00:00:00
I love that we're able to introduce people to episodes we've done before. And one of our favorites,
00:00:07
if you you're going to hear in a second, is Cheryl Crowe, right, David? Oh, yeah. Cheryl uh who's kind of a
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friend of the show. I knew her a little bit from uh being a huge fan and then we
00:00:18
had the same friend circle for a little bit. So, I saw her and uh she's also good friends with Courtney Cox and those
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girls and super fun. Uh super talented and I think she's on tour now with
00:00:29
Willie. I just saw on some fly. This is sounds very cool. Uh something I would definitely go to.
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Um but I've seen her played Irvine. Um we dig a little bit with her because we
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like to have musicians on sometime. I love music and Dana loves music and you're can play music
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and so more fun probably for you to dig into someone that knows what they're talking about.
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And she called us in uh from um Nashville. Yeah. So that was kind kind of cool. And uh
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there are some fun parts when you talk to a musician and a songwriter and a singer who can really do that and who
00:01:05
she thinks are the best people in history to have done that, you know, and so that's always fun to hear their take.
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And and we interviewed her on Zoom and she was like in a garage with maybe a hundred guitars guitars. I know.
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You remember that? Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. It was it was stunning looking. So anyway, enjoy this lovely lady, Cheryl Crowe.
00:01:28
It's been 3,000 years since I've seen either one of you. Hi, Cheryl. Weren't you at the 40th? You
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were at the 40th, weren't you? Yes, I was. I was. So, that's when we last saw each other.
00:01:39
When was that? 2016, I think. That was 40 years into
00:01:45
I know. It's It feels like Yeah. Cheryl Cheryl Crow is with us. I just
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like to say this. 32 Grammy nominations, nine wins, and 50 million albums there.
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Just to re-re everyone what the [ __ ] is going on right now. Yeah, sure. Let me put on my glasses so I can see
00:02:03
you. Okay. Yes, you both are looking very well. I'm sorry that your listeners can't see us visiting with each other
00:02:10
through our camera screens. I know. Even though this is all audio, I spent about 45 minutes on my chair and
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lighting and stuff. I don't know why. Oh, I I spackled my
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face back there. The hair is looking great. Oh, Dana. Look at you.
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Dana looks like he's in solitary confinement. People This room is empty of of void, but my
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son had all my son's models and little army men are in a plastic container and
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the laptop's on top of it. So, it's very nostalgic when I do this. A He's 28 now, but now
00:02:45
I know what Dana, what is that room that you're in that has no art on the wall? Nothing. Are you is it everything must
00:02:51
go personal? I have um sleep paralysis. So I have to sleep in an empty house
00:02:57
because they'll come for me. I have it. Yeah. Okay. I have sleep paralysis.
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How often? Um I have not had it in a while, but now for a long time I would have it uh
00:03:09
almost every night and I would have it periodically through the night. And what's weirder and I don't know if you
00:03:14
have this, I'm sure this is so interesting to your listeners. Do you ever have sleep paralysis on an airplane?
00:03:21
No, I can't sleep on an airplane because I'm too terrified no matter what. Even I I just watch the computer and check the
00:03:28
pilots. But so you go to sleep. I sleep like a damn baby on an airplane. Well, if you had any other The sleep
00:03:33
paralysis is basically uh you feel like something's attacking you invisibly in
00:03:38
the night or there's a weight on your chest. It's like a waking nightmare kind of.
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You can't wake yourself up and yet you think that you're awake. Like you you see people in the room moving and you're
00:03:50
trying desperately to get them to wake you up because you're you're paralyzed. Yes. You can't move. And the thing that
00:03:57
got me I was it's the first time Sanedra ranch in Monaceto whatever you know lifestyles
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rich and famous and just woke up or I was had that pressure on my chest like something was
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crawling on top of me and then I kind of went okay that was a dream used the
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restroom went back to bed felt I was as awake as I am right now and then came
00:04:20
back again. Yeah. But now I talk to it. It's never harmed me. I don't know if it's a spirit thing
00:04:26
or something. But Dana, then what did you do? I beat the [ __ ] out of it. No, you left, didn't you?
00:04:32
Well, I my wife is sound asleep, so I turned to her and said, "We have to go now. It's 3:00 in the morning. We have
00:04:38
to leave immediately." And uh she's a keeper. She's a keeper cuz she didn't even blink. She's like,
00:04:45
"Okay, okay, honey." Yeah, it's it's okay, honey. See, I thought it was just mostly in women. The women in
00:04:51
my family have it. My mom has managed through the years to figure out how to get my dad to wake her up and she does it by
00:04:58
singing. Oh, interesting. Well, you're in Nashville. Isn't that full of ghosts out there? That's kind of Isn't it full of
00:05:05
ghosts? Like old country singers and stuff. I mean, walking around. Civil War. Lots of Civil War ghosts in
00:05:12
Franklin. Oh, it's never a dull moment down here. And we live in the rainforest except for when Cheryl was in Guitar Center.
00:05:19
It does look like Guitar Center in here. She has 30 guitars behind her. Uh, Cheryl, I've been to Smashville and next
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time I go there, I'm going to make you come down to the Ryman and watch me bomb. I'm so mad that you've been here and not
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called me. I take it very personally. You know, the last time I saw you, but you lived um somewhere in the canyon, if
00:05:39
you had some beautiful house, it was like a couple of houses right next to Renion Canyon. Okay.
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And um I won't give you the address cuz somebody else that's kind of highrofile
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lives there now. However, that being said, I used to have wild parties at my
00:05:55
house. And I don't know if you remember this, and this I've only been thinking about it lately because
00:06:01
um of Salmon Rusty being in the news um not to mention we just played Shitakqua,
00:06:07
but so I'm sure you know what happened to Salon Rusty. So Mini Driver and I decided, this is years ago. I'm trying
00:06:14
to think of what year it would have been. Salmon's usually my plus one at parties. He is. He's He is It's He is
00:06:20
fascinating. Anyway, we said, "Let's have a New Year's Eve party together, and you can invite 40 people, and I'll
00:06:27
invite 40 people, and that was going to be it." And by about 11 at night, there must
00:06:34
have been 800 people in my house. And one of them was Salmon Rushy. And it was right after
00:06:40
his book had come out, and there was a bounty on his head. And I'm just like, really?
00:06:45
Is somebody get killed here tonight? What's happening? Oh, Miss Hollywood. Your your house was like a a bas was it
00:06:52
a bunch of little houses or am I crazy? Yeah, there was a um there was a big old Spanish house and then across the
00:06:59
driveway, which is the house I bought, and then right across the driveway on the same property were two other houses
00:07:06
that were really old. One was built in the 19 uh early 1900s and the other one
00:07:11
was built in 1887. And the guy who lived in those or who at
00:07:16
had those two properties and the 11 acres uh wound up selling it to me for
00:07:22
he just needed to get out and kept lowering the price and lowering the price and so I wound up with all three houses and it was just
00:07:28
compound magical. But once I adopted my boys I just didn't want to live in LA anymore.
00:07:34
Dana, I understand. Dana, uh, I knew Cheryl Suzanne Crowe a little bit because you know everybody his rolodex,
00:07:40
his metaphorical rolodex, we used to run around in the same and
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Oh, what was that peer group? Was it kind of like the little club? Courtney Courtney which Courtney Cox
00:07:53
Courtney Cox and uh Kid Rock was around. I was around with Kid Rock because of uh it was during the Joe Dirt times when I
00:07:59
saw Cheryl the most and uh and and uh we call him Bobby which I don't know it's kind of gross but we're always like
00:08:05
Bobby Bob. But uh Kid Rock is a buffoon and he's hilarious and um we would all
00:08:12
go out and then I would run into Cheryl with all those other people and she was always nice and she was always friendly
00:08:19
and obviously being a superstar but had a lot of fun. She has a great voice and
00:08:25
she has a great singing voice, but she has a great voice, too. I've heard it. And uh it was fun. I just watched your
00:08:30
whole documentary and uh so it's just weird to have you pop on right after cuz
00:08:35
I finished it this morning. Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. It's great. It's kind of a tearjerker for some reason. There's
00:08:41
I have it on in the background right now. I just glance at it. Glance. It's a It's It's never a dull moment.
00:08:47
It's brilliant. I mean, I put it up there with Top Gun. I put up there a Top Gun Maverick.
00:08:53
By the way, can we sing Top Gun's praises for 10 seconds? Did you see it? I did like Top Gun.
