00:00:10
I played boys cricket growing up till I
00:00:12
was 18. Now my mom had cancer and then
00:00:14
it came back again when I was about 18
00:00:16
and then my dad lost his parents within
00:00:19
about 6 months of each other and I was
00:00:21
young but I seemed to observe a lot and
00:00:24
and notice those things and dad was like
00:00:26
you probably won't make it. I made my
00:00:29
debut for the White Fins in 2016, which
00:00:31
did not think at all that was going to
00:00:33
happen.
00:00:33
>> So, you make the New Zealand team when
00:00:35
you were 16,
00:00:36
>> went to England and ended up playing
00:00:37
every single game over there.
00:00:39
>> 232 runs not out. Just [ __ ] insane.
00:00:42
So, I've got Susie Bates, now I've got
00:00:43
you, Meie Ker.
00:00:44
>> I know. What a downgrade.
00:00:47
>> Mey Kerr, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:49
>> Dom, thanks for having me. Good to be
00:00:51
here,
00:00:51
>> mate. We've been trying to I I went back
00:00:53
through my DMs on Instagram. We've been
00:00:55
bouncing backwards and forwards for the
00:00:57
best part of a year trying to figure
00:00:59
figure out how to do this. And
00:01:00
>> I know it's been it's been a it's been a
00:01:03
bit of a mission to get this this
00:01:05
podcast going, but finally
00:01:07
>> finally
00:01:07
>> and in the mount of all places.
00:01:09
>> It's wonderful. So you're here for a
00:01:10
training camp at the moment with the New
00:01:12
Zealand team.
00:01:13
>> Yeah.
00:01:13
>> Yeah. Here till Tuesday. Tuesday night.
00:01:17
Um yeah, we go to South Africa soon. So
00:01:19
training camp with everyone which be
00:01:21
which has been nice. you are all over
00:01:24
the place. I I was in the UK last month.
00:01:26
I did a podcast there with uh your
00:01:29
friend Susie Bates who you told me just
00:01:31
off mic before is maybe the best New
00:01:33
Zealand cricketer of all time.
00:01:35
>> Yeah, she goes down as probably the goat
00:01:37
um in New Zealand women's cricket. So
00:01:40
yeah, her record's outstanding and she's
00:01:42
she's seen in New Zealand as um one of
00:01:44
the best cricketers we've ever had.
00:01:46
>> Amazing. So I've got Susie Bates now.
00:01:48
I've got you Millie Ker.
00:01:49
>> I know. What a downgrade.
00:01:51
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that
00:01:53
at all. And there's um there's so much
00:01:55
to um discuss with you cuz you're such
00:01:57
an intriguing person. There's the
00:01:59
cricket and then there's the the whole
00:02:01
other stuff as well. Um cuz you've just
00:02:03
been very open and vulnerable and
00:02:05
transparent about your mental health
00:02:07
struggles. So, first of all, um how are
00:02:10
you today? You good? You bad? You
00:02:12
neutral?
00:02:12
>> Yeah, I'm good, actually. Um going good.
00:02:16
You know, it comes in waves and and
00:02:18
whatnot. And I think, you know, it's
00:02:20
been awesome to kind of create that
00:02:22
treading water series and speak about my
00:02:25
story and share other people's stories.
00:02:28
Um, I kind of thought like after that,
00:02:31
you've spoken about, I guess, your worst
00:02:33
times and then people assume you're all
00:02:36
good, but I just wanted to be honest and
00:02:39
open about how I was feeling. Um, and
00:02:42
it's not that I'm all good now. Well,
00:02:44
I'm in a great place now, but you know,
00:02:47
there's still bad days. There's still
00:02:49
times where I kind of do struggle. Um,
00:02:53
but I guess that's human and and that's
00:02:55
kind of part of it. Like depression, it
00:02:57
doesn't necessarily just go away. You
00:03:00
kind of learn strategies and coping
00:03:03
mechanism cop coping mechanisms and um
00:03:07
yeah, but I think since my experiences,
00:03:09
I've just appreciate life so much more.
00:03:12
or I have a better understanding of
00:03:14
myself. So, not that I ever want to feel
00:03:16
that way again. I'm grateful um that I
00:03:19
have been through what I've been through
00:03:21
and had that support network around me.
00:03:23
>> Yeah, we we'll get into that later on in
00:03:25
the podcast and um in as much or as
00:03:28
little detail as as what you want. Um
00:03:30
but yeah, I I I can relate to a lot of
00:03:33
it. I was thinking about on the drive
00:03:34
down today. And actually, this is
00:03:36
something I got from um the podcast I
00:03:37
did with um another good friend of
00:03:39
yours, uh Sophie Divine. Um with my own
00:03:43
mental health struggles, like I think
00:03:45
it's given me so much. Like it's made me
00:03:47
a more empathetic person. Um it's made
00:03:50
me more understanding of other people.
00:03:52
So even though it's it's [ __ ] [ __ ] to
00:03:54
go through that stuff, um there are like
00:03:57
pluses that you can see from it, right?
00:03:58
>> Yeah, definitely. Like it's cruel. Like
00:04:01
depression's cruel. M
00:04:03
>> um but it does give you perspective when
00:04:06
you kind of come out the other side and
00:04:08
you do learn a lot. I've always been a
00:04:10
real empath empath. So, uh ever since I
00:04:14
was young, so I've always kind of taken
00:04:17
on or felt other people's emotions and
00:04:19
being quite sensitive growing up. But
00:04:21
yeah, it definitely it definitely does
00:04:24
it does help you. It's kind of what they
00:04:26
say, you know, it makes you stronger, I
00:04:28
guess. Um it's like any setback it's you
00:04:30
know how you can move forward from that.
00:04:33
>> Yeah. It's funny though like how how it
00:04:35
just doesn't discriminate. You know like
00:04:36
your your sister who you're very close
00:04:38
with and she's in the mongoo with you at
00:04:40
the moment. So she had um a condition
00:04:43
called Bell's py when she was young.
00:04:44
She's got diagnosed with diabetes as
00:04:47
well. So on paper you'd think she's the
00:04:49
one that should have you know mental
00:04:51
health issues.
00:04:52
>> Yeah.
00:04:52
>> But it's just not how it works.
00:04:54
>> No it's not how it works. And it's crazy
00:04:56
how powerful your brain is. Um, it's
00:04:58
ridiculous and it doesn't discriminate.
00:05:01
And I think that's the thing, like I
00:05:03
always say, just be kind to people
00:05:05
because people have stories and you have
00:05:08
no idea what's going on in their life or
00:05:10
in their head. And you know, if you can
00:05:13
just be kind cuz you don't know what
00:05:15
could set someone off.
00:05:17
>> Yeah. You know, 10 10 years ago, if um
00:05:19
if someone said to me, "What do you want
00:05:21
to be?" Uh, or if someone told me I was
00:05:23
kind, I I'd like bristle at at the word.
00:05:26
I [ __ ] hated it. I didn't didn't I
00:05:28
didn't want to be seen as being like
00:05:30
kind. I just wanted to be like a savage
00:05:31
or funny or something. Um, now I'd take
00:05:34
it as the the biggest compliment.
00:05:36
>> So, I I agree. You never know what what
00:05:38
like what what path the pe people are on
00:05:40
or what journey people are going
00:05:41
through. So, I think a little kindness
00:05:43
goes a long way, eh?
00:05:44
>> Yeah. It's always time for the the
00:05:46
savage joke with your close mates are
00:05:48
there.
00:05:49
100% kind. You know, if you're kind, you
00:05:51
can give that joke to your mate.
00:05:53
>> Yeah, for sure. Okay, we'll we'll um
00:05:55
we'll park that to one side for a second
00:05:57
and we'll get back to some we'll do some
00:05:59
fun stuff and then we'll get back to
00:06:00
that later on. So, first of all, um go
00:06:03
back to um a very very young mele. What
00:06:07
What are your what are your earliest
00:06:08
memories?
00:06:09
>> Yeah. Um my childhood. I It's funny. I
00:06:13
think I had like I loved my childhood.
00:06:16
It was just we were outside all the time
00:06:18
playing sport, big family. Um, so kind
00:06:22
of like my cousins, some of my cousins
00:06:24
live with with us growing up and my
00:06:26
uncle and auntie and so it was always a
00:06:29
full house. Um, and yeah, just really
00:06:32
active and lots of friends, lots of
00:06:34
family. So love growing up. I
00:06:38
Yeah, I was always quite a chilled out
00:06:41
kid as well and always looked out for
00:06:44
other people as well. And I think a lot
00:06:47
of that I reckon stem from when I was
00:06:48
young. My mom had breast cancer and I
00:06:51
used to go every day um to the hospital
00:06:53
with her when she was going through
00:06:54
chemo.
00:06:55
>> So how old were you like three?
00:06:56
Threeish.
00:06:57
>> Yeah, about three. Um
00:06:59
>> what do you what can you remember much
00:07:00
about that? That's very young. Did you
00:07:02
know what was going on or you just
00:07:03
traping around with your mom?
00:07:04
>> No idea really. Um what was going on?
00:07:07
But I think speaking to people and from
00:07:10
things there's probably like I think
00:07:12
that's where my empathy came from as
00:07:14
well. seeing my mom. My mom wrote
00:07:16
letters I guess throughout that time.
00:07:18
And um she always apparently I always
00:07:22
said um when I started school even at
00:07:24
five or yeah 5 years old I said oh my
00:07:26
mom's still sick cuz she's got short
00:07:28
hair. So I just assume short hair means
00:07:31
you're sick. Um but
00:07:34
>> so cute.
00:07:35
>> And then like yeah Jess growing up Jess
00:07:38
was quite independent like
00:07:40
>> So what's the age gap with you two? two
00:07:43
and three years almost three years.
00:07:44
Okay.
00:07:45
>> Um but yeah, like I remember J's first
00:07:47
day of school, she was sweet as like get
00:07:49
me in there. I remember my first day of
00:07:51
school, I'm looking out the window as my
00:07:53
mom's leaving like crying and just and I
00:07:56
think I just didn't want to leave my
00:07:57
mom's side. And I think part of that too
00:08:00
is because
00:08:00
>> like a nurturing thing.
00:08:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Every day I kind of saw her
00:08:05
sick growing up and um but yeah, I love
00:08:10
my childhood. Um but I was always really
00:08:13
sensitive and aware of struggles around
00:08:17
us. Um
00:08:18
>> what like
00:08:19
>> I think just everyday type of struggles
00:08:23
but um I guess Jess growing up it was
00:08:28
like she did running and she was so
00:08:31
passionate about it and and really good
00:08:33
at it but you know she had bowels pausy
00:08:35
when she was young.
00:08:37
>> Yeah. So what does what does that mean
00:08:38
exactly? So half her face was paralyzed.
00:08:41
Um she was basically like a mini stroke
00:08:44
in her face and
00:08:45
>> you know she couldn't drink out of a
00:08:47
cup. She needed a straw. She like
00:08:49
couldn't close her eye um for a while.
00:08:52
She sleep in a little eye patch and um
00:08:55
yeah so she had that and then she had
00:08:57
type 1 diabetes. um you know my mom had
00:09:01
cancer and then it came back again when
00:09:03
I was about 18 and then my dad lost his
00:09:06
parents um within about 6 months of each
00:09:10
other. Um then my auntie my auntie got
00:09:15
quite sick um and with and mental health
00:09:20
problems and was an alcoholic. Um so
00:09:24
um yeah there was all of that happening
00:09:26
and I was young but I seemed to observe
00:09:28
a lot and and notice notice those
00:09:32
things. Um
00:09:34
and you know I just carried on doing
00:09:35
what I love playing sport with my
00:09:37
friends but I was always quite hyper
00:09:39
aware. Um and then I went kind of went
00:09:41
to college and suicide seemed to be a
00:09:45
common common theme around me. like my
00:09:47
my boyfriend at college, his dad had
00:09:50
committed suicide.
00:09:52
>> Not while we were together, but um I was
00:09:55
kind of one of the first p people he
00:09:57
opened up to about that and he actually
00:10:00
only found out at a young age. And then
00:10:02
I had a boy in my class
00:10:06
um who were in the same class for 5
00:10:09
years, wasn't my best mate or anything,
00:10:11
but um he had committed suicide as well
00:10:14
in year 13. And that
00:10:18
>> it was just it felt like it became a
00:10:21
normal word in my world. And then um in
00:10:25
2020, my best one of my best mates, Dan
00:10:28
Foy, who was on Treading Water, um which
00:10:31
was extremely brave of him to want to be
00:10:33
a part of it, his younger brother had
00:10:36
committed suicide. And yeah, it just
00:10:39
became
00:10:40
normal. And I think because I'm such a
00:10:42
deep thinker and I'm an empath,
00:10:45
>> it just
00:10:47
I just wasn't I just was in this world
00:10:50
and I just think I saw a lot happening
00:10:54
around me.
00:10:55
>> It's funny. Yeah, cuz I suppose you
00:10:57
could there's two ways of sort of
00:10:58
looking at it when you're exposed to I
00:11:00
suppose that much um suicide like on on
00:11:04
the one perspective you could go okay
00:11:06
well you know this this is a it's it's a
00:11:08
way out and it's a it's it's an option
00:11:10
that we've all got open to us that we
00:11:11
can explore if things get really bad but
00:11:14
then on the flip side of that you can go
00:11:16
um
00:11:17
>> like you realize um for the for the
00:11:20
person that's taking their own life
00:11:21
their pain stops but but it doesn't go
00:11:23
away it gets transferred to everyone
00:11:24
around them like the the ripple effect
00:11:26
of anyone, you know, people that
00:11:28
obviously feel there's the world's going
00:11:30
to be better place without them, but the
00:11:31
the impact it leaves and the hole it
00:11:33
leaves, it's just the magnitude is
00:11:35
massive, eh?
00:11:35
>> Yeah. It's even the whole community like
00:11:38
>> it's even the people that don't know the
00:11:40
person, it just affects a community.
00:11:42
>> Um, and yeah, it's it's so sad. Like
00:11:46
it's
00:11:47
>> Oh, it is. It's it's one of the saddest
00:11:50
things imaginable. Yeah.
00:11:51
>> So that's um so that's young Amelia Kur
00:11:53
and then um so cricket was cricket was
00:11:56
always part of your life. So your
00:11:57
parents but were both pretty good
00:11:58
>> cricketers. Yeah. So both my parents
00:12:00
played for Wellington. Dad played indoor
00:12:03
cricket for New Zealand. He captain
00:12:05
them. And then my papa played for the
00:12:07
Black Caps. Um
00:12:09
>> and
00:12:10
>> Yeah, that's right. On on your mom's
00:12:11
side.
00:12:12
>> Yeah.
00:12:12
>> Yeah.
00:12:13
>> So our mom's my mom's side's big. like
00:12:16
all the cousins are close and we just
00:12:18
grew up in the backyard. I played with
00:12:22
uh my cousins and and then mates so I
00:12:24
played boys cricket growing up till I
00:12:27
was 18. Um so yeah
00:12:30
>> I like in boys teams.
00:12:31
>> Yeah. Yeah. And loved it.
00:12:33
>> Yeah. As I I mean she she's um quite a
00:12:35
bit older than you but um another girl
00:12:37
from Tower Sophie Divine had her on the
00:12:38
podcast and she had the same sort of
00:12:40
experience. Did you um Yeah. What sort
00:12:43
of negativity or backlash can you recall
00:12:45
from that? like playing boys teams like
00:12:46
was there anything like a
00:12:48
>> I had um I had none. I think because I'd
00:12:51
played boys cricket since I was 5 years
00:12:53
old through to 18 you kind of played the
00:12:56
same guys throughout. So it's almost
00:12:59
just like you were you were one of them.
00:13:02
>> Um you know I captained uh the boys
00:13:05
teams I played in when we got older as
00:13:07
well. So yeah it was just normal. It was
00:13:10
it was my normal and it was actually the
00:13:13
normal as well. It was more when we like
00:13:15
went up north to Hastings cricket camp
00:13:18
and you'd play teams, boys teams that
00:13:20
had never played against a girl and they
00:13:22
like this is weird and try sledge you
00:13:25
and whatnot. What age?
