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[Music]
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Kiwis love it
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first. Like Finn, we're making
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[Music]
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[Applause]
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waves. Generate switch online today.
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David Less, welcome to my podcast. Oh,
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thank you. Yeah, you're my running
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companion. Oh, yeah. I I didn't realize
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listen to her research, but yeah, you
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you still run. Yeah, I run. Well, I try
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and run most days. Yeah. And uh when I
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run, I listen to you. Oh, actually.
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Yeah. Podcast. Well, I always listen to
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podcasts or or things like that. And
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I've listened to, you know, all your
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mainly your sports ones, but listen to
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Julie Christie.
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What an opening. What an opening. Oh,
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this is unbelievable. Well, we're off to
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a off to a great Well, this is really
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humbling. I actually um I I wasn't going
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to bring this up, but um you and I have
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never met. Eh, I don't think I don't
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think so either. I was in um New World
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last week and uh you were in the selfs
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serve um next to me and I was told about
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this and you were too scared to talk to
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me. I was like, "Is that David Lis? Is
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it not David Lis?" And when I could
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positively identify you, I was like, "Is
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now the the the moment to ask him to
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come on my podcast or not?" And I let
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the moment go. And then the ne the very
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next day um one of your publicity team
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messaged me asking if if you'd be a
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guest on the podcast. It was very funny
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because um another podcast had asked me
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to go on it and I just said no don't
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like them and better not say that I
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suppose in case
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who it was but then I said no and then
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one of the publicists came back and said
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what about you and I said well he's
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great I listen to him. Oh amazing. Oh
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well thank you. This is your very first
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um podcast. First? Yeah. Podcast as
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such? Yes. Yeah. Lots of interviews but
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not podcasts. There's there's so much to
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talk about. Um yeah. First of all, like
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the Oh, I mean there's so many
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directions to go in. Like I I really
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want to get to know um the, you know,
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David Lis, you know, beyond the
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investigates series. Um but then there's
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so many questions. I said on Instagram
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you're coming and there's so many
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questions from people. So what do you
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want to do first? focus on missing
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pieces or focus on David Lass. You're
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the boss. That's true. Well, first of
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all, um on Instagram, uh one of the
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questions I got was um during his time
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in news, was Kate Hawksby the loveliest
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and best news reader he ever worked for.
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Did Kate send it in? She did. She did.
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And then she said, "Give him my love."
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No, she she was fantastic. She Yeah.
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Amazing to work with. Just so um
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skillful. I mean, I can't remember what
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it was. with some big event on and we
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were doing live and it was just she just
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carried it without him blinking an eye,
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you know. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. I've been
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Is that all right, Kate? I've been I
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message you like every 3 months or so to
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try and get her to come on the podcast.
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I'll eventually wear her down. I've got
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a huge amount of admiration for her and
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Mike. Yeah. No. Yeah. So, um yeah, David
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LZ, um your TV show launched in 2009, 16
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years ago,
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eight or nine, I'm not sure. Yeah,
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you've done your research. Um, names
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including Missing Pieces, Lost and
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Found, and David Lomass Investigates.
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Why? Why the is is this a network thing
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jumping from network to network? Do you
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lose the the rights to the name or No.
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Um, like NZ on Air has this sort of
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policy that every after four funding
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rounds, you need to reinvent yourself.
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And so each time you have to reinvent
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yourself, you have to change the name.
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So, Missing Pieces was 30 minutes and we
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did two stories and a what we call a
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call out, you know, asking, "Has anybody
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seen this person?" And then um so that
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was fantastic that very short and it was
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sort of um I'm looking for the dad.
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There's your dad. Go and say hello. And
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that was the story. But then we went,
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excuse me, um, then we actually went to
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a thing called,
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um, Family Secret, um, which we just did
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for a year, which broadened it out and
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we'd look for people, we would we'd
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solve mysteries, but the
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network was terrible, the network wanted
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to go back to um, just strictly family
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stuff. So we started lost and found and
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that was um two stories to the hour and
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sometimes just one story and it got much
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more complicated and involved and uh and
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then we got to then we had to change our
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name again and nobody could think of a
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name so they said call it call it David
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Lis investigates and we've done that and
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um and next year we're going to do a new
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one again which is going to be called
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Breakthrough with David Lis. So yeah,
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for the same reason the NZ on every in
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how does how does a [ __ ] like seven days
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get away with it? Well, yeah, there's
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lots of um sort of funny things like
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they fund uh country calendar. They
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don't tell country calendar. They don't
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fully fund country calendar. They don't
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tell them to change their name. But
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it's, you know, but it is good because
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it reinvigorates you. you have to think
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about what you are and what you're doing
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and um and look look how he can change
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stuff and and it gives the viewer a sort
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of um new look too. So that's good. So
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all these different names but it's all
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basically basically the same sort of
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concept and in that time there's been
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over aundred stories. Oh many more than
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that. Um probably three or 400 to hear.
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Unbelievable. And over 12,000 requests
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for help.
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Um it'll be yeah definitely over 12,000.
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Yes, it might be up around 15 by now.
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But when when I say that there's a lot
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of them um which write in and you know
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say I'm trying to find what happened to
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my grandfather, you know, well and and
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the person's 70. So we're not going to
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find a grandfather alive. So those ones
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sort of sort of um add a lot to the
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number of people who have applied,
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right? Like a junk pile. Um my words,
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not yours. Yeah. Well, but we we're
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looking to find people living, you know,
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we want to give an answer. And sometimes
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they're dead, but we find a living
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relative who who knows the person, but u
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to to search for some the history of a
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dead relative. That's not our our our
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story. Yeah. Yeah, cuz you you wouldn't
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get that TV moment at the end. Would you
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have someone running towards a
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gravestone? There's no Yeah, that's
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right. We've had a couple of tears at
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gravestones um when giving an answer.
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But uh yeah, and um the other ones which
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we get a lot of is um the impossible
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ones and um it's you know uh I had an
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affair in a pub and um you know I can't
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remember the guy's name, you know. So
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you can do DNA and get answers to those,
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but in the end if you just do you're
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just doing that and you do a DNA test,
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it's not much of a story, right? Yeah.
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You need a couple of strands of
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information to work on, don't you? And
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and um for most of these cases that have
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been on TV, you've done the flower
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technique. No. Uh no. Was that a new
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thing? No. No. Well, we started doing it
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when um the phone book started
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disappearing, you know, and
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um and we just do it
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when someone's in Australia or somewhere
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and you can't get to them and you you
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think, well, what do I do? And how do
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you you used to be able to send a
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telegram, too? I mean, you not in my not
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for this, but when we were younger. Um
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but how else do you do it? I mean, you
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can't you can hire someone to go and
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knock on the door, but it's cheaper to
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send flowers and you know, someone who
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gets flowers will always look at them
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and said, "What's all this about?" And
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and they'll think hard about it because,
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you know, there's been money spent to
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find them and all that sort of thing.
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So, yeah. So, it works and it's amazing
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how often it works. I mean, we actually
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did it to a woman in Christ Church who
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um I you know, we knew her address and I
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just couldn't get hold of her and I
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thought, "Oh, I'll send flowers." Rang
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up New Brighton uh flower shop and they
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deliver them that afternoon. That
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evening she rang me. It's just like
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that. What does the card say? Is it like
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a the same sort of text every time? No.
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Make it up on the day. I mean, yeah,
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it's hi. I'm I'm you know who I am and
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what what I'm looking for. Yeah. So,
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wow. It's a It's a great little hack.
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It's very very effective. Um, what's it
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been like for you becoming um becoming
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becoming famous at this age and stage of
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life? Like when were you like mid-50s,
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60 before, you know, you started having
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that thing where you're sitting in cafes
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and you can notice people looking at
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you? Yeah. Um, it's just very funny. I
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mean, is it enjoyable?
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Oh, well, I don't mind because um yeah,
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most people are are being nice. I mean,
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well, everyone basically is nice. I
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mean, you know, it's um not like they're
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coming up and say, you know, you played
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a [ __ ] game yesterday, you know, poor
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all blacks and get get abused like that,
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but everyone just comes up and often
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tell me fascinating stories about their
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lives, which is good. But yeah, it's
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very strange. I mean because I never
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wanted to be on television and um if it
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was a surprise that um even this show
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you know missing pieces when we started
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it I was just going to um produce it and
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then the very first story we started
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shooting I was on the phone trying to
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find this guy and and
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um we just couldn't get him to answer
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and I'm ringing and I got hold of his
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son and um and his son says well why do
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you want to know and I said well I can't
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tell you until to talk to your dad and
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it was sort of become a standoff and and
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I said to the camera quick just shoot
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this yeah we'll never know if we'll need
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it and um and then um the guy actually
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agreed in the end and I had to drive way
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up to Lake Cage and uh by the time I got
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there it was night and he was in a
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farmhouse and out out in the middle of
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nowhere and uh he was doing some uh
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drainage work or he was a digger
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operator. you know, he was um fixing a
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road up there. And I said to the
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cameraman, "Run in the paddic and just
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start filming." And I put a radio mic on
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and went inside and and they filmed
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that. And then when I went back to the
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office, I just said, "Yo, look, we've
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got sort of an answer and all this, but
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um they started looking at the footage
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and um Greg Heathcoat, who was uh Julie
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Christiey's sort of uh offsider or
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partner and um and partner in the
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program, not life. Um, looked at it and
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said, "This is amazing. You're on
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camera." That's what happened. And so
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all of a sudden, I was in front of a
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camera. Yeah. And now here you are in
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your early 70s and you're on the cover
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of Women's Weekly
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and it's it's a it's a um it's
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remarkable the twists and turns of life.
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Oh, staggering as I say. I mean, you
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know, I just and never imagined that
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anyone would you I could walk I couldn't
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walk down the street and be totally
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anonymous. But now all of a sudden, you
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know, lots of people sort of do
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recognize me. And um it's funny you know
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um my partner Clarinda was walking
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behind me in the supermarket and she
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says you wouldn't believe how many
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people say something after you walk by
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and start looking at you you know which
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is as I say it's nice because it means
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people are watching the program which is
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just fantastic. Oh they sure are like um
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you know re the genre reality TV or when
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I had Julie Christie on the D Julie
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Christie on the podcast I think she
00:11:41
called it unscripted drama. Unscripted
00:11:43
is that what it's called?
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whatever the whatever the the name is.
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But it's like it gets a very bad rap
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with shows like Married at First Sight,
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which is amazing by the way, but awful.
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Um, but then that that is the genre of
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your show, and it's just it's incredible
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TV. Yeah, it is. I mean, uh, you know,
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we're sort of a cross between I mean,
00:12:00
every story I do would would be, you
00:12:04
know, current affairs programs like I
00:12:06
used to run 60 Minutes many years ago.
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If someone had come up and and said,
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"I've got this story." One of the
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reporters, we would have grabbed it in
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in a heartbeat. So, it's sort of between
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reality and and current affairs. I mean,
00:12:19
because, you know, you you see the
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Herald if if the Herald get a story
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which they can solve about a family
00:12:26
finding each other. It's it's in there.
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It's it's a big story. So, you know,
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we're not far from journalism.
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Journalism still, which is what I like.
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Yeah. I um Yeah. Yeah, sort of
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unrelated, I recorded a podcast last
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week with um Dylan Boucher, one of New
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Zealand's greatest basketball players of
00:12:42
all time. Um just recently he's got the
00:12:44
job of president of the Breakers. Um and
00:12:46
I asked him when the last time he cried
00:12:47
was and yeah, he said it was watching
00:12:49
David Lumis investigates. He said most
00:12:51
week he he cries. Um yeah, you you're
00:12:54
making a lot of people cry. It's
00:12:56
amazing. I mean, you know, two of the
00:12:59
best compliments I've ever had come from
00:13:02
a couple of, you know, sort of my
00:13:03
heroes. Um I was in Parumu one day and
00:13:06
this walking along the street and this
00:13:08
car comes into a screeching hole out
00:13:10
jumps this guy and runs up to me. He
00:13:12
says David Lois, how are you? And it was
00:13:15
Christian Cullen.
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I was just blown away. I I'd be running
00:13:21
up to him and say, "Christen Cullen, how
00:13:23
are you?" But he came up and so that was
00:13:25
lovely. And then I was um doing a a race
00:13:27
on Waki um um from uh on Tangi Beach to
00:13:33
the warf and that and uh this walkers
00:13:36
start and runners start at the same time
00:13:38
and um old um Graeme Henry was standing
00:13:40
there and the only time I've ever spoken
00:13:43
to Graeme Henry was um when I was doing
00:13:46
some work for radio and uh I'd asked him
00:13:49
at a news press conference I says so
00:13:52
you're continuing with the rotation this
00:13:54
year and you just glared at me. He just
00:13:57
glared at me and he said, "What
00:14:00
rotation, but then he walked up to me
00:14:02
out there and he just shook my hand."
00:14:04
Said, "I just love your program." So,
00:14:06
it's so lovely when that happens. Yeah.
00:14:08
It's so gratifying, right? It's crazy.
00:14:11
Um, all right. Well, let's go let's go
00:14:13
all the way back um to paint a picture
00:14:15
of, you know, who David Lass is. So,
00:14:16
you're from a town called T uh Ty Ponamu
00:14:19
in the South Island. Where is that?
00:14:23
Ty Panamu. Yeah, it is the South Island.
00:14:26
Oh. Oh, okay. Oh, I'll be editing this
00:14:29
bit out. Okay. I thought it was a town
00:14:31
in the South Island. Um, whereabouts in
00:14:34
the South Island? Uh, well, I was born
00:14:36
in Blenhan, but um I didn't really live
00:14:39
a lot in South Island because we moved
00:14:41
to Fiji when I was very young, but went
00:14:44
back to um live out of um Deneden on the
00:14:47
Ty Plains when I was in my uh standard
00:14:51
two to standard six at school. Yeah. So
00:14:54
yeah, you what's your earliest memory?
00:14:57
My earliest memory um well it's up in
00:15:00
Fiji. Um and you know we used we had a
00:15:03
great life up there and I can just
00:15:04
remember swimming in the swimming pool
00:15:06
and and uh you know riding you know
00:15:10
tricycles around and that sort of thing.
00:15:12
Yeah. But uh I suppose that's it. But
00:15:15
yeah, nothing startling. Yeah. So your
00:15:17
dad was um an air traffic controller.
00:15:19
Yes. So when was this? Like in like in
00:15:21
the 1950s? Was it was it like sea planes
00:15:25
or in Fiji or or Yeah, just in in like
00:15:28
in in general? No, no. Um when I was
00:15:33
born um dad was up at um uh Woodburn uh
00:15:38
in Benham at the airport there.
