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hey Runners only with dime Harley
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Runners only with dom Harvey and for the
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second time Mitch James thank you for
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having me back brother brother thanks
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for coming back I thought the time was
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right because
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um uh you were the very first guest on
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the podcast when it launched um just
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over a year ago so I thought we'd do
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like um an update like since so much has
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happened in both your life and my life
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since we met a year ago for the podcast
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and uh I thought it's a good time to
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check in not so for anyone that um has
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been one of the day ones and listen to
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the first episode with Mitch James or
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maybe you've gone back and listened to
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it I overshared a lot but this the idea
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of this chat's not for it to be like uh
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the same interview again
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um this is like a different updated
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conversation we might touch upon some of
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the same stuff
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um but yeah I just want to see what's
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been going on in your life
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first of all um welcome what do you
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think to myself
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and uh so your life um since we met last
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time your second album's been released
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yes it's called patience why is that a
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fairly self-explanatory title or why the
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I'd like to think so yeah it's um I had
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a big uh a lot of delays in the whole
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process to get the album out and ended
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up taking four years and many iterations
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and lots of record label drama and and
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all of that fun stuff so uh I wanted to
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name it patience after one year and then
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it just became ironic after four so I
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felt like I had to keep it
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I I feel like um I feel like I can
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relate with this podcast uni I'm on
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because I know where I am and I know
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where I want to be and unfortunately
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there are some things where there's just
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no way of accelerating that process you
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just you do need that patience but [ __ ]
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it's difficult right yes yeah it is it's
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um it's funny like I was talking to my
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mom the other day on the phone about
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something going on in my personal life
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and I actually said to her I was like
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man like I wish that just because I
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released an album called patience I wish
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that I'd like mastered and didn't have
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to ever have to address it again but
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it's something that definitely pops up
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and all areas of life and when you're
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energetic people like we are and I guess
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you know as a Runners podcast I'm pretty
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sure a lot of people will uh will vouch
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for the fact that you know the energy
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never stops yeah do you think do you
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think um
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you think it's like an ADHD thing or
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just like a like a drive thing like
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you're never quite happy where you are
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you always like searching for happiness
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what do you think it is I think
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yeah I think
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there's definitely uh some ADHD traits
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that have helped me on the way but I
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think yeah it's it's definitely like a
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mixture of uh of all the all of the
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above I think drive and perseverance and
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resilience something I keep coming back
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to as well though so they definitely
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helped me on on the Journey of uh trying
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to navigate this there's patience I
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guess for the last four years so it's
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yeah it's been a hell of a journey and
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very frustrating but um
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finally got some clear Runway so it's
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it's an exciting new chapter on the
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horizon that's a good it's a good album
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too we're going to go through it um
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track my track
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um there is a saying in the music
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business they call it the difficult
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second album have you heard that saying
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oh yeah
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oh I'll tell you what yesterday's
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sitting in the sitting in the chair
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where you are with some Rachel Hunter uh
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you know New Zealand supermodel he put
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on
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a massive humping show for her they put
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his biggest toy for like 10 minutes had
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a boy and a boy so um yeah why do they
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why do they you've heard that saying
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difficult second album and what is it
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yeah yeah well I mean so I guess the
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whole the whole yarn that of the
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difficult second album is especially if
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you not many people make it to their
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second album I I think it's something
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like 90 95 of people don't make it and
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the record label game so if you make it
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to your second album firstly that's an
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achievement and a sorry to your second
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album that's an achievement in itself
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um actually getting your first one out
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as an achievement too but there's so
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much pressure on it because the there's
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more budgets there's more expectation
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you've gotta you know especially if
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you've had a great first album like I
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did there's lots of expectations to
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um you know surpass your numbers that
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you got on your last one or to for this
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one to go gold or platinum yeah and
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stuff like that because you're expected
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to because the uh the last one went
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there so it's um yeah it's there's a lot
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of expectation there and I definitely
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felt it especially you know I tried to
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get different iterations of the album
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out which didn't get accepted and and so
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on and so forth and
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pardon me that really uh that really
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tested my patience and and basically it
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got the put the bar so high for the
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second album the magical second album
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that everyone talks about that you can
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almost uh you almost never reach it well
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I certainly feel that that I didn't
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reach it but if I'm being honest but I
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feel like you'll be that uh you I feel
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like whatever album you put out
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um it's your best book at that given
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moment in time but I feel like you're
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never going to be totally happy with it
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maybe I'm projecting here no no I I feel
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the same and I think definitely with
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with my uh my last album that I just did
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There's again that that so much
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expectation that was put on it that you
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know I'm just happy to have it out and
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it definitely was the my best uh work at
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that point in time but yeah it's just
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man it's just [ __ ] frustrating that
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this business sometimes and I'm just
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happy to have it out and and be free of
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that whole process and that record label
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and and everything so yeah you mentioned
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before something about um you you handed
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it in and it got rejected like because
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of the quality of the song is that from
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the label is that from your management
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is it people saying there's no radio
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hits on there or what what's the yeah
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that's basically all the uh all the
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record label
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um I would have had the my last album
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out literally
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um probably six months after the first
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one if I had it my way so they um yeah
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that's it's all a
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and the deal that I was in it was all
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about them having the power and the
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control as to when they wanted to
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release it so
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um so they definitely exercised that and
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and tested my patience so are you still
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with Sony that's your record label no uh
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no no no no no as of uh as a very
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recently no wow so who are you with
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anyone or are you independent I'm a free
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agent right right now so what what is
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what does that mean exactly like from um
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yeah what do you lose from that what do
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you gain from it
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um
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I uh
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uh so basically I have I have freedom
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now to release whenever I want which is
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the main thing like I'm not going to sit
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here and and slag people off but like I
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um I basically just have the opportunity
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now to if I have music and I um want to
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release it I can release it and so
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that's that's been the most important
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thing for me going forward is like now I
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can um yeah I can just release whenever
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I want which has been
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it's been frustrating for me because I'm
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such a prolific songwriter I write so
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much songs that I have a massive backlog
