00:00:00
this speaker is not on the program not
00:00:01
on the program but I did notice there
00:00:03
was a little bit of security here
00:00:05
today little extra security this is your
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saxs red meat moment yes all right here
00:00:11
we go little red meat for Sachs uh
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please welcome me in joining vice
00:00:16
presidential candidate jie
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Vance let your winners
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ride Rainman
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David and instead we open source it to
00:00:29
the fans and they've just gone crazy
00:00:32
[Music]
00:00:35
with hey
00:00:38
guys man good to see you man how you
00:00:43
doing time all right see you hey
00:00:50
guys welcome so Zach is GNA introduce
00:00:53
you welcome to the Lions who who's here
00:00:55
with us Z well do we do we actually need
00:00:57
a a big introduction here but I'll I'll
00:01:00
give you I'll give a few um those of you
00:01:01
who are really bad at context clues I'm
00:01:03
JD Vance I'm running for vice
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president and normally he's he's beside
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his wife Usha but now you get that's
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right she's at like the tarpits or
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whatever yeah yeah oh yeah we brought a
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three kids out here so she wanted to
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take and see some fossil stuff so
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they'll have fun good I'll say a couple
00:01:21
of things about JD because um he's a
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friend I think what what I think um
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really made me want to support JD for
00:01:31
for Senate and also for the VP position
00:01:33
is that I think he represents two you
00:01:36
could almost say
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contradictions uh back in 2003 when JD
00:01:40
graduated from high school uh you know
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this was after the Twin Towers had come
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down and we gotten involved in the Iraq
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War he was gung-ho to go fight America's
00:01:49
enemies and he enlisted in the Marine
00:01:51
Corps and went off uh to serve in in the
00:01:54
Middle East eventually he came to
00:01:56
realize that that war was a mistake and
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I thought that
00:02:00
really represents uh one of the traits
00:02:03
that we really want in in a vice
00:02:05
president or someone next to the
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president uh which is that he had the
00:02:09
patriotism and the courage to go serve
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America but also the wisdom to realize
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when America shouldn't get involved in a
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war so I want to
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[Applause]
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just the the other uh like I said almost
00:02:26
contradiction that JD represents is that
00:02:29
he had worked in the tech industry he
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had been a a venture capitalist he had
00:02:33
been in rooms like this and he
00:02:36
understands what it takes to make
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America a more Innovative place at the
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same time he comes from a part of the
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the Midwest Appalachia that's a very
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poor part of the country and did not
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grow up in a privileged uh environment
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at all and he still remembers those
00:02:54
people and he represents those people
00:02:57
and I think his ability to understand
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both parts of the country makes him uh
00:03:02
I'd say a pretty unique political figure
00:03:03
so with that let me stop and do you want
00:03:05
to react to any of that uh well you know
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first of all thanks to all for having me
00:03:11
I've been a big fan of the Pod for a
00:03:12
while I think my first appearance so
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it's good to be with you you know I the
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only thing I'll say to that David is I I
00:03:17
do think there is a deep connection
00:03:19
between the the poverty that I saw
00:03:21
growing up and the fact that our entire
00:03:23
economy is just less Innovative than we
00:03:25
pretend that it is and you know I know
00:03:27
you know Peter teal and Tyler K other
00:03:29
folks have talked about this but if you
00:03:31
look at the real innovation of the
00:03:32
American economy it's been in the world
00:03:35
of software if you look at where the
00:03:37
economy has been most stagnant it's been
00:03:39
in basically the heavily regulated parts
00:03:41
of the economy which is where 90% of the
00:03:43
people that I represent in the Senate
00:03:45
and 80% of the people that I hope to
00:03:47
represent as their vice president
00:03:48
actually make their living run their
00:03:51
business and go to work every single day
00:03:53
and I think that you know when I think
00:03:54
about tech one of the things I'd like us
00:03:56
to do is broaden the aperture a little
00:03:58
bit and think about innovation not just
00:04:00
in software but innovation in
00:04:01
transportation and Logistics and
00:04:03
Innovation uh in energy and the whole
00:04:05
Suite of things because unless our
00:04:07
economy is actually technologically
00:04:08
Innovative then the stagnant economy is
00:04:12
is fundamentally like the worst thing
00:04:14
and I think a lot of actually America's
00:04:16
pathologies right now stem from the fact
00:04:19
that we feel like we live in a very zero
00:04:21
some country because in some ways we do
00:04:24
right when when when the econom is
00:04:25
growing four 5 6% a year then Democrats
00:04:28
can kind of get what they want
00:04:29
Republicans kind can kind of get what
00:04:31
they want and it all makes sense if the
00:04:33
economy is growing between 0er and 1% a
00:04:35
year then I think it makes the whole
00:04:37
society and our political system a much
00:04:39
much much more insane and I think it's
00:04:41
kind of a subtext of what's been going
00:04:42
on in this country for the last 30 years
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um let me start by going back a little
00:04:47
bit I think three of us um initially
00:04:51
would have been described sort of like
00:04:53
you know non-trump people yeah um and in
00:04:57
different ways and shapes and form we
00:04:59
were all V about it because of what was
00:05:01
presented to us through the filter of
00:05:03
the media and we've all gone through an
00:05:05
evolution in large part by meeting the
00:05:07
person and this is the first time
00:05:09
actually where a presidential candidate
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I've known and I've kind of known a vice
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presidental candidate in this case as
00:05:14
well get try you know they try to Corner
00:05:17
you and paint you in a certain way can
00:05:19
you just talk about what you realized
