00:00:00
He's also got a lot of love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president a young, attractive guy. He's literally going to say, "And he's a great kisser."
00:00:06
And I'm expecting that to come out of his mouth.
00:00:12
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Scott Galloway. I'm a bit
00:00:18
thrown off by that. What's I'm in your studio. Oh, you're in my st Oh, do you see this? I'm here. Let me see. Don't I
00:00:25
look like you? Isn't this great? Oh my gosh. Look at that. Look at that. I'm Scott Galloway except I have hair.
00:00:31
Except I have It's like that show substance. I want to be the hot young one in the uniard though. I love that.
00:00:37
The only way Demi Moore gets an Oscar or a Golden Globe is if there's a much hotter version of her prancing around on
00:00:43
a leotard. That's the only way they were going to give her an award. Yeah. Yeah. Well, for for those who are just
00:00:48
listening through audio, uh although video is becoming a bigger thing for all podcasters, um I am the background is
00:00:55
the same because I'm at Scott's um apartment in New York because my Are you going through my stuff again? You like
00:01:00
to do that, don't you? No, I have Alex doing it this time. Yeah. Um my son Louis is graduated uh college. Well,
00:01:07
it's a it's a long graduation process here at NYU, but there was a smaller graduation yesterday and there's a big
00:01:13
one today um at Yankee Stadium and uh Scott has so kindly let me use his
00:01:19
apartment for the invasion of the Swissers uh for Louis graduation and so I'm here in your studio which is lovely
00:01:25
and I have been going through your things and in unrelated news do not open the guest
00:01:30
room closet if it smells funny. It's definitely not Patrick, my male or escort that wanted 80 bucks instead of
00:01:38
70 and I had to take care of it and I was a little too much math. Just don't just don't open the closet in the guest
00:01:43
room. Anyway, it's very generous of you to I'm trying to pay you a compliment. Scott and I did see each other this week
00:01:49
when I came into New York. Even though he protested and said he didn't want to see me, he and I did hang out one lovely
00:01:55
evening. You went to the Webbies and I'm like like I'm going to stay at home and and watch watch friends and neighbors.
00:02:02
Well, I had to give an award to Fay Fay Lee, Dr. Fay Lee, who was one of the very early AI pioneers uh at the
00:02:08
Webbies. And then I ran over to the San Vicente bungalows where Scott was at the bar. It was such a picture of you
00:02:13
sitting at the bar there. Sitting at the bar alone, right? My favorite thing. It was nice to see you. Thank you. Thank
00:02:18
you for saying that. It's good to see you. I literally like once a year I really want to sit down with you. Yeah,
00:02:24
once a year. Okay. Anyway, we had a at least once a year. I had a great time. It was nice to see you in person. It's
00:02:30
good to see you. Congratulations to Louis. I left him a gift in the refrigerator. He did. He was very touched by it. He was very He's very
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It's been was a great day, I have to say. Uh NY puts on a lovely graduation
00:02:43
situation. Yeah, they do a good job. It's a party, right? What? We know it's
00:02:48
New York. We know how to throw a party. The pictures are great. I love the pictures of you in Washington Square.
00:02:53
The best part was they did it in the Skirball Center. They they what they do is they break up all the colleges and they go to Radio City Music Hall or
00:02:59
various places and they have a ma a main one at Yankee Stadium, but the smaller ones are really the lovely ones and
00:03:06
Louis group uh the global studies group um did it at Skirball Center and then they got to walk out of which is right
00:03:12
across the street from Washington Square Park and then Alex was here too and he's really enjoying it. He likes and by the way he's still growing. I saw a picture
00:03:19
of you literally I you of course decided to send me a video of him explaining my
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one piece of art to me and you he looks like he's dropping his four-year-old off at preschool talking to his mother and
00:03:32
I'm not kidding. I think he's still growing. I don't know what's going on. He's I think he's still growing. He's
00:03:37
getting He's getting the kid is enormous. He's not Baron Trump level enormous, but he's big. He's a big kid.
00:03:43
No, but he's much buffer. Yeah, he's very buffer. He looks like that guy.
00:03:48
He's I I've decided he's the ultimate if I ever get really really rich, he's going to be my bodyguard cuz he's the
00:03:54
kind of guy that like could Yeah. I don't know. Figure out do your do your taxes and drones. He figure out the
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drone. I think uh or I think Louis should study um uh female biology and study abroad or
00:04:10
two. Mhm. Oh my god. Study abroad. Study abroad. Yeah. Yeah. How are you glad to
00:04:16
be back in London? Yeah, it's been beautiful here the last few days and I just did um I just did a profile or they
00:04:23
did a pro the FT is doing a profile on me. Oh, and of course they always ask like how did you meet Caris Swiss? Oh
00:04:30
god, here we go. Here we go. Say in like a in a in a wh house in a visa or
00:04:36
something. There we go. Uh, and uh, I think I think a profile in the FT I
00:04:42
think that is somewhat equivalent to being kned. I That's nice. I think it's pretty close. You're in the You love
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that pink [ __ ] What do you call it? The pink. Oh, that salmon [ __ ] Salmon
00:04:53
[ __ ] It's ultimate self-expressive benefit. I still have the paper delivered and I put it under my arm when I go to breakfast
00:04:59
at the Crosby because I think it makes me look more like Euro and smart. I actually read it, but it's like it's like a purse for me. I think it just
00:05:04
makes me look cooler. Purse. But I want to buy a lordship specifically. I want to be prince and then I'm going to
00:05:11
change my name to Shamu and I'll be Shamu, Prince of Wales. Oh my god. Never gets old. I don't think it's that hard
00:05:17
to buy yourself a sir or a Lord or whatever. I think we should try to go for it that you get one. I think that
00:05:23
would 100%. Yeah, but I think you should be up to now. Lady Scott Galloway. Well,
00:05:28
I wanted I wanted Charles and Diana to adopt me and I was going to change my name to up so we'd be up Chuck and Die.
00:05:37
Ah, I'm on a roll. What is with you? I'm on a roll. I'll be here all week. Try the ve. No, you're not on. Anyway, the
00:05:44
Swisser family extends its thanks to the You're very welcome. I'm glad you guys had a nice time. It's nice. I'm still
00:05:49
here. I'm not leaving for days. It's a nice Well, how long are you there for? Until Saturday. Here. Okay. Great. Enjoy
00:05:56
it. Yeah, I'm having a good time. I've got things stay away from the edibles. I have some important dinners and things like that. And today we're going to do
00:06:02
Louisy's birthday also today. So, we're going to do a big thing for him. He He's planning the day. More Louie. More
00:06:08
Louie. It's his birthday. It's his birthday and his graduation day. Good for him. I know. It's a great We're
00:06:13
having a great time. I have a nice You deserve it. Anyway, we've got a lot to
00:06:18
get to today, including Trump taking his Art of the Deal routine to the Middle East. I'm so tired of this guy. And the not so triumphant return of HBO
00:06:27
Max. You You talked about this. We'll talk about branding in a second, but first, the FDC's key economic expert,
00:06:33
Scott Hemple, came under attack from Meta's lead attorney for having pitched regulators on an antitrust probe of the
00:06:39
company in 2019. The pitch deck uh for the probe that apparently uh Hemple
00:06:45
worked on uh shown in court included public comments about the company's uh aggressive acquisition strategy, and one
00:06:52
was from Cara Swisser, which was only just recently. The headline projected me calling Mark Zuckerberg a small little
00:06:57
creature with a shriveled soul. Uh he insulted on Malik all this thing. Um it
00:07:03
was just ridiculous. It was so ridiculous and really petty on the behalf of the um uh on behalf of uh Meta
00:07:10
and I I heard from them and uh they were I don't think they loved it either, but they did it anyway. Um and their lawyer
00:07:17
was inaccurate. They said I was a Vanity Fair columnist. I wrote two stories for Vanity Fair a decade ago. A decade ago.