00:08:58
I don't know if I What? What? What? Cheryl shockingly good. Like my wife
00:09:05
both flipped for it. It's like Oh, the new one. Yes, the new one. It was so good. Here's how I'm going to connect it and
00:09:11
see if you guys connect to this. I connect it to Roman Holiday with Gregory
00:09:16
Peek and Audrey Heburn. Interesting. The reason is it's done a
00:09:22
lot, but they did it better than anyone else. You invest in the characters, invest in the story, and then there's
00:09:27
seven minutes of Hans Zimmerman soundtrack with kind of people hugging
00:09:33
each other and giving thumbs up. And that's the part that gets you. Anyway,
00:09:38
wow. Okay, I'm going to go back and watch it. I dragged my boys to see it cuz they had no no attachment to Top Gun
00:09:45
and I was see I was kind of skeptical but I'd heard how great it was and we loved it. I mean it was such a good
00:09:51
old-fashioned plot driven movie. Anyway, how old are the kids? My kids are 15 and 12.
00:09:58
Oh, right in the pocket there. Okay, that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah, they and they seriously don't
00:10:04
think I'm cool at all. It would be weird if they did. That'd be true. Oh my god, it's Cheryl Crow's
00:10:10
cooking me pancakes. Yeah, tell them to watch the documentary. They'll say how cool you are.
00:10:15
Do you think I should let them watch it? I don't know. You're It don't look at it from their eyes, but
00:10:21
it's so It shows how tough you are, how hard you bust your ass, how good you are. First of all, everyone that loves
00:10:28
is crazy about you. All these huge huge stars that rally around you and you're singing with every single one of them. I
00:10:35
knew you more like a skim job because when you watch the I used, you know, when I'd see you out, but we, you know,
00:10:42
I don't get into all that stuff and it's so uh I I I have so many more levels to uh your whole life and career I had no
00:10:49
idea about. No idea. Well, you know, I think most people and I'm sure you guys too, you guys have
00:10:54
stories that nobody knows anything about. Like I'm so interested person that's not, you know, that's not
00:11:01
covered in the tabloids and all that stuff. I find that everybody has a story. Everybody and way more than you
00:11:07
think. I I wouldn't release mine because no one would believe it. They would just laugh me out of the room. I don't know.
00:11:13
A tease. I'd like to know the story of Dana Carve. Uh yeah, when I come to Nashville and we
00:11:19
go around all the main street and we go in the bars, we see all the incredible bands. I'll tell you everything you want
00:11:25
to know. Uh so my new best friend is Cheryl Cro. I just want to make that announcement. And um
00:11:30
yeah, make it clear. So you're the the thing I got from the documentary which I
00:11:35
recommend to everybody because it's such a human story is how hard you worked and how driven you were and then how you
00:11:42
like most people well there's certain celebrities I know that are much easier with fame but how
00:11:48
you had a lovehate with that and would talk about that part of the your drive and yet why do I want this
00:11:54
and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean I I I still think fame is a weird it's a mind it's a real mind drip and and I didn't
00:12:02
really adjust to it very well. It for me instead of it being fun and something I could kind of navigate and manipulate
00:12:10
and use to sort of build my brand which was not the you know people didn't talk
00:12:16
about brand back then. I know. Instead, for me, it was pressure. You know, it was pressure and it was a
00:12:22
source of my um I mean, I've always looked at my life as, okay, how am I going to [ __ ] this up
00:12:29
or, you know, that's just how I've always I've always been sort of uber
00:12:34
critical of myself. I don't know why but um and so fame was just one more avenue
00:12:41
for me to to to fall short or embarrass myself or you
00:12:46
know it becomes this thing like suddenly you're invited to the party and you're like with all the cool kids
00:12:52
and then you get this weird panic that when is this going to stop and oh I
00:12:57
wasn't at that event or I should have been at that or I wasn't included. It's just like it's a another level of
00:13:06
panic for it was for me at least. Cheryl, you get re-reed all the time. You you were saying it in the
00:13:11
documentary and you're saying it now. I would like in tiny ways you get re-minded. Like you go to the Golden
00:13:16
Globes and you're sitting eight rows back where you were the year before and you're like, is it is that part of
00:13:23
there's so many little things you keep getting checked like where you are in the food chain and Vanity Fair party.
00:13:28
They invite you at 9 or 1:00 a.m. You're like, "Wait a second. Does that matter?" And they're like,
00:13:34
"Well, you can't go and you can't bring a plus one this time and or you can and all that stuff is someone's in a room
00:13:41
deciding your fame level." And uh I know. Yeah. And they're all all the pictures of people on the red carpet and you've
00:13:47
like gone out of your way to look hot and you're not in the pictures. Or they'll say a press announcement of
00:13:52
like who came and you're not in those 10 they mention. You're like, "Oh, okay." Well, I was going to say, and one other
00:13:58
thing, I I find that I still see my name in the press and it'll be misspelled. Oh, and I'll just go, okay,
00:14:04
do they misspell crow or Cheryl? They do a C. Cheryl, they can't get any of it. Or sometimes it'll be like an E on the
00:14:11
end of crow. Yeah. Anyway, it's all that's part that's the
00:14:16
part that was so once I moved and especially once my boys came and really, truth be told, after I got diagnosed
00:14:22
with cancer, all that stuff just kind of went out the window and seemed ridiculous, you know.
00:14:29
Uh that same thing happened to me. It happened to me twice. Once with a health issue. I had botch bypass, but feels
00:14:34
good now. And once when I was picking up my son and he he went in for the playd
00:14:40
date. He's like nine. He comes out. He has a severely fractured wrist.
00:14:45
Oh my gosh. It's just like going at a right angle. So, we had to drive him to the hospital. And in that moment, everything got real
00:14:51
clear, you know. Yeah. I read I read this thing recently based on what we're talking about and I
00:14:56
can't believe I read something recently that would be helpful in terms of getting dinged in show business.
00:15:02
The people who criticize you are doing less than you. Oo, I like that.
00:15:08
Isn't it good? Cuz like we would never judge you. We know what the work that goes in. You know, I don't ever think of
00:15:13
anybody who's hot or not. I just know they have a story and they're talented and whatever. But do you go on social
00:15:20
media at all and look around? And David's good. I'm so I mean my assistant's sitting over here. I'm totally embarrassed. But
00:15:27
first of all, I'll say that my kids say I was born in the 1870s. I am so not tech, but also I I have
00:15:37
nothing to do with social media. That's not true. That's not true. I'm involved in my social media, but I don't know how
00:15:42
to go on it. I don't know how to post. I hand stuff to Liz and I'll say, "Can we post about this? This matters." Or um
00:15:50
but I don't I just don't do it. My kids don't have social media. I I already know how my personality is and there's
00:15:57
so much mean stuff on there. I would be distraught. So, how do you get your kids to not do they
00:16:03
want to be on and you you don't let them? Well, my 15year-old
00:16:08
um initially about about when he turned 12 started
00:16:13
begging me for Snapchat, of course, for sure. About 12 and a half. And all of his friends had Snapchat. They didn't have
00:16:20
Instagram. They didn't have uh whatever else that you have. What else is there? T didn't have Tik Tok. Um I know. I'm
00:16:27
sorry, but didn't have Tik Tok. And then um is that weird? I am weird. I I love Upworthy. like I
00:16:34
love that that I can get with. But anyway, so he asked me for his 14th birthday if he could have Snapchat.
00:16:42
And I said, "Oh my gosh, buddy, you don't have to ask for it for your birthday." So he got that. I mean, that's the weird one because you
00:16:48
can't check what they're doing. But there's a thousand ways it's Yeah, it is Snapchat.
00:16:53
There's so many ways though to see all the Tik Tok stuff on YouTube and we have all the parameters friend's house and you know,
00:16:59
yeah, you can't hard to control My daughter is actually grew up I don't know where you were in um Missouri. She is in
00:17:06
Springfield right now. Oh, not far. Yeah. So, she that's where she's growing up. And so Brad,
00:17:12
I think it's nice. It's nice there. Right. It is nice there. It is. My brother went to college there. And I've tried to keep
00:17:18
her there as long as I can in a bubble before she uh comes to stay in LA sometimes because
00:17:24
just I I can tell it's just it's getting scarier and scarier of how terrifying it
00:17:29
is for them to open to that world. Yeah. But it's kind of that way everywhere. I mean, we just have a we
00:17:35
have a rule that you can't be on your phone, you know, can't come and lay down on the couch and be on your phone for,
00:17:41
you know, I'm sort of at a 30 minute. You can do 30 minutes. Pick your screen. Um, and
00:17:48
I look at my screen time. It says I'm on uh 22 hours a day. I'm like, we can pump those numbers up.
00:17:54
I know they do. They admonish you. Your phone says you're down. You're down this week. Your usage is down. It's like,
00:18:00
[ __ ] you. Why aren't you on it more? What can we do to get you sucked back in?
