00:00:00
I was running and then realizing, [ __ ]
00:00:02
I can't run away from this.
00:00:03
>> Who is Helen Baron?
00:00:04
>> I am a trail runner. I'm a mom. I'm a
00:00:08
physio. I'm just a friendly human.
00:00:10
>> 2023, that's how it was for you. Life
00:00:12
hanging in the balance. Just an absolute
00:00:14
cluster [ __ ]
00:00:14
>> Everyone's juggling lots of balls and
00:00:16
it's okay to drop some. Just don't drop
00:00:17
the glass ones. He did say to me, "This
00:00:19
will be the hardest two weeks of your
00:00:20
life." My youngest is like the an
00:00:22
immediate emotional response. I don't
00:00:24
want you to die. And a big hug. Give my
00:00:25
husband a cuddle and say I love you. No
00:00:27
wonder whether you're going to actually
00:00:28
be able to say those words again.
00:00:30
>> I will get through this thing and I may
00:00:32
not sound like me, but I will be me. Did
00:00:34
you write any like in case I don't make
00:00:35
it?
00:00:36
>> I've got a few recordings.
00:00:37
>> It's a love note of goodbye.
00:00:38
>> There's an awful lot of strength that we
00:00:40
have in ourselves that we don't
00:00:42
necessarily realize until you have to
00:00:44
use it.
00:00:44
>> Are you proud of yourself?
00:00:45
>> Yeah, I think so.
00:00:49
>> Hela Baron, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:51
>> Thank you, Dom. Thanks for having me.
00:00:53
>> Really good to have you here. First of
00:00:54
all, who is Hela Baron? Ah, who am I? I
00:00:58
um wow. I am a trail runner. I'm um I'm
00:01:04
a mom. I'm a physio. I'm a wife. I'm
00:01:08
just a friendly human. Yeah. Just uh a
00:01:12
bit of everything. Lots of hats all in
00:01:14
one.
00:01:14
>> It's a difficult question to answer,
00:01:16
isn't it? Cuz it's like where do you
00:01:17
where do you begin? What do you
00:01:18
prioritize? Yeah. So So you're married.
00:01:20
You've got how many kids?
00:01:21
>> Two boys.
00:01:22
>> How old are your boys?
00:01:23
>> 16 and 17.
00:01:24
>> Okay. And you do a lot of running like
00:01:26
like mileers which is um 160 km 100
00:01:30
miles.
00:01:30
>> Yes. Yeah. Well, I I did pre uh
00:01:34
precancer. Um but uh yeah, I I was
00:01:37
definitely into the trail ultras
00:01:43
like like the 80 to 100 ones. Good
00:01:45
challenge without absolutely cooking
00:01:47
yourself on a mileer.
00:01:48
>> Yeah. 160ks. That's where like sleep
00:01:51
deprivation comes into it. You're
00:01:52
running day, you're running night.
00:01:54
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:01:55
>> Yeah, that's definitely part of that.
00:01:56
>> Um,
00:01:58
yeah. So, the Yeah. What sort of running
00:02:00
have you done? 2023. By the way, we're
00:02:02
going to go through this in sort of
00:02:03
chronological order, but 2023 is what
00:02:05
it's quite funny, isn't it? I was
00:02:06
thinking about this when I was prepping
00:02:07
this interview because
00:02:08
>> at the start of the start of every year,
00:02:10
everyone has sort of expectations for
00:02:11
the year and all those expectations
00:02:15
at the beginning of a new year for
00:02:16
anyone for the year to be better than
00:02:18
what the previous one was. Yeah, no
00:02:20
one's ever like, "Well, life's going to
00:02:21
throw me a curveball and this year this
00:02:24
year,
00:02:24
>> this year's going to be a complete
00:02:25
writeoff." But essentially for 2023,
00:02:28
that's how it was for you. Life life
00:02:29
hanging in the balance.
00:02:31
>> Um, just an absolute cluster [ __ ] I
00:02:33
think it's probably fair to say.
00:02:34
>> Probably an excellent summary. Yeah,
00:02:36
like I had started.
00:02:38
>> So, in October 22, I started a new role
00:02:41
back with High Performance Sport. Like,
00:02:43
my boys were a little bit older and I
00:02:44
was like, "Okay, I'm kind of ready to
00:02:45
travel and do things again." And so I
00:02:47
work full-time as one of the physios
00:02:49
with snow sports. So that had started.
00:02:51
We were quite settled in Wanuker and um
00:02:54
and the boys were good and I was really
00:02:56
good and things were great and I trained
00:02:58
for my first mileer and
00:03:01
>> um yeah took that off and was feeling
00:03:02
really good. Had a couple of things
00:03:04
lined up racing wise overseas. Was
00:03:06
heading to Aussie and yeah then it all
00:03:09
went pretty sideways.
00:03:12
>> Yeah. Yes. So the event you're talking
00:03:12
about, that's the Tatawa Milo 100 miles
00:03:15
and you finished fifth. Yes.
00:03:16
>> Um so you're no slouch.
00:03:18
>> It was a good year.
00:03:19
>> Finishing is one thing. Getting a top
00:03:21
five finish. Amazing. Um
00:03:23
>> yeah, we're going right back. First of
00:03:26
all, so um from Hamilton.
00:03:28
>> Yes.
00:03:28
>> And a head girl at Hillrest High School.
00:03:32
>> Yes, I was.
00:03:33
>> Which I think it sort of um from an
00:03:35
early age it sort of paints a picture of
00:03:37
the sort of person you are, you know.
00:03:38
>> Yeah.
00:03:39
>> Obviously driven, focused.
00:03:41
>> Yeah. just that that high performance
00:03:43
sort of mentality mindset.
00:03:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that was
00:03:46
probably um part of my upbr up
00:03:49
upbringing and just the you know we got
00:03:51
involved in everything sport and music
00:03:53
and school and just get in and get
00:03:56
amongst everything like I played hockey
00:03:58
right through school and um as well and
00:04:01
yeah and a little bit of running in
00:04:02
there just more for enjoyment but um
00:04:05
yeah it was uh it started back in
00:04:07
Hamilton Hilus High
00:04:09
>> and um what came first the running or
00:04:11
the physio? Uh
00:04:15
well running kind of went alongside
00:04:17
things. Physio um physio became my
00:04:20
focus. Um hockey was probably the biggie
00:04:23
in there. Uh so when I finished um
00:04:26
school and headed to uni in Deneden and
00:04:29
I was playing um sort of rep level there
00:04:31
with a targetago and then moved to
00:04:32
Canterbury and yeah hockey was big uh
00:04:35
and running came sort of as part of
00:04:37
that. our our Canary team. We'd go in
00:04:39
the offseason, get everyone together and
00:04:41
go run through Goats Pass and like that
00:04:44
was probably my first introduction.
00:04:45
Goats Pass and Lunch Peak and we'd do
00:04:47
that to um
00:04:49
>> yeah to I guess get around together and
00:04:50
prep for the next season. Make sure
00:04:52
everyone is doing some training through
00:04:53
the summer.
00:04:54
>> Ghost Pass, that's the big running leg
00:04:57
on the coast to coast. It's epic.
00:04:59
>> Not really not even a run, is it? You're
00:05:00
scrambling and river crossings and
00:05:03
>> it's an activity that for a lot of it
00:05:05
requires like your hands and your feet.
00:05:06
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. A bit of
00:05:08
scrambling and then that last sort of 5
00:05:09
10k out along the river beds. Pretty
00:05:11
grunty.
00:05:12
>> Yeah. Which goes on forever.
00:05:15
>> When or where did the love of type two
00:05:16
fun come from?
00:05:19
>> I think it's always been there to be
00:05:20
fair. Is it?
00:05:22
>> Yeah. Well, it's like when you're doing
00:05:23
your your fitness stuff for like for the
00:05:25
even the more explosive sports and
00:05:27
you're doing the high intensity reps
00:05:29
which you just have to and you feel
00:05:30
revoling at the time, but later it feels
00:05:33
really good.
00:05:35
So, uh, so I think it's always been
00:05:36
there in some form. It's just maybe as I
00:05:38
got older, things got slower, more, you
00:05:41
know, like get into H. I'm just going to
00:05:43
go for longer. It doesn't have to be
00:05:44
that intensity. I'll just put myself in
00:05:46
the hole in a different way.
00:05:49
>> I I do you think you're sort of born
00:05:50
that way or do you think someone can
00:05:52
teach themselves?
00:05:53
>> I mean, I think you can probably same as
00:05:55
anything isn't behavior, you can maybe
00:05:58
adjust them, but there's got to be a
00:05:59
little something that pushes you in that
00:06:01
direction in the
00:06:02
>> in the first place. Yeah. And um what's
00:06:05
your job with um high performance in New
00:06:07
Zealand? Is that a physio thing? Like
00:06:08
you're you're in Oakuckland at the
00:06:10
moment and you're able to join me on the
00:06:11
podcast because you're here in your
00:06:12
capacity as physio for parolympics. You
00:06:15
said
00:06:16
>> yes. Yeah. So I am employed by high
00:06:18
performance sport New Zealand. I'm
00:06:20
full-time as a as a performance
00:06:21
physiootherapist. So um there's two of
00:06:24
us full-time and then we have some other
00:06:26
crew help part-time because we do so
00:06:28
much travel. Um, so I am uh treating in
00:06:31
the clinic, but that's probably not the
00:06:33
biggest part of what we do. We're on
00:06:35
snow with the team. We're in the gym.
00:06:36
We're sort of working on tweaking
00:06:39
strength and movement and, you know,
00:06:40
muscle balance for performance as much
00:06:42
as the um injury side of things. We're
00:06:44
trying to mitigate injury and then, you
00:06:47
know, obviously helping put people back
00:06:48
together when things do go a bit
00:06:50
p-shaped, but it's a a real holistic
00:06:52
role in that sense. Um, so I work across
00:06:56
the park and pipe. So that's um big air
00:06:59
slope sle halfpipe uh and our parolympic
00:07:02
team. So sit ski and standing um
00:07:05
adaptive skiing athletes. Yeah. So
00:07:07
>> and and you've done the the Olympics
00:07:09
before.
00:07:10
>> Yes. So that was um previously I was
00:07:13
with high performance sport with cycling
00:07:15
New Zealand and I worked for them across
00:07:17
the Rio Olympic cycle uh and then I was
00:07:20
in the core health team at the Rio
00:07:22
Olympics and the Tokyo 2020 or 2021
00:07:24
Olympics and then uh the Birmingham
00:07:27
Commonwealth Games um yeah more um with
00:07:30
them in the so we'd be in the central
00:07:33
hub in the village they call it the core
00:07:34
health team. So we would often look
00:07:35
after the athletes who um the biggest
00:07:38
sports would take their own physios and
00:07:40
uh we'd be looking after some of the
00:07:42
smaller sports and travel for to their
00:07:44
events and look after them with
00:07:46
>> like a duty physio.
00:07:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um and I mean
00:07:51
it's great cuz when you're working fully
00:07:52
immersed in a sport as I was with
00:07:54
cycling and I am now with snow sports
00:07:56
those multi-event ones are like they're
00:07:58
really cool. I was the grappling physio
00:08:00
at the comealth games which was awesome.
00:08:01
judo and wrestling and that was and
00:08:03
boxing. It was Yeah, it was good fun.
00:08:06
>> So, so you've um you've you've rubbed
00:08:07
shoulders and you worked with a lot of
00:08:09
um like really, you know, top of the
00:08:10
game, high performance people. What are
00:08:12
there some lessons that you've got from
00:08:14
then that you've been able to use for
00:08:15
your own sort of running even though
00:08:17
it's at a way smaller scale?
00:08:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all of those um
00:08:21
those things I think everyone we sort of
00:08:23
learn off each other, don't we? like
00:08:24
it's the uh um you've got to prioritize
00:08:27
things and what's important at a
00:08:29
particular time and um figuring out you
00:08:32
know total life load is pretty important
00:08:35
and that's um that can be really hard
00:08:36
like for the athletes when there's um
00:08:38
there's so many commitments um and you
00:08:41
know our crew now they do so much travel
00:08:43
and a lot of things with around
00:08:45
sponsorship and there's just a lot of um
00:08:47
there's a lot of noise and so I think
00:08:50
probably one of the things um that they
00:08:52
teach me and that I help them is like
00:08:55
how we filter out the noise and what put
00:08:58
the important stuff important. Um we
00:09:00
talked yeah we talked a bit about you
00:09:02
know everyone's juggling lots of balls
00:09:04
um and it's okay to drop some just don't
00:09:06
drop the glass ones you know and things
00:09:07
like your health you know those are
00:09:09
those are really important and sometimes
00:09:10
you can put things down for a little bit
00:09:12
of time you'll be able to pick them back
00:09:13
up but actually um yeah just don't drop
00:09:16
the glass ones family health.
00:09:18
>> Oh I love that I love that analogy. I've
00:09:19
never heard that one before. Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:21
relationships, anything that's super
00:09:23
important to you.
00:09:23
>> Yeah, those things. Yeah. Don't don't
00:09:25
Yeah. Don't mess with those ones. They
00:09:26
they have to stay at the center cuz
00:09:28
actually for you know that's what makes
00:09:30
us us as humans and then the sport sort
00:09:33
of fits around around that really.
00:09:35
>> Yeah.
00:09:36
>> Yeah.
00:09:36
>> Well, you talk about how busy these
00:09:37
people are but um then there's there's
00:09:39
you. So you're training for this um 100
00:09:42
100 mile race at the beginning of 2023.
00:09:44
Meanwhile, you're you know you're
00:09:45
married and you've got a couple of I
00:09:47
suppose like young teenage boys at that
00:09:49
stage.
00:09:49
>> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Life life is busy. Life
00:09:52
is uh is
00:09:54
>> pretty busy all the time. Um
00:09:56
>> how do you how do you how do you get
00:09:57
that? Is it just getting up earlier in
00:09:58
the morning or doing in the evening?
