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hey Runners only with dime Harley Runners only with dom Harvey and Max Key g'day mate how's it going going great by
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the way um thank you very much um you're dressed almost as the same colors as my
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neon sign yeah thank you I got the memo on that one so I appreciate it how are you how are you today I'm good very good
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yeah yep working hard cool uh how old are you now what are you 27 27. yeah because I was thinking about you how old
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were you when you when your dad became prime minister when we first saw you on stage with you know the the big wide
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eyes in front of the cameras for the first time looking really startled how old were you then
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um I was year nine so I think I was 14 30 or 14. right do you have much memory of that what do you what do you remember
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about that first of all what do you remember about the like the lead up before that so you know your dad's
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successful in business you find out he's running for prime minister what does
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that mean to you as a 12 13 year old um I just say anything I kind of when you're 12 you don't really
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understand the gravity of anything and you know he'd always talked about being
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prime minister and it was always something he'd like really wanted to do and ever since I can remember so we
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moved back to New Zealand when I was year three and he became the um National Party oh he became a member of the
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national party then for helensville so pretty much since I can remember he was always in Parliament so
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for me I guess I just grew up with it so it didn't feel that weird or that big
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and yeah suppose what I mean is like you can't sort of understand what it means
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exactly like oh I had no chance to be prime minister no and it was it literally wasn't until I have a very
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clear memory of I was like 20 I think and we went it was my final trip that I did with Dad as prime minister and we
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went to um China on an official trip and I'd gone there like four or five times
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before and it was the first time we were sitting in the Great Hall of the people
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I'm pretty sure with the Chinese Prime Minister and I remember sitting there and you
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know we're with some like very established people in the Chinese government and you know all of Dad's
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team it was the first time I sat there and I was like wow I've literally been
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learning about this guy in economics at Uni and I was sitting there going like it was
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the first time ever I was like whoa like because you know when you're 12 to 20
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you just grow up with it you know it all felt in a weird way quite normal like I
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guess when we got rid of the security um you know that felt weird for me well that's right because you had cops living
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on a camper van on your driveway yeah for 24 7 for like 10 years of my life so for me when they left it was weird
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because for me like I grew up with always I think for my parents and my sister they're a bit older so I think
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all of that felt quite weird to them whereas for me I just got so accustomed to it like none of it felt weird it just
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kind of felt like that that was just how it always was amazing what's it you look
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back now and what sort of like awesome perks were there like did you like did you meet the queen I've saw some photos
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of you with the All Blacks and things like that yeah I mean the really cool things like uh during the World Cup
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Final in 2011 we got to go to the changing room like after they won and that was epic you know it was like a 15
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year old that was like the coolest thing ever I suppose you could just say to your dad like oh I want to meet that you
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know someone's in town say I don't know Ash is in town you say Dad can we meet
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our show and you can probably make it happen you probably could I mean I just I feel like none of us either like
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abused the privilege right like you know they're always stories going around that
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people would be like oh Max Key said do you know who I am but I just never did that like I I feel like my whole family
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felt quite not embarrassed by it but almost anything that could have been a perk we tried to like statically I
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suppose you have to don't you because yeah well they're just focusing is
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almost abusing the power in a way sort of yeah and I just think that there'd be
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things that like I would find really embarrassing like say he picked me up from school and you know the police
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would be outside and pull up right up front and I'd be like oh God whereas some people go oh you're so lucky you
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get this whereas in my head at the time I didn't see a lot of the perks as perks
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and to me of course not yeah like you just want to be normal I guess and fit in I guess yeah and I think the hard
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thing was everyone would see stuff like the World Cup or when we met the queen but to me I only got to see my dad every
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three weeks and you know he constantly got beat up in the media and at the end of the day like people might disagree
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with what he did in his policies and you know it's politics you know you're going
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to have polarizing you know opinions on you oh of course yeah but for me like it's hard seeing when people feel like
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that and so I would have traded any of the perks to not have to go through all that stuff yeah man there's there's so
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much of that that I want to get into um especially the fake news stuff involving you like people's New Mexico
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do you know who I am I want to get into all of that but first of all I want to go I want to go I want to go right back
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so we were you born in New Zealand or the UK no I was born in Singapore Singapore really random yeah is that
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where your dad was working at the time yep he'd been there for like eight months and then I got born and then we
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were there for probably a year and a little bit right and then we moved to London and I was
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there for five years and then we came back to Sydney for a year and then to New Zealand
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so I mean you don't know you don't know any anything different so I don't know
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this is probably a dumb question that you can't even answer but what was it like being like brought up in like a
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rich family no no not rich rich I think when your dad became prime minister who the paper city was worth like 50 million
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and so Elon Musk wouldn't even bend over to pick that up that's right but it's a
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it's a lot of money yeah like like good upbringing nice upbringing well when did
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you realize you were from a like a wealthy family I know this Probably sounds really bad
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but not until I was probably like 20. oh okay dad you know both were raised in state homes and they had really tough
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upbringings and so I obviously lived in a nice house and went on nice holidays but mum and dad never like handed me
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cash like you know I worked at McDonald's for four years like when Dad was prime minister you know I was always
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hustling to like try and make my own money and I think I was very much like wanting to do my own thing in the world
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and you know Mum and Dad yeah they always looked after me and provided me and gave me a good education and you
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know I'm not going to sit here and act like I was anyway struggling you know
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and that's since the word but mum and dad weren't the kinds of parents where
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they just flicked us cash and if I went oh Mom I want a PS5 that you know I never had a good to wait till Christmas
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even then you know like they just weren't the kinds of parents that just handed us everything and I'm really at
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the time you know it because I did go to you know like kings in a nice school and
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there were lots of kids that got treated like that oh gotcha okay that makes sense so
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because I was thinking from from my perspective so I was um I was um growing up in Palmer's North in the 80s and it's
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like I'd go to a friend's place and I'd look I could tell the friend was richer
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than me because they had like appliances that I didn't have like a VHS or a microwave or whatever or nicer after
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school snacks yeah but do you ever do that you went to your friend's place and
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you're like oh they don't have as nice a fridge as us but see now but see the
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thing you got to remember is that whole period where you're like cognitive enough to notice that Dad was
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prime minister and sir he didn't even have a car and we did nothing flashy because his whole tenure as prime
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minister there was this whole criticism that he was really rich and he didn't
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understand other people so during that period they never spent money like we never did anything lavish you know
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obviously the house was really nice but they bought that in 2004 yeah I remember
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your dad like before he became prime minister um saying he was donating all his prime
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ministerial sellers yeah it's do you feel like the tides changing because I know exactly what you're saying and it
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was like um I feel like there's two two camps of people there's a smaller Camp
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of people that are like [ __ ] this guy's done well for himself he'll be a good
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prime minister yeah then there's a whole lot of other people like oh God he's
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done well for himself [ __ ] him yeah I feel like it's swinging a bit though
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don't you more towards the positivity side of things than the tall poppy or not so much I mean I think tool poppy
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syndrome in New Zealand is really bad um and it's a shame I do think at the moment with how the economy is going I
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think this people that are starting to sit there and go you know we navigated the global
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recession last time and came out you know we're probably one of the strongest
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countries you know in the world economically after that so I think there are people now that are
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starting to be grateful um I just think there's a lot of politicians that go in that you know
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they've never actually worked and I just don't think they actually understand like how the economy works or
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you know I'm obviously young so you know I'm not sitting here saying I know you
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know everything myself but I just think yeah a lot of politicians I think a lot of them aren't actually
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they're for the right reasons and a lot of them are just career politicians yeah
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you know I think that's where I really respected dad was you know he went and
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did it and he walked the talk and you know you talked to him he's a genius with markets and he understands all that
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stuff and you know I think he was the best person for the job at that time so I think there are people now that start
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you know they're starting to realize that and you know as I said politics is so
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polarizing you know say you had a million dollars and you put it into curing cancer there's going to be
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someone whose mum died of you know some other disease or had a brain tumor and then they're going to go well why aren't
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you funding that or you know everything you do it's it's yourself up discretionary of course yeah well it's
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not Zero Sum like if you do one thing to help one person it's at the cost of yeah
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the opportunity cost of not helping someone else and so you know if you raise tax you piss business owners often
