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welcome to the best interest podcast
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where we believe Benjamin Franklin's
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advice that an investment in knowledge
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pays the best interest both in finances
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and in your life every episode teaches
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you personal finance and investing in
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simple terms now here's your host Jesse
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Kramer hello and welcome to episode 68
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of the best interest podcast my name is
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Jesse Kramer today we're going to have
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Rose very on the show Rose is a keynote
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speaker an Amazon bestselling author a
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Simplicity coach and a stillsane mom of
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triplets we'll give Rose a bit of a
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longer introduction later before we get
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to the meat of the episode let's do our
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review of the week this one comes in
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from Curtis wh who left a review on
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Apple podcasts Curtis wrote great pod
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with good interviews I enjoy hearing the
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interviews and different perspectives
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definitely should give it a listen
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Curtis thanks for the kind words if
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you're hearing this Curtis shoot me an
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email Jesse bestin interest. blog and
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I'll get you hooked up with some cool
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best interest swag before we get to Rose
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today I wanted to share a few thoughts
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on the stuff we fill our lives with the
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stuff we choose to spend money on that
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kind of topic and I thought we could
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start with something called bodal
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spending it's an idea I had a few years
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ago I started to adopt it in my own life
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and maybe I can convince you to adopt it
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in your life too now first things first
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first let's define bodal out there in
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the real world it's common to see normal
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distributions uh normal distribution
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occurs when data clumps around the
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average and then a few data points are
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dispersed out at the extremes you've
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seen normal distributions before some
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people call them bell curves when we
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talk about things like standard
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deviation that usually applies to normal
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distributions many of us are also
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familiar with uniform distributions a
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uniform distribution where data is
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spread even ly among a range you know if
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we asked a group of 100 people to pick
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their favorite number between 1 and 10
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we'd expect a relatively uniform
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distribution with picks pretty much 10
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people are going to pick every number on
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average now a bodal distribution as the
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name implies as you might have heard in
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the name itself it has two modes by
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modal it has two distinct Peaks which
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often occur at opposite ends of a range
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so a b distribution if you were to graph
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it out it looks like almost like two
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mountain peaks with a valley in between
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so okay let's get back to this concept
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called bodal spending my creative
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conception is that we should apply a
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bodal distribution to our spending
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Habits by modal spending it asks you to
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say either hell yes or no to Major
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expenses you either go Whole Hog or you
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go not at all there's no middle ground
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now keep in mind the significance of
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saying hell yes it fades away if you say
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it too much you you can't say hell yes
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to everything so you need to think of
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the things you enjoy if you're like me
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that list is pretty long food travel
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hiking sports music reading blogging
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spending time with friends and family
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fostering dogs there are a lot of things
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that I like you're probably the same if
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I'm not careful and I graft out my
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passions in in some sort of XY plot
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everything would seem like it's
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passionate I would I would have so many
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hobbies so many passions so many things
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I could or would spend my time and money
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on I could spend thousands of dollars on
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each of those Pursuits that I listed
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before I could buy lots of stuff I could
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go on lots of Adventures but is all of
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that stuff worth it that's the question
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to ask now I say no it's not all worth
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it only some things are worth it we know
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for example that luxurious spending it
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brings less fulfillment as we spend more
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that's called the Fulfillment curve why
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well one of the limiting factors is time
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we don't have the time to devote lots of
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hours to all of our various Pursuits and
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passions we need to pick and choose if I
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were to try everything I would spread
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myself too thin and being spread thin
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isn't enjoyable it's not optimal so
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that's why I'm reimagining my passion
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graph so to speak to look like a bodal
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distribution on the one hand I have the
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true and few passions that I absolutely
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love
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and on the other end I have all of those
