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hi my name is umi howard
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i'm the director of the littmann family
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prize the prize recognizes social sector
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organizations
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that are doing impactful work on
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globally significant issues
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and here today with me is malika dutt
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the
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founder and ceo of breakthrough
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breakthrough is the
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2014 winner of the littmann family prize
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and the work that they do is to address
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the culture
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and norms that make violence against
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women
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and girls unacceptable so
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malaka in your career you've been a
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lawyer
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a human rights advocate and a
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ceo of a international ngo
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in 2000 you started breakthrough tell us
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what was the reason that you were
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compelled to
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start the organization
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breakthrough was really an accident
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i was working at the ford foundation as
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the human rights program officer at the
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time
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and i had been in the u.s for many many
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years i came here to study and i'd gone
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back to india with this job at
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ford and i was just in this place where
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i was
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thinking about what we were doing in the
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human rights movement
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and feeling increasingly like we were in
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an echo chamber we were talking to one
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another
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as opposed to really talking to the
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people around us that we were trying to
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transform
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so i started to think about what
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were the things that people in the world
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were doing and
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the pop culture space popped out at me
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it was a time when television was just
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becoming uh privatized and going into
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sort of the cable
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space in india you know before that it
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was very government controlled
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so i started to poke around and the idea
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of producing a music album with a music
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video
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that addressed violence against women
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just started to kind of
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percolate you know it just started
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rattling around in my head
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and you know i had been a lawyer been a
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philanthropist
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been in the human rights space through
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advocacy legal services
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public policy i don't know the first
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thing about
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music production or video production or
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the media or any of that
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so i just started to talk to people
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i went off to bombay which is where the
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entertainment industry is really
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located and chatted with people at sony
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and at bmg and at virgin music and
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mtv and as that as those conversations
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uh went on
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this album started to take shape so at
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the end of 2000 i launched
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manke manjire which means rhythm of the
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mind an album of women's dreams
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along with a music video and i got
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virgin records to partner
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uh with me on that launch and
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all of the people that i had talked to
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had said
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album violence against women women's
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issues
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really this is not going to work and lo
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and behold
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the album went through the charts the
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music video went through the charts
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and the shantanu muitra the music
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director prasun joshi the lyricist
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shubham the main artist on the album
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and myself were just inundated with
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media requests and there we were
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all of a sudden on media every day all
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the time and
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with this album out there in the public
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space
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leading a conversation about violence
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against women in india
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when that happened i was faced with a
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choice of did i stay at ford
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and continue with my program officer
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career
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or did i say well there's something here
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about this idea that i had that seems to
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be working
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and should i pursue that and so
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obviously
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i chose the latter course and that's how
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breakthrough was born and it's uh it's
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fortunate that you did make that choice
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the um can you talk a little bit about
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the
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central issue of violence against women
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and girls and why that's so important
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you know violence against women and
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girls is the
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largest single largest human rights
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pandemic
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on this planet violence against women
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and girls takes place
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in homes on the streets in schools
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in workplaces in conflicts
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at every sort of location
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and site this is a violation that women
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are subjected to
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it's very ironic because home is
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supposed to be
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this idea of a safe space you know this
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this home that nurtures you
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mom dad family protection
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safety and really in fact for millions
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of women around the world
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and in the united states home is the
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most unsafe space
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it can start with your being terminated
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because you happen to be a female fetus
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it can lead to your being killed because
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you're a female child
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you can experience you can be subjected
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to incest and all kinds of sexual
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violence and abuse
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through your teenage years end up in a
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situation of domestic violence
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in the workplace be subjected to sexual
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harassment and all kinds of other forms
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of abuse
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and then even as a widow experience all
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kinds of discrimination