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you anger some people and but you help you know so you constantly it's I think
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it's a one industry where it's very very difficult to make people like you oh
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impossible even look at the situation now with um Jacinda ardern like she went from being the most loved and respected
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prime minister and now now that things are getting a little bit tight for people and mortgage rates are going up
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and the cost of living crisis um you know the the um the Halo is getting a little bit tarnished like
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everyone turns on you eventually in politics don't they well I think and that's why I think Dad timed leaving at
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a really good time you know he left when he was super popular and I think as you
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said you know that tide is Shifting where people really respect him I think they
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realized he wasn't in it for the ego and he wasn't there just to be loved forever
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and he didn't overstep his kind of Mark I think to me he's always said to me like a good
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Trader knows you know when to hit the bid and at the same time to me that's always just resonated like there's
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always a right time to make the decision you've got to move fast and you've got
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to do what you think's right yeah and for him I think he felt like he had got
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us through the recession and you know that was what he was really interested in and yeah everyone talked about it
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being a rock star economy here in New York yeah it was the phrase that was used yeah so um yeah
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I I loved your dad as prime minister from a uh the perspective of a commercial radio broadcaster like he'd
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come in for a chat he'd be up for anything and that was something that he did get quite a bit of you know
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criticism for I guess in his time like people would call him a goofball or whatever yeah did you did you ever like
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tell your dad off like oh all the time yeah but like all the time and that's what
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I'm meaning like imagine you're 15 and like Dad's doing all and everyone's like
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oh you must have thought it was so cool I was sitting like this is so embarrassing like you know I'm just
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trying to fit in at high school and I had dad doing like I don't know the Christmas thing with you guys oh
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yeah that was a shocking it's like a Christmas song I mean um there was one thing which I I was a little bit unfair
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uh the like the ponytail thing yeah um yeah they've had a little mean Spirit
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anyway but if like I said the flip side of that um what was what was he like with you I
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I'm guessing like you said lost your dad for like a a really crucial and important decade of your life yeah well
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I mean I'm sure he would have been there as much as what he could but yeah I
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think that's where I have like conflicting views on it you know there was a phase a few years ago where
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I don't know if resentment's the right word but you know I did feel kind of
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angry at him because you know my sister moved away and you know it was just me because while he was prime minister or
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yeah yeah you know and so for me it was like I did find it really hard and I think what I found really tough was it
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was I found it hard talking about my mental health because you know it's like
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first question on here you're saying oh what's it like being a rich kid and what
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was it like this and that's the scrutiny I'm constantly under so then when I sit
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there and go oh I had a tough upbringing our culture's so like oh but you lived
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in a big house and you got toys but to me it's like that doesn't make you happier if
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anything I think finding happiness is harder because you have a lot of the things that most people spend their life
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just trying to achieve but when you've got that all you actually have to find
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purpose and but it's hard to sit there and complain about that because people
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go why I'm sleeping in my car and you're like well you're true yeah so it's I found it really complicated to
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ever talk about it because say I sit there and go I had a hard upbringing because I I think I did have a hard
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upbringing not in a I feel sorry for myself but it was a very complicated upbringing I mean everything I did was
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in the media I was constantly scrutinized by people you know if I put everyone was trying to
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see my downfall and I was a young kid young boy and I made mistakes and everything I did got massively publicly
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kind of oh and a magnified in a big way and um I mean the only argument I think that people could put up as well if you
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don't like it don't put yourself out there but it's like here you are you're
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a teenage boy you've got an Instagram account big [ __ ] deal so does everyone else the same age and that was
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kind of because everyone turned and said well you elicit the attention but actually what happened was they were
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writing all that stuff before I even had an Instagram or before I did anything and I got to a point where it was all
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happening anyway so I got to a point going I didn't choose this like I'm just
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in this so then I was like why may as well just do what I want to do and I got to a point where it was not like
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rebellious but I was kind of like [ __ ] you I'll do what I want like and so I
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just started doing everything I enjoyed and then you know I was like I want to be a DJ so I went and you know did that
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and everyone sat there and went you're eliciting the attention but it was kind of one of those things where
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it was happening anyway so I got to the point where I was like you kind of damned if you do damned if you did yeah
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so I was like why don't I use it to my advantage yeah sure you know and so I don't know
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I really want to get into this because it's it's like it is really unfair and
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I've got firm opinions about that like um I think politicians get get it they
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um it's a brutal business brutal um like Helen Clark before your dad like there
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was constant speculation about her and her husband and about him being a beard and being a fake relationship or
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whatever um when when your dad left there was there was some rumors rumors going about
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him having an affair with one of his politicians and your mum basically said the job on me now I think it's even
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worse for Clark gave it it's like oh yeah there's the thing about the nanny
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and people were on WhatsApp to me saying it's true here's a picture of her and
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I'm like yeah as much as we're all like this to be true because it's so
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salacious it's probably not and then the home detention thing it's just oh yeah
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that's Relentless but I think um I I do think that's unfair because they're just
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public servants but when it when it starts impacting the kids as well I think that's a Next Level sort of
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situation yeah what was interesting about kind of Dad's time as prime minister was we were the first
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family almost in the world where social media was a thing so social media came in when I was
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year 13 so 2012. and that was kind of dad gotten in 2010. oh no sorry 2008. and so we were kind of that first
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generation where there was a prime minister with kids my age where social media existed because with
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Helen Clark you know social media and exertion of kids the last New Zealand family that had kids was Jenny Shipley
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right yeah and that was way before Myspace in bibo yeah way before then so so yeah the only International
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comparison I can think of off the top of my head is probably like Obama that was
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literally the only at the time like in kind of the western society that was the only family with a kid because think
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about most people like Joe Biden obviously yes all of them I think that yeah so it was quite an
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unusual thing where because say with Obama there's way way way way more risk for his family you know
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there's a genuine risk that someone comes and tries to assassinate them so his kids were way under lock
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whereas dad was kind of like I don't want to rob you of your childhood but at
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the same time I know how much pressure you're under and I was just really like I'm doing
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this and it just got to a point where they were like okay well do it then and it almost created this Beast that
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I hadn't I at the time I never knew it was gonna become what it became you know I kind of just wanted an
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Instagram and then all of a sudden there were articles and but the other thing you do becomes a
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news story by the way depressing for those journalists imagine doing three years of Journalism school to then just
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update Max Keys feed and write a story about it there was some funny fact though when Dad was
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um I think it was in 2017 it was the year after Dad sat down that was probably where my like profile was the
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highest and there were more articles on me than the labor housing policy there was like
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135 articles on me and there was like 95 on labors like housing and when you sit there and think like I
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was like a first year uni student oh no I was like a third year uni student and there was just nonsense and I don't know
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it's just crazy like the clickbait yeah like what people so yeah so it helped
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how I I mean I follow you on social media now and you you seem to have a fantastic relationship with your parents
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yeah um you play golf with your dad a lot you're out for dinner with your parents a lot you even do some business
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stuff with your dad um how how I mean I'm sure he would have always been as prison as what he could
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have been over those years but what did that look like like you see him once a week phone call
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every couple of weeks text every day jimin now or then when he was prime minister oh but he he'd usually be home
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on like a Sunday and it was usually like he'd get home at like five or six and then he'd be gone kind of in the
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morning so I'd probably see him like maybe once twice a week oh no once every
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week or two for some weeks so he wouldn't be home but where he was really good was he he
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would do things where you know he might literally catch a flight home at 9 00 PM just to like say
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good night stay the night and you're leaving it for him so when I was younger I was really like
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oh you're never here but now that I'm older I'm like holy [ __ ] like
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you know he really made the effort to try but again when you're young you don't
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it's really hard to have perspective on things when you're when you're young I
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think I'm especially like going through puberty in your teenage years it's like
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the whole world revolves around around you yeah so if your dad's not there he's
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spending too much time on his work and if your prime minister rightfully show you so you probably should you take it
00:18:25
personally yeah well I there was always the joke that he cared about as Blackberry more than likes Town
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yeah they always had two on them it was like a little burner phone thing yeah so
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did they um if they have any hard and fast rules like never you know you can do you can do whatever you want but like
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never never be seen doing drugs or never do this or or is it just like they just trusted you