00:10:00
>> Yeah. Well, both. Yeah. Like if um for
00:10:03
me, I really wanted to make sure that I
00:10:06
was prioritizing time with my family.
00:10:09
And I love my running and I love my
00:10:11
work, but the glass ball for me is um my
00:10:14
family. And so, um, I would, yeah, I'd
00:10:17
get up early and I mean, it's easier in
00:10:19
place like Monica because in the summer,
00:10:20
the sun comes up at like 4:00 and it
00:10:22
doesn't go down till 11 at night. So,
00:10:24
you can do things at opposite ends of
00:10:25
the day, go for a big run and still be
00:10:27
home in time for breakfast with the fam.
00:10:29
>> Yeah. So, it was sort of fitting it
00:10:31
around there. And I did find that the
00:10:33
fitter I was probably the less sleep
00:10:35
that I felt that I needed. And it was
00:10:38
good. I had the energy to kind of get
00:10:39
through the day and just prioritize. Um,
00:10:41
yeah, that family stuff as well.
00:10:44
It's funny how that works. E like the
00:10:45
more you exercise, you're a lot more
00:10:47
tired, you actually have more energy.
00:10:48
>> Yeah, exactly.
00:10:49
>> But I'm super inspired by I think um
00:10:51
mostly amateur athletes. Like you go to
00:10:53
like an iron man event or something in
00:10:55
Topo and you see people that have got
00:10:57
like not you know full-time jobs and
00:10:59
families and somehow they've managed to
00:11:00
train for this.
00:11:01
>> Yeah, it's incredible. I mean and that
00:11:04
like the multisport events when you're
00:11:07
it's the number of disciplines. I mean,
00:11:10
for me, I love trail running and living
00:11:12
in Monaco, there's people like, "Oh,
00:11:14
you're going to get it. You're going to
00:11:15
get into multisport." And I thought,
00:11:16
"Oh, no." Like, "Running's hard.
00:11:18
Running's hard enough to fit in." I like
00:11:20
had a bike and a you know, kayak or
00:11:22
something. It's impressive. But yeah,
00:11:24
fitting all of that stuff in is really
00:11:26
hard. And there'll be times if you are
00:11:28
really specifically training for
00:11:29
something even as a as an amateur, let
00:11:32
alone the elite crew is um is you're
00:11:35
going to have really tired weeks just
00:11:37
like and kind of knowing how
00:11:40
>> or understanding how you're going to
00:11:41
respond so that you're not putting that
00:11:43
on anyone else. That's that's a biggie
00:11:45
for me.
00:11:46
>> So the 2023 Tatawa, which we talked
00:11:49
about at the beginning of the podcast,
00:11:50
100 mile race, which is 160 km. Um and
00:11:53
you finished fifth.
00:11:54
>> Yes. What what did that race mean to you
00:11:56
personally?
00:11:58
>> Um that was such an incredible day. Um
00:12:02
I'd I'd finally I mean I'd done training
00:12:05
for for events before, but mostly again
00:12:08
relating to that sort of life balance.
00:12:09
It would be like I train, I run how I
00:12:11
like, I run how I like and oh I've
00:12:13
signed up to this event, so maybe four
00:12:14
weeks out I should tailor my tail my
00:12:16
program a little bit. Um and the year
00:12:19
before um I yeah I made the commitment
00:12:24
to sign up to this and I was like okay
00:12:25
well you're doing it you probably should
00:12:27
actually uh put a bit more structure 100
00:12:30
miles not your 50k is you do need a
00:12:32
little bit of a plan and so I figured
00:12:34
out again so right through that somehow
00:12:36
I was going to make that work around
00:12:38
work and family and so being able to put
00:12:41
that in place and then get out there on
00:12:43
the day and that day just flowed. was so
00:12:46
cool and my family were there as my
00:12:48
support crew and I felt good. I mean,
00:12:50
even in those really brutal moments
00:12:52
where it's a bit of a hot day or I've
00:12:54
been running for god knows how many
00:12:56
hours. Um, and in deep in the pain cave,
00:12:59
it just was still I think maybe 90% of
00:13:02
that day I just grinned like it was just
00:13:04
a fun fun day. So so satisfying to have
00:13:08
put a plan in place and and to have come
00:13:11
off and I was so surprised to be fair
00:13:13
like the the fifth place was just well
00:13:16
how did where did that come from? And I
00:13:18
you know the the course had changed that
00:13:20
year. It was the year of the big floods
00:13:21
um up north and the um the beginning uh
00:13:26
there was some slips so they had to
00:13:27
change that and it ended up being a
00:13:28
couple of loops. So, I saw my support
00:13:30
crew quite a bit that day, which was
00:13:32
wicked. But also, all of the hilly bits
00:13:34
were at the start, which is what I love.
00:13:36
I'm from Monica, and that's the bit I
00:13:37
love. So, I just was like, "Oh, well,
00:13:39
I'll go help leather on those bits and
00:13:42
see how I feel and then just make my way
00:13:44
through the rest of the day." And so,
00:13:45
that was cool. It was just a cool cool
00:13:47
day. Just Yeah. Happy days.
00:13:49
>> It's such um an unfathom fathomably long
00:13:52
run. It's like you did in like 20 hours
00:13:54
or something. So, you say it a great
00:13:56
day, but it was a great day and night.
00:13:57
It was
00:13:58
>> Yeah. Yes. Yes, there was a full day.
00:14:01
You know, you look at the straa
00:14:04
in your steps for the day and it's like,
00:14:06
yeah, 100,000 for it was ridiculous. But
00:14:10
anyway, what what drives someone, male
00:14:14
or female, to to do do a 100 mile event?
00:14:17
>> Really nice.
00:14:19
>> We're absolutely mental. Um, no, I think
00:14:22
it's that um there's a little bit of
00:14:24
just wanting to see how far you can push
00:14:26
yourself. And I really love just being
00:14:29
out on the trails like the just the
00:14:31
freedom of um being out and moving in
00:14:34
nature and so I just like to do it for a
00:14:37
very long time as it turns out. But
00:14:39
yeah, just like oh I've done that and I
00:14:41
yeah I reckon I could see how that goes.
00:14:43
I reckon I remember my first ultra was a
00:14:45
50k and a friend of mine had convinced
00:14:47
me to sign up for that. Thanks Kathy. Uh
00:14:50
and then she had done the old ghost
00:14:52
which was 85 and I just remember
00:14:53
thinking oh my god. Uh and then after I
00:14:56
done the 50, oh yeah, I could do that.
00:14:58
And then that led to 100k and then oh
00:15:01
maybe and who knows if I if I the wheels
00:15:04
hadn't fallen off on my health where the
00:15:05
160k would have left uh led to. But um
00:15:08
yeah, don't know. It's like it's just
00:15:10
tempting to see how far you can push.
00:15:13
But the um though I mean those big ones
00:15:15
take a bit out of you after. That's the
00:15:17
recovery after as well physically. Yeah.
00:15:19
Physically. Yeah. And you're just tired
00:15:21
because you you've pushed your system to
00:15:23
the limit. So choosing when to fit those
00:15:26
in and how many of those you might be
00:15:28
able to do if you're also trying to
00:15:30
logistically work with family and work
00:15:32
is yeah that's sensible to plan ahead.
00:15:37
>> So so you finished that event um in
00:15:39
fifth place. [ __ ] you must have been
00:15:40
buzzing after that. How did you how did
00:15:42
you sort of see in the the days or weeks
00:15:44
after that? How did you see the rest of
00:15:45
2023 playing out?
00:15:47
>> Yeah. Well it was um then it was like
00:15:48
okay I've that was my big that was my
00:15:51
big running goal for Yep. got myself
00:15:53
through a mileer running wise. I wanted
00:15:56
to do um ultra trail Australia in the
00:15:58
May and I signed up to do that. Had some
00:16:01
um things in place for that. So that was
00:16:03
my running goal. But as said I'd just
00:16:06
started with um snow sports and I so
00:16:09
finished the race on the well I want to
00:16:11
say Saturday but Sunday morning I should
00:16:13
know. Um I was due to fly home that
00:16:17
afternoon um repack my bags and then
00:16:20
head for Georgia, Bakyani, Georgia with
00:16:23
our snow sports team for the world
00:16:24
champs. So that was the plan.
00:16:26
>> There was a few delays thanks to the the
00:16:29
weather up there. So I had like a day at
00:16:30
home and then head off and it was just
00:16:32
kick into the next part of my work stuff
00:16:35
really. I um I wanted to get my
00:16:38
specialization um registration for phys
00:16:41
with the physiootherapy board. So that
00:16:43
was in there and just really get stuck
00:16:45
into my work. So there was exciting
00:16:47
things coming actually in 2023 was the
00:16:49
plan.
00:16:50
>> So um yeah, it's only a couple of weeks
00:16:52
after that event and you're overseas
00:16:54
with um the New Zealand ski team. And is
00:16:57
that when you discover like a lump on
00:16:59
your tongue?
00:17:00
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I was um I've had I'd
00:17:02
had before just a little um I've got
00:17:05
sharp had a sharp tooth back of my
00:17:06
mouth. Every so often I'd get a like my
00:17:08
tongue would drop on it, get a we bit
00:17:10
raw and let it heal for a couple of days
00:17:12
and it would be fine. And they'd um
00:17:14
because it created a little bit of
00:17:16
scarring um they'd biopsied that before
00:17:18
and everything's fine, don't worry, but
00:17:20
tongues are tongues are a weird they
00:17:23
should heal and so if if that ever
00:17:25
happens again um let me know uh and get
00:17:28
it checked out quickly. And so I had
00:17:31
this sore tongue and I looked like it's
00:17:33
a bit red but we'll see. Changed my food
00:17:34
for a few days. Um
00:17:36
>> so you weren't in any pain or anything.
00:17:37
>> It was just stingy. It was um just like
00:17:39
you know like if you've got a little
00:17:40
ultra you burnt your tongue that's what
00:17:42
it felt like and it was looked like the
00:17:43
tiny little like tip of your fingernail
00:17:46
kind of size this this red patch. So I
00:17:48
would check that out in another couple
00:17:49
of days and I did and it was still sore
00:17:53
like hadn't changed at all. Oh that's
00:17:55
odd. Um yeah and then it sort of
00:17:58
progressed from there like uh we moved
00:18:00
on I moved on from there to um Italy
00:18:03
with the parah team. So I was there with
00:18:05
the park and pipe team at um at the
00:18:07
world champs. Moved on to par and like
00:18:08
oh it's still sore and I think that's
00:18:10
bigger um and that is not good. I know
00:18:14
enough about the human body um that
00:18:17
things getting bigger in the mouth is
00:18:19
that's yeah it's not a good time. It's
00:18:21
not. So I yeah made some appointments
00:18:24
for when I got home but I stayed for
00:18:27
those last few weeks of the tour and saw
00:18:29
my GP as soon as I got home and yeah the
00:18:32
wheels were in motion then for
00:18:34
>> yeah the next steps in terms of
00:18:36
diagnosis and treatment. Yeah.
00:18:38
>> So you you were feeling okay though. You
00:18:40
>> I felt Yeah. I mean apart from having a
00:18:42
sore tongue and being a bit tired from
00:18:44
from the miler and having terrible toes
00:18:47
at that point as any ultra runner or
00:18:48
like how many toenails can you lose? But
00:18:51
um that was the sorest part. My my feet
00:18:54
from the from the run. But I felt
00:18:56
healthy like there's no
00:18:58
>> there was no sign that there was
00:18:59
something else going on really. And even
00:19:02
>> yeah right through until I had the
00:19:04
treatment for the cancer. Um I felt
00:19:08
good. Yeah. Which is now that's hard to
00:19:12
not sort of second guess how your health
00:19:15
is when you never actually felt unwell.
00:19:17
So yeah, now on the other side there's a
00:19:19
there's a fear.
00:19:20
>> Well, that's the thing like like
00:19:22
everyone knows all too well the
00:19:23
importance of early detection with these
00:19:25
things. Um, it's hard to see how you
00:19:27
could have been any earlier than what
00:19:28
you were.
00:19:28
>> And for me, I uh I consider myself very
00:19:33
very lucky. One that I kind of know I
00:19:36
know my body and how I sort of heal and
00:19:39
uh I know the human body thanks to my
00:19:41
work and I knew that that was wrong, but
00:19:46
I could also see the lump and I could I
00:19:48
like that doesn't look normal. That's
00:19:50
not normal. Um and I should do something
00:19:52
about it. So there's some people with
00:19:54
oral cancers and tongue cancers are more
00:19:56
in the back of their throat and they
00:19:57
just have a tickly throat or a sore
00:19:59
throat and you don't know that it's
00:20:01
something else at that time. So I mean
00:20:04
definitely if you see something in your
00:20:05
mouth uh you should get it checked out.
00:20:08
Um and those coughs and colds and um
00:20:10
coughs that linger that just aren't
00:20:12
getting any better. You know, get things
00:20:14
checked out where one of um one of my
00:20:16
cancer camp friends from Daffodil House
00:20:18
in Deneden and he'd had a a sore throat
00:20:21
for the better part of sort of seven
00:20:23
eight months before found out that it
00:20:25
was cancer and so his was he had lymph
00:20:27
involvement when um so they spread
00:20:29
mouths big blood supply easy way out
00:20:32
around the body. So oral cancers are
00:20:34
aggressive and they spread.
00:20:36
>> Yeah. So I was lucky um in that sense
00:20:39
and got onto it quickly and once uh we
00:20:41
had that diagnosis the wheels moved
00:20:43
pretty quickly. Um
00:20:46
>> what's um yeah take us back to that
00:20:48
moment the diagnosis.
00:20:51
>> Are you fearing the worst? Had you been
00:20:52
on your phone googling?
00:20:53
>> Uh yeah I'm a researcher
00:20:56
>> or phone research comes back as cancer
00:20:58
though doesn't it?