00:18:05
Yeah. Come on. You, you know, anger really sells, man, and outraged. But I don't look at it. I get too way too uh
00:18:12
sensitive if I see one negative thing. or were you ever funny or whatever they say. I'm kind of bummed out and it makes
00:18:18
me mad that I even am affected. But I don't listen or watch anything I do essentially.
00:18:24
I don't like to see, hear, or feel anything. Me neither. Me neither. Plus, I'll tell
00:18:30
you the one thing about making a documentary when you're 60, right? Um, you see all that old I'm 60. I
00:18:37
turned 60 in February. you see all that old um footage of yourself and you you
00:18:43
still think you're that person and then it comes back over to an interview with you and there you are in the chair and
00:18:48
you're 60 and you you know I don't want to see it. I don't want to like I like to think that I'm still like in my 30s.
00:18:55
Hey, I'm up the ladder looking down at your age going not bad. But you're right. How do we compete? You know,
00:19:02
we're all so cute. Everyone is essentially all humans. All humans are cute. cuter with age
00:19:08
in their 20s. Adorable. Well, everybody's really cute in their 20s and 30s, but it's hard to, you know,
00:19:13
compare. What about Cheryl at Woodstock Day and I watched her shoes in the Woodstock one. I watched it because they said you were
00:19:19
on it and so I watched in 1999 that one. Well, wherever you had a full-blown
00:19:24
mullet. I did. I I was wear It was Let me just tell you, please.
00:19:30
This is a total aside. So, I have these wonderful hair pieces I can clip in my hair, right? not wearing them now, but um if I go on
00:19:37
stage or whatever and I have clipped them on both my boys so that they'll look like Tommy boy.
00:19:44
Wait, what? I mean, Joe Dirt. Sorry, Joe. Oh my gosh,
00:19:50
there's so many. That's all right. Joe Dirt. Yes, Joe Dirt is a big Halloween uh uh
00:19:55
costume. Yeah, it is a It is a look. Oh my gosh, I love it so much. But yeah, that documentary 199 The Woodstock is I
00:20:03
watched part of it on the airplane couple of days ago and I had to turn it off. It was so disturbing and I remember
00:20:10
it. I remember how awful it was. Was it scary for you? Because it got scarier like by the time Juel got on and
00:20:16
stuff, it was getting closer and closer to that whole I remember hearing about it, but when you watch how everyone went
00:20:22
bananas, it must have been uh I can't believe who would stay. You know what I mean? It was so bad.
00:20:28
Yeah. I don't know. It it is interesting that people did stay. It almost felt like they couldn't leave. But it was it
00:20:34
was debauched from the beginning because we were on the first day and we you could look out and you'd see all these
00:20:40
girls who were topless on guys shoulders, you know, trying to get the MTV camera to sweep around in front of
00:20:46
them and get on TV and um and they were already throwing [ __ ]
00:20:52
from the um outouses that were not set up right, that were leaking. And at what
00:20:59
point some landed on my hand while I was playing bass during my favorite mistake?
00:21:04
That's when we stopped. We played about four songs and I I remember saying not
00:21:10
not going to do it. Not going to do it. Not going to die. Wouldn't be prudent.
00:21:16
Suck me up. I don't normally do characters on the podcast, but not going to do it. Feces on the base.
00:21:23
Bad. Anyway, well that's a that's a good uh gig story. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a few of those. That that
00:21:29
was a highlight though. We went on after Andy Dick and then So that tells you what the vibe
00:21:36
was. Yeah. That's He went on after Insane Clown Posy. So we
00:21:41
Oh, who was going after them? Jesus. We were like, is this our is this our crowd? What' you open?
00:21:48
Would you come out with a rocker? How'd you try to follow Andy Dick? I think we came out with If It makes you
00:21:54
happy. I mean, that was our weapon, but is a weapon. Wow. Is that your Is that your one to go
00:21:59
to? You have so You have a lot of anthems. You have a lot a lot of anthems. God,
00:22:05
look through her [ __ ] I was like going, "Look at that song." Oh my god. Cuz I love Leaving Las Vegas and it came up my
00:22:10
iTunes the other day knowing Oh, wow. And it was without my phone knowing I
00:22:16
was, you know, we're going to talk this week. Or did it? Yeah. Did it? Yeah, that's really the
00:22:21
question. And that was that's a monster at that beginning bass. And uh great song is a huge story about it in your
00:22:28
documentary. And then also and then you keep going and going your first Letterman
00:22:34
uh backup for Michael Jackson. Just getting that you kind of skimmed over that in
00:22:39
audition for Michael Jackson. How in God's green earth did you sneak in an audition where they didn't go your
00:22:44
name's not on this list. You were just cute. You ran in and said I'm next. It's weird. Um, I I did a few sessions
00:22:52
out there with I started to get a little bit of work singing jingles, you know, the songs that are in commercials for
00:22:57
those that don't know. And um I think because I was the new kid
00:23:03
in town, I started to get some work and started getting hired and was on a
00:23:09
couple of sessions with the same guys. One of them was Daryl Fantasy, who's fantastic singer. Um, and actually it
00:23:16
was for John, one of them was for Johnny Matthysse. And, um, I overheard him talking to another
00:23:22
singer about the Jackson tour. So, um, I asked about it and you had to be
00:23:29
recommended by Bruce Swedine or Quincy Jones, um, or Rod Temperton. And of
00:23:35
course, I didn't know any of those people. I think I'd been in town maybe six months when I first started getting work. And, um, I found out where it was
00:23:42
and I drove out. It was at a rehearsal space. Uh I want to say sir, but that they don't I don't think they have that
00:23:48
in in LA. I can't remember what it was called. Drove there and thought, "What's the worst thing that can happen?" So I went and I knocked on the door and I
00:23:54
they they let me in. They they asked me what my name was. I said, "I'm Cheryl Crowe. I am not recommended, but I
00:24:00
overheard Daryl Finny." I mean, I told them straight up. It's good. You threw in some and they said, "Well, come on in." And
00:24:06
they put me on video first. Um and I said, "Hey, Michael. My name is
00:24:12
Cheryl Crowe. I just moved here. I was a elementary school teacher. Um, I'm out
00:24:18
here doing sessions and would love a chance to go on the road and sing back up for you or whatever. And then I I got
00:24:24
a call from Daryl and he he put me with um a couple other singers and we went in
00:24:32
and and sang together and they hired us. Now, was this supposed to be backup or were we supposed to sing your whole idea? Okay. Backup singer. But you
00:24:38
eventually were doing stuff singing with him. Well, he had two two or three songs that featured
00:24:44
uh females. Like one of them was Man in the Mirror, which was Sa Garrett on the record. Yeah.
00:24:50
Oh, and I can't stop loving you was also was that also can't stop loving. Yeah, that one.
00:24:59
[Music] It's interesting when you we see you like you're at home now and you're
00:25:05
Cheryl and sweet, personable, but when I watch you with Jagger and Michael
00:25:11
Jackson, okay, so like these titans and you're just like going for it. I mean,
00:25:16
it is kind of a it's a personality you put on it. It's fierce and rockstar. I
00:25:21
mean, what how that transition I mean, who was tougher, Jagger or or Michael, to like keep in their
00:25:28
face cuz they're both really aggressive, dancing with you, and you're right right up on top of him. It's very cool to see.
00:25:34
Um, uh, Mick Jagger was I mean, he's he was far more terrifying for sure. I
00:25:40
mean, I grown up with that guy, right? I grown up with the Sticky Fingers record and Unzipping the Zipper. I mean, they
00:25:47
were like dangerous, like edgy and they had all this folklore around
00:25:53
them, you know, and um and and by the time I got to sing with them,
00:26:01
um I mean I I' I'd seen them live a handful of times. I mean, that was like
00:26:07
that was the bomb. I was so afraid and I threw up all day. I was a nervous wreck.
