00:00:05
Ben Padua, welcome to my podcast.
00:00:08
>> Yeah, thanks Dom. We were just um you,
00:00:11
by the way, you you bought me a gift.
00:00:12
You bought me a crayfish, which is
00:00:14
wonderful. And uh it's freshly caught.
00:00:16
>> Yeah. So, we went out diving uh late
00:00:19
last night and we got out of the water
00:00:21
maybe just after midnight. Um yeah, got
00:00:24
our limit of craze and got a few kina
00:00:27
for another um actually content creator
00:00:30
that's up here in Tamaki. Uh so yeah,
00:00:33
he's going to be doing something with uh
00:00:36
is it
00:00:38
um the rugby from USA. So right
00:00:42
>> who's the content creator?
00:00:43
>> Uh Louis Davis.
00:00:45
>> I've had him on the podcast as well.
00:00:46
>> Oh yes. Yes.
00:00:47
>> Make him He's always in the ocean. Get
00:00:50
him Make him get his own crayfish.
00:00:52
>> Yeah. Oh, he was in he was in Tamaki and
00:00:54
then he put a post up um any any divers
00:00:58
that can get some some ka or one can
00:01:02
anyways. Um so yeah.
00:01:04
>> Amazing. And you while you went to the
00:01:06
car to get the crayfish, um your wife
00:01:08
Nikki told me that you're real nervous.
00:01:10
She said she's never seen you this
00:01:11
nervous. She said you were nervous
00:01:13
yesterday about doing the podcast.
00:01:15
>> Yeah. Um
00:01:16
>> what's up?
00:01:17
>> I don't know. I just I just think this
00:01:19
is a big deal, bro. Um,
00:01:21
>> she told also told me you didn't even
00:01:22
know who I was.
00:01:26
>> I Yeah, I heard of you on on radio and
00:01:29
stuff like that. But yeah, um I don't
00:01:33
know, just seen some of the names that
00:01:34
you've interviewed over the over the
00:01:36
time and yeah, I think that this is a
00:01:38
pretty pretty big deal and you know, I'm
00:01:41
pretty honored to be honest.
00:01:42
>> Oh man. Well, I'm honored to have you
00:01:43
here as well.
00:01:45
>> So, first up, um, who is Ben Padua?
00:01:49
Um, so
00:01:52
I was born and bread in Puko. Um, yeah,
00:01:56
just born on the dark side and grew up
00:01:59
over there. Um,
00:02:03
yeah, currently a dairy farmer in the
00:02:06
South Wat
00:02:08
um family man. So, got my beautiful wife
00:02:11
who's here with me today and got three
00:02:14
girls. uh my my daughter Sam who's 3
00:02:17
years old and our two older girls who
00:02:20
are currently up here in in Oakland uh
00:02:23
studying at university. So yeah.
00:02:25
>> Awesome. You seem happy and content.
00:02:28
>> Yeah, life is is pretty good at the
00:02:30
moment. It's pretty hectic, but
00:02:32
>> yeah, I I think if it if it wasn't, I'll
00:02:34
probably be getting myself in trouble.
00:02:37
>> Did you like say say 20 years ago, did
00:02:39
you ever imagine life could be as good
00:02:40
as what it is now?
00:02:41
>> Oh, no way. No way. Um, yeah. So,
00:02:48
oh, never thought that I would be here,
00:02:52
>> to be honest.
00:02:54
>> Let's go back. Um, yeah. So, how old are
00:02:56
you now?
00:02:57
>> Um, 30,
00:02:59
>> right?
00:02:59
>> Yeah. 30.
00:03:00
>> Didn't you win Young Farmer? You're not
00:03:02
that young.
00:03:02
>> Yeah.
00:03:03
>> Um, so the the cut off date is 31 for
00:03:07
young for young, bro. So, I'm still in
00:03:09
the bracket at the moment. just just
00:03:11
lived
00:03:13
>> so 30 now. Okay. So, um paint a picture
00:03:15
of those um yeah early years in Pokoi.
00:03:18
>> M
00:03:20
um so yeah grew up in in dysfunction
00:03:23
surrounded um and born into into the
00:03:26
gangs and stuff like that. Um but you
00:03:30
know what
00:03:34
Faro was was awesome, bro. Um I my mom,
00:03:38
you know, even though she had her
00:03:40
struggles, you know, she really done
00:03:42
what she could uh in in the upbringing.
00:03:45
Um you know, to try and provide for for
00:03:48
us, she was she was on her own and she
00:03:51
had all of all of well myself and and my
00:03:54
siblings to try and put Kai on the
00:03:56
table. So she was she was pretty hard
00:03:58
worker.
00:03:59
>> Um
00:04:00
>> how many siblings?
00:04:01
>> So
00:04:03
nine of us.
00:04:04
>> Yeah.
00:04:04
>> Yeah. in total. Um, but you know, all of
00:04:07
us were sort of I never knew my my older
00:04:10
brother until he was 14, 15.
00:04:14
>> Yeah. Is when I sort of met my older
00:04:15
brother for the first time. Um, he lived
00:04:18
with our our biological father. And
00:04:22
yeah, I grew up with my mom, my older
00:04:24
sister, and and my younger siblings. And
00:04:27
yeah, so my sister, yeah, she
00:04:31
she done a lot of mahi while with with
00:04:34
us siblings anyway when mom was at work
00:04:37
and stuff like that. So
00:04:39
>> did you do you have a relationship with
00:04:40
your dad or much of a relationship?
00:04:42
>> Not at all. I didn't know my father
00:04:44
growing up.
00:04:45
>> Uh he left before I was born and
00:04:48
I've actually got another brother, a
00:04:51
half brother, and we were both the same
00:04:53
age. So
00:04:54
>> yeah, put two and two together. He
00:04:57
jumped the fence.
00:04:58
>> Yeah.
00:04:59
>> Um and yeah, so
00:05:03
yeah, never knew my dad um until four or
00:05:08
five years ago.
00:05:09
>> Yeah. I sort of went on this journey of
00:05:12
self-discovery and you know that was
00:05:14
sort of missing link for me
00:05:17
>> and you know I heard all the stories
00:05:19
sort of about my dad growing up you know
00:05:21
that he was a bad man and stuff like
00:05:23
that and he was horrible etc and you
00:05:26
know I
00:05:28
that was the only picture I could paint
00:05:29
of him and I wanted to know him myself
00:05:33
so when I was old enough and yeah with
00:05:36
the help of my wife actually um was able
00:05:39
to find him in Fang Hospital and I sort
00:05:42
of documented it on on YouTube. Um,
00:05:46
meeting him for the very first time and
00:05:49
yeah, he wasn't in a good good way. He
00:05:52
had heart conditions and and stuff like
00:05:54
that. Um, he just finished having a
00:05:57
stint put in and and whatnot and yeah,
00:06:00
so unfortunately that was the last time
00:06:03
I got to meet him. Um,
00:06:07
oh no, actually there's one more time
00:06:09
after that at the hospital and yeah,
00:06:11
that was pretty much it after after
00:06:13
that. Um, he ended up passing away not
00:06:17
long after. So
00:06:21
>> you mentioned before um the gang
00:06:23
involvement and stuff. So was was your
00:06:24
mom connected to the gangs or was she
00:06:26
just seeing gang members or
00:06:28
>> um so my whole far I so my whole family
00:06:33
all all in in the gangs and
00:06:36
yeah like my uncles and all all my role
00:06:40
models growing up uh were were all in
00:06:43
the gangs and then had my stepdad uh who
00:06:47
pretty much brought brought me up. He he
00:06:50
was in the in the black pal as well.
00:06:52
>> Uh who my mom was was with. And yeah, I
00:06:57
seen a whole lot of
00:06:59
ugly stuff. But you know, on the other
00:07:02
hand, also seen
00:07:04
um I guess
00:07:06
yeah, some love. Um
00:07:12
>> what sort of ugly stuff?
00:07:14
um like the the the drugs, the alcohol,
00:07:19
the party life, um the domestic violence
00:07:23
and stuff like that, family violence,
00:07:25
all all that sort of ugliness. Um
00:07:29
you know, when that stuff wasn't around,
00:07:32
it was actually pretty good.
00:07:34
>> Yeah.
00:07:35
>> When when the when the drugs and all
00:07:37
that weren't in the picture and alcohol,
00:07:39
for sure.
00:07:40
>> Alcohol was probably the bigger one. Um,
00:07:43
yeah. So, when those things went in in
00:07:46
the picture, things were actually, you
00:07:48
know, pretty good.
00:07:51
>> It's it's a rough start, eh?
00:07:53
>> Yeah, it is.
00:07:54
>> You're on the back foot immediately.
00:07:56
>> Yeah. And when you grow up in that
00:07:58
environment, you just think it's normal.
00:07:59
>> Well, it's all you know.
00:08:01
>> Yeah. So, that's all
00:08:03
>> that's all I pretty much knew growing
00:08:05
up. And I was sort of I had some some
00:08:08
good memories in my upbringing as well,
00:08:12
especially with my uncle um as gang
00:08:16
member and stuff like that uh for my 8th
00:08:19
birthday come pick me up from school
00:08:20
with some of my mates and took us out to
00:08:23
KFC, you know. So those are some of my
00:08:25
sort of earlier memories um of some of
00:08:28
my role models, you know. So,
00:08:34
>> it's funny that that st stand stands out
00:08:36
cuz um you know being picked up from
00:08:38
school and going to KFC you know I
00:08:41
suppose if you've had like a like a I
00:08:43
don't know like a privileged upbringing
00:08:45
like me that's just one of those things
00:08:46
that you may not even remember but for
00:08:48
you it's a foundational memory.
00:08:50
>> Yeah, I remember it quite vividly like
00:08:52
Yeah. Like always used to deal.
00:08:54
>> Yeah.
00:08:55
>> Yeah. Um and you know like poverty is is
00:09:00
a massive thing you know
00:09:02
>> and that brings so much dysfunction with
00:09:04
it e so yeah when I got that that day I
00:09:09
felt like I was on top of the world to
00:09:11
be honest
00:09:14
got to go to KFC and my uncle took me to
00:09:17
the $2 shop and stuff like that and then
00:09:19
um yeah got to grab me a few few toys
00:09:22
and I think I got me a gun little toy a
00:09:25
gun and and whatnot and went back to
00:09:27
school.
00:09:28
>> Were Were you Were you um Were you a
00:09:30
good kid?
00:09:31
>> Oh, [ __ ] I probably couldn't probably
00:09:34
not
00:09:37
probably not to be honest. Um yeah, I
00:09:40
was
00:09:43
bit selective here.
00:09:45
>> I think a lot of kids like that. But did
00:09:47
did you know did you know right from
00:09:49
wrong?
00:09:50
>> Um
00:09:52
I knew what I knew. M
00:09:53
>> hey I that's all I knew. I didn't really
00:09:57
know whether it was right or wrong.
00:09:59
Whatever that I was doing I was doing
00:10:01
cuz I seen it.
00:10:02
>> Um and yeah I guess you become a product
00:10:06
of of the environment that you're in. So
00:10:09
you know whatever that you see you end
00:10:11
up becoming that. So
00:10:14
>> when did you start going off the rails?
00:10:16
>> Not when you getting in trouble at at
00:10:18
primary school or anything. I actually
00:10:19
struggled at school. Um
00:10:22
>> learning or
00:10:22
>> Yeah, I I struggled with learning cuz I
00:10:25
couldn't read or write. Um
00:10:28
so yeah, school for me was real
00:10:30
difficult
00:10:31
>> and I I felt like I
00:10:34
become the class clown so that people
00:10:38
didn't know that I had a reading
00:10:41
disability or learning disability or
00:10:43
anything like that. So I just played up
00:10:46
um and sort of played it off, you know.
00:10:49
So
00:10:50
>> yeah, I didn't get people didn't get
00:10:53
smart or anything.
00:10:55
>> Yeah.
00:10:56
>> You get in trouble at school. Class
00:10:58
class clown is um you generally a
00:11:00
pathway to trouble.
00:11:02
>> Yeah. Um I got suspended and expelled
00:11:05
from from school.
00:11:06
>> Yeah.
00:11:07
>> What for?
00:11:08
>> Fighting.
00:11:09
>> Yeah. For fighting. And so got expelled
00:11:12
from Narawaha High School uh for
00:11:15
fighting and cuz from Puki mom moved us
00:11:20
down to the Watau uh to Naraja and I
00:11:24
went to went to school there. It was
00:11:26
cool. Um made some really good friends
00:11:29
there but yeah just struggled e
00:11:34
>> especially when you can't read or write
00:11:36
it's real hard. Math math was probably
00:11:38
my best subject to be honest. I knew how
00:11:40
to count. And
00:11:42
>> can Can you read all right now?
00:11:44
>> I can now. I probably learned about five
00:11:46
years ago.
00:11:47
>> Unreal. Really?
00:11:49
>> Yeah.
00:11:49
>> How hard is it? I can't imagine like
00:11:51
learning to do that stuff as um like a
00:11:53
grown ass man in your 20s.
00:11:54
>> Yeah. So, oh, I was fortunate enough
00:11:57
through um the primary itto stuff which
00:12:00
is course to do with uh dairy farming
00:12:03
and and farming and through that I was
00:12:05
able to get some support. Um, so they
00:12:08
were able to get me like a laptop and
00:12:10
and a tutor and and stuff like that. Um,
00:12:12
they helped me learn to read and write.
00:12:16
Uh, which was which was crazy. And and I
00:12:18
was going to course one day and and the
00:12:20
teacher was like, "Oh, can you read this
00:12:22
paragraph out?" I was like, "Um,
00:12:27
no, I can't." She was like, "What? It's
00:12:31
just that little paragraph. Can you just
00:12:32
read it out, please?" It's like, oh, I
00:12:34
can't do it. was like, "Yeah." And then
00:12:37
>> is that humiliating or
00:12:39
>> It was um you know, it was quite hard.
00:12:42
Uh and then from that moment she was
00:12:45
like, "No, we can get you help." Like if
00:12:47
you really want help, we we'll get it
00:12:49
for you.
00:12:50
>> And so, yeah, the my tutor and also my
00:12:53
um training advisor at that time, yeah,
00:12:56
put in the work and got me the support
00:12:58
that I needed to start my journey of
00:13:01
learning to read and write. And yeah,
00:13:03
now I can I can read.
00:13:05
>> Good for you. Have you read a book?
00:13:07
>> Um I haven't read a whole book.
00:13:12
>> Um yeah, my
00:13:13
>> You can though. You can read a book.
00:13:15
>> I can.
00:13:15
>> Yeah.
00:13:16
>> Awesome.
00:13:17
>> And sure, that's cool.
00:13:19
>> Uh yeah, probably on on the path of
00:13:22
actually writing my own.
00:13:24
>> No way.
00:13:25
>> Yeah.
00:13:26
>> Excellent. Well, I'll be the first to
00:13:27
buy a copy. So,
00:13:29
>> yeah. Um,
00:13:32
so when you go to school,
00:13:35
so so all you know is um the household
00:13:37
that you're brought up in, but then you
00:13:39
go to school, you meet other kids, you
00:13:40
have friends, you go to their houses.
