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this podcast is brought to you by knowledge of Wharton [Music] hello my name is Stephanie creary and
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I'm an assistant professor of management at the Wharton School of the University
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of Pennsylvania and I'm delighted to welcome you to today's episode of the
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knowledge at Wharton leading diversity at work podcast series which is focused on Reproductive Rights and the impact on
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education and the workforce joining me today are three very special guests first we have Professor Bobby
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Thomason who is assistant professor of Applied Behavioral Science at graziadio business school Pepperdine University in
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California prior to that Bobby was a postdoctoral fellow at the war in school her research explores how individuals of
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traditionally underrepresented social categories at work um pursue their careers globally and
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work in the workplace she is particularly interested in how individuals overcome inequality and
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social hierarchies in order to attain career rewards and resources part of her research agenda focuses on how women
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overcome professional barriers to their career Ascension Bobby has worked in Conflict Management Consulting and as a
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research associate at Harvard Business School and the Harvard Kennedy School she also was the international research
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a fellow for Cheryl sandberg's book lean in women work and the will to lead and
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to the book option b facing adversity building resilience and finding Joy she's also a contributor to the lean in
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foundation and recently along with a number of business school professors from around the world Bobby published an
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article in the MIT Sloan management review which was focused on and entitled how organizations can take a lead in
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productive protecting Reproductive Rights next we have mega Bonsall Rizzoli who is director of employer mobilization
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at jobs for the future and an Alum of the Wharton MBA program Mega has over 15 years of experience working in strategy
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and Innovation she started her career working for the federal government dabble in research and analytics at the
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Brookings institution and she spent close to a decade working in Consulting at monitor Deloitte where she focused on
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how large-scale disruptive Trends impact organizations communities and people Mega was also a fellow at the world
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economic Forum where she launched a major research initiative and publication at the 50th WF annual
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meeting in Davos in 2020. at jobs for the future Mega Drive strategy thought leadership and high impact initiatives
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focused on transforming policies and practices building capacities and driving behavior change of private
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sector employers and employer coalitions and associations towards Equitable economic advancement for all
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Mega's published thought leadership and guidance to employers on how best to
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respond to the Supreme Court decision that ended up overturning Roe v Wade and into she provided the thought leadership
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prior to the decision she's also shared these insights and others in both the
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popular press and at this year's South by Southwest edu conference and last we have Jen Stark who is
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co-director at the center for business and social justice at business for social responsibility she's been working
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for over the past year to prepare companies for the fall of row by addressing the workforce impact and
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identifying meaningful ways they can respond including advocacy data privacy risk mitigation and corporate political
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giving alignment prior to be to joining BSR gen directed Investments at the Terra Health Foundation to drive
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Behavior change among private sector employers on gender and racial Equity including historic progress on Paid
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Family and Medical Leave reproductive health and other workplace protections before working in philanthropy she
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founded the corporate relations program at Planned Parenthood Federation of America to unlock advocacy Grant making
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and employee support to preserve access to reproductive Healthcare Nationwide while at Planned Parenthood excuse me
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well at Planned Parenthood Jen also helped launch don't ban equality a national platform for businesses that
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reinforces abortion as a Workforce and economic issue so it goes without saying we have quite an accomplished group of
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panelists today for our leading diversity at work podcast welcome Bobby Mega and Jen I'm so delighted and
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honored to have you here with me today with us for what I hope will be a very interesting and provocative conversation
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about Reproductive Rights and the impact they are having have had will continue to have on education and the workforce
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so I would love to start us off by talking about the June 22 2022 Dobbs versus Jackson Women's Health
