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Michael HST welcome to my podcast thank
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you Kilda how are you good good I can't
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believe this is the first time um we've
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we've met in real life you and I were
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practically neighbors for like 15 15 20
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years so it seems yeah I but I never saw
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you running past I um yeah we were like
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maybe 100 meters apart I was just up the
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street from you I'd pass your house
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every day on the way to the the countown
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supermarket sometimes you'd be out on
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your on on your chair on the front deck
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um reading shirtless other times I'd
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hear you singing from an open window
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actually that's one of sitting on the FR
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those particular front steps in the sun
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on a summers's afternoon with a book and
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a beer that's probably the one thing I
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miss most about you know cuz we just
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moved from that place there for 28 years
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which is quite significant but yeah that
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is the thing I would that was the thing
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I would default to end of the day go and
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sit with the book and sit in the sun
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beautiful yeah by the way is is that
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kind of um yeah we'll talk about that
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house for a little bit because um yeah
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yeah the the the house that I was at
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just up the road from you on the um the
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sort of um cross intersection yeah um I
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had that for like 20 years and um I went
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through a lot there and then um you know
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when I when I left it was um it was
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quite a sad occasion actually but I had
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to remind myself that memories are
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something you keep internally and the
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house doesn't actually keep them but
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yeah for you you and you and your wife
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Jennifer yeah you had your two kids and
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they were home births as well the kids
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were born x marks the spot or did Mark
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the Spot yeah no born in the living room
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yeah 28 years we were there um and but
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the thing is we had
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decided some years back maybe two years
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back probably a bit longer I planted the
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seed of um hey what are we going to be
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doing in the next decade CU as you get
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older you start thinking it's it's not
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that I'm afraid of getting old I'm
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loving it but you know they are
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interesting years aren't they that
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between 60 and 70 is a lot different to
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between 50 and 60 or 40 and 50 and so on
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so and I planted the idea that we should
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probably get a place that you know less
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not wood not made of wood you know
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stairs stairs no stairs and low
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maintenance and then you know we we were
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thinking about it for a while and then
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Jennifer who's really canny at this
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stuff she saw this
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uh uh apartment on the plans and we went
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and had a look and realized that one
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wasn't going to be big enough so we
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bought two side by side and turned them
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into one but the point is my point that
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I'm getting to is that we were already
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you know uh leaving the house kind of
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nine months before we left you know we'd
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already so we had a long extraction a
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long goodbye and as you say you know all
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the memories are still intact and we had
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a really full life full family memories
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and lots of occasions in that place so
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it was relatively straightforward I
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lucked out because when we actually went
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put it on auction
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I had to go and make a film in Perth so
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I wasn't there for any of the home open
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homes or any of that stuff so as luck
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would have it you know but as I said to
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Jennifer it's work Jennifer you know I
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was in a film and then I came back and
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then I had to go perform on a show in
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Wellington for three weeks while they
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moved so I miss out on the move as well
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so I yeah exactly you're a terrible
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human being I am a no well I'm not
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really I've made up for I've put my hand
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up I'll be the Body Corp representative
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for the flat oh good luck with that
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you're going to you're going to regret
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that I'm on I'm on the body C committee
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here the the amount of like WhatsApp
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group messages about you know yeah
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someone needs to spend $110 on some
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screws or a lock box or whatever it is
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every purchase has to be yeah I know
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well that's coming we haven't fully we
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haven't had our first meeting yet but Le
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but I've you know in all fairness I had
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to said look I need to do that cuz I
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missed out and all that other stuff but
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yeah so we moved we're we're happy we
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don't regret anything no great um and
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and is it um is it weird for you when um
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there's someone like me that lives like
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100 MERS up the road and I know who you
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are and I know what you're doing on your
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front deck and you've got no idea who I
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am well it's that's sort of the way life
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has been for me really you sort of get
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used to it um actually I saw a Jimmy
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Carr the comedian the other day a little
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clip and someone said what's it like
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being famous he said it's great he said
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it's lovely it's like living in a
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village and you're the only one that's
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got Alzheimer's which is sort of Segways
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into the place we doing I suppose
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because uh they all know me but I don't
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know anybody else and you sort of go
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yeah in some ways that's part of the
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life I've had cuz you know I do get seen
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by a lot of people on stage on film TV
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though really yeah it's I just I never
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worry about it you with with you and
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what you do is it more a case that
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people see you and they're like I know
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that guy I know that guy from somewhere
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yeah pretty much you've got one of those
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faces or I have got one of those faces
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and and I know um I when I years ago
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when I first got the um the job in
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Hercules in the '90s I mean that went
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from nothing to quite a big thing and
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and um I remember going to the states
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and I was there at Universal Pictures
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one day doing some editing on it because
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I've been directing and this editor said
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oh Michael you must get recognized all
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the time I said in fact no I don't and
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he said come on you must and I said okay
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I'll make a bit with you and we stood
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outside the editing room on Universal
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Studio
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and watched um an entire one of those
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sort of wagon trains of tourists that do
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the tour around the lot and they're all
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coming past and I said watch this and I
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stood right out in front of them and I
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waved at everybody and the show was a
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bit of a hit at that point you know
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nobody recognized me whatsoever but were
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you were you costumed up though well no
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well they' have even then if I'd have
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been in the costume that have thought I
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was some other actor pretending to be me