00:26:13
Um, and I think I even talked about the documentary about um, Bobby Keys handing me a bottle of tequila right before I
00:26:20
went on a bottle of have a shot of courage and the next thing I know I'm out there with
00:26:26
them and um, yeah, I mean it's it's a funny thing and I know you guys know this too. It's
00:26:31
like you have you have this side that has to has to show up and
00:26:36
be fearless, but then you also I don't know if you guys are like this. as soon as you walk off stage, you go, "Oh my
00:26:43
god, I suck." Or, "I sucked." Or, "That was, you know, I want to do it again. I wish I could." You know, and it's it's
00:26:49
that that sort of balance between
00:26:54
stepping into it and then coming away from it and being able to just put it away without rehashing it with your with
00:27:01
all the voices that are in your head that tell you you suck. Do you I I sometimes do it later on. I mean, when you came off from Jagger,
00:27:07
really in that moment, did you think I just sucked or did you feel kind of cool? Obviously, the first faces are
00:27:13
crew guys or whatever and they have a range of compliments. Hey, and sometimes they'll change it midward. Hey, that was
00:27:20
really or nothing. That was really good. You know, they go from great,
00:27:25
you get these little messages and then if you get someone really high, you crushed it, you crushed it, you know,
00:27:30
and then later, hours later, I would think, ah, [ __ ] I missed that. I rushed that. So that
00:27:36
it's a funny, you know, it's a it's a funny thing. Um that was such an out-of-
00:27:42
body experience that I it was hard to even relate to it. And then compound
00:27:47
that with I mean literally we were we didn't even have a hit yet. I mean all I want to do come out and it was starting
00:27:53
to happen. Um but it it I I couldn't even process it. Um,
00:28:00
but you know, my nature has always been to not think I'm good enough, you know, and
00:28:07
I guess that's part of what propels you to work so hard is that you feel like whatever you're doing is never as great
00:28:14
as the Rolling Stones or never as great as Stevie Nicks or not even as great as you think you
00:28:20
should or could be. And it's taken me years really to grapple with that. And
00:28:26
you know, there's also, you know, you talk about the mental
00:28:32
um challenges that go along with being an artist or or or somebody who puts
00:28:38
themselves out there that shows up um you know, I I spent a little time with um Robin Williams uh through the
00:28:46
years and you look at somebody like that who can open himself up and be so beautifully funny and so just
00:28:54
seemingly happy. Yeah. But then in their real life, you know, they're struggling and that's
00:28:59
that's the story of a lot of us. I um got to know Robin uh quite a bit.
00:29:04
I've know I knew him since the 70s, you know. Yeah. And I got to know him when we were both up here in Marin County for the last 5
00:29:11
years. And part of what I feel about him is like his shyness and his vulnerability.
00:29:16
He would call me boss, but I he was my idol. and then his powerhouse on stage
00:29:21
and really he created this idea of a Shakespearean actor just showing up and it was just a brilliant concept of like
00:29:28
oh hey who and you never knew where he was going to go you know u one thing I wanted to ask you Cheryl but David's
00:29:35
going to ask a question first go ahead no I have a question about what to say to people when they get off stage so I
00:29:42
did the anod why do I think you were here andre Andrea Agassy uh charity in
00:29:47
Vegas maybe you weren't there So, uh, it's just I might have been there. All these stars go on, right? It's
00:29:54
comedy. It was me. I was at the table with Ray Romano. I thought you were at my table. Why do I even think this? Anyway,
00:30:00
I was there. Okay. So, you were there. Okay. Yes. That's the night I met Lance Armstrong. Okay. Carry on.
00:30:06
Interesting. My next question. That's a part two of the interview. Okay. I'll whiz through this story first
00:30:13
cuz this one sucks. Uh, so there there's so they go Ray's there and and you're
00:30:19
there. We're all this T whatever they go okay you're going to go up then Cheryl then remember so I have to go up before
00:30:25
Ray and I go after Do you remember there was like an 11-year-old phenom singer
00:30:31
from like American Idol or something. Yes I do anyway. So she so I they go she's only doing one song or something.
00:30:37
So, I'm waiting in the wings and she goes up and she does like I will always love you or something and she gets a
00:30:42
standing ovation and she walks off and I go, "Hey, get him next time." And then
00:30:48
she goes, "What?" Cuz I had to get in her [ __ ] head, Cheryl. Because you know what? She blew me off the stage and
00:30:53
I hate I couldn't follow her. So, I'm like, "Hey, tough crowd, huh?" And she's like, "What? I love your honesty. I love
00:30:59
I just knew 11 years old. I got to get in there and let her know what the what's going on, man." And so then I
00:31:05
went home. She's been in therapy ever since. She's like, "Didn't they get a standing obe?" She never sang again.
00:31:11
Isn't that good? I'm like, open her mouth. So then I got up. First of all, that was embarrassing. And then I get up and then
00:31:17
I bomb. And then I come down and I say to Ray Romano, just like comedian and
00:31:22
comedian, I go, "Hey, listen. You're next. Listen, the tables are really far apart. They can't hear you in the front.
00:31:29
There's kids in the back. There's a bar over here. It's just it's the worst case scenario." He gets up and kills for 20
00:31:35
minutes straight and I was like after I just explained why he's gonna
00:31:41
bomb and there's absolutely no way to do well here. He doesn't go down for anybody. Have you ever Cheryl when I've
00:31:47
seen you sing on this documentary and it seems like you if you have nerves they never affect your voice. You I like if
00:31:55
you're terrified with Jagger you don't hit a bad note do you in the whole thing. I mean that's just more
00:32:00
mathematical right? You don't hit a bad. That's nice. I bombed. I have bombed before. I promise. In fact, I can
00:32:06
remember doing a tribute. I think it might have been I feel like Neil Young
00:32:11
was on it. I don't know. It was a Music Cares thing. And I thought I knew the song, but I didn't know it very well.
00:32:17
And I got up and literally could not think of a single word and sang practically the whole song, Making Up
00:32:23
Crap. And I remember coming off stage and John Sykes, who was the head of uh
00:32:28
VH1, the head of BH1, saying something about, "Wow, I don't know if I've ever heard
00:32:34
that before." Yes, I I have definitely had moments of
00:32:40
bombing. Um Oh, yeah. I I've had deathifying bombs, you know. Yeah, I've done corporate work
00:32:46
occasionally. I worked at gun show I and all these guys were eating steaks
00:32:53
with their backs to me and they would just take a bite and kind of look up. But you know they pay you so much you
00:32:58
have to do those. Comedians are easy. They throw you anywhere. But I I'm jealous of musicians cuz corporate gigs can be tough.
00:33:05
Uh and then but with musicians you can sort of even if you bomb in quotes you
00:33:11
just say your you just do your song. The in between is kind of awkward because there's crickets. Yeah. But we're doing
00:33:18
every line we're getting feedback that it's not working. It's not. Yeah. Oh, I cannot I just can't imagine being
00:33:25
a comedian. And I I love I love the art form. I love comedians. And David, I've
00:33:31
never seen you bomb. You've always made me laugh. Oh, that's nice. But we But you're a sweet person. And uh
00:33:37
No, no, that's the truth. But I just can't imagine stand. We did a corporate gig. No, no, no. We
00:33:44
did a virtual gig uh in during the pandemic and I never done one of those where you do a concert
00:33:50
in front of like nothing. Yeah. There's no like in between songs it's like okay you hit that big last chord
00:33:56
and then it's just cricket. Yeah. It's like playing in Japan. You look over and there's some guy on
00:34:02
the side just texting. He like works here. He's like go on do your next song. I call it comedy waterboarding. I did
00:34:08
one with with Tony Robbins and he was interviewing me on the Zoom and he was
00:34:14
so enthusiastic and he had a global audience and all these screens and I would do Tony Fouchy or something and go
00:34:20
give it up for Dana Carvey and then there'd be two minutes of music and and I would just be dancing in my room like
00:34:26
no laughs. Yeah. You know, it's just I love Tony.
00:34:32
But um I was going to ask you, so you the one thing about being hard on yourself and you're still around doing
00:34:40
great stuff is that we have data now and there is something about lasting, you
00:34:45
know, and putting out cool stuff. And the seems to me that when you really got
00:34:52
into this super celebrity thing, it was when you're already exploding as a superstar and then you're dating another
00:34:58
superstar. And that's when the tabloids went 10.0, I know, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Definitely.
00:35:04
Yeah. And you know, I think interestingly enough, I had dated people before that were well known, but there
00:35:10
was something about that combo that was uh just
00:35:16
it was for Yeah, it was. Um Yeah. I mean, it's like I mean, I wouldn't put myself with JLo
00:35:23
and A-Rod like way up there, but you know, a combo like that is is it's
00:35:31
Yeah. Well, because there was Owen. Hey, how's it going? Oh, love Owen.
00:35:37
Well, Owen's the coolest dude. So, I still communicate with Owen. I absolutely love him.
00:35:42
Hey, uh just, you know, and I I mean, I've been really fortunate and I don't really have anything bad to say about Lance at
00:35:49
all. Um, I have been really fortunate to be with the people that I've been with
00:35:54
and I wouldn't change it, you know. Yeah, I think but I will say one thing. I did dream
00:35:59
last night that I married Brad Pitt. You must know Brad pretty well. That's a good plan.