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Organization decision so this is the decision that overturned last year Roe v Wade and I want to just give ourselves
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our audience more of a sense of how you entered this conversation where you sit in this conversation and what your work
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is uh in related enriched this topic so Bobby let's start with you and how and
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why did you become involved in this topic focused on Reproductive Rights and organizations
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um the necessity for organizations to take it up and can you summarize some of the main parts of the MIT slow
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management review article I referenced earlier gladly thank you so much Stephanie for
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having us here and hosting this conversation which I think is only increasingly relevant in the world today
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so as you highly introduced I broadly study inequality at work and I'm very focused on the experiences of women to
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do that research I generally do inductive work so I will open with a broad-ended question about how and the
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principle of the work that I'm really trained in doing is to follow the data
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and one thing that keeps emerging from the data over more than a decade of my work is the ways in which life outside
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of work fundamentally shapes women's careers within organizations and I think
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as professionals uh ourselves and in the audience it it probably is just a given that in the midst of our
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careers life is happening um and so unsurprisingly for women children caregiving marriage uh these
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things really fundamentally shape their career so just as an example we find that uh research on the gender gap
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in earnings and Leadership is really a function of the fact that women and men have different career paths and women
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end up making choices as a result of the context in their families and their organizations where they pursue
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different paths and this really shapes their earnings so given the findings on just Parenthood and pregnancy it
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um the research on abortion access is also quite Stark that when individuals with
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uteruses do not have access to abortions they are more likely to be out of the workforce six months after that care is
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denied um and in the long term are more likely to end up in economically precarious
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situations and raising children in poverty so as a scholar the evidence on the connection between abortion rights
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Reproductive Rights and work is just um very fundamental so when the decision came out last June it was
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striking both as a scholar aware of the evidence and the consequences of of reproductive and abortion care
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and it also felt personal it was something that I worried what did this mean for the safety of myself for the
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people I care about for I have a young daughter what what is our country going to look like for her and the choices
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that she's going to be able to make so I had tweeted you know what can we do
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as management Scholars at this moment with a particular tools that we have and that led to multiple conversations
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with other faculty other Scholars and the first step was actually realizing that our own professional association
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hosts conferences that rotate around the U.S and we realized that in the past this had been in states where abortion
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access was now either illegal or severely limited and we got together and wrote a petition
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that over 500 management Scholars signed asking our association to not hold agree
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to not hold conferences in those States and ultimately our professional association did not support our petition
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and while that was quite disappointing the process of putting that petition together
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gave us a chance to think about what do we what do we want our own organization to be doing what could other
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organizations be doing and so collectively we wrote this article for MIT sloanmanagement review documenting
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the very clear consequences for employment and economic security when abortion access is denied and we specifically
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outlined five things that organizations could do for their employees in the wake
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of the Dobbs decision the first was to allow for remote work and locations flexibility suddenly the health care
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that individuals can access change dramatically and we really encouraged companies let your employees and workers
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make choices for themselves about where they are going to be safe second to support employees in accessing
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reproductive care this was a move that we did see a lot of organizations saying in the wake of Dobbs we will help pay if
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you need to travel to access abortion care the third thing we talked about was partnering with organizations that are
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experts in providing this care so this is something we see a lot of progressive companies doing around Family Planning
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and pregnancy and there are indeed organizations um like hey Jane and just the pill that
