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I'm
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recording you ready here we
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go SE schm welcome to my podcast thanks
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for having me Dum um this is
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embarrassing before we sat down you
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um you you uh no no let me tell it let
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me tell it
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please so I grew up in Hawks Bay and the
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edge was a really popular radio station
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there and I have a very vivid memory of
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being like 11 or 12 years old and JJ and
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Dom was it JJ and Dom or Dom and JJ JJ
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and D us two and Mike P and Mike and
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Mike who I'm seeing like tomorrow oh
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fantastic I'm so excited to see him um
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so yeah so you guys had a radio
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or a radio show and there was one
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particular thing that's like burned in
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my mind was that on the show you used to
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do this thing where somebody would go to
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the toilet and would pee and they'd hold
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the phone up and you'd count how many
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seconds they peed for what was it tinkle
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tinkle tinkle Tuesday tinkle Tuesday so
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that is literally burned in my mind from
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childhood I thought it was a it was a
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great radio it was a dollar a second a
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dollar a second most weeks most weeks it
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was less than 50 or 60 bucks that you
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pay for I think we ended up stopping it
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cuz we got scammed cuz someone had like
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a massive bottle and just it just kept
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on going it was yeah oh and the the um I
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feel awkward about that now like I'm
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sort of squirming in my seat a little
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bit because um we'll get into this with
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this is all part of the fabric of your
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amazing story of your life um but you
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went off the rails pretty badly after
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that and I'm wondering if it's what you
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were listening to on the radio exactly
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it was the it was all all you guys if it
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wasn't for your radio show I would have
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had a nice normal life no childhood
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trauma it would have been just fine okay
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let's go okay yeah I'm removing myself
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from all responsibility okay hey um
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welcome back first of all um yeah
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connection to New Zealand do you feel
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like a kiwi I do yeah I mean I was born
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in Napier and I was born and raised in
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Hawks Bay for the most part like most of
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my childhood that I remember was
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predominantly in either Tia Wong or
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Hastings um
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and yeah I left for like quite a while
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before I came back
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um I came back for my first book tour
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and that was kind of like a
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jarring way to return I mean like I came
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back and like cycled the whole country
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that was like my return back it's like I
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want to smell it and sweat in
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it and that was my return back um but
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yeah it's so funny because like to
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Americans I'm not an American because I
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have like a little bit of a twang to my
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accent and to kiwis I sound so American
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so American yes that's a so your parents
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are are American so my mom's Italian
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Aman my dad's um German ameran and then
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they moved over here before I was born
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like because your mom got invited to
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move here by a m tribe yes so she was
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originally working in Australia with um
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with an Aboriginal tribe there and then
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she was invited to work with Niti kahun
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Nunu iwi and she was a choreographer for
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kah
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the dance company and so like there's
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pictures of like well she's pregnant
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with me she was choreographing um for
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kahurangi so that's how the citizenship
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happened that's how they moved to New
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Zealand so they moved here before I was
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born is your middle name m yeah yeah and
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it means um like break Break of Dawn or
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start of day or yeah or SL of dawn Kima
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cuz I was born at 606 in the morning so
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right as the sun was coming up and um
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yeah the huata family was really close
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to us and so uh they gave me my my
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middle name [ __ ] that's cool and and
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what's what's theoa is that the is that
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a national park yeah it's like the
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tallest tree in the world um and yeah
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there's also a national park and uh yeah
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and SM it's
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just no explanation required so so how
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does it feel when you come back home to
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New Zealand now like is it painful is it
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happy is it no it's super happy yeah I
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always forget how small the country is
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like it's a small small country not if
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you're riding it on a bike no not if
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you're riding it on a bike that's for
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sure no not just physically like it's
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actually um just just in the media like
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for example I was at the am show this
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morning and like one of the guys who was
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in The Newsroom was one of the reporters
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for the show Sunday that after my dead
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and brother passed away I was in
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California and they sent a reporter
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there to interview me and do a two-part
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special for Sunday and he was that
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reporter and so it's so it's such a
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small world in the sense that like
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everything's so interconnected same
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thing like Hawk Bay is Tiny like in
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terms of like once you've been in bigger
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cities and stuff places like Hawks Bay H
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like everybody knows everyone like it's
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a small place know it is it is small I
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was down there for a wedding a few
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months ago staying at um craigy Range
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yeah and I end up like going for a run
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to from craigy range to Hastings and
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around Hastings and then back again like
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it's very small it's very small very
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runnable the community is like super
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tight like you were saying that you know
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I was a naughty kid right so let me
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emphasize this story with I was a
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naughty kid but like oh no we'll get to
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that a whole card called childhood oh
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[ __ ] but like just to give you an
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example of how small Hastings was I got
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caught I used to steal from the watery
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FY all the time like yeah I can't
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believe you call it the watery FY that's
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amazing like I used to steal from there
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all the time and like one time when I
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stole from there it was it was the
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police came and got me and cuz they knew
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me pretty well by then and they came to
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get me and by the time we to we went
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like you know I don't know a kilometer
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to get to my house to drop me off my dad
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already knew because the neighbor had
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seen me in the cop car earlier like
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that's how small the town is right get
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away with J sh can't get away with
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anything so you you get a lifetime ban
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at the way house or you I did but I
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walked in there like during my second
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book tour I walked in there um and one
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of and I was like really sketched out I
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like had a hat on and I was like oh my
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God they're going to like never let me
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inside the way get but of course they
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like they didn't even notice in fact one
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of the guys on the checkout counter like
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recognized me from my book door so my
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God that's amazing Oh Come the amount of