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that I've wanted to keep people up to
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date with over the last few years and I
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haven't been able to so now I just get
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to give people a snapshot of where I'm
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at maybe two maybe three times a year
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and and that's really exciting for me
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and if if another label deal pops up
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that and the shoe fits I'll definitely
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look into it but at the moment it's you
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know I've had such a
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difficult run with the whole uh the
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whole process coming up to this point
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that it's it's got to be the perfect fit
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so in fact but you you are just um
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putting myself in the position of your
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record label for a second you'd be um
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you'd be a nightmare artist in that
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you're you're so eager so enthusiastic
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so hungry well it must be like calm down
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we've got to work we've got a we've got
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a model there's a way we do this you
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need to wait another year album cycle
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whatever and you'll be like no well yeah
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I mean I would have thought that those
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those characteristics were something
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that they would have enjoyed but it
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turns out that uh I don't know maybe uh
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maybe they don't but um but yeah I'm
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if that's being a nightmare to work with
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then [ __ ] guilty as charged brother
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guilt of his child yeah yeah well you
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know you know I'm a fan I'm just playing
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Devils of course of course
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um
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well that seems like this seems like
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there's a lot of Pros there what are the
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cons like is it is it a scary thing
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being out on your own without the
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backing of a label what are the cons I
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mean money money's hard to come by at
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the at this at this point in time for
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anyone in this current world and uh
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basically the labels you know they they
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front all the money and that's how they
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they kind of run their business and so
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let's [ __ ] all day from them isn't it
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don't you get most of your money from
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touring and oh like none of my money
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that goes in into my pocket would have
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been from them but they pay for all the
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the production of them I can use it
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which is [ __ ] expensive and
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yeah exactly at dumplings earlier
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um yeah so it's it's it's a very uh it's
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an interesting sort of business but I
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think there's just a lot more risk and a
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lot more it's just scary having to go
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out on your own and
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um you know I've never been like a
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social media person and the truth of the
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matter is you if you want to be an
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independent artist and you want to
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succeed you have to Market yourself on
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the social media
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um
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how old did I just sound the social
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media the YouTube
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70 years old
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um but yeah like I mean I've hired
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someone to take care of my social media
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and it's an exciting new chapter you
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know like I've got a lot of music that
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I'm really proud of that I'm about to
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release and it just feels like you know
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I was the uh I was the project of of the
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label for a while and it worked and but
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I feel like there's a new chapter for me
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just sort of like as a man you know what
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I mean like I don't really want to be
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the the yes sir how high do I jump to to
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someone when you know I want to have
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that balance in my life I spend so much
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time you know jumping through heaps of
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of doing everything that uh the the
00:10:08
industry asked me to that it's I'm just
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kind of tired of that and want to just
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release music and and make my own music
00:10:15
on my own terms and I could really give
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a [ __ ] about the the rest of the hooplar
00:10:20
if it comes it comes if it doesn't it
00:10:21
doesn't it's just yeah a new chapter and
00:10:24
time for me to just you know do my thing
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but on my terms I think good for you I
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feel like you and me um are in the same
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sort of position in a way like I've gone
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from the comfort of having a like a
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radio salary where there's a marketing
00:10:36
team that promotes you to having to like
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pimp myself out on and on the Instagram
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the Instagram yeah
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it's different and I think as new
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zealanders it's a it's a very
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interesting thing because we're always
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taught to you know ourselves and not
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just ourselves and it's very it's very
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unnatural I feel to like be like hey
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everybody look at my photos for the
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fourth time from this weekend and but
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it's just the nature of the Beast
00:11:02
unfortunately now and you've got to go
00:11:04
to adapt or you're [ __ ] so yeah we I
00:11:07
mean we gotta help ourselves out of it I
00:11:09
guess don't and we're recording this on
00:11:11
a a Tuesday just after you did the um a
00:11:14
Dunedin slot opening for 660 and um so
00:11:17
the social media content you're talking
00:11:18
about I've seen that online it looks
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[ __ ] great yeah you've got like a
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social media person yeah
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um Mr Logan Dodds so I'm sure people
00:11:26
know ridiculously handsome oh God isn't
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he just
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um yeah he's uh he's an absolute weapon
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um and really knows what he's doing um
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with the whole social game and he's just
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he's one of my mates you know so it's he
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understands me and I trust that he can
00:11:41
portray me accurately on it so um yeah
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it's it's definitely a change and I feel
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kind of even just [ __ ] weird talking
00:11:49
about it to be honest because it's it's
00:11:51
something that I may actively try and
00:11:53
like not make a part of my life but now
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I got to make it a part of my life and
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[ __ ] I don't know I just just trying to
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get a [ __ ] enough bread to eat this
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big dog
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like an interesting relationship with uh
00:12:06
social media in that
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um you I feel like you've got a healthy
00:12:11
relationship with it like uh you you'll
00:12:13
disappear you'll go to ground completely
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for three months six months whatever and
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there'll be no posts no stories no
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nothing and then when you've got
00:12:19
something to promote you'll come back is
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that is that a fair way of like
00:12:24
summarizing your relationship with
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social media yeah I think it is I think
00:12:28
that's fair to say do you disable the
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account completely when that happens or
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I tend to delete it off my phone uh but
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not delete the account
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um yeah it's it's definitely a love hate
00:12:40
thing oh it's it's necessary evil yeah
00:12:42
so that's probably a better way of
00:12:44
describing it for me uh yeah social
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media is like
00:12:48
I don't want to [ __ ] post my
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breakfast and be like hey guys it's
00:12:52
stuck in bacon and eggs today look at me
00:12:55
um with the you know the blue eyes
00:12:57
filter on and [ __ ] I just I don't know I
00:13:00
thought that [ __ ] just rubs me the wrong
00:13:02
way and I feel but I understand that
00:13:05
people want to like get an insight to
00:13:07
you but I I don't know I I draw the line
00:13:09
at like my personal life like I I'm
00:13:12
totally okay with you know Logan
00:13:14
following me around with the camera when
00:13:15
I'm on tour and when I'm off stage on
00:13:18
tour or whatever but you know when I'm
00:13:20
uh when I'm sitting at home
00:13:22
um trying to mind my own business I I
00:13:25
have to draw the line there and I but
00:13:28
you know I suppose in a way
00:13:30
um I know I might be if I'm completely
00:13:32
wrong about this tell me that I don't
00:13:34
know [ __ ] but I feel like uh there's oh
00:13:37
you don't know [ __ ]
00:13:39
but I feel I feel like um everyone that
00:13:42
is on stage is to a degree a character
00:13:44
like I saw Lord perform the other day
00:13:47
and it's I I know to Ella reasonably
00:13:50
well and she's very different when you
00:13:51
see her in the supermarket to how she is
00:13:54
on stage and you're exactly the same
00:13:55
like oh yeah totally totally I mean if
00:13:58
you saw me on stage in Dunedin I my mum
00:14:01
called me earlier and she she describes
00:14:04
my energy as like flee from the Red Hot
00:14:07
Chili Peppers and I was like [ __ ] Mom I
00:14:09
don't know if that's [ __ ] a good
00:14:10
thing or if that's sort of like a
00:14:12
crackhead sort of energy I'm giving off
00:14:14
but you know like I'm if you catch me on
00:14:17
my couch on a on a Monday morning after
00:14:20
my run
00:14:21
that's very different human being to the
00:14:24
guy who's bouncing around on stage is
00:14:26
it's definitely like a character if you
00:14:28
will of so it's like I
00:14:30
I do before I go on stage on channel I
00:14:33
know exactly what energy I'm trying to
00:14:35
channel and [ __ ] it takes it out of you
00:14:37
bro like after I was done the last tour
00:14:40
that I was on last year after four
00:14:42
months like I barely talked to anyone
00:14:44
for for a whole month when I got home I
00:14:46
just had to sit down and [ __ ]
00:14:49
smoke a lot of comments
00:14:51
um and and just relax you know because
00:14:53
there was there's so much energy that
00:14:55
you're taking from everyone every night
00:14:57
and you've got to deliver for them and
00:14:59
you've got to give them your best self
00:15:01
and you know I if I'm not if people
00:15:04
aren't leaving my show going [ __ ] that
00:15:07
was some of the most intense like energy
00:15:10
that someone's ever given for a show
00:15:11
then as far as I'm concerned I've I've
00:15:14
failed my audience so yeah it's it's
00:15:17
pretty hard to balance at the best of
00:15:19
times absolutely I mean you you watch
00:15:20
you on stage and there's something
00:15:21
Primal and something very sexual about
00:15:23
it so there's a lot of Sexual Energy
00:15:25
yeah I you know like I think so a little
00:15:28
bit a little bit and I'm um I would uh
00:15:30
Define myself as a hundred percent
00:15:32
um heterosexual but it's like I suppose
00:15:34
the women in the audience they they want
00:15:37
to be with you and the guys there they
00:15:39
want to be you
00:15:41
if you are doing your job right yeah
00:15:44
absolutely it's and again like you know
00:15:46
that inner kiwi in me wants to come out
00:15:48
and be like oh no you know like I'm just
00:15:50
no no thanks but as I guess it is true
00:15:54
you know it's um
00:15:55
and I don't know where it comes from to
00:15:57
be honest I'm like bro I know Steve's
00:15:59
growing up I had no game got with no
00:16:03
girls I was the the last in line but
00:16:05
it's yeah I don't know it's just it's
00:16:08
something
00:16:09
knowing that no sorry yeah sorry for
00:16:11
interrupting but knowing that background
00:16:13
having no game no no checks into you
00:16:15
when you're at school was that may even
00:16:17
subliminally part of the motivation for
00:16:19
getting into music you thought okay this
00:16:21
is it this is a game about it brother
00:16:23
them about it
00:16:26
open as can be well otherwise you may
00:16:29
have picked up the cello or something
00:16:31
yeah a concert [ __ ] violinist or
00:16:34
something yeah no no it's definitely um
00:16:37
that was definitely part of part of it
00:16:38
and I don't know if I'm like consciously
00:16:40
trying I don't think I'm consciously
00:16:42
trying to channel that but I think you
