00:00:00
Andrew Fagen welcome to my podcast great
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to be here Dom wonderful to see you
00:00:04
again oh oh handshake this um I don't
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know what to expect I I I I do think
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it's going to be chaotic though like
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you've come in here with your own chair
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to sit on of course um what a flag to
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hang behind you you can't trust normal
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chairs you can a model boat what's the
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model boat for well this is a a well
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this is an important part of my life um
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this is the way you teach people to sale
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right and uh yeah at a primary level so
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this is a a toy Sailing Boat that was um
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that I was involved with a manufacturer
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of and made and designed every little
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[ __ ] aspect of it it's it's beautiful
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but why do we need that as a prop for
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the podcast because I think it's
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important that um we introduce people to
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the concert with sailing at an early age
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okay
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and or a late age right well I um I
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would have exp and you've got a a bell
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here and um some spray the Bell is here
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in order to stop you I'll ring the bell
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if you're going too private okay I can't
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go private can't become public just like
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that okay yeah you you have been um very
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private over the years he sorry you've
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been very private over the years is that
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sort of by Design I try my best yeah
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can't promise
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anything well it's um it's great to have
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you here we can be as public or as
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private is what you want but for me for
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me this is one of those um kind of a
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pinch myself moment um because you're in
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a a band in the 1980s I I know I know
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you're you're a very big forward thinker
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and I think you have a thing called
00:01:37
recency bias where your favorite bit of
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work is what you've done most most would
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that be fair to say absolutely yeah yeah
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I feel the same with um the podcast as
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well the most recent episode I've done
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is always my most favorite and I think
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it's having a growth mindset you want to
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look forward rather than back but a big
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part of the Andrew Fagan story is this
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band that you were in in the 1980s um
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maybe it's a bigger part of the story
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for me than for you because
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I was um I'm sure other people say this
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but I was unequivocally your number one
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fan like from the ages of maybe 11 to 14
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15 what made you do that Dominic it was
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the songs it was the the essence of you
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as the front person um was just I don't
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know for some reason it just resonated
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with me actually I've got a little bit
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of sh tell of my own first of all this
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poster here oh cool poster for your
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album culprit and the King which is
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probably my favorite mockers album now I
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was staying at my uncle and Auntie's
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place um in Levin and you were playing
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at the Levin hotel at the Oxford yeah
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yeah the Oxford Hotel yeah and um I rode
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my bike in the next morning to hopefully
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get my post signed you had already taken
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off to Wellington for the next gig but
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the rest of the band was there so the
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rest of the band signed it this would
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have been 1985
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1986 um the only signature it's missing
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is Andrew Fagan so maybe today will be
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you want me to do it now we do it we do
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it at the end but my my recollection of
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that time um is so I think the chronicle
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was in chatting to the band at the time
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doing a thing for the local newspaper
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yeah and um Steve your late drummer and
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we'll get to him later um he saw me this
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shy awkward uh 12 13y old boy with gray
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trait pants on buck teeth acne and he
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motioned me in and he could not have
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been kinder to this weird kid um and
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when I got the news that he had taken
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his own life I was I even though I
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didn't know him apart from this Brief
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Encounter I was absolutely devastated as
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we all were yeah so that uh yeah it's
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interesting how all the some of the
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signatures are blurred out it hasn't it
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hasn't like us it hasn't aged
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well so yeah you're you're ban the
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marckus massive band I think it's
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probably fair to say from a broader
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perspective the the biggest song you had
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was one called Forever Tuesday morning
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that would have been the the signature
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song that's the one that that we've been
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hung on here and one Black Friday and
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swear it's true but um going back to to
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Levin uh that night we played at the
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Oxford I I I left early because my
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father had died um when we were in to
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wronger on that tour and uh I had to get
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back to Wellington for the funeral which
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was organized for the gig we were
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playing in Wellington that night so
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that's why I missed you yeah well no
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that's okay because we caught up again
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you doing a radio interview in um
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paliston North in April ' 87 and I saw
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you then was it 2xs or 2xs yeah yeah
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yeah April April 87 you got itome did
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you have any like groupies or was it
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just like weird awkward kids like me
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that didn't know how they belonged in
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the world well it depends on how you um
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how you define a groupy yeah like you I
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guess it's a bit of give and take there
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there's two aspects to being a groupy
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someone that's um who's enamored with
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what you do and then the groupy is more
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of a like it's a bit difficult isn't it
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i' different I'd go um I'd make a
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differentiation between groupy and fan
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you know like groupy is kind of like I
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think there sexual like connotations
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with groupy you did did you have those
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sort of groupies or were you just too
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unusual yeah and in terms of in terms of
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like front people at the
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time you know you you yeah you wore
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fishnet you this was the mid 80s you had
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black fingernail polish you know you the
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the theatrics that you've bought today
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for the podcast as a man in your 60s um
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this was you in your 20s as well you
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just had this this sort of this
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quirkiness this uniqueness what's
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changed Dominic really as an individual
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um do you rub off those sharp edges as
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you get older or do do you just remain
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the same and you know I'm just still
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being me really yeah I know I like that
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when you turned up today with a bag of
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props I thought this is the most Andre
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Fagen thing ever are you comfortable on
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that still though like I I like these
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big blue cheers because they're
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comfortable for a long form conversation
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that
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[Music]
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that I feel better on my knees Dominic
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that's the way I feel more candid now
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you get better answers out of me okay
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all right I'll tell the truth now okay
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well first of all let's go way back so
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you're born in 1962 in