00:07:23
Anyway, just kind of shitty and obnoxious, but I think we have have to have another insult for Mark if I I
00:07:29
called him a small little creature with a shreddered soul. Your thoughts on that? And do you have a different one to
00:07:34
call Mark? What? I'm just curious. Give me a sense of what you think is happening in the case. Well, I don't
00:07:40
know why they need to like rely on this because I think they have a relatively strong slamming the media. They're trying to say that they're victims in
00:07:46
the media. Correct. Or something. I don't even understand it in that, you know, they're trying to show anybody who
00:07:51
has any criticism for Facebook, which is they should receive a lot of criticism
00:07:56
um is just mean. I guess it's it's typical plays into Mark's idea of himself as a victim. And I don't
00:08:01
understand I don't even understand why it's in here. And they called Malik who let me just say Malik was a pioneer in
00:08:08
media entrepreneurship. They called him a failed blogger. Like what? Like why?
00:08:13
and he's been, you know, both M and I and all kinds of people, New York Times reporters, everyone who's covered
00:08:19
Facebook for a very long time as beat reporters came to the same conclusion about this company differently from
00:08:25
different places. Um even, you know, Steven Levy, everybody. And I think it's really
00:08:31
um really astonishing that they feel like attacking the media is the way to go here. I don't I don't even I don't
00:08:37
even understand the strategy, I guess. But anyway, well, you know the difference between Mark Zuckerberg and my neighbor Steve. No, Steve's not a
00:08:45
[ __ ] And by the way, folks, before you filled
00:08:50
my comments accusing me of being misogynist, I'm in London. I'm in Britain. We're allowed to use that word here. Yeah. And it has no reference to
00:08:57
gender. It just means this person is a very unlikable. It is piece of [ __ ] That is I have a pair of socks with that
00:09:03
on it just so, you know, I was going to leave some for you. Now I'm certain I will. I was literally saying in this
00:09:09
profile in the Financial Times that's appearing next week that they were talking about our partnership which all they're all obsessed with us the or our
00:09:16
partnership I should say our marriage and I said that one of the few nice things I mean let's be honest there's a lot of downsides to being a partner with
00:09:22
you but one of the few nice things is that I said I get to be a reverend and there will be an uncomfortable pause and
00:09:28
then and I'm serious about this when you laugh it kind of gives everyone permission to laugh you've said that you know this case better than I do what is
00:09:35
your speculation here what do you think is going to happen I felt they have a relatively strong case and I don't usually I don't I think they're they
00:09:42
definitely have done all kinds of of monopolistic behaviors and I think they control things but I think in this case
00:09:48
um things have changed and I think the the government took them far too long to do any regulation and so I'm not so sure
00:09:55
that they don't have competitors they do have competitors although they dominate at the same time you can't it's not
00:10:00
similar to Microsoft to me Microsoft truly dominated and there were not other alternatives and in the case of Facebook
00:10:07
it is I think at the time the kind of they always Facebook always manages to do the sneakiest shittiest thing back in
00:10:14
the especially back in the day that they could and that's not illegal necessarily
00:10:20
it's just makes them as you said the word you use um but um but I I I think
00:10:25
and they always make the choice that hurts people they make the choice of uh not caring about consequences of the
00:10:31
actions they take they try to victimize themselves and blame all the critics because when they have legitimate
00:10:38
criticism, but it's a very strong case and I think they're not conducting it very well here and I think they're going to lose. I do for some reason. I think
00:10:45
that the the the tide against billionaires and these powerful tech companies is still despite Trump is
00:10:52
still on the side of what is wrong with these people? And so I I I suspect it'll
00:10:58
go to appeal. It'll like this one's not as strong as some of the others. And but some of the emails are pretty terrible.
00:11:04
See, I think this is pretty strong because if you look at the definition of antitrust as it relates to trying to reduce competition, you are
00:11:11
not I mean, it just couldn't be clear with respect to acquisitions. You're not allowed to acquire a company to um for
00:11:18
the purposes of reducing competition. And they literally have emails with Mark
00:11:23
Zuckerberg and everyone else saying it's better to acquire than compete. I mean,
00:11:28
it's almost as if they wanted to write a case study on what illegal antitrust
00:11:34
acquisition is. They're I mean, if they don't if they don't if the FTC doesn't
00:11:39
win on this one, that's it. Let's just stop all cases because they they they
00:11:44
literally they are if they had their hands around the throat of someone who
00:11:50
had just died with their blood splattered all over them and they were screaming, "I killed this person." and
00:11:56
then they didn't go to jail. That's if if they're not found guilty of antitrust. I mean, this defines
00:12:02
antitrust. It does. It does. I'm saying that the FTC's argument at the beginning was that Snapchat and Miwi was their
00:12:08
competitor. I just feel like it's a it's a stronger case. Look, the Trump administration waged it and then it was
00:12:15
thrown back at the FTC and Lena Khan improved it. That's absolutely true. I
00:12:20
just feel like it's not this of all the different cases whether it's Google Google it's like to me it's a slam dunk
00:12:26
the Apple one is very clear what's going on there these emails these I think they
00:12:31
call them hot emails or whatever are really bad are really bad and so I think that's probably what's going to do them in because a lot of these companies
00:12:38
before they get to be big that's I think it's called email hygiene like they didn't have any you you can see what
00:12:43
they think of what they're doing and you know I think the testimony of Kevin sister wasn't great for them um I
00:12:50
suspect they've got people lined up around the block for that kind of stuff if they're doing it. I We'll have to see how it unfolds. I I think they're gonna
00:12:57
lose this even though it's of all the cases it's not the strongest despite the
00:13:02
emails. So, we'll see. In any case, stop attacking the media. We're not This is the thing about there's this channel
00:13:09
Gestalt in America where anything you do around antitrust is bad the economy. If
00:13:14
they were forced to spin Instagram shareholders win in Think
00:13:19
about how many people would want to own a pure play Instagram 100%.
00:13:25
It's such a it's I mean to their credit it's such an incredible product. Yeah. And it it's Instagram just to give you a
00:13:32
sense of power of Instagram right now when we did my birthday in Scotland. I
00:13:37
don't know if you talked to any of the folks there but basically Scotland has been totally overrun.
00:13:43
Yes. And and I said,"Well, what's happened?" And they said, "Two summers ago, the Scottish Tourism Board invited
00:13:50
50 quoteunquote big Instagram in influencers and like 30 said, "Yes, free trip to Scotland." And Scotland when
00:13:56
it's nice out is literally an Instagram orgy. It is spectacular. Yeah. And
00:14:02
tourism was up something like 22% the next year and like 28% the following
00:14:07
year. The ins can't handle it. The roads can't handle it. At the same time, a
00:14:14
group of Instagrammers started posting um reels of how ridiculously overpriced
00:14:19
AA and MKOS had become. And supposedly tourist traffic in Aisa and Mkos
00:14:26
literally crashed last summer. So Instagram is shaping global tourism
00:14:31
flows now. Yep. I'd No, it's fascinating. I got a million of them, Cara. Okay. All right. Good. Any case,
00:14:37
in any case, we'll see. I just feel like what annoyed me less than like using me
00:14:42
or M as a thing is it was inaccurate. It was like I don't work for Vanity Fair. I said one thing if you're talking about a
00:14:49
thing in 2019. I said this recently after years of covering it as a beat
00:14:54
reporter because I was so sick and tired of this company. And so um you just it's just like sloppy. Just like stop it.
