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Mr. Shranksk's name has been in the news
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for some 40 years as a Soviet dissident,
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a leading Israeli politician, uh,
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recipient of the Congressional Gold
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Medal and the Presidential Medal of
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Freedom. In the 1970s, he was a noted
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human rights activist in the Soviet
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Union and founder of the refusnic
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movement at a time when that might
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result in a heavy prison sentence in the
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gulag or worse. And in fact, it did lead
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to the gulag for Mr. Sheransky. He spent
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nine years there, much of it, half of it
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I understand, in solitary confinement.
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Uh he had been sentenced to 13 years I
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believe but um the term was shortened by
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President Reagan who uh pressed Maul
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Gorbachev for an early release. U Mr.
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Sheransky also was a chess prodigy as a
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child something that helped him to
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survive prison where he played chess in
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his head against himself um while he was
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in solitary. Uh and chess is another
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reason for Mr. Shansk's notoriety. In
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1996, he beat Gary Kasparov, who was
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then the world chess champion. Mr.
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Shansky also has been in the Israeli
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Knesset and has held a number of top
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ministry positions there uh in Israel.
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He's been a deputy prime minister and
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also minister of industry and trade and
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minister of internal affairs. Uh thank
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you for joining us today. Thank you. Um,
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you were a child prodigy at chess and
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I'm wondering are are chess prodigies
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usually quiet and
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introspective people and if that's true
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how did you overcome that to become an
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outspoken dissident in the Soviet Union?
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Oh I think I was very ambitious person.
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So at the age of five six seven I wanted
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to be number one in the world in chess.
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But when it became clear to me that I
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cannot be number one. So I moved to
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math. Then when it became clear that I
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cannot be number one in math, I was
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looking where I can be and decided I can
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be great political prisoner. That's how
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I finished it in in political prison. Uh
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that's an unusual career path for for
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anyone. Um so you didn't have to push
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against your nature to become uh
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outspoken and and seek some attention
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then.
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Um, for the benefit of younger viewers,
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what did it mean to be a refusnic in
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Moscow in the 1970s?
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Now, uh, look, uh, I was a loyal Soviet
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citizen until the age of 20. What means
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what means to be a loyal Soviet citizen?
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It means to say what you are supposed to
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say, to read what you are permitted to
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read, to vote the way you are told to
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vote. at the same time to know that all
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this is a lie that in fact the reality
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is different but the reality you can
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discuss only with your friends and in
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the family so the moment I felt enough
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strength to speak truth to the power and
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say that I really don't want to belong
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to this system I want to go to Israel I
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want to live as a proud Jew I I want to
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enjoy human
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rights it meant that uh you cross a line
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between double sync and descent. So, uh
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you'll be fired from a job, you there'll
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be searches in your apartment, you'll be
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called for interrogations and the you'll
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be threatened to be arrested. They uh
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many of your friends will ask you to
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take their name from your notebook, from
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your telephone book because they don't
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want to be interrogated themselves. But
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at the same time you start living as a
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free person. You really say what things
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that you believe in. So I enjoyed having
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the life of refusnic and human rights
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activists and uh that what gave me
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strength to speak for my rights for
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rights of other Jews and then for rights
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of many others of everybody. You must
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have known what you were risking of
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course that it could lead to prison.
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Well, they they
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they were very busy in explaining me
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that I'll be arrested and when I was
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arrested very busy explaining me that
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I'll be sentenced to death if I will not
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cooperate with them. But I had to
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explain first of all to myself that my
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aim should not be physical survival
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because if my aim is physical survival
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then KGB will defeat me. They will
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destroy me. They they'll know how to use
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it. My aim should be how to remain free
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P person even when you are in prison.
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And the moment you change the aim, they
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have one game with the one set of aims
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and you have another game. They want you
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to convince you that physical survival
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that the only value in life and you
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believe that the real value is how to be
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a free person. So that's the difference.
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So you did end up in prison I guess. Um
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they accused you of treason spying for
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the United States I think. Um and you
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were there for nine years about half the
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time in solitary. Uh a lot of people say
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extended solitary is really a form of
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torture. Um and uh you were able to
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survive. How?
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Well
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uh uh first of all I was half of the
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time in solitary confinement but
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solitary confinement is not a torture by
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itself. Punishing cell in which I spent
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year and a half that is real torture by
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hunger by cold by darkness by being able
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to do nothing. So you have first of all
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you have to explain to yourself to
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remind yourself why you're there to feel
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yourself in the middle of historical
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struggle and to feel yourself mobilized
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but second you also have to know how to
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use your brains and I was really lucky I
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had this great hobby of chess and I
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loved playing chess blind simultaneously
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with some partners but it was only for
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hobby now I knew why I need
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I was
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playing hundreds and thousands of games
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in my head. I won all of them. I felt
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myself very strengthened intellectually.
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So while they were expecting me to uh
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that even the passing of the time in
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punchel will be destroying my me in fact
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I succeeded to strengthen myself.
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And when you when you were released and
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you moved to Israel immediately, how
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looking back at that point, how do you
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felt? How do you feel that it changed
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you and your view of the world of
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yourself?
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You mean the Yes. that I wasn't? Yes.
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Once you were out? Well, first of all,
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once I'm out, uh I enjoy continuing to
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live as a free person. And those who
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think that it is easier to live as a
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free
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person in our world than in prison,
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they're wrong to to in the free world
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where there suddenly there are thousands
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of
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choices. Uh you can waste all your life
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on making different choices and losing
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the perspective, losing the aim. There
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you had very clear aim and very clear
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understanding where what is good and
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what is bad and where are enemies and
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where are friends. So it makes your life
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in fact very easy and very clear and and
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with one strategy in our daily life we
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have thousands
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of possible strategies to choose the the
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one which gives you a lot of meaning in
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your life. It's not so simple but but I
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enjoy to continue the life of free
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person. Yeah. So when you got what you
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actually wanted which was being a free
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person it was a little bit overwhelming.
