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our guests today are Mahmood Mohideen of
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the senior vice president at the World
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Bank Group in charge of partnerships and
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also Georgia Petrowski who is a senior
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fellow at the zipline Center member
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Georgia thank you so much for joining us
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today on knowledge at Wharton
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thank you so much thank you very much
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but maybe to begin with you when we met
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in Washington DC last year we were
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talking about the sustainable
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development goals and I was wondering if
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we could begin by talking about where
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are things today where do things stand
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in terms of deemed of implementation of
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those goals right there are many ways in
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looking at the progress on the SDGs one
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of them in the official way of handling
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the progress so if you measure it by the
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number of presentations and submissions
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to the UN system through ministers of
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finance and development it is going to
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be on the increase because many more
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countries have committed to present
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their plans for the 2030 agenda and they
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are all going to be doing that in July
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this year at the UN headquarters in New
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York so you can really see that there is
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some sort of official commitment
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demonstrated by the number of ministers
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and governments participating this year
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that will bring the total of submissions
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and presentations to more than 110
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countries so this is more than half of
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the membership of the UN which is 193
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countries then you take it into the more
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practical level at the national level
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how many countries have done better in
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terms of designing their own national
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plans design their own budgets to deal
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with the SDGs I would say that not all
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of those who submitted have done that
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there is always a difference between
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what's happening a reality
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the official presentations and the
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measure of that is basically how many
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countries that you can logo and their
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websites and see the SDGs in their
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budgets and you'll will be surprised to
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see that there are only very small
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number of countries which have done that
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so far
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the justification could be that still
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the third years and the launching of the
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SDGs that some of the lines of business
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are continuing but without really naming
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or renaming them under the new s disease
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but coming from a finance institution we
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take matters more seriously when you see
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the government plans are reflected in
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their budget priorities the third level
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which is more important than the two is
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basically the local level to what extent
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you have seen improvements in people's
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lives or the policies and institutions
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addressing their issues of concern since
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the launching of these disease in 2015
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as we know the SDGs or the sustainable
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development goals are about more
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inclusive growth better social
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development and better consideration for
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environment and climate change issues
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again not all countries have done that
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at the local level there are some good
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bright cases I was in Colombia recently
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I've seen some good progress I I know
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that there are other Latin American
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countries including Mexico and others
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who are taken this issue seriously there
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are countries in the East like China and
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Vietnam and Korea and Japan who have the
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good investments in in the connection
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between the central level and the local
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level India have done well in that front
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as well in Africa I think there are many
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issues that are constraining governments
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but again you can really see countries
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like Rwanda doing very well in this
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front this doesn't mean that others are
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not doing but basically I'm trying to
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give examples of
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exceptional progress in terms of the
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commitment of the leadership and
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translating this commitment into some
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sort of localized solutions so you happy
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with the progress so far or using things
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that are running a little bit later than
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you'd like yeah well it's very much
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related to the performance at the
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country level so it it's not my
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happiness of the people's happiness that
