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Dr. Libby, welcome to my podcast.
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Dom, thank you so much for having me
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join you.
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I'm so pleased we made this happen. Um,
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just to time stamp it, it's 7:30 on a
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Tuesday morning when we're doing this.
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It is, and I'm happy to be here, even
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though I walked and my eyes are
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streaming, so I'm not actually crying to
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see you. It's bit chilly out there, but
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very happy to be here. Thank you. So,
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because it's 7:30, I've um I've got some
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breakfast options for us, which are
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they're all the Kellogg's range, and I
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wanted you to rate them from worst to
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first.
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So, we have Neutra Grain,
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uh Froot Loops, and Sultana brand.
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Uh
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this is um I'm overwhelmed with the with
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the potential here. Uh so, let's see if
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there are any redeeming features. Sadly,
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so much nutrition information these days
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is marketing and uh yeah, that's what's
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on the the front of a lot of these
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boxes. So, that they would not be my
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choice.
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So, what would you gun to your head?
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What would you eat and what would you
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not touch? What would you rather starve
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than eat?
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Uh yeah, I I just would starve. I would
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pass on all three.
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Really?
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Yes.
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Which is your favorite?
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See, this is interesting. So, I'm not um
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I I'd consider myself to be, I suppose,
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reasonably fit and healthy and
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reasonably in tune with my body. Froot
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Loops never. I know that's I know that's
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just confectionary.
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Yes.
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See, Neutra Grain,
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I mean, they've always got like an iron
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man athlete on the back. It seems like a
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healthyish sort of option.
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Will we look at the sugar content? Will
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we have a look at that? Look at me
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adjusting.
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Yes. So per 100 gram there's 24 gram of
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sugar per 100 gram and the World Health
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Organization says it's okay for us to
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have six teaspoons of added sugar. So
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that's all six right there with your
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brekie.
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Okay. So that's no good. So see Sultana
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brand if I had this I'd think I'm I'm
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doing my body kind of a favor.
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Well we have a look at what's in there.
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So it kind of masks itself as that.
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There's actually more sugar in this one
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than in the neutrorain. So in this one
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we've got 28.4 four grams of sugar per
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100 grams. So, we've maxed out our sugar
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for the whole day if we have that to
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start the day. And that's the trick,
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isn't it? Because and it's I think it's
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partly why there's so much confusion
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around nutrition because we kind of gets
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marketed to that things are healthy and
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food actually isn't healthy. People are
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or they aren't. Food is nutritious or it
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isn't. So, I go looking at something
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like that and go, what are the vitamins,
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the minerals, what are the health
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benefits? What are the what's the juice
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that your body's going to get from that
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so that it can operate at its best
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level?
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And uh that's why breakfast cereal is
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I'm not so much of a fan. Eggs for
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breakfast for me. Love them.
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Yeah. Have you eaten this morning?
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I have not. No, not yet.
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What would you have on a standard
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weekday morning?
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Eggs on gluten-free toast with a big
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side of spinach and mushrooms. If
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avocados are in season, that might go on
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there as well. I smother olive oil all
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over my gluten-free toast. Love olive
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oil. So what exactly is nutritional
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biochemistry and why why does it matter?
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So love that as the opener. So um I
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actually went to uni for 14 years which
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I know makes me sound really thick and
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like I failed everything or went to the
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pub too much which may or may not be
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true but um so I loved learning. I
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originally studied nutrition and
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dietetics and then did a PhD in
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biochemistry. So I combined my two
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degrees uh into the nutrition part
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obviously and then the biochemistry
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part. So what that means is every single
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second there are billions of biochemical
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reactions going on in our body that
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create how we feel and function and
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look. So one biochemical reaction is
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where let's say substance A gets
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converted into substance B and then B
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becomes C and on and on that cascade of
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change goes. So that's operating all the
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time inside of us. We don't instruct it.
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But for every reaction, so for A to turn
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into B, we need nutrients. So let's say
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you need iron and vitamin C to convert A
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into B. And if we become insufficient or
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deficient in either of those nutrients,
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then those reactions won't work as
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efficiently and then we start to get
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symptoms. But we're not taught to look
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at our health in that way. So that's
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that's what spins my tires. A great
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example is so our thyroid gland needs
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iron to be able to make hormones and a
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lot of people aren't aware of that. You
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don't think you think of iodine as a
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thyroid nutrient, but iron's really
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important. So, when I used to work with
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patients one-on-one, I'd be looking at
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their blood work, looking at blood test
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results for their iron levels, looking
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at what their thyroid hormones are
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doing, and if they were both kind of
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depleted, if you fix the iron, sometimes
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people's thyroid function improves. So,
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that's the juice of it. It really spins
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my tires.
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Oh, it really it really does. Um, yeah.
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14 years of study, the same number of
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books now. 14 books.
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Yes.
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Yeah. Yeah. Can I This is a This is a
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real personal question and um
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uh you may not want to answer it and
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that's fine and I'm going to be told off
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in the comments, but can can I ask your
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age?
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50.
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50.
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Yeah.
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You look amazing.
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Oh, thank you.
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The the reason I the reason I asked that
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is because um I would have I would have
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if if if you asked me to to guess your
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age, I would have said some somewhere in
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the 30s. But because you've studied for
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14 years and put out so many books, I
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knew it had to be older than that.
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You look great.
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Oh, thank you. That's so generous. Is is
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that a result of um like the right
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nutritional and dietary choices to a
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degree?
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Well, I think that contributes, but I I
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have a really happy heart. I feel so
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lucky that I get a turn on earth. So,
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I'm not I'm not exaggerating when I say
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I wake up every morning and think it's
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just such a privilege to be here. And um
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I read a book called the top five
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regrets of the dying and in Bronny
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Wear's the author of that and one of she
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was a palative care nurse and she
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describes how when she was looking after
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people who were dying they would tell
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you that they're going to miss the most
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ordinary things. They're going to miss
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someone's face or the feeling of their
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dog's fur under their fingertips or the
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night sky. And we have that now. So I
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honestly just feel I kind of let myself
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have what I have which is yeah this even
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when there's challenges it's yeah it's
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just such a privilege to be here. So I
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feel like that probably contributes
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and yeah so I would say just a happy
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heart contributes as well as my food and
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nutrition of course.
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Yeah. Do do you make poor choices?
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I don't see it that way. So I eat hot
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chips. I eat whatever I feel like. It's
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just that I'm mostly drawn to actual
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food, not junk. It's I feel that there's
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we've made food really black and white
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and full of rules and I worry about that
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for some people. Some people love rules
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and structure for others that leads them
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I guess down a more concerning kind of
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path and they can flip into say
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disordered eating for example when they
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live with a lot of rules and
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restrictions. So it's
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what was the question? Sorry.
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Um like do you do you find it hard I
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think to make the Rochesteres all the
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time? So it's what we do every day that
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impacts on our health. It's not what we
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do occasionally. And yeah, so I feel
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like hot there's a world of difference,
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for example, between having hot chips
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three times a week every week and having
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them 10 times a year,
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right?
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So would you Yeah. If you had to put a
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ratio on it, you you make the right
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choice like 95% of the time, 99% of the
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time.
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I couldn't even put a number on it cuz
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it's I I
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wrote a cookbook a few years ago or
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quite a while ago now. this probably 10
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years ago and in that I talk about being
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a flexitarian. So everyone was always
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commonly in interviews people would say
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to me how do you eat and I'd say it
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doesn't matter how I eat basically I
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just eat food and not very much junk but
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I'm so I'm a flexitarian or a
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qualitarian try and eat good quality
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food nutritious food.
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What about alcohol? What's your
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relationship with booze?
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I couldn't care less about it. So, I
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live in Australia at the moment and I do
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love a beer at the end of a hot day, but
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if someone said you can never drink
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again, I couldn't care less. It doesn't
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really feature as a I don't think about
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it really.
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So, if you're having hot chips, you
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might have a beer, but
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yeah. Or not. Just got on their own is a
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good time.
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Um, you've done so much work and you're
00:08:10
such a massive deal in New Zealand. How
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many people on the Dr. Libby team?
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Uh, there are six of us at the moment.
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Yeah. and they're really beautiful human
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beings. I look forward to seeing them
00:08:20
and yeah, they all look after different
00:08:22
parts of the business whether it's the
00:08:23
publishing arm or we have a supplement
00:08:25
company called Bioblends uh or there's a
00:08:28
lot of online courses and we create a
00:08:30
lot of free articles for my website to
00:08:32
support people. So yeah, it's um they're
00:08:34
beautiful humans. Love them.
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The the bookw writing thing, how do you
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fit it all in? How do you how do you um
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how do you think I'm going to write a
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book specifically about iron and and
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then come up with 60 to 90,000 words on
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that subject?
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I actually when I sat to write the iron
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book, which is my most recent one, I
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started writing a book about a
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completely different topic and I was
00:08:56
65,000 words into that other book when I
00:08:59
went, "Yeah, nah,
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iron is my go." And I'd already written
00:09:03
11,000 words about iron. So I went back
00:09:05
and kept going with iron because it's
00:09:08
yeah it's the one thing I think that
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changes everything for a lot of people
00:09:12
when we get that right. But it's I feel
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like we we we look after what we care
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about whether that's the environment or
00:09:20
our body. But we also I think we we make
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time we prioritize and make time for the
00:09:26
things that we care about. And
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we've all only got 24 hours in a day. So
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yeah, I think we um whatever we value,
00:09:34
we prioritize and yeah, it's important
00:09:36
to me to yeah, pull my knowledge is
00:09:40
wasted if it just sits with me. I was
00:09:41
the only person in my family who went to
00:09:43
university and that that's all kind of
00:09:46
wasted if it just sits in my brain.
00:09:48
Yeah. Oh, you said, by the way, we're
00:09:49
going to get to your background, but you
00:09:50
say the only person in your family that
00:09:51
went to university, but you're an only
00:09:52
child.
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Yeah. Of my cousins,
00:09:55
like the extended family. I should have
00:09:57
clarified. So, um, yeah, your first book
00:09:59
was called, um, Accidentally Overweight.
00:10:01
Um, this latest book about iron is your
00:10:03
14th book. I'm not going to make you do
00:10:05
this, but could like could you name them
00:10:07
all?
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Yes,
00:10:08
you could. Absolutely. Children, if you
00:10:10
kids, you can just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:12
Um, and where do you live now? You're in
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the Gold Coast.
00:10:14
Yeah, in Burley Heads.
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Yeah.
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And you you love um roller skating. You
00:10:18
go roller roller skating in your spare
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time. I think I read this in an article.
00:10:22
I do. Yeah. I skated I roller skated for
00:10:26
sport as a child at at high school and
00:10:29
my best friend and I had a ball doing
00:10:31
that and uh we reinvigorated that for
00:10:34
our 50th birthday parties last year. So
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yeah, I turned up in roller skates to
00:10:38
her 50th and had no idea if I'd still be
00:10:40
able to do it. I thought I'll just wear
00:10:41
them for 10 minutes and bring her some
00:10:43
joy, but no, I could still do it. So I
00:10:45
lasted eight hours in my skates all
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night.
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Do you go right?
00:10:47
So these days I actually do. It's
00:10:50
astonishing. I love a big concrete car
00:10:52
park to just zoom around. But for my
00:10:54
50th, um it was super low key. Um but on
00:10:59
the while I was while I was in the same
00:11:02
town as my besties, they organized a and
00:11:04
there they rented an empty concrete
00:11:06
warehouse and put laser lights all
00:11:09
around it and just told me to show up
00:11:11
with my skates and she created a roller
00:11:13
skating rink like we used to have when
00:11:15
we were kids for my 50th. I'll never
00:11:17
ever get over it.
00:11:18
Oh my god, that is amazing. Yeah. Are
00:11:19
you not scared of like breaking a collar
00:11:21
bone or rolling?
00:11:22
No, I don't think about that. Trust the
00:11:25
process.
00:11:27
What's meant to be is meant to be.
00:11:29
So, you spent um seven years living in
00:11:30
New Zealand. What What were when were
00:11:32
they from?
00:11:34
2007 to 2014,
00:11:36
right? Is that sort of when you became
00:11:37
like a big deal here? You're you're
00:11:39
massive here, eh? Like uh I'd say it's
00:11:41
close to being a household name as what
00:11:43
someone can be in NZ. Like you're so
00:11:45
loved and respected here.