00:13:43
>> Is that is that um
00:13:47
for you? Like is that sort of a moment
00:13:48
where you realize, okay, my household's
00:13:50
not normal, this is normal?
00:13:53
>> Yeah, I I've shared this before actually
00:13:56
and you know I
00:14:00
I was about maybe around seven eight
00:14:02
somewhere there and I got the first got
00:14:05
my first opportunity to go stay at a
00:14:07
mate's house and yeah we went there and
00:14:11
um was a sleepover
00:14:15
and yeah I got to see a whole new world
00:14:18
e so his dad was a was a police officer
00:14:21
his mom was a hard worker and real
00:14:23
loving family and you know I was friends
00:14:26
with with him and his and his brother.
00:14:28
We all went to school together and yeah,
00:14:31
I just got to see a whole different
00:14:32
picture to to what I seen in in our
00:14:34
household. Uh which was a whole lot of
00:14:37
love and and um
00:14:40
I guess a present father, you know, and
00:14:43
I actually felt jealous of it. I felt
00:14:46
envious about that. um to the point
00:14:49
where you know I sort of started hating
00:14:52
on my mate and um yeah got off to some
00:14:56
dumb [ __ ] and ended up um
00:15:00
yeah doing
00:15:03
I guess wrong by by them
00:15:05
>> what what did you do? What's the dumb
00:15:07
[ __ ]
00:15:07
>> Uh so I ended up robbing their house
00:15:10
because I felt jealous of that
00:15:12
relationship that he had with his father
00:15:14
because I I didn't have it. Um, yeah,
00:15:18
>> that's heartbreaking.
00:15:19
>> Yeah. So, I I always wanted a wanted a
00:15:22
father.
00:15:24
>> I always wanted a dad. And when I seen
00:15:26
that, so the situation that I seen was
00:15:29
it was bedtime. And the dad come in the
00:15:32
room. And he goes, "Oh, good night,
00:15:34
boys. Love you, son." That that moment
00:15:37
hit me, bro. Hit me. I was like, "What
00:15:43
is this? I've never ever heard that
00:15:46
before from a man. Um, and yeah,
00:15:51
it it hit home and I I got real thing
00:15:54
about it and yeah, sort of got jealous
00:15:56
and that led to to to that situation.
00:16:03
I'm getting emotional hearing that,
00:16:05
>> man. That's that's rough.
00:16:11
>> Sorry, mate.
00:16:12
>> Yeah. No, that's really that's really
00:16:14
rough. And I can I can tell it's hard. I
00:16:16
can tell you you feel shame like telling
00:16:18
the story. Like
00:16:19
>> it's not an easy story for you to share
00:16:21
now, is it?
00:16:21
>> No. And like I feel [ __ ] for doing that
00:16:25
to them. But
00:16:26
>> like in that moment,
00:16:28
>> [ __ ] I was just feeling all this
00:16:30
ugliness and and that was my reaction to
00:16:33
it, you know?
00:16:34
>> And I
00:16:37
I end up getting punished for that. So
00:16:39
yeah.
00:16:39
>> And did you buy who? Oh, so either
00:16:43
calling my mom and and whatnot and she
00:16:45
was like, "No, cool. I'm getting him
00:16:47
down there and he can come and clean
00:16:49
your house and and whatnot and yeah, so
00:16:53
had to pay it all back and and whatnot."
00:16:55
But you know, that was the situation
00:16:57
that I put myself in. Um, but yeah, that
00:17:00
was through that whole thing around
00:17:02
jealousy and rejection. You know,
00:17:04
rejection was was huge.
00:17:06
>> Yeah. M
00:17:08
>> when uh was your introduction to like
00:17:10
drugs and alcohol?
00:17:13
>> My first
00:17:15
my first taste of marijuana was I was
00:17:19
seven, eight. Yeah, I was about seven or
00:17:22
eight. Um
00:17:23
>> where's that? Did you steal it or was it
00:17:24
given to you or?
00:17:25
>> No. So
00:17:28
there's this time where all my cousins
00:17:30
in there, we all stayed in the same
00:17:31
house. Um but it was there was so many
00:17:34
of us all in this one and yeah one of my
00:17:39
cousins gave me a spot just a
00:17:41
>> How old was your cousin?
00:17:43
>> He would have been like 15 16 or
00:17:45
something like that.
00:17:46
>> That is so wrong.
00:17:47
>> Yeah. And I would have been like seven
00:17:49
or eight and they were they were having
00:17:52
a sesh and I was just there. Is your
00:17:55
one? I was like yeah whatever. Had one.
00:17:58
I was smashed.
00:18:00
I was smashed. I ended up eating a whole
00:18:03
tub of peanut butter after that.
00:18:07
Oh, and um anyway, my mom come home that
00:18:11
night and yeah, she
00:18:14
she didn't know. Um yeah, I was I was
00:18:18
smashed.
00:18:19
>> Was um was an enjoyable experience or
00:18:21
was it frightening? Like I'm I'm just
00:18:23
thinking like I'm probably projecting
00:18:25
here, but if I was seven or eight and I
00:18:27
was intoxicated,
00:18:28
>> I think it'd be quite a scary feeling
00:18:29
for me.
00:18:31
It it was out of it. Yeah. Um but I
00:18:36
think the scary thing for me was when my
00:18:39
mom come home and I was stay.
00:18:41
So I was trying to pretend that I was
00:18:43
asleep.
00:18:44
>> But yeah.
00:18:46
>> So there there was some like love and
00:18:48
discipline in your household from your
00:18:49
mom. Eh.
00:18:50
>> Yeah. She you know she she done the best
00:18:53
she could man with with the situation
00:18:55
that she had. I say that I say people
00:18:58
generally do the best they can with the
00:19:00
resources and tools they've got at the
00:19:01
time.
00:19:02
>> Yeah, that's right.
00:19:02
>> And the thing is like you're um you're a
00:19:04
good dad, but you you'll be doing things
00:19:06
right now that that'll [ __ ] your kids up
00:19:07
and they'll be angry with you one day.
00:19:09
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:19:09
>> And then they'll have kids and it's the
00:19:11
same sort of thing, but you just do the
00:19:12
best you can.
00:19:13
>> Yeah. And um you know, she she was
00:19:17
loving. She is loving.
00:19:19
>> Um and yeah, she was a hard worker. Real
00:19:23
hard worker. always at mahi um to try
00:19:25
and put Kai on the table. You know, I
00:19:28
remember having to talk to my mom and
00:19:30
that's what she thought love was. Just
00:19:31
making sure that we had Kai in our
00:19:33
stomach
00:19:34
>> and a roof over our head.
00:19:35
>> Um you know, not actually realizing that
00:19:39
I love you was was, you know, heaps as
00:19:42
well.
00:19:44
>> Did she never sort of say that?
00:19:46
>> Not when I was growing up. I don't think
00:19:49
maybe a few times, but now Yeah. She
00:19:53
says it quite a lot.
00:19:54
>> Yeah,
00:19:57
>> that's that's really sad.
00:20:00
>> It's um but you know starting to hear
00:20:03
about her journey
00:20:05
>> and how she grew up like Yeah.
00:20:09
Um,
00:20:10
I would love to actually hear a lot more
00:20:12
about my mom's journey to be honest cuz
00:20:15
you know we grow up and become adults
00:20:17
and you know our parents or my mom for
00:20:20
example she just done everything to get
00:20:23
us you know to here and then we don't
00:20:26
actually know what she went through you
00:20:27
know so
00:20:28
>> I would actually love to know more about
00:20:30
my mom's story and
00:20:32
>> you know yeah
00:20:34
>> well it's not too late eh
00:20:35
>> no it's never too late um you M yeah
00:20:41
just the reasons why a lot of a lot of
00:20:43
things were the way that they were you
00:20:45
know.
00:20:45
>> Yeah.
00:20:47
>> So um we seven or eight. Um what about
00:20:51
um alcohol and meth?
00:20:53
>> Um
00:20:55
so yeah I was a hard out. I loved I
00:20:59
loved weed.
00:21:00
>> Um to the point where I my nickname was
00:21:03
blazed.
00:21:04
>> At what age? Uh, so I got that given to
00:21:06
me maybe I was still quite young, 10,
00:21:10
11.
00:21:10
>> Wow.
00:21:12
>> Um,
00:21:13
yeah, I got that from my cousins and my
00:21:15
brothers.
00:21:17
>> And yeah, I I wasn't really much of a
00:21:22
drinker. I I did start sort of drinking
00:21:26
um
00:21:29
when I come back from Aussie. So I got
00:21:31
the opportunity well mom sent me over to
00:21:34
Australia for for a holiday with my
00:21:36
uncle and you know that that was
00:21:39
probably a really good time.
00:21:41
>> What age was that?
00:21:42
>> I would have been 10 11. Yeah.
00:21:45
>> Somewhere around there. Sort of when I
00:21:47
was just starting to go off the rails,
00:21:49
you know. Mom sort of um sent me over to
00:21:52
Australia with my uncle for it was only
00:21:55
supposed to be for a holiday and I ended
00:21:57
up staying over there for a bit.
00:22:00
Um and yeah, my uncle, he was really
00:22:03
loving. Um you know, and my auntie
00:22:07
and yeah, they sort of just gave the
00:22:09
best that they could.
00:22:11
>> But yeah, I I struggled over there
00:22:14
without my mom and stuff like that like
00:22:17
Yeah.
00:22:20
>> So you came back to New Zealand
00:22:21
>> and then um is it that when you get
00:22:23
introduced to alcohol?
00:22:26
Uh, I I had a few drinks here and there,
00:22:29
but yeah, it sort of started taking it
00:22:31
on real hard when I when I got sent
00:22:33
home.
00:22:34
>> So, I got into some trouble over in over
00:22:36
in Australia at school.
00:22:39
>> Um, got suspended and and my uncle said,
00:22:42
"One more hiccup and you're going home."
00:22:45
And that was the end of the story. And
00:22:47
anyway, I had a bit of a hiccup at at
00:22:49
school and it was over a stupid hat, you
00:22:51
know, didn't want to take my hat off in
00:22:52
class because I couldn't read. All
00:22:54
right. You know, I was just playing up,
00:22:57
right?
00:22:57
>> Yeah.
00:22:58
>> And that that thing led to another and
00:23:01
um yeah,
00:23:03
Michael, oh, you're getting on a plane
00:23:05
and you're going home and I did the
00:23:06
runner. I ran away uh for a but I didn't
00:23:10
want to come home.
00:23:12
>> Um yeah, I really really enjoyed being
00:23:14
with my uncle and yeah, unfortunately I
00:23:17
stuffed that up. M
00:23:21
>> so June 27, 2010.
00:23:26
>> M
00:23:27
>> So there's a rugby game on All Blacks
00:23:28
Wales.
00:23:30
>> Yeah.
00:23:30
>> Yeah. Talk us through that day.
00:23:35
>> It was just a typical day to start off
00:23:38
with. Um
00:23:42
yeah,
00:23:44
I guess around lunchtime caught off the
00:23:46
boys. Um, and we were having a few
00:23:49
drinks.
00:23:50
There was no sort of plan to go into
00:23:52
town or anything like that at all. And
00:23:56
anyway, we met up with a few other boys
00:23:59
uh from our neighborhood in in Hamilton.
00:24:02
And yeah, there was one lot going to a
00:24:06
party that was was in in our hood and
00:24:09
the other boys were going to town. And
00:24:13
yeah, I had two choices to make whether
00:24:15
to go to the hood or go to town. And I
00:24:18
chose to go to town.
00:24:19
>> Um,
00:24:21
and yeah, that situation went south real
00:24:26
quick.
00:24:27
>> Um, you know, we weren't in town for
00:24:29
long, uh, before we were in a fight with
00:24:32
some Wales supporters.
00:24:35
um you know for no reason really know
00:24:38
they just yelled out of their taxi
00:24:42
stuff the all blacks or something like
00:24:44
that and that was enough to sort of
00:24:46
trigger it you know we were sort of
00:24:47
already intoxicated
00:24:49
uh we had had some um
00:24:53
some drugs that night so
00:24:55
>> what did you have
00:24:56
>> meth and and some some weed and stuff
00:24:59
like that
00:25:00
>> but yeah just heaps of alcohol um And
00:25:05
yeah, that sort of led to to to that
00:25:08
fight um with with the whale supporters.
00:25:12
And yeah, we needed an escape out of
00:25:14
town before we before we sort of got
00:25:16
caught. And there was a car there that
00:25:19
was there was idling and we thought that
00:25:21
cool, we'll take this car and we'll get
00:25:23
out of here. Um and yeah, the owner sort
00:25:27
of sort of come out and yeah, the
00:25:29
situation went went south. Um
00:25:34
>> yeah. So the owner of the car um 74 year
00:25:37
old man called uh Donald Stewart.
00:25:41
>> So didn't know him from a barite.
00:25:44
>> And there's you and how many of your
00:25:45
mates?
00:25:46
>> Uh there was three of us in in total.
00:25:49
Yeah.
00:25:49
>> Yeah. So three all the same age?
00:25:52
>> Uh two of one was 14, I was 15, and our
00:25:56
other co-offender was 18. M so even just
00:26:00
thinking about that you know a 14 and a
00:26:03
15year-old in town drinking
00:26:06
>> just sounds so wrong
00:26:11
>> so so Donald Stewart comes out of the is
00:26:13
it a toilet public toilet
00:26:15
>> yeah so he leaves his car outside goes
00:26:18
into the L comes out then what happens
00:26:21
>> um oh I was my part I played was trying
00:26:25
to steal the car
00:26:27
>> so I was trying to steal of the car and
00:26:30
yeah, my co-offender
00:26:33
um I guess punched him and yeah, that
00:26:37
was sort of sort of it. Um we just
00:26:40
thought that he had knocked him out and
00:26:43
we took off in in in his car
00:26:47
>> and and it wasn't until maybe 3 4 days
00:26:50
later
00:26:52
um that we realized that the guy had
00:26:56
actually died. M
00:26:57
>> how did how did you hear that or find
00:26:58
out?
00:26:59
>> Um I seen it actually on the front page
00:27:02
of the newspaper
00:27:04
>> right
00:27:04
>> of the white times um that my mom was
00:27:08
reading.
00:27:09
>> All right.
00:27:10
>> So she was what do you So yes so so um
00:27:15
yes. So so you take the car at that
00:27:17
point. Are you guys laughing and joking
00:27:19
like it's uh
00:27:20
>> well the guy who king hit him he was
00:27:22
just so intoxicated he was in the back.
00:27:25
He went to sleep. He He was gone.
00:27:28
>> Um we were pretty drunk, but yeah, we
00:27:32
got out of town.
00:27:33
>> But But at that point, you like you're
00:27:35
not worried or anything. You're just
00:27:36
like sick. We got a car. We got a ride
00:27:38
home.
00:27:39
>> We We got away from town.
00:27:40
>> Yeah.
00:27:41
>> Yeah. So there was no sort of, you know,
00:27:44
we weren't running from nothing. There
00:27:46
was no worries about anything else. Just
00:27:48
we've got the stolen car, which for for
00:27:51
us was a daily daily thing, you know.
