00:00:00
um I think when we started I would have
00:00:01
been quite stoic and afraid to show
00:00:03
emotion um and things just get me now
00:00:07
which I I think it's the kids I think
00:00:09
it's the family and like with me's story
00:00:12
that the kids involved like like pulls
00:00:14
on strings but also because we've been
00:00:17
doing this journey together me and Shay
00:00:21
best friends who started this thing in
00:00:22
my garage and now we're on this sort of
00:00:25
Epic wave and we're not really sure
00:00:26
where it's going there are moments where
00:00:29
we reflect
00:00:30
on you know difficult times for us which
00:00:34
get me as well and there'll be time like
00:00:36
what do you mean have you got an example
00:00:38
uh yeah guy espa came on our show and um
00:00:42
really weird dynamic because our show is
00:00:44
between two beers and it's sponsored by
00:00:46
export gold gion was on to promote his
00:00:49
book about how better his life called
00:00:52
the drinking G since he stopped given up
00:00:54
alcohol and Sheamus has been uh off the
00:00:58
booze for about two years now
00:01:00
and towards the second half of the
00:01:02
episode uh Shay started sort of talking
00:01:05
about his experience with booze and Shay
00:01:09
I don't want to speak on your behalf for
00:01:10
me but um is it the cheeseburger story
00:01:14
sh Shay is in probably having the best
00:01:16
year of his life like he is smashing it
00:01:18
on all fronts and I
00:01:21
remember we might have started the Pod
00:01:24
it might have been early days um he was
00:01:26
not in a great place like
00:01:31
struggling it's all right man go for
00:01:34
it
00:01:36
and yeah as you can see when I think
00:01:40
about how far he's
00:01:43
come and how difficult those
00:01:45
conversations were that gets me yeah
00:01:49
yeah I think it's been really good in
00:01:50
terms of making making sense of the
00:01:54
world for me um it's given
00:01:56
me um a voice where sometimes a lot of
00:02:01
maybe what I was thinking or things that
00:02:03
were rattling around my head they
00:02:05
wouldn't come out and they'd bottle them
00:02:06
in and my way of coping was to turn to
00:02:09
the bottle and it was to to drink and to
00:02:11
suppress to suppress those emotions and
00:02:13
and maybe not deal with them um and you
00:02:16
get courage from other people having the
00:02:18
courage to share their story and it
00:02:20
gives you a little flicker of oh I felt
00:02:23
like that or I've been in that position
00:02:25
and I think with the podcast you've got
00:02:28
to give to get and I think yeah it's
00:02:31
like a vulnerability exchange is it yeah
00:02:33
yeah but not in a not in a [ __ ] um
00:02:37
like you drink Seven up and I drink
00:02:38
eight up you know what I mean like it's
00:02:40
it's not about like who's had a [ __ ]
00:02:41
experience but it's about it's about
00:02:43
it's about I guess showing showing who
00:02:45
you are and showing that you understand
00:02:47
you have you have a level of empathy and
00:02:50
yeah it has been like in terms of of of
00:02:52
that situation yeah I was in the the
00:02:54
darkest depths that I I had been you why
00:02:58
what what um was there any sort of like
00:03:00
Catalyst I think probably I was looking
00:03:02
around in like comparison as a thief of
00:03:05
Joy or whatever however that whatever
00:03:06
that saying goes and I was sort of mid
00:03:09
late 30s no relationship I was living at
00:03:12
home with my mom which is totally fine
00:03:14
but you D can gner if you're listening
00:03:16
to this it's all
00:03:17
good but um you know like life is a
00:03:20
shared experience as well so you know
00:03:22
I'd love my mom dearly um and I love
00:03:25
spending time with her but there there
00:03:26
is an element of joy that was probably
00:03:29
missing so while I was able to do some
00:03:32
cool things and travel around and and
00:03:34
have exciting experiences you want to
00:03:36
share those with people right you want
00:03:37
to share them that aren't just your
00:03:38
family so there was probably a little
00:03:40
bit of sadness and probably a little bit
00:03:41
of um avoidance in that in that kind of
00:03:44
time of my life and um yeah they're
00:03:48
probably all coming home to roost I was
00:03:50
yeah feeling a bit sorry for myself
00:03:52
being like I said that age no house no
00:03:55
kind of assets not that they'd be all an
00:03:57
indoor but in my mind it was yeah it was
00:03:59
where it was so it was yeah a little bit
00:04:02