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wouldn't they I don't know if you're
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waving a sword around I don't know it
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was just one of those things I've never
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really and yet sometimes other people um
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you know the ocidental in Vulcan Lane
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the pub there the Belgian beer Pub I
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went in there one day and this big
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guy I don't know what he whether he's
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Belgian or German or whatever but he
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went it's you it's you and I went what
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he it's you you are um on Hercules
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Hercules totally got it and couldn't
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believe that I was just walking around
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having a beer couldn't believe it just
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thought it was like outrageous thought I
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should be I mean most people think that
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about in new New Zealand they don't care
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you can honestly Fame I mean for me
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anyway uh I remember I remember things
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like I once got a fan letter which was
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addressed to eolus that's my character
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eolis ockland and I got the letter oh
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that's amazing yeah and another another
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time I remember I was um this this was
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great I we'd been in a fan convention
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cuz I still do those in um in La this
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was early 2000s and we' been in Pasadena
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and there was a crowd of thousands of
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people and they these things you can do
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anything they love you you know cuz it's
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all elevated and you really have to keep
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a lid on it keep it in a box you know
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anyway lots of agulation for a whole
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weekend thousands of people the
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following weekend I was at the
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helensville A&P show and I decided I was
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returning a favor to we' used somewhere
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as a location so I was there to sign
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autographs so a week after this big
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thing I go there I walk up and it's the
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middle of the Scottish dancing Highland
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fling Heats or something and there's a
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guy on the microphone he's going this is
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Fiona bloody whatever her name is Fiona
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she's just oh hang on a minute I've just
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got a note here oh look Michael Hurst is
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here where are you Mich oh there he is
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he'll be coming in he'll be sitting down
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here he'll be signing a few autographs
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right here's young Sharon wellby she's
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from me and then the thing everybody was
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interested in the dancing I'm sitting
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there at this bloody table with all this
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white paper on it and all these felt
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pens and no one came up meanwhile the
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Scottish dancing going on so I started
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doodling and signing my own name I was
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really you know and I just early a week
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before I've been you know woried as it
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were anyway on the fence mildy guy
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youngish guy looking at me doing giving
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the oldd eyebrow flick and then finally
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I acknowledge him and he went he Michael
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I went yep he went what are you famous
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for I went there
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I am back in
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Al and that's a good
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thing God you famous for hard to not
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keep your feet on the ground right
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exactly um there's um there's so much to
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talk about with you with the Michael his
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story like you mentioned your wife
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Jennifer a couple of times early on and
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that's um Jennifer W leand who's the
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Kiwi Bank New Zealander of the year A
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couple of years ago also full disclosure
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um I was a massive fan of hers um as a a
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teenage boy when she was in the front
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front the fr
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M Inc stuff great time that was that was
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the ' 80s that was a special time for us
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yeah um an incredible um yeah
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relationship and and marriage that you
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guys have got so we'll get into that the
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Hercules stuff as well we'll get into
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that that was um the the impact of show
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like that has it's it's insane he it's
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incredible well you know I don't think
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it was as big here well I know it wasn't
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as big here as as as it was everywhere
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else um and I still get fan mail I still
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get from places you know in South
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America or or Eastern Europe or
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somewhere and um of course the big thing
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for me was uh once it got traction um it
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was a huge life change I mean it bought
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me a house it it really shifted my
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entire life on that level you know I was
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able to save some money and um and then
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the other thing that happened for me was
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I got to direct a whole bunch of those
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shows and I don't think people I don't
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know if they realize or not how big they
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were were big shows millions of dollars
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they had you know we had five different
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Studios all around the town they they um
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leased a whole lot of land out west um
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Sturges Road and they it was like a
00:10:13
basically an ex farm and they put roads
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in and built Villages and millions of
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dollars and lots of U infrastructure
00:10:21
cameras big 35mm cameras so consequently
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I leared to do these enormous shows at a
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fast pace fast turn around television
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and you know sometimes we had five
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cameras and cranes in the days when a
00:10:34
crane a camera on a crane meant also two
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people on the crane as well to operate
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it cuz this whole you know um uh digital
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operating and cameras hoote heads and
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all of that that wasn't around then that
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was brand new yeah and so I cut my teeth
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on you know really learned to do this so
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nothing really phases me now I mean well
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that explains a lot because yeah you did
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say earlier on that you you sold the
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house and you bought like two apartments
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instead and I i' hate for anyone
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listening to to thinking well I I must
00:11:01
get into doing plays yeah these are good
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money yeah well plays I mean I love
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theater it's the thing I started with
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it's thing I go back to all the time
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it's thing I do mostly if I could do
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theater all the time I would um but the
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reality is that you know you you would
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not be able to make the living I make in
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the television world in the theater
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World especially in New Zealand you know
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that's a whole other issue how it seems
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to have been
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sort of doesn't get taken seriously I
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don't think enough theater in this
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country but that's just me um but yeah
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uh yeah so it's good I I direct TV so I
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can afford to do plays I suppose a sad
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State of Affairs I think most actors
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probably do that you know yeah you love
00:11:45
it he and it has been very good to you
00:11:47
as well and that's um part of the reason
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you're here today that you've got a a
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brand new play called um in other words
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uh which is just you and your wife
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Jennifer on stage together yes it is for
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the first time actually we we have been
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in plays before but we've never just
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been in a two-hander you know with the
00:12:04
two of us and um and there was a play we
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did in oh God 2003 or four called the
00:12:10
goat at Silo which a lot of people will
00:12:13
remember and it's one of the best plays
00:12:15
ever written best modern players Edward
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Alby and although there were four people
