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Martin Henderson welcome to my podcast
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thanks Dominic I appreciate it mate mate
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I I appreciate you being here and [ __ ]
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you you're just as handsome in real life
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as what you are on Virgin River oh
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that's not true there's a lot of makeup
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and lighting that goes into that um I
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was watching an episode of it last night
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geez the arms do you you do look smaller
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now than what you look in Virgin River
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do you do you have like a workout regime
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that you yeah I do to get jacked up for
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that jacked up for Jack um yeah I do
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tend to just been um I've actually been
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unwell recently so that's part of yeah I
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haven't really been exercising the way
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they normally do I had to go into a
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hospital for an emergency procedure
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about two months ago so oh you okay I'm
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fine now yeah thankfully thanks to good
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doctors yeah yeah so um but normally
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yeah I try I try to work out I think for
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my mental health as much as anything
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it's super important jeez and you're
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you're turning 50 in October you're
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looking good you you're feeling good I
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just about spat my
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I water out when you said that
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number I was feeling good until you
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brought that up man I'm I'm envious I'm
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I'm just about to turn 51 oh you look
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good come on thank you I feel like I
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have got um better looking with age but
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you look you look at shots of you you've
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never had an ugly face it's it's not
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like you've grown into being 50 you've
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just been handsome a handsome [ __ ] the
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whole way through [ __ ] it you're very
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kind that makes me nervous what are you
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really going to ask me I feel like
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you're buttering me up here
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no no absolutely not I'm just I'm
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honored that you're here um I do I do do
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quite a bit of research from my guests
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that come on the podcast um a lot of
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that research involves like seeing
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what's on YouTube uh seeing what other
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podcasts they been on have you is this
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your first
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podcast I did one podcast with Kim
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Crossman in La pretty depressed yes a
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few years ago um I'd known Kim from sort
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of shorten Street circles for years and
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i' actually come across it uh separate
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to her and I just heard sort of the I
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felt what she was trying to put out
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there was really important and then she
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said would I come on and so yes I did
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that so I'm not a virgin I'm not this is
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from Virgin River but not not a podcast
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virin um okay gez there's so much to
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unpe with you it's been um it's been a
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hell of a life and a hell of a career
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and I feel like you just sort of hitting
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your straps now at middle age
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um but you know it's quite funny like
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when you're when you're living New
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Zealand and you watch your career it
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feels like Greatest Hits it's like oh
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yeah Martin's on sh Street Martin's in
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Australia Martin's on a Nicholas Cage
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[ __ ] movie Martin's doing a thing
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with Naomi wats but when you when you
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dig beneath the surface there's a lot of
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a lot of downtime in between these
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things so I'm guessing there's a hell of
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a backstory and a lot of adversity and a
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lot of struggle for the artist yeah
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there is um and I don't want it to be a
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poor me story cuz I it's a happy ending
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yeah I do
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I uh I I do
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feel fortunate in a way because I felt
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like some things went my
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way uh I don't I don't believe in luck
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per se I think you create your luck by
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creating opportunity and seizing
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opportunity and withstanding the
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inevitable adversity um and that's not
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luck that's probably more about
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perseverance and and believing in
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yourself and tenacity and all those sort
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of character things things that you've
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got to build up um and I definitely had
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a huge amount of challenges around just
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sticking it out but at the same time I
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do feel lucky you know I kind of I felt
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like when I arrived into Cal into La
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originally um I I got an agent and a
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manager overnight you know and I know a
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lot of people that just just that little
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step towards their Hollywood dream can
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take a long time and there's a lot of
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rejection just trying to get
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representation but because I'd had a
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pretty substantial body of work both in
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Australia and New Zealand prior to going
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there that certainly was a nice calling
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card you know and I think rep
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representatives were like oh okay this
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kid's worked in New Zealand Australia
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he's got some chops so let's sign him
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and hopefully you know something happens
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um but then once you've got the the
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agent and the manager you know
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there's all the the auditioning and the
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the setbacks and the rejection and the
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politics within Hollywood and who knows
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who
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yeah that's part of what I'm intrigued
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about you though because um there there
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are so many so many so many Crossroads
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in the Martin Henderson story where you
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could have taken the easy Road and you
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didn't you took the other one like you
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could have and and this is this is no
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discredit to him whatsoever because it's
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been a hell of a career but um Michael
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galin who's Dr Chris Warner on shortland
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Street started at the same time as you
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he had a wonderful career just remaining
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on on shortland Street you could have
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done that you could have stayed on home
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and away or one of the shows in
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Australia but instead you made life
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difficult for yourself many many times
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yeah I I guess I did um my dad out no no
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I think that's a fair assessment my dad
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brought that up when I was in
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LA um and I you know it was rough and I
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was struggling to get sort of my career
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really started and and he suggested that
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I come home you know he's like mate he
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said I understand you want to be like
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Russell Crow and I get that I I can but
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but you've got a career in New Zealand
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you know and Australia you could just
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come home and he was sort of trying to
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open the door um to me to take that
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easier option
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um but it's not what I wanted you know I
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think I think from a really I did from a
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really early age and and I saw that
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possibility and I think it would have
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been hard for me to ignore that
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potential CU then I feel like I would
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have been letting myself down because
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they were it was about what I had seen
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and what I thought I would like to
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achieve and um also I got yeah I
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remember on shorton street I was getting
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ready to negotiate my last year on that
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and uh I'm not going to say his name but
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anyway the
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producer um during the negotiations I
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sort of said well you know I think I'll
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do one more year and then I'm going to
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go and he's like and he said where you
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going to go and I'm like I don't know I
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want to go I want to do film and and he
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laughed at me and he just and he said
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you can't do film you can't do fil and I
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think when someone tells me I can't do
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something the [ __ ] I can I was like yeah
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so I think that that one conversation
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was
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uh probably the very opposite of what he
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was angling for cuz I think he wanted me
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to stay and I was like but when he said
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I couldn't I was like all right [ __ ] you
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I will um I'll prove you yeah so yeah
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haters are your motivators sometimes
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yeah there's um there's a saying I
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really like and I feel like it applies
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to you it goes something like um a ship
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is safe in the harbor but that's not
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what ships are for yeah yeah I like that
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saying a lot yeah so okay and You' got
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to Lo lose sight of the shore for a long
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time before you find a new land and it's
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a terrifying thing oh it is it's it's
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yeah it's challenging and it's scary and
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then of course all the demons come up
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the self-doubt the insecurity you know
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am I enough have I done the right thing
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you know all that just that mental
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chatter that can kind of limit your your
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own ambition and belief in yourself and
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then that then then the real work starts
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you know it's not about having acting
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chops you know figuring out who you are
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as as a person yeah it's that deep sort
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of
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Dark Night of the Soul stuff where
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you're confronted with how much you
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believe in yourself how much you love
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yourself um what you value you know what
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your dreams really are because it can I
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think it's very easy to listen to what
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everybody else wants for you um and I
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actually was very
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fortunate uh just before doing the ring
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you mentioned Army Watts before that
00:07:53
movie I've been living in Paris for a
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while I was with a French girl and
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loving my life it was incredible um but
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I was sort of my career was on I was
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very distracted by all the art galleries
00:08:05
and the Fantastic nature of Paris um and
00:08:08
her of course and I was like man I've
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really got to get back to myself and
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someone had mentioned the artist's way I
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don't know if you're familiar with this
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book I've got that c says to get up