00:15:01
They're just gross and they're not good at it. You know Donald Trump is good at lying. Facebook is not. So, when's the
00:15:07
last time you spoke to Mark Zuckerberg? Oh, forever ago. Forever forever ago. When's the last time you spoke to Cheryl Samberg? Um, she texted me not too long.
00:15:16
You have to answer your friends. I'm curious. No, I I mean when she got when she was getting married, she said we she
00:15:23
was driving a bicycle past the place where we did code and she sent me a picture of her and her fiance at the
00:15:28
time. That's the last time I talked. It was years ago. Years ago. What I'm curious, what do you think she's going to do next?
00:15:34
I think she's supposedly, again, I'm not talking to her, uh, is um, happy with her life. She got remarried. Um, she did
00:15:42
a couple of little things, but in giving away money quietly, I think. Um, I I
00:15:48
don't know how much, but she was always pretty had philanthrop more ambitious than that. I think she's going to run for governor. Really? I don't think so.
00:15:54
You don't think so? No. No. I think she likes her life. I think she if you go look on her Facebook feed or something,
00:16:00
it's a lot of like here I am at Taylor Swift, here I am with my husband. Here's, you know, seems like she's
00:16:06
enjoying her life that and and good for her. It's not 14-year-olds cutting themselves. No, no, no, no. Sorry. All
00:16:14
right. Back to you, Cheryl. Best I don't know what she's going to do. I honestly were not really in touch. Um, so, uh, I
00:16:20
tried to reach her when Mark was sort of slagging her, and apparently she didn't think Mark was slagging her. So, I did, and so did many people, but others
00:16:26
didn't. So whatever. And who's the new heat shield? Who's the new guy who's going to lie and get paid 100 million bucks and then once his reputation is
00:16:33
destroyed, leave? Is that Joel? Yeah. Joel Kaplan, the Republican. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I I you
00:16:39
know, honestly, just Facebook. He's supposed to be very smart. He is very smart. I I saw I talked to him the other day at a party. He told me he wouldn't
00:16:45
have lunch with you. Smart. He should have lunch with me. Anyway, um very smart. Um so Apple is Let's move on.
00:16:52
Apple is considering increasing iPhone prices this fall without blaming tariffs instead, attributing price hike to new
00:16:58
designs and features. But while the US and China agreed to suspend most tariffs against each other, the 20% Trump tariff
00:17:03
imposed on Chinese goods at the start of the second term is still in place and covers smartphones. Apple built up
00:17:08
inventory and shifted some manufacturing, as we've talked about, to India in preparation for tariffs, but the company's most profitable and
00:17:14
high-end phones are still mostly handled by Chinese factories. Um, new iPhones will include, I keep saying that to
00:17:21
people, they're not, they haven't successfully moved these operations, although they've been moving in that
00:17:26
direction. New iPhones will include some design and format changes, including an ultra thin design. You know, they're
00:17:32
trying to still trying to play it to Trump. Um, they're not going to they're not going to blame, but consumers will
00:17:39
feel that it's Trump's fault. My presumably, but maybe not. Yeah, we I
00:17:44
mean essentially you have the largest yard sale in history with so much import and export business and so much uh I
00:17:53
mean the US is the largest economy in the world and so much of it now is up for grabs because of what's happened over the last 100 days whether it's this
00:17:58
tariff nonsense or people not trusting um trying to figure out a way to not to do as to do less business with America
00:18:05
versus more and one of the big winners there's a lot of winners here uh one of the winners is uh India and that is
00:18:12
Trump is making India great again. And that is people are saying okay America
00:18:17
seems to have or the Trump administration seems to the relationship with China is very adversarial and creates interruptions or lack of
00:18:24
consistency or depend dependability on the supply chain. So Trump was claiming it was going to bring manufacturing back
00:18:30
to America. Now it's bringing manufacturing to India and it's it's I guess Indian uh Indian manufacturing for
00:18:38
iPhones is 5 to 10% more expensive. So you will see a bump in prices. Um the I
00:18:46
mean the problem is if you want to talk about how this hurts people or companies in little ways. Apple really does need
00:18:53
to innovate right now. I would argue that Apple's product line is a little bit stale. I was excited about Apple
00:18:58
Intelligence, but I don't really see how it's doing anything that interesting. The mixed reality headset was a total
00:19:05
thud. the they really haven't I don't I would argue they really haven't innovated since the AirPods, which I
00:19:10
think is the most underrated. The watch. I think the Apple Watch is essentially them throwing so much capital at it that
00:19:15
that it's it uh I don't know. I'm not I'm not I'm not a huge fan of the Apple Watch, but I think you you're you could
00:19:21
argue that it's hard not to hard not to call it a success. Actually, there's more Apple watches sold in the entire
00:19:28
entire Swiss watch industry, but they need a refresh. But where I'm headed with this is the following is that
00:19:34
instead of focusing on innovation, instead of having the most important people focused on design or new products, they're focused on trying to
00:19:40
figure out a way to get the largest most complex supply chain out of China and into somewhere else or India as opposed
00:19:47
to being able to focus on the next generation of products which grow their shareholder base, grow the US economy.
00:19:53
the the the primary cost of all of this nonsense and all of this chaos and a
00:20:00
lack of regard for a lack of understanding for how business is actually done is just it it's basically
00:20:05
like giving giving um American business high blood pressure and that is they're
00:20:11
more prone to opportunistic infection or to disease. It's just weakening the
00:20:16
business corpus of the US because you have a guy like I mean can you imagine how much time Tim Cook has to spend on
00:20:21
trying to figure out a way to move a supply chain out of China to India as opposed to trying to figure out what the
00:20:26
next thing in technology is and what to say about Trump. Right. This is not something they had to do. This is every
00:20:32
minute that it takes from the executives not focusing on product is always a bad minute. Right. That's right. That's it.
