00:00:00
let me just say something about Allen W
00:00:02
Bell he is like a famous writer from
00:00:05
Saturday Night Live and he was a huge
00:00:08
part of the First cast and the First
00:00:11
cast is always going to be the First
00:00:12
cast that'll always be the greatest
00:00:14
right and what happened and he really
00:00:17
breaks it down another thing I like to
00:00:19
say stay in your lane break it down he
00:00:21
breaks down that when they got on the
00:00:23
show it was kind of innocent no one knew
00:00:25
they weren't rock stars they that's why
00:00:26
they call them not ready for Prime Time
00:00:28
Players and then again given point I
00:00:31
think it was John baloy did Animal House
00:00:33
and became a movie star and so the
00:00:36
entire culture of the show changes
00:00:38
because of this which is a fascinating
00:00:40
thing he goes in detail about that you
00:00:42
picture he come back to the set and
00:00:43
there in those little tiny he's on SNL
00:00:45
now he's like so much bigger than
00:00:47
everyone MH and now he's back to doing
00:00:50
sketches and there had to be attitudes
00:00:51
and this and you know yeah some people
00:00:53
were on drugs some people weren't but I
00:00:55
think that once that hit he said it
00:00:57
changed the dynamic yeah and it's also
00:00:59
uh Allan worked very closely with Gilda
00:01:02
rner and that's fun to hear because
00:01:03
she's somewhat America sweetheart she's
00:01:06
great maybe the most likable I don't
00:01:08
know she's just brilliant and he he
00:01:11
really talks fondly about her in great
00:01:13
detail he also he did a movie that he
00:01:15
wrote which was such a hyped movie with
00:01:17
a hyped cast called North and it [ __ ]
00:01:20
bombed and uh was John Lovitz in it it's
00:01:23
so brutal because I'm kidding you could
00:01:26
the interesting thing about showz out
00:01:28
here is that no one knows Jack [ __ ] you
00:01:30
can't there's almost no for sure hits
00:01:33
and so smartest people directors writers
00:01:35
cast and you just can't say this movie
00:01:38
would be great and people just say pass
00:01:40
and it's unbelievable I can't believe
00:01:41
they don't have cracked the code yet I
00:01:43
actually started a movie right after
00:01:44
that 1995 nobody knows jack [ __ ] and
00:01:48
that even bombed that movie didn't do
00:01:50
well nobody knows jack [ __ ] it even
00:01:51
bombed no can you play Jack [ __ ] Show
00:01:54
Business yeah I was Jack [ __ ] I look
00:01:57
kind of like Joe Dirt I was kind of like
00:01:59
hey jack [ __ ] man and jack [ __ ] are you
00:02:04
Clueless yeah I don't know even jack
00:02:06
[ __ ] I don't know myself that was the
00:02:08
cold open of the movie it was on a
00:02:10
mountain Retreat there were Cowboys
00:02:12
anyway doesn't matter it's on live
00:02:14
streaming I think it's on Pluto maybe
00:02:16
Pluto is that a planet or a channel it
00:02:19
doesn't even know it's a network that's
00:02:21
how obscure it doesn't even qualify to
00:02:22
be stream it's like the real Pluto which
00:02:24
is called a dwarf planet because it's so
00:02:26
tiny Pluto doesn't count as even a
00:02:29
streaming cuz there only 3,200 people
00:02:31
watch it 3,200 that's the latest
00:02:33
globally all right most of them in
00:02:36
Czechoslovakia I digress more on that
00:02:38
later um here's Alan
00:02:40
[Music]
00:02:46
Zell it's like the moon landing usually
00:02:49
but no I've been blessed Dana I've been
00:02:51
really blessed fresh yeah not too much
00:02:54
sun light on the booze healthy diet oh
00:02:57
yeah and you know I get my basic
00:03:00
um six hours of sleep a week so it's
00:03:04
working out nicely so you're not
00:03:06
sleeping as well that's a yeah that's
00:03:10
that's pretty common don't you
00:03:12
anybody uh well I take a little bit of a
00:03:16
sleep
00:03:18
aid oh I see in the form of a pill yeah
00:03:22
teeny bits bits of it it's David Spain
00:03:25
Everybody by the way Al Franken asked me
00:03:28
to ask you a question question okay he
00:03:31
asked why Bell a question he said are
00:03:33
you are you
00:03:36
Jewish well that's all that's that's
00:03:38
from Al Franken that's not a yes or no
00:03:42
answer I know my answer
00:03:45
I ask him ask him if he's
00:03:49
Jewish have what you think this is
00:03:52
Nordic no no no no
00:03:55
no Nordic oh yeah look on your Square
00:03:59
it's ISS David
00:04:00
sper yeah I don't know what happened
00:04:03
okay but you can figure it out his
00:04:05
nickname is spudley that's my code name
00:04:08
nickname is spudley your nickname is
00:04:11
swies okay I don't really I don't have a
00:04:15
nickname and all right by the end of
00:04:17
this Dana you were gonna have a nickname
00:04:19
oh okay my wife would like that so
00:04:23
you've been married a long time right or
00:04:24
no oh God for um oh God oh God help us
00:04:30
God help us all it's it's 40 42 years uh
00:04:35
for those of you who bet the under I'm
00:04:37
sorry funny hey man I'm looking right at
00:04:41
40 I think really married in 83
00:04:46
2023 pretty much yeah yeah you're on the
00:04:48
cusa 40 yeah yeah how's it how's it
00:04:52
working
00:04:53
out uh I've been married 40 years to six
00:04:57
different women you know I mean it's
00:04:59
well yeah well you know it's cumulative
00:05:01
how this stuff works you know you don't
00:05:03
get any points for just one you know
00:05:06
what I mean it's just how long you've
00:05:08
been but like I don't write jokes but
00:05:11
this joke always kills I have two jokes
00:05:13
about my wife and that's it because I
00:05:15
can't write a joke and you're brilliant
00:05:16
at it yeah I met my wife when she was 19
00:05:20
I raised her as one of my own gets a
00:05:22
nice little laugh right I've been
00:05:24
married 38 years plause to seven
00:05:28
different women
00:05:30
those are but they they kill so much it
00:05:33
makes me mad because I I don't even like
00:05:35
them I'm just makes here's mine Dan I
00:05:38
say my longest relationship is three
00:05:40
table dances in a row that was my old
00:05:43
one Jesus but I'm not like that anymore
00:05:45
Danny you know that so Allan yeah um you
00:05:49
have so much I've been reading your book
00:05:52
no no this is we should have allowed a
00:05:55
lot more time this one hour thing you
00:05:57
know I don't know how that's going going
00:05:59
to
00:06:00
work the career is a 7-hour career and
00:06:03
we're trying to cram it into 1 hour we
00:06:04
could get several people off I mean it
00:06:07
was it was Grim 205 finally Jim down he
00:06:10
said
00:06:11
okay no we love Jim he came on and said
00:06:15
nice things about you don't you love
00:06:16
when people say that to you hey I ran
00:06:18
into someone Alan they said nice things
00:06:20
about you yeah like like it's an unusual
00:06:23
thing that um wow somebody actually
00:06:26
doesn't think you're an
00:06:28
[ __ ] you uh you uh seem very popular
00:06:32
so far for what I've read and heard and
00:06:34
seen you seem very popular are you are
00:06:37
are you a a bad guy pretending to be a
00:06:40
nice guy or a nice guy good one yeah
00:06:43
well okay people say I'm nice but they
00:06:45
go I'm kind of a dick inside and maybe
00:06:47
Dennis Miller is sort of opposite or
00:06:49
whatever
00:06:50
I he's really nice a dick with a nice
00:06:53
guy inside well he plays that character
00:06:55
but he's incredibly sentimental and
00:06:56
loyal to his friends so what about you
00:06:59
I'm also a part-time therapist I'm full
00:07:02
disclosure I I I I think that I'm
00:07:04
generally nice I mean I've got uh three
00:07:07
kids five grandchildren so they
00:07:09
automatically make you nice as far as
00:07:12
doing what we do is concerned um you
00:07:16
know something I remember all the people
00:07:17
who were nice to me when I started and I
00:07:20
also remember all the dicks and I'm
00:07:22
going well I don't want to be remembered
00:07:24
that way you know right and and also you
00:07:27
know um all the collaboration that I've
00:07:30
done you know whether it would be
00:07:32
chandling or Gilda or Billy Crystal or I
00:07:36
learned to take my ego and put it over
00:07:39
here and make it just work for the work
00:07:42
and so that avoids CL if I believe in
00:07:45
something that I'm writing and the other
00:07:47
person doesn't uh then we have a
00:07:50
different kind of talk but it's about
00:07:52
the work you know you know you said your
00:07:55
your kids like you let's look at a
00:07:58
clip oh oh they say they don't like we
00:08:00
have a clip I'm kidding I find just try
00:08:03
to get in there see if this relates to
00:08:05
you guys Dave's got a million
00:08:08
of I I was sitting on that for about 45
00:08:11
seconds guys just do you ever even as a
00:08:14
non-confrontational confrontational nice
00:08:16
guy there's ways to get what you want so
00:08:18
if you hear someone's idea you don't
00:08:20
really agree with even if they're one of
00:08:21
