00:00:00
He also wore a cheese head at one point and he didn't look bad in the cheese head. I'll be honest with you. Most people don't look good in cheese heads.
00:00:05
So, I guess that's a pro.
00:00:12
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine, the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. Scott is off today and
00:00:18
in his place I got someone much more superior. I brought in Jen Saki, the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Saki,
00:00:25
who also has a new podcast, The Blueprint, which is excellent. I recommend everyone to listen to it. Uh
00:00:30
we're doing a little crossover event because I was on her show this weekend. She promised to bring dirty jokes in Scott's absence on the show. Welcome,
00:00:36
Jen. I mean, Cara, first of all, as a listener, I as I told you yesterday, I was like, I have to bring inappropriate
00:00:43
jokes and inappropriate things to be said. Okay. But I don't know. I don't know that that's my vibe. I'm just
00:00:48
trying to be my authentic. Do you have any Do you have a dirty joke that you promised on the air last? I really don't. But maybe the conversation will
00:00:54
bring me around to it. Maybe you'll bring me around to free feel free to say inappropriate things. I feel free feel
00:00:59
free on your podcast. All right. I we've got a lot to get to today, but like how how is it going there now? Explain what
00:01:04
you're doing. You're you're doing 103 shows for MSNBC. Is that correct? Or what's the
00:01:10
approximately? Well, right now I'm doing a show on Sundays. I'm doing a show on Mondays. They're a little different. Um
00:01:16
because Sundays, which you were on yesterday, it's a different thing. People are sitting down with their coffee. They want big picture. That's
00:01:23
what we try to do. and Mondays is just what the hell just happened today. So, it's a little bit different. I have a
00:01:28
podcast called The Blueprint. Explain what the blueprint why it's called The Blueprint. You and I talked about this. Yeah. I mean, the blueprint was was my
00:01:34
form of therapy. I don't know if you find podcasting to be therapeutic, but for me, it was after the election and I
00:01:41
like many people, I was like, what the hell just happened? I wasn't shocked, but I just felt like so many things were
00:01:47
missed, including by me and so many things I got wrong. And I um so for me,
00:01:53
my therapy was making a list of people who I felt would be candid, say what they actually thought, not pretend like
00:02:00
they know all the answers cuz no one does. Um I made kind of a list. I make I like write everything on note cards. I'm
00:02:05
like an old lady, but I made like a back of the envelope list of people. Um some of them, some I think you know all of
00:02:12
them, right? It's like people who would just say what's on their minds. You know, Jamal Hill, Rahm Emanuel, Don
00:02:18
Lemon, none of these people are holding back. Um Right. Right. So, we did that. We were only going to do six episodes.
00:02:23
We ended up doing nine and we're going to reboot it in the fall. Oh, great. So,
00:02:28
why the blueprint? Explain for the kids who don't know what a blueprint is. I know. I think you told me. We talked about this and you were like, it's a
00:02:34
very old timey phrase. We're going to do guys like so many people. I consult
00:02:42
with the great Cara Swisser about like every career move and thing I do in my life. Um, we're going to do the mimograph. That's what I said. I said,
00:02:49
remember the What if we call it the record player? Would people relate to that? Um, the blueprint. Actually,
00:02:54
they're back. They're back, Jack. I know that, you know, my daughter has a record player. The blueprint is not back, but go ahead. Well, we're bringing it back.
00:03:01
We're bringing it back. Okay. Um, the blueprint is how do Democrats win again.
00:03:07
So, reflecting on what just happened, what people got wrong, but also looking ahead to what to change moving forward.
00:03:15
Um, and there's a lot of criticism people have on the that for episodes
00:03:20
we've done so far, which I think is healthy. People don't all disagree with each other either, and that's kind of the point. Um, so that's the purpose.
00:03:27
When you're thinking about this, your transition from from politics, you know, it's been a while. You and I met right
00:03:33
before you started, um, after you left the White House. What's it been like for you shifting over? I mean, the initial
00:03:40
stages were a combo of I literally had never seen a teleprompter before, right?
00:03:46
I didn't know what it looked like. And it's not the most important thing, but you want to be functional enough on it
00:03:51
that you it's smooth. And and the biggest part of it is if if it's your own words and your own voice, which
00:03:56
sounds obvious, but it isn't always. So, learning how to use a teleprompter, read a teleprompter, and really learning how
00:04:03
to write for TV, which is different from writing for a politician or writing a
00:04:08
book or writing an op-ed. Um, so that was its own kind of technical
00:04:13
transition. Um, I also think when you transition careers, sometimes you think
00:04:19
you have to become a version of what you see, right? Like I have to look at anchors and be an anchor. And really,
00:04:26
you just have to be yourself. Um, and it took me a while to feel comfort, not too
00:04:31
long, but a little bit comfortable in what that meant. Um, and in some ways,
00:04:37
um, and the other thing I was very mindful of that I when I started was I'd obviously been Joe Biden's press
00:04:43
secretary until a couple of months before I started and until about eight months before my show started. And I
00:04:50
didn't I think you and I talked about this. I had I didn't I was thought a lot about not wanting to be perceived as his
00:04:57
spokesperson but also not being inauthentically all of a sudden I'm down the middle because I'm not you know I
00:05:03
mean I've worked in politics for 20 years I'm not down the middle I have points of view and so that was its own
00:05:09
kind of journey uh for me now when um when he when the debate debacle happened
00:05:17
and I said what I saw as everybody saw um that maybe broke the fever of that.
00:05:24
That wasn't my intention, but um but now now it's a little different because um
00:05:30
we have a new I mean our new show it's going to be at 9:00 on Tuesdays through Fridays is launching in May. And one of
00:05:36
the things I've been thinking a lot about is that I kind of shied away from
00:05:42
talking as much about my own experience and my experience in government and politics. I do sometimes, but now it
00:05:50
feels like there is this real hunger. And I I know this anecdotally. I know this from people who, you know, message
00:05:56
me on social media or email. I know this from people I run into at the airport. How the hell does this work? What's
00:06:03
how's this supposed to work? What's broken? What's not? And I think um I
00:06:08
didn't Lord knows work for the current president. Um, there's many, many Democrats. That would be funny. That
00:06:13
would be a great show. Oh my god. Um, many, many Democrats who may run for
00:06:19
office president one day. Who the hell knows? I wrote for all of them. Um, but I don't have any dog in the fight. You
00:06:25
know what I mean? So now I feel like I can dive back into that a lot more and give your expertise and give my
00:06:32
expertise. And I think I shy away from that initially because I was so worried about being perceived as kind of this
00:06:37
continuing spokesperson. Right. Right. So, we're going to give you a little workout today on that. So, you're gonna have a lot to get to today. So,
00:06:43
including Tesla protests worldwide, Elon buying his own company in a weird kind of flim flammy kind of thing, and
00:06:49
Trump's latest uh partnering spree. And we're also going to talk a little bit about the White House uh correspondents association, which you have had a lot of
00:06:55
experience with. I have all the things. Good. Oh, great. Okay. So, let's let's first talk with uh the latest with
00:07:01
Signal Gate. I call it Whiskey Leaks, so you can call it whatever you want. I love that word. Whiskey. I like that Whiskey Leaks. It's good. Come on. I'm
00:07:07
sorry, Peta, but you deserve it. This weekend, there were reports that Trump was asking around for opinions on whether he should fire national security
00:07:14
adviser Waltz. But when asked by NBC, the president said he doesn't quote fire people because of fake news and witch
00:07:19
hunts, his go-to excuses. He cares more about not giving into the media than he does about helping himself in a weird
00:07:26
way. Defense Secretary Pete Hegath is really helping we're not a messy cause by reportedly bringing his wife to two
00:07:32
meetings with foreign military counterparts. and his brother. Hiring his brother where sensitive information was discussed. So talk about this like
00:07:40
you've been in there where there's been there's been a gate blank gate whatever it happens to be every administration has them something occurs. What is the
00:07:48
what happens inside versus outside? This is a unique president who just doesn't want to give in to the media. I think there that is a bigger deal than people
00:07:55
realize. Yeah. Look well. Okay. But neither did Biden, right? The Biden probably doesn't either, right? Or
00:08:00
whoever. No president does. First of all, every president I worked for two are they're all pissed off when the
00:08:06
press writes things about them that are negative, even if they're entirely fair. What you know, now uh he's Trump is
00:08:13
obviously uniquely against the freedom of press. I would say people may argue that, but I think that's a fair
00:08:18
statement. Now, normally in a case like this, what would happen is you have a scandal, a controversy, whatever it may
00:08:25
be. Um you get together. In this case, if it were, let's just say normal times for a moment, um I would have gotten
00:08:32
together with Jake Sullivan and the national security team and Anita Dunn and Ron Clayton and we all would have
00:08:38
talked about like what actually happened here. You want to have a full understanding of the full damage, right?
