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our guest today is michael feinberg
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co-founder of the knowledge is power
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program
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kip foundation
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he launched kip in 1994 with his partner
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dave levin
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today almost 20 years later it has grown
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into a network of 141
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high-performing schools
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in 20 states all over the u.s
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the network serves more than 50 000
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students
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most of whom are from low-income
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african-american or latino families
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mike thank you so much for joining us
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today thank you for having me here it's
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a pleasure
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now before you started kipp you taught
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third grade
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fifth grade for three years as part of
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the teach for america program
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could you tell me the story of
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your first teaching experience and how
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that led to the creation of kip
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sure actually i taught fifth grade for
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two years before
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starting the knowledge of power program
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in our third year uh we were 19 we were
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both 1992 teacher america corps members
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placed in houston and i was a fifth
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grade bilingual teacher teaching
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bilingual because i had a pulse
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there was such a shortage at the time
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dave was on another part of town
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teaching upper elementary as well and
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like all first-year teachers we were
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horrible teachers in fact i think that
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we probably gave everyone a run for the
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money for being the worst of the
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horrible teachers um we latched on to
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master teachers we learned how to teach
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you learn how to teach with
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apprenticeship
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the end of our first year we thought we
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were doing a pretty good job with our
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kids they loved learning they came
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excited about school and wanted to go to
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college and have a career we very
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naively thought we've done it on the
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k-12 assembly line we gave our kids a
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great fifth grade year opted to go on to
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bigger and better in middle school
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and that naive bubble burst about the
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second week into our second year of
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teaching when we watched our former kids
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start to just utterly fail and have the
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wheels come off in middle school and
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they were escaping school and joining
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gangs and doing drugs becoming parents
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alarming rates and the first was easy to
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blame the other schools and teachers
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and one night in late 1993 we had this
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epiphany that all that finger pointing
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was adding to the problem not
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contributing to a solution so we looked
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in the mirror we point the finger at
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ourselves
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we stayed up all night pouring our
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feelings of failure and frustration on
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the computer screen watch uh had you two
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oktong baby playing around repeat play
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and by about five o'clock in the morning
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we had the knowledge's power program kip
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on the computer screen and the premise
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of kit back then 20 years ago it is
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today is very simply there are no
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shortcuts if we're going to try to
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provide children with all the academic
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intellectual and character skills they
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need to do well not just in that grade
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level but in all facets of the k-12
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college and the competitive world beyond
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then quit looking for the magic bullet
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let's just roll up our sleeves and get
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after it and so we started the knowledge
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power program thinking what can we do
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with fifth grade teachers everybody
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decided we were going to motivate kids
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to go to school from 7 30 to 5 4 hours
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on saturdays half the summer two hours
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of homework at night
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and we quickly realized one year was
