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i'm robbie shell with knowledge at
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wharton and i'm here today with sabria
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tenburkin and paul cronenberg
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co-founders of a school for blind
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children in tibet
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sabria who was born in germany and has
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been blind since 12
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attended the university of bonn and
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studied among other things
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the cultures of central asia from there
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she traveled on her own to china and
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then to tibet
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where she translated the tibetan
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language into braille
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and with paul whom she met in nepal they
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co-founded the school
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called appropriately enough braille
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without borders
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the two were also part of an expedition
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that led blind children
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up a 23 000 foot mountain next to mount
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everest
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the expedition was chronicled in an
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award-winning documentary called
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blindsight
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in 2009 the two of them started an
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educational and training institute
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in kerala india called kantari
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international
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its goal is to train disadvantaged
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people and help them become social
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entrepreneurs
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so it's very hard to summarize
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everything you've done but can you start
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by telling me sabria a little bit about
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kanthari and the motivation for setting
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it up
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okay kantari is a leadership training
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center for social visionaries from
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all around the world and these are very
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very special social
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visionaries these are people who have
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overcome adversity in their life who
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have been
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affected by social ill and who want to
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create an ethical social change
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in their regions and countries for
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example through schools campaigns
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movements and so on and so forth
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all right paul how can you give me some
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examples of exactly how successful these
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students have been
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well we have in the last five years we
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trained 98
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visionaries from 35 countries around the
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world and people went back to their
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country to start their social projects
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we have women fighting the killing of
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albinos albinos are unfortunately being
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killed and chopped up in pieces in their
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body parts hold us good luck charms
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this is in east africa and kenya we have
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a lady from kenya who's fighting female
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circumcision
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we have ex-child soldiers from liberia
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or sierra leone
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who now support street children who
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mostly ex-child soldiers
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and they teach them skills other than
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killing people so there's a lot of
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different areas where we're working in
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we work with blindness we work people
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that are handicapped we have
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people that are affected by wars people
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are affected by discrimination
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and they go back so they come to us for
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a seven months course
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they go back and create a social impact
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within their own community
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so you're definitely involved in the
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whole area of social entrepreneurship
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which is a pretty hot term these days
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um and i'm wondering what have you found
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works in this area and what doesn't work
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sabria maybe you could answer that
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yeah first of all i ha i have a problem
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with the term
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social entrepreneurship because it's um
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people say
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only business helps to make the world a
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better place
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and i don't really agree we
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feel that there are many many other
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methods and tools
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that need to be focused on to make
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a sustainable difference so for example
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people need
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to create mindset changes through for
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example training centers
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or schools and a school cannot always be
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run as a business or should not be run
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as a business
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a campaign is not always a business so i
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think
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it's very very important to also
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concentrate
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focus on other skills for example social
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advocacy
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initiatives inventions art art for
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social change
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also very very important paul what does
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it take
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do you think for an individual to be a
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successful social entrepreneur
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i think the the one of the most
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important parts of being successful is
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the drive
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and an inner drive and what we've looked
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at if you look at the history of the
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world and how
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so sustainable social change has
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happened it always came from within
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and from within society never came from
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outside so what we looked at is we
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looked at people that have a drive
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where do people get a drive from and
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that is if they if somebody's been
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affected by social ill in such a bad way
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that they at some point come up and say
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like i now stop now i've got to do
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something and we call that the gandhi
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moment
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on the pinching pinching point so ghani
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was kicked out of the train in south
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africa he had a first class ticket
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because his skin collect was kicked out
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and at that moment he became the gun
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we know today and this is what we look
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for in any individual that we
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train in our in our kantari training
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course
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maybe one thing about kantari kantari is
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a very very small chile
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in kerala it grows in the backyards of