00:20:59
>> I know Dr. Google is brutal. But um
00:21:03
>> were you fearing the worst or were you
00:21:05
>> Yeah, I I I hadn't really shared it with
00:21:08
anybody else. Like uh I didn't want I'm
00:21:11
also a worrier and I care very deeply
00:21:14
about what other people feel and fear
00:21:16
and I didn't want to worry my family
00:21:20
before I had the diagnosis. So we I when
00:21:23
I got back uh I went to my GP and she
00:21:27
and I were both like, "Wow, I mean
00:21:29
you're healthy and everything else is
00:21:30
good, but it's weird. it's just wrong
00:21:32
that that's there. So, let's do this.
00:21:33
Let's get that in play. And then so we
00:21:35
went I went to Denine and she sent a
00:21:37
swab and um photo off to the Denine crew
00:21:40
and they um
00:21:42
yeah they got me called me down um once
00:21:45
they got that referral that took maybe a
00:21:46
week 10 days and they're like we'd like
00:21:48
to we'd like to see you tomorrow. Can
00:21:50
you come to Deneden tomorrow? Uh and
00:21:52
took that biopsy and I knew I I knew
00:21:56
what that result was going to be. Um,
00:21:59
yeah, it just was it didn't sit right
00:22:01
with me what that was looking like, but
00:22:02
I hadn't necessarily said that to anyone
00:22:05
else. I'd started to try and prep my
00:22:08
husband um and my boys like once I had
00:22:11
they came down to Denine and we stayed
00:22:12
with my in-laws down in Beluth for that
00:22:15
weekend um and it's like well I'm having
00:22:17
this biopsy because there's a
00:22:19
possibility that it is this. Um, so
00:22:22
yeah, I knew um and then because
00:22:26
>> even even though even even though you
00:22:27
know though there's there's still a
00:22:29
little bit of a slither that hopes
00:22:30
you're wrong, right?
00:22:31
>> Maybe I'm wrong.
00:22:32
>> You're going with your gut. But
00:22:33
>> yeah, I was like it's just oh there's
00:22:34
just some Yeah. It just doesn't feel
00:22:37
right. And then I mean it's 3 and 1 half
00:22:39
hours from Monica to Deneden. So when he
00:22:42
when he took the biopsy he was like do
00:22:44
you want to come back and get the
00:22:45
results in person or are you comfortable
00:22:48
getting these results? Um, and obviously
00:22:50
if I call you, there's no guarantee
00:22:52
there's someone with you when that
00:22:53
happens. Um, and I I want I want the
00:22:57
results as soon as you have them. Um,
00:22:59
but then you obviously, as you say,
00:23:01
start googling what treatment for this
00:23:03
what it is. And it's um it's pretty
00:23:06
confronting really. The I mean the first
00:23:08
the first port of call for any for any
00:23:11
oral cancer is to remove it. So that's
00:23:14
that's your tongue. So when he rang me
00:23:17
to say you have um we've got
00:23:20
confirmation that it's squamous cell
00:23:22
carcinoma so you have um an aggressive
00:23:24
cancer of your tongue um I was googling
00:23:27
glossctomy I literally had that screen
00:23:29
open in front of me and so glossctomy is
00:23:31
the removal of part of your tongue so
00:23:33
partial hemi full glossctomy like a
00:23:36
little bit half your tongue whole tongue
00:23:38
um and I was googling them when he rang
00:23:40
so I yeah I had a
00:23:42
>> I had an inkling Um so that was pretty
00:23:46
that was pretty um
00:23:49
an intense time because then what they
00:23:52
do is we need to plan your treatment and
00:23:53
we're hopeful that uh if this it's small
00:23:57
enough that we will be able so they have
00:23:59
to take the tumor and then like a
00:24:01
centimeter of healthy margin around it.
00:24:03
So if it's infiltrated into anything
00:24:05
else they cut out the healthy stuff too.
00:24:07
We think we'll be able to do it just
00:24:08
with that because of where it is in the
00:24:10
tongue and what it looks like. Um but we
00:24:12
need to make sure it hasn't gone
00:24:13
anywhere else. So then got referred for
00:24:15
scans. So common places for oral cancers
00:24:18
are lymph nodes and lung, liver. So they
00:24:21
did a scan of the rest of me and knowing
00:24:24
and then takes time for those results to
00:24:26
come back. So knowing I had cancer but
00:24:28
not knowing how far it had spread um or
00:24:31
if it had spread was that was a brutal
00:24:34
couple of weeks. And he did say to me at
00:24:36
the time he's like look this is what it
00:24:37
is. this is what we need to do so that
00:24:39
we can make a treatment plan and this
00:24:41
will be the hardest two weeks of your
00:24:43
life. Yeah. Cuz just the unknown, the
00:24:45
human brain doesn't like the unknown.
00:24:47
Like at least if you have a um the
00:24:49
parameters, you're like, "Okay, well
00:24:51
that's what I'm working with now." It's
00:24:53
like, you know, it can be, you know,
00:24:54
trail running kind of analogy and you're
00:24:56
like, "Oh, well, we're going to start
00:24:58
this race. We're just going to put you
00:24:59
in the bush and you got to get there and
00:25:01
no, I don't know. Don't have a map.
00:25:03
Don't know anything." Um but you got to
00:25:05
try and aim for that and it's like Once
00:25:07
you know that that's a trail or you've
00:25:09
got two rivers to cross and along the
00:25:11
way you might have to
00:25:12
>> climb a ladder or two, you know, then
00:25:13
you can make a plan and the same and
00:25:15
that's like once I know where it is in
00:25:18
my body, okay, well then that's surgery
00:25:19
or is that chemo or is that radiation or
00:25:21
actually am I planning for some
00:25:24
>> pretty big changes for my family? Yeah.
00:25:27
So that was fullon time.
00:25:28
>> So are you alone when you take the phone
00:25:30
call?
00:25:30
>> Yeah, I was at work.
00:25:32
>> Oh [ __ ] Yeah. How was does the room
00:25:34
start spinning? Yeah, when you hear it
00:25:37
is um looking back it's fascinating and
00:25:40
my need to get out was probably really
00:25:44
highlighted at that time. Like I cope
00:25:46
with things by going out on the trails
00:25:47
and moving. So I took the phone call and
00:25:51
okay. So I was in this private room cuz
00:25:53
I was in my in our treatment clinic at
00:25:55
work and I was I was googling uh and and
00:25:58
then it's like oh I need to tell my
00:26:00
husband. I need to and um
00:26:04
and I I closed my laptop and I basically
00:26:09
hit dial on my phone and I just ran into
00:26:12
the car park. I'm like standing outside
00:26:13
in the car park where there are other
00:26:15
now other people around. Our CEO was
00:26:17
there, one of the athletes and I'm like,
00:26:18
"Oh my god, okay, where do I go now?"
00:26:21
Because I just was like, "Oh, I just got
00:26:23
to get out to tell." Yeah. It was
00:26:26
fascinating that Yeah. I was I was
00:26:28
running. I was like, "Get me out of
00:26:30
here." And then realizing like, "Shit, I
00:26:33
I can't run away from this." It's like,
00:26:35
"This is this is what's happening." And
00:26:38
uh he's like, "Do do I need to come to
00:26:40
you now?" So he was he was probably 10
00:26:42
minutes away. Uh and I was like, "No,
00:26:45
I'm going to go back inside. I'm going
00:26:47
to go back inside. I'm going to close my
00:26:49
laptop properly. I'm going to put in my
00:26:51
bag and I'm going to come home. I'll see
00:26:52
you at home." But it was like uh yeah,
00:26:55
hindsight. It's just fascinating. That
00:26:56
was my response. took the news and I
00:26:58
mean when I'm working with people like
00:27:00
on the snow if we if we had something
00:27:02
big happen and you follow those process
00:27:04
and you do that and in the moment you do
00:27:06
you know you follow the process and I
00:27:08
did that in the clinic I was like okay
00:27:10
and that so what's next what's next
00:27:12
what's next and then when I had to
00:27:13
actually deal with the emotion I was
00:27:14
like what what your brain tells you to
00:27:17
>> do that um yeah couldn't quite
00:27:19
compartmentalize that anymore
00:27:21
>> it's funny like you never know how
00:27:22
you're going to I I think the stats that
00:27:25
77 New Zealanders get diagnosed with
00:27:27
cancer every day. So 77 people every day
00:27:30
>> having this phone call or this face to
00:27:31
face meeting that you had and everyone's
00:27:32
going to react a different way.
00:27:33
>> Yeah. A different way until how you know
00:27:35
how we cope and how we process and
00:27:37
whether that response or your is right
00:27:40
then or whether it's once you've
00:27:42
actually had time to
00:27:43
>> Yeah. take that on board and think about
00:27:45
what that might mean. Yeah. Yeah. 77.
00:27:48
It's a big number.
00:27:49
>> It's a big number. Massive number. like
00:27:50
one in one in three New Zealanders in
00:27:53
lifetime
00:27:54
>> are impacted by it directly or with
00:27:56
someone they know. Yeah, it's alarming.
00:27:57
>> It's huge. Yeah.
00:27:59
>> Um during this time like the I don't
00:28:01
know the days or the weeks after that,
00:28:03
what was is there a conversation that
00:28:04
stands out as the toughest that you had
00:28:06
to have?
00:28:07
>> Um yeah, I mean, yep, there were the
00:28:11
ones with my boys.
00:28:13
>> Yeah. As a parent,
00:28:14
>> how did you and your husband navigate
00:28:15
that? Did you come up with a sit down
00:28:17
together and come up with a strategy or
00:28:19
>> um not I guess I mean we t we do tend to
00:28:23
talk everything through as a family.
00:28:25
We're quite open in the the way we
00:28:28
communicate and they were there when I
00:28:30
had the biopsy so they knew that I was
00:28:32
waiting for results. Um and they didn't
00:28:36
come home that day at the same time. So
00:28:38
I was so that we did tell them
00:28:41
essentially individually the the boys.
00:28:43
Um and it's interesting you know in
00:28:46
hindsight they responded exactly as I
00:28:49
knowing their personalities exactly as I
00:28:51
would have expected them to respond. Um
00:28:54
and again that immediate emotional
00:28:56
response that is unique to each of us
00:28:59
and then then the coming back together
00:29:02
and okay what do we do now? But it was,
00:29:04
you know, one
00:29:06
one I talk about um sort of being the
00:29:09
fixer and he um he was like, "Okay,
00:29:13
well, what does that mean? Is I'm going
00:29:14
to have surgery?" And so, you know, it's
00:29:16
probably going to affect my speech or
00:29:18
might affect my um um my ability to eat
00:29:21
or, you know, and we'll just we'll see.
00:29:23
We'll make those plans. He was asking
00:29:25
questions along that like, "Okay, what
00:29:26
happens next?" And he disappeared off
00:29:28
and came back about half an hour later
00:29:29
and was like, "It's okay, Mom, cuz we're
00:29:31
just going to we're going to blend your
00:29:32
food. I've been I've been looking on
00:29:33
TikTok.
00:29:35
We're going to blend your feet. You're
00:29:36
just going to talk a little bit. Look,
00:29:38
and we're going to blend your food and
00:29:39
it's all going to be okay. So, you're
00:29:40
like, I have a solution. That is how
00:29:42
it's going to roll. We've already
00:29:43
ordered a magic bowl.
00:29:44
>> We have figured it out.
00:29:46
Everything. Yeah. Get yourself a And the
00:29:49
other one, the my youngest like the an
00:29:51
immediate emotional response, which was
00:29:53
exactly how I thought, you know, the I
00:29:55
don't want you to die and um and and a
00:29:58
big hug. and then again later all coming
00:30:01
back together as a okay what do we do
00:30:03
next but just we're all very individual
00:30:05
in our you know in our responses um and
00:30:09
learning to navigate that together is uh
00:30:12
>> yeah that's hard for families cuz we
00:30:14
don't all we don't all respond the same
00:30:15
way to stress and pressure
00:30:18
>> yeah so I
00:30:19
>> I suppose their their big fear would be
00:30:22
are you going to die
00:30:23
>> now how do you how do you answer that
00:30:25
what do you know
00:30:26
>> yeah uh at at that point the answer was
00:30:29
I don't know. I don't I don't know.
00:30:32
>> I hope not. But
00:30:32
>> yeah, that's like I don't know. The the
00:30:36
um
00:30:38
Yeah. So, the biopsy back and I have
00:30:39
cancer. We're going to see whether
00:30:41
that's anywhere else and then we can
00:30:42
plan treatment. As long as it's not
00:30:44
anywhere else, um then things will look
00:30:47
better. I mean, it's a different
00:30:48
conversation that you'd have with
00:30:51
younger kids. Um but uh but yeah, that
00:30:55
we we were relatively upfront and we we
00:30:58
don't think that that is well, we're
00:30:59
hoping that's not the the case. Um but
00:31:02
these are the steps and it's going to be
00:31:04
rough for a while. It's it's going to be
00:31:06
rough regardless.
00:31:07
>> Um yeah, things are just going to change
00:31:09
for a little bit. I'll try and figure
00:31:11
out what's going on with mom.
00:31:14
>> So May 2023, that's when you have the
00:31:16
operation to remove part of your tongue.
