00:00:00
I'm glad they got these pictures of this
00:00:01
guy. At the same time, this is an edge
00:00:04
case. They're they're keeping your video
00:00:06
that which I which everyone thought they
00:00:08
were doing and they said they weren't.
00:00:16
>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:18
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:19
Network. I'm Cara Swisser.
00:00:21
>> And I'm Scott Galloway.
00:00:22
>> Scott, we just did a great on with Cara
00:00:25
Swisser about resist and unsubscribe,
00:00:27
but I'd like
00:00:28
>> you have another podcast. Did I find
00:00:29
that out? This
00:00:30
>> dude, you were quite substantive. Where
00:00:32
are we right now? Give us a quick
00:00:33
update.
00:00:34
>> Uh, it lulled Tuesday and Wednesday. It
00:00:36
appears to have come back today because
00:00:38
Chelsea Handler, who reached out to me,
00:00:41
posted something of all the things she
00:00:43
was unsubscribing to. And just to give
00:00:44
you an example of how much impact one
00:00:46
person can have. Uh, I went on AI, I
00:00:50
went on to my site analytics. I think
00:00:51
she just that one video she did on
00:00:54
Instagram, that one post is going to
00:00:55
inspire 6 to 7,000 unique site visits.
00:00:58
conversion of 5% that's 300 people
00:01:01
unsubscribing average of two platforms
00:01:04
600 unsubscribes average 200 that's
00:01:06
$12,000
00:01:08
times or excuse me $120,000 times 10 so
00:01:12
$1.2 $2 million in market cap getting
00:01:15
taken out of these companies because of
00:01:16
one Insta Post. So,
00:01:17
>> Right. Exactly. And, you know, I'm going
00:01:19
to see her uh tomorrow night, I think.
00:01:22
Um, tomorrow night. She's here in DC. We
00:01:24
should get them all to do things like
00:01:26
that. Let's let's reach into the celebs,
00:01:28
we know, and get them to do.
00:01:30
>> I'm going to bug them all.
00:01:32
>> Okay.
00:01:32
>> I like it. Thank you.
00:01:33
>> Yeah. If they do that and put even just
00:01:35
one thing up, it matters and it's an
00:01:37
easy thing for a lot of them. And they
00:01:39
>> what people don't realize about about
00:01:40
economic protests, the most famous one
00:01:42
was a Montgomery bus strike. It wasn't
00:01:44
the one cinematic moment. It was it was
00:01:46
um an organization of thousands of car
00:01:49
pools over the course of a year.
00:01:50
>> Yeah.
00:01:51
>> So it takes it takes a while, but
00:01:54
>> any individual who subs unsubscribes
00:01:56
from Open AI OpenAI right now is taking
00:01:58
$10,000 out of their market valuation,
00:02:01
>> which is great. And that
00:02:02
>> and there's a substitute, the free the
00:02:04
free chat GBT
00:02:05
>> and also all kinds of other free
00:02:07
services. Gemini, all the others, you
00:02:09
don't have to pay for it necessarily.
00:02:11
And by the way, you can use things for
00:02:13
free. You're taking stuff from them,
00:02:15
right, without paying them. Like paying
00:02:17
is the issue is what you pay for. So
00:02:19
just keep that in mind. Everyone's like,
00:02:20
"Oh, now I can't use Google." I'm like,
00:02:22
"No, it's free."
00:02:24
>> Well, just just to give an example how
00:02:25
how these this unsubscribes to these
00:02:27
recurring revenue tech platforms or tech
00:02:30
companies, T-Mobile just had an earnings
00:02:33
call. They were projected to add 992,000
00:02:36
new subscribers. they added 962. So
00:02:39
30,000 fewer because 30,000 people
00:02:42
didn't show up for subscription. So not
00:02:44
only do these do these actions punch
00:02:46
above their weight class in terms of
00:02:47
economic impact, if you take if Sam
00:02:51
Alman is grows his subscriptions 7 12%
00:02:55
versus 8% month, he's not going to close
00:02:58
his $850 billion round.
00:03:00
>> Yep.
00:03:01
>> So this is literally this is the string.
00:03:03
If you if if you don't have the time or
00:03:06
the energy to do some of the very other
00:03:07
important work, whether it's protests or
00:03:09
or or calling your congressman, you can
00:03:12
have a massive impact by unsubscribing
00:03:14
right now.
00:03:15
>> Yeah, you can. Now, speaking of which,
00:03:17
and something the administration does
00:03:18
care about, Attorney General Pam Bondi,
00:03:20
who we'll talk about more in a minute,
00:03:21
was testifying in front of the the Jan,
00:03:24
crazy Jan, was testifying in front of
00:03:26
Congress about Epstein on Wednesday. She
00:03:28
made it clear she'd prefer to be talking
00:03:29
about other things. What did she zero in
00:03:31
on? Let's listen. Dow is over $50,000. I
00:03:35
don't know why you're laughing. You're a
00:03:37
great stock trader as I hear rascin. The
00:03:39
Dow is over $50,000
00:03:42
right now. The S&P at almost 7,000
00:03:46
and the NASDAQ smashing records.
00:03:50
Americans 401ks and retirement savings
00:03:53
are booming. That's what we should be
00:03:56
talking about.
00:03:57
>> Well, she's not the Treasury Secretary,
00:03:59
but this is what shows what they care
00:04:00
about. They really do. the fact that it
00:04:02
was inappropriate to bring this up in
00:04:04
here given they were talking about
00:04:05
victims sexual uh uh abuse victims, but
00:04:09
nonetheless, this is what floats their
00:04:11
boat is is this money, right? And so,
00:04:14
let's also listen to a great idea one of
00:04:15
our listeners sent in.
00:04:17
>> Every child of an elderly person should
00:04:21
also go through all of their parents
00:04:24
subscriptions. I went through my
00:04:26
mother's this weekend and was able to
00:04:28
take $125
00:04:30
off of some bills by unsubscribing
00:04:33
subscriptions she didn't even know she
00:04:35
had.
00:04:36
>> That is a great idea. I do that with my
00:04:37
mom all the time and I'm trying very
00:04:39
hard to take the New York Post off of
00:04:41
her subscriptions.
00:04:42
>> Two years after my mother died, I found
00:04:44
that Geico was still taking $220 out of
00:04:47
her bank account a month for car
00:04:49
insurance.
00:04:50
>> Wow. Crazy. if you don't, and I've used
00:04:52
this example before, when I unsubscribed
00:04:54
from AT&T, went to Noble, I'm saving
00:04:56
about 20 or 30 bucks a month, but in
00:04:58
addition, I found out
00:04:59
>> I had four accounts with AT&T for
00:05:01
Blackberries and iPads, which have been
00:05:03
in landfills for years, cuz I never went
00:05:05
on and unsubscribed them. And even
00:05:07
though they know they're not getting a
00:05:08
GPS signal from these things, and they
00:05:10
could send you an email saying, "Hey,
00:05:11
you know, you're paying 70 bucks a month
00:05:13
>> for something you haven't used in 5
00:05:15
years,
00:05:15
>> you're going to save money. It's these
00:05:17
companies are very good at figuring out
00:05:19
a way to get you to subscribe and get
00:05:20
you to forget that it's coming that this
00:05:23
money is coming out of your pocket every
00:05:24
month.
00:05:24
>> Yeah. You know, there's a couple
00:05:25
services and I don't have the names to
00:05:27
show where your subscriptions are and to
00:05:29
unsubscribe, but this is a better way to
00:05:31
do it. But then you can use those
00:05:32
services to find them all over the
00:05:34
place. You'd be surprised of what you're
00:05:36
I found an AT&T thing. I was still from
00:05:38
when Apple first had the iPhone when
00:05:40
they had unlimited if you remember.
00:05:42
Anyway, uh it's a great thing to do.
00:05:44
Keep going. We're going to do more.
00:05:45
We're gonna every little thing we can
00:05:47
pull on. The administration cares about
00:05:48
this issue. Uh it's the only thing left
00:05:51
is the DAO at this point. The fallout
00:05:53
from the
00:05:54
>> What's that $50,000? She's the [ __ ]
00:05:56
attorney general. She clearly knows
00:05:58
nothing about economics. What is she
00:05:59
talking about? She called the Dow.
00:06:02
>> I know. Also, also calling a
00:06:03
representative Rascin. Who does [ __ ]
00:06:06
does she think she is? She's in his
00:06:08
house. She's in his house. He calls him
00:06:10
Rascin. I'm going to call you Galloway
00:06:12
when I use your house. Hey, Galloway.
00:06:14
Anyway, the fallout from the Epstein
00:06:17
files continues. Speaking of which, as I
00:06:18
mentioned, crazy Attorney General Pam
00:06:20
Bondi, who really needs to be medicated,
00:06:23
testified before the House Judiciary
00:06:25
Committee on Wednesday, and things got
00:06:27
heated. She soiled herself multiple
00:06:29
times. Um, Bondie sparred with
00:06:31
Democrats, not just Democrats, over DH's
00:06:33
handling of the Epstein files and
00:06:35
refused to apologize to survivors. She
00:06:37
wouldn't even look at them there. It
00:06:38
turned out she's never talked to them.
00:06:40
She also clashed with uh GOP Congressman
00:06:42
Thomas Massie. Massie criticized Bondi
00:06:45
and the DOJ for failing to redact
00:06:46
victim's names while blacking out the
00:06:48
names of businessmen uh businessman Les
00:06:50
Wexner. Let's listen to the exchange.
00:06:53
>> Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was
00:06:56
added back
00:06:57
>> within 40 minutes of me catching you
00:06:59
redhanded.
00:07:00
>> Red hand. There was one redaction out
00:07:06
and we invited you in. We This guy has
00:07:09
Trump derangement syndrome. He needs to
00:07:11
get You're a failed politician.
00:07:14
Uh really crazy crazy craziness I have
00:07:18
to say. I just don't know what to say.
00:07:19
She's What is wrong with her? Like ser
00:07:22
speaking of derangement syndrome. Like
00:07:25
honestly I don't know what she was doing
00:07:27
up there. I know it's an audience of one
00:07:29
but he can't even find this impressive.
00:07:31
It's grotesque. I mean I don't know.
00:07:35
>> Yeah. It really feels like we have
00:07:38
>> wheels are coming off. I mean it's it's
00:07:39
it's a shame because it's just so
00:07:42
>> it's a serious issue
00:07:43
>> weird and it's the attorney general
00:07:46
making a mockery of the institution and
00:07:48
just
00:07:49
u no no decorum but for I'm curious what
00:07:54
you thought about the hearings but the
00:07:56
moment that I found really chilling
00:07:59
was when I think it was representative
00:08:02
Jaipal
00:08:04
had um some of the the survivors uh
00:08:08
stand up and asked how many of them have
00:08:10
reached out to the DOJ
00:08:12
>> to provide evidence or input, but all
00:08:14
these survivors stood up.
