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[Music] Simon Bridges welcome why is so good to be with you I feel like um I feel very
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privileged I just can you like I listen to the Martin henerson one you did a little while ago and um you just started
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by gushing about him and how handsome he was and how there'd never been a bad
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photo so if you could just say a few of those things about me as well I'd love
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that I cannot lie you no no no but I am a fan of yours like I I I met you for the first time um
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I think this is when you were leader of the national party and um it was just happened to be in the bathroom at spark
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Arena the night of the music um a mutual friend of ours Morgan introduced us and
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um I thought he's he's a really nice guy Simon Bridges thank you um and it
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reminded me of a quote from Michelle Obama I'm probably going to [ __ ] this
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one up um but she said something like um people are always harder to dislike up close yes you dislike me you dislike me
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from it no no no I think that's right and and that's certainly true politician
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I mean we just talking about it off here you know it's quite polarized ing right
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you you because you have to put your view out there and you know in any given day if your view is X there'll be 50%
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who have a view of why right so so that's always going to be um challenging I think I remember those the VA Awards
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is that what they called or whatever VM I remember being with those they take particular courage because any
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kind of entertainment event if you're a center right politician you know like
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73% of them freaking hate you right and they going to come up to you and have you on and you know about your policy on
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this or that it's it's amazing how political kind of yeah the creative sectors are so um I I went in with
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trepidation and my my St proof this yes and my fears were um were not misplaced you get you know there's some who are
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like you who actually very friendly and take you as you are and there's some who
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just want to hate you that's not that's no lie I remember it well you're a brave man going to that
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hey um first of all how are you you've recently had a scooter accident oh well
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that has been um that hasn't been ideal so I'll show you I mean obviously the
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there's a big scar there on my left um wrist and yeah it was um it wasn't ideal
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basically what happened this was a daytime accident so you no alcohol involved or anything no which is a
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scarless accusation that many people have level leveled as if they know me or something no I was actually it was very
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Earnest I was going between meetings and in my defense you know like I'm 47 so you know re to be middle-aged kind
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of a guy but there's only three raised ways to get around our city in Oakland
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you walk and then you got hot and sweaty and you're late you Uber um or you scooter right so I I was scootering
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between meetings my cardinal sin was I um it was it was kyber pass Simon Street I had a bunch of papers in one hand so I
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was kind of trying to Freestyle with one with one one hand and the other with the
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papers and then I hit this dip which to be fair I've gone back and looked at it
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wasn't much of a dip and I flew man but God I feel um I feel really lucky like I
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I excuse me I F this this rest right like it was it was a jigsa puzzle by the end and the the surgeon and someone were
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pretty impressed by what I've done but actually I hit my face if you can see on
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its uh the side that that dark patch there is you know but I I feel deep fortunate that I didn't um get any form
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of brain um injury I was probably a bit concussed but um you know I can I still know I'm in a room with you and your
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name's Dom and you know but truthfully like a lot of people having scooter accidents and the surgeon was saying a
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lot of what I had but a lot of head stuff as well so like I kind of I don't want to say I feel like it happened for
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a reason but it it did literally and metaphorically shake me up and make me think oh I I'm glad I'm alive I'm not
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that I wasn't not glad but I'm glad I've got kids I'm glad I had a wife who still
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talks to me you know and some of these things you know I'm I'm fundamentally
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healthy you know I have some money in my pocket so I feel like yeah I don't want
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to be too but I feel like it's sort of happened for a reason and it's been it's
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been really good for me but my my wrist is still poked so every morning and evening I do these kind of uncomfortable
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exercises rehab yeah and did you um cuz you did an Instagram post from um hospital and you you mentioned the um
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the the family or the couple that um came to your Aid did you ever track them down no I mean they were lovely and I
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was like um cuz cuz when I hit the concrete I had a little sleep right and then I sort of woke up you just out cold
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like whether it was out cold or I was just like but I knew I couldn't get up
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and then I just sort of my eyes shut and I kind of and then when I sort of came to I mean I don't think I was out long
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um this wonderful Pacifica family I mean I think Samoan family were there and they were helping me they called the
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ambulance which never came by the way but anyway um so at the end I had to ring my wife and I was like you're going
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to be really angry with me you know have me telling me not to go on these scooters um but I was I was poach right
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like I I um and then I sort of I I wandered into the kind of the business building near us and I got blood all
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over there probably for what I lied down and I just couldn't get back but they
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waited with me I mean they're amazing just like um Angels or something right
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just here to help me I don't know what I would have done without them but I I
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tried to get at the time in my half kind of delirious St I was trying to get their phone number but they weren't
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having a bar of it they kind of but they stayed for the you know it was probably
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half an hour and that the older man was um old man his wife and his daughter and
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the old man was sort of had his arm around me and you know it makes me S emotional I hav thought about it
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actually much you know just how kind they were you know I suppose the question would we be that kind I like to think I
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would but um I'd probably be sitting there you know it's been 15 minutes I've
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got to go to a meeting you know um truthfully like I hate to say that but you know I feel like but they just had
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all the time in the world for it and um in the end my wife came she was angry and apoplectic and she did take me
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to the A&E at um at the city hospital so yeah they were they were Absolute Angels
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yeah that is fantastic hey that is cool cuz I I yeah I I was about to say I think most people would do exactly the
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same thing if you saw someone in but the reality is it's like yeah you'd be
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looking at your watch I would do it like you know I in my defense having said that I recall when we went for walk
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around not too far from actually with the scooter accident happened the domain uh one day and a guy had Elder elderly
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Indian man had sipped on the cobblestones or something and um kind of his face quite badly right and he was
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asking us where the hospital was right and we thought ah bug of this we've got
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to take him right so we got him in the car and um and and took him and took him into the A&E and so on and and looked
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after him and and you know I so so actually I know and the I've passed the tested level right when it's when it's
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happened um and you know in a busy will we I think we got to make sure we do pass that little life test yeah yeah
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100% well I'm glad you're okay are you scooter shy now were you go on scooters
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I know you I read an article a couple of years ago when you first oh no I was spending I was spending a
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lot of money a week on these scooters right you think I'm joking like a shitload of money um but like well
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because cuz like my office is up one end of Simon street I'm I'm constantly
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having to be down to commercial Bay to meet with corporates and all these sort of things and um it's like how do you
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get down there it's whatever it is 20 minutes walk it's like 6 minutes um
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scooter so I was using them a lot um the honest truth is yesterday which I haven't before but I was just my wrist
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is starting to get a bit bit I've got a bit of flexibility yesterday I walked
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past a beam cuz it was a beam sorry beam um not your fault my fault it was the it
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was the middle-aged theid on it not not the scooter but I saw her and I thought [ __ ] I'd be a lot quicker if I just got
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on this right now and then I saw an image of my wife and I was like no I'm not getting I promised her I won't do it
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again right more scared of nly than the scir oh I actually think that's true and
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the other thing is like you know and I'm not I'm ashamed to say this and I didn't
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say like the mainstream media were after me and at the time and I wouldn't do
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interviews CU I know I'd get pillared for this and rightly so but like I wasn't wearing a helmet and I'm not
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going to wear a helmet cuz you know you're all right with your short trim but you know I've got lengthy here at
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the moment I don't want to um I don't want to get helmet here so so look on
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the basis of that I'm not going back on one yeah oh fair enough what by the way
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what is since you bought it up what is happening with you here what is is this like a mid Cris no cuz I've about seven
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of those right so that's it's it's just messing with people right I just love
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the fact that it's basically a form of trolling I think it actually is because
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I basically uh you know so my you know I got some responsible jobs in my life and
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I love the fact that you know I I um you know tonight I've got the AGM of the
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ockland business chamber right I love the fact that like 47% that's a statistical true fact by the way 47% of
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those people as will be like what is he doing with us here right you know I love
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that I like I love that like half like let him be free to have us here you know and and then there's this other half of
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like and and maybe it's a maybe it's a throwback from politics where you needed
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people talking about you I I I kind of like that in my own like not out there in the real world but in my own little
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circles it definitely creates a controversy and I like that it's a talking point as well it's a talking I