the greats do you rope a doe a little
00:08:23
bit like you don't push back at that
00:08:25
moment and you go oh that could be good
00:08:27
and then you fight for it later there's
00:08:29
a dance and one of them I learned from
00:08:32
chandling you know you can pitch a joke
00:08:34
to him about a cow all right and then
00:08:39
Gary would go well off of what you're
00:08:43
saying I think that Amish people and you
00:08:46
go wait a second how did the cow
00:08:49
get he includes you as if he would never
00:08:52
have had that thought had he not heard
00:08:54
about the cow oh so he's very
00:08:58
proprietary he makes sure that he's was
00:09:00
in there he was in there but it was
00:09:03
inclusive and um nobody would be telling
00:09:06
stories like this and you know after he
00:09:08
passed God the the writer Dynamic Dana
00:09:11
of when I started SNL Allan I was a
00:09:14
comedian Dana came on as a full cast
00:09:17
member but obviously he's a funny uh
00:09:19
writer and thinker but he wasn't paid
00:09:21
you know as a writer he could write like
00:09:23
as you know but for the people at home
00:09:25
like I was a writer performer so I was
00:09:27
sort of when you're a featur player the
00:09:30
word was you write for everyone else you
00:09:32
don't really need to be on you know like
00:09:33
start writing and that's a hard thing a
00:09:35
to write for other people I think that's
00:09:37
where you're good and it's hard to not
00:09:40
want to be on and I think you've had a
00:09:42
career where you were okay just being a
00:09:45
good writer that's that's a that's a
00:09:46
hard thing to pitch all that I I've been
00:09:49
lucky David in that you know Letterman
00:09:51
would put me on as a guest and uh I go
00:09:55
on talk shows I have speaking engagement
00:09:57
so that part part of me that has that
00:10:01
need or that desire to have an audience
00:10:04
respond to me is pretty much satisfied
00:10:08
that being said I just love the craft of
00:10:11
writing too much to me it's I wake up
00:10:13
5:30 every morning I move my words
00:10:15
around and try to make sense of it and
00:10:17
so um I have the best of both worlds
00:10:20
that way yeah you know I I I mean Dan I
00:10:23
was just going to say that when when
00:10:25
there's so much pride even when I was
00:10:27
there when I'd get a sketch on that I
00:10:28
started to feel so much pride in the
00:10:30
word writer that when they were saying
00:10:33
at at other shows on comedies you could
00:10:34
be a producer or something I go and they
00:10:36
stopped kind of using the word writer I
00:10:38
go no no writer is like the coolest
00:10:40
thing to be proud of like you were
00:10:41
saying like if you're a good writer you
00:10:43
feel so much you get so much out of it
00:10:46
to be called a writer well you're
00:10:49
absolutely right and there was an older
00:10:51
school I don't know if it ex I don't
00:10:53
think it exists now but there was an
00:10:55
older School uh where they uh was
00:10:59
regarded by Executives and even uh
00:11:03
producers where you started off as a
00:11:06
writer and you graduated to a producer
00:11:09
or something like that whereas um you go
00:11:12
no no I write that's that that's what I
00:11:14
do you know just pay me more to write
00:11:16
don't call me something else yeah yeah
00:11:18
what the what's that well I would I
00:11:20
would just interject this um after
00:11:23
reading a lot of stuff about you in the
00:11:24
last couple days like it's really Val
00:11:26
valuable for a performer on Saturday
00:11:29
Night Live to find a writer who gets
00:11:32
them and will incorporate their rhythms
00:11:34
like you would I had that with Smigel
00:11:36
and you had it with Gilda I guess where
00:11:38
you would listen to her and then you
00:11:40
would add stuff on so the it came
00:11:42
together the writing and the Performing
00:11:45
were kind of created simultaneously as
00:11:47
opposed to handing Guild or something is
00:11:49
that kind of how it worked or absolutely
00:11:52
you know before I got to SNL I was
00:11:54
writing joke jokes for standup comedians
00:11:57
and the cat skills and then Rodney
00:11:59
Dangerfield Morty gunty was his name
00:12:01
Morty gunty was the first guy I remember
00:12:03
that guy in TV yeah in the 60s when we
00:12:06
were growing up there was Morty gunty uh
00:12:08
he had a show called the funny company
00:12:11
and for you trivia Buffs out there uh
00:12:14
the Dick Van Dy show had two pilots and
00:12:17
the first one that got rejected uh call
00:12:21
Rina played what eventually was Dick Van
00:12:23
dijk's role Morty gunty originally
00:12:25
played what became Mory Amsterdam's role
00:12:29
in that show but when I um when I
00:12:33
learned how to write jokes uh I I that's
00:12:37
why Lauren hired me and when I got to
00:12:40
SNL I had never seen I never I don't
00:12:43
think I even heard of Second City at
00:12:45
that point certainly not the Groundlings
00:12:47
or the proposition where Jane curtain
00:12:50
came from and when I saw them assuming
00:12:53
characters or you get somebody like Dan
00:12:55
akroy who all of a sudden creates this
00:12:57
whole world in front of you I was I was
00:13:01
running for guys with Tuxedos and bad
00:13:02
teeth you know and for the cing like
00:13:07
joke jokes for people and then now it's
00:13:09
sketches which is very different
00:13:11
absolutely the only time you know as you
00:13:13
know that that joke jokes were maybe
00:13:16
appropriate was weekend updates yeah
00:13:19
okay uh but when I was writing for those
00:13:21
guys uh I I you know Rodney Dangerfield
00:13:26
um you know he had that thing don't get
00:13:29
no respect even as an infant my mother
00:13:32
wouldn't breastfeed me she said she
00:13:33
liked me as a friend okay that was so so
00:13:37
I I captured his rhythms and whatever
00:13:40
but and and the joke that got me the job
00:13:42
at SNL and Lauren is the first to uh to
00:13:45
admit it uh or to verify it I should say
00:13:49
is I had written a joke saying that the
00:13:51
post office was about to issue a stamp
00:13:53
commemorating prostitution the United
00:13:55
States 10 cent stamp you want to lick it
00:13:58
if it's a quarter okay so so you know I
00:14:02
learned how to write jokes but when I
00:14:04
got to S SNL aside from Weekend Update
00:14:08
where I collaborated with herb Sergeant
00:14:10
was he there when you guys were there
00:14:12
yes Herb was there the entire time
00:14:14
running update when I was God you know
00:14:16
he was the old guy in that big office
00:14:19
with map on the wall white hair was
00:14:22
shocking the glasses that he wore up
00:14:24
here for some reason when his eyes were
00:14:25
down here and uh so the jokes I with him
00:14:30
but character writing like for Gilda or
00:14:33
the samurai for John balushi was
00:14:35
something I had a feel my way around so
00:14:38
and with Gilda it was we found each
00:14:42
other as people she um she was a little
00:14:44
spooked out by uh the big city coming to
00:14:47
New York and living here this is where
00:14:49
I'm from and we found each other and
00:14:52
you're absolutely right not only did we
00:14:54
have this Synergy where we made each
00:14:56
other laugh but it was like she wanted
00:14:59
somebody to write for her and I wanted
00:15:02
somebody to speak through okay so it
00:15:05
became a very convenient kind of uh
00:15:08
marriage that way you when you you
00:15:12
started I I don't know this Dana but I
00:15:14
think Alan you started originally with
00:15:16
the original so you met Gilda when
00:15:18
everyone did everyone was like sort of
00:15:19
merging together you were there day one
00:15:21
of I was there day one yeah yeah I mean
00:15:25
we the first um meeting we had in LA 's
00:15:29
office uh July 7th 1975 I just remember
00:15:34
that wow okay and I I uh walk into
00:15:37
Lauren's office for our first meeting
00:15:40
nobody's there except for Michael oonu
00:15:44
who was I don't know if you met him but
00:15:46
he founded the National Lampoon he was
00:15:48
the
00:15:49
darkest humor guy ever and he was by
00:15:53
himself in Lauren's office and what how
00:15:57
did I find him I found him he took big
00:16:01
bird a stuffed yellow Big Bird and he
00:16:05
was wrapping the venetian blind cord
00:16:08
around Big Bird's neck and then he
00:16:11
pulled it so big bird was hanging and he
00:16:15
did that then he looked at me he goes do
00:16:17
you like The Muppets that's how he felt
00:16:19
about the Muppets being on the show
00:16:21
originally and I was and I like the
00:16:23
Muppets but I was too scared to admit it
00:16:25
I go yeah I hate those [ __ ]
00:16:27
things I would have said the same thing
00:16:30
yeah yeah so he he murdered a man in
00:16:33
Vegas right was that the rumor no I'm
00:16:35
kidding made that up it's always like
00:16:37
killed a man and Reno is always that
00:16:39
other go-to thing um I was kind of
00:16:42
interested in that joke for just a
00:16:44
second the posty stamp joke because I