00:15:41
um uh he had been he had got into air
00:15:45
traffic control through being in the air
00:15:46
force in the um Pacific during the war
00:15:50
and um and then it
00:15:52
um sorry where we were going we were
00:15:56
yeah um and so it was just the very
00:15:59
start of air traffic control and then he
00:16:01
got a job up in Fiji because all the um
00:16:04
the longhaul planes from the US would
00:16:06
would island hop that you know and um so
00:16:10
They're always landing in in Nandy at
00:16:13
the airport there and uh it was DC6s,
00:16:16
DC7s and things like that and um Globe
00:16:19
Masters and um and uh you know all all
00:16:22
the celebrities in the world came
00:16:23
through there at the time. Um you know
00:16:26
what's her name?
00:16:27
Um
00:16:30
h gosh got a brain fade.
00:16:38
Um, can't think of the name. Oh, are we
00:16:40
still talking? No, no, this in Nandy.
00:16:44
Um,
00:16:46
breakfast at Tiffany's. Who was that
00:16:47
actor? Oh, Audrey Hippen. Yeah, Audrey
00:16:49
Hippon came through there. Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:51
And I remember, you know, as um everyone
00:16:54
at the airport was in in a buzz because
00:16:56
she was going to get off the plane. So,
00:16:58
you know, the mums were all down there
00:17:00
looking. And um yeah, you had the Lord
00:17:03
bound Baton and things like that
00:17:05
wandering through. But yeah, it was a
00:17:06
fascinating time. And and and now look
00:17:09
at you. It's come the full circle now.
00:17:10
You're maybe New Zealand's most frequent
00:17:12
flyer.
00:17:14
There's so by the way, there's so many
00:17:15
questions on Instagram about your um
00:17:17
your Air New Zealand status and some
00:17:19
other um airport related questions.
00:17:22
We'll get to them later, but um yeah. So
00:17:24
um boarding school in Wellington in when
00:17:26
was this? The late late60s. Um from My
00:17:31
parents went back up to Fiji just when I
00:17:33
was turning 15. So I did the last three
00:17:36
years of schooling at um Wellington
00:17:38
College. Yeah. So yeah. How was that
00:17:41
experience? It was fantastic. Um abs
00:17:44
absolutely amazing. I love boarding
00:17:45
school and uh yeah, Wellington College
00:17:47
was a very uh liberal boarding school.
00:17:50
Um my parents had when I first left
00:17:54
decided that I should um we actually
00:17:57
private boarded when in the fifth form
00:17:59
and then in sixth form I went to
00:18:00
boarding school and but decided I should
00:18:03
go down to Christ Church where a lot of
00:18:04
mom's relatives were and sent me to St.
00:18:06
Beads and I just hated it and um but I'd
00:18:09
met all all these guys up in Fiji during
00:18:12
school holidays and that most of them
00:18:14
were going to Wellington College. So I
00:18:16
so I said to dad, "Can you get me out of
00:18:19
here?
00:18:20
And and is this sort of when um when the
00:18:23
love of writing or or journalism came
00:18:25
because you you
00:18:26
you and this is the cutest story by the
00:18:29
way. This is something that would just
00:18:30
never it would never never happen these
00:18:31
days. But you used to write ice hockey
00:18:34
reports and then just drop them on the
00:18:35
doorstep of the newspaper and they
00:18:37
publish them. Yes. Yes. Um it's the most
00:18:39
random bizarre story now. Like imagine a
00:18:42
handwritten note on the doorstep of the
00:18:44
Herald. It's crazy. No. Well, I I'd
00:18:47
started playing ice hockey
00:18:49
um in in the third form. Um that I lived
00:18:54
out in Miramar Way and there's an ice
00:18:57
skating rink out there in those days and
00:18:59
there'd been a bit of publicity about it
00:19:01
and my brother who was a um Peter who
00:19:03
was also a journalist and already a
00:19:06
journalist. He had written a story about
00:19:07
this rec recruitment campaign and he
00:19:10
said go down and see see what it's like.
00:19:12
So my brother and I and two or three
00:19:14
mates went down there and uh we were
00:19:17
told we can skate whenever we wanted to
00:19:20
and all that sort of thing. And uh so we
00:19:22
we started playing hockey and um and uh
00:19:26
Peter used to get someone to do reports
00:19:29
for the
00:19:30
um talk to him about it and send and for
00:19:33
the Dominion. And I thought well no
00:19:35
one's doing it for the Evening Post. So,
00:19:36
I just started writing them and I'd slip
00:19:40
them. It was a little um thing. But
00:19:43
sports in those days, a lot of people um
00:19:46
dropped off sports results through this
00:19:48
little uh cubby. Oh, like an after hours
00:19:50
letter box. Yeah. And I started doing it
00:19:52
and I never put my name on it or
00:19:54
anything like that, but um they they
00:19:58
just published them and and say I was at
00:20:01
school one day and I was that that year
00:20:03
I was still at St. Pat's College and um
00:20:06
and the recctor of here calls calls me
00:20:08
out and you know when you get called out
00:20:10
at assembly you think you're in trouble
00:20:14
and he handed me an envelope and it was
00:20:16
a check for I don't know about 12
00:20:18
shillings or something I mean was a
00:20:20
dollar 20 I don't know what it was but
00:20:23
it was it wasn't a big amount but in
00:20:25
those days it was it was good enough and
00:20:28
um and one hell of a pleasant shock. How
00:20:30
did how did they track you down? Um, I
00:20:33
think they must have asked it at someone
00:20:35
must have asked at the ice hockey thing
00:20:37
and who who's doing this and and the
00:20:39
guys there knew I was doing it. So, I
00:20:41
suspect that's how Harry how he found
00:20:43
out. But and I don't know why he sent it
00:20:45
to school because if he had worked out
00:20:47
who I was, he probably knew who my
00:20:49
brother was. But but they sent it to
00:20:51
school. And so did you do that because
00:20:54
you loved Yeah. Why didn't you put your
00:20:56
name on it?
00:20:58
And and were were they just trying to
00:21:00
get my head around it. Were they were
00:21:01
they were they structured sort of
00:21:02
stories or was it sort of Oh, they were
00:21:05
basically very simple. You know, Red
00:21:07
Hawks beat you know whatever the other
00:21:10
team was in those days at 53 you know uh
00:21:14
uh I was trying to think of the guys who
00:21:16
played with Wind Van Wind Vanir you know
00:21:19
stopped three made brilliant stops or
00:21:21
something like that. So it was just like
00:21:22
facts and information but but it was
00:21:24
yeah just a little story about five or
00:21:26
six parts probably. Yeah. But uh and is
00:21:29
that is that where is that was sort of
00:21:30
where the love of writing or journalism
00:21:32
came? Is that where you thought I could
00:21:33
make a career out of this?
00:21:35
Well later um I started doing more stuff
00:21:39
and then
00:21:40
um Peter said why don't you come start
00:21:43
doing some weekend work on the Dominion
00:21:45
and um uh Alex Vasy who was sports
00:21:49
editor of Dominion said yeah yeah we'll
00:21:51
give him a job and um so I started
00:21:53
writing the weekends for the um Dom the
00:21:57
Sunday Star Times as went out then and
00:22:00
um so I sort of stopped playing uh
00:22:04
Saturday sports and started um you know
00:22:06
covering sport and and it just grew from
00:22:09
there. It
00:22:10
was be it was never a conscious decision
00:22:13
to become a journalist at that stage but
00:22:15
as soon as I was doing it I just knew
00:22:18
that's what I was going to do. So what
00:22:20
else did you think you wanted to do? Oh
00:22:23
because I've been raised Catholic for a
00:22:25
while I always used to put down priest
00:22:26
you know because when they asked you
00:22:27
what do you want to be and forest
00:22:30
ranger. Forest ranger. Well, well, cuz I
00:22:34
love being in the outdoors, but but uh
00:22:36
yeah, you just had no idea when you're
00:22:38
14 or 15, but from about 15 onwards, I
00:22:42
always knew it was going to be
00:22:43
journalism. Yeah. Yeah, that seems like
00:22:46
a very um I don't know, even like
00:22:49
flamboyant occupation at that point.
00:22:52
Yeah, it was a long time ago. Oh, well,
00:22:54
journalism was um you know, print
00:22:56
journalism was was absolute king then,
00:22:58
you know. Um radio wasn't didn't exist.
00:23:01
television really didn't exist. It was
00:23:03
it had started but you know you you
00:23:06
didn't see it as um really serious
00:23:08
journalism. It was um black and white
00:23:11
and slow and always a day behind. Um so
00:23:14
it was a a great place to get into and
00:23:17
it's just it's the most amazing job.
00:23:20
It's the you know grandstand on the
00:23:22
world you know you sit there and you're
00:23:24
right in the front row. So yeah it's
00:23:27
crazy. Yeah. Just the the like the
00:23:29
change you've seen in the media
00:23:30
landscape e over your decades. Yeah.
00:23:33
It's nuts. Like a lot of the a lot of
00:23:35
the um the papers you work for, they're
00:23:36
not they don't even exist anymore. No.
00:23:39
Um I was trying to think if it's one
00:23:40
that that I've worked for that still
00:23:41
exists. Um Dominion kind of does. Well,
00:23:44
no. Now they gone and changed it to the
00:23:46
post only.
00:23:49
And Oakland Star, that's no longer
00:23:50
there. The Wongoi Chronicle. Is that
00:23:52
still a The cron's still going. Is it?
00:23:54
Is it? Yeah. How long were you in Wongoi
00:23:56
for? Oh, only only about a year. I when
00:23:59
I finished um I went went to Vastie
00:24:02
because I couldn't left school and I was
00:24:04
going to be a journalist, but I just
00:24:05
wanted to enjoy life for a little while.
00:24:08
I went up and um started playing rugby
00:24:10
again and um still played ice hockey up
00:24:13
here and um just had a great, you know,
00:24:16
couple of years at Vasti and um then I
00:24:18
thought I better get a job. So uh I went
00:24:20
and did the journalism course at AUT AIT
00:24:24
or ATI ATI as it was back then and um
00:24:28
that was 6 months and at the end um the
00:24:30
Herald offered me a job, the Star
00:24:32
offered me a job but the Wonganui
00:24:35
Chronicle was always also looking for
00:24:36
someone and I thought no I'm going to go
00:24:38
there
00:24:40
because there I'd be someone because
00:24:42
there's only three or four journalists
00:24:44
whereas in the Herald and Star you you'd
00:24:47
probably be writing up the shipping
00:24:48
notes and uh taking the weather on uh
00:24:50
Queen Street. So So uh I went there and
00:24:54
then um I was there for about a year and
00:24:58
uh then chap called Arman Lindenberg who
00:25:01
I'd worked with on the Dominion was up
00:25:03
covering the um athletics meeting where
00:25:07
I think John Walker was running. But
00:25:10
anyway, it was one of those classic mile
00:25:12
events at Cook's Garden and um he saw me
00:25:16
there and he said, "Lus, what are you
00:25:17
doing here?" And I said, 'I'm working on
00:25:19
the Chronicle. He said, 'N no, you're
00:25:20
not. You're coming to the Dominion. So
00:25:23
about 3 weeks later, I was back on the
00:25:26
Dominion there. And it just world just
00:25:29
kept going on. Yeah. What did life look
00:25:32
like for a journalist back then? Well,
00:25:34
you weren't
00:25:36
um you weren't getting wealthy. That was
00:25:38
for sure. Um but it was just an exciting
00:25:41
job. I mean, you know, where else do you
00:25:43
go? And every day is just something
00:25:46
different. And, you know, you can be
00:25:48
jumping on a on a plane and flying to
00:25:50
the west coast to, you know, a little
00:25:53
one seater, you know, one one engine
00:25:55
plane down the coast when a boat's
00:25:58
upturned and there's people stuck
00:25:59
inside. You can be flying up to a train
00:26:02
crash at Wuru, you know, and, you know,
00:26:06
fires out at murder scenes, you know,
00:26:08
interviewing famous people. I mean, how
00:26:11
good for, you know, person in their
00:26:13
early 20s. Yeah. And you covered some
00:26:15
big stories in your time, e like um the
00:26:18
Arabus disaster. Well, Arabus was really
00:26:21
funny because um it was just a really
00:26:22
quiet night at work and
00:26:25
um there had been a um little fire on
00:26:28
Brooklyn Hill and I'd just got in a car
00:26:30
and driven up there to see what it was
00:26:31
like. And then I heard that
00:26:33
um the
00:26:35
um Air New Zealand flight was overdue.
00:26:38
So I shot back to work and we started
00:26:40
working and I had a a mate John Barnhill
00:26:42
who um was very good at police radio. So
00:26:46
I rang him up and I said, you know, can
00:26:48
you get Mcmebermeto radio? And he
00:26:51
fiddled round, fiddle around and and he
00:26:52
got it. And so back at the office I had
00:26:56
the um McMmetoro radio on. I had John
00:26:59
had his phone next to the radio and I
00:27:02
had the phone next to me and we were
00:27:05
just sitting there listening and
00:27:06
listening and they were searching. And
00:27:07
then um it must have been just after
00:27:10
midnight they said you know we've
00:27:11
located wreckage on the back side of
00:27:13
Arabus there there appears to be no
00:27:16
survivors and that just came across and
00:27:19
it was an amazing night because the
00:27:21
Dominion was going cold press that night
00:27:23
so that they put an early deadline on
00:27:26
and um I got this big break which we
00:27:29
knew it had crashed where it crashed and
00:27:32
that there appeared to be no survivors
00:27:34
and I had you know a recording of
00:27:37
And the presses were running and you
00:27:39
know you know you love that idea of
00:27:42
running down stop the presses literally.
00:27:45
Well I did run down and yell out stop
00:27:47
the presses. Not didn't yell that out
00:27:49
but and um the editor of the day he said
00:27:52
no we can't we can't we're doing you
00:27:53
know it's we're stuck. And the um uh
00:27:59
printer the main printer there at the
00:28:01
time a guy called Russell Gray just I
00:28:04
had the script. Yeah, the um story there
00:28:07
and he came out and I gave it to him and
00:28:10
he just disappeared. They did a new
00:28:13
plate, stopped the press and shoved it
00:28:15
on and all of a sudden we have that
00:28:17
story. I mean, no one else in New
00:28:19
Zealand broke that for probably 2 or 3
00:28:21
hours, which was 2 2:33 in the morning
00:28:23
or something. But the all all the other
00:28:26
papers um could stop their presses and
00:28:28
do it. But it was just Dominion was on
00:28:31
that um changeover between um you know
00:28:35
hot type and cold cold. So it was an
00:28:38
amazing night. And um Mr. Asia maybe um
00:28:42
New Zealand's most infamous um drug
00:28:44
trafficker. Did you did you know Terry
00:28:46
Clark? No.
