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Welcome to personal finance for
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long-term investors, where we believe
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Benjamin Franklin's advice that an
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investment in knowledge pays the best
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interest both in finances and in your
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life. Every episode teaches you personal
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finance and long-term investing in
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simple terms. Now, here's your host,
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Jesse Kramer. Welcome to Personal
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Finance for Long-Term Investors, episode
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117. I'm Jesse Kramer. By day, I work at
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a fiduciary wealth management firm
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helping clients nationwide. You can
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learn more at bestinterest.blog.
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blog/work. The link is in the show
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notes. And by night, I write the best
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interest blog and I host this podcast. I
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help busy professionals and retirees
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avoid mistakes and grow their wealth by
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simplifying their investing, their
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taxes, and their retirement. Later
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today, I'll be joined by Spencer Ree.
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Spencer is an Air Force veteran who
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reached financial independence and now
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shares advice mainly for other military
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vets. But it is really interesting how
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retiring from the military shares so
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much in common with a more traditional
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9-to-five retirement, especially when it
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comes to some of the non-financial
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aspects of life transitions. You know,
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life transitions like retirement can be
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so much harder than they appear on the
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outside. And we made sure, Spencer and I
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made sure that even if you're not a
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military service member or a veteran,
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you're still going to find a lot of
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value in Spencer's story and in some of
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his lessons learned. But first, we have
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a review of the week. This one is from
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uh Hemo Mojo Filter who said,
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"Meaningful content delivered concisely.
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Jesse is one of my favorite content
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creators in the personal finance space.
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His style is matterof-act and
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straightforward, and he explains complex
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financial concepts in easy to understand
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language. Jesse helps build confidence
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through improving financial literacy,
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and he focuses on data and facts, not
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personal opinions." Well, Mojo, thank
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you for the kind words, and I'll be
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happy to send you a Supersoft podcast
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t-shirt. Just drop me an email to
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And listeners, if you have a question, a
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concern, or feedback that I can answer,
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especially for a future ask me anything
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AMA episode, you can send those
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questions to my email,
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Before we get to Spencer today, I want
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to share two bigger thoughts with you.
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The first one is about the only constant
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in retirement, and the second one is
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about something that I'm calling the
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retirees financial decathlon. Your only
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retirement constant will be change. It's
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like that Pete Seager song or the bird
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song, you know, to everything there's a
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season. Turn, turn, turn. A time to
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weep, a time to laugh, a time to mourn,
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and a time to dance.
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>> Some of us retire at 70, others retire
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at 40. But no matter your retirement
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age, your retirement will change over
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time. It evolves. It's not just a point
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in time. It's not just one age. It's
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decades long and it's going to change.
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At times, it's literally seasonal. I
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think of my parents. My parents love to
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garden. So spring through late summer,
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it's their number one retirement pastime
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is out in the gardens. But their daily
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schedule undergoes a change, a big
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change in winter. You know, turn turn
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like the bird said. Now, what else
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changes? Well, you get older pretty
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obviously. I was speaking to a client
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recently about the go- go, the slowgo,
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and the no-go phases of a typical
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retirement. They took a trip to Europe
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together. And after they got back in
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Italy, I think they were on their feet
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for 5 or 6 hours a day, putting in 6, 8,
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10 miles of walking a day. And they felt
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a little less go- go and a little more
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slowgo than before. And that trip kind
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of brought it into focus. Uh, what else
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changes? Well, everyone else gets older,
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too. I think this is a really
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interesting one. You know, your
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grandkids, I I've seen this in my own
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life with my parents and their
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grandchildren. My my daughter are my
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nieces and nephews. The grandkids go
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from diapers to kindergarten and next
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thing you know, they're kind of too cool
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for you and then they're off to college
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and beyond. All in the span of your
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retirement. Your own children are
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probably going to go from young
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professionals to married with kids and
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eventually they'll become empty nesters.
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All within your retirement. So these
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people, these other people in your life,
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they are changing too. Your health
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rhythms will change. Even if you start
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retirement feeling great, your body
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changes. A bum knee will alter those
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daily walks will alter those golf
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habits. A doctor's order will shift your
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diet or exercise. For some retirees, the
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biggest health change is simply more
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doctor's appointments in the first
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place, filling your calendar.
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Friendships and social circles will
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change. Friends will move away, chasing
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their grandkids. Other friends are going
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to pass away. Other people might
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actually surprise you and get closer.
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Your people will change over time. And
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with that comes new rhythms of
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connection or loneliness, especially if
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you don't adapt. From the Stacking
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Benjamin show, Joe Saul Seigh frequently
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shares a story about his friend whose
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main goal was to retire to the
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mountains, which I think a lot of us can
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relate to. The mountains are beautiful.
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I'm going to retire to the mountains.
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So, he had decades of hard work, years
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of planning, and he made it happen. He
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retired to a beautiful home in the
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remote mountains. And then within months
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of doing so, he realized he had
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completely isolated himself, physically
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isolated himself from all his previous
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social circles. And he couldn't wait to
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undo his choice of moving to the
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mountains and move back to civilization.
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So that's a pretty interesting uh
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anecdote. Finances and markets change,
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too. You know, the 4% rule, it's only a
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guidepost. Your retirement withdrawal
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strategy will change over time. It has
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to. It has to be dynamic. Markets don't
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move in a straight line. Inflation, tax
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laws change, even just your own spending
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patterns will shift and will change how
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you approach your money. Your community
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and environment will change, too. Your
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neighborhood, your town, your city will
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change. A coffee shop closes, a new park
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opens, neighbors will come and go. Or
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maybe you move yourself, downsizing,
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moving closer to family, chasing warmer
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winters, becoming a snowbird. Our
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neighbors moved just last month. They're
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probably 70 years old and they they're
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still in our town, but they just wanted
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to downsize out of the family home where
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they raised their kids, you know, the
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2500 foot home into a smaller 1,300 ft²
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onele ranch style home. Very common. And
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then what's kind of funny, the new
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neighbors who moved in after them are
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also retirees. They're also about 70
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years old. They're moving 6 hours north
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from New Jersey. Why? well, to chase
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after three of their adult kids who
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happen to settle in greater Rochester
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and their multiple grandkids, all of
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whom are close by. So anyway, different
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reasons for moving all for retirees in
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this particular case. Uh your energy,
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your priorities will change. Your
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mileage may vary. At 60, you'll be up
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for adventure. At 70, a slower routine
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starts to feel better. And at 80, you're
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only focusing on simplicity. You know,
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again, your mileage may vary on that.
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But the point is, the things that you
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want from retirement will evolve, and
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that's not a bad thing. the the juice
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you squeeze from daily life will also eb
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and flow and it will it'll eb more than
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flow as time goes on. Technology
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certainly changes. I know it sounds like
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a small thing, but it's pretty huge and
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it's probably bigger than it's ever been
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before. I mean, just look at this
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example. How long do you want your
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retirement to be? I think would a fair
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number fall between 20 years and 40
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years. Let's use that range. The
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worldwide web is 35 years old. Wi-Fi is
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25 years old. It became commonplace, at
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least here in the USA, starting about 20
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years ago. iPhones are 18 years old.
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Simple stuff like GPS, maps, FaceTime,
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video calls, streaming TV shows, even
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text message. These weren't like
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proliferated, ubiquitous, popular
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technologies until the last 10 to 15
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years. So technology will keep changing
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by leaps and bounds all within the time
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frame of your single retirement. So
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adapting to that technology can either
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expand or limit your personal world.
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Purpose and meaning can change a lot too
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for retirees. Some retirees discover
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purpose in volunteering, in mentoring,
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in a faith community. Others lose steam
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after the honeymoon period of their
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retirement, and they need to reinvent
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some way to find fulfillment. And again,
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20 or 30 or 40 years is a really long
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time. That fulfillment cycle can turn
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and turn and turn over and again. We all
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know people who have reinvented
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themselves throughout their 20s and 30s
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and 40s. And I don't think that ceases
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just because we're in our 50s and 60s
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and beyond. It might slow down for some
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people, but it speeds up for others. It
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rarely halts altogether. So no matter
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your age, no matter your retirement
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plans, I believe the only constant in
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retirement will be change. And now for
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this other idea I alluded to before, the
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retirees financial decathlon. While that
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first little stanza, the first little
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topic focused more on the softer side of
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retirement. This is going to focus on
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some of the nuts and bolts finances of
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retirement. If you're not familiar with
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Peter Aia, that's how I'm going to start
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this little uh story. Peter Tia is a
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doctor, a scientist, an author, an
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all-around health advocate. And he came
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up with this concept that he calls the
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centinarian decathlon. And it's a
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framework that asks, "What 10 physical
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tasks do I want to be able to do at age
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100?" Centinarian 100. So very lofty.
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What 10 things do I want to be able to
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do at age 100? And from there, Peter Aia
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works backward identifying the strength
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and mobility and endurance that we need
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today at our current age in order for us
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to kind of age gracefully into those
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goals in the future at age 100. So this
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decathlon, it reframes fitness as
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preparation for longevity and for
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independence, not necessarily for pure
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performance or aesthetics. The idea is
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is kind of simple. We train today for
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the functional life that we want decades
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from now. And my thought was, well, can
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we do the same thing for retirement,
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retirement finances? What are the 10
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most important aspects of a financially
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sound retirement? And how do we start
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preparing for that future today? So, the
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10 items in my retiree decathlon. What
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matters in retirement? It's crucial to
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focus on yes, family, lifestyle,
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purpose, all those other soft aspects of
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retirement. If you haven't listened to
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episode 106 of this podcast that it's a
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really good one to listen to that
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focuses heavily on that side of
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retirement. In fact, most postretirees
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actually end up realizing that the soft
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stuff of retirement is much more
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important than the financial nuts and
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bolts. But nevertheless, I'm going to
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focus on the finances for today for this
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retirey decathlon. The 10 nuts and bolts
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tasks that we should start today and
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work on throughout retirement. The first
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one is to understand your future
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paycheck or you know in quotes paycheck.