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am getting a hicc out at the end of this month by the way it's just that um you
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you know where it cost a living crisis I go I go to an expensive hairdresser you
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don't want to do it too often yeah but the money you're saving on scooters at
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the moment though corre um hey congratulations by the way you've at the time we're recording this you've just
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got a new job chairperson of the NZ K yes um have you started this job or well funny you should say I mean all these
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people out there think this is some sort of fancy cure it's it's it's real hard
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work right so much of the weekend was taken up with going through the the papers for our first board meeting and
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um you know so it's I don't know that I would say it's going to be like
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massively enjoyable but it is an amazing challenge you know this is a this is an
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outfit that that I was going to say spends but a better word is invests like several billion bucks for you and me
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every year um controls State Highway Network it has a big influence on what local government does around the local
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roads and the potholes that we've been hearing about and all that stuff so you
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know that I'm a sucker for punishment I like to be busy and have something that's significant and so this is this
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is you know one big thing like that where you know hopefully and this I know this gets a bit Grand and probably makes
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me sound like a wanker but you know hopefully we we we you know I'll look back on that and be able to say yeah you
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know we over that three six year period whatever it is um you know we we did some amazing things you know we got on
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with some infrastructure that meant that you know people could get around Dom could you know get to his you know mat's
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Place quicker and safer and all of those things so yeah I'm very early but I'm I
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I'm you want to make a difference I'm looking I want to make a difference as
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cheesy as that sounds and that's always been there and that's that's something
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that that makes me you know drives me I'm not someone who and I fear and I I I
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admire people who can I I don't switch off easy I I I you know I need going on um otherwise I'd probably have
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to think about life and family I'm joking you know so I like to keep my busy my brain distracted and um and this
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is one heck of a distraction yeah I you you say you're kidding but I feel like
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that was um you reflected cuz I did breakfast radio for like 30 years and it was a very very busy job um and I I feel
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like on reflection I keept myself as busy as possible so I didn't have to face my own demons in a way yeah I think
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that I think that's just me no I think that's I do I do try I think hopefully
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all of that is true like if we're being really honest about I think uh I think
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hopefully though like I do try so you know we're recording this reasonbly early in the morning you know I've
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already up been up for a few hours and and I I do try to I'm a morning guy I do
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I do try to have a bit of a period of you know whether some people would call it meditation some people call it prayer
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some people call what but I TR try and have a period at the start of a day day hopefully my children haven't woken up
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um and you know where I can um be still and and maybe think and not not Grand thoughts but just you know maybe be
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grateful about what's um so hopefully I'm getting better at that with my long
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shaggy hair that's polarizing and my broken wrist in like 15 places and so on
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yeah the next step is going to be like beads like beads I would like a dud this been I would except you'd have something
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more to just completely take the but maybe I need them to cover that risk but but I totally would like I don't know we
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just my kids and I just been watching like um he's another polarizing figure
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in Britain like but Jeremy Clarkson you know the car dude and his you know after
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Top Gear he's got whatever his one is called and oh clar's F it's great oh
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claron Farm is amazing but he's got like 19 man beads going on it's like it's and
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I kind of works for an older guy so you know if you see me rocking the beads once in a while yeah hey um let's just
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go back to that morning morning routine so yeah we are recording this at 8:00 a.m. on a Tuesday morning and I I I
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fully respect that I know you're a busy guy so it's early for me but um I I love
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that but I wanted to ask you yeah more about your morning routine so do you you are you a cold shower guy or anything I
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I I would be but I'm probably not um I'm I'm probably not I was going to say
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manly but that's old fashion manly enough for that um I like the idea of those ice buckets like if I had ice
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baths I should say like I feel like cuz I get a bit of the Restless Leg in the night you know and so I'm taking the
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magnesium pills for that I feel like that should be a Mike hosking ad do 800 magnesia But but so but but I um you
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know I don't I don't if it was off here or on here but we know we were talking
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maybe off here about psychologist I've never been to psychologist and you know
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kudos to those who do and you know get help from but but I have a little bit over my I suppose life probably more
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more funly enough post parliament I needed it in Parliament but most parament head you know the odd business
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coach all kind of people and and a great one that you know I've done a bit with
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you know she talks about how we kind of really only have two or three intense hours of power right a day we think
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we're amazing for like 12 hours and we can do all of these things and so you
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don't and um and and for me I try and have that in the morning you know so hopefully that's not just doing what I
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do for the rest of the day which is replying to 109 email mes or you know it's it's something that's focused and
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um and and sort of and maybe you know this word means different maybe a bit spiritual you know so so there's that
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you know getting up sometimes it's I I want I don't want to sound like a hero
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like I I need my sleep and I think most people do but but I don't go to bed too
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late it might be five someday sometimes if I've got a lot on might be earlier
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sometimes spit later you know can be six um get up um I've got a comfy little
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kind of uh to call it a library would be you know way too Grand but like little book area with a nice comfy chair that's
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got all these felic fruit on it um that Natalie must have bought somewhere in a market or something and uh and and I'll
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sit in that I might read a bit um you know might think a bit I'll have a coffee um and then you know
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eventually one of the kids will wake up early and put on a television annoy me um or an iPad or something and then and
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there more of them and then they'll little turn up but so that's nothing too
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exciting but I think I think and I think routines are good aren't they like um oh
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the best yeah I think abely I and maybe for men even more than women but maybe all of us I think routines are and and I
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think while I'm on a role you know we live in a world where everyone's about
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multitasking I just think one simple thing you know like reading a uh you know a poem from somewhere or you know a
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book you're reading about something that's got no instrumental value to you
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that's really good for your soul I love that you are religious a so it's you're PR you're practicing of
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gratitude or whatever is is it sort of like a religious thing or I think so I mean I think you know um religion's got
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a dirty sort of name these days I think we live in such a material world physical world right um and and I think
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in New Zealand that's but you know for me look I am a practicing Christian you
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know I'm I'm Church attendance isn't amazing at the moment and but it doesn't
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matter for me I mean it's it's uh you know my father was a clergyman and so
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you know I think it's always sort of there right um and you know I know people some have had bad experiences
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that and and for some people it's you know it's something entirely different
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and I get that but I think what you in politics and actually my business life now what you learn is um we kiwis yeah
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we are particularly SE secular lot but you know we've got a lot of people whether it's from India or China or
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other parts of Asia they come in with a lot of spiritualism and I think I think we miss a bit of
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that in our society and and and like even this conversation right I'm conscious there'll be people listening
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right now [ __ ] that turn the the thing off right cuz cuz cuz even the word they're not sort of into but I think I
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think that's a I think that's a poor sort of sign actually Society I think
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for some people I say it might just be maybe you don't want the connotations
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maybe it's meditation maybe it's you know your yoga or whatever but I do
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think those things where it's you know gratitude a sense of some purpose higher
00:19:04
than yourself more than just yourself um I I think that is important but I just can I just put a disclaimer on this cuz
00:19:12
man some people are saying there this guy does he think he's you know M mandhi
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or something I am not right like I get [ __ ] wrong every single day in the most
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catastrophic ways right um so I just want to put that disclaimer on things oh no but we we all do that's part of The
00:19:30
Human Experience isn't it [ __ ] up time and time again totally yeah totally
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um let's talk about the is so so what I know about you is you were um head boy
00:19:39
at school yes um you you played the drums you're a drummer yes um what about
00:19:43
earlier than that any any sort of cultural links you you are the um the first moldi leader of a main political
00:19:49
party but I feel like you were sort of disattached from totally from your your moldi culture oh you know I think you
00:19:55
know way you were raised I think my story is a very common one right at some we all think we're special but you know
00:20:01
Mari dad you know white blonde mom off a dairy farm uh father's family you know
00:20:08
pretty dysfunctional mom's much more sort of you know functional um you know
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and and on the the ma side of things you know grew up in West ockland look we my
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father he grew up in Hamilton his mother you know was straight off of M but you know he learned very you know clearly in
00:20:29
fact from his mother you know you don't want anything to do with this mie stuff
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you're never going to get anywhere with that you know don't even you want to try
00:20:37
it in any way you can be a white malie you know if I could put it that way I mean I'm just you know I'm not saying
00:20:43
this right or probably wrong but how it was right so we grew up with no sense of
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it like I and and I think something that's quite fascinating for me today is um I've come to terms with all
