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welcome to the best interest podcast
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where we believe Benjamin Franklin's
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advice that an investment in knowledge
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pays the best interest both in finances
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and in your life every episode teaches
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you personal finance and investing in
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simple terms now here's your host Jesse
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Kramer welcome to episode 65 of the best
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interest podcast my name is Jesse Kramer
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later in the episode Chris Hutchins will
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be joining me Chris is the host of all
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the hacks one of the fastest growing
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podcasts out there let alone personal
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finance podcasts and Chris is really a a
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credit card points Master among other
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hacks that he loves and and why does
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Chris Love credit card points mainly
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it's because he's a travel hacker he
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loves to travel the world with his
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family for free so we're going to segue
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into some of Chris's Thoughts by first
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chatting a bit about travel specifically
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a good lesson or two from my recent
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trips to Ireland and England and also to
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Vietnam and Thailand but before that I
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want to give a quick shout out to this
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week's review of the week Jane thank you
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for writing in Jane Jane wrote in and
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said Jesse's podcast is fantastic I love
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the interviews and Jesse also does a
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great job explaining complex Financial
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topics I've really enjoyed listening and
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definitely recommend it to anyone who's
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looking to improve their finances and
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stay inspired along their
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Journey Jane thank you for the kind
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words if you're hearing this Jane if
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you're listening right now send me an
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email at Jesse bestin interest. blog and
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I'll get you hooked up with a nice
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little bestest
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gift okay let's travel to Vietnam really
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quick the traffic in Hanoi Hanoi Vietnam
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Kelly and I were there for a few days
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it's insane it is the wild west we
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witnessed it a little bit horrified
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firsthand stop signs red lights are
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completely optional uh there's no such
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thing as right of way that we might
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might be used to here in most western
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traffic patterns intersections they look
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and behave kind of like two crossing
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murmurations that's your vocabulary word
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of the day a murmuration is a cloud of
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birds specifically a cloud of Starlings
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that you might be familiar with right it
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kind of es and flows almost like it's
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fluid now if you can imagine two of
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those clouds of birds crossing paths
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you'd get a pretty good approximation of
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what a Hanoi intersection looks like
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with mopeds everywhere sidewalks in fact
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are used as moped parking lots so
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pedestrians walk in the streets and for
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pedestrians crossing the streets the the
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the dead serious how to advice I mean
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that the advice that you would see in a
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tourism guide if you were traveling to
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Vietnam is uh first when you're when
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you're crossing the street you should
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wait for a small dip in traffic density
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you're never going to get rid of all the
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traffic altogether but you should wait
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for the density to lighten up a little
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bit and then you have to commit to
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Crossing commit you've got to go and
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once you go do not change speed keep
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going across the street the traffic will
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see you and then they will go around
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them you have to trust the the moped
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drivers that they are going to go around
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you so in other words to to recap that
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advice you have to violate every impulse
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you've ever learned as a Wester you have
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to walk directly into traffic and you
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have to permit dozens of speeding mopeds
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to Miss You by 1 to 2 fet each it's
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insan
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and yet Vietnamese traffic works and
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that's the real point I want to drive
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here so so how does it work how is it
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that in this to to us westerners
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something that's completely insane how
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is it working I think it's because
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everyone in Vietnam all these drivers
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are playing by the same rules it might
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look and feel chaotic but it's organized
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and it's agreed upon even if it is a
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little bit chaotic even if it is chaos
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at least it's organized and agreed upon
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chaos the mopeds the drivers they all
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expect to slow down and to weave they
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all expect to get cut off even when they
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have green lights they all expect
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pedestrians to cross the street in front
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of them given you know 30 ft or so of
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heads up space there's some Universal
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non-verbal agreement among all the
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drivers and I really mean non-verbal we
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didn't hear a single Vietnamese person
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yell from their moped despite the
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craziness surrounding them traffic speed
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in Vietnam in Hanoi the speed is uniform
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and it's relatively cautious if the
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speed limit is 30 kmph then I would
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wager 98% of the drivers are following
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that exact speed limit nobody is going
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way over the speed limit unlike the USA
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and that to me at least makes sense
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because what is the number one cause of
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traffic accidents in the US it's not
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actually excessive speed in and of
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itself it's speed differential uniform
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speed if there is no speed speed
