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welcome to the best interest podcast
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where we believe Benjamin Franklin's
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advice that an investment in knowledge
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pays the best interest both in finances
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and in your life every episode teaches
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you personal finance and investing in
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simple terms now here's your host Jesse
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Kramer hello everybody and welcome to
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episode 58 of the best interest podcast
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my name is Jesse pramer today we're
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starting the episode actually by
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alluding to a different podcast this one
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is by a man named Malcolm Gladwell you
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might have heard of him he's a pretty
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famous author his podcast is called
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revisionist history I was recently
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listening to an episode of his podcast
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and I learned about something called the
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Minnesota starvation experiment Malcolm
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Gladwell calls his podcast episode the
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department of physical hygiene I'll
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include a link in the show notes and yes
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it's all about something called the
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Minnesota starvation experiment right
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around world War II I actually think it
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was during World War II there were a
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group of young men who for one reason or
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another couldn't fight in the war they
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wanted to participate in some other way
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and a very famous scientist named anel
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Keys convinced them to participate in
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this experiment where for about 3 months
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the men had their diets and exercise
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slightly adjusted so that they would hit
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some sort of they call it like a
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balanced weight so the men who were
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maybe a little overweight were
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encouraged to lose a few pounds The Men
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Who were a little underweight were
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encouraged to gain a few pounds until
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they kind of hit this median normal
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weight for their height and then
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commenced a starvation period for 6
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months these men were fed what is called
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a starvation diet barely enough calories
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to survive the goal of the experiment
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was for over the six-month period for
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the men to lose 25% of their weight so
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for someone who's maybe 6 feet tall and
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weighs 190 PB the goal of the experiment
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was for that man to lose 47 lb and drop
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down to a weight of
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143 from 190 to 143 in 6 months now the
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long-term goal of the study was to help
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people all over the world who are
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dealing with some sort of starvation to
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understand how to prevent starvation in
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the first place to understand how to
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best cure starvation what nutrients are
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most important how the body reacts to a
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reg diet again how to best put on weight
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what organs are most damaged by
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starvation and what organs need to be
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carefully looked at when reintroducing
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nutrients to the body all that sort of
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thing now that experiment probably
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couldn't take place today it's just a
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bit too gruesome and a bit too painful
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to starve someone for 6 months to get
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them to the point where the real study
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could begin one of the things in the
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podcast that most caught my eye and
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caught my mind's attention is how the
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men in the experiment how their mental
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States changed one of the biggest ones
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for example many of the men developed
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food Obsession during their starvation
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period it's all they could think about
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they really didn't think about
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interpersonal relationships they didn't
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care too much for the kind of things