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that I think I have a much greater sense my [ __ ] Papa and some of these things
00:21:00
but don't get me wrong you know tomorrow I'll have to do a Mii [ __ ] toe um you
00:21:05
know walking into nzta look that will be somewhat uncomfortable for me right because I don't speak to Roo and you
00:21:10
know it's not a natural position for me but I think I think something I've come
00:21:15
to term with but as leader of the national party I had to come to terms with is I'd always fundamentally just
00:21:20
sort I'm a um I'm a white guy right you know I'm a white guy um you know this is
00:21:27
you know guys over there that's they good guys you know my class you know um but that's
00:21:33
not me but I had come to terms with the fact that in truth a lot of people my skin is is not light um uh you know this
00:21:44
you know a bunch of things about me a lot of people perceive me as Mai right and so you know I am a mai um or I think
00:21:51
we started will Jackson would say you're you're a crap Mary exactly you're what
00:21:56
is a plastic TIY m m which you know so it's it's um it's taken me a long
00:22:02
time to and it was really only as leader of the national party that that there was that Spotlight like everyone's on
00:22:07
you're right cuz you're the alternative prime minister and it's and and just a
00:22:13
variety of used right to marry not mry enough yeah I think I think I seen some some racism in truth I think New
00:22:20
Zealand's um from all sides right it's a very it's a very it's still this is
00:22:26
still a we like to think we're all great but still a vexed thing in New Zealand I
00:22:30
think yeah there's there's a lot of judgment and I'm guessing um I don't
00:22:33
know I'm probably projecting here but did it come with some sort of like guilt
00:22:36
and shame like it was this is just the way you were raised but it's like you
00:22:40
feel like you should know more even though not your experience that you know and you've got the situation where as I
00:22:46
say you know a lot lot of indeed you in the me you know it's like H kind of almost like um too marry and then on the
00:22:54
other side of you know as say you're on a mud ey and you do a bit of that and
00:22:57
it's not your comfortable space because you've never been bought up with it and
00:23:02
you know as you say it's that sort of plastic malie or you you're your hes
00:23:06
you're not good at that you know but it's just like kind of and in the end
00:23:11
you know [ __ ] a papa is [ __ ] a papa it's there it's not to many a poo it's it's
00:23:16
quite but and the other thing that's complicated we're all at a level Mong RS
00:23:20
I mean Willie Jackson as I am right you know I mean there's you look at my father is mai Jewish um um you know a
00:23:28
bit of I don't know what it is some form of um British um my we do know cuz he
00:23:34
done this they did the spit test and it went off to Ireland it comes quite amazing what as you sort of see oh yeah
00:23:39
ancestry.com yeah it's quite amazing we've all got a bit of Viking in us
00:23:42
correct and then Mama's got a bit of Viking but fundamentally a bog standard
00:23:46
sort of um three veg uh um English you know so it's kind of that's New Zealand
00:23:54
isn't it I think so yeah yeah what are you well like yeah like I did the ancestry thing I can't remember there's
00:24:02
a bit of Irish in there a bit of like 5% Viking we're all muts I could see you
00:24:07
like in Vikings like or something or running it no no because you're trimming
00:24:11
muscular I could see you with your shirt off and some ancient tattoos and some some ax or something and they'd be
00:24:18
saying helmets attack speaking of that I'll throw that back on you because um some
00:24:25
somewhere somehow there is actually footage of you like running around shirtless like a viking you were on
00:24:31
umena or young H like cuz basically how did how did you end up there was the um the uh I just needed the money Ryan
00:24:38
goling Show uh well no cuz what happened was CU B before Ryan I was um cuz you know I'm I'm sadly a bit old but um I
00:24:48
you grew up West Oakland they were doing it it was back in the Heyday of yeah um
00:24:52
Hercules the young Hercules was it and Xena Warrior Princess and they were filming those out deep West Kum wherever
00:24:58
it was and I lived out there I needed money right I mean it it's just like we
00:25:04
didn't we never had any money right I just think my kids need to like learn a
00:25:08
bit of this you know and get the experience of it so I I freaking needed money and I was working then these were
00:25:14
in the terrible Old National Day party days of you know interest on student loans no allowance CU my father in like
00:25:22
46 Grand not 45 Grand and so you know I was I was working bars Food Town anyone who's old enough will remember Food Town
00:25:31
which is now whatever it is um and and then and then I got myself on some list as an extra and what would basically
00:25:38
happen is you'd Rock and it was you know it was maybe it's where the early
00:25:41
morning it was like 4:00 a.m. or something you you had to get yourself out to Rose Bank Road West ockland
00:25:47
they'd put you on a van and there'd be a bunch of young punks and I always got
00:25:51
casters cuz I've got great crossover appeal of course you know I've got Cliff
00:25:54
Curtis I was always cast as like an Asian Warrior or a you know a Polynesian you know um background scene or
00:26:02
something and back in those days me wrong it's never been amazing but I I could at some level take off my shirt
00:26:09
you know we wouldn't be trying that these days so you I remember running through the field with bombs going off
00:26:14
and horses I I can't remember if that was I think that was Zena um and then and then the other one I remember was
00:26:21
her young Hercules we uh uh we were doing sort of Staff fighting and like a colise or something around the main
00:26:30
characters who were doing whatever they were doing Kevin Zabo Kevin Zabo oh yeah
00:26:35
yeah yeah he was Hercules I feel like I might be making up for Kevin Zabo but but but there were dudes but but it was
00:26:41
that it was that sort of error um and did I do any others I might have done a little bit more but and they paid well
00:26:49
and the other thing I love was they have a big freaking table with food and oh the catering track Perk coffee and stuff
00:26:55
which I don't think back in sort of 1997 we'd ever seen before in West Oakland
00:26:59
was amazing yeah and so have you have have your parents or have you got it on a a
00:27:05
VHS or any no I think junos have tried to find it so for all you know this could be complete lies um but it is true
00:27:14
I mean it's not a it's not a good enough story for me to make it up right you
00:27:17
know it's not like me sort of dating El mcferson or something back in 96 or something so no it is true but I I don't
00:27:25
know that there is well there will be footage by definition but you'd have to
00:27:30
watch like a thousand series of Zena um to find a frame in the background correct which is still playing in
00:27:36
Germany I think on I think there's a Zena Channel or something and then so why why law school what What attracted
00:27:42
you to law uh honest answer so I had an older brother who was a lawyer Timothy and uh you know and he'd sort of and and
00:27:52
he'd done well cuz he got into Russ McVey which uh you know was the the big firm
00:27:58
at that time and my father was you know deeply conflicted guy he he wasn't sure
00:28:04
whether he was about gold or money and he was really into the idea of us being successful I think cuz he came from
00:28:10
nothing and he was sitting there as a poor clergyman earning about $9 a year you know with six kids and and so he was
00:28:19
very ambitious for us he sought my older brother Timothy doing well in law he had
00:28:23
a fancy job and I think by that stage he was in the ukuk at a big firm and so he
00:28:29
just really wanted me to be a lawyer and he fundamentally pressured SL bullied me
00:28:32
into doing law I'm glad I did I think if I hadn't I would have um I definely
00:28:37
would have gone to University I mean he pretty academic uh and I would have I would have done politics I did do a b
00:28:43
Politics as well as my law degrees but I would have I I probably would have kept
00:28:47
going and done a PhD in Marxism or something and be a leftwing sort of lectur at at Ackland University or aut
00:28:54
or something these days right so the law was good cuz it's a it's a real vocation
00:28:59
I was good at it you know I got B at time and um uh so I'm GL so I'm actually
00:29:05
glad my dad bullied me in quotes into into law and it did suit my disposition right I at school I was a nerd who was
00:29:13
into debating and you know argument and and and I was always into politics you know which was not a family thing that
00:29:20
was just a weird Simon ISM that was that was sort of there you know um and and so
00:29:25
law suited that in a way and no really I enjoyed you I was practiced for eight years seven eight years I really enjoyed
00:29:31
that yeah it was yeah very Su so you went to the UK to do some exra study is that is that where you met Natalie I met
00:29:37
Natalie and you know I always tell the stories it's a bit sort of hecky but it's you know it's a it's a goody you
00:29:43
know we were she was young you know a pomy girl actually Welsh polish but in in from the Midlands and she was there
00:29:50
at our College you know these things are like in Harry Potter star colleges you know and they they they they've got the
00:29:55
big quad in the middle and and there was a there was a cubby whole sort of city areas and and we walked in and we kind
00:30:00
of brushed past each other and it was all very kind of and we were in the same we were in the middle common room which
00:30:06
is like we we if you're doing a masters right we both she was doing a master in
00:30:10
English literature and I was doing a masters in in in law and um you know true story she sort of said you know we
00:30:17
then went out for Singapore noodles or something a week or two after that but she then said so she went home and rang
00:30:21
her mom and said you know you won't believe it I've met the man in My Dreams
00:30:25
by the way I was thinner and younger back then okay she said he's this really
00:30:29
handsome Japanese guy so did did you feel the same way like was it an instance of Attraction yeah I think it
00:30:35
was because I think um and the other thing was in our middle common room like they were quite boozy you you sort of
00:30:41
like Friday nights mean people it's it's a caricature up you literally get
00:30:45
dressed up in um I think they call it a sub fusk but you know it's it's a tux
00:30:50
right you have to wear a tux to these things and it's really subsidized by the
00:30:54
college you slept down like5 and it's kind of all you can eat and drink all night right and its courses and you're
00:31:00
finishing with FL fruit platters and sherries and it's outstanding right and
00:31:04
by the end you you're trolleyed and you wake up on Saturday morning hang over um
00:31:08
and you're at long tables and all this so so we're there at this group and she
00:31:11
and I were the only if you want to put it this way kind of English is a first language kind of anglos right or sort of
00:31:17
sort of you know because everyone else was from Italy and Greece and Brazil and you know Russia and it was a real United
00:31:25
na so so I think we were kind of forced get either cuz we were the only two like
00:31:30
like I can remember one of the Greek guys you know great guy like he's probably a high court judge or something
00:31:35
in Greece right now doing incredibly like he's a genius very Urbane and sophisticated but you know after a few
00:31:43
drinks I I remember once I made a joke about his mother right like I don't know
00:31:47
his mother right it was just a joke and like everything changed right and I thought uh oh I'm about to die here like
00:31:53
in all the all the kind of people from that culture you know where is n and I were the only ones who are not from that
00:31:59
kind of kind of world so we so we were kind of yeah forced together peace and a pie we started going out and yeah I knew
00:32:06
with I mean it's chy it sounds I knew within like a fortnite we were we were
00:32:11
going to be together I just felt like that was the thing but it was pressured because I had a year of this master's
00:32:16
degree and then I was coming back to UK uh New Zealand I should say because I was bonded to my Law Firm they'd given
00:32:22
me a shitload of money to um to help with this incredibly expensive um year out in UK on a high pound at that
00:32:31
um point in time so I had to go back so I was kind of like well you know you're
00:32:37
either coming with me love or you're not but we got to make a decision really
00:32:41
soon because if you're not you know I you know there's no point wasting another nine months on this so I was
00:32:46
pretty hardcore and um but so we got serious very quickly yeah is the out of necessity yeah I don't know I suppose
00:32:54
and uh and then she was back at Mount mongui where I was a young criminal lawyer um and uh you know it was um were
00:33:04
they were good years yes yes so you um you were a crown prosecutor in toong for a while were you um were you ever a
00:33:11
defense lawyer uh I did a couple of Defense cases a young commercial lawyer in ockland you know we effectively Rich
00:33:18
Daddy had a son in trouble I mean I don't know what the freak I was doing back then that was before I'd been a
00:33:23
prosecut but I can remember one guy had done like a 160 K up par rise young punk
00:33:29
whose dad was really wealthy I did the what they call a plan mitigation for him at the sentencing I remember s of
00:33:34
mumbling something about him being a good kid from a good family won't do it
00:33:37
again I think he got a massive fine or something I can remember out EBA you know excess breath alcohol so I think I
00:33:43
did a couple of things of Defense but fundamentally all my law career um was Crown prosecution work so that's the you
00:33:53
know the police do the more the less serious stuff and the crown prosecutors come
00:33:58
um for anything that's that can go to jury trial so I was a jury trial lawyer
00:34:03
effectively for like 6 and a half seven years and I work really hard but was very satisfying um very satisfying work
00:34:12
you know serious stuff the real you know rape murder um serious fraud a lot of drugs not me personally this trials you
00:34:20
understand um yeah um yeah did you end up with any sort of like PTSD or anything you must see some things like
00:34:28
I'm thinking of um you know the the photo photograph evidence books that you're privy to and the judge the jury
00:34:36
like I can remember I mean I won't describe them because it's it's it's but
00:34:38
but I can remember some really heinous stuff and I think you know I feel bad now looking B I probably would have
00:34:42
handed it more but but it's a really young guy and probably not allowed to do
00:34:46
this but I would show them to Natalie been practice my my openings and closings and cross examinations on her
00:34:51
right it you know a theme of the theme of the podcast at 4:00 a.m. or something before I did it at sort of 10:00 a.m.