00:11:46
Oh, that's so generous. Thank you. Well,
00:11:49
I so I started I'd been speaking and
00:11:52
writing, but that um my ex-husband
00:11:55
helped me to start a business here and
00:11:57
to kind of formalize, I guess, my
00:11:59
offering. So, yeah, when I moved here, I
00:12:03
got some I was offered some really
00:12:04
generous opportunities quite quickly.
00:12:06
So, a magazine offered for me to start
00:12:08
writing and I used to do a lot of free
00:12:10
seminars, free talks because I loved
00:12:12
speaking and yeah, so that sort of
00:12:15
helped people get to know me, I guess.
00:12:17
And um yeah, I I try to make health
00:12:20
information really common sense. And I
00:12:23
think it seemed that it hit a chord. It
00:12:26
seemed to hit a mark that there was
00:12:27
already a lot of confusion that's only
00:12:29
intensified. But yeah, I try to just
00:12:31
help people make sense of how to take
00:12:33
care of themselves. But beyond that,
00:12:35
I try to I guess sort of help people to
00:12:39
appreciate themselves a bit a bit more.
00:12:41
cuz if we knew who we truly are, I think
00:12:43
we would be in awe if we really
00:12:45
understood how our actual Earth suit
00:12:47
operates. And so I try to get people to
00:12:50
spend just a little bit more time in
00:12:51
touch with that. And so people tell me
00:12:54
that that comes through in how I
00:12:55
communicate. And so I think that's
00:12:57
probably why it it connected and I think
00:12:59
a common sense kind of approach.
00:13:01
That that's so interesting to hear about
00:13:02
you doing all the free talks early on. I
00:13:04
was listening to Mel Robbins podcast
00:13:05
over the weekend. Exactly the same for
00:13:07
her and it's I suppose in a way it's
00:13:08
like sharpening your axe.
00:13:10
Yeah, it is. you get you you practice
00:13:11
and also it's an offering isn't it? It's
00:13:14
a
00:13:15
um you know you if this interests you
00:13:18
come and come and tune in and there's no
00:13:19
barrier and then what I found as well
00:13:22
down the track sometimes even just a
00:13:26
little expense helps people to lock in a
00:13:28
commitment. So certainly when I was
00:13:29
seeing patients, I saw some incredibly
00:13:32
generous people over the time and they
00:13:34
would say, "I've gotten a lot out of
00:13:36
this session, so I want to pay for
00:13:38
someone else to come along and do this."
00:13:40
And the other person would come, but
00:13:42
they wouldn't necessarily
00:13:44
embrace what was being offered. So
00:13:46
sometimes an exchange of money actually
00:13:48
helps people to follow through on a
00:13:50
commitment or which, yeah, we could dive
00:13:52
into the psychology of that, but
00:13:54
probably not that worthwhile, but yeah.
00:13:55
So, and so we moved from offering all
00:13:58
the free talks to I think the first one
00:14:00
I did was then $5 and $10. So,
00:14:02
yeah, just got a little bit of skin in
00:14:03
the game.
00:14:03
Yeah, that's it.
00:14:04
Um I just realized you're on the waters.
00:14:06
I'm on a um a trim milk latte. Um
00:14:09
Yeah. Is this okay?
00:14:11
Well, I I enjoy coffee in the morning
00:14:14
and uh there's I I think we need to know
00:14:17
be honest with ourselves really just
00:14:19
about how caffeine affects us. So, some
00:14:21
people caffeine drives the some of your
00:14:23
listeners going to want to block their
00:14:24
ears right now. Caffeine drives a
00:14:26
production of adrenaline and adrenaline
00:14:28
is the hormone behind anxious anxious
00:14:30
feelings. So some people are just
00:14:33
generally they don't really sweat the
00:14:35
small stuff whereas and so coffee
00:14:37
probably just helps their brain focus a
00:14:39
bit better for a couple of hours whereas
00:14:40
other people are real worriers. They're
00:14:42
already really anxious and I think
00:14:43
caffeine can push them into an
00:14:45
uncomfortable place. So it's sort of
00:14:47
just noticing how we're affected by it.
00:14:49
Great. Is it is it is it um I don't know
00:14:52
what the word I'm looking for is but
00:14:54
like having the amount of knowledge you
00:14:55
have like does it just yeah I don't know
00:14:59
I don't think about it like if you it's
00:15:02
just I don't know just somehow I've well
00:15:05
I've studied it I've learned it but I'm
00:15:07
I'm really curious I my patients over
00:15:09
the years taught me so much they um
00:15:12
they're probably you know up there
00:15:14
they're my biggest teachers really cuz
00:15:16
you really notice what makes a
00:15:17
difference for people and what doesn't
00:15:18
and it was where there's three pillars
00:15:20
to my work, biochemistry, nutrition, and
00:15:22
emotions or mindset if you like. And
00:15:24
that that third pillar, my patients
00:15:27
really help me to bring that to life
00:15:29
because
00:15:31
at uni when you study nutrition and
00:15:33
dietetics, you're just taught that
00:15:34
people will do, you know, what you
00:15:36
suggest because they're in a
00:15:38
consultation, but it's not the case.
00:15:39
They might do it for 3 minutes or 3
00:15:42
weeks or maybe 3 months. And it's why
00:15:45
the question that arose for me is why do
00:15:47
people do what they do? even though they
00:15:49
know what they know. It's not a lack of
00:15:50
knowledge that would lead a lot of
00:15:52
people to polish off a packet of
00:15:53
chocolate biscuits after dinner. No one
00:15:54
does that thinking, "Oh, I'm going to
00:15:56
feel so fabulous after I do this."
00:15:58
They they start and they but they often
00:16:00
don't stop and don't understand why.
00:16:02
It's and it's usually emotional or
00:16:03
mindset. And so diving into that I found
00:16:06
incredibly helpful for people to help
00:16:08
them make sustained changes.
00:16:10
Yeah. That third one, the the emotional
00:16:11
one, it's a it's a big one, isn't it?
00:16:13
Because I I I can eat pretty well during
00:16:15
the day. Like so far today I've had um a
00:16:16
couple of bagels with avocado on. Um
00:16:19
I'll eat well during the day. Then in
00:16:20
the evening I'll be watching TV and
00:16:22
maybe I'll be tired from work and I'll
00:16:23
have a couple of cans of Coke Zero, you
00:16:26
know, maybe half a bag of snake lollies.
00:16:29
Oh god.
00:16:30
Really? Yeah. What do you That's um Coke
00:16:32
Zero is probably um yeah, one of my one
00:16:35
of my weaknesses if I'm being honest.
00:16:37
Like I love it. I love a couple of cans
00:16:38
a day. How is it really bad?
00:16:41
It's just it's just fancy water, isn't
00:16:42
it?
00:16:43
Not really.
00:16:45
Do you sleep? How do you sleep?
00:16:47
Yeah. No, I sleep fine.
00:16:48
Okay, great. That's great. Well, the
00:16:50
caffeine's not disrupting you. So,
00:16:51
that's remarkable. But there could be
00:16:53
some different choices made there that
00:16:55
are offer you some nutrition. Offer the
00:16:56
earth suit some benefit.
00:16:58
Okay. Okay. Oh, thanks for that. Um,
00:17:01
God, this is going to make me question
00:17:02
everything I do after this.
00:17:03
Oh, we don't want that. We don't want
00:17:05
that. Just the right amount of mischief.
00:17:07
Think of it that way.
00:17:08
Um, actually, let's go back to the do
00:17:09
Dr. Libby earlier years. So, you're from
00:17:11
a place called Tamworth.
00:17:12
Tamworth. Yeah.
00:17:13
Tamworth. Yeah. Where's that? New South
00:17:14
Wales.
00:17:15
Country New South Wales. Yeah. So,
00:17:16
country music capital of Australia,
00:17:18
sister city, Gore.
00:17:19
My my best friend at high school, her
00:17:21
she became country music queen. She won
00:17:23
the prize and her one of her prizes was
00:17:26
a trip to Gore.
00:17:27
That's how she got her passport.
00:17:30
It's like the worst international travel
00:17:32
prize imaginable.
00:17:33
She was so excited she got to ride a
00:17:35
horse down the main street.
00:17:36
Yeah. So, it sounds like from what I can
00:17:38
gather your upbringing was quite
00:17:40
idyllic. like um you know sort of on
00:17:41
like a lifestyle block, chickens in the
00:17:43
backyard. Um e educational parents. So
00:17:47
if you picked an orange from a tree,
00:17:48
they'd be like you they'd explain to you
00:17:50
that it's got vitamin C in it and this
00:17:51
is good for your immune system. And
00:17:54
yeah, I grew up very simply. It was just
00:17:56
a household yard that wasn't a lifestyle
00:17:58
block. It was a little piece of land. My
00:18:00
dad really was a far is a farmer at
00:18:02
heart. Um he just never ever got to a
00:18:05
point where he could buy a farm. So
00:18:06
yeah, he just created the the housing in
00:18:09
the backyard for the chickens and was
00:18:10
always fascinated with soil quality and
00:18:13
he grew yeah some fruit trees and um
00:18:16
just stock standard things, you know,
00:18:17
herbs and vegetables and but yeah, it
00:18:20
was just a natural part of the
00:18:21
conversation. It wasn't a big feature,
00:18:22
but I have really distinct memories of
00:18:24
them talking to me about yeah, food and
00:18:27
um so I'm sure that's influenced me. But
00:18:29
yeah, it's a very it was a very simple
00:18:31
upbringing.
00:18:32
Yeah, foundational sort of memories in a
00:18:34
in a way though. I suppose it sort of
00:18:35
set set the platform. And you were you
00:18:37
like a daily a daily journal writer? A
00:18:39
daily diary writer?
00:18:40
Yes. You're so lovely to raise that. Um
00:18:43
my mom gave me a diary when I was four
00:18:46
and she just encouraged me to pop
00:18:49
something in there each day and so I
00:18:51
wrote down how many eggs I collected
00:18:53
from the chickens. That was they were my
00:18:55
very first journal entries. And then
00:18:57
occasionally um I'd write in there that
00:19:00
I ran under the sprinkler with my
00:19:01
neighbor. that there some of the early
00:19:03
journal entries which yeah so I still
00:19:05
have all of those books but she started
00:19:06
that daily writing practice for me which
00:19:09
I think was yeah it's part of partly why
00:19:11
I write books because I I really love
00:19:13
writing
00:19:15
um what about junk food as a as a kid
00:19:17
you know you even cuz even if you're in
00:19:19
a household where your parents are quite
00:19:21
um educated when it comes to food like
00:19:24
there's still kids birthday parties with
00:19:26
fairy bread or Cheerios or whatever.
00:19:28
Oh yeah. all of that happened. But when
00:19:30
um growing up in the ' 70s, the junk was
00:19:33
really only at birthday parties. Um junk
00:19:36
was expensive. So we didn't have it in
00:19:38
the house really. It was probably the
00:19:41
most processed food was tomato sauce or
00:19:44
Yeah. So cuz the junk was expensive, so
00:19:46
it wasn't wasn't available. I remember
00:19:48
being allowed soft drink was expensive
00:19:50
compared to water obviously. And I
00:19:52
remember being allowed to have one
00:19:54
bottle of soft drink for the school
00:19:55
holidays, whereas, you know, we have a
00:19:58
lot of people have it every day now.
00:19:59
Oh, it's so cheap now. You got to
00:20:01
There's a new world just around the
00:20:02
corner. You can buy um you could get a
00:20:03
like a bottle of pump water or a bottle
00:20:05
of Coke and the Coke's going to be
00:20:06
cheaper than the water.
00:20:07
And that's part of the that's part of
00:20:08
the challenge, I think, for so many
00:20:10
people. And that's backwards, isn't it?
00:20:11
Yeah. So, um university, you go to
00:20:15
university, you're there for 14 years,
00:20:16
first person in your broader family to
00:20:18
go there. Why why did you decide to um
00:20:20
go in the direction you did in terms of
00:20:22
study?
00:20:23
Uh so I had no idea what I wanted to do
00:20:26
and I would have I didn't have ambition.
00:20:29
I just had interests and things I was
00:20:31
really curious about and so I originally
00:20:33
started journalism because I knew I
00:20:35
wanted to write. Uh then did psychology
00:20:38
but that was a lot of dissecting rats
00:20:40
and studying and statistics in the early
00:20:42
part of that degree. Um but and then
00:20:45
realized that all I really wanted to
00:20:46
know about was human health and
00:20:48
nutrition and behavior related to human
00:20:50
health. So that's when I started
00:20:51
nutrition and dietetics and I was
00:20:53
fizzing from day one with that. So knew
00:20:55
that was my place.