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so for me violence against women sort of
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underlies
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so many other human rights issues
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it's the place where we learn to
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disrespect one another
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and when men disrespect women
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and it starts with the home and kids
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watch that pattern it plays itself out
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it reproduces itself generation upon
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generation
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and then it imbues all of our
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institutions whether it's unequal pay
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whether it's access to health care
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whether it's
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jobs in any context it
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it infuses all of our cultural political
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and social institutions with bias
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against women and girls so i feel like
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if we
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don't really take on
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gender-based discrimination sort of as a
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core
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issue that all of us address that many
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of the other issues that we care about
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on this planet
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really cannot be solved
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so can you talk about the um
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the model that breakthrough uses in
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approaching this
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issue you you mentioned the album that
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was the
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sort of the spark in the very beginning
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um
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talk a little bit about media uh
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and the the way in which breakthrough
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uses it uh to accomplish its work
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breakthrough is really interested in
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transforming
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the social and cultural norms on which
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violence against women rest so it's not
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enough to just
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deal with the problem after the fact
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we're really interested in figuring out
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how we stop it right how do we change it
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and i've just found that using culture
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to change culture is a really effective
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way
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of engaging people so when i say using
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culture
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that is really everything from
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now new technology social media to
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television radio and print
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to storytelling in all kinds of forms
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short animations documentaries
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street theater traditional forms of
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theater
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comic books we we're not
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focused on one form of storytelling we
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think
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storytelling and engaging people where
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they are
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is an effective way of bringing people
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into a conversation
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so media arts and technology has become
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a very strong
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pillar of breakthroughs work we've
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created several multimedia campaigns
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three music videos three video games
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multiple documentaries short form
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documentaries
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and we've won a lot of awards for them
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as well
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one of our most successful campaigns has
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been bell bajau
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or ring the bell which calls on men to
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challenge violence against women
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now that campaign has television ads
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radio and print as well
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as street theater and all kinds of
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things that we've used at the community
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level
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it's become a global campaign it started
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in india calling on men
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to challenge domestic violence it was
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the first time that we engaged
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men as part of a solution as opposed to
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simply talking to men
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as part of the problem as perpetrators
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and we found an incredible response to
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that shift
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when you invite people to the table and
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say we've got a problem
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it's all about problem let's fix it
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it's a different narrative than when you
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say you are a problem
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and we need to fix you right yes so this
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campaign
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which started in india reached 130
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million people
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through national television at the
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community level we used video vans that
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were accompanied by
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our rights advocates young people that
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we train to be advocates for women and
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girls
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went through all of these communities at
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the grassroots level in small towns and
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villages
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across two states in india and we really
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saw
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a conversation emerging around domestic
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violence that
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kind of brought it out of the private
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space into the public space in a very
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different way than had happened before
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that campaign has now been adapted in
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vietnam in pakistan
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in china multiple countries
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and then it went into a next phase
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campaign called ring the bell one
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million men
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one million promises which really became
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global last march
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and there we ended up partnering with
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folks in south africa and brazil
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and sweden and nepal just all over the
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world
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and that's an example of sort of how we
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bring
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media arts and culture as a way of
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telling the story
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into strategic partnerships whether it's
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with ogilvy
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government agencies corporates
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grassroots organizations
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or celebrities and bring that really
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into a community engagement process so
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that we can change
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the agenda so that we can transform
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the norms that lead to violence against
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women
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something that i know the prize
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committee appreciated about
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breakthrough's work
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is that it's a truly universal issue
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it's not just a poor people's issue
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to put it you know to put it bluntly and
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uh
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the the way in which breakthrough is
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doing both uh what we might call
