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[Music]
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hey Dom here with a quick warning before
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we get into this EP of the Dom Harvey
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podcast this episode may be upsetting to
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some viewers it centers around uh
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terminal illness and assisted dying
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please view with caution this is the
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Tracy Hickman story hello Jessica
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welcome to
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my Tracy there was a that was an inside
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joke um we caught up yesterday I I text
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you and I called you trace it's a thing
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I do I abbreviate people's names um and
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you loathe Trace I do I hate there's
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only a couple of people who Call Me
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Trace who get away with it one of them
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because he's always called me trace and
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I should have corrected him in the early
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stages and I didn't so I let him get
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away with it now but most people who
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know me would never go
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there and yeah the Jessica thing you
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said to me Jessica was your preferred
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name yeah so when I was younger I had a
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cat that I called Jessica I had a VW be
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that I called Jessica I had a computer
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that I called Jessica I I wanted to be
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Jessica and for a little while I had one
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boyfriend and he called me Jessica and I
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kept ignoring him he was like well look
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you know if you're going to be called
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Jessica you've got to actually react to
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the name so um so I gave up on that yeah
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I I love the um the the jaxter position
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between the trivialness of this and what
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you're you're dealing with at the moment
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I think it's really cool it's cute um
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yeah so first of all let's open with a
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bit of context so
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um you you're currently very very unwell
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y um you've got terminal cancer and um
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you've executed your right to die and
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you're going to you're going to die on
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May 22nd which is about 3 weeks from now
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so it's um I've got I've met two doctors
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who've both said that I am eligible for
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executing the right and I've got a
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meeting later today with the first
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doctor again she's the one who's going
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to be actually helping me make it happen
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and I just need to check with her that
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22nd works for her as well as long as it
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does then 22nd will be the date
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yeah so you and I um know each other
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through uh through through running we we
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don't know each other particularly well
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though um but we were in Boston in April
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last year for um the marathon and I had
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no idea you were sick um you ran last
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year a yes yeah I did so I um so I had
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cancer five years ago and went through
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treatment and pretty much you know I
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never felt it was completely over but
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I'd got back to running marathons again
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I did 100 col my first first 100 km was
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after I'd been through cancer treatment
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and then I did another 100 km race in in
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Australia the ultr trail
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Australia and I wanted to do the the six
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Marathon Majors I'd got four of them out
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the way and I was entered to do Tokyo in
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Jan in February last year or March last
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year and Boston in April last year and
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those I those had been entered like for
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a year and I started to get ill in the
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October of
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22 and I kept being told it was migraine
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and I thought well that's not going to
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stop me running a marathon so I carried
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on with all the plans to travel to those
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two I actually got diagnosed with the
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cancer coming back in the middle of
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February last year so I knew it was back
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when I did Tokyo so I ran Tokyo Marathon
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at that time I had two tumors in my
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spine and we thought that that was going
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to be the extent of it but then just
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before I flew to Tokyo we found out I
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also had tumors in my lungs and in my
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chest wall and that it was wider spread
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than we thought so I was going to need
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to go through chemotherapy again so I
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ran Tokyo and then I flew to the UK to
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see my family and we had a little
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holiday in Italy to go Chan to go and
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see so you know these beautiful Terraces
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for Five Nights with my family and then
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I flew to Boston and I ran the Boston
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Marathon and I pretty much knew it was
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going to be my last marathon I knew it
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was going to get me my sixth majes I
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didn't know if I could finish the race
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cuz I had a lumber puncture just before
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I flew and that was really painful
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flying and I didn't know we knew it was
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spreading quickly I didn't know whether
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I'd be able to just you know actually do
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the run but I did and finish the
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marathon and that was it was a wonderful
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Marathon it was really lovely doing it
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with people who are special to me and
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yeah and and I remember running down the
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finishing shoot crying thinking this is
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the last time I'm ever going to do this
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but but it was okay what I want to
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finish on and then really bizarre so I
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worked 10 years for ABA Laboratories who
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sponsor the World Marathon Majors I
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worked for them in Germany for 10 years
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and the people giving the six-star
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medals were all Abbott employees and the
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woman who gave me the medal she said
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something I said oh you are you German
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and and she was German we'd work
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together in Germany when I worked in
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Germany how bizarre is that so she gave
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me my medal and I'd worked with her her
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in Germany in the German Abbot offices
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crazy crazy it is
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hey just get that microphone a little
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bit closer to your face um yeah um for
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anyone that doesn't know what you're
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talking about with the um the World
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Marathon Maes it's a series there's six
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of them right so there's um New York
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London Boston Chicago Berlin and Tokyo
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and um I'm a six star finisher once
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you've done all six of them you get this
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big giant metal which is an ugly piece
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of silverware but it's very very
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expensive it's big it's big it's
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impressive yeah so um yeah you and you
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and I are in a group of maybe 400 new
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zealanders I don't know they have got
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meal it's cool yeah it was an exciting
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achievement and and it was so it was I I
