00:00:00
We're having a good day here over at
00:00:01
Pivot. Oh my god. Oh my god. Let's just
00:00:04
liberate. Literally.
00:00:11
Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York
00:00:13
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:14
Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I'm Scott
00:00:16
Galloway and it's Liberation Day. When I
00:00:20
heard about these two Yeah. when I saw
00:00:23
the tweet were basically the fastest
00:00:26
zero to Europe pedophile land speed
00:00:29
record set. Yeah. From Elon Musk. I got
00:00:32
to be honest. The blood flow came back.
00:00:34
Yeah. Did it. The blood flow came back.
00:00:37
I'm even hard up. Oh my god. Oh my god.
00:00:41
Mean girls except with old men. The
00:00:44
first breakup of pride. Oh my god. Let's
00:00:46
explain what's happening here cuz
00:00:48
listen, Trump Elon bromance is
00:00:50
officially over. Let's just say let's
00:00:52
they have broken up. This is like
00:00:54
housewives of New York like but times 20
00:00:56
on steroids. The two men laid into each
00:00:59
other publicly on Thursday. This is
00:01:01
after like troubling a couple a week or
00:01:03
so of troubling as Elon left and they
00:01:05
had that nice little Oval Office thing.
00:01:07
But today it it broke hard, real hard.
00:01:10
Speaking of hard, um, with Trump
00:01:12
expressing his anger and frustration
00:01:14
after Elon called his big, beautiful
00:01:15
bill a disgusting abomination, which is
00:01:19
fantastic. Sitting in the Oval Office
00:01:21
with Germany's chancellor, Trump
00:01:22
suggested Elon was suffering from Trump
00:01:25
derangement syndrome, which is something
00:01:27
Elon's accused people of. Meanwhile,
00:01:29
Elon started [ __ ] posting on X in real
00:01:32
time, saying, "Without me, Trump would
00:01:33
have lost the election." And such
00:01:35
ingratitude. He's probably correct.
00:01:37
Trump later threatened to cut Elon's
00:01:39
government contracts and subsidies
00:01:41
subsidies to which Elon replied in light
00:01:43
of the president's statement about
00:01:45
cancellation of my government contracts.
00:01:46
SpaceX will be begin decommissioning its
00:01:49
Dragon spacecraft immediately. This is
00:01:51
what NASA uses to do everything right
00:01:54
now. Um it's just it's just ugliness.
00:01:58
And then of course he threw in a
00:01:59
pedophile thing around um around Epstein
00:02:03
saying Trump was in the Epstein files.
00:02:04
That's why they didn't release them.
00:02:05
It's that's just in the hour it
00:02:08
happened. Um Trump also had no qualms
00:02:11
about referencing Elon's black eye in
00:02:13
the Oval Office last week. Let's listen.
00:02:15
You saw a man who was very happy when he
00:02:19
stood behind the Oval desk. And uh even
00:02:22
with the black eye, I said, "Do you want
00:02:23
a little makeup? We'll get you a little
00:02:25
makeup." But he said, "No, I don't think
00:02:27
so." Which is
00:02:29
interesting and very nice. He wants to
00:02:31
be who he is. So you could make that
00:02:33
statement, too, I guess. Look, Elon and
00:02:36
I had a great
00:02:38
relationship. Uh, I don't know if we
00:02:40
will anymore. Don't know if he will.
00:02:41
This is like such a great breakup. I'll
00:02:43
note I've been talking about this
00:02:44
breakup for a while now. I knew this day
00:02:46
was coming and how it would go down. I
00:02:48
did. Let's listen to what I said back in
00:02:50
the fall. It's like two like desperate
00:02:54
people desperate for attention sponges
00:02:56
fighting with each other. This is
00:02:58
Highlander to me. There can be only one.
00:03:00
I think they're going to have such a
00:03:01
falling out. It's going to be delicious
00:03:02
to watch when it comes. All right. It's
00:03:04
delicious. Scott, it was just a week ago
00:03:06
these two were doing this lovely sendoff
00:03:08
in the Oval Office, but it was weird.
00:03:09
For sure. Um, what do you make of how
00:03:12
ugly it got and so fast? I mean, as hard
00:03:14
as you are. Um, that's something I
00:03:16
haven't heard from a woman in 15 years.
00:03:18
Yeah, I know. I had to do it. I have.
00:03:19
It's clear. Just a couple more. These
00:03:21
two toddlers continue to throw [ __ ] at
00:03:23
each other. Elon posted he was, as I
00:03:25
said, dropping a really big bomb that
00:03:27
Trump is in the Epstein files. responded
00:03:29
yes to a post about impeaching Trump and
00:03:31
replacing with JD Vans. The girls are
00:03:34
fighting is trending on X. I'm just
00:03:37
going to read a couple more tweets. This
00:03:38
is like Kendrick versus Drake but with
00:03:40
two drakes. Ashley Sinclair who just had
00:03:43
Elon's baby, alleged baby. Hey real
00:03:45
Donald Trump, let me know if you need
00:03:47
any breakup advice. Kanye West weighed
00:03:49
in saying, "Bro, please know we love you
00:03:52
both so much. Thanks Kanye." There's a
00:03:54
tweet making fun of David Saxs asking to
00:03:56
be picked up at the White House because
00:03:58
he's scared. Um, what do you what do you
00:04:01
think's happened here, Scott? I mean,
00:04:03
besides enjoyment for you and I and the
00:04:06
rest of the world, I think this is a
00:04:08
great example of what it means to not be
00:04:10
a man. Grown men are supposed to be able
00:04:13
to take blows and be the bigger man and
00:04:15
walk away. I just think these are two
00:04:16
[ __ ] manchildren.
00:04:19
And it's it's just it's if it wasn't so
00:04:22
sad, it'd be this funny. Or I guess it's
00:04:24
just so beyond sad. It's funny. I was
00:04:27
looking I was looking for some sort of
00:04:29
insight here other than these are just
00:04:31
two toddlers. Um you know, a drug addict
00:04:35
versus a malignant a malignant toddler.
00:04:39
I I went to okay, who does the market
00:04:41
think is going to win? And Donald Trump,
00:04:43
well, Donald Trump media closed down 8%.
00:04:46
Tesla stock is down by 14%. Tesla's lost
00:04:49
$150 billion in value today. But that
00:04:51
might be because Tesla actually has a
00:04:52
real business you can do some value to.
00:04:56
But $150 billion in destruction and
00:04:59
value. I mean essentially what Musk is
00:05:01
doing is what every CEO is afraid to do.
00:05:04
Musk doesn't every CEO in America has
00:05:07
been afraid to show their true feelings
00:05:08
and id for fear it would hurt
00:05:10
shareholder value. Musk doesn't care. So
00:05:12
he's willing to say accuse the president
00:05:15
of being a
00:05:17
pedophile and he loses $150 billion in
00:05:20
value at Tesla. And then if you look at
00:05:24
if you look at um Koshi and some of the
00:05:27
things that investors or some of the
00:05:29
things that's going on here um the
00:05:32
chance that the the uh the bill gets
00:05:35
passed has gone down. Um there's uh I
00:05:39
would say the
00:05:41
biggest biggest uh will Trump and the EV
00:05:45
tax grade odds spike from 74% to 80%.
00:05:48
When will the Senate pass the
00:05:50
reconciliation bill? Odds that it will
00:05:51
pass before July fell from 49 to 44%. So
00:05:54
it feels like this chaos is not going to
00:05:56
be good for the for the trending bill.
00:06:00
Yeah, the most interesting thing I saw
00:06:02
is that there's some talk that this
00:06:05
might be the potential silver lining is
00:06:08
it might shift Elon back to the middle.
