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David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

January 29, 2023 / 01:43:43

This episode of Runners Only features Dom Harvey interviewing David Seymour, the leader of the ACT Party. Key topics include Seymour's relationship with running, his political views, and reflections on Jacinda Ardern's resignation as Prime Minister.

Seymour shares his infrequent running habits, joking about running every three years. He discusses his voting history, expressing his support for the National Party and his shift to ACT during a turbulent political period.

The conversation touches on Ardern's resignation, with Seymour offering a sympathetic view of her challenges in leadership and the political landscape. He reflects on their past interactions and expresses respect for her charisma.

Seymour also discusses his relationships with other politicians, including Willie Jackson and Winston Peters, sharing anecdotes about their interactions and the dynamics of New Zealand politics.

The episode concludes with Seymour reflecting on his personal life, including his mother's battle with polio and her impact on his values, as well as his experiences on Dancing with the Stars and the lessons learned from his political career.

TL;DR

David Seymour discusses running, politics, Jacinda Ardern's resignation, and personal reflections in this episode of Runners Only.

Episode

1:43:43

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hey Runners only with dime Harley

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Runners only with dom Harvey and act

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party leader David Seymour g'day g'day

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mate how you going very well thank you

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very much for joining me on the podcast

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really appreciate it oh no great thanks

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and um the first thing we need to

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discuss and uh take off is um your

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relationship with running the podcast is

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called Runners only uh there is a

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running thread to it

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um do what is your relationship with

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running you like running you hate

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running you run it all I run every three

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years which party do you run for

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if we're talking about that um you know

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a lot of people my my late nanner in

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particular she was very secretive about

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who she voted for never shared it with

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anyone

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um I don't give a [ __ ] I've voted

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National my entire life um

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but I did vote for Eric last time around

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just because some people are improving I

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voted for Eric last time around just

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because I'm a national Wilson uh Judith

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Collins was the leader and nationalism

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disarray but I do have a lot of they

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just promoted her again Judith Collins

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yeah have they you have to vote for ACT

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again all right maybe maybe a lot can

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happen in a year so we we are recording

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this I'm not sure when this podcast is

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going to be released but we're recording

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it in mid-January the day after it was

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announced uh that Jacinda ardern

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resigned as prime minister what are your

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thoughts

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um look first of all I just wish you

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well

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um every time there's a high profile

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resignation there's all this rumor mill

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and you know I remember when John Key

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resigned some of the rumors were just so

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everyone was saying he was having a fear

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with Melissa Lee was it oh

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um wow that I hadn't heard that one yeah

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that's that's one of the better ones

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I've heard but um what did you heard or

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you don't want to go there possibly but

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the truth is

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um John loves life and he loves looking

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at numbers and he looked at his numbers

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and he realized he wasn't going to love

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life for much longer the way people were

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turning on them they didn't want to

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stick around for his own political

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funeral and being a Trader and a numbers

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man he got out before it got too hot in

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the kitchen and um I think something

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similar has happened here you look at

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what she can achieve outside politics

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versus what she can achieve inside

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politics well outside politics and as

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she said herself she she wants to see

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her daughter go to school on her first

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day and who could possibly hold that

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against it she wants to marry her

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partner good order on the other hand

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inside politics you know all the numbers

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are against her the approval rating the

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preferred prime minister the labor party

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polling the people saying the country's

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going the wrong direction the business

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confidence I mean you pick a number it's

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gone really bad recently

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um and even if she got a third term

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she'd probably be in a coalition with

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really difficult people not a single

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party government anymore and I can see

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her just saying why why I know there has

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to be a prime minister but why do I have

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to ruin my life so good honor and um you

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know obviously there's many things I

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disagree with just under a den that's

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why I lead a totally different political

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party but good honor for you know giving

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it a best having the best of intentions

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and um you know I hope that she she does

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well with her family and whatever and

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I'm sure she will have an interesting

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job next as well yeah no doubt and um

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probably earn a considerable amount more

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money I'd imagine in the private sector

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if that's what she chose to do yeah who

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knows the boards Happy Days yeah who

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knows what's your how would you describe

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your relay is there a relationship

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between you and her at all do you guys

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hate each other like if you if you if

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you hop into a left and she's there are

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you like sighing under your breath like

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oh God no no I've never felt that way

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I'm probably a bit unusual on the right

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that one is I've always thought she

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would do well

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um we were both unsuccessful candidates

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in the Auckland Central electorate in

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the 2011 election and so spending time

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with the other candidates backstage

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before the debates and stuff I mean some

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people are just dicks I'll give you

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example Winston uh yep he'd be one but

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but Colin he doesn't usually bother

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showing up for the debates but

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um Colin Craig I refuse to physically

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touch him I just knew he was a dick in

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the way that he's pursued that poor

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Express secretary through the courts

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year after year it turns out my Basic

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Instinct was was right that's right yeah

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Rachel McGregor yeah he took her to the

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cleanest she should get a honorary

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damehood or something for what she's

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gone through with that idiot but anyway

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um Jacinda on the other hand you know

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her her Charisma her warmth all of that

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stuff is real so I always thought she

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had an X Factor and a real talent and

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I've always personally liked her even as

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she's been putting in place policy is

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that I I believe will take years if not

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decades to fully reverse their impacts

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well do you think should say the same

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things about you or I reckon she hates

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you she may well do she may do I don't

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know

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um I think I think the difference is

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that she can sell and emote and and do

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things better than I ever will be able

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to on the on the marketing side my

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background is I'm an engineer I like

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putting together policy you know charter

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schools actually works uh canceled for

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ideological reasons assisted dying end

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of life choice you know that's that's a

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successful policy and so my criticism of

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her was always not not her intentions I

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mean who doesn't want to end child

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poverty and you know make New Zealand a

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kind a gentler place my criticisms of

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her always related to you know what

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she's saying she's doing is not going to

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work and often has the opposite effect I

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mean you know she banned exploring for

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natural gas but now people are using

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more coal because there's no gas I mean

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you know it's just and that's I I think

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that's the upside to everything well

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it's it's funny but somehow she got the

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intentions right and the results sort of

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totally wrong and and I think she

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probably does have some resentment that

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I've always criticized her and pointed

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that out yeah and um that sort of

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frustration on her part reached um fever

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pitch towards the end of the um

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political year last year 2022 when she

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was caught on Mike calling you what was

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it a smarmy prick is it arrogant

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arrogant yeah so that sort of went that

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sort of went viral and you sort of

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managed to turn lemons into lemonade and

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you had that had a transcript signed and

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it sold for a lot of money how much did

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it sell for on trade me like just over

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100 100 100

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that's crazy a guy who was um and it's

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the most the most amazing job he's

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actually an equine dentist uh from the

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West Coast

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um so if you need your horse's teeth

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looked into uh here's the guy and he's

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just had a big bill so he needs your

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business

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um and uh Julian Julian killer from uh

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from West Coast is a tremendous guy a

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great New Zealander who put up a hundred

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thousand dollars for the Prostate Cancer

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Foundation yeah yeah

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um something that I never I mean I saw

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that I saw that when it happened it was

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on the news that night it was everywhere

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and I thought it was kind of funny and

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the way you reacted to it it was I mean

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it was kind of funny but then I um

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something which I never really thought

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of and I read some comments online and I

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thought oh that's an interesting

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perspective had the shoe been on the

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other foot and you called her a like a

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smarmy [ __ ] or whatever an arrogant

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[ __ ] you'd be canceled oh

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can you imagine you would you wouldn't

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you wouldn't have me on on your show I

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wouldn't be here I've had a convicted

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murderer on the show I think you'd

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probably yeah maybe yeah okay yeah yeah

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but if that's your comparison I think

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you made that happen but you recognized

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that like I had the shooting on the

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other foot it's a real double standard

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isn't it

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um yeah I I think that there there are

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you know the world used to be a very

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uneven place I mean it's it's only 40

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years ago you know it's in my aunt's

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lifetime that that women couldn't have

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bank accounts and credit cards in New

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Zealand uh and there are still the

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enormous progress in remaining big

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differences and they work both ways I

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mean I think it's true that that female

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politicians tend to get more abuse and

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more violent abuse and more sexualized

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abuse I mean that's just from looking at

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some of the women we have a next caucus

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I'm pretty sure that's true

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um and yet at the same time I think

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sometimes men get get held to a higher

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standard I mean you look at the green

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co-leader Barbara Davidson going around

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talking about the the c word and saying

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that you know seas are powerful and

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she's reclaiming the word I mean how

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like I mean now that's mostly just weird

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but you know like somehow that's okay

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whereas I just I just get the feeling

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that

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um you know other people might get in

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Greater difficulty then again I did say

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the French love the [ __ ] and got away

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with it so oh yeah maybe maybe that's

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not a good example it's one of your

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viral moments I do want to get to that

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later

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um

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but I since since we've talked about

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your relationship with Jacinda before we

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move on um I'd like to talk about

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another couple of relationships so uh

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Willie Jackson he's a politician what

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did he call you he called you like a

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useless Mary or something I know and I

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just want to say I'm a very useful now

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right is that what is that what it was

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useless Mary yeah yeah so you um you are

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Maori you're that's right yeah yeah yeah

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very sad watching Seymour a man who

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claimed he was Maori you just don't know

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where he's coming from

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you know so so you know like how do you

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feel about that that's that's incredibly

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hurtful right racist uh well it is but

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again it sort of depends because I mean

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Willie mouths off in some way or another

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every day so you sort of don't take

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anything you take says that seriously

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yeah but is that kind of just saying oh

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that's Willie being Willy that's excuse

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me let's just say Willie's a bit of a

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willy right um look I think he's a he's

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a fascinating guy uh well yeah he's he's

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impossible not to like

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um and I remember shortly after he

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became a minister because here New

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Zealand have a sense of humor and sit

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here next to the most unlikely people

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sometimes

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um and he he'd been up uh in question

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time and there's the standard thing they

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ask you know does the minister stand by

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all their statements and of course you

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have to say yeah so of course I stand by

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all my States and then try and justify

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them and Willie just goes well yeah at

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the time

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I'm sorry I was sitting next to him on

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the plane and I said Willie you can't

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say that yeah

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dude you just meant so I mean and when

00:10:36

when it came to um end of life choice

00:10:38

because I you know I had to get every

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person to vote for it or enough people

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and one by one and we spent a lot of

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time meeting with Willie and talking

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about

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um you know what uh euthanasia meant in

00:10:51

Tao Maori and

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um you know with a bit of help from an

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old Courier who remained nameless who

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we've basically sat on him and she she

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talked around I think but he did

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actually give a a really beautiful

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speech in Parliament about why he

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decided to vote for the bill and he has

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a way of simplifying things down or

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maybe you only get simple things in the

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first place but you know he has a way of

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communicating things simply that is is a

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talent and everyone has a talent of

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sorts but

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um so look that's that's Willy but I I

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think there's also a darker side to him

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in the sense that you know I think he

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genuinely believes that

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um if you don't believe the right thing

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then you're not a real Maori and and

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that is that is a really big problem

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because you know we had hundreds of

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years of of fighting for everyone to be

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equal and free and now we're putting up

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these walls again saying no no if you

00:11:48

think this is the wrong type of person

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or whatever and and that that's not

00:11:52

that's not what New Zealand's supposed

00:11:53

to be about do you have an ability to

00:11:55

just pick up a guitar and play it

00:11:57

without doing any lessons or watching

00:11:58

tutorials on YouTube mate I'm tone deaf

00:12:01

I had lessons for years maybe he's on to

00:12:03

something then yeah I know it could be

00:12:05

obviously I'm disqualified yeah

00:12:08

um okay one other person I want to

00:12:09

discuss your relationship with before we

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move on to some other stuff Winston is

00:12:13

that um is that a hate hate relationship

00:12:15

or is it was it like on-screen banter he

00:12:18

seems to you seem to have a neck of

00:12:20

really getting under his skin yeah well

00:12:22

I mean I remember when

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um you know I was first elected and it

00:12:28

was the same time Chris Bishop was first

00:12:30

elected and Bish seems to have the same

00:12:31

effect and we both we both gave speeches

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because you get to give their first

00:12:37

speech the maiden speech we both gave

00:12:40

speeches saying look basically while New

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Zealand's got some problems we quite

00:12:44

like the modern New Zealand um we think

00:12:47

that New Zealand has turned out you know

00:12:50

pretty good yes there's some things that

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have gone wrong and yes there were some

00:12:53

things that were better in the old days

00:12:55

but on balance that somewhat open and

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more tolerant a richer a more hopeful