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to have the common sense to conduct yourself in a um I feel like I'm quite morally sound myself like I don't need
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my parents like I barely drink now like I didn't drink from January till September this year
00:19:02
I think I did once for my My Best Friend's Wedding um yeah that's a journey we've got to
00:19:07
get into soon the Jiu Jitsu Journey yeah and I don't know I like when I was at high school I was
00:19:13
very into my sport I was trying to be like a pro baseball player um and I was I was since I was born in
00:19:19
Singapore and London I started school like a year early I started at four whereas here you start at five right so
00:19:25
I was really young for my year like I finished school when I was 16. but I did school but I was just like I
00:19:32
was late May and I was young so I was almost like two years young so I think like when I was at school you know a lot
00:19:38
of the kids were like 18 and getting into drinking and girls and I like barely had my driver's license like and
00:19:45
I was just really focused on my Sport and so that kind of stuff I didn't have that many arguments for my
00:19:51
parents about because it just wasn't I wasn't that into it and then I suppose
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if you're a parent you're right you raise your kid right and then just hope
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they're going to make the right decisions yeah and I guess I don't know it just
00:20:01
obviously I got I went through a phase maybe when I was like 19 to 22 where I was like drinking and partying and but
00:20:08
it it's kind of funny like I have this really bad reputation of being this like
00:20:12
DJ party boy but I mean she's like not loose at all like all my friends think
00:20:17
I'm a massive [ __ ] like I never really drink that often like I'm just not not
00:20:22
into drugs like it's just not I'm actually not like that I'm actually a
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bit of a nerd and it's funny because everyone that meets me like I'll meet
00:20:29
girls and I'll have to meet the appearance and I'll be like oh you you're still a party boy and I've heard
00:20:34
about you and it's really funny because I'm just not like that yeah but I think
00:20:38
I just went through that phase on social media where I was like I'm gonna show
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all the fun bits and everyone everyone does that shot of people's it's their
00:20:46
top five percent of people's lives yeah but I think people just wanted to create
00:20:50
this image of my head that made them feel better about themselves because I mean even when I was a DJ I was working
00:20:55
at Jardin which is like a you know the top brokering share brokering company and you know what did you study at Uni I
00:21:02
did Finance international business and property yeah yeah you can do both those things hey you can't be the party boy in
00:21:08
the no and so like take it seriously as a nine to five well I was working like seven till eight right like every day
00:21:14
like crazy hours you know and then I'd DJ like on Saturday night so I'd do a
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tour or and so that was the thing was like you know I topped classes at Uni like I
00:21:22
studied really hard like tried to be straight A but I just never to me when you're 21
00:21:28
I'm like who cares about that so I never posted about that you know and there'd
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always be comments like oh go get a job or like go get a degree and I'd be sitting there like I've got two and you
00:21:38
know I've got a job you know I'm working probably harder than you you know but I
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never I just got so you never clapped back no I just got so numb to it that was the one thing growing up with it I'm
00:21:46
so like someone could walk in here and be like you're a loser you're this and
00:21:51
it just doesn't phase me like it's terrible to get to that point yeah like
00:21:56
you one thing your dad was um very good at as prime minister was um the self-deprecating thing yeah and it's I
00:22:02
feel like a lot of new zealanders um oh maybe I'm just projecting here for myself but um either then radio because
00:22:08
you feel like well someone's gonna have a jab at me so I might as well go going
00:22:11
first yeah yeah is that the same for you it still [ __ ] hurts though that stuff
00:22:17
I mean I think there's exceptions to the rule so if a good friend of mine and someone
00:22:22
that I respect calls me out and goes you're being an [ __ ] or you're actually like crossing a line 100 or
00:22:29
listen yeah but there's some random troll on the herald calls me a loser like cool you know like that that stuff
00:22:37
does not have a single drop of impact on me oh that's good that's a good place to
00:22:41
be because yeah um so yeah I I suppose I got like a little bit of radio Fame like in my it
00:22:47
probably didn't start to my 30s I have a funny story about that oh really so I
00:22:51
came in for because remember every year dad would do Christmas yeah and become a
00:22:55
Christmas gifts bottle of wine yeah if I remember I met um JJ Mike and Domin you guys signed
00:23:01
this like little poster thing but did we yeah and I literally used to have it like on my walls
00:23:06
so [ __ ] and I thought it was the coolest thing ever yeah but um where I was going with that
00:23:14
it's like um so I became self-exposed I guess to that sort of social media trolling or whatever when I was a grown
00:23:19
ass man and here you are your late teens dealing with it that's [ __ ] difficult
00:23:24
yeah I feel like you know when you're older you're probably more emotionally
00:23:27
emotionally well equipped to deal with it than being a young kid just navigating your way through [ __ ]
00:23:31
puberty and yeah going from being a boy to a man and that's where I think what I was
00:23:37
touching on earlier where I say like I feel like my upbringing was complicated like it's not I'm not sitting here
00:23:43
saying it was harder than anyone else's I just think it was really different I
00:23:46
mean there's not many people that go through it I couldn't talk to anyone and be like oh
00:23:50
how do I deal with getting abused by 50 year old men on Facebook right you know like everywhere I went people would like
00:23:59
scream stuff at me and it was so polarizing I'd have you know people that were like massive fans and would pay to
00:24:04
come to my shows and pay to do meet and greets and people that would try to kill
00:24:08
me if they you know it was like you know I'd be getting like literal death threats regularly and like so it was
00:24:13
just it was unbelievable with um the death threats it's like um what do you do with that you just hand it to the
00:24:18
cops in the camper van in your driveway and um or do you just sort of laugh it off or
00:24:23
um I mean most of them are probably looneys but it's not something that you know you can't [ __ ] make jokes like
00:24:27
that well that is a joke they track all that right like if someone threatened anyone in our family
00:24:35
it would get sorted very very quickly they do take that stuff yeah seriously and that you know now there's laws in
00:24:42
place that you can go to prison you know for that so they would pretty quickly part of me like work out
00:24:48
who set up where it's coming from and you know as you said sometimes it would
00:24:52
just be a drunk kid that said it you know and that very quickly apologize and kind of take it down but then yeah there
00:24:59
were some people where it wasn't a joke um and obviously that got dealt with in different ways but yeah I
00:25:05
mean every every threat would get assessed like differently but um yes I don't know I guess still back to a
00:25:13
question like on dealing with it I think it was weird I I didn't real I've kind of gone on like
00:25:19
a mental health journey in the last like few years which I didn't realize how messed up it all
00:25:24
made me like oh man it's a lot to unpack it was it's crazy like I was always like a very
00:25:30
happy chill kid like you know if you met me when I was 18 and I was getting abused all the time online and that was
00:25:37
when I had like heaps of hate and because now I feel like I don't get as much hate you know I'm kind of running a
00:25:42
business I'm building people houses and I feel like I'm trying to do good things
00:25:46
now so I'm getting like less abused constantly whereas back then when I was like a bit of a dropkick DJ like you
00:25:53
could see why everyone thought I was at all like and I like that no no no actually
00:25:57
you can't you can't think someone's a tall just because they're wearing a
00:26:01
bandana and no shirt yeah but I can see like but I've got a post here so this
00:26:05
was um this was made on um your 26th birthday how old are you now 27. I realized for the last few years of my
00:26:11
life I'd portrayed this party boy dropkick version of myself that was actually not an accurate representation
00:26:16
of the person I really am I hated the way I presented myself and learned the lessons and negative effects social
00:26:20
media can play blah blah blah blah um I mean is that being a bit hard on yourself I feel like you were just like
00:26:27
just growing up being normal I mean you know you had it you you you still have a
00:26:32
good rig you had a good rig you had some photos with your top off most I think um like normal teenage boys
00:26:39
that have that are just like developing that body in a workout they want to show
00:26:43
it off I think that post is quite complicated so I took about 18 months off social media like I
00:26:51
just didn't didn't post and I feel like I kind of sat there and I'm denied
00:26:56
whether I'd ever get back by the way what was the Catalyst for taking that break was there like a was there a rock
00:27:01
bottom or something or I life I'm being honest I had quite a big mental breakdown and that's what I was trying
00:27:06
to say before is I didn't realize the toll it had on me because as we were saying at the start of the
00:27:11
podcast I would sit there and go oh like I've got rich parents and I went to a
00:27:15
private school and I I shouldn't feel sad like I you know so much to be grateful for it yeah and
00:27:22
I'd be like I guess I was I was quite self-aware so I'd sit there and go well
00:27:28
why would I feel like this when you know I did like community service at school like there was a big thing at Kings you
00:27:35
know and I saw people like kind of living on the other side I guess I don't know how to say that better but
00:27:40
and I was very aware I was like [ __ ] that you know how I can't moan about anything I'm going through so I I just
00:27:47
got to a point where I my way of dealing with it because it was so overwhelming was I would just ignore
00:27:54
it and I got literally so good that I didn't care and I like literally didn't
00:28:00
care just numbed out to it so numb but I was numb with all my emotions I when I was dating girls like
00:28:07
you know I'd struggled to feel love like I wouldn't accept love from people
00:28:11
I was nice I'm not saying I was like an [ __ ] to everyone but I just had no
00:28:14
emotion like I could break up with someone I'd be ah whatever and I'd want to feel hurt and then I'd
00:28:19
go but then I'd go through these extremes I'd feel really upset for a little bit but I just had this like
00:28:24
crazy way of just switching it off and it was it was bizarre and I didn't really notice until I got older that it
00:28:31
was kind of a problem anyway I went traveling it was really weird it was I'd always
00:28:36
been so go go so I got diagnosed with ADD a couple years ago and OCD which I never knew I had did you how did they
00:28:43
don't know I'm pretty sure I've got that as well yeah I mean are you on like
00:28:47
wrestling or Concerta or no I take stuff for my OCD right right um like an SSRI but um
00:28:55
yeah like I because I've always been super hypo and they've worked out with
00:28:59
add that it's not like a disorder anymore it's more like a brain type so
00:29:04
people that are just very high energy and always go go go go that's kind of it's more like a spectrum as opposed to
00:29:09
like you have a condition because you can't like fix it you know it's just you
00:29:13
know if you're someone that's super high energy maybe you are on that Spectrum
00:29:16
but obviously it is a spectrum so there's people where it affects them so much that they can't concentrate or so I
00:29:23
don't have it to like extreme levels or anything like that but anyway one thing
00:29:27
I didn't understand was I've always kept myself so busy like literally the day I
00:29:32
finished uni I went from my exam to full-time work and when I was at Uni I was working while at Uni and I like if
00:29:39
you were like oh come over and let's sit on the couch and just sit here I would like have a
00:29:44
mental breakdown I hate that I have to be like like an active relaxer oh like but to like an unhealthy extreme right
00:29:52
right you know like this morning got up went to the gym at seven like had meetings eight till ten then went to
00:29:57
Physio then came here like I'll be busy till the moment I go to sleep and I just
00:30:03
have to be like that I just crammed so much stuff in 24 7 I'm always like and so
00:30:09
I my way of dealing with everything was I was so busy that I just ignored it and
00:30:14
so what happened was I went on this OE you know my whole life my parents been like you have to achieve you have to do
00:30:19
this like you have to study you have to get your grades you have to make money like they were so strict on me and like
00:30:24
because they wanted me to do well but they pushed me and then I went from that you know working like Investment Banking
00:30:30
crazy hours so much pressure you know and then all the pressure of growing up with Dad like the social
00:30:36
media and then I'm sitting on the beach in the Bahamas literally on my own in
00:30:41
the middle of nowhere with no service no one knows me like just literally nothing and my parents being like Oh
00:30:49
yeah have fun and I remember I was sitting on a speech I just started crying and I was like this is the weirdest
00:30:54
thing ever and as I'm in the most beautiful place I've ever been in my life and I'm miserable
00:30:59
and I called my mum and I was like I let you think I'm depressed I was like I
00:31:03
don't know what it is but it was it was so confusing for me because I always
00:31:06
thought depression was like you sat in your bed and it was dark and you couldn't get out and you wanted to
00:31:12
kill yourself and that was my idea of depression but I wasn't feeling like that like I still want to do lots I
00:31:18
still but I just wasn't happy either it was nothing was bringing you the joy that it
00:31:22
should have no I just felt numb about everything like I wasn't like unhappy or
00:31:26
miserable but I wasn't happy either and I think what I've now learned since
00:31:31
I go into counseling and stuff like that is that um like with that kind of brain any big
00:31:37
change or being too not doing anything for too long can really unsettle you and so I had my
00:31:45
whole life I just been like you know I was always that kid that played like three Sports and went to school and had
00:31:49
friends and did this and then just so go go like I'd have a friend round and I'd
00:31:53
leave and I'd be like oh it's called another friend let's go normal you know
00:31:57
like always wanted to like do stuff and so you know then I was like I want to go
00:32:02
travel by myself and I don't know it was just weird into I really remember I sat on that beach I
00:32:09
had my phone and I was I need to do something about this because I was like this isn't like good so I called my
00:32:15
parents had like a big chat and you know they were kind of like oh maybe you should come home and I was like nah I
00:32:19
think I think I want to like ride this out I just started writing this thing on my notes and it was literally like
00:32:26
I'd never kind of worked out what I wanted because my whole life I'd been in
