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Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!

April 21, 2024 / 01:35:15

This episode features Simon Bridges discussing his recent scooter accident, his new role as chairperson of NZTA, and his experiences in politics. Key topics include his recovery process, the kindness of strangers, and reflections on his political career.

Bridges shares details about his scooter accident in Auckland, describing how he lost control while trying to manage papers in one hand. He expresses gratitude for surviving without serious injury and recounts the support he received from a Pacifica family who helped him after the accident.

The conversation shifts to Bridges' new position at NZTA, where he emphasizes the importance of infrastructure and his desire to make a positive impact. He reflects on his political journey, including his experiences as leader of the National Party and the challenges he faced.

Bridges also discusses the emotional toll of politics, including dealing with public scrutiny and the impact on his family. He candidly addresses his past mistakes, including his stance on social issues and the lessons learned from his experiences.

The episode concludes with Bridges sharing his aspirations for the future, including a focus on family and personal growth, while maintaining a commitment to contribute positively to New Zealand.

TL;DR

Simon Bridges discusses his scooter accident, new role at NZTA, and reflections on his political career and personal growth.

Episode

1:35:15

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[Music]

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Simon Bridges welcome why is so good to

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be with you I feel like um I feel very

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privileged I just can you like I listen

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to the Martin henerson one you did a

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little while ago and um you just started

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by gushing about him and how handsome he

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was and how there'd never been a bad

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photo so if you could just say a few of

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those things about me as well I'd love

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that I cannot

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lie

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you no no no but I am a fan of yours

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like I I I met you for the first time um

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I think this is when you were leader of

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the national party and um it was just

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happened to be in the bathroom at spark

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Arena the night of the music um a mutual

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friend of ours Morgan introduced us and

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um I thought he's he's a really nice guy

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Simon Bridges thank you um and it

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reminded me of a quote from Michelle

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Obama I'm probably going to [ __ ] this

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one up um but she said something like um

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people are always harder to dislike up

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close yes you dislike me you dislike me

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from it no no no I think that's right

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and and that's certainly true politician

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I mean we just talking about it off here

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you know it's quite polarized ing right

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you you because you have to put your

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view out there and you know in any given

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day if your view is X there'll be 50%

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who have a view of why right so so

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that's always going to be um challenging

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I think I remember those the VA Awards

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is that what they called or

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whatever VM I remember being with those

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they take particular courage because any

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kind of entertainment event if you're a

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center right politician you know like

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73% of them freaking hate you right and

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they going to come up to you and have

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you on and you know about your policy on

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this or that it's it's amazing how

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political kind of yeah the creative

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sectors are so um I I went in with

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trepidation and my my St proof this yes

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and my fears were um were not misplaced

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you get you know there's some who are

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like you who actually very friendly and

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take you as you are and there's some who

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just want to hate

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you that's not that's no lie I remember

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it well you're a brave man going to that

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hey um first of all how are you you've

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recently had a scooter accident oh well

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that has been um that hasn't been ideal

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so I'll show you I mean obviously the

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there's a big scar there on my left um

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wrist and yeah it was um it wasn't ideal

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basically what happened this was a

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daytime accident so you no alcohol

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involved or anything no which is a

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scarless accusation that many people

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have level leveled as if they know me or

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something no I was actually it was very

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Earnest I was going between meetings and

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in my defense you know like I'm

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47 so you know re to be middle-aged kind

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of a guy but there's only three raised

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ways to get around our city in Oakland

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you walk and then you got hot and sweaty

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and you're late you Uber um or you

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scooter right so I I was scootering

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between meetings my cardinal sin was I

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um it was it was kyber pass Simon Street

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I had a bunch of papers in one hand so I

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was kind of trying to Freestyle with one

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with one one hand and the other with the

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papers and then I hit this dip which to

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be fair I've gone back and looked at it

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wasn't much of a dip and I flew man but

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God I feel um I feel really lucky like I

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I excuse me I F this this rest right

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like it was it was a jigsa puzzle by the

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end and the the surgeon and someone were

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pretty impressed by what I've done but

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actually I hit my face if you can see on

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its uh the side that that dark patch

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there is you know but I I feel deep

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fortunate that I didn't um get any form

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of brain um injury I was probably a bit

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concussed but um you know I can I still

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know I'm in a room with you and your

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name's Dom and you know but truthfully

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like a lot of people having scooter

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accidents and the surgeon was saying a

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lot of what I had but a lot of head

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stuff as well so like I kind of I don't

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want to say I feel like it happened for

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a reason but it it did literally and

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metaphorically shake me up and make me

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think oh I I'm glad I'm alive I'm not

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that I wasn't not glad but I'm glad I've

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got kids I'm glad I had a wife who still

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talks to me you know and some of these

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things you know I'm I'm fundamentally

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healthy you know I have some money in my

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pocket so I feel like yeah I don't want

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to be too but I feel like it's sort of

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happened for a reason and it's been it's

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been really good for me but my my wrist

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is still poked so every morning and

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evening I do these kind of uncomfortable

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exercises rehab yeah and did you um cuz

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you did an Instagram post from um

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hospital and you you mentioned the um

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the the family or the couple that um

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came to your Aid did you ever track them

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down no I mean they were lovely and I

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was like um cuz cuz when I hit the

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concrete I had a little sleep right and

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then I sort of woke up you just out cold

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like whether it was out cold or I was

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just like but I knew I couldn't get up

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and then I just sort of my eyes shut and

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I kind of and then when I sort of came

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to I mean I don't think I was out long

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um this wonderful Pacifica family I mean

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I think Samoan family were there and

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they were helping me they called the

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ambulance which never came by the way

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but anyway um so at the end I had to

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ring my wife and I was like you're going

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to be really angry with me you know have

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me telling me not to go on these

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scooters um but I was I was poach right

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like I I um and then I sort of I I

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wandered into the kind of the business

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building near us and I got blood all

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over there probably for what I lied down

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and I just couldn't get back but they

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waited with me I mean they're amazing

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just like um Angels or something right

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just here to help me I don't know what I

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would have done without them but I I

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tried to get at the time in my half kind

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of delirious St I was trying to get

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their phone number but they weren't

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having a bar of it they kind of but they

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stayed for the you know it was probably

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half an hour and that the older man was

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um old man his wife and his daughter and

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the old man was sort of had his arm

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around me and you know it makes me S

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emotional I hav thought about it

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actually much you know just how kind

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they were you know I suppose the

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question

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would we be that kind I like to think I

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would but um I'd probably be sitting

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there you know it's been 15 minutes I've

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got to go to a meeting you know um

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truthfully like I hate to say that but

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you know I feel like but they just had

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all the time in the world for it and um

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in the end my wife came she was

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angry and apoplectic and she did take me

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to the A&E at um at the city hospital so

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yeah they were they were Absolute Angels

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yeah that is fantastic hey that is cool

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cuz I I yeah I I was about to say I

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think most people would do exactly the

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same thing if you saw someone in but the

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reality is it's like yeah you'd be

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looking at your watch I would do it like

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you know I in my defense having said

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that I recall when we went for walk

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around not too far from actually with

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the scooter accident happened the domain

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uh one day and a guy had Elder elderly

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Indian man had sipped on the

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cobblestones or something and um kind of

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his face quite badly right and he was

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asking us where the hospital was right

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and we thought ah bug of this we've got

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to take him right so we got him in the

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car and um and and took him and took him

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into the A&E and so on and and looked

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after him and and you know I so so

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actually I know and the I've passed the

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tested level right when it's when it's

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happened um and you know in a busy will

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we I think we got to make sure we do

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pass that little life test yeah yeah

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100% well I'm glad you're okay are you

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scooter shy now were you go on scooters

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I know you I read an article a couple of

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years ago when you first

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oh no I was spending I was spending a

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lot of money a week on these scooters

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right you think I'm joking like a

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shitload of money um but like well

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because cuz like my office is up one end

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of Simon street I'm I'm constantly

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having to be down to commercial Bay to

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meet with corporates and all these sort

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of things and um it's like how do you

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get down there it's whatever it is 20

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minutes walk it's like 6 minutes um

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scooter so I was using them a lot um the

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honest truth is yesterday which I

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haven't before but I was just my wrist

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is starting to get a bit bit I've got a

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bit of flexibility yesterday I walked

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past a beam cuz it was a beam sorry beam

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um not your fault my fault it was the it

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was the middle-aged theid on it not not

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the scooter but I saw her and I thought

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[ __ ] I'd be a lot quicker if I just got

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on this right now and then I saw an

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image of my wife and I was like no I'm

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not getting I promised her I won't do it

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again right more scared of nly than the

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scir oh I actually think that's true and

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the other thing is like you know and I'm

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not I'm ashamed to say this and I didn't

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say like the mainstream media were after

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me and at the time and I wouldn't do

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interviews CU I know I'd get pillared

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for this and rightly so but like I

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wasn't wearing a helmet and I'm not

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going to wear a helmet cuz you know

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you're all right with your short trim

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but you know I've got lengthy here at

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the moment I don't want to um I don't

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want to get helmet here so so look on

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the basis of that I'm not going back on

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one yeah oh fair enough what by the way

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what is since you bought it up what is

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happening with you here what is is this

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like a mid Cris no cuz I've about seven

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of those right so that's it's it's just

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messing with people right I just love

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the fact that it's basically a form of

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trolling I think it actually is because

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I basically uh you know so my you know I

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got some responsible jobs in my life and

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I love the fact that you know I I um you

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know tonight I've got the AGM of the

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ockland business chamber right I love

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the fact that like 47% that's a

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statistical true fact by the way 47% of

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those people as will be like what is he

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doing with us here right you know I love

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that I like I love that like half like

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let him be free to have us here you know

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and and then there's this other half of

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like and and maybe it's a maybe it's a

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throwback from politics where you needed

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people talking about you I I I kind of

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like that in my own like not out there

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in the real world but in my own little

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circles it definitely creates a

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controversy and I like that it's a

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talking point as well it's a talking I

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am getting a hicc out at the end of this

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month by the way it's just that um you

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you know where it cost a living crisis I

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go I go to an expensive hairdresser you

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don't want to do it too often yeah but

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the money you're saving on scooters at

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the moment though corre um hey

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congratulations by the way you've at the

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time we're recording this you've just

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got a new job chairperson of the NZ K

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yes um have you started this job or well

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funny you should say I mean all these

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people out there think this is some sort

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of fancy cure it's it's it's real hard

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work right so much of the weekend was

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taken up with going through the the

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papers for our first board meeting and

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um you know so it's I don't know that I

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would say it's going to be like

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massively enjoyable but it is an amazing

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challenge you know this is a this is an

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outfit that that I was going to say

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spends but a better word is invests like

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several billion bucks for you and me

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every year um controls State Highway

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Network it has a big influence on what

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local government does around the local

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roads and the potholes that we've been

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hearing about and all that stuff so you

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know that I'm a sucker for punishment I

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like to be busy and have something

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that's significant and so this is this

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is you know one big thing like that

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where you know hopefully and this I know

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this gets a bit Grand and probably makes

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me sound like a wanker but you know

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hopefully we we we you know I'll look

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back on that and be able to say yeah you

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know we over that three six year period

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whatever it is um you know we we did

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some amazing things you know we got on

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with some infrastructure that meant that

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you know people could get around Dom

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could you know get to his you know mat's

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Place quicker and safer and all of those

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things so yeah I'm very early but I'm I

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I'm you want to make a difference I'm

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looking I want to make a difference as

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cheesy as that sounds and that's always

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been there and that's that's something

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that that makes me you know drives me

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I'm not someone who and I fear and I I I

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admire people who can I I don't switch

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off easy I I I you know I need

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going on um otherwise I'd probably have

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to think about life and family I'm

00:12:35

joking you know so I like to keep my

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busy my brain distracted and um and this

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is one heck of a distraction yeah I you

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you say you're kidding but I feel like

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that was um you reflected cuz I did

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breakfast radio for like 30 years and it

00:12:49

was a very very busy job um and I I feel

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like on reflection I keept myself as

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busy as possible so I didn't have to

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face my own demons in a way yeah I think

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that I think that's just me no I think

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that's I do I do try I think hopefully

00:13:04

all of that is true like if we're being

00:13:06

really honest about I think uh I think

00:13:09

hopefully though like I do try so you

00:13:11

know we're recording this reasonbly

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early in the morning you know I've

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already up been up for a few hours and

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and I I do try to I'm a morning guy I do

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I do try to have a bit of a period of

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you know whether some people would call

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it meditation some people call it prayer

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some people call what but I TR try and

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have a period at the start of a day day

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hopefully my children haven't woken up

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um and you know where I can um be still

00:13:35

and and maybe think and not not Grand

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thoughts but just you know maybe be

00:13:39

grateful about what's um so hopefully

00:13:42

I'm getting better at that with my long

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shaggy hair that's polarizing and my

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broken wrist in like 15 places and so on

00:13:49

yeah the next step is going to be like

00:13:51

beads like beads I would like a dud this

00:13:54

been I would except you'd have something

00:13:57

more to just completely take the but

00:13:59

maybe I need them to cover that risk but

00:14:01

but I totally would like I don't know we

00:14:04

just my kids and I just been watching

00:14:05

like um he's another polarizing figure

00:14:07

in Britain like but Jeremy Clarkson you

00:14:09

know the car dude and his you know after

00:14:11

Top Gear he's got whatever his one is

00:14:13

called and oh clar's F it's great oh

00:14:15

claron Farm is amazing but he's got like

00:14:17

19 man beads going on it's like it's and

00:14:20

I kind of works for an older guy so you

00:14:24

know if you see me rocking the beads

00:14:25

once in a while yeah hey um let's just

00:14:27

go back to that morning morning routine

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so yeah we are recording this at 8:00

00:14:30

a.m. on a Tuesday morning and I I I

00:14:32

fully respect that I know you're a busy

00:14:33

guy so it's early for me but um I I love

00:14:36

that but I wanted to ask you yeah more

00:14:38

about your morning routine so do you you

00:14:41

are you a cold shower guy or anything I

00:14:44

I I would be but I'm probably not um I'm

00:14:47

I'm probably not I was going to say

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manly but that's old fashion manly

