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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and Max Key
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g'day mate how's it going going great by
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the way um thank you very much um you're
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dressed almost as the same colors as my
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neon sign yeah thank you I got the memo
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on that one so I appreciate it how are
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you how are you today I'm good very good
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yeah yep working hard cool uh how old
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are you now what are you 27 27. yeah
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because I was thinking about you how old
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were you when you when your dad became
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prime minister when we first saw you on
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stage with you know the the big wide
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eyes in front of the cameras for the
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first time looking really startled how
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old were you then
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um I was year nine so I think I was 14
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30 or 14. right do you have much memory
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of that what do you what do you remember
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about that first of all what do you
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remember about the like the lead up
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before that so you know your dad's
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successful in business you find out he's
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running for prime minister what does
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that mean to you as a 12 13 year old
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um I just say anything I kind of
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when you're 12 you don't really
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understand the gravity of anything and
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you know he'd always talked about being
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prime minister and it was always
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something he'd like really wanted to do
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and ever since I can remember so we
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moved back to New Zealand when I was
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year three and he became the um National
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Party oh he became a member of the
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national party then for helensville
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so pretty much since I can remember he
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was always in Parliament so
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for me I guess I just grew up with it so
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it didn't feel that weird or that big
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and yeah suppose what I mean is like you
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can't sort of understand what it means
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exactly like oh I had no chance to be
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prime minister no and it was it
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literally wasn't until I have a very
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clear memory of I was like 20 I think
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and we went it was my final trip that I
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did with Dad as prime minister and we
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went to um China on an official trip and
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I'd gone there like four or five times
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before and it was the first time we were
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sitting in the Great Hall of the people
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I'm pretty sure with the Chinese Prime
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Minister
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and I remember sitting there and you
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know we're with some like very
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established people in the Chinese
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government and you know all of Dad's
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team it was the first time I sat there
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and I was like wow I've literally been
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learning about this guy in economics at
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Uni and
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I was sitting there going like it was
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the first time ever I was like whoa like
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because you know when you're 12 to 20
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you just grow up with it you know it all
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felt in a weird way quite normal like I
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guess when we got rid of the security
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um you know that felt weird for me well
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that's right because you had cops living
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on a camper van on your driveway yeah
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for 24 7 for like 10 years of my life so
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for me when they left it was weird
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because for me like I grew up with
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always I think for my parents and my
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sister they're a bit older so I think
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all of that felt quite weird to them
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whereas for me I just got so accustomed
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to it like none of it felt weird it just
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kind of felt like that that was just how
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it always was amazing what's it you look
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back now and what sort of like awesome
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perks were there like did you like did
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you meet the queen I've saw some photos
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of you with the All Blacks and things
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like that yeah I mean the really cool
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things like uh during the World Cup
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Final in 2011 we got to go to the
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changing room like after they won and
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that was epic you know it was like a 15
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year old that was like the coolest thing
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ever I suppose you could just say to
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your dad like oh I want to meet that you
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know someone's in town say I don't know
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Ash is in town you say Dad can we meet
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our show and you can probably make it
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happen you probably could I mean I just
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I feel like none of us either like
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abused the privilege right like you know
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they're always stories going around that
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people would be like oh Max Key said do
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you know who I am but I just never did
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that like I I feel like my whole family
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felt quite not embarrassed by it but
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almost anything that could have been a
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perk we tried to like statically I
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suppose you have to don't you because
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yeah well they're just focusing is
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almost abusing the power in a way sort
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of yeah and I just think that there'd be
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things that like I would find really
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embarrassing like say he picked me up
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from school and you know the police
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would be outside and pull up right up
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front and I'd be like oh God whereas
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some people go oh you're so lucky you
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get this whereas in my head at the time
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I didn't see a lot of the perks as perks
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and to me of course not yeah like you
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just want to be normal I guess and fit
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in I guess yeah and I think the hard
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thing was everyone would see stuff like
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the World Cup or when we met the queen
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but to me I only got to see my dad every
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three weeks and you know he constantly
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got beat up in the media and at the end
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of the day like people might disagree
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with what he did in his policies and you
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know it's politics you know you're going
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to have polarizing you know opinions on
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you oh of course yeah but for me like
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it's hard seeing when people feel like
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that and so I would have traded any of
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the perks to not have to go through all
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that stuff yeah man there's there's so
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much of that that I want to get into
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um especially the fake news stuff
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involving you like people's New Mexico
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do you know who I am I want to get into
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all of that but first of all I want to
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go I want to go I want to go right back
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so we were you born in New Zealand or
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the UK no I was born in Singapore
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Singapore really random yeah is that
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where your dad was working at the time
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yep he'd been there for like eight
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months and then I got born and then we
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were there for
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probably a year and a little bit right
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and then we moved to London and I was
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there for five years and then we came
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back to Sydney for a year and then to
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New Zealand
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so I mean you don't know you don't know
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any anything different so I don't know
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this is probably a dumb question that
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you can't even answer but what was it
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like being like brought up in like a
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rich family no no not rich rich I think
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when your dad became prime minister who
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the paper city was worth like 50 million
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and so Elon Musk wouldn't even bend over
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to pick that up that's right but it's a
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it's a lot of money yeah like like good
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upbringing nice upbringing well when did
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you realize you were from a like a
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wealthy family
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I know this Probably sounds really bad
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but not until I was probably like 20. oh
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okay dad you know both were raised in
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state homes and they had really tough
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upbringings and so I obviously lived in
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a nice house and went on nice holidays
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but mum and dad never like handed me
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cash like you know I worked at
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McDonald's for four years like when Dad
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was prime minister you know I was always
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hustling to like try and make my own
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money and I think I was very much like
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wanting to do my own thing in the world
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and you know Mum and Dad yeah they
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always looked after me and provided me
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and gave me a good education and you
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know I'm not going to sit here and act
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like I was anyway struggling you know
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and that's since the word but mum and
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dad weren't the kinds of parents where
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they just flicked us cash and if I went
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oh Mom I want a PS5 that you know I
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never had a good to wait till Christmas
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even then you know like they just
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weren't the kinds of parents that just
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handed us everything and I'm really at
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the time you know it because I did go to
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you know like kings in a nice school and
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there were lots of kids that got treated
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like that
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oh gotcha okay that makes sense so
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because I was thinking from from my
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perspective so I was um I was um growing
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up in Palmer's North in the 80s and it's
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like I'd go to a friend's place and I'd
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look I could tell the friend was richer
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than me because they had like appliances
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that I didn't have like a VHS or a
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microwave or whatever or nicer after
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school snacks yeah but do you ever do
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that you went to your friend's place and
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you're like oh they don't have as nice a
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fridge as us but see now but see the
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thing you got to remember is
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that whole period where you're like
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cognitive enough to notice that Dad was
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prime minister and sir he didn't even
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have a car and we did nothing flashy
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because his whole tenure as prime
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minister there was this whole criticism
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that he was really rich and he didn't
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understand other people so during that
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period they never spent money like we
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never did anything lavish you know
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obviously the house was really nice but
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they bought that in 2004 yeah I remember
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your dad like before he became prime
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minister
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um saying he was donating all his prime
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ministerial sellers yeah it's do you
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feel like the tides changing because I
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know exactly what you're saying and it
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was like um I feel like there's two two
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camps of people there's a smaller Camp
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of people that are like [ __ ] this guy's
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done well for himself he'll be a good
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prime minister yeah then there's a whole
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lot of other people like oh God he's
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done well for himself [ __ ] him yeah I
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feel like it's swinging a bit though
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don't you more towards the positivity
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side of things than the tall poppy or
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not so much I mean I think tool poppy
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syndrome in New Zealand is really bad
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um and it's a shame I do think at the
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moment with how the economy is going I
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think this people that are starting to
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sit there and go
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you know we navigated the global
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recession last time and came out you
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know we're probably one of the strongest
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countries you know in the world
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economically after that
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so I think there are people now that are
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starting to be grateful
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um I just think there's a lot of
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politicians that go in that you know
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they've never actually worked
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and I just don't think they actually
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understand like how the economy works or
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you know I'm obviously young so you know
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I'm not sitting here saying I know you
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know everything myself but
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I just think yeah a lot of politicians I
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think a lot of them aren't actually
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they're for the right reasons and a lot
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of them are just career politicians yeah
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you know I think that's where I really
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respected dad was you know he went and
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did it and he walked the talk and you
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know you talked to him he's a genius
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with markets and he understands all that
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stuff and you know I think he was the
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best person for the job at that time so
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I think there are people now that start
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you know they're starting to realize
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that and
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you know as I said politics is so
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polarizing you know say you had a
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million dollars and you put it into
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curing cancer there's going to be
00:08:49
someone whose mum died of you know some
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other disease or had a brain tumor and
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then they're going to go well why aren't
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you funding that or you know everything
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you do it's it's yourself up
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discretionary of course yeah well it's
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not Zero Sum like if you do one thing to
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help one person it's at the cost of yeah
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the opportunity cost of not helping
00:09:06
someone else and so you know if you
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raise tax you piss business owners often
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you anger some people and but you help
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you know so you constantly it's I think
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it's a one industry where it's very very
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difficult to make people like you oh
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impossible even look at the situation
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now with um Jacinda ardern like she went
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from being the most loved and respected
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prime minister and now now that things
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are getting a little bit tight for
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people and mortgage rates are going up
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and the cost of living crisis
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um you know the the um the Halo is
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getting a little bit tarnished like
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everyone turns on you eventually in
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politics don't they well I think and
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that's why I think Dad timed leaving at
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a really good time you know he left when
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he was super popular and I think as you
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said
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you know that tide is Shifting where
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people really respect him I think they
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realized he wasn't in it for the ego and
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he wasn't there just to be loved forever
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and he didn't overstep his kind of Mark
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I think
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to me he's always said to me like a good
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Trader knows you know when to hit the
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bid and at the same time to me that's
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always just resonated like there's
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always a right time to make the decision
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you've got to move fast and you've got
00:10:07
to do what you think's right yeah and
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for him I think he felt like he had got
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us through the recession and you know
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that was what he was really interested
00:10:14
in and yeah everyone talked about it
00:10:15
being a rock star economy here in New
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York yeah it was the phrase that was
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used yeah so um yeah
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I I loved your dad as prime minister
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from a uh the perspective of a
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commercial radio broadcaster like he'd
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come in for a chat he'd be up for
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anything and that was something that he
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did get quite a bit of you know
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criticism for I guess in his time like
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people would call him a goofball or
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whatever yeah did you did you ever like
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tell your dad off like oh all the time
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yeah
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but like all the time and that's what
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I'm meaning like imagine you're 15 and
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like Dad's doing all and everyone's like
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oh you must have thought it was so cool
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I was sitting like this is so
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embarrassing like you know I'm just
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trying to fit in at high school and I
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had dad doing like
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I don't know
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the Christmas thing with you guys oh
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yeah that was a shocking it's like a
00:11:00
Christmas song I mean um there was one
00:11:02
thing which I I was a little bit unfair
00:11:04
uh the like the ponytail thing yeah
00:11:08
um yeah they've had a little mean Spirit
00:11:09
anyway but if like I said the flip side
00:11:12
of that
00:11:13
um what was what was he like with you I
00:11:15
I'm guessing like you said lost your dad
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for like a a really crucial and
00:11:18
important decade of your life yeah well
00:11:20
I mean I'm sure he would have been there
00:11:22
as much as what he could but yeah I
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think that's where I have like
00:11:26
conflicting views on it you know there
00:11:28
was a phase a few years ago where
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I don't know if resentment's the right
00:11:33
word but you know I did feel kind of
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angry at him because you know my sister
00:11:36
moved away and you know it was just me
00:11:38
because while he was prime minister or
00:11:39
yeah yeah you know and so for me it was
00:11:42
like I did find it really hard and I
00:11:44
think what I found really tough was it
00:11:46
was I found it hard talking about my
00:11:48
mental health because you know it's like
00:11:49
first question on here you're saying oh
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what's it like being a rich kid and what
00:11:52
was it like this and that's the scrutiny
00:11:54
I'm constantly under so then when I sit
00:11:55
there and go oh I had a tough upbringing
00:11:57
our culture's so like oh but you lived
00:11:59
in a big house and you got toys but to
00:12:03
me it's like
00:12:04
that doesn't make you happier if
00:12:05
anything I think finding happiness is
00:12:07
harder because you have a lot of the
00:12:09
things that most people spend their life
00:12:10
just trying to achieve but when you've
00:12:12
got that all you actually have to find
00:12:13
purpose and but it's hard to sit there
00:12:15
and complain about that because people
00:12:16
go why I'm sleeping in my car and you're
00:12:18
like well you're true yeah
00:12:20
so it's I found it really complicated to
00:12:24
ever talk about it because say I sit
00:12:26
there and go I had a hard upbringing
00:12:27
because I I think I did have a hard
00:12:29
upbringing not in a I feel sorry for
00:12:31
myself but it was a very complicated
00:12:33
upbringing I mean everything I did was
00:12:35
in the media I was constantly
00:12:36
scrutinized by people
00:12:38
you know if I put everyone was trying to
00:12:40
see my downfall and I was a young kid
00:12:42
young boy and I made mistakes and
00:12:43
everything I did got massively publicly
00:12:46
kind of oh and a magnified in a big way
00:12:49
and um I mean the only argument I think
00:12:51
that people could put up as well if you
00:12:53
don't like it don't put yourself out
00:12:54
there but it's like here you are you're
00:12:55
a teenage boy you've got an Instagram
00:12:57
account big [ __ ] deal so does
00:12:59
everyone else the same age and that was
00:13:00
kind of because everyone turned and said
00:13:02
well you elicit the attention but
00:13:04
actually what happened was they were
00:13:05
writing all that stuff before I even had
00:13:07
an Instagram or before I did anything
00:13:09
and I got to a point where it was all
00:13:12
happening anyway so I got to a point
00:13:14
going I didn't choose this like I'm just
00:13:16
in this so then I was like why may as
00:13:18
well just do what I want to do and I got
00:13:20
to a point where it was not like
00:13:22
rebellious but I was kind of like [ __ ]
00:13:23
you I'll do what I want like and so I
00:13:25
just started doing everything I enjoyed
00:13:27
and then you know I was like I want to
00:13:28
be a DJ so I went and you know did that
00:13:30
and everyone sat there and went you're
00:13:32
eliciting the attention but
00:13:34
it was kind of one of those things where
00:13:36
it was happening anyway so I got to the
00:13:38
point where I was like you kind of
00:13:39
damned if you do damned if you did yeah
00:13:40
so I was like why don't I use it to my
00:13:42
advantage yeah sure you know and so
00:13:45
I don't know
00:13:46
I really want to get into this because
00:13:48
it's it's like it is really unfair and
00:13:50
I've got firm opinions about that like
00:13:52
um I think politicians get get it they
00:13:55
um it's a brutal business brutal um like
00:13:57
Helen Clark before your dad like there
00:14:00
was constant speculation about her and
00:14:02
her husband and about him being a beard
00:14:03
and being a fake relationship or
00:14:05
whatever
00:14:06
um when when your dad left there was
00:14:08
there was some rumors rumors going about
00:14:10
him having an affair with one of his
00:14:12
politicians and your mum basically said
00:14:14
the job on me now I think it's even
00:14:16
worse for Clark gave it it's like oh
00:14:18
yeah there's the thing about the nanny
00:14:20
and people were on WhatsApp to me saying
00:14:21
it's true here's a picture of her and
00:14:23
I'm like yeah as much as we're all like
00:14:25
this to be true because it's so
00:14:26
salacious it's probably not and then the
00:14:29
home detention thing it's just oh yeah
00:14:30
that's Relentless but I think um I I do
00:14:32
think that's unfair because they're just
00:14:34
public servants but when it when it
00:14:36
starts impacting the kids as well I
00:14:37
think that's a Next Level sort of
00:14:39
situation yeah what was interesting
00:14:40
about kind of Dad's time as prime
00:14:43
minister was we were the first
00:14:45
family almost in the world where social
00:14:49
media was a thing so social media came
00:14:51
in when I was
00:14:53
year 13 so 2012.
00:14:56
and that was kind of dad gotten in 2010.
00:14:59
oh no sorry 2008.
