00:00:00
Sexy Can you can you come outside your
00:00:02
window and and I'm gonna start waving
00:00:03
and you'll see me you want to see me
00:00:05
Zach have two of your Butlers hold you
00:00:08
up on their shoulders I hope this is
00:00:10
being taped and part of the show because
00:00:12
this is great David you're wearing blue
00:00:14
shorts right yeah yeah I saw you did you
00:00:17
see me no I didn't see you where are you
00:00:19
when you look out on the first house The
00:00:21
Pink House look at this house you see
00:00:23
this I heard you I couldn't see you
00:00:25
though yeah
00:00:32
no I'm like to your right if you're
00:00:35
looking out I'm at your right your first
00:00:37
house on the right oh there oh I see you
00:00:40
see anything yeah
00:00:42
I see you I see you guys are like 12
00:00:45
year olds come over afterwards we'll
00:00:47
have a glass okay all right I'm coming
00:00:49
I'm gonna come over afterwards vivac has
00:00:51
a hard stop we should go
00:00:52
[Music]
00:00:53
let your winners
00:00:54
[Music]
00:01:00
we open source it to the fans
00:01:04
[Music]
00:01:08
all right the vague ramaswami is finally
00:01:10
on the program he's an entrepreneur he
00:01:12
graduated Harvard yeah all that kind of
00:01:14
stuff he was an entrepreneur then a
00:01:16
capital allocator I think broadstrokes
00:01:18
everybody knows he's a conservative
00:01:20
running as a republican he's anti-woke
00:01:23
he's pro-life anti-affirmative action
00:01:25
pro-free speech
00:01:27
and he wants Federal
00:01:29
government term limits and uh his fans
00:01:33
are lunatics they've been asking for him
00:01:35
to be on the all-in podcast every day
00:01:37
I've gotten about 300 emails from your
00:01:39
fans welcome to the program
00:01:41
they sound like your fans actually
00:01:42
because I hear it all the time it's like
00:01:44
blaming me for why I have not been on
00:01:46
this program and so you guys this has
00:01:47
been like some sort of idealized
00:01:49
experience for me I'm looking forward to
00:01:51
it okay great so what we try to do here
00:01:54
is have a real conversation try to get
00:01:56
these candidates off their talking
00:01:58
points so this isn't Meet the Press
00:02:00
obviously we want to talk to you like a
00:02:01
human being so the extent that you know
00:02:04
as a politician now you can talk like a
00:02:05
human being the audience and we would
00:02:07
appreciate it meet David sacks tremontia
00:02:10
and David Friedberg all right Vivek why
00:02:12
don't you explain maybe your background
00:02:14
as a capital allocator and as an
00:02:16
entrepreneur and then why you chose to
00:02:18
run for president at this time
00:02:19
yeah sure I mean my parents like many
00:02:23
people you probably also know who've had
00:02:25
similar success stories they came to
00:02:27
this country with almost no money
00:02:28
I went on to actually found successful
00:02:31
companies and so I started my career as
00:02:34
a biotech investor I worked at a hedge
00:02:37
fund in New York when I graduated in
00:02:38
2007. I thought I was going to be a
00:02:41
scientist I studied molecular biology
00:02:43
ended up enjoying my time as an
00:02:46
internship at a hedge fund a lot more
00:02:48
than that so I did that for seven years
00:02:50
three of those years I spent law school
00:02:51
at the same time but then when I
00:02:53
finished law school I had you know I
00:02:55
think felt like my learning curve had
00:02:56
flattened from being a pure capital
00:02:59
allocator
00:03:00
so I stepped down and founded a new kind
00:03:03
of Biotech company that I could actually
00:03:05
you guys might be more interested in it
00:03:07
than most of my political audiences but
00:03:10
the basic premise was give scientists
00:03:12
skin in the game in the projects they
00:03:15
actually work on so if you're a GSK or
00:03:17
advisor or whatever Merc
00:03:20
you discover a drug or you develop it
00:03:22
you don't have personal upside in the
00:03:25
individual drug that you develop you do
00:03:27
have various forms of asymmetric
00:03:29
downside and so people don't take risks
00:03:32
unless they're the same risks that the
00:03:33
other Pharma companies are taking
00:03:34
because if you take the same risk and
00:03:36
fail but everybody else is failing in a
00:03:38
therapeutic category at the same time
00:03:39
you're safe
00:03:41
but if you take a risk that other people
00:03:43
aren't willing to take and you fail
00:03:45
then you experience budget cuts maybe
00:03:47
job security risks social embarrassment
00:03:49
which is a big factor in big Pharma as
00:03:51
well
00:03:52
which in turn created an opportunity
00:03:54
that I took advantage of which was that
00:03:56
there were systematically categories of
00:03:58
drugs that went undeveloped even after
00:04:01
big Pharma had for a long time spent a
00:04:05
lot of money developing those drugs up
00:04:06
to a certain point
00:04:08
so I built a business called royvin
00:04:09
basically in licensed some of those
00:04:12
drugs in their early stages of
00:04:14
development phase one or phase two often
00:04:17
for pennies on the dollar relative to
00:04:19
what had gone into them
00:04:20
often we would have scientists or drug
00:04:22
developers who were passionate about
00:04:24
that very project inside the companies
00:04:27
who would come with those drugs because
00:04:29
they wanted to develop them but the big
00:04:31
Pharma company said that they weren't in
00:04:32
that area anymore
00:04:34
and we built a pipeline of such drugs
00:04:36
the whole plan was some of them would
00:04:38
work some of them wouldn't the successes
00:04:40
would make up for the failures and it's
00:04:43
now a 10 billion dollar public company
00:04:44
and it returned unlike many private
00:04:46
companies uh you know return a billion
00:04:48
dollars plus to shareholders before
00:04:49
going public and uh you know is doing
00:04:53
continues to do well to this day
00:04:55
I led the company as CEO for seven years
00:04:57
five of the drugs I worked on or FDA
00:05:00
approved today
00:05:01
what I'm probably most proud of is is a
00:05:04
drug that sexually biologic that is
00:05:06
life-saving therapy in kids another
00:05:08
one's an approved drug for prostate
00:05:10
cancer but that was my world is the
00:05:12
point very different world
00:05:14
maybe more similar to your guys's world
00:05:16
now than the world I'm in now
00:05:19
something funny happened in 2020 which
00:05:21
was that in my own company there were
00:05:24
demands that I make a statement on
00:05:27
behalf of black lives matter after the
00:05:29
George Floyd it was tragic death in May
00:05:31
of 2020 by June there were demands that
00:05:34
I start making statements on behalf of
00:05:37
BLM and it was a funny time because only
00:05:40
starting that February I had ventured
00:05:42
into actually exercising my voice as a
00:05:44
citizen while being a CEO at my own
00:05:47
Peril criticizing what was then the
00:05:49
still new shiny object of stakeholder
00:05:52
capitalism so I published this piece of
00:05:54
the Wall Street Journal it generated
00:05:55
some waves that February a few months
00:05:57
later in May this George Floyd
00:05:58
controversy comes up
00:06:00
and the long story short I can go into
00:06:01
it if you guys are interested but over
00:06:04
the next six months a series of
00:06:06
escalating events led me to face a
00:06:09
choice the following January of you know
00:06:12
there's three advisors to my company
00:06:13
that stepped down after I wrote a rather
00:06:16
I didn't intend it to be but a rather
00:06:18
controversial piece in the Wall Street
00:06:19
Journal at the time
00:06:21
yeah the premise of the piece was that
00:06:24
it actually was controversial on
00:06:25
numerous counts but the basic premise
00:06:27
was it was the first legal argument
00:06:28
anybody had made that if the government
00:06:31
is pressuring a private actor to do
00:06:33
something that the government couldn't
00:06:35
do directly that that was still State
00:06:37
action
00:06:38
now the subtext is this was in the wake
00:06:40
of January 6th where there was
00:06:42
widespread systematic censorship of you
00:06:44
know political speech in this country at
00:06:46
least I believe there was
00:06:47
and so at the time I made that argument
00:06:49
it was dismissed as a conspiracy theory
00:06:50
on the facts no that's not happening it
00:06:53
was also dismissed as a legal Theory you
00:06:55
know this rube who you know happened to
00:06:58
go to law school forgot his first year
00:06:59
where the First Amendment only applies
00:07:01
to State actors
00:07:03
you know now fast forward three years
00:07:05
two and a half years
00:07:07
we now know those facts were far worse
00:07:09
than even I envisioned at the time and
00:07:11
actually the legal argument that I made
00:07:13
is now popularized by Clarence Thomas
00:07:15
and others that are finding its way into
00:07:16
our jurisprudence but anyway three
00:07:18
advisors to the company found it so
00:07:20
offensive that I would make this
00:07:22
argument in public that within 48 Hours
00:07:24
of that piece they resigned and that was
00:07:26
definitely a post-gen 6 mood and
00:07:29
reaction that I had to then make a
00:07:31
choice right because now this is having
00:07:33
potentially an adverse impact on the
00:07:34
company
00:07:36
I could either all right call it a year
00:07:38
where I experimented with expressing
00:07:40
myself and you know wearing my legal
00:07:42
academic hat and call that a day and
00:07:45
continue with biotech
00:07:47
or legitimately if I didn't want to have
00:07:49
an adverse impact on my company I could
00:07:50
step down and really speak freely
00:07:52
I choose to I chose to step down not in
00:07:55
small part because the company was doing
00:07:57
great you know I had a successor lined
00:07:58
up so there was a fortunate set of
00:08:00
circumstances that happened to be the
00:08:02
right time I just had my first son my
00:08:05
son Karthik was born in February of 2020
00:08:07
he was about to turn a year old
00:08:10
we were the transitional phase of our
00:08:12
life covid you know we were we had a
00:08:14
year away from the office my wife was
00:08:15
filling her Fellowship there was just a
00:08:16
lot going on in her life that it felt
00:08:18
like this was a moment for a life
00:08:21
transition to focus on
00:08:23
there's a lot of people talented people
00:08:25
developing medicines maybe some of them
00:08:27
more talented than me you know rovin's a
00:08:29
successful company did you feel like you
00:08:31
were being bullied into making a
00:08:32
statement about black lives matter by
00:08:34
your own employees and do you what's
00:08:36
your thought generally speaking on
00:08:38
companies being politically active and
00:08:40
companies having a political voice
00:08:41
because it has come up in our industry
00:08:43
over and over again you might know Brian
00:08:45
Armstrong from coinbase said hey we're
00:08:47
here to do crypto nothing else please
00:08:49
don't talk about anything political so
00:08:51
what are your thoughts generally on that
00:08:52
you wrote a whole book on this right I
00:08:54
mean yes I read your book and it speaks
00:08:57
a lot about the distinction between
00:08:59
what the intention is uh in optimizing
00:09:02
for shareholders versus the personal
00:09:04
interests of the executives and those in
00:09:06
charge expressing their personal points
00:09:08
of view through the corporation
00:09:11
um and I think you had some points of
00:09:12
view on where that should all go but was
00:09:14
that in part motivating for you to run
00:09:17
for public office and why president
00:09:18
instead of running for a senate seat or
00:09:21
congressional seat or something else
00:09:23
yeah so it turns out I've written I
00:09:24
wrote three books in the last two years
00:09:26
and two of them are about this topic
00:09:28
okay the first one is woke Inc which was
00:09:30
for a general audience and then there
00:09:31
was a second one called capitalist
00:09:33
punishment which was specifically about
00:09:35
the ESG strand of this in capital
00:09:37
markets and just so people are aware my
00:09:40
general view is that companies should
00:09:42
focus on making products and services
00:09:43
for people who need them without
00:09:45
apologizing for it and yes that's how
00:09:47
you maximize profit for shareholders by
00:09:49
having a worthy Mission and sticking to
00:09:51
it without taking on social missions
00:09:53
that are best carried out by
00:09:55
institutions outside of corporate
00:09:56
America
00:09:58
I so much believe this that even before
00:09:59
I ran for president this actually does
00:10:01
answer your question Davis
00:10:03
I actually thought the way I was going
00:10:04
to have impact based on this I enjoy
00:10:06
being an author but I'm not by Nature
00:10:08
just an academic I like to do things I I
00:10:11
started a company called strive it's an
00:10:13
asset management firm that directly
00:10:16
competes against the likes of BlackRock
00:10:18
and State Street and Vanguard that's
00:10:20
what I thought my next leap was going to
00:10:22
be
00:10:23
strives first fund launched last August
00:10:27
and less than a year in him it's close
00:10:29
to a billion dollars in assets under
00:10:30
management I think it took JP Morgan two
00:10:32
years to get to a billion when they got
00:10:33
into the ETF business that was what my
00:10:36
journey was going to be is within
00:10:37
Corporate America
00:10:38
restore the Unapologetic pursuit of
00:10:41
Excellence over distracting and dilutive
00:10:44
political environmental and social
00:10:46
agendas
00:10:48
but the thing that struck me I think
00:10:49
late last year and last December last
00:10:52
year we had our second son got a new
00:10:54
company off the ground you all know what
00:10:56
that entails you know was very much an
00:10:58
all-in experience doing that
00:11:00
December we had some time to take a step
00:11:02
back and you know my wife and I we
00:11:06
kind of take a moment to ask yourself
00:11:07
why are you doing what you're doing it's
00:11:09
not a conversation you often have or
00:11:12
take time to do but yeah the question of
00:11:14
the why
00:11:16
and it reminded me back of that
00:11:18
experience I had at William you asked me
00:11:19
did I feel bullied
00:11:21
didn't actually feel bullied I think I
00:11:23
could imagine someone in my shoes
00:11:24
feeling that way but I didn't feel like
00:11:26
it was somebody cornering me to do
00:11:29
something I didn't want to do others
00:11:30
have had that experience that wasn't
00:11:31
quite how it felt for me
00:11:33
felt like there's a group of people who
00:11:35
followed me on this mission who look up
00:11:37
to me who were disappointed in me
00:11:39
actually
00:11:40
and I think that was much harder than
00:11:42
feeling like I was being bullied was to
00:11:44
have a group of people who followed me
00:11:45
on this worthy mission of developing
00:11:47
medicines that Pharma companies weren't
00:11:48
that felt proud of that mission that now
00:11:51
felt disappointed in me
00:11:53
and that was much harder to deal with
00:11:55
than the bullying but that also opened
00:11:57
my eyes to the fact that I'm here
00:11:58
stridently fighting against BlackRock
00:12:00
and you know the ESG industrial complex
00:12:02
which is a little bit of a deflection
00:12:04
from the essence of what I actually
00:12:06
think is going on at the real root cause
00:12:08
especially amongst young people in the
00:12:10
country what is that
00:12:11
which is that they and this is what I
00:12:13
saw in my employees
00:12:14
in the experience I went through so that
00:12:16
was formative for me these are good
00:12:17
people these are earnest people many of
00:12:20
whom came it's it mainly is my fault
00:12:22
because the pitch that we made in
00:12:23
recruiting we recruited from Harvard and
00:12:25
MIT and everywhere else big Pharma
00:12:27
companies didn't recruit out of
00:12:28
undergrad we did part of my pitch was
00:12:29
hey you want to go you know to a Quant
00:12:32
hedge fund and turn that pile of cash
00:12:34
into bigger pile of cash or do you want
00:12:35
to actually make medicines that impact
00:12:37
people's lives and do well that way so
00:12:39
that was part of you in my pitch going
00:12:40
in so we select for a certain kind of
00:12:42
person and then they come back and say
00:12:43
they're disappointed me for not adopting
00:12:45
unrelated social agendas
00:12:48
what Donna me is that young people in
00:12:50
this country
00:12:51
I'm a millennial you guys are young
00:12:54
we're hungry for a Cause
00:12:57
right we're so hungry for
00:12:59
purpose and meaning
00:13:03
and identity
00:13:05
and yet we're starving for that at a
00:13:08
time in our history when the things that
00:13:09
used to fill that void and we can
00:13:12
there's a lot of things that can fill
00:13:13
that blank I talked about it today at
00:13:15
this constitution Camp here in New
00:13:16
Hampshire Faith patriotism hard work
00:13:19
family
00:13:20
but I think there's there's some truth
00:13:22
to what Brian Armstrong told his
00:13:23
employees a corporation with a worthy
00:13:25
Mission can help fill that void too and
00:13:27
I think that's one of the roles that
00:13:28
CEOs who feel like they're being bullied
00:13:30
might miss is you you don't have people
00:13:32
who are bullying you you have people who
00:13:33
are lost who are looking to you for
00:13:35
direction and purpose you're saying it
00:13:37
quickly but I think that family and
00:13:39
religion are very very big drivers oh
00:13:42
huge yeah I'm just saying it quickly
00:13:44
because I talk about that all the time
00:13:45
but um but I think the family and faith
00:13:48
is
00:13:49
I mean these are foundational building
00:13:51
blocks they're foundations I think that
00:13:52
when you look statistically at like the
00:13:54
decay in the number of young people who
00:13:57
are religious or the decay in a number
00:13:59
of young people who actually have you
00:14:01
know two parent families all of this
00:14:04
speaks to the fact that the social norms
00:14:06
that gave people purpose
00:14:08
have actually gone but they haven't been
00:14:10
replaced with anything else and I think
00:14:12
that's the vacuum that you're seeing
00:14:14
that many of these young people fall
00:14:15
into and so they're looking for
00:14:18
something to your point and
00:14:20
um the problem with that is not the
00:14:22
causes themselves but the fact that
00:14:24
they're short-lived and then what's left
00:14:26
over is the need for more and more and
00:14:29
more and that escalation I think is very
00:14:31
dangerous if you think about where you
00:14:33
know Society goes to from here yeah I
00:14:35
agree with you on that and that's why I
00:14:36
I have been characterized and Jason
00:14:39
introduced me that way too is anti-woke
00:14:42
I don't actually think of my I don't I
00:14:44
don't like that label because it's it's
00:14:46
not inaccurate I don't like it because
00:14:48
it's false
00:14:50
I think it misses the point where I
00:14:52
think the way we actually combat
00:14:55
fill in your favorite blanket wokism
00:14:57
climatism covetism
00:15:00
fentanyl usage anxiety depression loss
00:15:03
of self-confidence these things are
00:15:04
symptoms of a deeper void of purpose and
00:15:07
meaning and so I don't think you help
00:15:09
the matter much by and I've done some of
00:15:12
this I will admit this right yeah other
00:15:14
people well I mean but the book I don't
00:15:17
have you read the book Jason or not I
00:15:18
haven't yet but I will okay the book is
00:15:20
uh
00:15:21
it was it was titled and written before
00:15:24
the word weapon woke took on its current
00:15:26
political violence yeah I will say that
00:15:28
actually okay many people didn't know
00:15:30
what the word woke was at the time I
00:15:31
titled it was fairly revelatory when you
00:15:33
came out and used that word in your in
00:15:35
your title it was like let me reveal to
00:15:37
you a little bit about what this thing
00:15:39
that I'm calling woke is turning into
00:15:41
which is a more broader kind of
00:15:44
social psychological issue that we're
00:15:47
all grappling with right how it's now
00:15:49
leeched its way into politics it's
00:15:51
leached its way into nonprofits it's
00:15:53
leached its way
00:15:54
into Corporate America
00:15:57
into for-profits into the military into
00:15:59
government Etc obviously since that was
00:16:02
published it has now become this hot
00:16:05
term that has different meaning for
00:16:06
different people and it can be pretty
00:16:08
exciting in terms of
00:16:09
how people react appreciate you saying
00:16:11
that Dave yeah I appreciate you saying
00:16:12
that Dave because my net prescription is
00:16:15
actually we dilute not just wokism I
00:16:17
mean that's just part of the story We
00:16:19
dilute secular religions the rise of
00:16:22
secular religion right and I don't call
00:16:24
them even religions because religion is
00:16:26
withstood the test of time occult has
00:16:28
not but the rise of modern secular cults
00:16:30
we dilute them to irrelevance by filling
00:16:33
that void with an alternative vision and
00:16:36
so you know if one political Camp might
00:16:38
offer race and gender and sexuality and
00:16:41
climate as a prescription for the void I
00:16:45
think where conservatives fall badly
00:16:47
short is by simply being anti those
00:16:50
things without actually offering an
00:16:54
alternative vision of our own and I am
00:16:57
aiming certainly to do that in this case
00:16:59
and gender and these kind of things what
00:17:03
would be your uh you know qualities or
00:17:06
things to focus on
00:17:08
so let's do like a little face off right
00:17:10
individual we're talking about race
00:17:12
gender sexuality climate I pair them up
00:17:15
against
00:17:16
individual family Nation God okay
00:17:20
and I think that there's a substantive
00:17:21
Vision here I think America happened to
00:17:23
have been founded on the latter Vision
00:17:24
not the former so if I'm running for U.S
00:17:26
president I think that that already
00:17:27
tilts the scales in favor of this Vision
00:17:29
because it so happens as a historical
00:17:31
matter America was grounded on you know
00:17:34
some people will contest this but I
00:17:35
think on that Vision rather than the
00:17:37
genetic and climate-based one but I
00:17:40
think that that's something where the
00:17:41
Republican party and conservatives have
00:17:42
fallen short and that's part of what to
00:17:44
your question Jason pulled me into this