00:16:46
realized that the the language the
00:16:48
syllables of a a writer of jokes like it
00:16:51
had to be what was the the punch line
00:16:52
the way you teased it out if you want to
00:16:54
lick it it's a quarter not 25 not 25
00:16:59
cents quarters better Rhythm yeah but in
00:17:01
in in I have this book that I that
00:17:03
recently came out called laugh lines my
00:17:05
life helping funny people be funnier
00:17:08
that's I devote a bunch of pages to how
00:17:11
I wrote that joke uh it was it was 19775
00:17:15
when I got the job on SNL but the next
00:17:17
year was going to be the bicentennial so
00:17:20
they were gonna have commemorative
00:17:21
stamps about things in history and say
00:17:25
okay what's a funny thing in that you
00:17:27
can have a stamp about
00:17:29
oh maybe prostitution I can't even begin
00:17:31
to tell you how many different
00:17:34
punchlines I had you know if you lick it
00:17:37
it goes
00:17:39
ah I had one where you took the stamp
00:17:41
out to dinner first it it was ridiculous
00:17:45
and um then it was if you want to lick
00:17:47
it it's a lot more and then it ended up
00:17:50
on quarter but you're right not 25 cents
00:17:52
but that one took a long time to
00:17:54
quarter's got a K in it I mean not not
00:17:57
really when you write it out sometimes
00:18:00
yeah it's got that abely funny it's
00:18:03
going to be a quarter yeah anyway so
00:18:06
that's process so Gilda uh as a person I
00:18:09
mean I was someone in college when you
00:18:12
guys all came on and had never done
00:18:13
standup when you started so you were
00:18:16
Superstars the whole show was ridiculous
00:18:19
it was uh just mustsee television for
00:18:22
everyone in the dorm you know and Gilder
00:18:25
rner always bounced off the screen I
00:18:26
know it's been talked about so much
00:18:28
her level of likability and
00:18:32
vulnerability I don't know if I've ever
00:18:34
seen a more likable
00:18:36
person Spade also was my next person
00:18:40
super and I would say it's a dead heat
00:18:43
it's a dead he real toss up yeah and her
00:18:47
name being Gilda was cute too everything
00:18:49
about it was cute she um yes great she
00:18:52
had that intangible quality that you
00:18:55
felt you know you knew her even if you
00:18:57
never met her
00:18:59
and and um
00:19:01
Lauren it may have been the first year
00:19:03
of the show what he would do is he would
00:19:06
put Gilda on stage just sitting there
00:19:09
and she would talk about what she ate
00:19:11
that week and then she would do the same
00:19:13
thing with he would do the same thing
00:19:15
with Belushi where he let the people
00:19:17
know who they were for two minutes as
00:19:20
people so when she would do rosan
00:19:22
Rosanna Dana you felt you knew that
00:19:25
person who was now wearing a funny wig
00:19:28
and
00:19:29
a different person cuz sometimes as a
00:19:30
kid I'm too stupid and you don't even
00:19:32
know really their characters the first
00:19:35
time you see someone you go that's who
00:19:36
she is yes you know what I mean and
00:19:39
that's kind of smart to differentiate it
00:19:40
and say hey audience you don't know her
00:19:42
yet but here's who she is normally
00:19:44
that's absolutely right so you it's like
00:19:47
you know if a friend of yours is doing
00:19:49
something funny it feels doubly good
00:19:52
because you know who that person is you
00:19:54
know so that's what's happening in the
00:19:55
podcast world people do a podcast people
00:19:58
get to know them and then they tour the
00:20:00
podcast and the same laugh they're doing
00:20:03
gets double the laugh because the
00:20:04
audience is it's their friend and they
00:20:06
know them it's very interesting new art
00:20:08
absolutely yeah no there's a familiarity
00:20:11
as opposed to uh a reintroduction or uh
00:20:15
having to Define yourself it's a head
00:20:17
start it's really e it's really good if
00:20:20
if Sinatra was around today he'd come
00:20:22
out he'd take off his hairpiece he would
00:20:25
go hey ladies authentic yeah the summer
00:20:28
want I don't do Sinatra but I will do
00:20:30
Sinatra before this podcast is over I
00:20:33
vow yeah Allan was was uh uh was Gilda
00:20:36
she seems a little fragile to me too was
00:20:39
she or was she very tough oh well that's
00:20:42
a great question there was a fragility
00:20:44
there look she had vices um she's it was
00:20:48
publicly known that she was a bulimic
00:20:50
and uh she had trouble with guys never
00:20:53
probably got over the fact that her dad
00:20:55
died when she was 15 when she was 15
00:20:58
yeah and she was this fat kid and all of
00:21:00
that stuff so but the um I think that
00:21:05
her greatest I don't know if it was
00:21:08
talent but what she did was she didn't
00:21:11
hide that vulnerability okay she didn't
00:21:14
try to be something she wasn't and once
00:21:17
again that made her somewhat embraceable
00:21:20
you know but she was strong enough to uh
00:21:24
to get through it you know when we did
00:21:26
the show and I'm sure was the same for
00:21:27
you guys it It ultimately became a
00:21:30
Battleground you know uh within the
00:21:32
offices oh it's tough yeah
00:21:35
yeah it's you got to be strong and no
00:21:37
one I don't think anyone's ready for it
00:21:38
you think we're all in this team we're
00:21:40
all going to have this great fun time
00:21:41
and then there are great great fun highs
00:21:44
and then there's some tough times when
00:21:46
you're in nothing or you're walking
00:21:47
through the halls and people are
00:21:47
ignoring you because you had a bad readr
00:21:50
or something you're just like oh this is
00:21:51
so weird we there it's a weird thing oh
00:21:54
go ahead Dan I was just curious about
00:21:56
what you what you just said and the
00:21:57
alliance that get made and it is a Game
00:21:59
of Thrones or something there's a whole
00:22:01
sube you put all these Comedians and
00:22:03
clowns and writers in a room and you say
00:22:07
if this guy gets on I'm a clown Phil
00:22:09
Harman used to go I'm a clown I'm a
00:22:10
clown yeah it's hilarious this guy my
00:22:13
friend sketch gets on then mine won't
00:22:14
get on and all that psychology that went
00:22:17
on at least when I was there but we were
00:22:19
all very friendly with each other but it
00:22:21
was was weird that put it stomach
00:22:23
turning yeah oh you know something um I
00:22:27
can this is my own
00:22:30
personal uh sort of observation when
00:22:32
that started okay I could be wrong and
00:22:35
other people could dispute it but look
00:22:39
when we first started the Only Rule that
00:22:41
we had Lauren said let's just make each
00:22:43
other laugh and if we do we'll put it on
00:22:45
television good idea okay so we had this
00:22:48
show hey we're gonna do a show and it
00:22:51
was sort of egalitarian and it was uh
00:22:55
the show was the thing but when when
00:22:58
Belushi came back after doing Animal
00:23:00
House it's my theory that the that the
00:23:04
culture changed because now John was on
00:23:07
the cover of I think it was Newsweek by
00:23:10
himself with the toga you know and the
00:23:13
law yeah and and none of the other casts
00:23:16
were on either side of him so now it was
00:23:19
almost subliminal but wait a second this
00:23:22
show can get us that okay and it was not
00:23:27
the
00:23:28
but I do believe that that that was a
00:23:31
turning point it was a line of
00:23:32
demarcation there where for us the show
00:23:35
was the end now it became an end a means
00:23:37
to an end right yeah interesting because
00:23:41
Chevy left early right and then and then
00:23:43
Chevy blew up and Belushi was [ __ ]
00:23:46
huge a like one at a time it started
00:23:48
blowing up and I'm sure everyone's like
00:23:51
what's when it's my time in the sun like
00:23:52
when do I get to that level I'm already
00:23:54
at a huge level but it's not enough and
00:23:57
then what happened you're absolutely
00:23:58
right Dave because what um after Chevy
00:24:01
left Bill Murray yeah reped yeah yeah
00:24:05
and and Bill not only became a hit on
00:24:08
the show but he did meatballs he did
00:24:11
Stripes okay oh my God he did catty
00:24:14
Shack you know and then he's had this
00:24:16
huge career glor childhood yeah this
00:24:19
career you know and so there was some
00:24:22
people um the order of succession was
00:24:25
sort of leapt over you know what I mean
00:24:28
some people felt that wait a second it's
00:24:30
my turn all right you know hey I've been
00:24:33
here longer you know and like I said I
00:24:36
never had those discussions with people
00:24:39
but I would bet anything that there was
00:24:42
a degree of hey wait a second why is
00:24:46
soand so getting this not me I've been
00:24:48
here longer you know or haven't I proved
00:24:51
my Worth or that it look Laur threw
00:24:54
everybody into the deep end of the pool
00:24:56
yeah you know whether you could swim or
00:24:58