00:05:21
and the person that you got to know and
00:05:23
what it says about what we need to do so
00:05:26
that we don't get manipulated yeah so
00:05:28
first of all when Biden was running
00:05:30
against Trump one of the things the
00:05:32
media tried to do is to say well you
00:05:33
know you have these two guys who are a
00:05:35
little bit older than average and both
00:05:36
of them clearly aren't fully with it and
00:05:39
I would hear the media talk about Biden
00:05:41
like this and then talk about Trump like
00:05:42
this and it's like guys Donald Trump
00:05:44
remembers exactly what I said about him
00:05:47
n and a half years ago to the minute to
00:05:49
the day to the exact line like trust me
00:05:51
his memory is 100% there uh even if it
00:05:54
would be in more more in my interest if
00:05:55
it wasn't and you know what what what
00:05:58
changed for me I mean two things I mean
00:06:00
one Chim you just sort of hit on this is
00:06:03
a lot of the things the Press said about
00:06:05
Donald Trump and says about Donald Trump
00:06:07
are just straight up Fabrications and so
00:06:08
if you think the Press is like biased
00:06:11
that's one thing but if you think the
00:06:12
Press is fundamentally trying to tell
00:06:14
you the truth even if it's in a bias way
00:06:16
and then you realize that like Donald
00:06:17
Trump never called white supremacist
00:06:19
very fine people after Charlottesville a
00:06:21
total fabrication of the American Media
00:06:23
it's like okay what other things am I
00:06:25
hearing about Donald Trump that are
00:06:27
actually not true right the second thing
00:06:29
is you know and we talked about this a
00:06:31
little bit last night but look if you go
00:06:34
back to the date of my or the year of my
00:06:36
birth which is 1984 there's this chart
00:06:38
that's really interesting and it tracks
00:06:40
corporate profits the wages of workers
00:06:43
and the size of government and for
00:06:45
pretty much my entire life the wages of
00:06:48
workers were stagnant corporate profits
00:06:50
were going up and the size of government
00:06:52
was going up and there was a 4-year
00:06:54
period where the wages of workers
00:06:55
outpace the size of government corporate
00:06:57
profits it's the four years that Trump
00:06:59
was president and I think that we have
00:07:01
to like give some credit to where it's
00:07:03
due the policies actually
00:07:06
work and if you go into the presidency
00:07:08
saying I don't think Donald Trump's
00:07:09
going to be a good president and then lo
00:07:11
and behold he's the best president at
00:07:13
least in a generation it's like okay
00:07:14
time to change my mind admit to myself
00:07:17
but also to all the people who listen to
00:07:19
me I was wrong about Donald Trump he was
00:07:21
a hell of a good president of course I'm
00:07:22
running as his running mate I think
00:07:24
he'll do it again let's flip it around
00:07:25
now what what does it say about him that
00:07:28
he I mean how's that process of saying
00:07:30
JD you said this yes I did I changed my
00:07:33
mind I then but then he has to change
00:07:34
his mind so that says something so talk
00:07:36
us about that you know I think the the
00:07:38
president one thing I'll say about him
00:07:40
is the again the media perception of
00:07:43
Donald Trump is that he's like this
00:07:44
deeply AG grieved guy who holds really
00:07:48
terrible grudges the actual reality of
00:07:50
Donald Trump is that yeah he remembers
00:07:53
what you said about him because it's
00:07:54
like part of the inputs that he takes as
00:07:56
he tries to evaluate a human being but
00:07:59
most most importantly he's asking like
00:08:01
what what can you do now how can you
00:08:03
help the country now how can you help me
00:08:05
as I try to help the country now and I
00:08:07
think for whatever complicated set of
00:08:09
factors he decided that I was the guy
00:08:10
who could help him the most um but no I
00:08:12
mean it's it's it is interesting the
00:08:15
perception of him as this guy who holds
00:08:17
grudges he selected a guy who was very
00:08:19
much a Critic of his back in 2015 as his
00:08:21
running mate clearly something doesn't
00:08:23
make sense and I think that what doesn't
00:08:25
make sense is this idea that Trump is
00:08:27
more motivated by grievance than he is
00:08:28
by the public interest he's actually
00:08:30
much more motivated by the public
00:08:32
interest that's the truth that's awesome
00:08:34
you're um thanks for coming of course um
00:08:37
you're going to replace um Mike Pence uh
00:08:41
as I hope so yeah as
00:08:43
uh GNA be a close election but um if you
00:08:47
do um Mike Pence um your new boss Trump
00:08:52
is a little upset at Mike Pence because
00:08:54
Mike Pence refused to uh overturn in the
00:08:57
election results and um
00:09:00
if you were in that same position what
00:09:02
would you do would you have overturned
00:09:04
the election results well I think it's
00:09:07
let me take itue with the premise a
00:09:08
little bit Jason because I don't think
00:09:09
the argument was Mike Pence could
00:09:11
overturn the election results I think
00:09:13
the argument was that Mike Pence could
00:09:15
have done more whether you agree or
00:09:17
disagree Mike Pence could have done more
00:09:19
to sort of surface some of the problems
00:09:22
in the election would you have not
00:09:24
certified the El well I I think that
00:09:26
what I would have done I mean look I I I
00:09:28
happen to think that there were issues
00:09:29
back in 2020 particularly in
00:09:30
Pennsylvania even you know some of the
00:09:32
courts that refused to throw out
00:09:34
certified ballots did say that there
00:09:36
were ballots that were cast in an
00:09:37
illegal way they just refused to
00:09:39
actually decertify the election results
00:09:41
in Pennsylvania do I think that we could
00:09:43
have had a much more rational
00:09:45
conversation about how to ensure that
00:09:47
only legal ballots are cast yes and do I
00:09:50
think that Mike Pence could have played
00:09:51
a better role yes but I again the the
00:09:53
the two premises that I take issue one
00:09:55
is one pence was not asked to overturn
00:09:58
the election he couldn't have
00:10:00
but two the reason asked to not certify
00:10:02
it sure so would you have certified it
00:10:04
last year for the third again I would
00:10:05
have asked the states to submit
00:10:07
alternative slates of electors and let
00:10:09
the country have the debate about what
00:10:11
actually matters and what kind of an
00:10:13
election that we have states to be clear
00:10:16
I would have asked the states to submit
00:10:18
alternative slate to that's that's what
00:10:20
I would have done again I've said that
00:10:22
publicly many times but again Jason the
00:10:24
important part is we would have had a
00:10:25
big debate and it doesn't necessarily
00:10:27
mean the results would have been any
00:10:29
different different but we at least
00:10:30
would have had the debate in
00:10:31
Pennsylvania and Georgia about how to
00:10:33
better have a rational election system
00:10:36
where legal ballots are cast and again I
00:10:38
I you know look I have no personal
00:10:40
problem with Mike Pence I've never
00:10:41
really talked to him um but I think that
00:10:43
the idea that the reason Mike Pence
00:10:45
isn't on board with Donald Trump is over
00:10:46
the election of 2020 that's the other
00:10:48
thing I want to take issue with Jason
00:10:50
because I think in reality that if
00:10:51
Donald Trump wanted to start a nuclear
00:10:53
war with Russia Mike Pence would be at
00:10:54
the front of the line endorsing him
00:10:56
right now and fundamentally the reason
00:10:58
the old guard of the Republican party
00:10:59
hates Donald Trump it's not because of
00:11:01
January the 6 2021 whatever your views
00:11:04