00:08:43
So, it's not drip drip drip. This is the biggest communications 101 mistake is not having an whole understanding of all
00:08:51
of the things that could come out. Um, and in this case it would have been what were the other signal chains, which is
00:08:58
probably knowable internally, but Mike Waltz also had that automatic delete after 30 days. Um, it's a long delete,
00:09:05
just so you know. But go ahead. Yeah, but but still, I mean, the administration's 60 70 something days
00:09:11
old, right? So, and they had access to classified information during the transition, so it could have even gone beyond that. Um, and you would have
00:09:18
decided kind of what are we going to say about it? Is it something the press secretary says? Is it something Jake Sullivan comes and talks at the briefing
00:09:24
about and then I answer questions and then you before you do any of that you go get it approved by the president.
00:09:30
That's a normal process, right? There's no doubt that's not what happened here. Um but that's what you would normally
00:09:36
do. It looks like everyone was freelancing because he had that disastrous Waltz was disastrous. Even on Fox News he was disaster. If Laura
00:09:42
Ingram doesn't believe your line of [ __ ] you're you're kind of [ __ ] And Cara, I mean, if you start your
00:09:47
answer with um something about like some people say I'm a conspiracy theorist or there's a then you sound like a
00:09:53
conspiracy theorist. I mean, it's like, you know, what what are we? So, yes, they're all free on and and and Pete
00:09:58
Hexath was freewheeling somewhere under some Well, Pete Hexth went out. I mean, there's the crazy video from last week
00:10:05
after Jeffrey Goldberg had put out the full You don't have to call them war plans. their specific logistical
00:10:12
military attack details. Right after that had already been out on the Atlantic, Pete Hexath went to the
00:10:18
cameras. You know, he talks loud, very loudly and aggressively when he's trying to deny something, which he has a lot of
00:10:24
experience doing, but um he went out and denied it. I mean, it's just But I I
00:10:30
also feel like this whole thing of if they just admit that that there was a mistake and then we'd move on, I don't I
00:10:37
don't think Democrats would have and I don't think they should have. I mean, this is just kind of like a a [ __ ] A
00:10:42
[ __ ] right? A [ __ ] up. So, now the problem though, well, the problem what
00:10:48
happens now? What happens now when it's still here? It still hasn't left. It's a little bit like a sore that won't heal.
00:10:54
Well, I mean, I think there's a question, right? Does Mike Walt survive?
00:10:59
um he's the easiest one to fire because it's not a confirmed position and any president can name um uh anyone they
00:11:07
want to that position just like any other political appointee in the White House. People can hate the choice um but
00:11:14
he's the easiest one to fire. Pete Hgsth is probably the one who's more justified to be fired. I mean, you could argue
00:11:20
whatever because he's the one who put the information on there, but then he's got to nominate a new defense secretary.
00:11:26
And I think all the reporting, which I think is true for any president, is you
00:11:31
step away from a cabinet member and that makes you look weak, too. So that seems to be part of the discussion. I would I
00:11:37
would bet. Plus getting someone to confirm for that job. So brazen it out is a better tactic here. Well, look, if
00:11:44
you if he fire if he fires Mike Waltz, then he just names another national security adviser. So more on Trump's
00:11:50
feuds with lawsuits. Uh Wilmer Hail uh and Jenner and Block have sued the Trump
00:11:55
administration over executive orders targeting them for employing um attorneys or representing groups he
00:12:01
doesn't like. Since being in office, Trump has signed five executive orders targeting law firms with punishments.
00:12:06
One firm, Paul Weiss, got out of Trump's crosshairs by agreeing to perform $40 million worth of proono work for Trump
00:12:12
friendly causes. Scatteren, another major law firm, has agreed to provide hund00 million of free legal work.
00:12:18
Federal judges have temporarily blocked Trump's efforts to punish Wilmer Hair and Jenner and Block and others like Perkins Gooey are pushing back. Do you
00:12:26
how do you think about this? Because this is something maybe you wished you could have done in the Biden administration, but you're you're always
00:12:32
and a lot of these firms are doing it for financial reasons because clients will leave them if they don't have
00:12:37
security clearances or if the Trump administration is hostile to them. So they would they would see an exit of
00:12:43
clients presumably. Well, which is why they're doing it, right? I don't think we ever would have wished we would have
00:12:49
done could have done it. I'm not and maybe I'm t maybe some people did. I just feel like it's got such a bad it's
00:12:55
kind of counter to what most presidents argue they're for, right? Which is kind of rule of law and you can be pissed off
00:13:02
about what courts do, but it doesn't mean you did you ignore it and it doesn't mean you pressure law firms not
00:13:08
to represent clients. I mean, it's I think it's I mean, there's lots of things to be worried about right now,
00:13:14
but this is one I think that's a legit one to be worried about. I mean, tell me why from your perspective. Well, because
00:13:20
I think you have these law firms who are making a business decision, not a crime, but also one where it's a version in my
00:13:27
view of obedience in advance. Um it is deciding that um in order to survive,
00:13:34
which they have to do as a business and as a law firm, you are going to agree to
00:13:40
things that you wouldn't normally agree to. Um and you give Trump power over
00:13:45
you. And I think for any president that's dangerous, Democrat or Republican, but I don't there's not a
00:13:50
Democrat who's tried to do that. So that what but what do you does it concern you? I think they I think they will I
00:13:56
think they will even if they lose because the judges are pushing back on these things, it will have done business
00:14:02
damage to these companies and these law firms and so it doesn't matter. And then I think later administrations including
00:14:08
Democratic ones will be looking at a lot of these moves and thinking this worked. Maybe they may not have the permission
00:14:15
structure Trump has but it's not some once it once it's crossed you're like huh could I do that? Even if you say,
00:14:21
"I'd never do that." You kind of are like, "I could maybe have a little more influence over irritating lawyers or
00:14:27
irritating press people. So maybe I'll sue a little bit more." I I think it opens a floodgate of behaviors. And I
00:14:33
think if Democrats thinks they'd never do it, I think they're not telling. I don't I I don't I think some Democrats
00:14:38
would do it. I I I just maybe I just think though it's kind of what I mean is
00:14:44
if you're kind of an arguing part of your argument is I believe in kind of the rule of law and I believe in kind of
00:14:51
the legal system um then then making these sort
00:14:56
of so frontal deals with law firms feels counter to that. I mean so I don't know.