00:20:57
And when did the trans transition
00:20:59
happen? Like when did you start to
00:21:00
become like Dr. Libby the brand you know
00:21:02
which is who who is I know that sounds
00:21:04
real wanky to say but um you know you
00:21:07
are you like you are you're like you you
00:21:08
know you don't even need a last name
00:21:10
anymore. It's just Dr. Libby.
00:21:12
When did that sort of transition happen?
00:21:13
Did you did you sort of fall into it or
00:21:16
uh Yeah. So, well, I just started Yeah.
00:21:20
I guess bringing to life the things that
00:21:21
were in my heart and in my brain and
00:21:24
whether that was with talks or Yeah.
00:21:28
books or online courses. So, that really
00:21:30
started when I first finished when I
00:21:33
finished nutrition and dietetics. I
00:21:34
started seeing patients. So, really
00:21:36
started to observe yeah what made a
00:21:38
difference for people. And then I got a
00:21:40
job working in a big health retreat at
00:21:42
the end of my PhD and
00:21:45
again saw a completely different
00:21:47
demographic of the population. It was
00:21:49
where stress was becoming a thing then.
00:21:51
So if you think back even 20 years ago,
00:21:54
well about 20 years ago, people really
00:21:56
started to talk about stress a lot
00:21:58
whereas prior to that we it wasn't
00:22:00
really called that or and that has
00:22:01
drawbacks and benefits I think that we
00:22:03
didn't talk about it so much. It's um
00:22:05
that became a big thing and I got to see
00:22:08
the big impact that stress essentially
00:22:11
had. So, and what I mean by that is when
00:22:13
people were essentially really safe,
00:22:16
physically safe, but their bodies, you
00:22:19
could see, was getting the message that
00:22:21
they weren't safe and it was coming
00:22:23
mostly from thoughts and perceptions.
00:22:25
And that led me down a whole other realm
00:22:28
with my work. And getting to see how we
00:22:32
create a lot of pressure and urgency. We
00:22:34
create urgency when it's not needed. So
00:22:36
there are times when urgency is needed.
00:22:38
Maybe your elderly parent has had a fall
00:22:41
and you get a phone call, so you want to
00:22:42
get there as quickly as you can. But
00:22:44
what a lot what I started to see is how
00:22:46
we've made a lot of what we do each day
00:22:48
full of pressure and urgency and it was
00:22:49
communicating something that wasn't true
00:22:51
to our body. I also started to really
00:22:54
see how people a lot of people
00:22:56
consciously or unconsciously worry what
00:22:58
others think of them.
00:23:00
And I ran before I wrote a book in was
00:23:04
it 2019 called the invisible load doing
00:23:07
focus groups to research some of the
00:23:09
concepts I wanted to explore in that
00:23:12
when I worked with when I um sat with
00:23:14
the girls aged between 18 and 25 which
00:23:18
was the youngest group I looked at. By
00:23:19
far and away, the two top stresses were
00:23:21
body image and social media. And when I
00:23:24
share that with older audiences, they
00:23:26
can't fathom how social media could be a
00:23:28
stress because they use social media to
00:23:31
catch up with their friends overseas or
00:23:33
I watch wombat videos. I think wombats
00:23:35
are the most hilarious creatures on the
00:23:36
planet. Um, so it's essentially
00:23:40
entertainment. And so when for the for
00:23:44
the next group, the 35 to 55 year olds,
00:23:46
it wasn't the top one, but a really
00:23:47
common stress was running late. But that
00:23:49
doesn't stress everybody out. So that's
00:23:51
kind of how you know it's not real. And
00:23:54
essentially when we get stressed about
00:23:56
running late, quite often what's
00:23:57
underneath that is we're worried what
00:23:59
the person on the receiving end of our
00:24:00
running late might think of us. And so
00:24:03
and so for the younger group the social
00:24:05
media is a mechanism through which
00:24:07
really they're they're seeking approval
00:24:10
whereas for older groups you know it
00:24:12
might be entertainment for example. So
00:24:14
what I started to see is that our stress
00:24:16
can actually be a mechanism through
00:24:18
which we learn about how mechanisms
00:24:21
where we're allowing others to judge us.
00:24:23
I know when I was growing up I would
00:24:24
have cared about what maybe 10 people
00:24:27
thought of me. My parents my best friend
00:24:30
um my ten I played tennis. My German was
00:24:33
my favorite subject. He was my German
00:24:35
teacher was amazing. There would have
00:24:36
been a boy in that mixture. So, but they
00:24:38
were real and genuine people who kind of
00:24:40
I looking back I think well they kind of
00:24:43
were meant to be in my heart whereas now
00:24:46
I think for so many young people they
00:24:48
care what thousands of people think of
00:24:49
them and most of them they've never met
00:24:51
and I think that's another part of why
00:24:53
it can be so so stressful. So I
00:24:56
encourage people to there's a little
00:24:58
exercise I developed from that kind of
00:25:00
work called exploring your forehead
00:25:03
words. So, I feel like people have these
00:25:05
traits written across their forehead
00:25:07
that they want other people to see in
00:25:09
them. So, a great question to ask is,
00:25:11
"How do I need other people to see me?"
00:25:12
And write your list. And in 2011, when I
00:25:16
wrote Rushing Woman Syndrome, the things
00:25:18
that the women said were, "I need to be
00:25:20
seen as kind, selfless, thoughtful." And
00:25:23
so, they would run themselves ragged
00:25:25
trying to prove to everybody that they
00:25:27
were that.
00:25:28
Other people say, "I need to be seen as
00:25:29
competent, hardworking, efficient." And
00:25:32
so so often we we're so determined to
00:25:35
make others see that in us. When we get
00:25:37
stressed, it's often because we're
00:25:39
perceiving that someone is seeing us in
00:25:41
the opposite way to those foreign words.
00:25:43
And so with that kind of insight, it
00:25:46
changes the stress we create for
00:25:48
ourselves and it often fosters a much
00:25:50
deeper conversation. You can go to your
00:25:52
boss and say, "Hey, you know, I'm so
00:25:53
sorry I was running late for that
00:25:55
meeting. A whole world of chaos broke
00:25:57
out at home this morning. I do my best
00:25:58
to never let that interfere with work,
00:26:00
but please know it's not because I don't
00:26:02
value my job or care. You know, they're
00:26:04
going to think you're a gem for
00:26:06
expressing yourself and being so
00:26:07
vulnerable. And also, for the rest of a
00:26:09
day like that, you won't feel like
00:26:10
you've got to prove yourself. You'll
00:26:12
just conduct yourself as your usual
00:26:13
competent, hardworking self.
00:26:15
So, yeah, I try to dive deep into stuff.
00:26:18
What stresses you out?
00:26:20
Um,
00:26:22
my parents' health and happiness. That's
00:26:25
a big one for me as an only child.
00:26:26
They're really beautiful human beings. I
00:26:28
feel very very um fortunate that um
00:26:32
yeah, they raised me in their simple
00:26:35
kind way. They're very kind people. So
00:26:37
yeah, they're elderly now and yeah,
00:26:40
supporting them is really important to
00:26:41
me. So if they're not quite right, that
00:26:43
probably gets under my skin a little bit
00:26:44
and I I feel like I I want to do more.
00:26:47
Yeah, the the sense of responsibility as
00:26:49
that only child is very strong for me
00:26:52
and that has Yeah.
00:26:53
Yeah. It's it's a a privilege but a
00:26:55
burden.
00:26:55
Yeah. it, as I was going to say, it has
00:26:57
drawbacks and benefits, that sense of
00:26:59
responsibility and um but yeah, I'm
00:27:02
really really fortunate that um that
00:27:04
they're still around.
00:27:05
Yeah.
00:27:06
Yeah. You you and I you and I have got
00:27:08
some um fun adventures coming up cuz I'm
00:27:09
I'm 52. Both my parents are still alive
00:27:12
and um you know, I know it's only a
00:27:14
matter of time. Like it's a privileged
00:27:16
position to be in, right? To be in our
00:27:17
50s and have both parents still alive.
00:27:19
Exactly.
00:27:19
Other people aren't so lucky, but um
00:27:21
yeah, we know there's some some gritty
00:27:23
stuff coming up for both of us.
00:27:25
Yeah.
00:27:26
And in saying that, none of us ever know
00:27:28
when our time is up, not to be morbid.
00:27:30
So, it's um you know, we can never
00:27:32
predict how things are going to unfold.
00:27:34
And I think it's yeah, so great to
00:27:36
have awareness of that. And I think it
00:27:38
makes us appreciate being here so much
00:27:40
more.
00:27:40
Yeah. What's your relationship like with
00:27:42
social media, you know, just um looping
00:27:44
back to that because um yeah, I mean,
00:27:46
you're you know, you're middle-aged, but
00:27:48
you've got a massive social media
00:27:49
following. You're very active on social
00:27:51
media. Does does that stress you out or
00:27:52
get under your skin at all?
00:27:54
No. No,
00:27:55
it's not. Uh I don't I love connecting
00:27:58
in person like this. This is um an
00:28:01
absolute joy. And then I if if this is
00:28:05
then going to benefit others, then I
00:28:07
like to share that sort of content. I'm
00:28:09
not someone who's ever going to take a
00:28:10
photo of my breakfast and go, "Here's
00:28:12
what I'm having." That's
00:28:14
Fruit Loops.
00:28:16
It's um so I I I see it as I try to use
00:28:20
it as an educational platform or offer
00:28:22
some sort of what I you know something
00:28:24
that might value or benefit someone. So
00:28:27
yeah and I have help with it as well. So
00:28:30
um I have a younger person in my team
00:28:31
who is um it is her vibe so she's really
00:28:35
wonderfully supportive with it. You need
00:28:37
a younger person in your team that
00:28:38
understands the algorithms and the
00:28:40
hashtags and but but so you never get
00:28:42
bothered or stressed by if if if there's
00:28:44
a situation where people are coming at
00:28:45
you in the comments or
00:28:48
um well I just I I do my best to No.
00:28:54
Yeah, I do. It it definitely can that
00:28:56
absolutely can get under my skin. Yes.
00:28:59
Um and I just try to though keep it in
00:29:01
its place and respond
00:29:04
Yeah. using um I guess the intention
00:29:07
with whatever was behind what I've
00:29:09
shared.
00:29:10
Um yeah, so I just try to respond with
00:29:12
an understanding from where they're
00:29:14
coming from, but also an you know
00:29:16
considering where I'm coming from. So
00:29:18
yeah, but it it it can get to me, but it
00:29:20
doesn't last. I I try and put it in its
00:29:22
box and go it just is what it is. Yeah,
00:29:25
it's good to be able to compartmentalize
00:29:26
it. But it's hard because I think as
00:29:27
human beings, you know, there is this um
00:29:30
instinct that we just want to be liked
00:29:31
by people and then when you open
00:29:33
yourself up to a massive audience like
00:29:34
you've got 150,000 followers or
00:29:36
something, it's not
00:29:37
it's not possible that everyone's going
00:29:38
to like you all the time.
00:29:40
No, that's right. But I think then
00:29:41
putting but not requiring that I think
00:29:43
is one of the keys, isn't it? And that's
00:29:46
not always easy. But
00:29:47
it's where the something like the night
00:29:49
sky puts things in perspective because
00:29:51
you go ah it's all okay.
00:29:55
You've got so much gratitude, eh? I I
00:29:57
can tell you just you're grateful for
00:29:59
everything. Yeah. Do do you ever even
00:30:02
even when you do all the right things um
00:30:04
and everything you could be to make sure
00:30:05
your body is functioning as well as what
00:30:06
it could, do you ever wake up some
00:30:08
mornings and just just feel like feel
00:30:10
like [ __ ]
00:30:12
or
00:30:12
feel a little bit off? No.
00:30:14
Oh, I definitely feel I don't always
00:30:16
feel, you know, bouncy, but um
00:30:21
but mostly I feel bouncy. Yeah. And if I
00:30:24
don't, I see it as feedback. I see it as
00:30:26
information. I um very much believe our
00:30:30
body is our absolute best friend and it
00:30:32
is always communicating with us. And
00:30:34
sometimes I feel like the we have an
00:30:37
obviously an inner voice I think that
00:30:39
has our back that knows
00:30:41
when to have lunch, when to stop sitting
00:30:44
at a computer, when to go for a walk or
00:30:46
a run. And there's that voice that is
00:30:48
inside you looking after you. And we
00:30:49
just don't always tune into it. And I
00:30:51
think after a while of ignoring it, it
00:30:53
taps you on the shoulder and says, "Come
00:30:55
on." And it does that through symptoms
00:30:58
to try to wake us up, to get us to take
00:30:59
a different tack with how we eat or
00:31:02
drink or move or think or breathe or
00:31:05
believe or perceive. So, it's always
00:31:07
offering us feedback. So, I just I see
00:31:09
it as that when when it's when I don't
00:31:12
feel quite right, like, yeah, what do I
00:31:13
need to adjust or Yeah. And and quite
00:31:16
often it's related to something I'm
00:31:18
worried about. Little a little worrier.