00:17:45
is I saw the emergence of what was
00:17:48
likely to be a biographical brawl
00:17:50
between two guys who were the you know
00:17:52
Front Runners or whatever
00:17:54
you know that's not productive but I
00:17:55
think more importantly than a
00:17:56
biographical brawl even the question
00:17:58
about Who We Are
00:18:00
I think the Republican party and the
00:18:02
conservative movement was in many ways
00:18:03
defining itself in opposition to that
00:18:05
alternative vision of identity where
00:18:07
what I want to do what I'm striving to
00:18:08
do and I hope we're doing
00:18:10
is actually offering an affirmative
00:18:12
vision of our own that go to the heart
00:18:14
of what it means to be an American and
00:18:17
you know I don't think that national
00:18:19
identity alone is going to fill that
00:18:20
vacuum fully but I think it makes a
00:18:23
pretty good darn stride forward and I
00:18:25
think those roles for pastors and others
00:18:27
that's beyond my pay grade and so I'm
00:18:29
not I'm not purporting to do that in
00:18:31
this campaign I speak to it but that's
00:18:33
that's going to be the role of people in
00:18:35
a higher calling than being U.S
00:18:37
president but I think the next U.S
00:18:38
president can play a meaningful role in
00:18:41
filling that vacuum at least when it
00:18:43
comes to national identity and so that's
00:18:45
really what this campaign is about it's
00:18:46
not
00:18:47
it's not anti-woke it is
00:18:49
unapologetically nationalist in a
00:18:51
certain sense of that word
00:18:53
Nationalist and sense of embracing those
00:18:55
ideals
00:18:57
that set this nation into motion that
00:18:58
still unite us across those genetically
00:19:01
inherited attributes that we've
00:19:02
otherwise celebrated over the last 10
00:19:04
years safe to say you believe in
00:19:06
American exceptionalism and that's
00:19:07
that's your platform that is my platform
00:19:10
the exceptionalism of the ideals that
00:19:13
set this country into motion absolutely
00:19:15
so Vivek let me ask a question around
00:19:18
where we are in the cycle of the
00:19:21
American experiment
00:19:23
where
00:19:24
we have obviously
00:19:26
allowed the throttle to be full forward
00:19:29
and as a result we've seen extraordinary
00:19:31
progress emerge from the entrepreneurial
00:19:33
talents and the drive of the people of
00:19:35
this country for the past 250 years and
00:19:38
it's really extraordinary in a
00:19:39
transformed human civilization
00:19:41
We Now find ourselves particularly over
00:19:44
the past 50 years as this problem has
00:19:46
gotten worse with increasing disparity
00:19:48
between the Haves and the have-nots or
00:19:51
those who believe they they have not
00:19:53
which is nearly everyone everyone now
00:19:56
has some point of view that they have
00:19:57
not got something and they see other
00:19:59
people that do have something that they
00:20:00
do not
00:20:02
and this inequality and this perception
00:20:04
of inequality both with respect to
00:20:05
Absolute amounts of capital income
00:20:07
earnings and these perception issues
00:20:10
have now driven a populist movement in
00:20:12
this country that we have seen
00:20:14
historically many times in the past
00:20:16
different countries that ultimately turn
00:20:19
into either socialist Nations
00:20:23
or fascist nations in all cases some
00:20:25
sort of autocratic regime seems to have
00:20:27
emerged because of this populist
00:20:30
movement that we're now seeing not just
00:20:31
in the US but across the West
00:20:34
do you feel like we're at that moment in
00:20:36
the U.S and one of the manifestations of
00:20:38
that I'll say is government spending
00:20:41
because everyone demands more from their
00:20:42
government than the government steps up
00:20:44
and the elected officials that they
00:20:45
elect step up and spend more and at
00:20:47
layers and layers and layers and we now
00:20:49
have a 33 trillion dollar debt load and
00:20:52
we have a one and a half trillion dollar
00:20:53
annual deficit and by many projections
00:20:55
Social Security will be bankrupt in
00:20:57
anywhere from 10 to 15 years uh 10 to 20
00:21:00
years whatever numbers you want to use
00:21:02
the CBO assumes we're going to have
00:21:04
unsustainable spiraling debt what is
00:21:07
your point of view on where we are in
00:21:08
the cycle how it's manifesting today and
00:21:11
how we're going to deal with the fiscal
00:21:12
issues that arise from these movements
00:21:15
yeah so I think where we are in that in
00:21:18
the cycle I don't take that as a passive
00:21:21
law of physics I think that who runs
00:21:24
this country and leads this country can
00:21:25
make an actual difference in the actual
00:21:29
underlying course of that so-called
00:21:31
cycle which is part of what pulls me
00:21:32
into this so I'm a little bit
00:21:33
unconventional on uh did my views on the
00:21:37
debt load and the entitlement spending
00:21:39
in this country and our first step in
00:21:41
our way out of it I I don't think we're
00:21:43
at a place of having remotely enough
00:21:46
consensus or trust and I think trust is
00:21:48
probably the more important word than
00:21:49
consensus to begin just snip snip make
00:21:52
cuts to what people feel like they were
00:21:54
entitled to and promised especially in a
00:21:57
moment where we're beginning with deep
00:21:58
distrust that will take what you call
00:22:00
those populist flames and throw kerosene
00:22:02
on it okay I do I'm more optimistic
00:22:05
about this and I think this is quite
00:22:06
realistic actually is that the next Leap
00:22:09
Forward is we can grow our way out of
00:22:12
I'm not going to say all but most of our
00:22:14
actual fiscal calam pending fiscal
00:22:17
Calamity right this year I mean I think
00:22:18
like right now last six months we're
00:22:20
talking less than 1.5 percent annualized
00:22:23
GDP growth what we're averaging right
00:22:25
now for most of our national history
00:22:26
we've actually grown it over four plus
00:22:28
percent GDP growth certainly if you go
00:22:30
back to the pre-gold standard period and
00:22:32
even after going off the gold standard
00:22:34
we had a relatively stable US dollar and
00:22:36
I am one of these weird guys who
00:22:38
believes that the FED should have a
00:22:40
single Mandate of dollar stability
00:22:41
without playing the Phillips curve game
00:22:45
but anyway put that side track to one
00:22:47
side we've grown at three four percent
00:22:49
GDP growth for most of our national
00:22:51
history even relatively recent National
00:22:53
History and I don't think it's a
00:22:55
complicated path to get back there I
00:22:58
think things we need to do
00:22:59
unlock American Energy there's you know
00:23:02
we talk about secular religions I view
00:23:03
the climate cult as one of those secular
00:23:05
religions
00:23:06
what would your specific energy plan be
00:23:09
completely completely
00:23:11
um unlock the permitting process that
00:23:13
they've used as a backdoor mechanism to
00:23:14
shut down American energy production
00:23:15
drilling fracking burning coal Coal
00:23:18
should not be a four-letter word
00:23:19
embracing nuclear energy later tonight
00:23:22
like after we're having this
00:23:23
conversation this evening I'm going to
00:23:25
be at St Anselm College laying out my
00:23:27
detail it's going to be like a giant
00:23:29
poster laying out the anatomy of how I
00:23:31
will shut down the nuclear Regulatory
00:23:33
Commission which has been a
00:23:35
fundamentally hostile administrative
00:23:37
agency to the existence of nuclear power
00:23:40
in this country actually even to the
00:23:42
detriment of actually making sure that
00:23:44
we are getting our nuclear energy from
00:23:46
Gen 2 rather than gen 3 or Gen 4
00:23:48
reactors but that'll be for tonight it's
00:23:51
an all of the above approach of
00:23:52
unshackling ourselves to produce energy
00:23:55
here in the United States to your point
00:23:57
about you know Dave made a good point
00:23:59
earlier about
00:24:01
the addiction of paying people more from
00:24:04
the federal government that becomes the
00:24:05
status quo that's your voter base that's
00:24:07
not even good in many cases for the
00:24:08
people who are giving that money too I
00:24:10
think we should stop paying people to
00:24:12
stay at home
00:24:13
when actually the top obstacle for many
00:24:15
businesses to grow you guys will know
00:24:17
this well is feeling vacant job openings
00:24:21
and so that is an obstacle to GDP growth
00:24:24
is paying people more to stay at home
00:24:26
than many of them earn to go back to
00:24:28
work do you think that the IRA was good
00:24:31
legislation
00:24:33
I I don't have um it's not like it's not
00:24:35
like my the horse that I'm gonna you
00:24:38
know uh ride right in terms of like the
00:24:40
main I'm gonna pin everything on it but
00:24:42
but I mostly don't think it was it was
00:24:44
great legislation uh what like where are
00:24:47
you coming from on that because I we
00:24:49
might have different reasons if you
00:24:50
think about what the IRA does for energy
00:24:52
and crank me if you just roll up the bil
00:24:55
chips and Ira I'm just curious your
00:24:58
thoughts on whether government
00:24:59
incentives are moving in that direction
00:25:02
that you actually support or you still
00:25:04
think it's it's missing something
00:25:06
well so one of the things that I
00:25:08
actually focus on and I think is really
00:25:11
important is
00:25:13
what can the U.S president actually do I
00:25:17
mean president Trump's I don't know
00:25:18
people remember this his main promise uh
00:25:21
policy promise was actually repeal and
00:25:22
replace Obamacare which never happened
00:25:24
because it required going through
00:25:25
Congress so I'm actually focused on
00:25:27
elements that I can deliver on without
00:25:30
asking Congress either for permission or
00:25:32
forgiveness and so that's when I
00:25:34
answered to Jason was I go straight to
00:25:35
at least let's focus on actually the
00:25:37
administrative state which on my reading
00:25:39
of the Constitution reports in to the
00:25:41
single duly elected president so when I
00:25:43
talk about the permitting process of the
00:25:44
Department of interior or shutting down
00:25:46
the nuclear Regulatory Commission I
00:25:48
believe in you know we could go I'm
00:25:50
going to details on it tonight I have
00:25:52
the legal authority to do that as the
00:25:54
U.S president I think the legislation is
00:25:56
going to be much more complicated and I
00:25:57
don't believe that I can be in a
00:26:00
position to promise what we would do
00:26:01
legislatively to any of that you
00:26:04
mentioned
00:26:05
um getting people to take all these jobs
00:26:07
that that are available
00:26:09
um do you want to talk about immigration
00:26:10
for a second and what you think about
00:26:12
that
00:26:12
yeah merit-based immigration before you
00:26:14
go right to immigration would would you
00:26:16
are you saying you would cut
00:26:17
entitlements like unemployment or
00:26:19
shorten the unemployment period to force
00:26:21
people to go back to work is that
00:26:23
and tie them to work requirements
00:26:25
absolutely yeah would you have a
00:26:27
specific for that like a certain number
00:26:28
of months or you know yeah a pretty good
00:26:31
a pretty good I mean I do but I think
00:26:33
that's again I'm very clear about what I
00:26:35
will do through executive Authority what
00:26:38
needs to go through legislation I mean
00:26:39
that's all a negotiation but I think a
00:26:40
good principle is 1996 or in the 1990s
00:26:44
work Fair under Clinton was actually far
00:26:47
more aggressive than the work
00:26:49
environment work requirements that were
00:26:51
put into this supposed republican-led
00:26:54
debt deal where like what did they say
00:26:56
it was if you're age 18 to 55 and you
00:27:01
are able-bodied and childless then you
00:27:04
have to work at least 20 hours a week in
00:27:07
order to receive more than three months
00:27:10
out of three years worth of welfare
00:27:12
right
00:27:13
you know Joe Biden as a U.S senator
00:27:15
voted for actually much more stringent
00:27:18
work Fair requirements in the 90s so you
00:27:20
know yes I have ideas on specifics but
00:27:22
I'm not going to make a promise on
00:27:23
exactly what that specific will look
00:27:24
like but a guiding principle is it has
00:27:26
to be at least as aggressive as what we
00:27:28
adopted I mean during Clinton we had 69
00:27:31
almost 70 participation and we're at 60.
00:27:34
now I think so it's obvious that we have
00:27:36
to uh trim that the next point you know
00:27:39
we have 10 million job openings we're
00:27:41
not letting anybody in how would you
00:27:43
look at immigration obviously we have
00:27:44
people coming in the southern border
00:27:46
illegally and then we have H-1B visas
00:27:48
and now Canada is saying hey we'll steal
00:27:51
all those h-1bs we'll take them so how
00:27:53
do you look at immigration to chamat's
00:27:54
question
00:27:56
merit-based immigration I mean one of
00:27:57
the things that Canada does have and I'm
00:27:59
not a fan of America mutating Canada or
00:28:01
anything like this in in most respects
00:28:03
but they do have a point-based system
00:28:05
right they have a point-based system and
00:28:06
so
00:28:07
I think the point-based system should
00:28:09
work differently in the U.S but I do
00:28:12
favor merit-based immigration I'm a
00:28:15
little bit of a departure from what I
00:28:16
think is the Republican consensus here
00:28:18
you know people I respect Tom Cotton and
00:28:20
others have proposed bills with a hard
00:28:22
cap on the number of immigrants
00:28:24
I think it's a mistake I think that the
00:28:26
cap should declare itself based on how
00:28:28
many people meet the meritocratic
00:28:30
criteria
00:28:31
qualities then for what would be your
00:28:34
top criteria in this point-based system
00:28:35
two criteria skills that match up to job
00:28:37
openings in the United States but
00:28:40
secondarily and this one's important to
00:28:41
me
00:28:43
I would move the Civics portion of
00:28:46
becoming a citizen to the front end of
00:28:49
even being granted a visa to enter this
00:28:51
country and I think that addresses and
00:28:53
accommodates an important part of the
00:28:56
concern that many people who are
00:28:57
pro-immigration cap actually favor is I
00:29:00
think there are legitimate concerns
00:29:01
about the dilution the loss of a
00:29:03
national identity
00:29:04
but a lot of that is conflated with
00:29:06
first the cycle of illegal immigration
00:29:08
I'm a hardliner on this I favor putting
00:29:10
the U.S military on the southern border
00:29:13
I've said I would use it on the northern
00:29:14
border I believe that that we're on
00:29:16
strong constitutional and legal
00:29:18
authority to do it I do not think
00:29:20
building the wall was enough there are
00:29:22
cartel Finance tunnels underneath that
00:29:24
wall that Vehicles literally run through
00:29:25
today so in some ways I'm going further
00:29:27
than Trump in this direction but
00:29:29
simultaneously de bureaucratized speed
00:29:33
up the process for merit-based
00:29:35
immigration but part of Merit includes
00:29:38
not just skills but also Civic
00:29:42
commitments to the country and I'm you
00:29:44
know I use the word nationalist before I
00:29:46
know that scares some people I mean it
00:29:47
in a positive way
00:29:50
I think every high school student in
00:29:52
this country should have to pass the
00:29:54
same Civics test that an immigrant has
00:29:56
to pass in order to become a citizen of
00:29:58
this country
00:29:59
I also would favor bringing that on the
00:30:01
front end and it selects for the kind of
00:30:03
people who know something about the
00:30:04
country when they enter which I think is
00:30:06
a good thing people should assimilate
00:30:07
and they should love this country in
00:30:09
order to come into the country
00:30:10
yes I do I think I think you should want
00:30:12
to come here to be an American yeah
00:30:14
I think I think you get agreement Around
00:30:16
the Horn here
00:30:18
sax you've heard uh vivec's position so
00:30:21
far you obviously are passionate about
00:30:23
the GOP what do you agree with and what
00:30:25
don't you agree with so far well there's
00:30:27
a lot of stuff to agree with there we're
00:30:28
talking about American exceptionalism
00:30:30
one thing I want to talk about there is
00:30:31
that I agree that America is exceptional
00:30:37
and we're most exceptional when we're
00:30:39
trying to set an example for other
00:30:40
nations when we're trying to be The
00:30:42
Shining City on a Hill as Reagan put it
00:30:45
but lately and really I mean over the
00:30:47
last couple of decades what you've seen
00:30:50
is that what the American exceptionalism
00:30:52
means to a lot of people in Washington
00:30:54
is that we run all over the world and
00:30:56
impose our ideology and our values on
00:31:00
all these different countries we began
00:31:02
this great crusade to try and spread
00:31:04
democracy in the Middle East we tried to
00:31:06
turn countries like Afghanistan and Iraq
00:31:09
into madisonian democracies we now are
00:31:14
very very involved in Ukraine basically
00:31:16
trying to detach that country from the
00:31:20
Russian sphere of influence and turning
00:31:21
it into a member of our
00:31:23
military and economic Alliance
00:31:26
so it does seem like American
00:31:28
exceptionalism has taken on this sort of
00:31:30
harder more militarized Edge where would
00:31:33
you draw the line I mean like what makes
00:31:36
sense to you I think
00:31:39
I basically agree with everything you
00:31:40
just said I think as a side note on the
00:31:42
geopolitics of it I do think Ukraine is
00:31:44
on track to become potentially the next
00:31:46
Vietnam or the next Iraq I think you
00:31:47
have said similar things
00:31:50
I also think there's something else
00:31:51
going on with Ukraine that's fueling
00:31:53
this which relates to the deeper
00:31:55
identity crisis in our country that I
00:31:57
described earlier I think Ukraine has
00:31:59
become a new religion right in the
00:32:01
country and it's a substitute for
00:32:03
purpose and meaning just like climate
00:32:05
ideology or wokism is and and you know
00:32:08
there's the flag it's like a crusade I
00:32:09
mean you have people like waving these
00:32:11
oh absolutely yeah you go to Washington
00:32:13
DC at least I did in June I was there
00:32:15
for one of the Sunday shows where my
00:32:17
wife and I are going for a walk we saw
00:32:18
more trans flags and Ukraine Flags than
00:32:21
we did American flags on a short walk
00:32:23
that we took through Washington DC our
00:32:25
nation's capital so I'm not I'm not
00:32:28
whining about this or being histrionic
00:32:30
about it I just think getting to the
00:32:31
essence of what's going on I think
00:32:33
that's a different element of Ukraine
00:32:34
that's different from even what we saw
00:32:38
with Vietnam or Iraq
00:32:39
I don't think American exceptionalism is
00:32:41
foisting our values on anyone I think
00:32:43
American exceptionalism is about
00:32:45
demonstrating through our example how
00:32:48
America flourishes and is strong when we
00:32:51
live by our own ideals
00:32:53
and I think the best way we give hope to
00:32:55
the Free World Is by being that shining
00:32:57
City on a Hill not going somewhere else
00:32:59
and talking about it with tanks behind
00:33:02
us while actually suffering here at home
00:33:04
if you roam the streets of Kensington as
00:33:07
I did a few weeks ago you know you don't
00:33:09
have to go to you don't have to go to
00:33:10
Baghdad to see the third world and so
00:33:12
that I think is is I think a big loss of
00:33:15
where we are today in the country when
00:33:17
you're President Putin invades Ukraine
00:33:19
you would sit back not give any
00:33:21
armaments and let them roll in
00:33:23
here's what I would do I would actually
00:33:25
be proactive in doing a deal and I've
00:33:27
been very clear about the deal I would
00:33:29
do
00:33:30
Trump has said he would do a deal in 24
00:33:31
hours he didn't say what it was I I
00:33:33
believe there's a deal to be done but I
00:33:35
also believe it's important to be clear
00:33:36
about what the Contours of that deal
00:33:38
would be
00:33:40
I would freeze the current line let's
00:33:42
take the status quo right now it so I
00:33:44
can answer your question or I can answer
00:33:46
starting from the present if you don't
00:33:48
we could do it I mean the obvious yeah
00:33:50
the obvious is maybe put NATO take NATO
00:33:53
off the table and avoid the whole thing
00:33:54
but now we're yeah yeah we're playing
00:33:57
history so maybe it's better to talk
00:33:58
about what's happening in the present
00:34:00
right because I don't think that we
00:34:01
would have if I was President I don't
00:34:02
think we would have gotten to the point
00:34:03
of those things rolling in Angela Merkel
00:34:05
made some disastrous comments Putin made
00:34:07
a hard demand we would have said hard no
00:34:09
to Ukraine joining NATO and that would
00:34:11
have been that there would have been no
00:34:12
tanks rolling and Putin made let's talk
00:34:13
about if you took NATO off the table put
00:34:15
may have still invaded we don't know I I
00:34:17
don't think so but we can't you know
00:34:18
those are counter factuals that we
00:34:20
exactly you know yeah we're not going to
00:34:22
have one side or the other being able to
00:34:24
to prove that right so let's talk about
00:34:26
the present right now let's say I'm US
00:34:29
president
00:34:30
I would freeze the current lines of
00:34:32
control we have a precedent for doing
00:34:34
this the Korean War Korean War style
00:34:36
Armistice that does give Putin most of
00:34:39
the donbass region
00:34:41
that's beyond the pale of what many are
00:34:44
willing to accept in either party but I
00:34:45
think any deal someone has to win
00:34:47
everyone has to win something out of the
00:34:49
deal I would further then give that
00:34:51
assurance that NATO will not admit
00:34:52
Ukraine to Nato
00:34:55
but there's a requirement in return the
00:34:57
biggest requirement is that Russia has
00:34:59
to exit its military partnership with
00:35:02
China there's a 2001 treaty it's called
00:35:05
the Treaty of good neighborliness and
00:35:06
cooperation military cooperation between
00:35:09
the two countries that Xi Jinping and
00:35:11
Putin ratcheted up to the so-called
00:35:14
strategic No Limits partnership in 2022.