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are experts in supporting abortion care and that organizations can partner with because this is not expertise at every
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every company has the fourth thing and very poignant to us was to be careful about where you are holding your
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organizational events and conferences big conferences are professional development opportunities they are where
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people are seeing um senior folks in the organization that have control over promotions and key
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opportunities and when a predictable fraction and segment of your Workforce is not going to be safe attending those
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events you you're marginalizing and perpetuating inequalities and so we really felt very strongly and that felt
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personal about thinking about where are you going to have promotable career consequential events and the fifth thing
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was that we reminded organizations to be really careful to align where your money is going with the
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values you're purporting so we saw after the Dobbs decision lots of organizations
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were speaking in support um and many of them were also lobbying organization lobbying politicians
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that were supporting legislation that went specifically against those words so it also is really an opportunity for
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organizations to think about being consistent thank you so much Bobby I remember so
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Bobby and I belong to the same Professional Organization so I've watched all of this unfold and you know
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I remember when you all posted to our group um chat uh that uh the association had
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not been supportive but you know something that I think was helpful to me I didn't I think admittedly when we
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started talking about where the conference should be held I I didn't make all of the links
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um as to sort of like why that would be a problem outside of the values right but we all have different values you
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know some people are in our organization Association our pro-choice and some are
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pro-life and so it wasn't really about that it wasn't about declaring us as you
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know a pro-choice organization and so don't hold conferences in places like it
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wasn't that it was the one part of what I think it was in one of the various
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pieces that you all wrote whether it was to the group or to publicly it was understanding that you know conditions
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under which someone might need access to abortion care and one of those that really resonated
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with me was um you know at various stages of of a pregnancy the pregnancy May no longer be viable right and this
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may be a wanted and desired pregnancy and the answer to that pregnancy becomes abortion like that's the only option and
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so if that happens to you and you're in one of these states um you will have have a hard time
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accessing that care that you need for this pregnancy that you probably did want but is no longer viable that to me
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sounded really um also interesting and important and I felt like that could even resonate with people who are
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pro-life is as like this is it is a danger to the to the person with the uterus um to to keep that pregnancy like it's a
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life or definite matter to them and then if you're in a state that um says that this is not something that
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we provide now your life is truly in danger were there other examples um that you can speak to that I think
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would help people who protect perhaps um are more along the lines of you know I don't know why abortion it matters to
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a conversation about where we hold conferences that I didn't already explicate that was the one that stood
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out to me as perhaps helping some people find Clarity around the importance of this issue
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well yes exactly I mean I think you're raising a critical point which is a lot
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of us in writing the article wrote from the perspective as mothers or along the way of our journey to being mothers
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um and I think it can't be emphasized enough that what has been curtailed in the wake of this
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legislation are medical procedures that are also necessary for people who desperately and happily want to become
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parents but depending on how a pregnancy goes a DNC which is now a procedure that
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um will be considered an abortion and is uh illegal by punishable as a felony in
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in states in the country now is what is necessary in the case of a pregnancy not
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becoming viable and so I have had uh even friends talk about having um a a miscarriage while traveling and
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thinking about what does that look like today um suddenly we're making questions about
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you know thinking through are we going to be safe and um I think we'll continue to talk about
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this in our conversation but we're seeing you know doctors are really being constrained in what they can do and this