00:13:28
>> About 12.
00:13:31
Can you can you recall what sledging
00:13:33
they come out with at 12?
00:13:34
>> That's not good sledging. It's like mate
00:13:36
grow up.
00:13:39
So you're just ah you're hopeless but no
00:13:45
it was it was good fun. So yeah big
00:13:47
family big group of family friends
00:13:49
really close still close with them all
00:13:51
today. Yeah.
00:13:52
>> Um yeah active active lifestyle
00:13:55
>> and then is did you show like sort of
00:13:58
promise or talent as a young player or
00:14:02
>> I think so. Yeah I yeah I so I play I
00:14:05
played a lot of sports growing up. um
00:14:07
cricket, football, athletics and cross
00:14:10
country and then like intermediate
00:14:11
played a little bit of basketball and
00:14:13
rugby sevens and and whatnot, but
00:14:15
cricket was kind of always the passion
00:14:18
and what I wanted to do. But it wasn't
00:14:20
until I had watched the White Fins play
00:14:22
on TV and I was like, that's what I want
00:14:26
to be. And that was about at 9 years
00:14:28
old. And then I remember um I wasn't
00:14:32
scoring heaps of runs on Saturdays and
00:14:35
I'm I'm a perfectionist and I I
00:14:40
Yeah. So that's also a little bit of
00:14:42
probably like mental health stuff is I
00:14:44
had to be a certain way for everyone
00:14:46
else. I had to be perfect. Everything I
00:14:48
had to do do had to be perfect for
00:14:50
everyone around me. Everyone expected me
00:14:52
to be this certain way. But to a degree
00:14:56
it has helped my training.
00:14:58
>> Um,
00:14:59
>> like I'm I'm the same. It's [ __ ]
00:15:01
exhausting. E, it's annoying.
00:15:02
>> It can get tiring.
00:15:03
>> But yeah, in some ways I think Well,
00:15:05
it's a it's a superpower in a way.
00:15:07
>> Yeah, it can help you.
00:15:08
>> But it's exhausting.
00:15:10
>> Yeah. And
00:15:11
>> are you like that with everything or is
00:15:12
it like can you I know you've got into
00:15:15
We'll get into your resilience plan and
00:15:17
your mental health strategy, but I've
00:15:18
read you're into photography now and
00:15:20
playing the guitar. Can you do things
00:15:22
just for fun and not have to be good at
00:15:24
them?
00:15:24
>> I can do things for fun and and
00:15:28
not have to be good at them, but if I'm
00:15:31
like if I'm going to do something, I
00:15:32
want to do it well.
00:15:34
>> So, but I know I'm not going to be I'm
00:15:37
not going to be the best at everything,
00:15:39
but like if we're doing something and
00:15:40
there's a challenge, I want to win. So,
00:15:43
so
00:15:44
>> you're a punish. So there's there's
00:15:47
there's somewhat there's somewhat of I
00:15:49
can just go and out and enjoy myself,
00:15:51
but I do like doing things well. Um but
00:15:55
yeah, I remember when I was young, I
00:15:56
wasn't scoring runs um on a on a
00:15:59
Saturday and I was like to my dad like
00:16:02
why why am I not scoring runs? I'm not
00:16:05
that good. And then I I think it came
00:16:08
from my parents like they both work
00:16:09
really hard and I thought if you want to
00:16:11
be good at anything in life, you have to
00:16:13
work hard for it. So then I saw that
00:16:16
game when I was nine watching the White
00:16:17
Ferns was like right I need to go to the
00:16:19
Nets before school and team trainings
00:16:23
aren't enough. So a bit at about 9 or 10
00:16:27
dad and I would go to the local nets uh
00:16:29
before primary school started and I'd
00:16:32
bat with him and pretend I was a white
00:16:34
fern batting with Sophie and Suzie and
00:16:37
then I'd bowl pretending I was bowling
00:16:39
at you know the Aussie women's team that
00:16:40
I play against now. I've got goosebumps
00:16:42
hearing the story. Like your your
00:16:44
friends and teammates with them now. The
00:16:46
fact that you are that age and they're
00:16:48
still playing and they had an impact on
00:16:50
you as a nine-year-old girl. It's
00:16:51
>> bonkers.
00:16:52
>> It is. And it's funny like I remember um
00:16:56
with dad we'd like do a scenario and
00:16:58
play play like it was a game and I'd get
00:17:01
him to commentate and then like if I got
00:17:03
a 50 I'd raise my bat but as soon as
00:17:06
cars drove past or if there was someone
00:17:07
out someone else in the nets I'd walk up
00:17:10
to dad and be like don't COMMENTATE
00:17:15
>> your poor dad.
00:17:16
>> I know I was like we got to be quiet
00:17:18
while there's other people here not
00:17:20
raising my bat today. But I just
00:17:21
visualized like I was batting in front
00:17:24
of a full crowd, you know.
00:17:27
>> It was funny, man.
00:17:28
>> Well, how um I'm I'm just curious. So So
00:17:31
you're 22 now.
00:17:33
>> Yeah.
00:17:33
>> So
00:17:34
>> So it was 13 years ago that you were
00:17:36
nine and you were watching the White F
00:17:38
how how were you watching the White
00:17:39
Fence on TV? Was it even televised?
00:17:41
>> It was like there was one game that was
00:17:43
televised that I watched. Um, and I'd
00:17:46
been to a couple home matches,
00:17:48
>> so I'd seen a handful of games, but I
00:17:50
knew the players.
00:17:51
>> Um, because I'd watched the Wellington
00:17:53
Blaze play as well, so they'd played
00:17:56
like, you know, I'd see Sophie play and
00:17:57
then they play Otago, see Susie play.
00:18:00
But yeah, that's I guess how I knew, but
00:18:02
it was there was one game on TV that I
00:18:04
remember vividly. It's so cool that
00:18:06
you've um you've got these memories and
00:18:09
these role models that are that are now
00:18:11
your friends because it's I mean it
00:18:14
would have been just as easy or even
00:18:15
it's easier for your role models to be
00:18:18
like I don't know like Martin Guptal or
00:18:20
Kane Williamson or you know whoever was
00:18:22
big in the men's game at the time.
00:18:24
>> Yeah, there was definitely men's players
00:18:25
too I looked up to. But yeah, I was
00:18:28
fortunate that I got those one or two
00:18:32
games I watched on TV to have those role
00:18:35
models. Um, which now, you know, it's
00:18:38
televised more, so you can have those
00:18:40
role models, but I probably only got to
00:18:41
watch because I come from a cricketing
00:18:43
family and my dad would have known that
00:18:45
they were playing on TV. Otherwise,
00:18:47
>> yeah, you know,
00:18:48
>> you'd have no idea.
00:18:49
>> Yeah. So if I mean if you're around long
00:18:51
enough there's every likelihood that
00:18:53
there's going to be some 9-year-old kid
00:18:54
now that's at the nets with her dad dad
00:18:57
commentating maybe
00:18:59
>> being you. Yeah, and that's the cool
00:19:02
thing and I think that's now like when
00:19:04
you're signing kids stuff after games
00:19:06
and whatnot, it's taking the time. Um,
00:19:09
but also when you chat to them and they
00:19:12
tell you they love cricket and whatnot,
00:19:14
you say, "Oh, I'll be playing with you
00:19:16
in 5 10 years time and their face just
00:19:18
like lights up."
00:19:20
>> But that's, you know, that
00:19:22
>> I was at the Nets and saw Sophie and
00:19:24
Susie and they said that that's what
00:19:26
happened to me as a dream come true.
00:19:29
>> That's amazing. And then and then you um
00:19:31
you play rep cricket for Wellington when
00:19:33
you're what like 13 or 14?
00:19:34
>> Yeah, 14. 14.
00:19:36
>> That's crazy.
00:19:37
>> Yeah, I looked pretty small then.
00:19:39
>> That is that is nuts. So So it's What
00:19:43
was the average age of the team? They
00:19:44
all women.
00:19:45
>> Yeah. Yeah. I was the youngest by a wee
00:19:48
while. Um yeah, probably range from 14
00:19:51
to 30 odd.
00:19:53
>> Right. So, who So, who do you talk to in
00:19:55
the team? Do they do they all feel like
00:19:57
aunties or
00:19:58
>> um I was so shy, so nervous. Not nervous
00:20:03
to play, but nervous to be around
00:20:08
people that what am I going to talk to
00:20:10
them about? So, I
00:20:12
>> Well, I think that's a very reasonable
00:20:13
fear as well. Like, what have you got in
00:20:15
common? Absolutely nothing apart from
00:20:17
cricket.
00:20:17
>> Yeah. So, I actually found probably that
00:20:20
first year quite hard. I love the
00:20:22
onfield stuff. Um the onfield stuff was
00:20:26
awesome because I just wanted to play
00:20:27
cricket and loved it. But yeah, it was
00:20:29
hard because I just felt like I was
00:20:33
nervous and shy. I had a really nice
00:20:37
roommate um Alex Evans who doesn't play
00:20:40
anymore but she was older um an older
00:20:44
one in the team and she just took like
00:20:48
took me in looked after me like I was a
00:20:50
kid so
00:20:52
>> how old was she at the time?
00:20:53
>> She would have been
00:20:54
>> late 20s.
00:20:55
>> Yeah, mid late 20s. So, and she just
00:20:57
took me in and looked after me. And
00:21:00
>> yeah, I always remembered that as I kind
00:21:03
of thought that's what I want to be like
00:21:06
when I'm older and young. There's a
00:21:08
young girl coming into the team cuz it's
00:21:10
scary.
00:21:11
>> Yeah. But you weren't you weren't scared
00:21:13
or anxious or nervous about the onfield
00:21:15
stuff? You were fine with that?
00:21:17
>> Yeah, fine with that. I
00:21:18
>> Isn't that funny?
00:21:19
>> Yeah. I um
00:21:20
>> there's a there's a saying that um youth
00:21:22
is wasted on the young.
00:21:23
>> Yeah.
00:21:23
>> It's like you just have no sort of fear,
00:21:25
do you? No fear. But I think even now I
00:21:28
don't really get nervous at all playing
00:21:30
cricket. Um you know there's moments
00:21:32
where you get a little bit nervous but
00:21:34
I've always been very calm and I just
00:21:38
love it so much. And I think because I
00:21:40
love it that you know there's nothing
00:21:42
else I'd rather be doing. So I'm just
00:21:45
playing the game I love and if I prepare
00:21:47
well I trust that. So I've never really
00:21:50
got nervous and it's just about going
00:21:52
out and enjoying myself. But yeah,
00:21:55
there's definitely moments that you do
00:21:56
get nervous too.
00:21:58
>> And and so that age when you're when
00:22:00
you're 14 and you're playing in the uh
00:22:02
the Wellington rep team, if you have a
00:22:04
like a bad innings and I don't know if
00:22:06
you ever got a duck or anything, but how
00:22:08
did you cope with that emotionally? You
00:22:10
sort of Susie B told me a story like she
00:22:13
she'd go to the toilets and have a
00:22:14
little cry afterwards. She
00:22:16
>> still does she does she
00:22:18
>> on a bad bad day. It's very rare now.
00:22:21
It's very rare. She won't like me saying
00:22:22
that. Um, I have been very lucky with
00:22:27
the family I've grown up up in and like
00:22:29
sport is amazing. It teaches you so many
00:22:32
lessons I think. Um, but I think I've
00:22:34
learned a lot of that through my family.
00:22:36
And I remember when I was young, my dad
00:22:39
said to me, if I turn up to the ground
00:22:41
and you're walking off the field and I
00:22:44
haven't watched a single ball, I don't
00:22:45
want to know if you've got a duck or a
00:22:47
hundred. So that's kind of been my
00:22:49
thing. like if I get out, yes, I wish
00:22:53
I'm still batting and whatnot, but I
00:22:54
can't change it. So, that's kind of my
00:22:57
thing, like if I can keep my body body
00:23:00
language good, go back, sit back with
00:23:02
the team, and then pro I'll process it
00:23:04
later. Um, and whatnot. But, yeah, I
00:23:07
think that was a great message from my
00:23:09
dad that it was like, yeah, duck or 100,
00:23:12
I don't want to know. And I think with
00:23:14
cricket being such a fickle game, like
00:23:16
if you get too high on the good stuff
00:23:18
and too low on the bad stuff, it's going
00:23:20
to be a bloody tough sport because
00:23:22
>> Yeah.
00:23:22
>> You know, there's so many variables.
00:23:24
>> Yeah. And you're going to ride the highs
00:23:26
and lows, aren't you?
00:23:27
>> Yeah. I think like through my career,
00:23:30
I've been quite lucky in that I think
00:23:33
that messaging, but I've been very level
00:23:36
throughout my cricketing career. And
00:23:38
it's a little bit like perspective. I
00:23:40
think like at the end of the day it is
00:23:42
just a game but I get you put so much
00:23:45
work into it like when it when it
00:23:47
doesn't come off it it's tough when the
00:23:49
team loses it's tough but it is trying
00:23:52
to be as level as possible and um but
00:23:55
yeah I think there's tough moments and
00:23:58
you know world cups have been tough I
00:23:59
think for our group and that's probably
00:24:01
where the lows hit uh most of the time
00:24:04
is we've underperformed and as a team
00:24:07
and that's that's been tough but yeah I
00:24:09
think staying level in sport,
00:24:12
>> but like the um where things are at now,
00:24:14
especially with all these like sort of
00:24:16
short short stint competitions that you
00:24:19
do. Like you've just recently been in
00:24:20
the UK for this one, what's it called?
00:24:21
The 100.
00:24:22
>> Yeah,
00:24:23
>> it's 100 balls.
00:24:24
>> Yeah. 100 balls.
00:24:25
>> So, you get paid a lot of money to be
00:24:26
part of this franchise for a very short
00:24:28
tournament. Um do you feel guilty if you
00:24:31
don't play well?
00:24:33
>> It's a good question. I guess that's
00:24:35
like some somewhat and the you do want
00:24:39
to play well. It's like they have picked
00:24:42
me and they're paying me to perform. So,
00:24:45
but I guess also it's like in
00:24:47
>> it's the sport though, isn't it?
00:24:48
>> It's the sport and it's a job like
00:24:51
>> you know if you're bad at your job you
00:24:53
could get fired and it's the same for
00:24:55
us. Um the only thing is with sport like
00:24:58
the margins and the you can see it right
00:25:02
in front of you. the numbers are right
00:25:03
there so you know when you've had a bad
00:25:05
day, you know when you've had a good
00:25:07
day.
00:25:07
>> But
00:25:08
>> yeah, there's no hiding, is there?
00:25:10
>> There's Yeah, there's no hiding. But I
00:25:12
guess like for me, every time I play
00:25:15
batting, bowling, fielding, I just want
00:25:17
to contribute. I want to do the best I
00:25:19
can in all three. And that's that's the
00:25:21
thing. And I think I'm lucky too as an
00:25:23
allrounder. Um that, you know, if I fail
00:25:26
batting, I can still make a difference
00:25:28
for the team with my bowling or in the
00:25:30
or in the field. Um, and then the things
00:25:33
that people don't see is the impact you
00:25:35
can have off the field. Um, which in
00:25:38
those leagues I think is extremely
00:25:40
valuable when you're bringing people in,
00:25:42
when you're bringing leaders in from
00:25:44
around the world. You can have a real
00:25:45
impact on the group also.
00:25:47
>> Yeah. And as so you make the New Zealand
00:25:50
team when you were 16.
00:25:52
>> Yeah.
00:25:53
>> [ __ ] Can you remember that?
00:25:55
>> But were you in was it a surprise or
00:25:57
were you sort of on the Yeah. Yeah. Was
00:25:59
there like quite a bit of heat around
00:26:00
you at the time? Were you in the
00:26:02
selectors, you know, like radar or frame
00:26:05
of reference?