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enough and so that's when we turned it
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into a school and now it's become a
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network of schools
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got it i'll come back a little bit to to
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to to the nature of the program but uh
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sticking for uh for now to
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the way you built kip what were some of
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the biggest challenges that you faced in
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the beginning and how did you overcome
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them the biggest challenge by far in the
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early years remains the biggest
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challenge today which is
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on
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any given day in any given hour in any
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given class period with any given
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student
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teaching and learning is extremely
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difficult it's
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everyone thinks that they know how to do
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it well because we've all got 13 14 15
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years of experience in k-12 but
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actually being in front of a group of
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children and and
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and imparting knowledge for from your
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brain heart into the brain heart of a 5
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10 or 15 year old is an extremely
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difficult both art and science to do now
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that and to do it at a high level is the
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most difficult part about this the the
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other most difficult part is simply
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getting people to believe having putting
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forth an idea for a program and then a
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school that's going to end mass help
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underserved children succeed in school
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and life at the highest levels of
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society most people think you have two
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heads when you first say that now we've
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come a long way since the early 90s and
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more people believed today than did 20
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years ago but collectively we don't yet
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believe in a society
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that the achievement gap is something
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that we can overcome and that's what we
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are trying to demonstrate and prove
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every single day that it can
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let's go back to
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talking about the basic structure of the
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program uh the no shortcuts approach
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is this something that you started with
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or is it something that evolved over
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time and how is your your the the basic
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uh
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structure of of kip uh the
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education model evolved over the past 20
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years right uh the basic structure still
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in place i think i think the the most
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innovative part of kipp over the years
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is that we didn't try to be innovative
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we just tried to block and tackle really
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well we focused early on
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ourselves on just what could we do to
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become great teachers and to this day
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that that's the focus it's great great
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teaching um any school in the world
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that's doing a great job i'd argue has
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two basic ingredients it's great
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teaching and more of it that's simple
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now easy to say hard to do but it's a
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simple formula if there's any secret
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sauce is how do you create the culture
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that's such a great positive culture
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that allows great teaching and more of
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it to happen
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but that basic structure of longer
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school day week and year and focus on
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great teaching and learning and having a
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culture of high expectations and
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focusing on not just inputs but the
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ultimate output which is getting our
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kids to go to and through college and
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have the freedom to do this for what
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they want to do those things were put in
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place from the very beginning and we're
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focused on executing on those things day
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in and day out the last thing i think
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i'd say that is there from the beginning
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is our core beliefs
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and i think one of our most central core
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beliefs
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is that promises to children are sacred
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because kipp is a choice public school