00:08:16
>> Yeah.
00:08:16
>> And it was clear they've reached out to
00:08:18
the DOJ and the DOJ has um has is has
00:08:22
ignored them. And you thought, let me
00:08:23
get this, the Department of Justice
00:08:26
>> investigating what is arguably may go
00:08:28
down as the crime of the century to date
00:08:31
>> and survivors and people with direct
00:08:33
knowledge about what happened or what
00:08:35
didn't happen. They could also, quite
00:08:36
frankly, they might exonerate some
00:08:38
people.
00:08:38
>> Right. Exactly.
00:08:39
>> They don't want to talk to them.
00:08:41
>> Right. Right. And she wouldn't look at
00:08:42
them. That was another moment. She
00:08:44
wouldn't turn around. She wouldn't do
00:08:46
it. She This woman is insane. I just I
00:08:49
don't She a crazy one. She's like, it
00:08:52
was so strange. And And I know this
00:08:54
audience of one they always do, but in
00:08:56
this case, I was like, "Wow, you people
00:08:57
are desperate and terrified of what's
00:08:59
coming next for you." You know, I
00:09:01
thought Massie was effective. I thought
00:09:03
Becca Balant was effective. I thought
00:09:05
Gipol's effective, Rascin, um I thought
00:09:08
they all one of the things someone who
00:09:10
works there said, "How do you think it
00:09:11
went?" And I said, "The only problem
00:09:13
with this kind of thing was you lay down
00:09:17
with pigs. The only one only people that
00:09:20
like wrestling with pigs are the pigs,
00:09:21
right? If you get in the mud with them."
00:09:23
But I thought they rel they relatively
00:09:25
handle it well. It's just that the the
00:09:27
craziness is what gets attention and not
00:09:29
the victims, right? It becomes a
00:09:30
ridiculous circus. And on some level,
00:09:33
what was interesting is Fox didn't show
00:09:35
it, right? They they they they keep
00:09:37
they're obsessed with the Nancy Nancy
00:09:39
Guthrie kidnapping, which is a terrible
00:09:41
thing, too. But they're not even airing
00:09:43
it. They don't want to see show you the
00:09:45
crazy like and any normal person looking
00:09:47
at this would be like, "What? Honey, you
00:09:50
need some you need some therapy like
00:09:52
stat kind of thing." And you're you
00:09:54
know, and what happened to you? So, I
00:09:56
thought that was it was a really
00:09:58
interesting This Epste thing isn't going
00:09:59
away, Pam. I'm sorry. It's just not now
00:10:01
cuz it's so very clear that you didn't
00:10:03
do your job and neither did people
00:10:05
before you, by the way. But guess what?
00:10:07
>> It's a valid point.
00:10:08
>> You're in the chair now. I don't really
00:10:10
>> It's her It's her DOJ.
00:10:12
>> It's her DOJ
00:10:12
>> and her boss her boss is mentioned
00:10:15
>> in the Epstein files more times than
00:10:17
Jesus is mentioned in the Bible or the
00:10:19
term meth is mentioned in Breaking Bad
00:10:21
over eight seasons. And I felt like
00:10:23
every day, every time yesterday, she
00:10:25
>> she claimed that, you know, the
00:10:26
president had been the most quote
00:10:27
unquote transparent president. When she
00:10:30
uses the term transparent, I think some
00:10:32
somewhere there's a thesaurus filing for
00:10:34
protective custody. It's just
00:10:36
>> why are you laughing at me was just
00:10:41
and al just it's it was so weird. It's
00:10:43
so weird. It's so culty. It's so
00:10:45
strange. One of the things I do think is
00:10:46
effective is a lot of these Congress
00:10:48
people are going in and seeing
00:10:49
unredacted versions which are very
00:10:50
upsetting. um
00:10:52
>> when they come out and they look like
00:10:53
they've seen a ghost.
00:10:54
>> I know. Even Cynthia Lumis who was I
00:10:57
didn't know it was there now. Whoa.
00:10:59
Whoa. Folks, like Cynthia Lumis, I'm so
00:11:02
glad she's leaving politics. But I have
00:11:04
to say, even someone like that who
00:11:06
literally puts in the least effort
00:11:08
possible. Um same thing. They're looking
00:11:10
like, "Oh my [ __ ] god, you're kidding
00:11:12
me here." And you know, nobody's
00:11:14
>> I got to be honest. I didn't I didn't
00:11:16
realize it was this bad.
00:11:18
>> Yeah. when the more information you you
00:11:20
read about this
00:11:21
>> Yeah.
00:11:22
>> in terms of the number of victims.
00:11:24
>> Yeah.
00:11:25
>> In terms of how many people were
00:11:27
involved, uh how many
00:11:29
>> how many opportunities there were to
00:11:31
stop it.
00:11:32
>> Yeah.
00:11:33
>> And it just gets the web keeps getting
00:11:35
deeper and uglier.
00:11:36
>> Yes. And the lies like when commerce
00:11:38
secretary Howard Letic was on Capital
00:11:39
Hill this week as well. He told the
00:11:41
Senate committee he and his family had
00:11:42
lunch on Epstein's island in 2012, but
00:11:44
insisted he'd not have a relationship
00:11:45
with him. Of course, this was he had
00:11:47
given this sort of haha interview with
00:11:50
one of these right-wing outfits where he
00:11:52
said, "I never in that."
00:11:53
>> He was indignant. I was disgusted by him
00:11:56
and I said, "We're never we're going to
00:11:58
have no contact with him again." And
00:12:00
here's the thing.
00:12:01
>> He took his kids. I I I took my four
00:12:03
kids and their nannies and I got all the
00:12:05
kids off the island. That by
00:12:07
>> But this is the thing. It's not It's
00:12:09
It's not It's usually not the the
00:12:11
infraction itself. It's the cover up. If
00:12:13
he had said,
00:12:14
>> why'd he say the first thing? That's
00:12:16
>> But if he had just said right up front,
00:12:18
he's a neighbor. He had powerful
00:12:20
friends. I didn't do the diligence I
00:12:22
should have. I went with me and my kids
00:12:23
to his island once cuz it sounded like
00:12:25
fun.
00:12:26
>> Yeah.
00:12:26
>> Okay. Poor judgment, but go along, get
00:12:29
along.
00:12:30
>> Instead of trying to wrap yourself in
00:12:32
some sort of indignance that you
00:12:33
immedately smelled a rat and you're
00:12:35
lying
00:12:36
>> and you decided to
00:12:38
>> I mean, if he just come clean in the
00:12:40
beginning, said like, "Yeah, it was bad
00:12:42
judgment. took my kids to his island,
00:12:43
had a lunch. I'd heard he was a big
00:12:45
philanthropist and who knows maybe it
00:12:47
was okay. All right. Bad judgment. Move
00:12:51
along. But it again, it's the cover.
00:12:54
>> He had to take a laugh. He had to take a
00:12:56
I'm so pure laugh. And he that's cuz
00:12:58
he's a [ __ ] Let's let's be clear. This
00:13:00
guy's a [ __ ] And people are asking for
00:13:02
him to resign. He really is a liar. He's
00:13:03
a liar and a [ __ ] And it doesn't mean
00:13:06
he had to do anything, but he's a liar
00:13:08
and a [ __ ] The one that one that's
00:13:10
interesting under scrutiny is
00:13:12
entertainment executive Casey Wasserman.
00:13:14
Chapel Rowan and other artists have cut
00:13:15
ties with Wasserman as is their right
00:13:17
after latest file show exchanged emails
00:13:19
was Julian Maxwell seemed to have some
00:13:21
kind of relationship with her probably
00:13:24
extramarital who knows who serves as
00:13:26
chairman of the LA Olympics organized
00:13:28
appears to be holding on to that role.
00:13:30
They're backing him. There were other
00:13:31
names floated to take his place. He let
00:13:33
me be clear for people not letting him
00:13:35
out but it was 2003 before any of this
00:13:38
was known. He may have been able to pick
00:13:40
it up. That's different. Um but uh but
00:13:43
this was well before the first
00:13:45
conviction, the first um sweetheart deal
00:13:48
that Epstein did with in Florida. Um so
00:13:52
he's even even he's under scrutiny and
00:13:54
people are cutting ties. And again, this
00:13:57
is this artist right. They don't like
00:13:58
the cut of his jib. That's perfectly
00:14:00
fine. In his case, there's just the the
00:14:03
blast zone of this is so far right. It's
00:14:06
really
00:14:07
>> it's so indiscriminate. And again, I go
00:14:09
to the following.
00:14:10
>> Yeah.
00:14:10
>> If we had an institution we could trust,
00:14:12
including the Department of Justice and
00:14:14
the institutions that actually assembled
00:14:15
these files, if they could go through it
00:14:17
and go, "Okay, there are three circles
00:14:19
here. There's people who either engaged
00:14:22
in provided infrastructure or trafficked
00:14:25
and facilitated crimes, we are going to
00:14:27
release those names in the form of grand
00:14:29
jury indictments, and we're going to go
00:14:31
after these people." That's the headline
00:14:32
here. That's what the Department of
00:14:34
Justice isn't supposed to ruin people's
00:14:36
careers. It's supposed to create an
00:14:37
incentive system where people follow the
00:14:39
law by prosecuting criminals and
00:14:41
exonerating people who are not guilty.
00:14:43
That is what they are there to do. And
00:14:45
then the second circle, and this is a
00:14:47
harder one, is okay, if a cabinet, if a
00:14:50
cabinet member has clearly lied under
00:14:52
their testimony or under oath, should
00:14:54
they release that information? Didn't
00:14:56
didn't commit a crime. This is Howard
00:14:57
Lutnik. Should the president, who has
00:15:00
not so far been accused of a crime, if
00:15:02
he's mentioned in this thing 6,000
00:15:04
times, should we release that
00:15:05
information? I think that is a really
00:15:08
important point. The biggest circle,
00:15:10
quite frankly, is go I have seen on Tik
00:15:14
Tok and on Instagram people talking
00:15:16
about models, how they talked about
00:15:19
going to a museum with Jeffrey Epstein
00:15:21
and we should no longer uh have anything
00:15:24
to do. They're trying to shame all these
00:15:25
people and it's like, you know what,
00:15:27
folks, that's just pure gossip. And
00:15:30
unfortunately, the ring light shaming of
00:15:33
all these courageous, virtuous people
00:15:35
when they're behind a a keyboard and
00:15:37
have much higher standards for other
00:15:38
people than they do for themselves, that
00:15:40
is distracting from what the Department
00:15:42
of Justice is supposed to do. And that
00:15:44
has put pedophiles in prison.