00:26:06
>> Yeah, I think it was well was a real
00:26:09
surprise to me. Um, I had I reckon a
00:26:13
year before that. So there was a world
00:26:15
cup I made my debut in 2016 and then
00:26:18
there was a 50 over world cup in England
00:26:20
in 2017 and about the year before I made
00:26:23
the white ferns I had a I didn't have a
00:26:27
coffee but I had a coffee with my dad
00:26:29
and
00:26:30
um we spoke about the white ferns and
00:26:33
about that world cup and I was like that
00:26:35
would be cool to play in that and dad
00:26:37
was like you probably won't make it. So
00:26:40
you were 15 at the
00:26:41
>> Yeah, 15. He's like, "It'd be very
00:26:43
unlikely
00:26:45
for you to make it, but you might get
00:26:47
picked like he's like, "But you could if
00:26:49
you go really well, you could get picked
00:26:51
as the 15th player and they take you for
00:26:53
like
00:26:54
>> just sort of bleed you future tournament
00:26:56
>> for the future." Yeah.
00:26:57
>> And then I made my debut for the White
00:27:00
Fins in 2016, which did not think at all
00:27:03
that was going to happen. uh played in
00:27:06
played in that series against Pakistan
00:27:08
at home and then went to Aussie. We
00:27:11
played Aussie and then we played Aussie
00:27:13
at home in a Rose Bowl and I played all
00:27:16
those games. Um and then they had picked
00:27:19
the World Cup team, got in that went to
00:27:23
England and ended up playing every
00:27:25
single game over there. So, it was
00:27:27
amazing how like two years before that,
00:27:29
it was kind of like uh there's a 10%
00:27:32
chance you'll get picked as that 15th
00:27:35
member in the squad to going to playing
00:27:37
every game. And I just Yeah, I just I
00:27:40
got that opportunity when I was 16 and
00:27:44
yeah, I think again I had people that
00:27:47
backed me and that always helps.
00:27:49
>> Like who? I guess well my family but the
00:27:53
coach to pick me at 16 and play me
00:27:58
>> and the people in the team as well like
00:28:00
I felt like they weren't like oh you
00:28:03
shouldn't be here
00:28:06
piss off kid
00:28:06
>> like they weren't like
00:28:07
>> who's got your daughter on
00:28:09
>> yeah we're not babysitting
00:28:13
>> so
00:28:15
>> take your ticked off somewhere else
00:28:17
>> yeah I just you know when you um might
00:28:21
enter a job or an environment and you
00:28:24
feel like you have to prove yourself
00:28:25
first and I definitely have felt that in
00:28:29
my career but I felt like
00:28:31
>> I feel like anyone anyone in a sort of
00:28:33
team environment a high performance team
00:28:35
environments probably has to do that
00:28:36
every step of the way right
00:28:37
>> yeah you feel like you prove yourself
00:28:40
>> but yeah sometimes you can put too much
00:28:42
pressure on yourself and it doesn't get
00:28:43
the best out of you some people it gets
00:28:46
the best out of them but
00:28:47
>> yeah I just I was really backed And
00:28:49
Susie was captain at the time and she
00:28:52
just she trusted me cuz I for a young
00:28:55
cricket I thought about the game. I
00:28:56
loved it. I tactically thought about the
00:28:59
game. Um so I was quite confident in
00:29:02
knowing what I wanted to do and what
00:29:04
type of player I was at that time. Um
00:29:08
and yeah, she just trusted me and I
00:29:10
loved training. So I competed hard and
00:29:14
when I was in the nets too with the
00:29:16
White Ferns like for me I wanted to
00:29:18
play. So I was like, I got to give
00:29:20
everything in training like you got to
00:29:22
be again the best you can be to make
00:29:26
sure you get on that park. Um, and it
00:29:29
was kind of like, yeah, just the
00:29:31
mentality I had probably from a young
00:29:33
age to just not much fazed me with not
00:29:36
getting nervous and whatnot. And I just
00:29:38
wanted to be out there. I I wanted to be
00:29:40
that person in those moments. It was
00:29:43
like me at the Nets with my dad
00:29:45
commentating and I'd go to school and
00:29:47
would do creative writing and I'd talk
00:29:49
about hitting the winning runs in a
00:29:51
World Cup final and and all of that. It
00:29:53
was just like I dreamt it.
00:29:55
>> Yeah, it's almost like visualizing it or
00:29:57
manifesting it or something.
00:29:58
>> Yeah, it is kind of like manifesting and
00:30:01
Yeah, it is.
00:30:03
>> Yeah. And vis vis vis well I can't speak
00:30:06
>> visualization. Yes, that's the word.
00:30:08
>> Yeah. Um
00:30:08
>> it's crazy. And so, and it was around
00:30:10
this time, so I think when you were 17,
00:30:12
you were playing um Ireland and you got
00:30:15
232 232 runs not out,
00:30:18
>> which is [ __ ] insane. But I've seen
00:30:20
video footage of that. It looks like
00:30:21
it's on like a school field or
00:30:23
something.
00:30:23
>> It was on a club ground,
00:30:25
>> right? There's houses in the background.
00:30:27
>> Houses in the back. It's just that old
00:30:29
Irish Irish kind of kind of ground. It
00:30:32
was a cool little ground, but yeah, it's
00:30:34
amazing now where we're playing from
00:30:36
where it where it's come. But yeah.
00:30:37
>> Yeah, it is. It's it's remarkable.
00:30:40
>> Like so that's like 5 years ago and um
00:30:43
so it's such a short passage of time but
00:30:46
so much has changed.
00:30:47
>> Yeah. Ridiculous amount.
00:30:48
>> Yeah. Like the footage I've seen looks
00:30:50
like it's recorded on someone's handicam
00:30:52
phone or something.
00:30:53
>> I think it was.
00:30:54
>> So
00:30:55
>> So what what are your rec recollections
00:30:56
of that? Was it just a just a day or a
00:30:59
game where just everything went right?
00:31:01
You're in that flow state? What
00:31:03
happened?
00:31:03
>> I think so. So I wasn't It's like people
00:31:06
like what are you thinking about? Well,
00:31:08
I wasn't thinking. And I think that
00:31:10
sometimes when you're in your best form
00:31:13
as a batter and in cricket, you just are
00:31:16
so your mind's so clear. Um, but yeah, I
00:31:21
started my career as a bowler, but I
00:31:23
always batted growing up and always have
00:31:26
been pretty technically technically good
00:31:28
and it was kind of a strength thing with
00:31:30
batting and um yeah, I got the
00:31:33
opportunity to open the batting that
00:31:34
game and I didn't bat much for New
00:31:36
Zealand. Um, so I just wanted to kind of
00:31:38
make the most of it and I've been
00:31:41
working really hard on my betting and
00:31:43
yeah, it just, you know, had a bit of
00:31:46
luck along the way, but things just kind
00:31:48
of fell into place and it was just
00:31:51
playing, I guess, a strength
00:31:52
strength-based approach, playing my
00:31:54
game, but not premeditating, not
00:31:56
overthinking. And yeah, it's everyone
00:32:00
asks about it and I don't really know
00:32:02
what to say ever, but I think it was
00:32:05
just I loved batting and I wasn't a
00:32:08
batter at that point in my career.
00:32:10
>> Um, and I wasn't after that either, but
00:32:13
I just wanted to make the most of that
00:32:15
opportunity.
00:32:15
>> Yeah. 232 not out. It's insane. It's
00:32:18
crazy, eh?
00:32:19
>> Yeah. I mean,
00:32:20
>> you you look back now, you're still in
00:32:22
the in the early stages of your career,
00:32:24
but you're an established player. Like
00:32:26
you you look back now and what do you
00:32:27
think? Like you're a you're a kid
00:32:29
basically. E
00:32:30
>> yeah. I mean I haven't thought about it
00:32:32
too much but yeah when you think when as
00:32:34
you get older and you think about it I
00:32:36
was 17
00:32:38
>> still in school and
00:32:41
>> yeah but it was yeah crazy day really.
00:32:44
And
00:32:44
>> and and you Oh and so the team went out
00:32:47
to celebrate afterwards and you you
00:32:48
couldn't even go to the go to the bar?
00:32:49
>> Yeah we all so they all had a drink in
00:32:51
we all we all had a drink in the bar
00:32:53
afterwards. Um,
00:32:54
>> what do you like like a raspberry and
00:32:56
lemonade?
00:32:57
>> Yeah, the classic raspberry and coke.
00:32:59
Um, but yeah, so the we had a team drink
00:33:02
in the bar. I was allowed in the bar
00:33:03
because someone could just say they're
00:33:04
my parents. Um, so yeah, it was nice.
00:33:09
Like the team celebrated it. They had a
00:33:11
drink for me and then, you know, Love
00:33:13
Island was on. So had to get back for
00:33:15
that because that was the show everyone
00:33:17
was watching.
00:33:17
>> Oh, was it was that the season with um
00:33:19
Tommy and Molly?
00:33:20
>> Yeah, it probably was, actually. Still
00:33:22
going strong.
00:33:23
>> Wow. And then did life change much after
00:33:25
that? I mean that's when you first came
00:33:27
onto my radar cuz I I read about it but
00:33:29
in in reflection now I mean it it would
00:33:32
have been a 30 secondond piece on the
00:33:33
news. Not the lead story
00:33:35
>> like if if Bowden Barrett had a
00:33:38
hamstring injury it would have been
00:33:39
ahead of that in the sports news that
00:33:41
night probably.
00:33:42
>> Yeah.
00:33:42
>> And a lot again a lot's changed in the
00:33:44
five years since then. But yeah. Did
00:33:46
much change for you?
00:33:48
>> I guess. Yeah. Well, nothing changed,
00:33:52
but
00:33:54
you know, there was media interviews. I
00:33:56
was annoyed because the like the next
00:33:58
day because I was a teenager while I was
00:34:00
sleeping in and tired after that day.
00:34:03
And then the media manager like, "So,
00:34:05
Breakfast TV want to talk to you. Can
00:34:07
you get up at 6 a.m." And I
00:34:14
So, yeah, there was there was more, I
00:34:17
guess, media around it. Um, even today,
00:34:21
every now and then, you still get asked
00:34:23
about it. So, it definitely you just get
00:34:25
asked about it and there was a lot of
00:34:27
media at the time,
00:34:28
>> but I didn't really see it or anything
00:34:31
cuz I was over in Ireland. Um, which I
00:34:34
think was good just to not be there to,
00:34:38
you know, to hear that hear that stuff.
00:34:40
Um,
00:34:41
>> and I don't go on social media too much
00:34:43
ever and look at
00:34:45
um
00:34:46
>> not getting high on your own supply.
00:34:48
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:49
>> Well, yeah. I mean, if because Yeah.
00:34:50
It's a it's a double-edged sword, isn't
00:34:52
it? So, if you if you if you're going to
00:34:53
do that and stuff Yeah. 100%. You got to
00:34:56
take the good with the bad.
00:34:57
>> Yeah. But, no, it it didn't change
00:34:59
anything, but I guess, you know, to a
00:35:02
degree it gave me somewhat a little bit
00:35:05
of confidence that I have a method that
00:35:07
I can score runs. But at that time, you
00:35:10
know, Ireland were a weaker weaker team
00:35:12
in the world and I wanted to be able to
00:35:14
do I wanted to be able to score runs
00:35:16
against the big nations and and and the
00:35:18
big countries and um so then almost
00:35:22
after that it became quite tough because
00:35:25
I wasn't an established batter at all. I
00:35:27
had won good innings or one or two good
00:35:29
innings and then I kind of got moved
00:35:32
around the order. Um, you know, I'd bat
00:35:36
six and then I'd fail and I'd be back
00:35:38
down at nine and then three games later
00:35:40
I'd be up at six again and I was just
00:35:43
like, I need to score runs every time I
00:35:46
back to state to keep my spot there. So,
00:35:48
I was getting picked as a bowler
00:35:50
regardless. But for me, I wanted to be
00:35:52
picked as an allrounder. And so then I
00:35:54
was like, no one thinks I'm good enough,
00:35:57
but I want to bat so badly. And it
00:36:00
wasn't until I probably trusted my game
00:36:03
and had um well Bob Carter was amazing
00:36:07
for my batting and
00:36:08
>> who's he? He was the uh last White
00:36:11
Fern's coach and he came in and he
00:36:13
batted me three and
00:36:15
>> that's probably where I had like a
00:36:17
breakout um series against India
00:36:21
>> and that just gave me a lot of
00:36:23
confidence that I'm good enough to be in
00:36:25
this position and I'm good enough to be
00:36:26
in this role and he gave me a lot of
00:36:29
confidence that you know he backed me he
00:36:31
was like you're good enough to be here
00:36:33
so I think that really helped um so it's
00:36:38
almost like I had that score, but then I
00:36:39
still felt like I had to keep proving
00:36:43
myself every time I batted.
00:36:46
>> Yeah. It's funny that, eh, that's how it
00:36:47
is. It's not like, "Yeah, I'm done now.
00:36:49
This is it. I'm set." Yeah. Every I
00:36:51
suppose every time you go out there, you
00:36:52
got to keep proving something. You got
00:36:53
something to prove every [ __ ] time.
00:36:55
>> Yeah.
00:36:56
>> It's exhausting.
00:36:57
>> Yeah, it can get
00:36:58
>> But how good Yeah, but you you didn't
00:37:01
I'll bring it up since you haven't in
00:37:02
that game. You got five wickets as well.
00:37:04
>> So, 232 runs not out in five wickets. I
00:37:07
don't care how weak you say the Irish
00:37:09
team is, it's still a phenomenal game.
00:37:11
>> Yeah, I mean it's never going to happen
00:37:13
for me again in my career. Um but yeah,
00:37:16
I was absolutely knackered after the
00:37:18
batting innings. Uh I'm not I don't hit
00:37:21
sixes like Sophie. Um so there's a bit
00:37:24
more running going on in my innings. So,
00:37:26
I done a fair few KS and uh had we sleep
00:37:30
between innings and then fielded that
00:37:33
first slip and got through the power
00:37:35
play and Susie goes merely warm up and
00:37:39
my body I'm knackered and then I w like
00:37:43
I had to bowl I was like Susie really
00:37:46
and then yeah
00:37:48
got five wickets. Um,
00:37:50
>> amazing.
00:37:51
>> Just hit tried to hit the stumps. But
00:37:53
yeah, it's just
00:37:55
>> And going back to school after that,
00:37:56
what was that like?
00:37:57
>> Did you have to have to make a speech at
00:37:59
the school assembly or anything? Did did
00:38:00
no one really care or did Yeah. Was it a
00:38:03
big deal?
00:38:04
>> I think my my principal loves sport. So,
00:38:07
um, but yeah, my friends at my school
00:38:10
friends that weren't in sport knew
00:38:12
nothing about cricket. So, it's quite
00:38:14
nice. So you come home and they have no
00:38:16
idea or like they'd see and they'll be
00:38:18
like that's cool.
00:38:20
>> Yeah.
00:38:21
>> Cricket's Yeah. It's quite a polarizing
00:38:23
sport. Like I I really love cricket but
00:38:24
I I can't think of many of my girl mates
00:38:26
that have any interest at all.
00:38:30
>> Yeah. So it was quite nice for me. Like
00:38:32
I just went back to school and was a
00:38:33
teenager again like I was just a kid and
00:38:37
yeah I didn't like being asked about
00:38:40
cricket from my school friends as well.
00:38:42
I just wanted to be a kid.
00:38:44
>> Yeah.
00:38:45
>> Um, and that was important, you know,
00:38:48
like you'd get mentioned in school
00:38:49
assemblies and stuff and
00:38:52
>> and all of that, but I had this thing
00:38:53
growing up, too, which is funny. It's I
00:38:55
think it's a little bit like that New
00:38:57
Zealand tall poppy syndrome, but
00:39:00
>> you know, I'd get a principal's award or
00:39:03
go up for something at prize giving and
00:39:05
I just would go up straight face and
00:39:07
look real like sad or angry because I
00:39:10
thought if you smiled you looked
00:39:12
arrogant.