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we we sit in living rooms and kitchen
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tables talking to kids and parents
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saying if you choose to come to kipp we
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will do whatever it takes to help you
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come to we will we'll do whatever it
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takes to help you get to and through
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college
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that that's a pretty bold promise
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because we're not talking about what
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we're going to do for that kin family
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next week next month next year sometimes
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not even next decade we're promising
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what's going to happen in 20 years in
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some cases and we're on the hook and
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that's something that we feel more
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accountable to that sacred promise then
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any accountability plan any state or
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federal government can lay on us and i
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think that that's what gets us out of
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bed in the morning and that's what
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motivates us to do right by our kids and
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parents and our communities do the kids
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and the parents also make a similar
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promise and and and uh so is is your
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approach to select the most highly
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motivated uh kids and people we don't
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select our kids and parents they select
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us
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uh it's a it's a public open enrollment
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school which means anyone can can come
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if there's if more kids and parents want
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to come in space available we have to go
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to a lottery and the only kids who don't
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have to be in a lottery are the younger
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brothers and sisters so we do not get to
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do any kind of selection we just are a
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public school of of choice and whoever
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wants to come we it we are
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we are on the hook with that sacred
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promise to deliver and help them learn
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everything they need to learn to be set
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up for success in school and life
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so you serve about 50 000 students right
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now across the 141 schools that are part
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of your network how many students apply
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uh to become part of cap and uh and how
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many are you able to admit it varies
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region or region where i am in in
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houston where we now have 22 schools and
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11 000 kids last year we had nearly 10
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000 kids and parents apply to come to
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kipp we had room for 2 000. so we had a
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very
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uh difficult lottery where we were
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saying sorry no room to 80 percent of
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all the kids and parents who want to
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come which
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that's one of the things
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the thing that i wake up in the middle
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of the night kicking and screaming
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having nightmares about are how we're
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going to keep our sacred promise to the
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kids we're serving and when i'm not
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having a nightmare about that the other
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thing that's making me wake up at night
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are how are we going to continue to grow
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to serve those other thousands of kids
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and parents who are looking for another
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option and we're not able to deliver yet
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so we're trying to grow as fast as we
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can but as slow as we must to maintain
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quality
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great so that's that's a great approach
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i think
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uh balancing growth and and not
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compromising on quality
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uh is is is really tough but yeah i'm
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glad you're straddling that
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there's people that are amazed about our
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growth and how big we've gotten and we
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are very proud of having
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this high performing network of 141
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schools and 50 000 kids
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but remember it we're about to celebrate
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our 20th anniversary in 2014. there was
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no growth for the first six years
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right and so and then when we started
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growing we the first thing we did we put
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in place a
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terrific school leadership training
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program with just a few
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fisher fellows our school leaders we