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theft at those places you would have
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been very low level I was very low level
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yeah um so you you got a new book out uh
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dream of flying which is about Basse
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jumping yeah dream of flight yep so base
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jumping that's where you have this you
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look like like a flying a
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squirrel um yeah so Basse jumping is
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just jumping off of any fixed object
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yeah so it's an necron what what is it
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yeah so building yeah building is
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B um yes one from four antenna a
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building antenna and then s is spin so
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that's like a bridge of some kind um and
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Earth so it's just just an acronym for
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those four things so jumping off of any
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of those four objects is BAS jumping but
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the book in its in its entirety is about
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more the experience of human flight and
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like confronting fear and my
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relationship with fear so it goes the
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Basse jumping is a part of it obviously
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but it also goes through skydiving it
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goes through Wing suiting it goes
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through um you know paragliding speed
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riding like a whole different types of
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aspects of human flight including you
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know being in a wind tunnel Russia and
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things like that so it's it's really
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just a exploration of my relationship
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with my own fear like that's most of my
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like my second book isn't about cycling
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around New Zealand it's just the the
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main storyline is around yeah it's the
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backbone but really it's about like an
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emotional Journey what what are your
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fears um so when I noral
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fears when I started that particular um
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story you know it was 8 years ago now um
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and I had I had a fear of trusting
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myself and my own abilities um and you
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know it started with a bungee jump when
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I was really young um in TPO actually
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and um the fear that I felt in that and
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then my first Skydive the fear that I
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felt with that and then deciding to get
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my skydiving license and then it became
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a fear of not just the activity that
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that I'm doing but it became a fear of
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trusting my own instincts my own
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abilities um and navigating my way to
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mitigate the situation and the risk as
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much as possible but potentially get
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myself out of a gnarly situation yeah so
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yeah so you you were a sky jumper so you
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did like 250 jumps or something and then
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you started bass jumping yeah I had
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about 250 skydives before I started bass
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but you're still like even when you're
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bass jumping you're still skydiving you
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know there yeah so so you have that suit
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on the wing suit so wing suit is
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something that you put on right so like
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you can wing suit skydiving which I do
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or you can wing suit Bas jumping which I
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have not done and there a lot of people
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who wing suit base um generally you
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learn how to Basse jump first and then
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you there's a series of steps that
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happen like you put on um a two-piece
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suit and like a sausage suit so so in
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the book you know I'm I'm in Europe and
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I've got a suit on that would be the
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two-piece suit and that suit inflates to
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help give you lift and glide um and then
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from the two-piece suit you can either
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go to like a onesie where you um your
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legs are connected like a wing suit but
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your arms are free or you can go
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straight into a Wings suit and then same
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thing in the sky you can do it with you
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know a squirrel suit on um or a phoenix
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F or any of the other squirrels just a
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brand um or you can do it with a
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two-piece suit or you can do it with a
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onesie or you can do it slick with with
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no type of suit on at all and so there's
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so many different navigations it's so
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funny when people talk about
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like skydiving or base
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jumping um it's kind of like
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saying uh climbing right like there's so
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many facets to climbing so if I just say
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skydiving that's that encompasses the
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whole thing and it entirety just like
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climbing encompasses the whole thing but
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if you look at the facets within
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climbing you have ice climbing rock
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climbing Mountain nearing like free solo
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right tread Climbing Gym climbing like
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there's a whole bunch of different
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facets within it and same thing goes for
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skydiving right you have free flying you
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have Wing suiting you have um uh
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tracking you have there's multiple
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different facets within it same thing
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for Bas jumping there's multiple fa so
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that's a that's a whole separate a whole
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separate I I guess it's just this
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natural sort of intrigu of curiosity cuz
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it's something that um [ __ ]
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99.999% of us would never do yeah and
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for anyone that does it it's just this
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Intrigue because we just I suppose
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naturally assume you've got a Death Wish
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um which I mean to be fair like yeah
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there are a lot of jumpers who do I I
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did this as an exploration of what I was
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interested in what I wanted to do what I
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wanted to write about most people and I
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am definitely not even close to the most
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experienced jumper out out there there's
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people who dedicate their entire lives
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to this Sport and this activity and that
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is their everything and it encompasses
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everything within them and yeah sure
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I've met a lot who have death
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wishes I'm not going to deny that I feel
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like that's a cop out thing to say
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because anyone anyone that does it
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doesn't really want to die maybe they
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enjoy the exhilaration of feeling close
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to death but yeah they they don't it's a
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cop out sort of it can be yeah I mean I
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think that there's a very fine line
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that's walked in that world that can get
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extremely dangerous um and you know
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everyone has a different exploration
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explanation for their exploration of it
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and a lot of it depends on like the
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person that you're talking to because
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two jumpers are not alike there's
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there's a lot of differences between
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jumpers so if if it was legal if you
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were allowed to could you go to the jump
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platform on the sky tower in Oakland
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just using this as a reference point
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because it's something most people
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listening to this will better um yeah
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relate to could you jump off that in one
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of your suits or whatever with a with a
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skyd backpack on and land safely on the
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ground yeah so it would be a base jump
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you wouldn't be wearing a suit because
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it's too low there's no point the suit
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just gives you lift and glide and you
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wouldn't need that for something like
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Sky Tower um and yeah Sky Tower would
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make a great jump because you're trying
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to avoid like you know you don't want
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power lines and things like that which
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it doesn't have I was scouting it
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earlier so it doesn't have um but
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there's like a nice landing area and