00:39:14
So, so you'd get like an award and shake
00:39:17
their hand and you just be like
00:39:19
nothing. It's it's almost like the thing
00:39:22
your dad told you like I don't want to
00:39:23
know if you won an award or lost an
00:39:25
award
00:39:25
>> or not. I'm just like dead pan but it's
00:39:28
almost looks like I'm annoyed to get you
00:39:30
know so but it's funny that I just
00:39:34
thought you know like if you smile or
00:39:37
whatnot it then you look happy to
00:39:40
receive it and then you're arrogant
00:39:43
>> which is actually not the case but when
00:39:46
I was about 12 that's what I thought.
00:39:48
Yeah, that's so cute. That's funny. And
00:39:51
then when when did your sister make um
00:39:53
the team? She's older than you, but
00:39:55
she's she's not I get the feeling she's
00:39:57
not as passionate about cricket as what
00:39:58
you are. She she was like a 3,000 meter
00:40:00
runner for a while.
00:40:01
>> Yeah. Yeah. She loved her.
00:40:02
>> Distance to run. I love running. It's
00:40:04
terrible distance.
00:40:05
>> Yeah, she did that and uh 1500 m. Um but
00:40:09
yeah, so she loved her running and then
00:40:11
she's had injuries with her calves. Uh
00:40:14
she played cricket growing up, took a
00:40:16
break um from it. Didn't really like
00:40:18
cricket. Um
00:40:20
yeah, got bored as most people. That's
00:40:23
why they give up. You got to if if
00:40:25
you're going to play cricket, you've got
00:40:27
to love fielding. That's the key. But
00:40:29
yeah, so she then started playing for
00:40:32
Wellington again or got in the
00:40:33
Wellington squad when she was about 17,
00:40:36
18, but she always stayed in the game
00:40:39
through playing indoor cricket. Um, and
00:40:42
she had a couple really good years with
00:40:43
Wellington. And 2020 made a White Fern's
00:40:47
debut. So, she would have been about 23,
00:40:49
>> right?
00:40:50
>> Just turned 23, I think. Um, she's been
00:40:54
amazing for this group. Like,
00:40:55
>> has she? How so?
00:40:57
um she just has a point of difference in
00:41:00
women's cricket and swing bowling's been
00:41:02
so effective and we haven't had an in
00:41:05
swinger for a while and she's just come
00:41:07
in and done really well with the new
00:41:10
ball and
00:41:12
um I think she doesn't quite know how
00:41:15
good she is actually. Um, but yeah, it's
00:41:19
awesome to see Jess loving it and and
00:41:22
playing sport again because, you know,
00:41:25
it's tough for her not being able to
00:41:26
run. Um,
00:41:29
and it's great having family on tour. We
00:41:31
are like best mates, her and I. So,
00:41:34
>> yeah.
00:41:34
>> Well, did did she was she really good at
00:41:36
the running? Was she Did she really love
00:41:37
it?
00:41:37
>> She loved it.
00:41:38
>> Do you know what? Do you know you know
00:41:40
how there's people that don't know
00:41:41
anything about cricket? I don't know if
00:41:43
you know this, but what was her time?
00:41:44
What was her time? like 1500,500.
00:41:47
This one is about 12. She did a 454
00:41:51
or 456.
00:41:52
>> Wow.
00:41:53
>> And I'm pretty sure she held a
00:41:55
Wellington record for a 3K for like
00:41:57
school um like Wellington region.
00:42:00
>> She did like a 10 something.
00:42:03
>> No way.
00:42:04
>> [ __ ] that's insane.
00:42:05
>> She was moving
00:42:06
>> at like 12.
00:42:07
>> Uh 3K she would have been a bit older,
00:42:09
>> right? Wow. And it's such an
00:42:12
uncomfortable distance to run. Like you
00:42:13
just your lungs are burning from lap
00:42:15
number one.
00:42:16
>> Yeah. So yeah.
00:42:17
>> Awful. She's in a much better place now.
00:42:19
>> I know. Sport with everyone. You don't
00:42:23
need to go blow your lungs every day.
00:42:26
>> And um so the IPL you played um in um
00:42:30
India this year for the the Mumbai
00:42:32
Indians. Um how do you feel about that?
00:42:35
The money side of things with everyone
00:42:37
knowing you know your [ __ ]
00:42:39
>> Yeah. I mean it's a whole another world
00:42:41
over there. Um
00:42:43
>> cuz you you got sold for 192,000.
00:42:46
>> Yeah, 190 I think.
00:42:47
>> Do you if you don't want to talk about
00:42:49
the money side of things cuz it can can
00:42:50
be a bit crashed. That's totally cool.
00:42:52
But I' I'd be curious like how like how
00:42:55
much of that money do you actually see?
00:42:57
>> Yeah, that's like cuz it all all now
00:42:59
with these contracts your money is comes
00:43:02
out and it's in the thing. I think for
00:43:05
me like I leading into that auction I
00:43:10
was thinking oh it's could be tough if
00:43:12
you get sold for a lot of money because
00:43:16
everyone's going to see it and I just
00:43:18
think for me as like a 22year-old
00:43:21
I grew up in Tower and went to Tower
00:43:24
College is quite a diverse school um and
00:43:28
you've got mates as well it's like I
00:43:30
kind of you almost like feel guilty in a
00:43:34
way.
00:43:34
>> Yeah. Like success success guilt in a
00:43:36
way.
00:43:36
>> Yeah. Which is
00:43:38
>> and like there's
00:43:39
>> maybe part of that stems from and I mean
00:43:41
this is all internally from your side
00:43:43
but it's maybe it's tied up with that
00:43:45
tall poppy thing a bit as well.
00:43:47
>> Yeah. And there's like players that have
00:43:48
played before you that didn't play for
00:43:50
much. But I mean you got to look at it
00:43:52
as an it's an amazing opportunity now
00:43:54
for women's cricket. Young girls seeing
00:43:58
um seeing that like you can make a real
00:43:59
career out of this. And you know if
00:44:02
you're
00:44:02
>> that's incredible. It's not something to
00:44:03
be embarrassed about. It's [ __ ]
00:44:04
awesome.
00:44:05
>> Yeah. So, like obviously you'd rather it
00:44:07
not be shown to the media. Um,
00:44:10
>> but it's still kind of badass in a way.
00:44:12
It's amazing.
00:44:13
>> Yeah. But people see that and they're
00:44:15
like, "Shit, she's getting 190K, but you
00:44:19
lose about 40% of it." So,
00:44:21
>> yeah. So, it's 40% to say tax.
00:44:23
>> And then you got an agent to pay or like
00:44:26
to does someone get 15% 20% or
00:44:29
>> Yeah. for I don't have a agent that
00:44:32
takes my cricket contracts. They'll take
00:44:35
money from
00:44:37
>> deals they get me.
00:44:38
>> Oh, okay.
00:44:38
>> Um
00:44:39
>> Oh, how good. Okay. So, after tax,
00:44:42
you're still looking at like 100k or
00:44:44
something.
00:44:44
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:44
>> [ __ ] That's amazing.
00:44:45
>> Oh, it's still great, isn't it? But
00:44:46
>> that's incredible. So, are your parents
00:44:48
still uh teachers?
00:44:50
>> Um, no. So, all my aunties and uncles
00:44:53
are. Um my mom is actually with the New
00:44:59
Zealand Players Association. So she
00:45:02
works on basically life outside of
00:45:05
cricket with some of the men's domestic
00:45:07
teams. Uh wellbeing like P PD type of
00:45:11
stuff. Um and my dad
00:45:14
he he's
00:45:17
the director of Cricket Wellington uh
00:45:19
when I was about 10. My parents actually
00:45:22
bought Kelly Sports to New Zealand,
00:45:24
>> which was like sport for young kids.
00:45:26
>> What is it? I've never heard of it.
00:45:27
>> Um, this was ages ago, but uh, basically
00:45:32
just they run holiday programs, after
00:45:34
school care, and they would go into
00:45:37
primary schools and basically take PE
00:45:40
lessons, right,
00:45:41
>> for schools. Cuz I think when my sister
00:45:43
started school, mom and dad were shocked
00:45:45
at like how the basic
00:45:48
>> skills of catching a ball and whatnot
00:45:50
were just not there.
00:45:53
>> And there's this thing in Aussie, so
00:45:54
they bought it to New Zealand. Um,
00:45:56
>> you you and your sister never had a
00:45:57
chance with the
00:46:00
>> Yeah. Do you know it's funny because
00:46:01
when Jess was young, she like as soon as
00:46:05
she was walking, she had a ball in her
00:46:07
hand and like loves sport and I was just
00:46:09
a real chiller. Like I was just sit
00:46:12
there and like line up cars in a perfect
00:46:14
order, like a little bit OCD and just
00:46:17
had no interest. And my parents like,
00:46:19
"Oh yeah, Millie had no interest. She
00:46:21
got into sport quite late." I was like 5
00:46:23
years old.
00:46:24
>> She got into it late,
00:46:28
>> probably a normal age.
00:46:29
>> So um so so like the Indian money, what
00:46:32
have you done with that? Have you bought
00:46:33
a house or anything or
00:46:34
>> Yeah. You have? Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:36
>> [ __ ] that is so cool. So you So you
00:46:39
bought your first house at 22.
00:46:41
>> Yeah.
00:46:41
>> Insane.
00:46:42
>> Yeah. So no, it's pretty cool. And I'm
00:46:45
lucky again. Family. Um my dad's pretty
00:46:49
pretty wise, pretty smart. So um yeah,
00:46:52
he's helped me a lot. I think I had my
00:46:54
first White Fins contract at 16 and that
00:46:57
just got paid into my dad's account. So
00:47:01
and and just saved really. Um lucky I
00:47:04
trust my dad cuz he could have just run
00:47:06
away with it all.
00:47:08
You could you could do Yeah, maybe once
00:47:10
you get your career, you be like,
00:47:11
"Where's all the money?"
00:47:12
>> Yeah, we should go
00:47:13
>> one of those things.
00:47:14
>> But yeah, no, it's um it's cool and I
00:47:18
guess it allows you one to I guess do
00:47:22
the things you love um and and live a
00:47:25
good lifestyle, but also be able to give
00:47:27
back as well to people that have helped
00:47:30
you along the way and and do projects
00:47:33
that you're passionate about as well.
00:47:35
>> Yeah, for sure. um like water. So, it's
00:47:38
>> it's cool. And I think with that, it's
00:47:41
like it obviously allows you to do what
00:47:43
you love. It allows me to do my job
00:47:45
full-time.
00:47:46
>> Um
00:47:47
>> and and that's going to help me get the
00:47:49
best out of myself.
00:47:51
>> Yeah. And I feel like by the time you
00:47:52
get to the end of your curriculum
00:47:53
career, you'll be so um set up and
00:47:56
financially secure that you won't be
00:47:58
driven by money anymore. So, if you want
00:48:00
to go back and be a teachers's aid where
00:48:02
you you're you know you're dealing with
00:48:04
kids with behavioral issues or something
00:48:05
which is something you've done before,
00:48:07
you'll be able to do that and it won't
00:48:08
even be about the money. It'll just be
00:48:09
about you doing what sparks joy for you.
00:48:12
>> Yeah. Which is really cool. That's what
00:48:14
you want to do. Like you want to love
00:48:16
the work you do and you want to be
00:48:17
passionate about it. So, if I can do
00:48:19
that in the future, whatever that is,
00:48:21
that's that's that's what you want to
00:48:22
do. And you know, money's never been a
00:48:25
driver for me. Um, but it's just about
00:48:28
>> Give me some of it then.
00:48:31
>> It's a driver for me. I'll take some of
00:48:32
your So, um, so what's I've never been
00:48:35
to India. What's it like? Is it [ __ ]
00:48:36
insane?
00:48:37
>> Yeah.
00:48:37
>> It's very, very different to that game
00:48:39
we were talking about before where you,
00:48:40
you know, you're playing Ireland and
00:48:41
there's no one watching.
00:48:42
>> No one there. Yeah. Full stadiums, 50 to
00:48:45
80,000 people.
00:48:46
>> Um, and they love cricket.
00:48:49
>> So, yeah. Obsessed with it.
00:48:51
>> Yeah. It's a religion. is your um I I
00:48:55
checked I did some research on
00:48:56
Instagram. Your sister's got about say
00:48:58
15,000 followers. You're on like quarter
00:48:59
of a million. Did did that just explode
00:49:02
this year with the IPL thing? Was it
00:49:04
mainly
00:49:05
>> definitely did um when I went over to
00:49:07
India in like a exhibition match matches
00:49:10
for the IPL in 2019. So that's kind of
00:49:13
when it went up because previously to
00:49:16
then I had been private as well like cuz
00:49:19
I was like I'm still a kid. I just want
00:49:21
like my Instagram to be nothing about
00:49:26
cricket because I'm me. I'm not a
00:49:28
cricketer.
00:49:29
>> Um and then yeah went to India and it
00:49:32
and it went up and
00:49:34
they just love cricket. But I guess now
00:49:36
too there's more profile in New Zealand.
00:49:38
It's becoming bigger
00:49:40
>> in New Zealand and in Australia. I think
00:49:42
I've been playing for Brisbane since
00:49:44
2019 and like Aussie as well and and
00:49:48
there. So it it goes up. Yeah. India is
00:49:50
next level just
00:49:53
yeah they have they hire people to throw
00:49:56
you balls at the nets like they're not
00:49:58
even the coaches they just hire them to
00:50:00
come throw you balls
00:50:01
>> wow
00:50:02
>> so it's just
00:50:04
>> yeah next next level
00:50:06
>> that's crazy
00:50:07
>> yeah went to the house who basically
00:50:11
sponsor our own our team 24tory house
00:50:16
didn't see it all
00:50:17
>> 24tory house
00:50:18
>> yeah 24tory stories.
00:50:21
>> They got they got Creed 3 for us before
00:50:24
it was out and we watched it in their
00:50:25
movie cinema.
00:50:27
>> What floor was that on the house?
00:50:29
>> Second floor. Now
00:50:30
>> had a popcorn machine like they were
00:50:33
just Yeah, they're actually very nice
00:50:35
and and down to earth and um they give a
00:50:38
lot back. They obviously
00:50:41
have too much money but they do a lot of
00:50:43
good with it which is cool. But yeah,
00:50:45
next level.
00:50:47
>> But it's quite like the contrast over
00:50:49
there, you know, you've got these
00:50:51
mansions there and then you've got the
00:50:52
slums there.
00:50:53
>> Yeah, it's it's crazy, isn't it? The
00:50:55
justosition between the halves and the
00:50:57
have nots. Yeah, it's crazy. It's
00:50:59
ridiculous.
00:50:59
>> Um, so is your is your um DM's just full
00:51:03
of like Indian d Indian.
00:51:06
>> I I haven't really looked at them, but I
00:51:08
think you get a few like marriage
00:51:10
proposals and whatnot. So, um I haven't
00:51:14
said yes to any yet.
00:51:16
>> Oh, there's always time. There's always
00:51:18
>> there's always time, you know. You never
00:51:20
know.
00:51:20
>> Um and what about um are you
00:51:22
superstitious or you have any like
00:51:24
pregame routines or any any like must
00:51:26
dos or like processes?
00:51:28
>> Yeah, I used to be really superstitious
00:51:30
when I was a kid. I've chilled out a
00:51:33
little bit now. Um I always put my left
00:51:35
pad on first and my left left glove. I
00:51:38
have the same like routine like batting
00:51:40
routine like two taps and whatnot. Um
00:51:43
but that's about it really.
00:51:46
>> Yeah, that's
00:51:47
>> So you're not an overinker?
00:51:50
>> No, I'm not an overthinker of sport. I'm
00:51:52
an overthinker of life.