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that we occupy our normal days with they
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would just think about food during the
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experiment the men had to walk in pairs
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around the city of Minnesota they had to
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walk 22 miles a week as part of the
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exercise to help them lose the weight
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during the starvation period and they'd
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often walk to restaurants or diners and
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simply sit there and watch people eat
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that was part of their entertainment or
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at the very least that's what their
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brains wanted them to do was to watch
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people eat some of the men started
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collecting cookbooks during the
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experiment and interestingly some of the
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men never stopped collecting cookbooks
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they had this food Obsession for the
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rest of their lives quick sidebar
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listening to Malcolm gladwell's episode
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I thought of my dog Sadie who we got as
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a starving and nursing mother dog she
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was found on the streets of Houston
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severely malnourished and she's now a
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perfectly healthy dog she is also the
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most food motivated dog I've ever met
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she has an obsession with food she likes
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to watch me eat dinner she you know any
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little hint that she might be getting
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fed she gets excited for not every dog
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does that but a dog who starved on the
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streets develops that kind of food
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Obsession and similarly as we learned in
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this podcast people who are starved
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develop that food Obsession too and for
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some of them it never leaves towards the
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end of the podcast episode one audio
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clip in particular really struck a chord
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with me it was some testimony given
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later in life by one of the studies
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participants and and this was from a man
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who according to testimony from the many
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participants in the study this one man
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was someone that the rest of the
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participants looked up to they saw him
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as as Noble they saw him as righteous he
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was well educated he was well put
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together they saw him as as a person
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worth emulating but I want you to listen
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to this man's testimony right now or you
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could put it in another way his
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confession to how his mindset and how
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his brain chemistry changed over the
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course of the study I'll tell you a a a
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nasty moment I was walking along and I
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obviously had a buddy but I don't know
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who it
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was and um it
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was deep into the semi
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starvation and
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um we were tired when they crossed the
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street they didn't have the energy to
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take the half step up onto the sidewalk
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we were tired uh and and weak and so we
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were
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standing at a corner waiting for a light
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or something and a kid came along on a
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bicycle and he was really moving pumping
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away and
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going I said wonder where he's going and
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then I said said to myself I know where
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he's going he's going home for
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supper and I'm
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not and then for a very brief I hope it
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was brief
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moment I suddenly hated that that
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boy and that
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I hate at this point to tell you this
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because
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uh it doesn't speak very well for me um
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but I I remembered it with I guess
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horor
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that that I
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could feel such a thing so utterly