00:35:17
that is why China is now coming by the
00:35:19
way to Russia's Aid I personally believe
00:35:22
we are absolutely sending Putin into XI
00:35:25
jinping's arms in a way that's a mistake
00:35:28
I would also require that Putin remove
00:35:30
his nuclear weapons from kaliningrad
00:35:32
that we take any Russian military
00:35:34
presence in the U.S in the Western
00:35:35
Hemisphere off the table Venezuela Cuba
00:35:38
Nicaragua
00:35:40
I think this is a deal that Putin would
00:35:41
do if we paired it with reopening
00:35:43
economic relations with Russia which I
00:35:45
would do because I think Putin does not
00:35:47
and I can give you some evidence for
00:35:48
this but I think Putin does not enjoy
00:35:50
being XI jinping's little brother
00:35:52
and so I think that this is actually an
00:35:53
opportunity and I have to confess I'm a
00:35:55
guy who sees our foreign policy prism
00:35:58
through the prism of believing that
00:36:00
China is the top long-run threat that we
00:36:03
face and so most of my foreign policy
00:36:05
views and National Security views even
00:36:07
on topics that are apparently unrelated
00:36:09
to China I still see it through that
00:36:10
prism but this one isn't a far leap
00:36:12
because China is literally in a military
00:36:14
treaty with Russia and coming to their
00:36:15
aid I would use the Ukraine war and an
00:36:18
end to the Ukraine war as a way to
00:36:22
bifurcate the russia-china relationship
00:36:24
and divide basically dissolve that
00:36:27
relationship
00:36:28
and then actually that's our best way
00:36:30
and most effective step towards
00:36:32
deterring Xi Jinping from going after
00:36:35
Taiwan
00:36:36
because right now Xi Jinping you know I
00:36:39
think that there's a mistaken consensus
00:36:40
view that the way he thinks about it is
00:36:41
oh Reason by analogy rather than by
00:36:44
actual analyzing of a situation say oh
00:36:46
well he got that piece of land maybe I
00:36:48
can go get this island I don't think he
00:36:50
Reasons by analogy I think he Reasons by
00:36:53
the cards he has in terms of hard power
00:36:55
so his bet is that
00:36:57
the U.S won't want to go to war with two
00:37:00
different Allied nuclear superpowers at
00:37:02
the same time but if Russia is no longer
00:37:04
in his Camp then Xi Jinping is going to
00:37:07
have to think twice about going after
00:37:08
Taiwan so then I guess part of my
00:37:10
broader Taiwan expression there is you
00:37:13
wouldn't defend Ukraine would you have
00:37:15
America and the Allies defend Taiwan if
00:37:17
it was invaded
00:37:18
I would at least until the U.S has
00:37:21
achieved semiconductor Independence
00:37:24
yeah because we depend on them for our
00:37:26
modern way of life in a way that we
00:37:28
don't on Ukraine and then the latter
00:37:30
part of this is it sounds a little crass
00:37:32
to some people but I believe in being
00:37:33
honest I actually think that
00:37:35
yeah I'll get to the I'll get to this
00:37:38
point in a second but to answer your
00:37:39
question
00:37:41
yes until we've achieved semiconductor
00:37:43
Independence God I believe we can
00:37:44
achieve semiconductor Independence yeah
00:37:46
so it's not your belief is not hey these
00:37:49
are two democracies they both deserve
00:37:51
equal defense from the United States
00:37:53
Ukraine and Taiwan it's Ukraine doesn't
00:37:55
have semiconductors we don't have a
00:37:57
strategic need to defend them in Taiwan
00:37:59
so it's a lot more of a pragmatic
00:38:01
Cutthroat approach to foreign policy
00:38:03
it is I I
00:38:05
um of course
00:38:06
um you know resist the characterization
00:38:08
of cutthroat a little bit I go back to
00:38:10
the principle that David mentioned of
00:38:11
what American exceptionalism
00:38:13
is to me is that when America is strong
00:38:16
and is flourishing and Americans are
00:38:19
flourishing within America we set the
00:38:21
example for the Free World of what is
00:38:23
possible
00:38:24
and so my view is that yes at least
00:38:27
until time until we're semiconductor
00:38:29
self-sufficient and I think things work
00:38:30
out here where I think we can get there
00:38:34
we've got our semiconductors up and
00:38:36
running you'll let China roll into
00:38:38
Taiwan no big deal for you
00:38:40
I will say that I definitely evaluate
00:38:43
that very differently than I do today
00:38:49
your thoughts Free Bird yeah let me just
00:38:52
ask so Vivek I mean
00:38:57
I think that your point is is a really
00:38:59
important one which is that when we're
00:39:01
happy at home we tend not to look for
00:39:03
conflict abroad
00:39:05
that's almost a universal
00:39:08
truth that's emerged from history human
00:39:10
civilization
00:39:12
has shown that you know when the people
00:39:16
in a democracy in particular are happy
00:39:18
at home and certainly autocracies are
00:39:20
quite different
00:39:21
Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar
00:39:24
Augustus Caesar you go through history
00:39:25
but like when you have a true democracy
00:39:27
you don't vote to go and you don't
00:39:29
support the idea of conflict abroad if
00:39:32
you're happy at home but the counter is
00:39:34
true which is when you're unhappy at
00:39:35
home you tend to look for conflict
00:39:36
abroad and by some assessments Ray dalio
00:39:40
had this great book about this
00:39:42
the changing world order I don't know if
00:39:44
you if you read it
00:39:45
but you know he makes this point about
00:39:47
the internal strife leads to external
00:39:50
conflict which is why it felt like we
00:39:51
were going to go that way with Ukraine
00:39:53
Russia coming out of 21. so I wonder are
00:39:57
we happy at home
00:39:59
we're not and I want to ask it I want to
00:40:01
ask another question tied to this why is
00:40:04
Donald Trump leading in the polls
00:40:06
because I think that the two go hand in
00:40:08
hand there is something that he
00:40:10
represents and there's something about
00:40:11
his voice that I think Echoes the
00:40:14
sentiment of this populist unhappiness
00:40:17
inside of this country today that
00:40:19
manifest in a bunch of ways one of which
00:40:21
is the interest in and support for
00:40:24
external conflict but I don't know if
00:40:26
you're up for kind of thinking about
00:40:27
tackling the two questions together but
00:40:28
I love your your take on that yeah great
00:40:31
question I think you're
00:40:33
absolutely right I mean you're extending
00:40:35
a theme of where I talk about sort of
00:40:37
domestic cultural annoyances as a
00:40:40
symptom of a deeper vacuum in our
00:40:42
national soul I think that actually our
00:40:45
projection and focus abroad is a lot
00:40:48
easier of a deflection away from the
00:40:50
harder step of taking a long hard look
00:40:52
in the mirror and asking ourselves about
00:40:54
the health of our own Nation today and
00:40:57
so I think that's a deep question
00:40:59
I think we're not healthy as a nation
00:41:01
today I think we suffer from deep-seated
00:41:03
Psychic insecurity psychological
00:41:05
insecurities I think the economic
00:41:07
stagnation the fact that real wage
00:41:09
growth isn't up for the bottom 99 of the
00:41:11
country now a lot of that I put at the
00:41:12
feet of the Federal Reserve there are a
00:41:14
lot of other complex factors behind it
00:41:16
but a lot of this feeds into
00:41:18
what you call populism I don't
00:41:21
excuse me I don't I don't like this by
00:41:24
the way just to be clear I think that
00:41:25
it's just imprecise it's a rapper that
00:41:28
tries to catch too many things and it
00:41:30
doesn't catch any of them enough so yeah
00:41:31
yeah well you're calling populism is
00:41:34
actually a failure of our Elites isn't
00:41:37
that what's going on we saw during covid
00:41:39
that all the health authorities did a
00:41:41
horrible job the CDC and the NIH it
00:41:44
turns out they were funding function
00:41:46
research which may have caused kovid in
00:41:48
the first place they were doing
00:41:49
experiments on bat viruses almost
00:41:51
certainly did cause yeah exactly so
00:41:54
you know we keep finding out that the
00:41:56
elites are supposed to be running the
00:41:57
country and running these institutions
00:41:59
they're doing an absolutely horrible job
00:42:00
that's what the reaction is against then
00:42:03
people come along and label up populism
00:42:05
and say it's going to lead to Fascism
00:42:06
it's like come on that is a way of
00:42:08
protecting the people in power from
00:42:11
accountability for the horrible job
00:42:13
they're doing it's well said absolutely
00:42:15
and the use of the word populism is
00:42:18
almost stacking that debate in favor of
00:42:21
saying that those grievances aren't
00:42:22
legitimate and so I think why is Donald
00:42:25
Trump
00:42:26
polling at number one in the polls
00:42:28
because people know the truth I think
00:42:30
those grievances are absolutely
00:42:32
legitimate now I think the mood of the
00:42:35
country has changed a little bit
00:42:36
including the mood of the hard
00:42:37
conservative base has changed since
00:42:40
2015. I think there's now I think there
00:42:43
is now a sense that what are we actually
00:42:45
going to do about it are we are we going
00:42:47
to go the direction of a national
00:42:48
divorce I mean
00:42:50
your divorce is one of these things that
00:42:51
speaks itself into existence maybe
00:42:54
applies at the same at the level of a
00:42:55
Nation right that's on the table it's in
00:42:57
the it's in The Ether
00:42:59
I don't think most people including in
00:43:01
our hardcore America first base I'm part
00:43:04
of that base
00:43:05
I don't think want a national divorce
00:43:08
and so I think that the moment now calls
00:43:11
for this is why I'm in this race this is
00:43:12
actually why at this point I couldn't
00:43:14
have told you this in March but at this
00:43:15
point I'm convinced we're actually going
00:43:16
to be successful in this
00:43:19
this is what the unique Fusion we're
00:43:22
going to require is not somebody showing
00:43:23
up saying hope Kumbaya let's move
00:43:25
forward compromise hold hands and
00:43:28
declare its morning again in America no
00:43:30
that ain't gonna work
00:43:32
but I think it requires recognizing the
00:43:34
legitimacy of those grievances not as
00:43:36
lip service I I believe for the same
00:43:39
reasons mentioned
00:43:40
many of those grievances are legitimate
00:43:42
they're grounded in truth but to say
00:43:45
as I often say to the left
00:43:47
hardship is not the same thing as
00:43:49
victimhood and we're not going to choose
00:43:51
victimhood we're going to choose
00:43:53
recognition of Truth as our best path to
00:43:57
heal over whatever's happened and then
00:43:58
to move forward that's why I've come out
00:44:00
and been very vocal about the fact that
00:44:01
I would pardon Trump of each of the two
00:44:04
indictments that have already been
00:44:05
brought in if the j6 indictment is
00:44:06
brought against him I would do the same
00:44:08
thing
00:44:09
I think that we have to be able to
00:44:11
recognize the truth of our past
00:44:14
grievances of our fellow Americans and
00:44:17
actually not just pay lip service to it
00:44:21
but feel into it and acknowledge the
00:44:22
reality of them I think that's then the
00:44:24
table Stakes events meeting a demand
00:44:27
that many in our Grassroots conservative
00:44:29
base have I'm one of them a desire to
00:44:32
also move forward as one nation and I
00:44:34
think both of those elements are going
00:44:35
to be required they don't go together I
00:44:37
think there are people in the Republican
00:44:39
primary who offer
00:44:40
each of those on their own yeah
00:44:44
whoever successful gonna have to offer
00:44:46
both this morning there was a
00:44:48
an opinion piece I'm assuming you read
00:44:50
it by Rich Lowry chief of the National
00:44:52
Review published on Politico
00:44:55
get ready for the Vivek ramaswamy moment
00:44:57
in which
00:44:59
I would say he's fairly effusive about
00:45:01
the campaign you're running right I mean
00:45:03
would you agree like effusive you said
00:45:05
yeah so there was so really yeah did you
00:45:08
read the piece I mean I thought there
00:45:09
were some really is it abusive oh really
00:45:11
interesting he loves you yeah no he said
00:45:14
he doesn't love me actually no he
00:45:15
doesn't love you but he said something I
00:45:17
think he said some complimentary things
00:45:18
about your campaign about your character
00:45:20
but said there's no way you're going to
00:45:22
win and win for president well you went
00:45:24
from under one percent I think now the
00:45:26
latest polls has you above five percent
00:45:27
and we're in the very early Innings here
00:45:29
right
00:45:30
I think there's one that just came I
00:45:31
mean yeah there's some that have you
00:45:33
know bounced a little higher than that
00:45:34
but yeah you're a little higher before
00:45:35
the first debate the thing that vivek's
00:45:37
done let me just State this Observer and
00:45:38
then you can react to it is that you
00:45:41
have kind of inserted yourself in the
00:45:44
debate on every issue you know every day
00:45:47
as it comes up I mean you're kind of
00:45:49
living off the land as a candidate not
00:45:51
out there with just kind of a
00:45:52
traditional stump speech but you're
00:45:55
finding a way to insert yourself into
00:45:57
the debate every day on social media I
00:45:59
see it right I mean you post a tweet
00:46:02
that will hit the nerve of whatever the
00:46:04
issue is going viral that day which
00:46:07
means that you'll go viral and so for
00:46:09
months I've been seeing your tweets go
00:46:10
super viral and so it's not surprising
00:46:13
to me that your kids is starting to you
00:46:17
know catch on in that way what's
00:46:19
remarkable to me is that other
00:46:21
candidates can't do it I mean when you
00:46:22
first started doing it I was kind of
00:46:23
like okay this is
00:46:25
obvious and easy of course this is what
00:46:26
you would do but other candidates have
00:46:28
not really done that for whatever reason
00:46:30
so I mean
00:46:32
my perspective yeah my perspective on
00:46:35
that because if we use it I don't like
00:46:37
it is when you accuse us of creating a
00:46:38
banking crisis but other than that
00:46:41
yeah I do want to close the loop on that
00:46:43
one we can either do it on air or off
00:46:45
actually because yeah let's go do it
00:46:47
right now yeah yeah you know so for the
00:46:49
other kid it's not doing it it's
00:46:51
anyway that's less interesting it's fine
00:46:53
maybe they'll do it it's not running it
00:46:56
through a filter right because I think
00:46:57
the traditional political thing is and
00:46:59
here's what's going to happen to me as a
00:47:00
consequence I'm going to eat the
00:47:01
consequence of this right everything
00:47:03
comes at a cost there's no free lunch
00:47:04
I'm gonna say something in real time
00:47:07
that reflects my honest instincts that's
00:47:09
my whole strategy right people can tell
00:47:11
the difference but then I'm going to
00:47:13
change my mind on one out of 100 things
00:47:15
okay and that's just gonna happen right
00:47:17
and it's going to be open to that and
00:47:19
eat my words and you know I'm gonna do
00:47:21
it at some point and that's the
00:47:23
trade-off we're making is that I'm not
00:47:24
running it through the filters I'm I'm
00:47:27
not making up what I believe I'm telling
00:47:28
you actually to the contrary what I
00:47:30
truly believe
00:47:31
but if I'm doing it really that rapidly
00:47:33
in response to what's happening I think
00:47:36
people appreciate that but I'm going to
00:47:37
eat my words at some point and that's
00:47:38
okay in response to new information
00:47:39
response new information or sometimes
00:47:42
even in response to reflection right
00:47:44
basically because it's less filtered
00:47:47
this is what you're saying you might
00:47:48
make a gap do you want to close the loop
00:47:49
on this other thing yeah do you think
00:47:50
Jason caused a banking crisis by using
00:47:52
all caps locks when he tweeted yes or no
00:47:54
I do nothing
00:47:58
tweet on a Saturday night call as a bank
00:48:01
run
00:48:01
I did not say I I did not I never said
00:48:04
that either but we did go at it pretty
00:48:05
hard I think actually I I think there's
00:48:07
a chance we might still disagree Dave
00:48:09
but I think that I've done the sacks
00:48:11
here but yeah
00:48:14
so so I've actually talked to a lot of
00:48:16
friends who were in the position of
00:48:20
running companies that had some amount
00:48:22
of Gap and and we talked through this
00:48:24
like the specifics of the situation and
00:48:26
then it dawned on me
00:48:27
where and it might it's not it's not
00:48:30
necessarily we're gonna agree at the end
00:48:31
of this but there's a chance that we
00:48:33
might actually
00:48:35
which is this so
00:48:38
in the lead up to this before that
00:48:40
Friday I was already against
00:48:43
any governmental intervention here let
00:48:45
this play out why because like let's put
00:48:47
aside all the histrionics do the math on
00:48:49
it
00:48:50
and I'm remember there's a little hazy
00:48:52
now right so on the facts but I think
00:48:53
it's approximately right and you correct
00:48:55
me if you have up-to-date facts on this
00:48:56
but I think it's approximately right if
00:48:58
everybody had run
00:49:00
and gotten their money out
00:49:03
I think it would have been like 94 cents
00:49:05
on the dollar that everybody would have
00:49:06
walked out with right and so what
00:49:09
happened on Friday is in this department
00:49:11
where I want to potentially build a
00:49:12
bridge here the part that what happened
00:49:14
on Friday was that Friday was the
00:49:17
government
00:49:18
uh with FDIC or otherwise froze
00:49:22
yeah
00:49:23
Friday morning yeah yeah the Friday
00:49:25
morning you're much closer to this you
00:49:27
know in the details but the California
00:49:28
regulator froze the ability to take out
00:49:30
deposits so I am more sympathetic
00:49:33
to the point that once the government's
00:49:35
gotten involved because that really has
00:49:36
been like
00:49:38
you know kind of like an oh crap moment
00:49:40
where your CEO of a company or CFO and
00:49:42
you want to get your money and then you
00:49:44
can't now it's Panic right right and so
00:49:48
I think that there's a version of the
00:49:49
world where the version of the world I
00:49:51
wanted I was talking about this before
00:49:52
you and I were talking directly to each
00:49:54
other I just think they should have
00:49:55
stayed out of it 94 cents on the dollar
00:49:56
not bad which is why the public didn't
00:49:58
actually end up directly using taxpayer
00:50:01
funds was because the bank was healthy
00:50:02
in its own right that's what that's the
00:50:04
worst result a bank run would have
00:50:05
produced there which actually should
00:50:07
have been heartening in terms of
00:50:08
confidence let me give you an Insight
00:50:10
that maybe you weren't
00:50:12
as close to as the rest of us were which
00:50:14
is on all the boards that all of us sit
00:50:16
on all of the boards were discussing
00:50:18
independent of this show and the
00:50:20
conversations and the media we need to
00:50:22
move all of our money out of all of the
00:50:24
banks that aren't one of the top three
00:50:25
and move all of our money into those top
00:50:27
three so the point which is a shame
00:50:30
that's that's the point of view that we
00:50:33
all saw was that there was a mad rush in
00:50:36
Corporate America in startup land in
00:50:38
small business land this isn't even VC
00:50:41
land this is like everything from the
