00:00:06
Opie, welcome to my podcast. Your first
00:00:08
podcast. It is my first and uh thanks
00:00:10
for having me, mate. It's great to have
00:00:11
you here. OP OP boss, I was wondering
00:00:13
where you got your name from. Um and
00:00:16
finally, I think I got it. The penny
00:00:17
dropped the other day. So, your your
00:00:19
name is Owen Patrick. And so, that's
00:00:22
like OP as your initials for short.
00:00:24
Yeah, that's right. Um I've always been
00:00:26
called
00:00:27
Op really. My grandmother said to my
00:00:30
mother, you can't call a little baby
00:00:31
Owens. He's not It's an old person's
00:00:34
name. So, I got called Opie.
00:00:36
So, is have I got it right? Is that
00:00:38
because your initials are OP? That's
00:00:40
right. Yeah. And they just put IIE on
00:00:41
the end. Right. Right. Right. So, who
00:00:43
who calls you Owen? Lanco Sullivan. Um,
00:00:46
that's about it.
00:00:48
Why does Cuz he was like one of your
00:00:51
He's He's one of the greatest jockeyies
00:00:52
of all time as well. Lanco Sullivan. I
00:00:54
was actually on um a TV show with him,
00:00:56
Treasure Island. I remember. Um he he
00:00:58
ended up winning. Um he was an [ __ ]
00:01:00
He voted me off very early. Um why does
00:01:03
he call you Owen?
00:01:05
Probably for something different cuz
00:01:07
everyone's called me OP and he's just
00:01:08
just to try and get have an angle that
00:01:10
year, you know. But um yeah, he's be
00:01:12
he's been a my idol when I started
00:01:14
riding and uh and he was a great mentor
00:01:17
when I put to me when I was younger as
00:01:18
well. Yeah. No, he's a good dude. He's a
00:01:20
good um his wife Bridget, she was on the
00:01:22
show as well and she's lovely as well.
00:01:23
So, I reached out to you to get you on
00:01:26
the podcast um because on Boxing Day
00:01:29
2024, you um and this was kind of
00:01:32
shocking in the the horse racing
00:01:33
industry. You announced your retirement.
00:01:35
Yeah, I'd been thinking about it for a
00:01:36
while and um just the losing losing the
00:01:39
weight really was really getting to me
00:01:41
and I was walking around the streets
00:01:43
with sweet gear on on Christmas Day and
00:01:46
watching every everybody having their
00:01:47
dim meals and and you're sitting there,
00:01:50
I've still got to get in the sauna for a
00:01:51
few hours and lose some more weight. And
00:01:52
I was like, I've just had enough. And I
00:01:54
had a few rides and said to one of the
00:01:56
boys, I said, "Oh, I think this might be
00:01:57
my last day." And thought about it all
00:01:59
the way home and made the the decision
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the next morning. Had it been playing on
00:02:03
your mind for a while? It had. Um, the
00:02:05
scary thing was I just didn't know what
00:02:07
was next. Um, but um I still really
00:02:10
don't know what's next just yet, but um
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just wait for the dust to set a little
00:02:15
little bit more and something will pop
00:02:17
up. Yeah, it's um it's it's terrifying.
00:02:20
I've I've had so many um like high
00:02:22
performers on the podcast and um I
00:02:24
suppose the the type that springs to
00:02:26
mind most of all is all blacks and rugby
00:02:27
players and that steep drop off off a
00:02:30
cliff when they retire from rugby and
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some of them get to retire on their own
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terms but a lot of them don't. It's like
00:02:35
something that's made for them and it's
00:02:38
[ __ ] terrifying because there's two
00:02:39
pieces of the puzzle, right? There's the
00:02:41
financial piece of the puzzle which um
00:02:42
you know hopefully you've got in place
00:02:43
but a lot of people don't. Um but then
00:02:45
there's also the fact that life is
00:02:46
actually quite long. You know, people
00:02:48
say life's short, but it's actually
00:02:49
quite long, and you need to find
00:02:51
something else to fill your days up
00:02:52
productively. Yeah, exactly. Like rugby
00:02:55
players, their careers aren't long. Um,
00:02:57
mainly because of injury, but jockeyy's
00:02:59
life is you probably can keep going for
00:03:02
a little bit longer, but I just I find
00:03:05
when you're losing weight and all that
00:03:06
all the time, it's just takes its toll.
00:03:08
and I I just thought my body just had
00:03:10
enough cuz I'm I'm from, by the way, I'm
00:03:13
going to ask a lot of dumb questions
00:03:14
because I don't know a lot about horse
00:03:16
racing, but I am from Palmer North and
00:03:17
um I I got to know um a guy called Nol
00:03:20
Harris reasonably well. He was [ __ ]
00:03:22
old, right? And he was still riding
00:03:23
horses. He must have been in his 60s. He
00:03:25
was I think he's probably one of the
00:03:27
oldest to to keep going. And he's
00:03:30
um a lot of trainers say they should um
00:03:33
what do they say? that put put his body
00:03:36
to science when when he dies cuz there's
00:03:38
going to be never never another person
00:03:39
like it. Yeah. So, um yeah, there's so
00:03:42
much to talk about with you, mate. Like
00:03:44
the um the weight cutting thing. I'm I'm
00:03:45
intrigued about that and I am c curious
00:03:47
to talk about that. But first of all,
00:03:48
let's run through some stats here.
00:03:50
2,146 wins, 259 of them in New Zealand.
00:03:54
So, most of your racing was done in New
00:03:56
Zealand, but you also raced um in
00:03:57
Australia a bit and in Asia. Yes. um
00:04:00
Singapore, Macau, and 99 group one
00:04:04
victories in New Zealand and Australia.
00:04:06
Um first of all, again, probably a dumb
00:04:08
question, but what does what does it
00:04:10
mean? What does a group one mean? Um
00:04:12
group ones are the the pinnacle of um
00:04:15
any race, like the the highest quality
00:04:17
and um the most um status. And you're
00:04:20
the goat of that. No one's no one's won
00:04:23
more than 99. Not not in New Zealand. Um
00:04:27
a New Zealand based jockey anyway. And I
00:04:29
know James McDonald's passed it now and
00:04:31
um but it seems it's quite good to be a
00:04:34
New Zealand base jockey to to achieve
00:04:36
that. Who's who's next on the list? Uh
00:04:38
Lance Sullivan. I think I think he was
00:04:40
on 68.
00:04:43
And he's retired. Are you happy with him
00:04:45
calling you Owen? Because I feel like
00:04:47
with 99 versus 68, if you want him to
00:04:49
call you OP, he can [ __ ] call you OP.
00:04:52
He he should be should by now. Um I've
00:04:55
got a quote here from you in March 2024.
00:04:57
So, this is what, eight, nine months
00:04:59
before you announced your retirement.
00:05:01
Um, in this interview in March 24, you
00:05:03
were asked about your retirement plans
00:05:04
and you said, "I've got a few more years
00:05:06
left barring injuries. I'd like to get
00:05:09
to a 100 group one winners and ride for
00:05:11
a few more seasons."
00:05:14
Yeah, I I I was trying my best to to get
00:05:17
to the to the the 100 and um the the
00:05:21
mind and the body just were saying no.
00:05:23
So I I I don't know maybe a few years
00:05:27
down the track when the body comes right
00:05:29
again I might hit one more crack at that
00:05:31
but um at at this stage I'm definitely
00:05:33
retired. But you're at peace with 99.
00:05:34
Yes. It's just a number.
00:05:37
Yeah. Yeah it is. It is just a number. I
00:05:39
remember Richie McCoy he retired at the
00:05:40
end of the um I think 2015 season. Final
00:05:43
game was the Rugby World Cup final which
00:05:44
the blacks won. He was on 148 test and
00:05:46
there was a lot of like chat people
00:05:48
saying why don't you come back next year
00:05:49
play a couple we'll get to 150. But it's
00:05:51
kind of arbitrary in a way, isn't it?
00:05:53
Yeah. Well, like I know you probably get
00:05:56
remembered for saying, "Oh, you wrote
00:05:57
100 Group One winners, but it's it's not
00:06:00
going to change anything." Um, so that's
00:06:02
why I thought I just go on your own
00:06:04
terms without being injured and Yeah.