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Wellington um so what were the what were
00:06:22
the early early years um like like your
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your style and your music B boy so I'm
00:06:28
from Wellington Island Bay uh you know
00:06:31
did my 20 years there and it was it was
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wonderful I'm a fan of music you know so
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um I remember I remember hearing uh what
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was it um Rod Stewart playing at
00:06:46
Athletic Park when athletic Athletic
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Park still existed and hearing um the
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the big mandolin solo of uh Maggie
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May wafting down on the gale force
00:06:58
Northwest winds and thinking yeah this
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is cool like what music was just so
00:07:03
enchanting and I've never stopped being
00:07:05
a fan really and in those days for me it
00:07:08
was punk rock was the big one you know
00:07:10
people coming through um I just
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gravitated towards live music really and
00:07:17
whether that was just in a practice room
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like here right now or uh or you know
00:07:22
going and seeing a band underage venues
00:07:25
like the last resort and The Rock
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theater didn't have licenses so I could
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get in when I was 16 177 so yeah so
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really just a fan of music and that's
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what sort of got me got me stuck in at
00:07:37
an early age did did you have aspir
00:07:40
aspirations to do it as like a career
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it's hard to imagine it's a pathway to
00:07:43
an actual career at that point no well
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it the word career didn't come into the
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vocabulary it was more something that I
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was just passionate about doing I just
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really wanted to do it you know so I I
00:07:53
stayed in Wellington and did a a degree
00:07:55
in um public administration political
00:07:57
science at Victoria but while I was
00:08:00
doing that I was running the band as
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well and the main ambition was to be
00:08:04
like an Oakland band because we were
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from Wellington and all these Oakland
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bands used to turn up all the time um
00:08:09
you know with the Metropolitan rental
00:08:11
van and the and the PA and the lights
00:08:13
and and they're just on tour and it just
00:08:16
seemed to me like the most wonderful
00:08:18
existence you could possibly imagine to
00:08:19
go from one one town to the next playing
00:08:22
your own you know music every night that
00:08:25
was my whole focus and was it did it
00:08:28
live up to the expectation of what you
00:08:30
thought it would be sort of sort of did
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uh yeah yeah there's lots of different
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permutations of expectations I guess you
00:08:38
know so like to start with it was quite
00:08:41
a struggle to get to Oakland and get in
00:08:44
into that um what was the then the Hub
00:08:47
of of uh how you become popular because
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you know anyone who writes songs is just
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looking for an audience you know you
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want you know the difference between
00:08:59
writing songs in priv well you write
00:09:01
them in private but the difference
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between having songs ignite and go
00:09:06
public as an audience you know so like
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that was always the aspiration and in
00:09:12
those days being from Wellington it was
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like yeah we got to go to Oakland you
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know there was no internet you know
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there was no mobile phones it was like
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you go to Oakland in order to get um get
00:09:24
um popular hopefully yeah that's another
00:09:27
speaking of no mobile phones that's an
00:09:29
another thing I want to ask about you so
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when you're at the the the peak absolute
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peak of your Fame like the height of the
00:09:34
mockers biggest band in New Zealand 85
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yeah you you were living on a you were
00:09:39
living on a boat then on the mud flaps
00:09:40
of Cox's Bay so no landline how did
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anyone ever get you must have been
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impossible to do business with how did
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how did anyone track you down I remember
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the manager the manager used to come
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down at high tide and wave to me from
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the from the wall that's still there
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that used to have a sign saying um don't
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swim here because of sewage
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and and still should have um he just
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used to turn up and wave to me but you
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know we had regular you know meetings
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yeah yeah so like but it was all
00:10:08
aspirational you know and it's was
00:10:10
exciting when you're when you're
00:10:12
21 it seems if you see the progression
00:10:15
of um the the mocker career in your
00:10:17
albums it goes from sort of punk punkish
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to pop and then pure pop it seems to get
00:10:23
poppier as it goes along would that be a
00:10:24
fear thing to say absolutely I think it
00:10:27
was also
00:10:32
well not really I mean it was it was
00:10:37
just songwriting man you're writing
00:10:39
songs you know and like and that's what
00:10:41
we like doing we just like I just still
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do it I still like writing songs you
00:10:45
know where's the bag with this with the
00:10:47
latest
00:10:48
album yeah you know and like so we were
00:10:51
just writing songs but without being
00:10:54
aware of it I guess we were evolving
00:10:56
from punk rock so my first band was the
00:10:58
ambitious vegetables at rongo college
00:11:01
and that was all about me not really
00:11:03
being able to sing but being an
00:11:05
enthusiastic person who jumped around
00:11:07
and shouted you know and then it was
00:11:09
kind of like as a personal progression
00:11:10
in my own mind of you know singing
00:11:13
Melodies which um Gareth Curtis was so
00:11:16
wonderful at producing at the time and
00:11:19
just you know trying to to be more
00:11:22
melodic and so I guess things did you
00:11:25
evolve into What Might Have Been
00:11:27
perceived as a more commercial um thing
00:11:30
or you know more pop poppy but it was
00:11:33
also it was ALS yeah it was
00:11:36
subconscious as well as being on purpose
00:11:38
you know they are they're great pop
00:11:40
songs though way they're
00:11:41
incredible what any of those songs that
00:11:44
you still sort of feel like an
00:11:46
attachment with now absolutely um all of
00:11:49
them like um you came to the gig we
00:11:51
played the our last mockers reunion tour
00:11:54
thing only a few months ago um phone
00:11:56
call at midnight love it a Winter's
00:11:58
taale
00:12:00
um yeah another boring day in the Amazon
00:12:03
I think think we really got it right
00:12:05
with that song Maybe could have done
00:12:06
with a a key change no it does have a
00:12:08
key change so yes so the ones that
00:12:11
you're most um proud of or fond of now
00:12:13
30 years 40 years on whatever it is are
00:12:15
the are the less commercially successful
00:12:17
ones not really I thought they were um
00:12:21
no but I mean like the big three you
00:12:22
mentioned before like forever Tuesday
00:12:24
morning one Black Friday and swear it's
00:12:25
true yeah yeah well yeah absolutely so
00:12:27
songs that could have been more than
00:12:29
they were if they'd been highlighted as
00:12:31
a single and like pushed out onto radio
00:12:33
at the time cuz that's the way the
00:12:35
industry worked you know um yeah it's it
00:12:39
wasn't so compartmentalized as it is
00:12:42
now for every Tuesday morning it's it's
00:12:45
a great pop song He it's great was it
00:12:48
about anyone in particular or was it
00:12:49
just like a bunch of words
00:12:52
or you know you know what I mean I know
00:12:55
exactly what's your songwriting process
00:13:01
is that too is that too personal it's
00:13:03
gone too far cut
00:13:07
cut oh right I got I need some holy
00:13:11
water why did you call this herpes juice
00:13:13
yeah know you I went to I saw you at a
00:13:15
show once and you were squirting into
00:13:16
the crowd and you said it was herpes
00:13:17
juice oh wow I lost lost my
00:13:20
focus yeah no no all good no come back
00:13:23
Tuesday yeah it was it was a um hybrid
00:13:25
song really you know big hybrid song
00:13:30
let's focus on the mic big hybrid song
00:13:34
and yeah it was just another song like
00:13:37
there were so many other songs that we
00:13:39
wrote um that we hoped would be popular
00:13:42
that would find an audience and take us
00:13:44
from playing to 50 people in Timaru on a
00:13:49
Wednesday night to finding an audience
00:13:52
you know it was
00:13:54
so so either minut or for every Tuesday
00:13:57
morning I mean there l there's lots of
00:14:00
aspects to it I mean sitting with Tim in
00:14:03
his parents'
00:14:04
bedroom making up the the middle bit you
00:14:08
know bored shitless lying on the bed
00:14:11
going okay give us some chords and then
00:14:13
making up a good singing tune over what
00:14:14
he came up with and he did a great job
00:14:17
um so it's like music first and then the
00:14:19
words yeah always for me yeah yeah to me
00:14:22
the most important thing is the music
00:14:23
like the stuff I listen to that moves me
00:14:26
is is the melody it's it's well just
00:14:28
anything it's the music but it's not the
00:14:30
words I mean words are just like you
00:14:33
know I mean not I'm not disregarding my
00:14:35
own you know um cap capability to write
00:14:40
words but um for me the it's what really
00:14:43
lifts people is is a tune you know
00:14:47
Thunder feel the
00:14:48
thunder lightning then it's thunder
00:14:51
thunder Imagine Dragons yeah it's a
00:14:53
great it's a great one um oh and you you
00:14:57
guys another one of your big songs was
00:14:59
one Black Friday that was um that came
00:15:01
out as a result of the the Queen Street
00:15:03
riots that's right which uh um end of is
00:15:06
it 40 years this year 1984 no I'm only
00:15:09
12 so you know December 1984 so what
00:15:12
what was it take us back I was uh was in
00:15:14
the end of school year
00:15:18
concert um what was that was that end of
00:15:21
no well for the mockers that we were on
00:15:22
tour we've been on a big six We Tour the
00:15:24
classic provincial New Zealand tour and
00:15:27
we were tired as the last we played the
00:15:29
night before was at the Woodburn Air
00:15:31
Force Base where alcohol was heavily sub
00:15:34
subsidized for the for for the locals
00:15:37
and we embed so like you know we they
00:15:40
flew us straight back to Oakland and we
00:15:42
had this next gig so for us the gigs
00:15:44
were just gigs we were just doing what
00:15:45
we did and there was and you know you do
00:15:48
the same thing you do um with no
00:15:50
expectations from an audience but so
00:15:52
that was our last gig for the tour that
00:15:54
was pretty unusual um it was pretty
00:15:57
unusual to be have so many people in a
00:16:00
public space you know so was you guys
00:16:03
herbs and Dave doin and de smash were
00:16:07
opening yeah yeah dobin was tra trading
00:16:09
us D smash
00:16:11
um I can't remember whether herbs played
00:16:14
before us or not but it was just there
00:16:17
was just a vibe there that um for the
00:16:21
majority of
00:16:22
people uh that seemed to me to be there
00:16:25
for herbs they didn't really like us you
00:16:28
know like we were too fast and like sort
00:16:30
of punk even though we were by then we'
00:16:32
evolved in quite a new wave poppy sort
00:16:34
of band we were still too sort of punk
00:16:37
rock like maybe you were to Alternative
00:16:40
as well with your with your capes and
00:16:42
your nail polish and showers man yeah
00:16:45
yeah but but I think it was more the
00:16:47
yeah I think it was more the the speed
00:16:49
of the songs to be honest when you
00:16:51
actually technically look at what was
00:16:52
going on and then then we had like big
00:16:54
brown beer bottles landing on stage and
00:16:56
and they were empty that obviously been
00:16:58
drank and there was glass breaking and
00:17:00
and kind of looked like okay so there's
00:17:02
another one of these gos where you're
00:17:03
not that popular but who gives a [ __ ]
00:17:05
cuz I've done lots of those before you
00:17:07
know
00:17:09
[ __ ] you you you were you saying that to
00:17:11
the crowd were you chatting back yeah
00:17:14
yeah like yeah given a a a stimulating
00:17:17
environment I'll give as good as what
00:17:19
I've been given you know as you do that
00:17:23
that sounds terrifying though being