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society
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in the backyards of of the of um of
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kerala's
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yards and it's very small but highly
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spicy
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and it is medicinal so it purifies the
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blood it makes you very very alert
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it lowers the blood pressure so it's
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very very healthy
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for the people and we see kantari as a
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symbol
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for a new type of old and new type of
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leader
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somebody who has fire in the belly who
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has spice in their action who
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is able or has the guts to challenge the
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status quo
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and someone who comes up with innovative
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and new solutions for old and new
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problems and and therefore we call
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these leaders countries gotcha
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so some people might say that the
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business uh
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field has co-opted social
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entrepreneurship or tried to co-opt it
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in in a way that
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has good connotations and bad
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connotations but you do see a role for
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the business community
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in this area is that correct paul yes um
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business definitely plays a role and
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what we've done is uh cantare
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our logo has five colors and we looked
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at five colors because
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there is one particular color it's our
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orange that's the business
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person that has a business a mind of a
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business mindset
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because they use business to create
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social change um
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but we have other callers as well and as
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somebody mentioned the green one is for
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initiators
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that are people that start up projects
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like schools and training centers and
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these always cost money
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but what we look at is we see that if
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people want to invest money
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and unfortunately in the world today the
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return of investment
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is measured in one dimension only and
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that is money
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and what we see is a return of
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investment in a better world
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so if people want to invest in a green
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cantari that is someone who sets up a
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project where people are trained who are
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affected by or from the margins of
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society
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but that results in a better world in
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the long term it's a good investment
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and you have a yellow kantari which is
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technology and we feel that everybody
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who needs technology
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that to be part in society to take part
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in society like for sabria akane
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or a braille typewriter or speech
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synthesizer that should come at low or
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no cost
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so that's the sharing of of technology
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the orange one is the business
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then we've got the red ones these are
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the advocates
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the gandhis the sabrias people that
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fight for rights or fight against
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injustice
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and then we've got the purple ones and
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these are the the artists the stars
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in in india there's one famous person is
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shahrukh khan
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and shahrukh khan goes dish dish and
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everybody buys a dish
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to watch tv can you imagine if he would
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say solar solar
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and that would be solar energy right
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interesting
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so sabria you've made headlines for many
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things you rode into
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into tibet on a horse long after you
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became blind you've
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co-set up with paul the school for
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tibetan blind children and
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and you have taken a leading role uh in
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the in the documentary
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all along your philosophy has been to
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never consider blind people
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as victims to never consider that
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they're anything less
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than sighted people how difficult has
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that been to sustain
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and and has the prejudice against blind
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people
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lightened up at all i have the feeling
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that
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in tibet there is a change because our
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kids
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they're going out with their little
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kitty canes and
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they demonstrate that they have a role
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to play in the society of um off tibet
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um so so they really make a difference
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people
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normally uh came to to lasa from the
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outside
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and and when they saw a blind person
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they would would shout
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like chargo or shara and that means
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nothing less than blind fool and
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nowadays actually these kids they just
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turn around and they say well
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can you read and write in the dark can
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you speak three languages fluently
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and of course they cannot and these kids
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they
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are actually confident enough to show to
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the world
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well blindness is not necessarily
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a disability it can be a quality of life
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i
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give you one example um kimi for example
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he's
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he's a little boy he was a little boy
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and he was sitting in the courtyard
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and he was smiling from ear to ear and
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we were
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coming to the courtyard and say hey give
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me what's up and he said
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i'm so happy i said why are you happy
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he says i'm happy because i am blind
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now when you say this to a sighted
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person he said no this is not possible
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you know but this little boy he knows
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he's the only one
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in his family who can read and write
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he's the only one
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in his village who can speak three
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languages fluently tibetan chinese and
