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This is going to be the moment when Sam
00:00:03
Alman quite frankly [ __ ] the bed.
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>> Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:13
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:15
Network. I'm Cara Swisser
00:00:17
>> and I'm Scott Galloway.
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>> To explain for listeners, Scott has a
00:00:20
new background in his studio and guess
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what? I'm not in it.
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>> Oh, I have no idea what you're talking
00:00:25
about. Oh, this
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>> this
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>> the metaphor
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>> the metaphor the metaphor I would use is
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that you're my first wife and these are
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Bellar Russian hookers who I have
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>> I don't see any pivot there's no like me
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going like this what is happening
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>> uh do you want the honest truth or am I
00:00:44
supposed to be snarky around this
00:00:46
>> whatever either one it's probably a bad
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explanation
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>> uh no I'm very focused on enterprise
00:00:52
value and um priv
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Vox owns a piece of Pivot.
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>> No, we do. But go ahead. Go ahead.
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>> Well, we we own it, but Vox everyone the
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thing I hate about the corporate
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structure and ownership of Pivot is that
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everyone has veto authority, but no one
00:01:06
has control. I like having control. And
00:01:09
as you know, about 5 years ago, I
00:01:10
started launching my own pods.
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And quite frankly, it's your pivot has
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the biggest reach.
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>> Mhm.
00:01:19
>> Um
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>> my pivot. Now it's my pivot. It's like
00:01:22
our children, your children. Go ahead.
00:01:25
>> But I'm very focused on um trying to
00:01:28
create
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>> distinct enterprise value that I have
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control over. So pivot
00:01:33
>> pivot is the biggest and the best and
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kind of your firstborn and I I love it
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and I'm fond of you.
00:01:38
>> But in terms of trying to build
00:01:39
enterprise value, I'm focused on the
00:01:41
prof pods because I control it. And let
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me tell you, you're the same way. You
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have on with car.
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>> I just have on. That's all. But go
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ahead.
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>> Well, but control is an addictive
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substance. Yes.
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>> And I like making and quite frankly we
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get we make a lot of money from pivot
00:01:58
but it's very difficult to figure out a
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path to enterprise value because Fox
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because Vox
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>> kind of controls or semicontrols the IP.
00:02:06
So I'm just very honestly very focused
00:02:08
on building enterprise value around the
00:02:11
plethora of podcasts we are developing
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here.
00:02:13
>> Let me make an argument. They don't
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actually control it. We can do whatever
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we mostly do whatever we want. You know
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that it's it's me.
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>> No. or it's going to be very difficult
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for us to sell pivot for a [ __ ] ton of
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money and that's the business that I'm
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in.
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>> Well, well, in a couple of years we can
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certainly correct.
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>> Yeah, I guess the terms of the agreement
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are the IP turns back.
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>> It's just me that's your problem.
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>> No, I don't I I like working with
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partners. I've always had partners in my
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business. I think that when I advise
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young entrepreneurs, I'm being serious.
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>> Who with a partner? Because the most
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rewarding thing in I think the most
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rewarding thing in life is to raise kids
00:02:48
>> with a competent person that you love
00:02:50
and and also to build economic security
00:02:52
with someone you care about. It's just
00:02:55
I think that is really rewarding. I also
00:02:57
think it's much more rewarding to build
00:02:58
businesses
00:02:59
>> with someone else. I think one of the
00:03:01
most rewarding things about Pivot is you
00:03:02
and I have built it together and
00:03:03
occasionally we get on the phone and we
00:03:05
just bask in our success and it's really
00:03:07
fun. Mhm.
00:03:08
>> The way I describe it is inevitably when
00:03:11
I travel because I I'm usually on a
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corporation's dime. I stay at these
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amazing places and inevitably if I'm
00:03:17
when I'm alone, I get upgraded to
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literally the presidential suite at the
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George Sank in Paris.
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>> But if you're in it alone,
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>> it's like it didn't happen. It it just
00:03:27
doesn't mean anything. So,
00:03:29
>> I do think building businesses I've
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always had partners. My partner at Prop
00:03:33
Media is Katherryn Dylan, who I've
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worked with for 15 years. My partner at
00:03:36
Pivot is you and to a lesser extent Jim
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Bankoff. The But yeah, the most
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rewarding thing is building something
00:03:43
with a partner. But with respect to the
00:03:45
pictures behind me,
00:03:47
>> I want to set PropG uh up in a corporate
00:03:50
structure position such that I can sell
00:03:52
it for a [ __ ] ton of money
00:03:53
>> to an old media company that's panicking
00:03:55
that they're not in the fastest growing
00:03:57
out supported medium.
00:03:58
>> Is that too much information? Oh, and
00:04:01
then what are you going to do with your
00:04:02
first marriage pivot that got you all
00:04:04
that? That got you?
00:04:06
>> I I'm still here. I'm here.
00:04:07
>> What made you attractive to Russian
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[ __ ] What? What?
00:04:11
>> I take you to the Olive Garden every
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Thursday night. When we get drunk at a
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convention, we might have some bad sex,
00:04:17
>> right?
00:04:18
>> But, you know, I'm still here. I'm still
00:04:20
here. I'm hanging around until the kids
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go to college.
00:04:22
>> Oh, man.
00:04:23
>> Until Taylor and Zoe go off to college.
00:04:25
>> Uhhuh. Uhhuh. You know, I I got to be
00:04:28
honest, G, at this point in my life.
00:04:30
>> Yeah.
00:04:31
>> It's like this this uh resistance
00:04:33
subscribe. A lot of people reached out
00:04:35
to me and said, "Why didn't you organize
00:04:36
with these people?" I'm like, "The idea
00:04:37
>> I've heard that. I've gotten a lot of
00:04:38
calls from people."
00:04:39
>> The idea of getting a bunch of activists
00:04:42
and liberal uh media figures on the
00:04:45
phone and trying to get consensus sounds
00:04:48
like my worst [ __ ] nightmare.
00:04:49
>> Yeah, I got that from like a dozen
00:04:51
people. Who Who was the last one? Katie
00:04:53
Kirk. Katie Kirk. I
00:04:54
>> Yeah, Katie reached out to me. And to be
00:04:56
honest,
00:04:57
>> they're right. But my view is
00:04:58
>> I'm a ready fire in guy. I'm going to do
00:05:00
what I can do. I've got a ton of
00:05:02
momentum and then
00:05:03
>> you do your thing and I'll support you.
00:05:05
But the idea of getting on the phone
00:05:07
with all of these people to decide
00:05:08
whether Netflix should be on the list or
00:05:10
not.
00:05:11
>> That's just not my style.
00:05:12
>> I know that. I know it. I Everyone was
00:05:14
like, "Why do you do that?" I'm like,
00:05:14
"Cuz he doesn't like you." Like I don't
00:05:16
know. He just wants it.
00:05:18
>> No, it's not that I don't like these
00:05:19
people. It's like I would rather take a
00:05:21
leadership.
00:05:22
>> No business I've ever started made any
00:05:24
sense.
00:05:24
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:25
>> But my and not only that
00:05:27
>> thing, this goes to a deeper spiritual
00:05:29
thing. One of the things I don't like
00:05:30
about getting older,
00:05:32
>> I used to be more fearless when I was
00:05:34
younger. I used to call people I wanted
00:05:36
to meet and I used to approach people. I
00:05:40
used to go to crash parties I wasn't
00:05:43
invited to. And now I'm just sort of
00:05:46
recently heckling from the cheap seats.
00:05:47
I have very strong opinions about
00:05:49
everything, but I'm doing less. And I
00:05:52
want to move back to taking risks and
00:05:53
actually doing [ __ ] and risking public
00:05:55
failure because I think that has been
00:05:59
other than being born a white
00:06:00
heterosexual male in the 60s and the
00:06:02
irrational passion for my well-being of
00:06:04
my mother. The thing the reason I am
00:06:05
somewhat successful is I've never been
00:06:07
afraid of public failure. Yeah.
00:06:09
>> And I've gotten more Speaking of which
00:06:10
I've gotten more afraid as I've gotten
00:06:11
older. I want to get more I want to get
00:06:13
into the game. I want I want to get back
00:06:15
on the You'll see what happens when you
00:06:17
leave me. Anyway, I don't really care. I
00:06:18
have other things I can do. Um,
00:06:20
>> I'm leaving you. I still returned your
00:06:22
angry text messages at 2 a.m.
00:06:24
>> Guess who called me the other night?
00:06:26
You, cuz. Cuz you wanted to chitty chat
00:06:28
with your favorite person on the planet.
00:06:29
But let me inedible and I was bored. No
00:06:31
one else would talk to me. I had to call
00:06:33
someone in Eastern Standard Time because
00:06:34
everyone else was asleep.
00:06:37
>> So, no, but we've been sharing you've
00:06:38
been sharing, speaking of looking
00:06:40
ridiculous, what why why were you in a
00:06:42
fur coat looking like a unsuccessful
00:06:45
pimp for your resistant unsubscribe?
00:06:47
That made me laugh my ass off, I have to
00:06:49
say, with a hat.
00:06:51
>> Tell me where it's where are you right
00:06:52
now. Give me a quick update and then
00:06:54
we've got a lot to talk about today.
00:06:56
>> So, I I like I think the truth has a
00:06:57
nice ring to it. Out of the gates, it
00:06:59
was bigger than I expected. I got to
00:07:01
about 100,000 150,000 uniques a day. It
00:07:05
has leveled off and it's not growing and
00:07:06
I'm not hearing from as many CEOs. I've
00:07:08
been doing some research
00:07:10
>> around how do you sustain a movement
00:07:12
like this and one of them was
00:07:14
>> join with people. Go ahead.
00:07:17
The hole is great on the sum of its
00:07:18
parts. I will take over this as island
00:07:20
on my own. I'm like one of those
00:07:22
Japanese soldiers in the hills of the
00:07:24
Philippines 20 years after the war has
00:07:25
ended terrorizing everybody.
00:07:28
>> Yeah.
00:07:28
>> No, but this there was a study done out
00:07:30
of Kellogg and it found that it's
00:07:32
actually not economic damage. It's
00:07:34
public shaming visav the media. It's
00:07:36
media attention. And so I've been going
00:07:38
on CNN once or twice a day. I was on MSN
00:07:41
Now. I've been on NPR. I'm about to go
00:07:43
on
00:07:43
>> You need to go on Fox. Yeah, I'm
00:07:46
probably going to go on Fox. I mean, I'm
00:07:48
like you. This is going to sound
00:07:49
arrogant, but it's true. I can get on
00:07:51
any network any day of the week. And
00:07:53
>> I get it.
00:07:53
>> And what's interesting, though, is when
00:07:55
I do, and I'll come back to the when I
00:07:57
do these crazy unchained,
00:08:00
you know, weird, he's definitely not
00:08:02
running for president now videos.
00:08:05
>> Uh, they get about five or six
00:08:06
hundred,000 to a million views. And when
00:08:08
I go on CNN prime time, I get 3 to
00:08:10
400,000.
00:08:12
So, the power of social is so powerful.
00:08:15
And what I find about social is it's a
00:08:17
chance to be your spirit animal. And
00:08:20
people love that. People love I went up
00:08:23
to
00:08:24
>> I went up to, you know, my partner's
00:08:26
closet. I grabbed a fur coat and a
00:08:27
ridiculous hat because I was going to
00:08:29
talk about land.
00:08:30
>> Your hat. Stop pretending it's your hat.
00:08:33
>> What's that?
00:08:33
>> It's your hat and coat. But go ahead.