00:17:24
being on a stage having those the
00:17:25
bottles that you're talking about the
00:17:27
750 mil like crate bottles things
00:17:29
throwing at you yeah I didn't say
00:17:31
[ __ ] but but I did kind of imply that I
00:17:34
don't like you you know I can't remember
00:17:37
the details unless someone had a video
00:17:38
yeah you know and like these days it' be
00:17:40
printed forever wouldn't it yeah it' be
00:17:42
all over Tik Tok so so you so you
00:17:43
finished your set the concert keeps
00:17:45
going yeah it was Dave Dobbin got in
00:17:47
legal trouble a for inciting violence
00:17:49
yeah well that should have been me
00:17:52
but cuz I had a real go at them yeah not
00:17:55
knowing who they were but just the the
00:17:57
attitude didn't didn't appeal to me you
00:17:59
know but having said that soon as soon
00:18:01
as we finished um I was tired right we
00:18:04
were just we were so tired from a six We
00:18:06
Tour and I walked up Queen Street with
00:18:09
my you know ex Army slus Surplus uh kit
00:18:14
bag and caught a bus from kroad to Cox's
00:18:17
Bay and went down to see my boat I was
00:18:19
living on that I hadn't seen for 6 weeks
00:18:21
and uh I missed the whole thing missed
00:18:23
the whole ride but so so you never felt
00:18:26
in danger or like there was a threat to
00:18:28
your SA you are no I left before
00:18:30
everyone started surging in around the
00:18:32
back and stuff I literally wanted to get
00:18:34
back to my boat ASAP couldn't [ __ ] you
00:18:37
know Dave you know great songs at the
00:18:39
time you
00:18:40
know but no need to stick around you're
00:18:42
tired yeah yeah man I just wanted to get
00:18:44
back and see if my boat was still where
00:18:46
I anchored it got this back you know and
00:18:48
anchoring is not good like it's not like
00:18:50
a moing it's it's quite funny the um the
00:18:53
jaer position I guess between you know
00:18:55
you being this front P this this um you
00:18:58
know showman on stage uh you're very
00:19:01
flam flamboyant and engaging to watch
00:19:03
and also being this guy that just likes
00:19:04
being on your own and boats just that's
00:19:07
human nature isn't it Dom like you with
00:19:09
your running man you know yeah but R
00:19:13
running gives me a lot less Solitude
00:19:14
time than what I suppose being on a boat
00:19:16
does do you have headphones on yeah yeah
00:19:19
most of the time okay so you're still
00:19:20
engaging with Humanity Yeah Yeah well
00:19:23
yeah okay so yep point
00:19:26
taken cut that one C that out [ __ ] I'm
00:19:30
out stress so um what's that is that
00:19:34
just to call yourself down the yeah man
00:19:36
yeah yeah well yeah you I I wouldn't
00:19:37
have called it heres water I used call
00:19:38
it holy water you know holy water but in
00:19:41
a way maybe it is cuz it's it's fresh
00:19:43
water yeah fresh water is good oh so so
00:19:46
the first you knew like about the Queen
00:19:48
Street rights so I guess the next day
00:19:49
when you read in the paper it wasn't
00:19:51
even read in the paper what what I can't
00:19:53
remember what was it in those days in
00:19:55
1984 83 um where would you get your
00:19:59
information on the radio would have been
00:20:01
like a News Bulletin and yeah so yeah
00:20:05
and I missed all of
00:20:06
that yeah and then um so the song that
00:20:09
came out as a result of that uh one
00:20:10
Black Friday which funnily enough where
00:20:12
we're sitting right now the music video
00:20:14
which is amazing was recorded just over
00:20:16
the road absolutely yeah that was when
00:20:18
the um the non-politically correct uh uh
00:20:23
circus was there yeah with animals and
00:20:25
yeah real animals that was a great video
00:20:27
yeah yeah and and I walked all the way
00:20:29
from Cox's Bay there's a moment where
00:20:32
you'll see my gun boots in the
00:20:34
shop if you
00:20:37
watch that's so so what was the uh what
00:20:40
was the process of writing that song
00:20:42
well that was the same working with Gary
00:20:43
and then just making up stuff to um
00:20:46
stuff that that was relevant to me at
00:20:48
the time you know so as a songwriter
00:20:51
excuse
00:20:52
me you you you're not try you know I'm
00:20:56
not trying to think of things that will
00:20:57
be good lyrics but they just come to me
00:20:59
anyway you know it's just like poems and
00:21:03
everything just comes along and then you
00:21:06
then you feel that it's worthwhile um
00:21:09
documenting it and lots of people come
00:21:11
up with stuff I know every day but they
00:21:13
don't bother documenting it so it's all
00:21:16
about documenting it and whether it
00:21:18
takes the form of a song lyric or a poem
00:21:22
or some you know a chapter heading in a
00:21:24
book it's just like you know from my
00:21:27
perspective that's that's the way my
00:21:29
brain works yeah you you've even had a
00:21:31
book of poetry but when when you write a
00:21:33
poem how do you know if it's a good poem
00:21:35
or or not like you know what I mean up
00:21:37
to you it's up to you it's up to you
00:21:39
you've got to self-edit it yourself you
00:21:41
you got to work out whether youth um how
00:21:44
like poems for me is all about um coming
00:21:47
up with something really concise very
00:21:49
concise writing um very different to
00:21:52
writing lyrics for songs because for me
00:21:54
it's always Melody comes first and then
00:21:56
you're grafting in words into um into a
00:22:01
Melody that will fit the emotion of the
00:22:03
song So poems are very different poems
00:22:06
are like to me um I mean it's subjective
00:22:09
[ __ ] man you know it's totally
00:22:11
subjective but for me it's kind of what
00:22:13
I think is a good poem there's there's a
00:22:16
p you you so you're so um
00:22:28
like that no you wanted you wanted the
00:22:30
the chair moved out we rearranged the
00:22:32
whole set for you yeah I'll go back I'm
00:22:34
indulging cut that BT out Jing okay um
00:22:39
go dig deeper yeah so um yeah so um Ste
00:22:42
Steve Thor um your drummer who who died
00:22:45
in 1986 I remember being like I I was 13
00:22:47
at the time I was really affected by
00:22:48
this I think I read about in the Sunday
00:22:50
news or the truth um because he he took
00:22:52
his own life and this was at a time
00:22:54
where no one talked about mental health
00:22:56
and uh you didn't even really sort of
00:22:59
hear about you know suicide the way the
00:23:01
way you do now um what what are your
00:23:03
Recollections of that time did he did he
00:23:05
have like you know was he depressed did
00:23:07
he have mental health issues like
00:23:10
obviously leading up to
00:23:12
that
00:23:14
cut okay man
00:23:18
so yeah so hard to read um I wasn't in
00:23:22
Steve's
00:23:24
mind uh as a band we'd got to a point
00:23:28
where we were overp poopular what always
00:23:31
comes to mind would be someone like
00:23:33
peing man a room that Echoes you know um
00:23:37
you get your moment where everyone knows
00:23:38
who you are but you can't keep
00:23:43
touring in New Zealand and earn money
00:23:48
and and that's your only life because
00:23:50
there aren't enough people you know yeah
00:23:52
especially then and now you know uh if
00:23:55
if we had 60 million people like the UK
00:23:59
then you could keep touring and everyone
00:24:01
would get paid and life would be great
00:24:03
um so the role play of being in a band
00:24:06
that's
00:24:07
popular uh was
00:24:11
totally uh short you know you you're
00:24:16
there and so everyone knows who you are
00:24:19
and you're popular but hey you got no
00:24:22
money you know it's just this it's I
00:24:25
guess it's like being a big band on the
00:24:26
chadam islands somewhere you know what I
00:24:29
mean you know you just can't like the
00:24:31
only way we were earning money as a band
00:24:33
individually was by touring and playing
00:24:35
all the time and we just we peaked and
00:24:39
this is we're talking like
00:24:41
1985 86 so we couldn't just go back to
00:24:46
gbon which we'd been to two months
00:24:48
before and expect to get a good crowd
00:24:51
that would pay the bills and get
00:24:52
everyone paid and everyone remains you
00:24:55
know um in their own Mental Health good
00:24:58
space as you know being defined as Steve
00:25:01
the drummer you know so they had to go
00:25:04
and get jobs um you know I was living on
00:25:06
the smell of an oy rag on a boat um you
00:25:09
know so so I had very low
00:25:12
overheads um but for Steve and and Jeff
00:25:16
and Tim who was and everyone everyone
00:25:20
had to find some other way to earn a
00:25:22
living which was kind of perverse so
00:25:25
there's all sorts of other emotional
00:25:27
agendas that develop when your life is
00:25:30
like that you know um so I don't know
00:25:33
individually in his own mind where what
00:25:37
accumulated to create that poisonous
00:25:41
situation but it did yeah and I suppose
00:25:45
just a because of the time it was like
00:25:47
the 1980s it was wasn't like you'd sit
00:25:49
down with your band and go hey guys I'm
00:25:50
not doing well I need help it just
00:25:52
wasn't really a thing was it no well we
00:25:54
were like we'd also got a bit sick of
00:25:56
each other I think in all reality we
00:26:00
were all kind of living with each other
00:26:03
for so long we weren't sick of each
00:26:06
other but we were kind of like we we
00:26:08
enjoyed having time off from each other
00:26:11
excuse me because we because you're
00:26:14
always sitting in a van you're always
00:26:15
playing a gig you're always waiting to
00:26:17
play a gig you're always you know so we
00:26:19
sort of got to that point where there'
00:26:21
been a lot of that few years of that
00:26:23
where you get to the point where okay um
00:26:25
when we get downtime we'd actually don't
00:26:28
it's it's quite nice to be away from
00:26:30
each other so we missed that yeah there
00:26:33
was no you know group hugs going on yeah
00:26:36
well thanks for that that's a really
00:26:37
thoughtful answer well it's a truth from
00:26:40
my perspective but I still don't know
00:26:42
exactly where Steve got to that point
00:26:45
where he wanted to make that statement I
00:26:48
mean that's that's that's that's part of
00:26:50
committing suicide man you're making a
00:26:52
statement yeah or you're just in so much
00:26:54
pain and you're not sure how it's going
00:26:56
to end and you know you just want the
00:26:58
pain to stop but what sort of impact did
00:27:01
it have on on the rest of you guys like
00:27:03
being being so close to it we kind of
00:27:05
[ __ ] it all up really I mean that was
00:27:08
you know I mean that's that's that was
00:27:10
the end for me yeah how do you yeah how
00:27:12
do you carry on as life noral it's kind
00:27:15
of like whoa you know this is like
00:27:16
something that's really really really
00:27:18
major that's happened
00:27:20
so so it's like hey you know we we're on
00:27:25
the same Journey here and someone is
00:27:27
just a decided to detach from that
00:27:29
Journey so for me it was it was fairly
00:27:32
major
00:27:33
yeah
00:27:35
so did you guys make any money out of it
00:27:37
or not really not really enough to cover
00:27:39
cause not really but they were they were
00:27:42
really big songs and really successful
00:27:44
albums well they big tours as well know
00:27:47
you can go all sorts of places in terms
00:27:48
of management um let's not go
00:27:52
there but at the end of the day you're
00:27:54
dealing with a finite pool of people and
00:27:57
even you know know when you get a
00:28:00
platinum album what's that still 15,000
00:28:02
in New Zealand or maybe it's more now
00:28:04
but it's not a lot and that you know the
00:28:07
royalties from that doesn't it doesn't
00:28:10
change your life really you know it's
00:28:12
subsistence existence and also like I
00:28:16
say you're trying to earn money from
00:28:17
pring playing live and you're not really
00:28:21
you know you're not playing live enough
00:28:23
to big enough crowds to make it
00:28:26
worthwhile you know you know things have
00:28:28
changed now I mean with the internet if
00:28:31
you can go over but but only for a tiny
00:28:33
amount of people Benny and Lord I mean
00:28:36
who else I mean who else is going off
00:28:38
globally you that's that's yeah from
00:28:40
like the New Zealand perspective that
00:28:41
you're talking about the only example I
00:28:43
can really think of is probably 660 that
00:28:44
have like cracked New Zealand and
00:28:46
nothing Beyond New Zealand and have
00:28:47
probably made it financially viable but
00:28:49
I think most be in struggle well Dave
00:28:51
doin as well you know Dave made it like
00:28:53
and poor Dave should have been Global
00:28:56
you know you had some great songs were
00:28:59
you were you you close with them in the
00:29:00
' 80s it felt like there's a bunch of
00:29:01
bands that were not really no we like
00:29:04
same with the kns um Frid seven all
00:29:07
sorts of bands you're the next band on
00:29:09
the tour and everyone tells you when you
00:29:10
turn up and nap you oh they had a real
00:29:12
big night last night and then your not's
00:29:14
not quite as big as
00:29:17
theirs what about um what about the
00:29:19
dance exponents you know good on Jordan
00:29:21
yeah yeah we we we we traded blows with
00:29:24
Jordan for a while but um you know they
00:29:26
They carried on and and we're uh way
00:29:30
more successful as a uh comprehensive
00:29:33
Band stuck with the band name yeah
00:29:35
whereas I went solo did you notice yeah
00:29:39
yeah so it's what happened so you moved
00:29:40
over to to the UK did the mockers ever
00:29:42
actually break up or did you just sort
00:29:45
of like dissolve in in its own sort of
00:29:47
Natural Way well we traded as the
00:29:49
mockers in the UK for a while um but it
00:29:52
was difficult to actually um get
00:29:55
traction no management you know and so
00:29:58
we ended up playing those sort of of New
00:30:01
Zealand gigs you know go to the church
00:30:03
or Hammersmith or yeah yeah yeah which
00:30:06
wasn't what I was there for you know
00:30:08
we're trying to find an audience of of
00:30:10
people that lived in the UK as opposed
00:30:12
to new
00:30:13
zealanders um so so yeah we didn't
00:30:15
really break up but we sort of
00:30:19
just just dissol just dissolved it's
00:30:22
just like it ran its natural course I
00:30:24
