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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser
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>> and I'm Scott Galloway.
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>> Uh this is an emergency pod. We do these
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from time to time with news, especially
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if it's breaking and obviously what's
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happened over the weekend in Minnesota
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has been heinous in many ways, in all
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ways actually. Um so we had to jump on
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here to talk about the situation.
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Tensions are exploding in reaction to
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federal agents shooting and killing
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37year-old ICU nurse Alex uh Prey in
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Minneapolis on Saturday. This is the
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second fatal shooting by federal agents
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this month with Governor Tim Walls
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calling for Trump to halt ICE operations
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in the state. Meanwhile, Trump
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administration uh the Trump
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administration is trying to cast blame
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on the victim and local Democratic
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lawmakers. Border Patrol Command Gregory
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Bavino appeared on CNN's State of the
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Union with Dana Bash earlier. And here's
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what that tiny horrible man had to say.
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>> All of the video that we have seen shows
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him documenting it with his cell phone,
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which is a lawful thing to do. And the
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only time he seemed to interact with law
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enforcement is when they went after him
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when he was trying to help an individual
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who law enforcement pushed down. So
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where do you have the evidence to show
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that he was trying to impede that uh
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that law enforcement operation?
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>> Sure, Dana. First, he was there in the
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scene. He was in the scene actively
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impeding and assaulting law enforcement
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to the point.
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>> But that's not illegal. He wasn't he
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wasn't impeding it. He was filming it,
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which is a legal thing to do in the
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United States of America.
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>> Dan, let's let's don't freeze frame
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adjudicate this now.
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>> Let's freeze frame adjudicated. Everyone
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saw it from a hundred different angles.
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There was video everywhere. And uh this
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small little Himmler wannabe doesn't
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seem to understand that. Attorney
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General Pam Bonnie gave Tim Walls three
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conditions to quote restore the rule of
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law. She wants them to hand over the
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info about the state's welfare programs,
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grant access to state voter roles, and
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repeal sanctuary policies. Let's focus
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on the middle one, which we will. They
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want these voter roles uh because of the
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midterm elections. Let's talk about the
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Democratic response. Democrats are
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obviously in an uproar and AOC and
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others calling for Senate Democrats to
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block ICE spending this week. Democrats
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would have to shut down a large portion
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of the government in order to do that.
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They seem willing to do so.
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Representative Robin Kelly of Illinois
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is asking colleagues to sign uh onto her
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articles of impeachment against DHS
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Secretary Christy Nome. Meanwhile, Megan
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Kelly appeared to agree that ICE should
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get out of Minnesota, but she was just
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being awful. She tweeted at real Donald
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Trump should pull ICE out of Minnesota
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today and announced there'll be no more
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immigration enforcement in Minnesota at
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all. All illegals in the US are
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encouraged to move there. If any illegal
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is found outside of Minnesota and gets
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deported, they will never reply for
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re-entry. She is a cruel and tireless
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turmagant. Hours after this young man
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was killed, uh, Trump and Melania went
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ahead with a previously scheduled
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screening of her new documentary Melania
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at the White House. Guests included Tim
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Cook along with AMD CEO Lisa Sue, the
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CEO of Zoom, uh, and Mike Tyson and Tony
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Robbins. Strange group of people, but a
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lot of tech CEOs. Also Andy Jasse, the
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CEO of Amazon. In any case, a a really
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terrible uh day for the United States of
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America. Scott, your thoughts?
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>> Well, typically you'd have some you'd
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want to deescalate and say, "Let's wait
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till there's a full investigation, but
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unfortunately the institutions
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conducting these investigations now are
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no longer trusted."
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And with good reason, the American
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public doesn't believe that these
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investigations will be be fair
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investigations. So you have to turn to
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the, you know, kind of the frame
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adjudication.
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And what the frame shows is that one,
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this individual was clearly exercising
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just free speech. All free speech is not
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exempt.
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You know, if you incite violence,
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that's not free speech. But it's
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difficult to see how in any way this
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individual was inciting violence. He was
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just filming what was happening. He
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moved to help protect somebody or
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comfort them after they had been knocked
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down.
