00:00:00
okay Runners only with dime Harley
00:00:03
Runners only with dom Harvey and from
00:00:06
Christchurch is that Guilford g'day mate
00:00:08
hey brother how are you really really
00:00:10
good it's so good to connect with you
00:00:12
again uh Monday the 19th of December and
00:00:15
uh just basically a couple of days off
00:00:18
home detention for you Friday December
00:00:20
16th that was the last day you're a free
00:00:22
man now
00:00:24
yeah I mean yeah I was I was really
00:00:27
looking looking forward to it like the
00:00:29
last two weeks was pretty hard because
00:00:31
they put me on sort of full lockdown so
00:00:34
I couldn't leave the house who did like
00:00:36
Corrections yeah corrections I was late
00:00:38
home from a from a cricket game 45
00:00:41
minutes late so they sort of I think it
00:00:43
was a a test from uh their point of view
00:00:46
and it was a test because um you know I
00:00:48
started to get a good bit of balance in
00:00:49
my life and then uh
00:00:51
yeah the last two weeks were really
00:00:53
challenging I wasn't allowed out
00:00:55
um at all really but um I guess that's
00:00:57
part of the punishment so I accepted
00:00:59
that just and um yeah managed to get
00:01:03
through the sentence but not a lot has
00:01:04
changed really yeah you seem you seem a
00:01:07
little bit frustrated by that were they
00:01:08
being were they being a little bit pissy
00:01:10
Maybe
00:01:11
uh yeah that hopeless
00:01:15
um didn't really get a lot of support
00:01:17
from the system to be honest
00:01:19
um
00:01:20
you know even though it's you know
00:01:21
obviously my fault I was there doing the
00:01:24
the punishment I would I would say but
00:01:26
it would have been nice if there was a
00:01:28
bit more of sort of a rehabilitative
00:01:29
focus on um on the sentence as well
00:01:33
instead of just uh blocking you up for
00:01:35
nine months and throwing away the key
00:01:36
but
00:01:37
um as I said there are heaps of
00:01:39
learnings from That Rock Bottom
00:01:41
experience still on the way up but um
00:01:43
extremely grateful for it but I would
00:01:45
have liked a little bit more support
00:01:46
yeah yeah you and I have been in touch
00:01:49
on a regular basis this year and I know
00:01:50
you've done a lot of work but um it's
00:01:52
all come from within really hasn't it
00:01:54
pretty much yeah like I sort of as we
00:01:57
talked about the last podcast made a
00:01:59
decision you know I wasn't well I did
00:02:01
try and
00:02:02
um I guess commit suicide last year and
00:02:05
I realized you know once I made that
00:02:07
choice and I Come Around again that I
00:02:08
didn't want to die so the the options
00:02:11
were to sort of either hide under a rock
00:02:13
for the rest of my life or use the tools
00:02:15
I'd learned over time and sort of try
00:02:19
and put to bed a few addictions I'd
00:02:21
struggled with over time and
00:02:24
um yeah it was a [ __ ] hard nine
00:02:26
months to tell you the truth but I'm
00:02:28
glad I'm at the end of it now and glad
00:02:29
that I've got a bit more freedom
00:02:32
um yeah I wanted to um I wanted to ask
00:02:34
you about that because um yeah a lot of
00:02:35
people especially if you listen to I
00:02:37
don't know like you talking ZB a lot of
00:02:38
people when they talk about home
00:02:39
detention this is people that haven't
00:02:40
been on it they talk about how it's
00:02:42
basically just a like a cushy a cushy
00:02:45
punishment you know you're sitting at
00:02:46
home you're watching Netflix
00:02:48
um why was it tough what's tough about
00:02:49
it
00:02:50
um I guess when I first started the
00:02:52
punishment I was in employment or the
00:02:54
sentence I should say
00:02:57
um and I was I was getting uh quite a
00:02:59
lot of help from Corrections and then I
00:03:01
sort of walked out on that employment
00:03:03
things didn't really align so um it was
00:03:07
sort of back to square one not square
00:03:09
one for me but
00:03:11
um a point where you know I was spending
00:03:12
a lot of time at home and trying to
00:03:14
build my own things up from the bottom
00:03:17
um so it was a lengthy process and a
00:03:19
test of patients and I don't have a lot
00:03:22
of patience at the best of time so I'm
00:03:24
pretty proud of myself for actually
00:03:25
sitting in that struggle and getting
00:03:28
through it and not losing the plot and
00:03:29
ending up with um you know breach or a
00:03:32
harsher sentence but
00:03:34
yeah I guess things like you know not
00:03:36
being able to see a psychologist through
00:03:37
the probation system because I wasn't
00:03:39
deemed
00:03:41
what's the word at risk enough or
00:03:43
dangerous enough
00:03:44
um and I think just scraping through
00:03:46
with I guess you know a few bare minimum
00:03:48
programs they sort of checked me on and
00:03:51
um
00:03:51
not being allowed to I guess
00:03:55
enjoy a lot of freedom at all which I
00:03:58
was enjoying at the start of the
00:03:59
sentence and they sort of close shop
00:04:00
after that so it was sort of sit home
00:04:02
and build a few things up in the
00:04:04
background and get on with it the best I
00:04:05
can but within our so yeah yeah it
00:04:08
doesn't bit strange there because you
00:04:10
think it would be um like um your
00:04:12
maximum restrictions in the early stages
00:04:13
and then more freedom as the sentence
00:04:15
progresses but it was the opposite for
00:04:17
you
00:04:18
yeah yeah pretty much so like I was out
00:04:21
you know within the first month or two
00:04:22
getting a lot of balance into my life I
00:04:24
was there to go to the gym I was allowed
00:04:25
to get out and play golf and then as I
00:04:28
said they sort of shut up shop a little
00:04:29
bit so um nice dog those were some of my
00:04:33
um those some were harshest learnings
00:04:35
because
00:04:36
um I'm not one that's that patient um so
00:04:39
that's been a big learning and I'm not
00:04:40
one that um
00:04:43
likes to be told what to do so I sort of
00:04:45
had to drop a lot of the ego there and
00:04:47
realize that I wasn't in power here so I
00:04:50
need to shut up and get you know do my
00:04:52
best to get on with it and listen to the
00:04:53
instructions that are being put in front
00:04:55
of me yeah so so the bracelet the home
00:04:57
detention bracelet came off on um Friday
00:04:59
afternoon
00:05:01
um how does it feel after that is it
00:05:02
strange is it scary is it liberating
00:05:04
like what do you what do you do
00:05:06
yeah it was weird so I've got the
00:05:09
bracelet taken off and then we went
00:05:11
um a few of us a few of the boys that
00:05:12
are working for me and a few close mates
00:05:14
went over to the beach and had a bit of
00:05:16
a swim and stuff like that and then um
00:05:19
yeah the boys were going about their
00:05:21
usual Friday night and I sort of come
00:05:22
home with one other close mate and
00:05:24
um we went and got a feed but I don't
00:05:26
know there was a bit of anxiety floating
00:05:28
around I didn't
00:05:29
um I didn't want to go into the mall or
00:05:31
go to any big places so we sort of come
00:05:34
home had a feed on the Friday night then
00:05:36
I was in bed by night
00:05:39
in the middle of this
00:05:43
yeah and what was this freaking out what
00:05:45
do you think this might be a tough
00:05:47
question to just answer simply but um
00:05:49
what were the biggest learnings about
00:05:50
yourself on home detention
00:05:53
um
00:05:54
definitely one of patience
00:05:57
um when I spoke to you last time you
00:05:59
know I was fresh into my I guess
00:06:01
recovery Journey
00:06:02
um so I was sort of right in that pink
00:06:04
Cloud but then when a few challenges got
00:06:06
put in front of me you know like the you
00:06:08
know the employment thing and having to
00:06:10
rebuild again in terms of finding new
00:06:12
employment and stuff that was when the
00:06:14
real tests began
00:06:16
um so you know I started
00:06:18
playing a few stories through my own
00:06:19
head you know is this really worth it
00:06:21
I'm not where I want to be now but um
00:06:23
yeah I guess having set in that struggle
00:06:26
for once instead of trying to find
00:06:28
ulterior ways to get out of it like
00:06:29
addiction there were a lot of learnings
00:06:31
there for me
00:06:33
um a lot yeah I wouldn't I'd never said
00:06:35
and um sit in the struggle and
00:06:38
especially for the you know the few
00:06:40
months I had to there so that was the
00:06:42
biggest one for me is just setting the
00:06:44
discomfort and learning from it because
00:06:46
so you're um your sobriety so you've
00:06:48
been off um your drugs alcohol gambling
00:06:51
your three biggest vices since March
00:06:52
this year was that um was that a quote
00:06:54
impose thing or is that just something
00:06:55
you decided you had to do
00:06:57
um well it's definitely caught imposed
00:06:59
as well but I guess like I said
00:07:02
um said to you previously I wanted to
00:07:04
start rebuilding my life in an authentic
00:07:06
way I didn't want to be the guy that had
00:07:08
these identities attached men couldn't
00:07:11