00:31:18
[ __ ] How nervous are you that morning
00:31:19
or the night before? Oh yeah, there's
00:31:21
not a lot of not a lot of sleep to be
00:31:23
fair. Insomnia is a thing in my life
00:31:25
anyway. Like it's how how I roll. So
00:31:28
throw in yeah, throw in that. Um was uh
00:31:32
>> yeah, I was pretty pretty scared. Just
00:31:35
it's just so unknown and I didn't know
00:31:38
um yeah, the extent of of what they were
00:31:41
going to need to take when I'd had my
00:31:42
pre-planning
00:31:44
um appointment about 3 or 4 weeks
00:31:46
beforehand, they' found another little
00:31:48
lesion under the front of my tongue. So
00:31:49
it's like what are you going to find
00:31:50
once you get in there? So um it had
00:31:53
grown and it had spread obviously. So
00:31:55
that was pretty intense. I was just
00:31:58
recording my voice left, right, and
00:32:00
center and sending, you know, sending
00:32:02
voice messages instead of uh instead of
00:32:04
text cuz I was like I love a good chat
00:32:07
and like I really like to talk to people
00:32:09
and I was just um yeah really scared of
00:32:13
losing my voice like my my ability to
00:32:17
interact, communicate. Yeah. So, uh,
00:32:19
yeah, made some journals and I
00:32:21
distracted myself with that and
00:32:23
attempted to eat, you know, the night
00:32:25
before we'd gone out for a feed and then
00:32:27
obviously I wasn't really eating that
00:32:28
morning cuz surgery. Um, but yeah, just
00:32:31
trying to keep busy and then I was an
00:32:33
early they take you in relatively early
00:32:35
on the day. Um, so I was I think first
00:32:38
on the first on the list. Um, yeah, made
00:32:41
our way into into the hospital. It's
00:32:44
like it's the weirdest thing. And it's
00:32:45
like, you know, so give my husband a
00:32:47
cuddle and say I love you. Um I wonder
00:32:50
whether you're going to actually be able
00:32:51
to
00:32:52
>> Yeah. say those words again.
00:32:54
>> [ __ ]
00:32:55
>> Yeah, that was pretty.
00:32:58
>> Yeah, that was a time.
00:33:02
>> Yes. So, so February 2023, you're lining
00:33:05
up for this 100 mile race and you know
00:33:06
it's going to suck and you know it's
00:33:08
going to hurt and you don't know if
00:33:09
you're going to make it. There might be
00:33:10
a DNF, but a DNF. And then 3 months
00:33:12
later, you've got the same sort of
00:33:14
thing, the anxiety, the nerves, the
00:33:15
stress, but I imagine it's just
00:33:16
completely different.
00:33:18
>> No idea what that It's like. Yeah. No
00:33:20
idea what that's going to look like on
00:33:21
the other side.
00:33:23
>> So depending on like how much how much
00:33:26
of the tumor they have to take from the
00:33:29
tongue. Then um sometimes they'll do
00:33:32
grafts from so like a forearm flap and
00:33:34
they um they'll graft it. And I didn't
00:33:36
think that it was going to be that for
00:33:37
me, but you you don't, you know, you
00:33:39
don't have that necessarily that
00:33:40
awareness before you go in. I had um I'd
00:33:43
been told what the expectation was, but
00:33:45
there's still like I don't I don't know
00:33:47
what's going to wake up
00:33:48
>> like and then um you know, what are
00:33:51
those results going to show? Is that
00:33:53
going to be it? Am I just in healing
00:33:55
phase from then?
00:33:56
>> Um or Yeah. Or do we do we have bigger
00:34:00
bigger things to also prepare for beyond
00:34:03
that? Yeah.
00:34:04
>> Yeah. with these um video messages that
00:34:06
you you recorded and sent out that you
00:34:08
talk about. Um some of them have been
00:34:09
made into this documentary movie. And
00:34:11
there's a there's a quote from from one
00:34:14
of these messages in the movie. It says,
00:34:16
>> "I will get through this thing. And I
00:34:18
may not sound like me, but I will be me.
00:34:21
>> I'm going to do it with all of you
00:34:22
behind me, and I'll see you on the other
00:34:24
side."
00:34:26
How do you feel when you hear that now?
00:34:28
Is that the last one? Yeah, that was um
00:34:31
that was maybe yeah, it was maybe two
00:34:34
days just before I headed to Deneden
00:34:37
>> and I yeah makes I remember how that
00:34:40
that me felt. Um, and yeah, just the
00:34:45
just that fear and the unknown. And I
00:34:48
just really wanted to
00:34:50
I had so much support from family and
00:34:53
friends, from the trail running
00:34:54
community, from our local crew in
00:34:57
Wanuka. And I wanted I wanted to be able
00:35:00
to thank again, it's like that saying I
00:35:02
love you to my husband before the
00:35:04
surgery. was I wanted to be able to me
00:35:06
say thank you before I had the surgery
00:35:10
cuz I didn't know what my speech was
00:35:12
going to be like. I didn't know how I
00:35:13
was going to be afterwards. So yeah, I
00:35:15
um I want to give her a hug cuz she was
00:35:18
trying to be really strong and share
00:35:21
information and and um yeah, provide I
00:35:25
guess a little bit of hope and
00:35:26
gratitude, but she was
00:35:28
>> freaking terrified at the same time.
00:35:31
>> Yeah.
00:35:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. Did you um Yeah. Did you
00:35:35
write any um like in case I don't make
00:35:37
it
00:35:38
>> content for the kids?
00:35:39
>> Yeah, I've got a few recordings.
00:35:41
>> Yeah.
00:35:41
>> Yeah.
00:35:42
>> So, I've never seen the light of day.
00:35:43
>> No, they're more Yeah, more like
00:35:45
messages. The I love you and I'm really
00:35:48
proud of you and Yeah. like a happy
00:35:51
birthday, happy things, you know, like
00:35:53
um
00:35:54
>> yeah, just those messages and I had
00:35:57
locked them away my in my brain and my
00:36:01
uh some of the voice notes. So, I shared
00:36:03
all of the I shared all of my journals
00:36:05
with Ben, who eventually made the
00:36:08
documentary, but lots of those voice
00:36:09
notes are just still stuck on my phone.
00:36:11
And when we were doing a fundraiser uh
00:36:14
recently using the documentary and I was
00:36:16
like I'll do some recordings cuz it's
00:36:19
easier for me than the writing just
00:36:21
ramble and then see how see what comes
00:36:23
of that and I found them and I just was
00:36:27
just sitting listening to them having a
00:36:29
good wh cuz it's it just brings it all
00:36:32
back again. And it's like those were so
00:36:34
heartfelt and there was so much fear
00:36:36
associated with making them, but also
00:36:39
the feeling that it was really important
00:36:42
to have that available for my boys.
00:36:45
>> Well, just the the mindset that you have
00:36:47
to be in to record that content in the
00:36:49
first place. Eh, it's uh
00:36:51
>> Yeah,
00:36:52
>> it's it's it's a it's a it's a love note
00:36:54
of goodbye.
00:36:55
>> Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. the um just the
00:36:59
well the the what if I'm really hoping
00:37:02
that these don't need to be used but if
00:37:04
they do I want you to I want you to hear
00:37:06
me I want you to yeah I mean you
00:37:09
hopefully you feel it here in your in
00:37:11
your heart but I want you to be able to
00:37:12
hear me say those words
00:37:14
>> and that was yeah that was really
00:37:16
important for me I haven't played those
00:37:18
to the boys because I still get to say
00:37:20
them even with my lisp but I but I get
00:37:23
to say those words so now they hear it
00:37:24
in my new way
00:37:26
>> so you you have um 20 to 25% of your
00:37:29
tongue removed. Is your I didn't I
00:37:31
didn't know you beforehand. Is is your
00:37:33
has your speech impacted or affected or
00:37:34
is it?
00:37:35
>> Yeah. So I I notice um and when I say 20
00:37:39
like in that uh the documentary in one
00:37:41
of my journals I talk about that that's
00:37:42
sort of the oral tongue. There's a heap
00:37:43
of tongue at the back but I had like uh
00:37:46
the the tumor was you know 1 and a half
00:37:49
cm um by the in size and then they take
00:37:52
healthy margin from around that. So, but
00:37:55
it was all on the side of my tongue. So,
00:37:57
not far enough back that it has affected
00:37:59
my swallowing. So, from a um yeah, an
00:38:03
eating point of view, I'm again really
00:38:06
lucky on that sense. But I'm missing and
00:38:09
I'm missing a big chunk of the side of
00:38:11
my tongue on the right side of my
00:38:13
tongue. And where they remove that and
00:38:15
um and essentially fix it part of it to
00:38:17
the floor of my mouth, I so I don't have
00:38:20
the same movement in my tongue. And the
00:38:22
second tumor um area was under the front
00:38:25
of my tongue. So they removed that. So
00:38:27
it made the tip of my tongue really uh
00:38:29
thin. So they folded it over. I had like
00:38:32
a bubble. So what was essentially the
00:38:33
top of my tongue is now the the side and
00:38:36
bottom of the front of my tongue. And
00:38:38
now so it does just doesn't move the
00:38:39
same way. Uh I don't also from the
00:38:42
radiation I don't have saliva on that
00:38:44
side of my face u my of my mouth. Um so
00:38:48
it's quite dry. So some of that's really
00:38:50
hard from a speaking point of view. And
00:38:52
so things like the the sl sounds are are
00:38:57
hard. Like I don't have the ability to,
00:39:00
>> you know, make those. I don't have the
00:39:02
tongue to make that.
00:39:04
>> What's a sl like sliver and slope
00:39:08
sl you try working in a sport that is
00:39:11
slope?
00:39:12
>> Say ski slope three times fast.
00:39:14
>> Yeah. Yeah. Ski slope. Ski slope. Ski
00:39:16
slope.
00:39:17
>> Are you doing all right? SL and but it's
00:39:21
worse when I'm tired and it's worse when
00:39:23
I'm cold. So I also work on the snow,
00:39:26
right? So you know have to um double
00:39:29
buff my face and you know bury myself in
00:39:32
jackets and and you try and keep my my
00:39:35
face moving. But um yeah, it can be a
00:39:37
little bit hard on the radio sometimes
00:39:38
on the mountain.
00:39:40
>> Did did you ever think um why me? Yeah,
00:39:44
I this reminds me of actually when I saw
00:39:46
a counselor after I uh our youngest son
00:39:49
was born really prematurely and so um we
00:39:52
had some support at that time too and
00:39:54
one of them you know talking to me about
00:39:56
you know lots of people say why me and
00:39:58
sometimes it's why not me and at the
00:40:00
time I would that made me really grumpy
00:40:03
it's like well but actually you know why
00:40:06
yeah why not me why you know why so
00:40:09
there's been lots of things over you
00:40:12
know various facets of my life that have
00:40:14
been relatively stressful. Uh, and it's
00:40:17
like, wow, it's just adulting, isn't it?
00:40:19
Adulting is hard. There's lots of things
00:40:22
happening to lots of people that, you
00:40:24
know, we see or we don't see. And we,
00:40:26
you know, how we
00:40:28
>> how you just got to deal with them. It's
00:40:30
um I can have a little angry pants
00:40:34
moment or, you know, get sad about these
00:40:36
things, but then I've still got to deal
00:40:38
with them at the end of the day. So how
00:40:39
I do that is the
00:40:41
>> the the important thing for me and you
00:40:44
know getting people around me to help me
00:40:46
through that.
00:40:47
>> Yeah.
00:40:48
>> That's definitely one thing I've got
00:40:49
from doing this podcast like almost 300
00:40:51
episodes now and I've had some amazing
00:40:53
people on some just you know uh
00:40:55
inspirational people, high performers,
00:40:56
survivors of different things and you
00:40:58
realize um
00:40:59
>> everyone goes through some sort of [ __ ]
00:41:01
>> Um the why not me thing is good.
00:41:02
Especially with cancer as we said 77
00:41:04
people a day. You're actually not that
00:41:05
special if you get
00:41:06
>> not special. You might think, "Yeah, but
00:41:08
we're not that special." It's like,
00:41:09
"Yeah, here's another one. There we go."
00:41:11
It
00:41:11
>> it sucks, but you're most definitely not
00:41:13
alone.
00:41:14
>> 100%. Yeah.
00:41:15
>> Um, what was the lowest point through
00:41:16
that that whole period? This is this
00:41:18
we're not even at the um the the post
00:41:20
tongue treatment stuff now. So, we're
00:41:22
just at the
00:41:23
>> Yeah, I mean, the lowest Yeah, the
00:41:25
lowest point through there was
00:41:27
definitely the the unknown and the fear
00:41:29
and the the in between of the the um the
00:41:33
diagnosis to the extent of it. So that
00:41:35
fear there uh waking up um postsurgery
00:41:41
and going I can I can swallow and I can
00:41:44
kind of make myself understood at this
00:41:46
point was pretty awesome. Um but it was
00:41:49
I was sore. So making sure we got that
00:41:52
right was that was pretty sore. I mean
00:41:54
you don't bite the tip of your tongue or
00:41:56
you burn your tongue and you know how
00:41:58
sore that is.
00:42:00
a cheese toasted sandwich. Yeah. Like,
00:42:02
oh no, my
00:42:04
burns. It burns. Um, yeah. So, that, you
00:42:07
know, there was a there's a lot of raw
00:42:10
area on my tongue. So, pain was um yeah,
00:42:14
pain was needing to be addressed. Um, so
00:42:17
that was that early stage. um a way you
00:42:20
hack up with a bus stitch was pretty
00:42:22
stressful when you're in Monica and the
00:42:24
the places to get things seen are like a
00:42:26
an hour away and you know in Dun the
00:42:29
ambulance come and we're going to need
00:42:30
to we're going to need to transfer you
00:42:32
um because we can't deal with that here
00:42:34
and it's still you know an hour away. So
00:42:36
those kind of things that you needed to
00:42:38
>> address and then uh yeah and then into
00:42:41
the radiation which was um
00:42:44
>> yeah that was that was pretty brutal the
00:42:47
6 weeks of of radiation um
00:42:51
>> yeah so when I I went back for my
00:42:53
follow-up postsurgery and you get the
00:42:56
hisytologology results and uh I was very
00:42:59
hopeful at that point that it was going
00:43:01
to be as they'd hoped just uh we've
00:43:03
chopped it out and out on you get on
00:43:05
with your life.
00:43:06
>> Off you go. If you work on your speech
00:43:08
and you know, go and go,
00:43:10
>> go and do Royy's Peak.
00:43:11
>> That's right. Get out. Get out. Okay.