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every morning and write for 90 minutes
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exactly yeah and then each week you've
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got these different uh activities and
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you take yourself on an artist date
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where you do something that is
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Meaningful to you or inspiring somehow
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and and and a lot of the exercises in
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the book were really
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examining whose ideas and and um
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commentary on you are still playing out
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in your own mind you know what limiting
00:08:42
beliefs are actually just inherited from
00:08:44
somebody that's passed comment or
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judgment on you and that you've sort of
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taken to heart and it can obviously be
00:08:49
your parents or School teachers mates
00:08:53
the church society as a whole you know
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whatever the collective Consciousness
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thinks is right you know you you kind of
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take on these I ideas as truths but
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they're not they're just what someone
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else said um or or believed for their
00:09:06
own subjective reasons but and that book
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was really helpful in just sort of
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examining that it was almost like a form
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of self therapy and then realizing like
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that is utter [ __ ] what I'm carrying
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in my head that's not what I believe
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about myself you know and that was a
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really instrumental moment I think in my
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life and my career too where I I felt
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very Unshackled by
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ideas that weren't really mine yeah yeah
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that's interesting yeah that's really
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interesting I love it I love that book
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yeah do oh I love it and I think it's
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fascinating the Genesis of the book you
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know was a woman Julia Cameron she was
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married to Martin scolesi who was a
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genius filmmaker and and in order to
00:09:47
accomplish his genius results a lot of
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energy had to be poured into him and
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Julia who was a a talent in her own
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right she was a writer and a
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screenwriter and a poet uh her career
00:09:58
kind of fell by the way Wayside and that
00:10:00
book actually came about from her after
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divorcing Martin Scorsese she had to she
00:10:05
had to reinvent herself and she had
00:10:07
writers block she didn't believe in
00:10:08
herself anymore so a lot of the
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exercises in there were things that she
00:10:12
developed for herself to kind of get
00:10:14
back to her true self as an artist and
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and reclaim her talent and so has a very
00:10:20
deep personal Genesis to it that I found
00:10:24
really compelling and yeah I I tell a
00:10:27
lot of young actors or artists or kids
00:10:29
that are sort of starting out and I'm
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like just do that do that book I really
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believe in it I've literally got a copy
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of it out there I've I think I bought it
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on the recommendation of someone fli
00:10:39
through it and never stuck to it but I'm
00:10:40
going to get back to it well it's
00:10:41
challenging because it it's it requires
00:10:43
a discipline and I homor I think I might
00:10:45
have had one or two false starts yeah
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you know and there's always some excuse
00:10:49
that you got to do something but um yeah
00:10:51
when I finally committed to doing it you
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write a little contract at the beginning
00:10:55
you know sort of saying that I will
00:10:57
uphold this commitment and and do it and
00:11:00
and and make it a priority and uh I I
00:11:03
found it was hugely beneficial yeah okay
00:11:06
so you're from the North Shore of
00:11:07
Oakland like born and raised at all your
00:11:09
education there um there was something I
00:11:11
read about you so your parents an and
00:11:13
Ian and Veronica um they they broke up
00:11:16
when you were five and yeah I'm I'm
00:11:18
intrigued about that because um you're
00:11:20
49 I'm 50 my parents had a separation
00:11:23
when I was about eight and I I'm sorry
00:11:25
oh I'm
00:11:27
dealing it's not fun they got back
00:11:30
together and actually that was the worst
00:11:31
thing anyway okay oh yeah that that
00:11:33
would have been terrible on but it was
00:11:34
interesting at the at the time because
00:11:36
um I remember the the only other kid in
00:11:38
my class at school in palis North was my
00:11:40
mate Craig and his parents had broken up
00:11:42
and so my experience of like being from
00:11:45
the split home was seeing Craig getting
00:11:47
presents every Friday and Saturday with
00:11:49
his dad so I was quite excited by it
00:11:51
what was your exper what do you remember
00:11:52
being five in your appearance breaking
00:11:53
up I think I had the opposite experience
00:11:56
to you and
00:11:57
that it it it was it was hugely
00:12:00
traumatic for me I think because at that
00:12:04
age five you know you haven't developed
00:12:06
any form of an identity outside of the
00:12:08
family
00:12:10
unit you know my mom my dad my sister
00:12:13
the family cat Sammy which my dog was
00:12:16
actually named after
00:12:18
um was was my everything you know and
00:12:21
our little backyard and I just started
00:12:24
primary school and walking to car lands
00:12:26
Primary School in in tiangi and
00:12:29
everything about the the insula nature
00:12:33
of that family was was my world and
00:12:35
everything outside of that world was was
00:12:37
exciting but it was the unknown which
00:12:39
can be terrifying and I think when the
00:12:43
when my family imploded and it was quite
00:12:47
um I mean and there was a lot of arguing
00:12:48
between my parent you know it was a
00:12:50
horrible leadup to the actual split uh
00:12:54
which was equally traumatic to to
00:12:56
witness your parents sort of spewing
00:12:58
that kind of
00:12:59
hatred back at each other and
00:13:00
overhearing things that that you just
00:13:02
shouldn't because your your sense of
00:13:04
security is so rattled that the people
00:13:07
that you love and depend on are
00:13:09
clearly not enjoying each other you you
00:13:13
start well who's looking after me and
00:13:15
then when it split we we then left
00:13:17
tiangi we moved to the NorthShore and I
00:13:21
you know I was the new kid at biren head
00:13:22
primary and I was the opposite no one
00:13:25
that I knew had parents that were
00:13:27
divorced you know it just wasn't a thing
00:13:29
was it not the late 1970s not much no
00:13:32
and you know we if if they did they'd
00:13:34
probably been together longer than my
00:13:36
parents had and by then you know maybe
00:13:38
the kids had developed some sense of
00:13:40
self outside of the family and they can
00:13:42
maybe better equipped to deal with it uh
00:13:44
even my sister who was two years older
00:13:46
she she did better than me I think with
00:13:49
handling it but I yeah I I just really
00:13:52
struggled and I felt a huge sense of
00:13:55
shame because I felt what's wrong with
00:13:58
me what's you know and like am I not
00:14:01
enough or something why yeah or just my
00:14:03
family if they're my family's not
00:14:05
together what's wrong with us like we're
00:14:07
the family's broken and sort of thinking
00:14:11
well then I'm must be broken somehow and
00:14:14
and I didn't see any evidence that it
00:14:15
was normal it was so abnormal I felt
00:14:17
like an outsider and so I nursed a lot
00:14:19
of that really quietly um yeah I just
00:14:23
sort of silently struggle with all those
00:14:26
feelings and and Har this deep hope that
00:14:31
my parents would get back to together
00:14:33
and I think for a couple years I felt
00:14:34
like I was brokering the piece and if
00:14:37
you know if I could somehow you know
00:14:39
convince them you know and obviously it
00:14:41
was all futile um and quite
00:14:44
heartbreaking um yeah that's a lot so
00:14:46
that was yeah was been thinking about it
00:14:48
like five six s yeah it was was it was a
00:14:50
lot to to take on and and I don't know
00:14:54
you know I think I've obviously examined
00:14:57
it a lot over the years and therapy and
00:15:00
um one thing though i' I've come to find
00:15:04
to be true is often the thing that's the
00:15:07
most the most challenging or the the
00:15:10
darkest also within that is the
00:15:12
opportunity for the most light meaning
00:15:15
that it's in those things that we're
00:15:17
we're called upon to find out our deeper
00:15:20
selves and our our self-reliance you
00:15:22
know and so I think at quite a young age
00:15:24
uh for me nature was a huge sense of
00:15:28
solid you know I spent a lot of time on
00:15:30
my own in nature and in the New Zealand
00:15:33
Bush and and establishing a really
00:15:36
profound relationship with the natural
00:15:38
world CU it it was a safe place for me
00:15:41
and and a truly inspiring place I
00:15:43
derived a lot of joy and and I I saw a
00:15:47
lot
00:15:47
of mysticism of creation within nature
00:15:51
and it it sort of spoke to me of
00:15:53
something much bigger than all of us and
00:15:57
so in a way as yeah I was forced through
00:16:00
the hardship of that to also develop
00:16:02
sides of myself at a really young age
00:16:04
that I probably wouldn't never have been
00:16:06
inclined to do if if I didn't have that
00:16:09
yeah it's a lot I feel like for kids
00:16:10
going through that now there's like a
00:16:11
lot better tools and a lot better
00:16:13
resources and things like that but back
00:16:14
then it's like your parents didn't know
00:16:16
what the [ __ ] they were doing either no
00:16:18
no and they didn't even I mean we didn't
00:16:19
know that was the thing you know
00:16:21
I we we weren't even we weren't
00:16:24
consulted let alone really briefed on
00:16:26
the matter it just sort of happened and
00:16:27
so as a child you're you're just in the
00:16:31
slipstream of this chaos kind of trying
00:16:33
to make sense of it all and having to
00:16:35
accept what's happening um with with
00:16:39
very huge amount of powerlessness you
00:16:42
know whereas I think now there's a lot
00:16:44
of research on on people like me uh ex
00:16:48
showing that you know it's important to
00:16:50
to really talk to the children and and
00:16:53
nurture them through that and support
00:16:55
them in a way that uh they they requ
00:16:58
choire so I think you know we've come a
00:17:00
long way since then and and they're all
00:17:02
good now you mentioned your dad earlier
00:17:04
in the conversation they both married
00:17:06
out the people yeah yeah yeah they both
00:17:08
in fact my dad's celebrating his 40th
00:17:10
wedding anniversary in two weeks so
00:17:12
we're going down to Raglin to celebrate
00:17:15
that yeah which is where he got married
00:17:16
back then in 1980 or whatever it was
00:17:19
yeah8 83 they must they must be proud of
00:17:22
proud of you not not in terms of an
00:17:23
acting perspective in your successful
00:17:25
career but just of um yeah the man you
00:17:27
are yeah I think so um we're not really
00:17:30
a family that talk openly about that
00:17:33
though is mine no it's funny I mean but
00:17:37
do you tell each other you you love each
00:17:39
other often oh yeah yeah we do but we
00:17:41
don't sort of my my dad told me he was
00:17:43
proud of me once
00:17:46
um yeah what was that the Britney
00:17:50
video I think it was around that time
00:17:53
but I don't I don't think that was the
00:17:55
reason um yeah no we just yeah just not
00:18:00
that kind of overtly so you tell each
00:18:02
other you love each other but you just
00:18:03
don't show a lot of like vulnerability
00:18:05
or no not a huge amount no maybe it's a
00:18:09
generation an ER thing or I think it's
00:18:11
generational yeah uh my my mom more so
00:18:15
um although she I think my mom gets so
00:18:17
overwhelmed with with her feelings if
00:18:19
things are really triggering for her and
00:18:21
she feels vulnerable and you she sort of
00:18:24
really tries you know to not cry which
00:18:26
is quite sweet she can't help herself
00:18:27
and it all sort of comes yeah yeah um
00:18:32
and then so when you're like 12 or 13 um
00:18:35
that's when there's a casting call at
00:18:37
your school for a TV show called
00:18:39
strangers oh there I am look at that
00:18:41
cute little kid look at that kid oh so
00:18:44
happy so did you you you wanted to do
00:18:47
acting before then what was your I read
00:18:49
somewhere that you saw um a couple of
00:18:50
movies like a Harrison Ford movie which
00:18:52
I'm guessing
00:18:53
was RA the last St yeah maybe or Star
00:18:57
Wars perhaps or and a movie as well
00:18:59
which must have been Superman Superman
00:19:01
yeah no I watched all those growing up
00:19:03
my dad would take us yeah Superman Star
00:19:07
Wars um I think I was always enamored
00:19:10
with with movies and and going into the
00:19:13
theater and being taken on this journey
00:19:16
and and the story and
00:19:18
and I I don't know if it's so much the
00:19:20
escapism of it or just just relishing
00:19:23
the world and I Lov the score swelling
00:19:25
and especially back then you know like
00:19:27
the Civic actually I wed pass the Civic
00:19:28
Theater the other day with a friend of
00:19:30
mine and I was just remembering how much
00:19:33
reverence I had for that with the stars
00:19:34
on the ceiling and I had a very very
00:19:36
romantic notion of of film and and I
00:19:40
think yeah I I thought it would be
00:19:42
fun um but it's a really hard thing when
00:19:45
back then too you know there was no
00:19:47
Russell Crow I mean Sam Neil hadn't done
00:19:50
Jurassic Park yet so there was sort of
00:19:53
it was such a world away that the dream
00:19:55
of of being an actor just felt like it
00:19:58
belong to other people in another in
00:20:00
another part of the world
00:20:03
um well the world the world was so
00:20:05
disconnected back then like uh you Los
00:20:08
Angeles may as well have been the moon
00:20:10
yeah you know like similar age to you
00:20:13
all over wanted growing up was um some
00:20:15
of those sea monkeys that were
00:20:16
advertised on the B of
00:20:18
comics yeah but you couldn't buy stuff
00:20:20
online no no yeah we were so far away
00:20:23
yeah yeah so then so then so so
00:20:25
strangers so there's a casting call at
00:20:27
your school or something
00:20:29
uh yes so I had done a school play at
00:20:32
the end of standard 4 which is now grade
00:20:35
six I think whatever they call it year
00:20:37
six um the end of primary school a m of
00:20:40
mine's dad had written an adaptation of
00:20:42
Cinderella and it was sort of a musical
00:20:45
with with punks in it uh it was really
00:20:48
awesome and uh we put it on as a school
00:20:52
play and I just I thought that would be
00:20:54
so fun I put my hand up so that was my
00:20:56
first acting job
00:20:59
um and then I started writing the
00:21:02
speeches I really liked being on stage I
00:21:05
liked I like the idea of
00:21:08
conveying important things I felt like
00:21:11
there was something really great and I
00:21:12
saw I'd write speeches about animal
00:21:15
cruelty you know and and animal rights
00:21:17
and stuff but with humor and I really
00:21:19
like the idea that you could stand in
00:21:20
front of people and hold their attention
00:21:22
and and make them laugh but maybe maybe
00:21:25
make them feel something or think about
00:21:26
something important so that was all I
00:21:28
thought that was
00:21:29
cool uh and then at the end of uh form
00:21:33
two at Intermediate School TV and Z were
00:21:36
going around all the the schools in
00:21:37
ockland asking schools to submit four or
00:21:41
five kids that would be right for these
00:21:42
roles and my mate actually was going I
00:21:46
was going to play uh football uh
00:21:49
American football we're playing grid
00:21:51
iron and my mate who plays every day was
00:21:54
going the other way and I said Michael I
00:21:56
said M where you going and he said I'm
00:21:58
going to the library I'm like why are
00:21:59
you going to the library at lunchtime he
00:22:01
said oh they're auditioning for a TV
00:22:02
show for TV and z and I was like no way
00:22:05
I want to go so I went along with him
00:22:07
and still today he gives me a bit of
00:22:09
beef because I got I got the butt and he
00:22:13
yeah and he didn't but he was he was a
00:22:15
really good skateboarder and my
00:22:17
character in that show strangers was
00:22:18
supposed to be a skateboarder and I
00:22:19
couldn't skate so I got him a job as as
00:22:22
my skate double St double oh you look
00:22:24
you look you hooked him up yeah yeah
00:22:26
he's doing fine he I don't think he
00:22:28
matters anymore but it is quite funny
00:22:30
yeah he yeah so anyway that's he's
00:22:32
forgiven you but every every time he um
00:22:34
go goes on Netflix and virgin That Could
00:22:36
Have Been Me
00:22:38
it that was my
00:22:40
destiny so um yeah then you go to West
00:22:43
Lake and um I I believe you play rugby
00:22:45
and you're quite a good flanker I was
00:22:47
all right yeah yeah I mean I was really
00:22:49
fit I think I was I just I started doing
00:22:51
a lot of Athletics when I was young I
00:22:53
was quite a good long distance runers a
00:22:55
lot of CR cross country 1500 m
00:22:58
800 M um yeah and I just did a lot I
00:23:02
just play I just loved being outside so
00:23:04
I grew up um I was fortunate you know I
00:23:07
I just did a lot of sport anything I
00:23:10
could so when I got to play rugby I
00:23:12
think I was just super fit so I could
00:23:13
just go and get it to the breakdown
00:23:16
pretty pretty quick for the whole game
00:23:18
you know I didn't need much of a so I
00:23:19
think that was my superpower did you
00:23:21
have have like a no face roll like guys
00:23:24
no knees in the face no no I took I took