not and you either drowned or somehow
00:25:00
you made it to to the side of the pool
00:25:03
you okay oh yeah Lauren was Lauren was
00:25:05
amazing and everybody in the pool when
00:25:08
you get you get used to it you know Dana
00:25:11
is it is this sketch ever going to work
00:25:13
you know he was tough love and then you
00:25:16
know if you I felt like I had to
00:25:19
levitate the room I had to just kill on
00:25:22
the show and then you just pass Lauren
00:25:24
on the way to the next sketch and get
00:25:25
that little
00:25:26
nod you
00:25:29
know but so he was great that way that
00:25:32
to earn that compliment and then in I we
00:25:34
he'd review the show on Monday very
00:25:37
briefly and he'd always pick out
00:25:39
something very obscure rather than the
00:25:41
sketches that killed he said I I thought
00:25:43
Jan's exit off from that sketch was
00:25:46
breathtaking you know from attitudes so
00:25:48
Lauren kept you off balance but he had a
00:25:50
method to it you know to keep us off
00:25:52
it's so
00:25:56
hilarious
00:25:59
you know something uh when I went out to
00:26:01
LA to do the chandling show and Dana
00:26:04
that I remember meeting you through Gary
00:26:08
I think the first year we did the show
00:26:09
was ABC Prospect and I don't know if you
00:26:12
came to see Gary but I remember first
00:26:14
hearing through Gary right I I remember
00:26:17
and just just to intersect for a second
00:26:19
when I went there that night to watch
00:26:21
the taping first of all I love the show
00:26:23
it always it was and and and the show
00:26:26
was Gary's brilliant but and you but
00:26:28
then Gilda came out I guess she was
00:26:31
doing kind of okay and she came out
00:26:33
behind the curtain and I it was so the
00:26:36
audience reaction to seeing her well it
00:26:39
was just a incredibly emotional moment
00:26:41
you were there you know she she was they
00:26:45
was in remission at that time and she
00:26:48
said um ask me if I can help her make
00:26:51
cancer funny she she said that her humor
00:26:55
was the only uh weapon she had against
00:26:57
this [ __ ] you know she personalized
00:26:59
the cancer and when she came out and she
00:27:02
was afraid that nobody would recognize
00:27:04
her her hair was shorter my God and she
00:27:06
hadn't been on TV in many years um when
00:27:10
she came out the audience not only
00:27:13
erupted okay sure when I went to edit
00:27:17
the show and I wanted to use the angle
00:27:19
of her
00:27:20
entrance I saw that the picture was just
00:27:24
bouncing just a little bit and I
00:27:27
couldn't fig out why and then I remember
00:27:29
the night that we taped the show the
00:27:32
cameraman that on that angle he was
00:27:34
crying and his hands were shaking okay
00:27:37
so if you ever see it on TV you look for
00:27:39
it it's subtle but it's there but um and
00:27:43
and and David I remember having a dinner
00:27:45
or a meeting with you somebody named Ry
00:27:48
at the brillstein company because I
00:27:50
wanted you to be Ray Rio Ray Rio R Rio
00:27:54
manager and I wanted you to be on the
00:27:56
show I thought you could be Gary's
00:27:58
friend or something I know it didn't
00:27:59
work out yeah we talked about maybe a
00:28:02
pizza guy or I talked about dating or
00:28:04
whatever like a guy that comes in and I
00:28:07
remember that yeah because Bernie uh
00:28:09
Brad geretz everyone we talked about and
00:28:11
then and then it but the show went away
00:28:13
it was too after that and it didn't work
00:28:15
out but I I love just the idea of that
00:28:18
would have been so fun because I watched
00:28:19
that show it was so
00:28:20
cool it's um uh oh so this is just back
00:28:24
to Laur for give a very quick second so
00:28:26
we were doing the chandling show and I
00:28:30
guess it was around 1989 or 90 whenever
00:28:33
the the 15th anniversary show of SNL the
00:28:37
reunion show was and you know it's just
00:28:39
like going to your high school reunion
00:28:41
and you go all right what have I done
00:28:43
since I was in high school oh yeah I got
00:28:45
a car I got married I got a house I got
00:28:47
a thing all right we're gonna be okay
00:28:50
so we fly back for the reunion and the
00:28:54
door is open on the eighth floor and we
00:28:58
run into and beats who was one of the
00:29:00
writers when I was there she W she was
00:29:04
writing the anniversary show she was you
00:29:07
know okay and and I hadn't seen her in
00:29:10
many years and I go hi an what's doing
00:29:14
and she just shakes her head goes
00:29:15
[ __ ]
00:29:18
Lauren so I go not a lot not a lot has
00:29:21
changed here yeah oh yeah it was always
00:29:24
on the 40th um I I was the most fly by
00:29:28
the cedar pants show I ever been on I
00:29:30
mean we didn't get any of the Run
00:29:32
throughs or practice shows Mike and I
00:29:34
were back in a little room going I don't
00:29:36
know look for Kanye we'll see if we can
00:29:38
make something out of it you know but
00:29:40
yeah that was uh it's it's a very
00:29:43
melancholy or weird thing when you go
00:29:45
back there right when you go back to
00:29:46
17th floor 8h yeah just that it always
00:29:50
gets something comes over me a little
00:29:53
bit when I see the pictures I'll see
00:29:54
Phil on a picture and Jan and for the
00:29:56
obvious reasons but how do you feel when
00:29:58
you go back there there's a lot of
00:30:00
ghosts there for me it's John it's gild
00:30:02
I knew Jan I knew Phil but obviously I I
00:30:05
knew the other guys uh uh uh better I
00:30:08
work with him for five years uh Dave
00:30:10
Wilson who is our director our director
00:30:13
too you want to do what direct what the
00:30:17
show's in a half hour many changes no he
00:30:20
we love Davey he was like wait wait a
00:30:22
minute you want to put a camera on a
00:30:26
tomato am I going to get the angle yeah
00:30:29
SM would make changes he goes
00:30:32
Robert it was that after dress meeting
00:30:35
when it was so tense yeah up in Lauren's
00:30:37
office on reading all the Chang okay on
00:30:40
Sweeney sisters we're going to change
00:30:41
this he's like I can't it's a job that
00:30:45
should not exist directing s life it
00:30:48
shouldn't exist but it does by the way
00:30:51
not only didn't exist you know what
00:30:53
wouldn't have existed without Dave
00:30:54
Wilson was Dunkin Donuts as he ate them
00:30:58
like they were going out of style jelly
00:31:00
donut yeah such a nice guy too the
00:31:03
greatest guy in the world and um he he
00:31:06
lived in parcion New Jersey he he
00:31:09
commuted every wife uh night he had a
00:31:11
wife and kids and um and as I remember
00:31:15
it Lauren hired him very much because he
00:31:19
didn't have an ego okay that was stated
00:31:24
that okay it would be yeah there might
00:31:25
be an initial panic attack
00:31:27
But ultimately he would figure it out
00:31:29
because of the show you know yeah and he
00:31:32
was really good for it he was great that
00:31:35
way he was great and I I found that
00:31:37
super useful because I was in a couple
00:31:39
movies here and there and I was so bad
00:31:41
because I was being so directed and
00:31:44
doing hundreds of takes and on SNL it
00:31:46
was great it was just sort of get the
00:31:48
shot you and when I did church lady with
00:31:51
Rosie Schuster you know who was great
00:31:54
and she thought of the name Church chat
00:31:56
so we worked on it for like a month but
00:31:58
you there wasn't classic Direction like
00:32:00
I knew the character for my standup so
00:32:03
it was very liberating as a performer no
00:32:06
a character like that I imagine that uh
00:32:08
you were given all the leeway and he
00:32:10
followed you you know or he gave you
00:32:12
this much space on Rosie Schuster by the
00:32:14
way I insist and I know that Franken you
00:32:18
mentioned him earlier feels the same way
00:32:22
wrote when I was there what I believe to
00:32:26
be the best joke of the five and it
00:32:29
never saw wow this is this is Juicy okay
00:32:32
Rosie Rosie pitched a sketch of the 10
00:32:37
worst Hanukkah gifts ever okay and
00:32:42
number
00:32:45
one was the Hanukkah that they gave an
00:32:49
Frank a set of
00:32:54
drums no as a writer I'm going wow I
00:32:57
live to be a thousand you know look
00:32:59
there's always this little bit of a
00:33:01
competition you go to read through go oh
00:33:03
man I should have thought of that oh I
00:33:05
could have done that but there were
00:33:06
certain people like when I was there
00:33:08
Michael oonu or akroy okay Acro I could
00:33:13
never do bassomatic you know where you
00:33:15
would drink a fish so I would just sit
00:33:17
back and enjoy the ride you know yeah
00:33:21
that's so great so let for a second
00:33:23
because John blushi is an overarching
00:33:25
person in the history of SNL so you you
00:33:27
wrote a lot of the Samurai so you hooked
00:33:30
up with them and then wrote the final
00:33:31
nine of them I me how many were there
00:33:32