00:15:47
>> Yeah, I would urge people to read. It
00:15:48
was really interesting. you know, Kathy
00:15:50
Katherine Rumler, who's the the legal
00:15:52
head of Goldman, you know, she was she
00:15:55
had a lot of emails and very chummy kind
00:15:57
of emails with Epstein going on for a
00:15:59
while. Um, I thought Bill Cohen did a
00:16:03
great job talking about why she was in
00:16:06
that relationship and most of it was in
00:16:08
fact she was professional. She's looking
00:16:10
for work, right? And that's a whole
00:16:12
different
00:16:12
>> guy who knows rich guys who can send me
00:16:14
a for wealth management.
00:16:15
>> Yes, exactly. So I would urge people to
00:16:17
read that and again one or two of them
00:16:20
and and one or two places she when he
00:16:22
said oh I it was only prostitution she
00:16:24
goes that's justice abusive Jeffrey like
00:16:27
she she unfortunately he kept saying
00:16:28
there are gifts there was a business
00:16:30
relationship I thought it was it was
00:16:32
actually a really um complex situation
00:16:36
that made me think god if she was a guy
00:16:38
and she did like golf with him she'd get
00:16:41
off because she was a woman was vaguely
00:16:43
flirty kind of she wasn't like it was it
00:16:47
was a great piece cuz it made me rethink
00:16:49
I was like okay like not great judgment
00:16:53
right should have known better should
00:16:55
have stopped talking to him after the
00:16:58
first thing um but didn't business it
00:17:01
was just interesting it was it made me
00:17:03
think a lot I recommend Bill Cohen's
00:17:04
column in pock and I thought this was
00:17:08
this is his area of expertise in finance
00:17:10
and I thought okay I got this is why
00:17:12
there she was he was trying to explain
00:17:14
why they haven't let her go, right? So,
00:17:16
I thought that was interesting. Anyway,
00:17:18
um speaking of uh um power, six
00:17:21
Republicans joined Democrats in the
00:17:22
House on Wednesday to vote for a
00:17:23
resolution aimed at ending President
00:17:25
Trump's tariffs on Canada that it's a
00:17:27
symbolic gesture, even if it clears the
00:17:29
Senate. Uh Trump would veto it, but that
00:17:31
didn't stop him from making threats.
00:17:32
Trump posted on True Social, that any
00:17:34
Republican who votes against the
00:17:35
terrorists would seriously uh suffer
00:17:38
consequences come election time, and
00:17:39
that includes primaries. Uh I think he's
00:17:41
losing the grip, as they say. What what
00:17:44
do you think?
00:17:44
>> Well, there's some new data that shows
00:17:46
that about So, the initial notion was
00:17:48
the tariffs would
00:17:50
uh mostly be paid by either
00:17:52
corporations, sort of a populist thing,
00:17:55
or the uh uh importer or excuse me, the
00:17:59
exporter themselves, the the country
00:18:01
would absorb it or whoever was sending
00:18:03
the products. It ends up and there's
00:18:04
finally analysis 94%
00:18:07
of the costs have been borne by US
00:18:09
consumers and then the other 6% have
00:18:11
been borne by companies either deciding
00:18:12
to take a bit of a hit or the the
00:18:15
importer themselves or excuse me the
00:18:17
exporter themselves reducing their
00:18:19
prices. You have about 15% of the
00:18:22
economy is um imports.
00:18:25
It they thought the tariffs average
00:18:27
around 20% so that's 3%. some managed to
00:18:30
get out of it. So, call it a 2% to the
00:18:32
economy, but the problem is it's an
00:18:34
unnecessary 2% hit to the economy. To be
00:18:37
fair, it hasn't had the catastrophic
00:18:39
effect a lot of people thought it was
00:18:40
going to have, but in a weird way.
00:18:44
>> Well, if Yeah, it's just
00:18:46
>> I feel it myself and the shelves are
00:18:48
emptier. It's weird. I never have
00:18:50
noticed that.
00:18:50
>> Well, but why reduce people's prosperity
00:18:52
by 2% for no real reason? It doesn't
00:18:54
cause growth. It doesn't cause
00:18:55
innovation. And all it's doing is is is
00:18:58
urging or reconfiguring the supply chain
00:19:01
>> around the United States. The EU is
00:19:02
entering into an agreement with
00:19:04
Merkasaur. There all kinds of new trade
00:19:06
zones being opened up such that people
00:19:08
are not as reliant on the US. And a
00:19:10
weird a weird thing though is that if
00:19:13
his tariffs are overturned
00:19:16
in by the Supreme Court or by the
00:19:18
Congress, I actually think the markets
00:19:20
will rip. So, in a weird way, it could
00:19:23
end up it could end up helping him if if
00:19:26
these things are turned back. I think
00:19:28
the markets will scream if these tariffs
00:19:31
are found to be uh illegal.
00:19:33
>> Yeah. Well, we'll see. And although
00:19:35
apparently he's got all these plans to
00:19:36
put other kinds of fees in place to take
00:19:39
their place that are that he that he'll
00:19:41
have to go back to court and stop him
00:19:43
for those. He's doubling down. This is
00:19:45
something he's talked about for years.
00:19:46
So, I don't know if he's going to back
00:19:47
off so quickly and take the
00:19:49
>> take the victory here. He'd like to take
00:19:52
the L. Honestly,
00:19:54
>> I don't know. No, they you know that
00:19:57
lunatic Peter Navaro talks about him
00:19:58
like that we have a whole bunch of
00:20:00
things to happen if the Supreme Court
00:20:02
>> overturns this. What's taking the
00:20:04
Supreme Court so long by the way?
00:20:06
Anyway, uh we'll see what happens. I do
00:20:07
think on the broader sense that there's
00:20:09
lots more um Republicans willing to push
00:20:12
back because of their own political
00:20:14
survival is not linked to Donald Trump
00:20:16
as much anymore. The other thing is it
00:20:18
looks like they may lose control of the
00:20:19
House.
00:20:20
>> That's right. Another person's
00:20:21
resigning, right?
00:20:23
>> So, you know, they're one they're one
00:20:25
sick person away from losing having the
00:20:28
Democrats in control. So, it's a really
00:20:30
interesting time. He doesn't have the
00:20:32
the power is slipping away and that's
00:20:33
why he screamy Pam or this nonsense and
00:20:36
stuff. So we'll see more of that I
00:20:38
think. Um okay Scott let's go on a quick
00:20:40
break. When we come back social media on
00:20:42
trial very important case
00:20:45
support for pivot comes from anthropic.
00:20:48
There are bumps in the road. The ones
00:20:50
you can just throw a band-aid on and be
00:20:51
done with it. And then there are the
00:20:53
bigger problems. The ones where you
00:20:55
really have to stop and think through.
00:20:57
The ones when you finally crack it feels
00:20:59
unbelievable. And for those problems,
00:21:01
you're going to need a partner to help
00:21:02
you understand where you're at, where
00:21:04
you're going, and how you're getting
00:21:05
there. Claude from Anthropic is that
00:21:08
partner. Claude is the AI for minds that
00:21:10
don't stop at good enough. It's a
00:21:12
collaborator that actually understands
00:21:14
your entire workflow and thinks with
00:21:15
you, whether you're debugging code at
00:21:17
midnight or strategizing your next
00:21:19
business move. Claude extends your
00:21:21
thinking to tackle the problems that
00:21:22
matter. Plus, Claude's research
00:21:24
capabilities go deeper than basic web
00:21:26
search. It can use comprehensive,
00:21:28
reliable analysis with proper citations,
00:21:30
turning hours of research into minutes.
00:21:33
Ready to tackle bigger problems? Start
00:21:35
with Claude today at claude.ai/pivot.
00:21:39
That's claude.ai/pivot.
00:21:41
And check out Claude Pro, which includes
00:21:43
access to all the features mentioned in
00:21:45
today's episode. Claude.ai/pivot.
00:21:56
Support for the show comes from
00:21:57
Corewave. AI isn't just a new tool. It
00:21:59
encompasses so much more. It's spurring
00:22:02
a revolution across all industries and
00:22:03
reshaping itself to become a big part of
00:22:05
our future together. Coreweave is at the
00:22:07
center, powering some of the biggest
00:22:09
names in AI. As the essential cloud for
00:22:11
AI, Corewave provides an AI platform
00:22:13
that combines next generation
00:22:15
infrastructure, intelligent tools, and
00:22:16
expert support. It's powering the
00:22:18
world's most complex AI workloads faster
00:22:20
and more efficiently. From medical
00:22:21
research and diagnosis to education,
00:22:23
from complex visual effects from movies
00:22:25
to breakthroughs in science and
00:22:26
technology. If it's AI, Cororeweave is
00:22:29
uniquely ready to power it with
00:22:30
purpose-built tech. The big ideas, the
00:22:32
wild visions and what-ifs and why nots.
00:22:35
Cororeeve is working to build what's
00:22:37
never been built before. Cororeweave is
00:22:39
the essential cloud for AI. Ready for
00:22:41
anything, ready for AI. To learn more
00:22:43
about how Coree powers the world's best
00:22:44
AI, go to corweave.com/refor.
00:22:54
Scott, we're back with more news. A
00:22:56
landmark social media trial got underway
00:22:57
this week with Meta and YouTube accused
00:22:59
of deliberately designing their
00:23:00
platforms to addict young users. You
00:23:02
think the lawsuit is the first of more
00:23:04
than500 similar cases to go to trial.
00:23:06
This is something that's been building
00:23:07
for a long time. The plaintiff's lawyer
00:23:09
is arguing that his client, a
00:23:10
20-year-old woman, got hooked on these
00:23:12
apps as a kid because they were like
00:23:13
digital casinos delivering dopamine
00:23:15
hits. Instagram head Adam Msari uh
00:23:18
testified on Wednesday that he doesn't
00:23:19
think users can be quote clinically
00:23:21
addicted to the app. Adam Msari is not a
00:23:24
doctor, just so you know. I can't
00:23:26
believe he said that. It was kind of a a
00:23:28
mistake on his part. Meanwhile, and also
00:23:30
he's wrong. Meanwhile, YouTube is
00:23:32
arguing it's not social media, it's an
00:23:34
entertainment platform like Netflix and
00:23:36
it's not addictive. That is also not
00:23:38
true. The jury, anyone who has kids
00:23:40
knows that. Uh it's very different from
00:23:41
Netflix. The jury trial, I mean, it's
00:23:44
become more like Netflix recently, but
00:23:46
it's also an addictive situation. The
00:23:48
jury trial is expected to last six to
00:23:50
eight weeks with Mark Zuckerberg and
00:23:51
YouTube's Neil Mo expected to testify.
00:23:54
This is a really important trial. The
00:23:56
big names are coming out and talking
00:23:57
about an issue you and I have talked
00:23:59
about for years. Um, what what are the
00:24:02
actual effects and who is responsible
00:24:04
for creating an addictive product? And
00:24:07
I'm sorry, Adam. I'm not a doctor
00:24:08
either, but any fool will tell you it's
00:24:11
anyone, not fool, any person will tell
00:24:13
you it's addictive. Anyone who uses it.