guess it did that be disolve is not a
00:30:25
good word uh I likened it to climb into
00:30:29
the top of a hill with a machete and
00:30:31
then and but we didn't quite get to the
00:30:33
top you know so someone would find our
00:30:35
bones of as a band sort of just on some
00:30:38
track that's been overgrown didn't but
00:30:42
has it been nice for you like the last I
00:30:44
don't know four five six years whatever
00:30:45
it is doing some reunion shows getting
00:30:47
the getting the guys back
00:30:54
together set get him Luna get him my
00:30:57
dog's here get him
00:30:58
like she's not even paying attention
00:31:00
Savages
00:31:01
FR oh look she's going to look no all
00:31:05
good um that's been wonderful absolutely
00:31:07
um uh full of gratitude to actually have
00:31:10
the experience of of uh
00:31:13
rekindling all the pleasure that those
00:31:15
songs brought to us at the time you know
00:31:17
amazing amazing and also to see that
00:31:20
people uh that I don't know remember
00:31:23
some so many of the songs you know it's
00:31:25
it's it's cool it's been really good
00:31:28
been a total past life experience you
00:31:30
know yeah that must be um that must be
00:31:32
gratifying in a way if if if not a
00:31:34
little bit weird I remember um you I
00:31:36
chatting um over AER at the power
00:31:38
station when you did um your first
00:31:39
Reunion Show and I was rattling through
00:31:42
to you some of the songs um that weren't
00:31:44
on the set list that I thought it should
00:31:45
have been there that's right and uh you
00:31:47
looked you looked very uncomfortable by
00:31:50
my knowledge of Mock's history good on
00:31:52
you what other ones do you think
00:31:53
shouldn't have been should have been
00:31:54
played oh George Henry Swan Geor three
00:31:57
years 14
00:32:00
years you're a de of paradise um Henry
00:32:05
but his [ __ ] real name was Henry
00:32:07
Charles Swan I got it wrong
00:32:09
right uh what else our destiny from the
00:32:11
swe's true album was a great one there
00:32:13
so many good songs good on you yeah good
00:32:16
on you um all right so you moved to the
00:32:19
UK so you moved over there with um Karen
00:32:22
hey your wife and you were living on a
00:32:24
house boat yeah did that twice yeah
00:32:26
right so so so and hey um she's she's a
00:32:30
wonderful woman I I my dealings with her
00:32:32
have just been through like when our
00:32:33
paths crossed in radio but I always um I
00:32:35
always had nothing but mad respect for
00:32:37
her and when you guys got together so
00:32:39
you were like the the the you know the
00:32:42
pop Idol she was like the coolest check
00:32:44
on New Zealand TV on the show called
00:32:45
radio with pictures um you seemed like
00:32:48
an unlikely couple at the time I
00:32:51
guess here's Karen
00:32:53
here that's Luna no it's Karen isn't it
00:32:58
but um uh what was that like like living
00:33:01
on a boat those boats are quite small he
00:33:03
like I can't imagine and did you have
00:33:04
your kids on the boat or no was it just
00:33:06
yeah now we started um we just went over
00:33:08
there to escape from New Zealand in 1987
00:33:12
and we bought a boat it was called
00:33:14
moonfleet smuggling it was a 28t
00:33:16
mahogany plank thing and uh four years
00:33:19
went by um for me it was a wonderful
00:33:22
songwriting period I wrote um excuse me
00:33:26
so many songs
00:33:33
trying to think which ones of them
00:33:35
actually actually anyone would
00:33:37
know I wrote so many songs Jerusalem
00:33:42
exciting um and with Mo the one I did
00:33:45
with Moana I'll be the one who judge and
00:33:47
jwy going to give you what I need it's
00:33:49
on digifi to plead you so that that
00:33:52
that's they're on YouTube you know
00:33:53
exciting and um Jerusalem but you just
00:33:56
wrote heaps of songs and it was a
00:33:58
wonderful period where kind of um Karen
00:34:01
and myself sort of managed to just sort
00:34:03
of move into a whole another style of
00:34:05
life where we just moved around the
00:34:07
river every 24 hours they called us
00:34:09
Australian River Gypsies and we just
00:34:10
kept moving and and I was writing songs
00:34:13
um most optimistically looking for a a
00:34:16
publishing songwriting publishing deal
00:34:18
and a and a record deal that never came
00:34:21
MH but meanwhile really enjoying
00:34:23
ourselves yeah well I suppose your cost
00:34:25
of living is quite low if you're living
00:34:26
on a boat on absolutely and then later
00:34:28
on we went back again and that's when we
00:34:30
had children on the boat yeah on a
00:34:32
different boat it was Canal De 44t Long
00:34:36
foot long uh 11 ft wide sorry I don't do
00:34:41
metrics uh and what what is that like
00:34:44
though like um being on a being on a
00:34:46
boat it's great it's absolutely it's way
00:34:48
better than living in a car asan street
00:34:50
box in England yeah I wouldn't have
00:34:52
lasted six months if we were just living
00:34:53
in some little little brick one of those
00:34:55
ones but it's great it's um you know the
00:34:58
the the inland waterways in England and
00:35:01
the rivers are just such uh Prime
00:35:05
wonderful places to exist you know um
00:35:09
sort of
00:35:11
under under well now they're probably
00:35:13
over utilized now but in terms of living
00:35:15
on board boats it's a for someone who
00:35:18
likes living on boats I mean it's up to
00:35:19
you whether you like living on boats or
00:35:21
not but if you like living on a boat in
00:35:22
a small space I mean this whole tiny
00:35:24
home thing what the hell it's trying to
00:35:27
get me
00:35:28
this whole tiny home thing mean the boat
00:35:31
a boat is the is the perfect example of
00:35:33
that what's going on here something
00:35:35
spooky going on yes so um I that'll be
00:35:37
from the fan are you sure yeah maybe
00:35:39
can't I read more into this he I can
00:35:42
read more into this sure yeah um so you
00:35:45
live in a house you live in a house
00:35:46
currently right yeah man but do you have
00:35:49
many sort of positions or you're just
00:35:50
not a materialistic person really at all
00:35:52
I've got books I've got Heats I'm just
00:35:54
going to use my knees now cuz this is
00:35:56
good by the way envious that you're able
00:35:58
to sit like that I I've got
00:35:59
osteoarthritis of money I couldn't sit
00:36:01
like that is that from all that running
00:36:02
I told you Dom you shouldn't do all that
00:36:04
running you've worn out your joints um
00:36:07
now in my house um I live in like a
00:36:09
little tiny room like I'm into those
00:36:11
tiny space like a boat really but it's
00:36:13
it's a boat that doesn't move um
00:36:16
obviously and books I got all my all my
00:36:19
nautical book collection there which is
00:36:21
which is precious to me but having said
00:36:24
that I mean how often you do you [ __ ]
00:36:27
dig into do it not really I just look at
00:36:28
the spines and go oh yeah I've got that
00:36:31
book but it's nice sometimes it's nice
00:36:33
it feels um I don't know comforting to
00:36:36
be surrounded by some things that you
00:36:39
like Yeah
00:36:41
well yeah some people do that whole dend
00:36:43
thing with and they put up all their
00:36:45
success stories you know big big um you
00:36:49
know man cave a yeah yeah kind of thing
00:36:53
um I I might do that if I if I ever felt
00:36:57
I had the the longevity of staying in
00:36:59
one place for that long you know but I
00:37:02
never really looked at life like that it
00:37:04
seems to be more transient and things
00:37:07
keep changing like this yeah absolutely
00:37:11
well do you have much in the way of
00:37:12
memorabilia I've probably got more
00:37:13
mockers memorabilia right here to my
00:37:15
left than what you've got yeah no I have
00:37:17
absolutely but it's all in storage right
00:37:20
do you have the um the shield yourself
00:37:22
EP oh nice look at that wow 1987 that
00:37:27
that was a good good on you Dominic to
00:37:29
have kept that am I weiring you out now
00:37:32
with all my M no no I'm really
00:37:33
appreciative of it good on you what
00:37:35
about do you have a VHS I could borrow
00:37:37
so I can play play this that's a that's
00:37:40
a what are you what are you wearing
00:37:42
there what are you what is that what is
00:37:44
I'd gone too
00:37:46
far no but it was it was you you were
00:37:50
just like a man before your time like
00:37:52
you wear these pink fluffy suits like
00:37:54
you're from the [ __ ] Muppets there
00:37:55
was like this orange FL coat that you'd
00:37:58
wear um The Emperor's New Clothes coat
00:38:02
well I've still got those i' got all
00:38:04
that stuff in the car but you wouldn't
00:38:05
let me wear
00:38:07
it you know it's showers plus man you
00:38:11
got to keep up appearances you know like
00:38:13
this whole shoe gazing just I'm there in
00:38:16
my woolly jumper which I am most days um
00:38:18
on stage never worked for me you know I
00:38:21
aspire to the mark bowan sort of way of
00:38:24
presenting you know it's not mutually
00:38:26
exclusive you don't have to you know
00:38:27
just because you write a good song
00:38:29
doesn't mean you can you can't show off
00:38:31
as well you know so for me it's there
00:38:33
there's um there's the showers that goes
00:38:36
with the songwriting yeah yeah it's
00:38:38
about putting on a show yeah absolutely
00:38:40
um but it's it's good to see that that
00:38:42
hasn't sort of like wave it in you over
00:38:43
the years can you tell it has he no well
00:38:47
no the fact that you wanted to to sit
00:38:49
here on a a keyboard stool and you've
00:38:50
got
00:38:52
this spray and the bell and the the flag
00:38:56
it's um I like it I think it's cool you
00:38:58
don't have to like it Dominic criticize
00:39:01
me no no no I I absolutely respect it
00:39:04
that you're in that you're in your 60s
00:39:05
and it's like you you you know you're
00:39:07
growing old
00:39:09
disgracefully now that's a value Laden
00:39:13
Domin it's a compliment though aent
00:39:16
there's nothing disgraceful about
00:39:17
showing off no come on no but I mean I
00:39:20
suppose the enthusiasm or the flame
00:39:22
hasn't gone out after all these years
00:39:23
and it's it's I think it's inspiring
00:39:25
good on your Dominic point taken so what
00:39:28
um where does where does the passion
00:39:29
come from what what what keeps driving
00:39:31
you like when you when you're doing the
00:39:33
solo stuff and I I know the he's putting
00:39:38
a crown
00:39:39
on I know the the work that you're most
00:39:41
proud of is your most recent stuff but
00:39:43
you you know you must see like the
00:39:44
numbers on Spotify like they you know
00:39:47
they they get smaller and smaller what
00:39:50
are you but but where like where does
00:39:52
the passion come from to keep doing it
00:39:53
is it for is it for you it's there's no
00:39:56
passion at all it's just like
00:39:57
the mechanics of my mind like you know
00:40:00
left to my own devices if I wasn't here
00:40:02
this
00:40:03
afternoon and I wasn't working I'd be
00:40:08
puding around on my guitar you know it's
00:40:10
kind of like it's just something that I
00:40:13
do he's just gone to grab his guitar no
00:40:15
I haven't you cannot prove that Dominic
00:40:18
no I need to commentate what's going on
00:40:20
cuz you you know it's when we can't get
00:40:22
the guitar over Jesus Christ cut this
00:40:26
out cut this [ __ ]
00:40:30
out what is going on here I'm just
00:40:33
trying to give you a reality of my life
00:40:36
reality oh hang on I'm not going to
00:40:38
[ __ ] do this I got a pick oh look up
00:40:41
who
00:40:42
got Soo so like left to own devices this
00:40:45
afternoon if you weren't here the first
00:40:48
thing I'd do is tune my guitar but I'm
00:40:50
not going to do that cuz you are here
00:40:58
[Music]
00:41:11
it's Out Of Tune but yeah but you know
00:41:13
what I mean this is me let's just put
00:41:16
the tuner on while we're talking carry
00:41:17
on but you I mean some some of these um
00:41:20
songs you've done like Jerusalem um
00:41:22
Springs to mind it's a fantastic song
00:41:24
like does it does it frustrate you or
00:41:25
disappoint you that it doesn't have more
00:41:28
cut through than you know what it
00:41:29
probably
00:41:31
deserves tuning is more important than
00:41:36
talking just give me a moment I hate
00:41:39
atune guitars driving crazy I used to do
00:41:42
this for a living in D in um England
00:41:44
Dominic I worked for some big guys but
00:41:47
you never um in like in the mockers you
00:41:49
never played you just um just showing
00:41:51
off yeah yeah yeah anyway yeah sorry
00:41:53
what was the question oh so you have a
00:41:55
great song like Jerusalem like does does
00:41:57
does it frustrate you that it maybe
00:41:58
doesn't find the audience it
00:42:01
deserves got to learn how to play yeah
00:42:04
um does it frustrate um when you write a
00:42:06
song you know it's a good song and you
00:42:07
know that it you just don't know what's
00:42:09
going to happen you know you write a
00:42:10
song and you and I'd say I've written so
00:42:15
many songs that have not found an
00:42:17
audience or any any anything in terms of
00:42:22
popularity
00:42:23
that I just I'm just um
00:42:27
immune to it you know it doesn't matter
00:42:29
like some songs go off um it's
00:42:32
frustrating to start with but you know
00:42:34
you you just you can't otherwise if if
00:42:37
you let that bother you you'd never
00:42:40
you'd never even try to do it again you
00:42:42
know like trying to find popularity with
00:42:44
a song it's more self- Amusement I'm
00:42:47
totally I'm a fan of music I like the
00:42:49
sound of this you know I could this
00:42:51
could be just a guitar without a one W I
00:42:54
love distortion
00:43:10
you know and
00:43:24
and yeah Luna knows these s
00:43:27
s yeah get light like that's a song that
00:43:30
I'm disappointed hasn't found an
00:43:32
audience I thought that was a really
00:43:33
good one off my album um Admiral the
00:43:36
Naro season
00:43:43
[Music]
00:43:53
2011 so that's like a riff I made up
00:43:56
when I was living on my Bo in Cox's Bay
00:43:57
in
00:43:58
1983 and I finally managed to turn it
00:44:01
into a song about yeah 2005 you know but
00:44:06
I mean you just get
00:44:09
into just mucking around with with
00:44:12
frequencies what you what what's so
00:44:14
wonderful about music is that you're