00:34:57
that day and um like in a funny sort of way more Trauma from law than politics you know as much as politics has got its
00:35:08
um and don't wrong there's a bit of Trauma from politics too but like I think what happened at the end of that
00:35:14
CU I was a young guy the end of my legal career I remember when I got out because
00:35:18
I'd become the candidate for tongo and I was going to try and go to Parliament
00:35:22
and take that leap of faith really like was a weight off my shoulders right right because I was doing jury trials I
00:35:30
was like a Workhorse for this Law Firm I was in I was doing every I was every day
00:35:34
I was in a jury trial right and the next one sat the next down I'd be preparing
00:35:38
all night and and but I wanted that cuz I wanted to get the experience right and
00:35:42
um you know many many jwy trials um what happens is you become very cynical very dark if you're not careful
00:35:52
and you start thinking everyone's a freaking criminal so you go to the supermarket and you see some guy picking
00:35:57
up some some big bottles of water or something like oh he's about to do a big
00:36:01
cook of methamphetamine you know that's that's or you know or you see some you
00:36:06
become very um you see the worst in people you absolutely see the worst in people cuz I I became um my specialty if
00:36:15
you like my last sort of say three or four years were were and and and again I you know treat sensitively I know for
00:36:23
some people it's even talking about it at General levels disturbing see sure
00:36:27
cases right and you know there's big problems in society and and uh and just
00:36:34
saying seeing those things around young people and so on you have to cope in some way and I
00:36:40
was probably a bit young and a bit kind and I was ambitious and I wanted to and but it I didn't realize at the time it
00:36:48
was affecting me but when I stopped and the weight came off my shoulders I realized how much actually I was in a
00:36:53
not I want to say a dark place that's too dramatic but but it it would definitely I was more cynical dark and
00:37:00
and I start everyone I met was like i' be looking at you saying oh yeah that
00:37:05
guy he's you know that's that's what you become if you're not careful and and how
00:37:10
do you do a job like that not take your work home like say say you're dealing
00:37:13
with someone and uh they they get found not guilty and you know they're guilty
00:37:18
yeah um then how do you like how do you deal with the um complain well I didn't
00:37:22
you know I I did take it home I think that was that was a problem and uh you know and that that's always been you
00:37:29
know an issue for me I probably wear these things too passionately and and on my sleeve so you know that was a real um
00:37:37
and and and what it meant as well in in in in the criminal law if you're a prosecutor it's different if you defense
00:37:42
you ever an obligation to try and get your guy or girl off um and and you know Force the crown to really prove it
00:37:49
properly but if you're a crown prosecutor you're meant to be what they call a minister of justice and quite
00:37:55
dispassionate you know you're not be meant to be overly zealous and trying to
00:37:58
get the prosecution you know it's the old thing you know it's better to have
00:38:01
sort of um um 10 guilty men go free than one innocent convicted was there was like a a quote from the um the famous
00:38:08
Greek king yeah that's right and so so so that's the that's the thinking so but
00:38:12
I would go pretty hard right I got myself in trouble um a time or two in the court of appeal right for being
00:38:18
overly zealous for pushing too hard um but you know that was my way you know I I I and I and I probably did if I'm Fair
00:38:27
did St thing oh they're all guilty you know which is a bit of a trick right then they're not all um I think what's
00:38:33
true in our system is they tend to all be factually guilty of something if you know what I mean like but but but but
00:38:42
actually the Crown's obligation is to prove that charge on that day in relation to that person and just cuz
00:38:48
someone's a bad guy doesn't mean they um they have committed that crime Beyond
00:38:53
Reasonable Doubt so yeah it is um look I think now I'm finally in a place where
00:38:59
I'm I still like to be busy but I you know I'm finally a place where I'm not
00:39:04
working weekends I'm enjoying it as a generalization I did this last weekend
00:39:08
because i' I've got my first board meeting this week but but as a generalization got smelling the flowers
00:39:14
much more balanced now that wouldn't be balanced I think in probably a normal
00:39:17
per person's world but in my world it's more balanced that it's been in a very
00:39:21
long time so did you always have those um political aspirations was that always was that always a plan for a young Simon
00:39:26
were you're like I'm going to do law for a few years then uh yeah it was I think
00:39:30
it was I mean you know weirdo as that makes me I think well I sort of explain some people look some people are deeply
00:39:36
you know you take it um not that I'm remotely comparing myself to say but you
00:39:40
know you take a Peter Burling he's into yings you know you you you what have got
00:39:44
behind the mic and went people have the different I I was attracted I was a reader you know I mean I had you know
00:39:52
brothers who were more sporty than me I you know preps into other things but but
00:39:56
I'm quite young um actually my auntie who lived in America she she had a bought us a kids series of books on US
00:40:03
presidents I mean it it was slightly better than it sounds and they and I would and I would read those and I don't
00:40:09
know it's just like a spark there right I was like this is this is this is about
00:40:13
the world and what makes it Go Round And I could see that politics really mattered so I was a real Anor I got into
00:40:20
it very young as I say very very um young I joined the National party there was no history of that in my my um my
00:40:29
family I tell the story like I don't even know if it's true anymore but I've
00:40:33
told it so many times it kind of must be that it was Food Town actually chat to North I saw these guys putting up a sign
00:40:39
I think for the 92 93 is it 93 election um or pre sort of stuff there I saw them
00:40:44
doing that and i' and I'd been thinking about thought yeah I want to be part of
00:40:47
the national party right um and so I sort of went up to them and then suck of a punish by end up delivering all of the
00:40:53
the guys leaflets probably for the next you were young like 16 you know and uh um and so no I did
00:41:03
get into it but I think it was that debating it was that ideas the same things I liked about law um you know
00:41:11
Prosecuting a case if you like and um uh so yeah it's it's and I got no regrets
00:41:19
you know it's a brutal life and I I would not remotely lightly go back to it
00:41:23
but but what politics always is is very interesting you know there's never a
00:41:28
dull moment and I do what I do miss today is I do miss there's a lot I love about not being in it um but but but but
00:41:35
the adrenaline is addict the rush of it the rush I mean if you are always you know if I was there in government right
00:41:42
now you you're always in demand you know and that becomes very addictive your
00:41:47
phone is always going whereas now I might have one text message waiting if that you know I know if I was still a
00:41:55
senior politician I'd have like 200 you know they are just always and that's
00:42:00
becomes that's that's that's every bit not that I've ever taken methamphetamine
00:42:04
but that's every bit like a like an illicit drug I I imagine you know yeah is that what someone like Winston Peters
00:42:11
who's old now but he's still still vital and still vibrant still doing it um do
00:42:15
you think that's that he's just had like a lifetime of this High cortisol level
00:42:19
this sort of rush of being important or being busy or being there's something in
00:42:23
that and and I wouldn't dismiss that I'm not so I don't kind of make wouldn't
00:42:27
make that entirely negative right you know like because it is about A Life That's but but and I think a guy like
00:42:32
him you know um I I think what's also true is for all the stories about Winston we won't get
00:42:40
into them because I'll get myself in trouble politicize this but but but I think for all the what is also true is
00:42:47
this is a guy who I think has a very good diet um you know does he yeah actually um Andes he Lover he still
00:42:54
smokes the cies doesn't he um no comment um but but but but you know but look
00:42:59
look you know the fish and the salads and so on so I think you know I wouldn't
00:43:04
overplay it um uh you know in comparison what what let me just I'm trying to be
00:43:10
diplomatic here but let me say this if we look at the US presidential race where you got a couple of older
00:43:17
gentlemen one of whom you know the stories are has got as you know um accurity issues I'm pointing in my head
00:43:24
oh Biden B yeah Winston's not actually in there that category you know this is
00:43:28
a guy who's still very much um with it and and at the you know near the top of
00:43:33
his game yeah well um there's a comedian I really like and he made a joke about
00:43:38
Biden he said Biden could be the first president we have that could be assassinated by a punch to the
00:43:42
[Laughter] gut but they're about the same age right Biden and Trump they age and Trump seems
00:43:49
so much more vibrant and so much more lively correct I mean you've got to hand
00:43:55
it whatever you think about Trump I don't know be people have a lot of thoughts about him and you know on a bad
00:43:59
day scares me too um you know and his positions on sort of Russia and and some of these things but um you're right I
00:44:08
think he's 78 I mean good grief he's he's actually for guy who supposedly
00:44:14
eats a lot of McDonald's and and Coca-Cola but I don't think drinks um maybe he does I don't know um you know
00:44:21
he's pretty vibrant you're right the way he gets up and gives those speeches and
00:44:25
you know um and he must looks like a I would be fascinated to me cuz he looks like a big guy a giant yeah yeah um okay
00:44:33
so you get so you get into politics um you you get into the national party and then uh there's this weekly TV interview
00:44:40
thing with you and just you're like you called the Young Guns or whatever so
00:44:43
you're just um you're young attractive um just sort of I suppose bringing a bit
00:44:49
of vibrancy into a a fairly D sort of environment um yeah what are your Recollections of that time oh definitely
00:44:55
I I had two lucky breaks um if you want I mean you make your own lucky level and
00:45:00
you know but but a couple of things that went very well for me early on in my career um the first was beating Winston
00:45:07
actually even just talked about him in Tonga and that was you know that was a time of that was a phase thing he he was
00:45:13
caught up in a bunch of issues and I was able to just as a young guy Glide past and Tong was ready for change but we
00:45:19
were in a good campaign and you know one one one well that that was great because
00:45:23
there was huge Spotlight on that campaign and that election uh on the television and so on and then the other
00:45:29
one was getting Young Guns I think John ke put me forward for that and and remember you know it's so different than
00:45:35
today and not to be entirely mean about our TV we were talking about it off here
00:45:39
you know we as we talk about this you know um uh news hubs about to be gone tvnz's got its very real issues um this
00:45:49
was still the Heyday just it was Paul Henry you know at its absolute height everyone
00:45:57
like everyone watched this show right it was unbelievable you know like it it's
00:46:01
like now if you were on say tvnz breakfast you know a lot of people wouldn't even necessarily kind of know
00:46:07
or so fragmented but but everyone was watching this thing and so the had yeah I think you're right um de I say you
00:46:14
know can people can make their judg who was more attractive but probably not me but but you know you had me and jinda
00:46:19
and um every week and we and we took it seriously man like we would she would Sledge me before we went on a you know
00:46:26
and we got we got on very well right we had a lot of fun and and and and Paul Henry
00:46:32
B the breast out of us you know he's a very clever um you know fun interview
00:46:38
Who Loved politics he himself was a National Party candidate um you know back in the the The Ether so it was
00:46:46
Heyday stuff it really made me and and it got me good like it's you know it's
00:46:50
the old th000 hours or whatever I mean some people say you're never good mate
00:46:54
but like everywhere Prime Time difficult topics had to be on brief I knew if I got a word or two
00:47:02
wrong John K ring me and tell me off you know not a you said did that but you know what I mean like it it was it was
00:47:09
we were conveying the and I wasn't there for myself you know I was obviously
00:47:12
trying to build my own brand but but I was also there for the national party which was in government to kind of make
00:47:19
sure we were we were dominating the labor party and we were putting forward the the the best positions for us in us
00:47:25
so it was that was like big thing but it but because it went well if it gone badly it would have been differently but
00:47:31
because it went well um you know I I was very fortunate like I I I became a minister quickly I then became a cabinet
00:47:39
minister and you know me wrong I work my ring off but um you know I I I scaled to the top uh
00:47:48
or close to the top you know by the end of that time in government I think it was number four or five in government so
00:47:54
you know that was a um and and I remember when I when I was going to go in I thought [ __ ] if I if I just become