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and english and he's the only one in his
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whole region
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who can serve in the internet and who
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knows that the world is round
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and this despite the fact or actually
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because of the fact that he is blind
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and this creates a change in the blind
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in the confident of the blind in the
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confidence of the blind but
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also in society who understands we
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should concentrate
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on the possibilities not necessarily on
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the disabilities
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so this could be true for any disability
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if you're deaf absolutely
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if you are if you have a problem walking
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and there are so many disabilities that
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we don't even see
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people who are scared to talk to
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outsiders people who are scared to
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go into the city my god this is really a
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disability
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well interesting so sabria why did you
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why did you study central asia when you
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were a student what was it that first
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got your interest going there well
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mainly it was um it was the urge to have
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adventure to have an adventurous life
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and also to escape from germany where
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everybody knew
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what i could do and what i could not do
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and i wanted to test my own limits i
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wanted to
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overcome these limits and maybe get even
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a step higher
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and for me tibet was probably the most
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adventurous place
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to be and yeah and i love horses
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i love mountains i love kayaking white
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water kayaking um
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and and that was a very egoistic reason
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why i studied hepatology at first
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later um responsibility for this project
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are
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the the enthusiasm for
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creating something for blind kids came
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along with it
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so you have the drive that you look for
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and all the people who come to kontari
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yes that's right yeah um
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the documentary blind site was so
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amazing and i hope everyone
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has a chance to watch it like i did
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what i thought was so impressive was how
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you were able to chronicle the lives of
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these six
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tibetan kids along with the the
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challenges that you all faced
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climbing up 23 000 feet i still
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am not sure where the name blind site
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came by came from and paul i wonder if
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you could explain that
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i think sabri is the better one to
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explain that
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so blindsiders actually
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it's it's something that some
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people have it's a shortcut in the brain
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where the visual cortex
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thinks that one still sees despite the
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fact that
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this person doesn't actually see a bit
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and actually i'm
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i probably most likely have blindside
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because
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what happens now when we are sitting
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here in this room and i look at you and
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i look at you
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i actually see you sitting there
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but in fact i don't see anything i mean
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people can test it
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i don't see a thing i don't see light
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and dark but i
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see you sitting there i see long blonde
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hair
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i see that you wear glasses
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well if this is true or not i don't care
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you know
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i don't really it doesn't matter and it
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doesn't matter
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and but but my visual cortex thinks
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that everything that comes into my mind
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from the outside whether it's
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acoustically or
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through smell or through through touch
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that this is actually a picture that i
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got through my
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eyes and this is called blind side
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i can add maybe one anecdote to that
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blind people are not disappointed by
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reality
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as long as they don't know reality so
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sabrina when we first met
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in tibet sabria thought i had dark hair
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black hair from my voice
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and blue eyes and blue eyes and she
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likes dark hair and blue
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so she she went home she took a lot of
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pictures and i happened to be on some of
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the pictures and she went home to her
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parents and friends and they asked who's
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the blonde guy in your pictures and she
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said one guy
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i don't know it must have right in front
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of my camera so then uh half a year
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later we met and then
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saria said well paul you were there and
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maybe you know who this blonde guy is in
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my pictures and i said well that's me
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and then she was very nice wow
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um so throughout all these
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initiatives that you've undertaken and
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the successes and the stresses
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what's been your most difficult
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challenge paul maybe you can tell me
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first and then i'll ask sabrina okay i
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think one of the most difficult
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challenges that people that
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don't believe in big dreams and believe
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in our dreams
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and i think this is the this is a big
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obstacle for
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progress at large in our world is that
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people don't believe in dreams of others
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and that people say and that dreaming
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has a negative connotation and i have to
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tell you just a small anecdote on that
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as well because
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with our students when they first came
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to us they came from dark rooms they
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were
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locked out of society and when they
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first came to us we thought how can we
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give them hope for the future
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because every person has to have that
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and we gave it a long thought and we
