00:00:00
To be like a peak performer, do you need
00:00:02
a level of obsession?
00:00:03
>> I've never met an athlete who's at the
00:00:04
top of their game, who's not somewhat
00:00:06
obsessed, and it's it's their life. It's
00:00:08
their livelihood. Is there a such thing
00:00:09
as a healthy obsession? I don't know.
00:00:10
You could give two athletes the same
00:00:11
stimulus and one responds differently to
00:00:13
another. Really want to be good at
00:00:14
sport. You have to choose your parents
00:00:15
wisely. The best thing we can do is
00:00:17
teach the athletes to be world class at
00:00:20
things that require no talent. Going to
00:00:21
bed on time, not resetting your alarm,
00:00:24
getting up on time, doing your
00:00:25
stretches. If you want to do well in
00:00:26
anything in life, you can probably focus
00:00:28
on three things. But if you do four,
00:00:30
you're not going to do well at anything.
00:00:31
You always go for ups and downs. That
00:00:32
kind of mindset of not thinking it's
00:00:34
over until it's over. The best ones will
00:00:36
look in the mirror. The worst ones will
00:00:37
look through the window and then blame
00:00:38
other people. You can always do a little
00:00:40
bit more than you realize. Behave like
00:00:41
your son is watching. I wouldn't want to
00:00:42
be anyone else other than me. It's my
00:00:44
biggest achievement is having healthy
00:00:46
family.
00:00:46
>> What is one word that defines world
00:00:48
class athletes?
00:00:53
>> Oh, good. You're here. Come on. This is
00:00:55
the center of performance. Whenever
00:00:57
there's a top performance in New
00:00:58
Zealand, it all comes from here. That's
00:01:00
Lisa Carrington. She's been doing that
00:01:02
for days. That's the boys who got the
00:01:04
hollow one in To.
00:01:07
He did it again. Hey Finn, how's the
00:01:09
performance going?
00:01:10
>> Top tier.
00:01:11
>> Nice. This is our generate room. In
00:01:13
here, you'll find our top performers
00:01:14
helping Kiwis maximize their Kiwi Saver
00:01:16
investments. Get in here, Finn.
00:01:18
>> Maximize. Generate.
00:01:20
>> Putting performance first.
00:01:22
>> Dr. Dan PL, welcome to my podcast.
00:01:24
>> Not a pleasure to be here. It really is.
00:01:26
It's great.
00:01:27
>> I think the best way to start is um by
00:01:29
asking who is Dr. Dan PL.
00:01:31
>> Oh, well, yeah. Straight off the bat, I
00:01:33
guess, um first and foremost, I'm a dad
00:01:37
uh dad of two, 8-year-old and
00:01:39
six-year-old and a husband of as well
00:01:42
and um I guess entrepreneur,
00:01:45
businessman, but mainly in the sports
00:01:48
area. Um sports scientist and bit of an
00:01:51
athlete. So like to partake myself in
00:01:55
Iron Man and well used to Iron Man and
00:01:57
now getting into some other other
00:01:59
things. So yeah,
00:02:00
>> other things
00:02:01
>> like Hy Rocks. Yeah.
00:02:02
>> Oh yeah.
00:02:03
>> But I've worked with you know I've been
00:02:05
involved in in in like sports since I
00:02:08
was 9 years old and
00:02:10
>> worked with various Olympic athletes
00:02:11
around New Zealand. Um America's Cup
00:02:14
Emirates Team New Zealand.
00:02:16
>> Pretty pretty diverse.
00:02:17
>> Yeah. It was the Eric Murray, who's one
00:02:19
of New Zealand's greatest Olympians of
00:02:21
all time, who messaged me and said, "Oh,
00:02:22
you should get Dr. Dan on your podcast."
00:02:24
>> Um, and I I wasn't aware of uh who you
00:02:27
were or much about you until that point.
00:02:29
Um, but yeah, so let's compare your
00:02:31
answer about who Dr. Dan PL is compared
00:02:33
to AI.
00:02:34
>> Okay,
00:02:36
this is going to be interesting.
00:02:37
>> Dr. Yeah, see what you think about this.
00:02:39
Um, Dr. Dan PL is one of the most
00:02:41
influential figures in modern endurance
00:02:43
sport, especially in triathlon,
00:02:46
exercise, physiology, and high
00:02:48
performance coaching. He sits at a rare
00:02:50
intersection. Worldclass athlete plus
00:02:53
scientist plus coach plus systems
00:02:55
thinker.
00:02:56
>> There you go. Maybe I should have said
00:02:58
that.
00:02:59
>> It's not bad.
00:02:59
>> It's not bad. Not bad. Yeah, he's much
00:03:02
much better than me. So yeah, we'll get
00:03:04
into um you've worked with something
00:03:07
like um 30 like world champions,
00:03:10
Olympians, gold medalists
00:03:12
>> um including Yeah. Eric Murray and Dame
00:03:14
Lisa Carrington.
00:03:16
>> Yeah.
00:03:16
>> Um Eric Murray uh when I asked him about
00:03:18
you, he said, um Dr. Dan PL created some
00:03:22
hellish sessions just to try and break
00:03:24
me.
00:03:24
>> Yeah, I never did that. Not quite. I
00:03:26
tried my best.
00:03:28
>> And Dame Lisa, uh when I told her you're
00:03:31
coming on the podcast and did she have
00:03:32
any tea? she could spill. She said,
00:03:34
"Hey, Dom, this will be a great chat.
00:03:36
Ask him how his chin-ups are going these
00:03:38
days."
00:03:39
>> What is What's the in joke?
00:03:41
>> It's a good question. Yeah. Well, like
00:03:43
for the uh as a bit of background,
00:03:45
obviously, I did a lot of triathlon and
00:03:47
specifically iron man trifling when I
00:03:49
was through for throughout most of my
00:03:51
career and I wasn't that physically
00:03:52
strong, but I was pretty good at pretty
00:03:54
good at Iron Man trifling and you to the
00:03:56
point where I could barely do a chin-up.
00:03:58
So, um, she thought that was hilarious
00:04:00
and obviously still does, but I've I've
00:04:02
managed to change that around a little
00:04:03
bit in more recent years.
00:04:04
>> Oh, cuz you'd need to for high rocks.
00:04:06
>> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I was I mean,
00:04:08
I've gone from back when I was doing
00:04:10
Iron Man, I was 73 74 kilos and I'm now
00:04:13
82 83 kilos. So,
00:04:15
>> and how many can she do?
00:04:17
>> Uh, I wouldn't even be able to count. I
00:04:19
mean, she'd need weight to stop her. I
00:04:20
think loads.
00:04:23
>> Yeah. She she she went on to say um uh
00:04:26
pick his brains on training because he's
00:04:27
incredibly knowledgeable in that space.
00:04:29
Also, I always like to see what gadgets
00:04:31
he's using because he's always finding
00:04:32
new ways to recover and monitor
00:04:34
training. Um yeah, how closely did you
00:04:37
did you work with her and her coach
00:04:39
Gordon Walker?
00:04:39
>> Well, well, I mean, yeah, I would say I
00:04:41
worked close more closely with Gordy
00:04:43
than I did with with Lisa. I mean, I've
00:04:44
known Gordy for since forever and um
00:04:47
yeah and I I guess cuz before
00:04:50
before 2016 I was with the rowing in New
00:04:53
Zealand rowing. So 2012 uh London Rio
00:04:56
and then I kind of switched and then I
00:04:58
started helping and being um helping
00:05:00
Gordi more cuz really as a as an
00:05:03
exercise physiologist you you're more
00:05:06
talking with the coaches rather than the
00:05:08
athletes. you're kind of influencing how
00:05:10
the athletes you're monitoring the
00:05:11
athletes, looking at how they're
00:05:12
recovering, look at how the training is.
00:05:14
Um, but a lot of it a lot of it would be
00:05:16
with Gordy and you know Gordi's also a
00:05:18
good friend of mine. So half of it was
00:05:20
we just go out on bike rides and talk
00:05:22
about training and have some great ideas
00:05:24
and um I think that was some where the
00:05:27
best ideas come from often.
00:05:29
>> Yeah, Lisa Carrington the goat when it
00:05:31
comes to Olympians in New Zealand. like
00:05:33
it's hard to imagine there's going to be
00:05:35
>> anyone in my lifetime that's going to
00:05:37
beat what she's done. What's what sets
00:05:39
her apart? I mean, you got high
00:05:41
performers or the top 5% and she's at
00:05:43
the absolute peak of that. What makes
00:05:44
what makes her so much better than
00:05:46
anyone else from your observations?
00:05:47
>> Well, as I always tell most people who
00:05:49
want to be good at sport is that you
00:05:50
have to choose your parents wisely. I
00:05:52
mean I mean there's unfortunately there
00:05:55
is a lot of genetics involved in in how
00:05:57
good you are as as an athlete, but I
00:05:59
think with someone like Lisa is that
00:06:01
what what I always see is um the way
00:06:04
they train, they always train with a lot
00:06:05
of intent. So what I mean by that is
00:06:07
it's not necessarily they're always
00:06:08
training as hard as they possibly can.
00:06:10
But if if Gordi would say this is a
00:06:13
endurancebased paddle, it would be an
00:06:15
endurancebased paddle. If it's a
00:06:16
threshold based paddle, you know, high
00:06:18
intensity, she she would make sure it's
00:06:20
exactly as prescribed. But also, I mean,
00:06:23
in attention to detail. So, always
00:06:25
looking at those smaller parts that make
00:06:28
the bigger picture. So, um, you know,
00:06:30
like the going to bed on time, what's
00:06:32
happening with the technology, whether
00:06:33
the boat's right, the nutrition, all
00:06:35
those small little details. I've always
00:06:37
really finely tuned, you know, and I
00:06:40
often think about Eric and Hamish in
00:06:41
this regard.
00:06:43
>> Obviously, they were the the best pairs
00:06:45
probably the world's ever seen. Yeah.
00:06:47
>> And those two as a pair brought those
00:06:49
qualities together because I wouldn't
00:06:51
say Eric is that dialed in when it comes
00:06:54
to the details, you know, but Hamish
00:06:57
was. So, you know, and I would say that
00:06:59
um Hamish wasn't necessarily that great
00:07:02
of his intent with training, but Eric
00:07:04
was. And those two together kind of
00:07:05
brought the two that perfect match. And
00:07:07
obviously physological specimens as
00:07:09
well. Um but yeah, I think those those
00:07:12
are those are the main attributes. And I
00:07:14
was actually when I was riding last week
00:07:17
with Gordy, he says as a as a coach, the
00:07:20
best thing we can do is teach the
00:07:22
athletes to be world class at things
00:07:25
that require no talent. And I think you
00:07:28
know all those athletes are really good
00:07:29
at that as well which is the simple
00:07:31
things which is
00:07:33
>> going to bed on time, not resetting your
00:07:35
alarm,
00:07:36
>> getting up on time, doing your
00:07:37
stretches, doing your core work, doing
00:07:39
those small things all around the
00:07:41
training that make end up making the
00:07:43
bigger the bigger picture.
00:07:45
>> Yeah. And speaking of that, um Dame Lisa
00:07:47
sent me that message at 20 to 6 this
00:07:49
morning.
00:07:49
>> Well, there you go. She was probably
00:07:51
ready to go for a
00:07:52
>> Yeah, it's it's crazy that she's still
00:07:53
got the drive and discipline to do it
00:07:54
after achieving so much. like there's no
00:07:56
there there's nothing else for her to
00:07:57
prove.
00:07:58
>> It is. And and I think I often think
00:07:59
about that and I think it always with
00:08:02
lots of those athletes, it's it's just
00:08:04
so intrinsically motivated. It's about
00:08:06
them being better
00:08:08
>> for themselves and trying to achieve
00:08:10
what they can achieve. And I don't even
00:08:12
necessarily think they're that that into
00:08:14
like them. Well, obviously the medals
00:08:16
are important, but I think it's all
00:08:17
about that personal improvement and
00:08:18
continuously getting, you know, knowing
00:08:21
that they can do a little bit more and
00:08:22
get better. And I think that's what we
00:08:24
often see in those types of individuals.
00:08:26
>> Yeah. So inspiring. And um yeah, Gordon
00:08:28
Walker, what what's what's he doing now?
00:08:30
Cuz he finished up with um Dame Lisa
00:08:32
towards the end of uh 2025.
00:08:34
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, he'll have to you
00:08:36
have to get him on and he can talk to
00:08:37
you a bit more about that. But um yeah,
00:08:39
he he's still he's still going at the
00:08:41
moment. I don't think he's fully
00:08:42
finished. I think it's in that crossover
00:08:44
period, but I'm not.
00:08:45
>> Yeah.
00:08:46
>> Yeah. I'll have to get him on. Inspiring
00:08:48
guy. Yeah. He's done so much. It's one
00:08:50
of one of, you know, those incredible
00:08:52
sporting partnerships.
00:08:53
>> Yeah. And he's a he's been a great
00:08:54
mentor to me as well. I've learned so
00:08:57
much on the um on the coaching realm.
00:08:59
And you know, some of the chats that we
00:09:01
have when we go out on our rides,
00:09:03
they're they're amazing, you know, and
00:09:05
you learn so much. So, and I mean I
00:09:07
think I was when we were out riding last
00:09:09
week. So, we go to Puh Hoy and we do
00:09:10
like a little gravel loop on our bikes
00:09:12
and um and I moved to New Zealand in
00:09:16
2010 and that was the same basically to
00:09:19
come and do a PhD. So, I got a P PhD
00:09:21
scholarship with um High Performance
00:09:22
Sport New Zealand to do a PhD and at the
00:09:26
same time he'd just taken over that
00:09:28
kayak job. So yeah, long time ago we've
00:09:31
both been both been in the in the um in
00:09:33
the realm
00:09:34
>> of sports performance.
00:09:36
>> And and Eric Murray, what's he talking
00:09:38
about when he says Dr. Dan created some
00:09:40
hellish sessions just to try and break
00:09:42
me? What is a hellish session?
00:09:44
>> Well, so when it was when it was more
00:09:46
like in the his 2016 campaign, I was I
00:09:49
was kind of in control of his URG
00:09:51
sessions a lot. So we did we did some
00:09:54
pretty brutal brutal stuff on the URG. I
00:09:56
mean one that springs to mind was used
00:09:58
to do a session which was it sounds easy
00:10:00
but it was six by 1 minute with 6
00:10:02
minutes recovery and it was max you know
00:10:04
we get be seeing lactic acid levels of
00:10:06
in the 20s after it like really brutal
00:10:10
stuff. Um and also one time and to this
00:10:14
day it's probably one of the most
00:10:15
impressive feats I've seen from an
00:10:16
athlete. He did um four 2ks in under six
00:10:20
minutes back to back with four minutes
00:10:21
recovery. I mean, if if anyone knows
00:10:23
anything about rowing, most people would
00:10:25
like a great rower would give their
00:10:28
bottom, you know, give their high legs
00:10:30
to break six minutes once, you know, he
00:10:32
did it three he did it four times in one
00:10:34
session.
00:10:35
>> Most mortals would be vomiting, right?
00:10:37
>> Yeah. Well, I couldn't do it for one and
00:10:39
most most rowers can't do it for one.
00:10:41
So, um but yeah, he's um we had some
00:10:43
real big sessions on the eggs, which was
00:10:46
which is great because in that like
00:10:47
during that time, Hamish would like
00:10:49
cycling and Eric didn't really like
00:10:51
cycling. So sometimes Hamish would go
00:10:52
out and do a bit of riding and Eric
00:10:54
could come in and do some more um on the
00:10:56
egg. I mean Hamish did stuff on the egg
00:10:58
as well, but um yeah, there was uh we
00:11:01
definitely got there's no point hanging
00:11:04
around if you're on the egg. We made we
00:11:05
had some pretty spicy sessions. So
00:11:07
>> Wow.
00:11:07
>> And did you work very closely with their
00:11:09
coach Dick Tonx?
00:11:11
>> Not so so not so much with Dick. I mean
00:11:15
because in that early stage I'd only
00:11:17
really just come in. So I came into
00:11:19
rowing New Zealand at the end of 2011.
00:11:21
So it was just before the Olympics. So I
00:11:23
I didn't really have that much to do
00:11:25
with him, but after 2012 they moved over
00:11:27
to Donaldson and that's when I became a
00:11:29
little bit more more involved.
00:11:31
>> Interesting guy. I'm sure you've heard
00:11:32
some stories about him.
00:11:33
>> Yeah, definitely.
00:11:34
>> Um hey, this is going to be a great
00:11:36
chat. 10 minutes in and we've already
00:11:38
dropped some um heavyweight names. It's
00:11:40
been awesome. Um just one quick random
00:11:43
question. So, um, my podcast is
00:11:45
sponsored by the Generate Kiwi Saver
00:11:46
scheme, who also, uh, sponsor Dame Lisa
00:11:49
Carrington. Um, they're obsessed with
00:11:51
performance. So, what is something in
00:11:53
your life that you've obsessed over
00:11:55
getting better at and why did it matter
00:11:56
so much to you?
00:11:58
>> The, um, cuz that I saw the advert to
00:12:00
that is it's actually an AUT lab, isn't
00:12:02
it? That's in That's in That's in our
00:12:04
lab. Yeah, that's
00:12:05
>> rebranded as the generate performance. I
00:12:08
recognize that looks surprisingly
00:12:10
familiar. Um but but what things have I
00:12:14
obsessed over? Um I mean I think I've
00:12:18
obsessed over training generally like
00:12:21
the adaptation. I've always been very
00:12:24
obsessed by why people some people you
00:12:27
could give an athlete two athletes the
00:12:29
same stimulus and one responds
00:12:30
differently to another. And I think I
00:12:32
mean that was kind of what most of my
00:12:33
research was in in terms of my PhD. So,
00:12:36
um, that's something that I've always
00:12:38
been quite obsessed with from a very
00:12:40
from a very early age.
00:12:42
>> And what's personally, what's your
00:12:44
relationship like with the word
00:12:45
obsession? Because I asked that question
00:12:46
to some podcast get some podcast guests
00:12:48
feel uncomfortable with that question
00:12:49
because they say the the word obsessed
00:12:51
or obsession has some negative
00:12:54
connotations. But from your experience,
00:12:56
like to be to be like a peak performer,
00:12:59
do you need a level of obsession?
00:13:02
>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I I don't think
00:13:04
I've ever met a an epic performer who's
00:13:07
not somewhat obsessed with their pursuit
00:13:09
of what they're trying to get to.
00:13:11
>> Um I I really don't think it's possible,
00:13:14
but I I mean it's obsessions is I mean
00:13:17
is there such thing as a healthy
00:13:18
obsession? I don't know. Maybe.
00:13:21
>> So, but I would like to think it's a
00:13:23
healthier obsession.
00:13:25
But like me, I do think that often you
00:13:28
those those top performers can somewhat
00:13:30
switch off when it when when they need
00:13:32
to and then it's on and it's off. You
00:13:33
know, they really but there's always in
00:13:35
the bid in the back of the mind where
00:13:36
you always have to be on. And for an
00:13:38
elite performer, unfortunately,
00:13:41
that is the way that is the life that
00:13:42
they lead. And that's because it comes
00:13:45
down to nutrition, it comes down to
00:13:46
sleep, it comes down to the training.
00:13:47
So, you can somewhat never be off ever
00:13:50
really
00:13:51
>> and it's quite hard.
00:13:52
>> Yeah. I suppose it's kind of a selfish
00:13:54
pursuit, but it's only for a a snapshot
00:13:55
of your life, really, isn't it? Like a
00:13:56
period.
00:13:57
>> Yeah, exactly. I mean, you got
00:13:58
>> Unless you're like you and you're still
00:13:59
going in your middle age.
00:14:01
>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not a peak
00:14:02
performer anymore, but um the Yeah, I
00:14:05
think that that level of obsession is
00:14:07
and it is for that period of time for
00:14:09
sure. I mean, it's but it is definitely
00:14:11
required. And I don't I've never met an
00:14:14
athlete who's at the top of their game,
00:14:16
who's not somewhat obsessed, and it's
00:14:18
it's their life, it's their livelihood,
00:14:20
and it's all they all they know. But uh
00:14:22
but I don't think they reg change it for
00:14:24
any reason. It's just part of what they
00:14:27
do, right?
00:14:28
>> Yeah. Part of their DNA.
00:14:29
>> Yeah. And they and they enjoy it and and
00:14:31
they live it. So,
00:14:32
>> and your new um uh maybe not an
00:14:35
obsession, but um a a bizarre hobby is
00:14:37
Hyrox, which you mentioned before. So,
00:14:39
for the the uninitiated, what is what is
00:14:41
Hyrox? How can you describe it?
00:14:43
>> Yeah. So, Hyrox is I mean, I guess
00:14:46
people do liken it to CrossFit, but it's
00:14:48
not like CrossFit at all. Um it's a more
00:14:50
endurancebased um sport with exercise
00:14:54
stations. So it involves 1 km runs
00:14:57
followed by an exercise station. So
00:14:59
it'll be a 1 km run and then a ski 1 km
00:15:02
run then 50 m of sled push 1 km run um
00:15:05
sled pull and then basically 1 km run
00:15:07
burpee broad jumps
00:15:10
rowing farmer's carry walking lunges and
00:15:13
then and then wall balls. Yeah.
00:15:15
>> Yeah. Wool balls. Um, yeah.
00:15:19
>> Explain what that is. It's a medicine
00:15:20
medicine ball.
00:15:21
>> Yeah, it's like it's not um Yeah, it's
00:15:23
called a wall ball. So, the med it's
00:15:25
slightly different to a medicine ball.
00:15:26
So, it's it's a little bit bigger, but
00:15:27
they're they're of particular weight.
00:15:29
So, you have different weights and
00:15:31
there's different weights in high rocks.
00:15:32
So, you have four four kilos for the
00:15:35
open women, six um I think it's 4 kilos.
