00:00:06
Josh Coleman, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:09
>> It's great to be here, Dom. It really is
00:00:11
from the first time we spoke to being
00:00:12
here in your studio. Awesome to see the
00:00:14
growth in you, man.
00:00:15
>> Thanks, mate. Yeah, you're a you're a
00:00:17
two-time guest. Um
00:00:19
I I went back and listened to our
00:00:21
podcast yesterday. So, this was um
00:00:23
around about 3 years ago. It was episode
00:00:25
25 of Runners Only with Dom Harvey. Um,
00:00:29
now it's just called the Dom Harvey
00:00:30
podcast. I don't know how many episodes
00:00:32
I've done now. I've stopped counting,
00:00:33
but it's up near a couple of hundred.
00:00:35
>> Thousands. Um, but last time, um, yeah.
00:00:38
Can you remember the surroundings?
00:00:41
>> I do. It was, um, Hegley on the park,
00:00:43
wasn't it? In your hotel room. And I
00:00:45
hadn't met you before. I only knew a
00:00:47
little bit about you, and I was quite
00:00:49
apprehensive of what was going to
00:00:50
happen. We walked up to the hotel room,
00:00:52
there's clothes everywhere,
00:00:55
dirty laundry on the ground, your little
00:00:57
box. What's what's it called?
00:00:58
>> A roadcaster box.
00:00:59
>> The road cer box on the table. It was
00:01:01
just an intimate interview in your hotel
00:01:03
room, mate. Kleenex, tissues on the
00:01:05
ground.
00:01:06
>> No, no, I'm only joking.
00:01:07
>> He's embellishing. He's embellishing.
00:01:09
Yeah, well, it was um Yes. So, that was
00:01:11
in the early stages of the podcast and
00:01:13
um there's a lot that's happened in um
00:01:16
actually both our lives since then.
00:01:18
>> Yeah. But it's amazing to see your
00:01:19
growth, John, from the hotel room to
00:01:21
here now. So, thanks for having me on
00:01:22
>> and Oh, no. Anytime. I I assumed cuz you
00:01:25
reached out to me and I assumed you were
00:01:26
in Oakuckland for something else and you
00:01:28
were like, "I may as well smash out a
00:01:29
podcast while I'm here." You came up
00:01:31
especially to do the podcast.
00:01:33
>> Yeah. Yeah. It was funny cuz every time
00:01:34
I've been in Oakuckland, you've reached
00:01:36
out to me and said, "Hey, let's catch
00:01:37
up." So, I've caught up a couple of
00:01:38
times and had a good conversation and
00:01:40
then you mentioned to me, "Hey, you
00:01:41
should come on your podcast." And I
00:01:43
turned you down. That's just me. Oh,
00:01:44
I've already been on. Then I had a good
00:01:46
chat to well, I'd say she's a friend
00:01:48
now, Die Foster. And she's like, "You
00:01:50
don't turn that stuff down." She gave me
00:01:52
a good kick up the ass. And then so I
00:01:54
reached out out to you to go, "Hey man,
00:01:55
I'm gonna take you up on your offer." So
00:01:58
yeah,
00:01:58
>> absolutely. Well, it's great to have you
00:01:59
back on. Um, yes, there's there's video
00:02:02
now as well, so people can like last
00:02:04
time there was no I may have recorded
00:02:05
some of it on my phone leaning against
00:02:07
the coffee cup. I can't
00:02:09
>> But we've got cameras now, so people can
00:02:11
get the full Josh Kman story experience.
00:02:15
>> Sure.
00:02:15
>> So Josh Kleman, who who is he? Well, you
00:02:19
were one of New Zealand's most promising
00:02:20
middle distance runners. uh battled
00:02:22
leukemia twice and endured years of
00:02:24
grueling treatment including a bone
00:02:26
marrow transplant and various
00:02:28
complications for that that tried to
00:02:29
take you out. Now you spread the
00:02:32
importance of perspective, gratitude and
00:02:34
the importance of living life fully.
00:02:36
Would that be fair?
00:02:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean I just see myself as
00:02:39
a word of encouragement to other people.
00:02:41
I think I've got a responsibility to
00:02:43
share the tools and
00:02:47
things that I've acquired to help other
00:02:49
people through through their own
00:02:50
difficulties in life.
00:02:52
>> Yeah.
00:02:52
>> So, just a word of encouragement.
00:02:55
>> Um, we will get through like everything
00:02:57
you've been through from a health
00:02:58
perspective. That all started in 2011.
00:03:01
>> 2011. Yeah.
00:03:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How are you now?
00:03:04
Like physically, how are you today and
00:03:05
and in general?
00:03:07
>> That's a real good question, Dom. It
00:03:09
really is. Yeah, it is. Yeah, mentally
00:03:11
I'm really really good. I'm really good
00:03:14
cuz I have a perspective of where I've
00:03:15
been and I don't ever want to lose that
00:03:17
perspective cuz I understand I wake up,
00:03:19
you know, what's the worst thing that
00:03:20
could happen. I've been there. I know
00:03:22
what could happen. However, I have this,
00:03:24
you know, wealth of gratitude within me.
00:03:26
I'm just so grateful for everything
00:03:27
that's coming into my life because I
00:03:29
know how bad it can get. So, mentally,
00:03:31
I'm very good. However, my body I do
00:03:34
struggle with. You know, I do have
00:03:35
issues from my transplant. I acquired
00:03:37
this graph rejection from my transplant
00:03:39
which we'll talk about later. And that
00:03:41
gives me um a lot of pain, a lot of
00:03:44
discomfort. I Yeah. And I struggle with
00:03:47
it a lot, you know, especially with my
00:03:48
energy levels. My body's kind of glued
00:03:50
together. So I I really struggle,
00:03:53
especially when I go to bed. A lot of
00:03:54
people don't realize this, but during
00:03:56
the day, I might might seem fine
00:03:57
visually, but in the night, my body kind
00:03:59
of locks up. I have these convulsions,
00:04:01
these spasms, these kind of cramps that
00:04:03
really take a lot out of me.
00:04:05
>> And then my eyes, too. I mean, I don't
00:04:07
produce tears, nor do I produce saliva.
00:04:09
So, I've had a lot of teeth pulled out.
00:04:10
I've got this little thing in my hand.
00:04:12
Water. I have to keep drinking water all
00:04:15
the time. I've had an amniotic membrane
00:04:17
graft, which is a bit of placenta put in
00:04:18
my eye to help heal my eyes cuz I
00:04:20
visually couldn't see at the end of last
00:04:22
year in my right eye. So, I have a whole
00:04:24
host of problems, but the physicality of
00:04:25
myself, I really struggle with, but
00:04:27
mentally, I'm very, very good cuz I've
00:04:29
done a lot of work there.
00:04:32
>> So, what's your what's your life
00:04:33
expectancy now?
00:04:35
I don't know. That's up to me to decide,
00:04:37
isn't it?
00:04:38
>> Yeah.
00:04:38
>> Yeah. I mean, physically, on a physical
00:04:41
level, I see myself physically like a
00:04:43
50-year-old, but mentally, I feel like
00:04:45
an 18-year-old,
00:04:46
>> you know, I feel great. I've got a young
00:04:48
girl, and she just keeps me alive. You
00:04:49
know, she brings that inner child out of
00:04:51
me.
00:04:51
>> So, on that aspect, I I I get to choose
00:04:55
when I'm going to die.
00:04:57
>> I mean, theoretically, not reality. So,
00:05:01
I see myself living as long as I can.
00:05:03
But are you in are you in constant sort
00:05:05
of pain or discomfort?
00:05:06
>> Yeah, discomfort is the word. I have a
00:05:08
lot of pain in the evening, especially
00:05:09
when my body locks up and if I exert
00:05:12
myself too much, but even if I don't
00:05:14
exert myself too much, my body can just
00:05:15
turn on me. So, I start to really lock
00:05:18
up. So, it's like wearing a wet suit
00:05:20
sometimes while there's some needles
00:05:21
kind of pushing through. It's it's yeah,
00:05:23
it is dehabilitating. However, I've got
00:05:26
the mental aptitude to kind of override
00:05:28
it now. Slow down my respiratory rate.
00:05:29
Think more rationally. I'm okay. got a
00:05:32
perspective of gratitude of where I've
00:05:34
been. It's not as bad as this. Keep
00:05:35
going forward. You've got so much in
00:05:37
your life. It's okay. Yeah.
00:05:40
>> It's a rough hand though. I
00:05:41
>> It is a rough hand.
00:05:42
>> Like I I mean um
00:05:45
Yeah. It'd be understandable if you had
00:05:47
like moments or periods of self-pity.
00:05:49
>> Yeah. Which I have had. Which I have.
00:05:51
>> And you still do or no?
00:05:52
>> No, not anymore. No. I mean, I read a
00:05:55
book, great book, and it's changed my
00:05:57
life. than actually doing a diploma in
00:05:58
his psychological methods called
00:06:00
logotherapy meaning therapy through
00:06:02
Victor Frankle Institute. So I read
00:06:03
Victor Frankle's book man's search for
00:06:05
meaning and that just changed my whole
00:06:06
perspective and it wasn't about a
00:06:08
freedom from this disease. It was a
00:06:10
freedom to where could I go I had the
00:06:12
freedom to choose where I wanted to go
00:06:14
and I have the freedom to choose my
00:06:15
attitude. So my attitudinal change has
00:06:18
has um changed me significantly. That's
00:06:21
the that's the freedom that I do have to
00:06:22
choose my attitude in any given
00:06:24
situation. Just like Victor Frankle when
00:06:26
he spent three years in four different
00:06:28
um prisoner of war camps through the
00:06:29
Holocaust. You know, he had an amazing
00:06:32
positive attitude and I get to choose
00:06:33
that. So when the pain and discomfort
00:06:35
comes, I can slow myself down and
00:06:37
understand that I do have choice of my
00:06:39
attitude and look at what I do have in
00:06:41
front of me. I have more in my life than
00:06:43
I could ever fathom on when I've been
00:06:45
told that I could have died multiple
00:06:47
times and here I am alive talking to a
00:06:50
good friend Dom Harvey on his podcast up
00:06:52
in Oakuckland. How cool is that, man?
00:06:54
>> You know, and that outweighs the pain
00:06:55
and discomfort I carry.
00:06:58
>> That book, by the way, Man's Search for
00:06:59
Meaning, one of my favorite books of all
00:07:00
time. I I can't tell you how many times
00:07:02
I've I've purchased a copy of it because
00:07:04
it's uh you loan it to someone and then
00:07:06
you know you're never going to get it
00:07:07
back. I reckon I've probably purchased
00:07:08
it maybe a dozen times, 15 times. Um and
00:07:11
so many guests on the podcast have
00:07:13
referenced that book as well. For anyone
00:07:15
that um is perhaps just hearing about it
00:07:18
for the first time, Victor Frankle's Man
00:07:19
Search for Meaning like what's the
00:07:21
synopsis? How would you describe it?
00:07:23
>> Oh, it's finding basically meaning in
00:07:24
the moment. Um we have a search for
00:07:27
meaning. So Victor Frankle was he had
00:07:30
the third pillar of V& psychology. So
00:07:32
there was Sigman Freud who were had he
00:07:34
come up with the idea of will to
00:07:35
pleasure and Aldis Adler Albert Adler he
00:07:38
had the will to power. So humans were
00:07:40
driven by pleasure and humans were
00:07:42
driven by power. But Africa Frankle
00:07:44
said, "No, humans have an innate drive
00:07:46
for meaning. We need to find meaning in
00:07:48
our life and meaning can be different
00:07:49
from what you think and what I think.
00:07:51
But we have moments of meaning all
00:07:52
around us." And that's what Victor
00:07:54
Frankle was very good. And he proved his
00:07:55
theory within the Holocaust. Seeing
00:07:58
people who had a meaning and a purpose
00:07:59
within that, helping others, reaching
00:08:01
out, helping other people, finding
00:08:02
meaning, a bit like what you do. I mean,
00:08:05
here's a good example. You go down and
00:08:07
get your coffee at New World, but you're
00:08:09
not going down there to get a coffee.
00:08:10
You connect with an individual down
00:08:12
there who you give a fright, and now you
00:08:13
become a friend. See, there's meaning
00:08:15
there. See, that's that's meaning of the
00:08:17
moment. You're not just going to get a
00:08:18
coffee, but you're connecting with an
00:08:19
individual.
00:08:20
>> Yeah, that's very charitable of you. I
00:08:21
like to think I'm just keeping myself
00:08:23
amused.
00:08:24
>> For sure. But it's a connection. You've
00:08:26
made a new connection. And that's what
00:08:27
that's what he think that's what Victor
00:08:29
Frankle says that we have an innate will
00:08:31
to search for meaning within our life.
00:08:32
And that could be small moments of
00:08:34
meaning or big moments of meaning. M
00:08:37
>> when did you first get introduced to
00:08:39
that book?
00:08:39
>> Uh from my first diagnosis. I was
00:08:42
talking to my counselor um when I was
00:08:43
getting psychological help. He was
00:08:45
really helped me and he recommended that
00:08:46
book and I and I read it and it just
00:08:48
transformed my life.
00:08:48
>> Yeah. And now what you're doing a
00:08:50
diploma about it now?
00:08:51
>> Yeah. So I'm halfway through a diploma
00:08:52
in the Victor Frankle Institute. I have
00:08:54
a clinical psychologist going through my
00:08:56
papers the self-re reflective papers
00:08:59
plus educational papers. I'm learning a
00:09:01
lot. So yeah,
00:09:03
>> you you ran 10 km last year. Yeah. Um
00:09:07
why why why are you laughing? Just
00:09:10
>> just just the whole Yeah. The whole
00:09:12
event Harry spied and Harry took a lot
00:09:14
out of me.
00:09:15
>> Right. Yeah. Cuz you um we'll get into
00:09:17
the Josh Kman back story, but um like
00:09:18
10k for you pre 2011 was like no big
00:09:22
deal. Like you probably wouldn't even
00:09:24
bother lacing up for less than 10 km.
00:09:26
>> Yeah. I was about a 31 32 minute K 10k
00:09:28
runner. I wasn't a 10k runner per se. I
00:09:30
was a track runner. Yeah. But yeah,
00:09:32
middle distance 32s.
00:09:33
>> Yeah. Um, yeah. So, how how is that now?
00:09:37
Like for you to get to the point where
00:09:38
you can run 10 km.
00:09:40
>> Yeah. Um,
00:09:42
it's hard to describe how grateful I am
00:09:44
to run again when you've been told that
00:09:45
you possibly couldn't.
00:09:46
>> So, I achieved that. However, I did push
00:09:48
it a bit too much. Um, running 10k as I
00:09:51
said about my body, how it locks up. You
00:09:52
know, I was like this running orgasm
00:09:54
towards the end. I was just trying to
00:09:56
hold myself together. But, I had a great
00:09:58
crew around me. I had some real good
00:09:59
support and we were doing it for for a
00:10:01
phenomenal cause called Ranoi House, a
00:10:02
place that I spent um a lot of time at.
00:10:05
It helped me out through a through a
00:10:06
very difficult time. We can talk about
00:10:07
that later. But um there was real
00:10:09
meaning behind it why I was doing it. So
00:10:11
the pain kind of um diminished when I
00:10:15
when I had the meaning associated to
00:10:17
what I was doing. But yeah, it did take
00:10:18
a lot out of me.
00:10:19
>> So So 10K for you now would be like say
00:10:22
>> an ultram.
00:10:23
>> Yeah. Okay. For someone else
00:10:25
>> 100%. Yeah. and and Rano House who you
00:10:27
ran the 10K for. Is is that you spent a
00:10:30
long long time there like 400 days or
00:10:32
something?
00:10:32
>> Yeah. Three no 372 nights. Yeah.
00:10:35
>> And is is that where where you you
00:10:38
considered and almost took your own
00:10:39
life.
00:10:40
>> Yeah, that was the place. So Rani House,
00:10:42
I mean it provides accommodation. It's
00:10:43
the largest um provider for
00:10:45
accommodation for patients and families
00:10:46
that need long-term care. Um most of
00:10:49
those people are needing lifetime treat
00:10:52
lifesaving treatment. Um, I stayed 372
00:10:56
nights there. And the cool thing about
00:10:57
Ranoi House, Ranoi House stands for big
00:10:59
warm house. It's for everybody. So, it's
00:11:01
not specifically for cancer patients or
00:11:03
bone marrow transplant patients like
00:11:05
myself. It's for everyone. If you had a
00:11:07
car crash, if you're on diialysis, um,
00:11:09
if you're having a premature birth, um,
00:11:11
or, you know, you're spending time in
00:11:13
ICU, I meet a whole host of people. And
00:11:15
meeting those people with different um
00:11:18
diagnosis
00:11:19
and different different um medical
00:11:23
issues really changed my perspective as
00:11:26
well because it wasn't just about me. So
00:11:28
this is a great place for community and
00:11:29
connection house. It's got 61
00:11:32
apartments, the largest provider in
00:11:34
South Island for patients and families.
00:11:36
An amazing place. It it really is a big
00:11:39
warm house.
00:11:40
>> Oh, thank you for giving them the
00:11:41
flowers they deserve.
00:11:42
>> Oh, they deserve so much. No one's got a
00:11:44
bad word to say it. I mean, your health
00:11:45
your health is impeded, but also too,
00:11:47
your finances are impeded as well. And
00:11:49
you can stay there for free. They have
00:11:51
um monthly cook cooking. People come in
00:11:53
and cook for you. There's always food in
00:11:54
the fridge. It's an amazing place and
00:11:56
it's a real family orientated um
00:11:59
organization. Ranoi House.
00:12:00
>> Does it get some government funding or
00:12:02
is it mainly just donations from
00:12:04
>> mainly donations? It's a charitable
00:12:05
trust. So, the charitable trust is
00:12:07
called the bone marrow cancer trust.
00:12:08
That trust was established in 1990. They
00:12:11
established the first bone marrow unit
00:12:12
for transplant patients like myself in
00:12:14
1991 and then and that was the bone
00:12:17
marrow unit. Then they created Ranoi
00:12:19
House cuz they need showed that people
00:12:21
needed long-term care.
00:12:23
>> So they um created Ranoi House got 26
00:12:27
more apartments and now they got 61
00:12:29
apartments at Big Ranoi. So it's pretty
00:12:31
awesome that there's got this housing
00:12:33
complex and it's like a motel d. It's
00:12:35
like you're walking into a fivestar
00:12:36
motel. It's incredible. And you get to
00:12:38
connect with individuals and that's the
00:12:39
special thing about it because we know
00:12:41
when families stay together, people heal
00:12:43
faster.
00:12:44
>> Yeah.
