then do you see the picture from Portland? They were at Voodoo Donuts. There were all these these troops at

Voodoo Donuts which are like delicious donuts, may I add? I mean what do you think about the the everything's

performative whether it's Christy Gnome or Steven Miller who I think is a committed fascist actually. The others I think are very performative. uh looking

at you know Pete Hex has one to run. I bet Christy Gnome wants to be president. Um but it's really it creates if you

create enough problem with these people there you will have a clash which is I think what they

want. That's what they're looking for. That's what they're looking for a fight. Now one of the things that's been and this is in our wheelhouse big tech is

getting involved in all this. Apple and Google have pulled several apps that let users flag sightings of ICE agents

including a widely used app called Ice Block. Uh, the move comes after Attorney General Pam Bondi pressed Apple to

remove IceBlock, claiming it puts federal officers at risk for doing their jobs. The app's creator slammed the

decision, accusing Apple of bending to what he called an authoritarian regime. Meanwhile, ICE is hiring contractors to

scan Facebook, Tik Tok, and YouTube to find leads for enforcement raids and also monitor people's social feeds.

Again, communist. This is what the authoritarians do. What do you think of

And we have given so much of our information over to these companies and they don't deserve the trust we have

given them in lots of ways. I I I I'm of mixed mind on the ice block and at the

same time I'm kind of like well this is what happens when you do things like this like people get creative. There's

one in San Francisco is showing where parking meter people are which the the city got mad about so you could move

your car in time. I mean it it seems like when you do one thing and people take a action against the other, guess

what's going to happen? What do you think about the tech companies?

I'm on the tech company's side of this. If you get a letter from the attorney general telling you to take an app down, I I just think you have to comply with

the law. I don't I don't I don't fault them for doing that. What what I think

this shows though is that we need more diversity of platforms. I also I do like the idea of encryption,

but at the same time, I like the government's ability. We're better at spying than anyone else in the world.

And America and the Israelis have basically developed technology where they can

essentially hack almost any phone. I quite frankly like that because I do think of us at the end of the day as the good guys. At the same time, you said

something that's really stuck with me and that is people should have the right to have secrets. I really like that. I

like the idea. I never used to think about it before, but now I think literally anything I write down

somewhere the government might have or that you also shove everything into GPT. Serious. I don't do it at all, but

Oh, I love Yeah, I'm in I'm definitely in a very promiscuous with the information.

Got to be promiscuous somewhere. Anyway, so but I find that fascinating. I just I'm curious how it comes back with

stuff. But so I don't I don't think you can fault tech for taking down these

platforms. I the the the images of

American cities and ICE agents and masks. Oh, they're terrible. I think it I think that will go down as

a pretty I mean not not on the same level as the interament of Japanese families, but

kind of the same flavor. Yeah, absolutely. Did you see that one where the guy was just standing there on the sidewalk? He was close to him and

the guy was like off and he like he wasn't close enough to have what they did to him. He was

near him, right? He was a tall guy near an AIDS agent and he he goes back off

and he was like, "I'm standing on the sidewalk." And then the guy took him to the ground and beat the living [ __ ] [ __ ] out of him. It was crazy. It's

crazy. Well, there's there's tests. A lot of police forces have tests and I say, "Okay, we understand that people who

might like the idea of having a gun and a badge sometimes might have a background

might have a background where they want to be in a position of authority and we got to be clear that they're going into that position for the right reasons."

And it strikes me that if if you are signing up for ICE right now, and I

realize people have an obligation to make a living, you're not doing this to protect and serve. you're doing that. I think

there's a decent chance that you have some underlying hostility towards immigrants that is not is not befitting and the

fact that you can wear a mask. Yeah. Judges make really dangerous decisions every day. They put very dangerous

people behind prisons. They don't wear masks. Yeah. So the fact that these we have decided to normalize the idea that

certain uh certain people in the of the government on on the street can wear a

mask. What that means is we want to give them license and we want to give them the confidence to engage

in depraved uh vile behavior. If I if if we trust

our society enough that someone can put a mobster, a murderous mobster in prison

and the jurists and the judge don't get to wear masks. Y then why on earth would we let people

who supposedly are legally deporting people here illegally wear masks? Why? because the way they are engaging in it

is a form of of of violence, of a violation of people's rights, of an

activity that makes you feel really bad about America and humanity and does nothing. I was with someone who's a

fairly famous anchor and their partner has left the country, their partner is legal, but because

they're non-white, they can't relax. They're worried about they know that if they don't want to be incarcerated

incorrectly for 72 hours or whatever. Yeah, exactly. Let me say speaking of judges not wearing masks,

the the per people are now under attack are the judges. Steven Miller started to call judges insurrectionists now for

doing their job. And one of the judges who pushed back on one of Trump's many

violations of the law had her house burned down. They don't know what happened, but the house was burned down.

Stephen Miller right now I if this man doesn't go to jail someday for what he's in what he is creating here creating all

kinds of anger or down in shame. If you notice one of another one of his relatives said he he's a heinous piece

of [ __ ] used to be normal and now is we don't know what's happened to him. The whole family but um but the judges are

the ones under siege. You're right. They don't get to wear a mask. They they stand they write long rulings and if

these thugs that's what they are. If they're wearing masks, you're a thug. If you want to do it, you don't need to have your identity protected. What are

you like a like a delicate flower? If judges don't, which who don't have guns,

if uh if other pe juries don't, they don't have guns to protect them, you should not have a a mask on your face.

