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welcome to knowledge at Wharton I'm
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Sandy maroh hunt associate director at
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the Wharton social impact initiative and
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I'm thrilled to welcome you to a
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conversation today with Jackie
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vanderbrug managing director at Bank of
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America us trust welcome Jackie thank
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you so among many other things Jackie
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you are a thought leader in the gender
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lens investing space I'm very excited to
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have this conversation with you because
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we love to bring our Wharton Community
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whether students alumni and friends the
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latest in the impact investing and
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broader investing space so let's start
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at the beginning what is gender lens
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investing so first of all thank you for
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having me here thrilled to be here and
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gender lens investing is a process it's
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the deliberate integration of gender
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analysis into investment analysis and
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decision-making what's important to
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understand about that um is really two
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factors first um the definition includes
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this aspect of lend
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not limitation and often times there's
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an already listening when as soon as you
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say gender that people feel like oh
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you're excluding men this is not an
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exclusion it is a lens and not a
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limitation a lens is like a pair of
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glasses right through my glasses I'm
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going to see some things that otherwise
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if I didn't have them on I would miss
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yeah that's a really great point about
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how your your glass prescription is
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going to have a different one than my
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contact prescription we've got different
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lenses can you give us a couple examples
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about how that might play out in real
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world scenarios yeah absolutely um some
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investors for instance Sandy will say
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that they're really interested in
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getting women access to Capital and that
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may be women micro entrepreneurs in an
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emerging market or in a domestic
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situation here in the US might be women
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film directors it might be women hedge
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fund managers but they've realized that
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there are women who have less access to
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Capital than men and that's the lens
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that they use other investors use a lens
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where they look across the value chain
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of a company and they say how do I
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evaluate this company from the board
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through its Senior Management through
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the way that it's working within its
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organization to the supply chain and
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understand the way that they're valuing
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women and men equally in their
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organization still other investors are
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really looking at that product and
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service and how is it that if this
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company was wildly successful given what
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it does how would that
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change gender equality in its markets
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right does it have a product that's
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going to solve a challenge for women
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like women's safety um has it thought
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about gendered knowledge um there's
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really interesting research now on the
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way that software is designed and how
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software design has been predominantly
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for male patterns of problem solving wow
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and so thinking about how you could e
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bias software design could open up a
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whole set of new product offerings sure
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so those are very very different lenses
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and they all overlap and none of them
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are better than others in general what
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happens is I have an expertise I have an
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experience I have a theory of change and
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that creates my lenses yeah and what I
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love about that example or those
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examples thinking about the lenses is
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that it empowers everyone to have a
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voice whatever your experience you've
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got a unique lens that you're coming to
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this space and it sounds like there's no
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wrong way to ask those questions I've
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heard often in the space um folks will
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say well is it a sector like energy or
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in or you know education but it's really
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not it's a lens over all sectors so tell
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us a little bit more about why that's so
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important you're you're absolutely right
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right all Investments have impact as you
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probably often say all Investments have
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gendered impact exactly and so gender
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lens investing crosses all sectors it
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crosses all asset classes um and people
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use lenses in different ways so it's
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also important to understand that my
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gender lens might not be the same as
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yours um so it why it's important is
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because we're starting to realize that
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so much of the way that we allocate
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capital is gendered and so when we can
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be aware of that we can be aware of our
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biases we can be aware of the
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opportunities we can make much better
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investment decisions absolutely and
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that's a great case for gender lens
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investing why is it important to Bank of
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America Maryland us
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trust so it is important because we're
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looking as our all investors to make the
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best investment decisions and so having
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additional information about an
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investment um whether that be the role
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of women within the company whether that
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be the way that the company is attacking
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potential important markets whether that
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be the Safety and Security of the
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products that it's creating all of those
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factors gender has a part to play in um
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so that's important to us it's also
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important because it's important to our
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clients right so increasingly as many of
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your readers
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know clients are asking about the
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environmental and social impact of their
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Investments our research is that 58% of
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high- net worth individuals say that
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that's important to them interestingly
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50% more women say that than men so we
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don't think that gender lens inv
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investing is Investing For Women it's
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investing for smart investors that said