00:48:00
a sleep committee chair which is lower down the scale you know that would be that' be pretty cool you know me of
00:48:05
parliament s in the end I did much better than that so you didn't have like I I of imagine you being like a head boy
00:48:11
at school having aspirations to one day being prime minister um look look I think you get that after a time right
00:48:18
but I think um you know I suppose I'm a funny mix aren't we all you know of of
00:48:22
of confident and not confident you know and I think that's a have moments yeah
00:48:28
some of thaty thing as well you know it's you know bit bashful or you know careful you're supposed to be humble
00:48:35
aren't you yeah I know that wouldn't be a lot of people's perception of me
00:48:38
necessarily but you know so you so you but but no I feel very um grateful at the career trajectory in
00:48:46
those those early years lucky breaks some hard work as well and um you know it went very it went very well yeah
00:48:54
that's interesting um um interesting little insight before that line about John Key had watch you on TV and then
00:49:01
call you up or whatever because he's a very very successful leader and and you
00:49:05
were you were part of his cabinet at a um you a phenomenal time this party in particular um but yeah did he te your
00:49:13
new one from time to time or not not not often but but I think I think the thing
00:49:18
with John is he didn't need to you knew if he was not oh yeah totally you know
00:49:23
look this a guy who's you know Trader very successful guy hugely likable guy
00:49:29
I've haven't seen a lot of him lately but actually I saw him last week and you
00:49:32
know you just can't help half an hour with John you just love the guy right whatever you thought five minutes before
00:49:38
you s of um he's a very personable people person he is what what you what you see but you knew when he wasn't
00:49:45
happy that didn't happen often but I can remember one or two times um you know where perhaps I'd got
00:49:52
something not quite right um and uh and you knew was it um you knew because in the
00:50:01
eyes I think it was in the eyes so he didn't it's it's not what he said but
00:50:05
what he didn't say yeah I think it's in the eyes and just the tone you know cuz
00:50:10
that wasn't normal EAS Oz happy go-lucky John right of course he was much more
00:50:14
than that I'm I don't say that dismissively but but but he gave that demeanor so when that wasn't the
00:50:20
demeanor you knew so yeah you knew you [ __ ] up correct there was even um so so you when you were doing this young
00:50:27
gun stuff so you you were Merit to Nataly um I think this J was probably single at the time this is pre clar but
00:50:32
there's even rumors that you guys um yeah I supposed this is your onscreen chemistry but there were rumors that you
00:50:37
guys were each other Paul Henry would sort of spoke that you know say oh the chemistry is electric and all these
00:50:42
things you know but we look we got on very well there's a lot I like about jender you
00:50:48
know obviously U I disagree with a lot that she would believe and and and you know um some of the way she handled you
00:50:58
know the the the the the last three or four years of her her prime prime ministership um but you know as a person
00:51:06
um like your I admire the way she um uh you know actually carried things very lightly in a way I probably didn't
00:51:16
or don't you know I you know if I've got an issue I'll stress about it and work
00:51:21
too hard on thing about I think she she um she you know came with things at face
00:51:26
value quite lightly and and so in some regards while you know people have and you know I think in my view rightly so
00:51:32
will point to some weaknesses in her leadership star some big strengths and you we got them very well we didn't have
00:51:38
a laugh and and you know we were kind of this sort of in quote celebrity couple at the time will bit you know not in any
00:51:44
not in any real sense I stress yeah that's did you ever sort of um I mean it was a crazy turn of events
00:51:52
that saw her uh quickly rise and then become Prime Minister and a very successful prime minister for a time at
00:51:57
that did you ever foresee that I must admit others did uh I didn't maybe it's
00:52:03
the old familiarity breeds not contempt but a kind of a complacency and I and I felt she was too um what I've just said
00:52:11
relaxed if you like um uh you know for that kind of grinding Prime ministerial role that you've seen from from a Helen
00:52:21
Clark or a John keyword it's it's every aspect of your life because in what
00:52:25
level it has to be um so she was she she was a very different style of politician
00:52:32
and and prime minister I I I think and and of course you know um what first ever I think you know young mom as as
00:52:39
prime minister which is a is a remarkable um a remarkable thing yeah um do you want to talk about I've got a
00:52:47
list here of some of the some of the L like greater and greater shits um so there were there was some I was just
00:52:57
Googling you the other day doing some research and um I mean how many items are there there must be like 10 trillion
00:53:02
items there's there's there's a lot so there's um some secret tapes where
00:53:05
there's a lady called Morin pure and you were caught on tape calling her [ __ ]
00:53:09
useless yes um I I don't know the backstory about that but I I mainly want to know like what happens afterwards
00:53:14
like first of all it's a it's a secret tape so that's the ship ship play ship
00:53:18
form um when that comes out like do you have to phone morine and groble something like that I mean I think um
00:53:25
you know there so many many things I think it's awful like we we've all at
00:53:31
one level you can say you know well we've all said ridiculous things but we're not all getting secretly taped
00:53:36
right that's explaining way I think what's true though was you know all of
00:53:40
that said You know here was me on a colleague um saying things I shouldn't have and I deeply regret that um I I
00:53:50
think you know if you take that period you know what was amazing to me and I'm
00:53:53
I'm going to be a bit self- serving here but hey you know it's my version of
00:53:55
History so I'm going um we I would probably that's like one of the very exceptional ones that I do
00:54:06
regret fundamentally in what was a top curvy very controversial time when the national party was eating itself and
00:54:15
going through deep upheaval I don't look back with really much regret at all I
00:54:20
feel like at the time with the facts I had I acted with integrity and well and not everyone seen that from the outside
00:54:27
cuz it looks like a but but I I believe I exhibited um I'm going to say this was
00:54:32
not modest in New Zealand terms but if I was an American I'd say it Donald Trump
00:54:36
would suly I I I believe I exhibited great leadership through that period right and I kept the and actually we
00:54:42
kept momentum and I kept the National Party in the mid-40s through that period which you know is is a is a remarkable
00:54:48
feed and that was I say I it was team but you know we had policy momentum we were doing a lot of work behind the
00:54:53
scenes that that at a level set up what what has you know a government a government now with with policy and work
00:55:00
so you know I'm philosophical I kind of say you know I think it was you know and
00:55:06
he's not a politician you'd hear quoted very often but I think it was Richard ni
00:55:08
Nixon at his impeachment or when he had resigned from being president after world but you know you kind of don't
00:55:15
know the um highs if you haven't had the lows you know if you haven't had the
00:55:20
valleys the highs aren't as high so I don't look back with regrets I I kind of
00:55:25
embrace all of what happened it was a roller coaster um and and I don't think
00:55:32
you know if I think about my conduct be one thing if I thought you know you you got a bunch of things wrong but I think
00:55:36
if people now look back a bit more sort of soberly objectively you know we I say
00:55:43
we the likes of myself and Paula Bennett and my leadership team I think we handled things well fundamentally what's
00:55:49
remarkable and the media was after me every single day for about 2 years as I held on as long as I did actually and
00:55:57
really it was in the end Co that that that that sort of got me not the not the not the 15 scandals with the well the SC
00:56:06
the scandals are all fairly minor on the big scheme of things aren't they um so um Winston Peters you had an
00:56:12
interesting relationship with him there's there's some clips online that I
00:56:14
found where um like he he he mocks you for your your kiwi ex totally um and how you say China he's like I don't know I
00:56:22
don't I don't know where this place CH is um which like Schoo yard bullying
00:56:27
really isn't it yeah I mean I think uh you know is that water for duck speec too is that embarrassing at the
00:56:34
time are you humiliated look look when I reflect on it's a bit like at the time
00:56:37
not it's not embarrassing but I think you know think B think look I I did think the the overall it wasn't so much
00:56:43
Winston actually um but but you know some of the media aspect on that I think was um was a bit classist and possibly
00:56:52
racist I'm to say that you know I do think they would have treated others differently um and and you know the
00:57:00
media is a pack right and they go through phases and you know if they're not you know the labor party will have a
00:57:06
bit of this going on the green party right now where where the media's recalibrating they've got a new
00:57:11
government they'll be pretty hard on them right and that was the phase they were in a national so that's sort of
00:57:16
sort of that so you know I'd be lying I've said those don't things don't
00:57:20
affect you in the end they do and they were hard days hard to get up right but you know did and we kept um we we kept
00:57:29
moving but oh look now I'm philosophical but yeah at the time some some of the
00:57:35
stuff was hard yeah like there was a slushy thing as well like we um so I think the the labor party under
00:57:43
justun uh was it Kelvin Davis the corrections Minister he bought um like 100 Slushy machines for prison guards to
00:57:50
have in the office and for some reason like um yeah you you saying it was a waste of taxpayers it became like a big
00:57:57
meme thing yeah it did is it because of the way you say SL the I suppose the lesson there is there's a difference
00:58:03
between what works in Parliament and what works in social media right Parliament has lost a lot of its Verve
00:58:09
right it used to be a rough tough rambunctious place and I like that um but it's not well suited for the clip
00:58:16
things up you know where things can be taken out of out of context what had happened there was we we had the
00:58:21
government on the ropes actually and uh and I did a 5 minute spe speech you get sort of time limits and and then I moved
00:58:29
to get another 5 minutes I got another 5 minutes which was unexpected and you know I'm I'm yelling slushies now In the
00:58:36
Heat of the Moment in that Parliament it worked right but when you replay it as a
00:58:42
meme like a million times to young punks who were 17 who've got no freaking idea
00:58:50
what Parliament is let alone in the house it doesn't work right um but you know
00:58:56
[ __ ] happens yeah I don't know why it was so funny but it just was um and what
00:59:02
about to Todd Muller so he he was the lead of that um it's very Game of Thrones isn't it Parliament it's um it's
00:59:08
not it wasn't that period I think you know what what what in government it can
00:59:12
be quite like a military you know you're marching forward the key sort of English
00:59:15
government you know it's all everyone knows their place you don't you know
00:59:20
it's very hierarchical what happens though after like that N9 years of that is there's like a pressure valve that
00:59:26
needs to be L off and the craziness comes right and as you say Game of Thrones I mean it was Game of Thrones
00:59:33
without the killing I'm not aware of any killing right um so you know it just was
00:59:38
right and uh so again I'm not judgmental you know we got to a point as I say I'm
00:59:44
surprised in a way I didn't get done earlier but Co came I knew at that point
00:59:51
I was in a I was in a pickle right I could either speak out about Co and kind of go nuts on it and some of the issues
00:59:59
there that wasn't going to go so well or I could be quiet but if you go quiet you
01:00:04
lose momentum and you go down in the polls anyway I knew there was a number in the polls if I went under it um in
01:00:10
terms of my party support they were going to move right these guys were on on routine you know for for for years
01:00:17
looking for any reason because you know parliament's a place full of ambitious
01:00:21
play people and rightly so that that time came um you know I wasn't going to
01:00:27
go down without a fight we put it to vote you know the rumor has it who knows I lost by one vote um and uh you know
01:00:36
that was that maybe who knows maybe in a life sense it was all doing me a favor you know cuz cuz cuz life's pretty good
01:00:44
now yeah everything happens for a reason but um yeah I can't imagine that time
01:00:47
would have been very nice so yeah you were replaced by Todd Malo he made a very very good opening speech I thought
01:00:53
seemed very Prime ministerial and then how many days later how many days did he last H it's a 50 something yeah because
01:01:00
because it's tough right it's all that stuff and that's why I say you know um
01:01:04
pat on the back to me you know I was going through there for years right at that perod very very hard and you say
01:01:10
it's tough look at it was but the tougher bits when you're in it actually
01:01:15
it's a bit like that when I told you I got out of criminal law going to politics that moment when you're no