and what was that relationship like with
00:33:34
John there there was like 10 or 11 the
00:33:38
first one was John auditioned for the
00:33:41
show with that character he brought that
00:33:43
character to the show okay the very
00:33:46
first one was written by Tom Schiller
00:33:49
and it was Samurai hotel with with
00:33:52
Belushi and I want to say uh Richard
00:33:55
prior okay which is the seventh show of
00:33:59
the first season yeah from the first
00:34:01
season oo juicy now the 11th show the
00:34:05
11th show Buck Henry was coming in
00:34:08
Lauren came up to me and said before you
00:34:11
got the job here you worked in a
00:34:13
delicate Tes and didn't you and I did so
00:34:15
he says you think you can write Samurai
00:34:17
Deli and I went oh yeah the piece of
00:34:20
cake no problem he walked away I go what
00:34:22
the hell am I gonna do now I WR I wrote
00:34:25
Samurai Deli and then every all the
00:34:27
other Samurai the eight or nine that
00:34:29
came afterwards Samurai Night Fever yeah
00:34:32
Samurai Night Fever I wrote that's
00:34:33
that's what I remember because it was so
00:34:35
hilarious and the movie is such a huge
00:34:36
hit and it sounds funny Samurai night it
00:34:39
sounds very close you you know who the
00:34:41
host was for that show and was in B
00:34:45
Henry
00:34:46
nope uh OJ Simpson oh whatever happened
00:34:50
to him where is you know something I
00:34:53
just sort of lost
00:34:55
track he retired from football he did
00:34:58
Naked Gun and I I don't know what
00:35:00
happened to him now do you think Samurai
00:35:02
I mean this probably obvious question
00:35:04
could not be done in 2022 you you guys
00:35:09
probably had the most
00:35:11
leeway maybe maybe my cast I don't know
00:35:14
but it definitely changed at a certain
00:35:15
point I mean obviously did an Asian
00:35:17
character who didn't you know but uh no
00:35:21
more right can't could do I would think
00:35:23
you're absolutely right I mean certainly
00:35:26
from my ear Rosanne rosan Dana I don't
00:35:28
think could see the light of day oh
00:35:30
really why because some of her jokes
00:35:31
because it was sort of Puerto Rican is
00:35:34
oh okay oh that's right okay and and the
00:35:37
Samurai and she was in Puerto Rican yeah
00:35:40
no those days are over yeah so I think
00:35:44
that I don't know when it started but it
00:35:47
may have happened after you guys were
00:35:49
there it may have been within the last
00:35:51
10ish years or so you know I don't have
00:35:54
an exact you know when the woke thing
00:35:56
and canc culture and all politically
00:35:58
correct really started what's that what
00:36:00
are you talking about no go ahead yeah
00:36:03
yeah I mean it must get tough for every
00:36:05
year because it seems to get but the
00:36:07
show you know still has funny stuff it's
00:36:09
just must it's such a landmine to get
00:36:12
through and go well this could rub
00:36:14
people wrong and the whole idea of the
00:36:15
show was to rub people wrong and to get
00:36:17
laughs and to shock people and that's
00:36:19
that's really where it's hard because if
00:36:22
that's the point of it and that's the
00:36:23
point of being good and then you can't
00:36:25
do that I you know what's left just so
00:36:28
tough yeah for me I I I just didn't I
00:36:32
the idea that I was going to hurt
00:36:34
someone never occurred to me or the idea
00:36:36
I would decimate somebody uh sitting in
00:36:40
the dark crying you know I never even
00:36:42
thought of that so now I just do Western
00:36:44
Europe I can do France I do Western
00:36:46
Europe I do Ireland I'll do Britain you
00:36:48
know but I don't go east I can't do
00:36:50
Indian I don't so I just stay I could do
00:36:53
Putin Russian is not the problem I can
00:36:56
do all those cultures and that's where
00:36:58
I'm but I'm fine with that I can still
00:36:59
do a beetle I can still do a Paul
00:37:01
McCartney so I I I I long for the days
00:37:04
where we all made fun of each other and
00:37:06
then went for lunch you know what do you
00:37:07
mean we we we were F that's what you did
00:37:10
you know and and you know uh the people
00:37:14
who object are usually not the people
00:37:16
who you make the jokes about it some
00:37:18
other group who is telling everyone no
00:37:21
you can't do that you go wait a second
00:37:24
and the show was you're absolutely right
00:37:26
it it that's what made it the hit that
00:37:29
it was it it it um expanded all
00:37:33
parameters and if you go back and if
00:37:35
these rule applied well Lenny Bruce
00:37:38
wouldn't have been around you know what
00:37:39
I mean I don't know if Chico Marx could
00:37:42
do the Italian accent that he did no no
00:37:44
he's out Bruce is out Chico
00:37:47
out car done Carlin stays in the suit he
00:37:52
he he doesn't go hippie dippy he doesn't
00:37:53
go seven words you can't stay he does
00:37:56
the weather the hi be weatherman maybe
00:37:58
so yeah it's an interesting idea I even
00:38:02
in movies you see that the bad guys are
00:38:04
only uh vague Russian you know what I
00:38:08
mean it's somewhere over there know
00:38:10
where we take you Mr Bond to this place
00:38:15
and from nowhere you don't need to know
00:38:17
where I'm from I am from nowhere and I
00:38:20
from everywhere I Spit on Your Grave I'm
00:38:24
just bad that's all you need to know
00:38:25
that's fine but so I I'm cool with it I
00:38:27
got a lot of tools I'm fine with it but
00:38:29
even talking about it now on this
00:38:32
podcast flying the wall available
00:38:34
wherever podcaster uh it makes me a
00:38:36
little nervous you know because uh I
00:38:39
don't know aren't we the ultimate too
00:38:41
much yeah scared we scared we're we're
00:38:43
too much we're so white that it's not
00:38:45
even we're Al yeah it's um and some of
00:38:49
us have very nice skin considering our
00:38:51
age as you pointed out earlier I I don't
00:38:54
know what you've done and I don't judge
00:38:56
uh fillers I don't judge I've seen you
00:38:58
at a lot of clinics and it it's working
00:39:00
I don't judge wrestlin I don't know
00:39:02
you've done dermabrasion I don't know
00:39:04
how you've done it or why you've done it
00:39:07
but you've done it and you look ter I
00:39:09
germ abrasion on my wiener just and now
00:39:11
though just you're good now no more good
00:39:14
you look great so any tighter it would
00:39:16
be like it would really be off the chart
00:39:18
and then people would start to notice
00:39:20
it's like Madonna who I love is wearing
00:39:21
a mask I think it actually she actually
00:39:23
just wears a
00:39:25
mask what about James
00:39:28
Khan oh is he tighter now Jimmy KH oh
00:39:31
yeah yeah he's back to sunny
00:39:34
corleon sunny sunny Corleone is is yeah
00:39:38
his eyes are bulging and um are we
00:39:40
allowed to say bulging in this my sister
00:39:42
again I'll [ __ ] kill you that's all I
00:39:45
remember his bulging eyebrow well I
00:39:47
don't know I mean um I just put on
00:39:50
glasses fluff it up cop an attitude is
00:39:52
the big part of life you know act
00:39:55
Young
00:39:58
[Music]
00:40:00
hey Allan you know uh Steve Martin who
00:40:02
is my probably one of my all-time
00:40:04
favorite especially growing up but still
00:40:05
to this day he's he's very very good
00:40:08
you're tight with him because I saw you
00:40:09
wrote on his best show ever that was
00:40:10
right in his [ __ ] Heyday like back
00:40:12
then right oh that was a live show that
00:40:15
we did the night
00:40:18
before
00:40:19
Thanksgiving okay so it was the
00:40:21
Wednesday night it was a live show live
00:40:23
okay it was live and um boy that was fun
00:40:28
that you know it was because we had been
00:40:31
away from the
00:40:32
show oh a year and a half close to two
00:40:36
years so to get that Rush yeah way you
00:40:40
can write something in a half hour later
00:40:41
it's on television was really exciting
00:40:45
yeah it's hard it's hard to do jokes
00:40:46
where you do them in a movie and they
00:40:47
sit for a year and you go [ __ ] I gotta
00:40:49
wait because someone could step on it
00:40:51
comedy does not sit well on a shelf it's
00:40:53
like you just want to get it out right
00:40:55
then right then right absolutely and now
00:40:57
I write books and plays and and uh and
00:41:00
movies and if I'm lucky if I'm lucky it
00:41:04
sees the light of day two years from now
00:41:07
yeah yeah Al Franken asked me to ask you
00:41:11
another one he said you wouldn't mind
00:41:13
talking about your experience with the
00:41:15
movie North Rob Reiner's movie you can
00:41:17
pass I had questions about that too okay
00:41:20
here we go and the sequel South remind
00:41:23
me to thank Franken by the way okay so
00:41:25
this was a film done by Rob Riner and
00:41:29
well well it started out as a book that
00:41:31
I wrote okay was your first M okay I
00:41:34
came uh ended I left SNL in 1980 Robin
00:41:39
my wife and I started having a family
00:41:41