00:06:06
So, you're sort of at peace now? Like
00:06:08
it's we're recording this almost um I
00:06:10
don't know, I suppose like three weeks
00:06:11
after that announcement. Are you at
00:06:13
peace? I I am a bit I feel so more
00:06:15
relaxed um that that I don't have to
00:06:18
stress about losing weight and
00:06:20
everything like that. But um at the same
00:06:22
time I'm I'm still helping out riding a
00:06:25
bit of track work just to keep keep fit
00:06:26
and and healthy.
00:06:29
How are you feeling about this because
00:06:30
this is as we said at the beginning this
00:06:32
is your first podcast. Like are you are
00:06:34
you nervous? Are you quite comfortable?
00:06:35
I'm very nervous. My hands are sweating.
00:06:38
Are they? Are they? Well I Yeah. Yeah,
00:06:41
cuz I've spent most of my most of my
00:06:42
adult life, I guess, in a studio. And I
00:06:45
started in radio very young. Um, like
00:06:46
when I was 17. Uh, you started riding
00:06:48
horses um like as an apprentice when you
00:06:50
were 15. So, I suppose like the way
00:06:53
you're feeling now, it would be like me
00:06:54
if I was on the back of a horse. Like
00:06:57
fish out of order really. Like you say,
00:06:58
it's just something different. But, um,
00:07:01
seems to be going so okay so far. Yeah.
00:07:03
Well, I mean, the goal is to relax you
00:07:05
and, um, basically just celebrate your
00:07:06
life and and career. I've done a lot of
00:07:08
research and there's a lot of a lot of
00:07:10
highs. Um, so it' be great to talk about
00:07:12
them and maybe some of the lows as well.
00:07:14
There was, um, yeah, at New Zealand
00:07:16
Herald, they wrote a story about your
00:07:17
retirement. Um, and I've got a quote
00:07:19
here. A genius in the saddle sometimes
00:07:23
troubled out of it. And I Googled I I
00:07:26
couldn't find any dirt on you. What does
00:07:27
that mean?
00:07:29
Uh, had the odd girlfriend here and
00:07:32
there,
00:07:33
but but you looked a little bit weward.
00:07:37
Um, have go and have a night out and go
00:07:39
go for about three nights. So, about uh
00:07:41
slowly growing up, I think. Right. Oh,
00:07:44
that seems a bit um a bit mean-spirited
00:07:46
of the herald to like put that line in
00:07:47
there. Did Did you read that? And well,
00:07:49
oh, that's a little little bit below the
00:07:50
belt. Oh, there's always someone to have
00:07:52
a little dig about something anyway.
00:07:54
Well, if that's the worst thing you've
00:07:55
done, that's not bad. I was thinking
00:07:56
something scandalous in the horse racing
00:07:58
industry. Nothing scandalous. No,
00:07:59
definitely not. No, no, no, no.
00:08:02
Um, what what about other goals? So,
00:08:05
ultimately you wanted to get to 100
00:08:07
group one winners and you got to 99. Um,
00:08:09
but as I said, 20 2,146 wins overall. Is
00:08:13
there um any any goals that you wanted
00:08:15
to achieve that you didn't?
00:08:18
No, I I I I'd love to have won a
00:08:21
Melbourne Cup. Um but I think my best
00:08:25
chance of doing that was a horse
00:08:26
Mongolian Khn and he he won the leadup
00:08:29
race, the Corfield Cup, and then um got
00:08:30
sick two days before um the Melbourne
00:08:32
Cup and his favorite. And so that then
00:08:35
that was my only chance of really
00:08:37
winning a Melbourne Cup. And um that
00:08:38
that was probably my biggest low of my
00:08:40
career. Why is why is Melbourne Cup such
00:08:42
a big deal for a jockey? It's the it's
00:08:45
the the biggest race of Australasia and
00:08:48
even the world now. So like they stops
00:08:51
the nation. So pretty much stops two
00:08:52
nations and um and all the English
00:08:54
horses come in, Japan horses come down
00:08:56
and and go for it. Because you you rode
00:08:58
it a couple of times e but just early in
00:09:00
your career. Yeah, I did. Um then at the
00:09:02
light awaits. So you you've got to be be
00:09:06
able to ride pretty lightly to pick up a
00:09:08
decent ride in that race these days.
00:09:10
What do you mean in terms of the the
00:09:12
body weight of the jockey? Yes. Um it's
00:09:14
usually around about 54 kilos below.
00:09:17
What are you today? Probably about 62.
00:09:19
You fat [ __ ]
00:09:22
What you What do you think? Um, this is
00:09:25
probably something that you've never um
00:09:27
got to enjoy or experience in in the
00:09:29
almost 30 years that you've been racing
00:09:30
as a jockey, but what you what do you
00:09:32
think your comfortable weight will be? I
00:09:34
I think I'm quite comfortable now. I
00:09:36
actually feel a little bit fat. So, um I
00:09:40
think once once you start eating a
00:09:44
normal normal normally in um the weight
00:09:46
will flatten out a bit. Yes. So, so
00:09:49
those two Melbourne Cups you did um so
00:09:50
you you were young at the time like a
00:09:52
teen teenager. Yeah, I think I was 18
00:09:55
and then the second one I was 20. So,
00:09:56
right. So, I read 54 and when I was 18
00:09:59
then 50 kilos the when I was 20. How'd
00:10:02
you get on those gears? No, no good. The
00:10:04
first one I thought was a chance of
00:10:06
winning at the top of the straight, but
00:10:08
uh then he just faded run 11th and the
00:10:11
second one was no chance. It was just
00:10:12
just having having a ride in the race
00:10:14
really. That sounds like the sort of
00:10:15
horse that I usually bet on. just going
00:10:18
around. Um, yeah, again, probably a lot
00:10:20
of dumb questions here, but um, I figure
00:10:22
if if I've got these questions, then a
00:10:24
lot of people listening will have these
00:10:25
questions as well. Um, how much of the
00:10:28
performance of a horse comes down to
00:10:29
like the jockey versus the horse itself?
00:10:31
Like how much of a difference can you
00:10:32
make?
00:10:34
Um, I don't
00:10:36
think if the horse is good enough, it's
00:10:39
it usually can win. But, um, I think as
00:10:41
a jockey, you have to put it in the
00:10:43
right place at the right time and and be
00:10:46
as I say in the right time be in the
00:10:48
right position to attack up the straight
00:10:50
without going past over too many too
00:10:53
much ground and but um the horse is the
00:10:56
the biggest thing cuz some of the
00:10:59
articles I've read about you in the the
00:11:00
past week knowing that we've got this
00:11:01
podcast coming up like people some
00:11:03
really experienced people like um Lanc
00:11:05
Sullivan for example they they talk
00:11:07
about you just having this instinct or
00:11:09
the snack of you getting the horse into
00:11:10
the right place. Yeah. People ask me
00:11:13
after a race like why why'd you do that?
00:11:14
And I was like do what? and they're like
00:11:16
this at this certain point of the race
00:11:17
and I was like I don't know it just
00:11:18
happened like um I'm I'm actually quite
00:11:21
blessed to be able to to do that and um
00:11:24
like you see a lot of people they work
00:11:25
really really hard to try and get that
00:11:27
but it come quite naturally to me.
00:11:30
All right. Well, let's go back to the
00:11:32
early years and then we'll um yeah we'll
00:11:34
we'll work our way through
00:11:35
chronologically the um the the OP Boston
00:11:38
story. So um dad and granddad both
00:11:41
jockeyies. Yep. Your dad was okay but
00:11:44
not brilliant? No, he was an amateur
00:11:46
jockey and I think might have run a
00:11:48
couple of winners but um he he trained a
00:11:50
few horses. That's how pretty much how I
00:11:52
got into it. So, what's your earliest
00:11:54
memory of a horse? Oh, we always had
00:11:57
horses um raceh horses at at the stable.
00:12:00
Not not a big amount, but um I think I
00:12:03
got a photo of me when I was about two
00:12:05
sitting on a horse in the middle of the
00:12:06
paddic by myself. So, that's um probably
00:12:10
the earliest memory I've had. So it was
00:12:11
like a second nature sort of thing
00:12:12
really. Just that comfort of being
00:12:14
around horses I guess it is. Um and I
00:12:16
always wanted to be a jockey from about
00:12:17
the age of three. I had my own set of
00:12:19
colors made and um used to rock around
00:12:22
with them and um it's it's a dream for
00:12:26
me anyway actually. Why yeah why did you
00:12:28
want to why was it just like a kid that
00:12:29
wanted to be like his dad? Yeah. Well, I
00:12:31
think my my dad was always into it and a
00:12:34
lot of his mates were into it and yeah,
00:12:36
I think I think it was just in my head
00:12:37
and and I just love the horse as well.
