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[Music]
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[Music]
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we're here today with Andrew mure
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executive director of the Wilderness
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Foundation Andrew thanks so much for
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being with us today great well thank you
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for having me um first of all we just
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want to talk to you a little bit about
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how did you become interested in this
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field and how did you initially get
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connected with the Wilderness Foundation
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well um obviously as a young boy growing
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up I had a great love for the outdoors I
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don't think you can live in Africa and
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not be moved by the Landscapes and the
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Animals the wildlife and so that was my
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initial attraction and then as time went
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on I also also begun to realize that
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perhaps this medium the um uh the
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platform of of wildlife and nature and
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our our reserves and and uh the
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protected areas that we have that it
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could also be a place where we can bring
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people from different backgrounds
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different walks of life and perhaps even
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make a difference to some of the Social
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Challenges that uh we have as a country
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a continent and even as the globe mhm
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and you were mentored by Wilderness
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Foundation founder Dr Ian player for 13
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years before taking on the executive
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director role what were the most
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important things that you learned from
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his example or learn from
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him um he is an extraordinary human
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being and and I think that the important
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part about a mentor is to really uh be
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prepared to to really have a deep and uh
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um honest relationship with your MN
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people seem to uh not always um bear in
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mind that a mentorship is a two-way
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process it's not just um a one-way
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process and um Ian was so easy about it
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he uh he he was very um open to Bear all
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and uh I learned a lot through through
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areas where he had made mistakes as much
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as I learned from his greatness I mean
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he's one of the world leaders in
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conservation he's very much the John M
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of the modern time globally um he saved
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the White Rhino from Extinction and yet
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he has this ability to be incredibly
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human so I leared a huge amount through
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his humanness and uh uh that I think uh
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tells you a lot about the men MH now
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what would your advice be I mean Mentor
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finding a mentor seems to be sort of
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some of the top advice that is given to
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I mean young people or really anyone
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today in terms of getting getting the
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career you want or moving forward with
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the career that you want I mean what
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would your advice be to people in terms
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of finding the right Mentor finding the
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right match and just seeking out people
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who maybe you would like to Mentor you
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well first of all all the programs that
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I've started and begun I encourage the
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mentorship uh in all the programs that
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we have I don't think you can ever be
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too young or too old uh to have the
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mentorship I think we should see it as a
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a value added and as a huge positive and
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and a plus there's just absolutely no
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negativity in it at all um so what I
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would advise with finding a mentor is
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you really want someone who you uh have
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respectful uh that's important it's
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critical that there's a natural respect
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between the mentor and and the mentee
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trust is is earned you don't necessarily
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know immediately whether that trust
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relationship would be there but I think
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if you respect the individual it's it's
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fairly natural that trust will follow um
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and really the uh the chemistry that
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exists between the two really creates
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the depth of the mentorship and the
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impact that it will have mentors need to
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have the time uh it is a commitment uh
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it's not just something you can commit
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to easily you you need to have um a
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fairly descriptive um understanding
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between the two parties of what the the
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process will be what your goals are
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going to be how often you're going to
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meet and then before you begin the
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mentorship both parties need to agree to
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the the commitment the whole um facet of
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mentorship it's not a onewe process I
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would encourage at least a year
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commitment by both parties and then it
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can only be a positive um often life
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changing
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event now um getting back to the
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Wilderness Foundation what has been the
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philosophy I mean the group's the
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mission has really evolved over the
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years to you know going from
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conservation and expanding to include
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initiatives related to Youth and
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education programs and leadership
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programs I me what is the philosophy
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behind expanding the mission and how do
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you see all of these things as kind of
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fitting together what are the kind of
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the through lines that connect
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everything well I you know I just don't
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believe in the modern world that you can
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do a conservation uh particularly in
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Africa without taking into account all
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the aspects that are affecting Society
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at the time um environment is very about
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very much about people and environment
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is very much about the human impact on
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environmental issues so if you don't
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embrace your neighbors to the parks if
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you don't embrace your leaders of the
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future if you don't if you don't create