00:12:44
>> Yeah. You love connecting with people,
00:12:46
eh? Like whenever whenever we uh catch
00:12:48
up now, like it's never it's never just
00:12:50
a surface level conversation. It's never
00:12:52
just small talk about about the Warriors
00:12:54
or what. Not that there's anything wrong
00:12:56
with that, but yeah, you like to go deep
00:12:58
very quickly with people.
00:13:00
>> Yeah, I do. I like I like to see who
00:13:01
they are, what makes them tick. Um that
00:13:04
gives me true meaning. M
00:13:05
>> I mean even in my keynotes, you know, I
00:13:07
do my talk, but it's the ability to
00:13:08
connect with individuals. I'm talking
00:13:10
for 45 minutes to an hour, but then I
00:13:12
listen, you know, and I've managed to
00:13:13
connect with some amazing individuals
00:13:15
after these talks.
00:13:16
>> You weren't like that before 2011, eh?
00:13:18
>> No, no. I was means to myself,
00:13:21
>> you know, head down, keep working, don't
00:13:23
talk, get it done. Get it done.
00:13:25
>> Yeah. Get it done.
00:13:26
>> Get it done.
00:13:27
>> Yeah. What would that Josh um
00:13:29
pre-illness think of Josh now? I think
00:13:31
he'd be very proud of himself to see the
00:13:32
change in growth that that's acquired
00:13:34
through his own um through his own
00:13:36
tragedies.
00:13:37
>> Yeah.
00:13:38
>> Yeah. It's incredible.
00:13:39
>> Oh, you so you mentioned um bone marrow
00:13:41
transplant which makes you um eligible
00:13:43
for a thing called the transplant games.
00:13:45
So you're going to Germany later this
00:13:47
year to represent NZ.
00:13:48
>> I am. Yeah. So there's a team of 12 that
00:13:52
are going to Germany in Dston. Um it's
00:13:56
it's amazing because that you know 14
00:13:58
years ago Dom I got told well I thought
00:14:01
my dream was dead and I thought I was
00:14:03
dying being diagnosed with leukemia. One
00:14:05
of the fastest 800 meter runners in New
00:14:07
Zealand. My dream was to represent New
00:14:09
Zealand. That was my dream since a kid
00:14:10
to don the silver fan. I love New
00:14:12
Zealand. I'm just so I just love it.
00:14:15
>> And to see that dream taken away it just
00:14:17
it it messed with me psychologically. I
00:14:19
thought all the doors were closed. My
00:14:21
dream was dead. I'm dying. What's the
00:14:22
meaning of my life? What's the purpose?
00:14:24
It's gone. So, I've worked very hard to
00:14:26
get myself back on my feet running 10K,
00:14:28
seeing my limits, finding my limits.
00:14:30
I've found my limits and now this
00:14:31
opportunity is arisen called the World
00:14:33
Transplant Games. It's really really
00:14:36
hard to qualify for. Dom,
00:14:38
>> you have to have a transplant, mate.
00:14:40
>> Yeah. So, that that's any transplant
00:14:42
that may be heart, that may be liver,
00:14:43
that may be kidney, that may be a
00:14:45
pancreas, that may be lungs. And for me,
00:14:46
it's a bone marrow in my immune system.
00:14:48
So, I've qualified and yes, the dreams
00:14:50
come back alive um to run in Germany in
00:14:53
Dresden, run the 800 m for New Zealand.
00:14:56
Um and the cool thing about it, Dom,
00:14:58
this is the real special thing about it
00:15:00
is that we're in Dresden in Germany,
00:15:04
that's where my stem cells came from.
00:15:06
So, it's this full circle moment just
00:15:08
closing up. So 14 years later where my
00:15:11
donor donated his stem cells where that
00:15:13
city saved my life. This person um you
00:15:17
know donated selflessly donated I get to
00:15:21
go there compete and I think that's the
00:15:25
ultimate thank you to everybody that's
00:15:26
helped me in my life. The ultimate thank
00:15:28
you to say hey your dream wasn't dead.
00:15:31
You're not dying. You're alive. You're
00:15:33
here. You still have opportunities. And
00:15:35
now I have this straight, man. And it's
00:15:38
it's so special, man. Because it's a
00:15:40
thank you to the medical staff that have
00:15:42
helped me. It's,
00:15:43
>> you know, I've been through a lot
00:15:47
to my wife and daughter and and my
00:15:48
family and my friends, man.
00:15:53
>> You um
00:15:54
>> Yeah, I I sort of I forgot the specifics
00:15:57
of um our first podcast from 3 years
00:15:59
ago, but I relisted to it yesterday to
00:16:01
jog my memory. And um that was a very
00:16:03
emotional podcast as well. I think um
00:16:05
both you and I cried a few times in it.
00:16:08
Um and something that I I observed
00:16:11
listening to it again. Every time you
00:16:14
get emotional, it's like um gratitude
00:16:15
tears.
00:16:16
>> Yeah, it is.
00:16:17
>> There's never any like self-pity tears
00:16:19
or anything. You just get emotional when
00:16:20
you're talking about your mom or your
00:16:21
wife or just other other people that
00:16:24
have done like nice things for you.
00:16:26
>> You you nailed it. And it becomes a
00:16:28
prediction error, you know, like here I
00:16:30
am living this incredible life that I
00:16:33
didn't think I'd ever have wanting to
00:16:34
take my life and I've got life back and
00:16:37
the memories come back and you and it
00:16:38
just flashes through like a deck of
00:16:40
cards like all these people that have
00:16:42
come in and helped you and given you
00:16:44
words of encouragement, held your hand,
00:16:46
you know, put your arm around you and it
00:16:48
and it's really overwhelmed and and
00:16:51
>> maybe I'm on this podcast and thank you
00:16:53
sometimes doesn't do it justice. the
00:16:55
word thank you. You know, I've got a
00:16:57
saying, you know, let us love not in
00:16:59
word and speech but in truth and action.
00:17:01
So, I'm trying to let my truth and
00:17:03
actions say thank you to the people.
00:17:05
>> Hence, this transplant games is so
00:17:07
meaningful to me. And I think that's the
00:17:08
ultimate thank you to say thank you to
00:17:10
my donor. Thank you to that medical
00:17:11
staff and all the people that have
00:17:12
helped me.
00:17:13
>> It it is I do get emotional because
00:17:16
that's what life's about is connection.
00:17:17
That's the foundation of health. That's
00:17:18
what I believe.
00:17:19
>> Yeah. Ju just for a bit of perspective.
00:17:21
So, um, say 2010 when you're at the peak
00:17:24
of your athletic powers. One of the best
00:17:28
if not the best if not one of the best.
00:17:29
>> No, no, no, no. I was not the best. I
00:17:32
was working my way.
00:17:33
>> Oh, you were right up there though. 800
00:17:34
meter specialist. One of And your your
00:17:36
1500 meter time was
00:17:38
>> Yeah.
00:17:39
>> 350.
00:17:39
>> Yeah. 350. I was a 150 800 meter runner.
00:17:42
I had two silver senior men's um
00:17:44
national silver men's in in the 800 m.
00:17:48
20 years old and 22 years old. M
00:17:50
>> um but for me coming from Greymouth I
00:17:53
was quite an unknown athlete. I was
00:17:55
known in Canterbury but I hadn't done
00:17:56
much racing around the country. I made a
00:17:58
move to Christ Church and my training
00:18:00
got better. You know I got myself
00:18:01
surrounded by good people. I was in a
00:18:03
good environment and this is where I
00:18:05
knew holy moly my dream might come to
00:18:07
fruition. You know I was going I was
00:18:09
training really well hitting the times.
00:18:11
I ran a sub 150 time trial and I was
00:18:14
like holy smokes. I ran I got the number
00:18:16
one ranking in New Zealand for only for
00:18:18
only for a few weeks but I was so proud
00:18:20
I was like this is my year you know
00:18:21
where I'm going to break through.
00:18:23
>> Um but yeah it was shortlived.
00:18:24
>> It was shortlived but yeah I was a good
00:18:26
runner but I wasn't a great runner. I
00:18:28
wasn't like a Sam Ruth or or a Sam
00:18:30
Tanner who are just phenomenal. I wasn't
00:18:32
in that level. Yeah, Sam Sam Ruth, by
00:18:34
the way, just to time stamp this
00:18:35
conversation, um the week that we're
00:18:36
recording this, he just um set the world
00:18:39
record for being um the the youngest
00:18:42
>> youngest boy
00:18:43
>> on the planet to run a sub4minute mile,
00:18:46
like 3 minutes 58, and he's
00:18:48
>> um 15 closer to 16 than 15, but still 15
00:18:52
years old. It's bonkers.
00:18:53
>> It's incredible the crazy
00:18:55
>> But the support, you know, I mean, it
00:18:57
might be a good guest to get on. Craig
00:18:58
Kirkwood, the coach, you know, he helps
00:19:00
out Hayden Wild, Sam Tanner, Sam Ruth.
00:19:02
He's got a good group going. Yeah. You
00:19:03
know, New Zealand athletics is really
00:19:05
alive and running. Excuse the pun.
00:19:07
>> Yeah. So, yes. So, so 2010 your your 800
00:19:11
meter time was a minute 50, which is
00:19:12
lightning quick. Um, like what would you
00:19:14
do for 800 meters at the Transplant
00:19:16
Games?
00:19:18
>> Um, probably about maybe four, just over
00:19:20
four minutes maybe. Yeah. I ran a mile
00:19:22
here. I ran a mile the other day. It was
00:19:24
8 minutes 41 seconds.
00:19:26
>> Mhm.
00:19:26
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:28
>> So, um, your morning routine now, do do
00:19:31
you have like a specific morning
00:19:32
routine?
00:19:33
>> Yep, I do.
00:19:34
>> What do you obviously out out of town at
00:19:35
the moment? Um, you're staying in
00:19:36
Oakuckland overnight, so it's probably
00:19:38
out. But what do you generally do Monday
00:19:39
to Friday?
00:19:40
>> Yeah, Monday to Friday it's cold
00:19:41
exposure. I've got an outside shower, I
00:19:43
got an ice bath, so I'll titrate between
00:19:44
a cold shower or an ice bath depending
00:19:46
on how I'm feeling.
00:19:47
>> Um, and then I'm on the got my feet on
00:19:50
the ground,
00:19:51
>> do some breathing, some nice slow
00:19:52
breathing, um, nasal breathing. sit
00:19:54
there for a bit, just go through my
00:19:56
life, you know, where have I been?
00:19:58
>> Moment of gratitude. I do some
00:19:59
stretching and some some more breathing
00:20:01
exercises.
00:20:02
>> Yeah.
00:20:03
>> Every damn day.
00:20:04
>> Every damn day. That's that's been my
00:20:05
routine. Even today was in Vic Park. I
00:20:07
went for a bit of a walk with my bare
00:20:08
feet, doing some breathing, did some
00:20:10
stretching, had a cold shower, not an
00:20:12
ice bath, but yeah, most of the days.
00:20:14
>> And the and the um the gratitude
00:20:16
practice, which has been such a huge
00:20:17
like cornerstone of your life. Um
00:20:20
>> yeah, what is it? Is it like the same
00:20:21
stuff every day or do you try and do
00:20:23
different stuff?
00:20:24
>> Yeah, to be fair, it's it's more so of a
00:20:26
prayer of thank you of just where I am
00:20:28
in my life right now and and it could be
00:20:29
short. Um, but it's not a practice
00:20:31
gratitude. I mean, I live live
00:20:33
gratitude. I really do every day, but
00:20:35
it's just a reflection of here I am. You
00:20:37
know, I'm I'm in a lot of discomfort in
00:20:39
the morning. So, I'm just trying to
00:20:41
override that discomfort with a with a
00:20:42
with a prayer of thanks. I'm still here.
00:20:44
I'm still alive. I've still got
00:20:45
opportunities. Let the day present
00:20:47
itself. That kind of thing.
00:20:48
>> Yeah.
00:20:49
>> Yeah. I'm I'm trying to get better at
00:20:51
that. E. Yeah. Cuz it's um it's it's so
00:20:54
important. But even um
00:20:56
>> you know, sometimes I find, you know,
00:20:58
you you just want you're wanting more
00:21:00
and you're not thankful for what you
00:21:01
already have when you already have a
00:21:02
lot.
00:21:03
>> Um it's like a like a real weird thing,
00:21:05
but I'm just trying to sort of center
00:21:06
myself with that.
00:21:07
>> Yeah. I mean, it's great that you want
00:21:09
more and want to be better, for sure.
00:21:10
But sometimes it's nice to just reflect
00:21:11
and stand still and like look how far
00:21:13
I've come. you know, from a hotel room
00:21:15
to Dom Harvey podcast in your studio.
00:21:17
It's nice to reflect on that and just
00:21:18
say, "Hey, you know, even though I want
00:21:20
to get there in the future, just
00:21:21
acknowledge where I am right now. That's
00:21:23
all it is."
00:21:24
>> Oh. Um, yeah. Some other stuff that's
00:21:26
happened since um we last connected for
00:21:28
a podcast in that hotel room. Um, at at
00:21:31
the time, your your wife was 8 months
00:21:33
pregnant. You now a dad.
00:21:34
>> Yeah.
00:21:35
>> How old's your daughter now?
00:21:36
>> She's two and a half.
00:21:37
>> Yeah. That's awesome. And and you were
00:21:39
on um you're on TV. I think it was like
00:21:41
seven sharp or the project for uh the
00:21:44
New Zealand record for the longest ice
00:21:45
bath.
00:21:46
>> Yeah, that was a awesome event. It
00:21:48
really was. Yeah. Um had my family
00:21:50
there, the daughter, everyone, some
00:21:52
really good mates. We did a fundraiser
00:21:53
for Randi House, which we just spoke
00:21:56
about. It was the unofficial New Zealand
00:21:58
record for an ice bar. It was a hyperbol
00:21:59
statement to get media attention, which
00:22:00
it did. And shout out to the New Zealand
00:22:03
public, man. They just got behind us.
00:22:04
you know, we managed to raise just over
00:22:06
$100,000 for Run the Wei House, a home
00:22:09
away from home for many patients who
00:22:10
need long-term care. Just incredible.
00:22:13
So, yeah, had my wife there. My wife and
00:22:15
friend don't get a lot of lot of credos
00:22:17
here. So, they were next to me in an ice
00:22:18
bath. Um, Hamish and and my wife Cibble.
00:22:21
They did 20 minutes. It was the coldest
00:22:23
day in Christ Church, I think, for 14
00:22:25
years in a March calendar year. Um, it
00:22:27
was 4° outside. The ice bath was 0.8. My
00:22:30
wife, she shot upstairs, was
00:22:32
breastfeeding my um beautiful daughter
00:22:34
an ice a milky ice shake and um yeah,
00:22:38
amazing amazing event. Yeah. So, thank
00:22:40
you for the New Zealand public for
00:22:41
getting on board and helping out run
00:22:43
that we house.
00:22:43
>> How long were you in the ice for?
00:22:44
>> I was in there for 21 minutes.
00:22:46
>> Yeah, it's like a frozen little white
00:22:48
bait in there, mate.
00:22:49
>> Yeah. Damn.
00:22:49
>> Y speaking of that, well, that's how
00:22:51
your your daughter was created. Like,
00:22:52
she was she was she spent the first 11
00:22:55
years of her sort of life as a frozen
00:22:58
sperm. Yeah, she did. She was on ice for
00:23:00
a very long time. She's the ice queen,
00:23:02
mate.
00:23:03
>> That's funny. Yeah.
00:23:04
>> Um Okay. All right. We'll go all the way
00:23:07
back to the the very beginning. So,
00:23:09
paint a picture of um Josh Comman like
00:23:11
pre- illness. Who was he? Typical
00:23:13
coaster.
00:23:13
>> Yeah. Typical coaster.
00:23:14
>> Staunchch. Hard.
00:23:15
>> Very Yeah, staunch. I had a a good
00:23:18
contrast between two parents. My dad was
00:23:19
a hardworking man. He come from a from a
00:23:22
difficult place. Had a very hard
00:23:24
childhood. Um and my mom was just this
00:23:26
loving, caring soul. So it was kind of
00:23:28
this hard determination, work hard and
00:23:29
this kind of care for other people. So I
00:23:31
had that from my mom and dad. Um
00:23:33
>> but your mom was definitely more the
00:23:35
nurturer.
00:23:36
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean my dad
00:23:38
didn't have a very good parenting
00:23:39
manual. Spent spent many years in an
00:23:40
orphanage. My grandfather came out from
00:23:43
Holland post Nazi um regime occupied in
00:23:47
Holland come out you know he had a gun
00:23:49
pointed towards his head set up a farm
00:23:51
in watera had five kids. His wife passed
00:23:53
away at 32. sent his kids to an
00:23:55
orphanage where a lot of things
00:23:57
occurred. You know, my dad didn't have
00:23:58
the best parenting manual, but what he
00:24:00
did have, what he wanted to give me was
00:24:02
opportunities that he never had. So, he
00:24:04
worked hard. So, I never really saw my
00:24:05
dad,
00:24:06
>> you know, and he'd love to hear this,
00:24:07
too, cuz he cuz he thought he got
00:24:09
portrayed as the [ __ ] last time in
00:24:11
the podcast, but he's a great guy
00:24:12
>> on this podcast.
00:24:14
>> Oh, did he?
00:24:14
>> No, he's a great guy, but he didn't have
00:24:16
the best parenting manual. And he would
00:24:17
admit that he wasn't the best father,
00:24:19
but he was trying to give me
00:24:20
opportunities that I didn't see. But me
00:24:22
being a kid, I didn't see that. I didn't
00:24:24
see that. You just want your dad's
00:24:25
attention. But he was working. Now I now
00:24:27
we connected through my own through my
00:24:29
diagnosis and I got to understand his
00:24:31
past.
00:24:32
>> So
00:24:32
>> yeah. And and in in some ways I suppose
00:24:34
him just working his ass off was his way
00:24:36
of showing love. Like putting food on
00:24:38
the table for the family.
00:24:39
>> Absolutely. And I credit the man so much
00:24:41
from where he's been to what where he's
00:24:43
come, what he's developed. And marrying
00:24:46
my mom, you know, was the best thing
00:24:47
that he did.
00:24:49
>> Yeah. also from like a generational
00:24:51
perspective. Um you know that that
00:24:53
vulnerability piece was never there with
00:24:54
that sort of that sort of gener was he
00:24:57
able to tell you that he loves you or no
00:24:59
not
00:25:00
>> was it like show you love with actions
00:25:02
rather than actually saying the words?
00:25:04
No, he did. He did. Yeah. Yeah, he did.
00:25:06
But then it's kind of contrasting as a
00:25:07
kid when you get a
00:25:09
>> disciplined in a in a physical way. So,
00:25:11
and it's like, did you mean that
00:25:13
>> as a kid? You don't understand that, but
00:25:15
that's just what he knew. That's totally
00:25:16
fine,
00:25:17
>> you know, and we laugh about stuff, man.