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got back from doing the marathon on the
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Friday I I remember landing at 6:00 a.m.
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and at 10:00 a.m. I was in the scanner
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having a CT scan and then on the Monday
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the chemo started so it was straight
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into it wow and you're um yeah you
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you're you're a tough [ __ ] as well yeah
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yeah you you you told me you told me
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yesterday um we'll unpack the whole
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Tracy Heckman story but you told me
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yesterday that um your pain level at the
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best is a constant 4 out of 10 um and
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for so for you to say 4 out of 10 uh for
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a normal person that would be
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excruciating because um you're uh with
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the running stuff you've done and it's a
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it's a remarkable Journey especially
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since you're quite a late started you
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started sort of midle I was 42 42 when I
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did my first marathon so I I think it's
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just worth mentioning this because your
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your ability to cope with pain and even
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put yourself in the pain cave is um
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incredibly high it's a high bar um okay
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so F first of all um May 22nd 2024 if
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everything goes exactly the way you hope
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how will that day look um it will it
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will hopefully have some chocolate for
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breakfast cuz I'm a real chocol holic
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and I'm not going to miss out on that
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and then we're going to go to a beach
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with the people I really love with my my
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sister and a husband my
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niece my partner and a few close friends
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and when listen to The Waves see the sea
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and I will die and I just feel such a
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huge relief that I'm going to be able to
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do it in that way it's it's going to be
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that a very gentle way to die it's the
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minimum amount of
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pain that I that I could have you know
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in order to achieve that somewhere
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beautiful hopefully I'm online going to
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have a few close friends and family as
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well people I'm originally English
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there are people in the UK who aren't
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able to come and make the trip but I'm
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hoping to have them online
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and I feel I've been given this massive
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gift I feel privileged in the last few
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months I've said goodbye to so many
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people how many people get a chance to
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do that when they pass away and so yeah
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just feeling feeling very fortunate to
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be in the position of n in and that in
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New Zealand we have the ability to do
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this it's been very interesting the last
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week to find out some people don't even
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realize that it is legal here and I know
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it's up for review at the end of the
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year and I'm very much hoping it gets
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gets renewed but um yeah it's it's a
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really really
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privileged um what um what what what
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attracted um you to exiting on your own
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terms you're control freak an absolute
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control freak and the the side effects
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from the treatment have been horrendous
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you know particularly in the last year
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I'm I'm not the person I was and I I
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don't want to just I with with further
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medication and treatment I could
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probably be around for a while longer
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but I don't just want to exist I just
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don't just want to live and I don't want
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to have to deal with the pain and the
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incontinence and not being able to
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travel and all the other stuff that goes
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with it I've lived a very full life I'm
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very fortunate with what I've been able
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to do and that's the term I only want to
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live that sort of life and if I can't do
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that I want out and I I spent time
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looking at how I could do it I don't
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want to commit suicide cuz I don't want
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to do it in a way that would have an
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impact on other people you know if if
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someone commits suicide it's awful for
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the people around them and yeah just
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just not a road I want to go down
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another way to do it would be to
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voluntarily stop eating and drinking and
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that's not something I want to do I
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think when people naturally come towards
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the end of their life with
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cancer they they'll lose their appetite
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but it's not a comfortable way to go
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it's not a quick way to go and it's not
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a way that I want my family to see me go
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so this way feels like a gentle way and
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a way that none of us want want it to
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happen but I
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think with everyone is supportive of me
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being able to make the
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choice and everybody realizes that it's
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the right thing for me and over the last
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two or 3 weeks since since I've sort of
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been making the decision I feel so so
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much better I just feel really
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comfortable that this is the right
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choice for me and everybody who knows me
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who's aware of it has also said yep they
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can see the change in me they can see
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that I've just reached a level of peace
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it's a lot to take in it is Sor I'm and
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I'm really comfortable with it I've
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talked about it a lot so I can talk
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about it without being in floods of
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Tears I'm sorry sorry have if you need a
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hug
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show um but yeah I I came around to your
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place yesterday we caught up yesterday
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and you told me the date um and I found
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that quite um I don't know conf
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confrontational I guess and I start I'm
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hoping now it is going to be that date
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yeah and I've got a problem if it isn't
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because see feels like half my family
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have got birthdays in May and so I can't
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I can't do it on someone's birthday so
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I've had to make a list to work out what
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the dates I can't do it there's not that
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many left so all right okay um we'll
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we'll go back um further and then we'll
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we'll do a full circle and we'll cover
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the stuff but first of all who is Tracy
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Hickman yeah who am I I'm sitting
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opposite you
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I'm 57 years old originally from the UK
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lived in New Zealand for 20 years is
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um do you want me to talk about my
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childhood a little bit just a it was a
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really [ __ ] [ __ ] childhood no I think I
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think that's interesting in particular
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um like the the trace that I know it's
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you you know you're a tough bugger
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you're very stubborn um I know this by