That to me is it says everything. Let me just say the the one thing that was really heartening to hear is the pope uh

who has been talking about this during a mass this past Sunday. Pope Leo urged Catholics to open their hearts and arms

to migrants. This came after he referenced the inhuman treatment of immigrants in the United States while speaking to reporters last week. Press

Secretary Carolyn Levit as usual because she's a mouthpiece pushed back on those comments. And Mag influence also voiced

their unhappiness with the Pope. Um, I thought what he said was really strong, was a very strong. He spoke out on

immigration. He spoke on a lot of things. This guy is just as sharp as attack. And I like that he's sort of entering the picture for decency. I

guess that's what I would say. He's I don't think it's left or right. It's like don't be indecent. I don't know if

you have any thoughts on that. Look, the the term undocumented

worker is a misnomer because here's the thing. These people have documents. They have

phone contracts. They have driver's licenses. They have social security cards. They have W2s.

They have all sorts of documents to ensure that US corporations can can

build them. They have uh bank accounts so they can wire money home so banks can get the float. They have all sorts of

documentation such that we can make money from them. And the notion that

they're okay, I get it. If you're here illegally, you should be asked to leave.

I I I I understand that. Now, at the same time, and it all comes back to the

same thing, if we were serious about this problem, we would find the employers. I mean,

if they're not here because they like the weather, they're here because there's jobs. Because a lot of domestic workers will

not take these jobs. They will not wipe your grandmother's ass or build your house for 15 bucks an hour. Nope. And if we want to have cheaper

houses, cheaper health care, better services, better restaurants, we have

for the last 40 or 50 years turned a blind eye to this. We have done it intentionally on both sides of the administration. We didn't wake up with

tens of millions undocumented workers. Did Democrats and the Biden administration probably let it go too

far? Yes. But this notion of like turning into a police state and

demonizing these people and taking our eye off the ball off of real security threats. Also, I am somewhat

empathetic to the notion that Democratic governors invited an an overcorrection

by virtue signaling all the [ __ ] time instead of actually cleaning up their own cities that they're governing. True, but Scott, that's like taking a a

sledgehammer to a fly, right? I 100% agree. Right. It's a total overreaction. And

the thing that's most depressing is I shared a clip. I believe it was from the Pirates of the Caribbean movie with the

ship blowing up around the sky. And it had this caption, "This is how it feels to be a centrist in the US." And I

wrote, "No, it's worse." And the comments were like, "Uh, centrists are

fascists, centrists are enablers. We are just so divided and angry right now."

Tom Thomas Freriedman had something I thought he had something very cogent or on

on Mar he said we're not that divided we're just being divided. Yeah. And everyone says come together and

everything and we need to turn the heat down. I'm telling you folks it's not about a politician trying to cosplay

Obama and turn down the political heat. These we have connected 40% of the S&P

to rage and sequestering us from one another. Yep. And what hap I am I don't know

about you. I go on social media now and I see these videos of these kids and these women being

separated from their husbands on social media and I [ __ ] hate America for

about 30 seconds. And I'm not saying it's not important that we don't see that, but when you have an administration and algorithms

that say, "Oh, we're going to this is going to make us so much money. We're going to have so many Nissan ads from this." Yeah.

So, we have this onetwo punch of an administration that conflates masculinity and leadership with

coarseness and cruelty and algorithms that make a [ __ ] ton of money from it. And the result is I if you were to go

out today, ice raids and all, and I'm not in any way accepting or or or

diminishing the the ugliness of these ice raids, but if you go out in Portland, if you go out in Paripony, New

Jersey, or you go out in in Province Town, you're generally going to find

Americans from all political spectrums are generally speaking really lovely

people. No, you're right. I would agree. I I would agree with you. I just think one of the issues is this is an attempt

to divide and create anger and it works. And I think what's really nice is to see everyone coming around to something you

and I have been going on about forever. Uh you saw Mcronone talk about social media. You talked you you see everyone

is now on this bandwagon. And we these people should not be trusted with our

information or decision-m about our society. It's enough with them deciding what we should do. Look, we're willing

addicts to these people, but is heroin. And it will not end well if we don't take some control of this. And what the

Trump administration has done to take control is to get bribes from them. And that's what they are. These these

payouts and let them do whatever they want. They need to be drastically regulated in many many ways or taxed

either way. Uh you know, they need to be pulled back in ways that shouldn't be making decision-making. And that that

will get us to our next thing when we get back. Um, OpenAI uh does an about face on copyright policy for Sora 2.

Scott, we're back with more news. OpenAI has backtracked and will give copyright holders more control over how their

characters are used on Sora, its new AI video generation app. Uh, as a reminder,

leading up to the launch, the company has said copyright holders would have to opt out of having material appear in

videos. Scott that made excellent points last week. CEO Sam Alman said the company would have to quote somehow make

money from the app to offset costs. Oh well don't make it if you can't make money Sam and would try to share some of

the revenue with rights holders who opt in. We'll try to share. Thanks. Sora is

a top a free app in Apple's app store at the time of the taping. It's an interesting app. Um uh by the way open a

chip designer uh AMD have announced a multibillion dollar partnership uh to collaborate on AI data centers. This is

Lisa Sue. I just recently interviewed her actually. Um, but the fact of getting away with anything they want is

just they still think that. Um, and by the way, OpenAI's dev day will be happening after we tape today. We'll

talk about that more on Friday. But thoughts on this turnabout. I mean, they must have heard holy hell from

everybody. That's my assumption. Well, I've hired hackers and and AI engineers to reverse engineer everything

that Open AI spend money on. I'm calling it closed AI because they have not opted out. They have not opted out. closed.