00:32:29
the spotlight and doing all these different things and I think I sat there and I realized I was
00:32:35
only doing Investment Banking because Dad did it and he told me about it and it was cool and he'd been successful and
00:32:41
like I was good at that stuff like I'm good with numbers and you know I handle
00:32:44
pressure really well and I kind of went into it though because like he did it in a way I wasn't like
00:32:51
literally like I want to do it because Dad did it but you know it was just something I'd always been like I'm going
00:32:54
to be especially for it's quite common for people to follow on their parents
00:32:57
footsteps yeah but I just found like I was in there and everyone's like oh your
00:33:00
dad was the best Trader and he was this and you know so then you know I was like oh what does
00:33:06
everyone else think it's kind of cool and I was always really into music you
00:33:09
know DJing was popular and I was like oh let's try this you know I kind of felt
00:33:14
like I was doing I had no identity because I was always John Key's son and I was like on this massive quest to try
00:33:20
to be Max kid sorry about that 25 minutes of this podcast has been asking questions about your old man I'm sorry
00:33:26
yeah no that's all good but that that was what I found so tough and that's why
00:33:31
I loved the DJing was because For the First Time I became Max Key and everyone thought I was so into the
00:33:37
publicity and this and that but it's actually not the psychology of why I loved it to me it was like
00:33:43
I was me I wasn't oh this is John Keystone it wasn't like oh you know I finally had like I was my own
00:33:50
name and I had my own thing and people knew me for that and I looked good um the the original stuff you did I looked
00:33:57
that up on Spotify yesterday you were most successful songs got over a million lessons yeah now what no mean feat yeah
00:34:03
so I mean that was the thing like it all like did all good you know I didn't you
00:34:07
know a few of those kind of got to like number one on Spotify for a little bit and
00:34:12
you know I'm not sitting here saying I'm like Calvin Harris yeah but I mean no no no
00:34:19
yeah like I always put 100 into everything I do so I like I felt like the quality you know of everything I did
00:34:25
was was solid but I think yeah when I was like sitting in the Bahamas I started basically trying to work out I
00:34:31
just wrote this list and I was literally like why do eyes Max he actually want out of life like what do I want to
00:34:37
achieve and what are some things that I want to do and what makes me happy and it was so weird and then from that
00:34:44
moment I was like I need to get off social media because I need to stop showing other people what I think they
00:34:49
want to see and I was just I'm just gonna get off I just got to a point I don't care if you
00:34:54
like myself I don't care if you think I'm having fun because I'm gonna go have
00:34:57
fun and I was like I don't care and that's why I stopped vlogging and doing all
00:35:01
this stuff because I was like all the fun I was having I was never filming and all the stuff I was filming I was
00:35:06
forcing and it wasn't actually the stuff that was really fun and people would go
00:35:09
wow that was amazing and I was like no the actual amazing thing was when I met this person or I did this or if I didn't
00:35:15
film it because I was having so much fun I'd do it and so I just got to a point
00:35:19
where I was like I think with the OC I get so obsessed with things so I just became obsessed
00:35:24
with like wanting to be better I think that's an 80d thing as well like hyper
00:35:27
fixating are you so hyper fixated yeah and so I created this rule for myself where I was like every time I was going
00:35:33
to use social media I read a book like an ebook and ended up reading like 53 books while I was traveling wow and then
00:35:40
I got like obsessed with reading and seen I'd read every night and that's
00:35:43
like the worst OE ever I know parents are probably like oh no Max is probably out doing coke tonight no he's in his
00:35:49
hostel on his Kindle no so I I mean don't get me wrong I still like win out and like I still had heaps of fun while
00:35:55
I was traveling but say like I was on a train and I would normally just sit there scrolling
00:36:00
Instagram for two hours I just like read oh the zombie scroll yeah it's a that's
00:36:03
a trap isn't it well I just realized how much time I was wasting and like you
00:36:07
know I'm not sitting here saying I was reading like five hours a day and completely light
00:36:12
but it was just like when I'd be sitting at an airport or on a plane or you know
00:36:17
I'd do a Kentucky and it'd be a seven hour bus ride I might read for an hour
00:36:19
and I couldn't believe how much stuff I you know and so then it just created
00:36:25
this thing where I was like I just became obsessed with like learning about myself and so I started I always tried
00:36:30
breaking down to three different types I'd always read like a psychology book
00:36:34
to try like yeah and then I'd always read like a business book on like a mentor I liked
00:36:41
so like maybe Elon musk's book or like Phil Knight's book or and then I always
00:36:46
yeah such a good book and then my final thing would always be just something I enjoyed
00:36:51
just so it would be something more like fun to break it up because some of the psychology books can get a bit it
00:36:56
doesn't sound like fun no no but to me I just got so like fixated on spending all
00:37:02
my time learning and just growing and trying to be bitter yeah when there's a
00:37:07
great book called um you've probably even read this one or read bits about Atomic habits and it talks about like
00:37:11
whether you do like little good things or little bad things that's going to take you take your other on an upward
00:37:16
trajectory or a downward trajectory well that's what I was meaning about like say
00:37:19
with the reading it might only be 10 15 minutes a day but yeah you know I was traveling for 18 months and I had no job
00:37:24
so I had you know an hour two hours a day where I wasn't doing much you know and so that's where I started
00:37:30
doing all this and that's why I read so much it wasn't actually like I was doing
00:37:35
anything freakish or weird I just was using my time kind of wisely yeah and when did um
00:37:42
you see you so you're on the beach in the Bahamas you call your parents you say I'm this this [ __ ] sucks if you
00:37:47
can't be happy swimming with the pigs um so when like so I'm guessing that was
00:37:52
sort of like rock bottom or that was the moment of realization where you thought
00:37:55
I got to do something about this um so like when did you start therapy and when did that how did that Journey
00:38:00
look look like for you um so I only that only happened like when you were back in NZ yeah so I was
00:38:06
only three months into my OE when the Bahamas thing happened I was maybe only like two and a half right but it all
00:38:12
kind of makes sense in hindsight because that was exactly enough time where I had
00:38:16
kind of Switched Off I wasn't stressed I wasn't busy you're forced to slow down
00:38:22
I was forced to slow down actually late it was and that's kind of like it was
00:38:26
almost like this big water balloon and then just went boom whereas my whole life as I said like I was so busy that I
00:38:32
could just you know it's like imagine if you kind of had a breakup and everyone's like oh
00:38:38
just go be busy it's kind of like that like I just distracted myself my whole
00:38:42
life but that's the thing with emotion is that it has to come out in some way
00:38:47
you know you can't just no one because I was like I'm so amazing with stress
00:38:52
because I would never get stressed and if I got stressed I'd be really calm but
00:38:56
then I found out I was stressed 24 7 so when I was stressed it wasn't doing anything to me because I was already
00:39:01
you're always on the hyper alert yeah yeah and there's I think it's interesting because people sit there and
00:39:07
go oh that means you're pulling your hair out every two seconds and it's not
00:39:10
like that it's just I was always busy you know like but then adrenaline State
00:39:14
it's not it's not a good state to be in no it's not a duration no it's terrible
00:39:17
for you and so um yeah so I guess I came home and I'd always known there was something a
00:39:27
little bit weird with me like if you ask anyone that knows me like if you ask anyone that actually
00:39:32
knows you not claim they do how would you describe Mexico I guarantee that all say intense that's kind of like what
00:39:39
most people like oh he's intense like in a good or a bad way you know that that's just how like I'm just full-on
00:39:45
like I talk heaps I'm always like thinking of stuff like and so I always knew there was something like a bit
00:39:52
weird not with the weird's the wrong word there was always something I always
00:39:56
felt a little bit different but not different in a way where because I have really good social skills like I
00:40:01
wouldn't be scared in front of girls and you know I wasn't like again my
00:40:05
definition of all these things because I was sort of OCD was you said to be really tidy but that's not what OCD I
00:40:11
have no yeah how does OCD look like for you I have quite bad interests of thought OCD and I think so I'm a chronic
00:40:18
overthinker right so it's really good in aspects of my life you know that's why
00:40:22
I'm always in really good shape and I feel like I run my business well and I've had success like studying or
00:40:27
because I'm always thinking so much and overthinking what could go wrong that it makes me fixate on that stuff
00:40:34
but then say when I have a girlfriend or I have good things in my life I overthink all
00:40:39
the bad things that could happen and I almost like self-destruct and that's kind of the negative side of
00:40:44
it and that's when I got older I realized whereas when you're younger like well I just played sport I went to
00:40:50
school like maybe I'd fixate on having a bad game or you know like yeah whereas when you get
00:40:55
older you start actually realizing like I became like a massive hypochondriac like I'd get a heart palpitation and be
00:41:02
like Oh am I having a heart attack and I'd like Google symptoms of that or was that like an
00:41:07
anxiety attack no I just feel anything in my body like I get like a little pain in my head for
00:41:12
two seconds and I'd be like like it I feel like stupid saying this but I got to a point I'd be like I've
00:41:18
got like a like a brain tumor and I would freak out or you get like gurgling symptoms
00:41:25
you know and then I'd be like maybe I should talk to my doctor but with OCD you just Loop yeah you know and I'd sit
00:41:31
there and be like oh like what if the doctor doesn't pick up on it and that's
00:41:35
the problem with OCD is there's no answer you just can keep asking the same question over and over and over and so I
00:41:42
did all this my whole life like I always ask for reassurance I'd always be so like as a kid I was all and to bring
00:41:49
that to your question I've always been anti-smoking like I've never smoked a
00:41:52
cigarette in my life never will and as a kid would walk past someone that would smoke I'd go like Mom Dad why
00:41:59
is that guy smoking they'll be like because he's addicted I'd be like but
00:42:01
why is he addicted and then I'll be like oh because he wants to be and I'd be like well why it
00:42:06
kills you and I'd and so then I'd sort that out and then we'd go 100 meters
00:42:10
we'll walk past another smoker be like Mom Dad why is it and we told you there was heaps of stuff like that as a
00:42:17
kid where they didn't understand that that was like OCD and I did I ever said how old
00:42:22
were you at the time because I feel like it's common for kids to ask a million
00:42:25
questions of their parents and so that was the thing so it was when I was young but
00:42:29
I would ask like everywhere I go like Jiu Jitsu School everyone's like he asked way too many questions because I
00:42:35
just get so fixated on like I have to learn but I do like weird things to like say we're in like the
00:42:41
helicopter once and dad was talking to like another guy because he's doing his
00:42:45
PPL and they were talking about the engines Private Pilot and they were talking about like the
00:42:51
engineering of you know the motor and I sat there and had no value to add to the
00:42:56
conversation I felt like an idiot and I literally went home and for like five hours just studied like helicopter
00:43:01
engineering just in case you know like so as a kid like my parents are like oh he's just inquisitive and he just asked
00:43:09
a lot and so no one really oh so you just never sort of grew out of it like toddlers do eventually but no
00:43:15
one knew no one thought because it wasn't like a problem you know as I said it's a spectrum so I wasn't like
00:43:20
uncapable of folks saying I wasn't like I was just intense and everyone just
00:43:25
thought I was full-on but then my dad's really intense so yeah everyone's always
00:43:28
just like his dad and so it wasn't until I got older and I started understanding
00:43:32
more that there were so many things I was doing that were like OCD which I just had no idea about
00:43:38
and um I think oh actually sorry there's one thing that happened while I was
00:43:44
traveling so I caught the Bubonic plague when I was in Bosnia oh my God what year were you traveling
00:43:50
at 1885 I know so I was the first I think I was the first person in New Zealand since 1905 to get it
00:43:57
yeah it's called Yesenia it's like Yesenia in Terror or something it seems
00:44:03
like the worst thing for a hypochondriac to catch well that that's what caused
00:44:06
the hypochondria so and that's what so apparently when you have like something
00:44:10
like lurking or that's like dormant if you have like a really triggering event
00:44:15
that can like offset or that can create the problem so I was never as OCD as I like
00:44:22
am now and I was never a hypochondria I was a little bit but never to any extreme but I caught that and like
00:44:30
I wouldn't say I nearly died but I lost like 15 20 kilos I was you know fainting
00:44:35
like it was all like truly literally horrific but I couldn't eat food for like nothing there no vaccine no nothing
00:44:41
they can no only like a couple hundred people a year catcher it's really rare
00:44:45
and like so that was the problem I was going to I ended up in hospital like seven times I was traveling and every
00:44:51
time I'd go there'd be a list of like 200 things you could have and be like
00:44:56
number 200 because no one catches it and so they were always like oh you're dehydrated or you're this or you're
00:45:01
there and so no one could like fix me and so that's what caused the hypochondria because I was so nervous
00:45:07
because you know you can tell on your body when something's going wrong and you know it's got like a decently High
00:45:12
death rate and I was like a really really fit 24 year old and caught it and it absolutely hit me for six so if you
00:45:18
were 70 or 80 in court you can see how it just destroyed you like for 18 months my gut was just ruined like couldn't eat
00:45:26
I was throwing stuff up like almost got IBS like I was constantly getting like gastroscopy he's like how is this even
00:45:33
still a thing like they they came up with a vaccine for covert in a couple of years yeah well it's basically it's not
00:45:39
the exact same as to be on a plague where you get bitten by like a mosquito but if you drink contaminated water that has
00:45:46
I think copper in it right and then I ate pork that had eaten or drank the water
00:45:52
and so there's like two weird it's either contaminated water or really bad
00:45:56
yeah Peg like pork that's eaten it it was in like we're in Sarajevo and kind
00:46:01
of like a stay-over thing with like a we're like a local family's house and
00:46:04
you know so I'd say it's probably from something like that but I mean you take
00:46:09
that risk when you travel you know it's um but I think that's what yeah really
00:46:14