00:08:34
Well, I like to spend $1,600 at Kimosabi
00:08:36
in Aspen for a hat that I look like
00:08:39
Billy the Special Child, who's the
00:08:40
latest the latest winner of the
00:08:42
Makea-Wish Foundation in El Paso, Texas.
00:08:44
>> Oh, you look so ridiculous.
00:08:46
>> I look totally [ __ ] ridiculous.
00:08:47
>> [ __ ] ridiculous. Anyway, where are we
00:08:50
going? Very briefly, Resisted
00:08:51
Unsubscribe. We have a lot to talk about
00:08:53
today. There's so much
00:08:55
>> So, a lot of the organizations that do
00:08:57
actually organize, Defiance and
00:08:59
Indivisible,
00:09:01
um I'm coordinating with now. Uh, I'm
00:09:04
trying to reignite the momentum and I'm
00:09:08
I'm going on a bunch of public media and
00:09:11
I'm hearing it is in I mean granted I
00:09:14
hear from people who are supportive, but
00:09:16
I'm hearing from high school kids saying
00:09:18
I'm trying to get my entire senior class
00:09:20
to unsubscribe from Spotify. Will you do
00:09:22
a Zoom? So, I'm I'm trying to I hate to
00:09:25
admit it, but I'm trying to The worst
00:09:27
thing what's even worse than fighting
00:09:29
with your allies is fighting without
00:09:30
them. So, I'm trying to do a better job
00:09:32
of
00:09:32
>> Yeah. reaching out, which I hate.
00:09:34
>> I know. But you're gonna have to,
00:09:36
sweetie. You got it. Takes a village.
00:09:38
>> It's It's kind of leveled out and I need
00:09:41
to reestablish.
00:09:42
>> Yeah, it's a good idea. People got
00:09:44
excited about your good idea, right? And
00:09:46
we'll talk about the Washington Post
00:09:47
later because I've gotten 900 calls
00:09:49
about that. People are back to
00:09:51
>> Well, you know, the Washington Post and
00:09:52
and journalists are just so [ __ ]
00:09:54
precious. You guys should precious.
00:09:56
Scott, I need you to stop. 300 people
00:09:58
are fired yesterday.
00:10:00
>> You you literally 300 people are fired.
00:10:01
I'm going to slap you back to last
00:10:03
Sunday. But first, let's first stop.
00:10:04
We'll get to the Washington Post and you
00:10:06
better collect yourself cuz I'll slap
00:10:08
you. I will. I'll slap you back to last.
00:10:09
>> What's the dynamic here? I say something
00:10:11
stupid and then you say and then you
00:10:12
come in with your warriors of wokeness
00:10:14
and everyone's like, I love car.
00:10:17
>> It's not warriors of wokeness. 300
00:10:18
people lost their jobs. You can have a
00:10:20
little empathy.
00:10:21
>> 20,000 people lost their jobs at UPS.
00:10:23
>> You know what the we owe the Washington
00:10:25
debt of gratitude for the stuff they did
00:10:27
for many, many years, you know.
00:10:29
>> That's right. whose parents put them
00:10:30
through Sarah Lawrence and they're more
00:10:32
precious than everybody else.
00:10:33
>> They're not more precious. It's still
00:10:35
important. It doesn't matter. You don't
00:10:36
have to stack rank people misery.
00:10:39
>> Come on. That that's not true. I'm not
00:10:40
doing that. But we should talk about it
00:10:43
because I do have some thoughts on it
00:10:44
and I know you get to. But first, we're
00:10:46
going to talk about anthropics.
00:10:47
Something really kind of fun. Um it's
00:10:49
taking aim at Open AI and chat GPD with
00:10:51
a series of Super Bowl ads poking fun.
00:10:54
It it is the perfect satire at recent
00:10:56
news that ads are coming to chat uh GPT.
00:10:59
I want to play one of the anthropic ads.
00:11:00
All of which, there's four of them, I
00:11:02
think, that feature a young man visiting
00:11:03
a therapist to talk about his mom. Let's
00:11:05
watch.
00:11:06
>> How do I communicate better with my mom?
00:11:12
>> Great question. Improved communication
00:11:14
with your mom can bring you closer. Here
00:11:16
are some techniques you can try. Start
00:11:19
by listening. Really hear what she's
00:11:21
trying to say underneath her words.
00:11:24
Build conversation from points of
00:11:26
agreement. Find a connection through
00:11:28
shared activity, perhaps a nature walk.
00:11:32
Or if the relationship can't be fixed,
00:11:35
find emotional connection with other
00:11:37
older women on Golden Encounters, the
00:11:39
mature dating site that connects
00:11:41
sensitive cubs with Roaring Cougars.
00:11:46
>> What?
00:11:48
>> The tagline appears on the screen at the
00:11:50
end that says, "Adds are coming to AI,
00:11:51
but not to Claude." Uh they've struck a
00:11:54
nerve with Sam Alman, the CEO of uh
00:11:56
OpenAI. Sam posted on X. The ads made
00:11:58
him laugh and then went on to share a
00:11:59
novalicized rant as Techrunch put it. He
00:12:02
argued the campaign was dishonest and
00:12:04
misrepresented how chat GBT would ever
00:12:06
use ads. Oh my god, [ __ ] them if you
00:12:07
can't take a joke. I think these ads are
00:12:10
brilliant. They actually the way they
00:12:11
depict um chat bots is perfect. That
00:12:15
pause, the smile, the kind of
00:12:19
you know lowest common denominator
00:12:21
advice. But you these are great branding
00:12:23
as you told me. So tell me as a Mr.
00:12:25
Brands what do you think about these?
00:12:28
>> Uh this is genius and this will be seen
00:12:29
as the pivotal moment for when in 12
00:12:31
months anthropic is more valuable than
00:12:33
open AI. This is a definition of
00:12:36
intelligent branding. And one construct
00:12:38
or vehicle for great branding is you
00:12:40
ladder the competition.
00:12:42
Well the way you ladder the competition
00:12:44
to try and zero in on the soft tissues.
00:12:46
You go we're this, they're this. And
00:12:47
then you say okay is this point of
00:12:48
differentiation
00:12:50
uh truly different? Are we really
00:12:51
different this way? Two, does anyone
00:12:53
care? Is it relevant? And three, can we
00:12:54
own it? Is it sustainable? So, in this
00:12:57
instance, they said, "All right, uh,
00:12:59
we're not going to have ads. Is that
00:13:00
different?" Yes, chat GPT is having ads.
00:13:03
That's truly differentiated. Is it
00:13:04
relevant? Yeah, it is relevant because
00:13:06
you're providing your most intimate
00:13:07
information. There's a memory around AI
00:13:10
and the idea that it's not giving you
00:13:12
the best answer, but an answer it can
00:13:13
monetize is really uncomfortable for
00:13:16
people. And then, is it sustainable?
00:13:18
mostly unless open AAI which is a
00:13:21
nonzero chance they might backtrack on
00:13:23
this but basically this is the perfect
00:13:25
branding it's differentiated it's
00:13:27
relevant to consumers and it's
00:13:29
sustainable and the execution here is
00:13:31
just gorgeous it's just beautiful this
00:13:35
occasionally like when Hyundai came out
00:13:37
with their 7-year warranty ad that
00:13:39
changed the complexion of Hyundai
00:13:41
occasionally there's an ad campaign that
00:13:43
literally changes everything they're
00:13:45
fewer and fewer because people don't
00:13:47
take advertising as seriously. They take
00:13:49
real time innovation more seriously.
00:13:51
This will be this already is the out of
00:13:53
the Super Bowl. This is going to be the
00:13:56
moment when Sam Alman quite frankly [ __ ]
00:13:59
the bed and Daario became the new face
00:14:02
of AI. Uh but I believe this will be the
00:14:06
pivotal moment with also a focus on
00:14:08
enterprise versus the consumer. They're
00:14:09
going Dell versus versus gateway going
00:14:12
consumer or they're going enterprise
00:14:14
versus
00:14:14
>> this is a consumer play because it's all
00:14:16
about people asking advice from these
00:14:17
things. Let me tell you one of the
00:14:19
things that really struck me and I don't
00:14:20
know how you felt about it was the tone
00:14:22
of voice of these and the the one is
00:14:24
better than that. I just saw another one
00:14:26
and it was the execution is fantastic.
00:14:28
>> It was a woman talking to her business
00:14:30
plan and was offering her whatever a
00:14:33
like a like a like a web space kind of
00:14:36
thing. Um, but the voices and the and
00:14:39
the lack of emotion and the lack of
00:14:41
empathy in their voices and yet they're
00:14:43
the robotic nature of people. This is
00:14:45
what sounds like to people.
00:14:48
>> The shift in the tone. It goes from
00:14:49
human to anodine.
00:14:50
>> Mhm. Genius actually. And the thing
00:14:52
about
00:14:53
>> and pauses the pause until they answer
00:14:56
the cuz no one would do that, right?
00:14:58
Everybody jumps all when they talk they
00:15:00
have a normal interaction. But the pause
00:15:03
is what got me was perfect. Well, the
00:15:06
Super Bowl is basically the ads aren't
00:15:08
worth it. Whatever they're charging 8
00:15:10
million for 30, it's not worth it. The
00:15:12
only way it's worth it and you know, you
00:15:14
know, if the ad was worth it before the
00:15:16
ad ever airs and then it's how much play
00:15:17
is it getting on YouTube and and already
00:15:20
Anthropic's ads are worth more than
00:15:23
they're spending because everybody's
00:15:25
talking about its buzz. Ben Stiller's ad
00:15:27
for Instacart is going to be the silver
00:15:30
medalist here. It's [ __ ] hilarious.
00:15:32
>> It is. It's with um what's his name? Oh,
00:15:35
that guy.
00:15:35
>> Yeah, he does flips and everything, but
00:15:37
basically
00:15:38
>> don't do the flip.
00:15:39
>> This has nothing to do with the ad on
00:15:41
the Super Bowl. It's about your
00:15:42
permission to be evaluated and go viral
00:15:45
because you're advertising at the Super
00:15:47
Bowl.
00:15:47
>> Yeah.
00:15:48
>> And already Anthropic has gotten a huge
00:15:51
>> huge return. And also, if you'll notice,
00:15:54
>> Sam Alman is sounding very defensive.
00:15:56
>> He Oh my god, I laughed. But like, you
00:15:59
know that he should have said nothing or
00:16:02
said that was funny. Those are the only
00:16:04
two answers, right? That was Benson Boon
00:16:06
in the in the Benson.
00:16:07
>> But this was this was a pivotal turning
00:16:08
moment. What do you think?
00:16:10
>> I thought I just loved it. I thought it
00:16:12
was perfect. It also was, you know, it
00:16:14
really put a finger on what people don't
00:16:16
like about AI, right? It really did.
00:16:19
Yeah. They're such like ew. Like, oh,
00:16:22
like it's not a person. And it it was it
00:16:24
was actually kind of in their brand of
00:16:26
we're not those guys, right? Like it
00:16:29
also it didn't say what they were, but
00:16:32
it said what they weren't. And I think
00:16:34
that and what they aren't is something
00:16:36
that's very unattractive to people,
00:16:38
right? What what they are is attractive.
00:16:41
It's like I want to I want to use this
00:16:43
AI, but I don't want that. Like that's
00:16:46
what I thought was effective there. And
00:16:48
it it it for the the the actors who are
00:16:51
doing the chat bots are the workout one
00:16:55
with the guy working out was
00:16:57
>> I thought of the old Spice commercials.
00:16:58
I'm here on a horse. I have diamonds in
00:17:00
my hand.
00:17:00
>> Yes, I know. It was perfect. But it was
00:17:03
anyway good job uh Claude and and
00:17:05
Anthropic. It really is. And and Sam
00:17:08
really should have just said that was
00:17:09
really funny. Loved it.