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is leading to doctors leaving States uh hospitals I mean just this week in the news hospital is closing their
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maternity Awards because they cannot safely deliver babies anymore um it it the ripple effect of this
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this decision is really quite wide thank you so much Bobby let me turn to you Mega can you share it with us a little
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bit about the work that you've been doing in this area as well so so as I mentioned when when I introduced you is
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that you know Mega is an Alum of the Wharton School she actually was also in my first uh leading diversity
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um in organizations class that I taught at war end back in 2017 or 2018 you're in the class I can't
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remember now but um interestingly Meg and I have had a number of different contexts over the
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years certainly initiated by you or you've invited me to be part of things that you're doing and one of the things
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that you recently invited me to be part of was a panel that you put together for
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South by Southwest edu we talked about many of these issues and topics I actually Bobby referred to your article
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and some of the insights from your article during this topic but so can you share a little bit more about that and
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other activities Mega that you've been involved in with respect to this the topic of Reproductive Rights yes
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Stephanie thank you um and thank you for having me uh my work at jobs for the future really
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focuses on unlocking the potential of the private sector to drive Equitable economic advancement for all and Bobby
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as you've just laid out I mean when we think about Reproductive Rights and abortion care and as we've seen this
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play out this is a huge issue around economic mobility and a huge issue for employers
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um the stats are incredible right and you highlighted some of them too Bobby I mean one in four working women will have
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an abortion in their lifetime and as you mentioned women who do not have access to abortion care are three times more
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likely to leave the workforce and four times more likely to have a household income below the federal poverty line
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not to mention sort of the economic impacts on state so State abortion laws are costing over a hundred billion
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dollars annually in reduced labor force participation and productivity and reduced earnings so last year when this
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was the one the decision was leaked you know at JF at jobs future jff we knew we
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needed to do and say something about it and so in response to that my organization we first quickly organized
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to adapt our own benefits and policies to support the preservation of Reproductive Rights for our employees no
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matter where they live we work in all 50 States including travel benefits Flex time off and a number of other things we
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also quickly organized our own call to action for employers to do more to support Reproductive Rights Beyond just
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the travel benefits that so many have now started providing so extending benefits plans going Beyond this to talk
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about time off flexibility Child Care checking in on employees psychological safety and creating spaces for that
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dialogue and you know among other things examining corporate policies around political donations and sort of how
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you're aligning values and a lot of the work that we outlined Bobby matches up
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quite nicely was sort of what the call to action that you also had that this is really about how employers can be
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supporting employee well-being job quality um so our our work really focuses on that we we think about and we do uh work
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on how to help employers become become good become better right and become more impactful
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um in prioritizing employee well-being and job quality um we view this as a critical component of that
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um I will also say on the personal front uh I you know I'm going to tear up here
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because I was you know three months pregnant when this decision came out and found out we were having a baby girl on
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the day that this decision was leaked and so this was incredibly personal for me as I thought about what this was
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going to mean for the future of my my little girl's life right and and the decisions and the country she was going
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to grow up in she's six months old now so everything is is great um but I view this as a little bit of of
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my dedication to her right and the life and the and the country I want her to live in so it was very personal for me
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too and everything you shared about being a working mother right now and thinking about how these issues play out
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on the personal and the work front um it's just very core to to my motivation and passion around this as
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well so thank you Mega let's turn to you Jen welcome I would love to hear more about
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the work that you've been doing in this area which has certainly been quite um extensive