00:15:03
I I I I just I guess there's lots of things Trump does and that Trump administration does that maybe do open
00:15:09
floodgates, but I but not in this case. So, one of the things that's interesting is which firms are agreeing and which
00:15:15
firms are not. Why? To me, that's really like why has uh these others saying no
00:15:21
[ __ ] way and the others are going along with it. And that to me is a really and then what it does to their
00:15:26
businesses because I don't mean to be rude but I don't find lawyers to be the most you know backbony of people like
00:15:32
journalists are a different thing when they start suing journalists they may they may stick together although we'll
00:15:37
get to that later they aren't in the case of the White House correspondents they're not joining as a group but I do
00:15:42
think that they I'd really like to understand why other you know even though they're trying to stop these
00:15:49
punishments and and federal judges are blocking these e efforts why certain groups did it and certain
00:15:56
groups didn't because presumably they all have the same business problem going forward. Well, do you think do you think
00:16:01
they're making a business calculation of their own that they can get? But it's like liberal causes. How does that make
00:16:07
them the same amount of money as businesses that I mean, you know, you see this in kind of the consulting
00:16:13
world, right? Um, which is like it's it's really hard. Not wo is wo poor
00:16:19
Democrats, but what's true is it's very hard to be get hired right now as Democrat, right? person who's left the Biden administration, no matter how good
00:16:25
and whatever your skill set is, because every company is like, we need closer ties to Trump, right? Not to you. Yeah,
00:16:31
that's every calculation. Now, there these things are cyclical. Well, let's hope they're cyclical. I will hope they're cyclical, but um but but yeah, I
00:16:40
don't I would I guess it's a it's a calculation of that sort, but what businesses what I don't know. What do
00:16:45
you think? What businesses are going to be like, well, they're they're not falling they're they're not falling prey to this, so I'm going to go with them. I
00:16:52
I don't know. If I were a law firm, it's four years. I better do what he wants for the next and then later I'll get Well, at least the next year and a half
00:16:58
or two, right? Because then, who knows? Payback can be a [ __ ] I mean, well, yeah, the house could be controlled by
00:17:04
Democrat. It could be a little bit more like, you know, we're going to investigate why you gave in here, why you exactly. So, it's coming and going.
00:17:13
It just I think it does create a really interesting situation for Democrats to whether they're going to be as bullying
00:17:18
going forward. And you don't think they will? I think they will. I think, you know, maybe I'm naive about the law firm
00:17:23
thing and I I'm not I do think they're going to be more bullying about other things. The
00:17:29
law firm thing, you're right. Like they're businesses. They have to make calculations and maybe Right. I don't
00:17:35
know. Well, where they're attacking is law firms, judges, media. It it sort of makes a lot of sense and it's very
00:17:40
strict. It's a very strict effort to like styy law firms from defending press
00:17:46
people, for example, things like that. Or taking on clients that would remotely offend the Trump administration. That's
00:17:52
correct. So, is that what you want to agree to? Yeah, that's correct. And that does I mean, again, I mean, doesn't it
00:17:59
feel counter to why people say they went to law school? Yes, it does. But that's they also like money quite a bit, Jen. I
00:18:05
don't know if you know that. We'll we'll go on a quick break when we come back. Elon hits the campaign trail in Wisconsin and also acquires his own
00:18:12
company. Jent, we're back. Elon says the destiny of humanity rests on the
00:18:17
Wisconsin Supreme Court election, which is happening Tuesday. Elon appeared at a town hall in Green Bay, Wisconsin on
00:18:23
Sunday where he gave out million-dollar checks to two Wisconsin voters. He also wore a cheese hat at one point. He
00:18:28
didn't look bad in the cheese head, I'll be honest with you. Blamed I look good in cheese head, but I thought he looked okay. I think it worked for him. Um, and
00:18:35
blamed George Soros when he was heckled, but okay. The Wisconsin Attorney General did try to stop the giveaway, but his
00:18:40
suit was rejected by the state supreme court just before Elon's event began. Elon is affiliated groups have now spent
00:18:46
over $20 million to help the conservative candidate in this judicial race. We're recording a day before the election. Um, I'd love you to sort of
00:18:53
assess his political, if you're in a political suit, like how do you think
00:18:58
his communications are? How do you think his impact is? By the way, there are also two special house elections in
00:19:03
Florida this week to fill Matt Gates and Mike Walls's seats. The race for Wall seat is tighter than Republicans
00:19:09
expected, although both Republicans are expected to win there. Um, talk to me a little bit about what the Elon effect is
00:19:17
happening. Again, there were Tesla takedown protests all over the country. Some very creative and it's ongoing and
00:19:22
it's really affected uh Tesla stock um as much as President Trump and others are trying hard to stop it. I mean, I
00:19:29
think his power is his money. Um, and his money is not paying for uh, I mean,
00:19:36
as much as he was in Wisconsin on Sunday, it's not paying for, "Hi, I'm Elon Musk, go out and vote in the Wisconsin State Supreme Court race."
00:19:43
It's paying for all sorts of things, including convincing, you know, getting people to register or to vote to
00:19:48
participate in this whatever we're calling this, a raffle. I don't even know how to call it, the thing where he gives out money, a raffle. Um, so that's
00:19:57
his money is his power. I mean, as and his platforms are his power. um his platforms are his power. Um and so I
00:20:04
don't think I don't think any Democrat should underestimate that. At the same time, um he's more unpopular than Trump,
00:20:12
right? And I don't think Trump if Trump were if if there were Democrat if there
00:20:17
were uh if there were House races now I don't think any House candidates would put him in an ad but they would happily
00:20:23
take his money and they'd happily get his favor so that they would get um
00:20:29
favored status on Twitter or X or whatever or not be attacked by Trump. would that be a fact, right? There's
00:20:35
lots of ways to look at that, right? I mean, um so um and I and the Wisconsin
00:20:42
state supreme, we'll see we'll see what the turnout is and but it's still and then you know, you talk to Democrats,
00:20:47
Ben Wickler, who's the party chair and others, and they say the turnout's going to be high. That may be the case, but it's still a state supreme court case or
00:20:54
race. It's not a governor's race. It's not a presidential race and the money he's spending there matters, right? Um,
00:21:01
so that's where I think his power is. So money, just money. Do you think I mean his destiny of humanity thing, he's done
00:21:07
this about I've heard him do it 27 times in the time I've known him. It's like if Tesla doesn't survive, humanity is
00:21:13
doomed. He told me once and I was like, "Okay, all right, sure, Chad." Um, and one of the things that's he's very
00:21:19
dramatic about this, but isn't it positive for him to be so like imagine a Democratic president and say Reed
00:21:26
Hoffman decides he wants to be next to the president at all times, you know, and there was a little bit of push back in the Obama administration when Eric
00:21:32
Schmidt was there too much, right? He was he was buddies with Jim Msina, I think on like speed dialis. That's
00:21:38
exactly. So, is that a how do you deal with that? Do you think it's a good thing or or is it gone too far here?