00:17:10
>> But kind of what's more uncomfortable
00:17:13
about this is the following.
00:17:15
>> The number one use case of AI. You know
00:17:17
what it is?
00:17:19
>> Therapy.
00:17:20
>> So imagine you're giving someone the
00:17:23
most intimate details about your life.
00:17:25
>> Mhm.
00:17:26
>> And then the AI decides where to insert
00:17:28
an ad. It's imagine I've I've been I'm
00:17:31
getting served all of these ring light
00:17:32
therapists that are quote mental health
00:17:34
professionals telling everyone you don't
00:17:35
need a job, you don't need a
00:17:37
relationship, you need to work on
00:17:38
yourself first. Yeah, that that's
00:17:39
helpful.
00:17:40
>> Mhm.
00:17:40
>> Anyways, I heard one of these ring light
00:17:42
therapists recommending a dating site
00:17:45
>> and I thought, is this person being
00:17:46
compensated by this dating site? Imagine
00:17:49
sitting down and talking to a therapist
00:17:50
and giving them your most intimate
00:17:52
details and they say, "Oh, you should
00:17:54
absolutely go on Lexapro. And by the
00:17:56
way, I'm sponsored by Eli Liy or
00:17:59
whatever.
00:17:59
>> Doctors are, aren't they? They I mean,
00:18:01
that's that's a tale as old as time.
00:18:03
Anyway,
00:18:04
>> but people are using AI as a more
00:18:06
trusted doctor than their doctor. People
00:18:08
are going to AI.
00:18:10
>> I mean, doctors get all those gimmies
00:18:12
from pharmacy people. You know that like
00:18:14
there's a whole
00:18:15
>> And by the way, that's been seriously
00:18:16
pulled back and regulated as it should.
00:18:18
I used to get invited to these dinners
00:18:20
to to speak about
00:18:22
>> back when I was running a brand strategy
00:18:24
firm. invited to these dinners with with
00:18:26
neurosurgeons sponsored by Sandos or
00:18:29
whatever
00:18:30
>> and they've pulled back on that a lot
00:18:32
because they realized but if you're
00:18:33
giving AI the most intimate if you're
00:18:35
saying to AI
00:18:37
okay I have panc I have prostate cancer
00:18:41
my gleon scores are this and I don't
00:18:44
know whether I should have my prostate
00:18:45
removed or if I should just continue
00:18:47
therapy low-fat diet the idea that the
00:18:50
AI might be trying to figure out what ad
00:18:53
to insert at that moment Yeah. Yeah. It
00:18:55
has a very Facebooky feel to it, I'll
00:18:57
tell you.
00:18:58
>> With Google, you expect it. With
00:18:59
Facebook, you expect it. But right now,
00:19:01
everyone's under the impression that the
00:19:02
AI is their friend trying to help them.
00:19:05
>> Absolutely. All right. Moving from that,
00:19:08
let's run through a rapid fire update of
00:19:10
all the Epstein news that's happened
00:19:11
since we talked. I mean, seriously, this
00:19:12
is just First, let's listen to what
00:19:14
President Trump had to say to CNN's
00:19:15
Caitlyn Collins when asked about
00:19:17
Epstein's victims. This was something
00:19:19
else. And then JD Vance followed up with
00:19:21
a really even worse version of it. But
00:19:23
let's listen.
00:19:24
>> Yeah. What What did you say? Go ahead.
00:19:25
CNN,
00:19:26
>> what would you say to the survivors who
00:19:28
got
00:19:28
>> You are the worst reporter. No wonder
00:19:30
CNN has no ratings because of people
00:19:32
like you. You know, she's a young woman.
00:19:35
I don't think I've ever seen you smile.
00:19:36
I've known you for 10 years. I don't
00:19:39
think I've ever seen a smile on your
00:19:40
face.
00:19:41
>> Survivor. You know why you're not
00:19:43
smiling? Cuz you know you're not telling
00:19:44
the truth.
00:19:46
>> Uh that was something, Nick. Uh that was
00:19:48
something. Uh, let me say I think the
00:19:50
reason she got under her skin is cuz
00:19:52
what she was talking about was the
00:19:54
survivors of Donald Trump, you know.
00:19:56
>> Well, you mean that he's mentioned 5,700
00:19:58
times.
00:19:59
>> Yes, exactly. I think he knows deep in
00:20:01
his in his incredibly narcissistic
00:20:03
denial personality. He knows, right? And
00:20:07
so he knows what happened. These people
00:20:09
know what happened. And so, you know,
00:20:11
it's typical old man says, "I never seen
00:20:13
you smile." I've had that. Women have
00:20:14
that happen to them all the time.
00:20:15
>> Smile, sweetheart. Yeah, you should
00:20:17
smile more. You should put Cara Swisser
00:20:19
on the back of your thing and say thank
00:20:21
you. But um but uh it's really it was
00:20:24
really something. That was really
00:20:25
something. And and then what was
00:20:27
incredible is that JD has followed it in
00:20:29
a really ridiculous interview with Megan
00:20:30
Kelly in which he said, "Well, he just
00:20:33
wants her to have fun, you know? Oh my
00:20:35
god, he's he's a the cringiest cringe of
00:20:38
he just takes something that's bad and
00:20:40
makes it worse, which is really hard to
00:20:41
do in this situation."
00:20:43
>> I thought I see it's funny. I had a
00:20:45
different reaction there. I kind of
00:20:46
expected it from J. What I thought was
00:20:47
especially heinous was Megan Kelly
00:20:49
defending. Yeah.
00:20:50
>> The president referenced her menstrual
00:20:51
cycle. There's a there's got to be a
00:20:54
line where as someone has a certain
00:20:57
level and I go back, you know, not just
00:21:00
not just everyone should have a code in
00:21:02
lines. You don't the key isn't to be
00:21:04
likable. You everyone deserves
00:21:05
boundaries in a relationship and
00:21:07
boundaries around the behavior they will
00:21:08
accept and not accept. When the
00:21:10
president insulted the looks of Senator
00:21:13
Cruz's wife, that should have been a red
00:21:14
line and it should be like, "I'm never
00:21:16
supporting you ever again." And when the
00:21:18
president referenced Megan Kelly's
00:21:20
menstrual cycle, that should have been a
00:21:21
line where she would, I would think, for
00:21:23
the rest of her career go, "This guy has
00:21:25
a problem when it comes to women." And I
00:21:27
was
00:21:28
>> I was uh texting this morning with uh
00:21:31
Molly John Fast. And the the thing I've
00:21:34
been trying to wrap my hands around I
00:21:36
want to get your viewpoint here around
00:21:38
the Epstein files. And the problem is or
00:21:40
I see the biggest problem is that what
00:21:42
we need is a a thick layer of an
00:21:45
institution that we trust. And that used
00:21:46
to be the Department of Justice to go
00:21:48
through in the FBI these these 3 million
00:21:51
pages and say, "Okay, our job is to use
00:21:54
discretion and the rule of law to parse
00:21:57
what is illegal criminal behavior that
00:21:59
deserves public attention and what does
00:22:01
not deserve public attention like being
00:22:03
on an invite list to a party in St. arts
00:22:06
that Jeffrey Epste was going because
00:22:07
right now we're overpunishing [ __ ] that
00:22:10
is trivial and superolous and we're
00:22:12
underpunishing
00:22:15
child rape.
00:22:16
>> Yep.
00:22:17
>> Everything has been mushed together and
00:22:19
because we don't trust an institution
00:22:22
>> to go through this and say this is
00:22:24
criminal activity and warrants public
00:22:26
scrutiny and legal scrutiny. And quite
00:22:28
frankly folks, we're not even going to
00:22:29
release this [ __ ] because all it does is
00:22:32
impug people for no reason. Mhm.
00:22:34
>> But the problem is there's no arbiter.
00:22:36
There's no institution that
00:22:37
traditionally we've had trust in that
00:22:40
we're comfortable with doing it. So
00:22:42
everyone's like release the files. They
00:22:43
release all 3 million. I don't even know
00:22:45
if this is helping right now.
00:22:47
>> They released half. They've released
00:22:48
half. They're not What are your
00:22:50
thoughts? I
00:22:50
>> I just He's a pig. I'm sorry. He's just
00:22:53
an old man pig and JD Vance made it
00:22:55
worse. And Megan Kelly, forget it. She's
00:22:56
a bluffer to all of them and she's going
00:22:58
to put this on her show. So hey Megan,
00:23:00
good to give you content. You'll attack
00:23:02
me and not Scott who's appropriately
00:23:04
critical of you. But that's fine.
00:23:05
Whatever you want, girl. Um, next up,
00:23:07
Bill.
00:23:08
>> I've been on Megan's show. Have you been
00:23:09
on her show?
00:23:09
>> No, of course not. Why would I Why would
00:23:11
I get it, though? I think she's very
00:23:14
talented.
00:23:14
>> She has turned into something else.
00:23:16
Scott, you're not paying attention.
00:23:17
>> No, no, no.
00:23:18
>> Don't interrupt my sentence to score
00:23:20
points with your woke warriors.
00:23:21
>> What I was going to say with you with
00:23:23
the woke warrior.
00:23:24
>> What I was going to say, well, let let
00:23:25
me finish. is that I register that she
00:23:28
like Candace Owens
00:23:30
>> has literally gone off the [ __ ] deep
00:23:32
end.
00:23:32
>> Yeah.
00:23:32
>> And I can't figure out if it's because
00:23:35
the rage algorithms love rage bait so
00:23:37
they get more money every time they say
00:23:38
something incendiary or they have
00:23:40
literally gone insane. Like they haven't
00:23:42
taken a red pill. They've swallowed like
00:23:45
you know a red cyanide pill. But I would
00:23:48
argue over the last few years, Megan has
00:23:50
gone very very
00:23:52
>> conspiracy theory and has decided the
00:23:55
more insane incendiary [ __ ] I say
00:23:58
>> Mhm.
00:23:58
>> Uh is it that she's making money or is
00:24:00
she has she seriously lost her [ __ ]
00:24:03
>> Yeah. I don't know. I don't honestly is
00:24:05
she's I don't care. She's just one of
00:24:08
those people I've decided to like put in
00:24:10
the trash bin of my whatever. She can
00:24:12
she can say whatever she wants about me
00:24:13
if I provide good content to her. Knock
00:24:16
yourself out, girl. Anyway, Bill and
00:24:18
Hillary Clinton have agreed to be
00:24:19
deposed on camera at public hearings in
00:24:21
the Epstein investigation. That should
00:24:23
be something. Obviously, when I
00:24:25
interviewed Ro Connie, he said they
00:24:26
absolutely should. I agree. So should
00:24:28
President Trump. They should also bring
00:24:29
him in. They should bring all these
00:24:30
people in. Um but they're having them
00:24:33
and Hillary did this morning was like,
00:24:35
"Bring it on." Like I'm a little scared
00:24:36
for the Republicans, honestly. And she
00:24:38
wants cameras there. She's like, so
00:24:40
obviously she's got something up her
00:24:41
sleeve, and I wouldn't I don't I think
00:24:44
this woman has run out of [ __ ] after
00:24:45
being like whacked, right? I mean, some
00:24:47
of it is her fault, but boy, have they
00:24:49
just she's she's loaded for bear, I
00:24:54
would say, is my feeling. And um they
00:24:56
could throw them they could she's going
00:24:58
to talk about Trump the whole time.