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everything like that and there's people
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who specialize in this particular thing
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this guy named Jamie Crawford who's like
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in Los Angeles and San Diego and he just
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all he does is Jump Urban which is like
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um you know buildings and stuff like
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that but it that part of it gets a
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little tricky because it's not exactly
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legal so um that's not me I'm not
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interested in that stuff I have a
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company to R so I have to be like a
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little bit careful on what I jump you
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got to think about the Optics um jez it
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wouldd be great promo for the book
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though wouldn't it cheeky
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arist a cheeky arist yeah my public is
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wouldn't be very happy about that one um
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but this is how you metet your husband
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as well he he's a b jumper he was like
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an instructor yeah yeah yeah so he
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instructs he teaches people how to jump
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and that's how we met um I was a jumper
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before I met him like I had started
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Basse jumping already um but yeah that's
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how we met and fell in love yeah we'll
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get to that we get to that later it was
00:14:20
very very quick courtship like two weeks
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before you got engaged yeah like really
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seems like you rush into a lot of things
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um but and and you guys even move to
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Idaho so you could be near like a base
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jumping Bridge yeah there's a bridge
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there so he coaches Bas jumping so how
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high is the bridge um 486 I think 4
00:14:39
elevation 48 486 yeah meters uh feet
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feet yeah also like 150 M about that
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yeah so you jump off there
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yeah it's good training cuz like when
00:14:52
you're on a span I thought High the
00:14:54
higher you are would be better training
00:14:55
like there's more chance to yeah it can
00:14:58
be I mean like this particular one is
00:15:01
you know like we're talking about the
00:15:02
different facets like one of the facets
00:15:03
is lower objects right so this
00:15:05
particular one's good because it's got a
00:15:07
great landing area and if you you know
00:15:10
if your parachute has a 180 you can turn
00:15:11
around and go to the landing area and so
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um it's a perfect place to coach and
00:15:16
that's what he does is he trains people
00:15:18
how to base jump all right hey thanks
00:15:21
for that
00:15:22
explanation feels like this is a whole
00:15:24
separate
00:15:25
podcast so let's um why the CL back go
00:15:28
back to your childhood um you're born in
00:15:30
um Hogs Bay um your dad's your dad's
00:15:34
quite famous in mountaineering C circles
00:15:36
yeah yeah Marty Marty Schmid and had an
00:15:39
obsession with K2 he did yeah what's the
00:15:43
obsession he he's climbed everist uh
00:15:45
numerous times right yes why the so K2
00:15:48
is not as high as Everest why is K2
00:15:50
considered you know so
00:15:54
mysterious why is it so much more
00:15:56
difficult lot of like there was like
00:15:57
this saying years ago that like like um
00:16:01
you climb Everest you're a climber to
00:16:02
the world you climb K2 you're a climber
00:16:05
to climbers um and so you know I think
00:16:08
that it's very appealing to a lot of
00:16:10
climbers it's a beautiful mountain it's
00:16:12
super
00:16:13
striking uh I can understand why he was
00:16:15
so obsessed with it to be fair that
00:16:17
saying was
00:16:19
made quite a while ago and a lot has
00:16:21
changed in mountaineering since then um
00:16:24
now that there's a lot more teams and a
00:16:26
lot of fixed lines and stuff like that
00:16:28
on K2 so it was very different
00:16:30
atmosphere when when I grew up um when I
00:16:34
grew up it you know the K2 was the Holy
00:16:37
Grail of mountaineering so I think
00:16:39
that's part of the reason he was
00:16:41
obsessed with it yeah yeah and what are
00:16:44
your Recollections of your um your early
00:16:46
years sounds like your dad was um away a
00:16:47
lot like nine months of the year you
00:16:50
mean other than JJ and Dom playing
00:16:53
Tinkles is that that came later that
00:16:57
came later um but yeah he's he sounds
00:16:59
like um an intriguing dude sort of happy
00:17:02
energy always topless um homemade
00:17:04
sandals all of that yeah um tomato Peak
00:17:07
is a huge one in my memory it's so funny
00:17:09
I went back up there during my second
00:17:11
book tour I think it was you have clim
00:17:12
Mountain
00:17:13
yeah yeah so he used to always teach
00:17:16
climbing classes up there so that was
00:17:18
really early in my memory yeah but you
00:17:20
had you had a great relationship with
00:17:21
both your parents early on early on yeah
00:17:24
yeah I kind of left home quite young and
00:17:28
like rebelled against everything to do
00:17:30
with that and found business and um
00:17:34
started my company and it wasn't until
00:17:36
after they died that I kind of went back
00:17:38
into the adventure space yeah yeah yeah
00:17:41
cuz there was um yeah I've done like
00:17:44
quite a bit of digging into your story
00:17:45
so there was um so your dad was you
00:17:47
loved your dad but your dad was away a
00:17:49
lot so it wasn't often there is is that
00:17:52
CU it seems like you sort of had a chip
00:17:54
on your shoulder with your dad was that
00:17:55
sort of why no I don't think so I think
00:17:57
that um
00:18:00
look there's something that comes with
00:18:02
and this applies to really any extreme
00:18:05
sport um you can apply this to base as
00:18:07
well there's something that comes with
00:18:10
the personality that's attracted to that
00:18:12
particular world uh and a lot of the
00:18:16
time they have a very different sense of
00:18:19
responsibility than
00:18:21
what normal people would have quote
00:18:24
unquote right because they're there's a
00:18:26
you have to be inherently selfish to do
00:18:30
things like mountaineering or Bass
00:18:32
jumping or anything like that like there
00:18:33
has to be a vein of selfishness to that
00:18:35
but in terms of the time it takes the
00:18:37
time away from home or the risk or what
00:18:39
all of it okay yeah yeah the pure
00:18:41
dedication that it takes um to reach a
00:18:44
certain level in that activity and you
00:18:47
know my father was one of the top in the
00:18:49
world um and so I think that I was a
00:18:53
really challenging child cuz I was very
00:18:56
much like him very driven like him
00:18:59
stubborn very strong willed like these
00:19:02
are like all traits I still have right
00:19:05
um soed You Well in business serve me
00:19:07
well in business but yeah I mean in in
00:19:10
general I was like very very similar to
00:19:12
him in many regards and so we you know
00:19:15
as I went into my teenage years like
00:19:18
many teenagers who challenged their
00:19:20
parents um but his answer for it was to
00:19:25
go back to the mountains right so I
00:19:27
think that was something that I
00:19:28
struggled with a lot we had a
00:19:30
conversation before he passed away that
00:19:33
was me trying to tell him like I was a
00:19:35
child you were an adult you were
00:19:37
responsible but obviously that didn't
00:19:38
really work that well yeah cuz the
00:19:40
picture I can get is um he was what
00:19:43
you'd call the cool dead like there was
00:19:44
wasn't a lot of like boundaries or
00:19:46
parenting no there was definitely none
00:19:48
of
00:19:49
that he parented in his own way right
00:19:52
right look like I'm like really I look
00:19:55
back on it I'm like oh I I firmly
00:19:57
believe that we choose our parents
00:19:58
before we come into this Earth and I
00:20:02
think that's a huge part of our human
00:20:03
experience and I wouldn't change it for
00:20:06
a minute his parenting style wasn't um
00:20:09
you know stereotypical conventional or
00:20:11
conventional in any regard whatsoever
00:20:14
but I you know I learned a lot from both
00:20:16
of my parents you go to police care
00:20:19
foster care uh yeah I was in and out of
00:20:21
foster care for a little bit was that s
00:20:23
the beginning of that that was yeah that
00:20:26
was the beginning of that but it lasted
00:20:28
for a little while um and I don't know
00:20:30
if you've ever been a foster home in
00:20:32
Hastings Hastings is
00:20:35
rough Hastings is not like a like yeah
00:20:39
white picket fence kind of life like
00:20:40
Hastings can be rough for sure yeah I I
00:20:43
lived in Hastings for like a couple of
00:20:45
years in the um in the late 1970s but it
00:20:47
was a different place then like it's um
00:20:49
yeah it's it's very rough now and I'm
00:20:51
guessing when you were growing up it was
00:20:52
so you were in foster care because you
00:20:54
know because your your mom wasn't fit to
00:20:56
look after you and your dad was away is
00:20:57
that the or yeah child Youth and Family
00:21:00
Protective Services here CS yeah it's
00:21:03
funny cuz I I'll say Cs and nobody knows
00:21:06
what that means in the stes but um yeah
00:21:08
siths stepped in
00:21:11
um
00:21:13
and yeah I mean I think it was like a
00:21:16
mixture of stuff where it was uh we
00:21:19
would I'd be in the home for a little
00:21:21
bit and then if I was taken out of the
00:21:23
home like if Dad came back from an
00:21:24
expedition or if he went on an
00:21:26
expedition and um he arranged for
00:21:29
somebody to take care of us and then of
00:21:32
course I was a super naughty kid so I'd
00:21:35
sneak out or something like that and
00:21:36
then I'd get in trouble and then CS
00:21:38
would come back and my caseworker would
00:21:39
put me back in a home so it was just
00:21:41
like a lot of on and off of that it's
00:21:43
funny I've like started exploring it a
00:21:45
little bit more as an adult cuz you know
00:21:48
when you deal with stuff like that you
00:21:49
kind of block it all out just to get
00:21:51
through life um then I'm starting to
00:21:54
explore it a little bit more Nowack
00:21:56
everything unpack it all cuz I I I uh
00:22:00
joj and I when we were together we had
00:22:01
like family adoption um yeah one of her
00:22:04
nephews came to live with us when he was
00:22:05
like four years and 11 months old we we
00:22:08
did a lot of therapy on on his behalf
00:22:10
and you learn that um some like 80% of a
00:22:12
brain development's done in the first
00:22:14
thousand days or three years so if the
00:22:15
first three years are um sound and
00:22:18
relatively normal then you know you're
00:22:20
going to be pretty much all right yeah
00:22:22
um your your first few years okay I
00:22:25
think so I mean yeah were you yeah I'm
00:22:28
not twitching too bad like I I yeah I
00:22:32
mean I I believe so my my mom tried to
00:22:35
be a really really good mother and there
00:22:36
elements to her that were an incredible
00:22:38
mother that's why I said like I'm a firm
00:22:41
believer you pick your parents and I I
00:22:43
picked wonderful parents they just
00:22:45
weren't conventional parents in any way
00:22:47
whatsoever but if I look at my life and
00:22:50
how it shaped out I'm pretty good with
00:22:53
it that's great those um yeah so the
00:22:56
Foster Kier experience was that
00:22:59
I don't remember a lot of it to be
00:23:01
honest like and I talked to a trauma
00:23:03
therapist um like just a few weeks ago
00:23:06
actually just because I'm like looking
00:23:07
at exploring a lot of that stuff um
00:23:10
maybe for another book um like but um
00:23:15
yeah I mean I don't remember there's a
00:23:17
lot of I think everyone has that do you
00:23:20
remember all of your childhood no no no
00:23:23
like a lot of it kind of gets blocked
00:23:25
out I think um so that's a lot of my
00:23:29
childhoods I don't I literally don't
00:23:31
remember a lot of it You' do fun with
00:23:33
writing I've written some books mine are
00:23:35
mine are shitty books that you know
00:23:37
nothing like yours but when you start
00:23:39
writing often it triggers off like it's
00:23:41
almost like a snowball that's why I do
00:23:43
it it's so up other memories yeah and
00:23:46
then it's also just such a fun time
00:23:48
capsule like my style of writing
00:23:49
non-fiction narrative it is not a
00:23:51
literary Masterpiece in any regard
00:23:53
whatsoever I'm a publisher I work with
00:23:55
literary people like I'm not one of them
00:23:57
I just like
00:23:59
capturing my you know time on this Earth
00:24:01
it's a cool time time capsule like that
00:24:04
trip to Pakistan I took when I was
00:24:07
working on finishing this lost book I
00:24:08
opened that first book and I was like oh
00:24:11
[ __ ] I don't remember any of this this
00:24:12
is so cool like I can read back on what
00:24:15
the curry tastes like and like what the
00:24:17
peak look like and stuff that I wouldn't
00:24:19
remember you know so it's really nice to
00:24:22
have that kind of cathartic Time Capsule
00:24:24
yeah for sure so how did you end up in
00:24:26
Australia when you're were a teenager I
00:24:28
went to a performing arts high school I
00:24:31
like applied to a performing arts high