00:36:04
I do know him pretty well. You know, I went to college with him. Oh, you did? Really? Was Did the girls all love him
00:36:10
then or what was he like? Well, you know, it's really funny. He's a year younger than me. Mhm. Um and I was the song or the Yeah. the
00:36:20
song leader at his fraternity, Sigmakai. Yes. Really? So I went over and I would work with
00:36:26
them with their their uh we had I can't remember what it was called, Greek week or whatever. So I was like their their
00:36:33
coach or whatever. But I knew him from campus running around. I knew the girl he was dating. And um you're always
00:36:40
friendly. He's from Springfield where your daughter is. Yeah. always friendly and I've seen him through the years. He's a good dude.
00:36:47
I swear he he sort of takes an an odd beating out there over this divorce thing that never ends. But he's I've
00:36:53
never seen him not be cool to people, not be nice to people. He seems like the most down to earth as he's a nice
00:37:00
person. Big of a star as he is, he's gives everybody time. I don't know how he does
00:37:05
it. And then but he keeps getting roughed up. I mean that that's a divorce for you, I I don't know
00:37:11
the the energy around someone like Brad Pitt and I think part of his shyness or
00:37:16
reclusiveness and he's not really readily available and it almost like Clooney was with Matt Damon and Brad
00:37:23
Pitt and they're at some film festival in Europe and Clooney just said like he and Damon just disappeared as soon as
00:37:29
Brad Pitt showed up. So there's this other level of uh being a true sex symbol and a really brilliant
00:37:36
actor is just this 10.0. Well, David, you know how that is. Been a sex symbol. Very,
00:37:41
you know, Cheryl, I'm glad you brought that up. And the ladies have my life arrangement is a struggle. But, you
00:37:47
know, the truth is also when you're dating, like you were saying, if you date someone
00:37:52
in the business, like you almost have to date someone like an Owen because like
00:37:59
that song even says, are you strong enough? Like, first of all, the tabloids don't care when you date a normal
00:38:04
person. So, it's not as big of a deal. And people think you're not even dating. They don't know what's going on. And
00:38:09
then they only jump on it if it's someone they know and they and like together it equals like five stars. It's
00:38:16
like two celebrities equal five. So, it's like you see these people on like uh reality shows together they make one
00:38:24
actual star. So, that's why they always date each other. Someone from the Bachelor dates someone from this one.
00:38:30
Well, the cynic kind of thinks is it is it an arrangement, David? is it's sort of like, hey, let's uh date for 3
00:38:36
months. Our pros explode. You two should get together for six. That's why I'm going to marry Brad Pitt
00:38:42
because I feel like that'll put me actually at a at least a five. Oh, you'd be you'd be huge. You guys
00:38:49
people couldn't deal with it. That that'd be that'd be crazy. I love my life. I don't I don't want to
00:38:54
get married. I I love my life. You don't want to get married? That's crazy. No, I would just want to sleep around.
00:39:01
Yeah. All right. Now, let's unpack the the last part of our podcast show.
00:39:08
I'm going to make sure my kids listen to this podcast. Yeah. Good. Hey, you know, women should own their um sexuality.
00:39:13
They should be able to do that, too. They should. But I got to be honest with you. 9:00 at night. Yeah.
00:39:18
I'm like, that's like, yeah, that's sleep for me. At 9:30, I'm out. If the guy's ready to rally from 8:50 to
00:39:25
9, if it's not in that window, beat it. Cuz uh Yeah. I don't I'm with you. During the pandemic, I just went to bed early, got
00:39:32
up early. It's hard for a nightclub performer. When you get up at 5:30 and the show's at 10 that night, you have to
00:39:39
wait 18 hours. But, you know, I like doing in Vegas. Me and Dana did this
00:39:44
show and uh I do it usually and then he covered for me once and he's like, "This thing's at [ __ ] 10, dude." I know. I
00:39:50
know. And then we do a Q&A at the end, so it's at like you get off by midnight. I go, "Is that that's too late, right?"
00:39:57
And he's like, "Yeah." And I go, "What am I doing?" I like 7:00 shows. I really at this age I just like I don't party anyway.
00:40:05
You also I was going to say, "Oh, yeah. No, I won't ask you about this." But that
00:40:10
ask me anything. No, it's not that exciting. I'm No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm I I first of all like
00:40:17
that when and especially when you said driven is sort of a negative to women,
00:40:23
but I think that it's nice in this day and age when no one really seems to want to work or work hard that that seems
00:40:30
like a trophy to say I was, you know what I mean? You wear it like a medal. Like I'm driven. meaning I actually want
00:40:37
to bust my ass and try really hard to get in a business where it seems like
00:40:43
every year that goes by that that's not how it works anymore. People want to be given things or people want to jump
00:40:49
ahead a lot easier and they don't want to work or they don't have to work. And so I love watching that when people put
00:40:56
in the hours cuz it is a hard job to get right and if you take it seriously whether it's standup or that or any sort
00:41:02
of writing you write and uh and do it all and you perform that that's like something to be so
00:41:09
proud of and it's weird when people give it to you like it's a negative that that's a hard thing to take. Yeah. I think I think for women, you
00:41:17
know, the idea of an ambitious woman is such a turnoff. Like for instance,
00:41:23
you know, well, it's like a woman gets called like a [ __ ] or you know, um I can remember when uh I
00:41:31
mean this goes way back, but um what was the woman? Oh my gosh. Uh who ran for
00:41:38
president years ago, Sarah Palin or vice president? No, no, no. This way, way I want to say
00:41:43
Kafaro, but it's not that. But anyway, uh about there was always a discussion
00:41:49
about her how ambitious she was and how um uh unlikable, you know, that kind of
00:41:56
thing. And I I don't know. I I I still find that is is problematic when you
00:42:01
have ambitious men and it's such a admirable trait. But for a woman to be ambitious and let's face it, you know,
00:42:06
if you are the head of a company or or if you're a politician or or a successful woman in general, you you
00:42:13
have some ambition and that ambition is fed by hopefully the desire to be really
00:42:19
good at something and the love of doing that something and that, you know, that's that question you were just
00:42:27
asking David about people not wanting to work hard. I mean, even in raising my boys, I keep having to say to them,
00:42:34
look, if you're going to do this, you want to dedicate your energy and your
00:42:39
time, and you're blessed to have resources to be good at this thing that
00:42:45
you love. Um, because it's not all about the end product. And it's I don't know
00:42:50
where we're off like where when I was growing up, everybody was middle class. There was no, you know, people weren't
00:42:57
rich. Yeah. And so I grew up idolizing all these amazing musicians and bands. And I
00:43:05
felt like I didn't it wasn't about being famous. It was about being great. You know what I mean? So I don't know where
00:43:10
we're off. I guess it's really easy to to be famous and it's really easy to get rich.
00:43:16
That's it. Yeah. So nobody really wants to they don't equate work with becoming famous or work
00:43:22
with becoming rich. It just changed. And it's not um anyone's fault, but we when you were
00:43:28
really when you're on television as Frank Sinatra or whoever or or Stevie Nicks, they were just really great. And
00:43:35
now because of social media and instant hits and stuff and it's very demoralizing for young people
00:43:42
when they see and I do a joke a guy who opens pickles jars and is making seven figures. All right, my name is Steve.
00:43:48
Today we're going to open some nice deals, you know, and he's making seven figures on YouTube. YouTube and
00:43:54
monetization. You know, [Music]
00:44:01
interesting enough, you this comes back to you. So, the corporations of the big music
00:44:06
publishing companies are now buying artist cataloges. They obviously got Springsteen, they got this. They're not
00:44:13
so much buying the more modern product because these anthems, these big songs
00:44:21
really monetize well going generationally, you know, like your hits, you know,
00:44:27
could are just right here right now. Strong enough. I mean, they're just if
00:44:32
it makes you happy, all those. So, have you have you been approached or have you sold your catalog?
00:44:38
Well, I sold my catalog um not my songwriters, but I sold my catalog about
00:44:45
three albums ago because everything was going to streaming. And we were
00:44:51
approached um with the idea that they would start getting placement so that the songs
00:44:57
would be heard more um but I wouldn't lose my songwriters. So, I didn't get the the giant chunk
00:45:04
that like a Springsteen or you Bob Dylan or whatever. What a songwriter mean though? What do
00:45:10
you mean? Um, so you get paid for the um you get
00:45:15
paid publishing and you get paid your songwriter. So I split my songwriter
00:45:20
with whoever I write my song with. And if I don't write it with somebody, then I take 100% of the songwriters,
00:45:26
okay, uh, fee or whatever the money that comes in. So when it goes through ASCAP or BMI
00:45:33
or wherever it is, um some of it goes to the publishing company, some of it goes
00:45:39
to the songwriter. Um but it's interesting now because
00:45:44
everything is streaming. Um you know, we make a a a penny or maybe two pennies
00:45:50
every time a song is is streamed. So how much of a penny do you get paid for the
00:45:56
song, right? It's it's it's nothing. I mean, 100% of a penny is still going to
00:46:01
be a penny, you know? So, so it's it's all it's just ridiculous.