00:20:39
What would you make though? What would you what I So I I still go back to I think
00:20:47
there was an enormous opportunity. I think I I mean easy to play Monday morning quarterback, but I think Apple
00:20:53
should have early on acquired BYD assuming that China hadn't cars. Yeah. Um I I think that essentially the
00:21:00
waiting list for an Apple car would be the most valuable list ever aggregated in history. Yeah. because the logo and
00:21:07
the self-expressive benefit of Apple is so incredibly strong that uh and granted
00:21:13
no one knew BY was going to be the monster it is but given the fact they have such incredible supply chain in China given the fact that they have um
00:21:20
such a good relationship with she if if things had been if the temperature had been lower imagine if Apple had gotten
00:21:26
to kind of letter L with a company like BYD and produced a really elegant cool
00:21:32
little car for $11,000 of in America they could have done. You're right. The I can you
00:21:39
imagine the iicar the I auto. Yeah. You know the thing is as much as I think they're very great operators and I think
00:21:45
they are. I think there's no question. I think one of when when Steve died everyone's like it's over and of course
00:21:50
Tim has 10xed it. Come on. I I'm just telling you that was you remember but
00:21:56
logistics can only get you so far and there there the vision thing is not as
00:22:02
like Jobs took these risks even if they didn't work right and Tim is doing that
00:22:08
through say the the vision pro etc but it's not the same it doesn't feel like I
00:22:14
I sit around I'm like what could they do to the iPhone that makes it better thinner that's it right but that's not a
00:22:20
thing that's not a new product that's Yeah Dude, okay. But when we're talking about risk and product development, so
00:22:25
first off, let's talk about the cadence of a company to go from zero to 300 billion, which is what Steve Jobs did,
00:22:30
is just remarkable and probably the hardest thing. It is really hard. It's like women will always have on men they
00:22:37
can create life. They can grow bones and muscle. That's sort of singular. Starting a company from your garage and
00:22:43
building it to something worth a lot. I do think that's the hardest part of quote unquote the the life cycle of a
00:22:49
company. Having said that, until recently, Tim Cook has added more shareholder value than any person in
00:22:56
history because he took the company from 300 billion to three trillion. I think Jensen Hong is now number one because I
00:23:01
think he'd taken it from zero to over three trillion. But anyways, but when people complain about
00:23:06
new products, if you will, there's always an emphasis on new more stuff. Tim Cook, to his credit, said, "All
00:23:14
right, I can either try and invent a bunch of little prop planes or I can take this 747 called the iPhone and put,
00:23:21
you know, hypersonic jets on it." And some really visionary moves that were kind of elegant and not that loud. He
00:23:28
took the remember the uh was it the iPod and he turned it into a button and
00:23:33
turned Apple Music into a you know a huge hit. He launched services and he's
00:23:40
all done it all around the iPhone because what he said is if we get distracted with a whole bevy of other types of products we won't be able to
00:23:47
take advantage of what is the most profitable product in history with the greatest gross margin in history that has the production volumes of Toyota
00:23:53
with the margins of Ferrari and that is the iPhone. So I think he's made a conscious decision to innovate around
00:24:00
the thing that just produces more cash flow. The question is it's starting to feel a little tired. It is. Yeah. He's
00:24:07
got a what would you put in just very quickly so we're going to move on but ultra thin is what I would say right
00:24:12
that's the only thing I that's a design feature I I I I think Apple I now believe I'm I'm been I'm writing a new
00:24:19
mercy no malice on on healthcare costs and the budget deficit I still believe the most disruptible business in the
00:24:25
history of the west is US healthcare and I think Apple should should go deeper and deeper into into uh healthcare and
00:24:32
fitness can I make a comment as much as by the way Tim is very into fitness these like exercises. He's like you in
00:24:39
great shape. Yeah. Um as an older man, I don't think they have it in them. I
00:24:44
think they're they've done enough and they don't have the like the Johnny I
00:24:49
did a really interesting interview. I don't think they have the explosive creativity at all in you. There's a point where you can't make more stuff if
00:24:56
you can't think of like you've done and by the way this is a record of a group of executives who've you know as I
00:25:02
always call them the Rolling Stones, but it's still the Rolling Stones, right? like they're not the Rolling Stones that
00:25:08
were and so they can't do much but play their oldies. That's that's my how I look at them.
00:25:14
Yeah. But they have the capital to make some accol that goes to takes energy in
00:25:19
a board. Agreed. But in a board meeting you're supposed to every at least once a year a good board's every six months.
00:25:25
You go through succession planning and you're supposed to that's when you can tell if you have the right unfortunately
00:25:31
some of the best CEOs are very good at shooting any competition. Yeah. And that's one of the things I noticed
00:25:38
about when I was on the board at NYT. It was clear the CEO was quite frankly was insecure because nobody good would ever
00:25:45
get past they they always seem to either leave or she would shoot them. Basically
00:25:51
no one it was pretty clear there was no one who could handle the job. Yeah. Which means you're a bad CEO. Yeah. And
00:25:57
I don't know what the succession planning meeting is in there, but I I would think Apple's board is so it's so
00:26:03
impressive that they got to be thinking, all right, who are the VPs and SVPs that really bring some crazy [ __ ] mojo to
00:26:10
this whole thing right now? I they got to be cognizant of this issue, I would think. I suppose. I just think people run out of energy and then no one says
00:26:16
anything. Anyway, we have to move on. Speaking of no one says anything, let's say something about this streaming service Max will now return to being
00:26:22
called HBO Max. this coming. Of course, yet again, we called it. Oh, God. Literally, I've had it. I have had it,
00:26:29
Cara. Well, so has the so has the thread, the the the social media arm of of of the company because they were
00:26:36
making fun of themselves. Let's listen to a clip of you talking about David Zazoff's decision to change a name right
00:26:41
here on Pivot back in 2023. If you had $10 billion and you tried to recreate a
00:26:47
brand like HBO, you probably couldn't do it. It'd be one in 10 chance you could do it. So he's taken tens of billions of
00:26:55
dollars or at least billions in equity and he's taken it into the street and created a fire to warm his ego. But this
00:27:03
is this will go down as one of the great brand disasters. Okay. So now it's called HBO Max, the streaming service.
00:27:10
The change marks the fourth name change for the service in a decade. Um it was called HBO Now, there was Max, there's
00:27:16
HBO, there's HBO Max. And again, the the the service the the the company's social
00:27:22
media things are making fun of it too in a really kind of vicious way. Um how dumb this is um and how difficult it is
00:27:28
and they call it rebranding, debranding. I Scott, let me tell let me
00:27:34
give you my um I don't have a perspective because I have a contract with CNN and uh I am making a a
00:27:42
documentary that probably will be on this whatever the [ __ ] it's going to be called. Um but that's my disclosure. But
00:27:48
I find this like perplexing. I always liked HBO Max myself. Thoughts? Brand
00:27:53
expert. This was probably the strongest one of the strongest brands in the arts or in
00:28:00
media. It's just anything. What is a brand? A brand gives
00:28:06
you unearned margin. And in this case, HBO gave you or the HBO brand gave
00:28:12
unearned trial. Almost anything that comes on HBO Mhm. you're more willing to trial. And the reason why is that to the
00:28:19
credit of HBO, the culture they have been able to create there such that they attract the best and brightest in the
00:28:26
industry means that they basically can go toe-to-toe with Netflix on, no
00:28:33
exaggeration, 17th of the content budget. Netflix spends 18 billion, HBO
00:28:39
spends 2 and a half. And yet, if you see two people at the quote unquote proverbial water cooler talking about a
00:28:46
zeitgeist cultural moment, Yeah. and you had to bet what streaming platform
00:28:52
that cultural moment is taking place on, the best bet is HBO. It is, although it's increasingly Netflix, right? Did
00:28:58
you see that show on Netflix? Okay. It's seven times the c HBO defines what it
00:29:04
means to have an amazing brand that creates a culture that results in a company that can punch above its weight class. Yes, agree. It is so artisal.
00:29:11
It's the LVMH. It's It just doesn't have the capital of a Netflix. Y but I mean
00:29:17
talk about, you know, The Last of Us, Succession, Game of Thrones, The
00:29:23
Sopranos, you know, you love Hacks. That's not the same. Yeah, but go ahead. It's not in
00:29:28
the same league as this [ __ ] that I'm talking about, Cara. Um, Six Feet Under. Jesus Christ. I
00:29:35
mean, these guys consistently put out Sex in the City. They consistently put
00:29:41
out this content that identifies the moment and they turn it
00:29:47
into [ __ ] Max so we can find Big Bang Theory and Shark Week. I mean, and let's
00:29:53
just go, no one on the board, this is the worst board in media. Nobody on the
00:29:59
board had the sense to go, you can't take billions of dollars into the street
00:30:04
and light it on fire. That's bad for shareholders. Can we get someone here who actually understands brand who can talk about the power of HBO and not make
00:30:11
a ri the job of a board is one to pick the right guy or gal? Two, when to sell the company, but also to have some
00:30:17
domain expertise on the board so occasionally you can save the CEO from him or herself because it is really difficult to read the label from inside
00:30:23
of the bottle. This was the easiest one ever. No, do not do away with the HBO
00:30:30
brand. And what do they do? I'll give them credit. A step back from the wrong direction is a step in the right
00:30:35
direction. But let's talk about this board. Since they merged, since Zazov
00:30:41
was able to talk shareholders into doing this crazy thing and overpaying for it such that he could go to LA and play
00:30:47
Jack Warner, the stock is off 62.8%.