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passions that I'm just saying even
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though they're cool they don't quite
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meet my bar and therefore I'm not going
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to devote any time to them at all if
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something is hell yes I'll devote the
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time and money to it but if it's only
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kind of fun or an occasional Pastime
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then I want to prune it I want to get
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rid of it from my budget and from my
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schedule I want to focus my fund money
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on the hell yes passions I want to Route
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all that was not life or eliminate that
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which doesn't lighten my fire if you're
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a Henry David throw fan we can play that
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quote from that poem right now I'll Now
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read the traditional opening message by
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Society member Henry David
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thurough I went to the woods because I
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wanted to live deliberately I wanted to
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live deep and suck out all the marrow of
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Life I'll second that to put to Route
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all that was not life and not when I had
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come to die discover that I had not
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lived so how does that translate into a
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bodal spending distribution you ask I
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want my dollars to go towards either one
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basic life needs or two hell yes passion
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activities if you were to graph it out
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and I can include in the show notes the
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article where I show this graph you
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would see a a peak of spending when it
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comes to simple survival the necessities
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of life the food the housing utilities
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you would see a pretty deep valley of
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spending or lack of spending on things
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that are kind of fun or somewhat
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interesting or nice to have and then you
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see a second big spike in spending when
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it comes to to my biggest passions
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either the bare necessities or the true
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marrow of life that's what I'm going to
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spend time and money on but not much in
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between anything in the middle of the
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graft will bring me very few units of
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fulfillment per dollar spent I want the
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dollars I spend to do good sometimes
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that's through charity giving to others
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contributing to group activities but if
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I am spending on myself I want to
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squeeze out as much fulfillment as I can
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there's a gentle reminder you might have
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heard this quote before
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look at all the stuff around you that
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stuff used to be money and that money
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used to be time I don't want to spend
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money or my time on average stuff I'll
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pay for the necessities and then after
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that I want my spending to make me say
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hell yes bodal spending is a rehash of
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the predo principle also known as the
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8020 rule Focus 80% of your fund
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spending on your favorite 20% of
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activities or you can push that ratio
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even further spend 95% % of your fun
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money on your top 5% of activities the
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other 95% of your fun activities spend
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as little there as you can they aren't
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hell yes activities they're milk toast
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at best they'll only pull resources away
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from the activities you truly enjoy
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whatever the ratio you choose you know
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80 20 90 10 it's amusing that Pito rears
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his Mel head yet again and some of you
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might recognize that botal spending is
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reminiscent of RIT seti's rich life idea
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to quote RIT living a rich life means
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having the ability to spend my time and
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money on the areas that are important to
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me now how does remit suggest you pursue
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your rich life simple he tells you to
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spend extravagantly on the things you
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love and cut costs mercilessly on the
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things you don't that is botal spending
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categorize your Pursuits as things you
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love or as things you don't or you can
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create a bimodal passion graph spend
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extravagantly on the right side of your
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passion graph and cut mercilessly on the
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left side of your graph ramit seti is a
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bodal spender now for a quick anecdote
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friend of the best interest Martin he
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and I have talked about this before he
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loves travel he loves fine dining those
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things are his passions and that's why
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it made sense for him to spend two weeks
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in Lima Peru and plan a meal at Central
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considered to be one of the best
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restaurants in the world it's a Once in
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a Lifetime experience the memories of
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that trip still bringing him Joy today
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now that is a hell yes hell yes spending
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lies elsewhere I'll buy say a $200 pair
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of hiking boots or a top-of-the-line
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laptop to support the best interest but
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I might not go to Lima Peru I might not
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eat at Central I might not buy new golf
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clubs even though I do like golf but
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another friend of the blog Mark I know
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he absolutely loves golf he plays as
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much as he can he's traveled to Ireland