on it it's because Donald Trump doesn't
00:11:06
think that we should start stupid Wars
00:11:08
in foreign countries and that's why they
00:11:09
all hate
00:11:10
him can I I have a fall on that let me
00:11:14
continue my line of questioning then
00:11:16
I'll give it to you because I want to
00:11:17
hear JD's since he's here I've heard
00:11:18
yours many times um so uh how many how
00:11:22
many followups how many follows are you
00:11:24
going to have about January 6 we 2
00:11:26
minutes talking about I want to hear
00:11:27
David especially if he gets me out of
00:11:28
answering
00:11:31
so I think we've you've had like three
00:11:34
follow-ups on on J first of all freeberg
00:11:36
you never got a chance to ask your
00:11:37
question I want to talk about let's
00:11:39
let's talk about January 6 for the next
00:11:40
45 minutes I'm sure the most important
00:11:42
thing going on in the country right now
00:11:43
can we talk about policy for a minute
00:11:45
that'd be great okay I'd love that I
00:11:47
I'll just I'll just reflect back on your
00:11:49
comment about government growth compared
00:11:53
to wage growth compared to corporate
00:11:54
profits there's only so much Capital it
00:11:56
gets sucked up somewhere right there's
00:11:58
competing interests that suck Su it up
00:11:59
the government is a competing interest
00:12:00
that sucks up Capital fundamentally the
00:12:03
government has been successful in
00:12:04
sucking up capital and ultimately the
00:12:06
government has been proven time and
00:12:07
again to be the least efficient way to
00:12:09
grow the economy of allocating capital
00:12:13
allocators or labor and um Trump has
00:12:17
made this commentary that Elon who's
00:12:18
going to be here later today should come
00:12:20
in and help rightsize the government
00:12:22
you've now you've now spent a few years
00:12:23
as a senator this is my most distressing
00:12:26
issue right of all the panic attacks I
00:12:28
have that Jason teases me about it's
00:12:31
government spending the debt level and
00:12:33
ultimately you reach a Tipping Point I
00:12:35
believe in democracies where the
00:12:36
government is
00:12:37
spending uh most more people are
00:12:39
dependent on the government than are not
00:12:41
and that ultimately leads to a very bad
00:12:43
outcome for democracy that's how I feel
00:12:45
and So based on what you've seen as a
00:12:47
senator now for the last few years and
00:12:48
based on the commentary that Elon where
00:12:50
where would you go in you know cut where
00:12:53
where's the most kind of efficiency
00:12:55
gaining opportunity that we can kind of
00:12:58
execute against without needing to go
00:13:00
and negotiate with Congress what's the
00:13:02
opportunity ahead for the executive
00:13:04
branch to rightsize government to make
00:13:06
things more efficient to hold things
00:13:08
accountable to improve the way that the
00:13:10
government is functioning which I think
00:13:11
ultimately leads to better economic
00:13:12
growth and opportunity for Innovation
00:13:14
because Capital flows to the right
00:13:15
places so I agree with you and let me
00:13:17
just say let me say two things and I'll
00:13:18
try to answer briefly because I know
00:13:19
there are a lot of topics that we can
00:13:20
get through so so number one is one of
00:13:23
the things that our government should do
00:13:24
obviously I think it should be doing
00:13:26
less than it currently does but what it
00:13:28
does I want it to do well
00:13:29
and most importantly I want the critical
00:13:31
social welfare functions of our
00:13:33
government to go to the people who
00:13:34
actually deserve to be here so as United
00:13:37
State Senator I have asked multiple
00:13:38
staff members I've asked officials in
00:13:40
various government departments if you
00:13:42
take the give or take 25 million illegal
00:13:44
aliens that are here in this country
00:13:45
right now how much money do we spend on
00:13:48
illegal aliens every single year in this
00:13:50
country and I've gotten estimates that
00:13:52
range between a100 billion a year to
00:13:54
$600 billion a year and where does that
00:13:56
money come from well it comes from
00:13:57
Healthcare benefits even though illegal
00:13:59
aliens aren't entitled to section 8
00:14:01
housing their children are entitled to
00:14:02
section 8 housing there's also a lot of
00:14:04
Social Security fraud a lot of Medicare
00:14:05
fraud so one thing that we could save a
00:14:08
lot of money on is actually focusing our
00:14:10
national interest on American citizens
00:14:12
people who deserve to be here we'd save
00:14:13
a lot of money that way that'd be a huge
00:14:16
7.3 trillion budget what do you estimate
00:14:18
that impact to be well again and I'm
00:14:19
trying to do that scene in the movie
00:14:21
Dave they go in and they just like line
00:14:22
up like nope no or like no pulled
00:14:24
everything off the board if you call it
00:14:25
a $ 1.7 trillion deficit right uh again
00:14:28
it's between $100 billion to $600
00:14:30
billion depending on how you cut the
00:14:32
numbers now the the other thing about
00:14:33
that just to answer your question about
00:14:34
efficiency is I think the government
00:14:36
procurement process especially in
00:14:37
military equipment is really broken uh
00:14:40
if you go back to Eisenhower's warning
00:14:42
about the military industrial complex I
00:14:44
mean I I was a seed investor in andil I
00:14:45
imagine you guys have some andil people
00:14:47
here today um great lucky here great
00:14:50
yeah great great chat you know one of
00:14:53
the things that that company as as I as
00:14:55
you know I haven't talked to to the guys
00:14:57
about the details of their business in
00:14:58
the LA in the last few years but one of
00:15:00
the things that they founded the company
00:15:01
on was the idea that the procurement
00:15:03
process was broken and that is
00:15:04
definitely true in the you know we do
00:15:08
way too much cost plus procurement and
00:15:11
way too little actual spurring of
00:15:12
innovation and what it ends up meaning
00:15:14
is that our equipment isn't as good as
00:15:16
it should be and we end up spending a
00:15:17
lot more money than we should be I
00:15:19
actually do think you could cut the
00:15:20
American defense budget and make our
00:15:22
country stronger but you would have to
00:15:25
make the procurement process much more
00:15:26
efficient now that's a big thing to
00:15:27
tackle but that's what we're in this
00:15:29
business do you pass legislation to do
00:15:31
that I don't know that you have to pass
00:15:33
legislation but you really as a
00:15:35
president and vice president you have to
00:15:36
be willing to take on some very powerful
00:15:38
defense contractors and that's something
00:15:39
that I know president Trump and I very
00:15:40
much want to do and how would you like
00:15:42
your role as vice president to be cast
00:15:45
differentially from how other vice
00:15:47
presidents have have operated what would
00:15:48
your role as an individual be just
00:15:50
speaking about I want to do all of the
00:15:52
good things and none of the bad things
00:15:53
that's my goal as as vice president
00:15:55
that's so the ribbon cuttings of the new
00:15:57
federal like I mean look I mean
00:16:00
obviously joking but the the reality is
00:16:03
that I I want to be a second set of eyes
00:16:06
and ears for the president's agenda
00:16:08
right one of the things that was true
00:16:09
and he will tell you this the first time
00:16:11
he was he was President of the United
00:16:12
States is there were people in
00:16:14
government there were people in his own
00:16:15
Administration that he was a newcomer to
00:16:17
politics he didn't fully trust everybody
00:16:19
who was around him we want to build a
00:16:21
team who's actually aligned on the
00:16:22
agenda because agree or disagree with