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Yeah. Yeah. Well I had it was very
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dramatic. In one day I was taken from
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Soviet prison put to the airplane
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brought to Germany crossed the bridge
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met uh my wife whom I didn't see for 12
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years came to Israel and at night
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together with all the people of Israel
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celebrating my release. So I do know
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what it is to go straight from hell to
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paradise.
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In many ways, you've been a visionary
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throughout your life. You you perhaps
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saw there was an opening for for what
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you did in in the Soviet Union to get
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some kind of a reaction. It got a lot of
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international reaction at the time. I
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mean, you paid a heavy price, but it did
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uh it did get the word out. It did have
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an effect.
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Um do you feel that you always had those
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innate leadership qualities? Um or did
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you have to learn or teach yourself
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those
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things along the way? No. Look,
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if if I knew in advance that what I'm
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doing will bring me to prison to 9 years
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in prison to 12 years separation from my
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wife to the station where for years you
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will not know whether you will stay
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alive or not. I'm not sure that they
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would start it. It is good that you
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don't know in advance about everything
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what will happen in your life and you
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are learning and you are building
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yourself and you are strengthening while
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going through this. So did they know
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from the very beginning that I'll be the
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leader? No, I didn't know. But on every
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with every step I felt more and more
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determined to to
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to keep my freedom to remain free person
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and uh uh to defeat or to fight against
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those who are trying to uh restrict this
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freedom for me and for the other people.
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So I I think leadership is something
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that you are developing in the process
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and not something that you're born with
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it. When you look around today at um
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today's leaders in business or in
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government, there's a lot of ethical
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lapses uh that we've seen across the
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board. Um what what do you think is the
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most overlooked quality about leadership
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today in business or in politics? In
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other words, um what leadership
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qualities are most lacking in general in
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your opinion?
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uh well first of
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all very basic and simple
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understanding that moral behavior is the
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most profitable behavior and I think
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it's American idea I think all the uh
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American philosophy Franklin's
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philosophy in fact the founder of this
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place started from this that it
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is good it is profitable
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uh to be moral person I think somehow
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it's ignored. It's forgotten. Definitely
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in the international relations that we
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can see how real politic considerations
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in in politics and business and
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everything are prevailing and that's
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unfortunate because in the end heavy
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price is paced for this. Now in terms of
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let's say it's to go from the level of
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morality simply
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to to the level of let's say of
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chess I think
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uh the the real talent in in every game
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in business game in political game in
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chess game is how to keep as many
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options as possible as long as possible.
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Some people think that the best chess
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player is the one who can think who can
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count moves longer for 10 moves ahead or
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12 moves ahead. In fact, the the real
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strong chess player is the one who knows
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how to keep as many opportunities as
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possible as long as possible because
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then uh you really your your opponent
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will be lost in the attempts to respond
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to all of them. Uh and that's something
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which I always find is ignored or
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forgotten or undermined by people in
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daily life. You're running an
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organization that's focused on Jewish
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immigration into Israel at the moment,
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uh, which surely has some business-like
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aspects to it. I know you spent many
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years in government in Israel. Um, and
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here at Wharton, there's a group that's
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just formed and it's called the public
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policy initiative. And basically um it
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wants to improve communications between
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business and uh and the uh policym world
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government. Um so since you understand
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those worlds uh a little bit better than
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most people um could you offer some
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advice for uh how businesses and
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government can work more closely
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together? We see um some big gaps in our
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country today. for example.
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Yeah. Well,
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uh in fact uh my view is very
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traditional for for
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Americans though I I come from communist
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country. So I think the less the
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government is involved in telling people
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what to do the better.
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uh and uh because of my Soviet
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background, I believe in it to the
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extreme. And in fact, I was lucky to be
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minister of industry trade in the first
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government of Benjamin Netanyahu when
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Israel
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was built as a very socialist country
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with very little opportunities to
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compete because it was the state built
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in the underground by Zionist socialists
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who came from the Russia in the
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beginning of the century. So they built
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it without thanks god without uh these
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ideas of communism but definitely in the
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way that the government is building
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business opportunities and uh we spent a
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lot of time uh in encouraging
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competition in I signed more free trade
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agreements with the outer world than all
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the previous ministers of industry trade
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together and I had a full support of
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prime minister because botangu does
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believe in free competition. At the same
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time I had to say with every free trade
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agreement which I was signing whether it
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is with Turkey or with Mexico or with
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any other country there were
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demonstrations in front of my house of
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the workers from the companies who feel
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that they threatened that now uh the
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production of glass will be in Turkey
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and not in Israel and production of
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textile will be in India and not here
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and so on and so on and to some extent
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they were right because their jobs we
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were in danger. But on the other hand,
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that what gave opportunity to Israel to
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uh to use its relative advantage and our
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relative advantage is the as we call it
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leadership,
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the very high level of
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integrity today has more startups than
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all the western Europe together. The
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small country has more startups,
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technological startups than all Western
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Europe. The only place in the world
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which can compete with Israel is Silicon
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Valley. But Silicon Valley is bringing
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uh brains from all the world. Uh so I
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believe that the role of government is
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to use the to to create good
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opportunities for the people to use uh
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their talents. But yes on the other hand
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if you go in this direction without
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looking around without thinking about
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the needs of the society here in
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American we in Israel suddenly find out
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big social gaps. So again there must be
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balanced approach and we have to keep
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many opportunities at the same time
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together. Thank you very much for coming
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to speak with us. Thank you.
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