00:24:33
school and I really just I think I just
00:24:35
really wanted to get out of the
00:24:37
situation that I was in so were you you
00:24:39
know Foster here over there or no I
00:24:41
emancipated so I was legally allowed to
00:24:44
be on my own so where were you living
00:24:47
who think I was 14 maybe 15 that's
00:24:49
that's alarming though you're so young
00:24:50
right you must look back now how old are
00:24:51
you now 303 33 yeah yeah what do you
00:24:56
think when you look back on that now
00:24:58
that's crazy yeah I mean to be honest
00:25:00
I'm like really
00:25:02
impressed oh I'm going to [ __ ] cry
00:25:04
I'm like really
00:25:06
impressed if I heard my life story I'd
00:25:09
be like
00:25:10
[ __ ] impressed like what at your
00:25:12
survival and St yeah like I'm really
00:25:16
impressed I made it out through all of
00:25:17
that bring out the tissue box 27 minutes
00:25:21
on yeah you did Bloody grain I I don't
00:25:23
know if you want to talk about this or
00:25:24
not but you you you you got pregnant
00:25:26
over there at 15 yeah yeah
00:25:29
mhm yeah that I suppose like like you're
00:25:32
terminating it was just like a
00:25:34
no-brainer like it was the only option
00:25:36
at that age and stage of Life yeah I
00:25:39
think you know I was so young um yeah I
00:25:43
got a call from my dad and was like all
00:25:45
right time to get an
00:25:47
abortion so yeah yeah um yeah thanks for
00:25:52
being so open yeah it's I mean it's
00:25:55
really like it's really impressive like
00:25:57
you know to you know the the the woman
00:25:59
that's sitting in front of me now and
00:26:00
everything you've achieved with you know
00:26:02
what youve you've been through and
00:26:04
survived and enjoyed it's [ __ ] cool
00:26:06
yeah it's really cool yeah I think you
00:26:08
should be proud of yourself even though
00:26:10
your life to a lot of people like with
00:26:11
the Bas jumping and whatnot seems
00:26:12
chaotic now it's I suppose it's
00:26:14
Controlled Chaos now yeah yeah mitigated
00:26:17
chaos for sure yeah I'm choosing which
00:26:20
chaos I allow into my life and which
00:26:22
ones I don't and then um so then you s
00:26:26
sent to live with your granddad in Texas
00:26:28
which was like so this this is after po
00:26:30
opposite world oh I'm skipping out of it
00:26:33
here so um your Dad's second wife um she
00:26:37
tries to discipline you or tell you off
00:26:39
and you you punch her in the
00:26:42
face yeah she was a bit of a [ __ ] she
00:26:46
still she lives in New Zealand so I hope
00:26:48
she listens to this one so you're you're
00:26:51
yes so you come home this in Hawks Bay
00:26:53
you come home late one night yeah you
00:26:55
had a thing that you did where you when
00:26:57
you arrived home no curfew of course you
00:26:59
just tap on your dad's door so he knows
00:27:00
your home's safe and then um she wasn't
00:27:03
aware of this thing so she wakes up and
00:27:05
has a crack at you you um this is like
00:27:09
the first time I ever met her too like I
00:27:11
never even met
00:27:13
her never even matter her she gets up
00:27:16
and starts screaming at me you're like
00:27:19
what nobody disciplines
00:27:21
me give her a nice punch in the face and
00:27:25
then um yeah so then you get sent to T
00:27:28
[ __ ] you must um yeah no then I go to
00:27:31
boarding school oh boarding school that
00:27:33
was right before boarding school which
00:27:35
one um in Australia right okay before
00:27:39
the pregnancy oh good luck you're not
00:27:40
going to last long there are you and
00:27:42
then from there I get sent to Texas yeah
00:27:46
and and this sounds um amazing I I think
00:27:50
I heard this on another podcast you've
00:27:51
done so your granddad who I'm guessing
00:27:53
you didn't even know very well no yeah
00:27:56
so your granddad and his wife Barbara
00:27:58
and he sounds like the the most
00:28:00
incredible [ __ ] guy he was yeah he
00:28:02
was absolutely incredible yeah he was
00:28:05
amazing he passed away um just last year
00:28:08
oh I'm sorry to hear that yeah yeah it
00:28:09
was honestly it was like a really
00:28:13
beautiful um it was a beautiful
00:28:16
experience I've never been able to like
00:28:19
sit by somebody as they're dying before
00:28:22
like and so I spent um a few months with
00:28:26
him shortly before he died
00:28:29
and um it was great I like read to him
00:28:32
every day and played classical music for
00:28:34
him and just got really like good
00:28:37
one-on-one time with him which was ni
00:28:39
yeah CU it seems like it was finally
00:28:41
even though the the ship had probably
00:28:43
already sailed in terms of the age you
00:28:44
were when you got sent there seems like
00:28:46
finally you had this um sort of like Cal
00:28:49
calm in your life and um yeah he he was
00:28:53
like a non-smoker non- drinker but he
00:28:54
even he bought you siggies one day cuz
00:28:56
you were oh he was like the most
00:28:58
straight La person on the planet like
00:29:00
literally the most straight La woke up
00:29:03
every morning put on a suit went to work
00:29:05
like was very you know very Italian
00:29:08
American loyal to his family like a
00:29:11
really good man um and yeah so he
00:29:17
definitely was not like with the naughty
00:29:20
kids he would be like the guy running
00:29:24
the track if we were to kind of condense
00:29:28
our personalities he would be the one
00:29:30
running the track up early at the track
00:29:32
meet and I'd be the one like smoking
00:29:34
behind the bleachers we were just very
00:29:37
very opposite in our personalities and
00:29:39
so when he took me in I think it was a
00:29:40
bit of a challenge for him but he like
00:29:43
was so stable and so secure that it just
00:29:46
gave me that what I needed at that
00:29:49
period of time you his wife wife Barbara
00:29:51
like the first thing she says to you was
00:29:53
oh you smell something like that yeah I
00:29:56
did smell to be fair
00:29:58
they sent him it just it's like a feels
00:30:01
like a wonderful part of your story and
00:30:02
then um he he had a line that he used to
00:30:04
say to you like um you'll always have a
00:30:05
home here or something like that which
00:30:07
I'm guessing after everything you've
00:30:08
been through and the instability and
00:30:10
everything it must have just felt I I
00:30:12
don't did you did you trust it like you
00:30:14
know did you trust it or do you think
00:30:15
this is another adult that's going to
00:30:17
[ __ ] let me down eventually I think I
00:30:18
tested him so many times that eventually
00:30:21
I realized that um yeah I trusted it
00:30:24
like it just took a lot um in the year
00:30:27
that I lived with him a lot you know uh
00:30:30
and then yeah even after I cuz I left I
00:30:34
think I was 17 when I started my company
00:30:36
and I left his house and even after that
00:30:40
I'd go over for Sunday dinners and you
00:30:42
know he was a big part of my life um and
00:30:47
that's I think that's
00:30:49
what even the most unstable or naughty
00:30:54
child needs is just a sense of stability
00:30:56
M you know yeah
00:30:59
you do think
00:31:01
um
00:31:03
yeah I like you know after you did
00:31:06
passed away and actually even before he
00:31:07
passed away do you think um he took on
00:31:08
like a father figure role in your life
00:31:10
would you say my father or my grand
00:31:13
grand yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
00:31:16
he he took on um a sense of
00:31:19
responsibility and stability that that
00:31:22
should come from a parent yeah so so
00:31:25
during that stage when you're in Texas
00:31:27
had you had you s of cut yourself off
00:31:29
this this is when um your dead cut
00:31:31
myself myself off entirely from everyone
00:31:34
yeah just kind of packed up my bags and
00:31:37
got shipped to the states and your Dad
00:31:39
tried to keep in touch with your
00:31:40
biological dad tried to keep in touch
00:31:42
with you but um you redirected his his
00:31:44
emails to your spam folder yeah for many
00:31:47
years yeah I only reconnected with him
00:31:50
um you know we I spent five and a half
00:31:53
almost six years not talking to him at
00:31:54
all um obviously still Denali Denali was
00:31:58
still a huge part of my life I still
00:31:59
talked to my brother constantly and he
00:32:02
would try to encourage me to talk to my
00:32:03
dad but um yeah it wasn't until about a
00:32:07
year before he died that I started
00:32:09
talking to him again and reconnecting
00:32:11
with him yeah and and it was also about
00:32:13
this time you started your own company
00:32:14
yeah uh so you're 16 years old um and
00:32:17
the company's still going today and and
00:32:20
very successfully D'Angelo publishing so
00:32:22
D'Angelo was um yeah you you you you
00:32:25
gave up the Schmid name no I just made
00:32:27
it up I was just like oh really just
00:32:30
made it's so funny it's such a funny
00:32:33
story I literally just made it up I was
00:32:36
just like D'Angelo that sounds cool I
00:32:39
thought maybe it's your your grandad's
00:32:40
name or Barbara oh okay just made it up
00:32:43
so so you became um SE Sequoia D'Angelo
00:32:47
yeah I thought it sounded
00:32:50
cool you know the really funny part
00:32:52
about this whole thing the really I mean
00:32:54
I was [ __ ] 16 like how smart were you
00:32:56
at 16 the really funny part about this
00:32:59
whole thing is like I spelled it
00:33:01
wrong
00:33:03
D'Angelo is an Italian name it's D
00:33:07
apostrophe and I put d i a n g e l o and
00:33:11
this is after I lived in Italy and
00:33:13
everything like I spelled the name wrong
00:33:16
but then I was committed to it I had a
00:33:18
logo I had business cards I had to stick
00:33:20
with it right so I I kept it and then
00:33:24
like four four or five years ago we were
00:33:27
doing our ational copyright registration
00:33:29
and
00:33:30
trademark and we submitted it to them
00:33:32
because we were opening a branch in the
00:33:34
UK and we submitted it to them and the
00:33:37
Trademark Office came back with we
00:33:39
wouldn't usually allow this trademark to
00:33:41
exist for a company because it's a last
00:33:44
name but seeing as it's not spelled
00:33:47
correctly will allow you to have the
00:33:49
trademark yeah a publisher with spelling
00:33:52
issues what could be that's pretty much
00:33:54
my life yeah so was that just like um
00:33:57
like a a [ __ ] you to your appearance
00:33:59
really I think it was yeah I think it
00:34:02
was a you don't get to be associated
00:34:05
with me in any way I'm going to be
00:34:07
successful outside of your name yeah
00:34:09
well you just felt you felt lit down or
00:34:11
abandoned or I just wanted to carve my
00:34:15
own name and my own place in this Earth
00:34:18
You know it's a random thing to do at 16
00:34:22
yeah how yeah how do you go about
00:34:23
starting a company when you're 16 like
00:34:25
where do you even begin um you obvious
00:34:27
you didn't at 16 you didn't plan for it
00:34:29
to be you know be this big publishing
00:34:31
house that it is now no [ __ ] no no you
00:34:34
just couldn't allow yourself to think
00:34:35
that big oh no I definitely thought that
00:34:37
big I
00:34:40
just you don't know where to start I've
00:34:42
always thought that big though like um
00:34:45
yeah I I just don't think that I have
00:34:47
like I don't have
00:34:49
that I don't have that thing that most
00:34:51
people have where something's not
00:34:54
possible or something's not doable or
00:34:55
something's too big I don't have that
00:34:58
I've never had that it's great but it's
00:35:01
also a major detriment right yeah but um
00:35:05
I mean in the thing you put put your
00:35:06
mind to I think you you know you've got
00:35:07
the the stubbornness or whatever you
00:35:09
want to what the attribute you want to
00:35:10
call it as to to do it well why
00:35:13
publishing oh [ __ ] that's a good
00:35:15
question I ask my staff that every day
00:35:17
I'm like why are we in publishing um I
00:35:21
think storytelling is very important I
00:35:23
think that literature outlives us I
00:35:25
think that the oldest form of
00:35:28
storytelling is written form and there's
00:35:32
important knowledge and information that
00:35:33
should be passed down through
00:35:34
generations that's why I do
00:35:37
it yeah and it was quite successful
00:35:39
quite early on no [ __ ] no no no my first
00:35:43
book that I ever published was quite
00:35:45
successful but that was also it took me
00:35:47
years to realize why that was successful
00:35:49
it was also somebody who was really well
00:35:51
known and it was circumstantial and um
00:35:55
the timing was right on it but then no
00:35:57
then I failed for many years after that
00:35:59
many many many years it's still a grind
00:36:02
you don't get into publishing for money
00:36:04
that's for damn sure you don't get into
00:36:05
media for money at all like yeah you're
00:36:08
right right podcasting do podcast they
00:36:10
say yeah I mean it's just in general
00:36:14
like um you know I I have a few other
00:36:17
companies on the side so like I do I
00:36:20
have a real estate development company
00:36:21
and stuff like that and I joke all the
00:36:23
time I'm like I make more money in a
00:36:25
month with my real estate development
00:36:26
company than I do with year with
00:36:28
publishing like that's not why I do it
00:36:30
just for the passion or the love of it I
00:36:33
just think that storytelling is super
00:36:34
important I think there's certain
00:36:35
messages that should be brought to the
00:36:37
world you know yeah well that's cool and
00:36:40
congratulations on the success that that
00:36:42
you've had with that and you continue to
00:36:44
have with that cool yeah it's fun I get
00:36:46
to meet cool people and work with cool
00:36:48
people as you do with things like
00:36:49
podcasts right you get to meet cool
00:36:50
people and oh 100% And it's um yeah just
00:36:54
I I get to have meaningful conversations
00:36:56
with cool people not like um you're from
00:36:58
my radio background it was probably like
00:36:59
similar to like say the am show that you
00:37:01
went on this morning it's S 5 minutes
00:37:03
sitting there if you've got a long
00:37:05
answer I'd be look at my watch like [ __ ]
00:37:07
yeah yeah exactly but this this is a
00:37:09
chance to get to to go deep and really
00:37:11
explore the story which I [ __ ] love
00:37:13
Yeah long form's great I remember when
00:37:15
podcasts start started like popping off
00:37:18
I was like oh this is amazing cuz books
00:37:21
are long for right like we get to tell a
00:37:23
whole story and then if you're promoting