break them if you know what I mean so I
00:07:13
made that decision to give it a real
00:07:14
crack so as long as along with being
00:07:16
caught imposed it was sort of something
00:07:18
that it was definitely something that
00:07:20
come within as well and I've got a few
00:07:21
good mates down here that um you know on
00:07:24
summer Journeys helps me stay
00:07:26
accountable yeah I suppose that's the
00:07:28
key thing I let him that support network
00:07:29
around you people that are on the same
00:07:30
you know like-minded people people on
00:07:32
the same page
00:07:33
um but I've got friends who have um you
00:07:35
know quit booze and they they say to me
00:07:38
they will say a similar story they say
00:07:39
it can be quite confronting having to
00:07:40
face all your demons and your flaws and
00:07:42
your problems without masking it is that
00:07:44
sort of what your experience has been
00:07:46
yeah yeah definitely like there's no
00:07:49
um putting that plaster on I guess
00:07:52
for me you know I went to Cricket a few
00:07:53
weeks ago and um it was the first time
00:07:55
I've been to Cricket without having a
00:07:56
beer and that that seemed really foreign
00:07:58
but you know the game I played on the
00:07:59
weekend
00:08:00
um I guess getting that second time not
00:08:02
having a bit becomes a lot more normal
00:08:04
if you know what I mean but
00:08:06
um you know gambling was a massive one
00:08:08
for me when I had when I faced adversity
00:08:10
or struggles that was sort of my safe
00:08:12
space was to you know go and just
00:08:14
um
00:08:16
put the mask on and get away from
00:08:17
everything go into a world that where
00:08:20
you feel safe and you can't be disturbed
00:08:22
but that was my false
00:08:23
sense of safety so I'm slowly growing
00:08:27
further apart from that identity which
00:08:28
is nice yeah and are you enjoying the
00:08:30
sober life
00:08:32
um yeah it's good I mean
00:08:34
that don't get me wrong that uh I guess
00:08:36
you know when I could hear 660 playing
00:08:37
from home on my last week of uh Home D
00:08:40
that was quite triggering I was like
00:08:41
[ __ ] this this sucks you know everyone
00:08:43
else having a good time I'm sitting here
00:08:45
doing nothing but um oh it's just you
00:08:48
know just those mind games and you know
00:08:50
once I
00:08:51
fight through those urges or triggers it
00:08:54
you really realize that
00:08:56
um addiction isn't worth it and that
00:08:59
it's only as I'd say a temporary plaster
00:09:01
and then once you remove that plaster
00:09:02
the wounds come oozing out so um
00:09:06
yeah that's yeah is it scary to think of
00:09:09
a life without vices like you know New
00:09:11
Year's Eve come is coming up I'm
00:09:12
guessing this is going to be the first
00:09:13
New Year's Eve you've been sober for as
00:09:14
long as what you can remember really
00:09:16
uh
00:09:19
yeah yeah what about like temperature
00:09:21
Temptations yeah yeah fully sober no
00:09:25
it'll be it'll be tough but I think you
00:09:27
know as I said I've created a really
00:09:28
sort of safe container down here so
00:09:30
people ask what plans you made what are
00:09:32
you doing I said yeah not much will
00:09:34
change really you know a few more runs a
00:09:36
few more trainings down the open a few
00:09:37
more beaches
00:09:39
um waterfalls but yeah not much will
00:09:41
change for me really yeah well that's
00:09:43
cool and how's Christmas going to look
00:09:45
for you who are you going to be with are
00:09:46
you with your family or you're staying
00:09:48
down there in Christchurch
00:09:50
um
00:09:51
I haven't even made any plans like yeah
00:09:54
it's
00:09:55
um probably just stay down here Dom and
00:09:57
then head up north and catch up with a
00:09:58
few people and sort of late December and
00:10:00
stuff but I'm just playing it day by day
00:10:02
at the moment just getting through each
00:10:03
day and um seeing what each day brings
00:10:05
so yeah there's a yeah not too many
00:10:07
plans to be honest yeah oh that's good
00:10:09
and your um next year is looking busy
00:10:12
for you you're um you've got a coaching
00:10:14
job uh with the wood end Rugby Club
00:10:16
um is this something you can see like in
00:10:18
your I mean it should be the most
00:10:20
amazing thing is 15 years from now you
00:10:22
become like the all black coach or
00:10:23
something I'd be
00:10:26
incredible story of redemption like hey
00:10:28
do you have coaching aspirations
00:10:31
um
00:10:32
I mean you've got a lot you do have a
00:10:33
lot to offer the sport
00:10:35
yeah I've got approached Bob wooden
00:10:36
after I'd done the last podcast with you
00:10:39
um said are they great people so I sort
00:10:42
of said yeah I'll coach and yeah I'll
00:10:44
play as well so um I've definitely
00:10:46
committed to a lot heading into next
00:10:48
year but something that I'm excited
00:10:49
about oh um it sort of pulls me out of
00:10:52
my comfort zone and puts me into
00:10:54
something that's going to test me and
00:10:55
that's where I find that I grow
00:10:58
um I don't have any aspirations to be
00:11:00
the All Blacks coach that looks hard
00:11:02
enough as it is at the moment but um oh
00:11:04
we'll see how we go you know if I can
00:11:06
relate to the players well and then that
00:11:07
transfers through throughout I don't
00:11:09
know leadership all my coaching skills
00:11:11
and that's cool but I'm sort of stepping
00:11:12
into a bit of the unknown as well I
00:11:14
guess yeah what was the story with
00:11:16
wooden there was a bit of backlash there
00:11:17
when that was announced right I remember
00:11:18
reading about this and they were what
00:11:21
was the scandal with that yeah so
00:11:24
uh they sort of have had a few years of
00:11:26
struggling towards the bottom of the
00:11:28
ladder and I think what happened is they
00:11:30
just said Isaac's going to be coached
00:11:32
like it'll leave it sort of thing and
00:11:33
then um a few
00:11:35
board members I think left
00:11:38
um but since then you know we've had um
00:11:40
we've started our pre-season we've had a
00:11:43
pretty honest AGM it was interesting to
00:11:46
be part of and the club's heading in the
00:11:48
right direction so if there any players
00:11:51
out there that that want to uh that want
00:11:54
to I guess spread their wings and come
00:11:55
and play for us where we will do with uh
00:11:57
any help that we can get yeah how does
00:11:59
um how does that make you feel like the
00:12:01
backlash with the board members and
00:12:02
stuff I mean does that um is there a
00:12:05
part of you that can understand it or
00:12:06
does it sort of like hurt your feelings
00:12:07
it's like you you know it's like you're
00:12:10
making this you make a mistake well you
00:12:11
make several mistakes and then you pay
00:12:13
the price and you try and move on with
00:12:14
your life but there's always going to be
00:12:15
I feel like that element of society
00:12:17
that's going to try and you know refuse
00:12:20
you the right to Redemption yeah I guess
00:12:23
for me it's like a bit of a mixture of
00:12:25
emotions you know you get that hurt in a
00:12:27
child that thinks oh
00:12:29
it's not the sucks you know I feel like
00:12:31
[ __ ] but then um I have to put my hand
00:12:33
up and take responsibility and realize
00:12:35
that I was the one that that have made
00:12:37
that had made a few mistakes especially
00:12:39
over the last 10 years and struggled to
00:12:41
break that cycle so I can definitely
00:12:43
see where they're they're coming from at
00:12:45
the same time so yeah like anything it's
00:12:47
a bit of a roller coaster of emotions
00:12:49
you're like oh these guys don't like me
00:12:51
oh I'm [ __ ] blah blah but then yeah I
00:12:53
guess once get out of that victim
00:12:54
mentality and put you put my hand up but
00:12:56
you can I can sort of make a bit more
00:12:58
peace with it yeah yeah and I I suppose
00:13:01
um yeah the more Daylight you can put
00:13:03
between your mistakes and where you are
00:13:05
now as a person like the less it'll get
00:13:07
over time but I suppose that's the thing
00:13:09
it's just time right yeah exactly it's
00:13:11
confidence time doing the right thing
00:13:13
um surrounding myself with the right
00:13:14
people
00:13:15
and it's a pretty simple plane you know
00:13:17
it's not to go back to the stuff that
00:13:19
eventually ruined my life and you know
00:13:21
nearly bought me to Suicide so um it's a
00:13:25
simple plan but it can be a tricky one
00:13:26
as well in the mind of an addict yeah
00:13:28
yeah mentally you know you're mostly a
00:13:30
good place now I know the last couple of
00:13:32
weeks and on home detention we're rough
00:13:33
for you but it's more good days than bad
00:13:35
days
00:13:36
um yeah more good days and bad days at
00:13:38
the moment like don't get me wrong you
00:13:39
know I still struggle get stuck in my
00:13:41
own head
00:13:42
um you know again just around the
00:13:43
patience thing and not being where I
00:13:45
want to be when um you know so used to
00:13:47
living life of I guess just turning up
00:13:49