00:28:49
Um you just involved in the story
00:28:51
somehow? I was I was in Wellington. I
00:28:53
was doing a lot of police work in
00:28:54
Wellington and I um when it started
00:28:57
breaking the star broke it up in
00:28:59
Oakuckland and um but the Dominion sent
00:29:03
me over to Sydney to sort of start
00:29:05
investigating and you know try and find
00:29:07
out what was going on because the scene
00:29:09
had been largely there and so I sort of
00:29:12
did a lot of work on it but I couldn't
00:29:15
say at that stage but I did broke
00:29:17
anything major. I mean I had new
00:29:20
information in different parts but yeah
00:29:22
but you know my lucky break on that one
00:29:25
came when I was asked to do the um uh
00:29:28
documentary on it. Yeah. So yeah even
00:29:31
that's crazy the thought of like a
00:29:33
journalist being sent over to Australia
00:29:34
to like look at look into it like now
00:29:36
it's just sort of press releases from
00:29:38
the police really that you're rewriting
00:29:39
isn't it? Oh yeah. And and that that was
00:29:41
incredible because um that was what was
00:29:44
that early 80s or something like that. I
00:29:47
went to King's Cross and and you know
00:29:49
just doing a bit of color stuff there.
00:29:51
You walk into King's Cross and you went
00:29:53
into the um public toilets around around
00:29:55
there and there were um you know
00:29:58
syringes lying in in the in the in the
00:30:01
urinal really and and you know it was
00:30:03
really seedy and um and uh make sure I
00:30:07
get the right name. um a New Zealand
00:30:10
band name Dragon I think. Yeah, they
00:30:13
they were said to be involved, you know,
00:30:17
and uh you know, you were I was trying
00:30:19
to track down people who knew what they
00:30:21
had been involved with and that and and
00:30:23
just trying to track down people and
00:30:24
talk to police over there and and I was
00:30:27
working a bit with the um police
00:30:30
reporters on the Daily Telegraph in
00:30:32
Sydney. So, it was yeah, just quite an
00:30:35
interesting time. Yeah. air travel was
00:30:37
like um it was very expensive then you
00:30:39
know um I remember like mom and dad
00:30:41
going to Sydney in I think 1980 or
00:30:43
whatever when I was like seven years old
00:30:44
and it was an occasion you'd get dressed
00:30:46
up and you'd have the flight over so for
00:30:48
a print organization to like send a
00:30:50
journalist over that's a it's a big deal
00:30:52
yeah oh well it was the 80s it wasn't
00:30:55
that
00:30:57
bad early 80s before things got real
00:30:59
good was it and it was in the 80s that
00:31:02
you made the transition over to TV late
00:31:05
80s So I I moved up to Oakland and um
00:31:09
work on the staff for a while and then I
00:31:12
got offered a job on the um Oakland Sun
00:31:15
when that started. And so um and that
00:31:18
was great because they first thing they
00:31:19
did is they sent me to um to Paneang and
00:31:23
Malaysia to go and cover the Cohen
00:31:25
trial, Aaron and uh Lorraine Cohen. And
00:31:29
so I started work on this paper and I
00:31:32
was dispatched to um Paneang and I spent
00:31:35
a month up there and then before and I
00:31:38
never I hadn't seen the paper I was
00:31:40
working for until I got back to New
00:31:42
Zealand and but you know I was writing
00:31:44
all these stories from up there and that
00:31:46
was incredible. You covering a trial
00:31:48
where someone was up to be um you know
00:31:52
they could have been hung. Yeah. And you
00:31:55
know these um Aaron Lorraine each day
00:31:58
they were marched into court and you
00:32:00
know we as journalists we were always
00:32:03
there trying to talk to them as they
00:32:04
came in and in court they were just
00:32:06
sitting in front of us and we you know
00:32:08
we'd chat away and bit and um Lorraine's
00:32:11
ex-husband Danny was up there and you
00:32:13
know he was always
00:32:14
um Aaron's father and and was giving um
00:32:18
you know helping them bringing in food
00:32:20
and things like that and but you know
00:32:23
for those to I mean what what a
00:32:25
experience I mean or a terrifying event
00:32:28
you know sitting there having their life
00:32:31
decided by by a court.
00:32:35
Yeah. Yeah. I think Lorraine's passed.
00:32:36
Is Aaron still alive? [ __ ] Had to be a
00:32:38
great podcast guest, wouldn't he? Yeah.
00:32:40
I think I think so. Sorry. I don't
00:32:43
That's right. He He ended up not getting
00:32:44
the death penalty, but getting um six
00:32:46
lashes with that. Um he was going to get
00:32:48
rotan. Yes. Right. Right. Which which
00:32:50
like breaks the skin of the the
00:32:51
buttocks. It sounds most unpleasant.
00:32:53
Yeah, it's like the old cane at school,
00:32:55
but but really brutal. Did you Did you
00:32:58
get the cane at school? Well, as I say,
00:33:01
when you get called at St. Pats, you get
00:33:03
called to direct go and see director
00:33:06
after assembly.
00:33:08
Yeah, I went to Palmer North Boys High
00:33:10
and um I think it was um abolished like
00:33:12
midway through my my term there. Um so,
00:33:15
in the first couple of years, parents
00:33:17
had to sign a consent form for their
00:33:18
kids to be to be caned and um I was
00:33:21
like, "Oh, sweet. Mom and dad won't sign
00:33:22
this." um because it was sort of 50/50,
00:33:24
but sure enough they did. It's brutal.
00:33:26
Brutal. And the um yeah, Mr. Brookie,
00:33:28
who was the the housemaster, like I
00:33:30
think he got great pleasure every Monday
00:33:31
morning at assembly from reading out a
00:33:33
list of names and then get to line up in
00:33:35
the library for you and get whacked.
00:33:37
It's bizarre. Ah, those priests were a
00:33:40
bit sadistic, I think. Yeah. So, um Yes.
00:33:44
So, so you you um moved from print to TV
00:33:47
and um yeah, you you were working on the
00:33:50
home show, the iconic home show when
00:33:51
that first launched on TV. Yeah, I went
00:33:54
um as I say, the Oakland Sun, I went to
00:33:57
the Oakland Sun and that folded and then
00:33:59
I was sort of unemployed and um an old
00:34:02
old mate of well a friend of a mate of
00:34:04
mine who I'd become friends with, Paul
00:34:07
Cutler, he um he said, "Oh, we'll give
00:34:09
you a job." And so I went and worked in
00:34:11
TV. I had no idea what I was doing. And
00:34:14
um but yeah, they wanted someone who
00:34:17
could find stories, develop stories. And
00:34:19
um and then they were doing an
00:34:22
experiment with Paul Holmes. Um and we
00:34:25
did a program called Midweek with
00:34:27
Holmes. Um and it was about six of us on
00:34:32
it. Bill Rolston was one of them. And um
00:34:34
it was an experiment to see whether
00:34:36
Holmes would work on television. And so
00:34:39
we did that. And then um we launched
00:34:41
Homes and uh we launched it with a bit
00:34:44
of a bang.
00:34:46
Yeah. Episode one uh one of those iconic
00:34:49
uh New Zealand TV moments. Um and it was
00:34:52
pre-recorded, right? The interview with
00:34:53
Dennis Connor from um the US America's
00:34:55
Was it pre-recorded or live?
00:34:58
Do you remember? I honestly can't
00:35:00
remember. Yeah, I was there, but I can't
00:35:02
remember. But it's um it's a it's a walk
00:35:04
it's a walk out. So, Holmes asked some
00:35:06
confronting questions and Dennis
00:35:08
Connor's um he wanted him to apologize
00:35:10
for for calling um the New Zealand
00:35:14
designer a loser, you know.
00:35:17
That's right. So, like get off the
00:35:19
stage. Losers aren't allowed on the
00:35:20
stage. So, what So, what what are your
00:35:23
Yeah. What are your recollections of
00:35:24
that time of that time? Well, well,
00:35:27
Homes, you know, was just a fantastic
00:35:29
program to work on. I mean um when we
00:35:32
launched it, it was a sort of total new
00:35:35
sort of current affairs style. I mean
00:35:38
the first episode we had a um interview
00:35:40
with a guy um who
00:35:45
um was suspected of murdering Kursa
00:35:48
Jensen and you know I'd got that
00:35:50
interview and that was you know
00:35:53
sensational enough. And then then we did
00:35:55
a story on um uh a woman in Napia who
00:35:59
had 39 cats and her neighbors were
00:36:02
getting upset. So doing a story that and
00:36:04
then we had of course Dennis Connor to
00:36:06
top it all off and and when it all
00:36:08
happened I mean it was just fantastic.
00:36:11
But um the next day there was sort of a
00:36:15
big split in the newsroom. There was
00:36:17
those who all thought that you know it
00:36:19
was an outrageous show and it was awful
00:36:21
and you know how dear all this happened
00:36:23
and this tabloid television and then the
00:36:27
homes crew were we were sitting in
00:36:30
another area whole thing
00:36:32
with are we going to survive is this
00:36:35
going to be good and of course yeah
00:36:37
there was a lot of controvers
00:36:39
controversy over it but you know it just
00:36:41
boomed and then we just kept doing
00:36:44
things and you know Paul was an amazing
00:36:46
chap to work with him? Did you work with
00:36:48
him? No, I I met him a few times. Had
00:36:51
some drinks with him at Radio Awards and
00:36:53
stuff. I was a huge huge fan. Massive
00:36:55
massive fan of um Yeah. Sir Paul Holmes.
00:36:57
But um yeah, I love hearing stories
00:36:59
about him. Did he ever blow a stack at
00:37:01
you? He must have told you off once or
00:37:02
twice. Oh, not really. But uh but we
00:37:06
created this Uncle Arthur thing and I
00:37:08
got the job of taking him out. We we
00:37:11
wanted to get him out in the field and
00:37:13
uh the our name in the office for him
00:37:16
was sort of Uncle Arthur. And so he was
00:37:18
always this goofy guy who goes out and
00:37:20
the first thing we got him to do was um
00:37:22
Kelly Evan, the uh very good tennis
00:37:25
player was in town. And um so we
00:37:27
arranged for him to do an interview of
00:37:29
Kelly, but we decided that we'd get Paul
00:37:32
dressed up in uh white tennis gear and
00:37:35
baggy pants and all that and stand on
00:37:37
the court and try and hit a hit a serve
00:37:39
when Kelly put it down. And poor old
00:37:41
Holmes, he's you flopping all over the
00:37:43
place. But it was just, you know, that
00:37:45
was the creation of that Uncle Arthur
00:37:47
sort of idea of him, which he did for
00:37:49
years and years afterwards. And yeah, it
00:37:52
was just a really vibrant time. I mean,
00:37:54
we did a everyone on the program just
00:37:57
did amazing stories. Yeah. We we sort of
00:38:00
um there hadn't been anything like it in
00:38:03
New Zealand television and uh yeah, it
00:38:06
probably hasn't been anything like it
00:38:08
since either. Yeah. Because during that
00:38:10
time he he became like proper famous
00:38:12
like probably the most famous man in New
00:38:14
Zealand I guess like he was um yeah the
00:38:16
the ratings were increasing on ZB and he
00:38:19
was doing this evening show. Um, yeah,
00:38:22
there were pap when his marriage broke
00:38:23
up, there's paparazzi outside his house.
00:38:25
It was like a he Yeah. One of the most
00:38:27
recognizable men in New Zealand and
00:38:28
probably highest paid as well. Did he
00:38:30
Did he change over that time or No, he
00:38:33
he was incredible. I mean, you know, I'd
00:38:35
go out with him quite a lot on, you
00:38:37
know, doing shoots with him when he was
00:38:39
talking to people and things like that.
00:38:41
And he was just um an incredibly
00:38:45
um able to relate to just about anyone,
00:38:48
you know, and you know, gang guys would
00:38:50
come up to him and talk to him and he'd
00:38:52
just chat away. He was, you know, the
00:38:54
common touch they call him, I think.
00:38:56
Yeah. He he was, you know, really good
00:38:58
at that. Yeah. And um but you know, he
00:39:02
he was really stretching himself. He was
00:39:04
doing the morning show, as you say. He'd
00:39:06
come into work. We'd do a a morning
00:39:07
meeting with him. go go go home and have
00:39:09
his sleep for a couple of hours. Come
00:39:11
back and prep for the evening show and
00:39:14
then you know he's up again at that
00:39:17
finished at um what 7:30 or whatever it
00:39:19
was and then a slight debrief and find
00:39:22
out what was going on. Then he'd go home
00:39:24
and up at 3:00 in the morning to do his
00:39:27
morning show. I mean he was uh yeah
00:39:29
pushing it.
00:39:31
Yeah. I I had Sir John Key on the
00:39:33
podcast and he told a story about homes.
00:39:35
He said he was at a restaurant in Panell
00:39:36
like one Friday or Saturday night with
00:39:38
Brona and Holmes was there with a group
00:39:41
of friends and they called him over for
00:39:42
a drink. So he had a drink with him then
00:39:43
he was like no I've got to Holmes was
00:39:45
ordering another bottle and John was
00:39:46
like I got to go cuz we're we're
00:39:48
interviewing tomorrow on Q&A or whatever
00:39:50
it was. So he went home for sleep and
00:39:52
then um Holmes ordered another bottle
00:39:54
and then the next morning he said home
00:39:56
seemed a little bit dusty but then as
00:39:57
soon as the cameras were on just sharp
00:39:59
as attack. Yeah. No, that was him. He
00:40:01
was he had an incredible stamina for a
00:40:04
for for a chap who really didn't have
00:40:06
stamina. Yeah. Amazing. You were um you
00:40:09
were involved in um the helicopter
00:40:12
crash. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So this was 1989
00:40:16
89. Yeah. Middle of June or end of June
00:40:19
actually. Yeah. Do um do you want to
00:40:22
talk are you okay to talk about it?
00:40:24
Yeah. There's no So yes. So what
00:40:26
happened? You you It was you Paul
00:40:28
Holmes.
