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Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

October 27, 2022 / 01:16:33

This episode features Nikki K, former deputy leader of the National Party, discussing her experiences with cancer, mental well-being, and her journey in politics. Key topics include her resignation from cabinet, running events, and personal growth.

Nikki K shares her emotional experience of resigning from cabinet after her cancer diagnosis, revealing how she felt detached from her body during that moment. She recounts her conversation with Prime Minister John Key, who insisted she remain in her position.

The conversation shifts to Nikki's athletic background, including her participation in the Coast to Coast multi-sport event and her early achievements in running. She reflects on the lessons learned from these experiences and how they shaped her perspective on life.

Nikki discusses her family background, including her parents' separation and the impact it had on her childhood. She emphasizes the importance of resilience and coping with change, drawing from her own life experiences.

TL;DR

Nikki K discusses her cancer journey, political career, and personal growth in this candid episode.

Episode

1:16:33

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g'day thank you very much for joining me

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for this week's episode of Runners only

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with dom Harvey coming up Nikki k for me

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it was like I was hovering over my own

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body going this isn't like this is not

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[ __ ] happening and this is not me and

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this is not

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you know then I was incredibly upset and

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so I rang Paula and um she said we'll

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have to get the PM by himself because

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it'll knock him over a bit so we'll

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we'll get him when he's out of some of

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the stuff anyway he rang a bit earlier

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and I said look I offered my resignation

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um from cabinet and he just said you're

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not [ __ ] going anywhere Nikki K is

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best known as being the former deputy

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leader of the national party but she is

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so much more than that she's done the

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coast to coast multi-sport event a few

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times and was even an age group running

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champ in her teens that came after her

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marijuana phase we'll get into that

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she's many more things as well she's a

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cancer survivor this was a shock

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diagnosis that she got when she was a

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cabinet minister in John Key's

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government and yeah she was a politician

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and you know what they say once a

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politician always a politician so I need

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to warn you she does her very best to

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avoid saying too much but I did give it

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a red hot crack actually you know what

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that's probably a little unfair um she

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was quite guarded about a lot of stuff

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especially stuff that involved other

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people but when it came to the really

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important stuff like the cancer mental

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well-being and therapy she could not

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have been more open than what she was

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and I really thank her for that I really

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enjoyed my afternoon with Nikki K and I

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hope you guys do as well all right let's

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get into it

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[Music]

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fast-paced slow and steady anyway you

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coming up just wanna connect for

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everyone who loves running this is

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fast paced slow and steady anyway you

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coming just wanna connect for everyone

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who loves running hey Runners only with

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dime Harley

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Runners only with gum Harvey and Nikki K

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hello welcome to my podcast Lounge

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so how are you Nikki Kay I'm good I'm

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really good actually yeah it's been I

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mean it's been

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um a sort of set of people uh sort of

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ripped up the former life like he

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couldn't really

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do more than kind of resign your job

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sold my house bought some land on the

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barrier

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and then sort of basically changed

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everything up so that can so there's

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sort of been uncertainty and there's

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been some tough times but overall I'm

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very very relaxed and very good yeah you

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look really good like I I just greeted

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you outside before and you're looking

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casual you got last time I saw you I

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guess it was um probably on TV and the

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most stressed out time of your career

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you know the final seven weeks is Deputy

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leader of national and you look like a

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completely different person now yeah it

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was it was yeah I mean it was obviously

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a pretty difficult time

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um and it's so much stress so physically

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now you know you just everything from

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exercise to nutrition yeah just just

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relaxed well that's really good I'm I'm

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really really happy for you there's

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there's um so much for us to talk about

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yes uh first of all the podcast is

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called Runners only and um you I mean

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you've done a lot over the years you've

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done multi-sport events you've done

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Coast to Coast have you done an Iron Man

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no no I've done um lazy yeah no I'm

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bloody lazy I'd love to I'd love to but

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I can't I think I swim like I don't know

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a bang leg like I

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don't think I'm a very good swimmer and

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also

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I thought oh yeah maybe one day I could

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do the kind of Iron Man then I realized

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like that's like full-on you have to

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actually qualify for some of these right

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yeah it's so hot apparently it would be

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amazing the way it's like the Holy Grail

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yeah yeah yeah I mean I think

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right um but the experience of going

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places so my mate and I

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um well she reckons she's into that us

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but we're on a waiting list for the

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Antarctica

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um Mark I wouldn't love to do that but

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it's real it's bloody expensive yeah do

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you go to Chile you go down on a boat I

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think from Chile but I was actually just

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looking at my emails because it said

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that we were like well waitlisted or

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whatever for I think next year but um I

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think it's really hard to get into but

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that whole thing about

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um

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doing more experiences when I'm doing

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events and so I kind of think that's

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kind of probably how I plot although I

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am today I

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um put an entry in for a ballot for a

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Mountain Run Spot for the coast to coast

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so oh cool yeah awesome that's um yeah

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goats past that's an incredible well

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it's not really a runner that it's like

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a screen scrambling over rocks and going

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through Rivers more of a climb swim

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depending on the

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um on the conditions I think I was just

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trying to think how many times I've done

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it I've done the Run

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because four times but again it's so

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beautiful the thing about the coast to

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coast is you meet a lot of people who

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have kind of been through a lot like I

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remember I was

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um

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running at the bottom of goats passed

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across the boulders through the river

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and I saw this glint in the distance and

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Australian very sorry for myself you

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know you feel the pain you feel burned

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and I saw this guy and I got closer to

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him and he had one leg

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and so he was going up go past with a

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metal like a metal stump so yeah right

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he didn't make it I think that year but

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other years I think he has made it but

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it just sort of unreal it's that kind of

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race where you meet incredible

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yeah it gives you some perspective it

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does yeah it does and like I meet people

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like

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we were like oh sort of you know I had

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no idea about this but um you were no

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slouch like when you were at school you

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were like the uh the Auckland or the New

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Zealand 3000 meter champ

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what's the time can you remember your

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time what about like 10 minutes

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uh pass right how do you not remember

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that that's a that's a hell of an

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achievement I think I actually came

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second but the other person was

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disqualified drugs I don't know but and

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then I bumped it bumped up right right

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so not that that's a defense for not

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remembering my time yeah

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um but yeah I mean I you know I wasn't

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um I was pretty naughty at school and

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then basically I don't believe that no I

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was actually you were here prefect at

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one of you but I was I was naughty like

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when I was 13 or 14 and actually I went

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to my principal and said I'm Gonna Leave

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because I'm kind of over this or

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whatever and she said I believe in you

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and that's when I actually sort of

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started running

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and and that gave me quite a lot of

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confidence right yeah it was sort of

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running what running gave me a level of

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confidence in life that I hadn't had

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before well how well what's um Nikki

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Kane already like were you were you were

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you betting younger kids with a beard

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lick no

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topical no I didn't I think um when they

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asked they went through all MPS and

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asked them you know

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smoke dope

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yeah and then they're like what age and

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I said

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um 14 and if the headline was minister

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of I think was minister or associate

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minister of Education smoke marijuana or

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14. he says like I mean yeah I was I was

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yeah I was naughty right that was I mean

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but everyone's have experiments don't

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they I mean it's probably quite young to

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be smoking a week yeah yeah I don't know

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I feel like it wouldn't even be a big

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deal now like a big deal obviously when

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you went into Parliament but less of a

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big deal now I don't know I don't know

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but I mean I was just I think I was just

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a bit angry with the world really why

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um my parents flew up when I was quite

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young okay and um but how young uh seven

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right

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um and at that age do you have if it

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happens when you're older it means more

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or is it like it's quite exciting a

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novelty thing at seven like you get two

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houses two bedrooms I think everybody's

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different it was pretty tough

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um and so I didn't see that much of my

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dad for quite a long time

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um and

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um yeah I mean it's sort of I I remember

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it being pretty tough

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um there's a lot of a lot of things that

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went on and so I think in my sort of

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teenage years I had grown up pretty

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quickly that's hard to look at it and I

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just felt

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no one really understands me which is a

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what a lot I mean I think a lot of

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people go through I've got I've got

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nieces and nephews

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um and I was saying look I think the

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biggest thing in life that I've learned

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is

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that being able to cope with change so

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it's not always going to go your way

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um but how can you deal with uncertainty

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and be able to kind of often there are

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sort of transitions in life and deal

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with deal with that change yeah yeah so

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I mean sort of a bit of a Cheesy way to

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look at it but I'm grateful for a lot of

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the things that occurred because I think

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you kind of

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you you often if you've been through any

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pain you have more compassion um yeah

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and it probably gives you some

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resilience as well I guess to her yeah

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yeah to a degree totally

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why did you not see Dad for a while were

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things just super strained with him and

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your mum or is it like a taking side

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sort of thing or um well then you've

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only spoken a couple of times

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since I was seven oh [ __ ] is that right

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yeah how many how many kids do they have

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together

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sad isn't it yeah

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yeah that's what it is yeah you can say

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it don't roll your eyes

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yeah I mean Jazz has been married um

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several times and I have a lot of half

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siblings

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um for Brother full sister and so yeah

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it means I mean there's a whole lot of

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other richness of

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of relationships that have happened as a

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result of that for instance

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um at the moment I've got called Emmy

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who are my um little half sisters and

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then I've got

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um Kate as well and Jamie and Rebecca

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and Simon Australia so you know it's

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it's it's yeah you get a whole lot of

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other richness that comes from it and

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you're good with the old man now I

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haven't seen that much of him over the

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years but I'm I've got also I was sort

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of brought up more by my stepfather

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through my um mum's been with since I

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was 10. and and he's been pretty

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incredible in terms of my life so you

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know it's a typical mix family there's

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complexity around all that stuff but I

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certainly think

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it helped when I was in Parliament

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because I think I

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could see a lot of different family

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situations and and when you've got that

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larger extended group usually you've

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been through something along that yeah

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and then my stepbrother

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um oh he's incarcerated in the states or

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something yeah yeah that's right right

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so that's that's been um that's been

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pretty challenging but again it's it's

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been remarkable because when you're in

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the public eye I think a lot of people

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are interested and they come talk to you

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about that stuff and it's amazing what

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they share as well about their family

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um and I think my experiences

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All Families have some stuff going on oh