00:06:09
Two hours ago, Mus tweeted a poll that's
00:06:11
gotten over 2 million votes. He asked,
00:06:13
"Is it time to create a new political
00:06:15
party in America that actually
00:06:17
represents the 80% in the middle and 80%
00:06:19
of respondents have said yes?" But it
00:06:21
really is sort of a the two arguably the
00:06:24
two most powerful men in the world
00:06:26
squaring off in the high school
00:06:28
cafeteria. What do you think? So, which
00:06:29
one would I think Donald Look, Donald
00:06:33
Trump is going to prevail because he's
00:06:34
the president, right? Ultimately, that's
00:06:35
right. But I think it's finished for
00:06:38
him. I think it's finished cuz Elon is
00:06:41
willing to go Yeah. nuclear. He really
00:06:44
is. He doesn't have a problem with which
00:06:46
what you just said, interestingly
00:06:47
enough, that that CEOs all want to say
00:06:50
this to Trump, right? They want to stop
00:06:52
being pushed around. If he's doing it,
00:06:54
it will give permission to everybody
00:06:56
else to start pushing back on Trump. I
00:06:58
think Oh, I don't know. Because I think
00:07:02
every CEO looks at a a 14% decline in
00:07:04
the stock in one day and thinks I don't
00:07:07
control my board, I could get fired for
00:07:09
this [ __ ] I mean, Tesla shed $150
00:07:12
billion in value. But I mean, that the
00:07:14
idea that you can if Elon's doing it,
00:07:17
like especially ones that are, you know,
00:07:18
look, Jaime Diamond's been critical. I
00:07:21
think it'll give people permission to be
00:07:22
more critical of Trump and start to chip
00:07:24
away at his power, you know, because I I
00:07:28
I've always thought that he's in real
00:07:30
trouble because of the trends in the
00:07:31
polling and everything else and by 2026
00:07:33
it's finished for him. But now this sort
00:07:36
of there's no telling what he I warned
00:07:38
the Trump people this there's also no
00:07:40
telling what he could do, right? You
00:07:43
just don't know where he's going. He's
00:07:45
got means. He's got motive. He's angry.
00:07:48
He's, as you know, a petty person. He's
00:07:50
got, as you
00:07:51
discussed, a problem with some drugs.
00:07:54
Um, I think this guy could just go right
00:07:57
off the rails and take Trump with him
00:07:58
because he's so affiliated with Trump if
00:08:00
you think about it. And he's absolutely
00:08:02
right. He helped get he he was the
00:08:04
critical part of getting Trump elected,
00:08:07
I think. Yeah, he may have he may have
00:08:09
in fact got him elected. But the thing
00:08:10
is, and you've been more right than
00:08:13
wrong on this, you predicted a while ago
00:08:14
that this was going to be the mother of
00:08:16
all breakups at some point, and it's
00:08:17
happening. And now it seems obvious, but
00:08:19
at the time people weren't predicting
00:08:21
it, and you did predict it. But here's
00:08:23
the thing. I think Trump has proven
00:08:27
himself, we're in a slow burn towards an
00:08:30
autocracy and autocrats will sick their
00:08:34
department of justice on people and he's
00:08:36
the president. And so if he wants to
00:08:38
sick his DOJ on them, if he wants to
00:08:40
fire up inspector generals to say, "I
00:08:43
have some real fears about his
00:08:44
autonomous technology and we're auditing
00:08:48
Tesla's tax returns. Oh, and by the way,
00:08:51
we we have evidence that he was carrying
00:08:53
elicit drug." I mean, this guy isn't
00:08:57
beyond No, but now everything will be
00:09:00
tainted, right? It's just it'll be so
00:09:02
obvious to people what he's doing. And
00:09:05
whether you like Elon or not, he still
00:09:06
has a lot of fans too, right now. His
00:09:09
numbers were declining be because of his
00:09:11
affiliation with Trump, right? His
00:09:14
numbers were going down and and his, you
00:09:16
know, he had just lost a lot of because
00:09:19
of the the the affiliation with Donald
00:09:22
Trump. But if he's against Donald Trump,
00:09:25
he'll get different fans, right? You
00:09:27
could see it's almost, oddly enough, it
00:09:29
is like a wrestling match, right? Um,
00:09:32
and this is how Trump conducts
00:09:34
everything. We're in the middle of a
00:09:35
wrestling match with one of those idiot
00:09:37
narratives that they have there, which
00:09:39
is they're throwing blows. They're
00:09:40
causing entertainment. But in this case,
00:09:43
I Elon can truly do a lot of damage to
00:09:46
this man. And especially those who are
00:09:48
so affusive about him like Mike Johnson
00:09:51
and others, right? He can pick them off
00:09:53
one at a time. And Trump has to protect,
00:09:57
right? In some ways, Trump can't go
00:09:59
nuclear on him in a similar way. Maybe
00:10:02
he can. I think this is such a tough one
00:10:04
to call. And I think if if our biases
00:10:08
are coming out here, I think what we're
00:10:10
discovering is you hate Trump more than
00:10:12
Musk and I hate Musk more than Trump.
00:10:14
No, no, no. I just think he's
00:10:17
unexpected, right? And so he's a wild
00:10:21
card. I don't I think he's Listen, I
00:10:23
would do an interview with him in a five
00:10:25
seconds to talk about this, but I think
00:10:27
that he he is he's Trump is somewhat
00:10:32
reliably corrupt the way he is. Trump,
00:10:34
you never know what Elon's going to do.
00:10:36
You just don't. But I I I read it as
00:10:39
this is peak Musk cuz what I just keep
00:10:41
coming back to, I think
00:10:44
Musk lately looks like an out of [ __ ]
00:10:47
control drug addict. I I all semblance
00:10:50
of sense, reason, self-control seem to
00:10:53
have literally I just think the guy's
00:10:56
totally come off the rails. But the
00:10:58
really the one big takeaway here, Cara,
00:11:00
is it's just so obvious that women are
00:11:02
just too emotional to hold this much
00:11:04
power. That a woman is just too
00:11:07
emotional to be president. I mean, they
00:11:10
menrate, they have hormones, they're
00:11:11
just too emotional.
00:11:14
It is the first breakup of Pride Month.
00:11:16
Um, what what does it mean for Doge
00:11:19
though? Like now what's going to happen
00:11:20
to Doge? And those staffers, I think
00:11:21
there's like 90 of them are they got to
00:11:24
go. They got to get rid of them so they
00:11:25
don't do any because they're out.
00:11:26
They're out because they're worried
00:11:27
they're more Elon loyal and they're
00:11:29
probably very scared. They're probably
00:11:30
in the midst of already trying to turn
00:11:31
off their access. I think the Doge cuts
00:11:34
will stick because I think Trump doesn't
00:11:36
care about you know what, nuclear
00:11:39
stockpile inspectors, I don't care. US
00:11:42
ID, I don't care. I don't I think that a
00:11:45
lot of those cuts will just stick and
00:11:46
they will but yeah the Doge the Doge you
00:11:50
know youth or children of the corn
00:11:52
they're absolutely out but I I
00:11:57
personally so I I I saw when I saw Musk
00:12:00
in that office with a black eye looking
00:12:03
around I thought he can't not be high
00:12:07
long enough to go to the Oval Office and
00:12:10
have the whole world
00:12:12
staring at him. So, I think this is just
00:12:16
I I I saw this and I've been so wrong
00:12:19
about this. I've I've predict this over
00:12:21
and over. I thought that that press
00:12:24
conference, that presser with Musk in
00:12:25
the office was peak Musk. I'm like, I
00:12:28
And you thought that was it? That was
00:12:29
the thing because Trump's now saying he
00:12:31
threw him out. But go ahead. Well, I I
00:12:33
just think the guy is the guy is a
00:12:35
rabbid. He's like he he's to see drug
00:12:39
addiction jump the sh like really go
00:12:42
whatever it is parabolic make the jump
00:12:44
to light speeded on in full display.
00:12:48
That's what I thought the story was. I
00:12:50
mean these people start fighting with
00:12:52
everybody, right? I don't that's an
00:12:54
onion headline. Elon Musk once again
00:12:57
gets along with nobody. You're right.
00:12:59
Trump joins. We are we are now on the
00:13:01
same list as Donald Trump, right, of
00:13:03
people Elon has picked fights with
00:13:05
essentially, which is weird when you
00:13:07
think about it. I got and I gotta I
00:13:09
gotta be honest, I wouldn't say I was
00:13:11
relieved, but I had several people reach
00:13:12
out to me, including friends who are
00:13:13
lawyers, and go, I think, you know, do
00:13:16
you have a [ __ ] ton of liability
00:13:17
insurance because I think your comments
00:13:18
in the last day, make it very likely
00:13:20
that someone uh from from US Universe
00:13:23
just decides to file a nuisance lawsuit
00:13:25
against you. You said, "I hope you're
00:13:26
ready. It's coming." Yeah. Let's let's
00:13:28
say what we're referencing. You gave an
00:13:30
incredible speech on um on Piers Morgan.