00:16:44
know when you are like sort of like
00:16:45
trying to muster up your character of
00:16:47
what you want to be on stage and what
00:16:49
you want to want to um you know the vibe
00:16:52
you want to give off that is what you
00:16:55
want to be doing as but yeah like you
00:16:57
want to be the dude that the ladies want
00:16:59
to be within [ __ ] if the fellas may you
00:17:03
can stay and watch you can [ __ ] off man
00:17:05
yeah I fully get that okay
00:17:08
um I want to get into the urban patience
00:17:10
and run through it um track my track
00:17:12
because it's um man it's uh
00:17:15
it feels like a personal diary
00:17:18
you're listening to it when I was
00:17:21
listening to it I I there were some
00:17:23
things I wanted like it feels like it's
00:17:24
a form of therapy for you like getting
00:17:26
these words on a page I wondered how
00:17:28
like your family reacted to it when they
00:17:30
when they heard it because you know it
00:17:33
does feel very very intensely personal
00:17:36
um we'll get to that first of all one
00:17:37
other thing that's happened since we
00:17:38
last caught up like a year ago I think
00:17:40
when we caught up last time there was
00:17:41
still like miq managed isolation
00:17:44
quarantine and you couldn't travel
00:17:46
anywhere but since then you've been you
00:17:48
went over to Europe with Callum Scott
00:17:49
yes yeah yeah so calum's got big song um
00:17:52
he does the Robin song Dancing On My Own
00:17:54
it's probably as big as that he had yeah
00:17:55
I mean he's to be fair to Calum he's had
00:17:58
quite a quite a number of effects now
00:17:59
but um yeah Dancing On My Own was
00:18:02
definitely uh I mean there's it's got
00:18:04
billions and billions of strains and
00:18:06
yeah you were the reason bloody where
00:18:08
are you now if he's he's got plenty I
00:18:11
think he's got the number one song in
00:18:12
the UK at the moment too but but Callum
00:18:14
just an absolute gym and and that tour
00:18:17
came up with I think
00:18:20
I don't know if this is the the full
00:18:22
truth but there's something like the the
00:18:25
support act before that was on the tour
00:18:27
for the first leg I think there was some
00:18:29
compatibility issues if we want to put
00:18:32
it that way oh spill the tea what does
00:18:34
that mean well I I don't know I don't
00:18:37
wanna I don't want to be like a
00:18:38
personality clash with Kellum Scott or
00:18:40
um no I I think yeah
00:18:45
yeah it was um
00:18:48
you were like a last minute ringing I
00:18:51
was a last minute ringing but no I
00:18:52
didn't know Callum at this stage and
00:18:53
right I said you'd never met no you just
00:18:56
like my music and um and so I got the
00:18:59
last minute call up and yeah went from
00:19:01
Estonia started in Estonia finished off
00:19:03
in South Africa it was the mo it was the
00:19:06
maddest [ __ ] experience I could have
00:19:08
ever imagined it was so full on and uh
00:19:10
but yeah I mean Callum is now I consider
00:19:13
him a close friend and his team and his
00:19:15
band and his crew are just the most
00:19:17
amazing people and I've got a couple
00:19:19
more weeks with them coming up before
00:19:20
that tour ends um soon but yeah that was
00:19:23
that was an amazing little way to finish
00:19:25
the year after you know covert being so
00:19:28
[ __ ] for all musicians to have a little
00:19:31
uh World Tour in there was pretty cool
00:19:33
but yeah so that was that was while you
00:19:35
were sort of treating water I guess
00:19:36
waiting for your new album patience to
00:19:38
come out yeah this is free patience so
00:19:41
yeah
00:19:42
so the show that we talked about before
00:19:44
in Dunedin I'm guessing for that
00:19:46
you know you're opening for 660. you're
00:19:49
a New Zealander it's a New Zealand
00:19:50
Stadium people are first to see you
00:19:51
everyone knows who you are you're
00:19:53
opening for Calum Scott and [ __ ]
00:19:55
Berlin no one knows who you are is it a
00:19:58
different sort of show yeah you have to
00:20:00
try harder or do it's a different vibe
00:20:03
yeah sure
00:20:04
um and it's not for everyone to be
00:20:06
honest bro it's uh it's [ __ ] hard
00:20:08
work you're trying to win people over
00:20:10
that don't know you exactly you've got
00:20:12
to win them over and we had man that dog
00:20:15
humps
00:20:16
um
00:20:17
it's because you're all the Sexual
00:20:19
Energy you're bringing
00:20:23
um
00:20:24
um
00:20:26
it's a different sort of show like I say
00:20:29
if you um yeah you walk on stage in
00:20:31
Dunedin yeah everyone knows who you are
00:20:33
everyone knows your songs everyone knows
00:20:35
the words you will walk on stage in
00:20:37
Estonia opening for a room full of
00:20:39
people that are there to see Calum Scott
00:20:40
I feel like is it a different sort of
00:20:42
show that you have to do yeah
00:20:49
36 shows and I think I was confident
00:20:53
that I completely won over the crowd and
00:20:54
33 of them and the other wow yeah and
00:20:58
that's it's hard work and I I really did
00:21:00
get a kick out of of
00:21:02
the process because
00:21:05
I'm just a dude with a guitar in front
00:21:07
of a couple thousand people it's Friday
00:21:09
night
00:21:10
they've got a drink in their hand
00:21:12
they're not here for me like how am I
00:21:14
going to make them shut up and listen to
00:21:16
me because it's it's [ __ ] it's hard I
00:21:19
just got my guitar so
00:21:21
um it's it's a pretty it's a very like
00:21:23
uh
00:21:24
yeah I would kind of describe it as like
00:21:26
almost Primal in a way it's like I'm I'm
00:21:28
I'm gonna have you [ __ ] like
00:21:30
whether I I whether you like it or not
00:21:33
I'm going to win you over one way or
00:21:35
another and yeah I guess I mean the only
00:21:38
way I can describe it is I just [ __ ] it
00:21:40
and rip it you know I just get up there
00:21:41
and I just you know say a little prayer
00:21:44
beforehand and you know just ask for
00:21:46
some good energy to to bring out there
00:21:48
and just go [ __ ] it and let's not forget
00:21:51
any lyrics and not [ __ ] up any chords
00:21:53
and just give it hell
00:21:55
um so the three or four shows that um
00:21:58
you didn't feel like you nailed it what
00:21:59
happened
00:22:00
um so there was uh there's one in
00:22:02
Johannesburg which is the last show of
00:22:04
the the tour that was like I don't know
00:22:07
why but I was playing like [ __ ]
00:22:09
midday I was show number a billion out
00:22:13
of rebellion I'd flown to Africa I spent
00:22:16
longer flying to Africa and back than I
00:22:18
did in Africa
00:22:20
um and it was the last one and I was
00:22:21
just over in the crowd was it's all
00:22:24
sitting down on lawn chairs and they
00:22:27
didn't give a flying [ __ ] about a New
00:22:29
Zealander
00:22:30
Edinburgh was
00:22:32
um I mean lovely place but it was just a
00:22:35
bit of a an old folks home and was a bit
00:22:38
vibrous and in that show but I loved the
00:22:41
city it was just a tough crowd and then
00:22:43
what else there was one other one I
00:22:45
think which uh the fact that you can
00:22:47
remember them is alarming yeah I mean
00:22:49
especially knowing my brain
00:22:51
um yeah and yeah there's one other which
00:22:54
was a bit tough
00:22:55
um but otherwise yeah it was just like a
00:22:58
those are just a hard graph to win these
00:23:01
these fans over with you with just your
00:23:03
guitar but it's it's it's quite
00:23:05
self-assuring because if when you know
00:23:07
that you can do this like night after
00:23:09
night after night it kind of reassures
00:23:11
you that you are in the right place and
00:23:12
you're doing the right thing and and
00:23:14
you're on the right path making music
00:23:16
rather than you know
00:23:17
doubting yourself I guess and how do you
00:23:20
how do you like tours like this I know
00:23:21
they can be quite stressful and it's not
00:23:23
not all Glitz and glamor so you do you
00:23:25
do the show and then yeah especially
00:23:27
around Europe I suppose at 3am or 4am
00:23:29
wake up call and then you're traveling
00:23:30
to the next place how do you like how do
00:23:32
you wind down after a show like that you
00:23:34
can't get on it really can you I've
00:23:36
found ways
00:23:38
but yeah I mean now nowadays I'm a bit
00:23:42
better
00:23:43
um but yeah like on a proper tour like
00:23:46
this you just don't have the time like I
00:23:49
mean a typical day for me like there's
00:23:51
this one day in in Asia on this tour
00:23:54
that just went by went like this so uh I
00:23:57
had to wake up at five to go to the
00:23:59
airport catch a flight to a different
00:24:01
city uh catch the flight go straight
00:24:05
straight to the venue from the airport
00:24:07
sound check uh stay at the venue get
00:24:10
dinner play the show Callum plays the
00:24:12
show a couple drinks afterwards that
00:24:15
takes us to about 11 12
00:24:18
um I go back to the hotel wake up uh 3
00:24:20
30 a.m wake up call another flight at
00:24:23
five awake rinse and repeat so it's
00:24:26
really not it's not a sustainable thing
00:24:29
and it's I mean even after that one tour
00:24:31
I I I'm not gonna lie like I I had some
00:24:35
serious thought it's about like you know
00:24:36
[ __ ] is is this really what you want to
00:24:39
do because this is the reality of the
00:24:40
situation it's I think people think you
00:24:43
know when they hear about you know Mitch
00:24:45
James going on a world tour he's you
00:24:47
know having seven Sims every night doing
00:24:49
[ __ ] eight bags of cocaine it's it's
00:24:51
and it's very affordable in Europe it is
00:24:53
Affordable in Europe but I don't have
00:24:55
the time unfortunately right but it's
00:24:57
it's yeah I mean you know there's
00:24:59
definitely a couple dates where you'll
00:25:01
circle on the calendar and you'll have a
00:25:02
good time with your friends and oh you
00:25:04
gotta pack and choose the dates yes yeah
00:25:06
but I mean you know I reckon on this
00:25:09
last tour
00:25:11
um out of you know 30 40 shows there
00:25:14
would have been three four years we've
00:25:17
got really got to push play but um yeah
00:25:20
it's just it's certainly not what they
00:25:22
they make it out to be but I mean I love
00:25:23
it you know there's there's no better
00:25:25
feeling for me than like I said you know
00:25:28
obviously it's rewarding winning over a
00:25:30
crowd when you're opening but man it's
00:25:33
just different gravy when you're playing
00:25:34
in front of your fans and they're there
00:25:36
for your music and they've showed up
00:25:38
paid their hard-earned money and want to
00:25:40
share that energy with you you it's it's
00:25:43
impossible for me to not give it 110 and
00:25:46
the way that I was looking at I was you
00:25:49
know on the phone to my mum during the
00:25:51
tour and I was like [ __ ] it just feels
00:25:52
like a energy mortgage like I'm just I'm
00:25:56
just getting deeper and deeper and
00:25:57
deeper into this debt of energy just to
00:26:00
muster it up for one more show I'm going
00:26:03
you know I'm compounding [ __ ] dead on
00:26:07
top of itself and and so once you're
00:26:09
done
00:26:10
it's it's been tough for me bro because
00:26:12
it's you have this uh
00:26:15
non-existent balance in your life oh I
00:26:17
know Kanye I wish I could something like
00:26:20
that too
00:26:21
um but you'd have this non-existent
00:26:22
balance you know because
00:26:24
by the time that my next tour which you
00:26:26
know probably by the time we're now we
00:26:28
release this it'll be announced and
00:26:30
stuff like I I would have had 10 of the
00:26:33
last 12 months just on the road so when
00:26:36
you're at home and you're trying to like
00:26:38
rest up and recover you spend so much
00:26:40
time resting that you know you can't
00:26:41
maintain friendships or like start new
00:26:43
relationships or whatever and then
00:26:45
you're back on the road again and it's
00:26:46
it's it's definitely it's not for
00:26:49
everyone but that feeling I get when I
00:26:51
when I play in front of people and you
00:26:52
really like feel that energy and you
00:26:54
truly connect on it when they're your
00:26:56
fans and they're there for your music
00:26:58
and you're sharing that moment as
00:27:00
I mean yeah it's nothing like it for me
00:27:03
it's going to be humbling and it's
00:27:04
something that so few people get to
00:27:06
experience yeah it's such a blessing bro
00:27:08
like it really is I know it sounds
00:27:09
cliche but no no no but [ __ ] I'm I'm
00:27:12
eternally grateful for it every single
00:27:14
time I get to experience that feeling
00:27:15
like even on the weekend you know it
00:27:17
wasn't my show but getting to play in
00:27:19
dunners which is a special crowd for me
00:27:21
and they always turn up [ __ ] really like
00:27:23
gave me just an extra tank of gas what
00:27:27
happened after Dunedin
00:27:31
no I'm just thinking so home home game
00:27:34
home crowd day off the next day so so
00:27:37
this is a good a good little story so
00:27:39
and it's not it's probably not ending
00:27:41
the way that you think it is
00:27:43
sorry sorry yeah
00:27:47
um yeah so so after Dunedin
00:27:50
um I was talking to my manager and my
00:27:54
managers he's a smart bloke and uh I was
00:27:57
like oh I'm getting like quite a number
00:27:59
of like DMS from uh like from girls to
00:28:03
go over to their flats and like kind of
00:28:05
like do little concert things and then
00:28:07
when I had like you know 20 different
00:28:09
flats that are messaging me just saying
00:28:12
and I was like you know what bro like I
00:28:13
think I might like just go and grab my
00:28:17
guitar like you guys like piss up and
00:28:19
whatever but I think I might just go and
00:28:21
kind of like give a little back to
00:28:22
Dunedin you know awesome almost like an
00:28:24
Ed Sheeran style thing but you know very
00:28:26
in my flavor though
00:28:29
primary schools are doing hot female
00:28:33
plants
00:28:42
with the guitar and played some songs
00:28:45
and I I was just [ __ ] real cool
00:28:48
because you know I'm I'm not getting any
00:28:50
younger and like to go back to to
00:28:53
Donna's and just like see the spirit
00:28:57
still alive and you know they're all
00:28:58
they're all passing me bottles of vodka
00:29:01
and [ __ ] making me scale all these
00:29:02
drinks doing chewies and [ __ ] and
00:29:05
um I was just bouncing around a few of
00:29:07
these Flats just kind of I wish you know
00:29:09
I was thinking like you know how cool
00:29:11
would it have been when if I was back in
00:29:14
Donna's their age you know like flatting
00:29:16
if you know some of my like musical
00:29:18
Idols came through and like started you
00:29:21
know doing shillies and [ __ ] and it's
00:29:23
such a random story yeah you win them
00:29:25
over fans for life yeah I mean it was it
00:29:28
was a lot of fun that was a lot of fun I
00:29:30
had a shout out to all the gals yeah do
00:29:33
you remember the names of any of the
00:29:34
flats they usually have names don't land
00:29:35
up yeah
00:29:37
yeah uh what's the name of the plant we
00:29:39
just end up staying in the night
00:29:41
uh this advice I stayed at my hotel I
00:29:43
was I was a I I was a good boy I was a
00:29:47
good boy
00:29:48
um and I just struck out I think to be
00:29:50
honest
00:29:51
but yeah it was it was heaps of fun and
00:29:55
I feel like
00:29:57
um yeah I feel like Dana's needs a bit
00:29:59
of that energy so it's just fun to give
00:30:01
back after that but I I can't be doing
00:30:03
that every night in Europe and [ __ ]
00:30:05
though that's for sure yeah
00:30:07
um yeah what is your are you single at
00:30:09
the moment what's your relationship
00:30:10
status yeah you know I'm I'm single
00:30:13
um not for a lack of trying
00:30:16
you're quite a romantic hey like I feel
00:30:19
like I feel like you you deeply want uh
00:30:22
to find that one true love Yeah like
00:30:23
actually this any parallels with you and
00:30:25
Ed Sheeran
00:30:26
hey yeah musically wise and also I think
00:30:29
you know personality wise and personal
00:30:30
life-wise as well yeah for sure I mean
00:30:33
yeah it's it's been an interesting sort
00:30:36
of Journey with me for that especially
00:30:38
over the last few years there's been um
00:30:40
yeah like I I've I've been really
00:30:43
working on myself first and foremost and
00:30:45
and just making sure that I'm I'm all
00:30:47
good but [ __ ] me do I have some [ __ ]
00:30:49
luck do you how do you how do you mean
00:30:52
you can get them but you can't make them
00:30:54
stay or oh no I think it's just uh what
00:30:57
I've really struggled with is just
00:30:59
finding genuine people I think
00:31:01
um you know there's there's been so many
00:31:03
uh people that are coming to my life and
00:31:06
they just end up you know showing that
00:31:08
they're there for the wrong reasons or
00:31:09
they're fake or or flaky um but you know
00:31:13
I I'm I'm not too phased about it to be
00:31:15
honest you know like like life's pretty
00:31:17
good and um you know there's going to be
00:31:19
plenty of opportunities for me to to
00:31:21
find the right woman but I back it's
00:31:23
pretty annoying sometimes I'm not gonna
00:31:25
lie because you know it's like I was
00:31:27
saying before you know with the when you