00:43:12
Uh, and unfortunately, um, yeah, they're
00:43:16
like, so it's
00:43:20
bigger than, um, than we thought, uh,
00:43:25
because it's growing so quickly. Um, so
00:43:28
it's moved beyond the stage that we had
00:43:30
it at. Um, and it had what's called
00:43:33
perural invasion. So there was a nerve
00:43:36
grow through the tumor and a nerve
00:43:39
involvement in a tumor is like a fast
00:43:41
train out of wherever it is to in terms
00:43:45
of spread. So it's a real it's higher
00:43:47
risk and they said if we'd known that
00:43:48
before we did the surgery we would have
00:43:50
done a resection of your neck you
00:43:52
wouldn't so you had surgery and remove
00:43:54
the lymph glands in your neck as well.
00:43:56
So we need to we need to deal with those
00:43:59
and also because of the size of it we
00:44:01
need to use radiation on your tongue. we
00:44:04
could go back in and do another surgery
00:44:06
for your neck. Um, but seeing as we're
00:44:08
radiating, your tongue will well will
00:44:12
fry your neck at the same time
00:44:13
basically. Um, and so that became the
00:44:16
next plan was uh yeah, how we would then
00:44:20
manage that as a family because
00:44:21
obviously you can't have six weeks of
00:44:23
radiation from Wuka. So um yeah, making
00:44:27
plans around
00:44:29
around moving to Deneden and I mean
00:44:32
that's where the support of the cancer
00:44:34
society came in and just that the
00:44:37
incredible facility down there in Death
00:44:39
House.
00:44:40
>> Yeah. Known as um cancer camp
00:44:42
>> cancer camp to us six uh six week that
00:44:44
were there. That's what we called it.
00:44:48
>> Long-term resc
00:44:51
what a good time. So that's um that's
00:44:52
July July July 2023. Um
00:44:56
>> yeah.
00:44:57
>> Yeah. Did did you I don't know how to
00:44:59
put this, but did you meet anyone there
00:45:01
who who didn't make it out the other
00:45:03
side?
00:45:03
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. The uh beautiful
00:45:08
Aloma who passed away um earlier this
00:45:11
year. Yeah. And she was man she was so
00:45:14
strong um and she was so sick when we
00:45:17
were in there and just so strong. um
00:45:20
just really inspirational and um thought
00:45:23
things might have recovered and then
00:45:26
yeah this year yeah things changed for
00:45:29
her. Um there was a group so there was a
00:45:32
group who had been there for a week
00:45:35
before I arrived and I so they they were
00:45:38
most of them six weekers and I was 6
00:45:40
weeks so we had this fiveweek crossover
00:45:42
and uh one of the women who was there
00:45:44
with them um also passed away. Um, so
00:45:48
yeah, those really close bonds that
00:45:51
people have, but we we know also
00:45:54
understand about the consequences of
00:45:58
what we have and what we're going
00:45:59
through. So, um, yeah, really rough. Um,
00:46:05
but just taking that, yeah, that time
00:46:07
and taking strength from each other.
00:46:09
And, uh, I mean, I still, we still have
00:46:13
reunions, our cancer camp crew. Um and I
00:46:18
yeah I I did a screening of um Onwards
00:46:23
and Monica last week and Naughty came
00:46:25
through to one of my cancer campers came
00:46:28
drove through and to watch it and it's
00:46:29
just like it's just so special connect
00:46:31
there's just a
00:46:34
level yeah just a real understanding of
00:46:36
what um what you're going through at the
00:46:38
time and even in there we'd all have
00:46:40
good days and bad days and it would just
00:46:42
there was just an understanding that
00:46:43
that's how it was. So, we'll help you
00:46:45
with
00:46:45
>> we'll help each other with meals or
00:46:47
we'll help or we know you need company
00:46:49
at this time or actually just need a hug
00:46:52
where you just need to be left alone and
00:46:53
there's just that understanding. So,
00:46:55
it's an it was incredibly
00:46:57
um special time amongst a really
00:47:02
>> brutal time. Um, and I think I mean so
00:47:05
many times in moments of stress or
00:47:08
periods of stress in our lives, we form
00:47:09
these really incredible bonds and you
00:47:11
have these incredibly special moments.
00:47:14
Um, and amongst all of that awfulness.
00:47:17
Yeah. And I, you know, I wouldn't have
00:47:19
met those crew without being there. And
00:47:22
they're just these amazing people. So
00:47:25
>> yeah, I can't I just can't imagine what
00:47:27
the communal areas in um in Dor House
00:47:30
are like. like there must be just a like
00:47:32
a sense of like fear and uncertainty but
00:47:35
also just so much love and
00:47:37
>> gratitude and
00:47:38
>> yeah yeah I mean it's um it's a pretty
00:47:41
incredible facility so and to then the
00:47:43
canc society offices are there in the
00:47:45
front uh and then you go through that
00:47:47
into essentially the accommodation zone
00:47:49
um and there's a shared kitchen and
00:47:51
dining area and a shared um lounge uh
00:47:55
and TV and jigsaws and magazines and
00:47:57
things and and so you could be together
00:47:59
but apart in that space if you like I
00:48:01
need to be around other people. I don't
00:48:03
um but I don't have to be involved in
00:48:06
the conversation so much and lots of I
00:48:08
mean we we had discussed it with the the
00:48:10
the cancer society crew there. It's like
00:48:13
not everyone has the same bond that you
00:48:16
guys have we all came in at the same
00:48:17
time. So I think that probably makes the
00:48:20
difference too. were there together for
00:48:21
so long, but it's just this this um was
00:48:24
a really safe space and then around that
00:48:27
um each individual accommodation rooms
00:48:30
um so you could retreat to your space in
00:48:32
your personal space if you needed it.
00:48:33
And it was literally across the road
00:48:34
from the hospital. So, you know, walk
00:48:37
out the the door and cross over and have
00:48:39
your treatment and be able to just go
00:48:41
home and crash if you Yeah. if you
00:48:44
needed. So, just this um incredible
00:48:46
space to be able to Yeah. home away from
00:48:50
home during what's a pretty horrific
00:48:52
time. Um, yeah. So, just uh so so
00:48:56
grateful for for that facility through
00:48:58
the through the cancer society. Yeah.
00:49:01
>> So, that radiation 30 30 consecutive
00:49:04
days.
00:49:05
>> So, 30 days over six weeks. It was every
00:49:07
weekday.
00:49:07
>> Okay. Monday. Yeah.
00:49:09
>> So, you go home in the weekends to
00:49:10
Wanuka or
00:49:11
>> um the first couple of weeks. Yeah. So
00:49:13
radiation um you think sort of turnover
00:49:16
of cells you know like when you scrape
00:49:18
yourself and you heal and it takes a
00:49:19
couple of weeks for things to come
00:49:20
completely right. So when you have
00:49:23
radiation um you don't necessarily
00:49:25
notice change straight away. Um so
00:49:27
there's a sort of lag period. Um and so
00:49:31
that means whatever that lag was at the
00:49:32
beginning that's going to continue at
00:49:34
the end. So it took me um I started to
00:49:37
it was interesting post some of those
00:49:39
early radiation uh days be a bit buzzy
00:49:42
and might just feel a little bit tingly
00:49:44
in my tongue and that was it and then uh
00:49:46
and then started noticing some change in
00:49:48
my mouth. Um, and so those first couple
00:49:52
of weeks I was relatively comfortable,
00:49:55
tired, starting to get a little bit
00:49:56
fuzzy, but tired. But I would go home at
00:49:59
the weekends. And then
00:50:02
um, so radiation of the tongue and mouth
00:50:04
is pretty brutal. You just end up with a
00:50:06
mouthful of ulcers and a face that looks
00:50:09
like you've been in the sun for 6 hours.
00:50:11
Um and so pain becomes pretty big and
00:50:17
then you eating becomes a problem. Uh so
00:50:20
then energy becomes a problem. So as
00:50:23
that went on that just got progressively
00:50:25
worse and for fatigue reasons. And then
00:50:28
for um pain relief reasons. So morphine
00:50:32
and motor vehicles don't go together. So
00:50:35
not allowed to not allowed to drive long
00:50:37
distances. I stayed and I was like I
00:50:39
need to get my pain under control. Need
00:50:41
to hunker down here and just get through
00:50:43
these last couple of weeks. So um we had
00:50:47
we had a bit of a plan as a family that
00:50:50
um so I travel a lot with my work and uh
00:50:55
and Cory, my husband travels a bit with
00:50:58
his work and so that they're also kind
00:51:00
of used to us to me being away for
00:51:02
periods of time. So it was like, okay,
00:51:04
we need it to be as normal as possible
00:51:06
for our boys. So you stay in Monica and
00:51:09
they go to school and we do the things
00:51:11
and I'll go away. It's just like me
00:51:13
being on tour except I, you know, when I
00:51:16
come home, I won't have been to quite an
00:51:17
exotic place and I probably won't be
00:51:19
bringing tour presents, but um and then
00:51:21
as it got further on, like how tired um
00:51:24
mom's going to come back a little bit
00:51:25
different each week. Um but we try we're
00:51:28
just trying to keep things the same for
00:51:30
them. So Cory stayed and and I'd see um
00:51:32
and the boys each weekend and those
00:51:34
first few weeks um my sisters basically
00:51:37
alternated coming in to coming down to
00:51:39
Deneden. Um to spend some time with me
00:51:42
and just help come to some of those
00:51:44
appointments and write down the
00:51:45
information that I was trying to absorb
00:51:47
but probably not absorbing it very well.
00:51:49
Uh and then yeah some you know visits
00:51:52
from friends but just really hunkered
00:51:54
down those last couple of weeks just to
00:51:56
try and get through before I came home.
00:51:58
>> Get the job done.
00:51:59
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, you'll be able to do a
00:52:01
better job explaining this than what I
00:52:03
could ever do. All I'm basing this on is
00:52:04
what I've seen in your documentary, but
00:52:06
the um the radiation looks awful. So,
00:52:09
you you there's like a green mesh sort
00:52:11
of net thing over your head and it's
00:52:13
sort of like bolted into a
00:52:14
>> onto the table. Yeah.
00:52:16
>> Table and then into an MRI.
00:52:17
>> Yeah. It's a CT scan. Um, and then so
00:52:21
they
00:52:22
>> it's the they mold that to your face
00:52:24
when you first u when they join your
00:52:26
treatment planning. So, it's like a
00:52:27
plastic thermoplastic sheet and they
00:52:29
warm it up and you they mold your pillow
00:52:31
so that it fits your head so you don't
00:52:33
move. Um, then obviously because it's my
00:52:35
tongue, they mold a a tooth splint so to
00:52:39
hold my tongue in place. So, it's
00:52:40
essentially went in my mouth and held my
00:52:42
jaw so I can't cook. And then they mold
00:52:46
the plastic over the top and they fit
00:52:48
those two things together. So when you
00:52:50
have your radiation for head and neck
00:52:52
cancer that goes on, you literally can't
00:52:55
talk and you can't move.
00:52:57
>> And um it's you get given a 10 to 15
00:53:01
minute treatment slot. Um you get put in
00:53:04
that mask and
00:53:06
uh it's probably a minute or so they do
00:53:10
um a a CT scan, a low um intensity CT
00:53:14
scan to check that everything's lined
00:53:16
up. And then the treatment itself was
00:53:18
about 90 seconds. So in terms of being
00:53:21
bolted to the table, maybe five minutes.
00:53:23
Certainly feels like longer than that.
00:53:26
>> But um
00:53:26
>> yeah, for like for a lot of people just
00:53:28
the um the thought of that would be the
00:53:30
worst nightmare. You think
00:53:31
claustrophobia,
00:53:32
panic attacks?
00:53:33
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:53:34
>> Um what did you do? You do like box
00:53:36
breathing or meditation or
00:53:38
>> blood breathing. Just focus on the
00:53:40
breath. Focus on the breath. Um yeah, I
00:53:44
yes I tried all of those all of those
00:53:47
things and the the last few trying to
00:53:50
see how good my counting was and if I
00:53:52
could time it because it it the the
00:53:54
sound when the CT scan was on versus the
00:53:56
sound when the radiation on was slightly
00:53:58
different and I would be I knew it was
00:54:00
30 seconds of this and 30 seconds of
00:54:01
that and 30 so try like was like a
00:54:04
competition to see if I could count. So
00:54:06
that was quite useful because it just
00:54:07
made my brain focus on something else.
00:54:09
Um I um I had just enough movement most
00:54:14
of the time apart from one day which was
00:54:16
a bit rough uh where I could just
00:54:18
flutter my eyelashes and I mean I could
00:54:20
see through the mesh and they had um
00:54:24
lovely blue sky picture above you know.
00:54:26
Yeah. Like up on the and I could just
00:54:28
see this nice nice picture on the roof.
00:54:31
Um, and I was really disappointed
00:54:33
actually because when I had the the
00:54:34
original CT scan and the um and the mask
00:54:37
was made, it was in a room that had this
00:54:39
beautiful blue sky and cherry blossoms
00:54:40
and I really love that and that made me
00:54:42
think of home and my mom and I just
00:54:44
Yeah. So, I I wanted that that picture
00:54:46
on the roof. But anyway, I could see the
00:54:49
blue sky and the clouds and so I it was
00:54:52
like sort of seeing beyond that um mask
00:54:54
and it felt most of the time like just
00:54:57
someone was really gently holding my
00:54:59
head and if I focus on that and just
00:55:01
quietly focus on my breathing, it wasn't
00:55:03
so bad. Um there was this there was one
00:55:06
day where I had a slightly earlier
00:55:08
appointment time and I'd slept really
00:55:10
badly and I was sore and I uh woke up
00:55:14
and I was a little bit puffy and you
00:55:15
know you wake up in the morning and
00:55:16
you're a we a we a we a we a we a we a
00:55:17
we a we a we a we a we a wee bit puffy
00:55:18
um but usually as you get up and get
00:55:20
moving some of that goes and I had to
00:55:22
basically go straight and have my
00:55:23
appointment and um and the mask I
00:55:27
couldn't blink and I couldn't see beyond
00:55:29
and that was my that was mile one and
00:55:33
only decent panic attack in the um in
00:55:38
the mask, but they give you a little
00:55:39
buzzer. It's like you've got a bomb
00:55:40
detonator in your hand and they're like,
00:55:43
"Push this if you need anything." And
00:55:45
when I put it on and I was like, "Oh."