00:46:06
And I I don't know. I mean, I love that Bruce and and Neil and all these people are making hundreds of millions of
00:46:12
dollars, but I go I don't know. I I mean, it's sort of like Bitcoin to me.
00:46:17
Do you mean like how does the people that buy it make it back? Because it's so It's Is it overpaying for Well, I guess what they do is they sell
00:46:24
the right to use that song in a commercial. They they they're out there to try to sell it to make money which
00:46:29
wouldn't be stuff like that. And that's why maybe the album is kind of over for now in a way. I mean, you're going to
00:46:35
release more like just batches of songs or you release I'm going to release batches of songs, but I mean that's not for everybody. For
00:46:41
for me, like I said, I'm 60. Is the new term batches pancakes? You're going to do batches of
00:46:48
songs like batch one promised land. I liked in the uh Dana in
00:46:55
the documentary, remember? I think it was toward the end um where she uh where she said you came out to somewhere.
00:47:02
Maybe it was Bonnaroo. Where is Bonaroo? Tennessee or something. Yeah. Yeah. And and and the people weren't there
00:47:08
yet, but by the time you went on, first of all, when they when you said 4:00, I was like I was at one of those festivals
00:47:13
and it was like this Nor McDonald went on at noon. I went on at I luckily went on before Tom Petty, which is great, but
00:47:20
it was kind of night time. There were very weird times people went on. It was like all day. But you went on, the place was packed.
00:47:26
And then you said this whole new generation when you went to I think if it makes you happy, which is one of your
00:47:32
big [ __ ] hits that uh they all knew it. And that's cool. That's the coolest thing is that it keeps going. It's for
00:47:38
me like someone seeing a movie or something that they a new generation knows it and you can't believe how would
00:47:45
you even see it? Because that's something people like. People don't listen to radio. go, "Oh,
00:47:50
here's a new Cheryl Crow song or here's an old one." Someone had to tell them or some and they all know all the words.
00:47:56
It's very cool. I mean, it it's it's funny because about maybe five years ago, my manager started
00:48:03
talking about and now you're a legacy artist. And I like that's like, okay, I've got my art card. Um, I'm legacy
00:48:11
artist. That's what I I'm trying to be. But it's kind of cool. Yeah. I mean,
00:48:16
people's kids have grown up. I mean like I I know Bert Bacharak and I know
00:48:21
Yeah. of course obviously I know the Rolling Stones, but I mean I I grew up with parents that played music and all this
00:48:26
generation is growing up with parents who grew up with my music and it is it's a rarified place to be. It's,
00:48:33
you know, it's awesome. Some some high school kid today, boy or girl, is going to listen to uh my
00:48:39
favorite mistake today for the first time and become possessed by it. You know, I
00:48:45
mean, I noticed in your songwriting, which is kind of cool in, you know, Brandy Carile talked about it. You kind
00:48:51
of you're doing these major chords or it's just this setup and then it goes in unexpected places. I'm not a
00:48:57
musicologist, but seems to go minor or weird that the second parts of your
00:49:02
songs are so explosively different and the setup is kind of kind of I don't know. I mean, how do you write a melody
00:49:09
like that's that part for my my favorite mistake? Cuz that's such a cool melody. weird, you know.
00:49:15
I don't know. But I will say I I am I love I'm so proud of my references. Like
00:49:21
I loved the Beatles so much. What I know
00:49:28
love the Beatles and that documentary just uh I mean I binge watched it and then I rewatched the last episode
00:49:36
and um it you know I I think a lot of a lot of stuff that I wind up writing is
00:49:41
osmosis. I mean, you know, um I don't know what it's like to write jokes
00:49:47
because it seems like I mean, I'm sure you guys grew up with George Carlin and um uh Richard Prior, all the all the
00:49:55
greats and I'm sure same thing. Same thing. Yeah. So you get a like a a a cadence or
00:50:02
you know you you do what they do for a while and then you go okay how now you start hopefully transitioning to who you
00:50:10
are and that becomes your thing but you're still standing on the shoulders of all the the dudes that
00:50:16
wrote the book, right? You're like a research paper of your favorite people and then you start turning into your own.
00:50:21
This is a horrible question to ask, but what Beatles songs kind of speak to you like off off the top of your head? that
00:50:28
you really liked. Okay, I'll just start. Here, there, and everywhere. Here, there, and everywhere. I mean,
00:50:34
that song is amazing. And then you hear Emmy Lou Harris do it and you go, that song is amazing again. Yes. I mean, that's why their songs are so
00:50:40
great. Yesterday is one of my favorite songs. Long and Whining Road is one of my favorite songs.
00:50:46
Um, uh, Love by John Lennon is one of my favorite songs. I got so much good stuff
00:50:53
in there. I mean, get back uh uh come together. I mean, just, you know, but
00:51:01
definitely Blackbird and Yesterday to me are the two of the greatest songs ever written. When we did um talk to we got lucky talk
00:51:09
to Paul, but he said, was it yesterday where he says when he goes when he brings it in, do you bring it in and go,
00:51:14
I got a winner? And he goes, no, you can't. You have to walk in and go, hey, I did a new one if you guys want to hear
00:51:21
it. And then he said, Ringo said, "I I can't put any drums on that." And then
00:51:26
John said, "I can't put any more guitar in it." And they said, "What if we put strings?" And he said, "No." That was George Martin. Yeah. And he said, "No, it's we're rock
00:51:32
and roll. We don't want strings on it." And and I go, "Oh, we had a little bit of the process." Yeah. It was interesting, Cheryl. And we
00:51:38
can cut this out if it overlaps, but we did get to talk to Paul and we were both very nervous. Uh I was
00:51:44
on the road in Wyoming with my family in Montana. But anyway, it he
00:51:51
uh once we started talking about get back, he really lit up and I asked him, "Did John ever thank you for your
00:51:56
baselines?" And that was like a big thing for him. And well, we we found our way to come
00:52:03
together and he talked about how John just had one line, here come Old Flattop, which
00:52:09
was a Chuck Barry song he had to pay for later. And then he kind of teased it out of him that he wrote that opener. He
00:52:15
said to Joan, "We got to have an open. We can't just go right in." So that became
00:52:22
So I go, "Paul, that's one of the best chills openings of a song ever." And then later on he had said, "We wrote it
00:52:28
face to face." Cuz he comes in even though it's so leniny. Paul comes in with one a cracker. He got Juju Eyeball.
00:52:35
So Paul his comprehensive musicality I think just influenced the band. His
00:52:42
fingerprints were every like because he could do the percussion. He had a four octave range sing all the harmonies. He
00:52:49
could play the uh all the keyboards and all the guitars. So anyway, interesting uh interview and I couldn't sleep for a
00:52:56
week after that because I kept thinking of what I should have asked. I see. I would have just loved to have
00:53:01
been um in the room. on the wall listening. Yeah. Listening to you guys interview him
00:53:07
because that was one of the things about the documentary that um I mean not to be
00:53:12
like um all woowoo and stuff but watching them in the room and and the
00:53:21
the musicality of all four of those guys like Ringo never played anything that
00:53:26
didn't feel exactly perfect and right for the song. Yep. For the song. Uh
00:53:33
Paul I mean everything he played was not just tasteful but it was like unique and
00:53:39
memorable. I mean there was so much happening his his interplay even the tension between he and George all of and
00:53:47
and then the combination of him and John. I know I'm going on I'm going somewhere. We love we love to talk about the
00:53:53
is I mean I am so I so believe that there is an energetic
00:53:58
uh component to the universe that brings that together. I mean
00:54:05
because there are too many instances where you just go where in the world did that come
00:54:11
from or even when you write a song and you go okay like my favorite mistake I felt that way after that song I felt
00:54:19
like okay I don't know where that came from and also I feel like it's already been written because it feels so complete.
00:54:26
Such a great melody. There are moments where you go okay you can't define what creativity is. Yeah. You can't really define what inspiration
00:54:33
is, but it is a real thing. And that to me is like, okay, that's just God. I
00:54:38
mean, however you want to define that energy that is unique to you. And I
00:54:45
watched that in that documentary, that energy that no matter what was happening
00:54:51
between them, it all was part of the outcome. And I don't know. I just I
00:54:56
guess the older I get, the more I get into the idea that these things aren't accidents. You're
00:55:02
tapping into something. Well, Dennis Miller, who's a big Beatle fan, he said it this way to me, goes
00:55:07
Carving, I can understand, you know, Led Zeppelin. Okay, I get Pink Floyd or, you
00:55:13
know, you too and all that, but for the life of me, I can't understand the Beatles. How does that
00:55:20
happen? And it's Lightning in a Bottle. What was sweet about it, Cheryl, and it'll be on
00:55:25
the podcast, is that he he still has this this love of John and there was an
00:55:33
he loved that that he you could see them joking around with each other. Yeah. Even though John was taking the piss out
00:55:39
of him a little bit, there was a bit of a competition going on because Paul had long and windy road. He was on this upswing and had a ton of songs and John
00:55:47
had to bring across the universe to the album which is right insane. mindblowing.