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came up with something beautiful and we
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we started a dream
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factory and we asked our students what
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is it that you
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want to do and this doesn't count only
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for blind kids it's for everyone in the
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world
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what do you want to do not your parents
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your brothers your sisters
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you it's your life you got to work for
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40 years
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can you imagine you do something that
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you don't love doing yeah we come you
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become one of the thank god it's friday
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people you don't want to be there so
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we gave this to our students and one
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week after we asked them you know to
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share their dreams
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and there's nobu is eight years old
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there's a big smile on his face and he
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says
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i want to become a taxi driver
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the only problem is you can't see right
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so but if you look at all the taxi
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drivers anywhere in the world you think
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they were blind anyway
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so we never say that something is not
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possible that's why it's braille without
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borders that's the borders the mental
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bonus so two years later we said
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fantastic
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two years later we asked we asked nobu
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what about your dream
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and then he said with a smile his face
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he said well now i know that i can't
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become a taxi driver because that's
00:15:31
rather dangerous but i could set up a
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taxi company and run it
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10 years old and that's what it's about
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and i think that's what
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our biggest problem was that people
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didn't believe in our dream and
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of course then you have to be stubborn
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and you have to find a team to work
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together and to make it happen
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now in kerala in in kantari we have
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a global dream factory a springboard for
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dreamers or for social visionaries
00:15:55
who create their visions and we are all
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believers in these visions therefore we
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select them carefully of course also you
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know
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but they have huge dreams you know but
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um
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the the great thing is we encourage them
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to dream and we make
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we give them tools to realize their
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dreams
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um we have international experts who are
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there to
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teach or to catalyze them to push them
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forward
00:16:20
to make their dreams come true and um
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and the thing is with with the country
00:16:24
you know everyone experience when they
00:16:27
have big dreams people say oh it's not
00:16:29
possible
00:16:30
stay on the ground don't grab for the
00:16:32
stars you know
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and here they can just say just bite
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into a country
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and you know that a small chile can make
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a huge difference
00:16:41
right and this is what they learn in our
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kerala center
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but in terms of specific challenges is
00:16:48
it
00:16:48
funding is funding difficult is it um
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getting people to buy into the project
00:16:53
what what is it
00:16:54
well funding of course is is a is a
00:16:56
major challenge what we do and what i
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mentioned before as well it's
00:16:59
um the return of investment for a lot of
00:17:01
people is money
00:17:02
and what sabri and i strongly believe in
00:17:04
that return of investment is a better
00:17:06
world because if you look at the
00:17:07
state of the world we're not we're in a
00:17:09
bad shape and
00:17:10
we have there's plenty of money there's
00:17:12
plenty of resources but it's not been
00:17:14
divided in such way or used in such way
00:17:16
that the return of investment comes
00:17:18
in the form of access to clean drinking
00:17:20
water access to health care
00:17:21
access to food access to elderly care
00:17:24
access to education
00:17:25
we can shoot something right now there
00:17:26
is this probe that went to this
00:17:30
asteroid we can do all that we shoot
00:17:32
rovers to mars
00:17:34
and we can't solve these problems and
00:17:36
that's what we believe very strongly and
00:17:38
so
00:17:38
if people are in a position to invest in
00:17:41
a better future by supporting
00:17:43
for example kantari or any other ngo in
00:17:45
your neighborhood that would be a
00:17:46
fantastic thing
00:17:47
the second thing how we can be helped
00:17:49
where people can support us is by
00:17:50
talking about
00:17:51
the existence that we are there that we
00:17:53
have this because we have people from
00:17:55
around the world
00:17:56
that never had a chance to go to wharton
00:17:58
or to go to other big places we take
00:18:00
them
00:18:01
so if people can help spread the news
00:18:03
that country exists
00:18:04
and knows about anyone anywhere in the
00:18:06
world that carries a plan for social
00:18:08
change
00:18:09
and then link them to our website
00:18:11
kantari.org
00:18:12
then they can apply there for the seven
00:18:14
months course well you may regret saying
00:18:15
this because you may be deluged
00:18:17
well we hope we're going to have a lot
00:18:18
of people applying because we want to
00:18:20
work with the best people that really
00:18:21
make it
00:18:21
make an impact and a positive impact in
00:18:24
this world and for those who cannot
00:18:27
start their own project but who want to
00:18:29
help others
00:18:30
i mean a scholarship would be for
00:18:32
example an investment
00:18:34
not in a in one individual
00:18:37
but really in the start of a project and
00:18:40
for that actually we have a um
00:18:42
we have a a bank account here in in
00:18:45
america
00:18:46
we've got a 501 c 3 status so that's a
00:18:48
good right so nonprofit
00:18:49
um sabria you have received so many
00:18:52
different awards
00:18:54
from so many different institutions and
00:18:56
and individuals including just to name a
00:18:58
few the world economic forum the
00:19:00
president of germany
00:19:02
time magazine the government of india
00:19:04
one year you were nominated for the
00:19:06
nobel peace prize
00:19:07
i'm guessing that these awards don't
00:19:09
mean that much to you but if you had to
00:19:11
pick one that did mean a lot
00:19:12
what would it be
00:19:16
yeah of course awards are always
00:19:19
good to know that we our projects our
00:19:22
ideas are taken seriously
00:19:24
and and therefore i was actually quite
00:19:27
happy about
00:19:28
this one award that the chinese
00:19:30
government gave us
00:19:32
um telling or with this award they
00:19:35
said that we belong to the 15 most
00:19:38
influential people or
00:19:39
influential foreigners in the last 30
00:19:42
years and that was in china yeah
00:19:46
so so that was an award that actually
00:19:49
showed us that they don't only believe
00:19:52
in women
00:19:53
for one thing but actually they believe
00:19:56
and that
00:19:57
people who are handicapped or people who
00:20:00
have
00:20:00
a so-called disability who are blind can
00:20:03
actually be influential and can be
00:20:06
contributors
00:20:07
in a huge society like china
00:20:11
which i think could be done
00:20:14
much much more in other countries as
00:20:16
well that
00:20:17
that they show with awards to disabled
00:20:20
people
00:20:21
that they believe in the qualities and
00:20:23
in the importance of
00:20:25
people with disabilities very nice
00:20:28
so my last question for you is
00:20:31
i don't want to be so crassus to say
00:20:34
what's your five-year plan or your
00:20:36
10-year plan
00:20:37
but i will say what what lies ahead
00:20:39
where do you see yourselves going with
00:20:41
all this where do you see your energies
00:20:42
being concentrated are there new
00:20:44
projects or
00:20:45
is it expanding where you are now
00:20:48
what's up there okay well we um we have
00:20:51
set up
00:20:51
in tibet with our borders we set up
00:20:53
kantari in the south of india and
00:20:55
um of course most of our participants in
00:20:58
in kantari come from africa
00:21:00
that's and that's where we're now
00:21:01
looking at uh to create another campus
00:21:03
in africa um so that we have well
00:21:07
two places maybe it's it's gonna be
00:21:09
qantari africa
00:21:10
it's gonna be kantari asia maybe there
00:21:11
will be a cantari america one day
00:21:13
uh but the first one the first focus i
00:21:15
think will be cantari africa in
00:21:16
the next few years supreme does that
00:21:19
sound
00:21:21
absolutely because it's another support
00:21:23
adventure for me
00:21:25
i've never been to africa i have a lot
00:21:27
of african friends and of course a lot
00:21:29
of african students participants who
00:21:31
were at our center and i
00:21:35
love the people i love the cultures
00:21:38
yes and it's definitely a new adventure
00:21:41
but of course we also will will have one
00:21:44
lag in india for sure
00:21:46
well thank you both for coming and best
00:21:48
of luck thank you
00:22:11
you