00:14:50

enough for that um I like the idea of

00:14:52

those ice buckets like if I had ice

00:14:55

baths I should say like I feel like cuz

00:14:57

I get a bit of the Restless Leg in the

00:14:58

night you know and so I'm taking the

00:15:00

magnesium pills for that I feel like

00:15:02

that should be a Mike hosking ad do 800

00:15:06

magnesia But but so but but I um you

00:15:11

know I don't I don't if it was off here

00:15:13

or on here but we know we were talking

00:15:14

maybe off here about psychologist I've

00:15:16

never been to psychologist and you know

00:15:18

kudos to those who do and you know get

00:15:20

help from but but I have a little bit

00:15:23

over my I suppose life probably more

00:15:25

more funly enough post parliament I

00:15:27

needed it in Parliament but most

00:15:29

parament head you know the odd business

00:15:30

coach all kind of people and and a great

00:15:33

one that you know I've done a bit with

00:15:35

you know she talks about how we kind of

00:15:38

really only have two or three intense

00:15:41

hours of power right a day we think

00:15:43

we're amazing for like 12 hours and we

00:15:46

can do all of these things and so you

00:15:48

don't and um and and for me I try and

00:15:52

have that in the morning you know so

00:15:53

hopefully that's not just doing what I

00:15:55

do for the rest of the day which is

00:15:57

replying to 109 email mes or you know

00:16:00

it's it's something that's focused and

00:16:03

um and and sort of and maybe you know

00:16:08

this word means different maybe a bit

00:16:09

spiritual you know so so there's that

00:16:11

you know getting up sometimes it's I I

00:16:13

want I don't want to sound like a hero

00:16:15

like I I need my sleep and I think most

00:16:17

people do but but I don't go to bed too

00:16:19

late it might be five someday sometimes

00:16:21

if I've got a lot on might be earlier

00:16:23

sometimes spit later you know can be six

00:16:25

um get up um I've got a comfy little

00:16:28

kind of uh to call it a library would be

00:16:32

you know way too Grand but like little

00:16:34

book area with a nice comfy chair that's

00:16:37

got all these felic fruit on it um that

00:16:39

Natalie must have bought somewhere in a

00:16:41

market or something and uh and and I'll

00:16:43

sit in that I might read a bit um you

00:16:47

know might think a bit I'll have a

00:16:49

coffee um and then you know

00:16:51

eventually one of the kids will wake up

00:16:54

early and put on a television annoy me

00:16:56

um or an iPad or something and then and

00:16:59

there more of them and then they'll

00:17:00

little turn up but so that's nothing too

00:17:02

exciting but I think I think and I think

00:17:04

routines are good aren't they like um oh

00:17:06

the best yeah I think abely I and maybe

00:17:08

for men even more than women but maybe

00:17:11

all of us I think routines are and and I

00:17:13

think while I'm on a role you know we

00:17:15

live in a world where everyone's about

00:17:17

multitasking I just think one simple

00:17:20

thing you know like reading a uh you

00:17:22

know a poem from somewhere or you know a

00:17:25

book you're reading about something

00:17:26

that's got no instrumental value to you

00:17:29

that's really good for your

00:17:30

soul I love that you are religious a so

00:17:34

it's you're PR you're practicing of

00:17:36

gratitude or whatever is is it sort of

00:17:38

like a religious thing or I think so I

00:17:40

mean I think you know um religion's got

00:17:43

a dirty sort of name these days I think

00:17:45

we live in such a material world

00:17:47

physical world right um and and I think

00:17:51

in New Zealand that's but you know for

00:17:53

me look I am a practicing Christian you

00:17:55

know I'm I'm Church attendance isn't

00:17:57

amazing at the moment and but it doesn't

00:18:00

matter for me I mean it's it's uh you

00:18:03

know my father was a clergyman and so

00:18:06

you know I think it's always sort of

00:18:08

there right um and you know I know

00:18:10

people some have had bad experiences

00:18:11

that and and for some people it's you

00:18:13

know it's something entirely different

00:18:14

and I get that but I think what you in

00:18:17

politics and actually my business life

00:18:18

now what you learn is um we kiwis yeah

00:18:22

we are particularly SE secular lot but

00:18:24

you know we've got a lot of people

00:18:26

whether it's from India or China or

00:18:28

other parts of Asia

00:18:29

they come in with a lot of spiritualism

00:18:31

and I think I think we miss a bit of

00:18:33

that in our society and and and like

00:18:35

even this conversation right I'm

00:18:37

conscious there'll be people listening

00:18:39

right now [ __ ] that turn the the thing

00:18:41

off right cuz cuz cuz even the word

00:18:43

they're not sort of into but I think I

00:18:45

think that's a I think that's a poor

00:18:48

sort of sign actually Society I think

00:18:51

for some people I say it might just be

00:18:53

maybe you don't want the connotations

00:18:55

maybe it's meditation maybe it's you

00:18:57

know your yoga or whatever but I do

00:18:59

think those things where it's you know

00:19:01

gratitude a sense of some purpose higher

00:19:04

than yourself more than just yourself um

00:19:08

I I think that is important but I just

00:19:10

can I just put a disclaimer on this cuz

00:19:12

man some people are saying there this

00:19:14

guy does he think he's you know M mandhi

00:19:17

or something I am not right like I get

00:19:20

[ __ ] wrong every single day in the most

00:19:23

catastrophic ways right um so I just

00:19:26

want to put that disclaimer on things oh

00:19:28

no but we we all do that's part of The

00:19:30

Human Experience isn't it [ __ ] up

00:19:32

time and time again totally yeah totally

00:19:35

um let's talk about the is so so what I

00:19:37

know about you is you were um head boy

00:19:39

at school yes um you you played the

00:19:41

drums you're a drummer yes um what about

00:19:43

earlier than that any any sort of

00:19:45

cultural links you you are the um the

00:19:47

first moldi leader of a main political

00:19:49

party but I feel like you were sort of

00:19:51

disattached from totally from your your

00:19:53

moldi culture oh you know I think you

00:19:55

know way you were raised I think my

00:19:56

story is a very common one right at some

00:19:59

we all think we're special but you know

00:20:01

Mari dad you know white blonde mom off a

00:20:05

dairy farm uh father's family you know

00:20:08

pretty dysfunctional mom's much more

00:20:10

sort of you know functional um you know

00:20:14

and and on the the ma side of things you

00:20:16

know grew up in West ockland look we my

00:20:20

father he grew up in Hamilton his mother

00:20:22

you know was straight off of M but you

00:20:25

know he learned very you know clearly in

00:20:29

fact from his mother you know you don't

00:20:31

want anything to do with this mie stuff

00:20:33

you're never going to get anywhere with

00:20:35

that you know don't even you want to try

00:20:37

it in any way you can be a white malie

00:20:40

you know if I could put it that way I

00:20:41

mean I'm just you know I'm not saying

00:20:43

this right or probably wrong but how it

00:20:45

was right so we grew up with no sense of

00:20:48

it like I and and I think something

00:20:50

that's quite fascinating for me

00:20:52

today is um I've come to terms with all

00:20:56

that I think I have a much greater sense

00:20:58

my [ __ ] Papa and some of these things

00:21:00

but don't get me wrong you know tomorrow

00:21:02

I'll have to do a Mii [ __ ] toe um you

00:21:05

know walking into nzta look that will be

00:21:07

somewhat uncomfortable for me right

00:21:08

because I don't speak to Roo and you

00:21:10

know it's not a natural position for me

00:21:13

but I think I think something I've come

00:21:15

to term with but as leader of the

00:21:16

national party I had to come to terms

00:21:18

with is I'd always fundamentally just

00:21:20

sort I'm a um I'm a white guy right you

00:21:23

know I'm a white guy um you know this is

00:21:27

you know

00:21:28

guys over there that's they good guys

00:21:30

you know my class you know um but that's

00:21:33

not me but I had come to terms with the

00:21:35

fact that in truth a lot of people my

00:21:39

skin is is not light um uh you know this

00:21:44

you know a bunch of things about me a

00:21:45

lot of people perceive me as Mai right

00:21:48

and so you know I am a mai um or I think

00:21:51

we started will Jackson would say you're

00:21:53

you're a crap Mary exactly you're what

00:21:56

is a plastic TIY m m which you know

00:21:59

so it's it's um it's taken me a long

00:22:02

time to and it was really only as leader

00:22:03

of the national party that that there

00:22:05

was that Spotlight like everyone's on

00:22:07

you're right cuz you're the alternative

00:22:09

prime minister and it's and and just a

00:22:13

variety of used right to marry not mry

00:22:16

enough yeah I think I think I seen some

00:22:18

some racism in truth I think New

00:22:20

Zealand's um from all sides right it's a

00:22:24

very it's a very it's still this is

00:22:26

still a we like to think we're all great

00:22:28

but still a vexed thing in New Zealand I

00:22:30

think yeah there's there's a lot of

00:22:31

judgment and I'm guessing um I don't

00:22:33

know I'm probably projecting here but

00:22:35

did it come with some sort of like guilt

00:22:36

and shame like it was this is just the

00:22:38

way you were raised but it's like you

00:22:40

feel like you should know more even

00:22:42

though not your experience that you know

00:22:44

and you've got the situation where as I

00:22:46

say you know a lot lot of indeed you in

00:22:48

the me you know it's like H kind of

00:22:50

almost like um too marry and then on the

00:22:54

other side of you know as say you're on

00:22:55

a mud ey and you do a bit of that and

00:22:57

it's not your comfortable space because

00:23:00

you've never been bought up with it and

00:23:02

you know as you say it's that sort of

00:23:04

plastic malie or you you're your hes

00:23:06

you're not good at that you know but

00:23:08

it's just like kind of and in the end

00:23:11

you know [ __ ] a papa is [ __ ] a papa it's

00:23:13

there it's not to many a poo it's it's

00:23:16

quite but and the other thing that's

00:23:17

complicated we're all at a level Mong RS

00:23:20

I mean Willie Jackson as I am right you

00:23:22

know I mean there's you look at my

00:23:24

father is mai Jewish um um you know a

00:23:28

bit of I don't know what it is some form

00:23:30

of um British um my we do know cuz he

00:23:34

done this they did the spit test and it

00:23:36

went off to Ireland it comes quite

00:23:37

amazing what as you sort of see oh yeah

00:23:39

ancestry.com yeah it's quite amazing

00:23:41

we've all got a bit of Viking in us

00:23:42

correct and then Mama's got a bit of

00:23:44

Viking but fundamentally a bog standard

00:23:46

sort of um three veg uh um English you

00:23:51

know so it's kind of that's New Zealand

00:23:54

isn't it I think so yeah yeah what are

00:23:57

you well like yeah like I did the

00:24:00

ancestry thing I can't remember there's

00:24:02

a bit of Irish in there a bit of like 5%

00:24:04

Viking we're all muts I could see you

00:24:07

like in Vikings like or something or

00:24:10

running it no no because you're trimming

00:24:11

muscular I could see you with your shirt

00:24:13

off and some ancient tattoos and some

00:24:16

some ax or something and they'd be

00:24:18

saying

00:24:19

helmets attack speaking of that I'll

00:24:22

throw that back on you because um some

00:24:25

somewhere somehow there is actually

00:24:26

footage of you like running around

00:24:28

shirtless like a viking you were on

00:24:31

umena or young H like cuz basically how

00:24:35

did how did you end up there was the um

00:24:36

the uh I just needed the money Ryan

00:24:38

goling Show uh well no cuz what happened

00:24:41

was CU B before Ryan I was um cuz you

00:24:44

know I'm I'm sadly a bit old but um I

00:24:48

you grew up West Oakland they were doing

00:24:50

it it was back in the Heyday of yeah um

00:24:52

Hercules the young Hercules was it and

00:24:54

Xena Warrior Princess and they were

00:24:56

filming those out deep West Kum wherever

00:24:58

it was and I lived out there I needed

00:25:01

money right I mean it it's just like we

00:25:04

didn't we never had any money right I

00:25:06

just think my kids need to like learn a

00:25:08

bit of this you know and get the

00:25:10

experience of it so I I freaking needed

00:25:12

money and I was working then these were

00:25:14

in the terrible Old National Day party

00:25:16

days of you know interest on student

00:25:19

loans no allowance CU my father in like

00:25:22

46 Grand not 45 Grand and so you know I

00:25:26

was I was working bars Food Town anyone

00:25:29

who's old enough will remember Food Town

00:25:31

which is now whatever it is um and and

00:25:34

then and then I got myself on some list

00:25:36

as an extra and what would basically

00:25:38

happen is you'd Rock and it was you know

00:25:40

it was maybe it's where the early

00:25:41

morning it was like 4:00 a.m. or

00:25:43

something you you had to get yourself

00:25:45

out to Rose Bank Road West ockland

00:25:47

they'd put you on a van and there'd be a

00:25:49

bunch of young punks and I always got

00:25:51

casters cuz I've got great crossover

00:25:53

appeal of course you know I've got Cliff

00:25:54

Curtis I was always cast as like an

00:25:56

Asian Warrior or a you know a Polynesian

00:26:00

you know um background scene or

00:26:02

something and back in those days me

00:26:05

wrong it's never been amazing but I I

00:26:07