00:16:24
Donald Trump on a specific policy issue
00:16:26
assuming the American people make him
00:16:28
the next president pres and I think that
00:16:29
they will that is the next president and
00:16:32
his policy determinations should dictate
00:16:35
the executive administration of
00:16:36
government if they don't we don't have a
00:16:38
real democracy and by the way just not
00:16:40
to weigh back into January 6 territory
00:16:42
like what is a bigger threat to American
00:16:44
democracy is it that we had a big fight
00:16:46
about some of the uh some of the
00:16:48
certification in January the 6 and of
00:16:50
course you had some riers at the capital
00:16:52
or is it that for example The Joint
00:16:54
Chiefs of Staff didn't obey the
00:16:56
president of the United States on Troop
00:16:58
redeployment in Syria which actually
00:17:00
happened during Trump's Administration
00:17:02
like if we're going to talk about
00:17:03
threats to democracy we need the
00:17:05
government to be responsive to the
00:17:07
American people's elected president if
00:17:09
you don't have that you don't have a
00:17:10
real democracy how
00:17:11
[Applause]
00:17:16
much a lot of this if you design it in
00:17:20
one way has to go through Congress which
00:17:21
as we know is sclerotic and mayic
00:17:24
nothing can happen and then the other
00:17:25
path is for you guys to go ham a little
00:17:27
bit and say okay what can we do with
00:17:29
executive order have you had a chance to
00:17:32
discuss if you
00:17:33
win repositioning the focus as basically
00:17:37
that what is the totality of everything
00:17:39
that we can do from the White House from
00:17:42
the oval and then getting all of these
00:17:45
and the other thing that we should talk
00:17:46
about at some point is like it's like a
00:17:47
Avengers movie now at this point you
00:17:50
Bobby Kennedy Elon Trump so
00:17:54
but I don't the Justice League the
00:17:56
Justice League I I don't know which
00:17:58
character in that Justice League I am no
00:18:00
but but the point is like you know have
00:18:02
you had that discussion about like all
00:18:03
right folks let's not wait for Congress
00:18:06
and get a plan ready starting day one of
00:18:08
all the stuff that can happen through
00:18:10
EOS or how are you thinking about this
00:18:11
well at a high level certainly you know
00:18:13
I'm I'm one of the co-chairs of the
00:18:14
transition team there are a few others
00:18:16
of us who are working on it you to sort
00:18:17
of think about I mean look the way the
00:18:18
founders set up our government whether
00:18:20
you like it or not there are certain
00:18:21
things especially when it comes to
00:18:22
budget and Appropriations you just have
00:18:24
to go through Congress right you
00:18:26
fundamentally have to now I I do think
00:18:28
that the Congress is willing to work
00:18:29
with us at least you know the first
00:18:31
couple of years of an Administration you
00:18:33
can largely get the budgetary and
00:18:34
Appropriations things that you need but
00:18:36
there's a lot that you can do through EO
00:18:38
and by the way in a lot of ways I think
00:18:40
the enlargement of the president at the
00:18:41
expense of Congress is a bad thing but
00:18:44
fundamentally there is a lot that
00:18:45
happens in our government purely through
00:18:47
executive orders through EOS and yes
00:18:49
we're thinking very deliberatively about
00:18:51
all the things that you could do through
00:18:53
EOS on day one or in the early parts of
00:18:55
the administration and again not to make
00:18:57
this too partisan but one of the ways
00:18:59
that that um that Biden and Harris
00:19:01
opened up the American southern border
00:19:03
was through executive orders right it
00:19:04
was an executive order that suspended
00:19:06
deportations an executive order that
00:19:08
ended the remain of Mexico policy so you
00:19:11
can screw up a lot through EOS you can
00:19:12
also fix a lot through EOS which is
00:19:14
certainly Something That We're focused
00:19:16
on let me um uh go in a different
00:19:19
direction just in the last couple of
00:19:21
days um Dick Cheney endorsed KLA Harris
00:19:25
for president and that endorsement was
00:19:27
warmly embraced by by KLA Harris and the
00:19:29
Democrats the same people called him a
00:19:31
war criminal like three years ago yeah
00:19:33
well yeah I'm old enough to remember
00:19:35
back in 2008 uh Obama first beat Hillary
00:19:39
Clinton in the Democratic primary
00:19:41
because he had opposed the Iraq War and
00:19:42
she had supported it and then he got
00:19:44
elected president the United States and
00:19:45
the whole country seemed to recognize
00:19:47
that the Iraq War had been a disaster it
00:19:49
destabilized Middle East it you know I
00:19:52
don't need to go through all the
00:19:52
litanies of of horribles that that
00:19:54
happened from it but there seems to be a
00:19:56
widespread recognition and like you're
00:19:58
saying Di was kind of demonized as this
00:20:01
um like the Darth Vader Prince of
00:20:03
Darkness type figure which I think
00:20:05
basically was right I mean he was the
00:20:07
principal architect of of the Iraq War
00:20:09
and now I find myself agreeing with
00:20:10
everything the Democrats said in 2008
00:20:13
about right total coincidence on a
00:20:15
separate track a few weeks ago we had
00:20:17
Bobby Kennedy endorse uh Donald Trump so
00:20:21
you now have a dynamic where the bush
00:20:23
Republicans are now Harris Democrats and
00:20:27
the Kennedy Democrats are now Trump
00:20:29
Republicans clearly something big is
00:20:32
happening in our politics here can you
00:20:34
explain this realignment how do you see
00:20:36
it yeah I mean look uh one way think
00:20:38
about it is that we traded Dick Cheney
00:20:40
for Bobby Kennedy and that's an upgrade
00:20:41
I'll take every single
00:20:45
day
00:20:46
right look I mean one way of
00:20:49
understanding is you have to ask
00:20:50
yourself who is benefited and who is
00:20:52
harmed from the last 30 years of the
00:20:55
bipartisan consistence in this country
00:20:56
right so um you want to talk about a
00:20:59
manufacturing policy that I think
00:21:00
promoted the offshoring of millions of
00:21:02
good American manufacturing jobs and in
00:21:04
the in the process by the way made made
00:21:06
us less self-reliant as a country uh
00:21:09
that really benefited people like Dick
00:21:11
Cheney and kamla Harris and their donors
00:21:13
it didn't benefit the people that I
00:21:14
serve in the state of Ohio okay uh if
00:21:17
you ask yourself who actually went off
00:21:18
and fought these ridiculous Wars it was
00:21:20
very often working in Middle Class kids
00:21:22
in communities like mine it wasn't the
00:21:24
family of our current leadership class
00:21:27
by and large though of course they're
00:21:28
exception
00:21:29
and you go through each of these issues
00:21:30
and what you find is increasingly
00:21:32
Republicans are the party of working in
00:21:34
Middle Class people you know Bobby
00:21:36
Kennedy has talked about this a lot and
00:21:37
I think he puts it better than I ever
00:21:39
could but that you know you go back even
00:21:41
30 years ago and Approximately 80% of
00:21:44
the counties that represent sorry 80% of
00:21:47
the wealth in American counties went in
00:21:51
places that voted Republican and about
00:21:52
20% of the wealth went to places that
00:21:54
voted Democrat now it's 70% of the
00:21:57
wealth goes for Democrat and about 30%
00:21:59
of the wealth goes for republicans and
00:22:01
you saw this in a big way I mean just
00:22:02
one illustration is I believe that in
00:22:05
2012 Wall Street which I think Wall
00:22:07
Street fundamentally has been the main
00:22:09
beneficiary of globalization of of a lot
00:22:11
of the policies that I I pushed back
00:22:12
against and criticize over the last 30