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in that play Jennifer and I played the
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married couple and it was you know very
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close to the Bone because we're married
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and it's like this one too the fact that
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we're married and have been married and
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have had a relationship for so long
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already we've only been rehearsing it
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for a couple of days we've already been
00:12:35
right through the whole play and we can
00:12:37
see these habits and relationships it's
00:12:40
it's going to be I think it'll be a good
00:12:42
play it's a Well I know it's a good play
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because I read it and I just thought it
00:12:45
was fantastic yeah and yeah how do you
00:12:47
find out working together who who sort
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of takes the lead of um like boss boss
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or controller oh
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me I see I said that with a straight
00:12:56
face uh look it's a it's it's give and
00:12:58
take we we that we we can ask us quite a
00:13:01
lot actually well how do we work
00:13:05
together
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well we trained we got the same we had
00:13:08
the same um work ethic I think and When
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We Were Young when I was 25 I met
00:13:14
Jennifer when she was 20 and she was uh
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a student or she just graduated from uh
00:13:20
theater corporate drama school theater
00:13:23
corporate was a a theater group
00:13:24
professional theater group founded by
00:13:26
Raymond Hawthorne in the mid '70s and it
00:13:29
lasted till
00:13:30
1986 and it was an unbelievable training
00:13:34
ground for us the company we just kept
00:13:37
working I had five years of working
00:13:39
there and uh the work ethic is always
00:13:42
about the show first actors second your
00:13:44
performance is only a step among other
00:13:47
steps to make a show um and uh proper
00:13:51
technique proper proper theater
00:13:53
technique which sadly is lacking these
00:13:57
days there's no other way to describe
00:13:59
but you know how to make an entrance how
00:14:01
to actually do the thing that audiences
00:14:04
don't realize is being done to them
00:14:06
which is a big deal a lot of acting
00:14:08
craft hundreds and thousands of years of
00:14:12
of buildup to this craft you know it's
00:14:13
not a not something you take lightly and
00:14:16
um anyway so we have the same ethic and
00:14:18
the same methods and the same um sense
00:14:21
of punctuality and we don't like mucking
00:14:24
around I can't stand mucking around you
00:14:27
know rehearsal go let's go let's work
00:14:30
call it work call it what it is it's not
00:14:32
just faffing about in funny costumes so
00:14:34
um and that in that way we we we we
00:14:37
critique each other quite a lot um
00:14:39
because you can sort of it takes one to
00:14:41
no one you know what I mean so I can see
00:14:43
[ __ ] if it's [ __ ] and so can she
00:14:45
and so we just there that mutual respect
00:14:47
as well so I suppose you can both get
00:14:49
away with that and we respect well I
00:14:51
mean I think part of the I think one of
00:14:54
the things that's good about Jennifer
00:14:55
and me is we actually like each other's
00:14:57
work it would be terrible if I I thought
00:14:59
she was a Naf actress not a very good
00:15:00
actress or or you know but she's
00:15:02
fantastic and she's a great singer you
00:15:04
know and um so yeah so we just it's it's
00:15:08
fairly even in fact we we weren't we
00:15:10
asked a couple of people if they direct
00:15:13
this play but it's it's subject matter
00:15:15
it's it's about dementia it's not I I
00:15:19
hasten to say it is not a depressing
00:15:21
play it is an
00:15:23
uplifting amazing emotionally beautiful
00:15:26
play dealing with a serious problem and
00:15:29
um um yeah um see there we go it's about
00:15:33
Dimension and I forgotten what I was
00:15:34
going to say yeah how um yeah by the way
00:15:38
we'll get into aging soon because you're
00:15:40
66 you look bloody remarkable by the way
00:15:42
oh thanks very much I see you I see you
00:15:44
I see you're on your bike from time to
00:15:46
time often often singing while you're
00:15:48
riding it is worth what it's an ear bike
00:15:50
though so it's minimal pedling oh now
00:15:52
now now they I still get a sweat up cuz
00:15:55
I go bloody fast and I do have all the
00:15:57
dials up but I go you know I don't like
00:16:00
again I don't like it's me for me I
00:16:02
always think things like showers and
00:16:04
stairs get in the way of life you know
00:16:06
they slow you up I hate having showers I
00:16:08
just want to get in and out and I can't
00:16:10
anyway that's whole other question yeah
00:16:12
so so yeah so in other words you um you
00:16:15
you plan married couple that um and I I
00:16:17
get onset I get dementia yeah yeah and
00:16:19
you you start young and you age through
00:16:21
the well this is the thing it's
00:16:23
interesting they they they say that in
00:16:25
the in the um in the script you know
00:16:27
they they age before our eyes this
00:16:30
script is quite a new script that's what
00:16:32
I was going to say the other people we
00:16:34
asked to direct it they've both got
00:16:37
people in their lives with dementia and
00:16:39
it's just too hard for them so that's
00:16:40
why so we thought let's just do it
00:16:42
ourselves with um our producer um Callum
00:16:45
who's a lovely guy so the three of us
00:16:47
that's how we're working but yeah it
00:16:49
starts off um it's what I love about the
00:16:53
play is it's not like oh let's take them
00:16:55
through their lives we actually talk to
00:16:57
the audience and we have this sort of
00:17:00
existence outside of it so we can it's
00:17:04
like hey remember when we did this and
00:17:06
might act a bit of that and you can get
00:17:08
to a point where there might be a sticky
00:17:10
piece coming where say I um we first
00:17:13
start noticing that I forget things or
00:17:16
it might be the the part where there's a
00:17:17
moment where he doesn't recognize his
00:17:19
wife which is incredibly moving and I'll
00:17:22
say to Jennifer oh I'm really sorry
00:17:25
about this but that's really hard and
00:17:26
she yeah it was hard oh well should we
00:17:29
and then we go and do it so there's a
00:17:31
commenting level on it which I think is
00:17:33
really smart it's so moving and yeah it
00:17:36
gets tricky um I when I read it I
00:17:38
actually I actually cried when I read
00:17:40
this the the first time which is because
00:17:44
I I couldn't I couldn't help imagining
00:17:48
what Jennifer would had to have to deal
00:17:50
with if I really did start losing my
00:17:53
mind and she had to become the carer
00:17:56
something she sort of didn't sign up for
00:17:58
but when you get married you do sign up
00:18:00
for that and and I found that very
00:18:02
moving and of course I can't act that in
00:18:04
the show cuz in the show I'm happy cuz
00:18:07
I'm just you're
00:18:09
Delirious I'm yeah I'm delusional and I
00:18:13
you know it I can't play the end of the
00:18:15
show and my performance so um I have to
00:18:17
get past that he are you you said you
00:18:20
cried when you read the script are you
00:18:21
quite an emotional guy you see you said
00:18:23
you you went too emotional about leaving
00:18:24
the house that you're no but I am well
00:18:26
that's because we dealt with it you no I
00:18:27
am an emotional person and I do I I I I
00:18:30
don't think you can be an actor and not
00:18:32
be emotional cuz you you know the or
00:18:34
it's not just about feeling things I
00:18:36
mean you have to act but emotional
00:18:39
recall and um for me it's a it's more
00:18:43
physical than anything you know although
00:18:46
the the memory of of the birth of my two
00:18:50
sons is pretty powerful and that does
00:18:52
give me an enormous amount emotional
00:18:54
well but but more often than not for me
00:18:57
to get into to that state it's a
00:19:00
physical thing what does your body do
00:19:03
when you are you know upset or angry or
00:19:06
and I always go back to Childhood cuz
00:19:08
usually that's where it's all laid down
00:19:10
and I know when things when I was little
00:19:12
and I and I things were just unfair it
00:19:15
was always about that for some reason
00:19:17
and I can remember what my body
00:19:19
did face the chin my chin used to go
00:19:22
first all this goes dry and then before
00:19:25
you know it physically you know and you
00:19:28
start to bre bring that up and that's
00:19:30
the then you need to place that where
00:19:32
you need it you know um I suppose other
00:19:34
people get there by recalling in a
00:19:37
therapy way uh I just think that's a bit
00:19:39
scattered for me because it's it sort of
00:19:41
it means you you end up it's not as
00:19:43
controlled and I think acting's about
00:19:46
Controlled Chaos yeah yeah not chaos so
00:19:50
you you okay you just touched on your
00:19:51
chter let's let's um go back there and
00:19:53
talk about that so you you're born in
00:19:54
the UK you moved to New Zealand at at
00:19:56
eight eight years old yeah 1966 what
00:19:58
what are your memories of that type that
00:19:59
transition time from being a K in the UK
00:20:02
to moving to Christ Church as an a uh
00:20:04
well so where I came from in St Helens
00:20:06
which is near Liverpool in the north of
00:20:07
England if you can stretch any listeners
00:20:10
viewers if you can imagine Coronation
00:20:13
Street when it was in black and white
00:20:14
back in the day those miserable streets
00:20:17
with all the smoke I lived in that so I
00:20:19
went from suti Grime north of England
00:20:24
houses built you know terrorist houses
00:20:26
and grimy streets slums basically
00:20:29
that have been there for 50 80 90 years
00:20:32
you know um I moved from that to Christ
00:20:37
Church so I went from a school in
00:20:40
England where the playground was ashel
00:20:43
with brick walls around it and in the
00:20:45
top of the brick walls embedded in
00:20:47
concrete and cement were broken bottles
00:20:50
to stop people climbing over you know
00:20:52
that's how they used to do it I went
00:20:53
from that to open rugby fields to
00:20:57
Elmwood normal School in Christ Church
00:21:00
flat open skies blue uh wooden houses
00:21:05
everything wooden and all the space
00:21:07
couldn't believe that was my first big
00:21:09
memory it was amazing to me and um and I
00:21:13
remember that you know I remember some
00:21:14
grief about leaving but I I don't know I
00:21:17
was it was a big shift we came on a
00:21:19
plane which is unusual in those days
00:21:22
three three days on a dc8 took us three
00:21:24
days to get here um and yeah for an
00:21:28
8-year-old that must feel like a
00:21:30
lifetime it it you know it's hard to
00:21:33
that was the biggest thing the space and
00:21:35
the the fact that it it did feel old it
00:21:38
did feel when I say old oldfashioned I
00:21:42
felt a lot of that stuff drop away that
00:21:46
big cities have cuz there wasn't that I
00:21:48
mean back then it still took six weeks
00:21:50
for anything to get here by mail because
00:21:53
it mostly came by by ship yeah you know
00:21:55
remember TV was six months behind
00:21:57
everything was behind you know all the
00:21:59
Fashions would the magazines would
00:22:02
arrive and then the fashion would arrive
00:22:03
and you know everything was behind and I
00:22:06
guess over my life I've seen things rev
00:22:08
up you know and and being um you know
00:22:11
going through the school system here in
00:22:12
New Zealand as you the last couple years
00:22:14
of primary school then intermediate then
00:22:16
um panoi High School um what what was
00:22:18
that like being a kid from the UK with
00:22:20
an English accent at the beginning it
00:22:21
was not good they they um I was a very
00:22:25
small blond haired wh skinned people
00:22:28
used to sort of pick on me a bit and um
00:22:30
so I lost my accent pretty quickly cuz
00:22:33
my accent were like that I had flat as a
00:22:35
bandake do like that all time you know
00:22:38
my mom my dad they all talk like that
00:22:40
you know I go back and it's like that
00:22:41
and but you know I'm a mimic of most
00:22:44
actors have a good mimic um ability and
00:22:47
so I can hear accents really quickly so
00:22:50
that served me well cuz I lost it really
00:22:53
quickly I got brown sunburnt actually
00:22:56
those are the days when the waiter
00:22:58
toughen up your skin for the sun was to
00:23:00
get burnt on the first chance you could
00:23:02
get and toughen it up but um and then I
00:23:06
after that I just
00:23:08
um I was just I just went through the
00:23:11
school system I mean I loved my high
00:23:14
school year I I years I luckily papanui
00:23:18
High had a bit of a tough
00:23:19
reputation um and I didn't bother when I
00:23:22
went from intermediate applying for
00:23:23
Christ Church boy high or any of those
00:23:26
because I wanted to be in the top dream
00:23:29
I just knew my I'd been my dad had
00:23:31
always told me you go to bloody
00:23:33
University and so it was in my blood and
00:23:36
I wanted that and I figured quite
00:23:38
smartly I think that I'd have a better
00:23:40
chance of getting in the top stream at
00:23:42
papanui high than I would at one of the
00:23:44
more competitive ones I guess that was
00:23:46
my reasoning and as it happened I did
00:23:48
get into the top stream at the same time
00:23:50
as a whole bunch of new teachers arrived
00:23:52
who were all hellbent on new teaching
00:23:55
and so I got this ride through the high
00:23:58
school years of amazing teachers like
00:24:02
and just I had a fantastic time at at
00:24:06
papanui and then of course you look at
00:24:07
it you know people ask me when did you