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irrational but but there it was and uh
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you ask an experience that I remember I
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sure remember
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that is there anything that we haven't
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talked about or that I should have asked
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you or you'd like to to add that seems
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relevant you should have asked me why
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I'm missing fingers on my left hand
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okay I keep saying to myself that this
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was because I
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um was so weak and I was chopping wood
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and I got
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the um axe caught up in the TR
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and I didn't have a a rapid enough
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reaction time to pull my hand away so I
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removed some
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fingers he was at the house of two
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elderly ladies in Minneapolis who had
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befriended some of the subjects leg and
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his buddy would go and watch the women
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eat then go outside to split wood to
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steal themselves against the temptation
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to take any of the women's food I
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recognize that a human being can go
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through a period of mental illness
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I think I was mentally ill was I
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mentally ill at the time that I removed
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the
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fingers I don't know I like to think
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that I wasn't I like to think it was an
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accident I'm not going to sit here and
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categorically say that I didn't do it on
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purpose severe trauma severe anxiety
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severe pain mental pain or physical pain
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these can make us think in a rational
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ways clearly this guy who's been
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starving for months and then sees a
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strong young boy riding a bicycle he
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thinks irrationally in this moment when
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he wants to reach out when he wants to
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harm the boy when he feels like he hates
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that boy that's an irrational thought
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and now he's giving a confession as an
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old man he feels guilty for it I don't
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think he should because he he realizes
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that it was an irrational thought and
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it's interesting a little bit scary to
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think that you and I and everyone we
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know we have that side of our brain we
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might not like to admit it but it's
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there that you or I or any other human
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we know when we're put in dire scenarios
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we think differently we act differently
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we know what's not rational or at least
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in hindsight we know it's not rational
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but in the moment it feels like that's
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the right thing to do and that right
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there is a powerful investing
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lesson
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so let's switch gears Let's Travel to
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Johnsonburg Johnsonburg is a quiet town
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in the alagan National Forest that's in
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Northwest Pennsylvania here in the USA
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now Johnsonburg is best known at least
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regionally for their Lumber industry and
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the the associated paper mill that's in
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the town of Johnsonburg but Johnsonburg
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made national news in the spring of 2022
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for a very different and somewhat
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disturbing reason there was uh a
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recently constructed iway bypass in
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Johnsonburg and now a bypass is a a
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bridge that's built above or around
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usually some combination of both built
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above or around a village or town you've
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probably driven over thousands of
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bypasses in your life even if you didn't
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know it it's a highway bridge over a
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residential area the bypass in
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Johnsonburg made national news because
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dozens of deer were leaping off of the
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bypass not all at the same time but over
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the course of days and weeks they were