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Uh so his first amendment rights were
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clearly violated. Two, the second
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amendment is the right to bear arms. He
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was carrying a weapon which he had a
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legal license um for carry for. Uh the
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gun was removed from him. He did not
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take out the dum. He did not wave it at
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anybody. It was in his waistband. It was
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taken out. And then uh so his first and
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second amendment rights were violated in
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about 15 seconds. And then a couple of
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things that I noticed that were even
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more disturbing
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were one, when a gunshot goes off, these
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quote unquote trained federal agents
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scattered.
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You when your gun goes off, you're
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supposed to make sure the person you
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think is firing the gun, you look for
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their hands, you look for the gun. They
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did none of that. They scattered. and
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Representative Seth Molton, who's a
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veteran and I believe a Marine who
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served in I believe it was Iraq, said
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that if this had happened in the middle
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of a combat zone and a a combatant,
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enemy combatant who had been disarmed
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was treated this way, the officers and
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the enlisted men involved in that murder
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would be court marshaled. So the rules
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of engagement are now more reckless and
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more violent in the suburbs of
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Minneapolis than they are in Mogadishu
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during a war. So this has gone
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um so far
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and this notion that this has anything
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to do with the constitution. Everyone is
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now ignoring the constitution. The other
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word that comes to my mind is cowardice
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and that is Trump and Secretary Gnome
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are perpetrating violence under the
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oposis that it has something to do with
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immigration. They want a third party
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that will take the blame or the be the
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shock absorber for this depravity and
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that is an agency full of masked secret
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police. I mean they're not even taking
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responsibility for this violence.
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They're trying to keep it in arms.
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>> No, they said the victims were the ICE
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officers. That's what Gregory Abino said
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to Dana Bash who did a terrific job
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trying to
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take explain to him why he was lying
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essentially. But go ahead.
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>> What are your what are your thoughts on
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this character?
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>> Uh I just Scott it's uh this is
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repulsive and in every way on on every
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aspect of it the what what had happened
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there. I mean one one point I called
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these people incompetent. Everyone's
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like no they're evil in evil is
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incompetent. They're both evil and
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incompetent. Um and I don't throw around
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those things. I don't throw around Nazi
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tournaments very easily. But this is
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that's what it looks that's what it is.
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And especially even the outfit as Greg
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as Governor Nome pointed out with Greg
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Babino who is completely incompetent and
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also evil. And I don't use those terms
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lightly. I really don't. And I find when
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you when you throw them about. But this
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man was using a phone a phone to take to
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take pictures. And that's what he's
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allowed to do. He was peaceful. He was
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leaning down to help a woman who was
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shoved down by police who was doing
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nothing but exercising her right. They
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kept calling it a Today Todd Blanch,
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another terrible person in the
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administration and a pedophile
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protector. Let's just note that. Um was
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saying that that he was it was a riot.
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It wasn't by any means a riot. They were
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blaming the police of Minnesota. And I
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just interviewed the mayor of of of
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Minneapolis. They have 600 officers.
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There's 3,000 ICE uh there's 3,000 ICE
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uh members. They can't protect them,
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especially when they're behaving like
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thugs and attacking the citizens.
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They're there to protect the citizens,
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not the ICE, not the ICE force, which is
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enormous, and you can't do that. And
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they are trying to create violence. It's
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very obvious what they're trying to do.
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And then laying the blame on they
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there's literally there there's nothing
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I don't believe we're even arguing that
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this guy did anything. He didn't. and to
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and everyone can see it. And what was
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really astonishing to me was all the
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angles and the people and the citizens
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there putting themselves in harm's way
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to take these pictures, right? This
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woman in the pink jacket, there's a
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woman in a car. There's there's every
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angle of this thing. There's a woman in
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a car straight on. There's one across
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the street, there's one in front of him,
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there's one on the other side. These
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people don't understand. We see you. We
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see what you're doing. It is not. and to
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try to look at it any other way and
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especially because he was on the ground,
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you can absolutely see what happened and
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then the guy pulls out the gun and
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shoots him for no reason. There's and
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one of the things which was astonishing,
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one of the people taking the pictures
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said, "What did you just do? What did
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you just do?" And that is the qu what in
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the why in the world would you do that?
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There were six, seven people on this guy
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and it's I have to tell you one thing,
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the power of digital is really strong.