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to play historic courses he plays in the
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rain and the snow because you've got to
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make the golf season count here in
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Rochester New York so new club clubs and
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a Course membership they help Mark live
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his RIT seti Rich Life Golf is a hell
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yes for Mark Different Strokes for
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different folks we each get to create
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our own passion graph and plan our bodal
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spending accordingly even down in the
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bare necessities categories like food
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and housing I found that bimodal
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spending helps me feel more fulfilled
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cars for example I don't love cars I
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don't want or need an expensive car I
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want to spend as little on cars as I'm
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able to I plan to drive my Toyota into
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the ground and then continue to pay for
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a car that's more function over form so
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for groceries I love cooking and baking
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for people I want to spend extra money
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to make sure my pizza has the highest
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quality cheese I want to spend money on
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imported vanilla extract for my cookies
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but for the average meal on the average
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day I'm relatively Spartan all I need
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for breakfast were a few eggs and an
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English muffin 95% of my meals are
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simple 5% are extravagant and nice so
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that's mostly no with a little bit of
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hell yes at the time I put botal
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spending as an idea down on paper my
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laptop was a 5-year-old HP and the
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cooling fan it sounded a little bit like
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a weed eater it sounded like a
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disgusting metallic engine it was not a
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good sounding laptop it was probably a
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$250 model way past its prime but the
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best interest in working on this project
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was one of my big passions so to support
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the blog and the podcast I was saving up
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for a new Macbook and that's the MacBook
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that I'm recording this episode into
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right now I waited and waited and waited
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and on buying that new laptop because I
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I didn't quite have a hell yes reason to
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spend that much money but the best
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interest made me realize I do have that
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reason so I budgeted for a few months to
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save up money for that laptop and then
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once I had the money saved I pulled the
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trigger and the last one dining out my
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wife at the time I wrote this article
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she was just my girlfriend she loves
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dining out and I certainly enjoy it too
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it's a great way that we spend time
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together we started saving our dining
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out dollars for hell yes dining
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experiences so we forgo a few average
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dining out experiences and we save those
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dollars for a more unique and memorable
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experience I've had my lifetime share of
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$8 hamburgers they're fine but I'd
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rather save my dollars to widen my
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pallets Horizons if you will it's
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quality over quantity it's that kind of
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decision but speaking of hamburgers
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let's switch top to something called the
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McDonald's test the McDonald's test is a
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simple way to ask yourself am I really
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enjoying the fruits of my labor while
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chatting with a client last year we
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covered a vital financial planning topic
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spending his retirement savings it's
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challenging for many retirees to switch
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from a saving mindset to a spending
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mindset this client quite plainly hadn't
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started spending at all so off the cuff
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I asked him humor me what's your
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favorite meal and he answered it's got
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to be hamburger and fries guys so I
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replied well what's the best burger
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you've had recently what's your go-to
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hamburger spot here in Rochester and he
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said honestly I'm pretty easy McDonald's
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is just fine for me and at that response
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I paused and I thought to myself well
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perhaps it's a frugality decision
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frugality certainly a tenant of the best
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interest I'm never going to begrudge
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somebody for including finances in their
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decision-making or maybe he chose
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McDonald's maybe it was a flavor
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decision I'll admit a picture of a Big
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Mac and Fries makes me hungry but the
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burger spectrum is pretty vast and I'm
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sure that McDonald's has Rivals and
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wouldn't he want to explore what's out
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there or maybe for this client
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McDonald's was just a Simplicity
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decision in the same way that Steve Jobs
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wore the same outfit every day to reduce
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decision fatigue maybe my client decided
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on McDonald's and that's that he doesn't
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have to make any more Burger decisions
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in his life trying to be respectful I
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asked him if he tried other burger
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places in Rochester and he said eh not
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really now I knew already that he liked
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driving his old school car so I replied