00:15:01
and so we were kind of that first
00:15:03
generation where there was a prime
00:15:05
minister with kids my age
00:15:07
where social media existed because with
00:15:09
Helen Clark you know social media and
00:15:11
exertion of kids the last New Zealand
00:15:14
family that had kids was Jenny Shipley
00:15:15
right yeah and that was way before
00:15:17
Myspace in bibo yeah way before then so
00:15:20
so yeah the only International
00:15:22
comparison I can think of off the top of
00:15:23
my head is probably like Obama that was
00:15:25
literally the only at the time like in
00:15:27
kind of the western society that was the
00:15:30
only family with a kid because think
00:15:32
about most people like Joe Biden
00:15:33
obviously
00:15:36
yes all of them
00:15:43
I think that yeah so it was quite an
00:15:46
unusual thing where because
00:15:48
say with Obama there's way way way way
00:15:50
more risk for his family you know
00:15:52
there's a genuine risk that someone
00:15:54
comes and tries to assassinate them so
00:15:56
his kids were way under lock
00:15:58
whereas dad was kind of like I don't
00:16:00
want to rob you of your childhood but at
00:16:02
the same time
00:16:03
I know how much pressure you're under
00:16:05
and I was just really like I'm doing
00:16:07
this and it just got to a point where
00:16:09
they were like okay well do it then and
00:16:11
it almost created this Beast that
00:16:13
I hadn't I at the time I never knew it
00:16:15
was gonna become what it became
00:16:18
you know I kind of just wanted an
00:16:20
Instagram and then all of a sudden there
00:16:21
were articles and
00:16:23
but the other thing you do becomes a
00:16:24
news story by the way depressing for
00:16:26
those journalists imagine doing three
00:16:27
years of Journalism school to then just
00:16:29
update Max Keys feed and write a story
00:16:32
about it there was some funny fact
00:16:34
though when Dad was
00:16:36
um I think it was in 2017 it was the
00:16:39
year after Dad sat down that was
00:16:41
probably where my like profile was the
00:16:42
highest
00:16:43
and there were more articles on me than
00:16:45
the labor housing policy there was like
00:16:48
135 articles on me and there was like
00:16:51
95 on labors like housing
00:16:54
and when you sit there and think like I
00:16:57
was like a first year uni student oh no
00:16:58
I was like a third year uni student and
00:17:00
there was just nonsense and I don't know
00:17:02
it's just crazy like the clickbait yeah
00:17:04
like what people so yeah so it helped
00:17:07
how I I mean I follow you on social
00:17:10
media now and you you seem to have a
00:17:11
fantastic relationship with your parents
00:17:12
yeah um you play golf with your dad a
00:17:14
lot you're out for dinner with your
00:17:15
parents a lot you even do some business
00:17:17
stuff with your dad
00:17:19
um how how I mean I'm sure he would have
00:17:22
always been as prison as what he could
00:17:23
have been over those years but what did
00:17:25
that look like
00:17:26
like you see him once a week phone call
00:17:28
every couple of weeks text every day
00:17:30
jimin now or then when he was prime
00:17:31
minister oh but he he'd usually be home
00:17:34
on like a Sunday
00:17:36
and it was usually like he'd get home at
00:17:38
like five or six
00:17:40
and then he'd be gone kind of in the
00:17:41
morning so I'd probably see him like
00:17:43
maybe once twice a week oh no once every
00:17:45
week or two
00:17:46
for some weeks so he wouldn't be home
00:17:48
but where he was really good was he he
00:17:50
would do things where
00:17:51
you know he might literally catch a
00:17:54
flight home at 9 00 PM just to like say
00:17:57
good night stay the night and you're
00:17:58
leaving it for him
00:18:00
so when I was younger I was really like
00:18:02
oh you're never here but now that I'm
00:18:04
older I'm like holy [ __ ] like
00:18:06
you know he really made the effort to
00:18:07
try
00:18:09
but again when you're young you don't
00:18:11
it's really hard to have perspective on
00:18:13
things when you're when you're young I
00:18:15
think I'm especially like going through
00:18:16
puberty in your teenage years it's like
00:18:17
the whole world revolves around around
00:18:18
you yeah so if your dad's not there he's
00:18:20
spending too much time on his work and
00:18:22
if your prime minister rightfully show
00:18:23
you so you probably should you take it
00:18:25
personally yeah well I there was always
00:18:26
the joke that he cared about as
00:18:28
Blackberry more than likes Town
00:18:31
yeah they always had two on them it was
00:18:34
like a little burner phone thing yeah so
00:18:36
did they um if they have any hard and
00:18:38
fast rules like never you know you can
00:18:40
do you can do whatever you want but like
00:18:42
never never be seen doing drugs or never
00:18:44
do this or
00:18:45
or is it just like they just trusted you
00:18:47
to have the common sense to conduct
00:18:49
yourself in a
00:18:50
um I feel like I'm quite
00:18:53
morally sound myself like I don't need
00:18:55
my parents like I barely drink now like
00:18:58
I didn't drink from January till
00:19:00
September this year
00:19:02
I think I did once for my My Best
00:19:04
Friend's Wedding
00:19:06
um yeah that's a journey we've got to
00:19:07
get into soon the Jiu Jitsu Journey yeah
00:19:09
and I don't know I
00:19:11
like when I was at high school I was
00:19:13
very into my sport I was trying to be
00:19:14
like a pro baseball player
00:19:16
um
00:19:17
and I was I was since I was born in
00:19:19
Singapore and London I started school
00:19:22
like a year early I started at four
00:19:23
whereas here you start at five right so
00:19:25
I was really young for my year like I
00:19:27
finished school when I was 16.
00:19:29
but I did school but I was just like I
00:19:32
was late May and I was young so I was
00:19:34
almost like two years young so I think
00:19:36
like when I was at school you know a lot
00:19:38
of the kids were like 18 and getting
00:19:40
into drinking and girls and I like
00:19:42
barely had my driver's license like and
00:19:45
I was just really focused on my Sport
00:19:46
and so
00:19:47
that kind of stuff
00:19:49
I didn't have that many arguments for my
00:19:51
parents about because it just wasn't I
00:19:52
wasn't that into it and then I suppose
00:19:54
if you're a parent you're right you
00:19:55
raise your kid right and then just hope
00:19:56
they're going to make the right
00:19:57
decisions yeah and I guess I don't know
00:19:59
it just
00:20:01
obviously I got I went through a phase
00:20:02
maybe when I was like 19 to 22 where I
00:20:06
was like drinking and partying and but
00:20:08
it it's kind of funny like I have this
00:20:10
really bad reputation of being this like
00:20:12
DJ party boy but I mean she's like not
00:20:15
loose at all like all my friends think
00:20:17
I'm a massive [ __ ] like I never really
00:20:19
drink that often like I'm just not not
00:20:22
into drugs like it's just not I'm
00:20:24
actually not like that I'm actually a
00:20:25
bit of a nerd and it's funny because
00:20:28
everyone that meets me like I'll meet
00:20:29
girls and I'll have to meet the
00:20:30
appearance and I'll be like oh you
00:20:32
you're still a party boy and I've heard
00:20:34
about you and it's really funny because
00:20:36
I'm just not like that yeah but I think
00:20:38
I just went through that phase on social
00:20:40
media where I was like I'm gonna show
00:20:41
all the fun bits and everyone everyone
00:20:44
does that shot of people's it's their
00:20:46
top five percent of people's lives yeah
00:20:48
but I think people just wanted to create
00:20:50
this image of my head that made them
00:20:52
feel better about themselves because I
00:20:54
mean even when I was a DJ I was working
00:20:55
at Jardin which is like a you know the
00:20:57
top brokering share brokering company
00:20:59
and you know what did you study at Uni I
00:21:02
did Finance international business and
00:21:04
property yeah yeah you can do both those
00:21:07
things hey you can't be the party boy in
00:21:08
the no and so like take it seriously as
00:21:10
a nine to five well I was working like
00:21:12
seven till eight right like every day
00:21:14
like crazy hours you know and then I'd
00:21:16
DJ like on Saturday night so I'd do a
00:21:18
tour or
00:21:18
and so that was the thing was like you
00:21:20
know I topped classes at Uni like I
00:21:22
studied really hard like tried to be
00:21:24
straight A
00:21:25
but I just never to me when you're 21
00:21:28
I'm like who cares about that so I never
00:21:30
posted about that you know and there'd
00:21:32
always be comments like oh go get a job
00:21:34
or like go get a degree and I'd be
00:21:36
sitting there like I've got two and you
00:21:38
know I've got a job you know I'm working
00:21:39
probably harder than you you know but I
00:21:41
never I just got so you never clapped
00:21:43
back no I just got so numb to it that
00:21:45
was the one thing growing up with it I'm
00:21:46
so like someone could walk in here and
00:21:49
be like you're a loser you're this and
00:21:51
it just doesn't phase me like it's
00:21:53
terrible to get to that point yeah like
00:21:56
you one thing your dad was um very good
00:21:58
at as prime minister was um the
00:21:59
self-deprecating thing yeah and it's I
00:22:02
feel like a lot of new zealanders um oh
00:22:04
maybe I'm just projecting here for
00:22:05
myself but um either then radio because
00:22:08
you feel like well someone's gonna have
00:22:09
a jab at me so I might as well go going
00:22:11
first yeah yeah is that the same for you
00:22:13
it still [ __ ] hurts though that stuff
00:22:17
I mean I think there's exceptions to the
00:22:19
rule so
00:22:21
if a good friend of mine and someone
00:22:22
that I respect calls me out and goes
00:22:24
you're being an [ __ ] or you're
00:22:26
actually like crossing a line 100 or
00:22:29
listen yeah but there's some random
00:22:30
troll on the herald calls me a loser
00:22:32
like cool you know like that that stuff
00:22:37
does not have a single drop of impact on
00:22:40
me oh that's good that's a good place to
00:22:41
be because yeah
00:22:43
um so yeah I I suppose I got like a
00:22:46
little bit of radio Fame like in my it
00:22:47
probably didn't start to my 30s I have a
00:22:49
funny story about that oh really so I
00:22:51
came in for because remember every year
00:22:53
dad would do Christmas yeah and become a
00:22:55
Christmas gifts bottle of wine yeah if I
00:22:57
remember I met
00:22:59
um JJ Mike and Domin you guys signed
00:23:01
this like little poster thing but did we
00:23:03
yeah and I literally used to have it
00:23:05
like on my walls
00:23:06
so [ __ ] and I thought it was the
00:23:09
coolest thing ever
00:23:11
yeah but um where I was going with that
00:23:14
it's like um so I became self-exposed I
00:23:16
guess to that sort of social media
00:23:18
trolling or whatever when I was a grown
00:23:19
ass man and here you are your late teens
00:23:21
dealing with it that's [ __ ] difficult
00:23:24
yeah I feel like you know when you're
00:23:25
older you're probably more emotionally
00:23:27
emotionally well equipped to deal with
00:23:29
it than being a young kid just
00:23:30
navigating your way through [ __ ]
00:23:31
puberty and yeah going from being a boy
00:23:34
to a man
00:23:35
and that's where I think what I was
00:23:37
touching on earlier where I say like I
00:23:39
feel like my upbringing was complicated
00:23:41
like it's not I'm not sitting here
00:23:43
saying it was harder than anyone else's
00:23:44
I just think it was really different I
00:23:46
mean there's not many people that go
00:23:47
through it
00:23:48
I couldn't talk to anyone and be like oh
00:23:50
how do I deal with getting abused by 50
00:23:53
year old men on Facebook right you know
00:23:56
like everywhere I went people would like
00:23:59
scream stuff at me and it was so
00:24:00
polarizing I'd have you know people that
00:24:02
were like massive fans and would pay to
00:24:04
come to my shows and pay to do meet and
00:24:06
greets and people that would try to kill
00:24:08
me if they you know it was like you know
00:24:10
I'd be getting like literal death
00:24:11
threats regularly and like so it was
00:24:13
just it was unbelievable with um the
00:24:15
death threats it's like um what do you
00:24:17
do with that you just hand it to the
00:24:18
cops in the camper van in your driveway
00:24:20
and um or do you just sort of laugh it
00:24:22
off or
00:24:23
um I mean most of them are probably
00:24:24
looneys but it's not something that you
00:24:26
know you can't [ __ ] make jokes like
00:24:27
that well that is a joke they track all
00:24:29
that right like if someone threatened
00:24:33
anyone in our family
00:24:35
it would get sorted very very quickly
00:24:37
they do take that stuff yeah seriously
00:24:40
and that you know now there's laws in
00:24:42
place that you can go to prison you know
00:24:44
for that so they would pretty quickly
00:24:46
part of me like work out
00:24:48
who set up where it's coming from and
00:24:50
you know as you said sometimes it would
00:24:52
just be a drunk kid that said it you
00:24:55
know and that very quickly apologize and
00:24:57
kind of take it down but then yeah there
00:24:59
were some people where it wasn't a joke
00:25:01
um and obviously that got
00:25:03
dealt with in different ways but yeah I
00:25:05
mean every every threat would get
00:25:07
assessed like differently but
00:25:10
um
00:25:10
yes I don't know I guess still back to a
00:25:13
question like on dealing with it I think
00:25:15
it was weird I
00:25:17
I didn't real I've kind of gone on like
00:25:19
a mental health journey in the last like
00:25:21
few years which
00:25:22
I didn't realize how messed up it all
00:25:24
made me like
00:25:26
oh man it's a lot to unpack it was it's
00:25:28
crazy like I was always like a very
00:25:30
happy chill kid like you know if you met
00:25:33
me when I was 18 and I was getting
00:25:35
abused all the time online and that was
00:25:37
when I had like heaps of hate and
00:25:38
because now I feel like I don't get as
00:25:41
much hate you know I'm kind of running a
00:25:42
business I'm building people houses and
00:25:44
I feel like I'm trying to do good things
00:25:46
now so I'm getting like less abused
00:25:49
constantly whereas back then when I was
00:25:50
like a bit of a dropkick DJ like you
00:25:53
could see why everyone thought I was at
00:25:54
all like and I like that no no no
00:25:56
actually
00:25:57
you can't you can't think someone's a
00:26:00
tall just because they're wearing a
00:26:01
bandana and no shirt yeah but I can see
00:26:03
like but I've got a post here so this
00:26:05
was um this was made on um your 26th
00:26:07
birthday how old are you now 27.