00:25:00
That's what she's going to do. the it's
00:25:02
in my going back to my brand strategy
00:25:04
course. I do people as brands and I look
00:25:06
at them as brands and break down their
00:25:07
core attributes
00:25:08
>> and I did the Clintons and I did Bill
00:25:11
and Hillary and they both especially
00:25:13
Bill but they're brand attributes that
00:25:16
are so powerful. First off, Bill has
00:25:18
Opraike empathy. I generally get the
00:25:20
sense when I met Bill Clinton I thought
00:25:22
this guy cares about me. I'm going to
00:25:24
support him the rest of my life. I got
00:25:25
you get the sense he genuinely like
00:25:27
>> he's very
00:25:28
>> cares
00:25:29
>> and it's so it comes across as so
00:25:31
genuine it's hard to believe it's not
00:25:32
genuine. Anyways,
00:25:34
>> the second thing is you would never want
00:25:37
the Clintons on the other side of
00:25:38
anything you're doing.
00:25:40
>> These people are ruthless and smart.
00:25:42
>> I don't care if you're I don't care if
00:25:44
you're picking players for a softball
00:25:45
team. If these people had no athletic
00:25:47
ability, I would still want them on my
00:25:49
team cuz they would figure out a way to
00:25:50
kneecap the second baseman. throw a I
00:25:53
think she's good at I think she's
00:25:54
>> if I I can't wait for this and if I were
00:25:57
if I were the Trump administration the
00:25:59
last [ __ ] thing I would want
00:26:01
>> is cameras on a very wellprepared 155
00:26:05
[ __ ] IQ is Secretary Clinton because
00:26:09
>> well did you see did you see Trump said
00:26:10
I like Bill Clinton like he was
00:26:13
>> all of a sudden he's trying to be like
00:26:14
they're pretty good people going
00:26:15
>> and they shouldn't have to undergo this
00:26:17
>> you I'm sorry Bill Clinton and Hillary
00:26:21
Clinton
00:26:22
are testifying. Could these could the
00:26:24
Trump administration be more stupid? And
00:26:28
you're going to have a bunch of trust me
00:26:30
there's going to be three or four
00:26:31
moments
00:26:32
>> where some idiot staffer has given a
00:26:34
bigger idiot Republican a stupid
00:26:37
question
00:26:38
>> and you are going to see one of the
00:26:42
Clintons slap them back so silly. I
00:26:45
can't I literally can't I'm not going to
00:26:47
watch this. This is my Super Bowl. I
00:26:50
can't wait for this.
00:26:51
>> Yeah. Anyway, let's get through the last
00:26:54
two. Melinda French Gates, another smart
00:26:56
cookie, said references to her
00:26:57
ex-husband and filled her with
00:26:58
unbelievable sadness that he along with
00:27:00
others needed to answer the question
00:27:01
that remained. Gates himself apologized
00:27:03
yet again. But I thought Melinda Gates
00:27:05
handled herself with so much class given
00:27:07
she keeps getting asked about her the
00:27:09
behavior of her ex-husband. Um, I would
00:27:12
hate I would hate that. I would hate
00:27:13
that. I thought she handled well. And
00:27:15
and let me add into that, you can pick
00:27:17
either one. CBS is pulling a 60-minute
00:27:19
segment with longevity guru Peter Aya,
00:27:22
but the network's news editor and chief
00:27:24
Barry Weiss is reportedly refusing to
00:27:25
fire him a contributor. Um, I'll on the
00:27:27
way weigh in very quickly here. I've
00:27:29
heard from a lot of people they really
00:27:30
want him gone and they should because
00:27:33
you can easily replace him with someone
00:27:35
like Scott Galloway, for example, who
00:27:37
knows all about the he's, you know,
00:27:39
Scott.
00:27:39
>> You're the longevity person now.
00:27:41
>> Yeah, I'm the longevity person. I'm
00:27:42
using it for marketing. I'm like, great,
00:27:44
keep this like keep this uh Epstein
00:27:47
soiled um person who already a lot of
00:27:50
people think is a bit of a grifter on
00:27:52
there. And plus, she's added uh um
00:27:54
Andrew Huberman, I know you like him,
00:27:55
but and and Markman, who is really I'm
00:27:58
sorry, it's just codswall up a lot of
00:28:00
the stuff he he blabbls about. Um
00:28:03
anyway, either one, Melinda or
00:28:05
>> Yeah, but okay. So I I think I think
00:28:09
Melinda French Gates joins
00:28:11
a crew of women and this is sexist who
00:28:14
seem to have a different approach to how
00:28:15
they acquit themselves when they become
00:28:17
billionaires. And that is they're more
00:28:19
focused on philanthropy. They
00:28:21
demonstrate grace. They demonstrate
00:28:23
empathy, focused on their kids. And they
00:28:28
have just I mean I've told you this kind
00:28:30
of one of my personal heroes is
00:28:31
Mackenzie Scott. the approach she takes
00:28:34
to her life and giving versus the other
00:28:36
half of the marriage. It's just there's
00:28:39
something about the female brain and
00:28:42
this is sexist because I'm
00:28:43
distinguishing between the
00:28:44
>> sexes. It's actually
00:28:45
>> and by the way, let me be clear. Let me
00:28:46
let me piss off women. I think men often
00:28:49
times the male brain brain because of
00:28:50
testosterone and more risk
00:28:51
aggressiveness sometimes more than often
00:28:54
make outstanding entrepreneurs and I
00:28:56
think that male aggression has put us on
00:28:58
the moon and discovered vaccines. So,
00:28:59
let me give some credit that it's also
00:29:01
disparaging or people are going to take
00:29:02
it as a hate crime against women. When
00:29:04
they become billionaires, it appears
00:29:06
that the female brain is much more about
00:29:10
how do I help others versus how can I
00:29:14
have the most [ __ ] fabulous life with
00:29:16
with, you know, in Aspen. There does
00:29:19
seem to be a real distinct difference
00:29:22
between these divorces and how the
00:29:24
female side of the equation acquits
00:29:26
themselves versus the male equation. I
00:29:28
would say Sergey Brand and an Wajiski is
00:29:30
another example of that.
00:29:31
>> They're everywhere. Look at these
00:29:33
examples everywhere.
00:29:34
>> Island by him too.
00:29:35
>> Look at all these examples everywhere.
00:29:36
And then also though, and I think we're
00:29:38
going to agree on this or disagree on
00:29:40
this, but I want I think Dr. Peter Aia
00:29:42
is a [ __ ] distraction here. Let his
00:29:45
colleagues, let his podcast listeners,
00:29:47
let his podcast network, as far as I can
00:29:49
tell, he did not commit a crime. He just
00:29:51
comes across as a creep. Hold on.
00:29:52
>> Think that.
00:29:53
>> Hold on. But but there is credible
00:29:56
evidence that the president of the
00:29:57
United States, who has been mentioned
00:29:59
5,700 times, may have engaged in child
00:30:02
rape. So I could give a flying [ __ ]
00:30:05
about a longevity doctor and the creepy
00:30:08
emails he sends. This is about criminal
00:30:11
activity amongst our our cabinet and our
00:30:15
our president and not creepy emails from
00:30:19
a wellness doctor. I get your point and
00:30:21
I I'm going to say yes, but do we have
00:30:24
again as I said before, do we have to
00:30:25
stack rank these things? I mean, you can
00:30:27
say and I agree with you. I repeat,
00:30:29
>> one's about indictments. The other is
00:30:31
about who cares.
00:30:31
>> They should be we should be focused on
00:30:33
criminally indicting the people who have
00:30:35
who have abused young women or young
00:30:37
women, not women, young girls. Children,
00:30:40
let's just go right to children. I'm not
00:30:41
speaking of Megan Kelly trying to figure
00:30:44
out which age is okay. None of them.
00:30:47
>> The the 15year-old, they're 15. They
00:30:50
look like they're 18, so it's okay.
00:30:52
>> They're wearing, you know, extensions,
00:30:54
you know, like, oh my god. Like, so I
00:30:57
agree with you on that. That said,
00:31:00
it's okay to say, "Ew," to like Howard
00:31:04
Lutnik, yuck, what a liar about his his
00:31:07
affiliations with thing. It's okay to
00:31:09
say, "Wow, Peter Adio, what a creepy
00:31:12
dude." It's okay to do that. Also,
00:31:14
that's all I I just don't think you have
00:31:15
to like
00:31:16
>> there should be a DOJ releasing to the
00:31:18
public information and to grand juries
00:31:20
again on diamonds on criminal behavior.
00:31:22
>> Agreed.
00:31:23
>> And quite frankly, they should not be
00:31:24
releasing
00:31:26
>> Kevin Marsh or whatever his name is, it
00:31:28
comes up. He's in the Epstein files
00:31:29
because he was on an invite list.
00:31:30
>> I I Yes. If we had institutions we could
00:31:33
still trust that aren't perverted by the
00:31:35
president's total overrun of a co-equal
00:31:37
branch of government, you could have an
00:31:39
FBI and a DOJ that would say, "Here's
00:31:41
the information we're releasing cuz it's
00:31:42
pertinent and here's the information
00:31:45
we're not releasing cuz all it does is
00:31:47
create distraction and delution of the
00:31:50
real criminals here."
00:31:50
>> But the guy who was head of Paul Weiss
00:31:52
who acquiesed very early to the Trumps,
00:31:54
he had to step down because of his I
00:31:56
mean I'm just saying there is devils. I
00:31:57
agree with you. I think we are actually
00:31:59
agreed on this. Um, but I just would
00:32:01
note that Peter Aier wrote, "The worst
00:32:02
thing about being friends with Epstein
00:32:04
was that he couldn't tell a soul about
00:32:05
the financier's outrageous life. I
00:32:08
wouldn't want to work with this fucker."
00:32:09
So anyway, um, let's go on a quick
00:32:12
break.
00:32:12
>> If if AI went through every email you
00:32:14
sent, could they find [ __ ] that makes
00:32:16
you look really bad?
00:32:17
>> Not like this. No, not even close. No.
00:32:20
No.
00:32:20
>> Yeah, it's probably
00:32:21
>> No. And not you either, by the way, FYI.
00:32:23
I don't think so either.
00:32:24
>> Come on. Like it's mostly you like
00:32:27
yelling at me. Really? That's what
00:32:28
really happens, people. Oh yeah. Me
00:32:31
yelling at you. I think you got the I
00:32:33
think you got your pronouns off there or
00:32:35
whatever we're calling me yelling at you
00:32:40
at 2 a.m. You need to apologize to so
00:32:42
and so and Cheryl You're being unfair to
00:32:45
Cheryl Samber.
00:32:46
>> You know what? We had a lovely chat last
00:32:49
night. Scott and I did. Just so you
00:32:50
know. We did.
00:32:51
>> We tal we spoke last night.
00:32:52
>> We two two nights ago. Last night. Two
00:32:54
nights. Anyway, we had a lovely time. I
00:32:56
went out last night with my lovely wife.
00:32:58
Let's go on a quick break. We come back.
00:33:00
Alphabet earnings. Really interesting.
00:33:03
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00:34:12
Scott, we're back onto some earnings.
00:34:13
Alphabet beat earnings and revenue
00:34:15
expectations with a net income up almost
00:34:17
30% from the year prior. Well done,
00:34:19
Sundar Kachai. Uh the company expects
00:34:22
2026 capex spend to be this is
00:34:24
incredible 175 and uh 165 and 175
00:34:28
billion which could be more than double
00:34:30
2025 spending and obviously all on AI
00:34:34
shares are down 5% in the last uh couple
00:34:36
days because at the time of the taping
00:34:38
very briefly what do you think of these
00:34:40
alpha earnings because you've been
00:34:41
focused on on the Google the owner of
00:34:43
Google
00:34:44
>> uh Alphabet was my stock pick for 2025
00:34:46
that this is nothing short of staggering
00:34:49
um annual revenues uh at 400 billion
00:34:53
right now. YouTube revenue up 9%, Google
00:34:55
Cloud up 48%.