00:13:34
Let's play that and then talk about it
00:13:36
quickly. I think his legacy is not going
00:13:38
to be an EV or putting rockets into
00:13:41
space. I think it's going to be
00:13:42
unnecessary death, disease, and
00:13:45
disability of the world's most
00:13:47
vulnerable. That is not what it means to
00:13:49
be an innovator. It's not what it means
00:13:51
to be an American. It's not what it
00:13:52
means to be a man. All right. So, Scott,
00:13:55
I mean, that was something. I was so
00:13:56
proud of you. I have to say, I
00:13:58
appreciate that, Cara. Um, it's like
00:14:00
that's my man. There you go. Um, there's
00:14:02
my my lady. There's my lady. There's
00:14:05
there's my girl. You went way farther
00:14:07
than I go. I'll tell you that. I just
00:14:09
look at everything, not everything,
00:14:10
mostly everything through the lens right
00:14:11
now. I'm trying to raise two good men. I
00:14:13
I'm not I'm barreling towards the end.
00:14:15
And I'm a healthy person. So, I think
00:14:16
what is my purpose? My purpose is to
00:14:18
raise two loving, patriotic men. And I
00:14:21
I'm constantly thinking about role
00:14:23
models. The president and the world's
00:14:25
wealthiest man should be role models for
00:14:27
young men.
00:14:29
And the whole point of prosperity, if
00:14:30
you're the wealthiest man in the world,
00:14:32
it's pretty simple. What does that mean?
00:14:33
Prosperity should translate to
00:14:35
protection. And this guy right now, this
00:14:38
drug addict who says his daughter is
00:14:40
dead to him on a podcast and has cut aid
00:14:46
to the neediest people such that 1500
00:14:49
babies a day now are being born HIV
00:14:52
positive. Uh has two women concurrently
00:14:54
suing him for sole custody of their
00:14:55
child. This is exactly what it means to
00:14:57
not be a man. This is exactly what you
00:14:59
are not supposed to do when you
00:15:00
recognize the blessings of this type of
00:15:02
prosperity. And I think it's just
00:15:04
shameful. I I think it does tremendous
00:15:06
damage to the next generation of leaders
00:15:10
and tech leaders. All right. Let me ask
00:15:11
you to to depraved is a big word. That's
00:15:14
I I was really struck by that word by
00:15:16
the way. Um what happens now to his
00:15:19
companies because he said he was going
00:15:20
to be focusing on Tesla, focusing on
00:15:22
Starling. Now he'll have a very troubled
00:15:24
he's obviously not going to get all the
00:15:26
gimmies that he got. Although he did get
00:15:27
the regulators off his back, but maybe
00:15:29
not now. Maybe they'll be back on his
00:15:31
back. Um what if you were him? He
00:15:35
obviously is out of control. That's very
00:15:37
clear. But what would you do with each
00:15:39
of the what's going to happen to each of
00:15:41
these companies? And and specifically, I
00:15:43
mean XAI, obviously Twitter. Can I just
00:15:45
tell you I would now pay $8. Remember we
00:15:48
said there's no [ __ ] way. So be good
00:15:49
for Twitter. I got to say it's probably
00:15:51
good for Twitter in a really sick way.
00:15:54
But what um where do each of these
00:15:56
businesses go given his like clear off
00:15:59
the rails situation? I mean, no good
00:16:02
public no publicity is bad publicity.
00:16:04
What? No. U first off, Trump could cut
00:16:08
off all subsidies to Tesla almost
00:16:10
overnight. He could sick the DOJ on
00:16:12
them. He could start a series of federal
00:16:14
investigations. You could lean on
00:16:15
governments to say, "Do not if you
00:16:18
engage in stling contracts or or
00:16:22
um uh award contracts, whatever it is,
00:16:25
to Tesla, um I'm I'm going to be less
00:16:27
inclined to negotiate with you on
00:16:29
tariffs." This is an autocrat. And the
00:16:30
whole democracies are run on trust.
00:16:33
Autocracies are run on fear. And the way
00:16:36
an autocracy evolves is you punish your
00:16:39
enemies severely. You normalize violence
00:16:41
against them. you use the DOJ and the
00:16:44
power of the White House and to hurt
00:16:47
that company and those individuals. I
00:16:50
this is absolutely could be terrible for
00:16:52
Tesla. It could even be worse for
00:16:54
Starlink because all of a sudden
00:16:56
basically Trump could decide I don't
00:16:58
give a [ __ ] about um communications
00:17:01
technology on the battlefield in
00:17:02
Ukraine. I'm going to make it I'm going
00:17:04
to tell the joint chiefs and the
00:17:05
department of defense that they need to
00:17:07
seize Starlink and take control of it
00:17:10
because it's a security threat. Yeah.
00:17:12
And what about uh for XAI? Oh, because
00:17:15
now he's going to be left out of all
00:17:16
that. That that's like good day for Sam
00:17:18
Alman presumably. I think that in the
00:17:21
short
00:17:22
run, as you said, Twitter gets a lot
00:17:24
more attention. Everyone's going to be
00:17:26
tuning into what what he's saying. But
00:17:28
when
00:17:29
you when you Trump is going to basically
00:17:34
decide I need to beat this guy publicly
00:17:36
now that they've gone to war with each
00:17:38
other and Trump has nuclear weapons
00:17:42
literally. Not that he's going to use
00:17:44
them but he has the Department of
00:17:46
Justice and he's not afraid to um abuse
00:17:50
the law and habius corpus to go after
00:17:52
people. I mean, I love the idea of ICE
00:17:55
agents taking Elon Musk to South Africa,
00:17:58
and I don't think that's going to
00:17:59
happen, but it could. That was Bannon's.
00:18:00
That was Steve Bannon's thing. Yeah.
00:18:02
Well, you couldn't Trump is now Trump is
00:18:06
now an autocrat. He's now shown no
00:18:09
fidelity to the law or due process. He's
00:18:12
going after individuals. He's he's he's
00:18:15
normalizing violence. I I don't I
00:18:17
wouldn't put him past him. I wouldn't I
00:18:18
would imagine he's already in a war room
00:18:21
with his his attorney general Steven
00:18:23
Miller Steven Miller that I would love
00:18:26
if I could be anywhere like a little fly
00:18:28
it would be with between Steven and
00:18:29
Katie says Katie Miller works for Elon
00:18:32
right now the secretary of commerce and
00:18:34
just be saying come up with a list of 10
00:18:36
things to [ __ ] kick this guy in the
00:18:38
nut so hard he doesn't know what
00:18:39
happened. H I don't know, Scott. I'm I
00:18:43
got to say I think you're on You believe
00:18:44
team You believe you're betting on I'm
00:18:46
not team Elon because I think he's it's
00:18:49
going to end badly for him. I think he's
00:18:50
Howard Hughes. I'm sorry. I do. But this
00:18:53
is not good. Is likable. Yeah, I know
00:18:55
that's true. Um I think it's going to
00:18:58
This is bad for This is bad for both of
00:19:00
them. Bad. They look bad. Look, this is
00:19:03
this is when Iraq is in a war against
00:19:05
Iran. You're you're hoping the bullets
00:19:08
win.
00:19:09
This is, look, you're right. This makes
00:19:12
them both look just childish and stupid.
00:19:14
But if we're talking about who is
00:19:17
exposed to greater risk
00:19:19
here, President Trump has the CIA. I get
00:19:22
it. But I think he's now he's now
00:19:24
absolutely going to lose control of
00:19:26
Congress. Absolutely. No question. Now,
00:19:28
what's the Democrats going to do? Just
00:19:30
sit back and watch, I suspect, for a
00:19:32
minute. just like just so today I
00:19:35
addressed the Democratic young young
00:19:38
young caucus which is people under the
00:19:40
age of 140 actually it's under the age
00:19:43
of 50 a really exciting meeting I got to
00:19:45
meet Representative Crockett and some
00:19:47
other people and I was saying they asked
00:19:49
me for a bunch of ideas and I said right
00:19:50
away you need to come up with an
00:19:52
alternative tax bill that positions you
00:19:54
as the adults in the room and I came up
00:19:56
with a bunch of ideas. I immediately
00:19:57
reached out to the person who organizes
00:19:59
this caucus and I said, "I I draw the
00:20:02
comment based on what's happened today.
00:20:04
Do abso fuckingutely nothing. Do not say
00:20:06
a word. Do not do anything. You do not
00:20:09
get in the way of your enemy shooting
00:20:13
themselves in the foot." I'm like, "Let
00:20:15
the let this control the news cycle.
00:20:17
Don't do anything. Don't say anything.
00:20:20
Don't do anything. Let the entire media
00:20:23
world focus on this fight, which they
00:20:25
will." And it is. This is a distraction,
00:20:26
but what a fantastic. Anyway, we're
00:20:28
having a good day here over at Pivot. Oh
00:20:30
my god. Oh my god. Let's just liberate.