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differential because everyone's going
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the same speed uniform speed cuts down
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on accidents the fact that 99% of Hanoi
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citizens travel on mopeds these small
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quick flexible easy to break and easy to
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accelerate machines that certainly helps
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too I don't think you could do what
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Hanoi does if everyone was in full-size
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cars I don't necessarily think Vietnam's
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traffic pattern is optimal but
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nevertheless it proved to me that
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success is less about perfecting all the
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details and more about adoption and
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buyin the Vietnamese they make it work
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because they've all agreed to make it
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work they've all bought into the system
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and they're cooperating together now on
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the financial side I've seen some pretty
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weird financial habits in my time and if
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you're anything like me you've spent
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time trying to perfect the details of
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your financial habits what's the best
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budgeting system what's the optimal
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portfolio design what online bank has
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the best interest rate those are great
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questions to be asking but many people
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take those questions too far and they
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end up stalling their own implementation
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for fear of imperfect answers I'll say
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that again they end up stalling their
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implementation of good personal finance
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principles because they're fearful that
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their answers aren't quite perfect
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they're missing the forest for the trees
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they're sacrificing dollars in their
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quest for extra pennies and I'm here to
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tell you if you're using the third best
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budgeting system and the sixth best
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online bank that is infinitely better
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than stalling and not using any system
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at all it's better than the analysis
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paralysis of searching and waiting for
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the perfect Financial system should we
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try for good better best systems of
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course we should the compounding
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long-term benefits of great decisions
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are well they're great but strong
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adoption even of a substandard system it
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goes a really long way and if you're
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waiting to adopt the best financial
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habits stop stop it you're stalling
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you've got to commit you've got to go
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trust me it is easier than walking out
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in front of traffic and with that let's
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travel across the globe to Ireland Kelly
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and I were in Ireland and England here
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in early September of 2023 and you know
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the main benefit of traveling at least
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to me is observing the way other people
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and other cultures choose to live these
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cultural observations are amazing way to
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learn because sometimes you think wow
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that's a great idea
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we should be living more like this but
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other times you you count your lucky
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stars that you were born where you were
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and when you were or you might realize
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things that you've been missing your
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whole life because after all you don't
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know what you don't know one example my
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brother Zach uh he lives in Cork Ireland
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which is part of the reason why we
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visited my brother Zach my wife Kelly
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and I we took a fery about 12 miles out
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to sea to hike Skellig Michael among
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other things skele Michael is a UNESCO
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world heritage site and it's the
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location of some famous Luke Skywalker
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scenes in The Last Jedi you know the
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forest is
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[Applause]
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strong you might recognize it from Star
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Wars or even from just pictures you've
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seen in your life for its famous beehive
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huts we'll talk about that a little bit
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later because why is skele Michael
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famous in the first place back in the
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6th Century the bishop of Britain told a
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group of monks hey guys if if you really
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love God go spend the rest of your life
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on that island and build a monastery go
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preserve our sacred books and writings
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now as a writer and a reader I
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appreciate this in fact some historians
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actually credit Irish monks with saving
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Western Civilization via their
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dedication to preserving written
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documents so listening to the the bishop
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of Britain a group of monks they rode 12
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miles out to sea because remember there
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were no Motors this is the 6th Century
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so they Road out to sea to a steep
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Barren half mile diameter Rock
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completely exposed to the elements then
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in the words of Amon Aman was our Island
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guide they spent their lives hauling
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rocks and praying now sounds like fun
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well regarding that lifestyle to each
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their own if you want to haul rocks go
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ahead haul rocks I won't stop you but
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for me life has much more to offer at
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least Modern Life does because again
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according to Aon the monks of Skellig
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Michael they had a good lifestyle
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relative to their sixth Century peers
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wealthy landowners in England would send
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their children to skele Michael for the
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monks to teach them how to read the
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monks in return would request supplies
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to survive the island this exchange you
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know education for supplies this
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exchange enabled a better than average
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Lifestyle for the monks but again they
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spent their entire adult lives living in
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in these slate beehive Huts that they