00:24:10
want to be an actor well I never thought
00:24:12
about being an actor at any of that time
00:24:14
except that if you look at it I was um a
00:24:17
champion fencer so I won the uh CER be
00:24:22
for V foil fencing championships and all
00:24:24
of that so that was one thing uh first
00:24:27
in English
00:24:28
debating prize public speaking prize
00:24:32
what else was I going to be you know I
00:24:35
was all it seem like I was unconsciously
00:24:37
preparing all these skills and I did a
00:24:39
few Productions and things but um I
00:24:42
really just wanted to go to university
00:24:45
and uh so I stayed right through to the
00:24:48
uh seventh form last year at school year
00:24:51
12 or whatever it is and then I went to
00:24:54
University to can University and during
00:24:56
that first week a first year
00:24:59
I got the part of Paddington Bear in the
00:25:02
Canter children repeter
00:25:04
society's whatever it is production of
00:25:07
Paddington beer big suit big padding I
00:25:10
mean it nearly killed me as I recall but
00:25:13
someone came to see it from the court
00:25:15
Theater which is a professional theater
00:25:16
in chur and on the strength of this
00:25:19
weird performance asked me to go on
00:25:21
audition and that's how that started so
00:25:24
it really wasn't until ID left school
00:25:26
that it became apparent to me that I
00:25:27
could do this so but yeah high school
00:25:31
was fantastic for
00:25:33
me yeah and and hindsight um having to
00:25:36
blend in and change your accent to like
00:25:38
be a be a kiwi is that where it all sort
00:25:41
of started do you think I don't know I
00:25:43
was always AIT a bit of a showof I don't
00:25:45
know always you know I can I was always
00:25:48
one of the things good actors can tell
00:25:50
jokes I think or good joke tellers could
00:25:53
make actors I was always good at telling
00:25:55
jokes my dad always was brilliant at
00:25:57
telling jokes and it was a thing that I
00:25:59
really liked doing so I I did have a
00:26:01
sort of showoff ability and I was making
00:26:04
up I guess for being the shortest person
00:26:06
in the room generally um I went through
00:26:09
a Christian phase um and became the best
00:26:12
at that I was really good at [ __ ] yeah I
00:26:15
spoke in tongues and I did all of it you
00:26:18
know better than anybody because that
00:26:20
was just the way so and then if you
00:26:22
think about it that a lot of that is
00:26:23
acting it's all acting it's all
00:26:25
hysterical stuff you know I mean and so
00:26:27
yeah I did all with that I was part of
00:26:29
the um commonwealth games games
00:26:32
Christian Outreach
00:26:34
1974 and we would uh go and um we would
00:26:37
turn up at these events outside the
00:26:39
Commonwealth Games in Christ Church at
00:26:41
that time and we'd all been trained and
00:26:44
we would arrive with um sort of a like a
00:26:46
Truck Van thing the side would fall down
00:26:50
they'd set up the band Christian band
00:26:52
Jesus Loves You Jesus and that nonsense
00:26:55
and we would lurk around the outside
00:26:57
with our our Bibles I've still got the
00:26:59
Bible and you'd see spot someone you
00:27:02
know you'd see if they've been moved by
00:27:04
the Lord by the spirit you know you
00:27:05
might see them start shedding a tear or
00:27:07
sh whatever it is lots of we did
00:27:09
training in this honestly the game The
00:27:12
Game's Christian Outreach so you spot
00:27:14
someone that looks like they've been
00:27:15
moved by the spirit you go up and you go
00:27:18
do you know the Lord Jesus Christ as
00:27:20
your personal savior would you like to I
00:27:22
mean it sounds so oh my God but we did
00:27:25
oh sorry but we did that I did that so
00:27:27
yeah I mean I I did all of that and then
00:27:29
of course the theater came along and I
00:27:32
went from sort of the church to the
00:27:34
dirty Church which is kind of because
00:27:37
theater is based on a it's religious
00:27:40
it's based on on spiritual stuff it's
00:27:43
it's a communion it just hasn't got the
00:27:45
nonsense in it and what about um you're
00:27:48
obsessed with Shakespeare right where
00:27:49
did your love of Shakespeare is OB
00:27:51
obsessed and un well no not an unfair
00:27:53
word I comparatively well I'm trying to
00:27:57
pinpoint yeah that's a tricky one I I I
00:28:00
know I
00:28:01
um I know that in the fourth form so
00:28:06
what's that I'm sorry like 14 a boomer
00:28:08
that's why
00:28:09
I'm second year in high school yeah yeah
00:28:12
um our teacher Alan bun who I who I am
00:28:16
eternally grateful one of the ones that
00:28:18
I'm eternally grateful uh to for his
00:28:21
teaching um he actually had a small
00:28:24
spear carrying part in a production of
00:28:26
King Le and at the um the uh Court
00:28:30
theater as I say professional theater in
00:28:32
Christ Church this was in
00:28:35
1972 And so we all went along from the
00:28:38
class and um oh my God it was
00:28:41
unbelievable I don't know if it was a
00:28:43
really good production what I do know
00:28:45
though is that then the theater was
00:28:47
basically in a in a a room the old
00:28:50
courtrooms it was just a big living room
00:28:52
really so really close to the action the
00:28:54
audience and the there was no difference
00:28:57
and I just remember King Leah standing
00:28:59
literally next to me like as if he's
00:29:01
here next to the chair with his arms
00:29:04
stretched out above my head going blow
00:29:06
winds and crack your cheeks and I'm
00:29:08
going holy [ __ ] this St then there was a
00:29:11
guy having his eyes ripped out and there
00:29:13
was it was unbelievably physical and
00:29:15
visceral you know and I remember and I
00:29:18
remember Alan bun standing there as the
00:29:19
Duke of burgundy I think you know and I
00:29:22
I was overwhelmed by it and then I never
00:29:25
really thought about it much but then
00:29:27
later in the sixth form so second to
00:29:30
last year year 11 whatever it is uh we
00:29:33
went and saw Roman pansy's film of
00:29:35
McBeth which of course you know for boys
00:29:38
it's pretty amazing because there's
00:29:40
franches Anis is Lady MCB Beth totally
00:29:42
naked in the sleepwalking scene so there
00:29:44
were boobs but then what struck me and
00:29:48
this is this is where I this is a memory
00:29:50
I really
00:29:51
treasure there's a scene at the
00:29:53
beginning of MC Beth where um after the
00:29:56
witches where um uh the king comes in
00:30:00
with Malcolm and his sons and they see
00:30:02
this Sergeant covered in blood and the
00:30:05
King says what bloody man is that and
00:30:07
the S the son said this is the sergeant
00:30:09
and the sergeant can tell us the story
00:30:11
of what mcbeth's been doing and he talks
00:30:14
about Brave McBeth how amazing he was
00:30:16
and tells about this battle and in the
00:30:19
battle he says he kept pushing pushing
00:30:22
um and didn't stop until he had split
00:30:25
the fellow from the Nave to the chops
00:30:28
he'd cut him from the balls right
00:30:30
through to the you know and in this
00:30:33
speech on screen in pansy's version
00:30:35
they're all standing around on the beach
00:30:37
looking like real men proper fully you
00:30:40
know realized medieval men and when he
00:30:43
said that split him from the Nave to the
00:30:45
chops they all burst out laughing but re
00:30:50
like and I went they are laughing at a
00:30:53
real joke this is a real joke it's real
00:30:57
it's full of it's red blooded as it were
00:30:59
it's completely in your face and it's
00:31:02
got It's not lofty or removed and I
00:31:04
remember going this is fantastic it's
00:31:08
and that's what I've always looked for
00:31:09
ever since in Shakespeare is that
00:31:11
reality of it cuz it's not lofty and
00:31:14
aloof it is poetic it is profound it has
00:31:18
all those things in it but it's just
00:31:21
really real you know um that's what he's
00:31:24
famous for so and I remember it very
00:31:26
clearly and then after that
00:31:28
I just it became a mystery to me what is
00:31:30
this Shakespeare thing and then at the
00:31:32
court when I did join the court um as a
00:31:35
trainee for two years and this director
00:31:38
El Hooper came down and did a production
00:31:40
of athell and I was just a spear carrier
00:31:43
and I still remember the lines it was
00:31:45
just a messenger coming in um uh but I
00:31:48
practiced and practiced and and on that
00:31:50
one speech it's only about 10 lines I
00:31:53
was able to practice all the stuff that
00:31:55
I was being taught and I went wow this
00:31:58
is really this really is right it works
00:32:00
so yeah that's kind of how it worked and
00:32:02
ever since since then I've gosh well
00:32:06
I've played Hamlet twice and played MC
00:32:09
Beth twice I've played King Leah I've
00:32:12
played the fool twice I've directed
00:32:14
McBeth and Hamlet I've I've directed
00:32:16
aalo I've I've directed Romeo and Juliet
00:32:19
and 12 night and as you like it and I've
00:32:21
just been in lot yeah and I love it
00:32:23
you're like a hardcore fan yeah and I
00:32:25
would keep doing it and I think we
00:32:26
should do it I think people be exposed
00:32:28
to it if Shakespeare was at like a
00:32:30
ComiCon or something you'd be there
00:32:31
getting his a if Shakespeare was alive
00:32:33
today he'd be writing for Netflix and
00:32:35
he'd be their best writer that's I
00:32:36
always keep that in mind don't think of
00:32:38
it as old FY ddy think of it as [ __ ]
00:32:41
passionate and well it's stood the test
00:32:43
of time I'm um I'm almost envious of um
00:32:46
you know seeing how passionate you are
00:32:47
when you talk about it because I think
00:32:48
my experience is prob the same as most
00:32:49
people where you have like a Bor
00:32:51
disillusion teacher that's just doing
00:32:53
the curriculum I know passing it I know
00:32:56
and I was the opposite I had these great
00:32:57
great teachers and then I just got into
00:32:59
it you know I've seen it done and I've
00:33:01
done it and seen people moved by it and
00:33:05
and and I've actually done Productions
00:33:07
where I've held an entire audience of
00:33:09
school kids in th they've literally been
00:33:12
glued to it because we got the recipe
00:33:14
right you know you know it's just about
00:33:16
getting that right and a lot of that
00:33:18
comes down to
00:33:19
the comes back to the craft actually CU
00:33:22
if anybody invented modern acting or
00:33:24
well I say modern acting if anybody
00:33:26
invented theater we know it was
00:33:29
Shakespeare have you ever have you ever
00:33:31
had a normal a real
00:33:33
job have you managed to to to get to
00:33:35
retirement age doing what you love yep
00:33:38
yeah that's amazing never been and so is
00:33:40
Jennifer we've never done never I've
00:33:42
never been a waiter never I started got
00:33:44
my first professional gig when I was 18
00:33:47
um that's when I joined the court
00:33:48
theater and then just stayed there 18 to
00:33:52
I I moved to ockland just after my 21st
00:33:54
birthday joined theater corporate stayed
00:33:57
there for three years then became
00:33:59
freelance had a year of doing a few
00:34:01
things made a few TV things and made a
00:34:04
movie I think death warmed up and then I
00:34:06
went back to theater corporate playing
00:34:08
lead roles then the Mercury then we
00:34:09
started the
00:34:11
Watershed uh then I got um Hercules then
00:34:15
came out then there was Oran theater
00:34:16
company and I just my we did my own
00:34:19
productions for a while so yeah been Con
00:34:22
in a country of the size of New Zealand
00:34:23
husband and wife doing doing this it's
00:34:26
awesome yeah it's pretty I'm I'm I'm I'm
00:34:29
lucky yeah we're both we're lucky we're
00:34:31
fortunate and having said that we work
00:34:33
hard that's we we don't um we don't
00:34:36
we're not we don't sit on our asses that
00:34:37
much and I don't want to either the
00:34:39
older I get the more I want the more I
00:34:41
want to learn in fact um you know just
00:34:44
three years ago maybe four years ago I
00:34:45
got this part in called um a play called
00:34:49
an Iliad which is basically a reduction
00:34:51
of Homer Iliad um in a in a in a it's a
00:34:56
the guy it's a guy telling you the story
00:34:59
2 hours and 20 minutes long no break one
00:35:02
person it's like learning a book and I
00:35:05
just went I'm up for this and I am I
00:35:07
want more I want to do that because that
00:35:10
is the the muscle the brain the brain
00:35:14
muscle yeah and I've had like a lot of
00:35:17
people of different ages on the podcast
00:35:19
and you know you talk about retirement
00:35:20
and stuff and if if you're if you're
00:35:22
doing what you love then there is no
00:35:24
yeah 100% I think it's a healthy way to
00:35:26
go you know there's a line in there's a
00:35:28
line from um Rosen cran and gildon are
00:35:30
dead by Tom stard after my Hercules
00:35:33
stint I I had to pull out pull out of
00:35:35
theater for a while because it just
00:35:37
became too busy and my the first play I
00:35:39
did back after doing that TV series for
00:35:42
eight years was this play Rosen cron
00:35:45
Gilden Stoner did and I played a
00:35:47
character called the actor and so
00:35:49
suddenly I'm coming and I just and my
00:35:51
first line was to walk on stage look at
00:35:53
the audience and go ah an audience and
00:35:56
I'd been missing an audience out was
00:35:58
such a great role and there's a line in
00:36:00
it where he says do you know what
00:36:02
happens to Old
00:36:04
actors no nothing they're still
00:36:08
acting and that's the truth I love it
00:36:10
yeah I love it hey you mentioned um just
00:36:13
before um death warmed up which is your
00:36:15
first movie um knowing you were coming
00:36:17
around today I I I did as much research
00:36:19
as I could and there's a an old
00:36:21
interview on you on online and you talk
00:36:23
about this movie so The Story Goes you
00:36:26
made the movie you didn't get to it
00:36:28
beforehand first time you saw it was on
00:36:29
the big screen at I a preview and then
00:36:33
and then I thought my career was over is
00:36:34
the true I I couldn't I I just I've
00:36:39