00:31:29
don't have that balance in life it's
00:31:31
it's always nice to have a rock or
00:31:33
someone that can can Center you and
00:31:35
ground you but you know you don't want
00:31:37
to be doing that with the wrong people
00:31:38
either so it's been um yeah it's been an
00:31:41
interesting Journey
00:31:42
um and I I I've been striking out a bit
00:31:45
but you know I keep showing up to the
00:31:46
Batters box I I suppose um yeah I mean
00:31:50
it's okay if it's transactional so
00:31:52
you're getting a route and they're
00:31:54
getting a story by Sleeping with someone
00:31:56
that's got a little bit of Celebrity
00:31:57
Status yeah that's that's
00:32:00
that stuff that's what what has happened
00:32:02
in the past a lot and I just
00:32:05
you know it's it's fun every now and
00:32:07
then like I can't lie to you but
00:32:10
um you know it's it's not that that a
00:32:13
grounding thing or that uh that Soul
00:32:15
fulfilling thing is which is really at
00:32:17
the end of the day is what I'm after but
00:32:19
you know it seems like all girls want to
00:32:21
be treated like [ __ ] these days I don't
00:32:23
know but they you know they say they say
00:32:26
they want a good boy yeah but then yeah
00:32:31
um how many times how many times have
00:32:33
you been in love now I would say I've
00:32:35
been in love
00:32:37
properly I'd say I've been in love twice
00:32:40
right yeah I've I've had uh so long-term
00:32:44
girlfriends that I I would say I was
00:32:46
definitely in love with
00:32:48
um but the first one
00:32:50
um absolute Angel and that was that was
00:32:53
my fault I [ __ ] that up and that was
00:32:55
you know a long time ago oh yeah we
00:32:56
taught rather than the first podcast you
00:32:58
don't speak anymore there's no
00:32:59
relationship there no no but I always
00:33:01
wish her the bear she's awesome yeah
00:33:04
um and then yeah I I fell in love again
00:33:06
probably a couple years ago now like
00:33:09
2020 well the girl that I was with for
00:33:12
yeah about a year or so and then you
00:33:13
know the aftermath went on for a while
00:33:15
too but
00:33:16
um what happened there oh it's I think
00:33:19
just honest and in all honesty
00:33:22
um just very different
00:33:24
personalities and sort of uh
00:33:27
and and sort of just life paths yeah so
00:33:31
but you know it it didn't mean nicely
00:33:34
for me but you know she's she's in a
00:33:36
very nice girl generally speaking so you
00:33:39
know nothing but nothing with good
00:33:41
things to say without getting into you
00:33:43
know personal stuff yeah yeah fair
00:33:45
enough so what what are you what are you
00:33:47
looking for exactly is is what is your
00:33:49
girl
00:33:50
I think it's interesting because I I
00:33:54
went on a date with a girl not too long
00:33:56
ago and it went amazing and I was like
00:33:59
oh there's a lot that I like about this
00:34:01
girl and I I didn't work out for for
00:34:04
whatever reason but
00:34:06
um I think it's what I realized that I I
00:34:09
you know we're talking about the stage
00:34:11
character and whatever like you might
00:34:13
think that I'm a very extroverted person
00:34:15
by seeing me up on stage but the truth
00:34:17
is is that I'm actually quite the
00:34:19
opposite when it comes to like everyday
00:34:21
life I'm very introverted and chilled
00:34:24
and I like to you know spend a lot of
00:34:26
time alone and and all of that so I
00:34:28
think someone that brings out like that
00:34:30
other side of me someone who's like
00:34:32
extroverted and you know just kind of
00:34:34
like sunshine energy is is what I like
00:34:37
I'm really attracted to but I've I've
00:34:40
found that it's quite rare
00:34:43
um and I've I've yeah I've sort of
00:34:45
struggled to find people that um that
00:34:48
have that energy genuinely speaking but
00:34:50
I think that's the thing I'm most
00:34:52
attracted to is just someone who's just
00:34:54
like fills up a room so I don't have to
00:34:57
you say do you not have much of a social
00:35:00
battery or it doesn't take much to
00:35:02
it's a funny social battery it's like a
00:35:06
um if I don't know someone like I'll be
00:35:09
very quiet and reserved but as soon as
00:35:13
you get to know me like you probably
00:35:14
know this and the weirdest [ __ ]
00:35:16
you'll ever meet I'm the best possible
00:35:18
way though I like your weirdness yeah
00:35:19
exactly you know so it's it's yeah I
00:35:22
feel like someone yeah well for me
00:35:25
personally I
00:35:26
I can do like social things but like
00:35:29
it's like my once a week like as soon as
00:35:31
I get home I'm like
00:35:33
I did it like I socialized I was a
00:35:36
normal person now I get to smoke weed
00:35:38
and chill out for the rest of the week
00:35:40
oh my God I am just the same I'll go out
00:35:42
I'll go out to a thing and I'll put a
00:35:44
shirt on and I'll go out and then as
00:35:46
soon as it's polite to leave I'll leave
00:35:47
come home
00:35:49
put a t-shirt on and some um like
00:35:52
running shorts and just relax yeah and
00:35:54
just feel at peace like completely at
00:35:56
peace and relaxed yeah yeah it's
00:35:58
definitely what I I tend to do and
00:36:00
um you know if I I think it's the
00:36:03
personality type is a infp which is like
00:36:06
a it's an introverted uh
00:36:09
whatever the rest is
00:36:13
intuitive feeling perceiver right where
00:36:16
did you get that from is that from a
00:36:17
podcast like uh um there's like a thing
00:36:21
called 16 personalities which is like a
00:36:23
um
00:36:24
basically all of us fall under one of
00:36:27
one of the other personalities and it's
00:36:28
uh I think there's a lot of science
00:36:30
behind it apparently but I don't know it
00:36:31
might be a bit wishy-washy who knows
00:36:33
yeah no not at all all right so your
00:36:35
second album patience it was out um
00:36:37
November 2022 yes yeah are you happy
00:36:40
with how it went uh how it's gone so far
00:36:43
um if if I'm honest I'm I'm really happy
00:36:45
about the music I was really proud about
00:36:48
the music
00:36:49
um and where it came from why I did it
00:36:52
and and the finished result I wasn't so
00:36:55
happy with um with the results I guess
00:36:58
um but in terms of like streaming
00:37:00
numbers yeah but it's that's stuff you
00:37:02
can't control right so I I've learned to
00:37:05
be able to switch that off tangibly and
00:37:09
and sort of understand that my value
00:37:11
doesn't lie within those numbers but you
00:37:14
know I did struggle with that a lot like
00:37:16
in the last five six years about like
00:37:18
trying to separate my value from as a
00:37:21
person from my career but I I'd be lying
00:37:23
if I said wasn't a little bit upset with
00:37:26
how the numbers went but I know that you
00:37:29
know I know that I believe in the music
00:37:31
so yeah it's you know where it's got to
00:37:34
count for something right yeah
00:37:36
um okay so let's run through a track
00:37:37
there's ten songs on the album yeah
00:37:40
um first how many songs did you you're a
00:37:42
prolific writer how many songs did you
00:37:43
write uh to whittle down to that ten I
00:37:46
mean over that four year period there'd
00:37:48
definitely be over a hundred songs for
00:37:49
sure
00:37:51
um [ __ ] yeah wow yeah so 100 the the ten
00:37:55
best ones make the cut I mean
00:38:03
was more like what felt right in the
00:38:05
moment where when I was in the studio
00:38:06
last year
00:38:08
um like there's definitely some songs
00:38:09
that I've written
00:38:11
in that process that'll be good enough
00:38:14
to release but just didn't really fit
00:38:16
that narrative or felt like that's what
00:38:18
I was trying to do at that time so yeah
00:38:21
so so the 90 that don't make the cut
00:38:24
um do they go in like a folder like to
00:38:27
be continued or to be worked on or they
00:38:29
just get scrapped completely I mean they
00:38:31
basically just get scrapped I can send
00:38:33
them to my publisher who can try send
00:38:34
them out to you know if like a Sean
00:38:36
Mendes is looking for a song or whatever
00:38:38
but that's kind of there's a whole
00:38:40
industry of people that do that in La so
00:38:43
the chances of that [ __ ] sticking on the
00:38:44
wall is
00:38:46
not very high yeah but so I've got a big
00:38:48
backlogging catalog that
00:38:51
no one will probably ever hear
00:38:53
um which is probably you know seems like
00:38:54
a terrible waste yeah well I mean I love
00:38:57
some of these songs but I feel like
00:38:58
songs to me are just like a moment you
00:39:00
know like if I wrote a song like four
00:39:03
years ago about like I don't know how I
00:39:04
was feeling about probably crying about
00:39:07
a girl or something
00:39:09
on a Tuesday shock horror
00:39:12
um on a Tuesday that definitely wrecks
00:39:14
of a come down yeah oh yeah yes it does
00:39:16
the the famous case of the Tuesdays
00:39:19
um yeah yeah but um they basically just
00:39:22
uh yeah they get stored in the Dropbox
00:39:24
folder somewhere forever for no one to
00:39:26
hear them I suppose even if they're not
00:39:28
commercially successful or they never
00:39:29
see the light of day it's still
00:39:30
cathartic for you to write them at the
00:39:32
time definitely yeah definitely that's
00:39:34
the best thing about songwriting for me
00:39:36
is is the therapy aspect of it because
00:39:39
[ __ ] if I had it my God on a mess
00:39:41
already Dom could you imagine yeah I was
00:39:44
going to ask you have you been to
00:39:46
therapy or do you find songwritings
00:39:47
enough for you to get what you need no
00:39:49
no I got a therapy I'm a massive
00:39:51
believer and unashamedly it's I've found
00:39:54
an amazing
00:39:55
um therapist Dr Isabel who's yeah just
00:39:58
helped me through so much [ __ ] and
00:40:01
um yeah it just helps me
00:40:02
compartmentalize [ __ ] and when I figure
00:40:04
when I can compartmentalize [ __ ] I can
00:40:07
definitely just approach my life in a
00:40:09
more Freer way and with with a lot less
00:40:11
stress so I haven't been able to afford
00:40:13
her for the last couple months but I
00:40:16
have an appointment book for next week
00:40:17
and my God is she gonna hear it from me
00:40:20
Dr Roosevelt we might need 90 minutes
00:40:23
yeah yeah we're gonna need an extra
00:40:24
session that day um I mean we and we can
00:40:27
joke about it but Jokes Aside that is
00:40:29
the um that's the [ __ ] up thing about
00:40:31
therapy like there's a lot of people
00:40:33
that could probably do uh really do with
00:40:35
it and get a lot out of it but the
00:40:37
money's the prohibitive aspect which is
00:40:39
terrible yeah it sucks so how long how
00:40:42
long you been saying is she the only one
00:40:44
you've seen or did you say what I've
00:40:46
really stuck with to be honest I've seen
00:40:48
a couple over my time but I'm sure some
00:40:50
people are listening vouch for me and
00:40:52
saying [ __ ] you know yeah it took me
00:40:54
like four or five
00:40:56
different people over a long period of
00:40:58
time to like be like oh this is this is
00:41:01
the person that I need to be talking to
00:41:03
yeah and yeah and I was like yeah it's
00:41:07
as she calls herself my coach rather
00:41:10
than like a therapist because you know
00:41:12
we've ended up getting through so much
00:41:13
[ __ ] together she basically just coaches
00:41:16
me on what to say to girls
00:41:19
oh no
00:41:23
I'm joking now what I don't know if you
00:41:27
even want to share this because it is an
00:41:29
intensely personal but yeah what are
00:41:30
there any like real good memorable
00:41:32
takeaways you've gotten from here that
00:41:34
you implement in your day-to-day life
00:41:36
yeah
00:41:37
it's it's a lot of it's been situational
00:41:40
stuff
00:41:42
to deal
00:41:45
a deal mostly for me it's just been the
00:41:47
just having someone to talk to as cliche
00:41:51
as that is like this because you know
00:41:54
with my friends
00:41:55
um
00:41:56
I feel like I don't really want to
00:41:59
burden them with my personal [ __ ] when
00:42:03
it's just I need someone to talk to
00:42:04
rather than like I need a solution for
00:42:06
something so like you know with my last
00:42:09
breakup I I remember like I kept calling
00:42:12
to all my best friends and I kept I kept
00:42:16
falling into the same hole and I kept
00:42:18
over months and months and months I was
00:42:19
saying the same [ __ ] over and over to
00:42:22
them when they must have just been
00:42:23
thinking Jesus [ __ ] Christ like can't
00:42:26
you just can't you see the way out
00:42:27
whereas get over here yeah whatever it
00:42:30
happens to be yeah
00:42:32
I mean they don't need to need to think
00:42:34
about that when I could just be saying
00:42:36
it to my therapist the whole time and I
00:42:37
can save my time with my mates to talk
00:42:40
about
00:42:41
[ __ ] what we usually talk about then
00:42:43
rather than stuff that's you know
00:42:45
intensely burdensome and personal so
00:42:47
it's it's just I find it's just the the
00:42:50
best tool that you could have for just
00:42:52
trying to get it clear here though
00:42:54
because I mean I can only speak for
00:42:57
myself and I'm [ __ ] singer and I'm
00:43:00
crazy and it's always going up upstairs
00:43:02
but it just definitely helps to have
00:43:05
someone who can compartmentalize things
00:43:07
for you I understand it come out come it
00:43:09
up from a different angle that's not
00:43:11
biased or personal especially when you
00:43:13
need advice for certain things that are
00:43:15
going on in your life like you know you
00:43:17
don't want to be asking your best friend
00:43:19
about like seven tensely like intense
00:43:22
work question because they obviously
00:43:24
have biases and stuff like that
00:43:27
um but yeah it's it's the best thing I
00:43:29
think I've honestly as an adult it's the
00:43:31
best money I've ever spent even though
00:43:33
it is you know this [ __ ] expensive
00:43:35
and times are tough yeah it's an
00:43:36
investment but talking to your friends
00:43:38
I'm in sort of two minds about that
00:43:39
because it's um you now we all say it's
00:43:42
not weak to speak and it is good to talk
00:43:43
to your friends but on the flip side of
00:43:45
that your friends aren't professionally
00:43:47
trained so they don't necessarily know
00:43:48
the right thing to say and and you're
00:43:50
right like if you are
00:43:53
um if you're on like a negative Loop
00:43:54
cycle and you're talking you're bitching
00:43:55
about the same stuff over and over again
00:43:57
sometimes it's not necessarily to put
00:43:59
that on your friends it's just it's it's
00:44:03
I feel like you know there's a time and
00:44:06
a place yeah and I I probably just I
00:44:09
overdid it you know I went to the well
00:44:10
one too many times yeah it's dry down
00:44:13
there but yeah no it's it's definitely
00:44:15
something that I would I would highly
00:44:17
highly recommend day and it's um yeah it
00:44:20
needs to be done more and uh like like I
00:44:23
said coming from a dude who you know uh
00:44:26
anyone who knows me I'm I'm just about
00:44:28
as as laddy as you could get in in a lot
00:44:31
of ways but [ __ ] me I feel like so many
00:44:34
new zealanders could benefit from it
00:44:35
because they're so in our culture to
00:44:37
just be like oh no like you know I can't
00:44:40
be talking about that or or like you
00:44:44
know we we just
00:44:45
we just hired so much [ __ ] and I feel
00:44:48
that if I can be a light for for people
00:44:51
like that and without you know trying to
00:44:53
be too much of a Debbie Downer [ __ ] me
00:44:56
it's that's the best thing you'll ever
00:44:57
do yeah I couldn't agree more I I was a
00:45:01
lot older than you before I went for the
00:45:02
first time and I was nervous as hell and
00:45:04
then when I walked out of the first
00:45:05
session I was like I don't even know why
00:45:07
that was so dumb to be nervous yeah and
00:45:09
to put this thing off for years because
00:45:11
it's fantastic yeah it's great yeah and
00:45:14
I think the best thing is as well about
00:45:17
it is my therapist always is like she's
00:45:20
not there to like give me the answers
00:45:22
she's there to show
00:45:23
shown myself the answers and like it's
00:45:27
always within you and they just kind of
00:45:29
lead you to the to the thought processes
00:45:31
that you need to get to and then you
00:45:33
deal with it yourself yeah did you like
00:45:36
print out the lyrics to the songs in
00:45:37
your new album motions and show them to
00:45:39
her or anything because I feel like it
00:45:40
said the the the way that you've written
00:45:43
this album it feels like a journal in a
00:45:44
way yeah do you show me the lyrics or no
00:45:47
is that it's like no but she uh she
00:45:49
actually showed up to
00:45:51
mine surprise me which was really lovely
00:45:53
ever
00:45:54
um but she hears she hears all the words
00:45:56
but not in the lyrical way right just me
00:45:59
having a [ __ ] winch when you're
00:46:02
talking here it doesn't necessarily
00:46:03
rhyme exactly okay let's run through
00:46:06
this album so it's called patience it's
00:46:08
been out about five months now track one
00:46:10
is five months [ __ ] man is it yeah four
00:46:13
months five months yeah I guess so so