00:23:26
some knees man I broke my nose couple of
00:23:29
times um I'd get blood noses almost
00:23:31
every game cuz yeah some of those boys
00:23:34
were pretty big but you know it was
00:23:35
weight restricted at high school so it
00:23:37
was never yeah and then um so uh 1992 uh
00:23:41
your 17 shortland Street comes along um
00:23:44
sh stre still still going now but it's
00:23:47
um you the landscape of freedare TV has
00:23:50
has changed so much that it doesn't have
00:23:51
the sort of like cultural yeah all the
00:23:54
reach it does now but back then uh what
00:23:57
are your Recollections of that time I'm
00:23:59
guessing you were like propelled to like
00:24:01
Nationwide stom almost immediately yeah
00:24:04
I have very mixed memories of that time
00:24:08
because it was hugely exciting to you
00:24:12
know this was the first time New Zealand
00:24:14
had ever attempted to produce anything
00:24:17
like this you know we'd had neighbors
00:24:18
we' had home and away and of course
00:24:20
there was Coronation Street and these
00:24:22
sort of things Sons and Daughters yeah
00:24:25
yeah yeah but New Zealand had never
00:24:27
attempted to do it and so when I got
00:24:30
cast and it was a big deal cuz I got
00:24:31
cast at the end of my six form year I I
00:24:35
uh so I had to decide whether I was
00:24:37
going to um do this or not uh and Miss A
00:24:40
year of school um and the intention was
00:24:43
to do one year save some money and then
00:24:45
I'd go and continue my school at
00:24:47
University and put myself the university
00:24:49
and um so it seemed like a good one-year
00:24:51
plan and then when when we started we
00:24:54
were so terrible I mean you look at
00:24:55
those early the makeups horrific the
00:24:59
hairstyles bad I mean everything's bad
00:25:01
the you know the scripts weren't great
00:25:03
the acting was worse um actually I did
00:25:06
want to Prett bad I'll just pause you
00:25:08
there I wanted to ask you about that
00:25:09
because you watch it now and it does
00:25:11
look it looks pretty clumsy and pretty
00:25:13
bad but was was it good at the time and
00:25:16
it's just now that the the lighting's
00:25:18
got better and the do you know what I
00:25:19
mean was it good for the time or was it
00:25:22
still [ __ ] at the time I my I I haven't
00:25:25
actually admittedly watched any of it
00:25:27
since it came to a but my memory of it
00:25:29
was those first 6 months particularly we
00:25:33
were all scrambling to learn our jobs
00:25:35
cuz no one had there wasn't no one had
00:25:37
done it before um and it was a huge
00:25:39
demand I mean you're shooting so quickly
00:25:42
so you're you got to know your stuff as
00:25:44
an actor and get in there do scene after
00:25:46
scene after scene very little break very
00:25:49
few attempts it takes you know if
00:25:50
something goes wrong so you've got to be
00:25:52
on your game in a way that I think
00:25:54
caught me by surprise and I think most
00:25:55
of us but we just we just just were
00:25:58
committed to it and it got better and it
00:25:59
got a little bit better and then before
00:26:01
you knew it it it was decent and I think
00:26:04
we all learned our jobs really quickly
00:26:06
and and it was the first time new
00:26:08
zealanders got to see what is it 7:00
00:26:10
every night every weekday saw themselves
00:26:13
reflected in the characters you know was
00:26:15
New Zealand accents and New Zealand
00:26:17
locations social and political and
00:26:20
cultural issues that were very unique to
00:26:22
New Zealand and I think that was a huge
00:26:25
part why people were so enamored with it
00:26:28
is cuz it was like watching ourselves
00:26:30
and but then with that of course came
00:26:32
this
00:26:34
massive uh popularity and and success
00:26:37
and visibility and you know New
00:26:39
Zealand's a small I mean Oakland's a
00:26:41
small place um and as a young what was I
00:26:46
17year old I think having that level of
00:26:49
attention I found
00:26:51
really difficult and I didn't the first
00:26:54
few months I loved it I thought it was
00:26:55
kind of cool intoxicating initi it was
00:26:57
like oh oh yeah you you know and very
00:27:00
easy to meet girls and all that so it
00:27:02
felt like it was great but it very
00:27:05
quickly became something that I just was
00:27:08
not comfortable with because I realized
00:27:10
I like I love living my life with a
00:27:13
sense of Freedom I've always felt that
00:27:16
and when you're that sort of much in a
00:27:18
goldfish where you're the one that's
00:27:19
being viewed and and and looked at you
00:27:23
you start to feel quite constricted and
00:27:26
restricted and I and I hate it I didn't
00:27:28
like going out I didn't like people
00:27:30
looking at me while I ate my meal I
00:27:32
didn't like sitting at the traffic and
00:27:33
people looking at me in my car I just
00:27:35
like oh my God so I started riding a
00:27:37
motorbike so I just wore a helmet and I
00:27:39
F you know I just I really I really
00:27:42
rebelled against the that side of it and
00:27:46
yeah it wasn't fun yeah but you did you
00:27:49
have people like just yelling out um
00:27:51
Stuart your character's name m Martin
00:27:53
yeah yeah yeah and I like to go out you
00:27:55
know I was young and I I I loved going
00:27:58
out and so most of the people I I would
00:28:01
see out were were probably half drunk
00:28:03
and you know it was just a lot it was
00:28:06
just a lot of energy that came your way
00:28:08
everywhere you went it was just and it
00:28:09
was a it was I found it was too much to
00:28:11
have to be constantly then putting out
00:28:14
too you know I kind of in in some ways
00:28:17
I'm quite an introvert um I get tired
00:28:20
from sort of having to your social
00:28:22
battery yeah I kind of yeah I get really
00:28:25
uh wound down yeah yeah
00:28:28
was the um was the money okay at the
00:28:29
time do you remember how much you were
00:28:30
getting paid straight out of school I
00:28:32
don't remember the figures but it was
00:28:34
really good for a 17y old kid that was
00:28:37
sort of finishing High School yeah so
00:28:39
your parents okay with that like
00:28:40
obviously you're a smart kid like you
00:28:41
had aspirations to go to university and
00:28:43
get a like a business degree or whatever
00:28:45
yeah were they were they like okay you
00:28:46
can do this for a year sort of thing was
00:28:48
that the I think so that was yeah that
00:28:50
was the original plan and it made a lot
00:28:52
of sense and I I had a really good six
00:28:55
form year so I I got into University
00:28:58
early I could have I could have actually
00:28:59
gone in my last year of high school but
00:29:02
that wasn't appealing because all my
00:29:04
mates were were still at high school I
00:29:06
didn't like the idea of going there on
00:29:07
my own so it made sense to do a year
00:29:10
save some money it's really good money
00:29:12
for that age and then I would yeah I'd
00:29:15
start University with all my mates you
00:29:17
know and have a good time and get back
00:29:19
to to real life but I think it was
00:29:21
during
00:29:23
that because before then I'd always had
00:29:26
this dream or maybe fantasy of being an
00:29:29
actor and I remember being like maybe
00:29:32
eight years old and someone had given me
00:29:35
I got a um a poster of Porsches you know
00:29:38
it had all the Porsches models at that
00:29:40
time in the sort of early 80s and I put
00:29:43
on my wall and I'd go to bed and I I
00:29:45
remember even then before I'd even acted
00:29:47
like oh one day I'd love to go to
00:29:48
Hollywood and have a Porsche you know
00:29:50
which I never I never I never got the
00:29:52
Porsche by the way but I it was just
00:29:54
this young kind of fantasy thing you
00:29:57
know that's what success looks like yeah
00:29:59
when when I was that age it did and
00:30:03
um but I think when doing it every day
00:30:06
and then and I started well first of all
00:30:09
I wanted to get good at it I wasn't
00:30:10
happy enough with my performance and I
00:30:12
would I would go and I would ask the
00:30:15
editors to give me the reals of all of
00:30:17
the footage of the previous Day stuff
00:30:20
and between my breaks of filming I would
00:30:23
just watch and watch and I would I would
00:30:25
watch to see where I felt like I was
00:30:27
doing a good job where I felt like I was
00:30:28
falling short and and I would analyze it
00:30:31
and I pretty I'd start to okay that's
00:30:33
good that's not good and so I sort of
00:30:35
self-educated myself and I just had this
00:30:37
drive I wanted to be better I didn't
00:30:39
think what I was doing was good enough
00:30:42
wow and and that and that then fueled
00:30:45
this this that's when I started thinking
00:30:47
about it I was like okay I think I could
00:30:49
do this and then I won an award and I
00:30:52
think that was definitely the moment um
00:30:54
it was the New Zealand film and
00:30:55
television awards at the end of that
00:30:57
year year and I was shocked I was
00:31:00
shocked I was nominated I thought they'd
00:31:01
made a mistake and then I was in the
00:31:03
final three which felt a huge Triumph
00:31:07
and then to win it was just this
00:31:08
overwhelming sense
00:31:10
of I think it was oh I I can do this
00:31:13
someone on the right TR someone else
00:31:15
said I I'm doing a good enough job so
00:31:17
therefore my dreams they don't have to
00:31:20
be dreams anymore this is this is real
00:31:22
and it was from that moment that I just
00:31:24
went okay I think this is what I'm going
00:31:26
to do and I just quite started to Fig
00:31:29
forget about the idea of a different
00:31:31
career that's that's amazing the thing
00:31:33
that you said before about going through
00:31:34
the I had um Andrew Webster who's the
00:31:37
coach of the NL te the Warriors sitting
00:31:38
at here the other day and he introduced
00:31:41
he's only been the Warriors coach for
00:31:42
the past year and he introduced a thing
00:31:43
called Extreme ownership which is a like
00:31:45
a Navy sales SAS sort of thing and it's
00:31:48
he said in the past um you kill anyone
00:31:50
that's in your way yeah that's
00:31:53
one in the past the the coaches have
00:31:55
like isolated video clips of all the
00:31:57
players and then giving them like a you
00:31:59
know a video file to watch but he said
00:32:01
extreme ownership is the players going
00:32:03
through the video files themselves and
00:32:04
then working out what they need to work
00:32:06
on which sounds like you didn't have a
00:32:07
label but that's exactly what you were
00:32:09
doing back in Shand Street yeah yeah
00:32:11
yeah it's
00:32:13
remarkable just just a quest for
00:32:15
self-improvement yeah and I think the
00:32:17
only way I can get better is to sort
00:32:19
of objectively look at it and say okay
00:32:22
well I you know and i' I'd grown up
00:32:24
watching a lot of TV man I I was a TV
00:32:27
addict I would get up on a Sunday if my
00:32:30
parents were sleeping in I you know I'd
00:32:33
go in there and try to wake them up and
00:32:34
then roll so I'd go and I'd turn on the
00:32:37
TV I would watch the test pattern
00:32:39
remember the test I seriously would I
00:32:41
would watch I would just look at the
00:32:43
lines and the colors and the and the
00:32:45
crisscross and you know I mean I just
00:32:48
love TV and then to the man of born
00:32:50
would come on and praise be on a Sunday
00:32:53
in a dog show I just consumed everything
00:32:56
that that was on the TV all of it
00:32:58
British stuff American stuff comedy
00:33:01
dramas you know and I so i' I think I'd
00:33:04
grown up watching so much that I I think
00:33:06
I was a pretty good judge then I when I
00:33:07
watch myself and I'd be like N I don't
00:33:10
really believe myself in that moment
00:33:11
that didn't really work you know um so
00:33:15
it was probably just an extension of
00:33:16
this this sort of little addiction I had
00:33:19
as a kid that I just I watched films my
00:33:22
granddad he was a you know he was in
00:33:24
World War II and he flew in Lancaster
00:33:26
bomb and we would watch the Battle of
00:33:28
Britain and um The Bouncing bomb movie
00:33:32
and I mean just all sorts of the multi
00:33:35
Falcon and Bridge over River choai just
00:33:37
watched a lot of World War II he'd never
00:33:39
talk about the war but we would watch
00:33:41
War films together and um and of course
00:33:44
all the Blockbusters and so yeah I had a
00:33:47
voracious appetite for for watching
00:33:49
stuff as a kid so how long did you say
00:33:51
short streate was it two years three
00:33:54
three years I think it was it was maybe
00:33:55
a month or two shy of the of three yeah
00:33:58
something like that why did you decide
00:33:59
to leave it that was it your point to
00:34:00
leave was it your decision to leave yeah
00:34:02
yeah yeah yeah yeah why you just etchy
00:34:04
feet I just had enough I think I'd had
00:34:08
enough um I'd just put everything I
00:34:11
could into that at that age and also the
00:34:14
other the the the public stuff like I
00:34:17
said like that I found that really
00:34:19
demanding and draining and I and I got
00:34:21
sick of it um would have been so easy to
00:34:23
stay the way like go golden handcuffs in
00:34:25
a way you know security you've got an
00:34:28
acting job you're doing what you love
00:34:29
you're getting paid good money just the
00:34:30
security of it that would have in the
00:34:32
path of least
00:34:34
resistance yeah but I I just had enough
00:34:37
of it I just I think it was mainly the
00:34:40
the fame part of it I just I just got
00:34:43
bored with it and and it just it just I
00:34:46
don't know it wasn't fun anymore um I
00:34:49
didn't want to be on on that show and be
00:34:51
so front and center and so well known
00:34:55
and um it started to deplete my joy for
00:34:58
the acting and then and when I first
00:35:00
left shorton street I was like okay
00:35:01
that's it I'm done I'm going to I didn't
00:35:04
know what I was going to do for a moment
00:35:05
I mean I love sailing I'd grown up
00:35:07
sailing and I was like I'm going to work
00:35:09
on sailboats and I sort of started
00:35:10
researching how I might start getting
00:35:12
into that industry and then my agent
00:35:15
called me and said look I know you don't
00:35:16
want to do any acting but uh there's the
00:35:19
show in in
00:35:21
Australia uh called Echo point that
00:35:24
they're being that's being produced and
00:35:25
I've spoken to the producers about you
00:35:27
and if you're interested they'd love to
00:35:29
meet you and blah so so I was like okay
00:35:33
and I got you know I was yeah I was 20
00:35:35
and it meant leaving New Zealand and
00:35:37
moving to Sydney which was sort of
00:35:38
really exciting at that age uh and so
00:35:41
then that that was what then sent me to
00:35:44
Australia and kept doing it and so you
00:35:48
did it yeah Echo Point home in away a
00:35:51
show called sweat was sweat the one in I
00:35:54
saw some some of that on YouTube the
00:35:55
other day yeah is that it's not a great
00:35:58
I don't think it was great great show no
00:36:00
I don't think I don't
00:36:01
think you're like a it's like a you're
00:36:03
in like a swim squad or something yeah
00:36:05
it was a bunch of sort of young adults
00:36:07
that were vying for their Olympian you
00:36:10
know shot and slot in the Olympic teams
00:36:13
it was about a a sports academy that was
00:36:16
training these these these talented
00:36:18
potentials and and the interpersonal
00:36:21
relationships and the politics and the
00:36:23
setbacks and you know who had the
00:36:25
whatever it wasn't very good probably
00:36:26
making you sound better than it really
00:36:28
was I on YouTube it was like that it
00:36:31
felt like a step down from shortland
00:36:32
straighted away but I I don't know I
00:36:34
don't what the [ __ ] do I know yeah and I
00:36:36
I was I actually took that job because
00:36:38
my girlfriend at the time uh I started
00:36:41
dating someone who was working and when
00:36:44
I went to Sydney to work on Echo point I
00:36:46
started dating a woman that worked in
00:36:48
the production uh office and then and
00:36:52
she was from Perth and she said to me oh
00:36:54
I'm going to Perth to do the show
00:36:57
blah blah you should look into it and I
00:36:58
was like oh well I thought oh it's a way
00:37:00
for us to stay together for a little bit
00:37:02
and um so that's actually that was my
00:37:06
algebra for why I I I took that job but
00:37:08
yeah that's where I met Heath Ledger he
00:37:11
was Perth resident he was 16 and um we
00:37:15
became Good Buds and you know a lot of
00:37:18
good things came out of that yeah yeah
00:37:20
what are your Recollections of that of
00:37:22
like like meeting Heath for the first
00:37:23
time did you guys just like sort of bond
00:37:25
and bur down straight away yeah we did
00:37:27
the first time I met him he walked into
00:37:30
the room he was late it was the cast
00:37:32
read through and he walked in the door
00:37:34
and I instantly knew the guy was going
00:37:37
to be a star he hadn't even opened his
00:37:38
mouth he hadn't I hadn't heard him read
00:37:41
a line of dialogue or anything it was
00:37:43
just what he carried as as as a well he
00:37:47
was a kid he was 16 um this this
00:37:50
presence and this Charisma that he that
00:37:53
he had and I was like wow that guy is
00:37:55
going to be somebody
00:37:57
and so so you were you more seasoned
00:37:59
actor than he was at that stage with
00:38:01
your three years of shortland Street
00:38:03
yeah was that his first job yeah well no
00:38:05
he I think he had done one other little
00:38:07
job maybe a year prior I think it was
00:38:10
his second job but yeah um yeah I guess
00:38:13
I was like the older wise and
00:38:16
experienced this is what season veteran
00:38:19
yeah yeah yeah no I never gave him
00:38:20
acting tips I never gave him acting tips
00:38:22
and and you you guys um you were you
00:38:24
were flat mates we
00:38:27
yeah when that show ended I moved back
00:38:28
to syney and I called him up and I just
00:38:31
said mate you you're you're going to do
00:38:34
so well trust me on this just come to
00:38:37
Sydney you need to you know you need to
00:38:39
get out of Perth you need to be kind of
00:38:41
where the where the big Market is and
00:38:42
and um and he did him and his best mate
00:38:45
jumped in a car and they drove across
00:38:48
Australia and they arrived in Sydney and
00:38:51
uh then we yeah we got a house in Bondi
00:38:53
with another kiwi made of mine and and M
00:38:56
Madness
00:38:57
ued yeah is there any any Tales of
00:39:01
[Laughter]
00:39:03
Madness you've been um I can't remember
00:39:06
them that well I don't know if this is
00:39:07
still still accurate or if you drink now
00:39:09
at all but you you've been sober since
00:39:11
27 uh 27 years
00:39:14
old so these were some loose years oh
00:39:16
yeah yeah they were everything Bond they
00:39:18
were the they were the years that that
00:39:20
made me realize I probably need to get
00:39:21
sober is that
00:39:25
so yeah no they were fun
00:39:28
um they were definitely fun but they
00:39:30
were they were good good memories to
00:39:32
look look back on now from the
00:39:34
perspective of a a middle-aged man of an
00:39:36
older dude yeah I mean look it it's I
00:39:37
think it's a a ride of Passage you know
00:39:40
you're you're way from home you're young
00:39:42
we were working we were earning good
00:39:44
money we
00:39:45
were having fun which is the only thing
00:39:48
you were seriously interested in outside
00:39:50
to work was just how can you have the
00:39:51
most fun and and Sydney's a very fun