00:21:44
Everybody says they're going to have a breakup. They aren't. They You and I disagreed. I don't think they're going to break up. Why would they? Their money
00:21:50
is good. He He's a heat shield. That's Those are my arguments. Yeah. I mean, the heat shield I think is the most like
00:21:57
clearest as long as he continues to be a heat shield. I think where we disagreed and I feel like you have some sort of
00:22:03
insider trading knowledge because you just like know him better than I do is like will he be there in a year himself
00:22:09
because of his businesses? Will will no. Will Elon Musk still be like in the Trump orbit in a year? You think yes,
00:22:16
right? Yes. I think no. Although I only bet $5, so I wasn't like So why no? Tell
00:22:21
me. I'll tell you my yes in a second. But why no from your perspective? Um I
00:22:26
think if Musk feels like a political problem to Trump, um I know he's a heat
00:22:33
shield, but you can go from a heat shield to becoming a political problem. um including if Democrats get their act
00:22:40
together and figure out a more effective way of talking about Doge cuts and cuts to Social Security and things like that,
00:22:47
then he's not going to be as convenient as a buddy. Mhm. So, so then he won't be
00:22:54
as around as much in the orbit, right? And what how do you how do you eliminate excise someone like that? Just so people
00:23:00
are aware, uh Tesla's shares are down another 4% today. It's down 13% for the
00:23:07
month. Although one year over year, he's he's up 50%. It took a big leap during
00:23:13
um when Trump won. Well, do you think Musk would exit himself or you think it's Trump exiting him? One I think he
00:23:20
exits himself if his business interests, but he seems to be doing all kinds of manner of of hoping AI, you know, using
00:23:27
the AI bubble and things like that. So, I don't see Trump cutting ties with him. I just don't I just think it's too
00:23:33
problematic. He's he's brought him in too close. Um what what happens? What how do you deal with an angry Elon Musk?
00:23:40
Because he's unstable, right? He could do anything with enormous amounts of money. I think you keep him in the tent
00:23:45
no matter you have other rich friends who take his place in the tech world or certainly. But I'm talking about an
00:23:52
unhinged Elon Musk attacking you. Like that could be a very it would be the story, right? It would it's a great
00:23:58
story. But I don't Trump I don't know how much he cares. I like he's had people attacking him all the time. Yeah.
00:24:04
I mean I So I you know how do you ex how do you rid him? I mean I don't mean to
00:24:11
sound dark here. I'm saying you can go whatever. You just put someone else in charge of Doge. You like say um this guy
00:24:20
like has is out of whack or whatever. You say I don't know who knows he he offs people all the time in terms of his
00:24:27
orbit. So there's all sorts of ways to off Elon Musk in his orbit. I think that
00:24:32
the interesting thing to me is if it to your point is if Trump and Musk at some point have a falling out. I think there
00:24:39
was a theory which I don't think you ever agreed with that it like but might not it might be a short honeymoon. It's already a long honeymoon. Then there's a
00:24:47
an interesting thing for the future of the Republican party. I mean if you're if you're JD Vance you don't want to be
00:24:52
in the crosshairs of Trump but you also don't want to be in the crosshairs of Elon Musk. Right. That's correct. JD Vance is like 40some. Um he's maybe he's
00:25:00
around for a long time. Maybe he wears that as welcome with Republicans too. I have no idea. But if you're a lot of these future Republicans, you care about
00:25:08
Musk and you care about Steve Bannon who doesn't like Musk. So that's a different that's an interesting calculation if
00:25:14
Trump a falling out. Which way do you go with each of them? Yeah, it's interesting. So last question, one of
00:25:20
the things we talked about was the idea of of of this of his of these these
00:25:25
protests because thousands of people over 250 protested him over the weekend with rallies held at these Tesla
00:25:30
showrooms around the world. The protests were part of so-called Tesla takedown movement in effort to push back against
00:25:35
him, encourage people to stop buying them. Protesters branded signs that said things like fight the billionaire
00:25:41
oligarchy and send Musk to Mars now. Um uh what do you make of these protests?
00:25:46
Is it is there there it see they seem I don't think they're sort you know Musk is blaming victimization these are real
00:25:53
protests people really don't like my son writes me about it now he's like what an [ __ ] and he liked him right and so
00:26:00
um how do you look at these from a from a Democratic perspective is it a good thing for the Democratic party to see
00:26:07
these happening or to me they just don't like them like Reed Hoffman says they just don't like you bro that's why
00:26:13
they're there they don't like them but I think it's um furthering the heat shield
00:26:18
uh that you you've talked about and I totally agree with because it is taking the energy and anger that you are seeing
00:26:25
from a lot of Democrats out there and directing it at Tesla. Now, I I think
00:26:32
it's very warranted. Elon Musk has done some very bad things, but I kind of wish these people were protesting about Trump
00:26:38
and Social Security or Trump and something else, Medicaid cuts. Um
00:26:44
because I don't I don't know. Ultimately, are people going to go to the polls in November and in November, a year and a half from now about Tesla? I
00:26:51
mean, I'd be surprised. A lot of things can happen, but I think that's the only thing that's a little You wish they were
00:26:57
This is what they're mad about and not I wish it was something I wish they directed all of their pain, anger, and
00:27:03
passionate do to to to cycle that in.
00:27:09
Well, I mean, this is or presumably somewhere organic. I haven't seen but you tell me that that these Tesla
00:27:16
protests are they being organized by any like democratic grassroots groups I have some some are some are some aren't just
00:27:22
like every other protest everything but but I think um there are things that are
00:27:28
happening that are sort of organic but have been been you know indivisible and others have been additive to it like
00:27:33
these town hall meetings right showing all up at town hall meetings town hall meetings being held in Republican
00:27:39
districts um more of that I think though there's not enough Democrats who are
00:27:44
doing that. There are plenty who are doing there are some who are doing it, I should say, but there needs to be more
00:27:49
of that and people for people to feel like they have a place to go and to direct their energies. Um, I don't know.
00:27:55
I still think there's some work on kind of the coordination and kind of what the messaging is and what people should be
00:28:02
doing who are writing letters and things. A lot of it is still about Tesla and maybe it will be for a while about
00:28:07
Tesla. That's a really good point. Yeah, it shouldn't be about Tesla cuz then he's not the president. Like he's not
00:28:12
the president. That's why it doesn't get affected of Trump. Although Trump's affiliation with Elon is so strong, it
00:28:18
does have residual effects. Um, and one of the things speaking of money, he's
00:28:23
trying to get richer. He acquired Elon Musk's X has been acquired by Elon Musk's XAI. Elon announced the deal on X
00:28:29
saying the two companies futures are intertwined. They've already been intertwined, by the way. They're using X data and and this technology for Grock,
00:28:38
uh, which is their product. This officially combines the data, models, compute, and distribution of talent. It
00:28:43
officially does, but it's already been combined, by the way, everybody. The all stock deal valued exit uh XAI at $80
00:28:49
billion and X at 33 billion. That I don't think that takes into account the debt, but I'm not sure. There's a big
00:28:55
debt thing on there. The price is down from $44 billion Elon paid in 2022, but
00:29:00
it's higher than a recent $12 billion valuation. I think this is all made up because I think I don't the company has
00:29:06
never been a particularly good business. Um, and all it does is it hides it now. It hides it completely within this um
00:29:13
within this AI uh boomlet. And even X AI probably shouldn't be worth $80 billion.