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100 yeah 100 and that sort of um

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vulnerability I guess is key and when

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people know this about you and they know

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you're not perfect they feel like they

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can yeah share some of their intimate

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stuff with you so so what happened with

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your your step right hey he got in

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trouble in the states and then he

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stabbed someone in jail no it's all sort

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of

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um reluctant to go too much into it it's

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still cool stuff happening but they

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don't they don't [ __ ] around with their

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sentencing over there though do they

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yeah but um

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yeah it's a very difficult situation

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yeah it's always um if something really

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tough occurs as well

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the the scale of impact

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so obviously you've got a person who

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died their family you've got my mum and

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Neil you just it's just such a ripple

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effect of people that are impacted and

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so and that sort of all occurred within

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the same sort of year that I was

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diagnosed

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um so yeah with breast cancer yeah I do

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say

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my mom is

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kind of been incredible because

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I look at the things that she's sort of

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dealt with in life and I think

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um

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and and often these things do happen in

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short order don't they they sort of

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yeah they say like bad things happen in

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three or whatever yeah when it rains it

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pours yeah of course but I feel again

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you just got to be able to accept that

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as my grandmother say to me everything

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passes yeah it's a good one there's two

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Shall Pass yeah never and never never

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stays raining forever yeah

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yeah she had been through oh she had

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seen my grandfather pass away her son

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had died she'd been through a lot and

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she she sort of was pretty amazing in

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the latter years of her life she lived

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in 96 to just keep stressing

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um that everything

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does pass

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sure the older Generations it reminds me

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of my grandparents like they they just

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they seem more resilient hey we're tough

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than what we are I don't know I don't

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know what that is so maybe it's going

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through Wars or depressions or things

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like that or I don't know they just

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mental illness just wasn't sort of a

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thing or wasn't allowed to be a thing I

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think there are different pressures for

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a lot of people now and that obviously

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everything online the amount of

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um information coming at people and if

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you're in a slightly negative headspace

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and then you choose to read a whole lot

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of negative things that can be pretty

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overwhelming yeah

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um I remember asking sir Peter glockman

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actually Chief science advisor when I

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was briefly minister of Education what

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did he think

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was the trend given that we'd seen this

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sort of increasing mental health and he

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said

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likely the online environment so I think

00:14:17

that that is that is challenging and I

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do think um I mean while obviously

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grandmother went through

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um a Great Depression one time she said

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to me actually she said Nikki it's

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wonderful you have lots of choices but I

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actually think that's what makes it also

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harder for you right you've got lots of

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choices

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it was quite an interesting thing to say

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in one level she would have loved to

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have had the choices that I I'd had but

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at another level

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she understood the complexity kind of

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almost life was more complex now yeah

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I'd agree with that I never really

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thought of it that way I completely my

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mum's family that she's one of like 14

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kids from Levin and they they or her and

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all their siblings pretty much married

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someone else from Levin from the same

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church group yeah now it's like the you

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know the world's like a global Community

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isn't it there's so many options and

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choices okay so so your parents broke up

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you have a rebellious face you get your

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rebellious phase out of the way really

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though then you find running you come

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good then you study in otago did you

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have another rebellious face in otago

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um burning sofas smoking more weed

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typical and I actually I did weird with

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like 14 and then I never

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did oh come on

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come on yes no I swear I I was very

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um I had seen the sex boyfriend and I

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was like younger had gone pretty yeah

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it was not good for him

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um and so I have never been on drugs

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since right um and so basically but I

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was in otago all the party stuff yep

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um I was actually I was at a university

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hostel we had a and a pretty incredible

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time and a good group of friends then

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went uh up to Wellington to finish

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um I was gonna finish the law and

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genetics degree and got offered a