00:51:53
>> Yeah, actually that's probably a good
00:51:55
transition time. We'll get into that
00:51:56
now. So um yeah, July July 2020. That's
00:51:59
when can you I don't know if you want
00:52:03
how like we can get into this in as as
00:52:05
much or as little information as you
00:52:06
want cuz I I mean dragging this [ __ ]
00:52:08
back up I know it's never never nice and
00:52:10
never easy but what was what was going
00:52:12
on then July 2020.
00:52:14
>> Yeah. 2020 um
00:52:17
was when was it?
00:52:20
So that's kind of when CO started,
00:52:22
didn't it?
00:52:23
>> Pandemic time. Yeah.
00:52:24
>> Yeah. Um, so that's when my friend's
00:52:28
brother committed suicide that year. Um,
00:52:33
and then obviously like the lock I loved
00:52:37
lockdown cuz I felt like the world
00:52:39
stopped around me and I felt like we
00:52:42
were like at peace. And I know it was
00:52:45
horrible for some people and I had a
00:52:47
good household, but um
00:52:51
I guess I keep busy and whatnot, but I
00:52:54
just felt like the world stopped and I
00:52:55
could be I just felt safe. Like I found
00:52:57
a safe place. Um, and I was still able
00:53:02
to do everything I love, like I could
00:53:03
exercise. I'd hit balls with my dad
00:53:05
outside and whatnot. Um, and then we
00:53:10
went over to
00:53:14
Australia. So, we played Australia in a
00:53:17
series over there and we were in full
00:53:19
lockdown mode. So 2 weeks like isolate
00:53:22
isolation there but we could hang out in
00:53:24
the as a team in the hotel and we could
00:53:27
go out once a day for training um to
00:53:31
start and otherwise we were inside the
00:53:33
hotel and then after that I then went to
00:53:38
Big Bash and all eight teams were in a
00:53:42
hub. So like far out it was overwhelming
00:53:46
so many people and I'm like I love
00:53:48
people. I'm a people person, but I also
00:53:50
like
00:53:52
need my own time too. Um, and so
00:53:56
basically I was in a bubble for 3 months
00:53:59
and I just um really really struggled
00:54:04
over there. um being away in this like
00:54:08
cuz cricket's never been
00:54:10
for me like how I define myself and it's
00:54:14
always been I've always had interests
00:54:16
outside of cricket and I like like I
00:54:19
love cricket and when I'm there I'm
00:54:20
there but when I'm away from it I'm away
00:54:22
from it and then I was living in this
00:54:25
bubble with
00:54:27
eight teams squads of what 15 17 all in
00:54:31
this one place cricket it was like you
00:54:34
couldn't escape
00:54:35
And
00:54:37
um that was really tough and I know a
00:54:38
lot of people found it tough there. And
00:54:41
I think I had been struggling a lot
00:54:43
before that as well just with I guess
00:54:49
I around I think my values and what I
00:54:53
felt like I had to be and I had to be
00:54:56
like that perfect person. I had to be
00:54:58
there for everyone around me who was
00:55:00
struggling. um I couldn't take the time
00:55:04
to look after myself because everyone's
00:55:06
else's needs were more important than
00:55:07
mine. And then I came home from
00:55:11
Australia and kind of just shifted what
00:55:14
was like important to me. I got into
00:55:19
gratitude and and read a lot and
00:55:22
journaled a lot and then was really good
00:55:25
over summer um when I when I came home
00:55:28
from that and then in 2021 I kind of had
00:55:34
a relapse or relapse but in 2020 I
00:55:38
remember going what I went through and I
00:55:39
said I'm so glad I went through what I
00:55:42
went through. So, so you went through,
00:55:44
sorry for interrupting, you you went
00:55:46
through that and you didn't sort of tell
00:55:47
anyone or talk to anyone about that?
00:55:48
>> No, I so I was I was seeing a
00:55:51
psychologist in 2020 from about June.
00:55:54
>> Okay.
00:55:54
>> And
00:55:55
>> that's when you didn't even tell your
00:55:57
sister and she you on the road with Why
00:55:59
>> didn't tell my mom or dad? I didn't want
00:56:01
anyone to know,
00:56:03
>> right? But not not even did do you think
00:56:05
in hindsight you wore a really good
00:56:07
mask?
00:56:08
>> I think I did. I learned how to I
00:56:11
learned how to do that. And I because my
00:56:13
thing was what I feel doesn't matter.
00:56:18
It's about me making sure everyone else
00:56:20
around me is okay. And then,
00:56:22
>> you know, I I can see parallels. Like
00:56:25
I'm I'm exactly the same. I I I think I
00:56:28
I get some validation out of being the
00:56:30
the the person that's got the answers or
00:56:32
Yeah. the person that can solve the
00:56:33
problem.
00:56:34
>> Yeah. It was just like
00:56:35
>> it's mental though. Like it's dumb.
00:56:37
>> Yeah. It was like
00:56:38
>> completely dumb.
00:56:39
Yeah. And it was always like I don't
00:56:41
want to be as in seen as ungrateful. I
00:56:44
have an amazing family and I do what I
00:56:46
love and that's like all you can really
00:56:49
ask for in life. And
00:56:50
>> so for me to be sad and feel the way I
00:56:53
did, I was like that's so ungrateful.
00:56:55
People have it so much worse.
00:56:56
>> Was it like an element of guilt in a
00:56:58
way?
00:56:58
>> Yeah.
00:56:58
>> Yeah.
00:56:59
>> And so I
00:57:00
>> But why didn't you tell tell your
00:57:02
sister? I'm I'm curious cuz I And it's
00:57:05
there's no judgment involved. I'd be
00:57:07
exactly the same. If I was on a in a
00:57:08
team with my brother, I probably
00:57:09
wouldn't have told him when I was going
00:57:11
through [ __ ] as well. But but why not?
00:57:13
>> I think I just thought I didn't want
00:57:16
anyone
00:57:18
I didn't want anyone in my family to
00:57:20
help me because I didn't want to bring
00:57:22
them into it and I didn't want them to
00:57:24
worry and I didn't want protecting them
00:57:25
in a way.
00:57:26
>> Yeah. I didn't want them to feel sad. I
00:57:28
I was like this is me. It's not you guys
00:57:30
so you don't need to know about it. And
00:57:33
then I think I remember this was like
00:57:35
just before going to Australia. I was
00:57:38
around at um mom and dad's for dinner
00:57:41
and mom was talking to me about
00:57:42
something and I I think she was like
00:57:46
probably annoyed at me. Um me and my mom
00:57:49
my mom get along well, but I probably
00:57:51
done something like I just not been
00:57:53
myself and she was trying to check in on
00:57:56
me. Yeah. Actually, I I um I read
00:57:58
somewhere on online uh apparently you
00:58:00
changed how you were acting around home
00:58:01
and you were even started avoiding home,
00:58:03
avoiding going back home. Is that around
00:58:05
this time?
00:58:06
>> Yes. Yeah. Around that time, 2020. So
00:58:08
>> So people So So your family sort of
00:58:10
started to notice picked up on little
00:58:12
things like I
00:58:13
>> What do you What were you just more You
00:58:15
just weren't your usual jovial self or
00:58:18
>> Yeah, I was pretty quiet. Um, I would
00:58:23
get up early, train, be out all day
00:58:26
training, then, you know, I'd get home,
00:58:29
didn't want to be home cuz I didn't want
00:58:31
them I didn't want to have to fake how I
00:58:34
was feeling for too long in front of my
00:58:36
family because faking is hard. That's
00:58:37
tiring.
00:58:39
>> That's tiring hiding hiding your
00:58:40
emotions. So then I'd go to the pool.
00:58:43
I'd go to the sauna.
00:58:44
>> Um, and it was also like I'm recovering
00:58:47
as well. And then I'd come home, have
00:58:49
dinner, go to bed, repeat, and just do
00:58:51
that on repeat all day. And I guess in a
00:58:55
way, my parents really thought Milliey's
00:58:56
always trained hard. She was always
00:58:58
she's just training really hard rather
00:59:01
than avoiding home. But I think they
00:59:03
started to see a change like you could
00:59:05
also probably see a change physically um
00:59:09
as well. You can see it in people's
00:59:11
faces sometimes. And
00:59:13
>> yeah, mom tried to bring it up with me
00:59:15
and I just broke down and I had a panic
00:59:18
attack and was kind of like you have no
00:59:20
idea how I'm feeling right now.
00:59:22
>> Yeah. What what does what do you mean a
00:59:24
panic attack? What does that look like?
00:59:25
>> Just like the breathing, the
00:59:28
hyperventilating, like you can't control
00:59:30
yourself. Like your whole body feels
00:59:32
paralyzed.
00:59:33
>> And that's what I experienced a lot of
00:59:36
over in Australia when I was there for
00:59:38
those 3 months. Like sleeping was hard.
00:59:40
Couldn't really sleep. And then yeah,
00:59:42
the panic attacks and the anxiety would
00:59:45
just set me off. Some lyrics, songs,
00:59:48
music set me off. And I would just Yeah,
00:59:53
like we had to go through this like
00:59:56
custom like the back of the workers lift
01:00:00
and you could only have like three
01:00:01
people in the lift at a time for the
01:00:03
whole team. Took forever and you just be
01:00:05
waiting in this place. And just the
01:00:07
anxiety too, like is depression and
01:00:09
anxiety all at once and it just would
01:00:12
overwhelm you and you have no idea why.
01:00:15
And I think that's the hardest thing
01:00:16
when you have no idea why what's
01:00:18
happening.
01:00:18
>> Yeah. Especially if you're doing all the
01:00:19
right things like you know you're
01:00:21
keeping yourself physically fit. You're
01:00:22
getting up in in the morning. You're
01:00:24
cracking on with the day. You you're you
01:00:27
know practicing gratitude. You're doing
01:00:29
all the things that should you know
01:00:31
elevate your mental health.
01:00:32
>> Yeah. I remember writing once like um
01:00:34
you know all the mental health guides
01:00:36
and all that stuff. It's like I see all
01:00:38
of that and I'm doing all of that but it
01:00:40
will never be good enough. Like what I
01:00:42
do will never be good enough. And it was
01:00:43
kind of like cuz I was trying I was
01:00:45
doing everything and my mindset was like
01:00:48
what I do is just never good enough.
01:00:50
>> Um so that was kind of 2020 I guess.
01:00:53
>> Yeah. So then um I guess so so you went
01:00:57
through that um then you sort of came
01:00:58
right again. How can you remember how
01:01:00
you came right or did you
01:01:02
>> um I was talking to like a psychologist
01:01:06
weekly and and weekly while I was
01:01:07
overseas as well and
01:01:10
um
01:01:12
I shifted a little bit of that
01:01:14
perspective of the not good enough the
01:01:17
perfectionism I don't have to do
01:01:19
everything
01:01:21
at my best standard or I don't have to
01:01:24
be perfect like
01:01:26
I don't expect my friends to like what I
01:01:30
expected from myself, I don't expect
01:01:32
that from anyone else.
01:01:34
>> So, it's trying to shift that how I talk
01:01:36
to others is the old like I need to talk
01:01:39
to myself a little bit more like that.
01:01:41
>> Is is your inner voice are you quite
01:01:43
hard on yourself?
01:01:44
>> Yes. Yeah.
01:01:45
>> Yeah.
01:01:47
Oh my god, I'm exactly the same. It's
01:01:49
terrible. E like the inner critic. It's
01:01:51
terrible. It's like um I I I say to
01:01:54
people like I I would never the way I
01:01:57
speak to myself sometimes. I would never
01:01:59
accept that from another human being,
01:02:01
family member or otherwise. It's like I
01:02:03
I I can be a bully to myself.
01:02:05
>> Yeah. Actual bully. And it's gotten so
01:02:07
much better. I during that time I found
01:02:10
running for me was so like I wouldn't
01:02:13
sleep at night and I just couldn't sleep
01:02:15
and sleep and I'll go for a run and I
01:02:17
liked running at night cuz I felt
01:02:20
faster. You know when you're running
01:02:22
You do.
01:02:23
>> You're not. The G doesn't lie.
01:02:24
>> Yeah. Still a 20 minute cage. But yeah,
01:02:28
>> so I'll just run, but I just get in this
01:02:31
like I think too for a while like what I
01:02:35
felt was either so much pain or I'd feel
01:02:39
numb. And so I found that with running
01:02:43
at night and and whatnot, going for
01:02:45
runs, it was like I was feeling so much
01:02:48
pain that the pain of running felt good
01:02:50
>> as in I could just cope with so much
01:02:54
pain and but then if I felt numb, it was
01:02:57
like the pain of making myself go run at
01:03:01
this time
01:03:02
>> was like at least I felt something.
01:03:04
>> It's almost like a a a healthy form of
01:03:06
um you know, you know, there's people
01:03:08
that self harm.
01:03:08
>> Yeah. just so they feel something.
01:03:11
That's almost like a healthy version of
01:03:13
that.
01:03:13
>> Yeah. Kind of like running. Doing
01:03:16
running for me was like that version for
01:03:18
me. But also my one of my first warning
01:03:21
signs is eating. If I feel guilty after
01:03:25
eating, I know I'm probably
01:03:28
going into a little bit of a bad phase.
01:03:30
Need to check in on myself, look after
01:03:32
my mental health. And those are probably
01:03:35
were my two my two warning signs are
01:03:37
probably going for runs at night and and
01:03:39
and eating.
01:03:42
>> Okay. All right. Good to know. So if
01:03:44
anyone ever sees me care running at
01:03:46
night,
01:03:48
>> eating while running.
01:03:49
>> Yeah.
01:03:50
>> There you go.
01:03:51
>> Um and then um so was it 2021 that you
01:03:53
had um so like the the the relapse or
01:03:56
incident, whatever you want to call it.
01:03:58
This was even this was the real rock
01:04:00
bottom, right?
01:04:00
>> Yeah. Rock bottom. got even worse. What
01:04:03
What brought that on? What was the
01:04:04
catalyst of
01:04:05
>> Yeah, I again like
01:04:08
I've done a lot of writing that kind of
01:04:11
explains a lot into how I was feeling.
01:04:15
Um and yeah, 2021 I got an I wasn't good
01:04:20
again. And I think it was still things
01:04:22
from the past and I think it was
01:04:24
actually things from
01:04:27
basically when I was 18 through to 21
01:04:31
that I'd never dealt with as well. like
01:04:33
what
01:04:34
>> I think I never processed anything and
01:04:38
when I was a kid um
01:04:42
all those things I reckon that shaped
01:04:43
part of my identity and just seeing
01:04:45
other people struggle as a kid and the
01:04:49
suicide happening around me and um
01:04:54
I guess I had a different life as well
01:04:56
to a normal teenager as well and I had
01:04:59
to grow up
01:05:00
>> in terms of the cricket
01:05:01
>> yeah to grow up I had to grow up quickly
01:05:03
Um but yeah in 2021 I
01:05:08
then used cricket as my
01:05:12
only place in the world where my mind
01:05:14
stopped. So like cricket was meditation,
01:05:17
going to train was meditation because my
01:05:20
head finally stopped spinning. Like the
01:05:22
voice in my head finally stopped and
01:05:24
then
01:05:26
broke my finger
01:05:28
>> and so that like place of safety for me
01:05:32
had gone. Um
01:05:36
I'd still run in gyms so I had that kind
01:05:38
of escape for me. Um, but yeah, I I lost
01:05:42
my safety and I was also that
01:05:45
perfectionism again. It was like, I want
01:05:48
to be the best I can be and if I'm
01:05:51
injured, I can't be the best I can be.
01:05:53
I'm not going to get any better. I'm
01:05:55
going to fall behind. All of that. Um,
01:05:58
>> someone else is going to take my spot.