00:40:30
Well, there was a chapam Rana White who
00:40:33
uh was a police commander. Well, yeah,
00:40:36
an inspector in Wellington who was an
00:40:37
old mate of mine and he'd just been
00:40:40
promoted to become the first Mai
00:40:43
district commander for the East Coast
00:40:45
and they were going to have a formal
00:40:48
welcome for him at um the Tiki Tiki
00:40:51
Marai up right up the top there. And so
00:40:54
I got hold of Rana and said, you know,
00:40:56
would you do it? and and you know can we
00:40:58
come and do a big program on of homes
00:41:01
and he said yeah and Holmes was really
00:41:03
keen because he was uh very sympathetic
00:41:06
to all things Mali and that so um we
00:41:10
flew down there it was a a Saturday and
00:41:13
uh the welcome was on in the afternoon
00:41:16
but it was um torrential rain and so
00:41:20
we'd flown to Gisbon in a um charter six
00:41:25
six or eight seater plane And then we'd
00:41:27
got a helicopter up to um uh Ticky Ticky
00:41:31
and because it was torrential rain,
00:41:33
everything ran late and um and then we
00:41:37
had a sort of deadline because Paul had
00:41:39
a speech he had to do in Oakuckland that
00:41:41
night and um and we had to leave I can't
00:41:45
remember at 4 4:00 or 4:30 but um the
00:41:49
thing was late so it was getting close
00:41:51
to 5 or whatever it was at the time and
00:41:54
we all jumped in the chopper And um
00:41:56
because we're all soaking wet, it sort
00:41:59
of steamed up a bit and and we took off
00:42:01
and um and then um our sound man, we'd
00:42:05
been out up in the air for about 5
00:42:07
minutes and remembered he had left all
00:42:09
his radio mics on different people in in
00:42:11
the Marai. So we flew back and landed
00:42:14
there. Took off again. By this stage
00:42:16
we're we're getting quite late and dusk
00:42:18
is coming in and uh we flew down the
00:42:21
coast and still raining and the chopper
00:42:24
was fogging up a bit. we sort of keeping
00:42:26
the windows clear and um then we flew we
00:42:30
were flying quite low so because the
00:42:32
pilot I think was following the coast um
00:42:34
I'm not sure how high but I didn't think
00:42:37
it was a few hundred feet up and uh we
00:42:40
threw flew around a headland and he just
00:42:42
flew into a squall and um totally lost
00:42:46
visibility I suspect that's what we've
00:42:49
told and um and you know you hear that
00:42:52
um noise in a chopper when it's um
00:42:54
blades are slowing up or something. Is
00:42:57
that D, you know, and just that and then
00:42:59
the next minute we're upside down in the
00:43:02
water and uh it was uh you know what the
00:43:07
hell's happening here? So
00:43:10
yeah. Is that terrifying at the time or
00:43:12
is it does it happen so quick you just
00:43:13
sort of bewildered? I had absolutely no
00:43:16
idea. It was flying thud thud thud and
00:43:19
then you're upside down water. I
00:43:23
cannot actually remember the crash and
00:43:26
it was just all so fast and I
00:43:30
um I think the chopper pilot had when he
00:43:34
had lost vision had had sort of pulled
00:43:36
back speed altogether. So I think we we
00:43:38
didn't fly into the water. We we sort of
00:43:41
just rolled into the water and um yeah
00:43:44
we're upside down but it was almost dark
00:43:47
then. I mean the the houses as we'd been
00:43:50
coming along the coast the lights were
00:43:52
really you
00:43:54
know showing so you know it was quite
00:43:57
dark and then when we're upside down it
00:43:59
was very dark and um then we all got out
00:44:02
and um uh well all of us but the
00:44:06
cameraman got out and
00:44:08
um and we got out and we're looking
00:44:11
around where's where is Joe and um uh
00:44:15
then we realized he wasn't there. So, I
00:44:17
dived in and uh looked for him under in
00:44:20
the upside down chopper and I grabbed
00:44:23
him and I fel felt his leg and and um
00:44:26
that must have um shocked him into
00:44:28
action because he jumped out and who was
00:44:30
holding me down or something like that
00:44:31
when he got up and um and then we sort
00:44:36
of uh just gathered on in the water and
00:44:38
uh the pilot um had got the emergency
00:44:42
locator beacon out, but that was like a
00:44:44
brick, a genuine like a brick. and and
00:44:47
um we were sort of holding well I was
00:44:49
holding at that stage and we were
00:44:51
talking about and I said what's the use
00:44:53
of this you know we're it's by this
00:44:55
stage about 6:30 or something in um off
00:44:58
the east coast of uh New Zealand what
00:45:00
plane's ever going to fly across here
00:45:02
who's even going to know for a long
00:45:04
while that we're missing and
00:45:06
um uh so we decided to throw that away
00:45:11
because nobody's going to see it or get
00:45:15
get the signal And uh we tried to swim
00:45:17
ashore and um and uh on the way in we
00:45:21
lost Joe and um which was terrible. Um
00:45:25
it was quite squaly and you know we got
00:45:29
him quite a long way in and then um
00:45:32
another big squall came through and cuz
00:45:33
he couldn't swim. He he just panicked a
00:45:36
bit which of course you would if you're
00:45:38
lying there if water's you know going
00:45:42
into your mouth and that and um and uh
00:45:46
we lost him there. Yeah. How far from
00:45:48
shore were you? How far did you have to
00:45:50
swim to get in? Well, I
00:45:53
estimate we went when we went back the
00:45:57
next day to um you know sort
00:46:01
of bit of research and and not not for
00:46:04
research but just to get some give the
00:46:07
searches a bit of an idea what what had
00:46:09
happened. Um I thought it was probably
00:46:11
about 700 800 meters out. Um but I don't
00:46:15
know for sure. I mean but yeah, there's
00:46:17
no way of knowing. It took us
00:46:19
uh probably 45 50 minutes to get ashore,
00:46:23
but I mean um most of
00:46:27
us were in quite heavy and big coats and
00:46:31
that I I stripped down to my shirt and
00:46:33
and with took my pants off and shoes off
00:46:35
and that um Holmes took his jacket, big
00:46:39
coat off, but he for some unknown reason
00:46:41
he kept his shoes on and um maybe they
00:46:44
were
00:46:44
expensive. And anyway, um when we got
00:46:48
ashore, it was um you know, it was
00:46:51
freezing of course because it was middle
00:46:53
of winter and um the water wasn't that
00:46:55
warm either. But um and then we didn't
00:46:59
know where we were cuz when we got
00:47:00
ashore there was no lights anywhere.
00:47:02
We're just up against a cliff. And uh so
00:47:06
we sort of I climbed up a bank and I
00:47:09
could feel um there was a flat area and
00:47:12
I could feel it was a path or a track
00:47:15
and we got so we all got up there and we
00:47:17
said which way to go and uh the decision
00:47:19
was to go left
00:47:21
because people had seen lights on the
00:47:24
left just around when we're out swimming
00:47:27
in there'd been lights on the left. So
00:47:29
we went that way and got to a farmhouse
00:47:31
and uh all of a sudden raised the alert
00:47:33
that we'd crashed.
00:47:36
Yeah, that must have been bizarre for
00:47:37
the people in the farmhouse. Paul
00:47:39
Holmes, one of the, you know, most
00:47:40
recognizable New Zealanders on, you
00:47:42
know, the the doorstep in this
00:47:44
disheveled sort of state. Well, yeah, we
00:47:47
knocked on the door. I'm standing there
00:47:48
in my undies
00:47:50
basically
00:47:52
homes the
00:47:54
um chopper poll and I had sort of
00:47:57
carried had homes between us cuz he was
00:47:59
quite hypothermic really at that stage
00:48:01
and yeah banged on the door and this old
00:48:04
couple came to the door and we said oh
00:48:06
we're in a helicopter that's crashed and
00:48:08
well they didn't know of course but you
00:48:11
know we thought people would know by
00:48:13
then but um yeah so that's how we
00:48:15
alerted people. Yeah. Oh, and you to um
00:48:19
strip homes off and get them in a bath.
00:48:22
Yes. Well, yes, I can say I've
00:48:25
taken strip four homes. Yes. And one of
00:48:28
one of many of the stories out of
00:48:30
belief. Um yeah, that's a that's a
00:48:33
really traumatic thing to go through.
00:48:35
Yeah. How how do you process that? Like
00:48:37
there's this is so this is 30 35 years
00:48:40
ago. So there's a lot more awareness now
00:48:41
about PTSD and mental health and
00:48:45
triggering situations. But you did you
00:48:47
have any counseling or therapy or
00:48:48
anything after that or Yes. Um TVNZ sort
00:48:51
of insisted but I went and saw a um
00:48:54
someone I can't remember what what um
00:48:57
title they had and it was good because
00:48:59
it was just a chance to to talk because
00:49:02
um again it was that uh newsroom feeling
00:49:05
when you know afterwards it's
00:49:09
um why why did we do that? Why why did
00:49:12
we get ourselves into that situation?
00:49:15
And you know and TVNZ changed its
00:49:18
protocols quite a bit after that. You
00:49:20
know that um everyone had to go do
00:49:23
underwater evacuation training that the
00:49:27
helicopter going way back. The
00:49:29
helicopter had no um life jackets in it.
00:49:32
So that's when we got out. There was
00:49:33
nothing nothing that could float. And uh
00:49:36
that's why we had to swim. If there'd
00:49:37
been life jackets, Joe would be alive
00:49:40
today, of course. Um and uh why did we
00:49:43
fly in that weather? You know, who had
00:49:46
made those decisions? And um you know,
00:49:49
so it was and so it was quite
00:49:50
intimidating back in the office because
00:49:52
uh you know, people had lost a a very
00:49:56
dear friend and colleague and Joe and
00:50:00
they're wanting answers and you know who
00:50:02
who made the calls, you know, and and
00:50:06
when you think about it, nobody made the
00:50:08
calls. It was just we were going there,
00:50:10
we're going to film that, and then we
00:50:11
jump in the chopper and fly back. There
00:50:14
was no thought that anything like that
00:50:15
would happen. No. Yeah. Did Did
00:50:18
something like surviving something like
00:50:19
that change you as a person?
00:50:23
Um, yeah. Made me I slightly rash
00:50:28
decision. A few months later, I I got
00:50:30
married slightly on a
00:50:33
whim. Um, well, just was it one of those
00:50:35
moments where it's like life's too
00:50:37
short. I got a Well, it was because I'
00:50:39
I'd was single and I sort of doing just
00:50:44
going out with different women for a
00:50:46
while and um and then um I met a lady
00:50:49
who I really enjoyed her company and um
00:50:52
and we just decided within 3 months of
00:50:55
that crash and it was sort of a
00:50:58
somewhere in there I'd probably thought
00:51:00
you know I've got to sort my life out
00:51:02
because you know I've been given this ch
00:51:05
second chance but um you know, the
00:51:08
marriage didn't didn't last, but but I
00:51:11
got a wonderful daughter, so you know,
00:51:14
um but yeah, you make that decision and
00:51:17
but yes, you're always very grateful
00:51:20
that you're you're still alive because
00:51:21
you when you hear about other helicopter
00:51:24
crashes and things like that and you
00:51:25
just think, why why did I survive and
00:51:28
you know, why did we survive that one?
00:51:30
Yeah.
00:51:33
Yeah. Very lucky. So, so the mar How
00:51:36
long did the marriage last? Oh, for
00:51:40
um 10 years or so. Yeah. Well, that's a
00:51:43
success. Is that a success?
00:51:45
I having having been through a failed
00:51:48
marriage myself, it's it's quite funny
00:51:49
actually. You stand in front of all your
00:51:50
family and friends and you say you're
00:51:51
going to be together till you die. So,
00:51:53
anything short of that does kind of feel
00:51:54
like a fail in a way. But 10 years is I
00:51:58
mean it's it's an honest attempt. Yeah.
00:52:00
I mean Yeah, I suppose so. But uh uh you
00:52:04
know if it lasted 10 years, you know,
00:52:07
after little bit before that that it
00:52:10
wasn't wasn't going well. So So yes, you
00:52:12
got two adult kids now. Yes. One from
00:52:15
that relationship, one from another
00:52:17
relationship. Yes. Is that the only time
00:52:18
you've been married? Just the ones.
00:52:24
Well, going going way way back at
00:52:29
university uh again um I was going out
00:52:32
with a lady there and um I was leaving
00:52:35
town to go to the Wonganui Chronicle and
00:52:38
back in those days early 70s I mean been
00:52:41
to lots of weddings by that stage of
00:52:43
colleagues uh not colleagues but you
00:52:45
know other people and I was moving down
00:52:49
there and and we decided that she would
00:52:53
come down there too. And and with that
00:52:55
decision, we decided to get married. And
00:52:57
um and that marriage went for six years.
00:53:00
But then I joined the um was right into
00:53:03
newspapers and I when I went to the
00:53:05
Dominion, I was working nights all the
00:53:07
time and um and she was an accountant
00:53:11
and um our lives just drifted drifted
00:53:15
apart and we didn't have children and uh
00:53:19
Yeah. And yeah, again um you know a very
00:53:22
very nice person but um you know it we
00:53:24
just drifted and that's what happened.
00:53:27
You still in touch or no?
00:53:29
No. Um when I left Wellington I caught
00:53:32
up with her and um and I haven't really
00:53:35
caught up with her since but if you're
00:53:37
keen to I know a show that can help.
00:53:42
Um and yeah so you've got a partner now
00:53:43
Clarinda. Um, I've read about I know
00:53:46
about this cuz I've read about it in a
00:53:48
couple of um Women's Day stories.
00:53:49
Women's Weekly. Women's Weekly. Sorry.
00:53:51
Thank you. They'll smack me on the hand
00:53:53
if you Yeah. It's crazy. The twists and
00:53:57
turns of life like so in the in the '
00:53:59
90s when you're with Holmes like he was
00:54:01
he was, you know, women's magazine fod
00:54:03
and I suppose you could have never have
00:54:05
seen this for yourself and here you are
00:54:06
at this stage of life and this is you. I
00:54:09
know. And it's it's funny publicity
00:54:12
because um you know I have this sort of
00:54:15
thing. I ask people to be on television.
00:54:17
I ask them to do this you know and I
00:54:19
want to talk about their lives and and
00:54:22
so when people ask me will I do it I
00:54:27
feel I can't turn around and say no it's
00:54:28
none of your business you know um I put
00:54:31
myself out there. So you you feel you
00:54:33
have a an obligation to you know respect
00:54:37
that other people want to know a little
00:54:39
bit about you too. Yeah. Although this
00:54:42
this this podcast by the way this it's
00:54:44
not a a stitch up or anything. So if
00:54:46
there's anything I ask and you want to
00:54:48
say none of your business, you just say
00:54:49
none of your business. Oh, can we go
00:54:51
back?