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research does show that women are more
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likely to start asking these questions
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to say what is the impact of my
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portfolio on women and girls and also
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how is it that my portfolio is taking
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advantage of fully diverse organizations
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and the power they bring yeah and I'm
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curious about another demographic group
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that is emerging of particular
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importance and interest to the financial
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services industry which is the
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millennial group who is inherit in
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something around $40 trillion in this
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Boomer wealth transfer that's just begun
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to happen and will be happening for the
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next few decades talk to us about what
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you see from that audience and how you
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see gender lens as a part of their
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priorities and experience yeah so that
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audience to your point has a completely
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different worldview right when we ask
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them about do the social environmental
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impacts of your portfolio matter 93% of
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them said yes 93 93% so they're sort of
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saying why are asking us this question
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right almost rhetorical almost
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rhetorical exactly um and their view is
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that they're looking for equality right
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they want to um work in organizations
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that have um diverse management teams
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they want to buy from products that
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reflect their identity and increasingly
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their identity is one of community and
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us doing things together and so forth um
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they want to make the world a better
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place and they have understood and and
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some of this is research right the
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research of the time shows
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that countries that are more inclusive
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in terms of women's labor force
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participation in terms of women's access
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to legal rights have higher GDP growth
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over time right so that this is in the
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Zeitgeist of the time but they're also
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hearing things like Melinda Gates saying
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well wait a second women do do more
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unpaid work than men girls do more
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unpaid chores than boys and they're
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saying hm this isn't the world I want to
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live in I want to live in a true
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meritocracy and and it's particularly
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interesting you've heard this sandwich
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generation term for um individuals and
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and Partnerships that will be managing
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both child care and Elder Care at the
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same time so you sort of double hit the
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women who are doing that unpaid work so
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I understand why it's a a huge issue so
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we're painting a really positive picture
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for why gender lens investing matters
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and why it's so important what's what
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are the challenges if I can be a
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pessimist for a moment just a moment
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what are the challenges that are facing
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the space that are um prohibiting it
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from growing more quickly so partly I
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would say um there's a lack of
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understanding of what it actually is
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Right often times people think gender
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lens investing is um small soft and pink
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ah yes right so it's small Investments
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maybe a loan to a low-income woman to
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become an entrepreneur it's soft meaning
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it's not research-based and it's pink
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meaning it's just about women it's not
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actually about gender and the role that
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men and women play in society and so
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when we shift out of that bias we can
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understand what happens when say
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calsters starts working with State
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Street Global advisors and creates an
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ETF called shei and they move you know a
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half a billion dollars under both the
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ETF and the exchange the indices so
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there's yeah there's nothing smaller
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soft about sof about that right but part
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of it is the bias second factor is the
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data so the data is
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challenging um there's not enough of it
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it's not Apples to Apples across
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countries and across companies now
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you're starting to see companies being
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more revealing about the role of
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diversity across their ranks around
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questions like pay equity and so forth
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you're seeing organizations like data
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2.x really look at driving
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more consistent gender data across
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countries and the sustainable
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development goals are going to push that
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forward as well because as we look at
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those and how gender is both a separate
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called out gender equality sustainable
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development goal and integrated
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throughout the other 17 goals you need
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measurement for that yes it's a lens
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throughout those other goals right
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exactly um what can someone do uh you
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know we often talk about and you and I
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have talked about how less people than
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are actually investors consider
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themselves investors right how we are
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all investors in the products and
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services we're buying we're supporting
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and how we manage our Capital what can
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someone do um if if they are curious
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about advancing the conversation around
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gender lens
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investing it's true that we tend to
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think of investors as has a small few
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talking headss on CNN M very wealthy
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ones exactly and those investors are are
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powerful and important but all of us
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have an opportunity to be curious about
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this and to ask questions and so if you
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ask questions of your investment advisor
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in terms of how a gender lens might be
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implemented in your portfolio that
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starts a conversation that is between
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the two of you but also between your
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investment advisor and their firm um and
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the same is true for any board that you
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serve on for any organization all of the
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questions around how are we inclusively
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using the talents of men and women as we
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do our work lead to Opportunities
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excellent and what are some um
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opportunities for advancement of the
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space What are some areas where you
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think a research institution like