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would build on an exposed rock in the
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middle of the sea on a sunny day fine I
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mean it could be a reasonable uh life
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and kind of comfortable on a sunny day
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but what about when the winter storms
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roll through and you're 12 mil off
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Mainland would you trade your current
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lifestyle whether it's above or below
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average for modern times would you trade
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that current lifestyle for the life of a
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monk on skele Michael I know my answer
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we have it pretty good so I'll I'll
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count my blessings and take the fish and
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chips and Guinness that we had in
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Ireland 10 out of 10 times but I also
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noticed a few things in Ireland that
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piqued my interest in the other
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direction so yes we had a few pints on
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the trip Stout is omnipresent in Ireland
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Guinness is by far the most popular in
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Ireland it's probably the one that
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you've heard of although other regions
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have a preference for Murphy's or
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Beamish and personally having sampled
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all three I'm a beish man myself and and
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what do you do when you're sipping your
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pint in a pub do you listen to Bon Jo
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and and watch sports on the TV well not
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quite because most of the Irish pubs
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that we visited they had no TVs and they
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had no piped in music instead they all
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featured dozens of local residents wait
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for it now they were talking to each
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other that's right the predominant sound
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of the pub was just the soft white noise
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of concurrent conversations and it was
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so nice it was so different than the
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typical American establishments where
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even a morning coffee spot usually has
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some sort of loud music that they pipe
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in in general the lifestyle in Ireland
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feels a full beat calmer quieter more
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Serene than life in America now are the
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reasons purely cultural does Irish
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history promote a quieter lifestyle
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compared to the go get them America uh
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do personal economics play a role taxes
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overall are much higher in Ireland so
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does that tend to push citizens towards
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relaxation and away from work or is
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America's hyper consumerism and
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advertising culture manipulating us to
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spend to play to do more more and more
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I'm not really sure what the reason is
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but my takeaway from this Ireland trip
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is that I'll continue working hard when
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it's time to work but I want to relax
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more I want to take life a beat slower
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for most Americans including me this
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relaxation is a two-fold process first
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is creating time to relax we're all
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given the same 24-hour day and we all
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face the same choices and challenges in
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how to use that time so I need to
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actively choose to create Quiet Moments
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in my day or in my week the second part
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is working on the ability to truly
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unwind that is to say you know work is
00:12:46
going well the best interest is going
00:12:48
well and they'll still be going well in
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an hour or in a day or however long a
00:12:54
period I'm choosing to relax many of us
00:12:56
struggle with that we've programmed our
00:12:58
brains on the notification Spectrum
00:13:01
right our subconscious knows that emails
00:13:04
are slowly dripping into our inboxes or
00:13:07
that text messages are coming into our
00:13:08
phone we can't let it go even when we're
00:13:11
quote unquote relaxing and that leads to
00:13:14
some sort of constant level of stress
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right notifications work the answers
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that we owe people it's always on our
00:13:21
mind it's always causing some stress uh
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it's a bit too much so when I'm feeling
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overwhelmed and even when I'm not
00:13:29
feeling overwhelmed I'm going to
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deliberately carve some time into my day
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into my week for relaxation I'm going to
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think back to that quiet Pub in drizzly
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Cork Ireland where the people chatted
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over the backdrop of traditional Irish
00:13:45
music Here's a quick ad and then we'll
00:13:48
get back to the show every week I send a
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quick free email to thousands of readers
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that shares three Simple Things One my
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over the Internet and three a financial
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chart that explains some important
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Concept in the news that week it's a
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great primer to boost your financial
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knowhow but Jesse I don't want another
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email well this might not be for you but
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I do hear you which is why I make it
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very short sweet and full of only the
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essentials while 18% of people who sign
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maybe you will too you can subscribe for
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free on the homepage at bestter
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interest. blog again that's a free no
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strings attached subscription at bestter
00:14:44
interest. blog Chris Hutchins is an avid
00:14:48
Life Hacker Financial Optimizer and host
00:14:50
of the award-winning podcast all the
00:14:52
hacks where he shares his quest to
00:14:54
upgrade his life without having to spend
00:14:56
a fortune Chris was featured in the
00:14:58
financial Independence documentary
00:14:59
playing with fire great movie by the way
00:15:02
and he's been covered by the New York
00:15:03
Times Wall Street Journal and CNBC I've
00:15:06
heard of those Rags maybe you have two
00:15:08
Chris thank you for joining us today and
00:15:11
I thought we could start today's
00:15:12
conversation with just the the the title
00:15:14
of your podcast all the hacks and
00:15:16
something you spend your time doing
00:15:18
hacking or life hacking I've heard
00:15:20
different connotations to it before so
00:15:22
from your point of view what's a good
00:15:24
definition of Life hacking and maybe
00:15:27
what are some of the bad definitions of
00:15:28
Life hacking that you don't think people
00:15:30
should pay attention to well first off
00:15:33
thanks for having me second off you
00:15:35
forgot in my accolades uh sharing the
00:15:37
stage with you on uh in fincon so
00:15:40
there's that totally true big big
00:15:42
question it's funny because there's a
00:15:45
guy named Rich Roll who has a podcast
00:15:46
that's larger than both of ours very
00:15:48
very well known in the health and
00:15:49
fitness space and I was meeting him for
00:15:52
the first time and I I saw his video he
00:15:53
made where he said I hate hacks I hate
00:15:55
life hacks and he has a he's like
00:15:57
notably has a video about this this
00:15:58
topic and I thought man this is could to
00:16:00
be interesting I wonder what he thinks
00:16:02
so I told him about my shtick if you
00:16:04
will and he was like oh I love it and I
00:16:06
was like what here's a guy who said he
00:16:08
doesn't like hacks he doesn't like life
00:16:10
hacks and he loves what I'm doing he
00:16:11
goes I think there's too many people out