00:25:19
He's a great He's He's great. And, you
00:25:20
know, to be fair, he wants me to make
00:25:22
this comment, too. He was with my sister
00:25:23
in Brisbane, and his his um little
00:25:26
granddaughter, my niece, Ivy, looked up
00:25:27
at him and said, "Oh, I just want to be
00:25:29
like you, granddad. I love you." And
00:25:31
dad's like full so proud. today. Yeah.
00:25:34
Love your dad.
00:25:34
>> How um with you taking the lead with um
00:25:38
you know being open and vulnerable and
00:25:40
having these um
00:25:41
>> No, Dad took the lead on that.
00:25:42
>> Oh, did he?
00:25:42
>> Yeah, man. Yeah. Cuz I closed the door,
00:25:44
didn't want to talk, but he come into
00:25:46
the room
00:25:46
>> and he said, you know, he said a quote
00:25:48
that I use actually. He goes, "You're
00:25:49
not using all your strength unless you
00:25:51
ask for help." And he's crying and
00:25:52
that's and he just showed himself and I
00:25:55
was like, "Holy shit."
00:25:56
>> Is that the first time you saw him cry?
00:25:57
>> First time I really saw him cry. Yeah.
00:26:00
With real empathy and love. And it's
00:26:02
like, man. And and then we just started
00:26:03
communicating. Yeah.
00:26:05
>> Yeah. It was beautiful.
00:26:07
>> Oh, that's cool.
00:26:09
>> That's Yeah. I mean, yeah, I can tell
00:26:10
the way you talk about him with love and
00:26:12
you know, I think every every generation
00:26:14
does the best they can with the
00:26:16
resources they have.
00:26:17
>> I think so. Yeah.
00:26:17
>> Yeah. I mean, there's a small minority.
00:26:19
Sure. But, but dad was amazing. He
00:26:21
really was. From where he was, from
00:26:23
where he came from and what he's got
00:26:24
now.
00:26:25
>> Loved the man.
00:26:27
>> Yeah.
00:26:27
>> So, you you were quite a renegade, eh?
00:26:29
Uh like you were like like a bad always
00:26:31
nude.
00:26:34
No, arrested for indecent exposure
00:26:36
twice.
00:26:37
>> Yeah, I got I got arrested a couple of
00:26:39
times. I mean that's the beauty of
00:26:40
living in a small town community. They
00:26:41
know who you are. So
00:26:43
>> they could recognize you by your
00:26:44
testicles.
00:26:45
>> No,
00:26:47
not now, mate. Not now. Um no, I suppose
00:26:50
I mean I didn't drink too much, but when
00:26:52
I did drink, I was all in and I just
00:26:54
turned into a completely different
00:26:55
person. It was the guy, oh JK will do
00:26:56
that. JK will do that. And that's what I
00:26:58
did, you know. I'd take my clothes off,
00:27:00
run around, you know, have a laugh. But
00:27:02
yeah, I wasn't a renegade or a bad
00:27:03
person. I just like to laugh and have a
00:27:05
good time.
00:27:05
>> Just a lar.
00:27:06
>> A lar. Yeah.
00:27:08
>> Um, yeah. But you obviously were quite
00:27:10
disciplined as well. Like you don't get
00:27:11
to run, you know, like a one one minute
00:27:14
50 800 meter without some sort of like
00:27:16
serious training and discipline.
00:27:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was very determined,
00:27:19
very focused on my goals. I mean, um,
00:27:21
growing up, I knew I had a talent in
00:27:23
running and I loved it. It was like a
00:27:26
moving meditation for me. I just I just
00:27:27
love running and coming from a
00:27:29
hardworking background from the coast, I
00:27:30
wanted to be the hardest of the hardest
00:27:32
workers, if that makes sense,
00:27:34
>> you know. Um so I wanted to prove myself
00:27:36
on that aspect.
00:27:37
>> So I was very determined. Then my mom
00:27:38
got me this book called um The Winner's
00:27:40
Bible by Kerry Spackman. Really cool
00:27:42
book at the age of 19 and I started
00:27:45
visualization processes, all these kind
00:27:46
of mental techniques to help me get
00:27:48
better and it really helped me. So I had
00:27:51
kind of that drive but also I was
00:27:53
looking for other methods to help me um
00:27:56
achieve my goals. Yeah. So I was very
00:27:57
determined, very focused for sure. Yeah.
00:28:00
>> Yeah. What was your what was your big
00:28:02
goal? Like what did you see yourself
00:28:03
doing? Commonwealth Games, Olympics
00:28:04
potentially.
00:28:05
>> Yeah. First first goal was to just join
00:28:07
the Silver Fern, win a national title,
00:28:09
then hopefully, you know, represent New
00:28:11
Zealand, maybe Comwalth Games, and then
00:28:13
maybe the Olympics. Who knows? That was
00:28:14
the dream. Who knows? But that was the
00:28:16
dream as a kid growing up.
00:28:18
>> Yeah. What's what's you you follow the
00:28:20
steps and where it takes you is sort of
00:28:21
unknown to a degree. What about work?
00:28:23
What did you want to do for work?
00:28:24
>> Yeah, I always wanted to be a physio.
00:28:26
Yeah, that's what I wanted to be, but
00:28:27
dad's like, "No, you're playing up too
00:28:29
much at school. You got to go get go get
00:28:31
an apprentichip." I became a line
00:28:32
mechanic. I worked on power lines and it
00:28:34
was yeah, the best thing that I did.
00:28:35
Worked for a great company called
00:28:36
Electronet and Greymouth. Great company.
00:28:38
Um, really looked after me and I got a
00:28:40
lot of responsibility. At 20 years old,
00:28:42
I was organizing jobs, organizing
00:28:44
helicopters to come in, fly wire. It was
00:28:46
a hardworking job, but I I loved it. I
00:28:47
really did.
00:28:48
>> Yeah. But um when I was growing up, I
00:28:50
did want to be in the medical system.
00:28:52
Wanted to be a physio. Yeah.
00:28:54
>> Yeah. How about that?
00:28:55
>> Yeah.
00:28:55
>> Um
00:28:57
>> and then so 2011 uh you're 23 years old.
00:29:00
Um and that's when you start to get
00:29:02
unwell. How does that look?
00:29:04
>> Yep. So I had one race for that season,
00:29:06
got that number one ranking for a brief
00:29:08
time. Um I just in incredible form, the
00:29:11
best form that I've been in. Kind of
00:29:12
stopped drinking, really focused. And
00:29:15
then after that race, I was out running
00:29:17
in Haggley Park running with a guy
00:29:19
called Andrew Davidson. Sprained my
00:29:21
ankle, just wouldn't heal. Wouldn't
00:29:23
heal. So New Zealand champs were at the
00:29:25
end of March. Couldn't compete. Ankle
00:29:27
wasn't healing. My body was kind of
00:29:29
deteriorating a bit. Corquakes
00:29:32
happened. So I moved back home to
00:29:33
Greymouth for a bit just to recuperate.
00:29:36
Entered a bike race. Collapsed halfway
00:29:38
through the race. I fell off my bike. I
00:29:41
was just depleted. But you know, that
00:29:42
determination kicked in. finished the
00:29:44
race and I was just in bedridden for
00:29:47
about a week. Night sweats,
00:29:48
hallucinations, and I knew something
00:29:50
wasn't right. Went to the doctors, they
00:29:52
just gave me antibiotics, no blood
00:29:53
tests. My eye swelled up. I had this
00:29:55
leukemic eye. My eye swelled up. I
00:29:57
collapsed at the sink. My brother picked
00:29:59
me up, got my um auntie round. My mom
00:30:02
took me up to hospital and I knew
00:30:04
something something wasn't right. Yeah.
00:30:06
And that's when I the next day I was
00:30:08
admitted that night. had some um fluids,
00:30:12
some more antibiotics. They took bloods
00:30:14
that night and then the next day my
00:30:17
world just turned upside down.
00:30:20
>> Yeah. Turned upside down and and uh was
00:30:21
turned upside down for how many years?
00:30:24
>> I had I was in and out of hospital for
00:30:25
about 10 years. Just over 10 years.
00:30:28
>> Yeah.
00:30:29
>> It's [ __ ] eh. It's [ __ ] Like entire
00:30:33
20s. Really?
00:30:34
>> Yep.
00:30:35
>> 23 to 33.
00:30:36
>> Yep. It was. Yeah. Y
00:30:38
>> um Yeah. your your attitude is so
00:30:40
there's a quote that I heard from you.
00:30:41
I've got a life I couldn't even fathom
00:30:43
when I was 23. As you can see, I've been
00:30:45
pretty lucky.
00:30:46
>> Yeah. Been very blessed. I'll change
00:30:48
that luck to blessed. I have. Yeah. With
00:30:50
the outcome and and what I've got and
00:30:52
the people in my life and what I've seen
00:30:53
and the connections that I've made and I
00:30:55
don't think I would have had those
00:30:56
authentic connections as we spoke about
00:30:58
before through my own hardships and
00:30:59
trials and tribulations.
00:31:01
>> Yeah.
00:31:02
>> Can anyone develop that sort of glass
00:31:04
half full attitude?
00:31:05
>> 100% everyone can.
00:31:06
>> Yeah. 100%. Everyone can think
00:31:09
positively. Everyone's got the freedom
00:31:10
to choose. Like Victor Victor Frankle
00:31:12
said, even in a holoccast, he had the
00:31:14
freedom to choose his attitude and
00:31:15
positive mindset and he did. Everybody
00:31:17
has that ability. It's just a choice.
00:31:20
>> Yeah.
00:31:21
>> How vivid for you is the moment when you
00:31:23
um got told you have leukemia?
00:31:25
>> Yeah. The whole 10 years is pretty
00:31:26
vivid, Dom, I never want to lose it to
00:31:29
be fair. I don't. That's my perspective.
00:31:31
>> Is it hard for you to revisit though?
00:31:32
>> It has been, but I've done a lot of work
00:31:34
on that. I mean, you know, we we had our
00:31:36
first conversation together. I just
00:31:37
broke down in tears. So, um, for me,
00:31:39
it's more acceptance around it that I'm
00:31:41
okay, safe. Um, things are things are
00:31:43
good. So, it's just understanding that
00:31:45
emotion a bit better.
00:31:47
>> Um, doing this diploma, having this
00:31:49
sock, um, and Marine Neil in Boise,
00:31:51
Idaho helping me out. It's been
00:31:53
fantastic.
00:31:55
>> So, yeah. I mean, I remember that day
00:31:57
vividly. It was a torrential day on the
00:31:59
West Coast, mate. She was pissing down.
00:32:01
>> That's a shock. A mate, we've had the
00:32:04
best summer this year in New Zealand.
00:32:06
Doesn't rain that much on the coast
00:32:08
team. No, but it was. And then my I was
00:32:11
in hospital, you know, I was about to go
00:32:13
overseas with some friends for a bit of
00:32:15
an adventure. And I rang up my mates
00:32:17
said, "I'm probably not going. I'm in
00:32:19
hospital." And then the next day, my
00:32:21
family come in with this concerned look
00:32:22
on their face. And I was like, "What?
00:32:24
What's going on?" My dad, my mom, my
00:32:26
brother, my sister, and then my uncle.
00:32:29
And then the doctor was there.
00:32:31
And he said, "Oh, you're not going
00:32:33
overseas. You're going to Christ
00:32:35
Church." I was like, "Oh, okay. That's
00:32:36
strange." He's like, "You got leukemia."
00:32:38
And I had no idea what leukemia was. I
00:32:40
mean, even the word sounds confusing,
00:32:42
you know?
00:32:43
>> And I had no idea. But what I did see
00:32:45
was my mom just break down in tears. And
00:32:47
that just tore me apart. I'm like, "What
00:32:50
the heck's happening?" I had no idea.
00:32:53
Just seeing my mom cry. Just broke me.
00:32:55
Like, am I killing my mom? But I was the
00:32:57
one that was dying. And I had no idea
00:32:58
what treatment looked like. So I got
00:33:00
sent to Christ Church to the bone marrow
00:33:02
unit to receive about 7 to 8 months
00:33:04
worth of chemotherapy. And for me being
00:33:07
that fitfast athlete when I saw people
00:33:10
with cancer I thought that was a death
00:33:11
sentence. I had really no education
00:33:13
around cancer that a lot of people do
00:33:15
survive and thrive in life. But I
00:33:17
thought cancer death sentence mom crying
00:33:21
far out what's happening. So I just shut
00:33:22
the door. That strong determined Josh
00:33:25
I'm going to start this race. I'll
00:33:26
finish myself. Get it done.
00:33:29
What were your emotions like in the
00:33:30
first few days?
00:33:31
>> Uh, just confusion, Dom. There was no
00:33:33
real tears. I didn't cry for for a while
00:33:36
>> um until I was in Christ Church in the
00:33:38
bone marrow unit after my first round of
00:33:39
chemotherapy. The hardest part about
00:33:41
that was being locked up in isolation
00:33:43
for a month at a time. Um, not being out
00:33:45
in nature, not being able to run. I saw
00:33:47
my mates running past cuz you have a big
00:33:48
window looking out to Higgley Park and
00:33:50
you can see your mates run past and just
00:33:51
missing out on that. And then seeing
00:33:53
myself in the mirror, man, you know, my
00:33:55
body had just completely stripped itself
00:33:57
away.
00:33:58
And that just hit me hard. Like, who the
00:34:00
[ __ ] am I? You know, I can't run. I'm so
00:34:03
tired. I'm fatigued. I'm spewing up. I'm
00:34:04
[ __ ] myself. These nurses are wiping
00:34:06
my bum. You know, I've never experienced
00:34:08
that pain before. And then the mental
00:34:10
pain stepped in,
00:34:12
>> you know, and it was so difficult. It It
00:34:14
was extremely difficult to try and
00:34:16
navigate that time by myself. And as my
00:34:19
dad's saying, you're not using all your
00:34:21
strength unless you're asking for help.
00:34:22
And I needed to ask for help, but I
00:34:24
didn't know how.
00:34:27
I didn't know how.
00:34:32
>> How How did you reach that point? Was
00:34:35
Was it just out of necessity? It's like,
00:34:36
I've got to ask for help or
00:34:38
>> Yeah. I mean, I was in a complete
00:34:39
desperate situation. So, had that
00:34:42
diagnosis?
00:34:42
>> Cuz I'm guessing there's probably like a
00:34:44
lot of people listening to this or
00:34:45
watching this that have um walls up,
00:34:47
maybe not for health reasons like you
00:34:48
did, but and they're just not sure how
00:34:50
to open up,
00:34:51
>> how to take that first step.
00:34:53
>> Yeah. I mean, when you're when you're
00:34:54
feeling conflicted or confused or
00:34:56
confined, that's the moment to just
00:34:59
connect with somebody. And if someone
00:35:01
can connect, they don't have to have
00:35:02
answers, but just listen to you talk.
00:35:04
It's very cathartic. And then if it's
00:35:06
too much, yes, we've got great
00:35:08
psychological help in New Zealand. We've
00:35:09
got great organizations, great
00:35:11
counselors that can reach out and maybe
00:35:13
apply some tools to help you through
00:35:15
that process. So even just connecting
00:35:17
with a friend that you trust, someone to
00:35:19
talk to to share the load, you know, to
00:35:21
just share the load, talk about it,
00:35:24
maybe you can think about it a bit more
00:35:25
rationally, but if you're feeling
00:35:26
confused and conflicted, reach out, have
00:35:28
a chat to somebody, anyone.
00:35:30
>> Who did you first open up to?
00:35:33
>> The nurses were great, but I wouldn't
00:35:35
fully open up. The nurses were
00:35:36
fantastic. We've got some amazing
00:35:38
medical staff in New Zealand, Tom. We
00:35:39
really do. The more the nurses,
00:35:41
>> if you can't open up to a lady that's
00:35:42
been wiping your ass, who can you open
00:35:44
up to? I know, man.
00:35:47
Michaela Jameson, thank you.
00:35:50
>> Someone give Michaela Jameson a pay
00:35:52
rise.
00:35:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. She's Yeah. Not just here,
00:35:55
but a whole host of people.
00:35:58
>> So, I had two to three months of chemo.
00:36:00
My body's stripped away. I'm looking at
00:36:01
myself. Who am I? What the [ __ ] going
00:36:02
on? You know, so confused. Not talking
00:36:05
to anybody. I mean, talking little bits
00:36:07
and pieces, but not telling them the
00:36:08
full picture.
00:36:09
>> Yeah. Just put putting on a a mask.
00:36:11
>> Putting on a mask for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:12
Putting on a brave face. And then it
00:36:14
just got too much, Dom. It got too much.
00:36:16
I struggled to go up the stairs. I'd
00:36:17
always try and walk to try and keep my
00:36:19
body moving when I was at Randoi House,
00:36:21
but I was just too much. And seeing my
00:36:23
friends come in and go about their life.
00:36:25
Um, just hit me. And I real I had no
00:36:28
perspective at that time. I didn't no
00:36:30
tools. And then I thought, [ __ ] my
00:36:32
mind's out of control. My body's out of
00:36:34
control. What can control I do? What
00:36:37
control can I take? And that was to take
00:36:39
my life. I thought about taking my life.
00:36:40
Like really considering taking my life.
00:36:42
So, I walked to the balcony and I was
00:36:44
there and I was like, "This is it." You
00:36:47
know, everything's had to get you don't
00:36:48
know what to do. And I stepped up and I
00:36:50
felt the wind hit the side of my face,
00:36:52
the right hand. I I remember it vividly
00:36:55
and I turned around and I saw my mom's
00:36:57
cup of tea there and just hit me hard.
00:36:59
>> Hit me hard. I couldn't put the pain I
00:37:01
was feeling on my mom. I couldn't put
00:37:03
that on her. You know, imagine her life
00:37:05
without me. Couldn't do that. So, that
00:37:09
was rock bottom. I stepped away and I
00:37:11
still remember it. Dom, I I had my
00:37:13
fingernails pierce through my bald
00:37:14
little head just screaming, "What the
00:37:16
[ __ ] going on, man? You got to do
00:37:17
something." The cool thing is in New
00:37:19
Zealand, we have amazing charities in
00:37:22
the cancer realm that reach out and look
00:37:24
for help, but I always pushed it back.
00:37:25
So, canteen, there's a lady called
00:37:27
Sarah. She would come in, you know, do
00:37:29
you need any help? And I'd always say,
00:37:30
"No, no, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good."
00:37:32
So, I made the phone call to her. I
00:37:33
said, "Listen, I am no good. I need
00:37:35
help." And she um hooked me up with the
00:37:37
counselor. Yeah. So that was the first
00:37:39
time that I really reached out for help,
00:37:41
but it had to get that far,
00:37:42
unfortunately.