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um and I would say intentional as well so can you share with us uh what you've
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been doing yeah I just want to reiterate thanks again for creating a space for this
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conversation and for the team at at knowledge at Wharton for for recognizing abortion as a Workforce and an economic
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issue if I could you know go back 50 years and wave a magic wand I would make abortion as much about economic
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empowerment and economic Justice is anything else um I think it's also important
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um as I share a bit more about how I approach the work just to level set currently that abortions now banned in
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14 States following the overturn of Roe a year nearly a year ago these states are mostly in the Southeast and Deep
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South uh in many states the fight over abortion access is still taking place in courtrooms Daily uh while other states
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have moved um to expand and protect access to abortion so all that said I was among
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the founders of the don't ban equal platform back in 2019 and what was then a historic spike in state level abortion
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restrictions companies were calling leading reproductive health organizations like Planned Parenthood
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ACLU Center for Reproductive Rights neural pro-choice America to understand the impact of abortion bans at the time
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in Georgia and in the Midwest and struggling to find ways to talk about it so don't manage quality is now a
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coalition of more than 800 businesses from large to small making the case that policies that restrict reproductive
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Health Care are bad for business and don't pay inequality was actually just recognized by Fast Company
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um among the world-changing ideas and you know as everyone said so far access to abortion care impacts business
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operations workplace benefits Workforce health and safety Talent mobility and it's important also to underscore that
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access to abortion is supported by 75 percent of Americans believe reproductive Health Care decisions
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should be between patients and providers and the majority of residents in 43 States say abortion should be legal and
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this is playing out in states where we've seen ballot measures like Michigan
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Kentucky and Kansas and so from where I sit now at BSR at 30 plus year old organization that works with business
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particularly large companies on a range of issues across the globe we've been
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preparing business to respond to the fall of row and I've been telling them that this is just the end of the
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beginning so we've helped companies understand this for what it is this is an ongoing
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slow-moving Public Health crisis that you know leaves companies as as a firewall whether they want to be or not
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when it comes to their workers accessing abortion care absolutely absolutely um this conversation's already been Rich
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so far uh and what we're gonna do from here is is continue to Pat unpack a lot
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of what you were saying maybe I'm gonna go Mega I'm gonna go back to you
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um so the mission of jff jobs for the future which is your employer is to drive transformation of the American
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Workforce and education systems to achieve Equitable economic advancement for us that's a stated mission on the
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website um but I think it might be hard for some people to automatically link a conversation about Reproductive Rights
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in the Dobbs decision to that mission so can you connect the dots for us a little
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bit more yeah absolutely um so I'll repeat it again so as you said our mission is around achieving
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Equitable economic advancement for all and the truth of the matter is that for for women and and particularly women
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working in low-wage jobs and women of color this access can mean the difference between I mean economic
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insecurity and economic advancement and the choice to participate in the workforce often unfortunately comes down
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to issues of Access to Health Care and child care in this country and the data backs us up
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um I remember there was a survey last year I think from from Courts at work that found that 40 of women who sought
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abortion cited financial reasons as a factor so huge socio socioeconomic concerns the driver of decisions to
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participate in the labor force not to mention uh when you consider things like the time and money required to cross
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state lines for medical services and the disproportionate effect that this has on
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communities of color who you know for due to many structural reasons often may have inadequate health coverage and
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insurance that could be contributing to unplanned pregnancies um so it's a critical issue for
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Equitable economic advancement and a critical issue in which employers have a huge role as we've started to talk about
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this also you know two-thirds of college-educated workers said that they wouldn't take a job in a state that had