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You see, people see it like I I don't
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understand why these people don't think
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cell phones exist in this world. The
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second part is the silence from our
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business community, the silence from
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these people. They went to the White
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House last night. Could they just beg
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off like to go to the Melania screening
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which nobody wants to see? Could they
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say something publicly? Like I I just
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the the silence of our business people
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especially the tech people and then many
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and many people like Bill Aman as usual
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because you can't shut his diarrhea
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mouth could not help but blame everybody
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but who shot this man which were these
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officers. Um obviously Minnesota has
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moved this time because they learned
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from the first and I this is a murder is
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what this is. They learned from the
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first one that they tried to take
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evidence they scattered. as you said,
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you can't leave the scene of of an that
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some a shooting like that, a fatal
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shooting. And then the last thing I
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would say is the citizens of Minnesota,
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I'm wearing a a Minnesota Star Tribune.
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I have to say the press is doing a great
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job there. The Minnesota Star Tribune
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and others, these are citizens that are
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not going to take this [ __ ] And I I
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know you call for leaders, but we are
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the leaders, right? Citizens are the
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leaders, not our politicians. I will say
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the Democrats had, especially AOC,
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especially, you know, all of them were
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very strong about what was going on. The
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Minnesota
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>> people were actually quite under control
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over what's happening. Governor Walls, I
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thought, conducted himself really well.
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Uh the police officers uh of the state
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of in Minnesota are horrified. You can
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see that and they conducted themselves
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really well. The only people conducting
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themselves like the thugs and fascists
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they are are the Trump administration
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and they will not outlive they the shame
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will outlive them of what they've done
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and they don't care. So that's the only
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problem here.
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>> Yeah. In Switzerland last week there was
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a lot of talk about I thought how how
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can I take my time here and make it
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effective. So, I spent a lot of time
00:11:03
when I was on these panels talking about
00:11:04
how the Islamic Republic is executing
00:11:08
people on the street. And my colleague
00:11:09
Katherine Dylan reminded me, she said,
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"Scott, you realize that our government
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is executing people on the streets of
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Minneapolis right now."
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>> Which was a very puncturing point.
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>> Yeah.
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>> And just to, if it's okay with you, move
00:11:24
to potential ideas around how to
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>> counter ICE. Um, Timothy Snyder, I was I
00:11:31
always go to his feed and to Heather Cox
00:11:33
Richardson to try and find some
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>> amazing from them. Yeah, go ahead.
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>> Around this. And Timothy said something
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really powerful. He said, "If you're
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waiting," and this is my thought. I'm
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always kind of waiting for a democratic
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Jesus to pop up and lead us like a
00:11:46
Mandela to the promised land. And
00:11:49
typically real movement doesn't happen
00:11:51
from political parties. It happens from
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people
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>> absolutely
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>> or citizens. And protest is really
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powerful. It's very symbolic. But in
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this instance, I think it's actually
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quite I don't want to say it's not
00:12:02
effective, but I don't think the
00:12:04
administration cares. I don't think
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that's going to move the needle in the
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short run. A man the medium in the long
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run. I think what Governor Walls and
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some some politicians have said is more
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powerful and that is start making a list
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quite frankly and very publicly saying
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that the statute of limitations on
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murder is never and in exactly 2 years
00:12:24
and 11 months we're coming for you. I
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think we have to create new incentives
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here. And then something I'm spending a
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lot of time thinking about and trying to
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get some politicians on board with and
00:12:37
some public figures is the following.
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If you if you want to look at the
00:12:42
fastest political movement in history,
00:12:45
it was actually about exactly six years
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ago and that was 2020
00:12:52
when the GDP went down 31% because of
00:12:55
COVID. We had the greatest political
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movement in history in terms of actual
00:13:00
move to action. And my fear is that
00:13:03
every few years we protest, we make
00:13:05
signs, we chant, we gather, it feels
00:13:08
good, it looks great on CNN, and then
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nothing happens. If you want to
00:13:13
understand real power and the difference
00:13:15
between being right and being effective,
00:13:17
stop watching protests and start
00:13:20
watching uh gross domeic products,
00:13:23
specifically GDP. Uh Trump does not
00:13:25
respond to outrage. He responds to
00:13:27
markets. And that's not cynicism. It's
00:13:31
mechanics. I'm not talking about a labor
00:13:32
strike. This isn't unions, picket lines,
00:13:35
or collective bargaining. I'm talking
00:13:36
about something quieter, far more
00:13:39
unsettling to the system, and that is an
00:13:42
economic strike. A short-term
00:13:44
coordinated withdrawal from spending,
00:13:46
and maybe work, no marching, no slogans,
00:13:49
um just less. And
00:13:52
>> well, we forget they did that in
00:13:53
Minnesota. They had a day. The business
00:13:55
is closing.