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to him I said you know Mr client if you
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wanted to you could do something like
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plan one trip per week to the most
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renowned burger joints in Upstate New
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York you could drive New Roads try new
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fries take notes along the way now
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that's just one example of something you
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could do my bigger point is you've saved
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money your whole life and now you get to
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spend it and the way I see it you might
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as well spend on your favorite things I
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want to make sure that you know as a
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client what I know as your financial
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planner you you can eat all the
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McDonald's you want but you could also
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afford any Burger and Fries you want
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that question it turned out was the
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creation of the McDonald's test since
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that meeting about once per quarter
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calendar quarter I get an email like
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this we took Roots 5 and 20 from Lia to
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skinny Atlas and then we went North into
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Syracuse Final Destination ale and Angus
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Fantastic Burger I can see how they've
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gotten all those accolades 10 out of 10
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you and Kelly should definitely go it
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was a rainy weekend but still nice to
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drive through some of those old cities I
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hadn't been to in years waterl Auburn
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Etc so listeners if you're big Savers
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that's great but eventually you should
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run the McDonald's test on your life ask
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yourself are you at least spending money
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on the stuff that brings you Joy are you
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remembering both sides of botal spending
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if you just want McDonald's all the time
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fantastic don't let me turn you off but
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if you want to take that road trip to
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alen Angus and you can afford to take
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that day trip to alen Angus for that 10
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of 10 Burger why aren't you doing it are
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you just big macking through the rest of
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your life or are you enjoying the fruits
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and the meats and the potatoes of your
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labor that's the McDonald's test here's
00:14:41
a quick ad and then we'll get back to
00:14:42
the show did you know my written Blog
00:14:45
the best interest was nominated for 2022
00:14:48
personal finance blog of the year and
00:14:50
it's been highlighted in the Wall Street
00:14:51
Journal yahooo finance and on CNBC I
00:14:54
love writing especially when that
00:14:56
writing is to share financial education
00:14:58
and I usually write one or two articles
00:15:00
per week you can read them all at
00:15:03
bestter interest. blog again the web
00:15:06
address is bestter interest. blog check
00:15:09
it out so with that let's bring on Rose
00:15:12
Lounsbury onto the podcast Rose is a
00:15:15
keynote speaker an Amazon best-selling
00:15:17
author Simplicity coach and the
00:15:19
stillsane mom of triplets Rose helps
00:15:22
overwhelmed people create Open Spaces in
00:15:24
their homes in their workspaces and more
00:15:27
importantly in their minds
00:15:29
by letting go of the excess stuffff that
00:15:31
gets in the
00:15:32
[Music]
00:15:41
way Rose thanks for joining us today and
00:15:44
I thought we could start today's
00:15:46
conversation with towels all right H how
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many towels do you own why am I even
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asking that question in the first place
00:15:54
because I know our listeners are going
00:15:56
to be a little confused and then what
00:15:58
are some of the big lessons that our
00:15:59
listeners can take away from such an
00:16:01
innocuous question yeah so I'm gonna
00:16:04
guess the reason you're asking that
00:16:05
question is because I did a tedex talk
00:16:07
called how many towels do you need and
00:16:11
Unown to me that's a question people are
00:16:12
very curious about because it is the
00:16:14
only thing I've ever done that's gone
00:16:15
even somewhat semi viral of sorts I have
00:16:18
almost 600,000 views on it which is
00:16:20
crazy to me but it's interesting because
00:16:22
towels are something that everybody has
00:16:25
and to answer your question the first
00:16:27
question I have two tow per person in my
00:16:29
house and we are a family of five so
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there's 10 bath towels in our house for
00:16:34
the humans in the house my dog actually
00:16:36
has more than two towels because he ends
00:16:38
up with all the old towels and so when
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we just forget to throw them away so so
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Rudy gets more than two I guess why does
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it matter well it matters because when I
00:16:46
started my minimalism and simplicity
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journey I started with my towels and in
00:16:51
retrospect the reason that I started by
00:16:53
looking at my towels and asking
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questions about them was because it was
00:16:56
a really easy place to start and so
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anybody body listening who might want to
00:17:00
simplify or declutter their life just
00:17:01
know you probably have towels and that
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might be a great place to start because
00:17:05
it's not emotional we don't have
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memories usually closely wrapped up with
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towels like we might have with pictures
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and letters and cards and that sorts of
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stuff or gifts that people have given us
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so towels are an easy place to begin and
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I started there and the question that I
00:17:20
asked myself was how many towels do we
00:17:23
need and the reason that that question
00:17:25
was really impactful was because I think
00:17:27
a lot of times when we're looking at
00:17:29
stuff especially Americans which I'm
00:17:32
guessing most of your listeners are
00:17:33
Americans probably with all their needs
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met many of them most of us don't look
00:17:38
at anything we consume really from the
00:17:40
perspective of need because most of us
00:17:42
have what we need and more so a lot of
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times we're looking from the perspective
00:17:46
of how much can I afford to buy or how
00:17:49
much can I fit in my space or even
00:17:51
another question I would ask a lot which
00:17:53
is how could I best organize this stuff
00:17:56
which is often a question of how could I
00:17:58
keep all my stuff in a way that looks
00:18:01
nice and I can find it but none of those
00:18:03
questions really address how much we
00:18:06
need need is a very different question
00:18:08
and so when I asked myself how many
00:18:09
towels do I need it was really clear to
00:18:12
me that the answer really was just two
00:18:14
per person because we're the kind of
00:18:16
family where we have one towel at a time
00:18:19
I'll use the same towel for a week and I
00:18:21
know everybody's some people might just
00:18:22
be a guas at that you know some people
00:18:24
are you cannot use the same towel twice
00:18:26
and if you're that kind of person too is
00:18:27
not going to be enough for you right so
00:18:29
it's important to recognize that just
00:18:31
because I say that's the amount we need
00:18:32
as a family that's not going to be the
00:18:34
answer for every single person out there
00:18:36
and that is okay the amount that someone
00:18:38
else might need is going to be different