00:20:33
Literally, we shouldn't be like this,
00:20:36
but we do. We're Oh my god. This is What
00:20:38
is this? Our super. Usually, usually in
00:20:40
a half hour from now, we have a half
00:20:41
bottle drink of Jack and a condom
00:20:43
hanging out of my ass. This is about to
00:20:44
be a good good time, Cara. Oh my god.
00:20:48
This is about to be a good good time.
00:20:50
Yep. Anyway, call me Elon. I'm here for
00:20:53
you. I'm here for you. I'm a shoulder to
00:20:55
cry on. SpaceX. So good. Happy to do an
00:20:58
interview. So good. I was going to watch
00:21:00
Friends and Neighbors tomorrow. No way.
00:21:02
I'm watching this. Anyway, uh Scott,
00:21:05
let's go on a quick break. There's a lot
00:21:06
more to get to, but before we do, I just
00:21:08
want to remind our lovely listeners that
00:21:09
you can also watch us on YouTube. The
00:21:11
link is in our show notes. If you're
00:21:12
already watching, don't forget to like
00:21:14
and subscribe. Okay, Scott, when we come
00:21:16
back, how Trump's grudges, and this is
00:21:18
the biggest one, are informing his
00:21:19
latest executive orders. And Elon,
00:21:22
there's an executive order coming your
00:21:23
way probably tomorrow. Scott, we're
00:21:25
back. Perhaps in an attempt to steer the
00:21:28
conversation away from Elon Musk.
00:21:29
President Trump issued a series of
00:21:31
executive orders on Wednesday night.
00:21:33
This is how he governs by by fiat or
00:21:35
tries to. These include a new travel ban
00:21:38
that restricts the entry of people into
00:21:40
the US from more than a dozen countries,
00:21:42
mostly from the Middle East and Africa.
00:21:45
An investigation into uh former
00:21:47
President Joe Biden and his aids. Trump
00:21:49
is having the White House counsel and
00:21:51
Attorney General Pambani examine whether
00:21:53
some of President uh present President
00:21:55
Biden's presidential actions were
00:21:57
legally invalid, claiming AIDS acted
00:21:59
without his knowledge. Biden has called
00:22:01
this ridiculous and false. An order
00:22:03
blocking Harvard's international
00:22:05
students from entering the country.
00:22:07
Harvard called this illegal, by the way.
00:22:09
Trump also called on Secretary of State
00:22:10
Marco Rubio uh to begin revoking visas
00:22:13
of current foreign students in the at
00:22:15
the university. I mean, he just can't
00:22:18
stop. He He cannot stop these things.
00:22:21
Um, and when it comes to tariffs,
00:22:22
President Trump is still perfecting the
00:22:24
art of the deal with China's President
00:22:25
Xi. Trump posted on True Social early
00:22:28
this week that she is quote, "very tough
00:22:30
and extremely hard to make a a deal
00:22:33
with." Chinese state media reported on
00:22:35
Thursday that the two leaders finally
00:22:36
had their long-awaited phone chat, a
00:22:38
call initiated by Trump. This is the
00:22:40
first known formal contact between the
00:22:42
two since Trump's inauguration. Trump
00:22:44
has reportedly been obsessed with this
00:22:47
she call according to Politico,
00:22:48
convinced he can hash things out. Um,
00:22:51
China has leverage. It halted uh exports
00:22:54
of rare earth magnets in April as the
00:22:56
trade war was escalating. This is really
00:22:58
problematic. US and European automakers
00:23:01
uh say they're running out of these
00:23:02
magnets which are needed for EV motors,
00:23:04
windshield wipers, brake sensors, and
00:23:06
more. Some companies are considering
00:23:08
shifting production to China to avoid
00:23:10
export restrictions. Building electric
00:23:12
motors there or shipping US-made motors
00:23:14
to China to install these madness. Of
00:23:16
course, it's against the goal of
00:23:18
bringing uh manufacturing back to the
00:23:20
US. The opposite might happen. So, talk
00:23:23
a little bit about these these executive
00:23:24
orders first and then I think China's
00:23:27
winning
00:23:27
this. Oh god, Trump is so incompetent. I
00:23:30
can't even with with the Chinese. Um,
00:23:33
but uh let's talk about these orders cuz
00:23:35
this is what he does when he feels out
00:23:37
of control presumably. Yeah. I don't I I
00:23:40
I feel as if you have someone who walks
00:23:43
up to a poker table, goes all in, and
00:23:45
then negotiates and then folds before
00:23:47
anyone else responds. And I wonder if I
00:23:51
I'm you know, I believe a lot of this
00:23:53
his his um policies on immigration are
00:23:57
still his kind of number one policy. So
00:24:00
I think he keeps saying let's push it
00:24:02
further and further because people seem
00:24:04
to respond, you know, negatively, but
00:24:07
it's still his kind of number one most
00:24:09
approved approach. And these images of
00:24:12
ICE rounding up people are shocking, but
00:24:15
I think there's a certain element of his
00:24:17
his base that actually thinks finally
00:24:19
we're getting serious about this. Uh I I
00:24:22
agree with you. I think China holds all
00:24:24
the cards here because while the tariffs
00:24:27
they've done math but what they haven't
00:24:29
calculated was what does the math
00:24:31
actually mean on the other side of the
00:24:32
equation and that is while we can
00:24:34
probably heard ch the Chinese economy
00:24:36
more than ours China is an export
00:24:38
economy it doesn't have the same level
00:24:39
of internal consumption that we have
00:24:42
only 17% of our GDP is based on exports
00:24:45
so we're actually quite a
00:24:46
self-sufficient society despite all the
00:24:49
calls that you know we need to reshore
00:24:50
everything we're actually more
00:24:51
self-sufficient
00:24:53
across energy even manufacturing than
00:24:55
people believe the but what what they
00:24:59
failed to take into account is our pain
00:25:02
thresholds and that is unless you're
00:25:04
going to so for example let's look at
00:25:06
Europe Europe is ringing its hands over
00:25:09
what to do with Ukraine I mean they they
00:25:11
they're supportive of the Ukrainian army
00:25:14
uh they've given money they've actually
00:25:15
given more money than us but they would
00:25:17
never I don't think they would consider
00:25:19
putting a boot on the ground meanwhile
00:25:22
Putin continues to call up more people
00:25:23
despite coming up on a million young men
00:25:26
either killed or wounded. I mean, so
00:25:29
when you're calculating the calculus,
00:25:31
you would think, well, okay, the EU has
00:25:34
a $19 trillion economy. The Russian
00:25:36
economy is 2 trillion. It has triple the
00:25:39
population. We should be able to kick
00:25:40
their ass in a war. But they're not
00:25:42
taking into account the pain thresholds
00:25:45
of the respective parties. And that's
00:25:47
what I think we're missing or Trump is
00:25:48
missing with respect to negotiating with
00:25:50
she. She doesn't She's not afraid to
00:25:53
have to put three, five, 10 million
00:25:56
Chinese out of work. He's not afraid.
00:25:59
They're We let our thoroughbreds run. We
00:26:02
are so obsessed with the stock market
00:26:03
and any hit to prosperity. We're worried
00:26:05
that Americans are going to revolt.
00:26:08
She's not afraid to put companies out of
00:26:10
business, even if it means a decline or
00:26:12
a massive loss in capital. So, I think
00:26:14
he's vastly
00:26:16
underestimated. I The bottom line is I
00:26:18
just don't think she scares this easily.
00:26:21
And I think they're having a lot of
00:26:22
productive conversations with nations
00:26:24
and trade agreements that they didn't
00:26:26
think were possible just a hundred days
00:26:27
ago. So I agree with you. I think she
00:26:29
has all the cards here. He does. I mean,
00:26:31
Trump is so badly playing this. And one
00:26:33
of the these orders, and I know you have
00:26:35
talked about them as a a distraction,
00:26:37
whether it's the Biden one or the travel
00:26:39
bans or the students blocking Harvard's
00:26:42
international students entering the
00:26:43
country, they still create all kinds of
00:26:46
havoc in terms of whatever it happens.
00:26:48
like even if ultimately they get pushed
00:26:50
back, you have to spend time getting a
00:26:52
lawyer, you have to spend time doing the
00:26:54
fight, you have to spend time. So, I
00:26:56
don't think they're just a distraction.