00:16:13
there that think hacks are just like a
00:16:15
way to not work not try hard he's like
00:16:18
it seems like what you're trying to do
00:16:19
is find the most efficient way to try
00:16:22
hard and get the outcome you're not
00:16:23
trying to not get the hard outcome
00:16:26
you're just trying to find an efficient
00:16:27
way to do it he's like and that I love
00:16:30
and so I never really thought about how
00:16:32
to define hacki it was just something I
00:16:34
talked about and now I think it's not
00:16:36
about finding the easy way out it's not
00:16:40
about trying to you know scam scam is
00:16:42
the wrong word but it's like I'm not
00:16:44
trying to cheat the system I'm not
00:16:45
trying to negotiate a discount that puts
00:16:48
a company out of business like I'm just
00:16:49
trying to say if you want a thing
00:16:52
there's probably maybe something you
00:16:54
want that you didn't even know you want
00:16:55
that's better maybe a better way to get
00:16:57
it maybe another alternative
00:16:59
and my entire life is all about finding
00:17:02
those things through what I've now
00:17:04
created some principles around but like
00:17:06
a process to make sure you're getting
00:17:08
the most optimal outcome my working
00:17:10
title for this book is like is it is it
00:17:12
better outcomes like is that what it's
00:17:14
all about like the hacks who cares if
00:17:17
you find an efficient way to get there
00:17:18
what you want is the better outcome and
00:17:20
the way you maximize the most better
00:17:21
outcomes is you find the most efficient
00:17:23
way to get to each one of them and then
00:17:25
that leaves you the time to find other
00:17:27
ones and that better outcome by way
00:17:28
could be you know I need to repair my
00:17:30
HVAC system or it could be I need to get
00:17:32
in shape and be healthy it could be
00:17:34
macro it could be very micro so right so
00:17:37
hacks aren't necessarily
00:17:39
shortcuts but they are often Time Savers
00:17:42
or effort Savers and some way where my
00:17:45
mind went to Chris was the whole idea of
00:17:47
a diet in a pill and that's not
00:17:50
necessarily A Life Hack because as Rich
00:17:53
Ro would probably say that's not real
00:17:56
but instead what you're talking about
00:17:58
are well if you're going to diet let's
00:18:00
talk about the most efficient ways to do
00:18:02
it and the most effective ways to do it
00:18:04
uh if you are going to do sit-ups and
00:18:05
get a sixpack here's the right technique
00:18:07
here's the wrong technique it's more
00:18:09
about refining the practices to get the
00:18:12
most out of your time and effort as
00:18:14
opposed to finding these you know kind
00:18:16
of ridiculous shortcuts to completely
00:18:19
skip around time and effort in the first
00:18:21
place yes although every now and then
00:18:23
there is one so I am not a doctor I'm
00:18:26
not going to go down whatever could be
00:18:28
the risks of it but these glp1 drugs AIC
00:18:31
mararo from the doctors I've talked to
00:18:34
they're close to like Miracle weight
00:18:37
loss drugs so sometimes the there is a
00:18:40
hack sometimes there's something that's
00:18:42
now the downside is it's super expensive
00:18:43
so the question is like is there a way
00:18:46
to get it cheaper right now I don't have
00:18:47
an answer for you the only way I know to
00:18:49
get it covered by insurance is to have
00:18:51
diabetes and I promise you if your goal
00:18:52
is to be healthy getting diabetes for
00:18:55
the purpose of losing weight is not is
00:18:57
not the fact not the way
00:18:59
yeah but but I'll give you an
00:19:01
interesting example and it's probably
00:19:02
taking it to a gross place right off the
00:19:04
start so sorry everybody we have a one
00:19:08
of the toilets in our house is lower
00:19:11
than the sewer lines and so we have a
00:19:13
sump pump that basically has to take
00:19:15
everything that comes to the toilet and
00:19:17
and send it out and that sum pump and
00:19:20
maybe it's not a sump pump but it's a
00:19:21
some kind of pumping thing that grinds
00:19:23
everything up one of the problems is
00:19:25
that paper just over time floats to the
00:19:29
top clumps up and and needs to be
00:19:31
cleaned out and so I was trying to
00:19:32
figure out like what is the cheapest way
00:19:35
to get someone to come do this because
00:19:36
it's a shitty job literally so I was
00:19:39
like okay how often does he need to come
00:19:41
is there a plumber that's affordable and
00:19:43
I started thinking like is there another
00:19:44
way to do this and I was calling a few
00:19:46
people just to brainstorm like there has
00:19:47
to be a better solution like surely this
00:19:49
is a thing that lots of people deal with
00:19:51
many people have basements and my mom
00:19:53
was like have you ever thought about
00:19:55
using RV disintegrable toilet paper and
00:19:58
I was was like No And so he switched and
00:20:01
now this bathroom just this bathroom
00:20:03
maybe it's not quite the three ply you
00:20:05
get everywhere else in the house like
00:20:06
this bathroom has dis like toilet paper
00:20:09
designed for an RV that disintegrates
00:20:12
problem solved my original solution was
00:20:14
like what is the cheapest way to get
00:20:16
someone to come out every three months
00:20:19
to clean something in my house which
00:20:20
would have been hundreds of dollars a
00:20:23
year maybe $1,000 a year the alternative
00:20:26
solution took a little bit of outside of
00:20:27
the box thinking took a little bit of
00:20:29
talking to other people with
00:20:30
perspectives I didn't have I've never
00:20:31
owned an RV like it never crossed my
00:20:33
mind to even go there and so that that's
00:20:35
a hack but you know it's a different
00:20:39
approach it might not be the best
00:20:41
example but it's certainly an example of
00:20:43
a problem I had to solve and I found a
00:20:46
solution that was so much better that
00:20:48
doesn't fall in the scope of what people
00:20:50
normally think about when it's like life
00:20:51
hacks and it's just about finding a deal
00:20:53
or a discount or a coupon code out of
00:20:55
the box thinking even out of the bowl
00:20:57
thinking on all the hacks podcast it's a
00:21:00
great example it is it's Unique
00:21:02
solutions to problems solutions that you
00:21:04
might not have heard of before it's one
00:21:06
of the reason why I enjoy the podcast is
00:21:08
because you know on a fairly regular
00:21:10
basis you'll have on a guest Chris where
00:21:12
I'm like oh I've never really thought
00:21:13
about that and that that makes a lot of
00:21:15
sense to me but I will say probably your
00:21:18
biggest recurring topic or at least one
00:21:20
of them has to be credit card points
00:21:23
it's something you clearly love and and
00:21:27
when I listen actually you might frown
00:21:29
at me I've never spent time to really
00:21:32
dig into credit card points and thus my
00:21:34
credit card is very basic I think I get
00:21:37
1.5% back on every dollar I spend full
00:21:40
stop that's it no bonuses here no
00:21:43
special deals there so maybe for someone
00:21:46
like me this this G be a two-part
00:21:48
question Chris so maybe we can start
00:21:50
with the first part of just you can give
00:21:52
us some sort of Deep dive on your love
00:21:54
of credit card points and where it came
00:21:55
from and and kind of How It's helped you
00:21:57
over the years but I'd love you maybe to
00:21:59
segue also into what some credit card
00:22:02
rookies like me how we can filter down
00:22:05
to find the best credit card for our
00:22:08
needs I got a lot of answers here so
00:22:11
first off if if I don't remember to come
00:22:14
back to what you should specifically do
00:22:15
we have to hit that okay but one of the
00:22:17
things I found interesting about credit
00:22:18
card content on the internet was that
00:22:21
there are some amazing websites about
00:22:23
credit card content I love them and if
00:22:25
you want to go deep down the rabbit hole
00:22:26
frequent Myer is one of my favorite
00:22:28
websites
00:22:29
however every few days I get an email
00:22:32
from them about all the recent blog
00:22:33
posts and they're producing probably 50
00:22:36
pieces of content a week on points miles
00:22:39
and for the average person it's too much
00:22:41
yeah and so what I realized is I love
00:22:43
this topic but I can't create a show
00:22:45
about it because then the only people
00:22:47
that are going to benefit from it are
00:22:48
people that also love this topic and
00:22:51
that's not what I my goal my goal was to
00:22:53
help as many people as possible improve
00:22:55
their lives save money be happier be
00:22:57
healthier be wealthier and all of that
00:22:59
and so I realized if I want to talk
00:23:01
about travel points and miles it can't
00:23:03
just be a show about that which is
00:23:04
actually good because I don't want to
00:23:06
spend my whole life talking about travel
00:23:07
points and Miles when I meet someone and
00:23:09
they're like oh I could talk about this
00:23:10
for days I'm like I don't want to I want
00:23:12
to hit the highlights because I think
00:23:14
it's really interesting and I'll tell
00:23:15
you why but I'm also interested in
00:23:18
improving my health I'm also interested
00:23:20
in building a business I'm also
00:23:21
interested in saving money and investing
00:23:22
for the long run and earning the most
00:23:24
interest and you know returns I can and
00:23:27
so
00:23:28
the reason why I keep coming back to it
00:23:30
though is that one of the biggest we'll
00:23:33
call it variable costs in people's lives
00:23:36
there is house hacking I've done an
00:23:38
episode on it it'll help you reduce
00:23:39
probably your biggest expense and we can
00:23:42
go systematically through someone's
00:23:43
budget and and optimize for saving money
00:23:47
and I've done this as a practice for
00:23:48
myself helping other people I think at
00:23:51
the end of the day there's this whole
00:23:53
movement to save money Financial
00:23:55
Independence save as much as possible
00:23:57
the problem is you're it's a lot of
00:23:58
deprivation and so I think if you say
00:24:01
let's house hack so that I can lower my
00:24:03
cost great but if you're trying to save
00:24:05
money you often end up cutting out the
00:24:08
things that bring you above the line if
00:24:10
here's a baseline where you just live
00:24:12
and work and that's it you save all this
00:24:14
money by reducing your cost I want to go
00:24:16
above and travel was one of these things
00:24:18
that is pretty expensive to go on a trip
00:24:21
on an airplane stay at hotels do
00:24:23
activities with a couple people or a
00:24:26
family of four like it could be
00:24:27
thousands of
00:24:28
so I think for people trying to save
00:24:30
money it gets cut a lot and it's one of
00:24:33
their biggest expenses and travel
00:24:34
hacking is a way to bring down the cost
00:24:37
of that travel so much that it makes it
00:24:41
much more accessible whether you're
00:24:43
trying to bring a $50,000 trip down to$