00:22:14
years Wall Street went 3 to one for
00:22:17
Romney over Obama in 2012 I believe they
00:22:19
went 4 to one for um for Clinton over
00:22:24
Trump in 2016 and then like nine to one
00:22:27
for Biden over Trump in 201 20 so there
00:22:29
was a massive shift in who makes up
00:22:31
these parties wealthy people direct
00:22:33
their money to Democrats is what incre
00:22:35
increasingly wealthy people direct their
00:22:36
money to Democrats working in Middle
00:22:38
Class People direct their money to
00:22:40
Republicans why do you think that is j i
00:22:41
i i again because I think their policies
00:22:43
have benefited look the the the unip
00:22:45
party the kamla harrises and Dick Cheney
00:22:48
their parties have benefited a certain
00:22:50
group of people those people are
00:22:51
increasingly Democrats uh Donald Trump
00:22:54
has been pushing back against that
00:22:55
consensus in his party in his policies I
00:22:57
think benefit the majority of the
00:22:58
country so increasingly I think the
00:23:00
working middle class heart of the
00:23:02
country is going for Republicans like
00:23:04
another another spin on this cuz I know
00:23:05
we're you know focused on Tech in this
00:23:07
conference is Big Tech has become
00:23:09
increasingly pro-democrat little Tech
00:23:11
has become increasingly Pro Republican
00:23:12
right so if you're an upstart if you're
00:23:14
in crypto if you're if you're like a
00:23:16
small AI company I think you're much
00:23:18
more likely to be pro- Republican if
00:23:20
you're a monopolist in big Tech I mean
00:23:22
look at Facebook Google how they're how
00:23:25
they're how they're putting their
00:23:26
resources it's much much more Pro
00:23:28
Democrats so there are a lot of
00:23:30
different spins on it but fundamentally
00:23:31
I think the people who've benefited from
00:23:33
the American decline are becoming
00:23:35
Democrats the people who have suffered
00:23:37
from it and are pushing back against it
00:23:39
their Republicans I have a followup
00:23:41
question on that JD which is um you were
00:23:43
a venture capitalist uh for a period and
00:23:46
Lena Khan has essentially taken m&a off
00:23:49
the table um you well know that if we
00:23:52
can't get those singles and doubles in
00:23:53
the industry um it kind of freezes the
00:23:55
industry and we have a problem with
00:23:58
returns which then is having creating a
00:24:00
a secondary order problem where we can't
00:24:02
get LPS to put more money into funds
00:24:04
because we're not getting those returns
00:24:06
what's the proper way to look at m&a
00:24:08
because you're you want to break up big
00:24:10
Tech from what I understand and you have
00:24:12
a major problem with big Tech you
00:24:14
mentioned little Tech what's the proper
00:24:17
m&a architecture you know to to balance
00:24:21
those two uh goals there yeah so this is
00:24:24
obviously very complicated like Jason
00:24:25
you probably understand this better than
00:24:26
I do but as as Somebody by the way who's
00:24:29
defended Lena Khan against some of her
00:24:31
critics from the right I think what Lena
00:24:33
Khan fundamentally gets correct is that
00:24:35
big Tech really is a threat it's a
00:24:37
threat to free speech it's increasing
00:24:39
oligarchic it controls too much of what
00:24:41
we're allowed to say and also it
00:24:43
controls a lot of the ways in which
00:24:44
capital gets invested in these various
00:24:46
ecosystems but where I think Len lenon
00:24:49
goes wrong is that you're exactly right
00:24:51
like you need the singles and doubles
00:24:53
you need sometimes a medium-sized
00:24:56
company to buy a smaller company for 300
00:24:58
millon
00:24:59
right that liquidates Founders that
00:25:00
gives the Venture fund some money to go
00:25:02
back into the system and I think that
00:25:04
you know not I don't know her super well
00:25:06
but my basic read on Lena is that she is
00:25:09
so anti-monopoly as sort of a baseline
00:25:12
bias and anti that becomes anti-g and
00:25:15
acquisition as a baseline bias that
00:25:17
Google buying YouTube is a much much
00:25:19
different thing from a$2 billion market
00:25:22
cap Healthcare company buying a $500
00:25:23
million Market healthare company and I
00:25:25
think that we have to sort of draw a
00:25:27
very big distinction between little
00:25:28
little Tech and big Tech and look I'm
00:25:30
going to keep on making that argument
00:25:31
both in public and private to Lena and
00:25:33
hopefully she comes around to rvw a
00:25:34
little bit because I do think some of
00:25:36
her ideas on big Tech are right I think
00:25:37
a good place for us to Pivot would be
00:25:39
the border and just talking about this
00:25:41
issue more from first principles when
00:25:43
President Trump came on the podcast we
00:25:45
talked about hey maybe really talented
00:25:48
people we should recruit them to our
00:25:50
country and give them green cards um but
00:25:52
very quickly um your group walked that
00:25:55
back a bit it's such a political hot
00:25:58
potato and it doesn't seem to me that it
00:26:00
needs to be but you spent a lot of time
00:26:01
in government now why can't politicians
00:26:05
just do what 80% of the country wants
00:26:07
which is allow very talented people into
00:26:10
the country close the border and make it
00:26:14
like a a more point-based system like
00:26:16
Canada Australia and everybody else like
00:26:18
why is this so weaponized by both of
00:26:22
your parties well I think the reason why
00:26:24
it's so difficult right now and I mean
00:26:25
look generally I agree that okay we're
00:26:27
going to let some immigrants in we want
00:26:30
them to be high Talent high quality
00:26:31
people you don't want to let a large
00:26:33
number of illegal aliens in obviously
00:26:34
that you know that that is that's
00:26:36
president Trump's view but I I think
00:26:38
that the reason why it's so broken down
00:26:40
right now is because you have 25 million
00:26:41
illegal aliens in this country and you
00:26:43
like you can't fix what I would call the
00:26:46
minor or sort of less important
00:26:48
immigration question until you fix the
00:26:51
real problem and part of that goes back
00:26:53
by the way to the way in which the
00:26:54
system got broken in the first place so
00:26:56
Ronald Reagan of course great governor
00:26:57
of California
00:26:58
a great president but Reagan did in 1986
00:27:02
a massive amnesty program where in some
00:27:04
ways he was trying to do exactly what
00:27:05
you're talking about fix the problem of
00:27:07
people who are already here make sure
00:27:09
that our immigration system is more
00:27:11
proskill but also close down the border
00:27:13
and what happened is we got all the
00:27:15
amnesty but we didn't get the closing
00:27:17
down of the border and so in order to do
00:27:20
anything I think meaningful on
00:27:21
immigration policy meaning legal
00:27:23
immigration policy you've got to close
00:27:25
down the border and establish some basic
00:27:27
order and and we go back to First
00:27:28
principles here I I think that people
00:27:31
who are generally I mean look this is
00:27:32
I'm sure a very diverse crowd and I'm
00:27:34
sure there are a lot of immigrants In
00:27:35
This Crowd legal immigrants uh hopefully
00:27:38
um I'm married to the daughter I'm
00:27:40
married to the daughter of legal
00:27:41
immigrants to this country and I of
00:27:43
course love not just my wife but the
00:27:45
whole extended family I do think they've
00:27:46
they brought a lot areal immigrants yeah
00:27:49
um and but but but here's the thing when
00:27:52
you allow 25 million people into this
00:27:54
country it breaks down the entire social
00:27:57
compact right so think about this okay
00:27:59
you're down on your luck you lost your
00:28:00
job you get unemployment insurance
00:28:02
you're really down on your luck you need