00:55:47
And you are you all right? And I was
00:55:49
like, "Yep, yep. We'll just keep going."
00:55:51
So, put it on and they clipped
00:55:53
everything in and they went to leave the
00:55:54
room and I'm like,
00:55:58
"Come back. Come back." I just was like
00:56:01
I just I couldn't ground I couldn't put
00:56:04
myself in place in that room and I just
00:56:07
Yeah. So they took it off and they sat
00:56:10
me up and we calmed me down. We can do
00:56:12
this again later. Oh no, I can't do that
00:56:14
later. I'm like I need to we just need
00:56:16
to do this now. I know what that's going
00:56:17
to feel like now. So just give me 30
00:56:20
seconds and get my breathing back under
00:56:22
control and
00:56:24
lie back down. And I went and I so I
00:56:26
went into that knowing what that would
00:56:28
feel like. and I could close my eyes and
00:56:31
just attempt to breathe through it. And
00:56:33
that was the only time and I think it
00:56:35
was again because something was
00:56:37
different like I change in my brain. I
00:56:41
like to I like to make a plan and kind
00:56:43
of have an idea of what's coming and I
00:56:46
didn't know that it was going to feel
00:56:47
like that that day. But it's like it's
00:56:49
pretty rough for some people. I have
00:56:51
another friend who's had um head and
00:56:53
neck uh radiation and she needed some
00:56:56
form of sedation before every
00:56:59
appointment by the end of it. Um because
00:57:01
just otherwise it was panic attack
00:57:02
straight away.
00:57:03
>> So it's a yeah it's a full on time and I
00:57:05
don't think I had that concept of what
00:57:07
it was
00:57:08
>> going to be like until I yeah till I got
00:57:10
there. But why why would you no
00:57:14
>> should you either don't need to know
00:57:16
anything about all of that. Um, where's
00:57:18
the um Did you keep the green mesh mold?
00:57:21
>> Currently lives in the hall cupboard.
00:57:24
Green lantern.
00:57:26
It's um I had great fun with that on the
00:57:28
drive home. And I took it up to I took
00:57:31
it up to Hamilton when we did a the
00:57:34
fundraiser out there. So like had it
00:57:36
with me. Got some excellent conversation
00:57:38
in the airports and there's my my buddy
00:57:39
in the lounge. But I I don't I can't
00:57:42
bring myself to get rid of it. I just
00:57:44
But I don't quite know what to do with
00:57:46
it. So it just lives in the cupboard and
00:57:47
they bring it out when it's needed.
00:57:49
>> If if it was if it was framed somewhere.
00:57:52
>> Yeah, there's lots of people do art.
00:57:55
>> People do art with it. Decorate it.
00:57:57
>> But I was like, yeah, I wonder how I'm
00:57:59
just trying to think how it would make
00:58:00
me feel like like part of it for me
00:58:02
would probably be a reminder of
00:58:03
something that I don't want to be
00:58:04
reminded of, but also part of it is um
00:58:06
>> just how how amazing technology is and
00:58:08
how lucky you are to be alive.
00:58:10
>> And it's Yeah, it is really it is really
00:58:12
cool. It's been really cool to have that
00:58:14
and be able to explain that and show
00:58:17
that to people and even like being able
00:58:19
to take the little mouthpiece out and be
00:58:21
like and this is you know this and
00:58:22
they'd take it out and they'd sterilize
00:58:24
that every day and make sure that was
00:58:25
okay and put that back in and
00:58:27
>> um yeah so it it's kind of an
00:58:29
educational piece but as you say yeah I
00:58:32
look at that and be like that was a time
00:58:35
that was a time
00:58:36
>> you see it in the hallway every day
00:58:38
>> yeah I don't see it in the hallway it
00:58:39
was like in the linen cupboard somewhere
00:58:41
down the dump down the bottom Did you
00:58:43
did you learn anything about um
00:58:45
resilience or mental toughness that you
00:58:47
could never learn from, you know,
00:58:49
forcing yourself to do tough stuff?
00:58:51
Yeah, I
00:58:53
I I like to think well I do I mean I do
00:58:58
think that probably Ultra has taught me
00:59:00
a lot about mental toughness and what
00:59:04
physically I could cope with also
00:59:05
mentally what I could cope with and um I
00:59:08
was able to and you know in top level
00:59:11
sport both as an athlete and um as a
00:59:14
provider for support staff for athletes
00:59:16
teaching me about what doing tough stuff
00:59:20
looks like um and I definitely think
00:59:22
that gave me um some
00:59:26
clarity and some um yeah some uh tools
00:59:30
in my toolbox when I went through um
00:59:32
that and you know and vice versa the
00:59:35
teaching of uh essentially don't sweat
00:59:38
the small stuff
00:59:39
>> you know or I mean sweat it but maybe
00:59:42
just for a short period of time not
00:59:44
we're not saying ignore emotions but you
00:59:47
know like it's oh yeah well see how that
00:59:49
feels
00:59:50
Okay, moving on. Yeah.
00:59:53
>> And um the metaphorically speaking, not
00:59:56
talking about the the green mesh mask,
00:59:58
but were you like um a mask wearer? Like
01:00:00
did did your family have any idea about
01:00:02
just how [ __ ] tough it was for you?
01:00:04
>> Were you quite good at sort of um
01:00:06
>> I do tend to wear masks, especially
01:00:08
around my children.
01:00:09
>> Um
01:00:10
>> understandable. I think I think most
01:00:11
moms probably would.
01:00:12
>> A certain level of you know, it's like I
01:00:14
want to be honest, but I also I want to
01:00:16
protect you a little bit.
01:00:17
>> Don't want you worrying.
01:00:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. worrying unnecessarily. So
01:00:21
if there was things that were really
01:00:22
black and white, we were we were quite
01:00:24
clear about that. You know, this is a
01:00:26
surgery, this is going to be the
01:00:27
outcome. Yes, maybe it might lead to
01:00:29
this, but we don't know that. So, we
01:00:30
don't need to throw push that at you.
01:00:32
Um, but I um
01:00:36
yeah, there were times when I was just
01:00:38
so tired or so sore and I couldn't hide
01:00:42
that anymore. And I think those were
01:00:43
probably rough times for the boys when
01:00:45
it would be I', you know, I'd go to do
01:00:48
something and it it just really really
01:00:50
freaking hurt. Um or I just had had a
01:00:53
terrible sleep because I'd been so sore
01:00:55
and you know just just crying and like I
01:00:58
just can't make decisions and I'm sore
01:01:00
and I'm just crying. And I actually
01:01:03
don't think necessarily that that's a
01:01:05
bad thing for them to
01:01:07
>> see. Like moms and dads don't and we're
01:01:10
we're not super human. You have to be
01:01:12
tough all the time. If I'm not I'm not
01:01:14
taking things out on you, but this is
01:01:16
actually how I'm feeling and I I need to
01:01:20
>> um I need to be able to cope and I'm not
01:01:23
trying to make you hold any of that, but
01:01:25
this is how I am at the moment. Um and
01:01:27
so I think some of those days were
01:01:30
probably a bit tough for the boys. Um I
01:01:33
had Lucas talking to um yeah to people
01:01:37
at one of the the showings in uh Oakland
01:01:39
and um and it was a your mom mom tried
01:01:43
to to yeah essentially look after or
01:01:46
hide not hide things but tried to hold
01:01:47
things together for us and it was um
01:01:50
seeing her come home each week just that
01:01:52
little bit that little bit worse that
01:01:53
little bit worse. um and watching that
01:01:56
change and how hard that was. Yeah. For
01:01:59
them. Yeah.
01:02:02
>> Did it change you as a person at all?
01:02:05
>> Um I like to think no.
01:02:09
>> Yeah. Are people like have you had that,
01:02:12
you know, Hail Mary moment. Uh and it's
01:02:14
like no, I feel like there's been it's
01:02:16
probably more um you know, just cemented
01:02:20
for me things that are important. I've
01:02:22
had Yeah, there's been a few big things
01:02:25
that have for various reasons through
01:02:28
it. Yeah. Um things that have happened
01:02:31
to me or people close to me that have
01:02:34
taught me about life. um and you know
01:02:40
putting the important things first and
01:02:42
and um and looking after ourselves and
01:02:45
the people we care about and and and I
01:02:48
think it probably just reinforced that
01:02:51
rather than uh the necessarily changing
01:02:53
me, you know, like I I know I sort of
01:02:56
honed over the years the things that I
01:02:58
need for my well-being. And it used, you
01:03:01
know, I now do a little bit of work with
01:03:03
that at work with other support staff
01:03:06
about how we, you know, work with our
01:03:08
our health team about how we look after
01:03:11
ourselves. We're all very good at, you
01:03:12
know, um, making sure the the athletes
01:03:14
are okay, but looking after us. And and
01:03:15
part of it for me, I know that I so I
01:03:19
need to I need to use my brain. Um, I
01:03:23
need to get out in nature. I need to
01:03:26
exercise. Um, I need to have time with
01:03:29
other people. and I need some time by
01:03:31
myself and those five things I need but
01:03:33
there's not a specific task associated
01:03:36
with that anymore. So, you know, used
01:03:38
might have used to be, oh, go and run
01:03:40
50k.
01:03:42
And now it's like I just need I need
01:03:43
need to move in nature and get my heart
01:03:46
rate up and feel like I've pushed a
01:03:47
little. I need to get out in the fresh
01:03:49
air. like I mean when I was sick and
01:03:50
having my treatment and I was still
01:03:52
trying to do some work remotely um until
01:03:54
I couldn't and I had very supportive um
01:03:59
like bosses and my my crew at both high
01:04:02
performance sport and snow sport it's
01:04:04
just amazing uh so it's like we'll do
01:04:06
what you can we do what you can but when
01:04:08
I got to the point where I like I can't
01:04:10
read a journal article anymore that
01:04:12
makes no sense to me
01:04:13
>> but I still need something to occupy my
01:04:15
brain my brain and you know that became
01:04:17
jigsaw puzzles and attempt sedoku, but I
01:04:20
can't do those when my brain's fully
01:04:21
functioning. So then I'm not. But you
01:04:23
know, it's like use something. So yeah,
01:04:25
there's things things that I know I need
01:04:28
in my life. So it's probably clarified
01:04:31
>> for me. Yeah. Just it's really important
01:04:34
to keep those things in order. All the
01:04:35
wheels fall off.
01:04:37
>> Yeah. And um like we were talking about
01:04:39
at the beginning, the glass ball thing.
01:04:41
Um but you can't just like um have this
01:04:42
epiphany like right, I I now know what
01:04:45
is important and what's not cuz life
01:04:47
goes on. You still have to work. Yeah,
01:04:48
you kids have their own lives to
01:04:50
>> lead. Exactly. Trying to get that
01:04:52
balance for them and and I love my work.
01:04:54
I love the challenge of my work and I
01:04:56
you know the when we're working with
01:04:59
athletes and trying to solve puzzles and
01:05:02
performance or injury and like I love
01:05:04
that stuff. It's such a challenge for my
01:05:06
brain. Um, so I want that to be part of
01:05:09
my world and I want to get back on the
01:05:11
trails, but um, like it's like there's
01:05:14
it's just finding that balance and
01:05:15
what's what's actually necessary for
01:05:17
that flow
01:05:18
>> at that time. Yeah. And
01:05:20
>> Yeah. And there are times in your life
01:05:23
where you might put more priority on one
01:05:25
of those than than another. Um, and it's
01:05:28
uh for me I I have a tendency to say yes
01:05:31
to a lot of things. Um, and I'm working
01:05:33
very hard. Maybe you I'm working very
01:05:37
hard. I'm not always successful, Dom.
01:05:38
But I but I am working very hard on on
01:05:42
that. Um because I I like doing the
01:05:45
things and I yeah I like learning and I
01:05:47
like
01:05:48
>> yeah getting involved and um sometimes
01:05:51
that's at the detriment of the glass
01:05:54
ball that is health. So I need to you
01:05:56
know whether that's physical health,
01:05:58
mental health like it yeah things
01:06:00
snowball. Um, so that's a very important
01:06:04
>> glass ball to be looking after. And
01:06:06
sometimes I actually need other people
01:06:07
to
01:06:08
>> point that out to me that maybe you're
01:06:10
doing a little bit much right now.
01:06:13
>> So, so you get through that 6 weeks um
01:06:16
in Denedan radiation every day, Monday
01:06:18
to Friday for 6 weeks. When so that that
01:06:20
finishes then then what how long is it
01:06:22
before you get some news? Yes.
01:06:24
>> What do they warn you after the last
01:06:26
day?
01:06:26
>> Yeah. So I was still having so I went
01:06:29
home um and you get the warning that so
01:06:33
whatever your latent period was at the
01:06:35
beginning before your symptoms started
01:06:37
ex expect symptoms to continue to get
01:06:39
worse for that same period. So for me it
01:06:41
was about 10 days. Um afterwards so we
01:06:45
need to monitor you really closely. Um I
01:06:48
lost a [ __ ] ton of weight. So part of
01:06:52
that was also making sure that I was
01:06:54
getting enough in cuz I couldn't uh I
01:06:56
couldn't eat it properly at that point.
01:06:58
Everything was either pured or liquid.
01:07:00
Um and uh and keeping pain under
01:07:04
control. So I those first few weeks
01:07:07
every I still went back once a week
01:07:09
drove down or got driven down and had a
01:07:12
checkup um for those first two weeks and
01:07:14
make sure we're on top of all of that.
01:07:16
And then it was like a fortnight and
01:07:18
then it was a month and then it became
01:07:20
three monthly checks. Um, and now two
01:07:23
years on it's four monthly checks.
01:07:26
>> Is is there a moment where where they
01:07:27
say we think you're good, we think
01:07:29
you're cancer free?