unsettled me was I didn't know what was going wrong and I was going to all these
00:46:17
Specialists and they kept telling me was something wrong with you but I'm sitting
00:46:20
there like there's definitely something wrong I literally felt like I was dying
00:46:23
like especially if you're if you're if you're in as in tune with your own body
00:46:26
as what you were you know then I knew something really bad and I'm calling my
00:46:29
parents I'm like we'll go to the doctor I go to the doctor and they'd be like
00:46:31
there's nothing wrong with you drink some water and so then I finally got to the point
00:46:35
where because I was having all these arguments with my parents they were like we'll come home and get everything
00:46:39
tested so I literally did every test Under the Sun and then that's when they
00:46:43
discovered that like holy like you've had this thing called Yesenia and even
00:46:47
my doctor like had to Google it because apparently it's the first thing you learn on day one of like medical school
00:46:51
they're like you're never gonna need this they start at number 200 and working yeah and so yeah and but it was
00:46:58
one of those things where once you've got it they can't do anything you just
00:47:01
have to kind of go through it and so the remnants of it all was I became a hypochondriac because I sat there and
00:47:08
went oh like what if I died and so I started getting like started freaking out about death and
00:47:13
you know my health and I just kind of became is that those fears of death with this thing were they rational or is that
00:47:19
irrational well it's probably the OCD you know it's probably just the uncertainty of it all yeah and it made
00:47:24
me realize just how fragile everything is and you know because I think in New Zealand
00:47:28
we do live quite sheltered lives you know you don't sit there and um you know you don't really think about
00:47:34
the [ __ ] plague no you don't yeah no no so but I um I um I went to see a therapist um for a while I'm not on
00:47:43
therapy at the moment but it was one of the hardest things I've ever done but
00:47:46
one of the best things as well and while I was there I was like why the [ __ ] did
00:47:49
I take so long to embark on this tuning because one of the it's like a personal
00:47:53
trainer for your [ __ ] head well that's the thing like this this therapist said to me one day when you're
00:47:57
when you're having like a ridiculous or irrational thoughts or you're in a
00:48:00
critical your inner voice is going crazy and you realize you're doing it pull
00:48:04
yourself up and just ask yourself is this helping yeah it never is but were you able to do that or no so that that's
00:48:11
the whole kind of like therapy process was now I get to a point where I go is this
00:48:17
fact or opinion if it's a opinion I just ignore it and so just with your own thoughts on
00:48:23
the things that you yeah so I'm sitting there and I'm going am I because it
00:48:27
started with hypochondria but then it would you know it evolved into like heaps of different like anything with
00:48:32
uncertainty I'd start yeah because nothing but what you realize is nothing in life's uncertain
00:48:36
that I could be like see you next week but you might get hit by a bus or I might fall off a cliff or you know the
00:48:42
world might explode who doesn't you know it might be 99 certain but there's
00:48:46
nothing that's actually certain whereas with OCD you try get certainty about
00:48:51
everything and so you don't realize how many things in life are actually uncertain and so I
00:48:58
think you just start to fix it like everyone fixates on different things so you know some people might be light
00:49:02
switches and they go oh if I don't turn that off the house is going to blow up
00:49:06
and then I might kill my kid or you know they you just start having all these crazy thoughts yeah and it seems um like
00:49:12
crystal clear in your mind that that is going to be the outcome well it's a rationalize it is because it's
00:49:16
triggering your like amygdala which is your like fight or flight and so in time you learn
00:49:23
you know and obviously I have different I go through different patches you know if I'm really stressed or something's
00:49:28
really bothering me I find it harder to manage but you know for quite a while a couple years now I've been pretty in
00:49:34
tune with it all yeah so that's good and you're in a good place now what's your
00:49:37
like in a voice and a Critic like now pretty good yeah I mean I'm so I'm I'm
00:49:42
really tough on myself like I have really high expectations of myself and you know I kind of I am a bit of a
00:49:48
perfectionist I think um so I struggle to do things in halves you know I'm either really really
00:49:55
focused on something or I'm not is it a bit that's not a bad thing is that a bad
00:49:59
thing well this is what is it just annoying I I it's I had Lisa Carrington sitting in the same chair last week New
00:50:05
Zealand's greatest ever Olympian and she she was the same sort of thing whatever
00:50:08
whatever she does she wants to do well like uh you know there's the kayaking
00:50:12
obviously um but even if she's like like cooking a pizza for her and her husband
00:50:16
at home like she wants to be make it really [ __ ] good well that what what my like counselor said was that
00:50:22
almost every highly successful business or Sportsman will have some form of thing
00:50:28
you know because to be that good at something you have to be obsessed but I feel like it's probably healthy or good
00:50:34
to have some things that you just [ __ ] at and you're happy to be shitty well
00:50:37
that's why I started Jujitsu yeah but then you got obsess with it yeah yeah okay all right well let's get into that
00:50:44
now so you so you it's the most Joe Rogan thing ever so you you Rogan goes on and on about you Johnson this podcast
00:50:51
froths about it so you was this a New Year's resolution or kind of I I was dating a girl last year and we
00:50:58
broke up and over summer I was like kind of up north my parents and just kind of cruising really and I was
00:51:05
listening to quite a few of his podcasts and it wasn't necessarily that he was just
00:51:09
going about Jiu Jitsu and was like you should do it because to be blunt we need to talk about it I actually used to skip
00:51:14
those votes because I just didn't like I'm just not and like I was never
00:51:20
that kid that wrestled with his mates growing up and like I'm not a confrontational dude and it's not stuff
00:51:25
that I actually it's not really something I'm That Into You know my dad was never like that with
00:51:30
me I never had Brothers like I just kind of don't I always loved like Ball Sports
00:51:34
and that kind of thing but anyway so what actually got me hooked on it was have you heard of Jocko willink no you
00:51:43
should listen to him he's like awesome so he's a Navy SEAL and he does like
00:51:46
these really cool motivational talks and he's been on Joe Rogan a lot that they're really good friends and he's a
00:51:50
black belt in Jiu Jitsu he was talking about goal sitting and so he talks about say that I come to you or I set myself a
00:51:57
goal and I go I want to do 50 pull-ups by the end of the year and say that I get to like 46 by the end
00:52:04
of the year and that I get to the point where to do those final four I'd have to
00:52:09
lose 10 kilos stop training and stop working because I have to do all this other stuff just to achieve this like
00:52:16
tiny incremental goal he's kind of saying that as much as you want to always set out to achieve what
00:52:23
you want to do there's also a point where is that tiny gain that you're getting worth abandoning everything else
00:52:29
in your life and so he talks about you constantly need to revise your goals but you need to be
00:52:36
at least you know in your head thinking you know could stay with you with your Marathon running you could easily be
00:52:42
like I got to 30k and it was tough so oh that's close enough you know like he's
00:52:47
not saying like do that but it was say that if you wanted to be half an hour quicker in your Marathon you had to stop
00:52:53
podcasting stop your job have no friends and never eat anything nice yeah it's
00:52:58
opportunity cost or lost isn't it yeah so it it's just weighing it up it's not
00:53:03
necessarily saying quit all your goals before you achieve stuff because obviously you still need to achieve but
00:53:07
is that worth it and so and that's kind of like part of what I thought with social media like is this adding but
00:53:15
anyway so what Joe then replied to that is he goes that's really true and he's
00:53:19
like the best way to constantly be growing and developing your brain because it's kind of like a muscle is to
00:53:25
constantly be really crap at something because that feeling of being terrible it forces you to evolve and that that's
00:53:35
what got me into it I was like and that's what he was saying is amazing with Jiu Jitsu was he's like I've been
00:53:40
doing it for like 20 years or how long he's been doing it I'm a black belt but
00:53:44
every day I learned something new and every day I feel vulnerable and every day there's someone choking me out and
00:53:49
making me feel uncomfortable and that's kind of what got me hooked was it was
00:53:53
like what I hate is I feel like I get so obsessed with things that I like suck the life out of them and then I feel
00:54:01
like I've like cracked it yeah like with baseball I got to a point where I was in
00:54:04
the New Zealand team I was training really hard I wanted to go to America but like I was never going to be the
00:54:09
next Derek Judah but I had already done pretty well like in New Zealand or you know I'd get into golf and I'd got to
00:54:16
scratch and you know I could it's not going to be tiger or yeah Ryan Fox no that's the thing and like I was playing
00:54:22
with like guys like Ryan you know I was in that Circle and but I wasn't quite
00:54:26
there and so I kind of did that with everything in life where I was like I'm
00:54:30
what's the like saying where you like a master at everything but a a jack of all
00:54:34
trades master of none master of none yeah I was kind of like that like I was kind of like all around pretty good at a
00:54:39
lot of things but I wasn't like epic or anything and I think it was because I would get
00:54:44
to that point where it was like I either had to say with golf I got to a point where I had to stop business and work if
00:54:50
I wanted to compete with those guys that did it full time so then I get to a point where I'm like ah something would
00:54:55
switch my brain I go I'm not really that into that now so I still play every now
00:54:59
and then I can still do well but I lose that like that intense passion just to be like
00:55:05
insanely good at it which is what will motivate me and so do you think if you if you found something that you enjoyed
00:55:11
and you stuck with it and you kept at it um you'd eventually like break through
00:55:15
and get to that next level well that's where I'm with my business right yeah
00:55:19
and so that's like why I love it so much um and to me it's something like I see
00:55:24
myself doing a long time yeah yeah um I want to get to the business but first year first of all the Jiu Jitsu
00:55:31
thing so you start in like January this year about February February yeah and um
00:55:35
and then then before long you're going like twice a day yeah so I started geez
00:55:41
you're all you are all or nothing yes so yeah my parents always make like a joke
00:55:45
like I got back into swimming I used to swim quite a lot and I um I kind of started going like twice a
00:55:52
week and then I started going like six times a week but Dad was literally like a head a bit with mum how long it would
00:55:58
take before like because I was like I'm gonna go to the Masters games and like
00:56:01
then covert Heaven signed it up stopping that but is it an addictive personality
00:56:06
so I'm really weird like I am super addictive but then like you know I'd never drank like yeah yeah
00:56:13
good addictions yeah well good and bad like I think when you're too I get so
00:56:19
focused that sometimes I don't have fun at things like say with golf I got to a
00:56:24
point where you know I could like break power or you know play really well but I'd be like kicking myself that I shot
00:56:30
one over whereas five years earlier if I played with Dad socially and I shot 90 yeah I'd have the best day ever yeah you
00:56:37
know so now I'm trying to learn how to like like I go out with my friends on
00:56:40
Fridays now and I play and I don't care what I shoot and I'm not trying to be
00:56:45
yeah just try literally have fun with it and so that's been something I really
00:56:50
struggle with but like you're aware it's an issue and you're working on it but
00:56:55
see with the Jujitsu I started I was going probably two three I think when you start they like recommend that you
00:57:02
start like twice a week for a couple weeks because you use all these muscles like you don't even know existed so what
00:57:07
what is it like like wrestling on a map is it kind of resting on a map how would
00:57:10
you say for someone that's listening to this that's got no idea what Jiu Jitsu
00:57:14
is is there a way you could sum it up in a sentence or two it's like a ground-based grappling system
00:57:20
um so in in competition you start on your feet so it's kind of like a combination of Judo takedowns with like
00:57:27
wrestling sort of it is light wrestling but there's submissions so you know you're like I'm buying people need locks
00:57:33
choking people um but it's what's awesome about it is it's designed so that I could be way smaller
00:57:41
than you but I use your body weight against you so it's actually entirely practical you know every night
00:57:48
I roll with guys that you know maybe 30 kilos heavier than me and I can have a like good spa with them and
00:57:53
you know it's like one of very very few Combat Sports where I can go full to
00:57:57
every night whereas with like boxing like you can't get punched in the face yeah the bigger means always going to
00:58:03
win yeah and like you can't get smacked in the head every night you know you'd
00:58:06
end up branded yeah whereas like with this sport you can go because you tap so anytime obviously like injuries happen
00:58:13
and mistakes happen but you can train really really hard every night which that's what I think is really cool about
00:58:18
it and I think what's also awesome is you're fighting a real person every night whereas you know
00:58:25
with like karate or some of these other things a lot of it's more learning like the
00:58:29
technique behind it but I'm not taking anything away from those forces no no you've just found your
00:58:34
thing yeah I just think for me it's like there's a lot of genuine self-defense
00:58:40
principles you learn and I think a lot of fights especially in New Zealand end up on the ground you know and if someone
00:58:46
was to take me to the ground two years ago I'd have no idea and that happened
00:58:50
to me in Croatia I got jumped by kind of like four or five guys I've got the
00:58:54
labor supporters but yeah I just got like the ship bid now to me and did you actually yeah well like like when they
00:59:01
they stole your money shoes what they they tried to yeah right um and that was another thing that kind
00:59:06
of triggered my anxiety a completely random thing they they weren't new zealanders or anything though no idea
00:59:11
who I was and um you hear about that stuff happening overseas it's like we're talking before
00:59:15
you I mean you have to take when you travel yesterday calculated risks well that's the thing where you ate the pork
00:59:20
yeah yeah yeah I mean if if you sat there and when I'm never going to try anything or do anything different
00:59:26
because I don't want you know the risk it's not a life nah and that's the thing
00:59:30
like I think the funnest things in life are where you know there is a bit of danger or not
00:59:35
danger but you know like you have to like try new things and that's the whole
00:59:38
in my eyes that's why you travel I want a new experiences and um so is the Jujitsu going to be after
00:59:44
having this conversation with you it's I can see the way you light up when you