I mean, you like that they haven't. And by the way, I've disassembled my iPhone. I'm I'm I found

Foxcon in China and I found assemblers because Tim Cook has not opted out. Yeah, he hasn't opted out. I can

I mean, that is just so [ __ ] ridiculous. Shoplifterss. And the notion that

I mean, if they were really Adobe did this the right way. Adobe basically started a generative AI, a design AI,

whatever they're called, and said everything on here we've had, we've developed agreements with the initial IP

creators, and it's probably not as complete as a wild west, but you know, everything here the you know, the people

have have agreed to license it to us. And this is this is a moment in time

where absolutely they should hit back hard. But unfortunately the smart economic

um decision is just to just to steal from people. But I think this is

absolutely a moment to push back. The the other thing I got additional hate

from this. I've been getting a lot of hate this week or I'm very sensitive. I don't know. Maybe it's Sanic speaking. Not sure. Anyways, the I put out a thing

showing a graph. LA is LA is basically turning into the next Detroit with

better weather. Yeah. And they sent you that story. Yeah. In the times what the Japanese did to Detroit u

essentially Netflix and now AI as which you had been very vocal about

the strike FYI saying this is going to cause untold damage. So it was the strike Netflix and AI but go ahead.

Yeah, I I won't even go there. That literally the the the stupidest people in corporate America ever elected a

position as the WGA who decided I know let's transfer wealth from actors and

workers to Netflix and make things worse for us and keep people out of work for

five month five months so they can come back with with no negotiating leverage. Anyways, I if you've seen the numbers,

LA has had a vibrant creative middle class driven by Hollywood and it's not.

People think it's Brian Cranson or Tom Cruz. It's not. It's caterers. It's makeup artists. It's lighter. It's

gaffers. It's sound people. People making 80 to 250 grand a year as

animators, as costume designers. Yeah. And it's all being cleaned out.

out first by Netflix who moved the majority of the production overseas or to the places with the biggest tax credits.

That's economic arbitrage based on geography. Atlanta, New Jersey are doing Vancouver, Budapest.

The Marvel films. Can you think of anything more American than the Marvel films? You know where they're being filmed? Budapest.

Pinewood Studios outside of England. Los London, too. Yep. Mhm. So, okay. You can't get in the way of

that. It's important geographies. Wait to see what AI does to these guys, right? Because all of a sudden,

all these guys. So, this is LA, San Francisco, the transfer of wealth,

there's literally a sucking sign of capital and opportunity from LA to San Francisco right now. And that is those

3,400 people that worked on uh just as as Bezos said, your margin is my

opportunity. the the credits in movies are AI's opportunity right now. They're

looking at that and thinking, "Oh my gosh, it's going to be fun." Having said that, I went and saw last night one

battle after the other with with Leonardo DiCaprio, Leo DiCaprio, and

I was really mixed on it. These guys, Benio Del Toro and Leonardo DiCaprio and

his daughter, the woman who plays his daughter, who's just so beautiful and such an a good actress. There's so much

talent in it. You can't kind of turn your eyes away from the screen. But it felt to me like an independent movie

that if it didn't had three superstars in it, could have done a half a million dollars after premiering at Sundance to Applause. It didn't feel like

quite frankly, I thought it's I think it's hugely overrated. Yeah. You were looking forward to that. I was really excited about it.

Yeah. But it's just so strange. I don't know if it's I'm aging out. I think literally the big screen is just going to go away.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's going to be kind of an event thing like going ice skating or rolling. You did well this weekend. We didn't

talk about her album just cuz I was being respectful. But guess who killed it at the box office? Guess who killed

it? Taylor Swift is the number one box office hit with her on She did a deal

with AMC. They are raking in the [ __ ] dough. Thank you. Go Taylor.

I'm happy for her. Showgirl, she's so good. Come on. Just think she's good. She's good.

She's an inspiring young woman. I'm happy. But I'm just saying that's who killed it at the box office this weekend. You're Oilia. You are Oilia.

Yeah. Can't believe you haven't listened to it. There's a whole I've had a nickel for every time I've heard that. Um I'm just saying there's there's a penis

song in this album, but go ahead. Uh anyways, um name one thing Taylor

Swift doesn't have in her purse. What? Her boyfriend's phone number. Oh, you're funny. She's getting married

in case she's happy ending for Taylor Swift with By the way, the album is excellent and it's killing it. She's

killing it. I'm just saying go back to the box office. Go ahead. Go ahead. So, DiCaprio fails, but Taylor kills it.

Go ahead. Okay. I I just think movies are becoming something like ice skating a Rockefeller Center. You'll do it every couple years

with your kids. Events. Events is right. It's just not and and I remember

thinking or if I become so extremely online, I can't sit still for 150 minutes. But there's there's definitely

something very Governor Nuomo either needs a couple things need to happen. I do think Governor Nuomo needs to

supersize the film tax credit or the motion picture tax credit for California to 750.