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an abortion ban and almost half said they would move if the state was rolling things out and this was over a year ago
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and I'm curious to see now how that actually has played out right and it goes beyond employers so if those
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planning to enroll in an undergrad program 39 said that the overturn was a factor in their decision to attend or
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stay in school so I'll pause here but for me that's massive right you think about the the
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ramifications of this on education and on Workforce um it it's it's very hard to deny the
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linkage there and I think when you play this out a couple years you play this out choices around where to go to school
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if to go to school where to live they have just huge economic impact so um that's sort of the linkages we see it
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both in terms of the economic advancement and the role that employers really can be doing to mitigating the
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um the Fallout from this decision yeah very compelling I don't know if you if
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your organization or any organizations that you know are actually doing research to track this over time we all
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know I mean here at the Wharton School as well as many of our institutions these days right it's like what's the
00:27:46
day to say and you all have done such a fantastic job of giving us the data in addition to sort of your broad insights
00:27:53
on these topics as well and your perspectives I think what will be especially compelling important over
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time is that we have this longitudinal understanding of of how not just one year later what the implications are but
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but the larger Fallout because these become the basis for you know other legislative opportunities and changes as
00:28:14
well so Jen continuing this theme I can imagine that businesses and employers more broadly might be struggling uh to
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understand their place in this conversation about Reproductive Rights I mean I think we all know in many of the
00:28:28
people who are listening to this podcast understand that you know businesses always had somewhat of a tense or
00:28:35
precarious understanding of its relationship to broader societal issues and concerns
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um we also know and I also experience this personally and professionally that when the decision came out there weren't
00:28:50
a lot immediately of employers who wanted to get on camera or to be recorded saying what they were doing on
00:28:57
this topic so to the extent that Reproductive Rights felt especially taboo I know that was felt um I know
00:29:04
even myself as a diversity scholar I was trying to figure out like what is the right way to talk about this
00:29:10
conversation and how does this relate to the topics I normally talk about around
00:29:14
diversity and so you know I've used opportunities to engage with you know people who who have your backgrounds and
00:29:20
some of you individually to to upskill myself that said I can imagine Jen that there are still businesses and employers
00:29:28
who are still struggling to understand their place in this conversation so how have you been helping them to make sense
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of their roles and responsibilities on this top I think that is um the the the Cornerstone question here
00:29:43
Stephanie and um I appreciate all the the the um research and stats that um Bobby and
00:29:50
Mega have brought in so far if if I had to put it you know on a bumper sticker for business right now I'd say the
00:29:56
sidelines are no longer the middle ground uh this issue is literally showing up on the doorsteps of companies
00:30:05
um you know nearly 60 percent of women of reproductive health age live in a state hostile to abortion access
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and as mentioned the Institute for Women's policy research citing um the existing costs of restrictions in
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terms of Labor Force impact and earnings is conservatively over 100 billion dollars annually and new research will
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be coming out in the coming weeks and now without Rose setting some kind of constitutional floor if you will
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um companies are having to mind what I'll call the quote-unquote collateral damage of abortion restrictions in a way
00:30:43
that we haven't that they haven't had to historically So speaking of data on BSR
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recently commissioned um some polling from morning consult that affirms and this is for the second
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year in a row and I appreciate the um the academic research expertise on this call as well and we'll continue to
00:31:03
do this so that we do start to get some longitudinal data This research affirms that by a two to one margin workers
00:31:10
across all demographics um educational levels income levels Etc want to live in a state where
00:31:18
abortion is legal and accessible folks already mentioned the new data coming out about prospective and current
00:31:25
college student preferences and I do think higher education is such an important economic driver in States and
00:31:32
I think part of the Hidden costs of State restrictions that folks I think will come to realize perhaps a bit late
00:31:38
and I think Bobby mentioned at the outset I think it was on PBS NewsHour a few days ago they did this incredibly
00:31:45
compelling segment on OB gyns in Idaho who are leaving the state in mass and hospitals are closing their maternity
00:31:53
Wards because of the state's abortion ban um and the ambiguity around what care
00:31:58
that they can provide one of the Physicians who left Idaho said something like do I have to wait till I need to
00:32:04
perform CPR do I have to wait till she bleeds out um there's little a company can do to
00:32:12
make up for a healthcare desert in a state without engaging in some of the structural issues so on that note I
00:32:19
think it was notable in Watershed um how companies are finding ways to speak out through industry groups like
00:32:26
how the biotech and pharmaceutical Association signed recent amicus briefs to the courts when a judge in Texas was