00:18:40
than the amount that I need so it's an
00:18:41
important question because it has you
00:18:43
begin looking at the things you own from
00:18:46
a very different perspective than the
00:18:48
perspective that most consumer culture
00:18:51
has us look at things which is how much
00:18:52
can we consume how much can we afford
00:18:55
what's in style now what do we need to
00:18:57
get rid of that no longer in style well
00:19:00
why don't you just buy a bigger house so
00:19:01
then you can have more bigger and better
00:19:04
so it's a very different perspective and
00:19:06
what's great about it you can look at
00:19:08
your towels this way how many do you
00:19:09
need and then you can look at everything
00:19:11
else that same way how many pairs of
00:19:13
shoes do you need how many spatulas do
00:19:15
you need how many hammers do you need
00:19:18
you know you can go through really all
00:19:20
the things that you own and you can ask
00:19:22
yourself how much do I really need and I
00:19:23
want to be clear that I'm not advocating
00:19:26
for a just utilitarian Bare Bones
00:19:30
aesthetic lifestyle I'm not recommending
00:19:32
anyone become a monk and own nothing and
00:19:34
renounce all their possessions but I
00:19:37
think that we all could do better by
00:19:40
looking at our things from the
00:19:41
perspective of need versus want or
00:19:44
ability to consume and what I found
00:19:47
personally in my life the whole reason
00:19:48
that I ended up doing this and continued
00:19:50
to do it was that when I looked from
00:19:52
that perspective it was very freeing
00:19:55
because when you know how much you need
00:19:56
and you know that you have what you need
00:19:59
it really alleviates all that excess
00:20:01
noise that you might not even realize
00:20:03
you have that's telling you you need
00:20:04
this to be successful you need this to
00:20:06
be beautiful you need this to be
00:20:07
professional you need this to show your
00:20:09
status these voices that we're not
00:20:11
always even aware are there when they're
00:20:13
silent you have this open space to think
00:20:16
about much bigger ideas for your life so
00:20:20
that's the deeper philosophical answer
00:20:22
to the towel question and a funny story
00:20:25
that I will add to this so my my husband
00:20:27
is charge of washing the towels we have
00:20:29
a laundry schedule I'm very organized so
00:20:31
he's he's in charge of washing the
00:20:33
towels he's supposed to do it on
00:20:34
Saturdays but he doesn't always do that
00:20:36
and so he had let it go for like a few
00:20:37
weeks and I just don't say anything
00:20:39
because I'm like he'll do it when he
00:20:40
wants to do it well by the time he did
00:20:42
it we were pretty much out of towels
00:20:43
because by that time people had replace
00:20:44
the towels there's only 10 and there's
00:20:46
five of us have have 14-year-old
00:20:47
triplets and he comes out of the shower
00:20:50
so he's put all the towels in the in the
00:20:52
washer but they're not gone to the dryer
00:20:53
yet he comes out of the shower and he's
00:20:55
in his bathroom and he's dripping wet
00:20:56
he's like we don't have any towels I
00:20:58
would have to go down and get one of
00:20:59
Rudy's towels so he goes down and dries
00:21:01
himself with the dog towel because that
00:21:03
was all that he could use so how many
00:21:05
towels do you need also might depend on
00:21:07
how often you do the laundry at your
00:21:09
house and who's in charge of doing the
00:21:11
laundry so just a little warning or
00:21:12
kevat for people there extra towels they
00:21:15
might be a want they might be a need but
00:21:17
when they're all in the wash and you
00:21:19
come out of the shower wet it's
00:21:21
definitely a need at that point I would
00:21:23
say yeah if you don't want to dry
00:21:24
yourself with your dog towel make sure
00:21:26
you've got enough well one thing Rose
00:21:29
you're talking about the towels and and
00:21:30
you talked about how towels are this
00:21:32
thing that they're a very useful item
00:21:34
there's really not much Beauty to a
00:21:37
towel but maybe when evaluating other
00:21:39
things in our life maybe they're not
00:21:41
particularly useful but they are
00:21:43
beautiful or meaningful in some way and
00:21:45
I've heard you before kind of rate items
00:21:48
along those two different spectrums or
00:21:50
Spectra is it useful is it beautiful can
00:21:54
you dive into those two specific words a
00:21:56
little bit more yeah I got that criteria
00:21:59
from William Morris who was a 19th
00:22:02
Century interior designer so once people
00:22:05
had kind of gotten their basic needs met
00:22:08
they started thinking about how could I
00:22:09
make my home more beautiful and interior
00:22:11
design became an industry it wasn't
00:22:12
always an industry so this is the 1800s
00:22:15
and he says this quote that I think
00:22:18
Rings just as true today as it did then
00:22:20
which is have nothing in your house that
00:22:22
you do not know to be useful or believe
00:22:25
to be beautiful and so the reason that I
00:22:28
use those two criteria useful and
00:22:29
beautiful really comes from that quote
00:22:31
that was said well over a hundred years
00:22:33
ago and so what I think is really key
00:22:35
about it is he he worded it as such that
00:22:37
you know to be useful and I think it's
00:22:40
really important that we only know
00:22:42
something is useful if we are using it
00:22:45
because a lot of times we're keeping
00:22:46
things because we think oh it could
00:22:48
potentially be useful someday I'm going
00:22:50
to use the panini maker someday I'm
00:22:52
going to use the waffle maker someday
00:22:54
I'm going to need all those extra towels
00:22:55
that I bought on sale at koh's I'm not
00:22:57
using them now but someday I might they
00:22:59
could be useful it's really about
00:23:01
knowing something to be useful because
00:23:03
you actually use it and then the second
00:23:06
question is or you believe it to be
00:23:09
beautiful and that's kind of going back
00:23:10
to what I said earlier about we're not
00:23:12
really talking about just having the
00:23:14
barebones necessary for survival we're
00:23:17
talking about having space in our lives
00:23:19
for the things that bring us joy the
00:23:21
things that we look at and it makes us
00:23:22
feel good so in my house I have plenty
00:23:25
of things that are not useful I have
00:23:27
paintings that my mom has done I have
00:23:29
pictures of my family I have cards that
00:23:32
my kids have given to me when they were
00:23:34
little they said I love you mama is any
00:23:36
of this useful no not necessarily not by
00:23:39
the strict definition of useful but it
00:23:41
brings me great joy to behold these
00:23:43
items or to hold them or to look at them
00:23:45
or to read them and I want to have space
00:23:47
in my life for those things and what
00:23:50
happens sometimes I think is people
00:23:52
think well Everything is Beautiful
00:23:54
Everything is special and what happens
00:23:56
is when we think every single thing is
00:23:58
special is that nothing is special it's
00:24:00
kind of that if everything's a 10
00:24:01
nothing's a 10 right and so when we're
00:24:04
simplifying Our Lives specifically our
00:24:06
possessions we really want to think
00:24:07
about what are the things that are truly
00:24:10
beautiful and what are the things that
00:24:11
are kind of just detracting from the
00:24:13
beauty because all the extra stuff that
00:24:16
you have actually decreases the value of
00:24:18
the most important things that you have
00:24:21
so it's really more about curating like
00:24:23
a museum curates and they put out their
00:24:26
very best things not NE necessarily
00:24:28
every single painting that any artist
00:24:30
has ever done even a single artist not
00:24:32
every painting that artist has ever ever
00:24:34
done what are the most beautiful or the
00:24:35
best ones those are the ones that we're
00:24:37
going to display and so you can kind of
00:24:38
think about your home that way you've
00:24:40
got to have the useful things because
00:24:42
you know them to be useful but make
00:24:44
space for the beautiful things that
00:24:46
bring you great joy when you look at
00:24:48
them so that's really how I apply useful
00:24:51
and beautiful and I'd encourage your
00:24:53
listeners if they're interested in doing
00:24:54
this to start thinking about that when
00:24:56
they look at things too I like that
00:24:58
museum example it made me think there's
00:24:59
a local Museum or at least a art studio
00:25:03
Warehouse here in Rochester that on the
00:25:06
one hand it's it is very neat I think
00:25:08
it's very neat I've been there a couple
00:25:10
times but it's a little overwhelming
00:25:12
when I go there I look around and a lot
00:25:14
of it at least to me is is junk it's not
00:25:17
so much art as it it's junk and there's
00:25:19
just so much of it that it kind of all
00:25:22
Blends together and it does I think
00:25:24
detract from the experience and the
00:25:27
ability to contrast the true beauty from
00:25:31
everything else that doesn't quite make
00:25:32
it having that ability to contrast
00:25:34
having that judgment is important and it
00:25:36
it does lead back to a personal finance
00:25:38
topic when we think about spending money
00:25:40
on things that are truly beautiful
00:25:42
versus spending money on things that are
00:25:44
just medium or or mediocre and I I think
00:25:47
Rose one of my repeating issues we
00:25:49
haven't quite touched on on gifting yet
00:25:51
but when I think about spending money on
00:25:53
stuff I know you've talked about gifting
00:25:55
before I have amazing friends loving
00:25:57
family and and once in a while I've
00:26:00
received gifts that no offense to my
00:26:02
friends and family I have not needed one