00:55:52
It's like a left, it's a right. It's too much. I mean, if the amount of hits, you could retire off that one alone.
00:55:58
I know. If he just wrote Here, there, and everywhere, he'd be a famous person. But
00:56:03
I can see your influence u in a good way. But you have your own Cheryl Crow brand. But I think you do write songs.
00:56:10
I'm sure you've if you've met Paul, and I'm sure he's a fan of your music. That's pretty trippy, right?
00:56:16
I don't know. I don't know if he is or not, but I did. It's kind of funny. I did meet him um when I was doing Fallon
00:56:21
in the NBC building. And it's funny because um I have so many memories. I mean
00:56:29
certainly from doing Saturday Night Live. Um Oh, that's right. Being in that building and getting to
00:56:34
meet people, you know. Um three times on SNL. Cheryl Crow. Three times on SNL.
00:56:40
That's a hard one to do. today of so the choice of anyone at all times and to get asked back three different times.
00:56:46
I had to sleep with Lauren like 11 times. Oh, I've been there. What did Lauren say to you? I'm still sleeping with him. I don't
00:56:52
know why. I don't even just I'm in the habit. Um, so you'll be doing If it makes you happy and that'll be your first song.
00:56:58
Maybe something we've heard of. Um, maybe second song you pick. Dealer's choice.
00:57:05
Here's what Paul said to me about you, Cheryl. You know, I go, Paul, who do you like contemporary? Well, you know, I
00:57:11
like Cheryl Crowe. You know, she's got she's got she's got a good thumper. She's got a good, you know, bassy and
00:57:18
guitars and harmonies. She's a big vocal, a big voicer. Sorry, that's
00:57:23
funny. He didn't say that. Don't. She's freaking out. Don't say I'm freaking out just going, "Oh my
00:57:28
gosh, I'm sure he loves you." I wish I would have recorded that and then posted it like he actually did say
00:57:34
that. Well, you know, if it makes you happy, why are you so sad? You know, it's one of those turns John and I would do. It's like a
00:57:40
big old course, you know, makes you happy. You think, "Oh, it makes you happy." Then why you're so sad? It takes
00:57:45
the carpets out, you know, and that keeps it kind of going, you know, it gets you ally. I don't know. Okay, I'll
00:57:51
do it all day. That's incredible. That sounds That's incredible. I do it just to be with Paul McCartney.
00:57:57
I will you call my voicemail and just leave that on there for me so I can use pull her. No, I can't do it. But um
00:58:05
Dana, I got to tell Cheryl before we uh let her leave and go back to that. She doesn't want to leave. She wants to
00:58:10
talk about She doesn't want to leave. She should I don't I have to tell her that when I'm looking over these songs. First of all, I like
00:58:16
that I'm trying to look at my favorite ones just for absolutely no reason. But if it makes you happy, I like that you
00:58:23
work in mosquito in that one because it's hard to get into songs. Surely unused pop word.
00:58:28
Yeah, it's very very underused. And I have to say, and this is a dumb story,
00:58:35
but when I was uh with Kid Rock, one of his albums came out, and that's we're
00:58:40
hanging out more. And he goes, I think he was up against Pink when it came out. I don't know why I remember this. It's
00:58:46
probably a lie, but I So, he's driving. You can attest to this. If you're in a
00:58:51
car with him, he's playing his album. If you're in his house, he's playing his album. If you're in his anywhere, he's
00:58:57
playing a video of himself. So, um, he goes, "You got to hear the new album." And I go, "Oh." And then he played the
00:59:02
whole the whole thing. So, I don't know as much about music as you or Dana. I don't know anything.
00:59:08
Dana knows a lot. So, he plays the songs and he goes,
00:59:13
"This one's the one that comes out first and then this one and then this one." And then [ __ ] picture comes on and I
00:59:20
know nothing, Cheryl. And I go, "That's [ __ ] great." And I go, "Play that one again." And he goes, "It's with Cheryl."
00:59:26
And I go, "God damn, that's catchy. That is so good." And she's so good in it. I
00:59:32
And he goes, "Well, that's gonna come later." And if I'm not mistaken, the first two songs did okay. And then
00:59:38
Picture blew the [ __ ] up. Is that possible? It exploded. It's so good. It's so
00:59:44
You know what he said, which was funny. He said after we recorded it, he said, "That's going to go to number one." I
00:59:50
was like, "Really?" Oh, that's so cool. And he's like, "That's going to go to number one." I'm telling you, it pops up my iPod all the time and it's so [ __ ]
00:59:56
good. And you're so great in it and I just go, God. And I know he he takes a beating out there, but he can sing, man.
01:00:03
He gets these he gets it right. And that one he got right and he he's got a lot of great [ __ ] out there. Um
01:00:09
Yeah. And um how did that happen? He knew he had it and came to you or you had it came to him or what happened?
01:00:14
Oh, no. He had it. In fact, I didn't write nearly as much on that as he did. I mean, and he's he's super uh like when
01:00:22
he's in the studio, he is fearless, man. I mean, he has listened to so much great music
01:00:28
and can play a lot of things and um you know, he he's really masterful at
01:00:34
getting his ideas down and um Yeah, he knows it back and forth. He knows a lot. Yes, he Yeah, he does. And he's but he's
01:00:40
also, you know, very savvy when it comes to what he thinks will hit. And yeah,
01:00:46
you know what's funny? I used to bust his balls because he goes, "Hey, I got this this guy wants me to come play his
01:00:51
birthday party. Give me 50 grand to come sing." I go, "Does he give you another 50 to get off?"
01:00:57
He goes, "He'd play we do karaoke at my birthday party." And he goes, "Maybe I'll get up with these guys." I'm like,
01:01:02
"Maybe it's it's going to within seconds." So he would sing karaoke and then that was for the next three hours.
01:01:10
He kept we I don't know if you ever came down to we in in New York. I think it was in the late 90s maybe. We would uh
01:01:17
show up once a week at Shine, which was a a club uh
01:01:23
downtown. And uh we do all covers and any given night. Oh my god, how fun.
01:01:29
Mike Mills, uh Stevie Nicks sat in with us. Keith Richards sat in with us. Anyway, Kid Rock came down and it was
01:01:36
the same night that Keith sat in and he kept yelling Keith's name. Keith Richards. Keith Richards. And Keith got
01:01:43
really mad, like irritated. He's like, "Quit saying my [ __ ] name." And I at one point I'm just like, "Okay, I'm not
01:01:50
sure how to manage." You know, we're bling all these bad 90s covers. Wow.
01:01:56
But uh he's a lot of fun. And I will say that picture Yeah. is one of the most covered songs in
01:02:03
karaoke in the world. That is, you know, one of my claims of fame. Wow. I'm telling you, it's And on top of
01:02:09
everything else you've done. And then I was looking at this and I go, "Oh, that's right." Picture on top of all the
01:02:15
stuff. So, just had to high five you for that one. That's so good. Um, gota gotta high five Bobby for that one.
01:02:22
Yeah. Yeah. He he he does I bust his balls all the time, but he he is good. Okay. You know, traveling woolberries.
01:02:29
Wbererries. Yes. So, past and present, if you were going to make a female super group, who would
01:02:36
be in there? I mean, obviously you would put in Stevie Obviously. Obviously, I would put
01:02:44
in Stevie Nicks. Most definitely. Um, super group. 10 out of 10. Ste.
01:02:50
Yeah. And I would ask Brandy, you know. She loves you and she's cool. Brandy is amazing and she's a great
01:02:57
songwriter and she's just kickass chick. She's cool. Um, God, who else? I mean,
01:03:04
it's only three. It's like Nirvana so far. Bonnie Ra, Emmy Lou Harris, Bonnie would be amazing. Emmy would be
01:03:10
amazing. Linda Ronstat would Ron say yes.
01:03:15
I mean, young wise, I mean, you know, the Traveling Wilberries, each one of them had a huge full body of material.
01:03:23
Yeah. So, I mean, because there's a lot of young people out there that will will be young that you like.