00:27:55
Um, yeah. So,
00:27:58
>> so then you Yeah. you go home, carry on
00:28:00
with life, and then your mom's reading
00:28:02
the paper. What What is What does that
00:28:05
feel like at that moment? Are you like,
00:28:06
"Oh, fuck."
00:28:07
>> I didn't even tell anyone.
00:28:09
>> Right.
00:28:09
>> I never say anything.
00:28:11
>> So, my mom was sitting at the bus stop
00:28:14
and just out from our house. Yeah. Yeah,
00:28:17
she had the newspaper in her hand and
00:28:19
she was reading the way and I just seen
00:28:21
the front um cover and yeah, it was the
00:28:25
car.
00:28:26
>> It was the car actually.
00:28:28
>> Oh, oh, you couldn't even read the story
00:28:29
if you wanted to at that point.
00:28:31
>> So, it was just the car that was on the
00:28:33
front and I was like, "What the hell?"
00:28:35
And Yeah. Um
00:28:42
Yeah.
00:28:44
And then um
00:28:46
you you talk to your mates about it,
00:28:48
your mates that you're in town with.
00:28:49
You're like, "Fuck, we're in we're in
00:28:51
the [ __ ] here, boys."
00:28:52
>> Yeah. Caught up with this, bro. Have you
00:28:54
heard? And no. What? And it was actually
00:28:59
that day we all got pulled up.
00:29:03
>> You at that point, are you thinking,
00:29:04
"I'm not I'm not going to be in too much
00:29:07
trouble or are you like, [ __ ] we're all
00:29:10
we're all screwed here."
00:29:12
>> You know what I mean? cuz you didn't.
00:29:13
>> No, I didn't really think much of it. I
00:29:15
just thought, "Oh, we're done for
00:29:18
stealing a car."
00:29:19
>> Like we were young and didn't really
00:29:23
think too much about things
00:29:26
>> and yeah, I just thought we'll just get
00:29:28
a slap on the hand for for stealing
00:29:30
another car. Um, but no, it was it was a
00:29:34
lot bigger than that. got taken in and
00:29:36
sort of went into the interrogation sort
00:29:38
of uh setting and it all just started
00:29:42
like we're taking
00:29:45
bloody samples out of your fingernails
00:29:47
and taking your hair follicles and you
00:29:50
know it was crazy.
00:29:53
>> Um all your clothes got to come off.
00:29:55
They've got to go into a bag and you've
00:29:57
got to go into these clothes so that
00:29:59
we've got evidence and and whatnot. And
00:30:01
it sort of just Yeah, it was probably
00:30:06
the most daunting experience
00:30:11
>> to sort of think that you were just
00:30:14
somebody walking on the street and now
00:30:15
you're getting questioned for for
00:30:17
murder.
00:30:20
>> Yeah. When when did you Yeah. When was
00:30:22
the moment you realized the seriousness
00:30:24
of it or you you learned like that you
00:30:26
were going to be charged with
00:30:28
manslaughter?
00:30:29
Um, from the moment I was walking on
00:30:32
that street and a police officer pulled
00:30:34
up right next to me and said, "You're
00:30:35
under arrest for the murder of Don."
00:30:37
Yeah.
00:30:40
>> That very moment. So,
00:30:44
you know,
00:30:45
>> what that feel like? Like your world was
00:30:46
closing in?
00:30:47
>> Oh, I just felt like it was all over. My
00:30:50
whole life was that's it. It's over.
00:30:53
Um and yeah, got taken straight to the
00:30:58
to the police station in Watau and um
00:31:02
yeah, the questioning started straight
00:31:03
away as soon as we got there.
00:31:08
>> And then um you do you get um bailed or
00:31:12
anything or you go straight to juvie?
00:31:14
>> Um
00:31:16
shucks. I think the whole questioning
00:31:19
part took like a whole day to be honest.
00:31:21
Um yeah, they're trying to squeeze
00:31:24
information out of us and being that
00:31:27
young um didn't really want to talk
00:31:30
about stuff
00:31:31
>> and didn't want to, you know, sort of
00:31:34
throw anyone else under the table or
00:31:35
anything like that.
00:31:37
>> But yeah, I think from there I got
00:31:41
handcuffed and taken straight to juvie.
00:31:43
Yeah.
00:31:44
>> What's that like?
00:31:45
>> Um that process was pretty daunting too.
00:31:48
>> How so? Uh just, you know, going through
00:31:52
the strip searching process and stuff
00:31:54
like that where you got to take off all
00:31:57
your clothes, lift your nuts and all
00:31:58
that sort of stuff and squat down, cough
00:32:01
is quite um
00:32:04
shucks, how can you put it?
00:32:06
>> It can be quite
00:32:08
>> demoralizing, I guess.
00:32:10
>> Yeah.
00:32:12
>> And did you
00:32:14
at this particular moment in time, did
00:32:15
you did you feel like a sense of
00:32:16
injustice like this is [ __ ] Like I
00:32:19
didn't even, you know, speak. Yeah,
00:32:21
>> for sure. Um
00:32:26
>> Yeah, cuz I was like, well, I didn't
00:32:29
kill nobody. I didn't do that. But
00:32:33
>> um my
00:32:36
I guess now I I sort of see it
00:32:38
different. you know, I I take full
00:32:39
responsibility for for the role that I
00:32:42
played because there is another family
00:32:44
involved and you know, um
00:32:48
yeah.
00:32:51
Yeah. I mean, yeah, you're completely
00:32:53
different person now. If you were still
00:32:54
the same person, we probably wouldn't be
00:32:56
sitting down having this conversation
00:32:57
today.
00:32:58
>> Um but yeah, that's part of the um
00:33:01
inspiring bit of your story, I guess. Um
00:33:03
just the transformation and the change.
00:33:05
>> Yeah.
00:33:06
>> Um we'll go through all that. Yeah. So
00:33:07
you spent a year on remand in the
00:33:10
juvenile detention center.
00:33:11
>> Yeah, I think it was just over a year uh
00:33:14
that I was on remand and then I went up
00:33:17
uh so I was charged with with murder
00:33:20
then. Um
00:33:22
and yeah, sitting on remand waiting to
00:33:25
go to court and
00:33:28
anyway during that time I actually got
00:33:31
an opportunity to um to seek bail. Uh,
00:33:36
so I was able to get out on electronic
00:33:38
bail,
00:33:38
>> uh, which I, yeah, I I ended up getting
00:33:42
it, so I was quite stoked with that. So
00:33:44
I could go home, uh, for for a little
00:33:46
period there. And, um,
00:33:50
yeah, dumb choices again by myself. Uh,
00:33:54
cut it off. I cut the bracelet off and
00:33:56
went on the run for for a few months.
00:33:59
Um,
00:34:01
done a whole another range of dumb
00:34:03
stuff. Uh and then yeah, got caught and
00:34:06
went straight back inside.
00:34:08
And
00:34:10
yeah, when I finally went up to went up
00:34:13
for um my my court hearing and
00:34:19
I could there was two options on on the
00:34:21
table. I could go to trial and and try
00:34:25
and beat the case, which is what I
00:34:26
wanted to do. Um, or I could take the
00:34:32
manslaughter charge, which was the
00:34:33
lesser charge, and you get whatever was
00:34:38
going to come with that.
00:34:39
>> But had I lost um the trial, I would be
00:34:43
looking at life in prison.
00:34:44
>> Oh, sort of like a plea deal.
00:34:46
>> Yeah.
00:34:46
>> Right. Uh so
00:34:49
I sort of weighed things up and you know
00:34:52
I say well
00:34:54
I I didn't touch him. So I I felt that I
00:34:57
I had I had some sort of um
00:35:01
case but my heart was telling me I
00:35:04
didn't want to put the family through
00:35:05
anymore.
00:35:06
>> I didn't want them to go through
00:35:08
anymore. I didn't need to go through a
00:35:09
trial um because then that family has to
00:35:13
deal with more you know. So on the day I
00:35:17
was just like, "Nah, I I'll take the
00:35:20
deal. Get this over and done with." And
00:35:23
yeah,
00:35:26
>> where did that come from?
00:35:28
That's a That's a good heart
00:35:30
>> or a good um like a glimpse of a good
00:35:32
moral compass.
00:35:34
>> You know, there's there's a there's a
00:35:37
good guy in there
00:35:38
>> in that kid.
00:35:39
>> Oh, I definitely think that that did
00:35:41
come from my mom. M she did install some
00:35:44
some good qualities in us and and the
00:35:48
loving part was Yeah. And yeah, I think
00:35:52
that did come from my mom.
00:35:55
>> Yeah. How how was this whole period for
00:35:56
for her for your mom?
00:35:58
>> You know what? I don't actually know. Um
00:36:01
to be honest,
00:36:03
I could only imagine that it was it was
00:36:05
hell.
00:36:07
I could only imagine myself with my own
00:36:10
kids. Imagine if one of my daughters was
00:36:13
going out with this,
00:36:14
>> how would I feel, you know,
00:36:16
>> um in that whole process as a parent?
00:36:22
>> So, yeah, I sort of
00:36:26
I regret going out that night with with
00:36:28
those guys. Um
00:36:30
>> Oh, mate, I've got no doubt that you've
00:36:32
replayed it in your mind a million
00:36:34
times.
00:36:34
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:36:35
>> A million times about what you what you
00:36:36
could have done, what you should have
00:36:37
done.
00:36:38
>> Yeah. Um,
00:36:40
>> you can't though. You can't change the
00:36:41
past.
00:36:41
>> No, I can't. And as much times as I want
00:36:44
to think, father, there was so much that
00:36:46
I could have done that night to stop
00:36:48
this or that I could have helped or all
00:36:51
those sort of things, but you know, this
00:36:54
this is the the cards that we dealt. Um,
00:36:58
and yeah, this the consequences we had
00:37:01
to deal with them
00:37:03
>> on our own. you know, I couldn't control
00:37:06
what my co-offenders were doing.
00:37:09
Couldn't control any of that stuff.
00:37:11
>> What they did was what they did and I
00:37:13
was there
00:37:14
>> and I put myself in that situation.
00:37:16
>> Yeah.
00:37:16
>> I showed up that night.
00:37:19
>> So, you get sentenced to uh 5 and a half
00:37:21
years for manslaughter and then um that
00:37:24
that's when you get moved from um the
00:37:26
juvenile detention center to
00:37:28
>> Widia prison.
00:37:29
>> Wa prison. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And adults
00:37:31
jail. So, you're how old? Uh, I was 15,
00:37:35
16.
00:37:36
>> Right. How old do you have to be to go
00:37:37
to an adult jail?
00:37:39
>> Oh, once you got those charges, you can
00:37:41
go straight in there. As soon as you get
00:37:43
sentenced,
00:37:44
>> but you I mean, you're still essentially
00:37:46
a kid. Are you in like segregation or
00:37:48
>> um population or
00:37:50
>> they had a youth wing at at Wia at that
00:37:53
at that time? Um, they don't anymore.
00:37:56
Um, but once you're sort of sentenced,
00:38:02
you can go straight into mainstream
00:38:05
prison or segregation. Uh, it's it's
00:38:08
your choice. Um, but I went to youth
00:38:12
prison in Wedia until I turned 18. The
00:38:15
day I turned 18, I went um I went up to
00:38:19
main prison and spent a bit of time
00:38:22
there before I went down to the camp.
00:38:24
So,
00:38:25
>> yeah.
00:38:27
What's that like going um Yeah. Is it
00:38:30
terrifying going?
00:38:31
>> Oh, for sure. Just going to jail is
00:38:33
quite terrifying. You know, uh you're
00:38:35
away from your family. You're away from
00:38:37
the norm of what you know. And yeah,
00:38:41
you're pretty much stuck in this
00:38:43
>> in this concrete jungle with all these
00:38:47
I don't know other inmates that have
00:38:50
done bad things, you know. M um and
00:38:53
yeah, it was quite
00:38:56
how how can I put it? Um not intimidated
00:38:59
cuz I I seen a lot myself. So
00:39:02
>> So you weren't scared or anything?
00:39:03
>> No, I wasn't scared. Um I think I just
00:39:07
felt lonely, eh? Um yeah.
00:39:10
>> Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Um
00:39:14
must just feel like a huge sense of
00:39:15
homesickness. Yeah, homesickness. This
00:39:17
is something you associate with kids.
00:39:19
But
00:39:20
>> I don't know like Yeah. You just can't
00:39:22
have any access to your family or
00:39:24
>> No, like you can't just walk down the
00:39:26
road anymore.
00:39:27
>> Can't go to the park.
00:39:29
>> You can't go see your mates. Can't just
00:39:30
go to the shop and go grab your ice
00:39:32
cream or whatever. Um yeah, you're stuck
00:39:34
in this routine now for however long
00:39:37
that you're in there. And
00:39:40
yeah, so when I when I
00:39:44
when I turned 18, I was given an option.
00:39:47
You go to segregation or SEGS or you go
00:39:50
to mainstream. And it was there was no
00:39:54
other option. It was just mainstream.
00:39:56
>> And um
00:39:58
>> how's that? Is it a brutal place? All me
00:40:01
and probably most people listening to
00:40:03
this or watching this think about jail
00:40:04
is what you see on TV or movies. Um,
00:40:08
oh, I think if you want to, you can just
00:40:12
have a cruisy cruisy lag, but there's
00:40:14
trouble everywhere, eh? Uh, everywhere
00:40:16
in in jail,
00:40:19
people are hustling, people are up to
00:40:22
whatever that they're doing.
00:40:23
>> Um, so yeah, you're sort of exposed to
00:40:26
that and at the age of 15, 16, you're
00:40:30
soaking it all in,
00:40:32
>> you know, you're like a little sponge.
00:40:34
>> It's like a university for band.
00:40:36
just soaking all that information in,
00:40:39
>> taking it all on board.
00:40:41
>> And you know what's crazy is like you
00:40:44
think you go to jail to be
00:40:46
rehabilitated. So when you get out of
00:40:48
jail, you become a better person, but in
00:40:52
fact it's not the case at all.
00:40:54
>> You come out in a way worse uh condition
00:40:58
than what you went in, you know. So
00:41:00
you've say you've only gone in for steal
00:41:03
and the lollipop. You're soon going to
00:41:04
learn how to cook meth and everything
00:41:06
else
00:41:07
>> while you're in there
00:41:09
>> and you're going to make so much
00:41:10
networks and connections
00:41:13
um you know with the people that you
00:41:15
want to
00:41:19
>> how was your mental health during um
00:41:21
your incarceration? Did you did you ever
00:41:23
consider taking your own life? Like I'm
00:41:24
I'm thinking 15 years old, you know, you
00:41:28
get sentenced to, you know, a stint of 5
00:41:30
years.
00:41:32
>> It's so that seems like such a long
00:41:35
period of time.
00:41:36
>> Yeah. My mental health was gone and oh,
00:41:40
I was pretty I was in a pretty bad
00:41:41
space. Um I tried committing suicide
00:41:45
maybe
00:41:49
a handful of times, sorry, while I was
00:41:51
in inside. Um,
00:41:54
and one of them was the night that I got
00:41:56
sentenced.