00:46:15
the first track is motions which are
00:46:16
some a big radio song got a bit of TV
00:46:19
play
00:46:20
um one of the lyrics in there on my
00:46:21
phone everybody's just a highlight
00:46:23
showing off but they're broken on the
00:46:24
inside I know I used to be that guy yeah
00:46:27
yeah we touched upon your relationship
00:46:29
with social media before yeah yeah yeah
00:46:32
I mean yeah basically that is exactly
00:46:34
what I was talking about before it's
00:46:36
just that yeah I um there was a period
00:46:39
in my life where you know I just
00:46:41
released my first album and everything
00:46:43
was going well and I I was very immature
00:46:47
in in the industry and as a man and I
00:46:50
just started reading my own hype and
00:46:52
started being a terrible you know
00:46:55
terrible boyfriend [ __ ] friend and just
00:46:58
thought special rules applied to me and
00:47:00
it sort of yeah it sort of came to this
00:47:03
Crossroads with that on social media as
00:47:05
well just like you know trying to be the
00:47:07
man and [ __ ] and it's just not who I am
00:47:09
at the soul level and I just got a bit
00:47:11
lost for a while in in that sense and
00:47:14
yeah just I was trying to be someone
00:47:17
that I wasn't and I think this song was
00:47:19
just basically about the Journey of
00:47:21
coming back to my my soul if you will
00:47:25
and and being me rather than trying to
00:47:28
be what Society tells you a pop star or
00:47:31
a rock star or whatever should be
00:47:33
that's good though I I suppose it's
00:47:35
something that'll continually happen
00:47:36
right through your life just correcting
00:47:37
the course like you know the course that
00:47:39
you should be on and uh I think we all
00:47:41
deviate from it at some point yeah think
00:47:44
you've got to deviate from it to realize
00:47:46
what your real purpose is yeah yeah like
00:47:49
I I just [ __ ] I just felt so lost but I
00:47:52
felt that like if if I was going to be a
00:47:55
quote unquote pop star this is what you
00:47:57
had to do because growing up you know
00:47:59
like me and my me and my mates growing
00:48:01
up you know you listen to Wiz Khalifa
00:48:04
and all you gotta do you know you gotta
00:48:06
[ __ ] [ __ ] smoke weed and get [ __ ]
00:48:08
up and all this [ __ ] and that's what I
00:48:10
thought you had to do yeah so I I yeah I
00:48:13
I sort of went down that path and and
00:48:16
[ __ ] up some things that that were
00:48:18
that meant a lot to me and yeah you can
00:48:20
either when you get to that crossroads
00:48:22
you can either go oh well I'm gonna
00:48:24
turn into 10 times more of a [ __ ]
00:48:27
[ __ ] [ __ ] or I'm gonna turn it
00:48:29
around and I feel like the turning
00:48:31
around process is [ __ ] long you know
00:48:34
what I mean I only really got to a place
00:48:35
where I'm truly like happy with myself
00:48:37
as a man probably like you know in the
00:48:40
last year or so and it's it's it's
00:48:42
there's no blueprint on how to be
00:48:45
a successful pop star or like this
00:48:49
especially when you know you haven't had
00:48:50
much mates growing up or you've got a
00:48:51
hard time and and whatever like like I
00:48:54
did it's there's no there's no blueprint
00:48:56
hey so yeah that's that song was was all
00:48:59
about just all the [ __ ] that life had
00:49:02
hit me in the in the last four years and
00:49:04
just trying to make sense of it yeah
00:49:07
that's the thing so if you if you do
00:49:09
things that don't sit comfortably with
00:49:11
the core of who you are as a person and
00:49:13
it has a negative impact on other people
00:49:15
I think you feel really bad about it a
00:49:17
more guilt and shame perhaps yeah
00:49:19
absolutely absolutely and
00:49:22
uh yeah I think that's just like a full
00:49:24
circle song motions of sort of realizing
00:49:27
you know I was really proud of who I was
00:49:29
before even though I was very young like
00:49:31
before I saw my deal I was very
00:49:33
idealistic and did these things for all
00:49:35
the right reason and then to completely
00:49:37
lose it and go to the completely
00:49:39
opposite way and then yeah to sort of
00:49:42
just reverse the cycle and it's like
00:49:44
walking up an escalator that's going the
00:49:47
other way you know it's it's [ __ ]
00:49:49
tough work but if you keep out of you
00:49:50
slowly get there yeah I see kids do it
00:49:52
all the time yeah Westfield yeah I think
00:49:56
I still do it as a grown ass adult
00:49:57
sometimes okay the second track is
00:50:00
called stuck in denial
00:50:01
um which is a
00:50:03
if you're one of those people that just
00:50:04
listens to songs but not necessarily the
00:50:06
lyrics you think it's a happy song right
00:50:08
it's a happy Up Tempo song
00:50:10
um but it's got lyrics like this some
00:50:12
days I wake up blue could probably maybe
00:50:14
use some help I'm still the same as you
00:50:17
lonely and broken too yeah it's um It's
00:50:20
A Hard wrench mate yeah it's a funny
00:50:22
song that one because like you said it's
00:50:24
very up
00:50:26
positive musically
00:50:28
um but I I actually got inspired by
00:50:32
um I don't know if you've heard of
00:50:34
Nietzsche like the philosopher but he
00:50:37
had this like uh concept called Amor
00:50:40
Fati which is like translates from Latin
00:50:42
to love of Fate which is basically
00:50:44
saying like no matter what happens in
00:50:47
your life uh it's you know it's sort of
00:50:49
like a follow-on from motions in a way
00:50:51
that like no matter what happens because
00:50:53
there's been so much [ __ ] that's
00:50:54
happened from album one to album two in
00:50:56
my life that I didn't really share with
00:50:58
anyone that was just consistent blow
00:51:00
after blow after blow after blow and it
00:51:03
just felt like I couldn't buy a trick
00:51:04
but you know I always
00:51:06
I think this is I sound like a weird
00:51:09
segue but this is why I like smoking
00:51:12
weed so much is because it can allow me
00:51:14
in those moments to get this perspective
00:51:16
on life of like actually
00:51:19
everything's [ __ ] all good I got a
00:51:22
roof over my head I've got food my mum
00:51:25
and dad are still lucky enough to be
00:51:27
alive I've got two great sisters I've
00:51:29
got some great friends life's [ __ ]
00:51:31
good you know so I made this song
00:51:34
really about no matter what happens in
00:51:37
life like I'll be quote unquote stuck in
00:51:40
denial because I'm gonna find the
00:51:43
happiness and no matter what [ __ ] gets
00:51:46
thrown at me and it's quite it sounds
00:51:49
like quite deep for when you listen to
00:51:51
the song it sounds like a basic kind of
00:51:53
mindless song on the surface but it
00:51:55
really is to me like a song that is just
00:51:58
about like grit and finding that yeah
00:52:01
the Amor Fati the love of of whatever
00:52:03
happens and comes across your plate is
00:52:05
and treating it as a good and positive
00:52:07
experience so how does the songwriting
00:52:10
process work with a song like that like
00:52:11
why is it why is it not like a a slow
00:52:14
Melancholy sort of track
00:52:16
I mean that particular one
00:52:19
um it was a funny day because I I hadn't
00:52:22
this is the first day I'd met for Kyle
00:52:23
or her injured up producing this album
00:52:26
and the whole next album that I've been
00:52:28
doing and he's like a musical soul mate
00:52:30
to me but I hadn't met him that's the
00:52:31
first day I met him and
00:52:33
um I opened the door to this flat in LA
00:52:35
in the six foot four moldy dudes like
00:52:37
killed it bro and I was like [ __ ] like
00:52:40
we [ __ ] this feels like we could be on
00:52:43
to something and so we just had a couple
00:52:45
beers and we started talking about you
00:52:48
know
00:52:49
you know what we were feeling in life
00:52:51
and I told him what was going on in my
00:52:53
life at the time there was a lot of [ __ ]
00:52:54
going on and but I said to him I because
00:52:58
I wrote motions the day before and so I
00:53:02
said to him I I don't really really want
00:53:04
to write right [ __ ] yeah like a lot
00:53:07
of shit's been going on but I'm just not
00:53:08
in that mood today like I want to write
00:53:10
something that makes me want to get up
00:53:12
and and [ __ ] get after it not like uh
00:53:15
I feel so [ __ ] right now well that's a
00:53:19
joke
00:53:22
yeah so we just it was just really good
00:53:25
vibes and so we started writing this
00:53:27
chorus and
00:53:29
um you know we had the chords playing
00:53:30
and stuff and we just started writing
00:53:31
the chorus and
00:53:33
um it just felt really right
00:53:36
um
00:53:36
writing the chorus first and then I just
00:53:39
kind of said what was going on you know
00:53:42
and
00:53:43
um yeah all the lyrics are very
00:53:47
um I guess quite vulnerable in the sense
00:53:49
yeah very much it's just saying like man
00:53:52
yeah you can pile on a
00:53:54
[ __ ] off the [ __ ] after [ __ ] on onto my
00:53:57
back but um I'm gonna find a way to to
00:53:59
smile through it because as far as we
00:54:01
know we only get one-shotted and some I
00:54:03
may as well have a [ __ ] good time a
00:54:05
hundred percent where does that um
00:54:07
strength and resilience come from I know
00:54:08
we touched upon this on the first um
00:54:10
chat that we had like a year ago and
00:54:12
your mum's big saying that she drummed
00:54:14
into you was um this too shall pass yeah
00:54:16
um but [ __ ] man you've been through some
00:54:18
setbacks hey it's like yeah like growing
00:54:21
up feels like sit back after sit back
00:54:22
after sit back and you keep bouncing
00:54:24
back
00:54:25
I mean honestly I I think you know I
00:54:29
didn't get along with my parents for the
00:54:30
longest time but I think I have to to
00:54:32
probably genetically give them that
00:54:35
credit of I I it's just
00:54:38
it's just in my blood I like my mum it
00:54:42
used to make me cringe like her job what
00:54:44
she would do she ran this charity
00:54:47
um which is basically like make a wish
00:54:48
for for adults with um you know that are
00:54:51
dying and she's will not [ __ ] stop
00:54:54
calling up company after company just
00:54:57
asking for free [ __ ] for these dying
00:54:59
people and I used to just cringe and die
00:55:02
inside hearing it just getting rejected
00:55:03
rejected rejected rejected should keep
00:55:06
just picking up the phone picking up the
00:55:08
phone and because she just had this goal
00:55:09
in mind of like I'm going to make this
00:55:11
experience for this person and their
00:55:13
family so special that I'm not [ __ ]
00:55:15
giving up and so cool and
00:55:18
I personally could never do that on the
00:55:20
phone I would [ __ ] that but but I guess
00:55:24
it's like just that sense of resilience
00:55:26
and
00:55:27
um and my mum's like a very loud and
00:55:30
extroverted energetic human but I think
00:55:33
also from my dad's side my dad's uh uh
00:55:36
hard-nosed Greymouth dude and he's he's
00:55:39
got a soft inside but [ __ ] he's tough as
00:55:42
nails and like is a quiet hard worker
00:55:45
and so I'd like to think that I I kind
00:55:47
of just got the best of both worlds from
00:55:49
them in terms of mums
00:55:51
[ __ ] stick ability and and never give
00:55:54
up attitude and and Dad's you know
00:55:56
stomach stoic humility yeah and and I
00:56:00
those are the sort of things that I try
00:56:02
and and channel mostly from them and I'm
00:56:07
I'm grateful that I have them because I
00:56:09
wouldn't I wouldn't be here without
00:56:10
those characteristics for sure yeah
00:56:12
because you look at your you look at
00:56:13
your life so um we talked about this on
00:56:15
the first podcast so
00:56:17
um your parents kind of [ __ ] up your
00:56:18
schooling experience by uh so you you
00:56:21
you were in a circle with some weed and
00:56:24
you went home and told your mum and then
00:56:26
your mum went and told the school so you
00:56:27
were sort of an outcast after that so
00:56:29
you got no mates at school you're mad at
00:56:31
your parents so you feel all alone and
00:56:34
then
00:56:35
um yeah there was like um an attempt at
00:56:37
suicide where you barricaded yourself in
00:56:39
your room yeah and then after that it's
00:56:41
not like um it's not like the light at
00:56:44
the end of the tunnel at that point it's
00:56:45
like there's just things get get sort of
00:56:48
get further and further down like you're
00:56:50
over you're overseas you're sleeping
00:56:52
rough yeah you know and it's like
00:56:55
there is sayings like this too shall
00:56:57
pass and just put one foot in front of
00:56:59
the other and it doesn't say stay stormy
00:57:00
forever but [ __ ] it felt like a long
00:57:03
storm you were traveling through yeah it
00:57:05
did I mean and that's just you know that
00:57:07
sort of felt like the first album
00:57:08
Journey it was was those sort of
00:57:11
um mirrors but then I mean since then
00:57:14
you know I've just the behind the scenes
00:57:16
battles that I've had to face it also
00:57:19
kind of feels like that non-stop
00:57:20
challenges and you know I don't want to
00:57:23
get sued by anyone but you know there's
00:57:25
um there's been what what have what have
00:57:28
you got that they can take [ __ ] off the
00:57:30
shirt on your bed oh yeah [ __ ] off
00:57:33
um yeah only 18 of that apparently but
00:57:38
um yeah so yeah but it's been just it's
00:57:41
been Non-Stop and I I don't know why you
00:57:45
know they this that's kind of how my
00:57:47
path goes is I tend to take the hard
00:57:50
option or I make a decision that sort of
00:57:53
leads me down a road of a lot the
00:57:55
treacherous [ __ ] but
00:57:57
I don't know it's just it's
00:58:00
it's I feel like I should be in a
00:58:02
different place right now with how much
00:58:03
work I've put in but the the mentality
00:58:06
still stays the same for me as as long
00:58:08
as I'm I'm in this game I'm I'm not
00:58:12
going to
00:58:13
I'm not going to give this up without a
00:58:15
fear crack like my manager called me the
00:58:17
other day and said you know again
00:58:18
without trying to get sued or say too
00:58:21
much stuff about what was going on he
00:58:23
said you know like the your project
00:58:25
hasn't had
00:58:27
a a proper run like there's there hasn't
00:58:31
been the situation where everyone who's
00:58:33
worked on your projects has said we've
00:58:35
given the Mitch James thing a full Vlog
00:58:38
and it just hasn't worked so until I
00:58:41
have that feeling of man I really have
00:58:45
given it all I had a clean run
00:58:46
everything finally lined up and I gave
00:58:48
it a crack and it didn't work until that
00:58:51
moment I'm gonna be a psycho like my mum
00:58:54
I love it I'm pleased you're a psycho
00:58:56
yeah I think it's a good way to be okay
00:58:58
track three on the oven patients
00:59:00
Armageddon
00:59:01
hey yeah it's a different vibe this one
00:59:04
there's a line in there to sex real
00:59:06
quick there's a line a line in there
00:59:08
which I love it's very clever
00:59:10
um I feel like it's something you could
00:59:12
buy from from a t-shirt a t-shirt on
00:59:14
wish or something
00:59:15
it's just you and I and Baby I'ma
00:59:19
getting you tonight yeah yeah I love it
00:59:21
it's just like a happy what is that yes
00:59:24
I mean I wrote the song about my my ex
00:59:26
and
00:59:27
um you know all of her friends you know
00:59:29
they're they're all [ __ ] stunning
00:59:31
girls and they're you know they all they
00:59:34
all love it and they
00:59:36
they all love the fact that the the
00:59:37
songs about them but um you know I was
00:59:40
writing this song with with Machu from
00:59:42
from 660 and we um I was just uh it was
00:59:48
a joke first that line I was because
00:59:50
it's a great line it was it was covered
00:59:52
times and lockdown times and we had the
00:59:54
idea of like you know
00:59:56
feels like Armageddon and then I was
00:59:58
like what about you know I'm getting you
01:00:01
tonight and he's like oh [ __ ] and so
01:00:04
yeah we just kind of ran with it and um
01:00:07
yeah it's just a real fun song I I
01:00:09
really enjoyed it because
01:00:12
um it's just it's it's just a laugh you
01:00:14
know yeah it's a cheesy pickup line and
01:00:16
a song and it's great yeah but you know
01:00:18
I love the lyrics in the in the verse
01:00:19
that are about you know it's it's
01:00:21
basically just saying like [ __ ] there
01:00:23
could be a volcano exploding right in
01:00:25
front of us and in the midst of a 9.6
01:00:27
Richter Scale earthquake but like you're
01:00:30
all that I see and it's just a fun way
01:00:33
of delivering it and a bit tongue and
01:00:35
shake and I'd never [ __ ] ever say
01:00:37
that to a girl in real life it's cheesy
01:00:39
it's [ __ ] awful I love it so how does
01:00:43
it work when you write a song with um
01:00:45
say Machu from 660 who's who's holding
01:00:48
the pen who's holding a guitar we just
01:00:50
go back and forth yeah
01:00:52
um is
01:00:53
insanely insanely gifted with Melody he
01:00:57
can just he can just [ __ ] out something
01:00:59
like you know with Melody and I I when
01:01:03
I'm working with him like you kind of
01:01:05
just pick your strengths like I I
01:01:07
believe I'm strong with Melody but when