01:07:30
>> Well, I uh
01:07:32
not in the next few years for me, Dom,
01:07:34
no. So, that's what everyone wants
01:07:36
ultimately. Like an absolute
01:07:38
>> I would like an absolute tick, please.
01:07:40
Yes. Gold star. Off you go. Get on with
01:07:43
your life.
01:07:43
>> Don't Don't show your face around here
01:07:44
again. No more for you.
01:07:48
>> You greedy. So greedy with the
01:07:49
radiation.
01:07:50
>> Needy needy needy. No, I um Oh god. I uh
01:07:58
5 years
01:08:00
>> 5 years. Uh although um so they start
01:08:03
pushing things out. So I'm I'm at four
01:08:06
months. I'm I'm thinking hoping
01:08:11
ever the optimist that that will get put
01:08:12
out to 6 months um soon cuz everything
01:08:15
has been okay and then they go to a year
01:08:18
and then and then at 5 years you
01:08:20
generally get the we haven't seen
01:08:22
anything. So the biggest um sort of time
01:08:24
for recurrence um especially for oral
01:08:27
cancers is in that first two years. So
01:08:29
nearly through that which is nice.
01:08:31
>> Fantastic. Does it do you feel do you
01:08:33
feel physically and like you're out of
01:08:35
the woods? Well, I yes and no. Like yes
01:08:39
for the most times and then again when
01:08:41
you're a bit tired or maybe a bit
01:08:43
stressed about anything in general and
01:08:44
the worries you know
01:08:46
disappear. So yeah it's very much um uh
01:08:50
it's um yeah just battling those inner
01:08:54
demons on those front and again I never
01:08:56
felt unwell. So it's really hard now to
01:08:59
go h I wonder or you know you get a
01:09:02
cough that's stuck around for a while
01:09:04
and it's like maybe it's spread maybe
01:09:06
like it's back maybe and you know how
01:09:08
many times can you check your tongue in
01:09:10
a day if you've burnt your tongue on a
01:09:12
toasty and you're like is that going to
01:09:13
heal in a couple of days?
01:09:15
So there's there's so much doubt and
01:09:17
second guessing about those things. Um,
01:09:19
and then it's how you manage to flip
01:09:22
that and be like, "Okay, well, I know
01:09:23
that if I find something or if I'm
01:09:25
worried, I have these appointments, but
01:09:27
I could ring. There's a because I'm in
01:09:29
the system, there's a clinic every
01:09:31
Monday at the in the ENT oncology um
01:09:34
department, and I could ring and go and
01:09:36
get things checked out." And that's the
01:09:38
importance, I guess, of staying
01:09:40
>> on the books. So I um I have been told I
01:09:44
was told last time maybe the time before
01:09:47
um it's a bit strange my
01:09:50
tongue cancer like the the risk factors
01:09:52
that the normal risk factors kind of
01:09:54
aren't there for me um and that they
01:09:57
might keep me on the books for a little
01:09:58
bit longer because um yeah they're just
01:10:01
not really quite sure why. And that's
01:10:05
reassuring. It's like I'd really like to
01:10:06
get the gold star and sign off, but I
01:10:08
also it's really reassuring to go ah I
01:10:10
don't have to go back through wait for
01:10:12
an appointment with my GP, wait for a
01:10:14
referral, wait for a second and get down
01:10:16
and that time that that puts in when you
01:10:18
know how quickly things can change. Um
01:10:20
so that's reassuring. I don't mind
01:10:23
getting held on to for a little bit
01:10:25
longer if it gives me a little bit of
01:10:28
>> Absolutely. Peace of mind.
01:10:29
>> Peace of mind. Yeah.
01:10:30
>> Um and what about the physical recovery?
01:10:32
So after having the operation on your
01:10:34
tongue and then six weeks of radiation
01:10:36
um
01:10:37
>> I remember reading Lance Armstrong's
01:10:39
book back in the day. So this is um
01:10:40
>> top bloke.
01:10:44
>> This
01:10:44
>> that's another channel together the book
01:10:47
he wrote. It's it's actually a great
01:10:48
book.
01:10:49
>> He did write a good story.
01:10:51
>> It's called it's not about the bike and
01:10:53
he was like I think given like 2% chance
01:10:55
of survival with testicular cancer.
01:10:57
>> Um so before that he was he was one of
01:10:59
the fittest men on the planet. May maybe
01:11:02
to help with drugs. Who knows? Um but he
01:11:04
he talked about getting back on the bike
01:11:06
and like cycling up a a hill and an old
01:11:08
lady riding past him on a bike. Yeah.
01:11:10
What was it like for you going from
01:11:11
running a 100 miles in February to When
01:11:14
did you first run? Later that year?
01:11:16
>> I did I did start running. So I did a
01:11:19
little bit of um
01:11:21
walking and then trying to turn that
01:11:24
into
01:11:26
Yeah, that it was more just um I felt
01:11:30
I guess that underlying fitness from
01:11:33
having had all of that um training
01:11:36
beforehand and it wasn't a huge amount
01:11:38
of time before you know like um February
01:11:42
I was still running in April so I ran
01:11:44
through my time when I was away right up
01:11:46
until the May when I had my surgery. So
01:11:48
I was still pretty fit at that point. So
01:11:51
you know August you coming out of there
01:11:54
was some deconditioning just general
01:11:55
fitness but there was sort of this low
01:11:57
level there but I was just generally
01:12:00
tired all the time and my brain pretty
01:12:02
foggy. So um and I just that first
01:12:05
period when I said I couldn't really eat
01:12:08
when I knew that I was going to have the
01:12:10
surgery and the radiation. I was talking
01:12:12
to, you know, some of the crew at work
01:12:14
and we're sort of lucky because we have
01:12:16
quite a few departments that support the
01:12:18
athletes. So, I was like talking to the
01:12:20
jock and talking to nutrition and I just
01:12:22
like, you just got to start eating. You
01:12:23
just got to you got to eat cuz I was I
01:12:26
was like race size at that point was
01:12:28
there's not a lot on me. Um and so I
01:12:31
think I put on maybe 4 kgs before I even
01:12:33
had the surgery. Um and then that
01:12:36
dropped again below um below pre pre uh
01:12:40
pre um race levels and then by the end
01:12:42
of the radiation I mean I put on 5 kg
01:12:45
and I lost 10 is I'm not that's quite a
01:12:49
large proportion of my body weight and I
01:12:51
just yeah so that trying to build that
01:12:54
back up and just having the energy and
01:12:55
especially around pain and um and just
01:12:59
brain fog and not being able to sleep.
01:13:00
So I I got back into um doing a little
01:13:03
bit of jogging and I I mean even now I
01:13:07
feel like if I had to do something long
01:13:10
tomorrow I could I could go out and do
01:13:13
it cuz also that's I'm bit stubborn. But
01:13:16
um and so it was that I wanted to go
01:13:17
back and be around my trail running crew
01:13:21
cuz so in the September of that year I
01:13:24
went to Tapo cuz I knew all of my my
01:13:27
tailwind gang were going to be there and
01:13:29
my husband and I went and we did um the
01:13:32
12k which was we we joged through that.
01:13:36
It was and we did that together and that
01:13:38
was a pretty emotional day just um I'm
01:13:40
back with the people I yeah back with my
01:13:43
my fam uh and then and then because I
01:13:48
survived that without busting myself. So
01:13:51
then I signed up for the wild that year
01:13:52
which was a you know they did a number
01:13:54
of um of distances and I signed up for
01:13:58
the 30. Um so my my good friend S and
01:14:01
Mel um law were you know Mel was
01:14:04
creating that event and I really wanted
01:14:05
to be part of that and again it was
01:14:07
wasn't about racing it was just going
01:14:09
and being around those people. So,
01:14:10
>> wasn't about whatever time I I don't
01:14:12
even know what time I finished that in,
01:14:14
but um but just to be able to get back
01:14:17
out there and and be around the the
01:14:19
people who had supported me through
01:14:21
that. Your tribe.
01:14:22
>> My tribe. Yeah. So, that was
01:14:24
>> Yeah, that was cool. And I haven't
01:14:27
I haven't got back to racing like I
01:14:29
don't and I don't know where that sits.
01:14:31
also um a long history of trail running
01:14:36
has resulted in multiple ankle sprains
01:14:38
and I might have completely blown that
01:14:41
out um on a downhill bomb in America
01:14:44
when I was away this year um and leaning
01:14:47
towards some surgical repair
01:14:48
requirements.
01:14:50
I mean like I've done all the work. Do
01:14:52
you know a good physio? I I've done
01:14:54
>> physio are the worst at addressing their
01:14:56
own issues. No, I've tried. I I have
01:14:59
really tried like strength and balance
01:15:01
work and it's still I'm just so
01:15:02
unstable. So anyway, racing and the
01:15:06
desire to race.
01:15:08
I mean, they would never, to be fair,
01:15:10
they would that it was never about
01:15:11
racing for me. It was about the event
01:15:14
and being around my people and being out
01:15:16
in nature. And I would push because I
01:15:18
wanted to see how far I could push. But
01:15:20
it wasn't like wasn't about competing
01:15:21
with you or you Ruth Croft. Use Ruth
01:15:25
Croft. Don't use me as example. I'm not
01:15:27
beating anybody.
01:15:28
>> Cofty. I'll just be like, "Hi," on the
01:15:29
start line and he can tell me how great
01:15:31
it was when I finished 27 hours after
01:15:33
you. Yeah. Thanks, Ruth. Um, what a
01:15:36
legend. Um, yeah. So, no, it was never
01:15:38
about it was never about competing with
01:15:40
other people, but I would I'd love to be
01:15:42
able to get it back out there and just
01:15:43
feel like I was pushing, but that was
01:15:46
that's for me. And at the moment, I have
01:15:47
to do that kind of on my terms for
01:15:50
>> um both for events, but also just time.
01:15:53
I mean, I I travel with snow sports, so
01:15:55
in the summer
01:15:57
>> I'm away in the winter. Like I we we go
01:16:00
chasing snow, so don't get the same
01:16:02
opportunity.
01:16:03
>> And I suppose it just um it brings home
01:16:05
what's really important. Suddenly you
01:16:07
realize um a good result in one of these
01:16:08
events is not a glass ball.
01:16:10
>> No, no, no.
01:16:11
>> Not even close to being a glass ball.
01:16:13
>> Going and just being at the event and
01:16:14
cheering my mates on. That's a good
01:16:16
that's a good ball, you know, like going
01:16:17
and being in that environment, you know,
01:16:19
and going and and helping at a stand
01:16:21
talking to people on the start or the
01:16:22
finish line like that is cool for like I
01:16:25
just like ah yeah, all of these
01:16:27
like-minded people who also just want to
01:16:29
be out moving in nature with people who
01:16:32
like to do the same. Like that is
01:16:34
>> that's um that's events for me. And also
01:16:37
you get to go to these cool places that
01:16:39
you just don't necessarily otherwise get
01:16:41
to go to. Like that's that's what I love
01:16:42
about trail running too. And I I mean
01:16:45
I'm pretty fortunate. I do live in quite
01:16:47
a beautiful part of the world and there
01:16:48
are lots of trails available so I can
01:16:50
escape to the trails whenever I want.
01:16:52
But that connection with people part of
01:16:54
things is um that's probably the biggest
01:16:57
bit that I miss about not being able to
01:17:00
do so many of the events.
01:17:02
>> Yeah. The people piece.
01:17:04
>> So um the documentary which we've talked
01:17:06
about a couple of times onwards. But is
01:17:07
it going to be on YouTube? Are people
01:17:09
going to like by the time this podcast
01:17:10
is out people going to be able to watch
01:17:11
it freely somewhere or
01:17:13
>> Yeah. So, uh, yeah, the the podcast Ben
01:17:15
WBank, what a legend of a human he is.
01:17:17
Um, so my my mate who when, uh, we
01:17:22
realized that I was going back for the
01:17:24
radiation, um, and he knew that I'd been
01:17:27
journaling cuz people had started asking
01:17:30
me how I was doing and there lots of
01:17:32
coms and I just didn't really have the
01:17:34
oomph to do it. So, I was starting to
01:17:36
share things. So, some of my journals
01:17:37
and messages for people to say,
01:17:39
>> now I'm doing this is what I'm doing and
01:17:41
thanks. Um, and he s saw that I was
01:17:43
doing that and he came to me and was
01:17:46
like, "Do you do you want um do you want
01:17:48
me to help capture your story?" And I
01:17:50
was like, "Well, sure." I mean, yeah,
01:17:53
that would be amazing. And in the
01:17:55
beginning, it was same as like my my
01:17:57
voice recordings was um it was we had no
01:18:01
idea what the outcome was going to be in
01:18:04
terms of how I was going to be, let
01:18:06
alone what we might make from all of
01:18:07
these recordings. But he was just like,
01:18:09
"Look, I want I want you to have some
01:18:11
footage of stuff that you can't
01:18:12
necessarily do yourself." So, he come to
01:18:14
to the hospital with me a couple of
01:18:16
times, recorded me having some of my
01:18:17
treatments, um, and trying to put that
01:18:20
together. And, you know, that might be
01:18:22
something that you get to look back on
01:18:24
and goof that was a journey or if it all
01:18:27
turns to [ __ ] it's something for your
01:18:29
family to be able to look on.
01:18:31
>> Uh, and if all goes well, touch wood.
01:18:35
Um, we can create something out of this.
01:18:37
and um you know actually share my
01:18:40
philosophy about life and resilience and
01:18:43
movement and nature and just you know
01:18:44
hope um but also be able to use it as an
01:18:46
educational tool and thankfully it's
01:18:49
become option option three at this point
01:18:52
which is great and so you know I tried I
01:18:54
really really wanted to give back to the
01:18:57
cancer society who had helped um me
01:19:01
through my journey specifically and who
01:19:03
helped so many people and who've also
01:19:05
really supported my family across years.