00:26:58
They're meant to to, you know, they're
00:27:00
like flashbombs, you know, like you're
00:27:02
you can't see for a minute. And they do
00:27:05
have real world impact. And that's the
00:27:07
point of them is to do that even if they
00:27:09
get overturned cuz maybe 20 of them,
00:27:12
they do 20 and 17 get overturned, but
00:27:15
three don't, right? And that's what
00:27:17
they're doing here. Um, I do think it
00:27:19
matters that they're creating a
00:27:21
situation putting Harvard on its back
00:27:23
heel almost constantly. Even if in the
00:27:25
end Harvard will win, they'll they'll
00:27:27
win with a lot of damage. Um, same thing
00:27:30
with all these other things. And again,
00:27:32
as linking to China, it gives China an
00:27:34
advantage. It gives China gives all our
00:27:36
enemies an advantage for us to be both
00:27:39
petty and bullying when we don't have
00:27:42
the cards, right? It just doesn't. We
00:27:44
just don't have the cards here. you're
00:27:46
playing poker, I suppose. Um, but I
00:27:48
think they have, especially with the
00:27:50
things they have like magnets,
00:27:52
manufacturing, everything else. This is
00:27:55
what companies will do. They will do
00:27:56
what it takes to create economic benefit
00:27:59
for themselves. And if that means uh
00:28:02
shifting to production in China, that's
00:28:04
exactly what they'll do. So, the
00:28:05
opposite of what Trump wanted. Well, to
00:28:07
be fair, I think Trump's initial
00:28:09
instincts around a real trade asymmetry
00:28:12
with China was was correct. there the
00:28:15
the IP flow into China is one way. They
00:28:18
take Tesla and uh Apple technology and
00:28:21
upskilling and then they don't let it
00:28:23
leave and there's no they they let their
00:28:26
media companies into the US but they
00:28:28
don't let ours in. So the IP flow is one
00:28:30
way. There's a trade. There's real valid
00:28:33
concerns. But to go to the Norm McDonald
00:28:35
joke, the late comedian, he said he had
00:28:38
this great bid on I don't know if you
00:28:40
are history buffs, but uh if you've
00:28:42
heard of this country called Germany,
00:28:44
they decided twice last century to
00:28:47
declare war on the world.
00:28:51
And quite frank at a very basic level
00:28:53
that's why Hitler lost was he was
00:28:57
absolutely blitzkrieg basically took
00:28:59
over France in two weeks conquered most
00:29:01
of Europe in several months was
00:29:03
threatening to take over Britain wanted
00:29:05
to negotiate with Chamberlain said I'll
00:29:07
let you keep the empire I want Europe
00:29:09
then knows who knows what would have
00:29:11
happened but his mistake was he decided
00:29:13
to declare war on Russia and if you
00:29:18
wanted to isolate China and have really
00:29:21
strong a really strong hand to negotiate
00:29:23
better terms on IP where they steal it
00:29:26
and sell it back to us more
00:29:27
inexpensively whatever it might be
00:29:29
wouldn't you want to sign up the EU and
00:29:31
Latin America or would you declare war
00:29:34
on EU and Latin America at the same time
00:29:39
thereby creating we were we were allies
00:29:42
with Russia because Germany was so
00:29:45
aggressive he has turned our strongest
00:29:48
allies into quite quite frankly
00:29:50
sympathetic to China. I had dinner I had
00:29:53
dinner with the I had dinner with the
00:29:55
CEO of Alibaba, a wonderful guy. He was
00:29:58
in Europe roaming around talking to
00:30:00
European companies about them using the
00:30:02
Baba cloud because for the first time AW
00:30:05
people are having concerns about using
00:30:07
European companies are having concerns
00:30:09
about using Azure or
00:30:11
AWS. So this is just the the worst thing
00:30:16
the it is terrible to be fighting with
00:30:18
your allies. But what's worse is to be
00:30:21
fighting without your allies. Yeah. Or
00:30:24
also damaging the most the strongest
00:30:27
parts of this country. Not just
00:30:28
attacking allies, attacking things in
00:30:31
this country, whether it's Harvard or
00:30:33
scientists. It's a constant attack on
00:30:36
people our strongest members right of of
00:30:38
our country and what we can do.
00:30:40
Immigrants who bring innovation.
00:30:42
universities who may have to have reform
00:30:44
but not from the government. They should
00:30:46
not this way. Um you know there's this
00:30:49
idea that I keep thinking about is a lot
00:30:51
of the stuff Trump is talking about like
00:30:53
the the problem with trade with China or
00:30:56
too much wokeness or whatever it just
00:30:58
pick whatever you want. Everyone I know
00:31:01
is like could could agree with some of
00:31:03
the direction but every single person
00:31:05
including a lot of Trump supporters are
00:31:07
like yeah but not this. It's like you're
00:31:09
seeing so many interviews with Trump
00:31:10
people like I didn't think he'd you know
00:31:12
this this is sort of the leopard ate my
00:31:14
face idea. Um, but like not like this,
00:31:17
not this, not this. And it just is it's
00:31:20
overkill. And the executive orders are
00:31:22
the the expression of that. These crazy
00:31:24
[ __ ] executive. He looks like such a
00:31:26
chump by doing these. But at the same
00:31:28
time, you know, even though he accuses
00:31:31
Elon of being sort of the toddler. I
00:31:32
think that's what they're doing. He's
00:31:34
the toddler. He's the actual toddler.
00:31:36
Elon's just one of the toddlers running
00:31:38
around the White House. But this is what
00:31:40
he's doing. Just making a mess. And then
00:31:43
Yeah.
00:31:44
to no strategic value. Just to go to
00:31:48
cosplay Henry Kissinger here and I won't
00:31:50
even say Marco Rubio, but a real
00:31:52
secretary of state in terms of rail
00:31:55
politic. You know, they're going after
00:31:57
Harvard under the oposis and this is
00:32:00
there's never been a flag this false of
00:32:02
anti-semitism.
00:32:03
And I believe, for example, if you
00:32:05
really cared about, say, I won't even
00:32:08
call it anti-semitism, but say you cared
00:32:09
about the war in the Middle East, the
00:32:12
the the the Israeli Gaza conflict, what
00:32:14
whatever you want to call it. I don't
00:32:16
believe the key is Israel or Hamas. I
00:32:20
believe the key is Qatar. I think if you
00:32:23
wanted those hostages released and you
00:32:25
wanted some path to uh uh sustainable
00:32:28
peace, you would put massive pressure on
00:32:31
Qatar who has been funding the tunnels
00:32:34
and the bombs and providing safe haven
00:32:38
for the senior leader leadership of
00:32:40
Hamas. I believe that's the key. And let
00:32:42
me ask you this. Do you think do you
00:32:44
think Trump is really going to bring
00:32:46
about pressure and is really concerned
00:32:50
uh with a country that he just accepted
00:32:52
a $400 million plane from? So, and then
00:32:56
the notion that they they give a [ __ ]
00:32:58
about anti-semitism at Harvard. There
00:33:01
have been three very scary anti-semitic
00:33:03
attacks. Two young, lovely, engaged
00:33:05
people who were working at the embassy
00:33:07
were shot down and murdered. Governor
00:33:11
Shapiro, who his house, someone tried to
00:33:13
burn down his house um who was blatantly
00:33:17
anti-semitic. And there was an attack in
00:33:19
Boulder, Colorado, where an Egyptian man
00:33:21
used a makeshift flamethrower and
00:33:22
Molotov cocktails to attack a group u
00:33:25
participating in a solidarity walk for
00:33:27
the hostages in Gaza. Has the president
00:33:29
referenced any of those things? No. No.
00:33:32
But quote unquote, he needs to go after
00:33:35
anti-semitism at these universities.
00:33:37
It's all nonsense. It's all absolutely
00:33:39
And we've discussed the we've discussed
00:33:41
the just the economics here. And just
00:33:44
think about it as an export. The export
00:33:46
of education, letting foreign students
00:33:48
into our universities is a bigger
00:33:49
business for us than us selling our
00:33:51
movies and TV shows overseas.
00:33:54
So this is all I it's just such um I I'm
00:33:59
just trying to think how you could and
00:34:01
there's a certain brilliance to this if
00:34:04
you thought how do I reduce our
00:34:06
prosperity as elegantly and as
00:34:08
efficiently as possible and get some for
00:34:10
myself and then be corrupt at the same
00:34:12
time in some ways. I have to say I kind
00:34:15
of like even though Elon's a heinous
00:34:17
piece of [ __ ] as you noticed um I can
00:34:20
see possibly a penny dropping with him
00:34:23
with this bill. I think it is totally
00:34:25
self-interested. At the same time he can
00:34:28
do math, right? Like he can't he can't
00:34:31
even put up with this, right? Like he
00:34:33
he's like no. Um, I mean know ultimately
00:34:38
a lot of business people in this country
00:34:40
even if you're as unhinged as Elon are
00:34:43
are globalists, right? Like if you want
00:34:45
to use that term, even though it's has
00:34:47
negative connotations, they they live in
00:34:50
a global world, these our companies in
00:34:53
the United States and Trump is
00:34:55
systematically ruining their chances
00:34:57
across. Anyway, we have to go on a quick
00:34:59
break. When we come back, the next name
00:35:01
on Trump's naughty list, Jerome Powell.