the training and massive amounts of
00:13:51
wages being put into the account on the
00:13:54
monthly basis you know to I guess
00:13:57
break away from their identity as a
00:13:59
rugby player and try and carve something
00:14:01
new for myself and yeah the business
00:14:03
World community and again um you know
00:14:06
out at wooden it's um it's challenging
00:14:08
but one that I know that's going to be
00:14:10
worth it in the long run yeah absolutely
00:14:11
absolutely and you you ended up in um in
00:14:14
this position
00:14:15
um after you um stole some money from
00:14:17
your granddad to to pay for a gambling
00:14:19
problem how's things now I know when we
00:14:21
spoke last in the middle of the Year
00:14:22
you'd spoken to him on the phone and had
00:14:24
a like a burst into tears I think both
00:14:27
of you
00:14:28
um yeah where are things at now how
00:14:29
often do you speak is
00:14:31
yeah we speak every couple of weeks
00:14:33
still I could um yeah it's um it's like
00:14:36
it's sort of like
00:14:38
um nothing's happened you know but I
00:14:40
guess that real test of healing will be
00:14:42
when you know I see my family
00:14:45
um as a whole again you know I've had a
00:14:48
few uncles down here and obviously talk
00:14:50
to all my family
00:14:52
um now that hurts me mostly put behind
00:14:55
us
00:14:56
um
00:14:57
but yeah I actually got an email to the
00:14:59
family Christmas this year so that was
00:15:00
nice to receive once again so what have
00:15:03
you not been on the family Christmas
00:15:04
list the last couple of years not last
00:15:06
year I think I must set one but um okay
00:15:09
no still I was still in the victim
00:15:12
victim mentality so I you know I know my
00:15:14
family see me put my hand up and and put
00:15:17
making a real effort to put my life
00:15:18
together now so hopefully I'll catch up
00:15:20
them when I make a plan which hasn't
00:15:22
happened yet right now I'm sure um I'm
00:15:24
sure from you you love the perspective
00:15:26
of your granddad it was more about
00:15:28
um the Betrayal and the trust rather
00:15:30
than the amount of money like the amount
00:15:32
of money probably didn't really matter
00:15:34
um but like as their plans to like repay
00:15:37
the money or yeah that's been that's
00:15:40
been um that's been repaid in some way
00:15:43
but I'm still obviously repaying other
00:15:46
get through my court fines that I pay
00:15:49
weekly
00:15:50
um
00:15:52
200 a week so for how long
00:15:55
until 60 something K gets paid back so
00:15:58
it's going to be for a while what was
00:16:00
there for my mix isn't that sharp um for
00:16:03
that other charge that I got on the same
00:16:05
day so
00:16:07
yeah as I said like it's um a test of
00:16:10
patience and
00:16:13
um I was never that good at paying my
00:16:15
bills so I guess to
00:16:17
um finally have my big boy pants on
00:16:19
being able to
00:16:21
put my money in the right direction
00:16:22
finally
00:16:23
um has been another massive learning as
00:16:25
well not that I have a lot of it but um
00:16:27
the wheels are in motion slowly yeah
00:16:29
what's your um
00:16:32
you're um in a voice and a Critic light
00:16:34
these days
00:16:35
um how do you feel about yourself when
00:16:36
you're alone
00:16:39
uh a lot better than I did a year ago
00:16:41
today I'm to be honest
00:16:43
um but you know it still doesn't
00:16:45
disappear
00:16:46
um that voice that inner critic so
00:16:49
I do you know I do battle from time to
00:16:51
time it's not all rainbows and sunshines
00:16:53
and Recovery land there are times you
00:16:54
know when I lie in bed and I can't shut
00:16:56
that voice down so I do have you know
00:16:59
tools that I use exercise massive for me
00:17:01
uh meditation the container of people
00:17:04
that
00:17:05
um have offered me support down here as
00:17:07
an is again a safe space to unload that
00:17:11
um so we're good mate Jakey boy as you
00:17:13
know he's always uh he's always a good
00:17:15
one to talk to but I think the inner
00:17:17
critic will always be there it's just
00:17:18
slowly over time making peaceful there
00:17:21
and
00:17:23
getting used to this new Game of Life
00:17:25
that I'm trying to create for myself
00:17:27
yeah yeah do you love yourself or you
00:17:30
even like yourself
00:17:32
um definitely get in there Dom if you
00:17:34
ask me that question lastly I would have
00:17:35
said hell no but um
00:17:37
yeah it's a it's a tricky one because
00:17:40
um you know I've always grown up
00:17:42
striving
00:17:44
um to try and be better
00:17:46
um I think I said to you last time but I
00:17:48
was playing rugby I got two tries I'd be
00:17:50
like why don't you get three you know
00:17:51
you're useless you're [ __ ] so I'm slowly
00:17:53
making peace with that um for the hike I
00:17:56
guess expectations that I set myself for
00:17:58
so long yeah it's a tough I know it's a
00:18:02
tough one that I think it's a work in
00:18:03
progress for most of us all the time but
00:18:05
it's like you're my dealings with you
00:18:07
you're a you're a really nice guy like
00:18:08
you'd never be mean to anyone else so it
00:18:11
seems odd that you'd be so horrible to
00:18:12
yourself at times
00:18:13
yeah and I guess that's their identity
00:18:16
that I created for myself over time you
00:18:18
know I guess always looking up to my dad
00:18:21
um wanting to be what he was and I guess
00:18:23
never feeling like I really
00:18:25
even though you know I made some good
00:18:26
Rugby teams and you know scored some
00:18:29
good tries over time I never really felt
00:18:31
like I was fulfilling that potential if
00:18:33
you know what I mean and that's just you
00:18:35
know the hurt kid and a Critic and a
00:18:36
child
00:18:38
um
00:18:38
so yeah the world's own the world's own
00:18:40
progress but I'm definitely yeah I like
00:18:42
myself I think I'm a good cat most of
00:18:44
the time it's just women you know when I
00:18:47
dip back into the things that ruin my
00:18:49
life you know like the alcohol gambling
00:18:50
and drugs that would
00:18:52
take me further away from I guess the
00:18:54
real person that I wanted to be so
00:18:56
becoming a bit closer and dropping from
00:18:58
head into heart is um
00:19:00
there's a journey but one on one-on-one
00:19:03
yeah and I suppose it's a downward
00:19:04
spiral sort of things so you do these
00:19:06
things which give you like a like a a
00:19:08
quick rash or a sugar hurt or whatever
00:19:10
you want to call it like gambling drugs
00:19:11
whatever but then you feel even worse
00:19:13
afterwards and you're filled with guilt
00:19:15
and shame and stuff
00:19:16
yeah would that be a fear wave instead
00:19:19
of looking at it well yeah it's like a
00:19:22
it's like anything I guess you know
00:19:24
after I'd been drinking I'd be hanging
00:19:26
over after I'd you know used to do class
00:19:28
A drugs I definitely have a come down
00:19:30
and you know after gambling when you've
00:19:32
sort of thrown 10K at a wall and you
00:19:34
don't have any return for it you know
00:19:35
that's um
00:19:36
you do beat yourself I did beat myself
00:19:38
up it was
00:19:40
um you know that in a voice why do you
00:19:41
keep doing this why can't you break the
00:19:42
cycle you know your [ __ ]
00:19:45
um
00:19:46
so being able to grow more time and I
00:19:48
guess as I said detaching from their
00:19:51
identity is a massive struggle but one
00:19:54
that I'm getting closer towards if you
00:19:56
know what I mean yeah yeah oh you're
00:19:58
doing great mate you're doing great and
00:20:00
uh uh yeah I never knew your dad but I
00:20:03
feel like if he was around he'd be proud
00:20:05
of the work you've done this year like
00:20:06
maybe even more proud of the week you've
00:20:07
done this year than the stuff you did on
00:20:09
the field
00:20:10
yeah thanks brother it's yeah as I said
00:20:12
it's yeah oh this is way harder than
00:20:14
anything that you have to do on the
00:20:15
field you know
00:20:16
um for me it's quite easy to get fit and
00:20:19
then to get into shape for rugby but to
00:20:22
stay on top of your mental health and
00:20:24
addictions and then you know I guess
00:20:27
putting other people's perception to the
00:20:29
side is um a lot harder than 80 minute
00:20:31
gamer rugby yeah yeah now you mentioned
00:20:34
before um uh Jacob Skilling who um I I
00:20:37
met when I came down to the podcast with
00:20:38
you and we've sort of become made since
00:20:41
What's um tell us about him like how did
00:20:43
you meet what's your relationship with
00:20:44
him he's like your best mate right yeah
00:20:46
he's like best mate I guess
00:20:49
yeah I guess so the early guy I had a
00:20:51
bromance within this adult life is as he
00:20:53
gag and we sort of did everything
00:20:55
together because
00:20:56
um you know two boys from the Hawke's
00:20:57
Bay and lived up the road from each
00:20:59
other a similar age made professional
00:21:01
sing at the same time and I guess you're
00:21:03
bumping into Jake in my 30s and
00:21:05
realizing you know that there's another
00:21:07
brother like myself on the same Journey
00:21:10