00:31:20
Are you
00:31:21
can be?
00:31:22
Yeah. Well, is is that a form of stress?
00:31:25
Um, it's it's very quiet. It's funny how
00:31:28
I perceive stress. It's more like stress
00:31:31
for me feels more intense and
00:31:34
short-lived. The little silent worry is
00:31:37
more it's kind of deeper and reflects
00:31:41
more of what is actually really really
00:31:42
important to me.
00:31:44
Yeah. So, um that's it's funny. I
00:31:47
wouldn't even call that stress. All
00:31:48
right.
00:31:48
Probably is, but it's it's more just
00:31:50
showing me what I care about and
00:31:51
something I need to adjust.
00:31:53
So, the diet side of thing with Dr.
00:31:54
Libby is lockdown. What about exercise?
00:31:56
What's your sort of exercise routine?
00:31:58
Uh, so it's a little it's a little bit
00:32:01
off right now. Actually, I have a little
00:32:04
phrase. I have a vegetable garden and
00:32:05
when um when it's really healthy, it
00:32:09
means I have really great work life
00:32:10
balance. And when my vegetable garden's
00:32:12
a bit overgrown and needs weeding, um,
00:32:15
I'm usually working a lot. and the
00:32:17
vegetable gut and and exercise is
00:32:19
something that is not as big a feature
00:32:21
when yeah work ramps up. I prioritize it
00:32:25
less if I'm honest. So it can just be
00:32:27
yeah something like Pilates or walking.
00:32:31
Um yeah, I've really I've let my weights
00:32:34
go and I'll get back to that because I
00:32:36
really really love it. I feel fantastic
00:32:38
doing that. But yeah, I just I walked
00:32:41
here this morning. I I love
00:32:43
using my body for that and and for
00:32:45
gardening as well to be honest. But
00:32:46
yeah, that's fallen away a little bit.
00:32:48
Ex Well, it's got to be so hard for you.
00:32:50
So, as I said, we're recording this at
00:32:51
7:30 in the morning. After this, you're
00:32:52
going to the airport. You get a flight
00:32:53
to Invocal. You're speaking down there
00:32:55
at like it's it's it's full noise. It's
00:32:58
hard to prioritize exercise with a
00:33:00
schedule like that.
00:33:01
Yeah. And it's why so and I'm I will I
00:33:04
will though again um when there Yeah.
00:33:08
And it sounds like I'm making excuses.
00:33:09
Probably am. But it's um Yeah. It's why
00:33:12
I try and incorporate it. So instead of
00:33:14
getting an Uber here this morning, I
00:33:15
walked. So I just try to bring it into
00:33:17
my bring it into how I operate on a
00:33:19
daily basis.
00:33:20
Yeah. Worth noting as well um carry-on
00:33:22
luggage and also it's a reasonably steep
00:33:25
incline to the Pod Lab studio from this.
00:33:27
You're generous.
00:33:28
No. No. Good for you. Um
00:33:32
can we talk about your relationship
00:33:33
because there's a lot of curiosity about
00:33:34
or rather your ex your ex relationship.
00:33:37
Um because there's there's a lot of
00:33:39
articles about this and a lot of
00:33:40
curiosity about this. So, you married a
00:33:42
Kiwi guy called Chris.
00:33:43
Yeah.
00:33:43
You married when?
00:33:45
2008.
00:33:46
2008. Yeah. Yeah. What was the what was
00:33:48
the meat cute?
00:33:50
Um he um he's a really beautiful human
00:33:53
being with great energy and shared a lot
00:33:56
of ideas um with me right from the
00:33:58
get-go about how he heard me speak and
00:34:01
uh said, "It would be really great if
00:34:02
you crafted this into a book and here's
00:34:04
how I can imagine you could do that." So
00:34:06
yeah, he was very inspiring to me in in
00:34:09
the way that he could see that and that
00:34:11
that was possible and yeah, and then it
00:34:14
came to be and he helped me do all of
00:34:15
that and create all of that. So yeah, he
00:34:18
was a real visionary and yeah, made all
00:34:20
of that possible.
00:34:21
I say he sort of set you on the the book
00:34:23
path journey. I well I had said to him
00:34:25
that I always wanted to write one but he
00:34:28
really encouraged it and yeah could see
00:34:30
how it could all be structured and um
00:34:33
yeah was was was a a really key part in
00:34:36
the creation of particularly that first
00:34:37
one. Well all of them we set up he he's
00:34:39
a person who has an attitude of well how
00:34:42
hard can it be? So when I wrote that, he
00:34:45
the first one he said, "Well, we'll just
00:34:46
set up our own publishing company. You
00:34:48
know, how hard can it be?" And um he
00:34:52
yeah was really good at uh at connecting
00:34:55
with people. So he made some really
00:34:56
great connections early on in the book
00:34:58
trade and people were incredibly
00:35:01
generous right from the start about
00:35:03
stocking my books. Um and yeah, so he
00:35:07
was he really set all of that up right
00:35:08
at the start and continued to do so.
00:35:11
Yeah. Um, yeah, as as lovers, it it
00:35:14
didn't work out. And in 2016, um, you
00:35:18
shared a post on Instagram. I've got
00:35:19
part of that here. Uh, as someone who is
00:35:22
by nature an introvert and energized by
00:35:24
solitude, it is with sadness that I let
00:35:26
you know that in September this year, I
00:35:28
shared with my husband Chris that I
00:35:30
wanted to honor my introverted nature
00:35:32
and that I wanted to end our marriage.
00:35:34
Um, yeah. Just on that, do you think
00:35:37
that comes from being an only child?
00:35:39
like that that introverted sort of side
00:35:41
or that that craving of having your own
00:35:43
company
00:35:44
probably, but it's also being quiet and
00:35:47
going inside is where I feel like I
00:35:49
solve a lot of things and get a lot of
00:35:51
insight. It's really being by myself is
00:35:53
incredibly energizing and I I I need
00:35:57
that to to do the to do work in the
00:35:59
world essentially. So yeah, it's um part
00:36:02
of how I like to live and um yeah, so
00:36:06
yeah, that was that all unfolded and it
00:36:08
was a really gracious um gentle split
00:36:12
and yeah, he's we're still great mates
00:36:14
today. So
00:36:15
I'm I'm probably much the same. I think
00:36:16
I'm probably like um an an extroverted
00:36:19
introvert and that I can I can force
00:36:22
myself to do some like keynote speeches
00:36:23
and things. Um but I'm also quite happy
00:36:25
just to be at home in my own thoughts
00:36:27
and a lot of people that's their worst
00:36:29
nightmare. Right. That's right. No, I
00:36:31
love it. It's nice that you do, too.
00:36:32
Yeah. I think there's there's there's a
00:36:34
No one wants to be lonely, but there's
00:36:35
um there's a difference between being
00:36:36
alone and being happy with it and being
00:36:38
lonely, I think.
00:36:39
Very much. I don't think I've ever felt
00:36:41
lonely in my life. It's Yeah, it's um
00:36:44
and I'm sure journaling was part of
00:36:46
that. It was sort of how I worked things
00:36:47
out. So, yeah, really really appreciate
00:36:49
the time by myself.
00:36:51
Was that um a tough conversation to have
00:36:53
at the time? Like how like how long how
00:36:55
long leading up to that had you had
00:36:57
those thoughts that I need to be on my
00:36:58
own? No, not very long at all. Um and
00:37:01
then opened the conversation up and um
00:37:04
yeah, he graciously received it. Was
00:37:06
incredibly generous with the way um
00:37:08
yeah, we we let that go.
00:37:11
And um I I was going to say this is
00:37:14
quite unusual, but it's the same for me
00:37:15
and and my ex. Um you're still a very
00:37:17
big presence in each other's life and
00:37:19
you still have a great relationship and
00:37:20
you're still good friends, which a lot
00:37:21
of people find odd.
00:37:23
Yeah, they Yeah, some people do find it
00:37:25
odd, but yes, that's true for us as
00:37:27
well. And um
00:37:29
yeah, I think
00:37:31
he's he's a really good person, so why
00:37:33
would I not want him in my life? And
00:37:35
yeah, he's he's the same, so we still
00:37:37
have a laugh.
00:37:38
Yeah. Was it tough for him at the time?
00:37:41
Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. And um but as I
00:37:44
said, he um yeah, he was just so
00:37:48
yeah, gracious in in the in the way he
00:37:51
let it go.
00:37:52
What about you personally? Like do do
00:37:54
you would you would you you know, do you
00:37:56
believe in the one? Do you think there's
00:37:57
a person out there or are you quite
00:37:58
happy just to, you know, like go through
00:38:00
life on your own?
00:38:02
I have a beautiful boyfriend.
00:38:03
Oh, you do?
00:38:04
Yes, I do.
00:38:04
Congratulations.
00:38:07
Yes. Um, so he's a gem and he's a joy
00:38:10
and um another fellow introvert and uh
00:38:13
we have loads in common and yeah, it's
00:38:16
um the absolute joy of my life to to to
00:38:20
share my world with him. Yeah.
00:38:21
Yeah. How does how does that work with
00:38:22
two introverts?
00:38:24
Well, you just re you really understand
00:38:26
each other. So, you understand that when
00:38:29
you just kind of get the vibe that
00:38:30
there's some downtime needed and no one
00:38:33
takes it personally. It's just it is
00:38:35
what it is. And um but we have Yeah, we
00:38:37
have a lot we have a great time
00:38:38
together.
00:38:39
So, you you live together or you run
00:38:40
separate households or
00:38:42
No, we live together.
00:38:42
You do? Yeah.
00:38:43
Yeah. Yep. So, I'm away a lot.
00:38:45
Yeah.
00:38:47
So, he gets his quiet time.
00:38:48
You see Oh, you see you coexist and
00:38:51
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:51
No, it's beautiful.
00:38:52
Oh, that's cool. Um,
00:38:55
this might be too much of a personal
00:38:56
question. If you don't want to answer
00:38:57
it, that's that's fine. But, um, did did
00:39:00
you did you ever want to have kids or
00:39:02
you chose not to have kids or
00:39:04
No, it's it's fine to ask. Um, thank you
00:39:07
for being so careful in how you ask
00:39:09
that. It's not what I wanted. It was not
00:39:11
ever what I wanted. Um, I remember
00:39:14
sitting around at high school with my
00:39:15
girlfriends and they're all announcing,
00:39:17
"I'm going to have my first child when
00:39:19
I'm 26," or whatever it was. And I
00:39:22
really clearly remember saying, "I don't
00:39:24
think I'll ever have them." And um
00:39:26
couldn't explain really why. Um but you
00:39:29
know, I've never ever had that drive.
00:39:31
And I can remember when I was doing my
00:39:32
PhD, one of my professors was um in
00:39:36
biological sciences and he said, "You
00:39:37
just wait till you're 30. It'll all wake
00:39:40
up and you won't, you know, it'll be
00:39:41
what you want." And that never ever
00:39:43
happened. So um yeah, I it was just
00:39:47
nothing that um I felt sort of called to
00:39:49
do. So I have beautiful godchildren and
00:39:52
my friends have gorgeous kids so they're
00:39:53
in my world and I feel lucky to know
00:39:55
them.
00:39:56
Yeah. I suppose in a way your um your
00:39:58
career is like your children in a way
00:40:01
keeps you busy. I um I really wanted to
00:40:03
have kids and uh you know just through
00:40:07
you various reasons just couldn't end up
00:40:08
having it. And it's um it's an
00:40:10
interesting situation a like you can
00:40:11
choose not to have kids and that's fine
00:40:13
but if you if that choice or something
00:40:15
you thought the second half of your life
00:40:16
would look like is taken away from you
00:40:18
it's um it's really weird. It's a
00:40:19
strange thing to face.
00:40:20
Yes.
00:40:20
Suddenly you have this this vision of
00:40:22
how the second half of your life would
00:40:23
look with kids and then maybe eventually
00:40:25
grandkids and then when that's not there
00:40:26
anymore, it's you do have to reframe
00:40:28
everything.