00:44:16
manipulating
00:44:17
frequencies and it's just outrageous
00:44:21
that you can fill up spark Arena full of
00:44:24
people that live really normal lives
00:44:26
doing normal jobs but they're all there
00:44:29
because of the way someone has
00:44:31
manipulated those frequencies whether
00:44:33
it's the idols who I miss my favorite
00:44:35
band of the moment you know um British
00:44:38
sort of new punk rock band or Olivia
00:44:43
Rodrigo who are also like you know the
00:44:45
way you know dri's license and and dejay
00:44:48
Vu got my ders but like how how do you
00:44:52
how do you know Olivia Rodrigo because
00:44:54
when I was how did you stumble across
00:44:55
here because I was work King okay here
00:44:58
we go this this will give you some sort
00:45:00
of gratification I was working um on a
00:45:03
tug which I do you know Marine industry
00:45:05
and the guy the the 23 year olds had the
00:45:09
Edge Edge video on the on the TV right
00:45:13
and I heard that song DJ Vu and I was
00:45:15
like what the [ __ ] that's genius song I
00:45:19
mean the way it's that the everything
00:45:21
about that song is just absolutely
00:45:22
amazing and then I got then I started
00:45:24
looking her up and going okay so yeah
00:45:27
little kid but she's writing some
00:45:29
amazing songs you know I think she's
00:45:31
legit but you is there is there much
00:45:33
like contemporary music that you hear
00:45:35
and you go holy [ __ ] that is really good
00:45:37
the idols because they're really unusual
00:45:39
the way they use their frequencies right
00:45:41
you know my mother worked 16 hours 6
00:45:44
days a week
00:45:46
[ __ ] I don't know that one yeah
00:45:49
but it's actually quite a it's it's
00:45:50
really well put together um song called
00:45:53
him by the idols the Idols are just it's
00:45:57
it's the they're made up of a whole lot
00:45:59
of different parts really um very
00:46:02
intelligent guitar playing and the way
00:46:04
they use the frequencies to me is really
00:46:07
compelling because it's it's it's not
00:46:09
unprecedented but it's right out there
00:46:11
it's um and then they are not pop songs
00:46:14
as we but having said that I went and
00:46:16
saw them at spark Arena so you know
00:46:18
they're pulling 2,000 people and getting
00:46:20
bigger and they're playing all the time
00:46:21
around the world but I also also love
00:46:23
you know um the Carpenters and all those
00:46:27
sort of songs because again it's you're
00:46:31
making up you know Melodies are just a
00:46:33
manipulating frequencies and that's a
00:46:36
hell of a um hell of a comp competent
00:46:39
thing to do yeah yeah actually you you
00:46:42
sent me a list um the the other day of
00:46:44
um of um a bunch of songs which I I put
00:46:47
together on a playlist here oh good on
00:46:48
you thank it's going to be um I think
00:46:50
it's going to be too tricky to play like
00:46:52
I don't know what the rules are with
00:46:53
playing music on a podcast but but we
00:46:55
can run through these songs you you
00:46:57
won't get the um the rights for a little
00:46:59
costume in yeah so so but let's run
00:47:02
through these songs because I I'm
00:47:03
curious as to why you one of these
00:47:05
particular songs so the first one's
00:47:07
called go all the way from The
00:47:08
Raspberries yeah the raspberries yeah go
00:47:11
all the that is the most amazing piece
00:47:14
of um Melody writing and it's also all
00:47:16
the sort of guitars it's all like kind
00:47:20
Treo it's not that but you know but it's
00:47:22
like it's it's classic guitar pop music
00:47:25
um 19 72 or something right they just
00:47:29
amazing U Melody writing and also the
00:47:31
singers got that real wow thing which it
00:47:34
was a bunch of very diverse songs that
00:47:36
you you sent through um what the next
00:47:38
one every day by Slade oh that is a
00:47:41
that's such a a a classic um gem from a
00:47:46
band that was really regarded as a bit
00:47:48
of a bit of a just a sort of a like
00:47:51
throwaway Slade where like uh the other
00:47:55
early 60s uh 70s band what they called
00:47:59
from England they always had those funny
00:48:02
puppy those haircuts you know um what do
00:48:06
they call it like puppy dog
00:48:08
or Fringe long here oh not like a not
00:48:13
not like a ball cut no it's not like a
00:48:17
um oh let's have a think everyone pause
00:48:20
now and think okay and who um there are
00:48:24
bands up kind of like Glam bands from
00:48:26
the early' 70s they were kind of written
00:48:29
off as um and as not that good but the
00:48:33
writing was really good when you listen
00:48:35
to it in the production and that Slade
00:48:37
song's amazing yeah do do you think
00:48:39
that's where part of your Showmanship
00:48:41
came from that Glam stuff from the 70s
00:48:43
potentially yeah probably cuz that was
00:48:44
my age you know I was probably 10
00:48:46
watching that stuff and and to me like
00:48:48
eye makeup and nail polish and and
00:48:51
showas gear like seemed really normal
00:48:54
but no one else in New Zealand was doing
00:48:55
it
00:48:57
at all yeah that's their problem 100% um
00:49:00
the next one on this list of songs um
00:49:02
Barbara O'Reilly from the ho oh that's
00:49:04
too good the who like Pete town in like
00:49:06
Pete Town in's just genius songwriter in
00:49:09
my book he's he's he's he's the man you
00:49:12
know um bubber O'Reilly the other thing
00:49:14
with that one is um Pete in whistle uh
00:49:17
bass playing and Keith Moon's drumming
00:49:20
you know um Keith Moon as a character
00:49:22
was very much like Steve Thorp as well I
00:49:24
think you know Steve was life of the
00:49:25
party you know yeah um but just that sty
00:49:29
that kind of just again it's it's the
00:49:32
magic that comes from a whole bunch of
00:49:34
people just getting in in a small space
00:49:37
and making stuff up that they don't know
00:49:39
is going to be popular but they're
00:49:41
making up stuff to satisy themselves and
00:49:43
that's always my approach to songw
00:49:45
writing I'm just trying to write songs
00:49:46
that I like yeah that that song that bab
00:49:48
WR great
00:49:49
song like how many hundreds of movies or
00:49:52
TV soundtracks has it been on but it's
00:49:54
such a but I watch what if you watch
00:49:56
them live at shepperton like about 1972
00:49:59
you know and they're all wide but it's
00:50:01
like it's like wow it's just it's it's
00:50:05
it's what you can do when you're trying
00:50:07
music yeah absolutely um the next one
00:50:10
was um there she goes from the l oh too
00:50:12
good yeah all that chimy stuff that's
00:50:14
what I was trying to do with this one
00:50:18
[Music]
00:50:22
here something like you know it's that
00:50:24
kind of it's that chimy
00:50:28
yeah it's easier to do that but yeah
00:50:30
that's that's a great song the L it's
00:50:32
just that here he go just Melody share I
00:50:36
mean it's not that easy to make up that
00:50:39
[ __ ] you know we we the next one on the
00:50:41
list was um Deja Vu which you talked
00:50:42
about before from Olivia Rodrigo when
00:50:44
when you hear a song like that is there
00:50:46
part of you that goes [ __ ] I'm jealous
00:50:47
that I didn't think of that I've sort of
00:50:50
got Beyond there but I used to I used to
00:50:51
think like that but like now I just
00:50:53
appreciate it for what it is and I go
00:50:54
wow like like what what what's wonderful
00:50:57
is that people are still making up
00:50:59
original songs with the same old [ __ ]
00:51:02
four chords it's what you make up on top
00:51:05
of the chords that counts it's you know
00:51:07
you can play the same you
00:51:09
know g whatever what's this one you know
00:51:14
what I mean you can but it's what you
00:51:15
make up on top of it that makes a song
00:51:18
yeah and that's that's the compelling
00:51:20
part [ __ ] you're passionate about it
00:51:22
aren't you you're into it right into it
00:51:25
in any the other real modern modern
00:51:28
stuff you like like the weekend in
00:51:30
cheering you see any hip hop or anything
00:51:33
haven't really heard like honestly I
00:51:35
mean haven't I don't seek out uh popular
00:51:40
contemporary music because I'm sort of
00:51:41
like buried in my own [ __ ] you know um
00:51:44
it's just things that sort of suddenly
00:51:46
they hit me and then I'm into it
00:51:48
yeah um okay should we change Tech and
00:51:51
talk about the radio years for a little
00:51:53
bit do you think I should take my helmet
00:51:54
off of that I don't know no
00:51:57
I don't know up to
00:51:58
you up to you I there's there's no rules
00:52:02
here actually when when um when you
00:52:03
first arrived you said I've got some
00:52:05
props but I don't want to ruin your
00:52:06
aesthetic it's like this is your podcast
00:52:08
I want I want you to have a good
00:52:12
time if you're having fun I'm having
00:52:15
fun oh [ __ ] Luna's left dog here on
00:52:18
my top you think people are be able to
00:52:20
see that n no no we'll fix that in post
00:52:22
production the tuning's still a bit out
00:52:24
man yeah so you you had a real job for a
00:52:27
while you were on um it was this radio
00:52:29
station called radio live which is no no
00:52:31
longer exists um and you did the night
00:52:33
show uh with your wife Karen for a
00:52:36
number of years listening listening but
00:52:39
churning comes
00:52:42
first yeah yeah yeah talk back radio
00:52:45
yeah was cool man enjoyed that yeah
00:52:47
hello yeah hello you you would you did
00:52:50
it for years though
00:52:52
right that's in tune um sorry turn turn
00:52:56
this off get
00:52:57
focused uh yeah we did seven years of
00:53:00
that yeah radio live that was that was
00:53:03
an unusual experience to be honest from
00:53:05
my perspective talking on the radio and
00:53:08
not having songs to cut to and talking
00:53:10
about popular um topics or unpopular
00:53:14
topics um yeah yeah yeah yeah how did
00:53:18
you find that from a a from a creative
00:53:20
standpoint I'm guessing you found it
00:53:21
quite stifling because there's so many
00:53:23
so many rules with commercial radio
00:53:25
regardless of what the format is well
00:53:26
before that um that evolved from working
00:53:30
at kiwi FM where I was a music
00:53:33
programmer for five years so that kind
00:53:36
of sucked the creative life out of me
00:53:39
entirely because I was just listening to
00:53:42
piles and piles of CDs that arrived
00:53:45
every week and trying to give people an
00:53:47
opportunity to get played on the radio
00:53:49
you know so for me kiwi FM was a really
00:53:52
U positive platform that gave lots of
00:53:56
people
00:53:57
uh you know places to get their a place
00:54:01
to get their songs played we haven't
00:54:02
even talked about your um your other big
00:54:05
passion actually maybe this is your
00:54:06
number one passion um the water the
00:54:08
ocean and your relationship with the
00:54:09
ocean I bought it with me see
00:54:12
yeah so um yeah you had a book called
00:54:15
swirly World which you told me before we
00:54:17
started you're no no longer own it's uh
00:54:20
where is so so swi it's a tiny boat 52
00:54:25
years old you you got this boat in
00:54:28
1985 yeah I bought it in 1985 that's
00:54:30
right I've lost interest sorry what were
00:54:32
we talking about I was doing a big
00:54:34
solo you know all good swirly world so
00:54:37
like I brought you in a copy of the book
00:54:39
Dominic where where have you put it just
00:54:41
here okay I'm looking forward to reading
00:54:42
it I'm really excited about that well
00:54:44
that's the old book right so I've
00:54:45
written two books about the boat I
00:54:47
bought it in
00:54:48
1985 and I lost it in
00:54:52
2022 I was attempting to sail around the
00:54:55
world nonstop
00:54:57
uh via the great capes 14 months it was
00:55:00
going to take me
00:55:02
and basically I bit off more than the
00:55:05
boat could chew so it all turned to [ __ ]
00:55:09
and I've just finished writing that last
00:55:12
the the end of the trilogy which is swiy
00:55:15
World lost at sea but I can't give too
00:55:17
much away Dominic but um I still lived
00:55:20
to tell tail but the boat didn't maybe
00:55:22
or maybe it did you you what um what
00:55:25
happens with um A boat like that maybe
00:55:27
not NE not a swirly World specific if
00:55:29
you don't want to give that detail away
00:55:30
but so you get rescued by another boat
00:55:32
that happens to be in the area they just
00:55:34
do you just abandon ship and it just
00:55:36
becomes a ghost ship what happens have
00:55:39
you already read the the last
00:55:42
book okay okay you you went on some and
00:55:45
this this is astonishing so it's a
00:55:47
little boat like 5 m 5 m long something
00:55:51
like that tiny little boat it's it's 17
00:55:54
FT 1 in Long which is five .1 M yeah and
00:55:57
and you um you you hold the world record
00:55:59
you've got the world record for sailing
00:56:01
the the smallest boat uh from New
00:56:03
Zealand to Australia you s to malula
00:56:06
that's correct and there in back
00:56:08
actually yeah and then the smallest boat
00:56:10
have circumnavigated New Zealand via the
00:56:14
Orland Islands yeah I went down there in
00:56:16
2007 that's what that book there I've
00:56:18
given you is about so um yes I've done
00:56:20
some done plenty of miles in it that
00:56:23
sounds that sounds terrifying it's fun
00:56:25
no um it it's terrifying if you're not
00:56:27
initiated but once you one it all comes
00:56:30
down to your uh spectrum of of Jeopardy
00:56:35
you know and like when you're in a boat
00:56:37
like that and you know how to use it and
00:56:40
you know it's
00:56:42
slow the
00:56:44
Jeopardy is minor you know you've got
00:56:47
you come and get me stuff you know you
00:56:49
got your life ra these days with um GPS
00:56:52
and
00:56:54
EBS so yeah yeah but when you when you
00:56:57
first started doing this in the mid 80s
00:56:59
and you were sailing to the kumed
00:57:00
islands and places like that there um
00:57:04
I'm guessing the communication
00:57:05
technology wasn't very good and the GPS
00:57:07
so you're basically saying goodbye to
00:57:09
your your bandmates your management your
00:57:11
loved ones whatever and you may not see
00:57:13
them again like one freak wave and you
00:57:15
could be gone regardless of your level
00:57:17
of seamanship surely absolutely yeah so