00:37:45
>> When did you tell your mom about that?
00:37:49
>> I think she always knew what was going
00:37:51
on. She always knows. Moms have this
00:37:52
intuition and she'd always turn up.
00:37:55
Mom's always there. Um, and that's a
00:37:58
blessing to my mom that she was she seen
00:38:00
so much, Tom.
00:38:01
>> Um, she always knew, but she probably
00:38:03
didn't know how to act upon that cuz if
00:38:04
she suggested, I would said, "No, no, I
00:38:06
don't want that." For me being that
00:38:08
stubborn, determined person, I probably
00:38:10
had to get that point to reach out for
00:38:11
that for that level of help.
00:38:13
>> Yeah.
00:38:13
>> Yeah.
00:38:14
>> Yeah.
00:38:16
>> But anyone who has that stubborn
00:38:18
masculine attitude that I don't need
00:38:20
help and you're feeling that way, just
00:38:22
make a conversation with someone.
00:38:24
>> Just make that first step.
00:38:26
>> They don't have to have the answer. If
00:38:28
they're a great friend, they'll listen
00:38:29
to you and just talk. Just get it off
00:38:32
your shoulders.
00:38:33
>> Yeah.
00:38:34
>> Thanks, mate. That's really powerful
00:38:35
stuff.
00:38:38
If if you knew then if if someone said
00:38:40
to you because this is in the this is
00:38:41
like round one of leukemia, right? This
00:38:43
is what we're talking about now.
00:38:44
>> That's round one. Yeah.
00:38:46
>> This is like just the chapter one of the
00:38:49
the whole 10y year misadventure. If if
00:38:52
if you knew then what you were in for
00:38:54
like over the next decade, do you you
00:38:55
think you would have jumped?
00:38:58
>> No. No. No. I wouldn't have jumped.
00:39:02
>> No, I would have. I'm I would have came
00:39:05
back, you know. I could not, as I said
00:39:07
before, I couldn't put the pain of what
00:39:09
I was feeling on my family. Imagine then
00:39:11
living with the notion that I took my
00:39:13
life that there could have been an
00:39:15
opportunity for me to heal and get
00:39:17
better. And as I said, it did.
00:39:20
>> Like my life transformed dramatically
00:39:22
even though I was about to go through
00:39:23
harder stuff than that, physically
00:39:25
harder. You know, I'm put I would put my
00:39:28
hand up and say, "Take me through that
00:39:29
pain to get what I have right now."
00:39:32
Because one when one door closes, so
00:39:34
many more open if you're willing to
00:39:37
persevere through that pain.
00:39:40
I truly truly believe that
00:39:42
>> if one door shuts, more can open. When
00:39:44
opportunities are shunted away,
00:39:47
opportunities can open. If you're
00:39:48
consistent every day turning out, doing
00:39:50
some work, finding new things, I truly
00:39:54
believe that things can transform in a
00:39:58
positive manner. Just like Victor
00:40:00
Frankle, just like a guy called Luis
00:40:02
Zambberini in World War II when he was
00:40:04
in a prisoner of war camp in Japan,
00:40:06
things change for the better. If you if
00:40:07
you choose your attitude, if you
00:40:10
communicate, if you connect with
00:40:12
individuals, things will get better and
00:40:14
new opportunities will beckon for you.
00:40:19
>> That's really powerful stuff. It's
00:40:21
really helpful. I mean, it means a lot
00:40:23
to me because when I hear people take
00:40:25
their life at a young age or an older
00:40:27
age, it's like there's moments of
00:40:29
meaning for you out in the future.
00:40:30
There's so much. Everyone has something
00:40:32
to offer in this world and it can close
00:40:35
down so quickly and the aperture just
00:40:38
narrows and narrows and I know that I've
00:40:39
felt that multiple times. But having
00:40:42
that courage to continue finding that
00:40:44
within yourself, connecting with others.
00:40:46
I call them my ABCs, you know, attitude,
00:40:49
belong, connect, and communicate.
00:40:52
>> Get that foundation. Get that
00:40:54
foundation.
00:40:56
>> Yeah. Cuz it's a permanent solution uh
00:40:59
for what is always a temporary problem.
00:41:01
>> Temporary problem, Dom.
00:41:02
>> And there's that saying um
00:41:03
>> and it was a temporary problem in my
00:41:04
issue. It really was.
00:41:06
>> I mean, as we spoke before the
00:41:08
transplant games,
00:41:09
>> what the heck?
00:41:10
>> Yeah. more meaningful than what it would
00:41:12
be representing New Zealand at the
00:41:13
Commonwealth Games. Yeah. You know,
00:41:16
>> yeah, there's something quite poant
00:41:17
about it, isn't there?
00:41:18
>> It is. And and it's turning a tragedy
00:41:20
into an absolute triumph.
00:41:22
>> It's showing people that through my
00:41:24
actions, things can change for the
00:41:26
better. Even when you're in the worst
00:41:28
situation, things can change for the
00:41:30
better.
00:41:30
>> Yeah.
00:41:31
>> So, so you get through um the the round
00:41:35
one of um leukemia. Ding, ding, ding. Is
00:41:38
is that is that when um you get some
00:41:40
sort of uh normal life back and you go
00:41:43
to Nepal and you do some skydiving?
00:41:45
>> Yes. Yeah. So I had 8 months of
00:41:47
treatment very confused but I'm talking
00:41:50
and communicating and I spoke to a lot
00:41:52
of people that I trusted good friends
00:41:53
not everyone not going out to the world
00:41:55
saying hey this is what happened found a
00:41:57
few people and I just used to go out
00:41:59
into the surf. I used to surf a little
00:42:00
bit and I just you know pray or meditate
00:42:03
just think about life where I've been
00:42:04
through you know at the start of the
00:42:05
year I was one of the fastest in New
00:42:06
Zealand then one of the sickest wanted
00:42:08
to take my life didn't know what was
00:42:10
going on so just you know just
00:42:12
reconciling myself trying to find my way
00:42:15
trying to find meaning from that moment
00:42:18
and then I got a phone call from a
00:42:20
friend called Ben Wallace been talking
00:42:22
about him so good mate um he rings me up
00:42:25
he goes hey man do you want to go to
00:42:26
Nepal it's been a been a bit of a
00:42:27
childhood dream that we spoke about when
00:42:29
growing up. I said, "Mate, you're
00:42:30
kidding. No way. I can't do that. Just
00:42:33
been through all all this stuff." And
00:42:34
then um I was out in the surf one day.
00:42:36
Sun was on me and I thought, "Don't be
00:42:39
afraid. Don't be afraid. You got to get
00:42:41
out there and seize these
00:42:42
opportunities." So, I broke down that
00:42:44
fear barrier, rang him up. I said, "Dear
00:42:45
man, let's do it." Yeah, let's do it.
00:42:47
>> Well, the um oncologists or medical
00:42:49
experts you were dealing with, they they
00:42:51
okay with it? Were you?
00:42:52
>> Yeah.
00:42:52
>> Yeah. I've got a great doctor called
00:42:54
Peter Ganley. He's just like, "Go out
00:42:55
and live your life, Josh.
00:42:56
>> There was always a high chance of me
00:42:58
relapsing." Was that why?
00:43:00
>> Uh
00:43:00
>> just the nature of that
00:43:01
>> just the nature cuz yeah so you have
00:43:04
chemo but there's maybe leukemic cells
00:43:06
that haven't been completely destroyed
00:43:08
by the chemotherapy. So there's always a
00:43:10
chance of relapsing and I quite a poor
00:43:12
prognosis. So I had this kind of genetic
00:43:14
mutation
00:43:16
called a flip 3 inhibitor. Um and that
00:43:19
put me in a poor prognosis. So I had a
00:43:21
high chance of relapsing but he
00:43:22
basically said go out and live your
00:43:23
life.
00:43:24
>> He was great. Yep.
00:43:26
>> Yeah. So you were well enough to travel.
00:43:28
Yeah, I was. And that's from the running
00:43:29
background. I did recover quite well.
00:43:31
Yeah. Having that higher aerobic and
00:43:33
anorobic threshold helped me recover.
00:43:35
Yeah.
00:43:36
>> Um, and you you did a treat to base
00:43:38
camp.
00:43:39
>> Yep. So, I said to my mate, let's do it.
00:43:41
>> How how like how was that in terms of
00:43:42
like the altitude and your breathing and
00:43:45
>> Yeah, it was very difficult. I did get
00:43:46
sick. I got sick a lot. I mean, I got
00:43:49
the deli belly, you know, the bacteria
00:43:51
in my in my stomach, you know.
00:43:52
>> Had to wipe your own asses.
00:43:54
>> Yeah. I was asking Ben, "Do you want to
00:43:55
come and wipe me?" He wasn't looking at
00:43:57
me, man.
00:43:59
No, but he helped me through it. Um, and
00:44:01
we got to base camp and it was a real
00:44:03
meaning moment. Me, real meaningful
00:44:05
moment just being up there with my mate
00:44:06
at base camp with my grey mouse singlet
00:44:08
on, you know, it was great. Then we
00:44:10
climbed up to Mount Kalipatar. I think
00:44:11
Mount Kalipatar is about 18 and a half
00:44:13
thousand ft. Mount Cook's about 12 and a
00:44:15
bit 12,300 ft. And
00:44:18
>> oh, did you get nude up there or am I
00:44:19
imagining it?
00:44:20
>> No, we were about to, but then we got
00:44:23
told that's a big insult because it's a
00:44:24
real sacred site. So, we're like, "No."
00:44:27
So,
00:44:27
>> who who stopped you? Who told you?
00:44:29
>> H Some of the trickers there. They gave
00:44:30
us a tap on the shoulder, a polite tap,
00:44:31
and we're like, "Yeah, fair enough."
00:44:34
>> Um, how was it in the Greymouth signal,
00:44:36
though? Is it is it [ __ ] freezing?
00:44:38
>> It was cold. Yeah. When we went to Mount
00:44:40
Calabatar, I think that's one of the
00:44:41
coldest days I've ever experienced, the
00:44:42
wind and and all the snow around. But it
00:44:45
was awesome. We got to watch the sunrise
00:44:46
over Mount Everest,
00:44:48
>> wave to sir up there, you know, it was
00:44:49
really, really cool. It was just a real
00:44:51
moment of meaning for me.
00:44:52
>> Yeah. Extra special, I guess. Um, being
00:44:54
in that ne that part of the world being
00:44:56
a Kiwi as well with the connection to
00:44:58
Sured.
00:44:58
>> They all love they love New Zealand.
00:45:00
Yeah. And the Nepoese people just
00:45:01
changed my perspective. I mean, I got
00:45:04
into Catmand do and this really
00:45:05
transformed my life as well. Seeing
00:45:07
seeing this was my first overseas
00:45:09
experience. So, I got into the tuk tuk
00:45:10
and I was driving down the road and then
00:45:12
I saw these kids playing in rubbish.
00:45:13
Some were naked, some just had their
00:45:15
underwear on. They were playing in
00:45:16
rubbish in this puddle and they looked
00:45:18
up with looked up at me with these big
00:45:19
beautiful white smiles and just waved.
00:45:21
And I was like, "Fuck, man. how good we
00:45:25
how good did you have it? You suffered
00:45:27
in the best conditions and these kids
00:45:28
had absolutely nothing but yet they were
00:45:30
making the best of their situation,
00:45:31
having a great time. And it just shifted
00:45:33
my whole perspective that I had I lived
00:45:35
in New Zealand in this great medical
00:45:37
system getting adequate treatment, had
00:45:39
food, everything like that. I suffered
00:45:41
in good conditions, but these kids were
00:45:42
making the best of what they had.
00:45:44
>> Just hit me, man. Just changed my
00:45:45
perspective that I visually saw it.
00:45:48
>> Yeah.
00:45:50
you there's that saying um comparison is
00:45:52
the theft of joy but I I I like to say
00:45:55
like you you can compare down and you
00:45:57
actually don't have to look that far to
00:45:58
see someone that is a whole lot happier
00:46:00
with a whole lot less
00:46:01
>> yeah I mean comparison can be the the
00:46:03
words of encouragement it can be I mean
00:46:05
if you're comparing yourself to what
00:46:07
don't I have but what don't I have what
00:46:10
do I have
00:46:11
>> you know what do I have in front of me
00:46:12
and these kids had rubbish in front of
00:46:13
them a couple of their mates playing in
00:46:15
a puddle and they were making the best
00:46:17
of it you know and I thought my life had
00:46:19
been taken way because I've been
00:46:20
diagnosed with cancer,
00:46:22
>> you know, I wasn't making the best of my
00:46:23
situation. I wasn't making adequate
00:46:25
choices. I wasn't choosing the right
00:46:26
attitude. I wasn't connecting. I wasn't
00:46:27
communicating,
00:46:29
>> you know.
00:46:30
>> Yes. So, you were you well for a while.
00:46:32
Were you feeling well?
00:46:33
>> Yeah, I was feeling well. I did recover
00:46:35
well during my
00:46:36
>> Did it feel like there was a like a like
00:46:37
a shadow looming behind you though that
00:46:39
it was going to come back or
00:46:40
>> No, I never had a thought that was
00:46:41
coming back. I always I had a positive
00:46:43
mindset that I'm going to go out and
00:46:45
embrace life. Just any opportunity that
00:46:46
comes my way, I'm going to take it. what
00:46:49
Josh Coleman wanted to do, he was going
00:46:50
to do it. And I had two things that I
00:46:52
really wanted to do since I was a kid.
00:46:54
And one was go to base camp and the
00:46:55
other was um to become a professional
00:46:57
skydiver.
00:47:01
>> And you did both?
00:47:02
>> I did both.
00:47:02
>> Yeah. How many jumps?
00:47:03
>> I ended up doing about 210, I think.
00:47:06
>> Did you do a nude one?
00:47:08
>> No. No,
00:47:10
>> I didn't. I did one in my underwear,
00:47:11
though.
00:47:12
>> That's close enough.
00:47:13
>> Yeah. So, the etiquette in skydive world
00:47:15
is called It's called the Hundi. So on
00:47:16
your 100th jump, you have to jump out in
00:47:18
your underwear.
00:47:18
>> Oh, it's a thing.
00:47:19
>> Yeah, it's a thing.
00:47:20
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was
00:47:22
awesome. New Zealand's the only place in
00:47:23
the world that has a diploma for
00:47:24
commercial skydiving. It's pretty cool.
00:47:27
>> So you were fully getting on with your
00:47:29
life, eh?
00:47:30
>> Oh, yeah.
00:47:30
>> It's almost like you had this this this
00:47:31
this brush with death and you thought,
00:47:33
"Fuck, that's it. I got to live like I'm
00:47:34
dying."
00:47:35
>> Yep. Exactly. Yeah, I did. I had this
00:47:38
brush with death and I thought, man, I
00:47:39
just got to take the opportunities from
00:47:40
that moment when I was out in the surf.
00:47:42
You know, I was a bit fearful of what I
00:47:43
could and couldn't do. But it just hit
00:47:45
me like that wind hit me on the balcony.
00:47:47
It was like intuitive like just go out
00:47:48
there and live it, man. Just go do some
00:47:50
cool stuff and I did. However, there was
00:47:53
one incident. We didn't speak about this
00:47:55
on the podcast. I don't think I've
00:47:56
spoken about this. However, we finished
00:47:58
that base camp track and my mate Ben, we
00:48:01
went to
00:48:03
Kofi in Thailand to just rest and
00:48:05
recover. And in Kofi, it's a bit of a
00:48:08
party island and you have these buckets
00:48:09
full of whiskey and vodka and it's all
00:48:11
mixed up. See, I hadn't drunken for a
00:48:13
long time. And
00:48:16
um as I said earlier, when I drunk, you
00:48:18
know, I just turned into a completely
00:48:20
different person. And this is the first
00:48:21
time I really drunk. I didn't even drink
00:48:22
a full one of these buckets. I drunk
00:48:25
about maybe a quarter and I just
00:48:27
completely lost it. Completely lost
00:48:29
control of myself. And I went over to
00:48:31
this bush, urinated. I don't know what
00:48:34
happened. So my my Ben tells it the
00:48:36
best. I got whacked over the head with a
00:48:38
stick, like whacked down, and my Ben saw
00:48:40
it. comes over, hits the guy. Once he
00:48:43
hits him, 10 to 20 tie guys come and
00:48:45
grab Ben and just beat the [ __ ] out of
00:48:46
him. Like it was bad. He was blood
00:48:50
covered face, tooth knocked out, had to
00:48:52
have a operation when he had got back to
00:48:54
New Zealand. And luckily, I'd met some
00:48:57
friends that morning cuz I went diving.
00:48:59
I had my um diving ticket. Made some
00:49:01
friends who were New Zealanders and they
00:49:03
helped us get out of that situation cuz
00:49:04
they knew the locals. They just pulled
00:49:05
us out, got us out. Credit to them.
00:49:07
However, I had this epiphany the next
00:49:09
day. I was like, "What the [ __ ] are you
00:49:10
doing, man? This is a disrespect to the
00:49:13
opportunities that you've been given."
00:49:14
>> Completely out of control. And I
00:49:16
couldn't help my mate. So, I chose then
00:49:18
not to drink again. That was my choice
00:49:20
then. So, I haven't drunk for about 13
00:49:22
years from that moment.
00:49:24
>> Yeah. Because I couldn't help my mate.
00:49:26
>> It wasn't your fault though, really?
00:49:28
>> No, no, it wasn't my fault, but I made
00:49:29
the choice to drink and I knew and I
00:49:32
knew that I probably wasn't ready to
00:49:33
drink that much for sure, but I was out
00:49:34
of control and I put my mate in a
00:49:36
life-threatening situation. Wasn't cool.
00:49:39
Wasn't cool. And we laugh about it now,
00:49:41
you know. We do laugh about it. Um but
00:49:44
still it hit me hard and and and I I
00:49:46
felt so bad. I felt so bad. I had given
00:49:49
this opportunity of life again, an
00:49:51
extension of life and I just completely
00:49:53
disrespected it.
00:49:54
>> Yeah.
00:49:56
>> You maybe like a literal hit over the
00:49:58
head is what you needed.
00:49:59
>> No, that's exactly it, Dom. Yeah. A
00:50:00
literal hit over the head. However, it
00:50:02
put my mate in jeopardy. It did. Yeah.
00:50:04
And that wasn't cool.
