00:00:00
all right everybody as you know there
00:00:02
was a big verdict that came out today in
00:00:06
the Trump trial in New York City however
00:00:08
it came right after we were taping so
00:00:10
enjoy this episode and then at the end
00:00:13
we'll go around the horn and get quick
00:00:15
reaction from each of the besties on
00:00:17
what they think of the Trump guilty
00:00:19
verdict in the New York hush money trial
00:00:22
and a little update on the market close
00:00:25
and tech stocks tanking in after hours
00:00:27
trading stick with us man
00:00:30
what a week I've had oh you have an
00:00:32
intro oh I smell an
00:00:34
intro tell us J what kind of week have
00:00:36
you had what kind of week have you
00:00:38
incredible you know I got uh you know
00:00:40
I've always been a fan of Howard Stern
00:00:42
and uh his agent Don buckwell called me
00:00:45
he saw the show last week is all true
00:00:48
and uh they said they want to start a
00:00:50
production company so I started a
00:00:51
production company and I've already got
00:00:53
my first show I've signed my first show
00:00:55
The Pilot what is the show well here it
00:00:57
is let me show you thanks for asking
00:01:01
what you are witnessing is
00:01:03
real the besties are not actors the
00:01:07
cases are real both parties have agreed
00:01:10
to settle their disputes here in our
00:01:14
Forum jcal production the rainman's
00:01:18
court yeah lafare on today's show
00:01:22
shamama guilty of first degree un
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buttoning freedberg accused of plastic
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perjury Jason appealing his grifting
00:01:31
conviction throwing the book at felonius
00:01:35
fouchi welcome to the stand Judge David
00:01:38
Sachs H water burn baby nice that's
00:01:41
really good it's a first show from Jake
00:01:43
I'm the judge then what does that make
00:01:44
you are you like the BFF like I'm kind
00:01:46
of like the host you know like the um
00:01:49
this guy who does American Idol Ryan
00:01:52
seest I'm like going to be the new Ryan
00:01:54
seest that's what they envisioned for me
00:01:56
and that's my first spin-off show so
00:01:58
here we go
00:02:00
let your winners
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ride Rainman
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[Music]
00:02:07
David said we open source it to the fans
00:02:09
and they've just gone crazy
00:02:11
[Music]
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with there's a lot of news my inbox is
00:02:18
blowing up I went over to threads to see
00:02:20
what was going on over there and I got
00:02:21
absolutely Savage threads is like all
00:02:24
the hall monitors left one school like
00:02:26
if they took the four hall monitors from
00:02:28
every school in the country and you put
00:02:29
them all in one
00:02:31
place what is threads is like uh
00:02:35
Zuckerberg's Twitter Revenge killer that
00:02:38
he created but all the journalists and
00:02:40
woke folks went there and then all the
00:02:42
conspiracy theories took over X and
00:02:44
Twitter and like freedom of speech in
00:02:46
one place and then the hall monitors in
00:02:47
the other but my Lord the inbound I'm
00:02:49
getting Sachs on apparently you're
00:02:51
having a party this Thursday and uh a
00:02:54
couple of people are coming a Suare well
00:02:57
it's my birthday it's my birthday party
00:02:59
oh yeah okay so there's a little Suare
00:03:01
happening saaks Enlighten the audience
00:03:03
uh what are you up to well we're hosting
00:03:06
an event for president
00:03:10
Trump just do a spit T I'm sorry what
00:03:13
did you say you spit all your
00:03:16
water what yeah we're we're hosting an
00:03:19
event for the on Once and Future
00:03:20
president 45 and 45 is soon to be 47
00:03:25
who's we as I saw from your own polling
00:03:27
data that you tweeted this morning Jason
00:03:28
oh God it's so dark
00:03:30
it's so dark's I mean the betting
00:03:32
markets are just basically they they
00:03:35
seem to have already made their decision
00:03:36
the betting markets right and the
00:03:37
betting markets they're not always right
00:03:39
but they were wrong actually about
00:03:41
Hillary and Trump so who knows and po
00:03:43
polling historically has underestimated
00:03:46
Trump's support because people have been
00:03:49
reluctant to say they're supporting him
00:03:50
for some reason so yeah things are
00:03:53
looking very positive for for Trump
00:03:54
right now but in any event we're hosting
00:03:56
a a fundraiser for him and um
00:04:00
he said that he wants to come on the
00:04:02
all-in Pod at some point so we just need
00:04:03
to schedule that and by the way we did
00:04:05