00:24:15
Um, and you design and there's so much
00:24:17
proof that you've designed it like a
00:24:19
casino or a cigarette or whatever it
00:24:21
happens to be. Thoughts?
00:24:22
>> Well, imagine you're 14 and someone you
00:24:26
go into your room and if you were like
00:24:28
me, your mom wasn't home until 6:00 or 7
00:24:30
p.m. and you're home alone.
00:24:31
>> Gilligans Island
00:24:32
>> and yeah, that's it was Bugs Bunny and
00:24:34
Gilligans Island and I Dream of Genie
00:24:36
for me. But what if in the corner there
00:24:37
was a casino? What if there was an
00:24:41
arcade? What if there was?
00:24:45
What if there was unlimited music? What
00:24:47
if there And then you say, "No, no, no.
00:24:50
Study. What if there was the high school
00:24:52
cafeteria where I could say something
00:24:54
mean about someone else or someone could
00:24:57
say something mean about me and all I
00:24:58
could think about the rest of the day
00:24:59
and night was what they were saying
00:25:00
about me?" That the high school
00:25:02
cafeteria never never left. And it ends
00:25:06
up that about 6% of teenagers are
00:25:08
clinically addicted or or meet the
00:25:11
clinical definition of addicted to
00:25:12
either drugs or alcohol. But under that
00:25:15
same those same standards, 24% are
00:25:17
addicted to social media. And just some
00:25:20
data, the average American team teen
00:25:22
spends 4.8 hours a day using social
00:25:24
media. 16% of teens or one in six use
00:25:27
Tik Tok almost constantly. 15% for
00:25:30
YouTube, 13% for Snap, 12% for
00:25:33
Instagram. And roughly half of all teens
00:25:35
report feeling addicted to social media.
00:25:38
And you say, well, okay, fine. What's
00:25:40
the impact? Teens who are in the highest
00:25:43
use group expressed two times more
00:25:45
suicidal intent or self harm than those
00:25:47
in the lowest use group. And the highest
00:25:50
use group also express poor uh body
00:25:52
image at three times more than the
00:25:56
lowest use group. And it typically takes
00:25:58
a society or it takes America 20 to 30
00:26:01
years to respond to really negative
00:26:04
externalities. Took us 30 years with
00:26:06
tobacco. It took us 20 years with
00:26:07
opiates. And if you think about social
00:26:10
going on mobile in 2012, it 20 years is
00:26:14
probably the right number. I think when
00:26:15
I'm I mean parents always ask me what
00:26:17
should I do with my kids and I say how
00:26:18
old are your kids? And if they say three
00:26:20
or five, I'm like, we'll have it figured
00:26:21
out by then because the data here is so
00:26:24
overwhelming and we're up against uh
00:26:28
intrigence and people trying to delay an
00:26:30
opuscate similar to those tobacco
00:26:32
executives and they have more money and
00:26:33
they're more skilled this time. But
00:26:35
eventually the tide, the tsunami of
00:26:38
parental concern here, you know,
00:26:41
understandable parental concern is
00:26:43
washing over all this [ __ ] where so
00:26:46
I think in I would say I mean you have
00:26:48
entire countries now age gating. Look at
00:26:50
what Australia is doing. I think another
00:26:53
two to three years I'm hopeful the
00:26:55
landscape's going to be much different
00:26:57
for children. The the remedies would be
00:26:59
warning sign there's lots of remedies
00:27:01
like with cigarettes peopleating age
00:27:03
gating warning signals um they check
00:27:07
ages legal liability the age checking is
00:27:10
harder
00:27:11
>> what every what every other substance
00:27:13
company and manufacturers media company
00:27:15
is subject to
00:27:16
>> they've got to be kidding you know
00:27:18
there's so much you they have so many
00:27:20
emails of them talking about this that's
00:27:22
the problem for Adam is sorry to say
00:27:24
this he doesn't think it's clinically
00:27:25
addictive come on Adam, come on. We all
00:27:28
think it is. We The problem is every
00:27:30
adult knows this in their bones, right?
00:27:33
It's like
00:27:33
>> cuz we're addicted.
00:27:34
>> We're addicted. Like, we are. It's a
00:27:36
problem. You cannot put it down. And it
00:27:38
is different from television. It is very
00:27:40
different. And television. Listen,
00:27:42
Gilligans Island's addictive enough. I
00:27:44
can't believe I watched all that [ __ ]
00:27:45
But you can walk away from it in a way.
00:27:47
You cannot walk away from this. It's I
00:27:50
find myself I'm I have to throw the
00:27:51
phone across the room, right? Sometimes
00:27:54
I'm like, "Put it down." Um, you know,
00:27:57
every Amanda, same thing. We just It's
00:27:59
really interesting. And sometimes I
00:28:01
think about it. I'm like, I like news
00:28:03
and I'm read I'm mostly reading news,
00:28:05
but I don't stop. That's the difference.
00:28:07
I put down magazines. I put down
00:28:09
newspapers. And I love news. So, this is
00:28:12
the all this stuff as it gets out, as
00:28:14
you see the emails in inside the company
00:28:17
talking about it. And especially early
00:28:20
on, they knew just what they were doing.
00:28:21
And um perhaps they weren't meaning to
00:28:24
be malevolent at the beginning, but it's
00:28:26
malevolent for many young people and the
00:28:28
impact is huge. And then they just keep
00:28:30
doubling down with AI relationships and
00:28:32
synthetic relationships and everything
00:28:34
else. This is the time has come round at
00:28:37
last for these companies. We'll see how
00:28:38
well how how this trial does, but it's
00:28:41
going to it's going to just uncover more
00:28:43
and more about what they knew. very much
00:28:45
like the cigarette companies.
00:28:46
>> When you have hundreds of billions of
00:28:48
dollars in shareholder value, trillions
00:28:50
of dollars of shareholder value, hundred
00:28:51
billions in revenue, millions of some of
00:28:53
the brightest people in the world, and
00:28:55
trillions of data points, all trying,
00:28:56
all aiming towards one thing. How do we
00:28:58
get people to spend one more second
00:29:02
every day on social and less time
00:29:06
somewhere else, whether it's sports,
00:29:08
friends, studying, sleep, and they're
00:29:10
winning. And young people, especially
00:29:12
young men, who have this tremendous fall
00:29:13
in their brains where they're constantly
00:29:15
dopah hungry, they're up against an
00:29:17
indomitable foe. And then the other
00:29:21
>> like sugar. It's like sugar. It's the
00:29:22
same thing. It's the same.
00:29:23
>> And then there's two or three. But your
00:29:25
kid your kid can take, you know, a 10
00:29:27
pound bag of sugar into his bedroom with
00:29:29
him.
00:29:30
>> The the the other kid my kid could, but
00:29:33
go ahead.
00:29:34
>> The other two things it is a cumulative
00:29:36
effect that I think have really hurt our
00:29:37
youth are one. I do think parents have
00:29:40
some culpability here and that is we
00:29:44
have decided that our job is to clear
00:29:46
out all borders and obstacles for our
00:29:48
kids. We engage in concierge and
00:29:49
bulldozer parenting and by the time the
00:29:51
kid gets to college he or she has never
00:29:53
had a sea or a disappointment
00:29:55
>> and we've created this princess and pee
00:29:58
um generation with good intentions. We
00:30:00
thought we were doing our kids a good
00:30:02
thing. And then something that doesn't
00:30:03
get talked a lot about but I absolutely
00:30:06
think is adding up to a generation that
00:30:09
is at a disadvantage and that is if you
00:30:11
are 21 since the age of 10 the person
00:30:15
you are supposed to look up to most in
00:30:17
the world is Donald Trump. So
00:30:21
performative verality, coarseness and
00:30:23
cruelty,
00:30:25
>> online scams,
00:30:27
>> crypto, doubling down on lies. This has
00:30:31
been the role model
00:30:33
>> as kids brains are being wired during
00:30:36
puberty. And no matter who is president
00:30:38
or what you think of the office,
00:30:40
>> president is the person that millions of
00:30:44
young Americans look to as the as the
00:30:46
ultimate of success in American values.
00:30:49
So what have we done? We've raised a
00:30:51
generation of kids who are dopah hungry
00:30:53
and their primary role model maybe with
00:30:55
a close second the richest man in the
00:30:58
world
00:30:58
>> the greatest control of all time
00:31:00
>> are exhibiting values that are very
00:31:04
>> I mean and what do you know these 21
00:31:06
year olds are not it's shocking it's
00:31:09
shocking what good people they are what
00:31:11
they have to deal with
00:31:12
>> I would agree I think they do resist
00:31:14
more than you think and actually there
00:31:15
are a lot of parents one of the things I
00:31:17
spent a lot of time doing with my kids
00:31:19
whenever like can Can you go get this
00:31:21
from me? Can you talk to that person if
00:31:22
they wanted something? I'm like, you
00:31:23
need to do it. Like you I you figure it
00:31:26
out has became one of my lines with my
00:31:29
kids, my older kids. You figure it out.
00:31:31
I do it with my younger kids now. With
00:31:33
Saul, I'm like, you figure it out. I
00:31:34
don't know. I know, but you can do it
00:31:36
yourself. And so that's it's the best
00:31:38
piece of advice you can give to like a
00:31:40
kid. You
00:31:41
>> I've started giving my kid pounds when
00:31:43
he gets good grades. Is that wrong?
00:31:45
>> I slip him I slip him a 20 pound. And I
00:31:48
slip him a note when he gets an A on a
00:31:49
test.
00:31:50
>> Do not do that. Well,
00:31:51
>> totally.
00:31:52
>> No. No.
00:31:53
>> Anyway, um
00:31:54
>> that's called that's called capitalism.
00:31:56
>> Okay.
00:31:56
>> You got to get a bunch of money.