00:30:53
And you know how much shareholders have lost 2/3 of their value that were dumb enough to buy into this merger. Do you
00:30:59
know how much the board has paid Zazov in his tenure for the last four and a half years?
00:31:05
$342 million. So shareholders lose twothirds of their value and the CEO makes a third
00:31:13
of a billion dollars. What would you have them call it? Just continue with Max now that they made that way. That's
00:31:19
one. And then two, there's obviously rumors and most people think it's going to happen of spinning off doing what MSN
00:31:26
what MSNBC just did. Essentially putting CNN and other things in one bucket and
00:31:32
uh the the studio I guess in another bucket. So what what do you imagine? I
00:31:38
suppose HBO would go with the studio part. Yeah, that would go over there and then the news and other subs will go
00:31:45
places. They're doing what MSNBC did. So talk about those two things. What would you have them do? call it that or not
00:31:51
call it that? Well, there's brand strategy and business strategy. They probably have to do and they lead into each other, but
00:31:57
basically we know what's going to I I think I know what's going to happen here. The company's going to go good bank, bad bank. It's going to be HBO,
00:32:04
Warner Brothers, the theater business, the characters, the IP, which will feed into HBO. HBO is the brand. It'll have
00:32:11
another component, a sub a subset, HBO Max or something. That's all the other [ __ ] And then they will spin all the TV
00:32:18
and the cable assets into they'll either consolidate or be part of a consolidator a consolidation with Comcast. And that
00:32:25
is they're just these are still highly profitable businesses but they're shrinking. So that means consolidation
00:32:31
and cost cutting. And they'll have good bank bad and then the HBO Warner part of the business will trade at a greater
00:32:37
multiple. They'll sell off the cable assets to a consolidator, although be the consolidate and they'll use that
00:32:43
cash flow to pay down the debt and the stock will trade up. And but the problem is, and it's always the boring [ __ ] that
00:32:49
gets you. I'm not sure of this, but what I would suspect is the reason they haven't done this so far is Zazoff when
00:32:55
he bought the company issued a ton of debt at exactly the right time. And that
00:33:01
is he has very friendly debt that is at a ridiculously low interest rate. And I
00:33:06
would bet I would bet that if he tries to spin those assets, it triggers an acceleration in the debt and then he'd
00:33:11
have to go borrow money at a much higher interest rate. So I think he has to wait until that debt matures and he has to go
00:33:17
into the market. There was also a there was also a way they did the merger. They couldn't act until a certain amount of
00:33:22
there was a certain but I think the debt they don't want to do anything that that in any way gives their bond holders a
00:33:30
reason to say oh we're out and you have to borrow money from us it's at 8% not at 2 and a half. So, but this company
00:33:37
will be uh an artisal vertically integrated uh Warner Brothers studio and
00:33:44
HBO, the artistal streaming network that will survive and then they'll take all of the highly profitable but declining
00:33:50
assets and roll them up with the bunch of the other other cable guys. His company will be split up. Let's get back
00:33:55
to the name. Would you have returned it to HBO Max or just left it at Max since they went that direction? Oh, no. Bring
00:34:02
back HBO. Oh my god. You call it just HBO or HBO Max? Not HBO Now. That was a
00:34:07
short period of weirdness. Jakara, do you remember HBO Go? Go. Go. Oh, I forgot. Go. Yes, of course I do. HBO
00:34:14
Joey Bag of Donuts. That's the other Like, which app do I use? I remember for a moment being like, why are there more
00:34:19
than one apps to access these? I would I I think HBO needs a distinct brand
00:34:25
identity. That means artistal, high-end, like this is LVMH. This is this is a
00:34:31
different streaming network. And they probably have what I a subbrand that's for all the other crap, right? That's
00:34:38
for all the other stuff that they play online. So I think it would be HBO and then HBO Max, right? This is such a
00:34:45
clean, beautiful artistal brand and what they've created there is so special and what to their credit, they've been able
00:34:50
to maintain it. Yeah. Case Last of Us. I mean, these guys Yeah. These
00:34:56
guys have done they've been such an incredible I mean if you think about it
00:35:02
Netflix is the Russian army throwing 20 million people at a problem and you know they just have more gross tonnage HBO is
00:35:09
Seal Team Six. I mean these are the most elite content producers. Let me say I'm
00:35:15
speaking since I'm having lunch with Richard. It's due to the Richard Bler like set the set that in motion the
00:35:21
quality and he's he's since gone on to other things and the people that he trained like Casey Bls are the reason
00:35:28
for that right they continue and I know he left the the company under a bit of a like I think he was not liking what they
00:35:35
were doing like that what they were doing but I have to say he he set the tone for that and created one of the
00:35:42
greatest brands I think with with Sopranos and as you said Sex in the City and uh Game of Thrones, etc. So much
00:35:49
credit to him and they you're right, they continue to create great stuff. The White Lotus. What's your favorite thing
00:35:55
ever on HBO? Oh god, there's so many. I don't I probably Sex in the City is the thing I
00:36:01
watched the most of, but I I love I liked um Sopranos. I like There's a lot
00:36:06
I like. There's There's so much. There's always something good on HBO. There always something good. Chernobyl. I
00:36:12
mean, The Penguin. Yeah. Just really good. to uh anyways. Oh, and by the way,
00:36:19
they don't suck. That's all. Show I just started watching which is our kind of friend's iconic The Leftovers. Oh,
00:36:25
that's probably hugely underrated. Really huge show. That actually did very well. Band of Brothers. I mean, these
00:36:32
guys just keep figuring out a way to put out Yeah. Um, amazing content. They do.
00:36:38
And so, don't [ __ ] it up, David. That's all I have to say. Anyway, speaking of streaming, very briefly, Fox Corp will
00:36:43
also launch its streaming service. not quite as fancy called Fox One. I actually kind of like the name ahead of
00:36:49
uh the NFL season later this year. They're going to jam a bunch of crap in there and they have their own streaming
00:36:54
service. So again, I think people will pay for Fox. They had another thing Fox
00:37:00
Plus or whatever they had where they had all that Tucker Carlson nonsense. Well, I mean, first off, just when I typed in
00:37:06
just back to their last story on Fox, they just announced their their first show. It's called I'm Not Racist, but
00:37:13
Yeah. No, come on. Anyways, um what? Okay,
00:37:21
that's a good show. Like, I believed you. I'm not racist, but I Is that a real show? No, no, no. But I love you.
00:37:28
See, I believed you. I was like, "Huh, I could see them doing that." Anyway, there's lots of streaming services
00:37:34
launching. Um, what do you think about Fox's chances? I I think there's a market for it. I'd go I'd just go
00:37:40
[ __ ] crazy. Like, I'd have Laura Loomer. I would just go full conspiracy weirdo. I mean, I'd go, "Okay, those of
00:37:47
you who are really crazy got to tune in here." I'd go nuts and go, "Well, legal liability though. You have to be very
00:37:53
You can't like they they've been down. They're still in the middle of a lawsuit. Claim it's an online platform." That'd be interesting. Could you claim
00:37:59
you're an online platform? I don't know. Anyway, yeah, I agree. Well, we Well, anyway, we have to move on, but I we I
00:38:04
think there's plenty of people who would buy this. It's a good idea. It's probably late. They probably should have done it earlier. Um, okay, Scott, let's
00:38:10
go on a quick break. We come back. Trump's deal of Palooa in the Middle East. Oh, good God. Scott, we're back.