um of surprise sobriety and
00:21:12
someone that needs a mate like I do as
00:21:15
well has been pretty special I mean
00:21:16
we're from two different walks of life
00:21:19
he's um
00:21:20
he's actually come from a harsher
00:21:22
upbringing than I have and was still at
00:21:25
a pretty rough hand
00:21:27
um grew up around drugs violence all
00:21:29
that sort of [ __ ]
00:21:31
um sexual harm etc etc and he's an
00:21:34
inspiration for where he is today you
00:21:36
know two and a half years off drugs and
00:21:38
alcohol
00:21:39
um he did a seven eight year lag as well
00:21:42
so
00:21:43
um you know I've had a I've had a pretty
00:21:45
good life compared to him so you know to
00:21:48
be able to see another brother doing
00:21:49
that too gives me inspiration and you
00:21:51
know if there are moments where I doubt
00:21:53
myself
00:21:54
he soon brings me back into line three
00:21:56
the three of the human humor or um his
00:21:59
crop chat yeah he does have very crook
00:22:03
chat um yeah how did your pads cross you
00:22:05
too
00:22:06
um also I reached out to a mutual friend
00:22:09
Rob bukuraka who works in who does some
00:22:12
awesome work in the suicide prevention
00:22:13
space as well yeah Rob for anyone that
00:22:15
um that doesn't know he was um he was he
00:22:18
became quite well known he was in the
00:22:19
news a number of years ago for um yeah
00:22:21
uh attempting to take his own life by a
00:22:24
way that's called suicide by cop we
00:22:26
basically you encourage or provoke the
00:22:28
police to shoot you and he survived it
00:22:30
pretty good right
00:22:33
pretty much it now does a theatrical
00:22:36
play I guess on his life his struggles
00:22:38
and and where he's acting at today and
00:22:40
making peace with um that Tony fire
00:22:42
which is in fact you know you're hurt in
00:22:45
a child or demon or however you want to
00:22:47
look at it so yeah he linked um Jacob
00:22:49
Jacob and I up and then Jacob and I
00:22:51
started working together and then we
00:22:54
realized that we were pretty identical
00:22:56
in a lot of ways
00:22:58
um so yeah we've been sort of joint at
00:23:01
the hip since now you know we'd love
00:23:03
together moved into his house with um
00:23:05
another another close friend and yeah we
00:23:08
just feed up feed off each other you
00:23:09
know there's times where he's down or
00:23:10
I'm down and we
00:23:12
um just there to support each other and
00:23:13
pick each other back up but um yeah as I
00:23:16
said he's lived a whole different life
00:23:17
to me in terms of violence and
00:23:19
um
00:23:21
yeah the type of people he's been around
00:23:23
so it's you know another learning for me
00:23:25
that you know I wasn't dealing with the
00:23:27
roughest hand but I you know no matter
00:23:29
what him we we do we can grow from it if
00:23:32
we want it enough yeah absolutely
00:23:34
absolutely I think that one of the first
00:23:36
times I met him he picked me out from
00:23:37
the airport and uh one of the first
00:23:38
things he said is that he stabbed six
00:23:40
people when he was in jail and then I
00:23:43
had the most harrowing ride from the the
00:23:45
airport to Christchurch City and I've
00:23:48
never seen someone on their phone so
00:23:49
much while they drive yeah I'm like I
00:23:52
say to him every time I'm like I lost my
00:23:54
license because of this bro it's going
00:23:55
to happen to you too yeah but now yeah
00:23:59
he's out the gate but he's um you're
00:24:02
great lovely guys Hat's in the right
00:24:03
space he's helping to he's helping a lot
00:24:05
of people and um yeah we sort of just
00:24:07
bounce off each other both there's crazy
00:24:09
each other but both staying on this
00:24:11
journey of um trying to be better
00:24:13
versions of self I was helping others
00:24:15
within the community if we can as well
00:24:16
yeah I love it and you can you can see
00:24:18
you guys when you're together you both
00:24:19
feed off each other quite nicely and I
00:24:20
can tell when uh if one of you was like
00:24:23
[ __ ] let's let's get a bag and do some
00:24:25
rails yeah the other one would always be
00:24:27
like no let's not do that so there's
00:24:28
always going to be someone there that's
00:24:30
got their head in the right space
00:24:32
yeah exactly so yeah pretty much
00:24:35
um yeah there there are times where you
00:24:38
know we've discussing what happened if
00:24:39
we could do this I said there's always
00:24:41
that one guy that's like no we can't do
00:24:43
that so yeah yeah
00:24:46
have you just accepted now that you like
00:24:49
you just you just can't like drink
00:24:50
social you can't have a couple of beers
00:24:52
you can't have one beer after Cricket
00:24:53
have you sort of sort of accepted that
00:24:55
yeah pretty much I went down to the pub
00:24:58
up the road after Cricket here on
00:25:00
Saturday and um yeah all the boys having
00:25:02
a beer or vodka or whatever they drink
00:25:04
and I just grab the water and
00:25:06
um this is probably the longest time
00:25:07
that I haven't drank before since the
00:25:11
age of about 13.
00:25:13
um so yeah I mean I'm quite proud of
00:25:16
myself but also yeah just it has become
00:25:18
normal for me
00:25:20
um although I haven't put myself in too
00:25:22
many social sit-ins yet
00:25:24
um which I guess will be another test I
00:25:27
just know that
00:25:28
yeah my identity has changed a lot to
00:25:30
the guy that I used to be I guess
00:25:32
chasing
00:25:33
exterior [ __ ] that I'm just over now
00:25:35
yeah what about um any sort of like
00:25:38
physical changes or um or mind changes
00:25:40
that you notice from um Being Sober like
00:25:42
any pleasant surprises like sleeping
00:25:44
better or you know is the skin looking
00:25:47
better or anything like that
00:25:49
I don't know I I
00:25:53
lost from the start of my sentence in
00:25:56
March I got up to about 107 kgs and then
00:25:58
I got down to 93 at one stage I don't
00:26:02
think I'm at 93 anymore I might be up in
00:26:04
the mid High 90s but um definitely a lot
00:26:07
healthier in terms of not being hungover
00:26:09
all the time but I'm a bit of a Binger
00:26:11
on the chocolate and lollies anyway so
00:26:12
that is sort of the substitute at times
00:26:15
but um definitely a lot more mental
00:26:17
Clarity not as [ __ ] on a Sunday you
00:26:20
know I'm not lying in bed or worrying
00:26:22
over mistakes that I've made and stuff
00:26:23
so yeah I guess day by day that pieces
00:26:25
sort of is creeping in but I couldn't
00:26:28
imagine I guess
00:26:30
um you know a Sunday hungover anymore
00:26:32
life's hard enough as it is so yeah I
00:26:34
definitely know that I've made piece of
00:26:36
that but it's just keeping accountable
00:26:38
and keeping
00:26:39
consistent yeah which has proven the
00:26:42
hardest thing for me and what's your
00:26:45
relationship status at the moment last
00:26:46
time I came down you were you were with
00:26:47
a lovely uh lovely young lady that you
00:26:49
met on home detention you're still
00:26:51
seeing here or you're single now
00:26:53
um yeah we still we still get along with
00:26:55
just sort of on our own paths at the
00:26:57
moment because
00:26:58
um you know I've started a business a
00:27:00
bloody player coach out at Woodin I'm
00:27:03
um involved in operations with the trust
00:27:05
so I've got a lot going on yeah um and
00:27:08
she's you know got some things that she
00:27:10
needs to work on her personal life or
00:27:11
her growth as well when although we
00:27:13
still um talk and and catch up and have
00:27:16
a great relationship we sort of just um
00:27:18
going our own past in terms of what's
00:27:21
best for us at the moment
00:27:23
um
00:27:23
because I also get a a very full mind at
00:27:27
times especially when I'm trying to do a
00:27:28
lot so
00:27:30
um at times I can be a little shut off
00:27:32
so there's still lots of learnings and
00:27:34
growth there for me in terms of
00:27:36
communication mostly and letting someone
00:27:38
fully into my life yeah yeah so how did
00:27:41
you guys meet was it like through an app
00:27:45
you know it's through a net dog
00:27:50
no no I I I like I want to know
00:27:53
something that we've never never
00:27:54
discussed about this because
00:27:56
um
00:27:57
I I don't know like when when you first
00:27:59
matched and uh then she started telling
00:28:01
her family or friends or whatever that
00:28:02
she sings that Guilford and he's on home
00:28:04
detention like I'm guessing there was
00:28:06
some blow back or some backlash from her
00:28:07
family or friends like uh did she have
00:28:09
to did she did she discuss that with you
00:28:11
did she have to deal with that
00:28:12
because yeah yeah but I guess because
00:28:15
she's from a different life than I'm
00:28:18
from and um a quite a sheltered life she
00:28:20
didn't tell her family for I think maybe
00:28:22
a couple of weeks or a couple of months
00:28:24
some of them so for me again there was
00:28:27
you know there were like those thoughts
00:28:28
in my head you know but all but I also
00:28:31
realized that you know I'm not the
00:28:33