00:31:58
>> Okay. All right. Whatever. Whatever you
00:32:00
want to do there, Scott. We should write
00:32:01
competing parenting books. Uh in the
00:32:03
same genre about surveillance, as you
00:32:05
know, that's another thing I go crazy
00:32:06
about. Um investigators in the Nancy
00:32:09
Guthrie abduction case have recovered
00:32:10
footage from the Nest doorbell. Nest is
00:32:12
owned by Google. It was initially
00:32:13
thought to have no video because there
00:32:14
was no active subscription. When you
00:32:16
sign up, you have, for people who don't
00:32:18
know, for Nest or any of these things,
00:32:20
you can buy a subscription. If you
00:32:22
don't, they say they don't keep the
00:32:23
video. As it turns out, they do. The
00:32:26
incident shows that Nest uploads video
00:32:28
to Google Cloud before you decide to
00:32:30
keep it with a paid plan so it can
00:32:31
linger after it says it's been deleted,
00:32:34
is supposed to be deleted. I'm glad they
00:32:37
got these pictures of this guy. At the
00:32:38
same time, this is an edge case. They're
00:32:41
they're keeping your video that which I
00:32:43
which everyone thought they were doing
00:32:45
and they said they weren't. The FBI
00:32:47
working with Google engineers took 10
00:32:48
days to recover the footage from
00:32:49
Guthri's camera. I the companies need to
00:32:52
spell out in plain English how long
00:32:55
deleted footage actually remains on
00:32:57
their servers. And by the way, they're
00:32:58
also getting incredible push back from
00:33:00
the Ring ad for the Super Bowl, which is
00:33:02
like, "We're watching everybody, but
00:33:04
only for your dogs." And there's been a
00:33:06
million memes about only for people we
00:33:08
need to take away. like the surveillance
00:33:11
of these kind of things and the ease of
00:33:14
which they are hacked by the way not
00:33:16
just taken off the door like this
00:33:18
terrible person did um but hacked into
00:33:21
are quite something a lot of people are
00:33:22
getting them hardwired into their house
00:33:24
so that they can't do that and also so
00:33:27
that they can't be um taken via wireless
00:33:31
there's a lot of wireless activity here
00:33:32
but there are ways to a lot of these
00:33:35
things are open season on your home I
00:33:38
don't when I Just speaking of my son, my
00:33:40
kids, Alex took I had one of them up at
00:33:43
one of our houses when we bought it. It
00:33:45
was there, one of these Amazon or Echo
00:33:47
or whatever. He took them all out. He
00:33:49
took one day I came back and everything
00:33:50
was gone. And I was like, "Why?" And he
00:33:53
goes, "Because they can watch us." And I
00:33:55
was like, "Don't be paranoid." He goes,
00:33:56
"I'm not." And he was right. So
00:33:59
>> I think we're I think we have a bit of a
00:34:01
different view on this in the sense that
00:34:03
I think technology I think we gave up
00:34:05
our privacy a long time ago. Yes, Scott
00:34:07
McNeely, we did
00:34:08
>> what I want to see. Oh, remember Scott?
00:34:11
>> Yeah, he said that
00:34:12
>> privacy doesn't exist. Get used to it.
00:34:14
Remember,
00:34:14
>> if you are in London or New York, you
00:34:17
can't go more than I think it's 30 feet
00:34:19
agree
00:34:19
>> outside without a camera.
00:34:21
>> And the reason they did that was they
00:34:23
implemented massive they have like a a
00:34:25
security headquarters because of 911.
00:34:28
And I actually what I think you need
00:34:31
though is really really wellthoughtout
00:34:34
laws and institutions that say we're not
00:34:38
going to go fishing unless it's a felony
00:34:41
crime. We don't investigate it.
00:34:43
>> In other words, people have the right
00:34:45
You said something I've thought about a
00:34:46
lot and that is people have the right to
00:34:48
have secrets.
00:34:49
>> Yeah.
00:34:50
>> And if you want to if you want to go
00:34:52
into a store, if you're I don't know,
00:34:55
you you should be able to do what you
00:34:57
want. If you murder somebody then quite
00:35:00
frankly and there are enough there's
00:35:03
enough evidence to say that you are a
00:35:07
reasonable person of interest then we
00:35:10
are going to utilize uh cameras data
00:35:14
video footage
00:35:15
>> I agree with you I just think you buy
00:35:16
this product and it says it isn't
00:35:18
keeping it if you don't pay for it then
00:35:20
it's not keeping it like I'm sorry
00:35:22
that's just the deal that's just the
00:35:24
deal when you buy I have several of
00:35:25
these and I've taken most of them off my
00:35:27
house, but they say ex and I pay a lot
00:35:30
of attention. We if you don't pay this
00:35:33
stuff is deleted. This is deleted. If it
00:35:36
says it's deleted, it should be deleted.
00:35:38
That's all. It's just the deal you make
00:35:40
with them. And so I don't think they
00:35:41
should keep it if it's supposed to be
00:35:43
deleted. Same thing with Echo. It
00:35:45
shouldn't be listening if it says it's
00:35:47
not listening. Right. That's what that's
00:35:49
if you want it to listen, you can tell
00:35:51
it. That's in your home. I'm talking
00:35:53
about this outside. I think we've lost
00:35:55
that battle. They're going to their
00:35:56
cameras are everywhere in talk about
00:35:58
London. Monte Carlo is really wired. So
00:36:00
is the United States of America. And
00:36:02
that's a good thing when it comes to
00:36:04
crime, but it's a very bad thing when it
00:36:06
comes inside of your house. Cuz Scott, I
00:36:08
know if you want to wear your frilly
00:36:10
underwear, I think I Oh, wait. Was that
00:36:12
a secret? Um, I back people in their
00:36:15
homes. I'm just
00:36:16
>> Daddy goes commando. Big and the twins
00:36:19
want to be free. But I I think it's it's
00:36:22
in this case it was good to be able to
00:36:24
get the picture of this guy. At the same
00:36:26
time, she didn't the intent wasn't to.
00:36:30
So if plain English of what you're doing
00:36:33
and how long it remains and then it
00:36:34
should tell you when it's deleted and
00:36:36
permanently deleted. If they say
00:36:39
permanently deleted, it needs to be
00:36:40
deleted. That's I I feel like that's
00:36:42
>> at some point you should be able to
00:36:44
have, you know, I have cameras around my
00:36:45
house. You can see almost everything.
00:36:47
I try to sneak in all the time
00:36:48
>> if someone were to break in. But I think
00:36:51
what you want is like
00:36:54
this is the hack that I think is coming.
00:36:58
Somebody hacks into Uber with your Uber.
00:37:01
If you use Uber a lot, I think you can
00:37:03
find out when someone is with a thin
00:37:05
layer of AI on top of your Uber trips
00:37:06
where
00:37:06
>> they go.
00:37:07
>> Mhm.
00:37:08
>> They'll be able to know if you just
00:37:09
terminated a pregnancy.
00:37:10
>> Yep.
00:37:11
>> Or if you're a Russian spy. Why is this
00:37:13
person continually going to the Russian
00:37:14
embassy? Why is this are you having
00:37:17
affairs with sameex?
00:37:19
A thin layer of AI on top of your ride
00:37:22
history when and where you are going
00:37:24
places.
00:37:26
>> It would be they would it would be very
00:37:28
easy to say, okay, this person is
00:37:31
clearly suffering from diabetes. This is
00:37:34
why they keep going to this
00:37:36
>> type of clinic. You could. This person
00:37:39
is clearly engaged in a love affair with
00:37:44
this dude at this address. This person
00:37:48
is clearly
00:37:49
>> sure is constantly going to Amtrak. But
00:37:50
go ahead.
00:37:51
>> This person is clearly cooperating with
00:37:53
the CIA as evidenced by the fact they
00:37:55
keep going to this one address that is a
00:37:58
co. They could find out. So that hack,
00:38:04
folks, this is this is the trade we all
00:38:07
make and we all talk a big game. Anyone
00:38:09
who talks about privacy is typically
00:38:11
over the age of 50 and in Brussels or
00:38:12
DC. We consistently trade our privacy
00:38:16
for utility.
00:38:18
>> Yep, we do.
00:38:18
>> And and what I want is massively
00:38:24
Okay. Unless it's a felony, maybe even
00:38:26
more than that, it's a felony that with
00:38:29
that has a threat of violence and
00:38:31
there's really strong evidence against
00:38:33
one person, all that [ __ ] is off limits.
00:38:36
No one can use it.
00:38:37
>> All I'm saying is if they say it's off,
00:38:39
it needs to be off like
00:38:40
>> or at least give you the power to delete
00:38:42
it.
00:38:42
>> It's like if you buy like I don't know,
00:38:45
organic apple, it's not organic. You
00:38:47
can't do that. I mean,
00:38:48
>> it's the same thing. You're selling a
00:38:50
product, you say what it is, stay with
00:38:52
what you say it is. But at the same
00:38:53
time, I love the fact, okay, when when
00:38:56
there's a crime,
00:38:57
>> crime is hitting despite all the
00:38:59
scariness and everyone saying whether
00:39:00
it's whether they saying saying it's,
00:39:02
you know, Eric Adams or mom Donnie or
00:39:04
it's it's bedum in the streets,
00:39:06
>> crime, the number of shootings in New
00:39:08
York last year, I think, hit like an
00:39:09
all-time low.
00:39:11
>> Violence is going and crime, violent
00:39:13
crime has consistently gone down the
00:39:16
last several decades. It was, is it
00:39:17
because we're a better people? I don't
00:39:19
think so. is because if you commit
00:39:21
crimes now, everyone has seen those Law
00:39:23
and Order SUVs
00:39:25
>> that if you if you go into a 7-Eleven in
00:39:28
the middle of [ __ ] nowhere
00:39:30
>> and shoot the clerk,
00:39:32
>> they're film
00:39:32
>> ATMs have cameras. So, was there any
00:39:35
ATMs outside? Then they check the
00:39:37
footage on the ATM. I like I don't like
00:39:39
a surveillance state. I like a state I
00:39:42
like a place where if a really strong
00:39:45
lawyers that where they consistently
00:39:47
say, "I get you think a crime is
00:39:49
committed here. There's not enough
00:39:50
evidence. You do not have access to this
00:39:52
video.
00:39:53
>> Right.
00:39:53
>> Stop. There's evidence that you're
00:39:56
planning a terrorist attack. Sorry,
00:39:58
boss. We're violating your privacy
00:39:59
rights. Every ring light, but we have
00:40:02
Uber. We still I still think we have a
00:40:05
dupe process. We can't have the wrong
00:40:07
people getting a hold of stuff. Anyway,
00:40:09
I I hope they find Nancy Guthrie and I
00:40:12
hope it helps that they have these, but
00:40:15
we have to be it brings up a big issue
00:40:17
about surveillance and we should pay
00:40:19
attention to it. Um, and I hope it helps
00:40:22
find find her and bring her home safely
00:40:24
to her family. Um, anyway, let's go on a
00:40:27
quick break. We come back, uh, we'll
00:40:29
talk about the latest in AI news.
00:40:31
There's a lot of it.
00:40:33
Support for the show comes from Indeed.
00:40:35
Hiring isn't just about finding someone
00:40:37
willing to take the job. It's about
00:40:38
connecting with someone who can move
00:40:40
your business forward. For that, check
00:40:42
out Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Indeed
00:40:44
sponsored jobs boosts your job post for
00:40:46
quality candidates so you can reach
00:40:48
people that can help your business
00:40:49
thrive. People are finding quality hires
00:40:51
on Indeed right now as we speak. In the
00:40:53
minute I've been talking to you, 27
00:40:55
hires were made on Indeed, according to
00:40:56
Indeed data worldwide. Join the 3.3
00:40:59
million employers worldwide that use
00:41:00
Indeed to connect with quality talent
00:41:02
that fits their needs. Spend less time
00:41:04
searching and more time actually
00:41:06
interviewing candidates who check all
00:41:07
your boxes. Less stress, less time, more
00:41:09
results now with Indeed sponsored jobs.