00:28:03
food assistance from the federal
00:28:05
government I believe as a conservative
00:28:08
that part of being in the same American
00:28:10
Family whether your family's been here
00:28:12
for a generation or 10 Generations is
00:28:14
that we support people who are down on
00:28:15
the luck we don't want a cradle to grave
00:28:17
welfare state but we want to support
00:28:19
people we don't want kids who are dying
00:28:21
because of starvation because of no
00:28:23
fault of their own we want to promote
00:28:25
some basic fairness and we want to help
00:28:28
people out when times get tough but you
00:28:30
can't do that if you extend that
00:28:32
generosity to tens of millions of people
00:28:34
who can't even be here in in the first
00:28:36
place and I think that what what kamla
00:28:38
Harris has done at the border it's not
00:28:40
just bad economically it's not just bad
00:28:42
for Public Safety she has eroded the
00:28:44
very foundation of the social contract
00:28:46
in this country and we talk about
00:28:48
division in our politics and kamla has
00:28:50
this ridiculous slogan we're not going
00:28:52
back the reason why politics is so
00:28:54
divided is because she has turned
00:28:56
American citizens against one another
00:28:58
while she's placed theit the the
00:29:00
interest of illegal aliens above
00:29:02
American citizens you want to turn the
00:29:04
page and get back to Common American
00:29:05
citizenship stop putting illegal aliens
00:29:08
to the front of the line of American
00:29:09
citizens is the
00:29:15
motivation do you do you believe the
00:29:17
motivation is endless empathy or is it
00:29:23
as simple as we want new Democratic
00:29:25
voters or is there a kind of not
00:29:29
publicly spoken about economic argument
00:29:31
about bringing wages down having
00:29:33
economic growth having new buyers in the
00:29:35
economy that there's some benefit
00:29:37
despite the1 to 600 billion and I'll add
00:29:39
another one guilt yeah it's the endless
00:29:42
empathy aspect yeah yeah I mean empathy
00:29:44
is different than guilt it's all of
00:29:46
these things right I mean so so let me
00:29:47
tell you a brief story and this goes
00:29:49
back to my my changing my mind on Donald
00:29:51
Trump I was probably it's probably 2017
00:29:53
2018 I was at a business conference and
00:29:55
I happened to be seated next to one of
00:29:57
the largest Hotel chain CEOs in America
00:29:59
and my wife was there and we talk about
00:30:01
this as the Monopoly story because the
00:30:03
guy is just going off maybe it had too
00:30:05
much to drink he's going off about how
00:30:07
Donald Trump's immigration policies have
00:30:09
for had forced him to raise the wages of
00:30:11
his workers and I was like oh that's an
00:30:13
interesting fact like explain more about
00:30:15
this sir please I W understand and he
00:30:17
said well because we can hire a lot of
00:30:20
immigrants and frankly we can hire a lot
00:30:21
of legal immigrants under the table and
00:30:23
we can't do that because there are fewer
00:30:25
legal immigrants so we have to pay our
00:30:26
American citizen workers more money and
00:30:28
I'm like oh that sounds pretty good
00:30:30
actually isn't that like what we want is
00:30:32
for people to be earning higher wages
00:30:34
for doing a good job so there's
00:30:36
definitely an economic piece of it but I
00:30:38
also think I mean look this is this is
00:30:40
chilled out a little bit partially
00:30:42
because we're in election year if KLA
00:30:43
Harris won I think it would come back
00:30:44
with a vengeance but think about all
00:30:46
these like ridiculous land
00:30:47
acknowledgements right where people say
00:30:49
well you know I want to acknowledge that
00:30:51
this be belonged to like this tribe
00:30:54
before I was here and if you genuinely
00:30:56
think that you have to acknowledge a
00:30:59
Native American tribe from 300 years ago
00:31:02
then one attitude that comes along with
00:31:03
this is why can I control it all who
00:31:06
comes into the country right I have no
00:31:07
right there's this basic I think this is
00:31:09
the empathy it's the guilt it's sort of
00:31:11
all these things but all structural
00:31:12
Norms degrade exactly I I have no right
00:31:15
to say who comes into my community and I
00:31:18
think again it's it's deranged but I
00:31:20
think that's part of it I think the
00:31:21
economic piece of it is part of it it's
00:31:23
certainly a vote argument I mean
00:31:24
Democrats will say this of course
00:31:25
Republicans are accused of racism for
00:31:28
just repeating what Democrats have said
00:31:30
when somebody like Chuck Schumer says
00:31:32
well you know we're going to have an
00:31:33
emerging Democratic majority because
00:31:35
we're going to have all these new
00:31:36
immigrants and all the old Americans
00:31:38
well they're going to vote for
00:31:39
Republicans but we're going to replace
00:31:41
them with a bunch of new people who vote
00:31:42
for Democrats it's like that's pretty
00:31:44
sick but again if you call it out you're
00:31:46
somehow a racist even though Chuck
00:31:48
Schumer is himself calling it out as if
00:31:50
it were a good thing so I just want to
00:31:51
ask on a different topic now thank you
00:31:54
for talking about the Border um can I
00:31:56
just have one final on this topic okay
00:31:57
goad is um your plan is to deport tens
00:32:01
of millions of these people tell us how
00:32:03
that will happen practically how are you
00:32:05
going to take million of people put them
00:32:07
in cuffs drag them out while people have
00:32:08
their cell phones out recording this or
00:32:10
is that just Trump being Trump well
00:32:13
Jason
00:32:14
it's I like it you like the balance in
00:32:17
the podcast yeah I do I do
00:32:24
though In fairness JD told me JD told me
00:32:28
ask the hard questions please I want to
00:32:29
address them head on you did say that
00:32:32
nothing's I think Jason should be on the
00:32:33
left and David should be on my right
00:32:35
appropriately where am I he's been
00:32:37
pulling me to the right I'll it's funny
00:32:40
he didn't have any of these hard
00:32:41
questions for Reed Hoffman I don't know
00:32:44
why
00:32:46
SX Jason wait do you want me to leave
00:32:49
the left and go to the
00:32:51
right I'm on the left right now but I
00:32:53
could go right okay yeah I guess it
00:32:55
depends on perspective my perspective
00:32:57
here
00:32:58
but you know Jason if if the if the VC
00:33:00
thing doesn't work out you'd make a
00:33:02
great panelist at CNN so back but I um
00:33:07
no I by the way I love this and I like I
00:33:11
I genuinely think like this is what a
00:33:13
person who wants to be your Vice
00:33:14
President should actually do is answer
00:33:16
some tough question I do give you credit
00:33:17
for that that you will face the hard
00:33:19
question so back to the question tell me
00:33:21
about dragging millions of people out of
00:33:23
the country Jason here here's why I find
00:33:24
this question a little off and I will
00:33:27
answer it but
00:33:28
it's like somebody who comes to me and
00:33:30
I'm like eating my lunch and they say
00:33:31
look that sandwich is 10 times the size
00:33:34
of your mouth how are you possibly going
00:33:35
to eat that whole sandwich and it's like
00:33:37
well I'm going to take a first bite and
00:33:39
then I'm going to take a second bite and
00:33:41
I'm going to take a third bite and
00:33:42
eventually the problem's going to be
00:33:43
look you start out with the million
00:33:45
people who are what we call criminal
00:33:47
migrants people who have committed
00:33:49
violent crimes in some form or another
00:33:50
get them out of our country yes handcuff
00:33:53
those people and force them out of the
00:33:54
country but you also do other things
00:33:56
simultaneously first of all you stop the