01:19:07
There's been a number of instances where
01:19:09
they have been involved um in my life um
01:19:13
with my nana and my uncle and my mom um
01:19:16
and helping us through you know and and
01:19:19
more recently family friends and I just
01:19:22
I just wanted to be able to give back
01:19:24
and uh and so we did we've used it as a
01:19:27
fundraiser specifically in uh Hamilton
01:19:30
and what was raised there went back to
01:19:32
the Wetto branch and in Wanuka what was
01:19:34
raised there coming to the um South
01:19:37
Branch. I want to do another one in
01:19:38
Deneden, but we want it to go wider. Um,
01:19:41
so Ben has very kindly said that we
01:19:44
could use this film with the Cancer
01:19:46
Society. So it was in um the Dockage
01:19:49
Film Festival this year was a finalist
01:19:50
in that and he has essentially gifted
01:19:52
that to the Cancer Society. So we're
01:19:55
using it alongside um their fundraising
01:19:58
initiative which is marathon in a month
01:20:00
which um is just encouraging people to
01:20:03
get out and move in some way the other.
01:20:05
um the distance of a marathon in a month
01:20:07
or more if you want. Um but fundraising
01:20:10
alongside that. Um so to be released
01:20:13
alongside that um so through the cancer
01:20:15
society and links there'll be
01:20:17
accessibility to see this film um and um
01:20:22
yeah and one for fundraising but two
01:20:24
education and awareness um to be able to
01:20:27
use it with the with the branches in
01:20:29
terms of like even had chats with some
01:20:32
of them around um just I support these
01:20:35
people all the time but I don't know
01:20:36
what they go through. Um, so being able
01:20:38
to show some of that as well as for the
01:20:40
people actually going through it or this
01:20:42
is what this is what you might expect
01:20:44
and this is what helped me or this was
01:20:46
you know the things along the way. So
01:20:47
yes, it will be available. The links are
01:20:49
not necessarily available yet but just
01:20:51
keep an eye on the cancer society or my
01:20:53
socials and we'll put it out as soon as
01:20:55
those links go live but
01:20:58
>> God could have been a very different
01:20:59
documentary.
01:21:01
I don't know much about film making but
01:21:02
I know it's never great when the main
01:21:04
character passes away. No, I mean it's a
01:21:06
an emotional story. I'm sure it would be
01:21:08
and I'd really like for that I'd like
01:21:10
there not to be a sequel
01:21:13
but umh
01:21:15
so yeah, we'll go with this we'll go
01:21:18
with the happy ending at this point
01:21:20
would be great. Um yeah, I mean and I
01:21:22
think
01:21:24
>> um what I would say is I don't know that
01:21:27
it necessarily would have been the same
01:21:29
film if it wasn't Ben making the film.
01:21:32
like it was an awful lot of trust to
01:21:34
just be like, "Oh, here are my innermost
01:21:37
thoughts. You take those and turn them
01:21:40
into something that the rest of the
01:21:41
world can see." Um, and to trust him
01:21:44
that he would use that in a way that was
01:21:46
still really authentic for me. And um,
01:21:50
yeah, I just, you know, to allow him in,
01:21:53
but just also his way, his manner of
01:21:55
being able to just be quietly there with
01:21:58
me and support, but recording at the
01:22:00
same time. It's like, yeah, it was what
01:22:03
a gift for me and my family. Um, but
01:22:06
also actually what a a gift from an
01:22:08
educational point of view and, you know,
01:22:10
for the cancer society. So,
01:22:11
>> yeah, 100% incredible.
01:22:13
>> I'm I'm sure with with anything, the the
01:22:15
more you see something, the less
01:22:16
impacted it has. And so, I'm sure you're
01:22:18
at the point now where you can watch it
01:22:19
and it's not an overly emotional
01:22:20
experience. But, can you remember the
01:22:22
first time you saw it?
01:22:23
>> Yeah.
01:22:23
>> What was that like? Were you complete
01:22:25
wreck?
01:22:26
>> Yeah. It was like, oh, wow. Like, we saw
01:22:29
it. We saw it. Um it was quite cool
01:22:31
actually. So Ben had approached um the
01:22:34
crow at parody so in uh Wanuka the
01:22:37
cinema there and they had allowed us to
01:22:39
show it just for my family um in the
01:22:41
cinem. So it was on the big screen then
01:22:43
too. That was the first time I'd seen
01:22:44
it. So my so it was my immediate family.
01:22:48
So my um husband and kids and um some of
01:22:51
the uh
01:22:52
>> the crew from Wanuka so our Wanuka
01:22:55
locals had who' supported me there and
01:22:58
um yeah that was I was the first thought
01:23:01
actually was like golly I'm really big
01:23:03
I'm really big up there very close like
01:23:06
oh no and then I'd start seeing some of
01:23:09
the the jourers like oh no I know what I
01:23:11
said this but I don't remember this. Um
01:23:13
but actually um yeah I I rode the
01:23:17
emotions of that because um it wasn't
01:23:19
just watching the story. I like relived
01:23:22
those when I watched it for the first
01:23:23
time. And as you say like it's not you
01:23:25
it does dull a little bit when I watch
01:23:28
it each time. But mostly actually I see
01:23:31
something else that I Yeah. It just
01:23:34
triggers something else. So I I see
01:23:36
something new each time I watch it.
01:23:37
Actually I think I'm on maybe fifth or
01:23:39
sixth. Sixth or seventh. I might have
01:23:40
watched it quite a few times. What's the
01:23:42
What's the hardest scene for you to
01:23:44
watch?
01:23:45
>> Oh, what is the hardest scene? Um,
01:23:49
there's probably two journals uh when I
01:23:52
am writing or talking rather about the
01:23:56
panic attack because I
01:23:58
remember that panic. Um and um the one
01:24:03
where there's a scene where I talk about
01:24:06
the it's the first weekend that I can't
01:24:08
go home and I just farewell my sister
01:24:11
off to the um to the airport cuz they
01:24:14
all live in the North Island and um and
01:24:17
I was trying to journal while I just
01:24:20
changed the sheets and I was just like
01:24:22
that. Oh, I'm just [ __ ] I'm here. I've
01:24:26
still got three more weeks and it's like
01:24:28
I'm it's rough already and I Yeah. That
01:24:31
um they're probably the hardest. Yeah.
01:24:33
Yeah. And just being like, "Oh, yeah."
01:24:36
And and I guess I um I watch it from the
01:24:41
view of I know how I felt then. I also
01:24:43
know what came next. And um so that some
01:24:45
of those are hard, but they're they're
01:24:46
probably the two key moments for me that
01:24:50
oh the recognition that it was bad and
01:24:52
it was going to get worse and I was just
01:24:54
going to have to suck it up and deal
01:24:56
with it. Yeah, that was um yeah, that's
01:24:59
probably the hardest one for me when I
01:25:01
look at that.
01:25:02
>> People that watch it, what do you hope
01:25:03
they take away from it?
01:25:05
Um I hope I hope that they take it as um
01:25:10
yeah a a one education um but more so
01:25:15
just I guess a story of hope and a way
01:25:18
to cope and that there's always ways
01:25:20
that we can look at things and support
01:25:22
we can gather from the people around us
01:25:26
or the strength we can take from um the
01:25:29
people around us and actually that um
01:25:31
there's an awful lot of strength that we
01:25:34
have in ourselves that we don't
01:25:35
necessarily realize until until you have
01:25:39
to use it. Um, and I just yeah, I hope
01:25:42
it allows people to just um see that
01:25:45
it's okay to pause and take a moment and
01:25:48
figure out you know what's what's
01:25:50
important to them and um and focus on
01:25:52
that and you know get out and and live
01:25:55
life. I mean that was onwards is was how
01:25:58
when I first started sharing my story
01:26:00
was how I would sign off all of my
01:26:02
message. It was like, oh yeah, and this
01:26:04
is happening onwards. And that was, you
01:26:06
know, it's like, oh god, here we go.
01:26:07
It's like an ultra, isn't it? You're
01:26:09
like, it's the wheels are falling off
01:26:11
and I'm deep in the pain cave and I'm
01:26:12
absolutely exhausted, but I've actually
01:26:14
got to keep going. So onwards. So, you
01:26:16
know, just one step at a time.
01:26:19
>> Um, focus on the important things and
01:26:20
and just keep quietly moving forward.
01:26:23
Yeah.
01:26:24
>> And what advice would you give to
01:26:25
someone newly diagnosed with cancer or
01:26:27
going through some other life-changing
01:26:29
events? Um I think uh probably first
01:26:32
thing it's okay to sit in all of those
01:26:37
emotions at the beginning like are you
01:26:40
just trying to figure out actually how
01:26:41
you feel about all of those things get
01:26:45
support around you and reach out for
01:26:47
help even when you're not necessarily
01:26:49
sure what you need. um if you can if you
01:26:52
can get support and I mean some people
01:26:54
live you know by themselves or in
01:26:57
isolation there are there are there is
01:26:59
support so you know the cancer society
01:27:00
is one but reaching out to people um so
01:27:04
it doesn't have to be your immediate
01:27:05
friends and family seek help and um yeah
01:27:08
just ask questions continue to to get
01:27:11
the information you need so that you can
01:27:13
cope with it in whatever way you need
01:27:16
all we're all a bit different um but
01:27:19
taking the time to get support around
01:27:20
you have your medical questions answered
01:27:23
and um and just quietly work your way
01:27:26
through it. Um it's probably my yeah my
01:27:29
big piece. Take a moment. The powers in
01:27:31
the pause like take a moment um because
01:27:35
it is huge that that that immediate
01:27:38
information is huge and give yourself
01:27:40
time and support to sit with it. M
01:27:44
>> if if your if your two sons and your
01:27:46
husband were in the other room,
01:27:48
>> um what three words would you like them
01:27:49
to say about you behind your back?
01:27:51
>> Wow. Um
01:27:54
I do not know how to answer that
01:27:56
question. Um what would I um I would
01:28:00
like three words maybe to describe me. I
01:28:02
would want it to be um
01:28:05
what would that be? Love. Um
01:28:09
yeah, resilience, strength. Um and fun.
01:28:14
>> Yeah.
01:28:15
>> Yeah. Like I trying to you just want to
01:28:18
see the the best like I love and and
01:28:21
that connection is so important. Um
01:28:23
taking strength in yourself and each
01:28:25
other but life's fun or it should be you
01:28:28
know put those three things together and
01:28:30
it's a Yeah, it's a it's a good time.
01:28:33
>> They're all great words. Yeah. Are you
01:28:35
proud of yourself?
01:28:36
>> Yeah, I think so.
01:28:37
>> Yeah.
01:28:40
>> Yes. There's no right or wrong answer.
01:28:42
>> Yes, job. I'm very proud of it. Yes, I
01:28:43
am. Yeah, like I am. I think um
01:28:46
>> I think that mean there's lots of things
01:28:48
and sometimes we don't just sit back and
01:28:50
go, "Shit, that was pretty good." And on
01:28:52
like on, you know, the the strength to
01:28:55
get through this, the physical stuff,
01:28:57
you know, from the running, the ability
01:29:00
to be vulnerable. Um,
01:29:04
and uh, and I think being able to use
01:29:07
that and be okay with sharing what is a
01:29:10
pretty raw story. Um, and be vulnerable
01:29:13
in a way that will hopefully help other
01:29:15
people.
01:29:16
>> Um, yeah, I'm I'm proud of that. Yeah.
01:29:20
Yeah. Look at me sitting here with my
01:29:22
arms crossed. I'm also like slightly
01:29:23
uncomfortable about sharing it. I'm
01:29:25
proud of me.
01:29:26
>> You've um Yeah, a lot of New Zealanders
01:29:28
struggle with that question. Yeah, you
01:29:30
you've um come close to crying or you
01:29:31
have cried like a couple of times, maybe
01:29:33
three times on the podcast today. Were
01:29:35
you
01:29:35
>> Yeah. Were you this emotional beforehand
01:29:37
or were you quite a tough cookie
01:29:38
beforehand?
01:29:41
>> I uh I'm a little bit of a crier.
01:29:45
>> It's always been there.
01:29:47
>> Yeah. I um I used to say I like to think
01:29:50
of it as like I'm sort of this like a
01:29:53
kettle, right? And uh and it's just
01:29:55
emotion, good, bad, otherwise. And every
01:29:58
so often it just bubbles over and it's
01:30:00
just emotion. I always used to say to my
01:30:02
husband and we were having discussions
01:30:04
about things and I would feel very
01:30:05
strongly about things one way or another
01:30:07
and I would cry and I was like why the
01:30:09
hell am I crying? I don't know what I'm
01:30:10
crying and be like Cy listen to my words
01:30:13
not my tears listen to my words not my
01:30:16
tears because sometimes it just comes
01:30:18
out when I feel very strongly about
01:30:19
things. So yes um yes I was probably
01:30:22
always a crier. I do I do hold emotions
01:30:26
very close to the surface and possibly
01:30:28
more than I used to, but as I say, good
01:30:31
and bad. Like I I will cry at the really
01:30:34
awesome stuff too these days. Um so
01:30:38
yeah, also you like I'm a middle-aged
01:30:40
woman, so I'm crying crying a lot. So
01:30:44
you know, like a I do I do think uh
01:30:47
yeah, emotions are it's okay to share
01:30:50
them. In fact, I think it's important.
01:30:52
So
01:30:53
>> 100%. Yeah, I think that's a good good
01:30:55
space to be playing in. Crying at the
01:30:57
stuff that you're you're grateful for
01:30:58
and that you're upset about. I think
01:31:00
that's right.
01:31:00
>> There's just so much emotion. It's just
01:31:02
bof out my eyes. Here we go. Here I go
01:31:04
again.
01:31:04
>> Hey, well, I'm glad you're doing well.
01:31:06
>> Thank you.
01:31:06
>> And um yeah, thank you so much for being
01:31:08
here today to share your story on the
01:31:10
podcast.
01:31:11
>> Thank you. Thanks for thanks for having
01:31:12
me.
01:31:13
>> Helen Baron, you're a great New
01:31:14
Zealander. Lovely to meet you.
01:31:16
>> You, too. Thanks, Dom.
01:31:20
Hey, hey, hey.