00:26:10
I realized for the last few years of my
00:26:11
life I'd portrayed this party boy
00:26:13
dropkick version of myself that was
00:26:14
actually not an accurate representation
00:26:16
of the person I really am I hated the
00:26:17
way I presented myself and learned the
00:26:19
lessons and negative effects social
00:26:20
media can play blah blah blah blah
00:26:22
um
00:26:23
I mean is that being a bit hard on
00:26:25
yourself I feel like you were just like
00:26:27
just growing up being normal I mean you
00:26:29
know you had it you you you still have a
00:26:32
good rig you had a good rig you had some
00:26:33
photos with your top off
00:26:35
most I think um like normal teenage boys
00:26:39
that have that are just like developing
00:26:41
that body in a workout they want to show
00:26:43
it off I think that post is quite
00:26:45
complicated so I took
00:26:48
about 18 months off social media like I
00:26:51
just didn't didn't post and I feel like
00:26:54
I kind of sat there and I'm denied
00:26:56
whether I'd ever get back by the way
00:26:58
what was the Catalyst for taking that
00:26:59
break was there like a was there a rock
00:27:01
bottom or something or I life I'm being
00:27:02
honest I had quite a big mental
00:27:04
breakdown and that's what I was trying
00:27:06
to say before is I didn't realize the
00:27:07
toll it had on me because
00:27:10
as we were saying at the start of the
00:27:11
podcast I would sit there and go oh like
00:27:13
I've got rich parents and I went to a
00:27:15
private school and
00:27:16
I I shouldn't feel sad like I you know
00:27:20
so much to be grateful for it yeah and
00:27:22
I'd be like
00:27:24
I guess I was I was quite self-aware so
00:27:26
I'd sit there and go well
00:27:28
why would I feel like this when you know
00:27:31
I did like community service at school
00:27:33
like there was a big thing at Kings you
00:27:35
know and I saw people like kind of
00:27:36
living on the other side I guess I don't
00:27:39
know how to say that better but
00:27:40
and I was very aware I was like [ __ ]
00:27:42
that you know how I can't moan about
00:27:45
anything I'm going through so I I just
00:27:47
got to a point where I
00:27:49
my way of dealing with it because it was
00:27:51
so overwhelming was I would just ignore
00:27:54
it
00:27:55
and I got literally so good that I
00:27:58
didn't care and I like literally didn't
00:28:00
care just numbed out to it so numb but I
00:28:03
was numb with all my emotions I when I
00:28:05
was dating girls like
00:28:07
you know I'd struggled to feel love like
00:28:09
I wouldn't accept love from people
00:28:11
I was nice I'm not saying I was like an
00:28:13
[ __ ] to everyone but I just had no
00:28:14
emotion like I could break up with
00:28:16
someone I'd be ah whatever
00:28:18
and I'd want to feel hurt and then I'd
00:28:19
go but then I'd go through these
00:28:20
extremes I'd feel really upset for a
00:28:22
little bit but I just had this like
00:28:24
crazy way of just switching it off
00:28:26
and it was it was bizarre and I didn't
00:28:28
really notice until I got older that it
00:28:31
was kind of a problem anyway I went
00:28:33
traveling
00:28:34
it was really weird it was I'd always
00:28:36
been so go go so I got diagnosed with
00:28:39
ADD a couple years ago and OCD which I
00:28:41
never knew I had did you how did they
00:28:43
don't know I'm pretty sure I've got that
00:28:45
as well yeah I mean are you on like
00:28:47
wrestling or Concerta or no I take stuff
00:28:50
for my OCD right right
00:28:52
um like an SSRI
00:28:54
but um
00:28:55
yeah like I because I've always been
00:28:57
super hypo and they've worked out with
00:28:59
add that it's not like a disorder
00:29:01
anymore it's more like a brain type so
00:29:04
people that are just very high energy
00:29:05
and always go go go go that's kind of
00:29:07
it's more like a spectrum as opposed to
00:29:09
like you have a condition because you
00:29:11
can't like fix it you know it's just you
00:29:13
know if you're someone that's super high
00:29:14
energy maybe you are on that Spectrum
00:29:16
but obviously it is a spectrum so
00:29:18
there's people where it affects them so
00:29:21
much that they can't concentrate or so I
00:29:23
don't have it to like extreme levels or
00:29:25
anything like that but anyway one thing
00:29:27
I didn't understand was I've always kept
00:29:29
myself so busy like literally the day I
00:29:32
finished uni I went from my exam to
00:29:34
full-time work and when I was at Uni I
00:29:36
was working while at Uni and I like if
00:29:39
you were like oh come over and let's sit
00:29:41
on the couch
00:29:42
and just sit here I would like have a
00:29:44
mental breakdown I hate that I have to
00:29:46
be like like an active relaxer oh like
00:29:49
but to like an unhealthy extreme right
00:29:52
right you know like this morning got up
00:29:53
went to the gym at seven like had
00:29:56
meetings eight till ten then went to
00:29:57
Physio then came here like I'll be busy
00:30:00
till the moment I go to sleep and I just
00:30:03
have to be like that I just crammed so
00:30:05
much stuff in 24 7 I'm always like
00:30:07
and so
00:30:09
I my way of dealing with everything was
00:30:12
I was so busy that I just ignored it and
00:30:14
so what happened was I went on this OE
00:30:16
you know my whole life my parents been
00:30:18
like you have to achieve you have to do
00:30:19
this like you have to study you have to
00:30:22
get your grades you have to make money
00:30:23
like they were so strict on me and like
00:30:24
because they wanted me to do well but
00:30:26
they pushed me and then I went from that
00:30:28
you know working like Investment Banking
00:30:30
crazy hours so much pressure
00:30:33
you know and then all the pressure of
00:30:34
growing up with Dad like the social
00:30:36
media and then I'm sitting on the beach
00:30:38
in the Bahamas literally on my own in
00:30:41
the middle of nowhere with no service
00:30:44
no one knows me like just literally
00:30:47
nothing and my parents being like Oh
00:30:49
yeah have fun
00:30:50
and I remember I was sitting on a speech
00:30:51
I just started crying
00:30:53
and I was like this is the weirdest
00:30:54
thing ever and as I'm in the most
00:30:56
beautiful place I've ever been in my
00:30:57
life and I'm miserable
00:30:59
and I called my mum and I was like I let
00:31:01
you think I'm depressed I was like I
00:31:03
don't know what it is but it was it was
00:31:05
so confusing for me because I always
00:31:06
thought depression was like
00:31:08
you sat in your bed and it was dark and
00:31:11
you couldn't get out and you wanted to
00:31:12
kill yourself and that was my idea of
00:31:14
depression but I wasn't feeling like
00:31:16
that like I still want to do lots I
00:31:18
still
00:31:19
but I just wasn't happy either it was
00:31:21
nothing was bringing you the joy that it
00:31:22
should have no I just felt numb about
00:31:23
everything like I wasn't like unhappy or
00:31:26
miserable but I wasn't happy either
00:31:29
and I think what I've now learned since
00:31:31
I go into counseling and stuff like that
00:31:33
is that
00:31:34
um like with that kind of brain any big
00:31:37
change or being too
00:31:40
not doing anything for too long can
00:31:43
really unsettle you and so I had my
00:31:45
whole life I just been like you know I
00:31:46
was always that kid that played like
00:31:48
three Sports and went to school and had
00:31:49
friends and did this and then just so go
00:31:52
go like I'd have a friend round and I'd
00:31:53
leave and I'd be like oh it's called
00:31:55
another friend let's go normal you know
00:31:57
like always wanted to like do stuff and
00:31:59
so you know then I was like I want to go
00:32:02
travel by myself and
00:32:04
I don't know it was just weird into
00:32:06
I really remember I sat on that beach I
00:32:09
had my phone and I was I need to do
00:32:11
something about this because I was like
00:32:12
this isn't like good so I called my
00:32:15
parents had like a big chat and you know
00:32:17
they were kind of like oh maybe you
00:32:18
should come home and I was like nah I
00:32:19
think I think I want to like ride this
00:32:21
out I just started writing this thing on
00:32:23
my notes and it was literally like
00:32:26
I'd never kind of worked out what I
00:32:28
wanted because my whole life I'd been in
00:32:29
the spotlight and doing all these
00:32:31
different things and
00:32:33
I think I sat there and I realized I was
00:32:35
only doing Investment Banking because
00:32:36
Dad did it and he told me about it and
00:32:39
it was cool and he'd been successful and
00:32:41
like I was good at that stuff like I'm
00:32:42
good with numbers and you know I handle
00:32:44
pressure really well
00:32:45
and I kind of went into it though
00:32:47
because
00:32:49
like he did it in a way I wasn't like
00:32:51
literally like I want to do it because
00:32:52
Dad did it but you know it was just
00:32:53
something I'd always been like I'm going
00:32:54
to be especially for it's quite common
00:32:56
for people to follow on their parents
00:32:57
footsteps yeah but I just found like I
00:32:59
was in there and everyone's like oh your
00:33:00
dad was the best Trader and he was this
00:33:02
and
00:33:02
you know so
00:33:04
then you know I was like oh what does
00:33:06
everyone else think it's kind of cool
00:33:07
and I was always really into music you
00:33:09
know
00:33:10
DJing was popular and I was like oh
00:33:11
let's try this you know I kind of felt
00:33:14
like I was doing I had no identity
00:33:16
because I was always John Key's son and
00:33:19
I was like on this massive quest to try
00:33:20
to be Max kid sorry about that 25
00:33:23
minutes of this podcast has been asking
00:33:25
questions about your old man I'm sorry
00:33:26
yeah no that's all good but that that
00:33:28
was what I found so tough and that's why
00:33:31
I loved the DJing was because For the
00:33:33
First Time I became Max Key
00:33:35
and everyone thought I was so into the
00:33:37
publicity and this and that but it's
00:33:39
actually not the psychology of why I
00:33:41
loved it to me it was like
00:33:43
I was me I wasn't oh this is John
00:33:45
Keystone it wasn't like oh
00:33:48
you know I finally had like I was my own
00:33:50
name and I had my own thing and people
00:33:52
knew me for that and I looked good um
00:33:54
the the original stuff you did I looked
00:33:57
that up on Spotify yesterday you were
00:33:58
most successful songs got over a million
00:34:00
lessons yeah now what no mean feat yeah
00:34:03
so I mean that was the thing like it all
00:34:05
like did all good you know I didn't you
00:34:07
know a few of those kind of got to like
00:34:09
number one on Spotify for a little bit
00:34:11
and
00:34:12
you know I'm not sitting here saying I'm
00:34:14
like Calvin Harris
00:34:16
yeah but I mean no no no
00:34:19
yeah like I always put 100 into
00:34:21
everything I do so I like I felt like
00:34:23
the quality you know of everything I did
00:34:25
was was solid but I think yeah when I
00:34:27
was like sitting in the Bahamas I
00:34:29
started basically trying to work out I
00:34:31
just wrote this list and I was literally
00:34:32
like why do eyes Max he actually want
00:34:35
out of life like what do I want to
00:34:37
achieve and what are some things that I
00:34:39
want to do and what makes me happy and
00:34:42
it was so weird and then from that
00:34:44
moment I was like I need to get off
00:34:46
social media because I need to stop
00:34:48
showing other people what I think they
00:34:49
want to see
00:34:51
and I was just I'm just gonna get off I
00:34:53
just got to a point I don't care if you
00:34:54
like myself I don't care if you think
00:34:56
I'm having fun because I'm gonna go have
00:34:57
fun
00:34:58
and I was like I don't care and that's
00:35:00
why I stopped vlogging and doing all
00:35:01
this stuff because I was like all the
00:35:03
fun I was having I was never filming and
00:35:05
all the stuff I was filming I was
00:35:06
forcing and it wasn't actually the stuff
00:35:08
that was really fun and people would go
00:35:09
wow that was amazing and I was like no
00:35:11
the actual amazing thing was when I met
00:35:13
this person or I did this or if I didn't
00:35:15
film it because I was having so much fun
00:35:16
I'd do it and so I just got to a point
00:35:19
where I was like
00:35:21
I think with the OC I get so obsessed
00:35:23
with things so I just became obsessed
00:35:24
with like wanting to be better I think
00:35:26
that's an 80d thing as well like hyper
00:35:27
fixating are you so hyper fixated yeah
00:35:29
and so I created this rule for myself
00:35:32
where I was like every time I was going
00:35:33
to use social media I read a book like
00:35:36
an ebook and ended up reading like 53
00:35:38
books while I was traveling wow and then
00:35:40
I got like obsessed with reading and
00:35:41
seen I'd read every night and that's
00:35:43
like the worst OE ever I know parents
00:35:46
are probably like oh no Max is probably
00:35:47
out doing coke tonight no he's in his
00:35:49
hostel on his Kindle no so I I mean
00:35:52
don't get me wrong I still like win out
00:35:53
and like I still had heaps of fun while
00:35:55
I was traveling but
00:35:56
say like I was on a train and I would
00:35:59
normally just sit there scrolling
00:36:00
Instagram for two hours I just like read
00:36:01
oh the zombie scroll yeah it's a that's
00:36:03
a trap isn't it well I just realized how
00:36:05
much time I was wasting and like you
00:36:07
know I'm not sitting here saying I was
00:36:08
reading like
00:36:10
five hours a day and completely light
00:36:12
but it was just like when I'd be sitting
00:36:14
at an airport or on a plane or you know
00:36:17
I'd do a Kentucky and it'd be a seven
00:36:18
hour bus ride I might read for an hour
00:36:19
and I couldn't believe how much stuff I
00:36:22
you know and so then it just created
00:36:25
this thing where I was like I just
00:36:27
became obsessed with like learning about
00:36:28
myself and so I started I always tried
00:36:30
breaking down to three different types
00:36:32
I'd always read like a psychology book
00:36:34
to try like
00:36:36
yeah and then I'd always read like a
00:36:39
business book on like a mentor I liked
00:36:41
so like maybe Elon musk's book or like
00:36:43
Phil Knight's book or and then I always
00:36:46
yeah such a good book and then my final
00:36:49
thing would always be just something I
00:36:50
enjoyed
00:36:51
just so it would be something more like
00:36:53
fun to break it up because some of the
00:36:54
psychology books can get a bit it
00:36:56
doesn't sound like fun no no but to me I
00:37:00
just got so like fixated on spending all
00:37:02
my time learning and just growing and
00:37:05
trying to be bitter yeah when there's a
00:37:07
great book called um you've probably
00:37:08
even read this one or read bits about
00:37:09
Atomic habits and it talks about like
00:37:11
whether you do like little good things
00:37:13
or little bad things that's going to
00:37:14
take you take your other on an upward
00:37:16
trajectory or a downward trajectory well
00:37:17
that's what I was meaning about like say
00:37:19
with the reading it might only be 10 15
00:37:20
minutes a day but yeah you know I was
00:37:22
traveling for 18 months and I had no job
00:37:24
so I had you know an hour two hours a
00:37:27
day where I wasn't doing much
00:37:29
you know and so that's where I started
00:37:30
doing all this and that's why I read so
00:37:33
much it wasn't actually like I was doing
00:37:35
anything freakish or weird I just was
00:37:37
using my time kind of wisely yeah and
00:37:40
when did um
00:37:42
you see you so you're on the beach in
00:37:43
the Bahamas you call your parents you
00:37:45
say I'm this this [ __ ] sucks if you
00:37:47
can't be happy swimming with the pigs
00:37:49
um so when like so I'm guessing that was
00:37:52
sort of like rock bottom or that was the
00:37:54
moment of realization where you thought
00:37:55
I got to do something about this
00:37:57
um so like when did you start therapy
00:37:58
and when did that how did that Journey
00:38:00
look look like for you
00:38:01
um so I only that only happened like
00:38:04
when you were back in NZ yeah so I was
00:38:06
only three months into my OE when the
00:38:09
Bahamas thing happened I was maybe only
00:38:10
like two and a half right but it all
00:38:12
kind of makes sense in hindsight because
00:38:14
that was exactly enough time where I had
00:38:16
kind of Switched Off I wasn't stressed
00:38:19
I wasn't busy you're forced to slow down
00:38:22
I was forced to slow down actually late
00:38:24
it was and that's kind of like it was
00:38:26
almost like this big water balloon and
00:38:27
then just went boom whereas my whole
00:38:29
life as I said like I was so busy that I
00:38:32
could just
00:38:33
you know it's like imagine if you kind
00:38:36
of had a breakup and everyone's like oh
00:38:38
just go be busy it's kind of like that
00:38:40
like I just distracted myself my whole
00:38:42
life but that's the thing with emotion
00:38:44
is that it has to come out in some way
00:38:47
you know you can't just no one because I
00:38:50
was like I'm so amazing with stress
00:38:52
because I would never get stressed and