00:54:54
We can edit anything out. So, so funny.
00:54:56
There's nothing I edited out apart from
00:54:58
a couple of dumb things I've said, but
00:54:59
you've you've been um the perfect guest.
00:55:01
We've been going for almost an hour and
00:55:03
we haven't even started talking about
00:55:04
missing pieces yet. Oh my goodness. Are
00:55:06
you on a are you on a time frame or
00:55:08
anything or are you okay? Um should I
00:55:12
say yes? No, I'd like to keep you on a
00:55:14
bit longer if we may. Okay. Um yeah. So,
00:55:19
how you se We'll get to missing pieces
00:55:21
soon because there's so much to talk
00:55:22
about with with that. Um, so you're 71
00:55:25
now? Two. 72.
00:55:29
You're looking great, by the way. So you
00:55:30
you you do ocean swims and you run.
00:55:35
Yeah, I I I not in your league any Well,
00:55:39
not I don't know if I was ever in your
00:55:40
league, but I I try and run about 50k a
00:55:43
week if I can or 40 to 50. Um, and I try
00:55:47
and swim uh or during summer I swim
00:55:50
every day if not twice twice some days.
00:55:53
And um yeah, so
00:55:56
yeah. So I've become um I'm I'm 52 now.
00:56:00
Uh in the last maybe 5 years I've become
00:56:02
obsessed with um like aging role models.
00:56:05
So I I look to see someone in their 70s
00:56:07
that's still active and still working
00:56:09
and still mentally and physically
00:56:11
physically fit. And I find it incredibly
00:56:12
inspiring. Um so you want what Yeah.
00:56:15
What were you like when you were my age?
00:56:17
Were you were you incredibly active and
00:56:18
fit then? Yeah. Yeah. I started um
00:56:21
running. I got to about 30 and I was
00:56:24
smoking and uh working in Dominion, you
00:56:26
know, working nights, going to the pub
00:56:29
down to Britannia every night at 7 for a
00:56:32
beer and and you're smoking, then you're
00:56:35
staying up all night because you know,
00:56:37
you socializing after you finish work
00:56:40
and going home at 4:00 or 5 in the
00:56:42
morning. And all of a sudden I realized
00:56:44
that's who I was. And I decided, well, I
00:56:47
I was still playing a little bit of ice
00:56:51
hockey then and um a bit of badminton,
00:56:53
but I wasn't really doing any real
00:56:56
sport, so I took up running and I sort
00:56:58
of got into marathons and and multisport
00:57:02
and that sort of stuff. And yeah, so and
00:57:05
you know, I kept I just kept running. Um
00:57:08
and I've never stopped.
00:57:10
Um you that's the physical picture. And
00:57:12
what about the mental side of things?
00:57:13
How have you keep yourself mentally
00:57:15
sharp?
00:57:17
Well, running helps you amazingly.
00:57:22
Um when I go, sorry, I've got this croak
00:57:26
in my throat. Um running Yeah, it does
00:57:28
help you amazingly. You go out and
00:57:30
that's your that's your time, your your
00:57:33
think time. And I I find, you know,
00:57:35
exercise is that time you can relax and
00:57:38
thing. But but yeah, the job's very
00:57:40
vibrant. I mean, it it keeps your mind
00:57:42
going, too. It's, you know, um you're
00:57:45
always thinking about what how you can
00:57:46
do things, what what you have to do. So,
00:57:49
yes. How many weeks of the year are you
00:57:52
away? Are you away quite a lot?
00:57:54
Um, yeah, it's it's
00:57:58
um it's hard to sort of judge it because
00:58:01
in New Zealand we do, you know, you're
00:58:04
away for two days, but you're only one
00:58:05
night or that. Um, but I just got back
00:58:08
from a trip um now which is uh one of
00:58:12
the longer trips I've ever done, which
00:58:13
was um almost five weeks. And uh that
00:58:18
was um it's funny I I used an app on
00:58:21
this trip and I kept a track of um what
00:58:24
I'd done and traveled and I did um
00:58:27
53,000 kilometers flying, 70 hours of
00:58:31
actual flying. I mean, it's um that's
00:58:34
quite hard work and uh it's really
00:58:36
draining and um and especially with all
00:58:40
the air conss and that you just Yeah.
00:58:42
This is probably why I've got the croaky
00:58:44
throat cuz all the air cons they they
00:58:48
really hurt you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:51
All right. Let's talk about missing
00:58:52
pieces for a bit. Um so, um a lot of
00:58:55
people want to know on Instagram about
00:58:56
the boat shed. Yeah. So, is the boat
00:58:59
shed yours? I wish it was.
00:59:03
Oh, you does the TV production company
00:59:05
rent it from Yeah. Right. It was
00:59:10
um Julie and um Greg and Mike Mallaloy
00:59:14
people who
00:59:17
ran Touchdown Eye Works, they they owned
00:59:21
a boat shed down thing. And when we
00:59:23
first started um missing pieces uh no
00:59:27
missing pieces we just filmed in an
00:59:29
office a mad sort of scene but then when
00:59:32
we moved on to Lost and Found we started
00:59:35
using the boat shed and we used Julie's
00:59:38
one and then they decided to sell it but
00:59:41
they'd had a big party at another boat
00:59:44
shed and um the one which we use now and
00:59:49
um and some very good friends of mine or
00:59:54
my then wife and mine um uh rang us up
00:59:58
and said uh David that boat shed you're
01:00:01
in you know do you know much about the
01:00:03
boat sheds and I said no no we we
01:00:06
that's people that works boat shed and
01:00:08
they said oh we're looking at buying one
01:00:10
down there and I said oh yeah they were
01:00:13
fantastic and they told me which one I
01:00:15
said oh that's an amazing boat shed
01:00:16
because as I say we'd been to hired it
01:00:19
work had hired it for a party and they
01:00:22
said, "They're getting in." And I said,
01:00:23
"Oh, yeah. Well, I'm looking for a boat
01:00:26
shed to to do the program." And they
01:00:29
said, "Oh, well," and um yeah, you can
01:00:31
use our one if you like. And um so um
01:00:34
that was John and Marin. They were
01:00:36
amazing. And and so we use it for for
01:00:39
filming obviously and and it's just a
01:00:41
fantastic location. So, do you do you
01:00:44
actually sit there and do work or you
01:00:45
there for an hour like doing a couple of
01:00:47
fake phone calls, a couple of fake
01:00:48
emails, get the shots you need, and then
01:00:50
leave? Um, I do work down there. I do.
01:00:55
So, it's not just getting the shot and
01:00:56
then pissing off to the office at home.
01:00:59
Um, well, it was a lot of pissing off to
01:01:01
the office at home as well. Um, and how
01:01:04
did how did the show like originally
01:01:06
come about? Was it like your idea that
01:01:07
you pitched or was it a producers's idea
01:01:09
or No, it goes way back to Julie
01:01:12
Christie. I mean, Julie and I had worked
01:01:14
together on um the Oakland Sun and and
01:01:17
she knew me and then
01:01:19
um they she'd come up with an idea to do
01:01:22
a thing called Lost Identity which was
01:01:24
um to reconnect young Mali chaps or
01:01:28
Mali young Mali with their Marai and she
01:01:33
wanted me to um produce it or direct it
01:01:36
and um and we talked about it and she
01:01:38
said well that that'll be interesting
01:01:41
first two or three times but after that
01:01:44
it would start to feel a bit repetitive
01:01:47
and uh so we said why don't we just do
01:01:50
finding taking people back to meet
01:01:53
family and um so it originated that way
01:01:56
and and as I said earlier I wasn't
01:01:58
really meant to present it but when the
01:02:01
first story we got was a um a woman in
01:02:04
Australia uh was dying she needed a
01:02:08
um uh a um transplant. Not a transplant,
01:02:13
but um bone marrow thing. Oh, yeah. Like
01:02:17
a transfusion or Yeah. And um so she was
01:02:20
trying to find her biological father.
01:02:22
And um so we did this, you know, frantic
01:02:25
search because it was sort of life and
01:02:28
death. And that's when I would was
01:02:30
trying to ring the guy in the farmhouse
01:02:32
and he was
01:02:33
saying his son wouldn't give us the
01:02:36
phone number. And so that was the first
01:02:38
story and and that's how I ended up on
01:02:41
television. And um who was who was the
01:02:43
original host going to be? We wasn't
01:02:46
going to be one. We were going to do it
01:02:47
as um all actuality. And um but then it
01:02:52
the first instant as I say it turned out
01:02:54
that it was impossible to do as all
01:02:56
actuality because the search was so
01:02:58
integral to it. and um and you know by
01:03:03
accident I I became the presenter. It's
01:03:06
amazing twist of events e Julie Christie
01:03:09
she's always had her sort of favorite
01:03:10
presenter so it could have very very
01:03:12
well been like Matthew Ridge present
01:03:18
or both of them with a can of fresh up.
01:03:21
Um yeah, how how has the show evolved
01:03:23
over time? Like um in terms of I think
01:03:26
technology has come a long way in the
01:03:28
time since the show started. Landlines
01:03:30
were a thing at the beginning and
01:03:31
they're not now. Has it be um
01:03:33
Ancestry.com? I don't think that was
01:03:34
even in existent when the show started.
01:03:37
Has has this made it um seismically
01:03:40
easier or is is it is it just different?
01:03:45
Um, when we look back at missing pieces,
01:03:48
it was relatively easy finding stories
01:03:51
and and finding people. you'd get on the
01:03:54
phone and you'd ring up and if if that
01:03:57
person didn't know, they'd tell you
01:03:59
someone else and you'd get on the phone
01:04:00
and and and get there because we were
01:04:03
doing almost all New Zealand, Australia
01:04:06
stories and everyone still had a phone,
01:04:09
you know, 20 odd years ago or 18 years
01:04:11
ago. And um with lost and found it
01:04:15
started getting more complicated and and
01:04:17
as I say the um phones the land
01:04:20
landlines started disappearing and
01:04:24
um and but also we were looking for
01:04:27
stories where it was a bit of um travel
01:04:30
and searching and adventure and um so we
01:04:35
we started looking for more complicated
01:04:37
stories and that's and we've just
01:04:39
progressed doing more and more
01:04:41
complicated as we can and and DNA was
01:04:44
fascinating when it came along, you
01:04:46
know, that we could do DNA tests and get
01:04:48
in, but then in the end um if a DNA test
01:04:52
is the way you solve
01:04:54
it, it's not much of a story. I mean,
01:04:58
but you can use DNA as a as a conduit to
01:05:03
an amazing story, which is what we did
01:05:05
on uh the very first show of David Lis
01:05:09
Investigates when we were trying to
01:05:11
solve the mystery of a baby left in a
01:05:13
phone box in 1960 in Palmyon North. And
01:05:18
um we tracked down um by doing a DNA
01:05:23
test we worked out
01:05:25
who the
01:05:28
biological mother was. But it was a
01:05:30
confusing test because it seemed that
01:05:33
both the father and mother were somehow
01:05:36
intertwined. And um and with that story
01:05:40
we were able
01:05:41
to we worked out who who the parents
01:05:45
were.
01:05:46
And
01:05:47
then but the real story is why did they
01:05:50
leave the baby in the phone box? And and
01:05:53
then tracking down that story made it
01:05:55
absolutely amazing. Um because it was a
01:05:59
I don't know did you ever see it? It was
01:06:01
a story about a um a couple. It was a
01:06:04
uncle and uncle and his niece. They had
01:06:07
got together um which is not an
01:06:10
incestuous relationship. It's a legal
01:06:12
relationship. But back in the 60s they
01:06:15
had no idea of that and they thought
01:06:17
what they had done was illegal and so
01:06:19
they had taken the baby to the phone
01:06:21
box, left it sitting in the phone box,
01:06:24
sat in the car around the corner and
01:06:25
watched until someone found it. So um
01:06:29
and that had been a mystery the police
01:06:31
had tried to solve um quite a few
01:06:33
journalists over the years had tried to
01:06:36
solve and um you know so that was an
01:06:40
amazing story. So that's what we're
01:06:41
trying to do now. much more complicated
01:06:44
stuff. How did you guys manage to solve
01:06:45
that when so many others had tried and
01:06:47
failed over the years? Well, as I say,
01:06:50
DNA, but the DNA was uh we found through
01:06:55
the DNA we found the
01:06:58
son because the both the parents had
01:07:02
died and he didn't know anything about
01:07:05
the story. All all he knew, alls we got
01:07:08
was he was a match. And then we had to
01:07:09
work backwards and find what the story
01:07:13
was of his parents
01:07:15
and even he was raised by them. But he
01:07:21
always thought
01:07:23
the his father was his uncle because his
01:07:27
parents kept up the pretense of living
01:07:29
in separate rooms even when they were
01:07:32
raising him.
01:07:34
I'm going have to look at look for this
01:07:35
episode. Being from Palmer North, I'm
01:07:37
not overly
01:07:38
surprised. Um, what is what's the
01:07:40
process when someone writes in like
01:07:43
there must be like some sort of filters
01:07:44
or some sort of check boxes? Yes. Um,
01:07:47
well, we we read them at work and then
01:07:50
you just look at them and you just
01:07:53
think, does that work? Does that work?
01:07:55
And then we we sort of come up a little
01:07:58
list of or constant changing list and we
01:08:01
ring people up and um find out more
01:08:04
information and try and find out how
01:08:06
solvable it is. Uh you know is is the
01:08:11
story does it have the legs to make make
01:08:14
a really good story and yeah so it's a
01:08:18
massive process of elimination. Yeah.
01:08:21
Because because that's the thing it's
01:08:22
it's not a community service is it? It's
01:08:24
um like creating you television
01:08:26
ultimately at the end of the day. Yeah.
01:08:28
So while while you for the people that
01:08:30
agree to be involved, it's um like a
01:08:32
service for them, it's the ultimate goal
01:08:34
is to entertain a wider audience. It is.
01:08:37
Yeah. That um the people who get
01:08:39
involved, they get an amazing deal. I
01:08:41
mean, not only do we find their family,
01:08:43
we take them take them to meet them. Um
01:08:46
that's part of the program. It's the
01:08:49
program pays for their journey. And so
01:08:53
everyone gets a good deal in a way.
01:08:55
Yeah. And at what stage do you become
01:08:57
involved? Like are you are you deep in
01:09:00
investigation or are you mainly talent?
01:09:02
No.