00:40:28
Yeah, you do. Yeah. And is that comfy
00:40:31
for you or is it something that you're
00:40:33
still sort of exploring yourself and
00:40:35
getting comfy with it?
00:40:36
Well, you just have to deal with it
00:40:37
really, don't you? And and move on. And
00:40:40
uh except that there's pros and cons
00:40:41
from both. Like it allows me to have
00:40:43
like a very selfish lifestyle. Um
00:40:46
and it's because the choice was taken
00:40:47
away from me. So, it's sort of like a
00:40:49
guilt-free.
00:40:50
Yes.
00:40:50
But yeah, it's tough though.
00:40:52
Yeah.
00:40:52
I think to to recognize the benefits and
00:40:55
drawbacks and um see them both equally.
00:40:58
I think that that sometimes helps to
00:41:00
soften it in our hearts when there's a
00:41:02
little ache there. Hey,
00:41:03
100%. You got to find that silver lining
00:41:05
and the sooner the better.
00:41:07
It's sort of like the there's the thing
00:41:10
that happens. The kids do this really
00:41:12
well. So um there's a thing that happens
00:41:15
and then there's sometimes we make a
00:41:17
story about the thing that happens and
00:41:19
usually we just take the story forward
00:41:22
and I encourage people to take the
00:41:24
wisdom from the story and take the
00:41:25
wisdom forward and that all takes time
00:41:28
and it's why when we have you know
00:41:31
feelings that can be really
00:41:33
uncomfortable
00:41:34
from regret or sadness or whatever it is
00:41:38
instead of just letting that kind of we
00:41:40
know it's good and healthy to sit with
00:41:42
those feelings but instead of letting
00:41:43
them take away from our quality of life.
00:41:45
I think it's yeah, as you say, draw the
00:41:48
wisdom from it and let the wisdom, you
00:41:50
know, be be more of a guide or provide
00:41:52
the benefit that it has.
00:41:54
God, you're so wise, aren't you? like
00:41:55
nutrition nutrition and science aside
00:41:58
it's um have you have you done any
00:42:00
therapy or anything over the years or
00:42:02
you just read a lot of books or
00:42:03
I've read a lot of books and um yeah on
00:42:06
there I've been through patches where
00:42:08
I'll go and talk to a psychologist or
00:42:11
when there's sort of a big topic that
00:42:13
comes up that I'm not making any
00:42:15
progress with myself. I find that really
00:42:18
helpful. I've done that through patches
00:42:20
in my life and um until the insight
00:42:22
comes that I'm sort of there like this
00:42:24
little feeling inside where it just
00:42:26
drops and you think, "Yeah, that's it."
00:42:28
And I do try to do that by myself, but
00:42:31
uh I can't always we can't always. So, I
00:42:33
think it's great to have a trusted
00:42:35
friend we can communicate with really
00:42:37
really openly. You know, no holes
00:42:39
barred. I think that's a great privilege
00:42:40
in life if we find that person that
00:42:43
where we can express ourselves so
00:42:45
freely. Um but then times there are
00:42:47
times when a professional I think is
00:42:49
really beneficial.
00:42:50
Yeah. It just gives you a different way
00:42:51
to sort of you look at things or frame
00:42:53
things that you may not have thought of
00:42:55
yourself. E I I put put off going for
00:42:57
years and it was one of the I don't know
00:42:58
why. I think it was just scared and then
00:43:00
you go there and you realize it's
00:43:01
actually nothing to be scary about. It's
00:43:03
it's wonderful,
00:43:03
isn't it? Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah. And
00:43:06
it's so helpful. It's so helpful.
00:43:08
What about that vulnerability piece?
00:43:09
Like have you got some you got have a
00:43:11
really good inner circle of friends and
00:43:12
people that you can talk to and really
00:43:13
let your walls down? Yes, very much.
00:43:15
Yeah, my my two besties from high school
00:43:18
are still in my life. Very strong
00:43:19
presence. They're the roller skating
00:43:21
friends.
00:43:23
Uh yeah, and my partner, yeah, he's a
00:43:26
beautiful human who listens amazingly.
00:43:28
So, yeah. Yeah, definitely.
00:43:29
And and what what's what's he like? I I
00:43:31
know like us New Zealand men where um
00:43:33
yeah, we do find it very difficult and I
00:43:35
I understand that, you know, I've read
00:43:37
enough Bnee Brown now to understand that
00:43:38
vulnerability is a superpower. Um but
00:43:41
it's knowing it and still doing it in
00:43:43
real life terms. It's um you know
00:43:45
Yeah.
00:43:46
It's a hard thing to get over but you
00:43:47
see your partner is but is he good at
00:43:50
Yeah. He Yeah. And he makes things so
00:43:52
often it'll then transition into after
00:43:55
this really heartfelt conversation.
00:43:56
It'll just become incredibly kind of
00:43:59
playful and it and it just lightens it
00:44:01
after such a you know after something
00:44:03
really big might be shared. Yeah. it
00:44:05
becomes really playful and that's just
00:44:07
such a gift to me because I can be
00:44:09
really serious and really kind of get
00:44:11
boggled down in the detail of something
00:44:13
and yeah so the levity is a welcome
00:44:16
introduction in my world.
00:44:17
Yeah. Hey, thanks so much for being open
00:44:19
about that stuff. Eh, it's really cool.
00:44:20
Oh, thank you for asking.
00:44:22
Yeah. Hey, um I see on Instagram you're
00:44:23
coming in and there's like a a bunch of
00:44:25
um questions all over the all over the
00:44:27
spectrum here. Um so I thought I'd put
00:44:29
these to you. Uh top three to five
00:44:31
things to improve our health.
00:44:35
Golly,
00:44:35
is that too broad a question?
00:44:37
Um, well, it really depends on the
00:44:40
individual and it sort of depends on a
00:44:42
starting point. So, if someone's already
00:44:44
eating in a pretty nutritious way, then
00:44:47
I probably wouldn't start there. But if
00:44:48
someone is living on takeaway food or a
00:44:51
lot of junk, then eating more actual
00:44:54
food would be gamechanging. So, for me,
00:44:56
there's no such thing as junk food.
00:44:58
There's just junk and then there's food.
00:45:00
And as humans, all we've ever eaten for
00:45:02
a really long time is food. And the junk
00:45:05
is pretty new. And as I said, on the odd
00:45:07
occasion, no sweat. But when we're doing
00:45:10
it every day, it can take its toll. So
00:45:12
top three things would be eat food, not
00:45:14
junk. Uh sunshine, and
00:45:20
I would probably say connection. It's
00:45:23
hard to not say movement because we the
00:45:24
body benefits so much from moving. But I
00:45:27
think yeah that connection to anything
00:45:29
whether it's a partner, a pet, a faith,
00:45:33
nature, whatever it is, I think that
00:45:35
connection is really valuable to our
00:45:36
health.
00:45:37
It's funny that you said sunshine is one
00:45:39
of those things. I feel like the sun
00:45:40
gets a bit of a bad rap these days.
00:45:42
Yeah. Every cell, this is again why
00:45:44
biochemistry spins my tires because
00:45:47
every cell in the body has a receptor
00:45:48
for vitamin D. So if we to me that is
00:45:53
the classic signal that we need sunshine
00:45:56
because every single cell needs it. The
00:45:59
only other thing that every cell has a
00:46:00
receptor for is thyroid hormones. So we
00:46:03
know that the cells don't work properly
00:46:05
without thyroid hormone. So to me that
00:46:07
says vitamin D is so crucial to every
00:46:09
cell in the body working. So yeah, love
00:46:11
sunshine. I think we're coming to
00:46:13
understand more too about the benefit of
00:46:15
its light for uh circadian rhythm. So
00:46:19
having really good sleep wake cycles um
00:46:22
and for our energy across the day.
00:46:25
When was the moment that you realized
00:46:26
stress was silently destroying people's
00:46:28
health and what did that teach you?
00:46:31
Uh love that. So it was when I started
00:46:33
working in health retreats. So that was
00:46:38
2004
00:46:41
2004 five somewhere there. Uh, and
00:46:45
that was when I got to when I was able
00:46:47
to see what I sort of described earlier,
00:46:50
how for someone when they're really
00:46:52
safe, physically safe, then actually
00:46:56
let's categorize that there's very real
00:46:58
and genuine stress going on in the
00:47:00
world, there's very real and genuine
00:47:02
stress going on in people's lives.
00:47:04
There's also a huge amount of stress we
00:47:06
create for ourselves because of how we
00:47:08
think. And that's the part we can
00:47:09
change. So that's what I'm interested
00:47:10
in. So when I'm answering this person's
00:47:12
question, when I talk about stress, I'm
00:47:14
talking about the stress that comes from
00:47:16
how we think and from our perceptions
00:47:18
essentially. Um, so that's when I
00:47:21
really, yeah, it was around working in
00:47:23
those health retreats was when I really
00:47:24
got to see the impact of that and the
00:47:25
effect on things like sleep, uh, energy,
00:47:29
sex hormone ratios.
00:47:32
Yeah, that's when that really came to
00:47:33
light. And it's why it's for such a long
00:47:36
time we've just been told to manage
00:47:38
stress and that's not really working out
00:47:40
very well for many people. And it's why
00:47:43
I tried to dive into it and say let's
00:47:45
address the stress. So let's work out
00:47:46
what leads you as an individual to
00:47:49
produce stress hormones in the first
00:47:50
place and let's see if we can reduce it.
00:47:52
So for example, I really I ask people
00:47:56
for examples of just give me an example
00:47:58
of something in your day that stressed
00:47:59
you out. And a common thing I've heard
00:48:01
over the last few years is, "Oh, I'm
00:48:03
working from home and a colleague rang
00:48:05
me and says, "Where's that work? I
00:48:06
needed it yesterday." And if when I'm
00:48:09
speaking to a live audience, if I use
00:48:10
that as an example, I then ask the
00:48:12
audience, "Raise your hand if that would
00:48:14
stress you out." And about threequarters
00:48:15
of the room put their hand up.
00:48:17
A quarter of the room don't. And so
00:48:19
that's how you know that's not an actual
00:48:21
stress. That's how you know it's coming
00:48:22
from your thinking. So for what that
00:48:25
shows me is we don't always hear what
00:48:28
someone says. we hear what we think they
00:48:30
meant.
00:48:31
So whether that's from that phone call,
00:48:34
the colleague saying, "Where's that
00:48:35
work? I needed it yesterday." We will do
00:48:37
it with all sorts of things. So we hear
00:48:40
the request for the work, but often what
00:48:41
we've also heard is that they think
00:48:44
we're lazy or incompetent or inefficient
00:48:46
or not a team player. So we feel we
00:48:48
perceive disapproval coming from
00:48:50
someone. And that is a huge part of what
00:48:53
creates so much stress in our lives. And
00:48:55
that's why understanding how we think
00:48:58
can be a gamecher to stress levels. And
00:49:00
the goal is not to have none, but it's
00:49:02
to stop telling ourselves stories that
00:49:04
aren't true and actually address the
00:49:06
stress because our body responds to the
00:49:08
information we give it. So if we're
00:49:10
thinking thoughts that are creating
00:49:11
stress hormones, the body thinks our
00:49:13
life's in danger when we are thankfully
00:49:15
relatively safe.
00:49:17
And that's why people need to use emojis
00:49:19
more, right?
00:49:20
A smiley face or a thumbs up at the end
00:49:22
of a blunt sounding email can go a long
00:49:24
way.
00:49:25
Absolutely. I really need you to do this
00:49:27
smile.
00:49:30
Um you have said the body is always
00:49:32
working for us. Can you unpack that?
00:49:34
Yeah. So I feel we have a phrase we
00:49:36
often use the language, oh that happened
00:49:39
to me. And it can feel like that. I I
00:49:42
get that especially when it's really
00:49:44
really genuinely big tricky stuff.
00:49:48
And I think when you I had a health
00:49:51
challenge in my early 20s and I would
00:49:54
have said that that was it was very very
00:49:57
challenging and confronting at the time
00:49:59
and I wouldn't be sitting here talking
00:50:01
to you had that not happened. So it was
00:50:05
it so that's why I switch it to it's not
00:50:07
happening to us, it's happening for us
00:50:09
even when it's really difficult. And so
00:50:11
I don't want to sort of just say it's
00:50:13
taking the silver lining. It's
00:50:15
understanding how
00:50:17
or or or or deeply appreciating I think
00:50:20
how
00:50:21
our life is like a symphony of
00:50:23
self-creation that unfolds guiding us to
00:50:27
become more of who we truly are. I feel
00:50:29
like our journey is back to authenticity
00:50:31
and letting go of
00:50:34
expectations or other people's values
00:50:37
that have been shared with us that we've
00:50:39
absorbed unknowingly. And sometimes,
00:50:42
yeah, that the things that are we feel
00:50:44
are happening to us are actually for us,
00:50:46
guiding us back to become more of who we
00:50:47
truly are.