00:50:43
non-profits that we sit on the board of
00:50:45
to the you know laundromat to the dry
00:50:47
cleaner to every business in a small
00:50:50
Bank was saying I gotta move my money
00:50:52
into a big bank now and that's where the
00:50:54
whole banking system is put at risk and
00:50:56
that is why we all universally felt that
00:50:59
it was important to highlight that the
00:51:02
federal government needs to step in and
00:51:03
reassure and rebuild confidence in the
00:51:06
small banks in this country
00:51:08
and that the only way to do that was to
00:51:10
say your deposits are safe and that was
00:51:13
it and that that was the point because
00:51:14
the Panic that was going on in small
00:51:16
business land in America which as you
00:51:18
know employs half of the people in this
00:51:20
country was at risk and that those
00:51:22
people those small businesses were
00:51:24
fearful and they were looking to rush to
00:51:25
the big Banks and that would have
00:51:26
cradered the small banks around the
00:51:28
country so and I think it's it's a
00:51:30
different advantage point right we have
00:51:31
a discussion about populism and
00:51:32
everything else yeah
00:51:34
I don't think Dave sacks caused the bank
00:51:37
run anymore that I'm causing populist
00:51:40
waves in this country again it was Jason
00:51:42
with his caps lock but yeah go ahead but
00:51:44
I think I think the reality is pure
00:51:46
literally have tweeted that I caused the
00:51:47
bankrupts insane but there's there's a
00:51:50
technical there's a technical Point uh
00:51:51
I'll make and then we'll get to the
00:51:52
deeper way the technical point to close
00:51:54
lupus I think Dave I find your position
00:51:58
more reasonable given that it's after
00:52:01
Friday when the California Regulators
00:52:03
came in and locked in but in my version
00:52:04
of the world I would have just said stay
00:52:07
the heck out government of any kind 94
00:52:10
cents on the dollar there's a six
00:52:11
percent haircut and and we've discovered
00:52:14
the market actually works and we avoid
00:52:16
playing favoritism in the first place
00:52:17
and I say this as somebody who and this
00:52:19
is where you understand my vantage point
00:52:22
have been a long time opponent of the
00:52:25
creation of the notion of sibs
00:52:26
systemically important banks in the
00:52:28
first place as an opponent to the
00:52:29
bailouts of 2008 as somebody who's
00:52:31
running for U.S president not to lead
00:52:33
incremental reforms but a sort of
00:52:35
revolution in the kind of restoration
00:52:37
and the Integrity of both capitalism and
00:52:38
democracy that I think is actually the
00:52:40
best antidote to would you try to
00:52:42
deconstruct the sibs
00:52:45
well I mean give the status quo of where
00:52:46
we are I think that I would have to
00:52:48
offer a credible enough basis to make
00:52:51
sure that people know that if there's a
00:52:53
system so-called previously known as
00:52:54
systemically important bank that fails
00:52:56
that the Public's still not going to be
00:52:58
there for them but in a way that allows
00:53:00
for enough of a enough of an unburdened
00:53:03
banking sector that we have resilience
00:53:05
in terms of exactly who can actually
00:53:08
fill that void and I think that there is
00:53:10
a discursive impact on I don't think it
00:53:12
has to be and this is where we may
00:53:14
disagree a little bit and there's a
00:53:16
small scale disagreement I don't think
00:53:17
it has to be a state of the world where
00:53:19
we just assume consumers are dumb and
00:53:21
don't take this into account consumers
00:53:22
are in part dumb because we treat them
00:53:24
as dumb right and so these it's like a
00:53:26
Heisenberg effect right you can't you
00:53:29
know you you assume you're following
00:53:30
what's then what I mean is
00:53:32
you you know basic principle in physics
00:53:36
you can't you know observe the spin and
00:53:38
not affect the spin of the electron at
00:53:39
the same time I think the same thing
00:53:41
applies to a relationship between the
00:53:42
government and its people and so I think
00:53:44
part of the reason that people I think I
00:53:46
feel the same way about the FDA by the
00:53:48
way I think people would be far more
00:53:51
scrutinizing of the medicines they took
00:53:54
if it didn't come with the crowding out
00:53:57
effect of that individual level of
00:54:00
self-responsibility and due diligence
00:54:01
that the government wasn't doing but now
00:54:03
we live in the worst of all worlds where
00:54:04
we have neither the government's neither
00:54:06
actually protecting nor actually
00:54:07
providing the space for individual
00:54:09
responsibility I just wanted to hear you
00:54:11
know you make a statement you collect
00:54:13
data one in a hundred you say you'll
00:54:15
change your mind
00:54:16
I just want to understand with all the
00:54:18
data the past the present and probably
00:54:20
who knows every every incremental day we
00:54:23
see something new what is the full 360
00:54:26
degree view that Vivek ramaswamy has of
00:54:29
Donald Trump full 360 degree view got it
00:54:32
yeah I actually haven't had a space to
00:54:33
articulate this yet so I I think this I
00:54:36
think is useful
00:54:38
so my view is that he was a successful
00:54:42
president
00:54:43
measured by Reviving the economy
00:54:45
sex over president period how why do I
00:54:48
say that
00:54:50
Reviving The Economy growing the
00:54:51
American economy I think that
00:54:53
recognizing and speaking to and
00:54:56
partially addressing concerns that had
00:54:58
been historically unaddressed by both
00:55:00
both major political parties we did not
00:55:03
enter a major war we were on the brink
00:55:05
of major conflict with North Korea on
00:55:07
the precipice in other parts of the
00:55:09
world Isis was a thing it is you know by
00:55:12
it exists but it's by and large not the
00:55:14
same threat that it was after his
00:55:16
presidency as it was when he took over
00:55:17
these are major accomplishments right I
00:55:20
think the immigration crisis I think is
00:55:22
far worse today precisely because
00:55:24
Biden's in office and not Trump so I
00:55:27
believe he was a successful president
00:55:30
that's view number one view number two
00:55:33
he has an effect on people
00:55:35
about 30 percent of this country that I
00:55:38
think becomes
00:55:40
psychiatrically ill when he is the U.S
00:55:43
president
00:55:44
I I think it's just a fact right
00:55:46
agreeing with things that they otherwise
00:55:48
wouldn't have agreed with because the 30
00:55:49
number applies on our pod too one in
00:55:52
four
00:55:54
well I think that I think it's just it's
00:55:56
just the reality is
00:55:58
people lose their ability to process
00:56:00
information people lose the ability to
00:56:02
think independently it's like a demonic
00:56:05
possession that happens in this country
00:56:07
of about as best I can tell about 30 of
00:56:09
the country and I think that's not good
00:56:10
for the country and we can debate who's
00:56:12
to blame for that or whatever but I'm
00:56:14
just stating in an observation that I
00:56:16
feel pretty strongly about
00:56:17
and so I think most of Trump's policies
00:56:19
were good do I have some policy
00:56:20
disagreements with them of course I do
00:56:22
it would be weird if any two people
00:56:23
agreed on 100 of things I would re-enter
00:56:25
the cptpp he exited the TPP I think his
00:56:29
exit of the TPP gives us a stronger
00:56:30
negotiating position with Malaysia and
00:56:33
Japan to you know fix some of the micro
00:56:34
things that we might have wanted China's
00:56:36
not in the TPP that's part of the path
00:56:38
to actually declare economic
00:56:39
independence from China if it comes to
00:56:40
that we could go into a lot of different
00:56:43
details I would have rescinded the
00:56:44
affirmative action executive order that
00:56:46
Lyndon signed that I asked Trump's
00:56:47
people why they didn't they said it was
00:56:48
a political Hill they didn't want to die
00:56:50
on I'd shut down the Department of
00:56:51
Education we can go on but broadly
00:56:55
he was a successful president with whom
00:56:56
I mostly agree on his broad policy
00:56:58
vision and especially his handling did
00:57:00
he get wrong and what and was the
00:57:03
election stolen yeah so so I mean I gave
00:57:06
you like small examples of what he got
00:57:07
wrong but I think the real character the
00:57:09
real thing that he got wrong
00:57:12
I'm not sure that getting wrong is the
00:57:14
even framing it's just a fact that 30 of
00:57:17
this country became psychiatrically ill
00:57:19
and you're the leader of this country
00:57:20
you're leading a nation and so you could
00:57:22
decide whose fault that is but I believe
00:57:24
leaders are ultimately judged by their
00:57:25
results
00:57:27
and for whatever reason even when I'm
00:57:29
saying the same things that Trump often
00:57:31
did as a matter of policy or foreign
00:57:33
policy or domestic economic policy
00:57:37
maybe it's because people don't don't
00:57:39
yet know me broadly but I don't think
00:57:40
that's it actually
00:57:42
I don't think I'm having that effect on
00:57:43
people
00:57:44
and I think that that's why I'm in this
00:57:47
race to carry forward Unapologetic
00:57:49
George Washington America First policies
00:57:51
and to do so more successfully but also
00:57:55
in a way that unites the country around
00:57:57
that Vision more so than Donald Trump
00:57:59
ever did or could in a second term
00:58:01
was the election stolen
00:58:04
here's the sense in which I think the
00:58:05
election was stolen in a data-driven way
00:58:08
I have not seen any data to suggest that
00:58:11
the ballot fraud or anything like that
00:58:12
would have been sufficient to overturn
00:58:15
the ballot count of the ballots I've not
00:58:17
seen any evidence to that effect
00:58:19
what I do see is
00:58:23
hard evidence that
00:58:26
people in this country would have
00:58:27
elected a different president who's that
00:58:31
I like who's that this is tally this is
00:58:34
child number five
00:58:36
number five she's cute but number one in
00:58:39
our hearts oh you can't say that that's
00:58:41
nice all right so continue that's your
00:58:44
name I would say
00:58:45
hey I have I'm away from my sons these
00:58:48
guys next last few days so I I you know
00:58:52
I'm happy for you hopefully we'll be
00:58:53
with our little guys soon you know what
00:58:55
I was saying is let me get to the punch
00:58:56
line the sense in which the election was
00:58:58
stolen was
00:59:00
the hunter Biden laptop story and the
00:59:02
systematic suppression of information I
00:59:04
think that there is no doubt that is no
00:59:07
doubt I think that the evidence strongly
00:59:09
suggests that Trump would have been
00:59:10
elected and not Biden had we actually
00:59:15
a voter base that had access to that
00:59:17
information
00:59:18
and I think that that is something that
00:59:19
we ought to learn from and I think that
00:59:21
it does cast a lot of doubt and
00:59:23
frustration on the legitimacy of the
00:59:26
election let me double click on that uh
00:59:28
you seem to have said on other programs
00:59:30
I've heard you at least a half dozen
00:59:31
times talk about uh deep space deep
00:59:34
state conspiracy
00:59:36
trying to
00:59:37
frame Donald Trump
00:59:39
Federal indictment of the 37 criminal
00:59:41
charges for the stolen documents
00:59:44
refusing to give them back you got the
00:59:46
New York case 34 more felony accounts
00:59:48
we're about to have another one drop on
00:59:50
January 6th you got the Georgia where he
00:59:53
tried to get people to get 10 000 more
00:59:55
votes he got the New York case where CFO
00:59:58
is going to jail
00:59:59
you got him guilty of sexual assault
01:00:02
and then you got latita James's suing
01:00:05
the Trump organization of these seven
01:00:07
are all seven a deep state conspiracy
01:00:10
I think it's it's a collective
01:00:12
anaphylactic immune response to an
01:00:16
antigen that challenged the system
01:00:19
if you do anything wrong you think well
01:00:21
seven of these cases he's scot-free and
01:00:23
it's just that I want to be really clear
01:00:25
about something I'm running for U.S
01:00:27
president in this race against Donald
01:00:29
Trump because I'm the best position to
01:00:30
lead this nation forward because I think
01:00:32
he's guilty of any of these seven I
01:00:34
would have made I would have made very
01:00:35
different judgments than he did but I
01:00:37
think criminalizing bad judgments
01:00:38
especially when done so against
01:00:40
political opponents in the midst of a
01:00:42
presidential election is an awful
01:00:44
judgment for a U.S president and the
01:00:47
Department of Justice underneath him to
01:00:48
make
01:00:49
do you think that the Department of
01:00:52
Justice and the person he put in charge
01:00:53
of it they're all conspiring and that he
01:00:56
didn't do anything wrong
01:00:58
well there's like a lot in that
01:01:00
statement right sure does he did he do
01:01:02
things that I think are
01:01:03
reprehensible that I wouldn't have done
01:01:05
yeah I think so I mean as they exist
01:01:08
absolutely do I think that Biden and a
01:01:12
lot of other politicians who have come
01:01:13
have done things that I would have done
01:01:15
differently and actually think we're
01:01:17
wrong decisions absolutely
01:01:19
but do I think that conflating a bad
01:01:21
judgment with a breakage of law is a
01:01:25
risk to our future I think it is do you
01:01:27
think he sent those people to I mean
01:01:30
January 6th I don't think he did no no I
01:01:34
mean to March down there and when he
01:01:36
told the proud boys to stand by and
01:01:38
stand back you don't think that he was
01:01:40
inciting them
01:01:41
let me just say I'm not here to
01:01:44
defend the Donald Trump's behavior I'm
01:01:46
running for U.S president I think we
01:01:47
need to but I think your opinion on it I
01:01:49
don't think yeah but my opinion on this
01:01:50
matters yes I want to be very clear
01:01:52
about the hat that I'm wearing I would
01:01:53
not have done what he did but
01:01:56
he was very clear I mean you look at the
01:01:57
transcripts you run the spies I have
01:01:59
First Amendment Scholars just to check
01:02:01
my I mean inciting violence is not
01:02:03
protected speech by the First Amendment
01:02:05
there's no sense in which when he tells
01:02:08
people to peacefully make their way to
01:02:09
the Capitol that does not meet any
01:02:11
Supreme Court test for what constitutes
01:02:13
inciting violence in this country
01:02:15
I think that let's just take let's take
01:02:17
the New York example I mean some of the
01:02:18
stuff the details actually let's take
01:02:20
the Oath Keepers one because that
01:02:21
Foundation
01:02:25
First hold on let me get my first Oath
01:02:27
Keepers founder Stuart Rhodes got 18
01:02:28
years do you think that the justice
01:02:30
department did that
01:02:31
because they're trying to frame Trump
01:02:32
and you and Trump told The Oath Keepers
01:02:35
to stand by and to stand back do you
01:02:37
think he incited The Oath Keepers yes or
01:02:39
no
01:02:40
based on the facts that I have seen I've
01:02:42
seen no evidence of that you're
01:02:43
delusional
01:02:47
stand by
01:02:50
okay so I'm also there's also an
01:02:52
indictment that hasn't been brought so
01:02:53
I've offered my opinion no the first two
01:02:55
indictments that have been brought
01:02:56
against him right sure I read them I
01:02:58
read all 49 pages in the last one I'm
01:03:00
responsive to facts yeah on the first
01:03:03
two indictments I think they're
01:03:05
absolutely politically based and I can
01:03:08
go through the if you're interested we
01:03:10
can go into the specifications
01:03:12
you know on New York right I mean I'll
01:03:15
just give you a light on each right okay
01:03:17
in New York
01:03:19
let's take a fact that it's a state
01:03:21
offense that was up charged to a felony
01:03:23
and outside the statute of limitations
01:03:25
only by tying it to an alleged federal
01:03:28
crime and what was that federal crime
01:03:31
failing to report a hush money payment
01:03:33
to a porn star as a campaign
01:03:35
contribution there would be a stronger
01:03:37
case for using and paying hush money and
01:03:40
using campaign funds to do it that that
01:03:42
was a federal campaign Finance law
01:03:43
violation then not actually counting it
01:03:46
so so many accounts that the politicized
01:03:48
prosecution against anybody else they
01:03:49
would have brought it documents case
01:03:52
a 49-page indictment read it twice that
01:03:55
does not once mention the presidential
01:03:58
records act the most relevant statute
01:04:00
that talks about what the basis is for
01:04:02
president to keep documents or not and
01:04:04
instead charges him according to I think
01:04:06
one of the most Un-American laws in U.S
01:04:08
history passed during World War One to
01:04:11
silence World War One dissenters
01:04:13
including Eugene V Debs who Eugene V
01:04:15
Debs who was actually put in prison over
01:04:17
this I have long argued that that was a
01:04:20
statute that should have long been over
01:04:22
should have been rescinded that's now
01:04:24
being used to charge a crime rather than
01:04:25
even more precise crime so I tend to be
01:04:27
very responsive maybe to the point of
01:04:29
frustration of being technical on these
01:04:31
things but I believe facts and law
01:04:33
actually matter I think that if Trump
01:04:36
was the best guy for the job I wouldn't
01:04:37
be running in this race if Ronald Reagan
01:04:39
were alive and well today I would not be
01:04:41
running in this race
01:04:44
I want to just go back to the I have a
01:04:47
question I have a question about these
01:04:49
Trump scandals
01:04:50
do you think that's one of the seven
01:04:52
well I think do you think Trump should
01:04:54
be indicted for Donald Trump Jr being
01:04:57
paid 83 000 a month to serve on the
01:04:59
board of a Ukrainian Energy company
01:05:01
despite having no energy expertise oh
01:05:04
wait that's Hunter and his personal life
01:05:06
being in crisis because he's a drug
01:05:07
addict
01:05:08
him getting that job three months after
01:05:10
his father approved a and backed a coup
01:05:14
against Ukrainian government do you
01:05:16
think that Donald Trump Jr should be
01:05:18
investigated for that and David is this
01:05:21
is this also after uh that Donald Trump
01:05:24
then sends 200 billion dollars of U.S
01:05:27
taxpayer money to that very country
01:05:28
after he's elected an office I think
01:05:31
that's the strongest of the scandals
01:05:32
I've heard so far so you believe Biden
01:05:35
is a great
01:05:37
ways what do you think of Jared Kushner
01:05:40
getting taking down 2 billion from the
01:05:42
Saudis after he walked out of the White
01:05:44
House
01:05:46
I I don't have that's not a matter that
01:05:49
I have views on so you don't have views
01:05:52
on that but you got plenty of views on
01:05:53
Trump because he's not in government
01:05:54
he's not in government okay let's move
01:05:56
on past troll because this is a great
01:05:59
example of why I'm in this race yeah I'm
01:06:01
telling you this is there something
01:06:03
about the existence of Donald Trump
01:06:04
exactly can't get away from Criminal
01:06:06
Minds that deflects our ability yeah
01:06:09
criminal behavior and trying to carry
01:06:11
forward the agenda of this country much
01:06:13
of which was Trump's own agenda so Vivek
01:06:15
in order to win this candidacy and the
01:06:18
reason I brought up the Politico uh
01:06:20