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some of the running events you've done
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which which are just wild and we'll get
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into that and you've and you were a late
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stter to the sport so reflecting on your
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early years like where do you think that
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comes from I think I think because it it
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was rough my my father was a gambler he
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was a lovely man but he was very weak
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and he was a gambler and my mother had
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some awful mental health issues she was
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not a lovely woman um she used to leave
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every few months and she yeah it was
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just it was a really rough childhood and
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it culminated in when I was a
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teenager my dad had left so I was just
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living with my mom and one day I got
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home to an empty house there was my
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bedroom was intact and there was one of
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everything in the kitchen but she had
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taken everything else even the light
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bulbs completely empty she'd moved out
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and here I was just suddenly by myself
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so I had to I started flatting I found
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somewhere to live I got myself a job and
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gave up any hope of going to University
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at that stage and just got a job and
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worked and and got over it got on with
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my life but I think all of that has
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given me strength to know I can get
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through anything I can survive anything
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and over the years I was was very lucky
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I I got into an accounting career um and
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that ended up being quite a nice
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lucrative career so that gave me the
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freedom to do lots of
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things I've worked with some wonderful
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people I'm still in touch with people I
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worked with in my first job nearly 40
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years ago yeah that was at hbro right
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yes yeah toy company and it was 1985
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which is when Transformers and My Little
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Pony were released yeah it was the hey
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day of Hasbro incredible incredible so
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you so you um you were uneducated but
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you got job and got this job I was C
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assistant Rose through the ranks but you
00:14:03
were sort of out of your depth oh I was
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way out of my depth but we all were none
00:14:06
of us really knew knew what we're doing
00:14:08
because we suddenly you know this tiny
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little company I I can't remember what
00:14:11
the turnover was in the first year but
00:14:13
it sort of was 10 10 15 times in in a
00:14:16
year and um yeah and and that set me off
00:14:19
on my career path so that was incredible
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and then I moved to work for Abba
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Laboratories the big um multinational um
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Healthcare company and and I worked for
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them in the UK and my mother was German
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so I could speak German and our um
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Finance director went to work in Germany
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so a little while after we'd been there
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I got a call saying hey do you want to
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come and work over here and that got me
00:14:41
that moved me to Germany and I had a
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wonderful 10 years working over there
00:14:47
and really enjoyed living there but
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while I was working for him I had the
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opportunity to apply for some jobs and I
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didn't get them because I didn't have
00:14:55
the
00:14:56
qualifications and so that set me off on
00:14:58
a path I I moved to Cardiff and went to
00:15:00
Cardiff University in Wales got myself a
00:15:02
degree and then I got my accounting
00:15:05
qualification and that set me up then
00:15:08
for a proper career in accounting so
00:15:11
yeah I was 27 when I went to UNI went as
00:15:13
a mature student but I lived with a
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whole load of 18yar olds they used to
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call me auntie Tracy and and had a great
00:15:20
time with them I I sort of rediscovered
00:15:22
I think that that those teenage years
00:15:24
that I'd missed out on because I was
00:15:26
busy just trying to survive I had that
00:15:28
one was 27 getting drunk at the pub and
00:15:31
getting doc Martins and you know all
00:15:33
that sort of stuff that yeah that was
00:15:36
fun um and then I met my husband and we
00:15:40
got married and we moved to New Zealand
00:15:41
yeah in Vago in Vago yeah know why you
00:15:44
love doing tough things you know people
00:15:46
people dism I think a lot of the people
00:15:49
who say nasty things about it haven't
00:15:50
actually been there it's not that bad a
00:15:52
place and it was it was a good place to
00:15:55
start life in New Zealand I had a I had
00:15:56
a good job it was I'd I'd taken a step
00:16:00
back and had an easier job because I I
00:16:03
didn't want it to be all about work I
00:16:04
wanted to enjoy life um we were lucky we
00:16:07
sold a house in the UK and bought a
00:16:08
house without a mortgage so that gave a
00:16:10
certain amount of freedom to be able to
00:16:12
take a step down and I learned to
00:16:15
snowboard we did kaying just had a lot
00:16:18
of outdoor life really enjoyable time
00:16:20
but my husband and I we had we had a
00:16:23
lovely marriage but I don't think it was
00:16:26
ever meant to be for the whole of of our
00:16:29
lives and I fell out of love with
00:16:33
him and I ended up making the decision
00:16:36
that I was going to move to ockland and
00:16:37
do contract work in ockland and then
00:16:39
keep going back to inago and see him so
00:16:42
didn't have any intention of of leaving
00:16:44
him of the marriage being over then when
00:16:46
I moved to ockland I joined get running
00:16:50
which was a a running club and met all
00:16:53
these wonderful Runners and started
00:16:55
training for my first marathon which was
00:16:57
Oakland marathon in
00:16:59
2008 and the marathon so you were how
00:17:01
old then I2 42 and the day after the
00:17:06
marathon my mother died and I hadn't had
00:17:08
any contact with her for a few years
00:17:10
just before I moved to New Zealand I
00:17:13
reached out and I met her in London we
00:17:16
went to lunch I bought her some things
00:17:19
and we said goodbye and I thought that
00:17:20
that would be the goodbye I wasn't sure
00:17:23
but when she died it it had much more of
00:17:25
an impact than I thought it would really
00:17:28
I was I I can remember reading I read an
00:17:31
email telling me that she' done my
00:17:33
sister had emailed
00:17:34
me with retrospective phone call would
00:17:37
have been better but it was just it's
00:17:38
just the way it worked out of the time
00:17:39
she sent me an email and I was in the
00:17:42
office and I read this email and I
00:17:43
howled like an animal would how and I
00:17:46
cried and it took me years to get over
00:17:49
it I think probably because of because
00:17:51
of what I didn't have you know I there
00:17:54
was no bitterness but I was just really
00:17:57
sad for the fact that I hadn't had a
00:17:59
good relationship with her but it made
00:18:00
me realize that I didn't want to muck
00:18:04
around with the rest of my life in a
00:18:06
relationship that I wasn't happy in and
00:18:07
doing things I didn't want to do so
00:18:10
split up with my husband and you guys
00:18:13
you guys didn't have any kids a no no
00:18:15
kids no no so it was easy easy was that
00:18:18
was that a choice or it just didn't work
00:18:19
out that way choice choice I just I I
00:18:23
didn't think I'd be a very good mother
00:18:25
and the you know there was always that
00:18:27
danger I could have ended up like my mom
00:18:29
and that would have been awful for kids
00:18:30
and my brothers and brother and sisters
00:18:33
had kids so I sort of treated them as my
00:18:36
kids and really fortunate to have great
00:18:39
relationships with my nieces and nephews
00:18:41
so yeah um and and then also made the
00:18:45
decision I was on this wonderful
00:18:47
Marathon high after having done my first
00:18:49
marathon you did all right too by the
00:18:50
way like 420 or something I know 4 420
00:18:54
that was pretty good and I was do you
00:18:56
know the actual time my mother died I
00:18:58
was sitting in a tattoo artist chair
00:19:01
getting a tattoo of a rubber duck to
00:19:03
commemorate the marathon so I thought it
00:19:05
was only going to be my one ever
00:19:06
marathon and that one in 2008 Adidas had
00:19:09
these rubber ducks all over Oakland yeah
00:19:12
that was the campaign that year yeah
00:19:13
they had this massive massive big
00:19:15
plastic rubber duck in in Victoria Park
00:19:18
and these post every and saying look be
00:19:19
a rubber duck you can't can't Dent them
00:19:22
they won't sink so I used to run along
00:19:24
and I used say I am a little rubber duck
00:19:26
I am a little rubber even now times get
00:19:29
hard like if I'm in the chemo chair I'd
00:19:30
be saying to I'm a rubber duck I can get
00:19:32
through this I've got this little tattoo
00:19:33
of rubber duck so um so yeah I was in
00:19:36
the chair when she actually died so that
00:19:38
so when I found out I thought I'm not
00:19:40
going to let this Define me I need to do
00:19:42
another marathon and I need to keep that
00:19:43
high so I just I split up for my husband
00:19:47
and I carried on marathon training and
00:19:49
and with all the lovely friends that I'd
00:19:51
made kept in touch and they're all still
00:19:52
friends now so it's the running just
00:19:56
changed my life it gave me this huge
00:19:58
Network of friends traveling all over
00:20:01
the world and it gave me confidence in
00:20:04
my career I don't think I would have
00:20:06
been a director of the company I ended
00:20:08
up working for if I hadn't done all the
00:20:11
marathons and if that hadn't given me
00:20:12
the confidence and it gave me something
00:20:14
to talk about when you go to network
00:20:16
events you know you go to an event with
00:20:18
a room full of accountants and lawyers
00:20:19
and bankers it's not the most exciting
00:20:22
area to be in and and I could talk about
00:20:24
climbing kilamanjaro and and running a
00:20:27
marathon there and running marathons in
00:20:29
New York and all this sort of things
00:20:31
well it got to the stage where whenever
00:20:33
I saw people client potential clients or
00:20:36
Bankers the first thing they'd say would
00:20:37
be where have you just been and where
00:20:38
are you off to next and yeah it's good
00:20:42
and it was so it was around this time