00:12:40
And where did you go to school? How how
00:12:42
was school by the way? Were you were you
00:12:43
quite small for your size? Yeah. Um I
00:12:46
went to school in Roora. Mhm.
00:12:51
Just having a water break. Um I I I like
00:12:55
school. pretty much went to eat my
00:12:56
lunch, but I was I was quite small, but
00:12:59
um I'd go to school to play rugby and um
00:13:03
then I had to make this decision when I
00:13:04
um whether I wanted to be a rugby player
00:13:07
or or a jockey and I was like, "Well,
00:13:09
I'm definitely going to have to be a
00:13:09
jockey." I'm not big enough to be a
00:13:11
rugby player. Oh, you could have been
00:13:13
all right as a half, couldn't you?
00:13:14
That's pretty much what I Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:15
Yeah. Um were you were you teased at
00:13:17
school for being small or not really?
00:13:20
Not really.
00:13:22
Um the odd bully, but um I I I grew up
00:13:27
in quite a quite a tough school too and
00:13:29
but um we all seem to get on. Okay.
00:13:32
Yeah. I don't think anyone So when was
00:13:33
this like in the 80s or the ' 90s? 80s.
00:13:36
Yeah. I don't think anyone sort of gets
00:13:37
through unscathed e like everyone is
00:13:38
going to be subjected to some sort of
00:13:40
bullying for something. Um yeah this
00:13:43
lowlevel banter bullying call it
00:13:45
whatever whatever you want to. Um, okay.
00:13:48
So, you you started at 15 in 1990.
00:13:52
95.
00:13:54
Why have I got How old do you think I
00:13:56
am?
00:13:59
Wonder what are you? 43 44.
00:14:02
Why have I got 1990 in Darville? That's
00:14:04
Yeah, 95 in Darville. Oh, 95 in
00:14:06
Darville. Okay. Um, do you remember
00:14:07
that? That was your first race. Yes, I
00:14:09
had four races that day. Um I think my
00:14:12
first one was a horse good commit and
00:14:14
she bucked the jockey off this the start
00:14:16
before but um she I think she ran about
00:14:19
fifth and then my second ride I got beat
00:14:21
nose and I didn't I didn't ride a winner
00:14:22
for my first 17 rides. How nervous were
00:14:25
you the first time your first proper
00:14:27
race day? Oh I was nervous but you you
00:14:30
don't really know what's going on
00:14:31
either. Um which you can be a bit naive
00:14:33
and and I I was had good bosses and
00:14:37
people around me that train me up quite
00:14:38
well. Yeah. There's a saying I really
00:14:40
like that um youth is wasted on the
00:14:42
young. You have this sort of youthful
00:14:44
like brashness or arrogance or ignorance
00:14:46
or whatever you want to call it. Yeah.
00:14:47
Do you feel like that was the case with
00:14:48
you? Oh, 100%. Right through my
00:14:50
apprentichip I thought. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:51
Yeah. Yeah. So, when did your
00:14:52
apprentichip when did you leave school?
00:14:54
I left school the day I turned 15 and
00:14:56
then 3 months later I rated my first
00:14:58
race and then back back then you had to
00:15:01
do five years apprentichip and in
00:15:03
October in 2000 I came out.
00:15:08
Yeah. What does the apprenticeship
00:15:10
entail? Um you you you got to work
00:15:13
during the day for your boss and um like
00:15:16
like stable duties and um and stuff like
00:15:20
that. But when you come out you're on
00:15:21
your own. You can do whatever you want.
00:15:23
Oh, okay. So you're um but you go the
00:15:25
ultimate goal is to be a jockey. So you
00:15:26
do like to say track work in the
00:15:28
morning. Yeah. And then st um stable
00:15:30
duties like mcking stables out and Yeah.
00:15:33
tough apprenticeship. Eh, it is long
00:15:35
hours. Um, yeah. Like what? I start
00:15:38
start at 4:30 and um till 11:00 and then
00:15:42
go back at 2 till 5. That's that's what
00:15:44
we used to do every day for 5 years.
00:15:46
Yeah. And and towards the end of it,
00:15:49
this is when you were riding Melbourne
00:15:50
Cup. Yeah. But I I used I used to spend
00:15:53
a lot of time in Australia, so they sent
00:15:55
me over to ride in Australia. But so I
00:15:56
I'd kind of work it out. I' ride at the
00:15:58
races enough and trials and so I didn't
00:16:01
have to didn't have to go to do all the
00:16:03
stable work. Like would it have mattered
00:16:05
if you didn't complete your your
00:16:07
apprenticeship? Like if you're at the
00:16:08
level where you're riding Melbourne Cup
00:16:09
horses before you finish your
00:16:11
apprentichip, you're obviously, you
00:16:12
know, you're you're well on the way. You
00:16:14
you have to you have to finish your
00:16:16
apprentichip. Okay. Yeah. Um so for you
00:16:18
to get your license as a senior jockey,
00:16:20
right? And your first one that was a
00:16:22
horse called Fairly Fairly Early. Yeah,
00:16:24
that's right. Yeah. Where was that? What
00:16:26
what are your recollections about that
00:16:27
day? That was at Gisbon. Um is for my
00:16:29
godfather Steven Orchard. He was
00:16:31
training for Thiago then and um he was
00:16:33
one of my favorite horses in the stable
00:16:34
too which was quite fitting.
00:16:37
Was that horse supposed to win? Um he he
00:16:40
wasn't a great horse but he um end up
00:16:43
winning three or four races so handy.
00:16:46
Yeah. And you said before that it was
00:16:47
like 17 17 races before you had a win.
00:16:50
Um so that must have been incredibly
00:16:51
satisfying for you. You Yeah. You must
00:16:53
have been elated. Yeah, it was. It was
00:16:55
only a few weeks. I had four races my
00:16:57
first day. So, um, and then probably
00:17:00
another five the next day. So, it was
00:17:01
probably about my third race meeting.
00:17:03
Okay. Yeah. Um, and 420 winners by the
00:17:06
time your apprentichip finished at the
00:17:07
age of 20. Yeah. Was that is that is
00:17:10
that a good amount? Like in in horse
00:17:11
circles were people like Shopee. He's
00:17:14
he's he's good. Yeah. I think um only
00:17:16
James McDonald and Michael Walker are
00:17:19
the only ones that have um done better
00:17:21
than that. Yeah.
00:17:23
Um Yeah. And do you have a favorite
00:17:25
horse? Uh, Imperatric is my favorite.
00:17:28
Um, she was just so fast and um had had
00:17:32
so much success on her. Won nine group
00:17:33
ones on her and um she she was um she
00:17:37
was a champion in my eyes anyway. Yeah,
00:17:39
these these will probably be some dumb
00:17:40
another set of dumb questions here. But
00:17:42
um yeah, I'm intrigued about the um like
00:17:45
the jockey horse relationship. So
00:17:48
because it's not a case of you just
00:17:48
turning up to a race mate, them giving
00:17:50
you a horse and say, you know, you have
00:17:52
quite a lot to do with each horse,
00:17:53
right? Um, sometimes you've never ridden
00:17:55
the horse before. Um, oh, a lot of the
00:17:57
times. Oh, really? Yeah. So, you just
00:17:59
rock up and the trainer tells you what
00:18:02
it's like and everything like that and
00:18:03
and you do a bit of form on it like how
00:18:05
it's trled or how it's raced in previous
00:18:08
races. But, um, and nine nine times out
00:18:11
of 10 you rock up and never even touched
00:18:13
the horse before.