victim anymore and that you know was so
00:28:35
I had to accept that that was part of
00:28:37
her journey yeah in terms of telling her
00:28:39
family because most people in society
00:28:41
would judge you know someone being on a
00:28:42
home D bracelet I remember I used to
00:28:44
walk around and I used to if I seen
00:28:46
someone on something's ankle I used to
00:28:47
be the one that would steer or look and
00:28:49
think what have they done so
00:28:51
um naturally yeah she didn't tell her
00:28:53
parents and um family members for a
00:28:55
while because of I guess fear of being
00:28:57
judged
00:28:59
um but when she did you know it was just
00:29:01
yeah just explain my I guess my story
00:29:04
and I'm pretty open transparent about
00:29:06
yeah where I'm at now so that sort of I
00:29:08
guess
00:29:09
help with um acceptance from them yeah
00:29:12
yeah that stigma's got to be hard though
00:29:14
I
00:29:15
it's because yeah it is hard do you get
00:29:17
sort of anxiety like when you meet
00:29:18
someone new about how they how they're
00:29:20
going to perceive me yeah I mean we were
00:29:22
we've been to
00:29:24
um myself and a couple of friends went
00:29:25
to and all you can eat last night
00:29:27
because um I think it's just to
00:29:30
celebrate being off home day not that we
00:29:31
really need and all you can eat but just
00:29:33
when I was here you know there was a lot
00:29:35
of people then I just
00:29:37
um I guess
00:29:38
part of my growth too I you know I
00:29:41
didn't feel totally comfortable there
00:29:42
because of you know the thoughts what do
00:29:44
people think me do they recognize me
00:29:46
blah blah
00:29:48
um so yeah there's definitely a lot of
00:29:50
that social anxiety but I'm hoping um
00:29:52
once you know get further along than
00:29:56
um a part of that guilt and shame will
00:29:57
also drop as well
00:29:59
um because there are times where I
00:30:00
thought you know now I'm on top of this
00:30:01
but when you find yourself I guess
00:30:03
looking at the ground because you don't
00:30:04
want people to look you in the light
00:30:05
when you're out for dinner you know that
00:30:06
there's a fair way to go you do so I'm
00:30:09
guessing um whenever people come up to
00:30:11
you it's always nice like no one's ever
00:30:12
going to come up to you and say anything
00:30:13
uh you know nasty to your face but can
00:30:16
you sort of sense where groups of people
00:30:18
are like Whispering or perhaps talking
00:30:20
about you
00:30:23
um I try not to because that'd be about
00:30:25
a paranoia creeping in fact
00:30:28
you know what I mean survive it I I
00:30:31
think when yeah yeah like you you can
00:30:33
tell when people look at you when you
00:30:34
recognizes stuff and if some people come
00:30:36
up and say say hi then I'm you know more
00:30:38
than happy to talk to them and stuff but
00:30:40
as I said well you know as you said you
00:30:42
don't really get people come up and
00:30:44
write the messages that they would on a
00:30:46
on a Facebook
00:30:47
um thread or something like that you
00:30:49
know because yeah because people are
00:30:51
keyboard Warriors and they won't come up
00:30:53
and say that to your face
00:30:54
um well very seldom anyway enough they
00:30:56
did it you know I'd quite happily take
00:30:58
it on the chin and appreciate their
00:30:59
feedback whilst trying to keep a cool
00:31:00
head yeah yeah what would you say so say
00:31:03
you're say you're at the um the the
00:31:05
buffet last night you know getting as
00:31:07
much um pork on your plate as you can
00:31:09
and someone comes up to you and says oh
00:31:11
you're you know you're a leopard can't
00:31:13
change their Sports you know you're no
00:31:15
good and you're never going to be
00:31:16
anything like how how would you react to
00:31:18
that if someone said that to your face
00:31:20
um
00:31:21
I'd have to drop a lot of my ego
00:31:24
and I guess Pride at the time and switch
00:31:26
from
00:31:28
um you know that victim mindset to
00:31:30
owning my stuff and and just say look I
00:31:32
have made a lot of mistakes over time
00:31:35
um but again that doesn't really happen
00:31:38
in real life it only happens over the
00:31:40
computer or Facebook or you know where
00:31:42
people try and have a go and then they
00:31:44
finally block you because they don't
00:31:45
want to tell it to your face in real
00:31:46
person
00:31:47
um it is frustrating but again that's um
00:31:50
work that I've got to do to you know
00:31:52
drop my ego and and make peace of where
00:31:54
I'm at and drop a lot of that guilt and
00:31:55
shame but I think I'm a you know
00:31:58
a long way on that Journey so I just
00:32:01
need to
00:32:03
keep
00:32:04
stepping for One Foot In Front the other
00:32:06
because it is it is [ __ ] hard
00:32:07
especially because I know that
00:32:09
I did have an ego over time and I didn't
00:32:11
think I was pretty cool
00:32:13
um yeah so again it's all part of that
00:32:15
removable remove removal of the false
00:32:18
identities that I've attached over time
00:32:19
yeah I I had um you know Dr Paul would I
00:32:23
yeah Jack knows about a lot more better
00:32:26
story than I do but um yeah so I had a
00:32:29
Dr Paul wood on the podcast a few weeks
00:32:30
ago he um he's uh he's got a few degrees
00:32:33
now he's written a couple of books he's
00:32:35
a motivational speaker but when he was
00:32:37
18 He murdered his drug dealer and spent
00:32:39
his entire 20s in jail
00:32:41
um and he talked to me about just how
00:32:44
hard it is to get like redemption in New
00:32:45
Zealand and how people just want to put
00:32:47
you on this box and not let you move on
00:32:50
um yeah hopefully that's not going to be
00:32:51
the same experience I mean what you've
00:32:53
done is very different to what he's done
00:32:55
um but yeah hopefully people can allow
00:32:57
you to prove yourself and um you know
00:32:59
reset and move forward
00:33:01
yeah I hope so you know there's I guess
00:33:04
in the social settings that I've been in
00:33:05
at the moment which have only been a few
00:33:08
um you know people have been nice but
00:33:09
yeah it is a hard place to recover
00:33:11
because
00:33:13
we do see such high standards not only
00:33:16
for ourselves but also for especially
00:33:18
people that make it in the public Arena
00:33:19
whether they be Sportsmen or whoever the
00:33:22
hell they are
00:33:23
um we expect them to stay at that level
00:33:25
of Excellence until they pretty much die
00:33:28
you know but we know that's impossible
00:33:30
because we're imperfect humans so
00:33:34
yes the game of life is pretty tough in
00:33:36
this country especially when you're
00:33:38
trying to come back from I guess Rock
00:33:41
Bottom suicidal thoughts or the path I
00:33:44
carve myself over time so trying to
00:33:46
create that new one is one where you
00:33:48
have to stay completely I guess
00:33:50
centered but also be a bit selfish in
00:33:54
terms of
00:33:57
in terms of putting myself out there
00:33:59
again to the public and stuff like that
00:34:01
even when you asked I was like oh [ __ ] I
00:34:03
don't know if I'm ready to do another
00:34:04
podcast but oh really
00:34:06
yeah but you're a great man yourself so
00:34:09
I guess um yeah I mean the first podcast
00:34:11
I did with you when people ask about the
00:34:14
gambling they're like how do you do it
00:34:15
and I'm like
00:34:17
the only way to get over a gambling
00:34:19
addiction is to
00:34:21
instant talk but also to
00:34:24
talk to those people that are close to
00:34:26
you because Secrets make you sick and
00:34:28
that's all gambling is one big secret so
00:34:30
the best thing that I did was to do that
00:34:31
first podcast view because it helped me
00:34:33
accountable to a wider group and a wider
00:34:36
Network and it sort of it definitely got
00:34:38
my I guess momentum up in terms of that
00:34:42
accountability yeah I'm so pleased your
00:34:45
dad and you were you were so um for
00:34:47
anyone that didn't hear that podcast it
00:34:48
was like maybe back in June or July and
00:34:50
you were so honest and you talked about
00:34:52
a lot of stuff like um selling your
00:34:54
World Cup medal for a couple of grand
00:34:55
and having twenty five thousand dollar
00:34:57
bets on horse races and stuff like that
00:34:59
and I remember you messaged me
00:35:01
afterwards the week the week or so after
00:35:02
it came out and uh it was a real nice
00:35:04
message you said um I think it was like
00:35:06
your mum or some other people had missed
00:35:07
you saying they heard it and it gave
00:35:09
them a new sort of appreciation or
00:35:10
understanding about how you ticked
00:35:13
yeah
00:35:15
yeah and I'm still getting to learn I
00:35:17
guess how I actually tick myself as well
00:35:20
um you know for so long
00:35:22
that identity of a rugby player in my
00:35:25
life was sort of created for me all I
00:35:26
had to do was put on my boots run out
00:35:29
there train and play rugby but apart
00:35:31
from that you know my days were put
00:35:32
together
00:35:33
um a lot of our food plans were put
00:35:35
together