01:06:00
>> Yeah. It's like all those feelings of um
01:06:03
of that. But then I I was really in a
01:06:08
really bad place struggling and um again
01:06:12
didn't tell my family. It's funny
01:06:14
because you know throughout that time in
01:06:17
2020 once my family knew they helped me
01:06:20
so much
01:06:21
>> but then again started seeing my
01:06:23
psychologist again and didn't tell my
01:06:25
family. So I kind of went back into old
01:06:28
habits of I've got to hide this. I can't
01:06:31
show anyone how I'm feeling.
01:06:34
Um,
01:06:36
>> would you if it if it happens again and
01:06:38
let's hope it doesn't, would you would
01:06:41
you would you be more comfortable
01:06:42
speaking out, do you think, if it
01:06:43
happened again or do you think you'd
01:06:44
this is your default setting where
01:06:46
you're just going to,
01:06:47
>> you know, you find it hard to speak
01:06:49
until it's really [ __ ] bad?
01:06:51
>> I'd like to say I would um
01:06:54
>> speak early. I actually I really
01:06:56
struggled in May this year and um
01:07:02
I
01:07:04
didn't tell anyone again but I did after
01:07:08
2 weeks of really struggling and I saw a
01:07:11
psychologist a different one cuz my one
01:07:13
moved back to England which I was very
01:07:16
sad about. Um,
01:07:18
and I was like, "Oh, I've been feeling
01:07:21
like this for the last twoish
01:07:24
3 weeks
01:07:26
>> and didn't kind of seek help or get help
01:07:28
till then." And I just kind of thought,
01:07:30
well, before that, how I was feeling, I
01:07:33
was feeling like that for so long. And I
01:07:35
thought, you know, I'm just feeling bad
01:07:37
at this time. It's going to pass.
01:07:39
>> But actually feeling like how I was
01:07:41
feeling for 2 weeks, it's that's not
01:07:44
normal.
01:07:44
>> Yeah, it's a long time. But I guess from
01:07:47
my tolerance or from how I felt in the
01:07:50
past, it was like months or
01:07:54
>> you know. So yeah, it's it takes me a
01:07:57
while. I try process it myself. I try
01:08:00
help myself before telling anyone. Um
01:08:04
but at the end of the day, like I'm
01:08:06
advocating for people to speak up. I
01:08:08
want people to be able to tell people
01:08:10
and speak up, but sometimes
01:08:13
um
01:08:14
>> you got to tell yourself that.
01:08:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You feel like a
01:08:17
hypocrite in a way.
01:08:19
>> Yeah.
01:08:20
>> You know the right things to do, but you
01:08:21
still don't want to do it.
01:08:23
>> Yeah. But there's so much power in being
01:08:25
vulnerable. And I think I've found that
01:08:27
too, even now just with relationships
01:08:30
with people in the team, like my
01:08:33
friends, it's just like
01:08:36
every conversation's more open.
01:08:38
Everything's more honest. You have a
01:08:39
deeper level of, I guess, understanding.
01:08:42
You
01:08:43
>> like you truly truly understand and care
01:08:46
for them
01:08:47
>> on this level. And you just check in on
01:08:49
your mates. And I think that's been the
01:08:51
most powerful thing for me and my family
01:08:54
and friend group is we're more hyper
01:08:56
aware and we understand it more. Um
01:09:02
but yeah, it's like I don't need to feel
01:09:05
bad for 2 weeks before I get help. I can
01:09:08
do it after a few days.
01:09:09
>> That's cool. Yeah, the vulnerability
01:09:11
thing is interesting. I've um I I would
01:09:13
up until a few years ago have described
01:09:15
myself as completely um invulnerable, if
01:09:18
that's if that's a word. But I'm like
01:09:20
I'm older than you. I went to an all
01:09:21
boys school in the 1980s. It was a
01:09:23
different generation. Um so it's [ __ ]
01:09:25
hard for me, but it's the best thing
01:09:27
ever.
01:09:28
>> It's so empowering.
01:09:29
>> Yeah. It just it opens people up because
01:09:34
>> actually everyone's got [ __ ] going on in
01:09:35
their life. Everyone has stuff going on
01:09:38
upstairs, you know. Oh, mate. That's one
01:09:41
one I I I stopped seeing a therapist
01:09:43
around about the same time I started
01:09:44
this podcast and um I I've actually
01:09:46
found doing this podcast quite cathartic
01:09:48
because you realize that everyone's
01:09:49
carrying [ __ ]
01:09:50
>> Yeah.
01:09:50
>> Absolutely everyone. People that even
01:09:52
people that you wouldn't even expect.
01:09:53
>> No.
01:09:54
>> Um it's um indiscriminate, you know, and
01:09:57
everyone's going to go through stuff.
01:09:58
>> So um so when was it that your your
01:10:01
family staged like an intervention of
01:10:03
sorts? When was that? 2021.
01:10:05
>> 2021. So yeah, I was just in the worst
01:10:09
possible place again. Um,
01:10:11
>> was this the broken finger?
01:10:13
>> Yeah. And I think again just like all
01:10:16
those thoughts in my head as well from
01:10:18
things that have happened in the past as
01:10:20
well that I felt like what could have I
01:10:22
done better
01:10:23
>> um
01:10:24
in certain situations and and whatnot.
01:10:27
And
01:10:28
>> in ter in terms of um the suicides
01:10:29
around you,
01:10:31
>> not so much that but just like why
01:10:37
why and trying to understand and
01:10:40
>> and just other things like
01:10:44
>> trying Yeah, I just
01:10:46
don't really know in a way. Um but
01:10:51
yeah, I guess I was in a horrible place
01:10:54
and I wasn't sleeping at all. Um I was
01:10:59
probably not eating enough and
01:11:02
exercising too much and
01:11:05
I yeah just panic attacks just I just
01:11:10
couldn't [ __ ] I was like a shell of
01:11:12
myself like I didn't even look like me
01:11:15
nothing to me and I just got tired of
01:11:19
pretending I guess and
01:11:21
>> putting on a brave face um and I had
01:11:28
like a few moments where it just because
01:11:31
it was so continuous I never got a break
01:11:33
like there was never any good moments. I
01:11:35
never had a good moment. I'd cry every
01:11:38
morning when I woke up because the day
01:11:41
was scary. I didn't want to
01:11:44
face the day and then I'd cry every
01:11:46
night because I didn't want to repeat
01:11:48
the same process and I was scared of
01:11:49
going to sleep because of like
01:11:54
things like I just couldn't sleep. I
01:11:56
closed my eyes and just terrible like
01:11:59
it's almost like hallucinations and and
01:12:02
whatnot. So, I was just constantly in
01:12:05
the cycle and I couldn't get out of it.
01:12:08
>> For how long?
01:12:09
>> Um, I'd say like that for about two
01:12:14
months maybe.
01:12:15
>> Oh my god.
01:12:16
>> Um, just running off no sleep. And then
01:12:21
I went to Maddie Green who's in the
01:12:23
White Ferns and I would just go I I was
01:12:28
I wouldn't even tell her but I just went
01:12:30
round drove around knocked on her front
01:12:32
door at about you know late at night and
01:12:36
she just knew that I was like
01:12:39
I was like you tell I've been crying.
01:12:42
I'd actually come from sitting at a
01:12:43
lookout just contemplating I guess life.
01:12:48
Why should I be here? And then
01:12:52
I
01:12:52
>> Did you Did you Did you contemplate
01:12:54
taking your own life?
01:12:56
>> Yeah. I think throughout that two-month
01:12:58
process, I
01:12:59
>> It's a long time to be exhausted. Eh,
01:13:02
>> yeah.
01:13:03
>> It's a long time.
01:13:04
>> Those two months I suicide was on my
01:13:07
mind every single day. Um, there was
01:13:10
once where there's once where I was in
01:13:14
my car and I
01:13:18
had
01:13:19
I had all these pills for like a injured
01:13:22
wrist and I was in my car and I just
01:13:25
wanted to take them all. I wanted to
01:13:28
I just wanted the pains to go away in
01:13:30
that moment.
01:13:31
>> Yeah, 100%. That's that's what it is.
01:13:33
You just want the pain to stop. I just
01:13:34
wanted it to stop. And I was like, if
01:13:36
people know what I'm going through, like
01:13:38
I'm bringing my family's life down, how
01:13:40
can I do this? And so
01:13:44
I yeah, in my car, like panic attack cuz
01:13:49
it was like, [ __ ] this is what I want
01:13:52
to do, but you know, that's obviously a
01:13:54
scary decision to make.
01:13:57
>> And I obviously didn't. And then I a few
01:14:01
weeks later or whatever was at this
01:14:03
lookout and then just sat there because
01:14:07
like it was a beautiful night and I just
01:14:09
found something so like peaceful in that
01:14:11
but it also made me sad because it was
01:14:13
like I saw beauty in that but there was
01:14:16
no like beauty in my life or how I was
01:14:19
feeling. And then I was like got in my
01:14:23
car again, drove to Maddiey's house and
01:14:26
I think I actually went to call my dad
01:14:29
and he didn't answer but I heard his
01:14:31
voice message and that just broke me. I
01:14:34
was like I love my dad
01:14:36
and so I went to but he can't know how
01:14:38
I'm feeling. I went to Maddiey's and
01:14:41
stayed with Maddie that night and that
01:14:43
ended up being a common theme that I was
01:14:45
at her house most nights and she just
01:14:49
she didn't even necessarily talk to me
01:14:51
like
01:14:52
>> she's just there. I sat at like her
01:14:54
table with her when I came in that night
01:14:56
and was she was there and I was here and
01:14:58
I was just like this
01:15:01
like
01:15:01
>> like almost like a catatonic so state
01:15:03
>> just like couldn't talk
01:15:05
>> could not talk and she knew like she
01:15:07
knew from how I was but I just I
01:15:09
couldn't tell her anything and I didn't
01:15:11
want to tell her the thoughts I was
01:15:13
having because I didn't want to scare
01:15:14
her
01:15:16
and then people would ask me Maddie
01:15:18
would and our PDM would ask me cuz you
01:15:21
do have to ask at times s are you
01:15:23
suicidal? And I'd say I think about it a
01:15:28
lot, but I will never do it,
01:15:31
>> which was a lie cuz I had thought about
01:15:34
it. And then I was no good. And I just
01:15:38
thought I needed to get away cuz
01:15:39
Wellington I was finding obviously like
01:15:42
my routine there was horrible because
01:15:45
every day was hard. And we had a
01:15:47
training camp in Christ Church and I was
01:15:49
like I just need to get to that training
01:15:51
camp because I'll be at cricket. I'll be
01:15:54
in my happy place and I just need to
01:15:56
make it there. Um,
01:16:00
and I
01:16:02
guess
01:16:04
that was my mindset. I'm getting to
01:16:08
Christ Church. So, got on the plane and
01:16:11
at that point in time, Maddie had I was
01:16:15
on anti-depressants and everything and
01:16:17
Maddie had taken all my pills with me.
01:16:20
Um, so she had all of that and I was
01:16:23
just going to have one each day from
01:16:25
her. And I was sitting on the window
01:16:27
seat and I looked out the window on the
01:16:30
plane and it was the most beautiful
01:16:32
night. I love Wellington. I beautiful
01:16:35
city.
01:16:35
>> You can't beat it on a good day.
01:16:36
>> No, you can't beat it on a good day.
01:16:39
>> And I just looked out and I was like,
01:16:41
"Wow,
01:16:43
this is beautiful. Like this place is
01:16:45
beautiful and this is" and it just hit
01:16:48
me in that moment.
01:16:50
This is the last time I'm ever going to
01:16:52
see this city. And I started crying on
01:16:55
the plane.
01:16:56
>> What? What did you mean?
01:16:58
>> Like as in I'm going to Christ Church
01:17:00
away from my family.
01:17:03
Um, and I'm not going to see Wellington
01:17:05
again because I want this pain to end.
01:17:09
And if I end it in Christ Church, my
01:17:12
family aren't going to have the pain of
01:17:15
finding me.
01:17:17
>> Mely, this is heartbreaking.
01:17:19
>> And yeah, [ __ ] It was Yeah, it was
01:17:24
that's the only thing I felt was like my
01:17:27
head was sore, my head was screaming,
01:17:29
like my body was tired. I was like
01:17:34
I was treating water and
01:17:38
yeah, I then went out that night in
01:17:43
Lincoln
01:17:45
and I just I went for a walk and I wrote
01:17:48
a note actually in my room for mom, dad,
01:17:51
and Jess. And I just remember walking
01:17:55
and I there's a security guard on campus
01:18:00
and I was so like this is what I'm doing
01:18:02
in my own head and the security guard on
01:18:05
campus came and spoke to me and he was
01:18:09
like hey are you okay
01:18:12
and it's like it brought me back to
01:18:13
reality
01:18:14
>> cuz I was not in like I was not in my
01:18:20
I was in this world that only I was
01:18:23
thinking about and and like my pain and
01:18:26
he just
01:18:28
random guy said, "Are you okay?"
01:18:30
>> Amazing. I bet he's got no idea of the
01:18:32
impact that he had.
01:18:33
>> Yeah. And I
01:18:33
>> What did you just say? Yeah, sweet.
01:18:35
>> I said, "Yeah, I'm good. Thanks. Just
01:18:36
going for a walk."
01:18:38
>> But it just it just brought me back to
01:18:40
life in a way.
01:18:42
>> Um,
01:18:43
>> can you remember that the uh the note
01:18:45
you wrote?
01:18:46
>> Did you did you keep it?
01:18:47
>> I I have it. I can read it actually. I
01:18:50
>> Yeah. Would you?
01:18:51
>> Yeah.
01:18:52
only if it's
01:18:53
>> Yeah, only if you want.
01:18:55
>> I um
01:18:57
So then I Maddie found me
01:19:01
and I
01:19:05
they had to let the psychologist know
01:19:07
and I got
01:19:09
um yeah, sent home the next day and I
01:19:13
just didn't want to go home because I
01:19:16
had to face the people that I love the
01:19:18
most in the world.
01:19:19
>> Yeah. And that's tough because
01:19:23
I just love my family so much and I knew
01:19:25
what I was feeling. I wouldn't wish that
01:19:27
upon anyone.
01:19:30
>> The brain's a it's a [ __ ] up part of
01:19:32
the body.
01:19:33
>> The brain's horrible.
01:19:34
>> It makes no sense at all.
01:19:36
>> Yeah.
01:19:37
>> Um Maddie flew home with me.
01:19:39
>> Yeah.
01:19:39
>> And
01:19:41
I said to Maddie, cuz Jess wasn't at
01:19:44
camp, she was sick or something. And I
01:19:47
flew home from that camp and
01:19:50
was like, Maddie was like, "You have to
01:19:51
tell someone like someone's got to stay
01:19:53
with you tonight." So I said, "Okay,
01:19:56
Jess and Zach, who's her boyfriend, can
01:19:58
come over and they can stay with me, but
01:20:01
mom and dad can't know, they can't know
01:20:03
anything." Um,
01:20:06
so I got home, Jess and Zach were there
01:20:09
and then mom and dad because I was in in
01:20:12
a flat and mom and dad came over and I
01:20:16
could tell they looked sad like they had
01:20:17
been crying and then I'd gone to my room
01:20:21
to go get some space and my uncle and
01:20:23
auntie walk in and I just broke down
01:20:25
>> like my grandparents came in and there
01:20:28
are some really powerful things
01:20:31
said that night like my dad read a
01:20:33
speech out that he reads some of it on
01:20:36
his like treading water monologue.
01:20:37
>> Yeah, it's incredible, by the way.
01:20:39
>> Yeah, it is powerful,
01:20:41
>> man. And yeah, so it's like a 2-minute
01:20:43
speech, but took it he was so um
01:20:45
emotional it took him like 10 minutes to
01:20:46
get through it.
01:20:47
>> And I'd only seen him cry once before at
01:20:49
his mom's funeral
01:20:51
>> and then he's has he got better at um
01:20:54
crying and showing emotion through Yeah.
01:20:56
>> Yeah. So after that speech, he cried
01:20:59
every day for a month. M
01:21:01
>> um
01:21:03
>> just because of your pain.
01:21:04
>> Yeah.
01:21:04
>> Oh my god.