00:41:12
And listeners to this show will get a
00:41:13
$75 sponsored job credit to help get
00:41:16
your job the premium status it deserves
00:41:18
at indeed.com/pivot.
00:41:20
Just go to indeed.com/pivot
00:41:22
right now and support our show by saying
00:41:24
you heard about Indeed on this podcast,
00:41:26
indeed.com/pivot.
00:41:28
Terms and conditions apply. Hiring, do
00:41:30
the right way with Indeed.
00:41:36
Support for this show comes from Quint.
00:41:39
Style doesn't come from chasing new
00:41:41
trends every season. Real style comes
00:41:43
from slowly and intentionally
00:41:44
cultivating a wardrobe filled with
00:41:46
highquality staples that will last. And
00:41:47
if you're on the lookout for a perfect
00:41:49
addition to your closet, look no further
00:41:50
than Quint. You'll find organic cotton
00:41:52
sweaters, polos for every occasion,
00:41:54
light jackets that will help keep you
00:41:55
warm as the seasons change year after
00:41:57
year. Not to mention their famous 100%
00:42:00
Mongolian cashmere. If there's anything
00:42:01
better than Kashmir, I'd love to hear
00:42:03
it. Every Quint's item is built for
00:42:05
everyday wear and made with ethically
00:42:07
sourced materials from top factories.
00:42:09
And by partnering with manufacturers
00:42:10
directly, Quint keeps things affordable.
00:42:12
So, you're only paying for the quality
00:42:14
clothing and not the brand markup. I
00:42:16
have finally bought new Quint clothes,
00:42:18
not just uh soft pants that I can wear
00:42:20
when I do sports. I actually bought more
00:42:22
of those, but I also bought a lovely
00:42:23
cardigan that is so soft. I wear it all
00:42:25
the time. I fell asleep in it the other
00:42:27
day. I bought a beautiful jacket and I
00:42:29
just love it. I have to say this this
00:42:31
cardigan I'm wearing is so comfortable.
00:42:33
It's really good-looking. The fabric,
00:42:35
everything else, it feels richer than it
00:42:37
was. Um, and the same thing with the
00:42:39
coat. It's really good-looking and I
00:42:40
really like wearing it. Again,
00:42:42
comfortable, simple, uh, and just
00:42:45
lovely. I really, really like it.
00:42:47
Refresh your wardrobe with Quint. Don't
00:42:49
wait. Go to quint.com/pivot
00:42:51
for free shipping on your orders and
00:42:53
365day returns. Now available in Canada,
00:42:56
too. That's quinc.com/pivotpivot
00:43:00
t to get free shipping and 365day
00:43:03
returns. quint.com/pivot.
00:43:08
Scott, we're back with more news. Time
00:43:09
for rapid fire of AI news. First up,
00:43:12
Anthropic is in the final stages of
00:43:13
raising $20 billion in new capital at a
00:43:15
valuation of $350 billion
00:43:19
uh valuation. And also at Anthropic, a
00:43:21
researcher submitted a resignation
00:43:23
letter saying the world is in peril,
00:43:25
saying employees constantly face
00:43:27
pressures to set aside what matters
00:43:29
most. That researcher is going off to
00:43:31
write poetry, by the way, which should
00:43:33
trouble you. Over at XAI, Elon Musk has
00:43:36
lost two co-founders, Jimmy Ba and Tony
00:43:38
Woo. Both announced their departure is a
00:43:40
big restructuring over there too when he
00:43:42
as he's brought it into uh SpaceX. The
00:43:45
company at OpenAI, the company's fired
00:43:47
an executive after she opposed plans for
00:43:49
an AI erotica feature in chat GBT citing
00:43:52
sexual discrimination. We don't actually
00:43:54
know what happened here. Uh Anthropic
00:43:56
raised the funding uh raised twice the
00:43:59
funding initially sought based on
00:44:00
investor demand. Uh so thoughts on any
00:44:03
of these stories? Lots of different lots
00:44:05
of stuff happening around AI again.
00:44:07
>> Yeah, the why people get fired or why
00:44:10
they say they were fired? I don't know.
00:44:11
I haven't sorted through that. What I I
00:44:13
think is already happened whether it's
00:44:15
reflected in the valuations or not. I
00:44:18
think Anthropic is now worth more than
00:44:19
open AAI. I think open AAI
00:44:22
>> what was their valuation? 800 billion.
00:44:24
>> Well, they're I think they're trying to
00:44:25
close around at 850.
00:44:26
>> Yeah. 850.
00:44:27
>> But that one VC who kind of if there was
00:44:32
a moment where the the the balloon was
00:44:34
burst, if you will, the bubble was
00:44:35
burst. It was when that VC had Sam Alman
00:44:37
on his podcast and said, "You've made a
00:44:40
trillion dollars in spending commitments
00:44:41
on a company with 20 billion in revenue.
00:44:43
How are you going to do that?" And he
00:44:45
got very defensive about it. And they've
00:44:47
gone consumer anthropics gone
00:44:50
enterprise. Uh they haven't made the
00:44:53
kind of crazy commitments. I I think
00:44:56
there's been the kind of the mother of
00:44:58
all industrial pivots. I think now, if
00:45:01
you will, Avis is now hurts. I think
00:45:03
Anthropic is now worth more or will be
00:45:06
soon than Open AI.
00:45:07
>> They are not making the money.
00:45:10
>> Yeah, that's but they're they're
00:45:12
stronger in the enterprise. Anyways, I
00:45:14
none of this makes any sense in terms of
00:45:16
a multiple on revenues, but uh I think I
00:45:19
think Open AI is in real
00:45:23
um I don't know, crisis is the wrong
00:45:25
word. There's a lot of arguments over on
00:45:28
X about that they have now do not have
00:45:30
he his big thing was I have the best AI
00:45:32
researchers now he does not right from
00:45:35
what most people intelligent people are
00:45:37
saying about it but you know he always
00:45:40
does this he always goes in and shakes
00:45:42
the tree and then shakes the tree again
00:45:44
that's that's his emmo I guess they're a
00:45:47
distant what third or fourth something
00:45:49
>> well these guys are all here's an a
00:45:53
symbol of how easy it is and how
00:45:55
difficult or how vulnerable they are. It
00:45:58
says, "Here are some Daario and Daniela
00:46:00
Emodi.
00:46:02
Uh, we're at OpenAI now at anthropic."
00:46:05
Ilia Sitsker, open AAI, now at safe
00:46:08
super intelligence. Aravan Shinavas,
00:46:11
Open AI, now at Perplexity. Mera Morati,
00:46:13
open AAI now at thinking machines.
00:46:15
Arthur Mench was at Google, now at
00:46:18
Mstral AI. It's the brightest minds here
00:46:21
are supposedly in I used to work with a
00:46:24
lot of luxury brands and they said the
00:46:25
biggest problem they were having in
00:46:26
China
00:46:27
>> Mhm. is that at the biggest malls, if
00:46:29
Prada was had a store across the street
00:46:31
from Bautega Vanetta,
00:46:33
>> if if the manager of that Prada didn't
00:46:36
have people show up, he could go across
00:46:38
the street during the lunch hour to the
00:46:41
lunch court and offer someone 11 bucks
00:46:43
an hour from the Bautga store who was
00:46:45
making 10 and they wouldn't even go back
00:46:47
after their lunch break. They would go
00:46:49
over and work out. It was just so easy
00:46:51
to pick off people by offering them a
00:46:52
dollar more per hour. And it feels so
00:46:55
many of these deep these people who
00:46:57
have, you know, fairly or unfairly have
00:47:01
established themselves as some of the
00:47:03
few minds that really understand this
00:47:04
stuff. The amount of money and
00:47:07
temptation to go do their own thing or
00:47:09
join another firm. It is I mean
00:47:12
supposedly wasn't there reports that
00:47:15
Zuckerberg was paying some people$100 or
00:47:17
$300 million and then he wasn't.
00:47:19
>> I mean it just feels like it's total I
00:47:22
don't know bedum right now. Right. It's
00:47:24
it's they all think they're going to be
00:47:26
the one, right? I'm going to be the
00:47:28
final one standing and I'm going to own
00:47:29
the world essentially, which is a bet.
00:47:32
It's a bet, right? I think one of the
00:47:34
things that continues to plague these
00:47:35
companies are these researchers who are
00:47:37
like, we're [ __ ] everybody. Like they
00:47:40
come out and almost, you know, like
00:47:43
they're sort of like, sh it's going to
00:47:45
kill us,
00:47:46
>> I think. But quite frankly, K, I think a
00:47:47
lot of it is people
00:47:51
backfilling
00:47:53
uh the reason why they're living with
00:47:55
leaving with morality sometimes or some
00:47:57
sort of victimhood. If you look at just
00:48:00
to go back to musical chairs here, if
00:48:02
you look at XAI, the company lost its
00:48:04
second co-founder in just two days. And
00:48:06
that means that half of XAI's founding
00:48:09
team, six of the 12 have left the
00:48:11
company in less than three years of
00:48:13
existence. and Mus said, you know, we we
00:48:16
reorganized XAI to improve the speed of
00:48:18
execution, which required parting some
00:48:20
ways with some people. And I think for
00:48:23
some of these founders, there's legal
00:48:24
risk to staying at XAI. The EU is
00:48:27
currently investigating the company for
00:48:29
its creation of non-consensual sexual
00:48:31
deep fakes based on real people,
00:48:33
including children. So, this really is
00:48:36
the wild west. This is um you know, I
00:48:41
don't know. I I think it's just it's so
00:48:43
difficult to even keep track of
00:48:45
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:46
>> You know, who ends up where and why.
00:48:48
>> It's like as if a science people went
00:48:50
crazy, right? But I I do think the
00:48:53
warnings are getting really interesting.
00:48:55
They're like I wish someone would just
00:48:56
explain what we're in peril. How how are
00:48:59
we in
00:49:00
>> Yeah. How does that manifest? What does
00:49:01
that mean? Hey. Hey. Like, oh, it's like
00:49:04
the people who knew that we were about,
00:49:06
you know, in those movies where a bunch
00:49:07
of people know we're about to get hit by
00:49:09
a like a comet or something and they're
00:49:12
not telling us. They're like, I would
00:49:15
>> love your family. Why
00:49:17
>> is it Arnold Schwarzenegger showing up
00:49:19
at your door wearing Oakleys and a lot
00:49:21
of leather? Like, what is it?
00:49:22
>> What is happening?