00:37:25
a book you get a two second sound bite
00:37:27
snpp bit of what that story is in this
00:37:29
case that encompassed eight years of my
00:37:31
life you know yeah so let's um move to
00:37:36
K2 and the accident how do you feel
00:37:39
talking about this now you you talked
00:37:41
about it so much it's like an auto pilot
00:37:43
sort of thing is it still tough to go
00:37:45
back yeah I mean I I think it depends um
00:37:49
in the context in which I'm I'm talking
00:37:51
about it obviously so like and there's
00:37:55
one particular event that I've done
00:37:57
every year for the last nine years now
00:37:59
which is a Gala for the nonprofit that I
00:38:02
have um Denali named after your brother
00:38:04
yeah Denali foundation so we have this
00:38:06
like big black tie ball in New York City
00:38:08
every year and so obviously I do a
00:38:12
speech every year and I bring it up then
00:38:16
um and then during a book tour like this
00:38:20
um I'll speak about it but it's
00:38:23
interesting grief is you know it's an
00:38:25
ongoing journey and it's been 11
00:38:27
almost 11 years now you know and
00:38:31
so a huge part of it is like
00:38:34
navigating how I feel in these moments
00:38:38
and through this time period and I'm
00:38:41
okay talking about it I'm not like you
00:38:43
know I'm not in a position where I don't
00:38:45
want to discuss it um I I think that
00:38:48
there's a a lot
00:38:50
of elements to grieving publicly that
00:38:54
have been really helpful and cathartic
00:38:56
to me but also to other people I
00:38:58
remember after my first book came out
00:38:59
that was like one of the first things
00:39:01
that people when I was touring one of
00:39:03
the first things people would do was
00:39:04
come up to me after a reading or a
00:39:06
signing and say like I lost my brother
00:39:08
or you know my dad died tragically or
00:39:10
something and yeah so like a
00:39:12
vulnerability Exchange in a way isn't it
00:39:14
yeah and that's I think that's really
00:39:15
important in society because we're not
00:39:17
really good with death in
00:39:19
general yeah so um for anyone that's
00:39:22
like what what are they what are they
00:39:23
talking about so it was um yeah the 10th
00:39:25
anniversary last year so it's coming up
00:39:27
11 is uh that you lost your dad and your
00:39:30
brother at the same time on in an
00:39:32
avalanche on K2 um I've heard you say
00:39:36
since then um the greatest tragedy is
00:39:38
the best thing that ever happened to me
00:39:40
so funny so many people repeat that line
00:39:43
like it's hard it's hard to see how
00:39:44
that's that's possible to get to that
00:39:46
point why a lot of people repeat that
00:39:49
line back to me I don't even know where
00:39:51
I first said it um but a lot of people
00:39:55
do you regret saying it now because at
00:39:57
all you mean it I 100% mean it but it's
00:40:00
just so hard for people to understand or
00:40:04
grasp that
00:40:05
concept um
00:40:09
because the trajectory in which my life
00:40:12
was going prior to their
00:40:14
death
00:40:17
uh was not one that I would want for my
00:40:20
life so you were like 22 at the time
00:40:23
yeah and I was um the publishing company
00:40:27
had done one book that was predominantly
00:40:29
doing a nightlife magazine I was out
00:40:31
partying every [ __ ] night um I was
00:40:35
just in a a
00:40:37
haze that I would have probably stayed
00:40:40
in
00:40:41
until the end of my
00:40:44
life like you were smoking a lot of
00:40:47
cigarettes alcohol cocaine all of it
00:40:49
yeah yeah doing a lot of drugs like um
00:40:53
yeah I was in a I was in a spiral like a
00:40:55
pretty deep spiral
00:40:57
um I was still managing to work every
00:41:00
day because I'm just dedicated and
00:41:03
driven but I was in a pretty deep spiral
00:41:05
I suppose at that age you can that sort
00:41:07
of living is going to catch up with you
00:41:08
but yeah you can sort of stay out late
00:41:11
at night and bounce back the next
00:41:12
morning in your 30s 40s not so bad yeah
00:41:16
just the the people I was hanging out
00:41:18
with like I wasn't I wasn't curious
00:41:20
about life anymore in the same way that
00:41:22
I was when I was a child or that I am
00:41:24
now um curiosity is a huge part of who I
00:41:28
am and that was stifled during that
00:41:29
period of time and I think if I if I
00:41:32
didn't have a massive tragedy wake me up
00:41:36
and take me out of that situation I
00:41:38
don't know that I ever would have gotten
00:41:40
out of it and
00:41:43
so that massive tragedy brought me back
00:41:47
to my roots and my core which was
00:41:50
adventure and was exploration was
00:41:53
curiosity was um and a need to
00:41:58
understand this life and what the
00:42:00
purpose is and who I am in it and it
00:42:04
took a really horrific tragedy the worst
00:42:08
thing that ever happened in my life for
00:42:10
that to bring me to a point where I was
00:42:14
living a life that I was happy with
00:42:18
again yeah oh that's interesting that's
00:42:20
a great explanation think it you hear
00:42:22
other people say it in different ways I
00:42:24
just don't think most people will say it
00:42:26
as poignantly
00:42:27
like like somebody who goes through a
00:42:29
horrific divorce right and was a
00:42:31
horrible divorce and they were you know
00:42:33
shattered and heartbroken but years
00:42:34
later they're like I'm really glad I
00:42:37
went through that you know that was a
00:42:38
really good thing that happened to me
00:42:40
because it allowed me on a different
00:42:42
journey in my life yeah and I think this
00:42:44
was a line from your granddad somewhere
00:42:45
he said um I think your your dad asked
00:42:47
him once if um you you were ever going
00:42:49
to like talk to him again and your
00:42:51
granded had some line about time which I
00:42:53
thought was really profound um time is
00:42:55
the only judge of that or something like
00:42:57
that which is really cool so um only
00:43:00
time can judge that yeah yeah what is
00:43:02
that only time can judge that
00:43:04
mhm yeah yeah I love that because people
00:43:06
say time's the great healer but it's not
00:43:08
it's not a cure oil is it no I don't
00:43:11
believe so no so so you you weren't um a
00:43:15
mountain climber at the time and neither
00:43:16
was your brother Denali he was he was
00:43:17
loved his art was very good at Art well
00:43:20
he was definitely a climber I mean he
00:43:21
was the youngest person to do um Ali you
00:43:24
know at that time period like he he
00:43:26
climbed a lot they did a first descent
00:43:28
route on Mount Denali his namesake
00:43:30
highest peak in North America um and
00:43:33
yeah he was a climber for sure there's
00:43:35
no question he was a great climber he
00:43:36
was just an artist more than he was a
00:43:40
climber I would say like he wanted to
00:43:42
have his career be in art and his life
00:43:45
be in art he was just very gifted at
00:43:47
climbing right but he he wasn't really
00:43:49
sort of match fit to do K2 he'd been
00:43:51
just graduated top of his class i' would
00:43:54
say he was fitter than most people in
00:43:55
the M right I think there
00:43:57
that was a something I saw in a magazine
00:43:58
article from your mom she said you know
00:44:01
you know he wasn't really his wasn't the
00:44:03
right head space to do the second
00:44:04
highest peak in the world at that time
00:44:06
something like that I mean I don't know
00:44:07
I I think that we have differing
00:44:09
opinions obviously she lost a son you
00:44:11
know she's she's got her own opinion on
00:44:14
stuff but yeah but you your dad had like
00:44:16
this dream of being the first father and
00:44:18
son to yeah so they were doing a double
00:44:20
Ascent cuz they did broad Peak which
00:44:23
they were the first father and son to do
00:44:25
broad Peak and that's right right next
00:44:27
to K2 and then from there they went over
00:44:30
to attempt
00:44:33
K2 right is that is that something
00:44:36
that's done in climbing like I'm just
00:44:37
thinking from like a running perspective
00:44:39
you wouldn't run a marathon and then two
00:44:41
weeks later run another one you sort of
00:44:43
um sometimes yeah sometimes it's done I
00:44:46
have a a good friend Kristen who just
00:44:48
did like back toback multiple mountains
00:44:50
but sometimes it's done like that where
00:44:52
you go in and you're attempting to do
00:44:54
two mountains at once or you're
00:44:56
acclimating on a certain Mount and then
00:44:57
you go to another one yeah and do do you
00:45:01
remember the last conversation you had
00:45:03
with your brother or your dad did they
00:45:04
have a phone there
00:45:06
m
00:45:09
yeah that that one's a little tough I
00:45:12
won't talk about that one that one's a
00:45:14
little tough I had a bit of a tough
00:45:15
conversation with
00:45:17
Dad on on K2 uh no just before they
00:45:21
right yeah yeah so short conversation
00:45:24
long conversation short conversation
00:45:28
wow is this not in one of your books or
00:45:30
anything um I don't think so I don't
00:45:34
know I don't think I I don't think I put
00:45:36
it in any of the books maybe I did I
00:45:39
don't know I've done so many interviews
00:45:41
and talks on it now I'm like you forget
00:45:43
I forget what's what's what I even said
00:45:46
on what yeah you forget I love that with
00:45:48
with the podcast it's like did I have
00:45:49
that conversation with someone like on
00:45:51
the microphone or was it off or was it
00:45:53
off or who knows yeah it's interesting
00:45:55
because I also like you know I laid low
00:45:57
for the last few
00:45:59
years like I haven't done I think I did
00:46:02
like one interview in
00:46:04
2020 I think but since then I've like
00:46:08
laid low you know I've been dealing with
00:46:09
a lot of my grandfather passing um
00:46:13
husband's health issues like I've been
00:46:15
dealing with navigating life a lot um so
00:46:18
I kind of steered clear of having the
00:46:20
book come out this book was supposed to
00:46:22
come out like four years ago have a
00:46:24
wound to bloody Publishers yeah exactly
00:46:27
yell at the Ang what even is that what a
00:46:30
hacker is that okay um all right well we
00:46:33
don't have to focus on that but yeah
00:46:35
like it because of what happened which
00:46:37
was an accident which had nothing to do
00:46:38
with you like are you are you
00:46:39
embarrassed about the last phone call or
00:46:41
no no it's just you know um just a tough
00:46:45
just a tough one just between me and Dad
00:46:47
yeah know okay well that's fair enough
00:46:49
and then so then when do you when do you
00:46:51
hear that there's been an accident and
00:46:53
they they can't can't be found or that
00:46:55
they've been killed I got that call from
00:46:57
a family friend
00:47:00
um when base camp kind of made the call
00:47:04
that that uh a couple Sherpas went up
00:47:07
there and determined that an avalanche
00:47:09
had wiped out the camp so yeah and was
00:47:13
it um was I've had another guy on the
00:47:15
podcast called Adam Adam perori he used
00:47:17
to play cricket for New Zealand and he
00:47:18
climbed Everest he had a he had a like
00:47:21
near-death experience on Everest and he
00:47:23
said the quote is something like the
00:47:24
mountain doesn't know you're an expert I
00:47:25
think it's a m line um was the accident
00:47:30
the Avalanche that killed your your dad
00:47:31
and your brother avoidable or was it
00:47:34
like sloppiness on their part
00:47:37
or it's a tough one I mean K2 is gnarly
00:47:40
it's like you know so even the most
00:47:43
careful climate comes with risk yeah I
00:47:46
mean arguably one of the most if not the
00:47:49
most dangerous mountain in the world
00:47:50
like even you can mitigate all risks
00:47:53
humanly possible but Avalanche will
00:47:56
still work wipe you out there's nothing
00:47:58
you can do with that one you
00:48:01
know that seems like such a [ __ ]
00:48:04
terrifying way to go as
00:48:06
well
00:48:08
like I've got a mate that um took his
00:48:10
own life a few years ago and he he took
00:48:12
it in a like a a very like a very
00:48:15
violent way and whenever I think about
00:48:17
it it just like sends a shatter at me
00:48:18
and I'd imagine it's the same for you
00:48:20
know you thinking about especially with
00:48:22
your familiarity with mountains and
00:48:24
stuff um yeah I oh I can't I just can't
00:48:27
imagine how terrifying that would be
00:48:29
mhm yeah I mean over the course of
00:48:32
almost 11 years now I come to terms with
00:48:36
it yeah so
00:48:40
um yeah that must have been a rough time
00:48:42
and then um then you you weren't uh
00:48:44
welcome back at your dad's memorial in
00:48:46
New Zealand because no I was so pissed
00:48:48
about that so that was because of the
00:48:50
his his his wife at the time of his
00:48:51
death the one that you punched and the
00:48:54
you didn't make a great first impression
00:48:56
but then again make a great first
00:48:57
impression on you either no um yeah so
00:49:00
that must have been that must have been
00:49:01
really [ __ ] hard yeah but it's been
00:49:03
really interesting cuz like whenever I'm
00:49:05
back here I always have his friends like
00:49:07
come up and say oh we wish you were at
00:49:09
the memorial that's been like an ongoing
00:49:12
theme um yeah I feel like they I mean
00:49:15
yeah I just got a message this morning
00:49:17
somebody saw me on the am show like
00:49:19
somebody I never even heard of and this
00:49:20
is the one thing I love about New
00:49:22
Zealand is is so small so I get messages
00:49:24
all the time for people that are like
00:49:27
I know it's been like you know 11 years
00:49:29
since they died but I just wanted to say
00:49:31
I climbed with your dad on Mount Cook
00:49:33
and he like I guess had done some route
00:49:35
on Mount Cook with Dad and was like saw
00:49:38
the am show clip this morning and wanted
00:49:40
to reach out like it's awesome it's
00:49:41
super cool that's a really cool part
00:49:43
about it well when when you get get told
00:49:46
you're not allowed at the memorial why
00:49:47
aren't you just like well [ __ ] you I'll
00:49:50
do what I
00:49:51
want that I think at that point I was
00:49:54
just so like Shattered by everything you
00:49:57
know you got to remember I was like
00:50:00
22 you're still yeah you're you're a bad
00:50:04
[ __ ] for 22
00:50:05
though was it just like the just this
00:50:08
respectful side that kicks in that
00:50:09
you're like I don't want to be involved
00:50:10
in this drama or something like that
00:50:12