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matter here if you are seeing this kind
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of improvement at the local level and
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people are more engaged and seeing some
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sort of better impact on reduction of
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poverty improvement and on health and
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education services and the rest of the
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17 goals you can see every Development
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Agency and it stopped like me happy with
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the progress Georgia turning to you one
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of the initiatives that you in the
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cyclin Center have been collaborating on
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with the World Bank Group and other
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partners is the ideas for action which
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is a way to inspire young people to get
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involved in coming up with ideas to make
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the sustainable development goals a
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reality how is that program coming along
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based on what Mahmood just said in terms
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of countries that are not perhaps doing
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as much as they could be doing as
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quickly as they should be so I mean this
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year we are really surprised I mean last
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year we were surprised because we double
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the proposals but this year we triple
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the proposals which clearly demonstrate
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tremendous interest from young people to
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be part of this process to own the
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process and at the same time to come
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with actionable actionable ideas of
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implementation so what mood was
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referring that the government is
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signaling commitment to these issues now
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the question is because the
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implementation at the end of the day
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will not happen just because the
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government engage you have to engage the
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private sector you have to engage young
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entrepreneurs and this is something
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where we would like to interfere
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I mean engage with and the fact that we
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in addition to students we have young
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entrepreneurs and young professionals
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that means that they are also making
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kite of not just pressure but making the
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CEOs of the companies more comfortable
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that they have already young people
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working for
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who can commit innovative ideas so
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basically if we travel the triple the
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proposals we have over 2100 the number
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of teams was four times higher than that
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we have examples of business association
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like the German Brazilian Chamber of
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Commerce which utilized the network of
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companies to engage them in young
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profession to generate ideas in Eastern
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Europe a pharmaceutical company Hema far
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use this as a platform not only to
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generate ideas to make their company
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more sustainable or engagement in
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sustainability but at the same time
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really to communicate to the government
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that corporations can get engaged with
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additional and critical knowledge of how
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to deal with these issues so that's
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really very encouraging to know that the
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amount of participation has increased so
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much what are some of the reasons that
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drove this increase I think the
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philosophy of this program that is not
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just about competition but is a platform
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for learning platform for exchanging
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knowledge and critical critically local
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partnership I mean we made some major
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breakthroughs for example in Egypt and
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that was driven by idea for action Egypt
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club major breakthrough in Nigeria but
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idea for action African club I already
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mentioned there Hema Fonda the company
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in Eastern Europe I measure the Chamber
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of Commerce so basically I think the
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collaboration between the signaling
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center and the World Bank is more or
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creating that platform and facilitating
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so that the local initiatives are better
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designed and also supported so that they
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can generate better ideas coming back to
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you how does the idea for ideas for
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action programme fit in more broadly
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with what you and the World Bank are
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trying to achieve with the sustainable
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development goals one of the main things
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that came out from the UN discussions of
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this disease and one of the
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that we are pushing at the bank is the
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issue of partnerships it's one of the
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goals of the sustainable development
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agenda and in our case it's basically
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about how to rely on on our own
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comparative advantage when it comes to
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finance or knowledge but realizing as