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Your cash inflow during your career is
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really easy to understand. It's mostly
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your paycheck. It's really simple. But
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obviously there's a significant change
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in retirement. No more paycheck. All
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pre-retirees need to understand where
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their future retirement paycheck will be
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coming from. Some people assume it's
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100% from social security. Other people
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assume it'll come 100% from their 401k
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savings. The truth is usually more
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nuanced. Your retirement paycheck will
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likely have multiple sources. It will
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change over time. It'll be unique to
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you. It should be optimized for your
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lifestyle, for your long-term
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sustainability, for tax minimization,
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other things like that. And even if
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you're years away from pulling the
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retirement trigger, it's not too early
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to consider uh where your retirement
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paycheck will come from. On that note,
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if you're interested, I wrote a a free
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PDF white paper. It's called the
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step-by-step guide to building your
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retirement paycheck. And if you sign up
00:10:45
for my email list, you can get a free
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copy of that PDF sent straight to your
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inbox. You can sign up at
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bestinterest.blog at the homepage or you
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can follow the link in the show notes to
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this uh article, the retirees financial
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tool. And there are multiple places in
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the article where you can sign up. You
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can download your free copy of the
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step-by-step guide to building your
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retirement paycheck. But now on to event
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number two of our decathlon. Allocate
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and build your portfolio. It's fine
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advice to say just save more money, but
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we all need to dig a little bit deeper.
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How much should we save? How do we
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allocate those dollars into different
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asset classes, stocks, bonds, etc. And
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then why do we make those allocation
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decisions? Uh what assumptions should we
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make for future returns on investment?
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Like how will our money grow? And then
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how do those allocation and growth
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assumptions change over time? Your
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portfolio will be a significant part of
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your retirement lifestyle, your
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retirement finances. It might be the
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only part of your retirement paycheck
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for a few years if you plan on retiring
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early, right? You won't be able to turn
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on social security yet. So, your
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portfolio is going to be the only
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probably one of the only inputs into
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your retirement paycheck. So, we need to
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focus on the allocation and and the
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structure of our portfolio. Event number
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three in this decathlon is to understand
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your social security strategy. On its
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face, you have to decide when and how to
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claim social security for a maximum
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lifetime benefit. But yes, it's more
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nuanced than that. So, I suggest asking
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a lot of different questions. Uh, I
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wrote an article I'll link in the show
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notes. It's called when should I take
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social security? And I suggest asking
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questions like, uh, what's your family
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health history? Should you delay social
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security in order to make it into more
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of a longevity insurance for your plan?
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Do you plan on part-time work during
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retirement? How might spousal benefits
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and/or survivor benefits impact your
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family and your specific social security
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strategy? How how risky, how threatening
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is the sequence of returns risk for you
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and will early social security claiming
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actually alleviate that risk? Maybe just
00:12:43
one of the basic ones, one of the more
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basic ones is is social security like
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this fundamental pillar of your
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retirement or if it disappeared, do you
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have enough money saved up that you you
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don't really need social security in the
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first place? It's not that important.
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All those kind of questions can help us
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provide more color in determining when
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you should take social security and what
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your family social security strategy
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needs to be. So that's the third event
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of this decathlon. The fourth event is
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to develop a taxefficient saving and
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draw down strategy. There is a generally
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accepted retirement withdrawal order of
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operations to minimize retirement
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taxation. Uh, if you're curious what
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that generally accepted order of
00:13:21
operations is, I suggest reading the
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article that I linked in the show notes
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called your retirement withdrawal order
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of operations. But it begs the question,
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is there a taxefficient accumulation
00:13:31
strategy? Yes, but involves forecasting
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some uncertain futures, especially
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around tax rates and investment returns,
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and then acting now on that limited
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information. That's why the best
00:13:42
strategies are kind of a it's a dynamic
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year-by-year evaluation. It's a decision
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tree rooted in what we know now, but
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then branching out to evolve based on
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how today's facts might change. So, you
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should ask yourself these kind of
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questions every year. What's my income
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and what's my marginal tax rate this
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year? What tax advantage accounts are
00:14:00
available to me this year? What does my
00:14:02
current tax diversification look like?
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Meaning, do I have monies in traditional
00:14:07
pre-tax buckets, in Roth post tax
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buckets, and in in taxable buckets? So,
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that's that tax diversification. what do
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I expect future tax rates to be for me
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personally based on my income future
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income but also for the broader tax
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system and then last what non-ax
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considerations might impact these
00:14:26
decisions things like liquidity
00:14:28
simplicity employer matching getting an
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inheritance etc so all of those play
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into developing a taxefficient saving
00:14:36
and a tax efficient draw down strategy
00:14:38
the fifth event in this decathlon is to
00:14:40
plan for healthcare costs in episode 108
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of personal finance for long-term
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investors I answered a listener's AMA
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question by diving deep into health care
00:14:48
costs before, during, and then after
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retirement, I mean, you know, Medicare,
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kind of the long-term play of retirement
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healthcare, because yes, retirement
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healthcare can be a scary proposition.
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But I would urge you to consider this.
00:15:01
Millions of people have walked this
00:15:03
retirement path before you, and their
00:15:05
lessons, good, bad, or ugly lessons are
00:15:08
out there for you to learn from. More
00:15:10
specifically, we do know, you know, it's
00:15:12
been figured out how health care costs
00:15:14
fit into a broader retirement financial
00:15:16
plan. That information is readily
00:15:18
available. So, the the work that remains
00:15:20
for you is to consider how you'll tackle
00:15:22
that question in your specific life. The
00:15:25
answers are out there. We just need to
00:15:27
put in the work to consider how they
00:15:28
apply to our lives. Event number six in
00:15:31
the decathlon is to make an estate plan.
00:15:33
And I'd ask you is preparing for
00:15:35
retirement and preparing for death. Are
00:15:38
those two separate tasks? Ultimately, I
00:15:40
see them both as thinking ahead and
00:15:42
doing so quite prudently. So, as you
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age, as your family grows, as your
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balance sheet becomes more complicated,
00:15:48
it becomes increasingly essential to
00:15:50
review and revise your estate plan. Are
00:15:53
your loved ones protected from the
00:15:54
vicissitudes of fate? Who will receive
00:15:57
assets upon your death and in what
00:15:59
amounts and with what stipulations? Are
00:16:01
those gifts tax optimized? those kind of
00:16:03
questions. Do your loved ones know about
00:16:05
your plans? Have you communicated with
00:16:07
them? And if not, why not? All those
00:16:09
questions are really important and I I
00:16:11
can't uh emphasize enough the importance
00:16:13
of making and editing, reviewing, and
00:16:16
revising your estate plan. Event number
00:16:18
seven is to change or alter your
00:16:21
portfolio over time. So again, one of my
00:16:23
foundational financial planning and
00:16:25
investment management principles is to
00:16:27
think about goals first and then
00:16:29
timelines to those goals and then the
00:16:31
appropriate risk for those timelines and
00:16:33
then the appropriate assets based on
00:16:35
that risk level. So what are the goals
00:16:36
for your money? What are your preferred
00:16:38
or required timelines to reach those
00:16:40
goals? How much risk can you afford to
00:16:43
take across those timelines? And then
00:16:45
what assets can you invest in based on
00:16:47
that amount of risk? As you age, your
00:16:50
goals might change. Your timelines will
00:16:52
undoubtedly change. I mean, time is
00:16:53
going by. It's the only constant, right?
00:16:55
And your portfolio should adjust in
00:16:57
concert with those facts. Surprisingly,
00:16:59
you might even reach a point where your
00:17:01
timelines are no longer actually your
00:17:03
timelines. Instead, you'll invest based
00:17:05
on your estate plan, based on the
00:17:07
timelines of your descendants, of your
00:17:08
heirs, or of charities that you plan on
00:17:10
bequesting money to. It's not uncommon
00:17:12
to see a person's uh recommended risk
00:17:14
start high in their younger years, glide
00:17:17
lower into retirement, but then
00:17:18
eventually increase again toward the end
00:17:20
of their life. Event number eight is to
00:17:23
stress test your plan. Will your
00:17:25
financial plan survive market
00:17:27
volatility, inflation, longevity, or the
00:17:29
other curveballs that life can throw
00:17:31
your way. It's worth asking those kind
00:17:33
of whatif questions. There are various
00:17:35
software packages and various
00:17:37
professional experts who can help you
00:17:38
stress test your plan. Event number nine
00:17:41
is to consolidate and simplify. What's
00:17:43
the point of compounding wealth if it
00:17:45
also comes with compounding stress? Most
00:17:47
retirees see a big psychic benefit from
00:17:50
simplifying their financial lives. It's
00:17:51
a bit like cleaning your house. Now,
00:17:53
what's the best way to do it? Probably
00:17:55
by keeping it clean in the first place.
00:17:57
But if you've come to the point where
00:17:58
your uh financial plan, your retirement
00:18:00
plan, your financial picture is a little
00:18:02
bit out of control, there are many ways
00:18:04
to consolidate, simplify, and just end
00:18:06
up with a uh a less stressful, a more
00:18:08
simple plan going forward. And then
00:18:10
event number 10 of our decathlon, it's a
00:18:13
one-word event. I'll pause and let you
00:18:15
take a little guess at what this one
00:18:17
word is. The word is spend. The last
00:18:21
event on the retirey decathlon is to
00:18:23
spend your money. Spending and saving
00:18:25
are these two separate muscles. And too
00:18:27
often a frugal retiree will enter their
00:18:30
golden years with a a massive savings
00:18:32
muscle, but with atrophied spending
00:18:34
muscles. So an important thing to do
00:18:37
even before retirement is to start
00:18:39
flexing, start exercising your spending
00:18:41
muscle. If you feel like a habitual
00:18:43
saver, if spending money gives you
00:18:45
anxiety, if your only pair of pants is
00:18:48
17 years old and fraying at the seams,
00:18:50
spend. Start now. You don't have to go
00:18:52
crazy, but you shouldn't wait until
00:18:54
retirement. You can go out and buy a new
00:18:57
pair of pants. So, thank you for
00:18:59
listening to that retirees financial
00:19:01
decathlon. I hope it was interesting and
00:19:03
entertaining for you. Here's a quick ad
00:19:05
and then we'll get back to the show. You
00:19:07
probably know that I love listener
00:19:08
inspired content, but this is my first
00:19:10
listener inspired advertisement. Frank
00:19:12
asked me in short, Jesse, is there a
00:19:14
best time to start working with you as a
00:19:16
client? And the short answer is yes.