00:15:39
Yeah. And then there's six kilos for the
00:15:42
open men and pro women. And then the pro
00:15:44
men have a 9 kilo ball and you've got to
00:15:47
throw that ball up to a target that's
00:15:49
300 meters above the ground 100 times,
00:15:51
but it has to be from you have to do a
00:15:53
full squat each time. So your hip has to
00:15:56
go below your knee angle every every
00:15:58
time you go down and then you have to
00:15:59
throw it up and it's and it's the last
00:16:01
event and it's really hard. I can
00:16:03
especially with 9 kilos. I can I can
00:16:05
assure you of that espec es especially
00:16:07
someone who's done triathlon all their
00:16:09
life and um
00:16:10
>> has limited mobility in the upper
00:16:13
thoracic and and things like that but
00:16:15
it's uh
00:16:16
>> yeah it's good I mean I did triathlon
00:16:18
since I was nine and I kind of started
00:16:21
off in like the Olympic programs and
00:16:23
then I moved into more of the longer
00:16:25
distance but it's just very very
00:16:27
timeconuming and so in 2022 I I stopped
00:16:32
competing and I took And then then I
00:16:35
took then sort of what now and I kind of
00:16:37
did almost bodybuilding for a little bit
00:16:38
and you know just got wanted to get
00:16:40
bigger and stronger. But I I really
00:16:42
missed that endurance aspect and then
00:16:44
and hires it gave this nice blend of
00:16:47
strength and endurance and it also it
00:16:51
took out those really long training days
00:16:53
because if you're doing an Iron Man
00:16:54
you've got to do like sometimes
00:16:56
sometimes if you're training properly
00:16:58
you can be gone at 6:00 in the morning
00:17:00
and get back at 1:00 in the afternoon.
00:17:02
you know, 5 hour rides, 1 hour run. It's
00:17:05
just really long when you got a had a
00:17:07
young family. So, it's especially now as
00:17:09
they get older and there's a lot of
00:17:10
activities, it's becomes a little bit
00:17:12
easier to do something that's a bit
00:17:13
shorter.
00:17:14
>> Yeah, Iron Man's crazy. I've always been
00:17:16
impressed with um you know, the Cameron
00:17:18
Browns of the world. Um but I'm even
00:17:20
more impressed, I think, by people that
00:17:22
have, you know, jobs and families and
00:17:24
still manage to to get it done outside
00:17:27
of the regular commitments. And and more
00:17:28
than that is that typically all these
00:17:30
all the ones who have got jobs, they're
00:17:32
not small jobs. Lots of the lots of the
00:17:34
athletes doing IMAS are all CEOs or they
00:17:37
got really big important jobs and they
00:17:39
still managed to have a family and it's
00:17:41
quite impressive.
00:17:42
>> Yeah.
00:17:43
>> So, um do you wear a shirt when you do
00:17:44
high rocks? No,
00:17:45
>> of course not.
00:17:48
>> I've seen um cuz I first heard about it
00:17:50
maybe a year ago, 18 months ago. So, I
00:17:51
looked I saw some videos on Tik Tok and
00:17:53
it looked like an audition for Love
00:17:54
Island or something. just buff people
00:17:57
just running around exercising with
00:17:58
their shirts off.
00:17:59
>> Yeah. I'm not sure what the I'm not sure
00:18:00
what the vibe is with the with the shirt
00:18:02
off, but I've got to be part of the
00:18:04
crowd. So,
00:18:05
>> can can anyone do it? Like, so I I run
00:18:08
marathons and you see a lot of people at
00:18:09
at the start line of a marathon and it's
00:18:11
super inspiring. Um there's a lot of
00:18:13
people that maybe a year earlier were on
00:18:14
the couch and now they're having a crack
00:18:16
at running 42 km. The the barrier for
00:18:18
entry for High Rock seems a little bit
00:18:20
tougher to me.
00:18:20
>> No, I don't think so. I think it's quite
00:18:22
low. I mean the the whole thing around
00:18:24
the the high rocks is that the movements
00:18:27
are quite simple. The the unlike
00:18:30
CrossFit for example, it has very
00:18:31
complex movements. Some like Olympic
00:18:33
lifts and I can't do those and most
00:18:35
people can't. So I think the barrier to
00:18:37
entry is quite low because as long as
00:18:38
you can learn some of the simple simple
00:18:40
movements and they are reasonably simple
00:18:41
pushing a sled, pulling a sled.
00:18:44
>> I mean there's even lots of the parents
00:18:47
at my kids schools are doing hierros.
00:18:50
You know I'll go there and they'll start
00:18:50
talking to me about hierros. I can't say
00:18:52
that happened that much when I did Iron
00:18:53
Man. There weren't many people doing an
00:18:55
Iron Man at the school, but there's, you
00:18:56
know, at least three or four or five
00:18:58
people who I know are interested in
00:19:00
highlights. I think it's um I think it
00:19:02
is quite easy.
00:19:03
>> Oh, that's interesting. Popular.
00:19:04
>> Yeah, maybe it's my own internal
00:19:06
perception and I just feel intimidated
00:19:07
because you got all these gloriously hot
00:19:09
people half.
00:19:11
>> I think it's anticipated that 1.6 6
00:19:13
million people will do high rocks 2026
00:19:17
>> compared to like 300,000 people will do
00:19:20
probably long course triathlon.
00:19:21
>> What do you reckon? Is it going to last?
00:19:22
Is it going to be a fed?
00:19:25
>> You would have seen so many things come
00:19:26
and go, right?
00:19:27
>> Yeah. Who knows? I mean they they are
00:19:29
having a big push because they want to
00:19:30
get into the 2032 Olympics.
00:19:32
>> Wow.
00:19:33
>> Yeah. So if that happens it's a whole
00:19:35
different story. Obviously it becomes a
00:19:37
federation becomes a different sport. It
00:19:38
won't be called hier rocks, but if that
00:19:40
happens, then it's it will stick around
00:19:42
and then you'll get um you'll see the
00:19:46
standard really jump up because you'll
00:19:47
get some really handy.
00:19:49
>> It's I mean the standard's already
00:19:50
jumped quite high because it's just been
00:19:51
so popular, but I think it'll get even
00:19:53
more popular and then you'll see the
00:19:55
standard jump even higher. So,
00:19:56
>> well, if they can make break dancing an
00:19:58
Olympic sport.
00:19:59
>> Yeah, exactly. And I heard there some
00:20:01
kind of ninja warrior was going to be in
00:20:03
LA Olympics. So,
00:20:04
>> yeah, who knows? Who knows? And I think
00:20:07
like for 20 2032 which will be in
00:20:09
Brisbane, it's a very popular hybrid
00:20:12
that kind of hybrid functional fitness
00:20:13
is very popular with Australians. So
00:20:16
>> I think it does stand a reasonable
00:20:17
chance. So
00:20:20
>> how do you feel about aging? You you're
00:20:21
considered a veteran now, are
00:20:22
>> you?
00:20:23
>> Yeah. How do you feel about aging in
00:20:25
terms of um you know your performance?
00:20:27
Like are you are you seeing your you
00:20:29
know your times and your efforts
00:20:30
decrease or not yet?
00:20:31
>> Not yet. Not yet. Yeah.
00:20:33
>> Will you be okay with that when that
00:20:34
happens? No, I don't think anyone would
00:20:36
be
00:20:37
>> I mean I think it's just something
00:20:39
that's something you have to accept,
00:20:40
isn't it? I mean, but fortunately, I
00:20:41
haven't seen that
00:20:42
>> yet. But Ic
00:20:44
>> it's not um
00:20:46
Yeah. I mean, no one wants that to
00:20:48
happen. I mean, my my dad's like um my
00:20:50
dad's 73 and he's as fit as a fiddle.
00:20:53
Like he'll ride 100k on his bike and no
00:20:55
motor obviously. He will not he will not
00:20:58
take a battery on his bike. He's very
00:21:00
stubborn. But um but like two two years
00:21:03
ago um was it two years ago we all went
00:21:06
to the Italian Alps and he he cycled
00:21:08
over the Stelvio. Have you heard the
00:21:10
Stelvio climb?
00:21:10
>> Yeah.
00:21:11
>> Yeah. So he cycled over the Selvio down
00:21:12
the other side and back over it at 71.
00:21:14
>> Wow.
00:21:15
>> With no no aid. So you know I think I
00:21:19
really believe like use it or lose it.
00:21:21
>> Yeah. 100%.
00:21:22
>> Yeah. If you if you the moment you stop
00:21:24
then you it all becomes worse. And and
00:21:27
you know, part of my reason for shifting
00:21:30
from Iron Man to to high rocks was
00:21:33
because of aging because I didn't I
00:21:35
didn't I don't feel that Iron Man's a
00:21:37
great sport to do as you get really as
00:21:40
you get as you age. I think having that
00:21:42
a bit more muscle muscle mass, a bit
00:21:44
more size, a bit more strength, and that
00:21:46
aerobic fitness is is kind of the
00:21:48
perfect combination of healthy aging,
00:21:51
you know, high V2 max, good muscle size,
00:21:54
good strength, and I felt that was quite
00:21:55
important. So it it was it really was a
00:21:57
bit of a driving factor behind the
00:21:59
change anyway because I'm I am very
00:22:00
conscious about it. So um yeah.
00:22:03
>> Oh same here. I I've become mild I'm 53
00:22:06
now so I've become mildly obsessed with
00:22:08
it and I read the Dr. Peter Artier book
00:22:10
outlive which is about basically sort of
00:22:12
reverse engineering aging and um
00:22:14
>> yeah I'm huge on it now.
00:22:15
>> The five horsemen.
00:22:16
>> Yeah actually um my mom is similar to
00:22:19
your dad like she's she's 74 75. I took
00:22:22
her to Paris last year. We ran the
00:22:24
marathon with her. Um, I was pacing her
00:22:26
through it at hour. I was like, "Hey,
00:22:28
mom, we're going to need to, you know,
00:22:30
drop the walk brakes if you want to
00:22:31
break 5 hours." And she was like, "Oh,
00:22:33
if I can't break 5 hours, I'm going to
00:22:35
give up. It's humiliating."
00:22:37
>> I'm like, "Look, you're in your mid70s.
00:22:39
You're still running a [ __ ]
00:22:40
marathon."
00:22:40
>> Yeah.
00:22:41
>> Yeah. Yeah. When the World Championships
00:22:43
was in Talpo, the World 70.3
00:22:45
Championships was in Talpo last year and
00:22:47
my dad did that. Yeah. I've got a great
00:22:49
video cuz I had my son on the front of
00:22:52
the bike and we're, you know, so he's
00:22:53
riding along. We're going along the
00:22:54
course of my dad's riding. My son goes
00:22:56
to me. He goes, "Granddad, granddad." I
00:22:58
made granddad's like, he goes,
00:22:59
"Granddad." And he goes, "Why is
00:23:01
everyone going past you?"
00:23:06
>> Poor kids. Um, yeah. So, when was you
00:23:09
did the Iron Man, you got the age group
00:23:10
uh world record? Um, yeah. What year was
00:23:13
this? 2022.
00:23:15
>> Yeah, that was 2022 for the the fastest
00:23:18
time. And then the age group record for
00:23:20
Kona was in 2018, which so the one that
00:23:23
2022 one's been broken since. Many I
00:23:25
think a few people have broken it since,
00:23:27
but the 2018 one still stands.
00:23:29
>> So you were the first ever amateur to
00:23:31
break 8 hours in an iron man, which is
00:23:34
incredible. So for anyone that doesn't
00:23:35
know, an iron man is what?
00:23:37
>> Uh
00:23:37
>> 3.8 swim.
00:23:38
>> 3.8 swim, 180k bike, and a marathon run.
00:23:42
>> Yeah. It's a big shift.
00:23:43
>> So the swim is about an hour for you.
00:23:46
>> Yeah. Cuz that's that's your it's your
00:23:48
week discipline.
00:23:48
>> Yeah. It's about 50 minutes to 50
00:23:50
minutes is what it takes me.
00:23:51
>> And then then on on the bike you're
00:23:52
doing like 40 km an hour.
00:23:54
>> Y
00:23:55
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get off
00:23:56
the bike and you're running a marathon
00:23:57
in
00:23:58
>> 245 to 250 was my best. Yeah. So I think
00:24:01
my best was like
00:24:03
>> 4 430 is 40 km an hour. My best is a 420
00:24:06
on the bike.
00:24:08
>> Yeah.
00:24:09
>> Incredible. And that marathon is um I I
00:24:11
spent like maybe 5 years like dedicated
00:24:14
training in order to break three hours.
00:24:16
I did a 257 and you were routinely doing
00:24:18
that after the big swim in the big bike.
00:24:20
>> Yeah. It's funny. I I was never I was as
00:24:23
I was saying off air before I was I
00:24:25
wasn't that I'm never I wasn't that
00:24:26
great at running but for some reason the
00:24:29
Iron Man running just clicked with me
00:24:31
and I was much I was much better. Like
00:24:33
when I did Olympic distance my running
00:24:34
was always my weakest but I switched to
00:24:36
Iron Man and it became my strength. It's
00:24:39
a much better much better position to be
00:24:41
in. I feel like now I always had this
00:24:43
when I did Iron Man, I was always like a
00:24:45
little bit worse on the swim. I wasn't a
00:24:47
bad swimmer. It was probably my worst,
00:24:48
but I could always depend on myself on
00:24:50
the run to pick off some places. Whereas
00:24:52
now when I do high rocks, I'm get to the
00:24:55
wall balls and I'm thinking, "Oh my god,
00:24:56
this now people can't run field."
00:25:00
But it's just um doing that for eight
00:25:02
hours. Uh you're just going you're going
00:25:04
balls to the wall for eight hours,
00:25:05
aren't you? You're not [ __ ] around at
00:25:07
all. You're not you'll be surprised that
00:25:09
you because you can't you can't go balls
00:25:10
to the wall for eight hours. You have to
00:25:12
I mean that's the thing you have to be
00:25:14
able to pace yourself and you have to go
00:25:16
at the correct intensity. So it's
00:25:18
surprisingly not that difficult until
00:25:20
the end. So like an iron man it actually
00:25:23
feels really easy until about you know
00:25:26
20 15 you know 15 20k to go on the run.
00:25:29
it starts getting that's when it starts
00:25:31
getting really hard. But you never
00:25:33
you're never really at that higher
00:25:35
intensity. You know, you kind of always
00:25:37
having to because it's a very long days.
00:25:39
You know, you're eating, you're taking
00:25:40
your fuel in, you're trying to keep your
00:25:42
intensity back. I'll be I would sit on a
00:25:45
bike at about 130 to 140 heart rate, for
00:25:48
example, and my, you know, my max heart
00:25:50
rate's 170 175. So, I was always, but
00:25:54
you just become very efficient and very
00:25:56
aerobically fit. So you can even at 130
00:25:59
heart heart rate I could produce you
00:26:00
know 270 watts on the bike you know so
00:26:03
that's would be equivalent of me going
00:26:05
40 km an hour. So it's all about
00:26:07
efficiency and doing things um you know
00:26:10
I always say iron man is not about going
00:26:12
fast it's about doing things as easily
00:26:14
as you possibly can. So you got to go
00:26:15
fast. You got to fast but easily. That's
00:26:18
that's the trick.
00:26:19
>> That makes that makes no sense. Like for
00:26:21
anyone that's that's got a bike that's
00:26:22
got a speedo on 40ks an hour is is
00:26:24
gunning it. And then um to do you like
00:26:28
4minute or sub4minute ks for a marathon
00:26:30
after doing all that other stuff. It's
00:26:32
flying like it's um you you're
00:26:34
downplaying it. You're making it sound
00:26:36
very very easy and a
00:26:38
>> I mean it's not it's not No, it's not
00:26:39
it's definitely not easy. But I've done
00:26:41
I did triathon since I was nine as well.
00:26:43
So I had a lot of training experience
00:26:45
and a lot of training age. And
00:26:48
triathlon is one of those sports that um
00:26:52
it's very trainable.
00:26:53
>> If you do the right, if you do the years
00:26:55
and you do the consistency and you
00:26:57
train,
00:26:58
>> you'll you'll get there eventually.
00:27:01
>> Yeah. I think I always have I always say
00:27:03
that most athletes that overestimate
00:27:04
what they can do in the short term and
00:27:06
underestimate what they can do in the
00:27:07
long term.
00:27:08
>> And just by being just by training
00:27:11
consistently, you you can you can do
00:27:13
some pretty amazing things.
00:27:14
>> It's funny. That's actually a Steve Jobs
00:27:16
quote. Steve Jobs from Apple. Not
00:27:18
talking about sport, but uh the quote is
00:27:19
something like most people um
00:27:20
overestimate what they can do in a year
00:27:22
and underestimate what they can do in
00:27:23
10.
00:27:24
>> Yeah. It's the same for sport. Same in
00:27:25
training.
00:27:26
>> Yeah.
00:27:28
>> Another one of the athletes. Oh. Oh, you
00:27:30
mentioned at the start um the high
00:27:32
performers, you know, choose your
00:27:33
parents wisely. Yeah. Have you got good
00:27:34
jeans? Was your dad competitive?
00:27:36
>> My dad was competitive. Yeah. He wasn't
00:27:38
brilliant, but he was a he was an
00:27:39
athlete. So there's a bit of a theory
00:27:41
like epigenetics that you you kind of
00:27:43
pass on the training that you do goes
00:27:45
into your children. And so I'm hoping
00:27:46
that my son's going to be a bit of a
00:27:48
weapon, you know, cuz if my dad goes
00:27:50
into me, then I train and then go to him
00:27:51
and maybe and maybe my daughter as well.
00:27:53
We'll see. She's not showing the signs
00:27:55
of being that competitive yet, but my
00:27:56
son's pretty competitive.
00:27:58
>> How will you be devastated if your kids
00:28:00
choose to be academics?
00:28:02
>> No. I'm an academic, so true, true,
00:28:05
true. No, non-sporty academics.
00:28:08
>> No, no. They'll be what they'll be,
00:28:10
won't they?
00:28:10
>> Um, hey, another um athlete you've
00:28:12
trained that um I mean Iron Man fans
00:28:15
listening to this will know this name,
00:28:16
but others may not. Chelsea Sedara.
00:28:18
>> Yes.
00:28:18
>> Who won um an Iron Man in Coner in 2022.
00:28:22
First American, I think, to do so in
00:28:23
like 25 years. And that was 18 months
00:28:25
after having a baby.
00:28:27
>> Yeah.
00:28:27
>> Um Yeah. So, how did that work? Anyone
00:28:30
that's listening to this or watching
00:28:31
this that has, you know, like a baby or
00:28:33
a toddler in the house, they'll wonder
00:28:35
how this is even possible. like how did
00:28:37
that training cycle work? So, she
00:28:39
obviously she was obviously good and
00:28:41
maybe had muscle memory when you started
00:28:42
training with her.
00:28:43
>> Yeah, she did. She she's from a very
00:28:44
strong running background. Um, and she
00:28:46
done she started doing triathlon and she
00:28:48
obviously was pretty good at triathlon
00:28:50
straight away. I think she came fifth in
00:28:52
the world half iron man champs that year
00:28:54
and she came to me looking for a new
00:28:56
coach when she was two weeks pregnant.
00:28:59
So, um, so obviously we had to go
00:29:01
through the whole having the baby and
00:29:03
then the return. But honestly,
00:29:05
>> oh, so you coached her through her
00:29:07
pregnancy.
00:29:08
>> Yeah.
00:29:08
>> Yeah.
00:29:09
>> How how did that look in terms of the
00:29:11
log you give her or did she sort of
00:29:14
>> did tell you what she was capable of in
00:29:16
terms of
00:29:16
>> Yeah. It was it very it kind of merged
00:29:18
into quite seamlessly into at the start
00:29:22
I was giving her quite good a guided
00:29:26
regimented program and she would follow
00:29:28
that but as time went on you know she
00:29:31
would have to miss she had a lot of
00:29:32
morning sickness so we'd communicate
00:29:33
we'd swap things around and we get
00:29:34
through that sort of sort of um stages
00:29:37
but then eventually obviously she got
00:29:40
bigger and bigger and closer to giving
00:29:41
birth she she started doing you know
00:29:44
just what she can which might be walking
00:29:45
a bit of swimming and then and then
00:29:47
slowly um came back came back basically.
00:29:51
>> So,
00:29:51
>> how much fitness did she lose?
00:29:53
>> Um not not so much. Not I mean we not
00:29:58
not I mean how much fitness is he using
00:30:00
the actual terms of trying to put some
00:30:02
statistics around it. I couldn't really
00:30:04
say but but it didn't take her that long
00:30:06
to be competitive again. you know, 3
00:30:08
months later she was at the start line
00:30:10
of a reason a reasonably big race and
00:30:12
then it was a year later that she that
00:30:14
she then won a Kona for the first time.
00:30:16
So I mean that was a it was a bit of bit
00:30:18
of a surprise to both of us to be honest
00:30:20
>> really.
00:30:20
>> Yeah. We did we didn't expect it. I
00:30:22
don't think anyone expected it.
00:30:24
>> So and so um once once the baby's been
00:30:27
born I suppose that's when the real
00:30:28
training sort of starts again to prepare
00:30:30
for this event. How like how I mean how
00:30:33
does that look in real terms in terms of
00:30:35
you know sleep deprivation
00:30:37
um you know breastfeeding?
00:30:39
>> Yeah. Well tiredness.
00:30:41
>> Yeah. I mean it was uh we had to do it
00:30:43
in a very slow gradual process and and
00:30:46
eventually she was having a little bit
00:30:47
of trouble with breastfeeding as well.
00:30:48
So she she actually she had to she was
00:30:51
actually forced to stop. So um but you
00:30:53
know then and then my husband's
00:30:55
obviously highly involved with helping
00:30:57
and you know and gradually you just you
00:30:59
have to be very you have to do less and
00:31:01
less you can't do very much training at
00:31:02
the start but you have to be very
00:31:04
systematic in the training that you do
00:31:05
do and then over time you're just
00:31:07
building on that and building on that
00:31:08
and eventually we're back to back to
00:31:11
full full training. Um, but like the
00:31:13
breastfeeding was really hard because
00:31:15
it's it's just an energy.