It was sort of a mini size. It wasn't. It's 750 million bucks for an economy

that big. I don't know. For me, I if I were him and I don't know if you could do this, some sort of tax above a

certain amount, i.e. AI that funds the creative community in California because I do think the creative community in LA

is a really valuable part of that fabric. And so the LA, which hasn't been

competitive with other regions for 10 or 15 years, is really suffering. And I'm

telling you, they got to call Barry Diller. They got to get lawyers. They have got to go after these guys early

and often because the fact that the head of OpenAI would even suggest people need to opt out. They need to op So let me

get this. There's a there's a there's a house next to me. They look rich. Do they need to purposely opt out of me

breaking in and stealing their [ __ ] Do they do they need to say to me, "No, do not come over and take our shit." I mean

that's that is such that gives you insight into the mentality of these folks that the president basically says

they can molest the other 490 uh companies of the S&P 500 of anything

they want and they are protected because what they've decided is what he's decided is that people who come meet

with me who I adore who might be trillionaires and who can turn up or down the algorithms to get me reelected

and I think they will want to get me reelected if they see I let them run unfettered and become worth 400 100

billion instead of 300. He he's just and everybody else I was at

this one, you know, this quoteunquote big conference that shall go named a head of a huge athletic brand stood up

and said, "I'm [ __ ] I I can't figure out. We've been diversifying out of

China. We we we take our products to Vietnam and Malaysia and then we find out after rrooting our supply chain that

Vietnam's getting hit hard with these new tariffs, right?" and someone stood up and said, "I can coach you around how

to communicate with the White House." And a very, very intelligent journalist said, "This is where America

is." Right. Really, rich people have to coach less rich people on how to get favors from

the White House. That's right. That's exactly where we are. That's where we are. Yep. That's exactly where we are. Let me just say one more. The numbers are

really interesting. Um, so John Dwayne Johnson also opened a movie called Smashing Machine. It's $6 million is all

he made. And Showgirl, which was a cinematic experience. It was not a concert film. It wasn't a dock. It was

just a promotional stunt. Took in $46 million across uh the globe and she gets

a whole chunk of that. So I mean things are at you have to have events there ways to supersede these people who are

stealing your stuff. um or the White House that is trying to [ __ ] you by doing favors is is is a really bad

economic environment unless you have an event or something so good that people or a fan base so big that it's going to

make you money. It's really something. It really is. I have I listen I had a friend who's like I want to get on the

Tik Tok deal and that I after telling me how dirty it was, it's like I still want to get in on it. Like

I would have asked I I I said the same thing at this conference. So I raised my hand and said, "Can you give me advice on how Democratic professors can invest

in this Tik Tok deal? How do I get in on TikTok at 60% off?" Yeah, I'm in.

Yeah, exactly. This guy was like, "It's dirty, dirty, dirty. I want in." That kind of Oh, 100%. I don't want to disarm

unilaterally, but what's happening there's I mean, Hollywood's being so reshaped. And I was

thinking, I was adding up our numbers because I love to talk about how awesome we are. We get 400,000 downloads after a

month. We have 70% of the core demographic. The people are still in their mating ears and spending money on

stupid [ __ ] So that's 280,000 280,000 people in the core demographic.

Do you know what CNN prime time gets in the core demographic on average? 26,000

87,000. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, we're getting triple the number of people in the core demographic. Granted,

it's only for an hour and 10 minutes, and they're on for 4 hours. But what do you think the cost of the means of production is for four hours of

prime time CNN? Got it. We're not nearly as good-looking. We don't have nearly as good of makeup. The

sets aren't as good. Fine. But this is you are going to see cable

news. Cable news and the big screen, quote unquote TV, are going to be companies owned by billionaires. And I

keep meeting documentary filmmakers. And I'm like, "Oh, that means your husband's rich." which does not go over well.

doesn't um it means you're married to someone very wealthy and but the the big screen

going away and I do think that there is something there is a social

there's a social need the the the middle class creative community in Southern

California is a really valuable important part they've made so much magic they have

just as we bailed out the automobile companies I I think we should be thinking about a thoughtful means of

transferring some capital back from Northern California to Southern California. They're not going to do that. They're not going to do that. Well, they don't have any political

power. David Zazlov and Bob Iger aren't aren't having aren't aren't giving the rubbing tug to

President Trump. They're not invited. All he does is get angry at him and they bend over and give

him 14 million bucks. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see. All right. Uh, let's go on a quick break and when

we come back, Elon's Netflix boycott. Uh, Scott, we're back with more news. Let's talk about what Elon has been up

to lately. First off, Netflix stock is down 4% in the last 5 days at the time of this taping after Elon urged followers to cancel subscriptions over

animated show that features a trans character. The show Dead End Paranormal Park was cancelled in 2023 after two

seasons. Um, you know, again, it was also over the over the over the threat

by Trump to uh tax um to tariff uh movies. Uh but you know, he's carrying

on his little boycotts all over the place. Secondly, meanwhile, uh newly unveiled testimony revealed that SpaceX

took money from Chinese investors despite having close ties to the US military. A major SpaceX investor said

in a deposition that some of the Chinese investors are listed as shareholders. In March, ProPublica reported that SpaceX

allows Chinese investors to buy a stake in the company as long as the funds are rooted through offshore hubs. Um, they

also, one of the things that I want to add, now these are three different things. SpaceX acquisition of Telecom,

Echo Stars, Spectrum writes, a recent Washington Post opinion piece highlights how the deal could change between state

and citizen citizens. The buy allows for direct satellite to smartphone connectivity without terrestrial in

infrastructure. with the acquisition, SpaceX now controls enough spectrum to supply commercial uh mobile services

globally. Uh they're very good at that as you have pointed out. So start with the first one, the transing. I just

think he's a terrible person and he should be call and apologize to his daughter. That's he's just a terrible

person and a terrible parent and he's obsessed with trans issues in a way that's makes JK Rowling look reasonable.