00:26:04
little bit so I'm curious how do you
00:26:06
think I should handle these situations
00:26:08
and maybe at the same time is there a
00:26:11
way to be a better Gift Giver well I
00:26:14
think one thing we can all know is that
00:26:16
those wonderful friends and family who
00:26:17
have given us gifts we didn't want we
00:26:19
have given them the exact same thing we
00:26:22
have given them stuff that they didn't
00:26:23
want this is the nature of gift giving
00:26:25
we are not mind readers we we're not
00:26:27
fortune tellers so we're going to give
00:26:29
people gifts that they don't necessarily
00:26:32
need or want and it with all our best
00:26:34
intentions we're just not always going
00:26:35
to hit it out of the park with gifts and
00:26:36
that's just the way it goes so when it
00:26:38
comes to gifts in general I have a
00:26:40
couple rules that I tend to follow and
00:26:43
the first one is to ask for what you
00:26:45
want so in the event that it's a a
00:26:48
birthday or a holiday where gifts will
00:26:50
be exchanged and somebody asks you what
00:26:52
could I get you for the holidays or what
00:26:54
I want to get you something for your
00:26:55
anniversary or for your birthday what
00:26:57
would be something that I could get for
00:26:58
you or for your child if you have
00:26:59
children when you have children you
00:27:01
actually ask that quite a lot more than
00:27:03
as an adult so what can I get for your
00:27:05
kids so if someone asks you that
00:27:08
question tell them what you want I would
00:27:10
really like a gift certificate to this
00:27:13
local organic grocery store or I would
00:27:16
like a museum pass you know we're
00:27:18
talking about museums I'd like a pass to
00:27:19
go to the museum or maybe you want a
00:27:21
donation to a charity really what do you
00:27:23
want or maybe you just want to spend
00:27:25
time with this person and you say I
00:27:26
really want a us right now to put
00:27:29
something on the calendar a day that
00:27:30
we're going to go out to lunch together
00:27:32
and I want to go out to lunch with you
00:27:33
and spend time with you and that's what
00:27:34
I want more than anything or maybe I
00:27:37
want onesie pajamas that look like a
00:27:39
leopard if that's what you want that's
00:27:41
what you want right ask for what you
00:27:43
want be really clear about it and then
00:27:45
realize whoever asked you this and you
00:27:48
told them they're probably an adult and
00:27:50
they get to make their own decisions so
00:27:52
they may not listen to your list or they
00:27:55
might think I don't really want to buy
00:27:57
them that in which case that's fine
00:28:00
that's their decision and they're going
00:28:01
to give you what they want to give you
00:28:03
anyway so the second thing I always say
00:28:05
is say thank you for what you get so no
00:28:08
matter what that person gives you we're
00:28:11
both midwesterners or we live in the
00:28:13
midwest we understand please and thank
00:28:15
you say thank you for what you get even
00:28:17
if they gave you the leopard pajamas and
00:28:19
you asked for a donation to you know
00:28:22
save the animals they took that as I'm
00:28:24
Gonna Get You pajamas that make you look
00:28:25
like an animal they like this wasn't
00:28:27
quite what I meant you just say thank
00:28:29
you because they put thought into it
00:28:31
they spent time and money on it and
00:28:33
what's great about that is once you've
00:28:34
said thank you it's like two magic words
00:28:38
that now mean that's yours you own it
00:28:40
your obligation to the gift and The
00:28:42
Giver is done at the moment of thank you
00:28:46
it you own it so now it's up to you is
00:28:48
you can go back to the questions we
00:28:49
asked earlier is it useful or beautiful
00:28:52
are you going to wear those pajamas do
00:28:53
you love them do they bring you Joy if
00:28:56
so great keep them wear them love them
00:28:58
and rock it out if not then you can
00:29:01
decide okay what's the proper home for
00:29:03
these am I going to give them away on a
00:29:04
buy nothing page am I going to donate
00:29:06
them am I going to give them to my
00:29:08
friend who likes wild pajamas I don't
00:29:10
know you get to decide what happens to
00:29:12
them but the proper thing is to say
00:29:14
thank you to the person who sent you who
00:29:15
gave you the gift and then if you can
00:29:18
use it great if not let it go and so
00:29:20
that's kind of how I manage gift giving
00:29:22
and I realized a lot of that's a little
00:29:23
easier said than done because obviously
00:29:25
there are people's feelings in involved
00:29:28
but I generally think after practicing
00:29:30
this for a while and if you're open
00:29:32
about your values around stuff if you're
00:29:34
a person like me who maybe has a whole
00:29:36
blog and business about this or maybe
00:29:38
not maybe you just talk about how you're
00:29:40
pursuing a simpler lifestyle people
00:29:42
generally have an understanding that and
00:29:45
usually they do come around to you know
00:29:47
this is the kind of person who's
00:29:48
probably not going to want a lot of
00:29:49
physical possessions and then your other
00:29:52
question was about how to be a better
00:29:54
Gift Giver yeah to other people right
00:29:57
because we are gift givers and that's a
00:29:59
tricky one right so I generally ask
00:30:02
people what they would like what would
00:30:04
be helpful for you what would be useful
00:30:06
for you and I try my best to find
00:30:09
something that I think would be helpful
00:30:10
or useful I as a parent of three kids
00:30:14
have kind of moved toward gifts that
00:30:17
allow experiences or time because I
00:30:20
think they're just so much more
00:30:21
meaningful I mean I have seen my kids
00:30:23
get really excited about a toy the
00:30:25
moment they open it up and two weeks
00:30:26
later it was sitting around and they
00:30:28
never played with it ever again and I'm
00:30:30
thinking well that was really not very
00:30:32
meaningful I know I gave that gift but
00:30:34
it's not adding anything you know in
00:30:36
terms of Joy or value to their life and
00:30:38
not to our relationship so when I give
00:30:40
gifts I I try to think of things
00:30:42
especially to my children that will
00:30:44
increase the value of our relationship
00:30:46
and our connectedness so for my my boys
00:30:49
for example Last Christmas I gave them
00:30:51
tickets to go see the Cleveland
00:30:53
Cavaliers play the Indiana Pacers in
00:30:55
Indianapolis and I had never been to
00:30:57
professional basketball game I don't
00:30:58
even really like sports but we went to
00:31:00
this professional basketball game it was
00:31:02
so cool we had so much fun we were we
00:31:05
got pretty close seats because it was
00:31:07
their big Christmas gift and it was
00:31:09
really fun so that was their Christmas
00:31:11
present from me so I think as I have
00:31:13
kind of gone on this journey I've
00:31:15
started to think about what kinds of
00:31:17
gifts really make a difference to me and
00:31:19
to the giver and my kids will tell you
00:31:21
and there's plenty of research to back
00:31:23
this up as well that the thing that
00:31:25
makes people feel most most grateful
00:31:28
later the things they spend money on
00:31:29
that we feel gratitude about later are
00:31:31
things that were experiences instead of
00:31:33
stuff and that is true based on
00:31:36
scientific research that has been done
00:31:38
so when we think about giving gifts we
00:31:41
can think about I'm going to spend money
00:31:42
on a gift how can I make this really
00:31:44
valuable in the sense of this is going
00:31:46
to be something that's going to make
00:31:48
someone feel grateful or loved or cared
00:31:50
about later and we can try to give those
00:31:52
gifts and obviously sometimes you got to
00:31:53
buy a gift for your assistant or your
00:31:55
boss okay in which case I recommend
00:31:59
something maybe consumable that's not
00:32:01
going to add stuff some local chocolates
00:32:03
or teas or honey or something like that
00:32:05
that will not necessarily be a trinket
00:32:08
that somebody has to dust or take care
00:32:10
of or quietly uh eventually donate so
00:32:14
those are some of my general things on
00:32:16
on gift giving Which maybe as these
00:32:19
holidays are coming up will be helpful
00:32:20
to some of your listeners totally that's
00:32:22
exactly what I was thinking I'm so glad
00:32:24
you you ended up mentioning that
00:32:26
research about uh experiences over
00:32:28
material Goods because that's exactly
00:32:30
what my my mind went to when you started
00:32:31
talking about that Pacers Cavaliers game
00:32:34
another thing that I thought about is it
00:32:36
is hard to quote unquote give the right
00:32:38
gift I if you aren't asking the
00:32:41
recipient what they want and I I think
00:32:43
of an anecdote where I a few Christmases
00:32:45
ago I gave my father-in-law a book by an
00:32:48
author named Jim Collins who's a very
00:32:49
famous kind of management author about
00:32:51
running good businesses and and the the
00:32:54
history of effective businesses that
00:32:55
kind of thing because my father in-law
00:32:57
he he runs he's the the president of the
00:33:00
firm that he works for and I'm like yeah
00:33:02
this this is right up his alley it's
00:33:03
leadership it's running a business it's
00:33:05
that kind of thing it's like well my
00:33:07
father-in-law he's just not the biggest
00:33:09
reader so even though it was probably a
00:33:11
book that he enjoyed and I think he did
00:33:13
flip through it he'd rather kind of
00:33:15
watch a one-hour documentary than than
00:33:17
read that book and it just wasn't that
00:33:19
effective of a gift even though I put
00:33:21
thought into it even though I wanted to
00:33:23
make sure it was unique to him it's just