01:21:06
>> And then
01:21:08
I guess yeah I think there my grandma
01:21:13
spoke and she said I don't know how many
01:21:16
years papa and I have left but without
01:21:19
you we have no good years left. Mhm.
01:21:22
>> And then my sister Jess Powerful was
01:21:26
said,
01:21:28
"I remember growing up cuz family's been
01:21:30
our thing." Like I remember growing up
01:21:32
we talked about we were gutted mom and
01:21:35
dad didn't have more kids and they
01:21:36
wanted more kids
01:21:38
>> actually. They wanted more kids but
01:21:39
mom's cancer didn't allow that. Um and
01:21:42
we like me and just didn't know that. So
01:21:44
when we're young, like we wish we had
01:21:46
more brothers and sisters because we
01:21:49
wanted we want our kids to have what we
01:21:52
had growing up with all the cousins.
01:21:55
>> And Jess was like, and we've talked
01:21:57
about that and how like we want our kids
01:21:59
to be like best mates.
01:22:01
>> And she was like, if I don't if you're
01:22:03
not here, my kids don't get that.
01:22:06
>> Like I don't get to be an auntie and
01:22:07
uncle to
01:22:09
to your kids. And that like everything
01:22:13
broke me. like it's heartbreaking.
01:22:15
>> There was not a dry eye in in that room.
01:22:20
And then the next day I went to mom and
01:22:24
dad took me to the crisis team to
01:22:27
hospital and I was there about 8 n hours
01:22:29
and I was then and
01:22:32
>> waiting time. Waiting time to get seen
01:22:35
by someone.
01:22:36
>> Oh. Oh, okay. Wow.
01:22:38
And then I spoke to a psychiatrist and
01:22:41
two
01:22:43
um I guess people that work in the
01:22:45
mental health unit there. I was in the
01:22:47
room for them with 90 minutes talking
01:22:49
about stuff and felt like 30 and
01:22:54
then they took mom and dad in, spoke to
01:22:56
them about a plan. Um started seeing a
01:23:00
psychiatrist as well as a psychologist
01:23:02
weekly. Got on more medication.
01:23:05
Um, and then yeah, basically from there
01:23:08
they told mom and dad what to do. I
01:23:10
didn't have a I wasn't allowed to be
01:23:12
alone. So for about maybe 6 weeks I had
01:23:15
to sleep next to mom or dad.
01:23:17
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think I read this and you
01:23:18
weren't allowed to drive a car.
01:23:20
>> Not allowed to drive a car.
01:23:21
>> Was this like um like suicide watch in a
01:23:23
way?
01:23:24
>> In a way. Yeah. Um
01:23:27
>> yeah. So my family wrapped around me and
01:23:31
>> how did you feel at the time? Were you
01:23:32
annoyed by that or were you appreciative
01:23:34
of it?
01:23:34
>> I think at that time I just needed that
01:23:37
and after seeing my family that
01:23:39
intervention it was like yes I still
01:23:41
feel the exact same but I've seen my
01:23:44
family and I've seen that and I was like
01:23:48
at that time it was I'm going to get
01:23:51
better for my family because they need
01:23:53
me here.
01:23:53
>> Did it feel like a relief though like
01:23:55
this huge secret that you'd got? It was
01:23:57
it was it was like
01:23:59
>> it felt like I was finally going to get
01:24:01
the help I needed.
01:24:03
>> And you didn't Yeah. Yeah. You didn't
01:24:06
you didn't have to hide or keep it to
01:24:07
yourself anymore. It must have been so
01:24:10
almost like that point in time where
01:24:12
it's like sometimes you have to break
01:24:13
down to break through and
01:24:15
>> I reached my absolute absolute lowest.
01:24:19
>> Like it's a long it's a it's a long hard
01:24:21
road back though when you're at that
01:24:23
rock bottom.
01:24:23
>> Yeah. And
01:24:26
yeah, and then we went into um but I in
01:24:29
that 8 hours I wrote down everything I'd
01:24:33
been feeling um
01:24:36
everything I'd been feeling and then I
01:24:39
read that out about 3 weeks later to all
01:24:42
my family. And I think for me like for
01:24:46
so long, it's probably like only recent,
01:24:48
not in the last few few months or six
01:24:52
months where I used to write how I felt
01:24:56
and then almost that's how I expressed
01:24:58
my emotions. So I'd write it and give it
01:25:00
to mom or dad. That's how I communicated
01:25:03
because talking was too hard. I couldn't
01:25:05
talk like this podcast. You tell me to
01:25:08
do that I don't know eight months ago.
01:25:11
like talking was too hard,
01:25:13
>> but writing was my coping mechanism. And
01:25:15
I wrote down everything because I saw
01:25:17
the vulner vulnerability my family
01:25:19
showed to me in that moment and I wanted
01:25:20
them to understand
01:25:22
it all. Um, so I wrote down and I've
01:25:26
kept it all like
01:25:27
>> Yeah, writing is a great way to process
01:25:29
your thoughts and get them down on the
01:25:31
page.
01:25:32
>> Yeah. Just like for me it was became I
01:25:35
wrote down everything and that was off
01:25:36
my chest.
01:25:37
>> Yeah. And then I got from writing to
01:25:40
reading my writing out and it was like
01:25:42
another
01:25:44
weight off my chest. Um
01:25:49
but
01:25:50
and that in the hospital is when I wrote
01:25:53
the trending water my like I've been
01:25:55
treing water for too long because that's
01:25:57
ex cuz my mom asked me how are you
01:25:59
feeling and I just thought for someone
01:26:01
that hasn't felt this pain or gone
01:26:03
through this before it's hard to
01:26:06
explain. So, how can I visually explain
01:26:08
it?
01:26:09
>> So, that's the analogy you came up with.
01:26:10
>> So, that's Yeah. What I wrote to mom and
01:26:13
dad that that day. Um
01:26:16
>> I like it. It's a great analogy.
01:26:18
>> And uh I if you want to take the analogy
01:26:20
even further, I guess um like when
01:26:22
you're down south and you're at your
01:26:24
absolute rock bottom, it's like you're
01:26:26
treating water, but the waves are coming
01:26:27
over at the same time.
01:26:29
>> Yeah.
01:26:29
>> Just not catching a break.
01:26:31
>> No. Yeah. Just constantly. Constantly.
01:26:34
And that gets too tiring if you do it
01:26:36
for too long. Yeah. can't
01:26:37
>> you can't survive doing it for too long
01:26:39
and I guess that's the position I was
01:26:42
in. Um
01:26:46
but yeah, I like wrote a bit to um my
01:26:51
mom
01:26:53
as well and
01:26:55
I just said I I had said to her like I
01:26:58
just feel every emotion so deeply and
01:27:00
I've always been sensitive and worried
01:27:02
about things but through it all my
01:27:04
family is what I live for because I
01:27:06
don't want to be without you and that's
01:27:08
why I hugged you for so long yesterday.
01:27:11
Sometimes it feels like I want
01:27:12
everything to stop. I thought maybe it
01:27:15
would be easier for me and everyone else
01:27:17
not to be here because I would bring
01:27:18
every everyone down with me. But I know
01:27:21
how much you care and how much you love
01:27:23
me. That's why I find it hard to talk to
01:27:25
you about it sometimes because because I
01:27:28
don't want to make you sad or hurt when
01:27:30
you have done nothing wrong. Sometimes
01:27:33
it's hard telling the people you're
01:27:34
closest to things because I want to
01:27:36
protect you all.
01:27:38
Um
01:27:40
And I
01:27:43
>> jeez
01:27:44
>> had um
01:27:48
this like I from the from today
01:27:54
till however long till today it has been
01:27:57
the hardest period of my life. I don't
01:27:59
think I've slept for over a over weeks.
01:28:02
I think every night the thought of
01:28:03
suicide crossed my mind and it scared me
01:28:05
so much. I'd gone for a 5k run on Monday
01:28:08
night and then for a drive to a lookout.
01:28:11
I was in my car crying, contemplating
01:28:13
life, but I knew deep down that it
01:28:16
wasn't what I wanted to do. It felt like
01:28:18
it was my it was my brain telling me I
01:28:20
had to do it. Luckily, I decided to go
01:28:22
to Maddie. The first person I felt
01:28:24
comfortable to talk about all these
01:28:27
thoughts with, she called me and I
01:28:30
answered the phone and went to her
01:28:31
place. I felt dead inside. Maddie stayed
01:28:35
with me that night and since then she's
01:28:37
been my constant support. Maddie, you
01:28:40
helped keep me alive. I'm so sorry I put
01:28:42
so much on you and that for a while
01:28:45
you're my only person to talk to you.
01:28:47
You provided me with safety and with
01:28:49
your love and support, you have enabled
01:28:50
me to still be here standing today
01:28:52
asking for more help. Alongside Jess, I
01:28:56
couldn't ask for a better big sister.
01:28:59
Um
01:29:00
>> Oh my god. And then yeah, there's a lot
01:29:04
of writing on here.
01:29:04
>> I don't even know these people that
01:29:06
you're talking about, but I'm feeling
01:29:07
emotional.
01:29:08
>> Yeah,
01:29:08
>> this is a lot. Wow.
01:29:10
>> Um,
01:29:11
>> how do you feel reading that back now?
01:29:14
>> Does it still make you emotional or are
01:29:15
you
01:29:16
>> It makes me emotional. Um, but I've read
01:29:19
it
01:29:21
almost so many times now.
01:29:23
>> But it does make me feel emotional. And
01:29:25
I think like I haven't shown many people
01:29:28
this stuff. uh my family and a couple of
01:29:30
my closest friends. I mean, there's a
01:29:33
lot in here that some of it I'll
01:29:35
probably never ever share.
01:29:37
>> Um to the world, but there's stuff in it
01:29:42
that
01:29:43
I just it helped me so much this
01:29:46
writing.
01:29:47
>> Um reading it to my family helped them
01:29:51
as well. Um
01:29:53
>> it sounds like your family is was close
01:29:55
anyway, but is it is your family closer
01:29:56
now, do you think? Yeah. So close. But
01:29:59
so much closer now. Um
01:30:03
>> so much closer.
01:30:05
>> And have you got have you got a plan
01:30:06
now? Like what if you you know what if
01:30:08
something happens and you end up
01:30:09
spiraling again? Like have you got a
01:30:11
resilience plan now or what do you It's
01:30:12
seems see this is the thing. It feels
01:30:14
like you're doing everything right.
01:30:15
Anyway.
01:30:16
>> Yeah. I think for me it's just being
01:30:18
really aware of my
01:30:21
emotions. Um,
01:30:24
that's probably the main thing and I
01:30:28
guess just trying to keep in good habits
01:30:31
like sometimes
01:30:34
>> I just got to find the balance right I
01:30:36
think in my life as well like with the
01:30:38
over
01:30:41
>> can be too busy at times but I think for
01:30:43
me I know what makes me happy and if I
01:30:46
can do that as much as possible um and
01:30:50
I'm more open Now I'm kinder to myself.
01:30:54
I will tell my family I have an amazing
01:30:57
partner who just gets me and supports me
01:31:01
and I know I can tell him how I feel
01:31:05
which before that I wouldn't have never
01:31:06
done with any other partner.
01:31:09
>> I love that. Has he has he experienced
01:31:11
any mental health issues himself or No,
01:31:14
>> no, he hasn't. Um
01:31:15
>> cuz my um when I was married, my wife
01:31:19
JJ, she this this is like five six years
01:31:21
ago now. She had um some terrible mental
01:31:24
health episodes like what you sort of
01:31:26
imagined like um where she just couldn't
01:31:28
get out of bed.
01:31:29
>> And I I look back now and I handled it
01:31:31
completely the wrong way. Like and it
01:31:33
came from a well-meaning place, but I'd
01:31:34
come home from work and I'd be like,
01:31:36
"Come on, let's uh let's open the
01:31:37
curtains. We'll get out there, get some
01:31:39
vitamin D." And
01:31:40
>> you know, and I look back now and it's
01:31:41
like, "Fuck, man. You're an idiot." So,
01:31:43
it's really cool that you've got a
01:31:44
partner who's same age as you.
01:31:46
>> Uh, he's a bit old, 25,
01:31:48
>> right? Yeah. But still very, very young
01:31:50
in his 20s. That he's got that sort of
01:31:52
empathy and understanding. I think
01:31:53
that's really cool.
01:31:54
>> I think like a big sign for me was I
01:31:57
didn't
01:31:58
really speak to people that I just met
01:32:01
about my mental health stuff. and I'd
01:32:04
met him and like we'd kind of had a
01:32:07
friendship before and and then when we
01:32:09
were together, I told him really early
01:32:11
on and read out like all my stuff I'd
01:32:14
wrote before and I was like
01:32:18
>> first date.
01:32:18
>> Yeah, first date.
01:32:20
>> [ __ ] He's probably like,
01:32:21
>> "Get it all out on the table."
01:32:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's probably like, "Shit,
01:32:24
I'm going to run now."
01:32:26
No, it wasn't quite first date.
01:32:28
Otherwise, we probably won't be
01:32:30
together. Um, but yeah, I just felt
01:32:33
comfortable enough to tell him that. And
01:32:36
yeah, he he hasn't had any struggles.
01:32:39
Well,
01:32:39
>> he's had struggles. Obviously, everyone
01:32:41
has struggles, but not to the like
01:32:44
mental illness, I guess.
01:32:46
>> Um, but yeah, even today, like every
01:32:49
time I read something out or talk about
01:32:53
experience, he just cries.
01:32:56
>> But yeah, he's
01:32:57
>> Wow, that's cool. Oh, he sounds like a
01:32:59
good dude. Yeah, he's a good guy.
01:33:01
>> Yeah. Um, yeah. One thing like from
01:33:03
doing this podcast, you realize that
01:33:04
everyone um, if you haven't had any
01:33:06
struggles yet, you count yourself lucky,
01:33:08
but you are at some point in life. Like
01:33:10
Adam Perori, do do are you familiar?
01:33:12
>> I know the New Zealand cricket wicket
01:33:13
keeper from probably before you were
01:33:15
born. Yeah.
01:33:16
>> Um, but he was like cocky and brash and
01:33:19
a very very good very good cricketer.
01:33:21
Um, massive massive ego. Yeah.
01:33:24
>> You know, at the peak of his career,
01:33:25
everyone sort of thought he was like
01:33:26
kind of a tool I guess. Um, and he he he
01:33:30
got through life just fine. Then had a
01:33:31
relationship break up in his late 40s
01:33:32
and was like couldn't leave the couldn't
01:33:34
leave the house and was having panic
01:33:36
attacks and stuff.
01:33:37
>> So, you never know when it's going to
01:33:38
get
01:33:38
>> going to happen. Yeah.
01:33:39
>> Yeah.
01:33:40
>> Yeah. Happens to different people at
01:33:41
different times.
01:33:42
>> Yeah. But the um so so um with that that
01:33:46
big incident in 2021 that's when you
01:33:48
tapped out of cricket for a while and um
01:33:50
they they could have it could have just
01:33:52
been said that you were unavailable for
01:33:54
selection but um you were very very firm
01:33:56
in your um messaging and that you wanted
01:33:59
people to know that it was a like a
01:34:00
mental health thing.
01:34:01
>> Yeah.
01:34:02
>> Um which I think that was really cool.
01:34:03
Were you nervous about doing that?
01:34:05
>> Yeah.
01:34:06
>> [ __ ] yourself?
01:34:07
>> Yeah, I was really nervous. Um
01:34:11
yeah I
01:34:13
you know I could have said I'd broke my
01:34:14
finger and I I I could not avail it's
01:34:18
not available. I could have said
01:34:19
anything but I thought this is actually
01:34:22
something I'm passionate about mental
01:34:24
health and I've seen other people close
01:34:27
to me struggle. So if I hide away from
01:34:31
it then like I can't expect the stigma
01:34:35
to change. M.