00:50:05
>> Yeah. So, um, this all paints like an
00:50:09
interesting picture of who you are. So,
00:50:10
you have this, you know, brush with
00:50:11
death with leukemia and then, um, you're
00:50:13
doing this extreme stuff, couple hundred
00:50:15
skydives, you're diving, um, you know,
00:50:18
climbing to base camp, um, just partying
00:50:21
hard until you're not anymore. Then when
00:50:23
do you start to feel unwell again? Like,
00:50:26
how how long do you get how long of um,
00:50:27
sunshine do you get?
00:50:28
>> 13 months. It was Yeah, it was exactly
00:50:30
13 months that I had a window of
00:50:32
opportunity, per se. Yeah. So, I was
00:50:34
skydiving. I was jumping out of a plane.
00:50:36
We went to high altitude. We went to
00:50:37
18,000 ft when I was jumping with my
00:50:40
mate Ivan. Jumped out and I was got
00:50:43
severely hypoxic, meaning low oxygen
00:50:45
saturation. So I wasn't didn't have
00:50:47
enough red blood cells to accumulate
00:50:49
that oxygen in my body. And I saw one,
00:50:51
then two, then three, then there was
00:50:52
like 20 of them up there. And I just
00:50:54
pulled my parachute quickly. Just pulled
00:50:56
it and then spiral down, sat on the
00:50:57
ground. And and I just looked at my
00:50:59
hands and I had these purple spots which
00:51:01
indicated low platelets, which I had
00:51:03
last time. And instantly I knew what
00:51:05
what was going on, you know, my cancer
00:51:07
had come back.
00:51:12
>> Yeah. How's that?
00:51:15
What? Like were you sort of like
00:51:16
expecting it so you weren't surprised or
00:51:18
were you just like just like a a massive
00:51:20
punch in the guts?
00:51:21
>> No, I was like, "Okay, cool. I've done
00:51:23
some cool [ __ ] I've lived up to to
00:51:25
myself. I made a choice to not drink
00:51:27
again due to my values, you know, and I
00:51:29
was living an authentic life
00:51:31
>> that I was that I was living. So I was I
00:51:33
was I was grateful and if I died, cool.
00:51:36
I was I was that was okay.
00:51:38
>> I was at peace with it, but I still
00:51:40
wanted to live if that made sense. I
00:51:41
didn't want to die, but if it did
00:51:43
happen, that was okay. I did the best
00:51:44
with what I had in my life. I'd kind of
00:51:46
accepted, you know, the running part of
00:51:48
it that I hadn't represented New Zealand
00:51:50
or achieved what I needed to achieve
00:51:52
even though even though I was on the
00:51:53
fringe, it was like, "Hey man, you did
00:51:54
the best with what you had." And that's
00:51:57
that's what I was grateful for, very
00:51:59
happy for. Um, so yeah, I I waited for a
00:52:03
bit. I waited for my annual doctor's
00:52:04
appointment, which was 5 days away, and
00:52:05
then I got my diagnosis. I wasn't too
00:52:07
emotional, but I didn't understand the
00:52:10
physicality of what I was about to go
00:52:11
through. So, mentally, I was more
00:52:13
prepared. I really was, but I I wasn't
00:52:15
really prepared for the phys physicality
00:52:16
of what was going to occur.
00:52:18
>> So, you you thought it would just be the
00:52:19
same again?
00:52:20
>> Yeah, I thought it was going to be very
00:52:21
similar, but this was going to be
00:52:22
completely different from Yeah. having
00:52:24
an allergenic stem cell transplant.
00:52:26
>> Yeah. Is this around the time you ended
00:52:28
up in a coma for 10 days?
00:52:30
>> Yep. It was the same time.
00:52:31
>> Yeah.
00:52:32
>> Yeah. Just a disclaimer here, too. If
00:52:34
anyone's lining up for allergenic stem
00:52:35
cell transplant,
00:52:37
>> it doesn't have to be as hard as this.
00:52:39
>> People do have really good outcomes. I
00:52:41
just want to put that out there.
00:52:43
>> Um, do you want to have a sip?
00:52:45
>> I've been I've been sipping away, man.
00:52:47
>> You keep going to have a sip and then
00:52:48
I'll ask you a question. The last thing
00:52:50
I want is you drying up. Yeah. Cuz you
00:52:51
you mentioned before you say you don't
00:52:52
produce tears and you don't produce
00:52:54
saliva.
00:52:55
>> Adequate saliva. No. So when I'm I carry
00:52:57
this fella a little water bottle
00:52:59
everywhere I go. It's not my best mate.
00:53:02
>> Yeah. What do you What do you say when
00:53:03
you do like keynote speeches? You say
00:53:04
it's like a a condom or something.
00:53:06
>> Oh no. No. I got asked a couple of times
00:53:08
on the at the end at Q&A. What's it in
00:53:10
your hand? Someone said, "Oh, I said to
00:53:11
you use condom." I was like, "Man, no.
00:53:14
Is that" And someone's asked, "Is that a
00:53:15
vape? Am I vaping while I'm talking?"
00:53:17
No. No. It's just it's just water in a
00:53:19
in a silicon drink bottle.
00:53:20
>> Do you do you have to pee a lot cuz
00:53:23
you're taking in so much water? Oh, it's
00:53:25
just just normal, I suppose.
00:53:26
>> Yeah. Not not as much as my daughter.
00:53:30
>> Okay. So, so you get sick again, round
00:53:31
two of leukemia. Then um yeah, what
00:53:33
happens? Run us like in terms of the
00:53:35
treatments and stuff.
00:53:35
>> So, obviously they call it salvage
00:53:37
treatment. Um I salvage whatever they
00:53:40
can with what I've got. And I'm in line
00:53:42
for a um allergenic stem cell
00:53:44
transplant, which basically means my
00:53:46
immune system would have to come from
00:53:48
somebody else. So, our immune systems
00:53:50
derived from these special cells called
00:53:52
hemopoetic stem cells. They live in our
00:53:54
bone marrow and they create like our red
00:53:55
blood cells, our white blood cells, our
00:53:57
platelets and plasma. So that makes it's
00:53:59
like the factory house to make our
00:54:00
blood. So that would have to come from
00:54:02
somebody else. My siblings weren't a
00:54:05
match. That's the best match you can
00:54:06
get. If you got a twin donor, that's the
00:54:08
best match you can get. If you got
00:54:09
sibling donor, that's the best match.
00:54:11
But then I had a mismatch. So they do
00:54:12
this tissue typing
00:54:14
to kind of type my DNA profile to to her
00:54:17
to the donor. And they didn't find one
00:54:20
at the start. I had three two rounds of
00:54:23
chemotherapy and during that time I
00:54:25
developed neutropenic sepsis which is a
00:54:27
bacteria in the blood and that put me
00:54:29
into intensive care unit and you know
00:54:31
they they told my parents that hey he
00:54:33
might not wake up here um potentially he
00:54:36
could die. I had a friend from Chicago,
00:54:39
Callum Baker. Um, he he passed away in
00:54:41
that situation
00:54:43
unfortunately. Um,
00:54:46
>> I was in that situation and God willing,
00:54:49
I did wake up after 10 days.
00:54:51
>> Is this the moment where um, like you
00:54:54
say your farewell to your parents cuz
00:54:55
you're not sure if you're going to see
00:54:56
them.
00:54:56
>> I don't say farewell. I'm in a coma. I
00:54:58
can't talk. I can't remember that 10day
00:54:59
period, but my family coming up to say
00:55:01
goodbye.
00:55:01
>> Where's Where's the moment where your
00:55:02
dad lets rip?
00:55:03
>> That's it. So, my sister tells a story.
00:55:06
I only know the story through my through
00:55:07
my sister.
00:55:09
>> Yeah.
00:55:09
>> Is your dad okay with this?
00:55:11
>> Yeah. Yeah, he's fine. He's fine. He's
00:55:13
great.
00:55:13
>> Some light relief.
00:55:14
>> My dad is very sensitive. So, he he was
00:55:16
very reluctant to come up. He didn't
00:55:18
want to see me in that situation, but he
00:55:20
got called up. Come up and you got to,
00:55:21
you know, say goodbye in that. So,
00:55:22
there's I think from my sister's story,
00:55:25
three doctors, a couple of nurses, very
00:55:27
specialist doctors. Mom says goodbye,
00:55:29
you know, emotional sister, brother,
00:55:30
goodbye. And then dad's turn. He's got
00:55:32
his he's got the builder's crack hanging
00:55:34
out. bends over. Goodbye, son. Just lets
00:55:36
out of hell. The doctors the doctors are
00:55:40
like,
00:55:41
"Say how you say goodbye to your boy.
00:55:47
He's a good man. We love you, Pete.
00:55:49
>> It's a great light."
00:55:50
>> My dad said if anything he wants to be
00:55:52
remembered by, he wants a lot of laughs
00:55:53
at his funeral. So, as long as we're
00:55:55
laughing, we're living.
00:55:56
>> Fats are funny.
00:55:57
>> Yeah, fats are funny.
00:55:58
>> It was just this awkward serious moment.
00:56:01
It just Yeah. So um and what do they
00:56:04
tell you is the prognosis at this at
00:56:06
this time like a is it you know is it
00:56:09
50/50 chance of survival is it do they
00:56:11
give you like a percentage or do they
00:56:12
give you like a life expectancy or
00:56:14
anything at that point?
00:56:15
>> So I mean I got told from the registry I
00:56:17
had about from my first diagnosis with
00:56:19
the diagnosis that I had being in a poor
00:56:21
prognosis was 10 to 30%.
00:56:22
>> Mhm.
00:56:23
>> Yeah. But however those numbers are
00:56:25
based on an older population cuz it's
00:56:27
uncommon for young people to get AML. I
00:56:29
mean, people do get it young, but most
00:56:31
of the numbers are over 60, so they
00:56:35
don't have the fitness background that I
00:56:36
had. Everyone's an individual, and
00:56:39
numbers are just numbers. People say,
00:56:41
you know, you're terminal, but people
00:56:42
live longer than what they say.
00:56:44
>> So, numbers are just numbers. You don't
00:56:46
take them literally, but the numbers
00:56:47
that I did get told were 10 to 30%.
00:56:50
>> Which are not great numbers.
00:56:51
>> Not great numbers, but numbers are
00:56:52
numbers. I mean, I'm Josh Kman, and I've
00:56:54
got my own journey, my path, and my
00:56:56
story is different to everyone else's.
00:56:58
>> Yeah.
00:56:58
>> Yeah. Yeah, you're a tough [ __ ] eh?
00:57:01
>> Tough bastard.
00:57:02
>> Yeah, I mean, it's it's been learned,
00:57:04
but everybody has a has a has a tough
00:57:07
mental aptitude in them.
00:57:08
>> Yeah, it's just choices and and um
00:57:11
attitude we take around what with what
00:57:13
we've been given.
00:57:15
>> So, yeah. So, run me through. So, we're
00:57:18
at the point now where you got the
00:57:20
second round of leukemia, you know, cuz
00:57:22
there's just there's there's so much so
00:57:24
much more. It's just like um
00:57:26
>> a layered cake. So you get through the
00:57:28
second round of leukem the second bout
00:57:30
of leukemia.
00:57:31
>> Yeah. So I have So I'm in ICU. I wake up
00:57:34
and then Dr. Gibbons comes in. He goes,
00:57:36
"Great news. You woke up.
00:57:37
Congratulations. We found you a donor."
00:57:39
Which was fantastic cuz I hadn't heard
00:57:41
that we had a donor. We had a match at
00:57:43
the start before I went into a coma.
00:57:45
Awesome. However, she could only donate
00:57:47
her stem cells in I think 2 to 3 weeks
00:57:51
time. 2 to 3 weeks time. Now the normal
00:57:53
protocol without being in a coma is
00:57:55
having two months of treatment then
00:57:57
about 2 months off to reconsolidate get
00:57:59
yourself right to go through the
00:58:00
treatment that you're going to have to
00:58:02
sorry eradicate your immune system
00:58:04
annihilate it like Nagasaki dropping the
00:58:07
atomic bomb on there you know so your
00:58:08
immune system doesn't go back so the new
00:58:10
one can come and repopulate so it's a
00:58:12
really tough procedure to go through it
00:58:14
really
00:58:15
>> basically putting you to the brink of
00:58:16
death
00:58:16
>> they are they are y so I had to have
00:58:18
highdosese chemotherapy and highdosese
00:58:21
full body radiation I sitting in a like
00:58:23
a glass box where they just annihilate
00:58:24
your body to annihilate your immune
00:58:26
system. So having 2 weeks from getting
00:58:28
out of a coma, I couldn't talk. I
00:58:30
couldn't walk. You know, my brother was
00:58:32
pushing me around in a wheelchair. I was
00:58:34
very, very skinny like a little alien.
00:58:35
And I was like, "Holy moly, how am I
00:58:37
going to get through this?" And that's
00:58:38
where my breathing, meditation, um,
00:58:40
practices came in. That's all I could
00:58:41
really do.
00:58:44
>> Yeah. How were you at the time? Were you
00:58:45
sad? You just feel like a broken human?
00:58:48
>> No, I was just like, "How can I get
00:58:49
through this? What tools do I have at my
00:58:51
disposal to get through this? I mean, I
00:58:52
couldn't walk or exercise.
00:58:54
>> So, I tried to eat as much food to put
00:58:55
on weight and I just went down to the
00:58:57
boat shed, Antigua boat shed. The green
00:58:59
chair is not there anymore, but there's
00:59:00
a green chair. And I just used to close
00:59:01
my eyes and visualize myself healthy
00:59:03
again. Just see myself in the future.
00:59:05
And I try to conjure that picture in my
00:59:07
mind.
00:59:08
>> Transplant came and from a transplant,
00:59:10
you you can acquire, not everybody, you
00:59:13
can acquire this graph host disease. So,
00:59:15
it's a graph rejection. So the immune
00:59:16
system in my body sees my tissue as
00:59:19
foreign and it starts to attack it.
00:59:21
Okay? So not everybody gets it and it
00:59:23
can kill you. So you have a treatment
00:59:25
that can save your life but it can take
00:59:27
your life.
00:59:29
And I got graphos host disease acute
00:59:31
graph host disease and I was in a
00:59:33
semicoma state again for about I don't
00:59:37
know maybe 2 or 3 months. I was in
00:59:38
isolation again and I was just I
00:59:40
couldn't eat and I was just sleeping
00:59:43
[ __ ] myself. It was crazy. It was a
00:59:45
crazy time. There's too much to talk
00:59:46
about there. Yeah. Yeah. But one thing
00:59:49
that did sustain me through that was
00:59:51
when my mom came over sparkling water
00:59:54
with bubbles and she and I couldn't
00:59:56
swallow it, but she'd come over and she
00:59:58
put the straw up to my mouth and the
00:59:59
bubbles would pop through my mouth. Just
01:00:00
pop pop pop and it was just like these
01:00:03
pure joyous moment of meaning that just
01:00:05
sustained me in that period of time.
01:00:06
It's like a thanks mom.
01:00:08
>> Then put it aside.
01:00:11
>> Why? Because of how it felt or
01:00:12
>> just how it felt. It was just relief.
01:00:14
Yeah. And it just kind of it was like a
01:00:16
dreflection practice, you know. It just
01:00:17
took took my attention away from the
01:00:19
pain that I was in.
01:00:20
>> Yeah.
01:00:20
>> Yeah.
01:00:21
>> Yeah. I remember you you telling me last
01:00:23
time about um the stem cell transplant.
01:00:26
So, it's from a a young girl in Germany
01:00:28
called Hannah.
01:00:29
>> Yes.
01:00:30
>> Um
01:00:32
due to the the way these um donations
01:00:34
are done, it's like shrouded and
01:00:36
secrecy. So, you know, she doesn't know
01:00:37
who it's going to. You don't know who
01:00:38
it's from. Um, but you just named the
01:00:42
person Hannah.
01:00:43
>> Yeah, it was like serendipitous. So,
01:00:46
yeah, you don't have to die to have a
01:00:48
allergenic stem cell transplant. So, the
01:00:50
donor gets their immune system simulated
01:00:52
to extract these stem cells. So, she's
01:00:54
still alive. So, we can write letters to
01:00:56
one another, but it's kind of edited out
01:00:58
about names and where you're from. But,
01:00:59
I wrote gave her a postcard of the West
01:01:01
Coast and I just wrote that I was a
01:01:03
skydiver and I've been to Everest base
01:01:05
camp and just a bit about me. The names
01:01:06
are out. But when the stem cells came, I
01:01:10
just automatically knew she was a girl.
01:01:12
I knew she was young. That's all I knew.
01:01:13
But I just gave her a name. I said, "Oh,
01:01:15
that's Hannah." So, I just called her
01:01:16
Hannah, you know.
01:01:18
>> Yeah. Why have you you thought about
01:01:20
that?
01:01:20
>> No.
01:01:20
>> Did it just feel like it was a Hannah?
01:01:22
>> It was just like just an int intuition.
01:01:24
I just called her Hannah. That's
01:01:26
>> of all the names, not even a strong
01:01:28
German name. Oh,
01:01:29
>> my cousin My cousin I got a cousin
01:01:30
called Hannah. I don't know. I just
01:01:32
called her Hannah. Yeah. I just It just
01:01:34
came to me. I was in Yeah. Hannah's
01:01:36
coming. It's Hannah. And then we got
01:01:39
then what happened was when I sent that
01:01:40
thank you letter, she wrote letters back
01:01:42
to me. Then I was out after a year. I
01:01:45
was in Nelson and I had a friend working
01:01:47
for Sky Machawaker. She emailed me
01:01:49
saying, "Hey, I think we've got a email
01:01:50
from your donor." I was like, "No, you
01:01:53
don't. That's not allowed to happen."
01:01:54
But she had emailed all the skydiving
01:01:55
centers around New Zealand saying, "Hey,
01:01:57
do you know a guy who's a skydiver who's
01:01:59
had an allergenic stem cell transplant?"
01:02:01
And obviously I was the only one.
01:02:03
>> Oh, but she did that because of the info
01:02:04
you provided on the postcard. Yes, she
01:02:06
had done that. So, she went she went
01:02:08
that avenue and reached out to me and it
01:02:10
was just awesome. And here here her name
01:02:12
comes up on the email Hannah.
01:02:15
And I was like rung up my mom and
01:02:16
sister. I'm like, you'll never guess.
01:02:18
You'll never ever guess. I've just got
01:02:20
an email from my donor and her name's
01:02:22
Hannah.
01:02:23
>> It's actually Hannah. It's like what are
01:02:25
the chances? Seriously.
01:02:27
>> I know. I know.
01:02:28
>> It's crazy.
01:02:28
>> Yeah.
01:02:29
>> Um are you and you you've met her?
01:02:31
>> Yep. Met her a couple of times. Yeah.
01:02:32
Yeah.
01:02:33
>> Are you are you going to connect with
01:02:34
her when you go to the transplant games
01:02:36
and how old is she now?