00:38:16
President Trump is on a whirlwind tour of the Middle East. It's just I don't even want to talk about it. I'm so tired
00:38:21
of looking at him. Where he's been busy with all sorts of wheeling and dealing. He attended a lunch in Saudi Arabia on Tuesday with a gaggle of US business
00:38:27
leaders including the CEOs of Amazon, Open AI, Nvidia, and Uber and of course Elon was there all with their hands out
00:38:34
with to the Saudis. Some of the deals Trump has touted in the last few days, a $600 billion commitment from Saudi
00:38:40
Arabia to invest in the US, the real numbers reportedly much lower. Um, uh, Cutter Airways is buying as many as 210
00:38:47
Boeing jets. Nvidia is selling chips to an AI startup backed by Saudi Arabia's
00:38:53
sovereign wealth fund. Um, news of the deal sent Nvidia's market cap back. It had been declining to above 3 trillion.
00:39:00
And in a major foreign policy ship, Trump said he's lifting sanctions on Syria. and he met with the country's new
00:39:05
president, the first US Syria leader meeting in 25 years. Um, couple things.
00:39:10
Um, there was that lunch. In addition, Nvidia, AMD, and Amazon also struck
00:39:16
deals with Saudi Arabian AI startup. Trump seems to be using US AI technology
00:39:21
and chips as leverage for a lot of these deals. Um, uh, not not the stupidest thing in the world. U, but people are
00:39:27
worried we risk losing the upper hand on AI. We're sharing them. OpenAI is reportedly considering building data
00:39:33
centers in U uh uh UAE. We're going to talk about the diplomacy part in a
00:39:39
minute, but how do you think about the business part and uh what what he's doing here? A lot of like jazz hands all
00:39:44
over the place. I I think it makes sense this there's been US delegations led by
00:39:50
the president that go overseas. Yeah. For for decades, but what they usually have is they have a broader campaign
00:39:57
contributions aren't the litmus test. It's great American companies and also they always make sure that the Chamber of Commerce and the Small Business
00:40:02
Association is represented such that at least there there's the illusion they're trying to sell America as opposed to
00:40:08
trying to sell the people who have been really good to them and I I don't or good to the president. I think it's I
00:40:13
think something like this makes sense. Uh AI is big. He's he's leveraging it. I think they're being smart about this.
00:40:20
That's the good side of this. The thing that's really scary and corrupt is that
00:40:25
all right he's in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia wants a technology to build a civilian nuclear plant. They want AI.
00:40:32
And what do you know? They announced a giant Trump Tower in Jedha. He just shouldn't be mixing the two. In Qatar,
00:40:40
uh Eric beat him there or was there before him and announced a multi-billion dollar golf course and resort. And Qatar
00:40:48
is uh giving the president a $400 million plane. And this is especially
00:40:53
upsetting for me for someone who thinks a lot about Israel and the fact that there are still 50 plus hostages that have been held for 500 plus days. I've
00:41:00
always said if you want to get the hostages out, follow the money, put pressure on Qatar. How much pressure can
00:41:06
the president bring to bear on Qatar when they are talking about um when when
00:41:11
they are talking about doing golf course developments and enriching the family by billions of dollars? How how honest and
00:41:18
how how how much can geopolitical interests of the US be pure and unfettered around us and our allies when
00:41:25
they are saying to the sun we'll give you a billion dollars for development here and by the way in cutter it's not a
00:41:32
private company doing it with Eric and Don it's a division of the Qatari
00:41:37
government that is in this real estate deal and then let's keep traveling to the UAE where they want American
00:41:46
uh AI I chips and the reason we don't want to give them to the AI and haven't to date is we are worried that because
00:41:53
China which represents three times the level of import business in terms of oil. In other words, the UAE
00:42:00
economically is more dependent upon or Saudi Arabia, excuse me, but the UAE is
00:42:06
actually a bigger trading partner with China. We don't want to give them these chips because they're worried about leaking that sensitive information to
00:42:12
China. But what do you know? The UAE has announced that they are going to invest
00:42:18
in world financial liberty stable coin. This is just all folks. Our
00:42:25
interests are not being represented. No, the Trump family's interests are. Yeah.
00:42:31
So I I like the fact he's sitting down. I think Syria is a big I think for us to
00:42:37
establish the rail politic of of dealing with with the new leader
00:42:44
of Syria right now. I realize that has a lot of weirdness to it. I think it's I would I think it's a really smart idea
00:42:49
to try and figure out a way to at least have an informal peace or ally or
00:42:55
understanding and this is the time to cut the deal and to put a cudgel or a wedge in between Syria and Russia right
00:43:01
now is a big opportunity. Yeah. So, let's talk about the diplomacy angle of this trip. Trump is clearly enjoying all
00:43:07
the pomp and pageantry. He loves walking by a bunch of soldiers and fancy gold stuff. Um, but he's also got a lot of
00:43:13
love for these leaders. He called the Syrian president a young attractive guy. He's so much on looks. It's so strange,
00:43:18
especially with men. He said Cutter's Amir was a very special guy. In talking about the Saudi crown prince, Trump
00:43:24
said, "I like him too much." Which is interesting to say about someone who saw someone up. He's literally going to say,
00:43:30
"And he's a great kisser." It sounds like he might be leaving Melania for one of these guys. I just
00:43:35
his way he talks about men. He talks about women in a grotesque way. Sort of like nice boobs, but men is a very
00:43:42
strange like it's not just funny. He does it all the freaking time. Um I like that about him. I think most people
00:43:47
think that way. I think we're very You do. You're right. You're right. In addition to lifting these sanctions on Syria, he also said he's open to
00:43:53
negotiating with Iran, saying there are no permanent enemies. That was a kind of an interesting thing because most of the
00:43:59
Republican establishment if they they did a really interesting go back five years with like Rubio etc. there are
00:44:05
permanent enemies, right? Like whether it's North Korea, Trump has this is this is consistent. Trump is consistently
00:44:11
I'll do a deal with anybody kind of guy. Um so his this one I think he's correct.
00:44:17
There are no permanent enemies. But it's a really interesting effort on his part to be like whatever the deal is, I'll do
00:44:23
the deal and you're an attractive man. That kind of thing. I don't know. Well, it goes back to values with respect to
00:44:30
Iran. I think it's different. And I think you go into Syria, there's a huge opportunity for us. And I would argue
00:44:36
there's probably a decent amount of public support after what the populace endured from the kind of depraved
00:44:43
violent reign of Bashar al-Assad. When it comes to Iran, I think the smartest
00:44:48
thing we can do is quite frankly just to try to undermine the Islamic Republic Republic. And we do, America does have
00:44:56
or at least pretends to have values about being concerned about the general population and being focused on rights,
00:45:02
women's rights around the world. And the one place I think that we have an opportunity is that the Islamic Republic
00:45:09
does not have a great deal of support from the Iranian people. And as someone who grew up with Iranians in LA, I've
00:45:17
always thought Iranian Iranians are more American than Americans. that we should be great allies with Iran because when
00:45:25
they're really into education, really into capitalism, you know, I think Iran is just a huge missed opportunity for us
00:45:32
and and when you meet especially some of the like in you want to talk about the
00:45:38
benefits of immigration. We had we got so many outstanding people
00:45:43
uh after the revolution who immigrated to the US. So many great doctors, scientists, business people. One of my
00:45:50
mentors, a guy named Hamid Mogadam, who runs uh the largest REIT in America,
00:45:55
prologus, came here after the revolution. I mean, we got such incredible human talent and it's a shame
00:46:01
that this this in my opinion backward primitive oppressive government uh is
00:46:08
unfortunately through kind of a reign of terror um is the leadership of Iran. So,
00:46:13
I think we should kind of take the Reagan-esque approach and that is we have absolutely no quarrel with the Iranian people, but the leadership and
00:46:20
the governing body there is not good for the the you know the Iranian people or for the world. Um and and and we have a
00:46:28
tendency to group all of the Gulf as Americans into one group of people. They are much different. The Saudis do not
00:46:34
have any love lost with Iran. So this is but this is a place you want to talk about the need for someone really
00:46:40
[ __ ] smart in an incredible team that is solely based on competence not whether Eric is selling golf courses.