01:09:03
Um I Yeah. I mean I love the research
01:09:07
part of it. Um but as the program's got
01:09:10
more complicated in my life, uh has too.
01:09:13
So I don't get to quite do as much
01:09:15
research as I like doing. um because you
01:09:17
know you're you're so busy filming and
01:09:19
and uh putting the program together
01:09:22
afterwards. But yes, so it's a it's a
01:09:26
funny old team. It's basically all old
01:09:29
people.
01:09:31
Boomers. Boomers. Boomers working
01:09:34
technology hard. That's right.
01:09:37
Well, yeah, the television's pretty much
01:09:40
a young people's industry, you know,
01:09:42
like reality type television. And when
01:09:45
the uh you know team walks in the
01:09:47
average age the office goes voom. How
01:09:51
yeah how big is the team? Uh most of the
01:09:54
time well there's a cameraman who
01:09:57
there's two or three cameramen who work
01:09:58
with us but they're all guys who I've
01:10:00
known for 20 or 30 years. Um
01:10:04
there's couple of
01:10:06
researchers depending on what we're
01:10:09
doing. They're both all both in their
01:10:11
70s and uh wow and you know like me. So
01:10:15
um and then um when we get into uh
01:10:18
putting editing the program was um a
01:10:21
post producer who's normally a very
01:10:23
experienced person and then there's a
01:10:26
two depending on how many episodes we're
01:10:28
doing at a time two or three people
01:10:30
cutting the stories.
01:10:34
Are there many people that just don't
01:10:35
want to be found?
01:10:39
Um yeah
01:10:42
uh the people who just go to Australia
01:10:47
and have no footprint. You know those
01:10:50
are the really hard ones. Um you know
01:10:52
we've
01:10:53
got lots of stories which we'd love to
01:10:56
solve and we just you know can't get
01:10:59
any any link to them whatsoever. There's
01:11:02
a there's a Samoan chap who um a woman
01:11:07
is desperately trying to find. It's her
01:11:09
father. Um she hasn't basically seen him
01:11:12
in his life in her life. And
01:11:16
um ironically, her father
01:11:21
is his his her father's sister is a very
01:11:25
good friend of mine, but which just
01:11:26
coincidental and uh I've been looking
01:11:29
for him for you four or five years. No,
01:11:31
probably seven or eight years. And um
01:11:34
you keep trying to think you you might
01:11:35
get him, but he he's just gone. And as a
01:11:38
Samoan, he he's probably taken a new
01:11:41
title or something like that. And they
01:11:44
just vanish. And there are we found a
01:11:46
guy in um Darwin once. His his daughter
01:11:49
was looking for him. He was a um uh he
01:11:53
had gone to the Philippines, had a baby
01:11:55
and um and then he had vanished into um
01:12:00
the middle of Australia and by a very
01:12:04
fortuitous methods um which a policeman
01:12:08
helped us. We um found out he was living
01:12:12
in some um uh sort of state assisted
01:12:16
housing and we tracked him down and he
01:12:18
lived in a house which had no furniture,
01:12:20
nothing. He was he was just hiding from
01:12:23
the world and she got to meet him once
01:12:26
and that was it.
01:12:30
Was that what she needed? Was that
01:12:33
enough for her to like to give her
01:12:34
peace? Well, it gave her two answers.
01:12:37
Once she knew who he was and the other
01:12:39
she knew that he didn't want to continue
01:12:42
a relationship. So sometimes they don't
01:12:45
get they don't get happiness but they
01:12:48
get an answer. And
01:12:51
it's it's bloody sad, isn't it? Like um
01:12:53
there's uh I watched a bunch of episodes
01:12:56
over the weekend knowing that you know
01:12:57
we were catching up today. Um there was
01:12:59
a recent one the girl from um the girl
01:13:02
from Funanui uh Lithuania Justina. Yeah.
01:13:05
So, so she was adopted to a family in
01:13:07
Southland. Yes. And she now lives in
01:13:09
Fonganoi. How How old is she? 22. 22.
01:13:14
Yeah. And you connected her with her um
01:13:16
biological mom. So So she was taken off
01:13:18
her biological mom at a young age
01:13:19
because due to her mom's alcohol
01:13:21
alcoholism, spent time in an orphanage.
01:13:24
There was um so many elements to this
01:13:26
this story which was which was sad. Like
01:13:28
there was this um God I had tears
01:13:29
streaming down my my cheeks when in
01:13:31
Lithuania um you were walking through
01:13:33
the grounds of the orphanage and some of
01:13:35
the old caregivers came out. God, I'm
01:13:37
getting emotional just thinking about it
01:13:38
now. Like it was um just the the bond
01:13:41
that she had. Then then she was
01:13:43
reconnected with her mom and her mom's
01:13:45
in clearly in a different place now. And
01:13:46
that that bond the um you know nature
01:13:49
versus nurture thing was so strong. Um
01:13:52
so that was wonderful. And then it just
01:13:53
made me feel after the show finished
01:13:55
just made me feel incredibly sad for the
01:13:57
adoptive parents in Southland as well. I
01:14:00
know. Um, you know, they' done a
01:14:04
wonderful thing taking Justina and and
01:14:07
her sister in and
01:14:09
um and you know, as you say, nature and
01:14:13
nurture and and uh Justina's nature
01:14:15
wasn't the same as the people who were
01:14:18
nurturing her and being a bust up
01:14:21
between them and um but you know, they
01:14:25
done a wonderful job getting her to
01:14:27
where she was and uh now she's found and
01:14:30
a mom. But then a sad thing is there she
01:14:33
wants to go back and spend time.
01:14:36
But it just might be very hard for her
01:14:39
ever to do that. Why is that? Well, one,
01:14:43
she has to earn the money and and get
01:14:46
there and and two, if she gets there,
01:14:48
you know, she has to have something
01:14:51
which she can do and and you know, it's
01:14:53
just sometimes not as real. It's not as
01:14:57
simple as you hope it will be. Yeah. And
01:14:59
yeah, this this Yeah, these these poor
01:15:01
people in South Lindo, like uh you could
01:15:03
tell that you they've done everything
01:15:04
they could and all they want is for her
01:15:05
to be happy. Yeah. Um yeah. Yeah. It's
01:15:08
God, it's emotional stuff. How do how do
01:15:10
you hold it together?
01:15:12
Have you just Are you Are you just a
01:15:14
grizzly old journalist and you don't get
01:15:15
emotional about anything? No. No. But um
01:15:18
that moment and um you talked about it
01:15:21
uh at the orphanage, but that just
01:15:25
caught us all by surprise. We we we had
01:15:27
filmed her a little bit just wandering
01:15:29
the grounds and we were sort of uh
01:15:30
starting to get some cutaways as we call
01:15:33
them and all of a sudden was this scream
01:15:36
and uh I had my my cell phone. I just
01:15:39
jumped it out. Evas Bers who's the
01:15:42
cameraman. He he was on the other side
01:15:44
of the park and he just spun around and
01:15:46
started filming and it was you know and
01:15:48
you're sort of filming and almost crying
01:15:49
as you're filming because you know um
01:15:52
you just don't get moments like that.
01:15:56
Well, you you don't get moments like
01:15:58
that. Most of them we've constructed,
01:16:00
but that one we had no control over. It
01:16:03
just happened. Boom. And it was so
01:16:05
tearful and so intense.
01:16:08
Yeah. And there was just so much beauty
01:16:10
to that moment because when you hear the
01:16:12
word orphanage, they tend to get a bad
01:16:14
rap. Like you think of kids being you
01:16:17
mistreated or not well looked after.
01:16:19
It's an institution um at the end of the
01:16:21
day. But um just to see the love and the
01:16:23
bond um that this girl Justina had, you
01:16:26
know, with with these women that she
01:16:27
hadn't seen for like a decade or longer,
01:16:29
it was really powerful. And them, they
01:16:32
were all in tears, too, meeting her, you
01:16:35
know, and they couldn't even speak the
01:16:37
same language anymore.
01:16:39
Yeah. So, so who's who's over there with
01:16:41
you on these trips? Who's there? you and
01:16:45
on that that trip it's myself and my
01:16:47
cameraman and and very fortunately my
01:16:49
partner Clarinda came on that trip. It's
01:16:52
the first time she had gone on a trip
01:16:54
and uh so normally it's just two of us.
01:16:59
It's a small operation, isn't it? It's
01:17:01
when you compare it to like a I don't
01:17:03
know a Celebrity Treasure Island or
01:17:04
something. It's an oily rag operation.
01:17:06
You're punching well above your weight.
01:17:08
Oh yeah. Um but I keep it small. I mean,
01:17:11
you know, other productions turn up with
01:17:13
three or four people and I just find
01:17:15
that it loses the connection with the
01:17:17
people you're traveling with. I mean,
01:17:19
like when there was two of us go and we
01:17:21
take, you know, the person who's seeking
01:17:24
their family,
01:17:26
we're a little team of three, you know,
01:17:29
and we go out to dinner together and we
01:17:32
do it. But if you get into a group of
01:17:34
four production people, all of a sudden
01:17:36
the, you know, the bond disappears. And
01:17:40
also when you go to people's homes, I
01:17:42
mean, I I wouldn't want, you know, four
01:17:45
people tramping into my home to film a
01:17:47
TV program, but two people, especially
01:17:50
two old people, it's not not so bad.
01:17:54
We're not Oh, okay. So, if you have less
01:17:56
equipment like the the big less big
01:17:58
lights and intimidating cameras. Yeah.
01:18:00
Okay. And it just makes people much more
01:18:02
relaxed and and it's um and it's great.
01:18:06
Yeah. Yeah. and and behind the scenes,
01:18:08
what's your involvement um like with the
01:18:10
seeker, the person that's seeking their
01:18:12
family? Are you like a a counselor and
01:18:14
support person or do you do you try and
01:18:17
keep a sort of degree of separation or
01:18:20
No.
01:18:22
Um we're especially in a case like
01:18:25
Justina's and um I don't know if you saw
01:18:28
the episode last night um guy we took to
01:18:31
um uh Greece. I mean, you you really try
01:18:35
and look after them. I mean, not you
01:18:39
know, you're taking them on a very
01:18:42
emotional journey and you can't take
01:18:44
them there and leave them on their own.
01:18:46
You have to be you have to try and keep
01:18:49
a bond with them and and make sure
01:18:51
they're okay and and you know, talk to
01:18:53
them about what's happening. And um you
01:18:57
know you you just can't make it take
01:19:01
people on their own and and abandon them
01:19:04
and emotionally when they're there. So
01:19:07
yeah and that's the good thing about the
01:19:09
people who work on the program. Everyone
01:19:11
is of the same mindset. You know we try
01:19:14
and look after the people we we're
01:19:17
taking on that journey and also the
01:19:19
people we find. You know what does the
01:19:21
reunion day look like? Is it a long day?
01:19:24
No, it's it's chaotic and and fast
01:19:27
because um you know it's
01:19:31
um you probably know the formula. I I
01:19:34
sort of
01:19:35
say your family's up there and they walk
01:19:38
up. It's always a long way away, too.
01:19:41
Like your family's like 400 meters over
01:19:43
there. Why is it such a long distance?
01:19:46
Did you get all the shots you need? Yes.
01:19:48
Well, bas basically to um because we're
01:19:51
trying to film um the people watching
01:19:55
and the people coming there. So I often
01:19:59
wave goodbye to the person and then I
01:20:01
run around the corner and and get the
01:20:03
iPhone up and and try and film the
01:20:05
people waiting. So you get their
01:20:07
reaction and you need to give give a bit
01:20:09
of time and it just gives um more
01:20:12
opportunity for you know a little bit
01:20:15
more emotion
01:20:17
and and then when that happens it's it's
01:20:21
sort of chaos with the actual reunion
01:20:24
and then you know we've try and very
01:20:26
quickly refilm parts just because we
01:20:29
can't get all the angles but you know um
01:20:33
they normally are slightly wider shots
01:20:35
so or or or over the shoulder shot. So,
01:20:38
it just gives us editing points. Yeah.
01:20:40
But cuz the the the moment itself, it
01:20:43
has to be a one take wonder, doesn't it?
01:20:44
The main moment is a one take wonder.
01:20:46
Yeah. Has the cameraman ever cocked it
01:20:49
up?
01:20:50
Oh, well, the batteries run out or
01:20:52
something's
01:20:54
not quite as bad as that, but one one
01:20:56
one cameraman, Graeme Richie, um we were
01:20:59
had two twins walking to meet their dad
01:21:03
and one of them
01:21:06
bolted just went round Graham and up and
01:21:09
Graham's running down the wolf trying to
01:21:12
catch up.
01:21:14
Um, what's been your biggest lesson
01:21:17
about humans? And, you know, I guess
01:21:19
like nurture versus nature and all that
01:21:20
stuff.
01:21:22
Two big lessons. Um, nature and nurture.
01:21:24
I'm I'm just staggered at nature. I
01:21:28
mean, how much nature plays a big part.
01:21:30
I mean, you know, I've seen people walk
01:21:33
up and meet each other and, you know,
01:21:35
they'll do a very unusual body movement
01:21:38
like
01:21:39
um you won't see it on podcast, but
01:21:42
someone goes like that and and two
01:21:46
people went like that, you know, dad and
01:21:47
daughter, and that's not natural, but
01:21:51
they just did it and they've never never
01:21:53
met each other. M but personalitywise um
01:21:56
you know so many people talk about um
01:22:00
they've met someone and and I say well
01:22:02
what are they like and it says it's like
01:22:05
we've always known them they've just
01:22:06
walked back in the door been away for a
01:22:08
while very very similar and the other
01:22:12
big thing I I suppose I've learned is
01:22:13
that
01:22:15
inherently everyone is good you know
01:22:19
gang members come up to us and and tell
01:22:21
me their story and I've had um done big
01:22:25
stories with both fairly high pro people
01:22:29
who've been fairly high up and done some
01:22:33
sometimes quite bad crimes and both both
01:22:36
black power and mongrel mob but I
01:22:38
haven't really dealt with some of the
01:22:40
other gangs but not not because we we
01:22:43
haven't they just haven't appeared but
01:22:45
I've had a a black power senior black
01:22:49
power guy balling his eyes out at his
01:22:52
father's grave gave over a story which
01:22:54
we were doing. I had a mongrel mob guy
01:22:57
shedding tears all over the place. You
01:22:59
know, he had done six years in prison
01:23:01
comes out find we found his father and
01:23:04
he's just balling because that's what
01:23:05
he'd wanted all his life. So, you know,
01:23:08
even those guys were they might be doing
01:23:11
bad, but there's still that absolute
01:23:14
longing for family. Yeah. Michelle
01:23:17
Obama's got a quote that I really like.