of courage and I'd like to say a little
00:04:05
bit of nouse or a sense from from Steph
00:04:08
that something was up and then we had a
00:04:09
really you know challenging conversation
00:04:12
at a cafe with another one of our good
00:04:14
friends a good supporter of the podcast
00:04:15
gav Douglas around what's going on and
00:04:18
and you know have you thought about
00:04:20
doing anything silly and I had at that
00:04:22
stage thought about you know maybe the
00:04:24
world would be a better place if I kind
00:04:25
of wasn't around in it and yeah it's a
00:04:28
hard conversation to have with a mate
00:04:30
it's a hard conversation to to have on a
00:04:32
microphone and it's a confronting one to
00:04:34
throw it out to the world for them to
00:04:37
kind of consume and the shame and and
00:04:38
fear of judgment and what that means for
00:04:41
you as a person but the overwhelming
00:04:44
response to anything that I think either
00:04:46
of us have ever thrown out there has
00:04:48
been one of ARA and one of love coming
00:04:50
back and understanding and acceptance of
00:04:52
of those things so that's a really
00:04:56
powerful um Foundation to kind of launch
00:04:59
from and yeah I am having a great year
00:05:01
it's going it's going it's going it's
00:05:03
going really good and do do do what what
00:05:06
oh you you just had a little twinkle in
00:05:08
your ey like a relationship thing you
00:05:09
mean or all this you think is like
00:05:12
largely as a result of the um
00:05:14
non-drinking yeah I think so I think
00:05:16
it's definitely like yeah there's [ __ ]
00:05:17
times where you've got to sit with the
00:05:19
feeling of whatever you're feeling and
00:05:20
go [ __ ] I I really have to unpack why
00:05:22
I'm feeling this way or why I'm reacting
00:05:24
to this situation but it's a lot for me
00:05:28
not saying it's the same for everybody
00:05:29
for a
00:05:33
way and comfortable in your own about
00:05:36
who kind who you are and what you're
00:05:37
about because [ __ ] you are who you are
00:05:40
at the end of the day um yeah yeah I
00:05:42
heard heard a podcast that um a podcast
00:05:44
I really like called a Diary of a CEO
00:05:46
you guys are familiar with that one much
00:05:48
and um steo from Jackass was on there
00:05:49
and he talked about um you know the
00:05:51
disease of alcoholism and he goes any
00:05:53
disease you have your goal is generally
00:05:56
to get back to the person you were
00:05:57
before like meaning say cancer for
00:05:59
example example you just want to get
00:06:00
back to where you were he said like um
00:06:02
the disease of like alcoholism or drug
00:06:04
addiction it's the only disease where
00:06:06
when you give it up your life will be
00:06:08
better yeah I thought oh that is a that
00:06:11
is a great way of looking at it so was
00:06:12
it kind of an intervention like a like
00:06:15
casually like a an intervention [ __ ]
00:06:18
Steve that must have taken a lot of
00:06:19
balls on your part it was a checkup it
00:06:23
was you know you know when things uh are
00:06:27
a bit off and you a sense that they're
00:06:30
more serious than what's been LED on and
00:06:33
I I felt like it needed a really clear
00:06:36
question um to get to to to get to what
00:06:40
the [ __ ] is like you know when when Shay
00:06:42
was in this dark dark
00:06:44
space he was he was shielding how bad it
00:06:48
was and it wasn't until I asked you know
00:06:51
are you considering doing something
00:06:53
silly or whatever it was that it opened
00:06:56
this this chat up and man like yeah it
00:07:01
send us on a bit of a ride like we were
00:07:04
I don't know how much you want to talk
00:07:05
about it but we were booking shrinks and
00:07:07
we were like talking to your brother and
00:07:10
like there was this whole
00:07:13
thing and I like to think it was a
00:07:15
really cool thing like there was a group
00:07:18
of us a group of us best mates and we
00:07:20
all came together and we're like [ __ ]
00:07:23
we're a bit worried about sh here like
00:07:25
what are we going to do and that
00:07:27
community that came around you
00:07:31
F that's um I mean it's it's it's a big
00:07:35
um I feel like it's a big friendship
00:07:37
risk a like he could have taken it the
00:07:38
wrong way and um yeah stormed out or
00:07:41
then just
00:07:42
been um aloof with you moving forward
00:07:45
with the information that he shares with
00:07:48
you for our friendship was tighter than
00:07:50
that it was never going to go to there
00:07:52
it was it was always going to be this