could at some level take off my shirt

00:26:09

you know we wouldn't be trying that

00:26:10

these days so you I remember running

00:26:12

through the field with bombs going off

00:26:14

and horses I I can't remember if that

00:26:17

was I think that was Zena um and then

00:26:19

and then the other one I remember was

00:26:21

her young Hercules we uh uh we were

00:26:25

doing sort of Staff fighting and like a

00:26:27

colise or something around the main

00:26:30

characters who were doing whatever they

00:26:32

were doing Kevin Zabo Kevin Zabo oh yeah

00:26:35

yeah yeah he was Hercules I feel like I

00:26:37

might be making up for Kevin Zabo but

00:26:39

but but there were dudes but but it was

00:26:41

that it was that sort of error um and

00:26:44

did I do any others I might have done a

00:26:47

little bit more but and they paid well

00:26:49

and the other thing I love was they have

00:26:51

a big freaking table with food and oh

00:26:53

the catering track Perk coffee and stuff

00:26:55

which I don't think back in sort of 1997

00:26:57

we'd ever seen before in West Oakland

00:26:59

was

00:27:00

amazing yeah and so have you have have

00:27:03

your parents or have you got it on a a

00:27:05

VHS or any no I think junos have tried

00:27:08

to find it so for all you know this

00:27:10

could be complete lies um but it is true

00:27:14

I mean it's not a it's not a good enough

00:27:15

story for me to make it up right you

00:27:17

know it's not like me sort of dating El

00:27:20

mcferson or something back in 96 or

00:27:22

something so no it is true but I I don't

00:27:25

know that there is well there will be

00:27:28

footage by definition but you'd have to

00:27:30

watch like a thousand series of Zena um

00:27:33

to find a frame in the background

00:27:35

correct which is still playing in

00:27:36

Germany I think on I think there's a

00:27:38

Zena Channel or something and then so

00:27:41

why why law school what What attracted

00:27:42

you to law uh honest answer so I had an

00:27:46

older brother who was a lawyer Timothy

00:27:49

and uh you know and he'd sort of and and

00:27:52

he'd done well cuz he got into Russ

00:27:54

McVey

00:27:55

which uh you know was the the big firm

00:27:58

at that time and my father was you know

00:28:01

deeply conflicted guy he he wasn't sure

00:28:04

whether he was about gold or money and

00:28:07

he was really into the idea of us being

00:28:09

successful I think cuz he came from

00:28:10

nothing and he was sitting there as a

00:28:12

poor clergyman earning about $9 a year

00:28:15

you know with six kids and and so he was

00:28:19

very ambitious for us he sought my older

00:28:21

brother Timothy doing well in law he had

00:28:23

a fancy job and I think by that stage he

00:28:26

was in the ukuk at a big firm and so he

00:28:29

just really wanted me to be a lawyer and

00:28:30

he fundamentally pressured SL bullied me

00:28:32

into doing law I'm glad I did I think if

00:28:35

I hadn't I would have um I definely

00:28:37

would have gone to University I mean he

00:28:39

pretty academic uh and I would have I

00:28:41

would have done politics I did do a b

00:28:43

Politics as well as my law degrees but I

00:28:45

would have I I probably would have kept

00:28:47

going and done a PhD in Marxism or

00:28:49

something and be a leftwing sort of

00:28:51

lectur at at Ackland University or aut

00:28:54

or something these days right so the law

00:28:56

was good cuz it's a it's a real vocation

00:28:59

I was good at it you know I got B at

00:29:01

time and um uh so I'm GL so I'm actually

00:29:05

glad my dad bullied me in quotes into

00:29:08

into law and it did suit my disposition

00:29:11

right I at school I was a nerd who was

00:29:13

into debating and you know argument and

00:29:16

and and I was always into politics you

00:29:19

know which was not a family thing that

00:29:20

was just a weird Simon ISM that was that

00:29:23

was sort of there you know um and and so

00:29:25

law suited that in a way and no really I

00:29:28

enjoyed you I was practiced for eight

00:29:30

years seven eight years I really enjoyed

00:29:31

that yeah it was yeah very Su so you

00:29:34

went to the UK to do some exra study is

00:29:36

that is that where you met Natalie I met

00:29:37

Natalie and you know I always tell the

00:29:39

stories it's a bit sort of hecky but

00:29:41

it's you know it's a it's a goody you

00:29:43

know we were she was young you know a

00:29:45

pomy girl actually Welsh polish but in

00:29:48

in from the Midlands and she was there

00:29:50

at our College you know these things are

00:29:51

like in Harry Potter star colleges you

00:29:53

know and they they they they've got the

00:29:55

big quad in the middle and and there was

00:29:57

a there was a cubby whole sort of city

00:29:58

areas and and we walked in and we kind

00:30:00

of brushed past each other and it was

00:30:02

all very kind of and we were in the same

00:30:04

we were in the middle common room which

00:30:06

is like we we if you're doing a masters

00:30:08

right we both she was doing a master in

00:30:10

English literature and I was doing a

00:30:11

masters in in in law and um you know

00:30:14

true story she sort of said you know we

00:30:17

then went out for Singapore noodles or

00:30:18

something a week or two after that but

00:30:20

she then said so she went home and rang

00:30:21

her mom and said you know you won't

00:30:23

believe it I've met the man in My Dreams

00:30:25

by the way I was thinner and younger

00:30:26

back then okay she said he's this really

00:30:29

handsome Japanese guy so did did you

00:30:32

feel the same way like was it an

00:30:33

instance of Attraction yeah I think it

00:30:35

was because I think um and the other

00:30:37

thing was in our middle common room like

00:30:39

they were quite boozy you you sort of

00:30:41

like Friday nights mean people it's it's

00:30:43

a caricature up you literally get

00:30:45

dressed up in um I think they call it a

00:30:48

sub fusk but you know it's it's a tux

00:30:50

right you have to wear a tux to these

00:30:51

things and it's really subsidized by the

00:30:54

college you slept down like5 and it's

00:30:56

kind of all you can eat and drink all

00:30:58

night right and its courses and you're

00:31:00

finishing with FL fruit platters and

00:31:02

sherries and it's outstanding right and

00:31:04

by the end you you're trolleyed and you

00:31:06

wake up on Saturday morning hang over um

00:31:08

and you're at long tables and all this

00:31:09

so so we're there at this group and she

00:31:11

and I were the only if you want to put

00:31:13

it this way kind of English is a first

00:31:15

language kind of anglos right or sort of

00:31:17

sort of you know because everyone else

00:31:19

was from Italy and Greece and Brazil and

00:31:23

you know Russia and it was a real United

00:31:25

na so so I think we were kind of forced

00:31:27

get either cuz we were the only two like

00:31:30

like I can remember one of the Greek

00:31:31

guys you know great guy like he's

00:31:33

probably a high court judge or something

00:31:35

in Greece right now doing incredibly

00:31:37

like he's a genius very Urbane and

00:31:41

sophisticated but you know after a few

00:31:43

drinks I I remember once I made a joke

00:31:45

about his mother right like I don't know

00:31:47

his mother right it was just a joke and

00:31:49

like everything changed right and I

00:31:50

thought uh oh I'm about to die here like

00:31:53

in all the all the kind of people from

00:31:55

that culture you know where is n and I

00:31:58

were the only ones who are not from that

00:31:59

kind of kind of world so we so we were

00:32:01

kind of yeah forced together peace and a

00:32:03

pie we started going out and yeah I knew

00:32:06

with I mean it's chy it sounds I knew

00:32:08

within like a fortnite we were we were

00:32:11

going to be together I just felt like

00:32:12

that was the thing but it was pressured

00:32:14

because I had a year of this master's

00:32:16

degree and then I was coming back to UK

00:32:19

uh New Zealand I should say because I

00:32:21

was bonded to my Law Firm they'd given

00:32:22

me a shitload of money to um to help

00:32:25

with this incredibly expensive um

00:32:28

year out in UK on a high pound at that

00:32:31

um point in time so I had to go back so

00:32:34

I was kind of like well you know you're

00:32:37

either coming with me love or you're not

00:32:39

but we got to make a decision really

00:32:41

soon because if you're not you know I

00:32:43

you know there's no point wasting

00:32:44

another nine months on this so I was

00:32:46

pretty hardcore and um but so we got

00:32:49

serious very quickly yeah is the out of

00:32:52

necessity yeah I don't know I suppose

00:32:54

and uh and then she was back at Mount

00:32:56

mongui where I was a young criminal

00:32:58

lawyer um and uh you know it was um were

00:33:04

they were good years yes yes so you um

00:33:07

you were a crown prosecutor in toong for

00:33:09

a while were you um were you ever a

00:33:11

defense lawyer uh I did a couple of

00:33:14

Defense cases a young commercial lawyer

00:33:16

in ockland you know we effectively Rich

00:33:18

Daddy had a son in trouble I mean I

00:33:21

don't know what the freak I was doing

00:33:22

back then that was before I'd been a

00:33:23

prosecut but I can remember one guy had

00:33:25

done like a 160 K up par rise young punk

00:33:29

whose dad was really wealthy I did the

00:33:31

what they call a plan mitigation for him

00:33:32

at the sentencing I remember s of

00:33:34

mumbling something about him being a

00:33:35

good kid from a good family won't do it

00:33:37

again I think he got a massive fine or

00:33:38

something I can remember out EBA you

00:33:41

know excess breath alcohol so I think I

00:33:43

did a couple of things of Defense but

00:33:46

fundamentally all my law career um was

00:33:50

Crown prosecution work so that's the you

00:33:53

know the police do the more the less

00:33:55

serious stuff and the crown prosecutors

00:33:57

come

00:33:58

um for anything that's that can go to

00:34:01

jury trial so I was a jury trial lawyer

00:34:03

effectively for like 6 and a half seven

00:34:06

years and I work really hard but was

00:34:08

very satisfying um very satisfying work

00:34:12

you know serious stuff the real you know

00:34:14

rape murder um serious fraud a lot of

00:34:17

drugs not me personally this trials you

00:34:20

understand um yeah um yeah did you end

00:34:24

up with any sort of like PTSD or

00:34:26

anything you must see some things like

00:34:28

I'm thinking of um you know the the

00:34:31

photo photograph evidence books that

00:34:33

you're privy to and the judge the jury

00:34:36

like I can remember I mean I won't

00:34:37

describe them because it's it's it's but

00:34:38

but I can remember some really heinous

00:34:40

stuff and I think you know I feel bad

00:34:41

now looking B I probably would have

00:34:42

handed it more but but it's a really

00:34:44

young guy and probably not allowed to do

00:34:46

this but I would show them to Natalie

00:34:47

been practice my my openings and

00:34:49

closings and cross examinations on her

00:34:51

right it you know a theme of the theme

00:34:53

of the podcast at 4:00 a.m. or something

00:34:55

before I did it at sort of 10:00 a.m.

00:34:57

that day and um like in a funny sort of

00:35:01

way more Trauma from law than politics

00:35:05

you know as much as politics has got its

00:35:08

um and don't wrong there's a bit of

00:35:10

Trauma from politics too but like I

00:35:12

think what happened at the end of that

00:35:14

CU I was a young guy the end of my legal

00:35:16

career I remember when I got out because

00:35:18

I'd become the candidate for tongo and I

00:35:20

was going to try and go to Parliament

00:35:22

and take that leap of faith really like

00:35:25

was a weight off my shoulders right

00:35:27

right because I was doing jury trials I

00:35:30

was like a Workhorse for this Law Firm I

00:35:32

was in I was doing every I was every day

00:35:34

I was in a jury trial right and the next

00:35:36

one sat the next down I'd be preparing

00:35:38

all night and and but I wanted that cuz

00:35:40

I wanted to get the experience right and

00:35:42

um you know many many jwy trials um what

00:35:46

happens is you become very

00:35:48

cynical very dark if you're not careful

00:35:52

and you start thinking everyone's a

00:35:53

freaking criminal so you go to the

00:35:55

supermarket and you see some guy picking

00:35:57

up some some big bottles of water or

00:35:59

something like oh he's about to do a big

00:36:01

cook of methamphetamine you know that's

00:36:04

that's or you know or you see some you

00:36:06

become very um you see the worst in

00:36:09

people you absolutely see the worst in

00:36:10

people cuz I I became um my specialty if

00:36:15

you like my last sort of say three or

00:36:18

four years were were and and and again I

00:36:21

you know treat sensitively I know for

00:36:23

some people it's even talking about it

00:36:25

at General levels disturbing see sure

00:36:27

cases right and you know there's big

00:36:31

problems in society and and uh and just

00:36:34

saying seeing those things around young

00:36:36

people and so

00:36:37

on you have to cope in some way and I

00:36:40

was probably a bit young and a bit kind

00:36:42

and I was ambitious and I wanted to and

00:36:45

but it I didn't realize at the time it

00:36:48

was affecting me but when I stopped and

00:36:50

the weight came off my shoulders I

00:36:51

realized how much actually I was in a

00:36:53

not I want to say a dark place that's

00:36:55

too dramatic but but it it would

00:36:56

definitely I was more cynical dark and

00:37:00

and I start everyone I met was like i'