00:38:54
if I got stressed I'd be really calm but
00:38:56
then I found out I was stressed 24 7 so
00:38:58
when I was stressed it wasn't doing
00:38:59
anything to me because I was already
00:39:01
you're always on the hyper alert yeah
00:39:03
yeah and there's I think it's
00:39:06
interesting because people sit there and
00:39:07
go oh that means you're pulling your
00:39:08
hair out every two seconds and it's not
00:39:10
like that it's just I was always busy
00:39:11
you know like but then adrenaline State
00:39:14
it's not it's not a good state to be in
00:39:15
no it's not a duration no it's terrible
00:39:17
for you and so
00:39:20
um yeah so I guess I came home and
00:39:25
I'd always known there was something a
00:39:27
little bit weird with me like if you ask
00:39:28
anyone that knows me
00:39:30
like if you ask anyone that actually
00:39:32
knows you not claim they do how would
00:39:34
you describe Mexico I guarantee that all
00:39:36
say intense that's kind of like what
00:39:39
most people like oh he's intense like
00:39:42
in a good or a bad way you know that
00:39:44
that's just how like I'm just full-on
00:39:45
like I talk heaps I'm always like
00:39:48
thinking of stuff like and so I always
00:39:51
knew there was something like a bit
00:39:52
weird not with the weird's the wrong
00:39:54
word there was always something I always
00:39:56
felt a little bit different but not
00:39:57
different in a way where because I have
00:39:59
really good social skills like I
00:40:01
wouldn't be scared in front of girls and
00:40:02
you know I wasn't like again my
00:40:05
definition of all these things because I
00:40:06
was sort of OCD was you said to be
00:40:08
really tidy but that's not what OCD I
00:40:11
have no yeah how does OCD look like for
00:40:14
you I have quite bad interests of
00:40:16
thought OCD and I think so I'm a chronic
00:40:18
overthinker right so it's really good in
00:40:20
aspects of my life you know that's why
00:40:22
I'm always in really good shape and I
00:40:24
feel like I run my business well and
00:40:26
I've had success like studying or
00:40:27
because I'm always thinking so much and
00:40:29
overthinking what could go wrong
00:40:31
that it makes me fixate on that stuff
00:40:34
but then
00:40:35
say when I have a girlfriend or I have
00:40:37
good things in my life I overthink all
00:40:39
the bad things that could happen and I
00:40:41
almost like self-destruct
00:40:43
and that's kind of the negative side of
00:40:44
it and that's when I got older I
00:40:46
realized whereas when you're younger
00:40:48
like well I just played sport I went to
00:40:50
school like
00:40:51
maybe I'd fixate on having a bad game or
00:40:53
you know like yeah whereas when you get
00:40:55
older you start actually realizing like
00:40:57
I became like a massive hypochondriac
00:40:59
like I'd get a heart palpitation and be
00:41:02
like Oh am I having a heart attack and
00:41:03
I'd like Google
00:41:05
symptoms of that or was that like an
00:41:07
anxiety attack
00:41:08
no I just feel anything in my body like
00:41:10
I get like a little pain in my head for
00:41:12
two seconds and I'd be like
00:41:14
like it I feel like stupid saying this
00:41:16
but I got to a point I'd be like I've
00:41:18
got like a like a brain tumor and I
00:41:21
would freak out or you get like gurgling
00:41:23
symptoms
00:41:25
you know and then I'd be like maybe I
00:41:28
should talk to my doctor but with OCD
00:41:29
you just Loop yeah you know and I'd sit
00:41:31
there and be like oh like what if the
00:41:34
doctor doesn't pick up on it and that's
00:41:35
the problem with OCD is there's no
00:41:37
answer
00:41:38
you just can keep asking the same
00:41:40
question over and over and over and so I
00:41:42
did all this my whole life like I always
00:41:44
ask for reassurance I'd always be
00:41:46
so like as a kid I was all and to bring
00:41:49
that to your question I've always been
00:41:50
anti-smoking like I've never smoked a
00:41:52
cigarette in my life never will
00:41:54
and as a kid would walk past someone
00:41:56
that would smoke I'd go like Mom Dad why
00:41:59
is that guy smoking they'll be like
00:42:00
because he's addicted I'd be like but
00:42:01
why is he addicted
00:42:03
and then I'll be like oh because he
00:42:04
wants to be and I'd be like well why it
00:42:06
kills you and I'd and so then I'd sort
00:42:08
that out and then we'd go 100 meters
00:42:10
we'll walk past another smoker be like
00:42:11
Mom Dad why is it and we told you
00:42:14
there was heaps of stuff like that as a
00:42:17
kid where
00:42:18
they didn't understand that that was
00:42:19
like OCD and I did I ever said how old
00:42:22
were you at the time because I feel like
00:42:23
it's common for kids to ask a million
00:42:25
questions of their parents and so that
00:42:26
was the thing so it was when I was young
00:42:28
but
00:42:29
I would ask like everywhere I go like
00:42:31
Jiu Jitsu School everyone's like he
00:42:34
asked way too many questions because I
00:42:35
just get so fixated on
00:42:38
like I have to learn but I do like weird
00:42:40
things to like say we're in like the
00:42:41
helicopter once and dad was talking to
00:42:44
like another guy because he's doing his
00:42:45
PPL and they were talking about the
00:42:47
engines Private Pilot
00:42:49
and they were talking about like the
00:42:51
engineering of you know the motor and I
00:42:54
sat there and had no value to add to the
00:42:56
conversation I felt like an idiot and I
00:42:57
literally went home and for like five
00:42:59
hours just studied like helicopter
00:43:01
engineering just in case you know like
00:43:04
so as a kid like my parents are like oh
00:43:07
he's just inquisitive and he just asked
00:43:09
a lot and so no one really
00:43:10
oh so you just never sort of grew out of
00:43:12
it like toddlers do eventually but no
00:43:15
one knew no one thought because it
00:43:17
wasn't like a problem you know as I said
00:43:18
it's a spectrum so I wasn't like
00:43:20
uncapable of folks saying I wasn't like
00:43:23
I was just intense and everyone just
00:43:25
thought I was full-on but then my dad's
00:43:26
really intense so yeah everyone's always
00:43:28
just like his dad and so it wasn't until
00:43:31
I got older and I started understanding
00:43:32
more that there were so many things I
00:43:34
was doing that were like OCD which I
00:43:36
just had no idea about
00:43:38
and
00:43:40
um
00:43:41
I think oh actually sorry there's one
00:43:43
thing that happened while I was
00:43:44
traveling so I caught the Bubonic plague
00:43:46
when I was in Bosnia
00:43:48
oh my God what year were you traveling
00:43:50
at 1885 I know so I was the first I
00:43:52
think I was the first person in New
00:43:53
Zealand since 1905 to get it
00:43:57
yeah it's called Yesenia it's like
00:44:00
Yesenia in Terror or something it seems
00:44:03
like the worst thing for a hypochondriac
00:44:04
to catch well that that's what caused
00:44:06
the hypochondria so and that's what so
00:44:09
apparently when you have like something
00:44:10
like lurking or that's like dormant if
00:44:13
you have like a really triggering event
00:44:15
that can
00:44:17
like offset or that can create the
00:44:19
problem so I was never as OCD as I like
00:44:22
am now and I was never a hypochondria I
00:44:24
was a little bit but never to any
00:44:27
extreme but I caught that and like
00:44:30
I wouldn't say I nearly died but I lost
00:44:31
like 15 20 kilos I was you know fainting
00:44:35
like it was all like truly literally
00:44:37
horrific but I couldn't eat food for
00:44:38
like nothing there no vaccine no nothing
00:44:41
they can no only like a couple hundred
00:44:43
people a year catcher it's really rare
00:44:45
and like so that was the problem I was
00:44:48
going to I ended up in hospital like
00:44:49
seven times I was traveling and every
00:44:51
time I'd go there'd be a list of like
00:44:53
200 things you could have and be like
00:44:56
number 200 because no one catches it and
00:44:58
so they were always like oh you're
00:45:00
dehydrated or you're this or you're
00:45:01
there and so no one could like fix me
00:45:03
and so that's what caused the
00:45:04
hypochondria because I was so nervous
00:45:07
because you know you can tell on your
00:45:09
body when something's going wrong and
00:45:11
you know it's got like a decently High
00:45:12
death rate and I was like a really
00:45:14
really fit 24 year old and caught it and
00:45:16
it absolutely hit me for six so if you
00:45:18
were 70 or 80 in court you can see how
00:45:20
it just destroyed you like for 18 months
00:45:23
my gut was just ruined like couldn't eat
00:45:26
I was throwing stuff up like almost got
00:45:28
IBS like
00:45:29
I was constantly getting like
00:45:31
gastroscopy he's like how is this even
00:45:33
still a thing like they they came up
00:45:35
with a vaccine for covert in a couple of
00:45:37
years yeah well it's basically it's not
00:45:39
the exact same as to be on a plague
00:45:41
where you get bitten by like a mosquito
00:45:43
but
00:45:44
if you drink contaminated water that has
00:45:46
I think copper in it right and then I
00:45:48
ate pork that had eaten or drank the
00:45:51
water
00:45:52
and so there's like two weird it's
00:45:54
either contaminated water or really bad
00:45:56
yeah Peg like pork that's eaten it it
00:45:59
was in like we're in Sarajevo and kind
00:46:01
of like a stay-over thing with like a
00:46:03
we're like a local family's house and
00:46:04
you know so I'd say it's probably from
00:46:07
something like that but I mean you take
00:46:09
that risk when you travel you know it's
00:46:11
um
00:46:12
but I think that's what yeah really
00:46:14
unsettled me was I didn't know what was
00:46:15
going wrong and I was going to all these
00:46:17
Specialists and they kept telling me was
00:46:18
something wrong with you but I'm sitting
00:46:20
there like there's definitely something
00:46:22
wrong I literally felt like I was dying
00:46:23
like especially if you're if you're if
00:46:24
you're in as in tune with your own body
00:46:26
as what you were you know then I knew
00:46:28
something really bad and I'm calling my
00:46:29
parents I'm like we'll go to the doctor
00:46:30
I go to the doctor and they'd be like
00:46:31
there's nothing wrong with you drink
00:46:32
some water
00:46:33
and so then I finally got to the point
00:46:35
where because I was having all these
00:46:36
arguments with my parents they were like
00:46:37
we'll come home and get everything
00:46:39
tested so I literally did every test
00:46:41
Under the Sun and then that's when they
00:46:43
discovered that like holy like you've
00:46:45
had this thing called Yesenia and even
00:46:47
my doctor like had to Google it because
00:46:48
apparently it's the first thing you
00:46:49
learn on day one of like medical school
00:46:51
they're like you're never gonna need
00:46:52
this they start at number 200 and
00:46:54
working yeah and so yeah and but it was
00:46:58
one of those things where once you've
00:47:00
got it they can't do anything you just
00:47:01
have to kind of go through it and so
00:47:04
the remnants of it all was I became a
00:47:06
hypochondriac because I sat there and
00:47:08
went oh like what if I died and so I
00:47:10
started getting like started freaking
00:47:11
out about death and
00:47:13
you know my health and I just kind of
00:47:15
became is that those fears of death with
00:47:18
this thing were they rational or is that
00:47:19
irrational well it's probably the OCD
00:47:21
you know it's probably just the
00:47:22
uncertainty of it all yeah and it made
00:47:24
me realize just how fragile everything
00:47:25
is and
00:47:27
you know because I think in New Zealand
00:47:28
we do live quite sheltered lives you
00:47:30
know you don't sit there and
00:47:32
um you know you don't really think about
00:47:34
the [ __ ] plague no you don't yeah no
00:47:37
no so but I um I um I went to see a
00:47:42
therapist um for a while I'm not on
00:47:43
therapy at the moment but it was one of
00:47:45
the hardest things I've ever done but
00:47:46
one of the best things as well and while
00:47:47
I was there I was like why the [ __ ] did
00:47:49
I take so long to embark on this tuning
00:47:51
because one of the it's like a personal
00:47:53
trainer for your [ __ ] head well
00:47:54
that's the thing like this this
00:47:56
therapist said to me one day when you're
00:47:57
when you're having like a ridiculous or
00:47:59
irrational thoughts or you're in a
00:48:00
critical your inner voice is going crazy
00:48:02
and you realize you're doing it pull
00:48:04
yourself up and just ask yourself is
00:48:06
this helping yeah it never is but were
00:48:09
you able to do that or no so that that's
00:48:11
the whole kind of like therapy process
00:48:13
was
00:48:14
now I get to a point where I go is this
00:48:17
fact or opinion
00:48:18
if it's a opinion I just ignore it
00:48:21
and so just with your own thoughts on
00:48:23
the things that you yeah so I'm sitting
00:48:25
there and I'm going am I because it
00:48:27
started with hypochondria but then it
00:48:29
would you know it evolved into like
00:48:30
heaps of different like anything with
00:48:32
uncertainty I'd start
00:48:33
yeah because nothing but what you
00:48:35
realize is nothing in life's uncertain
00:48:36
that I could be like see you next week
00:48:38
but you might get hit by a bus or I
00:48:40
might fall off a cliff or you know the
00:48:42
world might explode who doesn't you know
00:48:44
it might be 99 certain but there's
00:48:46
nothing that's actually certain whereas
00:48:48
with OCD you try get certainty about
00:48:51
everything
00:48:52
and so you don't realize how many things
00:48:54
in life are actually uncertain and so I
00:48:58
think you just start to fix it like
00:48:59
everyone fixates on different things so
00:49:01
you know some people might be light
00:49:02
switches and they go oh if I don't turn
00:49:05
that off the house is going to blow up
00:49:06
and then I might kill my kid or you know
00:49:08
they you just start having all these
00:49:09
crazy thoughts yeah and it seems um like
00:49:12
crystal clear in your mind that that is
00:49:14
going to be the outcome well it's a
00:49:15
rationalize it is because it's
00:49:16
triggering your like amygdala which is
00:49:18
your like fight or flight and so in time
00:49:21
you learn
00:49:23
you know and obviously I have different
00:49:25
I go through different patches you know
00:49:26
if I'm really stressed or something's
00:49:28
really bothering me I find it harder to
00:49:30
manage but you know for quite a while a
00:49:33
couple years now I've been pretty in
00:49:34
tune with it all yeah so that's good and
00:49:36
you're in a good place now what's your
00:49:37
like in a voice and a Critic like now
00:49:39
pretty good yeah I mean I'm so I'm I'm
00:49:42
really tough on myself like I have
00:49:43
really high expectations of myself and
00:49:46
you know I kind of I am a bit of a
00:49:48
perfectionist I think
00:49:51
um so I struggle to do things in halves
00:49:53
you know I'm either really really
00:49:55
focused on something or I'm not is it a
00:49:57
bit that's not a bad thing is that a bad
00:49:59
thing well this is what is it just
00:50:01
annoying I I it's I had Lisa Carrington
00:50:03
sitting in the same chair last week New
00:50:05
Zealand's greatest ever Olympian and she
00:50:07
she was the same sort of thing whatever
00:50:08
whatever she does she wants to do well
00:50:10
like uh you know there's the kayaking
00:50:12
obviously um but even if she's like like
00:50:14
cooking a pizza for her and her husband
00:50:16
at home like she wants to be make it
00:50:18
really [ __ ] good well that what what
00:50:20
my like counselor said was that
00:50:22
almost every highly successful business
00:50:25
or Sportsman will have some form of
00:50:27
thing
00:50:28
you know because to be that good at
00:50:31
something you have to be obsessed but I
00:50:33
feel like it's probably healthy or good
00:50:34
to have some things that you just [ __ ]
00:50:35
at and you're happy to be shitty well
00:50:37
that's why I started Jujitsu yeah but
00:50:40
then you got obsess with it yeah yeah
00:50:42
okay all right well let's get into that
00:50:44
now so you so you it's the most Joe
00:50:47
Rogan thing ever so you you Rogan goes
00:50:49
on and on about you Johnson this podcast
00:50:51
froths about it so you was this a New
00:50:53
Year's resolution or kind of I
00:50:57
I was dating a girl last year and we
00:50:58
broke up and over summer I was like kind
00:51:00
of up north my parents and
00:51:02
just kind of cruising really and I was
00:51:05
listening to quite a few of his podcasts
00:51:06
and
00:51:07
it wasn't necessarily that he was just
00:51:09
going about Jiu Jitsu and was like you
00:51:11
should do it because to be blunt we need
00:51:12
to talk about it I actually used to skip
00:51:14
those votes because I just didn't
00:51:17
like I'm just not and like I was never
00:51:20
that kid that wrestled with his mates
00:51:21
growing up and like I'm not a
00:51:23
confrontational dude and it's not stuff
00:51:25
that I actually
00:51:27
it's not really something I'm That Into
00:51:28
You know my dad was never like that with
00:51:30