00:34:58
Cara, oh, and by the way, Open AI was
00:35:01
supposedly going to kill Google search.
00:35:02
Search is up 17%. Google services
00:35:05
revenue up
00:35:06
>> 14%.
00:35:07
>> They finally move fast.
00:35:08
>> The market was a little spooked by their
00:35:09
capex expenditure. In this case, it's a
00:35:11
feature, not a bug, cuz they have the
00:35:12
money to do it.
00:35:13
>> And you want to talk about a comeback
00:35:15
story for the ages? Back in 2022, the
00:35:17
market decided that search had an
00:35:20
existential threat with chat GPT and the
00:35:22
stock was off 40%. And guess where?
00:35:24
Guess where the stock is now since it
00:35:26
hit that low? It's up fourfold.
00:35:30
And since the quarter that chat GBPT was
00:35:32
released, Google search revenues are up
00:35:34
48%.
00:35:36
They get about 90 to 95 times the number
00:35:38
of queries as Chat GBT. And the thing I
00:35:40
took away from this these earnings were
00:35:42
two things. One, staggering. And two, I
00:35:46
think Open AI is [ __ ] They're getting
00:35:48
attacked from the side by anthropic with
00:35:51
incredible positioning highlighting
00:35:53
their their soft tissue around
00:35:54
advertising. They're getting attacked
00:35:56
from above by Alphabet, which has more
00:36:00
probably IP and a fire hose of two
00:36:02
billion people a day to point at their
00:36:04
own AI platforms. And they're getting
00:36:06
attacked from below by these openweight
00:36:08
LLMs out of China. I I saw this and I'm
00:36:11
like Jesus Christ this company is on
00:36:14
fire and well managed and then I thought
00:36:16
there is no you I think we have seen the
00:36:19
peak of open AI's valuation. They're
00:36:22
supposedly raising money at 850. I think
00:36:24
that'll be the high water mark.
00:36:25
>> All right. Hope well interesting. All
00:36:26
right. Now on to Disney. The company
00:36:28
topped earnings and revenue expectations
00:36:30
with experience department reporting
00:36:31
over $10 billion in quarterly revenue
00:36:33
for the first time. That's the with
00:36:34
parks. Overall revenue for the
00:36:36
entertainment segment of the company was
00:36:38
up 7% year-over-year. Not bad. He made
00:36:40
another big announcement. The CEO Bob
00:36:42
Iger, Josh Demorro, will replace him. He
00:36:44
has been at Disney for 28 years and most
00:36:46
recently served as chairman of Disney
00:36:48
Experiences, which makes up roughly 60%
00:36:51
of the profit last year. The company
00:36:52
also promoted top television executive
00:36:55
Dana Walden to president and chief
00:36:56
creative officer. The I mean she gets
00:36:59
the um consolation prize, I guess. Once
00:37:02
again, Scott Cara was right. Let's
00:37:04
listen to who I predicted Disney would
00:37:05
choose in the October of 2024.
00:37:08
Um, any idea who is who is going to be
00:37:11
the next uh Bob Iger? Probably be
00:37:13
someone internally pro. I'm guessing
00:37:15
either Josh or or Dana Walden. One of
00:37:19
those two. It just seemed like it's hard
00:37:21
to run a company like Disney if you
00:37:22
haven't been there 103 years. Um, so uh
00:37:25
we asked our friend and founding partner
00:37:27
of Puck, Bill Cohen, for his thoughts on
00:37:29
the transition. Let's just quickly
00:37:30
listen to him what he had to say.
00:37:32
>> In many ways it was the inevitable
00:37:34
choice. Uh, in some ways it was the most
00:37:37
ironic choice. Uh, I say the ironic
00:37:40
choice because of course uh Bob Chapek
00:37:44
uh ran the parks and events uh division
00:37:48
of Disney when Bob Iger selected him to
00:37:53
be his first successor. And we all know
00:37:56
that that did not work out uh at all.
00:37:59
And now he's got uh Dearo as his uh
00:38:03
successor, also from the parks division.
00:38:06
And I say the inevitable choice because
00:38:09
look, let's face it, that's the division
00:38:11
that's been hitting it uh out of the
00:38:13
ballpark uh for the last few years. He's
00:38:16
been monetizing uh the Disney IP uh
00:38:19
beautifully. They were also very smart
00:38:21
in keeping uh the people around uh at uh
00:38:26
Disney uh who uh have the skills that he
00:38:29
doesn't have uh including Dana Walden
00:38:32
promoting her, Alan Bergman, Jimmy
00:38:34
Petaro uh running ESPN. So, he's got a
00:38:37
good cast around him. If tomorrow can
00:38:39
keep up uh what he's done at uh in the
00:38:43
parks department and uh increase the
00:38:46
Disney stock price, which of course is
00:38:48
what everybody wants him to do because
00:38:50
it's floundered for the last couple of
00:38:52
years, uh he'll be a success. If if uh
00:38:55
he can't do those things, and it's a big
00:38:57
question mark still, uh he may go the
00:39:00
way of Bob Chapek.
00:39:01
>> Uh it's too big, actually. But uh what
00:39:03
this really interesting, I thought that
00:39:04
was really smart. I mean,
00:39:06
It's still you Scott and I both think
00:39:08
this companyy's going to get bought for
00:39:10
some reason. I just Right. Correct. Are
00:39:12
we still on that?
00:39:13
>> If it if it doesn't get if it doesn't
00:39:15
get bought that's inviting an activist.
00:39:17
They'll give the new CEO a 24-month
00:39:19
honeymoon period. But I wouldn't be
00:39:21
surprised if someone is aggregating
00:39:23
stock right now because if you look at
00:39:25
the 10-year returns of the S&P, it's
00:39:27
almost quadrupled. Disney is flat. And
00:39:32
Bob Iger is the guy who decided after a
00:39:34
successful tour of Vietnam to go back
00:39:36
and basically has had his legs blown
00:39:37
off. I mean the the one of the worst
00:39:40
decisions in history in corporate
00:39:41
history personally was for Bob Iger to
00:39:43
decide to shoot his successor and come
00:39:46
back in like he was MacArthur. He
00:39:48
wasn't. He anyways um this company will
00:39:52
have an overhang on it until they do the
00:39:54
following.
00:39:56
This should be good bank. It should be,
00:39:59
if you will, it should be um the
00:40:00
streaming service, the studio, and the
00:40:03
parks. They feed each other IP, there's
00:40:06
Synergy, and there's flywheels. And then
00:40:08
they've got to get rid of um ESPN, ABC,
00:40:12
cable networks, FX, Free Form, Disney
00:40:15
Channel, Nat Gio, cuz these things are
00:40:17
just an anchor. and the linear
00:40:19
businesses
00:40:20
and the linear businesses are just
00:40:22
awful. But the experiences, the parks
00:40:24
and cruises and streaming are growing
00:40:26
and getting profitable. And when you
00:40:29
have a conglomerate like this, what the
00:40:31
market does is they find the shittiest
00:40:33
business which is the linear business
00:40:34
and they assign that multiple to the
00:40:36
entire company. So Disney is probably in
00:40:39
my view is one of the few values or good
00:40:42
buys out there right now because it has
00:40:43
unmatched IP. the parks business,
00:40:47
assuming that the tariffs are reversed
00:40:48
and people start coming back to the US
00:40:50
at some point, is is singular. I don't
00:40:53
care what anyone think. If you don't
00:40:55
take your kids and spend $1,400 a night
00:40:57
in a shitty hotel three or four times
00:41:00
before the age of 10, they call child
00:41:01
services on you. They have a monopoly on
00:41:04
>> not just that. Not just that, it's toys.
00:41:06
>> Frozen. You have to have Disney Plus.
00:41:08
>> They still haven't been like, you know,
00:41:10
like I don't think they they don't have
00:41:11
Coco Melon. I think that's over at
00:41:12
Netflix. They they still haven't caught
00:41:14
on to some trends. That's my worry for
00:41:17
them is they've got a lot of old trends,
00:41:18
right? A lot of old stuff like uh K-pop
00:41:21
Demon Hunters, for example. That was
00:41:23
Netflix again. Like, and some of the
00:41:25
other ones that are very popular with
00:41:26
kids, the more cutting edge ones, they
00:41:29
don't seem to be on top of them. So, I
00:41:30
would imagine that uh Dana and there has
00:41:34
to really focus on that. Like what is
00:41:36
hot? like they they they have the
00:41:38
traditionals and Frozen two and I mean
00:41:41
three and four are coming out which of
00:41:43
course we have to see and then we'll
00:41:45
have all the things um but you know
00:41:47
they've missed a lot of turns on the
00:41:48
newest kind of viral phenomenas that are
00:41:52
very lasting too right and so that would
00:41:54
be my thing and but content isn't the
00:41:57
point it's the parks it's the streaming
00:41:58
it's the IP and what do you do with that
00:42:01
and so to me they have to really um
00:42:04
understand maybe have a little more of a
00:42:06
range change an IP or something like
00:42:08
that as as they're doing over at Netflix
00:42:10
and other places. Just they could be a
00:42:12
little more innovative. But you're
00:42:13
right, it has to be spun off. Let Jimmy
00:42:15
Baro run all of those. I've known him
00:42:17
for a long time from Yahoo and very
00:42:19
smart executive.
00:42:20
>> Their their experiences division in Q1
00:42:22
reported three times the operating
00:42:24
income as the entertainment division.
00:42:26
The entertainment division,
00:42:27
>> the crown jewel there, the streaming
00:42:28
services are actually getting some
00:42:30
leverage. Their operating income was up
00:42:31
72%. So if you have this unbelievable
00:42:33
singular business with enormous modes
00:42:35
called the experiences division and you
00:42:37
have the studios which create IP for
00:42:40
your streaming services which is getting
00:42:41
momentum and right now you know Netflix
00:42:44
is Walmart and Disney is LVMH in the
00:42:46
sense that Disney has a singular
00:42:48
positioning around family that will be
00:42:50
very strong for a long time and command
00:42:52
margin. those two growth companies
00:42:54
together and then you shed the problem
00:42:58
child the linear networks this company
00:43:00
immediately they could I I said this
00:43:02
last year I think they could sell and
00:43:04
they won't do this ESPN ABC
00:43:06
Entertainment Global Networks FX all
00:43:08
that [ __ ] NetGo I think they could sell
00:43:10
it for a dollar and the company would be
00:43:12
worth more in six months
00:43:14
>> because it's an enormous overhang on
00:43:17
them
00:43:18
>> makes a lot of profit
00:43:19
>> every analyst every analyst report says
00:43:21
the following good good, great, good,
00:43:24
but there's always a butt and that is
00:43:27
these huge cable companies. And by the
00:43:30
way, that company
00:43:32
just done it before he leaves, you know,
00:43:34
done.
00:43:34
>> I think he wanted a bigger number. He
00:43:36
put a for sale sign on these things 24
00:43:38
months ago.
00:43:38
>> He did. Yeah.
00:43:39
>> But private equity and there's a and now
00:43:41
it's like whatever the one is from con
00:43:43
Comcast. Someone is going to consolidate
00:43:45
these things. And by the way, that'll
00:43:47
probably be a good stock cuz someone
00:43:48
will come in and start cutting costs
00:43:50
faster than revenue declines. And people
00:43:53
usually overestimate the speed of
00:43:55
revenue declines. That'll be a good
00:43:57
business. It'll be a totally different
00:43:59
business.