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bottom up uh kind of grassroots level
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organizing as well as
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the top-down approach that includes the
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use of media
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is is exceptional and so can you talk a
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little bit about what you're learning
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from the blend of those two strategies
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about
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creating change one of the things that
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i was really interested in when i was
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sort of playing around with the pop
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culture space was the question of scale
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right you know for a lot of
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organizations
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that are in the nonprofit space
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resources
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are always a challenge and so
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how many people can you reach what kind
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of scale can you achieve
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how do you reach larger numbers of
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people i had come into this work from
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doing a lot of direct service work
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with abused women you know i had
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represented women
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in court and in a number of different
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ways been part of
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the provision of services then been a
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part of a big global public policy push
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at the un level
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to really ask for the recognition of
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women's rights as human rights
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so i sort of had this experience of
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engaging at different
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points of intervention and the question
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of scale for me
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started to really become an important
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one global problem global pandemic
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how do you reach scale at the same time
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i also
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understood that scale is reached one
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person at a time
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right scale isn't like some amorphous
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thing out there scale is
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how do you reach millions of people how
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do you transform millions of people
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how do you change attitudes of millions
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of people right
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so the media space for me
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is a really important way of doing that
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the scale
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thing right like is being able to talk
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to
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30 million people 130 million people
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or several hundred thousand people with
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relatively few resources i'm not saying
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that you don't need resources but you
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are able to make a psa even if the psa
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costs
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fifty thousand dollars my fifty thousand
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dollar psa
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reaches 130 million people you know the
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numbers
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really work for you um so
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that was part of why the mass media
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thing for me was so important and the
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partnerships
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to scale up were so important the work
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at the community level
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is important because our
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motto at breakthrough our sort of
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tagline if you will is that human rights
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start with you
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these things have to be at scale so that
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they bring
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a lot of people to the table and they
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have to be anchored in every single
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individual wherever he or she
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is located and that is because
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if we don't find ways for people to
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incorporate
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that change within themselves all of the
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mass media all of the talk
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out there can just remain
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talk you know there's a quote by eleanor
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roosevelt
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that has been sort of one of my guiding
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lights in my work for years
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and it goes something like this and she
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says where after all do human rights
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begin
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in small places close to home
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so close so small that they cannot be
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seen on any map of the world
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if they have no meaning there they have
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no meaning
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anywhere so that's why for me
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the individual engagement work the
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community engagement work
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and then sort of this larger global
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constituency building work
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are all intertwined and media arts and
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technology
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become really incredibly important ways
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to straddle
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all of those multiple levels one of the
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other really attractive things about
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breakthrough is that there is um
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really kind of a two-way conversation
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happening between the work that's going
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on in india
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and the work that's going on in the u.s
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and as you put it
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there's no sort of mothership or parent
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organization
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and so um one thing that i'm curious
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about is
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how your um how you're learning from
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india is translating to the work that
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you're doing in the u.s
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so you know one of the things that um
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among the various things that were
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driving me nuts being a part of the
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global ngo movement space uh was this
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issue of
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international organizations were all
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based in the global north
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and could call themselves international
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and
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every organization that was based in the
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global south was local
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right and the international
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organizations that were
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based in the global north often didn't
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do any work in the country
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that they were sitting in so they were
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ins you know so they existed in new york
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city but all of their energy was focused
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on
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i don't know three countries in africa
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or parts of asia or latin america or
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wherever but not like really rooted
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in the united states itself and i really
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felt that that paradigm continued to
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perpetuate sort of old colonial
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narratives and memes right like so it
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was okay we've gotten past colonialism
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but we're still stuck
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in the same way of thinking about well