01:01:09
I'm
01:01:10
if I'm going to chat with Melody with
01:01:12
with Machi Walters I'm not winning that
01:01:14
battle so
01:01:15
if and if I'm riding with my you know
01:01:18
he'll hum some Melodies and or play some
01:01:21
chords and hum some stuff and I'll be
01:01:22
like oh that [ __ ] Melody sounds great
01:01:24
write a write some lyrics to it and then
01:01:27
we sort of just build it up slowly
01:01:30
um but yeah and a lot of songwriting
01:01:32
sessions I I know my crew now and who I
01:01:35
work with so I know all of their
01:01:37
strengths and what sort of role I need
01:01:39
to play in the room and I'm just a bit
01:01:41
of a chameleon at the moment with
01:01:43
songwriting like with this last project
01:01:46
that I did that'll be coming out next
01:01:47
that there's a guy called Ricky Manning
01:01:49
who I work with who's just the most
01:01:51
insane sad songwriter ever and you just
01:01:55
let him do the lyrics and you let him
01:01:57
you know take charge of that where I
01:02:00
just go into like a quality control sort
01:02:02
of role
01:02:03
um because you know he's so good but
01:02:05
then you know if you're working with
01:02:06
people you've never worked before I will
01:02:08
take complete control yeah of everything
01:02:10
but yeah I mean I've I've worked with
01:02:13
some pretty some pretty crazy
01:02:14
songwriters and it's just yeah you just
01:02:16
gotta know their strengths and sort of
01:02:19
work around them and you get some pretty
01:02:21
incredible results can you drop any
01:02:23
names who have you worked that with that
01:02:24
people would go oh [ __ ]
01:02:26
um uh there's been a few Grammy winners
01:02:28
um uh there's Emily Warren who's written
01:02:32
some of The Chainsmokers songs she's
01:02:33
incredible Chelsea Grimes who's done Dua
01:02:36
Lipa stuff and blackpink and she's
01:02:38
incredible
01:02:39
um man the list goes on really honestly
01:02:41
there's been some amazing ones I work
01:02:43
with Sophie Simmons um who's Gene
01:02:45
Simmons's daughter
01:02:47
um right I was just in LA and she is
01:02:49
incredible
01:02:51
um yeah like there's there's so many
01:02:53
amazing writers that I'm I'm lucky that
01:02:56
[ __ ] with me and I'm very grateful for
01:02:59
that because it took seven years to find
01:03:01
the right crew yeah amazing uh next song
01:03:04
on patience it's called Japan yes uh it
01:03:06
has lyrics like every night I end up on
01:03:08
Instagram looking at pictures of you and
01:03:10
that picture of you in Japan it feels
01:03:12
like it's a song about uh and I could be
01:03:14
wrong about this I don't know you're the
01:03:15
songwriter um unrequited love someone
01:03:18
someone's overseas or you're looking at
01:03:21
her wondering if she's thinking about
01:03:22
you so I'll give you the story though
01:03:25
I'll give you the full story so
01:03:27
um my first girlfriend who I've you know
01:03:29
touched on if he's touched on Jesus
01:03:32
Christ
01:03:33
um
01:03:36
yeah so
01:03:39
um I I've talked about her a little bit
01:03:41
and so basically um we were planning to
01:03:44
go on a holiday to Japan and um
01:03:48
and so Kim Jong-un was sending nukes
01:03:51
over over Japan at the time to to test
01:03:55
like for some [ __ ] nuclear [ __ ] I
01:03:57
don't know and I was kind of freaking
01:03:59
out about it
01:04:00
um and so we didn't end up going to
01:04:03
Japan we just stayed local
01:04:05
um and then we were going to go to Japan
01:04:07
later on that year and then um and then
01:04:10
she ended things with me and I um was at
01:04:14
band practice like a month or so later
01:04:16
and uh went on Instagram and she was in
01:04:21
Japan and there's this photo of her and
01:04:24
you know someone's taking the photo of
01:04:26
her and she's looking all pretty and I'm
01:04:28
all upset about it and so uh I went over
01:04:32
to uh Melbourne that weekend with um
01:04:34
with my mate Mike Waters who I wrote a
01:04:36
lot of the first album with and um I
01:04:39
just told him what was going on and we
01:04:41
we just wrote this song and it was it's
01:04:43
just so hard to write for me at the time
01:04:45
because I was so in love but I knew that
01:04:47
I'd [ __ ] it up so it was this you know
01:04:50
helpless feeling and
01:04:52
um just wanting to you know just knowing
01:04:54
how much you'd [ __ ] it up with someone
01:04:56
you really loved and then seeing them do
01:04:59
what you plan together and knowing
01:05:01
there's going to be a life for them
01:05:03
without you it was it was all pretty
01:05:05
intense at the time it was a long time
01:05:06
ago now yes I suppose this party that
01:05:08
feels like you should have been taking
01:05:09
the photo exactly yeah yeah and um yeah
01:05:13
it was I love the song it's it's a it's
01:05:16
a sad song and it's you know it is yeah
01:05:18
unrequited love and everything but it's
01:05:21
it was a very important song I think
01:05:22
just for me as a man and I think it
01:05:24
would have been a shame if I didn't put
01:05:27
it on there but um yeah yeah it's
01:05:29
another very real one I feel like
01:05:31
they're all real
01:05:32
they really are as I said earlier it's
01:05:34
like reading your diary or your journal
01:05:36
or something
01:05:37
um so that's your very first girlfriend
01:05:39
the one that has nothing to do with you
01:05:40
anymore yes right you're not friends on
01:05:43
Instagram she's blocked you so you can
01:05:45
yeah yeah yeah yeah so you can't see
01:05:48
them
01:05:54
I'm very well blocked that is have you
01:05:57
have you talked to your therapist about
01:05:59
that like do you need to write her a
01:06:00
letter or oh yeah
01:06:02
we I think we just we just leave yeah
01:06:06
okay yeah okay yeah but no she's a
01:06:08
lovely girl she's a lovely girl you're
01:06:10
not still beating yourself up about you
01:06:12
you need to forgive yourself right oh
01:06:13
I've forgiven myself a long time ago
01:06:15
yeah but um
01:06:17
took a while yeah okay next track Fade
01:06:21
to Black
01:06:22
um lyrics if the mirror is a stranger
01:06:24
and you're sinking like a ship in the
01:06:26
sea well maybe soon or maybe later
01:06:28
you'll be exactly where you're supposed
01:06:29
to be
01:06:31
oh it's
01:06:34
it's again another important one to me
01:06:35
is uh
01:06:37
I talked about Ricky earlier this is the
01:06:39
first song we wrote together and we just
01:06:42
we both started this weird how
01:06:45
songwriters were just so over emotional
01:06:47
as overshi everything I've just met
01:06:49
Ricky and we're good friends now but
01:06:51
we're just basically sit in a room and
01:06:53
I'm like
01:06:54
uh I just made this dude no I don't
01:06:57
spend enough time with my mom and then
01:07:00
he's like bro like neither I haven't
01:07:01
seen my mom in like two years and then
01:07:04
so like oh I know what song we're
01:07:06
writing and so we basically we just we
01:07:09
we head off on on the fact that we we
01:07:12
both really missed our mums and it sort
01:07:14
of molded into this song about how short
01:07:17
life is you know because Ricky felt like
01:07:20
he'd seen his mum yesterday but it had
01:07:21
been two years and then um you know I
01:07:25
I've my mum lives down in in Bannockburn
01:07:28
so I barely get to see her and
01:07:31
um you know
01:07:32
click your fingers and covered three
01:07:35
years has gone your mum's three years
01:07:37
old and she's been sick and all of this
01:07:39
it just really hit home to me that life
01:07:42
is is so precious and and so short that
01:07:45
it fades to Black just
01:07:47
just like that so it was yeah I wanted
01:07:50
to just have like a an acknowledgment of
01:07:52
of my existential
01:07:55
dread I guess
01:07:57
I think um I think every every person
01:08:01
has that guilt about not doing enough or
01:08:03
not seeing their appearance enough yeah
01:08:05
you know what I mean yeah like you talk
01:08:07
about yourself in rookie I feel exactly
01:08:09
the same way yeah it's like yeah yeah
01:08:11
yeah I feel like most people yeah it's a
01:08:13
very relatable song yeah um are you so
01:08:16
your relationship's good with your
01:08:17
parents now because uh you know your
01:08:19
your mum's decision which came from a
01:08:22
good place really [ __ ] you up at um a
01:08:24
key time in your life like when you're
01:08:26
at school
01:08:27
um has she apologized for that oh yeah
01:08:30
me and my me and my parents have never
01:08:32
been better which is which is amazing
01:08:33
you know they've been through so much
01:08:35
with their own Journeys and their health
01:08:38
and and just their lives the last you
01:08:41
know since since we sell to rekindled
01:08:43
our relationship that I've got you know
01:08:46
nothing but just love and admiration for
01:08:48
them and you just get to a point in life
01:08:50
where you just you just realize that all
01:08:52
the [ __ ] that you were holding is so
01:08:55
stupid you know like when my mum told me
01:08:59
that she was sick it was it was almost
01:09:01
like a light immediately just went off
01:09:03
of like what the [ __ ] have I been being
01:09:07
salty about it you know like if if my
01:09:10
mum were to to be gone like I would I
01:09:12
would be completely regretful and
01:09:15
devastated for the rest of my life so
01:09:17
yeah it's um no it's never been better
01:09:20
and it you know it was more honestly
01:09:23
challenging with me and my old man like
01:09:25
me and my I'm my mom always had a soft
01:09:28
spot for me no matter how [ __ ] things
01:09:30
were like all mothers probably do yeah
01:09:33
but you know it's it's been really nice
01:09:34
to to get to know my old man like a on a
01:09:38
man-to-man level the last few years
01:09:39
which I never really had I always sort
01:09:41
of despised them growing up for for you
01:09:44
know immature and and young person
01:09:46
reasons but it's it's [ __ ] awesome to
01:09:49
you know he was down at the gig on
01:09:50
Saturday and I got to sit next to him
01:09:52
and give him a hug and you know get him
01:09:55
to see me rock estate do your thing yeah
01:09:57
why did you despise him growing up uh I
01:10:00
I think I was just a very
01:10:03
I was a very
01:10:06
how do I put a
01:10:08
I was a private school kid you know what
01:10:10
I mean I I didn't have my head screwed
01:10:13
on the right way I didn't have a right I
01:10:15
think I had too much expectation of the
01:10:18
world
01:10:19
um and expected [ __ ] to be given to me
01:10:22
when in this world you yeah nothing
01:10:24
comes for free yeah absolutely nothing
01:10:26
and I think that's what I learned from
01:10:27
the most at the end of the day is is
01:10:29
that I just had to learn it in sort of
01:10:32
the reverse Way by being a little
01:10:34
[ __ ] Auckland wanker
01:10:37
okay next track we'll talk about your
01:10:39
parents more there's a song coming up
01:10:41
called clouds uh where they they get a
01:10:43
shout out but the next track on the
01:10:45
album those were the days it felt like
01:10:47
we were lost but we were working it out
01:10:49
those were the days would be nothing
01:10:50
about no nothing without is this a love
01:10:52
song when you're falling in love again
01:10:54
no this one this one was uh
01:10:58
this was about my last girlfriend
01:11:00
um and you know again like I alluded to
01:11:04
earlier like with any breakup you know
01:11:06
there's personal things between you two
01:11:08
that you you'll like disagree on or you
01:11:11
felt your hard done by or whatever and
01:11:13
you know I could have ridden a thousand
01:11:15
songs about you know what went wrong or
01:11:19
um or you know me trying to Taylor Swift
01:11:22
her or [ __ ] on her or whatever but I I
01:11:25
felt like I didn't want to have like
01:11:27
that on my album you know I didn't want
01:11:29
to have like negativity and like even if
01:11:32
it wasn't all positive at the end like I
01:11:34
just wanted to have a song where it was
01:11:37
you know like not many people in my life
01:11:39
will give this person love but like I
01:11:42
feel like it's my duty to just it was
01:11:45
just like a little tribute to that that
01:11:46
part of my life and you know like oh
01:11:49
there's you know lyrics about laying
01:11:51
down by the couch and like you know we
01:11:53
always used to do that yeah by the fire
01:11:54
yeah with a dog and [ __ ] like that and
01:11:57
you know it's like stuff like that is
01:11:59
you know even though you know I've I've
01:12:01
well moved past that it's it's still
01:12:03
like a special thing to me and I didn't
01:12:05
want to just like [ __ ] on her and just
01:12:07
because I I could you know yeah so yeah
01:12:10
I I just thought it would be nice to be
01:12:12
nice and has has she heard it does she
01:12:15
know it's about it yeah I'm sure she has
01:12:18
um and I I don't I haven't talked to her
01:12:20
in a year but it's it's all love I'm
01:12:23
sure she knows it's about her well now
01:12:25
she does
01:12:27
how do you how do you have a song that's
01:12:29
written about you were you the you're
01:12:30
the Muse or the subject or whatever you
01:12:32
call it and like do you not you don't
01:12:35
tell let these people know you don't
01:12:36
give them a message saying hey no it
01:12:39
depends it depends like there's been
01:12:42
there's been times where I've been like
01:12:43
you know working on a girl if you will
01:12:46
and I've written a song and I'm trying
01:12:47
to get myself in the good books but I I
01:12:50
think like definitely like the the
01:12:53
thereafters I I just
01:12:56
yeah I leave it yeah yeah it's more it's
01:12:59
more for me is anyone ever that you've
01:13:01
written a song but ever reached out to
01:13:02
you afterwards and said hey I heard that
01:13:04
song I appreciate it or I forgive you or
01:13:07
no no no no no I mean as much as I would
01:13:10
have loved those moments to happen that
01:13:11
they definitely haven't but I funnily
01:13:14
enough I've had
01:13:15
so I've heard so many [ __ ] stories
01:13:19
about girls claiming Sunday morning is
01:13:21
about them and it is there's been a lot
01:13:24
of Saturday night girls for Mitch James
01:13:26
yeah they're all that I'm I'm serious
01:13:28
like there's been about like five or six
01:13:30
like ran random people that I've never
01:13:33
met that have claimed that this song is
01:13:35
about them
01:13:36
and the truth be told it's not even
01:13:39
really about anyone it's just we we I
01:13:43
was in a songwriting session and we just
01:13:45
kind of went on this Vibe which is like
01:13:47
one of the only real songs of mine
01:13:49
that's not actually about a real story
01:13:51
but there's plenty of girls that are
01:13:54
claiming it unbelievable yeah
01:13:56
um okay the next song is called Cloud
01:13:58
it's um it's a dark song but it's
01:14:00
another one that's very happy sounding
01:14:02
um some of the lyrics mum and dad are
01:14:03
sick the cancer got them both my
01:14:06
sister's slipping in and out it's hard
01:14:08
to keep her close
01:14:10
um so you so your parents both had
01:14:11
cancer they're both all right now though
01:14:13
yeah I mean uh they uh it's not really
01:14:18
my place to say they kind of like got
01:14:20
all they've been a bit upset about how
01:14:22
I've been open about in the past but I
01:14:25
mean they they uh I think I think
01:14:28
they're going okay at the moment they
01:14:29
they don't share too much and
01:14:32
um but yeah okay we don't have to talk
01:14:34
about that but they do you like a song
01:14:36
like that where you mention it do you do
01:14:39
they know or do they hear it when it
01:14:41
comes out no I didn't I didn't I didn't
01:14:43
really talk to um them about it because
01:14:45
I was scared I was gonna get a serving
01:14:48
um oh yeah the song's really good and I
01:14:50
don't want to take it off the album so
01:14:51
what do they say are they mad about it
01:14:53
when they hear us or what no we haven't
01:14:55
really talked about it I think they
01:14:56
understand that it's just part of my art
01:14:58
and part of what I have to do to express
01:15:00
myself and I think they've come a long
01:15:02
way with that because you know it's an
01:15:04
adjustment for them to like I've been
01:15:06
click baited about my parents and [ __ ]
01:15:08
before and
01:15:10
um it really [ __ ] me off to a deep
01:15:12
core level and you know having to like
01:15:14
call them and explain this it's not I
01:15:16
was trying to say and blah blah blah um
01:15:17
but you know that I think they're sort
01:15:19
of just learning on the job too and it's
01:15:22
um it's it's novel for for everyone you
01:15:24
know it's uh yeah it's it's certainly
01:15:27
not every day that this happens so we're
01:15:30
all kind of just learning on the job oh
01:15:32
100 100 it's a surreal situation to be
01:15:35
in and when you suddenly you realize
01:15:37
that oh okay everything that you read
01:15:38
about is not necessarily true and yeah
01:15:41
yeah it's tough um there's another line
01:15:43
in Cloud I've been getting faded since
01:15:44
the day I turned 11 what's faded like
01:15:46
wasted no um what's faded faded well
01:15:49
faded can have many minis for me and my
01:15:51
friends it's like getting high like um
01:15:53
have you not have you been getting faded
01:15:56
since 11 you smoke weed at 11.