00:16:00

full-time job for Bill English so how

00:16:03

old were you then like early 20s yeah

00:16:04

what was he there was it when he was the

00:16:06

leader it was when he was a leader and

00:16:08

we went to the selection result

00:16:11

um who won was that Helen uh

00:16:13

yeah it was like we went to like 22

00:16:14

percent

00:16:15

okay 20 in the polls but um I worked

00:16:18

with him uh and then my ex-boyfriend and

00:16:21

I we wanted to go over to London wanted

00:16:24

to do the OE and so I finished the

00:16:27

genetics degree but didn't finish the

00:16:28

law degree at that point hit it over

00:16:30

worked in the public service over there

00:16:32

and different contract roles and then

00:16:34

also Halifax Bank of Scotland

00:16:37

um traveled

00:16:39

next minute

00:16:41

27 in a pub with a mate not doing

00:16:45

cocaine not doing anything you and John

00:16:47

Key must be the only kiwis that went to

00:16:48

London

00:16:51

that's good taking back a pint

00:16:55

um and one of my mates said to me

00:16:58

you know this is ridiculous all you have

00:17:00

to talk about is policy New Zealand

00:17:01

politics like why we were just a nerd

00:17:04

like a massive political news yeah

00:17:06

really why because you did what did you

00:17:08

do you did like a science science degree

00:17:10

science degree in genetics yeah and I

00:17:13

was doing a law degree and did you have

00:17:16

political like aspirations then or not

00:17:18

that you sort of I think when

00:17:26

I'd give it a crack a question in my

00:17:28

mind was

00:17:29

I kind of imagined I did in my 40s like

00:17:32

about now

00:17:34

um but one of my mates turned to me and

00:17:36

said why wouldn't you go back and stand

00:17:38

now I mean I was 27 I was getting more

00:17:40

than like I was earning phenomenal money

00:17:43

in ITC asset management consulting

00:17:46

um and I had to really ask myself the

00:17:49

answer to that and I really the only

00:17:51

answer that I could come up with would

00:17:53

be fair

00:17:54

it was difficult because I left my

00:17:56

ex-boyfriend I got on a plane came back

00:17:59

here

00:18:00

it's like

00:18:01

December

00:18:03

um before

00:18:04

um 2000 2008 election and I asked to see

00:18:08

Murray McCully on one side of the road

00:18:10

Bill English on the other side and I

00:18:12

said look because they knew it you know

00:18:14

I'd been a staffer and I'd been away

00:18:15

over overseas for a period of time I

00:18:17

said look if you don't think I'm up to

00:18:19

being a member of parliament look I'll

00:18:21

get back on the plane and you know go

00:18:22

back both of them said we think you

00:18:24

should give it a crack it's going to be

00:18:26

really tough because you've

00:18:28

not being back you are so young you have

00:18:34

not been around on the electorate um in

00:18:36

terms of Auckland Central

00:18:38

and yeah and then I sort of bit Jackie

00:18:41

Blue and others also you went uh you

00:18:43

didn't slide in on the list no no no I

00:18:46

had to fight um oh [ __ ] so basically

00:18:52

membership then it wouldn't have gone to

00:18:54

it would have gone to the board and I

00:18:55

would never have made it so I walked the

00:18:57

streets to up the membership to get a

00:19:00

contested selection and yeah I think I I

00:19:02

mean it was a pretty big night but won

00:19:04

the selection and then knocked on ten

00:19:07

thousand doors to win yeah yeah I read

00:19:10

that online how do you know it was ten

00:19:12

thousand that's just good it's got to be

00:19:14

again no no no I I mean I was I was

00:19:17

counting right

00:19:18

um I was and I was we were mapping up

00:19:21

the streets and everything like we were

00:19:22

pretty um disciplined about it yeah very

00:19:25

very much

00:19:26

um very disciplined I mean you know it

00:19:28

was it so it was an estimate but it's

00:19:32

more likely to have been 11 000 if that

00:19:34

makes sense because we were mapping

00:19:35

everything out

00:19:37

um does it does that help I guess it

00:19:39

does say like if someone meets you

00:19:40

absolutely in New Zealand I mean that

00:19:43

the the difference in a marginal seat if

00:19:46

you meet because if you're knocking on

00:19:48

ten thousand dollars you're not gonna

00:19:49

meet ten thousand people the reality is

00:19:50

probably one and every three will be

00:19:52

home right but if you meet I'm gonna it

00:19:56

comes down to a thousand votes if you've

00:19:59

made a couple of hundred extra people

00:20:00

and they've got three friends like it's

00:20:03

it absolutely makes a difference yeah

00:20:06

except from where I'm sitting now over

00:20:07

the road at Victoria Park there's a

00:20:09

whole lot of um like signs for people

00:20:11

that want to be the mayor of Auckland

00:20:12

yeah and I I don't know they they all

00:20:15

look nice in the photos but if you meet

00:20:16

one of them and they seem like a like a

00:20:18

good a good person you'd probably vote I

00:20:20

guess regardless of policy necessarily I

00:20:22

think well I think um

00:20:24

when you're an unknown and certainly

00:20:27

that can make a difference in terms of

00:20:30

particularly if people want change and

00:20:31

it was kind of a change election yeah

00:20:32

but also I mean when was that was that

00:20:34

after uh Helen Clark had three terms

00:20:36

that was in 2008 so yeah because I came

00:20:40

in in 99 right did you see some um

00:20:43

interesting sites with the door knocking

00:20:45

Journey yeah

00:20:48

yeah you get the dressing gowns I mean I

00:20:50

didn't get anyone naked in there oh is

00:20:51

that right 11

00:20:53

000 people not in that election I've had

00:21:00

interesting experiences but but the

00:21:03

thing about it is I consider as well

00:21:05

that was a massive training exercise

00:21:07

because

00:21:08

with people who want to stand and my

00:21:10

main message to them is I don't think it

00:21:12

matters what what Walk of Life you come

00:21:15

from right people say to me oh should I

00:21:17

do this degree should I do that I'm like

00:21:19

look in our cabinets

00:21:22

um and when one of keys cabinets he had

00:21:24

solo mum woodwork teacher I was

00:21:26

considered a career politician 50

00:21:28

million investment banker but the best

00:21:30

cabinets in my view have people from

00:21:33

lots of different walks of life but the

00:21:35

key thing in my view the people that

00:21:37

kind of rise to that cabinet level

00:21:40

they have a strong sense of who they are

00:21:43

and what they want to deliver and some

00:21:45

people get that really young and what I

00:21:47

do believe that my door knocking if I

00:21:50

didn't know what my position was on

00:21:52

abortion or drag reform or other health

00:21:55

and education I certainly over those

00:21:58

months

00:21:59

had to work it out bloody quickly yeah

00:22:01

it's pretty good I didn't think of it

00:22:02

like that it was probably a good

00:22:03

training exercise thinking on the spot

00:22:04

well but also people give you their view

00:22:07

if you're a good politician people give

00:22:09

you their views and I say to people I

00:22:12

would say to people you know what what

00:22:14

do you mean can you elaborate on that

00:22:15

what do you mean if you're a good

00:22:16

politician people well if you're a good

00:22:17

politician you listen to people right

00:22:19

and you're a magpie because the best

00:22:22

ideas for public policy they don't come

00:22:25

from people sitting in the Beehive they

00:22:28

come from the piss on the doorstep that

00:22:30

says hey look I am a an es specialist

00:22:34

and I happen to think that cochlear

00:22:36

airplane I mean it's just an example

00:22:37

Cochlear implants need to be better

00:22:40

funded or you know that's where the best

00:22:43

ideas come from it comes from from

00:22:46

people who are working in particular

00:22:47

sectors

00:22:49

yeah you get the feeling

00:22:51

um I don't know from someone that's

00:22:52

never been in Parliament but just

00:22:54

follows it not closely I guess it just

00:22:55

doesn't seem like there's a lot of

00:22:56

sociopaths or narcissists in there that

00:22:59

wouldn't necessarily be good at

00:23:00

listening yeah yeah I think

00:23:02

I do have faith a bit in the system

00:23:05

though that those people get shown up

00:23:08

right right

00:23:10

um in part like I often tell the taxi

00:23:12

driver test often I've gotten a taxi and

00:23:15

people said to me oh can I just tell you

00:23:17

about the CMP that I just dropped off or

00:23:19

whatever then you you realize they're

00:23:21

probably saying the same thing about you

00:23:24

yeah so it is like there's just small

00:23:28

Degrees of Separation so generally I

00:23:31

think people get found out in a small

00:23:32

country but I I do think there's a need

00:23:35

to ensure that we continue to do more to

00:23:38

more and more to encourage people from

00:23:40

different walks of life to stand and the

00:23:42

Nets have had issues with diversity and

00:23:44

you know it's been pretty widely

00:23:45

canvassed but I think it's not just

00:23:48

about diversity it's it's different

00:23:50

walks of life that's have annoyed me a

00:23:52

little bit on on your behalf actually

00:23:53

this was towards the end of your time in

00:23:55

politics so there was um Simon Bridges

00:23:57

and Paula Bennett leader and Deputy

00:23:58

leader both both Maori they didn't do

00:24:00

well so they were replaced and it was um

00:24:04

you were asked about Maori and you said

00:24:06

Paul Goldsmith Somali which was just

00:24:08

like a slip of the tongue or an accident

00:24:09

would it faux power whatever you want to

00:24:11

call it yeah but she actually get reamed

00:24:13

for that stuff don't you yeah it was an

00:24:15

interesting time I mean again I've been

00:24:17

really careful about what I've said

00:24:19

publicly because I haven't felt it's

00:24:21

ever

00:24:22

useful to

00:24:25

um it would be I'd feel good for about

00:24:26

24 hours but it's selfish

00:24:30

if I ever kind of went into that detail

00:24:33

but yeah that's a podcast no one no one

00:24:36

listens

00:24:37

the media cam blows stuff up

00:24:41

but my experience still of the public is

00:24:44

they're pretty fair and I've actually

00:24:46

had a really good experience so that was

00:24:50

um you know I was obviously advised by

00:24:52

someone in hindsight where I sh

00:24:55

there's there's more to that but but

00:24:57

whatever but but in hindsight we had

00:25:00

issues with diversity media we're going

00:25:02

to highlight that and it just so

00:25:04

happened I gave them a moment to do that

00:25:06

but the broader issue was actually in my

00:25:09

view the Nets have to do do better in

00:25:11

terms of breaking down barriers for

00:25:13

selection and Crystal flux has actually

00:25:14

said that recently

00:25:16

um so you kind of have to sometimes

00:25:18

you've also got to take one for the team

00:25:19

and there's various moments in politics

00:25:22

where I have done that and um no one

00:25:26

ever really knows what goes on behind

00:25:27

the scenes you just gotta suck it up in

00:25:29

a number of times as well you've gotta

00:25:31

if you're in the leadership position

00:25:32

you've got to own it like a lot of

00:25:35

people run and ultimately I got that

00:25:38

wrong just gotta you gotta kind of own

00:25:40

it um kind of must be it must be a rough

00:25:43

couple of days though

00:25:54

yes that was like um like anxiety

00:25:57

attacks

00:25:58

he's used those

00:26:00

yeah

00:26:01

were you aware of it at the time the

00:26:03

extent of it or did he manage to sort of

00:26:05

have a pretty good mask on yeah I mean I

00:26:07

think it's just um and I think you know

00:26:10

obviously spoken publicly about it uh

00:26:14

was made aware

00:26:16

um effectively when he was resigning I

00:26:18

mean I knew it was under stress but I

00:26:20

don't know the extent yeah yeah but also

00:26:23

because it was such an unusual time we

00:26:25

were both on the road

00:26:27

um so we didn't actually see each other

00:26:29

that much because it was so close to an

00:26:31

election

00:26:32

um what I would say is I think

00:26:35

um

00:26:36

you know there's been a range of reviews

00:26:37

around the Parliamentary Precinct but

00:26:39

that need to

00:26:41

um ensure that there's just a better

00:26:43

environment in there I you know I think

00:26:46

you can work long hours but I should say

00:26:49

to people for 12 years I was working 100

00:26:51

hour weeks we really so what an average

00:26:54

day look like so this is this in the

00:26:56

early years when you're a backbencher or

00:26:57

is this when you're in a cabinet pretty

00:26:58

much right through because it's an

00:27:00

imaginal set I mean my inbox the nature

00:27:02

of all consensual as well it was it it

00:27:04

was pretty

00:27:05

um just Relentless there was always

00:27:08

people in Central City and then you've

00:27:10

got Waikiki barrier the Western Bays

00:27:13

um and then obviously as a cabinet

00:27:15

minister and then you know moving

00:27:17

through the ranks and I was always

00:27:19

focused on policy so it was an absolute

00:27:23

privilege but it was pretty full-on I