00:19:18
There are two ideal times. One is at the
00:19:20
beginning of a new year for probably
00:19:22
some pretty obvious reasons, but the
00:19:23
second one is right about now, September
00:19:25
and October. It's the perfect time for
00:19:27
year-end tax planning to ensure you find
00:19:29
the correct balance of Roth conversions,
00:19:31
tax gain or tax loss harvesting, making
00:19:33
charitable gifts, spreading out any
00:19:35
portfolio changes over multiple tax
00:19:37
years, or whatever other tax dials we
00:19:39
can turn for you. Working backward from
00:19:41
the December 31st tax deadline, the time
00:19:44
to start those initial conversations is
00:19:46
right now, August, September, maybe into
00:19:48
early October. You want to give yourself
00:19:50
and us enough runway to make sure we get
00:19:52
this right for you. So, if you're
00:19:54
interested in starting a conversation
00:19:56
with me and my colleagues, you can go to
00:19:58
bestinterest.blog/work
00:20:00
and fill out the form there. Again,
00:20:02
that's on my blog on the work with Jesse
00:20:04
page. The address is
00:20:05
bestinterest.blog/work
00:20:08
and fill out the form. And with that,
00:20:10
we're now going to introduce Spencer
00:20:11
Reese onto the podcast. Spencer
00:20:14
separated from the US Air Force in 2022
00:20:16
after 12 years of active duty. And he
00:20:19
helps military service members mainly
00:20:21
and their families through his book, his
00:20:23
podcast, his course and website, which
00:20:25
all fall under the the branding umbrella
00:20:27
of the military money manual. So if you
00:20:30
hear us stay military money manual, that
00:20:32
is really Spencer's brand. His book, his
00:20:34
podcast, his course, and his website all
00:20:36
fall under that brand. And again, all
00:20:38
those media channels are dedicated to
00:20:39
enriching military families, helping
00:20:41
them reach financial independence as
00:20:43
quickly as possible. I know most my
00:20:45
audience, you're probably not in the
00:20:47
military. You're not a military veteran.
00:20:48
There are so many parallels, especially
00:20:51
when it comes to the life transitions,
00:20:52
and you'll hear Spencer and I dig into
00:20:54
that today. So, without further ado,
00:20:55
here is Spencer Ree from the Military
00:20:57
Money Manual.
00:21:00
[Music]
00:21:04
>> Spencer, I'm glad we're able to do this,
00:21:05
man. and and something that I was
00:21:07
thinking about one one potential place
00:21:08
to start this conversation is that you
00:21:10
know my listeners are used to me hearing
00:21:12
hearing me say that financial planning
00:21:14
is a function of specifics right it's
00:21:16
your life your family your income
00:21:18
whatever is unique and specific to you
00:21:20
but to that end I'm thinking about your
00:21:23
expertise and the world that you're
00:21:24
coming from some of the military world
00:21:26
where there are some like it's kind of
00:21:29
funny to think about as like unique
00:21:30
generalities so it's like a generality
00:21:33
to military service members but it's
00:21:35
this very unique thing that separates
00:21:37
military service members and their
00:21:39
finances from say the civilians, the
00:21:41
general populace. So, at some point, and
00:21:43
maybe we can do it right off the start,
00:21:44
I mean, what are some stories that you
00:21:46
have when it just comes to some of those
00:21:48
unique financial aspects of military
00:21:51
service? Is that is that too broad a
00:21:52
place to start?
00:21:53
>> No, that's a great place to start, I
00:21:54
think. Jesse, thanks for the softball uh
00:21:57
softball start there. We were talking
00:21:58
about this just before we hit record,
00:22:00
but there is a universality between
00:22:03
civilian money and military money. The
00:22:05
name of your podcast, you know,
00:22:06
long-term investing, and that's that's
00:22:08
what I've been talking about over at my
00:22:11
website and my podcast for years now,
00:22:13
but the vehicles that we use to do that
00:22:16
might be a little bit different. You
00:22:17
know, we might say TSP, thrift savings
00:22:19
plan, instead of 401k, but the basics of
00:22:22
it, the fundamentals of it are exactly
00:22:23
the same as a civilian 401k. But so what
00:22:26
are the big fundamental differences that
00:22:28
you'll see on the military side? Well,
00:22:29
one thing is that you might have on the
00:22:33
enlisted side, you might have lower
00:22:34
income for a longer period of time. So
00:22:37
that so you might have to adjust
00:22:40
basically your expectations if you're
00:22:42
going to stay enlisted for a full
00:22:44
20-year career, especially compared to
00:22:47
an officer in the same branch. You're
00:22:49
just going to be making a lot less
00:22:50
money. And probably towards the end of
00:22:52
your career, it might the difference
00:22:53
might be as much as half. you might be
00:22:55
only making 50% as an officer. So,
00:22:57
that's one thing there is just you have
00:22:59
to kind of cage your expectations of of
00:23:01
your income potential while you're on
00:23:02
the enlisted side. But that being said,
00:23:04
there's still tremendous opportunity to
00:23:07
live below your means and save and
00:23:09
invest and build wealth while you're on
00:23:13
active duty to set yourself up for a
00:23:17
very nice transition to the civilian
00:23:19
sector. I think the one of the other
00:23:20
things that that really comes up with
00:23:22
military service members is a lot of
00:23:24
times it's all they know, right? They
00:23:26
they join right out of high school,
00:23:27
right out of college. It's their first
00:23:29
and their only real adult job for maybe
00:23:32
just one enlistment, right? Two to four
00:23:34
years or maybe even longer. Like pilots
00:23:37
have a 10-year commitment and that
00:23:39
starts after the training's done. So now
00:23:41
you're at looking at 12 years and that's
00:23:43
after you graduate university. So,
00:23:45
you're in your mid30s before you ever
00:23:47
have an opportunity to really think
00:23:48
about what you're doing and what you
00:23:50
want to do next.
00:23:51
>> What kind of day-to-day stuff is covered
00:23:53
in the military, Spencer? I mean,
00:23:55
shelter, right? I mean, am I living in
00:23:56
the barracks and is that covered? Food.
00:23:58
Like, so for the enlisted, for the
00:24:00
officers, they might be getting maybe
00:24:03
lower pay than maybe some of their
00:24:04
corporate civilian counterparts. I don't
00:24:06
know. But then what parts of the
00:24:08
lifestyle are actually covered by the
00:24:10
government, by the military?
00:24:11
>> Yeah. So you're always going to have
00:24:12
your housing covered in some way. So if
00:24:15
you're provided government housing,
00:24:16
whether that's the barracks or housing
00:24:19
on base, you're going to have your
00:24:21
housing covered by the government. And
00:24:23
if there isn't housing available on base
00:24:25
or if you're high enough rank or you
00:24:28
have or you're married, this is that's
00:24:31
another interesting factor of military
00:24:33
service is especially on the younger
00:24:34
enlisted side, there's a big push to get
00:24:37
married because as soon as you get
00:24:38
married, you get to move out of the
00:24:39
barracks and you get to go live in your
00:24:42
own house and and live your own life. So
00:24:44
that creates this financial incentive
00:24:46
and your pay goes up too because you'll
00:24:49
start collecting BAH basic allowance for
00:24:52
housing with a dependent which is higher
00:24:54
than the basic allowance for housing
00:24:56
without a dependent. There's this
00:24:57
financial incentive to get married which
00:25:00
is probably much more intense than the
00:25:03
pressure a civilian might feel where you
00:25:06
might get a there's a tax advantage,
00:25:08
right? married filing jointly versus uh
00:25:10
single, but most people aren't really
00:25:12
thinking about the income tax
00:25:14
implications of of getting married.
00:25:16
Although listeners of our show, our two
00:25:19
shows might might be thinking about
00:25:20
that. So your your housing is always
00:25:22
covered. On the enlisted side, a lot of
00:25:24
times you have access to a chow hall or,
00:25:27
you know, some kind of food usually
00:25:28
discounted and you either get you know a
00:25:31
card, a meal card. Everybody receives a
00:25:34
basic allowance for sustenance, a BAS,
00:25:37
and that's only like a couple hundred
00:25:38
dollars a month though. But for, you
00:25:40
know, for most, this is another
00:25:42
interesting thing is even though
00:25:43
unlisted pay might be quite low compared
00:25:46
to their civilian counterparts, it can
00:25:49
be quite good to someone who comes in
00:25:52
with only a high school education.
00:25:55
And you get to learn a skill, you get to
00:25:58
learn a trade, and all that's paid for.
00:26:00
And then, oh, by the way, you're going
00:26:02
to get a GI bill as well. So now, if you
00:26:04
want to go to college, you can do that.
00:26:05
But you can also just go to college
00:26:06
while you're on active duty. There's a
00:26:08
thing called tuition assistance, and
00:26:10
that will pay for, the numbers change,
00:26:11
but let's say up to like $4,000 a year
00:26:13
of college tuition. So, so there's an
00:26:15
opportunity, there's a tremendous
00:26:16
opportunity to
00:26:19
essentially upskill yourself and make
00:26:21
yourself more valuable. And you can use
00:26:23
those skills while you're on active duty
00:26:26
or you can transition to the civilian
00:26:27
world eventually. you know, apply those
00:26:29
skills, especially, you know, if you're
00:26:31
in IT or any kind of computer connected
00:26:34
cyber field that you can get all your
00:26:37
certificates and then you can come out
00:26:38
and you can go, you know, walk straight
00:26:39
into Microsoft or Apple or any, you
00:26:42
know, any of Google, any of the big IT
00:26:44
companies in the world. They'll be glad
00:26:46
to have you because you're qualified and
00:26:48
you you've been doing it for real while
00:26:50
you've been on active duty. So, yeah.
00:26:52
Yeah. So, there's a lot of things that
00:26:53
the government covers and then there's a
00:26:54
lot of things that because like on the
00:26:57
enlisted side, what the classic mistake
00:27:00
that a lot of people make is they buy
00:27:01
too much car because they say, "Well,
00:27:03
I've got my I've got my housing covered.