00:13:00

Society than it's been for a long time

00:13:01

and people I know people say oh about

00:13:03

somewhere but I mean honestly ask anyone

00:13:05

who was actually around in 1980 what

00:13:08

this country was like and what it's like

00:13:09

today and which one would you want to

00:13:10

live in it's an easy thing yeah for sure

00:13:13

um and of course we were giving those

00:13:15

speeches and and his whole belief is

00:13:18

that actually it would be better to go

00:13:19

back 50 years and I think to see you

00:13:22

know young people getting elected to

00:13:24

Parliament saying actually you know what

00:13:27

you're you're the past now you've lost

00:13:29

the battle

00:13:30

um and we're moving on and and there's

00:13:32

not really

00:13:34

um you know your politics doesn't really

00:13:36

have anything to offer now because

00:13:38

people are happy with with the way

00:13:39

things are generally that's called

00:13:41

progression isn't it yeah and I I think

00:13:43

that's really broken him uh because you

00:13:46

know he wants to take us back to the

00:13:48

good old days when it was great to be a

00:13:50

white straight man in the rugby racing

00:13:52

and beer in New Zealand's just his New

00:13:55

Zealand doesn't exist anymore well

00:13:56

there's aspects of 1980 that were

00:13:58

probably better than than what they are

00:13:59

now but yeah for the most part probably

00:14:01

not right

00:14:02

I mean you know I remember 1980 I was

00:14:05

seven at the time and uh we didn't we

00:14:07

moved to a new subdivision we didn't

00:14:09

have like fences with our neighbors and

00:14:10

we'd go wandering around and Mum would

00:14:12

basically lock us outside and say go out

00:14:13

and play and we'd just play and then

00:14:14

she'd call out for us at dinner time so

00:14:16

there's aspects of that are simple in

00:14:17

New Zealand which is quite a beautiful

00:14:18

thing but you can't have some of that

00:14:21

and

00:14:21

yeah I mean I think you're talking about

00:14:24

a very specific thing well well no it's

00:14:27

really interesting because like

00:14:29

um you you know kids are objectively

00:14:32

safer like the chance of of something

00:14:35

really bad happening to a kid now like

00:14:37

it's never been a safer time

00:14:39

um but people's perception is that it's

00:14:42

really dangerous and the funny thing is

00:14:45

because people are so scared for their

00:14:47

kids they protect them and they actually

00:14:49

are in Greater danger because they

00:14:50

haven't had Independence they haven't

00:14:52

had to build resilience so anyway that's

00:14:54

it I think that's a very interesting

00:14:55

example yeah but it's against the trade

00:14:58

yeah and that's probably a good point

00:14:59

now that I think back Riverdale Primary

00:15:02

School in Palmerston North like we're

00:15:03

like a jungle gym there and uh it was a

00:15:05

concrete pad underneath

00:15:07

um it's a head injury waiting to happen

00:15:09

doesn't it yeah I mean look you know

00:15:11

it's probably most kids were okay there

00:15:14

were a couple that weren't but we don't

00:15:15

talk about them okay so let's go all the

00:15:18

way back so um you're born in Palmerston

00:15:20

North um I'm from Palmer's North as well

00:15:22

I've heard you make a very charitable

00:15:24

joke

00:15:25

um that you were born and as soon as you

00:15:26

were able to walk you left town well it

00:15:29

means for it I was about a team I didn't

00:15:31

say they were connected but I was about

00:15:33

18 months so yeah so then where you

00:15:34

moved to Northland yeah yeah yeah and

00:15:36

that's where you were sort of born and

00:15:37

raised

00:15:39

I was born in party but my um my dad's

00:15:42

family is from the manawatu and my mum's

00:15:44

family's from Northland okay so we sort

00:15:45

of bounced between the two so it's you

00:15:47

and um two brothers uh so Mark and

00:15:50

Zander Mark and Xander and um your mum

00:15:52

and dad were they to they remain

00:15:53

together that they break up

00:15:55

um well they well they were told they

00:15:58

they practiced till death do us part

00:16:00

um but unfortunately my mum passed away

00:16:02

15 years ago uh this year yeah so they

00:16:05

were still together then yeah certainly

00:16:07

together at that point yeah yeah

00:16:09

um yeah sorry to hear that

00:16:11

um yeah so you're um yeah so your

00:16:14

relationship with your dad I saw an

00:16:15

article online you took him to the dudes

00:16:16

concert a couple of years ago and you

00:16:18

you had a name for it you called it the

00:16:19

good son was that just a David Seymour

00:16:22

joke well I didn't realize I'd said that

00:16:24

publicly but yeah um what is the good

00:16:26

Sun project well now he'll oh shh now I

00:16:29

hope he doesn't hear this now he'll tell

00:16:30

you what I'm just doing them it's just

00:16:32

part of a project

00:16:33

um uh no I I tried to do uh you know do

00:16:37

it appropriate stuff and one thing we

00:16:39

have in common so he he was in a band

00:16:41

back in the day

00:16:42

um and um famous band or just like a oh

00:16:45

I think they won Battle of the band so

00:16:47

yeah what was the band called it was

00:16:49

called freeway and um various members

00:16:52

sort of you know joined and separated

00:16:55

and joined and eventually part of it

00:16:57

ended up being my six so so yeah so they

00:17:00

were you know sort of sort of a couple

00:17:02

of steps from it's sort of like being

00:17:04

you know Princess Beatrice or something

00:17:06

you're a few steps away but you know but

00:17:09

almost almost royalty yeah yeah and so

00:17:13

yeah it's good to see um I mean the

00:17:14

dudes was just absolutely stunning to

00:17:17

see

00:17:18

um so to finally understand why that

00:17:20

band was so brilliant but couldn't last

00:17:22

to see how good Peter erlich's vocals

00:17:25

were and how great

00:17:26

um Dave dobbyn was as a lead guitarist

00:17:28

but also watch that Dave wanted to be

00:17:30

the singer which of course eventually

00:17:32

became DD smash yeah and eventually got

00:17:34

to sing all his own songs

00:17:36

um but it's just a shame that it

00:17:38

couldn't hang together yeah

00:17:40

um yeah so so yeah that felt like a

00:17:43

political art it was a lovely answer and

00:17:44

a great chance to reminisce about my sex

00:17:46

and the dudes but it felt like a

00:17:47

distraction to the the good Sun project

00:17:50

well which I which I'm trying not to

00:17:52

publicize undermine

00:17:54

can I when I read that can I let you

00:17:57

know what I think it means I feel I feel

00:17:59

like you're so busy and maybe you

00:18:01

haven't spent as much time with your dad

00:18:02

as what you think you should and you

00:18:03

realize he's not getting any younger so

00:18:04

you need to make a conscious effort to

00:18:05

do some things but we're going to the

00:18:08

we're going to the

00:18:09

um uh hot rod and classic car uh day at

00:18:15

upper up at kumeu this weekend so there

00:18:17

you go it's another installment but Dad

00:18:19

it's not it's not part of a project I

00:18:20

really do want to do it but you're

00:18:22

trying to do like one one thing a month

00:18:24

is it once every quarter I know you're a

00:18:26

busy guy closer to quarter to be honest

00:18:28

but yeah it's pretty wild as usual and

00:18:30

how's um how's he been has he found

00:18:32

anyone another partner or anything

00:18:34

yeah he has

00:18:36

um but you know there's I try not to

00:18:38

bring my my family too much into I'm the

00:18:40

one that shows a public life rather than

00:18:42

them so yeah is that shutting this this

00:18:45

line of questioning down because I I you

00:18:47

know I mean yeah the stuff about you

00:18:50

want to talk about your mum or oh sure

00:18:52

okay so your mum uh Victoria

00:18:55

um incredible woman so she was one of

00:18:57

the last last last kids in the Western

00:18:59

World had Polio that's true yeah so what

00:19:02

does that mean exactly like what does

00:19:04

that look like well so

00:19:06

um you know one of the most

00:19:07

extraordinary things that's happened in

00:19:09

New Zealand history is when the sulk

00:19:11

vaccine arrived

00:19:13

um by airplane and people who knew the

00:19:16

horror of polio you know children with

00:19:19

wasted limbs getting put into iron lungs

00:19:21

and terrible terrible epidemic like like

00:19:24

nothing you know what we've seen with

00:19:26

covers is nothing compared to the the

00:19:28

horror of that and and people who had

00:19:30

experienced it that they were so

00:19:32

desperate for the vaccine they actually

00:19:34

went out on because there was not much

00:19:36

airport security then people actually

00:19:37

went out onto the runway to try and get

00:19:39

it to try and get it straight off the

00:19:40

plane when was this like 96 well this

00:19:42

was not this was 1956 right in September

00:19:45

of that year she was born in April of

00:19:47

that year and I I might I have this

00:19:49

entirely right but Pete what I've pieced

00:19:51

together is that she was supposed to get

00:19:53

the vaccine at six months

00:19:55

um but they didn't have it in dargaville

00:19:58

into copperu hospital where she was born

00:20:01

and so as a result she missed out on

00:20:04

getting the vaccine and so after that I

00:20:07

mean the Salk vaccine just wiped polio

00:20:09

out from New Zealand so she was one of

00:20:11

the last to get it and I made a few

00:20:14

things I mean it meant that you know she

00:20:15

was told that she wouldn't run

00:20:18

um that she wouldn't be on this podcast

00:20:21

um you know who couldn't walk that she

00:20:23

wouldn't have children she wouldn't

00:20:24

drive she wouldn't uh you know go to

00:20:26

university she wouldn't work because

00:20:28

you've got to remember the attitudes to

00:20:30

people with a disability was different

00:20:31

completely different you know like yeah

00:20:32

they sort of hidden from mainstream

00:20:34

Society yeah like like now if someone is

00:20:36

living with a disability you really try

00:20:38

and help if you can

00:20:40

um but then it was almost like you're

00:20:42

sort of because you're not able you're

00:20:44

letting the side down totally different

00:20:45

treatment

00:20:47

um

00:20:47

and so that's that's a really

00:20:50

um you know a good thing in a way that

00:20:51

it's changed but that's what you face

00:20:53

then so her story is incredible

00:20:55

determination and as it turned out I

00:20:57

mean she had kids we mentioned my

00:20:59

brothers are fine upstanding citizens

00:21:01

who said a politician but you know

00:21:04

um you can't have three perfect kids can

00:21:06

you no exactly so one one politician's

00:21:08

not a bad price to pay for two good kids

00:21:11

um and um she she um she you know became

00:21:15

northland's biggest drug dealer

00:21:17

um

00:21:18

she was the chief pharmacist at

00:21:20

Northland dhb I mean she was shifting 15

00:21:23

million bucks of product into Northland

00:21:25

every year would that make her the

00:21:26

biggest drug dealer I don't know I feel

00:21:28

like there's some big shipments coming

00:21:29

into caprianga yeah actually I mean by

00:21:32

that's in 2007.

00:21:35

and you'd know more about drugs than me

00:21:37

Don but but

00:21:39

um you know it was a brilliant scheme

00:21:41

she was doing it right under the

00:21:43

government's nose but getting them to

00:21:44

fund it but um no so she you know she

00:21:46

was one of a Vanguard of women who Who

00:21:49

Rose to the top of their professions how

00:21:50

did a woman to do that in their

00:21:52

Generation

00:21:53

Um she really defied the odds didn't she

00:21:54

so that's that's quite a formative story

00:21:57

because I think a lot of what comes down

00:21:59

to in politics there's there's people

00:22:01

that believe you can make a difference

00:22:03

in your own life and there's people that

00:22:04

will tell you oh it's you know because

00:22:06

of colonialism or it's because of this

00:22:08

or that or structural something that you

00:22:11

know you will never succeed or you need

00:22:12

to be treated differently to 60 or

00:22:14

whatever and I'm on the side that says

00:22:17

actually you know the the ability to

00:22:19

think and reason and make a difference

00:22:21

make tomorrow better than today I mean

00:22:23

that's that's what New Zealand's about

00:22:24

because the one thing I know about every

00:22:27

kiwi is that either you or your

00:22:29

ancestors at some point someone decided

00:22:31

to move way the [ __ ] out to the middle

00:22:32

of nowhere so it's the longest journey

00:22:35

on anyone's ever made

00:22:36

and unimaginably horrible as well yeah

00:22:39

for the Hope or promise of a better life

00:22:41

and we've all got it in common I mean

00:22:43

you know the early Polynesian Navigators

00:22:46

who were ancestors of Maori I mean that

00:22:48

was amazing

00:22:49

um yeah why did they leave Hawaii like

00:22:51

yeah so what better do you want well one

00:22:54

this place is amazing well Hawaii key

00:22:57

but I mean one theory is that um because

00:23:00

they didn't have um any kind of

00:23:02

telecommunications

00:23:04

um the ones that didn't come back they

00:23:06

assumed they'd gone to a better place

00:23:07

even if they all drowned so they just

00:23:09

kept going until someone got somewhere

00:23:11

yeah I don't know so so

00:23:13

um so so you mum we're growing up like

00:23:15

would you say you're more of a mummy's

00:23:16

boy or a daddy's boy or yeah a equal

00:23:19

relationship with both of them oh but to

00:23:21

be honest I'm a pretty

00:23:22

independent-minded sort of person yeah

00:23:24

are you where are you in the birth order

00:23:25

I'm a a pre there's a word for it

00:23:28

primogenitor

00:23:30

um the firstborn oh yeah yeah it's the

00:23:32

first okay so you're 39 yeah how old are

00:23:35

your brothers 37 and 35 35 34 well it

00:23:39

depends what time of year it is up but

00:23:40

yeah 37 and 34 at the moment yeah so you

00:23:42

so your mum mum she starts feeling

00:23:44

unwell

00:23:46

um she got a she took a pregnancy test

00:23:48

or something right when she started

00:23:49

feeling unwell even though she was oh

00:23:51

she doesn't know I didn't know that she

00:23:53

was um she was she was 50 so that's a

00:23:56

bit hopeful you know I I think this

00:23:58

seems back to her um like her drug

00:24:00

background so she she took a pregnancy

00:24:01

test and it gave her like a false

00:24:04

positive how do I know this and you

00:24:05

don't this is not what I have heard this

00:24:07

story I'm trying to work out where you

00:24:09

heard it but I think I read it somewhere

00:24:10

yeah I did a lot of research so you

00:24:12

suggested positive so she knew she

00:24:13

wasn't yeah no I think that story is

00:24:15

true because she knew there was some

00:24:17

other marker that it would um would

00:24:19

trigger

00:24:20

um so yeah there was some sort of

00:24:22

logically but not the way most people

00:24:24

would use pregnancy tests but

00:24:26

um in any event yeah she she had cancer

00:24:29

and it gradually spread and and then

00:24:32

ended up spreading much more rapidly

00:24:34

than anyone expected

00:24:36

um lifestyle related or just bad luck

00:24:38

bad genes oh

00:24:40

um look there's there's some speculation

00:24:43

that it was related to the fact that her

00:24:45

job as a as a pharmacist at Northern

00:24:47

hospital was actually preparing Cancer

00:24:51

drugs for or chemotherapy treatments

00:24:54

which which are radioactive

00:24:56

um so but look I that that's a theory

00:24:59

that some people have have shared I

00:25:01

don't want to blame anyone at the

00:25:02

Northland dhb for for that being the

00:25:05

case but that's that's the closest to a

00:25:07

theory other than just total Randomness

00:25:09

yeah so um so how are you at the time

00:25:11

you like 20 early 20s

00:25:13

so you you yeah so you just finished

00:25:15

your University degrees Yeah so I just

00:25:18

graduated uni I would have been 23 so

00:25:20

can you remember that moment where you

00:25:21

got the news I can actually because I

00:25:24

was um I had a mate who decided to go

00:25:26

and work down in Queenstown and it

00:25:29

hadn't really been all that was cracked

00:25:30

up to be so I flew down there and we

00:25:32

drove back up so I was actually on a

00:25:34

phone booth in hokitika uh just because

00:25:37

remember this was it's aging out yeah

00:25:39

2006 yeah well you could still you know

00:25:42

kids you could go to a tardis well you

00:25:45

actually you could go to a box look

00:25:47

forget it they were fine there were

00:25:50

phones that didn't move

00:25:51

a long time ago

00:25:53

uh so now I do remember that so you

00:25:56

expect so you find her from the yeah she

00:25:58

can't find you in a phone box so you

00:25:59

phone home why did you phone home just

00:26:01

for a chicken oh E.T

00:26:03

um

00:26:05

no idea

00:26:06

um yeah no not sure about the reason but

00:26:09

anyway that was the conversation

00:26:11

wow and was it terminal at that stage or

00:26:15

were they quite hopeful of like finding

00:26:17

a way out of it I mean well she seems

00:26:18

like a result she she fought polio and

00:26:20

she likes you to fight all the odds yeah

00:26:22

well as you say I mean she you know she

00:26:24

read her own

00:26:26

um she read her own test results because

00:26:29

she was heavily involved in oncology at

00:26:31

the hospital so she as she said she she

00:26:34

read her results and she knew it was a

00:26:36

death sentence

00:26:37

um

00:26:38

it's pretty bad it's pretty bad when you

00:26:41

go in and the oncologist's crying so

00:26:45

um yeah so no she was pretty uh

00:26:47

realistic about it so did you as I being

00:26:50

the oldest of the three boys did you

00:26:51

have to sort of um I don't know like put

00:26:54

on a like a brave face for you for your

00:26:56

brothers how old were they like like

00:26:57

well they would have been you know three

00:27:00

and two uh or three and five years

00:27:02

younger than me so I guess 18 17 and and

00:27:05

19 or 18 or 20.