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were training
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and over the last two decades
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decade and a half we ramped it up to now
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we can be growing at 15 or 20 schools a
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year but this has not happened overnight
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nor did it even happen in a decade it's
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taken 20 years to grow this way so this
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is this is just slow and steady progress
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keeping a commitment staying on track
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and just executing day in and day out on
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a strategy
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so uh you you mentioned that
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for the first six years it was kind of
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not much growth and then at the sixth
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year there was a
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jump start was that the year when you
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partnered with uh uh the fishers uh yes
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at the gas or the founder co-founders of
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gap right so uh how did that
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come about so kip started the program
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and we had a chance to start it as a
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school both in houston then in new york
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city right dave levin's from new york
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city so he went we had both offers and
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being young and dumb we took both offers
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so dave started kipp academy in the
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bronx
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i stay in houston star kip academy there
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both with fifth grade we grew one year
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at a time our heads were down we were
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focused on our kids and delivering on
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sacred promises by 1999 they be our two
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schools became full-size fifth grade
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through eighth grade charter schools uh
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they were they were some of the highest
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performing schools in the respective
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communities of houston new york city
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people started visiting 60 minutes did a
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piece on our kids that opened up the
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floodgates we had people calling saying
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we saw that program on tv can we order
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15 kips for next year please and we were
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saying let's go check inventory um
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and believing in teach for america and
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the mission of teacher america of one
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day all children should get a great
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education
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we start thinking so how do we leverage
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the success of this little tiny school
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in southwest houston and this little
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tiny school in the south bronx new york
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to greater good so we started asking
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people for help and advice on how to
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scale ideas and and scale success and
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we were fortunate enough to to get in
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touch with don doris fisher the founders
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of the capital navy that were very
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focused and passionate about ed reform
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in the united states and it was a it was
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a terrific match and and we created a
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new foundation together called kip
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foundation i want to call it the north
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shore cuts foundation
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but don is it a nonprofit yeah
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non-profit dot don knew more about brand
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names than me he said call it kip and we
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said yes sir and so we started kipp
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foundation in april of 2000 with the
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goal of finding amazing teachers who
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have a fire in the belly to do this work
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beyond the four walls of their classroom
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we would train them for a year in this
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fellowship the fisher fellowship to have
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them to get the business and leadership
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skills to complement their terrific
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instructional skills and from there help
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them start the school of their dreams
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and that's how we've been growing as we
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have for the past 13 years
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you've mentioned a couple of times the
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importance of
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passionate teachers
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what do you
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what do you think makes a great teacher
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and how do you identify the teachers who
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are the best fit for kip i think there
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are four things that make a teacher a
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great teacher first and foremost it's a
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teacher that that has a lot of knowledge
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and passion in the subject at the