publication this morning obviously there
01:06:22
was a bit of tongue-in-cheek on the
01:06:24
effusiveness but the the key point being
01:06:26
made was you have no chance of winning
01:06:27
and that you shouldn't be in the race at
01:06:30
all
01:06:31
now look I I'd like to that was the
01:06:34
thesis of the piece what's interesting
01:06:37
is where it's coming from right it's
01:06:38
coming from The Establishment voice and
01:06:42
I think we'd like to hear just a little
01:06:44
bit around your political strategy what
01:06:46
is your intention around Building
01:06:49
Bridges and ties to the Republican
01:06:51
establishment to support your candidacy
01:06:53
here or does the or does the Republican
01:06:56
establishment largely sit on the
01:06:57
sidelines right now and wait to see who
01:07:00
emerges with this popular movement and
01:07:02
and who's out there you're obviously
01:07:03
running an incredible campaign on the
01:07:06
road very active very vocal and as
01:07:08
everyone says probably by far the most
01:07:11
articulate and most thoughtful and most
01:07:13
intelligent of the candidates in the
01:07:15
race today but lacking experience
01:07:17
lacking connections not part of the
01:07:20
establishment and as a result cast in
01:07:22
this negative light consistently by the
01:07:25
um by these sorts of writers so what is
01:07:27
your strategy to win this race given me
01:07:29
is it not important as Trump showed in
01:07:32
the last election cycle to have those
01:07:34
Republican establishment ties or are you
01:07:36
going to be building bridges and then my
01:07:38
follow-up question is if you don't win
01:07:39
what are you going to do so yeah so yeah
01:07:42
let me uh let me address the first it's
01:07:45
basically in the camp that I don't think
01:07:46
it's the voters that ultimately matter
01:07:48
not the people who have appointed
01:07:51
themselves in the reigning establishment
01:07:53
or it's not even the establishment
01:07:54
anymore it's an outdated establishment
01:07:57
that I don't think actually is going to
01:07:59
influence meaningfully the result of
01:08:01
this election except for one respect
01:08:02
which is money which I'll get back to
01:08:04
so the area where we're punching above
01:08:06
our weight right debates haven't even
01:08:09
happened yet in at least in the last
01:08:10
week I'm third in most of the national
01:08:12
polls
01:08:13
this is well ahead of even where we
01:08:15
planned to be right we planned it to be
01:08:17
in third by November December ahead of
01:08:19
the Iowa caucuses out of New Hampshire
01:08:21
overperform expectations in both of
01:08:23
those use the momentum to then win the
01:08:24
race that was broadly the strategy with
01:08:26
the debate stages the play as the way
01:08:28
where I would steadily work my way into
01:08:29
that I think we're just now on a
01:08:31
different curve where you know we might
01:08:33
be in second place by then and by a
01:08:35
smaller margin Than People expected
01:08:37
I think the debate stage is critical the
01:08:39
campaign strategy is actually to combine
01:08:41
the initial investment that because I've
01:08:44
lived the American dream I've was able
01:08:45
to make but to combine that with a true
01:08:48
Grassroots uplift we've got close to 70
01:08:51
000 maybe more I have to check the exact
01:08:52
numbers unique donors already yeah
01:08:54
former you know vice presidents or other
01:08:57
candidates that are you know well on
01:08:59
their way and struggling by some
01:09:00
measures to get to 40 000 which is the
01:09:02
threshold for the first debate so our
01:09:04
strategy is very much a Grassroots
01:09:06
strategy I've done more campaign events
01:09:08
than anybody in the Republican field and
01:09:10
so this is our strategy is very
01:09:12
Grassroots driven I said I'm punching
01:09:15
above my weight in terms of events
01:09:17
unique donations polling the one area
01:09:20
where I'm punching below weight is
01:09:23
large-scale donations so we are not
01:09:27
raising Mass numbers of large check
01:09:29
external funds yet into the campaign my
01:09:32
super Pacs or I don't have it I mean
01:09:34
whatever they're independent
01:09:35
expenditures I don't there's an entity
01:09:37
that exists out there that's been
01:09:38
affiliated with me has based on public
01:09:40
reports
01:09:42
uh tiny amounts of money compared to
01:09:45
those that are supporting and all in for
01:09:47
candidates from Tim Scott to Ron
01:09:49
DeSantis and that's also a reality right
01:09:52
and I think that that comes with
01:09:54
competitive advantages and disadvantages
01:09:55
there are two sides of the same coin I
01:09:57
think I am at Liberty
01:09:59
total Liberty I feel totally
01:10:00
unconstrained to pursue the strategy
01:10:03
that David mentioned earlier which is
01:10:04
that I'm reacting in real time to what I
01:10:07
believe have you been surprised by
01:10:11
the lack of clarity maybe of the
01:10:13
DeSantis campaign in really creating
01:10:18
a pathway
01:10:20
through Trump and if you are surprised
01:10:22
what do you think he's doing wrong if
01:10:25
you have to critique it yeah I'm not
01:10:27
surprised because you know I know him
01:10:29
and I think he's a good executor right I
01:10:31
think he has been a
01:10:33
I disagree with some other people on
01:10:35
this I think he's been quite an
01:10:36
effective governor
01:10:39
I think that when you're talking about
01:10:40
and Scott Walker in the last cycle was
01:10:42
quite an effective governor and for the
01:10:44
same reasons that people believed Scott
01:10:46
Walker was going to be the runaway
01:10:47
nominee last time around I think that
01:10:49
people naturally gravitate people think
01:10:51
they want somebody who has done
01:10:53
something as an effective executor but
01:10:56
when it comes to the U.S presidency I
01:10:58
think it's a unique role where what
01:10:59
matters is actually having a vision for
01:11:01
where we are going
01:11:03
right and so I'm not uh with I don't
01:11:06
without saying things that are
01:11:08
interpreted as being mean about somebody
01:11:09
else or not I know all of these people
01:11:10
have known them for a long time I've
01:11:12
shared stages with them over the course
01:11:14
of my woke Inc book tour and nation of
01:11:17
victims book tour
01:11:19
I'm not surprised with how things are
01:11:21
going in this race you know I said we
01:11:23
expected to be where we are in November
01:11:24
we're here in July I'm not surprised
01:11:26
that we're doing well I understand how
01:11:28
audiences across this country responded
01:11:30
to my message in wilkink I'm not
01:11:31
surprised that they're continuing to
01:11:33
respond well to Trump I think there's
01:11:34
nothing surprising about where we are in
01:11:36
this race right now and so you're not
01:11:37
surprised because because DeSantis is a
01:11:40
competent administrator but that is a
01:11:44
great job as Governor but not the bill
01:11:47
of goods for the president
01:11:51
I'm really at a point of this race
01:11:54
but to be honest with you I think I
01:11:56
think there's a lot of Truth to what you
01:11:57
said yeah don't you think part of it
01:11:58
though is that Trump has singled out
01:12:00
DeSantis as the one candidate who he's
01:12:03
gonna beat the hell out of I mean I
01:12:05
don't think so David actually I'll tell
01:12:07
you why
01:12:08
um
01:12:09
he has not attacked you Trump's actually
01:12:11
said good things about you yeah he's not
01:12:13
attacked anybody else in this race
01:12:14
actually yeah have you spent time with
01:12:17
Trump I know all these guys I know all
01:12:19
of you spend time with Trump when's the
01:12:20
last time you talked to him not a
01:12:21
serious amount of time I've spent more
01:12:22
time with DeSantis than I have with them
01:12:26
at once yeah when this is long before I
01:12:28
was running for president but um we had
01:12:30
dinner
01:12:31
and tried to build Bridges with you
01:12:35
I mean most of us when we intersect each
01:12:38
other were speaking at the same forums
01:12:39
the NRA the family leader thing that
01:12:41
Tucker did backstage we have
01:12:42
interactions with all the other
01:12:43
candidates and I'd like to think I'm
01:12:44
friendly with everybody
01:12:46
uh you know I don't know how you know I
01:12:48
haven't talked to Ron recently but I've
01:12:49
talked to him more before
01:12:51
but I think the reality is uh you know
01:12:54
so Dave what you said is definitely true
01:12:56
and I'm not in this to be a political
01:12:57
analyst right I'm in this to State what
01:13:00
my beliefs are say who I am and people
01:13:01
can vote for me or not but I actually do
01:13:03
think I I don't think that Trump's
01:13:06
commentary on the other candidates is
01:13:07
having so much of an effect I think
01:13:09
voters many people who are maybe
01:13:11
initially behind the sand is I know many
01:13:13
of them are people who are part of that
01:13:15
traditional establishment that didn't
01:13:16
want that most of them didn't want to
01:13:17
have nothing to do with Trump but
01:13:19
decided that that was the next best
01:13:20
thing so I don't think that Trump's
01:13:22
attacks are going to persuade them one
01:13:23
way or another
01:13:24
I think it comes down to the study of
01:13:26
what happened in 2016. right Scott
01:13:28
Walker great Governor really respect the
01:13:30
guy and I like what he's doing in his
01:13:32
post elected office life as well
01:13:35
but everybody has a role to play in
01:13:36
Reviving this country
01:13:38
and I think we all have to look
01:13:39
ourselves in the mirror and ask
01:13:40
ourselves how are we gonna make our
01:13:43
unique contribution
01:13:44
and I think it's going to require
01:13:46
Governors who are effective implementers
01:13:48
of a vision that makes their states
01:13:51
thrive
01:13:52
I think Governor says it's done a really
01:13:54
good job of that I think Christy gnome
01:13:55
has done a really good job of that I
01:13:57
think there are people who hopefully
01:13:59
will continue to have an impact on our
01:14:01
culture outside of government altogether
01:14:03
there's a really important role for that
01:14:05
Jason I think that's my answer to your
01:14:06
other question uh which I forgot to
01:14:09
answer can I go back to two things that
01:14:11
you mentioned just in passing but I just
01:14:13
want you to clarify your thoughts on
01:14:15
them
01:14:16
one is you said you would abolish the
01:14:18
Department of Education and I thought
01:14:20
I'd never heard anybody say that really
01:14:22
so could you just expand on that what
01:14:25
you mean and then the second
01:14:27
I'd love for you to talk about some of
01:14:29
these Supreme Court decisions that have
01:14:31
come in the last little while
01:14:33
specifically
01:14:35
the abortion debate the affirmative
01:14:36
action debate the rights of businesses
01:14:39
to
01:14:41
not service people that whose ideology
01:14:44
they disagree with and then sorry the
01:14:46
third point is maybe use that last part
01:14:48
as a jumping off point I'd love for you
01:14:49
to understand your position on lgbtq
01:14:54
the role of the trans movement what's
01:14:57
happening in schools those are the three
01:14:59
kind of big chunky areas that that I
01:15:01
think are worth talking about if you if
01:15:02
you can just give a few minutes yeah
01:15:03
there's a lot there yeah so so so let me
01:15:06
if I skip over something bring me back
01:15:08
so
01:15:10
Department of Education
01:15:12
I think the federal government is not as
01:15:14
a factual matter directly involved in
01:15:15
education I think it is a therefore a
01:15:17
deadweight waste for money to cycle from
01:15:19
the taxpayers to the Federal Department
01:15:21
of Education to then disburse those
01:15:23
funds inefficiently as they do tilting
01:15:25
the scales to four-year college degrees
01:15:27
over choices that people might have
01:15:29
otherwise made that are better choices
01:15:30
for them vocational training one year
01:15:33
two year programs using it as a cudgel
01:15:35
and this relates to the bladder issue
01:15:37
you asked about to tell Local Schools
01:15:39
they don't get that money unless they're
01:15:41
adopting what I certainly view is toxic
01:15:43
racial and gender ideology-based agendas
01:15:45
they use the money as a cudgel to do it
01:15:48
so I've said that that department that
01:15:50
spends about 80 billion dollars of
01:15:51
taxpayer money I'll shut it down tonight
01:15:54
in New Hampshire I'm laying out the
01:15:55
anatomy of exactly how we'll shut it
01:15:57
down
01:15:58
and then return that money to the states
01:16:00
to the people put it in parents pockets
01:16:02
very specifically you have to be a state
01:16:05
that has a school choice program in
01:16:06
order to receive that Department of
01:16:08
Education shutdown dividend I think that
01:16:11
if you're such a state I would also
01:16:12
believe that those States need to write
01:16:14
their teachers union teachers contracts
01:16:16
in a way that stop teachers from
01:16:19
joining teachers unions which I think
01:16:21
have been a destructive force on our
01:16:22
Public Schools if you're unionizing
01:16:24
against the public think about who
01:16:26
you're unionizing against the very kids
01:16:28
you're supposed to represent now we have
01:16:30
transparency we have choice if you teach
01:16:31
it in the classroom put it online
01:16:34
and then there's an interesting fact in
01:16:35
this country where I think you guys will
01:16:37
appreciate how bizarre this fact really
01:16:41
is
01:16:42
there's not only like a failed positive
01:16:44
correlation
01:16:45
there is a negative correlation an
01:16:48
inverse correlation
01:16:49
between how much money per student a
01:16:52
public school spends
01:16:54
and the actual outcomes that that school
01:16:57
achieves for its students
01:17:00
so in my version of school choice
01:17:02
my preferred version it would not just
01:17:04
be that parents get to get these
01:17:06
vouchers and educational savings
01:17:07
accounts to send their kids to some
01:17:08
other school that's part of the story
01:17:09
it's a first step but I think any parent
01:17:12
who moves to a school
01:17:15
that spends less per student which we
01:17:17
know based on the data is actually all
01:17:19
the SQL a better performing school as it
01:17:21
relates to achievement
01:17:23
should be able to take half the Delta
01:17:24
with them so to take Chicago or
01:17:26
Pennsylvania spending 35 40 000 per
01:17:28
student
01:17:29
15 miles away you have a school spending
01:17:31
15 to 20 000 per student I think they
01:17:34
should be able to take half the
01:17:35
difference that ten to fifteen thousand
01:17:36
dollar half that difference up to twenty
01:17:38
thousand say ten thousand dollars they
01:17:40
take with them you run the math on
01:17:42
normal investment returns you're talking
01:17:44
about a quarter Million Dollar Plus
01:17:45
graduation gift when that kid graduates
01:17:47
from 12th grade
01:17:49
so you tell me which is a better use of
01:17:51
money it's not even close
01:17:53
and I think the head of the same great
01:17:54
idea that's a great arbitrary did you
01:17:58
come up with that idea or did is that
01:17:59
synonymous actually another guy's an
01:18:02
arbitrager who's a friend but who shares
01:18:04
similar instincts and like I'm like I'm
01:18:06
a value investor I believe it's a great
01:18:09
incentive it just makes sense of the
01:18:11
world yeah okay let's move past
01:18:13
education
01:18:15
yeah I want to talk about the
01:18:16
specifically the gay and the trans issue
01:18:18
um two questions one do you think it's
01:18:20
normal to be gay
01:18:21
and do you have any problem with people
01:18:23
being gay and then no I don't know
01:18:26
so then the second of course talking
01:18:28
about trans I heard you on Meet the
01:18:30
Press save the trans was a mental
01:18:33
disorder which yeah you know it was in
01:18:35
the dsm-4 I guess or whatever the latest
01:18:37
one was yeah just to a couple years ago
01:18:40
and now it's changed so maybe explain
01:18:43
why you think differently about those
01:18:45
two things one you think it's fine to be
01:18:47
gay but you think it's a mental disorder
01:18:49
in all likelihood if people want to
01:18:51
transition
01:18:52
yeah so uh
01:18:54
you know I want to leave you with a good
01:18:56
sense of where I'm at on on these issues
01:18:57
right so
01:18:59
I think it's at least curious
01:19:02
that when you take the lgbtqia Plus
01:19:05
value set and vision for what the
01:19:09
movement stands for it does require you
01:19:11
to adopt
01:19:13
simultaneously conflicting beliefs at
01:19:15
once
01:19:16
right
01:19:17
the gay rights movement was predicated
01:19:18
on the idea which I'm quite sympathetic
01:19:20
to that the sex of the person that
01:19:22
you're attracted to is hardwired on the
01:19:24
day you're born
01:19:25
but now with the T component of that
01:19:27
same movement that now says your own
01:19:28
gender
01:19:29
is completely fluid over the course of
01:19:31
your own life and I think if we're not
01:19:33
going to observe the tension between
01:19:34
these two observations
01:19:36
I think that we're purposefully having
01:19:38
our heads stuck in the sand I think
01:19:39
what's happening in many cases is
01:19:40
somebody who claims to be trans is
01:19:42
really just gay and part of what we're
01:19:44
saying is it's not okay to begin so to
01:19:46
answer your first question part of what
01:19:48
the trans movement is effectively
01:19:49
telling people is that it's not okay to
01:19:51
be gay you know who else says that Iran
01:19:53
actually Iran is a nation that if you
01:19:55
are gay they force you to undergo gender
01:19:57
conversion surgery it's not that
01:19:58
different than what's baked into the
01:20:00
ideological premise of much of the trans
01:20:02
movement here and so
01:20:03
I just want you to come from the fact
01:20:05
there's a lot of people in the GOP will
01:20:07
offer surface level stuff here I mean
01:20:09
I've
01:20:10
spent a lot of time thinking about this
01:20:12
gender dysphoria is what I've said is a
01:20:14
mental health disorder
01:20:16
I've been very precise let's take the
01:20:18
intersex case out of it kleinfelter
01:20:20
syndrome Jacob's syndrome right
01:20:22
kleinfelter is xxy Jacob syndrome is x y
01:20:26
y these are ultra rare
01:20:28
they exist they are real for the purpose
01:20:31
of our discussion though it's under the
01:20:33
broad trans umbrella I'm going to take
01:20:34
that out of it because that's not a
01:20:36
mental health disorder that's a genetic
01:20:37
reality
01:20:39
but now let's go back to the conflicting
01:20:43
supposition there's no gay gene yet the
01:20:45
sex of the person you're attracted to we
01:20:46
accept for civil rights purposes is hard
01:20:48
right and the day you're born
01:20:49
yet there are X and Y chromosomes and
01:20:52
yet your own biological sex slash gender
01:20:54
is now completely fluid over the course
01:20:56
of your life there's a tension there and
01:20:58
I think that tension is best explained
01:21:00
by the way we've treated it for most of
01:21:02
our national history for most of our
01:21:04
medical history all the way through
01:21:05
actually I think the DSM-5 not just the
01:21:07
four as a mental health condition
01:21:10
and I think the compassionate thing to
01:21:12
do is not to affirm especially when it's
01:21:14
a kid to affirm a kid's computer
01:21:18
I think the compassionate thing to do is
01:21:19
to recognize that there's some other
01:21:21
psychological struggle manifesting
01:21:23
itself in this form
01:21:25
and it is cruel to affirm that kid's
01:21:27
confusion
01:21:29