Uh this the second one of course he's taking money from Chinese investors because well and the last one I think is

a really important story but go ahead you go first. Well I just I don't remember the last one but I take money from you know how I

feel about this. I think I I think that I I opt for the material and

psychological well-being of Americans above almost everything else. And I like

taking capital from almost anybody. And as long as you put in a place that they can't control stuff, I I think the

Americans don't realize the connection between their prosperity and the fact that our cost of cap you can't get a

mortgage in Argentina. You just there's no such thing as a mortgage market in Argentina. You can't buy a h so how many

people can buy a house when you can't borrow to b to buy a house because there's no capital flowing into Argentina.

So I'm kind of like cash their check, put in safeguards such that they can't control the media. But I like the fact

that we have huge capital inflows and I find that a lot of times people on the left are not focused enough on our

economic well-being and want to virtue signal. Having said that, let's go to the the one of the greatest exports

unfortunately now, not the greatest, the biggest exports of the United States is American citizens like Elon Musk

exporting political division. Yeah. There was a rally here in the UK and

and Elon Musk shows up. I want Britain to be great again. It's like Jesus Christ, we're we're exporting this

[ __ ] right? I think the commercial opportunity, the Chevrolet Equinox EV is the third

bestselling. If I were Chevrolet, I would be making lie to this and say, "Buy any Chevrolet EV. Free lifetime

subscription to Netflix." Oh, yeah. I would just I I would

I like targeted economic strikes. I'm a fan of it now over political issues. I I

just think that's that's what he says he's doing. I assume, right? Correct. Yeah. Uh more power, you know, fine. I

don't believe I don't believe in why he's doing it, but I think that Chevrolet and Netflix should strike back. I think Ted Sando should say,

"We're offering free Netflix for anyone who buys these the other seven bestselling EVs." He's smarter than

that. He's not going to weigh into this. He's just gonna ignore it. Because I'll tell you one thing, uh people may love

their Tesla, they love their Netflix more. They do. I mean, it's like I do love my Netflix.

Oh, it's fantastic. I do love my Netflix. It's fantastic. Unfortunately, I've been subject to Wednesday. God, that's a lot

a lot of talent in that. Yeah, a lot of talent in Wednesday. Anyways, um I I don't I I think that

also I think for the most part Elon Musk has only been in the news like every 48

hours, and I think he hates that. So, I think this goes nowhere. I think this is a bit of a non-event.

Yeah. And what about the um what about the Echoar thing? That to me was really interesting. The ability to offer cell

phones, big deal. I think it strikes me that I would hate to be

Verizon or AT&T right now. So I'm an investor in Andrew Yang's MBNO,

Noble Mobile, but basically essentially since the cost to build out and this is

good. I think this is good regulation. the cost to build out a cellular network and broadband is so expensive that these

companies convinced regulators to say there's going to be a small number of them and they said fine but they said if

there's only going to be two or three global national networks you have to be able to lease them out at competitive

rates to MBNO so Mint Mobile is basically renting the same network that

that Andrew is at noble mobile and they come up with different features different like Andrew's company is

saying, "We'll give you money back if you're not on your phone." Like, "Get off your phone." And I think that's the

way to do regulation. I would hate to be AT&T and Verizon right now because

whether it's WhatsApp, which is now I think the largest telco in the world and the ability of new technologies to

communicate kind of seamlessly using ubiquitous technology and not I mean

carrot my AT&T bill I'm not I'm not exaggerating here. my AT&T bill each

month and I'm switching to Noble next week. Of course, I've got to find someone young to help me actually figure out how to switch my phone service. It's

four to I know. Well, here I am. Here I am. Call me. It's I I don't I I'm scared of my

microwave. Anyways, it's $4 to $600 a month. I'm spending $400 to $600 a month

on AT&T. Yeah. And And Andrew called me and said, "I think we can get you down. I have to get

the international plan and all that." It thinks I think I can get it down to 70 or 80 bucks. And by the way, it's going to rest on the same network. Well,

actually, it'll rest on the T-Mobile network, not the AT&T network. So, AT&T and Verizon have been terrible

performing stocks because they have a cost infrastructure and overhead that just doesn't recognize what's happened.

I do cuz I have all my kids on mine and it's a lot of money. It's a lot of [ __ ] money. Like, it really is. I'm

like, what am I paying for exactly? There's there's a huge Speaking of opportunity, there's a huge opportunity. I think this is a really smart thing.