and at one point our son who was around
00:41:45
seven I was able to tell at the dinner
00:41:49
table by the way he looked at me and
00:41:51
Robin that the kid was thinking I could
00:41:54
do better than these
00:41:57
all right so parents I I wrote a book
00:42:02
about a little boy named North who
00:42:04
didn't feel appreciated by his parents
00:42:06
de declared himself a free agent and
00:42:09
went all over the world offering his
00:42:12
Services as a son to the highest bidding
00:42:15
set of parents okay so I write the book
00:42:17
for random house and I got the
00:42:19
manuscript now Rob Rina had hosted the
00:42:22
third SNL ever I sent him the manuscript
00:42:27
um just for a blurb for the book jacket
00:42:30
and I remember the blurb he sent he was
00:42:32
if you read only one book this
00:42:35
year I wouldn't call you an Avid Reader
00:42:39
okay that was the
00:42:40
blur
00:42:42
okay but he said you know something I
00:42:44
really like this book he said you know
00:42:47
I'm a director now and I'm going no
00:42:49
kidding he did uh Harry with s When
00:42:51
Harry Met Sally uh Few Good Men
00:42:55
few said I'd like to do this as a movie
00:42:59
so it's music to my ears I moved the
00:43:02
family out to
00:43:03
LA okay
00:43:07
and two years I'm spent writing this
00:43:10
script adapting my own thing now it's a
00:43:13
$50 million movie and Julia Lou driers
00:43:18
Jason
00:43:19
alexand Bruce Willis my old friend Dan
00:43:22
akroy a little
00:43:23
eight-year-old actress uh her first job
00:43:26
her name was scholar Johansson all right
00:43:29
Elijah Wood Elijah
00:43:33
Wood Rea McIntyre it just went on and on
00:43:37
now it's too big fail well let's discuss
00:43:43
that well I think people are interested
00:43:45
with a guy a career where have so many
00:43:47
things work this is just interesting
00:43:50
because I've had movies that I don't I
00:43:52
read and and just somewhere along the
00:43:55
way it's not what I thought and I think
00:43:57
it's interesting to hear from you as
00:43:59
you're saying along the way something
00:44:02
that is working something happens and
00:44:04
you something got derailed okay did you
00:44:07
ever figure that out no because um I it
00:44:12
may have been episodic he went to about
00:44:15
eight different countries and it might
00:44:16
have read like a series of sketches okay
00:44:19
with each set of parents but it was the
00:44:21
night of the Premier and I flew my
00:44:23
parents out from Florida Bo had two Les
00:44:27
Jews that night they were in LA and uh
00:44:31
the movie and greatest night of my life
00:44:34
they I adapted my own book it's a 50
00:44:37
then the reviews come out the next day
00:44:40
for those of you who don't
00:44:41
remember Rie EB's review of North and I
00:44:44
think this is what he's got in his hand
00:44:46
folks it's in his hand the review of
00:44:48
North took paper not even online which I
00:44:51
took out of a wallet okay I you keep it
00:44:55
with you at all times Roger Ebert was a
00:44:57
big big reviewer back then oh well he
00:45:00
and um Jean cisc had that show huge show
00:45:04
so let's hear it okay here's his review
00:45:08
oh boy I hated this
00:45:11
movie hated hated hated hated this
00:45:16
movie hated it hated every simpering
00:45:19
stupid vacant audience insulting moment
00:45:22
of it hated the sensibility that thought
00:45:25
anyone would like it hated the implied
00:45:28
insult to the Audience by its belief
00:45:30
that anyone would actually be
00:45:32
entertained by it oh now on the surface
00:45:38
this may seem like an unfavorable review
00:45:40
but if you read it again you know I was
00:45:45
devastated boy I'm gonna how long did it
00:45:48
take you acutely to get past that two
00:45:51
months I would say I I would say about
00:45:54
six months um we lived in La uh where as
00:45:59
you know a lot of people rude for other
00:46:01
people restaurants our son Adam went to
00:46:05
Crossroads uh that was a private school
00:46:08
that we sent them to S and he would not
00:46:10
only he would get taunted by the other
00:46:12
kids who were Show Business kids he
00:46:14
would he came home and said dad is it
00:46:16
okay if we change our last name to sorin
00:46:19
you know so it was um it was it was it
00:46:23
became difficult but it took about took
00:46:26
four to six months to get up off the
00:46:28
couch because I had given the guy the
00:46:30
power to um you know boy you know and
00:46:35
it's always some somebody who's related
00:46:38
to you they mean well but my father
00:46:40
would say don't read Time
00:46:44
Magazine page 79 column three I Doge
00:46:48
eared it
00:46:50
J passive aggressive friends that would
00:46:53
say something like I don't I don't know
00:46:54
if I should tell you this but there's
00:46:56
this review I I don't know if you want
00:46:58
to hear this as if they didn't want to
00:47:00
just rub your face in it so what was
00:47:02
your I know you did Cur your enthusias
00:47:04
what was your after North what was your
00:47:07
next project or success or you wrote a
00:47:09
book well I had written a book that was
00:47:11
a bestseller called bunny bunny it it
00:47:13
was about me and Gilda yeah and it was
00:47:16
my uh way of dealing with her death and
00:47:19
it became a a successful Off Broadway
00:47:21
play and uh that is even talk about
00:47:24
doing it as a movie um but but God
00:47:27
knows but but cerb um cerb was great fun
00:47:31
because Larry's my old friend and I also
00:47:34
uh there was a big success I
00:47:36
collaborated with Billy Crystal on a
00:47:38
Broadway show that won of Tony called
00:47:40
700 Sunday know all about it yes for
00:47:43
sure yeah and it was yeah so Billy and
00:47:45
you did a lot together as well go ahead
00:47:47
oh yeah we did that and then we recently
00:47:49
did a movie with Tiffany hadish and him
00:47:52
called uh here today I saw it I thought
00:47:54
it was great yeah thank you enjoyed it
00:47:57
Billy was awesome in that really really
00:47:58
and he directed it as well so you know
00:48:01
so there's been Peaks but you know look
00:48:03
the valleys are um you know I I did when
00:48:06
I was promoting the book um I did uh CBS
00:48:10
Sunday Morning you know that guy Dr John
00:48:13
lauk who is their medical guy on it he's
00:48:16
Norman lear's son-in-law greatest guy in
00:48:19
the world and he had uh one of these
00:48:23
kind of uh podcasts it was for CBS This
00:48:26
Morning it was called and I was in the
00:48:29
middle of pandemic and the theme of it
00:48:32
was
00:48:34
failures okay and I'm going gee I'm on
00:48:36
with Norman Lear and all you think about
00:48:39
is All in the Family and M and all that
00:48:42
he he named 13 shows AKA Pablo all these
00:48:47
other shows I never heard of before so
00:48:49
you look at your Idols you know you look
00:48:51
at the Paul Simons if you're going to go
00:48:52
into music you look at go not every body
00:48:56
was a hit you know 100% never Allan when
00:49:00
you did North do you is there one point
00:49:02
and we'll let it go but is there a point
00:49:04
during uh you see a rough cut an
00:49:07
assembly or just Clips or dailies where
00:49:09
you go I don't know if it's clicking CU
00:49:11
sometimes you're too close to it and you
00:49:13
go and people are like oh it's hilarious
00:49:15
and you're like okay good because I you
00:49:17
can't really tell along the way until
00:49:19
you see it all together yeah and then is
00:49:21
there one point where people started
00:49:22
getting nervous or you started getting a
00:49:24
Vibe like uhoh
00:49:26
well I you're absolutely right like
00:49:28
there's this old adage that no movie is
00:49:31
as good as as its dailies and not no
00:49:34
movies as bad as the first cut okay so
00:49:38
uh our dailies were great because like I
00:49:41
said it was episodic they were almost
00:49:44
like sketches that we did so so you
00:49:46
judged it that way um strung together
00:49:50
with a
00:49:51
narrative you go oh boy all right what's
00:49:54
go what's wrong here then we played it
00:49:56
in front of some audiences and Rob was
00:49:58
used to
00:50:01
95% yeah 97% the top two boxes with all
00:50:05
of his hits and you know I don't know if
00:50:07
we were in the single digits but we
00:50:10
weren't in the high double digits by any
00:50:12
means I
00:50:14
have sorry I just would because about
00:50:16
daes I have a theory about that because
00:50:18
you know modern Woody Allen I know he
00:50:20
has his issues privately I'm a
00:50:23
fan he started using moving Master shots
00:50:27
so a lot of threes and fours and people
00:50:28
moving in the frame so when I some of
00:50:31
the shitty movies I did that I wasn't in
00:50:34
control of the dailies were pretty good
00:50:36
because there'd be the the moving master
00:50:38
or a wide shot and you would see it all
00:50:39
the Rhythm and then you'd see it just
00:50:41
[ __ ] cut to pieces and it doesn't it
00:50:45
doesn't go from funny to to to pretty