00:29:19
Doesn't make anything. It doesn't make any money. It makes a lot of noise. And so not and he's not alone in this. All the other AI companies are are high. But
00:29:27
it's just a he's just putting money from one pocket into the other. and he may and it just looks good because what he's
00:29:33
doing is attaching I wouldn't be surprised if he brings Tesla in on this too and merges it into Tesla and then
00:29:39
completes the completes the picture to bring Tesla shares up giving it an AI value essentially. That's what that's
00:29:45
why he's doing it. You think it gives it like this fake phony u boost until it's
00:29:51
not right. Someone's going to cut get ahead in AI and so why not just fold them together and then you don't
00:29:57
understand the actual businesses themselves. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the interesting thing about it,
00:30:04
reading the stories about this made me think about the early days after the purchase when um one I think it would
00:30:10
did it happen in the spring of like two years ago. When did this happen? Am I remembering this correctly? This is relevant only because um at the
00:30:18
correspondence dinner which I still attend many years later. Um we're going to talk about that next. Yes. But um I
00:30:24
sat next to Linda Yakarino who was still at NBC at the time and I was like she's she's nice. She's fun and interesting. I
00:30:31
remember now you're gonna be like, you're naive, but like you're naive. And I was like, oh, she's very engaging. Um,
00:30:37
and then like a week later, you know what I used to call her when she got the job? And well, go ahead. Go ahead. Finish your No, no, no. I want to know.
00:30:42
I mean, and I and then like a week later, she went to Twitter or or X or whatever they were still called at that
00:30:47
time. And I was like, wow, I I kind of misread of that whole situation. That
00:30:53
was a real reflection moment. But you remember the early days when it was like, "Thank you for being a source of
00:30:59
where I could share my thoughts and I know you're going to disappear and there was this kind of fear of um, you know,
00:31:06
of of your followers going away." I mean, I've had I've I've decreased followers, of course, as anybody who is
00:31:12
not a right-winger has done for the most part the last couple years. But, you know, at the time I had like 1.4 four
00:31:17
million followers and I'm like, well, man, I want to see what this happens, but this is this is like I've built up a
00:31:23
following now and now it's just like, no, no, now I'm saying this is how I felt a couple years ago. Now it's just
00:31:28
like a dumpster fire of of hellish. Are you on there still, Jen? Are you still on there? You need to go. I haven't
00:31:34
deleted my account, but I really Neither have I because I don't want Lindy Yakarina to do something funny with it.
00:31:39
That's really pretty. Oh, that's fair. I So, I don't engage on it. Um I But I
00:31:44
still have an account. You still have an account? That's That's probably the best way. And lots of insane fake accounts I'll have to do something about at some
00:31:50
point, but I you know, whatever. Do you just or I don't I don't really care. Um yeah, she got mad at me cuz I called her
00:31:57
that nice ad lady from Queens. Um but um because I don't think she has any technological experience and is just
00:32:03
there for window dressing for Elon. Now she presumably will disappear into whatever this is. I I'd be shocked.
00:32:08
Maybe he'll make her CEO, but she'll be CEO aso CEO. That's what she wanted right at the time, wasn't that? No, I
00:32:14
think she really thought she was in there with them shoulderto-shoulder. I think that it's like not true, but whatever. Um, who knows? I don't really
00:32:21
care what happens to her career, honestly. I could care less. But one of the things Hard same. I met her once.
00:32:26
Yeah, exactly. Well, you missed it. You missed it. She's quite conservative. Just you miss that part. She She's quite
00:32:32
clearly clearly she always was. If you spent enough time with her, you're like, "What?" And you'd be like, "I'm going to
00:32:37
go now." Um, I remember that we were when she was at NBC, she said something sort of rightwing. I'm like, "You know what? My mother annoys me enough. if I
00:32:43
don't need you on top of it. Like that's how I felt. I need to limit the number of rightwing people on a regular basis.
00:32:50
Thank you. Let's move along. So um so one of the things about this purchases it will just it's just a way to create
00:32:56
to get the benefit of an AI valuation and and pretend that Twitter is an
00:33:01
actual business when it is at best a middling advertising business that she's never going to transform because it
00:33:08
missed the boat many many many moons ago to Facebook and Meta. So whatever. Good luck with this, Elon. We'll see. Um, it
00:33:15
does what? Here, here's what it does. I'll make one more point. It doesn't improve the product. Like, nothing in
00:33:20
this is about the products of either of these things and what they're going to sell to consumers, how they're going to make money. It's all about the financial
00:33:26
transaction. And to me, that's a big red flag. But did he ever care about the product? No, he does. That's not true.
00:33:31
No, I think Tesla, the original Tesla No, no, no. About Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. Yes. I think he product. I
00:33:38
think he did initially and then doesn't care now. Um he's using it as a cudgel is what he's doing it. All right, Jen,
00:33:43
let's go on a quick break. When we come back, Trump is on a pardon spree. Jen, we're back. President Trump commuted the
00:33:49
fraud uh criminal fraud sentence of Aussie media founder Carlos Watson just hours for Watson was due in prison. The
00:33:55
company falsely claimed to have deals with Google and Oprah Winfrey and would have owned fines over $90 million.
00:34:01
Watson is convicted of conspiracy to commit securities and wire fraud, which he did, and identity theft, which he did, and was sentenced to 10 years.
00:34:07
Trump also pardoned Trevor Milton, the founder of electric truck maker uh Nicola uh who was convicted of
00:34:13
misleading investors. Same pattern. Milton was represented by Brad Bondi uh brother of AG Pam Bondi in a securities
00:34:21
fraud trial. Um do you think Trump will be the latest investor in the fire festival too? The way this is going I
00:34:28
just do do presidents usually do this in the middle of a term. No. No. I mean,
00:34:35
wait. Also, I mean, it's like at the end, right? Right. And also, I mean, these two thematic fraudsters, it's it
00:34:42
feels also to me, um, it's like the Eric Adams thing in the sense that Oh, yeah.
00:34:47
Him, too. It's a little mobby, right? Because it's like Carlos Watson, who I've met a couple times. I don't know
00:34:54
well or anything, but like Did you like him too? I'm kidding. No. He was around Democratic circles. He was around
00:35:00
Democratic circles is my point, right? Yeah. So you're like and Eric Adams was a I don't know I think he still
00:35:06
considers himself a who knows but like it these they now feel kind of an obligation to Trump right I mean some
00:35:13
version of it of course they do so that's what reminds me of a Mobby Mobby's thing the other thing about this
00:35:18
Milton um uh pardon he Trump said I one of my biggest pet peeves is when people
00:35:24
talk about themselves in the third person which Trump is not the only one who does this but he does it a lot where
00:35:29
he said the thing he did wrong was he supported a gentleman uh named Trump,
00:35:35
right? That was Trump talking about pardon. And it's like I don't know the guy well, but he supported me. It's like
00:35:41
he gets pulled into these fraudsters who he wants to validate
00:35:47
because I think it validates him. That's what it feels like it's about. But yeah, know you don't norally do it in the middle. Is this if if you if you were
00:35:54
working for Biden right now and he suddenly started doing this, what would you run into the Oval Office and say, "What in the actual fuck?" or what what
00:36:00
was the phrase? Yes. I mean, you know, it's like, yes, because in a normal case
00:36:06
though, here's the thing. Trump knows. There's so much [ __ ] flying out there that like we're talking about this,
00:36:12
you're talking about this. Is everybody going to talk about this? No. Mhm. Cuz there's so many other things going on.