00:49:23
>> What does it look like here? What does
00:49:24
it What does it mean? Cuz the employment
00:49:26
destruction that was supposed to be
00:49:27
already well underway, I would argue is
00:49:29
not happening yet. I don't know. But why
00:49:31
would someone say they're in peril?
00:49:33
We're in peril and set aside what
00:49:36
matters most, which is safety
00:49:37
presumably. And then they go off and
00:49:38
write poetry. I would like some more
00:49:40
information if you don't mind. If you're
00:49:42
going to do that, you need to tell me.
00:49:44
>> Yeah. Why exactly why are we in peril?
00:49:46
>> Why are we in peril? But
00:49:48
>> from what? Tell me. Tell us. I know. I
00:49:51
know there's these legal things, but if
00:49:52
it's so terrifying, you need to like
00:49:55
step out and like tell us tell us what
00:49:57
it is and have bring proof, too. by the
00:50:00
way, would love to know when the comet's
00:50:02
going to hit us. In any case, uh
00:50:04
>> but the VP of product policy at OpenAI
00:50:06
was fired after she voiced opposition to
00:50:09
Open AI's upcoming erotica features for
00:50:11
adult users.
00:50:12
>> Yeah,
00:50:13
>> she she did something else
00:50:15
>> that enabling erotica would likely
00:50:17
strengthen feelings that users already
00:50:19
have for the chatbot. Based on a recent
00:50:21
report released by OpenAI, out of chat
00:50:23
GBD's 800 million weekly users,
00:50:26
>> 1.2 And 2 million users are prioritizing
00:50:29
talking to chat GBT over their family,
00:50:31
friends, school, or work. That's less
00:50:32
than I would have thought. Roughly 560K
00:50:36
are experiencing psychosis or mania.
00:50:38
This is shitty research. As a as a as a
00:50:41
ratio by 800 million people, is that
00:50:42
normal or not normal?
00:50:44
>> That's a lot.
00:50:44
>> And about 1.2 million people discuss
00:50:46
suicide with chat GPT. Again, what I
00:50:49
want to see is someone to say,
00:50:51
>> "All right, is that just a function of
00:50:52
people who are depressed thinking they
00:50:53
can talk to chat GPT just as they would
00:50:55
talk to a friend or a therapist, right?
00:50:57
>> Or is it something about talking to chat
00:50:59
GPT?"
00:51:00
>> Right? You get the psychosis,
00:51:01
>> suicidal ideiation or psychosis.
00:51:04
>> Ladder, you know, interesting. I just
00:51:05
did an interview with Sher Challe from
00:51:06
my doc series and she's been saying it
00:51:08
for years and she's like, I've never
00:51:10
seen anything like it now. It was before
00:51:12
on the sidelines and in the darker
00:51:14
places or people had, you know, it was a
00:51:16
small group of people. She goes, "It's
00:51:18
really gone mainstream in a way. I I
00:51:20
would like the information from these
00:51:22
people. Would you come out and bring a
00:51:23
bag and bring it to me or Scott or
00:51:25
something like that?"
00:51:26
>> Anyway,
00:51:28
Carisher, on a separate note, speaking
00:51:31
of sort of normal journalism and getting
00:51:33
information out, one of the most
00:51:35
depressing things, Hong Kong media mogul
00:51:37
and pro-democracy activist Jimmy Lie was
00:51:39
sentenced this week to 20 years in
00:51:40
prison after he found guilty in a
00:51:42
sedition and collusion with foreign
00:51:44
forces. It's the longest sentence ever
00:51:46
handed down under a death sentence.
00:51:48
>> Death sentence. Uh Eli's children are
00:51:50
saying a potential visit by President
00:51:51
Trump April could be crucial in securing
00:51:53
the release of their 78-year-old father.
00:51:55
This is something Trump should do. Back
00:51:56
in December, Trump said he asked uh
00:51:58
President Xi to consider releasing lie.
00:52:01
But on the campaign trail in 2024, he
00:52:03
was a lot more confident saying 100%
00:52:05
I'll get him out. He'll be easy to get
00:52:06
out. He's not so easy to get out. Let's
00:52:09
not forget the real surveillance
00:52:11
economy, the real control economy. We've
00:52:13
talked about these issues around control
00:52:15
and the uses of AI for badness. Um,
00:52:19
China wins the boats everywhere and they
00:52:21
they go after this guy who's a really
00:52:24
important uh figure um uh figure in in
00:52:29
this area. And so if President Trump can
00:52:32
do anything, please do it. If anyone can
00:52:34
do anything, but Jimmy Li is a hero and
00:52:37
and what's happened to him is is as you
00:52:39
say a death sentence.
00:52:40
>> Look, I go to the economics. when you
00:52:42
start imprisoning journalists, whether
00:52:44
it was Turkey in 2012, Soviet Union at
00:52:47
the turn of the century or China, uh,
00:52:50
putting the, you know, taking a very
00:52:53
hardfed approach to Hong Kong in 2021 as
00:52:56
kind of best epitomized by Timi being
00:52:58
imprisoned,
00:53:00
distinct of the morality of it, distinct
00:53:02
of the importance it plays in a society,
00:53:05
the nation gets poorer and angrier. It's
00:53:06
a it is literally a conard a canary in
00:53:09
the coal mine saying we are about to
00:53:11
send a chill across some of the most
00:53:13
talented people and scrutiny about what
00:53:15
can be said about companies that hurts
00:53:17
the economy. The nations get poorer and
00:53:20
angrier and it's literally a symbol of
00:53:24
when an economy is about to move to an
00:53:26
authoritarian state which is really bad
00:53:29
for innovation for attracting outside
00:53:30
capital.
00:53:32
When you're thinking about investing
00:53:35
in Turkey, and all of a sudden they
00:53:36
start locking up journalists. Does that
00:53:37
thing does that does that if you're
00:53:40
Google, you think, "Yeah, I'm going to
00:53:41
start I'm going to open an office in I'm
00:53:45
going to open an office in Istanbul."
00:53:46
You think, you know, I'm going to wait
00:53:47
and see if they sort that out. If you're
00:53:49
one of the brightest PhDs in the world
00:53:52
and you're doing research on
00:53:55
authoritarian governments or you're
00:53:56
doing research on innovation and you're
00:53:58
worried that your research might might
00:54:01
contradict something that the leadership
00:54:03
is espousing to do you go teach at those
00:54:05
universities? No, you go somewhere else.
00:54:08
So
00:54:10
this is look China is not you know is
00:54:13
not a model for
00:54:16
but having said that I was just supposed
00:54:17
to be on with Don Lemon who got
00:54:19
arrested. Why the [ __ ] why are they
00:54:21
arresting Don Lemon?
00:54:22
>> Don Lemon like give me a break. They
00:54:24
shouldn't be arresting any journalist
00:54:26
like this. It's just ridiculous. I would
00:54:28
agree. Um I'm going to finish up with
00:54:30
any Jimmy L. Let's get him out. Let's
00:54:32
let's get him out. He's a hero. Um I'm
00:54:34
going to finish up with something that
00:54:35
just happened. Um Gail Slater, who a
00:54:38
hugely respected lawyer, antitrust
00:54:40
lawyer who was running antitrust of DOJ,
00:54:42
just announced she's stepping down. It
00:54:44
follows uh the the resignation of a guy
00:54:46
named Mark Hammer, who was one of his
00:54:48
her top deputies. She's had clashes with
00:54:51
Pam Bondi over the Hanley antitrust
00:54:53
investigations. I have heard she was in
00:54:55
a real bind over the Paramount thing.
00:54:58
They're trying to like shove through
00:54:59
things that are friendly to the Trump
00:55:02
administration and she just can't do it.
00:55:04
She can't do it. that during her 11
00:55:05
months on the job, she found herself in
00:55:07
this bind caught between the Trump
00:55:09
administration's um
00:55:12
she was close to JD Vance. This is a
00:55:14
very respected and well- reggarded
00:55:16
antitrust version. This should be an
00:55:18
enormous signal that Gail Slater is
00:55:20
stepping down. Um I had hoped to talk to
00:55:22
her, but everyone had told me they
00:55:24
didn't know what she was going to do
00:55:25
about the the Netflix Paramount thing.
00:55:28
Um you cannot be against the Netflix
00:55:30
thing if you're not against the
00:55:31
Paramount thing. I'm sorry. like and of
00:55:34
course she's being, you know, she she
00:55:36
had a she's been put in a bind all over
00:55:38
the place. A talented and and well
00:55:41
regarded person has put into a bind and
00:55:43
so she's stepping down. Um I just don't
00:55:45
know who they'll put in some idiot like
00:55:47
a Brandon Carr type of person who will
00:55:49
just do what they say. Um but it really
00:55:51
brings it down rather significantly.
00:55:53
Even even um Megan Del Reinver works for
00:55:56
Paramount actually now very well
00:55:58
regarded like they're going to have to
00:56:00
put in it in a village [ __ ] idiot in
00:56:02
the Pam Bondi mode. So not a good sign.
00:56:04
Not a good sign.
00:56:05
>> Yeah, great.
00:56:06
>> Anyway, uh one more quick break. We'll
00:56:08
be back for predictions.
00:56:11
>> Support for the show comes from
00:56:12
Netswuite. We all hear all the time how
00:56:14
AI can push businesses to new frontiers.
00:56:16
If you're still not sure what that
00:56:17
actually looks like, particularly for
00:56:19
you and your company, then look no
00:56:21
further than Netswuite by Oracle.
00:56:23
Netswuite is a top AI cloud ERP trusted
00:56:26
by over 43,000 businesses. It's a
00:56:28
unified suite that brings your
00:56:29
financials, inventory, commerce, HR, and
00:56:31
CRM into a single source of truth. With
00:56:34
all that connected data, your AI doesn't
00:56:35
throw out its best guess. It actually
00:56:37
knows what it's talking about. It can
00:56:39
intelligently automate routine tasks,
00:56:40
deliver actionable insights, and help
00:56:42
make fast AI powered decisions with
00:56:44
confidence. Now with Netswuite AI
00:56:46
connector, you can use the AI of your
00:56:48
choice to connect to your actual
00:56:49
business data. Plus, you can automate
00:56:51
those tiresome manual processes. It's AI
00:56:54
built into the system that runs your
00:56:55
business, affording you total
00:56:57
flexibility. Get ahead of the game and
00:56:59
put AI to work today with Netswuite. If
00:57:02
your revenues are at least in the seven
00:57:04
figures, get the free business guide,
00:57:05
Demystifying AI, at netsweet.com/pivot.
00:57:09
The guide is free to you at
00:57:10
netsweet.com/pivot.
00:57:11
netsweet.com/pivot.
00:57:15
>> Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction.