thought about this moment a lot I
00:36:40
couldn't relate to the face I was seeing
00:36:44
I mean anybody that's not in film or
00:36:47
television listening to this watching
00:36:49
this you have to understand when you see
00:36:51
yourself from angles that you can't
00:36:53
possibly see yourself from so from
00:36:55
behind you see the back of your head
00:36:57
it's really disturbing at the beginning
00:36:59
it's like when you hear your voice first
00:37:01
as a recorder anyway I just hated it I
00:37:05
I'm sorry David blle I just I
00:37:09
just I I wasn't prepared for what I was
00:37:12
seeing and it was a test audience full
00:37:15
of teenagers and it was at this movie
00:37:17
theater that doesn't exist anymore
00:37:19
halfway down Queen Street cinama I think
00:37:22
anyway and
00:37:23
um and I I was so uh upset by what I'd
00:37:28
seen that I just got up at the end and I
00:37:31
couldn't talk to anybody not even
00:37:32
Jennifer and I literally walked out of
00:37:36
that movie theater and walked straight
00:37:38
up Queen Street across AA square the
00:37:41
square wasn't there at that point AA
00:37:43
Center wasn't there I should say and
00:37:45
into Maya's Park and I sat on a park
00:37:47
bench in Mya's Park and I cried I
00:37:50
thought what the [ __ ] have I done I
00:37:52
really just cried I was having a bit of
00:37:55
a crisis I think but as it happened
00:37:57
I then had to go up to the theater
00:37:59
theater cor because I was in a play the
00:38:02
Winter's Tale by William Shakespeare and
00:38:04
I was playing florelle the prince sounds
00:38:07
like an air fresh but anyway new
00:38:09
florelle um and I got on stage and I did
00:38:13
the Shakespeare and I thought you know
00:38:15
what this is I'm going to stay here and
00:38:17
I didn't do any TV or film for ages
00:38:19
after that I was just
00:38:21
so and I I think I was just going
00:38:23
through something you know but the irony
00:38:25
is they did a reprint a brand new print
00:38:28
of that film because it won a prize
00:38:30
somewhere in Paris and it has some
00:38:33
reputation and uh this is a couple of
00:38:36
years back and they were screening it at
00:38:38
the Hollywood brand new print and we
00:38:39
were there as guests and I thought I'm
00:38:41
not going to go because I've not seen it
00:38:43
since then I'd not seen it how how many
00:38:45
years are we talking when uh 1983 maybe
00:38:48
something like that W okay so like 40 40
00:38:50
years yeah I'd not seen I'd not seen it
00:38:52
so we turn I thought oh go I've got to
00:38:55
bury this I've got to get past this so
00:38:56
went to there and my two sons came and
00:38:59
they their mates and they all you know
00:39:01
quite liked it they didn't have a bad
00:39:02
thing to say
00:39:04
really and I was supposed to go onto a
00:39:06
panel afterwards and talk about it but
00:39:09
I'm telling you I hated it then and I
00:39:11
still hate
00:39:13
it that's not the end of the story I was
00:39:15
expecting I thought you would have been
00:39:16
more gentle on yourself no I couldn't
00:39:18
and there was a poor reporter beforehand
00:39:20
who he just kept asking me questions
00:39:23
about how much I'd learned making it
00:39:25
well I could barely remember making the
00:39:26
bloody thing so I just went nothing I
00:39:28
couldn't answer anything and on the
00:39:30
panel I couldn't
00:39:32
really I had to dodge questions cuz I
00:39:35
just was still going why did I oh look
00:39:37
it doesn't matter let's put it away we
00:39:39
move on from
00:39:40
that wow but could you could you look at
00:39:43
it um objectively now and and think
00:39:46
think I okay you I had some you had some
00:39:47
acting mirror well that was me trying to
00:39:49
look at it objectively I mean and I've
00:39:51
seen a lot of performances still CU
00:39:53
remember I direct a lot of television
00:39:54
and I've directed a lot of American
00:39:56
actors and English actors so I know what
00:39:57
acting looks like and I can forgive
00:40:00
myself a few things I can I just think
00:40:02
the whole thing was just just wony for
00:40:05
me that's all I look it's just it was
00:40:08
just um I wasn't prepared for it I don't
00:40:10
think I realized what it really was and
00:40:14
it took me a while to get over the shock
00:40:17
and it's not I still look at it now and
00:40:19
I go oh yeah you know I've I've done
00:40:21
better
00:40:22
things wow oh that's great um okay let's
00:40:26
talk about the Hercules stuff so you
00:40:28
touched upon this before this was a
00:40:30
golden time for uh like International TV
00:40:33
but again as you as you said not not as
00:40:34
big in New Zealand's overseas but there
00:40:36
was yeah Hercules young Hercules and
00:40:38
Zeno which made Lucy la Lucy LS before
00:40:41
that like did an ASB series of EDS she
00:40:43
did a few things she was we did a couple
00:40:45
of I've worked n her since the 80s and
00:40:47
she we did a few of the Typhon people
00:40:49
and a couple of Dramas you know around
00:40:52
um Hercules was the initial idea which
00:40:56
robbed
00:40:58
who's now married to to Lucy so he's
00:41:01
partners with Sam Ry Evil Dead so Rob
00:41:03
and Sam and Bruce Campbell who's the
00:41:05
star of the E original Evil Dead movies
00:41:08
back in the 80s that's how they made
00:41:10
their push CU they that film we were
00:41:13
watching it coincidentally we were
00:41:15
watching a uh an illegal print of it
00:41:19
while we were shooting death wared up
00:41:22
which is quite weird cuz when I met Rob
00:41:25
years later and said do you know that we
00:41:27
were watching this and he said who the
00:41:28
hell did you get that print from but um
00:41:31
uh so there is a sort of connection
00:41:33
there um
00:41:34
anyway um so they came down here with
00:41:37
this Hercules idea Hercules without
00:41:40
togers Hercules done like we did it you
00:41:43
know and
00:41:45
comedic and it was part of Universal
00:41:48
Pictures actionpack series they made I
00:41:51
think seven shows these were the days of
00:41:54
syndicated television so before
00:41:56
streaming and and um anyway we made we
00:41:59
were going to make 13 well we made four
00:42:02
1hour Telly movies I was in the first
00:42:04
one and I
00:42:06
died but then I think they saw some uh
00:42:11
some potential there and so they rewrote
00:42:14
it I believe and had me come back to
00:42:16
life as you do you know the planet goes
00:42:18
backwards or something and um then they
00:42:21
made after they made these first four
00:42:23
movies they made a fifth one which is
00:42:25
called a bottle show bottle shows are
00:42:27
where you go hey do you remember that
00:42:29
time we and it goes woo woo woo and they
00:42:31
go and they bring an flash yeah
00:42:33
flashbacks so bottle shows shows in a
00:42:35
bottle so he made one of those about all
00:42:37
the four movies and held it strung it
00:42:39
together with this funny story with
00:42:41
Kevin Sorbo who was the actor playing
00:42:43
Hercules and myself and we did a whole
00:42:44
little shtick that we justed and that's
00:42:46
what I believe got their attention hey
00:42:48
there's a series in this and suddenly we
00:42:51
got booked for um 13
00:42:53
episodes and uh that was when I just
00:42:57
thought honestly my audition I thought
00:42:59
it was the worst thing I'd ever the
00:43:01
script it was like Hey must have been
00:43:03
some kind of monster it was all like
00:43:05
that and I turned up just doing my best
00:43:07
John Wayne you know hey Hercules come
00:43:10
over here but I got the part cuz I
00:43:12
turned up with you know I was really fit
00:43:14
and buff I had no a singlet on and I had
00:43:16
a big metal sword from a Shakespeare
00:43:18
play so I'm you know anyway got the P um
00:43:22
yeah we we then Lucy and I because what
00:43:25
happened was she was in an episode
00:43:28
a three episode storyline as this
00:43:31
character Zena and Rob went I reckoned
00:43:34
there's something in that sent a whole
00:43:36
lot of footage of Lucy in her outfit
00:43:40
fighting and then Universal they
00:43:42
apparently just me yeah we want that and
00:43:43
so Zena got picked up just like that
00:43:46
yeah it was a mess of her mess and and
00:43:48
to its credit is the one that lasts it's
00:43:50
it's way got way more impact than
00:43:52
Hercules ever had but the day that I
00:43:55
realized we were going to be doing a lot
00:43:57
of shows because we made 120 episodes or
00:44:00
something um the day it was going to get
00:44:03
really picked up and the day that Lucy
00:44:06
got Zena we both got put on a plane to
00:44:08
America first class and we're sitting on
00:44:10
this plane
00:44:11
going this was so cool and we got there
00:44:14
and we had the full nine yards you know
00:44:16
it was all the full this is what it's
00:44:18
going to be like it's going to be a long
00:44:19
running thing and it was it rain for
00:44:22
years and years and um got crazier and
00:44:25
crazier and it just yeah it just
00:44:28
American money American rates got
00:44:30
membership of the Screen Actors Guild
00:44:32
and the Director's Guild and um it just
00:44:34
set us up it was a very very that's when
00:44:37
we decided to have kids so you know
00:44:39
Jennifer and I went well this is going
00:44:41
to last for five four years at least it
00:44:44
lasted for seven I think you know so um
00:44:47
we had kids you and remember I was 37
00:44:49
when I started that lot of people think
00:44:51
I was younger but no I was already I had
00:44:53
a career I'd already done I'd already
00:44:56
played all these roles you know so um it
00:44:58
was a uh it was uh when it got to the
00:45:01
end of it so I was what was I 44 or
00:45:04
something at the end of
00:45:05
it and you know it's people say what
00:45:08
what did you did you try going to
00:45:10
Hollywood well yeah except I wasn't 20
00:45:13
you know what I mean it's I went over
00:45:15
there I got offered some roles in things
00:45:19
and some directing opportunities but
00:45:20
there were all things like Sheena Queen
00:45:23
of the Jungle and stuff and I just went
00:45:25
I don't want this also I had kids and I
00:45:28
would still have to be slepping around
00:45:30
La and I had this whole career back here
00:45:32
so I just went you know what I'm going
00:45:34
to do what I really want to do and
00:45:36
that's what I did I just came back and
00:45:38
set myself and now America comes here I
00:45:41
mean I'm directing Spartacus and I've
00:45:43
done all these big American shows and
00:45:45
you know so living my best life really
00:45:49
what an opportunity it's it's like
00:45:51
winning lot on a way is and I will
00:45:52
always be grateful to Rob Tapper who
00:45:54
believed in me and when I said when I
00:45:56
looked around went I reckon I could
00:45:58
direct these you know I said can I
00:45:59
direct one he said sure and then gave me
00:46:02
the hardest
00:46:04
most computer generated effects heavy
00:46:08
episode that we'd had so far so I had to
00:46:11
learn like it was a learning wasn't even
00:46:14
a curve it was straight up and it was
00:46:16
just in the deep end but I made a good
00:46:18
fist of it you know and uh and he was
00:46:21
remarkable he um he had me play a
00:46:24
pantomime Dame in this American TV show
00:46:27
The Widow twanky which is based on my
00:46:30
mom cuz someone had seen me do the show
00:46:32
oh you got to put that in I said well I
00:46:34
don't know that Americans are going to
00:46:36
go for a woman that talks like this you
00:46:38
know like from Coronation Street but
00:46:40
they loved it and so he gave me that
00:46:42
opportunity you know and um another
00:46:45
producer who worked on the show Eric
00:46:47
grinderman who's become a dear friend
00:46:48
and um we God Parents to each other's
00:46:52
kids he also just gave me so many
00:46:54
opportunities just backed me you know
00:46:56
with any Americans are great like that
00:46:59
they give you they go here you go and if
00:47:01
you don't make it well you don't make it
00:47:03
but you get a chance on your Merit at
00:47:06
least these these guys were so I will
00:47:08
always be grateful for them and
00:47:09
Rob I think single-handedly almost
00:47:12
changed the way people View New Zealand
00:47:14
because they he decided to move
00:47:18
basically a Hollywood style Studio here
00:47:21
and build it here and yes in those days
00:47:24
the American I think it was 42 to the
00:47:27
dollar in favor of the Americans so they
00:47:29
had Gaz Doles of money but it meant that
00:47:33
all the crews had to step up all the
00:47:35
locals the stunt industry suddenly had
00:47:37
to come really up into the light the
00:47:40
stunties that started on Hercules and
00:47:42
Zena I'm working with them now on
00:47:45
Spartacus they've been all around the
00:47:46
world El poppleton these guys they've
00:47:49
become world you know renowned at their
00:47:52
jobs all because of that and it really
00:47:54
kicked it off all the um the way the
00:47:57
studios are now being built CU we used
00:48:00
the old cold stores out at in West
00:48:03
ockland which have now been completely
00:48:04
rebuilt as Studios so you know a lot
00:48:07
went on from those shows and now this
00:48:12
year and next year still there are Zena
00:48:14
conventions Jennifer and I turn up I
00:48:17
wasn't even in Zena I mean I was I made
00:48:19
a few guest appearances I directed a
00:48:21
whole lot of them Jennifer was in Zena
00:48:23
twice we still turn up it's hilarious
00:48:27
we have fans who are now sadly some of
00:48:30
them are dying cuz they're so old you
00:48:31
know and then we got all these new fans
00:48:33
you know 20 year olds who have
00:48:36
discovered it online you know it's quite
00:48:38
extraordinary just one of those just
00:48:40
that sort of genre right that it's got
00:48:41
like a massive cold I think with Zena
00:48:43
especially it's the two women are they
00:48:46
gay or are they not but they've become
00:48:48
icons you know they really are icons
00:48:50
female power all the rest of it you know
00:48:52
that was and they all always played on
00:48:54
that that was because also it worked for
00:48:56
men to because it was women in leather
00:48:58
kicking us I mean there's a whole it's a
00:49:00