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leaping off the bypass and dropping to
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their death onto populated parts of the
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town so these deer they walk out onto
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the miles long bypass but they aren't
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quite smart enough unfortunately to find
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their way back off the bypass and
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eventually they get spooked perhaps by
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traffic or perhaps by some Panic from
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their predicament they're stuck out
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there and a certain survival mechanism
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kicks in the deer they think well I can
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either stay trapped on this bypass and
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surely die or maybe I can jump and maybe
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I'll survive it's easy for us big
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brained humans to say well how about a
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third option where you just walk off the
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bypass but deer aren't equipped to
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understand traffic patterns or Bridge
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construction or probability theory in
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there plight In Their Fear they rely on
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Instinct and the only sliver of survival
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they think will come from jumping even
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though it's clearly a self-destructive
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Behavior so when zoomed out of course
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it's stupid when zoomed in at least into
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the deer's brain it appears like it's
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the rational thing to do and so the deer
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jump so let's keep that story in mind a
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reader on my blog on the best interest
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his name was Phil maybe he was from
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patani Pennsylvania he wrote in and he
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said Jesse I don't understand why you
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hold any Bonds in your portfolio to be
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honest with you I don't know why anyone
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holds bonds so can you please explain
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the problem with a 100% stock portfolio
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it's a great question Phil you're not
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the first to ask you won't be the last
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to ask we know that over time stocks
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outperform bonds so why hold any bonds
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at all and I'll start by saying that
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some people do recommend 100% stock port
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folios their rationale is pretty simple
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a 100% stock portfolio has always
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outperformed any portfolio with bonds as
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long as you zoom out to a long enough
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time span but the key word there is over
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the long run as long as you zoom out
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long enough all stocks make sense so if
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you're young enough to invest your money
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and you know pull a rip vanwinkle go to
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sleep for 30 years investing in 100%
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stocks might be the right allocation for
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you some people are fine with a
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multi-decade hibernation of kind of
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avoiding their account statements and
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and not getting spooked by the concept
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of losing money or the prospect of
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losing money but most people don't live
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in that world an important question to
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ask in portfolio construction is what is
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your risk tolerance or in plain English
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how much money can you lose before you
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get nauseous we each have a unique
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answer to that question and more
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importantly our answer in theory might
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be different than our answers in
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practice so I'm going to say that again
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because it's pretty important your risk
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tolerance in theory might be different
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than your risk tolerance in
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practice take Sally for example Sally
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believes in theory based on paper based
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on what she's heard she thinks she can
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stomach a 20% loss to her portfolio
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before feeling even a hint of stress she
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knows that the market has dropped before
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she knows that bare markets happen and
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she's aware of the fact fact that a 20%
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drop in her portfolio is not only a