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subject matter they're teaching
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they don't need to rely on the teacher's
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edition to teach they can bring a wealth
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of outside resources in the classroom
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and make the learning come alive and if
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they love history the kids will love
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history right second the teacher knows
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how to take all that knowledge and
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passion from their brain and heart and
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transfer it into the brain and heart
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brain heart of a five ten or fifteen
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year old which for some people is a gift
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for most of us mortals that's a skill
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which has to be acquired over several
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years to learn how to do that really
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well
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third we're looking for teachers who
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have the basic attitude of doing
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whatever it takes that they're they're
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going to be the constant not the
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variable and even though kids especially
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in from underserved communities come to
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school with lots of variables and lots
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of potential excuses why learning is
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difficult the teachers will try to be
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the constant not the variable for as
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much as possible
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and lastly to to avoid
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uh
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being the example of the the sports team
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that has the loaded with talent but
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never wins the championship
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you also have to have to have teachers
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that buy into the basic core beliefs and
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values of that school right it's
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possible to be a terrific teacher as i
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named but still not fit with the rest of
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the faculty and we need people who are
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going to be good teammates not just in
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their classrooms but in the teachers
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lounge in the locker room as well right
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um now so so so you partnered with uh
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the the fishers to to launch the create
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the kept foundation
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you took kept national
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uh what challenges did you face in
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scaling things up and how did you
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overcome them and what lessons did you
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learn uh you know for us if great
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teaching and more of it are the
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ingredients of grade school the critical
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path is the great school leader
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because that great the principal the
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principal or the school leader is going
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to be the one who's going to recruit the
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great teachers develop the great
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teachers retain the great teachers
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motivate the great teachers and so for
00:14:03
us the most challenging part has been to
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recruit and select those amazing
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terrific leaders we've had in the last
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13 years we've had over 5000 people
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apply for the fisher fellowship we've
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given out about 190 fellowships about 30
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people didn't make it through the
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fellowship so we're batting about a two
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to three percent acceptance rate
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um so
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god bless the fisher family
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and and many other funders who who've
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been who've been making this possible
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that's not a quota that's how many
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people we we've been able to
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successfully find to do this work
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and uh it's getting relatively easier as
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we've created this large footprint of
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schools more and more of our fisher
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fellows are our teachers who are
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developing over time to the leadership
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pipeline
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but finding these talented terrific
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school leaders and then keeping them
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because you know
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running a school these are like dog
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years right so it it it really you know
00:15:01
i had a ponytail when i started um so we
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so it takes really just commitment and
00:15:07
skill and hard work and tenacity and so
00:15:09
finding these people and keeping them is
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the biggest challenge
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i have a question about your students
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and this is based on some discussions
00:15:17
i've had with people in other countries
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who are trying to do similar work as you