00:24:45
5,000 or you're trying to bring a $5,000
00:24:47
trip to $100 like for anyone across any
00:24:50
amount of money I think travel hacking
00:24:52
can have a huge impact and I also say
00:24:55
that travel is part of the reason I've
00:24:56
become such a good optimizer
00:24:58
some of the reasons that I found
00:25:00
interesting out of the- boox solutions
00:25:02
to millions of things in my lives is
00:25:05
that when you go visit other places you
00:25:07
realize people do things differently and
00:25:09
the more you train your brain and your
00:25:11
mind and your subconscious to just think
00:25:13
wow the way I've always done this isn't
00:25:16
the only way the way my parents told me
00:25:19
I should do something doesn't
00:25:20
necessarily have to be right you know
00:25:23
there's this old adage of like the only
00:25:24
way to build wealth is through real
00:25:26
estate and lots of people's parents have
00:25:28
told them that right I don't think it's
00:25:30
true I think it is a way and I think for
00:25:33
a lot of people in a lot of
00:25:34
circumstances it's not the best way I
00:25:36
think people have to force themselves to
00:25:38
think about life from millions of
00:25:40
perspectives to find the hacks and so
00:25:43
that's why I love travel and I love
00:25:44
travel hacking because I'd much rather
00:25:47
spend $500 than $10,000 on a trip and
00:25:51
and so travel hacking for the
00:25:52
uninitiated what you're saying Chris is
00:25:54
that it it almost always involves using
00:25:57
some sort of credit card points some
00:25:59
sort of maybe airline miles through a
00:26:01
credit card to reduce the price of your
00:26:04
flights reduce the price of your hotels
00:26:06
maybe reduce the price of things I'm I'm
00:26:08
not thinking of I mean is that kind of
00:26:10
the the whole idea of travel hacking and
00:26:11
how you got
00:26:12
into yeah at its highest level I think
00:26:15
when you're spending money and you have
00:26:17
the option to use a credit card and not
00:26:19
pay fees right there are some Merchants
00:26:21
that will say oh if you want to pay for
00:26:22
with your bank account or a debit card
00:26:24
it's free if you want to pay with a
00:26:25
credit card you have to pay 3% a lot of
00:26:27
people rent does this uh unless you have
00:26:30
the built card which if anyone doesn't
00:26:31
and you pay rent alth hacks.com built is
00:26:34
my personal link you get earn points on
00:26:36
rent it's a great card but aside from
00:26:39
that there when you spend money
00:26:41
Merchants are paying a percentage for
00:26:43
processing that credit card and some
00:26:46
credit cards will give you none of it
00:26:47
back and some credit cards will give you
00:26:48
more of it back so if the Merchant's
00:26:50
going to pay the fee when you use a
00:26:52
credit card you might as well use the
00:26:53
best card possible now you could decide
00:26:55
that you don't want to you want to pay
00:26:57
cash and the merchant won't pay the fee
00:26:59
and they'll probably earn a little bit
00:27:00
of extra that's up to you but if you're
00:27:02
spending money on a credit card you can
00:27:03
earn something back and you just have to
00:27:06
decide how you want to use it and the
00:27:07
reason travel hacking is so compelling
00:27:10
is that if Done Right which takes some
00:27:13
work you can make the average point you
00:27:16
earn worth anywhere on the low end from
00:27:19
two to maybe 10 cents on the high end so
00:27:22
if you had a card that gives you two
00:27:24
points back per dollar just flat two
00:27:27
point back and you can make it worth two
00:27:29
to 10 cents you're effectively getting
00:27:32
somewhere between 4 and 20% cash back
00:27:35
there isn't a cashback card that does
00:27:37
that so the reason I love travel hacking
00:27:38
is for that purpose if you decide I
00:27:41
don't travel enough I don't want to put
00:27:42
in the time and energy into you know
00:27:45
making sure that I'm you know using
00:27:47
these rewards optimally which isn't that
00:27:49
hard but it's definitely more work than
00:27:51
just taking the cash back then fine
00:27:54
there are cards that will give you 2%
00:27:55
flat cash back so one one and a half
00:27:58
like at a minimum switch to a card
00:28:00
that'll give you 2% cash back City
00:28:02
double cash will is is kind of the most
00:28:04
notorious and I have no complaints about
00:28:07
the city double cash other than they
00:28:09
charge you a 3% foreign transaction fee
00:28:11
if you're traveling so it's not a great
00:28:12
International card but 2% cash back on
00:28:15
everything domestically highly recommend
00:28:17
over one and a half percent on anything
00:28:19
got 2% is table Stakes well let's dive
00:28:21
deeper into that topic Chris what are
00:28:22
some other questions I should be asking
00:28:24
myself to to filter down to the best
00:28:26
card for my need s yeah so it's
00:28:29
interesting
00:28:31
because I actually spent a ton of time
00:28:33
trying to figure this out and and on the
00:28:34
point side not the cashback side I built
00:28:36
this spreadsheet and I put 30 or so
00:28:39
cards in it that I thought were the most
00:28:41
common cards you can put in your exact
00:28:43
spending I spend this much a year in
00:28:45
these categories and it doesn't have to
00:28:47
be perfect by the way and you can go in
00:28:49
and check I wish that I could probably
00:28:51
like layer some AI I haven't done that
00:28:53
you go check a bunch of cards and say
00:28:55
what am I going to effectively earn with
00:28:57
this compy combo and what I did was I
00:28:59
said okay for the average spending
00:29:01
pattern which like Bureau of Labor
00:29:02
Statistics consumer expenditure survey
00:29:04
average six figure household how do they
00:29:06
spend money and the answer was there was
00:29:10
a two card combo that was the best
00:29:12
however as you added more and more cards
00:29:15
like I'm the crazy person with you know
00:29:17
12 15 credit cards past two you're you
00:29:20
really start to get diminishing returns
00:29:22
unless you have some really big use
00:29:23
cases right if you spend thousands of
00:29:27
dollars a year on flights or or tens of
00:29:30
thousands of dollars a year the MX
00:29:31
Platinum earns five points per dollar on
00:29:33
flights it's probably a good one to add
00:29:35
Your Arsenal if you don't spend that
00:29:36
much money on flights a year the annual
00:29:38
fee is you know there's a bunch of
00:29:40
coupon like kind of rebates and credits
00:29:42
that kind of counter the annual fee but
00:29:44
it might not be worth it but for the
00:29:45
average person it was two cards and it
00:29:48
was basically a catchall card which in
00:29:51
the cash back world would be a 2% cash
00:29:53
back card and in the points world would
00:29:55
be a two points per dollar card H for me
00:29:58
that card is the Capital One venture or
00:29:59
Venture X it's my like I literally am
00:30:02
it's sitting on my desk right here we're
00:30:04
not recording video for you all
00:30:05
listening but it's it's like on my Des
00:30:07
it's the card it's one of two cards I
00:30:09
carry in my wallet as someone with a lot
00:30:10
of cards I carry a wallet that snaps the
00:30:12
back of my iPhone has a driver's license
00:30:14
and two credit cards The Venture X is
00:30:16
like my staple because it's 2x
00:30:19
everything then you want to optimize for
00:30:21
a card that maximizes your spending
00:30:23
wherever you spend the most money for
00:30:25
the average household
00:30:27
that I found that card was the AMX gold
00:30:30
because it's four points per dollar on
00:30:32
dining and four points per dollar on
00:30:34
groceries got it that onew combo was
00:30:37
pretty simple however I will throw a
00:30:40
caveat in here that is in order to get
00:30:42
the maximum value out of both of those
00:30:44
cards you're going to need to play some
00:30:46
of the travel hacking game if you want
00:30:49
to reserve the right to not have to play
00:30:51
some of the travel hacking game there
00:30:53
are other combos for cashback or I think
00:30:56
Chase has a a great middleof the road
00:31:00
option which is you could add and and I
00:31:02
think if the one two on Chase is one of
00:31:04
the Chase Sapphire cards the sapphire
00:31:06
Reserve or the sapphire preferred and
00:31:07
the freedom unlimited now keep in mind
00:31:09
the freedom unlimited is only going to
00:31:10
earn one and a half percent on
00:31:12
everything not two but Chase gives you
00:31:16
this ability to use the points in their
00:31:19
travel portal and if you have a safire
00:31:21
card whether it's Reserve or preferred
00:31:23
you get a little extra value they're
00:31:24
either worth 1.25 or 1.5
00:31:27
so like I think it's a compelling
00:31:29
alternative to cash back to match those
00:31:31
two cards you earn all your points in
00:31:33
one platform so you're not trying to say
00:31:36
oh I've got some AMX points here I've
00:31:37
got some Capital One points here that
00:31:39
could be tough an alternative though is
00:31:41
also the Venture and I know this is
00:31:43
going deep but like the The Venture and
00:31:45
the SA or sa one card on Capital One is
00:31:48
another good combo because the sa card
00:31:51
has high return on dining and groceries
00:31:53
as well if you want to stay all within
00:31:54
the Capital One ecosystem and honestly
00:31:56
you could you could also go City double
00:31:58
cash and City premiere like within each
00:32:00
card ecosystem there's kind of two cards
00:32:03
that are make it for a great combo got
00:32:05
it and I think until you get deep into
00:32:07
this having to say well I've got I've
00:32:09
got 20,000 chase points and 40,000 this
00:32:11
point it's hard if they're all in
00:32:12
different places yeah so like yeah the
00:32:15
only one I will say doesn't work on its
00:32:17
own well is AMX because AMX just doesn't
00:32:19
have a good everything else card
00:32:22
interesting they have a business card
00:32:23
that'll give you one and a half points
00:32:25
if you own a business and it's capped at
00:32:28
$50,000 a year like it just there's a
00:32:30
lot going on there so when you want to
00:32:32
play two cards across different programs
00:32:34
I think the MX gold is awesome it's the
00:32:36
other card that I keep in my wallet but
00:32:39
yeah you could go down a deep dark
00:32:40
Rabbit Hole however I say all of this
00:32:44
and there's like two interesting things
00:32:45
to point out one I should have said
00:32:47
earlier if you're not paying off your
00:32:48
credit cards in full and you have a
00:32:50
balance and you don't have the cash to
00:32:51
do it this is not your game credit card
00:32:53
interest especially right now with high
00:32:55
interest rates is so high that no amount
00:32:59
of points and anything is worth carrying
00:33:01
a balance so step one pay for cards the
00:33:04
other interesting thing is Let's Pretend
00:33:07
which is not even possible but let's
00:33:09
pretend that you could open up a bunch
00:33:12
of credit cards that somehow manage to
00:33:15