00:27:08

um yeah look obviously you know one

00:27:11

thing about death and and funerals and

00:27:13

so on is that they they do actually

00:27:15

unite families

00:27:17

um even though it's probably not really

00:27:18

worth it but that's that's one minus

00:27:21

Silver Lining yeah depends who it is I

00:27:24

guess

00:27:24

so yeah so I read that you um so you'd

00:27:27

graduated and you were just about to go

00:27:29

to Canada to take up a job over there

00:27:30

yeah and um you were like oh do I go do

00:27:33

I not go and your mum was like go you

00:27:36

can't put your life on hold because of

00:27:37

me just make sure you [ __ ] come back

00:27:38

for my funeral

00:27:39

yeah yeah well of course the other thing

00:27:41

is with with terminal illnesses and I'll

00:27:44

get in trouble at the end of life choice

00:27:46

people for saying this but there is some

00:27:47

uncertainty about the prognosis and

00:27:49

until you get quite close it's hard to

00:27:51

really say so so yeah there was it was a

00:27:54

little bit of that going on for sure

00:27:55

yeah so you um

00:27:57

but so you have to go to Canada and then

00:28:00

um

00:28:01

I read her she declined really quickly

00:28:03

and then uh that's right like in a

00:28:05

matter of like weeks or something yeah

00:28:06

yeah no that's uh well months but yeah

00:28:09

right faster than expected

00:28:12

um so uh so it's a terrible thing right

00:28:14

it's very unfair

00:28:17

um but life's like that sometimes

00:28:19

yeah yeah I'm real sorry you had to go

00:28:21

through that it's a lot yeah me too

00:28:24

um

00:28:25

yeah

00:28:27

and

00:28:29

um

00:28:31

and I can't there's one more thing I

00:28:33

wanted to ask about with this sure

00:28:35

um so she did she um I read something

00:28:38

she recorded a DVD for each of you three

00:28:40

boys oh yeah yeah yeah

00:28:42

um which is it like it's like the phone

00:28:43

box that sort of Ages this conversation

00:28:47

um so she a DVD what's on the DVD like a

00:28:50

repair apparently it's a message to my

00:28:52

future partner so I've I've heard that

00:28:54

DVDs don't keep that well so I better

00:28:56

find someone relatively soon I think I

00:28:59

think that the DVDs came well but

00:29:01

finding a player will be the difficult

00:29:02

thing so uh so you're like just a part

00:29:06

that you're seeing or the person you're

00:29:07

going to marry oh I think it's got to be

00:29:08

a bit more serious right right so you're

00:29:11

not just whipping it out on the first

00:29:12

date no no no no no the whole thing can

00:29:14

be worn out but right

00:29:17

I've never watched it so so but you um I

00:29:21

have your brothers seen theirs I assume

00:29:24

so but yeah it's not it's not a

00:29:26

conversation you've had no I don't want

00:29:28

to I don't want to spoiler alert have

00:29:31

you not watched it because like it's too

00:29:33

hard to watch or uh

00:29:35

I mean I'm thinking I'm trying to put

00:29:37

myself I'm probably projecting here but

00:29:39

if it was me I'd want to watch it

00:29:41

straight away I think it was it was

00:29:44

designed for a specific purpose and I

00:29:46

think it would be wrong to not use it

00:29:49

for that purpose so your brothers

00:29:50

haven't told you what what their message

00:29:52

is well no because then I have a spoiler

00:29:54

right right yeah but it's obviously like

00:29:56

a personalized message where she

00:29:57

obviously

00:29:59

I don't know anything about it yeah see

00:30:01

that's the thing and if I find out

00:30:03

anything I ruin it so it's only only

00:30:05

used for the actual purpose right but

00:30:06

I'm imagining it's like an instruction

00:30:08

manual and it's all very personalized so

00:30:10

it's not it's not three copies of the

00:30:12

one you know the one DVD we don't know

00:30:15

that's the most that's the most yeah if

00:30:17

the DVD is not rooted we'll find out

00:30:21

that's the most um

00:30:22

oh that's the most beautiful thing and

00:30:24

so you you don't like at what stage did

00:30:27

she do this like how close well pretty

00:30:30

close

00:30:31

um so it would have been in her final

00:30:33

months yeah

00:30:35

I reckon you just get you can't watch it

00:30:36

because it's too hard

00:30:38

um maybe maybe it's too hard to watch

00:30:41

alone so you know

00:30:49

so she never got to see you as a

00:30:50

politician or well no and she she

00:30:53

thought I was wasting my time with

00:30:54

action she's probably she's probably

00:30:56

right at the time

00:30:57

you wanted me to be an engineer right

00:30:59

you know a good respectable scientific

00:31:01

based career

00:31:04

um and then in a way she's probably

00:31:05

right but um no she she I mean she

00:31:08

didn't think actor was rescueable who

00:31:11

was it Rodney hiking or no is it way way

00:31:13

well she yeah Rodney would have been the

00:31:15

leader when she died Rocking Around in

00:31:16

the Yellow Jacket yeah yeah so she I

00:31:19

don't think I think I think if she was

00:31:22

alive now she would be pleased that it's

00:31:25

I managed I've managed to resurrect it

00:31:27

beyond what seemed possible then but at

00:31:30

that time she was pretty dark on the

00:31:32

whole process it was fair to say

00:31:35

um what was her sort of um political

00:31:37

leanings

00:31:39

I think she'd be on the right

00:31:41

um

00:31:42

possibly an act voter

00:31:45

um I think her values aligned with act

00:31:47

whether she would have probably

00:31:49

indicates whether actor had reached its

00:31:52

full potential at that point

00:31:54

um I would say that

00:31:56

um you know now someone like her whose

00:31:59

fundamental story is about making a

00:32:01

difference despite the odds uh you know

00:32:04

not making excuses but taking initiative

00:32:06

I think I think she would be an ex voter

00:32:08

now I can understand you know and that

00:32:11

and that period She might not have been

00:32:13

because I have been 99 of the country

00:32:15

weren't yeah so and and before

00:32:19

um before she passed she she a sister

00:32:22

and another friend and uh she sort of

00:32:25

recruited them and basically said you

00:32:26

know make sure you you look after my

00:32:28

three boys even though you're all

00:32:30

essentially men at that point well yeah

00:32:32

well yes and no I mean you think about a

00:32:34

19 year old

00:32:36

um he still had a lot of growing up yeah

00:32:38

one point they're quite happy to send

00:32:40

them off to a fight in foreign countries

00:32:42

but now they require a bit more cotton

00:32:43

wool that is the state of 19 year old

00:32:48

um but so yeah that looks the elements

00:32:50

of Truth on that and and both um Nicola

00:32:52

and and Penny have who have been have

00:32:56

really uh followed that through so we're

00:32:57

really lucky to have them in our lives

00:32:59

all three of us so one of them says

00:33:00

sister who's the The Other Woman and the

00:33:02

other one's her best friend at High

00:33:03

School

00:33:04

man that's so nice and and uh but yeah

00:33:06

they've kept their promise with all

00:33:07

three of you guys uh yeah yeah I think

00:33:09

that's I think they have and that's

00:33:11

that's quite a sweet thing and it

00:33:12

certainly um you know a lot of people

00:33:14

really appreciated that um including

00:33:17

they they came and they told me later

00:33:20

they they came to the first um episode

00:33:23

of Dancing With the Stars they were in

00:33:25

the audience live and they said they

00:33:27

were they were they came because they

00:33:28

wanted to be there when they got voted

00:33:30

off

00:33:49

what does that relationship look like

00:33:51

they just they text once in a while and

00:33:53

just I mean I suppose you don't really

00:33:55

need them now but it's well they're good

00:33:57

I mean I'm very bad at cooking I mean my

00:34:00

my kpi for cooking is not killing anyone

00:34:03

and um so they they sometimes give me

00:34:06

food which is good

00:34:08

um and and and and have me over for

00:34:10

dinner which is really nice of them too

00:34:13

so I sometimes invite them over but they

00:34:15

always say oh no no just come to me I

00:34:17

said okay well it's fine possibly from

00:34:19

last time yeah so when um like Wendy

00:34:22

when do you miss your mum the most these

00:34:24

days is it things like um election night

00:34:26

and uh I I when the when the right to

00:34:29

die bill came through which was like

00:34:30

your sort of child is it is it occasions

00:34:34

like that what is that

00:34:35

um well it's a shame that that she

00:34:37

didn't get to see that um you know what

00:34:41

I was choosing to do that she didn't

00:34:43

support worked out better than she

00:34:44

thought so that's a real shame and some

00:34:46

of those events you know probably good

00:34:49

good examples

00:34:51

um but I I think it's more just that you

00:34:54

don't have someone to talk to and I

00:34:56

think everyone that loses someone thinks

00:34:58

this you know be nice to have a person

00:35:00

to talk to about whatever

00:35:03

um at different times and they're not

00:35:05

particularly you know special times

00:35:07

they're just any kinds of time that

00:35:09

things are happening you wish you could

00:35:10

talk to someone so or a particular

00:35:12

person yeah yeah oh thanks for being so

00:35:14

open about that well one thing um one

00:35:17

thing I overlooked um in your past life

00:35:19

you're a like a telephone counselor for

00:35:21

a kids line or youth line or something

00:35:22

yeah when was this like a university job

00:35:24

or no no no no so kids line was was an

00:35:28

amazing service that they started it

00:35:29

back in 88. and the concept was that

00:35:33

they would take callers

00:35:35

who were sort of 7 to 13.

00:35:39

um and then they would train up people

00:35:41

they call Buddies so technically not

00:35:43

counselors but buddies who were sixth

00:35:46

and seventh forms which translates to

00:35:48

year 12 or 13. so they'd take about 80

00:35:51

buddies out of high schools near by

00:35:55

and then they'd take us away on camps

00:35:59

and do training and you know words that

00:36:01

connect and how to ask open question

00:36:03

versus close questions and and basically

00:36:05

you'd go and do a shift for two hours

00:36:07

after school and there'd be maybe half a

00:36:10

dozen and you know half a dozen phones

00:36:12

and

00:36:13

um Hey Joe hey job or volunteer a

00:36:14

volunteer yeah and kids would kids would

00:36:16

ring up and say you know I'm being

00:36:18

bullied and you'd say okay well and then

00:36:20

you'd sort of have a strategy of letting

00:36:22

them talk about it and then suggesting

00:36:24

like who's your favorite what's your

00:36:26

favorite subject because their favorite

00:36:27

subject is usually your favorite teacher

00:36:29

who you're most likely to talk to and

00:36:31

try and get them to rehearse a

00:36:32

conversation and go through and you know

00:36:34

find support or you know rationalize

00:36:36

their problem or whatever so it was a

00:36:39

was a really neat thing because the

00:36:41

people that did it as volunteers were

00:36:43

fantastic and quite a few of them remain

00:36:46

really close friends I stormed one this

00:36:48

morning actually

00:36:50

um and um the other part of it was that

00:36:54

um it um gave a lot of skills and the

00:36:57

funny thing about up to you personally

00:36:59

yeah and the funny thing is

00:37:02

um politicians are known for talking

00:37:04

but if you actually think about the job

00:37:06

of being a representative so an Epsom I

00:37:09

represent about 70 000 people and

00:37:11

there's one of me so really you should

00:37:14

be doing 70 000 times more listening

00:37:16

than talking now obviously that's not

00:37:18

possible but um

00:37:20

you know the the

00:37:23

um you need what 20 years for every one

00:37:26

day of talking but putting that aside

00:37:28

you know about putting but putting that

00:37:30

aside how long have you been in politics

00:37:32

you would have yet to have your first

00:37:33

talking about I wouldn't be able to say

00:37:34

anything people would be like well we

00:37:36

keep telling them stuff but we have no

00:37:37

idea

00:37:40

yeah exactly yeah

00:37:43

um but um but in any case

00:37:46

um you you know we we um so those were

00:37:50

those were actually really useful skills

00:37:52

um so so it was a very cool charity and

00:37:54

you know the real tragedy of it when I

00:37:57

um when I did Dancing with the Stars I I

00:37:59

actually gave all the fees and money

00:38:01

raised by the ticks and all that that

00:38:03

gave all that to to kids line and then a

00:38:06

year later it wound up and part of the

00:38:09

problem and the funny thing is it's

00:38:10

probably never been needed more than now

00:38:12

yeah and and you know it goes back to

00:38:14

the thing we were saying a bit earlier

00:38:16

part of the reason was that under health

00:38:19

and safety rules they found it was

00:38:21

unfair to expose young people to other

00:38:24

young people's problems because they

00:38:25

might not be able to handle it and and

00:38:28

so that's that's part of the I mean

00:38:30

that's not there were various issues a

00:38:31

big issue was that a big issue was

00:38:33

texting so kids didn't want to talk on

00:38:35

the phone kind of screwed the whole

00:38:36

thing but but part of the issue was that

00:38:39

they couldn't actually get the the six

00:38:41

and seventh formers to to be the

00:38:42

councilors

00:38:44

um because they had a duty of care to

00:38:46

keep them safe so it's okay that kids

00:38:49

who are 10 are so screwed up they don't

00:38:51

know what to say or who to call or who

00:38:53

to talk to but

00:38:55

um our laws and our regulations are so

00:38:57

crazy now that that you couldn't it's

00:38:59

actually illegal for kids to help other

00:39:00

kids insane that is dumb how is it

00:39:03

different to um like the school system

00:39:05

we have a seventh former that gets

00:39:06

paired up with like a third form or

00:39:07

whatever you know some sort of school

00:39:08

buddy system well and in that instance

00:39:11

that I mean each yeah anyway yeah each

00:39:14

boss has got to make their own decision

00:39:16

in that case the principal would have to

00:39:17

decide if they were you know being a

00:39:19

good person conducting a business

00:39:20

undertaking but anyway

00:39:21

um so so you you did that do you feel

00:39:23

ironic now that you're in one of the one

00:39:25

of the one of the work environments

00:39:26

that's most right life with bullying

00:39:28

around

00:39:29

politics that's a nasty business eh it

00:39:33

doesn't it doesn't have to be yeah but

00:39:35

it just is yeah

00:39:37

I I don't really understand it

00:39:40

um I've had an odd introduction to

00:39:42

politics that I started off it was just

00:39:44

me for six years

00:39:45

so I got the opportunity to start a a

00:39:48

clean slate and when

00:39:51

um we got 10 MPS and a chief executive

00:39:54

of big bank said to me oh it's going to

00:39:56

be bloody difficult I said mate

00:39:57

tell me you wouldn't take the chance to

00:40:00

wipe a clean slate and start the culture

00:40:02

of your bank all over again and they

00:40:04

said actually yeah okay fair enough

00:40:06

that's a good point so we've done a

00:40:09

whole lot of stuff like for example

00:40:11

Parliament has a rabbit Warren and it

00:40:14

has all these offices and peers a big

00:40:17

office in a little office one MP one

00:40:18

staff member and that staff member has

00:40:21

to do everything for you but they don't

00:40:23

have the range of skills that you need

00:40:24

their social media Logistics

00:40:26

communication you know they don't have

00:40:28

all those skills

00:40:29

so as a result you've depended on this

00:40:32

one person you know it's scary and

00:40:33

unfamiliar environment and they take it

00:40:34

out on the one person and the rabbit

00:40:36

wire in their chamber of the Rabbit wine

00:40:39

um I said that's nuts so it has an open

00:40:41

plan

00:40:42

so you can't be bullying someone because

00:40:44

you'd be 20 people would see you doing

00:40:46

it

00:40:47

um now why every in the Parliamentary

00:40:50

service or the Parliamentary bureaucracy

00:40:51

are now trying to copy our model and

00:40:54

Shop it to our competitors because

00:40:56

that's just what bureaucrats do but

00:40:58

um you know these Innovations you can

00:41:00

make that that change that and then we

00:41:03

said well rather than one MP employing

00:41:05

one person we said well 10 MPS are going

00:41:07

to employ 20 people

00:41:09

um so that you've got five different

00:41:12

teams with different skills that you can

00:41:13

go to so you've got multiple

00:41:15

relationships so we've just done things

00:41:17

that you can innovate you can change

00:41:18

this right right yeah

00:41:20

um now let's talk about some of the

00:41:22

viral stuff uh first of all do you do

00:41:24

right you you you're or them in the ACT

00:41:27

account in your account is um full of

00:41:29

good you do good memes is that you or is

00:41:32

it a social media person and

00:41:34

um some of them are my ideas some of

00:41:36

them aren't but the way that it works is

00:41:39

that um we get uh you know a good group

00:41:43

of people we create a good environment

00:41:45

where good people want to work and then

00:41:46

we make them happy working there and

00:41:49

some of the best stuff just happened you

00:41:51

know like stuff just emerges out of

00:41:53

unexpected circumstances and so there's

00:41:56

no magic we don't pay a person with

00:41:58

amazing skills to specifically do that

00:42:01

um you know we don't sort of say these

00:42:02

are your kpis

00:42:04

um if you try and make it a good place

00:42:06

to be good people come people have good

00:42:08

ideas and then it just sort of happens

00:42:10

organically so and that's why I say I

00:42:12

you know you say it's a place of

00:42:13

terrible bullying it doesn't have to be

00:42:15

yeah no I I suppose I was meaning rather

00:42:17

than behind the scenes more politician

00:42:19

to politician I think Winston Peters

00:42:21

like he's um he's a he said some

00:42:23

terribly nasty things about you and

00:42:25

others over the years even right down to

00:42:27

like um one one that stands Springs to

00:42:30

mind is um you know him uh criticizing

00:42:33

Simon bridges in the way he said China

00:42:35

like uh which is basically a speech

00:42:37

impediment right yeah but then I just I

00:42:40

just look at the numbers and you know

00:42:42

there's there's no politician in New

00:42:43

Zealand that has a more negative image

00:42:46

and that the polling is you know I mean

00:42:49

should have hired those numbers I'd get

00:42:51

another job you mentioned the [ __ ] thing

00:42:53

before

00:42:54

um so this was um this was when John Key

00:42:57

was looking at changing the flag and the

00:42:59

call was that the the fern on there and

00:43:02

you can you remember what you said well

00:43:04

yeah because they I was an armor was

00:43:07

Anne Romaine a red peaker I mean we

00:43:09

should have had red Peak as our flag

00:43:11

it's much better I thought the kiwi with

00:43:13

the laser eyes well okay you're like yes

00:43:16

ideally that one but if we couldn't have

00:43:17

that one then it would have to be okay

00:43:20

um red Peak and um

00:43:22

you know but I also was doing the thing

00:43:25

which I think is a bit Neff but a lot of

00:43:27

politicians used to do it where they

00:43:28

have the silver Fern on their lapel so

00:43:31

then some Juno asked me well you know

00:43:34

you how can you support red Peak you

00:43:35

clearly like the silver Fern because

00:43:37

you're wearing one

00:43:38

and I said yeah well look the French

00:43:40

love the [ __ ] but yeah it doesn't mean

00:43:42

they've got a rooster on their flag but

00:43:44

you don't actually have to have every

00:43:47

National logo on your flag the French

00:43:50

for instance love the [ __ ]