00:07:55
just means we have to address what's
00:07:56
going on um this just means we actually
00:07:59
have to fa face this front on and yeah
00:08:04
just [ __ ] hug the big guy and and
00:08:06
let's get him through it which is why
00:08:08
I'm so emotional it's just
00:08:09
because you don't often reflect on well
00:08:12
we've never reflected on it until now
00:08:15
like really like the conversation
00:08:16
happened we were in a
00:08:18
cafe surface level spoken about it maybe
00:08:21
since then I don't think I've ever
00:08:22
spoken to Gavin about it ever since no
00:08:25
um yeah so you're kind of you just yeah
00:08:27
you brush over it and you kind of move
00:08:28
on yeah I mean what are what are your
00:08:30
Recollections of it uh not not that same
00:08:33
level of detail I I don't even I I can't
00:08:35
now when you mention it like I do
00:08:36
remember that you you someone contacted
00:08:38
my brother cuz weirdly I got a phone
00:08:40
call out of the blue like just asking
00:08:42
how I was um which which doesn't always
00:08:46
or hadn't always happened how how did
00:08:47
you reply I I I'd probably be like yeah
00:08:50
no all good yeah that's probably that
00:08:52
was that's probably my default or make a
00:08:54
gag or something like that but um yeah I
00:08:57
like I I I maybe didn't realize that it
00:09:00
was so obvious or Apparent from the
00:09:02
outside um yeah it had been it was
00:09:05
probably on the tail end of quite a
00:09:06
challenging time where I was I was up in
00:09:08
papugi for two years working on a
00:09:09
project which really pushed me to my
00:09:11
limit um every which way you could
00:09:14
imagine so it um I was maybe just in a
00:09:17
bit of a blur at that stage I don't
00:09:19
remember really when I came maybe came
00:09:22
out of it I don't know but but then like
00:09:25
that was even before the drinking
00:09:26
stopped so I think we had that situation
00:09:28
and then
00:09:29
carried on boozing you know for a while
00:09:31
and then the boozing finished
00:09:34
2019 yeah so there was a separate 2020
00:09:38
conversation right like that wasn't oh
00:09:40
I'm getting them confused okay so when
00:09:42
did this one happen uh that would have
00:09:44
been
00:09:45
2018 yeah maybe maybe before thecast
00:09:48
started the podcast and then the
00:09:49
drinking conversation was was a separate
00:09:51
one um it had just annoy it had just
00:09:55
annoyed me to be honest cuz
00:09:56
Shay for anyone listening to this like
00:09:59
Shay is the most charismatic man in the
00:10:01
room like he comes in he makes everyone
00:10:03
feel comfortable he's the life of the
00:10:05
party but after a few beers he would
00:10:08
just get sloppy and he would get I
00:10:11
wouldn't like hanging out with him after
00:10:12
he'd maybe like one beer fine two beers
00:10:15
okay and after that I was just like mate
00:10:17
I actually don't like hanging out with
00:10:18
you when you've been drinking because
00:10:20
what do you mean what do you mean sloppy
00:10:21
like a like a spit talker pisty just
00:10:24
pasty and just like I'm very clever like
00:10:27
very witty and very CL
00:10:30
very good level of gags but then like
00:10:33
but like a really seedy undertone to the
00:10:35
gags you sure you're not in the coke
00:10:37
something someone on the coke would say
00:10:39
very very good yeah it was you know
00:10:42
there was a little bit of everything but
00:10:43
you know it was um it was yeah I I like
00:10:46
I could recognize that behavior and um
00:10:49
yeah it was it was just picking up the
00:10:51
pieces in the next morning as well and
00:10:52
being like [ __ ] it was like a broken
00:10:54
record conversation of like H I'm like
00:10:57
I'm here again but it was conversations
00:10:58
were off in my kind of own head and I do
00:11:00
remember vividly that that first
00:11:02
instance that first flare up where he
00:11:04
was having a pop at me and I didn't like
00:11:05
it and I think I didn't like it because
00:11:07
I knew it was no well no one no one's
00:11:09
going to like it are they no but I think
00:11:11
also it ate away because I knew he was
00:11:13
right and it was like [ __ ] I just I
00:11:16
remember saying like you're just not
00:11:18
like a [ __ ] weird
00:11:20
therapy that's great I appreciate you're
00:11:22
not you're not living up to your
00:11:23
potential like you've got so much
00:11:25
potential like you starting to fulfill
00:11:27
your potential starting to back then you
00:11:30
were in some [ __ ] shitty job and