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probability it's almost an inevitability
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over the course of her investing career
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20% no worries once 30% down she'd
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probably lose some sleep and if she ever
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got 40% down off her all-time high she'd
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begin to fight that urge to panic and to
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sell completely so something near a 7030
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portfolio is a good starting point for
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sality that's 70% stocks and 30% bonds
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the reason why is because we can just
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look back at history and say how has a
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7030 portfolio performed over time 7030
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portfolio's worst full year occurred in
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1931 that's during the Great Depression
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and it suffered a 31% loss that year the
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100% stock portfolio that the question
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asker Phil is interested in that
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suffered a 43% loss in
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1931 and actually up to an 89% Peak to
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trough draw down so again 43% that was
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over the course of a full year when
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there was some time to recover but the
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actual High to the low the peak to the
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trough of a 100% stock portfolio was 89%
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that occurred in
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1929 now in order to reduce the
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volatility in Sally's portfolio we add
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bonds to the stocks or some other
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lowrisk asset maybe cash could work too
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now that ballasts out Sally's portfolio
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to meet her specific risk tolerance it's
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still possible that she'll lose money in
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a 7030 portfolio but not as much as she
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would in a 100% stock portfolio now in
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theory that 7030 portfolio for Sally
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makes sense but what if she finds
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herself in a year like 2022 and at one
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point during the year her 7030 portfolio
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was down 20% not the 30% that she
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thought would make her Panic only 20%
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but what if she actually starts
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panicking at 20% down you know Warren
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Buffett said only when the tide goes out
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do you discover who who's been swimming
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naked that's one of his most famous
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quotes the tide going out of course is a
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metaphor for the market dropping and
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swimming naked is a metaphor for someone
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being unprepared for that eventuality to
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happen only in Market downturns does
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theory get put to the test can you
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stomach what you said you could stomach
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can Sally stomach what she thought she
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could stomach she might only be down 20%
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in a year like 2022 but she could be
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freaking out and what do we do how do we
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help well if we need to hopefully we can
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educate her and then if needed
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reallocate her assets we need to learn
00:16:37
about Sally why is she freaking out can
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we teach her enough about the long-term
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trends of the stock market to help her
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feel at ease that's actually a really
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good place to start we could remind
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Sally that if she zooms out enough
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here's what a 7030 portfolio does over
00:16:53
fiveyear time spans over 10 year over 20
00:16:55
year time spans yes this one year is a
00:16:58
bit chaotic and a bit painful but it was
00:17:01
one of the possibilities that we knew
00:17:03
about when we began investing in a 7030
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portfolio if you stick with it here's
00:17:09
where you'll end up in the long run we
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can educate Sally and oftentimes
00:17:13
education makes investors feel a lot
00:17:15
better about where they stand if the
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education doesn't really work if it
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doesn't sink in and if Sally says yeah I
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hear the words you're saying I still
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can't handle it well then we might need
00:17:26
to reallocate Sally's assets maybe 7030
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wasn't right for her in the first place
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and she needs to be in something more
00:17:33
like a 60/40 or 50/50 portfolio maybe
00:17:35
she needs to diversify even further into
00:17:38
alternative assets or something like
00:17:39
that simply to kind of detangle and