00:13:55
>> It can't be a day. A day is annoyance.
00:13:57
It needs to be a week or a month. And it
00:13:58
needs to be national. The US economy is
00:14:01
27 trillion. That's 74 billion a day.
00:14:03
And here's our power, Cara. Our economy
00:14:07
is 70% consumer-driven.
00:14:09
Consumers actually have more power, not
00:14:11
in signs or in guns or even in their
00:14:13
vote right now. They have it in the
00:14:15
power of the purse. in that a very small
00:14:18
change in behavior could have an
00:14:20
enormous effect and that is
00:14:24
uh nothing in modern his American
00:14:26
history moves policy faster. Now marches
00:14:28
not speech is just math and then if you
00:14:33
think about what you could do here if
00:14:36
wealthy households took their spending
00:14:37
down 10% and middle class and lower
00:14:39
income households which have a difficult
00:14:41
time reducing their spend took it down
00:14:43
5%. you would take GDP negative almost
00:14:46
overnight
00:14:48
and then
00:14:51
it's hard because it requires
00:14:53
coordination. It's risky especially for
00:14:54
people living paycheck to paycheck. But
00:14:57
that's exactly why it works and that is
00:15:00
power fears withdrawal more than
00:15:01
resistance because resistance is noisy
00:15:04
but withdrawal is expensive and it's
00:15:08
it's a question around what actually
00:15:09
works and the history and the data I
00:15:11
believe are not ambiguous. when nothing
00:15:14
moves, uh, everyone listens. And that's
00:15:16
not ideology, it's economics. And that
00:15:19
you don't need permission to opt out.
00:15:21
And in a symptom, and in a system,
00:15:23
capitalism built entirely on
00:15:25
participation,
00:15:27
the most radical act in capitalism isn't
00:15:29
protest,
00:15:31
it's nonparticipation.
00:15:33
If you wanted the fastest blue line
00:15:35
path, and there might even be a simpler
00:15:37
way, I believe if you could convince
00:15:40
America, the entire economy now is built
00:15:42
on AI. If you could convince
00:15:46
a bunch of Americans to cancel their
00:15:49
chat GPT or OpenAI accounts and all of a
00:15:52
sudden OpenAI had to announce that their
00:15:55
subscriptions had fallen off a cliff,
00:15:58
that would ripple into Nvidia. That
00:16:00
would ripple into Microsoft.
00:16:02
And these are the people that Trump
00:16:04
cares about. And this is what the S&P
00:16:06
This is what the economy cares about.
00:16:08
>> I I say this point. I don't I don't
00:16:09
agree with you about protests. I think
00:16:11
they do. They It's all part of the same
00:16:12
package. It's an aggressive media who
00:16:15
follows this and reports on things. It
00:16:16
is these protests because I do think
00:16:18
people putting their their lives on the
00:16:20
line in the street matters. I think it
00:16:22
does. It has
00:16:23
>> I don't mean to diminish it. I worry
00:16:24
it's more cinematic than effective
00:16:26
because I don't think the Trump
00:16:27
administration cares.
00:16:28
>> Different in this new environment of
00:16:30
video everywhere. I do think it is
00:16:31
effective and I do think it
00:16:33
>> definitely from a policing and an
00:16:34
accountability.
00:16:35
>> Correct. And it changes people's minds
00:16:37
because people are I mean
00:16:39
people are are it's horrifying and
00:16:42
everyone we can see you. We see you is a
00:16:45
really powerful thing. I think the media
00:16:47
has to step up and there everyone folks
00:16:49
there's a reason these billionaires uh
00:16:51
right-wingers need to own this stuff
00:16:53
because they're trying to control the
00:16:54
message. Absolutely. No question.
00:16:56
They're trying to even hand it. Um, I
00:16:59
was told by someone uh uh at CBS,
00:17:02
they're like, "You could watch this and
00:17:03
if you were pro MAGA, you'd like it, and
00:17:05
if you were anti-MAGA, you'd like it."