make all the categories you spend money
00:33:17
on Forex right everything is four points
00:33:20
per dollar which is is actually really
00:33:22
hard and no matter how many cards I
00:33:25
layer into my model which look if
00:33:27
anyone's interested you can go to aloh
00:33:28
hacks.com cardv Val I have it there you
00:33:31
can pay as little as a dollar and and
00:33:33
get access to this spreadsheet that I
00:33:34
spent a bunch of time on and you can
00:33:36
play for yourself no matter how many
00:33:37
cards I add I cannot get the points per
00:33:41
dollar above three 3x because there's
00:33:43
just so many expenses that don't have
00:33:45
multipliers but let's just say you could
00:33:50
and you went and spent let's say
00:33:53
$55,000 okay and and that $5,000 could
00:33:56
ear earn 4X points you'd earn 20,000
00:34:00
points which is great you know I'd say
00:34:03
if you can get two cents of value that's
00:34:04
like
00:34:05
$400 but the interesting thing is if you
00:34:08
were to open up the capital 1 Venture X
00:34:10
card from scratch you would earn 75,000
00:34:14
miles for spending
00:34:16
$4,000 plus you'd get two x points on
00:34:19
the $4,000 so you get another $8,000
00:34:21
points so you're sitting at 83,000
00:34:24
points on
00:34:25
$4,000 if you could somehow perfectly
00:34:28
find a mixture of cards that I don't
00:34:30
think exists to earn four points per
00:34:32
dollar and spend $5,000 you'd have
00:34:35
20,000 got it so the number of points
00:34:38
you can earn in that example 83,000
00:34:40
points on top of spending $4,000 that's
00:34:45
20.75 points per dollar which if they're
00:34:47
wereth two cents is 41 a half% cash back
00:34:52
like astronomical so the way many people
00:34:56
play this game
00:34:57
is they focus on these giant welcome
00:35:00
bonuses that cards are offering as the
00:35:02
way to accumulate points and and
00:35:05
especially earlier in your career
00:35:07
earlier in your life when you're not
00:35:08
spending lots of money it's just picking
00:35:11
the perfect card is is not as impactful
00:35:15
as jumping on a really big welcome bonus
00:35:18
when it comes out that's like the the
00:35:20
reality is we spend all this time
00:35:22
building models which I did on like
00:35:23
what's the best few cards but even if
00:35:26
you spend a100
00:35:27
perfectly you're going to get 265,000
00:35:30
points if you open the right two credit
00:35:32
cards you'll get the same number of
00:35:34
points same number of points interesting
00:35:36
and we don't have time to go into the
00:35:38
crazy Nuance of all of this but I'll
00:35:40
send you a link to a Twitter post which
00:35:42
a guy and his wife went through this
00:35:44
process to open up I believe it was like
00:35:46
25 cards he and his wife over the course
00:35:49
of 18 months which sounds insane to most
00:35:51
people listening it sounds insane to me
00:35:52
even though I'm in this space and the
00:35:54
crazy thing was his wife started with a
00:35:56
six 70 credit score they opened 23 or 24
00:35:59
cards so she probably opened at least a
00:36:01
dozen and ended with a
00:36:02
798 he started with a 794 and ended with
00:36:06
an 805 so like the impact on credit from
00:36:09
doing this was positive which is
00:36:11
probably counter to what most people
00:36:13
would assume and I think he earned in
00:36:15
this entire
00:36:17
process it was over a million points for
00:36:19
sure I just can't remember the exact
00:36:20
number whether it was one or two or
00:36:22
three and so if you want to accumulate
00:36:25
points as fast as possible that's a way
00:36:26
to do it I try to keep on all the
00:36:29
hacks.com cards a list of all the cards
00:36:31
and their bonuses and for me somewhere
00:36:34
between 75 and 100,000 points is like
00:36:37
the threshold for a great offer the
00:36:39
closer it gets to 100 that's when I'm
00:36:41
like o this is great and if it's over
00:36:43
that even better and then the other rule
00:36:45
is I really try to accumulate points
00:36:48
with places that make them flexible so
00:36:51
if you accumulate chase points chase
00:36:53
points can transfer to United chase
00:36:55
points can transfer to Hyatt they can
00:36:56
transfer to Air Canada they can transfer
00:36:58
to British Airways they can transfer to
00:36:59
Air France and so the way you get the
00:37:01
most value out of these programs is you
00:37:03
transfer your points to the airline
00:37:05
program or Hotel Group and book directly
00:37:08
with them and that's where we could go
00:37:11
too far down a rabbit hole and and maybe
00:37:13
we'll have to come back and talk about
00:37:14
it or I've probably done five or 10
00:37:16
episodes on this and you can go search
00:37:18
for them but I prefer that so yes you
00:37:22
could go get probably 150,000 Hilton
00:37:25
points but you're only going to be able
00:37:26
to use them at Hilton I would much
00:37:28
rather by the way I would much rather
00:37:30
have 75,000 Chase Capital One points or
00:37:33
AMX points than 15,000 Hilton points
00:37:36
because fil yeah and unfortunately the
00:37:39
value of Hotel points um outside of
00:37:42
hayatt IHG Marriott Choice Hotels Hilton
00:37:46
they're all like somewhere around half a
00:37:49
cent 6 cents. 7 cents so it's just a lot
00:37:52
less value whereas the value of most
00:37:54
frequent flyer miles and high
00:37:57
is probably closer to one to one and a
00:37:59
half cents so I just want the
00:38:02
flexibility because sometimes my wife
00:38:04
and I were planning a trip with our kids
00:38:06
last year right around this time to go
00:38:07
to London and Paris and the absolute
00:38:10
best deal and just an example of how
00:38:13
valuable your points could be you know
00:38:14
we have enough points we're going to go
00:38:15
in business class and the flights in
00:38:17
business class were somewhere around the
00:38:19
I think like six or
00:38:22
7,000 the best deal to get to London or
00:38:25
Paris and we were we didn't care which
00:38:27
city we started in and we had some
00:38:28
flexibility well the best deal to get to
00:38:30
Paris was on Air France and we booked
00:38:34
with Air France we flew direct flights
00:38:36
SFO to Air France I think it was 65,000
00:38:38
Points each way uh but we we booked one
00:38:42
the best way back was on United and
00:38:44
United wanted 880,000 points but if I
00:38:46
booked it on Turkish air on the exact
00:38:48
same United flight if I booked it
00:38:50
through Turkish airs program it was
00:38:51
40,000 points wow Turkish airs a
00:38:54
Transfer Partner of Capital One put put
00:38:56
my Capital One points there so for
00:38:58
105,000 points per person which I know
00:39:00
for some people getting started seems
00:39:02
crazy and by the way you don't need to
00:39:04
fly business class you could do it in
00:39:05
economy for probably 40,000 points but
00:39:08
I've played this game long enough and
00:39:10
you know that's what I'm doing now so
00:39:12
for 105,000 points we got a $6,000
00:39:14
flight now what what does that actually
00:39:17
mean well $6,000 100,000 points we were
00:39:20
getting about six cents a point would I
00:39:22
have paid for that business class flight
00:39:24
with cash if I had no points
00:39:27
maybe if it was like two grand yeah
00:39:29
probably not if it was six grand so
00:39:31
maybe you could argue it's only worth
00:39:32
two cents a point not six but there's no
00:39:35
way you could argue that I would have
00:39:37
been better off with cashback and we got
00:39:39
to go to London I guarantee you if we
00:39:41
didn't have the points even though I
00:39:43
think the flight is a fair price at two
00:39:45
or three grand we weren't going to spend
00:39:46
$155,000 to go to London one of the big
00:39:49
takeaways I'm I'm getting here Chris is
00:39:51
you can get a lot out of the travel
00:39:53
hacking credit card point game but it's
00:39:55
certainly a function of what you're
00:39:57
willing to put in meaning like all right
00:39:59
you know if I want to stay on the simple
00:40:01
side of things it sounds like I should
00:40:03
definitely be getting a card that gets
00:40:04
me at least 2% back on everything and I
00:40:07
should probably look at my and Kelly's
00:40:09
budget look at our biggest expenditure
00:40:11
it probably is groceries and dining out
00:40:13
outside of Housing and and car costs but
00:40:16
find a secondary card that gives me
00:40:18
extra points for those things that I'm
00:40:20
spending the most on if they come with
00:40:22
welcome bonuses even better but it
00:40:25
sounds like if you really want to go
00:40:26
deep and open 10 plus cards and get tons
00:40:30
of Welcome bonuses and pay off your
00:40:32
cards every month which is probably the
00:40:34
most important thing that we're talking
00:40:35
about today you know it's this little
00:40:36
caveat but you don't want to run credit
00:40:38
card debt but if you're willing to keep
00:40:40
track of everything and go deep you can
00:40:43
fly to France for free business class
00:40:45
yeah and by the way like we didn't
00:40:48
always fly business class and so if you
00:40:50
could fly to France in economy you know
00:40:52
here's a great example I think if you
00:40:54
timed it right and got the best deal you
00:40:55
could probably do a a flight to France
00:40:58
with those 83,000 points from Capital
00:41:00
One from just spending $4,000 I think
00:41:03
83,000 points it it'd be close but I
00:41:06
think there's a world where you could
00:41:07
you could absolutely get to France in
00:41:09
economy you could probably get round
00:41:11
trip for that if you timed it right and
00:41:13
you you know you got the right deals and
00:41:14
prices and everything which means open
00:41:16
one card spend $4,000 and go to Europe
00:41:20
for free the other thing interesting
00:41:22
cash back cards typically have lower
00:41:23
bonuses so uh you just don't get a lot
00:41:26
of
00:41:26
but look if you don't want to play the
00:41:28
game no judging right but like the sa
00:41:30
one card is 3% cash back on dining
00:41:34
entertainment grocery stores and I think
00:41:37
streaming if if you're spending all your
00:41:39
money there at least consider getting a
00:41:42
cash back card that's going to pay you
00:41:43
back for it and I think I could be wrong
00:41:45
but I think there's um there's two tiers
00:41:48
the saor one and I think one of them
00:41:49
goes up to four I think the saver not
00:41:51
the saver one the saver is 4% on dining
00:41:55
and 3% on grocery but I believe it has
00:41:57
an annual fee so you just got to ask
00:41:58
yourself do I spend enough on dining
00:42:00
that getting an extra 1% cash back is
00:42:02
worth $95 a year if it's not then
00:42:04
definitely don't do it right right a
00:42:06
little math is involved that's okay this
00:42:08
is this is personal finance we get it I
00:42:10
like it well let's change gears a little
00:42:12
bit it's it's I mean I I really enjoy
00:42:14
I've now heard you talk go deep on
00:42:16
credit card points maybe three or four
00:42:19
times on your podcast on Animal Spirits
00:42:21