00:18:15
No [ __ ] way. I I assumed that it was
00:18:18
like a very special relationship between
00:18:20
a horse and and a and a jockey. like you
00:18:21
you can sort of sense how they're
00:18:22
feeling and you've done all the track
00:18:24
work with them. Is that is that not the
00:18:26
what are you doing all the track work
00:18:27
for at 4:30 in the morning if you're not
00:18:28
riding on the specific that's that's
00:18:30
with um the stable I work with at Takal
00:18:32
um in Madame but um yeah but you can't
00:18:36
you can't be everywhere where so you go
00:18:38
to Palmer North and you ride for
00:18:39
different trainers you yeah go go to
00:18:42
well anywhere really and there's just so
00:18:44
many different trainers and you can't
00:18:45
really get yourself around to train
00:18:46
train all their horses. Yeah, but surely
00:18:48
if there was like specific like horses
00:18:50
that you were riding on a a lot of the
00:18:53
time, like you and the horse would get
00:18:54
to know each other and you'd both
00:18:56
perform better as a duo. Yeah. I got to
00:18:59
get into the horse industry. You they've
00:19:00
been doing it all wrong. Yeah. I I get
00:19:03
to know the horses that I work with at
00:19:04
Tiaka. Um I know pretty much every
00:19:07
single one of them, but um yeah, but um
00:19:09
other horses you you just rock up and
00:19:12
jump on and see how you go. Mhm. And do
00:19:16
you as as a jockey, do you get emotional
00:19:18
when like a horse that you've had a lot
00:19:19
to do with like gets unwell or gets
00:19:21
injured or passes away?
00:19:24
No, not really. May I got a little bit
00:19:27
emotional when Imperatric retired
00:19:30
um only cuz I in the back of my mind I
00:19:33
knew I wasn't far off retiring after
00:19:36
her. But um it's you probably get used
00:19:39
to it when horses finish racing and um
00:19:42
or one gets hurt.
00:19:44
It happens. It happens a little bit, but
00:19:46
um you you just got to let it put in the
00:19:49
back of your mind and not really worry
00:19:50
about it. Yeah. Actually, just Yeah.
00:19:53
What you were saying before about
00:19:54
turning up to a race and riding a horse,
00:19:55
I suppose, like if you're going to have
00:19:57
to whip a horse, it's probably easy to
00:19:59
do it if it's a horse you don't know
00:20:00
rather than a horse that you've become
00:20:02
quite close with.
00:20:05
No, you just got that will to win.
00:20:06
Unless it's like you don't really that
00:20:08
all just goes, right? Um I saw um a post
00:20:11
raised speech on YouTube where um yeah
00:20:14
you you started crying or you were
00:20:15
cracking up uh talking fondly about the
00:20:18
horse Melody Bell.
00:20:20
Yeah I I had a lot of success on her. Um
00:20:25
so she was the horse I I won every
00:20:28
single group one race on in New Zealand.
00:20:30
So she was the the one that I got the
00:20:32
last one on which I I hadn't won. So um
00:20:35
it was quite an emotional day to get to
00:20:37
get them all done. Yeah. Oh, so so it
00:20:40
was emotional. What? Because of the
00:20:42
because of the horse or just because
00:20:43
you're like your own personal personal
00:20:45
sort of sense of achievement. Yeah. Just
00:20:47
Yeah. The the own achievement and and
00:20:50
you when when you're wasting the
00:20:52
emotions come when you're losing weight
00:20:54
all the time, the emotions come a lot
00:20:55
quicker. You get a little bit Yeah. Oh.
00:20:58
Because you haven't eaten for like three
00:21:00
days. Dry.
00:21:03
All right. Yeah, that makes perfect
00:21:04
sense. What about horses that you um you
00:21:06
didn't like? Oh, there's a few any any
00:21:09
one that bucks me off or something like
00:21:10
that
00:21:11
going you don't really like them too
00:21:14
much unless they're really fast. But
00:21:16
um there's not that many that you come
00:21:18
across that you you just don't like. Um
00:21:21
usually at the races are a lot easier to
00:21:22
ride and because they know they've got a
00:21:24
job to do and in a race they seem to be
00:21:26
a lot easier. How do they know they've
00:21:28
got a job to do? That's what they're
00:21:29
trained to do, right? And yeah, they
00:21:31
love it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. There's um I'm
00:21:36
sure these people won't be listening to
00:21:37
this podcast, but yeah, there are there
00:21:39
are a lot of people that you know are
00:21:41
anti- horse racing. Um you generally see
00:21:44
them come out every time there's an
00:21:45
incident at the Melbourne Cup or
00:21:46
something. Um yeah, what do what are
00:21:48
your thoughts on that? The horses the
00:21:49
horses like at the level you're riding,
00:21:51
they're treated very well, eh? Oh, that
00:21:53
they're treated like athletes. Um they
00:21:55
they get um they go on the treadmill,
00:21:57
they get
00:21:58
um baths and like Yeah. And they live
00:22:02
like kings. They get brushed every day
00:22:04
and fed fed like when like kings as
00:22:07
well. So, um I I I just wish those
00:22:10
people would come in and actually see
00:22:12
how well they're looked after. Yeah. I
00:22:14
suppose it's just triggering for some
00:22:16
people when you know you see a horse get
00:22:17
injured and then it's the curtain gets
00:22:19
put up and it gets shot.
00:22:21
Um what's the sort of emotion like in
00:22:23
your line of work are at the stables
00:22:25
when something like that happens? I you
00:22:27
see a lot of the the staff that work at
00:22:30
the stables, they look after that horse
00:22:31
and that's their pride and joy and that
00:22:33
that's you really feel sorry for them
00:22:35
because so as a jockey I I just turn up
00:22:37
and ride them in the mornings and then I
00:22:39
go home but they look after the horse
00:22:40
all day which is um it's quite sad when
00:22:43
you see one get hurt and and those
00:22:46
people really suffer. What what about
00:22:48
you? Have you had any bad injuries?
00:22:50
What's the worst accident you've had?
00:22:51
You've been bugged off a horse and run
00:22:52
over by other horses? Um, I've broken a
00:22:55
collarbone, a few shoulders, and um, a
00:22:58
few ribs and a sternum. Um, but
00:23:02
touchwood, but I've been quite lucky um,
00:23:04
over the years. And, um, I'm just got
00:23:07
those niggly little pains, but that's
00:23:09
just from wear and tear.
00:23:12
Compared to most jockeyies like with
00:23:13
your age and your experience. Yeah. Have
00:23:15
you got off quite lightly? I've been
00:23:16
very lucky. Yeah. A few few of my mates
00:23:18
have broken their backs and necks and
00:23:20
Yeah. Really? Like so you've got some
00:23:23
friends that um like can no longer walk
00:23:25
or I've I've got one guy I used to ride
00:23:28
with. He's he was riding a horse and it
00:23:30
just stumbled and he went head first and
00:23:32
he's he's in a wheelchair and there's
00:23:34
another good jockey in Hong Kong um Thai
00:23:37
England. He's Australian based but he
00:23:40
had a horse knuckle over coming out of
00:23:42
the gates and um he's paralyzed as well.
00:23:46
I I can't imagine many things more
00:23:47
terrifying than like riding a horse at
00:23:50
your level and being like in a in a pack
00:23:52
amongst other horses. Yeah, it only
00:23:54
takes one wrong move. If someone falls
00:23:56
in front of you and there's nowhere
00:23:58
really to go, you just go over top. And
00:24:00
it um if someone says it doesn't hurt,
00:24:02
they're lying because it it does hurt.
00:24:05
Is is that why um is that why you made a
00:24:07
point in your career being at the front
00:24:08
so there was no one in front of you that
00:24:10
could at the front at the right time?
00:24:11
Anyway, um uh uh what else we Oh, the
00:24:15
overseas stuff. So, yeah, you raced in
00:24:17
Australia a little bit and um and
00:24:19
Singapore, you said. What what are those
00:24:20
what are your reflections like on those
00:24:22
um experiences? Um Singapore um was a
00:24:25
great experience. Um it was beautiful
00:24:27
country to live in. Um the the racing
00:24:30
back then was um was first class and had
00:24:33
quite a lot of success there in some big
00:24:35
races and um Australia it's like a
00:24:38
second home really now. like for a while
00:24:41
they was flying over every weekend and
00:24:43
go over on Friday night then come back
00:24:44
Saturday night. So it's um racing is
00:24:47
pretty much like here.
00:24:50
Yeah. And I I you've mentioned before
00:24:52
the weight thing a couple of times
00:24:53
actually and um yeah. So let's let's get
00:24:55
into that and the nuances of that. I've
00:24:57
actually had a guy on the um podcast
00:24:58
before called uh George Lockhart who's
00:25:01
um Joseph Parker's trainer at the
00:25:02
moment. He's done lots of stuff over the
00:25:04
years. Um he's known as like the world's
00:25:06
best weight cutter in fighting circles.
00:25:08
worked with like Conor McGregor, Holly
00:25:11
Holm, um the Furies, now Joseph Parker.