The thing the thing is it's attached to Elon again and even but then Starlink does really well even though it's attached to Elon because it's a superior

product and Tesla is no longer a superior product is the is the issue and when you have a choice

uh you you go with the one who doesn't irritate you hugely. Um but you're right you're right this is interesting one

quick thing I think we have to talk about Instagram safety measures for kids uh are woefully inadequate according to

a new report from former Meta whistleblower along with nonprofit groups. The report evaluated 47 of

Meta's 53 safety features for teens and found a majority were no longer available or ineffect or they were

ineffective. Meta has called the report misleading and dangerously speculative. Um, you know, I'm going to hear from

them after we talk about this, but um, uh, you know, are they this is I think

it goes to the heart of what Scott and I talk about is they are going to make things safe for kids. It's almost

impossible to make them safe for kids, but from a cost perspective, they cannot like there's so many holes in all these

things. Um that it's I I think it's an impossible thing. And as Scott and I have talked about, they should not be

serving young people. They have no responsibility. They've shown themselves not to have responsibility. And even

when they're trying, it's hard to do. So, I I I just it creates a really bad

situation for young people on these social media networks, which are pound-for-pound negative uh for our

kids. They're not very positive for us either. Um in some cases they are um to

be fair. Uh your thoughts um about their ability to make things safe for young

people? Well, to me that this is pretty simple. No one under the age of 16 should be

allowed on a social media platform. And if it we find out that your agegating isn't I I can be talking about our pivot

tour and I get served an ad for our pivot tour, but they claim they can't they can't agegate. No one under the age

of 16 on a social media platform. No one under the age of 18 can engage in a synthetic relationship. Full stop. Let's

not no more safety protocols. No more technology. No more no more parental

controls. These things are we agegate alcohol, pornography, the military, motorcycles, R-rated content,

the damage these things have done. And the unfortunate thing is that you say, well, they come in with the argument

around parenting. Well, this is about good parenting. You don't want your kids on screens, don't let them on it. Here's the problem. If you take your kid off a

snap and every other kid is still on SNAP, that kid actually ends up more depressed because he's isolated. Unless

this is collective action from the government or from schools, it's not going to work.

Yeah. And there's just evidence everywhere showing that when social went on mobile, things got worse for teens,

right? So, this is an easy one. If if we outlawed if we made it such that

you kids I mean the reality is kids smoking if you quit smoking by the time you're

30 you're okay. Your rates of cancer are the same as someone who never smoked. But the

problem is you can get addicted. A 15-year-old smoking cigarettes that is less dangerous than a 15-year-old in my

view on Instagram. Yeah. And so, all right, look what we did to cigarettes. Why is it taking us so long

with social? And typically, I think it's about to happen. And it is happening, I think, largely because of Jonathan

Height's book, The Anxious Generation. But generally speaking, society takes 20 years. It takes it took us 20 years with

cigarettes. It took us 20 years with opiates. And it feels like the iPhone has taken us about 20 years.

Yeah, I agree. But I think it's happening. But all this nonsense around parental controls and parenting, no, no, no. Easy. Under the

age of 16, no social media. Under the age of 18, no synthetic relationship. They're always going to get caught out on these things. It's And parental

controls. I am really good at it and they're not good. And let me say, there was a great piece actually on CBS this

morning on uh on on schools without phones. They are happier. They are happier. Everyone's happier without

them. Actually, one of my sons, I'm not going to say which one, wrote me and and was being a little crazy on the phone about some topics and and he was and he

wrote me a little bit later. He texted me. He goes, "You know, I'm on this phone too much. It's making me crazy."

Like, and I was like, "Yes, thank you." Like, he he self- diagnosed himself and he's older. Um, but he was uh it got him

all going, right? It got him all like like that kind of thing. And so, you

can't help but doom scroll and be angry. And it happens to all of us, including

me. I actually have, interestingly enough, my threads is so full of like cooking and ASMR that I hardly ever see

news on it, which is interesting. Um, which I which I like, right? It's actually very calming and I don't ever

see angry stuff, but Scott and I are pretty clear on this. And by the way, Jonathan Hate's book is

uh I think is critically important to this, but your book we'll be talking about a lot on the tour, so we'll be talking about these topics. Uh, notes,

notes on being a man. Is that correct? Notes on being a man. Uh, thanks for that. Yeah. Yeah, we'll be talking. It's during

Scott's uh uh debut week and we hope to get it to the number one on the New York Times bestseller list with our tour and

everything else. Care, I don't I don't give into the commercial metrics of a modern day. I still want it's my personal

I just hope that I just hope that people find some reward in it. All right, Scott, one more quick break.

Uh, we'll be back for wins and fails. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails.