00:17:07
And that's how we want it to be. That's
00:17:09
a terrible thing to to try to do. There
00:17:11
is truthful, not neutral is the way um
00:17:14
the press should be acting right now. Uh
00:17:16
I thought I think I think a lot of them
00:17:18
have been woken up into this in a much
00:17:20
more instead of a well, what is your
00:17:22
thoughts here, Scott [ __ ] Jennings?
00:17:24
>> Like that's enough. That's enough of
00:17:26
that. Seriously. Um, there's no thoughts
00:17:29
here about shooting someone and there's
00:17:31
no I was listening I often listen to
00:17:34
comics during times like this because I
00:17:35
think they have the they have they get
00:17:37
to the heart of it in a really effective
00:17:39
way and Joshu Johnson who I've
00:17:41
interviewed is an amazing young comic.
00:17:43
And he said I I sent this to you. It was
00:17:46
this is an argument about legality
00:17:48
versus morality.
00:17:49
>> Um, and if you the idea that Todd Blanch
00:17:53
was sitting there saying well it was a
00:17:55
riot. Well, he, you know, he was
00:17:57
resisting. If we get into arguments with
00:17:59
these people about what we can see with
00:18:01
our eyes, it is we lose, right? Because
00:18:04
they're going to find some reason that
00:18:06
this young man deserved to get shot or
00:18:08
the or Renee Good deserved it cuz she
00:18:10
was mouthy, like cuz she wouldn't move
00:18:12
her car. Um, they try to twist
00:18:14
everything. And so, you're not going to
00:18:16
win in a in a face-to-face argument with
00:18:18
these people. You're going to win by
00:18:20
marching. I agree. And economic
00:18:22
resistance is critical here. Um, the
00:18:25
problem was with a lot of people with
00:18:26
Tim Cook being at the White House. And
00:18:28
by the way, Tim, I like you very much,
00:18:30
but Steve Jobs would be ashamed of you.
00:18:33
I know he would be ashamed of you. It's
00:18:35
it's a grotesque way to end what has
00:18:37
been a very successful uh career as a
00:18:39
CEO. You could have walked away. You
00:18:42
could have walked away. Shareholders are
00:18:44
not everything. The Apple brand stands
00:18:45
for more. So, a lot of people wanted to
00:18:48
give up their iPhones. Like, I'm going
00:18:49
to give up. Let me just tell you the
00:18:51
founder of Google is dating a mega
00:18:54
influencer and is quite right-wing now.
00:18:55
So there's nowhere to go unfortunately.
00:18:57
And that's the problem is we have been
00:18:59
held captive by these men boys who are
00:19:02
now deciding they want to dabble in
00:19:04
fascism or at least turn a blind eye to
00:19:07
it. And so I I part of me is like what
00:19:09
do you do here? Right? What do you what
00:19:14
>> what I'm suggesting is and again I've
00:19:16
struggled with this my whole life. the
00:19:18
difference between being right and being
00:19:19
effective and we're angry. And I get it.
00:19:21
Protesting is powerful. Uh promising
00:19:24
them that there will be an
00:19:26
accountability. And I've said this, I
00:19:27
think there should be something
00:19:28
equivalent to the Nermberg trials after
00:19:30
this is all over.
00:19:31
>> I agree.
00:19:32
>> And to make it clear that once we're
00:19:33
back in power, which we will be, this is
00:19:36
going to happen. And the statute of
00:19:37
limitations on murder is
00:19:39
>> zero.
00:19:39
>> Never.
00:19:40
>> Yeah.
00:19:40
>> However, it's the boring [ __ ] that moves
00:19:42
the needle. And here's something really
00:19:43
boring that would stop this. If we could
00:19:46
convince half of Americans who are
00:19:47
planning to buy an iPhone in the next 60
00:19:49
days to not buy it, just put it off and
00:19:52
we could get 10% of existing Chat GPT
00:19:55
subscribers to cancel their
00:19:56
subscription, this ends.
00:19:58
>> Mhm.
00:19:59
>> These are the people that he cares
00:20:00
about, and this is about the market.