me I never had Brothers like I just kind
00:51:33
of don't I always loved like Ball Sports
00:51:34
and that kind of thing
00:51:36
but anyway so what actually got me
00:51:38
hooked on it was
00:51:40
have you heard of Jocko willink no you
00:51:43
should listen to him he's like awesome
00:51:44
so he's a Navy SEAL and he does like
00:51:46
these really cool motivational talks and
00:51:48
he's been on Joe Rogan a lot that
00:51:49
they're really good friends and he's a
00:51:50
black belt in Jiu Jitsu he was talking
00:51:52
about goal sitting and so he talks about
00:51:55
say that I come to you or I set myself a
00:51:57
goal and I go I want to do 50 pull-ups
00:51:59
by the end of the year
00:52:00
and say that I get to like 46 by the end
00:52:04
of the year and that I get to the point
00:52:06
where to do those final four I'd have to
00:52:09
lose 10 kilos stop training and stop
00:52:12
working because I have to do all this
00:52:14
other stuff just to achieve this like
00:52:16
tiny incremental goal
00:52:18
he's kind of saying that as much as you
00:52:20
want to always set out to achieve what
00:52:23
you want to do there's also a point
00:52:25
where is that tiny gain that you're
00:52:27
getting worth abandoning everything else
00:52:29
in your life and so he talks about you
00:52:32
constantly need to revise your goals
00:52:34
but you need to be
00:52:36
at least you know in your head thinking
00:52:39
you know could stay with you with your
00:52:40
Marathon running you could easily be
00:52:42
like I got to 30k and it was tough so oh
00:52:45
that's close enough you know like he's
00:52:47
not saying like do that but it was say
00:52:49
that if you wanted to be half an hour
00:52:52
quicker in your Marathon you had to stop
00:52:53
podcasting stop your job have no friends
00:52:56
and never eat anything nice yeah it's
00:52:58
opportunity cost or lost isn't it yeah
00:53:00
so it it's just weighing it up it's not
00:53:03
necessarily saying quit all your goals
00:53:04
before you achieve stuff because
00:53:05
obviously you still need to achieve but
00:53:07
is that worth it and so and that's kind
00:53:11
of like part of what I thought with
00:53:12
social media like is this adding but
00:53:15
anyway so what Joe then replied to that
00:53:18
is he goes that's really true and he's
00:53:19
like the best way to constantly be
00:53:21
growing and developing your brain
00:53:23
because it's kind of like a muscle is to
00:53:25
constantly be really crap at something
00:53:27
because that feeling of being terrible
00:53:31
it forces you to evolve and that that's
00:53:35
what got me into it I was like and
00:53:38
that's what he was saying is amazing
00:53:39
with Jiu Jitsu was he's like I've been
00:53:40
doing it for like 20 years or how long
00:53:42
he's been doing it I'm a black belt but
00:53:44
every day I learned something new and
00:53:46
every day I feel vulnerable and every
00:53:47
day there's someone choking me out and
00:53:49
making me feel uncomfortable and that's
00:53:51
kind of what got me hooked was it was
00:53:53
like
00:53:54
what I hate is I feel like I get so
00:53:56
obsessed with things that I like suck
00:53:58
the life out of them and then I feel
00:54:01
like I've like cracked it yeah like with
00:54:03
baseball I got to a point where I was in
00:54:04
the New Zealand team I was training
00:54:06
really hard I wanted to go to America
00:54:07
but like I was never going to be the
00:54:09
next Derek Judah but I had already done
00:54:12
pretty well like in New Zealand or you
00:54:14
know I'd get into golf and I'd got to
00:54:16
scratch and you know I could it's not
00:54:18
going to be tiger or yeah Ryan Fox no
00:54:21
that's the thing and like I was playing
00:54:22
with like guys like Ryan you know I was
00:54:24
in that Circle and but I wasn't quite
00:54:26
there and so I kind of did that with
00:54:28
everything in life where I was like I'm
00:54:30
what's the like saying where you like a
00:54:32
master at everything but a a jack of all
00:54:34
trades master of none master of none
00:54:36
yeah I was kind of like that like I was
00:54:37
kind of like all around pretty good at a
00:54:39
lot of things but I wasn't like epic or
00:54:42
anything
00:54:42
and I think it was because I would get
00:54:44
to that point where it was like I either
00:54:46
had to say with golf I got to a point
00:54:48
where I had to stop business and work if
00:54:50
I wanted to compete with those guys that
00:54:52
did it full time so then I get to a
00:54:53
point where I'm like ah something would
00:54:55
switch my brain I go I'm not really that
00:54:57
into that now so I still play every now
00:54:59
and then I can still do well but I lose
00:55:01
that like
00:55:02
that intense passion just to be like
00:55:05
insanely good at it which is what will
00:55:07
motivate me and so do you think if you
00:55:10
if you found something that you enjoyed
00:55:11
and you stuck with it and you kept at it
00:55:14
um you'd eventually like break through
00:55:15
and get to that next level well that's
00:55:16
where I'm with my business right
00:55:18
yeah
00:55:19
and so that's like why I love it so much
00:55:23
um and to me it's something like I see
00:55:24
myself doing a long time yeah yeah
00:55:28
um I want to get to the business but
00:55:29
first year first of all the Jiu Jitsu
00:55:31
thing so you start in like January this
00:55:32
year about February February yeah and um
00:55:35
and then then before long you're going
00:55:37
like twice a day yeah so I started geez
00:55:41
you're all you are all or nothing yes so
00:55:43
yeah my parents always make like a joke
00:55:45
like I got back into swimming I used to
00:55:48
swim quite a lot and I um
00:55:50
I kind of started going like twice a
00:55:52
week and then I started going like six
00:55:54
times a week but Dad was literally like
00:55:56
a head a bit with mum how long it would
00:55:58
take before like because I was like I'm
00:56:00
gonna go to the Masters games and like
00:56:01
then covert Heaven signed it up stopping
00:56:03
that but is it an addictive personality
00:56:06
so I'm really weird like I am super
00:56:09
addictive but then like
00:56:11
you know I'd never drank like yeah yeah
00:56:13
good addictions yeah well good and bad
00:56:16
like I think when you're too I get so
00:56:19
focused that sometimes I don't have fun
00:56:21
at things like say with golf I got to a
00:56:24
point where you know I could like break
00:56:26
power or you know play really well but
00:56:28
I'd be like kicking myself that I shot
00:56:30
one over whereas five years earlier if I
00:56:32
played with Dad socially and I shot 90
00:56:34
yeah I'd have the best day ever yeah you
00:56:37
know so now I'm trying to learn how to
00:56:38
like like I go out with my friends on
00:56:40
Fridays now and I play and I don't care
00:56:42
what I shoot and I'm not trying to be
00:56:45
yeah just try literally have fun with it
00:56:48
and so that's been something I really
00:56:50
struggle with but like you're aware it's
00:56:53
an issue and you're working on it but
00:56:55
see with the Jujitsu I started I was
00:56:57
going probably two three I think when
00:57:00
you start they like recommend that you
00:57:02
start like twice a week for a couple
00:57:03
weeks because you use all these muscles
00:57:05
like you don't even know existed so what
00:57:07
what is it like like wrestling on a map
00:57:08
is it kind of resting on a map how would
00:57:10
you say for someone that's listening to
00:57:12
this that's got no idea what Jiu Jitsu
00:57:14
is is there a way you could sum it up in
00:57:16
a sentence or two it's like a
00:57:17
ground-based grappling system
00:57:20
um so in in competition you start on
00:57:23
your feet so it's kind of like a
00:57:25
combination of Judo takedowns with like
00:57:27
wrestling sort of it is light wrestling
00:57:29
but there's submissions so you know
00:57:31
you're like I'm buying people need locks
00:57:33
choking people
00:57:36
um
00:57:36
but it's what's awesome about it is it's
00:57:39
designed so that I could be way smaller
00:57:41
than you but I use your body weight
00:57:42
against you
00:57:44
so it's actually
00:57:46
entirely practical you know every night
00:57:48
I roll with guys that you know maybe 30
00:57:50
kilos heavier than me and I can have a
00:57:52
like good spa with them and
00:57:53
you know it's like one of very very few
00:57:55
Combat Sports where I can go full to
00:57:57
every night whereas with like boxing
00:58:00
like you can't get punched in the face
00:58:01
yeah the bigger means always going to
00:58:03
win yeah and like you can't get smacked
00:58:05
in the head every night you know you'd
00:58:06
end up branded yeah whereas like with
00:58:08
this sport you can go because you tap so
00:58:11
anytime obviously like injuries happen
00:58:13
and mistakes happen but you can train
00:58:15
really really hard every night which
00:58:17
that's what I think is really cool about
00:58:18
it and I think
00:58:20
what's also awesome is you're fighting a
00:58:22
real person every night whereas you know
00:58:25
with like karate or some of these other
00:58:26
things
00:58:27
a lot of it's more learning like the
00:58:29
technique behind it but
00:58:31
I'm not taking anything away from those
00:58:33
forces no no you've just found your
00:58:34
thing yeah I just think for me it's like
00:58:37
there's a lot of genuine self-defense
00:58:40
principles you learn and I think a lot
00:58:43
of fights especially in New Zealand end
00:58:44
up on the ground you know and if someone
00:58:46
was to take me to the ground two years
00:58:48
ago I'd have no idea and that happened
00:58:50
to me in Croatia I got jumped by kind of
00:58:52
like four or five guys I've got the
00:58:54
labor supporters but yeah I just got
00:58:57
like the ship bid now to me and did you
00:58:59
actually yeah well like like when they
00:59:01
they stole your money shoes what they
00:59:02
they tried to yeah right
00:59:04
um and that was another thing that kind
00:59:06
of triggered my anxiety a completely
00:59:07
random thing they they weren't new
00:59:09
zealanders or anything though no idea
00:59:11
who I was and
00:59:13
um you hear about that stuff happening
00:59:14
overseas it's like we're talking before
00:59:15
you I mean you have to take when you
00:59:17
travel yesterday calculated risks well
00:59:19
that's the thing where you ate the pork
00:59:20
yeah yeah yeah I mean if if you sat
00:59:23
there and when I'm never going to try
00:59:24
anything or do anything different
00:59:26
because I don't want you know the risk
00:59:28
it's not a life nah and that's the thing
00:59:30
like I think the funnest things in life
00:59:32
are where
00:59:33
you know there is a bit of danger or not
00:59:35
danger but you know like you have to
00:59:36
like try new things and that's the whole
00:59:38
in my eyes that's why you travel I want
00:59:39
a new experiences and
00:59:42
um so is the Jujitsu going to be after
00:59:44
having this conversation with you it's I
00:59:46
can see the way you light up when you
00:59:48
talk about Jiu Jitsu but with everything
00:59:50
else that's been set up part of me is
00:59:51
worried you're going to get to a year
00:59:52
and like just go oh that's this I'm
00:59:55
never going to be the best in the world
00:59:56
and I'm done
00:59:58
well I feel like you've found your piece
01:00:00
with it where you can just keep where to
01:00:01
be part of your life forever or well
01:00:03
that's where I feel I mean like I went
01:00:05
to World Champs I didn't win
01:00:07
I mean it was that was tough because I
01:00:09
have only been doing a short amount of
01:00:11
time and the guy lost who was like five
01:00:13
years yeah to make to go to the world
01:00:14
Champs after doing it seven eight months
01:00:16
whatever it was yeah it sounds
01:00:17
remarkable no I was pretty stoked and I
01:00:19
did another tournament in Texas that I
01:00:20
came second at and that was like almost
01:00:22
as big as the worlds and
01:00:24
um yeah so like I I feel like I've
01:00:26
progressed like really fast for I mean
01:00:29
it's such a humbling sport like I get
01:00:31
the crap in out of me every night by
01:00:33
everyone you know and
01:00:35
the moment you feel like you're getting
01:00:37
a tiny bit better you just get smoked
01:00:38
again
01:00:40
um but to me I love the mental side of
01:00:42
it I know it sounds like really corny
01:00:44
but I don't know like
01:00:46
it's bizarre say you have some
01:00:50
120 kilo
01:00:52
just monster on top of you most nights
01:00:55
most nights yeah like choking the [ __ ]
01:00:57
out of you you learned how to like last
01:00:59
night I was like in this triangle which
01:01:01
is where people wrap their legs around
01:01:03
your neck and they like squeeze it down
01:01:04
it's awful like all the blood goes to
01:01:07
your head and you think you're gonna die
01:01:08
like but you learn to just sit there and
01:01:12
breathe and I sat there and because come
01:01:15
up with it what sit there pause and come
01:01:17
up with the strategy of how to get out
01:01:18
of it yeah because it's it's literally
01:01:20
like chess and that is why I love it so
01:01:22
much so say I go to fake like a sweep on
01:01:26
you where I'm like oh I'm gonna scissor
01:01:27
sweep you left I might set that up so
01:01:29
then you put all your weight on your
01:01:30
right leg and then I go do something
01:01:33
completely different and I baited you
01:01:35
into defending that so I attack you with
01:01:37
something different it's kind of like
01:01:38
that like I might make you look left so
01:01:40
I go right it's literally like a step in
01:01:42
rugby but with Jiu Jitsu there might be
01:01:44
eight attacks and so the black belts
01:01:46
might be faking like seven things
01:01:48
whereas I might only know three and
01:01:49
that's why the higher belts smoke
01:01:51
yourself so what color ability unit I'm
01:01:53
still white but I'm pretty close to my
01:01:54
blue right which takes normally about
01:01:56
two three years it says white the first
01:01:57
one yeah oh so you're in like a white
01:01:59
belt division at the world champs yeah
01:02:01
okay but
01:02:03
that's where like
01:02:05
it's interesting it works because you
01:02:06
get guys that like the guy I lost who
01:02:08
got promoted to Blue on the podium
01:02:11
so you know he's like a blue belt that
01:02:12
you know he'd been a white belt for five
01:02:14
years whereas you can be a purple belt
01:02:16
you nearly be black after five years
01:02:18
right so so there's there's no way of
01:02:20
accelerating the process you just you
01:02:21
have to do your time on each color it's
01:02:23
time yeah [ __ ] that must drive you crazy
01:02:25
the white and blue is skill but it
01:02:29
usually takes about two three years but
01:02:31
since I was training so much hopefully
01:02:33
do it in about a year yeah but yeah it's
01:02:35
the same when I get to Blue it's two and
01:02:36
a half years like you have to it's like
01:02:38
a you just have to be patient yeah are
01:02:40
you not very good at being patient
01:02:41
terrible yeah I'm the same yeah like how
01:02:44
much you like they're still tomorrow
01:02:45
they're still right now
01:02:47
um but that that's why I think I love it
01:02:49
so much as I
01:02:50
you know it's like what I was saying how
01:02:52
you learn how to breathe like
01:02:54
in a weird way you sit there and say
01:02:56
something really stressful happens at
01:02:57
work or like with someone you're dating
01:02:59
or
01:03:00
I don't know what it is it's just
01:03:02
subconsciously you sit there and go well
01:03:03
this isn't as bad as getting choked by
01:03:06
but you know like like with that dude's
01:03:09
thighs around my neck yeah so it's like
01:03:11
it's so weird you just go oh like
01:03:15
and like say like last night I remember
01:03:16
like when that guy was doing that it was
01:03:18
awful lot and I was so close to tapping
01:03:20
and I went because it's like this weird
01:03:22
thing where say if I'm squeezing your
01:03:23
neck to actually choke you generally
01:03:26
well not in every position but some you
01:03:28
really have to like
01:03:29
you know really Flex for like a little
01:03:31
bit or put heaps of pressure on so let's
01:03:34
say anything if you try to help me for
01:03:35
10 seconds there's a point where like
01:03:37
your forearms are going to give way so
01:03:39
it's like this game where like lots of
01:03:41
guys you fight will be expressionless so
01:03:43
you might be like a second away from
01:03:45
tapping them but you go oh it's not
01:03:47
working like I'm not in deep enough or I
01:03:48
don't know the grip right so you'll let
01:03:50
it go
01:03:51
but you might have been like a second
01:03:52
away from then tapping and so
01:03:55
that's like the kind of art of it is
01:03:58
you know
01:03:59
when you're having a poker face that's a
01:04:01
full poke face yeah and so the really
01:04:03
good guys you roll with you won't know
01:04:04
you're hurting them yeah because they'll
01:04:06
just be like and yeah different sport
01:04:07
but um at the time we're recording this
01:04:09
uh Israel out of Sanya lost his fight a
01:04:11
couple of days ago and just before that
01:04:12