00:35:37
um
00:35:38
so being able to I guess yeah as I said
00:35:40
carve this new path for myself that
00:35:42
doesn't have a lot of rugby attached to
00:35:44
it has been um yeah pretty challenging
00:35:46
but one one that's worth it because I
00:35:48
get to do it for myself and it's not you
00:35:50
know done by other people so it's um a
00:35:54
lot of hard work but yeah
00:35:55
so you're involved you're involved now
00:35:57
in a trust called the uh the broken
00:35:59
movement trust with um Jacob skelling
00:36:01
who we mentioned before what's the um
00:36:03
what's the gist of that trust for anyone
00:36:04
that doesn't know about it
00:36:06
um so just about is really just to help
00:36:08
people
00:36:09
who I guess have suffered or are or are
00:36:13
suffering
00:36:14
um from mental health addiction
00:36:17
um whatever it might look like I guess
00:36:19
our passion from it is driven from our
00:36:21
own experiences so obviously Jake's been
00:36:24
in a long leg in prison having to turn
00:36:25
his life around and me living in an
00:36:27
addiction for so long and um making the
00:36:30
choice to to change mine so we're trying
00:36:33
to get a few programs up and going into
00:36:35
2023 which
00:36:37
um
00:36:38
which help people learn tools that we
00:36:41
need in this day and age to I guess
00:36:43
survive away from
00:36:46
tools that we've used in the past that
00:36:47
no longer serve us like violence like
00:36:50
addiction
00:36:51
um sex whatever it might be so we run
00:36:54
these programs in the wairarapa when I
00:36:56
was involved in suicide prevention so we
00:36:59
have got the worlds moving and hopefully
00:37:01
we will get a few of those underway
00:37:03
early into 2023 to help our our men who
00:37:07
women and children who do struggle with
00:37:10
trauma whether that be historical or
00:37:12
present
00:37:13
yeah I mean there's there's a definite
00:37:16
Mental Health crisis at the moment isn't
00:37:17
it and I and I I think it's only going
00:37:19
to get worse in the next couple of years
00:37:20
as um you know the economy sort of turns
00:37:22
to shed a little bit more so it's good
00:37:24
that you guys are good you guys are
00:37:25
doing that and are offering this
00:37:27
platform
00:37:28
yeah well um big thing we talked about
00:37:31
is you know we used to be able to go
00:37:32
than that everyone knew their neighbor
00:37:33
and you spare to go to their neighbor if
00:37:35
you needed a cup of flour a cup of sugar
00:37:36
and I think a big thing that's been
00:37:39
removed
00:37:40
from part of our life other community
00:37:42
events and the wholesomeness that we
00:37:44
used to have within our communities and
00:37:46
I don't know whether it's technology or
00:37:50
you know we just get so caught up in our
00:37:51
own little world that it's either that
00:37:53
it's only our screen or what's in front
00:37:55
of us that matters that you know we
00:37:56
don't have the community events anymore
00:37:58
that's how we got to know who was in our
00:38:00
community and who we could trust and
00:38:01
what we could do but I just said you
00:38:03
know there's so many short-term
00:38:04
Pleasures that we can enjoy now whether
00:38:06
that be alcohol drags overeats we can
00:38:09
pretty much get everything on our
00:38:10
doorstep so we're going to Endeavor to
00:38:13
recreate that Community stuff so yeah
00:38:15
that connection to to self but also to a
00:38:18
wider Network yeah I think I think a lot
00:38:20
of us realize during the the various
00:38:22
lockdowns over the last couple of years
00:38:23
just how important that is and how much
00:38:24
you miss it when it's not the arrow
00:38:26
oh 100 yeah yeah you know you can't even
00:38:29
well I mean you used to walk past
00:38:31
someone around past someone and say
00:38:33
g'day to everyone you you ran past but
00:38:35
now so you know we're either looking at
00:38:37
our phones or looking at the ground
00:38:38
because we don't want to look the other
00:38:39
person on the eye and it's just yeah
00:38:40
total loss of connection over the years
00:38:41
yeah and it has um I've seen on your
00:38:44
Instagram stories you're um you go to
00:38:46
church a lot of the weekends now What's
00:38:47
um what role is Faith playing in your
00:38:49
life what what were you religious before
00:38:51
before you hit rock bottom or is this a
00:38:54
yeah yep I grew up um always believing
00:38:57
in Gods every time I
00:38:59
sort of read out for a game or you know
00:39:02
every time before I go to bed I'd say a
00:39:03
prayer I grew up in
00:39:05
um sort of a Catholic upper again
00:39:08
um so it's a little bit different to the
00:39:09
church I go to down here which is more
00:39:11
Christian faith
00:39:13
um and again it's just you know I
00:39:15
wouldn't say
00:39:16
um I'm a Bible bash or I'll force it on
00:39:18
anyone but it's just for me it's just
00:39:19
another safe space where I can grow and
00:39:22
I guess slip my guard down and um
00:39:25
find some Pace really
00:39:27
um yeah yeah do you think it's going to
00:39:29
continue being part of your life
00:39:31
yeah definitely yeah yeah I think so you
00:39:33
know I've met some really good people
00:39:35
through the church
00:39:37
um and as I said you know it's a space
00:39:38
for me where I can go on Sunday and
00:39:40
totally switch off and I guess
00:39:43
um wash away what's happened during the
00:39:45
week and start fresh for the upcoming
00:39:47
week
00:39:48
um
00:39:49
we didn't actually go last night so
00:39:50
probably get a slap on the hand today
00:39:53
yes because it sounds like you and I had
00:39:55
similar similar upbringings on the fact
00:39:57
that we're we're both um Catholic do you
00:39:59
suffer that Catholic guilt where you do
00:40:01
something bad and you just beat yourself
00:40:02
up more than most people yeah
00:40:08
that's why we've got to run like 10 or
00:40:11
20K to get over it oh God tell me about
00:40:13
it and what about what about work you
00:40:15
mentioned something before about being
00:40:16
in business now what are you what are
00:40:18
you doing
00:40:18
yeah so
00:40:20
um started a few other uh started a
00:40:22
little company with a few others called
00:40:24
GSS Employment Group
00:40:26
um so we help people
00:40:28
get into work pretty much we help I
00:40:30
guess fill gaps there our clients are
00:40:33
struggling to fill
00:40:35
um so yeah it's a pretty rewarding job
00:40:37
we started in sort of the middle of
00:40:39
October now we have sort of 40 to 50
00:40:41
staff under us so
00:40:43
um it's challenging but it's um
00:40:46
I love it you know you get to help
00:40:47
people get into work and then talk to
00:40:49
them on the daily talk to clients talk
00:40:51
to all different walks of life and we
00:40:53
get some interesting people through our
00:40:54
doors so I guess you know being able to
00:40:56
see people
00:40:59
from you know Brokenness into getting
00:41:02
employment and creating an earn for
00:41:04
their family to put um bread and butter
00:41:06
on the table which is it's pretty
00:41:09
expensive these days this is um it's
00:41:11
pretty rewarding yeah what about you
00:41:13
financially from this are you doing okay
00:41:14
now
00:41:19
it's going to be
00:41:21
um yeah again another test of patients
00:41:23
to I guess get out of debt and get back
00:41:26
into I guess some Financial Freedom
00:41:28
again but you know we're still looking
00:41:30
at a fair way to go yet uh or with the
00:41:32
court finds and things yeah court fines
00:41:34
and your other thing I've probably got
00:41:36
myself into about 350 okay I did over
00:41:39
time so just you know a little more
00:41:42
okay yeah
00:41:44
gambling I told you
00:41:47
yeah so like you know oh [ __ ] were you
00:41:52
yeah I was pretty [ __ ] out but as I said
00:41:53
like
00:41:55
it didn't matter whether I won a million
00:41:58
or two million dollars it was never
00:41:59
going to be enough you know because it
00:42:02
was never enough you know one bag was
00:42:03
never enough too bad it's never enough
00:42:05
you know a hundred thousand was never
00:42:06
enough so it's just
00:42:08
I was just that hurt child and earn a
00:42:10
Critic always wanting more or thinking
00:42:12
he needed more
00:42:13
um I mean in fact you know now I know
00:42:15
what the value of money is 100 100 bucks
00:42:17
is is quite tasty these days so it could
00:42:20
get me a long way but in the past you
00:42:22
know that just used to go down the drain
00:42:23
because I was always chasing more than
00:42:25
yes it was not needed so I'm guessing um
00:42:28
say five to ten years ago success for
00:42:30
you would have looked like um you know
00:42:32
being an all black being a successful
00:42:33
all black scoring tries and making a
00:42:35
[ __ ] ton of money overseas how would you
00:42:37
define like success for Zach Guilford
00:42:39
now and moving forward
00:42:41
um
00:42:43
success for me getting out of bed making
00:42:46
my beard going for a run and attacking
00:42:49
the day and helping people
00:42:51
um yeah if I can help myself first then
00:42:55
I you know I have got a big heart and I