01:02:38
>> She would be she was n
01:02:40
>> I would say she'd be in her late 20s.
01:02:42
>> Why did she end up donating? Um
01:02:44
>> yeah, good question. So in Germany and
01:02:46
in Europe because we've got um European
01:02:48
ancestry, they um the registar go around
01:02:51
the schools and say, "Oh, do you want to
01:02:53
take a saliva sample to be on the
01:02:54
registry for a bone marrow donor?" And
01:02:57
you know that that year when I was first
01:03:00
diagnosis, they hadn't come around. But
01:03:02
during that 13 months, she'd come on to
01:03:04
the registry and she'd taken the saliva.
01:03:06
She just thought it was a good thing to
01:03:07
do and she never thought she'd be a
01:03:09
donor. But yeah, she ended up saving my
01:03:12
life.
01:03:13
>> And what's involved for for a donor
01:03:15
perspective? It sounds like it'd be more
01:03:17
complex than just donating a pint of
01:03:18
blood.
01:03:19
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit more complex. So
01:03:20
they give us a medication to stimulate
01:03:22
the immune system to kind of extract the
01:03:23
hemopoetic stem cells out of the bone
01:03:25
marrow into the blood. So she goes into
01:03:28
Destin where there's an apheresis
01:03:30
machine. So, it's a bit like diialysis
01:03:31
in a way. So, they kind of extract her
01:03:33
blood, pull the hemopoic stem cells out,
01:03:35
put her blood back in, put those um stem
01:03:37
cells in a bag, and then it's got 92
01:03:39
hours to get from her from the
01:03:41
extraction to me in New Zealand.
01:03:42
>> Wow.
01:03:43
>> Yeah.
01:03:44
>> How But how do how do you remember all
01:03:46
the big words?
01:03:47
>> It's like you're a doctor.
01:03:49
>> No, no. I mean, I love to I love to know
01:03:51
what I've been through and and just
01:03:52
educate myself around it. So, when
01:03:54
people do ask the question, I can give
01:03:55
them the information. Yeah.
01:03:57
>> Yeah. So, so after you get the stem
01:03:58
cells, is that when you get the um
01:04:00
what's it called? The the graph.
01:04:02
>> Yeah. Graph versus host disease. So,
01:04:04
graph rejection.
01:04:05
>> So, the so my blood DNA is different
01:04:08
from my tissue tissue DNA. So, my my
01:04:10
blood DNA is changed. So, my DNA's
01:04:12
changed. So, fun fact about that, Tom,
01:04:14
man. If I was about to kill somebody,
01:04:16
they don't have me on the registry here
01:04:17
in the police station.
01:04:20
>> You could literally get away with
01:04:21
murder.
01:04:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently. Um
01:04:25
so so when the like the pigment in your
01:04:27
skin
01:04:28
>> yes
01:04:28
>> when like what causes that where
01:04:31
>> so that's the that's the graph host
01:04:33
disease. So first it started acutely. It
01:04:35
was in my stomach and in my mouth and I
01:04:37
was spewing up all the time.
01:04:39
>> So they put me on hydro steroids and
01:04:41
amunosuppressants to kind of dampen down
01:04:43
the effect. Um pretty tough medication
01:04:45
to be on especially the steroids they
01:04:47
play with your psychological state a
01:04:49
lot. Um and there's a lot of lot of side
01:04:52
effects from that. So that dampers down.
01:04:55
They kind of um even it out. The immune
01:04:57
system's kind of accepting my body with
01:04:59
the imunosuppressants. So it's kind of
01:05:00
opening up the door a little bit to let
01:05:02
the immune system go through. And it was
01:05:04
working quite well. It was working quite
01:05:07
well. And then I got severely sick
01:05:08
again. I was um I got Yeah. So I went
01:05:12
over to Germany to say thank you to
01:05:13
Hannah. This is what happened. I went
01:05:15
over to Germany and it was very very
01:05:17
cold. Um, but I had to go and say thank
01:05:19
you. Once I got the email, I was like,
01:05:20
"Man, I can't email her. I got to go say
01:05:22
thank you." And I met her. But it was
01:05:24
cold over there and I got admitted to
01:05:26
Berlin Hospital. I got pneumonia and
01:05:29
then I got sent back to New Zealand. And
01:05:31
this is when my my gra that graph host
01:05:33
disease really started to flare up. And
01:05:35
that's when it started like really
01:05:36
attacking me and trying to kill me. It
01:05:38
was starting. So I got graph host
01:05:40
disease screrma. So it's like a
01:05:42
thickening of the tissue. So my fascia
01:05:44
and my collagen is like this buildup. So
01:05:46
it's like I'm wearing a wet suit all the
01:05:47
time in a way. So it was really
01:05:48
compressing against me and I was having
01:05:50
these spasms. Some days I couldn't work
01:05:52
walk for three days. I was just locked
01:05:53
up. It was just so painful. And then my
01:05:56
eyes started to get really irritated. I
01:05:58
couldn't produce tears and very Yeah. I
01:06:01
just Yeah. And my vision was going. Had
01:06:02
to have some cataract surgery. Um I've
01:06:06
got blood drops now from other people's
01:06:07
plasma that go in my eye and you know I
01:06:10
wasn't producing saliva very dry and
01:06:12
ulcerated and everything like that. So
01:06:14
it was really really killing me and
01:06:16
that's when the pigmentation started
01:06:17
happening. And then I got this thing
01:06:19
called trigeminal neuralgia described as
01:06:21
the worst pain known to man because 20%
01:06:23
of people who get this take their life.
01:06:26
Phenomenally painful. It was incredibly
01:06:28
it's it's still physically the worst
01:06:29
pain that I've been through. Um and I
01:06:32
was just screaming in the hospital. I
01:06:34
have every pain medication you could
01:06:35
think of to try and dampen down the
01:06:36
effect. So there's a trigeminal nerve
01:06:38
that runs down the left side of your
01:06:39
face and it was just flared up and it
01:06:41
was starting to attack me there and yeah
01:06:44
my GBHD was just out of control and my
01:06:46
body was fully rejecting me. So I became
01:06:48
like a tin man stuck in my own body
01:06:51
could barely people were getting me out
01:06:53
of bed tying my shoes and stuff. So
01:06:56
>> for how long?
01:06:57
>> I was like that for about maybe six
01:07:00
seven months
01:07:01
>> and then after the after the the
01:07:03
trigeminal neuralgia Dr. Ruth Spear said
01:07:05
this is enough.
01:07:06
>> Amazing lady Ruth Spearing she advocated
01:07:08
me to get treatment in Melbourne which
01:07:10
we didn't have in New Zealand called ECP
01:07:12
extra corporal phototharesis to kind of
01:07:15
dampen down this immune um immune
01:07:17
response this graph host disease I was
01:07:18
carrying. So I got accepted and then I
01:07:21
got flown into Melbourne to get
01:07:22
treatment. So I was supposed to be there
01:07:23
for about 6 months.
01:07:27
Yeah, it's tough.
01:07:30
>> Yeah, I've heard you um Yeah, we'll talk
01:07:32
a bit about the Melbourne stuff cuz um
01:07:34
there's um yeah, wonderful story in
01:07:36
there about how you met your wife.
01:07:38
>> Um
01:07:39
>> but I heard you on another maybe another
01:07:41
podcast or maybe a keynote speech. Um
01:07:45
there were there were times like when
01:07:47
you were going to Melbourne where you
01:07:48
like you you say you considered like
01:07:50
standing in front of a tram.
01:07:52
>> Yeah. Yeah. A lot had happened in that
01:07:54
time, Dom. A lot had happened. So, after
01:07:57
my first diagnosis, I had a high value
01:07:59
system of love. You know, that was my
01:08:00
high value system. And I had a
01:08:02
girlfriend. Haven't spoken about this,
01:08:03
but I think it's appropriate. I found a
01:08:05
girlfriend when I was traveling through
01:08:06
Thailand before my skydiving diploma.
01:08:09
Meet her. She was German. So, she came
01:08:10
out to be with me through my transplant.
01:08:12
She was an amazing girl. Amazing girl.
01:08:14
We had a great relationship. She's
01:08:15
holding my hand through all those trials
01:08:17
and tribulations. You know, I had a good
01:08:19
connection there. However, it didn't end
01:08:21
end very well. So, when I went to
01:08:22
Germany to meet her, I was with my
01:08:24
ex-girlfriend living in Berlin. And when
01:08:28
I went back, things happened. You know,
01:08:30
she's young. She's at university. I
01:08:33
don't talk about it cuz I don't want
01:08:34
people to hold judgment against her.
01:08:35
>> But it hurt me hard. It like [ __ ] me
01:08:38
up because I had this high value system,
01:08:39
like a vertical value system. Now I have
01:08:41
a horizontal value system. So, if one
01:08:42
value pulls up, I can block them
01:08:44
together like a Tetris game. So, that
01:08:46
just blew me apart. I've never cried so
01:08:47
much after breaking and hearing what
01:08:49
happened, what occurred, you know?
01:08:52
listeners can use their own imagination
01:08:53
there. Don't have to go into details.
01:08:55
Anyways, so breaking up with her just
01:08:58
completely destroyed me. So I think from
01:09:00
that issue, my graph host disease fled
01:09:03
up from that and I was completely hurt.
01:09:06
And so here's my value system completely
01:09:08
shaken up. I've got all this pain. Graph
01:09:11
host disease. I'm dying. And yes, I was
01:09:12
in Melbourne by myself. My brother was
01:09:14
there for the first two weeks. Amazing
01:09:16
guy. My brother, love you heaps, Jake.
01:09:18
Helped set me up. And then I was by
01:09:19
myself. And I was having issues with my
01:09:22
heart and you know I was like who the
01:09:25
[ __ ] am I? You know is someone going to
01:09:26
love me? And yeah I'd stand by the tram
01:09:29
and just think just jump man. But I
01:09:32
couldn't I never do it. I'd never make
01:09:34
that choice but I just really wanted to.
01:09:37
I mean Melbourne was tough Dom. It
01:09:39
really was. Even to go get my groceries
01:09:41
like needles in my eyes. I couldn't
01:09:42
produce saliva. I was just locked up
01:09:44
like this old man.
01:09:45
>> And all the memories come back of you
01:09:47
running. you can't do that and jumping
01:09:49
out of planes and you couldn't do it.
01:09:50
But it was that constant struggle, you
01:09:53
know, you just constant struggle. It's
01:09:54
like you can't take your life, you can't
01:09:56
take it. It's okay. There's an
01:09:58
opportunity. It's a constant mantra to
01:10:00
yourself. Breaking it down to the small
01:10:02
components. And I wouldn't go out of my
01:10:03
room. I'd have my treatment, go home.
01:10:05
Actually befriended a homeless man and
01:10:07
and just sat next to him and used to
01:10:08
have conversations with him. He told me
01:10:10
his story. He was just around the
01:10:12
corner. And just being in Melbourne for
01:10:14
that first 6 to 7 months was hard. I was
01:10:16
having issues with my heart and they did
01:10:19
the test did and stress test and that
01:10:21
nothing was happening. I got sent into
01:10:22
intensive care cuz my tronin levels were
01:10:25
up. That's an inflammation of the heart.
01:10:28
I was there by myself and I was just so
01:10:30
confused and and and just lost. And then
01:10:33
um I found what happened was my friend
01:10:37
sent me um treatment was going okay. It
01:10:39
was going okay but I hadn't got full
01:10:41
relief.
01:10:42
and my friend sent me this doco vice do
01:10:46
about Wimhof
01:10:47
>> and I started kind of doing his method.
01:10:49
>> Um I'm not a Wimhof instructor. I just
01:10:51
want to put that out there. I don't
01:10:52
teach that breathing method. Um however,
01:10:56
it just gave me some it just helped me
01:10:58
feel a bit better and I started having
01:11:00
cold showers and things like that. So it
01:11:01
gave me a bit of a purpose to wake up
01:11:03
for. I went to his retreat, one of his
01:11:05
first retreats in Australasia and I was
01:11:08
really excited. I met some really cool
01:11:09
people the first night. I sat next to
01:11:10
this guy called Lars and he had been in
01:11:12
Okarto which was on the west coast a
01:11:14
small town and he was from Sweden. So
01:11:15
having this cool conversation connecting
01:11:17
with individuals however I never got to
01:11:19
attend the course itself. I woke up in
01:11:21
the morning
01:11:24
and had a massive heart attack.
01:11:28
Yeah. Massive heart attack. And I was
01:11:31
like I'm in this group of people. I'm
01:11:33
really excited. My life's just been
01:11:35
thrown at me. I'm in Melbourne by
01:11:37
myself. And man, I was just I was just
01:11:40
heartbroken. Literally heart attack.
01:11:42
Literally.
01:11:44
>> Um couldn't get out of bed. It took me
01:11:45
40 minutes to ask for help, man. Cuz I
01:11:48
was so embarrassed.
01:11:49
>> Why were you embarrassed?
01:11:57
>> It's hard it is to talk about
01:12:01
cuz I couldn't jump out out of a I
01:12:03
couldn't jump in front of a tram.
01:12:05
Thought [ __ ] it.
01:12:09
Maybe my heart might just stop.
01:12:13
So I was there for a while. I just sat
01:12:16
there and just [ __ ] just [ __ ] take
01:12:18
me.
01:12:20
>> But then I just reached out and I said,
01:12:21
"Hey, I need some help." Guy Lawrence, a
01:12:23
guy and he he ran the ambulance and I
01:12:25
got taken out. I just had my hand on my
01:12:26
face and am took me to Jalong Hospital.
01:12:30
I was so angry, man.
01:12:32
>> Angry.
01:12:34
>> Just at life.
01:12:36
>> Just frustrated. Yeah, I mean we've all
01:12:39
got the freedom to choose our attitude,
01:12:40
but my attitude wasn't good then. And I
01:12:43
just vented and the doctor was there and
01:12:44
I feel sorry for her. The words that I
01:12:46
said to her was no good. And you know, I
01:12:49
had more heart attacks, flipped the ECG
01:12:50
upside down.
01:12:52
>> I had to get put into a separate room
01:12:53
with security.
01:12:56
And
01:12:56
>> just breaking point, eh?
01:13:01
I can tell. Plum. Yeah, you you're still
01:13:03
embarrassed now that you um
01:13:05
>> you know were impolite or aggressive to
01:13:08
>> you know I just these verbal words this
01:13:10
fire will come out of my mouth and she's
01:13:12
like I'm not having this you were in got
01:13:14
put into a separate room of security and
01:13:16
just thought man what the [ __ ] going
01:13:17
on all this stuff is anything going to
01:13:19
get any better but I still had hope
01:13:21
>> I still had Victor Frankle I still had
01:13:23
my faith and that held me together I
01:13:26
still had my mom and my family and and
01:13:29
then I got sent to back to Peter
01:13:32
McCullum Cancer Center.
01:13:34
My hematologist was there, Simon
01:13:35
Harrison. He saw me have another two
01:13:37
heart attacks, ECGs flipped upside down,
01:13:39
and sent me over to the Royal Melbourne
01:13:41
Hospital in the cardiac unit where I was
01:13:42
there for 24 days.
01:13:45
>> Cuz there's that saying um this two
01:13:48
shall pass. But if you're going through
01:13:50
if you're going through like a [ __ ]
01:13:52
storm and it's a 10 year long [ __ ]
01:13:53
storm, like it's [ __ ] hard to stay
01:13:56
positive, eh?
01:13:57
>> [ __ ] hard, man.
01:13:58
>> It's so hard. Negativity is a part of
01:14:00
it, too. But it's not staying in that
01:14:02
state for too long.
01:14:03
>> And I did try and ring Jalong Hospital
01:14:05
to say sorry and apologize and
01:14:06
everything like that. But it's not
01:14:08
staying in that negative state too long.
01:14:09
>> Yeah.
01:14:10
>> And luckily I could pull myself out of
01:14:11
that state with the pain and discomfort
01:14:14
I was carrying and just look for the
01:14:15
future. Hold on to that hope. Have that
01:14:18
courage to continue.
01:14:20
>> How was your ego at that time like
01:14:22
around your appearance?
01:14:25
>> Oh, I lost complete confidence. time.
01:14:28
>> M
01:14:29
>> I was embarrassed to go out, man. Just I
01:14:32
look like an old man, you know. I felt
01:14:35
like an old man. Yeah. So trying to
01:14:37
reclaim my confidence was a big thing.
01:14:39
Try to learn that. But um yeah, it was
01:14:42
it was so tough. So I was in there for
01:14:44
24 days and this is what I talk about
01:14:47
meaning. I was in this room with an
01:14:49
Indian girl and she'd come over to
01:14:50
Melbourne to study and the guy she'd had
01:14:54
a medical defect and she'd put on a
01:14:56
health insurance and he was coming in
01:14:58
but not helping her. He was an insurance
01:14:59
guy saying no it's not going to be
01:15:01
funded and she's like no I've put it
01:15:02
there they've already proved it but he
01:15:03
wasn't helping her. So I called him a
01:15:05
side man. I said listen you're not doing
01:15:07
your job. Help her out. She's put it on
01:15:10
her form. Help her out. Advocate for
01:15:12
her. Do your job. Next day she was all
01:15:15
approved and had her surgery. She just
01:15:17
broke down in tears and said, "Thanks."
01:15:18
You know, I was like, "Well, that's
01:15:20
that's not right. Him not doing his job,
01:15:21
just turning out for a paycheck." So,
01:15:24
helping other people help me through my
01:15:26
own process.
01:15:28
>> Yeah.
01:15:31
>> So, was at this part um where you're
01:15:34
flying backwards and forth from
01:15:36
Melbourne that you met your wife?
01:15:38
>> Yeah.
01:15:39
>> Cibil.
01:15:39
>> Sibil. Yeah.
01:15:40
>> Yeah. I met her in Christ Church 3 years
01:15:41
ago. She was eight months pregnant at
01:15:43
the time.
01:15:43
>> She was.
01:15:44
>> Yeah.
01:15:44
>> Yeah. Amazing. This this is the craziest
01:15:47
most serendipitous story imaginable.
01:15:51
>> It really is. It's unfathomable.
01:15:53
Sometimes I look back from a wide
01:15:55
aperture. What the heck? You know, what
01:15:57
the heck has just gone on? So, I'm in
01:15:59
Melbourne Hospital 24 days, had 12 heart
01:16:02
attacks in total. The doctor comes in
01:16:05
the com the Olympics were in Rio de
01:16:07
Janeiro. I had two of my former
01:16:08
competitors, Julian Matthews and Hamish
01:16:11
Carson running the 1500. And he comes
01:16:12
in, he goes, "Congratulations, Josh. who
01:16:14
won the gold medal for um for the most
01:16:17
spoken about patient in the hospital.