00:59:48
talk about Jiu Jitsu but with everything else that's been set up part of me is
00:59:51
worried you're going to get to a year and like just go oh that's this I'm
00:59:55
never going to be the best in the world and I'm done well I feel like you've found your piece
01:00:00
with it where you can just keep where to be part of your life forever or well that's where I feel I mean like I went
01:00:05
to World Champs I didn't win I mean it was that was tough because I have only been doing a short amount of
01:00:11
time and the guy lost who was like five years yeah to make to go to the world Champs after doing it seven eight months
01:00:16
whatever it was yeah it sounds remarkable no I was pretty stoked and I did another tournament in Texas that I
01:00:20
came second at and that was like almost as big as the worlds and um yeah so like I I feel like I've
01:00:26
progressed like really fast for I mean it's such a humbling sport like I get
01:00:31
the crap in out of me every night by everyone you know and the moment you feel like you're getting
01:00:37
a tiny bit better you just get smoked again um but to me I love the mental side of
01:00:42
it I know it sounds like really corny but I don't know like it's bizarre say you have some
01:00:50
120 kilo just monster on top of you most nights most nights yeah like choking the [ __ ]
01:00:57
out of you you learned how to like last night I was like in this triangle which is where people wrap their legs around
01:01:03
your neck and they like squeeze it down it's awful like all the blood goes to
01:01:07
your head and you think you're gonna die like but you learn to just sit there and
01:01:12
breathe and I sat there and because come up with it what sit there pause and come
01:01:17
up with the strategy of how to get out of it yeah because it's it's literally
01:01:20
like chess and that is why I love it so much so say I go to fake like a sweep on
01:01:26
you where I'm like oh I'm gonna scissor sweep you left I might set that up so
01:01:29
then you put all your weight on your right leg and then I go do something completely different and I baited you
01:01:35
into defending that so I attack you with something different it's kind of like
01:01:38
that like I might make you look left so I go right it's literally like a step in
01:01:42
rugby but with Jiu Jitsu there might be eight attacks and so the black belts might be faking like seven things
01:01:48
whereas I might only know three and that's why the higher belts smoke yourself so what color ability unit I'm
01:01:53
still white but I'm pretty close to my blue right which takes normally about
01:01:56
two three years it says white the first one yeah oh so you're in like a white
01:01:59
belt division at the world champs yeah okay but that's where like it's interesting it works because you
01:02:06
get guys that like the guy I lost who got promoted to Blue on the podium so you know he's like a blue belt that
01:02:12
you know he'd been a white belt for five years whereas you can be a purple belt
01:02:16
you nearly be black after five years right so so there's there's no way of
01:02:20
accelerating the process you just you have to do your time on each color it's
01:02:23
time yeah [ __ ] that must drive you crazy the white and blue is skill but it usually takes about two three years but
01:02:31
since I was training so much hopefully do it in about a year yeah but yeah it's
01:02:35
the same when I get to Blue it's two and a half years like you have to it's like
01:02:38
a you just have to be patient yeah are you not very good at being patient terrible yeah I'm the same yeah like how
01:02:44
much you like they're still tomorrow they're still right now um but that that's why I think I love it
01:02:49
so much as I you know it's like what I was saying how you learn how to breathe like
01:02:54
in a weird way you sit there and say something really stressful happens at work or like with someone you're dating
01:02:59
or I don't know what it is it's just subconsciously you sit there and go well
01:03:03
this isn't as bad as getting choked by but you know like like with that dude's
01:03:09
thighs around my neck yeah so it's like it's so weird you just go oh like
01:03:15
and like say like last night I remember like when that guy was doing that it was
01:03:18
awful lot and I was so close to tapping and I went because it's like this weird
01:03:22
thing where say if I'm squeezing your neck to actually choke you generally well not in every position but some you
01:03:28
really have to like you know really Flex for like a little bit or put heaps of pressure on so let's
01:03:34
say anything if you try to help me for 10 seconds there's a point where like
01:03:37
your forearms are going to give way so it's like this game where like lots of
01:03:41
guys you fight will be expressionless so you might be like a second away from tapping them but you go oh it's not
01:03:47
working like I'm not in deep enough or I don't know the grip right so you'll let
01:03:50
it go but you might have been like a second away from then tapping and so that's like the kind of art of it is
01:03:58
you know when you're having a poker face that's a full poke face yeah and so the really
01:04:03
good guys you roll with you won't know you're hurting them yeah because they'll
01:04:06
just be like and yeah different sport but um at the time we're recording this
01:04:09
uh Israel out of Sanya lost his fight a couple of days ago and just before that was called off he was just getting
01:04:13
smacked in the face repeatedly bang bang bang and he even I don't know maybe he
01:04:18
was on a different planet but he was showing no no emotion yeah no emotion and all not even flinching no well he I
01:04:25
saw something where he hurt the nerve I think in his knee oh is that so on the kick right if you re-watch it because we
01:04:31
when when he did the kick we're all like oh that didn't I thought he'd broken his
01:04:34
leg but like imagine how much that would have hurt like just imagine that like yeah I don't
01:04:42
care how much adrenaline like he would have been in a world of pain like that was half the reason I think he got
01:04:47
Corner because I he was saying he couldn't pivot and you know if you like did all the yeah you'd be stuck but
01:04:53
that's the point is if he sits there and goes oh my knees really sore then the
01:04:56
guy's just gonna murder him yeah punish that knee Target that knee repeatedly
01:04:59
yeah and so that's kind of like the art of it is you know showing no no emotion
01:05:04
and so you kind of learn say like I guess where I'm going with this is when I was in that position you know that if
01:05:11
you can survive however long that may be you just don't give up you know that they'll eventually
01:05:17
give up because there's only so long you like imagine if I said squeeze your bicep as hard as you
01:05:22
can there's a point where you're going to stop because it just hurts and you're
01:05:26
gonna go oh what's not working and so that's what I love about it is it teaches me that patience and you sit
01:05:32
there and that camp I did was the most awful thing I've ever done in my life
01:05:35
Mike by a mile like and what was that how long was the camp it was five four and a
01:05:41
half months right and I was training 10 to 12 three oh six till nine every night
01:05:48
oh my God every day that's your life revolving around this literally well because the property Market was a bit
01:05:54
dead and we were kind of in that transition where I was moving mtk into Stonewood key
01:06:00
um and so it was quite a quiet like period for me I was still busy but you know I but that was the thing I was
01:06:06
working like six or ten one till five and then I was training six storms I had no life I was actually training sleeping
01:06:13
eating working that's all I did like no drinking no partying no friends like did
01:06:17
you enjoy it though or did you hate every minute of it I loved it did you like kind of sick way yeah it was weird
01:06:23
it was awful but it was awesome and it would I I had this weird thing when I was kid
01:06:29
I always wanted to be like a fighter jet pilot or in the SAS but I'm like ruthlessly colorblind and so couldn't
01:06:35
really probably still could have done the SAS but I guess I don't know I'd
01:06:40
it's something I regret not trying to do um but I think because we met a lot of the guys like through
01:06:48
dad and I don't know I I didn't get talked out of it but they were kind of like it's
01:06:53
brutal you know like yeah yeah you're talking about like William I didn't meet
01:06:59
her but um yeah I mean the training is next I'm guessing essays is similar to
01:07:03
Navy Seals on what are some docos about that I think it's worse almost yeah really because it's like the most
01:07:08
respected yeah [ __ ] that why would you want that well and I think that was the
01:07:11
thing whereas I sat there and went like oh it looks awesome and all that but there's a side of it you know like
01:07:16
psychology yeah yeah and like it really affects me I have you know crazy amounts
01:07:22
of respect for those guys and what you know they do for the country and just what they put themselves through and I
01:07:26
think when you're again young you don't realize that you know it's impossible to
01:07:30
have well it's really hard to have a family and the psychological effects and
01:07:34
so I didn't really think about that whereas I guess I got to be exposed to a bit of that so
01:07:39
it made me realize maybe it's not as cool as the good bit seems yeah I'd
01:07:45
always had this weird thing where I like really the idea of like doing the Navy SEAL camp or something like really
01:07:50
intense like that kind of really excited me I don't know why and so when I kind of got because I I was doing
01:07:59
like pretty well at Jiu Jitsu like at the start like I'm quite athletic so I
01:08:02
was like quite coordinated so I was picking it up quite quick and I kind of said since I'm like oh I'm
01:08:07
kind of keen to compete and he's like oh yeah well I was gonna like invite you to
01:08:10
Worlds with us this year because I think you could do really well but you got to
01:08:14
commit to this camp and it's going to be the most awful thing you're doing
01:08:17
so I was kind of like yeah bring it on like you know as I said I was never like a wrestler or a fighter or
01:08:23
and so there's like just some weird thing in my brain that would be kind of cool to become like a bit of a ninja and
01:08:29
you know be a bit tougher and know how to defend myself and just I just wanted to go through something
01:08:34
really hard I don't know why I just build more resilience yeah and so it was
01:08:40
awful like I broke my finger the first week I think I broke I broke my rib like two months in I caught covert a month
01:08:47
and um like I got tennis elbow my right arm and then on top of all that you're just
01:08:55
getting the absolute because I was crap then like you know and I feel I'm still
01:08:59
very bad now but yeah you're never going to be worse than what you are on that
01:09:03
very first yeah and I was terrible I had no idea what I was doing like absolutely
01:09:07
no idea I was still learning all the basics like now now I'm at the point where I'm close to my blue belt and I
01:09:12
have like I kind of know a little bit about everything but nothing at the same time like I I could show you all the
01:09:19
kind of moves I'd do them badly but I understand it all and then from now it's
01:09:23
all like how many hours everything you've done now like a few hundred oh yeah I did 170 classes right which were
01:09:29
two hours so right so it's 340 there and then I was I went to America for six
01:09:34
weeks and I was like living at a um at a school over there I was training late the whole day yeah wow um and then you
01:09:40
know there's all the gym work on top of all that I saw Jimmy three times a week
01:09:43
and you know his side yeah anyway so the training was like just brutal like absolutely brutal
01:09:53
and you know there were days I I'd be in the car crying and like I couldn't feel my
01:09:58
arm and like my robe was in the cat were you driving yourself like going home I'd
01:10:02
be like crawling into beard like I call my Dad or Mom be like Oh I'm in so much
01:10:07
pain they're like well you're a [ __ ] idiot why are you doing this you know
01:10:10
like they had no sympathy for me that's amazing so I couldn't tell you the last
01:10:13
time I cried from um physical pain like emotional emotional pain or even like happy tears I'll cry but really you were
01:10:20
just like that broken I like mentally and physically because I'm not a crier
01:10:23
like yeah it was just I mean I cry like at funerals and yeah of course you know but I'm not
01:10:30
like as I said I'm pretty in tune with high emotion oh I'm pretty good at like
01:10:33
numbing it out but man like you do 10 rounds of six minutes after two hours of training and a gym workout and Technical
01:10:40
Training in the morning and it's not like when you're bad at golf and you
01:10:44
miss a putt and you feel like an idiot you're getting choked and there's some
01:10:48
guy trying to break your arm and you have a broken rib and then you just suck well you give me a three pack any day
01:10:55
yeah and then you yeah take a four pack and then you stand up and you've got
01:10:59
skin saving like you crap like you need to work harder you're this or that and
01:11:03
you're just like because they're just trying to break you because it's all developing that like
01:11:06
mental touch and there were some days where you know you'd just be in the car and everything
01:11:12
hurt and it's 10 p.m and it was Winter and you're just like why am I doing this
01:11:16
like literally why like and I just got what kept you at it then I don't know that sounds awful yeah well
01:11:24
like since they kind of like got us in front of the whole school and he's like
01:11:28
I give him three weeks before he quit and I like you're not allowed to talk like it's very oh yeah yeah master and
01:11:34
Apprentice yeah very and I was like I'll die before I quit in front of the holes
01:11:38
did they have like a bell like the Navy cell Navy no no it's not it's not that
01:11:42
bad but because not that many people do the games right but it's very like the
01:11:46
whole school knows you're doing the comp and you know it's very like the comp
01:11:50
squad's like because my Sensei you know I was like one six-time Oceania champ
01:11:54
and he's very respected you know he's a fifth degree black belt do you think um
01:11:58
just going back to him saying in front of the class that he gives you three weeks or whatever do you think um you've
01:12:03
obviously you've estimate more time with him now you've got more of a relationship as part of that psychology
01:12:07
like you'll take you differently to different yeah oh nobody say that to anyone he's very like tough love yeah
01:12:14
and so in a weird way when he like sure loves you he's meaner to you so he I would say I get picked on more
01:12:25
at training and he's harder on me than he is on other people like he has high expectations of me
01:12:32
whereas there's other people that he's way nicer to but he probably got you
01:12:35
yeah in a weird way like my dad was like that like he was really tough on me like our
01:12:41
relationship's got him better but he was really like that when I was younger
01:12:44
and so what was your dad like with your sister it was a lot easier on here very different relationship yeah I think
01:12:53
that's that's like that with a lot of dads either they treat their sons differently to daughters yeah very like
01:12:57
me me and my sister are like bipolar opposites like she's like blonde hair blue-eyed Arty like loves Europe and big
01:13:05
cities and hates the warm I'm like super sporty like just completely it's amazing
01:13:12
it's like but I think you find that with any sort of like sibling base it's like
01:13:16
I can't believe we're [ __ ] related we are so so different yeah but we are life
01:13:20
so yeah because you know how you see some people like they all three of them look the same they look exactly like
01:13:25
half of the parents yeah yeah oh that's so sweet I like we couldn't be more
01:13:30
dissimilar because you're 27 she's older than you yeah she's nearly 30. 30.