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we know what to do when we're going to
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go and tell you what to do
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and we're going to go help you rather
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than we have these problems together
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and what are the ways in which we solve
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them together so when
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the idea of breakthrough started to
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percolate that was something that
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you know was very much a part of my
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consciousness
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so i incorporated breakthrough in india
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and the united states simultaneously
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and said since i was the founder
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there's no headquarters and there's no
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field office
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breakthrough comprises of two centers
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that operate out of india and the united
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states and
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that's just who we are right so i think
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just even from the get go
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like the conceptualization of the
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organization started with some of that
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thinking in place the initial idea was
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that we were going to address women's
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human rights everywhere
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within a year of my starting
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breakthrough 9 11 happened in the united
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states
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and so you know i am
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a hybrid identity person i'm indian
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and i deeply care about what happens in
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the united states and i deeply care
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about what happens in india and i deeply
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care about what happens in the world
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when 9 11 happened the kind
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of backlash that we saw against
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immigrant communities communities of
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color
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south asians muslims in the united
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states was just
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intense and so you know i had to make
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the decision whether
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i was going to be like well this is the
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mission violence against women or
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we're flexible enough that we deal with
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what we're being faced with
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so what ended up happening was that
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india continued to work on violence
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against women
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as its primary issue and in the united
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states we really started to focus on the
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impact of
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9 11 on human rights here detention and
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deportation
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what was happening to immigrant
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communities families being torn about
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you know laws and policies that were
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just eviscerating constitutional rights
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so an incredible body of work evolved
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differently in both countries that then
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started to inform one another
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two years ago last year we made the
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decision that we were going to realign
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around
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our mission of making violence against
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women and girls unacceptable
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because i was back to the question of
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impact and scale
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how do we do impact and scale around a
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really critical issue
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so we brought the alignment of
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breakthrough back together around
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violence against women and girls and now
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we had
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the india center with
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you know 13 years of incredible
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programming and experience
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providing all kinds of help and support
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to the us
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team that was not embarking on something
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for the first time because
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in our immigration work women's rights
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violence against women were an integral
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part of it
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but really a whole body of sort of
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learning that we are now adopting and
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adapting
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into the u.s work as we go forward so in
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the united states we're now looking at
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possibly creating partnerships with
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fraternities
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talking about sites of violence sexual
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assault on campus has emerged
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has always been a challenging issue but
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it's an issue that's getting a lot of
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attention right now
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and we're really interested in figuring
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out how we anchor that work
00:19:52
within institutions and sites where that
00:19:55
culture is being created and how do we
00:19:57
interrupt and transform
00:19:59
fraternity culture so that we can really
00:20:01
start looking at gender
00:20:03
and challenging balancing as women
00:20:05
differently right here in the united
00:20:06
states
00:20:08
so as a final question uh in the space
00:20:11
of
00:20:12
human rights advocacy media
00:20:15
are there any trends that you think we
00:20:18
should be watching for
00:20:21
you know i think that we're in this sort
00:20:22
of singular moment
00:20:24
where two things seem to be happening
00:20:28
simultaneously the first
00:20:31
is that the world is going to hell in a
00:20:32
hand basket
00:20:34
we have you know
00:20:39
some really serious problems whether
00:20:41
it's climate change whether it's
00:20:42
continuing conflict whether it's
00:20:44
an economy that doesn't seem to really
00:20:47
provide
00:20:48
jobs with the quality of life that we
00:20:51
had imagined whether it's inequality
00:20:53
whether it's
00:20:54
uh you know poverty um
00:20:57
i mean we're we're really grappling with
00:20:59
a lot of issues that we thought we would
00:21:01
have
00:21:02
dealt with and solved a long time ago
00:21:07
so we're and we're seeing a lot of
00:21:09
failing institutions and i think a
00:21:11
political leadership that doesn't have a
00:21:13
clue
00:21:14
as to what to do or how to fix any of it
00:21:16
and
00:21:17
people who are still stuck in sort of
00:21:18
very old ways of thinking
00:21:21
trying to lead us out of our current
00:21:24
many crises
00:21:26
at the same time we have this emerging
00:21:30
group groups many many communities of
00:21:33
people around the world
00:21:34
who really are beginning to understand
00:21:37
our shared humanity
00:21:39
who really are beginning to understand
00:21:41
that what happens to you
00:21:43
affects me and what i do affects you um
00:21:47
in a really deep relational way and
00:21:50
i find that younger people kind of get
00:21:53
that
00:21:54
much more than you know some of our my
00:21:57
generation even
00:21:58
does so i think the trend to watch for
00:22:03
is how
00:22:03
are what is the new leadership that's
00:22:06
emerging
00:22:08
thinking about how we problem solve how
00:22:11
does technology
00:22:12
allow us to problem solve differently
00:22:15
while again anchoring it
00:22:16
in the lives of people
00:22:19
the old top-down model of hierarchical
00:22:24
instruction and decision-making is gone
00:22:26
is broken
00:22:27
there's still pockets especially of men
00:22:30
who are holding on to that old model of
00:22:33
being you know whether it's
00:22:34
political leaders whether it's you know
00:22:37
the taliban whether it's
00:22:38
there's there's these pockets these
00:22:41
holdouts
00:22:41
so it's not like one nice linear process
00:22:44
that's going on it's all mixed up
00:22:46
but i think that these are trends that
00:22:47
we really need to
00:22:49
pay attention to because the solutions
00:22:52
that we need for our planet
00:22:54
are going to emerge from this next
00:22:56
generation of leaders
00:22:58
and we believe at breakthrough that this
00:23:01
is going to be the breakthrough
00:23:02
generation
00:23:03
that finally makes violence against
00:23:05
women and girls unacceptable
00:23:06
this is going to be the generation that
00:23:08
is actually able to do that
00:23:10
norm change that shift in sort of values
00:23:13
and attitudes that
00:23:15
really starts to push all of us to view
00:23:18
one another
00:23:19
as human beings to view one another with
00:23:21
respect
00:23:22
and to think about how we build a
00:23:24
society
00:23:26
an economy a world
00:23:29
where that idea of human dignity for
00:23:32
everybody is sort of the cornerstone
00:23:34
of how we move forward thank you so much
00:23:37
for your work and for this conversation
00:23:48
today
00:24:03
you