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willing to sort of throw chaos into the gold standard FDA regulatory process to enact his own agenda to try to ban one
00:32:42
of the drugs used in medication abortion in the U.S you know we are hearing about
00:32:47
companies considering travel policies that restrict hosting events in places where abortions illegal or where their
00:32:54
workers may be unsafe and unable to access emergency care if they need it I think increased restrictions are also
00:33:02
prompting new questions relevant in the long term to corporate site selection whether that's office location you know
00:33:11
warehousing other types of footprint business might have I do think site selection is the new quote-unquote
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boycott if you will um finally finally I think um companies are increasingly cognizant
00:33:29
um and actions are starting to be taken behind the scenes to minimize or at least consider the harm when it comes to
00:33:37
data collection and storage and I'm not talking just about tech companies also
00:33:42
financial service companies and REITs and retailers who need who realize they need to mind the
00:33:48
unintended consequences of the information they have on users and consumers in this Minefield of
00:33:54
state-by-state public policies where abortion may be you know illegal in one place illegal in another and you have
00:34:00
policies that seek to criminalize anyone who quote unquote AIDS in a bets and this isn't some you know dystopian novel
00:34:07
or movie this is you know the state of America in 2023 so I'd say companies are
00:34:13
um even if you don't even if there's not always the press release about a
00:34:17
particular company's stance or policy there's a lot going on behind the scenes
00:34:21
absolutely absolutely Bobby you've already covered some of this but I just want to give you the chance to to say
00:34:27
more um and then to begin to offer some recommendations we've spent some time
00:34:32
talking about like all the issues and the challenges but at first what I'd like to hear you share more about is is
00:34:39
you know this is this is a topic you know where it is important to you you said it personally it felt important
00:34:46
professionally it felt related to the research that you do on issues of gender and diversity broadly in the workplace
00:34:54
and how that affects careers and you're also an educator right you teach students in a higher education setting
00:35:01
would love to hear more about the the links that you draw to the meaningfulness of this topic to the to
00:35:07
the education setting and then if you want to begin to kick us off by offering what you see as as the way forward
00:35:14
um in the different spheres you touch that would be great sounds great so let me start off
00:35:20
addressing how I'm thinking about this as a scholar and an educator the first is that uh in the follow-up to
00:35:29
that MIT Sloan article several of us are working on empirical projects we clearly
00:35:36
as as a team of Scholars care about this issue and want to understand it more and
00:35:43
So based on some pre-testing and recent data we've collected what we're seeing
00:35:48
is that job Seekers care very much about having access to abortion and reproductive care
00:35:57
um so when we ask individuals to prioritize factors of a job abortion access is in the top few items and mega
00:36:07
mentioned this survey that came out a year ago showing that job Seekers don't
00:36:12
want to move to a state where abortion is legal or restricted so very consistent with those findings and we
00:36:21
are in the midst of ongoing data collection and so I I will look forward to having more to say as we further
00:36:28
unpack the data but for now I feel quite confident between the pre-testing I've been doing with my
00:36:36
collaborators and and surveys that have come out before that this really is something that job Seekers care about
00:36:42
and it is a priority to them as Stephanie mentioned I'm also an educator I have students that I talk to
00:36:53
about their career choices and even my past students it's been many years since
00:36:58
I was at Wharton but I keep in touch with those students and as I open saying I increasingly am thinking about the
00:37:06
ways in which life happens along the way of us pursuing our careers and so it is
00:37:12
something I have in recent years become very proactive in talking about with my students that I
00:37:21
really encourage them starting in the content of my class to think about what is the life you want to be leading
00:37:26
holistically what are you your values where do you find joy and how is that going to be
00:37:33
a part of the job and career decisions you make and so it's very sobering realizing in the past year that I am now
00:37:44
including in that conversation where are you going to feel safe where can you get
00:37:50
the health care that you need or by default where is your partner going to feel safe is this a place that they can
00:37:59
live with you and that is a conversation I am having with my you know with students with past students and with my
00:38:06
friends and peers this is not um the conversations with my students are frankly not that different from
00:38:12
conversations I have with friends and peers that I am watching multiple people move and take new positions because they
00:38:23
overnight the place that they lived was no longer safe for them and their family
00:38:27
yeah very sobering thank you for for your recommendations and I think for keeping it
00:38:33
um very close to home I think personally and professionally again because you and
00:38:37
I come from the same field and and we share the same background and we study similar things every time I hear you
00:38:44
talk it feels like you are talking straight to me and I'm sure other people listening will feel that as well so
00:38:50
thank you so much Bobby Mega let's turn to you when you think about all the spaces you touch what recommendations do
00:38:58
you have for the people in them so I I do want to highlight there's a bright spot here we have seen more work
00:39:08
and more I mean as Jen you laid out with don't be inequality 800 companies have
00:39:13
signed on it's just incredible work that you all are leading and doing and there's a lot of great momentum from
00:39:20
employers but I will say you know many workers aren't satisfied still right so
00:39:25
one month after after the decision less than 10 percent of companies had made a public statement and though many more
00:39:31
have taken action now there's a recent survey um from catalyst uh let's say 44 of their of workers want
00:39:40
to see their employers doing more to ensure abortion access and half of younger employees don't think their
00:39:46
companies are doing enough um and it goes so far to even characterize some employers responses as