01:16:19
And I had to write him a letter. I said,
01:16:21
"Listen, man. I don't care if I live or
01:16:22
die. Just make a decision. Back yourself
01:16:24
and make a decision. Learn from me as a
01:16:25
patient." They hadn't come from come
01:16:27
across a patient like me before.
01:16:29
>> Meaning, how do you mean? Meaning
01:16:30
>> just with my disease and my issues that
01:16:32
I had. So, they didn't know whether to
01:16:33
give me a heart bypass, open me, cut me
01:16:36
open. So, they didn't know whether my
01:16:37
skin would heal or the artery would
01:16:39
heal. So, they ended up doing a stent to
01:16:41
my left main artery, just stinking it.
01:16:43
So job done. After all that time, after
01:16:46
discussion and deliberation, I I had to
01:16:49
encourage him to make that decision.
01:16:50
Done deal. Got out and then I was trying
01:16:53
to get myself back together. I found
01:16:55
this place called Fifth Element
01:16:56
Wellness. Great place. Just transformed
01:16:59
my life. Yeah. Started doing gut gut um
01:17:02
gut protocols. I was exercising,
01:17:05
breaking it down into small components.
01:17:06
A great guy called Anthony Anthony Msino
01:17:08
and Dave O'Brien were helping out. And I
01:17:10
found a good friend called Mark Claw. So
01:17:11
I established a community and I always
01:17:13
talk about connection and community is
01:17:15
the foundation of health and it really
01:17:16
is. So I was getting this in in into me
01:17:19
when I was um having my treatment and my
01:17:21
treatment started to work better cuz
01:17:22
what I was doing outside of my treatment
01:17:24
the inflammation was starting to
01:17:25
downregulate so my treatment would
01:17:27
function better. So it was starting to
01:17:28
get a bit better and I was feeling
01:17:29
better within myself. Had my first ice
01:17:31
bath. I felt absolutely incredible
01:17:33
afterwards and I felt a sense of
01:17:34
positivity. Really felt it within my
01:17:36
nervous system. So that's why I do cold
01:17:39
exposure a a lot, you know, and I felt
01:17:42
it has an analesic effect. It really
01:17:44
does. Um, sorry we're deterred from
01:17:46
civil, but I just had to talk about how
01:17:48
I got myself into talking to people
01:17:49
again
01:17:50
>> because I had that component bit of a
01:17:52
community and I was feeling good inside
01:17:53
myself.
01:17:53
>> So that gave you a bit of confidence.
01:17:55
>> It did.
01:17:55
>> But did did people like strangers like
01:17:57
look at look at you funny? Could you
01:17:59
sense people looking at you funny or
01:18:00
>> Yeah, definitely. People would look at
01:18:02
you with a double eye. But then again,
01:18:04
it's not my responsibility to how they
01:18:07
think or look. For sure, I look
01:18:09
different. They have the right to look
01:18:10
at me a few times.
01:18:12
>> It's my responsibility to to project on
01:18:15
how they're feeling. Like, it was silly
01:18:16
for me to think, "Oh, you know, they
01:18:19
think this, they think that. They can
01:18:20
think whatever they want. I just have to
01:18:21
think good about myself." And I do now.
01:18:23
I do. I I I don't. It doesn't worry me.
01:18:26
It worries me what is what I feel about
01:18:28
myself. That's my concern. So, I'm
01:18:30
feeling a bit better, more confident,
01:18:32
and I'm starting to engage with people.
01:18:33
Not not too concerned about their kind
01:18:35
of reaction to me. So, I'm flying back
01:18:38
and forth from Melbourne cuz
01:18:39
everything's starting to go well. I
01:18:41
still have a whole host of
01:18:42
complications. So, I have to stay there
01:18:43
for 3 months, come back. But on this
01:18:44
certain flight, as you spoke about, I
01:18:47
meet this amazing person, this amazing,
01:18:50
amazing girl. She's transformed my life.
01:18:52
So, we're on the plane and she comes and
01:18:54
sits down and I say, "Hey, how are you?"
01:18:57
And she goes, "Oh, good. Thank you. have
01:18:59
we chat and she's just backpacked around
01:19:01
New Zealand. She asked me what am I up
01:19:03
to? I said, I'm seeing my brother, which
01:19:05
you know, he's living in Melbourne at
01:19:06
the time now. And then I asked her, you
01:19:09
know, what do you do for a job? You
01:19:11
know, what do you do? You know, she's
01:19:12
from Switzerland. She's traveling
01:19:13
around. She's doing a backpacking. And I
01:19:15
said, what do you do for a job? What do
01:19:16
you do for work in Switzerland? And she
01:19:18
said, I'm a cancer nurse, oncology
01:19:19
nurse.
01:19:21
So, this is where your confidence comes
01:19:22
back, Dom. I picked up my confidence and
01:19:24
I and this was my pickup line to her. I
01:19:27
said, "Oh, do you want to come and see
01:19:28
some cancer treatment?" I'm actually in
01:19:29
Melbourne to get some of this treatment.
01:19:33
>> Sexy,
01:19:34
>> really attractive. I don't recommend it
01:19:36
to anyone,
01:19:38
but yeah, she um she said, "Yeah, sure.
01:19:40
Sure." And I thought she was just being
01:19:41
polite. She's, you know, she's an
01:19:44
amazing person. I thought she was being
01:19:45
polite. And sure enough, I said, "Meet
01:19:47
me at Parliament building on the top of
01:19:48
Burke Street at 10:00 a.m." And sure
01:19:50
enough, she was true to her word. And um
01:19:53
she was there. And that was the first of
01:19:56
our of our many dates. So, and and it's
01:19:59
today I've you know I've had a few
01:20:00
hundred treatments there. It was the
01:20:01
first time it's ever been delayed. So,
01:20:03
she wanted to hang out with me in the
01:20:04
morning. We had a lot in common. We
01:20:06
spent the week together.
01:20:11
>> Yes. What does your health look like
01:20:12
now? You're mostly pretty good. Like, do
01:20:15
you still have to go in for, you know,
01:20:17
regular checkups or anything like that?
01:20:19
>> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still under medical
01:20:21
medical control. I mean, I, as I said,
01:20:23
after that 10k run, I pushed it a bit
01:20:25
too far. I had a few issues. My my body
01:20:27
turned on me a bit, so I had to adjust
01:20:28
my medication back in hospital for a
01:20:30
little bit. But yeah, I do have issues
01:20:32
for sure, but I but I can handle them
01:20:34
mentally,
01:20:34
>> and I'm embracing life for what it has.
01:20:36
I mean, I have my amazing wife with me,
01:20:38
>> you know, we have a daughter. Um, I can
01:20:40
run again. I mean, shuffle, whatever,
01:20:42
whatever you want to call it, but I can
01:20:44
partake in life, Dom.
01:20:45
>> I can partake in life. and the
01:20:48
opportunities that I have and and and
01:20:50
the people that I've connected with and
01:20:53
everything that's come into my life and
01:20:54
the values that I've set myself and the
01:20:56
person that I am now. I'm just so happy
01:20:58
about that. I'm I'm just so grateful
01:21:00
that I'm living my true authentic life
01:21:03
with what I've been given, you know,
01:21:05
what I've been given and I'm and I'm
01:21:07
working with that, not against it.
01:21:10
>> You are genuinely one of the best people
01:21:11
I know.
01:21:14
like your your attitude is just so rock
01:21:16
solid.
01:21:16
>> Yeah. But it took a lot of learning. It
01:21:18
took a lot of learning and it took a lot
01:21:20
of work.
01:21:21
>> But yes,
01:21:23
I am so grateful to be here today alive
01:21:26
and breathing
01:21:26
>> and and you've been you'll probably
01:21:29
argue this point, but um you've been
01:21:31
dealt a rough hand.
01:21:33
>> I have. Absolutely. I have. I admit
01:21:35
that.
01:21:36
>> But I'm so proud of myself with the way
01:21:38
I've dealt with that hand. You know,
01:21:40
I've forgiven my ex-girlfriend. Um,
01:21:43
we're friends. I've thanked everyone
01:21:45
that's come into my life, whether it's
01:21:46
good or bad. And I've set myself good
01:21:49
values that I've lived up to
01:21:52
>> and I think that's the most important
01:21:53
thing in life. You know, we talk about
01:21:55
success, whether it's monetary, for
01:21:56
sure, money something, but it's not
01:21:57
everything.
01:21:58
>> But for me, success is, you know, when
01:22:01
I've set myself values, my authentic
01:22:03
values, who are me horizontally,
01:22:06
and I live up to them, for sure, not all
01:22:08
the time, but I'm trying my best, and I
01:22:10
can die with peace in my heart. I've
01:22:12
tried to be a good husband.
01:22:14
I've tried to be a good dad, you know,
01:22:18
that I can play with my daughter on the
01:22:21
on the trampoline. That was the first
01:22:23
goal, Dom, to get myself back on my
01:22:24
feet, to play with her and giggle and
01:22:27
laugh and see the growth in her. I've
01:22:30
just tried. And if God is up there and
01:22:33
he opens up the doors, he just pats me
01:22:34
on the back and says, "Hey, man, you did
01:22:36
a good job.
01:22:37
>> You tried your best with the hands
01:22:38
you've been given."
01:22:39
>> Yeah. You've mentioned prayer a couple
01:22:42
of times in this chat. Are you are you a
01:22:43
religious man?
01:22:44
>> Yeah, I mean I don't know about
01:22:46
religious. Religious is a set of set of
01:22:49
values and things, but yeah, I'm
01:22:50
definitely spiritual. I mean, I do
01:22:52
believe in God whether I don't know what
01:22:54
God is, but for me, it's a good
01:22:56
orientated direction.
01:22:57
>> Yeah.
01:22:57
>> And I read the Bible. I get real power
01:23:00
from reading the verses.
01:23:01
>> Yeah. Would you like this pre 2011?
01:23:03
>> No.
01:23:04
>> No.
01:23:04
>> No. I read I first opened up the chapter
01:23:06
after reading Victor Frankle's book and
01:23:08
I read it the Bible in hospital. I
01:23:10
opened up the book to Joshua my name
01:23:12
first chapter uh Joshua 1 vers9 be
01:23:15
strong and of good courage do not be
01:23:17
afraid nor dismayed for the Lord God is
01:23:19
with you. So that verse has kind of
01:23:20
stayed with me. So when I say a practice
01:23:23
of gratitude in the morning that's
01:23:24
that's it right there.
01:23:25
>> Yeah.
01:23:26
>> When was the last time you got like
01:23:27
angry or frustrated or lost your temper
01:23:30
with someone?
01:23:31
>> I was cutting pumpkin the other night
01:23:33
mate. Oh, I hate cutting pumpkins.
01:23:39
No, I mean, I get frustrated. I'm just
01:23:41
normal like anybody else. But it's not
01:23:42
staying in that frustration.
01:23:44
>> You seem You seem like one of the most
01:23:45
zen people I know, though.
01:23:47
>> No, talk to my wife. She knows I get
01:23:48
frustrated for sure. I am human, man. I
01:23:51
am. Absolutely. But it's not staying in
01:23:53
that point for too long. And that's
01:23:54
probably what I've I've really learned
01:23:56
has been, "Hey, just downregulate.
01:23:58
>> Control my breathing. Focus on what's
01:24:01
important. What do you have? say sorry,
01:24:03
forgive, go forward.
01:24:05
>> Yeah.
01:24:06
>> Yeah. I sort of find for for me
01:24:08
personally, like when I if I if I find
01:24:10
myself starting to get like frustrated
01:24:12
or snappy with people, it's it's it's
01:24:14
often a sign my mental health isn't
01:24:16
where it should be.
01:24:16
>> Yeah.
01:24:17
>> And it's it's it's actually a good
01:24:18
little warning sign that I need to, you
01:24:20
know, have like a reset or get some
01:24:22
things get some ducks in a row.
01:24:24
>> Yeah. Yeah. Just take a step back and
01:24:26
say, why am I thinking this way? What
01:24:28
what do I need right now? What's gone on
01:24:30
to cause this reaction? and just have a
01:24:32
bit of self-reflect reflecting practice.
01:24:34
>> What about your mental health?
01:24:35
>> Yeah.
01:24:36
>> Excellent.
01:24:37
>> Yeah, it's it's amazing from where it
01:24:38
was. Absolutely amazing. Sure. As you
01:24:41
said, do I get frustrated? Absolutely I
01:24:42
do. I wake up, first thing I think about
01:24:45
is like, oh no, but then I have to
01:24:47
de-reflect. What do I have? Calm myself
01:24:49
down, focus. But yeah, mental health is
01:24:52
good. It's stable. I don't have I mean
01:24:54
yes I do have suicidal thoughts
01:24:56
especially when I was last year when I
01:24:59
went back had a few issues with my graph
01:25:01
host disease it does come back but as I
01:25:03
said before I have the ability to not
01:25:05
linger there stay there and let it
01:25:07
consume me.
01:25:08
>> Yeah.
01:25:10
>> Yeah. a therapist I saw, she she asked
01:25:12
me if I'd um ever had suicidal thoughts
01:25:14
and it's the first time I told anyone
01:25:16
out loud and I said I was bracing myself
01:25:18
like I thought I was going to be lock
01:25:19
locked up in a straight jacket and taken
01:25:21
to some sort of facility and I was like
01:25:23
yeah I have and she just sort of
01:25:24
shrugged her shoulders and she goes well
01:25:26
I mean thinking about it and doing it
01:25:27
are actually two very very different
01:25:29
things.
01:25:29
>> Absolutely correct.
01:25:31
>> That was a a huge release me of a huge
01:25:33
amount of guilt and shame.
01:25:35
>> Awesome.
01:25:36
>> I'm glad you saw someone man.
01:25:37
>> Yeah. Yeah. How long did it take you to
01:25:39
see somebody? And why did you decide to
01:25:40
see someone?
01:25:40
>> 45 years.
01:25:42
>> I don't know. I was um it was way way
01:25:46
longer than what it should have been. Um
01:25:49
and ultimately um there was a friend of
01:25:51
mine that like booked a therapist behind
01:25:52
my back and said, "You're [ __ ] going
01:25:54
to a therapist." I was just nervous
01:25:56
about I didn't know what like I thought
01:25:57
you go in there and I wasn't sure where
01:25:59
where to start or how you'd start or
01:26:01
>> I could I I was depressed, but I I
01:26:04
didn't even know why. I couldn't I
01:26:05
couldn't tell you why. And I and I I
01:26:07
felt
01:26:09
um guilty about feeling depressed
01:26:11
because it's like well [ __ ] like Josh
01:26:13
Josh Josh you know Josh is happier than
01:26:15
me and he's got a lot to be unhappy
01:26:16
about for example or you know what I
01:26:18
mean. Um so you feel guilty that you're
01:26:20
feeling depressed and you're like I've
01:26:21
got no reason to be sad about anything.
01:26:24
Um but therapy was the Yeah, it was
01:26:26
really really good. Just gives you a
01:26:27
different way of reframing and looking
01:26:28
at different things. I felt like an
01:26:30
idiot for putting it off for so long.
01:26:31
>> No, not at all. I mean life's hard mate.
01:26:34
M
01:26:34
>> we've all got our own challenges.
01:26:35
Whether you got a heap of money or
01:26:36
whether you don't,
01:26:38
>> we've all got challenges to face.
01:26:40
>> But as you just stated, you know,
01:26:42
feeling guilty about going to talk to
01:26:44
somebody, you know, we go to the gym to
01:26:46
to to build muscle. Why don't we go and
01:26:48
speak to someone to build mental
01:26:49
strength?
01:26:50
>> Why don't we do that? Should be a common
01:26:52
norm,
01:26:53
>> you know, and I highly advocate that.
01:26:54
>> Yeah. 100%. Yeah. It's like a personal
01:26:56
trainer for the neck up, I say.
01:26:58
>> Absolutely. Absolutely.
01:27:00
>> Also, who doesn't who doesn't like
01:27:01
talking about themselves for an hour?
01:27:03
That's great.
01:27:04
>> Oh yeah, it can get it can get a bit
01:27:06
annoying.
01:27:07
>> Um I um mentioned you were coming and I
01:27:09
got some um questions from people on
01:27:11
Instagram.
01:27:11
>> Oh yeah.
01:27:12
>> How can someone develop a more resilient
01:27:14
mindset when facing adversity?
01:27:22
Um that's a really good question. I've
01:27:24
just finished reading a book a while ago
01:27:27
called Resilience. Um the science behind
01:27:30
Overcoming Life's Challenges. Great book
01:27:32
to read. There's 10 steps in there what
01:27:33
we can do and a lot of them is what
01:27:35
we've discussed on um ones like
01:27:37
community having connections finding
01:27:39
well-being practices um finding meaning
01:27:42
in your life um you know adopting a
01:27:46
breathing practice to downregulate a bit
01:27:48
to be able to assess yourself I mean um
01:27:51
also too you know voluntarily doing hard
01:27:55
things builds resilience as well I mean
01:27:57
when that fear comes in you know just go
01:28:00
into it lean into it a little bit try
01:28:02
it, test it, and then you know where
01:28:03
you're at, you know, give that a go. So
01:28:06
that's part of those 10 factors as well.
01:28:08
>> So for me, having that community base, I
01:28:10
mean, courage comes from encouragement.
01:28:12
That's where it comes from. That builds
01:28:14
resilience. Um, connecting. Yeah.
01:28:17
Communication, that positive
01:28:18
communication. Um, and reading books,
01:28:21
getting perspective, that's been part of
01:28:23
it as well. That that was in the 10
01:28:25
steps. So reading,
01:28:28
breathing, finding a practice for
01:28:30
yourself,
01:28:32
>> leaning into hard things. Um, yeah, that
01:28:36
that's what I recommend.
01:28:39
>> Yeah, cuz you can train yourself to be
01:28:41
more resilient. E,
01:28:42
>> yeah, you can.
01:28:43
>> Yeah, absolutely.
01:28:44
>> I think it's something that you do have
01:28:45
to actively sort of work on.
01:28:47
>> Yeah.
01:28:47
>> Um, how can we start to treat every day
01:28:49
as a gift?
01:28:54
Take a bit of time for yourself. Close
01:28:56
your eyes
01:28:58
and see yourself. See yourself on top of
01:29:01
a mountain. Look at where you've been.
01:29:03
Look at the highs in your life. Those
01:29:06
real peak moments on the mountain. Look
01:29:08
at the lows. Ask yourself what you've
01:29:11
learned.
01:29:12
And then come back to where you are and
01:29:15
go forward.
01:29:18
What role does gratitude play in overall
01:29:20
well-being and happiness?