00:46:46
It's the gulf between economic opportunities between a flash point of
00:46:51
potential violence or wars that could erupt and destabilize the world. We've got to be really honest and really smart
00:46:58
and not be seen as [ __ ] [ __ ] over there collecting planes and golf
00:47:03
courses. Yeah. One of the interesting things is this this beef between um Business Insider uh which is owned by
00:47:10
Axel Springer and uh they wrote a piece about how Don Jr.'s is like it makes Hunter Biden blush essentially and of
00:47:16
course they're going after the just a really minor story by a very good reporter by the way Bethany Mlan. Um,
00:47:22
and they're putting pressure. They don't want to they will not take any criticism over what is clearly grift like griff
00:47:29
griff griff griff. Sorry, Don. This I think it's the griff that bothers them. I think it's they I think they're it's
00:47:35
associating I think I think it's the association or the implication that that Don has a drug problem. I I think
00:47:42
they're fine with I think they're like we're we're capitalists. We're grifters. Interesting. I think he's pissed off
00:47:48
that you're saying I'm like Hunter that my drug habit is out of control. Oh, interesting. Oh, I didn't thought think
00:47:54
about that. I It wasn't in the story. I read the story. I was Anyway. All right. Well, fine. Whatever. There. It's grift.
00:47:59
Um All right, Scott. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about RFK's bizarre swim. Scott, we're
00:48:06
back with more news. Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. had quite a week. First off, let's listen to a clip
00:48:11
of him answering questions before a House uh committee. I don't think people should be taking advice, medical advice
00:48:18
from me. That sort of says it. He also said his opinions on vaccines are irrelevant. And thank goodness he's not
00:48:24
uh prompting people to take his advice because he recently posted a photo of himself and his grandchildren swimming in Rock Creek, which is close swimming
00:48:30
because it's used for sewer runoff, ecoli. Um he did look good, like he's in
00:48:36
good shape, but it was pretty like astonishing that he's I was sort of like, whoa, I won't even go in there
00:48:41
with like rubber boots essentially. um he really seems out of it in some ways, but he
00:48:49
seems to be just plotting on and and cutting things that are critically important for kids especially uh and
00:48:54
safety of all of us. But uh any thoughts on RFK and his swim? I think that's
00:49:00
noise. uh if whatever the bare is noise the the key to your story in the what we
00:49:07
should in my opinion be zeroing in on because it's more substantive that the head of one of the biggest agencies and
00:49:12
who sets the tone for where we allocate resources to try and keep America healthy him claiming that he doesn't
00:49:19
give medical advice is such a just an outrageous lie he has been one of the
00:49:24
strongest antivaccine advocates that is medical advice he has written a book the
00:49:30
real Anthony Fouchy, a book, a best-selling book, Kenny Kennedy offered medical perspective contradicting
00:49:36
mainstream public health guidance. He's promoted alternatives to CO 19 treatments. Medical advice. He's made uh
00:49:44
I think it's called theol claims. For years, Kennedy has advised people to avoid vaccines containing theol. That is
00:49:50
medical advice. EMF health claims. Kennedy has suggested electromagnetic fields from wireless technology post
00:49:56
serious health risk. That is medical advice. discussions about his own medical conditions. He talking about
00:50:02
measles and reubella claims about medical conditions in children. He gives more [ __ ] medical advice than a
00:50:08
surgeon general. And he presides over a medical organization. That's the thing that I think he's saying I don't think
00:50:13
people should be taking medical advice from me, which is such it's so disingenuous is what you're saying. Essentially, he he realizes what he has
00:50:21
said. This guy is literally the best friends the best friend Musles and Rebella ever had. Right. They're like,
00:50:27
"Oh my god, we're back." Right. Right. We thought we were out of business, but this guy wants to put us back on a
00:50:34
global tour. Right. He wants to, you know, first stop Texas and really crazy conservative places. We're back for a
00:50:41
limited time only. Oh, maybe it's going to be an extended time bringing you, you know, this this band from the 50s and
00:50:47
60s, Measles and Reubella. This guy is so And the problem
00:50:53
is he's very handsome. He's very compelling. He is very good on some issues on the environment, in my
00:50:58
opinion, on Israel. He's powerful. You want to like him. And this guy is so [ __ ] up in the head and dangerous when
00:51:05
it comes to medical advice and vaccines. And this is the guy figuring out where we're going to allocate resources. He's
00:51:11
fired so many really good, thoughtful people who save lives. And again, it's
00:51:16
this death by a thousand cuts. There's going to be kids. there's going to be more more death, disease, and disability
00:51:24
because this guy is in office. And for him to say, "You shouldn't take
00:51:29
medical." He's trying to backtrack cuz some of the [ __ ] he has said lately. There was no diabetes when I was a kid.