00:20:43
you met Paul who's um sitting in the
00:20:45
other room at the moment um you bought
00:20:46
him along as a support person in case
00:20:48
you in case I have a seizure because is
00:20:51
that a real chance yeah yeah I had a
00:20:53
seizure um about a month ago that lasted
00:20:55
40 minutes and it was horrendous and
00:20:59
I could so the the doctor who I saw a
00:21:01
couple of weeks ago said look you know I
00:21:02
could lose Consciousness at any time and
00:21:06
I've got a broken sternum at the moment
00:21:08
from the from the cancer like my theory
00:21:11
my spine could break my my neck could
00:21:13
break so or I could have a seizure and
00:21:15
if I have a seizure there's this
00:21:17
medication which would just help me to
00:21:19
get out of it really quickly cuz 40
00:21:21
minutes was a long time to be my I was
00:21:23
with my sister and a husband and they
00:21:25
thought I was dying it was it was really
00:21:26
awful um so yeah so I met Paul in 2009
00:21:32
and just the minute we saw each other we
00:21:35
I met him through on online dating I um
00:21:39
we we had this date we met at the nor
00:21:41
you know the northern steamship I don't
00:21:42
think it's called that anymore yeah down
00:21:44
BR that one yeah that's the one and I
00:21:46
remember walking up towards it and he
00:21:47
was standing outside and thinking oh he
00:21:49
looks quite nice and he thought the same
00:21:51
of me and we went for a drink that night
00:21:53
and he said to me people meet for a
00:21:56
reason a season or a lifetime and I
00:21:58
thought I hope it's a lifetime I thought
00:21:59
where did that come from I just wanted
00:22:01
to bit casual fun and sudden here I
00:22:02
aming a lifetime and we've been together
00:22:05
ever since and it's it's just been the
00:22:07
most wonderful relationship is yeah in
00:22:11
when covid hit and we're suddenly
00:22:12
together 24 hours a day there's not many
00:22:15
people that I want to be with for 24
00:22:17
hours and that I could coope with for 24
00:22:18
hours and we could we could so yeah oh
00:22:23
that's nice that's really nice did you
00:22:25
did you guys consider getting married at
00:22:26
all did you discuss it or done that got
00:22:29
the T-shirt when so the marathon I did
00:22:32
after ockland was Paris marathon in 2010
00:22:35
and he came with to Paris and I said to
00:22:37
him please if you get any ideas do not
00:22:40
propose to
00:22:41
me the one thing I need you to do is if
00:22:44
you love me never put a ring on it cuz I
00:22:47
I'd been there I'd had I'd done I'd had
00:22:49
marriage thing and it hadn't worked out
00:22:51
I felt no need to this decoration of
00:22:53
love in front of all our friends and
00:22:55
family because everyone who knows me
00:22:57
knows how in love we are and and yeah
00:22:59
we're just we're just really happy
00:23:01
without it we don't need it and I even
00:23:02
you know even now I think oh God should
00:23:04
I try and quickly do it before I die but
00:23:07
no no I don't need to how's he going to
00:23:09
be oh yeah you know I think he's he's
00:23:13
he's he's going to be upset but we've
00:23:14
got a really good support network and
00:23:18
he's seen what I've been through over
00:23:20
the last year the amount of pain that I
00:23:22
go through every day and all the all all
00:23:25
the ways my life has changed you know
00:23:27
it's it's like it's the pain it's the
00:23:29
travel it's the incontinence it's the
00:23:32
not being able to work it's I'm just not
00:23:35
me anymore and so he is completely
00:23:39
supportive in the decision that I'm
00:23:41
making and yeah it's it's it's going to
00:23:44
be hard it's going to be hard for a
00:23:46
while I've said to him I really want him
00:23:48
to meet someone else I want I don't know
00:23:49
if he'll get what we've got again be
00:23:51
lovely if he did I really want him to
00:23:53
meet someone else but he's got to wait
00:23:55
at least two weeks two weeks
00:24:05
see you say you're not you anymore and I
00:24:07
know like from a physical perspective I
00:24:09
I know you're not and I know that must
00:24:11
be incredibly frustrating like um you
00:24:13
you've got like a a walker thing at the
00:24:14
moment I know I've had that for a week
00:24:16
well that one we just got this morning
00:24:18
um but three weeks ago we did a walk
00:24:22
around Grayland Park and it was about 3
00:24:24
and a half K and he couldn't keep up
00:24:26
with me and then
00:24:29
two weeks ago over the weekend I had a
00:24:31
couple of Falls and so we got a walking
00:24:33
stick but then I found the walking stick
00:24:35
that I wasn't really well balanced on it
00:24:37
so then a friend of ours had a walker
00:24:38
home she said well look let's try this
00:24:40
and I realized [ __ ] I do need a walker
00:24:43
now and then today the walk has turned
00:24:45
up that's foldable so we can take it
00:24:46
everywhere but the the rate of change is
00:24:50
crazy yeah but personality wise though
00:24:53
you're the you're you're the same person
00:24:55
you've got through this whole thing with
00:24:56
a smile on your face oh I have and I'm
00:24:58
really pleased that I've managed to keep
00:25:00
my mental ability cuz I didn't know
00:25:03
there's over 30 tumors in my head and I
00:25:07
would currently currently and you think
00:25:09
that they'd be pressing against things
00:25:11
and maybe maybe changing how I feel I
00:25:13
think I'm probably a bit snappier
00:25:16
sometimes than I would be and not not
00:25:18
quite as patient and I've been a bit
00:25:20
tearful but for the most part I'm I'm
00:25:24
still me and I'm able to be eloquent
00:25:28
enough to get my opinions across and
00:25:32
yeah so I'm surprised that I've managed
00:25:34
to keep it this long and hopefully I've
00:25:37
the the date choosing the date was
00:25:39
really difficult because your
00:25:41
inclination is to make it as far out as
00:25:43
possible so you've got as long as
00:25:45
possible with the people you love but it
00:25:47
needs to be far enough away that I've
00:25:50
got enough time still to do things I
00:25:52
want to do and like we're heading to
00:25:53
Queenstown this weekend and we're going
00:25:54
to Rotorua Marathon next weekend to
00:25:57
support our running friends doing this
00:25:58
marathon and things like that so I think
00:26:01
the time I've got left is going to be
00:26:02
enough time to be able to do what I
00:26:05
really want to do but it needs to be
00:26:08
close enough that if my neck suddenly
00:26:11
breaks or if I suddenly lose the chance
00:26:13
to be eloquent about things I can still
00:26:16
do this because I have to show that I've
00:26:19
got the mental capacity to be able to
00:26:21
make that decision I mean nobody's
00:26:22
putting any pressure on me that's that's
00:26:24
a that's an easy one to comply with but
00:26:28
the doctor has to ask me do I still want
00:26:30
to go ahead with the decision and I have
00:26:32
to when I say yes I do she has to
00:26:35
believe that I've got the mental
00:26:36
capacity to be able to this is at the
00:26:38
time of at the time of right right so so
00:26:42
that's why I need to still be able to be
00:26:44
me and be normal at the time time of so
00:26:48
if you feel if you're feeling set like
00:26:50
you are now on May 21 you'll push it out
00:26:52
or postpone it no no I don't want I
00:26:56
don't want the risk I could do if I
00:26:58
wanted to the way I'm feeling right now
00:27:01
is probably not because I don't want to
00:27:04
risk not being able to do it then my my
00:27:07
feel is that by the 22nd of May I will
00:27:10
have done all the things that I want to
00:27:12
do and I'll be ready to go and I may be
00:27:17
in a position that I could hang around
00:27:19
for a little bit longer but what if I
00:27:21
made the decision to hang around for
00:27:22
another week and then suddenly my neck
00:27:25
broke or something and I no longer had
00:27:27
the mental capacity to be able to say
00:27:30
yes I want to go ahead with that and
00:27:32
then I'm faced with having to go in a
00:27:34
normal way and it could still be really
00:27:35
quick but I just I don't want to risk
00:27:38
that you what have um and that's my so
00:27:42
I'm having another talk to the doctor
00:27:43
this afternoon just to make sure that my
00:27:45
understanding of that is absolutely
00:27:46
right but I I'm pretty sure I've got it
00:27:49
right what what have um what have um
00:27:52
oncologists or the experts said in terms
00:27:54
of in terms of you know like time frame
00:27:57
and things um so the the first onc my
00:28:00
oncologist who I've worked with over
00:28:02
five years she had said that she didn't
00:28:04
think I would survive past 3 months so
00:28:07
when we found that out about 3 weeks ago
00:28:10
and I was thinking I was I was locked
00:28:12
into that three months thinking I had
00:28:14
three months to do stuff and then the
00:28:16
doctor saw I saw a couple of weeks ago
00:28:18
she's had lots of experience of working
00:28:20
with people in my situation and she said
00:28:22
she thought sort of one to two months
00:28:24
and probably focusing on that one month
00:28:26
and that made me realize if I want to do
00:28:28
stuff I just need to get on to it
00:28:30
straight away so so yeah that's probably
00:28:33
where I've been thinking about the the
00:28:34
one month and and you know I know if I
00:28:37
Chang my mind if I want to push it out
00:28:39
more I could and I could also just stop
00:28:41
at any time so if I decide actually no
00:28:43
this isn't the right way for me I could
00:28:45
just stop there's yeah lots of Freedom
00:28:49
there it's nice for you to have some of
00:28:50
the control back yes yeah that's the
00:28:52
main thing okay um let's um focus on
00:28:55
your running for a little bit so yeah
00:28:56
first marathon at 4 too that's about the
00:28:59
same time you met Paul and you made him
00:29:01
you made you made him run New York I
00:29:03
heard you sort of bullied him around New
00:29:05
York no what well he was a lot slower
00:29:08
than you he was a lot slower than me and
00:29:10
I did what happened was when we we met
00:29:14
so we met in
00:29:16
2009 and he was a swimmer and a cyclist
00:29:20
and a tennis player and I was a runner I
00:29:24
couldn't swim and I couldn't ride a bike
00:29:26
a lot of British people can't swim it's
00:29:27
not particular usual or ride a bike but
00:29:30
when I S I didn't even want to get in
00:29:31
the water and a few of my friends over
00:29:34
the years have tried to teach me to ride
00:29:36
a bike and they'd got me sort of on it
00:29:38
in a straight line for a little bit but
00:29:40
I'd never I never I didn't like doing it
00:29:42
so I never practiced and fall intens of
00:29:44
purposes I could not ride a bike so we
00:29:46
had a deal I said if you run a half
00:29:47
marathon I will learn to swim and ride a
00:29:49
bike and the bugger went and did Oakland
00:29:51
half marathon so I then didn't have a
00:29:53
lot of choice so then ockland Council
00:29:56
put this thing on for adults to learn to
00:29:57
ride a bike so I learned to ride a bike
00:29:59
and then I went to tepid baths and
00:30:01
learned to swim and I did something
00:30:03
called the tri orryy in takapuna it was
00:30:06
like a um 300 M swim N 9 or 10 km bike
00:30:11
ride and then a 3 km run like a nice
00:30:14
entry level event I came last it first
00:30:17
did last it was it was so yeah but hey
00:30:20
somebody's got to come last and I didn't
00:30:22
think I was cuz there was someone behind
00:30:24
me and I thought yay them last and then
00:30:26
she was disqualified cuz she didn't do
00:30:28
the whole of the run but but you know
00:30:30
that's all right so but so he did a half
00:30:32
marathon and then I we both entered for
00:30:35
the um Poll for the the no what's it
00:30:38
called not pole you know where you enter
00:30:40
for the Oakland for the New York
00:30:41
Marathon the B through yeah for the
00:30:43
ballot yeah we entered the ballot for
00:30:45
the New York Marathon and we got in it's
00:30:48
just like incredible so we went to New
00:30:49
York and he ran his first marathon there
00:30:52
and I I ended up doing 49 km cuz it was
00:30:55
really cold and he he hurt himself after
00:30:59
about 17K so he was walking so I was
00:31:03
literally running backwards and forwards
00:31:04
and skipping and going side to side just
00:31:07
trying to keep myself War Anno I was
00:31:09
pretending to be a bit of pizza I was
00:31:12
there's one
00:31:13
photo what do you mean oh he was
00:31:15
desperate for pizza and he thought that
00:31:17
would help him through so I was like
00:31:18
just pretend I'm Pizza come on come on
00:31:19
you can do this you can do this and then
00:31:21
at the end of the race I got back to the
00:31:23
hotel room and I went and got I got him
00:31:24
ice I got him Peach so I was back and
00:31:26
forwards everywhere bring him all this
00:31:27
stuff but but he did ever so well he did
00:31:29
it and and then that set him off on a
00:31:31