01:15:59
this is nearly sound bad
01:16:02
but tender tendon rhyme as well all
01:16:06
right yeah so it's
01:16:08
also oh my God again
01:16:12
with who so I the first of all so the
01:16:17
first time I got drunk was I I was in
01:16:20
New Years when I was 10.
01:16:22
and um yeah that's that's shocking it's
01:16:27
bad yeah yeah
01:16:28
um and then well to be honest like me
01:16:31
and my mates were
01:16:32
we were we were drinking most weekends
01:16:34
from when we were 13. it's not like
01:16:36
something I'd obviously [ __ ] when I have
01:16:38
kids I'll definitely be
01:16:40
on to that but you know I've been a I've
01:16:43
been a little rascal for a long time
01:16:45
yeah yes I've always been a been a weed
01:16:49
smoker always been a bit of a drinker
01:16:52
but you know the drinking now is
01:16:55
nowhere near what it used to be it's
01:16:57
just like a you know when we're on we're
01:16:59
on sort of thing but it's um yeah like I
01:17:02
think that song is basically it's kind
01:17:05
of just like
01:17:06
uh in a way it's like stuck in denial
01:17:08
and saying like you know you might think
01:17:10
that this life is perfect it's it's it's
01:17:12
far from it
01:17:14
um and you know so it's essentially the
01:17:17
song is saying like sometimes I just
01:17:18
can't be [ __ ] being alive and dealing
01:17:20
with all the stress that that comes with
01:17:22
it sometimes I just want to be a cloud
01:17:23
and float up there and you know just
01:17:26
just [ __ ] relax for a bit
01:17:29
um there was it was one that I was
01:17:30
actually very
01:17:31
very iffy to put on the album because I
01:17:34
just felt like [ __ ] like I know it was
01:17:36
such a personal song yeah I was like I
01:17:38
know I do personal [ __ ] but this is like
01:17:40
kind of by far the most personal like
01:17:43
you know I open the song by saying mum
01:17:45
and dad are sick cancer got them both my
01:17:47
sister's slipping in and out it's hard
01:17:48
to keep her close you want a girlfriend
01:17:50
I don't know if I could call it out she
01:17:52
won't call me back yeah and then I talk
01:17:54
about my friend who who killed himself
01:17:55
and and all of that it's it's a pretty
01:17:58
intense song yeah if anyone wants to
01:18:01
look look it up um you can pause the
01:18:02
podcast and it's called Cloud yeah since
01:18:04
my homie went to heaven I've been in a
01:18:06
Great Depression looking back at every
01:18:07
message what was that that wasn't a
01:18:09
suicide wasn't it yeah it was yeah yeah
01:18:11
I'm sorry how old uh I think tea was uh
01:18:15
28 at the time 28 29 maybe
01:18:19
um but yeah no I was it was it was very
01:18:21
sad I've got his initials tattooed on me
01:18:24
and he's always always close to me but
01:18:26
it's um yeah you know it's like I said
01:18:29
you know it's just been so much uh
01:18:30
behind the scenes uh consistent
01:18:33
challenges personal life career
01:18:37
that you know I've popped up in in the
01:18:40
last four years and I feel like you know
01:18:42
it's got to be my duty to to be honest
01:18:44
about it and sing about it put some
01:18:46
light on my issues so hopefully you know
01:18:48
it's a bit easier for other people to
01:18:49
deal with theirs and think that you know
01:18:51
they're not just gonna listen to my
01:18:53
music and think like I'm some uh
01:18:55
detached [ __ ] Rich dude who's in you
01:18:59
know the Rolex store all day laughing at
01:19:01
all the peasants listening to his music
01:19:03
yeah it's yeah that's yeah I think I
01:19:06
just really wanted to shine a light on
01:19:07
on the fact that man it's odd for
01:19:10
everyone out here it is it is but that's
01:19:13
on cloud ends with um staring at the
01:19:15
bright blue skies which I feel like is a
01:19:17
nod to one of your older songs which is
01:19:19
great staring at the bright blue skies I
01:19:22
got a brand new lease on life can
01:19:23
finally fall asleep at night I'll be
01:19:25
okay I'll be fine so it's kind of like a
01:19:26
happy ending yeah I think
01:19:29
that's like that um
01:19:33
septum whatever fate you have and
01:19:35
treating it with as a positive
01:19:36
experiences I think that's probably the
01:19:39
main theme that I that's been drilled
01:19:41
Into Me by the universe the last four
01:19:43
years it's like it's like you know when
01:19:46
are you gonna pick this up we keep
01:19:47
[ __ ] throwing [ __ ] at you like you
01:19:50
either yeah it's I don't think there's a
01:19:51
I'm paraphrasing here but there's like a
01:19:53
great stoic quote that says you know
01:19:55
basically the only thing you can control
01:19:57
in any situation is your attitude
01:20:00
towards it and that's what I'm just
01:20:02
trying to learn it's I'm not preaching
01:20:04
like I've mastered it but it's
01:20:06
definitely something that keeps popping
01:20:08
up and that I have to keep trying oh
01:20:09
yeah this is an amazing book too called
01:20:11
man search for meaning by a guy called
01:20:13
Victor Frankel uh said in the constant
01:20:15
one of the concentration camps of the
01:20:16
second world war and that's the that's
01:20:18
the main sort of three door message in
01:20:19
that one as well yeah bloody good yeah
01:20:21
for sure
01:20:23
um second to last track home is lonely
01:20:26
um I feel like this is and I could be
01:20:28
again completely wrong this is about
01:20:29
friends turning on you because they're
01:20:30
jealous of your success yeah yeah
01:20:34
um man this is a [ __ ] Deep album
01:20:35
isn't it no it's good though I feel like
01:20:38
I'm like a lot of people probably just
01:20:39
listen to the songs and not really pay
01:20:40
attention to the lyrics but when you
01:20:42
when you deep dive into it there's a
01:20:43
there's a lot going you're sharing a lot
01:20:45
uh it [ __ ] kills me to say it I had
01:20:48
to lose you to change me I feel so lost
01:20:51
and I hate it I hate to lose you to
01:20:53
change me yeah it's well at the story
01:20:56
behind this is I had
01:20:59
um you know I had like four really close
01:21:01
mates growing up and um and basically uh
01:21:06
you know two of them I'm I'm still very
01:21:09
close with
01:21:10
um one of them where we're very
01:21:12
different people and we just hang out
01:21:13
every now and then but we're very close
01:21:15
and the others like my best mate and um
01:21:17
the other two basically you know we we
01:21:20
will ride or die and we we're you know
01:21:23
every day after school and you know get
01:21:25
in the car you know by 50 smoke some
01:21:28
weed chill out and sort of forget the
01:21:30
rest of our problems of the world and
01:21:31
we'll you know a little Band of Brothers
01:21:33
and then um
01:21:35
uh basically
01:21:37
um when when I got uh one of the stories
01:21:40
I can't tell because I'll probably get
01:21:42
arrested but but um so one of my friends
01:21:46
uh the story that I won't get into too
01:21:49
much basically uh I had some stuff that
01:21:52
I was uh going to
01:21:55
pass on to other people which he uh
01:21:57
stole
01:21:59
um and decided to do which which this
01:22:01
song is mostly about is um
01:22:04
uh you know my
01:22:06
he was trying to get with My First
01:22:08
Girlfriend by telling her that I'd been
01:22:10
cheating on her
01:22:12
um and basically was talking a bunch of
01:22:15
[ __ ] about me while I was away chasing
01:22:17
my dreams
01:22:18
um then I forgave him and then he um he
01:22:21
tried to do the same thing to my
01:22:23
girlfriend again
01:22:24
um and basically you know the my two of
01:22:28
my best friends who I had grown up with
01:22:30
had just completely betrayed me
01:22:33
um and you know thrown me under the bus
01:22:35
and you know insinuating that I'd you
01:22:38
know turn into a wanker and changed and
01:22:41
and left them when all I needed was sort
01:22:44
of you know some friends to confide in
01:22:46
and and you know hear me out for how
01:22:48
much my life is changing and and how
01:22:50
hectic it's been and but instead you
01:22:52
know that um they got jealous and and
01:22:55
went the other way and sort of acted
01:22:57
immaturely and out of pocket
01:23:00
um and it just uh yeah it took me years
01:23:03
and years to write the song write the
01:23:05
song about it um because in my mind it
01:23:07
was just like well [ __ ] them you know
01:23:10
like uh so I didn't really give it much
01:23:12
thought and
01:23:13
um until yeah we we wrote this song
01:23:16
about yeah it would have been about a
01:23:18
year ago now and it just it just felt
01:23:21
like cathartic because you know I'd
01:23:23
moved on and I was ready to just
01:23:26
you know leave this in the past but I
01:23:28
knew that so many people would be able
01:23:29
to relate to you know as you as you
01:23:32
charge on to the next phase of your life
01:23:34
there's gonna be
01:23:35
there's going to be collateral damage
01:23:37
and there's going to be people that have
01:23:39
to be left behind and you can't take
01:23:41
everyone with you because their
01:23:43
evolution is going to go at a different
01:23:45
pace and my dream was to you know again
01:23:48
like we were watching Wiz Khalifa videos
01:23:49
all the way growing up my dream was to
01:23:52
take the take these boys with me
01:23:54
wherever I went and you know roll like
01:23:55
Entourage [ __ ] yeah yeah
01:23:58
exactly and um you know it wasn't it
01:24:01
wasn't meant to be and I've pieced it
01:24:03
with the um with uh with one of the
01:24:06
dudes and we're we're friends again but
01:24:08
um you know the dude who was trying to
01:24:10
get with my girlfriend and stuff and uh
01:24:13
telling everyone I I've [ __ ] changed
01:24:16
without getting into too much detail
01:24:18
he's uh he's on the uh the punch on site
01:24:21
list
01:24:22
really wow oh no he's not right oh you
01:24:26
know what I mean it just dear to you
01:24:28
though like there's nothing there yeah
01:24:30
nothing yeah yeah and that that happens
01:24:32
I feel like there's um you know
01:24:34
everyone's changing all the time and uh
01:24:36
you take some people with you and then
01:24:38
some people your life is just going in a
01:24:40
different path or different Destiny and
01:24:42
and it happens and it's it's it's weird
01:24:44
I think in your teens or 20s but as you
01:24:45
get older you realize it's just um part
01:24:47
of the even flow of life exactly yeah I
01:24:49
think I'm as I get on I'm starting to
01:24:51
understand that a bit more is that yeah
01:24:53
everyone's just on their different
01:24:54
journey and it's um yeah yeah I'm I'm
01:24:58
quite happy with with where I'm at with
01:25:00
with friends and family at the moment
01:25:02
and I I feel like you know the smaller
01:25:04
the circle almost the better really and
01:25:07
you can really trust those people then
01:25:09
that's been massive for me over the last
01:25:11
few years you know there's a lot of
01:25:13
people that try to be a new friend and
01:25:15
um I'm not much of a believer in that
01:25:18
unless you can really show and back it
01:25:20
up yeah yeah there's a quote I saw that
01:25:22
I really like it says um people come
01:25:24
into your life for a reason a season or
01:25:25
a lifetime so it's family's lifetime
01:25:27
yeah and then maybe this guy that um
01:25:29
that's on your punch on site list
01:25:31
there's a reason for that maybe you've
01:25:33
got a valuable listen out of it well
01:25:35
yeah I am where I am today because of a
01:25:37
lot of that stuff and yeah I wouldn't
01:25:39
rather be anywhere else and you know of
01:25:41
course you'd love to be playing Wembley
01:25:43
Stadium but I'm a big believer you were
01:25:45
exactly where you meant to be so yeah
01:25:47
there's a lot of a lot of exciting
01:25:49
challenges coming up and I'm excited for
01:25:52
it and but yeah I mean in terms of this
01:25:54
song I just I just felt like it was
01:25:56
something that needed to be said and you
01:25:59
know I I had to lose you to change me as
01:26:02
a very sort of powerful statement that
01:26:05
can be applied in a lot of people's
01:26:07
lives you know again it's that Amor Fati
01:26:10
thing you know when when you gotta
01:26:12
approach everything that comes across
01:26:14
your plate and view it with positive
01:26:16
eyes so yeah it's a a tough one a very
01:26:19
emotional one but yeah glad that it's
01:26:23
out in the world and I don't have to
01:26:24
deal with that [ __ ] anymore
01:26:26
and the last song on the album Patience
01:26:29
Stone Cold Sober this is another one