00:57:19
that's up to you um my first trip like
00:57:22
you mentioned in 1986 was um I'd read
00:57:26
the books about solo
00:57:28
sailing and
00:57:30
um and sorry just got distracted by the
00:57:34
dog going out to bark and at a motorbike
00:57:37
yeah cuz it doesn't like those
00:57:39
frequencies that's Luna Luna's a dog um
00:57:41
yeah so um yeah so I wanted to go
00:57:45
offshore and see what it's like to be
00:57:47
out of sight of land you know that was
00:57:49
in
00:57:50
1986 so that was like at the height of
00:57:52
the mockers and it was and I think the
00:57:55
manager managed to to organ get some
00:57:57
Sunday news headline where it said mocka
00:57:59
fleas country or something like that but
00:58:02
my I went to the ra ra Island and the
00:58:05
keric group 650 Mi North Northeast of
00:58:08
New Zealand and I used a seant and it
00:58:10
was all about just doing something that
00:58:12
I read read about when I was a teenager
00:58:14
that I really wanted to have a go at and
00:58:16
I haven't lost interest in that at all
00:58:18
it's it's amazing to be out on the Water
00:58:20
by yourself out of sight of land uh once
00:58:22
you get over that Jeopardy equation
00:58:25
which is it's just a a mind [ __ ] you
00:58:27
just you just you can do that so easily
00:58:30
it's just um it it comes with experience
00:58:34
so my first trip to W hickey Island from
00:58:37
the Harbor Bridge made me feel slightly
00:58:39
scared when I did it at night you know
00:58:42
and then my next trip to Great Barrier
00:58:44
Island from from the Oakland Harbor
00:58:46
Bridge was slightly scary but then you
00:58:49
know you just develop your awareness of
00:58:52
what constitutes Jeopardy really you
00:58:55
build like a bit of car
00:58:56
confidence but um yeah how do you plan
00:58:59
for one of these things when you're
00:59:00
going away for 2 weeks 3 weeks 4 weeks
00:59:04
but well you going away for I was going
00:59:06
away for 14 months when it all went
00:59:08
wrong in 2022 so that was 5 years in the
00:59:12
planning so like I I had 14 months with
00:59:15
the freeze dried food I had a
00:59:17
desalinator which is a water maker it's
00:59:19
like a big grease gun a manual one not
00:59:21
an electric one cuz I hadn't got the the
00:59:23
power supply um so I was making my I was
00:59:27
making 3 l of fresh water would take me
00:59:29
40 minutes to pump it um so you're
00:59:32
turning in the sea into into fresh water
00:59:35
and you watch it drip into this little
00:59:36
bottle here and it's you really value
00:59:38
fresh water when you when it comes in
00:59:40
that slow um so everything like that all
00:59:43
the spares everything navigational gear
00:59:46
um it's a massive amount of of
00:59:49
application and preparation M but it's
00:59:52
something you do because that's what you
00:59:54
got to do to achieve an objective but
00:59:58
where I went wrong was that um I
01:00:00
underestimated the Capac I overestimated
01:00:03
the capacity of the boat with hindsight
01:00:07
the in terms of what the boat was
01:00:08
capable of or yeah right is it because
01:00:11
the boat was old or maybe it was plywood
01:00:15
glassed
01:00:16
over in 52 years old it wasn't a young
01:00:19
boat yeah I mean those boat old boats
01:00:22
have done huge voyages as well but the
01:00:25
design of it and the fact that it was
01:00:28
had a lot of stuff inside it um yeah it
01:00:30
was most unfortunate it was an
01:00:31
unfortunate outcome but it's all in the
01:00:33
next book are you ready are you ready
01:00:35
for it okay I'm ready I'm ready I'm so
01:00:38
so yeah I mean that must that must be
01:00:41
incredibly sad like you I suppose when
01:00:44
you get rescued you're relieved but also
01:00:46
it's a boat that's been a massive part
01:00:47
of your life for
01:00:50
decades yeah I guess it it it was sad it
01:00:53
was it was at the time it was more annoy
01:00:56
aning and um that that I'd over
01:01:01
overestimated the boat's capacity you
01:01:03
know um it was really annoying that I
01:01:05
had so much stuff inside that cost me a
01:01:08
fortune like 30 Grands Fortune to me 30
01:01:11
grand worth of stuff that I had to leave
01:01:13
behind at the mercy of the sea um so
01:01:17
yeah it's it sort of comes back to me
01:01:19
now and then I sort of think oh well
01:01:21
that was that you know but you know it
01:01:25
wasn't like it was life and death for a
01:01:27
while until I managed to get off the
01:01:28
boat for how long well like a day days
01:01:33
few days but the boat yeah that's
01:01:36
terrifying well the boat
01:01:37
was it's it's terrifying looking back on
01:01:40
it but when you're actually immersed in
01:01:41
a situation like that it's just what it
01:01:44
is you just um find a resilience to cope
01:01:47
with with an awkward situation and
01:01:50
that's on that's changing all the time
01:01:52
and that's what that's what I've tried
01:01:53
to write up in this book is like trying
01:01:56
to explain um you know not so much where
01:01:59
it went wrong but how you cope with
01:02:02
what's gone wrong oh that's going to be
01:02:04
a good read hopefully that's but but on
01:02:07
those those days where it's touch and go
01:02:09
like are you are you comfortable with
01:02:12
the prospect of dying at Sea no but I
01:02:14
never think I never think I'm going to
01:02:15
die at sea cuz I've got a life raft you
01:02:18
know I mean if the boat sank underneath
01:02:20
me I'd get in the life raft so you're
01:02:22
always thinking what's what's the next
01:02:24
step to safety so it's not just um it's
01:02:28
not like oh I'm doomed I I mean I guess
01:02:31
if I was in the water something would
01:02:33
really gone wrong and I was just
01:02:34
floating in the Water by myself you know
01:02:38
point you go okay I'm probably
01:02:42
fine but until I get it's not looking
01:02:45
good right now yeah that's
01:02:47
right I'll turn up some Distortion for
01:02:49
that um what about
01:02:51
um what about um yeah what about L
01:02:55
loneliness when you're at there I'm
01:02:56
thinking like recently we've had you
01:02:57
know the co lockdowns and for a lot of
01:02:59
people the the worst aspect of that was
01:03:01
the the loneliness fact oh [ __ ] humans
01:03:04
I'm sick of
01:03:06
humans [ __ ] hum One n sick to death of a
01:03:11
[ __ ] I guess so what what like when
01:03:13
you're out on the sea what what what
01:03:14
does an average day look like it's great
01:03:16
you're just trying to keep the boat
01:03:18
moving like on it not not on a motorboat
01:03:20
you know I've been out there on Big
01:03:22
Ships as well but when you're Sailing by
01:03:25
yourself you're trying to keep the boat
01:03:26
moving in the right direction as fast as
01:03:29
possible 24/7 and cuz you're by yourself
01:03:33
you've got to be kind of always on red
01:03:36
alert and your whole life is just tuned
01:03:39
into keeping that boat sailing as fast
01:03:41
as possible which in my case is only
01:03:43
like four or five knots you know it's
01:03:45
slow sailing but it's just keeping it
01:03:49
moving and there's a sense of purpose
01:03:50
that comes with that and but when you're
01:03:53
out of sight of land there's no there's
01:03:55
nothing yeah all you're looking at is
01:03:57
this an empty Horizon all around you and
01:04:01
the
01:04:01
clouds uh and the sky are the things
01:04:04
that change and obviously Darkness at
01:04:07
night and and the universe comes in
01:04:09
super bright which looks amazing
01:04:10
especially away from the city glow but
01:04:13
it's it's all
01:04:15
about your sense of purpose is keeping
01:04:17
the Boat Moving and it feels really it
01:04:21
just feels great to me it Feels So
01:04:23
natural because you're there by yourself
01:04:25
it's only up to you it's you've got no
01:04:28
one to rely on it's up to you to to to
01:04:31
go wherever you want to go and that's
01:04:35
just a great feeling I think this is the
01:04:38
most passionate you've been in this
01:04:39
whole whole conversation it's really
01:04:41
cool to see your eyes light up when you
01:04:42
talk about it what about the well
01:04:44
they're usually quite dead yeah hey no I
01:04:46
can just just tell like um the first
01:04:56
is that that
01:04:57
suit there my dead eyes look
01:05:03
yeah no the like the first 20 minutes or
01:05:06
so when we talked about the mocker stuff
01:05:08
I I I I can tell it wasn't I wasn't
01:05:11
punishing for you but I can tell it's
01:05:12
like you're like yeah that was then this
01:05:14
is now but I like the mockers I mean
01:05:15
it's all and it's and it's it's great
01:05:17
revisiting the mockers now it's even
01:05:19
better now than it was before because
01:05:21
you realize that it's more it's more
01:05:23
special cuz you know it's never going to
01:05:25
come it's it's it's gone so like every
01:05:27
chance we get to play mocka songs
01:05:29
together with those same people is
01:05:31
really um for me it's it's really
01:05:34
gratifying especially when you realize
01:05:36
that all those guys Tim and and Brett
01:05:39
and Jeff They're all playing the songs
01:05:40
way better than we used to you know and
01:05:43
everyone's trying harder because you
01:05:45
know it's printed forever you can't be
01:05:47
half cut and and um you know and sing
01:05:50
out a tune like we used like I used to
01:05:53
be these days because some 's got a
01:05:56
phone and it's on the internet
01:05:57
forever last forever so you got to try
01:06:00
harder that's true like right now see
01:06:03
don't walk away from me I'm not the kind
01:06:06
of Li to people down the world is wied
01:06:10
just too weit to ever want to it's a
01:06:14
great song um oh yeah so what's the
01:06:18
longest you've been at sea without
01:06:19
talking to another human being that was
01:06:21
40 days the last trip I did 40 days 4 40
01:06:25
days 4 nights it's biblical stuff
01:06:27
Dominic with without um did you have
01:06:29
like a like a some sort of radio or no
01:06:31
you're right no I I was it's it's I'm
01:06:33
lying so I was texting like in the old
01:06:37
days a satellite phone or yeah yeah a
01:06:39
Garmin in Reach cool little text thing
01:06:42
you know and so you're talking all the
01:06:43
time actually that's I reckon that's
01:06:45
next time I do it that's I'm not going
01:06:47
to do that it's there's too much
01:06:49
communication these days you're too
01:06:51
accountable and it it [ __ ] up your
01:06:53
whole um sense of application I think it
01:06:57
uh in terms of isolation in the old days
01:06:59
people would if they're going to sell to
01:07:01
fij they just um they'd leave and then
01:07:05
they're gone you know you don't know
01:07:07
what what's happened until they get
01:07:09
there you know and and personally I
01:07:12
think that's a better mindset for the
01:07:15
participant than it is to be always
01:07:17
constantly telling people where you are
01:07:19
you know it's a safety thing though
01:07:20
right isn't it well it's sort of safety
01:07:22
but a lot of it's just ego blogging
01:07:24
these days you look at YouTube and
01:07:26
everyone's just showing off about where
01:07:27
they are and you know I've done 60 miles
01:07:30
in the last 60 you know 24 hours so
01:07:33
that's that's not that's not good um but
01:07:36
it is good in my yes my sense of speed
01:07:41
um application what's my point no it's
01:07:47
yeah communication's not good once you
01:07:48
go out there you go out there and you're
01:07:50
gone you know like the old days there's
01:07:52
a great movie Deep Water which is worth
01:07:55
watch
01:07:56
where it was the way it was in 1968 for
01:07:58
the soul around the world race and you
01:08:00
just disappear over this curve of the
01:08:02
earth um we're just we're just too
01:08:05
conditioned to too much communication
01:08:08
you know and everyone wants to know
01:08:09
where you are everyone want and then
01:08:11
everyone wants to have an opinion about
01:08:12
what weather you're getting and things
01:08:14
and you just become like a little guinea
01:08:15
pig for for an
01:08:18
audience but when yeah yeah what are you
01:08:21
you are you quite good with your own
01:08:22
thoughts it's a lot of a lot of time on
01:08:24
your own with your own thoughts
01:08:25
yeah it's good I mean what do you do you
01:08:28
you take a guitar and you write or no no
01:08:30
there's no room for a guitar I did take
01:08:31
a guitar but that's they just get the
01:08:33
strings go Rusty and Things No Room for
01:08:35
luxuries not on swirly world it was too
01:08:38
small um
01:08:40
but uh lot of reading I took a Kindle on
01:08:43
the last trip it was it was strange like
01:08:47
with Kindles you don't you don't know
01:08:48
how long a book is you know I ended up
01:08:50
reading um Gandhi's autobiography it was
01:08:53
900 [ __ ] Pages man it just went on
01:08:56
and on Swipe swipe if I'd known the book
01:08:59
was that thick I wouldn't have [ __ ]
01:09:00
bought it mate and then what was so
01:09:03
pervs is that when I ended up when I
01:09:05
ended up having to get off the boat I
01:09:07
was faced with 28 um genuine Indians
01:09:10
people and I said you know said I just
01:09:13
read G's
01:09:15
autobiography no none of us have read it
01:09:17
too
01:09:18
long too
01:09:20
long um yeah what's the what's the
01:09:22
general synopsis tell us that um
01:09:26
some stuff that you saw at say icebergs
01:09:28
you see icebergs no I wasn't that far
01:09:30
south um I always wanted to see a UFO or
01:09:32
something like that now never had the
01:09:34
privilege or if I have I've I've had me
01:09:36
my memory
01:09:37
erased what about what about sea life
01:09:39
like um all the US stuff yeah yeah all
01:09:42
the whales and ppus and um uh
01:09:46
albatrosses and sea you know birds and
01:09:49
all that kind of thing yeah that's I
01:09:51
almost take that sort of stuff for
01:09:52
granted really but they're all out there
01:09:55
it's that's where they live any any
01:09:57
close calls with um freight ships or
01:09:59
anything like that not really no um I'm
01:10:04
a bit yeah I don't I probably don't look
01:10:06
as much as I should you know it's called
01:10:08
being on watch but when you buy yourself
01:10:10
in a very small boat maybe there was not
01:10:14
that I
01:10:15
noticed what about when it's um when
01:10:17
it's storming and there's like like mass
01:10:19
of massive waves yeah have there been
01:10:20