running career and you know he's just as
00:31:34
much a runner as he's done think six
00:31:36
marathons and he's done um 100 kilometer
00:31:39
race so yeah he's a great Runner oh good
00:31:42
team eh yeah yeah and some of the
00:31:45
running stuff so we mentioned at the
00:31:46
beginning the World Marathon majes which
00:31:48
you've got a six-star finishing medal
00:31:50
for and there's something quite nice
00:31:52
about that like um when you go to any
00:31:55
one of those events they have like a an
00:31:56
honors board and your name's going to be
00:31:58
on that wall forever yeah which is which
00:32:00
is pretty cool I think and at the moment
00:32:02
so I've got I've got a friend who did
00:32:04
Tokyo Marathon um Lisa did Tokyo
00:32:06
marathon and she sent me the picture of
00:32:09
my name on the board which was really
00:32:10
cool and I've got another friend who's
00:32:12
just done London marathon and she sent
00:32:14
me the picture of my my name on the
00:32:15
board so I'm going to yeah it's kind of
00:32:18
nice and um yeah so the World Marathon
00:32:21
Majors the the number of people in that
00:32:23
group is fairly small but in even
00:32:24
smaller group is um people that have run
00:32:27
uh Marathon on all seven continents
00:32:29
which you have done were you the the
00:32:30
first second woman inand um third so Joe
00:32:33
was second so my my friend Joe she's um
00:32:36
she's an
00:32:38
opthalmologist and she's a runner and we
00:32:41
met in 2009 I think we started running
00:32:44
together and we were we found we were
00:32:46
the same sort of pace we got on well and
00:32:49
so we we started running doing our
00:32:52
training together and then we were both
00:32:54
looking for more from running than just
00:32:58
entering a race I think we wanted
00:33:00
something that would have an you know be
00:33:01
a real goal I think she was the one who
00:33:04
found it that you had there was this
00:33:05
thing running a marathon on every
00:33:07
continent so we thought well we' we'd
00:33:09
done a couple already let's work towards
00:33:12
that and we entered for the Kilimanjaro
00:33:16
marathon and then we thought while we're
00:33:17
there we might as well climb Kilimanjaro
00:33:19
because it' be a bit rude not to and so
00:33:21
we did that yeah and um and we and we
00:33:25
ran a marathon together in Mongolia
00:33:28
and we did the Antarctica marathon and
00:33:31
she entered it first and then I and I'd
00:33:32
entered it for the year after but then
00:33:34
she changed and we we ran it together
00:33:36
and so when we did the Antarctica
00:33:38
Marathon that was our seventh continent
00:33:40
and she was faster than me so I I
00:33:42
maintained she was the second woman in
00:33:43
New Zealand to it and I was the
00:33:45
third wow but just doing it you know
00:33:50
um 99.9% of people will never go to
00:33:53
Antarctica let alone go there and run a
00:33:54
[ __ ] Marathon like it's cool eh
00:33:57
that's really
00:33:58
and um Marathon disabler as well which
00:34:00
is very Niche most people won't even
00:34:02
know what this is but this is like a
00:34:04
sand race like a a stage race tell us
00:34:07
about that it's Pete's fault so when we
00:34:09
Pete's fault take some responsibility
00:34:11
for your actions Trac no no no if you
00:34:14
when we did Kilimanjaro we stayed in
00:34:16
this little bed and breakfast that was
00:34:18
owned by a kiwi and maybe because she
00:34:20
was it was owned by AI there was another
00:34:22
guy there it was a kiwi guy from inago
00:34:24
called Pete and he told us he was was
00:34:27
going to celebrate his 60th birthday by
00:34:29
running the marathon to Sao i' never
00:34:31
even heard of it yeah but how small is
00:34:34
New Zealand talking to Pete we realized
00:34:36
his wife when I left in Vago his wife
00:34:38
had taken my job chances that wow so
00:34:42
anyway so we hadn't we didn't know each
00:34:44
other before this time so he was telling
00:34:47
us about this marathon of s and we
00:34:48
thought actually sounds quite
00:34:49
interesting it's it's 250 km in the
00:34:52
Sahara Desert and you have to your self
00:34:55
self sort of um I I think what the word
00:34:58
is but we had to carry all our carry
00:35:00
everything you eat we had everything we
00:35:02
eat our sleeping bags and um and then
00:35:05
they put you in a tent it's not a tent
00:35:07
it's it's a bit of blanket with some
00:35:09
wooden sticks that's your tent like a
00:35:10
kopy something yeah so you're allocated
00:35:12
to a tent by country so there were we
00:35:15
were four kiwis and two Aussies in our
00:35:19
tent I think um we we had two Elites in
00:35:21
our tent which was quite cool and so he
00:35:26
told us about it and we said oh yeah
00:35:27
we'll do that with you but that it was
00:35:29
like 2015 we met and it was 2018 he
00:35:32
wanted to do it with us ages away and
00:35:34
then in
00:35:36
2017 2016 he messaged us and he said
00:35:39
right it's open I'm entered and I
00:35:41
thought oh brother I'm I I'm not sure I
00:35:44
actually want to do it now and then Joe
00:35:46
entered and they were sending each other
00:35:47
messages saying is she entered yet and
00:35:49
was like oh no and I'm like I am here
00:35:50
you know and and now I don't think I'm
00:35:52
going to do it and then I was
00:35:55
interviewed for um the Antarctica
00:35:58
Marathon there was a stuff article
00:36:00
because I was doing it as a fundraiser
00:36:02
and they said what's next and I said oh
00:36:04
not sure I'm thinking about maybe doing
00:36:06
marathon deabler and when they sent me
00:36:08
the blur to read to proof check it
00:36:10
they'd written and her next race is
00:36:12
marathon disabler and I thought well I
00:36:13
can either call them and get them to
00:36:15
change that to she's maybe thinking
00:36:16
about it or I can just enter it so I
00:36:18
quickly entered it on the spot and sent
00:36:21
them back and said yeah it's all good
00:36:22
and I remember Paul reading it saying
00:36:24
what sayy you've actually entered and
00:36:26
I'm like oh yeah I might have done that
00:36:27
this afternoon so um so yeah so we we
00:36:31
trained together three of us trained
00:36:32
together how do you train for that um
00:36:35
I've got a client um I had a client Ed
00:36:39
is obviously not my client anymore and
00:36:40
he sold the business now he had a um Pie
00:36:43
Factory and they had this massive
00:36:45
freezer the industrial size freezer for
00:36:47
all the pies and so we put all our gear
00:36:49
on and we went in the freezer to run up
00:36:51
and down the shelves to make sure that
00:36:53
our gear that we could he took it down
00:36:55
to 20 minus 20° and got the um the fan
00:36:59
on so that we could make sure our gear
00:37:01
was cold oh off for the antartic one oh
00:37:03
that's the antartic one oh yeah wow oh
00:37:05
no I didn't didn't even think about that
00:37:06
wow oh yeah no and training for Marathon
00:37:09
disabler saers so we um we were training
00:37:12
in the summer we had we put um really
00:37:16
warm clothes on and we went to Beth's
00:37:20
Beach and to hanger and training on the
00:37:23
sand there we um we trained in saers I I
00:37:28
was at the tepid BS in their in their
00:37:29
steam room in their SAA with all my gear
00:37:31
on and my God they must have looked
00:37:33
ridiculous yeah it' be crazy and and
00:37:36
lots and lots of back to back so you've
00:37:38
got to do 250 km over a week and it's
00:37:41
it's a it's it's a stage race so you do
00:37:43
like 30k one day 35k the next the
00:37:46
longest day is 87 so I actually entered
00:37:49
the teroa 87 race so that I knew I could
00:37:52
do 87 because that was a big mental
00:37:54
thing for me um but a lot of our
00:37:56
training would be doing three or four
00:37:58
runs in a row you know three or four
00:38:01
days in a row or running morning and
00:38:02
evening to build up that stamina we had
00:38:05
um our feet needed to be really tough
00:38:07
because of the blisters so we bought
00:38:09
this stuff called tough foot that horses
00:38:11
that is used on horses and dogs to
00:38:13
toughen their feet so you you put this
00:38:15
stuff on your feet and it gives you this
00:38:17
really hard skin I like awesome you know
00:38:19
you could you could walk Barefoot on
00:38:21
gravel and not feel it um and and the
00:38:25
food cuz you had to have 2,000 calories
00:38:27
a day day and you had to make sure that
00:38:29
you know you could that the food was
00:38:31
going to be palatable so I remember one
00:38:33
night Joe and I both we' bought all
00:38:35
these different sorts of dehydrated
00:38:37
Foods we got Paul over and we had a
00:38:39
dinner party with all these foods and I
00:38:41
remember you you are you still ging radx
00:38:44
nutrition sponsor Ric I love we had some
00:38:46
radx food there it was I think it was
00:38:48
not long after they started and they had
00:38:50
this pee thing this like mushy peas it
00:38:53
was gross it was absolutely gross I
00:38:55
think that's the only one that none of
00:38:56
us could eat but some of the radic stuff
00:38:59
was delicious and there was some really
00:39:00
lovely French food as well so yeah we um
00:39:04
we worked out what food we could have we
00:39:05
had to do we had to get these um these
00:39:09
like suction thing in case we got bit by
00:39:11
Scorpions so that you could take the
00:39:12
bite out so sting sting things um yeah I
00:39:17
mean the training was there's lots of
00:39:20
books written about it there's
00:39:21
documentaries on it I had a coach James
00:39:24
cougler was my coach did a fantastic job
00:39:26
coaching me on it I didn't do everything
00:39:28
he told me to but he um we built a
00:39:30
relationship whereby you know he'd say I
00:39:33
really think you should do this and I'm
00:39:34
like I'm not doing that and it was like
00:39:36
okay maybe try this and we'd negotiate
00:39:38
and find a way through well and and you
00:39:41
got through it and I think all all of
00:39:42
these um running events paint a picture
00:39:44
of the sort of person you are like just
00:39:45
how how tough you are and how resilient
00:39:47
you are um yeah have the lessons that
00:39:51
you learned from doing these um
00:39:52
physically tough things helped you in
00:39:54
dealing with the pain and discomfort
00:39:56
that comes with absolutely cuz I you
00:39:58
know I know Marathon disabler was such a
00:40:01
tough thing to do and while I was doing
00:40:03
it I got ill while I was out there I got
00:40:05
an infection and so I had to deal with
00:40:07
that as well on top of everything else
00:40:09
and when I had to deal with cancer I
00:40:11
thought I can do this I you know I've
00:40:13
run in the desert I've done marathons
00:40:15
everywhere when I did the the race in
00:40:17
the marathon in Mongolia I got food
00:40:19
poisoning the night before I literally I
00:40:21
stopped throwing up at 10:00 and the
00:40:22
alarm went off at 2: to get up and run
00:40:24
this race it took me 10 and 1 half hours
00:40:26
to the mar Marathon I was just in such a
00:40:30
bad place but I did it and so all that
00:40:32
stuff shows you yeah you can all you got
00:40:34
to do is be strong enough to suck it up
00:40:36
pain is weakness leaving the body and
00:40:38
you know all those little mantras to
00:40:39
yourself and just and just do it so I
00:40:43
never had any doubt that I could get
00:40:45
through the treatment what I don't like
00:40:47
is is where I've ended up like I think
00:40:50
one of the biggest ones is not being
00:40:52
able to travel and it's so wrong there's
00:40:54
a problem in New Zealand if I lived in
00:40:56
AUST Australia or in the UK with stage 4
00:40:59
cancer I could get travel insurance Med
00:41:03
with Medical cover even with stage 4
00:41:05
cancer and if I had that I wouldn't be
00:41:07
here right now I'd be in Croatia or
00:41:10
Costa Rica or Chile or the stands all
00:41:13
these places that I still wanted to go
00:41:15
to but in New Zealand we cannot get
00:41:17
travel insurance for stage four cancer
00:41:19
patients you could up until covid hit
00:41:21
and then when covid hit the one company
00:41:23
that was doing it pulled out and that
00:41:25
that's wrong that's very wrong I
00:41:27
contacted the companies that do it in
00:41:29
Australia and and the UK I said look
00:41:33
I've got contacts in the insurance
00:41:34
industry here from my professional
00:41:37
career can I help you set up over here
00:41:40
there are people who want to do it could
00:41:41
be lucrative we're willing to pay a lot
00:41:42
of money for travel insurance but you
00:41:45
can't do that and that's that's one of
00:41:46
the toughest things not being able to
00:41:49
travel
00:41:51
yeah um you showed me something
00:41:54
yesterday which um I actually found this
00:41:57
quite quite upsetting as well even
00:41:58
though it's it's a beautiful thing and
00:42:00
it's um just an example of the I suppose
00:42:02
the profound impact that you've had on
00:42:04
the the running circles that you move in
00:42:07
um the blanket that was given to you as