00:31:17
>> It it literally drains nutrients, right?
00:31:19
And when you're an athlete and you're
00:31:20
trying to train, that's taking a lot of
00:31:23
nutrients and the the the breastfeeding
00:31:24
is also taking a lot of nutrients.
00:31:26
That's that's really hard for for an
00:31:27
athlete and that was kind of quite
00:31:29
tricky.
00:31:30
>> So, we had to really reduce the loads
00:31:32
during during that period. But the
00:31:33
husband was was great in helping at the
00:31:36
nighttime and you know, they were a
00:31:38
team, right? And I don't think I think I
00:31:39
think one thing that I've always found
00:31:41
with elite athletes or any athlete is
00:31:43
there's not there's always a significant
00:31:45
other who's fundamental in that one
00:31:47
person achieving their goals.
00:31:49
>> I I can think of many examples like
00:31:51
that. There's just not one.
00:31:52
>> Yeah. I I'm just when I was researching
00:31:54
for this uh chat today, uh I was
00:31:56
intrigued by that because um my
00:31:58
partner's girlfriend had a baby 8 months
00:32:00
ago and some days she's on the phone
00:32:02
just like crying because it feels like
00:32:04
her world's crashing down. So I can't
00:32:06
imagine like training for an Iron Man
00:32:08
with everything else that's going on.
00:32:09
It's it's remarkable, eh?
00:32:11
>> Yeah. Yeah, she did amazing. And um
00:32:13
yeah, so she she got um
00:32:16
>> and and I don't think I don't think she
00:32:17
expected to win. We didn't expect to win
00:32:19
and it changed it changed her life. So
00:32:21
unfortunately I'm not coaching her now,
00:32:22
but it was some good successes, that's
00:32:24
for sure.
00:32:25
>> Do you deal with weekend warriors or
00:32:27
just pros and elites?
00:32:28
>> No, I do. I have a lot of weekend
00:32:29
warriors. Yeah. So I have a I have a
00:32:32
triathlon coaching company and there I
00:32:34
deal with weekend warriors. Yeah. Most
00:32:37
of them are like I said they're mostly
00:32:38
highlevel CEOs though who are just real
00:32:41
gogetters driven.
00:32:42
>> Yeah. Super driven. Yeah. And they're
00:32:43
all around the world. Morocco,
00:32:46
>> US, um you name it, Germany, they're all
00:32:49
around. So very international.
00:32:51
>> A couple of questions in relations to um
00:32:53
in relation to weekend warriors. Um
00:32:55
yeah. What are your thoughts on Strava?
00:32:58
What are your thoughts on Strava?
00:33:01
>> Um, it's a great app for getting
00:33:04
competitive.
00:33:05
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:06
>> Do do you like a bit of Strava?
00:33:07
>> I I Yeah, I I love it, but I'm not um
00:33:10
sort of competitive at all. I've got,
00:33:11
you know, and I can understand there's
00:33:13
that ego aspect which um is problematic
00:33:16
for some people.
00:33:16
>> Yeah, I think I think it it can be a
00:33:18
nightmare because if you're chasing
00:33:19
those segments all the time. I mean, I'm
00:33:21
on Straa, but I don't really I don't
00:33:24
really use it. you know, my my data goes
00:33:27
in there, but I don't I don't really
00:33:28
follow and and what's what's going on on
00:33:30
there. But a great app for keeps people
00:33:32
motivated, right? That's that's the main
00:33:34
thing. Consist consistency is
00:33:36
everything. If you can keep on going, if
00:33:38
it gets you out the door, brilliant.
00:33:40
>> I mean, if I if I get a notification on
00:33:42
my phone advising me that I've become a
00:33:44
local legend, it feels good.
00:33:46
>> Yeah. Because you've done the hill so
00:33:48
many times. Yeah. Exactly.
00:33:50
>> Yeah. Um
00:33:51
>> even better if you get a segment,
00:33:52
though.
00:33:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. Have you got any segments? I
00:33:55
don't know if I've got a segment yet.
00:33:56
Interesting. I have to try and get a
00:33:58
segment. Do you have to be fast to get
00:33:59
the segment? Pretty fast. Okay. Okay.
00:34:01
>> I think you can get segments for that
00:34:03
period. I mean, my dad my dad's always
00:34:05
trying to get segments in his age group.
00:34:06
I think if you get like the advanced,
00:34:08
like the paid version, it tells you in
00:34:10
your age group. So, you can get like,
00:34:12
you know, 70 plus. You get your 50 plus.
00:34:15
You get your 50 plus segment over here.
00:34:17
And
00:34:18
>> so, I need to pay to pay this up.
00:34:20
>> You need to pay to get your age rank
00:34:22
segment.
00:34:23
>> Oh, that seems hollow. Um, and what do
00:34:25
you what do you um think about
00:34:27
unqualified um Tik Tok and Instagram
00:34:29
influencers giving advice?
00:34:31
>> What do you what do you does that does
00:34:33
that make you pull your hair out? Does
00:34:34
it draw?
00:34:34
>> It does. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.
00:34:36
Yeah, it I mean I think the social media
00:34:40
is a it's a real black box, isn't it? In
00:34:43
terms of
00:34:45
how you get to the position to give the
00:34:48
information because like it doesn't seem
00:34:50
to be it can be anyone, right? So I
00:34:53
think I think you got especially in the
00:34:55
world we live in today it's a lot of
00:34:57
information out there and unfortunately
00:35:01
>> number of followers has more clout than
00:35:04
credentials now people will say you know
00:35:07
PhD MD whatever or 100 followers and
00:35:10
then
00:35:11
>> 1.1 million followers oh that that
00:35:13
person knows what they're talking about
00:35:14
and that's the way it is right and I
00:35:16
think that's the problem
00:35:18
>> so but I mean like one of the things
00:35:19
that I I really try to give reasonable
00:35:23
information on like to to people like
00:35:25
social media and I'm I'm I'm really
00:35:27
trying to do that more in 2026. But I'll
00:35:29
always try and bring it back to some
00:35:31
scientific study. I won't just state it,
00:35:33
you know. I'll try and give a reference
00:35:34
and I mean it's the academic in me that
00:35:36
just comes out. But I think that that's
00:35:39
that's important to me at least is
00:35:41
having some kind of backing or
00:35:43
scientific figure. But you you do have
00:35:46
the letters after your name and also um
00:35:48
you know just the I don't know I suppose
00:35:50
the CV
00:35:51
>> to back up what you're saying whereas um
00:35:53
a lot of people on Instagram do not.
00:35:55
>> No no and it's rife as well isn't it? So
00:35:58
>> yeah okay so well let's go back and talk
00:36:00
a bit about um Dan PL um first how did
00:36:03
you end up in the NZ?
00:36:04
>> Yeah good question the So I was uh I
00:36:08
brought up in the UK and I lived in I
00:36:12
went to Liverpool University. Have you
00:36:13
heard of Liverpool University? No,
00:36:15
>> it's it's pretty big sports science
00:36:17
university. It's probably the biggest in
00:36:19
in the UK. So, I did I went there, did
00:36:22
my undergraduate, did my masters at
00:36:24
Leads when Alistister Brownley Oh yeah.
00:36:27
>> Yeah. When the Brownley brothers were
00:36:28
there. So, Alistister Incredible.
00:36:29
>> Yeah. I had a scholarship to do a
00:36:31
masters there.
00:36:32
>> So, I was basically coaching the Leads
00:36:34
team as an assistant coach whilst doing
00:36:35
a master at the same time. And um
00:36:38
Alistister and Johnny, his brother, were
00:36:40
both juniors at the time. And that year
00:36:42
Johnny went no Alistister went on to win
00:36:44
the world junior championships and that
00:36:45
was the kind of the start of his
00:36:47
trajectory to then winning the Olympics
00:36:49
in London and whatnot. But um from there
00:36:51
I got a job working in Singapore
00:36:55
um as doing but ba basically as a
00:36:58
triathlon coach but after a short time I
00:37:00
moved and went to pure exercise
00:37:02
physiology for the Singapore sports
00:37:03
council and then when I was there I was
00:37:06
doing distance learning for Edith Cohen
00:37:08
University from Perth and one of the
00:37:10
lecturers
00:37:12
from there was professor Paul Lawson who
00:37:15
was just starting a new job being the
00:37:17
head of physiology for high performance
00:37:19
Sport New Zealand. So he moved over here
00:37:22
and he really wanted to bring me over to
00:37:23
do a PhD. So he got a PhD scholarship
00:37:27
under high performance sport New
00:37:29
Zealand. I got the PhD scholarship and
00:37:31
came over initially to do a PhD
00:37:34
basically under a scholarship but the
00:37:36
what what was called the prime minister
00:37:37
scholarship with high performance sport
00:37:39
New Zealand. So
00:37:40
>> did you ever consider becoming a
00:37:42
professional athlete?
00:37:43
>> Um yeah I did. I did. I did, but I
00:37:46
wasn't honestly I didn't really find my
00:37:50
I I was kind of better as I went into
00:37:52
the Iron Man. I I always say that one of
00:37:54
my biggest regrets is I'm I probably
00:37:56
switched to Iron Man a little bit too
00:37:58
late. I didn't really do my first Iron
00:38:00
Man until I was in my 30s and it was,
00:38:03
you know, by that time I was in the
00:38:04
middle of my PhD. And so
00:38:06
>> cuz you were too busy studying in your
00:38:08
20s.
00:38:08
>> Yeah. I just wasn't into it. I was
00:38:11
wasn't I just Well, I was into
00:38:12
triathlon, but I wasn't into I wanted I
00:38:14
was very focused on the short distance,
00:38:15
which I wasn't very good at.
00:38:17
>> Oh, you say you weren't very good at
00:38:19
What was your 10K time?
00:38:20
>> 33.
00:38:21
>> Okay.
00:38:22
>> It's not It's not good enough, is it?
00:38:24
You need to be 20. You need to be 29
00:38:25
minutes, you know.
00:38:26
>> Yeah. Yeah. Compare it to like a Hayden
00:38:29
Wild standard or a Brownley standard.
00:38:31
Terrible.
00:38:31
>> It's terrible. Yeah. So
00:38:33
>> disar disgraceful.
00:38:34
>> Yeah. But it is Well, it's a long way of
00:38:36
them. But but then but then I kind of
00:38:39
went, you know, then I went into the
00:38:40
Iron Man and I I was better at that. So
00:38:42
maybe if I turned to Iron Man quicker,
00:38:43
perhaps I could have been a professional
00:38:44
Iron Man athlete. But um
00:38:46
>> who knows? But it's no regrets. I mean,
00:38:48
I'm I'm pleased the way the way things
00:38:50
evolved and I'm pleased that I had, you
00:38:53
know, my time doing working with elite
00:38:55
athletes and working in the Olympics.
00:38:57
You know, I always wanted to go to the
00:38:58
Olympics and I've been twice. So
00:39:01
>> yeah. Who have you been with? Yeah, just
00:39:04
the rowing team for 2012 and 2016.
00:39:07
>> Awesome. Yeah. What's that experience
00:39:08
like?
00:39:09
>> Do do you feel nerves when you're over
00:39:11
there as a like a a coach spectator?
00:39:14
>> You got some skin in the game.
00:39:16
>> Yeah, you have skin in the game. I don't
00:39:17
think you you feel as nervous as the
00:39:18
coaches do. I think they they have a lot
00:39:20
of skin in the game, but there's
00:39:21
definitely a little bit of of nerves
00:39:23
associated with it. And there were two
00:39:25
really different experiences. Like I
00:39:27
would say London was very different to
00:39:28
Rio. London was a lot more grandiose and
00:39:31
a lot more spectacular. Um, Rio was a
00:39:35
little bit different. You know, it was
00:39:36
kind of was half done. But, um, and we
00:39:38
didn't do as well as well. We did well,
00:39:40
but not as well. So, uh, but there were
00:39:43
two two great experiences. I mean, at
00:39:45
London, I stayed and kind of went to the
00:39:47
closing ceremony at London at Rio. I
00:39:49
came home afterwards, but
00:39:51
>> that was cool. I mean, I went to the
00:39:52
closing ceremony of the Olympics, you
00:39:53
know, in the middle of the stadium and
00:39:55
stuff. And that's a I don't think many
00:39:57
people could do that unless you're
00:40:00
Olympian. So that was pretty special.
00:40:02
>> Do you think London felt special because
00:40:03
it was your home country?
00:40:05
>> Um,
00:40:07
I don't think so. I mean, it was my
00:40:09
first ever Olympics. I just think the
00:40:11
the event was so well put on. It was
00:40:14
really really good. And the the village
00:40:17
and all the logistics around it were
00:40:19
just spectacular. So
00:40:21
>> yeah.
00:40:22
>> And your your wife Kate, how did you how
00:40:23
did you guys meet? Is she a Kiwi or is
00:40:25
she from the UK?
00:40:25
>> South African.
00:40:26
>> South African. Oh
00:40:27
>> yeah. Yeah. So, so we um we represent
00:40:30
the Commonwealth in our house. We got
00:40:31
English living in New Zealand, South
00:40:33
African. Um we met for a mutual friend.
00:40:36
>> Yeah.
00:40:36
>> Yeah.
00:40:37
>> So, her brother's um gone Elliot.
00:40:39
>> Oh, the cricketer.
00:40:40
>> Yeah.
00:40:41
>> Yeah.
00:40:41
>> The Harry Jav.
00:40:42
>> The heavy Harry Jav. Yeah. Yeah. So, so
00:40:44
there was a time when we had she was she
00:40:46
was working for when we first marketing.
00:40:50
Yeah. She did the breakers marketing and
00:40:52
um where was it rowing and so we had
00:40:54
kind of a lot of New Zealand sport going
00:40:55
on in the house.
00:40:58
>> Wow, that is a lot.
00:40:59
>> Um yes. So when was when was your last
00:41:01
Iron Man?
00:41:03
>> 200
00:41:04
Was it 23?
00:41:06
>> 2023.
00:41:07
>> Wow. And you're done?
00:41:08
>> Yeah.
00:41:09
>> Have you got the carve tattoo?
00:41:10
>> No.
00:41:12
>> You're wearing an Iron Man watch right
00:41:13
now?
00:41:13
>> Yeah. But I can take this off.
00:41:15
>> Why? Why? Why not the tattoo?
00:41:17
>> No. No. I'm not a tattoo type of I had,
00:41:20
it's funny, speaking of tattoos, I had
00:41:22
um I had shock wave therapy cuz I've got
00:41:23
this plant fasciitis at the moment. So I
00:41:25
had shock wave therapy the other week
00:41:27
and the
00:41:28
>> the guy who was doing the therapy goes
00:41:30
to me, "Have you ever had a tattoo?" And
00:41:31
I went, "No." And he went, "Oh, that's
00:41:33
unusual." And I said, "Why is that?" He
00:41:35
says, "Because if you if you can take
00:41:36
this, you can take having a tattoo." And
00:41:38
I was like, "Oh, that's not you're not
00:41:40
selling this to me."
00:41:42
>> Yes. So this this injury you've got at
00:41:44
the moment, you were telling me about
00:41:45
this before we came into record mode. Um
00:41:47
it's um holding you back from doing high
00:41:49
rocks at the moment. And it's the most
00:41:51
underwhelming injury imaginable.
00:41:53
>> Yeah. In terms of how it occurred,
00:41:55
>> how it occurred. Yeah. Trying to dig
00:41:57
holes in the sand with your heels as
00:41:59
hard as you can with your kids on the
00:42:00
beach. But I don't think that was the
00:42:02
Yeah. I think that was the that was kind
00:42:04
of the the start of it, but I don't
00:42:06
think it was the if it was the running
00:42:09
on top of it that just exacerbated it.
00:42:12
So, I think I think I'll be able to I
00:42:14
think I'm supposed to be racing this
00:42:15
weekend and I think I'll hopefully make
00:42:17
the start line. So, we'll
00:42:19
>> strap it up, hope for the best, take
00:42:20
some painkillers.
00:42:22
>> In terms of the Iron Man events you've
00:42:24
done, um what if anything have you
00:42:27
learned from those things that you could
00:42:28
never learn in a lab or a lecture?
00:42:32
>> Oh, that's a that's a what? Yeah, that's
00:42:34
a really more psychological question
00:42:36
than anything.
00:42:38
>> Yeah. I think I think one of the things
00:42:39
I always tell people with Iron Man is
00:42:41
that those long days is that you you
00:42:43
never you always have to go through the
00:42:45
es and flows and I think that's a I
00:42:47
think that's life right is that you
00:42:48
always go through ups and downs and in
00:42:50
an Iron Man you have
00:42:51
>> you have periods of that you feel
00:42:53
terrible but you also have periods where
00:42:54
you feel
00:42:55
>> okay or better and like over the course
00:42:57
of a marathon I mean you'll know this
00:42:59
from running a marathon sometimes you
00:43:00
feel terrible and then you kind of get
00:43:01
through and I think that's one thing
00:43:03
that you can't learn other than when you
00:43:05
do it is that you learn to to always
00:43:07
stay positive and never lose your head
00:43:10
and you will always you could always
00:43:12
come out the other side of it and things
00:43:14
it's such a long day and I've had um
00:43:16
I've had races where in fact it was in
00:43:19
was I man New Zealand the first time I
00:43:20
won the age group overall there my pedal
00:43:23
fell off on my bike so literally it fell
00:43:25
off and I couldn't ride so I had to wait
00:43:28
for the mechanic and I lost about 10
00:43:30
minutes and um but you know I just kept
00:43:32
on going and kept on going and I ended
00:43:34
up catching the leader with about 2k to
00:43:36
go on the last bit of the run. But those
00:43:38
sort that kind of mindset of not
00:43:40
thinking it's over until it's over
00:43:42
>> is really something that really
00:43:44
important especially for those long days
00:43:46
where you where you're really going
00:43:47
after where you just 8 hours is a long
00:43:49
time lot and and if someone cracks in an
00:43:52
Iron Man they really go
00:43:54
>> you could if they're walking if you're
00:43:56
like 10 minutes behind and they start
00:43:57
walking in the last 10k which can happen
00:44:00
you can catch them.
00:44:01
>> Yeah.
00:44:01
>> You know so it's not not like in many
00:44:03
other those those shorter events you
00:44:05
know. Have you ever ignored your own
00:44:07
advice in an event and paid the price
00:44:08
for it?
00:44:09
>> In an event, have I? I've definitely
00:44:11
ignored my own advice in training.
00:44:13
>> Was that deliberate? Like trial and
00:44:15
error?
00:44:16
>> I think one one of the one of the um
00:44:18
greatest but probably less known New
00:44:20
Zealand coaches ever is um Arthur Lyd
00:44:22
who kind of invented running um and he
00:44:25
used to this very unscientific but he
00:44:27
used to train on himself and I think
00:44:28
some weeks he'd get up to like 300 km
00:44:30
>> just work out what the optimum amount
00:44:32
was. Is that so like you in training
00:44:33
you're just trying things out? Yeah, I
00:44:35
definitely do a lot of that, but I try I
00:44:38
try different sessions on myself. I
00:44:40
can't say I've tried to push myself to
00:44:41
the limit and you know, but I've done
00:44:43
lots of things where oh that might be is
00:44:45
that session achievable, you know, whe
00:44:47
it's like 8 by3 minutes at a certain
00:44:49
watch where you do certain different
00:44:50
things and then
00:44:51
>> and I'll always try these things on
00:44:53
myself before I kind of give them out.
00:44:55
And um and generally
00:44:59
I have come I have come unstuck a few
00:45:02
times where it's been a little bit too
00:45:03
hard.
00:45:05
>> Get halfway through. Yeah, that's not
00:45:06
happening.
00:45:07
>> Yeah.
00:45:08
>> I heard you in another podcast um that I
00:45:10
was listening to talk about um the three
00:45:11
things theory which I really liked. Um
00:45:15
do do you know what I'm talking about? I
00:45:16
thought
00:45:16
>> I think I think I do. The three um the
00:45:18
three things you can have in life. You
00:45:20
mean?
00:45:20
>> Yeah.
00:45:21
>> Yeah. So the philos the philosophy is
00:45:24
the three things is that I and it wasn't
00:45:26
my idea. Someone taught me this by the
00:45:28
way.
00:45:28
>> I it's the first time I'd heard it. So
00:45:30
I'm crediting you and I loved it.
00:45:31
>> Yeah. Is that if you want to do well in
00:45:33
anything in life, you you can probably
00:45:36
focus on three things, but if you do
00:45:37
four, you're not going to do well at
00:45:40
anything. And that so that might be like
00:45:42
family, business, and training.
00:45:45
>> But that means you're not going to have
00:45:46
any time for your friends. if you want
00:45:48
to do family business and work and
00:45:49
friends and social life,
00:45:52
you just can't achieve what you're
00:45:54
actually trying to achieve. And that's
00:45:55
the I really I think that's very true.
00:45:57
And to an extent now is that I sound
00:46:00
like I don't really have much of a
00:46:02
social life, but my social life I try
00:46:04
and bring it into my training. So that
00:46:07
means that my friends would come around
00:46:08
and do the sessions with me or cycling
00:46:10
with your friends. And that's the Yeah,
00:46:13
that's the that's the three things
00:46:15
theory. And I I really believe it's it's
00:46:17
a strong one and it's true.
00:46:20
>> Well, you talked earlier about um some
00:46:21
of the bike rides and conversations you
00:46:23
have with um like Gordy Walker. So,
00:46:25
yeah, that sort of ticks the box. It's
00:46:28
not everyone's idea of socializing, but
00:46:29
>> it is it's a double box. It tick ticks
00:46:31
the box twice because I I can't
00:46:33
>> I mean I mean there's no way I'm going
00:46:35
to go out and have a beer or or go for a
00:46:37
coffee. I just, you know, I can't I
00:46:38
can't fit that in. But I have to do that
00:46:40
training. So, you can if you can bring
00:46:42
those two things together, it's it's
00:46:44
even better. these results that you've
00:46:46
got in Iron Man, what what sort of cost
00:46:49
did it come to you in terms of
00:46:50
sacrifices?