01:23:18
It's um most people are hard not to like
01:23:20
up close. Um, which is it's it's it's
01:23:24
really true. There's generally like a
01:23:25
little bit of a little bit of good in
01:23:27
everyone. What about you? Are you always
01:23:29
able to control the crying? What do you
01:23:32
when you finish an emotional day of
01:23:33
filming, do you you go back to your
01:23:35
hotel room and and cry or you are you
01:23:38
quite sort of stoic?
01:23:40
Um, as I say, I mean,
01:23:44
I the camera is always away from me in
01:23:46
the big moment and because that's the
01:23:50
important moments happening with the
01:23:52
other people. So, there are tears
01:23:54
sometimes from me. But, um, to say I go
01:23:57
back to the room and cry, no, but I've
01:24:00
rewatched programs I've done and I've
01:24:03
I've been in tears watching them because
01:24:05
they're just so amazing. Well, so like
01:24:08
like like heaps of other New Zealand
01:24:09
men, you're watching it on TV. Yeah.
01:24:13
Seen the cut version. Yeah. Well, I you
01:24:15
know, like with some programs that you
01:24:17
know, they'll come up and I'll watch
01:24:19
them four or five years later and you
01:24:21
just sit there and watch it and think
01:24:23
this is incredible. You know, not
01:24:25
because I did it, but what the event is
01:24:28
all about. And it's it's just you sit
01:24:30
there and you cry, you know, because it
01:24:33
is amazing television. And it's just,
01:24:35
you know, it's it's drama, but it's
01:24:38
real. Oh, it's so powerful. Has the show
01:24:43
um taken a toll on you emotionally?
01:24:46
No, I think it's um made me a better
01:24:49
person in a way. Yeah. Um because you
01:24:53
you
01:24:54
you I've always known I was privileged
01:24:57
because of my upbringing and just, you
01:25:00
know, the fact that I had a good life.
01:25:01
Um but when you realize how
01:25:04
much better off you are than so many
01:25:07
people and um you just you know you just
01:25:12
realize you got to be you know a bit
01:25:14
more sensitive to people about a lot of
01:25:17
things the things I've gone through you
01:25:19
know and you might think ah they're
01:25:22
terrible people but they've been through
01:25:24
hell you know and uh you I was talking
01:25:27
to a woman yesterday and it's a story we
01:25:30
may do but she's just, you know, telling
01:25:33
me her story of drugs, you know, um
01:25:37
being sexually abused, all sorts of
01:25:39
things. And uh you know, you just think
01:25:42
that's that's so terrible and how lucky
01:25:45
we are that that was in our lives.
01:25:49
You can never tell what someone's been
01:25:50
through just from um outward
01:25:52
appearances. Do you think it's made you
01:25:54
like a more empatheticthetic person or
01:25:56
you know better with like your your own
01:25:58
personal relationships and vulnerability
01:26:00
and communication and things like that?
01:26:03
Yeah. Well, the program's done that and
01:26:05
so is old age.
01:26:07
Old age. You reckon? Yeah. I find um
01:26:10
Yeah. I'm I'm definitely leaning into my
01:26:13
more emotional side as I I get older and
01:26:15
I'm here for it. Yeah. Not mad about it
01:26:17
at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think
01:26:19
so? That's come with aging. you've been
01:26:21
very very um public about your your your
01:26:24
relationship that you're in at the
01:26:25
moment. Um and some of the things I read
01:26:27
that you've said about your partner are
01:26:28
just like wonderful and really open
01:26:30
displays of affection. Yeah. Well, yeah,
01:26:33
I work on a program where I expect
01:26:35
everyone else to, as I say, tell the
01:26:37
truth and and it's just true. I mean,
01:26:40
yeah, I'm just, you know, very happy. I
01:26:43
mean, my life is
01:26:45
um just a very lucky one at the moment.
01:26:48
I mean, you know, I got a great job. I
01:26:51
got a great partner and I'm healthy. So,
01:26:55
it's just so good. I mean, something to
01:26:57
smile about, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.
01:27:00
What's someone actually I've got these
01:27:01
Instagram questions. Yeah. Someone
01:27:03
someone asked, um, does he smile in real
01:27:06
life? You I've seen a lot of teeth
01:27:08
today. You're you're a very happy guy.
01:27:10
Is it Is it almost like a character that
01:27:13
you're portraying in the show in a in a
01:27:16
you know what I mean? Hey, you you don't
01:27:17
really smile or laugh in the show, do
01:27:18
you? Is it just not the environment? Uh,
01:27:20
just a little bit, but but I'm very much
01:27:23
my persona on TV is that I'm the conduit
01:27:28
and I'm not the star. I mean, I don't
01:27:31
know if you've watched, there's a
01:27:32
British program where a couple of people
01:27:34
are adopes and they do a very similar
01:27:36
program and and they're there holding
01:27:38
the person and gushing and saying, you
01:27:40
know, I'm crying with you and all this
01:27:43
and I want the story to be about the
01:27:46
people. I mean, there's a heck of a lot
01:27:48
of me in it, but it it's taking the
01:27:51
telling the journey. It's not not about
01:27:53
my emotions or how I feel. Um though we
01:27:58
do have you know comments about you know
01:28:00
I'm worried this is going to happen and
01:28:02
things like that but this the program is
01:28:04
about those people. Someone wants to
01:28:07
know if you've kept in touch with any of
01:28:09
the people from the show
01:28:11
a heck of a lot. I mean it's it's hard
01:28:14
to keep up with them all but I mean you
01:28:18
know yeah I mean lots and lots of them
01:28:21
you know lots of them are on my Facebook
01:28:23
page. Um people ring me up every now and
01:28:26
again out of the blue and just have a
01:28:29
chat. I mean it's great and you know
01:28:32
it's a bond you create isn't it? Well
01:28:34
you've gone through a pretty amazing
01:28:36
event with some of the people you know
01:28:39
you know and um you know so much about
01:28:42
their lives that you know it's hard to
01:28:45
just walk away and say they don't exist
01:28:47
anymore. Yeah. Now to the airports
01:28:50
question.
01:28:51
So many people would are curious about
01:28:53
the air points. So you must be um you
01:28:55
must be on elite. Yes. How many banked
01:28:58
years have you got?
01:29:00
I don't know. Enough to last you the
01:29:01
rest of your life. No, it's only five or
01:29:03
six or something like that. Wow. But uh
01:29:06
yeah, but but yeah, I don't sit in the
01:29:09
front of the plane. You don't fly
01:29:11
business? No. [ __ ] Why not? Well,
01:29:14
it's a New Zealand government funded
01:29:16
program. I mean, you can't go and spend
01:29:18
a fortune there. Yeah, but you're you're
01:29:20
a man in your 70s. You've you've done
01:29:22
very well for yourself. You've devoted
01:29:24
your life to this career. Um like pre
01:29:27
this TV series, it's like yeah, like a
01:29:30
30-year journalistic apprenticeship that
01:29:32
got you to this point. I think you've
01:29:33
earned the right.
01:29:36
I thought the come up to work and do my
01:29:38
negotiations for Well, the show we were
01:29:41
talking about before with um Justina in
01:29:43
Lithuania, like you you flew separately
01:29:45
and I thought I thought I know what Lis
01:29:47
is doing here. Um, she's flying economy,
01:29:50
so he's flying separately so he can go
01:29:51
in his 1A seat. Yeah. Why did we fly
01:29:54
separate? Oh, we flew separately. Some
01:29:57
ground work, I think, in advance. Oh, we
01:29:58
sort of were, but but also um because we
01:30:01
were doing a a big round the world trip.
01:30:04
We we were on a round the world fair.
01:30:06
And so we were flying Star Alliance, but
01:30:09
with Justina and the quickest way was uh
01:30:12
on
01:30:13
um a direct route, but also but we we
01:30:16
always land two to three days
01:30:19
before the people who are coming because
01:30:22
we've got to go and do the work. Some
01:30:25
days it's sometimes it's four or five
01:30:27
days because we've got research to do on
01:30:29
the ground. Yeah. You're using your
01:30:32
points to upgrade to premium economy
01:30:33
though, aren't you? Sorry, I'm still
01:30:35
fixated on the seat. Oh, no, no. I I do
01:30:38
have a a little bit of upgrade. I I
01:30:41
normally try and get premium economy.
01:30:43
Yeah. And and then I try and use my
01:30:46
point my um upgrades, but in New
01:30:49
Zealand's a swine because they have
01:30:51
these you get two upgrades a year and
01:30:53
you keep them for what you think's a
01:30:55
long flight and then you you apply for
01:30:57
them on the long flight and they're full
01:30:59
and all of a sudden you lose your
01:31:01
upgrade because they don't they don't
01:31:04
carry over to the next year.
01:31:08
It's a scam, isn't it? It's a scam. I
01:31:10
haven't done much travel the last couple
01:31:12
of years. I've just um I I went from
01:31:13
elite to gold and then down to silver.
01:31:16
Silver you get nothing. I can't even get
01:31:17
to the lounge anymore.
01:31:20
It's terrible. Um you must be a very
01:31:22
good packer when you travel. Like um you
01:31:25
you generally do um the show in black.
01:31:27
Yeah. Do you do you just have carry-on
01:31:29
or do you have chicken luggage? Oh, no.
01:31:31
I have um chicken, but yeah. Um, the
01:31:34
blacks are just for continuity
01:31:37
of, you know, if you got a red shirt on
01:31:40
one day and a blue shirt the next and
01:31:41
and you you think I want to use a bit of
01:31:44
that red shirt day on the other day and
01:31:47
you can't because you're in different
01:31:48
clothes. Yeah. Oh, that makes sense.
01:31:50
Yeah. Um, someone wants to know, "How do
01:31:53
I help my mom find her father with no
01:31:56
information on him?" Yeah. What's the
01:31:59
minimum information someone needs to
01:32:00
track down a
01:32:03
um well no information it's a it's a DNA
01:32:06
test. There's nothing else really you
01:32:08
can do. Um but one of the big things is
01:32:11
getting getting your facts right, you
01:32:14
know. Um we get so many people who apply
01:32:16
and they misspell names. They don't um
01:32:19
they haven't done the basics. They they
01:32:22
don't you know tell us how old the
01:32:24
person was, where it happened. I mean,
01:32:27
it's getting all all the actual details
01:32:30
correct and and then it becomes easier
01:32:32
and and if it's a New Zealand thing, the
01:32:36
thing normally is to go backwards or
01:32:39
sideways um you know to try and find
01:32:42
someone. So if you're trying to
01:32:44
find say an uncle, you go sideways and
01:32:48
you find out you know um he might have
01:32:51
had sisters or something like that. you
01:32:53
try and find them or you find someone
01:32:55
who might have known him or go backwards
01:32:57
and try and find out who the
01:32:59
parents grandparents were and work work
01:33:02
that way. So, you know, it's not going
01:33:05
straight at them. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Is
01:33:08
there a story that still sits in the
01:33:09
back of your mind that you weren't able
01:33:11
to solve?
01:33:13
Well, as as I say, the one about the
01:33:15
Simone chap, I'd love to solve that one.
01:33:18
Um, there's lots of them. I mean,
01:33:20
there's a
01:33:21
um just trying to think which one's a
01:33:24
good example,
01:33:25
but
01:33:26
yeah, like um Justina's one, which I put
01:33:31
off for basically 5 years because I said
01:33:34
she was too young when she was 17. Um
01:33:38
trying to find her mom was great because
01:33:40
it it
01:33:41
just she was a little nagger. She she'd
01:33:44
ring up and I'd ring her, you know, for
01:33:46
for five years we'd keep kept in
01:33:48
contact. And then finally I thought,
01:33:50
right, you're old enough now. I'll give
01:33:51
it a crack.
01:33:54
[ __ ] that's powerful. E, like you don't
01:33:56
see something like that on TV, but like
01:33:58
you've had a real significant um impact
01:34:01
in her life and made a real difference
01:34:02
to her life. I hope so. Yeah. I hope it
01:34:07
it does her good. And um yeah, what's
01:34:09
given her some answers and Yeah. Yeah.
01:34:12
Um, and she still has really good
01:34:14
contact with the mom, even though they
01:34:16
can't speak the language, but Google
01:34:18
Google Translate does a lot.
01:34:22
Um, what's the bleakest slashcariest
01:34:24
place he's traveled to?
01:34:29
You're not really going to scary places,
01:34:30
are you?
01:34:31
Oh, well, depends what you call scary.
01:34:35
Like, like I've just been in South
01:34:36
Africa and um yeah, people say don't go
01:34:39
into a squatter village. Well, we went
01:34:41
for a walk around the squatter village.
01:34:43
You
01:34:44
know, most people, as I say, are good. I
01:34:48
mean, there's probably some bad people
01:34:49
in that squatter village, but most
01:34:51
people were good. And, you know, you
01:34:53
just got to be careful walking around
01:34:55
there. Not because you're worried about
01:34:58
danger, but but being just that terrible
01:35:01
white voyeristic tourist, you know. Um
01:35:05
um scary places. Um I I don't know if
01:35:09
there are places which are meant to be
01:35:12
scary and and they probably are but um
01:35:15
you know like I went to Sierra Leone
01:35:17
which actually turned out to be an
01:35:19
amazing place.
01:35:20
Um uh where else? Trying to think. Um in
01:35:26
this series we went to um Honduras and
01:35:29
and you
01:35:31
know we're talking in the street and the
01:35:33
guy says don't go up there. You people
01:35:35
with guns up there and that sort of
01:35:36
thing but
01:35:39
um but absolutely scared? Probably not.
01:35:44
I mean, um, no, it's like you can, I
01:35:47
mean, even here in Oakuckland, you can
01:35:49
find trouble if you're looking for it.
01:35:50
Yes. And you can generally a avoid
01:35:52
trouble and keep yourself safe in most
01:35:54
situations, can't you? Yeah. Absolutely.
01:35:56
Do you do you run when you travel? You
01:35:58
go to these places and you always. Yeah.
01:36:00
It's just a magic way of um, you know,
01:36:02
when I arrive to go and scout the city.