00:20:02
Look at the only time he's blinked when
00:20:04
the Japanese bond market started taking
00:20:06
our 10-year yields up and when tariffs
00:20:09
took the markets down. This is how he
00:20:12
responds. It's not cinematic. It's not
00:20:14
romantic. It's not going to be written
00:20:16
up in great history novels, but if you
00:20:18
could figure out a way to basically kick
00:20:21
a small number of companies related to
00:20:23
the tech economy that are account for
00:20:25
40% of the S&P right now and who are the
00:20:27
people he cares about, if if all of a
00:20:30
sudden if you took all of your money out
00:20:31
of any JP Morgan affiliated bank and
00:20:33
transferred it to a local regional bank,
00:20:37
if you cancelled all of your streaming
00:20:39
media platforms, if you cancelled OpenAI
00:20:42
and Anthropic and you said I am not
00:20:44
upgrading my Apple phone and there was a
00:20:46
real movement that registered and they
00:20:48
had to disclose it
00:20:50
>> in their earnings calls. This [ __ ] would
00:20:52
come to an end pronto.
00:20:53
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's an interesting I they
00:20:55
have played along with this Trump stuff
00:20:57
for a very long time much farther than
00:20:59
>> because you're right they're all about
00:21:00
sharehold they we can't shame them. You
00:21:02
cannot shame them. Yeah.
00:21:04
>> The ghost of Steve Jobs is not going to
00:21:05
shame them. The only thing these people
00:21:07
care about
00:21:09
>> the only thing these people care about
00:21:11
is whether or not their stock goes down.
00:21:13
That's it. And if their stock goes down,
00:21:15
they're going to stop. They're not only
00:21:16
going to stop showing up to Melania
00:21:17
documentaries and giving him inscribed
00:21:20
hard disk drives. They're going to
00:21:22
finally find their testicles and come
00:21:23
out and speak out against this guy and
00:21:25
call him and say, "You need to you need
00:21:26
to call this [ __ ] off." And the SNP is
00:21:29
going to go down and then everyone's
00:21:31
going to have their hair on fire.
00:21:33
>> Well, one of the things I've noticed is
00:21:34
really interesting. I I this is the last
00:21:36
time I'm talking about the the polling
00:21:37
is disastrous on this for Trump. His
00:21:40
polling is disastrous. Why haven't
00:21:43
Republicans found their like s like from
00:21:46
a numbers point of view, right? Like
00:21:49
away from all of it, if you want to
00:21:50
argue, whatever you want to do and to
00:21:52
shame yourself and your children, by the
00:21:54
way. Um, by the way, there were several
00:21:57
children of some of these people that
00:21:59
are like, "Call me. I know all about my
00:22:01
[ __ ] [ __ ] dad and I will talk to
00:22:03
the press, by the way." Which I think is
00:22:05
delicious. Um, but what what the polling
00:22:09
is so obvious here. What? Why? It's so
00:22:13
like in the direction that is not the
00:22:16
way these Republicans want to go.
00:22:18
>> But there's I mean, if you really want
00:22:20
to distill it down and you bring the
00:22:22
cowardice here, there are 47 Democratic
00:22:26
senators. If 20 individuals, 20
00:22:31
uh 20 Republican senators marched up to
00:22:34
his office and said, "You either stop
00:22:36
this [ __ ] now or we vote yes on the
00:22:40
impeachment that they will propose."
00:22:44
They could do it behind the scenes. It
00:22:45
takes 20 of them, 20 of the 53. and
00:22:48
they've decided that those 20 of 355
00:22:51
million Americans, the vast majority who
00:22:53
are really rattled by this, can't find
00:22:56
the backbone to get together and march
00:22:58
up to the White House behind the scenes
00:23:00
and say, "Stop this now. Stop it now."
00:23:03
And one of the most disappointing things
00:23:04
about all of this is that clearly these
00:23:06
senators, quite frankly, feel they have
00:23:09
public support for not doing anything.
00:23:11
Mhm. Or they feel they don't. But
00:23:14
>> all you would need all you would need is
00:23:16
20 of them to go to the White House and
00:23:18
said if this isn't handled in 72 hours
00:23:21
or there's not real movement or real um
00:23:24
withdrawal here and the Democrats bring
00:23:28
up impeachment hearings, we're going to
00:23:30
be a yes.
00:23:31
>> Yeah. No.
00:23:32
>> And that we need 20 we need 20 people
00:23:35
here. 20 to represent the 345 million
00:23:39
Americans and they're nowhere to be
00:23:41
found. And the disappointing thing is
00:23:42
they have done the calculus and have
00:23:44
decided they have enough support in
00:23:45
their districts, the silent majority,
00:23:48
that they don't feel they need to do it.