00:41:57
>> M, the night I got sentenced to 5 and
00:41:59
1/2 years,
00:42:01
>> I went back to myself and I was going to
00:42:02
top myself that night.
00:42:05
>> And yeah, I just thought the world was
00:42:09
going to be a better place without me,
00:42:11
you know.
00:42:12
>> Um, yeah.
00:42:14
>> Well, thanks for sharing that. M and on
00:42:17
a few other other occasions um yeah I
00:42:22
really considered it and tried to do it
00:42:25
on a few other occasions and never
00:42:28
succeeded
00:42:35
you. What's prison life like?
00:42:37
Like did you see some things that you
00:42:40
just never unsee
00:42:43
violence and stuff? Yep.
00:42:46
There is a few situations that I've seen
00:42:48
I pro probably won't share them.
00:42:51
>> Okay.
00:42:51
>> They're pretty brutal. Um
00:42:54
and yeah, but the routine of jail life
00:42:59
every day is the same.
00:43:01
>> What is it? What's a day?
00:43:03
>> So, you'll get up in the morning. Um
00:43:05
>> what time?
00:43:06
>> Depends what unit you're in. Some units
00:43:09
uh get to get up and say 7 8:00 in the
00:43:12
morning. they'll get unlocked and then
00:43:14
know some of them be unlocked until well
00:43:17
now nowadays some of them are out until
00:43:20
7 8:00 at night, you know.
00:43:22
>> Um but back then it was 8:00 unlock and
00:43:27
you're locked up from 11:00
00:43:30
in the morning through to 1:00 in the
00:43:32
afternoon and you're out for another
00:43:33
couple hours and doors were locked at
00:43:36
4:00. Um, and then in the time that
00:43:40
you're out of of your cell, you have to
00:43:43
do courses and all that sort of stuff,
00:43:45
uh, while you're in there. And then
00:43:48
you're locked up for lunch. Um, and then
00:43:51
back in your back out for a couple
00:43:53
hours, wreck time,
00:43:56
gym, yeah, all that sort of stuff. And
00:43:58
then lock back up uh for the rest of the
00:44:00
day until the next morning.
00:44:03
>> And that was pretty much our routine for
00:44:06
>> Yeah. for a while uh until the prisons
00:44:09
sort of opened up uh the doors and
00:44:12
pretty much done free range for for all
00:44:14
of us
00:44:15
>> from 8 to 8.
00:44:18
>> Was was there anything about it that you
00:44:20
liked? I I had um you know the UFC
00:44:22
fighter Mark Hunt.
00:44:23
>> Yeah.
00:44:23
>> Yeah. I had um the super sam on on the
00:44:25
podcast and he um when he was younger he
00:44:28
he did some time I think he was in Weta
00:44:31
as well for for violence
00:44:32
>> and he actually he loved the structure
00:44:35
and and the discipline aspect of it
00:44:37
>> he sort of thrived in there
00:44:39
>> wouldn't want to go back he said
00:44:42
>> but um
00:44:42
>> neither
00:44:45
>> um
00:44:46
I f what did I like about that I think
00:44:50
um what I did actually quite like about
00:44:53
it was the
00:44:55
the ingenuity and also the
00:45:00
like far
00:45:03
like some of the people that are in
00:45:04
there are so talented that's crazy.
00:45:07
>> Like they could be multi-millionaires
00:45:09
had they put their skills in the right
00:45:11
place. Like some of the um some of the
00:45:15
guys in there with their like just for
00:45:18
example selling drugs, it's it's a big
00:45:21
deal. like it's not just like anything
00:45:24
like you've got a whole business sort of
00:45:27
to uphold, you know, and you've got to
00:45:29
distribute all this product. Um, and if
00:45:33
you think about it, the same skills that
00:45:35
are used for that, you know, is the same
00:45:38
skills that we use for selling clothes
00:45:39
and stuff like that. So,
00:45:41
>> you know, had they just transferred that
00:45:44
skill to something positive, they they
00:45:47
would probably be walking millionaires,
00:45:49
you know.
00:45:49
>> Yeah. And the funny thing is as a legit
00:45:51
entrepreneur, you can make way more
00:45:53
money than what you can make illegally.
00:45:54
>> Yeah, for sure.
00:45:55
>> Oh yeah. And you can go buy a car
00:45:57
without um without any sort of question.
00:46:00
So
00:46:01
>> yeah. Yeah.
00:46:02
>> Um
00:46:04
did were you did you have your own cell
00:46:06
or were you like sharing with someone
00:46:07
else?
00:46:08
>> Uh I was sharing for a bit there. And
00:46:11
>> is it preferable? Is it is it is it like
00:46:13
I love my personal space. I couldn't
00:46:15
imagine someone having a dump in front
00:46:17
of me or vice versa. Um, is it is it do
00:46:21
people like being in a cellar with
00:46:22
another person because it gets lonely on
00:46:23
your own or what's that?
00:46:25
>> Oh, you some places you just got no
00:46:27
choice?
00:46:28
>> Yeah.
00:46:28
>> You know, so um Yeah. Like Spring Hill
00:46:31
for example, which is which is where my
00:46:34
last uh lag was was in Spring Hill and
00:46:38
those were all double uh double cells,
00:46:40
you know, so you'll sell it up with
00:46:42
somebody else. Um, but yeah, I prefer to
00:46:45
have my own cell, my own personal space,
00:46:48
>> and but hey, sometimes it was actually
00:46:51
good having a salemate, someone who you
00:46:53
could play cards with and sort of
00:46:55
bounce, I don't know,
00:46:57
>> stories off and stuff like that. And
00:46:59
yeah,
00:46:59
>> it's very small space to have two grown
00:47:02
men though, isn't it?
00:47:02
>> Yeah, it is. Um, actually Oakland wasn't
00:47:06
too bad to be honest.
00:47:08
It was a lot bigger than than Witti.
00:47:10
>> Yeah. But what's the um the biggest sort
00:47:12
of misconception about prison? Like you
00:47:14
hear people talking on like talkback or
00:47:16
whatever saying it's like a fivestar
00:47:17
hotel, you know, under floor heating and
00:47:21
you know all that sort of rhetoric.
00:47:23
>> Oh, it was nothing like that in Wii. I
00:47:26
could tell they had this heated bar and
00:47:29
that was it. Uh that's all they heated
00:47:31
up your cell.
00:47:32
>> Um and that did nothing during winter,
00:47:35
>> right? And you don't get extra blankets
00:47:38
or anything like that because of the
00:47:39
risk of uh suicide and and things like
00:47:42
that, you know. So, you don't you didn't
00:47:45
get extra blankets or extra sheets or
00:47:48
anything like that. You you just had to
00:47:50
deal with the cold by putting on maybe
00:47:53
extra set of pants or something like
00:47:55
that. So,
00:47:56
>> yeah, Wedia sort of um in between
00:48:00
Hamilton and the central north island
00:48:04
road sort of area. It's over by Telu.
00:48:06
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:08
>> [ __ ] it be cold there in winter.
00:48:09
>> It's freezing.
00:48:10
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:12
>> What What about um correction staff?
00:48:13
Like um at the time we're recording this
00:48:15
there's a big ad campaign that's on TV
00:48:17
and on YouTube all the time and um they
00:48:20
talk about they want to make a
00:48:21
difference in your experience and most
00:48:22
of the most the staff in the New Zealand
00:48:24
correction system good or there's some
00:48:26
[ __ ]
00:48:27
>> Oh, there's [ __ ] everywhere. It
00:48:29
doesn't matter whether you're in
00:48:30
corrections or or not. There's there's
00:48:32
[ __ ] just walking on the street.
00:48:35
>> Um but you know, most of the the screws
00:48:39
or the corrections officers that I dealt
00:48:41
with, they were they were pretty good.
00:48:43
>> They had um they had good hearts. Hey,
00:48:45
they want
00:48:46
>> they want the best for for the guys.
00:48:49
Hey, that they want to see them get out
00:48:51
>> and they don't want to see them come
00:48:52
back is is a lot of their their their
00:48:57
mahi, you know,
00:48:58
>> and
00:49:00
um
00:49:01
yeah, I think they get a lot of slack
00:49:04
for for the work that they do,
00:49:06
>> but hey, they're just trying to put Kai
00:49:08
on the table for their for their faro
00:49:10
just like everyone else.
00:49:12
>> But, you know, I've dealt with a with a
00:49:15
few corrections officers since I've been
00:49:17
out. Um, and my wife and I, we were
00:49:20
going in to Wikidia prison, uh, where I
00:49:23
started my farming journey and
00:49:27
we were sort of just sharing our journey
00:49:28
of where we are sort of now, you know,
00:49:30
with some of the guys that are on the
00:49:33
farming
00:49:34
um, program in there
00:49:36
>> and yeah, those corrections officers
00:49:38
really want the best.
00:49:41
>> Um, yeah.
00:49:44
>> Yeah. So, this is where the farming
00:49:45
journey started. Um,
00:49:48
Yeah. How explain that? Like a lot of
00:49:50
people be listening to this going, "What
00:49:52
do you mean farming journey in jail?"
00:49:54
>> Yeah. So um
00:49:57
in Weria there is there was three dairy
00:50:02
farms operating operating at that time
00:50:05
and I was in a unit that um ran the the
00:50:11
fencing of the of the dairy platform. Uh
00:50:15
so I got an opportunity to go out on the
00:50:17
on the farms and uh fix some of the
00:50:19
fences for for the cows and stuff like
00:50:22
that. And
00:50:23
>> so it's a farm in inside the the prison
00:50:26
perimeter fence or we are we used to low
00:50:29
security at this point?
00:50:30
>> Yeah. So you've got to be low security
00:50:33
uh in order to get out. Um so it it took
00:50:37
a it took a very long time. Maybe
00:50:39
>> no [ __ ] after you cut off the detention
00:50:41
anklet.
00:50:42
>> Yeah. So, my rock royal was pretty high
00:50:45
and in order to get it down, I needed to
00:50:47
do courses and and sort of keep my my
00:50:51
nose clean. Um,
00:50:53
>> what sort of courses were they any good?
00:50:55
>> You know what? Um, I think they would be
00:50:58
good if you want that help, you know, if
00:51:02
you actually want it. Um, there are some
00:51:05
good resources in some of those courses,
00:51:07
but hey, I was just doing it so I could
00:51:10
tick some boxes to get my ass out.
00:51:12
That's all I wanted to do those courses
00:51:15
for.
00:51:16
>> Um,
00:51:17
so I done I done heaps of courses while
00:51:19
I was in there and when I got out.
00:51:21
>> What like like anti violence and
00:51:23
>> um drug and alcohol uh yeah violence
00:51:28
>> um multi multif focus uh program. Uh
00:51:32
there was the mers disturbs and all that
00:51:34
sort of stuff. Um, yeah. So, those are
00:51:37
all sort of optional some of them. Some
00:51:40
of them you have to do.
00:51:43
>> So, you start farming because you think,
00:51:45
"Oh, this will be a good way to pass the
00:51:47
time, get some fresh air."
00:51:49
>> Yeah. So, I I took the opportunity cuz I
00:51:52
I was sick of staying myself.
00:51:55
>> So, yeah. Went out on the farm and I
00:51:58
started to learn a few skills and I
00:52:00
actually fell in love with the freedom.
00:52:03
M just the freedom of being out on the
00:52:06
land. Like I remember this one moment
00:52:09
like it got so a guy would come and he
00:52:13
wasn't an officer. He was just like a
00:52:15
manager um sort of like a contractor
00:52:18
into corrections who would take us out
00:52:20
and show us fencing. Anyway, he come and
00:52:23
picked us up in the morning and we'll
00:52:25
get ready and shoot out, go pick up our
00:52:28
gear and and go do some fencing. And I
00:52:31
remember this one day I just took off my
00:52:34
took off my gum boots and and that and I
00:52:37
just stood on the grass e and just that
00:52:40
that feeling of just freedom.
00:52:44
>> It just felt so good.
00:52:47
>> And yeah, I fell in love with with the
00:52:49
fennel that in that moment.
00:52:53
>> So when you're when you're farming
00:52:55
during your sentence, what what does the
00:52:56
day look like? you get up early for
00:52:58
milking or anything like you out there
00:52:59
before sunrise or no?
00:53:01
>> Um, so there is actually a milking crew
00:53:03
that that that'll do that. Yeah, they'll
00:53:06
be up there say 4:00 in the morning, go
00:53:08
milk the cows,
00:53:10
>> but with our crew, we would sort of just
00:53:13
pop into the dairy shed every now and
00:53:14
again and go milk a cow if we wanted to
00:53:18
and stuff like that. So that was the
00:53:20
first place I I actually put a set of
00:53:22
cups on on a cow was was at weria.
00:53:25
>> And
00:53:28
even though I was in the fencing crew,
00:53:30
we we always went to the dairy platforms
00:53:33
just to see um if there was sort of any
00:53:37
priority jobs that they needed done for
00:53:40
where their cows were going and stuff
00:53:41
like that. So we were really exposed to
00:53:44
to quite a few opportunities in there.
00:53:46
Tractor driving and you know we we had
00:53:49
free range once we were out on those
00:53:51
farms like you'll get given a quad you
00:53:54
have to go right to the other side of
00:53:56
the prison to do some stuff over there
00:53:58
and you know so it it wasn't like we had
00:54:01
an officer with us 24/7
00:54:03
>> uh while we were there. Um
00:54:05
>> it's a massive amount of trust e but as
00:54:07
you said before it's like earned trust.
00:54:08
Yeah, that's right. And and like it
00:54:11
takes a lot of work to get out on those
00:54:13
programs.
00:54:14
>> Some people just think that you just you
00:54:16
just get given them, but no, it took me
00:54:18
three three years in order to actually
00:54:21
get
00:54:22
>> out.
00:54:25
>> And and was it somewhere during this um
00:54:26
this farm stunt while you're
00:54:28
incarcerated that you think um this is
00:54:30
going to be the future for me? like um
00:54:33
did did like did you do some serious
00:54:34
like inner work?
00:54:36
>> Um
00:54:37
>> and so you were determined to change or
00:54:39
not at this point?
00:54:40
>> No.
00:54:41
>> No, I didn't know
00:54:44
what change was really. I was Yeah. I I
00:54:49
just wanted to get out of jail
00:54:50
>> and just make the time go faster.
00:54:52
>> Yeah.
00:54:52
>> Yeah.
00:54:53
>> Um you know, I didn't see farming as
00:54:56
anything then. Um, but I knew I was
00:54:59
learning some really good skills and
00:55:02
yeah, learned how to operate tractors
00:55:04
and and whatnot while I was in there.
00:55:06
Um,
00:55:08
again, we we had courses in there and I
00:55:12
struggled.
00:55:13
>> It was
00:55:14
>> cuz you still couldn't read or
00:55:15
>> Yeah. So, all the practical stuff I aced
00:55:18
but all the theory stuff was just like
00:55:21
>> Yeah.
00:55:21
>> Yeah. Well, why could you have got an
00:55:25
education in there?
00:55:26
>> For sure. Yeah. Why Why didn't you use
00:55:28
that time to read and write? You had
00:55:29
nothing else to do.