times over the years where you thought
01:10:22
[ __ ] this is this is it no I think this
01:10:24
is great like oh god well now what I
01:10:27
like is I like the um the scale of what
01:10:29
the sea can do I mean that's why I was
01:10:31
trying to sail around the world via the
01:10:33
great capes I got down to about 40 42 de
01:10:36
South I had to go a lot further south if
01:10:39
I was going to get around Cape Horn
01:10:41
and the scale of of what the sea kicks
01:10:45
up when you're away from the land is
01:10:46
just phenomenal the movement the the
01:10:49
constant movement it's just so alive and
01:10:54
I really like that like it's just it's
01:10:56
exciting you know um threatening as well
01:10:58
but but as long as you've got all your
01:11:01
you've got yourself well set up and
01:11:03
you're in like a little it's like an egg
01:11:05
you know that you're getting smashed
01:11:06
around that the the emotion the motion
01:11:09
is is totally uncomfortable it's it's
01:11:12
for for a lot of people it's just
01:11:13
horrendous but it's something you get
01:11:16
adjusted to and then when you actually
01:11:18
see what's going on around you it's just
01:11:20
phenomenal it's and and you just you
01:11:22
just um you shut over the side of the
01:11:24
boat or and bucket in a bucket um yeah
01:11:28
yeah I urinate in into a into like a
01:11:31
plastic bottle as well so you cut the
01:11:33
top off it be a bigger bottle than this
01:11:36
so you cut so you cut okay A little Flex
01:11:39
not to do with good in terms to do with
01:11:41
volume of of liquid nothing to do with
01:11:43
girth of penis all right I'm not making
01:11:47
those kind of crude jokes but you say so
01:11:49
well these jokes are okay now if I was a
01:11:51
12-year-old cut it off cut
01:11:54
cut so like so the thing is like like
01:11:57
the amount of people that have been
01:11:58
caught found drowned like holding on to
01:12:01
a back stay in the middle of the night
01:12:03
with their trousers down having a piss
01:12:04
over the side it's huge what the thing
01:12:07
is that you you um you urinate into a
01:12:10
bottle and then you pull that over the
01:12:12
side same with a bucket you don't like
01:12:14
lean over the side and do a [ __ ] like
01:12:17
the thing is to put put it in a bucket
01:12:20
um and also get the lid on really
01:12:21
quickly and I mean the motion it's hard
01:12:24
to it's hard to express but it's so so
01:12:28
dramatic like you know we we're sitting
01:12:30
here now and we're going up and down
01:12:32
like seven M just in a moment and then
01:12:35
we're also getting smashed across here
01:12:37
so like you know you you're you're
01:12:38
bracing yourself the whole time because
01:12:41
the the motion is so extreme so when
01:12:44
when you're trying to defecate on a
01:12:46
bucket inside you can't go outside to do
01:12:49
it because it's it just there breaking
01:12:52
waves and You' be washed over the side
01:12:54
so you're doing this ins
01:12:55
and then you're trying to seal the
01:12:56
bucket up so it doesn't you don't spill
01:12:59
it and I that that moving the that
01:13:01
bucket outside without when you open the
01:13:05
hatch to get it outside without getting
01:13:07
water coming in and getting all your
01:13:09
inside we is just
01:13:12
absolutely crucial like the massive
01:13:14
moments in your life like when you when
01:13:17
you get to um yeah defecate in a
01:13:20
bucket but even just talking about this
01:13:23
your eyes sort of light up I suppose
01:13:25
like one one one like one moment of
01:13:28
Madness or one sort of laps of
01:13:29
concentration and you you you're screwed
01:13:32
absolutely so like everything you do on
01:13:34
Deck you hold on like a little monkey
01:13:36
you go out there and I i' often grin to
01:13:39
myself in the in the middle of the night
01:13:42
I'm trying to Reef the main Cil or
01:13:45
change head cils and you just hold I I
01:13:49
wear a safety harness so you're still
01:13:50
clipped onto the boat in case you lost
01:13:53
your holding and you're just going to
01:13:54
end up when the water dragged along the
01:13:56
side um but but that wouldn't be good
01:14:00
whether you could actually even get back
01:14:01
on board but you just hold on like like
01:14:05
the emotion is so violent and you hold
01:14:08
on in a way that it's just survival you
01:14:11
know but again it's quite exciting cuz
01:14:14
it's it's cuz it's it's dangerous you do
01:14:17
love it and you've been working on boats
01:14:19
recently like um you did a trip to pit
01:14:22
Ken Island to drop off some supplies I
01:14:24
did three years doing that yeah um was
01:14:26
back and forth yeah that was back and
01:14:28
forth that's like 2,600 mi from Tonga um
01:14:32
we used to go up there and come back and
01:14:33
that was a proper kind of that was a
01:14:35
different kind of boating that's that
01:14:37
was you know industrial boating where
01:14:39
you're just on the ship and you're doing
01:14:41
watches and yeah that's but I enjoyed
01:14:44
that as well you know very different
01:14:47
style of boating yeah what what are you
01:14:49
doing for work now same thing yeah but I
01:14:51
work on small tugs around the coast so
01:14:55
recently I've been in cook straight
01:14:57
that's where I damaged my shoulder
01:15:03
just and yeah
01:15:06
so we move things around we tow things
01:15:10
like at the moment we're Towing rocks
01:15:12
through cook straight from place called
01:15:15
tyrai Golden Bay into Wellington Harbor
01:15:19
and that's to do with the they're
01:15:21
putting the big rocks there to stop the
01:15:24
um Hut River from flood next time it
01:15:26
floods it won't be so devastating or
01:15:27
something like that so yeah so like
01:15:30
Towing it's it's it's everything's Rusty
01:15:33
and has a potential to kill you you know
01:15:36
the level of Jeopardy in terms of the
01:15:39
Boating style it's very different to
01:15:40
sailing a small boat but again you're on
01:15:43
the water you know yeah the people um
01:15:46
that you work with are they aware of
01:15:47
your past life of course yeah yeah now
01:15:49
they come to gigs and stuff we have a
01:15:50
good time together yeah and we play
01:15:52
guitar together they act the skip at the
01:15:54
moment Jason he's he's he's a really
01:15:56
good leag guitarist so um so yeah we we
01:16:00
we amuse ourselves oh that's so cool
01:16:04
um I've got some miscellaneous ones here
01:16:07
uh oh uh oh no no no um
01:16:10
nothing jeez you're very quick on the
01:16:13
Bell um yeah one one of your one of your
01:16:16
early mocker songs which I really really
01:16:17
love um it's called you only live once
01:16:20
um you only live once so you might as
01:16:22
well do all the things that you want to
01:16:24
then one of the one how old are you now
01:16:26
62 that's 61 61 yeah so 40 years old the
01:16:31
line is at 21 I never thought I'd be
01:16:33
living on a boat upon the sea oh that
01:16:34
was that when I was living at coxes bay
01:16:36
that's right yeah cuz I always wanted to
01:16:37
do that so whilst I was I grew up living
01:16:40
in Island Bay and Wellington I had a
01:16:41
friend who lived on a boat at Evans Bay
01:16:43
and I just wanted to do that so when I
01:16:46
moved to Oakland with the band and and
01:16:48
we were poverty stricken um living on a
01:16:50
boat was a wonderful thing yeah and I
01:16:52
got to do it and then I bought this
01:16:53
little one of those little Casio
01:16:55
Keyboard players from a royalty check my
01:16:57
first royalty check $150 and I wrote
01:17:00
that song on it yeah very big I think I
01:17:02
had the same one like a CIO sk1 or
01:17:04
something yeah yeah and a good little
01:17:07
bit of Kit it was great wi for someone
01:17:09
who wasn't that competent as myself yeah
01:17:10
it was cool um what would that lyric be
01:17:13
now like if you had to rewrite that song
01:17:15
you only live once at 61 I never thought
01:17:17
I'd
01:17:18
be working in the
01:17:21
industry with things that might
01:17:23
potentially kill me
01:17:27
we need some stion for that
01:17:30
mate
01:17:33
[Music]
01:17:38
um oh come back always come back to e so
01:17:42
are you proud of yourself am I proud of
01:17:44
myself I'm comfortable with myself uh
01:17:49
the word proud brings up what like the
01:17:52
way it's like assessing one's
01:17:56
existence and what one's
01:17:59
achieved not I I never try to go there I
01:18:02
just look it I'm just it's just a
01:18:03
Continuum Dominic it's a Continuum of
01:18:06
doing things you know and I've still got
01:18:09
things I want to do you know un
01:18:12
unfinished business um unfortunately
01:18:14
swery world uh was taken away from me
01:18:17
you know but I'd still like to be out in
01:18:19
the sea there's a lot more miles I'd
01:18:21
like to put in by myself at of C land so
01:18:27
if I get to put all those miles in
01:18:31
um and someone says you're going to die
01:18:35
tomorrow then I'd look back on my life
01:18:38
and come up with you know good better
01:18:41
best or or what you know was I am I
01:18:44
pleased with what I achieved but at the
01:18:46
moment I just don't ever go into that
01:18:48
head space just always looking forward
01:18:51
yeah yeah are you are you mindful of the
01:18:53
of the of the clock the clock of life
01:18:55
like um oh my uh my um partner's dad uh
01:18:59
he's the same age as you 61 and he um he
01:19:02
loves doing motorcycle trips like ride
01:19:04
across India or ride across Europe and
01:19:07
he s to me last time I saw he goes um
01:19:09
I'm just mindful of of how many how many
01:19:11
years I've got left that I can do this
01:19:12
cuz you know once I get to my 70s who
01:19:15
[ __ ] knows ABS it made me feel quite
01:19:17
sad Well it Well you know life is sad I
01:19:21
mean because we all have to stop you
01:19:24
know let's turn the amp off Let's Get
01:19:28
Serious yeah know well it is it's a
01:19:30
finite Journey maam it's it's so
01:19:33
unfortunate that we all have to stop you
01:19:36
know when you look at the um the
01:19:38
emotions and the love you know that that
01:19:42
gets imbued into all sorts of aspect of
01:19:44
your life and people you know um it's
01:19:47
terrible that we all have to stop you
01:19:49
know that's why
01:19:51
religion um with a heaven and hell
01:19:54
perhaps was invented by people a long
01:19:57
ago you know because it's hard to to uh
01:20:02
come to terms with the fact that you
01:20:05
just stop you know and as you get older
01:20:08
you know when I'm I'm 61 I look back 20
01:20:12
years I was
01:20:14
41 you know look forward 20 years I'll
01:20:16
be 81 well there's a degeneration
01:20:19
physically that naturally takes place
01:20:22
and you have to come to terms with that
01:20:24
and and at my age it's a very real thing
01:20:27
you go okay yeah so there is a you know
01:20:30
when you're 30 you don't really think in
01:20:32
terms of finite you know
01:20:35
existence not not really like you do no
01:20:38
no 100% I fully you maybe have a moment
01:20:41
a glimpse where you like if you lose a
01:20:43
friend to some a horrible disease like
01:20:45
cancer you might think about it but then
01:20:47
you just sort of carry on with your life
01:20:49
I've um you I've noticed with me just
01:20:50
the last couple of years I've started
01:20:52
looking at um age role models so like my
01:20:55
mom's in her 70s and she still runs
01:20:56
marathons and I'll see I'll see the
01:20:58
Rolling Stones on TV and I'll Google MC
01:21:00
Jagger and find out he's 80 and I'm like
01:21:02
okay so it is possible to have a good
01:21:04
life for an old absolutely yeah but but
01:21:08
you know Google 80 to 100 you know or
01:21:12
100 to
01:21:13
120 yeah yeah yeah it gets it gets
01:21:16
leaner and leaner in terms of people
01:21:17
that are living like full Rich you got
01:21:19
to be realistic but then again you can't
01:21:20
be pessimistic you know I think you've
01:21:22
just got to go okay this is the trip
01:21:24
we're on so you just make the most of it
01:21:27
while you can you know and and I think
01:21:29
it um with our generation it's it's
01:21:33
quite optimistic because you know people
01:21:36
are living quite healthy longer lives
01:21:40
you know yeah you seem quite healthy I'm
01:21:43
doing my best but I can't promise
01:21:44
anything I don't know I mean I look I
01:21:46
look at people like um Dave mcartney and
01:21:49
gr braia you know from Hall saor they
01:21:51
went out early 60s you know there's a
01:21:52
lot of early 60s where catch up with you
01:21:56
gr braia he um yeah he he had a long
01:21:59
association with um like drugs and
01:22:01
alcohol though didn't he over the years
01:22:03
I can't speak for yeah me yeah maybe I
01:22:07
don't know I thought there were rumors
01:22:09
yeah anyway um if you could go go back
01:22:11
and give your your younger self one
01:22:13
piece of advice what would it
01:22:16
be
01:22:19
no ring the bell ring the bell
01:22:26
should have got into the Marine industry
01:22:27
a lot earlier really yeah it's it it
01:22:32
does s like being a small country like
01:22:34
New Zealand that you can be like the
01:22:35
absolute top of your game musically and
01:22:38
still there's no money to be made if
01:22:40
anything you end up in debt it seems
01:22:42
quite cruel in a
01:22:43
way I guess it is but you look at how
01:22:47
many people have participated in making
01:22:49
music and still do and I think it comes
01:22:51
down to the P primary thing is that if
01:22:53
you enjoy making music then where that
01:22:57
music takes you is of no consequence
01:23:00
because it's just the primary thing of
01:23:02
just mucking around with it you
01:23:05
know yeah see I'm I usually use open
01:23:08
tuning which is which means everywhere I
01:23:10
put my finger sounds
01:23:13
right it's a way easier to play way to
01:23:16
play guitar but I have an open Tune
01:23:18
today but you know yeah I hear you
01:23:21
what's uh what's the one thing that
01:23:23
people would be surprised know about
01:23:30
you I don't know I can't honestly I
01:23:32
can't answer that question I think
01:23:34
there's no there's there's I've got no
01:23:35
surprises really um yeah no you seem
01:23:38
like you're quite an open book um what
01:23:40
about your mental health how's your
01:23:41
mental health been over the over years
01:23:42
that's a good one like said this has
01:23:44
been quite a topic hasn't it that's like