00:39:54
town um you it was awesome I mean your
00:39:58
early 20s and flatting with with good
00:40:01
mates and doing work you love and yeah
00:40:05
just it was great down at Bondi and um
00:40:08
yeah but it was UN un
00:40:12
uh
00:40:14
untenable could keep going on time a
00:40:16
moment a moment in time but but you you
00:40:19
guys were like really good mates right
00:40:20
like you you went to Prague to to hang
00:40:23
out with him when he was filming a
00:40:24
nights tale yeah yeah over
00:40:26
well my girlfriend was in the movie too
00:40:29
so um yeah so yeah it was weird our
00:40:33
lives were just sort of always quite
00:40:35
entwined and uh I stayed at his house in
00:40:39
La he bought a really lovely house after
00:40:41
he did the Patriot I think it was um and
00:40:45
he was traveling so much because you
00:40:47
know then he was working on different
00:40:49
stuff so and I was I was still sort of
00:40:52
quite new to La at that point and just
00:40:54
sort of trying to start my my own career
00:40:57
over there and um so yeah but there were
00:41:00
a lot of people that stayed in that
00:41:01
house it was kind of like a flop house
00:41:03
for wannabe Australian New Zealand
00:41:05
actors that were coming through town
00:41:07
really like hemsworths or is this preh
00:41:09
himsworth I think it was pre Hemsworth
00:41:11
they hadn't even sort of arrived on the
00:41:12
scene but um every everybody everybody
00:41:16
else yeah at that time in the sort of
00:41:19
the early early 2000s yeah yeah that's
00:41:22
amazing and and what about um um news of
00:41:24
his death like we do you remember where
00:41:27
you were what you were doing yeah yeah
00:41:28
no I remember it very very well what did
00:41:30
he die of it was like just some a
00:41:32
cocktail of like Pharmaceuticals like
00:41:33
sleeping pills and yeah accidental right
00:41:37
100% accidental yeah no that man had so
00:41:40
much to live for um his da his daughter
00:41:43
just one giant thing I think that alone
00:41:47
um he would never ever have chosen um to
00:41:50
not be
00:41:51
around for her um but also his work you
00:41:54
know the he was oh the Joker was
00:41:57
exceptional oh yeah and he said to me I
00:42:00
remember we spoke on the phone he was in
00:42:01
London he said Mario I think I finally
00:42:04
figured out the acting thing F this is I
00:42:07
finally figured out how to do it you
00:42:08
know and until that point he really
00:42:10
didn't believe that he knew what he was
00:42:11
doing he was just trying to figure it
00:42:13
out and clearly when he he created that
00:42:16
role he it was just such beautiful
00:42:20
profound work you know scary good and
00:42:23
scary in that it was so dark you what he
00:42:26
allowed himself to access you know um
00:42:29
and have the courage to to live in that
00:42:31
own part of his
00:42:33
psyche um was phenomenal uh you know
00:42:37
he's a true artist and yeah he was an
00:42:40
inspiration even before that he was an
00:42:42
inspiration to me even though he was
00:42:43
younger than me he was such a beautiful
00:42:47
friend he was so generous you know and
00:42:50
and so passionate and uh yeah it's
00:42:55
he's do you remember your last
00:42:58
conversation I do I do um yep and we
00:43:03
yeah we were getting closer and closer
00:43:05
and that's why it was really sad you
00:43:06
know I I um our friendship was actually
00:43:10
starting to really build again because
00:43:13
when I got sober I kind of distanced
00:43:15
myself from a lot of people in that
00:43:17
scene because they they were definitely
00:43:19
not sober uh you just have to don't you
00:43:23
you have to like Shar your old friend
00:43:25
group for a while yeah too much
00:43:27
temptation to and just yeah you can't do
00:43:29
two things at once so um but yeah it'll
00:43:32
be it's there was a real real big loss
00:43:36
you know personally but just for the
00:43:37
world that he would have gone on to do I
00:43:40
believe so much more incredible work you
00:43:43
know not not just as an actor but I
00:43:45
think as a director too you know he he
00:43:47
was just dipping his toe into that and
00:43:49
he had a script that he was really
00:43:50
passionate he was developing that he
00:43:52
wanted to direct and um he was an
00:43:54
amazing photographer and
00:43:56
just yeah well it was just going from
00:43:58
strength to strength even the the I
00:44:00
suppose the cute movies early on like
00:44:02
two hands or a nights tail they just
00:44:04
great 10 Things I had about you just
00:44:06
great just great movies and Brokeback
00:44:07
Mountain just phenomenal yeah brilliant
00:44:09
incredible yeah you actually um this is
00:44:11
after Heath's death you worked um on a
00:44:14
movie called Everest with Jake
00:44:15
Gyllenhaal did you guys s did you know
00:44:17
Jake before that did do you bond with
00:44:19
him over your Mutual connection with
00:44:22
Heath um no not really
00:44:26
no
00:44:28
um no Jake Jake he sort of came into
00:44:32
that movie for a very short time you
00:44:35
know he works a lot I think it was one
00:44:37
of those things where his agent managed
00:44:40
to get him he finished one movie and
00:44:42
then he slipped in to shoot most of that
00:44:45
stuff was I think up in the mountains
00:44:47
right um so he wasn't really around as
00:44:51
much as the entire cast and I think he
00:44:54
was getting ready to do Southpaw because
00:44:57
I remember he was training and we spent
00:44:59
some time actually in Italy we were up
00:45:01
at this um in the Dolomite mountains and
00:45:04
it was you know very high up and he was
00:45:07
getting ready to train and I was like
00:45:09
I'll train with you and and he had a
00:45:10
whole little routine that we were doing
00:45:12
but it was really hard because there was
00:45:13
no oxygen you know it's really really
00:45:15
hard to work out at that at that yeah it
00:45:18
was brutal yeah and the two of us we
00:45:20
didn't even get through it but um yes I
00:45:23
think he was going off to shoot that
00:45:24
movie so didn't see didn't spend that
00:45:26
much time with them yeah yeah yeah it's
00:45:28
funny I suppose you have this perception
00:45:29
as like a movie Watcher that oh they
00:45:31
must be like bowing out on the mountain
00:45:33
or yeah no some other people though that
00:45:35
was a beautiful experience um Jason
00:45:39
Clark who you know was an Aussie actor
00:45:41
who actually my very first film role was
00:45:43
in a film in Sydney right before I left
00:45:46
Australia to go to the states and Jason
00:45:49
played sort of the nasty mean guy um and
00:45:53
I just but I just remember him being on
00:45:55
set I such a fan of his I watched him
00:45:57
work and he just had this kind of this
00:45:59
Brando esque quality to him I remember
00:46:02
as a really young actor just going that
00:46:04
guy's going to do great and you know and
00:46:06
he he's done amazing so that was a real
00:46:08
joy to be back with him years later and
00:46:10
we did a lot of our training for that
00:46:12
movie we went to Ben Nevis in Scotland
00:46:15
and climbed that uh but we also went
00:46:17
down to uh the Tasman glacia here and
00:46:20
stayed in a Hut on the glacier and did
00:46:22
some climbing and different training
00:46:24
here in New Zealand which was
00:46:26
and yeah how good and then so then um
00:46:30
after your um stun in how many years in
00:46:31
Australia how many years were you in
00:46:33
Australia doing the the Soaps and
00:46:34
whatnot I think it was three years total
00:46:37
yeah and then you decide to make life
00:46:39
really difficult for yourself and you go
00:46:40
to New York to become like a struggling
00:46:42
student yeah yeah you're right I I am
00:46:45
taking the the the Hard Road aren't I
00:46:47
it's like when things start to get good
00:46:49
you're like n this is too easy yeah from
00:46:52
what I've read about your time in New
00:46:53
York two twoe twoe course stud studying
00:46:56
like the fundamentals of acting it
00:46:57
sounds Grim like you're sleeping on a
00:46:59
sleeping on a floor on a tiny mattress
00:47:02
uh you bartending job at a like a
00:47:04
swingers club or a strip club or yeah an
00:47:07
ory club or something like that yeah
00:47:09
yeah yeah no I it was
00:47:12
definitely a challenging time again
00:47:16
um yeah your appearance along the way
00:47:19
must been like mad what the [ __ ]
00:47:21
doing you're self
00:47:23
sabotaging yeah I I when you when you
00:47:27
say it like that I guess in hindsight it
00:47:29
sounds like but in the
00:47:30
moment you know I had I had started
00:47:34
acting really young I I kind of fell
00:47:37
into it because it was something I just
00:47:39
enjoyed doing so any opportunity I'd put
00:47:41
my hand up it created opportunities and
00:47:44
then from those opportunities I was able
00:47:46
to build on it but I had never really
00:47:48
studied acting like I said I'd studied
00:47:51
myself I'd
00:47:52
selftaught um and a lot of the people
00:47:55
that I was with working with had just
00:47:56
come out of drama school like Nida in
00:47:58
Australia or or here in New Zealand and
00:48:01
and I and I felt like there was some
00:48:03
part of my training that I was missing
00:48:08
and um and I wasn't really I mean I was
00:48:11
successful that I kept getting work but
00:48:13
I didn't feel like sweat and Echo point
00:48:15
and a lot of the jobs I was doing were I
00:48:18
didn't feel like I was doing work that I
00:48:19
was that proud of um so I wanted to I
00:48:24
wanted to work on stuff that I felt
00:48:26
would challenge me in a way and I could
00:48:28
see what I was made of and I decided
00:48:31
that studying theater would be the best
00:48:33
way to do that because arguably the best
00:48:35
writing is in a play you know a
00:48:37
playright goes away and toils and sweats
00:48:39
over that stuff for years
00:48:42
sometimes um and you really can only be
00:48:44
as good as the writing and so I I wanted
00:48:46
to immerse myself in a in a in a
00:48:49
situation where that was the stuff that
00:48:51
was fueling my ideas of acting um so I
00:48:55
was like like well where would you do
00:48:56
that I guess London or New York and I
00:48:58
was like well I don't love New York uh
00:49:00
London as much as I love New York so
00:49:02
I'll go there um and then as soon as I
00:49:04
made that decision I met uh my acting
00:49:06
teacher in Sydney uh Annie Swan um and
00:49:11
she yeah just through a coincidence I I
00:49:14
met this person and I started going to
00:49:16
her her house for acting classes and um
00:49:19
and she really set me up for sort of
00:49:23
leaving this part of the world and and
00:49:25
opening up my ideas and um and she
00:49:28
educated me on Art and music and
00:49:31
literature and plays and films and stuff
00:49:34
that you know as a Suburban kid from the
00:49:36
NorthShore of ockland I hadn't really
00:49:38
come across you know and and I started
00:49:40
getting this appetite for for other
00:49:42
artists and and excellence and and what
00:49:45
is excellence and and developing some
00:49:48
taste and kind of refining my own sense
00:49:52
of what I want to do with my life you
00:49:53
know not just my work but my life and
00:49:55
she was hugely instrumental in um making
00:49:59
me grow up and get a get an education
00:50:02
and and so my idea of going to New York
00:50:05
it it it wasn't to make it hard uh it
00:50:10
was to I guess find out what I was made
00:50:13
of and and find out what I what I needed
00:50:15
to learn to be to be better
00:50:19
um so and it was really really hard I
00:50:22
had I known it was going to be as hard
00:50:24
as it was cuz of course then the new
00:50:25
Zealand dollar was 36 oh yeah 36 um
00:50:31
cents in the dollar you get it so it was
00:50:33
brutal three New Zealand dollars to one
00:50:35
grand yeah yeah yeah so just that you
00:50:38
know and I was like oh okay I've got to
00:50:39
go to work here just to pay my rent and
00:50:41
as you know New York's so expensive and
00:50:43
were were you just chipping into savings
00:50:45
you had some savings from I I had some
00:50:46
savings yeah um but the extra yeah I
00:50:50
just I hadn't really budgeted as well as
00:50:52
I could and I'd gone to Europe the
00:50:54
summer before with some mates and tow it
00:50:56
around on a van and I bought this van
00:50:58
and it blew up in Spain caught on fire
00:51:01
so I was like oh man okay the money's
00:51:04
going down I'm going to school um but
00:51:07
yeah whatever I just but you do what you
00:51:10
do you get your hustle right and that
00:51:11
was cool I hadn't been in that position
00:51:13
before either um from a very early age
00:51:15
I'd always had a pretty healthy paycheck
00:51:17
and now I was working yeah two two
00:51:21
jobs you know double shifts on weekends
00:51:24
restaurants bars
00:51:26
whatever it was um to just make in meet
00:51:29
and even that was kind
00:51:30
of cool in a way it was it was different
00:51:33
it was new and it was New York City and
00:51:36
so did you did you kind of like maybe
00:51:38
deep down the uh the concept of being
00:51:40
like a struggling
00:51:41
artist yeah in a way I no I don't think
00:51:45
I wore it as a badge because I I still
00:51:47
wanted to get back to being an artist
00:51:48
that did actually wasn't struggling and
00:51:51
got paid for it a be yeah I didn't
00:51:53
romanticize it to that extent but it was
00:51:55
just the situation that I was in um and
00:51:59
I knew I was growing I was growing by
00:52:01
being in that environment with other
00:52:03
artists that were also passionate and
00:52:05
struggling and and I loved New York I
00:52:09
loved the architecture and I loved I
00:52:11
love the diversity and the the energy
00:52:14
and and the honesty of the people and
00:52:17
um I just I just thrived in that and I
00:52:20
felt Anonymous you know I mean I've been
00:52:22
in front of the camera for so long I've
00:52:24
been everyone go places people knew who
00:52:26
I was no one knew who I was in New York
00:52:28
I was free I could just go there and and
00:52:31
be inspired and
00:52:33
um and I really yeah and I formed some
00:52:35
great friendships and but I was very
00:52:39
quick once yeah I I to get back on the
00:52:41
work train and get out to LA when the
00:52:43
Pres opportunity presented itself yeah
00:52:46
yeah cuz so you were sleeping on like a
00:52:48
like a like a camp mattress like a foam
00:52:50
roll I slep mattress or something like
00:52:52
you didn't even have a bedroom or
00:52:53
anything no when you put your head down
00:52:56
on the pillow at night there must have
00:52:57
been nights where you're like what the
00:52:58
[ __ ] are you
00:52:59
doing
00:53:01
um yeah there were there definitely were
00:53:04
moments um but I knew what I was doing I
00:53:06
was I was um but there's no guarantee
00:53:09
like it's not like okay everything's
00:53:11
going to be fine in a couple of years
00:53:13
it's it's on a like a hope really isn't
00:53:14
it hope that everything's going to be
00:53:17
fine yeah but I didn't I
00:53:20
didn't all I all I knew was that this
00:53:22
was going to make me better better as a
00:53:25
man better as a artist you know I I knew
00:53:29
it was challenging it was it was forcing
00:53:32
me to develop parts of my character that
00:53:34
I'd never had before and that felt like
00:53:36
a really good thing um CU you never ever
00:53:40
go if you never never go and I learned
00:53:45
that I can struggle that I can fight you
00:53:47
know and that I won't roll over and I
00:53:49
will do whatever has to be done sort of
00:53:50
built resilience yeah and I think that's
00:53:52
important and and it probably did help
00:53:55
in in a way with the The Next Period of
00:53:58
going to La and the rejection and and
00:54:01
the struggle there you know and the
00:54:03
setbacks and um because you've you've
00:54:06
touched that part of yourself that will
00:54:08
fight that won't give up you know and
00:54:10
you don't take yourself you're not
00:54:12
precious about things and well you won't
00:54:14
take the easy route you know cuz um and
00:54:17
I I think intuitively I I knew that it
00:54:20
was building those parts of myself and
00:54:22
that was a good thing that's a lot of
00:54:24
wisdom for a young fell I think and in
00:54:27
hindsight like from the perspective of a
00:54:29
49y old man do you look back and think
00:54:30
[ __ ] I was I had my head screwed on the
00:54:32
right way I don't think I would have had
00:54:35
the same sort of tenacity at that age I
00:54:36
think if I was in your shoes at that age
00:54:38
after a couple of nights on a cockroach
00:54:40
infested New York FL I would have been
00:54:42
like I'm going to call up shortland
00:54:43
Street and see what's
00:54:44
up yeah you know what I mean like there
00:54:47
was yeah I suppose that's the thing you
00:54:49
did have like a a plan B back home like
00:54:51
you know some doors would have opened
00:54:52
for you but you'd have to come back with
00:54:54
your tail between leagues would agree
00:54:56
yeah yeah and I did and I I I I believed
00:54:59
in myself you know I backed myself and
00:55:01
that's and that's why I was there um I
00:55:04
think if I didn't believe in myself then
00:55:05
I would have I wouldn't have taken that
00:55:07
leap I would have just stay you know i'
00:55:09
just got into a film in Australia and
00:55:10
that was a big deal back then you were
00:55:12
either a TV actor or a film actor and I
00:55:14
managed to get cast in this film and
00:55:17
that was that was huge um and there
00:55:19
there was a moment I was like oh what am
00:55:20
I doing things are just starting to you
00:55:23
know I'm on the right path here but
00:55:25
um but i' I read a lot about the the
00:55:29
actor studio and that sort of that
00:55:33
period of of of uh drama school in New
00:55:35
York and the you know I was very curious
00:55:39
about that world and I want I wanted to
00:55:42
be a part of it inspired me you know I
00:55:44
started reading the plays and um I I
00:55:48
just I don't know I just found it
00:55:50
attractive even it was hard it was still
00:55:52
it was still inspiring it was still uh
00:55:55
you know and you're in New York City I
00:55:56
mean yeah it's tough and you you you're
00:55:59
sleeping on a foam mattress on the floor
00:56:01
and you've got a mate on the sofa and
00:56:02
another guy there and one guy's snoring
00:56:04
and it's snowing outside
00:56:06
and you know and you're worried about
00:56:08
how much money you've got at the end of
00:56:10
the week for food but you're like well
00:56:11
if I do a double shift I guess I could
00:56:13
get you know all my meals at the
00:56:15
restaurant that night and um yeah it's
00:56:18
it's probably worth noting as well just
00:56:20
um for anyone that's listening or
00:56:21
watching to this like this was a time
00:56:23
where you couldn't just pick up your
00:56:25
iPhone and FaceTime your family back
00:56:26
home and it cost nothing like no you had
00:56:28
the calling cards you have the calling
00:56:30
cards you scratch the code yeah or a
00:56:33
landline and or or even letter writing
00:56:35
perhaps yeah there were no letters there
00:56:37
were emails weren't there this was 2000
00:56:40
yeah yeah may this was 90 98 this was 98
00:56:44
to 99 so got to make it sound like ye
00:56:46
olden
00:56:49
days yeah but it was the call cards how
00:56:52
definitely felt like a long long way
00:56:54
away compared to how us now though I
00:56:55
guess yeah yeah yeah totally yeah so
00:56:58
then and then you drop out of that it's
00:56:59
a two-year course you drop out after one
00:57:01
year I drop out after one year um
00:57:05
voluntarily
00:57:07
um I I I decided I wanted to do some