00:50:49
What belief about women's health do you
00:50:51
most wish we could unlearn?
00:50:56
Was it too Is it too hard to just do
00:50:57
one?
00:50:58
No, I can pick one.
00:50:59
I don't know if this is the one that's
00:51:01
just top of mind right now. Right now,
00:51:04
pmenopause is having its moment as a big
00:51:07
topic of conversation and that's that
00:51:11
has drawbacks and benefits. The benefits
00:51:13
of course are that women are finally
00:51:14
being better understood. Women who are
00:51:17
suffering are getting a lot more support
00:51:18
and they've needed that for for a long
00:51:20
time. So there's so there's so much more
00:51:23
information out there now for women to
00:51:24
get support and that's brilliant. My
00:51:27
worry is that
00:51:29
there are many women who go through
00:51:31
permenopause with mild or no suffering
00:51:35
and then other women suffer in a suffer
00:51:36
in a really debilitating way. So we need
00:51:38
to make space for all of those. There
00:51:41
needs to be conversations about all of
00:51:42
that and there the trick right now is
00:51:46
that if a woman gets any kind of new
00:51:49
symptom and they're between the ages of
00:51:51
about 38 and 55, there's a tendency
00:51:53
right now in our culture to go, "Oh, it
00:51:54
must be permenopause." And when we say
00:51:56
something's permenopause, we're saying
00:51:58
it must be
00:52:01
uh our changing sex hormones that are
00:52:03
driving that. When the new symptom might
00:52:05
be coming from iron deficiency or
00:52:07
insulin resistance or a thyroid that's
00:52:09
not working properly and when we just
00:52:11
blame pmenopause, we often don't
00:52:13
investigate what else might be there.
00:52:15
And the other the other challenge, the
00:52:17
other problem I see that I wish wasn't
00:52:20
occurring is women who are now in their
00:52:21
30s are terrified of permenopause and
00:52:24
they don't need to be because and again
00:52:26
I've done interviews in this area with
00:52:29
women going through permenopause or or
00:52:31
who are out the other side and the ones
00:52:33
who didn't suffer when I said did you
00:52:36
talk about that they said no and I'd say
00:52:38
why well there's no story to tell and
00:52:40
then other women would say I don't want
00:52:42
women who are suffering to feel bad I
00:52:44
kind of feel guily guilty cuz I'm not
00:52:46
suffering. But the problem with that is
00:52:47
younger women aren't hearing from the
00:52:49
ones who aren't suffering.
00:52:51
So it was one of the reasons I wrote Fix
00:52:53
Iron First to be honest because a lot of
00:52:55
women go into permenopause severely iron
00:52:57
deficient and it makes a big difference
00:52:58
when you change that. I'm not saying
00:52:59
it's the be all and end all, but it can
00:53:01
make a difference for some women. So
00:53:02
yeah, that that's a big worry for me
00:53:04
with women's health right now.
00:53:05
Yeah, that leads us to this next
00:53:07
question. If we got all the correct
00:53:08
nutrients, would we fly through per
00:53:10
menopause and menopause?
00:53:12
not necessarily all the right nutrients,
00:53:14
but that is the best most robust
00:53:16
foundation you could create for
00:53:18
yourself. I do without doubt think that
00:53:22
thoughts and perceptions and therefore
00:53:23
and stress essentially can be a
00:53:26
disruptor. But when we have um great
00:53:29
nutritional status, good lymphatic flow
00:53:31
from movement, from breathing nice and
00:53:34
slowly um as often as we can rather than
00:53:36
short sharp challen.
00:53:46
What's the biggest wellness scam you see
00:53:48
all over social media?
00:53:50
Well, does it change all the time?
00:53:52
Yeah, it's endlessly changing, isn't it?
00:53:54
Some someone just took my face and took
00:53:56
my voice and tried to sell weight loss
00:53:58
gummies and one of my friends mothers
00:54:01
fell for it. She trusts me. And yeah, so
00:54:04
Oh, that AI deep fake thing is alarming,
00:54:06
isn't it?
00:54:07
It's really really concerning and that
00:54:09
was actually how I found out about it.
00:54:10
My friend rang and she said, "I don't
00:54:12
understand why you're doing this." And I
00:54:14
said, "I am not doing that.
00:54:15
You're not doing keto gummies?"
00:54:16
No. So yeah, that one it directly
00:54:20
affected people who trust me. So that
00:54:23
was
00:54:23
Did that stress you out?
00:54:25
Yeah, it did. And and in the moment it
00:54:29
did and it also does for where all of
00:54:31
that can potentially go. It's Yeah, it's
00:54:33
it's really concerning and I don't know
00:54:35
what we can do about it. That's I I try
00:54:37
to when I when there's something that
00:54:38
bothers me or I try to find a solution.
00:54:43
That's I guess probably how I manage my
00:54:45
stress is try and find a solution. And
00:54:47
um I don't I can't we can't solve I
00:54:50
don't know how we solve that. M
00:54:51
yeah cuz I think if I was in that same
00:54:53
boat like my immediate thing would be
00:54:54
stressed out and I'd feel bad for anyone
00:54:56
that had been sucked in and then you you
00:54:58
pause take a couple of steps back and
00:55:00
you know realize the sensible steps you
00:55:02
have to go through to try and solve the
00:55:03
problem but the immediate reaction I
00:55:05
think is like stress and panic
00:55:07
it is because people are being affected
00:55:10
and they don't deserve to be. It's Yeah.
00:55:12
Yeah. And it's your reputation on the
00:55:13
line and all sorts of other things as
00:55:14
well.
00:55:15
Oh, she wasted her money on those
00:55:16
gummies. That was my worry.
00:55:19
Uh, what is something you'd never put in
00:55:21
your body, but everyone else still does?
00:55:24
[Music]
00:55:28
God, there's numerous things.
00:55:31
Some stuff I probably don't even know
00:55:32
about. Um,
00:55:35
gosh, gosh, gosh. Um, artificial
00:55:39
sweeteners. Yeah. So,
00:55:41
I like my Coke Zero.
00:55:43
Can we still be friends at the end of
00:55:45
this though?
00:55:46
Yeah. Artificial sweeteners. I would
00:55:48
yeah I would not let them go in the
00:55:50
earth suit and a lot of people are
00:55:52
having them like they're going out of
00:55:53
fashion and that's a concern for me
00:55:56
like a spa tame a spa tame is that how
00:55:58
yeah
00:55:59
yeah yep yep
00:56:02
but for my soda fix would I be I'd be
00:56:05
better having a coke zero than a a full
00:56:06
strength Coke wouldn't I
00:56:09
so I would just steer you right away
00:56:11
from that completely and get and it
00:56:14
might be too much but get a Soda Stream
00:56:17
and make fizzy water and then add some
00:56:20
flavoring to that cuz then you can
00:56:21
control the sweetness in it and yeah the
00:56:24
other things that are in it.
00:56:25
Some flavor like what like honey or
00:56:28
uh you could do that. There are
00:56:29
companies now making um additions for
00:56:32
those soda streams that have got really
00:56:34
low sugar. They've got really considered
00:56:36
ingredients and that can be a really
00:56:38
lovely afterdinner drink if you want
00:56:39
something like that.
00:56:41
What's one uh what's one wellness trend
00:56:44
that secretly drives you absolutely
00:56:45
nuts?
00:56:48
um a wellness. So,
00:56:53
it's kind of coming full circle now. I I
00:56:57
wouldn't say it drives me nuts. I was
00:56:59
more concerned about it. But when cold
00:57:01
plunging first came to be,
00:57:04
there are definitely people in the
00:57:05
population who can benefit from that,
00:57:08
but I was really worried about a lot of
00:57:09
the women who I saw as patients were
00:57:13
what I would describe as really depleted
00:57:16
with low energy, low iron, um, and
00:57:21
jumping into freezing cold water for
00:57:22
someone who's really depleted. That
00:57:24
worried me. So sort of that rushing
00:57:26
woman who might be in burnout,
00:57:28
that was a big worry that this wellness
00:57:30
trend was being sort of displayed as the
00:57:32
beall and end all for everybody because
00:57:35
in I haven't studied traditional Chinese
00:57:37
medicine but I have learned a lot from
00:57:38
it and I feel it does offer a lot of
00:57:40
wisdom. It's all about warmth and so I
00:57:44
felt these really depleted women needed
00:57:46
warmth and nurturing and support for
00:57:48
their healing and their wellness. So
00:57:50
that was one that I felt the blanket
00:57:51
statement of cold plunges were great for
00:57:53
everyone. That used to worry me. that's
00:57:55
kind of coming to light way more now,
00:57:56
which is great.
00:57:57
When when this stuff happens, do you do
00:57:59
you speak your mind or do you sort of
00:58:01
sit there and bite your tongue and let
00:58:02
these fadeds pass?
00:58:04
Uh it's more if people ask a question
00:58:06
then I answer it directly to them cuz I
00:58:09
don't ever I don't ever want to put down
00:58:11
something that someone is benefiting
00:58:12
from. And so that's why I'm not a fan of
00:58:15
blanket statements at all because I feel
00:58:18
that we we can be drawn to something in
00:58:21
our life for a period of time because it
00:58:22
serves us and then we can realize, oh,
00:58:25
it's time to let that go. That's a habit
00:58:26
that I've kind of outgrown or my my body
00:58:29
is no longer benefiting from also. Yeah.
00:58:32
So, it's more I I I answer things
00:58:33
directly rather than make the blanket
00:58:35
statements.
00:58:36
What's one daily habit most women need
00:58:38
to quit to feel better?
00:58:40
Being so mean to themselves. M
00:58:43
yeah. So the harsh self-t talk is can be
00:58:46
really brutal. Uh and the judgment we
00:58:48
pass on ourselves is usually what leads
00:58:50
us to continue to not take care of
00:58:52
ourselves. So for example, if let's say
00:58:54
someone eats a packet of chocolate
00:58:55
biscuits and they're treat a whole
00:58:56
packet and they're trying to not do
00:58:58
that, they'll usually judge themselves
00:59:00
really harshly afterwards. So they put a
00:59:02
comma in that sentence and say, "I ate
00:59:03
too many chocolate biscuits, therefore
00:59:04
I'm hopeless and pathetic and have no
00:59:06
willpower." and that we don't ever most
00:59:08
of what we think is not actually true,
00:59:10
but we're not taught that at school. So,
00:59:12
we don't get to the end of a thought
00:59:14
like that and think, "Oh, is that
00:59:15
actually true?" We just keep living our
00:59:17
life. And a belief is just a thought
00:59:19
that we've thought over and over again
00:59:21
and never questioned. And our beliefs
00:59:22
actually drive our behavior. So once
00:59:25
we've said that to ourselves many times
00:59:26
that we're hopeless and pathetic and
00:59:28
have no willpower after we've eaten too
00:59:30
many biscuits, eventually that
00:59:31
translates into not that you are just
00:59:33
because you ate the biscuits, but that
00:59:35
you just are that. So we take on these
00:59:37
beliefs about ourselves about who we are
00:59:39
or who we must be having done those
00:59:42
things.
00:59:43
Whereas if we could bring some more
00:59:45
curiosity and think I ate too many
00:59:46
chocolate biscuits, that might be true.
00:59:48
But if you then say, "I wonder what led
00:59:51
me to do that." Then
00:59:54
information will pop up. Oh, I skipped
00:59:56
lunch today, so of course I did that at
00:59:58
afternoon tea time. My solution is
01:00:00
probably to actually eat lunch. Or I ate
01:00:02
the biscuits because I came out of a
01:00:04
meeting and someone said XY Z, and I can
01:00:06
see my feelings were really hurt. Oh,
01:00:07
did the biscuits solve that? No. What
01:00:09
would solve that? Or maybe chatting with
01:00:11
them. So it it just helps you to pause
01:00:14
and I guess regroup. So, it's the harsh
01:00:17
conversations, the judgment we pass on
01:00:19
ourselves usually. Yeah.
01:00:21
What's um what about your personal inner
01:00:22
voice? What's that like? Is you mostly
01:00:24
kind to yourself?
01:00:27
Yes, I would say yes.