00:15:21
are doing here
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one of the things they've found is that
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although they may have a great program
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that that educates the kids in school
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when the children go back to the social
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and family environment
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sometimes it has the effect of undoing
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some of the good that has happened in
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school
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i wonder if you have ever faced that
00:15:44
challenge and and uh have you ever how
00:15:47
you've dealt with it we have families
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and
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we form great relationships with all of
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our families as part of this work we're
00:15:53
partners with with our families
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and there are examples where the parents
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or grandparents almost feel threatened
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by
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their their child or grandchild suddenly
00:16:07
learning more about the world than they
00:16:08
have but that i would say is is more the
00:16:10
exception to the rule
00:16:12
just about every home i've been in and
00:16:14
i've been over a thousand homes
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families are hungry
00:16:19
for their children to to live the
00:16:21
american dream
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and now that we're doing international
00:16:24
work as well and we're in we're helping
00:16:26
educators start these kip inspired
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schools in india and south africa and
00:16:30
israel and chile and mexico i realized
00:16:32
that the american dream is really a
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global dream it's hard it's hard to find
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parents who don't want their children to
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have a better life than them
00:16:41
and they and parents
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deliberately realize or simply
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instinctively realize that education is
00:16:49
the ticket for their kids to have a
00:16:51
better life right i'm very fascinated by
00:16:54
your overseas expansion can you tell me
00:16:55
a little more uh about what were the
00:16:58
challenges involved there sure
00:17:00
uh
00:17:00
for a bunch of years we've always had
00:17:03
international educators knock on our
00:17:05
door and ask for help
00:17:06
and that traffic has increased in the
00:17:08
last four or five years it's
00:17:10
i think it's due to the the growth of of
00:17:12
as teach for america has become teach
00:17:14
for all and teach roles and i was in two
00:17:16
dozen countries more and more of the
00:17:17
alumni they finish their two years uh
00:17:20
you know
00:17:21
half of them want to go to grad school
00:17:23
or goldman or mckinsey the other half
00:17:25
want to stay in the classroom and stay
00:17:26
in their schools and make a difference
00:17:28
and they wind up knocking on our door
00:17:30
and for a few years we when they first
00:17:33
came and asked us for help and they
00:17:34
would come and see what we were doing
00:17:35
and say can you come to our country our
00:17:37
answer was always sorry we haven't even
00:17:39
fixed the state of arkansas yet we have
00:17:41
a lot of work to do here um i like to
00:17:44
give more hope so i told people look we
00:17:46
can help you the way we help ourselves
00:17:48
we focus on leadership training and if
00:17:50
you have the skills or passion or you
00:17:51
know someone in your country's got the
00:17:53
skills and passion and there's resources
00:17:54
to get them to united states come over
00:17:56
here i'll sneak them in the side door of
00:17:58
the fisher fellowship we'll train them
00:18:00
in leadership with our fisher fellows
00:18:01
have them stay in the u.s for a few
00:18:03
months they can beg bro and steal all
00:18:05
the great ideas
00:18:06
because we we don't believe in
00:18:08
intellectual property we give it away
00:18:10
you know one one day all children um and
00:18:13
then they'll go back to their country
00:18:15
start a great school it won't be a kipp
00:18:17
school but it'll be a kipp inspired
00:18:18
school and they'll be part of our
00:18:19
network and they'll have this cohort
00:18:21
with the kipp school leaders and we'll
00:18:22
learn and grow together um we didn't
00:18:24
market it we just put the bait in the
00:18:25
water and the israelis for the first
00:18:28
country to take me up on it then then
00:18:30
came the indians um then came the
00:18:32
mexicans uh then the south africans and
00:18:34
most lately the chileans um and where
00:18:36
you know we we spun off a new nonprofit
00:18:39
called the one world network of schools
00:18:41
because there's such a growing line at
00:18:43
the door so when people knock on kip's
00:18:44
door we refer them to one world and the
00:18:47
one world network of schools will help
00:18:49
both do the do the training
00:18:51
support on the back end help people
00:18:52
start these schools and most importantly
00:18:55
you know if we're this is going to grow
00:18:57
when people first knock on our door they
00:18:59
think they want to replicate kip what
00:19:00
they really want to replicate is the
00:19:02
kipp school leadership program i mean
00:19:04
you know my indian friends don't talk
00:19:06
about wanting to start
00:19:08
with dozens or hundreds of schools they
00:19:10
need thousands right there's a little
00:19:11
bit of a scale issue in india right and
00:19:13
so what they they don't have enough
00:19:15
philanthropy and we don't have enough
00:19:17
seats to train everyone in the united
00:19:18
states so ultimately we have to
00:19:19
replicate is the kipp school leadership
00:19:21
program so there's an in-country place
00:19:24
for teachers to get trained to start
00:19:25
these breakthrough new transformative
00:19:27
schools in country that's how you can
00:19:29
scale this right
00:19:31
it's fascinating how do you measure
00:19:33
kip's success
00:19:36
the ultimate outcome is did we deliver
00:19:38
on our sacred promises to our children
00:19:39
so have they did they get to and through
00:19:42
college and now have the freedom to do
00:19:45
this world what they want to do and so
00:19:47
tracking from eighth grade which we do
00:19:49
to be more transparent i could tell you
00:19:51
100 of my kids are going to college if i
00:19:53
look at my class of 2013
00:19:55
but that's not those are not the same
00:19:57
kids we started with so if i look at my
00:19:59
eighth graders from a bunch of years ago
00:20:00
and wherever they went to high school
00:20:03
we tracked them all
00:20:06
85 to 90 percent are going to college
00:20:09
and so far depending on the region 45 to
00:20:11
48 percent have graduated from college
00:20:14
and
00:20:15
we think about that in two ways you know
00:20:17
compared to eight percent of low-income
00:20:18
kids who graduate from college where
00:20:20
five to six times the national average
00:20:22
we celebrate that compared to 31 of all
00:20:24
adults in the united states have a
00:20:25
college degree we're a lot higher than
00:20:27
that we celebrate that
00:20:28
compared to 82 percent of top quartile
00:20:31
income kid to graduate from college
00:20:33