00:43:59
>> There's going to be a lot of activity
00:44:00
because look, if Paramount doesn't get
00:44:03
uh doesn't get Warner, that's going to
00:44:05
be someone on the lookout. You've got
00:44:07
Comcast sort of waiting in the wings. I
00:44:09
went to an Olympic party last night.
00:44:10
Boy, they have a great month coming up.
00:44:12
They've got the Super Bowl, they've got
00:44:13
the Olympics, and they've got the NBA
00:44:15
something or other. They're calling it
00:44:17
Legendary February. Um, uh, you know,
00:44:20
they've got to do something. So, there's
00:44:21
going to be a lot of activity here. And
00:44:23
you're right, the spin-off of ABC
00:44:24
provides an opportunity for any of these
00:44:26
players, uh, going forward. Anyway,
00:44:29
let's go on a quick break. When we come
00:44:30
back, uh, we're going to talk about the
00:44:32
Washington Post layoffs, and I'm going
00:44:33
to get some advice from Scott Galloway.
00:44:35
Scott, we're back with more news. The
00:44:36
Washington Post has laid off about 30%
00:44:38
of its employees. The cuts impact both
00:44:40
business and newsroom roles including
00:44:42
over 300 there roughly 800 journalists.
00:44:44
Interestingly, I looked at old memos. Uh
00:44:47
Bezos had added up to a thousand. He
00:44:50
really grew it and now he's on growing
00:44:51
it. Um in all sections of company have
00:44:54
been impacted with a focus on sports,
00:44:55
local news, and international covers.
00:44:57
Executive editor Matt Murray told the
00:44:58
staff the company had lost too much
00:44:59
money for too long. It will now be
00:45:01
focused on national news and politics,
00:45:03
business, and health. Uh maybe they can
00:45:05
hire Peter or Tia. Um, I want you not to
00:45:08
say people are precious right now. I
00:45:11
want to talk about this because I've
00:45:12
gotten dozens of, you know, I had been
00:45:13
interested in looking at figuring out a
00:45:15
way to buy it. Um, I've gotten lots of
00:45:17
calls this week from both employees,
00:45:19
very wealthy people, people who are
00:45:21
civically minded here in Washington,
00:45:23
rich people. Um, what do you think's
00:45:26
going to happen here? I mean, let me
00:45:27
just very briefly, since I worked there,
00:45:29
again, I started in the mail room. The
00:45:31
way they did this, Bezos hasn't said a
00:45:33
word. The CEO didn't talk to any
00:45:35
employees. Hasn't been seen since they
00:45:37
did this. They they handed the bag to
00:45:39
Matt Murray to deal with it. Um, which
00:45:42
to me was just cowardly. Um, you know, I
00:45:45
put on threads. Bezos has twice the
00:45:48
muscle and he's half the man from when I
00:45:50
met him. Um, but and that was a personal
00:45:53
insult. I meant it in a really very
00:45:55
significant way. Um, what do you do with
00:45:59
this? What do you do? And what do I when
00:46:01
I get all these calls like I'm doing
00:46:03
great with the podcast although
00:46:04
apparently you're leaving me. Um and I'm
00:46:07
just banging bouch.
00:46:08
>> Okay, it's fine. I don't care.
00:46:10
>> Consensuality.
00:46:13
Who would have thought Hunter Biden
00:46:14
would come across as so wholesome? All
00:46:16
these prostitutes are on TikTok saying
00:46:18
he was respectful. He likes they're all
00:46:21
like they're all like he likes crack and
00:46:23
having sex with grown women and he looks
00:46:26
wholesome right now. He's not in the
00:46:28
Epstein pile. surprised. He's nowhere in
00:46:29
the Epstein box.
00:46:30
>> I have to say, yeah, I agree.
00:46:31
>> He looks like Richard Thomas from the
00:46:33
Waltons right now.
00:46:34
>> Who else? Maybe Gavin Newsome. I'm like,
00:46:36
how did you not get in the Anyway, um
00:46:39
tell tell me what to do here. Tell me
00:46:42
what you think. Obviously, let me just
00:46:44
tell you. Thanks, Jeff. Really, the
00:46:46
economics have changed. Everybody knows
00:46:48
this. Stop lecturing us on things they
00:46:51
know. They definitely had to cut cost.
00:46:53
If I took it over, I I'd cut cause. not
00:46:55
in this nasty prickish way while I'm
00:46:57
appearing with Pete Hegsth. Uh looking
00:46:59
like I've had way too much Botox, but
00:47:02
and I would say something to them if I
00:47:04
was doing this given how rich I am and I
00:47:06
certainly could afford it. I don't mean
00:47:08
to say he has to lose money, but boy,
00:47:10
the look is so bad. It's such a bad
00:47:12
look. Him swaning around Paris while
00:47:14
he's done this and then not even
00:47:16
speaking to them. The whole thing just
00:47:18
stinks the way he handled this of really
00:47:19
good people who will find who will find
00:47:22
jobs at some point and but it's a lot of
00:47:24
people in the market all at once. So
00:47:26
what to do here without insulting this?
00:47:30
Go ahead.
00:47:31
>> Okay. So this is Cara Swisser calling me
00:47:33
at 11 p.m. or midnight asking my advice
00:47:36
from the Washington Post and if and how
00:47:37
you should get involved. Is that
00:47:38
accurate?
00:47:39
>> Yes, correct.
00:47:40
>> Okay. First thing I say is hold on a
00:47:42
second. I got to take my dogs out to pee
00:47:44
because I just took edibles and I'll
00:47:45
forget. And if they pee on the stone,
00:47:47
I'm I'm going to be in a bowl of hurt.
00:47:49
That's the first thing I say.
00:47:50
>> All right. So now you
00:47:50
>> I take the dogs on a walk and I think
00:47:52
about it. This is what I would say to
00:47:53
you. Don't touch this thing with a
00:47:54
[ __ ] 10-ft pole. Cuz here's the
00:47:56
bottom line.
00:47:58
>> First off, Jeff Bezos has made a
00:47:59
terrible personal brand error by not
00:48:02
doing the following. He should have
00:48:04
said, "I have incredible reverence for
00:48:07
uh journalism, for free speech. I bought
00:48:09
this because I think it plays an
00:48:10
important role in our society. it has
00:48:12
come to my attention or I have decided
00:48:14
I'm just not the right owner and he
00:48:16
should have sold it to Bloomberg or some
00:48:19
other billionaire two years ago and they
00:48:21
would had a going away party forum and
00:48:23
he should have wrapped himself in
00:48:27
the importance of great journalism and
00:48:29
there are what's so sad right now about
00:48:31
the Washington Post is from I would call
00:48:33
it kind of 2018 to 2023
00:48:38
they were on an upslope I started
00:48:40
reading the Washington Post I subscribed
00:48:41
to for its business news. I thought they
00:48:43
did a really good job of business
00:48:44
coverage.
00:48:45
>> Talented journalist, an important
00:48:48
>> good stories.
00:48:48
>> Yeah. An important
00:48:50
>> American asset and he should have gone
00:48:53
out. Instead, he looks like someone who
00:48:55
is purposefully trying to disassemble it
00:48:58
limb by limb. Now, the reason you should
00:49:01
not get near this, Cara, is because if
00:49:03
you were worth 10 billion and willing to
00:49:06
allocate two or three billion over the
00:49:08
next 20 or 20 years, I'd say
00:49:10
>> for the good. Yeah,
00:49:12
>> have at it. It's philanthropy. Because
00:49:13
here's the bottom line. In an era of
00:49:15
social media where two-thirds of news is
00:49:17
now garnered off of social media where
00:49:20
they don't have to pay for content, long
00:49:21
for thoughtful fact check investigative
00:49:24
journalism is a shitty business. And
00:49:27
also, let me be clear, the few newsrooms
00:49:30
I have been in, and I've been in some
00:49:31
important ones, there's a general
00:49:35
expectance and entitlement that, oh,
00:49:38
you're some rich person and you're
00:49:40
funding my very important civic duty,
00:49:43
and I find there's a lack of recognition
00:49:46
of the fact this is a private company
00:49:48
that needs to figure out a way to make
00:49:49
money.
00:49:50
>> I think that's been starched out of
00:49:51
them. But go ahead. I agree with you. I
00:49:53
I still think they find themselves
00:49:55
especially precious and that
00:49:56
billionaires owe them a living.
00:49:58
>> Well,
00:49:58
>> and there may be they may be there may
00:50:01
be billionaires who see an opportunity
00:50:03
here
00:50:05
>> to if you could find a billionaire
00:50:07
backer who said this is so important and
00:50:10
there are amazing journalists. It's an
00:50:12
important asset. We have fewer and fewer
00:50:14
of these assets that actually do the
00:50:17
work and people trust. This plays an
00:50:19
important role in society. I'm hoping
00:50:21
that someone pops up and says, "I'm
00:50:23
putting together a an advisory board of
00:50:26
12 amazing journalists, business people
00:50:29
that will be the oversight board other
00:50:31
than writing a check for $200 million to
00:50:33
subsidize this thing every year, I'm not
00:50:35
going to be involved because I see the
00:50:37
importance." It's the same way someone
00:50:39
writes a one or $200 million check to
00:50:41
their favorite, you know, to Peeta or to
00:50:45
or to uh, you know, Planned Parenthood
00:50:47
or to whatever it might be, PB, what
00:50:50
whatever their philanthropy.
00:50:54
And I say that in the best of terms, and
00:50:56
that is it has a social good, but as a
00:50:59
capitalist endeavor, this [ __ ] just
00:51:01
doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately,
00:51:03
if you got involved without without
00:51:06
having billions of dollars to throw at
00:51:08
the problem, you would just get you
00:51:11
would get all of the frustration with
00:51:12
none of the credit or the appreciation
00:51:14
regardless of your skills in journalism.
00:51:16
So, unless you're willing to partner,
00:51:18
unless you can find a billionaire who
00:51:19
says, "Okay, I'm going to take your
00:51:21
guidance around an advisory board. We're
00:51:24
going to run this thoughtfully. We are
00:51:25
going to impose some discipline on it,
00:51:27
but we're willing to lose a 100red to 2
00:51:29
million million a year. It's just going
00:51:32
to be good money after bad and more
00:51:34
frustration.
00:51:35
>> Could there's no restructuring of this
00:51:36
from your perspective? I mean, it
00:51:38
doesn't have to be what it is, right?
00:51:40
You and I have both started businesses
00:51:41
and quite successful ones
00:51:43
>> unless you're going to milk it. There's
00:51:44
no business here. There's no c there's
00:51:46
no for-profit business here,
00:51:47
>> right? That's what I'm saying. What else
00:51:49
could you imagine it being?
00:51:52
>> I think the What's the one in the London
00:51:54
that you where you live? The Guardian,
00:51:56
right? Don't
00:51:58
>> I think in order to get profits, you
00:52:01
have to engage in rage baiting and AB
00:52:03
testing and a lack of factchecking and
00:52:06
not the New York Times has done
00:52:08
everything right in my view in terms of
00:52:11
investing early in innovation and
00:52:13
technology and it's still a small shitty
00:52:15
business. Only fans will do more revenue
00:52:17
than New York Times this year.
00:52:18
>> Absolutely.
00:52:19
>> So what do you do? I I of course you
00:52:22
invest in digital. Of course you have
00:52:23
more subscription programs. But the the
00:52:26
the only business strategy here is the
00:52:28
following. You have to find a deep
00:52:31
pocketed billionaire who says this is
00:52:33
such an important asset. It has such
00:52:35
positive externalities for our society
00:52:37
that it's worth me cutting a check for
00:52:40
100 to 200 million a year.
00:52:42
>> But the notion that someone's going to
00:52:43
come in and reinvent the Washington Post
00:52:45
with new subscriptions and new ideas.