00:23:50
>> Yeah. I think one of the things the last
00:23:51
thing I would say is we're playing on
00:23:53
their field. They want this to be about
00:23:55
chaos, not about affordability, about um
00:23:58
the worst life, about their incredible
00:24:01
um uh corruption and money grab,
00:24:04
including the tech CEOs. They want it to
00:24:07
be about a poor man getting shot on the
00:24:09
streets. Um and I would last like to
00:24:12
call out Steven Miller, who is in the
00:24:14
center of this. We always focus on Trump
00:24:17
as we often focus on the top people, but
00:24:19
Steven Miller uh like a man named
00:24:22
Benettson, he was the one who created
00:24:24
the internment camps Japanese Hinrich
00:24:26
Himmler in the in the in the Nazi
00:24:28
regime. This is what he is. And he he of
00:24:33
course Trump gets the most of the blame
00:24:35
being the top at the top. But people
00:24:37
like Steven Miller uh will go down in
00:24:39
history as evil um has blood on his
00:24:43
hands um and should be jailed at the
00:24:46
very end of this. And you're absolutely
00:24:47
right. I do want to make one more point
00:24:49
and I think Saturday Night Live did this
00:24:51
really well. Um, these are white people
00:24:53
getting killed and this is something the
00:24:55
uh African-American peace talked about
00:24:57
the the brutality they get in the things
00:24:59
and I thought if you want to look at
00:25:00
anything there was a terrific um skit on
00:25:04
it about that uh which I thought was
00:25:06
quite effective. Let's not forget to
00:25:08
note that. Um in any case before we go
00:25:11
Alex Py's parents um said in a statement
00:25:14
it was the most dignified thing I've
00:25:15
ever I wouldn't know what to do if this
00:25:17
had happened to my any of my children.
00:25:19
Please get the truth out about our son.
00:25:21
He was a good man. And with that in
00:25:22
mind, I want to play a a clip of uh Alex
00:25:25
in his role as an ICU nurse. He was uh
00:25:28
serving veterans, honoring a deceased
00:25:30
veteran. Let's watch.
00:25:32
>> Today, we remember that freedom is not
00:25:34
free. We have to work at it, nurture it,
00:25:36
protect it, and even sacrifice for it.
00:25:39
May we never forget and always remember
00:25:42
our brothers and sisters who have served
00:25:44
so that we may enjoy the gift of
00:25:45
freedom. So in this moment we remember
00:25:48
and give thanks for their dedication and
00:25:50
selfless service to our nation in the
00:25:52
cause of our freedom. In this solemn
00:25:54
hour we render our honor and our
00:25:56
gratitude.
00:26:12
Yeah, I think that just about says it.
00:26:14
Freedom is not free.
00:26:16
Yeah, I hope I you're right. This like
00:26:19
this is just so rattling on so so many
00:26:21
levels, but
00:26:24
um Heather Cox Richardson has also said
00:26:25
we face darker times and I'd be shocked
00:26:27
if at some point there isn't a future
00:26:29
president that gives um Alex the same
00:26:32
type of dignified sendoff that he gave
00:26:34
that veteran. I do think this is a
00:26:36
turning point.
00:26:37
>> Um incredibly upsetting. And this isn't
00:26:40
about I can already see what's going to
00:26:42
happen. and they're going to come out
00:26:43
and acknowledge a tiny bit. They'll say,
00:26:46
"Yes, we've had to scale up ICE because
00:26:49
of because of the massive wave invasion
00:26:52
and they do need more training." And
00:26:54
that's like saying that the guards at
00:26:56
DACA needed more training.
00:26:57
>> Yeah.
00:26:58
>> This is a a systemic structural
00:27:00
depravity from from straight from the
00:27:02
president and his sick of fans who are
00:27:04
unqualified and also seem to wade in
00:27:07
this type of cruel and strange behavior.
00:27:10
And to the citizens of Minnesota, we
00:27:12
thank you. Um, you have done, keep doing
00:27:15
it and we thank you. Um, you are
00:27:18
fighting the fight that's critical,
00:27:19
including uh the sacrifices you make.
00:27:22
Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
00:27:23
listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and
00:27:25
subscribe to our YouTube channel. Uh,
00:27:27
we'll be back with a full show on
00:27:29
Tuesday. And Scott, thank you very much.
00:27:32
>> Thank you, Cara.