00:37:03

be looking at you saying oh yeah that

00:37:05

guy he's you know that's that's what you

00:37:07

become if you're not careful and and how

00:37:10

do you do a job like that not take your

00:37:11

work home like say say you're dealing

00:37:13

with someone and uh they they get found

00:37:15

not guilty and you know they're guilty

00:37:18

yeah um then how do you like how do you

00:37:20

deal with the um complain well I didn't

00:37:22

you know I I did take it home I think

00:37:24

that was that was a problem and uh you

00:37:27

know and that that's always been you

00:37:29

know an issue for me I probably wear

00:37:31

these things too passionately and and on

00:37:33

my sleeve so you know that was a real um

00:37:37

and and and what it meant as well in in

00:37:39

in in the criminal law if you're a

00:37:40

prosecutor it's different if you defense

00:37:42

you ever an obligation to try and get

00:37:44

your guy or girl off um and and you know

00:37:47

Force the crown to really prove it

00:37:49

properly but if you're a crown

00:37:51

prosecutor you're meant to be what they

00:37:52

call a minister of justice and quite

00:37:55

dispassionate you know you're not be

00:37:56

meant to be overly zealous and trying to

00:37:58

get the prosecution you know it's the

00:38:00

old thing you know it's better to have

00:38:01

sort of um um 10 guilty men go free than

00:38:04

one innocent convicted was there was

00:38:06

like a a quote from the um the famous

00:38:08

Greek king yeah that's right and so so

00:38:11

so that's the that's the thinking so but

00:38:12

I would go pretty hard right I got

00:38:14

myself in trouble um a time or two in

00:38:17

the court of appeal right for being

00:38:18

overly zealous for pushing too hard um

00:38:22

but you know that was my way you know I

00:38:25

I I and I and I probably did if I'm Fair

00:38:27

did St thing oh they're all guilty you

00:38:29

know which is a bit of a trick right

00:38:31

then they're not all um I think what's

00:38:33

true in our system is they tend to all

00:38:35

be factually guilty of something if you

00:38:38

know what I mean like but but but but

00:38:42

actually the Crown's obligation is to

00:38:43

prove that charge on that day in

00:38:46

relation to that person and just cuz

00:38:48

someone's a bad guy doesn't mean they um

00:38:51

they have committed that crime Beyond

00:38:53

Reasonable Doubt so yeah it is um look I

00:38:57

think now I'm finally in a place where

00:38:59

I'm I still like to be busy but I you

00:39:02

know I'm finally a place where I'm not

00:39:04

working weekends I'm enjoying it as a

00:39:06

generalization I did this last weekend

00:39:08

because i' I've got my first board

00:39:09

meeting this week but but as a

00:39:11

generalization got smelling the flowers

00:39:14

much more balanced now that wouldn't be

00:39:15

balanced I think in probably a normal

00:39:17

per person's world but in my world it's

00:39:19

more balanced that it's been in a very

00:39:21

long time so did you always have those

00:39:23

um political aspirations was that always

00:39:25

was that always a plan for a young Simon

00:39:26

were you're like I'm going to do law for

00:39:27

a few years then uh yeah it was I think

00:39:30

it was I mean you know weirdo as that

00:39:32

makes me I think well I sort of explain

00:39:34

some people look some people are deeply

00:39:36

you know you take it um not that I'm

00:39:38

remotely comparing myself to say but you

00:39:40

know you take a Peter Burling he's into

00:39:42

yings you know you you you what have got

00:39:44

behind the mic and went people have the

00:39:46

different I I was attracted I was a

00:39:49

reader you know I mean I had you know

00:39:52

brothers who were more sporty than me I

00:39:54

you know preps into other things but but

00:39:56

I'm quite young um actually my auntie

00:39:59

who lived in America she she had a

00:40:01

bought us a kids series of books on US

00:40:03

presidents I mean it it was slightly

00:40:05

better than it sounds and they and I

00:40:08

would and I would read those and I don't

00:40:09

know it's just like a spark there right

00:40:11

I was like this is this is this is about

00:40:13

the world and what makes it Go Round And

00:40:16

I could see that politics really

00:40:17

mattered so I was a real Anor I got into

00:40:20

it very young as I say very very um

00:40:24

young I joined the National party there

00:40:25

was no history of that in my my um my

00:40:29

family I tell the story like I don't

00:40:31

even know if it's true anymore but I've

00:40:33

told it so many times it kind of must be

00:40:35

that it was Food Town actually chat to

00:40:37

North I saw these guys putting up a sign

00:40:39

I think for the 92 93 is it 93 election

00:40:41

um or pre sort of stuff there I saw them

00:40:44

doing that and i' and I'd been thinking

00:40:46

about thought yeah I want to be part of

00:40:47

the national party right um and so I

00:40:50

sort of went up to them and then suck of

00:40:51

a punish by end up delivering all of the

00:40:53

the guys leaflets probably for the next

00:40:56

you were young like

00:40:58

16 you know and uh um and so no I did

00:41:03

get into it but I think it was that

00:41:05

debating it was that ideas the same

00:41:08

things I liked about law um you know

00:41:11

Prosecuting a case if you like and um uh

00:41:15

so yeah it's it's and I got no regrets

00:41:19

you know it's a brutal life and I I

00:41:21

would not remotely lightly go back to it

00:41:23

but but what politics always is is very

00:41:26

interesting you know there's never a

00:41:28

dull moment and I do what I do miss

00:41:30

today is I do miss there's a lot I love

00:41:32

about not being in it um but but but but

00:41:35

the adrenaline is addict the rush of it

00:41:37

the rush I mean if you are always you

00:41:40

know if I was there in government right

00:41:42

now you you're always in demand you know

00:41:45

and that becomes very addictive your

00:41:47

phone is always going whereas now I

00:41:49

might have one text message waiting if

00:41:52

that you know I know if I was still a

00:41:55

senior politician I'd have like 200 you

00:41:58

know they are just always and that's

00:42:00

becomes that's that's that's every bit

00:42:02

not that I've ever taken methamphetamine

00:42:04

but that's every bit like a like an

00:42:05

illicit drug I I imagine you know yeah

00:42:09

is that what someone like Winston Peters

00:42:11

who's old now but he's still still vital

00:42:13

and still vibrant still doing it um do

00:42:15

you think that's that he's just had like

00:42:17

a lifetime of this High cortisol level

00:42:19

this sort of rush of being important or

00:42:22

being busy or being there's something in

00:42:23

that and and I wouldn't dismiss that I'm

00:42:25

not so I don't kind of make wouldn't

00:42:27

make that entirely negative right you

00:42:29

know like because it is about A Life

00:42:30

That's but but and I think a guy like

00:42:32

him you know

00:42:35

um I I think what's also true is for all

00:42:39

the stories about Winston we won't get

00:42:40

into them because I'll get myself in

00:42:42

trouble politicize this but but but I

00:42:45

think for all the what is also true is

00:42:47

this is a guy who I think has a very

00:42:49

good diet um you know does he yeah

00:42:51

actually um Andes he Lover he still

00:42:54

smokes the cies doesn't he um no comment

00:42:56

um but but but but you know but look

00:42:59

look you know the fish and the salads

00:43:01

and so on so I think you know I wouldn't

00:43:04

overplay it um uh you know in comparison

00:43:09

what what let me just I'm trying to be

00:43:10

diplomatic here but let me say this if

00:43:12

we look at the US presidential race

00:43:14

where you got a couple of older

00:43:17

gentlemen one of whom you know the

00:43:19

stories are has got as you know um

00:43:22

accurity issues I'm pointing in my head

00:43:24

oh Biden B yeah Winston's not actually

00:43:26

in there that category you know this is

00:43:28

a guy who's still very much um with it

00:43:31

and and at the you know near the top of

00:43:33

his game yeah well um there's a comedian

00:43:36

I really like and he made a joke about

00:43:38

Biden he said Biden could be the first

00:43:39

president we have that could be

00:43:40

assassinated by a punch to the

00:43:42

[Laughter]