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Wharton can play a role in advancing
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gender lens
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investing so I think there's a lot of
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research to be done around perceptions
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and communication as we've talked about
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it's very easy for people to get
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confused and to think genderland
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investing is just about investing in
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women entrepreneurs um and while
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investing in women entrepreneurs is
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important and women's access to Capital
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is critical there are other factors in
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terms of how men and women play roles
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throughout a a company in terms of the
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product and research um there's
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fascinating work being done in terms of
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the way that knowledge is gendered um so
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to the uh Title Here Right this question
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of what kind of data is an organization
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Gathering and how does that determine
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the products and services that they are
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creating so um lots of opportunities
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there um in in terms of how do we get
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that
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complexity into something called gender
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lens investing yeah I think there's
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great research around um the financial
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performance
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there's great research to be done around
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impact um and how the role of gender
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lens investors can drive impact um and
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then the the research that I'm most
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interested in is potentially the
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intersection of those right the flywheel
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that happens when gender lens work
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creates more impact which then creates
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better Financial returns let's move to a
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success story Jackie can you give us an
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example of something that has been
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particularly inspiring or exciting to
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you emerging in the gender lens
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investing space absolutely there's a lot
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it's hard to pick but I will say um one
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of my favorite examples of gender
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capitalism which is the the term that
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Sarah Kaplan and I use to explain the
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converging of those who traditionally
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were on the gender lens philanthropy
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side with those that were more
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traditionally just straight investors
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coming together to see the power of AG
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gender lens um to drive forward both
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objectives is the partnership between us
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trust and the women's Foundation of
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California where we came together to use
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the Deep gendered knowledge of the
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women's Foundation of California and the
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investment um Acumen of us trust to put
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together a investment fund we call the
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women and girls equality strategy it's a
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us all cap equity and fixed income
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strategy and what we do there is enable
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the woms foundation of California but
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other investors to invest in those
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companies that are thoughtfully engaging
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women as consumers as employees As
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Leaders of global change right how do we
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look across the entire value chain of a
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company and say how is it that they're
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harnessing um all of their Workforce and
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being thoughtful the thing that is the
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success story here is not just that it
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was launched but that at the three-year
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track record it's outperforming its
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Benchmark um and that it's now available
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you know more broadly Beyond us trust at
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maril Lynch um that there's a whole set
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of other investment opportunities in
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this space that are similar but that's
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the kind of model that I think is
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interesting where you take deep gender
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knowledge deep investment knowledge and
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you merge them excellent and as you look
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at that example and and you see it
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success is unfold I've heard you talk a
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lot about moving from counting to
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valuing women how did you measure SU ESS
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and what did you look at to determine um
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what would what you would do to consider
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this investment vehicle uh something
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that you wanted to grow in
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replicate so part of the question is um
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how is it generating change in the field
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and as we have more and more investment
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vehicles in the public debt and Equity
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space questions get asked um and so
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these vehicles are less about direct
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change and more about systemic change in
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the field um so I think the level of
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conversation around genderland investing
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which has happened because these
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Investments have been successful is
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really important this is such an
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exciting space and we love that we have
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a chance to work with great thought
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leaders like yourself in it we encourage
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all of our viewers and listeners of
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course to check out our website and
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follow along with the blogs and research
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and stories that we're putting out
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Jackie what else would you recommend
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readers and viewers look at to learn
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more about this space I've heard of a
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book coming out that might be of some
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interest it is true um in the fall we
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will have a book I've co-authored a book
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with Joe quinland who is our chief uh
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Market strategist at us Trust Bank of
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America um called gender lens investing
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so it'll be out in the fall and that's a
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great place to start there are lots of
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other great places though I would really
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suggest that viewers sign up for the
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blogs that Wharton puts out because your
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work on jeder lens investing is fabulous
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um there's a new community globally
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called women effect Investments that has
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a great resource list um on it it
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includes some of the best reports that
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have been written some of the research
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um bases so that's another place to
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start well thank you so much for your
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time today Jackie I've enjoyed talking
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with you and I'm sure our viewers and
00:16:49
readers will enjoy learning more about
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the gender lens investing space I look
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forward to being back here with you in a
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couple years when we can talk about many
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more success stories in the gender lens
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investing space thanks for being with us
00:17:12
[Music]