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custodian ship and ambassadors for the
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parks for wildlife for Rhino for
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whatever it is you're trying to protect
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as a so-called game Ranger how do you
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expect that one's going to
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protect these natural resources into the
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future so that's very much the
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philosopher uh the philosophy behind the
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Wilderness Foundation that we have to be
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about environment and people we need to
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bring the people element in in order to
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create custodians and ambassadors for
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the future so we need to create programs
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which are geared at the various
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interests and affected parties and
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groups that would would enable them to
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have the best possible understanding and
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impact with the environment that then
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would lead back to to what they do
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whether they're Farmers whether they
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Community people living on the outside
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of these reserves whether they are
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politicians or AC or academics the
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programs need to be Geared for the
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target market that you are talking to
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but our belief is that it really is uh
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this view of reach ing out to different
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leadership groups leaders are within
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your communities leaders are within your
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academics leaders are within your media
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your business your political and that is
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what we do we create programs that reach
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out to all these different Target groups
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that will give them a personal and
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direct experience with nature that is
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relevant to where they come from or what
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they do that they can then apply back
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into whatever business or um or work
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that they are involved in that's how we
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create a future I believe for the
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environment on this planet there's no
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point me talking to the converted that's
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easy it's easy for me to talk in front
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of a bunch of Greenies we can you have a
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good whiskey afterwards and we can all
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talk the same it's another thing trying
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to talk to a group that AR quite short
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about this environmental thing and about
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these issues that are facing us uh not
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just as a as a human species but also as
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a planet as a
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whole now how does your organization how
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do you identify and strategize for the
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different projects you take on and then
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what kind of measures do you use to
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determine whether something is to
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measure
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success that's that's a good question
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and and I think again one always needs
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to with these kind of questions
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understand and the context and the
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working environment So within South
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Africa it's a very Dynamic moving um um
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picture we have huge Social Challenges
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such as HIV AIDS and so obviously the
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first template with the planning is is
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we all develop programs around the
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current issues facing the country
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because that's where you're going to get
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attraction and that's where you're going
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to get support partnership funding and
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hopefully where where people will then
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take these programs seriously because
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they can be fairly easily mainstreamed
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um so that immediately means that your
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planning process uh uh has to be fairly
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dynamic because these issues are
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evolving the whole time um and uh and
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and yet fairly generic as well uh
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because obviously we talking to
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different Target markets and groups the
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whole time around these various issues
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so if we take HIV AIDS as a example um
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AIDS affects everything uh uh from a
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conservation perspective uh 3% of our
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work force uh in conservation areas in
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our country die each year due to AIDS so
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you can imagine if it takes five years
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to train a ranger uh uh in one year we
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could lose as a country a substantial
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portion of that Workforce in terms of
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the training and investment made in it
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never mind the social impact and the
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devastation that uh that causes on on
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the ground in the communities and where
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those people work so clearly any impact
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we can have to a reduce the number of
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people being affected uh with AIDS any
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impact we can have in reducing the
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number of people that die and any impact
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that we can have in making the
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communities far more aware of all these
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processes coming in only makes
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conservation better off but also gives
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them a perspective that we care because
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we do and therefore we don't just care
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about the wildlife we don't just care
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about our natural resources but we care
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about all living things and and this is
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the messages that we try and give So
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within the strategic planning it's
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really a holistic approach and it's
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really about developing programs that
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have a meaningful impact on the ground
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there's no point developing a program
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that looks great at a university or
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great in a book or on a paper we have to
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test it and we need to Benchmark it
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against the realities of the situations
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that we're dealing with and can you
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recall a time when an indiv when an
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initiative didn't work well or wasn't
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working out well and what did you take
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away from that or how did you kind of
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pivot and restructure it to work
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differently well I I I um I remember
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back in uh
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19095 um our country was just moving uh
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uh into democracy we had just had our