00:50:48
funny it goes from funny to incredibly
00:50:52
not at all funny and that's just a DOR
00:50:55
Dorial thing but uh that's what I
00:50:58
admired about you know um uh Billy when
00:51:02
we did U here today and also with Rob I
00:51:05
did a few movies with him I've been
00:51:06
lucky to work I'm working with Barry uh
00:51:08
levenson now and Brant director yeah I'm
00:51:11
writing something with him and what I um
00:51:15
what Billy Crystal did in that movie
00:51:19
here today where he played a character
00:51:22
like herb Sargeant like the senior
00:51:24
writer at SNL kind of show and but he
00:51:27
had the onset of dementia and since you
00:51:30
shoot movies out a
00:51:33
sequence where was he in the character's
00:51:37
progression towards getting worse very
00:51:39
hard okay so but he would comment every
00:51:41
day knowing okay so it's about the
00:51:44
script okay I I was here now I'm gonna
00:51:48
be here so when it's cut together it
00:51:51
doesn't you know it doesn't jump in
00:51:53
cognition or or or whatever whatever but
00:51:56
that's what the great directors do you
00:51:59
know yeah they make sure stay on you and
00:52:01
say where you are and where you're going
00:52:03
to from here yeah can I ask you some
00:52:05
some basic questions because I think uh
00:52:08
sure because you're a writer and you've
00:52:11
had this long long career and you're
00:52:13
still you're you're writing a movie
00:52:15
Barry levenson you're 45 years in or
00:52:18
whatever I what what was it about you
00:52:22
you think do you ever analy do you ever
00:52:23
think like why me well how did I managed
00:52:26
this and and uh what was the main
00:52:29
characteristic you think you needed to
00:52:30
get through is it just keep going or
00:52:33
what would you tell Young Writers who
00:52:34
are listening to this podcast and
00:52:36
dreaming of having your
00:52:38
career I I I I would tell them first of
00:52:41
all there are a lot of naysayers out
00:52:44
there I don't know if you guys ran into
00:52:46
them whether he was a manager an agent
00:52:48
sometimes your friends you know uh
00:52:51
College friends when they all went to
00:52:53
Med in law school and they came back
00:52:55
Thanksgiving they made fun of me because
00:52:57
I was working in a deli and selling
00:52:59
jokes to Mory gunty I I think that um I
00:53:03
think that look when this book starts
00:53:05
I'm 21 uh at the end I'm now 71 so it's
00:53:09
50 years I think if you stay in your
00:53:12
lane uh I I couldn't write for I don't
00:53:15
think I could write for SNL now I I I do
00:53:18
miss the activity that I do I I that
00:53:21
that adrenaline rush and all of that but
00:53:24
with the exception of Weekend Update
00:53:26
which is Jokes which I think I would be
00:53:28
a I don't think that it would sound like
00:53:30
an old man trying to predict what um
00:53:34
what what the kids are laughing at okay
00:53:37
yeah so the the movie here today uh I
00:53:40
could not have written 10 years ago
00:53:42
until my father got dementia until
00:53:45
Billy's aunt got dementia so we lived it
00:53:49
so I think it's like um I think there's
00:53:51
an audience for everything that's honest
00:53:54
I I think an audience can smell
00:53:56
fraudulence a mile away you know what I
00:53:59
mean if we we put on a hat that really
00:54:02
doesn't fit you know and trying to stay
00:54:04
the word is relevant that's sort of a
00:54:06
thing of like for an older performer
00:54:08
trying to stay relevant it sounds so
00:54:10
negative Well yeah if you try too hard
00:54:13
it can really backfire you're trying to
00:54:14
say relevant it's like I think you are
00:54:16
your whole career you just want to be in
00:54:17
the mix that's shouldn't be negative
00:54:19
it's well you guys have certainly proved
00:54:21
that youve got longevity I mean how do
00:54:24
you how do you do you do tell me I mean
00:54:27
you go up and you do what you do well I
00:54:29
remember Lauren Michaels always used to
00:54:30
say he said you you just keep going you
00:54:33
you you you never stop it's Sydney po
00:54:35
told me that you just keep
00:54:37
going did and it's that thing of like
00:54:40
you're you're just going or so two
00:54:43
nights ago love
00:54:44
[Laughter]
00:54:50
La Lord would do that you know there was
00:54:54
an anecdote I have in my book and this
00:54:56
this literally happened when Shandling
00:54:59
and I we came back East to look for
00:55:02
actors for its Gary shaning show and we
00:55:05
went to catch a rising star and we're at
00:55:08
the bar was David brener who I had not
00:55:11
seen remember him I I flew on uh MGM
00:55:14
Graham with
00:55:16
himm yeah
00:55:19
Graham I flew I had a flight where I was
00:55:21
sat with David for the whole flight and
00:55:24
he had a tank top on he was really tan
00:55:26
and I go to is your life awesome he goes
00:55:28
yeah he goes on sailboats and he has
00:55:29
lots of girlfriends anyway I remember
00:55:31
him as being very likable he was a very
00:55:34
and he was always very nice to me we
00:55:35
walked into catch I hadn't seen him in a
00:55:37
while and I go hi David and he goes come
00:55:43
here all right so me and Shanley go up
00:55:45
to him and he goes and now he I was
00:55:49
hoping he was kidding I would bet
00:55:52
everything that he was not though
00:55:54
because I was looking for for some sort
00:55:55
of a wink yeah he said I figured
00:55:59
out what the funniest number
00:56:03
is
00:56:06
so so I like it already so I said really
00:56:11
what what number he goes guess and I
00:56:14
guess I go David there's lots of numbers
00:56:17
I don't have this kind of time he goes
00:56:20
Shanley goes what's the funniest number
00:56:22
this so David looks around to make sure
00:56:25
that nobody's with an earshot yeah so
00:56:28
nobody would hear this secret and he
00:56:31
whispers
00:56:35
267 and he goes you're kidding we go he
00:56:39
says I've tried them two 267 gets the
00:56:43
best laugh okay so shandley and I are
00:56:46
now
00:56:47
worried about David mental health we we
00:56:50
say goodbye we leave and when when we
00:56:53
were writing shows together Gary and I
00:56:56
yeah we need a joke here Gary going how
00:56:58
about
00:56:59
267 okay now when I wrote this book
00:57:03
Steve Martin read it and gave me a very
00:57:06
nice quote but Steve got couldn't
00:57:09
believe that Brena had done that that
00:57:12
267 is the funniest number so to this
00:57:16
day I'll
00:57:18
send Steve an
00:57:21
email that just says well I'm going to
00:57:24
make you laugh now Steve dot dot dot and
00:57:26
then I just write
00:57:28
267 and he'll write back he says I
00:57:30
really appreciate it Allan because I was
00:57:33
having a 366 kind of
00:57:36
day okay Dana I'm gonna take a wild
00:57:39
guess and say that you're not in your
00:57:41
kitchen okay I'm just I'm in a bedroom
00:57:44
Oh you mean David SP
00:57:46
buler no no guys I'm in a bedroom guest
00:57:51
guest office I do a lot of stuff here
00:57:53
wow yeah I don't really like to have
00:57:56
grand things David has a gigantic
00:57:59
Superstar alpacino and Scarface mansion
00:58:03
I have a humble town home but we don't
00:58:06
know who has a greater net worth and
00:58:08
that's a question the audience is
00:58:09
obsessed with I have cocaine stucco on
00:58:12
my on the outside of my wall this guy
00:58:14
let me tell you my think I got a house
00:58:16
man you'll never see I still do I still
00:58:18
do you know how I'm able to do Scarface
00:58:21
when I feel like it I say I'm doing
00:58:23
alucino Centric bizarre Cuban accent so
00:58:27
I'm not saying this is I'm just you
00:58:30
removed
00:58:32
yourself okay man look at you look at
00:58:34
you man you got a face like a baby like
00:58:36
a little baby look at that man look at
00:58:38
you man you don't know SE B guy so it's
00:58:41
a really fun accent to do
00:58:45
woman baby yeah you put distance between
00:58:49
you and that that's great and saying I'm
00:58:51
just doing that I'm not doing Cuban Amer
00:58:53
I think you're still going to get canell
00:58:55
but good try so if you okay here's
00:58:58
another one I like um your which you
00:59:01
could never answer your favorite thing
00:59:03
you've ever worked on either a sketch
00:59:06
movie a Broadway show oh oh you'll never
00:59:10
be able to answer this I'm just throwing
00:59:12
it out no no but I mean I can throw out
00:59:13
some 700 Sundays was really great
00:59:17
because it's about the process you know
00:59:19
what I mean the product was successful
00:59:21
but the fact that my best friend trusted
00:59:24
me with his family who I never met to
00:59:27
put words in their mouths um was it was
00:59:31
something really honorable and glorious
00:59:33
about it I think the book bunny bunny
00:59:35
because was also from the heart it was
00:59:37
about Gilda I had a children's book
00:59:40
called our tree named Steve which was
00:59:42
successful but it was also about our