01:13:34
what's what's your relationship like you see much of each other or you just have
01:13:37
like a family group chat that you message on you've got a family you're quite close or not particularly we go
01:13:42
through phases like growing up I don't think we were but I think we were so dissimilar that like with nothing in
01:13:48
common like literally nothing whereas now you know she'll talk to me about Jiu-Jitsu and you know she'll
01:13:55
be interested in my business and I'll talk about you know the stuff she's into
01:13:59
what happens when you're out I'll tell you yeah yeah my age Gap becomes less
01:14:02
and less yeah and I think you know we can both talk about like failed relationships and you know
01:14:08
there's more there's more in common because we've got life in common you know like we can talk
01:14:13
about travel and things we saw and whereas when you're a kid it's like come play basketball with me and she's
01:14:19
like you know the girl stuff yeah yeah and so it should be like come draw and be like no like I bought it yeah so we
01:14:26
and we were so different that there was just nothing we could see I'd like I
01:14:29
loved maths and Eco and she loved art and painting and yeah so I think as a kid like we were so different whereas
01:14:38
now yeah like there's so much more that we but she lives in London so I mean
01:14:42
with the time zone like but we have a really cool relationship like you know I might only touch base once a
01:14:49
month or every couple months but you know in a proper way like you know we'll
01:14:52
be in the family chat and kind of Bounce stuff but it feels the same with mine I
01:14:56
got a sister that lives like three K's away on point Chev and I can go for a
01:14:59
month without seeing it yeah but you know that the love is there um this might be a weird question this
01:15:04
might be me sort of projecting or imagining myself in your shoes was there a time there like when when your dad was
01:15:11
prime minister and you were getting all this hate that you were resentful that she was out of the country and you were
01:15:15
here taking the brunt of it no no I was kind of like did it was it then intentional move on her part by the way
01:15:21
like was she like I don't I want to bounce she managed to do like there were some
01:15:27
bits and pieces where media would like should do some raunchy art or whatever in Paris you know the paper would pick
01:15:32
that up but generally she was sort of out of it hey yeah I think yeah I don't
01:15:35
think she wanted to be involved yeah to be honest I was were you jealous of that at all like there must be times
01:15:41
where you're like man why didn't I no because I kind of felt like I was I almost felt like like
01:15:50
in a weird way I kind of liked when I copped the heat because I was like oh this dad's not getting it or like at
01:15:55
least I felt like I was helping them out it's so unhealthy though yeah such another healthy way to think that's
01:16:01
terrible yeah like I don't know I kind of I mean it's good and it's nice that
01:16:06
you're protective and stuff but yeah like I'm super protective of her yeah
01:16:09
but I mean it's hard because she's an older sister she moved away when I was
01:16:13
15. you know so I'm not like a protective older brother kind of yeah so I should look after
01:16:20
herself yeah but like I would never let people like speak all of her or you know
01:16:24
anything like I'm really protective of my family and so that was kind of the
01:16:27
thing like a bit of me was like well I'm copping the Heap anyway so at least if
01:16:30
I'm getting it like my mom's not and you know I was kind of like I am like super
01:16:35
protective over them so yeah so you've developed a real thick skin how's your
01:16:39
mum is she okay she's really good yeah yeah no she's awesome she she seems quite like quite private
01:16:44
like you never hear much about it no she she hates all that stuff yeah yeah so um which is cool I think Dad and I are
01:16:51
kind of more like show ponies um cheers we're gonna have to wrap this up shortly but we haven't even talked
01:16:57
about your business yet so you're a property developer now yeah so it's what's it called Stone Stonewood key
01:17:02
Stonewood key what does that mean um so I had a business called mtk capital yeah and so that was kind of just a
01:17:10
family business well not it was designed to be you know it was just dad and I and you know I was
01:17:16
kind of running it all and dad was putting some like seed capital on and originally when we started it was
01:17:22
like we had no staff no publicity no website we were just kind of like oh who's empty you know no one knew who we
01:17:28
were like the media had no idea and then we got to a point where I wanted to like scale things up not
01:17:34
out of the media sense but just wanted to do more stuff and so kind of like a few stories during covert
01:17:43
and a few chats and we ended up long story short was I thought part of me it'd be a good idea if we got him with a
01:17:50
group homebuilder and I was like yeah we might lose a bit of margin but I'm a
01:17:54
one-man band like in the company and you know we can get them to project managing
01:17:58
over to see everything so that led to discussions with the ciao brothers because Dad knew them through business
01:18:03
and through politics and you know so they own Stonewood homes which they bought out of receivership a
01:18:09
couple years ago the chill brothers were they the um the strip club guys yeah right right yeah and so I'm well aware
01:18:15
of their previous work yeah yeah and so we um yeah so originally what happened was we
01:18:25
were like oh that's still development together and see how it goes and then it
01:18:28
was like oh here's another site let's do this once you're there and so that
01:18:31
happened we ended up buying like quite a few sites together and then we're all
01:18:34
kind of sitting around and we went what if we like got other people's money and
01:18:37
raise money like to do this and so then we sat there and went well they have this really good product with Stonewood
01:18:42
and I know what I'm doing with development and dad and I have this really good brand and they don't have
01:18:47
the greatest personal brand but stonewood's a really great brand yeah why don't they have a person with a good
01:18:51
a good personal brand is it from the earth from the being the underworld strip club sort of yeah and I've seen
01:18:56
people like in New Zealand can be a bit not like racist but I think they go ah they're Chinese they're probably the
01:19:02
mafia and Triads or yeah you know like these dodgy strip club guy but they're
01:19:06
actually not they're actually just really hard-working grassroot businessmen and that's why I partner
01:19:10
with them you know I wouldn't put my name on something I didn't you know I
01:19:14
have massive respect for them and you know they they brought their family out of massive poverty and you cannot fault
01:19:20
their work ethic like those guys like I thought I was a hard worker they'd make
01:19:23
me look like an amateur and so um yeah so we ended up kind of starting the brand and so then what happened was
01:19:32
I started kind of posting my developments and because I wanted people to know that
01:19:37
you know because it was I got to this point where I'd like be going out people
01:19:40
like oh do you have a job yet I'd be like let you build like 30 homes you know
01:19:45
like I didn't care about that so much but I was like if I'm gonna start raising money from the public and that's
01:19:49
kind of to like full circle back to that post you said that I talked about at the start with
01:19:55
your reintegration to social media we said I regret some of the things I did on social media yeah and that's why I
01:20:00
posted that it was more so me being like you may or may not have thought whatever
01:20:05
you want to think about me when I was younger but here's a Line in the Sand and I was younger I did some things and
01:20:10
yeah I can get into like what you said all over under that stuff but I didn't
01:20:13
really feel the need to do that I feel like most people can work that out and so then it was kind of like that's the
01:20:18
Line in the Sand I'm new me now and that's why my social media is way more
01:20:22
corporate you know I don't post flashy things like I don't know although there
01:20:25
was a happy birthday Carousel to your mum the other day and there was a photo there and I thought he'd definitely put
01:20:30
that there because his rig looks good it's you and your mum and dad and you got you got the ABS out that was that
01:20:36
makes us thirst trapping part of it though is that it's actually my mum just
01:20:40
hates like photos yeah yeah so I actually don't have that that many photos of her well I've got them but
01:20:45
there's a lot where she's like I don't want you to post that whereas I
01:20:48
literally posted that one earlier sir yeah I kind of knew I could get away no that's cool but yeah I mean what I say
01:20:53
it's like no one's business I think the only thing the only thing that you did
01:20:56
wrong and this is something that was out of your control completely is you know growing up in the public eye yeah as a
01:21:01
consequence of your Dad's job which is um incredibly unfair yeah um but the business is going good
01:21:06
obviously it's been good the last few years but now we're at the part of the
01:21:09
like property cycle it's like you would have you'll know this more than me but
01:21:12
it's like very very predictable the property cycle so there's a period that
01:21:16
where anyone can make money and they were at the time now where like people sort of get exposed
01:21:21
yeah I mean it's like the old saying you never know who's swimming naked till the
01:21:23
tide goes out I've never heard that but that's a good one yeah um it's weird I mean it depends who you are
01:21:31
I think it's easy to make money in a down Market than it is in an upmarket because in an upmarket like it and this
01:21:38
is what really annoys me is for the last few years everyone's like almost been so
01:21:41
easy to make money but every site I bought for the last like three years and I think we bought 20.
01:21:47
every single one I walked out and I was like oh you paid more than what you wanted paid way too so you're talking
01:21:53
about buying like a a site that's got like a small house on and you bulldozed
01:21:56
the house and put like a few yeah they might build eight or ten or three or right but every single one night like
01:22:02
every single house I bought I was like oh God like you feel like you got [ __ ] over on the sale price I was like why
01:22:08
did I pay that much I would go and be like pay 1.3 and I'd pay one four because
01:22:12
you know like you'd buy something for 3.2 and then you'd be like oh God like
01:22:17
every single one and then yeah we're making like pretty good money the last few years and everyone was like oh that
01:22:22
must have been so easy but man materials were going nuts it was covered like I thought you were overpaying for
01:22:28
everything like and everyone goes oh it's real easy to see the down Market coming for the last two years I've been
01:22:33
like tracking it being like I'm not sure when and Dad kind of made me I won't give away all the Trade Secrets
01:22:40
but Dad made me sit there and go I want you to analyze every down Market that's
01:22:45
ever happened in New Zealand because he's like there's a trend he's like
01:22:48
you've got to find it so I literally went through all the data of like property things property crashes and I
01:22:55
found one thing that was consistent in every single one and I pretty much put it in
01:23:01
and I just tracked this one stat and the moment it hit like a figure I was like this is when it's going to turn and it
01:23:08
hit last November and from that day I didn't buy anything I sold everything like everything that was done I sold
01:23:14
anything that I had was doing pre-sales on I sold so we got out of everything pretty much at the top of the market and
01:23:21
then from that day it's only trended down but it's it's complicated because at the
01:23:25
same time I have 13 employees you know building 186 homes I have contractors so I've still done stuff since then because
01:23:34
you have to turn it over yeah but it's been different to the last few years where when you were making money
01:23:42
now we're just doing stuff just to survive for the next few years and then pick it back up yeah is this you for the
01:23:49
foreseeable future this is another Max Key phase bloody swimming and the softball and the
01:23:56
difference with all those things I think why I got eventually unmotivated with those things was I
01:24:02
didn't see the long-term goal with it same with baseball instead of reach your
01:24:05
Peak you mainly yeah well I'm not gonna be a pro baseball I don't even want to
01:24:08
be well I did when I was like young but I was like it's actually a really tough lifestyle like professional sports
01:24:13
ruthless like I have so much respect for guys actually do it it's tough I mean there's
01:24:17
always someone younger better you know if you go through a slump you might get [ __ ] that's a hell of a game I mean at
01:24:23
the time of recording this just yesterday Martin guptill who's been a black cat for the last 10 years he's
01:24:27
been axed for the summer series oh sure yeah yeah it's brutal and yeah you have
01:24:31
the coach on TV talking about why he's replaced you with someone younger yeah
01:24:34
and that's brutal and so I think with all those things I've just got to motivated with the sport because
01:24:40
you know maybe I hit my like physical potential or as I said there was only so much I could train or you
01:24:47
know for all those things whereas with this it's a bit different because I want to be on property for the next 40
01:24:53
years I'm not saying I'm going to build three bedroom townhouses for the next 40
01:24:57
years you know maybe I'll get into commercial property or maybe I'll do big
01:25:01
Lan subdivisions I have no idea what two years ago I was doing Villa Renovations
01:25:06
and I was like I'd never build a new build and now I'm doing 186 you know so
01:25:10
I I think it will keep Reinventing itself but I love the industry and you know I'm loving my company and
01:25:18
yeah definitely it's definitely something I'll be in for a very long time but how that looks in 10 years God
01:25:24
I have no idea who yeah who knows who knows who knows do you think the property prices will
01:25:30
keep sort of doubling for the next 10 years so if you're looking uh like past
01:25:34
history like the last 40 years or whatever they tend to sort of double in price more or less every 10 years yeah I
01:25:39
think they I feel like we can flip over one more time maybe two more times but then what do you think
01:25:44
so I think that's an interesting question that's kind of like the money question so for it to double every 10
01:25:49
years it's roughly like eight percent yeah so if you think about it every year by
01:25:56
that metric you're getting like eight percent rise in price so in say the last two years you've seen
01:26:01
30 or 50 or you know different areas of you know had different different prices but
01:26:08
my prediction on it you know and this is just my opinion I see in the next couple years I don't
01:26:15
necessarily see this big crash everyone's talking about but prices might not move for two years which with
01:26:20
interest rates and inflation you are your real value is going down technically like in a real money sense
01:26:25
you're losing money but in terms of actual house price I don't see you own a
01:26:30
1.7 million dollar house it's going to be worth 1.2 because this is a big thing
01:26:36
obviously that's ignoring that you can't pay your interest and you get like
01:26:41
mortgages selled and you have to sell because you have no money that because at that point at the Mark the moment the
01:26:47
Market's a liquid so yeah there will be people that will crater their house prices but that's not because the market
01:26:53
stuff that's because personal circumstance yeah my view on it is if you said to me right now say like this
01:26:59
apartment building room right now if you said how much would it cost you to rebuild this
01:27:04
well there's no way I could rebuild this right now for what the guy built it for
01:27:07
so why would he sell it any lower than the replacement value because from a building perspective you can't replace
01:27:14
it and so there's a point where okay prices might not go up and they should go down but what will happen eventually
01:27:21
is people will go well I don't want to buy this because I don't want to build a
01:27:24
new house because it's going to cost me like so much just too much and so what
01:27:29
happens yeah and so then the suppliers like myself we stopped building for a bit but then all that means is there's
01:27:35
no Supply but there's the demand will keep going so then that brings prices back up so I just don't see how I don't
01:27:41
see how prices could ever go down the only way I see prices actually ever moving is if material prices go down but
01:27:47