00:33:58
bleeding right you undo KLA Harris's
00:34:01
policies that open the southern Border
00:34:02
in the first place I've got a piece of
00:34:04
legislation in the United States Senate
00:34:06
uh that we've got a lot of colleagues
00:34:07
who have signed up for it which would
00:34:09
tax remittances right because we know a
00:34:11
lot of people are earning money and then
00:34:13
sending it back to Central America where
00:34:15
wherever they came from if you end that
00:34:17
practice then you have a lot of people
00:34:18
who go backck willingly I think you
00:34:19
ought to make it harder for people to
00:34:21
hire illegal labor as opposed to
00:34:23
American citizens you tick through these
00:34:25
things and I do think that you know
00:34:27
that's the sandwich approach to this is
00:34:29
you try to take it one step at a time
00:34:31
but the most important thing and I think
00:34:33
the deportation Focus again it is
00:34:35
important because we're eventually we
00:34:37
are going to deport people but the most
00:34:39
important thing is to stop the bleeding
00:34:41
you've got to stop the millions of
00:34:43
people flowing across the southern
00:34:44
border every single year it happened
00:34:46
because of KLA Harris's policies it's
00:34:48
going to stop when Donald Trump is
00:34:50
President let me ask a national security
00:34:52
question
00:34:53
yeah there's a lot of videos elon's gone
00:34:56
down there Bobby Kennedy has gone down
00:34:58
there you've gone down there sure and
00:35:00
the interdictions are not necessarily
00:35:02
coming from countries in Central and
00:35:04
South America anymore they're coming
00:35:05
from places in you know near around near
00:35:08
Asia and a lot of places that you
00:35:10
wouldn't normally think people coming
00:35:11
from Middle East Etc from a national
00:35:14
security perspective what do we think is
00:35:16
happening yeah why is that happening
00:35:18
yeah so well part of the reason it's
00:35:20
happening is it's not Hondurans
00:35:22
necessarily
00:35:23
it's it's Iranians it's it's people from
00:35:25
you know all over Asia Africa
00:35:28
look if if you look at
00:35:30
this that is the open door right so if
00:35:32
you want to come to this country that is
00:35:34
the open door and God knows why some of
00:35:35
them want to be here I mean you know
00:35:37
given what's going on in the Middle East
00:35:38
I do worry about military age males from
00:35:40
Iran coming into this country through
00:35:42
the American southern border um but you
00:35:44
know I actually asked a border patrol
00:35:46
agent about this uh on one of my visits
00:35:49
and you know great guy was actually kind
00:35:52
of heartbroken because he signed up to
00:35:54
protect his country and he's a
00:35:56
relatively recent immigrant I could tell
00:35:57
that that by his accent this guy's like
00:35:59
very nervous and very heartbroken about
00:36:01
the fact that he can't do his job and he
00:36:02
told me this story and I you know I feel
00:36:04
like an idiot in hindsight because he's
00:36:06
like we we have a guy who came in here I
00:36:08
asked the guy like you why do you think
00:36:09
this guy's Iranian and he said well
00:36:12
because he came through and he said that
00:36:13
he was Mexican and I was like well
00:36:15
couldn't he have been Mexican he said
00:36:16
well he didn't speak Spanish like oh
00:36:18
that's a tell you knowy Mexico legal
00:36:20
alien doesn't speak Spanish that's
00:36:22
that's probably a pretty significant
00:36:23
tell but it it's it's happening because
00:36:25
this is what KLA Harris has done she's
00:36:27
created this massive Gap in our national
00:36:30
security and people are taking advantage
00:36:31
of it it's really not that surprising J
00:36:33
let me just ask you um one more foreign
00:36:35
policy question um on China so there's a
00:36:38
balancing act with China but the
00:36:40
rhetoric is that's our enemy there's
00:36:42
going to be a cold war the CH the the
00:36:45
the the structural relationship that the
00:36:47
United States has with China is a very
00:36:50
kind of codependent relationship they
00:36:52
buy our bonds I guess they're selling
00:36:53
them off now uh we we buy a lot of
00:36:55
product from them it allows us to go
00:36:57
into a Walmart and get you know $40
00:37:00
scooters for our kids or $20 scooters
00:37:02
for our kids the technology industry is
00:37:05
deeply dependent on a supply chain
00:37:06
coming from China there's a great
00:37:08
commercial interdependency with China
00:37:10
they have historically been a very
00:37:12
important partner to the United States
00:37:14
in our economic prosperity and I know
00:37:16
the argument about hollowing out the
00:37:17
middle class and so on because of moving
00:37:20
everything offshore to China but you how
00:37:22
do we rip that Band-Aid off and not
00:37:25
cause massive problems with INF
00:37:28
how do we not um you know Drive the cost
00:37:31
of everything up by taring things that
00:37:33
are coming in from China what's the the
00:37:35
way forward with China is it necessarily
00:37:38
A deeply kind of divisive cold war or is
00:37:41
there a path here that allows us to
00:37:43
maintain a balanced trading relationship
00:37:46
and and kind of a peaceful transition
00:37:48
with with China as they continue to to
00:37:51
build up their kind of capabilities
00:37:52
economically and um with energy which I
00:37:54
think is one of the biggest drivers for
00:37:56
their success well so so there's a lot
00:37:57
there and let me try to sort of take a
00:37:59
few pieces of it cuz I know we're
00:38:00
relatively short on time so so number
00:38:02
one is the energy piece of it's is very
00:38:03
important part of the way that you
00:38:04
reshore American manufacturing is that
00:38:06
you open up American Energy it matters
00:38:08
for crypto it matters for AI you've got
00:38:10
to open up American energy or you're
00:38:12
never going to have whether it's the
00:38:14
next generation of manufactured goods or
00:38:16
the past Generations you've got to open
00:38:17
up American Energy okay that's number
00:38:19
one number two is look I I don't want to
00:38:21
go to war with China I think it would be
00:38:22
hugely destructive but I do think that
00:38:24
we have to reshore more American
00:38:26
manufacturing and you one of the weird
00:38:28
things about China if you think about
00:38:30
past eras of developing nations right so
00:38:33
go back to like when the UK was the most
00:38:35
advanced economy in the world and
00:38:36
America was a developing Nation well one
00:38:39
of the things that happened is that like
00:38:40
Capital was flowing from the UK into the
00:38:43
United States right from the developed
00:38:45
into the developing Nation what's really
00:38:47
weird about China is that it's like
00:38:50
Americans borrow money from Chinese
00:38:52
peasants to then buy the things the
00:38:54
Chinese peasants are making for us right
00:38:56
so it's not just the the goods flow
00:38:58
that's jacked up it's the capital flows
00:39:00
that are jacked up and I really think
00:39:02
that the next you know Donald Trump is
00:39:03
going to be the next president of United
00:39:05
States and this is something we're going
00:39:05
to have to figure out is that you need
00:39:07
to balance both the capital and the
00:39:09
goods flows okay I'm not saying we're
00:39:11
going to have absolutely no trade with
00:39:13
China but right now the relationship is
00:39:16
fundamentally that the Chinese have
00:39:17
figured out they can create a massively
00:39:20
powerful producer Society while America
00:39:23
becomes a weaker weaker consumerist
00:39:25
society that is the broken nature of the
00:39:27
relationship and I think rebalancing is
00:39:29
the right way to think about it but we
00:39:30
have got to do it and I think we're way
00:39:32