00:42:57
love helping other people so being able
00:42:59
to do that whether that's in the
00:43:00
employment game
00:43:02
um in the community with the broker
00:43:03
movement trusts or still on the field
00:43:05
with the rugby boys
00:43:07
um I've got some pretty big well some
00:43:09
pretty good platforms that I can
00:43:10
leverage off and and help within the
00:43:12
community so success does look a lot
00:43:15
different
00:43:16
um used to look like a hat trick or you
00:43:18
know going out there and
00:43:19
playing the game I love to I guess
00:43:23
um fulfill what was my passion at the
00:43:25
time and these days I have you know
00:43:26
other avenues to give back which is
00:43:28
which is also which is also really
00:43:31
rewarding and it's just keeping that
00:43:32
perspective you know and not trying to
00:43:34
get too far ahead of myself yeah it's
00:43:36
good for the soul I guess I mean it
00:43:38
looks very different but it's also
00:43:40
probably more rewarding in a lot of ways
00:43:42
yeah it is it is more rewarding like I
00:43:44
think
00:43:45
yeah a lot of that
00:43:47
enjoyment used to get from professional
00:43:49
rugby
00:43:51
a lot of that pleasure come from the
00:43:52
headlines if you know what I mean seeing
00:43:54
my name in the paper for doing well and
00:43:56
that's all all ego driven stuff
00:43:59
um I already knew I was good at rugby
00:44:01
don't need to read the paper to to um
00:44:05
I was always the one on stuff trying to
00:44:08
get that validated seeing how close it
00:44:09
was to making the Rugby World Cup team
00:44:11
and listening to reading all the
00:44:13
comments and stuff and I guess just
00:44:14
being able to switch off from that and
00:44:16
focus you know what's actually what
00:44:18
actually is in front of me and what
00:44:19
actually is important is um is pretty
00:44:21
cool yeah now I had um Sir John Kerwin
00:44:24
on the uh the podcast
00:44:25
um a few months ago and uh we after we
00:44:28
finished recording we were talking about
00:44:30
you and he because this was after I
00:44:31
spoke to you and he was asking some
00:44:33
questions about you and he said to me
00:44:35
something like um the hard thing for
00:44:36
Zach will be getting over his own guilt
00:44:38
and shame moving forward yeah how do you
00:44:41
feel about that
00:44:42
uh that was probably the hardest thing
00:44:44
hence why you know I always hid behind
00:44:47
the alcohol and drug for so long and
00:44:49
didn't and not until I had my actual
00:44:52
rock bottom that I really came clean
00:44:54
about the gambling because I had to
00:44:57
um so that was a lot of the guilt and
00:44:58
shame you know I never ever wanted
00:45:00
anyone to know that I was the poor all
00:45:01
black who was trying to chase his ass
00:45:03
gambling to sort of get by and that's
00:45:05
why the cycle continued for 10 plus
00:45:08
years you know was because I didn't want
00:45:10
anyone to know because I was hiding
00:45:11
beneath that guilt and shame
00:45:13
um
00:45:14
but I'm definitely not there yet you
00:45:15
know as I said going out for dinner and
00:45:17
hanging my head down because I don't
00:45:18
want anyone to um to recognize me
00:45:21
um tells me I've got heaps more work to
00:45:23
do but I know I'm a long way from where
00:45:24
I was
00:45:25
you know this time last year or when we
00:45:27
last spoke Dom so it's um yeah it is a
00:45:30
big part and probably the biggest part
00:45:31
oh good on you oh no no it's like a day
00:45:33
by day thing but dream scenario five
00:45:36
years from now how's your life looking
00:45:39
um Helena what do you eat
00:45:42
33 33. see on the on the big scheme of
00:45:45
things you're still you're still young
00:45:47
eh I'm 40 I'm 49 and uh so I'm old but I
00:45:51
I I say to people I still consider
00:45:53
myself young in a lot of way it's like
00:45:54
if I get to live to 80 it means I've
00:45:56
still got 30 odd years left so I'm I'm
00:45:58
just getting started so if you're yeah
00:46:00
if you think like if your lifespan like
00:46:02
a sports game you're still you're still
00:46:04
like in the first half
00:46:06
yeah and that's what I've got to keep
00:46:08
reminding myself
00:46:09
um because going through my 20s you know
00:46:11
I'm like
00:46:12
always remember thinking [ __ ] I've dug a
00:46:14
big hole here I'm not going to be able
00:46:15
to get out of it the only way I'm going
00:46:16
to be able to get out of it is by
00:46:18
gambling more or just you know by
00:46:20
getting out of it with a big win and
00:46:22
that that was sort of how I've viewed
00:46:24
myself my whole way through my 20s and
00:46:26
then when I camped my 30s I didn't have
00:46:28
another contract to pick up because I
00:46:29
[ __ ] everything up so I guess being
00:46:31
able to keep that big turn picture alive
00:46:34
and not getting caught up in the moment
00:46:36
with impatience will be massive for me
00:46:39
because as you said I still have a long
00:46:40
way to go mainly in the first half the
00:46:42
first
00:46:43
the first well probably about out of the
00:46:46
first third now I don't know if I'm
00:46:47
gonna look for a hundred ten minutes
00:46:49
left in the first half
00:46:50
yeah so that's just keeping that big
00:46:53
picture goal but for me it still if I'm
00:46:55
still I it's one day at a time but I'd
00:46:58
still like to be to be sober and staying
00:47:00
away from the things that have brought
00:47:01
down my life because I know if I can do
00:47:03
that then that's
00:47:05
um I will be pretty successful in some
00:47:08
way I don't know what that'll look like
00:47:09
but I think hopefully with peace that's
00:47:12
how I'll be successful yeah yeah are you
00:47:15
see are you seeing a therapist or anyone
00:47:18
um not at the moment
00:47:19
yeah yeah I have done um but yeah as I
00:47:23
said you know probation uh didn't have
00:47:25
the capabilities to help me see a
00:47:27
therapist I'm obviously chipping away
00:47:29
ate a fair bit of um personal stuff to
00:47:32
help get a little bit of Financial
00:47:34
Freedom again one day so um
00:47:37
yeah
00:47:38
I can't afford it pretty much but um I
00:47:42
want to see now I was seeing a um a
00:47:45
therapist for my gambling but I've sort
00:47:47
of
00:47:48
clock that program for now so um
00:47:51
yeah that finished about three or four
00:47:53
weeks ago yeah that's the hard thing
00:47:55
about therapy yeah I think there's a lot
00:47:56
of people that could get a lot of good
00:47:57
out of it but um the cost can be quite
00:47:58
prohibitive for a lot of people yeah and
00:48:01
it's about finding the right one as well
00:48:02
like for me I did a really fun the right
00:48:05
person who I could open up to who I
00:48:08
could open up to until earlier this or
00:48:10
to about March April this year and that
00:48:12
was sort of 13 14 years of trying to
00:48:14
find a therapist that I could connect
00:48:16
with and it wasn't until I found out
00:48:17
that I had ADHD and that I could
00:48:19
actually connect with this particular
00:48:21
person who had diagnosed me of ADHD that
00:48:23
you know I thought [ __ ] you know there's
00:48:25
some real benefits here of therapy
00:48:27
has it helped so you got the um ADHD
00:48:30
diagnosis earlier this year around about
00:48:31
the same time as you um quit all your
00:48:33
vices
00:48:35
um how has have you learned to sort of
00:48:37
coexist with it or what have you learned
00:48:39
about yourself with ADHD and how it
00:48:40
makes you operate
00:48:42
um
00:48:44
it brought a lot of acceptance
00:48:47
um finally I had ADHD because for so
00:48:49
long
00:48:51
but I don't even think of myself as an
00:48:53
ADHD guy because I wasn't that
00:48:54
hyperactive guy as such a lot of the
00:48:57
time I could be but I didn't see myself
00:48:59
as that guy yeah if you know what I mean
00:49:00
I was the more inattentive just playing
00:49:03
100 million stories over and over in my
00:49:06
head
00:49:07
um
00:49:07
but I definitely made me accept who I
00:49:10
was because so long I just thought I was
00:49:11
a [ __ ] and I was like just beat myself
00:49:13
up with that inner critics you know I'm
00:49:15
like why do I do this why do why am I so
00:49:17
impulsive why do I have this anger what
00:49:19
but when I found out I had ADHD it made
00:49:22
me make peace with a lot of that and
00:49:23
when I or if I act in a particular way
00:49:26
now I can sort of
00:49:28
I know where it's coming from yeah yeah
00:49:30
you want me are you on meds are you on
00:49:32
Concerta or Ritalin or anything yeah I'm
00:49:33
on the Concerta
00:49:35
um so 36 Megs a day of that but um yeah
00:49:38
I sort of changed between 1836 Meats
00:49:41
just depending on how I'm feeling that
00:49:43
day yeah
00:49:45
yeah oh that's good it seems like you're
00:49:47
in a really good place
00:49:50
it's a lot of work to be done but I know
00:49:52
there's a lot of work that's been done
00:49:54
also so as I said it's a simple formula
00:49:56
that I can make easy or hard for myself
00:49:59
it's just to stay away from the things
00:50:01
that it brought me to my knees during my
00:50:03