00:27:06
I've got a I got a steady paycheck and I
00:27:08
want to go get the 2026 Camaro that's,
00:27:11
you know, $80,000 and it's right out the
00:27:13
lot and oh, the guy gave me a great
00:27:15
deal. 96-month loan only at, you know,
00:27:18
19% interest." And you're like, "Oh,
00:27:20
boy. You just paid $200,000 for an
00:27:23
$80,000 car.
00:27:25
>> No.
00:27:25
>> Uh yeah, you're in trouble. So that's
00:27:28
the interesting thing is but it happens
00:27:29
on the officer side too. You know, we
00:27:31
call it the lieutenant mobile where as
00:27:33
soon as people graduate the Air Force
00:27:35
Academy or any of the militarymies or or
00:27:37
RTC, they think, "Oh, I got to, you
00:27:39
know, an officer drives a nice car. I
00:27:41
got to go buy the BMW or I think right
00:27:44
now it's the um Toyota Tacoma. they're
00:27:46
just snapping them up and they there's
00:27:47
there goes another $80,000 on a vehicle
00:27:50
and it's like okay I mean if that's what
00:27:53
you want to do but can I interest you in
00:27:55
something that's a little bit cheaper
00:27:56
and you know explain to you the value of
00:27:58
compounding interest and all of a sudden
00:27:59
it's like as an officer like you could
00:28:01
easily be a millionaire in 10 years but
00:28:04
a lot of people don't they don't think
00:28:05
about that.
00:28:06
>> I mean it sounds like you're you're kind
00:28:07
of pointing it out but I I never really
00:28:08
thought about it before. There is such a
00:28:10
natural hierarchy of rank in the
00:28:12
military. I mean, is there some sort of
00:28:14
like keeping up with the lieutenants,
00:28:16
keeping up with the colonels? Like,
00:28:17
especially as you move up in the ranks,
00:28:19
you kind of start to look around. Do you
00:28:20
feel like you need to spend more money
00:28:22
to keep up with the equally ranked uh uh
00:28:24
officers?
00:28:25
>> It goes both ways. I think some people
00:28:29
see that as the game to play and they
00:28:32
keep, you know, up upskilling or or
00:28:34
upranking the the vehicle or, you know,
00:28:36
the kids go to the Monasuri school
00:28:38
instead of the the school on base. And,
00:28:40
you know, the lifestyle creep is real.
00:28:42
Whether it's because they're comparing
00:28:43
themselves to their peers. I mean, the
00:28:45
crazy thing is is it's the most
00:28:47
transparent organization in the world.
00:28:49
Everybody knows how much everybody is
00:28:51
paid. Now, if there's a civilian spouse,
00:28:54
right, you don't know how much they're
00:28:55
getting paid. But the the pay scale is
00:28:57
set by Congress and is publicly
00:28:59
available. So, you know how much you as
00:29:02
a captain is making, you know how much
00:29:03
your colonel boss is making. You know
00:29:05
how much the airman that's working for
00:29:06
you is making. And what I find is that
00:29:09
it usually splits around on the officer
00:29:12
side around the captain rank where you
00:29:14
have some people realize like this is a
00:29:17
stupid status game that I don't need to
00:29:19
play and I can play a different game.
00:29:21
And those are the people who become who
00:29:23
rank up and eventually they're colonels
00:29:25
who are driving the 20-year-old Honda
00:29:26
Civic and they're like, I I got nothing
00:29:29
to prove. like I get all my status and
00:29:31
recognition from from my job, right, and
00:29:33
from my rank or from what I do for the
00:29:35
organization and I don't need a Porsche
00:29:38
or a BMW 7 series to to show off. Like a
00:29:42
lot of times the cheapest, rattiest
00:29:44
looking car in the parking lot is the
00:29:45
Commander car.
00:29:47
>> Yeah.
00:29:47
>> They're just like, "This isn't a game I
00:29:48
want to play." But like I said, it does
00:29:50
split. And so you have some people who
00:29:52
say, "Okay, now I'm starting to make
00:29:53
it's about captain where you're starting
00:29:55
to make six figures as an officer over
00:29:57
$100,000 a year." And there are some
00:30:00
people who are like, "Okay, now I'm
00:30:01
making the real money and I can really
00:30:02
start upgrading my lifestyle."
00:30:05
And you know, it's crazy, but we've had
00:30:08
people, we've talked to people who have
00:30:09
listened to the podcast and they're
00:30:12
they've been in as officers for 10 years
00:30:15
or 15 years or almost even 20 years and
00:30:17
they're still living paycheck to
00:30:19
paycheck and you just want to like grab
00:30:20
them and be like, "What what are you
00:30:22
doing?" Like if they're not stressed
00:30:23
about it, okay, fine, whatever. But
00:30:25
they're always stressed about it, right?
00:30:26
Like there's there's never someone who's
00:30:28
living paycheck to paycheck that is
00:30:30
enjoying that situation when the car
00:30:32
repair bill comes in and you're like, I
00:30:34
have negative $10 in my checking
00:30:35
account. How am I supposed to pay for
00:30:37
this?
00:30:37
>> Where do you find in those cases? Where
00:30:38
is the money going? Cuz I mean, we
00:30:40
talked about the cars, but from the the
00:30:43
lay person right here, I am the the
00:30:45
ignorant lay person looking in. I think
00:30:47
to myself, well, most of the, you know,
00:30:49
if we think of the big three is
00:30:50
transportation, food, and housing. Well,
00:30:53
two of those three are covered or at
00:30:54
least covered in large part. So then I
00:30:57
mean is there just a lot of like
00:30:58
spending on toys for lack of a better
00:31:00
term or or where do you see that money
00:31:01
is usually going?
00:31:02
>> Yeah, toys, lifestyle, alcohol maybe.
00:31:06
Yeah,
00:31:06
>> vacations possibly um you know spending
00:31:09
on the kids or the family. But like you
00:31:11
said earlier, you know, with financial
00:31:13
planning it being a very individualized
00:31:14
sport, the reasons people get into
00:31:16
trouble is always individualized, right?
00:31:18
And most of the time it's just because
00:31:21
there's a lack of communication with the
00:31:23
spouse and or there's there's a lack of
00:31:25
vision for what I say spouse but it
00:31:28
could be a single person as well where
00:31:30
they just don't have a vision for their
00:31:31
life or they never had a role model.
00:31:33
Usually that's what it is. You know,
00:31:35
it's usually money was not a topic that
00:31:37
you talked about at home and then you
00:31:40
just you don't know any different and so
00:31:42
you just keep doing it. And people tend
00:31:44
to treat money as something that comes
00:31:47
and then something that goes and they
00:31:48
don't realize that all you need to do is
00:31:50
carve off 5 10 15% of that stream and
00:31:55
invest it in the long term and let
00:31:58
compounding interest go to work. And
00:32:00
nobody's ever sat down and and taught
00:32:02
them that. if you could. That's why I
00:32:04
started the podcast and started the
00:32:06
website and wrote the book was because I
00:32:08
wanted to be that resource of look like
00:32:12
here's what to do and also here's why
00:32:14
you do it
00:32:15
>> because I think a lot of times people
00:32:17
are like why, you know, why would I save
00:32:19
more than 5% on my TSP? It's only
00:32:20
matched up to 5%. you just want to like
00:32:23
you just want to show them and be like
00:32:25
look like living paycheck to paycheck is
00:32:27
painful and like not having money in the
00:32:30
bank means that you don't have options
00:32:32
and so when you have more options you
00:32:34
have more freedom in general you're
00:32:36
you're happier and if that's not the
00:32:39
game we're playing then that's fine we
00:32:40
can play a different game but for most
00:32:41
people I mean that's that's really what
00:32:43
they want right they want freedom they
00:32:44
want choices they want happiness
00:32:45
>> and so do their spouses and thinking
00:32:47
back you you mentioned something in that
00:32:48
answer Spencer about about communication
00:32:50
with spouses and and And again, forgive
00:32:52
my lack of nomenclature, but whether
00:32:54
it's a deployment or active duty, I if
00:32:56
those are not synonyms, you you can
00:32:58
probably inform me and my audience on
00:33:00
exactly what those mean. But I think to
00:33:02
myself, well, boy, if someone is
00:33:03
spending, it's one thing if they're
00:33:04
living on base with their spouse, but
00:33:06
what if two spouses are a world apart
00:33:09
because one of them is deployed. And now
00:33:12
all of a sudden you you still have I
00:33:14
mean obviously they they have bigger
00:33:15
fish to fry at the moment than thinking
00:33:16
probably about their household fi
00:33:18
finances if they're deployed but someone
00:33:20
has to be thinking about it and now you
00:33:22
have this challenge in communication. I
00:33:24
mean did you live through that yourself
00:33:25
or or you have stories to share from
00:33:27
that angle? The story I would share is
00:33:32
from my personal experience, it became
00:33:34
positive, but initially when my wife and
00:33:36
I got married, I'd only been in on
00:33:38
active duty for a year and I was still
00:33:41
in pilot training. So, I was still going
00:33:44
through my initial training course. So,
00:33:46
I wasn't even a real I didn't have my
00:33:47
wings. I wasn't a real pilot yet. And I
00:33:50
I kind of showed her like how I was
00:33:51
budgeting and like how much money we had
00:33:53
coming in and how much money we had
00:33:54
going out. I I was living paycheck to
00:33:57
paycheck because she would be like,
00:33:58
"Okay, well, we just got paid $1,000."
00:34:01
And I'm like, "Right, but I have to pay
00:34:03
off the credit card bill from last
00:34:04
month, which was $1,000." And she's
00:34:05
like, "So, we have no money." I was
00:34:07
like, "No, no, like we're going to get
00:34:08
another $1,000 in two weeks." My phrase
00:34:10
was always, "Just wait till next
00:34:11
paycheck." And she was like, "I can't I
00:34:15
can't live that like that. That is not
00:34:17
going to that is not going to work for
00:34:18
us."
00:34:18
>> Good for her.