01:26:30
written with um much who Walters From
01:26:32
Success yeah and you wrote it real quick
01:26:34
like 15 minutes 20 minutes yeah there is
01:26:37
one more of the song on the album that's
01:26:39
there yeah bullet holes but um but oh
01:26:42
yeah oh there is too yeah yeah yeah you
01:26:44
mean yeah we'll get to okay bullet holes
01:26:46
here yeah so Stone Cold Sober though is
01:26:49
um yeah we were in LA and um
01:26:51
we're actually writing another song and
01:26:54
um
01:26:55
we uh we had a little midday doobie
01:26:58
break and we we thought you know we'll
01:27:01
just switch up The Vibes a little bit
01:27:02
and and much you came back in and just
01:27:05
started um multi-strumming these chords
01:27:07
and it just sounded [ __ ] beautiful
01:27:10
and
01:27:11
um he started humming and he says
01:27:15
leave Clover and I was like whoa bro
01:27:19
hold the [ __ ] phone like what are you
01:27:21
doing there bro
01:27:23
um and so we just he just kept playing
01:27:25
these chords and we just eked it out in
01:27:29
20 minutes and it just felt really right
01:27:30
and really special to me at the time and
01:27:32
yeah it was Machu is incredibly talented
01:27:36
he he really is he's
01:27:38
like when it comes to Raw Talent and
01:27:41
like when I write songs I really have to
01:27:43
[ __ ] slave for them but Martin is
01:27:46
just his gift today and yeah we got that
01:27:49
done in in 20 minutes and yeah it's
01:27:52
still probably one of my favorites yeah
01:27:54
what's it about there's a lyric I feel I
01:27:56
feel like in a past life you and I had
01:27:58
something golden yeah I think I have a
01:28:00
song about a girl yeah it is yeah I I
01:28:03
think if I'm honest that that song was
01:28:05
inspired by my uh the first girl
01:28:08
really yeah yeah
01:28:12
you see nothing we can do with that
01:28:13
relationship no she's long gone
01:28:17
I'm all good I'm I'm a happy man right
01:28:19
now Don right but you see you just sort
01:28:22
of use her as do you just like like draw
01:28:24
energy from that relationship and use
01:28:26
her as like a muse even though you know
01:28:28
there's nothing there or you know you
01:28:29
can never be with her I
01:28:31
I think it's like
01:28:35
changed in terms of my mentality like
01:28:38
when that ended it was the biggest
01:28:40
Catalyst for change that I've ever had
01:28:42
in my life I was like [ __ ] I need to
01:28:44
like become a man I can't I can't keep
01:28:47
drinking three or four times a week and
01:28:50
going out and partying and like getting
01:28:52
with girls and being a [ __ ] [ __ ]
01:28:54
boyfriend like I can't do that so every
01:28:58
time I think about that moment it's more
01:29:01
like the challenge and the inspiration
01:29:03
to be the best version of myself because
01:29:05
I slept into the worst version of myself
01:29:07
and from that moment I had to turn it
01:29:09
around and go [ __ ] like the onus is on
01:29:12
You No One's Gonna Save you no special
01:29:14
rules apply to you you're getting fat
01:29:19
um yeah you know like I just had to turn
01:29:21
it around and so I think it's not it's
01:29:23
not this it's although like there's
01:29:25
always love for that person it's more
01:29:27
actually just what the situation
01:29:28
represents to me and and how the person
01:29:31
that she fell in love with initially
01:29:33
yeah and then I and and that obviously
01:29:35
slipped away it's not that I'm trying to
01:29:37
get back to that person it's just like
01:29:39
an inspiration of trying to be like man
01:29:42
I always need to be pushing every single
01:29:44
day to be better and that's again that's
01:29:46
why like running is so important to me
01:29:48
as well to show up every day and just
01:29:50
try and get that little bit better than
01:29:52
yesterday it's yeah it sort of just
01:29:54
applies in a general sense yeah with her
01:29:57
as
01:29:57
yeah I guess it still shows through a
01:30:00
lot of the music even though it's been
01:30:01
years and and the last time bullet holes
01:30:04
is that about her as well yeah I still
01:30:07
think about it all the time you never
01:30:08
really left my mind
01:30:11
it's been years and I just wish you'd
01:30:14
call [ __ ] maybe I just lied to you
01:30:16
through my teeth now yeah I I do
01:30:20
remember that day when I wrote that song
01:30:21
though I um I was I was I was feeling
01:30:25
very lonely
01:30:26
um and uh 660 were playing and I was on
01:30:29
that tour but I wasn't on that gig and I
01:30:31
wanted to be on that gig that day so I
01:30:33
just sat down on the edge of my bed and
01:30:35
just just wrote a song and it was
01:30:37
probably just yeah it was another quick
01:30:38
one it was about an hour and wow yeah
01:30:41
it's the only song on the album I wrote
01:30:43
totally by myself which um I don't know
01:30:46
if people listening you know you'd
01:30:49
actually be surprised to find that it's
01:30:51
probably only like 0.5 of the songs that
01:30:53
ever get released they're written by one
01:30:55
person and so as a songwriter I also
01:30:57
felt like it was a
01:30:58
a Judy of mine to like
01:31:01
show yeah I can [ __ ] write a good
01:31:03
song just by myself and just prove that
01:31:04
to myself but but also you know I
01:31:07
started the album with motions and
01:31:09
saying I'm lost I'm going through the
01:31:10
motions and I don't know what to do but
01:31:13
the last song of bullet holes is this
01:31:15
like acceptance of saying well now I've
01:31:18
got to move on like and I think it
01:31:20
summarizes the album perfectly of you
01:31:23
know basically what this album is is
01:31:25
like my last four years that have been a
01:31:27
complete mess and me trying to make
01:31:29
sense of it and so at the start I'm like
01:31:31
[ __ ] I'm lost and by the end I'm saying
01:31:34
like yeah I'm still lost but I've found
01:31:38
a way through it in my mind where I can
01:31:40
I can attack the next thing and leave
01:31:43
all of these stories and leave all of
01:31:44
these emotions and and all of that in
01:31:47
the past and uh what the the next album
01:31:51
looks like is as a complete transition
01:31:53
from that just sort of dark period which
01:31:56
is all a bit of a mumble in my head to
01:31:59
to something a bit more clear and and
01:32:01
look there's a lot of clarity and you
01:32:04
know there's a lot more fun on this on
01:32:05
this next album there's a song called
01:32:07
day for it which is
01:32:09
um you know I'll let you do the math
01:32:11
yeah yeah so it's yeah it was just a
01:32:14
very cathartic period and I'm I'm glad
01:32:16
that it's I'm glad that it's over I'm
01:32:18
glad that you know that's the last
01:32:20
record that I would would be with my old
01:32:23
record label with it and it just feels
01:32:25
like now I've I've got a clear path and
01:32:28
what's starting to clear up it's been
01:32:30
been very muddy and very hard and
01:32:32
[ __ ] frustrating and challenging but
01:32:34
you know I think if I could give one
01:32:37
message out I guess is just that's what
01:32:39
we're talking about before about the
01:32:40
resiliency and the perseverance and just
01:32:43
the that dogged fight to to no matter
01:32:46
what just keep the [ __ ] goal in mind
01:32:49
and no matter how much [ __ ] gets in your
01:32:50
way you just have to keep going and and
01:32:52
I I guess that's where I'm at now is
01:32:54
yeah just um making sure that this next
01:32:58
album and this next chapter is is
01:33:01
representative of me fully and and where
01:33:03
I'm at and no [ __ ] No Labels trying
01:33:06
to dress me up or or make me someone I'm
01:33:09
not and it's it's just been a crazy old
01:33:11
journey and a crazy old game and I got
01:33:13
into it very young I didn't think I was
01:33:16
young you know being 20 21 but in
01:33:17
reality
01:33:18
you know this from being in the game for
01:33:20
for so long as well it's pretty [ __ ]
01:33:22
young the older you get you realize the
01:33:25
less you know yeah and the exciting
01:33:27
thing about life is that continues as
01:33:28
well
01:33:30
um I just turned 50 the other week and I
01:33:32
still realize I Know Jack actually like
01:33:33
a day over 51 I'm a kid [ __ ] get back
01:33:37
it's a great album though mate patience
01:33:40
um it's really good and it's um it is
01:33:42
very very honest so it'll be interesting
01:33:44
to see your perspective in you know 10
01:33:45
15 years from now like whether you're
01:33:47
like super proud of it as a snapshot of
01:33:50
your life as a guy in his mid-20s or if
01:33:52
you'd like embarrassed about it or you
01:33:53
cringe I expect there'll be a
01:33:54
combination of both yeah well I mean
01:33:56
you're always going to cringe a little
01:33:58
bit about [ __ ]
01:33:59
you know it's where you were at at one
01:34:01
point in time when you're not
01:34:03
you're not so there's songs on the first
01:34:05
album I'm like [ __ ] did I even why did I
01:34:08
release that well it but you know it's
01:34:11
all part of the artist's journey and
01:34:13
yeah it's
01:34:15
it's all good I I feel like I'm gonna
01:34:17
it's taken me up until really about this
01:34:20
point which I'm when you think about I'm
01:34:22
like six seven years deep in in the game
01:34:24
which is kind of crazy to think about
01:34:27
um makes me feel [ __ ] old um but it's
01:34:30
yeah it's it's I feel I finally feel at
01:34:32
that place now where I I just have an
01:34:34
understanding of of who I am as a man
01:34:36
firstly and like can separate that from
01:34:39
an artist and and I just know that how
01:34:42
to do it on my terms and that I am going
01:34:44
to do it on my terms so it's exciting
01:34:46
but it's um you know it's it's a very
01:34:48
challenging game and it's certainly not
01:34:51
all [ __ ] uh cocaine and hookers for
01:34:53
sure
01:34:55
well that's the thing even if it's old
01:34:57
cocaine and hook is after a while that
01:34:58
becomes it becomes boring doesn't it
01:35:00
because that certainly does yeah it's
01:35:01
all about balance so certainly does like
01:35:03
I've got sick of cocaine
01:35:07
just can't afford either of them either
01:35:10
all right trust me I cannot
01:35:12
um James I bloody love you and I love
01:35:15
your work and I'm really really proud of
01:35:17
what you've done and it's been great to
01:35:18
sit down with you and uh you're going on
01:35:20
tour soon so uh we're gonna get to hear
01:35:22
these songs live which is a real treat
01:35:24
yeah you know I'm excited it's always
01:35:26
amazing to get back out and play live
01:35:28
and played a headline show of mine
01:35:30
owning three [ __ ] four years coming up
01:35:33
now so
01:35:35
um thank you covered but it's um yeah
01:35:37
I'm really excited to just feel that
01:35:39
energy again and and get out with with
01:35:41
the people who have um you know are the
01:35:43
reason why I get to sit here and talk to
01:35:45
you and instead of you know working in a
01:35:48
normal job so I'm I'm extremely grateful
01:35:50
and just yeah can't wait to feel that
01:35:53
connection again and and just give my
01:35:55
all on stage and yeah lots of new music
01:35:58
coming out which is which is you know
01:36:00
again very honest but in a more sort of
01:36:04
I guess uh I guess you'd call it happier
01:36:06
and more open way but
01:36:09
um yeah it's I think the the artist's
01:36:12
job is to always be as open and as
01:36:14
vulnerable as possible even if that
01:36:16
means it's a little bit ugly so I think
01:36:18
I've Got My Cry album out the way and
01:36:21
next time we got the day for it party oh
01:36:24
yeah it's nice nice well as someone who
01:36:27
um feels like they're quite similar to
01:36:29
you personality wise but with a few more
01:36:30
miles a lot more miles on the clock
01:36:33
um just be kind to yourself okay thank
01:36:35
you brother and likewise likewise you're
01:36:37
a good dude you've got a good heart
01:36:39
um yeah I don't want you I don't want to
01:36:41
feel like you're beating yourself up
01:36:42
about things that you've done no yeah
01:36:44
absolutely it's it's it's it's a fun job
01:36:47
because you get to reflect you know
01:36:49
um then you get to see
01:36:51
um all of the amazing things that you've
01:36:54
worked for out in front of you so I'm
01:36:56
very excited about the future and not
01:36:58
too much dwelling on the past so we're
01:37:00
we're all good you leave that poor X
01:37:02
alone yeah
01:37:15
I love you mate
01:37:18
[Music]
01:37:28
thank you
01:37:30
[Music]