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our elections we just had the new
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government in power but one of the
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challenges that we had was that uh
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Believe It or Not
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92% of the population of the country at
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that time had never been into a park a
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reserve into a
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natural area now that's very hard to
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believe when you're talking about a
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country of South Africa that is endowed
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with natural beauty but that was one of
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the legacies of aparte there was a piece
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of legislation which pres which
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prevented black South Africans from
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experiencing large parts of of the
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country um and so we immediately had
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this Legacy issue to deal with and so
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one of the programs that we started was
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a program that would take um young
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people up the mountains of you know
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Table Mountain and into these
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natural areas so all almost create um
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black hiking clubs on a mass-based uh uh
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um process to get as many people safely
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in and out of of these natural areas um
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that was the idea I had two challenges
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first of all to raise and find a way to
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get the funding for these kind of
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programs and then the second challenge
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was was how to do it the mistake I made
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was that when we designed the program we
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thought well I'll just find a whole lot
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of Environmental Education officers uh
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and they would take these uh young
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people into the mountain where I made
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the mistake was that that that I was
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dealing still with the legacy of aparte
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and a lot of these black youth did not
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want to go with white men or white women
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uh who were the trained environmental Ed
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education officers so I then had to
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change the whole thinking and planning
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around the program and the solution that
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we found is we created a volunteer youth
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leadership program where we trained
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youth leaders from the very townships to
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be the guides we actually gave them
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guide training we taught them how to
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guide and then we made the program their
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program and they then guided tens of
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thousands of Youth over the years up
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Table Mountain in this instance so it's
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it's a program that still operates still
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works but is led by black youth
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volunteers for black youth from the
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townships very strong
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mentorship very strong you can just
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imagine that the teaching and the impact
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is so powerful because the youth can
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identify with the teachers and the
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medium so there's an example of a
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problem and and hopefully a solution
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which has worked now how has I mean how
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have like issues related to apartheid I
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mean how has that the way that they have
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impacted various programs that you do I
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mean how has that evolved over the years
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like I mean obviously they haven't gone
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it hasn't gone away
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but I would think that you know as you
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so the time the time goes on that it
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sort of evolves in the way that it
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impacts the country and impacts
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individual people and individual
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programs so I mean have you have you
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seen that or yeah I think I think you
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know it's really um related
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to uh this um the people being able to
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really
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see the program for what it is or see
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the impact that you're trying to give
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for what it is see the the genu of what
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it is that you're trying to do um and
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and and then bind into to that I mean I
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think to use a analogy I mean in in
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America you know the it's quite obvious
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that the Civil War although it was you
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know a long long long time ago there's
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still exactly residual um aparte that
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residual would be around for generations
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and generations to come and rightly so
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and you know we must never forget what
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happened never ever and so we need to
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have that but at the same time we need
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to develop programs that people can see
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that they are genuine they can impact on
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them they can be part of them they see
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it for what it is is when you hide
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things or when you try and uh create
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programs without communicating what it
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is that you're trying to achieve that's
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when I think some of of the legacies of
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the Past come on why are you hiding this
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why are you not telling us the whole
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thing why are you why are you keeping
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this or keeping that so it's just being
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transparent uh in what you do and people
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see that and they accept that I think
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also in the South African story um there
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are now millions and millions of young
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South Africans who we call the born
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frees including my two children they
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were born in a area where there was no
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aparte they were born post uh post 94 um
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and um Millions um I think about six
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million of them will have the
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opportunity to now vote for the first
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time V vote as the first population
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group or or group that can vote in a
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time when when they weren't born in
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apartheid and I think that's going to
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have a very powerful Dynamic on the
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future so we are talking to more
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educated people that are more aware um
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and I think it's really about
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transparency about being open uh and
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about ensuring that they buy into the
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process and now I mean Africa as a
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continent is really I mean and then
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South Africa certainly as a country I