00:46:51
>> Well, I mean I would say I mean I
00:46:54
haven't really had any cost. I mean
00:46:57
>> as of so I mean I but I think
00:47:00
>> I always have tried to go I'm been I've
00:47:03
always been a real goal setter and like
00:47:05
I'm very stubborn with with when I when
00:47:07
I have a goal in mind. So when I raced
00:47:10
Kona in 2018 in 2015 for the first time
00:47:14
and I was fourif no six in my age group
00:47:17
but I did it at the time and I remember
00:47:18
calling my dad and I was like I could
00:47:20
definitely win that one day you know and
00:47:22
then and I and I had a real wanted to
00:47:25
win in 2017 and I wanted to go there but
00:47:28
my but Kate got pregnant and so and
00:47:32
Bella was actually born the day of the
00:47:35
race in 2017. So, I qualified for Kona,
00:47:40
but we realized that, you know, the
00:47:43
Bella was due on that time. So, we we we
00:47:45
put it to one side and didn't go that
00:47:46
year. But then I re-qualified in 2018,
00:47:48
and then we had, you know, we had a
00:47:50
agreement that I was going to really
00:47:51
focus to get to 2018. And and
00:47:54
thankfully, I achieved that goal. But,
00:47:56
um, I think the cost would come if I
00:47:59
hadn't achieved that goal because it's
00:48:01
so much work. And and in all honesty the
00:48:04
that it's quite strange because by that
00:48:06
point there I had finished my PhD I had
00:48:09
a number of publications in the area of
00:48:11
exercise physiology. I was coaching
00:48:12
Torenzo Bazone who you might oh I love I
00:48:15
love you.
00:48:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. So I was coaching T. Um and
00:48:18
I was coaching a number of other pro
00:48:19
athletes. So I had quite a good coaching
00:48:21
background. Um and Toenzo was flying
00:48:24
then as well. He was going super well.
00:48:26
That was a year that year he came
00:48:27
seventh in Kona. his best ever coner and
00:48:29
he'd won he went on that slew wouldn't I
00:48:31
man New Zealand went on the slew of
00:48:32
races
00:48:33
>> but it wasn't until I did what I did in
00:48:36
2018 that I ever got any notice from the
00:48:39
the triathon world really and so it made
00:48:42
a massive difference so if that hadn't
00:48:44
happened maybe it would have been a
00:48:46
sacrifice
00:48:47
>> but then after that I shut that down and
00:48:49
then I I wasn't really focusing finished
00:48:51
my PhD so that was a big I was really
00:48:55
focused on my PhD then I really focused
00:48:57
on Iron
00:48:58
finished the Iron Man, I really focus on
00:49:00
building some of the businesses I have
00:49:01
now. And then once they were
00:49:02
established, I I decided that I'd really
00:49:04
focus on trying to break 8 hours for an
00:49:06
Iron Man. So, and a switch. So, you I
00:49:09
think like that's what you have to kind
00:49:10
of,
00:49:12
>> you know, switch your focus from one
00:49:14
thing to another. And you know, there's
00:49:16
there is that three thing rule, but
00:49:18
within that three thing rule, you've
00:49:20
always got a one that's kind of your
00:49:23
northstar at the time. Like the
00:49:26
northstar might be your business, the
00:49:27
north star might be your family, the
00:49:28
northstar might be your training. Um, so
00:49:31
that's kind of how
00:49:32
>> like a a 40% 30% 30%.
00:49:35
>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And and they and
00:49:37
I think they they vary from certain
00:49:38
times and even like through the year,
00:49:39
you know, you might do a triathlon or
00:49:41
you might have a race and then it'll
00:49:43
shift. Those three things would shift
00:49:44
and that's the way I would I would try
00:49:47
and get those goals um set and then you
00:49:51
shift throughout the year and achieve
00:49:52
what you want to achieve. Yeah.
00:49:53
>> What did a um you set the scene for us.
00:49:56
What did a difficult training week look
00:49:57
like in order to get those results?
00:49:59
>> Um I mean I was I was a very consistent
00:50:02
trainer. So I I and I think that's the
00:50:05
way people should always train is that
00:50:08
you everything comes back to
00:50:10
consistency. So you don't want to have
00:50:12
weeks that are too difficult. So my my
00:50:14
hardest weeks were never crazy crazy
00:50:17
hard, but they were still I was very
00:50:19
consistent leading into like some of my
00:50:21
best races. For example, I do 21 hours
00:50:24
of training for 21 weeks. That was my
00:50:25
average leading into like Kona in 2018.
00:50:28
I did 21 hours for 21 weeks. I just
00:50:30
remember that very specifically.
00:50:31
>> That doesn't seem too bad. That works
00:50:32
out to be 3 hours a day.
00:50:33
>> Yeah, not too bad. But but over 21
00:50:35
weeks, it's consistent. All right. So So
00:50:39
yeah, I would I would typically do um
00:50:41
two to three sessions a day. swim. You
00:50:43
know, Monday I'd swim, bike, run. Um,
00:50:45
Tuesday I'd do a kind a longer ride.
00:50:48
Wednesday I'd swim and swim and run.
00:50:50
Thursday I do like a swim, a bike and a
00:50:52
run. Fridays I take easy. Then then I'd
00:50:54
have reasonable like big weekends.
00:50:56
Whereas Saturday might be four, five
00:51:00
hours, sometimes six hours of bike run
00:51:03
and then long run on a Sunday.
00:51:05
>> Were you permanently tired for 21 weeks?
00:51:08
>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. that was
00:51:10
permanently tired. And I think that's I
00:51:11
think that's one of the things about
00:51:13
that I've learned from moving from Iron
00:51:15
Man to Hierrox is that the Iron Man
00:51:17
training is very draining. Very draining
00:51:20
compared to Hy Rocks. It's not as
00:51:21
tiring. It's um it's more intense, but
00:51:24
it's shorter. Whereas if you do a 5h
00:51:26
hour ride and a 1-hour run, you you're
00:51:28
good for nothing. And I think that
00:51:30
almost affects your parenting a little
00:51:31
bit and everything else because you're
00:51:33
just so tired.
00:51:34
>> Yeah, you can be present, but it doesn't
00:51:35
mean you're being a great parent.
00:51:37
>> And that's good. I mean, it's fine when
00:51:39
you when your children are under one,
00:51:41
but once once they get to six and eight,
00:51:43
it becomes
00:51:44
>> tricky, right? Because they demand your
00:51:47
attention and they demand your energy.
00:51:49
So,
00:51:49
>> so to do three workouts a day, what time
00:51:51
are you getting up in the morning?
00:51:52
>> Five, generally.
00:51:54
>> Oh, and in bed by
00:51:56
>> 9:30.
00:51:57
>> Yeah. You you must be more aware than
00:52:00
anyone about the importance of sleep.
00:52:01
>> Yeah. Three pillars of recovery is
00:52:03
sleep, nutrition, and training
00:52:05
periodization.
00:52:06
>> Yeah.
00:52:06
>> Yeah. What's your usual sort of sleep
00:52:08
routine?
00:52:09
>> I generally get about I generally have
00:52:11
seven hours of sleep, eight hours in
00:52:12
bed.
00:52:13
>> Yeah.
00:52:13
>> And so kind of how I how I how I roll
00:52:16
with it.
00:52:16
>> Do you wear like a ring or a watch or
00:52:18
anything? Do you like do you fixate on
00:52:20
your on your your sleep and how much
00:52:22
deep sleep you're getting? And
00:52:23
>> yeah, I mean I have a I have I have an
00:52:26
Aura ring and a and I wear a Whoop at
00:52:28
the same time. So yeah, I haven't got my
00:52:30
Whoop on now, but um I do have them
00:52:32
both. But I get I don't get too freated
00:52:34
on it. I mean, my PhD was in heart rate
00:52:37
variability, so I'm more obsessed with
00:52:39
that than I am with the sleep. But
00:52:41
generally, the those sleep metrics,
00:52:43
they're great for your number of hours
00:52:44
and how much you're sleeping and maybe
00:52:46
your efficiency score, but they're not
00:52:48
very good for the
00:52:49
>> for the deep sleep and the the slow wave
00:52:51
sleep. So, I don't take too much notice
00:52:52
of of those numbers.
00:52:54
>> Yeah. Heart rate variability, HIV. I I I
00:52:58
was listening to a podcast on my run
00:52:59
yesterday morning that you did with Art
00:53:01
Green a few years ago and it was like an
00:53:03
hour of you guys talking about HIV and I
00:53:06
>> you were getting right in the weeds. Um
00:53:09
yeah, so briefly like what does that
00:53:10
mean? You did a whole PhD on the thing.
00:53:12
What does it mean?
00:53:13
>> Just finished a book on it, too.
00:53:14
>> Oh, really?
00:53:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, if you want a good
00:53:16
snoozefest and it's going to be
00:53:18
published and
00:53:19
>> Yeah. Human kinetics. Yeah. So, it's
00:53:21
it's we're one of one of four authors.
00:53:23
Um it should be out in spring of the
00:53:25
Europe time.
00:53:27
April time here.
00:53:28
>> Oh, I'll plug it. Yeah. Like who who
00:53:30
should get it? What will we get from it?
00:53:31
>> Well, it's for anyone who because it's
00:53:34
it's got a variety of things. It's got
00:53:36
training. It's got um psychological. So,
00:53:38
we're one four authors. We've got we
00:53:40
cover like some mental training and um
00:53:44
kind of the cognitive side of things.
00:53:46
And then we also cover the exercise
00:53:47
physiology. So me and my co-author Marco
00:53:50
Alini, we do the we do that the
00:53:52
physiology side and then um Sylvian
00:53:54
Lombardi and Emma Mosley are doing the
00:53:56
psychology. So I didn't know much about
00:53:58
the psychology of HRB, but it's it's
00:54:00
fascinating how different personalities
00:54:02
have different HIV traits and and how
00:54:04
your ability to cope with emotional
00:54:06
stress and how you can train your mind
00:54:07
to cope with more emotional stress and
00:54:09
affect your HIV. That that area is
00:54:11
fascinating. My area was always in
00:54:13
training side like how you how you adapt
00:54:16
to training and how you if you're
00:54:18
training if you're recovering well
00:54:19
you're not recovering well if you can do
00:54:21
more training if you can do less
00:54:22
training
00:54:23
>> so but yeah to to answer the question in
00:54:25
HIV it's um HIV is heart rate
00:54:29
variability and as so as we sit here
00:54:31
right now a heart rate might be 60 but
00:54:33
it doesn't mean that each gap between
00:54:35
each beat is a second what happens is
00:54:37
that that gap varies every single the
00:54:39
gap between beats is always varying so
00:54:41
it go from 1,000 milliseconds to 600
00:54:44
milliseconds. And that gap, the
00:54:47
variation in that gap is what heart rate
00:54:49
variability is. So you're measuring that
00:54:51
gap and how much it changes. And the
00:54:53
reason it's important is because more
00:54:55
variation is linked to your like your
00:54:58
what we call the parasympathetic side.
00:54:59
So your rest and digest, your kind of
00:55:01
recovery state. And then the less
00:55:04
variation is linked to your sympathetic
00:55:06
side, which is the fight or flight, your
00:55:08
more stress state. So, you know, if I'm
00:55:10
quite nervous for this podcast
00:55:11
interview, I'll be a bit more
00:55:13
sympathetic. If I'm nice and relaxed,
00:55:14
I'll be more parasympathetic. And you,
00:55:16
we know that you're more adaptive to
00:55:18
training. When your parasympathetic
00:55:22
system is higher, you can cope with more
00:55:23
training. So, if you try and overflow
00:55:25
yourself with high stress training at a
00:55:28
time when you're already stressed, your
00:55:30
adaptation to that process is less.
00:55:32
>> So, it's almost like, you know, fgging a
00:55:33
dead horse. It's similar similar aspect
00:55:35
to to that kind of
00:55:37
>> that kind of meth methodology.
00:55:39
>> Amazing. What's the title of the book?
00:55:42
>> HIV for H high availability science and
00:55:45
practices or something like that. It's
00:55:47
really boring one.
00:55:50
>> Yeah, you're going to you're going to
00:55:51
stop talking it down. I thought this
00:55:53
this is pretty much
00:55:54
>> it is it's a great book. It's going to
00:55:56
it is um the the title may sound
00:55:59
academic but we've made it
00:56:01
>> it's quite chatty compared I mean I
00:56:03
publish a lot of papers in academic
00:56:05
journals it's not like that
00:56:06
>> uh it's very extensive and it covers
00:56:09
>> the good thing about higher variability
00:56:10
is you wouldn't believe the crossover to
00:56:13
everything aging like we've already
00:56:15
talked about you really as you age you
00:56:18
the more you can maintain higher and
00:56:19
stable HIV the better you the better
00:56:22
your longevity the better your health
00:56:23
the better your wellbeing and that's why
00:56:25
these metrics like Whoop orings are
00:56:27
becoming so popular because they are
00:56:29
able to track well-being really really
00:56:32
really well.
00:56:33
>> How how important is diet to you like
00:56:35
dayto-day? What what does your diet look
00:56:37
like?
00:56:38
>> Um I'm pretty um diet diet's really
00:56:41
important to me. Um and I'm very strict
00:56:43
about it. I guess I wouldn't say strict,
00:56:45
but I'm quite I'm I'm very strict on my
00:56:48
food sources more. Um, when I was doing
00:56:50
Iron Man, I was quite well known for
00:56:52
following more of a low carb approach to
00:56:54
my to my diet. I'm not so much like that
00:56:56
with higher rocks cuz it's not as
00:56:58
important for for that type of sport,
00:57:01
but still now I'm still, you know, I
00:57:04
prioritize my proteins and um I'm
00:57:06
prioritized the food source, making sure
00:57:08
it's, you know, organic and whole food
00:57:10
and and they're kind of the main focuses
00:57:13
I I put put on diet. Now, um, but I
00:57:17
think what I tell athletes is the most
00:57:20
important bit is the protein part is
00:57:21
that you get I mean you had Mickey on,
00:57:23
right? So, yeah, Mickey would say the
00:57:25
same. So, you know, get the protein part
00:57:27
right. Make sure that's your big rocks.
00:57:29
And then the fats and carbohydrates
00:57:31
part, it doesn't really matter that
00:57:33
much. It's dependent on what your
00:57:35
nutritional goals are and and what sport
00:57:38
you're doing. And
00:57:40
>> in that that podcast I was talking about
00:57:42
before that you did with Art Green, you
00:57:43
and him uh were broing out about talking
00:57:46
about doing a a raw liver diet.
00:57:48
>> Yeah, we did. We tried it. Yeah, we just
00:57:51
was trying an experiment.
00:57:52
>> It sounds awful.
00:57:53
>> Yeah, it was actually quite good though
00:57:55
to be I felt I felt really good on that.
00:57:58
It was it was um yeah so we were doing
00:58:01
um it was a car it was a kind of a
00:58:03
modified carnivore diet where it wasn't
00:58:05
we were allowing a bit of fruit at the
00:58:07
same time and I have to say I did feel
00:58:09
good on it
00:58:10
>> but we were eating raw liver
00:58:12
>> as a result of it wasn't it wasn't as
00:58:15
bad as it sounds
00:58:16
>> you say you felt good on it how like is
00:58:18
it possible that part of that is placebo
00:58:19
or no like
00:58:21
>> of course I mean placebo the placebo is
00:58:23
a real thing
00:58:24
>> but it um I mean but We I also I used to
00:58:28
drink I wouldn't say I drank a lot but I
00:58:30
did drink a little bit of alcohol now
00:58:32
and again you know maybe one or two
00:58:34
glasses of wine with dinner a week but
00:58:37
during that I stopped completely and I
00:58:39
haven't since
00:58:40
>> I stopped Yeah because I just saw the
00:58:42
effect it had.
00:58:43
>> Yeah.
00:58:44
>> So it's a massive lever.
00:58:46
>> Do would you people talk about having
00:58:48
cheap meals and stuff? What if you were
00:58:49
having like a a cheap meal? What would
00:58:51
you have?
00:58:52
>> Um
00:58:53
>> when was when was the last time you went
00:58:54
to a KFC? Oh,
00:58:57
I wouldn't even know.
00:58:58
>> You look disgusted.
00:58:59
>> Yeah, I I couldn't I couldn't actually
00:59:01
answer the question.
00:59:02
>> I don't think I've been in years.
00:59:04
Absolutely. I haven't done a fast food
00:59:06
in years. I sound boring, don't I? But
00:59:08
>> no, no, no, no, no. It's fascinating.
00:59:09
Like, I mean, look at you. You're fit.
00:59:11
You're healthy. Um, academically, you
00:59:14
you've done some crazy stuff.
00:59:15
Athletically, you've done some crazy
00:59:17
stuff. Um, so I'm I'm just intrigued and
00:59:21
>> I haven't been in in a very long time,
00:59:23
but we we try and, you know, we just try
00:59:25
and keep it at home. My my wife's
00:59:28
amazing with the the way she brings the
00:59:31
food and collects the food. Like she,
00:59:32
for example, she makes Greek yogurt out
00:59:35
of milk herself,
00:59:37
>> you know. So we have this like raw Greek
00:59:40
yogurt to eat at home and it's like, you
00:59:41
know, high in protein and great for the
00:59:43
kids. And
00:59:44
>> how do you avoid McDonald's when you've
00:59:46
got kids? You know, there's there's like
00:59:48
there's marketing and stuff and
00:59:50
>> they've never they've never been.
00:59:52
>> Yeah. They
00:59:52
>> all it's gonna take is a visit to a
00:59:53
friend's house and they they get a
00:59:55
nugget.
00:59:56
>> So far, we've avoided it, but I've kind
00:59:58
of like indoctrinated in them that it's
00:59:59
not good for them. So, when they see it,
01:00:01
they're like, "Oh, daddy."
01:00:03
It's like, "Yes."
01:00:05
>> What did Well, we were we were at um we
01:00:08
were at the beach the other day and one
01:00:09
of the parents came over and he says,
01:00:12
"Oh, I think I think my kids should hang
01:00:14
out with your kids a bit more." I says,
01:00:15
"Why is that?" I says, "Well, they were
01:00:16
just over at the ice cream van." And
01:00:17
Jake, who's six, he goes, "Oh, yeah,
01:00:19
that's got seed oils in it."
01:00:25
So, I was like, "Probably it's not
01:00:27
correct." But at least he's at least
01:00:30
he's thinking on my lines.
01:00:34
>> Okay. Well, if you could only eat um the
01:00:36
same meal over and over again every day,
01:00:38
what would your plates look like?
01:00:41
>> Steak and It have to be a steak. Yeah. A
01:00:44
steak and a salad with sweet potato or
01:00:47
something.
01:00:47
>> Yeah.
01:00:48
>> So, we say you can have three different
01:00:49
things because I I can eat I can eat
01:00:51
clean, but I I I can eat very boring as
01:00:53
well. Like if you told me what the right
01:00:55
things to eat were.
01:00:56
>> Yeah.
01:00:56
>> Um for health and performance and
01:00:58
everything else, I could have the same
01:00:59
thing meal after meal. So, for
01:01:01
breakfast,
01:01:02
>> what would you have?
01:01:04
>> Um for breakfast every day.
01:01:07
>> Can Can I have different things in this?
01:01:09
Can I have different things in there or
01:01:10
is it just what one thing?
01:01:11
>> There's no rules.
01:01:12
>> There's no rules. Yeah. So, if I if I
01:01:14
had to have one breakfast, I would have
01:01:15
like Greek yogurt with protein powder
01:01:18
and a banana in there. That's what I
01:01:20
would have.
01:01:21
>> It's pretty. I mean, protein powder,
01:01:22
Greek yogurt.
01:01:24
>> Yeah. That's what I would go for.
01:01:25
>> Would that be filling filling enough?
01:01:27
>> Yeah. With the protein powder?
01:01:28
>> Yeah. With the protein powder. Yeah.
01:01:29
>> Okay. And what about lunch?
01:01:31
>> Um,
01:01:32
eggs on some sort of paleo toast. Yeah.
01:01:37
>> Yeah. Fried eggs.
01:01:38
>> Yeah. It's not bad though. I don't mind
01:01:40
it. like a like a gluten-free, lower
01:01:42
carbohydrate.
01:01:44
>> That's what I'd have.
01:01:45
>> Are you eggs every day?
01:01:46
>> Yeah.
01:01:47
>> Yeah.
01:01:48
>> Um at least three. Minimum of three. So
01:01:52
we in our street we have um we have a
01:01:54
lady over the road who has her own
01:01:56
chickens and she kind of gives the
01:01:58
chickens. You got you got an egg dealer.
01:02:00
>> Yeah. She she deals the eggs around the
01:02:02
street. And so, but we're always um
01:02:04
we're the highest egg consumer in the
01:02:05
street. And I'm like, street, you making
01:02:08
sure that we're getting the I want to
01:02:09
make sure that we're the highest egg
01:02:10
consumers in the street. Are we still
01:02:11
the highest egg consumers? And we are.
01:02:16
>> It's very confusing though, isn't it?
01:02:17
Because I'm sure there was a period in
01:02:19
my life where eggs were
01:02:20
>> there was for sure. Yeah. But there's no
01:02:23
more there's no more whole food now. I
01:02:26
mean, it's well known that it's it's not
01:02:28
that way anymore, I think. But that I
01:02:29
think that was all the saturated fat
01:02:30
hypothesis and it's being well debunked
01:02:33
now.
01:02:35
>> What about dinner?
01:02:36
>> Steak and salad.
01:02:37
>> Steak and salad. Okay.
01:02:39
>> Yeah,
01:02:39
>> they all sound like great meals.
01:02:41
>> Yeah, I love a steak and salad though. I
01:02:43
I don't I think I could have
01:02:45
>> I think I could have that every day,
01:02:46
every single day for sure. Easy. The
01:02:48
steak and salad. Um maybe with a bit of
01:02:51
like sweet potato like a sweet potato
01:02:53
chips as well, something like that.
01:02:55
>> Homemade mayonnaise. We do that at home.