00:34:19
>> Well, and it's funny because, you know,
00:34:21
I became the face and the voice behind
00:34:23
the military money manual. If if I'm
00:34:25
being honest, a lot of the ideas and the
00:34:29
motivation came from her. And really,
00:34:31
I'm I'll give her a lot of credit for
00:34:35
fixing my personal financial situation
00:34:37
because I was living paycheck to
00:34:39
paycheck. And it was it was painful. It
00:34:41
sucked. And initially, we had I mean,
00:34:44
every dollar was allocated to a job,
00:34:46
which is good, but we each got $20 every
00:34:51
two weeks and that was our spending
00:34:53
money. like that was our the money that
00:34:56
you could decide whatever you wanted to
00:34:57
do with it. $20 and this was like this
00:34:59
was not 100 years ago, right? This was
00:35:01
this was 15 years ago. So, it didn't go
00:35:04
very far and it and it sucked and it was
00:35:05
painful. And a lot of that was because I
00:35:09
was obsessed with paying off my student
00:35:11
loans. We were putting a lot of like a
00:35:14
third of my income essentially towards
00:35:15
paying off my student loans. And we did.
00:35:18
We paid them off very early. It caused a
00:35:20
lot of friction, but it also forced us
00:35:22
to learn to communicate really
00:35:23
efficiently. And so when I was on
00:35:25
deployment, so I I deployed three times
00:35:28
supporting operations in Iraq and
00:35:29
Afghanistan. We were always checking in
00:35:32
with each other. You know, we knew how
00:35:33
much money, you know, we both had access
00:35:35
to our checking account. You know, she
00:35:37
was home, so she was in charge of the
00:35:39
bills, but like almost all of our bills
00:35:41
were on autopay and all of our
00:35:43
investments were on automatic transfer.
00:35:46
And so there was really other than her
00:35:49
just making sure that she didn't spend
00:35:51
too much on groceries or going out to
00:35:53
eat. You know, her hobbies are are are
00:35:56
relatively cheap. There really wasn't
00:35:58
anything for us to talk about. We had
00:35:59
set up a system. And I think that's the
00:36:01
critical thing that I would I would want
00:36:03
someone who's listening to this podcast,
00:36:05
whether they're civilian or military, is
00:36:07
create systems. And yes, you do need to
00:36:09
check in with your partner. And you do
00:36:10
need to communicate. And you especially
00:36:12
when you're setting up the system, you
00:36:14
need to have that communication and
00:36:16
decide like what are your values? What
00:36:18
is important to you? What do you want to
00:36:19
spend your money on together? And how
00:36:22
much money do you want to for yourself
00:36:24
so that you can spend on whatever you
00:36:26
want. But when you're setting up those
00:36:28
systems, it's it's extremely important
00:36:30
to communicate with each other. And when
00:36:33
you go, we used to say going out the
00:36:35
door, right? That's the phrase that we
00:36:36
would use when we were going on
00:36:37
deployment. You want to have it set up
00:36:40
such that if you don't have
00:36:42
communication, right, you don't have
00:36:44
internet for a couple days or or a
00:36:47
couple weeks. You know, during the Iraq
00:36:50
war, there was guys and gals out, you
00:36:52
know, in Iraq and Afghanistan who didn't
00:36:54
have contact, didn't have internet for
00:36:55
months, like literally just
00:36:57
communicating by by letters. That can be
00:36:59
pretty tough. And you know, today we've
00:37:00
got Starlink and all these other
00:37:03
services where you'd have to be pretty
00:37:05
remote to not have internet contact for
00:37:08
like a month, let's say. Even a month,
00:37:10
like could your plan survive for a
00:37:11
month, right? Like if you went off the
00:37:14
grid for 30 days, would your bills be
00:37:16
paid? Would your investments happen
00:37:18
automatically? Would the rent be paid?
00:37:21
And if the answer to that is no, then
00:37:23
it's like, all right, let's talk. Let's
00:37:25
make a plan. Let's figure this out.
00:37:26
That's I mean it's a great test that
00:37:28
that month away that weeks away that
00:37:30
quarter away test like I I can think
00:37:32
about myself or I can think about people
00:37:34
I work with and depending on that length
00:37:36
of time I think it's understandable that
00:37:38
maybe a few things start to fall through
00:37:40
the cracks but at the very least it's
00:37:41
you know can you go for the civilians
00:37:43
like can you go take that two week
00:37:45
vacation with nothing falling through
00:37:46
the cracks exactly right could you go
00:37:48
away for a month could you take a summer
00:37:50
off without anything falling through the
00:37:52
cracks those are questions worth
00:37:53
considering and I think the closer you
00:37:55
get to perfection
00:37:57
on that axis. I think more people would
00:37:59
be better served if if they moved in
00:38:01
that direction for sure. But you kind of
00:38:03
struck at something there, whether it
00:38:04
was early in your relationship your
00:38:06
behavioral differences with your wife or
00:38:09
whether it was later on where you said
00:38:10
like, okay, we need to systematize this
00:38:12
and try to take some of our behavioral
00:38:14
shortcomings just out of the equation
00:38:16
altogether. I I'd love to dive down that
00:38:18
that rabbit hole a little bit more,
00:38:20
Spencer, with are there any kind of
00:38:22
repeated behavioral traps that you just
00:38:26
found like yes, they're general behavior
00:38:28
traps that affect all of us in personal
00:38:29
finance and we can all learn a lessons
00:38:31
from it, but you see them as just being
00:38:33
especially common for military families.
00:38:36
>> I think for military families, the most
00:38:39
common traits I see are those of
00:38:44
avoiders. So by that I mean it's usually
00:38:47
not a will problem, right? They usually
00:38:49
want to be better with money, but it's a
00:38:52
skills problem. They never they they
00:38:54
never got the training. They never saw
00:38:57
it modeled by their family or their
00:38:58
parents. And then they they marry
00:39:01
someone who also doesn't have those
00:39:04
skills and probably also has the will,
00:39:08
but they just can't bridge the gap
00:39:10
because they don't know who to turn to.
00:39:11
And I mean the great thing is is the
00:39:13
military does offer a lot of free
00:39:17
resources to service members. So I'll
00:39:20
just throw out a couple. Military one
00:39:21
source. So that's sponsored by the
00:39:23
Department of Defense. You can go to
00:39:25
military1source.com
00:39:26
I think it is. But just Google it.
00:39:28
Military one source. Free financial
00:39:30
counseling there specific to your
00:39:32
situation. So you'll tell them, you
00:39:33
know, hey, this is what we're struggling
00:39:35
with or this is what we want to know
00:39:36
about. like they're not going to give
00:39:38
you great investment advice other than
00:39:41
you should contribute to your TSP and
00:39:42
they're not going to tell you like which
00:39:43
funds to select inside your TSP. If you
00:39:46
want to see stuff about that, you know,
00:39:47
check out my website. But they will be
00:39:50
able to just like have that budget,
00:39:52
paycheck, that communication and that,
00:39:55
you know, just kind of that initial like
00:39:57
rip the band-aid off moment where you go
00:40:00
to your spouse and you say, "Look, like
00:40:01
I I don't know about this money stuff. I
00:40:03
don't think you know about this money
00:40:04
stuff either." Maybe maybe skip that
00:40:06
part, but you can just talk about
00:40:07
yourself and be like, I want to be more
00:40:08
confident with money. In the Air Force,
00:40:11
we call it the family service member and
00:40:12
family readiness center. And you can go
00:40:15
there and you can sit down with a with a
00:40:16
real person face to face and they'll
00:40:18
have you build a budget. They'll have
00:40:20
you, you know, talk about, okay, like
00:40:21
what are the three big expenses of most
00:40:23
American households? Housing,
00:40:25
transportation, and food. And like you
00:40:28
said, for the military, well, food's
00:40:30
mostly covered. Housing's mostly covered
00:40:33
unless you're renting something that's
00:40:35
way above your housing allowance. And so
00:40:37
then your only factor that you really
00:40:39
should worry about there is
00:40:40
transportation. And so many times
00:40:42
military service members make the
00:40:43
mistake of buying too much
00:40:45
transportation for their rank, for their
00:40:47
paycheck. And if they could just not
00:40:50
make that one single error, they'd be so
00:40:53
much better off. They'd just have so
00:40:54
much more room to maneuver with their
00:40:57
money, with their paycheck. That's the
00:40:59
kind of the overarching theme I see for
00:41:02
military families is it's usually two
00:41:04
avoiders who just don't have the skills.
00:41:08
And because they're avoiding addressing
00:41:11
the money issues, they don't ever get
00:41:14
the will really either. So, I think the
00:41:16
best thing to do would be to go to your
00:41:19
partner and say, "Look, I want to I want
00:41:20
to get a handle on this money thing and
00:41:22
I want to I want us to stop living
00:41:24
paycheck to paycheck or I want us to get
00:41:25
out of debt." Right? There's probably
00:41:26
some part of your money story that
00:41:29
you're like, man, like that. Why do I
00:41:32
have to send a,000 bucks a month to my
00:41:34
student loans? Like, can there's got to
00:41:36
be a way to fix this? And just go to
00:41:38
your spouse and be like, imagine if we
00:41:39
had $1,000 more a month. I mean, for
00:41:40
some couples, it might be a matter if we
00:41:42
had $100 more a month. Wouldn't it be
00:41:44
nice if we could like go out to Olive
00:41:46
Garden and and not worry about it? or,
00:41:48
you know, go like have buy some beers
00:41:50
and and drinks and and invite people
00:41:52
over on the weekends and just kind of
00:41:54
like starting the conversation with a
00:41:56
positive and then them being like,
00:41:58
"Yeah, that sounds great. How are we
00:42:00
going to do that?" And like I said,
00:42:02
Military One Source, Airmen and Family
00:42:04
Readiness Center, the Navy, the Army,
00:42:06
they all have their own places on post
00:42:09
or on base. And if you don't know who to
00:42:12
start with, just go to Military One
00:42:14
Source and they'll find like the
00:42:15
resources and they'll point you exactly
00:42:16
where to go. But you can even chat with
00:42:18
them. I mean, you don't have to you
00:42:19
don't have to sit on the phone and talk
00:42:20
to them. I know everybody these days
00:42:22
just likes to go through the chat
00:42:24
window. And you can do that. Like they
00:42:26
they even have they have email, so you
00:42:28
can exchange emails if you want to. But
00:42:30
there's so many free resources out
00:42:31
there. And it's such a shame to to watch
00:42:35
military families continue to avoid the
00:42:37
problem when they're given so many
00:42:38
opportunities and so many resources. I
00:42:41
have, you know, success stories of
00:42:43
enlisted millionaires, you know, who are
00:42:45
becoming millionaires like well before
00:42:47
they reach military retirement of 20
00:42:49
years of service. Airmen who have saved
00:42:51
over $100,000 after just a 4-year
00:42:54
enlistment term. And I mean, are these
00:42:56
extreme examples? Are these outliers?