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mean is undergoing a really a period of
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you know dramatic growth and economic
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development I mean what types of
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opportunities do you feel like that
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presents both for the region and for the
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Wilderness Foundation but also I mean
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what about the challenges related to
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that well the yeah I mean with every
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opportunity of course there are the
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challenges so I mean I think I think the
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opportunities are immense the the
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opportunity in oil and gas um
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exploration I think some of the greatest
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uh um gas and oil fields in the last
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decade have been found uh in and around
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Africa uh uh the mineral um and natural
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resource opportunity is huge uh the it
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uh uh um and mobile Community
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applications is equally um massive
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industry that's growing um the
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networking opportunities so those are
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all the positives I mean I think
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Africa's had a average economic growth
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of five% in the last uh 10 years I mean
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you know those are all very impressive
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numbers the problem is that that uh that
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we still have a very high level of um
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educational challenges throughout Africa
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we still have high levels of poverty and
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Unemployment uh we still uh have issues
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with that natural resource exploration
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it's you know uh uh we need to make sure
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that the policies and the laws and the
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rule of law is adhered to in terms of
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environmental legislation and ensuring
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that that exper operation happens in a
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in as sustainable way as one can have so
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I think we must not make the mistakes
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that if I may say countries like China
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have made where they've got huge uh
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environmental and ecological issues that
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they're only now beginning to to address
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um and we must not as Africa make that
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same mistake where we go so fast in our
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economic growth that we forget yet to do
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what is right by the environment at the
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same time as um as as as find the uh
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economic opportunities for employment
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and growth so the role of the Wilderness
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Foundation U as a africa-wide NGO is
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really to to be that voice hopefully of
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reason to really help to guide the
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governments to guide companies and
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corporates and to to build up a um a
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core of people who have that
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environmental un understanding and that
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can help to apply that as we keep going
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through this um this area of of
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tremendous growth and opportunity for
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Africa we must remember that climate
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change and global warming uh it's going
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to and is probably going to affect
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Africa um probably one of the worst of
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all the continents and so that all also
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needs to be be born in mind as we're
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going through this huge opport this huge
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period of growth so the role of civil
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society is critical in the future
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Democratic process of Africa as a whole
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and also in terms of the future of
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Africa as a positive
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turnaround um story we need Civil
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Society to be strong on all the those
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areas of human rights of poverty
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alleviation of environmental concern of
00:22:04
sustainable practice that needs to come
00:22:08
into the picture more and more and it's
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through the
00:22:11
international pressure hopefully that
00:22:13
that will
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happen and now getting back to um
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leadership questions I mean what has
00:22:19
been your toughest leadership challenge
00:22:21
and how have you solved it um well I
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need to look I think I think we you you
00:22:29
are a leader because you're there to
00:22:32
deal with the tough issues uh uh you
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know the easy stuff tends to get handled
00:22:39
by other people you get the tough
00:22:43
questions and the challenges I think a
00:22:45
large uh portion of of leadership is
00:22:49
dealing with people and sort of human
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resource related issues uh particularly
00:22:56
in NOS where we don't have the luxuries
00:22:59
of of having dedicated HR directors and
00:23:03
and support the chief Executives often
00:23:05
plays plays um a large role within the
00:23:09
non-govermental field in those kind of
00:23:12
issues but also you deal with a lot of
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the risk um you deal with a lot of the
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financial pressures and the and the uh
00:23:22
opportunities I guess the the um the
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toughest decisions I've had
00:23:28
to take as a CEO is is see the landscape
00:23:33
of our country changing um uh realize
00:23:37
that social and environmental issues
00:23:40
cannot be separated realize that
00:23:44
historically I've inherited a
00:23:46
conservation organization not a social
00:23:49
organization realized to have a future
00:23:52
for this organization I need to embed
00:23:55
strong social philosophy and programs in
00:23:58
the organization and then convince
00:24:00
everyone around me that this is the
00:24:03
right thing to do and then lead the way
00:24:06
in implementing
00:24:08
it not not hard at all no just a day's
00:24:12
work right and what would your advice be
00:24:15
to somebody who a young person or
00:24:17
anybody that really wants to enter this
00:24:20
field um it's a wonderful field to enter
00:24:24
Because really what you are entering is
00:24:27
is really really um uh part of of of I
00:24:31
think the most noble cause that you can
00:24:34
be working for and that is for for a
00:24:36
holistic approach to our planet Earth um
00:24:40
to to Really ensure that that within all
00:24:46
the challenges that our society and that
00:24:49
uh businesses have going forward that a
00:24:53
voice and advocacy and a sort of um
00:24:58
strong
00:24:59
proactive um approach to
00:25:02
environmental social and the interface
00:25:05
between the two with a business it's an
00:25:08
exciting field to be part of of that and
00:25:11
to really be an ambassador for that but
00:25:14
one needs to be holistic one needs to be
00:25:17
open one can't be closed one has to be
00:25:21
able to communicate and and be able to
00:25:24
embrace and be able to take on the
00:25:28
things that perhaps you don't like and
00:25:30
and you don't like to hear but you've
00:25:32
got to think of the greater good and I
00:25:35
mean I think our job right now is is we
00:25:39
are at a period of our history as
00:25:43
humankind where where we under great
00:25:45
threat and the threat that we under is
00:25:48
of our own making we are one of 13
00:25:53
million odd species that make up the
00:25:56
Earth uh and yet uh in the past 150
00:26:00
years the impact that we've had on those
00:26:03
other 13 million species is such that
00:26:08
within the next 40 years 20% of them
00:26:12
could be extinct and but the question we
00:26:14
need to ask is if that does happen and
00:26:17
there's a strong likelihood that it is
00:26:19
going to happen what does that mean for
00:26:22
us what does it mean when those species
00:26:27
that we rely on in ways that we can't
00:26:29
even quantify now when a fifth of them
00:26:33
no longer exist because that is
00:26:36
biodiversity that is our life support
00:26:39
system so when the fifth of that life
00:26:43
support system no longer exists what
00:26:45
does that mean for us and I would like
00:26:48
to see that as a positive challenge for
00:26:50
people entering this field is to find
00:26:53
ways to get people to understand and
00:26:55
start doing something about it no Andrew
00:26:59
thanks so much for being with us today
00:27:00
great thank you very
00:27:05
[Music]
00:27:24
much