00:43:52

um

00:43:56

all right let's just start that again

00:43:58

and

00:44:01

um and then I I'd actually I actually

00:44:03

had a series of them because I thought

00:44:04

this argument might happen I said look

00:44:06

you know the IR the British don't have a

00:44:08

English don't ever Rose the Irish don't

00:44:10

have a harp you know you don't actually

00:44:11

have to have every single logo on your

00:44:13

flag

00:44:14

um that's all I was trying to say but of

00:44:16

course come on you knew what you were

00:44:18

doing right that was intentional totally

00:44:21

innocent really totally understand it

00:44:23

didn't it wouldn't I wouldn't dare say

00:44:25

such a profane thing actually we'll do

00:44:27

half a dozen journalists waiting with

00:44:29

microphones I mean yeah the the

00:44:30

soundbite that was used in the media

00:44:31

which is like 10 seconds or whatever

00:44:33

um that doesn't paint the full picture

00:44:36

but on YouTube you can watch the whole

00:44:37

thing afterwards and you you do struggle

00:44:39

to compose yourself after that which

00:44:41

made me think

00:44:42

um okay benefit of the doubt it was

00:44:43

accidental but then too good to be true

00:44:47

yeah but I mean are you being completely

00:44:49

honest of course of a politician

00:44:52

but of course look it it happened right

00:44:55

so if it it must be possible and if it

00:45:00

did happen however unlikely it seems it

00:45:02

did happen so okay so there was another

00:45:05

one

00:45:05

um

00:45:06

you were interviewed one summer years

00:45:08

and years ago by a staff reporter and

00:45:11

she asked what you did over summer and

00:45:13

you said Netflix and chill

00:45:15

um knowing knowing full well that it was

00:45:17

a reference to Casual

00:45:21

sexual right what were we trolling

00:45:23

people well it was but she well she was

00:45:27

out it was pretty boring interview and

00:45:28

she was asking what are you you know

00:45:30

good old Joe Moyer she's a good Journal

00:45:33

actually but um she's boring the state

00:45:35

yeah yeah yeah so well in that interview

00:45:37

she was but um what do you do for your

00:45:40

summer and I'm like you know to be

00:45:42

honest everyone wants to know all these

00:45:44

questions about Paul what do you do if

00:45:45

you're somewhere I would say well I

00:45:46

don't know like you know if you go and

00:45:48

get a mechanic you just wanted to fix

00:45:49

their car you're not like oh do you like

00:45:50

Boogie boarding or something who cares

00:45:52

you know but if you're a politician you

00:45:53

have to tell it tell them that too and

00:45:55

lastly what's your summer must read must

00:45:58

listen or must watch

00:46:02

just say Netflix and chill

00:46:10

yeah because most people have no idea

00:46:14

um well I didn't realize she she was

00:46:17

recording it and she she put the audio

00:46:19

on um so um what can you say

00:46:25

um but you you know what you're doing

00:46:26

like if I reckon you know what you're

00:46:28

doing it's calculated yeah there's a

00:46:30

degree of calculation to it surely

00:46:33

um I think there's a there's a degree of

00:46:35

sometimes you just got to have a bit of

00:46:37

fun yeah is that what you what happened

00:46:39

with the my there's a Miley Cyrus thing

00:46:40

as well that you were asked in an

00:46:41

interview someone you really admire and

00:46:43

I suppose people were expecting you to

00:46:44

say I don't know like Obama or Churchill

00:46:47

or someone but you said Miley Cyrus and

00:46:49

then went into a like a big explanation

00:46:51

about the the what she's been through

00:46:54

and how she is as a performer and that

00:46:56

was trolling right well there's a few

00:46:58

I've done where the explanation was was

00:47:00

made out of song titles I don't know if

00:47:03

it was one of those but I did actually

00:47:04

walk into a Miley Cyrus party while I

00:47:07

was door knocking but what's a Miley

00:47:09

Cyrus party well I don't really know to

00:47:12

be honest but they were all dressed as

00:47:13

her

00:47:15

um what what what phrase what what phase

00:47:18

Miley were they dressed as

00:47:20

I was about 2015. not the wrecking ball

00:47:23

face right when she was naked I think

00:47:24

she wasn't to the wrecking no they

00:47:26

weren't naked well not much so

00:47:31

um here not not really sure to be honest

00:47:33

I think that Miley Cyrus uh is someone I

00:47:36

can admire because she's good at her job

00:47:39

I mean her job is to get out uh get

00:47:41

publicity and most importantly sell

00:47:43

records uh and she's smashed so many

00:47:47

um records or broken so many records at

00:47:49

selling records uh at such a young age I

00:47:53

think you've got to admire someone on

00:47:55

top of their game like that and then

00:47:57

there was um this may have been pre or

00:47:59

these things an awkward series of like

00:48:01

Facebook videos where

00:48:03

um you started each of them by saying hi

00:48:05

and someone turned that into a into a

00:48:07

montage

00:48:08

um because you're high was exactly the

00:48:11

same in all of them same infection same

00:48:14

delivery same no no no that was all that

00:48:16

was all and that this was we didn't know

00:48:19

what we were doing so what happened was

00:48:21

this has been I first started standing

00:48:23

it was all one video

00:48:24

and when I first started standing in

00:48:27

2014 well wait it was all one video I

00:48:29

wasn't like a oh yeah a montage but in

00:48:31

2017 election our campaign team took it

00:48:33

off off YouTube so it's hard to get a

00:48:35

copy now but

00:48:37

um oh I found a thing on YouTube

00:48:38

yesterday someone's turned it into like

00:48:40

a 12-minute montage oh wow so it's you

00:48:42

saying hi over and over again for 12

00:48:44

minutes yeah so what was the story

00:48:45

behind that

00:48:47

so I had a maximum Canada who was

00:48:49

running for the conservative party up

00:48:51

there and I saw head Mater

00:48:53

video of you know this is who I am and

00:48:56

what I do so I thought

00:48:58

I should make a video like that

00:49:00

so I got this guy who actually had

00:49:04

trained as part of a Soviet film unit

00:49:06

and someone else is a fairly well-known

00:49:09

comedian who may or may not have been

00:49:10

taking the fish out of me but between

00:49:12

them they they wanted me to do this hi

00:49:14

hi hi hi hi I'm David Seymour and if you

00:49:19

live in Epsom Mount Eden parnella

00:49:21

remuera I'd like to be your MP hi hi hi

00:49:25

hi hi

00:49:27

hi I'm David Seymour and if you live in

00:49:30

ipsum Mount Eden hannel or remuera I'd

00:49:34

like to be your MP so I think it's only

00:49:36

fair I should introduce myself anyway so

00:49:39

we we made this video and the the the

00:49:41

the the editing was just out there man

00:49:43

like it was like sort of Soviet

00:49:46

avant-garde type you know crazy like you

00:49:50

know communist art

00:49:51

um and then the comedians sort of take

00:49:53

on it was it was pretty amazing and the

00:49:56

thing got like 50 000 views um in fact I

00:50:00

thought the first thing I realized it

00:50:02

was going viral someone sent me a stick

00:50:05

saying

00:50:06

um it doesn't matter what we still love

00:50:09

you and support you

00:50:11

um

00:50:12

so what the [ __ ] have you been drinking

00:50:15

so anyway then I found out this thing

00:50:18

was going absolutely nuts and you know

00:50:21

50 000 views on YouTube in 2014 because

00:50:23

there's inflation is everywhere

00:50:25

including on the internet so those are

00:50:26

huge understood being in New Zealand uh

00:50:28

so it was pretty but it was actually a

00:50:30

fantastic thing because it wasn't

00:50:31

intended to be funny it just was

00:50:34

um and of course it got me huge exposure

00:50:37

because the the tweeting classes the you

00:50:40

know journalists and politics all saw

00:50:42

this and it was all hilarious the latest

00:50:44

act thing

00:50:45

um so they all came and spent time with

00:50:48

me campaigning in Epsom so it just it

00:50:51

couldn't have dreamed better but none of

00:50:53

it was intentional so you sort of from

00:50:55

the school that um like any publicity is

00:50:57

good publicity like it's better that

00:50:58

people are talking about you than not in

00:51:00

terms of these things of a few

00:51:01

politicians that have just proven that

00:51:03

yeah

00:51:04

um look I think I think the thing is

00:51:06

like remember I suppose what I mean is I

00:51:09

mean yeah like you can think of like

00:51:11

David Benson Pope back in the day

00:51:13

Pokemon tennis balls on people's mouths

00:51:15

something like this where people are

00:51:17

laughing at you rather than with you

00:51:18

yeah

00:51:19

um well

00:51:21

look the way I look at some of the best

00:51:23

advice I ever got was from a comms guy

00:51:25

in Canada when I worked up there and um

00:51:28

he said he said look you know because of

00:51:31

the internet you can't pretend anymore

00:51:33

because the information the cycle is so

00:51:37

short the information travels so fast

00:51:39

that

00:51:40

um you know you will be found out so

00:51:42

just be authentic I have a terrible

00:51:44

memory so I don't pretend to do anything

00:51:46

I don't tell any lies because I if you

00:51:48

tell lies you've got to remember what

00:51:49

you said

00:51:50

um so it is and the world's I think

00:51:53

everything's bloody hard and complicated

00:51:55

enough so I just come back to a few

00:51:57

basic principles that basically I'm here

00:52:00

to try and shift you know activity out

00:52:03

of the government column and into you

00:52:06

know business and Civil Society you know

00:52:09

families and clubs and Charities and

00:52:11

people trying to help each other

00:52:12

voluntarily that's good people in

00:52:14

business trying to make a product people

00:52:16

wanted a price they can afford that's

00:52:18

good government there's some stuff

00:52:20

government can do not as much as it's

00:52:22

trying right now it's a pretty simple

00:52:24

mission right yeah that way you don't

00:52:26

have to remember a lot and that suits me

00:52:29

um

00:52:30

that's probably a good time to move on

00:52:32

to Dancing with the Stars oh always a

00:52:34

good time do you um you regret that or

00:52:36

no no regrets is that another thing like

00:52:37

these viral clips that was good an

00:52:40

example of any publicity to a degree is

00:52:42

good publicity

00:52:43

I just say one thing that um that I

00:52:47

think is probably

00:52:49

um like if I could just tell you one

00:52:51

thing I've learned from nearly nine

00:52:53

years in Parliament that you wouldn't

00:52:55

have thought is that none of it is as

00:52:59

orchestrated or complicated or clever as

00:53:02

people think like people think they must

00:53:04

be amazing people like pulling the

00:53:06

strings and it's all part of some grand

00:53:08

plan and you get these people say oh you

00:53:10

know the world economic Forum like

00:53:12

controlling everybody I'm like look mate

00:53:14

I got good news and bad news the good

00:53:16

news is the government's not capable of

00:53:18

participating in a global conspiracy the

00:53:21

bad news is they're not very good at

00:53:22

health education or building roads

00:53:24

either

00:53:25

um so you know most of it is is just

00:53:29

people winging it and you go it's true

00:53:31

and and this is what life is like I mean

00:53:33

you know when you're a kid you think

00:53:34

your parents are amazing and then you

00:53:36

start to get a few doubts and then you

00:53:37

think at least your teachers know you're

00:53:38

talking about and if you've ever gone

00:53:40

back and met one of your teachers some

00:53:41

of them are very impressive but some of

00:53:42

them are like Jesus yeah you were in

00:53:45

charge of my learning for a whole year

00:53:46

it's amazing I got here

00:53:48

um and then you think oh well people

00:53:49

politicians in Parliament well they must

00:53:51

know what they're doing I mean look how

00:53:52

much they get paid and they're in charge

00:53:54

and they vote and they go on TV I mean

00:53:55

they must know what they're doing and

00:53:57

then you get there and you're like far

00:53:59

out I'm just glad we still have running

00:54:01

water

00:54:02

but then you think oh well the ministers

00:54:04

the most senior ones they must know but

00:54:07

no and then

00:54:09

um I used to think that the Prime

00:54:10

Minister but then Jacinda became the

00:54:11

Prime Minister I thought you just need

00:54:13

to be good at Instagram so you know and

00:54:16

this is and it's the same with the with

00:54:18

the media I mean you think oh these must

00:54:19

be really intelligent people committed

00:54:21

to the truth really great at processing

00:54:23

information and and actually most of

00:54:26

them are just kids that like to gossip

00:54:28

at high school and now they do it for

00:54:30

for a living

00:54:31

um so you know that's your reality

00:54:34

um

00:54:35

and um you know the reason I I give you

00:54:38

that Prelude I just I do actually it's

00:54:40

it's interesting that we put far too

00:54:43

much trust in governance we we think

00:54:44

that it's more clever than it could

00:54:46

possibly be and I understand why people

00:54:48

think that but you know if you've ever

00:54:50

had a doubt that your parents or your

00:54:51

teachers or anyone else knew everything

00:54:52

maybe apply that to politicians too

00:54:55

the second thing is actually answer your

00:54:57

question about Dancing with the Stars

00:54:59

well it was as simple as it was November

00:55:02

2018 I just become the lowest polling

00:55:06

act leader in history which is pretty

00:55:08

[ __ ] good effort like I mean you know

00:55:10

it was good at low polling at that point

00:55:12

is it devastating for you at that point

00:55:14

you're thinking [ __ ] I'm done with

00:55:16

politics yeah you say you're pretty rude

00:55:18

at whatever happens and then you just

00:55:20

think well okay so how often in your

00:55:23

life just for for most people

00:55:25

what are the chances that you'd actually

00:55:27

get invited to be in a live televised

00:55:31

dancing contest like that doesn't happen

00:55:34

most of the time in most people's lives

00:55:36

but it did happen to me so you'd have to

00:55:39

be hell of an arrogant to to turn that

00:55:42

down I thought it was a great it'd be

00:55:44

wildly exciting you knew you'd be

00:55:46

eliminated on the first round right but

00:55:48

right but as it turned out well yeah it

00:55:51

went through nine rounds but I feel I

00:55:53

feel like there was a like a vote for

00:55:55

the worst or vote for the entertainment

00:55:56

value sort of thing you must you must

00:55:58

know you weren't you weren't great I was

00:56:00

the worst dancer probably not just not

00:56:02

just in that season and not just in New

00:56:05

Zealand but probably if there was an

00:56:06

All-Star Dancing with the Stars yeah

00:56:08

like Global you know like I mean it's

00:56:11

been going since 1994. it's probably the

00:56:13

worst ever but

00:56:15

um you know nevertheless the other thing

00:56:18

I learned pretty quickly is that it

00:56:20

wasn't about dancing

00:56:23

um of course not you know because the