00:25:15
Um what does it entail for you? Is this
00:25:17
something you have to do like almost
00:25:18
every weekend? Uh yeah. Yeah. Pretty
00:25:22
much nearly most days of the week. Um so
00:25:25
I go I put sweat like a sauna suit on
00:25:28
and jackets and all that and go for a
00:25:30
walk or a run to to to sweat. And then
00:25:33
every every night I jump in the hot bath
00:25:35
and and sweat in there for a couple
00:25:37
hours. and the morning of the races do
00:25:38
the same thing. Um, but you're just like
00:25:42
a sponge. You squeeze in all the sweat
00:25:44
out and as soon as you have something to
00:25:46
drink, you just go straight back on. And
00:25:48
in terms of in terms of diet and stuff
00:25:49
during the week, yeah, you got to watch
00:25:51
what you eat. Um, towards the end I got
00:25:54
a little bit slack and was enjoying
00:25:56
probably too many beers and too much
00:25:58
food, but only because my heart wasn't
00:26:00
really in it. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's I I
00:26:04
struggle to understand like with this
00:26:05
guy George Lockhart like how a fighter
00:26:07
can get to the point where they're
00:26:08
carrying too much weight and where
00:26:10
they've got months and months in between
00:26:12
each each fight. But um yeah, if you're
00:26:15
doing it like week in week out like you
00:26:17
were that like you you were keeping
00:26:20
yourself at a good weight. Did you just
00:26:22
have like one treat day a week and that
00:26:23
was when you finished racing in the
00:26:25
weekend or It was pretty much on a
00:26:26
Sunday you bar like a barbecue day and
00:26:28
beers day. But um with the with the
00:26:30
fighters that they weigh out like the
00:26:33
day before and they don't have to weigh
00:26:35
back in at that weight. They they can
00:26:36
eat and drink whatever they want. So we
00:26:37
we have to weigh out and then after the
00:26:40
race weigh back in at this at that
00:26:42
weight again. So it it just goes you
00:26:45
can't really have anything till the end
00:26:46
of the whole end of the day of racing.
00:26:51
It's not a fun way to spend your 20s and
00:26:53
your 30s, is it? Yeah. If you really
00:26:56
liked it would be the easiest job in the
00:26:58
world. Yeah. Well, for me anyway. Um
00:27:02
there was one race I saw on online um
00:27:04
the Caracillions where there's a crowd
00:27:06
chanting um there's only one OP Boston.
00:27:09
Yeah. Do you like do you do you remember
00:27:10
that? Yeah, I do. I remember pulling up
00:27:13
down the back street and you can just
00:27:14
hear this chant and I was trying to work
00:27:15
out what what they were saying and the
00:27:17
closer I got coming back it was you
00:27:19
realized what they were saying and one
00:27:21
of the boys is like just stop and listen
00:27:23
to this. You'll probably never ever see
00:27:25
this ever again. And um it was it was it
00:27:27
was really cool actually and like that
00:27:30
you had so many fans out there and
00:27:31
chanting your name like felt like an all
00:27:34
really. Yeah. So the crack a million. So
00:27:36
that was that's a really big race. Yeah.
00:27:38
This this 2-year-old race which is worth
00:27:40
a million and um and a three-y old race
00:27:42
was worth a million on on the same
00:27:44
night. Um and lucky enough had a lot of
00:27:46
success in those. Amazing. So that night
00:27:49
when they were yelling out there's one
00:27:50
OP Boston, did you win them like the
00:27:51
main the main the main race of the day?
00:27:53
Yeah, I won both of them. Yeah. So wow.
00:27:55
Wow. Wow. Wow. It's been I won I think
00:27:56
I've won the race five times. So, and
00:27:58
when you're racing, can you hear
00:27:59
anything from the stands or from the the
00:28:01
speakers or not? Really? Sometimes
00:28:04
sometimes you can hear the crowd, but um
00:28:05
you kind of block that block all that
00:28:07
out, but um you nine times out of 10,
00:28:10
you don't hear anything.
00:28:12
Yeah. And that crowd um chanting your
00:28:17
name. Yeah, that must be surreal. Yeah.
00:28:21
I don't know. It's you can't it's hard
00:28:22
to explain like you're just sitting
00:28:24
there listening to them. But
00:28:25
um that's makes that's what make what
00:28:28
keeps you going when you when you hear
00:28:31
people like that yelling at your name
00:28:32
yelling out your name in a good way and
00:28:35
uh but uh yeah that's it's quite
00:28:38
exciting really. Has there been people
00:28:40
yelling out your name in not a good way?
00:28:42
Oh yeah you cop it all the time. Oh like
00:28:45
from who? Oh, people over the fence just
00:28:47
telling you to give up. And a Australia
00:28:50
is probably the worst because they they
00:28:52
love a punt over there and if if you
00:28:54
stuff up, they give it to you. Oh. Oh,
00:28:57
so those guys in the stand, they
00:28:58
obviously like they had had bet on the
00:29:00
horse that you were riding. So they were
00:29:01
related. Yeah, they must been happy. Oh,
00:29:04
is that right? Well, yeah. I suppose um
00:29:06
God, better to abuse the jockey than the
00:29:07
horse, I suppose. The horse is not going
00:29:09
to listen really.
00:29:11
Well, but did that sort of criticism
00:29:13
hurt? like when you're out there and
00:29:14
you're doing your best and you you kind
00:29:16
of just block it out. Um but you you get
00:29:19
people on social media message you and
00:29:23
abusing you. I've had death threats um
00:29:26
and had to get escorted off the course
00:29:29
and the police involved and they they
00:29:30
found out where I lived and said they
00:29:32
were going to come and kill me and stuff
00:29:33
like that. But they they found them. The
00:29:35
police found them after about 6 months.
00:29:39
That's terrifying. It was at the time
00:29:41
because you you weren't sure if they're
00:29:43
joking or not cuz nine times out of 10
00:29:45
you just like yeah whatever. And but
00:29:47
when they when you find out they know
00:29:49
where you live and everything they tell
00:29:50
you we know where you live and that
00:29:52
scares you a little bit.
00:29:54
Jesus. Where was that? It was after a
00:29:56
crack million race meeting. Yeah.
00:29:59
Obviously not that one where you won. I
00:30:00
didn't win that one. I won. Everyone
00:30:02
wanted to be mate that day. I won one of
00:30:04
them but I got beat in the second one
00:30:05
and they didn't like that. Wow. And um
00:30:08
yeah, I mean there's those guys in the
00:30:09
stand, but like do do jockeyies have
00:30:11
groupies?
00:30:14
Not not really. Um not that I know
00:30:17
of.
00:30:19
Um it's been be nothing like the All
00:30:21
Blacks or anything like that. Like
00:30:23
sports stars like them more in the more
00:30:26
in the um the spotlight. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:28
Yeah. Yeah. Um there's been a couple of
00:30:31
huge honors in your career. The uh 2023
00:30:33
King's birthday honors. What was that?
00:30:35
What what did you get in the Queen's
00:30:36
birthday on sorry King's birthday honor
00:30:39
2023 Owen said him um yeah there was a
00:30:43
bit of a shock when I got an email
00:30:45
saying they've been
00:30:47
um being accepted like not accepted but
00:30:50
um the king's honor um award and was
00:30:55
bloody nerve-wracking going up there and
00:30:57
getting the medal and everything like
00:30:58
that. Yeah. So how does that come about?
00:31:00
Does do do does someone nominate you or
00:31:02
Yes, I think if someone nominates you
00:31:04
and then
00:31:06
um then it takes takes them a few Oh,
00:31:10
they they told me six months beforehand
00:31:12
and I wasn't allowed to tell anybody and
00:31:14
um but it was so bloody nerve-wracking
00:31:17
on the day. So, you you get told you're
00:31:19
not allowed to tell anyone. This is
00:31:20
interesting. I've had so many so many
00:31:21
people on the podcast that have um had
00:31:23
you know various um honors like this.
00:31:25
Who did you tell? No one tells
00:31:27
absolutely nobody. Oh, I know. you
00:31:29
taught it for your for your mates.
00:31:32
It's like just don't say anything.
00:31:35
And then um Oh yeah. Why was it
00:31:37
nerve-wracking? So you go to government
00:31:38
house, do you? Yeah. Um well, I've never
00:31:42
I'm not really a out there kind of guy.
00:31:44
I get bit quite shy and everything like
00:31:46
that. And um to receive something like
00:31:48
that was
00:31:50
um I was I've [ __ ] myself really.