was called off he was just getting
01:04:13
smacked in the face repeatedly bang bang
01:04:16
bang and he even I don't know maybe he
01:04:18
was on a different planet but he was
01:04:20
showing no no emotion yeah no emotion
01:04:22
and all not even flinching no well he I
01:04:25
saw something where he hurt the nerve I
01:04:28
think in his knee oh is that so on the
01:04:29
kick right if you re-watch it because we
01:04:31
when when he did the kick we're all like
01:04:32
oh that didn't I thought he'd broken his
01:04:34
leg
01:04:35
but
01:04:36
like imagine how much that would have
01:04:38
hurt
01:04:39
like just imagine that like yeah I don't
01:04:42
care how much adrenaline like he would
01:04:43
have been in a world of pain like that
01:04:45
was half the reason I think he got
01:04:47
Corner because I he was saying he
01:04:48
couldn't pivot and you know if you like
01:04:50
did all the yeah you'd be stuck but
01:04:53
that's the point is if he sits there and
01:04:54
goes oh my knees really sore then the
01:04:56
guy's just gonna murder him yeah punish
01:04:57
that knee Target that knee repeatedly
01:04:59
yeah and so that's kind of like the art
01:05:01
of it is you know showing no no emotion
01:05:04
and so you kind of learn say like I
01:05:08
guess where I'm going with this is when
01:05:09
I was in that position you know that if
01:05:11
you can survive
01:05:13
however long that may be you just don't
01:05:15
give up you know that they'll eventually
01:05:17
give up because
01:05:19
there's only so long you like imagine if
01:05:21
I said squeeze your bicep as hard as you
01:05:22
can there's a point where you're going
01:05:24
to stop because it just hurts and you're
01:05:26
gonna go oh what's not working
01:05:27
and so that's what I love about it is it
01:05:30
teaches me that patience and you sit
01:05:32
there and that camp I did was the most
01:05:34
awful thing I've ever done in my life
01:05:35
Mike
01:05:37
by a mile like and what was that how
01:05:39
long was the camp it was five four and a
01:05:41
half months right and I was training 10
01:05:44
to 12 three oh six till nine every night
01:05:48
oh my God every day that's your life
01:05:51
revolving around this literally well
01:05:53
because the property Market was a bit
01:05:54
dead and we were kind of in that
01:05:56
transition where I was moving mtk into
01:05:58
Stonewood key
01:06:00
um and so it was quite a quiet like
01:06:02
period for me I was still busy but you
01:06:04
know I but that was the thing I was
01:06:06
working like six or ten one till five
01:06:08
and then I was training six storms I had
01:06:10
no life I was actually training sleeping
01:06:13
eating working that's all I did like no
01:06:15
drinking no partying no friends like did
01:06:17
you enjoy it though or did you hate
01:06:19
every minute of it I loved it did you
01:06:21
like kind of sick way yeah it was weird
01:06:23
it was awful but it was awesome and
01:06:26
it would
01:06:27
I I had this weird thing when I was kid
01:06:29
I always wanted to be like a fighter jet
01:06:31
pilot or in the SAS but I'm like
01:06:33
ruthlessly colorblind and so couldn't
01:06:35
really probably still could have done
01:06:37
the SAS but I guess
01:06:38
I don't know I'd
01:06:40
it's something I regret not trying to do
01:06:44
um but I think because
01:06:46
we met a lot of the guys like through
01:06:48
dad and
01:06:50
I don't know I I didn't get talked out
01:06:52
of it but they were kind of like it's
01:06:53
brutal you know like yeah yeah you're
01:06:57
talking about like William I didn't meet
01:06:59
her but um yeah I mean the training is
01:07:01
next I'm guessing essays is similar to
01:07:03
Navy Seals on what are some docos about
01:07:05
that I think it's worse almost yeah
01:07:06
really because it's like the most
01:07:08
respected yeah [ __ ] that why would you
01:07:10
want that well and I think that was the
01:07:11
thing whereas I sat there and went like
01:07:12
oh it looks awesome and all that but
01:07:14
there's a side of it you know like
01:07:16
psychology yeah yeah and like it really
01:07:19
affects me I have you know crazy amounts
01:07:22
of respect for those guys and what you
01:07:23
know they do for the country and just
01:07:25
what they put themselves through and I
01:07:26
think when you're again young you don't
01:07:28
realize that you know it's impossible to
01:07:30
have well it's really hard to have a
01:07:31
family and the psychological effects and
01:07:34
so I didn't really think about that
01:07:35
whereas I guess
01:07:37
I got to be exposed to a bit of that so
01:07:39
it made me realize maybe it's not
01:07:41
as cool as the good bit seems yeah I'd
01:07:45
always had this weird thing where I like
01:07:46
really the idea of like doing the Navy
01:07:48
SEAL camp or something like really
01:07:50
intense like that kind of really excited
01:07:52
me I don't know why and so
01:07:56
when I kind of got because I I was doing
01:07:59
like pretty well at Jiu Jitsu like at
01:08:01
the start like I'm quite athletic so I
01:08:02
was like quite coordinated so I was
01:08:04
picking it up quite quick and
01:08:05
I kind of said since I'm like oh I'm
01:08:07
kind of keen to compete and he's like oh
01:08:09
yeah well I was gonna like invite you to
01:08:10
Worlds with us this year because I think
01:08:12
you could do really well but you got to
01:08:14
commit to this camp and it's going to be
01:08:15
the most awful thing you're doing
01:08:17
so I was kind of like yeah bring it on
01:08:18
like you know as I said I was never like
01:08:21
a wrestler or a fighter or
01:08:23
and so there's like just some weird
01:08:26
thing in my brain that would be kind of
01:08:27
cool to become like a bit of a ninja and
01:08:29
you know be a bit tougher and know how
01:08:31
to defend myself and just
01:08:33
I just wanted to go through something
01:08:34
really hard I don't know why I just
01:08:37
build more resilience yeah and so it was
01:08:40
awful like I broke my finger the first
01:08:43
week I think I broke I broke my rib like
01:08:45
two months in I caught covert a month
01:08:47
and
01:08:49
um
01:08:50
like I got tennis elbow my right arm
01:08:53
and then on top of all that you're just
01:08:55
getting the absolute because I was crap
01:08:57
then like you know and I feel I'm still
01:08:59
very bad now but yeah you're never going
01:09:02
to be worse than what you are on that
01:09:03
very first yeah and I was terrible I had
01:09:05
no idea what I was doing like absolutely
01:09:07
no idea I was still learning all the
01:09:08
basics like now now I'm at the point
01:09:10
where I'm close to my blue belt and I
01:09:12
have like I kind of know a little bit
01:09:15
about everything but nothing at the same
01:09:17
time like I I could show you all the
01:09:19
kind of moves I'd do them badly but I
01:09:21
understand it all and then from now it's
01:09:23
all like how many hours everything
01:09:24
you've done now like a few hundred oh
01:09:26
yeah I did 170 classes right which were
01:09:29
two hours so right so it's 340 there and
01:09:33
then I was I went to America for six
01:09:34
weeks and I was like living at a um at a
01:09:37
school over there I was training late
01:09:38
the whole day yeah wow um and then you
01:09:40
know there's all the gym work on top of
01:09:42
all that I saw Jimmy three times a week
01:09:43
and you know his side
01:09:46
yeah anyway so the training was
01:09:50
like just brutal like absolutely brutal
01:09:53
and
01:09:54
you know there were days I I'd be in the
01:09:56
car crying and like I couldn't feel my
01:09:58
arm and like my robe was in the cat were
01:10:00
you driving yourself like going home I'd
01:10:02
be like crawling into beard like I call
01:10:05
my Dad or Mom be like Oh I'm in so much
01:10:07
pain they're like well you're a [ __ ]
01:10:09
idiot why are you doing this you know
01:10:10
like they had no sympathy for me that's
01:10:12
amazing so I couldn't tell you the last
01:10:13
time I cried from um physical pain like
01:10:15
emotional emotional pain or even like
01:10:17
happy tears I'll cry but really you were
01:10:20
just like that broken I like mentally
01:10:22
and physically because I'm not a crier
01:10:23
like yeah it was just I mean I cry like
01:10:26
at funerals and yeah of course you know
01:10:28
but I'm not
01:10:30
like as I said I'm pretty in tune with
01:10:32
high emotion oh I'm pretty good at like
01:10:33
numbing it out but man like you do 10
01:10:36
rounds of six minutes after two hours of
01:10:38
training and a gym workout and Technical
01:10:40
Training in the morning and it's not
01:10:43
like when you're bad at golf and you
01:10:44
miss a putt and you feel like an idiot
01:10:46
you're getting choked and there's some
01:10:48
guy trying to break your arm and you
01:10:49
have a broken rib and then you just suck
01:10:53
well you give me a three pack any day
01:10:55
yeah and then you yeah take a four pack
01:10:57
and then you stand up and you've got
01:10:59
skin saving like you crap like you need
01:11:01
to work harder you're this or that and
01:11:03
you're just like
01:11:04
because they're just trying to break you
01:11:05
because it's all developing that like
01:11:06
mental touch
01:11:08
and there were some days where you know
01:11:10
you'd just be in the car and everything
01:11:12
hurt and it's 10 p.m and it was Winter
01:11:14
and you're just like why am I doing this
01:11:16
like literally why like
01:11:19
and I just got what kept you at it then
01:11:22
I don't know that sounds awful yeah well
01:11:24
like since they kind of like got us in
01:11:26
front of the whole school and he's like
01:11:28
I give him three weeks before he quit
01:11:29
and I like you're not allowed to talk
01:11:31
like it's very oh yeah yeah master and
01:11:34
Apprentice yeah very and I was like I'll
01:11:36
die before I quit in front of the holes
01:11:38
did they have like a bell like the Navy
01:11:39
cell Navy no no it's not it's not that
01:11:42
bad but because not that many people do
01:11:43
the games right but it's very like the
01:11:46
whole school knows you're doing the comp
01:11:47
and you know it's very like the comp
01:11:50
squad's like because my Sensei you know
01:11:52
I was like one six-time Oceania champ
01:11:54
and he's very respected you know he's a
01:11:56
fifth degree black belt do you think um
01:11:58
just going back to him saying in front
01:11:59
of the class that he gives you three
01:12:01
weeks or whatever do you think um you've
01:12:03
obviously you've estimate more time with
01:12:04
him now you've got more of a
01:12:05
relationship as part of that psychology
01:12:07
like you'll take you differently to
01:12:09
different yeah oh nobody say that to
01:12:11
anyone he's very like tough love yeah
01:12:14
and so in a weird way when he
01:12:19
like sure loves you he's meaner to you
01:12:22
so he I would say I get picked on more
01:12:25
at training and he's harder on me than
01:12:27
he is on other people
01:12:29
like he has high expectations of me
01:12:32
whereas there's other people that he's
01:12:33
way nicer to but he probably got you
01:12:35
yeah
01:12:37
in a weird way like my dad was like that
01:12:39
like he was really tough on me like our
01:12:41
relationship's got him better but he was
01:12:42
really like that when I was younger
01:12:44
and so
01:12:46
what was your dad like with your sister
01:12:49
it was a lot easier on here very
01:12:51
different relationship yeah I think
01:12:53
that's that's like that with a lot of
01:12:54
dads either they treat their sons
01:12:55
differently to daughters yeah very like
01:12:57
me
01:12:58
me and my sister are like bipolar
01:12:59
opposites like she's like blonde hair
01:13:01
blue-eyed Arty like loves Europe and big
01:13:05
cities and hates the warm I'm like super
01:13:09
sporty like just completely it's amazing
01:13:12
it's like but I think you find that with
01:13:14
any sort of like sibling base it's like
01:13:16
I can't believe we're [ __ ] related we
01:13:17
are so so different yeah but we are life
01:13:20
so yeah because you know how you see
01:13:21
some people like they all three of them
01:13:23
look the same they look exactly like
01:13:25
half of the parents yeah yeah oh that's
01:13:27
so sweet I like we couldn't be more
01:13:30
dissimilar because you're 27 she's older
01:13:32
than you yeah she's nearly 30. 30.
01:13:34
what's what's your relationship like you
01:13:36
see much of each other or you just have
01:13:37
like a family group chat that you
01:13:39
message on you've got a family you're
01:13:41
quite close or not particularly we go
01:13:42
through phases like growing up I don't
01:13:44
think we were but I think we were so
01:13:46
dissimilar that like with nothing in
01:13:48
common like literally nothing whereas
01:13:50
now
01:13:51
you know she'll talk to me about
01:13:53
Jiu-Jitsu and you know she'll
01:13:55
be interested in my business and I'll
01:13:57
talk about you know the stuff she's into
01:13:59
what happens when you're out I'll tell
01:14:01
you yeah yeah my age Gap becomes less
01:14:02
and less yeah and I think
01:14:04
you know we can both talk about like
01:14:06
failed relationships and you know
01:14:08
there's more
01:14:10
there's more in common because we've got
01:14:11
life in common you know like we can talk
01:14:13
about travel and things we saw and
01:14:15
whereas when you're a kid it's like
01:14:17
come play basketball with me and she's
01:14:19
like you know the girl stuff yeah yeah
01:14:21
and so it should be like come draw and
01:14:23
be like no like I bought it yeah so we
01:14:26
and we were so different that there was
01:14:28
just nothing we could see I'd like I
01:14:29
loved maths and Eco and she loved art
01:14:32
and painting and yeah so I think as a
01:14:36
kid like we were so different whereas
01:14:38
now yeah like there's so much more that
01:14:40
we but she lives in London so I mean
01:14:42
with the time zone like but we have a
01:14:44
really cool relationship like
01:14:46
you know I might only touch base once a
01:14:49
month or every couple months but you
01:14:50
know in a proper way like you know we'll
01:14:52
be in the family chat and kind of Bounce
01:14:54
stuff but it feels the same with mine I
01:14:56
got a sister that lives like three K's
01:14:57
away on point Chev and I can go for a
01:14:59
month without seeing it yeah but you
01:15:01
know that the love is there
01:15:02
um this might be a weird question this
01:15:04
might be me sort of projecting or
01:15:06
imagining myself in your shoes was there
01:15:09
a time there like when when your dad was
01:15:11
prime minister and you were getting all
01:15:12
this hate that you were resentful that
01:15:14
she was out of the country and you were
01:15:15
here taking the brunt of it no no I was
01:15:18
kind of like did it was it then
01:15:20
intentional move on her part by the way
01:15:21
like was she like I don't I want to
01:15:23
bounce
01:15:24
she managed to do like there were some
01:15:27
bits and pieces where media would like
01:15:28
should do some raunchy art or whatever
01:15:30
in Paris you know the paper would pick
01:15:32
that up but generally she was sort of
01:15:33
out of it hey yeah I think yeah I don't
01:15:35
think she wanted to be involved yeah
01:15:37
to be honest I was were you jealous of
01:15:39
that at all like there must be times
01:15:41
where you're like man why didn't I
01:15:43
no because I kind of felt like I was
01:15:47
I almost felt like like
01:15:50
in a weird way I kind of liked when I
01:15:52
copped the heat because I was like oh
01:15:53
this dad's not getting it or like at
01:15:55
least I felt like I was helping them out
01:15:57
it's so unhealthy though yeah such
01:16:00
another healthy way to think that's
01:16:01
terrible yeah like I don't know I kind
01:16:03
of I mean it's good and it's nice that
01:16:06
you're protective and stuff but yeah
01:16:07
like I'm super protective of her yeah
01:16:09
but I mean it's hard because she's an
01:16:11
older sister she moved away when I was
01:16:13
15. you know so
01:16:15
I'm not like a protective older brother
01:16:18
kind of yeah so I should look after
01:16:20
herself yeah but like I would never let
01:16:22
people like speak all of her or you know
01:16:24
anything like I'm really protective of
01:16:26
my family and so that was kind of the
01:16:27
thing like a bit of me was like well I'm
01:16:29
copping the Heap anyway so at least if
01:16:30
I'm getting it like my mom's not and you
01:16:33
know I was kind of like I am like super
01:16:35
protective over them so yeah so you've
01:16:37
developed a real thick skin how's your
01:16:39
mum is she okay she's really good yeah
01:16:40
yeah no she's awesome
01:16:42
she she seems quite like quite private
01:16:44
like you never hear much about it no she
01:16:46
she hates all that stuff yeah yeah so
01:16:49
um which is cool I think Dad and I are
01:16:51
kind of more like show ponies
01:16:55
um cheers we're gonna have to wrap this
01:16:56
up shortly but we haven't even talked
01:16:57
about your business yet so you're a
01:16:58
property developer now yeah so it's
01:17:00
what's it called Stone Stonewood key
01:17:02
Stonewood key what does that mean
01:17:04
um so I had a business called mtk
01:17:05
capital