00:36:17
So, it can be kind of buried in the burying of all, you know, which is why he does things like say he's going to
00:36:23
run for a third term, right? It's like he wants to We're not even talking. I'm saying he's doing it so because he wants to change subject. He wants to talk
00:36:29
about it. So, yes. What's he changing the subject from? I think he Well, a
00:36:36
couple things. Signal Kate, uh, which I don't I'm not saying this is going to be a political problem for him forever, but
00:36:41
hey, there have been a few polls and people hate it, including Republicans, and he knows it's it makes him look kind
00:36:47
of weak in the national security world. Um, elections, special elections
00:36:53
tomorrow. Who knows what will happen? Maybe they'll win all three, but like it's it's even if Josh While loses by
00:36:59
five points, that's not it's not great for Trump, right? That's a little bit of sign of political weakness. It was
00:37:05
Michael Waltz's seat. Um maybe some of the tax, you know, who knows? I think
00:37:10
there's just like he'd like to talk about there's still again I know I keep talking about this but like a bunch of
00:37:15
his adviserss including his commerce secretary keeps talking about social security in ways that are like hugely problematic for like anyone who reads a
00:37:22
poll ever. So yeah, it's changing the subject from a lot of other things. Yeah, that's true. That is true. That's
00:37:29
exactly what he's doing. It's not He's doing a good job at it, though. The White House Correspondents Association has canled comedian Amber Bruffin's
00:37:34
scheduled appearance at his annual dinner. WHDA president Eugene Daniels said in a statement that the organization decided not to have a
00:37:41
comedian to ensure the focus is not on the politics of division. Previously had said that he thought it was great to
00:37:47
have someone who was edgy. So Eugene not cool. Um he did say he was supporting
00:37:54
her when he signed her. The cancellation came a day after the White House chief of staff uh Taylor Budawich, may I
00:38:00
pronounce that correctly, slammed Ruffin on X. She shared a clip from a recent appearance on the Daily Beast podcast
00:38:05
where she referred to Trump administration as kind of a bunch of murderers. She's a comic. Gorin also
00:38:11
revealed the guidance she got from the correspondence association in that podcast interview. Let's listen. They were like, you need to be, you know,
00:38:18
equal and make sure that the that you give it to both sides and blah blah
00:38:24
blah. I was like, there's no way I'm going to be freaking doing that, dude. So, as someone who attended the dinner,
00:38:30
you've been at some of the more controversial ones, both as a member of the White House press team and a member of the media. What did you think about
00:38:35
this? It's not clear if Trump is planning on attending the dinner. He has in the past and the press secretary Carolyn Levit has already said she's not
00:38:42
going. The White House correspondents seem to be giving they're also deciding where everybody sits, right? They were
00:38:47
going to have the president now decide where they sit and they could push the main media out of the front seats.
00:38:53
They've already also knocked AP out. There's all kinds of things. When you look at this, you didn't do much with
00:38:58
the White House correspondents. They just ran their own show, right? Correct. Yeah. Also, like you don't have to agree
00:39:05
to what they say, you know, and they don't respond to what you want either. I
00:39:10
mean, the whole point is is that I think this is such a sign of kind of weak
00:39:15
obedience. Um, from and I will say I mean, I know I know Eugene pretty well.
00:39:21
He seems to me a little bit I haven't talked to him about this. Um in the statement he said uh unanimous decision.
00:39:29
I would not be surprised if he was quite pressured to do this by um the White
00:39:35
House correspondent association is made up of representatives from kind of every network every wire service by outlets
00:39:41
who feel under greater pressure than I think he would personally but it's not his personal choice.
00:39:46
Um I think it is a it is a scholarship dinner. Yes, that is true. But what
00:39:54
you're doing here that the there's a comedian at almost all of these dinners, right? The comedian typically even when
00:40:01
there's a there's a a president with less fodder than Trump spends most of their time making fun of the sitting
00:40:06
president because that's the whole point. There's plenty of easy fodder about Democrats right now. I mean, Chuck
00:40:12
Schumer, hello. You there's a few jokes about you and a couple of other people, right? But what this is doing is this is
00:40:19
agreeing to the terms he wants at a dinner that the is supposed to be about preserving the value of the freedom and
00:40:26
independence of the press. It is you are speech and speech and you are obeying in
00:40:32
advance about something so stupid, you know. Um yeah, that's the thing is so stupid. I've never been happy about that
00:40:38
dinner. I have to tell you, I've always felt it was too jacular. I thought it was too like hanging out with your
00:40:44
sources and I was I wasn't a political reporter but I was like oof this is a little awkward. When you were dealing
00:40:50
though with the White House correspondents they decided where to sit right where everybody sits in the
00:40:55
briefing room in the briefing room and that they're going to now the Trump administration is taking control of that. They took control of who could be
00:41:01
there and they knocked AP out for not saying Gulf of America uh and saying Gulf of Mexico. Again, it's a matter of
00:41:08
free speech as Julia Pace has said, who runs the um who runs AP. Did you ever
00:41:14
imagine pushing these that you could push these people around like this? Because it certainly looks like it was possible for you to do that. What was
00:41:20
your relationship? And we you would kind of, you know, they would do sternly worded letters and you would ignore
00:41:25
them, you know? I mean, it's not I think it's sort of a bit of an outdated system in some ways. Um in many ways, um the
00:41:33
the the idea of it is a good idea, right? right? It just needs to be modernized, which is like a bunch of
00:41:39
reporters who cover the White House speaking as a group about issues and not as individual organizations. And that's
00:41:45
a good thing. Um, but you know, it's what they choose to fight about. And when I was there, sometimes they would
00:41:51
write these sternly worded letters about like we need a formal press conference in the East Wing. And you're like,
00:41:57
really? That's what you're going to write your sternly worded letter about? Like, and you ignored it? You just I mean, you're going to do one or you're
00:42:02
not? I don't, you know, it's it's like um I'm seeing your face going, "Oh god, this stupid." But here's but the other
00:42:08
thing is that you also work with the White House Correspondents Association on a variety of things that can be
00:42:14
useful like the president's going to a war zone. You can't announce that in advance. We need a small pool of
00:42:21
reporters on the plane to travel with the president and you work with them on
00:42:26
that. You work with them on planning foreign trips to making sure and fighting for access and things like that. So there are a lot of constructive
00:42:33
reasons for having an organization that you can kind of work with as a representation, but I think some of this
00:42:38
stuff it's just it's like a So why shouldn't they just So one of the ideas is they band together and they just leave the room like and then it's left
00:42:44
to like the I don't know Newsmax people like whatever. Is that a bad thing? Like
00:42:50
just like you know what we're because by staying there you give it credibility this nonsense or do you have to just
00:42:56
live by the rules? They've decided now live in their oxygen universe. Is there any possibility? They won't do this
00:43:01
because corporate media won't do it, but is there any choice here but to to dance
00:43:07
to his tune? Well, I think it would be a mistake for them to leave the room. Um
00:43:12
because I think they leave the room. Hard to explain to the public why that
00:43:18
all these organizations who are giving them any information from inside the White House are all biased toward Trump, right? So, they are this is not their
00:43:26
responsibility. Oh, maybe it is part of their responsibility, but they're they're playing a public service role by
00:43:32
still being there. I think um and by being present in the room um like many
00:43:37
things, even if they're not asked questions even if they can't they don't have any access. Well, they ask questions in the briefing, right? Um you
00:43:45
know, the briefing and the outdated nature of that is another topic. Um yes. Yeah, I agree. you know they the the
00:43:52
nature of the pool is like that's this there's no precedent
00:43:58
for this right so there's no just like many things Trump does it's almost like the playbook the system is not prepared
00:44:04
to respond to it so this is a moment for I think them as and as an association or as media outlets to decide how are we
00:44:12
going to respond maybe Trump's not the last version of this right I think you should plan for him not being the last version of this um and what does that
00:44:19
look like cuz right now there Well, you just said very quickly like that's another topic. You shouldn't have
00:44:24
briefings. I think they're stupid. No, no, no, no, no. You should have briefings, but I absolutely um for a
00:44:30
number of reasons. I mean, one of them is it's um I mean, freedom of press,
00:44:35
having the freedom of press there, that sends a message to the world. You can't go into other countries and be like, freedom of press, talk to real
00:44:41
reporters, and then not do it yourself. It's it's also pushes the system internally to get answers. Um it's very
00:44:48
efficient. um all of those things. What I mean is there are um there are ways
00:44:54
that the the you know in the briefing room it's a little different now but in the briefing room still it's dominated
00:44:59
by a handful of outlets and a handful of outlets are not what the majority of the
00:45:04
public assumes. Um and so there are some outdated aspects of it and if you don't
00:45:10
have a scene in the sort of like when she was like let's let in others I'm like yeah let's let it I want to go.