00:31:54
Amazing. Yeah, we've been um chatting
00:31:57
for maybe half an hour now, and that's
00:31:58
um definitely the impression I get about
00:32:00
you. Like, yeah, you're not I don't
00:32:02
know. I I don't know what I expected. I
00:32:04
probably expected someone more I don't
00:32:07
know. I don't know. Maybe more more more
00:32:09
brash, more more arrogant, more cocky.
00:32:12
No, I've never been like that. And
00:32:15
um it's just something I I don't enjoy
00:32:20
seeing real cocky like jockeyies come
00:32:22
along and you're like, just calm down.
00:32:24
this. You got to treat everyone the
00:32:26
same, you know, like Yeah. You got to
00:32:28
tell them no one likes a cocky job. Were
00:32:30
you Were you cocky when you were
00:32:31
younger, though? No, I was very I'm very
00:32:33
shy. Um that's probably why I'm quite
00:32:36
shy now. So,
00:32:37
um if you got cocky when I was growing
00:32:40
up, the old man would put you back in
00:32:42
the place in your place straight away.
00:32:43
But did did you ever have like a co like
00:32:45
a cocky phase or a phase where where you
00:32:47
know you realize you were good or you
00:32:49
start to get high on your own supply?
00:32:51
you know, you're winning these races,
00:32:52
everyone's telling you how awesome you
00:32:54
are. Um, did it ever get to your head?
00:32:57
Not that I know of. Some people might
00:32:59
say I might have been a little bit, but
00:33:01
um I've always tried to keep um quite
00:33:03
humble and Yeah. So, um my mind I think
00:33:07
no, not at all. A lot of people said to
00:33:09
me, you've always been the same from day
00:33:10
one.
00:33:12
When you hear that, that must be
00:33:13
incredibly satisfying. I think that's a
00:33:15
huge compliment. Eh, it is cool cuz I I
00:33:17
I don't want to be I don't like talking
00:33:20
about myself really. So, um, no, it's
00:33:21
pretty cool when someone does say that
00:33:22
to you. Yeah. And the, um, in 2023, same
00:33:25
year as the King's birthday honors, um,
00:33:26
you were inducted into the racing hall
00:33:28
of fame. What does that mean? It's, um,
00:33:32
the racing industry, um, recognize you
00:33:35
for your achievements. And, um, that's
00:33:37
probably one thing that I really wanted
00:33:39
to to to get um, just be acknowledged
00:33:43
for what I've done in the in the saddle.
00:33:45
Um and that was
00:33:47
um that that's I got quite emotional
00:33:50
when um accepting that. Did you? Yeah.
00:33:53
Started tearing up and choking up and um
00:33:56
but um had to sit put my head down for a
00:33:59
bit, pull myself together, but uh no, it
00:34:02
was um that's that's probably the
00:34:03
highest sign I I thought I've had. Yeah.
00:34:06
Well, was was it a surprise or was it
00:34:07
just like standing up there in front of
00:34:09
your peers and stuff that made you
00:34:10
emotional? Yeah, it was a bit. And
00:34:12
um and again, they they told me six
00:34:15
months before and I wasn't allowed to
00:34:16
tell anyone about that either. Heard you
00:34:18
tell a couple of notes.
00:34:21
You're terrible with secrets.
00:34:24
But you think you're you're ready for
00:34:26
it, but uh not when you get up onto the
00:34:28
stage. Yeah.
00:34:29
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, who like who were
00:34:32
you looking at in the room? Like were
00:34:33
there some faces you saw that made you
00:34:35
emotional or No, it's just I try not to
00:34:38
look at anyone like went when you when
00:34:41
you watch the um the footage and people
00:34:43
talking about you and everything like
00:34:45
that and see and the good horses you've
00:34:47
ridden um on on the TV watching it
00:34:50
beforehand that starts starts to get you
00:34:52
going straight away. Would you describe
00:34:54
yourself as quite an emotional guy?
00:34:57
Not really. Um just just at certain
00:35:00
times. Yeah. I mean I'm usually pretty
00:35:01
chilled.
00:35:03
And like just in reflection of your
00:35:05
career like what would you say um are
00:35:07
the best and worst things about being a
00:35:08
jockey? Worst I'd say must be the weight
00:35:10
cutting which we've sort of established
00:35:11
just how arduous that is. Oh 100% the
00:35:13
worst is pretty much why I I retired. Um
00:35:17
but there's no nothing better than
00:35:20
riding a winner. It doesn't really
00:35:21
matter if it's a a maiden win for $5,000
00:35:25
or a $3 million race. It's you can be
00:35:29
down and out and having a bad day as
00:35:30
soon as you get that winner just picks
00:35:32
you straight back up.
00:35:34
Yeah. And what about the people? Um,
00:35:37
I've met a lot of great people, a lot of
00:35:39
close friends.
00:35:40
Um, I've pretty much been in it since I
00:35:43
was 14. So, um, pretty much all my
00:35:45
friends are are racing people. And, um,
00:35:48
yeah, I've got some really close mates.
00:35:51
Oh, yeah. Oh. Um, your first wife, she
00:35:54
was a jockey. Sam Sprat. Yes. Yeah.
00:35:56
Yeah. Did Do you guys ever race each
00:35:57
other? Oh, all the time. Really? Yeah.
00:35:59
Yeah. Yeah. We've raced with each other
00:36:03
pretty much all all the way through.
00:36:04
Yeah. How'd that work?
00:36:06
Um M's pretty good actually. We we get
00:36:09
on we get on quite well. Um and she's
00:36:11
she's going really really well at the
00:36:12
moment. Is she still writing? Yeah, she
00:36:15
is. Yeah, she's um one of our leading
00:36:17
writers. Yeah. How long how long were
00:36:19
you guys married for? Oh, only a couple
00:36:22
of years. We've we've got a a son Cody.
00:36:24
He's he's 19. Yeah. Oh, so Michelle that
00:36:27
was ages ago. Ago. Yeah. Oh. Oh. So it
00:36:30
wasn't Yeah. It wasn't weird when you
00:36:31
were like racing each other going
00:36:32
headtohead like it wasn't like um at
00:36:34
home the day before you you have to stay
00:36:35
out out of each other's space and No,
00:36:38
not really. It's um you just go there
00:36:40
and do your job. Yeah, you you get to
00:36:42
know all the jockeyies quite well cuz
00:36:44
you you spend a lot of time with them in
00:36:45
the jockeyies room and um give each
00:36:47
other a bit of [ __ ] and stuff like that.
00:36:49
But
00:36:50
uh everyone just not not out there to to
00:36:53
try and cause an accident or anything
00:36:55
like that. So people they do respect
00:36:57
you. M she's um you sorry you can tell
00:37:01
me tell me to [ __ ] off if you don't want
00:37:02
to answer this but um how do you how do
00:37:04
you get married and it only lasts two
00:37:07
years probably a little bit too young I
00:37:12
think and yeah I don't really want to
00:37:15
answer it
00:37:18
I reckon I could probably guess okay
00:37:20
we'll let that one slide um yeah yeah
00:37:23
yeah yeah um on you you've been married
00:37:26
yeah according to Wikipedia, you've um
00:37:28
you got married uh and you your marriage
00:37:31
broke up like in 20 2024 last year. That
00:37:34
was a seven-year one. Yes. So, two
00:37:36
marriages down now. Yeah. How's how's
00:37:38
that? Is it hard? Oh, it's very hard.
00:37:40
Yeah.
00:37:41
Um it's um
00:37:44
it's something I don't really like to
00:37:47
talk about and um because it's still
00:37:49
very new. So, um we're just still trying
00:37:52
to work through the process of that.
00:37:53
Yeah. Yeah. I've um yeah had a failed
00:37:56
marriage myself and it it it [ __ ]
00:37:58
sucks. It's hard. Yeah. Well, you have
00:38:00
to do it over the ra on the radio too.
00:38:04
Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like um
00:38:06
adversities that you've been through
00:38:07
like cuz no one no one gets to no one no
00:38:10
one gets to the privilege of being in
00:38:11
their sort of early to mid-40s without
00:38:13
going through some adversity. Was that
00:38:15
be some of the biggest the relationship
00:38:16
stuff or is there other stuff? Um I
00:38:19
think that's that's probably the
00:38:20
biggest. Um and like you get a bit of
00:38:24
depression and um from from cutting
00:38:26
weight and um and things aren't going
00:38:30
right. Right. But
00:38:31
um this I still get help now to go and
00:38:35
talk to someone to try and get me back
00:38:38
on track. Yeah. Do you Yeah. I was going
00:38:40
to ask I was going to ask about your um
00:38:41
your mental health. That's something I
00:38:42
like to discuss with um my guests. Yeah.