00:42:58
Yeah, they are. But they're also proving
00:43:01
the point that, okay, maybe you can't
00:43:02
have $100,000 in four years, but I bet
00:43:05
you could have $40,000.
00:43:07
And if that sounds crazy to you, like
00:43:10
the the data is out there and you are
00:43:12
getting paid enough to make that happen.
00:43:14
It's just a lot of it is look at your
00:43:16
lifestyle, cut out the fat, and you
00:43:20
know, focus on your opportunities to
00:43:21
make additional income, which like you
00:43:23
were saying, deployments. Not only is it
00:43:26
an opportune time to have those
00:43:28
communication questions and discussions
00:43:29
with your partner, but you have the
00:43:32
opportunity where now when you're
00:43:34
deployed, all your food is free, all
00:43:36
your housing is free. You're going to
00:43:38
continue to collect housing allowance
00:43:41
for the station. If you have a dependent
00:43:44
back at your duty station, you're going
00:43:45
to continue to get housing allowance for
00:43:46
them, but there's nothing to say that
00:43:48
they can't downsize, right? like they
00:43:49
can move all their stuff into storage
00:43:50
and move back home with their family,
00:43:52
which depending on your family might not
00:43:53
situation might not be ideal. So, don't
00:43:56
do that. But they're still going to have
00:43:57
expenses, but when you're deployed, you
00:43:58
know, you don't have any expenses. Your
00:44:01
income goes up and you're making
00:44:02
tax-free pay. Usually, if you're
00:44:04
deployed to a combat zone, there's
00:44:07
tremendous opportunity there to get way
00:44:09
ahead. And I just saw a post on Reddit
00:44:11
the other day. I think a guy's on a
00:44:13
ninemonth or 12-month deployment. And
00:44:15
the first three months, he paid off all
00:44:16
his auto loans. you paid off. Oh,
00:44:18
student loans. And he's like, "Okay,
00:44:19
what do I do next?" And it's like, "All
00:44:20
right, man. Let's like back out your
00:44:22
TSP, Roth TSP, Roth IRA. Okay, what
00:44:24
about what's next? Tackable taxable
00:44:26
brokerage, you know, let's go like in
00:44:28
the like you can literally change your
00:44:29
life around in a single deployment." And
00:44:32
I think so many service members just let
00:44:34
that just they just let it go to waste
00:44:36
and they don't stay and it doesn't like
00:44:38
you don't have to stay focused on the
00:44:40
goal. You just have to set up a system
00:44:42
when you first get out there and then
00:44:44
you can worry about, you know, what
00:44:45
you're actually doing on that
00:44:46
deployment. but and let your money take
00:44:47
care of itself.
00:44:49
>> Yeah, it's interesting that you point
00:44:50
out that because especially maybe the
00:44:52
earlier career service members like you
00:44:55
alluded to, I think you said Spencer,
00:44:56
that like once you reach captain, that's
00:44:58
when you first hit maybe six figures
00:44:59
worth of income. So before that, you're
00:45:01
on five figures of income. And if you do
00:45:04
make that really common mistake that you
00:45:06
pointed out, which is just like buying
00:45:07
too much car, you've got the money, so
00:45:08
you decide to spend it on a car. Like we
00:45:10
all know that Camaro example that you
00:45:12
pointed out that buying too much car and
00:45:15
getting too bad of a loan on that car is
00:45:17
easily a five figure mistake. It might
00:45:19
even sneak into a six figure mistake
00:45:21
over many years. And when you're quote
00:45:24
unquote only making five figures,
00:45:26
>> you can't afford five and six figure
00:45:28
mistakes like that. And if instead you
00:45:30
could if people could make the better
00:45:32
choice up front,
00:45:34
>> prevent that mistake, save that money,
00:45:36
put it in their TSP. It really is the
00:45:38
difference between kind of like
00:45:40
floundering throughout your military
00:45:41
career and maybe pivoting postc career
00:45:44
and being like, "Yeah, I don't have too
00:45:45
much to show for my military career. I
00:45:47
didn't save that much." Versus pivoting
00:45:50
postmilitary career and being that
00:45:52
millionaire or having that flexibility
00:45:54
to do whatever you want after the
00:45:56
military. Here's a quick ad and then
00:45:58
we'll get back to the show. I still
00:46:00
remember it was 2019 and a guy from
00:46:02
Fidelity came in to speak to my then
00:46:04
employer about personal finance in
00:46:06
general and about our 401k plan in
00:46:08
particular. There were 60 or so of us
00:46:10
who attended, mostly 50 plus years old,
00:46:13
clearly with retirement on their minds.
00:46:15
And nothing against this individual from
00:46:17
Fidelity, but unfortunately the guy just
00:46:19
didn't really know what he was talking
00:46:20
about. It ended up being a major
00:46:22
disappointment. And a bunch of my
00:46:23
colleagues afterwards said in short, you
00:46:25
know, man, we're really thirsty for good
00:46:27
financial retirement information. Where
00:46:29
do we go find it? Now, does that sound
00:46:32
true, listeners, for you and your
00:46:33
colleagues? Last year, either in person
00:46:36
or via Zoom, I spoke to about 800
00:46:38
employees at 11 different organizations.
00:46:41
Sometimes about personal finance in
00:46:42
general, sometimes about specifics of
00:46:44
their retirement plans, sometimes about
00:46:46
the the nitty-gritty details of social
00:46:48
security and withdrawal planning and
00:46:49
retirement math. The point being, if
00:46:52
you're interested in inviting me to come
00:46:54
talk money to you, to your colleagues,
00:46:55
where you work, that is absolutely
00:46:57
something I'm interested in talking to
00:46:59
you about. Simply drop me an email to
00:47:01
jesseb bestinest.blog and let's start a
00:47:03
conversation. And let's actually pivot
00:47:06
and talk about that a little bit. Let's
00:47:07
talk about what postservice life looks
00:47:09
like because I can just see all these
00:47:12
parallels between the transition to
00:47:14
retirement for all civilians, which is
00:47:16
something I talk a lot about, against
00:47:18
the transition to postservice life for
00:47:21
military members, whether that means
00:47:23
actual retirement for them or simply a
00:47:25
transition to a different career. But
00:47:27
I'm I'm really curious like what are
00:47:28
some of the biggest sticking points
00:47:30
financial or otherwise that that you've
00:47:32
seen when it comes to transitioning from
00:47:34
active duty to post service life?
00:47:37
>> Well, I'm actually I'm going to I'm
00:47:39
going to flip the question back on you,
00:47:40
Jesse, because I want to hear what you
00:47:41
have to say, but I'm going to I'm going
00:47:43
to frame it. I transitioned out of the
00:47:45
service before I was eligible for a
00:47:47
military retirement, but I did all the
00:47:50
classic
00:47:51
veteran mistakes, right? So, I didn't
00:47:53
have a job lined up when I got out
00:47:55
because I thought my side business was
00:47:57
going to be enough. And on the income
00:47:59
side, yes, it was enough. But on the
00:48:01
purpose and meaning side, no way. It It
00:48:04
just didn't fill that cup that didn't it
00:48:07
didn't fill that need that I didn't
00:48:09
realize was being met by my military
00:48:12
service. I got really depressed after
00:48:14
leaving active duty for a couple months.
00:48:18
And it wasn't until I started that first
00:48:20
job that I was flying for a a major US
00:48:24
airline that that kind of that like that
00:48:26
will for life just came back and I was
00:48:29
like, "Okay, like I I'm back in it. You
00:48:31
know, I've got a team again. I'm doing
00:48:33
it." But then I made the other veteran,
00:48:35
not mistake, but common thing that
00:48:38
happens where 6 months later I quit. I
00:48:40
very quickly after a couple months
00:48:42
flying, I was like, "This isn't it. This
00:48:45
doesn't it doesn't check that box. it
00:48:47
doesn't fill that purpose and meaning
00:48:48
need. So my flip back to you is when
00:48:51
you're talking to retirees who are
00:48:53
transitioning, you know, from the active
00:48:56
workforce to whatever they're going to
00:48:58
do in retirement besides the financial
00:49:01
stuff and we can get to that, but I'm
00:49:03
more curious in the purpose and meaning
00:49:04
stuff like how and is that something
00:49:07
that a conversation that you have with
00:49:09
your clients? Yeah, that's a that's a
00:49:11
big part of the ongoing conversation and
00:49:14
it varies client by client or if it's a
00:49:16
reader of the blog or listener of the
00:49:18
podcast. It varies person by person
00:49:20
because I will say, yeah, there are some
00:49:21
people who engage with me and they're
00:49:23
like, Jesse, I just want you to run the
00:49:25
math. I just want you to focus on the
00:49:26
numbers. I come to you for financial
00:49:28
advice. You're not my therapist. You're
00:49:29
not my psychologist. Which I get. But in
00:49:32
most cases over time, I can build enough
00:49:34
trust to build enough of a relationship
00:49:36
with someone to say like, "Hey, here's
00:49:38
something we found with a lot of
00:49:39
pre-retirees transitioning into
00:49:41
retirement." What we found is, and
00:49:43
there's some awesome data to to back
00:49:45
this up, what we found is most
00:49:47
pre-retirees put their finances as one
00:49:50
of, if not the top priority. But then
00:49:52
when you talk to people who are two or
00:49:54
four or 10 years into retirement, very
00:49:57
few people still rank finances as their
00:50:00
top priority. And almost all of them
00:50:02
rank lifestyle lifestyle issues is maybe
00:50:05
what I'll say. It's a broad term, but
00:50:06
lifestyle issues is your top priority.