00:33:25
it's hard to give the best gifts and I
00:33:27
like the idea of just asking that
00:33:29
question yeah yeah and another way of
00:33:31
thinking about it is I often think of
00:33:33
gifts as vehicles for our love and
00:33:36
Goodwill so really the book was just a
00:33:39
vehicle to your father-in-law to say hey
00:33:42
I I care about you and I thought about
00:33:44
you and I love you and and and the book
00:33:47
itself doesn't matter it could have been
00:33:49
a book it could have been a sweater it
00:33:51
could have been tickets to a Pacers game
00:33:53
or whatever it really doesn't matter it
00:33:55
is you know the thought that counts when
00:33:56
it comes down to it the the gift itself
00:33:58
sometimes carries the love and Goodwill
00:34:00
to us and what I always say is you can
00:34:01
keep the love and the Good Will and let
00:34:03
the object go because it was just the
00:34:05
messenger to bring that to you and now
00:34:07
you've received it love and Goodwill we
00:34:09
can keep as much as we want and we don't
00:34:11
have to keep every book and every coffee
00:34:13
mug and every
00:34:14
t-shirt here's a quick ad and then we'll
00:34:16
get back to the show serious question
00:34:19
why do podcasters constantly ask for
00:34:21
ratings and reviews yes they do help
00:34:24
highlight our shows to new listeners
00:34:26
they help straighten just find us on
00:34:27
Apple podcast and Spotify it's totally
00:34:30
true and a good reason to ask for
00:34:31
ratings and reviews but I have something
00:34:34
more important at least more important
00:34:35
to me I want to know if you like this
00:34:38
stuff I want to know if you like my
00:34:40
podcast episodes my monologues my guests
00:34:42
the information I share with you and the
00:34:44
stories I tell I want to improve and
00:34:46
make your listening more enjoyable in
00:34:48
the process so yeah I would love to read
00:34:50
your reviews and sure if you throw a
00:34:52
rating in there too that's great if you
00:34:54
like what I'm doing please share it with
00:34:56
me me it's such a great feeling to read
00:34:58
your feedback I'd love to read your
00:35:01
review or see a rating on Apple podcasts
00:35:03
or Spotify thank you so that that covers
00:35:07
a lot of the physical clutter at least
00:35:08
it covers some of the topic of physical
00:35:10
clutter I think I've seen Ros that you
00:35:12
you've written before about mental
00:35:14
clutter and and a connection between
00:35:16
routines and mental clutter can you
00:35:19
describe a little bit of of some of your
00:35:20
thoughts on that topic yeah so mental
00:35:23
clutter is trickier Than Physical
00:35:25
clutter because physical clutter if you
00:35:27
had a cluttered closet you could just go
00:35:28
in one day and I'm going to take out all
00:35:29
the things I don't use and love and
00:35:31
donate and trash and organize and it
00:35:32
looks great it'll stay that way for a
00:35:35
while maybe quite a while but in our
00:35:37
minds you know negative thought patterns
00:35:40
negative habits um ways we talk to
00:35:42
ourselves or patterns that we get into
00:35:45
when people say things to us or we're in
00:35:46
certain situations those can be much
00:35:49
trickier to let go of but they are also
00:35:52
cluttered because they're clouding us or
00:35:54
keeping us from living our best life and
00:35:56
so one of the things that I have found
00:35:58
to be most helpful is to just begin to
00:36:01
notice when those happen and it can be
00:36:04
really tricky and none of us are ever
00:36:06
going to catch it every single time but
00:36:08
let's say for example every time you
00:36:10
talk to your brother he says something
00:36:12
that makes you kind of feel a little bit
00:36:14
bad about yourself and it's not in a
00:36:16
direct way but maybe he's the older
00:36:18
brother and so he's always saying
00:36:19
something that makes you feel like oh
00:36:21
he's right I shouldn't have said that or
00:36:22
I shouldn't or I shouldn't try that and
00:36:24
you might notice like oh this is this is
00:36:26
a p pattern that every time that I talk
00:36:28
to this person they say something and it
00:36:30
kind of like makes me feel a little bit
00:36:32
put down so it's just something that you
00:36:33
can notice and then maybe going into
00:36:36
those situations again you can just be
00:36:38
aware of it and what's kind of powerful
00:36:40
about mental clutter is we think oh
00:36:42
let's just get rid of it that's really
00:36:44
hard but what's easier and also equally
00:36:48
as effective is just to notice that that
00:36:50
pattern is happening if every time you
00:36:52
interact with someone you start to feel
00:36:54
bad about yourself or even something
00:36:56
like I If you scroll on social media a
00:36:59
lot and and I I know this about my own
00:37:01
self which is why I don't scroll on
00:37:02
social media very often Instagram will
00:37:04
make me feel bad about myself I'll start
00:37:06
to feel oh I'm not good enough or my
00:37:09
business isn't good enough I'm not a
00:37:10
good enough parent whatever whatever
00:37:12
right you attach your own not good
00:37:13
enough to that that happens and so
00:37:16
becoming aware while scrolling I'm
00:37:19
feeling bad right now I could keep
00:37:21
scrolling after that but I'm much more
00:37:24
likely to choose to do something else
00:37:27
when I become aware that this is what's
00:37:29
going on inside of me right now because
00:37:32
it creates that little bit of pause that
00:37:35
gives us the opportunity to make a
00:37:36
choice so routines patterns like that's
00:37:40
kind of what I generally associate with
00:37:43
mental clutter it's the things that that
00:37:44
happen over and over again and a lot of
00:37:46
them are the same ones from when we were
00:37:48
kids not to like get deep into
00:37:50
psychology here or anything I was in
00:37:53
college and I had a a journal that I'd
00:37:55
kept since I was in second grade wow and
00:37:57
I didn't it wasn't like I wrote in it
00:37:59
every single day you know but I ended up
00:38:01
going back through and rereading some of
00:38:03
the things I'd written in second grade
00:38:04
and I had this aha moment where I
00:38:06
realized oh my gosh I have the same
00:38:09
problems that I had in second grade
00:38:11
where I'm worried that people won't like
00:38:12
me or I'm worried that I'm not good
00:38:15
enough or I'm worried that so and so
00:38:17
doesn't think that I'm cool those are
00:38:20
the same problems that I could even be
00:38:21
having today right I worry that people
00:38:23
won't like me or they don't think I'm
00:38:24
good enough or they don't think I'm cool
00:38:26
a lot of these things are things we were
00:38:28
so used to them that that they become
00:38:30
what we think of is the truth or they
00:38:32
become so normal and that's that power
00:38:34
of just oh noticing that this is what
00:38:37
I'm thinking and and that really weakens
00:38:39
it I think it's sort of like in The
00:38:41
Wizard of Oz when Dorothy sees the man
00:38:43
behind the curtain the Great and
00:38:44
Powerful Oz is really scary but when you
00:38:46
realize it's just a man behind the
00:38:47
curtain you're suddenly like oh that's
00:38:50
not what I thought it was so the
00:38:52
noticing of what's going on it's a
00:38:55
practice it's something that I
00:38:57
practice almost daily things like
00:38:59
meditation and so forth can be helpful
00:39:01
I'm not a great meditator I will admit
00:39:03
that I don't like to sit still and be
00:39:05
quiet and hum to myself whatever but
00:39:08
it's really training your mind to notice
00:39:10
when things are getting cluttered and
00:39:12
usually you can tell because there's
00:39:14
often physical things that happen too
00:39:16
like your heart will start racing you'll
00:39:17
start to feel anxious you'll feel like I
00:39:18
can't get everything done there's so
00:39:19
much to do or whatever your general
00:39:21
anxiety patterns are that's usually when
00:39:23
you can tell that mental clutter is
00:39:25
happening yeah that's interesting I was
00:39:27
wondering if that MW meditation would
00:39:29
come up well because I I like you I I
00:39:31
think I'm the most one of the most
00:39:33
amateur meditators out there but when
00:39:36
I've been practicing before and when
00:39:38
I've kind of gotten into a good
00:39:39
meditation habit one of the patterns I
00:39:41
noticed from the meditation commentator
00:39:44
whoever the person is who's kind of
00:39:45
talking me through the meditation in my
00:39:47
app is they they tell you things like
00:39:49
pay attention to your thoughts and where
00:39:52
are those thoughts coming from and why
00:39:54
you why are you even thinking the thing
00:39:55
that you're thinking right now it's such
00:39:57
a strange question to ask but until
00:39:59
someone's asked you that question most
00:40:02
people are blissfully unaware we just
00:40:04
assume that thoughts randomly pop into
00:40:07
our heads kind of completely out of our
00:40:09
control and therefore whatever feelings
00:40:11
or actions we take based on those
00:40:14
thoughts again it's it's not in our
00:40:16
control I got angry I I threw the
00:40:19
something across the room and I yelled
00:40:22
that that's not me that's just that's
00:40:24
just my thoughts and it's like well hold
00:40:25
on a second like if you really try to
00:40:28
slow things down and if you really pay
00:40:30
attention to what's going on in your
00:40:31
head you'll realize that a lot of that
00:40:33
was a choice maybe it felt a little
00:40:36
subconscious but it was a choice
00:40:38
somewhere within your mental clutter and
00:40:41
if you practiced organizing some of
00:40:43
those thoughts a little bit better it
00:40:44
takes some time it's not easy to do
00:40:47
because it's not tangible it's in your
00:40:48