00:42:09
a yeah that today how do you describe
00:42:12
that it's um so it's a quilt one of the
00:42:15
women in our running club does a
00:42:16
wonderful job of quilting Jennifer and
00:42:19
she made a quilt of everybody
00:42:22
contributed a t-shirt that was important
00:42:25
to them or a medal ribbon or a or a buff
00:42:28
some piece of material that was
00:42:30
important to them and she's put them all
00:42:32
together in a massive quilt with a
00:42:34
blanket on the back and then there's
00:42:36
actually a letter on the back that
00:42:37
they've all signed and they've said it's
00:42:39
from our running club for me to feel
00:42:41
that they're with me when times get
00:42:42
tough and for the last couple of weeks
00:42:45
pretty much every night I wake up at
00:42:47
about 2 3:00 in the morning and when I
00:42:49
wake up at that time I'm always in pain
00:42:51
and I have a little cry just to the
00:42:53
emotion just to let the emotion out and
00:42:55
get out of my system a bit and I take
00:42:57
morphine and the morphine makes me cold
00:43:00
so I put that blanket on me and I just
00:43:01
feel like everyone's hugging me it's so
00:43:04
special and so for the last year that
00:43:08
that blanket has been giving me Comfort
00:43:11
and the it's really it's beautiful is
00:43:14
it's absolutely beautiful and the
00:43:15
treatment over the last year has been
00:43:17
tough has been really tough but that
00:43:19
blanket has helped me through a lot of
00:43:20
it and my cat loves it as well so he
00:43:22
comes on it when we snuggle up together
00:43:24
and yeah it's pretty special so waking
00:43:27
up in the middle of the night and um
00:43:29
you're having a little a little cry is
00:43:31
is is it are you crying because
00:43:34
frustration because of the pain or just
00:43:36
like sadness because of your situation
00:43:37
or yeah the the partly the pain but then
00:43:40
when I take the pain relief 20 minutes
00:43:43
later you know I'm feeling okay again
00:43:45
mainly the frustration at just how has
00:43:47
my life changed this much like a year
00:43:49
ago I was running Boston Marathon and
00:43:52
now I'm making preparations to die and
00:43:55
and I hate that it's going to have such
00:43:58
an impact on all the people who love me
00:44:00
in the last few weeks I so I went to the
00:44:03
UK in March and in three and a half
00:44:04
weeks I said goodbye to over 54 people
00:44:07
all in really important people in my
00:44:09
life and again very privileged that I
00:44:12
had the opportunity to do that but
00:44:14
that's 54 people who I'm going to be
00:44:16
hurting because of what's going to
00:44:18
happen in a few weeks time and I'm going
00:44:20
through it here now there's a lot of
00:44:22
people here who I'm saying goodbye to
00:44:25
and some people I'm going to have the
00:44:26
chance to see again in the next few
00:44:28
weeks and some people when I see them
00:44:30
I'm like I'm sorry this is the last time
00:44:31
we're going to see each other so we have
00:44:33
a hug and when I wake up in the early
00:44:35
hours that's you know I think about who
00:44:37
I've said goodbye to that day or who I'm
00:44:39
going to be seeing the next day and and
00:44:41
the impact I'm having on them but one
00:44:42
good thing is because I'm originally
00:44:45
from the UK I've got a lot of family
00:44:46
friends and family over there so then I
00:44:49
get on the phone and I've got two nieces
00:44:51
Tracy and Kelly and they've been awesome
00:44:54
they at that time of day they've pretty
00:44:56
much just got home home brought their
00:44:57
kids home from school got themselves a
00:44:59
cup of tea we get on the phone and we
00:45:01
get giggling and within 10 minutes of
00:45:03
being on the phone they've got me
00:45:04
laughing telling me stories we're
00:45:07
reminiscing and and it all feels okay
00:45:09
again yeah I can get through it so um
00:45:13
March
00:45:14
2019
00:45:15
uh yeah you want us talk talk us through
00:45:18
that period so you go for a routine
00:45:19
mogram yeah you're not you're not
00:45:21
feeling unwell or anything it's just a
00:45:22
no the only thing I heard since so in
00:45:27
2018 so I ran Marathon to sablo in 2018
00:45:30
and then I trained for my first 100 km
00:45:33
race and as part of that training I did
00:45:35
quite a lot of strength training and I
00:45:37
had some pain in my chest and I thought
00:45:39
I'd pulled a muscle with all the
00:45:40
strength training so that's the only
00:45:42
that's the only thing and my routine
00:45:44
mamogram was due in about the October
00:45:47
that year but my sister was going
00:45:49
through getting diagnosed with
00:45:51
Parkinson's we didn't know at that time
00:45:52
that that's what it was but she um she
00:45:55
had lots of pain she was going through
00:45:56
Lots of CT scans and things so I was
00:45:59
really thinking about her and I thought
00:46:00
I just can't coope with another scan
00:46:02
result right now so I'm going to I'm
00:46:04
just going to put it off for a month or
00:46:05
two and then I kept getting reminders
00:46:08
saying You must come from the scan so I
00:46:09
went for my routine
00:46:11
scan and I went I did it privately so
00:46:16
went for the scan at 8:30 in the morning
00:46:18
2 hours later at 10:30 I'd come out and
00:46:20
I'd had a scan a second scan a biopsy an
00:46:25
ultrasound a and had a breast surgeon
00:46:27
talking to me about
00:46:29
myectomy in 2 hours I had nobody else
00:46:31
there I was there by myself and I was
00:46:35
just I was just Shell Shocked absolutely
00:46:37
Shell Shocked I walked out of there and
00:46:39
burst in tears and I drove it was near
00:46:41
Mount Eden I and I drove to the car park
00:46:43
at Mount Eden and I sat there in the car
00:46:45
and I thought oh my God how is this my
00:46:48
my sister had had breast cancer in 2015
00:46:50
I had a good friend who had it in 2013
00:46:53
another good friend who had it in 2017
00:46:55
so I had three people in my life had had
00:46:56
it I and I'd been their support I
00:46:59
thought how the hell am I going to tell
00:47:01
them how the hell am I going to tell
00:47:02
Paul how am I going to tell my sister I
00:47:05
just sat and thought this this can't be
00:47:07
happening and then I drove home and Paul
00:47:10
came home and and that was the start of
00:47:13
the where we're at now and I I remember
00:47:17
sending an email to my to our managing
00:47:19
partner at work and saying so I've I've
00:47:22
got breast cancer but I think I'm just
00:47:24
going to be able to have a little
00:47:25
operation I might be off for two wigs um
00:47:28
you know probably don't we probably
00:47:29
don't need to tell that many people and
00:47:32
I should still be able to keep working
00:47:33
in the background and then on the Monday
00:47:35
found out that I'd need chemotherapy and
00:47:37
it was actually going to be longer than
00:47:38
a couple of weeks and and yeah and it's
00:47:41
just been downhill from there what are
00:47:44
um do you think are the biggest lessons
00:47:46
or surprises um that you've learned
00:47:47
about yourself in in the face of this
00:47:50
unimaginable
00:47:54
adversity well I think I always knew
00:47:56
that I was tough I'm probably a bit
00:47:58
tougher than than I thought I was um
00:48:01
really yeah and I didn't realize how
00:48:07
many how many people I've got in my life
00:48:09
who love me it's at the last couple of
00:48:13
weeks we've all started voicing it and
00:48:15
telling each other how much we love each
00:48:18
other and even like you know people who
00:48:22
in a work in a professional environment
00:48:24
you don't you don't tell your colleagues
00:48:25
you love each other never but you know
00:48:28
had a young lad who who worked for me
00:48:29
for quite a few years and he was he was
00:48:32
my rightand person I I did well in my
00:48:34
job because of his help and we told each
00:48:36
other we loved each other and it's
00:48:39
really special it's actually voicing it
00:48:42
I just didn't realize how much of that
00:48:44
and I didn't realize what an impact I'd
00:48:46
made on other people's lives yeah one
00:48:49
thing I've noticed we've been talking
00:48:50
for 48 minutes now something that you've
00:48:51
mentioned a few times is um just almost
00:48:54
like the the guilt or the sadness you
00:48:56
feel about
00:48:57
how other people are going to feel once
00:48:59
you're gone um it's very
00:49:02
selfless yeah I I guess I mean I if I if
00:49:07
I could have started to over my career I
00:49:10
would have chosen to be a nurse or a
00:49:12
police woman or something like that
00:49:14
where I could have been helping people
00:49:17
cuz that's what I would have loved to do
00:49:20
I ended up in a career where I ended up
00:49:23
helping people anyway with you know
00:49:24
helping their businesses survive and
00:49:26
that sort of thing but I've always
00:49:29
wherever I've worked I've gravitated
00:49:32
towards mentoring The Young Ones my
00:49:34
clients and young ones at work often
00:49:36
call me auntie Tracy and just being
00:49:40
there for people maybe it's
00:49:42
because I didn't I didn't grow
00:49:45
up with a situation where I had a really
00:49:48
loving family I my sister has been
00:49:51
always been incredibly loving and looked
00:49:53
after me but I I missed out on having
00:49:58
family looking after me like in that way
00:50:01
so maybe that's why but but being able
00:50:03
to care for other people and love other
00:50:05
people is something really important to
00:50:07
me yeah you've um you've done so much um
00:50:10
bucketless stuff like some of those runs
00:50:12
with actually your bucket list for a lot
00:50:14
of people listening to this or watching
00:50:15
this would say like their nightmare um
00:50:17
but you've done so much stuff that's I
00:50:19
guess on your bucket list is there
00:50:20
anything that you really wanted to do
00:50:21
that you're not going to get the chance
00:50:22
to yeah the countries countries to go to
00:50:25
I would I would have love to go to
00:50:28
matchu pitu um and to Croatia I would
00:50:33
have if I if I hadn't been ill so Joe my
00:50:37
running friend has gone on she's done
00:50:39
the Mila at tarera wow Miler by the way
00:50:42
100 miles so it's like 160k and and when
00:50:45
she did the 100K she did it in 17 hours
00:50:48
and it took me 24 hours we used to run
00:50:50
together all the time if I hadn't had
00:50:52
cancer I would have probably been closer
00:50:54
to her in 17 hours so that's the the
00:50:56
impact that the cancer had on me and I
00:50:58
and I couldn't hope to a Miler I would
00:51:00
have loved to have done a Miler and I've
00:51:02
got a good friend Rachel who's going to
00:51:04
be doing the Miler next year and we were
00:51:07
we had dinner this week and we were both
00:51:10
crying about the fact that she's going
00:51:11
to have to do it by herself and I would
00:51:13
have done it with her and that that
00:51:15
hurts knowing that I can't help her
00:51:17
through that hopefully she's going to
00:51:19
feel that I'm with her you know but hey
00:51:22
um so yeah doing a Milo would have been
00:51:24
a really awesome thing
00:51:28
and seeing seeing just being part of
00:51:29
friends lives seeing them seeing them
00:51:32
achieve
00:51:33
things and yeah
00:51:36
like in a way yeah seeing the little
00:51:38
ones grow up you know got four-year-old
00:51:40
and 8-year-old great nieces and and
00:51:43
15-year-old and seven couple of 17 year
00:51:45
olds seeing
00:51:47
them meet
00:51:49
people have children get married make
00:51:52
success of their careers all of that
00:51:54
miss out on all of that yeah just life
00:51:57
moving on I guess and growing old with
00:51:59
Paul you know we had plans to grow old
00:52:01
together and I was said to him like if
00:52:04
we I wanted to I wanted to be with him
00:52:06
for 50 years and we were 42 when we met
00:52:08
so that was going to be a bit of a
00:52:09
stretch but I said when we were in our
00:52:11
early hundreds like5 six and we've had
00:52:14
enough we are going to go out with a
00:52:16
splash cuz I said I wanted to get in a
00:52:18
helicopter and I wanted to go over a
00:52:20
volcano and I was going to push him out
00:52:22
and then jump in after
00:52:24
him and he's always been so very extreme
00:52:27
murder suicide yeah yeah he's always
00:52:29
been a bit scared of that so this
00:52:31
weekend we're going we're going to
00:52:33
Queenstown he's never been in a
00:52:35
helicopter before we're going to
00:52:36
Queenstown and we're doing a helicopter
00:52:38
ride and um I think he's excited about
00:52:42
it now I don't think I think in a normal
00:52:44
situation I probably wouldn't have
00:52:45
gotten him in there because I think he's
00:52:46
always thought about my threat of the of
00:52:48
the volcano wouldn't that be a way to go
00:52:50
then oh my God very dramatic that's
00:52:52
although apparently we we had we caught
00:52:54
up we went to Sydney last weekend and we
00:52:56
caught up with some friends to say