surgery or hormone surgery hormone
01:21:32
therapy exactly so you would limit that
01:21:34
to when you're an old adult 18 years old
01:21:36
yes and you would base two women here in
01:21:38
New Hampshire literally like where I am
01:21:40
right now yeah who are in their 20s that
01:21:42
badly regret undergoing double
01:21:44
mastectomies one of them underwent a
01:21:46
hysterectomy both of them underwent
01:21:48
puberty so even if the parents and
01:21:50
doctors agreed with it you would say
01:21:52
they can't make that decision for the
01:21:53
child
01:21:54
just like you can't get a tattoo before
01:21:56
the age of 18 in most what we say is a
01:22:00
decision that you are likely
01:22:03
to regret many in many cases at least
01:22:05
likely to regret later in life we let
01:22:07
you make that decision as an adult and I
01:22:09
do believe we live in a free society as
01:22:11
an adult you're free to identify how you
01:22:13
want a free to wear what you want
01:22:17
but kids aren't the same as adults and
01:22:19
even among adults there's a difference
01:22:21
between living your life freely and
01:22:23
expecting that everybody else
01:22:25
changes their linguistic and traditional
01:22:30
understandings in sports and traditional
01:22:33
understandings in locker rooms and
01:22:36
traditional understandings and language
01:22:38
that's a difference and so I don't
01:22:40
believe in a tyranny of the majority but
01:22:41
I don't believe in attorney of the
01:22:42
minority either do you think this topic
01:22:44
is over indexed on right now and is a
01:22:46
really important topic of this
01:22:47
presidency or do you think this is like
01:22:48
some sort of culture wars thing that
01:22:50
this actually isn't that important to
01:22:52
the National discussion should be held
01:22:54
privately by currents I appreciate you
01:22:56
asking that Jason is
01:22:58
I think I feel this way about a lot of
01:22:59
the topics right from
01:23:02
the position on that I think like why is
01:23:04
this the most important topic yeah this
01:23:06
is this is interesting because it's a
01:23:09
symptom it's interesting only to the
01:23:11
extent that it is a symptom
01:23:13
of the deeper void
01:23:15
of the deeper vacuum and I think the
01:23:17
mental health epidemic is not limited to
01:23:19
gender dysphoria anxiety depression drug
01:23:21
usage fentanyl suicide these let's have
01:23:25
the conversation more holistically these
01:23:26
are symptoms of the deeper void and all
01:23:30
I care about is running through these
01:23:31
topics without somebody holding the line
01:23:33
of defense by stopping us to get to a
01:23:35
discussion about that void to say no
01:23:37
this is exactly what that kid is and
01:23:39
you're wrong to think about as a mental
01:23:40
health disorder
01:23:41
I think that's unproductive because if
01:23:43
it stops us from getting the truth over
01:23:45
the years it's been the case that young
01:23:48
people tend to orient to being
01:23:50
counter-cultural or anti-establishment
01:23:54
generally speaking it's part of the
01:23:57
psychological seasoning of a human to be
01:24:00
against the parents against the system
01:24:02
and ultimately to create Independence
01:24:04
for oneself and that's typically counter
01:24:06
to what came before it and it has
01:24:08
manifested in every generation with this
01:24:11
point of view that there is some
01:24:12
psychological torment that has taken
01:24:14
over the young people that is causing
01:24:16
them to act out from beatniks to hippies
01:24:20
to punks to goth to emo and every
01:24:23
generation had some cultural
01:24:25
representation is your point of view
01:24:27
that gender dysphoria is the current
01:24:29
manifestation of that pattern of
01:24:32
behavior that we've seen over the
01:24:33
generations
01:24:35
that's not exactly my view my view is
01:24:37
that it's not limited to young people I
01:24:39
think there's something unique going on
01:24:41
in America right now
01:24:44
it's true of all of us
01:24:46
it was some sense some of this comes
01:24:49
from self-reflection but I think it's
01:24:51
it's true for most of us
01:24:53
that were hungry
01:24:55
to be part of something bigger than
01:24:57
ourselves
01:24:58
yet we cannot even answer
01:25:01
what it means to be an American or what
01:25:03
it means to believe in God or what God
01:25:05
is
01:25:06
and we have come up with new false Idols
01:25:09
that substitute for that so you want to
01:25:11
talk about generational history I mean
01:25:12
you know Moses by the time he comes down
01:25:14
from the Mountaintop you got the golden
01:25:15
calf Israelites are lost in the desert
01:25:18
they say they want to go back and be
01:25:19
ruled by the Pharaoh yeah I think the
01:25:21
historical Trend I'm talking about is a
01:25:22
slightly different one and maybe has a
01:25:24
longer Arc to it than the one you're
01:25:26
talking about but I but am I
01:25:28
diagnosis is not specific to young
01:25:31
people it's specific to where we are in
01:25:33
a National History when like a bunch of
01:25:36
blind bats in a cave right how does a
01:25:38
bat figure out where it is it sends out
01:25:40
echolocation signals sonar signals that
01:25:43
come back and say this is where I am I
01:25:45
think we human beings are wired to do
01:25:47
the same thing
01:25:48
and the pillars the walls the fixed
01:25:51
points of truth from family to Faith to
01:25:53
patriotism to hard work to individual
01:25:55
Pride the things that used to ground us
01:25:57
when those things disappear
01:26:00
we're now sending out these signals and
01:26:01
then nothing's coming back and so we're
01:26:03
making up new pillars instead and maybe
01:26:06
one of them is a trans flag and maybe
01:26:08
one of them is a Ukraine flag and maybe
01:26:10
one of them is a climate cult and maybe
01:26:12
one of them is a racial intersectional
01:26:14
hierarchy and maybe one of them is
01:26:16
fentanyl but I think that that's
01:26:19
foreign
01:26:23
agreement with you and Jason that I
01:26:24
think we sometimes get too hung up both
01:26:26
sides maybe Republicans a lot so right
01:26:28
now on the symptoms
01:26:30
without getting to a deeper discussion
01:26:32
of the deeper cancer the deeper void
01:26:35
that we need to fill and that's what I'm
01:26:37
interested in brought up the Roe v Wade
01:26:39
issue I'm wondering what do you think is
01:26:43
the most productive path forward for the
01:26:45
country in terms of of reasonable right
01:26:49
to choose versus right to life argument
01:26:51
because you personally feel that
01:26:53
abortion should be banned am I correct
01:26:56
I am personally pro-life you're pro-life
01:26:58
be able to get an abortion under any
01:27:00
circumstances or do you have rape inside
01:27:02
of you as someone who's running for U.S
01:27:05
president and responding to the question
01:27:06
about the Supreme Court case is that Roe
01:27:08
versus Wade was correct to be overturned
01:27:10
on constitutional grounds okay fine it
01:27:12
was it was made
01:27:14
but but it leads also to the path for
01:27:16
moving forward which is that I think the
01:27:18
federal government should stay out of it
01:27:20
and so there's a discussion
01:27:22
amongst Republicans I think I'm the only
01:27:24
Republican candidate in this field who
01:27:26
has come out and said that I would not
01:27:29
support a federal abortion ban of any
01:27:31
kind on principled ground because
01:27:34
to me I am grounded in constitutional
01:27:37
principles and I think there's no legal
01:27:39
basis for the federal government to
01:27:40
legislate here the 10th Amendment says
01:27:43
that part of the American experiments we
01:27:44
have diversity
01:27:46
across States and I think this is a
01:27:48
state's issue now at the level of the
01:27:50
states
01:27:52
I'm personally a believer that unborn
01:27:54
Life Is Life I think that the pro-life
01:27:56
movement needs to we need to walk the
01:27:59
walk when it comes to being pro-life
01:28:01
what do I mean I'm pro-contraceception
01:28:03
I'm pro-adoption I'm pro-child care I'm
01:28:07
pro-more sexual responsibility for men
01:28:09
for God's sake we live in an era of
01:28:10
genetic tests we can actually put more
01:28:13
responsibility on men this doesn't have
01:28:14
to be and should not be a men's versus
01:28:16
women's rights issue and nobody on our
01:28:18
side is really talking about these
01:28:19
issues I do because I don't think this
01:28:21
has to be as divisive as we've made it
01:28:23
out to be but I can almost prove to you
01:28:25
that more people in this country share
01:28:27
my instincts than are willing to admit
01:28:29
it there's a case you know Clarence
01:28:31
Thomas brought it up of
01:28:33
pregnant woman walking down the street
01:28:34
she's assaulted the unborn child dies as
01:28:39
a result
01:28:41
I haven't met and I have many liberal
01:28:43
friends most most of my friends growing
01:28:45
up have been you know have different
01:28:46
political Persuasions than I have now
01:28:48
I haven't been a single one of my
01:28:50
liberal friends or otherwise
01:28:52
who says that that criminal does not
01:28:54
deserve liability
01:28:57
for that death and so I I just think
01:28:58
more of a leadership if one state wants
01:29:01
to ban it they can ban it if another
01:29:03
state wants to have a 24-week rule they
01:29:06
could have a 24-week rule that's that's
01:29:07
you I like other Republican candidates I
01:29:09
will not be signing a federal abortion
01:29:11
ban unconstitutional States and I remain
01:29:13
open to persuasion if some legal scholar
01:29:15
convinces me that the U.S Constitution
01:29:17
gives the federal government the
01:29:19
authority to sign that into law so be it
01:29:21
but I have not been so convinced and I
01:29:23
think many other principled
01:29:24
constitutionalists haven't been
01:29:25
convinced even though the other
01:29:27
Republican field has all best candidate
01:29:30
in this race has said they would sign
01:29:31
one what is your thought on just the
01:29:32
gross tonnage of dollars that we spend
01:29:34
on the military and
01:29:37
defense and Espionage and you know
01:29:40
internal external security and then when
01:29:44
it goes bump up against
01:29:45
civil liberties just give us your kind
01:29:48
of framing on how you think about those
01:29:49
sets of issues around National level
01:29:51
security but where and personal personal
01:29:54
privacy so I'm uh I I for more of my
01:29:57
life than not identified as a
01:29:59
Libertarian than a conservative and I
01:30:01
still have all of those libertarian
01:30:02
instincts in my core it's just that I
01:30:05
care about more issues than Libertarians
01:30:07
care about because libertarianism is all
01:30:08
about the relationship between the state
01:30:10
and the individual and I actually do
01:30:12
care about culture and the fabric of a
01:30:14
society outside of government too it's a
01:30:16
long way of saying I'm deeply skeptical
01:30:18
of the National Security establishment I
01:30:21
was deeply skeptical of the Iraq War at
01:30:23
the time I think I am today in
01:30:24
retrospect I was deeply skeptical that
01:30:27
prisoners in Guantanamo Bay should have
01:30:28
been denied constitutional due process
01:30:30
rights
01:30:32
when that's exactly what enshrines the
01:30:34
justice system that we otherwise believe
01:30:35
in I would pardon Julian Assange I would
01:30:39
pardon Edward Snowden I've committed to
01:30:42
a long list of Pardons of people who
01:30:44
have taken steps to expose corruption
01:30:46
that we otherwise would not have seen in
01:30:49
this country
01:30:50
and I think part of the reason why is
01:30:52
there's a weird corporate analogy here
01:30:54
we're talking about companies and
01:30:55
finding their purpose in coinbase I
01:30:58
think there's a version of that going on
01:30:59
in the US Military
01:31:00
I think the US military has lost its
01:31:02
sense of purpose actually
01:31:05
and so my view is the purpose of the US
01:31:07
military is to secure Americans on
01:31:09
American soil to make sure that we when
01:31:12
necessary win Wars and more importantly
01:31:13
deter Wars
01:31:15
and I think part of what you see in the
01:31:17
loss of you know people complain about
01:31:18
wokeness in the military Etc these are
01:31:19
against symptoms of a deeper loss of
01:31:22
purpose of an institution not that much
01:31:23
different than a company
01:31:25
but my view is I'm not in the same way
01:31:27
with the immigration debate I'm I don't
01:31:29
engage in this what's the cap you know
01:31:32
higher or lower it's the wrong debate
01:31:34
Merit purpose what are we achieving I
01:31:36
feel the same way about the military
01:31:37
it's not a higher lower discussion it's
01:31:39
a what are we doing discussion and I
01:31:42
think there is a legitimate case for the
01:31:44
U.S to have and continue to have the
01:31:46
strongest military in the world
01:31:48
but I think that deputizing that
01:31:50
military to fight Wars that are really
01:31:53
deflection tactics often for our own
01:31:54
ailments at home I think it has been a
01:31:57
mistake and we're at risk of making
01:31:59
those same mistakes again right now most
01:32:01
pertinently in Ukraine unless we learn
01:32:03
from those past mistakes I want to ask
01:32:05
you about the division within the
01:32:07
Republican party on this specifically
01:32:09
Ukraine so at turning point which you
01:32:11
just spoke at and I think you did very
01:32:12
well in the straw poll there you had
01:32:15
Tucker interviewing Mike Pence
01:32:18
asking him why should we prioritize
01:32:20
Ukraine over our own cities that are
01:32:24
increasingly broken down you've got
01:32:26
homeless people living on the streets
01:32:28
you've got this price of drug addiction
01:32:30
you've got rampant crime you've got
01:32:32
schools that are terrible and yet
01:32:35
Ukraine seems to be this fixation of the
01:32:39
unit party in Washington and and Pence
01:32:41
gave this totally dunderheaded answer or
01:32:44
something like that's not my concern
01:32:46
which
01:32:47
I guess his apologist said afterwards
01:32:49
that well no he was talking about
01:32:51
something else he wasn't saying that
01:32:53
American cities weren't as concerned
01:32:55
which even if you grant that was the
01:32:57
case means that he wasn't really paying
01:32:59
attention to Tucker's question
01:33:02
but then you also had Tim Scott say
01:33:05
something it was definitely a better
01:33:07
phrase than what Penn said but basically
01:33:09
said that he thought it was a good idea
01:33:11
for us to be giving all this money to
01:33:13
Ukraine because degrading
01:33:15
Russia's military was a good deal for
01:33:17
the United States you know by which
01:33:19
degrade I assume means killing Russian
01:33:22
boys and you've heard Lindsey Graham say
01:33:25
this sort of thing then I had this
01:33:27
Republican pollster named Patrick
01:33:30
raffini
01:33:31
who I didn't really know before but he's
01:33:34
apparently a republican pollster he's
01:33:35
got Slava Ukrainian his bio I'm not
01:33:38
quite sure what's motivating that but he
01:33:40
tweeted at me saying that Ukraine is
01:33:42
like number 17 on a list of GOP voter
01:33:44
priorities despite efforts by the likes
01:33:47
of Carlson and sax to make it a thing
01:33:49
notice how it almost never gets brought
01:33:51
up on the trail unless Tucker is there
01:33:53
my response to him was to post a quote
01:33:57
from Mitch McConnell
01:33:58
saying that Ukraine is the number one
01:34:01
priority of the GOP right I'm like
01:34:04
you're making my point for me I know
01:34:05
that it's number 17 in the eyes of
01:34:08
Voters in our party in terms of what
01:34:11
they think we should be focused on but
01:34:13
it's number one in the minds of Mitch
01:34:15
McConnell and Pence and Scott and Nikki
01:34:19
Haley and you know Lindsey Graham these
01:34:22
people are obsessed with this idea
01:34:24
so I guess you know a what is your
01:34:27
reaction to that b how are we going to
01:34:29
change this I mean it just seems like
01:34:31
there's something fundamentally broken
01:34:32
in our party
01:34:33
when the base understands that we should
01:34:36
not be focused on Ukraine focused on our
01:34:39
own borders our own cities as opposed to
01:34:42
some Far Away lands borders and cities
01:34:44
and then also in that same Turning Point
01:34:46
poll
01:34:48
95 of the attendees at a conference
01:34:51
were opposed to U.S involvement in
01:34:54
Ukraine it was the single highest number
01:34:57
for anything they pulled on I think
01:34:59
Trump got like an 85 approval opposition
01:35:02
to Ukraine Got 95 so clearly there is a
01:35:05
fundamental divide between what the
01:35:07
establishment or Elite of the party
01:35:09
thinks and what the base thinks yep what
01:35:12
is your explanation for that and how
01:35:13
does that ever get solved
01:35:15
I mean how are we going to fix it I'm
01:35:17
going to give you a facile answer David
01:35:18
it has to do with
01:35:20
why we're doing what we're doing
01:35:23
I want to be elected the next president
01:35:24
I think I will be and I think reflecting
01:35:26
the will of the people in the way this
01:35:28
country is governed is part of how our
01:35:31
system is actually supposed to work both
01:35:33
in the primary and in the general
01:35:34
election and so United we're sitting in
01:35:37
different seats but I'm sitting in the
01:35:38
seat that I am now precisely because I
01:35:41
think somebody needs to actually step up
01:35:42
and fix it when most of the Republican
01:35:44
party has locked Stock and Barrel for
01:35:47
all of their criticisms abide none the
01:35:49
most important foreign policy matter of
01:35:51
right now have Lock Stock and Barrel
01:35:54
adopted what is effectively the Biden
01:35:56
position which is mysterious and it's
01:35:57
interesting now I think that it has
01:36:00
become a
01:36:02
a sort of a
01:36:05
a fixation not because these candidates
01:36:08
I think have arrived at this Viewpoint
01:36:11
independently through reasoning their
01:36:13
way to it but just understanding that
01:36:15
that's what they are supposed to say in
01:36:17
the tradition of a party that was
01:36:20
historically based on projecting hard
01:36:22
power through deterring the USSR
01:36:25
not recognizing the fact that people
01:36:28
sometimes seem to forget this fact the
01:36:29
USSR doesn't exist anymore and NATO
01:36:31
which is created to contain the USSR has
01:36:34
now expanded far more after the fall of
01:36:36
the USSR than it did before which is
01:36:39
itself a symptom of a Republican party
01:36:41
that still sometimes
01:36:45
militarism it's a muscle memory what
01:36:48
about the influence of the
01:36:49
military-industrial complex do you think
01:36:51
somehow like it's related to donors like
01:36:53
what do you mean yeah so I'm I'm a
01:36:57
I'm very open-minded to and I'm getting
01:36:59
the signal that so we're going to this
01:37:01
um event where we're meeting with
01:37:03
parents of
01:37:05
kids who have died as a consequence of
01:37:08
Fentanyl and I don't want to keep them
01:37:10
waiting longer than uh than we need to
01:37:13
but
01:37:14
if you guys are down to do this again
01:37:15
this has been a lot of fun this has been
01:37:17
great we gave us 90 minutes it's
01:37:18
fantastic we can let me just answer
01:37:20
David's last Dave what was your last
01:37:22
question wait no no I have a better
01:37:23
question just that last question
01:37:25
number one are you vaccinated against
01:37:27
covid number two what do you think of
01:37:30
fauci
01:37:31
and what could we have done differently
01:37:33
I mean you're a man of science so I'm
01:37:35
just curious
01:37:36