00:57:18
>> I think that
00:57:20
what was supposed to be the most
00:57:21
anticipated IPO, maybe with the expect
00:57:24
exception of kind of Space X, AI, Tesla,
00:57:28
the
00:57:29
>> whatever Tesla's not in there yet.
00:57:30
>> Probably the most anticipated was Open
00:57:33
the IPO of Open AI in 2026, sometime
00:57:36
this year, early 27. I don't think
00:57:38
that's going to happen. Um I think that
00:57:42
yeah I think this company is is now is
00:57:44
gone into full
00:57:47
um I don't call it panic mode but it
00:57:50
feels as if the m momentum has a habit
00:57:53
of creating more momentum and I think
00:57:54
the momentum is really negative around
00:57:56
this company
00:57:57
>> what happens where does it go what does
00:57:59
it do
00:58:00
>> well I think they'll substantially
00:58:03
um scale back there I mean have you
00:58:05
already seen the war have you already
00:58:06
seen Jensen Hang and Sam Alman who were
00:58:09
you
00:58:09
Bud buddies are already [ __ ] posting
00:58:11
each other,
00:58:12
>> right?
00:58:12
>> Claiming that the hundred billion dollar
00:58:14
agreement with was a framework and
00:58:16
they're actually not the hundred billion
00:58:17
investment.
00:58:18
>> May I just say you said that
00:58:21
>> well that was ridiculous. These circular
00:58:23
deals I'll give you a hundred billion.
00:58:25
I'll invest 100 billion if you invest
00:58:26
100 billion in our chips. And now and
00:58:28
now quote unquote Jensen's backtracking
00:58:30
and saying well it was just a framework
00:58:33
they couldn't justify it. Nvidia stock
00:58:35
has gone down because people are worried
00:58:37
about exposure to open AI. Right. So
00:58:38
what does OpenAI do? They start ship
00:58:40
posting Nvidia and saying no was because
00:58:42
their chips didn't live up to our
00:58:44
expectations. When when the biggest
00:58:47
player in the space Jensen Hong and kind
00:58:50
of the young gun Open AI start ship
00:58:52
posting each other and and they back out
00:58:55
of this hundred billion dollar
00:58:56
investment framework. That is a really
00:59:00
bad sign.
00:59:01
>> He kept using what was the word? We're
00:59:02
honored to be invited. What was he
00:59:05
saying? It was so funny. Yeah, but
00:59:06
they're both going on background now and
00:59:07
blaming each other.
00:59:08
>> Oh, totally. Utterly. Like, can I just
00:59:10
give people a lesson? When you hear
00:59:12
sources close to the situation, if they
00:59:14
were any closer to either of them,
00:59:15
they'd be on the other side of them.
00:59:17
>> That's them, right? The
00:59:20
>> So, I think I think the momentum the the
00:59:23
worm has turned. And it's not that
00:59:24
OpenAI isn't an unbelievable company
00:59:26
that could go public at like a $50
00:59:28
billion market capitalization. But the
00:59:29
problem is when you sell some investors
00:59:32
in at 250, 450, and then if he's able to
00:59:34
close this round at 850, they're not
00:59:37
willing to go public or let you have a
00:59:39
liquidity event that cuts there. What
00:59:41
happens in an IPO? Say he went public at
00:59:44
300 billion next year and said, "Okay,
00:59:45
the market isn't what we thought."
00:59:47
Unless there's a couple years where the
00:59:49
latest round of investors get so
00:59:51
fatigued they're willing to take a 60%
00:59:53
haircut. All of your shares, the last
00:59:55
round of investment has a preference,
00:59:58
meaning they they're the first money
01:00:00
out. So the 50 or 100 billion going in
01:00:01
at 850 doesn't want to give up their
01:00:04
liquidity preference and let them go
01:00:06
public if they're going public at less
01:00:07
than 850, which I think they would. So
01:00:10
your last round of investors become a
01:00:12
veto block for going public unless
01:00:14
you're going to go public at a valuation
01:00:16
greater than 850.
01:00:17
>> So what do they do? You haven't answered
01:00:19
my question.
01:00:20
>> They'll dramatic, in my opinion, they'll
01:00:22
dramatically scale back their capital,
01:00:24
their capex and they'll end up with a
01:00:26
much smaller, much less ambitious
01:00:28
amazing company that's only worth a
01:00:30
100red or 200 billion. It's only one of
01:00:31
the 30 most valuable companies in
01:00:34
America. Not the
01:00:35
>> get bought what? Well, that means
01:00:36
everyone else will get collapsed, right?
01:00:38
Or not. I think the whole my opinion if
01:00:40
you look at and I look at weird signals
01:00:42
the percentage of ads at the Super Bowl
01:00:44
right if you look at all this I think
01:00:47
there's a ton of anecdotal evidence
01:00:49
showing that while AI may live up to its
01:00:51
potential the market cap of the biggest
01:00:54
players this year is about to throw up
01:00:57
which isn't to say that similar in 2000
01:00:59
when the market cap of Amazon went down
01:01:00
95% it's still not going to be an
01:01:03
unbelievable company but I think we're
01:01:05
about to see a dramatic recalibration in
01:01:07
the markets which includes Open AAI's
01:01:09
IPO plans getting queered. Now, who's
01:01:11
going to take their place? And this is
01:01:13
the prediction.
01:01:14
>> Mhm.
01:01:15
>> The most impressive numbers hands down
01:01:17
that no one I wasn't expecting.
01:01:20
>> Khi's
01:01:23
year on year
01:01:24
>> and not Poly Market, right?
01:01:25
>> Well, Khi's Khi is actually of the two
01:01:29
the clean well-lit space of this I see.
01:01:32
Okay.
01:01:33
>> Of this marketplace, right? It's a
01:01:35
little Cali is CFTC regulated. It's also
01:01:39
in the US. It's peer-to-peer trading.
01:01:41
It's federally regulated. Um I have some
01:01:45
I don't have moral clarity around these
01:01:46
issues because I do think they tap into
01:01:48
the dopa of a young more risk aggressive
01:01:50
male brain. But just let me go straight
01:01:52
to the numbers here.
01:01:54
>> In 2026 or in this Super Bowl, right,
01:01:58
>> over a billion dollar in trading volume
01:02:01
on Cali. That's up 2,700%.
01:02:05
It was up 28fold this year. And you know
01:02:08
who's getting absolutely the [ __ ] kicked
01:02:10
out of them is Flutter is the gambling
01:02:13
sites.
01:02:15
They're killing these guys. The sports
01:02:17
market accounted for about 90% of Kow's
01:02:19
activity this month. And it's it's
01:02:22
having an incredible impact on
01:02:24
traditional gambling and sports book. Um
01:02:28
analysts have noted that Khu's ride ride
01:02:30
rise coincides with the underperformance
01:02:32
in major sports books stock prices draft
01:02:34
kings flutter as traders shift some
01:02:36
activity towards prediction markets and
01:02:39
with a venue that's easy to access
01:02:40
nationwide which koshi is even in states
01:02:43
without legal sports betting the firm is
01:02:45
attracting betterers who might otherwise
01:02:47
um have used traditional sports books.
01:02:49
So this is this company and my my
01:02:53
prediction is the following.
01:02:55
Open AI way to the downside doesn't get
01:02:58
public. Khi is about is going to be in
01:03:01
my opinion the kind of IPO we're all
01:03:04
trying to get into in Q2 of Q3 of this
01:03:06
year.
01:03:07
>> Kchi it is. All right. Well, that's
01:03:09
interesting. You've been sounding this
01:03:10
alarm for these companies. Interesting.
01:03:12
Fascinating. That's a big one, Scott.
01:03:14
That's a big one.
01:03:15
>> We'll see. Right.
01:03:16
>> Yeah. Anyway, we want to hear from you.
01:03:19
Send us your questions about business,
01:03:20
tech, or whatever's on your mind. Go to
01:03:21
nymag.com/pivot
01:03:23
to submit a question for the show or
01:03:25
call 85551 pivot. Uh elsewhere in the
01:03:28
Cara and Scott universe this week on
01:03:29
Profy Markets, Scott spoke with Esar
01:03:32
Prasad, professor of trade policy and
01:03:34
economics at Cornell University to
01:03:36
discuss why he thinks economics,
01:03:38
domestic politics, and geopolitics are
01:03:40
stuck in a doom loop. Doom loop. Let's
01:03:43
listen to a clip. Globalization used to
01:03:46
be seen as a positive sum game where
01:03:48
countries could benefit mutually from
01:03:50
trade and that would be an offset to
01:03:53
what is intrinsically the zero sum game
01:03:55
of geopolitics where one country can
01:03:57
gain influence only at the expense of
01:04:00
another. But now even globalization has
01:04:02
become seen as a zero sum game. So it
01:04:05
isn't offsetting the zero sum game of
01:04:07
geopolitics and worse some of the
01:04:10
negative dynamics of globalization have
01:04:12
started infecting domestic politics not
01:04:14
just in the US but in many other
01:04:16
countries.
01:04:17
>> God I feel smarter already my people
01:04:19
>> you know there's
01:04:22
professor um
01:04:23
>> Prasad that one of the things that
01:04:26
struck me and I said this
01:04:27
>> we graduated the same year from
01:04:29
undergraduate me from UCLA him from the
01:04:32
University of Madras.
01:04:33
>> Mhm. I graduated with a 2.27 GPA with an
01:04:37
incredible ability to make bongs out of
01:04:39
any household item.
01:04:40
>> He won a scholarship in India that
01:04:42
identified like one of the 50 smartest
01:04:44
kids of a billion kids.
01:04:46
>> And so what what do what does a guy
01:04:49
who's one of the 50 like he this guy
01:04:52
could walk into the Rose Bowl and take
01:04:54
the average IQ of those 80,000 people up
01:04:56
a couple points. That's how smart and
01:04:58
hardworking this man is. So what are we
01:04:59
doing to what are we saying to these
01:05:01
people now? Can you imagine a kid coming
01:05:02
out of the University of Memphis right
01:05:04
now in 2026? Is he going to go to Brown?
01:05:07
>> Yeah.
01:05:07
>> No, he's going to go to Miguel or he's
01:05:09
going to go to Instituta or he's going
01:05:11
to go to
01:05:11
>> INSEAD
01:05:12
>> or who knows maybe
01:05:14
>> maybe the University of Cordova in
01:05:16
Argentina. I mean,
01:05:17
>> speaking of doom loops, academic doom
01:05:20
loops.
01:05:20
>> We're the sports team that used to have
01:05:22
access to the number one draft at any
01:05:25
college in the world and we've said no,
01:05:27
we don't want
01:05:27
>> and now we just have Prof coming back to
01:05:30
the
01:05:32
Anyway, it's it sounds like a great
01:05:34
interview. I'll be listening to it. That
01:05:35
is the show. Thanks for listening to
01:05:37
Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe
01:05:39
to our YouTube channel. Uh we'll be back
01:05:41
next week.