they're only ever going to keep going up there's no way that Timber halves in the
01:27:50
next five years no and of course even with yeah just in inflation inflation yeah it will just keep going and so in
01:27:58
my view all that will happen is Supply will fluctuate depending on the demand and at the moment you got this message
01:28:05
this equilibrium where the vendor's expectation you know are completely different to what they'll probably
01:28:09
actually sell it for and that's why nothing's moving but eventually then
01:28:13
what happens is you know you've seen William Scorpio from 800 to 500 homes you know we're reducing how many we're
01:28:18
doing everyone's no one's going to be going oh let's buy 50 sites right now so
01:28:23
Supply in 18 months will massively reduce and then what will happen is say that the market starts picking up
01:28:28
interest rates have kind of at least somewhat got more stable well from there it's
01:28:34
like you know at that point the market will you know demand slowly starts creeping up and then if there's
01:28:41
no Supply that brings price back up and that's what I see happening I just think
01:28:45
for the next couple years it might just be a bit more quiet yeah absolutely and um your price is going up now no one
01:28:51
actually loses or makes money until you sell do you well that was my point is if
01:28:54
you get like a hospital pass and you have to sell like say you get divorced and yeah lose your job lose your job or
01:29:00
you can't you know you over leverage yourself that's the whole swimming naked
01:29:03
thing and so that's where at the moment you're seeing these people they got
01:29:07
caught short you know say they're boring well think about you had a million dollar mortgage at say two percent and
01:29:13
you're you know that might have cost you 20 grand a year well if you have a household income of a
01:29:17
hundred you know it's pretty easy well that Mortgage in six months might be 80
01:29:21
grand a year yeah yeah those people go effects day yeah well how are they going to pay that and so then what happens is
01:29:27
they go I have to sell and this is the thing with property and this is what I always get into arguments with people
01:29:32
about they always go is my house going to be worthless I don't think the value
01:29:36
of your house ever changes in my eyes what I think changes is all that matters at the end of this what will someone pay
01:29:42
for it on the day and the Market's never wrong if you listed this house or this
01:29:46
apartment right now today whatever someone pays for it that's the market because on that day that's what people
01:29:51
are actually willing to pay for it and so in my eyes oh you sound like a real estate agent that's so annoying well
01:29:56
that's what the market tells us it's worth yeah but it's true though like you
01:29:59
can do all these spreadsheet exercise I mean I think it's worth 1.4 but at the
01:30:03
end of the day it's what will people on the day pay for it and so right now you've got so much Supply on the market
01:30:09
there's hundreds of homes everywhere and there's not that many buyers so they
01:30:13
have ample choice so if like if I had a hundred iPhones and I came to you and I went
01:30:18
I'll sell you this phone for a hundred bucks and I've got a hundred of them
01:30:22
well you're going to be in a rush to buy it no whereas if I go I'll give it to
01:30:26
you for 80 bucks you might go oh think about it that seems kind of good whereas if I come to you and I go this is the
01:30:31
last iphone in the country it's worth 100 bucks but I have 50 people outside
01:30:36
right now waiting to buy it and if you don't buy I'll sell it's one of them 110
01:30:40
well you'll you'll buy it yeah for sure and that's literally what's happened in
01:30:44
the property market last year there was no Supply you know I listed the house in
01:30:47
Mount Albert there were three homes in Mount Albert for sale at the time there were hundreds and hundreds of buyers you
01:30:52
had low interest rates cheap money everyone wanting to buy like a tangible asset prices went through the roof and
01:30:58
now you just have crazy amounts of Supply because everyone's going holy [ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage I want
01:31:03
to get out and so they're trying to sell and then now supply has gone through the
01:31:07
roof and then buyers sit there and go well I don't need to buy something that's
01:31:11
well priced I just I'll you know I'll get a deal and then eventually what happens is the
01:31:16
people start bleeding and they go holy [ __ ] I can't afford my mortgage maybe I just have to get out and then
01:31:22
the banks call and go well you ask 800 Grand so if you sell it for 801 you're
01:31:28
you're taking that and that's the whole thing where that's we real estate agents
01:31:32
get annoying but it's true it's that's the market yeah and if you went right
01:31:35
now I have to sell this apartment tomorrow well at that point the price is probably
01:31:40
much much it's like you own a car yeah it becomes like a fire sale situation doesn't it well it's all well
01:31:45
and good that it might be worth 100 Grand but that doesn't mean someone's
01:31:47
going to pay that yeah you know and then if it's like it's it's all about
01:31:51
liquidity if you need that money soon well you have to get someone to hit the bit and to do that you have to lower
01:31:57
your price and so that's why I think it's complicated I don't think house
01:32:00
prices decrease I just think the real value of what people are willing to pay decreases yeah but Adventures I said
01:32:06
then Supply will stop and then it flips and then it goes back up I can tell you're passionate about it yeah you're
01:32:12
into it hey yeah you love it yeah um we're gonna oh I haven't even asked you
01:32:16
what's your relationship like with running are you do you run at all has running ever been part of your life I'm
01:32:21
a terrible Runner if I'm being honest you've never done it for Fitness you
01:32:24
don't enjoy it I get really like I don't know what it is I know whether it's like
01:32:28
you're really tight shins when I run and so I've just you know how some people
01:32:33
like I'm sure like you like glide on their feet and it looks all Majestic I am like I'm like heavy ass like it's
01:32:41
just not something I'm I don't I was always a good swimmer but yeah running's
01:32:45
never been like I like sprinting and explosive stuff but the shorter the better well
01:32:50
I'd always I'd always go through this phases around but I'm gonna be a runner
01:32:53
like I'm gonna get into it and man my like I just would get this pain in my shins
01:32:58
I don't know what I I think I have I would sing say just run through it he would and I I did that
01:33:05
I couldn't like walk so I don't know I think I think I have something where my knees
01:33:12
hyperextend backwards or something and that does something to like my ankle and then that cause I don't
01:33:18
know what it but I think I could probably get shoes that because I had a friend that had
01:33:22
something similar and he got some like implant in a shoe and it like fully fixed it right well I'm glad I left the
01:33:27
ranch head to the end it was a bit of a dead end not a lot there and um our last
01:33:31
one has um how's your your um love life are you in a good place at the moment are you seeing anyone nah
01:33:37
very single yeah yeah and happy to be single yeah I mean do you thought you'd find it
01:33:41
hard to meet genuine people or is that something that plays on the back of your mind I used to sort them out fairly
01:33:45
quickly yeah I I used to find that I think now I roll in circles where like you know I meet the right people and you
01:33:52
know I'm not actually too worried about that um have you got like um because you seem
01:33:58
like a bit of a goal set on a planner like if you've got a figure in the back
01:34:00
of your mind like you by the time you're 30 you want to be with because your parents are quite Young
01:34:04
when they got together yeah they met when they were 15 and 17. right well yeah that's a great relationship too
01:34:10
like yeah a lot a lot of people that meet that young they just end up growing apart well that that's what I think my
01:34:15
sister and I find hard was we always had this preconceived idea that you know you
01:34:19
need to be with someone for 20 years and 50 years and you find the one well ideally that I think that's what
01:34:25
everyone sort of wants don't they yeah so I mean I don't know I half of me loves being single and half
01:34:32
of me kind of because you're a party boy yeah I love that you're that party boy
01:34:37
all up in there yeah I part of it's like I don't really have time like I found
01:34:41
I've been dating some people this year and like I probably you know I wasn't giving them enough
01:34:47
time and you know my mind would be on business and you know the Jujitsu or I feel like when I was younger I really
01:34:54
tried to make relationships work I would like I've always felt like it's
01:34:58
the one area of my life I haven't succeeded you know like I've always done
01:35:02
my own business I've always done my academically in sport but I've had shocking relationships yeah well I feel
01:35:08
like everything and everyone sort of comes into your into your life at the right time for the right reason yeah so
01:35:13
maybe you'll meet a person when you least expected who's just equally as
01:35:16
driven that also doesn't have that much time for a partner yeah well that's
01:35:20
where it's been hard as I've dated people that are very goal driven and similar and
01:35:25
you know sometimes that clashes and then I've dated people that are really chill
01:35:30
and the complete opposite of me and then you know that kind of I don't know like
01:35:35
yeah it's weird but I'm not when I was younger I used to hate being single
01:35:39
whereas now like I don't even go out or I'm not on dating apps or anything
01:35:45
but I'm kind of just like loving my life yeah did you find that was that a blessing or a curse to go on like dating
01:35:51
apps well half the time people would just think I was like a fake product oh okay yeah but I mean like I had success
01:35:57
on the like like I guess having the public profile helps but yeah there must have been a time they were your DMs were
01:36:02
crazy yeah but now like I just don't really elicit that kind of attention from people now
01:36:10
so I don't really notice it and I feel like social media has changed a lot I don't
01:36:14
know about your engagement but mine's like gone down a lot and oh on Instagram
01:36:17
yeah definitely yeah I've been sitting on the same same number for maybe six
01:36:21
months yeah no um I think like two three years I've kind of been you know and even like I find like my
01:36:27
engagement on like people don't reply to as much stuff or I just think the algorithms change yeah sure
01:36:32
um but yes I think I don't know I'm just at a point now where I'm really like I do
01:36:37
what I want and if someone wants to fit into there that's cool like but it's not
01:36:41
you're not tight with what I post I don't sit there and go oh like I wonder
01:36:45
if a chick thinks this is cool like I'm like I'm interested in this yeah follow
01:36:50
me like I'm gonna post it I believe that about you and I believe you're at a
01:36:55
point now in your life where you genuinely don't don't care too much about what other people think no um
01:36:59
because yeah I mean that tall poppy thing we talked before I feel like with you you're in a loser situation like you
01:37:04
set up your own business and people that hate you're going to be like oh yeah
01:37:07
well you're easy to do that when you yeah and then if the business fails everyone's like oh he'll be fine he's
01:37:13
got his dad yeah you know so it's like you're damned if you do damned if you
01:37:16
don't well that's why you you're genuinely not bothered by that now oh
01:37:20
not that stuff I mean if I failed a business I'd be more gutted that my business failed than that son you know
01:37:26
like the embarrassment Factor yeah I don't care about that and what we got it
01:37:28
I probably lost money at that point yeah you know but now I just think you got to do
01:37:34
whatever you want in life you know like I know some guy wants to sit at home and
01:37:39
mock what I do or I'm living my life and he's watching mine so I'd rather to me failure is not
01:37:45
something I would like care about I think I think failure is something that um I think the whole world would be
01:37:52
a better place if people were less afraid of it and more into embracing it I'm sorry you learned the most yeah I'm
01:37:57
so grateful for all my biggest failures yeah I know that's like super cliche but
01:38:01
I mean like driving to that Jiu Jitsu room for the very first time like you you knew you were you were heading
01:38:07
towards a fail I felt like such an idiot yeah and I was sitting there I'd never
01:38:10
watched Jiu Jitsu like it's not a great spectator sport because you know it's
01:38:13
very technical and if you don't like I love it now but it's still not great
01:38:17
like if you ask my parents oh watch they'll be like no idea just rolling around with this blue bathroom
01:38:26
there's a saying I really like I saw this on Instagram it's called the 1840
01:38:30
60 Rule and it's 18. everyone worries about what everyone else thinks about them at 40 people stop worrying about
01:38:36
what people think about them and just do what they want then at 60 you realize no
01:38:40
one was thinking about you at all your room was just busy thinking about what everyone else was thinking about them
01:38:44
well that's actually what I realized I think when I was traveling was I got to this point where the first like
01:38:50
month I was like to all my friends at every download oh my God I'm here oh my
01:38:54
God like and I was like chatting my parents and like because it was so exciting and then it got to a point
01:38:59
where like my parents stopped replying to me you know like they might reply like a day later or like kind of ignore
01:39:03
what I'd said yeah and I kind of got to this point I was sitting I was like holy [ __ ] like my own parents don't
01:39:10
really that bored of your travels yeah and I'm like so why would some guy I've
01:39:14
never met him possibly give a [ __ ] and that's literally what got me to the
01:39:18
point I was like why like I'm like why do I care about social media because back then I was just doing it
01:39:23
not for like attention but it was kind of just for validation whereas now with social media like people go oh he's back
01:39:29
on it blah blah blah blah but it like directly impacts my sales you know if I can get brand exposure now I make money
01:39:36
my business does a bit of like there is like a a very direct link and my whole plan all along was always to build a
01:39:44
brand and build like a profile and then I had options you know for the rest of my life I can
01:39:49
do exactly what I've done now and Dad actually it was really funny because I'm
01:39:53
running kind of social media and sales and marketing for our company obviously still involved and all the other stuff
01:39:58
but that's kind of where I that's the team I look after and Dad she sat me
01:40:02
down the other day because he always used to have got me for social media like he'd always be like why are you
01:40:06
doing this you're so obsessed with this or but I was again obsessed with like the
01:40:10
analytics of it or not they're like oh my God I got a light to me a like was
01:40:14
business and yeah and he was like isn't this funny he's like I used to give you
01:40:18
so much [ __ ] about this it makes you so mad at you and he's like now you're like
01:40:22
such a wizard like you just understand it all like you kind of know how to get people hyped and yeah he was probably
01:40:28
mad at you though like a particular parent sort of thing because he knew about the negative consequences yeah
01:40:32
totally and he was he didn't see the value in it whereas now I always sat there and went this is going to be the
01:40:37
tool we use but even in saying that I feel like social media is dying you know I feel like stuff like this is like
01:40:42
blowing up you know like podcasts and yeah that long form conversation yeah and by the way thanks for coming on
01:40:48
today because I've um I I have have you have you been on a podcast before is
01:40:53
this your first one I don't think so I did I remember I did a thing with Aziz Aziz
01:40:59
on like mental health right and that was like quite a long I've done like interviews I guess yeah
01:41:06
um like I did one with Samantha Hayes which was quite like a long form conversation you know it was like an
01:41:12
hour or so but no I've never I don't think I've ever done like a podcast
01:41:14
podcast yeah well I appreciate you being here today I appreciate you being so open and I can honestly say hand on
01:41:20
heart like all the times I've met you over the years from the age of what 14
01:41:23
13 yeah to now like you've never been um anything but you know kind and nice and
01:41:28
just a good person so thank you for that yeah cheers it was cool I appreciate it
01:41:32
thanks Max Key [Music] thank you