00:51:35
He is constantly spewing misinformation. Can I just point out the the stream thing? I know it's a distraction, but
00:51:41
it's not actually because it shows the same kind of lack of care. I mean like if even one person goes in that stream
00:51:48
like he's in there with children it's poop it's e coli it's [ __ ] he's saying
00:51:54
something rather disturbing and he look he can do whatever he wants if he wants to swim in [ __ ] good luck Robert I can't
00:52:01
believe he continues to survive but with all the stuff he does but um I think it
00:52:07
is important that he's doing that like here's the head of the health and human services swimming in a sewer and saying
00:52:13
hey I'm having fun I just I don't think it's a distraction. I think it says exactly what you are saying here. Anyways, I I'm I I think that there's a
00:52:22
lot of people, you know, Secretary Hagstath puts us in the most immediate danger because incompetence overseeing
00:52:29
the largest military in the world is just dangerous on a short-term basis. But over the medium and the long term,
00:52:35
more death, disease, and disability, unnecessary death, disease, and disability will be spread by RFK Jr. And
00:52:42
I don't say that lightly. I that is a terrible thing to say about someone and I think there's a lot of evidence
00:52:47
backing that statement up. I I would agree. As you said before, planes were not having all these near misses when
00:52:54
when Pete Buddha Judge was in there. Um airline things weren't falling off of
00:52:59
aircraft carriers when Pete Heg went before Breedth and stuff like that. And and in this case, I agree it's a
00:53:05
long-term danger, especially with the decimation of science. Um, and everything he does is always either
00:53:12
performative, grotesque, and always dangerous for people's health and to for
00:53:18
he's he's really one of the more dangerous. And this whole make America healthy again is such a [ __ ]
00:53:25
distraction. It is. I agree. All I granted, no doubt. No doubt. We need to look at our food supply and sugar. No
00:53:31
doubt. It's hard to find sugar in Scott's apartment, everybody. Just so you know. Well, you know why? because I have money and I can buy I can buy
00:53:37
healthy food. I can go to doctors. No, I'm trying to make a serious point here. Yeah. If these guys were serious about
00:53:45
health of America, Mhm. they would have a more progressive tax structure. Yep. That would that would literally be if
00:53:51
you wanted to increase the health of America, give kids access, get rid of food deserts, give kids access to good,
00:53:57
healthy food, make it such that people have the time to exercise. 100%. You're
00:54:02
absolutely Scott. President running for president of America. Um, all right. One more quick break and we'll be back for
00:54:08
predictions. I'm excited to hear a prediction. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. Oh. Um, yeah, that the Well,
00:54:18
first off, while I would enjoy I'm all down I think the American public should be down with him getting that 747 on one
00:54:26
condition. They paint along the side of it. It says Qatar's [ __ ] Yeah. I think that I think that that would be the
00:54:33
trade. But anyways, being serious, my prediction is the following. The plane's not going to happen. Cara, yeah, these
00:54:38
people they're so amateur and I've been saying for a while they're so good at the grift. They got this grift wrong
00:54:45
because here's the thing. the NSA, the CIA, uh the Secret Service who's charged
00:54:51
with the president's safety are going to say, "You realize a very small amount of C2 explosive could be put anywhere on
00:54:59
this plane that has the wiring of, you know, a hospital complex." And if they
00:55:06
at some point decided they didn't like who was on the plane, including you. So, in order for this plane to live up to
00:55:13
vet security standards and protocols, they would have to disassemble it and
00:55:18
reassemble it. He can't take this plane. Not because he's not a criminal, not because he doesn't want it, not because
00:55:25
they're not willing to give it, but his security apparatus is going to sit down with him and say, "We need to have an
00:55:30
adult conversation with you." You can't have a foreign government giving you a
00:55:36
piece of technology that you're flying in at 40,000 ft. We can't ensure your
00:55:41
safety. And the only way we'd be able to do that is to take the thing down to a series of 48,000 parts and then put it
00:55:48
back together again. Do you remember, it reminds me of, do you remember when we let the Russians build our embassy in
00:55:53
Moscow? Yes, that's right. It was full of like listening devices. They would just literally they would start
00:55:59
hammering pieces of the wall and they'd find listing devices everywhere. Everywhere like concrete. Yeah, that's
00:56:04
right. Finally, they said there's no way there's no way we can make this thing
00:56:10
ever secure. So, they said just demolish the thing. So, anyways, my prediction is
00:56:16
uh the plane thing's not going to happen. Let me put it this way. It's not going to be air for It's not going to be
00:56:22
Air Force One. Yeah. Well, the the Boeing's been building one, right? Correct. is just taking too long for
00:56:27
Trump. He wants a fancier, slicker plane. He's so gross. He's so grot. And
00:56:33
also, by the way, I think you're right cuz the plane is a real symbol. It's not a little grift. It's like a big flying
00:56:39
huge [ __ ] huge symbol of our power symbol. Symbol of real I love that. One of my favorite photographs, I was trying
00:56:45
to get a print of it was uh when China was waving their finger at us and
00:56:51
telling us not to go to Taiwan and Nancy Pelosi showed up in an America, very American looking plane and they parked
00:56:56
the plane behind her and there she was in high heels and a pink pants suit. And it was just like [ __ ] a I love
00:57:02
America. 77y old woman gets on a plane for 14 hours, figures out a way to look
00:57:08
fabulous and takes a picture and heals in front of our plane. I thought that was really I thought it was a great
00:57:13
image. Oh, there you complimented Nancy Pelosi. That's a new one. Anyway, I like the speaker. Yeah. Um so anyway, uh I
00:57:19
have just a very brief thing just the New York Times just came out with a piece again speaking of this kind of thing. Um uh this this group called the
00:57:27
Technology Transparency Project is a nonprofit that focuses on accountability
00:57:33
um for tech um said that more let me read the lead. More than a year after researchers first warned that X was
00:57:39
potentially violating US sanctions by accepting payments for subscription accounts from terrorist organizations and other groups barred from doing
00:57:46
business in the country. Elon Musk social media platform continues to accept such payments according to this
00:57:51
report, this new report. Uh we had said that he wasn't going to stop a year a while ago. So we got that one right,
00:57:57
just so you know. Anyway, once again, they just love they love him a terrorist. Anyway, we want to hear from
00:58:02
you. Uh, send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:58:09
the show or call 85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe, uh, this
00:58:14
week on ProfG conversation, Scott spoke with Timothy Snder, a leading historian of authoritarianism, Ukraine, and
00:58:20
Eastern Europe. I've interviewed him, too. But just the news recently, he's moving to Canada. He and his wife, I
00:58:25
believe. But let's listen to a clip. When we make enemies unnecessarily, we are encouraging terrorism. So, it's not
00:58:32
just that we're putting our defenses down, which we're clearly doing. It's also that we're inviting the offense, which we're also clearly doing. What the
00:58:38
Trump people are doing is draining American power out of the system because the international system, our power in
00:58:44
the international system depended upon, among other things, relationships, trust, alliances,
00:58:50
um, reliability, treaties, but everybody else's power remains. Everybody else is now more relatively powerful with
00:58:56
respect to us. And so, of course, they can now afford to think about interventions and adventures which they wouldn't have been able to think about
00:59:02
before. I agree completely. Did you like that conversation? He's really smart. I love that stuff. I'm fascinated by it.
00:59:08
But just just just for the for the record, because I asked him, I said, "Why did you move to Canada?" And he
00:59:14
said that it didn't have anything to do with the current political climate, that it was a lifestyle. Yeah. Family life. Yeah. And also I they they did they did
00:59:22
a story, I think, in the Times today about that. And there was a little bit there was some of like you can't go away
00:59:28
from history. I believe I they definitely did um talk he and his wife
00:59:33
um there sort of a power couple his history department power couple his wife Marcy Shore um they're all going to
00:59:40
Toronto but there was some element of you can't escape history and this is not a good situation to be in. We'll see how
00:59:46
many scholars actually leave. There's you know there's a move and uh the the new head of I know firsthand they're
00:59:52
they're being recruited. Yeah, they're being recruited by say France for example, the the new head of the NIH
00:59:58
who's I think is a loudmouth. Um and and China. Yeah, exactly. And the UK. I
01:00:03
mean, I'm telling you folks, the best and brightest at these universities are
01:00:09
getting calls with offers for money, intellectual, and academic freedom. But
01:00:14
we were talking about this guy moving to Canada. It's interesting. You know there's that you know why that you can't
01:00:22
actually a guy who's from Boston is not you can't bury him in Toronto. You know
01:00:27
why? No. Oh no. Because he's still alive.
01:00:32
Um anyway it's just an interesting time. One the head of the NIH said about
01:00:38
France taking scientists. He goes oh it's a nice place to visit. What an idiot. What a stupid idiot in that way.
01:00:43
People are making are thinking about this at the very least, which is they never would have in a million years. A
01:00:49
trend. What? It's a trend. It's a trend. Um, uh, we're not moving. We're staying here. I'm going to stay in Scott's
01:00:54
apartment and never leave. Um, okay. That's the show. Thank you, uh, for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and
01:01:00
subscribe to our YouTube channel, which is growing quite smartly. Uh, we'll be back next week. Uh, Scott, read us out.
01:01:08
Today's show is produced by Laura Neman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie had engineered this
01:01:13
episode. Thanks also to Dub Bros, Miss Aaro and Dan Shalon. Mishak Kerwa is Fox Media's executive producer of podcast.
01:01:19
Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York
01:01:25
Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech
01:01:32
and business. Louis Swisser, congratulations. Well done. Graduation. Happy birthday, Lou, too.