00:52:47
No, it's not going to happen.
00:52:48
>> I don't think that. Let me tell you. I
00:52:50
think there is I agree with you. It's
00:52:52
not a big and you're right. The New York
00:52:54
Times is incredibly successful and is a
00:52:55
very small business. I wouldn't say it's
00:52:57
a shitty business. It's a small
00:52:58
business, right? It's not Sorry,
00:53:00
Meredith, but it is. It's small, but but
00:53:03
she's done a great job with her small
00:53:04
business.
00:53:05
>> Unbelievable. And it's profitable, which
00:53:06
is great. I wonder if you could do that
00:53:08
here and have a similar juosition
00:53:11
because the Post has always been the
00:53:12
sort of the Jan to Marsha at the New
00:53:16
York Times, right? But I like
00:53:18
>> pretty distant second. I know. Pretty
00:53:20
distant second.
00:53:21
>> It is. And of course the journal is in
00:53:22
there too. And that's going to undergo
00:53:24
something when Rupert goes, you know,
00:53:26
there's that's going to change. Um but
00:53:29
but it's a really interesting to me. I
00:53:31
know it's emotional. I know you know you
00:53:33
think it's emotional, but I always think
00:53:35
like if I was handed CBS, I'm like I
00:53:38
don't know what to do here. like I
00:53:40
wouldn't the post I'm like well what if
00:53:42
we try like it feels like there is some
00:53:45
opportunity here and I don't mean to
00:53:46
make a lot of money that's not what I'm
00:53:48
talking about I'm talking about making
00:53:49
something that is sustainable useful
00:53:53
profitable enough right so that and and
00:53:56
and serves enormous profitable in terms
00:53:59
of society right in helping society and
00:54:02
helping really good journalists do what
00:54:04
they do best and get get out of their
00:54:07
way that's my feel that's how I feel but
00:54:09
you're Right. It's a it's I I was saying
00:54:11
to someone this morning,
00:54:12
>> there's no way you can maintain the
00:54:14
quality of journalism and the
00:54:16
factchecking and the investigative
00:54:17
reporting unless you have someone who
00:54:19
recognizes the public good outweighs the
00:54:22
profit motive here. I agree.
00:54:23
>> And we keep we keep finding new people
00:54:25
who think that they can have both.
00:54:27
>> And the reality is if you want to give
00:54:29
people bodily autonomy and have Planned
00:54:31
Parenthood in Mississippi, you're gonna
00:54:33
lose money. I mean,
00:54:35
>> this is a public good.
00:54:37
>> Yeah. It plays an important role and I
00:54:40
pray I can't for the life of me figure
00:54:42
out why Bezos didn't find
00:54:45
>> this is the bottom line. Republican
00:54:46
billionaires buy football teams,
00:54:48
Democratic billionaires by media
00:54:49
companies.
00:54:50
>> Except turned into whatever he turned
00:54:52
into.
00:54:53
>> Why didn't he call Michael Bloomberg and
00:54:55
say, "Michael, you already have a
00:54:56
newsroom.
00:54:58
>> Take this off my hands for a dollar."
00:55:00
>> Yeah.
00:55:00
>> And Bloomberg, whatever you think of
00:55:02
Michael Bloomberg, he's a hero of mine.
00:55:03
>> Yeah.
00:55:04
>> I think he cares about I think he cares
00:55:05
about democracy. He tries to hit it down
00:55:07
the middle. I think he would do a great
00:55:09
job with the post.
00:55:10
>> Then he's not so insecure as Jeff Bezos
00:55:12
>> and at some point one of these one of
00:55:15
these 30 or 40ome crypto or tech
00:55:18
billionaires is going to pop up. Matthew
00:55:20
Prince from Cloudflare just pulled out
00:55:21
of my ass. He strikes me as a really
00:55:24
thoughtful guy, a really nice man. I'm
00:55:26
like, is your legacy going to be a
00:55:29
cloud-based company or is it going to be
00:55:31
maybe saying journalism is important?
00:55:34
I'm gonna take a billion dollars and
00:55:35
over the next decade I'm gonna make sure
00:55:37
that the Washington Post continues to
00:55:39
have you know
00:55:40
>> or maybe maybe a lot of these people
00:55:43
>> no fear no favor around DC politics or
00:55:45
it's a consortion of them but it but the
00:55:48
first meeting has to be
00:55:50
>> the first meeting has to be stop the
00:55:52
[ __ ] consensual hallucination we're
00:55:53
going to lose $100 million a year.
00:55:55
>> I agree. I agree. And on a personal
00:55:57
level, I have to say when I was talking
00:55:58
to someone this morning who I very much
00:55:59
like I was like, you know, I'm making a
00:56:01
ton of money and I get to do what I want
00:56:03
and it's easy. It's not easy. It's just
00:56:06
pleasurable.
00:56:07
>> Oh, Cara, if I'm telling you, if I were
00:56:09
advising you personally, I'd be like,
00:56:10
don't get [ __ ] near this. Look at
00:56:11
your life right now. You're having an
00:56:13
impact. You're making a [ __ ] ton of
00:56:15
money. You got young kids at home, and
00:56:17
you want to be up late at night talking
00:56:18
to the editor of something, saying why
00:56:20
he's pissed off at you cuz you went from
00:56:21
11 people to N. You don't need this [ __ ]
00:56:23
at this point in your life. Anyway, I I
00:56:25
would say let me just tell you the
00:56:27
please give to their guild. They got
00:56:29
laid off. These are people who've done
00:56:30
an amazing public service and I gave a
00:56:34
substantive amount of money for me um to
00:56:36
them.
00:56:36
>> I'm sorry. I'm I'm going to piss off
00:56:38
everyone. Why are we giving money to
00:56:39
people laid off at the
00:56:40
>> I do that with lots of layoffs, my
00:56:42
friend. You don't know that.
00:56:43
>> You do with the 12,000 people laid off
00:56:44
at Amazon last week.
00:56:45
>> Uh there if there's a fund, I'd be happy
00:56:47
to give to it. Absolutely. I do. I do.
00:56:50
I'm sorry. I do that a lot. You don't
00:56:52
know that. It's a quiet little thing I
00:56:53
do. Um anyway, I will if there's one a
00:56:56
fund for Amazon, please let me know and
00:56:57
I will be happy to give do it.
00:56:59
>> No, you won't. You're not give money to
00:57:01
people laid off at a greedy [ __ ] doesn't
00:57:03
mean I am. I give a lot more money.
00:57:05
>> You really think greedy [ __ ] is the
00:57:06
right? I think you give a I think you're
00:57:09
very generous. I'm just
00:57:10
>> Anyways, I I don't I would I would like
00:57:13
to know what the severance is. I'll give
00:57:15
you an example. This cupcake thing
00:57:17
called sprinkles. the the female
00:57:19
co-founder came on and said, "This is
00:57:21
not what my legacy wanted to be." She
00:57:22
sold the private equity and she gave
00:57:24
people one day's notice when they all
00:57:25
got fired. Those people should be
00:57:27
publicly shamed like crazy. I would like
00:57:30
to know what the severance is for these
00:57:31
300 people, but there are massive
00:57:33
layoffs everywhere.
00:57:34
>> I agree. And also those snake ranking
00:57:38
the snake rank
00:57:38
>> those people who are being laid off.
00:57:40
>> I this is going to sound weird. In some
00:57:43
ways, they're they're going to be better
00:57:44
off. The Washington Post gets very
00:57:46
talented people. In an effort to reduce
00:57:49
costs, they've hired they've gone
00:57:50
younger and younger because younger
00:57:51
people are willing to be underpaid.
00:57:54
You're going to see so many new
00:57:55
substacks.
00:57:56
>> You're going to see so many little puck
00:57:59
is going to hire a bunch of these
00:58:00
people. You're probably going to hire
00:58:02
one or two of these people,
00:58:03
>> maybe.
00:58:04
>> These people are going to go on to
00:58:05
greener pastures as opposed to being
00:58:07
subject to the whims of a billionaire
00:58:09
who wakes up and thinks
00:58:10
>> true. Oh, I don't I don't I don't know
00:58:13
how I feel about the post. Lay off 300
00:58:15
people and keep my distance from it. But
00:58:17
what the [ __ ] is he thinking not finding
00:58:19
someone else to take it off his hands? I
00:58:21
don't get it. I just don't get it.
00:58:22
>> Let me say a lot of the decline
00:58:24
recently. I mean, it's definitely a
00:58:25
secular problem has been directly
00:58:27
because of his stupid ass decisions.
00:58:29
There there was one after the next. So,
00:58:31
a lot of these problems were because of
00:58:33
the way he's been managing this and his
00:58:35
CEO. Let me just say Will Lewis, you
00:58:38
should be ashamed of yourself of how
00:58:39
you've behaved and all your idiotic.
00:58:41
>> We have a bunch of producers at our
00:58:43
different podcast. I don't know if you
00:58:44
can see, I have some of them behind me.
00:58:45
Carrie,
00:58:46
>> I know that. Yeah.
00:58:46
>> But
00:58:47
>> yeah,
00:58:47
>> I I called I sent a message to the woman
00:58:50
who runs our company and said, "We
00:58:52
should be reaching out to some people at
00:58:53
the post. Find people that we love."
00:58:55
>> The post right now is literally a
00:58:57
recruiter's dream.
00:58:58
>> Y
00:58:59
>> everyone at the post, even the ones that
00:59:01
the ones that didn't get laid off, will
00:59:03
return your call right now.
00:59:04
>> Yep. That's true. And these are very I
00:59:05
don't quite frank I I I I feel sorry
00:59:07
from the sense that this was their dream
00:59:09
job. These people are going to be just
00:59:11
fine.
00:59:12
>> Yeah.
00:59:12
>> The these are very talented people. So I
00:59:15
don't
00:59:15
>> I think part of capitalism is
00:59:17
>> I get it.
00:59:18
>> You know if you make if you make it easy
00:59:20
to fire people, you make it easy to hire
00:59:22
them. I think I would bet 95% of these
00:59:24
people in two years look back on this
00:59:26
and go, "Yeah, I miss it."
00:59:28
>> Yeah, a lot of them.
00:59:28
>> It was great training and I'm making
00:59:30
more money and having more impact and
00:59:32
more relevance now.
00:59:33
>> You are fun. Yeah, it's true.
00:59:34
>> And I don't have to wake up and hear
00:59:35
what a guy in parting in St. Barts
00:59:37
thinks about layoffs. I don't
00:59:40
>> It's true. It's true. But in any case,
00:59:42
Jeff, you're such an [ __ ] Anyway, uh
00:59:45
one more quick break. We'll be back for
00:59:47
predictions. Okay, Scott, let's uh hear
00:59:50
a prediction. Um I I'm going to um take
00:59:54
a moment though uh before you do that uh
00:59:57
to say uh Savannah Guthri's family uh
01:00:00
with their mom missing. I know I've met
01:00:02
her mom. She's amazing. I I hope I hope
01:00:06
hope they find her alive. And it's so
01:00:09
sad what's happening. It's getting far
01:00:11
too much. Like the media is sort of
01:00:13
jumping all over it in kind of an
01:00:15
unourred way. But if that helps get her
01:00:17
back, I'm all for it. Um but I just want
01:00:20
to send my love out to her family. She
01:00:23
They're wonderful people.
01:00:25
It's really interesting, isn't it, how
01:00:28
some stories really kind of I mean
01:00:30
35,000 people have supposedly been
01:00:32
murdered in Iran.
01:00:33
>> Yeah.