way behind the you maybe final question
00:39:34
but you said something which I thought
00:39:35
was incredibly well said so I just want
00:39:37
to repeat it when us growth is 1 and 2%
00:39:40
everybody's fighting exactly but when us
00:39:42
growth is 4 to 5% everybody prospers
00:39:45
yeah can you walk us through just how
00:39:46
you think about how we get that extra
00:39:48
two or 300 basis points of growth and
00:39:50
where you need to have less regulation
00:39:52
so that you can have more
00:39:53
entrepreneurship or more regulation to
00:39:55
kind of constrain folks how do you think
00:39:57
for that energy sector yeah I mean I I I
00:40:00
really do think that we have to
00:40:01
recognize that we have massively
00:40:06
overregulation Transportation
00:40:08
over-regulated energy over-regulated
00:40:10
home construction uh I don't know that
00:40:12
it's I don't know how easy it is to get
00:40:14
another 300 bips of growth but I think
00:40:16
you can get a lot more growth whether
00:40:18
it's 300 or 150 just by massively
00:40:21
reducing the amount of regulatory burden
00:40:23
in the real economy and again I I'm an
00:40:25
optimist I'm fundamentally an optimist
00:40:27
on both you know crypto blockchain web 3
00:40:31
stuff but also on AI and you know the
00:40:34
way out of this may very well be to
00:40:37
radically open up the way the
00:40:39
technological innovation drives things
00:40:41
in the United States and and just on
00:40:43
this point about China uh I don't know
00:40:45
how much time we're we have I'll try to
00:40:47
be quick about this one of the things
00:40:48
that Bob lik you need okay more about
00:40:51
you all right well I'm a politician so
00:40:53
uh Buckle in we're going to be here for
00:40:55
three hours L but
00:40:57
um one of the real conceits of the 30
00:41:01
years of globalization that I think was
00:41:03
really really deranged and hindsight
00:41:04
very wrong Bob leiser who is Trump's
00:41:06
trade representative talks a lot about
00:41:08
this is we had this conceit that we
00:41:09
could separate the manufacturer of
00:41:12
things from the design of things right
00:41:13
so if you get an iPhone right now and
00:41:15
you get it out of the box you will see
00:41:17
that it says designed in Cupertino
00:41:19
California of course the implication is
00:41:21
that it's manufactured in chinen or
00:41:23
wherever they're manufacturing iPhones
00:41:24
these days that that the idea that the
00:41:26
iPhone designed in Cupertino is
00:41:29
increasingly no longer even true right
00:41:31
it's something that we lie to ourselves
00:41:32
about because the people who are doing
00:41:34
all the manufacturing of the hardware of
00:41:36
the iPhone are getting much better at
00:41:38
design and Innovation and part of the
00:41:40
reason why I care so much about this
00:41:41
manufacturing thing is whether it's
00:41:42
antibiotics for example why why haven't
00:41:45
why hasn't America invented an
00:41:46
antibiotic in 30 years it probably has
00:41:48
something to do with the manufacturer of
00:41:49
antibiotics has done almost entirely in
00:41:52
very lowcost manufacturing areas you can
00:41:54
go through a whole host of goods like
00:41:56
this but if you want to build a high
00:41:59
tech High Dynamic growth economy you
00:42:02
have to have some native manufacturing
00:42:06
and some self-reliance and so these two
00:42:08
things are very related and I think it's
00:42:10
a big part of getting back to four or 5%
00:42:12
growth is accepting that yes we're going
00:42:14
to have trade but we can't let everybody
00:42:16
make all of our stuff SX yeah let me a
00:42:18
question for you yeah
00:42:20
well I want to I want to wrap this up
00:42:23
because I think we're we're basically at
00:42:24
Time by um by just observing that both
00:42:28
Donald Trump and JD Vance have been on
00:42:30
this podcast and it's not because I'm a
00:42:32
crazy right-winger it's because we
00:42:35
invited them just because not just
00:42:36
because
00:42:39
um it's it's because we invited them and
00:42:42
they accepted we have similarly invited
00:42:45
KLA Harris and Tim Waltz to and before
00:42:48
that but he
00:42:53
forgot so we're We're still wai he said
00:42:56
yes forgot
00:42:58
he lost the he lost the zoom
00:43:00
link so we we want to re to be on this
00:43:03
call yeah we want to re extend the
00:43:05
invitation yes to KLA Harris and Tim
00:43:08
Waltz you're welcome to come on the
00:43:10
podcast at any time and the format will
00:43:12
be similar yeah and I just want to say
00:43:14
JD I think your answers were fantastic
00:43:16
here today and I I really do appreciate
00:43:17
you coming on and answering these
00:43:19
questions very thoughtfully and you know
00:43:22
from my perspective when I heard that
00:43:24
you were announced as the VP I thought
00:43:26
well this is great a young person um
00:43:28
who's got a lot of experience in venture
00:43:30
capital and Building Things in the world
00:43:33
and somebody who comes from humble
00:43:34
beginnings like the four of us um and
00:43:37
believes that a meritocracy where people
00:43:39
work hard and get reward for it so you
00:43:41
check all my boxes in that way and I
00:43:44
really think I feel much better you know
00:43:47
have my issues with your boss but um
00:43:51
when you talk about you know the
00:43:53
bite-size you know steps to it you know
00:43:56
I think one frame work to look at your
00:43:57
relationship with Trump is he says
00:43:59
things you know at the top of the the
00:44:01
highest vibration we're going to deport
00:44:02
20 million people and then you have a
00:44:04
very practical approach 60% tffs makes
00:44:06
no sense but hey we've got to rebalance
00:44:08
this and so I really do like your
00:44:10
measured approach to this and I think
00:44:11
that you're a great counterbalance and I
00:44:13
think we understand why he picked it I I
00:44:14
want to say one thing
00:44:17
um
00:44:22
thanks and this is not really related to
00:44:24
anything except that you are not
00:44:26
supposed to be here that's exactly right
00:44:29
yeah and that is really inspiring to
00:44:31
other people who were not supposed to be
00:44:33
here thank you well yeah I appr and if
00:44:35
you haven't read JD's book I read your
00:44:38
book long before all of this and I just
00:44:40
want to say your book was so inspiring
00:44:42
and I I have recommended it long before
00:44:44
today to you know literally hundreds of
00:44:47
people it's a fantastic read if you
00:44:49
haven't read it well and by the way
00:44:51
available wherever books are
00:44:53
sold you're like Jak out exactly do you
00:44:57
have an affiliate 529 account for the
00:44:59
kids let I just just just two things
00:45:03
first of all Jason I I appreciate what
00:45:06
you said but I also just want to defend
00:45:08
uh my my running mate here because I
00:45:09
think that again the media doesn't often
00:45:12
tell you the truth about Donald Trump
00:45:13
Donald Trump cares more about the
00:45:14
details of public policy than almost
00:45:16
anyone I've ever met in public life
00:45:18
that's actually real he thinks about how
00:45:20
this stuff affects the real economy and
00:45:22
Real Americans so if you're on the fence
00:45:25
whether you like what I said or dislike
00:45:26
what I said I just encourage you listen
00:45:29
to what he actually says because I think
00:45:30
that you'll become a believer that he
00:45:32
can make the country great again as he
00:45:34
promises uh but but but separate from
00:45:36
that I just want to say this is such an
00:45:39
important conversation and you guys hold
00:45:41
and host important conversations every
00:45:43
single day we should do more of it as a
00:45:45
country but I'm glad to participate
00:45:46
today God bless everyone thank you
00:45:47
ladies and gentlemen JD
00:45:50
[Music]
00:45:53
Vince that's great
00:45:55
[Applause]