00:27:26

mean bowing out has been it's sort of

00:27:29

like a completely different life because

00:27:32

initially I was like oh hang on I should

00:27:34

be dealing with

00:27:36

stuff yeah yeah some sort of steady

00:27:40

stream of people always wanting

00:27:42

information and or you do something

00:27:44

so so what how did how did a 100 hour

00:27:47

week look like like run us through like

00:27:49

a like a day in the life

00:27:51

sevenish respond to emails I mean I

00:27:55

might get a walk-in if it was caucus

00:27:57

you'd be there for procedures which is

00:28:00

like the pre-prep prior to kind of

00:28:03

questions

00:28:04

um then we will go through like a

00:28:06

question

00:28:07

um session we bid for a question if you

00:28:10

had a question you'll be preparing that

00:28:11

until the questions were lodged if you

00:28:13

didn't you might have various meetings

00:28:15

with stakeholders

00:28:17

um you'd have question time at like uh

00:28:20

two o'clock but you'd be prepping if

00:28:22

you're in opposition um or as a minister

00:28:24

it's obviously very different if you're

00:28:26

a minister you've got meetings all day

00:28:27

with officials

00:28:29

um you would be maybe then at a function

00:28:32

or you would be talking to various

00:28:35

stakeholders that wanted to Lobby you on

00:28:36

a particular issue then you'd be doing

00:28:38

policy work often in the background

00:28:41

either in opposition or as a minister I

00:28:44

mean there'll be times when I wouldn't

00:28:45

have left the Beehive until yeah

00:28:47

midnight really yeah absolutely because

00:28:49

because the amount of paper work so like

00:28:52

when I was a minister of Education the

00:28:56

kid have an inbox of papers to be

00:28:58

reading policy papers cabinet papers oh

00:29:01

my God why would anyone want to do it

00:29:03

well because it is incredibly rewarding

00:29:07

yeah last year I think I was walking

00:29:09

along the street and this guy's like

00:29:11

Nikki I was associate minister of

00:29:13

immigration for a period And I had

00:29:15

helped let him come into New Zealand and

00:29:18

so you know he was pretty emotional you

00:29:21

get to change the trajectory of a

00:29:24

person's life or you get to I mean like

00:29:26

I I bought I bought an um connecting all

00:29:29

schools to old fast broadband and also

00:29:32

like um did a lot in school

00:29:33

infrastructure you know you'll change a

00:29:35

community with some of the things that

00:29:37

you do so it can be

00:29:40

a lot of Highs but then there's also

00:29:43

lows because there were a number of

00:29:45

situations where you couldn't like I

00:29:47

couldn't help people the answers no yeah

00:29:49

yeah and so for their life they

00:29:52

may have a pretty negative view of you

00:29:53

but yeah so it can be a lot of highs and

00:29:56

lows basically when you entered as a

00:29:58

fresh face 27 year old I'm guessing you

00:30:00

had aspirations to be pm yeah I feel

00:30:03

like most people that get into politics

00:30:05

probably in spite of that and then I

00:30:06

think it was actually a strong key who

00:30:08

said most people do I don't think I ever

00:30:11

I thought I wanted to be top five

00:30:14

um in part like I managed I I imagine

00:30:17

being minister of Social Development or

00:30:19

minister of Education in part like my

00:30:21

step rather have been challenging and I

00:30:23

just wanted to

00:30:25

um I was very focused on social good and

00:30:27

social policy but yeah I did I didn't

00:30:30

think it was impossible people but more

00:30:33

I sort of focused on that top five and I

00:30:36

certainly wasn't I wasn't going in there

00:30:38

to be a backbencher like

00:30:40

um I was you know wanting to

00:30:43

be able to make the greatest amount of

00:30:44

change that I could yeah in your early

00:30:46

years some people called you high

00:30:47

maintenance or obsessive yeah

00:30:50

just driven well on the high maintenance

00:30:54

thing I would say I have I don't think

00:30:57

I've missed a woman in politics at

00:30:59

senior levels who hasn't been called

00:31:01

high maintenance right and I do think

00:31:03

that's sexist some of it is misogynism

00:31:07

um but there are times absolutely I've

00:31:10

been high maintenance and that's in part

00:31:13

like I do get and you always sort of

00:31:15

learn in life what your weaknesses are

00:31:17

can also be a strength so it's like my

00:31:20

superpower

00:31:21

can be when I get focused on something

00:31:25

deliver it

00:31:27

and um and inevitably that can mean

00:31:31

that's particularly frustrating for some

00:31:34

people so look I'm not perfect I

00:31:36

certainly think I I don't reckon I

00:31:38

manage stress that well at times like I

00:31:40

so I definitely think I've got better

00:31:43

the last couple of years or

00:31:46

um even while you were still a

00:31:47

politician well I was still a politician

00:31:49

yeah yeah I think you know when and yang

00:31:51

I didn't have the experience of managing

00:31:54

large organizations I became

00:31:58

very young in cabinet as well and so I

00:32:01

certainly think I got better

00:32:03

but this still is a lot of misogynism so

00:32:06

you know I don't as I say I often joke

00:32:09

about it with um with senior women in

00:32:11

business Etc we're you know the most

00:32:14

sort of classic way to shut

00:32:16

a powerful woman down is to say the

00:32:18

astrophy a ball breaker

00:32:22

basically yeah that's true that's a

00:32:24

cop-out isn't it yeah yeah oh that's

00:32:26

interesting and it is I mean look the

00:32:28

naturopathics and this is where

00:32:30

one of the good things about it is yeah

00:32:33

it's a goldfish bowl and it needs to be

00:32:36

that way and that means that your

00:32:39

strengths and your weaknesses are blown

00:32:41

up and Amplified and

00:32:43

um focused obsessive whatever yeah

00:32:46

sometimes that can be but the advantage

00:32:48

of that I think probably post is you've

00:32:51

kind of been through the SAS of um kind

00:32:55

of personal

00:32:56

Limbs and and if you can learn from that

00:33:01

um and certainly that you know no one

00:33:02

gives you an extra interview well the

00:33:04

media give you an excellent interview

00:33:05

but no one sits down like other jobs and

00:33:08

gives you a decent exit interview and

00:33:10

I've had to do that myself with friends

00:33:11

and other people who've been in there

00:33:13

and I've said be brutal with me what was

00:33:15

good what was bad I'm really proud I've

00:33:17

kind of done that process

00:33:18

so that you can kind of learn the next

00:33:21

phase and and your experience was was

00:33:23

there like a bullying culture there at

00:33:25

all or is it just one of those I mean

00:33:27

the Debbie Francis review as an

00:33:29

independent review that has come out in

00:33:31

the last few years and I do think I do

00:33:34

think

00:33:35

I mean it highlights a range of bad

00:33:37

behaviors and I think

00:33:40

it's got to change when whenever you get

00:33:43

large amounts of power as you do

00:33:45

obviously in the House of

00:33:46

Representatives and you get egos

00:33:51

um and you get competition right it's a

00:33:54

dangerous combination and power can do

00:33:56

some crazy stuff to some people I asked

00:33:59

one of my classmates from school I said

00:34:00

you and I got really up myself for parts

00:34:02

of it and she said she recognized

00:34:05

where he's pretty grounded for most of

00:34:07

it but you know it might have been one

00:34:08

or two in part because I was always door

00:34:11

knocking so in a marginal seat probably

00:34:14

kept more in check but maybe others will

00:34:17

have a different view yeah I certainly

00:34:19

think

00:34:20

um we want to make sure though that we

00:34:22

have people from different walks of life

00:34:24

yeah because I think

00:34:26

some of also that life experience so and

00:34:29

then there was the um uh 2011 election

00:34:32

where you went head-to-head with uh

00:34:34

Jacinda ardoon and you you've been here

00:34:35

about like 700 votes or something yeah

00:34:37

yeah do you do you look at her career

00:34:39

and think [ __ ] that's uh that that

00:34:41

should have been me or that could have

00:34:43

been me no I don't know I actually um

00:34:46

there's obviously parallels between

00:34:48

us I mean we we sort of fought each

00:34:50

other a couple of times

00:34:52

um and the

00:34:55

thing is in part because we're you know

00:34:59

um young and female yeah age all that

00:35:01

stuff I mean I genuinely while I might

00:35:04

not agree with the policy recipes of

00:35:06

flavor I think she won a phenomenal

00:35:10

result she's

00:35:12

um on the world stage done incredibly

00:35:15

well and yeah I kind of wish you well

00:35:17

it's sort of a bit of the running

00:35:19

analogy I sort of run my own race and

00:35:21

try in life and actually I've read all

00:35:24

the every possible self-help bookkeeping

00:35:26

but possibly reads how much Bruno Brown

00:35:29

have you got in your library

00:35:31

oh God but I do think I'm pretty good at

00:35:35

yeah acknowledging where someone's done

00:35:39

well and they've you know they've run

00:35:40

their race well comparison's the theft

00:35:42

of Joy I like that saying I think that's

00:35:44

very true you just can't who who are you

00:35:46

still are you are you friends with him

00:35:48

like how does how does it work and like

00:35:51

are you are you sworn enemies with

00:35:53

anyone from other parties or is it

00:35:57

right

00:35:58

never tribal in the sense of well that's

00:36:01

maybe a new school mentality eh yeah

00:36:12

um was politics I've been involved in

00:36:13

the National Party since I was like a

00:36:15

young Nash which was like

00:36:18

um 19.

00:36:20

um so half my life and so in order for

00:36:23

me to be confident

00:36:25

what kind of you work out what you knew

00:36:27

well what your identity is I needed to

00:36:30

just cut a bit and I think that's really

00:36:33

healthy

00:36:34

um yeah after that long being involved

00:36:37

um it must have felt like a weird

00:36:38

breakup in a way in a sense

00:36:40

I was probably on the Spectrum in terms

00:36:43

of I just got involved so young

00:36:46

so

00:36:48

um

00:36:49

I needed to really disconnect and

00:36:53

actually for

00:36:55

because I'm younger bowinger as well the

00:36:57

chances of having you know focus on

00:37:00

education technology and other crack at

00:37:02

another

00:37:03

another life another career yeah

00:37:06

yeah the the cancer diagnosis in 20 did

00:37:09

they give you some sort of um like

00:37:10

perspective like [ __ ] what am I doing

00:37:12

with my life absolutely yeah look I've

00:37:14

been really public about the fact my

00:37:15

health is not perfect it's still still

00:37:18

now perfect yeah but I was really so I

00:37:20

don't I never talk about kind of the

00:37:22

detail but it would it's never been

00:37:24

perfect even from 2016 so

00:37:28

so let's go back there so September

00:37:30

2016. do you think some of it was

00:37:33

brought on by I mean there's no way of

00:37:34

knowing I guess but in your heart do you

00:37:36

think some of us brought on by doing 100

00:37:37

hour weeks

00:37:39

streets

00:37:43

they can work out they can diagnose and

00:37:46

do a biopsy and work out what they think

00:37:47

is the best combination to treat you but

00:37:50

they often don't know what the hell

00:37:52

because it was a streus was it yeah you

00:37:56

know but I do think ah if I was gonna

00:37:59

have a guess but who knows um it was

00:38:03

more likely to do with that combination

00:38:06

of stress and

00:38:08

um but who knows I mean it wouldn't be

00:38:10

yeah it wouldn't have been helpful to

00:38:12

have that amount of stress

00:38:13

um and we know the connection between

00:38:15

streus and stuff now so so did you know

00:38:18

something did you feel unwell or were

00:38:20

you good at did you do regular

00:38:21

self-examinations basically

00:38:25

really a miracle that I found I I just

00:38:27

never have checked myself ever you go

00:38:30

for a yearly mammogram

00:38:32

right so mammograms

00:38:35

um I was too young

00:38:37

so I randomly I just sort of I had felt

00:38:41

feeling a bit unwell but I sort of went

00:38:44

like that like almost kind of just like

00:38:46

moved the bar or whatever and went what

00:38:49

the hell is that like what sort of size

00:38:51

are we talking just like

00:38:52

it right you know it's weird

00:38:59

terrible sense in my

00:39:02

um

00:39:03

I said I remember crying and then the

00:39:06

next morning I rang my uncle who's it um

00:39:09

who was like um

00:39:11

GP and I see it oh Thunder lump and he

00:39:15

said you need to get into a GP today and

00:39:19

I went into the GP and she said

00:39:22

oh look and you just you need the tone

00:39:26

of your voice she was like you if you

00:39:28

cried when you found it you must have

00:39:30

like no one deep down I think it

00:39:34

is

00:39:35

or anything about breast cancer really

00:39:37

and then she said look is actually

00:39:40

several lumps but then

00:39:43

she said we need to get an ultrasound

00:39:46

and at that point I was thinking oh [ __ ]