01:17:08
yeah and so that was kind of just a
01:17:10
family business
01:17:12
well not it was designed to be you know
01:17:14
it was just dad and I and you know I was
01:17:16
kind of running it all and dad was
01:17:18
putting some like seed capital on
01:17:20
and originally when we started it was
01:17:22
like we had no staff no publicity no
01:17:24
website we were just kind of like oh
01:17:26
who's empty you know no one knew who we
01:17:28
were like the media had no idea
01:17:30
and then we got to a point where I
01:17:32
wanted to like scale things up not
01:17:34
out of the media sense but
01:17:37
just wanted to do more stuff
01:17:39
and so
01:17:40
kind of like a few stories during covert
01:17:43
and a few chats and we ended up long
01:17:45
story short was I thought part of me
01:17:48
it'd be a good idea if we got him with a
01:17:50
group homebuilder and I was like yeah we
01:17:52
might lose a bit of margin but I'm a
01:17:54
one-man band like in the company and you
01:17:57
know we can get them to project managing
01:17:58
over to see everything so that led to
01:18:00
discussions with the ciao brothers
01:18:01
because Dad knew them through business
01:18:03
and through politics and
01:18:05
you know so they own Stonewood homes
01:18:07
which they bought out of receivership a
01:18:09
couple years ago the chill brothers were
01:18:11
they the um the strip club guys yeah
01:18:13
right right yeah and so I'm well aware
01:18:15
of their previous work yeah yeah and so
01:18:19
we
01:18:21
um
01:18:23
yeah so originally what happened was we
01:18:25
were like oh that's still development
01:18:26
together and see how it goes and then it
01:18:28
was like oh here's another site let's do
01:18:30
this once you're there and so that
01:18:31
happened we ended up buying like quite a
01:18:32
few sites together and then we're all
01:18:34
kind of sitting around and we went what
01:18:35
if we like got other people's money and
01:18:37
raise money like to do this and so then
01:18:39
we sat there and went well they have
01:18:41
this really good product with Stonewood
01:18:42
and I know what I'm doing with
01:18:43
development and dad and I have this
01:18:45
really good brand and they don't have
01:18:47
the greatest personal brand but
01:18:48
stonewood's a really great brand yeah
01:18:50
why don't they have a person with a good
01:18:51
a good personal brand is it from the
01:18:53
earth from the being the underworld
01:18:54
strip club sort of yeah and I've seen
01:18:56
people like in New Zealand can be a bit
01:18:59
not like racist but I think they go ah
01:19:01
they're Chinese they're probably the
01:19:02
mafia and Triads or yeah you know like
01:19:04
these dodgy strip club guy but they're
01:19:06
actually not they're actually just
01:19:07
really hard-working grassroot
01:19:09
businessmen and that's why I partner
01:19:10
with them you know I wouldn't put my
01:19:12
name on something I didn't you know I
01:19:14
have massive respect for them and you
01:19:16
know they they brought their family out
01:19:17
of massive poverty and you cannot fault
01:19:20
their work ethic like those guys like I
01:19:22
thought I was a hard worker they'd make
01:19:23
me look like an amateur
01:19:25
and so
01:19:28
um yeah so we ended up kind of starting
01:19:30
the brand and so then what happened was
01:19:32
I started
01:19:33
kind of posting my developments and
01:19:35
because I wanted people to know that
01:19:37
you know because it was I got to this
01:19:39
point where I'd like be going out people
01:19:40
like oh do you have a job yet I'd be
01:19:42
like
01:19:42
let you build like 30 homes you know
01:19:45
like I didn't care about that so much
01:19:46
but I was like if I'm gonna start
01:19:47
raising money from the public and that's
01:19:49
kind of to like full circle back to that
01:19:51
post you said
01:19:52
that I talked about at the start with
01:19:55
your reintegration to social media we
01:19:56
said I regret some of the things I did
01:19:58
on social media yeah and that's why I
01:20:00
posted that it was more so me being like
01:20:03
you may or may not have thought whatever
01:20:05
you want to think about me when I was
01:20:06
younger but here's a Line in the Sand
01:20:07
and I was younger I did some things and
01:20:10
yeah I can get into like what you said
01:20:12
all over under that stuff but I didn't
01:20:13
really feel the need to do that I feel
01:20:14
like most people can work that out and
01:20:16
so then it was kind of like that's the
01:20:18
Line in the Sand I'm new me now and
01:20:20
that's why my social media is way more
01:20:22
corporate you know I don't post flashy
01:20:24
things like I don't know although there
01:20:25
was a happy birthday Carousel to your
01:20:27
mum the other day and there was a photo
01:20:29
there and I thought he'd definitely put
01:20:30
that there because his rig looks good
01:20:31
it's you and your mum and dad and you
01:20:34
got you got the ABS out that was that
01:20:36
makes us thirst trapping part of it
01:20:38
though is that it's actually my mum just
01:20:40
hates like photos yeah yeah so I
01:20:42
actually don't have that that many
01:20:44
photos of her well I've got them but
01:20:45
there's a lot where she's like I don't
01:20:46
want you to post that whereas I
01:20:48
literally posted that one earlier sir
01:20:49
yeah I kind of knew I could get away no
01:20:51
that's cool but yeah I mean what I say
01:20:53
it's like no one's business I think the
01:20:54
only thing the only thing that you did
01:20:56
wrong and this is something that was out
01:20:57
of your control completely is you know
01:20:59
growing up in the public eye yeah as a
01:21:01
consequence of your Dad's job which is
01:21:03
um incredibly unfair yeah
01:21:05
um but the business is going good
01:21:06
obviously it's been good the last few
01:21:08
years but now we're at the part of the
01:21:09
like property cycle it's like you would
01:21:11
have you'll know this more than me but
01:21:12
it's like very very predictable the
01:21:14
property cycle so there's a period that
01:21:16
where anyone can make money and they
01:21:18
were at the time now where like people
01:21:19
sort of get exposed
01:21:21
yeah I mean it's like the old saying you
01:21:22
never know who's swimming naked till the
01:21:23
tide goes out I've never heard that but
01:21:26
that's a good one yeah
01:21:28
um
01:21:29
it's weird I mean it depends who you are
01:21:31
I think it's easy to make money in a
01:21:33
down Market than it is in an upmarket
01:21:35
because in an upmarket like it and this
01:21:38
is what really annoys me is for the last
01:21:39
few years everyone's like almost been so
01:21:41
easy to make money but every site I
01:21:43
bought for the last like three years and
01:21:45
I think we bought 20.
01:21:47
every single one I walked out and I was
01:21:50
like oh you paid more than what you
01:21:51
wanted paid way too so you're talking
01:21:53
about buying like a a site that's got
01:21:54
like a small house on and you bulldozed
01:21:56
the house and put like a few yeah they
01:21:58
might build eight or ten or three or
01:22:00
right but every single one night like
01:22:02
every single house I bought I was like
01:22:04
oh God like you feel like you got [ __ ]
01:22:07
over on the sale price I was like why
01:22:08
did I pay that much I would go and be
01:22:10
like pay 1.3 and I'd pay one four
01:22:11
because
01:22:12
you know like you'd buy something for
01:22:15
3.2 and then you'd be like oh God like
01:22:17
every single one and then yeah we're
01:22:19
making like pretty good money the last
01:22:21
few years and everyone was like oh that
01:22:22
must have been so easy but man materials
01:22:25
were going nuts it was covered like I
01:22:27
thought you were overpaying for
01:22:28
everything like and everyone goes oh
01:22:30
it's real easy to see the down Market
01:22:31
coming for the last two years I've been
01:22:33
like tracking it being like I'm not sure
01:22:35
when
01:22:36
and Dad kind of made me
01:22:38
I won't give away all the Trade Secrets
01:22:40
but Dad made me sit there and go I want
01:22:43
you to analyze every down Market that's
01:22:45
ever happened in New Zealand because
01:22:46
he's like there's a trend he's like
01:22:48
you've got to find it so I literally
01:22:49
went through all the data of like
01:22:52
property things property crashes and I
01:22:55
found one
01:22:56
thing that was consistent in every
01:22:58
single one and I pretty much put it in
01:23:01
and I just tracked this one stat and the
01:23:04
moment it hit like a figure I was like
01:23:06
this is when it's going to turn and it
01:23:08
hit last November and from that day I
01:23:10
didn't buy anything I sold everything
01:23:12
like everything that was done I sold
01:23:14
anything that I had was doing pre-sales
01:23:16
on I sold so we got out of everything
01:23:19
pretty much at the top of the market and
01:23:21
then from that day it's only trended
01:23:22
down
01:23:23
but it's it's complicated because at the
01:23:25
same time I have 13 employees you know
01:23:29
building 186 homes I have contractors so
01:23:32
I've still done stuff since then because
01:23:34
you have to turn it over yeah but
01:23:38
it's been different to the last few
01:23:40
years where when you were making money
01:23:42
now we're just doing stuff just to
01:23:44
survive for the next few years and then
01:23:46
pick it back up yeah is this you for the
01:23:49
foreseeable future this is another Max
01:23:50
Key phase
01:23:52
bloody swimming and the softball and the
01:23:56
difference with all those things I think
01:23:57
why I got eventually
01:24:00
unmotivated with those things was I
01:24:02
didn't see the long-term goal with it
01:24:04
same with baseball instead of reach your
01:24:05
Peak you mainly yeah well I'm not gonna
01:24:07
be a pro baseball I don't even want to
01:24:08
be well I did when I was like young
01:24:10
but I was like it's actually a really
01:24:12
tough lifestyle like professional sports
01:24:13
ruthless
01:24:14
like I have so much respect for guys
01:24:16
actually do it it's tough I mean there's
01:24:17
always someone younger better you know
01:24:19
if you go through a slump you might get
01:24:21
[ __ ] that's a hell of a game I mean at
01:24:23
the time of recording this just
01:24:24
yesterday Martin guptill who's been a
01:24:25
black cat for the last 10 years he's
01:24:27
been axed for the summer series oh sure
01:24:29
yeah yeah it's brutal and yeah you have
01:24:31
the coach on TV talking about why he's
01:24:33
replaced you with someone younger yeah
01:24:34
and that's brutal and so
01:24:37
I think with all those things I've just
01:24:38
got to motivated with the sport because
01:24:40
you know maybe I hit my like
01:24:42
physical potential or as I said there
01:24:45
was only so much I could train or you
01:24:47
know for all those things whereas with
01:24:48
this it's a bit different because
01:24:51
I want to be on property for the next 40
01:24:53
years I'm not saying I'm going to build
01:24:55
three bedroom townhouses for the next 40
01:24:57
years you know maybe I'll get into
01:24:58
commercial property or maybe I'll do big
01:25:01
Lan subdivisions I have no idea what two
01:25:05
years ago I was doing Villa Renovations
01:25:06
and I was like I'd never build a new
01:25:08
build and now I'm doing 186 you know so
01:25:10
I I think it will keep Reinventing
01:25:13
itself but I love the industry and you
01:25:16
know I'm loving my company and
01:25:18
yeah definitely it's definitely
01:25:19
something I'll be in for a very long
01:25:22
time but how that looks in 10 years God
01:25:24
I have no idea
01:25:25
who yeah who knows who knows who knows
01:25:28
do you think the property prices will
01:25:30
keep sort of doubling for the next 10
01:25:31
years so if you're looking uh like past
01:25:34
history like the last 40 years or
01:25:35
whatever they tend to sort of double in
01:25:37
price more or less every 10 years yeah I
01:25:39
think they I feel like we can flip over
01:25:41
one more time maybe two more times but
01:25:42
then what do you think
01:25:44
so I think that's an interesting
01:25:46
question that's kind of like the money
01:25:47
question so for it to double every 10
01:25:49
years it's roughly like eight percent
01:25:51
yeah
01:25:52
so if you think about it every year by
01:25:56
that metric you're getting like eight
01:25:57
percent rise in price
01:25:59
so in say the last two years you've seen
01:26:01
30 or 50 or you know different areas of
01:26:05
you know had different different prices
01:26:07
but
01:26:08
my prediction on it you know and this is
01:26:10
just my opinion
01:26:12
I see in the next couple years I don't
01:26:15
necessarily see this big crash
01:26:16
everyone's talking about but prices
01:26:17
might not move for two years which with
01:26:20
interest rates and inflation you are
01:26:22
your real value is going down
01:26:23
technically like in a real money sense
01:26:25
you're losing money but in terms of
01:26:28
actual house price I don't see you own a
01:26:30
1.7 million dollar house it's going to
01:26:32
be worth 1.2 because this is a big thing
01:26:36
obviously that's ignoring that you can't
01:26:40
pay your interest and you get like
01:26:41
mortgages selled and you have to sell
01:26:43
because you have no money that because
01:26:45
at that point at the Mark the moment the
01:26:47
Market's a liquid so yeah there will be
01:26:49
people that will crater their house
01:26:51
prices but that's not because the market
01:26:53
stuff that's because personal
01:26:54
circumstance yeah my view on it is if
01:26:57
you said to me right now say like this
01:26:59
apartment building room right now if you
01:27:01
said how much would it cost you to
01:27:02
rebuild this
01:27:04
well there's no way I could rebuild this
01:27:05
right now for what the guy built it for
01:27:07
so why would he sell it any lower than
01:27:10
the replacement value because from a
01:27:13
building perspective you can't replace
01:27:14
it and so there's a point where okay
01:27:17
prices might not go up and they should
01:27:18
go down but what will happen eventually
01:27:21
is people will go well I don't want to
01:27:23
buy this because I don't want to build a
01:27:24
new house because it's going to cost me
01:27:26
like so much just too much and so what
01:27:29
happens yeah and so then the suppliers
01:27:31
like myself we stopped building for a
01:27:33
bit but then all that means is there's
01:27:35
no Supply but there's the demand will
01:27:37
keep going so then that brings prices
01:27:38
back up so I just don't see how I don't
01:27:41
see how prices could ever go down the
01:27:43
only way I see prices actually ever
01:27:44
moving is if material prices go down but
01:27:47
they're only ever going to keep going up
01:27:48
there's no way that Timber halves in the
01:27:50
next five years no and of course even
01:27:52
with yeah just in inflation inflation
01:27:55
yeah it will just keep going and so in
01:27:58
my view all that will happen is Supply
01:28:00
will fluctuate depending on the demand
01:28:03
and at the moment you got this message
01:28:05
this equilibrium where the vendor's
01:28:07
expectation you know are completely
01:28:08
different to what they'll probably
01:28:09
actually sell it for and that's why
01:28:11
nothing's moving but eventually then
01:28:13
what happens is you know you've seen
01:28:14
William Scorpio from 800 to 500 homes
01:28:16
you know we're reducing how many we're
01:28:18
doing everyone's no one's going to be
01:28:21
going oh let's buy 50 sites right now so
01:28:23
Supply in 18 months will massively
01:28:25
reduce and then what will happen is say
01:28:27
that the market starts picking up
01:28:28
interest rates have kind of at least
01:28:30
somewhat
01:28:31
got more stable well from there it's
01:28:34
like
01:28:36
you know at that point
01:28:38
the market will you know demand slowly
01:28:40
starts creeping up and then if there's
01:28:41
no Supply that brings price back up and
01:28:44
that's what I see happening I just think
01:28:45
for the next couple years it might just
01:28:47
be a bit more quiet yeah absolutely and
01:28:49
um your price is going up now no one
01:28:51
actually loses or makes money until you
01:28:52
sell do you well that was my point is if
01:28:54
you get like a hospital pass and you
01:28:56
have to sell like say you get divorced
01:28:57
and yeah lose your job lose your job or
01:29:00
you can't you know you over leverage
01:29:02
yourself that's the whole swimming naked
01:29:03
thing and so that's where at the moment
01:29:06
you're seeing these people they got
01:29:07
caught short you know say they're boring
01:29:09
well think about you had a million
01:29:11
dollar mortgage at say two percent and
01:29:13
you're you know that might have cost you
01:29:14
20 grand a year
01:29:15
well if you have a household income of a
01:29:17
hundred you know it's pretty easy well
01:29:19
that Mortgage in six months might be 80
01:29:21
grand a year yeah yeah those people go
01:29:24
effects day yeah well how are they going
01:29:25
to pay that and so then what happens is
01:29:27
they go I have to sell and this is the
01:29:29
thing with property and this is what I