01:29:22
>> Uh there's a lot to do with gratitude
01:29:24
there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean
01:29:26
gratitude just gives you a sense of what
01:29:28
you do have in your life right now. And
01:29:30
if we are living in New Zealand in this
01:29:32
amazing country, we do have a lot around
01:29:33
us. Even though the aperture might be
01:29:36
narrow,
01:29:37
>> um we've had a lot of opportunities. We
01:29:39
we get given a lot. Yeah. So that
01:29:41
gratitude of just being where you are
01:29:44
right now, of what you do have
01:29:46
um really gives you a good perspective
01:29:48
of how to go forward.
01:29:50
>> What does um the phrase living fully
01:29:53
mean to you?
01:29:54
>> Living fully. Um I think just living up
01:29:55
to your values that you set yourself.
01:29:57
>> Yeah.
01:29:57
>> Yeah. I truly believe that. Yep. Living
01:29:59
fully. It's not essentially going out
01:30:00
there and making an awesome bucket list
01:30:02
and achieving them. It's just being
01:30:04
present in the moment, understanding who
01:30:06
you are, set some values for yourself
01:30:08
that you truly believe and action them.
01:30:11
That's what I think living a full life
01:30:12
is.
01:30:13
>> Yeah.
01:30:13
>> Yeah. what what are your values like
01:30:16
when when it comes to like um
01:30:18
>> you know absolute cornerstones.
01:30:20
>> Yeah. So our family we've developed a
01:30:22
value system so it's called basic we've
01:30:25
got to break break things down to a
01:30:26
basic component. So B is belief. We both
01:30:28
believe in God and we both believe in
01:30:29
each other you know that's a that's one
01:30:31
belief and then we have A which is
01:30:33
attitude. We spoke about always looking
01:30:35
for a positive attitude. And then S is
01:30:37
simple. Just breaking things down into
01:30:39
its simple component um so we're not
01:30:41
getting too overwhelmed. What can we
01:30:42
control? what can't we control? I is for
01:30:45
internal. So looking out after our
01:30:46
health and wellbeing. So that's really
01:30:48
important for our family. And then the
01:30:50
three C's at the end is connection,
01:30:52
communication, and courage. So obviously
01:30:54
we've spoken connection and
01:30:55
communication over the podcast, but
01:30:57
courage too. Courage to lean into those
01:30:59
hard things. So they're our kind of
01:31:01
basic values for our family. That's what
01:31:02
I have. And it's written down
01:31:04
horizontally. So there's no one value
01:31:06
that supersedes the other.
01:31:08
>> Yeah.
01:31:09
>> What a great answer. God, I'm so pleased
01:31:10
I asked that question. I thought you'd
01:31:12
have an answer for it. I didn't realize
01:31:13
it would be so
01:31:15
>> Our values are important to me.
01:31:16
>> Yeah. Yeah, they are. And that's really
01:31:18
good for our family. Yeah.
01:31:20
>> Yeah.
01:31:21
>> For someone going through their darkest
01:31:22
moments, what advice would you give
01:31:24
them?
01:31:25
>> Reach out for help.
01:31:26
>> You know, take your time for a bit and
01:31:28
just reach out for somebody. Just ring
01:31:29
them up, whether you're crying, whatever
01:31:32
is going on, just have a conversation
01:31:34
just to share that load. Yeah. That's
01:31:36
that's that's the best thing we can do.
01:31:39
>> And you, what's your inner voice like?
01:31:40
Are you quite kind to yourself?
01:31:42
>> Yeah, I am pretty kind to myself. Yeah.
01:31:44
Yeah. I mean, I make mistakes like
01:31:45
everybody, but it's not lingering in
01:31:47
that mistake problem for too long. And I
01:31:49
say, "Hey, you tried your best with what
01:31:51
you knew. You're not perfect. Try
01:31:52
again."
01:31:53
>> Yeah.
01:31:54
>> Yeah. Victor Frankle's got a great quote
01:31:56
about that actually about mistakes. He's
01:31:57
like, "Live as if you're living the
01:31:59
first time as if you're acting for the
01:32:01
second time as wrongly as you're about
01:32:02
to act now."
01:32:03
>> So, it kind of brings you into that
01:32:04
moment. We're not perfect, but you've
01:32:07
got a second chance to make amends on
01:32:08
that situation.
01:32:09
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:32:10
>> What does a bad day look look like for
01:32:12
you? Now,
01:32:13
>> a bad day for me, Dom, is when my body's
01:32:16
just completely seized up through the
01:32:17
night. I've had sleep deprivation. I'm
01:32:19
in, you know, real discomfort and I have
01:32:22
to contend with that. And I've done a
01:32:24
couple of keynote talks where that's
01:32:25
been the issue and I've turned up and I
01:32:27
probably haven't delivered my best talk
01:32:29
or or connected with an individual that
01:32:31
I probably should have been listening
01:32:32
because I'm more intertceptively
01:32:35
aware of of where my pain was. Yeah,
01:32:38
that's that's pretty bad day. or if I
01:32:39
haven't spoken to my wife appropriately
01:32:41
or or Yeah. something like that.
01:32:44
>> Yeah. Best and worst habits. What would
01:32:46
they be?
01:32:48
>> Best habits? Consistency.
01:32:50
>> Determination.
01:32:51
>> Yeah.
01:32:52
>> Yeah. That's my best habit.
01:32:54
>> Worst habits. I mean,
01:32:56
>> your best habits can be your worst
01:32:57
habits. You know, my determination can
01:32:59
kind of
01:33:00
>> supersede my my wife what she's thinking
01:33:02
and, you know, that causes a bit of
01:33:04
conflict. Um, she'll pull me back a lot,
01:33:06
which is good. She keeps me accountable.
01:33:08
So yeah, I think your best habits
01:33:10
sometimes work out to be your worst
01:33:11
habits.
01:33:12
>> Yeah.
01:33:13
>> What are you most afraid of?
01:33:15
>> Not living an authentic life.
01:33:17
>> Not living up to my my meaning potential
01:33:21
within this world while I've got life.
01:33:24
And yeah, I'm not scared of dying. I'm
01:33:27
not fearful of that. We're all dying
01:33:29
slowly. But I'm not I am concerned about
01:33:32
not living an authentic life and not
01:33:34
being the role model for my daughter and
01:33:38
for her to live her life as well.
01:33:40
>> Yeah. What what's she like? She she's
01:33:43
I've I've
01:33:45
met her. I met her.
01:33:46
>> No. Yeah. I think you you met her and
01:33:48
when Yeah. Um Sibil was eight months
01:33:51
pregnant at the time. So now she's like
01:33:52
walking and saying words and talking.
01:33:54
>> Oh, she's walking, mate. She's an animal
01:33:55
on the scooter. She's Yeah, she's great.
01:33:58
She is just a bundle of life. She's she
01:34:01
speaks two languages. She's now my
01:34:03
teacher. She'll tell me off if I'm not
01:34:05
speaking German properly.
01:34:09
No, she's she's just such a amazing
01:34:11
girl. And her middle name her middle
01:34:13
name is Maya Hannah from from our donor,
01:34:15
too.
01:34:16
>> So, I mean, she loves the trampolines,
01:34:19
she loves jumping, she loves climbing,
01:34:20
she's just a typical kid. She frustrates
01:34:22
the heck out of you, but then she just
01:34:24
brings such life into into your world,
01:34:26
you know? She is the shining light
01:34:28
within our family.
01:34:29
>> Has she expressed any interest in
01:34:31
getting in your ice bath yet?
01:34:32
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She goes, "Da, ice
01:34:34
bath. Da ice bath." And put me in, but
01:34:35
she'll put her legs in and come back
01:34:37
out. She loves to watch, too. But she
01:34:39
Oh, cold da. Cold dada. But yeah, she's
01:34:42
awesome.
01:34:42
>> Yeah. Oh, you're a good role model.
01:34:44
>> She'll make her own choices around that.
01:34:46
We don't force her.
01:34:47
>> Um, what about regrets?
01:34:49
>> Yeah, I mean, obviously that that being
01:34:51
issue is is a is a regret. maybe some of
01:34:54
the decisions I've made, but
01:34:55
>> Oh, the Thailand thing.
01:34:57
>> Yeah. Yep.
01:34:58
>> Oh, you need to move on from that.
01:35:00
>> For sure I do. But it still lingers with
01:35:01
me. I don't like to hurt my friends and
01:35:03
put them in that position.
01:35:04
>> Yeah.
01:35:05
>> I mean, regrets.
01:35:08
I mean, I've did the opportunities, the
01:35:11
situation has arisen, and I've done the
01:35:12
best that I can with the knowledge that
01:35:14
I've been given.
01:35:15
>> And as a young kid, you don't know
01:35:17
everything.
01:35:18
>> I've made some [ __ ] choices, but I tried
01:35:21
my best with what I knew. Could have
01:35:23
been better for sure, but I'm trying to
01:35:24
work on that to go forward. Yeah.
01:35:26
>> What about future goals?
01:35:28
>> Where where do you see yourself in 10,
01:35:29
20, 30 years?
01:35:30
>> It's a great question, man.
01:35:32
>> Yeah, obviously a good cohesive family.
01:35:35
That's that's really important.
01:35:36
>> More kids perhaps?
01:35:37
>> Probably. Maybe.
01:35:38
>> Have you got more more sperm frozen?
01:35:40
>> Yeah, just it's like going to
01:35:41
McDonald's. I just have to rock up, make
01:35:43
my order through ice.
01:35:46
>> It's like the worst. This snow cone
01:35:48
tastes really funny.
01:35:50
>> No, for sure. Well, I love to be um I'm
01:35:53
working on my speaking skills. I did a
01:35:54
bit of work with Jason Gun and I'm
01:35:56
trying to get my speaking skills up to
01:35:58
up to scratch. I love to be an
01:35:59
international speaker.
01:36:00
>> You do you do a lot of keynotes. E
01:36:01
>> I've done a few keynotes now. Yeah. I
01:36:03
wouldn't say a lot, but I've done a few.
01:36:04
Um and I'm working on that. Really makes
01:36:06
me quite anxious and nervous, especially
01:36:08
talking about what I've been through.
01:36:09
But, you know, having those
01:36:10
conversations afterwards are really
01:36:12
meaningful to me. Um in fact, maybe we
01:36:15
could talk about this. You had a guest
01:36:16
on your podcast and I think it is
01:36:18
appropriate. I he was his name's Jackson
01:36:21
Carden Basher. He was on your podcast.
01:36:24
So I did my first kind of significant
01:36:26
talk to the Highlanders and for me
01:36:29
connection is key and I didn't know what
01:36:31
to expect. I really didn't. I was in a
01:36:32
professional environment. Didn't know
01:36:34
what to expect. Did my talk and it was
01:36:36
like a beehive afterwards. All these
01:36:38
players come up and it was just
01:36:39
incredible. I was blown away. I didn't
01:36:40
know what to expect. There's always
01:36:42
people at the end of a talk that come up
01:36:44
and share with you. So it doesn't come
01:36:45
about rugby. It's not about rugby.
01:36:47
However, there was one guy who waited
01:36:50
till everyone had dispersed and his name
01:36:52
was Connor. Connor Garden Bashet and
01:36:55
I've never met him before. I've watched
01:36:56
him on TV and you make it, you know, and
01:37:00
but he came up to me and we had a moment
01:37:02
of meaning. It wasn't about rugby. I got
01:37:05
to saw Connor for who he was and he
01:37:08
spoke about what do you do if you're two
01:37:11
cuz he had twins. I'm pretty he had
01:37:13
twins. what do you do if your girls are
01:37:17
in pain or agony? And I just said, you
01:37:18
know, you look at them, hold their hand,
01:37:20
and say, "I love you. That's what I do
01:37:21
with my girl." And he just and we just
01:37:24
both crying. We had a connection. We had
01:37:26
a moment. We were there for 10 to 12
01:37:28
minutes. We wrote a few messages
01:37:29
afterwards, but I got that's the beauty
01:37:32
of having these talks in connection.
01:37:35
He's a rugby player, but I got to saw
01:37:37
Connor for who he was in that moment.
01:37:39
And that's very, very special. It's very
01:37:42
special. And it's so sad that he's not
01:37:44
with us today. It hit me. I was up in
01:37:47
Oakland when I was doing a talk for the
01:37:48
Blood Nukemia Foundation just reading
01:37:50
about it. However, I got to see Connor
01:37:53
not as a rugby player, but for the
01:37:55
person who he was. So, bless you,
01:37:58
Connor. Thank you for that moment and
01:38:00
condolences to the family.
01:38:03
>> Yeah, it was his his brother um Jackson
01:38:05
that I had on the podcast. He plays
01:38:07
rugby for Moana Pacifica now. Um yeah.
01:38:12
Um yeah, I think Connor was it was just
01:38:15
like an unexplained medical event. Like
01:38:17
it's still being um explored by
01:38:19
coroners, but I think it was like just a
01:38:21
like a heart attack overnight or
01:38:23
something. And it's just rocked the
01:38:25
family. Like you see the the ripple
01:38:26
effect it has. It's massive.
01:38:28
>> Yeah, absolutely massive. But
01:38:30
>> yeah, great guy.
01:38:32
>> Um three words that family or friends
01:38:34
would use to describe you?
01:38:38
probably encouraging, motivating, and
01:38:40
stubborn.
01:38:42
Yeah, that's what I would say.
01:38:44
>> But if it wasn't for the stubbornness,
01:38:46
you probably wouldn't be alive today,
01:38:47
right?
01:38:47
>> Yeah. I mean, that part of me
01:38:49
>> superpower.
01:38:50
>> Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. That
01:38:52
stubbornness has really helped me. But
01:38:53
it's also hindered me as well. It really
01:38:55
has. So, just kind of finding the happy
01:38:57
medium in there.
01:38:58
>> Yeah.
01:39:00
>> Do you like what you see when you look
01:39:01
in the mirror now?
01:39:01
>> I do, Dom. Yeah, I do, mate. It's taken
01:39:04
a while for sure, but I look at myself
01:39:05
in the mirror, look at my eyes and see
01:39:06
my soul and look at, you know, look what
01:39:09
I've achieved and what I've got in my
01:39:10
life and what I've overcome. For sure. I
01:39:12
I I do. I really love myself, man.
01:39:15
>> And when you have have a conversation
01:39:16
with you, you feel like you're looking
01:39:19
into the other person's soul. Definitely
01:39:21
feels that way.
01:39:22
>> Yeah.
01:39:22
>> When you speak with people, it's like a
01:39:24
real It's a real connection always.
01:39:26
>> Thank you. I mean, that's what I would
01:39:28
try to do and that's what I've learned
01:39:29
from Victor Frankle. M
01:39:30
>> I mean that's essentially what he's
01:39:31
trying to do with his work, what you
01:39:34
know, what he's left in this world. So
01:39:36
>> um yeah, I think I think as I said, you
01:39:39
know, with Connor, it's not about the
01:39:40
rugby or or Dom Harvey the podcast. It's
01:39:42
the person that's made him
01:39:44
>> through all his adversities, through all
01:39:46
his triumphs, what's made you you. Let's
01:39:48
talk about that.
01:39:50
>> Yeah.
01:39:51
>> And yeah, adversity is a part of a part
01:39:54
of life. Like suffering suffering is
01:39:55
part of life. Maybe not not to the
01:39:56
degree that you've had to go through,
01:39:58
but
01:39:58
>> No. No. But hardships are part of life.
01:40:00
>> Yeah.
01:40:00
>> And you know, we often make assumptions
01:40:02
about people with a lot of money.
01:40:03
They're still going through hard things.
01:40:05
>> It's just different from the other
01:40:07
person,
01:40:08
>> you know.
01:40:08
>> So, how do we overcome those hard
01:40:11
things? How do we overcome those hard
01:40:13
things? Have the conversations, get a
01:40:15
perspective, be patient,
01:40:17
>> you know, be persistent, persevere.
01:40:20
>> Yeah.
01:40:21
>> Well, Josh Coleman, this has been great.
01:40:23
Part two. Um I'm I'm so proud of you and
01:40:26
I'm proud to call you a mate.
01:40:28
>> Yeah. Thank you, Dom, and likewise. It's
01:40:29
It's just awesome to connect with you
01:40:31
again. It always is. And to have that
01:40:32
first conversation in your hotel room to
01:40:34
this awesome studio that you got, mate.
01:40:36
And what you're doing for other people.
01:40:38
Ah, what you're doing for other people.
01:40:40
I need to say this, too. I got a friend
01:40:41
who's in the transplant games. His
01:40:43
name's Connell Bean.
01:40:44
>> He started running after his kidney
01:40:46
transplant cuz he read your book. He
01:40:48
picked up your book about running and he
01:40:50
thought, "Wow, this Don Ivy's pretty
01:40:52
cool." He sent you a message, too. But I
01:40:54
want to give him a shout out because you
01:40:55
have helped him get back on his feet and
01:40:57
now he's um running at the World
01:40:59
Transplant Games and he's doing
01:41:01
phenomenal work. He's raising money for
01:41:02
Ranui House. He's set up a bit of a
01:41:04
fundraising event in Nelson. Great guy.
01:41:07
So,
01:41:08
>> [ __ ] that is so cool.
01:41:09
>> Reading your book, Dom.
01:41:11
>> Unbelievable. Someone's read it outside
01:41:13
of my own family.
01:41:15
>> Yeah. But thank you for doing that and I
01:41:16
know we appreciate that.
01:41:17
>> Yeah. Look, it if you've been listening
01:41:20
to this podcast and you're like, I want
01:41:22
to read a book, please um look for V
01:41:24
Victor Frankle's Man's Search for
01:41:26
Meaning, not Running a Love Story by Dom
01:41:28
Harvey. That would be my my parting
01:41:30
words. Hey, um Josh, this has been
01:41:32
great, mate. It's been so cool. And
01:41:34
thank you for um yeah, coming back on
01:41:37
the podcast. I really appreciate it.
01:41:39
>> No, thanks for asking me and and thanks
01:41:41
for having me back on, man. It's it's
01:41:42
always good to connect on. And just a
01:41:43
quick shout out, the World Transplant
01:41:45
Game team are looking for a small
01:41:46
sponsor to help with the uniforms. If
01:41:48
anyone out there is keen to get
01:41:49
involved, give me a message and we can
01:41:51
sort something out. So, thank you. Thank
01:41:52
you, Dom. It's good to see you, bro.
01:41:54
Really?
01:41:54
>> Yeah, you too, mate. Whenever I pick up
01:41:56
my phone and there's a voice note from
01:41:57
you, uh I always save it until I'm in a
01:41:59
nice quiet spot so I can I can listen to
01:42:01
it cuz I know it's going to be something
01:42:02
deep and profound
01:42:04
>> and something that's always going to
01:42:05
make me feel better.
01:42:06
>> I appreciate it, man.
01:42:07
>> Yeah. Love you, Joshy.
01:42:08
>> Keep breathing, brother. Love you, man.