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well that others would have their own
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comparative advantages in some
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particular fields the advantage of doing
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this kind of partnership with the
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Wharton has a place of excellence when
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it comes to knowledge and academia the
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partnerships with the business sector
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and the partnership with young minds and
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young people with their own ideas and
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their own ways of challenging the status
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quo and and actually the whole thing
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came out from here I was invited by
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Georgia four years ago to one of his
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classes and based on an exchange and of
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ideas and discussion and my way back to
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Washington DC I called him from the
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Train I said well why don't we start
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having all of these ideas
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institutionalized rather than having
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them coming out from a seminar or a
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lecture so let's have that and let not
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limit not limited to Wharton and make it
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a kind of a big platform and the idea
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developed and this is the fourth year we
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have thousands of participants from
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around the world from more than 120
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countries coming with their own
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proposals of tough competition because
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and actually the difficulty now is not
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for those who wrote the proposals and
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finishing them the difficulty as it
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happened last year and the year before
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for those who are going to be assessing
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such high quality of good ideas mixing
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very good understanding in a positive
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way good understanding of the problems
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in their neighborhoods and their
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villages in their townships and their
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urban areas as well with whatever they
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learned in school and university with
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their exposure of different ideas coming
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through the open space of ideas around
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the world and getting there all in a way
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to convince
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very tough assessors of what could be
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really a good workable scalable proposal
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on finance for for development
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you mentioned 120 countries involved in
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this exercise is it your sense that it
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is primarily the developing countries
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that should be focusing on the SDGs or
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is this also something for the developed
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countries to focus on for example our
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STG is also important for the u.s. it is
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the main thing about the SDG is in
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comparison to its predecessor the MDGs
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nor the Millennium Development Goals in
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the past which ended in 2015 that the
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previous goals were basically focusing
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on developing countries and human
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development and with particular areas of
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work only eight goals the new and more
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challenging aspect of the his disease
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its universal universality it is
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addressing the challenges in the poorest
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of the countries in the world and the
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challenges as well of progress and
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maintaining what what you have and
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improving on it in the most advanced of
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the economies and if we measure it again
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by the submissions you will be happy to
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see that there is this enthusiasm by
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developing countries but again many of
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the OECD countries the Nordics some of
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the richest countries in the world we're
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in the forefront including the g20 and
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the g7 countries have been submitting
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earlier than others just to challenge
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themselves and their communities about
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what's going to be happening in the
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future
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would referred to the tremendous
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difficulty of taking all these thousands
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of wonderful ideas and trying to
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cherry-pick some of the most impactful
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ideas how do you do that well what's how
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do you select which are the best ideas
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that should be focused on and
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prioritized okay let me first mention
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that those who are making the selection
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are also very motivated to do that
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because for them that's exposing
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themselves to the reality or
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the ground so it's a mutually learning
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process when we have people from IFC or
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the World Bank selecting these projects
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in a particular country for example they
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will get pretty clear idea what from
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young people perspectives are priorities
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for these countries and there are very
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different layers of selection so that in
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each layer they get more feedback on how