00:39:52
performative on without real substance and those are not my words um necessarily but I guess my call to
00:39:59
action recommendation is to employers I mean you have to listen to your talent right listen to your
00:40:05
employees that Talent is is the driver of growth and Innovation um for companies and they want I mean
00:40:13
Bobby your research says it they want and deserve workplaces that prioritize their well-being and their psychological
00:40:20
and physical safety um the quality of their experiences the ability to advance and learn and develop
00:40:27
and grow and build careers that serve them holistically in all aspects of their life
00:40:33
so that would be a recommendation is you you have to turn inward this isn't about
00:40:37
a statement you put out um this isn't about you know a PR campaign this is about the work and the
00:40:45
work of making your workplace one that all employees can thrive in um and then you you talked about the
00:40:52
work that we touch and we also touch work with employees and I guess a call to action for employees would be
00:40:58
ask more right do you know you should be voicing your opinions and encouraging leadership to make changes and I love
00:41:04
seeing the data and the stats about how people are voting with their feet so to speak where they're going to go to
00:41:10
school where they're going to work it's troubling when you think about the
00:41:14
long-term impacts but it's also a mover for this and so of course there have to
00:41:20
be psychologically safe Avenues to do this in the workplace um but I think worker voice and
00:41:26
employees kind of using and and and using their voice to really Drive organizational behavior change is
00:41:33
critical especially at a time where we are only going to be seeing more and more
00:41:39
social and political issues colliding with business um so those would be two call to actions
00:41:44
listen to your employees use your voice they go really well together absolutely thank you Mega for for your
00:41:51
offering all of your your insights today and and for those um very concrete recommendations Jen will close out
00:41:59
recommendations with you what do you think when you from the standpoint of the employers who you work with or even
00:42:06
if you have recommendations for individual employees what do you think they should do more of or do differently
00:42:11
going forward yeah um I just want to touch back on on that on that last question really quick though when you
00:42:16
talk about other collateral damage and impact that employers and companies need to be cognizant of when access to
00:42:24
abortion and reproductive Health Care Providers go away or become severely restricted it also impacts the
00:42:33
availability of lgbtq inclusive care energy geography the availability of um of of IVF and artificial reproductive
00:42:43
Technologies so again there's all these secondary and tertiary sort of Fallout
00:42:48
that again folks I think are just beginning um to understand and that employers are
00:42:53
realizing that they're also left to to have to navigate as well um I I circling back to this question on
00:43:01
what employers need to do more of or do differently going forward there's not enough bus plane or train
00:43:08
tickets um that a company can can help subsidize or provide uh to help workers get the
00:43:15
care that they need um even if they've you know done what they can to sort of pull that lever of
00:43:21
toggling toggling their benefits and maybe are trying to mind are there are they offering their benefits in you know
00:43:27
the most inclusive inclusive and accessible way um it's long overdue and circling back
00:43:33
to something that Bobby said at the outset it's long overdue that companies align their corporate political giving
00:43:39
with other stated commitments as well as operational risks so you know the collateral damage of supporting elected
00:43:46
officials hell-bent on Banning abortion just doesn't make sense and is is bad
00:43:52
for State business climates um it's interesting to note that after environment and climate concerns
00:43:58
political giving alignment had the second most shareholder resolutions so far this proxy season so there's a proof
00:44:06
point that investors are concerned about the risks operational reputational and Beyond as well I'll call it Ria Ventures
00:44:14
is leading some important investor engagement work in the space Also there's
00:44:20
um uh some data points that you know it's two-thirds of college-educated workers say contributions to candidates
00:44:27
uh or elected officials who support Banning abortion would make them feel less positively about their company if
00:44:35
their company where it was contributing to these elected officials and and they and they understood understood that and
00:44:40
that information was readily available to them um so I just thought that was an interesting data point and really also
00:44:45
kind of brings back to the point Mega raised about how it's it's a combination
00:44:50
of um of employers and and worker voice that um you know needs to hit a critical
00:44:57
mass here to bring about the structural change that we need absolutely well this
00:45:02
has certainly been I think for me a very um inspiring conversation on many levels
00:45:07
and I think what I find inspiring about it is the work that you all are doing um and that the work that you're doing
00:45:13
is is not only data driven but it's it's it's it's real and authentic and it's
00:45:18
based on sort of people's lived daily experiences and stories that we can all
00:45:23
get behind I find you know as a scientist and as an educator is you know people come to understand
00:45:31
um issues and topics and whether or not they should jump into it or jump out of them based on our ability to uh appeal
00:45:37
to to their senses and so we know that some people need the facts and the figures and you all have done an amazing
00:45:44
job just helping us understand the magnitude of the problem but also the opportunity here but I think also people
00:45:52
need to see themselves in it right see what how this might affect them personally and so I just want to thank
00:45:58
you for offering what I feel is a very balanced perspective data wise both with numbers and in both in terms of
00:46:05
qualitative stories on this topic uh so thank you Bobby Mega and Jen for joining
00:46:10
us today thanks for sharing all of your insights and your expertise I truly truly appreciate you for being here with
00:46:16
me in conversation and I want to thank all of our listeners for joining us and for listening to this episode of the
00:46:22
knowledge at Wharton leading diversity at what work podcast series goodbye for now
00:46:29
for more insight from knowledge of Wharton please visit knowledge.worton.upen.edu
00:46:35
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