00:43:44

gut but they're about the same age right

00:43:47

Biden and Trump they age and Trump seems

00:43:49

so much more vibrant and so much more

00:43:53

lively correct I mean you've got to hand

00:43:55

it whatever you think about Trump I

00:43:56

don't know be people have a lot of

00:43:57

thoughts about him and you know on a bad

00:43:59

day scares me too um you know and his

00:44:03

positions on sort of Russia and and some

00:44:05

of these things but um you're right I

00:44:08

think he's 78 I mean good grief he's

00:44:12

he's actually for guy who supposedly

00:44:14

eats a lot of McDonald's and and

00:44:16

Coca-Cola but I don't think drinks um

00:44:19

maybe he does I don't know um you know

00:44:21

he's pretty vibrant you're right the way

00:44:23

he gets up and gives those speeches and

00:44:25

you know um and he must looks like a I

00:44:27

would be fascinated to me cuz he looks

00:44:29

like a big guy a giant yeah yeah um okay

00:44:33

so you get so you get into politics um

00:44:35

you you get into the national party and

00:44:37

then uh there's this weekly TV interview

00:44:40

thing with you and just you're like you

00:44:41

called the Young Guns or whatever so

00:44:43

you're just um you're young attractive

00:44:47

um just sort of I suppose bringing a bit

00:44:49

of vibrancy into a a fairly D sort of

00:44:51

environment um yeah what are your

00:44:53

Recollections of that time oh definitely

00:44:55

I I had two lucky breaks um if you want

00:44:58

I mean you make your own lucky level and

00:45:00

you know but but a couple of things that

00:45:02

went very well for me early on in my

00:45:04

career um the first was beating Winston

00:45:07

actually even just talked about him in

00:45:08

Tonga and that was you know that was a

00:45:11

time of that was a phase thing he he was

00:45:13

caught up in a bunch of issues and I was

00:45:15

able to just as a young guy Glide past

00:45:17

and Tong was ready for change but we

00:45:19

were in a good campaign and you know one

00:45:21

one one well that that was great because

00:45:23

there was huge Spotlight on that

00:45:25

campaign and that election uh on the

00:45:27

television and so on and then the other

00:45:29

one was getting Young Guns I think John

00:45:31

ke put me forward for that and and

00:45:34

remember you know it's so different than

00:45:35

today and not to be entirely mean about

00:45:37

our TV we were talking about it off here

00:45:39

you know we as we talk about this you

00:45:42

know um uh news hubs about to be gone

00:45:45

tvnz's got its very real issues um this

00:45:49

was still the Heyday just it was Paul

00:45:51

Henry you know at its absolute height

00:45:55

everyone

00:45:57

like everyone watched this show right it

00:45:59

was unbelievable you know like it it's

00:46:01

like now if you were on say tvnz

00:46:03

breakfast you know a lot of people

00:46:05

wouldn't even necessarily kind of know

00:46:07

or so fragmented but but everyone was

00:46:10

watching this thing and so the had yeah

00:46:12

I think you're right um de I say you

00:46:14

know can people can make their judg who

00:46:16

was more attractive but probably not me

00:46:17

but but you know you had me and jinda

00:46:19

and um every week and we and we took it

00:46:22

seriously man like we would she would

00:46:24

Sledge me before we went on a you know

00:46:26

and

00:46:27

we got we got on very well right we had

00:46:29

a lot of fun and and and and Paul Henry

00:46:32

B the breast out of us you know he's a

00:46:34

very clever um you know fun interview

00:46:38

Who Loved politics he himself was a

00:46:40

National Party candidate um you know

00:46:43

back in the the The Ether so it was

00:46:46

Heyday stuff it really made me and and

00:46:48

it got me good like it's you know it's

00:46:50

the old th000 hours or whatever I mean

00:46:52

some people say you're never good mate

00:46:54

but like everywhere

00:46:57

Prime Time difficult topics had to be on

00:47:00

brief I knew if I got a word or two

00:47:02

wrong John K ring me and tell me off you

00:47:05

know not a you said did that but you

00:47:07

know what I mean like it it was it was

00:47:09

we were conveying the and I wasn't there

00:47:11

for myself you know I was obviously

00:47:12

trying to build my own brand but but I

00:47:14

was also there for the national party

00:47:16

which was in government to kind of make

00:47:19

sure we were we were dominating the

00:47:21

labor party and we were putting forward

00:47:22

the the the best positions for us in us

00:47:25

so it was that was like big thing but it

00:47:28

but because it went well if it gone

00:47:29

badly it would have been differently but

00:47:31

because it went well um you know I I was

00:47:34

very fortunate like I I I became a

00:47:36

minister quickly I then became a cabinet

00:47:39

minister and you know me wrong I work my

00:47:41

ring off but

00:47:43

um you know I I I scaled to the top uh

00:47:48

or close to the top you know by the end

00:47:51

of that time in government I think it

00:47:52

was number four or five in government so

00:47:54

you know that was a um and and I

00:47:56

remember when I when I was going to go

00:47:58

in I thought [ __ ] if I if I just become

00:48:00

a sleep committee chair which is lower

00:48:02

down the scale you know that would be

00:48:03

that' be pretty cool you know me of

00:48:05

parliament s in the end I did much

00:48:07

better than that so you didn't have like

00:48:09

I I of imagine you being like a head boy

00:48:11

at school having aspirations to one day

00:48:13

being prime minister um look look I

00:48:15

think you get that after a time right

00:48:18

but I think um you know I suppose I'm a

00:48:20

funny mix aren't we all you know of of

00:48:22

of confident and not confident you know

00:48:25

and I think that's a have moments yeah

00:48:28

some of thaty thing as well you know

00:48:30

it's you know bit bashful or you know

00:48:33

careful you're supposed to be humble

00:48:35

aren't you yeah I know that wouldn't be

00:48:37

a lot of people's perception of me

00:48:38

necessarily but you know so you so you

00:48:40

but but no I feel very

00:48:43

um grateful at the career trajectory in

00:48:46

those those early years lucky breaks

00:48:49

some hard work as well and um you know

00:48:51

it went very it went very well yeah

00:48:54

that's interesting um um interesting

00:48:57

little insight before that line about

00:48:59

John Key had watch you on TV and then

00:49:01

call you up or whatever because he's a

00:49:03

very very successful leader and and you

00:49:05

were you were part of his cabinet at a

00:49:08

um you a phenomenal time this party in

00:49:10

particular um but yeah did he te your

00:49:13

new one from time to time or not not not

00:49:16

often but but I think I think the thing

00:49:18

with John is he didn't need to you knew

00:49:19

if he was not oh yeah totally you know

00:49:23

look this a guy who's you know Trader

00:49:26

very successful guy hugely likable guy

00:49:29

I've haven't seen a lot of him lately

00:49:30

but actually I saw him last week and you

00:49:32

know you just can't help half an hour

00:49:34

with John you just love the guy right

00:49:36

whatever you thought five minutes before

00:49:38

you s of um he's a very personable

00:49:41

people person he is what what you what

00:49:44

you see but you knew when he wasn't

00:49:45

happy that didn't happen often but I can

00:49:47

remember one or two

00:49:49

times um you know where perhaps I'd got

00:49:52

something not quite right um and uh and

00:49:56

you

00:49:58

knew was it um you knew because in the

00:50:01

eyes I think it was in the eyes so he

00:50:03

didn't it's it's not what he said but

00:50:05

what he didn't say yeah I think it's in

00:50:06

the eyes and just the tone you know cuz

00:50:10

that wasn't normal EAS Oz happy go-lucky

00:50:12

John right of course he was much more

00:50:14

than that I'm I don't say that

00:50:15

dismissively but but but he gave that

00:50:18

demeanor so when that wasn't the

00:50:20

demeanor you knew so yeah you knew you

00:50:22

[ __ ] up correct there was even um so

00:50:26

so you when you were doing this young

00:50:27

gun stuff so you you were Merit to

00:50:28

Nataly um I think this J was probably

00:50:30

single at the time this is pre clar but

00:50:32

there's even rumors that you guys um

00:50:34

yeah I supposed this is your onscreen

00:50:35

chemistry but there were rumors that you

00:50:37

guys were each other Paul Henry would

00:50:39

sort of spoke that you know say oh the

00:50:41

chemistry is electric and all these

00:50:42

things you

00:50:44

know but we look we got on very well

00:50:47

there's a lot I like about jender you

00:50:48

know obviously U I disagree with a lot

00:50:52

that she would believe and and and you

00:50:55

know um some of the way she handled you

00:50:58

know the the the the the last three or

00:51:00

four years of her her prime prime

00:51:02

ministership um but you know as a person

00:51:06

um like your I admire the way she

00:51:09

um uh you know actually carried things

00:51:13

very lightly in a way I probably didn't

00:51:16

or don't you know I you know if I've got

00:51:19

an issue I'll stress about it and work

00:51:21

too hard on thing about I think she she

00:51:23

um she you know came with things at face

00:51:26

value quite lightly and and so in some

00:51:29

regards while you know people have and

00:51:31

you know I think in my view rightly so

00:51:32

will point to some weaknesses in her

00:51:34

leadership star some big strengths and

00:51:36

you we got them very well we didn't have

00:51:38

a laugh and and you know we were kind of

00:51:40

this sort of in quote celebrity couple

00:51:42

at the time will bit you know not in any

00:51:44

not in any real sense I

00:51:46

stress yeah that's did you ever sort of

00:51:49

um I mean it was a crazy turn of events

00:51:52

that saw her uh quickly rise and then

00:51:54

become Prime Minister and a very

00:51:55

successful prime minister for a time at

00:51:57

that did you ever foresee that I must

00:51:59

admit others did uh I didn't maybe it's

00:52:03

the old familiarity breeds not contempt

00:52:05

but a kind of a complacency and I and I

00:52:08

felt she was too um what I've just said

00:52:11

relaxed if you like um uh you know for

00:52:17

that kind of grinding Prime ministerial

00:52:19

role that you've seen from from a Helen

00:52:21

Clark or a John keyword it's it's every

00:52:23

aspect of your life because in what

00:52:25

level it has to be um so she was she she

00:52:28

was a very different style of politician

00:52:32

and and prime minister I I I think and

00:52:34

and of course you know um what first

00:52:37

ever I think you know young mom as as

00:52:39

prime minister which is a is a

00:52:41

remarkable um a remarkable thing yeah um

00:52:46

do you want to talk about I've got a

00:52:47

list here of some of the some of the L

00:52:50

like greater and greater shits um so

00:52:55

there were there was some I was just

00:52:57

Googling you the other day doing some

00:52:58

research and um I mean how many items

00:53:00

are there there must be like 10 trillion

00:53:02

items there's there's there's a lot so

00:53:03

there's um some secret tapes where

00:53:05

there's a lady called Morin pure and you

00:53:07

were caught on tape calling her [ __ ]