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to improve their proposals and of course
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the final proposals will end up in the
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book which is published by the World
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Bank which goes through very elaborate
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editing so the bottom line basically is
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yes it takes time but if you don't look
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at that as a mechanical process of
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selection but there's a process of
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learning and providing feedback for
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those who are participating is very
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fulfilling I'm sure it is coming back to
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you these days there is a tremendous
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focus on science and technology and
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innovation as game changers in how how
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the world of business is evolving and a
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world of economic development is
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evolving how do you see the role of
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innovation and science and technology in
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the implementation of the SDGs overall
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but also in the kind of ideas that are
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proposed through initiatives like ideas
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for action there's a very good question
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the SDI or science technology and
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innovation were included in the
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documents of Addis which are basically
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the documents related to the
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implementation of the sustainable
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development goals there is a full
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chapter on that but and as you know it
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has happened in July 2015 but because of
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the fast changes that are happening in
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the areas of science and innovation and
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technology and this big discussion about
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the implications of the fourth
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Industrial Revolution if you write this
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chapter today despite the fact there's
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only three years old you it would be a
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completely different
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chapter in terms of the ways of handling
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the matter in terms of the kind of
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partnerships you feel that and the
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address again that was more of the
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responsibility of the government I want
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to do that and perhaps to partner with
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the Centers of Excellence and the
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private sector now in reality you can't
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really see who are driving the the
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changes in this area
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yes government is involved in different
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aspects it can incubate and support and
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give a good platform for the flourishing
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of new ideas and better technological
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solutions but the private sector
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business and academia that are basically
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behind all of these new ideas so I think
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the emphasis will be different and the
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kind of achievable outcomes from a focus
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on science technology and innovation
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rather than dealing with it as a kind of
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a separate sector it should be
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mainstreamed and integrated in every
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aspect of work including how to get
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better data by using Big Data solutions
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and other means to get better evidence
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of what works and what doesn't work when
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we talk about financed what extent the
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use of technology mobile money clouding
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finance the new technologies including
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blockchain and some of its good and
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controversial outcomes as well how can
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we consider them when we talk about
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implementation how technology can enable
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a hospital or a clinic in a remote
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village to get the best ideas coming out
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say from the United States of America
00:16:48
when it comes to good solutions to to
00:16:51
medical problems and diseases so all of
00:16:54
all of these kinds of new ideas
00:16:56
associated with STI needs to get us into
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a more dynamic version of considering it
00:17:03
rather than just say well getting more
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from the government and ignoring the
00:17:08
private sector and academic centers when
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it comes to the partnerships one of the
00:17:15
most interesting things that you just
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mentioned Georgia is the role of
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academia
00:17:21
in helping to come up with these ideas
00:17:24
how do you see in from your perspective
00:17:27
of the ideas for action program the rule
00:17:30
of academic institutions and in making
00:17:32
these kinds of initiatives successful I
00:17:34
mean let me just step back before
00:17:36
directly answering that question over
00:17:38
the weekend the singly center organized
00:17:41
an event related to blockchain and there
00:17:46
was an interesting presentation from
00:17:47
Macaulay from MIT who basically said
00:17:50
most of the disruptive innovations in
00:17:52
that space come from people between 24
00:17:55
and 28 years old so I asked the question
00:17:59
what kind of education they got before
00:18:01
they got there so I think from academic
00:18:04
perspective we have at least two
00:18:07
challenges one is to go beyond the
00:18:10
traditional boundaries because in this
00:18:12
space of blockchains you see people from
00:18:16
technology side and lawyers to make sure
00:18:19
that they don't get in trouble but they
00:18:21
are development experts business people
00:18:23
are not there so I would argue that they
00:18:26
still a disconnect between what are the
00:18:30
most exciting technological solutions
00:18:32
and what are the real needs on the
00:18:35
ground that needs to be addressed to
00:18:37
this and I think that that hit Silicon
00:18:41
Valley is already feeling there is no
00:18:44
major new ideas coming from there
00:18:46
because it's more kind of kind of a
00:18:48
linear improvement on the technology
00:18:51
side but not a major change of