00:57:11
private uh tutoring um some other
00:57:13
teachers just privately also because the
00:57:16
school took that was just just
00:57:19
pragmatically I mean from 8 in the
00:57:21
morning till 4 in the afternoon you're
00:57:23
at school and then I I get on my
00:57:25
10-speed bike and I'd cycle down town to
00:57:28
the
00:57:29
restaurant um and clock in and then put
00:57:32
on the thing and then work there and do
00:57:34
a whole shift then cycle back up to my
00:57:36
apartment at night and come in the door
00:57:38
and crash out then wake up to school and
00:57:41
I just felt like I I needed to have less
00:57:45
time a more focused time of work of of
00:57:48
my school rather um and a lot of the
00:57:51
stuff within the school I felt wasn't
00:57:53
necessarily that important um so I
00:57:57
wanted to do the second year just do
00:57:59
private study with an acting coach and
00:58:02
then I just have more time to have a
00:58:03
little more of a relaxed lifestyle but
00:58:07
uh a producer had seen that movie that I
00:58:09
did in Australia just before I left and
00:58:12
it's quite a funny story it was I think
00:58:14
it was a Tuesday morning it was Winter I
00:58:18
was not sober I was really hung over and
00:58:21
my mates had gone to school and I was
00:58:22
like I could hardly lift my my head off
00:58:25
the pillow and the school was very
00:58:27
strict that you you would not miss a day
00:58:29
of school even if you were sick
00:58:32
certainly if you were hung over um and
00:58:34
they were like come on man you should
00:58:36
come I'm like no I can't just go just
00:58:38
tell them I'm really sick so they go and
00:58:40
about I don't know I fell back asleep
00:58:43
and the phone
00:58:44
rings and I answer and I I'm like hello
00:58:47
my head hurts you know and it's and this
00:58:50
guy's like oh yeah get a Martin I'm you
00:58:53
know Lance I'm a producer in Hollywood
00:58:56
and I saw this movie that you did before
00:58:58
you left Sydney and oh you're great and
00:59:00
I reckon you know and I said oh [ __ ] off
00:59:03
and I thought it was my matate calling
00:59:05
from school so I hung up on him and then
00:59:08
he Rings back again he's like why'd you
00:59:09
hang up on me like are you for real and
00:59:12
then he's like yeah I'm actually a
00:59:13
producer and I was like oh I'm so sorry
00:59:16
um anyway and that guy yeah Lance
00:59:18
Reynolds um hooked me up man he came out
00:59:22
to New York and he took me to lunch and
00:59:24
he said Hey look I just I saw this movie
00:59:26
I think you're really talented I think
00:59:28
you have uh a future in Hollywood and if
00:59:32
I can help I'd i' be more than happy to
00:59:33
introduce you to people and so then I
00:59:36
was like all right I'm not going back to
00:59:37
school I think I'm going to go back and
00:59:39
do you know go back to work and and to
00:59:41
his word um I finished the year and then
00:59:44
I flew out to LA and he introduced me to
00:59:48
an agent see and a manager and and then
00:59:51
that was sort of the start of being in
00:59:53
LA
00:59:55
yeah I feel like you were about to say
00:59:56
in the rest is is history but it's like
00:59:59
you got to LA and things things got even
01:00:01
Grimmer than New York right like there
01:00:04
was um yeah like just but I I I was
01:00:07
thinking about this I suppose this
01:00:08
builds even more resilience like um you
01:00:10
know getting told no is is hard but if
01:00:13
you hear no over and over again or you
01:00:15
go to auditions and you you know don't
01:00:17
get the rooll over and over again again
01:00:18
it builds more resilience doesn't it in
01:00:20
character in a way it does um it does
01:00:25
and look and I I feel like I was that's
01:00:28
why I say I feel
01:00:29
lucky because although I you know I got
01:00:32
that agent the manager like straight
01:00:34
away so that part of the puzzle was done
01:00:36
I'm like okay now I have an opportunity
01:00:38
people are going to send me out and I
01:00:40
have a chance to get in a room and
01:00:42
actually you know get a
01:00:45
job excuse me
01:00:48
um and I and within that I remember in a
01:00:51
very short period of
01:00:53
time that's a whole the story but I I I
01:00:56
I went in an audition for a
01:00:58
movie um that Jason bigs ended up doing
01:01:01
I think um it was called Loser it was a
01:01:04
Sony film oh you read about the same
01:01:06
sort of era as what he was doing
01:01:08
American P yeah yeah around there yeah
01:01:09
it would have been this would have been
01:01:11
99 maybe the the the the summer of
01:01:14
99
01:01:16
um and I flew back to New York because
01:01:19
by then my manager my my now you know
01:01:22
fancy Hollywood manager
01:01:24
and agent were saying you've got to be
01:01:27
in nla and I'm like oh no I'm a I'm a
01:01:29
I'm a New York actor you know I'm really
01:01:31
serious I'm I'm not like these other
01:01:33
people you represent out there and
01:01:35
they're like it's that that may be true
01:01:39
but it's going to be a lot harder for us
01:01:41
to get you work if you're not here so I
01:01:43
very begrudgingly went back to New York
01:01:45
packed up my little suitcase got my Mac
01:01:48
pack backpack and uh and on the and I
01:01:52
when I was in New York they called and
01:01:54
they said hey remember that audition you
01:01:55
did for loser and I'm like yeah like
01:01:57
they love you I'm like oh cool like yeah
01:02:00
they want to screen test you
01:02:03
um oh man I'm not going to go into that
01:02:06
there's a whole story right oh listen
01:02:08
can you edit this because this could go
01:02:10
on I'm I'm I'm fully engaged but we're
01:02:12
on we're on your clock but I'm loving
01:02:14
these stories this is a great Deep dive
01:02:16
into not just into into your your
01:02:19
amazing career but also um there's some
01:02:21
really good lessons in here about like
01:02:22
resilience and persistence and hard work
01:02:24
I love that okay well this is probably
01:02:26
more akin to a story about not being an
01:02:29
idiot and well not that it was all my
01:02:31
fault so I fly out to LA um Heath's
01:02:35
living with his girlfriend in the hills
01:02:38
in Laurel Canyon uh he's like come and
01:02:41
stay with me I'm like oh so I'm in this
01:02:43
spare room we're like cruising around La
01:02:45
it's so much fun he's about to go off
01:02:47
and do the Patriot so he's working out
01:02:50
with the trainer on the beach and
01:02:51
getting ready for that and learning his
01:02:53
American accent and and uh and during
01:02:57
that time um I had a rental car no he
01:03:00
had a rental car and he said oh mate and
01:03:02
I had to get a haircut cuz i' been a
01:03:03
student in New York I had no money my
01:03:05
hair was just ridiculous and the
01:03:07
manager's like you got to get a haircut
01:03:09
and I we'll get you free haircut I mean
01:03:11
that's how poor I was there's there's
01:03:12
someone that'll cut your hair in West
01:03:14
Hollywood tomorrow at 3: and he's like
01:03:16
oh take my rental car I'm like oh thanks
01:03:19
bro so I drive down to the hair place I
01:03:21
go and I get my haircut and while I'm
01:03:23
getting my haircut someone breaks into
01:03:25
the car and steals remember filofaxes
01:03:29
remember F yeah yeah yeah there's huge
01:03:32
thing with things anyway and I have my
01:03:34
passport in it my New Zealand passport
01:03:36
so I come back from getting my my
01:03:38
haircut and and it's
01:03:40
gone don't think it's a big big deal
01:03:43
because I have no plans to really go
01:03:44
anywhere so then I I do these few
01:03:47
auditions and then they're like you've
01:03:48
got to live in LA so I go back to New
01:03:49
York to pack up my stuff to permanently
01:03:52
move to LA much to my hatred
01:03:55
um and while I'm in New York they call
01:03:57
me up and they say Hey you know you've
01:03:59
got this screen test I'm like oh it's
01:04:01
amazing like I'm I'm in the final two or
01:04:04
three guys they're like yeah it's in um
01:04:08
Toronto tomorrow and I'm like oh oh [ __ ]
01:04:13
well about that uh I don't have a
01:04:15
passport what do you mean you don't have
01:04:16
a passport so I tell that story you got
01:04:19
you must have seem chaotic oh yeah I'm
01:04:21
sure um
01:04:24
yeah even though it wasn't your fault
01:04:27
but no it wasn't my it wasn't my fault
01:04:28
but but it so I fly I fly back early the
01:04:31
next morning my manager picks me up in a
01:04:35
car drives me to the New Zealand
01:04:36
consulate she con somehow convinces them
01:04:39
to give me a emergency passport um which
01:04:43
they grant me so then I get that I go
01:04:46
back to the airport I fly to Canada I go
01:04:49
to bed I wake up the next morning I go
01:04:51
to the Sound Stage we do the dance and
01:04:53
so Zoe desel is one of the girls who's
01:04:55
awesome by the way um really wanted the
01:04:58
part I was so excited like oh my God
01:05:00
it's all happening it's like just just
01:05:02
like that and then we finish the screen
01:05:05
tests and then we all go back to the
01:05:07
airport to to fly back to the to LA and
01:05:11
I um but my passport doesn't have my my
01:05:14
Visa in it I don't actually have the
01:05:16
means to get back into America because
01:05:19
the original Visa was in the passport
01:05:21
that got stolen so when I get to the
01:05:22
immigration they're like so where are
01:05:23
you and technically I wasn't supposed to
01:05:26
be trying to procure work because I was
01:05:28
on a student visa and I so I was in this
01:05:31
sort of very anxious situation and and
01:05:34
the studio people from Sony were like
01:05:36
and the director were like are you okay
01:05:37
because they see me getting shuffled
01:05:39
away into like the secondary inspection
01:05:40
line of the American Immigration I'm
01:05:42
like yeah I'm
01:05:44
fine anyway they give me the third
01:05:46
degree and I and I and I said oh no they
01:05:48
said what are you doing I said oh it's
01:05:49
just summer I'm just visiting friends in
01:05:51
LA and they're like well where's your
01:05:53
Visa I'm like well well my passport sold
01:05:55
and anyway long I mean it was such an
01:05:57
ordeal so they give me a an i 94 form
01:06:01
that allows me to be in the country for
01:06:03
three months during which time they said
01:06:04
I have to then go to the immigration
01:06:06
department and get a new visa after
01:06:10
months of trying I it turns out you
01:06:12
can't get a Visa in the country that you
01:06:15
want to visit you have to get the visa
01:06:17
from an external consulate so anyway so
01:06:20
I got kicked out of the country again uh
01:06:23
then the the Canadians wouldn't take me
01:06:26
because they were worried I was going to
01:06:27
uh scr off their social system or
01:06:29
something and I said look no offense I
01:06:31
don't I I wouldn't want to live in
01:06:33
Canada but they didn't appreciate that
01:06:36
either and so so they so I got I kind of
01:06:39
got stuck so they let me go in for the
01:06:41
night but they took my passport and I
01:06:43
stayed in a in a a hostel by a lake
01:06:46
somewhere in in in Vancouver and it
01:06:48
happened to be my 25th birthday the next
01:06:51
morning and I woke up and I go into the
01:06:52
kitchen there's all these you know
01:06:54
Germans and whatnot and and there's a
01:06:56
guy that I played soccer with at Birkin
01:06:58
hi from when I was like 8 years old he
01:07:00
goes Martin Henderson and I'm like yeah
01:07:02
he's like what are you doing here bro I
01:07:04
thought I thought you you're you're an
01:07:06
actor and I'm like well yeah I'm trying
01:07:09
I'm trying um anyways oh it just went on
01:07:15
and on and on I had to go back to New
01:07:16
York finally to get a special request to
01:07:19
get the visa reinstated but I wasn't
01:07:20
supposed to be trying to procure work
01:07:23
and
01:07:24
um yeah there were a lot I just had a
01:07:27
lot of things like that happen that
01:07:29
were um chaotic you know and what you
01:07:34
look back now was it bad luck or or yeah
01:07:36
I mean was it was it because of you're
01:07:38
drinking and I think some of it I I
01:07:41
think some of it was definitely related
01:07:43
to the lack of attention I was paying to
01:07:46
certain aspects of my life because I was
01:07:48
sort of I don't think I was entirely
01:07:50
present as I could have been um I mean
01:07:54
the breaking into the C that was sort of
01:07:55
bad luck um I mean there were so many
01:07:59
stories like that though I mean that
01:08:01
that time in LA was kind of kind of nuts
01:08:03
and then when I finally so I I I long
01:08:07
story short I you know you go through
01:08:09
the inevitable rejection and then you're
01:08:11
like oh man am I is this really you know
01:08:13
should I be doing this you know but I
01:08:16
always had the carrot of the screen test
01:08:18
you know I was getting so close on
01:08:22
important projects enough of a sniff to
01:08:24
keep you in there that it just felt like
01:08:26
why would you not I mean yes the
01:08:28
rejection sucked and yes it was boring
01:08:30
and and and there were moments where I
01:08:31
was like I don't want to do this anymore
01:08:33
I don't like this identity you know but
01:08:36
I also had these very close calls so I
01:08:38
knew it wasn't it wasn't a fantasy you
01:08:41
know I was that close and I just I just
01:08:43
had to to stay the course and and suck
01:08:46
up whatever I had to it's gambler's
01:08:48
mentality though isn't it it's like one
01:08:49
more one more coin in the slot machine
01:08:52
yeah but I knew I knew but I did say I
01:08:53
said i' give myself five years I said
01:08:55
look I'm not going to be cuz I don't
01:08:58
want to be a struggling artist I'm not
01:08:59
I'm I don't actually find it that that
01:09:01
that interesting I want to be an artist
01:09:04
but if for some reason I can't do it for
01:09:07
reasons outside of my control um then I
01:09:10
will like the accent thing you know I I
01:09:13
I got really close to some big films but
01:09:15
my accent was sort of it would come and
01:09:17
go and it was in and out and I got so
01:09:21
sick in so I was like right that is the
01:09:22
last time I will never I will never be
01:09:25
refused from a job because of my accent
01:09:27
because that is in my control you know
01:09:29
and so I just set to work and I every
01:09:32
day for months bro I just got up had my
01:09:35
breakfast I went back to my bedroom I
01:09:36
shut the door and I just drilled and
01:09:39
drilled and drilled and drilled these
01:09:41
sounds to the point where I could then
01:09:43
go out and get a packet of cigarettes
01:09:45
from a 7-Eleven and the guy had no idea
01:09:47
I wasn't from America and that was my
01:09:49
goal I was like I want to remove all of
01:09:51
the reasons why someone else is saying
01:09:53
no you know and if I remove all of those
01:09:55
and they're still saying no then okay
01:09:57
maybe maybe it's a fate thing
01:10:01
um but luckily you know I I I I started
01:10:04
getting work um I I did a pilot for
01:10:09
ABC um just to pay the bills CU I was so
01:10:13
out of money my mom had let me some
01:10:14
money i' bought the shitty truck that
01:10:16
had three cylinders that that's got to
01:10:19
be that's got to be humbling like having
01:10:20
to call home and say hey Mom yeah it was
01:10:23
that's admission of defeat in a way no
01:10:26
it wasn't defeat man no no but that was
01:10:28
the thing it was it was yeah my mom my
01:10:31
sweet mom you know bless her she she
01:10:33
said absolutely if you know if you
01:10:35
because I said Mom I just I don't know
01:10:38
when it's I can't tell you when it's
01:10:40
going to happen but it's going to happen
01:10:42
so that's refusing defeat absolutely
01:10:44
absolutely def to yeah admitting defeat
01:10:47
would have been to say oh I'm broke I'm
01:10:49
going to go home you know and if M had
01:10:51
said oh look no or I don't have any
01:10:53
money or sorry you know then I would
01:10:55
have I would have found another way you
01:10:56
know I would have got a job I would have
01:10:58
got a job under the table I would have I
01:10:59
would have figured it out and you your
01:11:01
parents were still in your corner at
01:11:03
this point they weren't like come on
01:11:04
come back home I think my dad yeah that
01:11:07
was around the time that my dad's like
01:11:08
look I get it son I know why you'd want
01:11:10
to be there and You' want to be like
01:11:11
Russell Crow and he's done so well but
01:11:15
um uh come back to the
01:11:18
street yeah but no I I knew I think I
01:11:22
knew down um and I could you know for
01:11:26
the first six months or so I pretty much
01:11:29
refused to do TV because I just i' done
01:11:30
so much of it I didn't want to I didn't
01:11:32
want to be stuck on a show for nine
01:11:34
months of the year where you're just
01:11:35
playing the same character potentially
01:11:36
for years and years and years
01:11:40
um but I eventually I I agreed to do a
01:11:43
job on a pilot for an ABC TV
01:11:45
show um just to get some money and pay
01:11:48
my mom back um what was it what was the
01:11:51
show can you remember it was called the
01:11:53
Beast um it never it never made it to
01:11:56
air I don't think although they did pick
01:11:58
it up and I was lucky I didn't have to
01:12:00
go back and do it um but then I'd gotten
01:12:02
a job on Wind Talkers the Nicholas Cage
01:12:04
movie so I was in Hawaii filming that
01:12:06
yeah yeah and the casting woman who who
01:12:10
has been incredible her name is Kelly
01:12:11
lee she's been a huge supporter of mine
01:12:14
she put me in numerous jobs uh over the
01:12:17
years and she's like okay fine good for
01:12:19
you do do your movie we'll we'll recast
01:12:21
Your Role you know with another guy um
01:12:24
so I was like yes I'm not stuck on a TV
01:12:26
show so so that that pilot that you did
01:12:28
for that show the Beast like what what
01:12:30
do you earn for a
01:12:31
pilot is it enough money that you go
01:12:33
thank God I'm I'm I'm okay for the next
01:12:35
few months yes yes it was I remember it
01:12:37
was enough to pay my mom back which I
01:12:39
felt really you know strongly
01:12:42
about um so I paid my mom and then I
01:12:46
yeah I had some money to you know fly to
01:12:48
Paris to see my girlfriend and live
01:12:50
there for a while and um byy cigarettes
01:12:53
and drink coffee and go to museums and
01:12:57
um live a live a life again um so it's
01:13:00
just like keep keeps the Wolves away
01:13:02
from the door for a little bit longer
01:13:03
yeah exactly and then it was like okay
01:13:05
now I've got a six-month visa from that
01:13:07
show now I've got six months you know to
01:13:09
get the next job uh and that was a big
01:13:11
part of what it was about too because my
01:13:13
student visa was about to expire I was
01:13:15
out of money I owed my mom money uh so
01:13:18
it was like okay fine get me a TV job
01:13:20
I'll do a pilot um so
01:13:24
but then that job so I went to uh I
01:13:27
think Heath might have been shooting the
01:13:28
nights tale by then so and I went to
01:13:31
Prague and then I went back to Paris
01:13:33
with my girlfriend and then I was like I
01:13:36
had to come back for something in La
01:13:39
forget what it was and and this was just
01:13:42
this is stupidity so when I got the
01:13:45
pilot they gave me a letter from the
01:13:47
studio and a letter from I think an
01:13:49
immigration agent sort of saying that I
01:13:51
was legally allowed to perform these
01:13:54
services for for six months I could stay
01:13:56
in the states um but what I didn't
01:13:59
realize is when I left the country I
01:14:02
needed to take that paperwork to a cons
01:14:05