yeah I mean I think I knew that I had my
00:50:15
own way to grieve with their losses yeah
00:50:19
um it's also just like you're you're
00:50:23
really Jarred when it's such a sudden
00:50:25
accident um you know going through my
00:50:28
grandfather's death this last year it's
00:50:30
like there's something really beautiful
00:50:31
about the process of leaving this Earth
00:50:33
if it's done in the right way where
00:50:35
you're old and you're surrounded by
00:50:36
people who love you
00:50:38
and but if it's a sudden accident um it
00:50:43
changes the nature of how you
00:50:46
grieve yeah I'd agree with that I think
00:50:48
that's the you know something like um
00:50:50
cancer or any sort of teral illness as
00:50:52
as awful as it is um I suppose the
00:50:56
upside of that is it gives you that
00:50:57
opportunity to you know get your ducks
00:50:59
in a row not leave anything unsa and
00:51:03
maybe have that moment where you know
00:51:04
you're at peace and you've got you know
00:51:06
some of the some of the faces that you
00:51:07
love the most like standing around you
00:51:10
as you depart um
00:51:14
yeah so when when did you when did you
00:51:16
go through the spam folder and read the
00:51:19
emails God it must have
00:51:23
been maybe 2 or 3 years after he died oh
00:51:25
really that long yeah but you you knew
00:51:28
they were sitting there the whole time
00:51:29
or did it just like come back to you
00:51:30
like oh that's right I think after I got
00:51:32
out of my haze of
00:51:34
grief yeah was so the yeah there must
00:51:38
have been like grief for your brother
00:51:39
cuz you you know you you loved him in
00:51:40
the relationship there was fine but you
00:51:42
you dead was it like part was part of it
00:51:45
guilt on your
00:51:46
part or was it just like anger at him
00:51:49
for being not being the dead that you
00:51:51
thought he should be or no no I think
00:51:54
that um
00:51:58
there was a little bit of anger for
00:52:00
obviously my brother was 25 and in the
00:52:03
beginning I felt like you know
00:52:05
challenged by the fact that he was on K2
00:52:08
and that happened um but it was just I
00:52:12
think it's just a navigation of figuring
00:52:14
out
00:52:16
that they just lived a very different
00:52:18
kind of Life specifically my dad and it
00:52:21
took me going into Pakistan finding a
00:52:25
venture in my own right living through
00:52:27
my 20s in a very similar manner to how
00:52:30
my father did um and my brother for that
00:52:33
matter in terms
00:52:35
of determining what our purpose is on
00:52:38
this Earth and what we're spending our
00:52:39
time doing
00:52:41
and yeah took a lot of that to kind of
00:52:43
navigate it yeah what um yeah what was
00:52:47
it like reading reading those
00:52:50
messages yeah I
00:52:53
mean that's a good question I think it
00:52:56
was
00:52:57
by the time I had read them it was a few
00:52:59
years later and I wasn't in such shock
00:53:02
anymore I think if you go through a
00:53:04
tragic accident like that the first year
00:53:06
is like you're so you're so in shock
00:53:10
kind like nothing that you do or say can
00:53:13
be taken um it all has to be taken with
00:53:15
a grain of salt CU you're just in such
00:53:17
shock so it was a few years after that
00:53:20
and I'm glad that I waited that long to
00:53:22
read through them what was the what was
00:53:24
the sort of tone of them uh just check
00:53:26
in on me wondering who I am like I think
00:53:29
that's a huge part of
00:53:31
like you know father who loves their
00:53:34
children it's kind of cool eh like he
00:53:37
never you know he never stooped to the
00:53:40
to the level you were playing at I guess
00:53:42
or I mean you were the child of the
00:53:44
relationship so you know you deserve a
00:53:46
free pass but to be fair you you you you
00:53:49
were completely entitled to have a chip
00:53:50
on your shoulder but the fact that he
00:53:52
was never like H whatever yeah and he he
00:53:55
kept keep
00:53:57
persisting like in hindsight yeah that's
00:54:01
that's pretty
00:54:02
cool yeah and then um so then it's is it
00:54:06
like a year after they die that the the
00:54:08
Facebook thing happens two years two
00:54:11
years mhm so what is so you're watching
00:54:14
some like promotional ad on Facebook no
00:54:17
MH promotional video on Facebook and
00:54:20
then
00:54:22
um yeah just jumped on a plane and flew
00:54:25
to Pakistan and
00:54:27
that became my
00:54:29
first my first experience with big
00:54:32
mountains in the Korum yes so so so the
00:54:35
Facebook thing was um what there's some
00:54:38
line in there about you know this
00:54:40
mountain can kill you or something like
00:54:41
that is that what the line is what's
00:54:44
yeah his name was Mike horn he's like I
00:54:46
don't know this guy from South Africa
00:54:49
and he was doing a climb of K2 and
00:54:54
climbers are very like chauvinistic
00:54:57
some of them are not all of them not
00:54:59
some of them are so he was like you know
00:55:01
showing that the mountain can kill you
00:55:03
if you don't know what you're doing and
00:55:04
then flashed some human body parts so
00:55:08
[ __ ] disrespectful yeah and then were
00:55:10
were you outraged oh I was [ __ ] livid
00:55:13
yeah called around to some of the other
00:55:15
families jumped on a plane went to
00:55:18
Pakistan yeah you're skim wait you
00:55:22
you're skimming over this very quickly
00:55:23
so do you get the video because I've
00:55:25
done you book tours on it and talked
00:55:27
about it a million times um come on but
00:55:31
there be people hearing learning who you
00:55:33
are and hearing your story for the very
00:55:34
first time this is a chance to get a
00:55:36
couple of extra sales for D'Angelo
00:55:38
publishing oh God not anyone will be to
00:55:41
Google it cuz the spelling's all [ __ ]
00:55:43
up um so do do you phone do you message
00:55:47
the owner of the video and get them to
00:55:49
take it [ __ ] down or I think I wrote
00:55:52
him a public note yeah um
00:55:58
and at one point he replied to a press
00:56:01
inquiry I think it was a while
00:56:04
later but yeah no he was just a he's
00:56:06
just a [ __ ] he doesn't
00:56:08
matter yes so so you see you see this um
00:56:11
you see turns out it's not your brother
00:56:14
but you you you think it is and then um
00:56:16
get an emergency Visa go to Pakistan
00:56:18
even though you definitely weren't match
00:56:20
fit you were smoking a pack of daries a
00:56:22
day at this point yeah not doing any
00:56:23
sort of no I was just you know
00:56:26
in a that kind of cloud that I was
00:56:29
telling you about you know what why
00:56:31
didn't you um cuz you did the you did
00:56:33
the tricks that's a big massive trick to
00:56:35
get the Bas I spent 17 days in the Korum
00:56:39
for that yeah why didn't you just
00:56:41
helicopter or something well I didn't
00:56:43
have the money for one helicopter there
00:56:45
is like 30 grand oh okay yeah it was you
00:56:48
know I didn't have the money at that
00:56:49
time yeah um and two like to acclimate
00:56:55
like to heli in you would only to
00:56:57
helicopter into that altitude you'd only
00:57:00
have like an hour and then it gets
00:57:03
really dangerous cerebrala and other
00:57:05
things so you'd have to hel out right
00:57:07
away we needed time to go look for where
00:57:09
the body parts were we didn't know
00:57:10
exactly where they were so the only way
00:57:13
to get in with enough time was to
00:57:15
acclimate Slowly by trekking in and I'm
00:57:18
so glad I did it that way because that's
00:57:21
the way that really kind of opened my
00:57:24
eyes to what the world
00:57:27
holds yeah and you may not have even
00:57:30
known this at the at the time or maybe
00:57:32
you did but it feels like with the
00:57:33
benefit of hindsight in the book that
00:57:34
you've written about it it was um yeah
00:57:36
like a healing Journey for you yeah big
00:57:38
time massive healing Journey yeah and
00:57:41
that's how I feel about all the books
00:57:42
like there've been a massive healing
00:57:44
Journey that's why I like doing it it's
00:57:47
so your second one that's when you came
00:57:48
to New Zealand for a book tour to
00:57:50
promote the first book and you did a
00:57:52
self-sufficient um bike ride of the
00:57:54
there's got to be an easier way to heal
00:57:56
yourself it could be self-sufficient
00:57:59
[ __ ] like the challenge like a bike
00:58:01
with a little trailer on the back with
00:58:03
all your supplies oh my God it was great
00:58:06
it smelled
00:58:07
brilliant showed up to every book
00:58:10
signing just smelling absolutely
00:58:12
wretched suppose the good thing is you
00:58:14
don't get any strangers at the book
00:58:15
signing wanting to hug
00:58:17
you that's definitely true nobody wanted
00:58:20
to hug me nobody wanted to hug me it was
00:58:23
great I had a lot of fun actually it was
00:58:25
a great bike it was a great cycle ride
00:58:27
you know like halfway through I don't
00:58:29
know did you read the second book no I
00:58:31
haven't so halfway through the second um
00:58:34
second book I funny I talk about my life
00:58:37
in books now halfway through the cycle
00:58:39
ride was just outside of Wellington and
00:58:42
um I was like cycling along and this
00:58:45
other person was cycling along and we
00:58:47
just started having a chat and it was
00:58:49
starting to get dark and I got a little
00:58:51
lost and I was like do you know where
00:58:52
this area is he's like yeah yeah but
00:58:54
it's kind of dark like do you want to
00:58:57
you know um do you want some company
00:59:00
like you're alone on a dangerous road
00:59:02
like not the best for cycling I was like
00:59:05
no but I need a p place to like pitch my
00:59:07
tent and he's like okay I live right
00:59:08
over there you can come pitch your tent
00:59:10
in my yard this is like so kiwi
00:59:13
Hospitality culture yeah and so I went
00:59:15
pitched by Ted at his yard like cooked
00:59:17
dinner and hung out with him and then
00:59:19
the next day I woke up and it was like
00:59:21
you know 5:00 a.m. or 600 a.m. we're
00:59:23
about to get going and he he had his
00:59:25
bike ready to go was like what are you
00:59:26
doing he's like I'd really like to join
00:59:27
you for a few days on the road would you
00:59:29
mind he ended up cycling with me all the
00:59:33
way from wellon through Hamilton like
00:59:36
like he cycled with me for a while it
00:59:38
was quite a few days his name's Rod he's
00:59:40
awesome he's super cool and he's still
00:59:42
to this day he's still he messaged me
00:59:44
this morning he's like I just saw you on
00:59:45
the news how are you doing like he's
00:59:47
super cool super cool guy he was going
00:59:49
through a bit of a tough time like
00:59:51
during that period as well like just
00:59:53
split up with his wife had a bunch of
00:59:54
daughters like trying trying to navigate
00:59:57
everything and so he jumped on the road
00:59:58
with me and we just had a cycle together
01:00:00
and like talked about life it was
01:00:02
fantastic yeah it's so cool isn't it
01:00:05
yeah yeah it's funny how how sometimes
01:00:07
you find people in life when when you
01:00:09
both need each other yeah yeah he's
01:00:11
great he's a good guy yeah oh yeah so um
01:00:15
yes so so back to the K2 thing so you
01:00:17
realized before you you before you get
01:00:20
to that body that you saw on Facebook
01:00:21
that it's probably not your brother yeah
01:00:24
yeah how do you how do you reach that
01:00:26
just kind of dissected it just based off
01:00:27
of the other teams that were hit by
01:00:30
Avalanches at that time right so you
01:00:33
realize you're dead and your brother
01:00:34
were on a different part of the mountain
01:00:35
or different side yeah they most likely
01:00:37
were swept over the Chinese border
01:00:41
okay oh sweeped over God that sounds
01:00:43
awful MH so so so who do you think it is
01:00:46
just just some other unlucky so I called
01:00:49
around to like a lot of the families who
01:00:51
had lost people around that time period
01:00:54
and asked for their permission to like
01:00:56
bury the body parts things like that
01:00:59
so everyone would have would have been
01:01:01
yes yeah yeah of course yeah they didn't
01:01:03
want them out there cuz people were
01:01:05
taking photos and putting it on Facebook
01:01:06
yeah it's outrageous Facebook and like
01:01:08
so they they were all like pretty
01:01:10
grateful that somebody was going to at
01:01:12
least cover them treat it respectfully
01:01:15
yeah and so Al so you find you find the
01:01:19
body body parts yeah body parts okay oh
01:01:22
Jesus
01:01:23
oh and you do you've got a like a DNA
01:01:26
kit
01:01:29
mhm
01:01:32
yeah what what do you teasted I'm not
01:01:35
going to go into that it was very
01:01:38
graphic it was a lot it was you know it
01:01:40
took me a long time to kind of come
01:01:42
through all of it um and I think like at
01:01:46
this point in my life like for my own
01:01:50
sanity and emotional healing like it was
01:01:54
documented in a book and put as a time
01:01:56
capsule put up on a shelf and I can
01:01:59
navigate away to move on from it or else
01:02:02
I'll just be stuck in this time warp of
01:02:03
concentrating on that particular period
01:02:06
of my life yeah fair enough yeah what is
01:02:09
your relationship with with therapy you
01:02:12
the like therapy since them you
01:02:14
Professional Health oh yeah yeah I've
01:02:16
gone in and out of therapy yeah I mean I
01:02:19
probably wouldn't be like working or
01:02:22
sitting here and talking to you if I
01:02:23
didn't do some kind of therapy
01:02:26
yeah like the the PTSD from that
01:02:30
something like that that whole
01:02:31
experience you know I just can't imagine
01:02:33
it yeah PTSD from that and then just
01:02:36
like in general just navigating life
01:02:40
through all of that through you know
01:02:42
through b me this last year was gnarly
01:02:46
you know
01:02:47
I this last year why oh just because I
01:02:51
you know I met a man fell in love and he
01:02:56
was diagnosed with a brain tumor and you
01:02:58
know spent two two months in hospital
01:03:03
where he
01:03:04
was kind of surrendering to the process
01:03:07
he it was very you
01:03:11
know hard he couldn't eat he couldn't
01:03:13
swallow he couldn't do any of it he had
01:03:15
to kind of come to terms with what his
01:03:17
life was
01:03:20
and um watching all of that was really
01:03:23
challenging um and then just navigating
01:03:27
life between two worlds for the most
01:03:30
part you know I'm in business school
01:03:32
right now which is like more like my