01:36:06
You know, you go for a run and you can
01:36:08
find out, well, one, where's a good
01:36:10
restaurant around the corner? Yeah. Is
01:36:12
there a good park? You know, normally I
01:36:14
look up and maps and see where where are
01:36:16
good locations we might film and then
01:36:18
I'll go for a run and take them in and
01:36:21
uh as I say it just freeze you freeze
01:36:24
the mind. So yeah. Yeah. Well, your best
01:36:26
way to shake off a bit of jet lag as
01:36:28
well. Yeah. Oh yeah. I I agree
01:36:30
wholeheartedly. Best way to explore a
01:36:32
new city. Um yeah. How's your how's your
01:36:33
body? Are your joints okay? Is
01:36:35
everything your knees okay? Your hips
01:36:37
okay? so far.
01:36:40
Um, has he ever thought about expanding
01:36:43
and investigating other stuff?
01:36:46
Well, just a question from Instagram.
01:36:48
Yes. Yes and no. I mean, that was sort
01:36:50
of my career before I started this, you
01:36:53
know, um, as a journalist. Yeah. Um,
01:36:57
yeah, I think that'll do from Instagram.
01:36:59
There so many about the air points.
01:37:01
There's so much curiosity about that.
01:37:04
Yeah.
01:37:09
Um, do you want to do some We'll end up
01:37:11
with some personal questions. Eh, some
01:37:13
more personal questions. Oh, I thought
01:37:15
we'd done those. Yeah, but go ahead. Oh,
01:37:17
no. No, there's more. So, um, yes,
01:37:19
you're in your early 70s now. Um,
01:37:21
biggest adversity you've been through in
01:37:22
your life, you reckon? Would it be the
01:37:23
helicopter crash?
01:37:26
No one gets to the luxurious position of
01:37:28
being, I'd say my age, but even you've
01:37:31
got a couple of decades on me without
01:37:32
going through some sort of crunchy
01:37:34
stuff. Well, the helicopter crash in in
01:37:38
a um one sense, but you know, um
01:37:43
relationship
01:37:45
things, even if it's a good thing you
01:37:48
get out of them, they're still difficult
01:37:50
to go through.
01:37:52
Yeah, I'd agree. It's sad, eh?
01:37:55
and it never gets any easier. Would you
01:37:57
get will you get married again?
01:37:59
Have you had this discussion? No, we we
01:38:02
haven't. But um and it's a funny thing.
01:38:05
I I I don't um hanging anything too much
01:38:09
on on marriage anymore. I mean, you
01:38:13
know, you know, a relation a
01:38:16
relationship is really good. You just
01:38:18
know it. And and I don't know if I need
01:38:21
a tag on it. Yeah.
01:38:23
Yeah. Your partner, she's been married
01:38:25
previously. Yes. Yes. But she'd been
01:38:28
separated for quite a few years. Yeah.
01:38:30
What would you say your best and worst
01:38:32
habits are?
01:38:37
[Laughter]
01:38:41
Good
01:38:42
[Laughter]
01:38:44
gracious. Worst habit probably talking
01:38:47
too much. Oh, which it's very good for a
01:38:49
thing like a podcast. Um, and
01:38:52
uh, best have it. I don't know.
01:38:55
Hopefully I'm being nice to people, but
01:38:58
you know, I bark at a few people a few
01:39:00
times. So,
01:39:03
yeah. Yeah. Have you Have you gotten
01:39:04
softer around the edges as you get
01:39:06
older? I think we all do. E. Oh,
01:39:07
absolutely. Yeah.
01:39:10
Um you know you become more tolerant of
01:39:13
some things but you get more annoyed at
01:39:16
some other things which you know
01:39:22
just you know everyone talks about the
01:39:26
the um what do you call it the u
01:39:28
entitled
01:39:30
people the sense of entitlement these
01:39:32
days and and you know the idea you know
01:39:36
my politics are very left it and
01:39:40
um I get intolerant of
01:39:43
of the very right, you know, and um you
01:39:47
know, to heck with everyone else, they
01:39:50
haven't earned their money, you know. I
01:39:52
do find that very sad.
01:39:55
Yeah. I read in a couple of interviews
01:39:56
you you talked um about politics.
01:39:59
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Why do
01:40:02
you worry so much about something that
01:40:03
you can't control? Do you know what I
01:40:05
mean? Well, if we all didn't worry about
01:40:07
it, you get Donald Trump.
01:40:11
Yeah. The American people, it's like
01:40:13
you've got what you what you wanted.
01:40:15
This is what you voted in. Yeah. Yeah.
01:40:17
Um, is there a what if that keeps you up
01:40:19
at night? What if?
01:40:23
Um, well, there's always what ifs. I
01:40:26
mean,
01:40:27
you But I laugh and I think, what what
01:40:30
if I'd met Clarinda, you know, when I
01:40:32
was 20?
01:40:33
But then again, I showed her a photo the
01:40:36
other day when I was 30 and she says,
01:40:37
"Oh, God." So maybe we we would never
01:40:41
have got on then. Oh, were you sort of
01:40:43
thinking that like she could have been
01:40:44
your life partner? So in a sense, you're
01:40:46
sort of kicking yourself that you didn't
01:40:48
meet her until your mid-60s. Well, no.
01:40:50
I'm I'm thinking what if if I had, but
01:40:53
then you think, no, the person I was
01:40:56
when I was 20 is a totally different
01:40:58
person to who I am now. you know and so
01:41:02
what ifs um don't really count because
01:41:04
if you know you know what if I you know
01:41:07
stayed at university and become you know
01:41:10
got a you know decided to be a lawyer
01:41:14
you know what a what a terrible life
01:41:16
that would have been. Yeah. Yeah. And um
01:41:19
you're back to your partner. I mean
01:41:20
everything's a right place right time
01:41:22
sort of thing isn't it? Yes. Um when was
01:41:24
the last time you cried?
01:41:30
um probably about um two or three days
01:41:34
ago when I watched
01:41:36
um one of the episodes we're doing and I
01:41:39
just thought that that's pretty magic.
01:41:41
And uh and possibly when the Blues lost
01:41:44
to the Crusaders.
01:41:47
Oh, hell of a game though, wasn't it? My
01:41:48
god, that James iconic kick right on
01:41:52
right on the full time. You know, the
01:41:53
Blues Blues were 20 points better than
01:41:56
them, but I lost. Oh, if you're that
01:41:58
much into the Blues, you must be used to
01:42:00
losing by now, right?
01:42:02
Yeah. I don't have a good track record.
01:42:04
I I like the Highlanders, the Blues, and
01:42:06
the Endure.
01:42:08
Um, what are you most afraid of?
01:42:12
Aging, but not really afraid of it. It
01:42:15
it it's not aging you afraid of it. It's
01:42:20
um not being able to do things. What
01:42:24
What can't you do? Well, at the moment,
01:42:26
nothing. That's That's what I love about
01:42:28
being fit and healthy and running. It
01:42:30
means, you know, if I want to go for a
01:42:32
pedal over to Rangoto, I can get in a
01:42:34
kayak and pedal over there. If I want to
01:42:36
go for a swim, I can. And but, you know,
01:42:39
I've just been I'm editing a story at
01:42:42
the moment where where a lady's in a
01:42:44
wheelchair. And I just think how how
01:42:46
horrible would that be? But I I know
01:42:48
you'd adjust and everything else, but
01:42:51
you know, I prefer I didn't end up like
01:42:54
that. Yeah. You you've got great health
01:42:56
on your side, don't you? Is is is it
01:42:58
good um genetics in your family or is
01:43:01
this just through like hard work? Um no,
01:43:04
not no super genetics. It's Yeah, but
01:43:08
yeah, I'm just very lucky. I I decided
01:43:11
to run and swim and I've always just
01:43:14
kept doing it and you know
01:43:17
as you know, it's it's invigorating and
01:43:19
makes you feel alive. I mean, you know,
01:43:21
go out in the bush and run for a couple
01:43:23
of hours. It's it's just incredible.
01:43:25
Yeah. Oh. Oh, no. It's it's wonderful.
01:43:28
And the mental health side of things,
01:43:29
it's not something that I ever really
01:43:31
thought of when I started running, but
01:43:32
um yeah, like with, you know, it's
01:43:35
become very clear to me now that um it's
01:43:38
probably more mental than physical. Like
01:43:39
the the buzz you get out of it. Yeah.
01:43:41
It's incredible. Eh, um do you have any
01:43:44
regrets?
01:43:50
Not not not any super regrets. Nothing
01:43:53
nothing major. I mean you you always
01:43:55
regret you know some decisions you made
01:43:58
but but but that's life. Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:01
Nothing which I think oh god I wish I'd
01:44:03
done that. Yeah. What a great way to be.
01:44:06
Biggest flaws.
01:44:10
Oh gracious. I'm hating this. E I can
01:44:13
tell. I
01:44:15
didn't Yeah.
01:44:17
Um
01:44:19
Yeah. I don't know. Lack of tolerance.
01:44:23
Yeah. Yeah. But but I don't know if I
01:44:26
but yeah. What about um the future
01:44:30
goals? Future goals. Well, just to keep
01:44:34
healthy. Really? Keep healthy and um
01:44:36
happy. Yeah. What about legacy? How how
01:44:40
would you um want to be remembered? Not
01:44:42
just as like a storyteller, but as a as
01:44:44
a person as well.
01:44:49
Oh goodness. Um I don't know. I just
01:44:53
Well, hopefully just kindly. I mean, I
01:44:55
hope people don't, you know, say he was
01:44:58
a grumpy old bastard or um you
01:45:00
know, he was pretty useless at that. um
01:45:04
you know just that people do have a a
01:45:07
relatively good memory of me rather than
01:45:10
a a bad one. And three words that your
01:45:14
adult kids would use to describe
01:45:22
you depends what mood they're in.
01:45:27
Oh, I know. Well, hopefully
01:45:30
um
01:45:32
decent caring and
01:45:35
um nice, but I don't know. I mean, you
01:45:38
know, but I I don't know. Oh, they're
01:45:40
great words. You have to text them and
01:45:42
ask them to see if they match up. Let me
01:45:44
know. Um and last one, David LMA. So,
01:45:47
you're proud of yourself.
01:45:52
Um yeah, I suppose so. I mean, you know,
01:45:56
that's such a funny answer. You know,
01:45:58
um, Michael Galvin, Chris Warner on
01:46:00
Shortland Street. Yeah. I had him on the
01:46:02
podcast. Um, and I asked him that
01:46:03
question and he was like, "Well, I'm not
01:46:06
ashamed of myself." Yeah. It's a It's a
01:46:09
strange one for I think men in
01:46:11
particular of a certain age to answer
01:46:13
because proud is sort of like it's your
01:46:15
ego. Um, you know, am I pleased with
01:46:19
what who I've become at the moment? I
01:46:22
think I am. Yeah. But to say proud, that
01:46:26
sort of, you know, takes you sort of
01:46:28
praising yourself in a way, you know.
01:46:33
Yeah. But you you look back on your life
01:46:34
and career, it's it's it's been pretty
01:46:36
bloody awesome, right? As I say, I've
01:46:38
had a hell of a lucky life. Yeah. I
01:46:40
mean, you know, it's just, you know, so
01:46:43
many great jobs, so many great
01:46:46
opportunities, so many great trips, you
01:46:48
know, it's and um, you know, and lots of
01:46:51
good people in it. But you're old enough
01:46:53
to know that you you sort of create your
01:46:55
own luck to a degree. Well, that's what
01:46:58
I say about um, working journalism and
01:47:00
that, you do create your own luck. I
01:47:02
mean, you know, when you're doing
01:47:05
stories, hard
01:47:07
work, when you solve something, it
01:47:10
hopefully it's through hard work, not
01:47:12
just luck. Yeah. And and the luck is
01:47:15
from hard work.
01:47:18
Hey, this has been really enjoyable
01:47:19
today. You got a hell of an edit to do.
01:47:25
Really? Oh, I I tend to I I um when I go
01:47:30
to edit, I hate the sound of my own
01:47:31
voice and I I find out I find what I
01:47:33
edit is generally the times I've said um
01:47:36
or where I've said dumb things and I get
01:47:38
to the end of the edit and I'm full of
01:47:39
self-loathing. So, I've stopped the
01:47:40
editing. I give every single guest the
01:47:42
um the right to remove anything they
01:47:44
want taken out, but otherwise I don't
01:47:46
really I don't really bother with it. Um
01:47:48
well, what do you want edited out?
01:47:50
Anything? Uh I mean, you stand by what
01:47:54
you say. I don't really care. I mean, in
01:47:58
in that sense, it's nothing. Hopefully,
01:48:00
I've never said hopefully I haven't said
01:48:03
anything which is bad. And um yeah, and
01:48:06
hopefully I haven't said anything that's
01:48:08
stupid. No, you left that to me. Um
01:48:11
well, this has been wonderful. I've
01:48:13
really enjoyed it. Um this is the first
01:48:14
time we've we've met and um yeah, next
01:48:17
time I see you in New World, I'll
01:48:18
definitely say good day. Oh, that's
01:48:21
great. What What about you? Has this put
01:48:22
you off podcast for life or have you has
01:48:25
it been a cathartic experience, an
01:48:27
enjoyable experience? Well, it was
01:48:28
interesting because, you know, when I
01:48:30
was asked to do this and I sat down, I
01:48:32
thought, what the hell is he going to
01:48:33
ask? Because, you know, it it
01:48:36
it's interesting being on the other side
01:48:38
of an interview because, you know, um,
01:48:41
but most people, you're going to do an
01:48:43
interview and you've got a specific
01:48:45
topic you're going to talk to them
01:48:47
about. But when it's just, you know,
01:48:50
life, you can't plan and and you're
01:48:53
sitting there and thinking, "Oh, my
01:48:54
memory, you know, if you ask me about
01:48:56
that, I God knows if I can remember
01:48:58
that, you know." Um because, yeah, it's
01:49:01
hard to there's nothing you can prep for
01:49:04
on this sort of thing. Yeah. Well, from
01:49:07
my perspective, um having done over 200
01:49:09
of these, I've enjoyed this immensely
01:49:11
and it's been wonderful to connect with
01:49:12
you today and I can't thank you enough
01:49:13
for your time. I've heard you say that
01:49:15
to everyone.
01:49:17
I don't think I Well, I I I I genuinely
01:49:21
do mean that like if you know if if
01:49:23
someone's going to come and give me like
01:49:24
a couple of hours of their time, which
01:49:26
this has been today, um I'm definitely
01:49:28
going to go out of my way to do as much
01:49:29
research and preparation as I can um out
01:49:32
of respect. Um yeah, and I I I genuinely
01:49:36
do do mean that. That's um it's very
01:49:38
earnest. Yeah. Oh, that's great. David
01:49:40
Lus, cheers. Thank you so much.