complex thing that was going on you yeah
00:49:04
but it's the show that last I mean
00:49:06
Hercules I think got pretty good in in
00:49:08
its later Seasons it started to get very
00:49:10
strange and wonderful where uh Kevin got
00:49:13
really sick at one point had an aneurysm
00:49:15
there was no Hercules so we had to think
00:49:17
of ways to do shows without him in it
00:49:20
and one of the ways was that um there
00:49:22
was a crisis in the writer's room
00:49:25
because Kevin SOS got gone missing so
00:49:27
suddenly we are playing the modern
00:49:29
writers of the show that we're in which
00:49:32
is said in ancient Greece prehistoric
00:49:34
gree um and sending up lampooning the
00:49:37
very writers of the show and in that
00:49:40
particular show these writers us are
00:49:43
thinking of crazy ideas which we thought
00:49:45
of and then did like one show where
00:49:48
Hercules has turned into a piglet so we
00:49:50
called it porcul oh my God so there's a
00:49:52
whole episode like that so it got very
00:49:54
like a spoof it did it got incredibly
00:49:57
meta really really meta and I think
00:50:00
quite groundbreaking but there we go um
00:50:03
but then it just you know um the old two
00:50:05
guys buddy thing I think just naturally
00:50:08
wears it wears itself out also when I
00:50:12
was in America that first time at the
00:50:14
big party of the launch and this writer
00:50:16
hey Michael how are you so uh Hey I just
00:50:19
want to say a bit of advice um you know
00:50:21
this show is going to do well but um
00:50:23
when you get a script the calls for you
00:50:25
to play your own evil twin start looking
00:50:28
for more work because that's when the
00:50:30
Riders are running out of ideas right
00:50:33
yeah but the thing is I I played my unal
00:50:36
twin about three times I died about four
00:50:38
times in that show and came back you
00:50:40
know so we did actually eat it out for
00:50:43
quite a l oh it's fantastic although
00:50:46
there's one thing I want to want to look
00:50:47
back to you mentioned um Kevin Soo and a
00:50:49
brain aneurism was it a brain aneurysm
00:50:51
or was that when you um got him with the
00:50:53
got him with the
00:50:54
sword you can you believe they gave us
00:50:57
metal bloody swords I cannot believe
00:50:59
they did that for the first Nine
00:51:00
episodes well they probably thought oh
00:51:02
Michael's Michael's a safe bet he's a
00:51:03
fencing Champion yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:51:05
I've seen the shot what happened was I'm
00:51:08
doing a reverse horizontal slice and
00:51:11
he's ducking I didn't go quite high
00:51:13
enough and he didn't duck quite low
00:51:14
enough and I gave him a cut that got him
00:51:16
nine stitches I think surface wound give
00:51:20
surface need need a can of hardened the
00:51:23
[ __ ] up that's what he needed but anyway
00:51:25
look that that that was but the the but
00:51:28
he did have an aneurysm and that was an
00:51:30
amazing time you know because he got um
00:51:33
he got he had a stiff arm he got a
00:51:35
massage it dislodged the blood clot it
00:51:37
went into his brain and he had a genuine
00:51:39
aneurysm and it nearly killed him and I
00:51:41
remember visiting him in um
00:51:44
LA and there's this big guy six foot
00:51:47
something broad shoulders you know
00:51:49
really muscular guy um and he was
00:51:53
sitting in a dark room and had no energy
00:51:55
and it was very arresting and we made
00:51:58
these episodes without him and then he
00:52:01
came back slowly building up his health
00:52:03
slowly slowly slowly and then when he
00:52:05
came back on set on the first day he was
00:52:07
only allowed on set for one hour and he
00:52:10
would come on and we all had to be quiet
00:52:13
and everything had to be because it was
00:52:15
a delicate thing yeah and he came on and
00:52:18
I remember he was in a suit um because
00:52:22
Kevin SBO had come back to the studio
00:52:23
you know what I
00:52:25
mean and he just looked small in the
00:52:27
suit this big man and I remember choking
00:52:30
up I got such tears because all he had
00:52:33
to do was walk on sit and go I'm back
00:52:36
you know that thing that you Americans
00:52:37
do hey I'm back so we did that and and
00:52:41
then there was a pause and we cut and
00:52:43
then the first day said welcome back kin
00:52:45
like this and it was the most moving
00:52:48
moving moment and you know while we're
00:52:50
on the subject of Kevin I have to say it
00:52:52
is eternally sad to me that he's become
00:52:55
a right-wing Trump voting conspiracy
00:52:58
he's just a complete he turned into that
00:53:01
yeah well you guys um I I suppose a lot
00:53:02
of the you know cuz you were you were
00:53:03
very tight together so I suppose you had
00:53:05
like a friendship at the time but is it
00:53:07
transactional like he moves on with it
00:53:09
was a little bit transactional we we did
00:53:10
get on really well we really generated
00:53:13
energy on the set and we made a lot of
00:53:15
funny gags that we you know and we did
00:53:17
all of that and we didn't care about
00:53:18
upstaging each other all of that was
00:53:20
very healthy and I never really had a
00:53:23
social life with Kevin he wasn't a um he
00:53:26
well his favorite sport was golf which
00:53:28
is like oh my God so um you know so that
00:53:32
was one thing and I don't mean to put
00:53:33
down actually I do golf come on I mean
00:53:36
you know anyway yeah you've never been a
00:53:39
golf car no what is it a pleasant walk
00:53:42
spoil I remember having a conversation
00:53:44
once with the crew was standing around
00:53:46
and Kevin I said you know Kevin I think
00:53:48
it'd be great if maybe um maybe golf
00:53:51
would be better if they could maybe make
00:53:52
it more interesting and he went okay
00:53:54
Michael how would they do that and and I
00:53:56
said well what if they for example what
00:53:58
if what if the ball was bigger um and
00:54:01
the hole was bigger and what if you had
00:54:03
some people trying to stop you getting
00:54:05
the ball into the hole and maybe you
00:54:08
could have some people with you trying
00:54:09
to get the maybe there's another hole
00:54:11
down the other end and all the crew are
00:54:13
laughing and Kevin's still there going
00:54:16
that wouldn't be golf Michael and he's
00:54:18
like like no IR no there was no irony
00:54:21
complely yeah but um anyway so yeah so
00:54:24
we never had that friendship uh but yeah
00:54:28
we did keep up quite a while afterwards
00:54:30
we emailed regularly and um I did some
00:54:33
work with him in in uh uh Vancouver in a
00:54:38
show that he was doing but when we got
00:54:40
to the lockdown and he started sending
00:54:43
me all the stuff about jinda that was
00:54:45
all from qanon and all that and I just
00:54:47
went I emailed him I said Kevin we're
00:54:49
going to have to disagree agree to
00:54:52
disagree or our friendship such as it is
00:54:55
won't survive and that's the last I've
00:54:56
heard really yeah well there was um like
00:54:59
a a comment he made last week about
00:55:00
carel so at that point even if you're
00:55:02
friends you have to Hom a Simpson back
00:55:04
into the oh yeah yeah and Lucy's got it
00:55:06
really in for him you know she's like no
00:55:09
she's very outspoken yeah I mean he has
00:55:11
dug himself rather a rather a big hole
00:55:14
and of course it doesn't sound very good
00:55:17
when you're complaining that you don't
00:55:18
get work because you're um conservative
00:55:22
or
00:55:23
Christian that's not a good look I don't
00:55:25
think yeah but you know um some other
00:55:28
names from from that time uh there may
00:55:30
be stories may not be Ryan Gosling you
00:55:32
have anything to do with Ry not really
00:55:33
Ryan was young Hercules wasn't he I
00:55:35
think I met him um yeah a couple of
00:55:37
times cuz um we were there was who was
00:55:41
playing there was young who was R goling
00:55:43
and then young eolis was played by oh
00:55:47
tip of my tongue I'm having a senior
00:55:48
moment here uh it'll come to me um and
00:55:52
uh I was playing a some sort of street
00:55:54
vendor it was one of those funny moments
00:55:56
hey you look familiar cuz we played you
00:55:58
know the roles um and I met him a couple
00:56:01
of times but no it was a that was a
00:56:02
whole other world they had their own
00:56:04
world young Hercules and um that was
00:56:07
different to us yeah it's funny someone
00:56:09
I suppose there's no way of knowing that
00:56:10
someone's going to go on to yeah maybe
00:56:13
there there's occasions but for the most
00:56:15
part there's no way of thinking this
00:56:16
person's going to be one of the biggest
00:56:18
stars in the you would never know you
00:56:19
would never have known I mean it was
00:56:21
just he was good though was good on what
00:56:22
he did of course and I you know um who
00:56:25
else was there oh Kevin Smith of course
00:56:27
the great oh yeah the late Kevin Smith
00:56:28
yeah yeah yeah he was fantastic yeah he
00:56:31
he died must been like 20 years ago he
00:56:33
fell off like a lighting rig or
00:56:34
something no he was um he was doing a
00:56:36
movie in China um on a set um and he was
00:56:40
he the thing about Kevin was he was
00:56:42
everything he was gorgeous to look at
00:56:45
had a physique of
00:56:47
adonus a beautiful tener voice like the
00:56:50
most gorgeous voice you've ever heard
00:56:53
and could really act as like God I was
00:56:55
sick of him but but um no no he was he
00:56:57
was awesome a great friend yeah and he
00:57:00
went and he just signed up to do a movie
00:57:02
with Bruce Willis at the time so he was
00:57:04
going to finish his movie in China then
00:57:05
go to Hawaii his family were going to
00:57:07
meet him in Hawaii all being looked
00:57:09
after by the movie and make this movie
00:57:11
would have been his big break but um and
00:57:14
he they they' wrapped him early on the
00:57:15
movie he went to look at another set to
00:57:19
and he started climbing around on this I
00:57:22
think it must have been some sort of
00:57:23
medieval Chinese set or something like
00:57:25
that but built for small Chinese people
00:57:27
not for him and he fell through a set
00:57:30
and bashed his head and that's it that
00:57:32
was it on the way down he bashed his
00:57:33
head and yeah and he left us and that
00:57:36
was um that was a real loss that's the
00:57:38
only really the only time I felt
00:57:41
anything that keenly for um someone in
00:57:44
the World At Large not a family member
00:57:47
that has gone I just we couldn't believe
00:57:50
it and to this day there are moments
00:57:52
where I'll be looking at a play thinking
00:57:54
we're going to cast this who we going to
00:57:56
and you go oh my God Kevin would have
00:57:57
been good at this oh where's Kevin you
00:58:01
know yeah so sad isn't it it was sad so
00:58:04
sad yeah yeah sad sad in many ways like
00:58:07
you know husband and her father but also
00:58:09
never got to sort of realize his
00:58:10
potential as well yeah no he didn't he
00:58:11
just yeah he was a silly boy in some
00:58:15
ways your wife Jennifer um she works she
00:58:18
doesn't work as an intimacy coach as
00:58:20
well yeah what what what does what does
00:58:22
that mean exactly like P tell you what
00:58:24
the practice is [ __ ] exhausting
00:58:26
[Laughter]
00:58:32
all right I'll help you again oh God
00:58:35
it's not the mirror on the stick again
00:58:36
it's oh
00:58:39
no okay fine I'll help I'll jump off the
00:58:42
Wardrobe no um we we yes she has look
00:58:45
this is an interesting story I hope it's
00:58:47
interesting back in the first iteration
00:58:49
of Spartacus which is around 200 going
00:58:52
to say 2008 to 12 somewhere around there
00:58:55
we were doing Sparticus and it had all
00:58:57
these really fullon sex end in IT the
00:59:01
rule for that again Rob ta it he said to
00:59:03
me I came into to direct it and he said
00:59:05
sir I got one I'm here's what I'm going
00:59:07
to say when you think the camera should
00:59:10
stop looking you make it look and I like
00:59:13
okay so I did that and my rule about the
00:59:17
sex stuff was
00:59:18
always to sit down with people no matter
00:59:21
how uncomfortable it was you just talk
00:59:23
about it like its action and you make it
00:59:26
list of the shots and I would be I'd say
00:59:28
to especially the women who are usually
00:59:30
more vulnerable in those situations I'd
00:59:32
say right in this shot we're going to
00:59:34
see your bum we're going to see your
00:59:36
left breast we itemize it and then I
00:59:39
would make a list of all those shots and
00:59:41
I'd show them the list I say now this is
00:59:43
good and we've been through it it'll
00:59:45
look like there right now we'll sign it
00:59:47
I'll sign it you sign it get your agent
00:59:51
to sign it if you like I'm committing to
00:59:53
shooting only what we've agreed on
00:59:57
and that was that so shoot shooting not
00:59:59
showing in the final edit that's that's
01:00:02
all you intend to sh well the only yeah
01:00:05
and I said it if by any if by any
01:00:06
mistake you get up and we happen to
01:00:08
catch a bit more of whatever I'll I'll
01:00:12
show you that and say that's going to be
01:00:14
cut you know we've agreed and that way
01:00:17
we don't have any disputes on that level
01:00:20
now having a closed set yes and looking
01:00:24
after especially young women who are you
01:00:26
know being you know raped or whatever it
01:00:29
is is a trick and we didn't have any of
01:00:32
that in my day you just went the first
01:00:35
time I ever kissed any woman a woman on
01:00:37
stage all I could no one told me I just
01:00:39
went all right Michael you're a grown-up
01:00:41
it's not real keep your lips closed and
01:00:44
fake it and that's what we did you just
01:00:46
I had an experience in America making a
01:00:48
film where I had to sit in a g string
01:00:51
with a really gorgeous sexy young model
01:00:54
straddling me and we had this dialogue
01:00:57
but we couldn't it was such a pokey
01:01:00
thing we couldn't move while they moved
01:01:02
the camera and I just thought well what
01:01:04
do I do here you know and no one's told
01:01:06