01:03:34
grandfather's world where it's you know
01:03:37
I'm at Yale which is a very elite
01:03:39
University that's like the campus is
01:03:42
like historic and beautiful and my class
01:03:44
is full of incredibly successful people
01:03:46
at the top of their field and it's a
01:03:49
very very different style of life than
01:03:53
the Adventure World the house and
01:03:56
twinfalls jumping off of a bridge daily
01:03:58
and so trying to step between those two
01:04:00
worlds is really really hard it's really
01:04:04
hard to navigate life between two polar
01:04:07
Opposite Worlds you seem to just
01:04:10
navigate it like a boss though like if
01:04:11
you see you on Instagram you're there in
01:04:12
a business suit or whatever and then
01:04:15
you'll be um you know going for a month
01:04:18
without showering somewhere around no I
01:04:21
navigate okay but I think it's really
01:04:23
really important that every everyone in
01:04:26
the world understands that Instagram is
01:04:28
not real like I feel like it is so
01:04:32
important people get that because in in
01:04:36
life in general you can look at
01:04:37
somebody's Instagram picture and think
01:04:39
that they're a certain way and
01:04:41
categorized by you know what their
01:04:44
tagline says or what they're wearing or
01:04:46
whatever it may be but life behind
01:04:48
Instagram is full of raw human emotion
01:04:52
that a photo and a video can't capture M
01:04:56
and I think that that's where things
01:04:58
like social media get really dangerous
01:05:00
and that's why I love literature because
01:05:02
I think that words can capture emotion
01:05:06
in a way that an Instagram post has a
01:05:10
hard time
01:05:12
doing yeah I think even someone that's
01:05:14
really open on social media it's still a
01:05:17
curated curated version of your life
01:05:19
isn't it and it's even if you um share
01:05:22
your most vulnerable moments they still
01:05:24
moments that you are prepared to share
01:05:25
so it is curated by Nature moments you
01:05:27
are prepared to share usually with some
01:05:29
kind of intention associated with it
01:05:31
like you want people to give you you
01:05:33
know add a girl and love and
01:05:36
appreciation or you want you know a
01:05:38
brand to promote you or you want like
01:05:41
usually you're sharing with a curated
01:05:45
approach or you probably wouldn't be
01:05:47
sharing yeah has has your your husband's
01:05:49
Health now he's good John was cleared to
01:05:52
jump back in January so he's been you
01:05:55
know jumping off
01:05:57
buildings oh my God if I was recing from
01:06:01
brain cancer there wouldn't be top my to
01:06:03
do we're all different though aren't we
01:06:06
wow oh that's cool that must been yeah
01:06:09
[ __ ] hell cuz you know there's um
01:06:11
yeah you read about resilience and stuff
01:06:13
and people say tough stuff yeah makes
01:06:15
you more resilient and stuff but I don't
01:06:16
do it feel like that for you you're like
01:06:18
okay well uh I went through this as a
01:06:20
kid I lost my dad and my brother I can
01:06:22
handle this or does it just feel like
01:06:24
it's another gigantic in front of you
01:06:26
you know it's so funny I read a quote
01:06:28
the other day that was like
01:06:31
um just because they carry it well
01:06:35
doesn't mean it's not
01:06:37
heavy like and I think that's very
01:06:42
poignant like
01:06:45
um I think in general I carry stuff very
01:06:49
well because I had to to survive for so
01:06:52
long um but you know it's an ultimate
01:06:57
question
01:06:58
of existentialism of our purpose on this
01:07:02
Earth and why we're here and what we
01:07:04
want to discover and what we want to
01:07:05
figure out and I think that I've gotten
01:07:08
as far as I have because I'm able to
01:07:11
power through stuff and really go
01:07:12
through it and feel everything that
01:07:15
comes over me with it and try to
01:07:17
navigate my way through it um which I'm
01:07:21
not I'm not sure if that comes from just
01:07:24
survival instincts
01:07:26
maybe it will take me years more of
01:07:28
therapy to figure this out but um but
01:07:32
whatever it comes from I'm glad I have
01:07:35
it because I know a lot of people who
01:07:38
probably wouldn't be able to survive
01:07:40
through a lot of the stuff that I've
01:07:42
been through
01:07:44
recently yeah it's a lot oh not what do
01:07:47
you mean recently like just the brain
01:07:49
tumor and all that okay like recent
01:07:51
recent right well I guess the whole
01:07:54
thing yeah I just wonder we're going
01:07:56
into the [ __ ] show life then what's your
01:07:59
time frame for reason because he answer
01:08:01
it's a lot um how long did it take you
01:08:03
to to um forgive your dad and make peace
01:08:07
with that sort of
01:08:09
relationship you know what it really
01:08:11
really helped spending a lot of time in
01:08:13
the mountains yeah that's like the most
01:08:15
healing thing ever when you go through
01:08:17
anything tragic is just spending time in
01:08:19
nature and the mountains and you know
01:08:23
it's funny I I went out to
01:08:26
yesterday I guess and just sat on the
01:08:29
beach and did like little meditation for
01:08:31
a while and I I forget like how calming
01:08:35
and peaceful
01:08:36
and relaxing and healing nature is
01:08:41
sometimes so it's important to kind of
01:08:42
take yourself out and stick yourself in
01:08:44
nature for a minute and that's I think
01:08:47
what really helped with the processing
01:08:49
of the stuff with Dan denol and that's
01:08:52
why I did the second you know the when I
01:08:55
came back during that second book was
01:08:58
like cycling around New Zealand that's
01:09:00
why I did it that way to be out in
01:09:01
nature and to try to heal and process
01:09:03
through all of it
01:09:05
yeah and what about your um relationship
01:09:08
with your mom how's how's that now you
01:09:10
guys good yeah yeah I just talked to her
01:09:12
the other day yeah we navigate life you
01:09:14
know in terms of figuring out um
01:09:18
figuring out our relationship we're
01:09:20
still figuring it out I think you're
01:09:21
always kind of figuring out
01:09:22
relationships with your parents yeah
01:09:24
yeah yeah yeah so constant work in
01:09:26
progress um but yeah L losing your dad
01:09:30
did was that sort of a catalyst for like
01:09:32
healing things with your mom or
01:09:33
realizing [ __ ] I I can't put this off
01:09:35
cuz who knows how long we've got yeah I
01:09:37
think that definitely plays a part in it
01:09:40
like whenever you're you go through like
01:09:41
a horrific or tragic
01:09:43
situation um it definitely plays a part
01:09:46
in determining what you want the rest of
01:09:48
your life to look like and not putting
01:09:50
things
01:09:53
off yeah
01:09:55
oh
01:09:57
um sh sorry this just there's another
01:09:59
thing that we haven't even talked about
01:10:01
your your silent Retreats yeah you like
01:10:03
where about Thailand no most of mine are
01:10:06
done in Thailand yeah so I did one like
01:10:09
seven days October yeah I just did one
01:10:11
on October how many have you done you've
01:10:13
done more than one I think I've done
01:10:14
five now oh my God yeah I've done a few
01:10:19
seven s days so you just sit there in
01:10:20
silence just playing on your phone
01:10:22
scrolling on Instagram you're not allow
01:10:23
phones no phones no books no writing
01:10:26
materials no nothing so just literally
01:10:28
alone in your own thoughts literally a
01:10:29
change of clothes and a
01:10:34
toothbrush why do you keep going back do
01:10:37
you get something different from it each
01:10:38
time yeah oh my God it's so good for you
01:10:41
have you ever like sat in silence for
01:10:44
nine 10 hours a day terrified of my own
01:10:46
thoughts yeah exactly yeah most people
01:10:49
are Stephen it's completely normal most
01:10:51
people are terrified of their own
01:10:53
thoughts right it's really scary it's
01:10:55
very like very
01:10:57
confronting you usually lose a few
01:10:59
people in the group by the time you're
01:11:01
done yeah you know it's very hard why
01:11:05
yeah why do you keep going back what
01:11:08
what do you what do you learn do you
01:11:09
learn something different things each
01:11:10
time every every time I learn something
01:11:12
different just about myself about what I
01:11:15
want about my navigation about yeah I
01:11:17
think I think meditation is super
01:11:20
important very hard way harder than
01:11:23
jumping off a cliff that's for damn sure
01:11:25
like to me like J me off cliff you're
01:11:28
it's a bit of a [ __ ] move like you sit
01:11:31
you sit in silent meditation for like
01:11:33
most of your life in a monastery in the
01:11:36
middle of you know the Himalayas you got
01:11:39
my full respect for sure why why why
01:11:42
aren't you allowed um like like writing
01:11:44
utensils surely it be good to like write
01:11:46
some stuff because you're the idea is
01:11:48
you're supposed to completely clear your
01:11:49
mind of all thoughts you're supposed to
01:11:52
be in the moment completely present
01:11:54
clear clear your mind of all
01:11:56
thoughts and if you have a phone or
01:11:59
writing utensils or a book or anything
01:12:01
else that is evoking thoughts right but
01:12:04
are you ever free from thoughts I don't
01:12:07
you you can reach you can reach that
01:12:09
stage in in meditation depending on what
01:12:11
style of meditation you do vasana
01:12:15
meditation I think that you can you can
01:12:17
reach I definitely have reached moments
01:12:21
of clarity of thought um Clarity of mind
01:12:25
mind so an ability
01:12:29
to concentrate solely on your breathing
01:12:32
and nothing
01:12:34
more I I studied um TM Transcendental
01:12:37
Meditation I I I did that religiously
01:12:40
for maybe five or six years I've been
01:12:42
with it since but yet you see you
01:12:45
meditate what you're talking about yeah
01:12:46
but no but yeah 20 minutes twice a day
01:12:49
and as soon as you have a thought oh I'm
01:12:51
not thinking about anything that that in
01:12:53
itself is a thought yeah so they come
01:12:55
back in but I I can't imagine being in
01:12:57
silence for 7 days do you do do you find
01:13:00
yourself like just weeping
01:13:01
uncontrollably over
01:13:03
times the first Meditation Retreat I
01:13:06
ever did was after d and joli died and
01:13:10
absolutely I found myself weeping
01:13:13
um but since then no I wouldn't say I
01:13:17
find myself weeping um it depends on
01:13:19
what I'm going through in the period of
01:13:21
my life that I'm going into a Meditation
01:13:23
Retreat um
01:13:26
but yeah I I think it it can evoke
01:13:30
emotion but the point of it is is to
01:13:32
clear your mind of
01:13:33
thought so why do you keep going back I
01:13:37
think I'll probably is it like a reset I
01:13:40
think I'll be a student of meditation
01:13:42
for my entire life um I don't practice
01:13:46
on a daily basis like I'm not doing the
01:13:48
20 you know two times 20 minutes a day I
01:13:51
don't I don't do that on a daily basis I
01:13:53
just go all in on a retreat that's what
01:13:56
I do most of my life I go all in like
01:14:00
like if I'm going to meditate I'll just
01:14:02
go seven days of Silence like I'll just
01:14:04
go
01:14:07
hard you should CL out no I want to do
01:14:10
that one there yeah that's kind of how I
01:14:12
do life in general yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:14:14
just all or nothing right I just figure
01:14:16
I mean it's [ __ ] short like why not
01:14:18
if you're going to do it you might as
01:14:19
well go all the way yeah um yeah do do
01:14:23
you want to have a family
01:14:25
yeah I mean I think that's something
01:14:28
that
01:14:30
um you know I'm at the age now where if
01:14:33
I'm if I'm going to do it I think that
01:14:36
it's something that should be thought
01:14:38
about a lot more than most people think
01:14:43
about it so you not necessarily ready
01:14:46
but you you realize the biological clock
01:14:49
no no I just I I mean in general in
01:14:51
society people will have kids without
01:14:53
really thinking if they want to have
01:14:54
kids kids yeah and I think it's very
01:14:57
important that that's something that is
01:14:59
um
01:15:01
both people's priority is we're going to
01:15:04
have a child and we're going to
01:15:05
concentrate on this child not we're
01:15:07
going to have a child because Society
01:15:08
tells us to have child or we're going to
01:15:10
have a child because we just want a
01:15:11
child like it should be you you really
01:15:15
understand the commitment that you're
01:15:16
getting into and maybe this is my
01:15:17
childhood abandonment postt truma
01:15:21
[ __ ] but I think that if you're going to
01:15:23
have a child you should really want that
01:15:26
child and you should really concentrate
01:15:29
your energy and your effort and shape
01:15:30
your life around bringing that child
01:15:32
into this world um or else it's unfair
01:15:35
to the child so I'm not sure if I'm at
01:15:37
that stage or not yeah how if you do
01:15:41
decide to become a parent how would you
01:15:42
be different to your own
01:15:45
parents I think i' do things a lot
01:15:48
differently than my parents did them um
01:15:50
but there are a lot of elements that my
01:15:52
my parents put into their
01:15:55
uh roles and responsibilities that I
01:15:57
would include like my mom was very
01:16:00
nurturing early on and very very um
01:16:04
loving and used like holistic medicine
01:16:07
different approaches had us eat or
01:16:08
organic you know couldn't watch screens
01:16:11
like all of that stuff absolutely
01:16:13
brilliant like I would definitely take
01:16:14
that and apply that my dad's you know
01:16:17
wild side and exposure to Nature and um
01:16:21
I think those are all really really
01:16:24
important elements
01:16:25
to raising a healthy child but I think
01:16:28
there is elements of stability that I
01:16:30
would probably do quite differently yeah
01:16:33
um and then it's also like you know if
01:16:36
that if that's something that that my
01:16:38
partner wants and what what our
01:16:41
concentrations would be because I think
01:16:43
that um you know his his whole life
01:16:46
rotates around base obviously so yeah
01:16:51
it's hard isn't it because I can
01:16:52
understand you you want stability for
01:16:54
your kids but you know by normal
01:16:57
conventional standards I suppose like
01:16:59
you and your husband are not like an
01:17:01
overly conventional couple yeah you're
01:17:04
not the white packet fence couple you
01:17:05
know what I mean no definitely not um