now here today so I'm you're starting to
00:42:23
push me over the edge I'm going to look
00:42:24
into it myself but we can focus on some
00:42:26
other things because you've had as of
00:42:28
this recording 134 podcast episodes
00:42:31
Chris many of them involving some sort
00:42:34
of real expert guest you've had some
00:42:36
amazing guests on and I'm curious Which
00:42:39
single episode Which single guest sticks
00:42:42
out in your mind and and why was that
00:42:44
particular episode so impactful for
00:42:47
you this is an easy one like sometimes I
00:42:50
get these questions where it's like what
00:42:52
is your all-time favorite hack and I'm
00:42:54
like oh this is really hard this
00:42:56
question I mean it's not easy right I
00:42:58
have a lot of episodes that I go back
00:43:00
and I've even relistened to but there is
00:43:02
one particular episode that I think had
00:43:05
a very abrupt high impact right so if
00:43:09
you listen to an episode that talks
00:43:10
about healthy lifestyle right I've done
00:43:12
some episodes with doctors with athletes
00:43:14
and it's kind of changed okay I'm gonna
00:43:16
change this thing over time I'll see
00:43:18
this benefit I did an episode with
00:43:19
Arthur Brooks on happiness like it was
00:43:22
an incredible episode but it's not going
00:43:25
to change everything in a moment I did
00:43:27
an episode with a guy named Bill Perkins
00:43:28
it was episode 91 all the hacks.com
00:43:31
91 and he wrote a book called die with
00:43:34
zero and the case he makes is that we
00:43:38
should be focused on net fulfillment not
00:43:40
net worth I had been the exact opposite
00:43:43
I had been someone who had a spreadsheet
00:43:45
who tracked my net worth over time
00:43:47
watched exactly how much it went up was
00:43:50
every time if my wife were talking about
00:43:51
what our financial goals were it was the
00:43:53
next Milestone of our net worth and that
00:43:55
was our priority
00:43:57
and I I had this conversation and I left
00:44:00
and I was like what are we doing why
00:44:02
does that number matter why do I want it
00:44:04
to go up do I just want to have a pile
00:44:06
of money when I die like Scrooge MC duck
00:44:08
like what is going on and his message
00:44:11
isn't spend all your money it it
00:44:13
technically is actually I take it back
00:44:14
his message is die with zero and when
00:44:16
you die you should have no money it's
00:44:18
not go blow all your money in your 30s
00:44:21
he makes a couple small cases like
00:44:23
instead of leaving all of your money to
00:44:24
your kids maybe give it to your kids
00:44:26
earlier help them buy a house help them
00:44:28
start a company give them the money when
00:44:30
by the way you can watch the impact it
00:44:32
has on their lives you want to give
00:44:34
money to charity great give it to it
00:44:36
before you die you'll see the impact it
00:44:38
has on that charity that charity will
00:44:40
have that impact sooner but the big
00:44:42
thing was at each stage of life there
00:44:45
are things that can only really happen
00:44:47
at that stage and depriving yourself of
00:44:50
those things so that you can save more
00:44:53
and bolster your net worth in the long
00:44:55
run might not actually be the best
00:44:56
outcome so if you've always wanted to
00:44:59
take a backpacking trip Solo or with
00:45:01
your spouse waiting until you have kids
00:45:04
is almost a certainty that you will
00:45:07
either not take that trip or it will
00:45:09
cost you 50 times more because you're
00:45:11
going to wait till your kids have gone
00:45:12
off to college and you're going to take
00:45:14
the trip where I promise you you're not
00:45:16
going to want to stay in a $3 a night
00:45:18
hostel in India like it's just you're
00:45:20
gonna have different
00:45:22
expectations so that's something where
00:45:25
if you have
00:45:26
May and by the way travel when you're
00:45:28
willing to go slow and you're willing to
00:45:30
backpack and stay in $1 hosps is pretty
00:45:32
cheap so if you're in your 20s or early
00:45:35
30s and you don't have a family yet and
00:45:36
you can afford to take a few months off
00:45:38
and do that it will be less expensive
00:45:40
now and that experience is something you
00:45:42
won't be able to have later and so yeah
00:45:44
it's important to save but that
00:45:46
experience isn't available to you later
00:45:48
in life or or it'll be more expensive or
00:45:50
different and and similarly I think a
00:45:53
lot of people think well once I save all
00:45:54
this money I can retire and once I
00:45:55
retire I can do all this stuff and I'm
00:45:58
starting to see my parents who are still
00:46:01
you know very cognitively there but from
00:46:04
a health standpoint when you're in your
00:46:05
70s you just can't do the same things
00:46:07
you could in your 60s 50s 40s 30s I'm
00:46:10
even seen like I can't do all the same
00:46:12
things I used to do in my 20s and I'm
00:46:14
not even 40 yet and so when I think
00:46:17
about that it's like well yeah maybe you
00:46:19
want to hike Machu Picchu but you can't
00:46:21
wait too long or you literally probably
00:46:22
can't do it and so my wife and I now we
00:46:26
don't have a net worth goal we kind of
00:46:28
look at the projections of how much
00:46:30
we're spending and we have a goal that
00:46:31
we don't run out of money early like
00:46:33
that's important and so that might take
00:46:35
a certain net worth but the goal isn't
00:46:38
just arbitrarily to grow the pile of
00:46:40
money we have just seems like it no
00:46:42
longer seems like a goal and it's given
00:46:44
me so much Clarity and it's absolutely
00:46:49
incredible to look at the emails I've
00:46:52
gotten from listeners who are like I
00:46:54
listened to that episode and it it
00:46:55
literally Al changed my perspective on
00:46:57
so many things and I say almost every
00:46:59
week I get another listener that writes
00:47:02
in and says it totally changed my
00:47:04
perspective cool and it was episode 91
00:47:07
right episode 91 with Bill episode 91
00:47:09
and listeners if you want to I think
00:47:11
yeah di zero is on my recommendations
00:47:13
page bestin interest. blogrecommended
00:47:19
hear Bill Perkins on all the hacks Chris
00:47:22
and maybe I'll reach out to Bill and see
00:47:24
if he wants to come on the best interest
00:47:25
podcast yes yeah I would recommend that
00:47:28
uh I it took me a long time to get him
00:47:30
to reply so I don't have a lot of
00:47:32
tactics uh persistence persistence fade
00:47:34
off well it's funny there's this phrase
00:47:36
I've heard before time talent and
00:47:38
treasure at various points in life we
00:47:40
have varying amounts of those three
00:47:42
things and as we get older oftentimes
00:47:45
our treasure grows which is great but
00:47:48
usually our time decreases life just
00:47:50
gets so busy and our talent at least
00:47:52
when it comes to say like physical
00:47:53
talent to go do that hike that you were
00:47:55
talking about that goes out the window
00:47:57
and so it is very interesting it sounds
00:47:59
like Bill's almost adding a fourth
00:48:00
dimension into that which is or at least
00:48:02
a new way to measure treasure because to
00:48:05
his point there is no good reason to die
00:48:07
on top of a giant pile of gold as you
00:48:09
said like Scrooge McDuck like what's the
00:48:12
point what's the point you more out of
00:48:14
that treasure seeing it have an impact
00:48:16
than just knowing it will be passed on
00:48:18
exactly and even even if your plans are
00:48:20
to pass it on to your kids and to leave
00:48:21
a bunch of Charity those are great
00:48:23
things but you can start to enact at
00:48:26
least some of those great things while
00:48:28
you're still alive and and that way you
00:48:29
get to put a smile on your face too I
00:48:31
like it a lot by the way it might be and
00:48:34
this this only happens when you cross
00:48:36
the millions and millions of dollars
00:48:37
Mark but I hope that lots of people
00:48:39
listening to this show Save A Lot do
00:48:41
amazing things and have millions of
00:48:42
dollars it might actually be more tax
00:48:44
efficient to give that money to your
00:48:45
kids over time than wait and do it at
00:48:47
the end of your life so there's actually
00:48:48
a finan not just an emotional benefit
00:48:51
but there might even be a financial
00:48:52
benefit to doing it sooner totally
00:48:54
totally put together a smart gifting
00:48:56
strategy with the cfp that's a thing oh
00:48:58
you made me think of something there
00:48:59
Chris what was it oh I know what it was
00:49:02
yeah study show that listeners of the
00:49:04
best interest podcast and all the hacks
00:49:06
do have far above average net worths I
00:49:09
don't know if you knew that I did know
00:49:10
that I would love to see these studies I
00:49:12
should go I should promote them more
00:49:14
heavily here's a quick ad and then we'll
00:49:16
get back to the show one of the more
00:49:19
common questions I hear is Jesse what do
00:49:21
you like in use books blogs podcasts
00:49:24
even Banks and brokerage firms what are
00:49:26
your recommendations so to answer that
00:49:29
question I put together a web page you
00:49:31
can check it out at best interest. blog
00:49:35
reccommendations again that's bestin
00:49:37
interest. blogrecommended
00:49:41
my financial
00:49:43
life Chris many of my listeners they
00:49:46
fall into that 25 to 40 year old uh
00:49:49
range and that means that many of them
00:49:51
have young kids kind of like you so I
00:49:54
was wondering as a relatively new parent
00:49:56
are there any parent specific hacks that
00:49:59
you love they could be Financial or
00:50:00
maybe they're not wow okay so there's
00:50:04
just so much to unwrap in parenting in
00:50:07
fact my wife and I were talking about
00:50:08
this we had so much we wanted to talk
00:50:10
about parenting that we didn't want to
00:50:12
overwhelm the non-parents and so we're
00:50:15
going to do a miniseries on it next year
00:50:17
where we do like off not not the main
00:50:19
Wednesday episode but tell that's cool
00:50:21
well I'm gonna interrupt you real what
00:50:23
what is your parental situation in case
00:50:25
the listeners don't oh yeah sorry we
00:50:27
have two kids a three-year-old and a
00:50:30
15-month-old and so I would say I've got
00:50:33
all kinds of stuff and you know we we
00:50:36
were trying to figure out how do you
00:50:38
make a full-time job work when you are
00:50:41
having child and you know for people
00:50:44
that that have the luxury of spending
00:50:46
money I'll just give this as an example
00:50:48
of I guess a hack there are things
00:50:51
called night nannies and and common
00:50:53
thing for some people that are working
00:50:55
who need to be on their game maybe your
00:50:57
company doesn't give you as much prent
00:50:58
to leave some people hire night nanny
00:51:00
who will come in and help take care of
00:51:02
the baby in the middle of the night
00:51:03
that's a thing you could do and it's
00:51:05
quite expensive and when we looked at it