01:02:57
So,
01:02:57
>> what about like evening snacks? Do you
01:02:59
always have some Whitaker's chocolate on
01:03:01
the freezer or
01:03:02
>> Yeah, generally
01:03:04
some um 92%
01:03:07
>> you know 92% Whitakeras.
01:03:10
>> No. What's that?
01:03:11
>> Like really dark. Really dark. Yeah. So
01:03:13
92%. Most people would think it's
01:03:15
disgusting to be honest,
01:03:17
>> but I don't mind it. I think it's quite
01:03:19
good.
01:03:20
>> Yeah.
01:03:22
>> This is great. Um
01:03:23
>> I often another one that I like is um a
01:03:25
cereal called Wonder Crunch. Have you
01:03:27
heard of that?
01:03:29
>> No.
01:03:29
>> Yeah. It's a Wonder Crunch cereal.
01:03:31
Anyone anyone should get I I think it's
01:03:34
awesome. It's a and and my kids love it,
01:03:36
too. So, it's a high protein cereal.
01:03:37
It's got 20 grams of protein per serve
01:03:39
cuz most cereals just like cardboard,
01:03:41
right? It's got no It's just all
01:03:42
carbohydrates, nothing in it, no
01:03:44
protein. But this is the high protein
01:03:46
cereal called Wonder Crunch and it has
01:03:47
20 grams per serve. So, sometimes you
01:03:49
want to like bit of a protein hit.
01:03:51
Prioritize your protein.
01:03:53
>> Um, good way to have that at night, too.
01:03:55
Sometimes
01:03:56
>> you What do your kids eat for breakfast?
01:03:58
It's hard with cereals, eh?
01:04:00
>> Yeah. I mean, they have cereals once a
01:04:02
week, but they have like the Wonder
01:04:03
Crunch. Um, but it's is hard with they
01:04:07
um they typically will have some kind of
01:04:10
like egg, like fried egg or something
01:04:12
like that. But,
01:04:12
>> you know, they do get the they sometimes
01:04:14
get the egg for for a while. So, then,
01:04:18
you know, they just go off them and then
01:04:19
you're like stuck. But
01:04:21
>> but what happens when you take the kids
01:04:23
to the grocery store? They sort of have
01:04:25
the the Kellogg section at sort of eye
01:04:26
level for kids and there's the bright
01:04:28
colors with fruit loops.
01:04:30
>> We don't actually I don't think we don't
01:04:31
really take them.
01:04:33
>> No, we don't. They just don't go.
01:04:35
>> It's probably smart.
01:04:36
>> Yeah.
01:04:37
>> Yeah.
01:04:38
>> Yeah. I don't think we've um I think we
01:04:40
obviously have been, but not very often.
01:04:43
>> And generally we go to like,
01:04:45
>> you know, we go in the daytime without
01:04:47
them. I mean, who wants to take kids to
01:04:48
a grocery store really? M oh well
01:04:50
there's a lot of temptation as well like
01:04:52
god how many toddlers do you see having
01:04:53
a tantrum because they can't have a
01:04:55
kinder surprise or whatever it is.
01:04:56
>> Yeah. Well it's like it's a kids sport
01:04:58
as well. You know my kids do a lot of
01:05:00
different activities and after
01:05:02
activities often the lollies will come
01:05:03
out and they just like a nightmare
01:05:05
tantrums all around.
01:05:06
>> Oh just the sugar.
01:05:08
>> Yeah. Just but you know or fighting over
01:05:09
the lollies or it's like it's just like
01:05:11
crazy. So
01:05:14
>> um hey this has been great. I got a
01:05:15
couple of sections here. I've got one uh
01:05:16
one section called high performers and
01:05:18
then one question called um well one
01:05:21
card called questions for everyone um
01:05:23
which is just more towards the weekend
01:05:24
warrior I guess.
01:05:25
>> Okay.
01:05:25
>> So I'm keen to pick pick your brains.
01:05:26
First of all, high performance. What is
01:05:28
one word that defines world class
01:05:30
athletes?
01:05:30
>> Consistency.
01:05:34
>> That's a great answer. So so boring but
01:05:35
it's a great answer.
01:05:36
>> Yeah. But that's um that is everything
01:05:38
is all about. And that's what I think is
01:05:41
like anyone who's who's listening or
01:05:43
watching this and they want to achieve
01:05:45
anything, you have to pick something
01:05:46
that you can do consistently.
01:05:48
>> And that's like like we're talking about
01:05:50
before with your Kepler um aspirations
01:05:54
like including that's why I said
01:05:55
including cycling. It will allow you to
01:05:57
be more consistent with your training
01:05:58
because you won't you won't get as
01:06:00
injured. You'll do more training. You'll
01:06:01
get you get that consistent
01:06:03
cardiovascular hit and that's the the
01:06:05
most important aspect and that's with
01:06:08
anything. So, if you're looking at a
01:06:10
diet, if you're choosing like a fasting
01:06:12
mimicking diet or a vegan diet or a
01:06:14
carnivore diet or keto diet or whatever
01:06:16
it might be, you just got to pick the
01:06:18
one that you can do as consistently as
01:06:20
you possibly can and that's going to
01:06:21
always lead to your best results for
01:06:23
everything.
01:06:26
>> Um, something I heard you talking about
01:06:28
on another podcast is um something that
01:06:30
you've um sort of stolen or borrowed
01:06:32
from the All Blacks. Um, and in
01:06:34
particular, it's in the uh the James
01:06:35
Kerbook Legacy, which is a great book.
01:06:37
uh and he talks about the no [ __ ]
01:06:38
policy and this is something that you've
01:06:41
um implemented maybe not on the record
01:06:44
but off the record or under the surface
01:06:45
with your clients. What does that mean
01:06:47
for you?
01:06:48
>> Well well I mean I have a lot of
01:06:49
athletes who ask me to coach them and
01:06:51
the first thing I always do is I I I I
01:06:56
just interview them. Well, I say
01:06:57
interview, but we have a chat and then
01:06:59
and then I see if I like them or not.
01:07:01
and and I don't um and often they'll
01:07:04
come to me and they'll give me their
01:07:06
results and they'll say I'm fast at this
01:07:08
and I can do this and I really don't
01:07:09
care that much really because if I'm
01:07:11
working with someone I much prefer that
01:07:12
they're a good person and I get on with
01:07:15
them and you know they have good values
01:07:18
because they're the people who who you
01:07:21
want to because you enjoy working with
01:07:23
those sorts of people and that's always
01:07:25
been my philosophy is I'd sooner take
01:07:28
the person who's just nice to be around.
01:07:30
I mean, we I went on a camp with some
01:07:32
athletes to Kona, not last year, the
01:07:34
year before, and they were just like
01:07:36
four of my one-on-one weekend warrior
01:07:38
athletes, and we had just the best time,
01:07:40
and they all got along, and that's kind
01:07:42
of that's what I live for. It's so good.
01:07:44
So amazing when you can have those sorts
01:07:46
of um
01:07:48
>> those people, and they're all so
01:07:49
inspirational. like, you know, they had
01:07:50
one one guy who's um he's a pediatric
01:07:54
dentist who owns like multiple pediatric
01:07:57
dentist um places around the US. Another
01:08:00
one who's a he owns a unicorn like
01:08:02
startup in the US, you know, and they're
01:08:04
just like they're inspirational, but
01:08:06
they're all just so awesome at the same
01:08:08
time. And they're sort of people who I
01:08:11
>> like to work with.
01:08:12
>> Yeah. Yeah. The it's interesting. Okay,
01:08:14
just think about it now because it's um
01:08:16
obviously you don't want to be with
01:08:17
anyone that's um yeah cocky or arrogant
01:08:20
or a [ __ ] but yet to to be like a a
01:08:23
a 1enter I suppose you do need like a
01:08:26
huge amount of self-confidence or
01:08:28
self-belief and it can be like a fine
01:08:30
line between that and arrogance.
01:08:33
>> Yeah. What what's the what's the word is
01:08:35
like I think there's there's I think
01:08:37
there's a difference between ego and
01:08:38
self-confidence. So like ego is when you
01:08:41
think you're better than other people.
01:08:43
Self-confidence is when you believe in
01:08:44
yourself.
01:08:45
>> And I think those there's a high degree
01:08:47
of self-confidence and that's true. But
01:08:49
they don't think that they're better
01:08:50
than other people. And and that's the
01:08:52
difference is that you can have those
01:08:54
athletes that have a high ego and they
01:08:55
think, you know, something's beneath
01:08:57
beneath them or they're better than
01:08:59
other people. But all athletes have a
01:09:02
high degree of self-confidence for sure.
01:09:03
And I think anyone who achieves anything
01:09:05
has a high degree of self-confidence. So
01:09:08
um and they're the sorts of people who
01:09:09
you want, but you don't want the ones
01:09:11
with the big egos. That's a great Can
01:09:13
you Can you repeat that line again? I
01:09:14
think it's worth repeating. I've never
01:09:16
heard that before.
01:09:16
>> The difference between ego and
01:09:17
self-conidence. So So yeah. So an ego
01:09:20
ego is somebody who
01:09:23
generally believes that they're better
01:09:24
than another person. Whereas a
01:09:26
self-confident person is a person who
01:09:27
has a lot of confidence in their own
01:09:29
ability. So and that that
01:09:31
self-confidence comes from their
01:09:32
training, from the things that they've
01:09:34
done, but they don't necessarily think
01:09:36
that because of that they're better than
01:09:37
that next person. They still believe
01:09:38
that the people next to them are a
01:09:40
threat and they still believe that they
01:09:41
have to they can they're worthy people.
01:09:43
>> [ __ ] that's so good.
01:09:45
>> What makes a great coach athlete
01:09:47
relationship truly effective at the
01:09:48
highest level?
01:09:50
>> Years consist again goes back to
01:09:53
consistency, doesn't it? But I think
01:09:54
like the the best coach athletes
01:09:56
relationships are the ones that have
01:09:58
been going for a very very long time.
01:10:00
Lisa and Gordy, prime example, like
01:10:02
they're they're athletes who have been
01:10:04
together for a very long time. Michael
01:10:06
Phelps, his coach, I think it's Bob Bers
01:10:08
of Bob his they were together for his
01:10:11
entire career. But it's those long
01:10:12
relationships that make um make good
01:10:15
athletes and coaches and because and the
01:10:17
main reason that is is because then they
01:10:19
build this amazing like communication of
01:10:22
like knowing without knowing without
01:10:25
having to tell without having to say
01:10:26
what's going on. They kind of can read
01:10:28
each other really well and that's when
01:10:29
the best relationships come about.
01:10:32
>> Yeah.
01:10:33
>> I um Yeah. I don't know if you if you
01:10:35
know Craig Kirkwood or Hayden Wild.
01:10:38
>> Yes. Yes, of course. Yeah.
01:10:39
>> Yeah. So, they they had a long long
01:10:40
term. I've actually got an episode
01:10:41
recorded with Craig, which will probably
01:10:42
be out before this one. Um, but they had
01:10:44
a long relationship and they sort of
01:10:46
parted ways. Not on any bad terms or
01:10:48
anything, but just cuz Hayden wanted to
01:10:50
explore if there's another,
01:10:51
>> I suppose, level to the game.
01:10:53
>> Yeah.
01:10:53
>> Yeah. What do you think about something
01:10:54
like that? Is that a reasonable thing?
01:10:56
Is that understandable an athlete at
01:10:58
that level?
01:10:58
>> I do think there's I mean, I think all
01:11:00
all coaches and athletes, they'll always
01:11:02
run their course, right? And um and who
01:11:06
yeah I mean it just
01:11:07
>> I suppose you never know if it's the
01:11:08
right move.
01:11:08
>> You never know it's the right move and
01:11:10
and who knows I mean Hayden's been going
01:11:12
okay right since but he's not also not
01:11:14
done as well in the in the Olympic
01:11:17
distance but he's been crushing the
01:11:18
T100. So
01:11:19
>> I mean Hayden's actually in Browns Bay
01:11:21
at the moment staying there. So he's
01:11:22
just he just messaged me yesterday in
01:11:25
fact.
01:11:25
>> What do you want to go out for a run or
01:11:27
a roll? He was trying he was trying to
01:11:28
respray me. I think he was trying to get
01:11:29
me to go out riding but um not quite I'm
01:11:31
not quite not quite ready for that.
01:11:34
>> He's he's a savage J. Like I had him on
01:11:36
the podcast really early on on the the
01:11:38
piece and he sent me a voice note while
01:11:39
he was out mountain biking. Yeah.
01:11:41
>> And just about had paused like halfway
01:11:43
through the voice note because he was
01:11:45
driving you riding over a tree trunk or
01:11:47
something. He's just like um just type
01:11:50
two fun all day every day.
01:11:51
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's just he loves it. I
01:11:52
mean he's someone who just enjoys the
01:11:54
process, right? He loves getting out
01:11:56
there and training. So, but yeah, I mean
01:11:59
>> I mean I mean Craig's having now amazing
01:12:01
success with Sam Ruth, right? So,
01:12:04
>> I'm sure he's got his thing he's got his
01:12:05
hands full with that as well.
01:12:06
>> Oh my god. Yeah. To time stamp this
01:12:08
conversation, just the weekend before
01:12:11
Sam Ruth did like a 353 mile at the age
01:12:14
of 16.
01:12:15
>> What the [ __ ] is he He will He's likely
01:12:18
to be New Zealand's best uh middle
01:12:20
distance runner ever.
01:12:21
>> You You'd hope so. I mean, he's if he
01:12:25
stays injuryfree and and consistent with
01:12:28
his training, he's definitely going to
01:12:29
he will definitely be. Yeah. Really?
01:12:32
>> Well, since you know Hayden, what would
01:12:34
you like to see him do um beyond
01:12:36
triathlon? Like
01:12:38
>> he's got to do Kona.
01:12:39
>> He has to do the Iron Man World
01:12:41
Championships. I'd love to see him do
01:12:42
that. Um
01:12:43
>> he's a great great runner, e like
01:12:45
fantastic runner.
01:12:46
>> Incredible.
01:12:47
>> Yeah. So easy as well. He just looks
01:12:49
effortless. some of the things he's he
01:12:51
sent he sends me some of his training
01:12:52
that he does and I'm just like wow it's
01:12:54
like he's next level really is next
01:12:56
>> more than 21 hours a week
01:12:58
>> for 21 weeks
01:12:59
>> a week
01:13:00
>> he's just he's never sitting still
01:13:02
anyway is he
01:13:02
>> no no he's always on it
01:13:04
>> he loves it
01:13:05
>> uh when when do you push and when do you
01:13:08
protect an athlete from themselves?
01:13:11
Um
01:13:13
I think I think career-wise you when I
01:13:16
look at an athlete I'll always look at
01:13:19
their career and where they are in their
01:13:20
trajectory of the career. So younger
01:13:22
athletes need a push. Older athletes
01:13:24
need a pull back. So generally in my
01:13:26
experience a younger athlete they don't
01:13:28
really have that capacity or that
01:13:30
knowledge or that knowledge to truly
01:13:32
know where they can go to and they'll
01:13:35
often need a bit of a push. Whereas if
01:13:37
you have an older athlete who's like
01:13:39
been in the game for a long time and say
01:13:41
like say say say say say say say say say
01:13:42
say say say say say say say say say say
01:13:42
say say say say say say say say say say
01:13:42
say say say say say say say say say say
01:13:42
say say I'll just think of Gordy and
01:13:43
Lisa for example if um if Lisa came to
01:13:46
Gordy and she says oh I'm feeling really
01:13:48
tired today you know he would definitely
01:13:49
listen because that Lisa does not would
01:13:51
not say that unless she really meant it
01:13:53
whereas a younger athlete who might say
01:13:56
they're a bit tired like you know this
01:13:58
is part of the process you need to kind
01:13:59
of go through so I think there's a lot a
01:14:01
lot of um that but I think generally
01:14:04
like fatigue and tiredness
01:14:06
you can you can push provided where it
01:14:09
is in the training cycle especially if
01:14:10
you've got a recovery period going up
01:14:12
but
01:14:12
>> injuries and niggles that then you don't
01:14:16
push those right because they they can
01:14:17
get worse you know and I and I think I
01:14:19
think I always think that when I've
01:14:22
I generally I've felt very tired for
01:14:24
many sessions and
01:14:27
>> I have never ever regretted well when
01:14:30
your motivation is low to train I've
01:14:31
never regretted doing a session and you
01:14:33
know that if you don't feel like running
01:14:34
if you go out and do that And have you
01:14:36
ever regretted doing that run?
01:14:38
>> Never.
01:14:39
>> Never. Exactly.
01:14:40
>> You always feel better at doing feel
01:14:41
better after it. So generally you can
01:14:43
always get through it. The only time
01:14:44
you'd feel you'd regret is if you had a
01:14:47
calf strain and you you felt a bit tight
01:14:49
and you weren't sure and you tore it
01:14:51
during that then you then you'd have
01:14:53
regret. But generally from if you don't
01:14:55
feel like doing it and you feel fine,
01:14:56
you you never regret it. And I think
01:14:58
that's that's what that's what so I
01:14:59
think it's always you can always put you
01:15:01
can always do a little bit more than you
01:15:02
you realize. It's hard to overtrain.
01:15:04
Very hard. A lot a lot of the wisdom you
01:15:06
were talking about does come with age
01:15:07
though, like in your 20s where you were
01:15:09
pain is weakness leaving my body kind of
01:15:12
guy.
01:15:12
>> I mean, I think I had when I was
01:15:15
younger. Have you heard of Paul Amy?
01:15:17
>> No.
01:15:18
>> So Paul Amy was a he's uh he's a he was
01:15:22
a Kiwi. He moved but he moved over to
01:15:24
the UK and he came second at the World
01:15:26
Triathlon Championships for New Zealand
01:15:28
in 1998.
01:15:30
>> Um and he was he beat Hamish Carter, for
01:15:32
example. So he was that level. Yeah,
01:15:33
Hamish Kat won the gold medal at 2000.
01:15:35
>> Yeah, exactly. So, he's super But he
01:15:37
moved over to the UK and he started
01:15:39
training at our center in Lithra and I
01:15:42
was assigned to him as his training
01:15:44
partner and that was the one time I did
01:15:45
come become very over like really tired,
01:15:48
very overtrained cuz I was trying to
01:15:50
train with him all the time.
01:15:52
>> Um, but that was yeah, I think that was
01:15:54
in my 20s and I definitely pushed a
01:15:56
little bit too much. But yeah, but that
01:15:58
wasn't through intensity. It was just
01:15:59
through volume. It's like the term that
01:16:02
term overtraining is used so flippantly
01:16:05
and I really don't like it. It's a it's
01:16:07
a terrible term because it it's it's
01:16:10
very suggestive that overtraining is a
01:16:12
reason why someone's fatigued. And I can
01:16:15
tell you nine times out of 10 it's never
01:16:17
the training. It's always something
01:16:19
else. It's
01:16:20
life stress, not enough sleep, poor
01:16:23
nutrition. Because if that same person
01:16:25
did the same training again with
01:16:26
different
01:16:28
things around them or different loads
01:16:29
around them, they wouldn't have the same
01:16:30
outcome. So I think that's where the
01:16:33
outside stuff becomes super important.
01:16:35
>> That's so interesting.
01:16:38
>> So when you start working with someone
01:16:40
that's already like at the top of their
01:16:42
game or a world champion, how do you how
01:16:43
like how do you earn or build their
01:16:45
trust?
01:16:46
So, I mean, do you know what? Like, I
01:16:49
was thinking about this because when I
01:16:51
went when I went to rowing, for example,
01:16:52
I feel like I got quite a lot of trust
01:16:55
quite quickly.
01:16:56
>> And I do,
01:16:57
>> even though it's a sport you you don't
01:16:58
>> even though it's a even though it's a
01:16:59
sport I'd never really been that
01:17:01
involved in. I did a little bit of
01:17:02
rowing when I was in Singapore. But I
01:17:04
think if you if you are an athlete
01:17:06
yourself around athletes, you get it's a
01:17:09
it's a lot easier. You they if they know
01:17:11
that you've done some kind of athletic
01:17:13
endeavor yourself and you and you you
01:17:15
have trained to a to a degree, you you
01:17:18
kind of get that process. It definitely
01:17:20
is of benefit. And I would like, you
01:17:23
know, I go out riding with Emma Twig and
01:17:25
I go out riding with Mah Dale and, you
01:17:27
know, you build that relationship just
01:17:28
from riding bikes with them. And um
01:17:31
>> and I think that's um yeah, that is kind
01:17:34
of it's easier to to build to build that
01:17:36
level of trust. But
01:17:37
>> like to answer the question, when you
01:17:38
when you when I when I've taken on
01:17:41
athletes who are of that high level in
01:17:43
the past, for example, I coached um
01:17:45
Javier Gomez.
01:17:46
>> Oh, yep.
01:17:47
>> You know Javier Gomez
01:17:48
>> triathlete? Yeah. Yeah. So I coached
01:17:49
him. Yes. He's legend. So nine times
01:17:51
world champion. So I coached him towards
01:17:52
the back end of his his career.
01:17:54
>> And you know when he came in didn't
01:17:57
change that much. You know you you I
01:17:59
looked at his past training. I looked at
01:18:00
his typical run volume. I looked at his
01:18:02
typical training intensity distribution
01:18:04
and what he did and I added a few little
01:18:07
differences but not you don't want to
01:18:09
change that much because things that
01:18:11
work work. You know small iterations.
01:18:13
And even when I look at some of the best
01:18:15
performers in that I've worked with in
01:18:16
New Zealand, if you look at their
01:18:18
training year on year, it doesn't change
01:18:20
much. It's it's pretty mundane and it's
01:18:22
pretty similar. It's very repeatable and
01:18:24
they're doing the same thing year in
01:18:26
year out. Um, but it's just really small
01:18:29
tweaks. You know, an extra little bit
01:18:31
less recovery here, an extra little bit
01:18:33
of rep duration there, a little bit more
01:18:36
volume, you know, slightly longer in a
01:18:38
high intensity week, but for the most
01:18:39
part, it stays the same
01:18:41
>> because it's um a formula that works.