00:55:30
>> Um I don't know. I just to be honest, I
00:55:34
think I was
00:55:36
maybe too cool for it, you know?
00:55:38
>> I thought I was
00:55:39
>> just embarrassing.
00:55:40
>> Yeah.
00:55:40
>> Yeah.
00:55:41
>> Um yeah, I didn't want to tell anyone
00:55:44
that I couldn't read or write.
00:55:47
>> And yeah, I just didn't want to bear
00:55:49
that shame, I guess.
00:55:51
>> Yeah, it's understandable. So then um
00:55:54
2014 uh you get released after 4 years.
00:55:57
So you're how old at the time?
00:55:59
>> I was 20.
00:56:00
>> 20. [ __ ] You're still really young, eh,
00:56:02
man.
00:56:03
>> And um what do you get? You get $300 the
00:56:07
$300 when you leave?
00:56:08
>> Yeah.
00:56:09
>> 350 bucks.
00:56:10
>> Really? What do they base that on?
00:56:12
>> I don't know.
00:56:13
>> Is that money that you earned on the
00:56:14
farm or
00:56:15
>> I don't know. But
00:56:16
>> does everyone get it when they leave
00:56:17
jail?
00:56:18
>> Um it's it's definitely not from the
00:56:21
work that you do in there. Okay.
00:56:22
>> It's just the steps to freedom that you
00:56:24
that you receive once you get released
00:56:26
from jail.
00:56:27
>> And if you're a prisoner, if you're
00:56:33
if you smoke drugs, drink alcohol, all
00:56:35
that sort of stuff, you already know
00:56:36
where that $350 is going. It's
00:56:38
definitely not going on food. And yeah,
00:56:41
it's not going on a ride either. It's
00:56:43
probably going on either an ounce or a
00:56:47
bag or alcohol.
00:56:50
It's going on a good time.
00:56:52
Um, so yeah, it's just a a $350 ticket
00:56:56
back to jail
00:56:58
>> is how I see it.
00:56:59
>> So, what what's that day like when you
00:57:00
when you get released after being
00:57:02
incarcerated for 4 years? Who who's
00:57:04
there to pick you up?
00:57:05
>> Um, the day I got out and released, my
00:57:09
wife picked me up
00:57:11
>> and
00:57:11
>> Nikki, who's in the control room now.
00:57:13
>> Yeah.
00:57:13
>> Yeah. So, when did you start seeing her?
00:57:16
Um, long story short, uh, so I knew
00:57:21
Nikki for for a few years before we
00:57:23
started, um, actually seeing each other
00:57:26
and just become good, really good
00:57:28
friends.
00:57:29
>> Um, she was really supportive and yeah,
00:57:33
sort of developed from the from that.
00:57:35
Um, and so when when I did get up, yeah,
00:57:39
the the feelings just become even more,
00:57:42
>> you know. So,
00:57:45
>> have you had this discussion with it?
00:57:46
Like, what did she see in you
00:57:48
>> or if she's picking you up from jail?
00:57:50
Like, she know, you know, she knows she
00:57:52
knows everything about you.
00:57:55
>> Um,
00:57:55
>> was she just going through her bad boy
00:57:56
phase?
00:57:58
>> I don't know.
00:58:02
What did you see of me?
00:58:04
>> Um, she did she see
00:58:06
>> I don't know. Did she see potential?
00:58:07
Like, did did she like the Ben that's
00:58:10
sitting in front of me now? Did she
00:58:12
>> I believe so. I believe so, Dom.
00:58:14
>> She believed in you even before you
00:58:16
believed in yourself.
00:58:17
>> That's right. Um she seen something that
00:58:19
I did not.
00:58:21
>> And um it's
00:58:26
I've got Iowa to her. She she deserves
00:58:28
all the praise and all the credit of
00:58:30
where we are today.
00:58:32
So a lot of the the mahi and and behind
00:58:35
the scenes is my wife. M she's really
00:58:40
done a lot to get us or get me in the
00:58:44
space that I am now, you know. So
00:58:47
>> yeah,
00:58:47
>> that's awesome.
00:58:49
>> So she picks you up. What what do you
00:58:50
do? You go to McDonald's, KFC, like what
00:58:52
what's the
00:58:54
like like what do you what do you in
00:58:56
that four years like what do you what do
00:58:57
you fantasize about what you're going to
00:58:59
do when you get out?
00:59:00
>> Fantasize
00:59:02
no. Um, we
00:59:04
>> I I love Coke Zero, so I'd be just
00:59:07
craving that.
00:59:09
>> Um,
00:59:10
Shak, she picked me up and I had a time
00:59:14
limit to be at the address that I needed
00:59:17
to be at, which was pretty much the time
00:59:21
from the prison to the address. So, we
00:59:24
we couldn't we couldn't stop at all.
00:59:26
>> Okay.
00:59:27
>> Um, and funny story, funny story. Um, so
00:59:31
we left Waia, drove home, and we were
00:59:36
turning into our driveway and what was
00:59:39
sitting in my driver was a police
00:59:40
officer, a police car, and I was like,
00:59:44
"Oh, we were like 2 minutes late, bro. 2
00:59:48
minutes late on this on arriving." So we
00:59:51
we got caught up in a bit of traffic. So
00:59:55
2 minutes late and the cop was here. I
00:59:58
was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'm going back to
01:00:00
jail.
01:00:01
Oh no, I'm going back to jail already. I
01:00:05
just got out like 1 hour ago. Um anyway,
01:00:09
the cop wasn't even there for me. He
01:00:11
just pulled over.
01:00:12
>> Oh, so so yeah, there's an address that
01:00:15
you get bailed to. It has to be an
01:00:16
approved address and then strict bail
01:00:19
conditions like no drugs, no alcohol.
01:00:21
Yeah, no drugs, no alcohol, curfew,
01:00:24
um
01:00:25
no association with uh co-offenders,
01:00:29
and you know, couldn't see the the
01:00:32
victim's family, all that sort of stuff.
01:00:34
>> Um which is pretty it's the basics, you
01:00:38
know, sort of when you get released on
01:00:40
on parole.
01:00:42
>> And
01:00:44
yeah, so I I got home in time. Didn't
01:00:47
get to stop for Mackers or anything like
01:00:49
that. Um, but I think our first feed
01:00:53
that night was was KFC,
01:00:55
which Yeah, I loved it cuz if you if
01:00:59
you've been locked up for for so many
01:01:01
years over that time, chicken is the
01:01:04
best feed when you're in jail. So, every
01:01:07
Friday night, chicken. So,
01:01:10
>> in jail?
01:01:11
>> Yeah.
01:01:11
>> Really?
01:01:12
>> So, chicken, some roast veggies,
01:01:15
um, some peas, and some gravy. M there
01:01:19
was every Oh, no. Every Thursday night,
01:01:21
sorry. Friday night was a jandle.
01:01:24
>> A jandle?
01:01:25
>> Yeah. A fish jandle.
01:01:27
>> What's that?
01:01:29
>> So, it's one of those hokey fish.
01:01:33
>> Like a fish fillet.
01:01:34
>> Yeah.
01:01:34
>> Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:35
>> And it's just steamed and like you can
01:01:37
you can whack people with it, bro. Like
01:01:40
those are just jandles, eh?
01:01:44
So,
01:01:45
>> and then um um you you slip up and you
01:01:47
get go back to jail and you get
01:01:49
recalled.
01:01:50
>> Yes, I did get record. Um
01:01:53
so, yeah.
01:01:57
>> What was that for?
01:01:59
>> Um violent.
01:02:02
>> Violent.
01:02:04
Oh,
01:02:06
as much as I wanted to
01:02:09
as much as I wanted to change when I got
01:02:11
out like Yeah. It just wasn't wasn't it
01:02:15
got out and probably become worse.
01:02:18
>> And
01:02:19
>> who who who are you violent against?
01:02:22
>> Um
01:02:24
against my wife.
01:02:26
>> Yeah. So you know seeing domestic
01:02:29
violence growing up like
01:02:33
not saying that it was normal but
01:02:36
yeah that's sort of what I was exposed
01:02:37
to. And
01:02:40
um I remember telling myself I never
01:02:43
ever want to be like that and I become
01:02:45
that and probably even worse to be
01:02:48
honest.
01:02:50
Uh so yeah, everyone that was sort of
01:02:53
close to me I was I hurt.
01:02:56
>> Yeah.
01:02:58
>> Why is she still here?
01:03:01
>> That's a good question.
01:03:03
But
01:03:05
yeah, like like before, I think she just
01:03:07
sees the potential um and sees the
01:03:10
greater
01:03:11
>> in me that
01:03:12
>> yeah, that no one else can see.
01:03:15
>> And you know, I didn't even with the
01:03:18
awards and stuff like that.
01:03:20
>> Um I didn't see myself there.
01:03:23
>> I didn't even see myself uh in that
01:03:25
atmosphere,
01:03:26
>> let alone winning it.
01:03:28
>> Yeah. And yeah, she she really drove me
01:03:31
to, you know, step out and give it a
01:03:34
crack.
01:03:37
>> So, you you go back to jail.
01:03:39
>> Um,
01:03:40
>> you must be feeling like [ __ ] at this
01:03:42
point, eh? Like, oh, like like you've
01:03:44
let yourself down, you've let Nikki
01:03:45
down, you've [ __ ] up.
01:03:48
>> That was probably rock bottom was their
01:03:50
last stint.
01:03:51
>> Yeah. Um, so I went back to jail and
01:03:56
I finally got a hold of of my wife and
01:03:59
the phone call went like this. Me and
01:04:02
the kids are going to Australia.
01:04:05
Um,
01:04:06
so before you get out, we'll be gone.
01:04:09
You know, that was the conversation,
01:04:11
>> right? Cuz you would be unable to
01:04:13
travel. No.
01:04:13
>> So you couldn't
01:04:14
>> I couldn't go to Australia
01:04:16
>> and I've applied just recently and I'm
01:04:19
still getting denied. M
01:04:21
>> you know because of my charges. But
01:04:24
yeah, her and the kids were going to go
01:04:25
to Aussie and that was probably where I
01:04:28
hit rock bottom. Not even being in jail
01:04:31
was rock bottom for me.
01:04:32
>> Uh was hearing that from from my wife
01:04:35
was she was taking my kids away and
01:04:39
>> and there's nothing you can do about it.
01:04:40
>> And there's nothing I could do about it.
01:04:42
But thank thankfully to well my wife was
01:04:47
staying and to my two older girls who um
01:04:51
cried, you know, they they really
01:04:55
wanted us to work things out
01:04:58
>> and wanted to,
01:05:01
you know, sort of
01:05:03
um wanted mom to stay with me. So
01:05:06
>> yeah.
01:05:06
>> So is is that sort of how she
01:05:10
>> Yeah. Was it the kids that sort of
01:05:11
convinced you to stay?
01:05:12
>> And did you did you make a like a big
01:05:14
growling promise that you're going to
01:05:16
change this time? And
01:05:17
>> Yeah.
01:05:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:19
>> Um,
01:05:19
>> and did you did you mean it? Did you
01:05:21
think you were able to?
01:05:23
>> I did mean it. Um, I didn't know how I
01:05:26
was going to do it and I didn't know
01:05:30
where I was going to get the support to
01:05:32
to it
01:05:33
>> cuz I I don't know if it's pride or or
01:05:36
what, but I didn't know how to ask for
01:05:39
help. Yeah. I couldn't ask anybody for
01:05:42
help. Yeah.
01:05:43
>> So, yeah. And I remember saying to to my
01:05:49
wife like this time for real like I want
01:05:52
to marry you.
01:05:54
Long story. Like the day we actually got
01:05:56
the day I got out of jail, we went
01:05:58
straight to the courthouse and got
01:06:00
married.
01:06:02
>> Pretty romantic. Um
01:06:04
>> a nice visit to court.
01:06:05
>> Yeah. So went to the courthouse and
01:06:09
yeah, we went through that process. Um,
01:06:12
and you know, I I would have loved to
01:06:15
have believed that that would have been
01:06:16
the end of all the [ __ ]
01:06:19
>> But it's not true. E
01:06:23
>> like the drugs,
01:06:24
>> the alcohol,
01:06:26
>> the all of that sort of stuff was still
01:06:30
easily accessible. Especially out here,
01:06:33
you just walk down the road and you can
01:06:35
find somebody with drugs and there's a
01:06:37
liquor store on every single corner.
01:06:39
>> Um, and
01:06:40
>> I suppose it's hard when that's your
01:06:42
when that's your ecosystem, like that's
01:06:43
that's all your friends and your faro
01:06:45
and everything you know. What? So, how
01:06:48
do you escape it?
01:06:49
>> F. Do you just have to cut tie with all
01:06:52
your
01:06:53
>> Yeah. As hard as as hard as it is, you
01:06:57
have to separate yourself
01:06:58
>> until you're I guess strong enough um to
01:07:02
say no.
01:07:03
>> Hey, like especially with meth and stuff
01:07:06
like that.
01:07:07
>> And all my bros I could get it
01:07:11
anytime, you know, and
01:07:13
>> so I had to cut those ties in order to
01:07:15
get off the ship.
01:07:16
>> Um
01:07:18
and yeah.
01:07:21
So, so, so for you, for your story,
01:07:24
we're at the point now where your
01:07:26
sentence is done, you've done the crime.
01:07:28
Uh, you've done the you've done the
01:07:30
crime, you did the time. Yeah.
01:07:31
>> And then now you're allowed to get on
01:07:32
with your life. Um, but I suppose for um
01:07:36
for for the victim's family, Donald
01:07:37
Stewart, like it's a it's a life
01:07:39
sentence in a way. They have to live
01:07:40
with it forever. Like Yeah. Like Yeah.
01:07:44
Yeah. How do you reflect on that?
01:07:46
>> You know, I I think about their family
01:07:48
all the time. Yeah,
01:07:50
>> you know, prior to even getting getting
01:07:52
into the exposure side of things, um
01:07:56
like entering the awards and before I
01:07:59
even done all that stuff, um I really
01:08:03
wanted to I guess
01:08:07
seek forgiveness. Um, and you know, just
01:08:12
some sort of
01:08:15
it's okay, you know, for for you to move
01:08:18
on with your life, so to speak.
01:08:21
>> Um, so yeah, we I think it was 2020, I
01:08:26
had the opportunity of of actually
01:08:27
meeting um,
01:08:30
Don's brother and and his his wife and
01:08:34
and his family. And you know the the
01:08:38
three words that really um I guess set
01:08:41
me free was we forgive you know and even
01:08:47
though I heard that at sentencing as
01:08:50
well. Um yeah that really just I guess
01:08:54
gave me a sense of
01:08:57
freedom again. It
01:09:00
>> did they say that in the sentencing?
01:09:02
>> Yeah. Wow.
01:09:03
>> In in the sentencing. Um cuz like my um
01:09:08
my mom's the same age now as what uh
01:09:10
Donald was and dad's a little bit older.
01:09:13
So I'm just I'm projecting here. I'm
01:09:14
putting myself in in their position.