00:56:24

entertainment show because they say they

00:56:26

say uh you know it's a combination of uh

00:56:29

of your of your ticks and the judge's

00:56:31

scores but they never tell you quite how

00:56:33

they add them together and being a

00:56:35

electrical engineer I actually asked I

00:56:37

said so just get out of Interest I'd be

00:56:39

really Keen to see the the mathematical

00:56:41

formula yeah I feel like there's a lot

00:56:42

of producers discretion yeah they just

00:56:45

kept me on the shoulder and said you'll

00:56:46

be fine

00:56:48

I was like oh okay so um so then I

00:56:53

realized that really it was about the

00:56:55

numbers but it was about the ratings and

00:56:56

we we needed to make sure that we were

00:56:59

compelling enough for people to keep

00:57:00

watching and and people did keep

00:57:03

watching and people did keep texting in

00:57:04

for us and we did you know you can see

00:57:06

the amount of money we raised we've got

00:57:07

a lot of ticks

00:57:08

um but the reason for all that was

00:57:10

simply that

00:57:12

um you know we were taking on challenges

00:57:16

that everyone faced and and doing it

00:57:18

pretty well you I mean you

00:57:21

but I still learned to all my steps and

00:57:24

I actually did do all my steps right

00:57:25

they're just not really with the kind of

00:57:28

style just flow or rhythmia right yeah

00:57:30

but I did actually learn and do each

00:57:32

step

00:57:33

um and we got bagged a lot and we

00:57:36

basically said to people well actually

00:57:39

we're doing our best we've got a right

00:57:40

to be here what's your problem and I

00:57:42

think for people that are being born

00:57:44

begged a lot by like um everyone

00:57:46

reviewers social media the judges I mean

00:57:49

Steve bronius wrote about me every week

00:57:52

for about two months the Creature from

00:57:54

the actual Lagoon and he he was

00:57:57

campaigning to get me voted off the show

00:57:58

and once he realized he'd lost that one

00:58:00

he started campaigning for me to win to

00:58:03

destroy the show forever

00:58:11

I think that's a bit demeaning to be

00:58:13

honest

00:58:14

um so we faced all that but as we said

00:58:18

to people look

00:58:20

this is you know the people are being

00:58:22

bullied in a variety of contexts you

00:58:24

know their work and their and their

00:58:26

school what when their friendships a

00:58:28

relationship whatever no we said to all

00:58:31

these people

00:58:32

um actually you know what we get that

00:58:35

too and we just carry dust ourselves off

00:58:37

and carry on because everyone's got a

00:58:39

right to to be them and to do their best

00:58:41

and I think that's what it was really

00:58:43

about it was about character and

00:58:45

adversity so once we figured that out it

00:58:48

was actually quite good the dancing was

00:58:50

still hard but the rest of it was pretty

00:58:51

easy and I was just lucky I had an

00:58:53

amazing partner yeah yeah that's right

00:58:56

yeah I'm going to it

00:58:57

next month you're still in touch she

00:59:00

actually invited me to a wedding scene

00:59:01

she must have been like when the dancers

00:59:03

find out who they're paired with and you

00:59:05

do the first thing

00:59:07

she told me that yeah well it sort of

00:59:10

helped because it helped you get time

00:59:12

off work because her boss didn't think

00:59:13

she'd be gone well she's a teacher yeah

00:59:15

yeah yeah yeah yeah no no she um

00:59:18

apparently all the dancers were like

00:59:19

look I hope get that guy

00:59:21

but they get paid week by week so they

00:59:25

obviously want to be paired with a

00:59:26

dancer that's going to go unless they

00:59:28

got me then they just didn't care about

00:59:29

the pay anyway they wanted to get voted

00:59:30

off but no but as it turned out it

00:59:32

became a very uh powerful

00:59:35

um Alliance and she was the only person

00:59:37

I think I mean there's a lot of good pro

00:59:39

dancers there but she was the only one

00:59:42

with the strength and conviction to make

00:59:43

that work so it was lucky I we were both

00:59:46

Lucky on that sense and it worked out

00:59:48

really well was she frustrated with you

00:59:49

early on you've also got a real close

00:59:51

friendship now and it ended up pretty

00:59:52

well finishing fifth but early on yeah I

00:59:56

mean I'm guessing you wouldn't have been

00:59:57

as available as some of the other people

00:59:59

it's like my ex-wife JJ did it and

01:00:01

Mike's co-host um Clint Randall he he

01:00:03

did and they were they were dancing like

01:00:04

seven or eight hours a day yeah I mean

01:00:06

crazy time when I when I in in my season

01:00:10

um the the only only me Chris Harry

01:00:14

Chris Harris who's a legend really um

01:00:17

but Harry

01:00:18

um he actually had a job

01:00:21

um and and I obviously had a job

01:00:23

um but most people no disrespect to

01:00:25

radio hosts you know they they had you

01:00:29

know three hours on here and some prep

01:00:31

but they they wouldn't have maybe five

01:00:33

days a week but they weren't doing you

01:00:35

know a job that's often 24 7 and fitting

01:00:38

on their practice so so that's you know

01:00:39

okay there's a bit of a bit of a

01:00:41

stability

01:00:42

yeah but I mean you know but so so look

01:00:46

there was um it was it was well worth

01:00:48

doing in the end and the other thing it

01:00:51

did for me is it made me really positive

01:00:52

about New Zealand because

01:00:55

um you know people say This Tall Poppy

01:00:57

and I think there is a dark underbelly

01:00:59

to this country but we also showed that

01:01:01

if you just broke through the barrier if

01:01:04

you be yourself and back yourself then

01:01:06

actually people do want that and they

01:01:08

will back you and that was pretty cool

01:01:10

that it really changed my view of New

01:01:13

Zealand for the better yeah do you think

01:01:15

tall poppy is still a big issue here

01:01:16

totally yeah 100 it's it's the biggest

01:01:19

problem we Face terrible is it just is

01:01:22

it just a kiwi thing or an australasian

01:01:24

thing or is it a universal thing oh

01:01:25

Aussies are totally different you know I

01:01:27

mean the the Aussie I mean there's a lot

01:01:29

of things I dislike about them and

01:01:31

obviously and I just just before I say

01:01:33

this say look there's a wide there's

01:01:35

some complete [ __ ] kiwis and there's

01:01:36

some wonderful Aussies and vice versa

01:01:38

but if you just take the sort of average

01:01:40

stereotype there's there's some things

01:01:42

that to really dislike about the

01:01:45

Australian version of that I mean the

01:01:46

attitude to race for instance is just 20

01:01:49

years behind us at any given time

01:01:50

however there's also some wonderful

01:01:54

things about the Australians that are

01:01:56

positive they're competitive they they

01:01:58

believe and and that you can make a

01:01:59

difference in your own life

01:02:01

um and that's I think part of the reason

01:02:03

that they're dramatically wealthier

01:02:05

um there's other reasons too but but I

01:02:07

think that attitude does actually help

01:02:08

so and you see it when New Zealand just

01:02:11

try and do business over there you know

01:02:13

it's bloody difficult I mean Michael

01:02:14

Hill's done it good on him Legend most

01:02:17

people that have tried to succeed in

01:02:18

business in Australia have fired yeah

01:02:20

the warehouse failed quite drastically

01:02:21

yeah yeah yeah

01:02:24

um

01:02:25

they said the twerking thing who's on

01:02:27

dance with the stars who said he was

01:02:28

that Emilia's idea was that your idea

01:02:30

you twerked you wore like a fluoro

01:02:32

outfit and you twerked it got turned

01:02:33

into a gif I went viral it's probably on

01:02:36

YouTube now yeah um a memorable TV

01:02:38

moment well I think I think the show

01:02:40

tried to set us up that week

01:02:43

um because the song that we had uh was

01:02:46

actually

01:02:48

um you know I think it was pretty gross

01:02:49

Outlet outfits and the the Spandex and

01:02:53

all that and the song was I just want to

01:02:55

make you wet

01:02:57

um CNC music yeah they re they re-did it

01:03:00

as sweat but um Amelia was really pissed

01:03:04

off so we thought we're just going to go

01:03:05

hundies here she was pissed off why

01:03:07

because of the song Choices so it's not

01:03:09

well it's pretty I mean a lot of women

01:03:10

would be offended by by being major you

01:03:13

know publicly danced to that song

01:03:15

um and um

01:03:17

then um you know that was so that was a

01:03:20

that was a problem and our solution was

01:03:22

to go Handy's and overcome it and

01:03:24

there's also don't be susceptible to

01:03:26

flattery um because for the first and

01:03:28

last time of my life uh some of the

01:03:30

women on the show said you've got a

01:03:31

great butt never happened before since

01:03:34

was entirely designed to flare me into

01:03:36

doing it and

01:03:38

so that I took the bait and it was

01:03:41

probably the one time because remember I

01:03:42

had to I had to do enough to make it

01:03:46

um kind of appealing

01:03:49

um but but and keep us in the ratings

01:03:51

and keep us in the order in the show but

01:03:53

also not do so much that I've ruined my

01:03:55

chance having a future political career

01:03:58

the Member of Parliament for Epsom or is

01:04:01

it Miley Cyrus

01:04:02

[Music]

01:04:05

to confirm this is X leader David

01:04:08

Seymour last night Deep In His Latest

01:04:10

dancing with the star's routine one

01:04:13

heavy on twerking a racy dance move made

01:04:16

famous by singer Miley Cyrus the rules

01:04:19

of the competition say they give you an

01:04:21

outfit and a song and a and a style of

01:04:23

dance that off you go uh and I think we

01:04:26

did a pretty good job keeping it classy

01:04:27

under the circumstances well it's like

01:04:29

we were talking about before to a point

01:04:31

where no publicity is bad publicity

01:04:32

probably yeah did you a lot of good

01:04:34

really that was probably the one time

01:04:36

that maybe just went further than I

01:04:38

really needed to and

01:04:40

um you regret it uh yeah look I mean I

01:04:42

wouldn't say I regret it I'd say that's

01:04:44

a bit strong I'd say in a perfect world

01:04:46

would probably were to pull back from

01:04:48

that

01:04:49

um but you know we got it right most

01:04:50

weeks

01:04:51

um you know you get to get a few

01:04:53

mistakes on the big jobs so

01:04:55

um but yeah I mean they you know the TV

01:04:58

news would run that every time there was

01:05:00

a story about me for like for like two

01:05:02

years

01:05:04

um and it probably took a while to

01:05:05

overcome it um it was probably um yeah

01:05:08

funnily enough Rodney Hyde who was also

01:05:11

an act party leader didn't he drop his

01:05:12

dance palette yeah there was the clip

01:05:14

they used yeah the crystal yeah yeah yes

01:05:16

I I didn't do any lifts with Amelia and

01:05:18

I think she's probably appreciated that

01:05:20

yeah so were you guys um were you guys

01:05:22

seeing each other for a time or am I

01:05:23

making this up you weren't seeing each

01:05:24

other a lot a lot of people have rumored

01:05:26

that but right and you can understand

01:05:28

the holiday I thought you went to Fiji

01:05:29

or something afterwards uh well yeah we

01:05:31

we did go away but separate Bureau yeah

01:05:34

exactly and and people easily I think if

01:05:38

you haven't danced then people say but

01:05:42

actually it's just you have to be close

01:05:45

not just physically but emotionally

01:05:47

because it's it's you two against the

01:05:49

world

01:05:51

um so for like three months you sort of

01:05:53

fight the world together

01:05:55

um and most of the time the distance

01:05:57

between you is about 5 five millimeters

01:05:59

so you can understand if you've never

01:06:01

done it you'd be like oh wow but of

01:06:04

course um you know if you have danced

01:06:06

you know that it's just part of the game

01:06:08

if you're in a relationship you have to

01:06:09

have a very trusting partner wouldn't

01:06:10

you at home because it could be I mean

01:06:12

that that'd be hard like imagine you're

01:06:14

married and your your wife your

01:06:16

hypothetical wife's got a friend saying

01:06:17

oh God what about David and yeah it'd

01:06:20

have to be very very tough I think for

01:06:22

um your married couples yeah yeah

01:06:24

potentially I don't know

01:06:26

was there sexual chemistry with you guys

01:06:28

like early on and then that sort of

01:06:30

evaporates when you get to know each

01:06:32

other and

01:06:34

um like I said it's very intimate like

01:06:36

that yeah you make you meet someone in

01:06:38

your training and you're in each other's

01:06:39

faces no what's your reverse she'd been

01:06:42

doing her whole I mean she started that

01:06:43

I mean all those guys that are good like

01:06:45

Amelia and and the other thing I loved

01:06:48

about it was watching people like her

01:06:50

because they used to do dances for

01:06:51

display that were just the professionals

01:06:53

and when you watch how they dance like

01:06:55

it's it's amazing so so they learn a

01:06:58

routine so quickly as well oh yeah

01:07:00

because it's all just for them it's just

01:07:01

a bunch of modules that they've got down

01:07:03

here right so so they've all been doing

01:07:05

it since that's six so to them it's just

01:07:07

business as usual

01:07:08

um for me I was like wow

01:07:13

um but I I got used to that very quickly

01:07:15

so yeah it's just it it honestly is this

01:07:17

that the weirdness of dance yeah

01:07:20

um okay so you turned 40 this year yeah

01:07:22

well no I'm I refuse to acknowledge it

01:07:25

no I do middle of this year and you've

01:07:27

been um you've been the ACT leader for

01:07:29

five years now um how's the next 10

01:07:31

years no no no no longer than that so

01:07:33

I've since I was 31. also like nine

01:07:36

years yeah I didn't have nine years so

01:07:38

what are your what are your what are

01:07:40

your absolute goals in politics for like

01:07:42

what are your aspirations you want to be

01:07:43

ideally have a Winston situation and end

01:07:45

up like Deputy Prime Minister of the

01:07:47

selection what's

01:07:48

definitely not because

01:07:51

um you know the first thing you say is

01:07:52

what what position or what title do you

01:07:54

want I I'm not interested in a position

01:07:56

or title I mean anyone that thinks being

01:07:58

like a big wig in the government of New

01:08:00

Zealand is just delusional and I think

01:08:04

part of the reason I think that is you

01:08:05

know I lived in North America I lived in

01:08:07

Canada for five years there's like 60

01:08:09

States and provinces that are around the

01:08:12

same size sometimes much bigger than New

01:08:14

Zealand and they all have a government

01:08:16

and like if you meet someone and you're

01:08:18

like yeah I'm like from the government

01:08:19

of Colorado I'm really cool you just be

01:08:22

like you're a dick well you know New

01:08:24

Zealand I mean Colorado's got five

01:08:25

million people in New Zealand's Got five

01:08:26

million people you're still a [ __ ]