00:59:44
family so it's a it's more of the
00:59:47
personal things you know I could say any
00:59:50
of the SNL you know when we started when
00:59:52
Gary and I started uh um I have the
00:59:56
fondest of memories of when we started
00:59:59
because we discovered each other we
01:00:01
became good friends made each other
01:00:03
laugh and we were on for 72 shows then
01:00:06
it got it got a little hairy towards the
01:00:08
end and why why why did it go off the
01:00:10
rails a little bit in terms of your well
01:00:12
I think that relationship kind of with
01:00:15
the relationship also is related to the
01:00:17
work I was married with three kids I was
01:00:20
the commission of my son's Little League
01:00:23
uh Little League busy dad
01:00:25
yeah you know and I wanted to write
01:00:27
about that stuff G it's Gary Sharing
01:00:29
Show didn't have room for that Gary
01:00:31
played that single guy still trying to
01:00:33
get so he resented the time that I would
01:00:37
think about something else and I
01:00:39
resented that I couldn't put this stuff
01:00:41
into there and by the time we uh ended
01:00:45
the show we weren't really talking and
01:00:48
it was uh he came back east and he was
01:00:52
at uh oh a hotel in Atlanta City like
01:00:55
the borada one of those places my wife
01:00:57
Robin saw that he was going to appear
01:00:59
there and she said I'm bringing Allan
01:01:02
down I'm putting you both in a room and
01:01:04
you're not coming out until you're
01:01:06
friends again you've been through too
01:01:07
much together and that's pretty much
01:01:09
what happened but Gary did Larry sand
01:01:12
did you know I did other things and so
01:01:15
we weren't on the same set every day or
01:01:17
in the same offes so I had to be
01:01:20
pursuant to him there was something
01:01:22
about him that I still wanted okay still
01:01:24
needed I still wanted and um we got
01:01:28
pretty close to getting back to it and
01:01:30
then he died you know so um I know
01:01:34
grudges you know you get wounded in Show
01:01:35
Business people people fall out all
01:01:37
kinds of drama I guess it's true in
01:01:39
every business but show bus and working
01:01:42
very closely is tough and especially
01:01:43
something that's very important to both
01:01:45
of you and it just almost inevitably
01:01:48
you're going to go in some different
01:01:49
directions writing and Performing you
01:01:51
know yeah what you know what attracts
01:01:53
you is about
01:01:55
to have a writing partner is okay I'm
01:01:58
going to make up numbers now 36 what was
01:02:01
it
01:02:03
267 the uh
01:02:06
80% uh we think alike okay that's what
01:02:09
draws you together but the other 20% you
01:02:13
each bring something to it yeah that you
01:02:15
couldn't have done alone so the Alchemy
01:02:17
is one in1 equals 3 you know and I had
01:02:21
that beautifully with uh Gary I had it
01:02:23
when I wrote Mar short show I had it
01:02:25
with him I write with Dave Barry now if
01:02:28
you're familiar with him he and I are so
01:02:31
there's an understanding but it's
01:02:33
different when you're write with
01:02:34
somebody for that person because if they
01:02:37
don't believe in it even you know uh
01:02:40
they're not gonna say it with conviction
01:02:42
it's going to be false so I I love your
01:02:45
pro I I love how much you just get up
01:02:47
you write every day I mean there's it
01:02:49
seems like you're such a natural fit
01:02:51
because for me writing is the toughest
01:02:53
part I find it really exhausting I have
01:02:56
to take a nap after a two hour W it is
01:02:59
ex well that's what that's what made SNL
01:03:01
so great or any TV show is osmosis and
01:03:04
the Synergy of all these people coming
01:03:06
in and out of offices a and whatever you
01:03:09
know I remember Lauren originally saying
01:03:12
that the more initials that are on top
01:03:15
of the first page of any sketch the more
01:03:18
he was happy with that means that had
01:03:19
the more sensibilities everyone puts
01:03:21
there a couple you can always snag a
01:03:22
good joke cuz everyone's good
01:03:25
yeah yeah and you know here's something
01:03:28
that I'm pulling out of the same
01:03:30
wallet remember the playwright herb
01:03:32
Gardner he wrote A Thousand Clowns he
01:03:35
talks about a writer's life okay you
01:03:38
your days are spent making up things
01:03:40
that no one ever said to be spoken by
01:03:43
people who do not exist for an audience
01:03:45
that may not come okay so it's like
01:03:49
total futility it seems like so it's
01:03:51
like a real force of will I find like if
01:03:54
you know something's going or or if
01:03:56
you're going to be on a television
01:03:57
appearance you're you're very you know
01:04:00
you're very stimulated and very focused
01:04:02
but the idea of being in a room for so
01:04:04
long and not knowing if it'll ever be
01:04:06
seen or get made that's the discipline
01:04:08
of a writer that's absolutely right it's
01:04:10
absolutely right love it is this a waste
01:04:13
of time ultimately you know is this not
01:04:15
gonna I see it but maybe it's not going
01:04:18
to touch somebody the way I do and all
01:04:20
that yeah it's very lonely to go full
01:04:22
circle on this which's so cool about you
01:04:24
now you're writing a movie with uh Barry
01:04:27
levenson yeah so pretty good shot
01:04:30
that'll get made is it live streaming or
01:04:32
is it a it's probably live I think we we
01:04:35
we see it as a feature you know but you
01:04:37
know who knows now who knows now you
01:04:39
know and there's another another one um
01:04:41
Rob Riner is now the head of Castle Rock
01:04:44
again and uh the the the director Barry
01:04:48
sonnenfeld oh yeah wrote A Memoir which
01:04:50
is hilarious called Barry sonnenfeld
01:04:52
call your mother rob optioned it and
01:04:55
they're hiring me to adapt it so I'll be
01:04:57
working with two barries you know all
01:04:59
three if you count Dave Barry but it the
01:05:03
yes so in answer to your question if you
01:05:05
surround yourself or work with people
01:05:08
like that where the odds are better that
01:05:11
it will reach fruition you know will
01:05:13
materialize it it does uh give you a
01:05:16
little bit more hope when you spend all
01:05:18
these hours by yourself so 50 years in
01:05:21
and you're just really in demand it's
01:05:22
just nice it's great ly and I've been
01:05:25
lucky you know and your book out that
01:05:27
I've gotten halfway through cuz my
01:05:29
Kindle was out of batteries but anyway
01:05:31
what's the name of it right now the one
01:05:32
that's your current book about your life
01:05:34
writer it's called laugh lines and the
01:05:37
subtitle is my life helping funny people
01:05:39
be funnier yes thank you for coming on
01:05:43
Allan David this was great we really
01:05:46
enjoyed it this is our our fans every
01:05:49
all of them uh my wife DAV I was just
01:05:53
with Lorraine Newman who told me she was
01:05:54
on your show oh yeah that's right she
01:05:56
said she had a great time she said she
01:05:58
had a great time sweetheart we love
01:06:01
having writers on and love hearing their
01:06:02
process you know so I I find it really
01:06:05
really really interesting and and once
01:06:07
again there you are you're you are Allan
01:06:09
s Bell just overarches the 50 years in
01:06:12
Show Business your name is always kind
01:06:14
of mentioned and it was always in The
01:06:15
Ether Alan swell is working on this or
01:06:18
he's there so congrats on that it's
01:06:20
pretty cool thanks for having me I had
01:06:22
asked to be on the when I heard guys
01:06:24
were doing this even before um was was
01:06:28
Tom the first one was Hanks the first
01:06:30
one yeah pretty much even before I knew
01:06:33
about that I I said to um Lori Jonas the
01:06:36
publicist I said I want to be on those
01:06:38
guys podcast so thank you for having me
01:06:41
the only thing that a little weird
01:06:42
happen is Franken has I let him have a
01:06:44
feed to hear this and he I'll just quote
01:06:46
it it texted me Allen's y Bell is a liar
01:06:50
nothing he
01:06:53
said anyway anyway Al to see you guys
01:06:57
okay take care we will see you we'll see
01:06:59
you at some point we'll see you at the
01:07:00
50th we'll see you at the 50th if not
01:07:03
before okay okay take care guys take
01:07:07
care this has been a podcast
01:07:08
presentation of Kaden's 13 please listen
01:07:11
then rate review and follow all episodes
01:07:14
available now for free wherever you get
01:07:16
your podcast no joke
01:07:19
folks flying the wall has been a
01:07:21
presentation of cadence 13 exec are
01:07:24
produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade
01:07:26
Chris corkran of cadence 13 and Charlie
01:07:28
finan of brillstein entertainment the
01:07:30
show's lead producers Greg Holzman with
01:07:32
production and Engineering support from
01:07:34
Serena Regan and Chris Basil of cadence
01:07:42
13