01:09:17
>> If it was me, I think I'd be able to I'd
01:09:20
be able to forgive you now seeing seeing
01:09:22
the man you've become and that you've
01:09:24
done the work and you've changed. Um,
01:09:26
but if I was in court facing like a
01:09:28
shitty little 15year-old that had had
01:09:30
done it and wasn't actually sorry or
01:09:32
hadn't done any change at that point,
01:09:34
I'd find it very difficult to forgive
01:09:35
you at that point.
01:09:36
>> Yeah. You know, I I actually did not
01:09:39
understand
01:09:41
forgiveness then. I did I didn't
01:09:43
understand it. M
01:09:45
>> um so when when I think it was the
01:09:47
daughter um had read that you know I I
01:09:51
didn't quite get it until till later on
01:09:54
in my journey
01:09:55
>> uh where I sort of started to learn
01:09:57
about forgiveness and stuff like that
01:09:59
>> and you know that was the first
01:10:01
encounter of of forgiveness that I that
01:10:03
I ever had
01:10:04
>> was that day in sentencing
01:10:06
>> and
01:10:08
yeah and then again when I met the
01:10:12
brother um you know that if they do
01:10:15
forgive me and and stuff like that for
01:10:18
for the part that I played and you know
01:10:20
what um that really gave me the wings to
01:10:23
to fly I guess
01:10:25
>> um and sort of take off and and start my
01:10:29
life
01:10:30
>> with my family um because yeah my my
01:10:34
faro are my why of why I do everything
01:10:39
>> and
01:10:41
yeah and and it wasn't plain sailing
01:10:44
after that like you and you nick you
01:10:45
were living in a car for a while. You
01:10:47
were homeless.
01:10:47
>> Yeah. So I put my family in a situation.
01:10:51
Hey um
01:10:53
I was I was working then but I was still
01:10:56
hooked on drugs.
01:10:57
>> Mhm.
01:10:58
>> Uh at this at this point and
01:11:02
meth was was that drug. Um
01:11:06
and I sold everything for it. I sort of
01:11:09
went down this path of just I wanted it
01:11:12
and I was going to do anything to get
01:11:14
it. Um so I just started selling
01:11:17
everything, got rid of everything and
01:11:19
just to fulfill my my habit. Um, but I
01:11:24
think also to numb some of that
01:11:27
that pain,
01:11:29
>> hey,
01:11:29
>> the childhood trauma that stuff that
01:11:32
happened with the uh with the situation
01:11:35
with uh Dawn and that and yeah um put my
01:11:41
faro
01:11:43
in a situation where they become
01:11:44
homeless. Yeah. And
01:11:47
um we're sort of couch surfing from Faro
01:11:51
and friends and stuff like that. And you
01:11:54
know Nikki and the kids sort of camped
01:11:58
up in in the car while I was still out
01:12:00
the gate. Um you know chasing
01:12:05
meth.
01:12:09
>> Nikki must have been been under so much
01:12:11
pressure from her family. E like like
01:12:12
what are you doing with this guy?
01:12:14
>> For sure.
01:12:16
Like
01:12:16
>> I can't imagine like the I don't know
01:12:18
the what the word is if it's
01:12:20
determination or whatever to stay with
01:12:22
you. Like
01:12:24
>> there must have been so much fun I
01:12:25
pulled to get her away from you.
01:12:27
>> Oh for sure. Like yeah I don't even know
01:12:31
why or how she even stayed with me. Um
01:12:34
yeah. So and her faro like they're are
01:12:38
loving. They're real loving family. M
01:12:42
>> um my mom and dad. Yeah, they're so
01:12:45
awesome. You know, they they probably
01:12:47
didn't like me then at all.
01:12:49
>> Well, it sounds that you didn't like
01:12:51
yourself then.
01:12:52
>> No, I didn't.
01:12:53
>> Um I
01:12:55
was a pretty ugly person then. Um yeah,
01:12:59
>> to to everyone,
01:13:01
>> not just to
01:13:02
>> Nikki and I was just ugly to everybody.
01:13:05
>> Yeah. There's a saying I really like um
01:13:08
hurt people hurt people.
01:13:10
>> That's right.
01:13:10
>> Yeah. Yeah,
01:13:11
>> you were you were hurt.
01:13:12
>> Yeah. And you know what? There's there's
01:13:15
a flip side to that. E um when you find
01:13:17
healing and heal people, heal people.
01:13:21
>> Yeah. And I guess that's sort of the
01:13:23
journey that I'm on at the moment is
01:13:25
>> is using my experience and my journey
01:13:29
that I've been through to sort of um
01:13:32
help others that are going through it
01:13:35
>> and also to hopefully be some sort of
01:13:39
intervention for some of our young ones.
01:13:41
>> Yeah.
01:13:42
>> So that they don't have to walk down the
01:13:44
same path. They don't need to experience
01:13:46
jail. That's ugly place. You don't need
01:13:50
to go down there. Go get an education.
01:13:53
>> Go learn how to read or write. Um, you
01:13:55
know,
01:13:56
>> go put your head in some books so you
01:13:58
could become something.
01:14:03
>> Thankfully, we're through the the ugly
01:14:05
part of the story. Yeah. Is it is it
01:14:09
hard to talk about?
01:14:10
>> Um,
01:14:11
>> it's it's part of it's part of your
01:14:13
story, eh, but it's still not a nice
01:14:14
part of the story.
01:14:15
>> No. And I guess like when you're sharing
01:14:18
your shame,
01:14:20
it is quite quite hard. E um but I also
01:14:24
see the power in it. Um like I was just
01:14:28
sharing then like for others to be able
01:14:31
to take it up and and maybe get
01:14:33
something from it.
01:14:35
>> Um is is sort of where I see the power
01:14:37
in in sharing.
01:14:38
>> Yeah. Yeah, because if if I could help
01:14:41
somebody
01:14:43
and change the course of what whatever
01:14:45
path that they're on,
01:14:47
>> I feel like I'm I'm doing something not
01:14:51
just for me and myself, but also for Don
01:14:53
and his family,
01:14:54
>> you know, like Yeah.
01:14:57
[Music]
01:14:59
>> So, so how do you go from um living in
01:15:02
the car to getting getting that first
01:15:05
job on a farm? Who who was it that gave
01:15:07
you gave you the opportunity?
01:15:09
>> Um, so
01:15:14
shucks from there
01:15:16
I had a few jobs uh leading up to that
01:15:19
situation, but my first job when I first
01:15:21
got out of jail was actually on a bull
01:15:23
farm in Mensville doing three and a half
01:15:26
thousand bulls. Um, which was hard work,
01:15:30
>> but I I lived off that adrenaline. So
01:15:35
working with bulls was bloody cool.
01:15:39
Um and yeah, so that was the first
01:15:42
opportunity that I got when I first got
01:15:44
out of jail. It was the week of getting
01:15:46
out of jail
01:15:47
>> that I got that one.
01:15:49
>> Um
01:15:50
and then from there I moved over to the
01:15:53
dairy industry and I had a a heap of
01:15:57
[ __ ] jobs. E like with a criminal record
01:16:00
you have to take whatever. You don't
01:16:03
have an option.
01:16:04
>> Yeah. The opportunities are extremely
01:16:06
limited, aren't they?
01:16:07
>> That's right. Hey, so um in every single
01:16:11
interview that you'll walk into, first
01:16:13
question is, "Have you got a criminal
01:16:14
record?" Straight off the bat. Okay. So,
01:16:18
yes, I do. Oh, cool. Is it just
01:16:20
stealing? No, it's manslaughter. Oh,
01:16:24
that's pretty much the interview over,
01:16:26
you know. So, that was probably 99% of
01:16:29
the time.
01:16:30
>> Yeah. So, and then yeah, finally got a
01:16:33
got a break um from a really awesome
01:16:37
farmer uh in in the Mville Minesville
01:16:41
area. Uh Graeme Graeme and Julie Lucas,
01:16:46
amazing couple. And you know what? They
01:16:48
actually gave me the opportunity to to
01:16:52
operate their farm. But also during that
01:16:55
time was when I went back in on my
01:16:58
recall
01:16:59
>> was was on their farm. And you know any
01:17:04
other a farmer or an employer that'll be
01:17:08
it. Your job's gone. You know you're not
01:17:10
here to fulfill it. So they'll need to
01:17:13
fill that spot. Well they didn't. They
01:17:16
kept my job open. They allowed Nikki to
01:17:20
operate the farm while I was absent or
01:17:22
in jail and they helped her out and they
01:17:27
came along to my parole hearing. Um
01:17:31
yeah, so
01:17:33
that was a really powerful I guess
01:17:36
moment also in my journey was was them
01:17:39
and you know they are really awesome
01:17:41
today. They still flick me a message
01:17:43
every now and again, stay in contact,
01:17:46
seen them last year, field days and
01:17:47
stuff like that. And and oh, I'm so
01:17:50
grateful to have people like them.
01:17:53
There's another couple as well, uh,
01:17:56
Shane and Cheryl.
01:17:58
Um, another beautiful couple, who gave
01:18:02
me an opportunity knowing my background.
01:18:04
Um, they just didn't care. They were
01:18:06
like, "Cool, that doesn't really worry
01:18:09
us." and he taught me a lot about
01:18:12
farming, about life. Um, yeah, sort of
01:18:16
like a
01:18:18
like a cur, a father figure, you know.
01:18:20
Um, one that yeah, sort of showed me a
01:18:23
lot in the short amounts of time that I
01:18:26
was with him.
01:18:27
>> He he taught me heaps. And the
01:18:30
>> these two farm owner couples that you've
01:18:32
just mentioned,
01:18:34
have you had a conversation with them?
01:18:35
Like, why didn't they just wash their
01:18:37
hands with you?
01:18:38
I haven't actually had that conversation
01:18:40
with them. Um, but you know what, Shane,
01:18:43
he he's always like even just recently,
01:18:48
he um
01:18:50
he dropped off these homemade boats. So,
01:18:54
he made these little little yachts
01:18:57
uh for my for my daughter.
01:19:00
>> And, you know, we've just had this
01:19:02
relationship
01:19:04
um since starting with him. And it's
01:19:08
just been amazing, you know, uh like
01:19:11
>> I can call on them whenever or I feel
01:19:13
like I can call on them for whatever,
01:19:16
you know.
01:19:17
>> Um and when we move from
01:19:21
um from his farm to another farm, like
01:19:24
he got all the support that we needed to
01:19:25
move and and everything like that. So
01:19:28
>> yeah, he's just I don't know. You find
01:19:31
those ones and but it's quite rare, you
01:19:34
know. It's just like finding bloody
01:19:36
diamonds, you know. It is quite rare.
01:19:38
And
01:19:39
>> uh when when I did find them, they would
01:19:42
Yeah. They become family, you know.
01:19:45
>> Yeah. There's some really good people
01:19:46
out there, right? But it's you can also
01:19:49
understand not saying that people that
01:19:50
wouldn't give you a sec a second chance
01:19:52
or a third chance are bad people. They
01:19:54
don't owe you anything.
01:19:55
>> No, they don't. and they didn't need to
01:19:58
do what they did
01:19:59
>> at all. You know, especially when I went
01:20:01
to jail. Um I
01:20:05
I
01:20:05
>> there would be an opportunity to say,
01:20:07
"Okay, we we gave you a chance. Clearly,
01:20:08
you haven't changed. Um we don't want to
01:20:10
know about yet."
01:20:11
>> Yeah, for sure.
01:20:12
>> Yeah.
01:20:13
>> And obviously they also seen potential
01:20:15
in me that I didn't see,
01:20:18
>> you know.
01:20:18
>> When did you start to see the potential
01:20:20
in yourself?
01:20:21
>> Um
01:20:25
maybe
01:20:27
after
01:20:34
25 I don't maybe 7 years ago. Yeah,
01:20:37
>> 7 years ago. Was there a moment or
01:20:39
anything or was it like a gradual thing?
01:20:42
Um,
01:20:44
so
01:20:46
I was going through a whole lot of
01:20:47
rubbish and you know I was I was
01:20:49
actually looking at going back to jail
01:20:52
and um
01:20:55
had this police officer. He
01:21:00
he was um
01:21:02
he he was at home quite a lot, you know,
01:21:06
um checking up on Nikki and whatnot. Um,
01:21:09
yeah, just to see if things were all
01:21:11
going okay. But it wasn't. And you know,
01:21:14
he was like, "Bro, like if you carry
01:21:16
this [ __ ] on, you're going to go to jail
01:21:19
and they're going to throw away the key
01:21:20
and that's it."
01:21:22
>> And you know, and that's coming from who
01:21:25
I thought was the enemy
01:21:27
>> my whole life. Um, I seen police
01:21:30
officers as enemy forever
01:21:34
>> because of what I seen in our own home,
01:21:36
>> seen in our neighborhood and stuff like
01:21:38
that with Faro, you know. So, to
01:21:42
actually hear that from from a police
01:21:44
officer was like, wow.
01:21:46
>> Yeah.
01:21:48
>> So,
01:21:49
>> felt like he he was sort of on your side
01:21:50
in a way.
01:21:51
>> It did.
01:21:52
>> Yeah.
01:21:52
>> And there was no strings attached to it,
01:21:55
>> you know. I sort of genuinely
01:21:58
like Yeah. I felt
01:22:02
something different from him.
01:22:05
>> Yeah.
01:22:08
>> So, so you you made the change.
01:22:09
>> Was it a good or was it a gradual thing
01:22:11
with a couple of um speed bumps along
01:22:13
the way?
01:22:14
>> Yeah. So, um I I did this program that
01:22:18
really gave me some real good resources
01:22:21
and tools to be honest. um that helped
01:22:24
me not just in my relationship but in my
01:22:27
own journey of
01:22:30
I guess
01:22:32
not just self-discovery but you know
01:22:35
dealing with childhood traumas and and
01:22:38
stuff like that and you know just really
01:22:40
getting to understand what was going on
01:22:44
um and why it was happening and stuff
01:22:46
like that and you know that
01:22:50
really helped me out and you know I was
01:22:52
able to apply I a lot of those tools in
01:22:54
into my life and Yeah.
01:22:59
>> How long have you been um Do you still
01:23:01
drink at all or No,
01:23:02
>> no. Just doesn't agree with you.
01:23:05
>> Yeah. What about
01:23:06
>> jail put me in there? Oh, drinky put me
01:23:08
in in jail, you know. So, I don't really
01:23:11
I don't typically like alcohol. Um like
01:23:16
I didn't I wasn't a heavy drinker
01:23:18
anyway. I was more of a drugs. Hey,
01:23:21
drugs was my my thing.
01:23:23
>> So, yeah, alcohol wasn't really a
01:23:26
>> So, when was the last time you drunk or
01:23:28
smoked meth?
01:23:29
>> Oh, last night. No,
01:23:34
>> on the weekend.
01:23:35
>> Just for clarification. So, yesterday,
01:23:37
we're recording this on a Saturday. On
01:23:39
the Friday, you had a day on the farm
01:23:40
and then you were out diving for
01:23:42
crayfish at like midnight.
01:23:44
>> Yeah. No, that that is my that's my drug
01:23:46
now. E.
01:23:47
>> Yeah. That's your outlet, your voice.