00:39:48

this isn't very good but they rang I

00:39:51

can't remember they rang a provider this

00:39:53

is on a Saturday

00:39:55

and they said oh you're pretty young too

00:39:57

you know you you're too young we'll wait

00:40:00

till sort of early next week it's funny

00:40:01

how they do that right then also I had a

00:40:04

big paper cabinet like a big civil

00:40:06

defense emergency paper so I was like oh

00:40:08

I'll just come back on the Tuesday and

00:40:11

get the stuff looked at

00:40:13

how can you focus on doing it I know

00:40:15

look it was did you look back now and go

00:40:17

what an earlier crazy time it was

00:40:19

actually a yeah it was quite a very

00:40:21

important civil defense paper and but

00:40:23

was that and was that a like a nice

00:40:25

distraction maybe a song to focus your

00:40:27

mind it was kind of like I was I I

00:40:31

needed I I felt I needed to be there but

00:40:33

probably it would have been a day and

00:40:34

it's right and cut so anyway

00:40:36

but I was not in a good head space and I

00:40:39

did what I need to do I came back and um

00:40:42

I rang John's Deputy Chief of Staff wore

00:40:46

over and I said to her hey look just to

00:40:48

let you know I'm just having some tests

00:40:49

probably be nothing you know

00:40:52

but then

00:40:53

um I took the ultrasound and

00:40:57

they sent me into another room

00:40:59

and suddenly they were doing more stuff

00:41:03

and um

00:41:05

they just took a biopsy

00:41:07

and then basically

00:41:10

I

00:41:12

went to see uh

00:41:14

breast person and yeah that's you've got

00:41:18

breast cancer and that's where I try to

00:41:19

resign

00:41:21

um so how do they how do they tell you

00:41:22

that like to give a support person in

00:41:24

the room with you yeah

00:41:28

at that time when when you get when you

00:41:31

hear that news do you um do you break

00:41:33

down and cry then or are you just numb

00:41:34

or sort of like for me it was like I was

00:41:37

hovering over my own body going this

00:41:39

isn't this isn't [ __ ] happening like

00:41:41

this is not [ __ ] happening and this

00:41:43

is not me and this is not

00:41:45

you know and then uh so sort of but then

00:41:49

I was

00:41:50

um incredibly upset and so I tried to I

00:41:54

rang Paula and um she said we'll have to

00:41:57

get the PM by himself because it'll

00:41:59

knock him over a bit so we'll we'll get

00:42:02

him when he's out of some of the stuff

00:42:04

anyway you rang a bit earlier and I said

00:42:06

look I offered my resignation

00:42:09

um from cabinet we have my resignation

00:42:11

from cabinet and he just said you're not

00:42:14

[ __ ] going anywhere oh that's that

00:42:16

must have made you feel so good why did

00:42:18

you want to resign did you just think I

00:42:19

need to focus on

00:42:20

that sort of thing to do right because

00:42:21

you didn't know how long it would take

00:42:23

or well I just couldn't imagine how

00:42:25

because I didn't I just couldn't imagine

00:42:28

that he would end up he took the

00:42:30

portfolios but kept me as a minister and

00:42:32

I just you just think it's the right

00:42:34

thing to do people need running the

00:42:35

country it's such an important job but I

00:42:39

I think it it people don't realize now

00:42:42

that sort of seemed more common practice

00:42:44

but at the time I think he was yeah it

00:42:47

was really it was sort of groundbreaking

00:42:49

at the time do you think

00:42:51

um but obviously that practices I think

00:42:55

continued with other ministers now but

00:42:58

yeah I mean it's sort of it's like my

00:43:00

world just kind of broke smashed and

00:43:03

that certainly in terms of and as I say

00:43:06

because the health hasn't been perfect I

00:43:08

haven't gone to that but

00:43:10

it has been the most horrific thing in

00:43:13

my life but it has been

00:43:15

the most beautiful how's it the most

00:43:18

beautiful well because I'm closer to a

00:43:20

range of people that I wouldn't have

00:43:22

been close to because basically what

00:43:24

happens when you get I think

00:43:26

life-threatening

00:43:28

illnesses often but I think you might

00:43:30

die the word cancer right but they well

00:43:34

they tell you that they love you and

00:43:36

they um and you often feel I've talked

00:43:38

about this with a lot of women have been

00:43:40

been diagnosed with people who've had

00:43:41

cancer or have cancer

00:43:44

you know why does it take the sort of

00:43:46

worst period to feel the most love and

00:43:51

my stepfather actually a bit of a

00:43:53

medical event lately and we're in a more

00:43:55

in Auckland hospital again I was sort of

00:43:58

sitting there watching and you see is

00:44:01

that you see so much trauma and then you

00:44:03

also see incredible love like it's it's

00:44:06

so crazy that that's what takes in life

00:44:08

sometimes

00:44:09

yeah that's cool I suppose it's like a

00:44:11

almost a eulogy in a way but you get to

00:44:13

you get to experience it and you make it

00:44:16

through the other end yeah um so what's

00:44:18

um so so what happens so you get

00:44:19

diagnosed and you get told you got

00:44:21

cancer then what's the what's the

00:44:23

treatment like

00:44:24

um

00:44:27

including

00:44:30

oh that's um yeah the same thing

00:44:32

Angelina Jolie had yeah

00:44:34

I didn't have the bracket um the what

00:44:36

the breaker mutation which is a mutation

00:44:38

but I had yeah both off which is that is

00:44:41

that a big call or not not at all um

00:44:44

there's the right thing to do yeah but

00:44:46

in terms of

00:44:47

a variety of reasons I was in surgery

00:44:50

for a long time that coming out coming

00:44:52

out of that like it's quite physically

00:44:54

and emotionally

00:44:56

yeah it's I remember feeling like I had

00:44:59

been I woke up in the recovery room and

00:45:02

I felt like I had been run over

00:45:05

like that's how tired like if if you've

00:45:08

had major surgery

00:45:10

well from from like how do you mean I've

00:45:12

like coming out from from the drugs or

00:45:14

just from the the surgical

00:45:17

yeah just this feeling when your body

00:45:20

when you go through such physical trauma

00:45:23

like that that your body is just

00:45:25

completely spent

00:45:27

yeah there's no I can't imagine I hope I

00:45:29

never feel

00:45:31

that way but I've never felt like my

00:45:34

body was such a weight

00:45:36

but also just before you kind of go in

00:45:39

thinking like am I gonna wake up like

00:45:42

that's the did you really think that

00:45:45

well

00:45:47

even though that may have been

00:45:48

irrational I still went through that

00:45:50

process and I think there's a lot of

00:45:52

people

00:45:53

it's pretty natural thing like if you're

00:45:56

going under for any major to kind of

00:45:59

just go

00:46:01

Um you're only you're only younger you

00:46:03

think that's I mean if it's your 90 year

00:46:04

old Granddad maybe but you were in your

00:46:07

30s

00:46:13

also my spin a bit more

00:46:15

intense

00:46:16

[Music]

00:46:17

and so I feel very I choose to be very

00:46:20

grateful other sometimes people can get

00:46:23

pretty

00:46:24

angry which is Perfectly Natural for

00:46:27

periods like why me why did this have to

00:46:29

happen and

00:46:31

yeah I kind of more think well why not

00:46:35

me

00:46:36

so it's sort of I don't know it's it's

00:46:39

but and then you know I guess that thing

00:46:40

about resilience like there's the

00:46:42

reality is I it's the wrong thing to say

00:46:45

that sometimes I think I I do feel a bit

00:46:47

Bulletproof

00:46:49

but when you go through a lot of trauma

00:46:52

like that there is an amount for which

00:46:55

every day is a good day if you can

00:46:57

remember yeah yeah those

00:47:02

um

00:47:03

yeah I had a um I had a Timber a number

00:47:07

of years ago what wasn't a cancerous one

00:47:08

just in my um abdomen area and it left

00:47:10

me with um uh fertility issues uh unable

00:47:14

to have kids and me and judge had years

00:47:15

and years of of IVF and I suppose

00:47:17

there's like a like a sense of grieving

00:47:19

or a sense of loss with that did you did

00:47:21

you feel that when you lost your breasts

00:47:24

um

00:47:25

yeah yeah I mean I um

00:47:30

yeah it

00:47:32

I assume well

00:47:36

um

00:47:37

I also had my ovaries out

00:47:39

um so

00:47:40

um

00:47:42

I said well there's a lot of

00:47:44

sort of feelings right up with all of

00:47:46

that yeah was it was that a

00:47:47

precautionary thing or uh

00:47:50

uh again like you don't want to get

00:47:52

there yeah go it won't go into all that

00:47:55

but but basically

00:47:57

there was

00:47:59

a lot of aspects to the Lost are you are

00:48:02

you at peace with it now I don't think

00:48:03

I'm quite at peace with it still yeah I

00:48:06

don't think I've properly processed it

00:48:07

at the time and now I'm I'm slightly

00:48:10

older than you so I'm 49 and I don't

00:48:12

know and you you're probably the same in

00:48:13

some respects like you just see the

00:48:15

second half of your life playing out a

00:48:16

certain way well for me it was kids and

00:48:19

maybe eventually grandkids and then you

00:48:21

sort of have to reframe your whole your

00:48:23

whole life and how it's going to look

00:48:24

for that second chapter yeah and I think

00:48:27

I always wondered whether I would end up

00:48:30

having children in the sense of because

00:48:33

I wanted to save the world I know so it

00:48:35

sounds so kind of imagine how would I be

00:48:38

a good mum like trying to but then when

00:48:40

when stuff is sort of

00:48:43

taken away from you

00:48:45

it's

00:48:46

um a different

00:48:48

uh yeah I mean I of course

00:48:51

this is sadness

00:48:53

um that I think is Pretty Natural but

00:48:56

I don't know I am

00:49:00

I'm choosing to be grateful to be alive

00:49:02

at this point and I just I just don't

00:49:06

think anyone gets off scot-free like I

00:49:08

think oh 100 I just I haven't

00:49:16

I've seen so many things

00:49:19

be able to

00:49:20

experiences and

00:49:23

um I did my dream my dream job

00:49:26

[Music]

00:49:28

um so yeah and so I just I kind of feel

00:49:31

everyone's got some

00:49:34

strange the likes I've got um you know

00:49:36

numerous friends that are like choose to

00:49:38

be childless and that's fine but it's

00:49:40

it's when that decision's taken away

00:49:41

from you that's when it's it's a little

00:49:43

bit a little bit weird but I don't know

00:49:45

there's still a lot to be happy but I go

00:49:47

around here last week doing a podcast

00:49:48

and she hit um a two-year-old for days

00:49:51

afterwards so you know it was just like

00:49:53

the smear Max on my TV my decorative jar

00:49:56

of him and names the Eminem's all over

00:49:58

the floors some some chocolate from his

00:50:00

muesli bar the smeared on my sofa and I

00:50:02

thought it's not bad being childless

00:50:04

[Laughter]