00:53:09

useless yes um I I don't know the

00:53:11

backstory about that but I I mainly want

00:53:12

to know like what happens afterwards

00:53:14

like first of all it's a it's a secret

00:53:15

tape so that's the ship ship play ship

00:53:18

form um when that comes out like do you

00:53:21

have to phone morine and groble

00:53:23

something like that I mean I think um

00:53:25

you know there so many many things I

00:53:28

think it's awful like we we've all at

00:53:31

one level you can say you know well

00:53:32

we've all said ridiculous things but

00:53:35

we're not all getting secretly taped

00:53:36

right that's explaining way I think

00:53:38

what's true though was you know all of

00:53:40

that said You know here was me on a

00:53:43

colleague um saying things I shouldn't

00:53:47

have and I deeply regret that um I I

00:53:50

think you know if you take that period

00:53:51

you know what was amazing to me and I'm

00:53:53

I'm going to be a bit self- serving here

00:53:54

but hey you know it's my version of

00:53:55

History so I'm going

00:53:58

um

00:54:00

we I would probably that's like one of

00:54:04

the very exceptional ones that I do

00:54:06

regret

00:54:07

fundamentally in what was a top curvy

00:54:11

very controversial time when the

00:54:12

national party was eating itself and

00:54:15

going through deep upheaval I don't look

00:54:18

back with really much regret at all I

00:54:20

feel like at the time with the facts I

00:54:22

had I acted with integrity and well and

00:54:25

not everyone seen that from the outside

00:54:27

cuz it looks like a but but I I believe

00:54:30

I exhibited um I'm going to say this was

00:54:32

not modest in New Zealand terms but if I

00:54:34

was an American I'd say it Donald Trump

00:54:36

would suly I I I believe I exhibited

00:54:38

great leadership through that period

00:54:40

right and I kept the and actually we

00:54:42

kept momentum and I kept the National

00:54:44

Party in the mid-40s through that period

00:54:46

which you know is is a is a remarkable

00:54:48

feed and that was I say I it was team

00:54:50

but you know we had policy momentum we

00:54:52

were doing a lot of work behind the

00:54:53

scenes that that at a level set up what

00:54:55

what has you know a government a

00:54:57

government now with with policy and work

00:55:00

so you know I'm philosophical I kind of

00:55:04

say you know I think it was you know and

00:55:06

he's not a politician you'd hear quoted

00:55:07

very often but I think it was Richard ni

00:55:08

Nixon at his impeachment or when he had

00:55:11

resigned from being president after

00:55:12

world but you know you kind of don't

00:55:15

know the um highs if you haven't had the

00:55:18

lows you know if you haven't had the

00:55:20

valleys the highs aren't as high so I

00:55:22

don't look back with regrets I I kind of

00:55:25

embrace all of what happened it was a

00:55:28

roller coaster um and and I don't think

00:55:32

you know if I think about my conduct be

00:55:34

one thing if I thought you know you you

00:55:35

got a bunch of things wrong but I think

00:55:36

if people now look back a bit more sort

00:55:39

of soberly objectively you know we I say

00:55:43

we the likes of myself and Paula Bennett

00:55:45

and my leadership team I think we

00:55:46

handled things well fundamentally what's

00:55:49

remarkable and the media was after me

00:55:51

every single day for about 2 years as I

00:55:54

held on as long as I did actually and

00:55:57

really it was in the end Co that that

00:55:59

that that sort of got me not the not the

00:56:02

not the 15 scandals with the well the SC

00:56:06

the scandals are all fairly minor on the

00:56:07

big scheme of things aren't they

00:56:10

um so um Winston Peters you had an

00:56:12

interesting relationship with him

00:56:13

there's there's some clips online that I

00:56:14

found where um like he he he mocks you

00:56:18

for your your kiwi ex totally um and how

00:56:20

you say China he's like I don't know I

00:56:22

don't I don't know where this place CH

00:56:24

is um which like Schoo yard bullying

00:56:27

really isn't it yeah I mean I

00:56:29

think uh you know is that water for duck

00:56:32

speec too is that embarrassing at the

00:56:34

time are you humiliated look look when I

00:56:36

reflect on it's a bit like at the time

00:56:37

not it's not embarrassing but I think

00:56:39

you know think B think look I I did

00:56:40

think the the overall it wasn't so much

00:56:43

Winston actually um but but you know

00:56:46

some of the media aspect on that I think

00:56:48

was um was a bit classist and possibly

00:56:52

racist I'm to say that you know I do

00:56:55

think they would have treated others

00:56:56

differently um and and you know the

00:57:00

media is a pack right and they go

00:57:01

through phases and you know if they're

00:57:04

not you know the labor party will have a

00:57:06

bit of this going on the green party

00:57:07

right now where where the media's

00:57:10

recalibrating they've got a new

00:57:11

government they'll be pretty hard on

00:57:12

them right and that was the phase they

00:57:14

were in a national so that's sort of

00:57:16

sort of that so you know I'd be lying

00:57:19

I've said those don't things don't

00:57:20

affect you in the end they do and they

00:57:22

were hard days hard to get up right but

00:57:25

you know did and we kept um we we kept

00:57:29

moving but oh look now I'm philosophical

00:57:33

but yeah at the time some some of the

00:57:35

stuff was hard yeah like there was a

00:57:37

slushy thing as well like we um so I

00:57:40

think the the labor party under

00:57:43

justun uh was it Kelvin Davis the

00:57:45

corrections Minister he bought um like

00:57:47

100 Slushy machines for prison guards to

00:57:50

have in the office and for some reason

00:57:52

like um yeah you you saying it was a

00:57:55

waste of taxpayers it became like a big

00:57:57

meme thing yeah it did is it because of

00:57:59

the way you say SL the I suppose the

00:58:01

lesson there is there's a difference

00:58:03

between what works in Parliament and

00:58:04

what works in social media right

00:58:07

Parliament has lost a lot of its Verve

00:58:09

right it used to be a rough tough

00:58:11

rambunctious place and I like that um

00:58:13

but it's not well suited for the clip

00:58:16

things up you know where things can be

00:58:17

taken out of out of context what had

00:58:19

happened there was we we had the

00:58:21

government on the ropes actually and uh

00:58:24

and I did a 5 minute spe speech you get

00:58:26

sort of time limits and and then I moved

00:58:29

to get another 5 minutes I got another 5

00:58:31

minutes which was unexpected and you

00:58:33

know I'm I'm yelling slushies now In the

00:58:36

Heat of the Moment in that Parliament it

00:58:39

worked right but when you replay it as a

00:58:42

meme like a million times to young punks

00:58:47

who were 17 who've got no freaking idea

00:58:50

what Parliament is let alone in the

00:58:51

house it doesn't work right um but you

00:58:55

know

00:58:56

[ __ ] happens yeah I don't know why it

00:58:59

was so funny but it just was um and what

00:59:02

about to Todd Muller so he he was the

00:59:04

lead of that um it's very Game of

00:59:06

Thrones isn't it Parliament it's um it's

00:59:08

not it wasn't that period I think you

00:59:10

know what what what in government it can

00:59:12

be quite like a military you know you're

00:59:13

marching forward the key sort of English

00:59:15

government you know it's all everyone

00:59:18

knows their place you don't you know

00:59:20

it's very hierarchical what happens

00:59:22

though after like that N9 years of that

00:59:24

is there's like a pressure valve that

00:59:26

needs to be L off and the craziness

00:59:28

comes right and as you say Game of

00:59:30

Thrones I mean it was Game of Thrones

00:59:33

without the killing I'm not aware of any

00:59:34

killing right um so you know it just was

00:59:38

right and uh so again I'm not judgmental

00:59:42

you know we got to a point as I say I'm

00:59:44

surprised in a way I didn't get done

00:59:47

earlier but Co came I knew at that point

00:59:51

I was in a I was in a pickle right I

00:59:54

could either speak out about Co and kind

00:59:56

of go nuts on it and some of the issues

00:59:59

there that wasn't going to go so well or

01:00:01

I could be quiet but if you go quiet you

01:00:04

lose momentum and you go down in the

01:00:05

polls anyway I knew there was a number

01:00:07

in the polls if I went under it um in

01:00:10

terms of my party support they were

01:00:12

going to move right these guys were on

01:00:14

on routine you know for for for years

01:00:17

looking for any reason because you know

01:00:19

parliament's a place full of ambitious

01:00:21

play people and rightly so that that

01:00:24

time came um you know I wasn't going to

01:00:27

go down without a fight we put it to

01:00:29

vote you know the rumor has it who knows

01:00:31

I lost by one vote um and uh you know

01:00:36

that was that maybe who knows maybe in a

01:00:38

life sense it was all doing me a favor

01:00:42

you know cuz cuz cuz life's pretty good

01:00:44

now yeah everything happens for a reason

01:00:45

but um yeah I can't imagine that time

01:00:47

would have been very nice so yeah you

01:00:49

were replaced by Todd Malo he made a

01:00:51

very very good opening speech I thought

01:00:53

seemed very Prime ministerial and then

01:00:54

how many days later how many days did he

01:00:57

last H it's a 50 something yeah because

01:01:00

because it's tough right it's all that

01:01:02

stuff and that's why I say you know um

01:01:04

pat on the back to me you know I was

01:01:06

going through there for years right at

01:01:09

that perod very very hard and you say

01:01:10

it's tough look at it was but the

01:01:12

tougher bits when you're in it actually

01:01:15

it's a bit like that when I told you I

01:01:17

got out of criminal law going to

01:01:18

politics that moment when you're no

01:01:20

longer leader of a party that's got a

01:01:23

lot of division at that time and issues

01:01:26

the way comes off your back in life is

01:01:28

good like I as long as internally within

01:01:30

yourself you're not sitting there

01:01:32

thinking I've done these things wrong

01:01:34

and I I genuinely you know maybe it's

01:01:36

what I just have to tell myself but I

01:01:37

think personally genuin I didn't you

01:01:40

know I don't sit there with a lot of

01:01:42

regret that I got things wrong as I've

01:01:43

already said so actually the the you

01:01:46

know it was a hard day I had to go and

01:01:47

give a kind of a eat Humble Pie speech

01:01:50

and you know and the irony of these

01:01:52

things is as the media always do because

01:01:54

they're out to get you every once

01:01:56

they've got you they're your friend

01:01:58

again right and they're like if only he

01:02:00

had given that speech when he was leader

01:02:01

it's like well I did but you guys never

01:02:03

covered it you know that's the way it

01:02:05

goes they're like a pack of vultures

01:02:07

they they yeah they scavengers that want

01:02:09

blood but the next day life is good

01:02:12

right and um and you know uh you know

01:02:16

felt felt very very felt very very good

01:02:19

I a plea would be to you know those out

01:02:21

there who actually don't follow the

01:02:22

stuff that closely because I think those

01:02:23

who do have a bit more of an

01:02:25

understanding you know don't go up to

01:02:27

David Seymour or Winston Peters or

01:02:29

Nicola Willis or Chris epkins or you

01:02:31

know James Shaw Mar Davidson and you

01:02:34

know swear at them and tell them what

01:02:36

[ __ ] they are look that's you don't

01:02:39

really know they're all there trying to

01:02:41

do their thing and and you'll have a

01:02:44

snippet of something and so those ones

01:02:46

would get me you know you sit down on a

01:02:48

plane and some guys in your face abusing

01:02:51

you for an hour you know it's like oh

01:02:53

totally you know and and it's just kind

01:02:56

like so you know for all of the people

01:02:58

think you know oh that politicians a hot

01:03:01

or that you know being a good politician

01:03:03

at a senior level requires a lot of

01:03:06

self-control that's that's quite Aston

01:03:08

that's astonishing to me um people are

01:03:10

always nice in person like there that

01:03:12

phrase keyboard Warriors but there there

01:03:15

does seem to be a thing with politicians

01:03:16

where it's like it's fear game that's

01:03:19

right it shouldn't be but hey look all

01:03:22

of the

01:03:23

sounds it was a great ride yeah and

01:03:26

there's a lot of privilege that comes

01:03:27

being in politics and you know you get

01:03:29

to meet amazing people do some really

01:03:31

interesting things so yeah well what

01:03:33

about Christopher lexon you worked with

01:03:35

him for a while yeah um what what did

01:03:37

you what did you make of him I is you a

01:03:39

very personable good guy and um you know

01:03:43

he he um I think I think what's going to

01:03:46

happen with this government it's you

01:03:47

know be a bit careful because now I'm a

01:03:49

a a public servant at a level in the C

01:03:52

chair role and I you know and I think

01:03:54

the code means I I have to sound like I

01:03:57

could work comfortably with either part

01:03:59

of the parliament and all of that um and

01:04:01

that's all True by the way you know I of

01:04:03

a regard for for Chris Hipkins um and

01:04:06

and some of his colleagues but you know

01:04:08

I think he's good guy Chris luxon I

01:04:10

think he's doing a good job and I think

01:04:12

um you know it's a new government it's

01:04:15

going to pick up momentum I think that's

01:04:17

inevitably what happens with governments

01:04:19

happen with the adun government you know

01:04:21

the key government um the Clark

01:04:23

government will happen with this one too

01:04:25

and what about um so the um the the gay

01:04:28

marriage vote you you voted against that

01:04:30

yeah you look was was that like um

01:04:33

because of your religious beliefs or you

01:04:35

look back now and think actually I'd

01:04:37

vote differently now or I would vote

01:04:38

differently now because so you get hung

01:04:40

up on these ridiculous things that you

01:04:42

know don't matter and well they do

01:04:44

matter but you know your kind of

01:04:47

technical

01:04:48

arguments about them don't matter so you

01:04:52

know I'm clear I would change that now I

01:04:56

mean I think in the end it it it wasn't

01:05:01

you know out of some sort of you know

01:05:02

somewhat cast bigotry or silly business

01:05:05

like that you know I had my technical

01:05:07

reasons why I thought um you know I I

01:05:11

thought we were in a better place at

01:05:12

that time not to not not to support that

01:05:17

law but you know in the end I was wrong

01:05:19

I was missing a big picture it was all

01:05:21

trees without the forest you know and uh

01:05:26

um and that is sort of that yeah is is

01:05:29

that um is it quite liberating for you

01:05:31

to admit that or is it hard does it feel

01:05:33

like getting some humble pile it doesn't

01:05:36

feel like humble pile I think I think

01:05:37

the issue with these you know um

01:05:41

social issues like that is they become

01:05:45

very

01:05:47

binary right you know um well we voted

01:05:50

that way must be a

01:05:51

homophobe um and and and you know and

01:05:55

and and and and have a position on the

01:05:57

LGBT um uh Community you know so so this

01:06:01

is the I I think that and and people

01:06:04

then you know they they they typ cast

01:06:06

you right well this guy's just a

01:06:08

religious nut who has that view I don't

01:06:10

think that's fear um in in my case maybe

01:06:13

in some people's case you know as I say

01:06:15

there was some Nuance technical uh

01:06:17

reasons but you know I missed the wood

01:06:19

for the trees and um and I regret that

01:06:22

well I feel like luxon had the same sort

01:06:23

of thing like people were like he's a

01:06:24

fundamentalist Christian he's going to

01:06:25

ban abortion it was like um almost

01:06:28

scaremongering and fear tactics in a way

01:06:32

so yeah what was the what was the um Co

01:06:34

stuff so this is when uh you you were

01:06:37

still leader of the National Party you

01:06:39

got death threats at the time yeah

01:06:41

definitely I mean I can remember um I

01:06:43

can remember what did you say do

01:06:44

notified those look in the end if you go

01:06:47

back and look at the various sort of

01:06:50

statements they were by today's standard

01:06:52

very moderate right you know I wasn't

01:06:54

running the crazy conspiracy theories um

01:06:56

I wasn't you know we were making again

01:06:59

quite technical arguments around you

01:07:02

know fact I pushed for the lockdown it

01:07:04

wouldn't have happened as fast it did if

01:07:06

I hadn't pushed Jinder ardun and her

01:07:09

government into it both privately and

01:07:10

publicly right but then there was a

01:07:13

point where the the social costs and the

01:07:15

overall costs of the thing were worse

01:07:18

than the was trying right and I was

01:07:20

making that case but but I think what I

01:07:22

learned then is you can be right too

01:07:24

early the crowd isn't caught up with you

01:07:27

right and and

01:07:29

um and and actually you know if you look

01:07:31

at Chris Hipkins right now he's getting

01:07:32

some Flack you know that he should be

01:07:34

saying and jumping around more actually

01:07:35

in those early days of opposition I

01:07:37

don't think that's fair at all right you

01:07:39

better to sit there and let the

01:07:41

government play its role sort of

01:07:44

technically speaking let them do that

01:07:45

and but I that wasn't my style I was out

01:07:48

there I was pushing for it and yeah

01:07:49

death they're scary they're really the

01:07:51

thing about these things it's not so

01:07:52

much me and how it affects me it's how

01:07:55

fix your family right and and admittedly

01:07:57

what happened then is we you know our

01:08:00

house at the time in Tonga um

01:08:02

parliamentary service um end up fitting

01:08:04

it with more Panic alarms and you've had

01:08:06

hot dinners and fences and da D and you

01:08:09

know my father-in-law who was with us

01:08:11

for Lockdown from the UK cuz he got

01:08:13

trapped here um you know every s he'd go

01:08:16

to turn on the lights down and where he

01:08:18

was sort of living in a kind of a granny

01:08:19

flat top here and press the Panic alarm

01:08:21

and they'd be police there in 3 minutes

01:08:23

and was good to know they came i' never

01:08:26

seen guys scale a wall so fast right but

01:08:29

but it was scary and I do think um you

01:08:32

know I I think little bit of a tendency

01:08:34

new people say you know it's the center

01:08:36

left politicians who have all this hard

01:08:38

stuff happening actually no I think it

01:08:40

happens across the Spectrum and you know

01:08:43

I'm sure that the Chris Lux and the

01:08:45

David Seymour and so on are uh are

01:08:48

living with these things even though

01:08:49

they don't talk about them um uh much if

01:08:53

at all how so how we kids at the time

01:08:56

they bit oh young right so they've just

01:08:58

they're 12 10 six now so we're talking

01:09:00

you know sort of I don't know 9 8 six

01:09:04

three sort of things okay so how do how

01:09:06

do you explain that to them we' be

01:09:07

pretty sheltered um but but what is true

01:09:10

and I don't not so talking about my

01:09:12

children per se but I think what is also

01:09:14

true and see who was I talking to

01:09:16

someone in public life you know wasn't a

01:09:18

politician Sports actually very

01:09:20

significant I won't say who Sports uh

01:09:23

star and you know

01:09:25

again what would affect me was not what

01:09:28

happened to me I could take the abuse I

01:09:30

got crocodile skin in the end and the

01:09:32

issue becomes you end up being too

01:09:34

unsensitive right to what people are

01:09:36

saying which sometimes is valid

01:09:37

criticism but it's how to fix your

01:09:39

family kids go to school they get

01:09:42

bullying at school right you know it

01:09:44

only takes two in a class and they're

01:09:46

having you on because your dad is blah

01:09:48

or your m is you know D and um that's

01:09:51

the stuff that really you know affects

01:09:54

affects you um how your kids are when

01:09:57

they're too young to I understand they

01:09:58

haven't done anything uh wrong but but I

01:10:01

think that happens across various forms

01:10:03

of public life yeah but it shouldn't and

01:10:06

you um what you were saying before that

01:10:07

about you having like a crocodile skin

01:10:09

you shouldn't have to no you know what I

01:10:11

mean it doesn't it doesn't make it right

01:10:13

we should be condoning that at all no

01:10:15

It's Tricky one isn't it it's um I

01:10:17

always think yeah you're it's very you

01:10:19

got to be careful to when someone's

01:10:22

abusing the crap out of you you know

01:10:24

there'll be something at it where they

01:10:25

they've got a point potentially right um

01:10:29

and and you just you want to you know

01:10:30

you want to want to want to want to if

01:10:32

there is a Val point you want to sort of

01:10:34

hear that yeah um so when you're a

01:10:36

leader of the opposition and you're

01:10:37

doing tough interviews like say um like

01:10:40

Mike hosing on ZB or John Campbell had

01:10:42

Campbell live at the time Jack tame

01:10:45

perhaps on Q&A or Sunday whatever it is

01:10:48

um do you do you get nervous before them

01:10:51

how much prep's involved do you sit down

01:10:53

afterwards and have like a post analys

01:10:55

or debrief with your team I think as a

01:10:57

cabinet minister and the opposition

01:10:58

leader I I certainly overprepared um you

01:11:02

know I to me would been unforgivable to

01:11:04

go into that and not technically have an

01:11:07

answer around something and be accurate

01:11:09

about it and and I think you look back

01:11:11

on my record and say actually that guy

01:11:12

was strong on that he never got his

01:11:14

facts wrong he always constructed the

01:11:17

argument right um once I lost the

01:11:20

leadership though it was a bit more of a

01:11:22

whatever kind of a phase of life in fact

01:11:25

the interviews flow better when you're

01:11:26

like that right it's you know you're a

01:11:28

bit less prepared you're kind of more

01:11:30

laser fear kind of who cares sort of

01:11:32

thing and and actually what you find is

01:11:34

these things aren't necessarily as

01:11:36

probing as you um and and your demeanor

01:11:38

matters as much or more as kind of

01:11:40

having all the all the the the the facts

01:11:43

right so I think by the end I went into

01:11:45

these things pretty easy oy they're very

01:11:48

different styles you know your jack tame

01:11:50

one is whatever it was 10 minutes if

01:11:52

it's going badly for you 15 minutes um

01:11:55

you know they keep it going um you know

01:11:58

my look look at a level very cynically

01:12:01

speaking as a politician I would look at

01:12:02

those things say look actually the vast

01:12:05

preponderance of kiwis ain't watching

01:12:07

this on a Sunday morning so actually

01:12:09

it's all just about style demeanor if

01:12:11

they want to keep chipping in and

01:12:12

interrupting you and you know with their

01:12:15

questions and trying to cross-examine

01:12:16

you like their per Mason let them let

01:12:19

them finish their thing don't talk over

01:12:21

them let them say whatever they want and

01:12:23

then get back to what you want to say

01:12:24

right so it's you end up the the the

01:12:26

Mike hosking one's more like an orgasm

01:12:28

right it's like over before you began

01:12:30

right I don't know about you but you

01:12:32

know it's like it's like it's like 2

01:12:34

minutes right and it's it's kind of so

01:12:36

that is that is a very intense

01:12:38

commercial radio so I don't know I was

01:12:41

particularly good at that but you got to

01:12:43

know what you're going to say before

01:12:44

you're on like if you got three points

01:12:46

you want to get out cuz he might go

01:12:48

anywhere obviously you know you get a

01:12:50

briefing though like you get a brief of

01:12:52

the theme of the chat or not really I

01:12:54

mean look at a level it'll be like oh

01:12:56

we're on to talk about crime or you're

01:12:58

on to talk about you know Oakland City

01:13:00

issues you're on to talk about um you

01:13:02

know the text Cuts you're promising but

01:13:04

but look of course anything can go and

01:13:05

of course the reason they get you on may

01:13:08

also be something else that you don't

01:13:09

want to talk about in addition to that

01:13:11

thing like you know um you know a

01:13:13

personal issue you've got or whatever

01:13:15

and then um you know and then there's

01:13:17

everything else in between you know your

01:13:19

more soft TV ones where it's like being

01:13:22

more by a by cuddly teddy or whatever

01:13:24

and a pack of labradors yeah yeah you

01:13:26

know so so they're all a bit they're all

01:13:28

a bit um different but I think my

01:13:31

general advice to APS today to be sort

01:13:34

of go with good demeanor you know you

01:13:36

know your facts but actually it's it's

01:13:38

more how you appear that people are

01:13:40

smelling aren't they you know it's kind

01:13:42

of that test what's it like with the

01:13:44

sound off um are you s this SM if Jack

01:13:47

wants to talk over you hey Hakuna Matata

01:13:50

my friend is all good yeah well it's

01:13:52

it's interesting that CU I've had um uh

01:13:55

Ashley Bloomfield on the podcast yes and

01:13:56

he talked about the hosking thing and on

01:13:58

hosking mornings he said him and his

01:13:59

coms team would be up at like 3:00 a.m.