01:01:20
longer leader of a party that's got a lot of division at that time and issues
01:01:26
the way comes off your back in life is good like I as long as internally within yourself you're not sitting there
01:01:32
thinking I've done these things wrong and I I genuinely you know maybe it's
01:01:36
what I just have to tell myself but I think personally genuin I didn't you know I don't sit there with a lot of
01:01:42
regret that I got things wrong as I've already said so actually the the you know it was a hard day I had to go and
01:01:47
give a kind of a eat Humble Pie speech and you know and the irony of these things is as the media always do because
01:01:54
they're out to get you every once they've got you they're your friend
01:01:58
again right and they're like if only he had given that speech when he was leader
01:02:01
it's like well I did but you guys never covered it you know that's the way it
01:02:05
goes they're like a pack of vultures they they yeah they scavengers that want
01:02:09
blood but the next day life is good right and um and you know uh you know felt felt very very felt very very good
01:02:19
I a plea would be to you know those out there who actually don't follow the stuff that closely because I think those
01:02:23
who do have a bit more of an understanding you know don't go up to David Seymour or Winston Peters or
01:02:29
Nicola Willis or Chris epkins or you know James Shaw Mar Davidson and you know swear at them and tell them what
01:02:36
[ __ ] they are look that's you don't really know they're all there trying to
01:02:41
do their thing and and you'll have a snippet of something and so those ones would get me you know you sit down on a
01:02:48
plane and some guys in your face abusing you for an hour you know it's like oh
01:02:53
totally you know and and it's just kind like so you know for all of the people
01:02:58
think you know oh that politicians a hot or that you know being a good politician
01:03:03
at a senior level requires a lot of self-control that's that's quite Aston
01:03:08
that's astonishing to me um people are always nice in person like there that
01:03:12
phrase keyboard Warriors but there there does seem to be a thing with politicians
01:03:16
where it's like it's fear game that's right it shouldn't be but hey look all
01:03:22
of the sounds it was a great ride yeah and there's a lot of privilege that comes
01:03:27
being in politics and you know you get to meet amazing people do some really interesting things so yeah well what
01:03:33
about Christopher lexon you worked with him for a while yeah um what what did you what did you make of him I is you a
01:03:39
very personable good guy and um you know he he um I think I think what's going to
01:03:46
happen with this government it's you know be a bit careful because now I'm a
01:03:49
a a public servant at a level in the C chair role and I you know and I think the code means I I have to sound like I
01:03:57
could work comfortably with either part of the parliament and all of that um and
01:04:01
that's all True by the way you know I of a regard for for Chris Hipkins um and
01:04:06
and some of his colleagues but you know I think he's good guy Chris luxon I think he's doing a good job and I think
01:04:12
um you know it's a new government it's going to pick up momentum I think that's
01:04:17
inevitably what happens with governments happen with the adun government you know
01:04:21
the key government um the Clark government will happen with this one too and what about um so the um the the gay
01:04:28
marriage vote you you voted against that yeah you look was was that like um because of your religious beliefs or you
01:04:35
look back now and think actually I'd vote differently now or I would vote differently now because so you get hung
01:04:40
up on these ridiculous things that you know don't matter and well they do matter but you know your kind of
01:04:47
technical arguments about them don't matter so you know I'm clear I would change that now I
01:04:56
mean I think in the end it it it wasn't you know out of some sort of you know
01:05:02
somewhat cast bigotry or silly business like that you know I had my technical reasons why I thought um you know I I
01:05:11
thought we were in a better place at that time not to not not to support that law but you know in the end I was wrong
01:05:19
I was missing a big picture it was all trees without the forest you know and uh um and that is sort of that yeah is is
01:05:29
that um is it quite liberating for you to admit that or is it hard does it feel like getting some humble pile it doesn't
01:05:36
feel like humble pile I think I think the issue with these you know um social issues like that is they become
01:05:45
very binary right you know um well we voted that way must be a homophobe um and and and you know and
01:05:55
and and and and have a position on the LGBT um uh Community you know so so this is the I I think that and and people
01:06:04
then you know they they they typ cast you right well this guy's just a religious nut who has that view I don't
01:06:10
think that's fear um in in my case maybe in some people's case you know as I say
01:06:15
there was some Nuance technical uh reasons but you know I missed the wood for the trees and um and I regret that
01:06:22
well I feel like luxon had the same sort of thing like people were like he's a
01:06:24
fundamentalist Christian he's going to ban abortion it was like um almost scaremongering and fear tactics in a way
01:06:32
so yeah what was the what was the um Co stuff so this is when uh you you were still leader of the National Party you
01:06:39
got death threats at the time yeah definitely I mean I can remember um I can remember what did you say do
01:06:44
notified those look in the end if you go back and look at the various sort of statements they were by today's standard
01:06:52
very moderate right you know I wasn't running the crazy conspiracy theories um
01:06:56
I wasn't you know we were making again quite technical arguments around you know fact I pushed for the lockdown it
01:07:04
wouldn't have happened as fast it did if I hadn't pushed Jinder ardun and her
01:07:09
government into it both privately and publicly right but then there was a point where the the social costs and the
01:07:15
overall costs of the thing were worse than the was trying right and I was making that case but but I think what I
01:07:22
learned then is you can be right too early the crowd isn't caught up with you
01:07:27
right and and um and and actually you know if you look at Chris Hipkins right now he's getting
01:07:32
some Flack you know that he should be saying and jumping around more actually in those early days of opposition I
01:07:37
don't think that's fair at all right you better to sit there and let the
01:07:41
government play its role sort of technically speaking let them do that and but I that wasn't my style I was out
01:07:48
there I was pushing for it and yeah death they're scary they're really the
01:07:51
thing about these things it's not so much me and how it affects me it's how
01:07:55
fix your family right and and admittedly what happened then is we you know our house at the time in Tonga um
01:08:02
parliamentary service um end up fitting it with more Panic alarms and you've had
01:08:06
hot dinners and fences and da D and you know my father-in-law who was with us for Lockdown from the UK cuz he got
01:08:13
trapped here um you know every s he'd go to turn on the lights down and where he
01:08:18
was sort of living in a kind of a granny flat top here and press the Panic alarm
01:08:21
and they'd be police there in 3 minutes and was good to know they came i' never
01:08:26
seen guys scale a wall so fast right but but it was scary and I do think um you know I I think little bit of a tendency
01:08:34
new people say you know it's the center left politicians who have all this hard
01:08:38
stuff happening actually no I think it happens across the Spectrum and you know I'm sure that the Chris Lux and the
01:08:45
David Seymour and so on are uh are living with these things even though they don't talk about them um uh much if
01:08:53
at all how so how we kids at the time they bit oh young right so they've just
01:08:58
they're 12 10 six now so we're talking you know sort of I don't know 9 8 six
01:09:04
three sort of things okay so how do how do you explain that to them we' be pretty sheltered um but but what is true
01:09:10
and I don't not so talking about my children per se but I think what is also
01:09:14
true and see who was I talking to someone in public life you know wasn't a politician Sports actually very
01:09:20
significant I won't say who Sports uh star and you know again what would affect me was not what
01:09:28
happened to me I could take the abuse I got crocodile skin in the end and the issue becomes you end up being too
01:09:34
unsensitive right to what people are saying which sometimes is valid criticism but it's how to fix your
01:09:39
family kids go to school they get bullying at school right you know it only takes two in a class and they're
01:09:46
having you on because your dad is blah or your m is you know D and um that's
01:09:51
the stuff that really you know affects affects you um how your kids are when they're too young to I understand they
01:09:58
haven't done anything uh wrong but but I think that happens across various forms
01:10:03
of public life yeah but it shouldn't and you um what you were saying before that
01:10:07
about you having like a crocodile skin you shouldn't have to no you know what I
01:10:11
mean it doesn't it doesn't make it right we should be condoning that at all no
01:10:15
It's Tricky one isn't it it's um I always think yeah you're it's very you
01:10:19
got to be careful to when someone's abusing the crap out of you you know there'll be something at it where they
01:10:25
they've got a point potentially right um and and you just you want to you know
01:10:30
you want to want to want to want to if there is a Val point you want to sort of hear that yeah um so when you're a
01:10:36
leader of the opposition and you're doing tough interviews like say um like Mike hosing on ZB or John Campbell had
01:10:42
Campbell live at the time Jack tame perhaps on Q&A or Sunday whatever it is um do you do you get nervous before them
01:10:51
how much prep's involved do you sit down afterwards and have like a post analys
01:10:55
or debrief with your team I think as a cabinet minister and the opposition leader I I certainly overprepared um you
01:11:02
know I to me would been unforgivable to go into that and not technically have an
01:11:07
answer around something and be accurate about it and and I think you look back on my record and say actually that guy
01:11:12
was strong on that he never got his facts wrong he always constructed the argument right um once I lost the
01:11:20
leadership though it was a bit more of a whatever kind of a phase of life in fact
01:11:25
the interviews flow better when you're like that right it's you know you're a
01:11:28
bit less prepared you're kind of more laser fear kind of who cares sort of thing and and actually what you find is
01:11:34
these things aren't necessarily as probing as you um and and your demeanor matters as much or more as kind of
01:11:40
having all the all the the the the facts right so I think by the end I went into
01:11:45
these things pretty easy oy they're very different styles you know your jack tame
01:11:50
one is whatever it was 10 minutes if it's going badly for you 15 minutes um you know they keep it going um you know
01:11:58
my look look at a level very cynically speaking as a politician I would look at those things say look actually the vast
01:12:05
preponderance of kiwis ain't watching this on a Sunday morning so actually it's all just about style demeanor if
01:12:11
they want to keep chipping in and interrupting you and you know with their questions and trying to cross-examine
01:12:16
you like their per Mason let them let them finish their thing don't talk over
01:12:21
them let them say whatever they want and then get back to what you want to say right so it's you end up the the the
01:12:26
Mike hosking one's more like an orgasm right it's like over before you began
01:12:30
right I don't know about you but you know it's like it's like it's like 2
01:12:34
minutes right and it's it's kind of so that is that is a very intense commercial radio so I don't know I was
01:12:41
particularly good at that but you got to know what you're going to say before
01:12:44
you're on like if you got three points you want to get out cuz he might go anywhere obviously you know you get a
01:12:50
briefing though like you get a brief of the theme of the chat or not really I mean look at a level it'll be like oh
01:12:56
we're on to talk about crime or you're on to talk about you know Oakland City
01:13:00
issues you're on to talk about um you know the text Cuts you're promising but
01:13:04
but look of course anything can go and of course the reason they get you on may also be something else that you don't
01:13:09
want to talk about in addition to that thing like you know um you know a personal issue you've got or whatever
01:13:15
and then um you know and then there's everything else in between you know your
01:13:19
more soft TV ones where it's like being more by a by cuddly teddy or whatever
01:13:24
and a pack of labradors yeah yeah you know so so they're all a bit they're all
01:13:28
a bit um different but I think my general advice to APS today to be sort of go with good demeanor you know you
01:13:36
know your facts but actually it's it's more how you appear that people are
01:13:40
smelling aren't they you know it's kind of that test what's it like with the
01:13:44
sound off um are you s this SM if Jack wants to talk over you hey Hakuna Matata my friend is all good yeah well it's
01:13:52
it's interesting that CU I've had um uh Ashley Bloomfield on the podcast yes and
01:13:56
he talked about the hosking thing and on hosking mornings he said him and his coms team would be up at like 3:00 a.m.