00:51:06
it was like Astron like it was just very
00:51:09
very expensive especially in the Bay
00:51:10
Area and then I started asking around
00:51:12
and people were like oh yeah in New York
00:51:14
everyone has a baby nurse no one has a
00:51:16
night nanny and I was like oh what's a
00:51:17
baby nurse so I was going down this
00:51:19
rabbit hole and hopefully this could
00:51:21
apply to things Way Beyond parenting but
00:51:23
I just started asking around in New York
00:51:25
everyone hires not everyone many people
00:51:28
who have enough money to hire someone
00:51:30
who comes in lives in the house with the
00:51:32
family for a few months maybe 30 day one
00:51:34
two months when the baby's young and
00:51:37
helps during the day and at nights doing
00:51:40
all these things and it ends up costing
00:51:43
about the same or less than having
00:51:45
someone come to your house for like
00:51:46
seven hours at night and they're working
00:51:48
like 16-hour days and and this is what
00:51:52
they want to do and then they take a big
00:51:53
break after so it's like an intense too
00:51:55
mon months maybe a couple weeks off and
00:51:57
I was like Wow had I not asked why are
00:52:00
all my friends in the Bay Area because
00:52:02
this isn't a common thing spending more
00:52:04
money than they need
00:52:05
to and I just kept asking this and then
00:52:08
a friend of mine who's Korean was like I
00:52:10
don't know why these people in New York
00:52:12
spend so much money on this service in
00:52:14
Korean culture we have a different thing
00:52:17
that's just like that except not only
00:52:18
does the person take care of the kids
00:52:20
but they also make really hearty meals
00:52:22
to help Mom recover and their goal is
00:52:25
really helping the mom recover during
00:52:27
this kind of confinement period Which is
00:52:29
popular in Chinese and Korean culture
00:52:31
and a few other Asian uh cultures where
00:52:34
someone's really there to take care of
00:52:35
Mom but in order to let Mom recover they
00:52:37
have to also take care of the baby and
00:52:40
so that ended up being about half the
00:52:42
cost and now downside was the person
00:52:46
that stayed with us didn't speak much
00:52:48
English but at the end of the day the
00:52:50
baby didn't speak English either and
00:52:52
true we've traveled enough you here's
00:52:54
another benefit of travel we traveled
00:52:56
enough that we were pretty good at
00:52:57
communicating without needing to speak
00:52:58
fluently and so for a few weeks after
00:53:02
both of our daughters were born we had
00:53:04
this amazing woman uh Mrs Park come stay
00:53:07
with us and help with a lot of things
00:53:11
that actually
00:53:12
allowed me to go back to work a little
00:53:16
earlier which then allowed me to take
00:53:18
parental leave later after my wife went
00:53:20
back to work so we both had a bit of
00:53:22
time over the first year to be off but
00:53:26
it wasn't all at once and she took care
00:53:29
of all the cooking it it was incredible
00:53:31
the company that provides this service
00:53:33
is called San who USA s NH ho usa.com I
00:53:37
think the website's probably all in
00:53:38
Korean but that was one hack was just
00:53:42
like night nannies was just too
00:53:44
expensive but you know we were willing
00:53:45
to spend something gosh where else do I
00:53:48
go down this path we buy almost all of
00:53:50
our kid stuff on Facebook
00:53:54
Marketplace whether it's a stroller or
00:53:57
anything it's like what I've learned now
00:53:59
as a parent three years in is like when
00:54:01
you're done with kid stuff you were just
00:54:03
like I don't I just want it gone and
00:54:06
like before having kids I'd be like oh
00:54:09
what is the most optimal way to sell
00:54:10
this thing and I remember um you know we
00:54:14
were trying to sell something and it
00:54:16
would be like well how much can I get
00:54:18
should I go to eBay should I go to
00:54:19
merari should what what price should it
00:54:20
be and then now I'm like who can pick it
00:54:23
up today like yeah
00:54:26
and I think parents you know this might
00:54:28
not be all parents but there are many
00:54:29
parents that are just like they value
00:54:31
just getting rid of stuff and simple
00:54:33
seamless quick and so we both take and
00:54:37
receive with that model so we've been
00:54:39
getting a ton of stuff secondhand and
00:54:41
we've been giving a ton of stuff either
00:54:43
away dropping off at Goodwill selling it
00:54:46
for a low enough price that it's just
00:54:48
quick to move and so I think there's
00:54:51
just so many people with kids that want
00:54:52
to get rid of stuff that I highly
00:54:53
recommend that I got one silly hack
00:54:56
that's if you're trying to get your kid
00:54:57
into preschool and and I don't mean get
00:54:59
in like special talents just preschools
00:55:01
are full and sometimes you can't get
00:55:03
your child in and we for we did not go
00:55:07
down the preschool path but the hack I
00:55:08
Learned was a lot of times preschools
00:55:11
are like well we don't have any room
00:55:13
five days a week we do have two days a
00:55:14
week and I have a couple friends that
00:55:16
have since used this they say great
00:55:18
we'll take the two days once you're in
00:55:21
two days you get the priority for the
00:55:23
other three days oh within a month they
00:55:26
got in but they took the spot that had
00:55:29
they been had someone been waiting for a
00:55:31
just hey let me know when five days are
00:55:33
available they never would have got in
00:55:34
the spot so I'd say if you need to get
00:55:36
your kid in five days at a minimum
00:55:37
enroll them in one day don't just wait
00:55:39
for five and and pretty quickly someone
00:55:42
drops out and they they pass that along
00:55:44
so I've had a couple friends use that we
00:55:46
have an opair so if you have an extra
00:55:47
room in your house and you are
00:55:49
interested in the kind of cultural
00:55:50
exchange that comes with someone from
00:55:52
another country living in your house it
00:55:54
it's it's a really interesting
00:55:56
alternative to a nanny or daycare or
00:55:58
preschool or anything like that is it is
00:56:00
the traditional arrangement of an old
00:56:01
pair Chris that they get free lodging
00:56:04
but in exchange they provide some free
00:56:06
child care it's that and a weekly stien
00:56:09
so you pay a weekly stipend she'll pay
00:56:11
them something okay okay so that they
00:56:13
have money to go out and you know we
00:56:14
provide our you know she can use our car
00:56:16
to go do things and if we go on a trip
00:56:19
she'll come with us which is a perk for
00:56:21
her but it's also a perk for us we were
00:56:23
talking about how I'm going to this
00:56:24
confence in Hawaii we've made a family
00:56:26
trip out of it we're going for a week
00:56:28
she's going to have a few days to
00:56:29
explore Hawaii and she's going to be
00:56:31
with us but also we're gonna have a few
00:56:33
days that you know if my wife and I want
00:56:35
to go out to dinner we can go do that
00:56:37
you know while our kids are there
00:56:38
without having to go find child care in
00:56:41
Hawaii which is very possible right if
00:56:43
you don't have an opare call the
00:56:45
concierge of a hotel you're staying at
00:56:46
and be like who do you recommend for
00:56:47
child care use one of the care.com Urban
00:56:50
sitter sites like there are lots of
00:56:52
options that many people I know have
00:56:54
used but this even easier because it's
00:56:55
the person our kids are familiar with
00:56:57
and and it's just so simple so it
00:57:00
doesn't work if you don't like people
00:57:01
living in your house it doesn't work if
00:57:03
you walk around your house naked all the
00:57:05
time
00:57:07
but if neither of those things are true
00:57:09
and you have an extra room it's been
00:57:11
fantastic and our daughter now speaks a
00:57:13
little bit of Spanish speaks a little
00:57:15
bit of Italian and so we we get the
00:57:18
cultural exchange of having someone from
00:57:19
another country in our house which is
00:57:21
actually really fun because we're not
00:57:23
traveling as much because travel with
00:57:24
children is a lot and so we still get a
00:57:26
little bit of the cultural exchange that
00:57:28
you would get from travel without having
00:57:29
to leave our home that's awesome what a
00:57:32
great deal what a great those are a few
00:57:34
I think I'll have some more next year if
00:57:36
there's a specific topic you want to go
00:57:37
into I'm happy to
00:57:39
but that's cool Chris and I think if and
00:57:41
when uh you and your wife sit down and
00:57:43
do this little parental miniseries let
00:57:44
me know and and I'll include it in the
00:57:46
best interest newsletter so that way
00:57:48
listeners to this episode and people who
00:57:50
subscribe to the newsletter will get
00:57:51
that update and they can tune in to all
00:57:53
the hacks and uh speaking of let's let's
00:57:55
segue let's segue to the little outro
00:57:58
here Chris I'm sure people are gonna
00:58:00
want to tune in maybe they'll tune in to
00:58:01
episode 91 we'll throw that link in the
00:58:03
show notes maybe they'll want to go
00:58:05
check out your spreadsheet that you
00:58:06
mentioned before we'll throw that in the
00:58:07
show notes but just again remind people
00:58:09
how can they find you how can people
00:58:11
connect with you and all the hacks
00:58:14
everything is is at all the hacks.com
00:58:16
you can go there if you're listening to
00:58:18
podcast you're in a podcast player you
00:58:20
can just search all the hacks if you
00:58:21
don't see the an episode that's exciting
00:58:23
this week go look at last week like we I
00:58:25
try to do a really deep dive in lots of
00:58:28
different topics from insurance to
00:58:30
health to finance and Banking and
00:58:33
investing and every everything in in
00:58:35
between so I'm sure there is something
00:58:36
there that will help you upgrade your
00:58:38
life your money your travel hopefully
00:58:40
all while spending less and saving more
00:58:43
very cool Chris Hutchins of all the
00:58:45
hacks thank you for coming on the best
00:58:47
interest podcast thank you so much for
00:58:49
having
00:58:49
[Music]
00:58:52
me thanks for tuning in to this this
00:58:54
episode of the best interest podcast if
00:58:57
you have a question for Jesse to answer
00:58:59
on a future episode send him an email at
00:59:01
Jesse bestter interest. blog again
00:59:04
that's Jesse at bestter interest. blog
00:59:08
did you enjoy the show subscribe rate
00:59:10
and review the podcast wherever you
00:59:12
listen this helps others find the show
00:59:14
and invest in knowledge themselves and
00:59:17
we really appreciate it we'll catch you
00:59:19
on the next episode of the best interest
00:59:21
[Music]
00:59:23
podcast
00:59:25
the best interest podcast is a personal
00:59:27
podcast me for education and
00:59:29
entertainment it should not be taken as
00:59:31
Financial advice and is not prescriptive
00:59:33
of your financial situation