01:00:34
>> And but this story really hits you
01:00:36
because a people really really
01:00:38
appreciate and have a lot of fondness
01:00:40
for Savannah,
01:00:41
>> but occasionally there's a story and it
01:00:43
just it grabs you, right? I mean, this
01:00:45
story this story has really grabbed
01:00:47
people because
01:00:48
>> this is kind of everyone's
01:00:50
>> nightmare, not knowing what's happening,
01:00:52
not knowing what's going on. Mhm.
01:00:54
>> But I I was really struck at how and it
01:00:56
it's nice that occasionally people slow
01:00:58
down and when they hear an individual
01:01:00
story, it really moves them. And I think
01:01:02
actually I think the attention being
01:01:03
brought to it is probably a good thing.
01:01:05
I think there's a lot if anyone sees her
01:01:07
mom they're going to know it.
01:01:08
>> That's right.
01:01:09
>> Right. That's right.
01:01:10
>> And so I think it's
01:01:11
>> Anyways, I I
01:01:12
>> there's a surprising not big number of
01:01:14
kidnappings too like in this country.
01:01:16
>> It's very rare.
01:01:17
>> Yeah.
01:01:18
>> We all talk about the fear of kids and
01:01:20
kidnapping.
01:01:20
>> It's all over TV, but it's not true.
01:01:22
It's it's very it's very very rare.
01:01:26
>> Right. All right. Let's hear a
01:01:27
prediction from you.
01:01:29
>> Effectively, I don't know if this is
01:01:31
really good news, but essentially
01:01:33
um there are social media bans breaking
01:01:37
out all over the world. Norway has a
01:01:39
complete ban under 13. Belgium requires
01:01:41
children under 13 to have parental
01:01:42
permission. Germany requires parental
01:01:44
consent for users aged 13 to 16. Italy
01:01:47
requires parental consent at signup for
01:01:49
users under the age of 14. And Spain
01:01:51
just announced that it's going to um it
01:01:55
uh it's the latest country. They're
01:01:57
banning social media kids under 16. 82%
01:02:00
of Spaniards support banning social
01:02:01
media for kids under 14. Greece is also
01:02:04
nearing a social media ban for children
01:02:05
under 15. Australia's implemented a
01:02:08
similar ban. I also just a shout out to
01:02:10
my colleague Jonathan Height. I think
01:02:11
this would have happened anyway, but
01:02:12
he's expedited it and I think he
01:02:14
deserves a lot of credit for this. Um, I
01:02:17
mean, if you, for those of you thinking
01:02:18
about going to academia, you can go into
01:02:21
academia, study social science, get a
01:02:23
PhD in psychology, and someday get
01:02:25
entire nations to ban phones in schools.
01:02:27
So, to think that academics don't
01:02:30
matter, it's you can have a lot of
01:02:32
impact. Anyways, that's not my
01:02:35
prediction. Um, my prediction is that
01:02:37
this is essentially not only common
01:02:40
sense around our children, but this is
01:02:42
the beginning of reciprocal tariffs.
01:02:46
What do I mean by that? Other nations
01:02:49
are sick of the sclerotic, irrational,
01:02:51
punitive economic warfare that the Trump
01:02:54
administration has levied on them with
01:02:56
tariffs. And their tariffs are the
01:02:58
following. They're going to start
01:02:59
banning our social media platforms. Uh
01:03:02
the UK is already going after X. You are
01:03:05
going to start to see over the course of
01:03:07
the next 12 to 24 months entire nations
01:03:10
say, you know what, maybe we don't need
01:03:12
YouTube here. Maybe Meta should not be
01:03:15
here. May and they'll they'll blanket
01:03:17
>> Zoom. I think France is stopping using
01:03:19
Zoom in the government.
01:03:20
>> They're going to blanket in, okay, Meta
01:03:22
is bad for children, which is true. But
01:03:25
the real motivation in my view is going
01:03:27
to be like, you know what, we're kind of
01:03:29
sick. If you're going to start making it
01:03:31
harder for Americans to buy our Mercedes
01:03:34
and our Vuitton, we're going to make it
01:03:36
harder for people to watch YouTube and
01:03:38
be on Instagram. I think European
01:03:41
nations and the rest of the G7 are sick
01:03:43
of big tech coming in sucking
01:03:46
billions of dollars out of their economy
01:03:48
in exchange for opening a Facebook
01:03:50
office in Milan. Their newspapers are
01:03:53
going out of business. Their media
01:03:54
companies are going out of business.
01:03:55
Their manufacturers are going out of
01:03:57
business. And this is essentially the
01:03:59
thing that is tipping these companies
01:04:01
over and giving them the backbone to
01:04:02
start banning these things. And it's
01:04:04
going to go up the food chain pretty
01:04:05
soon. you're going to see a large nation
01:04:08
say, "You know what? I don't think we
01:04:10
need Google."
01:04:12
So, this is while it's being done under
01:04:14
the very righteous and worthwhile cause
01:04:16
of protecting children, which I
01:04:17
celebrate and I think is important.
01:04:19
Effectively, what this is is a
01:04:21
reciprocal tariff. And pretty soon, it's
01:04:23
going to start creeping up. You know
01:04:24
what's going to happen? Big countries
01:04:26
are going to decide, you know what? We
01:04:28
no longer want to use Goldman Sachs and
01:04:29
McKenzie to do our banking. If you're
01:04:33
gonna start [ __ ] with us, we're gonna
01:04:35
start [ __ ] with you.
01:04:36
>> Speaking of consumers, they're
01:04:37
consumers, so they can speak with their
01:04:39
they can walk. They can walk. That's the
01:04:41
>> I love the idea of consumers speaking
01:04:43
with their with their spending power. I
01:04:45
think it makes all the sense.
01:04:46
>> I know you do. That's why you look like
01:04:47
a like a unsuccessful pimp this week.
01:04:50
What's your outfit for next week?
01:04:52
>> I don't know. I'm thinking I bought I
01:04:54
I'll give you a hint. I'll I'll give you
01:04:55
a hint.
01:04:56
>> Okay.
01:04:56
>> I have a hockey jersey and I'm not
01:04:58
wearing any pants.
01:04:58
>> Oh, nice. That's good. Good. Be on
01:05:00
brand. That's perfect. That's perfect.
01:05:02
on trend and on brand. Uh that's a
01:05:04
really that's really important, Scott,
01:05:05
and I think you're right. This is there
01:05:06
are before when when these Europe was
01:05:10
not innovative the way the US has been
01:05:12
and all these services. There are
01:05:13
alternates right now. There are so many
01:05:15
alternates to everything. If the if
01:05:18
Silicon Valley thinks they hung the
01:05:19
[ __ ] moon, well, they did. They might
01:05:21
have, but no longer. And there are
01:05:23
alternates in every single category now
01:05:27
that you don't have to put up with the
01:05:29
ridiculous
01:05:31
midlife crisis antics of Jeff Bezos or
01:05:34
whatever whatever fresh hell Meta is
01:05:36
going to unleash upon us. There are
01:05:39
choices now and some of them might be
01:05:41
China by the way and that's that's
01:05:43
saying a lot if they're that's where
01:05:44
they're going. So I agree with you. I
01:05:46
think it's really important. Um just so
01:05:48
you know everyone we will talk about
01:05:50
molt book and open claw next week. It's
01:05:52
fine. Agent to agent was always the
01:05:54
plan, but um we'll talk about that. It's
01:05:56
interesting. And we also will talk about
01:05:58
um section 230. There's been a new bill
01:06:00
to overturn and replace it. Um oddly
01:06:03
enough, I ran into uh Joseph Gordon
01:06:05
Levit this week and he was here helping.
01:06:07
We'll talk about that next week because
01:06:08
section 230 is really interesting. I had
01:06:10
some really interesting discussions with
01:06:11
him and others about it.
01:06:12
>> Can I just say I love the image of you
01:06:14
being barely able to see over the mail
01:06:16
card going around and people mistaking
01:06:18
you for a 15-year-old boy. Can I just
01:06:20
say I love that image.
01:06:22
>> I love that you started the Washington
01:06:24
Post mail room. That is really cool.
01:06:26
>> It was I I reorganized it. It was so
01:06:28
messy. I reorganized all the boxes cuz
01:06:30
I'm so anal retentive. I remember doing
01:06:32
that. They're like, "What are you
01:06:34
doing?" I'm like, "This is inefficient."
01:06:35
And I was like in college.
01:06:37
>> It's true. I was slightly
01:06:40
>> fella. Don't worry, you'll grow. Oh,
01:06:41
wait. No, that's Caris Fisher.
01:06:43
>> Anyway, they didn't know my name at all.
01:06:45
And let me tell you, from doing that,
01:06:48
>> everybody who was talented was nice to
01:06:50
me. Untalented people were [ __ ] It
01:06:52
was really
01:06:52
>> I wor in a mail room. I worked in the
01:06:54
mail room of Southwestern University
01:06:55
School of Law where my mom ran the
01:06:57
secretarial pool and we used to have
01:06:58
lunch together.
01:06:59
>> And here we are together without my
01:07:02
picture behind you. Anyway, I'm not
01:07:04
offended.
01:07:04
>> But here's the thing. I'm going to have
01:07:05
to move to a [ __ ] everyone's all over
01:07:07
me. You selling your Apple stock? Did
01:07:09
you unsubscribe this? I'm going to have
01:07:10
to move to Ted Kazinsk's shed and have
01:07:12
no entertainment and have a ham radio
01:07:15
cuz I'm running out of things to
01:07:17
unsubscribe to.
01:07:19
>> I wanted to watch I've been binging that
01:07:21
I've been binging that gay hockey thing
01:07:23
which I think could easily turn me
01:07:24
something.
01:07:25
>> Yay. What do you think really quickly?
01:07:27
What do you That's is funny because
01:07:28
we'll have a bonus episode tomorrow. I
01:07:31
spoke to the executive producers of
01:07:32
Heated Rivalry about how they made the
01:07:34
breakout hit for a fraction of the cost
01:07:35
of other major streaming shows and what
01:07:37
they've got coming next. What do you
01:07:38
think so far? I made Scott watch Peter
01:07:41
>> Riley. I think it's an important series
01:07:42
for young men to watch because there's
01:07:44
different forms of leadership and
01:07:45
masculinity and empathy and love and
01:07:48
sexual identity. And I I got to be
01:07:51
honest, Cara, every time I see something
01:07:52
like this, I'm reminded of how many
01:07:55
people I lost to AIDS back in the in the
01:07:58
'9s. And I don't think I hope and trust
01:08:00
that young people and especially gay men
01:08:03
realize how important science is and how
01:08:06
fortunate they are and that America has
01:08:08
made a lot of progress around these
01:08:09
issues. Uh I can't watch anything about
01:08:12
gay men and not think about the '9s.
01:08:14
>> You and I both. Absolutely. Anyway, I'm
01:08:16
so glad you're watching it. I hope I
01:08:17
can't wait till you get to episode five.
01:08:20
Anyway, we want to hear from you and we
01:08:22
have some homework for our listeners
01:08:23
today. Send us a message about your
01:08:25
favorite or least favorite Super Bowl ad
01:08:27
after the big game on Sunday. We love
01:08:29
the anthropic one.
01:08:30
>> Also, I woke up this morning in a
01:08:31
Toronto Maple Leafs jersey, a half
01:08:33
bottle drink of Jack, and a condom
01:08:34
hanging out of my ass. I don't know if
01:08:36
that has anything to do with anything.
01:08:38
>> We're taking that out. Go to
01:08:40
nymag.com/pivot
01:08:42
or call 8551
01:08:44
pivot. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for
01:08:46
listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and
01:08:48
subscribe, not unsubscribe, to our
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01:08:53
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