01:08:28

right so it's not about that

01:08:30

um but the doors that it could open

01:08:32

afterwards from holding one of those

01:08:34

High positions maybe but I just I mean I

01:08:37

don't know I haven't had a political

01:08:38

career and tried to find a job but

01:08:41

um oh yeah but

01:08:42

um you know I I guess

01:08:46

um you know if someone's hiring you for

01:08:49

your name or your title

01:08:50

what are you going to do the best advice

01:08:53

I'm I've talked to people about you know

01:08:55

what what if you do if you leave

01:08:56

politics because eventually I will I'm

01:08:57

not a lifer and I said look the best

01:08:59

advice I got from a chief executive a

01:09:01

big firm he said look you've got to make

01:09:03

sure you're in the scrum

01:09:05

uh you know actually doing some work

01:09:06

don't don't want some things you've got

01:09:07

a title on you I mean so I don't believe

01:09:09

in that I believe in being in the scrum

01:09:11

the second thing is so so that's not the

01:09:14

answer your question let me tell you

01:09:15

what is

01:09:17

um a couple of things I want one is I

01:09:20

want to turn act into a going concern

01:09:22

and by I mean

01:09:24

a party bigger than me that will Outlast

01:09:26

me so I can retire and go home cast my

01:09:29

vote and vote for a party that believes

01:09:32

in personal freedom uh that believes in

01:09:35

free markets and free Minds I'm a

01:09:37

capitalist but I'm also tolerant I'm not

01:09:39

interested in having the government you

01:09:41

know Chase around pregnant women trying

01:09:43

to stop them having abortions I'm not

01:09:45

interested in a government that tries to

01:09:47

regulate what you can say I'm not

01:09:49

interested in a government that tries to

01:09:51

impose one person's values on another

01:09:52

that's all crap in my mind but I'm also

01:09:55

not interested in a government tries to

01:09:56

regulate and take all your money because

01:09:58

I've seen how politicians use your money

01:10:00

and I think they should have a lot less

01:10:02

now you know it's very rare that there's

01:10:04

a party like that but I want to I want

01:10:06

to turn well act as that party and I

01:10:08

want to make it outlive me so I have

01:10:10

someone to vote for the rest of my life

01:10:11

so that's number one number two uh

01:10:15

before my own time comes and it will I

01:10:18

mean you know unless you're Saddam

01:10:20

Hussein well actually you can stick

01:10:22

again but yeah but yeah I mean your time

01:10:25

will come by your own choosing or look

01:10:28

you don't get to choosing politics right

01:10:30

you hope so and some people do but um

01:10:32

you just don't know what will happen

01:10:35

um so you know the other thing is I

01:10:38

there's a few policy things I think

01:10:40

education probably first and foremost I

01:10:42

don't think that we are transferring

01:10:45

enough Knowledge from one generation to

01:10:46

the next to maintain first world status

01:10:49

I mean kids coming out of school now and

01:10:52

this is you know measured objectively

01:10:54

know and can do far less in reading and

01:10:57

writing and maths and science than kids

01:11:00

coming out of school in the year 2000. I

01:11:02

mean how everything is we're used to

01:11:03

everything getting better and this is

01:11:04

really not good and I talk to people who

01:11:06

you know just had kids think about I'm

01:11:08

going to go to school because people

01:11:09

have got kids at school grandparents

01:11:11

basically anyone

01:11:13

is who's vaguely related to a kid at

01:11:16

school is really worried and so are a

01:11:17

lot of teachers so we've got to get our

01:11:20

respect back from the teaching

01:11:21

profession and I think with that game of

01:11:24

policy debate I mean basically

01:11:26

government needs to start saying these

01:11:29

are the non-negotiables that kids need

01:11:31

to achieve and then stop all the

01:11:33

bureaucracy and the middling and say

01:11:35

look we're actually going to have

01:11:36

respect for teachers and principals and

01:11:37

give them the flexibility to go and

01:11:39

achieve it that's in a nutshell what

01:11:41

needs to happen and and that's hard

01:11:43

because you're up against a big

01:11:44

bureaucracy who will try and outwit and

01:11:46

outsmart you but that's that's roughly

01:11:48

what we did with Charter Schools yeah

01:11:49

and I see more of that theme and I think

01:11:51

it's it's the most important thing we

01:11:53

can do for what 30 years time so New

01:11:56

Zealand in 2053

01:11:58

what's the thing this year that we'll

01:12:00

wish we did and that is make sure that

01:12:02

we have the most educated population

01:12:03

because then every other problem we face

01:12:05

and who knows what the problems will be

01:12:07

in 2053 people are well educated we can

01:12:09

deal with it so that's education form

01:12:11

that's a big thing I think also

01:12:14

um

01:12:14

I think we have to have a another mini

01:12:18

revolution around the way that we make

01:12:20

laws and regulate you know too many

01:12:22

people spend too much time waiting for

01:12:25

permission to be able to do stuff I met

01:12:28

a young person recently she's a dentist

01:12:32

she's starting her own Clinic she's

01:12:34

learning about business she's hiring

01:12:36

people she's working out you know who to

01:12:37

hire who to trust how it all works but

01:12:40

the problems that she's had even just

01:12:44

um getting permission to remove a

01:12:46

chimney from the you know because

01:12:48

because this brick chimney is like New

01:12:49

Zealand's history like if this goes we

01:12:52

won't know who we are anymore and it's

01:12:54

just [ __ ] right I mean it's just

01:12:56

it's unbelievable yeah um and it's like

01:12:58

when you go to Europe and you see

01:13:00

churches over there and you're like oh

01:13:01

the cathedral in Christchurch isn't even

01:13:03

that old I mean they must come down here

01:13:04

and think you preserve that [ __ ] like

01:13:06

really like I mean that's not even

01:13:09

lately you know but I mean you know it's

01:13:13

not just a historic places that's an

01:13:15

issue but

01:13:17

um it's people like you're trying to get

01:13:19

financial advice you know the poorest

01:13:20

people can't get financial advice

01:13:22

because to be a financial advisor you've

01:13:24

got to jump through so many Hoops so

01:13:25

what's worse poor people getting

01:13:27

occasionally dodgy Financial advice or

01:13:29

poor people having no rung on that

01:13:31

letter to a better financial future and

01:13:34

I'll give you examples of them in

01:13:35

building houses you know getting

01:13:37

Financial advice from running Schools

01:13:38

running into daycares I mean everyone is

01:13:41

tied up in rules and regulations and

01:13:43

it's not making us wealthier it's it's

01:13:45

keeping a lot of people in jobs

01:13:46

enforcing all this crap but it's holding

01:13:49

us back and I I so I'm quite Keen to to

01:13:53

do some some serious change right down

01:13:56

at the ground level of of of how

01:14:00

government makes rules and regulations

01:14:01

because right now every politician just

01:14:04

says when in doubt make a rule you're

01:14:05

off scot-free politicians need to be

01:14:07

held accountable for making bad rules

01:14:08

and that's that's another policy topic

01:14:10

we'll go further into but geez I just

01:14:12

looked at the clock we've been going for

01:14:13

an hour and a quarter I told your press

01:14:16

person that would be an hour are you

01:14:18

okay for time yeah yeah yeah no no it's

01:14:20

Friday afternoon

01:14:21

um and we can't lose another prime

01:14:23

minister this week so it's all good

01:14:26

um

01:14:27

all right what's your relationship like

01:14:28

with alcohol at the moment um there's

01:14:30

another clip that we've been a little

01:14:31

bit viral if you're on Election night

01:14:32

last time uh champagne on Election night

01:14:35

you um it was the biggest night ever for

01:14:37

it so you you did have calls to

01:14:39

celebrate but you seemed a little uh

01:14:40

Tipsy and slurry

01:14:41

um and it came out afterwards that you'd

01:14:43

been alcohol-free for a couple of years

01:14:44

or something and uh you had two

01:14:45

Champagnes and they went ahead I wanna

01:14:47

thank

01:14:48

the people of New Zealand around 200

01:14:53

000 new zealanders who have put their

01:14:56

trust and act and would like this

01:14:59

genuinely independent team of fabulous

01:15:02

act MPS to work for you

01:15:05

yeah I was a bit more than that um

01:15:07

no a couple of Magnums what happened was

01:15:11

um because I was thought about how we're

01:15:13

going to do this night we'll make an

01:15:14

entrance so I called a very good mate of

01:15:17

mine probably enough someone from kids

01:15:18

line he's got a boat and I run about and

01:15:21

I said what do you reckon is it possible

01:15:23

that we could actually drive to the HQ

01:15:27

Leo malloy's bar

01:15:28

um in your boat

01:15:30

and this is like two weeks out from

01:15:32

actually he's like don't worry about it

01:15:34

I'll make it happen see you there

01:15:36

um so it's good to have friends like

01:15:37

that and uh so he sorted it out I met

01:15:41

them there

01:15:42

and then a couple of other mates

01:15:46

um and then we started driving but

01:15:48

actually you've got to go around such a

01:15:50

long way to get to the viaduct or

01:15:53

whatever yeah and and flitch is a great

01:15:55

guy but you know a few years back he did

01:15:57

a Skipper's license and he's just anal

01:15:59

about this I was like no no five knots

01:16:01

over 200 meters

01:16:06

yeah and like people are calling they're

01:16:09

like oh TV's really like are you coming

01:16:11

I'm like yeah yeah meanwhile

01:16:15

Meanwhile my good mate Tom he's on the

01:16:18

he's on the back of the boat opening

01:16:20

another bottle of moon and I'm just like

01:16:22

oh [ __ ] so it took about 20 minutes we

01:16:25

absolutely saddled by the time he got

01:16:27

there so um so um in any case uh that

01:16:31

that but I'm not avoiding it your wider

01:16:34

question but basically

01:16:36

um there's something Muldoon said you'll

01:16:38

drink more and more

01:16:39

um when you get to this place and you

01:16:42

think about it um you go and have lunch

01:16:45

and you probably shouldn't have beer

01:16:46

everyone and then you know you get to

01:16:49

six o'clock and the bells ring and you

01:16:51

go out and there's some Lobby group or

01:16:53

something putting on a function and it's

01:16:55

an open bar and then the bells ring

01:16:58

again you've got to be back in your

01:16:59

office you're not allowed to leave till

01:17:00

10

01:17:02

um and you know you've got to fridge and

01:17:04

you think well what you have one more I

01:17:06

mean it's only Tuesday at 10 o'clock and

01:17:09

you've already had five or six beers

01:17:12

um and you you haven't had Friday or

01:17:14

Saturday so you can easily end up you

01:17:18

know having 40 or 50 drinks a week

01:17:20

without even thinking about it so I got

01:17:22

to that point and the biggest measure of

01:17:24

it was um at my Peak I was 86 kgs when I

01:17:28

quit drink dancing took off about seven

01:17:30

and then and then then I quit drinking I

01:17:32

got down to about 72 I think so I

01:17:36

calculated that my at my Peak my body

01:17:39

mass was actually 18 Heineken wow so

01:17:43

um you know I I and it was the best

01:17:46

thing I ever did it gave me enormous

01:17:48

energy lost huge amounts of weight saved

01:17:51

a huge amount of money because also not

01:17:53

it's not all free

01:17:55

um and just I suppose the extra hours

01:17:56

you have and you know the extra product

01:17:57

of hours absolutely you know you don't

01:17:59

spend much time actually doing the

01:18:00

drinking and then you wake up an hour

01:18:02

earlier feeling fresher so

01:18:03

um gives you back two hours a day on

01:18:05

average so so all of that was was just

01:18:07

fantastic

01:18:09

um but then

01:18:10

um you know I get a lot of abuse from my

01:18:13

staff people are worried about bullying

01:18:14

buying MPS I'm worried about bullying of

01:18:17

MPS by this stuff and they all started

01:18:19

saying I was a robot so

01:18:23

um oh really because you weren't

01:18:24

drinking well yeah yeah yeah and I just

01:18:26

thought well you know you make the

01:18:28

occasional exception so so now I maybe

01:18:31

drink once or maybe twice a week but

01:18:34

probably more ones right right because

01:18:35

you did an interview and you see you had

01:18:37

a like a rule a while ago that um you

01:18:39

only drank if it was a champagne

01:18:40

function which to me to me reading

01:18:41

between the lines I read is like being

01:18:43

polite so if there's trash champagne's

01:18:45

for a toaster yeah yeah yeah yeah so so

01:18:47

but if you've got this ability to

01:18:50

um regulate your drinking you're like

01:18:51

clearly you don't have a drinking

01:18:52

problem no you can stop no and I don't I

01:18:55

don't think I did I I think I I think I

01:18:57

had a lifestyle where that was sort of

01:19:00

normal almost

01:19:02

um but also it's a it's an interesting

01:19:05

question isn't it because I

01:19:07

I I was I was comfortably performing my

01:19:09

job but I wasn't reaching my potential

01:19:11

and so I quit on the 1st of January 2019

01:19:15

and you know by the end of the year

01:19:18

x-polling was polling for two or three

01:19:20

MPS for the first time in a decade and

01:19:23

then the following year in 2020 we got

01:19:25

the best result the party had ever had

01:19:27

so it's definitely performing better

01:19:29

then I mean I wasn't necessarily

01:19:30

performing badly before us when we

01:19:32

reelected and doing my job and showing

01:19:33

up and all that

01:19:34

um so yeah it's interesting question of

01:19:36

you know is it just affecting your

01:19:38

ability to do your job or affecting your

01:19:40

ability to reach your potential and but

01:19:43

then you know sub USA as a robot so now

01:19:46

I'm in a sort of slightly more a a

01:19:49

smoother equilibrium yeah it's strange

01:19:51

the the pressure to drink though it's

01:19:53

got to be the only drug in the world

01:19:54

like if I started wrapping up lines of

01:19:56

coke now I wouldn't be like why aren't

01:19:58

you having one come on have one have one

01:20:00

some people would

01:20:02

um you know well yeah although I gotta

01:20:05

say I I think it's interesting that the

01:20:07

drinking culture is just improved this

01:20:10

is another one of these things if you

01:20:12

look at the amount of bench drinking and

01:20:13

the amount of alcohol that people

01:20:15

consume in New Zealand it has been

01:20:16

falling off a cliff for 40 years even as

01:20:19

there's been more advertising even as

01:20:21

there's been more product Choice people

01:20:22

are getting more sophisticated and and

01:20:25

more thoughtful and and the and the

01:20:27

breweries and vinters or whatever having

01:20:29

to sell more interesting products

01:20:32

instead of just competing on price and

01:20:34

volume so it's a great example of how in

01:20:37

a free Society we get to a better place

01:20:40

than we're used to and all these idiots

01:20:42

you know alcohol healthwatch I mean

01:20:43