we're still well below that number so we
00:20:35
still have an achievement gap and we are
00:20:36
hungry to get better every day
00:20:38
so what what are the main obstacles to
00:20:40
closing that achievement gap and how are
00:20:42
you tackling them
00:20:43
several things first off is just
00:20:45
continued
00:20:47
rigor in pre-k through 12th grade and
00:20:49
getting the kids for academic success to
00:20:51
be ready for for college work and not
00:20:54
need any remediation
00:20:56
uh those numbers i gave you were all
00:20:58
kids that we started with in fifth grade
00:21:00
in a lot of cases didn't even have a
00:21:02
high school and ended after eighth grade
00:21:03
we've since started primary schools
00:21:05
those oldest kids are now in eighth
00:21:07
grade so starting in 2018 we should see
00:21:09
the benefits of starting kids even
00:21:10
younger but that that's that's part of
00:21:12
it so it's the academic rigor
00:21:14
secondly it's there's certainly
00:21:16
financial issues both both direct and
00:21:18
indirect direct is the cost of higher
00:21:20
education is going through the roof it's
00:21:21
difficult to afford
00:21:23
indirect how do you deal with that
00:21:25
help our kids just apply to lots and
00:21:27
lots of scholarships and maximize
00:21:29
financial aid as much as possible and
00:21:31
also deal with the families because the
00:21:33
indirect challenges with with finances
00:21:36
our parents
00:21:37
are sometimes pushing their kids to stop
00:21:40
school and come back home and take an 8
00:21:42
hour job to help the family pay rent
00:21:45
or that kid to make tuition payments is
00:21:48
working 40 hours a week in the mall
00:21:51
which means that's 40 hours a week
00:21:52
they're not studying the library so
00:21:53
their grades suffer so so their
00:21:55
financial aid package goes down as a
00:21:57
vicious circle that's the financial
00:21:58
bucket there is there's horrible college
00:22:00
counseling in this country
00:22:02
if it exists at all in some schools
00:22:04
where kids who should be staying close
00:22:05
to home go far away kids who should go
00:22:07
to a small school go to a big school
00:22:09
kids that get into two schools
00:22:12
they're not given the data this school
00:22:14
this they're both equally hard to get
00:22:16
into schools same financial aid package
00:22:18
this school's got a 62 completion rate
00:22:21
this school's got a 28 completion rate
00:22:24
why won't you choose this school where
00:22:25
you double your chances of finishing
00:22:26
just by going with the flow right things
00:22:28
like that
00:22:29
fourth are just all the challenges of
00:22:31
being a first-generation low-income kid
00:22:33
you can't call home and you can't you
00:22:35
have a lifeline to get advice on how to
00:22:37
climb the mountain to and through
00:22:38
college and lastly are the non-cognitive
00:22:41
skills which are being pioneered and
00:22:43
studied here at the university of
00:22:44
pennsylvania by martin seligman and
00:22:46
angela duckworth about you know
00:22:49
people are not going to graduate from
00:22:50
college only because they can read write
00:22:52
and think critically they also need grit
00:22:54
they need self-control they need
00:22:56
optimism right they they need they need
00:22:59
zest they need when no one's born with
00:23:01
those things they developed them over
00:23:02
the years and so those are all the big
00:23:04
buckets we have to work on both on the
00:23:06
k-12 side and on higher ed side because
00:23:08
higher ed has a responsibility as well
00:23:10
and it's fantastic to see the university
00:23:12
of pennsylvania be a leader
00:23:13
on the higher ed sided community about
00:23:15
making sure that we close the
00:23:17
achievement gap and our first generation
00:23:18
low-income kids in this country graduate
00:23:21
at the exact same rate as all of our
00:23:23
other kids
00:23:25
well
00:23:27
thank you for what you said about upenn
00:23:29
but especially when it comes to funding
00:23:31
their college education
00:23:34
does your curriculum emphasize things
00:23:36
like
00:23:37
um
00:23:38
awareness of personal uh finance or
00:23:41
financial literacy or entrepreneurship
00:23:43
or leadership to some degree or do you
00:23:45
think that might help again be because
00:23:47
we're focused on getting our kids to go
00:23:48
to and through college and not just pass
00:23:50
the state test our kipp through college
00:23:52
team starts in middle school with
00:23:54
teaching kids about what it's going to
00:23:56
take to be
00:23:57
prepared and set for success in college
00:23:59
and life
00:24:00
and so certainly
00:24:02
leadership and personal finance and
00:24:04
entrepreneurship are all part of that we
00:24:05
need to develop in our kids you know
00:24:07
with my favorite shirt in the kip team
00:24:10
and family is kipp new york city has a
00:24:11
shirt that shows the pie chart of the
00:24:13
ingredients of kit and it says 49
00:24:16
academics 51 character
00:24:18
right and so uh and those numbers we're
00:24:20
choosing very deliberately there's a lot
00:24:22
beyond traditional tested subjects so we
00:24:25
need to give our kids to set them up for
00:24:26
success
00:24:27
and i have one last question for you
00:24:30
where would you like kip to be on its
00:24:32
25th birthday and what can we do to help
00:24:35
you get there
00:24:37
uh
00:24:38
by our 20 i would love to be able to say
00:24:40
that we we are we are knocking on the
00:24:41
door closing the achievement gap and
00:24:43
we're not just trying to get up to 50 of
00:24:45
our kids going to and through college
00:24:47
but we've we've blown past 60 percent
00:24:50
we're getting close to 70 percent and we
00:24:52
are proving the possible and by us doing
00:24:54
so we've inspired our friends to do as
00:24:56
well and the and the the excuses are
00:24:59
ending
00:25:00
because the daily excuses end our days
00:25:02
of solutions are going to start and as a
00:25:04
result i would love to see that our 8
00:25:06
000 kid wait list in houston shrink with
00:25:09
without us without maintaining quality
00:25:12
and has shrunk because the other schools
00:25:14
have gotten better so the kids and
00:25:15
parents stop want to come that's what
00:25:17
i'm hoping to get to by 25th would be
00:25:19
fantastic
00:25:21
and anything we can do to help you get
00:25:22
today
00:25:23
yeah definitely you can a few things
00:25:25
first off
00:25:27
penn has been a leader on on the most
00:25:29
competitive
00:25:30
higher ed side and the ivy league side
00:25:32
of helping whether it's kipp kids and
00:25:35
other kids from high performing schools
00:25:37
local neighborhoods come here and
00:25:38
succeed here that proves it possible
00:25:40
right then and there and having more and
00:25:42
more kids come here and be successful
00:25:44
helps get more believers to believe in
00:25:46
the potential of all of our children and
00:25:48
that's huge
00:25:49
secondly uh
00:25:51
the things that the university can can
00:25:52
be doing to partner with k-12 and give
00:25:55
feedback down to us of where the holes
00:25:58
what still are our kids not doing well
00:26:00
on day one that we could fix in 12th
00:26:03
grade 10th grade 8th grade 4th grade
00:26:05
pre-k to get themselves more success
00:26:08
and lastly
00:26:09
it's about great teaching and more of it
00:26:11
so having the the terrific faculty here
00:26:13
at penn
00:26:14
continues to help teachers sharpen the
00:26:17
saw and develop the the teaching skills
00:26:20
and the content skills they need to be
00:26:22
great teachers is also a fantastic
00:26:24
resource the university
00:26:26
has been doing and i hope does more of
00:26:28
in the future
00:26:30
well mike good luck to you and thank you
00:26:32
very much for speaking with knowledge at
00:26:34
wharton thank you for having me here go
00:26:35
quakers
00:26:59
you