head but if you practice these things in
00:40:51
the long run you'll you'll see some net
00:40:53
benefit yeah I'm I'm so glad that you
00:40:55
shared that it is hard and it it's also
00:40:58
something that I think if you've gone
00:41:01
down this road a little bit sometimes
00:41:02
you can feel like you're failing at it
00:41:04
because you'll find yourself doing the
00:41:06
same pattern that you used to do like Oh
00:41:07
I thought I was better I thought I was
00:41:09
over my self-esteem issues with this
00:41:11
person and and the thing is it's just
00:41:13
it's all practice which is I think why
00:41:15
people call it a meditation practice if
00:41:18
I ever met anyone who said they were a
00:41:20
meditation master I would Pro that's a
00:41:22
big red flag to me that I probably don't
00:41:23
want to listen to that person because
00:41:25
right any one who practices meditation
00:41:27
is a practitioner even the people who've
00:41:30
been doing it for years and years and
00:41:31
years are still practicing I've heard it
00:41:34
described as training a puppy if you've
00:41:37
ever tried to train a puppy they kind of
00:41:38
you know they're hard to train they get
00:41:39
distracted and they go off here totally
00:41:41
you gently try to pull them back and now
00:41:42
we're going to practice sitting and
00:41:43
they'll sit for a little bit and they'll
00:41:45
kind of wander off and the next day you
00:41:47
thought you made progress and they're
00:41:48
back to peeing on the floor again you're
00:41:50
like Oh I thought we worked on this and
00:41:51
so our minds are kind of like a
00:41:53
Perpetual puppy that we're always
00:41:54
training but they do eventually grow
00:41:56
maybe into an adolescent dog at some
00:41:59
point in time but yeah it's a continual
00:42:01
thing it's the kind of the next level
00:42:02
which is actually why I really recommend
00:42:05
if people are interested in this journey
00:42:06
that you start with the physical things
00:42:09
because they naturally as you create
00:42:11
that open physical space it's so
00:42:12
tangible it's so black and white it's so
00:42:15
before and after it's going to create
00:42:17
the mental space for you to start doing
00:42:19
that work inside and it makes that
00:42:23
inside work easier I feel like people
00:42:25
don't always see that there's a
00:42:26
connection to these two things but
00:42:29
starting with the physical space is
00:42:30
going to help you delve into the mental
00:42:32
space because they're very much
00:42:34
connected and and I know that because
00:42:36
generally when I started my business I
00:42:38
used to go to people's homes in person
00:42:41
and we would clear out closets
00:42:42
physically side by side and the thing
00:42:45
people always said to me when I left was
00:42:46
the same whether this person lived in
00:42:48
this sort of palacial residence or a
00:42:49
studio apartment they would say I feel
00:42:52
so much
00:42:54
better and so I started to notice that
00:42:56
the underlying similarity was the
00:42:58
feeling people had in an open clear
00:43:00
space so creating open clear physical
00:43:03
space will help you start to create open
00:43:04
clear mental space which makes it way
00:43:06
easier to examine some of the patterns
00:43:10
that are going on the scripts set of
00:43:12
running in the background of that mental
00:43:14
space that most of us aren't aware of
00:43:16
right and and it's funny some of those
00:43:18
scripts that you talked about obviously
00:43:20
I know a lot of them are they have to do
00:43:21
with relationships and how we see
00:43:23
ourselves in the world and and some of
00:43:24
that emotional side I mean there is we
00:43:27
can tie this back to personal finance
00:43:28
there's a spending script oh yeah and
00:43:30
and some of the people who I've talked
00:43:32
about before when you kind of pull back
00:43:33
and you say well what what were you
00:43:35
thinking I'm just curious what were you
00:43:37
thinking when you made that decision to
00:43:38
buy that thing that you now regret I
00:43:40
don't know what I was thinking yeah or
00:43:42
or it's almost like it's almost like
00:43:43
they were in some sort of it's like
00:43:45
asking someone who's addicted to
00:43:46
chocolate chip cookies like why why did
00:43:48
you eat the whole bag of chips aoy I
00:43:51
don't know it was just in front of me
00:43:52
and I went for it it's these it's these
00:43:54
old I don't want to say reptilian but
00:43:57
it's these old scripts somewhere in deep
00:43:59
within our brain that just are repeat
00:44:01
repeat repeat and maybe we get some
00:44:03
little high out of it or whatever it
00:44:05
might be I'm not a psychologist even
00:44:07
though I pretend to be one on podcast
00:44:09
but suffice to say Me too if you if you
00:44:12
you know sometimes if if you're aware of
00:44:14
the script when it starts to play you
00:44:16
can cut it off before it gets to the the
00:44:19
crescendo where you do something that
00:44:21
you'll later regret yeah it's that
00:44:23
awareness I read this book I don't know
00:44:24
if you ever read anything about eart to
00:44:26
so I know exactly who he is I I haven't
00:44:28
read his book though okay his book I
00:44:30
have it A New Earth one of the few books
00:44:32
I own but he talked about this thing he
00:44:34
called it watching The Thinker and that
00:44:37
was the first time that I realized you
00:44:40
could watch yourself think the
00:44:42
Consciousness that's thinking and the
00:44:44
Consciousness watching you think are not
00:44:46
the same and so sometimes is that kind
00:44:50
of wild it is it and I remember reading
00:44:52
this this was and this what kind of
00:44:53
coincided with the decluttering journey
00:44:55
I started reading this book and I
00:44:57
realized oh my gosh the things that I'm
00:44:59
thinking aren't necessarily me I can
00:45:01
watch myself thinking that about myself
00:45:05
so who's watching me that's really me
00:45:09
that's my Consciousness and it was wild
00:45:12
and just that realization changes the
00:45:14
way you show up in spaces changes the
00:45:17
way you interact with people I felt it
00:45:19
immediately makes you calmer because you
00:45:21
realize you're not at the mercy of these
00:45:23
incessant thoughts and and those are
00:45:26
brief moments there's these like little
00:45:27
brief moments of lightness and then you
00:45:30
go back to your daily life and you're
00:45:31
like I got to do all these things and oh
00:45:32
my gosh I'm behind on email that book
00:45:35
for me really started me on the the
00:45:39
Journey of starting to clear the mental
00:45:41
clutter even though I didn't realize it
00:45:43
at the time that that's what I was doing
00:45:44
but that's when that I returned to some
00:45:46
of those Concepts that I learned in that
00:45:49
book that is so cool at this point I
00:45:51
know that you're on a on a clock and
00:45:53
this I mean this has been an awesome 30
00:45:55
minute and even though there are other
00:45:57
questions I had written down honestly
00:45:59
like I think we're at an awesome point
00:46:02
and if unless there's anything that I
00:46:03
miss that you really want to hit on yeah
00:46:05
I love the direction that we took here
00:46:07
kind of and I think it's important for
00:46:08
people to realize like start with the
00:46:10
physical and that's important and that
00:46:11
matters and that's going to take you to
00:46:14
places you did not imagine mental
00:46:17
clutter Financial clutter relationship
00:46:20
clutter career clutter health and
00:46:22
wellness clutter things that you might
00:46:25
not have even thought of as clutter in
00:46:26
your life once you start clearing it
00:46:29
you're going to see it in all these
00:46:31
other areas of your life and then you
00:46:33
can clear it in those other places this
00:46:35
is still work that I do I've been doing
00:46:36
this for 10 years and I'm still finding
00:46:39
myself in the process of okay I have to
00:46:41
let go of that I'm done with it I need
00:46:44
to let it go yeah and it's no longer
00:46:46
about my coffee cups anymore but it's
00:46:48
about these deeper things that you and I
00:46:49
been getting into in this second half of
00:46:51
the conversation so I appreciate you
00:46:53
taking us there that's cool Rose well
00:46:55
you're welcome and and thank you for
00:46:57
coming on if if listeners want to get a
00:46:58
hold of you Rose if they want to check
00:47:00
out that tedex talk if they want to read
00:47:02
your blog how can they find you the best
00:47:04
place to go would be my website which is
00:47:06
Ros ly.com and for people listening
00:47:09
that's Rose lounsberry is Lou
00:47:12
nsbu r y it's like Berry a bone not
00:47:16
strawberry go to my website you'll have
00:47:18
links to all my social media my blog
00:47:20
posts you can watch my tedex and all the
00:47:22
good stuff there awesome and we will
00:47:24
throw those links into the show notes
00:47:27
Rose lsbury thank you for coming on to
00:47:29
the best interest podcast oh thanks
00:47:31
Jesse it's been
00:47:33
awesome thanks for tuning in to this
00:47:35
episode of the best interest podcast if
00:47:37
you have a question for Jesse to answer
00:47:39
on a future episode send him an email at
00:47:42
Jesse bestin interest. blog again that's
00:47:45
Jesse bestter interest. blog did you
00:47:48
enjoy the show subscribe rate and review
00:47:51
the podcast wherever you listen this
00:47:53
helps others find the show and in invest
00:47:56
in knowledge themselves and we really
00:47:58
appreciate it we'll catch you on the
00:47:59
next episode of the best interest
00:48:02
[Music]
00:48:04
podcast the best interest podcast is a
00:48:07
personal podcast met for education and
00:48:09
entertainment it should not be taken as
00:48:11
Financial advice and is not prescriptive
00:48:14
of your financial situation