there's been no instruction about safety
01:01:09
there's nothing between us no pads or
01:01:11
anything like that so I just asked her
01:01:13
about her
01:01:14
family and spent the time doing that but
01:01:17
my point is so we started that's how it
01:01:19
started and then a woman in um in
01:01:23
England eer eer can't remember her
01:01:26
second name she heard about us doing
01:01:28
this cuz I was giving talks to act
01:01:30
Actors Equity saying just get it in
01:01:32
writing you know I know there are times
01:01:35
when auditions where someone's being
01:01:37
asked to take their top off and it's not
01:01:38
reasonable at all should not happen none
01:01:41
of that should happen there should be no
01:01:43
surprises but get it in writing and then
01:01:45
you won't be surprised so I was always
01:01:47
but ITA uh she was very clear that there
01:01:50
needed to be some work done so she and
01:01:52
Jennifer started a dialogue and that's
01:01:55
when a code of practice began to evolve
01:01:58
about intimacy coordination just like
01:02:01
stunt coordination where are your safe
01:02:03
areas what are the what's safe what
01:02:06
isn't um what are you prepared to show
01:02:09
how can we help you feel comfortable in
01:02:12
a situation do you need something to
01:02:14
protect your your private parts while
01:02:17
you're sitting on this person because
01:02:18
nobody's going to see it you know all of
01:02:20
that stuff to to make everything safe
01:02:23
and fillable and believe me from acting
01:02:26
perspective because I've I've done a I
01:02:29
did a um I did Princess of chaos where I
01:02:32
played um Len Brown the mayor and had to
01:02:34
do the sex scene that you know he was
01:02:36
caught oh with fwang and the na I had to
01:02:39
do that scene and we had an end ofac
01:02:42
coordination it wasn't Jennifer because
01:02:44
I didn't think that was politically
01:02:45
correct it was um Tandy right and so it
01:02:48
was really easy um can I touch you below
01:02:51
the knee yep can I touch you above the
01:02:54
knee here yep there no no okay there's
01:02:57
where there's where the limit is and I
01:02:59
had to be able to cuz he he kissed up
01:03:02
her leg and then it turned into into sex
01:03:05
and and so I said well I can kiss you
01:03:07
here yeah and so I had permission so I
01:03:09
could invest those kisses with the full
01:03:12
bloody nine yards of acting lust you
01:03:15
know without fear of overstepping the
01:03:17
mark Or Without Fear of it was
01:03:20
incredibly freeing and from a directing
01:03:21
point of view I don't have to sit there
01:03:23
and talk to women about their bits you
01:03:26
don't and it's it can be quite tricky
01:03:28
you know I can I can say I want this and
01:03:30
we would do it together in the room with
01:03:32
the coordinator and the actors and
01:03:34
what's safe and what's the shot going to
01:03:35
be we do all that it's fantastic yeah
01:03:38
are those scenes um just the most
01:03:40
awkward thing in the world well not
01:03:42
anymore they they used to be but not
01:03:44
anymore and they are they are awkward
01:03:46
but after a while it's just so [ __ ]
01:03:48
boring honestly you're sitting around
01:03:50
forever and the camera's got to move and
01:03:52
it's really you know it's Ted it's kind
01:03:54
of mundane it's not what people think
01:03:57
it's the same with big extended action
01:03:59
scenes they're not like that they take
01:04:02
time action is pieces you you shoot
01:04:05
individual yeah there might be a bit of
01:04:07
a fight but if you're going to shoot a
01:04:08
closeup of the Cup being smashed by a
01:04:11
sword that's going to take you half an
01:04:13
hour to set up anyway so it's not like
01:04:14
it's all happening in real time so yeah
01:04:16
it all gets a bit mundane you know but
01:04:20
then again what you see in that frame is
01:04:22
always exciting yeah yeah no that's true
01:04:25
um what about the awards and accolades
01:04:27
you you and Jennifer have got plenty U
01:04:29
granted you don't have a kiwi Bank New
01:04:30
Zealander of the year she's the winner
01:04:32
she's Jennifer award Leeland but you
01:04:34
both um you both got um what are the
01:04:37
Queens honors birthdays yeah um I've got
01:04:39
an onz well we both got an ozm I got
01:04:41
mine first um she got her and then she
01:04:45
got promoted up to the next one so now
01:04:47
I've got to do the ducking and curtsying
01:04:49
yeah um how do you how do you feel about
01:04:51
them do they sit comfortably with you
01:04:53
yeah I was really you know what's
01:04:54
amazing about it is when you get
01:04:57
it it's one of those times where it's
01:05:00
only about people appreciating you for
01:05:04
no other reason like there's no you're
01:05:07
not proving anything you're not trying
01:05:09
to get a job you're not there's nothing
01:05:12
like that it's just well done and I
01:05:14
think I certainly for me and I think for
01:05:16
a lot of men I can say a lot of men just
01:05:20
want to be a good boy you know and
01:05:22
that's that's really something and the
01:05:24
same with the um I got an Arts laurate
01:05:27
as well and he was an Arts laurate award
01:05:29
and on the night of that it's just about
01:05:32
hey you did really well and hear in your
01:05:35
in appreciation it's a very heartwarming
01:05:38
thing and um yeah I I totally yeah I I I
01:05:43
really enjoyed having both of those yeah
01:05:45
yeah it's it's quite remarkable really
01:05:47
that you've you've you've both got them
01:05:48
for your own your own merits yeah and
01:05:51
Jennifer's um the New Zealand of the
01:05:53
Year came with a bit more responsibility
01:05:56
you know she was prepared for that
01:05:57
there's a lot of stuff you know how so
01:05:59
what do you mean well I mean I think she
01:06:01
had to be very clear about her
01:06:03
involvement with ter Mai and and how um
01:06:07
she couldn't have the lived experience
01:06:09
of Mai wah but she you know loves the
01:06:13
culture and and really wanted to make
01:06:15
inroads into understanding that and
01:06:18
having it as part of her life that was a
01:06:20
big issue because you know some people
01:06:22
weren't happy about about that but she
01:06:25
had to make her because remember um in
01:06:29
public positions she's also the
01:06:31
president of Actors Equity and I don't
01:06:33
want to go into it too much but going
01:06:34
back to the whole Hobbit catastrophe
01:06:36
back in the early 2000s Jennifer as the
01:06:39
public one of the public faces of that
01:06:41
dispute was I mean it was a terrible
01:06:45
time like lots of insults and people
01:06:48
said terrible things about Jennifer and
01:06:52
a whole bunch of actors you know because
01:06:53
we were making a noise about wanting a
01:06:55
realistic
01:06:56
place in the in the world um so she
01:06:58
didn't want to face that again and and
01:07:00
also New Zealand of the year you know
01:07:02
speaking engagements all of the things
01:07:04
that come from that I've over the years
01:07:08
removed myself from that sort of stuff I
01:07:11
always thought actors I'm an actor I
01:07:13
should be able to do public speaking I
01:07:15
should be able to debate I should be
01:07:17
able to host shows or have
01:07:19
interviews and I was doing all of that
01:07:22
and finding that I was getting so ner
01:07:25
nervous and and twisted up about them
01:07:29
that I thought one day I don't want to
01:07:31
do this to myself anymore I would get
01:07:33
through them possibly but be miserable
01:07:36
inside you know just get nervous I'm not
01:07:38
good at at at
01:07:40
um I'm not good at being in front of
01:07:43
people in that sort of way well and so
01:07:46
you're more comfortable on stage being
01:07:47
someone else than than actually being
01:07:49
yeah on stage I'll do anything I I don't
01:07:51
if it's if it's Justified if it's for
01:07:53
the part I don't care I I'll show my bum
01:07:55
could you could you do the public
01:07:56
speaking pretend it's a role like
01:07:58
Michael this is your character you
01:07:59
playing a 66y old yeah I that's a good
01:08:03
thought but I just don't know no I just
01:08:06
it's always too it's like teaching too I
01:08:08
can't really do that anymore because I
01:08:11
just take it's too it's too hard
01:08:14
personally for me and also a lot of
01:08:16
teaching I
01:08:17
don't I don't sort of believe a lot of
01:08:20
acting teaching much I I kind of I'm a
01:08:23
more practically oriented person quite
01:08:25
cynical about it do do you speak um
01:08:28
fluent too as well no I don't it's not
01:08:30
my interest I I um my interest I've done
01:08:33
classical Greek which is
01:08:35
useless it's not useless but I'm I'm
01:08:39
more i' that's just me and I I I don't I
01:08:42
don't want to start feeling you know
01:08:44
guilty because I don't um speak it the
01:08:47
way Jennifer speaks it um because and I
01:08:50
did go through that phase but actually
01:08:52
it's it's just not me my I'm interested
01:08:54
in ancient history I'm interested in
01:08:58
Shakespeare and philosophy and all of
01:09:01
those things and I'm not saying you
01:09:02
can't be interested in those and not to
01:09:04
Mar of course you could do it all but
01:09:06
I've only got so much time in my life
01:09:07
and so that's that's my honest reaction
01:09:09
to it so and speaking of um the time in
01:09:12
your life how how do you feel about
01:09:13
aging you're 66 now you're you're a
01:09:16
you're a bloody old age pensioner a gold
01:09:18
card holder I've got my gold card I get
01:09:19
three trips to away you're looking
01:09:21
you're looking great and um and mentally
01:09:22
you're very very sharp how how are you
01:09:24
feeling about the whole I've had I've
01:09:26
had a knee replacement um because my
01:09:28
body and again I don't know if people
01:09:31
even remember these but we did some
01:09:33
shows in the past I did physical theater
01:09:36
like really threw myself around I was as
01:09:39
fit as a buck rat and weight training
01:09:42
and just big sword fights with sprung
01:09:45
steel swords and concrete floors stair
01:09:48
Falls all of that so my body's taken a
01:09:51
hiding over the years and that's coming
01:09:53
home to roost I realize now so yep new
01:09:55
left knee um elbow had to be
01:09:58
reconstructed for years of breakfalls um
01:10:02
cuz you know when you're doing a stage
01:10:04
fight at the end of a Shakespeare where
01:10:06
you've got to World of Sword around and
01:10:07
get the [ __ ] thing done you know you
01:10:09
can't stop and have mattresses put down
01:10:11
like the stunt guys do in movies there's
01:10:13
no stopping there's no there it's all it
01:10:15
is is just full on for whatever that
01:10:18
fight is and I was really fit and we
01:10:19
used to make them big these fights you
01:10:21
know um and uh anyway so I've realized
01:10:26
that my body is it's like the engine's
01:10:29
running really well but couple of the
01:10:31
the panel beatings a bit tricky so I've
01:10:34
had that done and my foot my a broken
01:10:37
bone thing fix
01:10:39
it but you know it's just age and I did
01:10:42
think um on my 60th that's when I did
01:10:46
commit myself to doing as many plays a
01:10:48
year as I can for the rest of my life
01:10:50
because that is my first love and and
01:10:54
and the thing that I
01:10:57
most love is being on stage the the act
01:11:00
of being on stage and taking an audience
01:11:03
through that in some ways it's a bit
01:11:05
like directing it's a more limited stage
01:11:07
directing I'm quite good at the TV
01:11:09
directing I'm I'm quite good at theater
01:11:11
directing but but um in a way I'm acting
01:11:15
those parts in some ways I don't know
01:11:18
it's just sort of comes to me but but
01:11:20
aging it's just aging you what do you
01:11:22
what do you love about the being on
01:11:23
stage to the matches like is is is it
01:11:25
the Applause at the end of the night
01:11:26
from doing your job well or well that is
01:11:28
obviously a reward but no it's it's um
01:11:32
it's just the feeling of communication
01:11:35
it's something to do with that um the
01:11:38
there's a power there there's a power
01:11:40
there I mean and it's a
01:11:42
responsibility and I I say this all the
01:11:44
time that that sort of acting is
01:11:47
thousands of years old and comes from
01:11:50
you know you're taking a bunch of
01:11:51
separate minds and they're focusing into
01:11:54
one are area that's pretty rich you know
01:11:57
all of our individual existences sort of
01:11:59
fused together in a weird way in this
01:12:01
one moment and they're all focused and
01:12:04
where are they focused they're focused
01:12:06
on you and you're focused on you know
01:12:08
it's a really it's something you should
01:12:10
not take for granted and not unell it
01:12:14
even even tits and bums comedy you know
01:12:16
oops there go my naughty bits even those
01:12:18
sorts of fces are absolutely crucial to
01:12:21
The Human Condition happy face sad face
01:12:23
it's just one face it does all of it and
01:12:26
it's really important that we hit that
01:12:28
properly you and and that you know that
01:12:30
will anything
01:12:32
less just cheapens the experience and
01:12:35
the experience is I'm going
01:12:37
to I think it's quite a Holy Experience
01:12:40
but I want to qualify it I'm not a I'm a
01:12:43
rationalist I'm an atheist it's not that
01:12:46
it's the human Spirit the most human
01:12:48
thing is coming together and focusing
01:12:50
you just look at a concert look at a
01:12:52
rugby match look at anything like that
01:12:54
that's what
01:12:55
these things all of our separate
01:12:58
consciousnesses come into focus and
01:13:00
those things become a richer moment for
01:13:02
it because not to get too lofty I said
01:13:05
this to some high school students not
01:13:07
long ago because at the end of the day
01:13:09
only you are going to do your dying for
01:13:11
you no one else is going to do that for
01:13:13
you and so these rich moments where you
01:13:17
fully are cognizant of the power of all
01:13:20
of humanity more that's what it is and
01:13:23
I'm privileged and
01:13:25
lucky enough to be someone that can be
01:13:28
in one of those conduit moments do you