00:50:05

no I mean again it's um yeah I can hear

00:50:10

my grandmother in my ear but um you

00:50:12

can't you kind of make the best of

00:50:15

yeah be grateful for what you've got and

00:50:17

I mean I I do think as well I mean

00:50:19

because I my stepfather really he

00:50:21

brought me up that there's

00:50:24

lots of other opportunities to bring up

00:50:27

children yeah like like nieces and

00:50:29

nephews or like a big buddy sort of

00:50:31

program what do you mean I mean you

00:50:33

could be a step parent okay gotcha yeah

00:50:35

yeah

00:50:36

um yeah are you seeing anyone

00:50:40

you don't go there

00:50:49

no one permanent

00:50:51

um okay oh yeah no that's all right

00:50:53

Michelle all right where did you make

00:50:55

bumble Tinder

00:51:01

well there's so so many more questions

00:51:03

though you're giving me the note for the

00:51:04

question saying

00:51:05

um oh that's good so there's nothing too

00:51:07

serious but you're mostly happy

00:51:10

yeah thing um it's been you know the

00:51:14

change the life change

00:51:16

as I ripped up all of the former life

00:51:19

like

00:51:21

saw my house

00:51:23

job it's been disruptive and I feel as I

00:51:28

say that you know the house is not

00:51:29

perfect that's always in the mix but I

00:51:32

feel happier than in a long time and I

00:51:35

think and much more relaxed

00:51:38

I think I still worry I mean I

00:51:41

and maybe it's a former job I'll never

00:51:43

stop worrying about the community and

00:51:45

like I I just think that's like

00:51:48

ingrained in me and so still just trying

00:51:51

to make sure where I can like obviously

00:51:53

on the 80 Ventures board I can kind of

00:51:56

give back because I love that so I'm

00:51:59

just before I was like I just need a

00:52:02

break and I need to be out and now I'm

00:52:05

more sort of the way I look at it

00:52:07

reintegrating back into the community

00:52:09

yeah so yeah but certainly I mean I

00:52:12

think um I think as well I

00:52:16

weird thing to say but

00:52:18

I think the nature of the former job I

00:52:21

feel acutely when people are in pain and

00:52:23

I think there's a lot of people in pain

00:52:25

at the moment whether it's like yeah

00:52:26

there are health issues or

00:52:29

or pay the bills and so

00:52:31

that this is sort of part of me that

00:52:33

just sort of bubbles away which is Oh no

00:52:36

you're not in Parliament and you've got

00:52:38

a different life but then how do you let

00:52:40

it go yeah yeah but yeah how do you you

00:52:43

have to let that go that contribution

00:52:45

but how do you still about how's your

00:52:48

mental health been the um it seems like

00:52:49

the cancer thing really took its toll on

00:52:52

you but it most mostly been mostly been

00:52:54

good over the years yeah yeah pretty

00:52:56

good actually I I think um again I would

00:52:59

say my exercise has been a big

00:53:03

Factor yeah if I ever sort of feel a bit

00:53:07

down or I am

00:53:09

not thinking clearly it's incredible the

00:53:12

difference for me if I go for a run or I

00:53:14

go for a walk um I remember one of my

00:53:16

ex-boyfriends once said to me um

00:53:18

he said you're grumpy go out go for a

00:53:21

run yeah it's so trans it's kind of

00:53:24

weird that it's only like it feels like

00:53:25

it's been just maybe the last 10 years

00:53:26

that we've started seeing a link between

00:53:29

um you know mental health and exercise

00:53:30

everyone's always known about the

00:53:32

physical benefits I mean I'm such a

00:53:34

health

00:53:42

ier Helen all connected with the gut all

00:53:45

connected with your hormone cycles and

00:53:48

just sort of production of Serotonin and

00:53:51

oxytocin again it's it's sort of like

00:53:53

people have known it for a long time but

00:53:55

now all of the

00:53:57

links and Science and much more yeah so

00:54:01

after after recovering from um the

00:54:03

cancer you you went back to work and you

00:54:05

were at work like a few years after that

00:54:06

three years two years three years

00:54:09

I'm back in January of 2017. right

00:54:13

um so yeah like it's another three and a

00:54:15

half years yeah

00:54:16

so three and a half years yeah yeah was

00:54:19

your hat still and I mean I I guess it

00:54:21

was like you ended up being Deputy

00:54:22

[ __ ] leader was your heart still in

00:54:24

it and you still yeah I mean I was

00:54:26

[Music]

00:54:27

my heart was still in it and that you

00:54:29

know became minister of Education which

00:54:31

was a dream and it was pretty incredible

00:54:34

even though it was only for a short

00:54:35

period of time you know got some a few

00:54:38

major decisions through around like

00:54:39

digital fluency in schools and

00:54:42

decile system and stuff but I certainly

00:54:45

think moving

00:54:47

through particularly as well with um

00:54:51

leadership stuff and again I'd be pretty

00:54:53

careful what I say publicly about that

00:54:55

stuff because I don't want to

00:54:56

open Old Wounds

00:54:59

um but but I think it sounds like it's

00:55:02

on the tip of your tongue like the stuff

00:55:03

that you want to say I love the

00:55:05

self-editing though I think the thing is

00:55:08

that I didn't think that I would be

00:55:12

and politics for long we didn't see a

00:55:15

chance that Simon was going to win but

00:55:17

yeah I certainly in the nature of health

00:55:21

and everything I was there to kind of

00:55:23

help

00:55:23

for a period back yeah yeah it was um a

00:55:27

good time not a long time yeah

00:55:29

yeah and and you need and I

00:55:38

and I um or you know without where I was

00:55:41

needed or

00:55:42

um or if your heart isn't it whatever in

00:55:45

pull me out the back and say get out

00:55:48

um and the nature of the sacrifices and

00:55:51

the job you have to have people who are

00:55:55

100 in it because at the end of your

00:55:57

email as someone as I say who's life

00:56:00

will either be fundamentally changed or

00:56:02

not yeah if you if your heart's not 100

00:56:05

yet well I think um New Zealand

00:56:08

Parliament was probably lucky to have

00:56:09

you

00:56:10

for as long as um as long as what we did

00:56:12

seems like you're not for the right

00:56:13

reasons not the not the baubles well I I

00:56:18

mean I I think a lot of people in there

00:56:20

are yeah but as I say some powders

00:56:24

corrupt yeah and I think that whole

00:56:26

issue of the environment how they can

00:56:28

change it to make it kind of a better

00:56:30

environment because well there's a thing

00:56:32

I worry about the latest stuff that's

00:56:34

kind of played out on both sides of the

00:56:36

house is that I hope it doesn't

00:56:38

discourage people from going in there

00:56:41

and oh yeah so you're talking about the

00:56:43

um there's the the guy from labor that's

00:56:46

um accused the entire party of bullying

00:56:48

him and also the the the Tauranga guy

00:56:50

yeah uh who who was involved in a

00:56:54

bullying incident when he was 16. yeah

00:56:56

what are you what are your thoughts on

00:56:57

that it seems about rough hey like it's

00:56:59

almost like saying if you [ __ ] up as a

00:57:00

kid you may as well not try and do

00:57:02

anything with your life I mean there's a

00:57:04

QC review so yeah

00:57:06

it is

00:57:07

um but I think the big the bigger thing

00:57:09

is you imagine there might be a couple

00:57:12

of thousand people in New Zealand and

00:57:14

their heart of hearts might have thought

00:57:15

what one day they could be a member of

00:57:17

parliament when stuff like that occurs

00:57:19

what I worry about is a group of people

00:57:22

that just go nowhere in hell

00:57:25

they might be in the community they

00:57:27

might be in business but they're just

00:57:29

like oh

00:57:30

just it just we we need we're a small

00:57:33

country

00:57:34

yeah and I and I say to people look

00:57:37

and they worry about their worry about

00:57:39

media they worry about a whole lot of

00:57:40

things

00:57:41

95 of the job

00:57:43

is either constituency work or policy

00:57:47

work

00:57:48

doing good stuff there's a five percent

00:57:51

that is the public eye and yeah

00:57:54

seems like Obama went about it the right

00:57:56

way remember he put that big book out

00:57:57

and in the book he talked about smoking

00:57:59

smoking weed doing cocaine

00:58:03

I think that that is certainly something

00:58:05

I've said to I've said to people who

00:58:08

have um come and said ah can I really

00:58:10

stand this is what I've done or whatever

00:58:11

and I've just said

00:58:12

get it all out there people there are

00:58:16

lots of people who have done some quite

00:58:19

incredible stuff or you know naughty

00:58:21

stuff or whatever but that you can never

00:58:24

lie you can never ever not tell the

00:58:27

truth and you you know ideally you just

00:58:30

front footer

00:58:32

um

00:58:33

Sam

00:58:35

I think oh yeah the the totaling

00:58:36

gameplay there was a thing that he did

00:58:38

in the Tauranga paper where they said

00:58:40

what's your biggest mistake in life or

00:58:41

biggest regret and he uh he had some

00:58:43

answer like not coming back to New

00:58:45

Zealand sooner in hindsight it was

00:58:47

probably there was probably the

00:58:48

opportunity

00:58:49

I

00:58:54

feel like I'm interviewing

00:58:56

[Laughter]

00:59:01

well I've actually got a mate that um

00:59:03

he's doing very well in business and he

00:59:05

wants to get into politics one day and

00:59:06

I'm like [ __ ] no mate I've been to strip

00:59:08

clubs with you I've seen the things

00:59:10

you've done on a night out

00:59:12

yeah yeah that's true so for you what's

00:59:14

the next um 10 years of your life

00:59:16

looking like

00:59:16

[Music]