01:23:46
even to be self um self-examining of of
01:23:50
one's mind State um it's not something
01:23:53
that was ever sort of we talked about
01:23:55
you know the loss of your bandmate um
01:23:57
Steve in the 80s and that so yeah and
01:23:59
then John Coan had mental health issues
01:24:01
shortly after that but I had Mike
01:24:03
channan last week for a chat and he
01:24:04
talked about his EGR phobia and well I
01:24:06
remember Mike is that's well documented
01:24:08
isn't it yeah yeah yeah and it's but
01:24:10
it's not something that was ever sort of
01:24:11
labeled or talked about so I think it's
01:24:13
good good good to be sort of aware of it
01:24:15
now see how I'm avoiding the topic by
01:24:18
turnning my guitar okay no no no I'm
01:24:21
right with I'm just thinking you have an
01:24:22
answer but I mean have you been like
01:24:24
mostly happy like everyone faces some
01:24:27
adversity in their life but I mean what
01:24:30
you know it's not all about happiness
01:24:31
man like like solo sailing a lot of that
01:24:35
time is is so [ __ ] um difficult like
01:24:40
uncomfortable and lacking sleep and it's
01:24:42
like oh this is but it's what they call
01:24:44
secondary pleasure you get pleasure from
01:24:46
it having done it I guess it's you when
01:24:48
you're putting in your Miles when you're
01:24:49
running hard surely there's a lot of
01:24:51
pain involved there as well and a lot of
01:24:54
f
01:24:55
but it's when you but you're trying to
01:24:56
you'll get the satisfaction once you've
01:24:58
achieved the the the run is that correct
01:25:00
yeah that's 100% correct yeah so
01:25:02
secondary pleasure so um I'd say there's
01:25:07
the whole way along nothing's been been
01:25:10
like oh I'm having a great time look you
01:25:12
know look at me look at me just GL
01:25:14
glimpses it's like yeah it's kind of
01:25:17
like it's always you're always I'm
01:25:18
always chasing you know trying to get
01:25:20
the next song I like recorded or there's
01:25:23
just frustration
01:25:24
the whole way along it's part of being a
01:25:26
human you know so like I think this
01:25:28
whole mental health thing is being
01:25:29
overplayed by a lot of people that take
01:25:32
take advantage of it
01:25:35
um as a sort of
01:25:38
compensation not a prize um I just think
01:25:43
there's too much focus on Mental Health
01:25:46
when mental health is never going to be
01:25:49
that stable and normal it's it's
01:25:51
absolutely normal to be happy at times I
01:25:55
mean you look at all those people that
01:25:57
came back from World War II and World
01:25:58
War I I mean no no one was talking about
01:26:01
it but what was their mental health like
01:26:03
you know and what is me what really is
01:26:06
mental health you know um if I was to
01:26:09
say I've got great mental health because
01:26:11
I can I can cope with the unpleasant
01:26:14
things that I think about and and
01:26:17
pretend I'm I'm
01:26:19
really positive and healthy is that
01:26:22
Mental Health
01:26:25
wearing a mask in a way or fake it to
01:26:28
your make it I don't know well that's
01:26:30
true so like but how you know what
01:26:32
constitutes mental health when you know
01:26:35
as a human you're born to die I mean you
01:26:39
could start off you know you could hold
01:26:41
that realization of death from day one
01:26:45
if you were programmed with it
01:26:48
and what's your mental health going to
01:26:51
be like for most of your life it's a
01:26:52
bleak thought yeah well because it's a
01:26:55
reality so like you know how often do
01:26:57
you dip into that mortality trip and and
01:27:01
get bummed out you know or have you
01:27:05
found coping
01:27:06
mechanisms in your
01:27:08
life in order to maintain a mental
01:27:14
equilibrium yeah I don't know I don't
01:27:17
know I feel like you've given more given
01:27:19
more questions than answers with that
01:27:21
with that [ __ ] better
01:27:24
no but I feel like let's punctuate it
01:27:25
with something more
01:27:27
important
01:27:28
hey so this is my
01:27:35
C is that is that a song is that an
01:27:38
actual what song is
01:27:39
that it's called B so like this this
01:27:42
song for me these chords for me are
01:27:45
exactly a p personification of what
01:27:47
you're talking
01:27:48
about can we hear that
01:27:54
it's
01:27:58
Melancholy it's
01:28:00
Melancholy I feel like there's also like
01:28:02
a metaphor somewhere in there with what
01:28:04
you do with your sailing as well it's
01:28:06
like it's much like life like these
01:28:09
rough periods where you're not sure
01:28:10
you're going to make it through and then
01:28:11
there's periods and moments I suppose
01:28:14
where you're looking at the stars on the
01:28:15
full moon and it's just a blissful
01:28:17
moment
01:28:18
[Music]
01:28:26
lot like life it's Melancholy and people
01:28:29
used to call being depressed melancholic
01:28:33
that being melancholic melancholic is a
01:28:35
normal human emotion I think it's a
01:28:37
really positive one you know I remember
01:28:39
my father listening to bread songs you
01:28:41
know an Aubrey was a name not so orinary
01:28:47
girl but who Su blame for a love that
01:28:51
wouldn't play in they great song but mol
01:28:56
and's withing emotion so that's my whole
01:29:00
at the moment is
01:29:02
is
01:29:04
melancholy so so you sort of saying like
01:29:07
in in life when you have sad moments cuz
01:29:09
it's impossible to be happy all the time
01:29:11
you just got to lean into it a bit we
01:29:13
just got to um ride roll with it you
01:29:15
know um it's it's just part of being a
01:29:18
human because it's not just it's not all
01:29:21
just you know all up and and fun no and
01:29:25
you you actually need the need some bad
01:29:27
to appreciate the good right well I
01:29:30
guess you do but but you know you'd
01:29:32
rather have no bad but people make Such
01:29:37
trivial things into huge Badness you
01:29:41
know I mean just look at all the reality
01:29:42
shows with you know Married at First
01:29:45
whatever it's called oh that last season
01:29:47
was so good though but I know but that's
01:29:49
because we enjoy watching other people
01:29:51
having problems you know but really
01:29:54
I mean are these real problems I mean
01:29:56
are you really going on this show you
01:29:58
know to get [ __ ] off of that person
01:30:01
you know and then every and then all the
01:30:02
world to see it you know I mean is that
01:30:04
really what you're there for yeah you
01:30:06
know yeah it's completely manufactured
01:30:08
and I I'm full of self-loathing every
01:30:10
time I watch an episode but [ __ ] it's
01:30:11
good oh you get sucked into all those
01:30:13
sort of grity shows you know whether
01:30:14
it's Survivor or whatever whether it's
01:30:16
that little kind of pissed off look from
01:30:19
from someone about something I mean
01:30:21
that's you know so you know it's a
01:30:24
there's a whole spectrum of emotions
01:30:25
that we all have to experience as a
01:30:27
human before we
01:30:28
[Music]
01:30:29
die what do you what would you say your
01:30:32
best qualities and worst flaws oh these
01:30:35
are Big questions you should have given
01:30:37
me the these three weeks ago so I could
01:30:39
think about a proper answer it's sick in
01:30:41
the industry night night what say it
01:30:44
again what is it your best quality is
01:30:45
and worst flaws best quality is spraying
01:30:48
myself with water you you have done a
01:30:50
lot of that raining the
01:30:52
Bell struming
01:30:54
strumming my guitar and best qualities
01:30:57
oh for posture posture how's your
01:31:00
posture don't um just just just no it's
01:31:03
not it's not great I don't think just
01:31:04
def what would I don't I I honestly I
01:31:07
honestly the the people that love you
01:31:08
like your boys what would they what
01:31:10
would they say about you what are your
01:31:11
best qualities what would they say
01:31:12
someone that knows you really
01:31:14
well feel like I've got to know you a
01:31:16
bit better today but I still don't know
01:31:17
the real Andrew andw [ __ ] I don't know
01:31:21
Dominic I mean best qualities uh um
01:31:25
perseverance uh sense of humor hopefully
01:31:28
always I always Veer towards humor um at
01:31:32
the worst of times if possible I don't
01:31:35
know what's that is that a good quality
01:31:36
or a bad quality what what's the other
01:31:38
one what's your worst things yeah your
01:31:40
worst flaws oh while we're talking best
01:31:42
quality I'd also say from my encounters
01:31:44
with you over sh like 40 years now
01:31:47
you've always been you've always been
01:31:48
particularly kind kind yeah I say you've
01:31:52
always been nice I I've never had had a
01:31:54
bad experience with you well that's just
01:31:56
human that's like that's just being
01:31:58
polite though isn't it you maybe but no
01:32:00
no maybe but it's still but no I like
01:32:02
you Dom I would always be kind to you if
01:32:05
I didn't like you then I wouldn't be
01:32:07
kind to you yeah I can be
01:32:09
evil is that one of your worst flaws
01:32:12
ability to be evil do you want another
01:32:13
big hit or what yeah let's give us a big
01:32:15
hit no I can't I can't play the big hit
01:32:18
what players all my my strummy
01:32:21
ones oh it's been plenty great today
01:32:24
really appreciate your time oh good to
01:32:26
be here thanks to for inviting me
01:32:27
Dominic yeah it's really cool honestly
01:32:31
like if um if if 12y old me thought that
01:32:35
it's this is a funny thing about aging
01:32:37
right cuz it's like to to me I feel like
01:32:38
you and I are like no different really
01:32:40
in terms of Aging it's 10 years but when
01:32:42
I'm 12 and you're 22 it's like
01:32:44
substantial you know I'm just this kid
01:32:46
that's a massive fan yeah course grown
01:32:48
ass man and then the the Gap sort of
01:32:50
becomes invisible really you know time
01:32:52
is a a strange thing like that like
01:32:54
those mockers gigs we did where you
01:32:56
you're playing to people your age too
01:32:58
where I was like when you were 11 I was
01:33:00
23 or something
01:33:02
22 and um yeah time goes by Dominic but
01:33:07
the the time um the time today has been
01:33:09
has been bloody great and I really
01:33:11
appreciate you bringing the props and um
01:33:13
I had way more to bring in being I know
01:33:16
there was like a we walked to your car
01:33:18
and you lifted up the back it's like a
01:33:20
station wagon and there was like so much
01:33:21
stuff in there but Luna wouldn't carry
01:33:23
anything Luna the dog so I'll give you
01:33:26
this boat this is for you Dominic so
01:33:27
this is um this is called devil on the
01:33:29
morat it's there's a there's a whole
01:33:32
movie that hasn't been made may never be
01:33:35
made it's called on plastic bag Patrol
01:33:36
that goes with it he's devil on the
01:33:39
mar sailing the high seas and fighting
01:33:42
up Bas double on the marad what is it is
01:33:45
it like a kid show on the
01:33:49
marrow yeah it's a um it's called on
01:33:53
plastic Patrol you've got a copy of the
01:33:55
book there as well um amazing yeah
01:33:58
Andrew actually wanted to bring a his
01:33:59
own fan in as well so that the um the
01:34:02
sales would be billowing yeah that that
01:34:04
looks really good um but yeah it might
01:34:06
have been a bit tight yeah but yeah so
01:34:08
that's that's a proper Sailing Boat
01:34:10
that's a toy and there's a few thousand
01:34:12
of those around the world and you just
01:34:14
throw it in the water and it sails at
01:34:16
right angles to the wind it's what we
01:34:18
call a beam reach so it's all about
01:34:20
introducing children to or anyone to um
01:34:23
any C to to that to that's a six piece
01:34:27
injection molded little man there I like
01:34:30
it how have you found today are you okay
01:34:32
with like reflecting on your life and
01:34:34
things no it's good no I'm I'm all good
01:34:37
I'm all good as long as you you just cut
01:34:38
all cut everything out and all it does
01:34:40
is start and then
01:34:41
[Laughter]
01:34:43
finish well there's um there's there's
01:34:47
nothing that I'll cut out but I say to
01:34:48
all my guest if there's anything you
01:34:50
want you want cut out if you wake up at
01:34:52
2:00 in the morning and have like a a
01:34:54
mild sort of anxiety attack about
01:34:56
anything you've said I'll cut it out
01:34:58
well what are you allowed to say you're
01:35:00
not I'm not allowed say what you want
01:35:01
are we still you still on here now yeah
01:35:04
yeah we're still
01:35:06
recording is there something you want to
01:35:07
say when we stop you should we wrap it
01:35:10
up now I just want to um you want some
01:35:13
of this from the
01:35:15
okay oh that's nice isn't it is that
01:35:18
just a performance thing or do you like
01:35:20
if you're just in your car getting hot
01:35:21
do you s I've gone
01:35:24
Beyond performance now Dominic it's just
01:35:26
me you know yeah it's like it is it is
01:35:29
performance but it's actually also quite
01:35:31
nice it is it's very a little spritzer
01:35:34
it's very refreshing um thank you so
01:35:36
much thank you for the Thank You For The
01:35:38
Music um thank you for the influence
01:35:40
that uh you had on my intermediate and
01:35:43
high school years um I told my sister a
01:35:47
couple of dayso I said oh Andrew Fagan's
01:35:48
coming front intervie she's like are you
01:35:50
going to are you going to try and be all
01:35:51
cool or are you going to tell him just
01:35:53
what a psycho fan you were um I've I've
01:35:55
got no shame about it like I I I loved
01:35:58
the music I loved what it bought to me
01:36:00
um and it was probably a time in my life
01:36:02
where I was maybe confused about you
01:36:03
know just being that sort of puberty age
01:36:05
and not being sure of who I was or what
01:36:08
my place was in the world and the songs
01:36:09
that you wrote then they um they really
01:36:12
meant something to me and listening to
01:36:13
them again the last on Spotify the LA
01:36:15
over the weekend knowing this was coming
01:36:17
up just reintroducing me you know those
01:36:19
songs to me it's been um it's been a
01:36:21
really cool experience I really
01:36:23
appreciate that Dominic yeah good on
01:36:25
you thank you Andrew Fagen bloody great
01:36:28
New Zealander one of the
01:36:32
best
01:36:34
not yeah done