00:35:04
Scott, we're back with more news.
00:35:05
President Trump is lashing out at Fed
00:35:07
Chair Jerome Powell, urging him to cut
00:35:08
interest rates following the release of
00:35:10
the ADP jobs reports. The report shows
00:35:13
private payrolls ticking up by only
00:35:14
37,000 when the Dow Jones forecasted
00:35:17
110,000. The president posted on True
00:35:19
Social, calling the Fed share too late,
00:35:21
Powell, and unbelievable. Trump and
00:35:23
Powell met at the White House last week,
00:35:25
but the conversation was uh was
00:35:27
reportedly confrontational. You think he
00:35:30
wanted to push him out? I he may try to
00:35:32
do that. I don't think he's allowed
00:35:34
again again create chaos, try to do
00:35:36
something that's potentially illegal,
00:35:38
but who cares? How do you imagine this
00:35:41
is going to end? He's going to try to
00:35:42
push him out or that maybe he can't
00:35:44
sustain the energy to do so and he'll
00:35:46
move on to his next ridiculous executive
00:35:48
order. Yeah, I don't think he can. I
00:35:50
don't think Chairman Pal Chair Pal
00:35:53
stared America in the face. He stared uh
00:35:56
senators on the right side and on the
00:35:59
left side. everyone from Elizabeth
00:36:00
Warren to Ted Cruz who were calling for
00:36:02
interest rate cuts and said no inflation
00:36:05
inflation is is the enemy here and we
00:36:08
are going to fight inflation and he
00:36:10
tamped down inflation by raising
00:36:12
interest rates at the greatest
00:36:13
escalation over a 15month period in
00:36:15
history and there was huge he does not
00:36:18
get nearly the credit he deserves for
00:36:20
the for the unfolding crisis that never
00:36:23
unfolded because he took a leadership
00:36:26
position. The OECD has cut its growth
00:36:29
forecast for the US from 3.2% to 1.6.
00:36:32
They have cut that in half. And these
00:36:34
numbers sound small, but when you go
00:36:36
from 3.2% to 1.6 on a 27 trillion
00:36:40
economy, you're talking about a loss of
00:36:42
growth of $400 billion in business. That
00:36:45
is real cabbage. And they cited it was
00:36:48
very simple. it's insecurity over
00:36:50
tariffs and global trade and a and um a
00:36:54
weakened or uncertain immigration
00:36:56
policy. So we have growth coming down
00:36:58
and they're also predicting that
00:37:00
inflation is beginning to spike. That is
00:37:03
really if you want to see I don't even
00:37:07
like to use the word impeach because
00:37:08
that's when people accuse uh the left
00:37:11
fairly of politicizing certain things
00:37:13
that shouldn't be politicized.
00:37:16
But if you could imagine a scenario
00:37:18
where Trump was impeached, I don't think
00:37:19
it would be corruption, I would think if
00:37:21
all of a sudden, and there's a scenario
00:37:24
here where inflation goes rampant,
00:37:27
absolutely rampant. And PAL is just not
00:37:29
going to participate in that. And and
00:37:32
you're already seeing an uptick in
00:37:34
inflation. You're seeing some job
00:37:35
destruction, although I don't know if
00:37:37
that's at the hands of AI. I think it's
00:37:38
too early to tell what's going on. If
00:37:41
you look at the market right now, to be
00:37:43
fair, and I've been surprised by this,
00:37:45
the market is only about 3% off of
00:37:47
all-time highs. It's had one of its best
00:37:48
Mays in the last several years. Now, a
00:37:51
few things are going on. One, either the
00:37:55
economy has decided or the market has
00:37:56
decided, you know, Trump's policies are
00:37:59
not that bad. Maybe maybe they're not as
00:38:01
bad as everybody says, or people have
00:38:05
decided he's not serious. None of this
00:38:07
is going to hold. the courts are going
00:38:09
to swap slap all of this away. It's all
00:38:11
a giant [ __ ] and distraction and he
00:38:13
always chickens out. Or they've said,
00:38:16
you know what, at the end of the day,
00:38:17
the headline news around the [ __ ] going
00:38:18
on at a government level isn't as
00:38:21
important as we think. That the American
00:38:23
economy is so incredible, it just kind
00:38:25
of grinds on. People are using learning
00:38:28
how to use AI. They're still going to
00:38:30
the grocery store. They're still taking
00:38:32
vacations. Companies are still
00:38:34
innovating. They're still selling.
00:38:35
People are buying. People are still
00:38:37
hiring. Because if you look at the
00:38:38
economic data and you look at the market
00:38:40
right now, you can cherrypick pieces of
00:38:43
data that guys like me who are
00:38:45
catastrophists like to call on, but I've
00:38:48
actually been shocked at how resilient
00:38:49
the economy is right now. But chairman
00:38:51
pal is not going to be muscled around by
00:38:53
anybody. Not going to be muscled around.
00:38:56
No, he's not. He's Trump might try it
00:38:58
when he get if he gets desperate enough.
00:38:59
We'll see. I mean, he he can only put
00:39:01
out so many fires. He he does have to
00:39:03
settle with Musk and hope that he calms
00:39:05
down because if he's fighting with this
00:39:07
person, this person, this person, this
00:39:09
person, it's really going to start to
00:39:10
mount as chaos, you know, sort of a
00:39:12
chaos monkey. Um, the California State
00:39:15
Senate is looking into Paramount's
00:39:17
reported settlement offer to President
00:39:18
Trump over his lawsuit alleging mental
00:39:20
anguish from the editing of a 60 Minutes
00:39:22
interview uh with Kla Harris. Um,
00:39:25
Paramount report.
00:39:29
Oh my god. Anyway, whatever. They can
00:39:31
try it. Paramount reportedly offered
00:39:33
Trump a $15 million settlement, which
00:39:35
the president did not think was enough.
00:39:36
California Democrats expressed concern
00:39:38
that the offer, which comes as the
00:39:39
company hopes for a merger approval from
00:39:41
the administration, raises bribery
00:39:43
questions. A letter sent to former news
00:39:46
uh CBS News officials also mentions
00:39:48
concern about the implications for
00:39:49
journalism and integrity of corporate
00:39:51
governance. Former 60 Minutes EP and the
00:39:53
former CEO of CBS News have invited to
00:39:56
testify voluntary. They left after not
00:39:59
agreeing with Sher Redstone about what
00:40:01
she was doing. Um, uh, it's interesting,
00:40:04
she's in a real jam. Um, uh, as a quick
00:40:07
note, just another media company is in a
00:40:10
real jam. Over at Warner Brothers
00:40:11
Discovery, shareholders rejected a pay
00:40:13
package for CEO David Zazoff that would
00:40:15
have given him a 4% raise, upping his
00:40:17
pay to $51.9 million. Warner Brothers
00:40:20
Discovery has seen its revenue decline
00:40:22
10% in the last year, and his stock is
00:40:23
quite off from when the merger happened.
00:40:26
But talk a little bit about this case
00:40:27
cuz I think this is really cuz they are
00:40:29
in a bind because if they do this
00:40:32
settlement they're going to get bribery
00:40:33
allegations eventually. I mean the whole
00:40:35
thing and and of course the Trump
00:40:37
administration the coin op Trump
00:40:39
administration would like some vague for
00:40:42
for whatever in whatever way it happens
00:40:44
to be for approving this. um they've
00:40:47
completely corrupted the process even
00:40:49
you know the whole process of of of
00:40:51
merger approval and they have willing um
00:40:54
supplicants at the FDC um and the FCC to
00:40:58
do this. Well, I first off regarding
00:41:02
Trump's claimed anguish and mental
00:41:04
health struggles, I don't think that's
00:41:05
anything to joke about. And my advice
00:41:06
for him is the way I approach mental
00:41:09
health is the same way I approach sex
00:41:11
and that is I always come first.
00:41:15
He's back. Take that. Take that, Mr.
00:41:18
Wonderful. Why didn't you tell that joke
00:41:19
on Fierce Market? What What do you think
00:41:22
of this? Is a really interesting problem
00:41:23
for this company. This perfectly
00:41:25
embodies the the fulcrum or the tension
00:41:28
that is happening across corporate
00:41:30
America right now. And that is the
00:41:32
easiest thing to do is to stay out of
00:41:34
his crosshairs and not be the subject of
00:41:37
some crazy punitive
00:41:39
uh one-off tariff that takes your stock
00:41:42
down. And your shareholders and your
00:41:45
board say, "Boss, couldn't you just kept
00:41:46
quiet or stayed out of his way?" And
00:41:49
Sherry is sitting on a melting ice cube.