they're a bunch of Muppets

01:20:45

um they don't know anything you know but

01:20:47

but they're and you know Chloe

01:20:49

swarbrick's got this bill to ban alcohol

01:20:51

advertising but not from the America's

01:20:52

Cup because she's from Auckland Central

01:20:54

which is outrageous

01:20:56

um you know it's it's actually a really

01:20:58

good example of what happens in a free

01:20:59

society and when I first quit at the

01:21:01

start of 2019 I go up to people and you

01:21:04

know ask if I can have any non-alcoholic

01:21:06

beer and they looked at me like I'd just

01:21:09

gone up and said you know I'd like to

01:21:10

try and learn how to put my own dick in

01:21:12

my ear

01:21:13

um and you know I do that oh well well

01:21:16

um you know not on cold days anyway but

01:21:19

um

01:21:21

and uh but but but you know now

01:21:26

basically everywhere you go has a zero

01:21:29

alcohol selection yeah yeah and I was at

01:21:31

a supermarket the other day they've got

01:21:33

a whole aisle of um zero or a whole sort

01:21:36

of shelf of alcohol free um drinks so I

01:21:40

just looked the way the culture's

01:21:41

evolving is fantastic yeah and there's

01:21:43

zero beers they actually taste quite

01:21:45

good now they're really sort of like

01:21:47

perfected the the recipe oh yeah I mean

01:21:49

Heineken zero is very good

01:21:51

um some of the others are a bit syrupy

01:21:53

or a bit watery but yeah Heineken zero

01:21:55

is great and how's your how's your

01:21:57

mental health been over the years have

01:21:58

you been mostly good for you

01:22:01

um you know it's an interesting question

01:22:03

again because

01:22:06

I didn't really have a reference frame

01:22:07

and and some people will be able to

01:22:09

relate to this that they're in such an

01:22:11

unusual position

01:22:12

because like you know how how should you

01:22:14

feel being the you know first person to

01:22:17

enter Parliament by themselves in

01:22:20

several decades there's no template for

01:22:23

that

01:22:24

um so you know certainly there were some

01:22:27

really really tough times especially

01:22:30

after the 2017 election tough times in

01:22:32

terms of what like loneliness or

01:22:35

um well you know it's it's it's

01:22:37

difficult when you have a bad result

01:22:39

because you sort of lose every argument

01:22:41

because he would just say oh we're not

01:22:42

vote for you and the thing is they're

01:22:45

right

01:22:46

come back it's like a public record yeah

01:22:49

and you can't say oh I wasn't trying to

01:22:51

get votes to them what the [ __ ] were you

01:22:53

doing you know so

01:22:55

um so so

01:22:57

um yeah that that was a that was a

01:23:00

pretty morose sort of a time

01:23:03

um but I definitely think and in a way

01:23:06

it's connected to the quitting dream

01:23:07

because I mean one thing about it is you

01:23:09

know you um

01:23:12

algol produces enzymes I forget that

01:23:15

that also make you anxious us so you

01:23:17

wake up tired and anxious that's not

01:23:19

gonna help oh anxiety yeah it's a real

01:23:21

thing and you get less stuff done I

01:23:23

forget the chemicals but yeah this is

01:23:24

totally real and and you get less stuff

01:23:27

done so you're not achieving it don't

01:23:28

have much full momentum so that that's a

01:23:30

real problem too

01:23:32

um so so there's a there's a bunch of

01:23:33

issues there that you know alcohol and

01:23:36

mental health and I think so John

01:23:37

kerwin's really good on this uh

01:23:39

connecting those

01:23:41

um but I also think that you you know

01:23:43

ultimately uh while the uh real serious

01:23:47

mental health issues and people should

01:23:49

get help and and we need to do a lot

01:23:52

better at people getting help sometimes

01:23:55

you actually do just have to decide for

01:23:58

yourself that you're going to make a go

01:23:59

of it because one of the things that

01:24:02

I've seen you know being involved in

01:24:04

kids Zion or lifeline and around that

01:24:07

scene and and seen a few people involved

01:24:09

in it is that you know there's always a

01:24:12

danger that it starts to take on its own

01:24:14

momentum and that can be a real worry

01:24:17

because all of a sudden it sort of you

01:24:21

know mental health issues become a topic

01:24:24

in themselves yeah you need to get help

01:24:26

though a real problem but you also need

01:24:28

to know what you can control and how you

01:24:31

can move on that's just as empowering

01:24:32

yeah because you you've gotten a bit of

01:24:34

trouble a few years ago for

01:24:36

um basically saying what you said now

01:24:37

but less eloquently you said people that

01:24:40

are depressed need to harden up or

01:24:41

something no no something like that no I

01:24:44

didn't say that what was it exactly you

01:24:46

got in trouble for something there was a

01:24:47

bunch of kids that this was about seven

01:24:50

years ago there's a bunch of kids at Vic

01:24:51

Uni and they're I'm pretty sure they're

01:24:53

at a warehouse which is the most

01:24:55

exclusive Hall to be an advocate and um

01:25:00

they were going on about all their

01:25:02

problems and I've got to go to ex

01:25:04

lectures and study and sort of exams and

01:25:07

I've got to work on I've got depression

01:25:09

and anxiety

01:25:10

and I listened to the whole you know

01:25:14

every whinging grievance and I said well

01:25:17

maybe you need to harden up but they

01:25:18

interpreted it as as addressed at their

01:25:21

depression anxiety comment whereas it

01:25:24

was really targeted the fact that they

01:25:25

were just chronic Wingers about every

01:25:27

aspect of their life

01:25:29

um but of course that got Lost in

01:25:31

Translation yeah of course

01:25:32

um yeah it was a Sensei sensationalism

01:25:34

isn't it but you never you never said

01:25:36

when you were working for youth line you

01:25:37

never told anyone to harden up

01:25:40

um well no but I mean listen I I I agree

01:25:44

fully with what you're saying and I

01:25:45

think like nobody you need to look after

01:25:48

yourself nobody's coming for you and if

01:25:51

you have a true chemical imbalance in

01:25:52

your brain then it probably needs to be

01:25:54

rectified with medical intervention but

01:25:55

otherwise there's like a lot of things

01:25:57

you should try for yourself first try

01:25:59

having cold showers try a sting off the

01:26:00

alcohol try staying of social media yeah

01:26:02

and if if you still feel like crap after

01:26:04

doing all these little changes for your

01:26:07

own good 100 and look I mean one you

01:26:09

know the first thing anyone's going to

01:26:10

describe you as cognitive behavior

01:26:12

therapy which is about you know

01:26:14

challenging negative perceptions

01:26:16

challenging the idea that what's bad is

01:26:19

you know personal pervasive and

01:26:21

permanent and saying well actually is

01:26:23

that really true or is this you know a

01:26:25

one-off or something you could do

01:26:26

something about so you know you're on

01:26:29

Solid Ground there that actually I I

01:26:32

think we we need to acknowledge the

01:26:34

problem but also have a bit more you

01:26:37

know you can do something about this and

01:26:39

you do have choices and so on I know

01:26:41

some people are coming how dare you

01:26:42

Amara well actually no there's you know

01:26:45

you say there are people with genuishes

01:26:46

and you do need medical help but

01:26:48

um there's also a lot of scope for

01:26:50

making the most of making every post a

01:26:52

winner yeah absolutely

01:26:55

um

01:26:56

what are you most proud of do you think

01:26:57

it's the end of the end of life though

01:26:59

oh and career-wise I mean to realize

01:27:01

career-wise I am proud of the end of

01:27:02

life choice X

01:27:04

um but I'm much more proud of the X team

01:27:07

and uh the culture that's evolved there

01:27:10

I mean we've brought in nine people new

01:27:12

to politics and made some very high

01:27:14

performing MPS you know Brooke Van

01:27:15

velden being the the obvious standout

01:27:18

amongst those but

01:27:19

um you know also Karen and Nicole and

01:27:21

Mark and others too have done a really

01:27:23

good job so uh we put I'm I'm proud of

01:27:27

of having LED that team it could have

01:27:28

gone a number of ways but I think we

01:27:29

created a great culture

01:27:31

um the other thing that I'm probably

01:27:33

more proud of is is actually charter

01:27:35

schools you know we decided that the

01:27:38

most impoverished communities in New

01:27:39

Zealand should who are getting nowhere

01:27:41

in education should have the opportunity

01:27:44

to come up with their own ideas and run

01:27:46

their own schools their way so long as

01:27:48

they achieve those outcomes attendance

01:27:51

and achievement and they did

01:27:53

um and you know the biggest people out

01:27:55

there say with these poor Brown

01:27:57

communities why would you give them a

01:27:58

chance well actually the most important

01:28:01

thing we can do and um I'm in one of

01:28:04

them a girl and her name was literally

01:28:06

hope she came up to me at the Vanguard

01:28:08

military school and she said I never

01:28:10

knew I was smart until I came here

01:28:13

I thought this is extraordinary you know

01:28:16

because because kids basically assume

01:28:19

that what they're born into is normal

01:28:21

like Civil War and Mogadishu you know

01:28:23

living on the Upper East Side of New

01:28:25

York I mean they both think that their

01:28:26

life is normal

01:28:28

um and um

01:28:30

as a result you know if you give them a

01:28:34

bad environment they'll internalize it

01:28:35

yeah well we changed our environment she

01:28:37

internalized that she was actually smart

01:28:39

amazing and so we did that hundreds if

01:28:43

not thousands of times through charter

01:28:45

schools and unfortunately you know

01:28:47

Jacinda ardern who said she wanted to

01:28:49

put children at the center of everything

01:28:51

closed down 12 small experimental

01:28:54

schools in order to to do what to to

01:28:59

satisfy the demands of the teacher

01:29:01

unions who didn't want any competition

01:29:03

it's just it's totally outrageous but

01:29:05

I'm very proud of what we did there

01:29:07

because it's not over we have shown the

01:29:11

proof of concept and we will do that and

01:29:14

we will allow so many more kids to to

01:29:17

say again I never knew how smart till I

01:29:20

came here and actually reached their

01:29:21

potential oh that's good because it must

01:29:22

be the most frustrating things whatever

01:29:24

your political persuasion is having like

01:29:27

parties reverse what you've done that's

01:29:29

got to be the most eye-rolling annoying

01:29:32

irritating thing yeah yeah but that's

01:29:35

that's politics I mean look they won the

01:29:37

election that was their agenda um the

01:29:40

thing is I I don't think you can stop a

01:29:43

good idea in the long term and I predict

01:29:46

you know in my lifetime every school

01:29:48

will be a charter school in the sense

01:29:50

that it will be autonomous its principle

01:29:53

will have the power to lead their

01:29:55

teaching staff and do it their way they

01:29:58

will have to get certain outcomes in

01:29:59

return for taxpayer money people with

01:30:02

new ideas we've got to start new ones

01:30:03

ones that lose all their students will

01:30:05

lose all their funding and be taken over

01:30:06

and run better you know sooner or later

01:30:09

those ideas will come to pass because we

01:30:12

just can't afford to do what we're doing

01:30:13

yeah it's it's just it's just destroying

01:30:16

kids potential yeah well Einstein had a

01:30:19

quote the definition of Madness is doing

01:30:21

the same thing over and over and

01:30:22

expecting a different result so you need

01:30:23

to try something different Diane yeah he

01:30:25

was smart so yeah

01:30:26

um one thing I've learned from doing

01:30:27

this um this podcast a year now is that

01:30:30

um everyone's everyone's carrying around

01:30:32

their own load everyone's carrying

01:30:33

around like a bag of [ __ ] and it's just

01:30:34

how big the bag of [ __ ] is what what is

01:30:37

it for you regrets guilt shame what is

01:30:40

that what's what what's the what's the

01:30:42

what's the load that you're carrying

01:30:43

around

01:30:44

I hadn't really thought about that

01:30:47

um it's probably a lot of opponents but

01:30:51

um yeah maybe just in Life or work or

01:30:53

general

01:30:54

no I nothing to speak of

01:30:56

no I mean I'm sure that like you say

01:30:59

people could identify uh mistakes I've

01:31:02

made and so on but I mean maybe it's

01:31:04

just my personality that I don't see the

01:31:07

point I mean I'm interested in what I

01:31:09

can do what I can change what I can make

01:31:11

better

01:31:12

um and by definition you can't change

01:31:15

the past so I don't really well on that

01:31:18

a lot I I don't I don't see the point I

01:31:20

mean if there's the way I would frame it

01:31:23

and think of it slightly differently is

01:31:26

you know what have I been able to to

01:31:30

learn from the past uh well many things

01:31:34

um you know for example

01:31:36

um you know people treat you about as

01:31:38

well as you treat them

01:31:40

um and if you invest in being a good

01:31:43

person to others you'd be amazed at the

01:31:45

way they pay you back in unexpected ways

01:31:48

um so you know there's a lot to be said

01:31:50

about for that

01:31:52

um you know I think probably I've been

01:31:55

on a big Journey about

01:31:57

um

01:31:57

understanding you know that while you

01:32:01

may have interesting policy

01:32:03

prescriptions and act has always been a

01:32:04

policy heavy party in a democracy they

01:32:07

have to be chosen in a political

01:32:10

Marketplace and and that's always a real

01:32:12

risk is that people won't choose your

01:32:17

policies if you don't meet the market

01:32:18

and chunk them down in a way that is

01:32:22

deserving of people's attention sure and

01:32:24

that's why we didn't do very well for

01:32:26

the first three or four years because we

01:32:28

had the engineering department was going

01:32:30

gangbusters but the sales department

01:32:31

wasn't so good

01:32:33

um so you know those are things I've

01:32:35

learned and do better now but I don't

01:32:37

sort of walk around saying oh so

01:32:39

terrible you know you know it didn't

01:32:42

didn't put enough evidence to retail

01:32:43

politics for the next four years or so a

01:32:45

bag of [ __ ] I'm going around it's just

01:32:46

it's just a thing it's a thing that

01:32:49

happened and I you know we're better at

01:32:51

it now yeah you learn oh and that's

01:32:52

that's I think failures are something

01:32:54

that needs to be embraced I used to be

01:32:56

like just um petrified by failure I add

01:32:58

to the to the detriment of my own life

01:33:00

because wouldn't try things because I'd

01:33:01

fail but now I embrace it more because I

01:33:04

realize um yeah failures are good things

01:33:06

where you the most growth takes place

01:33:08

um well has there been like a rock

01:33:10

bottom in your life what would rock

01:33:11

bottom to I mean if you get to 39 40 and

01:33:14

you haven't experienced anything too bad

01:33:15

I think you're bloody lucky

01:33:17

[Music]