01:14:02
prepping for it like had be [ __ ] himself and wake up in a sweat those mornings before the alarm went I imagine
01:14:07
and then um and the lead up to the last election Winston Peters did a train rck of an interview with Jack T and uh there
01:14:13
were opinion pieces afterwards saying oh Winston Peter's not fit for Parliament
01:14:17
because this and you you're right no one's watching no one no one really
01:14:21
cares or people that do watch and then they make up their of course there's different purposes you know from Winston
01:14:25
Peter's perspective having an in quotes train wreck uh interview might might be
01:14:29
a wonderful thing right because there's a segment of uh New Zealand who um you
01:14:35
know quite likes that actually so it's all where it's a bit different if you're
01:14:40
you're a leader of a one of the two bigger parties where you know you're
01:14:43
seeking to be I think you Ed the word before you know more States manly uh around or womanly around those things
01:14:49
did you did did you sort of like Winston Peters you like sparring with him ah totally look I mean he's he is a great
01:14:55
New Zealand character um you know who's done a um you know who's who's who's
01:15:03
who's done so much um you know I think um I I see to him relatively recently
01:15:09
something like you know someone needs to write a book about you Winston I said but you you might need to
01:15:14
be gone so that there's no defamation laws involved and uh and and uh and he
01:15:20
said something like you know I've been too busy living life not writing life
01:15:25
um but you know I think um whatever your view about Winston Peters he has been a
01:15:31
big singular figure around New Zealand Poli now for for for a very long time and and I think right now you know he he
01:15:40
brings um some welcome significant experience experience into the government um you
01:15:47
know everyone will have their view but um that's sort of mine yeah I I I agree
01:15:53
like you see uh your footage of him with mold dun in the 70s like he's he's been
01:15:57
he's like the Forest Gump of New Zealand politics he's everywhere through every
01:16:01
set of government over the last 50 odd years he's been there it's it's been a
01:16:05
remarkable career and um yeah it's going to be a huge loss when he eventually
01:16:09
there will have to be a big Winston book sometime you know like you know New Zealand politics um and um yeah it look
01:16:18
as I say they'll have to make sure they've got a good defamation lawyer but
01:16:22
he'll wait till he dies it's the only safe time to do it there was another
01:16:25
clip I found on YouTube of um you getting kicked out of parliament by Trevor Mel who's the speaker of the
01:16:30
house is is that a big is that a moment of Shame is it like is it like an O black getting a red card I think it's a
01:16:36
moment of Pride um by the end you know it's it's a you know I think I think it
01:16:40
depends who you are right there's there's some there'll be some cats in
01:16:43
that Parliament like oh no I've been kicked out of parliament my mother saw this what am I going to do you know and
01:16:49
and but but but but you know I I I think with my courtroom background you know and and a bit of a dose of cynicism it's
01:16:56
like there is fundament I mean there is if you really push the luck you end up getting fined right you don't really
01:17:01
want that because they can end up sort of take docking your pay every week for the rest of your parliamentary term
01:17:09
right and Natalie wouldn't be real happy with that right you don't want to make
01:17:11
sure so so there are if you really go for the doctor there's but you know there are can be some quite extreme um
01:17:20
results but that hasn't happened in a long time I think Nick Smith nearly got
01:17:23
it happenening to him but that hasn't so by the end of parliament right and some
01:17:27
people will be appalled by this but you know it is what it is by the end of parliament when I was no longer lead of
01:17:32
the opposition actually you know I I I I knew I was going because I you know I'd
01:17:37
done my my Dash and I think i' you know been Finance spokes person in with Trevor you know I just had a
01:17:46
rule um I'm going to get kicked out once a week and and I you know it was this
01:17:51
was not difficult I would just I'd just start taking points of order they'd have
01:17:56
no point to them you know really um I'd give them the borax and you know you
01:18:01
knew by about the third time you're doing that he was going to be like out and and that was cool cuz then I could
01:18:06
go back to my office and watch Netflix or whatever it was I wanted to do did you um once you left Parliament did it
01:18:13
feel um I don't know how how did it feel did it feel like there was a big hole in
01:18:18
your life I reckon what makes a massive difference is how you go I.E are you going cuz you've decided
01:18:25
or you're going because you lost and you you weren't reelected right so I think
01:18:30
that psychologically makes a mess of you know I got a bunch of Pals who who you know they they failed to win their seat
01:18:36
or whatever and they're not back in and that that sort of in quotes haunts them
01:18:41
right they always want to get back you know they want to get back because they've got unfinished
01:18:46
business now look at a level I could always say I've got a bit of Unfinished
01:18:50
Business you know it would have been privilege to being New Zealand prime minister and some of these but but I'd
01:18:55
been there I'd I'd seen it all been pretty high up um I'd done my time and I
01:19:03
decided to go and so I think psychologically knowing you're going on your terms um makes a big difference I think
01:19:10
what's also true is knowing that you know I had some opportunities right if I
01:19:13
was sitting here right now and you know um it didn't G too well for me on the
01:19:18
outside and I didn't have some meaningful work to do that that that that could be a real show look I I know
01:19:24
I it was it was liberating it was exciting you know as soon as I got out you know we were we were offshore for a
01:19:31
little while on a kind of a Holland had been able to have for for quite a long time um I knew I had a job to go to um
01:19:39
so so you know I didn't have that but I I can see how people do yeah what are the um perks of being a
01:19:48
minister that you miss is there anything there's only one thing right and and and
01:19:53
look that it's amazing they're not doing it anymore no there's two things I'll
01:19:56
give you two um number one is the crown car right and by the way you know yeah and but and and they're using them less
01:20:03
and less and it's remarkable to me but but I tell you what if you're a senior
01:20:06
Minister you work fraking hard and you are always tired and you may well have been at a function where you know you're
01:20:15
not getting drunk don't get me wrong but you know it's a you'll have had a couple
01:20:19
of glasses of wine or something you should not be driving I mean I I would have been a danger
01:20:25
to other Road users where I driving those situations and being in that Crown cast say if you're the minister of
01:20:31
Transport or something you're out in the regions checking out what's going on
01:20:35
meeting with MS and so on you know that that is an office you know that is you're in the back there and you know I
01:20:42
I was pretty staunched right I some of them would be chatting to the driver and you know listening to um know one of
01:20:47
your many radio shows or something you know um I I was always working right I always had 10 phone calls to make I had
01:20:55
papers to read I was a conscientious guy so I I I think that that Crown car thing
01:21:01
was like a privilege but it was an essential right and I'm telling you now if I ever someone ever if I ever won the
01:21:07
Power Ball and get 45 million I'm going to get a driver again right cuz I think
01:21:11
that's amazing and then secondly the other one that you don't get in opposition you get this you know little
01:21:17
room in Parliament and the Parliament rooms are nice because they got the wood paneling and so on but but what you get
01:21:22
when you're back in the Beehive is you do get your own dunan shower right every
01:21:27
Minister gets a dunan shower and that's quite a you sort of want that right you're there long hours you know I don't
01:21:33
I don't want to be using the communal kind of ablutions and uh so there'd be
01:21:37
two for you oh that's good what what perks do you get for life is there anything anymore do you get do you get
01:21:42
domestic flights no is that no no there's none of that there was I mean you go back to the the 80s and '90s it
01:21:48
was unbelievable I mean I think there you know you still have the the last of a breed who who who you know if they
01:21:54
travel internationally they only pay 10% of the fear you know um um you know but
01:22:01
but but I assure you in my case there is zero um left um you know as I sit here youday two today two two about two years
01:22:10
on from leaving Parliament there is no remaining I think the only thing I could think of is if I went to Parliament I
01:22:16
haven't um I don't think I literally have since I've been out um I could go
01:22:22
and sit in the parliament on the side they actually in the the house as they call it I think that's about the only
01:22:29
remaining thing I'd I'd sort of have left as a kind of a a special treatment
01:22:34
yeah but there's there's no Financial thing all of that the last of it died
01:22:39
out with key actually where he um and and I suppose the government I was part of got rid of it yeah and from a um a
01:22:46
personal like mental perspective how how have you been it seems like um it seems
01:22:50
like you're you're fa robust cuz I'm thinking of like like Todd Todd Muller
01:22:54
well publicized mental health issues um G is Gan at the moment um I mean that shoplifting that's got to be connected
01:23:01
to mental health in some way cuz it just makes no sense um what about you fairly
01:23:05
robust yes I think I am a reasonbly stoic kind of you know I think something about the upbringing big family kind of
01:23:12
you know you get up every day it doesn't really matter what's going on you do the
01:23:16
job I think whether I am anymore I think I've got a bit sort of um fat and middle
01:23:21
class but you know I mean I used to PR myself I live on a can of baked beans a day you know I I you know when I went
01:23:28
through University had no money you I wor a lot of jobs and sleep much you know but then I still managed to do well
01:23:34
at University right so so I do I suppose you're right I I have a perception of
01:23:38
myself as a tough robust guy who just gets on and does the business and doesn't worry too much about the
01:23:43
emotions and all that sort of stuff um I think though that the slightly more interesting answer is hey you know I can
01:23:51
remember on those plane trips you know you just everything had gone wrong all week you know you knew that half your
01:23:57
colleagues were trying to do you and you know you hadn't handled X Y and Z every
01:24:02
well and you know you might be sitting there um just quietly by S pretend you're sleeping but wanting to cry you
01:24:08
know and um so I I think anyone in some of the circumstances I found myself and would be in the same sort of situation I
01:24:17
don't think um but or or or or Worse frankly but um so I don't want to pretend it was perfect and and I don't
01:24:24
want to pretend my response to some of the stuff over the years has been perfect but I think I do feel you know
01:24:30
again this the word we've use it but I do feel grateful that um that I've never