01:34:37
>> So yeah, I wanted to be open because
01:34:40
that was the reason why I wasn't going
01:34:42
on tour because I needed to be home. I
01:34:44
needed to be, you know,
01:34:46
>> you need to heal.
01:34:47
>> Yeah, I needed to heal just like people
01:34:50
need to heal from injuries. I needed to
01:34:52
heal from what I was going through.
01:34:54
>> Um, so yeah, if I couldn't I can't you
01:34:57
can't expect change. I couldn't expect
01:35:01
change in our mental health system or
01:35:04
anything.
01:35:06
And I didn't want to be a hypocrite in
01:35:08
that way.
01:35:09
>> So I wanted to be honest and I thought,
01:35:10
you know, if someone else sees that and
01:35:13
sees me being honest, maybe it can
01:35:15
encourage them to speak up.
01:35:17
>> Yeah. And is that the sort of the idea
01:35:19
of um treading water? Is that sort of
01:35:21
how that came about?
01:35:22
>> Yeah.
01:35:23
>> Around that time. Yeah.
01:35:24
>> Yeah. So
01:35:24
>> Treading Water, by the way, it's bloody
01:35:25
great. It's fantastic. Um Yeah. Out of
01:35:29
there rough.nz is the website and
01:35:31
Treading Water is the name of the name
01:35:32
of the series.
01:35:33
>> Yeah.
01:35:34
>> Yeah. It's brilliant.
01:35:34
>> Yeah. So I obviously then started well
01:35:39
got back into playing well I was still
01:35:40
training and everything once I could and
01:35:43
um then played that home world cup and
01:35:46
started 2022 and
01:35:49
we then had we went into our leave
01:35:52
period after that. But throughout that
01:35:53
World Cup I thought what am I going to
01:35:55
do and leave? Um what's something I can
01:35:58
do while I'm at home?
01:36:00
>> Loves a project. So, I thought about
01:36:03
this idea and it kind of just came to
01:36:05
me. I wrote up a little plan, whatnot.
01:36:08
Um, I got in touch with a psychologist
01:36:12
who knew Mike King. Gave him a call and
01:36:16
said, "This is what I want to do. I want
01:36:17
to interview these people. I want to do
01:36:21
high-profile, not so high profile
01:36:22
because it affects us all."
01:36:24
>> Um, and everyone's story is so
01:36:26
different. and like the my dad's
01:36:29
perspective. I wanted it from a parents
01:36:30
perspective and how to help. So called
01:36:32
him kind of said I want to interview the
01:36:35
people and I know someone who's very
01:36:39
good um film photographer freelancer and
01:36:44
I know him and we work well together and
01:36:47
he was like I love the idea
01:36:49
and then for a while I was thinking like
01:36:52
me and Hamish who filmed it were like
01:36:53
how are we going to raise money for this
01:36:55
project cuz film's obviously expensive
01:36:57
and then
01:36:58
>> were you like I'll just go to India for
01:36:59
a couple of months leave it with
01:37:01
At that point there was no India.
01:37:04
>> How did you waste the money?
01:37:06
>> Well, I that's why I'm hope have been so
01:37:08
supportive. So, we're like thinking
01:37:11
about it and Mike was like, "Oh, that's
01:37:13
pretty pretty um
01:37:16
cheap for what you're doing, like the
01:37:18
work you're putting in and for, you
01:37:20
know, it's amazing what um the support
01:37:24
I'm hope have shown us, Hish, through
01:37:27
this project and that Mike kind of gave
01:37:30
us full trust and and let us let us do
01:37:33
this." And it's been
01:37:35
to this day it's like the best thing I'm
01:37:38
most proud of in my life. I'm more proud
01:37:41
of that. Um kind
01:37:43
>> scoring 232 against Ireland. Come on.
01:37:47
>> No. No. I agree. Like sports one thing,
01:37:50
but um
01:37:50
>> yeah, sport's the thing I love and what
01:37:52
I work really hard for and everything,
01:37:55
but this is what I've turned a horrible
01:37:57
experience into and to hopefully help
01:38:00
other people. That for me that is today
01:38:04
the greatest thing I've ever done.
01:38:07
>> Yeah. You're proud of yourself.
01:38:09
>> I am proud of Treading Water
01:38:13
>> and I am I am proud of who I am today
01:38:17
from where I've come from.
01:38:19
>> Yeah.
01:38:20
>> And I want to keep
01:38:23
being better every day. But I'm proud of
01:38:26
the journey I am on and and where I'm at
01:38:29
where I'm at today.
01:38:31
And I'm Yeah.
01:38:33
>> Yeah. That keep keep getting better
01:38:35
thing. It comes back to that
01:38:35
perfectionism thing we talked about
01:38:37
before. E that's a good good thing but
01:38:39
not always a good thing.
01:38:40
>> Yeah.
01:38:41
>> I notic you got some tattoos as well.
01:38:42
Have you got a this two shall pass?
01:38:44
>> Yeah. This two shall pass. That's what
01:38:46
my papa said to me.
01:38:48
>> Um
01:38:48
>> I think it's an Abraham Lincoln quote. I
01:38:50
think old US president. But it's it's a
01:38:52
great one. Eh.
01:38:53
>> Yeah.
01:38:53
>> It's fantastic.
01:38:55
>> Yeah, it is a good one. So he said that
01:38:57
to me at that family intervention and
01:39:00
>> he's Yeah.
01:39:02
>> Great man.
01:39:03
>> Yeah. Well, that's Hey, thanks for being
01:39:05
so open about all this stuff.
01:39:06
>> No, thank you.
01:39:06
>> Is it Is it hard for you to talk about
01:39:08
or does it get any easier?
01:39:11
>> Um, it gets easier.
01:39:13
>> But how will you feel when when I when I
01:39:15
leave here in a few minutes? How will
01:39:16
you feel? Is it is it exhausting talking
01:39:18
about it?
01:39:19
>> Um, I feel like I've got a lot better.
01:39:21
It used to be bloody tiring talking
01:39:23
about it. Um, the scariest part is when
01:39:27
it comes out online
01:39:30
because when you talk you're talking
01:39:31
about it, the scariest part is
01:39:33
listening.
01:39:34
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:35
>> Or people messaging you cuz they've
01:39:36
heard it or whatever.
01:39:37
>> The scariest part is knowing that people
01:39:40
are going to hear this.
01:39:41
>> Yeah.
01:39:41
>> That's the scary part.
01:39:43
>> But it's um
01:39:44
>> but it's worth it. It's powerful. It's
01:39:46
impactful. You're doing it to help
01:39:47
others and you got to bring it back to
01:39:48
your why. But that's the scariest part
01:39:51
for me.
01:39:51
>> Absolutely. and and people have to
01:39:54
listen to like an hour of us talking
01:39:55
about cricket before they get to this
01:39:56
stuff.
01:39:56
>> I know they might give up.
01:40:00
>> Um all right, we'll end with some
01:40:01
light-hearted ones. Um thanks for being
01:40:03
so open about about that. Um I just
01:40:06
realized the other day, so um the
01:40:07
Olympics are on in Brisbane in 2032.
01:40:10
>> 2032. So you'll that's um like what 9
01:40:13
years from now? No.
01:40:14
>> Yeah. 9 years from now. So you'll be
01:40:16
>> 31.
01:40:17
>> Yeah. So, you probably don't want to get
01:40:19
that far ahead of yourself, but it's
01:40:20
entirely possible that um that cricket
01:40:22
will be a sport at those games. And so,
01:40:24
you could go to the Olympics.
01:40:26
>> Yes, that is cool. And I love Brisbane.
01:40:28
I have like a little bit of a connection
01:40:30
now being with the Brisbane Heat. So,
01:40:32
great city. And yeah, growing up, you
01:40:34
watch the Olympics and you think that's
01:40:37
that's the that's what you want to be.
01:40:40
>> That's the pinnacle really. E amazing.
01:40:42
>> Yeah. Cuz you didn't see women's World
01:40:43
Cups on TV, but you saw the Olympics.
01:40:45
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:40:46
>> So that's a childhood dream.
01:40:49
>> [ __ ] How good. And entirely possible.
01:40:51
>> Yeah.
01:40:52
>> Entirely possible. What have you thought
01:40:53
about what you want to do beyond cricket
01:40:55
or not?
01:40:56
>> Um I do think about it.
01:40:58
>> You still studying? You're doing it.
01:40:59
>> No, I'm not studying at the moment. Um
01:41:01
>> No. Good call. No name.
01:41:03
>> Thank you. It's Yeah, I'm enjoying not
01:41:05
studying.
01:41:08
>> Good go easy on yourself. Calm the [ __ ]
01:41:10
down.
01:41:10
>> It is nice. It is nice not having a
01:41:13
deadline.
01:41:15
Um, but I guess this I'm hope stuff and
01:41:18
the trending ward has been a real
01:41:19
passion project and that keeps me busy
01:41:22
away from cricket and I love that. What
01:41:25
I I know what I want to do is help
01:41:27
people. So I don't know in what capacity
01:41:31
that will be but it's along those lines
01:41:33
and I think
01:41:36
yeah help people. I want to bring people
01:41:38
together and I quite like the idea of
01:41:42
therapy through sport and music. I guess
01:41:44
that's two things that have have helped
01:41:47
me.
01:41:47
>> Thank you. Yeah.
01:41:49
>> That's cool. Well, I mean um we've uh
01:41:53
touched upon the perfectionism thing.
01:41:54
So, whatever you do, I'm sure you're
01:41:56
going to do do it very very well and
01:41:59
challenge yourself and be hard on
01:42:00
yourself. And you know, you mentioned
01:42:02
you want to since your your sister in
01:42:04
her speech talking about having kids and
01:42:05
you want your kids to play together, you
01:42:07
you do want a family.
01:42:08
>> Yeah.
01:42:09
>> How you how this is the hard thing. I
01:42:11
touched on this with Susie Bates. How
01:42:13
like it it's problematic, isn't it? How
01:42:15
do you fit it in?
01:42:16
>> Yeah. Well, I think
01:42:17
>> you take a year off. Maybe it's
01:42:19
>> Yeah. Take a year off. It's been awesome
01:42:20
seeing other female athletes do it. like
01:42:23
Amy Sith did it for the White Fins and
01:42:27
came back and I've seen other people do
01:42:30
do it. You know, there's a Aussie
01:42:32
women's footballer I know. I think she
01:42:34
came back after after giving birth. So,
01:42:37
it's possible and I think that's the
01:42:39
great thing that it's that it's
01:42:40
possible. But I for me, like I talk
01:42:42
about I knew I wanted to be a white firm
01:42:44
when I was about nine. I think something
01:42:46
I've always known is that I want my own
01:42:48
family. And that's cuz family to me is
01:42:52
everything because of the family I've
01:42:53
grown up in. And
01:42:55
>> so yeah, I don't know. I would
01:42:57
definitely I'd put I'll put my family
01:42:59
first before cricket. So whether that
01:43:01
means retiring earlier or taking a
01:43:03
break, I know for me, you know,
01:43:05
cricket's this short period of time, but
01:43:07
family's forever. M well and when you
01:43:10
see like your um your friends/ idols
01:43:12
like um Susie and Sophie who are in
01:43:15
their like mid to late 30s and they're
01:43:16
still [ __ ] kicking ass,
01:43:18
>> you must think, well, I'm only 22. I
01:43:20
could take a year off, two years off and
01:43:21
I still got ages to go.
01:43:23
>> Yeah. I mean, I want to play cricket for
01:43:25
as long as I can, as much as I enjoy it.
01:43:28
And I think, you know, I love being
01:43:29
competitive. I love getting better each
01:43:31
day. And that's what professional sport
01:43:33
allows you to do. Um but yeah, people
01:43:36
have taken breaks and come back and come
01:43:37
back stronger. So yeah, I mean, who
01:43:41
knows what will happen in the future,
01:43:42
but yeah, I definitely definitely want
01:43:45
to have a family of my own one day, but
01:43:47
no time soon. I'm too young for that.
01:43:50
>> And um so your partner, you've been
01:43:52
together like a year and a year and a
01:43:54
bit.
01:43:54
>> Yeah.
01:43:55
>> Yeah.
01:43:56
>> Um yeah. How do you like that? Must be
01:43:59
hard to make that work. Like you're
01:44:01
we're meeting in um Mount Monganui today
01:44:04
and you're off to the UK. Where are you
01:44:06
going next?
01:44:06
>> South Africa.
01:44:07
>> South Africa.
01:44:08
>> Like how many how many weeks a year are
01:44:09
you at home?
01:44:10
>> Yeah, I I mean it it changes each year.
01:44:13
But um now he's a cricketer himself and
01:44:17
with the Wellington Firebird, so he gets
01:44:20
it and um I think that's the the main
01:44:23
thing. and communicating well as well I
01:44:26
guess is important because when you're
01:44:27
away that's the you know that's the only
01:44:29
way you can talk to each other so you
01:44:32
have to communicate um but yeah it's
01:44:35
just valuing the time you have with each
01:44:37
other as well and understanding it like
01:44:40
we're both young you want to
01:44:41
>> go both do do what you love and and have
01:44:46
someone that supports that and I think
01:44:48
for us we're both lucky that we get it
01:44:52
um
01:44:52
>> but yeah I And it's definitely going to
01:44:55
be be it'll probably just get harder cuz
01:44:57
there's going to be more cricket. But I
01:45:00
guess you know if you want it to work,
01:45:01
you find a way and you make it work.
01:45:03
>> Yeah, absolutely. If it's meant to be,
01:45:04
it'll it'll figure its way out.
01:45:06
>> But yeah, it does make it tough.
01:45:08
Definitely.
01:45:09
>> Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah. Yes. Yes.
01:45:11
Susie had um some sort of um theory
01:45:13
which I've never sort of thought of. She
01:45:15
said there's a lot of like samesex
01:45:16
relationships in women's cricket and she
01:45:18
she puts that down to the fact that um
01:45:20
you're away so much
01:45:23
convenience sort of thing in a way which
01:45:24
is an interesting
01:45:25
>> and it's it's accepted as well and in
01:45:28
that environment and
01:45:30
>> yeah you spend a lot of time with those
01:45:33
people. So, but yeah, I mean, yeah, you
01:45:37
find a way to make it work and
01:45:40
>> and hopefully your travel can, you know,
01:45:42
if you're playing cricket in the same
01:45:44
country at the same time, it it can work
01:45:46
and and whatnot. So,
01:45:47
>> yeah.
01:45:48
>> Yeah.
01:45:48
>> Oh, how good. Hey, well, that's probably
01:45:50
a good place to wrap it up. Unless
01:45:52
there's anything that um I haven't
01:45:53
bought bought bought up or touched upon
01:45:55
that you want to.
01:45:56
>> No, happy. Thank you.
01:45:58
>> Oh, thank you uh for being so generous
01:46:00
with your time. We've been going for
01:46:01
almost two hours and I I can't thank you
01:46:03
enough. Your your poor um teammates who
01:46:06
you're grooming kick them out.
01:46:07
>> Kick them out. Where have they been for
01:46:09
the last two hours?
01:46:10
>> Someone else is very
01:46:12
>> Yeah, maybe I have to buy them dinner or
01:46:13
something.
01:46:14
>> Oh, that's great. Me Kur, thank you so
01:46:16
much for your time. You're a great New
01:46:17
Zealander and um yeah. Yeah, I'm just
01:46:21
I'm actually humbled to be in your in
01:46:22
your presence. Like the stuff that
01:46:23
you're doing outside of cricket is just
01:46:25
phenomenal and it's um changing lives
01:46:27
and saving lives.
01:46:29
>> Thank you, Dom. No, I appreciate and
01:46:30
appreciate all you do. Like your podcast
01:46:32
channel is amazing and um you've allowed
01:46:36
people to open up with you and that's
01:46:38
that's a credit to you when you get
01:46:40
people to open up. So, it's it's been
01:46:43
great to chat and to finally meet you in
01:46:46
person.
01:46:47
>> Finally.
01:46:48
>> I appreciate it. You're the best.