01:03:28
Oh, man. I mean, I love Marin. Great songwriter, great performer, great singer. I love Courtney Barnett. She's
01:03:34
amazing. I love the Haim girls. They're great. Um, who else?
01:03:41
Goes on and on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love Florence in the Machine. She's really interesting. There's a young girl named
01:03:47
Cassie, I want to say. Anyway, there's there's a lot of good young female music
01:03:52
out there. True. Yeah. It's hard to break through, though. I mean, there's just it's there's just so much of everything with
01:03:59
everything is everything now. Yeah, it's true. What's in your hand? What's going on down there?
01:04:05
Who me? Yeah. Oh, guitar picks. Are you going to write us as soon as
01:04:11
this podcast is over? Are you going to pick up one of those guitars and just go [ __ ] crazy and write a masterpiece?
01:04:17
Are you write a song about me and Dana? Yeah. Just like podcasting with the lady and Joe Dirt.
01:04:23
The lady. What is it? Oh,
01:04:29
did you forget how to play? What is that? I can't even hear it.
01:04:39
Oh, that sounded a little Patty Smith, didn't it? I like it. It had a little punk to it. We'll get it on Tik Tok right away.
01:04:46
Cool. Please do. Yeah, please get me on Tik Tok. I know. Is that something they want you
01:04:51
to do is like try to snip at your song on Tik Tok? Okay. So, the documentary was coming out
01:04:56
and Showtime was really hoping that I would open a Tik Tok account and do Tik
01:05:01
Tok. God, is that so real? 12year-old was like, "Mom, please don't."
01:05:07
She's like, "That is so cringey." I'm on Tik Tok and it's so gross. I'm going to join it. You know that word cringey, though, like
01:05:14
when you doing something that you shouldn't be doing cuz you're not cool. It's cring. That's right. I'm I'm thinking of
01:05:21
joining it though. I don't know. you are. No, I don't look at any social media, but I've heard of it. No, Dana doesn't look and he gets
01:05:27
comments and I have to answer for him because they go, "Hey, what does Dana think?" And I go, "Well, Dana would probably I don't see Look at anything, but I do
01:05:34
from what I understand the New York You should do TikTok. You would be huge." Well, thank thank you.
01:05:39
Okay, I'm saying that and I don't Thank you, Cheryl. You don't know anything of
01:05:45
me. New York Times had a 20page article on what is Tik Tok. So essentially I got
01:05:51
the idea that rhythmic musicality is shared like you make something like if I
01:05:57
did jump then other people take it and go with it. So I don't know if it is if it is about audio musicality catchphrase
01:06:04
broccoli could work knows what it is. Chop I do
01:06:09
chopping broccoli. Yeah I've said that in my kitchen to my boys and they look at me like what? Uh we got to get your boys up to speed
01:06:17
man. Oh my kids don't like try to turn them on onto all the good stuff. They don't think I'm funny. They just
01:06:22
show me Joe Dirt and Ben Schwarmers and Oh, they're going to watch Joe Dirt for
01:06:28
sure. And they need to know who the church lady is for sure. In Wayne's world, they usually
01:06:34
in Wayne's world. They need to know. Yes, they will. They will get them up to speed.
01:06:41
And then next time we go to uh uh down there, we'll make Cheryl come out to the show.
01:06:48
Hey, would y'all please let me know if you ever come to Nashville? I'm your buddy. I know, but I didn't I didn't really
01:06:54
know. I love Nashville. I We think about moving there all the time. It It's cool. Just don't come here and
01:07:00
buy a house. Oh, California. Come on out to take over. Californians making the prices go up,
01:07:06
that kind of thing. Interlopers. Oh my gosh. You have no idea. Montana. I'm from Montana. It's all
01:07:11
going on up there. All the billionaires are coming in. I'll take five of those. There's a great comedian, Theo Vaughn,
01:07:17
one of my good buddies, lives out there. So, when I go see him, I'll play the Ryman and then I'll make you come down,
01:07:22
please. How many seats is the Ryman? I want to go in there and rock that place. How much is it? 300. I think I play it
01:07:28
once. Yeah, it's 20 somewhere around there. I did play it once. It used to be Grand Was it the Grand Old Opry or am I being stupid?
01:07:35
It was the Grand Old Opry and before that it was a church way, way early. Before that, it was a Waterburger.
01:07:41
Well, I played it. I played it and I came off stage and Cheryl happened to be there and she goes, "That was that was
01:07:48
good." I'm kidding. That was so You really went out there, didn't you? She goes, "Oh, they're a little tight.
01:07:54
Why do we have all this self- loveling? What the [ __ ] is going on?" Here's here's the one to say, Dana. When you get When Sher gets off, I'm going to
01:08:00
go, "Fuck that crowd. I'm going to get in the fetal. I thought I did good."
01:08:06
I thought they liked me. No, they were tough. No, that was a hard crowd, man. No, we'll get them. We'll get it later
01:08:12
position and cry myself to sleep with questions I should have done better. Oh, no you aren't. This Hey, this was
01:08:19
the best podcast I've ever done. Ever. Thank you. We love you. You know, she's
01:08:24
really good on the podcast. She's very straightforward. You don't have to play any games. I do Paul now. I
01:08:31
actually write songs as Paul. Wait, when you interviewed Paul, did you do Paul?
01:08:36
Oh, yeah. Did you do it? I did Paul I did it a little bit. that I was a little I couldn't, you know, I was trying I
01:08:42
didn't want to piss him off, but I I probably interview paralysis. Yeah. I was like, I'm Dana's Yoko.
01:08:49
I mean, there's just so many things you're scared to say to him because you don't He He seems very light on his feet, but you just He's too respected.
01:08:56
You can't risk it. Yeah. He's He's a sir, right? Yeah. He's too It's too big a deal.
01:09:02
We didn't go there with a sir. At first, I read a lot of liver puddling phrases. So I I said, "Did you have your brekie?"
01:09:09
Your brekie. But he was just waking up. He had a cup of coffee. I don't think he knew what I was. That's breakfast in
01:09:15
liver puddle language. A scouse. You know, we had a good time. This is
01:09:21
him now. You know, we did some things. We tried. No, he got into it. He got into it toward the end.
01:09:27
We were getting stuff from me, Cheryl. It was just electrifying. And he wanted to talk about the Beatles the whole
01:09:32
time. Oh my god. But I didn't know that at the beginning. You hear it from the guy. All right. So anyway,
01:09:39
all right. Let let her go back to Everybody loves you. You're you're uh you're a um a great
01:09:47
artist. I don't like you don't legacy. What's that? And you know, you're in Nashville. You're like a teenager.
01:09:53
Yeah. You know, a teen really in teenager. Country country music does not have an
01:09:59
age. That's what's brilliant about it. You do pop, rock, jazz. You do every style, but you also can do country.
01:10:06
I have to say I feel like I'm in my 20s. You look great. And that's why I really like doing
01:10:12
podcasts because as far as your listening audience knows, I look like I'm in my 20s. There, I said it.
01:10:18
You look great. Your voice is still uh raspy and sexy and then your your singing is still perfect
01:10:24
cuz I'm still smoking like a faint. You're staying really fit even when you were
01:10:30
touring. I was I was going to ask how you stayed so fit um throughout your career because using a tour a lot.
01:10:37
I mean I have to I have to admit um it is genetic. What? Yes, it's genetic.
01:10:45
I'm from a long line. Kind of wiry and fit. Petite small petite wiry people. So you don't gain weight. You just kind
01:10:51
And you work out on stage when you're out there for I work out on stage and I'm very I mean
01:10:56
I get up in the morning and I do not sit down. I mean, I'm I'm always doing
01:11:02
her backstage ride is five Triscuits and a slim gym. And that's all I get all day. That's it. And one five hour energy. Um,
01:11:10
that's my actually that's mine. Uh, all right, Cheryl, let's let her go. Dana, she's been too nice.
01:11:15
Thank you. Bye. Bye, Cheryl. It's good to see y'all. We'll see you soon, I'm sure, in Nashville. I hope so. Call me when you come to
01:11:21
Nashville. Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow
01:11:26
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a friend. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe. We're on video now.
01:11:38
Fly on the Wall presented by Odyssey and executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro, and Greg
01:11:44
Holtzman, Mattie Sprung Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey. Our senior
01:11:49
producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech. Booking by Cultivated
01:11:56
Entertainment. Special thanks to Patrick Fogerty, Evan Cox, Mora Curran, Melissa
01:12:03
Wester, Hillary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gainner, Sean Cherry, Kurt
01:12:09
Courtourtney, and Lauren Vieira. Reach out with us any questions be asked and answered on the show. You can email us
01:12:16
at fly onthewallsey.com. That's audacy.com.
01:12:23
[Music]