00:45:16
So those things the thing the problem is those things are good things like Sean Spicer did a lot of crazy things. I can
00:45:23
only think of Melissa McCarthy but he did have a screen where he had regional reporters at times. I think that's a
00:45:28
good thing. There are things that need to be modernized about that. But I but I what they've done now is they've
00:45:35
essentially let in half staterun media to kind of be the dominant sources of
00:45:40
information in the pool. And that's a problem. Well, why wouldn't they do that? I mean, to me, being angry about
00:45:45
it is sort of like, "Oh, can you Someone was like, can you believe they did that?" I'm like, "Yeah, I can believe it." Once again, I can believe that they
00:45:52
would put staterun media in there. Why wouldn't they? They That's good for them. Like, they'll do whatever is good for them. I don't know if we have any
00:45:59
choice in there. I honestly believe Yes. And and historically, Democratic and
00:46:04
Republican presidents have not done that. You There's all sorts of things to criticize about every administration in terms of the ones, including the ones I
00:46:10
worked in, about how they dealt with the press. I'm not suggesting that, but there were briefings done. There was
00:46:18
there was a most of the time um accurate information. Um there wasn't intentional
00:46:25
misleading most of the time. There are exceptions, right? This is a whole different thing. And the system and the
00:46:32
press corps is not prepared for it. Well, Trump is innovative. If anything, some way innovative in a very terrible
00:46:38
way. I guess you could call it that. Call it that. Yeah. Anyway, um let me ask you one more question because you were there. How would you have changed
00:46:44
it if you were still there if you were not working for Trump but a Democratic? What would you have taken from what
00:46:50
they've done here and said, "Okay, good idea. This not so much." Oh, I wouldn't. How would you modernize it? Give me two
00:46:55
things. Sure. Um I would have done actually truthfully if if Hillary Clinton had won, I was the
00:47:01
communications director for Obama, we would have recommended they change the briefing. Um and when I came in and I'll
00:47:06
come back to that in a second when I came in and I was Biden's uh press secretary four years later because we
00:47:13
were following four years of them yelling at reporters and demonizing the media and not doing regular briefings.
00:47:19
we felt like we had to return to some sort of normaly to send the message, right? Um but if if it had been Hillary
00:47:26
Clinton, I would have said do two or three briefings a a week. Um include um
00:47:33
some sort of rotation of regional reporters or other outlets either in the
00:47:38
room or on a screen. You can easily answer questions to people who are on a screen. Um, the other days maybe do them
00:47:44
off camera because people can still get information, but there's something very performative. I realize I'm currently
00:47:51
I'm a host of a TV show, but like there's something very performative about the room of the television. You
00:47:57
and Juicy. Yeah, we got I mean, but you know, yes, you have to you can do that. Give people the clips they want and
00:48:02
whatever, but like two days do a g what's called we call it a gaggle. You do them on planes um at the state
00:48:09
department office but you're in well it's hard because there's too many people usually but like yes and back in the day you used to do gag goggles in
00:48:15
your office people still ask tough questions you still have to answer them it's not as performative and it's not as
00:48:21
constructive to ask the question 17 times because somebody's already asked the question. Those are a couple of the
00:48:27
things I would do. Those are Yeah, I agree with you. The screens you could have people in from across the country.
00:48:32
Yeah. Anyway, um one more quick break and we'll be back for wins and fails.
00:48:37
Okay, Jen, let's hear some wins and fails. I'll go first. My uh fail of the week are these continuing attacks on um
00:48:46
on these these students at colleges. They should be able to say what they want anytime they want and and even
00:48:52
criticize the United States and things. I don't even agree with some of them. Um and um and I really uh find it a fail
00:48:59
that that people are not more upset about this that students just because of things they say. Same thing with Elon
00:49:04
Musk's attacks on people who don't like Teslas. If you don't like a Tesla, you should be able to say you don't like a Tesla. If you don't like Elon Musk, you
00:49:10
should be able to say you don't like Elon Musk. And he shouldn't have to spin a conspiracy theory about it because
00:49:16
he's sad. And one of the things that I I've always noticed about this group of people, as I've said on your show and
00:49:22
many other shows, every accusation is a confession with these people. Like everything they accuse people of,
00:49:27
they're doing themselves. And so I find it really um these are students that are here. We're supposed to be an open
00:49:33
society. If they want to dislike us, come here and dislike us. That's fine, too. That's fine, too. In fact, it makes us stronger. Makes us love our our
00:49:40
countries uh more uh our country more. Um, I think a a win is I'm going to I'm
00:49:46
going to give it to to uh Lisa Marowski um who is um they're doing actually both
00:49:52
Republican senators uh Dan Sullivan and the other and how to they're they're really doing different tactics to push
00:49:58
back on Trump. I would say I prefer Lisa Marowsky's efforts more. Um she's in a safer position now that she's shown
00:50:05
she's got the she's got the grit to stay stick in there and she has the political capital to to do that. But I do think
00:50:11
there should be more. You see po Senator Langford doing the same thing and calling for a look into signal gates. It
00:50:18
would be really nice to see more of these um Republican senators find their set. And of course it's a woman who's
00:50:24
doing it first. Um, and I do think that's um that's a real that's something to look up to and we should praise that
00:50:30
those efforts when they're done by the Republican party because I do think it's as much as we talk about the lack of um
00:50:36
spine for the Republicans, I think it's super super hard to be in that situation
00:50:43
if you want to have a role in um uh in government. And I'm going to add in a
00:50:48
last one from international Marie Le Pen barred from the presidential run after embezzlement ruling is really something.