01:23:49
Yeah. Hey, that that's my the thing that
01:23:51
fills my cup
01:23:53
>> is is my family and also I love I love
01:23:57
diving but my passion is is in is in
01:24:00
working the fenoa working with with
01:24:03
animals
01:24:04
>> but also teaching um you know people
01:24:08
about the agriculture sector. M I quite
01:24:12
enjoy that and showing the life of a New
01:24:15
Zealand farmer
01:24:17
>> and and somebody who has come out of
01:24:20
that I guess system or their lifestyle
01:24:24
>> um and can make something of themselves,
01:24:27
you know, just I guess a a glimmer of
01:24:30
hope for for
01:24:32
>> those ones that are sitting in in in
01:24:34
jail, you know, that that it doesn't
01:24:37
have to be it.
01:24:39
>> Yeah. So, your life looks pretty good
01:24:41
now.
01:24:42
>> It does.
01:24:43
>> What about um um the domestic violence?
01:24:46
When was the last time you you and Nikki
01:24:49
have your sweet now?
01:24:50
>> Oh, it's more her now.
01:24:54
I'm the one getting the hiding these
01:24:55
days, mate. Hey, no. Um yeah, just a air
01:25:00
bash.
01:25:03
No, but domestic violence, bro. None.
01:25:06
No,
01:25:07
>> it's um it's cuz you You've got this
01:25:10
like this piece this inner piece about
01:25:12
you now.
01:25:13
>> Yeah. Uh I'm content with life now. E um
01:25:16
I've got my three-year-old daughter
01:25:18
who's just watching every single step
01:25:20
that
01:25:20
>> that I'm taking.
01:25:22
>> Uh she's looking at everything that we
01:25:25
do together and yeah, she's just soaking
01:25:28
it in. And I don't want her to see that.
01:25:31
>> Um I don't want her to grow up
01:25:34
>> with domestic violence and stuff like
01:25:36
that.
01:25:36
>> Yeah. Cuz it's all for kids. It's all
01:25:38
one and lost in the first thousand days.
01:25:40
Something like like 80% of the brain
01:25:42
development, everything they know about
01:25:43
like, you know, healthy relationships
01:25:45
and
01:25:46
>> everything, it's all done in those first
01:25:48
few years.
01:25:49
>> I'm not saying that I'm I'm perfect or
01:25:51
I'm the best. But I I want to give my
01:25:54
daughter everything that I didn't get
01:25:56
and more,
01:25:57
>> you know. Um like yeah, I just want to
01:26:00
show her a life that
01:26:03
>> Yeah. It just gives her so much I guess
01:26:06
freedom and opportunity
01:26:10
um where she can just I guess dream big.
01:26:14
Yeah. I just Yeah. I want the best for
01:26:16
for my daughters.
01:26:18
>> How would you feel if you heard that
01:26:20
when she's seven an older cousin gives
01:26:21
her weed?
01:26:23
>> Oh
01:26:24
>> yeah.
01:26:27
>> It's so young. E
01:26:28
>> so young when you started, bro.
01:26:30
>> I know.
01:26:31
>> It's crazy. Like even even when I think
01:26:33
of my older daughters, I'll just put
01:26:35
this back up like you know and
01:26:40
going to jail at 15 14 15
01:26:43
>> like when my girls were 14 and 15
01:26:46
>> like
01:26:47
>> they were at school, you know,
01:26:50
um really they do really awesome uh at
01:26:54
heights and stuff like that. But they're
01:26:57
involved in so much sports so far out.
01:27:01
Like is this is this what 15y olds do?
01:27:05
>> Yeah. Normal healthy 15y olds. Yeah.
01:27:07
Now, how does your your past um still
01:27:09
impact your life today? Like in terms of
01:27:12
I guess like like judgment and
01:27:15
>> Oh, people always going to judge.
01:27:16
>> Yeah.
01:27:17
>> You know, that's just the unfortunate
01:27:19
part of life. M um but you know it
01:27:22
doesn't really impact me so much
01:27:26
nowadays but you know I'll always have
01:27:31
in the back of my mind the family
01:27:34
they'll always be there
01:27:37
um yeah I've always
01:27:39
>> Don's family
01:27:41
>> so in everything that I do I'm always
01:27:43
quite cautious of
01:27:46
um how I
01:27:50
yeah how I sort of portray things cuz I
01:27:53
don't want to hurt their family anymore
01:27:55
than what they you know they're already
01:27:57
doing a life sentence like you said
01:27:59
>> and they don't need to
01:28:00
>> have anymore you know
01:28:02
>> so I always try and um think about my
01:28:05
actions and how that may affect them
01:28:09
>> and myself and my and my family say
01:28:11
>> yeah
01:28:13
so uh 2024 um you win the award young
01:28:16
moldy the farmer of the year.
01:28:18
>> Yeah.
01:28:18
>> Yeah. Was Was everyone okay with that or
01:28:21
were there some people that were like,
01:28:23
"Oh, this guy shouldn't win because of
01:28:25
his past or
01:28:27
>> Definitely. There's so many people who
01:28:30
don't think that I deserve to be where I
01:28:31
am today."
01:28:32
>> You know, some people definitely think
01:28:34
that I should be still in jail cell
01:28:36
rotting,
01:28:37
>> you know, with the key thrown away,
01:28:39
never to be found. Um,
01:28:42
but
01:28:44
uh I want to change and I've got it. Um,
01:28:48
I wanted to be better. Uh, I wanted to
01:28:50
change the cycle for for my family.
01:28:54
>> Um, and you know, I
01:28:59
yeah, the the judgment's always going to
01:29:00
be there. But I think for me, like,
01:29:05
as long as I I believe in myself and
01:29:08
I've got the right support around me,
01:29:10
like, yeah, I don't think that I could
01:29:12
fall over.
01:29:14
>> I've got my wife, I've got my kids, um,
01:29:16
who are 100% behind me, got my family,
01:29:20
um, my friends, my my boys who I go
01:29:22
diving with, and everyone's sort of
01:29:24
keeping me on track. M
01:29:26
>> um and you know I've got to give it up
01:29:28
to my team and you know my wife is
01:29:31
probably the leading part of of of all
01:29:34
of it you know so
01:29:36
>> is um
01:29:39
is New Zealand a hard country to get
01:29:41
redemption in
01:29:43
>> Yeah sure.
01:29:44
>> Yeah. Like we've we've got so much
01:29:47
things that go on here in tall puppy
01:29:50
syndrome here in Al is rubbish.
01:29:52
>> It's probably the
01:29:53
>> Oh, it's just Yeah, it's disgusting.
01:29:55
It's ugly. It is. It's real ugly.
01:29:57
>> Yeah. And you know, like
01:29:59
>> a lot of it's centered around jealousy,
01:30:01
I think.
01:30:01
>> Yeah, for sure. Exactly. It's a It's a
01:30:03
strange phenomenon syndrome.
01:30:05
>> Yeah. Especially here in Oh, I don't
01:30:07
know what it is, but you know, people
01:30:09
just don't want to see people
01:30:10
succeeding.
01:30:11
>> And you know, they don't want to see
01:30:13
people change.
01:30:14
>> Yeah.
01:30:15
>> So, and then when you do change, it's
01:30:17
like, no, we want you to go back to how
01:30:19
you were because we were benefiting
01:30:21
>> of that person. You know,
01:30:23
>> it's kind like you're damned if you do,
01:30:24
damned if you don't. It's like you you
01:30:26
you you're like a dream outcome. This is
01:30:27
what you can't log people up forever.
01:30:30
>> No.
01:30:30
>> Um so the the dream result is that
01:30:32
someone goes through does the crime,
01:30:34
does the time
01:30:35
>> and then um completely changes their
01:30:37
life. Like I've had another guy on the
01:30:39
podcast, Dr. Paul Wood,
01:30:40
>> who's um he he murdered his drug dealer
01:30:43
when he was 18 and uh did 10 years um
01:30:46
>> got a couple of degrees when he was
01:30:48
inside and he's changed his life around
01:30:49
and you know there's still Yeah.
01:30:53
Yeah,
01:30:54
>> it's a good lesson in a way, I guess, in
01:30:56
that, you know, you your past does stick
01:30:59
with you.
01:31:00
>> Yes. And you know, I'm not going to let
01:31:02
it define who I am,
01:31:04
>> but it it is now a part of my my story.
01:31:09
>> Um, and yeah, with that, I I want to
01:31:14
share it so
01:31:16
>> yeah, I can help others. M
01:31:19
>> um what other awards have you won? Yeah.
01:31:22
So I won Dahu Fininoa Young Moldi Farmer
01:31:25
2024 and then the following the
01:31:29
following week
01:31:31
um
01:31:32
oh no sorry before winning AU Finoa I
01:31:36
won dairy manager of the year uh for the
01:31:38
central plateau and then uh went to
01:31:42
nationals down in Queenstown where I won
01:31:44
the people and leadership award at the
01:31:47
nationals and then the following week
01:31:50
after nationals was uh won young multi
01:31:53
farmer of the year. Uh which was it was
01:31:56
an epic night. Like that was amazing. Uh
01:32:00
but the leadup to it like going back
01:32:04
three years
01:32:06
I lost I actually
01:32:09
I didn't win the Au Finoa and that had
01:32:12
like a pretty big uh effect on me
01:32:16
>> um mentally and
01:32:18
>> did it why?
01:32:20
Um, I don't know. I think cuz I
01:32:24
I put so much money in like I didn't
01:32:27
think that I won it, but yeah, I thought
01:32:31
that I had put in enough work um then,
01:32:36
but obviously, hey, I needed I needed
01:32:38
some more growing. I needed some more
01:32:40
developing. Um, so I went back to the
01:32:42
drawing board
01:32:44
>> and I showed up again. Um so for so it's
01:32:49
every 3 year rollover for AU Finoa. Um
01:32:52
so I lost that year. So for the next 3
01:32:54
years I really wanted to do all that I
01:32:57
could to prepare
01:32:59
>> um to come back again. And hey I was
01:33:03
willing to turn up as many times as I
01:33:07
could
01:33:09
um not just for myself but for my far
01:33:12
>> and stuff like that.
01:33:14
and just to show that hey you can fall
01:33:17
over but it's up to you what happens
01:33:19
from there
01:33:20
>> and it was the same with the industry
01:33:21
awards uh so I done it for four years in
01:33:24
a row and for three of those years I I
01:33:30
one year I didn't even place at all
01:33:32
>> I was I was always in the top five
01:33:34
>> uh for each year that I did uh do the
01:33:37
awards and yeah it took four years
01:33:40
before I actually took it out
01:33:42
>> um so yeah
01:33:43
I'm pretty when I sort of fix myself on
01:33:46
something, I I I want to go for it.
01:33:49
>> Yeah. Like a dog with a b.
01:33:50
>> Yeah. Um and yeah, that was sort of
01:33:53
tunnel vision for uh for last year for
01:33:56
the manager of the year. It's like, you
01:33:58
know, I've put in all this mahi over the
01:34:00
last few years and this year I want to
01:34:02
give it a bit more
01:34:04
>> to see where I get.
01:34:06
>> Oh, good for you. And what about the
01:34:07
social media stuff? Where did that
01:34:09
start? You've got um um I checked you
01:34:11
out. farm RPZ. Um, your top Tik Tok's
01:34:15
got 22 million views.
01:34:17
>> Is it
01:34:18
>> 22 million views? Yeah. Which is
01:34:19
massive. It's an Yeah. unfathom fathom
01:34:23
fathomable amount of people.
01:34:24
>> Is that one where a cow's [ __ ] on
01:34:26
you or
01:34:27
>> uh it might be. Yeah. It might be the
01:34:29
one where the cow's [ __ ] on me or it
01:34:32
could be the one where I'm eating
01:34:34
crayfish and stuff like that. Um, but
01:34:37
yeah, again, it's just sharing the life
01:34:40
of a New Zealand farmer, a New
01:34:42
Zealander. Hey, living the life. And
01:34:45
yeah, I see a rural as as a really
01:34:49
awesome lifestyle
01:34:51
>> to bring your kids up. And yeah, I
01:34:53
really want to sort of
01:34:55
>> um I guess show it a bit more to attract
01:34:58
a lot more people into it cuz
01:35:00
>> Yeah.
01:35:02
um with social media and you know yeah
01:35:04
there's an upside but there's also a
01:35:06
downside as well like do you do you have
01:35:08
to block a lot of people?
01:35:09
>> Um people come at you in the comments.
01:35:12
>> Yeah heaps really saying what oh just
01:35:15
bringing up the past and
01:35:16
>> Oh not so much that like more
01:35:20
um people just trying to drag you down
01:35:22
you know like I was saying that tall
01:35:23
poppy syndrome.
01:35:24
>> Yeah. Hey, like a lot of people here at
01:35:26
Ulti at all just I don't know they don't
01:35:28
want to see people succeed
01:35:30
>> and they just want to pull you down. So,
01:35:33
um some of that we block and some people
01:35:36
do try to bring up the past but
01:35:39
>> I guess it doesn't affect you that much.
01:35:42
um you know I see more of the positive
01:35:45
stuff that's coming up like there's
01:35:48
thousands more positive things than
01:35:50
negatives uh that are coming through on
01:35:52
social media
01:35:53
>> and you know it's more around I guess
01:35:56
memories you know like we've got an
01:35:58
older generation that are sort of coming
01:36:00
through on social media saying thank you
01:36:02
for sharing because it's just brought
01:36:05
back memories of my childhood
01:36:07
>> with my dad or my core on the farm you
01:36:10
know which which is quite Um,
01:36:12
heartwarming I guess.
01:36:14
>> No, it's lovely.
01:36:16
>> And what about the high fist clothing?
01:36:18
You got a clothing label as well, eh?
01:36:20
>> Yes. So, we launched our clothing last
01:36:24
year uh sort of off the back of uh all
01:36:26
the awards. Oh, might have been prior to
01:36:29
the awards actually. Sorry. And yeah, so
01:36:32
we launched this this clothing.
01:36:36
And we started it
01:36:39
um to help uh people with Kai, you know.
01:36:44
So um my wife and I were sort of forking
01:36:48
out um at that time out of our own
01:36:51
pocket
01:36:52
>> uh to help some families that were in
01:36:54
need in our community. So we're just
01:36:56
going down to the shopping, buying $100
01:36:58
worth of grocery and sort of giving it
01:37:00
to a faro.
01:37:02
>> And you know, that was just getting too
01:37:04
hard on us financially.
01:37:06
um putting a lot of pressure on our
01:37:08
home. So yeah, we we started this
01:37:11
clothing and I didn't like the clothing
01:37:14
that's in farming at the moment too.
01:37:17
So that was another reason why I why I
01:37:20
wanted to start my own clothing and have
01:37:22
my own wardrobe. Um so
01:37:24
>> it's really really cool. What's the
01:37:25
what's the name? What's
01:37:27
>> uh the name is Kamu to Pamu, which means
01:37:29
calm your farm. Uh so
01:37:31
>> and it's cool. It's like h with um moldy
01:37:34
designs. Yeah. So, we've got singlets.