US Consulate and get a Visa a work visa
01:14:08
embossed in my passport but I stupidly
01:14:12
got on a plane really hung over from
01:14:14
London I'd gone out my last night
01:14:16
visited some mates from high school that
01:14:18
were flatting there ran into my step
01:14:20
sister had a big night um
01:14:24
got got on a plane on my my card I'm
01:14:28
standing in ATM in SoHo somewhere cuz I
01:14:31
leave the bar and I'm like oh I'll get
01:14:33
some more money out I go I put my card
01:14:35
in and then I guess it's a scam there
01:14:38
right right as the money's comes the
01:14:40
door to the money opens up I I feel this
01:14:43
push and next I'm flying through the air
01:14:45
this guy's side check me I've gone
01:14:48
flying he's grabbed my money and as I
01:14:50
hit the ground I see him grab my money
01:14:52
so I chase him through the Streets of
01:14:54
London finally get him tackle him to the
01:14:57
ground uh grab my money he sort of
01:15:01
shrugs out of a shirt and runs off
01:15:02
shirtless but the friger in the card had
01:15:05
been left in the machine right so then
01:15:07
the next morning I get on I I I get to
01:15:10
the airport I get to Heathrow I buy a
01:15:12
packet of cigarettes I have a coffee I'm
01:15:15
so I'm so hung over I get on the plane
01:15:18
we fly to La I land I'm so dehydrated I
01:15:23
wait in that horrible line I get to the
01:15:25
front I go I give him my passport I hand
01:15:27
over my paperwork from Disney Studios
01:15:30
and the lawyer and I go yeah you go I'm
01:15:32
here you know I've got a Visa for the
01:15:33
thing where's the Visa I'm like well no
01:15:36
that's the paperwork they gave me yeah
01:15:37
but you've got to have a Visa in your
01:15:39
passport I'm like oh come on and he's
01:15:41
like uh he said you have two choices you
01:15:44
either Deport you for not having the
01:15:46
right paperwork or you refuse your right
01:15:48
to entry and I'm like well of course
01:15:50
I'll refuse my right to entry then
01:15:52
because if you Deport it goes on your
01:15:54
thing so then I go down to secondary
01:15:55
inspection and they fingerprint me and
01:15:58
they question me and all I'm like I'm
01:16:01
just just an actor I'm not doing
01:16:02
anything illegal then they put me in a
01:16:04
room with a bunch of other people for
01:16:06
hours and hours they give you a little
01:16:07
sandwich in a box and then about I don't
01:16:11
know late that night they handcuffed me
01:16:15
to these other dudes there was uh three
01:16:17
Brazilian guys and five Chinese guys
01:16:20
they handcuffed me we're chained
01:16:22
together they lead us out they lead this
01:16:26
is true they lead us out of the
01:16:27
inspection Port into a baggage carousel
01:16:31
to to identify where our bags have been
01:16:33
you know and of course an Ann Ze flight
01:16:35
had just arrived and I'm I'm I'm like
01:16:38
yeah I'm like oh my God I mean someone's
01:16:40
gonna go like that's St it from Scher
01:16:42
Street what he's chained up I couldn't
01:16:46
believe it was happening and uh so I I
01:16:49
go yep that's my Mac Pack there they
01:16:51
they put it into a van
01:16:53
uh they put us in a van they drive us
01:16:55
through the night they go to downtown
01:16:57
like deep down down under the under the
01:16:59
ground into a cell they put me in a cell
01:17:01
with these the Chinese guys who for some
01:17:04
reason think I can speak Chinese but the
01:17:05
whole night they just keep talking to me
01:17:07
in Chinese and they clearly wanted me to
01:17:09
call a number and there was something
01:17:11
written in Chinese I'm like bro I can't
01:17:13
help you and then the next morning they
01:17:17
they take me back they give me my bags
01:17:19
they walk me or they drive me back to
01:17:21
the airport and then I had to get on a
01:17:23
flight that I had to pay for to go back
01:17:26
to London um and they walk me on the
01:17:29
plane and uh in handcuffs walk me on the
01:17:31
plane with guys with guns
01:17:34
like I look like over thep I look like a
01:17:37
serious Crim like can you not you just
01:17:39
take the handcuffs off like what are the
01:17:41
people on the plane going to think like
01:17:43
we don't know you won't run kid I'm like
01:17:45
I'm like you've got you've got guns man
01:17:48
like what it was hysterical so this this
01:17:52
is pre 911 right yes this was pre 911 so
01:17:56
this is when they were a little bit more
01:17:57
lenient than what they this was yeah
01:17:59
this was like treating me really nicely
01:18:01
oh my God now now they shoot you on the
01:18:03
spot yeah so I had to go back to London
01:18:06
and wait for my Visa thing and I a
01:18:09
friend of mine was living there with her
01:18:11
new husband and he was a builder so I
01:18:13
just worked building lofts in north of
01:18:15
London for a while until I got the
01:18:17
Visa and uh how long how long is a while
01:18:21
I was I feel like it was only 10 days it
01:18:23
was whenever the appointment happened at
01:18:25
the yeah it was cool so I passed the
01:18:27
time there and earned a bit of pocket
01:18:29
money and learned to yeah put dry wall
01:18:33
up and stuff like that it seems like
01:18:35
you've been really good at just not not
01:18:37
um sitting still or or like brooding or
01:18:40
you're wallowing in self paty like you
01:18:42
me you know you keep yourself busy in
01:18:44
London building Lofts or you put
01:18:45
yourself in your room learn the American
01:18:47
accent so you're always sort of moving
01:18:49
forward yeah yeah yeah yeah take action
01:18:52
right yeah yeah yeah absolutely but
01:18:54
something it's not an instinct to a lot
01:18:56
of people though to take
01:18:58
action but it seems like it just is for
01:19:00
you just a logical yeah I think it's a
01:19:02
logical but I've always I've always been
01:19:04
like that I think from from the earliest
01:19:08
age you know like when I started sailing
01:19:09
I was terrible I was terrible I would
01:19:12
last every time and I remember crying
01:19:15
because I I couldn't get over the start
01:19:17
line and everyone else was sailing off
01:19:18
and I was I was doing everything they
01:19:20
told me with the rudder and the main
01:19:22
sheet and the which way is the wind
01:19:23
coming from and what side of the boat
01:19:24
I'm going be on I could and my cender
01:19:27
border got stuck around the the line
01:19:29
where the the the boy the start boy was
01:19:31
and you know one of the parents came
01:19:33
over with a little tiny and an outboard
01:19:35
and lifted my centerboard and off I went
01:19:37
um so I but I was like right I'm going
01:19:40
to I don't know I just got to figure
01:19:42
this out like there's got to be a reason
01:19:44
why something's not working and what is
01:19:46
the reason once you figure out what the
01:19:47
reason is it's like okay well then how
01:19:49
do you make it work what do you need to
01:19:51
do what what's required you know
01:19:53
um so I think it's just it's it's it's a
01:19:55
logical thing yeah more than a
01:19:58
personality it's just it's
01:20:01
um yeah what what's what what can you
01:20:04
what can you actually
01:20:05
do um and there's usually something you
01:20:09
can do to progress yourself yeah yeah of
01:20:12
course um you mentioned Wind Talkers
01:20:14
before and you said the ni Cage movie um
01:20:17
hell of a castle say Christian Slater
01:20:18
Mark Ruffalo yeah yeah hell of a movie
01:20:20
Brian vanal yeah yeah you have much to
01:20:23
do with those guys like you're in a
01:20:24
trench hanging out with them yeah yeah
01:20:26
that was a lot of fun it was was a lot
01:20:28
of waiting around it was one of those
01:20:29
jobs you know John Woo is spectacular
01:20:33
director and some of those sequences
01:20:35
were so huge and sophisticated with all
01:20:37
the pyrot Technics and the special
01:20:39
effects and the planes and the tanks and
01:20:42
the TR massive massive um setups for
01:20:45
some of these shots um but the waiting
01:20:49
the waiting around for that is is brutal
01:20:51
you know as an actor
01:20:53
and then the weather might not be right
01:20:55
or there'll be one bomb or the plane was
01:20:57
too low or too high or he didn't like
01:20:59
the way some soldiers died you know so
01:21:02
then another half day setup to get it
01:21:04
all set up again and so that movie was
01:21:06
fun but it was also a lot of boring time
01:21:09
just waiting around but that you must
01:21:10
have just been relieved to be on a set
01:21:12
cuz I loved it this is like your first
01:21:14
sort of proper break yeah it was yeah it
01:21:17
was
01:21:18
[Music]
01:21:19
um yes yes definitely and it was you
01:21:22
know we got to do boot camp they put us
01:21:24
I think it was only a week but we did a
01:21:26
week of proper boot camp in Hawaii at
01:21:28
the barracks and we had a proper drill
01:21:30
sergeant and they treated us the way
01:21:32
they treat soldiers and we did all the
01:21:35
physical routine and ate the chow and
01:21:37
weapons training and all the confidence
01:21:40
courses and you must been like this is
01:21:42
nothing I've been detained at LAX yeah
01:21:45
yeah it made my New York days feel like
01:21:47
a yeah um and uh yeah you mentioned like
01:21:51
the the T the the movie Loser before
01:21:53
with um Zoe disel that you missed out on
01:21:56
did you also did you did you meet with
01:21:58
Spielberg from Minority Report or no I
01:22:01
met yeah man you have done your research
01:22:04
bro this is stuff that I don't even
01:22:06
remember uh I met with spilberg oh
01:22:11
gosh I don't know if they even told me
01:22:13
the project to be honest um so you you
01:22:17
missed out on the role that Colin
01:22:18
Ferrell got is that right possibly but I
01:22:21
don't I I don't know I never I never
01:22:23
asked what it was for auditioning to
01:22:26
Steven Spielberg well I I just met him
01:22:28
yeah I I came and someone told him that
01:22:31
he should meet me and um he was getting
01:22:34
ready to do presumably that movie I
01:22:36
actually don't know I never I never
01:22:37
inquired as to what it was about
01:22:40
specifically um if it's a Spielberg
01:22:42
movie you just want to be involved I
01:22:44
don't give is Spielberg yeah or just the
01:22:46
opportunity to meet him too for me it
01:22:49
was more about I get to sit down aside
01:22:52
from will I get a job when I get a job
01:22:54
it was just an honor to sit in his
01:22:56
office and and chitchat you know and and
01:23:00
as you know he's got a a huge interest
01:23:02
in World War II and um like I said my
01:23:05
grandfather flew for the the the Air
01:23:08
Force and um he was in bombers and so I
01:23:12
shared with him my understanding of my
01:23:15
grandfather's participation and and um
01:23:18
and he was quite curious about New
01:23:19
Zealand he asked me a lot of questions
01:23:21
about New Zealand and
01:23:23
um but yeah but it didn't it didn't
01:23:26
eventuate to anything didn't lead to
01:23:28
anything but still but it was just
01:23:29
awesome it was just great like okay this
01:23:31
is yeah there been moments like that I
01:23:33
guess in in my life and my career where
01:23:35
you're just in certain situations and
01:23:37
with people you're like wow this is it's
01:23:40
insane this is exciting yeah yeah it's
01:23:42
cool it's cool it is yeah cuz you would
01:23:45
have been like seven years old when ET
01:23:47
came out yeah I cried my eyes out when
01:23:50
the little heartlight went out and then
01:23:53
oh my God yeah um it's a graay Anatomy
01:23:56
as well you were Dr Nathan rigs yes um
01:24:00
do you have quite a good relationship
01:24:01
with um
01:24:02
Shonda yes rhy you've been in couple of
01:24:04
his shows yeah she's been very very good
01:24:07
to me umit I've actually
01:24:09
done gosh I've done at least two pilots
01:24:14
that didn't even make the air and then I
01:24:16
did a short live show off the map that
01:24:18
she
01:24:19
produced uh and then yeah gry's Anatomy
01:24:22
so yeah yeah how is that sh it's an
01:24:26
iconic TV show and you were Meredith
01:24:29
Gray's boyfriend for a couple years yeah
01:24:32
yeah yeah well I think you know they
01:24:34
they they Derek the character of Derek
01:24:38
uh died um and so I think they they
01:24:42
desperately wanted to put someone in
01:24:44
there to give Meredith some continuing
01:24:48
love interest you know um so I and I
01:24:52
think partly because well I'd been
01:24:56
traveling a lot too I remember I took
01:24:57
that meeting she was do Shonda was doing
01:24:58
two shows at the time she was starting a
01:25:00
new show that I think was being shot in
01:25:03
Vancouver uh which actually sounded
01:25:05
pretty
01:25:06
cool uh and they were wanted to cast a
01:25:09
doctor for graay and she just said to me
01:25:12
what what do you want to do and I said
01:25:14
honestly I've been on the road my whole
01:25:18
life I've spent years living out of a
01:25:20
suitcase in a strange town trying to
01:25:23
figure out where the good cafes
01:25:25
are you know I would love to just be in
01:25:28
La for a while I just want to be at home
01:25:31
and so she's like okay you can do gry's
01:25:33
Anatomy I was like okay um so that's
01:25:35
kind of how that went yeah and then I
01:25:37
got in the car and I drove home and my
01:25:39
manager called said how'd the meeting go
01:25:40
and I was like went great I think she
01:25:42
just offered me the the role of uh on
01:25:44
gr's anatomy and they're like really I'm
01:25:46
like yeah and they like oh cool and then
01:25:48
I realized I don't know what the role is
01:25:50
so I called her back and I'm like hey
01:25:53
just before I say yes what exactly am I
01:25:55
doing I don't we never discussed the
01:25:57
creative here you just and she said I
01:25:59
don't know you'll be a doctor we'll
01:26:00
figure it out you know I was like okay
01:26:02
so that was that's amazing like she's
01:26:05
she's a queen she's the TV Queen she she
01:26:08
is a juggernaut [ __ ] so no you know
01:26:12
you'd assume that they would potentially
01:26:13
be work in the future from her as well
01:26:16
maybe yeah I mean you know I don't don't
01:26:19
presume anything in this business ever
01:26:22
I mean I'd love to yeah obviously work
01:26:25
with her she's incredible yeah she she
01:26:27
even wrote the Britney Spears movie
01:26:29
Crossroads which I think oh I didn't
01:26:30
know that didn't you oh no okay yeah
01:26:32
Crossroads graay Scandal how to get away
01:26:34
with murder bridan inventing Anna the
01:26:36
anadia Scandal I mean so much so much
01:26:39
it's incredible yeah speaking of that so
01:26:41
the do do does it piss you off that um
01:26:44
like 20 years on or whatever it is that
01:26:46
you know people still talk about the
01:26:48
Britney thing I mean it's such a no I
01:26:51
find it funny I mean it's it's nothing
01:26:53
it's a nothing roll though right it's
01:26:54
just like 30 seconds at the end of the
01:26:56
Toxic music video yeah it doesn't piss
01:26:58
me I think I just find it confusing cuz
01:27:00
the so the context of that which I I try
01:27:02
to share with people uh was not me going
01:27:06
I want to be in a Britney Spears video
01:27:07
or or this is an this is an interesting
01:27:09
role um it was purely promotional
01:27:13
because I had done a movie for Warner
01:27:15
Brothers called Talk which was sort of
01:27:18
around the time of fast the fur it's
01:27:19
supposed to be sort of Fast and Furious
01:27:20
on Wheel two wheels you know
01:27:22
um we Shot the movie the the guy who
01:27:25
directed it was a firsttime feature
01:27:27
director by the name of Joseph khah and
01:27:29
Joseph was Britney's main uh music video
01:27:33
director so he had done all of her cool
01:27:35
and he's very very very talented so we
01:27:37
Shot the movie it was being edited or it
01:27:40
had been edited and it was about to be
01:27:42
released and I think Joseph went back to
01:27:45
doing toxic for for Britney and someone
01:27:48
at Warner Brothers went hang on a second
01:27:50
so we've got the director of our movie
01:27:53
who's directing the new Britney Spears
01:27:54
movie why don't we put Martin in the
01:27:56
Britney Spears video and then we can do
01:27:59
a I think they did a MTV behind the
01:28:02
scenes type thing making of the video
01:28:05
and it'll be a promotion it'll be like a
01:28:06
cross promotion and we'll promote uh
01:28:09
talk so I got a call and they said it
01:28:12
was like a Thursday night and they're
01:28:14
like what are you doing this weekend I'm
01:28:15
like nothing and they're like do you
01:28:17
want to come to Warner Brothers on
01:28:19
Saturday to a sound stage and be in a
01:28:21
Britney video to help promote the film
01:28:25
and so I was like sure um I mean that
01:28:28
was my main goal was to promote the
01:28:29
movie that I had done you know um and no
01:28:32
disrespect to Britney I was I was
01:28:34
honored to be in it and it was a lot of
01:28:35
fun and I got to say she I know she
01:28:38
interesting enough very shortly after we
01:28:40
did that video her life took a a much
01:28:44
darker rougher turn that she just seems
01:28:46
to be getting out of now with the
01:28:48
conservative ship thing yeah but you
01:28:49
know she was struggling right after that
01:28:51
there was yeah yeah poor thing went
01:28:53
through so much but I I got to meet her
01:28:56
right before all that happened and um
01:28:59
she she is the nicest sweetest most
01:29:03
genuine just down to earth good old
01:29:06
southern girl you know um so it was sort
01:29:08
of heartbreaking to to witness all of
01:29:10
that other stuff unravel um cuz my
01:29:14
experience with she was just delightful
01:29:15
yeah I just listened to um her book on
01:29:17
AUD B last week it's been a [ __ ] it's a
01:29:19
hell of a life [ __ ] like the stuff her
01:29:22
her dad and the people minding her have
01:29:24
got away with for like over a decade
01:29:26
it's astonishing it's like a horror
01:29:27
movie it's like a it's like a yeah mate
01:29:30
it's just outrageously bad but that's um
01:29:32
yeah that's a fun video but it's uh it's
01:29:34
like it's not even really acting is it
01:29:36
no no no that's why I I'm like why are
01:29:38
we talking about that um it was yeah but
01:29:42
yeah that's why I wonder if if it
01:29:43
annoyed you I think you came on to my
01:29:45
radio show like maybe 10 years ago and
01:29:46
we talked about it and I think we we
01:29:49
joked about whether you got an erection
01:29:50
during it or whatever and it's like I
01:29:52
look back now and it's like your body of
01:29:54
work is so massive it seems like almost
01:29:56
like a disrespectful thing to bring up
01:29:58
in a way CU it's just a nothing well
01:29:59
yeah I think it's just it's was not
01:30:01
acting it wasn't intended to be acting
01:30:03
it wasn't so I don't I never viewed it
01:30:06
as a part of my career so much as a
01:30:08
promot publicity stint um but I think
01:30:11
people because she's such a big star
01:30:14
people kind of saw it as sort of
01:30:17
something that I consciously chose to be
01:30:19
and maybe for the the I don't know the
01:30:21
credibility or the the exposure or
01:30:23
something which hadn't occurred to me I
01:30:26
just I just wanted the making of the
01:30:28
video to to to be able to promote the
01:30:30
movie um which wasn't a great movie but
01:30:33
so I don't think any any promotional
01:30:35
thing would have probably helped in
01:30:37
hindsight when you when you're filming a
01:30:39
movie or a TV show do you know it's do
01:30:41
you know it's bad at the time or do you
01:30:43
when you're doing it do you think this
01:30:44
is going to be the best thing ever and
01:30:45
it's not till afterwards that you