01:14:02

prepping for it like had be [ __ ]

01:14:04

himself and wake up in a sweat those

01:14:05

mornings before the alarm went I imagine

01:14:07

and then um and the lead up to the last

01:14:09

election Winston Peters did a train rck

01:14:11

of an interview with Jack T and uh there

01:14:13

were opinion pieces afterwards saying oh

01:14:15

Winston Peter's not fit for Parliament

01:14:17

because this and you you're right no

01:14:19

one's watching no one no one really

01:14:21

cares or people that do watch and then

01:14:22

they make up their of course there's

01:14:23

different purposes you know from Winston

01:14:25

Peter's perspective having an in quotes

01:14:27

train wreck uh interview might might be

01:14:29

a wonderful thing right because there's

01:14:31

a segment of uh New Zealand who um you

01:14:35

know quite likes that actually so it's

01:14:38

all where it's a bit different if you're

01:14:40

you're a leader of a one of the two

01:14:41

bigger parties where you know you're

01:14:43

seeking to be I think you Ed the word

01:14:45

before you know more States manly uh

01:14:47

around or womanly around those things

01:14:49

did you did did you sort of like Winston

01:14:51

Peters you like sparring with him ah

01:14:52

totally look I mean he's he is a great

01:14:55

New Zealand character um you know who's

01:14:59

done a um you know who's who's who's

01:15:03

who's done so much um you know I think

01:15:07

um I I see to him relatively recently

01:15:09

something like you know someone needs to

01:15:10

write a book about you

01:15:12

Winston I said but you you might need to

01:15:14

be gone so that there's no defamation

01:15:16

laws involved and uh and and uh and he

01:15:20

said something like you know I've been

01:15:22

too busy living life not writing life

01:15:25

um but you know I think um whatever your

01:15:29

view about Winston Peters he has been a

01:15:31

big singular figure around New Zealand

01:15:34

Poli now for for for a very long time

01:15:37

and and I think right now you know he he

01:15:40

brings

01:15:41

um some welcome significant experience

01:15:45

experience into the government um you

01:15:47

know everyone will have their view but

01:15:49

um that's sort of mine yeah I I I agree

01:15:53

like you see uh your footage of him with

01:15:55

mold dun in the 70s like he's he's been

01:15:57

he's like the Forest Gump of New Zealand

01:15:59

politics he's everywhere through every

01:16:01

set of government over the last 50 odd

01:16:03

years he's been there it's it's been a

01:16:05

remarkable career and um yeah it's going

01:16:08

to be a huge loss when he eventually

01:16:09

there will have to be a big Winston book

01:16:11

sometime you know like you know New

01:16:14

Zealand politics um and um yeah it look

01:16:18

as I say they'll have to make sure

01:16:19

they've got a good defamation lawyer but

01:16:22

he'll wait till he dies it's the only

01:16:23

safe time to do it there was another

01:16:25

clip I found on YouTube of um you

01:16:27

getting kicked out of parliament by

01:16:28

Trevor Mel who's the speaker of the

01:16:30

house is is that a big is that a moment

01:16:33

of Shame is it like is it like an O

01:16:34

black getting a red card I think it's a

01:16:36

moment of Pride um by the end you know

01:16:38

it's it's a you know I think I think it

01:16:40

depends who you are right there's

01:16:42

there's some there'll be some cats in

01:16:43

that Parliament like oh no I've been

01:16:45

kicked out of parliament my mother saw

01:16:47

this what am I going to do you know and

01:16:49

and but but but but you know I I I think

01:16:51

with my courtroom background you know

01:16:54

and and a bit of a dose of cynicism it's

01:16:56

like there is fundament I mean there is

01:16:58

if you really push the luck you end up

01:17:00

getting fined right you don't really

01:17:01

want that because they can end up sort

01:17:04

of take docking your pay every week for

01:17:07

the rest of your parliamentary term

01:17:09

right and Natalie wouldn't be real happy

01:17:10

with that right you don't want to make

01:17:11

sure so so there are if you really go

01:17:14

for the doctor there's but you know

01:17:17

there are can be some quite extreme um

01:17:20

results but that hasn't happened in a

01:17:21

long time I think Nick Smith nearly got

01:17:23

it happenening to him but that hasn't so

01:17:25

by the end of parliament right and some

01:17:27

people will be appalled by this but you

01:17:29

know it is what it is by the end of

01:17:31

parliament when I was no longer lead of

01:17:32

the opposition actually you know I I I I

01:17:35

knew I was going because I you know I'd

01:17:37

done my my Dash and I think i' you know

01:17:39

been Finance spokes person

01:17:41

in with Trevor you know I just had a

01:17:46

rule um I'm going to get kicked out once

01:17:48

a week and and I you know it was this

01:17:51

was not difficult I would just I'd just

01:17:53

start taking points of order they'd have

01:17:56

no point to them you know really um I'd

01:17:59

give them the borax and you know you

01:18:01

knew by about the third time you're

01:18:03

doing that he was going to be like out

01:18:05

and and that was cool cuz then I could

01:18:06

go back to my office and watch Netflix

01:18:08

or whatever it was I wanted to do did

01:18:11

you um once you left Parliament did it

01:18:13

feel um I don't know how how did it feel

01:18:16

did it feel like there was a big hole in

01:18:18

your life I reckon what makes a massive

01:18:20

difference is how you go I.E are you

01:18:23

going cuz you've decided

01:18:25

or you're going because you lost and you

01:18:28

you weren't reelected right so I think

01:18:30

that psychologically makes a mess of you

01:18:31

know I got a bunch of Pals who who you

01:18:34

know they they failed to win their seat

01:18:36

or whatever and they're not back in and

01:18:38

that that sort of in quotes haunts them

01:18:41

right they always want to get back you

01:18:43

know they want to get back because

01:18:44

they've got unfinished

01:18:46

business now look at a level I could

01:18:48

always say I've got a bit of Unfinished

01:18:50

Business you know it would have been

01:18:52

privilege to being New Zealand prime

01:18:53

minister and some of these but but I'd

01:18:55

been there I'd I'd seen it all been

01:18:58

pretty high up um I'd done my time and I

01:19:03

decided to go and so I think

01:19:04

psychologically knowing you're going on

01:19:06

your

01:19:07

terms um makes a big difference I think

01:19:10

what's also true is knowing that you

01:19:11

know I had some opportunities right if I

01:19:13

was sitting here right now and you know

01:19:16

um it didn't G too well for me on the

01:19:18

outside and I didn't have some

01:19:19

meaningful work to do that that that

01:19:21

that could be a real show look I I know

01:19:24

I it was it was liberating it was

01:19:27

exciting you know as soon as I got out

01:19:29

you know we were we were offshore for a

01:19:31

little while on a kind of a Holland had

01:19:33

been able to have for for quite a long

01:19:35

time um I knew I had a job to go to um

01:19:39

so

01:19:40

so you know I didn't have that but I I

01:19:43

can see how people

01:19:45

do yeah what are the um perks of being a

01:19:48

minister that you miss is there anything

01:19:50

there's only one thing right and and and

01:19:53

look that it's amazing they're not doing

01:19:54

it anymore no there's two things I'll

01:19:56

give you two um number one is the crown

01:19:59

car right and by the way you know yeah

01:20:02

and but and and they're using them less

01:20:03

and less and it's remarkable to me but

01:20:05

but I tell you what if you're a senior

01:20:06

Minister you work fraking hard and you

01:20:11

are always tired and you may well have

01:20:14

been at a function where you know you're

01:20:15

not getting drunk don't get me wrong but

01:20:17

you know it's a you'll have had a couple

01:20:19

of glasses of wine or something you

01:20:21

should not be driving I mean I I would

01:20:23

have been a danger

01:20:25

to other Road users where I driving

01:20:28

those situations and being in that Crown

01:20:30

cast say if you're the minister of

01:20:31

Transport or something you're out in the

01:20:33

regions checking out what's going on

01:20:35

meeting with MS and so on you know that

01:20:38

that is an office you know that is

01:20:40

you're in the back there and you know I

01:20:42

I was pretty staunched right I some of

01:20:44

them would be chatting to the driver and

01:20:46

you know listening to um know one of

01:20:47

your many radio shows or something you

01:20:50

know um I I was always working right I

01:20:53

always had 10 phone calls to make I had

01:20:55

papers to read I was a conscientious guy

01:20:57

so I I I think that that Crown car thing

01:21:01

was like a privilege but it was an

01:21:03

essential right and I'm telling you now

01:21:05

if I ever someone ever if I ever won the

01:21:07

Power Ball and get 45 million I'm going

01:21:09

to get a driver again right cuz I think

01:21:11

that's amazing and then secondly the

01:21:14

other one that you don't get in

01:21:15

opposition you get this you know little

01:21:17

room in Parliament and the Parliament

01:21:18

rooms are nice because they got the wood

01:21:20

paneling and so on but but what you get

01:21:22

when you're back in the Beehive is you

01:21:24

do get your own dunan shower right every

01:21:27

Minister gets a dunan shower and that's

01:21:29

quite a you sort of want that right

01:21:31

you're there long hours you know I don't

01:21:33

I don't want to be using the communal

01:21:35

kind of ablutions and uh so there'd be

01:21:37

two for you oh that's good what what

01:21:40

perks do you get for life is there

01:21:41

anything anymore do you get do you get

01:21:42

domestic flights no is that no no

01:21:44

there's none of that there was I mean

01:21:46

you go back to the the 80s and '90s it

01:21:48

was unbelievable I mean I think there

01:21:50

you know you still have the the last of

01:21:52

a breed who who who you know if they

01:21:54

travel internationally they only pay 10%

01:21:57

of the fear you know um um you know but

01:22:01

but but I assure you in my case there is

01:22:03

zero um left um you know as I sit here

01:22:07

youday two today two two about two years

01:22:10

on from leaving Parliament there is no

01:22:13

remaining I think the only thing I could

01:22:15

think of is if I went to Parliament I

01:22:16

haven't um I don't think I literally

01:22:19

have since I've been out um I could go

01:22:22

and sit in the parliament on the side

01:22:25

they actually in the the house as they

01:22:27

call it I think that's about the only

01:22:29

remaining thing I'd I'd sort of have

01:22:31

left as a kind of a a special treatment

01:22:34

yeah but there's there's no Financial

01:22:36

thing all of that the last of it died

01:22:39

out with key actually where he um and

01:22:42

and I suppose the government I was part

01:22:43

of got rid of it yeah and from a um a

01:22:46

personal like mental perspective how how

01:22:48

have you been it seems like um it seems

01:22:50

like you're you're fa robust cuz I'm

01:22:52

thinking of like like Todd Todd Muller

01:22:54

well publicized mental health issues um

01:22:56

G is Gan at the moment um I mean that

01:22:59

shoplifting that's got to be connected

01:23:01

to mental health in some way cuz it just

01:23:02

makes no sense um what about you fairly

01:23:05

robust yes I think I am a reasonbly

01:23:08

stoic kind of you know I think something

01:23:09

about the upbringing big family kind of

01:23:12

you know you get up every day it doesn't

01:23:14

really matter what's going on you do the

01:23:16

job I think whether I am anymore I think

01:23:18

I've got a bit sort of um fat and middle

01:23:21

class but you know I mean I used to PR

01:23:23

myself I live on a can of baked beans a

01:23:26

day you know I I you know when I went

01:23:28

through University had no money you I

01:23:31

wor a lot of jobs and sleep much you

01:23:33

know but then I still managed to do well

01:23:34

at University right so so I do I suppose

01:23:37

you're right I I have a perception of

01:23:38

myself as a tough robust guy who just

01:23:41

gets on and does the business and

01:23:42

doesn't worry too much about the

01:23:43

emotions and all that sort of stuff um I

01:23:46

think though that the slightly more

01:23:48

interesting answer is hey you know I can

01:23:51

remember on those plane trips you know

01:23:53

you just everything had gone wrong all

01:23:55

week you know you knew that half your

01:23:57

colleagues were trying to do you and you

01:24:00

know you hadn't handled X Y and Z every

01:24:02

well and you know you might be sitting

01:24:04

there um just quietly by S pretend

01:24:06

you're sleeping but wanting to cry you

01:24:08

know and um so I I think anyone in some

01:24:13

of the circumstances I found myself and

01:24:15

would be in the same sort of situation I

01:24:17

don't think um but or or or or Worse

01:24:20

frankly but um so I don't want to

01:24:22

pretend it was perfect and and I don't

01:24:24

want to pretend my response to some of

01:24:26

the stuff over the years has been

01:24:28

perfect but I think I do feel you know

01:24:30

again this the word we've use it but I

01:24:32

do feel grateful that um that I've never

01:24:37

you know there's been periods of

01:24:38

depression probably you know due to the

01:24:41

circumstance but I've never had major

01:24:44

mental health problems which we know you

01:24:46

know so many today um do and and and you

01:24:50

know it's so good that we talk about

01:24:53

that stuff more than than we we used to

01:24:55

are you quite good at talking about it

01:24:57

like uh with with with Natalie like do

01:24:59

you would you get home on a Friday

01:25:01

afternoon and she's like how's your week

01:25:02

and you're like uh don't ask I was never

01:25:04

good at it never I was terrible you know

01:25:07

I'm like you yeah I think so and I think

01:25:09

you other thing is you know hey because

01:25:11

I've got an introvert part of me that's

01:25:13

that's quite big right so and you're out

01:25:15

there as a politician you've just talked

01:25:17

to like a thousand people all freaking

01:25:20

week and you're just home be and Tong or

01:25:22

you know um on on Friday afternoon and

01:25:25

you just want to you don't want to say

01:25:27

another word right and you know you've

01:25:29

got someone who wants something from you

01:25:31

and it's just like how was it good you

01:25:33

know any issues no um pass me that

01:25:36

bottle you know um and so but but I tell

01:25:40

you what I've learned more recently and

01:25:41

and this is just something you know and

01:25:43

this doesn't come natural to me but I

01:25:45

think I've got a bit better I think

01:25:46

Natalie would I've got bit bit better

01:25:48