00:38:45
In terms of depression and stuff. Yeah.
00:38:47
Just um Yeah. You've experienced that?
00:38:50
Oh yeah, for sure. It's it's not
00:38:52
something you can just say, "Oh, you'll
00:38:53
be right." Because it's you're you're
00:38:55
not. And I think the best thing is to go
00:38:57
and talk to somebody and um get things
00:39:00
put into place and um take and try and
00:39:02
take the right steps. When did you first
00:39:04
start um getting some counseling? I've
00:39:06
I've gone through stages, but I've I've
00:39:09
been getting counseling the last uh
00:39:11
probably six months. Yeah. How do you
00:39:12
find that helpful? Um, yeah. And the
00:39:16
person I go to has nothing to do with
00:39:18
racing and um does didn't know who I who
00:39:21
I am or anything like that. So, which is
00:39:23
good. Yes. I was the age you are now. I
00:39:25
was probably about that same age when I
00:39:26
went to a therapist for the first time
00:39:28
and um I I found it really really good
00:39:30
and uh I'd been um I should have done it
00:39:33
years earlier and I I don't know why I
00:39:34
kept on putting it off but um you know
00:39:36
you get to go there and you sit down and
00:39:38
you sort of talk about yourself for an
00:39:39
hour and I thought it was going to be
00:39:40
weird and I thought I I don't know where
00:39:42
to start. Um but you realize they're the
00:39:44
professional and they sort of take care
00:39:45
of it for you. It's it's bloody great.
00:39:47
That's exactly how I felt. Um and
00:39:50
there's a lot of lot of um a lot of the
00:39:53
boys go and see um sports psychiatrists
00:39:55
as well and um and I think that really
00:39:58
helps and there's um people in the New
00:40:00
Zealand racing that um they put that in
00:40:03
place as well for for the jockeyies to
00:40:04
go and reach out. Yeah. How Yeah. How
00:40:06
are you today from a mental health
00:40:08
perspective? You feeling good? I'm good.
00:40:10
Yeah. Good as gold. um feel like I got a
00:40:12
bit of pressure off off my shoulders
00:40:13
with without having to lose weight and
00:40:15
can eat and drink whatever I want at the
00:40:16
moment. So, I feel really good. Yeah.
00:40:21
Yeah, that's good because I suppose it
00:40:22
could it could go two ways. E like you
00:40:24
could feel like um a sense of loss like
00:40:26
even though it's your decision to retire
00:40:28
that there's this um this hole in your
00:40:30
life or this gap um which could make you
00:40:32
even you more depressed and that's
00:40:34
something to deal with. But um I'm
00:40:35
pleased you're feeling the other way.
00:40:37
Yeah. And um I think the first few days
00:40:39
when I announced it was the hardest
00:40:40
part. But um when you come to reality,
00:40:43
you're like, I think I did do the right
00:40:45
decision. So why were the first few days
00:40:47
the hardest part? Because you don't
00:40:48
know. I wasn't sure what was next. I
00:40:50
didn't know how to feel. I felt
00:40:52
emotional and then you'd see something
00:40:54
on TV tributes and well you read
00:40:56
something then you like have I done the
00:40:59
right thing? But um I I deep down I
00:41:02
really think I have. Yeah. I suppose
00:41:05
it's so final. So, how how did you make
00:41:07
that announcement? So, you it all seems
00:41:08
very sudden. So, you went for you were
00:41:10
going for a run on Christmas Day, then
00:41:12
on Boxing Day, it's in the papers. Do
00:41:14
you just ring like a journalist or how
00:41:16
do you um So, my agent is um he's a
00:41:20
journalist. Um like it was it was the
00:41:24
27th when I announced it. Um cuz I rode
00:41:27
rode on Boxing Day and then I was
00:41:29
driving home and I was thinking about it
00:41:31
the whole time the whole way home and
00:41:33
then I went had a a meeting with the
00:41:35
bosses the next morning and just said
00:41:37
off I've had enough. And um we had to
00:41:40
wait and then put the announcement out
00:41:42
the next afternoon and um so my my agent
00:41:45
wrote something for me to to put on X.
00:41:49
Yeah. And once it's out there, it just
00:41:51
feels so, I suppose, final and
00:41:54
permanent. Yeah, it it was. But then
00:41:56
then the phone started ringing and um I
00:41:58
got hundreds of texts and stuff like
00:42:00
that and
00:42:02
um then you get a few interviews on the
00:42:05
radio and stuff like that. But um it was
00:42:07
it was quite emotional really. M
00:42:10
yeah I I suppose it's just um one of
00:42:13
those one of those moments you have in
00:42:15
your career when you re just realize uh
00:42:17
you what you've done and the impact
00:42:19
you've had on people. Yeah, it's um you
00:42:22
you don't realize at the time until you,
00:42:24
as I said, you you see all these
00:42:26
tributes to you on and they they do a
00:42:29
short clip on the uh the track side and
00:42:32
people talking about you and um how good
00:42:35
they thought you were and stuff like
00:42:36
that. And and like you wouldn't be human
00:42:40
human if you didn't start tearing up a
00:42:41
little bit.
00:42:43
Yeah. Now that you're no longer riding,
00:42:45
what will you what will your
00:42:46
relationship with gambling be be like?
00:42:48
Like are you do you do you feel like you
00:42:50
you're good at picking horses or knowing
00:42:52
what you know are you like I'd never go
00:42:54
near it. Um I'm I've never been a big
00:42:57
gambler. Um I don't like don't like
00:42:59
losing money too much. Um but um I I But
00:43:02
if you've got the knowledge you've got
00:43:04
like do do you feel like you could make
00:43:05
money or is it like is it really just a
00:43:07
bit of a lottery sometimes? I I think
00:43:10
some people are good at it. Um I I kind
00:43:13
of know the horses that I'm working
00:43:14
with. Um,
00:43:16
but in saying that, um, it's it's not
00:43:19
something I'd like to get into. Um, what
00:43:22
about
00:43:23
regrets? Regrets career and and
00:43:25
otherwise.
00:43:29
Um, I don't have many regrets in my
00:43:32
writing career. Maybe probably could
00:43:35
have been a bit little bit more
00:43:36
disciplined with um with my weight um
00:43:39
and would made it a lot easier. But
00:43:42
um no, I just after everything that's
00:43:45
gone on over the last six 12 to 6
00:43:47
months, I just just want to try and be a
00:43:49
better person really. Yeah, I I try and
00:43:52
do that every day. Every day just try
00:43:53
and be a little bit better than before.
00:43:55
And you know, you're always going to
00:43:56
[ __ ] up, aren't you? But that's part of
00:43:58
I suppose the human experience. Um
00:44:01
what's your what's your inner voice like
00:44:03
when you're alone? How do you talk to
00:44:04
yourself? Are you quite kind?
00:44:06
Yeah. I I Yeah. Like like you mean like
00:44:10
do I do I punish myself? Yeah. You beat
00:44:14
yourself up or you quite you generally
00:44:15
quite compassionate to yourself? Um
00:44:17
usually pretty good. I if
00:44:21
um you have your ups and downs like
00:44:23
anybody, but um I usually try and keep
00:44:26
myself pretty cool. Yeah. So when when
00:44:28
you're racing, if you have a day where
00:44:29
you know that you've you haven't done as
00:44:31
well as what you could have to the OP
00:44:33
Boston standards, um yeah, are you okay
00:44:36
with that? You just draw a line in the
00:44:38
sand and you know get on with your
00:44:40
night. Well, you do
00:44:42
with every day is going to be different,
00:44:44
isn't it? For being a jockey, you can't
00:44:46
win everything. So you got to get used
00:44:48
to to to losing.
00:44:50
And what about um vulnerability? Like
00:44:52
it's a kind of a buzz word at the
00:44:53
moment. Um, and yeah, I'm a I'm a little
00:44:56
bit older than you, but um, yeah, we
00:44:58
when we were kids, like you you you'd
00:45:00
never sort of talk about your feelings
00:45:01
or anything. It just wasn't something
00:45:02
that was done. Um, you know, it was sort
00:45:04
of the, you know, drink a cup of
00:45:06
concrete and harden up sort of, uh,
00:45:08
mentality. And we know now that, um,
00:45:09
yeah, if anything, vulnerability is a
00:45:11
strength rather than a weakness. And
00:45:12
it's good to talk about these things.