01:00:29
Um
01:00:32
yeah, it's very you were lovely before
01:00:35
you you acknowledged it before. It's
01:00:37
mostly one of appreciation. M
01:00:41
I guess I just wonder when someone like
01:00:43
you that's super super high achieving
01:00:44
and you've done so much um yeah are are
01:00:48
you ever sort of in the moment are you
01:00:49
constantly looking looking ahead and
01:00:51
seeing what's next?
01:00:53
No. Yeah, I'm I've sort of I've trained
01:00:56
myself to be in the moment at times.
01:00:59
I'm regularly ahead um jumping ahead. Um
01:01:04
but yeah, no I I I nature is very brings
01:01:09
me yeah to to be really present. My
01:01:12
partner's face really brings me to
01:01:14
presence. Um I'm very This will sound
01:01:18
absolutely nuts, but when I drink a
01:01:21
glass of water, I taught myself a long
01:01:24
time ago to be present with that. So I
01:01:27
imagined sort of swallowing sunshine and
01:01:30
that I taught myself that a long time
01:01:32
ago. And so that happens now on
01:01:33
autopilot because I just was so
01:01:36
appreciative to have access to clean
01:01:38
drinking water cuz I'm so aware that so
01:01:40
many people in the world still don't.
01:01:42
And yeah, so I bring myself to presence
01:01:45
through little rituals.
01:01:47
So sort of like a form of mindfulness
01:01:49
every time you drink water.
01:01:50
Yeah, it is. Yeah. Great way to say it.
01:01:53
That's really interesting. Okay,
01:01:54
gratitude is something I've got into the
01:01:56
last the last few years and if you you
01:01:58
know you look for three things every day
01:01:59
that you're thankful for or whatever you
01:02:01
can boil that down and go for three
01:02:02
things that you're thankful for every
01:02:03
day that don't cost any money.
01:02:04
Yeah.
01:02:05
Um and that's something that anyone can
01:02:07
do and it just makes you realize how
01:02:08
bloody lucky you are.
01:02:10
Absolutely. And to um
01:02:14
Yeah, it's the the fresh access to fresh
01:02:17
drinking water is something that I don't
01:02:18
know. It's just never ever been lost on
01:02:20
me. And um we had rain water. We lived
01:02:22
in town and had town water when I was
01:02:24
growing up, but we lived we had
01:02:25
rainwater tanks in the backyard. My dad
01:02:28
had gazillions of them all around the
01:02:29
place cuz he tried to water all the
01:02:31
vegetables just with the rain water and
01:02:32
we drank that and um yes, I've done that
01:02:35
for myself again now as an adult. And
01:02:37
yeah, I don't know. I just get a little
01:02:39
thrill from that.
01:02:41
Uh Dr. Libby, you say the body whispers
01:02:44
before it screams. What is a whisper
01:02:46
that most women ignore until it's too
01:02:47
late?
01:02:48
Lousy energy. So when and what I mean by
01:02:52
that is when you feel fatigued day after
01:02:54
day when sleep is not restoring your
01:02:56
energy, you want to look at that because
01:02:58
we just write it off to being busy or
01:03:00
stressed or maybe not sleeping as well
01:03:02
as as we could be. But that shift in
01:03:05
energy is your first sign of a rabbit
01:03:09
hole to go down or or or get to the
01:03:10
heart of it. And it's I wrote fix iron
01:03:13
first for that reason. Iron deficiency
01:03:15
is the most common nutritional
01:03:17
deficiency in the globally in the world
01:03:19
including in New Zealand and it's
01:03:20
particularly common amongst women across
01:03:22
the menstruation years pregnant women
01:03:24
and unfortunately also in children and
01:03:28
I'm obsessed with iron because and it
01:03:31
was I developed an iron supplement. It
01:03:33
took me five years of research to
01:03:34
actually develop iconic iron. So
01:03:38
that shift in energy can be if you're
01:03:40
iron deficient, get that sorted because
01:03:42
the ripple effect of living with lousy
01:03:44
iron is significant. Anxiety is actually
01:03:46
a symptom of iron deficiency. Now I'm
01:03:49
not saying for a second that all anxiety
01:03:50
is caused by iron deficiency. But you
01:03:52
know, you think about teenage girls,
01:03:54
they've started to menstruate. A lot of
01:03:55
them start sadly start to restrict their
01:03:57
diets. they can become iron deficient so
01:04:00
quickly and anxiety can then arise and
01:04:03
it might be coming arising for many many
01:04:06
reasons but I feel that iron deficiency
01:04:08
as a contributor is being hugely
01:04:09
overlooked. So your energy more anxious
01:04:13
feelings would be another sign. So
01:04:15
instead of just writing things off to
01:04:20
stress or being busy or feeling a lot of
01:04:22
pressure, having a lot on the to-do
01:04:24
list, try to notice what that really is.
01:04:28
Because when we just say it's stress, we
01:04:30
don't really get to the heart of what's
01:04:31
leading that to arise. So are the
01:04:34
increase in anxious feelings coming from
01:04:36
maybe you are iron deficient? Is it
01:04:38
coming from dehydration? Is it coming be
01:04:41
from because you're worried about a
01:04:42
conversation you had that morning? So
01:04:45
see if you can identify it rather than
01:04:46
just go, "Oh, I'm just really anxious
01:04:49
because I feel there's a there's a
01:04:51
tendency in our culture right now to
01:04:52
medicalize feelings and that can be
01:04:55
beneficial and the right road for some
01:04:57
people to go down, but I feel that
01:04:59
the other elements of that are being
01:05:01
missed.
01:05:02
So um yeah, energy and more anxious
01:05:04
feelings would be the two little watch
01:05:06
outs I would say for women. They're
01:05:07
little whispers getting you to go
01:05:09
deeper.
01:05:09
What What's the easiest way to get more
01:05:11
iron? Uh so it's rich in red meat, uh
01:05:16
muscles, eggs, and then our veggie
01:05:18
sauces, things like lentils, seaweed,
01:05:22
parsley, it's in green leafy vegetables.
01:05:24
The um veggie sauces need some vitamin C
01:05:27
to help them be absorbed, though.
01:05:30
What's something you do that would
01:05:31
surprise your most devoted fans?
01:05:35
I think that maybe they're angling for
01:05:36
like a like a bad answer like like you
01:05:39
always have the cookie time cookie on
01:05:40
the plane or
01:05:42
I don't know.
01:05:43
Um, so don't What was the qu Is it Does
01:05:46
it say bad?
01:05:47
Uh, no. Doesn't I suppose you can
01:05:49
interpret it any way you want, but
01:05:51
what's something you do that would
01:05:52
surprise your most devoted fans? I I
01:05:54
just assume it's something
01:05:56
uh decadent.
01:05:59
I don't know. You interpret that any way
01:06:00
you want.
01:06:01
Um,
01:06:03
I think there's been a lot of things
01:06:05
that would surprise you most of fans.
01:06:06
Like even the thing you said before
01:06:07
about imagining water as sunshine when
01:06:09
you're drinking it. I thought it was
01:06:11
cute.
01:06:12
Maybe they're going for the, you know,
01:06:14
does she eat hot chips or something
01:06:16
and
01:06:17
which we established earlier you do from
01:06:18
time to time.
01:06:20
Uh, okay. What do you think about Ozek
01:06:22
and the wave of injectable weight loss
01:06:24
drugs?
01:06:26
Again, I don't ever want to put
01:06:27
something down that someone's really
01:06:28
benefited from. My worry is the way that
01:06:32
they're being used. So, the GLP1
01:06:36
receptors respond really, really well to
01:06:39
bitterness. So that's we've known that
01:06:42
for a really long time and bitterness is
01:06:44
actually almost moved out of our food
01:06:45
supply. So our green leafy vegetables
01:06:47
are bitter but they're way less bitter
01:06:49
than they used to be. Um and when we
01:06:52
consume bitter foods it actually
01:06:53
stimulates those GLP1 receptors that
01:06:55
those medications are working on. And
01:06:59
I I guess the
01:07:02
the concern is the muscle wastage. The
01:07:06
concern is people going on to them and
01:07:09
staying on them for a really long time.
01:07:10
The concern is the nutrient deficiencies
01:07:13
that can arise because your appetite's
01:07:15
so suppressed. You're just literally not
01:07:16
eating enough food to meet your
01:07:18
nutritional requirements. Um so yeah, I
01:07:22
have it also doesn't get to if someone
01:07:26
uh is unhealthy as in their health is
01:07:30
being affected by how much body fat
01:07:32
their structure is carrying.
01:07:35
I then I understand why someone would
01:07:38
want to go there. Absolutely. I don't
01:07:40
know if it's going to help the person
01:07:42
get to the heart of what led them to
01:07:45
treat themselves like that in the first
01:07:47
place that created, you know, a lack of
01:07:50
health from carrying, you know, way way
01:07:52
way way too much body fat, for example.
01:07:55
So, I don't mind about the size. I'm not
01:07:57
talking about that. I'm talking about
01:07:58
the effect on someone's health from ex,
01:08:01
you know, significant excesses of body
01:08:03
fat. M
01:08:04
so yeah I don't know if it helps someone
01:08:06
get to the heart of that. So but
01:08:08
essentially in a physical way yeah I
01:08:10
worry about it's overuse people staying
01:08:12
on it too long and the muscle wastage
01:08:13
and the the nutrient deficiencies that
01:08:15
can happen.
01:08:17
Uh what's the biggest myth women are
01:08:19
still believing about their bodies
01:08:29
that they need. So the calorie equation
01:08:33
was
01:08:35
something that was really hammered into
01:08:37
me and my education. And I think there
01:08:40
are a lot of women around my age and
01:08:41
older who still feel like they've got to
01:08:44
burn off what they consume. And that's a
01:08:47
really I think that can be a really
01:08:49
destructive kind of mindset. There's no
01:08:50
nurturing in that. There's no caring.
01:08:52
There's no appreciation. It's just kind
01:08:55
of this deprivation mindset.
01:08:57
Calories in calories out.
01:08:58
Yeah. and that that
01:09:01
and yeah that that eating like a bird
01:09:03
because they think that's the only way
01:09:04
to maintain the structure that they're
01:09:06
trying to maintain. Yeah. I I worry
01:09:08
about the harshness of that I guess and
01:09:10
the the yeah the deprivation that comes
01:09:12
with that.
01:09:14
You've spent your life helping others
01:09:15
heal. Who helped you heal?
01:09:18
Oh
01:09:20
um anyone in my life I think we we
01:09:24
foster relationships with people who
01:09:27
you know so generously offer us all
01:09:29
sorts of things that can just be you
01:09:31
know a light-hearted conversation over a
01:09:33
dinner party and then someone will drop
01:09:34
a statement and you think oh that really
01:09:37
resonates or and and it's not like a
01:09:40
planned conversation that you've sat
01:09:41
down to have. It's um that you know just
01:09:45
people are so generous in what they
01:09:47
share and I I really trust the coming
01:09:49
together of of people in friendships in
01:09:52
as acquaintances just in a general
01:09:54
conversation like this. I'll I'll
01:09:56
reflect on this after I go away and
01:09:59
you know think about some of the things
01:10:00
you said. You have very soft eyes. So as
01:10:04
you know communicating with you because
01:10:06
your eyes are so soft it softens me and
01:10:09
I feel so comfortable and so open and so
01:10:13
that's an exchange that you know none of
01:10:16
us can predict or but I'll carry that
01:10:18
through my day and your generosity in
01:10:22
the questions you've asked and how
01:10:24
respectfully you've asked them your
01:10:26
interest in even wanting to have this
01:10:27
conversation is very touching and it
01:10:30
surprises me and yeah I it's it's such a
01:10:34
it's such a gift. So I the the healing
01:10:37
comes I guess in everyday interactions
01:10:39
in big ways and small ways, planned and
01:10:41
unplanned.
01:10:44
Thanks for that. That really gassed me
01:10:45
up.
01:10:48
I'll be I'll be thinking about this I I
01:10:50
do this thing after a podcast. I'll be
01:10:51
thinking about this all day and I'll
01:10:53
think about things that I I wish I asked
01:10:54
and that I should have asked or that I
01:10:56
should have done. You don't you don't do
01:10:58
that or you because I've thrown a lot of
01:11:00
questions at you and you haven't
01:11:01
pre-eread any of these from Instagram
01:11:03
and I'm putting you on the spot.
01:11:04
So when you're on the flight to Invoc
01:11:06
will you be thinking [ __ ] I should have
01:11:08
said that or I should have said this or
01:11:09
No,
01:11:10
you don't.