00:59:21

um

00:59:21

land there and I'm putting a couple of

00:59:23

pots on the land um yeah I read about

00:59:25

this in women's weekly so how often do

00:59:28

you get there it's a bit of a mission

00:59:29

like big Theory rights I'm working

00:59:32

between New Zealand and the states like

00:59:33

doing some education technology projects

00:59:36

um I've got a Visa for there and yeah I

00:59:38

haven't had heaps of time on Ireland I

00:59:41

also don't have anything on the land

00:59:43

except for a shed so I have been sort of

00:59:46

going over you know staying at different

00:59:48

people's places Etc but I hope yeah I

00:59:51

hope that I spend a large chunk of the

00:59:53

Year there but again I've kind of been

00:59:55

working that out because I've you know

00:59:57

got some projects that are in Auckland

00:59:58

projects that are in the United States

01:00:01

but in my ideal World I'd be spending a

01:00:03

chunk of time there I would why is that

01:00:06

why is it a special place for you

01:00:08

what's the significance

01:00:12

but I'm a little bit spiritual but I

01:00:14

used to every um summer in packaging

01:00:17

every money growing up mum we used to go

01:00:20

camping at Fletcher's Bay at the top of

01:00:23

the coromandel peninsula and I don't

01:00:24

know the barriers always reminded me of

01:00:26

that

01:00:28

um I love the community like I love the

01:00:30

people because I have represented the

01:00:31

area and I know a lot of the people it's

01:00:34

it yeah it's just very quiet like I do

01:00:37

my best thinking when it's quiet and

01:00:39

then I love

01:00:40

running and walking and swimming on the

01:00:44

trails and things I love fishing yeah

01:00:45

yeah I just sort of love the outdoors

01:00:47

yeah

01:00:48

did you do a reality show there when

01:00:50

you're like 17. yeah it does what was

01:00:51

that it's online somewhere right it's on

01:00:53

New Zealand on screen Fish Out of Water

01:00:54

what was that I read about it but I've

01:00:56

never seen it well so

01:01:06

the first reality I think it's the first

01:01:07

reality TV

01:01:09

series I want to say in New Zealand like

01:01:12

um but

01:01:14

I

01:01:15

my parents didn't end up going to the

01:01:17

briefing and I thought I was going on

01:01:19

kind of a head prefix camp

01:01:23

and they thought they were putting the

01:01:27

private school bring a hairdryer kind of

01:01:30

person or whatever all right and they

01:01:31

didn't realize that I'd had a bit of a

01:01:33

experience outdoors and fishing Etc so

01:01:36

it was sort of it

01:01:38

for food and then they took they took us

01:01:40

oh so were you going to be like the were

01:01:41

you supposed to be like the blonde City

01:01:43

princess uh the Kardashian yeah yeah all

01:01:45

right

01:01:47

no so that that didn't occur but it was

01:01:50

quite tough for some of the people

01:01:51

because obviously they filmed us and

01:01:54

then they took a cut like they basically

01:01:57

sort of played out was New Zealand

01:01:59

teenagers don't have the skills to adapt

01:02:01

and survive in a modern environment that

01:02:03

we've got but

01:02:04

it sort of tuned to chaos because

01:02:06

there's a lot of conflict and all that

01:02:08

stuff

01:02:09

what they want isn't it is it worth

01:02:11

watching when was the last time you

01:02:13

watched it uh I was pretty happy not to

01:02:16

see it

01:02:17

in fact I said to one of one of my

01:02:19

political mates I'm gobsmacked this has

01:02:22

never found the light of day and then it

01:02:23

did like a few years and I'm sure he had

01:02:26

something to do with it but yeah if

01:02:27

anyone wants to see it so it's called

01:02:28

Fish Out of Water and it's on is it on

01:02:30

NZ on screen or is it on YouTube

01:02:33

probably

01:02:37

yeah but

01:02:46

like because even after three or four

01:02:49

days the mental deterioration that

01:02:52

occurs of people when they don't have

01:02:54

food like I just said no concept how

01:02:57

quickly people deteriorate and then how

01:03:00

people cope with stress so it's just you

01:03:03

know there was one guy he he pretty much

01:03:05

I don't think he would have lasted like

01:03:07

that many more days

01:03:09

um another guy got pretty aggressive and

01:03:12

so I don't you know Lord of the Flies

01:03:15

inside a book about how just and there

01:03:18

have been other times in my career and

01:03:19

stuff where I've gone

01:03:21

oh yeah people are operating differently

01:03:23

when stress occurs yeah oh absolutely it

01:03:25

brings out I mean it brings out either

01:03:27

the best or worse in people doesn't it

01:03:29

yeah yeah okay so well I suppose we

01:03:31

should wrap this up but um just before

01:03:32

we part any any books that you recommend

01:03:34

like what books for you have been any

01:03:36

standouts that have been particularly

01:03:37

helpful in helping you get through your

01:03:39

journey and your struggles

01:03:42

um I think

01:03:43

I think we should pronounced this name

01:03:45

right

01:03:49

guy it's a it's a book that's focused on

01:03:53

they look at Super generians

01:03:55

um in Japan like I like a lot of stuff

01:03:57

that's sort of come out of Japan I I

01:03:59

like Malcolm Gladwell yeah yeah I like

01:04:03

reading Adam Grant you know he's a

01:04:06

normal he's an organizational

01:04:09

um psychologist right I find I I just

01:04:12

like the stuff that he writes

01:04:13

what else I read in a fair amount of

01:04:16

biographies I still do read the

01:04:18

political the political stuff

01:04:20

um but I also I mean I'm a geek in terms

01:04:23

of Education policy so Andre is like

01:04:25

that if you ever

01:04:27

you're working on different levels

01:04:30

if you're interested because I think

01:04:32

education is so important in the future

01:04:35

of the world because when you plan an

01:04:37

education system you're having to think

01:04:40

far into the future and what does it

01:04:41

look like again I know it's sort of

01:04:44

geeking out but I I like thinking a lot

01:04:47

about the world and then I read trashy

01:04:49

novels do you I like your I'd like um

01:04:52

Jody protocol you know I like her books

01:04:54

you know oh yeah you've seen them I

01:04:56

think my mum reads them yeah

01:04:57

[Laughter]

01:04:58

is it like a slight sort of slap oh no

01:05:02

absolutely not no it's one of those

01:05:04

things like Chiclet is that what they

01:05:06

call it

01:05:07

um probably yeah that's probably what

01:05:09

they call

01:05:10

well I'm out of jug before about you

01:05:12

reading brene brown but I'm guessing you

01:05:13

probably you may not even have any idea

01:05:14

who she is I do know oh you do yeah I

01:05:17

feel like that's a maybe two basic [ __ ]

01:05:19

for you um

01:05:21

no

01:05:23

I do watch online

01:05:26

um fair amount of stuff like she's done

01:05:28

some amazing TED Talks actually

01:05:31

um I um as I say Adam Grant's kind of a

01:05:34

little bit more the organizational

01:05:36

um psychologist

01:05:37

um what's another book that I got at the

01:05:39

moment Atomic habits oh yeah that's a

01:05:41

great book yeah fantastic ones jumping

01:05:44

through there at the moment but I do

01:05:46

like I

01:05:47

anything that surrounds psychology would

01:05:50

you do some papers well you've done

01:05:51

enough study for a lifetime

01:05:53

I think I've done enough study for my

01:05:55

lifetime I mean I'm sort of I'm really

01:05:56

enjoying some of the education projects

01:05:58

that I'm involved in at the moment I

01:06:00

would where I

01:06:02

we're at a virtual reality augmented

01:06:04

reality area

01:06:05

um so I'm I'm doing a little bit with an

01:06:07

American company at the moment but

01:06:09

um also

01:06:10

fascinated by Neuroscience and the

01:06:13

conversion with new technologies so if I

01:06:16

did do any papers it would probably be

01:06:18

in the Neuroscience yeah God you and

01:06:20

your friend with benefits must have some

01:06:21

riveting conversations

01:06:25

more chats about neuroscience and you

01:06:29

mentioned the psychology thing did you

01:06:30

ever engage with a therapist or anything

01:06:32

when you when you're going through some

01:06:34

of your [ __ ] you've been to any therapy

01:06:35

or I have yeah how did you find that how

01:06:38

like how many times did you go sort of

01:06:40

um

01:06:42

um a lot

01:06:43

um yeah you found it good

01:06:48

kind of spiritual right

01:06:52

both

01:06:53

um really good life changing actually

01:06:57

um did you did you because of who you

01:06:59

are did you find it hard to open up and

01:07:01

actually like you'd trust issues or

01:07:03

Olympus right okay

01:07:06

overseas yeah online

01:07:10

right online okay

01:07:13

safe space

01:07:14

I mean it's terrible because there's the

01:07:17

confidentiality thing but of course you

01:07:19

could trust that but but it's a mental

01:07:20

thing in your own for a variety of

01:07:23

reasons this person was recommended to

01:07:24

me but um

01:07:27

I I often say to my mates like

01:07:30

I think this capacity to do personal

01:07:33

work

01:07:35

and however you choose to do that like

01:07:38

obviously professionals have a range of

01:07:40

skills sometimes people have like a

01:07:43

incredible friends who are able to teach

01:07:48

skills of kind of working stuff through

01:07:49

but I for me it's worked and it's been

01:07:53

life-changing but just so I found when I

01:07:56

went it just gave you a different way of

01:07:57

like looking at things or different way

01:07:59

of framing things

01:08:00

I think

01:08:02

um

01:08:02

the mirror thing which is what's that

01:08:06

sometimes they are just reflecting back

01:08:08

to you what you've said

01:08:11

and drawing a few connections because

01:08:15

you might have been thinking it but I

01:08:16

mean you suddenly see that loud and

01:08:17

you're like oh yeah it probably makes

01:08:19

sense but also this particular person

01:08:22

I've seen he's got amazing memories

01:08:24

she's like I think you might have seen

01:08:27

that

01:08:28

oh [ __ ]

01:08:30

yeah no I I actually I think I mean I

01:08:33

think it's if you if you can do some

01:08:36

personal work it's good oh 100 I yeah I

01:08:39

I agree my biggest regret's probably not

01:08:42

doing it sooner I just had this huge

01:08:44

fear of going I know and it's irrational

01:08:46

really yeah it's it's yeah it's really

01:08:47

good it's like a personal trainer for

01:08:48

your mind but yeah that's right you get

01:08:50

to talk about yourself

01:08:51

probably get quite a lot of stigma

01:08:54

um but I feel like they would be

01:08:56

especially in in politics like you

01:08:57

should have to be stoic don't you you

01:08:59

have to

01:09:00

um I I canceled it hopefully times are

01:09:02

changing and that that actually

01:09:06

you're right in that we spend a lot of

01:09:09

time thinking about physical health

01:09:11

but

01:09:13

you're kind of mental health your

01:09:15

relationships

01:09:17

and how you how you hold yourself

01:09:20

sometimes when things go pear-shaped

01:09:23

um

01:09:24

boundaries

01:09:26

you know if you're not if you're not

01:09:27

looking after yourself but you're

01:09:28

looking after everybody else 100

01:09:31

everybody else and you're like after

01:09:32

Southfield That's not healthy it's not a

01:09:34

how do you how do you mean in what

01:09:36

respect like saying no to things or just

01:09:38

splitting yourself too thin or

01:09:40

[Music]