00:18:53
identifying the real problems that can
00:18:56
be handled and make money by the way
00:18:58
it's not just an absurd philanthropy or
00:19:00
development issues now of course on the
00:19:04
academia side one big benefit of this
00:19:07
whole initiative is that we from one
00:19:10
side we captured the reality on the
00:19:11
ground but we also get understanding of
00:19:14
what are the gaps in terms of knowledge
00:19:16
and skills the dis young people are
00:19:19
coming and cannot utilize them because
00:19:22
they are facing a little bit different
00:19:23
reality than what is sometimes presented
00:19:25
in the regular education and for
00:19:28
academies I think identifying these gaps
00:19:30
is a good reminder
00:19:33
that in addition of publishing papers
00:19:35
they also need to be a little bit more
00:19:37
focused and careful how to that process
00:19:40
we are preparing the next generation of
00:19:43
leaders or at the preneur so that they
00:19:46
really deal with these the fundamental
00:19:48
issues looking to the future a little
00:19:52
bit one of the biggest issues that the
00:19:54
world faces today is that of gender
00:19:57
imbalance and how even the resources
00:20:00
that exist are distributed so unequally
00:20:03
between men and women if you think about
00:20:07
the use of innovation and science and
00:20:10
technology in not just empowering women
00:20:13
but but bringing about greater gender
00:20:17
parity around the world what are some of
00:20:21
the new ideas that can be implemented to
00:20:24
drive that sort of change you know maybe
00:20:27
I wonder if you have any thoughts on new
00:20:29
initiatives that could point in that
00:20:31
direction yeah just over the horizon
00:20:33
confirm what you said the problems
00:20:35
related to inequality discrepancy and
00:20:37
unfairness against women are all over
00:20:40
not just in the developing countries but
00:20:42
in many of the advanced economies as
00:20:44
well when it comes to pay opportunities
00:20:48
furnace in in dealing but when it comes
00:20:51
to developing countries women would be
00:20:53
suffering from the same problems like
00:20:56
like what men would suffer from but they
00:20:59
have their own problems as well and one
00:21:02
of the new initiatives that we are
00:21:04
trying to develop and to launch during
00:21:07
the spring meetings of the World Bank
00:21:09
and the IMF in April this year is an
00:21:13
initiative that would link the SDGs
00:21:16
to women entrepreneurs recognizing that
00:21:19
if you happen to be a woman in a rural
00:21:23
area under the age of 25 so each one of
00:21:26
what I said now being a woman in a rural
00:21:29
area under 25 brings different aspects
00:21:33
of these advantages and discrimination
00:21:35
when it comes to Financial Inclusion
00:21:37
access to market and access to
00:21:39
opportunities we can really see that
00:21:42
technology and innovation especially in
00:21:45
IT field could really bring many good
00:21:48
solutions to these problems but you need
00:21:51
to have the investments some of these
00:21:53
investments could be related to the
00:21:55
digital world but many of them could be
00:21:57
analog investments who shouldn't really
00:21:59
be undermining the importance of good
00:22:02
education good access on the road better
00:22:05
investment in nutrition and health for
00:22:08
for women as well having said that we
00:22:10
are the in partnership again with the
00:22:13
second Center and Wharton Business
00:22:15
School and with the UN system through
00:22:18
the participation of the United Nation
00:22:19
the Development Programme with the UN
00:22:22
women with variety of economic
00:22:25
Commission's of the UN system and the
00:22:26
business sector we are having an
00:22:28
initiative we are calling it s disease
00:22:30
an error so it's sustainable development
00:22:32
goals and women in all ages but we are
00:22:36
focusing on the role of women as
00:22:38
entrepreneurs and through their own
00:22:41
micro enterprises and whatever they are
00:22:43
investing of their time and their
00:22:45
efforts and their talents in order to
00:22:48
bring some solutions to their poverty
00:22:51
and the poverty of their families and
00:22:54
the poverty of their neighborhood sounds
00:22:58
like a very interesting initiative from
00:23:00
the cycling centers point of view what
00:23:03
is your perspective how would this fit
00:23:05
in with the work that you are already
00:23:06
doing for ideas for action and where
00:23:08
would you like to see this initiative go
00:23:10
well from one side there is a tremendous
00:23:12
complementarity in this because many
00:23:14
proposal we receive are coming from
00:23:16
young girls and women so the connections
00:23:19
is already there and also we would like
00:23:22
through this engagement to utilize this
00:23:25
not as a competition for good ideas or
00:23:29
recognizing a woman who've been
00:23:31
successful so far but also utilizing the
00:23:34
resources that Wharton and other
00:23:36
academic institutions have to provide a
00:23:38
platform where they can better equip
00:23:42
themselves to take a leadership role
00:23:44
because it's not a matter whether we
00:23:47
cannot just separate the fact that they
00:23:49
are not equally paid we first to have
00:23:52
another class at least in peril we have
00:23:54
to address are they are equally equipped
00:23:57
do they have opportunity to really get
00:23:59
access to that knowledge that will make
00:24:01
them more creative more productive and
00:24:04
through that and what Matt would mention
00:24:06
I think the critical question is their
00:24:08
role as a heads of the families so it's
00:24:12
not just about a woman it's about their
00:24:14
family about encouraging their own
00:24:16
daughters to get in this in this space
00:24:19
so I think from our perspective
00:24:21
definitely this is something where we
00:24:23
would like to go you know stronger to
00:24:27
sort of wrap this up with one final
00:24:29
question for each of you if I were to
00:24:32
ask you to gaze into the crystal ball
00:24:34
and and look at the future next you know
00:24:38
12 to 24 months where would you want to
00:24:41
see ideas for action and this SDGs and
00:24:44
her initiative go and and what
00:24:47
contribution would you like to see it
00:24:48
make to the sustainable development
00:24:51
goals around the world men would start
00:24:53
with you perhaps well three things for
00:24:55
the ideas for action next year is going
00:24:58
to be the fifth year so we hope for more
00:25:01
progress and progress is measured by two
00:25:03
things by the quantity and we are happy
00:25:05
with the enormous progress and we hope
00:25:07
to reach not just the 120 plus countries
00:25:10
but the whole membership of the World
00:25:13
Bank and the UN system in terms of
00:25:16
quality we were very much impressed by
00:25:18
the the quality we need more in terms of
00:25:22
having ideas that could be workable
00:25:26
solutions and scalable and the third is
00:25:29
related to the SDGs on her while it is
00:25:32
following the good footsteps of the
00:25:37
ideas for action but we need really to
00:25:40
see a big start for this one initiative
00:25:44
given the importance of the role of
00:25:46
women especially young women and micro
00:25:49
enterprises in the society and the
00:25:51
economy and to have the impact shirt
00:25:54
wonderful George I think you had the
00:25:56
final word what would you be pressure I
00:26:00
would say if first to go beyond what
00:26:04
usually is a topic of conversation of
00:26:07
heroic entrepreneurs people who will
00:26:10
change the world
00:26:11
solved all these global
00:26:13
we would like to see more progress at
00:26:15
the local level more progress of
00:26:17
initiatives which are driven at the
00:26:19
local level
00:26:20
solving the local problems because that
00:26:22
will be a key contribution to solving
00:26:24
these more broader current programs and
00:26:26
that's what we've been particularly this
00:26:29
year achieving so we also want to see
00:26:31
more recognitions of these ideas at the
00:26:35
local level because they solve specific
00:26:37
problems and we will see in the coming
00:26:39
months in fact that that is happening in
00:26:42
Democratic Republic of Congo which is
00:26:44
country with not that strong
00:26:46
institutions at King Nigeria Colombia in
00:26:49
the Balkans and that's what I'm really
00:26:52
after more in terms of implementation
00:26:55
but through that implementation shaping
00:26:58
the the ecosystem inside the country and
00:27:02
even sub law a local level so that more
00:27:05
ideas which are not necessarily generate
00:27:07
with right years for action will have a
00:27:09
chance to succeed Georgia thank you so
00:27:13
much for speaking today with knowledge
00:27:15
at Wharton thank you very much
00:27:17
for more insight from knowledge at
00:27:20
Wharton please visit knowledge Wharton
00:27:23
UPenn edu
00:27:27
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