01:33:19

but it's how you think of it so yeah

01:33:21

you're more just a glass half full kind

01:33:23

of guy um well I mean I probably

01:33:25

mentioned civil in that 2017 election

01:33:27

was all right like so so getting down to

01:33:29

half a percent I mean only 13 000 people

01:33:32

Nationwide you know voted in fact when

01:33:34

that's everyone hates you pretty much

01:33:45

um so so that's that's pretty rubbish

01:33:48

um but

01:33:50

you know we reacted and fixed it and now

01:33:52

we're doing better

01:33:54

um and stuff like that will happen again

01:33:56

um but yeah I've just sort of scraped a

01:33:59

bit I mean I I stayed in my job in

01:34:01

Canada for for too long I had a great

01:34:03

first two years I stayed for a second

01:34:05

two years just out of inertia and

01:34:08

probably what's inertia uh just not

01:34:11

being movable comfort zone yep exactly

01:34:14

and probably a bit of misplaced loyalty

01:34:16

to my then employer

01:34:19

um so you know there's a a few things

01:34:22

like that but I mean now you know you

01:34:24

just gotta move the dial a bit and think

01:34:26

a bit more about number one

01:34:28

um if you don't like what you're doing

01:34:30

get out so just do something about it

01:34:32

yeah so you know again you could um you

01:34:36

could certainly could certainly say that

01:34:38

was a terrible too much it was time and

01:34:39

it wasn't fair and paid enough in a

01:34:42

horrible place and I you know didn't

01:34:43

feel I could move and I was a victim but

01:34:45

who needs all that yeah I think you can

01:34:48

choose a lot of people I think choose to

01:34:50

be a victim because um you know it's a I

01:34:52

suppose it's an easy dopamine getting

01:34:54

that sympathy from people or people

01:34:55

saying I'll poor you yeah um but why

01:34:57

would you go with that stuff so you

01:34:58

leave the egg pad you know give me some

01:34:59

of these say yeah

01:35:00

the boats on the beach what's the um

01:35:03

well I promise we'll wrap this up in a

01:35:05

second what's the what's the biggest

01:35:06

surprise people get when they meet you

01:35:08

like what do people say

01:35:10

well

01:35:12

um there's a there's a couple of things

01:35:14

and I just try to work out

01:35:16

um people say you're much shorter than I

01:35:18

thought is that so now this is good this

01:35:21

is good because you see their perception

01:35:24

of me if I've only seen me on TV or in

01:35:27

pictures

01:35:28

is that they think of me as a tall

01:35:29

person taller than I am in reality I

01:35:32

think the problem is if people say I'm

01:35:34

surprised you're so tall then in their

01:35:37

mind you're a short person so so so this

01:35:40

is this is good

01:35:42

um is it good to be a tall politician

01:35:44

does it matter statistically absolutely

01:35:46

I mean I don't think there's ever been a

01:35:48

US president like less than six foot

01:35:49

they're always tall right

01:35:51

um maybe if you go back to like FDR but

01:35:53

um There Was 80 years ago

01:35:55

um

01:35:56

they're all tall you know so

01:35:59

um Lincoln must have been really tall

01:36:01

with that top hat on well yeah and and

01:36:03

remember everyone else was short then so

01:36:05

he must have been a monster you know

01:36:07

Civil War is probably doing

01:36:09

reconnaissance by just standing there

01:36:12

um so so that helps the other people say

01:36:14

you're better looking in person which

01:36:17

I'm not sure what to make of it

01:36:19

but that seems like a backhanded by the

01:36:22

by the logic of the previous one

01:36:26

um what they're saying is that in my

01:36:28

mind in their mind I'm an ugly person so

01:36:31

right but but I better look again

01:36:34

uglier than I am in reality which is

01:36:36

pretty ugly so

01:36:37

um who knows but um those are two things

01:36:40

people say yeah that's interesting what

01:36:42

is your relationship status at the

01:36:43

moment is it something you talk about or

01:36:44

not really just

01:36:46

married to Parliament really yeah what's

01:36:48

the longest relationship you've had

01:36:50

two and a half years right right you've

01:36:52

been in love you must have said I love

01:36:54

you you've been in love before oh yeah

01:36:56

but I mean obviously it didn't work out

01:36:58

did it well I mean most relationships I

01:37:00

guess run their natural course don't

01:37:01

they for whatever reason yeah yeah I

01:37:04

think that's true I mean funnily enough

01:37:06

I um

01:37:07

one of the things I do as a local MP I

01:37:10

sign cards to people that are having a

01:37:13

golden or even diamond wedding

01:37:14

anniversary there's an astonishing a

01:37:16

number of people that have made it that

01:37:18

far like 50. uh diamonds 16. Golden's 55

01:37:22

and 60. yeah I mean is it going to be um

01:37:25

are you obviously eventually I guess

01:37:27

want to get married and potentially have

01:37:29

kids

01:37:32

has the bar for you been set

01:37:34

particularly High because you aspire to

01:37:35

have something like your parents had

01:37:36

which which presumably would have been

01:37:39

um you know till death do us part yeah

01:37:41

isn't that interesting hey like I I mean

01:37:43

it's not scientific but I noticed my

01:37:45

friends whose parents separated have

01:37:47

often actually been a lot better at

01:37:50

finding a partner and making their

01:37:52

relationships work is that right yeah

01:37:54

and that's that's just my anecdotal

01:37:56

evidence which may just be a fluke

01:38:01

um so who knows maybe maybe it's

01:38:03

actually harder if your parents had a

01:38:05

good relationship but

01:38:07

um yeah speculating there yeah or do you

01:38:09

just are you going to clone your way

01:38:11

through life you like being the the

01:38:12

single guy

01:38:13

George Clooney I think it's I think

01:38:16

being a single he was single to like 54

01:38:18

wasn't he and then he I think I think

01:38:19

being a single guy is probably better

01:38:21

when you're like George Clooney

01:38:24

um but I could be like you and um is it

01:38:26

Brad Pitt or um no DiCaprio yeah yeah

01:38:30

he's got that Sawtooth graph every time

01:38:32

they get to 25. yeah yeah yeah

01:38:35

um oh okay we'll wrap this up um but

01:38:38

running though like we we joked about

01:38:40

this in the start do you do you have a

01:38:41

relationship with running at all are you

01:38:42

a runner I used to love running

01:38:45

um and I used to love the cross country

01:38:47

uh at school everyone hated the school

01:38:50

crossover I love the cross country

01:38:51

because we're up in whangarei on the

01:38:53

outskirts of the town so we'd run

01:38:55

through the forest I got lost ones I

01:38:57

went to one of my old teachers funerals

01:38:59

and they'll talk someone was saying is

01:39:01

the among many other things he lost

01:39:03

David Seymour in the bush but he found

01:39:06

me too so

01:39:07

um

01:39:08

he it was uh I used to love that I I

01:39:11

don't really run now uh just because my

01:39:13

knees aren't that great and funnily

01:39:14

enough uh munted one of them and dancing

01:39:17

with the stars and I munted another one

01:39:19

hyper extended it in the um in the uh

01:39:23

basketball so I actually swim now so I

01:39:26

go to the New Market Olympic in the

01:39:27

morning

01:39:28

um do a few hundred meters there and I'm

01:39:31

I'm terrible at it but this is great and

01:39:33

and sometimes people say oh I could help

01:39:34

you with your Technique I say no no I'm

01:39:36

doing it for exercise you make me more

01:39:37

efficient I have to swim further to get

01:39:39

the same exercise

01:39:43

is that all you do you don't go to the

01:39:45

gym or anything because you look like

01:39:45

you're in you look like in pretty good

01:39:47

shape you just got a good diet and you

01:39:48

obviously don't drink too much yeah I um

01:39:51

when I was in sixth and seventh form I

01:39:54

was obsessively Jim bunny so I was go go

01:39:57

to the gym twice a day I was taking

01:39:58

creatine before anyone knew what it

01:40:00

would do

01:40:01

um and um I I got up I mean I I could

01:40:04

bench over 100 kgs

01:40:06

um even though I weighed under 70. so I

01:40:09

actually had a pretty good run

01:40:12

um you know back then I don't know if

01:40:15

I've got any muscle memory but that was

01:40:17

the the last time I didn't exercise

01:40:19

anyway aside from swimming all right and

01:40:22

um so it's a election year this year um

01:40:24

what do you think is going to happen

01:40:25

crystal ball gazing is um is uh

01:40:28

Christopher luxon and National going to

01:40:29

win now

01:40:30

I mean anything can happen on a

01:40:31

political year can't it but I can

01:40:33

guarantee you after the last couple of

01:40:36

years no one party will will win right

01:40:39

um so so no Christopher bucks

01:40:42

International will not alone uh win the

01:40:45

election no party will I think the the

01:40:47

odds on uh you know right now speaking

01:40:50

to you on what 20th of January

01:40:52

um actor National you know have a have a

01:40:54

clear lead in the polls and clear

01:40:56

momentum in the polls but politics just

01:40:58

changes so quickly so you have a new

01:41:00

labor leader we don't know how they'll

01:41:02

perform

01:41:03

um you know Chris himself is that okay

01:41:05

so far but it isn't really gone through

01:41:07

a campaign it's his first campaign so he

01:41:09

could do very well he could do not say

01:41:11

well he might just sort of oh about

01:41:13

where he is now don't really know

01:41:15

um and then

01:41:16

you've just got events I mean you've got

01:41:18

to remember you know this idiot Putin

01:41:21

could decide to use a nuclear weapon uh

01:41:24

and NATO could decide to go into Ukraine

01:41:26

you could have

01:41:28

um you know the city that she decided to

01:41:30

try and reunify by crossing the Formosa

01:41:34

straight and invading Taiwan I mean all

01:41:37

of that stuff could happen

01:41:39

um and then there's just questions

01:41:40

around you know around this economic

01:41:42

roller coaster so look at all these

01:41:44

people refixing their mortgages

01:41:46

I like to think that inflation will

01:41:48

disappear as fast as it came along and

01:41:50

there's some good reasons to think that

01:41:52

if you look at container shipping prices

01:41:53

gone through the floor maybe that's a

01:41:56

good thing China re-entering the world

01:41:58

economy I think will be ultimately

01:42:00

deflationary because they'll demand a

01:42:02

lot of stuff but they'll produce even

01:42:03

more and they'll also spend a lot and

01:42:06

stimulate the economy globally so you

01:42:09

know the economic conditions might

01:42:10

improve but I think they're probably

01:42:11

still be bad and then the question is

01:42:14

well who do labor pick as their leader

01:42:15

and I suspect that it'll be very

01:42:18

divisive and they'll get a union rep

01:42:20

forced on them by their crazy leadership

01:42:23

selection system and

01:42:26

um that added all together

01:42:28

it will all cancel out and will be about

01:42:31

where we are now with acts being about a

01:42:33

quarter maybe a third of a government

01:42:34

and uh and the Nets being the rest of it

01:42:37

and David Seymour potentially is um I

01:42:39

know it's not your motive or your

01:42:41

motivation but particularly prime

01:42:42

minister yeah I mean look we've said

01:42:44

we'll take the take the position if the

01:42:47

policies are right but you know smart

01:42:49

people when they go for a job they ask

01:42:51

well what will I be able to do in this

01:42:52

job you know that's that's the question

01:42:54

uh and if you know the job is basically

01:42:58

you get the title but but the National

01:43:00

Party won't agree to the kinds of

01:43:01

policies we think New Zealand needs why

01:43:04

become a salesperson for your opponents

01:43:06

so

01:43:07

um that all remains to be seen but what

01:43:10

I do know is if you like ax values it

01:43:12

should give us your party vote because

01:43:13

you know I know people try and over

01:43:15

complicate it but it really is as simple

01:43:17

as that if we if vote your values with

01:43:19

your party vote and vote for act and

01:43:20

then thanks for your support at the last

01:43:21

election well David Seymour thank you

01:43:24

very much for your time thoroughly

01:43:25

enjoyed it you're not so much of an

01:43:26

arrogant pricker after all are you oh

01:43:28

that's very kind of you to say it's been

01:43:30

a real pleasure chatting for you Don

01:43:31

good really appreciate your time and

01:43:33

best of luck for the rest of 2023 I hope

01:43:35

it's a massive year for you and app

01:43:37

[Music]

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Episode Highlights

Jacinda Ardern Resigns
David Seymour reflects on Jacinda Ardern's resignation and her future outside politics.
“Good on her for having the best of intentions.”
@ 02m 58s
January 29, 2023
Double Standards in Politics
A conversation about the double standards faced by male and female politicians.
“It's a real double standard, isn't it?”
@ 07m 36s
January 29, 2023
A Mother's Legacy
He reflects on his mother's incredible journey and determination despite her polio diagnosis.
“Her story is incredible determination.”
@ 20m 53s
January 29, 2023
Messages for the Future
His mother recorded DVDs for each son, sharing personal messages for their future partners.
“It’s not three copies of the one.”
@ 30m 12s
January 29, 2023
The Tragedy of Youth Support
Discussing the irony of regulations preventing kids from helping each other.
“It’s insane that it’s illegal for kids to help other kids.”
@ 39m 00s
January 29, 2023
Authenticity in Politics
A politician reflects on the importance of being genuine in a fast-paced world.
“Just be authentic; you will be found out.”
@ 51m 40s
January 29, 2023
Dancing with the Stars Experience
Reflecting on his time on the show, he learned it was about more than dancing.
“It wasn't about dancing; it was about the ratings.”
@ 56m 20s
January 29, 2023
Changing Perspectives on New Zealand
He shares how his experience on the show changed his view of New Zealand positively.
“If you just broke through the barrier, people do want that.”
@ 01h 01m 06s
January 29, 2023
The Changing Drinking Culture
The drinking culture in New Zealand is evolving, with a rise in non-alcoholic options.
“The culture's evolving is fantastic.”
@ 01h 21m 40s
January 29, 2023
Alcohol and Mental Health
Discussing the relationship between alcohol consumption and mental health issues.
“Alcohol produces enzymes that also make you anxious.”
@ 01h 23m 12s
January 29, 2023
Embracing Failure
Learning from mistakes is crucial for growth. "Failures are good things where the most growth takes place."
“Failures are good things where the most growth takes place.”
@ 01h 32m 52s
January 29, 2023
Choosing Not to be a Victim
He discusses the choice of victimhood, stating, "You can choose to be a victim, but why would you go with that stuff?"
“You can choose to be a victim, but why would you go with that stuff?”
@ 01h 34m 48s
January 29, 2023

Episode Quotes

It's a real double standard, isn't it?
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
It’s pretty bad when the oncologist's crying.
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
It’s insane that it’s illegal for kids to help other kids.
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
Everyone's got a right to be them and to do their best.
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
I never knew I was smart until I came here.
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey
You can choose to be a victim, but why would you go with that stuff?
David Seymour speaks candidly about NZ Parliament || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

Key Moments

Jacinda's Resignation02:58
Classic Car Day18:09
Mother's Encouragement27:37
DVD Messages28:40
Powerful Alliance59:35
Education Revolution1:12:14
Charter Schools Success1:27:35
Learning from the Past1:31:30

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown

David Seymour on THAT Haka Backlash, Chloe, Winston, Luxon & Finding Love

August 17, 2025

01:30:07

David Seymour on THAT Haka Backlash, Chloe, Winston, Luxon & Finding Love

Max Key - The politics of growing up || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

February 19, 2023

01:41:51

Max Key - The politics of growing up || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

Chris Hipkins on Covid Regrets, Sausage Roll Memes & Life as Prime Minister

April 09, 2025

01:46:38

Chris Hipkins on Covid Regrets, Sausage Roll Memes & Life as Prime Minister

Gilda Kirkpatrick on 2022 Wellington Protests & NZ's Covid Response

November 22, 2023

10:22

Gilda Kirkpatrick on 2022 Wellington Protests & NZ's Covid Response

Dame Susan Devoy on Receiving Death Threats, Peeing in a Trophy, Her Winning Mentality & More!

April 07, 2024

01:39:14

Dame Susan Devoy on Receiving Death Threats, Peeing in a Trophy, Her Winning Mentality & More!

Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!

April 21, 2024

01:35:15

Simon Bridges Reflects on Relationships with Winston, Jacinda, Slushies, Scooters & More!

Gilda Kirkpatrick on Real Housewives of Auckland, Gold Digger Reputation & Politics

November 19, 2023

01:24:42

Gilda Kirkpatrick on Real Housewives of Auckland, Gold Digger Reputation & Politics

Willie Jackson Tells All: Winston, Seymour & Jacinda, Radio Backlash with John Tamihere

October 08, 2025

02:04:07

Willie Jackson Tells All: Winston, Seymour & Jacinda, Radio Backlash with John Tamihere

Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

October 27, 2022

01:16:33

Nikki Kaye talks candidly about her cancer diagnosis || Runners Only! Podcast with Dom Harvey

Tom Sainsbury On Being 75% Gay, Chris Parker Friendship, Jacinda Ardern Controversy & Donating Sperm

November 20, 2024

01:05:26

Tom Sainsbury On Being 75% Gay, Chris Parker Friendship, Jacinda Ardern Controversy & Donating Sperm

13-Year-Old Pressures Willie Jackson on Capital Gains Tax!

October 10, 2025

15:12

13-Year-Old Pressures Willie Jackson on Capital Gains Tax!

Sir John Key - Why Trump WINS the 2024 US Election, Advice for Luxon, Remembering 3-Way Handshake

November 03, 2024

01:49:05

Sir John Key - Why Trump WINS the 2024 US Election, Advice for Luxon, Remembering 3-Way Handshake