00:17:43
uncorrelated the Assets in her portfolio
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even more no matter what we need to
00:17:48
avoid a situation avoid a scenario where
00:17:51
Sally sells completely there's this
00:17:54
quote that lots of investors use they
00:17:56
say the only people who get get hurt on
00:17:58
the roller coaster are those who jump
00:18:02
off now this quote begs the question
00:18:04
just how scary is a roller coaster that
00:18:06
impels someone into jumping off of it
00:18:09
and more importantly though how do we
00:18:11
reduce that scariness how can we prevent
00:18:13
people from jumping off their portfolios
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how do we preempt the survival mechanism
00:18:19
that says if I don't sell right now I
00:18:22
might never get another chance this
00:18:24
portfolio is headed to zero and I am
00:18:26
jumping off of the ship before it goes
00:18:28
there
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mammal brains are similar to one another
00:18:32
we share the same amydala that controls
00:18:34
our fight or flight response the same
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impulse that pushes say a deer to jump
00:18:39
from a bypass it also pushes Sally to
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panic sell her
00:18:44
portfolio Sally sells out of fear not
00:18:47
stupidity that fear is a survival
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mechanism fear's goal much like Pain's
00:18:52
goal is to motivate us into an action
00:18:54
that remedies the fear if you're scared
00:18:57
well you run or you fight if you touch a
00:19:00
hot stove you reflexively pull your hand
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away to intentionally endure such pain
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it does seem inhuman requiring some
00:19:08
level of mental fortitude to bypass the
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very brain circuitry that makes us alive
00:19:14
in the first place in that context Sally
00:19:17
selling her portfolio or a deer jumping
00:19:20
off of a bypass it seems kind of
00:19:22
rational is it also nearsighted and
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myopic of course it is it's easy for us
00:19:27
to see that shortsightedness on the
00:19:29
outside looking in but it doesn't feel
00:19:32
myopic for Sally In the Heat of the
00:19:34
Moment or for those dear they say it's
00:19:37
hard to see the picture when you're
00:19:38
standing inside the frame when your
00:19:40
portfolio is down 20% you are standing
00:19:43
inside that frame it's hard to see the
00:19:45
full picture similarly for the deer they
00:19:48
just see the frame of them stuck on a
00:19:51
bypass Big Friend of the best interest
00:19:54
Howard Marx who's a very famous investor
00:19:56
he has his own appropriate quote quote
00:19:58
on the topic Howard says we have to
00:20:01
practice defensive investing since many
00:20:03
of the outcomes are likely to go against
00:20:05
us it's more important to ensure
00:20:08
survival under negative outcomes than it
00:20:10
is to guarantee maximum returns under
00:20:13
favorable
00:20:14
ones it's more important to ensure
00:20:17
survival under negative outcomes than it
00:20:20
is to guarantee maximum returns under
00:20:22
favorable ones while Marx is referring
00:20:25
to avoiding too much risk we can also
00:20:28
applied his idea to avoiding
00:20:30
self-destructive behaviors for a deer to
00:20:32
avoid self-destruction we'd say don't
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walk out on a bypass in the first place
00:20:37
if only they'd listen to us and to Sally
00:20:40
or to any other investor we'd say don't
00:20:42
take on so much risk that you'll Panic
00:20:44
sell when markets aren't Cooperative
00:20:47
history tells us time and again that the
00:20:49
survival Instinct to panic sell is a
00:20:52
self-destructive instinct when zoomed
00:20:54
out Panic selling is stupid of course it
00:20:57
is just look at the market history why
00:20:59
would you ever sell knowing that we'd
00:21:01
get to where we are today but when you
00:21:03
zoom in in that moment when the markets
00:21:05
have dropped 30% off their all-time high
00:21:08
and you don't know what the future holds
00:21:10
selling Panic selling it might feel
00:21:13
rational in that moment we'd all do
00:21:16
better to remind ourselves that humans
00:21:18
are frequently irrational and because
00:21:21
humans are frequently irrational it begs
00:21:23
the question not if Sally will Panic
00:21:26
cell but when Sally will Panic sell and
00:21:30
that brings us back to Phil's original
00:21:32
question that brings us back to bonds or
00:21:34
to any other lower risk asset class the
00:21:37
rationale for holding bonds or for
00:21:39
holding cash for alternatives for
00:21:42
diversification the rationale for these
00:21:44
non-stock asset classes is to prevent
00:21:47
self-destructive Panic selling it's one
00:21:50
thing to admonish investors and say
00:21:52
don't be stupid don't sell your stocks
00:21:53
the market will eventually recover but
00:21:56
good luck looking a panicked investor in
00:21:58
the eye and accusing them of stupidity
00:22:00
for selling your accusation simply won't
00:22:03
work their amydala the most irrational
00:22:06
part of their brain is in control in
00:22:07
that moment and it's begging them to
00:22:10
pull their hand off the stove can you
00:22:12
blame them for listening our best and
00:22:15
only option as investors is to prevent
00:22:17
panic in the first place some pain is
00:22:20
okay but Panic is not they say the true
00:22:24
cost of long-term investing is a
00:22:26
psychological cost because you need to
00:22:29
endure some pain but you need to prevent
00:22:31
that Panic you need to build a portfolio
00:22:34
that meets your goals in the good times
00:22:37
but won't mentally break you in the bad
00:22:40
times I must not
00:22:43
fear fear is the mind
00:22:46
killer fear is The Little Death that
00:22:49
brings total
00:22:51
obliteration I will face my
00:22:53
fear I will permit him to pass over me
00:22:56
and through me
00:22:59
and when it has gone past I will turn
00:23:01
the inner eye to see its
00:23:04
path where the fear has gone there will
00:23:07
be
00:23:08
nothing only I will
00:23:13
remain some of you might recognize that
00:23:16
Morgan Freeman impression as the litany
00:23:19
against fear from the famous book and
00:23:22
now movie
00:23:23
Dune while perhaps a bit dramatic for a
00:23:26
personal finance podcast it is actually
00:23:28
a pretty interesting quote fear is the
00:23:30
mind killer fear really does mess with
00:23:33
our brains and another part of that
00:23:36
quote is once the fear is pass me I will
00:23:39
look at its path and only I will remain
00:23:42
and similarly if you let a market Panic
00:23:45
or a bare Market or a market crash when
00:23:48
those bad times have gone passed you can
00:23:50
turn your eye to your Vanguard your
00:23:51
Fidelity your Schwab accounts and only
00:23:54
you and your portfolio fully intact will
00:24:01
remain changing gears a little bit here
00:24:04