01:11:11
No, I I I tr I just I trust the process.
01:11:14
Um I Yeah, I I I love sharing stories if
01:11:20
people Yeah. I Yeah, your questions have
01:11:22
been delightful. But no, I don't sort of
01:11:24
reflect on that. I just I trust the
01:11:25
process. I
01:11:28
yeah, it's um I know I might sit there
01:11:31
and think I I should have told the iron
01:11:34
story better because it's sort of my
01:11:36
mission right now is to
01:11:38
talk about yeah fix iron first and
01:11:40
helping you sort of inspiring people to
01:11:42
really get find out if they're iron
01:11:44
deficient and correct that if possible.
01:11:46
Um iconic iron is the supplement I've
01:11:49
made is made from organic peas and it
01:11:51
contains feritin iron which has its own
01:11:53
unique absorption mechanism. So there it
01:11:55
I've said it now, but that'd be some of
01:11:56
the things I'd probably sit on the plane
01:11:58
and think I should have talked about.
01:11:59
Bioblad's iconic iron.
01:12:00
Yeah. Yeah. This has been this this has
01:12:02
been a very a very broad chat about um
01:12:04
Dr. Libby. Um not not with a strict
01:12:07
focus on iron, which is your um thing at
01:12:09
the moment. It's like the new book and
01:12:11
I've listened to so many podcasts over
01:12:12
the past week that you've been on and
01:12:13
it's been the focus on the iron stuff.
01:12:15
But um yeah, so let's get into that now.
01:12:17
What's like what what is what is the big
01:12:19
takeaway you'd want people
01:12:21
to know about iron? Why why should why
01:12:24
should they get your new book? Um so the
01:12:27
tagline on the so it's called fix iron
01:12:28
first the one thing that changes
01:12:30
everything and I encourage if someone
01:12:32
finds out that they are deficient or
01:12:34
depleted act on that because you can if
01:12:37
you correct your iron levels you can
01:12:39
then see what's left over because I
01:12:41
think right now we're attributing and
01:12:43
blaming symptoms that we're experiencing
01:12:45
or health challenge health challenges
01:12:47
we're experiencing on other things when
01:12:50
a lot of people are just living with
01:12:51
iron deficiency and and not dealing with
01:12:53
it whether That's, you know, one of the
01:12:55
symptoms in children is fussy eating and
01:12:57
irritability. So, it would change the
01:13:01
parents world and the child's world if
01:13:02
that was corrected.
01:13:04
Um, so understanding the the wide
01:13:06
implications of iron deficiency and
01:13:09
yeah, treat that and then let's see
01:13:10
what's left over
01:13:11
and buy the book. Get the book
01:13:14
if the topic appeals.
01:13:16
Yeah. Um, when do you feel most at peace
01:13:19
with yourself and when do you feel
01:13:20
furthest from it?
01:13:24
Uh,
01:13:27
good question.
01:13:29
You must be quite a homebody, eh? Being
01:13:31
an introvert.
01:13:32
Big home body. Love. Nothing better than
01:13:33
being at home. Love.
01:13:37
Yeah. The quiet in nature, looking at
01:13:39
the sky, looking at the trees, watching
01:13:42
light change. Love watching light
01:13:44
change. That'd be probably
01:13:47
Yeah. Um, a dance off in the kitchen
01:13:50
with my partner. that. Feel like myself
01:13:52
doing that. Roller skating. Totally feel
01:13:54
like myself doing that. Furthest from
01:13:57
myself. Um,
01:14:00
don't know if I feel like that anymore
01:14:02
these days.
01:14:03
Oh, what a great space to be playing in.
01:14:05
And the dance off in the kitchen. What
01:14:07
are you What are we dancing to?
01:14:09
Oh, anything. Anything. He's the CEO.
01:14:12
He's the curator of the music.
01:14:15
H
01:14:15
Have you ever had an unhealthy habit
01:14:17
that you struggled to break? And what
01:14:19
helped you shift it?
01:14:20
Yes. Uh, in my teenage years, I chewed
01:14:23
extra chewing gum like it was going out
01:14:25
of fashion. And
01:14:27
is that all right?
01:14:29
Must got artificial sweeteners in it.
01:14:31
So, no, not a fan.
01:14:33
Do you have that, too?
01:14:34
Oh, yeah, I do.
01:14:35
I know.
01:14:36
I have that one with plastic container
01:14:38
with 50 bits in in the car at all times.
01:14:41
So, yeah. So, that was a habit I was
01:14:43
really determined to break and um, yeah,
01:14:46
it took me a while, but yeah, did it.
01:14:50
Um you you are you are so in tune with
01:14:52
your body like if if you if you had the
01:14:54
diet I have for one day you'd you'd
01:14:55
probably feel like absolute ass right
01:14:57
you'd feel terrible and um but no this
01:15:00
is this has made me aware of this this
01:15:01
morning this conversation we've had it's
01:15:02
like um I think I feel pretty good most
01:15:04
of the time but the the reality is it's
01:15:06
my body's just been used to being
01:15:08
treated poorly I guess and I say poorly
01:15:11
in in in comments because I think I do a
01:15:12
lot of right things but I also do a lot
01:15:14
of wrong things you know what I mean?
01:15:15
Yeah. Um but again let your body give
01:15:19
you the feedback. So if you feel if you
01:15:21
feel really good then that's feedback
01:15:22
that it's all okay. It's um
01:15:26
yeah but maybe bit few less of those
01:15:29
fizzy drinks at night.
01:15:32
Is there a motto or quote that you try
01:15:34
and live your life by?
01:15:37
Oh that's a bit gorgeous. Um follow the
01:15:40
threads. So
01:15:43
what does that mean?
01:15:44
Yeah. So I don't actually I don't pursue
01:15:49
things. I don't sort of dream things up
01:15:51
and then go right I'm chasing that. An
01:15:54
idea might come or someone might say
01:15:57
something to me and then it's almost
01:15:59
like a yes no button on the inside. Do I
01:16:02
follow that? And I've learned I don't
01:16:05
always do you know I'm not always
01:16:07
exactly true to this but I do my
01:16:09
absolute best to really go with the yes
01:16:11
and the and the no. So when I say follow
01:16:14
the thread, it's to follow the yes even
01:16:16
if it doesn't really make sense to me
01:16:18
and at the time and like an idea pops
01:16:22
into your head or someone says would you
01:16:24
like to do blah blah. Yeah. I try to
01:16:26
really trust that yes no button.
01:16:27
So it's intuition in a way
01:16:29
I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:30
What are your best and worst habits?
01:16:34
Um
01:16:37
I just don't look at the world like
01:16:39
that. Um no I don't. That's a great
01:16:42
answer.
01:16:44
It's it's a non-answer, but it's a great
01:16:45
answer as well, cuz I know you're being
01:16:46
authentic and honest about it.
01:16:48
Yeah, it's it's sort of um I don't see
01:16:53
worst.
01:16:55
I understand the question, but I don't
01:16:57
see the worst as the worst. The worst
01:17:00
plays a role. The worst. I've created
01:17:04
the worst, if we want to label it that.
01:17:07
There's information in it. It's all
01:17:09
information and it's what I do with it
01:17:11
that so that worst is prompt if if it is
01:17:13
indeed the worst that's prompting me to
01:17:17
see why I'm choosing that. Is it a part
01:17:20
of myself that I'm being really mean
01:17:23
about or yeah, what's what's leading to
01:17:26
that worst kind of habit? So, it's not I
01:17:29
just don't see it like that. It's not
01:17:31
it's just not my world.
01:17:33
What a great way to live your life. When
01:17:35
was the last time you cried?
01:17:37
With you this morning.
01:17:38
I was really misty eyed before when you
01:17:41
said nice things. Yeah. So, this
01:17:43
morning? Really?
01:17:44
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really?
01:17:45
Oh, I can I cry very easy. I'm um I
01:17:49
can't hide how I feel cuz my eyes get
01:17:52
wet with truth, with authenticity, with
01:17:56
honesty, with appreciation.
01:17:59
Yeah, it's so Yeah, it's it's not quite
01:18:02
a daily occurrence, but happens pretty
01:18:03
often. Not a big blubbering cry, but one
01:18:06
of the the last big blubbering cry
01:18:08
actually.
01:18:09
Don't know if I can recall it to be
01:18:11
honest. They're there, but the misty
01:18:14
eyes are pretty often.
01:18:15
Gez, you must cry most days when you
01:18:17
when you do a speak like a speech. Like
01:18:19
you're often in the car after this. Um
01:18:20
I'm I'm imagining afterwards there's a
01:18:22
line of women that want to speak to you
01:18:24
about the impact you've had on their
01:18:25
life. Um and just the value you've added
01:18:27
to it. Um yeah, must be a daily
01:18:31
occurrence. you're doing these speeches
01:18:32
and then crying afterwards with just
01:18:34
just seeing in in real terms the impact
01:18:36
you're having on people.
01:18:37
So what what affects me is the shift for
01:18:42
them. So I honestly don't I don't think
01:18:46
about myself in that moment. It's almost
01:18:48
like there's this will sound nuts, but
01:18:50
it's almost like there's no conscious
01:18:51
thought. It's just I'm just It's just an
01:18:55
offering of information that someone
01:18:58
might take a little piece from and
01:18:59
think, "Oh yeah, I'm going to go to bed
01:19:02
earlier or I'm going to drink more water
01:19:04
or I'm going to eat more green
01:19:05
vegetables or
01:19:06
let's coke zero.
01:19:07
Coke zero. I'm going to get my iron
01:19:09
levels checked." Whatever it is that
01:19:10
something has arisen that they've then
01:19:12
acted on. And people say things to me
01:19:14
like, "You changed my life." And I I
01:19:17
say, "I did not. You just heard some
01:19:20
information and you acted on it. It's
01:19:21
all on you. And that the truth of that I
01:19:25
so I get goosebumps when I say that
01:19:27
because it's the truth. It's not me,
01:19:29
it's them. It's just, you know, lots of
01:19:31
people hear all sorts of information
01:19:33
that might benefit them and they don't
01:19:34
necessarily act on it. So, um, but yeah,
01:19:37
that's very moving when, yeah, there's
01:19:38
been a big shift for someone and they
01:19:40
share it.
01:19:42
Are you proud of yourself?
01:19:44
I don't think like that either. Um, I'm
01:19:48
very content with myself. Yeah, I like
01:19:50
who I am and I feel
01:19:52
really fortunate to like who I am. And
01:19:55
that doesn't mean that there's not
01:19:56
things that I don't want to change, but
01:19:58
I'm comfy with that as well. The the
01:20:00
bits that Yeah, I like who I am. I
01:20:02
appreciate who I am. I honestly just
01:20:04
feel so lucky to be here.
01:20:07
This has been wonderful.
01:20:09
Oh, thank you. First time we've met and
01:20:11
it's um it's been a really really good
01:20:13
chat. Real um insightful. Lots of
01:20:15
takeaways in there. I'm Every time I I I
01:20:18
go to the fridge for a Coke Zero, I'm
01:20:19
going to think of you.
01:20:21
But without guilt, you just just relish
01:20:23
it. If that's what you want to drink,
01:20:25
you just go, "How good is this? I love
01:20:27
the taste of this. This spins my tires."
01:20:29
Yeah. Hey, this has been a lot of fun.
01:20:31
You're a beautiful human. Thank you.
01:20:33
Um Oh, last one. Like goals for the
01:20:35
future. Where do you see yourself at?
01:20:36
You know, 60, 65. Just keep writing
01:20:40
books.
01:20:41
Yeah, absolut Yeah, I I think so. So
01:20:44
yeah, I I can't imagine. I have no
01:20:46
desire to to stop. I feel it doesn't
01:20:49
really feel like work. It feels like
01:20:51
play. Um so maybe when it feels like
01:20:53
work, I'll stop. I don't know. Um yeah,
01:20:56
whileever things arise that I feel might
01:20:59
off that might offer someone something,
01:21:01
I'll keep doing it. So yeah, I don't I'm
01:21:03
not a good planner. Terrible at
01:21:05
planning.
01:21:07
14 books. I don't know. I don't know.
01:21:09
I'd argue with that one. We could debate
01:21:11
that.
01:21:12
Hey Dr. Libby, this has been so great.
01:21:14
Thank you so much. You're um a national
01:21:16
treasure and it's wonderful to have you
01:21:18
on the podcast.
01:21:19
Thank you so much for all of your
01:21:20
kindness and generosity, Dom. It's been
01:21:22
a joy to be here with you. Thank you.