and I've just got this thing so we will

01:25:50

have uh you know come home from a from

01:25:53

from work on Wednesday nights you know

01:25:56

maybe we manag to somehow miraculously

01:25:58

get rid of the kids upstairs at some

01:25:59

point in time cup of tea I'll make sure

01:26:03

on that and this is nothing much right

01:26:04

but I'll make sure in that cup of tea

01:26:06

actually we're having a really good

01:26:07

meaningful conversation where I'm fully

01:26:10

present fully engaging she is we're both

01:26:13

you know asking and answering you know

01:26:16

questions in a in a in a in a full

01:26:18

genuine way and look most people say oh

01:26:21

you whack job is that all you can manage

01:26:23

but that's progress for me oh well cuz

01:26:26

I'm a man you know men are a certain way

01:26:28

and you and I are a similar age and it's

01:26:30

just not the New Zealand we were raised

01:26:31

in um and it's funny because like

01:26:34

vulnerability is a massive word now and

01:26:36

we're understanding that um the more you

01:26:38

can open up and talk about these things

01:26:40

um the better off you are from mental

01:26:41

perspective but like from a

01:26:43

parliamentary perspective it's

01:26:44

definitely not there yet like if if

01:26:46

you're just do and you you show a motion

01:26:48

at the mosque that's fine if you're John

01:26:50

Key show emotion at Pik River mine

01:26:52

that's fine but if if if if you stand up

01:26:54

there and say hey I'm not doing very

01:26:55

well like a lot of people have been mean

01:26:56

to me online I've had some death threats

01:26:58

and you get emotional um reflecting on

01:27:00

your own stuff that's going on people

01:27:01

are going to be like this guy's not fit

01:27:03

this that's right I and I think it just

01:27:06

there's a kiwi aspect to it all which

01:27:08

you know I'm not even necessarily saying

01:27:09

as entirely wrong but it's like oh

01:27:11

that's all a bit indulgent you know

01:27:13

they're all about themselves they're

01:27:14

talking about themselves and as a

01:27:16

politician you know call me old school

01:27:18

but it's kind of like you're there for

01:27:20

the people you're there for others you

01:27:21

know you're not there to be talking

01:27:22

about your own stuff right

01:27:24

you know um and and so so there is all

01:27:28

of that with with that isn't it um and

01:27:32

uh you know like I say heck of a job I'm

01:27:35

I'm glad to be out where I'm living a

01:27:37

much more um in quotes normal life you

01:27:42

know I if I um you know it's amazing how

01:27:46

quickly people don't abuse you on the

01:27:47

street anymore they know you're out you

01:27:50

know um uh you can go back to a level of

01:27:53

anonymous

01:27:54

anonimity you know the word I mean um

01:27:57

that and turn that

01:27:59

into

01:28:01

slushies slush an un but I should have

01:28:04

given you a slushy today you so should

01:28:06

have no it's not a stitch up here um

01:28:09

what about um crying do you are you much

01:28:11

for Cryer when when did you last cry I

01:28:12

think I do cry um more than people

01:28:14

because cuz in a way you're like I'm all

01:28:16

over the show here in this podcast and

01:28:17

you'll say what you just said you

01:28:18

weren't like in a

01:28:21

way you know maybe we all are in a way

01:28:24

I'm deeply emotional things can make me

01:28:26

quite I tell you what made me really

01:28:27

emotional recently and may me again s of

01:28:30

says what a whack job he's crying about

01:28:32

something external that he and a guy

01:28:34

doesn't even know but I'll tell you what

01:28:35

made me cry recently like really

01:28:37

recently as we recall this is Alex nalni

01:28:41

you know the opposition guy in Russia

01:28:45

and just you know cuz I sort of sit

01:28:46

there and think you know you're

01:28:47

opposition it was had it hard moments

01:28:50

and you know and you you felt on some

01:28:52

days that everyone hated you and you

01:28:54

know and that was just on your side and

01:28:56

you know all of that you sit there and

01:28:58

think about this guy and I suppose it

01:28:59

goes back to my childhood and I say that

01:29:01

reading I did and you know the politics

01:29:03

should be Noble and you know it matters

01:29:06

and so on there's a guy you know who

01:29:08

kind of like um a bit like you know if

01:29:12

you're religious Jesus in a way knew he

01:29:14

was going to die for what he was doing

01:29:16

right I mean this is not a smart game

01:29:18

plan he had taking on Putin every day

01:29:21

and out mocking the guy you know and

01:29:23

going at him sticking up for ordinary

01:29:25

Russian s he ended up and I can remember

01:29:27

thinking about it before he was he died

01:29:29

tragically you know but you know you

01:29:30

know the poisoning and then he ended up

01:29:32

in like the worst Eastern block prison

01:29:35

up in the back of where you know the the

01:29:37

treat you know the treatment would have

01:29:38

been ping and the guy was exactly the

01:29:40

same age as me 47 and you

01:29:44

know if you kind of put it at its he

01:29:47

died for his country I remember the

01:29:49

morning that happened I woke up and saw

01:29:51

look I don't know why it just triggered

01:29:53

something me and I cried a month or two

01:29:56

ago and uh so yeah I mean I think I'm

01:29:59

capable of you know a good movie will

01:30:01

make me cry still um uh you know um

01:30:06

maybe something around my kids you know

01:30:07

if it's not quite right or I feel like

01:30:09

you know it's so so I probably I think a

01:30:13

lot of go I probably do have a closet

01:30:15

cry at some level every week or to but

01:30:18

it's I I um I do love that I've had a

01:30:21

couple of our peers on the the podcast

01:30:23

Adam perori for New Zealand C and

01:30:25

Matthew Ridge and um yeah Reggie said he

01:30:28

cries all the time now like he'll be

01:30:29

driving in his car on his own just

01:30:31

reflecting on some things that he's like

01:30:33

happy about but I can see he is a you

01:30:35

know and and and like I see this me in a

01:30:37

different way he's even more so with

01:30:39

that sort of what is he a minion a

01:30:41

minion kind of disposition probably

01:30:43

right that sort of but but but he's you

01:30:45

know you can see that he is a passionate

01:30:46

emotional guy right I probably do a good

01:30:49

job of hiding that and becoming more

01:30:52

stoical I think law and politics kind of

01:30:54

teaches you that rational side of the

01:30:56

brain s but I think I think we've all

01:30:58

got a bit of that and I and I and I

01:30:59

definitely have and it comes out a bit

01:31:01

and probably now I'm more free and easy

01:31:03

it comes out more than it than it used

01:31:04

to yeah you got any

01:31:09

regrets I don't want to create I don't

01:31:11

want to create a headline here but but

01:31:13

you know we've talked about you know one

01:31:15

or two of them my political career where

01:31:17

you I've said the wrong thing and I

01:31:18

think um but

01:31:21

fundamentally um I always think it's a

01:31:23

bit chea people say I don't do regrets

01:31:25

but I kind of don't I I I do think

01:31:29

basically I got things right the right

01:31:32

times and the big stuff I think I've

01:31:34

learned over time you know I could be a

01:31:36

bit clinical you know I'm kind of like

01:31:38

well I'm I've got the outcomes right I'm

01:31:39

trying to do the right thing here for

01:31:40

New Zealand You Know da da um I think

01:31:44

I've learned more good leaders um I

01:31:46

still consider myself at a level of

01:31:48

leader you know on that front line but

01:31:50

you know good leaders do have an empathy

01:31:52

and an understanding of the people they

01:31:54

do have good EQ you know they do have

01:31:55

emotion and and and you probably I could

01:31:57

have brought a bit more of that to Bear

01:32:00

you know um I talked about the

01:32:01

interviews that's just an example of

01:32:03

this you I got every answer right but

01:32:06

maybe there was a need for a bit more

01:32:07

Humanity maybe that's true on the gay

01:32:09

marriage one you know for example some

01:32:11

of these things so we're all learning

01:32:13

aren't we and uh and hopefully like I

01:32:15

don't know if I'm getting better because

01:32:17

I probably am I'm probably picking up a

01:32:18

bunch of new bad habits but you know

01:32:20

we're all learning and changing if

01:32:22

you're the same guy you would were 20

01:32:24

years ago well you're [ __ ] with you know

01:32:26

actually we got to keep moving with and

01:32:29

evolving and and learning things and

01:32:31

being surprised by things um yeah yeah

01:32:34

it's funny at that isn't it we you you

01:32:36

have old friends and um you know they

01:32:39

may want to go out drinking you don't

01:32:40

want to go and they like you've changed

01:32:41

and it's like well yeah you haven't you

01:32:43

haven't changed who's the winner here

01:32:46

and um second second half of your life

01:32:48

what's that going to look like um I I

01:32:50

just wanted to be interesting

01:32:51

stimulating and I suppose the politician

01:32:53

in me there's still a bit of that I I do

01:32:56

you know I think people say what are

01:32:58

what are you you know why what is this

01:33:00

about are you about is it you like the

01:33:02

fame or do you is it you know you were

01:33:05

um Power hungry or it's got to be a bit

01:33:07

of ego doesn't it there's a bit of and

01:33:09

there's always every politician but I

01:33:11

think I think what I what I do want is

01:33:14

is is some significance by which I mean

01:33:16

you know I sense

01:33:17

that I am doing something that matters

01:33:20

for more than myself and will leave some

01:33:23

form of Legacy you know and and and and

01:33:26

you know um so so I think you know

01:33:30

interest um you know loved ones family

01:33:34

all of those things but but but I think

01:33:36

you know I still I still want want to to

01:33:39

you know I love New Zealand I still I

01:33:41

still do want to to to be significant in

01:33:44

this country and be contributing right

01:33:45

not in politics anymore but but but

01:33:48

another Fields whether that's business

01:33:49

or you know or or you know through this

01:33:52

nzta role so yeah I'm looking forward to

01:33:55

it you know all the super well not

01:33:57

superficial but all the good stuff you

01:33:58

and I both want you know I got to look

01:34:00

after my health so I get to 100 I'd like

01:34:03

to make a 100 some people want to um uh

01:34:05

I want to travel there's thousand places

01:34:08

I want to go um with my family and show

01:34:11

show my kids these amazing places so I

01:34:14

look I I uh the wrist was a wake up call

01:34:18

but I'm looking forward to the next 47

01:34:20

years how good and you're looking very

01:34:22

relaxed life is great is great hey

01:34:25

thanks so much for your time today I'm

01:34:27

so pleased we connected and made this

01:34:28

happen and um yeah anyone that's still

01:34:30

listening now 1 hour 34 into it I hope

01:34:33

they've um that you you are what they

01:34:35

thought you were or they've got like a

01:34:37

different perception of you for the

01:34:38

better hey well thank you having me D

01:34:39

look the checks in the mail because this

01:34:41

counseling session has been outstanding

01:34:45

it's been a hugely positive beneficial

01:34:47

therapeutic experience me but I serious

01:34:49

so thank you for what you're doing it's

01:34:51

it's a great podcast and you know I know

01:34:53

a people get a lot of lot of meaning

01:34:55

from it I appreciate that Simon Bridges

01:34:57

thank you cheers

01:34:59

[Music]

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This episode stands out for the following:

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Episode Highlights

Scooter Accident Reflection
A near-fatal scooter accident leads to a profound realization about life and gratitude.
“I feel really lucky... I'm glad I'm alive.”
@ 03m 43s
April 21, 2024
Acts of Kindness
A family helps after a scooter accident, showcasing the power of kindness.
“They were Absolute Angels.”
@ 06m 55s
April 21, 2024
Cultural Identity Struggles
He discusses his complex relationship with his Māori heritage and identity.
“I think my story is a very common one...”
@ 19m 55s
April 21, 2024
Finding Love in Unexpected Places
He recounts how he met his partner during his studies in the UK.
“I knew within like a fortnight we were going to be together...”
@ 32m 08s
April 21, 2024
The Weight of Experience
Reflecting on the darker side of legal work, he shares how it affected his outlook.
“...I was more cynical, dark, and I started thinking everyone was a criminal...”
@ 36m 51s
April 21, 2024
The Rush of Politics
Reflecting on the addictive nature of political life and the constant demand for attention.
“Your phone is always going... that becomes very addictive.”
@ 41m 47s
April 21, 2024
Media Scrutiny
The media relentlessly pursued me for two years, testing my resilience.
“The media was after me every single day for about 2 years.”
@ 55m 49s
April 21, 2024
Reflecting on Regrets
I acknowledge my past mistakes and the lessons learned from them.
“I think I was wrong.”
@ 01h 05m 11s
April 21, 2024
Navigating Public Life
Public life can be tough, affecting not just politicians but their families too.
“You end up being too insensitive to what people are saying.”
@ 01h 09m 34s
April 21, 2024
Winston Peters: A Singular Figure
Winston Peters has been a significant presence in New Zealand politics for decades.
“He's like the Forest Gump of New Zealand politics.”
@ 01h 15m 53s
April 21, 2024
The Emotional Toll of Politics
Discussing the mental health challenges faced by politicians and the importance of vulnerability.
“I think I do feel grateful that I've never had major mental health problems.”
@ 01h 24m 32s
April 21, 2024
On Regrets and Learning
Reflecting on past choices, the speaker admits to having some regrets but emphasizes the importance of learning from them. "I don't do regrets, but I kind of do."
“I don't do regrets, but I kind of do.”
@ 01h 31m 25s
April 21, 2024

Episode Quotes

They were Absolute Angels.
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!
...it’s a very vexed thing in New Zealand...
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!
It's better to have 10 guilty men go free than one innocent convicted.
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!
I don't look back with regrets.
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!
You end up being too insensitive to what people are saying.
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!
I think I do feel grateful that I've never had major mental health problems.
Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!

Key Moments

Gratitude04:33
Acts of Kindness06:55
Cynicism in Law35:53
Early Political Aspirations40:16
Acknowledgment of Mistakes1:05:11
Family Impact1:09:34
Legacy Matters1:33:20
Life is Great1:34:22

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