00:50:54
It shows there are um there are con now there are other leaders now who have taken her place so it's not going to
00:51:00
really slow them down. Um but I do think that just shows that other countries know how to handle problems of their of
00:51:07
their of their elected officials and are much more fair about it. Of course there's going to be a whole conspiracy
00:51:12
theory around her but uh nonetheless I thought that was something surprising for me. I didn't even know that was
00:51:18
coming. So I didn't at all and Marine Le Pen. Um yeah. Okay, wins. I'm gonna say
00:51:26
um as much as I've said repeatedly that there are not enough Democrats out there and more need to be out there, I am
00:51:32
delighted by the reemergence of Tim Walls um who I think was like locked in a closet somewhere during the 2024 or
00:51:39
most of the election um after he became the running mate. Um he kind of I love
00:51:45
his um imperfect rough around the edges answers to things. He had this amazing
00:51:50
moment where he a couple days ago where he talked about the benefits of the department of education and what it
00:51:56
actually does for people. He was asked a question about a title one by a student at a title one school. I think this is
00:52:02
one of those bureaucratic things most people don't know how to talk about and I think mo a lot of parents would actually care if they knew. Um I loved
00:52:09
that. I love the reemergence of him. The I'm going to give a tie. the other person that I have I didn't I knew who
00:52:15
he was but I didn't really pay attention to what he had to say but I feel like has become this emerging great speaker
00:52:23
and voice in the Democratic party is Greg Khazar who is the I don't know this explain he is the chairman of the
00:52:30
progressive caucus um but he is a person who speaks in plain English about how
00:52:37
things impact people um and I've had him on the show a couple times he's been at a couple of these rallies. It's always
00:52:44
exciting when you see people you didn't really know before and you're like that person makes sense. Um so that's
00:52:50
exciting to me. Um I'm going to say my loss I'm just going to stay in the political space. Um in the blueprint
00:52:56
theme since nobody knows what the blueprint is. I'm going to tell you. Um I have been consistently disappointed
00:53:02
with Chuck Schumer which I have openly talked about. Me too. I think we can um
00:53:08
move on from the debacle of the funding debate or funding agreement for for a
00:53:13
moment. But here's what is disappointing. It doesn't seem clear that any lessons have been learned
00:53:18
because the Democrats have been on recess. There is a debate coming up about extending high-end tax cuts, which
00:53:26
will happen in all likelihood. But this is a this is a winning issue. It could be something you could equip people to
00:53:32
go out to districts and hold town halls and meetings and be aligned. I'm obsessed with social security and how
00:53:38
this is something that some Democrats have effectively talked about. But the fact is you have the commerce secretary
00:53:44
saying his mother his mother-in-law was it his mother-in-law? Oh, whatever. He's such a wouldn't care. No, he said, did
00:53:50
you see this? Wouldn't care wouldn't care if she if her social security check got a week late. That's because her
00:53:55
son's a billionaire. You right. Also, like that should be in ads everywhere. like I know about it, but why isn't it
00:54:02
everywhere? So, I'm not putting all the blame on him, but he's a Democratic leader. We can move on from the funding
00:54:07
debate. Let's learn some lessons. Yeah, I would agree. I would get I would doubt him. I think he should. Just so you
00:54:14
know, for people who don't know, Representative uh Khazar is from Austin, obviously. He he also includes Elon
00:54:21
Musk's largest factory. Um and he is terrific. Um he's really terrific and he's been attacking Musk among others.
00:54:28
And before Musk became Musk, he had a little tangle with him. Yeah, he did. And he's also saying, "Let's stop with purity tests and stop being so he's very
00:54:35
he's got the right message." And it's really interesting. And it's an interesting place he's from because he's from Texas. Although Austin is not
00:54:40
really Texas, is it? Um, in any case, those are good ones. See, that wasn't hard. See, you did. No. And you have
00:54:46
succeeded. You have still not told a dirty joke. But let me have a comic come on and talk a little bit. We want to
00:54:51
hear from you. Send us your questions about business, tech, or whatever's on your mind. can go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call
00:54:58
85551 pivot. Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, I talked to comedian Michelle Bau on on with Cara Swisser.
00:55:04
This week, let's listen to a clip. I am not working from a place of fear. [ __ ] that. No. If No. No. Edit yourself. No.
00:55:13
No. So many people edit themselves and they do what they think they should be
00:55:19
doing and then they beat themselves up when it doesn't go through. when it doesn't get a second season or get green
00:55:26
lit and it's just like no, I need to sleep at night and if I'm not doing what
00:55:32
I know I need to do, what my intuition tells me I need to do and I'm not going to sleep. So, no, working from a place
00:55:38
of fear is if you're an artist, like get over that [ __ ] real quick. Anyway, she was great. She's I think comics are
00:55:44
doing some of the most interesting work right now, don't you? Like I have a comic on every eight weeks at least. Uh
00:55:50
because I think there are some of the smartest people talking about politics right now and have fearlessness. Yes, we
00:55:56
do too. We like to have comics on as well because I think they can talk about things happening in a way that breaks
00:56:02
through and is um is real. As she said, it's a little bit more fearless because
00:56:07
you want to be funny. Right. Right. I'm going to try to get um uh Amber Ruffin to come on and do her set. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:14
So, no jokes from you then. No jokes from you. All right. I'll I'll I'll do one. Why do melons have weddings? Why?
00:56:21
They can't alope. Okay. Okay. All right. One more. Here's a
00:56:27
dirtier one. Okay. Dirty. That wasn't even a dirty joke. All right. Let me do a a penis one then. Why did the sperm
00:56:32
Why did the sperm cross the road? Because I put on the wrong sock this morning. Okay. Oh, but I don't even know
00:56:39
what that means, but my son. We're here for it. Someone's going to write someone's gonna write you and give their
00:56:44
analysis. I love it. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I need an older son to give me dirty jokes. That's true. Okay, that's
00:56:49
the show. Thank you so much, Jen. Jen is the host of MSNBC's Inside with Jen Saki. Sundays at 12:00 p.m. ET and
00:56:56
Mondays at 8:00 p.m. ET. Come this spring, she'll be making the move to MSNBC's prime time as a host of the 9:00
00:57:02
p.m. ET hour, Tuesdays through Fridays. So, Jen Saki everywhere, including her podcast, The Blueprint. You're
00:57:09
everywhere, Cara. Well, I don't I'm not on five nights a week on prime time. Anyway, um thanks. I knew you'd be good
00:57:15
at this and you are indeed. Um, thanks for listening to Pivot. Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
00:57:20
We'll be back on Friday. I will read us out, but thank you, Jen, so much. Thank you. Great to be with you. Today's show
00:57:26
is produced by Larara Neon, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Enderdott engineered this episode. Julian Ardited
00:57:33
the video. Nishad Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to wherever you listen to
00:57:38
podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at
00:57:44
nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this week for another guest host. I'm not saying who it is. And another breakdown
00:57:50
of all things tech and business. But Jen, again, thank you so much. Thank you. Next guest host better bring dirty
00:57:55
jokes. Give up. They will.