00:50:08
And it could be right. What am I doing
00:50:10
just to fill up my days? How am I
00:50:13
maintaining my relationships? You know,
00:50:15
a huge one, a really good example. So
00:50:16
you think about the workplace. The
00:50:18
workplace, okay, yeah, it gave you that
00:50:20
paycheck and we can find a way to
00:50:21
replace that paycheck. But you might not
00:50:23
be thinking about the fact that it also
00:50:26
just gave you this purpose, this drive
00:50:28
to get out of bed every morning and to
00:50:29
fulfill someone's need out there in the
00:50:31
world. Like you enjoyed doing that. That
00:50:33
gave you purpose. Now you need to
00:50:34
replace it. And the workplace probably
00:50:36
also gave you a lot of socialization.
00:50:39
Whether they're your best friends or
00:50:40
even sometimes if you're like, "Yeah,
00:50:42
you know, I don't love all my
00:50:43
co-workers, but it's still nice to go
00:50:45
chat with someone at the coffee machine
00:50:46
in the morning." Well, you have to find
00:50:48
a way to replace that in retirement. And
00:50:51
news flash, your wife or your husband
00:50:54
might get sick of spending 12 hours a
00:50:56
day with you at some point. So like
00:50:57
shameless plug, episode 106, I I took
00:51:00
some of this data from Fritz Gilbert of
00:51:02
the Retirement Manifesto. Shout out
00:51:04
Fritz. It's called Retirees Mistakes and
00:51:06
Wakeup Calls: Expectations Versus
00:51:08
Reality. It was a deep dive on just this
00:51:10
topic. It's a little varied, Spencer,
00:51:13
but still there's a through line. Like
00:51:14
there are some consistencies that you
00:51:16
find over time having these
00:51:17
conversations and it's really big. It's
00:51:19
so much more than just the the finances.
00:51:21
>> I mean, the people who are listening to
00:51:23
my podcast, right, they tend to be the
00:51:25
optimizer in the relationship. They tend
00:51:27
to be the spreadsheet nerd, the one who
00:51:30
is like, "Oh, you know, like, oh, we got
00:51:31
to save $20 on Netflix cuz like run that
00:51:33
compounding interest graph. Look how
00:51:36
much it grows into."
00:51:37
>> And my plea to them is you're going to
00:51:41
be fine. The numbers are going to work.
00:51:43
You have run a thousand 10,000 Monte
00:51:47
Carlos simulations. not over, you know,
00:51:50
20, 30, 40, 50 year time horizons. As
00:51:53
long as as the United States continues
00:51:56
to exist in some form and capitalism
00:51:59
continues to exist in some form and
00:52:02
companies continue to pay their
00:52:04
shareholders dividends, you will be
00:52:05
fine. Set it all aside. You know, buy
00:52:07
your beans and bullets and your gold
00:52:08
bars if you need to, but like you're
00:52:10
going to be fine. Now, what are you
00:52:12
going to do? And people are just like,
00:52:14
well, you know, I'll figure it out. I'm
00:52:15
like, no, you're not going to figure it
00:52:16
out. I mean you you will because
00:52:18
everybody figures it out. But this is
00:52:20
the hard question. The the money stuff
00:52:22
for most people, the people who are
00:52:24
usually who are hiring financial
00:52:26
adviserss or who are the DIY super DIY
00:52:29
types that understand compounding
00:52:31
interest and understand the point of
00:52:34
tracking your dollars and making sure
00:52:35
that every every dollar has a job. It's
00:52:38
great. Every dollar has a job, but
00:52:39
what's your job? Like what are you going
00:52:40
to do when you've reached that financial
00:52:42
independence or that financial freedom?
00:52:44
And it's often ignored both by the
00:52:47
military service member who's
00:52:48
transitioning to the civilian world,
00:52:50
whether it's separation, medical
00:52:53
retirement, 20-year retirement, or
00:52:56
someone who's going from active duty to
00:52:57
the guard reserves, which again, I'll
00:53:00
I'll throw that out as as a great option
00:53:02
as just kind of easing your transition
00:53:05
is when you're done with active duty,
00:53:07
but if you if you enjoyed it, if you
00:53:09
liked it, and you want to be around
00:53:10
those people, take a look at the Garden
00:53:12
Reserve. usually their commitments are
00:53:13
not that ownorous and you're still going
00:53:17
to get to put on a uniform. You're still
00:53:18
going to get a lot of that community.
00:53:20
You're still going to be able to, you
00:53:22
know, it like if your civilian job
00:53:24
sucks, you just take active orders and
00:53:25
go full-time with the guarder reserve
00:53:28
and come back later to your civilian
00:53:30
job. Or you might get to the garden
00:53:32
reserve and be like, you know what, no,
00:53:33
like I'm good. I did it. This is a nice
00:53:36
transition, but I'm going to give these
00:53:37
guys a year and then I'm I'm fully I'm
00:53:39
going to be fully civilian. But at least
00:53:40
you're kind of like taking a slow,
00:53:43
measured approach to it and you're
00:53:44
giving yourself time. And I think that's
00:53:46
the thing that I want anybody who's
00:53:49
retiring from the military or
00:53:51
transitioning out of the military to the
00:53:53
civilian world or a civilian who's
00:53:56
retiring, I just want to say you're
00:53:59
going to be fine, but it's going to take
00:54:01
some time. And for some people, it's no
00:54:04
time at all, right? like they're like,
00:54:06
"No, I'm golfing every day and I'm so
00:54:08
excited and and my wife, you know, is
00:54:10
going to go do whatever she's going to
00:54:12
do and we've got the grandkids nearby
00:54:14
and like, you know, I talk to retirees
00:54:16
all the time who are like or people who
00:54:18
are financially independent. You look at
00:54:20
like Mr. Money Mustache or someone and
00:54:21
they always say like, "I don't have time
00:54:23
to work. Like, my life is so full. I
00:54:26
have so much going on. Like, I don't
00:54:29
know how I had time for a job before
00:54:30
this." And that's great. If that if
00:54:32
that's your situation, that's great. And
00:54:34
if that's not your situation and you've
00:54:35
you've separated from the military or
00:54:37
you're retiring from 40-year career in
00:54:40
your 60s and you're going into a more
00:54:42
traditional retirement as a civilian, it
00:54:45
might take a couple years and there
00:54:47
might be some dark moments in there of
00:54:49
you staring at the ceiling at 3:00 in
00:54:51
the morning thinking what did I do like
00:54:53
why like what and what am I doing here?
00:54:55
And it's a tough question, but it's okay
00:54:59
if you don't get an answer immediately.
00:55:01
And when you in 2 years, 3 years, 5
00:55:04
years, you might say, you know, I still
00:55:06
don't have an answer, but that's okay.
00:55:08
I'm working on it. You might have an
00:55:09
answer. You might say in uh the book,
00:55:12
The Second Mountain, David Brooks talks
00:55:14
about the four callings, and it's a
00:55:17
vocation. And so like not just a job but
00:55:20
like you know a passion the work that
00:55:22
you were meant to do in this world or
00:55:24
the Japanese icky guy.
00:55:26
>> The icky guy. There you go. What you
00:55:28
were meant to do. And then the other one
00:55:30
is um there there's four of them.
00:55:32
Religion, philosophy, community and
00:55:35
marriage. He kind of focuses on on on
00:55:37
those. For a lot of people, maybe
00:55:40
they've neglected their marriage because
00:55:42
of their work. Or maybe they've not been
00:55:46
involved as involved in their religious
00:55:48
community because they were busy doing
00:55:50
other things and raising kids. And you
00:55:52
know, life's busy. And you know, I see a
00:55:54
lot of retirees, my uh my wife's
00:55:58
grandmother, for instance, turning 90
00:56:00
years old and she's still in the church
00:56:02
choir, right? Like she still goes and
00:56:04
sings every every Sunday. and like her
00:56:08
friends are there and she knows she
00:56:10
talks to the pastor and or the priest
00:56:13
and it's such a you know joy for her to
00:56:16
have that part of her social calendar
00:56:18
and have that part of her week and
00:56:21
that's something you know the fact that
00:56:23
she has the time to do that and go
00:56:24
practice with them and be there on every
00:56:26
Sunday. Maybe that's something that
00:56:29
you're interested in doing and you just
00:56:30
didn't have the time when you were
00:56:32
working full-time and here you go.
00:56:34
Here's this opportunity. Here's this
00:56:35
gift. Don't squander it. A few different
00:56:37
things that you were saying there,
00:56:38
Spencer, just made me think of these two
00:56:39
two different metaphors that both oddly
00:56:41
coincidentally have to do with our
00:56:42
teenage years because, you know, I can
00:56:44
picture back to like being a high school
00:56:46
freshman and heading into the summers
00:56:47
off. You know, right now we're recording
00:56:49
in early July. It's summer off for high
00:56:51
school kids. And a lot of my friends and
00:56:53
I had this mindset where it's like, "Oh,
00:56:54
what are you going to do this summer?"
00:56:56
And it's like, "I don't really know.
00:56:57
Just not school." That's the answer.
00:56:59
Just not school. And that's a good
00:57:01
enough answer for that time in your life
00:57:03
because summer's two months long. And
00:57:05
okay, if you don't have the most
00:57:06
productive summer off kind of like who
00:57:08
cares? But I feel like that is the
00:57:10
mindset that some retirees go into
00:57:12
retirement with like what are you gonna
00:57:13
do? I don't know. Not work. That's it.
00:57:16
I'll figure it out. And not work is good
00:57:17
enough because I didn't like work. And
00:57:20
the answer of not work means I'm
00:57:21
therefore going to like it. And that's
00:57:23
just not the case. Because the second
00:57:25
metaphor is many of us can think back to
00:57:28
this time in life where maybe we're 17,
00:57:30
18. Maybe we're debating like do I go to
00:57:32
college? Do I go to the military? Do I
00:57:33
get a job? Or maybe it happened right
00:57:35
after college where it's like, do I go
00:57:37
to grad school? Or for me, like I got
00:57:39
this four-year degree in engineering. Do
00:57:40
I even like being an engineer? And the
00:57:42
point is like you don't quite feel
00:57:44
settled in life and you don't quite feel
00:57:46
like you have this defined path in front
00:57:47
of you and you're just trying to figure
00:57:49
it out.