00:45:14
Now, um, we've established that you're
00:45:16
good at talking to your mates when
00:45:17
you've got like a a king's birthday
00:45:19
honor coming up. Are you good at are you
00:45:21
good at talking to your Have you got a
00:45:23
circle of friends that that you can talk
00:45:24
to about like serious stuff? Probably
00:45:27
probably only two or three. Yeah.
00:45:31
Um but I my problem is I I probably lock
00:45:35
things up and
00:45:37
uh but I don't know I bottle bottle
00:45:41
things really and then and try and
00:45:43
forget about them. But I think as as you
00:45:47
start going to the counseling and all
00:45:49
thing and they teach you ways to work
00:45:51
through that.
00:45:54
Yeah, it's hard. E, like I'm I'm um I'm
00:45:56
probably guilty of that as well. You got
00:45:58
friends and they'll say, "No, really,
00:46:00
how are you?" And I'll be like, "Yeah,
00:46:01
no, all good." It's it's hard though.
00:46:04
and you know that vulnerability is a
00:46:06
good thing and you know that it's gonna
00:46:07
make you feel better to talk about this
00:46:08
stuff, but it's just it's just hard to
00:46:10
rip that band-aid off and it's just some
00:46:12
you're just not brought up like that. I
00:46:14
wasn't anyway. So, yeah. Yeah. But um
00:46:16
Oh, it's good that you've got an inner
00:46:18
circle that you can talk to with this
00:46:19
stuff. Yeah, I've got a few um close
00:46:21
mates and that um jockeyies and ex
00:46:23
jockeyies as well and and I've lucky
00:46:25
I've got my godfather Steven Orchard
00:46:28
just lives around the corner and can
00:46:30
always go to him for a chat. Yeah. What
00:46:32
would you say your best and worst habits
00:46:33
are?
00:46:38
probably worst habits probably having a
00:46:40
too many beers, but
00:46:42
um my my best habits
00:46:45
um I I don't know. I always try and be
00:46:47
happy and be kind to people.
00:46:50
They are great habits. It's really cool.
00:46:53
Um what about your your recent ex-wife?
00:46:55
What would you say your best and worst
00:46:56
habits are? Oh god.
00:46:59
Okay, let's Yeah, we'll leave that one.
00:47:02
Um yeah, looking back on your career,
00:47:03
what do you what do you think you're
00:47:04
most proud of? I I think you're proud of
00:47:07
um being in the Hall of Fame and um
00:47:10
getting a King's Honor and and being one
00:47:13
of the best jockeyies New Zealand's ever
00:47:15
had really. Um had so much success and
00:47:18
at the highest level, which is um that's
00:47:20
what I'm proud of.
00:47:23
Yeah. Are you you worried now that
00:47:24
whatever the next chapter of your life
00:47:26
brings, it won't bring you the same sort
00:47:27
of um like adrenaline or the same sort
00:47:31
of you know highs that you've
00:47:32
experienced? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, you
00:47:35
it's never going to have those highs
00:47:36
ever again. So, um
00:47:38
but if if I can get into something into
00:47:42
horse racing like that competitive edge
00:47:45
without being a jockey, um I definitely
00:47:48
look at it like as in training or
00:47:50
something like that. Yeah. What do you
00:47:51
think the future will bring? Have you
00:47:52
got any sort of idea? You must be just
00:47:53
at that stage now. Um this is what I I'm
00:47:56
just projecting here. This is what I was
00:47:58
like when I was you left radio. It was
00:47:59
like you bounce around a bunch of ideas.
00:48:01
Um and some of them you think are really
00:48:03
good and then you just follow down a
00:48:05
different path. But yeah, what what are
00:48:07
the sort of ideas that you're bouncing
00:48:08
around at the moment? Um I'm going to
00:48:10
have a meeting with um my big boss on
00:48:12
Monday um and to look talk about the
00:48:16
future and um he's been a great mentor
00:48:18
to me since I was 14.
00:48:20
So, we have have have a chat and see
00:48:23
where the next step is. But, um, in all
00:48:25
honestly, I had honestly had no idea.
00:48:28
Um, just just waiting for the dust to
00:48:31
settle a little bit and something will
00:48:32
pop up. What have you been eating in the
00:48:34
last couple of weeks? Pretty much
00:48:36
anything I could.
00:48:39
No, but in terms of like like bad [ __ ]
00:48:40
that you've um you deprived yourself
00:48:42
from like largely over the last 30 odd
00:48:45
years, like what have you just been
00:48:47
leaning into the last couple of weeks?
00:48:48
Oh, it's just just having a meal every
00:48:52
night, which is which is the best thing.
00:48:53
Yeah. Um and and have lunch or something
00:48:57
like that without feeling guilty. So,
00:48:59
just just living normal really. Yeah. Is
00:49:02
it like a constant state of feeling
00:49:04
guilty or feeling, you know, just
00:49:06
self-conscious and feeling like you're
00:49:07
not doing enough in terms of your
00:49:08
weight? Well, you always worried about
00:49:10
whatever you eat, you've always got to
00:49:12
take that back off um within a day or
00:49:15
two. So, and that's why you got to
00:49:16
really keep an eye on what what what you
00:49:18
take in cuz you know you have to sweat
00:49:21
that all out.
00:49:24
It's not a career for the faint, is it?
00:49:26
No, you got to be pretty strong minded.
00:49:29
And um it that's that's pretty much what
00:49:32
ended my career after 30 years. I just
00:49:33
got sick of it.
00:49:36
I can sort of understand that now. Like
00:49:38
when I read the announcement just after
00:49:40
Christmas, I it like it just didn't make
00:49:42
sense to me. Like, you know, here you
00:49:43
are. you're still quite young on the big
00:49:45
scheme of things. You could keep riding
00:49:46
for many more years if you wanted to.
00:49:48
Um, sitting down with you today, like
00:49:50
hearing about the weight stuff, it makes
00:49:51
perfect sense. What would what would you
00:49:54
say say like a young kid came to you um
00:49:57
and said they wanted to be a jockey?
00:49:59
Like could you look them in the eye in
00:50:02
good faith and say, "Yeah, do it. It's
00:50:03
great."
00:50:05
I mean, it's been really good for you,
00:50:06
right? Yeah. If if you're small enough,
00:50:08
it's it's it's a perfect job if if you
00:50:11
have a lot of success at it. Um but you
00:50:13
just got to be disciplined and um if
00:50:16
you're a little bit bigger naturally
00:50:18
you're going to grow anyway because you
00:50:19
start when you're so young when you hit
00:50:20
your 20s you start filling out a little
00:50:22
bit. So
00:50:24
um it it's given me a lot of pleasure
00:50:27
over the years and um it's been really
00:50:29
good to me the game. In terms of legacy,
00:50:32
how how would you like to be remembered
00:50:34
in horse racing circles?
00:50:36
um like to be remembered as
00:50:38
um one of the legends of New Zealand
00:50:41
racing. Really
00:50:43
better than Lanc Sullivan. More group
00:50:45
ones anyway.
00:50:47
Way more. Like so many 31 more. [ __ ] He
00:50:50
must be pissed about that. But he's he,
00:50:53
you know, he's got way more commercial
00:50:54
properties than you. So there's that.
00:50:56
He's got a nice big farm as well. Nice
00:50:58
big farm. Hey um OP, this has been great
00:51:00
today, mate. Thank you so much for
00:51:02
coming on the podcast. Um yeah. Yeah.
00:51:05
you still feeling nervous or are you
00:51:06
quite relaxed? I'm still I'm still
00:51:08
sweating, but um no, it's just something
00:51:11
I'm just not used to. But I'm I'm
00:51:13
actually glad I um came in. Well, I'm
00:51:16
glad you did, too. Absolute New Zealand
00:51:18
of the New Zealand, absolute legend of
00:51:20
the New Zealand horse racing industry,
00:51:22
Hall of Famer, King's Birthday Honors,
00:51:24
uh 99 Group One wins, and now a guest on
00:51:28
the Domy podcast. Now, thanks for having
00:51:30
me. Did you tell any of your mates you
00:51:32
were coming on this today, or you keep
00:51:33
this a quiet? No, I told I told a few of
00:51:36
the boys. Hey, you're a legend, mate.
00:51:37
Thank you so much for your time. Thanks
00:51:39
for having me. Cheers.