01:09:46

yeah

01:09:47

if you give getting burnt out from like

01:09:49

helping everybody else but again it had

01:09:52

never occurred to me that could be the

01:09:55

case I thought that's life of public

01:09:57

service if I think of the marathon

01:10:00

analogy I would never

01:10:03

think it was an intelligent thing to do

01:10:05

to not feed myself

01:10:08

through a run yeah yeah actually I spend

01:10:10

a lifetime thing about the nutrition and

01:10:12

the water that's required to make a

01:10:14

marathon work

01:10:15

so why the hell wouldn't you do that for

01:10:17

your mind that seems so obvious too

01:10:19

doesn't it yeah but do you think um you

01:10:21

needed the the health skier to come to

01:10:23

that realization

01:10:25

um I reckon probably the way that I am

01:10:30

wired I would have got there eventually

01:10:32

but it certainly happened earlier

01:10:34

accelerated the process yeah sure for

01:10:37

grief and oh and loss and a whole lot of

01:10:40

other things but yeah I I I I sort of I

01:10:42

wish there wasn't such stigma around

01:10:44

that stuff as you say it's like it's um

01:10:48

healthy healthy mind

01:10:50

I'm a massive advocate for it because I

01:10:53

I had a friend who um actually reminded

01:10:56

me a lot of myself and you know he's a

01:10:58

happy guy and he wore a very very good

01:11:00

mask he was he was bipolar but no one

01:11:01

apart from his family knew and yeah um I

01:11:03

worked with him for a number of years

01:11:04

and he didn't want anyone at work to

01:11:07

know because he didn't want it to affect

01:11:08

his workload or chances or whatever and

01:11:11

he he ended up taking his own life and

01:11:13

it occurred to me it was easier for him

01:11:16

to take his own life than it was to

01:11:17

speak to people about it and work

01:11:19

through it it's terrible and that made

01:11:21

me realize [ __ ] you know I'd like to

01:11:23

think I'd never make a decision like

01:11:24

that but it's like I never thought this

01:11:26

guy would do it either yeah so you've

01:11:29

got to prioritize that yeah

01:11:31

so

01:11:32

um what's next for you in the running I

01:11:34

can't with geez we've been chatting for

01:11:35

so long that's been wonderful Nikki K

01:11:37

but was it on podcast or off podcast

01:11:38

that you were telling me about

01:11:39

Antarctica were we recording then uh I'm

01:11:43

not sure but um so well so my mate has

01:11:46

she said I'm we're on a waiting list

01:11:48

again like I I want the experience races

01:11:51

so um I've kind of also gotten my mind

01:11:54

sampling in Africa through a safari or

01:11:56

the 18 that they it was like almost

01:11:59

Ultra marathons oh the comrades

01:12:02

I can't run that far like I I think 40 I

01:12:04

think I think she can well yeah I think

01:12:07

I think I am actually probably best at

01:12:09

like a half marathon but

01:12:12

a full marathon it's kind of where I

01:12:15

want to be yeah when you get to 42k it's

01:12:17

like that's that was the that was longer

01:12:20

than the right amount I always hit the

01:12:22

wall yeah 30k like and think why the

01:12:25

hell did I do this I just always go

01:12:26

through the same process the um the

01:12:28

comrades run in South Africa

01:12:30

um I think it's in Cape Town is there

01:12:32

it's like 90 K's yeah 90 case and uh

01:12:35

they have like a cut off time I think

01:12:36

it's 12 hours and then the race director

01:12:38

at 12 hours stands with us back to the

01:12:41

finish line and fires his gun and if

01:12:44

you're not finished in the cutoff time

01:12:45

you you know so there's people like five

01:12:48

meters 10 meters 15 meters away from the

01:12:50

Finish Line crying we see and

01:12:56

they waited for her to come over the

01:12:59

finish line so it just depends are you

01:13:01

over there with um catwalk yeah yeah

01:13:03

right right yeah yeah they do great work

01:13:06

yeah

01:13:06

yeah I um highly recommend those those

01:13:08

big um Mass participation events yeah

01:13:11

yeah like I've done all six of the world

01:13:13

Majors so there's um Boston New York

01:13:15

Chicago Tokyo Berlin and London and

01:13:18

they're all just Epic

01:13:22

oh that

01:13:24

Tokyo is probably my favorite because I

01:13:25

broke three hours that's the only time

01:13:26

I've done that New York's a really

01:13:28

special eh and I think getting to

01:13:30

Central Park and thinking you're

01:13:30

finished and then like oh [ __ ] no it was

01:13:32

a long way to go yeah Boston's amazing

01:13:34

as well because it's like it's steeped

01:13:36

in so much history

01:13:37

good luck with whatever's next thank you

01:13:40

yeah yeah on a scale of one to ten how

01:13:43

happy are you right now how happy are

01:13:45

you today

01:13:46

seven seven and a half good how about

01:13:49

how about maybe a seven yeah seven I'm

01:13:52

pretty good

01:13:53

I'm pretty good I'm trying to like

01:13:55

hustle this podcast and and make it a

01:13:58

you know make it a career there's a lot

01:14:00

of fear around that at the moment and an

01:14:02

uncertainty but I need to remind myself

01:14:03

to like to be patient and be in the

01:14:05

moment and enjoy the process and not get

01:14:07

ahead of myself but it's hard yeah

01:14:10

um you gotta hustle and let me know when

01:14:12

your podcast is finished

01:14:16

yeah where do your cats live are they in

01:14:18

the city or are they on there they've

01:14:20

been staying in this in the city yeah at

01:14:22

the moment they're um yeah they've been

01:14:24

staying in Auckland but yeah I yeah I'm

01:14:27

trying to work out how the logistics

01:14:28

work into how I mean I think they'll

01:14:30

come on the plane with me oh do you take

01:14:32

the plane over do you because the ferry

01:14:34

cheers they can you can get like

01:14:38

um fears for under a hundred dollars to

01:14:40

go each way but like if you're if I'm

01:14:43

going over for a month or something then

01:14:45

it makes sense to take the cats with me

01:14:47

but we'll see as an X MP does barrier

01:14:51

not give you flight privileges for life

01:14:54

just like there's no purpose just like

01:14:56

that people think XMP I mean it wasn't

01:15:00

it a thing back in the day it was back

01:15:01

in the day yeah

01:15:03

yeah that's good well you seem like

01:15:05

you're in a really good place and um I

01:15:07

can't thank you enough for being so

01:15:08

generous with your time today thank you

01:15:09

for having me yeah and thanks for um

01:15:11

yeah everything you did unselfishly I

01:15:13

think largely for the country I don't

01:15:15

know why anyone would want to do it but

01:15:16

you did thank you thank you

01:15:21

thank you very much for making it all

01:15:23

the way through hope you enjoyed that

01:15:24

again some housekeeping admin I say what

01:15:27

do you call that housekeeping I don't

01:15:28

know I don't know if it's housekeeping I

01:15:30

don't know if it's admin but uh it feels

01:15:31

like the right thing to say at the end

01:15:33

if you could do a couple of little

01:15:34

favors wherever you get your podcast

01:15:36

from most likely apple or Spotify can

01:15:39

you rate the show and if the platform

01:15:41

that you listen to podcast on allows uh

01:15:43

maybe take a minute to write a review

01:15:45

I'm not sure exactly what that stuff

01:15:46

does but I've heard other people on

01:15:48

other podcasts ask for it so it must do

01:15:51

something I'm still learning I've got no

01:15:53

idea what I'm doing I get feedback quite

01:15:55

a bit about the sound quality and stuff

01:15:56

and I'm doing my best I'm um I'm

01:15:59

learning a lot but I am making this up

01:16:01

as I go along and I appreciate you guys

01:16:03

so much for being along for the journey

01:16:05

all right thanks very much and I do hope

01:16:07

to see you next week on Runners only

01:16:09

with dom Harvey

Badges

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Episode Highlights

Nikki K's Journey
From politician to cancer survivor, Nikki K shares her transformative journey and insights.
“I really enjoyed my afternoon with Nikki K and I hope you guys do as well.”
@ 01m 22s
October 27, 2022
The Power of Running
Nikki K discusses how running helped her build confidence and cope with life's challenges.
“Running gave me a level of confidence in life that I hadn't had before.”
@ 06m 51s
October 27, 2022
Facing Challenges
Nikki K opens up about her breast cancer diagnosis and its impact on her life.
“Everything does pass, never stays raining forever.”
@ 12m 55s
October 27, 2022
The Importance of Diverse Backgrounds
Diversity in political cabinets leads to better representation and ideas. 'The best ideas come from the people.'
@ 21m 35s
October 27, 2022
The Weight of Public Service
Serving in politics can be a double-edged sword with highs and lows. 'You get to change the trajectory of a person's life.'
@ 29m 24s
October 27, 2022
Facing Health Challenges
A cancer diagnosis can shift perspectives on life and career. 'Absolutely, it gave me perspective.'
@ 37m 14s
October 27, 2022
Breast Cancer Diagnosis
Receiving the news of breast cancer was surreal and heartbreaking.
“This isn’t happening, this is not me.”
@ 41m 39s
October 27, 2022
Resignation Offer
In a moment of vulnerability, I offered my resignation, but was met with support.
“You’re not going anywhere.”
@ 42m 14s
October 27, 2022
Finding Gratitude
Despite the trauma, I found beauty in the connections I made during my illness.
“It’s the most beautiful thing because I’m closer to people.”
@ 43m 18s
October 27, 2022
Mental Health Matters
Discussing the importance of mental health and breaking the stigma surrounding therapy.
“It's like a personal trainer for your mind.”
@ 01h 08m 47s
October 27, 2022
Running Experiences
Sharing insights on marathon experiences and the emotional journey of running.
“I think I am actually probably best at like a half marathon.”
@ 01h 12m 09s
October 27, 2022

Episode Quotes

Running gave me a level of confidence in life that I hadn't had before.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
I consider that was a massive training exercise.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
Comparison's the theft of joy.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
It’s crazy that that’s what takes in life sometimes.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
I’m choosing to be grateful to be alive.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
I wish there wasn't such stigma around that stuff.
Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

Key Moments

Life Changes02:20
Resilience Lessons08:40
Change Election20:31
Highs and Lows29:43
Supportive Response42:14
Gratitude in Pain43:18
Life Reflections48:21
Reality Show Past1:00:51

Words per Minute Over Time

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