what you think about the whole thing
01:37:37
great question so I am vaccinated
01:37:39
against covid had I had the facts that I
01:37:42
do now as a young thankfully healthy
01:37:44
male I would not have actually chosen to
01:37:47
get vaccinated
01:37:48
I think that Anthony fauci betrays
01:37:51
science by
01:37:54
substituting the scientific method which
01:37:56
depends on free speech and open debate
01:37:58
and inquiry with authority which is
01:38:01
actually fundamentally anti-scientific
01:38:02
at its core and I think one of our main
01:38:05
lessons to have learned from the
01:38:06
pandemic and I hope we do learn it in
01:38:09
the future is that it is precisely in
01:38:11
times of emergency that Free Speech
01:38:12
becomes most important I think if we had
01:38:15
been able to debate in the open the
01:38:17
merits of lockdowns for children we
01:38:19
would not have locked down our schools I
01:38:21
think we had been able to debate the
01:38:22
open what the origin of the pandemic was
01:38:24
a lab and Wuhan appears to be the
01:38:26
overwhelming it's the truth I mean we we
01:38:28
know that that's exactly the most
01:38:30
likely to correct explanation it's in
01:38:32
the name
01:38:33
it really is but but it was a name you
01:38:35
couldn't have said at that you couldn't
01:38:37
call it you couldn't name the
01:38:38
Unspeakable City for which the virus
01:38:40
originated so I think one of the top
01:38:41
lessons is free speech and open debate
01:38:43
the path the truth runs through that
01:38:45
science depends on the free exchange of
01:38:46
ideas that's who we are and the beauty
01:38:49
is our country is founded on that very
01:38:51
principle it's in the First Amendment
01:38:53
for a reason
01:38:54
we'll let you get to your event but I
01:38:57
just want to say thank you for being
01:38:58
incredibly Dynamic and open and honest
01:39:03
it's really great to have
01:39:06
guys like you to talk to
01:39:08
it's I appreciate it guys if you guys
01:39:10
want to do it again I had a lot of fun
01:39:11
too yeah
01:39:12
thanks for not being like political
01:39:15
politicians speak and being so honest
01:39:17
and taking on every single topic we
01:39:19
asked you every single topic I think you
01:39:22
did a great job I appreciate it guys
01:39:24
appreciate you take care guys thank you
01:39:26
Vic we didn't talk about this did you
01:39:28
guys mention where you are or is that
01:39:31
based on the number of buttons here I
01:39:33
can tell you I'm in uh you know what I
01:39:35
can't dox myself because you know did I
01:39:39
ever tell you the story about two years
01:39:40
ago when I was in Italy and the stalkers
01:39:42
you [ __ ] told everybody you were
01:39:44
there no I didn't everybody where I was
01:39:47
at chamots beach club
01:39:49
it was ridiculous I took a picture of
01:39:51
the ocean and in the corner of one of
01:39:54
the towers was the logo of chamonte's
01:39:55
beach club
01:39:57
and some guys
01:39:58
found that logo on the towel did a
01:40:01
Google image reverse search found the
01:40:04
beach club
01:40:05
that chamat's part of and then showed up
01:40:08
at the beach club while I was drinking
01:40:09
150 Dollar Bottles per second on two
01:40:12
months account to pitch me their startup
01:40:14
so I don't want to say exactly where I
01:40:16
am but I'm in Italy where are you guys
01:40:18
me and Zach are at shouting distance
01:40:19
from each other we're about to see each
01:40:21
other after this did I ever tell you
01:40:22
guys the story about last summer when I
01:40:24
was in Italy chamoth and I were walking
01:40:27
down the streets of Milan yeah do you
01:40:30
ever tell the story no no no okay this
01:40:32
was like the last time that Jake Allen
01:40:34
Friedberg were having a major Feud and
01:40:36
it looked like the Pod was maybe about
01:40:37
to break up so I mean for real breakup
01:40:40
number one yeah this is Breakup number
01:40:42
one remember two or three I don't know
01:40:45
but you guys are definitely feuding so
01:40:47
we're walking down the street and all of
01:40:48
a sudden somebody stops us and he this
01:40:53
is like a fan from I don't know like
01:41:04
and he stops Us in the street and takes
01:41:06
a photo and the whole thing and as we're
01:41:09
walking away
01:41:10
jamas says we better make this thing
01:41:12
work because I like being famous
01:41:14
you can't go back
01:41:17
you guys
01:41:19
you guys grew this up because I like
01:41:20
being it's a delicate balance fame or
01:41:24
being right
01:41:26
for people who didn't get the joke last
01:41:28
week I love Freeburg I'm trying to
01:41:30
develop a deep meaningful relationship
01:41:32
with framework I love framework what do
01:41:33
we think of vivac let's get back to the
01:41:34
you know brass tacks here RFK versus
01:41:37
vivac we've now had two of the top five
01:41:39
candidates and Chris Christie's agreed
01:41:41
to come on the mooch put me in touch I
01:41:43
have to be honest with you RFK and he
01:41:45
are more similar than they are different
01:41:47
on a lot of topics
01:41:50
you know the Contours I think are are
01:41:52
different on a few very specific ones
01:41:54
obviously but
01:41:57
it's like these Outsider candidates I
01:41:59
think have like a they're just they're a
01:42:01
breath of fresh air because I think and
01:42:03
Vivek said it right the Heat and RFK
01:42:05
they have nothing to lose so they just
01:42:08
tell you what they think they don't have
01:42:09
to memorize anything because what they
01:42:11
think is what they think and so you just
01:42:13
consistently get this cream of
01:42:14
Consciousness and the more and more I
01:42:17
hear from these kinds of candidates the
01:42:19
more and more they make sense and
01:42:21
juxtaposed Against The Establishment
01:42:23
candidates it's very Stark
01:42:25
would you consider Trump Saks um you
01:42:29
know as being the sort of precursor to
01:42:30
these two non-traditional candidates so
01:42:32
now we have three non-traditional
01:42:33
candidates in the mix Trump Vivek
01:42:37
and RFK and they all are shoot from the
01:42:39
hip here's what I honestly think and
01:42:41
maybe more moderate and pragmatic in
01:42:44
terms of their positions well sure I
01:42:46
mean Trump ran for office for president
01:42:49
without having ever run for office
01:42:51
before and so yeah as a Democrat he's a
01:42:53
Democrat who ran as a republican too
01:42:55
amen and he moved the Republican party
01:42:57
in a bunch of ways that were totally new
01:43:00
Trump's lasting impact I think is going
01:43:02
to be on the Republican party I mean he
01:43:04
moved the Republican party from an open
01:43:06
borders completely free trade
01:43:10
sort of party warmongering mongering
01:43:13
knee-jerk militarism neocon to being
01:43:16
anti-war wanting to have strong borders
01:43:19
being at least skeptical of trade at
01:43:21
least with China if not other countries
01:43:23
and I think he hasn't wanted to mess
01:43:24
with entitlements he understands that's
01:43:26
the third rail and very much against the
01:43:28
Paul Ryan wanting to
01:43:31
touch those at least in a non-bipartisan
01:43:34
way I think that for the Republicans to
01:43:36
take on those issues by themselves I
01:43:39
think he understands a suicide they lose
01:43:40
votes when you start taking on
01:43:42
entitlements and I think that what Trump
01:43:44
also did which is really interesting is
01:43:45
that it cascaded a wave of
01:43:48
self-reflection in a lot of other
01:43:51
Western countries so Italy's more right
01:43:53
as a result the UK went right Spain
01:43:56
looks like it's about to tip right the
01:43:58
Dutch actually just lost their election
01:43:59
because of national border issues or you
01:44:03
know that they dissolved their
01:44:04
government so
01:44:06
there's like a real clear nationalism
01:44:10
would you say it's more of the
01:44:11
Nationalist inflection as opposed to the
01:44:13
globalist I mean
01:44:15
that's right the Overton window I think
01:44:17
changed quite a bit with Trump in the
01:44:18
mix because now you actually had this
01:44:20
much more America First nationalist
01:44:22
orientation as the alternative to this
01:44:24
sort of globalist whether it's
01:44:26
neoliberalism or neoconservatism
01:44:29
those two things have more in common
01:44:31
with each other than they do with this
01:44:33
more nationalist populist approach right
01:44:37
Freebird what did you think what was
01:44:38
your take oh I mean RFK obviously
01:44:40
concerns you a bit because of the I
01:44:43
don't want to use the conspiracy word
01:44:44
but let's just call it maybe you know
01:44:47
his open-minded to
01:44:49
he's open-minded to different theories
01:44:51
so where do you stand on RFK in relation
01:44:54
to vivec today
01:44:55
Freeburg obviously I I think he's
01:44:57
crafted his narrative in a way that can
01:45:00
be broadly appealing and as I mentioned
01:45:03
in our Tech stream I think also appeals
01:45:04
to the Trump base in a way it's a very
01:45:07
smart campaign I think that the strategy
01:45:12
the the positioning
01:45:14
Everything feels like it's hitting the
01:45:18
mood of the moment
01:45:20
and you know I I would argue like you
01:45:23
could probably call any election
01:45:26
cycle any campaign one of two things
01:45:28
it's a promise of what can I do for you
01:45:30
or how can I go and destroy the system
01:45:33
that did bad for you and
01:45:37
Trump
01:45:38
RFK and by the way the higher the
01:45:40
magnitude of that statement
01:45:43
the more appealing the candidate is I
01:45:45
think vivec is doing a great job hitting
01:45:47
a reasonably High magnitude on the you
01:45:50
know the system has failed us we need to
01:45:52
go and fix these problems kind of moment
01:45:54
and and it's it's really good but I
01:45:56
think it's really good for
01:45:59
call it the audience that's engaged in
01:46:02
the intellectual debate around it not
01:46:04
necessarily would you vote for vivec at
01:46:07
this point I need to spend a little more
01:46:08
time with DeSantis to be honest
01:46:11
and understand where he sits I I
01:46:13
obviously have deep concerns about Biden
01:46:16
what would your concerns on Biden be his
01:46:19
cognitive issues or the SP out of
01:46:21
control spending I I don't think he's
01:46:23
running the country and I think that
01:46:24
those who are
01:46:27
there's absolutely no accountability and
01:46:28
discipline in what's going on with
01:46:30
respect to spending as I mentioned vivec
01:46:32
did not appeal to me in resolving that
01:46:33
concern either by the way he thinks
01:46:35
we're going to grow our way out of it
01:46:36
which is part of the premise of modern
01:46:38
monetary Theory which I think is a flood
01:46:41
so you still don't have a candidate in
01:46:43
terms of controlling spending yeah
01:46:45
yeah look I think the problem with Vivek
01:46:47
is he's not going to be appealing to the
01:46:49
masses because he's so smart and so
01:46:51
articulate
01:46:53
that it doesn't have the the Trump
01:46:56
Basics the Trump Basics are insult the
01:46:59
bad guy call yourself the best thing in
01:47:01
the world make jokes and people might be
01:47:04
over that I think people might be over
01:47:06
it I don't know good job are people over
01:47:08
it
01:47:10
The Bullying the name calling the the
01:47:13
bombastic Trump nature do you think
01:47:15
people are over it you think that's
01:47:16
going to burn people out this election
01:47:17
cycle
01:47:18
well not if you look at the polls
01:47:20
they're not on the Republican party I
01:47:22
think in the general they might I mean
01:47:24
look I think right now it looks like
01:47:26
we're on track to have a Biden Trump
01:47:28
rematch and right now Biden probably
01:47:31
looks like he's going to win barring a
01:47:34
recession happening or the Ukrainian
01:47:36
side collapsing in in the war right
01:47:39
I mean I mean that indictment dropping
01:47:42
sounds pretty you know like another
01:47:44
bombshell so do you think there's any
01:47:46
chance
01:47:47
no no no no no okay so what's your
01:47:51
favorite moment you know from this
01:47:52
discussion was were there was there a
01:47:54
standout moment for your sacks we
01:47:55
thought sorry I want to hear yeah moth
01:47:58
would you vote for him
01:47:59
are you still in rfk's Camp are you kind
01:48:01
of
01:48:03
still open-minded about everything I
01:48:05
wasn't sure what his campaign was about
01:48:06
and
01:48:09
and I come away
01:48:12
pretty meaningfully intrigued about what
01:48:14
he had to say
01:48:16
um I think that there are some
01:48:17
fundamental issues
01:48:18
that RFK has me on that I wanted bevec
01:48:22
to own and he he flirted with them but
01:48:25
he didn't quite own them such as
01:48:29
I think that the just like the
01:48:32
deconstruction of the
01:48:33
military-industrial complex was is so
01:48:35
definitive in RFK and it was it was
01:48:38
almost quite there with the vet but not
01:48:40
quite there so I wish he would I wish he
01:48:41
would own that
01:48:43
I think that the deconstruction of the
01:48:45
Department of Education I need to think
01:48:47
more about about some of his ideas are
01:48:49
frankly more compelling the pro-life
01:48:52
pro-choice thing I think is very
01:48:55
complicated and I think you can go to
01:48:58
this place of saying let the states
01:48:59
choose but I I'm just not sure whether
01:49:03
that's the right ultimate solution
01:49:06
and you know proposing some federal
01:49:08
legislation or would you want to end up
01:49:10
on that you would want to end up like
01:49:11
Europe like a certain number of weeks
01:49:12
federally and then maybe some local laws
01:49:14
around abortion and right to choose I
01:49:16
think that
01:49:18
there is just like you you have to
01:49:20
fundament if you believe in personal
01:49:22
freedom
01:49:25
I think having an arbitrary definition
01:49:27
of what a person is and then what that
01:49:29
freedom means
01:49:30
to me is already the slippery slope and
01:49:33
so I have a real issue with that but I
01:49:35
also agree with him about the actual
01:49:38
decay of American society you know the
01:49:40
lack of religious institutions and the
01:49:43
lack of family and purpose those two
01:49:45
things above all others I think are
01:49:48
tearing this country apart because
01:49:50
people substitute something for it was
01:49:52
his point right it's leaving people
01:49:54
incredibly empty and so I just think
01:49:57
that you have to have some of these
01:49:58
fundamental protections sex what were
01:50:00
your favorite moments during this or or
01:50:02
moments where you think he stood out or
01:50:04
he shine at moments where you maybe have
01:50:06
some fundamental disagreement
01:50:08
well okay there's a few issues let me um
01:50:11
respond to so in terms of the vague
01:50:14
versus RFK Jr I think where Kennedy
01:50:16
really shines is like jamas said when he
01:50:19
talks about the military industrial
01:50:20
complex and I would say more generally
01:50:24
RFK has this critique about regulatory
01:50:27
capture which he describes as the
01:50:29
marriage of state power and corporate
01:50:31
greed and included in that is what's
01:50:34
happened to the FDA and big Pharma and
01:50:37
the whole government's response on covid
01:50:39
and then he wraps in censorship
01:50:42
as being the way that this rfk's
01:50:45
thoughts are very marriage of corporate
01:50:47
greed and state power the way it defends
01:50:49
itself that and that's unacceptable so I
01:50:51
think like on those issues I don't think
01:50:54
anybody speaks as deeply as RFK Jr now
01:50:58
when it comes to the list if you're to
01:51:00
like list out all the issues and where
01:51:03
Vivek is and where I am it's a pretty
01:51:05
close match I mean I'm not aligned with
01:51:07
him completely on every issue but I
01:51:09
think it would be pretty close and I do
01:51:11
really appreciate where he's coming from
01:51:13
on Ukraine he's not afraid to just come
01:51:17
right out and say the truth which is
01:51:18
this is not an important enough American
01:51:20
interest to be spending hundreds of
01:51:22
billions a year on I wish we had more
01:51:24
time what an amazing moment let's
01:51:25
actually delve into that and
01:51:27
particularly I wanted him to explain
01:51:28
what was happening in the party because
01:51:30
there is a divide within the party
01:51:32
between these like oxygenarian and sort
01:51:35
of more establishment Republicans like
01:51:37
McConnell like Scott like pens the war
01:51:40
machine the War Machine and then people
01:51:42
like him and Trump and and you put Trump
01:51:44
in this category too who are resisting
01:51:46
that so I would have liked to hear more
01:51:48
about that what did you think of the
01:51:50
moment where I kind of pinned him and I
01:51:51
said would you you so you wouldn't
01:51:53
defend Ukraine but you would defend
01:51:55
Taiwan and he said yes for the next five
01:51:58
years I would defend Taiwan because of
01:52:00
the semiconductor I mean that I've never
01:52:02
heard a candidate say something that
01:52:04
fragmatic here's my interpretation
01:52:07
well it is pragmatic what he's basically
01:52:10
saying is that America right now is
01:52:12
dependent on these chips these very
01:52:14
sophisticated high-tech chips so many
01:52:15
conductor chips and not just like the
01:52:17
low end ones the high-end chips that are
01:52:19
made in Taiwan and that is a vital
01:52:21
American interest and until we alleviate
01:52:24
ourselves or wean ourselves off that
01:52:26
dependency by making them ourselves
01:52:28
we're securing some other Supply then we
01:52:31
need Taiwan and so therefore we cannot
01:52:33
allow it to fall into Chinese ants I'm
01:52:34
saying a lot more than he did but it's
01:52:36
kind of an argument like saying chips is
01:52:39
the new oil and as long as this is a
01:52:42
critical input into our economy we have
01:52:44
to secure our supply I can understand
01:52:46
the difference being Bush never said
01:52:48
we're going to the Middle East for oil
01:52:49
he said we're going there for democracy
01:52:51
so that that's what I thought was like
01:52:52
the very candid moment there sir yeah
01:52:54
but what always happens is that when
01:52:56
America has a vital interest you always
01:52:59
cloak it in Liberal rhetoric about
01:53:02
rights and freedom and democracy and
01:53:04
that kind of thing democracy but what's
01:53:06
frequently driving the decision is
01:53:08
American interests underneath he's being
01:53:10
explicit about it what he's basically
01:53:12
saying is as long as Americans yeah as
01:53:15
long as America's got this dependency
01:53:16
and we need Taiwan we better defend it
01:53:19
and protect it from falling into Chinese
01:53:21
hands but once we don't have that
01:53:23
interest then we don't
01:53:25
I can understand that position it's wild
01:53:27
it was wild I mean refreshing for me and
01:53:29
actually was a highlight of the
01:53:30
discussion there's a couple other things
01:53:32
he touched on so we talked about the
01:53:33
other candidates
01:53:35
I think he's being not disingenuous but
01:53:39
maybe a little bit unfair to the
01:53:40
scientists I think there's no question
01:53:42
that DeSantis alone has been singled out
01:53:45
by Trump and not just Trump but Trump
01:53:47
surrogates to be relentlessly bashed on
01:53:50
and this happens on social media it
01:53:52
happens in speeches and talks all this
01:53:54
kind of stuff so they are going after
01:53:55
the Sanchez and that has an effect
01:53:58
for a reason he's number two right and
01:54:00
Trump clearly has pegged him as the
01:54:03
biggest threat and that's why they're
01:54:04
targeting him so that does have an
01:54:07