01:13:31
know what I mean I know that's that's I
01:13:33
really believe that it's not just
01:13:35
intellectual waffle it's very real for
01:13:37
me oh I can tell you you're so
01:13:39
passionate about it yeah you really are
01:13:41
right the um yeah there's so much
01:13:44
enthusiasm and you think I you yeah I
01:13:46
believe you when you say you want to
01:13:48
keep doing it for as long as you can and
01:13:50
often you know even something you love
01:13:51
when you've been doing it for a long
01:13:52
time the interest in it can sort of wne
01:13:54
somewhat but I get the feeling with your
01:13:55
at hasn't at all not remotely and and
01:13:57
you know if you look at specifically
01:13:58
something like Shakespeare look I'm too
01:14:01
old now but I could easily play Hamlet
01:14:02
again and still not get to the bottom of
01:14:05
it and still be doing different things
01:14:07
same with MC Beth all of these things
01:14:09
it's not uh stepen fry said something
01:14:12
which I took issue with many years ago
01:14:14
he's probably forgotten it not that he's
01:14:16
a friend of mine but he would did a
01:14:17
stage show and he'd been doing a lot of
01:14:19
films and he did a stage show and he
01:14:21
said offand one comment he said oh I got
01:14:24
back on stage
01:14:25
I couldn't wait for the season to endend
01:14:27
doing the same thing every night and I
01:14:29
went well look in my mind if you're
01:14:31
doing the same thing every night you're
01:14:33
in the wrong business that's not what
01:14:35
you do yes it's the same role it's
01:14:38
different every single night it's Unique
01:14:41
I said this to these kids after King Leo
01:14:44
one time this students came to see it
01:14:45
and I said you've seen this show but
01:14:48
you've only you'll never see this again
01:14:50
even if you come to this production
01:14:52
again you'll never see what you saw
01:14:54
tonight again again cuz it's gone it's
01:14:57
gone so that that is the essence of it
01:15:01
and again it comes back to Shakespeare
01:15:02
he talks about um in the Tempest he
01:15:05
talks about
01:15:06
um these are actors are all gone and
01:15:10
they will leave um all the things
01:15:13
they've had the cloud top Towers the
01:15:16
great Globe itself and he means the
01:15:19
globe of the world and the Globe Theater
01:15:21
you know they shall um disappear um
01:15:25
uh and like this insubstantial pageant
01:15:29
faded leave not a rack behind this is
01:15:32
like life it's an insubstantial pageant
01:15:36
and the rack he's talking about is a
01:15:38
wardrobe
01:15:39
rack so you go in like you do it with
01:15:41
films all the time we go into a location
01:15:44
everything's happening we leave you
01:15:45
can't tell we've been there and I find
01:15:48
that
01:15:49
philosophically potent and theater
01:15:52
Echoes life theater Echoes the world I
01:15:54
mean it's no accident it was called The
01:15:56
Globe because you know it's it's it's
01:16:00
everything you know it's everything in
01:16:02
the human condition and in fact I don't
01:16:04
know be boring about Shakespeare but
01:16:06
Hamlet has an amazing line where he
01:16:08
realizes the ghost of his dead father
01:16:11
tells him that his uncle killed him you
01:16:14
know that that his dad's the brother
01:16:15
killed the brother and it's devastating
01:16:18
right at the beginning of the play sort
01:16:19
of second or third scene in Hamlet's
01:16:21
absolutely devasta almost goes mad by it
01:16:24
but man manages to hang hang on and the
01:16:27
ghost then hears the rooster crow and
01:16:29
says I must leave ad du ad du remember
01:16:32
me Hamlet goes remember Thee I thou poor
01:16:36
ghost and clutches his head while memory
01:16:39
holds a seat in this distracted Globe
01:16:42
remember thee yay from this moment and I
01:16:45
say to these students what's a
01:16:47
distracted globe and they go oh it's the
01:16:48
theater it's it's this brain it's the
01:16:50
theater while memory it's the brain it's
01:16:53
it's it's Shakespeare going it's here
01:16:55
it's it's the globe of the world and
01:16:57
it's the Globe Theater and what do
01:16:59
actors need to learn lines memory so
01:17:03
that line also means as long as actors
01:17:05
remember these lines I will remember you
01:17:08
pretty profound don't you
01:17:10
reckon well my my relationship with
01:17:13
shakes is probably similar to your
01:17:14
relationship with golf yeah okay but you
01:17:17
did you did have me leaning forward in
01:17:19
there like there you go you you got
01:17:21
you're you're just so passionate about
01:17:22
it aren't you well I am passionate about
01:17:24
it and yeah I don't I think passion is
01:17:27
crucial you have to be passionate or and
01:17:30
and look I've been again I don't believe
01:17:34
in fate particularly but I'm so lucky to
01:17:36
have to be here doing this this is you
01:17:40
know so I'm never going to turn in a I'm
01:17:43
never going to phone it
01:17:45
in yeah I can't see you slowing down
01:17:47
either no well unless you know they cut
01:17:49
my legs off or something but you know no
01:17:50
I'm I'm I'm I'm pretty feel pretty fit
01:17:54
yeah and and and um yeah as I say I it's
01:17:59
keeping your brain going you know the
01:18:00
brain is the thing the you know the body
01:18:03
feeds the brain the brain is the thing
01:18:05
you know and that's that's um I think if
01:18:09
I yeah I mean I'm I'm of the opinion if
01:18:12
I'm if if it's if my brain starts going
01:18:15
and if I know it then give me as many
01:18:17
drugs as you can and send me on my way
01:18:18
what about just an earpiece yeah an
01:18:20
earpiece can you imagine it oh my God
01:18:24
actors with earpiece says getting told
01:18:25
their lines yeah yeah no I do know a lot
01:18:28
of a lot of a lot of um actors my age
01:18:30
especially
01:18:32
men I know they tend
01:18:34
to avoid Theater now because they're
01:18:38
scared of forgetting the lines and that
01:18:42
is a pressure but um for me I'm the
01:18:45
opposite I'm going to bring it on until
01:18:47
I until I really can't do it anymore but
01:18:49
at the moment so these lines that we're
01:18:51
learning at the moment for um um for in
01:18:54
other words they're just going in like
01:18:56
that you know but then muscle memory
01:18:59
it's muscle memory it is it's muscle
01:19:01
memory definitely that there is a there
01:19:02
is a a way of getting used to things and
01:19:06
the the TV thing you know where you're
01:19:08
learning just I mean on Hercules I just
01:19:10
look at the scene in the morning and
01:19:11
learn it in the makeup chair you know
01:19:13
learn all the yeah and and I see people
01:19:15
you know it's it's that's how you need
01:19:17
to do it because there are so many lines
01:19:19
over the course of the year you're never
01:19:21
going to retain they go into this
01:19:22
shallow little Basin in your brain and
01:19:25
they go off again you know hey this has
01:19:28
been so much fun been really nice to
01:19:30
connect
01:19:31
good great great feel like I've rattled
01:19:34
on quite a bit but oh no no no it's been
01:19:36
no it's been great I could sit here
01:19:37
listening to these Yar all day when you
01:19:39
flip into into character it's like oh
01:19:41
this this guy can really act oh well
01:19:43
yeah yeah it's quite a lot more but you
01:19:45
know hey this has been brilliant just
01:19:47
before we go um my show sponsors uh the
01:19:49
generate kiwi saers scheme and they'
01:19:51
challenged me to give $20,000 in total
01:19:53
to charity by spreading the word about
01:19:55
the importance of kiwi saer advice and
01:19:57
planning for the future so I've got a a
01:19:59
few questions here and if you can answer
01:20:01
them generate will donate $500 to a
01:20:03
charity of your choice okay great what
01:20:05
would that be or do you want to answer
01:20:06
at the end or oh gosh um is there a
01:20:08
charity that's dear to you or well I
01:20:11
think it would be appropriate to
01:20:13
whatever is the Alzheimer's or dementia
01:20:15
charity I think that's appropriate that
01:20:16
we do that seeing as that's what I'm you
01:20:18
know talking about as well and also
01:20:20
we're getting into this show which is
01:20:24
you know I don't know any anyone that I
01:20:26
know of my age who hasn't got someone a
01:20:29
family member or a friend who was having
01:20:31
a problem with it you know so um and I
01:20:34
know that here's the thing my my mentor
01:20:37
Raymond Hawthorne who was a Titan of the
01:20:40
theater back in the day you know an
01:20:43
absolute muscular really W and he and
01:20:46
taught me everything I know he's in a
01:20:49
facility now and um he has he remembers
01:20:52
me and all the past but he doesn't
01:20:55
remember the last 10 minutes he can't
01:20:57
recall anything recently you watch this
01:20:59
and you know it's heartbreaking but he's
01:21:01
lucky he's in a good place but yeah so
01:21:03
let's do that I think that's that's a
01:21:04
great charity okay Michael HST are you a
01:21:07
spender or a
01:21:09
saver I'm a bit of both I know when to
01:21:12
spend it but I know when to save my
01:21:14
wife's a
01:21:15
saver can I just say that that's good
01:21:19
long there one s a relationship yeah
01:21:21
yeah yeah which means I'm a cautious
01:21:22
spender because I have to I have to ask
01:21:25
the control tower first know what I mean
01:21:27
what what has been your biggest money
01:21:29
mistake there must have been some good
01:21:30
ones during the Hercules there's one
01:21:32
mistake which I I um I I started a
01:21:36
little company uh with a friend who's
01:21:39
who's last no longer a
01:21:40
friend because he he he just took all
01:21:45
the money that was a big mistake I think
01:21:47
I lost I don't know couple hundred, or
01:21:49
something [ __ ] yeah it just just it just
01:21:52
became something that I kept I was the
01:21:53
one that had the money and it just
01:21:55
became something that sort of generated
01:21:57
itself and after a while I really I had
01:22:00
to just cut all ties yeah so that was my
01:22:03
biggest uh mistake actual proper mistake
01:22:07
I think um I think um I have bought a
01:22:10
few unfortunate pairs of trousers in the
01:22:12
time but that was the big one yeah um
01:22:16
who do you who do you talk to when you
01:22:17
have questions about money oh we've got
01:22:19
um we've got a company we've got um uh a
01:22:22
um some people look after I like a money
01:22:25
manager advisor funds manager yeah
01:22:28
because we have um some Investments and
01:22:31
um property on my hickey and and that
01:22:34
and it's it's always good to and they're
01:22:36
great with the tax because the tax
01:22:38
situation is you know we both Jen I both
01:22:42
like to we don't like to owe anything we
01:22:45
just like to be very clean so you know
01:22:47
that's what we do yeah uh what's
01:22:49
something fun you can see yourself doing
01:22:50
in
01:22:51
retirement I know the answer to this
01:22:54
what's retir sort of doing it already um
01:22:57
actually you know there is a bit of that
01:22:59
I would there is some traveling I I
01:23:00
would like to do that's me there is some
01:23:03
uh I've done quite a bit of traveling
01:23:04
but not not in a sort of uh I've done it
01:23:07
with work usually or feeling I'm on a
01:23:09
bit of a budget I would love to there's
01:23:12
some places I want to see I want to go
01:23:13
to Finland I want to do these things so
01:23:16
there are some specific things like that
01:23:18
and they are to do with travel I think
01:23:20
exotic places if you could pick anywhere
01:23:22
to retire in New Zealand where would it
01:23:23
be in
01:23:25
why um well I think it's going to be in
01:23:29
our apartment up on great North Road I'm
01:23:31
I'm sorry to say but uh I I I really
01:23:34
love Orland I've been here since
01:23:36
1979 I've only ever lived in the center
01:23:39
of it so um do you know that's a hard
01:23:42
one cuz I just don't even think about
01:23:45
going into any retirement place or
01:23:48
anything like that just going to live my
01:23:50
life here until it stops I guess and
01:23:53
what do you love most about about being
01:23:54
a
01:23:58
kiwi
01:24:00
um
01:24:02
I think there's a I like the
01:24:08
directness and the downto Earth thing
01:24:11
that goes on I sort of alluded to it
01:24:13
before with that coming from a a
01:24:15
convention I just there's a there's a
01:24:17
sort of dry we shareed a little bit with
01:24:20
the Aussies there's a sort of
01:24:22
dry kind of
01:24:25
tacet something it's not I don't I don't
01:24:28
like the T poppy syndrome it's not that
01:24:31
it's
01:24:32
something it's just really we all know
01:24:36
when someone's being a dick yeah you
01:24:38
know what I mean we're good at smelling
01:24:39
[ __ ] yeah that's right and you just
01:24:41
can see this thing where you just you
01:24:44
know I see it a little bit sometimes
01:24:46
when I'm doing TV shows you know won't
01:24:48
name any names or anything but you'll
01:24:49
see an actor being and you know I'm
01:24:51
sitting there as a director and then
01:24:53
I'll turn I'll look at some of the crew
01:24:54
and you'll see them going you know just
01:24:57
and you just go yeah yeah but you know
01:25:00
yeah I think that's I agree you can do
01:25:01
it with a look like this go for real
01:25:03
yeah yeah yeah I I I really yeah I like
01:25:07
that there's a kind of sense of humor
01:25:08
about life that I think that may become
01:25:11
more and more difficult As the World
01:25:13
Turns I don't know that's a whole other
01:25:15
discussion hey well thanks for answering
01:25:17
those yeah $500 $500 to um an
01:25:21
Alzheimer's or demena charity yeah yeah
01:25:23
that's that New Zealand Alzheimer's
01:25:25
Foundation I think it'll be you know
01:25:26
we'll look it up yeah hey um thanks so
01:25:29
much for your time today is this is this
01:25:30
your first sort of long form yeah
01:25:33
podcast Deep dive into your life yeah oh
01:25:35
it's been an on mate thank you very much
01:25:36
great I've really enjoyed it yeah
01:25:38
likewise got a bit of everything in
01:25:40
there you're going to get in trouble for
01:25:42
the intimacy stuff I no I'm what is she
01:25:45
going to do