00:11:32
you're pissed up and I was like man
00:11:33
you've got so much to give [ __ ] cut
00:11:35
the booze out like let's get this get
00:11:38
this train back on the tracks [ __ ]
00:11:40
that's nice that's the greatest gift you
00:11:43
can give someone as a friend eh like
00:11:45
have the courage to have that
00:11:45
conversation it'd be much easier just to
00:11:47
bite your tongue and not have it but I
00:11:49
had I mean I I had bit my tongue for a
00:11:52
long time and I think that was the
00:11:53
culmination like his tongue was raw
00:11:57
yeah say man
00:12:00
fam Sam you need to stop drinking but
00:12:02
it's a weird it's a weird relationship
00:12:04
with boo because for so long we had also
00:12:06
championed it like we used to go to
00:12:08
these labor weekend tournaments where
00:12:10
Shay would be doing 16 funnels on the
00:12:12
sideline and we'd all be chanting shus
00:12:14
shame like he was the hero because he
00:12:16
could sink so much piss so it's kind of
00:12:19
yeah and that gives you this weird
00:12:20
gratitude like gratification kind of
00:12:22
cycle as well that's a bege of Honor
00:12:24
yeah it was it was a thing you know oh
00:12:26
sh he can he can hold us piss and
00:12:28
certain name here he can hold his piss
00:12:30
it was it it wasn't and probably still
00:12:31
is I guess a be Javan I don't know I
00:12:33
feel like the conversation's changed but
00:12:35
then I'm old as [ __ ] now so if I go Ahad
00:12:37
and say I don't want to drink I don't
00:12:38
have anyone calling me a [ __ ] yeah yeah
00:12:41
yeah it's an age thing that was mid 20s
00:12:43
late 20s like you can't be doing that
00:12:44
when you I still I still I still Frank
00:12:48
the Tank just not not the same doing a
00:12:49
doing a power raid out of a shoe
00:12:51
is oh that's neat that's really really
00:12:54
special but like I think it's um it's
00:12:57
definitely like I think it's an example
00:12:59
as well for friendships that that we can
00:13:01
have that level of directness and
00:13:04
honesty um in conversation and it's
00:13:07
probably been honed in this kind of
00:13:09
environment where we do have license to
00:13:12
ask challenging questions to people um
00:13:15
and then to take that out of this
00:13:17
environment into kind of everyday life
00:13:19
as a as a skill as well yeah yeah yeah
00:13:22
yeah I'd agree I um yeah I've been doing
00:13:25
it a lot less lot a lot shorter time
00:13:27
than what you guys have but um one I've
00:13:29
realized is that everyone's got a [ __ ]
00:13:30
going on yeah absolutely everyone and
00:13:32
when you when you realize that it's
00:13:33
actually quite comforting it's like oh
00:13:35
okay I'm I'm not special I'm not alone
00:13:37
it's just everyone's got [ __ ] going on
00:13:39
even people that you wouldn't even
00:13:40
expect absolutely which I think that's
00:13:41
cool it's a broken record as well but
00:13:43
you know like if by listening or
00:13:46
comparing yourself if there is one
00:13:48
person out there it's a [ __ ] cliche
00:13:50
it winds me up but if there is one
00:13:52
person out there that take some Solace
00:13:54
and can avoid the feelings that you felt
00:13:56
yourself in that moment then that's
00:13:57
[ __ ] worth it yeah that's worth the
00:13:59
the embarrassment or kind of the uncom
00:14:02
discomfort of um being in that space or
00:14:04
having that conversation or facing up to
00:14:07
that reality really is yeah and how's
00:14:09
your mental health now you good yeah I'm
00:14:11
really good yeah I am really good it's
00:14:13
um yeah it's it's it's uh I really enjoy
00:14:17
the ability to do what we do and I why I
00:14:22
find it quite hard to nail down like a
00:14:24
favorite episode is because when I I
00:14:25
listen back to everything that we do
00:14:28
like from welcome to between two beers
00:14:30
to the outros that I tend to to throw
00:14:32
together that's not a dig at you yeah I
00:14:36
don't but like they just they're just
00:14:38
packed with little nuggets of wisdom and
00:14:41
they're amazing gifts that we've been
00:14:44
privy to that yeah they just they they
00:14:47
do all blend into one but I always find
00:14:49
there's some little piece that I can
00:14:51
pull from whoever we've spoken to that I
00:14:53
can adapt and and relate to whatever I'm
00:14:56
going through or feeling or or make
00:14:57
sense of at that moment it's [ __ ]
00:14:59
awesome so yeah really good really good
00:15:02
um really good heat
00:15:04
space right here right
00:15:07
[Music]
00:15:14
now