01:17:08
but we have a lot of friends who are
01:17:10
able to navigate children while
01:17:12
continuing to kind of Life yeah yeah and
01:17:16
I would never want a child to feel that
01:17:19
we resent them in any way for not living
01:17:21
that style of life so I think that
01:17:24
that's like an important navigation of
01:17:27
of Parenthood um but I you know I'm I'm
01:17:31
also a really firm believer and
01:17:35
um I I work a lot like I run a company
01:17:38
and I'm I work way too much to be
01:17:40
realistic I live in America which is a
01:17:42
capitalistic culture and I work a Fu ton
01:17:46
and um we live in a culture where that's
01:17:50
okay and I personally believe that like
01:17:55
I don't I I wouldn't want to have a
01:17:56
child that I I had nannies raising like
01:18:00
I'd want a child that I could I could
01:18:02
breastfeed and I could be there and it
01:18:04
could be like a pure connection that's
01:18:06
the only real way to bring a child into
01:18:08
this world in my belief like I I don't
01:18:10
know if I really agree with current
01:18:12
culture of the way that children are
01:18:14
being
01:18:15
raised um so yeah it's something I'm
01:18:18
thinking about navigating yeah well you
01:18:20
by something you just said about um
01:18:22
you're having your own business and
01:18:23
working a [ __ ] ton you you but also
01:18:25
somehow and I think this is inspiring as
01:18:27
well you managed to fit everything else
01:18:29
in you managed to fit in these you
01:18:31
[ __ ] one month Expeditions or
01:18:33
whatever where you're off the phone or
01:18:35
you one week silent Retreats where
01:18:36
you're not on the phone I also don't
01:18:38
have a family and that makes it a lot
01:18:40
easier like employes that's a family in
01:18:43
a way and that took a lot of navigation
01:18:45
to figure out a system where you know at
01:18:49
one point I was way too big I had way
01:18:51
too many employees and I became a people
01:18:53
manager and I was like [ __ ] all right
01:18:55
let me get rid of some of you um and now
01:18:58
I have a really like we have an amazing
01:19:01
team at dap the Publishing Company
01:19:03
amazing team like I know they're
01:19:05
handling everything right now I can be
01:19:07
on this book tour [ __ ] sorted right um
01:19:11
same thing with you know with Denali
01:19:14
foundation with the nonprofit like I
01:19:16
know that it's sorted it's solid right
01:19:19
same thing with the you know rental
01:19:21
property I know it's the rental
01:19:23
properties are getting paid so now I've
01:19:25
been able to kind of navigate a system
01:19:27
where it gives me a little bit more time
01:19:29
but I'm still figuring it out it's not
01:19:31
[ __ ] easy like and that's something
01:19:34
that
01:19:37
um yeah I think Instagram's really
01:19:39
dangerous when it comes to stuff like
01:19:41
business because I see um constantly
01:19:45
like the the entrepreneurs and the like
01:19:47
hustle culture and work really hard I've
01:19:50
been doing this [ __ ] since I was 16
01:19:51
years old I legitimately
01:19:54
have been doing this like half of my
01:19:58
life and I can tell you right now like
01:20:02
the the the the way that it's presented
01:20:06
entrepreneurship and owning companies
01:20:07
and all of
01:20:09
that not not a [ __ ] walk in the park
01:20:12
like takes stress Beyond stress like you
01:20:17
your ability to deal with situations if
01:20:20
anything my life of
01:20:25
traumas prepared me to deal with
01:20:27
business in a way that most people
01:20:29
couldn't handle because business in
01:20:31
general trying to run a company and have
01:20:33
employees [ __ ] hard really really
01:20:37
hard and we struggled my husband and I
01:20:40
struggled a lot with that that my work
01:20:42
ethic and my mentality towards business
01:20:44
is very very different than than most
01:20:48
people's because it requires that to
01:20:50
keep a company running especially a
01:20:52
company in media especially a company in
01:20:54
books
01:20:55
right so I think that's like an
01:20:59
important thing to note is yes I now am
01:21:02
at a point where I can do both I can go
01:21:05
to a silent Retreat and still have a
01:21:07
company running but there was a period
01:21:09
of my life where I couldn't where 100%
01:21:13
of my focus was trying to get from one
01:21:16
month to the next and navigate how to
01:21:19
keep the company running so where most
01:21:21
people start out in their career in
01:21:23
their what they come out of college in
01:21:26
the states they'll go to college maybe
01:21:28
they're 25 when they really start in
01:21:29
their career right and then they reach a
01:21:32
certain point what's 17 years plus 25 25
01:21:36
35 42 42 that's when most people start
01:21:39
really becoming successful that's when
01:21:41
most people have reached the point in
01:21:42
their life where they can maybe start to
01:21:44
navigate how do I take this family
01:21:46
vacation how do I do that right so if
01:21:48
you think of my life I'm actually like
01:21:51
way earlier than most people but I've
01:21:53
worked as much as most 42 year olds now
01:21:57
right because I
01:21:58
started because I started so young so
01:22:01
when people look at my life now and
01:22:03
they're like you're able to navigate it
01:22:05
really well you're successful it's
01:22:06
because I've been doing it for so
01:22:08
[ __ ] long that's why yeah yeah and
01:22:12
that
01:22:12
Scrappy um Street Fighter mentality or
01:22:16
whatever you want to call it it probably
01:22:17
prepared you well for the life of an
01:22:19
entrepreneur or a startup and it got me
01:22:22
to a certain point now like that's why I
01:22:25
chose to go to school this year is
01:22:27
because now I'm like I'm at this point
01:22:30
but my you know I'm in rooms with
01:22:32
congresswoman and sometimes ambassadors
01:22:35
and I'm like okay I got to get a little
01:22:37
bit of formal education because my
01:22:39
scrappiness will only get me so far it
01:22:41
can get me to the door but in order to
01:22:43
look good while I walk in the door and
01:22:44
have a proper conversation I should
01:22:46
probably refine it a little bit you know
01:22:48
yeah what um what what are your goals
01:22:50
for the are you are you a goal goal
01:22:52
Setter you got a the like the um the
01:22:55
mountain stuff you do that must that
01:22:56
requires a fa bit of planning but is
01:22:58
there planning in other aspects of your
01:22:59
life like do you have a 5year plan or a
01:23:01
10-year plan yeah vision board all that
01:23:03
[ __ ] I learned that actually from I have
01:23:05
a couple of authors who were like
01:23:07
motivational speakers and all that so
01:23:09
they do vision boards um right now I'm
01:23:12
working actually I'm working on my next
01:23:13
book it's called the comfort zone and
01:23:16
it's more of a business book than it is
01:23:18
straight Adventure but the idea is to
01:23:20
take elements from my adventurous
01:23:22
mentality speaking of being in Two
01:23:24
Worlds
01:23:25
and applying them to to business so like
01:23:29
um we have this thing in the office
01:23:31
called The Hit List that's like all of
01:23:34
the people that we want to sign as
01:23:35
authors and then this like it's stupid
01:23:38
but I used to like stalk them all and
01:23:40
like to try to get them signed oh I saw
01:23:42
a clip online about this the the
01:23:43
Goosebumps guy yeah RL Stein is one yeah
01:23:46
yeah yeah Goosebumps famous um sort of
01:23:48
like teen series Kid series one of the
01:23:50
most famous in the
01:23:52
world huge author huge author chipped
01:23:55
away yeah for four years I stalked him
01:23:57
and he finally signed with
01:23:59
me that that mentality that you're
01:24:02
talking about that scrabby don't take no
01:24:04
for an answerer mentality applying it to
01:24:07
um business and then taking the lessons
01:24:11
that I learned within that and it's
01:24:13
really all about like pushing yourself
01:24:14
out of your comfort zone wait what is
01:24:17
your comfort zone my comfort zone yeah
01:24:20
is is is is your comfort zone as bizarre
01:24:22
as this would sound like when you
01:24:23
jumping or is it when you're at home on
01:24:25
the Cofer with your husband what is
01:24:27
it that's a really great question I'll
01:24:30
tell you what's not in my comfort zone
01:24:32
that I'm exploring right now that will
01:24:33
probably be in the next book is some of
01:24:35
the stuff we talked about like um
01:24:38
navigating past trauma mhm that's like
01:24:42
not in my comfort zone at all because
01:24:44
I've always just powered through
01:24:45
everything been like a Survivor like you
01:24:48
can get through
01:24:49
it the tough way yeah but I've never
01:24:53
like sat down and really introspectively
01:24:56
looked at okay does this does this
01:25:00
determination and motivation to um
01:25:03
achieve and be successful come from a
01:25:05
place of wanting to do it or does it
01:25:08
come from a place of feeling the need to
01:25:10
do it because of abandonment issues or
01:25:12
past trauma or any of that stuff so I'm
01:25:14
exploring that now through therapy and I
01:25:17
think that's really outside of my
01:25:19
comfort zone there's nothing just like
01:25:20
you said with sitting alone with your
01:25:22
own thoughts is terrifying for you right
01:25:24
like there's nothing more terrifying to
01:25:26
me than the exploration of who I am and
01:25:32
that is really outside of my comfort
01:25:34
zone so but I feel like you've done more
01:25:36
of that than what most of us believer do
01:25:38
probably which is really sad to be
01:25:40
honest like I feel like half of the
01:25:43
reason we're on this Earth is to explore
01:25:45
that right not just to live in this kind
01:25:47
of really boring bubble it's to explore
01:25:50
that [ __ ] not just physically but
01:25:52
emotionally as well yeah I suppose after
01:25:55
losing your brother and your dad on the
01:25:56
same day in such a dramatic fashion you
01:25:59
know you realize the importance of that
01:26:00
more than most of us yeah absolutely um
01:26:04
and if you could go back and tell your
01:26:05
teenage self something what would it be
01:26:07
if you could go back to that that girl
01:26:09
stealing from the warehouse in Hawks Bay
01:26:11
the
01:26:13
FY what would you tell her you tell her
01:26:15
everything's going to be all right keep
01:26:17
keep doing what you're doing what would
01:26:19
you
01:26:21
say don't don't don't don't go too hard
01:26:23
on your dad like CU his time he's
01:26:26
limited no no I think I
01:26:29
think I think it would be really
01:26:31
important this is a great question by
01:26:33
the way you should ask every guest this
01:26:34
question it's a fantastic question
01:26:36
because it makes you really really
01:26:38
contemplate I think if I were to talk
01:26:41
to this scrappy little girl in the WTI
01:26:45
fatty who just got arrested for stealing
01:26:48
I think I would tell her
01:26:52
that it's okay to be Scrappy it'll get
01:26:56
you really far in life but at some point
01:26:59
you need to stop and take a look at why
01:27:04
you're being Scrappy I think that would
01:27:06
be really really important it's hard
01:27:09
though isn't it because I I get the
01:27:10
feeling maybe this is psycho analyzing a
01:27:12
bit too much but even sitting up with
01:27:14
something like um a Publishing Company
01:27:16
it almost feels like a [ __ ] you to your
01:27:18
dad at the time you know because it's
01:27:21
you know it's complete opposite to like
01:27:24
yeah climbing the world's highest
01:27:25
mountain isn't it city of a Publishing
01:27:27
Company could be and it's funny because
01:27:29
it's like you know that publishing
01:27:31
company I mean we have over a 100 books
01:27:33
that we've published and we've worked
01:27:34
with some incredible authors and I've
01:27:36
helped other people tell their life
01:27:38
stories and it ended up being such a you
01:27:40
know such a great experience um but you
01:27:44
know it's it's it's an interesting
01:27:46
navigation of like
01:27:49
um how much of your life is done for you
01:27:53
and how much of your life is done
01:27:55
circumstantially and how much of your
01:27:56
life is done because of your parents and
01:28:00
I think you can ask that to [ __ ]
01:28:01
anyone right yeah absolutely you can hey
01:28:05
this has been a great chat it's been
01:28:07
really how's it been for you it's been
01:28:09
awesome I all I can think of is tickle
01:28:11
Tuesdays I'm like drinking all the water
01:28:13
thinking of tickle Tuesdays hey it's
01:28:16
nice to finally connect with you I've
01:28:17
done um yeah so much uh reading and
01:28:20
researching I feel like I already know
01:28:21
you cuz of your voicey Stu yeah yeah
01:28:23
yeah oh God the years at the edge I got
01:28:26
all climing we me just tinkled Tuesday
01:28:28
like out of all the out of all the
01:28:30
little features and segments I did in 30
01:28:33
years of radio that's the [ __ ] one
01:28:35
you remember yeah I mean how bad did
01:28:36
your parents [ __ ] you up that you
01:28:39
Tuesdays badly I think they I think they
01:28:42
all they all [ __ ] us up hey yeah
01:28:44
everyone has like a slight Grudge on
01:28:45
their shoulder about the parents but if
01:28:47
you're a parent now like um you might
01:28:48
think you're doing a lot better than
01:28:49
what your parents did but you you're
01:28:51
[ __ ] you're [ __ ] your kid up yeah
01:28:53
yeah absolutely that's why when you ask
01:28:54
me about kids I'm like you you're going
01:28:56
to [ __ ] them up no matter what so and
01:28:59
the way I see it is like parents are
01:29:01
going to [ __ ] up their kids no matter
01:29:02
what so if I chose my parents in this
01:29:05
lifetime I did a damn good job of
01:29:07
picking the ones that would like put me
01:29:09
in tough ass position so I would come
01:29:11
out a lot more gritty well yeah you are
01:29:14
gritty you're a gangster you're you're a
01:29:16
badass you're a Savage and it's been
01:29:17
wonderful to sit down with you today
01:29:19
likewise sequa dangelo Schmid Schmid we
01:29:23
going with Schmid sure why not we'll
01:29:25
just make up more names I like seoa I
01:29:27
feel like it's Unique enough that would
01:29:29
be like a life you ask me my life goals
01:29:31
I think I if I could get to a point
01:29:33
where people just know me as seoa that's
01:29:35
like pretty badass it is got Beyonce
01:29:38
energy to it one name only required one
01:29:41
name only I love it he thanks for your
01:29:43
time today it's been great good luck for
01:29:44
the future thanks d