Um, I just wanted to try and wrap a win and fail into discussing a little bit

about um Trump's quote unquote compact that offers preferential treatment to

compliant colleges. First off, that's a bit of a misnomer. What they're threatening to do is take away federal

funding from universities that don't sort of sign up for certain

um sign up to certain protocols. and I'll go through each of them just sort of quickly and provide a viewpoint. The

first is I think I depart a little bit from some of some of the uh responses from

the last and that is I do think generally speaking that if the federal government is going to give you billions

of dollars they should have input. However, that input needs to be discussed in Congress and passed as laws

that apply to all colleges because at a minimum in 3 years and two months a lot of this [ __ ] just might be reversed. So

this is just darting back and forth trying to figure out what to do. Also, there's a lot of evidence showing that

the funding that these universities get for research has been arguably the best investment in the history of the planet

around pharmaceuticals and technology. But anyways, having said that, uh some of the things they want to do, they want

to make uh admissions basically um gender, ethnicity, race, and political

view blind. And I don't have a problem with that because basically the Supreme

Court has already said that's that's what's that's what it has to be. Um I do

believe in affirmative action but I believe it should be based on income not based on any observable

um characteristic or uh sexual orientation to marketplace of ideas and civil

discourse. They're forcing them to commit to fostering a vibrant marketplace of ideas on campus requiring an intellectually

open campus environment with a broad spectrum of ideological viewpoints present and no single ideology dominant

both along political and other relevant lines. I want to acknowledge that universities have done a really poor job

of fmenting and supporting ideological diversity. Having said that, I don't see

how you legislate any attempt to legislate it really is thought control. And just as the cops, police forces, and

the military probably lean conservative, universities are always going to lean progressive. That's just the way it is.

Now, should 90 plus% of your faculty be Democrats, that probably says you need

to broaden the spectrum a little bit. I've also seen some bullying on campus where anything outside a certain

narrative is really frowned upon. But I don't see how you implement this sort of thought control. Non-discrimination in

hiring institutions will not be allowed to consider factors such as sex, ethnicity, race, national origin,

disability or religion. I'm I'm quite frankly I'm comfortable with that. I think that that universities what I've

seen in terms of promotions and faculty is that it is not it is not strict it's

mostly merit but a lot of times it's not merit and but again there's a better

solution here and the solution quite frankly would be getting rid of tenure because the biggest problem is we don't have enough room for young faculty to

come up through the ranks because old inefficient faculty uh will not leave

student learning learning universities must must commit to combating grade inflation. I don't even know what that means. Student equality institutions

must commit to defining and otherwise interpreting male, female, women, and men. You know, people ask me all the

time if I'm Jewish and I because they say you're an atheist and I say I'm Jewish. I'm like, "Well, you're bar mitzvah." No. And they say, "Well, are

you really Jewish?" I'm like, "Well, I get to present as whatever the [ __ ] I want." And my view is anyone if you want

to present people should be able to just present as they want. So, I don't I don't understand why what the big deal is

around not letting people I've always said with respect to pronouns, I do

think it's a little bit stupid, but if you want me to call you they, I have no problem with that. That's it's not a big

give. I'll be just fine. You're not infringing on my rights. Then the the

big one the one that bothers me the most is that foreign entanglements one of the

conditions is that uh the compact requires that no more than 15% of a university's undergraduate student

population basically shall be foreigners. Okay, that actually won't have that much effect at the

undergraduate level because most universities are not above 15%. It will have a huge impact at the graduate schools where we get a lot. And this is

so contrary to everything they're trying to do because the ultimate luxury item in the world is

not a Rolex watch. It's not a Ferrari. It's sending your kids to an elite university. Well, you will pay, no joke,

between housing and tuition, a half a million dollars into the American economy to send your kid to a foreign

university, an American university where he or she will love America and go back and create connective tissue between us

and foreign nations. And at 90 points plus of gross margin, this is the

ultimate high margin export and our ability. Just as I was saying, I love the idea of

foreign capital coming into the US. I love the idea of human capital coming into the US a bet. And then the final

one is they've said they can't raise their prices for five years. I hate price controls from mom dami. I hate

price controls from Trump. There a lot of this in my opinion gets it the right

idea. But as as always, it is the wrong execution with a secretary of education

who ran a [ __ ] wrestling league. If you want to bring prices down, you break

the cartel. For example, early decision should not be allowed because if someone goes ed in hopes of getting a higher

chance of being admitted, once they're admitted, they have no ability to shop around and shop for prices. Universities

should not be raising their tuitions in lock step. Universities should not be sharing information on financial aid

because all they're doing is transferring leverage from the consumer, the parents, and the kids such that they

can't shop around and get the best price. If you are not growing your freshman class faster than in population

growth, you lose your taxfree status because you're no longer a public servant. You're a hedge fund of the class. There are easier ways, better

ways, more competitive ways to get it bringing the prices down than price

caps. We want as many as full freight paying foreign students as possible.

This is the be one of the highest margin exports we have. And the idea of thought

control, I just thought, it just goes to weird places. And by the way, if this isn't done through

Congress, guess what? President Moore, President Nuome,

President Basher, they're just going to dial all this [ __ ] back. Right. Exact. It's useless. It's

useless. And it's such This is their shot, I think. All right. Do you have a Oh, was that the win or fail? We have to

get moving. So Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Your turn. What is What is your Is that your win and fail? Yeah, I just I wrapped them. I wrapped

them. Okay. I have I have uh two. Obviously, speaking of thought control, I think my

fail is watching um watching what Open AI did here with this back and forth on

copyright. What a mess. What a ridiculous thievery. I'm sorry. I accused Facebook of it. I've accused uh

Google of it. Same thing. This is just ridiculous. You respect copyright. You do not try to build a business up of

other people's things and then act like it's no big deal. It is a big deal. You're stealing other people's things

and the things that are most attractive on your site are copyrighted material that you didn't make. If you want to

make new things, good for you. That's great. But otherwise, you're thieves. You're, as Walt Mossberg says again and

again, they were rapacious information thieves. You don't own this. Get your dirty mitts off of it or pay the people

who made it in the first place. You're killing people's jobs. you're also not going to take their seed corn at the

same time. Um, and I hope that I hope there's all kinds of lawsuits um to do so. And unfortunately, people have to

sue and that puts them at on their back feet, especially when their industries are dying. Um, for my win, obviously