impact the advantage that someone like
01:54:09
Vivek has in a way is that he doesn't
01:54:12
have a record as an elected official and
01:54:14
so he can just go out there and speak
01:54:15
freely on these issues and like I
01:54:19
described on the show with him he goes
01:54:21
out there and inserts himself in the
01:54:23
conversation when it makes his issue is
01:54:25
going viral he jumps in and I think it's
01:54:28
very important that he's doing it so
01:54:30
quickly because if you're a candidate
01:54:32
and you wait till the next day
01:54:35
moves on you missed it right so yeah
01:54:39
he's timing it perfectly so he hits The
01:54:41
Sweet Spot there's only one way to do it
01:54:43
which is not to have surrogates not to
01:54:45
have a process like because
01:54:49
we're thinking it yeah well it's the
01:54:51
same thing with our portfolio companies
01:54:52
right they run it through like all these
01:54:54
PR people and like a PR agency and it
01:54:56
gets reviewed and by the time by the
01:54:59
time it goes through his 10th draft it's
01:55:01
too late it doesn't go viral so he's
01:55:03
running a social media campaign and it's
01:55:04
very effective now I think that
01:55:07
DeSantis is running a different kind of
01:55:08
campaign DeSantis actually has a record
01:55:10
I think it's a fantastically successful
01:55:12
record as being the most successful
01:55:14
governor in the country running the most
01:55:17
successful state in the country so he's
01:55:19
out there with this idea that listen
01:55:21
let's make America Florida yes so that's
01:55:25
what he's campaigning on and so he is
01:55:27
going out there with kind of a
01:55:29
pre-determined agenda and a person
01:55:32
speech A playbook and it's different
01:55:35
than someone like Vivek who's letting
01:55:37
the issues come to him and then he's
01:55:39
responding as the issues come up
01:55:42
Vivek is living off the land and and
01:55:45
that is all of that is free media for
01:55:47
him it's free it's earned media and
01:55:49
Trump did the same thing in 2016 right
01:55:52
every day he would figure out like what
01:55:55
are the issues today and he could go out
01:55:56
and speak about them and you know you go
01:55:58
all the way back to
01:55:59
Pat Buchanan working for Richard Nixon
01:56:02
back in I think this is a 72 election
01:56:03
something like that where every morning
01:56:05
Buchanan and there's a couple other
01:56:07
speechwriters that opened the newspaper
01:56:08
and find an issue or two and they would
01:56:12
go to Nixon and say Here's your talking
01:56:14
points you know and so they would find
01:56:16
an issue that back in those days was
01:56:18
going viral and have the candidate speak
01:56:20
to it so they were Nimble and I think
01:56:23
that's what they were doing and if you
01:56:24
want to go viral in the social media
01:56:26
area that's what you have to do you have
01:56:27
to lean into the issues where people are
01:56:30
talking about that day and and this is
01:56:33
the thing is that I think Vivek knows
01:56:34
how to do that Trump clearly knows how
01:56:36
to do it RFK knows how to do it RFK
01:56:39
definitely knows how to do it there's
01:56:40
social media every day they're trusting
01:56:43
topic native and that's the difference
01:56:44
Freeburg did you have a highlight or a
01:56:46
great moment or two from vivec things
01:56:48
that made you go huh I really appreciate
01:56:51
this person or candidate during the
01:56:53
discussion what I appreciated was that
01:56:56
we didn't see him like fall down on any
01:56:59
topics and I think that his
01:57:03
ability to go through the full discourse
01:57:06
with us for however long we went 90
01:57:08
minutes yeah hour 40 says a lot you know
01:57:11
RFK junior did the same but again it's a
01:57:14
stark juxtaposition
01:57:16
from what I have seen Biden do in terms
01:57:18
of interview formats he his edited his
01:57:20
interviews are edited they're short and
01:57:23
so yeah to be able to have this breadth
01:57:25
but also have the data and be able to
01:57:27
pull it from the top of its head and not
01:57:28
have speaking notes we gave him no
01:57:30
questions ahead of time there's no
01:57:31
agenda of course not and I think it's
01:57:33
great to see a candidate
01:57:35
who can engage in that level of
01:57:37
discourse which was
01:57:39
important and impressive for me I just
01:57:41
hope it's broadly appealing and this by
01:57:43
the way I just want to repeat something
01:57:44
I've said many times in the past
01:57:46
there are two things I hate about
01:57:47
politics
01:57:49
besides the relationship to a growing
01:57:52
government
01:57:53
the first is that people pick Politics
01:57:56
as a career and I think that that's
01:57:58
ridiculous I think people in a democracy
01:58:01
should have a private life and then they
01:58:03
should rotate into being civil servants
01:58:06
and go and service
01:58:09
that's right and so they were you know
01:58:11
had they had their jobs and their
01:58:12
businesses and everything and they would
01:58:13
rotate in and then they would rotate out
01:58:15
of government the fact that people can
01:58:16
be a politician for 30 years is
01:58:19
ridiculous and I think it leads to all
01:58:20
of the disincentives that have driven to
01:58:22
a large government what I appreciate
01:58:24
about Vivek and RFK Jr
01:58:27
is that they come at this from
01:58:30
and even Trump they come at this from
01:58:31
private life and they take their turn in
01:58:34
government and rotate out and that's why
01:58:36
I I did not get him to answer the
01:58:38
question around what would he do besides
01:58:39
being president if it didn't work out
01:58:40
what's he going to do next the second
01:58:42
thing I I don't like about Paul by the
01:58:44
way they're just on that point there's a
01:58:45
lot of speculation about that within
01:58:47
Republican circles this is something I
01:58:49
could we just didn't have time to get
01:58:50
into vice president let me just finish
01:58:52
it yeah let me just finish and then
01:58:53
we'll talk about it so sorry yeah let's
01:58:55
come back to it but the second thing is
01:58:56
just money in politics and I hate that
01:58:58
you can raise money and get votes just
01:59:01
the general concept that you buy ad
01:59:03
space and that you get people to change
01:59:05
their vote I think is the most I love
01:59:08
that yeah but I think it's so [ __ ] up
01:59:10
but what I like about what we just did
01:59:13
is we actually had a conversation with
01:59:15
the candidate and people can just listen
01:59:16
to the conversation that's the Old Town
01:59:18
Square that sax talks about that doesn't
01:59:20
exist anymore because everything is
01:59:22
chopped up and been sold as media bytes
01:59:24
on paid streams whereas what we just did
01:59:26
is a free conversation with a guy that
01:59:27
anyone can tune in and listen to and
01:59:29
learn about him and that's what I found
01:59:31
most compelling is we had a real
01:59:33
conversation instead of watching a 30
01:59:34
second advice what's the rumor Saxy poop
01:59:37
yeah so sorry go ahead sex the knock on
01:59:39
the vague is that he's basically a trump
01:59:41
surrogate and I mean Trump has said good
01:59:44
things about him Trump likes him to be
01:59:46
out there clearly I mean Trump has all
01:59:47
but said that so the idea is that Vivek
01:59:50
is out there and initially he's doing
01:59:52
this less now but early on he was just
01:59:55
launching broadside after broadside on
01:59:57
DeSantis and so the idea is that he's
02:00:00
out there as a trump surrogate attacking
02:00:01
the people Trump wants him to attack on
02:00:03
the whole saying good things about Trump
02:00:05
and that he'll be rewarded for that
02:00:07
somehow a cabinet position or a vice
02:00:10
president position people even now
02:00:11
saying VP because he's doing so well or
02:00:13
maybe he gets an endorsement for a
02:00:16
senate run or something like that so if
02:00:18
we had more time I would ask him about
02:00:20
this like service would have said no but
02:00:22
that's why I asked him specifically how
02:00:25
much time have you spent with Trump and
02:00:26
when's the last time he talked to him
02:00:27
and he was honest about that I've only
02:00:28
spent like I had dinner with him before
02:00:30
I was even a candidate so right I'm
02:00:31
wondering if there's some clandestine
02:00:33
agreement with them through some back
02:00:35
Channel
02:00:36
for him on his own accord
02:00:39
I think well clearly his answer would be
02:00:42
no I'm not a surrogate of my own
02:00:43
candidate and he probably is I mean so
02:00:45
my guess on it is that you can go out
02:00:47
there and act like a surrogate knowing
02:00:50
that Trump's going to like it and then
02:00:52
you'll be rewarded you don't need to
02:00:53
have an explicit deal to understand that
02:00:57
that would work out for you in that way
02:00:58
can I respond to freeburg's point so you
02:01:00
know Friedberg you said you don't like
02:01:01
the money aspect of politics and you
02:01:03
don't like the sort of careerist aspect
02:01:05
of of politics I think what we're seeing
02:01:08
with candidates like Vivek or RFK Jr or
02:01:11
Trump is candidates who are bucking
02:01:14
those two Trends I mean clearly these
02:01:16
are not lifelong politicians they have
02:01:18
maybe had a lifelong interest in
02:01:20
politics but they're not like lifelong
02:01:22
office holders or candidates for office
02:01:25
and then on the money side what they're
02:01:27
all showing is something that we all
02:01:29
know from our portfolio companies which
02:01:31
is that earn media is so much more
02:01:34
valuable than paid media totally paid me
02:01:36
a cost of Fortune and it doesn't really
02:01:38
work no one really wants to look at
02:01:40
advertising they block it out so you
02:01:43
spend a lot of money on advertising and
02:01:45
it never really gets you much compared
02:01:47
to earned media which is you figure out
02:01:48
a way to insert yourself in the news
02:01:50
cycle by appealing to people on issues
02:01:53
that are being talked about you figure
02:01:54
out how to kind of hit your wagon to
02:01:56
like you said Jason a trending topic and
02:01:59
that's what all three of these
02:01:59
candidates have done and it works so
02:02:01
well and I think the sort of the career
02:02:03
politicians who are proceeding in this
02:02:05
very kind of Playbook way which is we're
02:02:08
going to go out we're going to raise the
02:02:09
most money from donors then we're going
02:02:10
to buy the most TV time and we're going
02:02:14
to be on message I mean we're only going
02:02:15
to talk about the things we want to talk
02:02:16
about the problem is that doesn't work
02:02:18
anymore because earned media is so much
02:02:20
more valuable than paid media well look
02:02:22
I hope that's a trend and I hope it
02:02:24
flushes the money out of the system and
02:02:26
that candidates win based on the Merit
02:02:27
of the conversation that they have in
02:02:29
earned media instead of buying more ad
02:02:32
space on paid media and that it changes
02:02:34
the game and I hope that the laws change
02:02:36
too and I also hope that the laws change
02:02:38
with respect to Career politicians and
02:02:39
term limits and all that sort of stuff
02:02:41
because this whole career system and
02:02:43
money in this thing is what's driving so
02:02:45
I understand one of the contributors and
02:02:47
government spending and government
02:02:48
accountability and all the nonsense that
02:02:50
goes on and I would love to see it
02:02:52
change I think the earned media is so
02:02:54
valuable now that I think candidates who
02:02:56
try to stay on their message on their
02:02:59
agenda it's going to cost too much money
02:03:02
it's basically an unsustainable path I
02:03:04
would urge all the Republican candidates
02:03:06
including DeSantis just to get out there
02:03:08
by the way DeSantis is a tremendously
02:03:10
smart man I mean he went to where is he
02:03:12
Harvard he's not on all in he's a lawyer
02:03:15
where is he yeah to be fair I haven't
02:03:17
asked him yet but why
02:03:19
yeah what's going on Chris Christie's
02:03:21
coming on the last time I'm asking to do
02:03:22
something we had technical difficulties
02:03:24
remember that it didn't go over too well
02:03:26
just for the record uh the mooch
02:03:29
who loves the fact that a unit of time
02:03:32
has been named after him from usags oh
02:03:34
yeah any 11-day period is known as a
02:03:36
mooch so if you have one of the lessons
02:03:38
yeah
02:03:42
but he uh he literally introduced me to
02:03:46
Governor Chris Christie over text so I'm
02:03:48
in touch with Chris Christie's coming on
02:03:50
the Pod so that's three of the top six
02:03:52
or five in terms of polling I'll ask to
02:03:54
see it just to come on we never get
02:03:55
Biden because he'll fall asleep I don't
02:03:57
think Biden can do 45 minutes without
02:03:59
him yeah that might show up let's see if
02:04:01
we can get him I think he may you know
02:04:04
he may get binded I don't know let's
02:04:06
let's not I can't ask yeah I can ask I
02:04:09
mean let's try and get Biden I mean it
02:04:10
would be great about half an hour with
02:04:12
him and he can have a real conversation
02:04:13
with us I'd be thrilled be really
02:04:15
interesting
02:04:19
it was an interview that was pretty much
02:04:21
localized to talking about foreign
02:04:24
policy in Ukraine he and he also did
02:04:26
that other woman on MSNBC they're all
02:04:29
canned he gets the questions ahead of
02:04:31
time yeah and then they edit it for him
02:04:32
so he gets post-production yeah which
02:04:35
you know then you could shape the thing
02:04:36
however you want and shame on the media
02:04:38
for doing that honestly to the left
02:04:40
media you're not helping the Democracy
02:04:43
here in the United States by you know
02:04:45
putting the fix in for Biden if he can't
02:04:47
do the interview if he can't handle an
02:04:49
hour at least then can he be the
02:04:51
president I mean let's be honest here
02:04:53
well they'll get the ratings just in
02:04:55
terms of debrief was there anything we
02:04:57
want to say about the the whole banking
02:04:59
crisis I appreciate that he tried to
02:05:01
find common ground with us
02:05:03
yeah I agree I nearly made a joke that
02:05:05
you were now going to do a fundraiser
02:05:06
for him after that
02:05:08
no I mean listen he said it himself I'm
02:05:11
going to respond to everything one out
02:05:13
of a hundred times I may change my
02:05:14
position based on new information which
02:05:16
by the way we do here every week every
02:05:19
week we all listen to each other we have
02:05:21
vibrant debate and sometimes we change
02:05:22
our positions you know like I think
02:05:24
that's what any reasonable person does
02:05:25
go ahead yeah I mean look I don't think
02:05:27
we were that far apart from him on this
02:05:29
whole banking crisis I mean I think we
02:05:31
all agree that there should be no
02:05:33
bailout for the shareholders and the
02:05:35
bondholders of these banks that are
02:05:37
poorly managed and go under
02:05:39
and I think that Vivek did endorse a
02:05:43
proposal which we I think Jason you and
02:05:46
I had both come up with which was to
02:05:49
have a higher level of FDIC Insurance
02:05:52
business banking I think it was like 10
02:05:54
million or something like that and you
02:05:56
just include that in the cost of the
02:05:58
insurance yeah exactly it's just paid by
02:06:00
the premiums of these banks for banking
02:06:02
insurance and viveka at this point about
02:06:04
you know if Roku is stupid enough to
02:06:06
keep 500 million in a checking account
02:06:07
and the bank goes under maybe they
02:06:09
should lose it it's like okay my goal is
02:06:11
not to save Roku if they're stupid
02:06:13
enough to manage their money to save the
02:06:15
local school really the only difference
02:06:17
is that and I think Friedberg you hit
02:06:19
the nail on the head is when you have a
02:06:21
bank run underway you have to stop it
02:06:24
before the Panic can spread contagion is
02:06:26
real the contagion was absolutely real I
02:06:28
don't think people outside Silicon
02:06:30
Valley could understand that because
02:06:31
they weren't in those Friday morning
02:06:34
emergency phone calls and board meetings
02:06:36
that were happening so we know it was it
02:06:40
had already moved so far beyond svb at
02:06:42
that point we had Founders moving their
02:06:45
money out of First Republic and all
02:06:46
these other Banks Thursday and Friday on
02:06:48
Thursday and Friday and they wanted to
02:06:49
go to the top four Banks and if it
02:06:51
wasn't a sip it wasn't good enough if it
02:06:53
wasn't called Silicon Valley Bank this
02:06:55
would have been a totally different
02:06:55
thing and if it hadn't been us raising
02:06:57
the alarm let's be self-aware people
02:06:59
hate Silicon Valley Tech there's this
02:07:01
contingent of people wait Silicon Valley
02:07:03
Tech and rich people and they were just
02:07:05
gleeful you know there's 20 percent of
02:07:07
the sort of far left communist
02:07:09
socialists you know idiots who mids
02:07:12
Elizabeth Warren's whoever's who are
02:07:15
just like oh great silicon Valley's
02:07:17
getting kicked in the nuts they were
02:07:18
thrilled to see it right that was that
02:07:21
was short and Freud all right we got a
02:07:22
wrap hey uh pull up these pictures real
02:07:24
quick this is your five second science
02:07:26
Corner look these are photos taken on
02:07:28
Mars yesterday how cool is this that's
02:07:29
all I had to say yeah those that's
02:07:31
exactly the chances of taking a photo on
02:07:33
Mars are three billion 721 tours if you
02:07:36
can see this looks just like this those
02:07:39
are from Uranus yeah those are from Mars
02:07:41
very similar to the photos I took of my
02:07:44
ages last night I took my iPhone 14 and
02:07:48
I squatted down and took pictures of
02:07:49
these tingle Bells into a mirror and I
02:07:51
said look at what's going on down there
02:07:53
huh these these Boulders are very
02:07:56
similar to the dingleberries
02:08:00
if you look at those two both there's
02:08:03
similar to my huge balls
02:08:06
you guys can't put this out
02:08:10
I love you guys don't you think that's
02:08:12
cool that there's these cameras on Mars
02:08:14
yes it's incredible and how cool are
02:08:17
those photos I feel like we should have
02:08:19
had two episodes this week since there
02:08:20
were so many good topics for us to talk
02:08:22
about but let's talk about any of the
02:08:24
the topics but yeah that was good uh
02:08:26
good meeting love you guys love you guys
02:08:28
uh Hey if you guys are uh around you
02:08:31
know anyone who wants to get some wine
02:08:33
and some pasta I've got some wine later
02:08:35
maybe next week or something who knows
02:08:37
maybe we'll all get together in person
02:08:38
have a glass of wine I see you soon I
02:08:41
love you guys
02:08:43
ciao for the architect himself the
02:08:47
dictator the Sultan of science obviously
02:08:50
after today's performance I am still the
02:08:53
world's greatest moderator this has been
02:08:55
another episode of
02:08:57
the all-in podcasts were still together
02:09:00
the band is still together producing hot
02:09:03
tracks we'll see you next week coming at
02:09:05
you two for Tuesday Tears for Fears
02:09:07
Everybody Wants to Rule the World
02:09:09
including Vivek next time Chris Christie
02:09:12
uh coming at you 100 Z morning Zoo we'll
02:09:15
see you tomorrow
02:09:19
[Music]
02:09:34
besties
02:09:37
[Music]
02:09:52
it's like this like sexual tension that
02:09:55
we just need to release
02:09:56
[Music]
02:10:05
oh
02:10:07
[Music]