01:37:37
We've got our H highos range, which is
01:37:39
our working range uh which is uh
01:37:43
highlighted pink, yellow, and orange uh
01:37:47
in hoodies and shirts. And then, yeah,
01:37:50
we've got a whole other range of of
01:37:51
kakahoo as well. And yeah, it sort of
01:37:55
started taking off after winning the
01:37:57
awards. And then we just featured on
01:37:59
Country Calendar uh just recently. And
01:38:03
yeah, uh it just went crazy. Um so we
01:38:08
sold out two or three times and yeah, it
01:38:11
was just hard to try to keep up with
01:38:13
with the sales, the demand and yeah, we
01:38:17
finally just got on top of things. So
01:38:19
it's at a manageable stage right now.
01:38:21
>> Unreal. Unreal. So how can people access
01:38:24
it? What's the easiest way to find it?
01:38:25
>> Uh so online kamu.co.
01:38:29
Mhm.
01:38:29
>> Otherwise, you can find us on social
01:38:31
media kamu or flick me a message on farm
01:38:37
>> and I I'll send that to you.
01:38:38
>> Amazing. Um, what would your advice be
01:38:40
for anyone listening to this who is at
01:38:42
their say own version of rock bottom
01:38:44
right now?
01:38:46
>> Yeah, maybe someone is listening to this
01:38:48
that's living in a car on me,
01:38:50
incarcerated, whatever it happens to be.
01:38:58
But don't give up. E,
01:39:00
>> don't give up. Hey, there there's
01:39:02
another day.
01:39:04
There'll be another sunrise tomorrow to
01:39:07
give give life another go. Um, yeah,
01:39:12
just don't give up. Don't be afraid to
01:39:14
ask for help.
01:39:16
I think that's where I let myself down a
01:39:19
lot was not allowing myself to ask for
01:39:22
help.
01:39:23
>> And so, don't be afraid to ask for help.
01:39:25
There's always people out there that are
01:39:26
willing to help. M
01:39:28
>> um more than what we think.
01:39:31
>> Yeah.
01:39:31
>> Hey, and yeah, if you if you need reach
01:39:37
out to someone, I'm always happy. Hey,
01:39:39
people always reach out on on my social
01:39:41
media for help for whatever. And if we
01:39:46
can point you in a in a direction that
01:39:47
can get you that help, then I'll be more
01:39:51
than willing to do that.
01:39:53
>> Do you do you do you consider yourself a
01:39:55
role model? um
01:39:59
an example. Yeah.
01:40:01
>> Uh especially for our our young ones
01:40:05
that are coming up.
01:40:07
>> And yeah, I really have a heart for for
01:40:11
our our youth, our young ones, cuz man,
01:40:14
like
01:40:16
yeah, imagine just like you were saying
01:40:18
earlier, um 7 years old.
01:40:23
>> I can't imagine that anymore. M
01:40:26
>> so young painfully young
01:40:28
>> and and it doesn't need to happen like
01:40:30
yeah so
01:40:32
>> if you could go back and talk to like a
01:40:35
young Ben 7y old Ben 5-year-old Ben
01:40:37
whatever it happens to be
01:40:39
>> what would you tell him? Oh, I've said
01:40:42
it before like sorry for for the way
01:40:44
that things was, but I think um
01:40:50
if I could go back and and tell my
01:40:52
younger self something
01:40:54
more like blurry buck your ideas up and
01:40:56
use your ears e go to school learn
01:40:59
something
01:41:01
um like yeah do something with yourself
01:41:05
>> and yeah
01:41:09
not saying
01:41:10
Life is bad now. It's really good now.
01:41:13
But
01:41:14
>> hey, had had I not had the support
01:41:17
around me, I probably wouldn't be
01:41:18
sitting here with you talking about this
01:41:21
stuff to be honest.
01:41:22
>> And I I know for 100% if I didn't have
01:41:26
my wife
01:41:27
>> and my family, I wouldn't be here.
01:41:30
>> I would probably still be in jail.
01:41:32
>> Yeah.
01:41:34
>> So Don's family have forgiven you. Do
01:41:37
you forgive you?
01:41:38
>> I have. Yeah.
01:41:40
>> Yeah.
01:41:40
>> Did it take a while?
01:41:41
>> It did.
01:41:42
>> Even after that process,
01:41:45
even long after that process,
01:41:47
>> I sort of it sort of comes and goes. Um
01:41:51
so, you know, there'll be a long period
01:41:53
of time where I sort of just coasting
01:41:55
through life and then it sort of just
01:41:57
hits, you know.
01:41:58
>> Um sort of comes around to that time of
01:42:00
the year and it's like it hits again.
01:42:05
>> It's sort of a reminder. M
01:42:07
>> um and but it I I think it it's also a
01:42:11
good reminder for for myself. It gives
01:42:14
me a bit of a checkup.
01:42:16
>> Um yeah, where I can
01:42:20
actually think about it and say, "Yep,
01:42:23
that situation happened. Here we are
01:42:25
today. Let's go."
01:42:28
>> Yeah. How often Yeah. How often do you
01:42:31
catch yourself um thinking about Dawn
01:42:33
and his family now? So, is it is it like
01:42:35
a like a weekly thing, a monthly thing,
01:42:37
a daily thing? Is it just always there
01:42:39
or
01:42:41
>> uh it's not always there? Um but
01:42:45
like like
01:42:47
at least a few times a year, you know,
01:42:50
>> I'm always thinking about their family.
01:42:51
>> Yeah.
01:42:52
>> Um especially about uh and especially
01:42:54
cuz we have a relationship with the
01:42:56
brother now.
01:42:57
>> He's been over home, had a coffee and
01:42:59
and stuff like that. We've had dinner
01:43:01
with him and and things like that. and
01:43:03
he's met our daughter
01:43:05
>> and whatnot and like yeah so and also on
01:43:10
social media like always see them pop up
01:43:12
and yeah
01:43:16
>> like they're big people.
01:43:19
>> Yeah.
01:43:20
>> Amazing. Like to have a heart like that
01:43:24
is is is
01:43:27
nothing that you come across every day,
01:43:29
you know. Um because there's forgiveness
01:43:33
um like on different levels like I
01:43:34
suppose they could forgive you for
01:43:35
selfish reasons just because they don't
01:43:37
want to be hanging on to that hurt
01:43:39
>> but then to come and visit you and
01:43:41
engage with you on social media that's
01:43:43
like um
01:43:44
>> well that's sincere and genuine
01:43:46
forgiveness.
01:43:46
>> That's right. And like for that example
01:43:50
of coming over home, like he was going
01:43:53
through
01:43:55
our our town heading to go see his
01:43:58
family and he flick me a message to say
01:44:01
that he's passing through and that he
01:44:02
wants to stop in,
01:44:03
>> you know, like just to actually have
01:44:05
that go through that process of, you
01:44:08
know, wanting to come and see me is
01:44:10
huge. So yeah, there is forgiveness and
01:44:13
then there's this
01:44:14
>> you know this is on another level
01:44:18
and you know I'm grateful and honored
01:44:21
like to have that in my life cuz yeah
01:44:26
again I probably wouldn't have forgiven
01:44:30
myself without that process taking
01:44:32
place.
01:44:34
>> What about your co-offenders?
01:44:37
Do you know what they're up to? No,
01:44:39
>> no,
01:44:40
>> no, not at all.
01:44:41
>> Um, yeah, last I heard they were still
01:44:45
in jail
01:44:46
>> and yeah, sort of,
01:44:49
>> you know,
01:44:50
>> like they must be so jealous of you, but
01:44:52
like it's none of this has been easy and
01:44:54
no one else can do the work. Nikki can't
01:44:56
do the work for you.
01:44:57
>> No,
01:44:57
>> no one else can do the work for you. You
01:44:59
have to do it yourself. But they must be
01:45:00
so jealous cuz you've you've done it and
01:45:03
you found happiness on the on the other
01:45:04
side of all that hard work.
01:45:06
>> Um, yeah. Oh, I don't know if I'll call
01:45:09
it jealous. Um, I don't know how they
01:45:12
would be feeling to be honest. But hey,
01:45:14
if if if the shoe was on the other foot
01:45:17
and I seen one of my co-offenders doing
01:45:20
really well, bro, I would be like, [ __ ]
01:45:23
it's possible.
01:45:25
>> And if he can do it, why can't I?
01:45:28
>> Um, if he's where he is, then how come I
01:45:32
can't get there?
01:45:33
>> What's stopping me from getting there?
01:45:36
And to be honest, I would probably take
01:45:37
it to another step like I was saying
01:45:39
once I'm tunnel vision that that's it.
01:45:42
>> Um and ask them how did you do it?
01:45:47
>> What is the
01:45:50
>> Yeah, show me the steps. Show me the
01:45:51
path.
01:45:52
>> What's the recipe?
01:45:52
>> Yeah.
01:45:53
>> To to this and my answer would be the
01:45:57
support around you.
01:45:59
>> That is really important. Um and also
01:46:03
selfbelief.
01:46:05
believe it in yourself. Um that selft
01:46:08
talk um you know just I guess backing
01:46:12
yourself
01:46:14
>> you need a ya like if the why is strong
01:46:15
enough you'll figure out the how.
01:46:17
>> Yeah.
01:46:18
>> Where do you see yourself um in the
01:46:20
future? Like where do you see yourself
01:46:21
at 40 50
01:46:24
>> traveling the world? Do you
01:46:25
>> I hope.
01:46:26
>> Yeah. Where Yeah. What's the story with
01:46:28
that? Do travel restrictions get lifted
01:46:30
after a
01:46:31
>> N not with three charges e manslaughter,
01:46:33
murder and and rape. I think they stay
01:46:36
with you forever. Don't quote me on
01:46:38
that, but yeah, I'm pretty sure it's
01:46:40
those three. And we've been to Thailand.
01:46:45
We just recently went to Thailand. Uh
01:46:47
been there twice and then we went to
01:46:49
Raaro with my whole family. But you
01:46:52
know, even going to Raaro was was wasn't
01:46:55
easy. still have to apply and and stuff
01:46:58
like that. Um and yeah, and definitely
01:47:01
can't get into Aussie. So
01:47:04
>> really
01:47:04
>> can can scratch that one. Um yeah,
01:47:07
applied four times and been denied four
01:47:09
times. So yeah,
01:47:11
>> I want to know where the antic spirits
01:47:13
at.
01:47:14
>> And I want given that that was uh that
01:47:16
was originally a a colony where my
01:47:20
convicts from the UK were sent.
01:47:21
>> That's where they were all sent was
01:47:23
there.
01:47:24
They stop letting criminals in.
01:47:26
>> Yeah.
01:47:27
>> But yeah, it's um Hey, I got a lot of
01:47:31
fun in Aussie and I would love to go to
01:47:33
Australia.
01:47:34
>> Um and like yeah, I got my my my little
01:47:38
sister over there as well who's just had
01:47:40
her had her baby and I would love to go
01:47:42
visit them.
01:47:44
>> Um but unfortunately these are the
01:47:46
consequences of my actions.
01:47:48
>> And hey, I've got to I've got to wear
01:47:50
that. Mhm.
01:47:51
>> Um, and yeah, that's just that's life.
01:47:54
E.
01:47:55
>> Yeah.
01:47:55
>> But I think where do I see myself in the
01:47:58
future is
01:48:03
I think like with our clothing and that
01:48:05
we want to take that to another level.
01:48:07
Um, and also with farming with with the
01:48:12
farming industry. Um, you know, we we'll
01:48:17
eventually get to ownership uh for sure.
01:48:20
And like we had this massive ass dream
01:48:22
dom of setting up a farm for for guys
01:48:25
coming out of jail.
01:48:26
>> Sort of like a a halfway uh before they
01:48:29
go on to full-time employment. You know,
01:48:31
we had this massive dream of of getting
01:48:33
that all going. And you know, there's so
01:48:35
many people that that are keen to jump
01:48:37
on board. It's just, you know, we're
01:48:40
financially not able to do that
01:48:42
>> yet
01:48:42
>> and yet and, you know, it's quite a big
01:48:46
project to be honest,
01:48:48
>> but I think it'll be really rewarding to
01:48:50
get that up and going.
01:48:52
>> Um, and help people
01:48:56
get to where I am and beyond. You know,
01:48:59
just imagine that more people coming out
01:49:01
of jail and changing their lives and,
01:49:04
you know, becoming, it's not even just
01:49:06
in the farming industry. It could be in
01:49:08
any any industry to be honest.
01:49:10
>> Um but there's just nothing at the
01:49:12
moment
01:49:13
>> for people coming out of jail.
01:49:16
>> You get out of jail with a criminal
01:49:17
record, there's no way that you're
01:49:19
getting a job.
01:49:20
>> Uh so how can we bridge that gap? And
01:49:23
yeah, I feel like a a transition farm or
01:49:26
or something that's going to help
01:49:28
support them with whatever issues that
01:49:30
they have will really help that
01:49:33
situation.
01:49:35
>> That's a good goal. Yeah,
01:49:36
>> it's a good goal. Are you proud of
01:49:37
yourself?
01:49:38
>> Definitely definitely proud of myself.
01:49:41
I'm probably more um proud of my wife
01:49:45
for stay with me to be honest.
01:49:48
Like I don't know why or how you know
01:49:52
like but I'm so
01:49:54
>> I have to get her on a podcast to unpack
01:49:56
all that.
01:49:56
>> Oh no, thank you.
01:50:00
>> Uh but no, she's she's got an amazing
01:50:03
story too, you know. Um, yeah, she's
01:50:07
Yeah, I've got to give it up to her like
01:50:10
not just for sticking with me, but
01:50:13
for getting us here
01:50:15
as much as people say, "Well, you done
01:50:17
the mahi. You you showed up to the
01:50:19
awards and all that sort of stuff." But
01:50:22
without having her beside me,
01:50:27
bro, this I wouldn't have been able to
01:50:29
do it. like, yeah, I needed her um every
01:50:33
step of this way because she she knows
01:50:37
me. She knows my
01:50:40
I guess my um
01:50:43
my struggles and all that sort of stuff.
01:50:44
And you know, she sort of knows where to
01:50:46
fill in
01:50:47
>> and and show up so and encourage
01:50:51
um and yeah, she's she's amazing.
01:50:57
>> I reckon that's a good place to end it.
01:50:59
Yeah.
01:51:00
>> Yeah. Nice bow on the chat. How's it
01:51:02
been? You You've been anxious about this
01:51:05
for the last couple of days.
01:51:06
>> I know. I feel I could carry on talking
01:51:08
to you for the rest of the day, to be
01:51:10
honest.
01:51:11
>> Has it been all right?
01:51:12
>> It has. Um Yeah. Thank you for this
01:51:14
opportunity. Hey, um the nerves aren't
01:51:17
there anymore, but hey,
01:51:22
yeah, I'm very grateful to to have this
01:51:25
opportunity, Dom, to be honest.
01:51:26
>> Yeah. Oh, thanks for being here today,
01:51:28
Ben. And um thanks for sharing. I know
01:51:30
there there'll be a lot of people that
01:51:31
get a lot out of this conversation. No,
01:51:32
>> thank you.
01:51:33
>> That's cool.
01:51:35
>> Nice work, brother.
01:51:36
>> Cheers.