01:18:44
>> Yeah. I suppose there's not a lot of
01:18:45
coaches that are going training with
01:18:47
these high performance athletes, so
01:18:48
that's a good way to earn trust as well,
01:18:50
I guess.
01:18:50
>> Yeah, it helps. It helps. And like I've
01:18:52
had that some of the questions I've had
01:18:54
on other podcasts was what what do I
01:18:57
think when I when I do these training
01:18:59
programs? What do I think? But I really
01:19:00
think that I can when I write a training
01:19:02
program, I can really feel it. And it
01:19:04
sounds strange. I can I can feel
01:19:07
if I'm writing it, I can feel the day
01:19:10
and what it feels like. And then and so
01:19:12
I'll be like, "Oh yeah, if I'm doing
01:19:13
that on that day and then wake up the
01:19:16
next morning and I've written a session,
01:19:17
I can almost feel what that session is
01:19:19
going to feel like." And I'll sometimes
01:19:20
change it because I have this feeling
01:19:21
and I don't think you'd get that unless
01:19:23
you've done it yourself.
01:19:24
>> Yeah. It's almost like like an element
01:19:25
of empathy in a way.
01:19:27
>> Yeah. To a degree. But you So you could
01:19:30
feel the the fatigue. You can feel how
01:19:32
it feels and then you it really helps
01:19:34
with I mean obviously I've got the
01:19:36
scientific background but that kind of
01:19:38
part is very helpful for me.
01:19:40
>> You you mentioned Emma Twig before.
01:19:42
She's won um backto-back Olympic golds.
01:19:44
Um, were you working with her before
01:19:46
that? Before she won the
01:19:47
>> Yeah, I worked very close closely with
01:19:49
Emma in 2015 when she won the World
01:19:52
Championships in Amsterdam. Yeah. And a
01:19:54
coach. So, yeah, she was she was good
01:19:57
fun.
01:19:58
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. What I mean, I
01:20:00
haven't had her on the podcast yet. I'd
01:20:01
love to have her on though. Like, she's
01:20:02
it's incredible what she's done. And,
01:20:04
>> you know, I I just wonder what kept her
01:20:06
going like after Olympic disappointment
01:20:08
before, you know, winning back to gold.
01:20:10
>> She I mean, she'd be a great interview
01:20:11
to have. You know what I mean? That's
01:20:13
adversity right there.
01:20:14
>> Yep. Yeah. Massive disappointment
01:20:16
because I mean bronze in bronze I mean I
01:20:18
was with her in Rio and she was
01:20:21
obviously gutted. So
01:20:22
>> yeah. So she won a bronze theater.
01:20:24
>> She know she got not bronze. Sorry. She
01:20:26
got fourth.
01:20:26
>> Fourth. Yeah.
01:20:27
>> Yeah. And she got fourth in London,
01:20:28
fourth in Rio and then she came back.
01:20:31
>> It's incredible. Eh, like why didn't she
01:20:34
give up?
01:20:36
>> Because she knew what I think she
01:20:38
>> It's that self-belief, right? She knew
01:20:39
what she was capable of. It comes back
01:20:41
to that ego versus belief. She's not
01:20:43
someone with an ego, but she has a
01:20:44
strong belief in what she can do.
01:20:46
>> But four years is such a long time to
01:20:48
wait to prove yourself.
01:20:49
>> Very long time.
01:20:49
>> Or the opportunity to prove.
01:20:50
>> It was more than that because of co I
01:20:52
think was
01:20:52
>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:20:54
>> Five years. Yeah.
01:20:56
>> Um what's the biggest mistake you see
01:20:58
smart, motivated, world-class athletes
01:21:00
make?
01:21:01
Uh biggest mistake
01:21:09
I think often I think like the sometimes
01:21:13
they'll they change change things too
01:21:16
too frequently um change the support
01:21:18
team change the coaches change and so
01:21:20
when they you know I think world class
01:21:23
athletes often when things are going
01:21:24
wrong they kind of the the worst ones
01:21:28
the best ones will look in the mirror
01:21:29
the worst ones will look through the
01:21:30
window and look outside and then blame
01:21:33
other people for their poor
01:21:34
performances. Whereas I think the best
01:21:36
ones will always look at themselves and
01:21:38
try and change things. Whereas the worst
01:21:40
will look outward, you know, think, "Oh,
01:21:43
my psychologist isn't right. My training
01:21:45
routine's wrong. My nutrition is wrong."
01:21:48
And they they start changing everything.
01:21:50
And that's the
01:21:51
>> they're that's a recipe for disaster
01:21:53
because they're often a world- class
01:21:55
performer because of the things they've
01:21:56
done to get there. And small things
01:21:58
small things don't make a
01:22:00
>> small things like that can often unravel
01:22:02
them completely.
01:22:04
>> Yeah. It's kind of like um don't throw
01:22:05
up the baby with the bath water. Yeah.
01:22:07
And and maybe you hear some of these
01:22:09
books talking about the 1 percenters and
01:22:11
stuff, but I suppose you got to as you
01:22:13
mentioned before like the big rock
01:22:14
analogy. You got to focus on the big
01:22:16
rocks before you focus on the
01:22:17
>> but the the a those athletes are really
01:22:19
good at the 1 percenters but the they're
01:22:22
looking at those the small things within
01:22:24
their own you know like a bike position
01:22:26
or a helmet you know that's what I think
01:22:28
of 1enters but those other those other
01:22:30
parts are so important to keep
01:22:32
consistent
01:22:33
>> because they take I mean especially
01:22:34
those relationships they take time to
01:22:36
build
01:22:36
>> and you basically starting from scratch
01:22:38
again.
01:22:40
>> So for you these days what does what
01:22:41
does a great day look like? What's a
01:22:43
great day?
01:22:44
>> A great day would be a bit of training,
01:22:46
time with my family, and bit of work to
01:22:49
be honest.
01:22:51
>> I know. I I really enjoy my work. So, I
01:22:54
really enjoy it. I like
01:22:55
>> You got to You spend so much of your
01:22:57
life working, eh? You You got to love
01:22:58
it. You have to love it.
01:22:59
>> Yeah, I love it. Like, I don't like
01:23:02
people I was I was at my take had my son
01:23:04
athletics and I was talking to talking
01:23:06
to one of the dads about um you know,
01:23:09
did he had time off and oh yeah, you
01:23:11
know, he's back to work and said, "Do
01:23:12
you?" I said, "No, well, I didn't really
01:23:13
take any time off because I actually I I
01:23:16
can't I can't not do what my work, you
01:23:19
know. I really I really enjoy and it's
01:23:22
it's quite diverse as well. I do a lot
01:23:24
of different stuff, so I have a it's all
01:23:26
in the sports realm, but there's lots of
01:23:27
different things that I do get involved
01:23:29
in. So, it's always exciting. I mean, I
01:23:30
was at last last week I was at um the
01:23:33
Sydney Swans, for example."
01:23:35
>> Wow.
01:23:35
>> You know, doing some work with them and
01:23:36
it's just I was at the Gold Coast Suns
01:23:38
AFL team after that and it's it's just
01:23:40
cool. It's really good. And I really
01:23:42
enjoy enjoy those that my work. So I
01:23:46
can't complain with that. If I can get
01:23:48
those three things done, brilliant.
01:23:49
>> Do you do you ever ever feel sort of um
01:23:51
starruck or in awe?
01:23:53
>> No, I don't. I don't. So the I always
01:23:56
tell this story, one of the one of the
01:23:58
star struck moments I've had was I I
01:24:02
made the top two. So, and I got flown
01:24:04
out to Oklahoma City Thunder for the I
01:24:06
got nearly we got a job with Oklahoma
01:24:08
City Thunder as a sport scientist and
01:24:10
they flew me out and Kate um at the time
01:24:14
uh to do the interviews and you know and
01:24:18
I met Kevin Durant, I met Stephen Adams,
01:24:20
I met and then and I was I was on the
01:24:22
court with um Stephen Curry doing his on
01:24:26
the court literally as close as we are
01:24:27
to each other now watching him do his
01:24:29
warm-up routine. So that was and then I
01:24:31
was in the back with um Russell
01:24:32
Westbrook doing his warm up with his
01:24:34
trainer and stuff. So that was pretty
01:24:36
starruck, but that was the only time.
01:24:39
>> Oh, come on. That's the most that's out
01:24:41
of it. That's crazy.
01:24:42
>> Yeah, it's crazy. That was crazy. I
01:24:43
didn't get the job, but I think it was
01:24:45
for a good I think it was a blessing
01:24:47
really. But um
01:24:48
>> why
01:24:49
>> they I think they chose Well, they they
01:24:51
said that the other guy had more
01:24:52
experience working in the US than me, so
01:24:55
>> can't argue with that. Did you um did
01:24:57
your bro out with Steven Adams over the
01:24:59
>> No, I I just met him, you know, shook
01:25:00
his hand in the in the um you know, the
01:25:03
the sports director said he's from New
01:25:04
Zealand and he was like
01:25:08
I'm just so intrigued by him. E I saw
01:25:10
some stuff online last week about him
01:25:12
sleeping on a mattress on the floor in
01:25:14
his house despite earning like 50 or 60
01:25:16
million a year. Like he's just such a
01:25:18
basic
01:25:19
>> I don't know Spartans sort of existence.
01:25:21
He's just like has like no care or
01:25:24
desire for material goods.
01:25:26
>> But it's funny like I mean I've been
01:25:28
involved around top top sports people so
01:25:30
much
01:25:32
>> all the time. So you kind of just kind
01:25:34
of just gets becomes the norm.
01:25:37
>> It just just really does. So
01:25:39
>> yeah. You dropped some other names. So
01:25:41
team New Zealand. What did you do with
01:25:42
team New Zealand?
01:25:43
>> I was head of performance.
01:25:44
>> Right. So you were dealing with the
01:25:45
Cycl.
01:25:46
>> No, it wasn't Cyclones. It was the
01:25:48
Grinder. So it was the it was for the
01:25:49
campaign that um that we were here when
01:25:53
it was here the one during that COVID
01:25:55
period. Yeah. So I was the head of
01:25:56
performance there with my colleague Adam
01:25:58
Story who so it was me and him. He was
01:26:00
leading the conditioning I was leading
01:26:02
the kind of the endurance side.
01:26:04
>> So we it was really good though. It was
01:26:07
very different though. I think from my
01:26:10
own experiences with other sports you
01:26:12
know like kayak with like rowing the
01:26:14
training is everything. So this such a
01:26:17
focus is that we get the training right.
01:26:18
This is the priority. Whereas when you
01:26:20
work for something like team New
01:26:21
Zealand, it's like
01:26:24
>> they'll get the training done when they
01:26:25
need to get it done. You know, let's
01:26:28
focus on getting the boat faster at
01:26:30
first. But it's it's true. I mean, of
01:26:32
course, the boat's making the biggest
01:26:33
difference, but it was
01:26:34
>> So the training is like the 1enter.
01:26:36
>> Yeah, it is. Exactly. It's the training
01:26:38
is making a small a small part of the
01:26:41
bigger picture. Whereas you I mean you
01:26:44
can have the fittest fastest grinders in
01:26:45
the world,
01:26:46
>> but if you haven't got a fast boat, it's
01:26:48
not going to do anything, is it?
01:26:49
>> So So that was a It was interesting. It
01:26:51
was good though. I It was a good um good
01:26:53
experience, that's for sure.
01:26:54
>> Yeah. And we won. So
01:26:56
>> what are what are some uh Yeah. Who are
01:26:58
some of the other teams or athletes that
01:26:59
you've worked with?
01:27:00
>> Um who to think now I'm trying to think
01:27:03
of some other ones. Um, I think that
01:27:06
would be the the main one. They're
01:27:08
they're the main ones in New Zealand. I
01:27:10
mean, I'm starting to do a little bit
01:27:11
more with some teams in Australia just
01:27:14
through um because I'm part head of
01:27:16
research for a micronutrition company
01:27:19
called Pillar who we do like Amiggas um
01:27:23
um so like your creatine all those sorts
01:27:24
of things and we we sponsor some of
01:27:27
those teams and as part of that I go in
01:27:29
and help them with some of their
01:27:30
readiness to train and their training
01:27:31
regime. So that's and that's been
01:27:33
awesome. I've been really enjoying that
01:27:34
because it gives me the access to that
01:27:36
high performance and the facilities. Oh
01:27:38
my Sydney Swans facilities
01:27:40
>> out of this world.
01:27:41
>> It's I mean it's it's like compared to
01:27:44
like Olympic sports when you go into
01:27:45
those professional sports and it was the
01:27:47
same at Oklahoma City Thunder their
01:27:49
facilities they had like a they had a
01:27:51
person in their facility one to just do
01:27:54
haircuts and the other one just to
01:27:57
style their trainers. They had like a
01:27:59
trainer buffer. The guy is there's two
01:28:01
things that the basketball players care
01:28:02
about is haircuts and trainers. So we,
01:28:04
you know, we don't want them leaving to
01:28:05
go and get those things sorted. So they
01:28:07
have them at the facility.
01:28:08
>> It's a different world, isn't it?
01:28:09
>> Yeah. It's crazy.
01:28:10
>> It's crazy.
01:28:11
>> Hey, um I've got uh a set of questions
01:28:13
here called questions for everyone. And
01:28:15
some of these I outsourced from
01:28:16
Instagram and some of them are just for
01:28:18
my own curiosity. Um so for everyday
01:28:21
people who just want to feel better,
01:28:22
what matters more than anything else in
01:28:24
health and fitness?
01:28:27
>> I'd say diet. M
01:28:29
>> yeah I think I think diet is the the
01:28:32
main lever you can pull um because
01:28:35
because it's something that you do every
01:28:36
day right and it's has such a massive
01:28:38
implication on how you feel and the the
01:28:41
life you lead and and I think you can
01:28:44
you can pull three levers in terms of
01:28:45
diet but I think you should either like
01:28:47
restrict restrict like the calories so
01:28:49
you can eat less or you can just
01:28:51
restrict the types of food you eat or
01:28:53
you can restrict the time that you eat
01:28:54
you know it's actually a pet thing this
01:28:56
is he talks about that is and I I think
01:28:58
everyone should always pull on one of
01:29:00
those levers during their life. Unless
01:29:01
you're an athlete, you can probably get
01:29:02
away with not. But I think, you know,
01:29:04
those those three things is that I
01:29:06
always consider that you if you can if
01:29:08
you can just be restrictive over the
01:29:11
types of food you're eating, keeping
01:29:12
them whole foods, I think that that well
01:29:13
that will have the biggest impact on how
01:29:15
you feel for sure
01:29:16
>> because it's such a it's such a prime
01:29:18
prime part of it. And you know, eat,
01:29:21
sleep, move. I know that's three things,
01:29:23
but you'd be you'd be surprised at how
01:29:27
little you need to do to feel to get a
01:29:31
massive cardiorespiratory benefit. And
01:29:33
that can be so small like uh you know
01:29:35
the difference between doing 0 minutes
01:29:37
and 10 minutes of running is huge. You
01:29:40
10-minute run is massive compared to 10
01:29:42
to 20 minutes not that much but 0 to 10
01:29:45
big difference.
01:29:46
>> Yeah. So,
01:29:48
>> what's one health myth you see on a
01:29:50
regular p um you see regular people
01:29:52
falling for even though the evidence
01:29:54
says otherwise?
01:29:55
>> Fourth.
01:29:56
>> That's a tough one, isn't it?
01:29:57
>> That's a very tough one. One health
01:29:59
myth. Let me I'll have to have a time.
01:30:01
Can we cut then while I think about it
01:30:03
and then we go back into if you got
01:30:04
nothing we can we can just move.
01:30:06
>> No, I'll definitely I'll definitely have
01:30:07
one. Let me have a think for a moment. A
01:30:09
health myth.
01:30:13
I think sometimes like um
01:30:16
I think one myth around protein
01:30:18
restriction is definitely a myth. I
01:30:21
think like you know with the uh damage
01:30:24
you know too much protein can be
01:30:25
damaging you can't process it. I think I
01:30:27
think protein should be the main thing
01:30:30
that people should mainly focus on. Um
01:30:33
yeah I think that would be
01:30:35
really the main one. I think another one
01:30:37
would be running is bad for your knees.
01:30:39
Not true. I often hear that.
01:30:43
My my doctor did once tell me that it
01:30:45
was bad for me to run more than 5k. So
01:30:47
that's also not good. Um but I think uh
01:30:51
yeah, I think the that old mot that
01:30:54
something is better than nothing. So you
01:30:55
just got to do a little bit of little
01:30:57
bit of something. And I think you know
01:30:59
you just do I think that that would be
01:31:01
the I know that's not now a myth
01:31:03
anymore, but that's what I would I was
01:31:05
thinking.
01:31:05
>> Well, and I love what you said before
01:31:07
like eat, sleep, move. It's it's bloody
01:31:09
great. So, um yeah, eat well, do a
01:31:11
little bit of movement, sleep well, and
01:31:13
um you're taking those boxes.
01:31:14
>> It's everything. So, sounds so simple,
01:31:16
right? But
01:31:17
>> I think simple is good. The the more
01:31:19
simple message is, I think, the more
01:31:20
effective it is in a lot of ways.
01:31:21
>> Yeah. But if you can, it doesn't have to
01:31:23
be it doesn't have to be crazy amounts
01:31:25
of movement. You don't have to be
01:31:26
training for high rocks. Just a If you
01:31:27
can do those three things every day,
01:31:29
>> you'll be you'll be pretty good.
01:31:32
>> Yeah. How should weekend warriors
01:31:34
actually be training if their goal is
01:31:35
longevity and not not not even Yeah.
01:31:37
finisher medals or events.
01:31:39
>> Yeah. Well, you Well,
01:31:42
>> was your doctor right in that account?
01:31:43
Like 5ks, that's enough to run.
01:31:45
>> No. No.
01:31:46
>> Definitely not. I think just saying I
01:31:48
think she was saying it was actually
01:31:49
actively bad for my health. But um but I
01:31:53
think it Well, firstly, I mean, I feel
01:31:55
like I feel like a bit of a broken
01:31:57
record, but it does come back to that
01:31:58
consistency component is that you have
01:32:00
to choose an activity that you
01:32:05
>> that you can do consistently. So you
01:32:07
have to choose something that you enjoy
01:32:08
doing. So if you're if you hate running,
01:32:11
do not choose that activity for the
01:32:13
thing that's gonna that's going to be
01:32:15
making making the difference. So but I
01:32:18
think like when you talk about
01:32:19
well-being and longevity, I think like
01:32:22
aerobic fitness is one, you know, so
01:32:24
that's might be some easy endurance with
01:32:27
some maybe some faster high intensity
01:32:29
and then your your strength and muscle
01:32:30
mass will be the other component. And
01:32:33
that's how I would be petitioning my
01:32:35
week for for a like a longevity app. And
01:32:38
we're actually working with a company at
01:32:39
the moment called Kyora who's just um
01:32:42
we're just building an app that's very
01:32:44
much based around this, which is an app
01:32:46
very, you know, a very simple eat,
01:32:48
sleep, move nutrition, but the training
01:32:51
is based around week, you know, weekend
01:32:53
warriors and people who just want to
01:32:55
have a plan that doesn't mean that they
01:32:58
um it's not complicated and it's more
01:33:01
based around longevity and wellbeing. So
01:33:02
it's really simple and that will be you
01:33:04
know we you will have some focuses on a
01:33:06
sport if you want that to be but it can
01:33:08
just be a well-being training plan which
01:33:11
will consist of some aerobic endurance
01:33:14
and some strength and those are the the
01:33:16
things you really need to
01:33:18
>> take care of as well.
01:33:19
>> That app that you're talking about might
01:33:21
tie in with um the next question or it
01:33:23
might not. What is a realistic training
01:33:25
structure for someone with a job,
01:33:26
family, and limited recovery time?
01:33:29
>> Does that tie with the app?
01:33:31
>> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because at the
01:33:33
start of the app, we we give timings,
01:33:36
you know, so that that you would put in
01:33:38
how much time you have available to
01:33:40
train, right? So, but I think an hour a
01:33:45
day is more than enough. So, that is a
01:33:48
lot of training for most people. That's
01:33:49
more than enough. So, but I think if you
01:33:51
can do like if you can set aside 30
01:33:53
minutes a day, you've got you can do a
01:33:56
lot you can do a lot of great training
01:33:58
and stuff for your health in that. Yeah,
01:34:01
it's so easy.
01:34:02
>> And I if you can't do that for yourself,
01:34:04
there's something wrong. That's like 2%
01:34:05
of your day.
01:34:06
>> No. Yeah, exactly. But it's about being
01:34:08
But if you can do that seven days of the
01:34:10
week, amazing, man. Do an hour even
01:34:12
better.
01:34:13
>> But um yeah, I mean, but but if you're
01:34:15
doing that sort of thing, provided
01:34:18
you're not doing
01:34:20
like an F45 maximal like really hard
01:34:23
training every single day, you'll be
01:34:25
fine. You just need to the golden rule
01:34:28
of of training is you you want to and it
01:34:31
actually comes back to heart rate
01:34:32
variability because when we talked about
01:34:34
that with HIV before and we talked about
01:34:36
the parasympathetic system and the and
01:34:38
the um and the sympathetic system. One
01:34:40
of the things that I found with my PhD
01:34:42
was you what you want is you want that
01:34:44
HRV to be high and you want it to be
01:34:47
reasonably stable. And what happens is
01:34:49
that if you do just high intensity
01:34:51
training, it'll, you know, you get that
01:34:53
really high sympathetic drive and your
01:34:55
HRV will gradually come down. But the
01:34:57
other side, low intensity training, it
01:34:59
pushes it up. So it bolsters your HRV,
01:35:02
which is why in endurance sports, we
01:35:04
often talk about this polarized method
01:35:05
of training, which is like most of your
01:35:07
training is done at a low intensity with
01:35:08
20%, so 80% of a low intensity, 20% at a
01:35:11
high intensity. And that's how everyone
01:35:13
should almost think about how they're
01:35:15
they're doing their weeks is that
01:35:16
they're doing Monday might be just
01:35:18
really easy aerobic keeping your heart
01:35:21
rate. You know, a good a good rule is
01:35:24
180 minus your age below that number.