01:30:47
go you really you really don't know um
01:30:52
because there's so many so many factors
01:30:55
that are outside of your control or that
01:30:58
you're just not privy to that you can't
01:31:01
see so you're sort of you do your you do
01:31:04
your part to the best of your ability
01:31:07
and then you have faith that everybody
01:31:08
else involved is going to do their best
01:31:11
and then maybe the collectively you've
01:31:14
produced a product that is the best
01:31:17
version of what the script promised but
01:31:20
of course there's so many variables that
01:31:24
come and go along the way that you're
01:31:27
just you just have to wait and see and
01:31:30
sometimes it can be the editing can be
01:31:32
terrible
01:31:34
sometimes
01:31:36
um I mean as silly as it sounds even the
01:31:38
sound is so important I tell the story
01:31:41
because it's really Illuminating I think
01:31:43
for anyone who's working in in
01:31:45
storytelling and and in audiovisual
01:31:48
medium is when I did the ring for for
01:31:52
DreamWorks and I was actually shooting
01:31:54
torque when the when uh the ring was
01:31:57
about to be premiered and they flew me
01:32:00
out um to to watch the sort of the the
01:32:03
Final Cut of the movie there was a
01:32:05
couple of scenes that they still had to
01:32:06
shoot with like couple of re-shoot with
01:32:08
Naomi and the horse or something um but
01:32:10
essentially it was the exact picture it
01:32:13
was the same movie however the score was
01:32:17
was a temp score cuz they were still
01:32:19
finalizing that in London or something
01:32:22
so in in the meantime the director had
01:32:24
placed um adequate sound in order to
01:32:27
give you a sense of what he wanted in
01:32:29
each moment the movie I walked out of
01:32:32
that screening with my uh my publicist
01:32:34
at the time and my agent and of course
01:32:37
we were so excited because it was a
01:32:39
DreamWorks movie it was a cool script
01:32:42
was Naomi wats who just won a a Golden
01:32:44
Globe for mhand drive and this movie
01:32:48
could really be something and we were so
01:32:49
depr we walked out of that screen we sat
01:32:52
down and we're like okay ironically
01:32:55
we're like well at least we got talk
01:32:57
coming out soon which turned out to be
01:32:59
not a very good movie um and this is
01:33:03
true so about a month later the movie's
01:33:05
finally finished it's being premiered
01:33:08
they helicoptered me in we were shooting
01:33:10
out in the Mojave Desert and in order to
01:33:12
leave set and get to the premere and get
01:33:14
back they had to helicopter me which was
01:33:16
so exciting and I'm and I'm in this
01:33:18
helicopter and you see the 10 freeway
01:33:20
and the desert light and and we we land
01:33:23
in LA and I get my suit and I go to the
01:33:26
premiere but I because I had seen the
01:33:28
the the temp score version of the movie
01:33:31
I was a bit embarrassed about the final
01:33:33
product and I didn't feel confident
01:33:35
going on the red carpet and saying oh
01:33:37
this movie is so great because I I just
01:33:39
I felt like I'd be lying so I I avoided
01:33:42
some of the
01:33:43
press when on the Press line went in sat
01:33:47
the sat down started watching the movie
01:33:49
and about 15 minutes in my agent reaches
01:33:51
over and he grabs my arm he goes bro he
01:33:54
was a kiwi he goes bro this movie is
01:33:56
really good and I'm like you're right
01:33:59
and the only difference was the score
01:34:01
wow and that goes to show you how
01:34:04
imperative the right sound design and
01:34:07
music is to eliciting the
01:34:09
right emotional yeah yeah it was a huge
01:34:13
lesson and and that was a huge movie
01:34:15
right that was many it was huge turned
01:34:16
out yeah I mean probably one of the most
01:34:18
successful movies I've ever been in um
01:34:23
yeah so there you go awes I don't know
01:34:25
what that means but I just to make sure
01:34:28
your score is really good if you make a
01:34:29
movie yeah so why why the um sobriety
01:34:33
was there a moment was there a pivotal
01:34:34
moment was there a night was it just
01:34:37
like an an ongoing thing did you just
01:34:38
get bored of getting wasted it it was a
01:34:43
long
01:34:45
um when I was shooting a show for South
01:34:49
Pacific pictures back in
01:34:53
1990 or
01:34:56
89 um I think it was
01:34:58
1990 Andy Anderson were played my dad
01:35:03
and Andy uh had been sober quite a while
01:35:06
and took that part of his life very
01:35:09
seriously and at the rap party hello
01:35:12
hello KY hello buba hello hello
01:35:17
beautiful
01:35:18
boy boy sorry just is we're getting into
01:35:22
quite a serious story yeah no no no it's
01:35:23
all good um my ex just dropped him off
01:35:26
she's been dog sitting oh you guys have
01:35:28
got shared custody yeah we take it very
01:35:31
serious beautiful
01:35:33
good hey buddy hey oh you're
01:35:38
Friendly's
01:35:40
it how you doing
01:35:45
just sorry hope I didn't interrupt
01:35:47
anything
01:35:49
whote I'll you should first no no I'm
01:35:53
good I've got I've got my water here
01:35:55
thank you really sorry guys that's
01:35:57
what's amazing okay great you see love
01:36:00
to meet you thanks for dropping
01:36:02
by oh yeah so um Andy Anderson so Andy
01:36:05
Anderson pulled me aside at the rap
01:36:07
party and he goes hey Martin do you want
01:36:09
to you want to come outside and see my
01:36:11
motorbike he drove a big fancy 1100 CC
01:36:14
motorbike and I was like oh yeah so I go
01:36:16
out and we're you admiring the engine
01:36:18
and the mufflers and and then he just
01:36:21
sort of says to me said listen I'm going
01:36:22
to tell you something now I was 15 at
01:36:25
the time so I'm going to tell you
01:36:26
something now and you're not going to
01:36:27
believe me and that's fine I don't need
01:36:30
you to believe me right now but one day
01:36:33
you're going to you're going to remember
01:36:34
this conversation and he said you have a
01:36:37
problem with alcohol and you were how
01:36:40
old at the time I was 15 right and he
01:36:42
had you even started drinking at that
01:36:44
yeah I started drinking yeah yeah yeah I
01:36:46
mean yeah there was a reason he said
01:36:49
it um yeah and and so of course true to
01:36:55
his word I didn't believe a word he said
01:36:56
I thought he was out of his mind I mean
01:36:58
I thought this this guy was nuts a
01:37:00
little you know I mean what's he talking
01:37:01
about what made him single single you
01:37:04
out do you think so I'm guessing at the
01:37:05
age of 15 you were drinking no
01:37:07
differently to any of your
01:37:08
peers some of my peers yeah but I think
01:37:13
I mean I was definitely displaying a uh
01:37:17
a like for alcohol that went beyond what
01:37:20
he Okay saw as just a social interaction
01:37:24
you know and so maybe he could see see
01:37:27
himself as a young man in you yeah or
01:37:29
even himself as an older man you know I
01:37:31
just just that those traits you know and
01:37:33
um so that that was the first time that
01:37:36
it had been brought to my attention that
01:37:38
maybe my relationship with alcohol was
01:37:41
not a healthy one and you kept going for
01:37:45
oh mate did I ever I mean it it fell on
01:37:47
deaf ears I was I was not even I
01:37:51
couldn't begin to accept that as
01:37:53
anything other than hogwash you know it
01:37:55
stuck with you though didn't it that in
01:37:58
hindsight it did yeah but I mean I was
01:38:00
like whatever Andy good on you um but
01:38:04
there were there were other instances
01:38:06
and people who also pointed out um that
01:38:11
maybe I needed to look at it um and I
01:38:15
think the most effective one was when I
01:38:18
was in Sydney before I left Australia to
01:38:20
move to New York and as I said I was
01:38:22
working with this woman Annie Swan who
01:38:24
became a mentor of mine really
01:38:28
um and she she also sort of said you
01:38:31
know you have
01:38:34
everything going for you whereby you can
01:38:37
create a really wonderful life she said
01:38:39
you you're talented you you you're smart
01:38:42
you you you you literally can have a
01:38:44
really great life she said but the one
01:38:46
thing that could interfere with that or
01:38:50
limit
01:38:51
the kind of life you can live is is your
01:38:55
your your alcohol use and um I think
01:38:59
because I'd been working with her so
01:39:01
intensely for for a couple of years by
01:39:04
that point I had so much love for her
01:39:07
and I knew she had genuine love for me
01:39:09
there was such mutual respect that that
01:39:12
that hit me in a way that I knew that
01:39:14
that woman was would only ever say that
01:39:17
because she truly thought it was was
01:39:20
right
01:39:21
um and it and it just landed in a way uh
01:39:24
and she she suggested I go with another
01:39:27
student of hers that would come who was
01:39:29
studying Shakespeare and go to a meeting
01:39:31
and this guy he was an older actor and
01:39:33
and he took me along to a meeting up at
01:39:35
King's Cross or somewhere and um so I
01:39:39
went along kind of rolling my eyes like
01:39:41
oh whatever I'll cynicism yeah I thought
01:39:44
I thought I'll I'll sort of appease
01:39:47
Annie you know um but I you know I sat
01:39:51
in that meeting and and there was a
01:39:53
woman funny enough who got up and that's
01:39:55
what kind of surprised me because I
01:39:56
thought oh maybe there's a dude that
01:39:58
gets up there that I relate to but this
01:39:59
was a a female woman older than me and
01:40:03
she just spoke honestly about her true
01:40:06
relationship with alcohol and um and her
01:40:09
life and and what her life had been
01:40:12
before she got sober and what her life
01:40:13
was now that she was sober and I just
01:40:16
this this this light went off and and it
01:40:18
hit me it hit me in that deep part of
01:40:21
myself that I knew that you know I
01:40:23
related and I went oh man damn it the
01:40:26
part's going to be
01:40:28
over was the party over immediately no
01:40:31
of course not no no I didn't want the
01:40:34
party to end I love a party I love a
01:40:37
party more than as much as anyone what
01:40:39
was it just alcohol or was it co a
01:40:41
little bit of Co I was a little bit of
01:40:43
drugs in Sydney um yeah over those years
01:40:46
um but it was yeah it was really just
01:40:48
alcohol and it was part of it was oh
01:40:51
like cocaine and drugs are sort of like
01:40:53
a supplement to help you drink more
01:40:54
aren't they really yeah and it was just
01:40:56
sort of yeah You' just keep going I
01:40:59
would I just didn't want the party to
01:41:01
end that was it for me it wasn't um I
01:41:05
wasn't like an angry drunk or it was if
01:41:08
anything no rock bottom or anything no
01:41:11
but there was there were definitely
01:41:12
after that sort of moment of like o she
01:41:15
might have a point I attempted sobriety
01:41:18
on my own I I I I think I clocked up 5
01:41:20
months actually after I left
01:41:23
um I think yeah was it I think no just
01:41:27
before I left Australia I um I I think I
01:41:30
did six five months of sobriety on my
01:41:33
own um and it was quite amazing and even
01:41:36
those five months were sort of a
01:41:37
revelation I'd wake up on a Saturday at
01:41:40
like 8 you know instead of 11: and and
01:41:44
clear-headed and and I remember I went
01:41:46
out for a walk and there was a someone
01:41:48
was having a a garage sale and there was
01:41:51
all this kind of cool old furniture and
01:41:54
I bought a couple of pieces for for 10
01:41:57
bucks and went home and sort of got to
01:42:00
started working on it and sanding it and
01:42:02
painting it and kind of I got creative I
01:42:04
just found like instantly there was this
01:42:07
relationship between me not drinking and
01:42:09
how much more of myself was available to
01:42:13
to be creative or um so many more
01:42:15
productive hours in the day yeah it's
01:42:17
funny yeah I've heard Bradley Cooper
01:42:19
talk about the same thing and just
01:42:21
yeah he's been sober for like 20 odd
01:42:22
years just just the impact it's had on
01:42:25
his life and career and um I Heard a
01:42:27
podcast with steo you know steo from
01:42:29
Jack sure he talked about how um
01:42:33
addiction and alcoholism is the only
01:42:35
illness where when you get rid of it
01:42:37
your life gets so much better he said if
01:42:39
you have cancer all you want to do is
01:42:41
get back to how you were before yeah but
01:42:43
he said alcoholism and drug addiction
01:42:45
it's the only thing when you give it up
01:42:46
your life is going to get better oh yeah
01:42:48
infinitely yeah do you miss it though at
01:42:50
all or not now it's been so long no I
01:42:54
mean no I mean I I can kind of think
01:42:57
back to some of the fun times you know
01:43:00
and sort of go oh that was that was fun
01:43:04
but I think
01:43:05
about the the times that I've had since
01:43:09
sobriety the quality of those you know I
01:43:12
mean the the the the sort of the deeper
01:43:15
experience of myself and my
01:43:18
relationships my career my work my
01:43:21
health um everything Finance just the
01:43:25
way you make decisions I just feel like
01:43:28
I would never give up that for uh a bit
01:43:32
of a laugh you know and I can still have
01:43:33
a laugh anyway so no there's no like
01:43:35
kind of like oh man that was those were
01:43:37
the days no I mean it was fun it was
01:43:40
definitely fun and and I think I'm
01:43:43
fortunate that I got to have some of
01:43:45
those fun crazy you know debed moments
01:43:50
at an age where you know I didn't have
01:43:52
too much to lose and I didn't continue
01:43:55
that on into you know a broken marriage
01:43:57
or a failed career or failing Health
01:44:01
yeah yeah you criminal all those things
01:44:03
that that are sometimes a consequence of
01:44:05
it so um yeah but I feel lucky that I
01:44:10
just had people in my life that I loved
01:44:13
that loved me enough that I was that
01:44:16
they were able to tell me that truth and
01:44:18
I was open to it um and I'll ever
01:44:21
forever be grateful for that cuz um I
01:44:23
think I on my own I was in Deni I just
01:44:25
thought I was having a good time and I
01:44:27
didn't want anyone to take away my toys
01:44:29
you know um of course you didn't yeah
01:44:33
um I know you're you're um a reasonably
01:44:35
private guy but you my private I guess
01:44:37
I'm private
01:44:39
about yeah that that part of my life I
01:44:41
don't know why I think maybe because I
01:44:44
got famous so young in New Zealand and I
01:44:46
felt like by the time I was
01:44:49
17 I I just felt so exposed that and and
01:44:53
by virtue of what I do there's always
01:44:55
going to be that public element um that
01:45:00
some of that stuff feels like it should
01:45:02
be some of your private life should be
01:45:04
sacred somehow 100% otherwise it's all
01:45:06
for I don't know like it's up for gossip
01:45:10
or titilation or not that I'm hiding
01:45:13
anything it's just sometimes you want
01:45:14
that to be between you and and and the
01:45:18
people that that you're really close to
01:45:21
and priv private not secret I guess is
01:45:25
see yeah oh that makes perfect sense
01:45:27
from my years of um like doing breakfast
01:45:30
radio you find the more of yourself you
01:45:31
give away you form more of a connection
01:45:33
with the audience um but JJ who just
01:45:37
before we gave away so much of ourselves
01:45:39
you know you talk about your infertility
01:45:41
struggles and things like that and once
01:45:43
you've given it away you can't take it
01:45:44
back again yeah and I think I mean we
01:45:46
live in a weird time too with social
01:45:48
media where now it's it's sort of it's
01:45:52
rude to go to just unburden every aspect
01:45:56
of your life either through images or
01:45:59
video or commentary or or comments or
01:46:02
you know people getting into argument
01:46:04
you know I just find it it really odd
01:46:08
maybe because I spent my most of my life
01:46:12
in the public view to me it just it just
01:46:15
seems odd to share everything but but
01:46:19
but but but the Counterpoint is too
01:46:22
there's this wonderful uh access that we
01:46:25
have to people like one of the things I
01:46:27
hated about being a young actor was the
01:46:29
idea that You' you'd go to work You' put
01:46:32
the costume on you'd perform you'd help
01:46:35
create a product hopefully people
01:46:38
enjoyed and then you had to go and
01:46:40
promote it and the way you had to
01:46:41
promote it just felt so false that you
01:46:45
know you wear these clothes that are
01:46:46
stylist has bought that you'd never
01:46:48
[ __ ] wear and they do your hair in a
01:46:50
way that you never and then you're
01:46:51
you're sort of and it's it was all this
01:46:53
sort of [ __ ] that I hated I hated it
01:46:57
with a passion it just felt so fake uh
01:46:59
and I was like but my job is to be real
01:47:01
my job is to get in front of a camera
01:47:03
and try to pretend the camera's not
01:47:04
there and be as real as I can about the
01:47:06
human condition that this particular
01:47:08
character is experiencing and now I've
01:47:10
got to got to kind of be full of [ __ ] to
01:47:13
sell it and I I hated that so much and I
01:47:16
actually quite like that with social
01:47:18
media now there's this immediate
01:47:20
connection to your fans where it's just
01:47:22
you being you and they actually want you
01:47:24
you they'd be more interested in seeing
01:47:26
you roll out of bed you know and have a
01:47:30
have a bowl of porridge and talk about
01:47:32
what you're doing that day and be very
01:47:33
candid and real than the sort of over
01:47:36
manufactured glamorized version of
01:47:38
yourself yeah and you you're very good
01:47:40
at that you've got um like over 1
01:47:41
million followers on Instagram um you've
01:47:43
just you're back here in New Zealand
01:47:44
working on a couple of New Zealand shows
01:47:46
including um one that my ex-girlfriend
01:47:47
uh works on my life is murder and and
01:47:50
she was telling me just how she the one
01:47:52
that dropped the dog off oh no no no no
01:47:55
this is Liz she's um oh walks I don't
01:47:58
know what she does walks around with a
01:47:59
like a like a belt with a walkie-talkie
01:48:01
on ad ad yeah um but she she talked
01:48:04
about just how how gregorious and
01:48:06
wonderful you were on the set and how on
01:48:09
day one you know you you ask if you're
01:48:10
allowed to film and what you're allowed
01:48:11
to share and you share it on social
01:48:13
media and for a little New Zealand
01:48:14
production with some New Zealand on air
01:48:16
funding I think they would have been
01:48:17
froing about that oh good good I I hope
01:48:21
so I mean I felt important for me as a
01:48:23
kiwi you know growing up here it's and
01:48:27
my most of my my career obviously has
01:48:30
been in in the States since well since
01:48:32
leaving Australia but I think yeah being
01:48:36
from here and being still being
01:48:38
connected to the local industry and
01:48:40
trying to support that is important
01:48:42
because I feel like that as I've talked
01:48:44
about all day today has been a big part
01:48:46
of my sort of Journey and and and and
01:48:49
where I've ended up is is is because
01:48:52
I've come from here you know and what I
01:48:53
learned here and the way the opportuni
01:48:56
as I was given at a really young age and
01:48:58
how I was supported so yeah I'm glad and
01:49:02
what are you up to after this not this
01:49:04
podcast specifically but when you leave
01:49:05
New Zealand again are you season six of
01:49:08