00:52:57
goodbye over there and they said it's
00:52:59
physically not possible that I wouldn't
00:53:01
have been able to push him out of the
00:53:02
helicopter because of the the
00:53:04
aerodynamics of it or whatever so so my
00:53:06
plan wouldn't have worked anyway I don't
00:53:08
know I I don't know I feel like if there
00:53:09
was a way to do it you'd figure it out
00:53:11
um yeah are you still well enough to
00:53:13
enjoy these things in the last few weeks
00:53:14
like I mean Sydney we um we were really
00:53:18
lucky we went to Bondi and we spent the
00:53:20
day in Bondi it was the day before the
00:53:22
awful events of Bondi but we spent we
00:53:25
spent a whole day at this um Beach Club
00:53:28
I it's like a bit like an RSA oh ice BS
00:53:32
yeah that's it ice swimming pool yeah
00:53:34
not the not the flash bit the bit where
00:53:37
you can just go and have fishing chips
00:53:38
and stuff we spent we spent about four
00:53:39
or five hours there and it was lovely so
00:53:41
yeah enjoyed that and and in Queenstown
00:53:44
we're also we're going to go to nice
00:53:46
restaurant book some nice accommodation
00:53:48
going to enjoy the when we go to road to
00:53:50
R next weekend for the marathon we're
00:53:52
going to see our friends do the marathon
00:53:53
and we're all a big group of us are
00:53:55
going to go to that new Spa that's
00:53:56
opened up on the waterfront so I'm
00:53:58
hoping we're going to enjoy that so I
00:54:00
can go along and enjoy these things in
00:54:02
the background there's always a level of
00:54:04
pain and I also have to have to just
00:54:08
manage my energy levels I I still I
00:54:12
forget that life has changed and that I
00:54:14
can't do what I think I can do so a lot
00:54:18
of it is sort of Paul saying to me come
00:54:20
on I I think you need to take a lie down
00:54:22
or take a break yes is someone that's
00:54:25
been um and also the steroids oh my gosh
00:54:28
the steroids are having an impact on me
00:54:30
and are speeding me up no business we
00:54:32
were in the supermarket on Wednesday and
00:54:34
he was like can we stop I I just I need
00:54:37
you to slow
00:54:39
down I feel a bit guilty that I'm making
00:54:41
him do that God you're not even a coffee
00:54:44
drinker no so yeah steroids
00:54:48
um are you scared you have if she
00:54:52
is I'm I'm a little bit scared just
00:54:57
of of something going wrong of it of it
00:55:00
not being of the control freaking me not
00:55:02
being able to get it to go exactly as I
00:55:04
want it to go the actual death
00:55:07
itself I don't think I am anymore I
00:55:10
think I think I've reached a a place
00:55:13
where no I think I think if it if it's
00:55:17
as gentle as they say it's going to be
00:55:18
and you know it's two or three minutes
00:55:20
even if that is 2 or 3 minutes of pain
00:55:22
that's not long to have to deal with but
00:55:24
by all accounts that's not going to be a
00:55:26
really painful thing and and I'm just
00:55:30
going to be with all the people I really
00:55:31
love and know so no no I don't think I
00:55:34
am scared anymore I um I think I read
00:55:38
somewhere that the the last thing that
00:55:39
goes is in terms of your senses is your
00:55:41
hearing yeah so it's a bit ironic really
00:55:44
since the chemo destroyed my hearing all
00:55:46
right so I was you know what the chances
00:55:49
when I had my first dose of chemo I got
00:55:52
a a very large dose and it took away a
00:55:56
huge part of my hearing so I have
00:55:58
hearing aids now so there's something
00:56:00
like 46,000 people around the world had
00:56:03
had the same treatment of me 23 had lost
00:56:06
their hearing and I'm was number 24 so
00:56:09
CH that so yes I do have enough hearing
00:56:12
left that hopefully I will still be able
00:56:13
to but yeah the hearing is the last
00:56:15
thing so hopefully I'll still be able to
00:56:18
hear the SE and I'll be able to hear
00:56:19
whatever my family is saying and so so
00:56:22
you'll be on because I don't know it's
00:56:25
probably not something gave a lot of
00:56:26
thought to but I just assumed um people
00:56:28
that chose to die this way would be
00:56:31
maybe in a bed at home or in a hospice
00:56:33
or in a in a clinic or somewhere um but
00:56:37
you you can do it anywhere so you choose
00:56:38
your Beach yeah I don't know about
00:56:40
anywhere but I know um within so the
00:56:42
doctor mentioned that you could do it in
00:56:44
a garden or a park or a beach and I
00:56:46
straight away HED in on the beach and
00:56:48
thought that would be really because
00:56:51
Beach beaches are very meaningful to me
00:56:54
and I thought that would be a lovely
00:56:56
place place to be now I um I don't know
00:56:59
the E the exact you know whether I'm
00:57:02
going be sitting on a rug or on a chair
00:57:04
or how how we're going to make it work I
00:57:06
think we've chosen the beach we we're
00:57:08
really lucky we met one of my former
00:57:10
clients on Monday and they suggested a
00:57:14
beach that's very close to their home
00:57:15
where they got married and I my first
00:57:18
thought was like oh you can't do that I
00:57:19
don't want you to be looking at that
00:57:20
beach all the time and thinking that's
00:57:21
where I died and they said no you're
00:57:23
you're getting this wrong way we'd see
00:57:25
it as an honor if you if you did it
00:57:27
there so so I'm thinking I haven't
00:57:29
actually been there yet so we need to go
00:57:31
up and have a load but I'm thinking that
00:57:32
might be the place and yeah maybe
00:57:35
getting some nice chairs set up at
00:57:37
gazebo if it's raining and and just be
00:57:40
together holding I thinking maybe
00:57:41
holding hands yeah I haven't I haven't
00:57:44
put a lot of thought into how it's going
00:57:46
to work I wanted to have that
00:57:47
conversation with the doctor this
00:57:48
afternoon to make sure that the timing
00:57:51
and the location is going to work before
00:57:53
I invest too much energy into it I
00:57:55
didn't want to get all well not excited
00:57:58
excited is the wrong word to get you
00:57:59
know to get it all clear in my mind
00:58:01
about how it's going to be and then to
00:58:03
find that I can't do that I don't want
00:58:05
to die at home I don't we we live in a
00:58:08
lovely old Villa in gyin there's no plan
00:58:11
to sell it and I don't want Paul to have
00:58:14
those memories of me dying at home I
00:58:16
don't I don't think that would be a good
00:58:17
thing um so if it can't be there then it
00:58:20
would be in a hospice and there is a
00:58:23
hospice where you're allowed to do
00:58:25
assisted death so yeah so if I can't if
00:58:28
I can't do it anywhere else then that's
00:58:30
where it would be but hopefully we can
00:58:31
get the beach to work and music playing
00:58:34
or anything you have a a bluetoo speaker
00:58:36
I hadn't thought about that I mean yeah
00:58:38
could have a bit of the the checks ready
00:58:40
to die maybe oh my God is that wrong is
00:58:44
that
00:58:45
wrong hey you I would I wouldn't go with
00:58:49
Staying Alive because that would be a
00:58:50
bit too um I love Queens of the Stone
00:58:53
Age and there is a Queens of song saying
00:58:57
I'm going to leave I'm going to leave
00:58:58
you so yeah I have to put a bit thought
00:59:02
into that yeah yeah maybe no music
00:59:04
actually the more I'm talking to you the
00:59:05
maybe I'm thinking no music and it might
00:59:08
be quite nice he just um just the sound
00:59:10
of the Waves crashing and yeah yeah yeah
00:59:12
and um any regrets or anything you do
00:59:16
differently there's a couple of things
00:59:18
I've done in my life that I do
00:59:19
differently I probably don't want to go
00:59:21
into but just just thinking yeah I don't
00:59:24
you know I don't know if any of us go to
00:59:26
our whole life but for the most part
00:59:29
even for those things one of those I've
00:59:31
apologized and for the most part I think
00:59:36
I've been true to my
00:59:38
values and just trying to treat people
00:59:41
in a good way in the same way that I'd
00:59:43
want to be treated yeah
00:59:46
um I wish my relationship with my M had
00:59:49
been different and it's not a regret on
00:59:51
my side and I don't know if there's
00:59:53
anything I could have done to make it
00:59:54
different I think she I think Dad needed
00:59:57
to be stronger and she would have needed
01:00:00
some help with the mental health issues
01:00:03
and that maybe she could have
01:00:05
been and you know for one of a better
01:00:07
word normal mother and but then my whole
01:00:10
life could have been really different if
01:00:12
that had happened I might not be the
01:00:14
strong person that I am and I might have
01:00:17
just ended up living a really normal
01:00:19
boring ordinary life and as it is I've
01:00:22
lived such a full life I've had so many
01:00:24
adventures and I think I'm I'm grateful
01:00:28
for the fact that I've had those so and
01:00:30
even my marriage you know I the marriage
01:00:34
didn't work out but we're both really
01:00:36
happy now with new partners he's got a
01:00:38
couple of kids and we're still in touch
01:00:41
not on a regular basis but just you know
01:00:43
the OD once or twice a year in email he
01:00:45
knows um he doesn't know the full extent
01:00:48
you know that that I'm going to be dying
01:00:49
in a couple of weeks time but he knows
01:00:50
that it's come back yeah and and I think
01:00:54
yeah I could I can hold my head up high
01:00:56
when I when I look at how that that's
01:00:59
turned out that's cool um and you've
01:01:03
buried any hatchets that you feel you
01:01:05
need you needed to bury well I've I've
01:01:07
got a brother who's he's a half brother
01:01:10
so um we share the same mother but not
01:01:13
the same father and his wife passed away
01:01:17
in October and he reached out to me when
01:01:18
his wife passed away I think he probably
01:01:21
realized that he was going to be lonely
01:01:23
cuz she looked after him for nearly 30
01:01:26
years and I met up with him when I went
01:01:29
to the UK we only met up for about an
01:01:32
hour or so and it it felt like meeting a
01:01:35
stranger I he's a lot older than me and
01:01:37
I realized I don't really know him but
01:01:39
I'm glad I met with him because I could
01:01:42
walk away and think well look I did that
01:01:44
I met with him I realized that he's not
01:01:48
this person I've got heaps in common
01:01:50
with who I want wanted to spend lots of
01:01:51
time with I don't regret the fact that I
01:01:54
didn't spend lots of time with him over
01:01:55
the years is and and I said goodbye and
01:01:59
yeah I think there's probably the only
01:02:01
one I've got another
01:02:03
sister um so I always talk about my
01:02:05
sister my one sister we do have another
01:02:07
sister she also has those mental health
01:02:09
issues and we for self-preservation
01:02:13
we're not in touch with her yeah she's
01:02:15
done some really awful things and I have
01:02:18
no regrets about that at all and I and
01:02:20
I'm absolutely fine with the fact that
01:02:21
she's not in my life I think it's a
01:02:24
better life for it so so yeah yeah um
01:02:28
what about the afterlife do you do you
01:02:30
are you an atheist are you yeah I I I
01:02:32
don't believe in God um I don't know
01:02:35
what's going to happen I
01:02:37
increasingly I'm thinking maybe there'll
01:02:39
be a bit of spirit or something maybe
01:02:41
people will feel I'm with them um with
01:02:45
I've got one niece who she does a lot of
01:02:47
work in Antarctica I took her to
01:02:49
Antartica with me when I did the
01:02:50
marathon and she ended up she was a
01:02:52
zookeeper and she looked after gorillas
01:02:54
and she ended up changing careers so
01:02:56
that she's now an A guide in Antarctica
01:02:59
and she said often she'll she'll take
01:03:02
necklaces with her and her necklace will
01:03:04
move and or or she I can't remember the
01:03:07
exact story I think she read that like a
01:03:09
necklace can be moved by someone and so
01:03:11
we we have this deal that if she sees
01:03:14
her necklace moving it means I'm with
01:03:15
her and I've moved her necklace for her
01:03:18
so oh that's cool a little signs yeah
01:03:21
but um but for the most part no I don't
01:03:24
once G like a I think once you're gone
01:03:26
you're gone I mean a few I've got a few
01:03:28
friends who believe in
01:03:29
reincarnation and if that is a thing I
01:03:32
would love to come back as something
01:03:34
really caring like a Jessica perhaps a
01:03:37
Jessica yeah yeah be a Jessica be a
01:03:40
Jessica yeah
01:03:42
um what what are some things that you
01:03:44
thought were important but now you
01:03:46
realize they weren't oh stuff my god
01:03:48
I've spent the last year getting rid of
01:03:50
stuff shoes I had 104 pairs of shoes
01:03:53
That's not including boots or running
01:03:56
shoes that's just you know dress shoes
01:03:58
and the amount of stuff that I had I've
01:04:01
given it all to charity shops the