00:41:51
She was worth 20 billion two years ago.
00:41:53
Last year she was worth 10 billion. Now
00:41:55
she's worth four billion. And if she
00:41:57
doesn't sell this thing to some
00:41:58
billionaire who wants to go to the
00:41:59
Academy Awards soon, she's going to be
00:42:01
worth two billion. So her attitude is
00:42:04
fine, 60 Minutes. It's great to be a
00:42:06
[ __ ] purist, but I don't want to be
00:42:08
the one that that turned that took my
00:42:11
father's legacy and turned it from 20
00:42:14
billion into two to one. You know, she
00:42:17
just wants her money. So, paying this
00:42:19
guy $10
00:42:20
million, uh, the idea of the lack of
00:42:23
integrity or fidelity to journalistic or
00:42:26
first amendment clauses, she's like, you
00:42:28
know, well, it sucks to be a grown-up.
00:42:29
Money is more important to me. That's
00:42:31
the same calculus that Bob Iger made.
00:42:33
That's the same calculus that Paul Weiss
00:42:36
made when they decided to bend a knee
00:42:39
and do pro bono work for Trump related
00:42:42
causes. And unfortunately, the line of
00:42:46
people waiting to uh ignore the any
00:42:50
fidelity to American values or the
00:42:52
Constitution or the rights of free
00:42:53
speech, the line of people in the
00:42:55
Fortune 500 that is willing um to enter
00:42:59
that room. There is no line. No one's
00:43:01
done it. I can't think of anyone. I want
00:43:04
to salute Harvard, President Garber, who
00:43:07
stood up and said, "No, Colombia tried
00:43:09
to deal with him. Columbia's gotten a
00:43:11
lot of [ __ ] for it. But the reality is
00:43:13
Colombia thought they could say, "Okay,
00:43:15
maybe we can make some uh consolations
00:43:18
here and move on." And then they came
00:43:20
back with sort of this mind control and
00:43:22
thought control and they've given up.
00:43:24
Harvard didn't even go there. Harvard
00:43:26
saying no the reason we have so much
00:43:28
money also Harvard has a lot of powerful
00:43:30
people but the list the the the list of
00:43:33
the names of corporate CEOs who have
00:43:36
just overtly explicitly stood up and
00:43:39
said no there is no one I mean maybe the
00:43:43
guy at maybe the guy at Costco who
00:43:46
talked about DEI but no one has stood up
00:43:48
and said what's going on here is
00:43:50
anti-American and their their
00:43:53
shareholder fiduciary ad kicks in and
00:43:56
goes, "Just cut him a check for 10
00:43:58
million and sell this bag of [ __ ] called
00:44:00
Paramount that's declining every [ __ ]
00:44:02
day." Your thoughts? I think that that I
00:44:06
think she's doing untold damage to the
00:44:08
to the brand. Whatever's left of it,
00:44:10
right? I I think it just she's literally
00:44:13
selling the seed corn and I don't know
00:44:16
if she has a choice, but on the other
00:44:17
end, she's going to get a bribery. Um
00:44:20
eventually the Democrats will be back in
00:44:22
power and she will face that, right? And
00:44:24
I don't think she's going to get out of
00:44:25
this. I think she's in a jam of beyond
00:44:28
jams. So whatever choice she makes is a
00:44:31
bad one. Like every single choice. And
00:44:33
what's interesting is the new owners, if
00:44:35
they really think this is a good idea, I
00:44:37
can't imagine um they're going to be
00:44:39
they're sort of they have a tainted
00:44:41
fruit, right? They have a a poison fruit
00:44:44
here because all these reporters are
00:44:46
going to be now more difficult than
00:44:48
ever. You have a brand. Maybe that brand
00:44:50
should end. I don't know if 60 Minutes
00:44:51
should end. It's that's up to their
00:44:53
owners. Um, but they certainly are
00:44:56
trading away any kind of um,
00:44:59
credibility. I just there's no good
00:45:00
answer here for these people. I mean,
00:45:02
and you're right, this is it doesn't
00:45:04
matter really because these these these
00:45:06
media companies are worth less and less
00:45:08
every year unless they make significant
00:45:11
changes. Um, so I guess a new owner
00:45:13
might try something fresh, the new
00:45:15
owners with lots of money. Um, so any
00:45:18
way you get there is a good way. Um, but
00:45:20
it definitely is is disappointing on
00:45:22
every level. Um, and as to Warner
00:45:24
Brothers Discovery, it's just not, you
00:45:27
know, he's making a lot of money and the
00:45:28
company's still struggling to figure out
00:45:31
which way to go. I would assume a lot of
00:45:32
mergers here presumably, correct? I
00:45:35
mean, I don't know. Oh, there's got to
00:45:36
be huge consolidation. And I said Warner
00:45:38
Brothers board is the worst board in
00:45:40
America. They've managed to destroy so
00:45:42
two-thirds of shareholder value. uh
00:45:44
their debt just got downgraded to junk
00:45:46
and yet they've the compensation
00:45:48
committee at this board has decided to
00:45:50
pay David Zazov a third of a billion
00:45:51
dollars. I mean that's just Well,
00:45:53
they're doing that because it's based on
00:45:54
the cutting of the debt, right? Is that
00:45:56
correct? That's why I'm sure that's how
00:45:58
they rationalized it. But if No, it is.
00:46:00
That's I mean, Bill Cohen wrote a good
00:46:01
piece about Okay, but fine. And the tail
00:46:05
will wag the dog here. Uh if that's the
00:46:09
case, they should fire the guy because
00:46:11
it just is an affront to shareholders to
00:46:14
be taking uh to be paying someone a
00:46:16
third of a billion dollars when
00:46:18
shareholders have lost twothirds of
00:46:20
their value. I I don't care what your
00:46:22
compensation package was. You either
00:46:24
say, "Boss, we need to revisit your
00:46:25
compensation package or we're going to
00:46:27
have to make a change in leadership."
00:46:29
and the but just going back to Sher
00:46:31
Redstone I don't I and I'm not a lawyer
00:46:34
but I don't see how she can be found
00:46:36
guilty of saying look the president
00:46:39
wanted we settle cases out of court all
00:46:43
the time because we decide that they're
00:46:45
a nuisance and it's worth it just to
00:46:47
move on with our business and that's
00:46:48
what we did here. So I think some of
00:46:51
this notion that it's a quote unquote
00:46:52
bribe is a little bit of left-wing
00:46:54
posturing. I don't think there's a legal
00:46:56
case against her. CEOs CEOs pay off
00:47:01
lawsuits all the time to just move on.
00:47:04
But going back um Well, can I just make
00:47:06
a point on that? They're still going to
00:47:07
come at her. They're going to still the
00:47:09
bribery thing, whether it sticks or not,
00:47:11
they're going to go for it. When you say
00:47:12
they, who do you mean? Who the the
00:47:14
California or the Democrats or whatever,
00:47:16
I think she's not she's going to be in
00:47:18
litigation for a very long time. I think
00:47:20
they'll move on to bigger fish to fry.
00:47:22
Really interesting. Okay. I mean, I
00:47:24
don't What do you do you think there's
00:47:25
really a case here? They settle suits
00:47:27
all the time. Uh, I guess this one's
00:47:29
particularly ridiculous. Like, it's
00:47:31
particularly like, you know, they're all
00:47:33
somewhat ridiculous, but I suspect the
00:47:35
ABC one there was probably emails. There
00:47:37
was probably embarrassments. In this
00:47:39
case, it's just ridiculous. And with the
00:47:41
with these executives quitting, it's
00:47:43
just not a good look. The whole thing is
00:47:45
it's just it brings down a brand
00:47:47
unnecessarily. And I get they have to
00:47:49
make weird contortions because of Trump,
00:47:51
but they're looking particularly bad.