01:35:26
So, you know, if you're 40, lower than
01:35:28
140 heart rate. Um, so you do one day
01:35:31
when it's really easy aerobic training.
01:35:33
The next day you might do something a
01:35:34
bit harder, which might be a combination
01:35:36
of strength and high intensity interval
01:35:38
training. Wednesday you go easy.
01:35:40
Thursday you do something harder. Friday
01:35:42
you go easy. Saturday you do something
01:35:44
harder. Sunday you go easy again. And
01:35:46
that's how you or even a full rest day.
01:35:48
Then you go back into Monday and you
01:35:50
kind of that's how you can cycle your
01:35:51
weeks. But the most important thing is
01:35:52
that you you separate the days. Hard
01:35:54
day, easy day, hard day, easy day.
01:35:57
>> And that 180 minus your age is actually
01:36:00
sounds really simple. It's called the
01:36:02
maximum aerobic fitness test. And it's
01:36:04
so it's really good for most people who
01:36:07
are doing who want to do basic aerobic
01:36:10
training. Get a Har monitor, wear it 180
01:36:12
minus your age, train below that, and
01:36:14
for many that could be walking easy or,
01:36:17
you know, might be easy biking, but it's
01:36:20
um really a really good basic measure.
01:36:23
>> What's your professional thought on um
01:36:25
wristwatches with um a built-in heart
01:36:27
rate monitor? Are they accurate enough?
01:36:30
>> Not. They're not I think they're getting
01:36:32
better, but I wouldn't trust I find them
01:36:35
typically okay cycling, not so good
01:36:37
running because of the the the movement.
01:36:39
Yeah.
01:36:40
>> Uh, what should people in their 30s,
01:36:43
40s, and 50s be doing now that their
01:36:45
future self will thank them for?
01:36:46
>> I feel like you almost covered that
01:36:48
before. Like half an hour a day, an hour
01:36:49
a day, whatever.
01:36:50
>> Strength training. Strength training.
01:36:52
Strength training, protein intake, I
01:36:54
think would be the
01:36:55
>> the main, especially as you get 30, 30
01:36:57
to 40. I mean, after 40 in particular, I
01:37:01
mean, I turned 42 and I managed to put
01:37:03
on quite a bit of muscle. So, it can be
01:37:05
done.
01:37:06
>> Yeah. I was going to call you out on
01:37:07
that cuz you you weren't doing any
01:37:08
strength training in your 30s, were you?
01:37:10
Back then you couldn't do a pool.
01:37:11
>> No, I wasn't. No, I wasn't at all. I was
01:37:12
doing just purely eye man. In fact, in
01:37:15
2018, I did almost no strength training
01:37:17
at all. But I still managed okay. But um
01:37:21
but since then I've managed to put on
01:37:25
about 10 kilos of muscle.
01:37:27
>> Yeah, I think I think becomes becomes
01:37:29
harder to but it's still if if you're
01:37:31
gonna you know the grass grows where you
01:37:32
water it. So if you're gonna lift
01:37:33
weights, you're definitely going to put
01:37:34
on some muscle, aren't you?
01:37:35
>> You will. uh provided you have it's not
01:37:38
actually it's not actually strictly
01:37:40
true. Um if you just lifted weights and
01:37:42
you didn't eat a lot had minimal protein
01:37:44
and you did a lot of endurance training
01:37:45
you wouldn't put any weight not muscle.
01:37:48
Um but if you if you the environment has
01:37:50
to be right so you have to be a little
01:37:53
bit of a calorie surplus. You have to
01:37:54
have the protein available for to you
01:37:56
and then yeah you could um then you you
01:37:58
will likely put on some weight.
01:38:00
>> Yeah. I think I think one of the things
01:38:01
that I found was that I was doing very
01:38:03
little endurance training in the early
01:38:04
parts when I was trying to put on more
01:38:06
more size and I think that was that was
01:38:09
probably a key point. I didn't really
01:38:11
enjoy it very much though.
01:38:14
>> It's it's funny, isn't it? Like um you
01:38:16
go to a marathon event and you see some
01:38:17
good marathon runners and a lot of them
01:38:18
look sick. Um but iron Iron Man
01:38:21
athletes, they they tend to look a bit
01:38:23
healthier,
01:38:23
>> a little bit more.
01:38:24
>> Were you quite a scrawny Iron Man?
01:38:26
>> Um
01:38:27
it varied. I wouldn't No, I wasn't as
01:38:29
scrawny as some of the scrawnier ones.
01:38:31
Um, but I I was definitely scrawnier
01:38:34
than I am now for sure. And I'm not and
01:38:37
I'm not and even if I go to a high
01:38:38
rocks, I'm actually one of the smaller
01:38:40
high rocks athletes still.
01:38:41
>> There's much bigger guys than me. But I
01:38:43
think that's I mean it helps. I mean, at
01:38:45
the moment I'm still like a runner
01:38:46
bumbling through the stations. So,
01:38:50
>> do wearables actually help everyday
01:38:52
athletes or do they just create anxiety?
01:38:54
>> Definitely help. I'm a massive believer
01:38:56
in wearables, but I mean, you're talking
01:38:58
to the HRV man as well, so I realize I
01:39:01
come with my biases, right? But um I
01:39:03
think I think the I often get so many
01:39:06
questions about wearables, you know,
01:39:07
what's the best whoop or blah blah blah
01:39:10
blah. But but they're all um they're all
01:39:13
in terms of the measurement of HRV,
01:39:15
they're all accurate, but it's the
01:39:17
interpretation and then what you do with
01:39:20
that, the prescription based on the
01:39:22
interpretation is is where we're we're
01:39:24
kind of not really there in that
01:39:26
wearable space yet. The the prescription
01:39:28
is not very good. Um, but I don't think
01:39:31
I think like that anxiety comes. Have
01:39:33
you heard of the Dunning Krueger effect?
01:39:35
>> No.
01:39:35
>> So the Dunning Krueger effect is like
01:39:37
the the measurement of like of your
01:39:40
knowledge, right? So you start off with
01:39:42
something and you don't know very much
01:39:43
about it and then and then you kind of
01:39:47
and it's and then you learn a little bit
01:39:49
and you think I know everything about
01:39:51
this you know and it's like and then
01:39:52
then those people who have learned a
01:39:54
little bit about heart rate variability
01:39:56
they start to get anxious about it and
01:39:57
they get oh my god what's happening now
01:39:59
you know and they get a low read and
01:40:00
they get anxious but then once you get
01:40:02
over the other side and you get to like
01:40:03
that expert knowledge you're like hang
01:40:05
on I don't really know that much about
01:40:06
this but that's okay you know and you're
01:40:08
kind of a bit more layer about it will
01:40:10
be what it'll
01:40:11
Um,
01:40:12
>> but I think that Dunny Krueger effect is
01:40:14
what happens with people in wearables is
01:40:15
that those people who don't know much
01:40:17
about it, they don't get that anxious
01:40:18
about it. Those ones who learn a little
01:40:21
bit about it to be dangerous, they're
01:40:23
the ones who get anxious about it. But
01:40:24
once you get to the other side, like
01:40:26
someone like me who's studied it and
01:40:28
done a PhD in it, I don't really get
01:40:30
anxious about it. But you want that
01:40:31
person to be controlling your your
01:40:33
prescription. That's the person. And you
01:40:34
don't want that person who's who knows a
01:40:36
little bit to be controlling your
01:40:37
prescription because they're they're
01:40:39
going to freak out because, you know,
01:40:41
they don't really understand what
01:40:42
they're looking at fully.
01:40:44
>> If someone listening wants to improve
01:40:46
their health by 20% in the next 3
01:40:48
months,
01:40:48
>> 20%. Jeez, that's a very specific.
01:40:51
>> What would you prioritize?
01:40:53
>> Um, or 10% 15% in certain percentage
01:40:57
here.
01:40:59
>> It depends on the person.
01:41:00
>> Yeah. But I mean it I mean I think it
01:41:03
does come back to the each sleep move
01:41:05
again.
01:41:06
>> That would be the the three things and
01:41:08
it depend and it would I'd look at the
01:41:09
person right what I would prioritize out
01:41:11
of those three is like if that person's
01:41:14
got you know they're they're really
01:41:16
they're doing well the training is okay
01:41:18
but the diet's terrible and the sleep's
01:41:19
good you're going to focus on the diet.
01:41:20
If the
01:41:21
>> if that person has a good diet is not
01:41:24
doing any exercise
01:41:26
sleep's okay you you know that's what
01:41:27
that's how I would do it personally. But
01:41:30
those three, they're the three levers
01:41:31
that you're going to always move, right?
01:41:33
Those three things.
01:41:35
>> Y
01:41:36
>> It's funny, isn't it? Because that
01:41:37
figure 20% um the more unfit someone is,
01:41:40
the more achievable that would be.
01:41:41
Whereas there's no way you could like
01:41:43
improve yourself 20% in 3 months.
01:41:45
>> No, there's no way. I mean, when you're
01:41:47
talking with Olympians, you're talking
01:41:49
they might improve themselves by 2% over
01:41:52
four years.
01:41:53
>> Yeah.
01:41:53
>> And big, you know, that could be enough
01:41:56
though, those small marginal gains.
01:41:59
Yeah.
01:42:00
>> What's one habit that gives the biggest
01:42:01
return on investment for physical and
01:42:03
mental health?
01:42:06
>> Um, one habit I think exercise.
01:42:11
>> I mean, everyone's different. I mean, I
01:42:14
I think about myself personally,
01:42:17
I'm I'm a bit I need I need exercise in
01:42:20
my day to I always feel like and and
01:42:23
you're you'll I would think you're the
01:42:25
same is that once I have that exercise
01:42:27
portion tackled,
01:42:29
>> I will everything else will go a little
01:42:31
bit better in my day and it'll be it'll
01:42:32
be it'll be I I feel like that part is
01:42:36
so important for everything else to
01:42:37
follow follow through. And and I I once
01:42:41
read this article and it's something
01:42:43
that I took.
01:42:45
It was it was a CEO guy and he says and
01:42:47
he was his argument says why you should
01:42:48
always prioritize your training and his
01:42:51
argument was that if you don't
01:42:53
prioritize your training you won't do it
01:42:57
because
01:42:58
the work and the other bits will always
01:43:00
get done like your family commitments
01:43:02
and your work will always get done but
01:43:03
if you don't prioritize your training
01:43:04
that will always fall apart but the
01:43:06
other parts will always happen. you
01:43:08
know, you'll always get the work done.
01:43:09
You'll always do those small parts
01:43:10
because they have to get done. And I
01:43:12
think and that's the way I kind of I
01:43:14
always try and do my training first
01:43:15
thing in the morning, get it done, and
01:43:17
then the rest of the parts will come on.
01:43:19
And that's for my mental well-being.
01:43:21
That's so important because
01:43:22
>> I just need it.
01:43:24
>> That space.
01:43:25
>> Yeah. When was the last time you had
01:43:26
like two or three or four consecutive
01:43:29
days without movement?
01:43:31
>> Was it illness? Broken bone?
01:43:33
>> Yeah. Actually, influ influenza.
01:43:35
>> Influenza.
01:43:36
>> Influenza. Yeah. That really got me.
01:43:38
That was um good story on that is that
01:43:41
so I did influenza. Oh, sorry. I didn't
01:43:43
do influenza. I did high rocks in
01:43:45
Brisbane and I woke up that morning and
01:43:47
my HRV was down and I and and I had a
01:43:50
bad night's sleep, but you know how you
01:43:51
kind of know that it's not quite
01:43:54
it wasn't like a bad night's sleep
01:43:56
before a race. I felt like I was a bit
01:43:57
off. So I called Kate and I'm like I'm
01:44:00
feeling a bit off here. Um but anyway, I
01:44:03
did the race anyway. It was my first
01:44:05
ever hierro. So, I was there in
01:44:06
Brisbane. I did the race and um and I
01:44:09
finished the race and I'm sat around I'm
01:44:10
in the Brisbane sun and I'm like just
01:44:12
outside with a hoodie on shivering.
01:44:15
Can't stop shivering, like really bad
01:44:16
shivering. And I I went I said, "I'm
01:44:19
going to have to see my friend was there
01:44:20
and he went mate, you do not look good.
01:44:22
You're going to going to have to see the
01:44:23
medic." So, I went to see the medics and
01:44:24
I had a temperature of 39° but I was
01:44:26
shivering like crazy and um yeah, so I
01:44:30
did this race with influenza. I managed
01:44:32
to get myself back to New Zealand
01:44:33
somehow spreading my lergie all through
01:44:35
the airport all over the plane. I just
01:44:38
the poor the poor person sat next to me.
01:44:42
Is
01:44:42
>> this preco postco?
01:44:43
>> It's postco.
01:44:46
>> Wow.
01:44:47
>> Yeah. So this was um so I managed to get
01:44:49
myself home but then I um but then I was
01:44:53
I was so sick like for 5 days I I was
01:44:56
like literally bed couch bed couch bed
01:44:58
couch. But that was the last time I But
01:45:00
probably wouldn't have been that bad if
01:45:02
I didn't do a high rocks with influenza
01:45:04
to be honest. So
01:45:05
>> I I yeah I I love it. Like when I first
01:45:08
started running, I'd um say go to Fiji
01:45:10
for a holiday and I would enjoy having a
01:45:12
week without it. Now uh when I go away
01:45:14
like the fitness and movement, it's just
01:45:15
it's part of my holiday because I just
01:45:17
don't feel complete without it.
01:45:19
>> Yeah.
01:45:19
>> Um Yeah. I tell people you got to get to
01:45:22
the point where it doesn't feel like a
01:45:23
chore anymore. It just becomes part of
01:45:24
your being.
01:45:25
>> Exactly. It's just totally It's like
01:45:27
brushing your teeth, right? It's just so
01:45:29
normal to uh to get out and and do
01:45:32
something.
01:45:33
>> I mean, I I listen I was listening to
01:45:36
>> uh was it you know Matthew Mahon? Yeah.
01:45:39
And he was saying that you know his
01:45:42
>> when he goes on holiday he does two
01:45:44
things. He exercises and writes cuz he
01:45:46
says that's what he does you know that's
01:45:48
just the way he goes. And I'm the same
01:45:50
is and as as are you that when I go away
01:45:53
I'll still do something.
01:45:55
>> Yeah. I enjoy it. What advice do you
01:45:58
give to people who feel like they've
01:45:59
left it too late?
01:46:02
>> Um to do what? To do to do anything to
01:46:05
do some exercise or
01:46:07
>> Yeah, probably to do some exercise.
01:46:09
>> Yeah, I think
01:46:10
>> is it okay? Okay, let's make it marathon
01:46:13
specific. Is it ever too late? Like I'm
01:46:14
thinking about my mom. She's in her 70s,
01:46:16
so she's been a lifelong runner. She can
01:46:17
still run. If someone was 70 and they
01:46:20
decided to run one, could they?
01:46:21
>> I think that would be quite difficult.
01:46:23
But
01:46:24
>> I think it's never too late to
01:46:27
>> It depends what you're trying to do. I
01:46:29
think there's always small things you
01:46:30
can do to to achieve a goal. You just
01:46:32
have to that goal might have to be a
01:46:35
little bit smaller, but if you're 70
01:46:37
maybe like walk a kilometer or
01:46:39
something, you know, there something's
01:46:42
better than nothing as I said before. So
01:46:43
if you can you have to just set the goal
01:46:45
setting is so important that you set the
01:46:47
goal correctly. But I don't think it's
01:46:49
ever too late to do
01:46:50
>> something. I mean, it definitely gets
01:46:52
harder, but the goals have to be be
01:46:55
different. I I was reading a paper the
01:46:57
other day that was looking at like
01:46:59
weight training in 70 year olds and um
01:47:03
and they put them through a weight
01:47:04
training routine and it's really hard
01:47:06
for them to make mus to gain muscle
01:47:08
mass, but then they put them through a
01:47:09
weight train a weight training routine
01:47:11
with adequate protein and they actually
01:47:13
gain some muscle. So even at that age,
01:47:16
so it's it is never too late, but it's
01:47:19
just a bit harder. If you're a young
01:47:20
20year-old and you give them weight
01:47:22
training, they could probably not have
01:47:23
that much protein and not have and have
01:47:25
a bad diet and still put on muscle. But
01:47:27
as you get older, you have to be a
01:47:30
little bit more down, you know, have
01:47:33
things in tune with what you're trying
01:47:35
to achieve and be a bit more scientific,
01:47:37
but it's going to be harder for sure.
01:47:39
>> Yeah. And there's Yeah. Train harder,
01:47:41
not smarter. I I mean, yeah, I used to
01:47:43
be able to run with hangovers in my 20s
01:47:45
and get like long training runs, um,
01:47:47
smashed out with pretty decent
01:47:48
hangovers. Couldn't dream of doing that
01:47:50
now.
01:47:50
>> No. No.
01:47:51
>> Um, so you just have to accept your
01:47:52
limitations, I think, as you get a bit
01:47:54
older.
01:47:54
>> Oh, yeah. When when I was at university,
01:47:56
we used to we would be out and then we'd
01:47:59
be in the pool at 5:00 in the morning
01:48:00
after the night before and like, you
01:48:02
know, but I just I couldn't imagine
01:48:04
doing that now.
01:48:05
>> This saying youth is wasted on the
01:48:07
young.
01:48:08
>> It really is.
01:48:08
>> Yeah, it' be really hard. Um, hey,
01:48:11
thanks so much for answering those.
01:48:12
They're bloody great and I'm sure
01:48:13
there's a lot of people that are going
01:48:14
to get a lot out of them. Yeah, so
01:48:16
>> Oh, um, you met uh my my ex and my
01:48:19
business partner JJ on the way in.
01:48:21
>> She um she she hates exercise or she
01:48:25
says she hates exercise. She's been on
01:48:27
ancestry.com and she's found out she's
01:48:29
got the
01:48:30
something called there's a name for it,
01:48:32
like a non-athletic gene.
01:48:35
>> That's
01:48:36
interesting. So she's like, "Dom, you
01:48:38
like running cuz you've got the sprinter
01:48:40
gene, but I've got the
01:48:41
>> gene. I never knew that was a thing."
01:48:44
>> So she's like, "It's it's not my fault I
01:48:46
hate exercise. It's a genetic thing."
01:48:48
What would you say to someone like her?
01:48:50
>> Um, some someone that's completely
01:48:51
inactive.
01:48:53
>> So So I say this because like if you
01:48:56
ever met if you ever met my wife Kate,
01:48:58
most people think she's like mega
01:48:59
athletic and she doesn't do that much.
01:49:01
She but she looks really athletic, but
01:49:03
she she controls her diet. She has a
01:49:05
very good diet.
01:49:06
A thing that I always tell people who
01:49:08
really hate exercising, sauna,
01:49:12
>> mimics the benefits of
01:49:13
>> mimics the benefits of cardio
01:49:14
cardiorespiratory exercise. And there's
01:49:16
lots of benefits to it. So it's the best
01:49:18
thing. I just if you really don't like
01:49:21
exercising, if you can sauna five times
01:49:23
a week, you have to do it quite
01:49:24
regularly. 20 to 30 minutes, 80 to 90°,
01:49:27
it's hard. It's not, you know, you have
01:49:28
to make it has to be unpleasantish for
01:49:31
at least the last last 10 minutes. Big
01:49:34
benefits. So that's what I would always
01:49:36
recommend to those people. I mean the
01:49:38
diet side, get that sorted. But if you
01:49:40
can get the diet and do your sauna, it's
01:49:42
a it's a good step forward if you really
01:49:43
don't like exercising.
01:49:45
>> Yeah. Even if you've got the non
01:49:47
athletic gene,
01:49:48
>> I feel like I've got JJ in my ear now
01:49:49
saying, "Yeah, but I hate the heat."
01:49:51
>> Yeah.
01:49:52
>> Cold water immersion.
01:49:55
>> I I started um sawing about 18 months
01:49:57
ago just after um reading and reading so
01:50:00
much about the health benefits. It's
01:50:01
been a game changer. I love it. So, we I
01:50:04
have a sauna. I have a sauna and an ice
01:50:06
bath at home. Well, obviously me and Art
01:50:07
were like two peas in a pod and we're
01:50:09
just like, "Oh, let's go around in the
01:50:10
sauna."
01:50:12
>> But, um, yeah, I we So, me and we have a
01:50:14
good routine is that we do, you know, we
01:50:16
get the kids down and we go in the sauna
01:50:18
every night, 20 minutes, and it's it's
01:50:20
great for sleep, good for a little
01:50:21
routine. It's brilliant. So,
01:50:24
>> Oh, you got a little home setup?
01:50:25
>> Yeah.
01:50:26
>> Oh, it's probably a good way to like um
01:50:28
just like de-stress and talk about your
01:50:30
day and communicate as a couple. And
01:50:32
it's a great way to connect because you
01:50:34
sit in the sauna. We don't have our
01:50:35
phones in there of course and you know
01:50:37
you just chat and
01:50:38
>> and it's um sometimes we just it's too
01:50:41
hot to chat so we suffering but um but
01:50:44
it's uh it's really good. I recommend
01:50:47
it. I mean if obviously it's a bit of a
01:50:49
privilege to have a sauna in your house
01:50:51
but
01:50:52
>> if if you really can't it's if you
01:50:54
really don't like exercising most people
01:50:56
can get their head around that. M oh
01:50:59
yeah it it is a privilege but the um the
01:51:01
entry level it's fairly fairly
01:51:02
affordable like you can get a little um
01:51:04
a little like two-seater Oslo or
01:51:06
something couple of
01:51:07
>> grand you can you have to be careful
01:51:09
with like the infrared sauners versus
01:51:11
the finished sauners so I wouldn't you
01:51:13
generally don't get this so infrared has
01:51:16
its benefits for sure there's there's
01:51:18
there are benefits from infrared in
01:51:20
itself but the some of those
01:51:22
cardiovascular benefits come from being
01:51:26
very hot and You can't typically get
01:51:28
those infrared sauna hot enough
01:51:30
>> to really elicit that that same
01:51:33
response. So, and the finished sauners
01:51:35
are a little bit more expensive than the
01:51:38
um
01:51:39
>> than the infrared sauners cuz the the
01:51:40
ones in a box I think typically are
01:51:42
infrared.