Taylor Swift, I I would recommend watching the Fate of Oilia official music video. It's fantastic. It's a

really great album. I know a lot of white guys are like, "Okay, it's really great, but like they all the reviews are

like you and your identity politics." Ridiculous. They write this. They're like, "This woman is spectacular." And

yet and yet they can't possibly just give her a win. And by the way, 46 billion million dollars at the box

office. That's all I have to say. And in that reign of winning, I also love this guy. There's two things. One is the

Pope. Fantastic winner. um is is this YouTube greeter guy named Troy Hawk who

goes around and compliments people and he's built a huge following. I would recommend you watching him. It is so

enjoyable. If I had ankles like that, they would also be on full display. You know what I'm talking about. I love

your shades. You're like a benign motorcycle cop. And I like the way that you're embracing unlikely concepts and

conversations seamlessly just jumping on board my train. This is where social media shines, where

people like this are there. Like whether it's Taylor Swift providing great content, whether it's the YouTube

festival greeter guy, whether it's the Pope. Let me tell you, there's a quote I'm going to read to you, Scott

Galloway, that is very it's probably a little over your head, but I'm I'm going to read it anyway. Where is it? Um uh

there is not any advantage to be won from grim lamentation. That's from

Homer. Let's not be grim lamentators here, guys. I don't think that's a word.

Make things win at win at the bottom. Is that something you talk about at your favorite bar in DC? No. No. I'm just saying don't be [ __ ]

grim about it. This ICE people fight back. Be don't sit around. Can we go from Taylor Swift to Ice? What

are we doing here? I am just saying lament. Make things that matter that people buy that do well

economically. Say things that are are lovely to people. Make them feel better. Win by hope. That's all I'm saying. Win

by being great. That's what I would say. Win. Win by being great. Word sister. Word sister. No lamentation. We are not

going to do that. These ice people, [ __ ] them. Let's figure out a way to win.

Okay. Reminds me of my favorite poem. There once was a girl from Nantucket. Oh, wait. Never mind. Never mind.

Grim lamentation. We shall not have it. Um I I I noticed you didn't mention your former firm getting dumped by Cracker

Barrel, which is your firm. I forgot about that. Profit, right? I forgot about that. So, well, I came

very quickly tell the story rather quickly. I went to work with Morgan Stanley. Hated it and they hated me. Well, I did

okay there. So, I went back to business school. Business school is for the elite and the aimless. And my second year, I took this course called Brand Strategy

with David Aer. Changed my life and I decided in my second year of business school to start a business called Profit

Brand Strategy and was there for 10 years. Sold my stake. Very proud of it.

It's now I think 6 or 700 people and it ends up they were the brand strategy firm who recommended the logo change

and now they're the sacrificial lamb. They just got fired by Cracker Barrel cuz how does a logo become politicized?

I'm not entirely I don't know what happened there but everyone was emailing me based on you the Cracker Barrel guy I

guess cuz he's bald. Yeah, it was clearly it was clearly a nod to me. I'm like at that firm I'm like Trosky. The CEO was a difficult

person and and basically got killed. You got like my name shall not be mentioned at

profit anymore. They had a 30-year re get this. They had a 20-year reunion and then they didn't invite me. I started it

when I was 20 and now it's a Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel. Now it's been fired by

Cracker Barrel, which is a unique designation for a company. Anyway, we want to hear from you. Send us your

question about business, tech, or whatever is on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or

call 85551 pivot. And reminder, we're going on tour. We're going to be in Toronto. sold out. Sorry.

Toronto, Toronto, Toronto, Boston, New York, DC, Chicago, San Francisco, and LA. Visit pivot

tour.com for tickets. Our show, our tickets are being scalped. They went for 65 bucks. Now they're

going for scalpers and third party sellers. We should have added more nights in certain cities. It's Canadian, so it's like eight bucks.

We're not fans of scalpers. Uh but uh but we we're going to sell out. We are going to sell out, so buy soon. Um, and

elsewhere in the Carara and Scott universe, this week on On with Cara Swisser, I spoke with makeup mogul Bobby

Brown. Let's listen to a clip where she talks about the running of her company. I used to interview every single person,

you know, not every person, but most of the people I would interview. And when all of a sudden these people started

showing up and like, "Hi, I'm your new head of international. Hi, I'm this." And I'm like, "Excuse me?

I didn't meet them. Well, we we we think they're going to be the best for the brand. We think this.

we think this. So I wasn't included in what to me was important which you know

was running and growing the brand and when I left it was a billion dollars. It was a growing growing brand. She sold

her her company to Estee Lauder and then eventually after decades lost control of it and then started Jones Road. She's a

really interesting entrepreneur. It's a great discussion. Uh okay that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot. Be

sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on Friday. Scott, read us out.

Today's show was produced by Lara Neman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie or Todd engineered this episode. Jim ML

edited the video. Thanks also to Dubose, Miss and Dan Shalon, the Shock Karas, Vox Media's executive producer of

podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York

Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod.

We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Carol, I'll see you later in the week.