life and that's gambling alcohol and
00:50:05
drugs
00:50:06
um and if I can stay away from those
00:50:08
along with you know helping people
00:50:10
within the community then I'm fulfilling
00:50:12
my purpose but yeah yeah good on you all
00:50:14
right you mentioned before like that
00:50:16
your financial black hole like who do
00:50:18
you owe the 250 300 000 whatever who do
00:50:20
you go there to yeah who do I not
00:50:25
well you don't owe me anything
00:50:27
not yet
00:50:31
no I'm joking
00:50:35
I just financial institutions over times
00:50:38
you know friends family
00:50:41
um yeah as I said it was 10 years of
00:50:43
just
00:50:44
thinking that I could work myself out of
00:50:46
a rabbit hole that I never could so
00:50:49
um to slowly be doing that now inch by
00:50:51
inch is again a massive test of patients
00:50:54
but I know there's just no other way
00:50:55
yeah that's a stressful way to live your
00:50:58
life
00:50:59
yeah it sucked and it did suck for a
00:51:01
long time but it's slowly getting easier
00:51:03
yeah yeah you seem like you're um you
00:51:06
seem right now like it's just I know
00:51:08
we're in different locations and I'm
00:51:09
just looking at you on my screen but um
00:51:10
you seem you seem peaceful it seems like
00:51:13
you've got a like a fair amount of inner
00:51:15
peace at the moment
00:51:17
yeah a fair amount and a piece and I
00:51:19
guess just also
00:51:21
having some perspective on life and
00:51:23
knowing where I'm hopefully again for
00:51:27
for a better way of putting it if you
00:51:29
know what I mean so I've just made peace
00:51:31
that I can't control what's going to
00:51:32
happen in the future I can't control
00:51:33
what's happened in the past all I can do
00:51:35
is live in the now and try and put one
00:51:37
foot in front of the other and um
00:51:40
yeah I mean sometimes you know it's a
00:51:42
it's a complete bore to the life that I
00:51:44
used to live but I know that there's no
00:51:48
finding peace down the up down the
00:51:50
rabbit hole that I was down previously
00:51:51
so
00:51:53
um yeah this is it for now and it's all
00:51:56
good yeah so I love that um that motto
00:51:59
and you've said it a couple of times
00:52:00
about putting one foot in front of the
00:52:02
other it's like a running metaphor as
00:52:03
well it's like when things get dark in a
00:52:05
running race you just you know keep
00:52:06
doing that and you know eventually
00:52:08
you'll make it to the Finish Line
00:52:10
um yeah it is it is a good one I think
00:52:12
uh like it could be daunting to you for
00:52:14
you to think about like the next 40 50
00:52:16
60 years without any I don't know an
00:52:19
inverted Converse fun
00:52:21
um but it's like if you just take it day
00:52:22
by day that's probably the only way to
00:52:24
take it right
00:52:25
yeah well that was what I considered fun
00:52:28
in my life for so long so
00:52:30
yeah I'm not gonna
00:52:32
um I'm not going to paint it like it's
00:52:34
like it's easy to do pretty much flip
00:52:36
your life on the head and change the
00:52:37
whole script
00:52:38
um but it's something well worth doing
00:52:39
if you know what I mean because
00:52:42
no one deserves to live in pain whether
00:52:44
it be in the Iron Head or for something
00:52:46
they'll put through so to be able to
00:52:47
flip the script and and change and
00:52:50
rewrite rewrite the narrative is
00:52:52
something pretty powerful and I respect
00:52:54
anyone anyone that um
00:52:56
that is doing that currently or has done
00:52:58
it yeah no good for you you seem really
00:53:00
in touch with who you are as a person
00:53:01
now are you quite emotional these days
00:53:03
like when was the last time you cried
00:53:05
can you remember
00:53:07
um what is I cried on my dad's birthday
00:53:09
which was uh
00:53:11
12 days ago so you know I sat on the
00:53:14
toilet in the morning and then tears
00:53:16
started coming out then that never I
00:53:18
never used to cry if you know what I
00:53:19
mean
00:53:20
um and I don't try and cry these days
00:53:22
but you know for I guess be more in
00:53:25
touch and removing a few identities and
00:53:28
mass it does allow those emotions to
00:53:30
flow a little bit more um I would like
00:53:33
to cry more at times but I guess it's
00:53:36
all part of the journey and um and
00:53:38
moving forward but yeah the tears
00:53:40
definitely do come a little bit more now
00:53:41
which is I guess is
00:53:44
is pleasing because I can feel again
00:53:45
yeah yeah yeah you've got those emotions
00:53:48
and um you can experience them and all
00:53:51
their and all their messiness and
00:53:53
whatever
00:53:55
um oh that's that's really sad about
00:53:56
your dad yeah I I don't think um I mean
00:54:00
I'm oh God I'm not a psychologist or
00:54:01
anything but I don't think you can
00:54:02
underestimate the um you know the role
00:54:04
his death at such a young age and also
00:54:07
how it happened has played in the rest
00:54:08
of your life
00:54:09
yeah yeah I guess
00:54:13
yeah that was it was hectic you know
00:54:15
light it up for a middle and then five
00:54:16
minutes later seeing your dad did in the
00:54:18
stands and it was like [ __ ] and I sort
00:54:20
of made that decision the subconscious
00:54:22
scene sort of consciously you know when
00:54:24
he passed away I got I got angry and mad
00:54:26
at the world so I thought you know dad's
00:54:28
the only one that can tell me what to do
00:54:29
now he's now he's not around no cunt's
00:54:31
gonna tell me what to do and excuse my
00:54:33
French I knew I should I shouldn't use
00:54:34
that word but that's how I felt at the
00:54:36
time if you know what I mean yeah yeah
00:54:37
and being able to recognize that now is
00:54:40
pretty pleasing as well because it shows
00:54:42
that there's some growth and I am
00:54:45
recognizing what's gone before me and
00:54:47
the role that it played because it helps
00:54:50
me make make peace with it I guess to
00:54:53
yeah put it in a nutshell yeah that's
00:54:55
really cool if he was if he was sitting
00:54:57
with you now what do you think he'd say
00:54:58
about about who you are today
00:55:01
um
00:55:03
you'd probably give me a pretty strong
00:55:05
slap across the ears at first but uh I
00:55:09
think you know also just to keep going
00:55:12
um keep continuing on this path that I'm
00:55:14
on and keep striving to leave the
00:55:17
[ __ ] behind
00:55:18
um he was a man of
00:55:20
I guess
00:55:22
not many words but he he put it straight
00:55:24
up and honestly and I think that's how
00:55:25
he would tell me today wouldn't
00:55:28
um I guess
00:55:29
putting Fury wrapping or cotton coated
00:55:32
at all to just be you know to keep
00:55:33
pressing on the Junior on today and um
00:55:36
let's keep my head up yeah I reckon I'd
00:55:38
be proud of where you are today
00:55:40
yeah thank you brother yeah and and and
00:55:42
last question what would you what would
00:55:44
your message be to anyone that's um
00:55:46
maybe like listening to this or watching
00:55:49
this right now at their own uh version
00:55:51
of Rock Bottom like uh maybe it's with
00:55:53
addiction or gambling or whatever it
00:55:55
happens to happens to be what would your
00:55:57
message be to those people
00:55:59
so please keep searching for the light
00:56:01
because there are times where I couldn't
00:56:04
see a lot of light and I just I felt
00:56:05
like giving up in the one time that I
00:56:08
did give up and I decided to you know
00:56:09
that I don't want to live anymore my
00:56:11
life to be over and I tried to commit
00:56:12
suicide when I did come back to
00:56:14
Consciousness and around from that I
00:56:16
realized that I didn't want to die I
00:56:18
just wanted the pain to stop
00:56:20
um so definitely keep searching for that
00:56:22
light it is possible to rewrite the
00:56:24
narrative even if you have to do it by
00:56:25
yourself
00:56:27
um we all have a lot more strip that
00:56:29
that we think we have at times and if
00:56:32
you can keep searching for that light
00:56:33
and keep putting One Foot In Front Of
00:56:35
Another The Narrative will change and
00:56:37
you will create a story that is better
00:56:40
than the [ __ ] you've lived in in the
00:56:41
past it won't happen overnight it might
00:56:43
not even happen within a year but it
00:56:45
will happen I love that I love that it's
00:56:48
probably a good place to end it really
00:56:50
good to catch up man I really appreciate
00:56:51
your time
00:56:52
um thanks for being so open and
00:56:54
transparent with your journey I'm
00:56:56
pleased you're in a good place now and
00:56:59
yeah it's something you've said a few
00:57:00
times during this hour you know about
00:57:02
putting one foot in front of the other
00:57:03
and I think it's a good motto and uh
00:57:05
yeah mate I just wish you a very merry
00:57:06
Christmas happy 2023 and um onwards and
00:57:09
upwards eh yeah I appreciate it tell me
00:57:12
you're a good man and um appreciate you
00:57:13
brother so thank you yeah love your work
00:57:16
mate talk soon enjoy brother thank you
00:57:18
please help
00:57:20
[Music]