00:47:53
and the way they're behaving. Um, it
00:47:55
seems but if you look at all the points
00:47:56
of light here or the path to an
00:47:59
autotocracy or fascism or a kleptocracy,
00:48:02
pick your favorite, you know, oppressive
00:48:05
form of government. It's try and put a
00:48:07
chill on the press right now. That's
00:48:09
clear. And then the most recent one,
00:48:12
let's let's try and normalize political
00:48:13
violence against our adversaries. I
00:48:14
don't know if you saw most recently, but
00:48:16
Trump is talking about pardoning
00:48:18
pardoning the people who planned plotted
00:48:20
the kidnap kidnapping of Governor
00:48:21
Whitmer. And let's just remind people
00:48:24
these quote unquote people he who he
00:48:26
says were railroaded, they had a they
00:48:30
they set up a shooting room to practice
00:48:32
the extraction. They had maps of the
00:48:35
bridge to figure out how to sequester
00:48:37
her from her um security detail. So what
00:48:41
is what how do you move to an
00:48:44
autotocracy? You a use political power
00:48:47
to uh enrich yourself. You reward your
00:48:49
enemies. Uh you punish your enemies
00:48:51
unfairly. You refuse you normalize
00:48:54
violence against your political enemies
00:48:56
and you create a chill across free
00:48:58
press. I mean other than him standing up
00:49:01
and dressing like Putin. I mean, what is
00:49:04
it we want before people are just going
00:49:07
to come out and say, "Okay, this guy uh
00:49:11
really is uh, you know, an an autocrat
00:49:14
slash, you know, embracing very fascist
00:49:17
ideals." Um, by the way, just back to
00:49:19
mental health, I found out that I don't
00:49:21
know if you knew this, but I've been
00:49:22
participating over the last 30 years in
00:49:24
this study on the relationship between
00:49:27
sex and mental health. And I'm so
00:49:29
depressed, Cara, I found out that I've
00:49:31
been part of the control group.
00:49:35
On that note, she's not coming out good
00:49:37
looking good in this thing. Think about
00:49:38
Paramount though. You know what defines
00:49:40
America other than other than the
00:49:42
world's richest man killing the world's
00:49:44
poorest children is the fact that the
00:49:46
three central figures in the Paramount
00:49:47
deal are Sher Redstone, Edgar Brmpman,
00:49:51
and David Ellison. What do they all have
00:49:53
in common? They're all the children of
00:49:55
billionaires. The only people propping
00:49:57
up media right now are billionaire kids
00:50:01
who want an excuse to hang out in LA,
00:50:03
drive Porsches, and bang actresses, I
00:50:05
guess. Well, whatever. Which, by the
00:50:07
way, I'm down for. If I had billions of
00:50:08
dollars, that's what I'd be doing,
00:50:10
perhaps. Anyway, we'll see. I have to
00:50:12
tell you. Well, Mission Impossible is
00:50:13
doing well. I don't know what to say.
00:50:15
Anyway, good job. It all comes back to
00:50:19
to Mission Impossible. Um, if you
00:50:20
although Lilo and Stitch is doing
00:50:22
better, um, if you've got a question of
00:50:24
your own that you like answered, send it
00:50:26
our way. Go to
00:50:27
nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for
00:50:29
the show or call 85551 pivot and listen
00:50:32
up. We're going to be doing another
00:50:33
call-in show soon. Submit your questions
00:50:35
and let us know uh you'd like to talk to
00:50:38
what you'd like to talk to us about live
00:50:40
and the producers will be in touch. We
00:50:42
like those shows. We think our listeners
00:50:44
are so smart. Um, all right, Scott, one
00:50:46
more uh quick break. We'll be back for
00:50:48
predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a
00:50:51
prediction. Okay, so my prediction is
00:50:52
sort of a boring one, but Trump is
00:50:55
feeling his oats around the macho steel
00:50:58
industry. He's he threatened to take
00:51:00
tariffs from 25% to 50%. And as a
00:51:03
result, um you've seen a surge in the
00:51:06
stock prices of our few remaining um
00:51:09
steel manufacturers. Cleveland Cliffs
00:51:12
jumped 22% which for a boring
00:51:14
manufacturing stock is enormous. Uh,
00:51:17
Steel Dynamics jumped 13%, new core up
00:51:20
12%, VANX steel, ETX rose more uh, than
00:51:25
3%. And just that alone, there are few
00:51:30
prosperity killers like a steel tariff.
00:51:34
Because here's the thing, this is an
00:51:36
unimportant small industry. This is not
00:51:38
a big business. It's not an important
00:51:40
business. And we can easily import steel
00:51:43
from Mexico and Canada. We don't even
00:51:45
have to have the security risk of
00:51:46
importing it in from China and importing
00:51:49
it in from Japan which is a hugely
00:51:51
important ally of which our ships that
00:51:54
we're worried about building actually
00:51:55
defend Japan. But we've decided this is
00:51:58
super important and but what it will do
00:52:01
while actually supporting very few
00:52:03
employees or growing the business a
00:52:05
great deal. What it will do is raise the
00:52:07
cost of housing and cars dramatically.
00:52:10
And by virtue of the fact of these
00:52:12
companies that are sleepy companies,
00:52:14
when you see their stock price
00:52:15
accelerate, it's based on the following.
00:52:17
That these companies are going to be
00:52:18
able to charge us prices now that the
00:52:21
tariffs are going from 25 to 50%. And
00:52:24
folks, who do you think is going to pay
00:52:26
for that increase in stock price,
00:52:29
consumers buying cars, consumers buying
00:52:31
housing? So my prediction is as happened
00:52:35
with the taco trade coined by Financial
00:52:37
Times journalist Robert Armstrong, you
00:52:40
are going to see Trump back down on the
00:52:42
steel tariffs when he starts to
00:52:44
recognize and gets calls from the many
00:52:47
more people than the small union or the
00:52:49
small number of employees benefiting
00:52:51
from the increase in these tariffs and
00:52:54
the huge number of consumers, automobile
00:52:58
and and homebuilders that are going to
00:53:00
get punished radically by he will back
00:53:03
off the tariffs and we will see the
00:53:05
stocks of these companies return to
00:53:07
their pre-tariff prices. In some my
00:53:10
prediction is Cleveland Cliffs and Steel
00:53:12
Dynamics give up all the gains as
00:53:15
evidenced by what has taken place with
00:53:16
the taco trade thus far uh in 2025.
00:53:20
Well, we'll turn our attentions then
00:53:22
also to that was a snoozer, wasn't it?
00:53:24
That's a snoozer. I was a snoozer. Why
00:53:26
don't you yell at Piers Morgan again? A
00:53:28
snoozer. You used up all your juice on
00:53:30
that one. That's what you did. That's
00:53:31
what I'm out. You're done. You're done.
00:53:33
Can I call you an Uber? I'm going to
00:53:35
sleep. Why don't you go steel trade is
00:53:37
depravity? There you go. Say depravity.
00:53:40
Yell depravity one more time for me. No,
00:53:41
I won't. I can't. Sorry, Cara. I'm not
00:53:43
your I'm not your Fifi the dancing
00:53:45
poodle here to entertain you. You eating
00:53:47
your ice oysters on the bay talking
00:53:50
injecting jellyfish semen into your
00:53:52
blood so you can look 61 again. I will
00:53:54
not be a part of your circus of hell.
00:53:56
Okay. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott
00:53:59
universe, this week on Prop G Markets,
00:54:01
you spoke to Robert Armstrong, the US
00:54:03
financial commentator for the Financial
00:54:05
Times, the person who coined Trump's
00:54:07
favorite phrase, taco trade, which is
00:54:08
Trump always chickens out. Let's listen
00:54:10
to a clip. The best thing about the
00:54:15
president's tariff policy is the
00:54:17
chickening out. Hooray for chickening
00:54:20
out. I'm all for it and I hope that it
00:54:23
may continue forever. So the idea that
00:54:26
I've made this stupid gag and I might
00:54:29
actually at the margin make the
00:54:32
president less likely to chicken out is
00:54:34
a very negative unintended consequence I
00:54:38
wish if possible to wash my hands off of
00:54:41
that's funny chickening out. That's such
00:54:44
a good word chicken. Um okay that's the
00:54:47
show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and
00:54:49
be sure to like and subscribe to our
00:54:51
YouTube channel. We'll be back next
00:54:53
week. Scott, read us out. Today's show
00:54:56
is produced by Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus,
00:54:57
Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie
00:54:59
Rad entry this episode. Thanks also to
00:55:01
Jarro, Miss Aaro, and Dan Shalon. Nash
00:55:04
Kerwa as Vox Media's executive producer
00:55:05
of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on
00:55:07
your favorite podcast platform. Thanks
00:55:09
for listening to Pivot from New York
00:55:11
Magazine and Vox Media. You can
00:55:12
subscribe to the magazine at
00:55:14
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back next week
00:55:16
for another breakdown of all things tech
00:55:18
and business. Cara, have a good weekend.
00:55:20
I'm rooting for the bullets.