now some of you know that by day I work
00:24:07
for a fiduciary Financial Planning and
00:24:10
wealth management firm in Rochester you
00:24:12
know we we help people we help
00:24:14
individuals we help families plan their
00:24:16
financial Futures and explaining that
00:24:20
previous concept is extremely important
00:24:23
explaining how we design portfolios to
00:24:26
ensure that they can
00:24:28
stuck with for the long run to explain
00:24:31
why we diversify in order to keep risk
00:24:33
lower that's a really important part of
00:24:36
the job and sometimes what that means is
00:24:39
that there are big headlines in the news
00:24:42
that we're worried about things like
00:24:44
debt ceilings or interest rate hikes and
00:24:46
all that kind of stuff and as investment
00:24:50
managers we have to decide whether to
00:24:52
take action or not in the portfolio and
00:24:56
often times because of the work done
00:24:58
beforehand because of the
00:25:00
diversification present the correct
00:25:02
answer the rational answer is we're not
00:25:05
going to do anything right now we
00:25:07
designed the portfolio for this it's
00:25:10
meant to withstand this and it will
00:25:12
withstand this and once we get one or
00:25:15
two or 5 years out from now we're going
00:25:18
to look back on this time and realize
00:25:20
that doing nothing was the right thing
00:25:22
to do now one quote that I I recently
00:25:25
heard and I'm adopting it myself because
00:25:27
I think it's a terrific quote to explain
00:25:30
that though is that inaction is not the
00:25:34
same as
00:25:35
inactivity by choosing not to act from
00:25:39
an investment point of view by choosing
00:25:41
not to make any changes that's not the
00:25:43
same as sitting idly twiddling your
00:25:46
thumbs doing nothing at all you know
00:25:49
humans like all creatures great and
00:25:52
small we're biased towards action it's
00:25:54
so ingrained in Us in fact that
00:25:56
occasionally our brain brains override
00:25:58
conscious thought and and force us to
00:26:00
act we talked about that before with the
00:26:02
stove when you touch a hot stove your
00:26:05
brain instinctively and impulsively
00:26:07
screams out to you act right now remove
00:26:10
yourself from the source of that pain it
00:26:13
doesn't even really it's just
00:26:14
instantaneous it's not even screaming at
00:26:16
you you don't have a choice impulse
00:26:18
takes over and you act now that same
00:26:21
bias that helps us survive run from the
00:26:24
tiger block that projectile that's
00:26:26
heading towards your face
00:26:28
that instinct that bias it is purely
00:26:30
harmful to the long-term investor as an
00:26:34
investor in action in action is your
00:26:37
friend but it's important paradoxically
00:26:40
that we differentiate in action from
00:26:43
inactivity now John Bogel the founder of
00:26:46
Vanguard he famously quipped the the
00:26:48
rule for the investor should be all
00:26:51
think about and in effect the financial
00:26:53
system has built on this and when
00:26:55
something monstrous happens big noisy uh
00:26:59
affects the market greatly on a very
00:27:01
shortterm basis the answer is don't just
00:27:03
stand there do something but the real
00:27:06
answer is don't do something just stand
00:27:08
there or don't get captivated by the
00:27:11
emotions of the moment you heard him
00:27:13
right don't do something don't bias
00:27:16
yourself towards action just stand there
00:27:19
actively choose not to act to understand
00:27:23
why we simply have to consult historical
00:27:25
precedent first why might an investor
00:27:28
want to take drastic action we know that
00:27:30
by now to avoid pain and what's the
00:27:32
cause of that pain well of course it's a
00:27:34
downward bare Market where we see our
00:27:36
account values dropping by 10 or 20 or
00:27:39
30% or more and our brains instinctively
00:27:42
think do something avoid that pain
00:27:44
you're exposing yourself to the painful
00:27:46
stock market so stop that sell your
00:27:49
investments before the pain gets worse
00:27:52
that's the normal human response
00:27:54
identify the cause of the pain and reel
00:27:55
back from it but stock Market history
00:27:58
shows us how harmful that behavior is to
00:28:00
your long-term portfolio performance
00:28:03
selling because of losses it serves to
00:28:05
lock in those losses that's bad and then
00:28:08
you like the rest of us humans won't
00:28:11
have the gumption to buy back into the
00:28:13
market to participate in its eventual
00:28:15
recovery in the eventual
00:28:18
rally action during a bare Market is an
00:28:21
investors's enemy inaction is our friend
00:28:25
but inaction isn't the same as
00:28:27
inactivity it takes conscious effort to
00:28:30
choose in action it takes conscious
00:28:33
effort to rebalance your portfolio
00:28:35
maintaining a predetermined asset
00:28:37
allocation even during turbulent markets
00:28:40
it's boring and simple but you have to
00:28:42
do it you need to actively choose to
00:28:44
keep your cool The Secret of great
00:28:46
investing is temperament it's hard to
00:28:48
stay calm during a bare Market our
00:28:50
brains want the Panic we want to sell to
00:28:53
survive we want to jump off that bridge
00:28:55
like the deer you need to actively
00:28:57
choose not to it's a bit like meditation
00:29:01
you're choosing when you meditate to sit
00:29:03
there and do nothing you are
00:29:06
paradoxically actively choosing in
00:29:08
action the metaphor gets even better
00:29:10
though because as anyone who's ever
00:29:12
meditated will tell you meditation is
00:29:14
hard it's really challenging to quiet
00:29:17
your brain and be still after all we're
00:29:19
all biologically wired for Action we're
00:29:22
wired to think to worry to plan
00:29:25
everything except to sit and be still
00:29:29
investors choosing in action it works
00:29:31
exactly the same way we must quiet that
00:29:34
worried voice in our heads my retirement
00:29:37
account just drop by how much we need to
00:29:39
quiet that voice we need to choose to
00:29:41
wait out the markets storm calm Waters
00:29:44
do await us if only we wait for them day
00:29:48
after day we must choose to wait to stay
00:29:51
calm to be patient don't do something
00:29:54
just sit there but don't confuse use
00:29:57
that in action with
00:30:00
[Music]
00:30:02
inactivity thanks for tuning in to this
00:30:04
episode of the bestest podcast if you
00:30:07
have a question for Jesse to answer on a
00:30:09
future episode send him an email at
00:30:11
Jesse bestin interest. blog again that's
00:30:15
Jesse at bestter interest. blog did you
00:30:18
enjoy the show subscribe rate and review
00:30:20
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00:30:23
helps others find the show and invest in
00:30:25
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00:30:28
it we'll catch you on the next episode
00:30:29
of the best interest
00:30:31
[Music]
00:30:34
podcast the best interest podcast is a
00:30:36
personal podcast meant for education and
00:30:38
entertainment it should not be taken as
00:30:41
Financial advice and is not prescriptive
00:30:43
of your financial
00:30:45
situation