01:04:03
running gear I had I've given a lot of
01:04:05
that to my fellow Runners and that's
01:04:07
been a nice thing because they've said
01:04:08
that they're going to think about me
01:04:10
when they wear it when they run but all
01:04:12
that other stuff it's just crazy and and
01:04:16
I think we forget how important
01:04:19
relationships are over the last few
01:04:22
months the amount of lovely time I've
01:04:24
spent with people where we've been
01:04:26
really truthful in expressing our
01:04:28
feelings for each other telling each
01:04:30
other that we love each other how much
01:04:31
we care for each other and having
01:04:33
special time and just recently because
01:04:35
I'm so tired a lot of time when people
01:04:36
come around I'm like can we just sit on
01:04:38
the sofa and snuggle and just just have
01:04:40
a cuddle and just talk and we don't do
01:04:43
enough of that there's this emphasis on
01:04:45
going to flashh restaurants and doing
01:04:47
stuff doesn't life doesn't have to be
01:04:48
about that it can be about just being
01:04:50
together have you always been good with
01:04:52
the stuff and quite communicative or has
01:04:54
it sort of been accelerated oh no I
01:04:56
think I think I've been pretty good I've
01:04:59
somehow I have ended up with a huge
01:05:02
number of friends
01:05:03
I've being in touch staying in touch
01:05:06
with people has always been important
01:05:08
I've been quite good at communication I
01:05:09
think so I've moved around a lot this is
01:05:12
this address now is my 40th
01:05:15
address and despite moving everywhere
01:05:19
I've made sure that I've kept in touch
01:05:21
with people I've worked with or been
01:05:22
friends with and that's why this is huge
01:05:26
process now of trying to see everyone
01:05:28
and say goodbye to everyone but I think
01:05:31
I think the communication telling people
01:05:34
how I feel about them might be one of
01:05:36
the
01:05:37
reasons or one of the ways that I've
01:05:39
managed to develop such deep
01:05:41
friendships yeah how would you like to
01:05:43
be
01:05:45
remembered hopefully as as someone who
01:05:48
made a difference in people's lives to
01:05:50
know is that a bit too too big boastful
01:05:55
well no it's your story it seems like
01:05:58
you feel embarrassed about saying that
01:05:59
out loud I was just as I as I was saying
01:06:02
that I thought gosh that's probably a
01:06:03
bit too tall
01:06:05
poppy well jeez if you can't say it a
01:06:08
few weeks out from um your death when
01:06:10
can you say it I think that's a very
01:06:12
very reasonable expectation of how to be
01:06:14
remembered yeah um I had a guy around
01:06:18
the other day a guy called dug Allen
01:06:19
who's like a multisport uh Legend and
01:06:21
he's current in Team New Zealand he did
01:06:23
um in one of those God Zone events a few
01:06:25
years with M and he said um during one
01:06:29
of the one of the nights like night
01:06:30
three or night four or whatever this
01:06:32
5day event um they would they they come
01:06:35
up with little games to try to keep each
01:06:36
other awake and Richie mcco asked
01:06:39
everyone in the team um three words for
01:06:43
how they'd like to be described at their
01:06:45
funeral um yeah can you think of three
01:06:48
words oh God you brung that one on me
01:06:50
didn't you not one to spring on someone
01:06:52
with chemo
01:06:53
brain um
01:07:00
friendly I'd like everyone to think
01:07:02
because I've always tried to be friendly
01:07:03
to make people feel really welcome so so
01:07:06
friendly
01:07:11
um is going to be wrong loving cuz I I
01:07:14
feel I feel I've had a lot of love for
01:07:17
people and hopefully they've really felt
01:07:20
that that love and stubborn yeah
01:07:26
I why was that the first one cuz I am
01:07:29
stubborn as a mule I will I you know
01:07:33
I've said before you can dress it up as
01:07:34
determined or whatever but there's no
01:07:36
there's no dress up it is stubborn and
01:07:39
if I get my mind set on something it
01:07:41
will happen Paul is laughs I say to him
01:07:43
all you've got to do is Express the
01:07:45
slightest interest in want to do
01:07:46
something and the minute he says it it's
01:07:49
like helicopter riding Queen down it's
01:07:51
booked flights are booked hotels booked
01:07:53
everything it's like I'm going to make
01:07:55
things
01:07:56
happen yeah you do you're a go-getter
01:07:59
yeah um and that that's the um the
01:08:02
tragedy and the crime of this whole
01:08:03
thing it's like um yeah you started
01:08:06
running in your in you in your 40s um
01:08:09
when you got the diagnosis you were the
01:08:10
fittest you'd ever been in your life you
01:08:12
know the top 1% of um Fitness for people
01:08:15
in your early 50s and this should be the
01:08:17
time of the Life Time of Your Life where
01:08:19
you're coming into your own you know and
01:08:20
I want I want a legacy from this like
01:08:24
what the good things got come out of it
01:08:26
well when I went through cancer first
01:08:28
time round and all my treatment I did
01:08:30
some articles that were on stuff about
01:08:33
the importance of exercising cancer
01:08:36
because I don't think people I think
01:08:37
people are scared of going out and
01:08:39
exercising when they're going through
01:08:41
cancer treatment but it's so important
01:08:43
so important a lot of the oncologists
01:08:45
and and medical people I've spoken to
01:08:46
have said if you could put exercise in a
01:08:48
pill it would be such a dramatic change
01:08:51
for people's cancer patient well now I
01:08:54
feel because because I'm I want to be
01:08:56
really open about the decisions I've
01:08:58
made about going through the assisted
01:09:00
death then maybe I could have a bit of a
01:09:02
legacy in helping people understand that
01:09:06
a that it is a thing there's still
01:09:07
people who don't realize it's legal in
01:09:08
New Zealand that it's coming up for r at
01:09:11
the end of the year to to make sure that
01:09:13
it definitely gets through again but to
01:09:16
get people talking about it because it
01:09:18
was really hard when when I was going
01:09:20
through I'm lucky at the moment the The
01:09:22
Guardian newspaper in in Australia in
01:09:25
the UK has had a whole series of
01:09:27
articles about assist to death about
01:09:30
about ways to do it like getting the
01:09:32
whole family together rather than just
01:09:34
being one person and doctor of getting
01:09:36
people together and having it as a bit
01:09:37
of a celebration of your life to go
01:09:40
rather than being this secretive thing
01:09:43
getting people talking about it and if
01:09:46
by being public about this now I can get
01:09:50
someone else talking about it talking to
01:09:52
their family about it or someone else
01:09:53
considering it as an option of something
01:09:56
that they're willing to voice out loud
01:09:59
then I think it's it's worth it yeah oh
01:10:02
you're a good Advocate why why do you
01:10:03
think it is so
01:10:05
controversial I think because people
01:10:08
link it with suicide and it and it's not
01:10:11
it's not
01:10:13
suicide it in my way of thinking I think
01:10:16
suicide can be a really tragic thing
01:10:18
where people are ill people who are
01:10:20
committing suicide are ill and it's not
01:10:24
a choice that they're necessarily
01:10:27
making but the assisted death is
01:10:31
actually a a real
01:10:33
privilege and it's it's a way to take
01:10:36
control back when you get cancer or you
01:10:38
get a disease your control is taken away
01:10:41
from you and you you lose a part of
01:10:46
yourself and to be able to be given that
01:10:48
control back is is huge and to be able
01:10:50
to make decision to be able to die in a
01:10:53
in a painless way with people you love
01:10:55
well you know I think people often say
01:10:58
we do that for Animals you know if our
01:10:59
if our an animals die and die I don't
01:11:02
think it's you know it's a really good
01:11:04
comparison but I don't NE you if you
01:11:06
break a league yeah yeah but but I know
01:11:09
what you mean but it is you know we
01:11:11
wouldn't see let an animal go through
01:11:13
immense pain and yet in some countries
01:11:16
humans are and and why is it such a
01:11:18
battle we have a right to life why don't
01:11:21
we have a right to death yeah also
01:11:23
you're an incredibly proud person
01:11:25
so if you want to leave and be
01:11:29
remembered a certain way then I think
01:11:31
that's your decision yeah yeah exactly
01:11:34
um what would your message be for anyone
01:11:36
watching this who is not staring death
01:11:39
in the face but is perhaps not living
01:11:40
their life to the full oh do something
01:11:44
every day that makes you happy that's
01:11:46
something that I've I've done pretty
01:11:48
much for the last 5 years since I got
01:11:51
diagnosed and sometimes that's something
01:11:53
that makes me happy is going and having
01:11:55
ni ice cream or have a bit of chocolate
01:11:57
but sometimes it's do something nice for
01:11:59
somebody else or going to you know
01:12:02
ticking off that bucket list I'm lucky
01:12:04
because of the career that I've had that
01:12:06
I've had enough money to be able to take
01:12:07
off The Bucket List not everybody does
01:12:10
but it doesn't mean you still can't you
01:12:11
know go for a nice walk or something so
01:12:14
does it doesn't have to be expensive
01:12:16
stuff it's being true to yourself but
01:12:20
doing more things things that make us
01:12:22
happy I think that's something that's
01:12:24
really important that enough of us do
01:12:26
and being really honest with the people
01:12:29
in your
01:12:30
life and what would your final words or
01:12:33
message be for people who love you so
01:12:35
something that they can uh come back and
01:12:37
watch or listen to you know whenever
01:12:40
they want whenever they're having a sad
01:12:41
day I'm so sorry that this has happened
01:12:44
that I'm leaving them I really am
01:12:47
I I love them all so much so much and
01:12:54
I'm Ed to be leaving them it's too soon
01:12:58
I want another 50 years with
01:13:00
them but I but I don't want another 50
01:13:04
years of me just sitting there existing
01:13:06
I I need to do it on my own terms I've
01:13:09
got to do this now I know it's the right
01:13:11
thing for me they all know it's the
01:13:13
right thing for me it doesn't make it
01:13:15
easy for my sister particularly Linda I
01:13:19
just I love her so
01:13:21
much and it's just I hate what I see
01:13:25
this is doing to
01:13:26
her but we've got to do it and we love
01:13:30
each other enough I think you know it's
01:13:31
that what's the song If You Love Someone
01:13:33
set them free and she she knows she
01:13:36
loves me enough that she knows this is
01:13:38
the right thing for me and Paul yeah
01:13:43
just I'm so
01:13:49
sorry is there anything else anything
01:13:51
else um that we haven't touched upon
01:13:54
today that you'd like to
01:13:56
no I think we've covered a pretty pretty
01:13:58
wide area I um you know on the day
01:14:02
itself I'm going to have a relatively
01:14:04
small group of people with me but I've
01:14:06
got time in the
01:14:08
leadup
01:14:09
I as much as I can I'm happy to answer
01:14:14
qu questions get people talking about it
01:14:17
to try to help people going through the
01:14:20
situation because if it yeah I'm I know
01:14:25
I need to be careful and in how I spend
01:14:28
my energy and I want to spend as much
01:14:29
time as I can with the people who are
01:14:31
really important to me but if I can do
01:14:34
something to raise the awareness more I
01:14:37
think that would be a really good thing
01:14:39
and it may be that I could have a big
01:14:41
impact by doing an an interview an
01:14:43
article or something rather than talking
01:14:46
to lots of different people but yeah
01:14:48
that would be
01:14:50
awesome yeah well Tracy thank thank you
01:14:54
so much for giving me the opportunity to
01:14:56
talk to you cuz I I reached out to your
01:14:58
mom to say hey can we do something like
01:15:01
this and I was thinking of it as being
01:15:03
just something for my family to have I
01:15:05
didn't think it'd be enough information
01:15:07
for it to be commercial and of interest
01:15:08
for your actual podcast but um but yeah
01:15:13
thank you thank you for giving me the
01:15:14
chance to do this an no you're welcome
01:15:16
thank you for the opportunity to do it
01:15:19
um I mean yeah death is one of the
01:15:21
certainties of life isn't it it's
01:15:23
something we're all going to face yet
01:15:24
it's something that we're all uh
01:15:26
terrified of and it's kind of taboo to
01:15:28
talk about it in a way so thank you for
01:15:29
shining a torch in particular on the um
01:15:32
assisted dying thing yeah um yeah Tracy
01:15:36
Hickman it's been a fabulous life way
01:15:40
too short um but I hope it's a fabulous
01:15:43
death as well because you deserve
01:15:44
nothing less thank you thank you
01:15:55
oh