of Virgin River yeah we Wen you
01:49:10
reluctant to do that in the beginning
01:49:12
you got off at Virgin River I guess this
01:49:13
was five years ago and you you were
01:49:15
dragging your heels uh yeah I there was
01:49:18
there was a version of it you know it it
01:49:20
was no secret that it was it was derived
01:49:22
from um a romance novel um and not being
01:49:29
a one who reads romance novels or
01:49:31
watches shows that are like that I I
01:49:35
wasn't that aware but I I knew enough
01:49:37
that there could be a really bad version
01:49:38
of this um so I had some reservations
01:49:41
about how how the show would be
01:49:45
presented and how the characters would
01:49:46
be be presented and I felt it was imp
01:49:50
erative that at least my role is the
01:49:52
only thing I could control felt uh that
01:49:54
it had some substance to it and some
01:49:57
depth and some believability so yeah I
01:50:00
had some I definitely had some
01:50:01
reservations about it um but you know
01:50:04
but the writers and I called them and
01:50:06
I'm like yeah I'm not really not sure
01:50:07
and they they said look we we understand
01:50:10
but we we really do want to make this
01:50:12
character as interesting as we can and
01:50:14
and they sort of put some of my fears to
01:50:17
bed and then you know then you roll the
01:50:19
dice man you still don't know if they're
01:50:21
they're just telling you what you want
01:50:22
to hear to get you involved um but yeah
01:50:26
I mean it's been wildly successful you
01:50:29
must feel that yourself but also Netflix
01:50:30
don't [ __ ] around like if a Show's not
01:50:32
working it's not going to get another
01:50:33
season simple as that yeah so you can't
01:50:35
argue with um five seasons going into
01:50:37
number six it's phenomenal it's nuts
01:50:39
super successful yeah yeah which um so
01:50:42
your grace Anatomy that was probably you
01:50:45
know huge for your fan base as well you
01:50:46
must have noticed like a like a you know
01:50:52
new sort of demograph new sort of fan
01:50:53
base you find the same thing again with
01:50:55
Virgin River yeah different demographic
01:50:58
yeah um I mean what's interesting about
01:51:00
graay is that it's been around for so
01:51:03
long that
01:51:04
the huge amount of its Resurgence is due
01:51:07
to the fact that it was released on
01:51:10
Netflix and it found all these teenagers
01:51:13
so that's part of why you know i' I've
01:51:15
got younger audience like that but the
01:51:17
audience for Virgin River I think skewes
01:51:21
you know old way older than that um but
01:51:24
at first I thought Virgin River was
01:51:26
going to I understood why you know a lot
01:51:28
of the fan bases older women um
01:51:32
grandmothers and all that and you know
01:51:35
there's a wholesome sweetness to it and
01:51:37
I understood its appeal uh so that
01:51:39
wasn't really a shock um but more and
01:51:42
more was just how many younger people
01:51:45
like the show and dudes like what's
01:51:47
surprising to me I don't really have
01:51:48
them reaching out on Instagram there's
01:51:50
not a lot of dudes you know sliding into
01:51:52
your D no but but out and about you know
01:51:54
you'll be somewhere and you'll check
01:51:56
into an Airbnb and and and the owners
01:51:59
might be there like oh wow you and the
01:52:01
husband are like oh we love your show
01:52:03
man we love watching your show and I'm
01:52:05
always really pleasantly surprised that
01:52:07
it has that wider appeal cuz I just
01:52:11
didn't really foresee it having having
01:52:13
quite the attraction that it that it
01:52:16
that it does
01:52:17
so yeah yeah and you never know man I
01:52:20
mean that's the thing hey you know
01:52:23
um yeah you're always sort of rolling
01:52:25
the dice with what what what the show
01:52:28
you know will end up being and if it'll
01:52:30
do well and what that means for your
01:52:32
life so there you're always improvising
01:52:34
with your own life like now Vancouver's
01:52:36
become this huge part of my life for
01:52:38
could be wor a decade yeah Vancouver's
01:52:41
not bad yeah yeah um yeah um the money
01:52:45
must be Sensational After Five Seasons
01:52:47
it's getting better getting better yeah
01:52:50
it's getting better they um yeah yeah
01:52:54
we're it's not friends money yet but no
01:52:56
and I don't well I think given that
01:52:58
Netflix is not a network show it can't
01:53:02
be syndicated in the way that those
01:53:04
shows were and and are yeah although I
01:53:07
think part of that discrepancy is being
01:53:10
addressed with the latest round of the
01:53:12
Union negotiation so I think there is
01:53:14
now a provision for sort of a res
01:53:17
residual type um compens ation to actors
01:53:20
that are in shows that are proven to be
01:53:24
of a certain level of success but how
01:53:27
the how the equation works out and how
01:53:29
they actually
01:53:31
quantify a whether you meet a threshold
01:53:34
and then how you get paid accordingly I
01:53:36
don't I haven't understood that math yet
01:53:38
but I think there may be an opportunity
01:53:40
now with the new contracts that we
01:53:42
because we don't see a scent even though
01:53:44
the show's wildly popular in Israel and
01:53:48
the UK and France and Belgium in Brazil
01:53:50
and the Netherlands and New Zealand you
01:53:52
don't see a scent of that you like a
01:53:54
flat rate you're acting money and that's
01:53:56
it yes yeah yeah which you know
01:53:58
obviously is not uh as as good as what
01:54:03
it was it's not how David Hasselhoff
01:54:04
made his money on bayw no no exactly and
01:54:06
that's just because we're in this new
01:54:08
era of streaming and and and it's a
01:54:10
different uh business model so um
01:54:14
hopefully you know if the show continues
01:54:15
to to keep its appeal then we may get
01:54:18
some something from that though from the
01:54:20
international success yeah God it's been
01:54:22
a blast sitting down with you today you
01:54:25
it feels like you're in such a good
01:54:27
place you're so comfortable in your own
01:54:28
skin you know who you are you know what
01:54:30
you are you're not trying to prove
01:54:31
anything to anyone it seems like Life's
01:54:34
good and it seems like life's been good
01:54:35
for you for a long time thanks man um
01:54:39
yeah life I mean I I I fun fundamentally
01:54:43
have always believe that life itself is
01:54:45
good and I've sort of tried to orientate
01:54:48
myself to that belief
01:54:52
um and yeah and it has been good good to
01:54:57
me and again you know talking about the
01:54:59
sobriety thing too I think um that was
01:55:03
also a huge Turning Point too where I
01:55:06
think I started being good to myself in
01:55:09
a really real real sense and able to
01:55:13
look at myself and you know I I went
01:55:15
into therapy too there was a lot of
01:55:17
stuff we we talked about the divorce
01:55:19
things and
01:55:20
a lot of these issues that I think I had
01:55:23
growing up that um unexamined were sort
01:55:27
of fears of mine around relationships
01:55:31
and um just you know the the the classic
01:55:35
sort of stuff that when it's hidden in
01:55:37
the dark and I was drinking to sort of
01:55:40
try to avoid facing it yeah yeah and
01:55:43
then and then when I stopped that kind
01:55:45
of ripped the Band-Aid off and through
01:55:47
the help of you know a therapist was
01:55:49
able to really look at some of these
01:55:51
things that were plaguing me that were
01:55:52
deep down that I was terrified to look
01:55:54
at and then you you're bringing them to
01:55:55
the light of the day and they're most of
01:55:57
the time they're just your your your
01:56:00
feelings or your thoughts you know and
01:56:01
sometimes they're based on on fear and
01:56:04
they're not real and and to be able to
01:56:06
sort of shed light into that part of my
01:56:09
life I think has allowed me
01:56:11
to yeah grow into the person you are
01:56:14
toight yeah and accept myself and and
01:56:15
love myself and be comfortable and um
01:56:19
and sort of also think realize that it's
01:56:22
not all about you I think I I I work in
01:56:24
a in in an industry and a and a
01:56:28
particular job that is can be very much
01:56:31
all about you and I I kind of work to
01:56:34
sort of not make that a reality because
01:56:38
I think you know there's so much more at
01:56:40
play and looking at the bigger picture
01:56:42
spiritually and and um within a
01:56:46
community and sort of sort of trying to
01:56:48
get out of yourself more I think helps
01:56:50
me keep a really good perspective on on
01:56:53
it all yeah so when was the therapy was
01:56:56
that late 20s was that after the
01:56:58
sobriety yes it
01:57:01
was I'm trying to think if I went I
01:57:03
think I did I go
01:57:04
to therapist before I got sober I might
01:57:08
have sat down no it was actually when I
01:57:12
got sober I was in a relationship we
01:57:16
were arguing a lot and we both both
01:57:19
wanted it to work but we didn't seem to
01:57:21
be able to make it work and she
01:57:23
suggested that I go with her to her
01:57:25
therapist and see if we could figure it
01:57:27
out which I thought was really unfair
01:57:28
I'm like I don't want to go to your
01:57:30
therapist she's going to be on your side
01:57:32
and you know what about why we choose my
01:57:34
therapist or a neutral one but anyway I
01:57:36
put my ego aside I went along and
01:57:40
um uh and that was yeah that was the
01:57:43
sort of the start um we ended up
01:57:45
breaking up but I actually kept going to
01:57:47
see the therapist um
01:57:50
because she helped me see that I was
01:57:53
just shooting myself in the foot you
01:57:55
know I wasn't self sabotaging yeah yeah
01:57:57
and and I had a lot to learn I I mean
01:57:59
man I had a lot to learn and I had to
01:58:02
grow up and um and face stuff and and um
01:58:08
yeah so it's that was that was sort of
01:58:09
the beginning around 27 yeah has your
01:58:12
mental health mostly been good over the
01:58:13
years it has since then yeah yeah really
01:58:16
yeah but like like I said with support
01:58:19
you know um and I've struggled you know
01:58:22
I definitely have had periods where I
01:58:26
felt I struggled with anxiety for a
01:58:29
while and some depression and
01:58:32
um and I had to really do a lot of lot
01:58:35
of
01:58:36
self-work you know and really examine
01:58:38
what what was going on and was that
01:58:40
anxiety and depression that was sort of
01:58:42
understandable like when you're going
01:58:43
for two two to three years without any
01:58:45
work or was it sort of unexplained I
01:58:48
think some of it was was was sort of
01:58:50
existential sort of just
01:58:54
um maybe related to that maybe being in
01:58:57
relationships that weren't healthy and
01:58:59
sort of like feeling like oh I got to
01:59:00
make it work and being in denial about
01:59:03
them and um and but then sort of and
01:59:06
then it's easy to say well well clearly
01:59:08
it's didn't work because she this or but
01:59:11
it's like why was I choosing that you
01:59:13
know what is it in me that is not being
01:59:15
examined why I thought that was a good
01:59:16
idea in the first place what level of
01:59:19
denial you know um and why would I CH
01:59:22
why would I think that I I would why
01:59:25
would I choose that for myself you know
01:59:27
if I was really taking care of myself
01:59:29
I'd actually make a much wiser decision
01:59:31
so what are what are the things that are
01:59:33
operating in in me that are still
01:59:35
holding me back from actually treating
01:59:39
myself in the best possible way and why
01:59:41
don't I love myself enough you know so
01:59:43
what am I holding on to what what sort
01:59:45
of self- flatulating judgments am I
01:59:48
carrying on and and and where did they
01:59:49
come from and that's where therapy for
01:59:51
me helped me go like maybe it was
01:59:53
something you know a parent said or did
01:59:55
or didn't do or didn't say that I felt
01:59:58
like should have happened or didn't and
02:00:00
and then realizing how how as a as a man
02:00:03
I'm still carrying on with sort of
02:00:06
seven-year-old Mar's wounds and I'm
02:00:09
carrying that out into adult
02:00:10
relationships and thinking they're going
02:00:11
to be healthy and you know so there I
02:00:13
mean that yeah there's been it's a lot
02:00:15
it's like pulling a strand of cotton on
02:00:17
a t-shirt yeah yeah yeah yeah but and
02:00:20
and I think and it always continues I'm
02:00:22
still challenged by some of my attitudes
02:00:24
you know and relationships today where
02:00:26
I'm like oh that's you know that's not
02:00:28
healthy I need to choose you know a
02:00:32
healthier way of conducting myself or
02:00:35
expressing myself and um and it takes
02:00:38
humility because then it's you know the
02:00:39
ego gets involved and it's hard to admit
02:00:42
that you're you're you're wrong and um
02:00:45
you have to grow up and but there's no
02:00:47
way around it right you just got to go
02:00:49
through it
02:00:50
and keep learning and keep working keep
02:00:53
grinding yeah totally yeah keep trying
02:00:54
to be better than the day before
02:00:56
absolutely yeah do you you've never been
02:00:57
married he no do you want you want to
02:00:59
get married would you like to get
02:01:00
married one day yeah yeah I'll get
02:01:01
married yeah yeah yeah do you think so
02:01:03
yeah and what about um so your partner
02:01:05
at the moment uh she's got got kids yeah
02:01:08
did you did you want your own biological
02:01:10
kids or you're not fuss about it yeah
02:01:13
ship sailed for you or I don't know I
02:01:15
think that's one of those things that
02:01:17
I'm sort of open to see what what life
02:01:20
brings you know there's that famous
02:01:22
quote by I think it was John Lennon
02:01:25
life's what happens when you're busy
02:01:26
making plans yeah and sometimes I find
02:01:29
that really true um and I'm just that
02:01:33
stuff some of the big big stuff in life
02:01:36
you know I I have a lot of faith and my
02:01:39
work sorry my work my life works really
02:01:43
well when I
02:01:45
find faith and I get out of the way of
02:01:49
some of like feeling like I've got to
02:01:50
make things happen or I've got to
02:01:52
control things just like trusting in the
02:01:54
universe yeah yeah and I've sort of
02:01:56
that's definitely one of those things
02:01:57
that I've said you know what if it's
02:01:59
meant to be it's going to be meant to be
02:02:01
and as long as I approach whatever the
02:02:04
situation is with the most amount of
02:02:06
love I can for myself and the other
02:02:10
people involved in any of those
02:02:11
equations then it tends to work out for
02:02:14
the best um so we'll see I like that
02:02:19
you're a good man you could be a real
02:02:21
you could be a real dick and get away
02:02:23
with it why
02:02:26
then know I know I know you could but
02:02:29
it's like you've You' you know you've
02:02:30
done the work and you've you know you
02:02:32
deserve the success that you're
02:02:34
experiencing at the moment oh thanks and
02:02:36
you just seem like and and outside of
02:02:38
work you just seem like a a [ __ ] good
02:02:40
bastard as well oh thanks like a good
02:02:42
dude and it's been an absolute pleasure
02:02:44
to sit down with you today thank you for
02:02:45
being so generous with your time yeah oh
02:02:47
it's a pleasure and I know this has been
02:02:48
a long time trying to get us in the room
02:02:51
but um I've listened to some of the work
02:02:53
you've done and conversely man I think
02:02:56
you yeah you you seem to really want to
02:02:59
put out there you seem to have a genuine
02:03:01
interest in the people you talk to and I
02:03:03
think that's some reflection of your own
02:03:06
your curiosity about yourself and life
02:03:09
and yeah and I and I like that you
02:03:11
promote you seem to talk a bit about me
02:03:13
mental health and you're actually
02:03:14
interested in the the true Human
02:03:16
Experience not just the the the story
02:03:19
and the glitz and the glamour you know
02:03:20
and I think that's uh a testament to
02:03:23
obviously who you are and I respect that
02:03:25
and so I feel like coming on a show like
02:03:27
this feels um feels like the right thing
02:03:31
to do oh thank you I I think it's just
02:03:32
an understanding as you get older you
02:03:34
realize that life for nobody is a
02:03:36
highlight real no man yeah you know
02:03:39
there's Life's a it's a messy existence
02:03:41
and um and we're all in it we're all
02:03:43
dude we're all in it and I think that's
02:03:45
one of the most amazing things that I've
02:03:47
found from from attending
02:03:49
uh AA meetings and sitting in the room
02:03:51
and and just hearing people talk and it
02:03:55
could be an
02:03:57
80-year-old uh you know Egyptian woman
02:04:00
who's an immigrant talking about
02:04:03
something going on in her life or her
02:04:05
family or in her heart and I realized oh
02:04:07
my God I'm we're exactly the same and we
02:04:10
really are it's just the clothing or the
02:04:12
accent or the The Tint of your skin or
02:04:17
what you do for a job or you know who
02:04:20
you vote for or what church you go to or
02:04:23
we've all got more in common than what
02:04:24
we don't have in common without doubt
02:04:27
you know without a doubt so I think yeah
02:04:29
if you if you can
02:04:31
feel comfortable enough to to be honest
02:04:34
about your journey then then maybe
02:04:36
there's one person out there because
02:04:37
there's been a lot of people like I've
02:04:39
[ __ ] about today that have been honest
02:04:41
with me or I've gleaned something from
02:04:44
at a young age and and been inspired by
02:04:47
or or educated by so I think it's it's
02:04:50
so it's so important that we're
02:04:52
transparent about our experience so that
02:04:54
someone else out there might develop
02:04:56
some health or or get get inspired to do
02:04:59
something or find the courage to do
02:05:01
something or um or not or
02:05:05
just just just delete move on to
02:05:07
something they find more interesting
02:05:09
which is cool too 100% hey Maron thank
02:05:12
you so much for your time it's been over
02:05:14
two hours and uh I I can't I can't thank
02:05:17
you enough and I hope it's been an
02:05:19
joyable and even cathartic experience
02:05:20
for you to you reminisce on yeah it has
02:05:23
you brought up You' brought up a lot of
02:05:25
things that I've totally forgotten about
02:05:26
and it's nice to yeah remember the
02:05:29
journey you know yeah it's cool and long
02:05:31
may your success continue it's quite
02:05:33
funny when um you know when I was like
02:05:36
25 27 the same age as you got sober um I
02:05:39
would have thought 50 was old as [ __ ]
02:05:41
like life is over sort of thing and then
02:05:43
when you get here you realize actually
02:05:44
it's not no and there's still so much to
02:05:46
learn and and and get rid of and move
02:05:50
and yeah I um I I really same thing I
02:05:54
was out yesterday with a I was at work
02:05:56
actually finish your work and the makeup
02:05:59
artist was turning 40 and we were
02:06:01
laughing about how when you're a little
02:06:02
kid and your mom turned 40 how old that
02:06:05
felt then you get there and you're like
02:06:07
it's it's not the Doom and Gloom that
02:06:09
you think it's no no just got to take
02:06:11
care of the body I think that's yeah
02:06:14
otherwise if that starts to go then you
02:06:16
you your joy can dimin
02:06:19
greatly you know absolutely yeah hey
02:06:21
thank you so much for your time an
02:06:23
absolute pleasure y yep yeah I
02:06:25
appreciate likewise thank you