00:57:50
>> There's a parallel between that and the
00:57:51
early years of retirement. Like you're
00:57:53
trying something new. It's a big life
00:57:55
transition. And for the first time in
00:57:57
decades, you've got nothing but time.
00:58:00
It's a big deal. And it might take, just
00:58:02
as you alluded to, it might take you
00:58:04
some time to figure out where your path
00:58:07
will take you and what feels good and
00:58:08
what feels comfortable. But if you can
00:58:10
do some of that work beforehand, that's
00:58:12
where I think people tend to have some
00:58:14
more retirement success rather than just
00:58:16
getting thrown into the deep end and
00:58:18
hoping they can tread enough water to
00:58:20
keep their head above above water. If
00:58:22
they ease their way into it by doing
00:58:24
some work beforehand, usually there's a
00:58:26
better result. I don't know if the same
00:58:28
applied to military transitioning out of
00:58:29
the military, but I got to think a
00:58:31
little bit of uh preparation can go a
00:58:33
long way.
00:58:34
>> You just triggered a couple ideas there
00:58:36
for the transitioning military service
00:58:38
member. And the first one, the the most
00:58:40
practical and tactical advice I can give
00:58:42
is there's a program called TAP,
00:58:44
transition assistance program. And when
00:58:47
you're within a year of separation, so
00:58:49
you've set a separation date or
00:58:51
retirement, you can start going to TAP
00:58:54
classes. And usually it's 2 or 3 days
00:58:56
and they have like an entrepreneurship
00:58:58
track and a civilian career track and
00:59:00
they'll give you a year free of LinkedIn
00:59:02
premium which I hate LinkedIn but there
00:59:04
you go. I guess some people some people
00:59:07
have leveraged it to succeed in life.
00:59:09
But the tap program I went to I went to
00:59:12
one and you have to go to one before you
00:59:14
can separate. But that was a mistake. I
00:59:16
think I should have gone probably as
00:59:19
soon as I was eligible. So as soon as I
00:59:20
was at one year out, just gone to like
00:59:22
the one or two day course and use that
00:59:25
as an opportunity to get the brain
00:59:27
juices flowing and thinking, okay, like
00:59:30
what is this going to look like? And I
00:59:31
thought I was well prepared for my my
00:59:34
transition. I mean, we had a very large
00:59:35
nest egg, we were essentially, if we
00:59:38
weren't lean, we were coast fire. I
00:59:40
mean, we were we were well on the path
00:59:42
to to just being straight straight up
00:59:44
fire and possibly even fat fire in the
00:59:46
next couple years. And so financially I
00:59:49
was we were very well prepared. You
00:59:51
know, I had a little bit of work to do
00:59:52
with the the podcast and the blog and
00:59:54
the book, but there was there was still
00:59:56
a lot of things that I I hadn't quite
00:59:58
figured out. And I don't know if I would
01:00:00
have figured them out because I'd gone
01:00:02
to a tap class earlier, but at least I
01:00:05
would have started kind of the process
01:00:06
and maybe instead of couple months of
01:00:09
wallowing in existential and we I I
01:00:13
could have I could have shortened that a
01:00:14
little bit. And so that that's that
01:00:16
would be my my advice for someone
01:00:17
separating from the military is go to
01:00:18
the TAP program more than once. Just go
01:00:20
twice and do it as soon as you are
01:00:22
eligible for and then do it a little bit
01:00:24
closer to separation because the other
01:00:26
thing is that they dump so much
01:00:27
information on you while you're in there
01:00:30
that it's very hard to absorb it in one
01:00:33
goound and you're going to pick up like
01:00:35
you know just like listening to one of
01:00:37
Jesse's podcast or my podcast the second
01:00:39
time you listen to the episode you're
01:00:40
going to glean even more information and
01:00:43
different information. So, I highly
01:00:45
recommend that for transitioning
01:00:47
military service members, you you look
01:00:49
at using the TAP program to your
01:00:51
advantage.
01:00:52
>> And you know, there are similar versions
01:00:54
uh here in civilian life, whether it's
01:00:56
just like something as simple as a class
01:00:58
at your community center or something
01:00:59
from AP or I mean, the really nice thing
01:01:02
is so much financial content on the
01:01:04
internet is written for the general
01:01:06
audience. A lot of it is just free and
01:01:09
out there and you just have to go find
01:01:10
it. But it is out there. But anyway,
01:01:13
Spencer, you you've mentioned a few
01:01:14
times now, your book, your blog, and of
01:01:16
course your podcast, which I know my I'm
01:01:19
sure my military listeners are want to
01:01:21
go find it, and maybe even some folks
01:01:22
who are listening who just they have
01:01:24
friends in the military, they have
01:01:25
children in the military, they're going
01:01:26
to want to forward it on to the people
01:01:28
they know. How can our listeners go out
01:01:30
and and find your work?
01:01:31
>> You could start at
01:01:32
militarymoneymanual.com.
01:01:34
That's the hub of the uh the content
01:01:37
universe of of uh all my my ramblings
01:01:40
and rantings for the last oh shoot I
01:01:43
think I started in 2012 so almost 13
01:01:45
years now at the time of this recording.
01:01:47
And then if you uh enjoyed listening to
01:01:50
my uh my snifferous voice then you can
01:01:53
go to the military money manual podcast
01:01:55
Spotify and Apple. Finally, you can find
01:01:58
the book which is creatively titled The
01:02:00
MilitaryMoney Manual and that's on
01:02:02
Amazon and also at
01:02:04
shop.mmillitarymoneymanual.com.
01:02:07
Check out all the versions there,
01:02:09
audiobook and ebook and hardcover and
01:02:11
everything. The podcast uh I do with my
01:02:13
uh my buddy uh Jamie. He's still active
01:02:15
duty officer. We started it to promote
01:02:18
the book and it's just grown and we're
01:02:20
almost up to 200 episodes. So, we're
01:02:22
having too much fun doing it. We've had
01:02:23
some great guests on there and we'll be
01:02:25
publishing this episode on there as
01:02:27
well. And so, where can people find what
01:02:30
you're working on?
01:02:31
>> Ooh, thank you for that. I wanted to
01:02:32
give you accommodation. That's a
01:02:34
military term, right? A commenation for
01:02:36
branding consistency, Spencer.
01:02:37
Excellent. The military money manual
01:02:39
everywhere you look.
01:02:40
>> Everywhere you look.
01:02:42
>> The hub, if you will, for me is
01:02:44
bestinterest.blog.
01:02:46
That is my blog. That's where I do all
01:02:48
my writing. And the homepage right
01:02:50
there, bestinterest.blog. That's where
01:02:51
people can sign up for my my weekly
01:02:53
newsletter, which is just an easy way
01:02:55
that people can keep in touch with my
01:02:57
new articles and my new podcast
01:02:59
episodes. The podcast is available
01:03:01
anywhere you're listening. If you're
01:03:03
listening to it right now, you're at a
01:03:04
good spot considering it is this
01:03:06
podcast. Personal finance for long-term
01:03:08
investors is the name. And right, we do
01:03:11
deep dives on uh financial planning
01:03:13
topics, tax planning topics, a little
01:03:15
bit of the psychology that goes into
01:03:17
long-term investing and retirement. So,
01:03:19
if you're looking to to deep dive and
01:03:21
learn more, it's it's a pretty good
01:03:22
place to to do that.
01:03:24
>> I love it when Money Podcast barely
01:03:27
touch like we didn't I don't think we
01:03:28
use any percentages or or dollar amounts
01:03:30
on the show, but then the dollar amounts
01:03:33
and and the math and really there's so
01:03:36
much more that goes into these
01:03:38
questions. And the last thing I I wanted
01:03:39
to leave your your listeners with,
01:03:41
especially because we tend to be
01:03:42
optimizers, but the five types of wealth
01:03:44
by Sahil Bloom, I just read it. And for
01:03:48
an optimizer, it's great because it
01:03:50
gives you a different framework to
01:03:52
measure yourself against rather than
01:03:54
just what's the net worth, what's the
01:03:56
net worth, what's my income, you know,
01:03:58
what's the tax rate. And for retirees
01:04:01
especially, you know, you're going to be
01:04:03
gifted this opportunity of you're going
01:04:05
to have more control. Hopefully, you're
01:04:06
going to have more control of your time.
01:04:08
And that's one of the, you know, the
01:04:10
five types of wealth that he talks about
01:04:11
in there. I think it can give the person
01:04:15
transitioning from a civilian job to
01:04:17
civilian retirement or a military job to
01:04:20
a military retirement. It can give you
01:04:22
that framework of if you're rich in one
01:04:25
area, if you're listening to this
01:04:26
podcast, you might be rich in the
01:04:30
financial wealth, but you might be
01:04:32
impoverished in another category. And
01:04:34
that just gives you as an optimizer. Now
01:04:36
it's your job to increase your your net
01:04:39
worth, so to speak, in that other wealth
01:04:42
category. So, five types of wealth to
01:04:44
heal bloom. I really enjoyed it. Highly
01:04:46
recommend it to all your listeners.
01:04:48
>> Awesome. That's a great recommendation.
01:04:50
Thank you, Spencer. Good to talk to you,
01:04:51
man.
01:04:52
>> Thank you, Jesse.
01:04:52
>> Thanks for tuning in to this episode of
01:04:54
Personal Finance for Long-Term
01:04:56
Investors. If you have a question for
01:04:58
Jesse to answer on a future episode,
01:05:00
send him an email over at his blog, The
01:05:03
Bestinest. His email address is
01:05:05
01:05:07
Again, that's jessevestinterest.blog.
01:05:11
Did you enjoy the show? Subscribe, rate,
01:05:13
and review the podcast wherever you
01:05:15
listen. This helps others find the show
01:05:17
and invest in knowledge themselves. And
01:05:20
we really appreciate it. We'll catch you
01:05:22
on the next episode of Personal Finance
01:05:24
for Long-Term Investors. Personal
01:05:26
Finance for Long-Term Investors is a
01:05:28
personal podcast meant for education and
01:05:31
entertainment. It should not be taken as
01:05:33
financial advice and it's not
01:05:34
prescriptive of your financial
01:05:36
situation.