01:29:31
always get into arguments with people
01:29:32
about they always go is my house going
01:29:34
to be worthless I don't think the value
01:29:36
of your house ever changes in my eyes
01:29:38
what I think changes is all that matters
01:29:41
at the end of this what will someone pay
01:29:42
for it on the day and the Market's never
01:29:44
wrong if you listed this house or this
01:29:46
apartment right now today whatever
01:29:47
someone pays for it that's the market
01:29:49
because on that day that's what people
01:29:51
are actually willing to pay for it and
01:29:53
so in my eyes oh you sound like a real
01:29:55
estate agent that's so annoying well
01:29:56
that's what the market tells us it's
01:29:57
worth yeah but it's true though like you
01:29:59
can do all these spreadsheet exercise I
01:30:01
mean I think it's worth 1.4 but at the
01:30:03
end of the day it's what will people on
01:30:04
the day pay for it and so right now
01:30:07
you've got so much Supply on the market
01:30:09
there's hundreds of homes everywhere and
01:30:11
there's not that many buyers so they
01:30:13
have ample choice
01:30:14
so if like if I had a hundred iPhones
01:30:17
and I came to you and I went
01:30:18
I'll sell you this phone for a hundred
01:30:21
bucks and I've got a hundred of them
01:30:22
well you're going to be in a rush to buy
01:30:24
it no whereas if I go I'll give it to
01:30:26
you for 80 bucks you might go oh think
01:30:28
about it that seems kind of good whereas
01:30:30
if I come to you and I go this is the
01:30:31
last iphone in the country it's worth
01:30:33
100 bucks but I have 50 people outside
01:30:36
right now waiting to buy it and if you
01:30:38
don't buy I'll sell it's one of them 110
01:30:40
well you'll you'll buy it yeah for sure
01:30:42
and that's literally what's happened in
01:30:44
the property market last year there was
01:30:45
no Supply you know I listed the house in
01:30:47
Mount Albert there were three homes in
01:30:48
Mount Albert for sale at the time there
01:30:50
were hundreds and hundreds of buyers you
01:30:52
had low interest rates cheap money
01:30:53
everyone wanting to buy like a tangible
01:30:55
asset prices went through the roof and
01:30:58
now you just have crazy amounts of
01:31:00
Supply because everyone's going holy
01:31:01
[ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage I want
01:31:03
to get out and so they're trying to sell
01:31:06
and then now supply has gone through the
01:31:07
roof and then buyers sit there and go
01:31:09
well
01:31:09
I don't need to buy something that's
01:31:11
well priced I just I'll you know I'll
01:31:14
get a deal
01:31:15
and then eventually what happens is the
01:31:16
people start bleeding and they go holy
01:31:18
[ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage
01:31:20
maybe I just have to get out and then
01:31:22
the banks call and go well you ask 800
01:31:24
Grand so if you sell it for 801 you're
01:31:28
you're taking that and that's the whole
01:31:30
thing where that's we real estate agents
01:31:32
get annoying but it's true it's that's
01:31:33
the market yeah and if you went right
01:31:35
now I have to sell this apartment
01:31:36
tomorrow
01:31:38
well at that point the price is probably
01:31:40
much much it's like you own a car
01:31:42
yeah it becomes like a fire sale
01:31:44
situation doesn't it well it's all well
01:31:45
and good that it might be worth 100
01:31:46
Grand but that doesn't mean someone's
01:31:47
going to pay that yeah you know and then
01:31:49
if it's like it's it's all about
01:31:51
liquidity if you need that money soon
01:31:53
well you have to get someone to hit the
01:31:55
bit and to do that you have to lower
01:31:57
your price and so that's why I think
01:31:59
it's complicated I don't think house
01:32:00
prices decrease I just think the real
01:32:02
value of what people are willing to pay
01:32:04
decreases yeah but Adventures I said
01:32:06
then Supply will stop and then it flips
01:32:08
and then it goes back up I can tell
01:32:10
you're passionate about it yeah you're
01:32:12
into it hey yeah you love it yeah um
01:32:14
we're gonna oh I haven't even asked you
01:32:16
what's your relationship like with
01:32:17
running are you do you run at all has
01:32:20
running ever been part of your life I'm
01:32:21
a terrible Runner if I'm being honest
01:32:22
you've never done it for Fitness you
01:32:24
don't enjoy it I get really like I don't
01:32:27
know what it is I know whether it's like
01:32:28
you're really tight shins when I run and
01:32:30
so I've just you know how some people
01:32:33
like I'm sure like you like glide on
01:32:35
their feet and it looks all Majestic I
01:32:37
am like I'm like heavy ass like it's
01:32:41
just not something I'm I don't I was
01:32:43
always a good swimmer but yeah running's
01:32:45
never been
01:32:46
like I like sprinting and explosive
01:32:48
stuff but the shorter the better well
01:32:50
I'd always I'd always go through this
01:32:52
phases around but I'm gonna be a runner
01:32:53
like I'm gonna get into it and man my
01:32:55
like I just would get this pain in my
01:32:57
shins
01:32:58
I don't know what I
01:33:00
I think I have I would sing say just run
01:33:02
through it he would and I I did that
01:33:05
I couldn't like walk so I don't know I
01:33:09
think
01:33:09
I think I have something where my knees
01:33:12
hyperextend backwards or something and
01:33:14
that does something to like
01:33:15
my ankle and then that cause I don't
01:33:18
know what it but I think I could
01:33:19
probably get shoes that
01:33:21
because I had a friend that had
01:33:22
something similar and he got some like
01:33:23
implant in a shoe and it like fully
01:33:25
fixed it right well I'm glad I left the
01:33:27
ranch head to the end it was a bit of a
01:33:29
dead end not a lot there and um our last
01:33:31
one has um how's your your
01:33:33
um love life are you in a good place at
01:33:35
the moment are you seeing anyone nah
01:33:37
very single yeah yeah and happy to be
01:33:39
single
01:33:39
yeah I mean do you thought you'd find it
01:33:41
hard to meet genuine people or is that
01:33:43
something that plays on the back of your
01:33:44
mind I used to sort them out fairly
01:33:45
quickly yeah I I used to find that I
01:33:47
think now I roll in circles where like
01:33:49
you know I meet the right people and you
01:33:52
know I'm not actually too worried about
01:33:54
that
01:33:55
um
01:33:55
have you got like um because you seem
01:33:58
like a bit of a goal set on a planner
01:33:59
like if you've got a figure in the back
01:34:00
of your mind like you by the time you're
01:34:02
30 you want to be with
01:34:03
because your parents are quite Young
01:34:04
when they got together yeah they met
01:34:06
when they were 15 and 17. right well
01:34:08
yeah that's a great relationship too
01:34:10
like yeah a lot a lot of people that
01:34:11
meet that young they just end up growing
01:34:13
apart well that that's what I think my
01:34:15
sister and I find hard was we always had
01:34:17
this preconceived idea that you know you
01:34:19
need to be with someone for 20 years and
01:34:21
50 years and you find the one well
01:34:24
ideally that I think that's what
01:34:25
everyone sort of wants don't they yeah
01:34:27
so I mean I don't know I
01:34:30
half of me loves being single and half
01:34:32
of me kind of because you're a party boy
01:34:35
yeah I love that you're that party boy
01:34:37
all up in there yeah I part of it's like
01:34:40
I don't really have time like I found
01:34:41
I've been dating some people this year
01:34:42
and
01:34:43
like I probably
01:34:45
you know I wasn't giving them enough
01:34:47
time and you know my mind would be on
01:34:49
business and you know the Jujitsu or
01:34:52
I feel like when I was younger I really
01:34:54
tried to make relationships work
01:34:56
I would like I've always felt like it's
01:34:58
the one area of my life I haven't
01:35:00
succeeded you know like I've always done
01:35:02
my own business I've always done my
01:35:03
academically in sport but I've had
01:35:06
shocking relationships yeah well I feel
01:35:08
like everything and everyone sort of
01:35:10
comes into your into your life at the
01:35:11
right time for the right reason yeah so
01:35:13
maybe you'll meet a person when you
01:35:14
least expected who's just equally as
01:35:16
driven that also doesn't have that much
01:35:18
time for a partner yeah well that's
01:35:20
where it's been hard as I've dated
01:35:21
people that are very goal driven and
01:35:24
similar and
01:35:25
you know sometimes that clashes and then
01:35:27
I've dated people that are really chill
01:35:30
and the complete opposite of me and then
01:35:32
you know that kind of I don't know like
01:35:35
yeah it's weird but I'm not when I was
01:35:38
younger I used to hate being single
01:35:39
whereas now
01:35:41
like I don't even go out or I'm not on
01:35:43
dating apps or anything
01:35:45
but I'm kind of just like loving my life
01:35:47
yeah did you find that was that a
01:35:49
blessing or a curse to go on like dating
01:35:51
apps well half the time people would
01:35:52
just think I was like a fake product oh
01:35:54
okay yeah but I mean like I had success
01:35:57
on the like like I guess having the
01:35:59
public profile helps but yeah there must
01:36:01
have been a time they were your DMs were
01:36:02
crazy yeah
01:36:05
but now like I just don't really elicit
01:36:08
that kind of attention from people now
01:36:10
so
01:36:11
I don't really notice it and I feel like
01:36:13
social media has changed a lot I don't
01:36:14
know about your engagement but mine's
01:36:15
like gone down a lot and oh on Instagram
01:36:17
yeah definitely yeah I've been sitting
01:36:19
on the same same number for maybe six
01:36:21
months yeah no um I think like two three
01:36:23
years I've kind of been
01:36:25
you know and even like I find like my
01:36:27
engagement on like people don't reply to
01:36:28
as much stuff or I just think the
01:36:30
algorithms change yeah sure
01:36:32
um
01:36:33
but yes I think I don't know I'm just at
01:36:36
a point now where I'm really like I do
01:36:37
what I want and if someone wants to fit
01:36:39
into there that's cool like but it's not
01:36:41
you're not tight with what I post I
01:36:43
don't sit there and go oh like I wonder
01:36:45
if a chick thinks this is cool like I'm
01:36:48
like I'm interested in this yeah follow
01:36:50
me like I'm gonna post it I believe that
01:36:53
about you and I believe you're at a
01:36:55
point now in your life where you
01:36:55
genuinely don't don't care too much
01:36:57
about what other people think no um
01:36:59
because yeah I mean that tall poppy
01:37:01
thing we talked before I feel like with
01:37:03
you you're in a loser situation like you
01:37:04
set up your own business and people that
01:37:06
hate you're going to be like oh yeah
01:37:07
well you're easy to do that when you
01:37:09
yeah and then if the business fails
01:37:11
everyone's like oh he'll be fine he's
01:37:13
got his dad yeah you know so it's like
01:37:15
you're damned if you do damned if you
01:37:16
don't well that's why you you're
01:37:18
genuinely not bothered by that now oh
01:37:20
not that stuff I mean if I failed a
01:37:22
business I'd be more gutted that my
01:37:23
business failed than that son you know
01:37:26
like the embarrassment Factor yeah I
01:37:27
don't care about that and what we got it
01:37:28
I probably lost money at that point yeah
01:37:30
you know
01:37:31
but now I just think you got to do
01:37:34
whatever you want in life you know like
01:37:37
I know some guy wants to sit at home and
01:37:39
mock what I do or I'm living my life and
01:37:41
he's watching mine so
01:37:43
I'd rather to me failure is not
01:37:45
something I would like care about
01:37:47
I think I think failure is something
01:37:49
that um I think the whole world would be
01:37:52
a better place if people were less
01:37:53
afraid of it and more into embracing it
01:37:55
I'm sorry you learned the most yeah I'm
01:37:57
so grateful for all my biggest failures
01:37:58
yeah I know that's like super cliche but
01:38:01
I mean like driving to that Jiu Jitsu
01:38:03
room for the very first time like you
01:38:05
you knew you were you were heading
01:38:07
towards a fail I felt like such an idiot
01:38:08
yeah and I was sitting there I'd never
01:38:10
watched Jiu Jitsu like it's not a great
01:38:11
spectator sport because you know it's
01:38:13
very technical and if you don't like I
01:38:15
love it now but it's still not great
01:38:17
like if you ask my parents oh watch
01:38:19
they'll be like no idea just rolling
01:38:22
around with this blue bathroom
01:38:26
there's a saying I really like I saw
01:38:28
this on Instagram it's called the 1840
01:38:30
60 Rule and it's 18. everyone worries
01:38:32
about what everyone else thinks about
01:38:33
them at 40 people stop worrying about
01:38:36
what people think about them and just do
01:38:38
what they want then at 60 you realize no
01:38:40
one was thinking about you at all your
01:38:41
room was just busy thinking about what
01:38:43
everyone else was thinking about them
01:38:44
well that's actually what I realized I
01:38:46
think when I was traveling was
01:38:48
I got to this point where the first like
01:38:50
month I was like to all my friends at
01:38:52
every download oh my God I'm here oh my
01:38:54
God like and I was like chatting my
01:38:56
parents and like because it was so
01:38:57
exciting and then it got to a point
01:38:59
where like my parents stopped replying
01:39:00
to me you know like they might reply
01:39:01
like a day later or like kind of ignore
01:39:03
what I'd said yeah and I kind of got to
01:39:06
this point I was sitting I was like
01:39:07
holy [ __ ] like my own parents don't
01:39:10
really that bored of your travels yeah
01:39:12
and I'm like so why would some guy I've
01:39:14
never met him possibly give a [ __ ] and
01:39:16
that's literally what got me to the
01:39:18
point I was like why like I'm like why
01:39:20
do I care about social media
01:39:22
because back then I was just doing it
01:39:23
not for like attention but it was kind
01:39:25
of just for validation whereas now with
01:39:27
social media like people go oh he's back
01:39:29
on it blah blah blah blah but it like
01:39:31
directly impacts my sales you know if I
01:39:34
can get brand exposure now I make money
01:39:36
my business does a bit of like there is
01:39:38
like a a very direct link and my whole
01:39:42
plan all along was always to build a
01:39:44
brand and build like a profile and then
01:39:46
I had options
01:39:47
you know for the rest of my life I can
01:39:49
do exactly what I've done now and Dad
01:39:51
actually it was really funny because I'm
01:39:53
running kind of social media and sales
01:39:55
and marketing for our company obviously
01:39:57
still involved and all the other stuff
01:39:58
but that's kind of where I that's the
01:40:00
team I look after and Dad she sat me
01:40:02
down the other day because he always
01:40:03
used to have got me for social media
01:40:05
like he'd always be like why are you
01:40:06
doing this you're so obsessed with this
01:40:07
or
01:40:08
but I was again obsessed with like the
01:40:10
analytics of it or not they're like oh
01:40:12
my God I got a light to me a like was
01:40:14
business and yeah and he was like isn't
01:40:17
this funny he's like I used to give you
01:40:18
so much [ __ ] about this it makes you so
01:40:20
mad at you and he's like now you're like
01:40:22
such a wizard like you just understand
01:40:23
it all like you kind of know how to get
01:40:26
people hyped and yeah he was probably
01:40:28
mad at you though like a particular
01:40:30
parent sort of thing because he knew
01:40:31
about the negative consequences yeah
01:40:32
totally and he was he didn't see the
01:40:34
value in it whereas now I always sat
01:40:36
there and went this is going to be the
01:40:37
tool we use but even in saying that I
01:40:39
feel like social media is dying you know
01:40:41
I feel like stuff like this is like
01:40:42
blowing up you know like podcasts and
01:40:45
yeah that long form conversation yeah
01:40:47
and by the way thanks for coming on
01:40:48
today because I've um I I have have you
01:40:51
have you been on a podcast before is
01:40:53
this your first one
01:40:54
I don't think so I did
01:40:56
I remember I did a thing with Aziz Aziz
01:40:59
on like mental health right and that was
01:41:02
like quite a long I've done like
01:41:04
interviews I guess yeah
01:41:06
um like I did one with Samantha Hayes
01:41:09
which was quite like a long form
01:41:10
conversation you know it was like an
01:41:12
hour or so but no I've never I don't
01:41:13
think I've ever done like a podcast
01:41:14
podcast yeah well I appreciate you being
01:41:16
here today I appreciate you being so
01:41:18
open and I can honestly say hand on
01:41:20
heart like all the times I've met you
01:41:21
over the years from the age of what 14
01:41:23
13 yeah to now like you've never been um
01:41:26
anything but you know kind and nice and
01:41:28
just a good person so thank you for that
01:41:30
yeah cheers it was cool I appreciate it
01:41:32
thanks Max Key
01:41:33
[Music]
01:41:49
thank you