01:24:37
you know there's been periods of depression probably you know due to the circumstance but I've never had major
01:24:44
mental health problems which we know you know so many today um do and and and you
01:24:50
know it's so good that we talk about that stuff more than than we we used to
01:24:55
are you quite good at talking about it like uh with with with Natalie like do you would you get home on a Friday
01:25:01
afternoon and she's like how's your week and you're like uh don't ask I was never
01:25:04
good at it never I was terrible you know I'm like you yeah I think so and I think
01:25:09
you other thing is you know hey because I've got an introvert part of me that's
01:25:13
that's quite big right so and you're out there as a politician you've just talked
01:25:17
to like a thousand people all freaking week and you're just home be and Tong or
01:25:22
you know um on on Friday afternoon and you just want to you don't want to say
01:25:27
another word right and you know you've got someone who wants something from you
01:25:31
and it's just like how was it good you know any issues no um pass me that bottle you know um and so but but I tell
01:25:40
you what I've learned more recently and and this is just something you know and
01:25:43
this doesn't come natural to me but I think I've got a bit better I think
01:25:46
Natalie would I've got bit bit better and I've just got this thing so we will
01:25:50
have uh you know come home from a from from work on Wednesday nights you know maybe we manag to somehow miraculously
01:25:58
get rid of the kids upstairs at some point in time cup of tea I'll make sure
01:26:03
on that and this is nothing much right but I'll make sure in that cup of tea
01:26:06
actually we're having a really good meaningful conversation where I'm fully
01:26:10
present fully engaging she is we're both you know asking and answering you know
01:26:16
questions in a in a in a in a full genuine way and look most people say oh you whack job is that all you can manage
01:26:23
but that's progress for me oh well cuz I'm a man you know men are a certain way
01:26:28
and you and I are a similar age and it's just not the New Zealand we were raised
01:26:31
in um and it's funny because like vulnerability is a massive word now and we're understanding that um the more you
01:26:38
can open up and talk about these things um the better off you are from mental perspective but like from a
01:26:43
parliamentary perspective it's definitely not there yet like if if you're just do and you you show a motion
01:26:48
at the mosque that's fine if you're John Key show emotion at Pik River mine
01:26:52
that's fine but if if if if you stand up there and say hey I'm not doing very
01:26:55
well like a lot of people have been mean to me online I've had some death threats
01:26:58
and you get emotional um reflecting on your own stuff that's going on people
01:27:01
are going to be like this guy's not fit this that's right I and I think it just
01:27:06
there's a kiwi aspect to it all which you know I'm not even necessarily saying
01:27:09
as entirely wrong but it's like oh that's all a bit indulgent you know they're all about themselves they're
01:27:14
talking about themselves and as a politician you know call me old school but it's kind of like you're there for
01:27:20
the people you're there for others you know you're not there to be talking
01:27:22
about your own stuff right you know um and and so so there is all of that with with that isn't it um and
01:27:32
uh you know like I say heck of a job I'm I'm glad to be out where I'm living a
01:27:37
much more um in quotes normal life you know I if I um you know it's amazing how
01:27:46
quickly people don't abuse you on the street anymore they know you're out you
01:27:50
know um uh you can go back to a level of anonymous anonimity you know the word I mean um
01:27:57
that and turn that into slushies slush an un but I should have given you a slushy today you so should
01:28:06
have no it's not a stitch up here um what about um crying do you are you much
01:28:11
for Cryer when when did you last cry I think I do cry um more than people because cuz in a way you're like I'm all
01:28:16
over the show here in this podcast and you'll say what you just said you weren't like in a
01:28:21
way you know maybe we all are in a way I'm deeply emotional things can make me
01:28:26
quite I tell you what made me really emotional recently and may me again s of says what a whack job he's crying about
01:28:32
something external that he and a guy doesn't even know but I'll tell you what
01:28:35
made me cry recently like really recently as we recall this is Alex nalni you know the opposition guy in Russia
01:28:45
and just you know cuz I sort of sit there and think you know you're opposition it was had it hard moments
01:28:50
and you know and you you felt on some days that everyone hated you and you know and that was just on your side and
01:28:56
you know all of that you sit there and think about this guy and I suppose it goes back to my childhood and I say that
01:29:01
reading I did and you know the politics should be Noble and you know it matters and so on there's a guy you know who
01:29:08
kind of like um a bit like you know if you're religious Jesus in a way knew he
01:29:14
was going to die for what he was doing right I mean this is not a smart game plan he had taking on Putin every day
01:29:21
and out mocking the guy you know and going at him sticking up for ordinary Russian s he ended up and I can remember
01:29:27
thinking about it before he was he died tragically you know but you know you know the poisoning and then he ended up
01:29:32
in like the worst Eastern block prison up in the back of where you know the the treat you know the treatment would have
01:29:38
been ping and the guy was exactly the same age as me 47 and you know if you kind of put it at its he
01:29:47
died for his country I remember the morning that happened I woke up and saw look I don't know why it just triggered
01:29:53
something me and I cried a month or two ago and uh so yeah I mean I think I'm
01:29:59
capable of you know a good movie will make me cry still um uh you know um maybe something around my kids you know
01:30:07
if it's not quite right or I feel like you know it's so so I probably I think a
01:30:13
lot of go I probably do have a closet cry at some level every week or to but it's I I um I do love that I've had a
01:30:21
couple of our peers on the the podcast Adam perori for New Zealand C and Matthew Ridge and um yeah Reggie said he
01:30:28
cries all the time now like he'll be driving in his car on his own just reflecting on some things that he's like
01:30:33
happy about but I can see he is a you know and and and like I see this me in a different way he's even more so with
01:30:39
that sort of what is he a minion a minion kind of disposition probably right that sort of but but but he's you
01:30:45
know you can see that he is a passionate emotional guy right I probably do a good
01:30:49
job of hiding that and becoming more stoical I think law and politics kind of teaches you that rational side of the
01:30:56
brain s but I think I think we've all got a bit of that and I and I and I definitely have and it comes out a bit
01:31:01
and probably now I'm more free and easy it comes out more than it than it used
01:31:04
to yeah you got any regrets I don't want to create I don't want to create a headline here but but
01:31:13
you know we've talked about you know one or two of them my political career where
01:31:17
you I've said the wrong thing and I think um but fundamentally um I always think it's a
01:31:23
bit chea people say I don't do regrets but I kind of don't I I I do think
01:31:29
basically I got things right the right times and the big stuff I think I've learned over time you know I could be a
01:31:36
bit clinical you know I'm kind of like well I'm I've got the outcomes right I'm
01:31:39
trying to do the right thing here for New Zealand You Know da da um I think I've learned more good leaders um I
01:31:46
still consider myself at a level of leader you know on that front line but you know good leaders do have an empathy
01:31:52
and an understanding of the people they do have good EQ you know they do have emotion and and and you probably I could
01:31:57
have brought a bit more of that to Bear you know um I talked about the interviews that's just an example of
01:32:03
this you I got every answer right but maybe there was a need for a bit more Humanity maybe that's true on the gay
01:32:09
marriage one you know for example some of these things so we're all learning
01:32:13
aren't we and uh and hopefully like I don't know if I'm getting better because
01:32:17
I probably am I'm probably picking up a bunch of new bad habits but you know
01:32:20
we're all learning and changing if you're the same guy you would were 20
01:32:24
years ago well you're [ __ ] with you know actually we got to keep moving with and
01:32:29
evolving and and learning things and being surprised by things um yeah yeah it's funny at that isn't it we you you
01:32:36
have old friends and um you know they may want to go out drinking you don't want to go and they like you've changed
01:32:41
and it's like well yeah you haven't you haven't changed who's the winner here
01:32:46
and um second second half of your life what's that going to look like um I I
01:32:50
just wanted to be interesting stimulating and I suppose the politician in me there's still a bit of that I I do
01:32:56
you know I think people say what are what are you you know why what is this about are you about is it you like the
01:33:02
fame or do you is it you know you were um Power hungry or it's got to be a bit
01:33:07
of ego doesn't it there's a bit of and there's always every politician but I
01:33:11
think I think what I what I do want is is is some significance by which I mean you know I sense
01:33:17
that I am doing something that matters for more than myself and will leave some form of Legacy you know and and and and
01:33:26
you know um so so I think you know interest um you know loved ones family all of those things but but but I think
01:33:36
you know I still I still want want to to you know I love New Zealand I still I still do want to to to be significant in
01:33:44
this country and be contributing right not in politics anymore but but but another Fields whether that's business
01:33:49
or you know or or you know through this nzta role so yeah I'm looking forward to
01:33:55
it you know all the super well not superficial but all the good stuff you and I both want you know I got to look
01:34:00
after my health so I get to 100 I'd like to make a 100 some people want to um uh
01:34:05
I want to travel there's thousand places I want to go um with my family and show
01:34:11
show my kids these amazing places so I look I I uh the wrist was a wake up call but I'm looking forward to the next 47
01:34:20
years how good and you're looking very relaxed life is great is great hey thanks so much for your time today I'm
01:34:27
so pleased we connected and made this happen and um yeah anyone that's still
01:34:30
listening now 1 hour 34 into it I hope they've um that you you are what they
01:34:35
thought you were or they've got like a different perception of you for the better hey well thank you having me D
01:34:39
look the checks in the mail because this counseling session has been outstanding
01:34:45
it's been a hugely positive beneficial therapeutic experience me but I serious
01:34:49
so thank you for what you're doing it's it's a great podcast and you know I know
01:34:53
a people get a lot of lot of meaning from it I appreciate that Simon Bridges thank you cheers
01:34:59
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