01:51:43
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The home ones. Well,
01:51:45
for anyone that's um that's uh in
01:51:47
central Oakland that wants to um use a
01:51:49
sauna, uh join the Hearn Bay Racket
01:51:51
Club. That's where I go. It's got um
01:51:53
it's the best.
01:51:54
>> It is so hot. Um I was I was sit up
01:51:57
there on the the top shelf. First 5
01:51:58
minutes I'm good. After 5 minutes I've
01:52:00
got my head down. I'm a broken man.
01:52:02
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's lots of
01:52:04
different So there's ways I always when
01:52:06
I talk to athletes about sauna there's I
01:52:09
always say there's like different
01:52:10
training zones of sauna. So you could go
01:52:12
like an entry level is you go in in the
01:52:16
morning not having exercise before
01:52:19
taking some cold water or even have a
01:52:21
cold shower before and going. But you
01:52:23
can make it harder and harder. So you
01:52:25
could if you go in like do your training
01:52:28
and then go in the sauna and don't drink
01:52:31
during really hard massive response
01:52:34
though. So there's different levels of
01:52:36
sauna that you can take to make it
01:52:39
harder or easier.
01:52:40
>> Why why would you not hydrate?
01:52:42
>> So there's a well it's more from an
01:52:44
acclamation response is that there's a
01:52:47
there's a bit more of an acclamation
01:52:48
response in terms of the ability to cope
01:52:50
with heat when you don't hydrate during
01:52:52
because it also makes it easier. So it's
01:52:54
sort of is the same it's it's the same
01:52:56
with training like training is a is
01:52:59
training is always a dose response
01:53:00
relationship. So if you train the more
01:53:02
you train
01:53:03
>> the faster you get you know or the more
01:53:05
you adapt right and it's the same with
01:53:06
sauna. So the more you stress the bigger
01:53:09
the adaptation. So if you make it the
01:53:11
harder it is like like really hot versus
01:53:14
when you've core temperature is already
01:53:15
high you've just exercised it makes it
01:53:17
much harder and then you'll get a bigger
01:53:18
response.
01:53:20
>> So brilliant.
01:53:21
>> Yeah.
01:53:21
>> Hey thanks for that. One more card. Home
01:53:23
stretch conclusion. We're at We're the
01:53:27
last 5ks of the Iron Man. How's it been?
01:53:30
You do you enjoy doing these podcasts?
01:53:31
>> I love them. Yeah. Yeah. I love talking
01:53:33
about this kind of thing.
01:53:34
>> Yeah. I You've been on quite a few. I've
01:53:37
listened to quite a few of them. Some of
01:53:38
them are very geeky. This one's probably
01:53:39
very base level for you. It hasn't been
01:53:41
too dumbed down.
01:53:42
>> No, I've enjoyed it. It's been more it's
01:53:44
been more personal than I'm you know
01:53:47
usually it's like lots of like academics
01:53:49
and studies and to the nitty-gritty but
01:53:52
it's cool
01:53:53
>> more about my experiences so that's
01:53:55
nice.
01:53:55
>> Yeah. How how do you personally define
01:53:57
success now compared to other stages of
01:54:00
your career?
01:54:01
>> Um how I I suppose I suppose what I mean
01:54:05
is um like you you know your goals are
01:54:07
sort of different now like you're not
01:54:08
chasing world records you know you're
01:54:10
not chasing podium finishes.
01:54:12
>> Yeah. I think you know when you become a
01:54:14
dad and you're a father I think I think
01:54:17
your your everything's around your kids
01:54:20
isn't it really for me it's like I'm
01:54:22
like success for me is trying to provide
01:54:24
the best life I possibly can for them
01:54:26
really um with that businesses and and
01:54:30
hoping and giving those opportunities
01:54:31
that you know I definitely don't want
01:54:33
them to live live like a money coddle
01:54:35
life with that spoil but I want them to
01:54:36
be able to have the opportunities that
01:54:38
they that they can have if if they're
01:54:41
available. So
01:54:42
>> I think that would be my idea of a of
01:54:44
success.
01:54:45
>> Not molly codle them but but also
01:54:47
protect them from Kelloggs and
01:54:50
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:54:51
>> Kelloggs in the big orange and yellow.
01:54:54
>> Exactly. But that's I think that's the I
01:54:55
think that would be the main things and
01:54:57
and
01:54:58
>> I obviously I think it's important that
01:55:00
everyone has their own personal
01:55:01
successes and I still have a lot to
01:55:02
achieve. I saw I I I really like goals
01:55:05
because I feel like a per a phys I have
01:55:08
business goals but a physical goal is
01:55:11
something is really sets my having that
01:55:14
in place sets up my other things really
01:55:16
well and I don't like not I'm such a
01:55:18
competitive person I don't like not
01:55:19
having competitions in my in my view
01:55:22
>> so um so I still have those those
01:55:24
personal goals
01:55:25
>> but um with the physical stuff who are
01:55:26
you comp are you competing against
01:55:28
yourself now or are you still trying to
01:55:29
compete against others so for example
01:55:31
Hierrox um which is your your you know
01:55:32
your thing at the moment. Uh are are you
01:55:35
trying to to win or are you trying to
01:55:37
you better the time that you did last
01:55:39
time?
01:55:39
>> Both. I mean I'm always booming the both
01:55:42
to go together, right? So I've not been
01:55:44
beaten yet in a high rocks in my age
01:55:45
group. So um I mean we broke the um me
01:55:49
and my partner, we broke the world
01:55:50
record for the over 40s in the doubles
01:55:53
in Melbourne.
01:55:54
>> Incredible.
01:55:55
>> So we uh we hopefully me and me and so
01:55:58
he's uh from Australia. We're going to
01:56:00
go to the World Championships and
01:56:01
hopefully win the World Championships in
01:56:03
the doubles in our age group. But I
01:56:04
mean, it's all about age groups now. I
01:56:06
mean, I wish I do kind of wish that I
01:56:07
was who knows. It's all hindsight's a
01:56:10
glorious thing, isn't it? But I always
01:56:12
think, oh, maybe I wish I discovered Hy
01:56:14
Rocks when I was a bit younger and it
01:56:15
was around because I do quite enjoy it.
01:56:18
But
01:56:19
>> you're so competitive. I I even I heard
01:56:21
you on another podcast and they they
01:56:23
introduced you as like a world a world
01:56:24
champion and you you interrupted them
01:56:26
and said age group age group.
01:56:28
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a bit of a
01:56:30
difference though. A group world
01:56:32
champion. Yeah.
01:56:34
>> Um, if you could go back Oh, you may
01:56:36
have even just answered that. Um, if you
01:56:38
could go back and give your younger self
01:56:39
one piece of advice, what would it be?
01:56:42
>> Um, is there anything you do
01:56:44
differently?
01:56:46
>> Not really. I think um
01:56:50
I think I wouldn't be I think I I think
01:56:53
I mean I I feel like I tried too hard in
01:56:58
my academics when I was really young and
01:57:00
I don't think it makes that much
01:57:01
difference to be honest.
01:57:03
>> What do you mean? Well, I I I think like
01:57:05
those early days of schooling, you can
01:57:08
just relax a bit more. And I I I really
01:57:10
That's
01:57:10
>> terrible advice. I I really I really
01:57:14
like got a bit
01:57:16
>> Yeah. a bit stressed out by like exams
01:57:18
and stuff like that. And um
01:57:19
>> Oh, you mean sort of like secondary
01:57:21
school age?
01:57:21
>> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think it gets
01:57:23
more important, but I think in the early
01:57:24
days, I think you can relax a bit more.
01:57:26
Just chill,
01:57:27
>> you know? Maybe. I don't know whe that's
01:57:29
good advice or not.
01:57:30
>> Yeah. I was pretty much the the same. I
01:57:32
was consumed. consumed by stress like
01:57:34
during the important exams here like
01:57:36
yeah it's called NCAA now it was called
01:57:38
school certificate when I was there
01:57:39
>> but you sort of think [ __ ] if if I don't
01:57:42
pass this my my world's over my world's
01:57:44
crumbling and you look back and it's
01:57:46
like chill
01:57:47
>> yeah exactly but I think maybe maybe
01:57:49
there's that but I think um
01:57:53
>> I listened to um I listened to your
01:57:54
podcast with the New Zealand's um David
01:57:57
Gogggins
01:57:58
>> oh Jamie Milam yeah you know and he was
01:58:01
he was a really good podcast, but I was
01:58:03
thinking, wow, like he's got such a good
01:58:05
backstory, you know, hard upbringing and
01:58:07
unfortunately I doesn't have any of
01:58:08
that. So
01:58:11
like privileged upbringing, nothing
01:58:12
nothing really. I had a, you know,
01:58:14
nothing really to shout about on that.
01:58:16
So
01:58:16
>> lovely parents love middle class.
01:58:18
>> Exactly. So but um
01:58:20
>> Well, but somehow you've managed to um
01:58:23
you find the the hunger or drive,
01:58:25
whatever you want to call it, to build
01:58:26
resilience.
01:58:27
>> Yeah. The the other people have it
01:58:29
forced upon them.
01:58:31
>> Yeah. I don't and I don't know where
01:58:32
that one comes from. I think like
01:58:35
>> I mean when we just we I mean I grew up
01:58:38
in Yorkshire and we were just got it
01:58:40
where the brownies are from too and it
01:58:42
was cold and we just exercised outside
01:58:45
and going amongst it you know and I
01:58:47
don't know don't know whether that was
01:58:49
part of it but I remember some pretty
01:58:50
cold bike rides
01:58:52
>> around Saddleworth Moore and whatnot and
01:58:54
um but yeah I it was a
01:58:59
I can't I can't really think of what
01:59:01
would be what I'm just I just I enjoy
01:59:03
competition though.
01:59:05
>> Yeah.
01:59:05
>> Yeah, I can tell.
01:59:06
>> Yeah,
01:59:06
>> I can tell. I don't think that'll ever
01:59:08
leave you.
01:59:08
>> No.
01:59:09
>> Um Yeah,
01:59:10
>> I see him. I see him in my boy now as
01:59:11
well. It's Can you
01:59:12
>> Yeah, definitely.
01:59:13
>> Yeah. How How does it make you feel? Do
01:59:14
you think Oh, like a sense of pride or
01:59:16
you think, "Oh,
01:59:17
>> I definitely I mean I want him to be I
01:59:19
want him to be
01:59:21
>> um competitive." Yeah. You know,
01:59:23
>> you I think it's uh I think it's a good
01:59:25
thing. So,
01:59:27
>> I think it's a good thing. Yeah. But
01:59:28
like I was talking about before with my
01:59:30
mom at the Paris Marathon, like her
01:59:32
getting upset at, you know, potentially
01:59:34
not breaking 5 hours. Uh I Yeah, I I
01:59:37
don't know. I suppose it's a good it's a
01:59:39
it's a there's two sides to it. Like
01:59:41
it's it's a good thing, but also
01:59:43
>> if you don't I just think but with that
01:59:45
com with that competitiveness comes it
01:59:47
comes drive, right? And it makes you
01:59:49
want to achieve certain it just means
01:59:52
you want to achieve more, you know? I
01:59:53
think it's important. So,
01:59:56
>> what do you think your best and worst
01:59:57
habits are?
01:59:58
>> Or if Kate was here, what would she say?
02:00:01
>> Have to ask her. Um, my my best habit is
02:00:06
um
02:00:08
consistency, I guess. I know routine.
02:00:11
I'm very routine person. I think is
02:00:13
routine a habit.
02:00:14
>> Is being routine a habit?
02:00:16
>> Yeah. So, I'm very I'm very routine and
02:00:19
I think that helps with a lot of of um
02:00:23
of of stuff. My worst habit
02:00:29
probably too much exercise.
02:00:32
>> No sense there.
02:00:34
>> I do think like I do think I do feel
02:00:37
like I'm a I do have that like mild
02:00:39
endurance addiction. I think it is a you
02:00:41
know I really need it. So maybe that's
02:00:44
also can be a a bad thing in some
02:00:46
respects.
02:00:47
>> I don't know. I think it's a good
02:00:48
addiction. It's like we talked about at
02:00:49
the very beginning about the word
02:00:50
obsessed.
02:00:51
>> Um yeah, obsessed and addiction. They're
02:00:54
sort of in the same
02:00:55
>> same sort of ecosystem. They can be good
02:00:57
things, I think.
02:00:58
>> For sure.
02:00:59
>> Um what are you most afraid of?
02:01:02
>> The future.
02:01:04
I mean I mean I wouldn't say I'm afraid
02:01:07
of the future, but I think like I was I
02:01:08
was saying this I was saying the other I
02:01:10
was talking to my friend the other day
02:01:11
about this and and I think like if if
02:01:15
life wasn't now and you knew this this
02:01:17
was life for the rest of your your days,
02:01:19
it's great, right? But you you just
02:01:21
never know what's around the corner. I
02:01:23
think you know who knows. But I think
02:01:25
that's uh that would be it's not really
02:01:29
a true fear.
02:01:32
>> No, cuz you just roll with it. Um but
02:01:34
it's crazy how fast everything's
02:01:35
changing.
02:01:36
>> Eh,
02:01:37
>> yeah. Um in terms of AI, how has that
02:01:40
impacted you?
02:01:41
>> Uh it's definitely has I've I've seen a
02:01:43
few with my coaching business. I've I
02:01:46
think I've seen a bit of an impact. So
02:01:48
with my coaching business, we have like
02:01:49
online courses, one-on-one coaching. So
02:01:52
that's like, you know, we have very
02:01:53
specific one-on-one coaching with a
02:01:55
number of different coaches. And then we
02:01:56
have like an online platform that's more
02:01:58
of a communitybased thing within the
02:02:00
triathlon space. And I say that's taken
02:02:02
a hit from AI because there's more AI
02:02:04
coaching based platforms around now. Um
02:02:07
but you know the one-on-one stuff, the
02:02:08
human interaction, I wouldn't say it's
02:02:10
changed at all.
02:02:11
>> Um
02:02:12
>> what do you think of um AI? Say someone
02:02:14
that's listening to this wants to run
02:02:15
their first marathon and they put like a
02:02:18
a good prompt into chat GPT. Do you like
02:02:20
that or would you say don't go near
02:02:23
>> don't go near it?
02:02:24
>> I think I mean it it's reasonable. It's
02:02:26
not bad. It's not too bad for you. I
02:02:28
mean it's not brilliant but for someone
02:02:30
who's doing that
02:02:31
>> it's not personalized is it? No, it's
02:02:32
not personalized and it doesn't give you
02:02:35
I mean training, you know, I talked
02:02:37
about the stimulus and response. The
02:02:39
stimulus is so important in terms of the
02:02:42
intensity and how you how you're doing
02:02:43
that and making sure your training is
02:02:45
demand driven. And what what I mean by
02:02:47
that is that it needs to be if you're if
02:02:50
you're doing a if you're doing a
02:02:52
marathon, you're not going to do much
02:02:53
bench press. You know, if you're doing a
02:02:55
powerlifting, you're not going to do
02:02:56
much running. And so you you have to
02:02:58
understand I don't think chat GBT is
02:03:00
quite there in understanding where the
02:03:01
intensities lie of of the the event and
02:03:04
then the intensities the very specific
02:03:07
intensity regulation for the individual
02:03:09
to do the right training.
02:03:12
>> If uh Kate, your wife um or your kids or
02:03:17
your best friends were in the next room
02:03:18
listening to this talking about you
02:03:19
behind your back, what three words would
02:03:22
you like them to use to describe you?
02:03:23
>> Oh gosh, that's hard. You asked a lot of
02:03:26
tough questions, Dom, I have to say. Do
02:03:28
you ask these are the same questions you
02:03:29
ask for everyone?
02:03:30
>> Yeah, more or less.
02:03:33
Now, this this one came about um you
02:03:36
must know Doo Allen.
02:03:37
>> Yes, of course.
02:03:38
>> Yeah. So, I had Dooall on the podcast.
02:03:39
>> Yeah.
02:03:40
>> He was talking about one of those
02:03:41
Godzone adventure races he was doing and
02:03:43
his team was Simone Simone Meer who's
02:03:45
also been on the podcast and Richie
02:03:47
Mccor uh the greatest all black of all
02:03:49
time. and he said a game they were
02:03:50
playing in the middle of the night to
02:03:51
keep everyone awake and stimulated was
02:03:53
Richie was asking everyone what three
02:03:55
words they'd like people to use about
02:03:57
them at their at their funeral. Okay.
02:03:58
>> And one of Richie's words for himself
02:04:00
was um integrity and Doug had only just
02:04:03
been you met him a day earlier and had
02:04:05
been doing this event with him and he
02:04:06
said it's funny because that's one word
02:04:07
that he would have thought would suit
02:04:09
Richie.
02:04:10
>> Yeah. Right. Okay.
02:04:11
>> So what about for you Dr. Dan, please?
02:04:12
>> So So are these words that I would like
02:04:14
to think they would say?
02:04:15
>> Yes.
02:04:16
>> Okay. Okay. I I quite like this question
02:04:18
because it's um on the surface it seems
02:04:20
kind of trivial but uh if once you've
02:04:22
got those words you can sort of reverse
02:04:24
engineer your life.
02:04:25
>> Yeah. Okay.
02:04:26
>> I'd like to think one of would be
02:04:28
protective.
02:04:29
>> I mean I like to think I'm very
02:04:31
protective of my tribe you know the
02:04:32
people around me the people who are
02:04:33
close to me. I think that's uh that's
02:04:36
one word. Um
02:04:40
I think
02:04:43
there's no other the word but I wouldn't
02:04:44
say actionable but what I mean by that
02:04:46
is my like the actions I have
02:04:51
my act I don't say no it's not about
02:04:53
what I say it's about the actions that
02:04:54
you do I think you know beliefs versus
02:04:56
beliefs versus behaviors and I think my
02:04:59
I like to think that my behaviors um
02:05:03
show my beliefs there's not really a
02:05:06
word But you know, I like to think I
02:05:08
know what you mean. You know what I
02:05:09
mean?
02:05:10
>> Um,
02:05:11
>> and then, um, the last one would be,
02:05:16
>> what I like to think.
02:05:23
Maybe
02:05:25
it's a tough one for the last one. Hey.
02:05:27
Um,
02:05:29
yeah, I'm I'm thinking like honest that
02:05:32
that sort of word
02:05:33
>> like integrity.
02:05:34
>> Yeah, it's like integrity, I guess. But
02:05:35
I didn't want to use that word because
02:05:36
you just said it. But
02:05:38
>> that's all right.
02:05:39
>> Yeah. But you know, I think like um
02:05:41
>> it's a great word.
02:05:42
>> Yeah. Like I think I I always remember
02:05:44
there's um you know the you want to
02:05:48
behave someone I think I was listening
02:05:50
to another podcast. Oh yeah. It was um
02:05:52
Marius was on you know Marius from he
02:05:55
was on MXT New Zealand. He went on the
02:05:57
Betw beers podcast. Yes. And he said he
02:06:00
said something in that is like behave
02:06:01
like your son is watching. And I think
02:06:03
that's what I'm talking about the
02:06:04
behaviors that that sort of that sort of
02:06:06
thing is that I always like to think
02:06:08
that whatever my behaviors are always
02:06:10
true and honest and and behaving with
02:06:14
the right actions.
02:06:15
>> I love that. Well, thanks for putting so
02:06:17
much thought into that answer.
02:06:18
>> Yeah, it's a tough one. Are you proud of
02:06:20
yourself?
02:06:21
>> Um, this is a difficult question for an
02:06:23
Englishman to answer.
02:06:24
>> Very difficult question for answer.
02:06:27
>> Yeah, I think English are even worse
02:06:29
than Kiwis at answering this. We we uh
02:06:32
it it takes a great deal deal of um
02:06:34
difficulty for a lot of us to you know
02:06:37
admit that we are
02:06:38
>> yeah I mean I would say I would I think
02:06:44
yeah I'm I'm definitely I would say I
02:06:45
mean I've achieved things I wanted to
02:06:47
achieve and I'm proud of those things
02:06:49
and
02:06:50
>> and um
02:06:52
I often think I wouldn't want to be
02:06:54
anyone else other than me you know so I
02:06:56
mean that that's a good thing right so
02:06:57
that makes I'm proud proud of my proud
02:07:00
of that side. Um but yeah, um obviously
02:07:03
I want to achieve more, but from what
02:07:05
I've done so far, it's um it's been
02:07:08
good. And then like I think that with
02:07:10
the fact with I know always I always
02:07:12
bring back to the family and that's just
02:07:14
that's my biggest achievement is you
02:07:17
know having having a a healthy family
02:07:20
and they're so vibrant and
02:07:23
>> happy. So that's that's the biggest
02:07:25
achievement.
02:07:27
>> What a great place to end it.
02:07:29
looking forward to see see what you do
02:07:30
in the future. Um, you're not even
02:07:32
middle-aged yet. You're still a young
02:07:34
man.
02:07:34
>> 43. Is that not middle-aged?
02:07:36
>> I don't know. 60 that call themselves
02:07:39
middle-aged. And I'm thinking to myself,
02:07:41
well, if you live to 120.
02:07:42
>> Yeah. What's middle age? Yeah.
02:07:45
>> Sounds like a very big band. But no,
02:07:46
you've still got a lot of um a lot of
02:07:48
mountains to climb.
02:07:49
>> I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. No, thanks
02:07:51
for having me on. It's been awesome.
02:07:52
>> Thanks, Dr. Dan PL. This has been a
02:07:54
great episode. I've really enjoyed it
02:07:55
and I know a lot of people are going to
02:07:56
get a lot out of this. Thank you so
02:07:57
much.
02:07:58
>> Perfect. Thanks very much.