this for let's not forget we did this
00:04:08
for RFK Jr yeah he appeared on the Pod
00:04:10
we did a fundraiser for him we did it
00:04:12
for V RMA Swami came on the Pod we did a
00:04:15
fundraiser for him we did it for Dean
00:04:17
Phillips yeah that's right Chris chrisy
00:04:20
came on and Chris chrisy came on
00:04:21
although I don't think we technically
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did a fundraiser but we would
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have and we've asked President Biden and
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we have not heard back and and when we
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sorry sorry let me just let me askam so
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first of all who's we and chamat would
00:04:34
you host a fundraiser for Biden as well
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as Trump absolutely look here's the
00:04:38
thing I am an apolitical person who has
00:04:41
to make a difficult decision every four
00:04:43
years and I think most of us are like
00:04:45
that I don't think it's so easy to wake
00:04:47
up in the morning and say oh I'm clearly
00:04:49
a Republican or I'm clearly a Democrat
00:04:51
there's parts of both sides that appeal
00:04:54
to me and so you have to make these
00:04:56
reason decisions and then that gets even
00:04:58
more complicated right so the most
00:05:01
important thing for me is get as many
00:05:03
people on in a position to tell their
00:05:06
version of the truth so that you can see
00:05:09
an unfiltered version of that truth and
00:05:11
decide for yourself so I was really
00:05:14
blown away when I heard Dean Phillips
00:05:18
and Bobby and I thought there's parts of
00:05:20
both of those platforms that I agree
00:05:21
with there's parts that I disagree and
00:05:23
the same thing happened when I sat down
00:05:25
with VI I thought that I wouldn't agree
00:05:26
with much I ended up agreeing with a lot
00:05:29
there's a lot of stuff that Trump in
00:05:30
hindsight again as I've said before that
00:05:32
he did which was really helpful to
00:05:34
America and one big thing which had he
00:05:37
done frankly sets up our children which
00:05:40
is these hundred-year bonds and
00:05:42
defraying the cost of all of this
00:05:43
indebtedness far out into the future so
00:05:47
there's many things and I think there's
00:05:48
things that Biden has done that I think
00:05:50
will look back and say those were good
00:05:51
things that he did and then there are
00:05:53
things in the future or today that I
00:05:55
think that we could disagree with as
00:05:56
well so the point is I would like this
00:06:00
place to be a place where impartiality
00:06:03
rules where we can be on all sides of an
00:06:06
issue and just decide what makes the
00:06:08
most sense after looking at the facts
00:06:10
and I would like four years from now
00:06:13
every major political candidate for
00:06:15
president to look at Allin as the first
00:06:17
place and I think if we can earn that
00:06:19
trust and have the Integrity to allow
00:06:22
all sides to tell a fair story that is
00:06:24
going to be a really powerful thing and
00:06:26
an artifact to leave behind for people
00:06:28
well in fact our K believes that we shot
00:06:31
him out of a cannon is I think what he
00:06:33
said or something and that that we got
00:06:34
the sort of cany going V I think also
00:06:37
kind of debuted here in a major way to
00:06:39
be clear all Inn isn't hosting the
00:06:41
fundraiser sax you and chamath are I'm
00:06:44
not donating I'm not going freeberg
00:06:46
you're not donating I don't know if
00:06:47
you're going or not I think you told me
00:06:49
you're not going you're not donating or
00:06:51
going got it okay he waved his hand um
00:06:54
and so I don't know look donating to
00:06:56
local candidate as a individual choice
00:06:58
that each person's have to decide if
00:07:00
they want to do it right as Americans we
00:07:02
can do that yeah if you're willing to
00:07:04
open your pocketbook which I know
00:07:05
Jason's not something that you're
00:07:06
inclined to do very often no I mean I I
00:07:09
don't I'm not like big into politics and
00:07:11
the idea of giving money to politicians
00:07:13
to me not my thing you know I have I'd
00:07:15
rather invest in the next startup to be
00:07:17
totally honest if I'm going to put 50k
00:07:18
towards something or God forbid 250k for
00:07:21
me I'll put that in a startup that's
00:07:22
what I like to do but you know
00:07:24
everybody's different and you know for
00:07:26
the people who are asking me to not be
00:07:27
friends with Sachs anymore I'm going to
00:07:29
be friends with SX forever we love each
00:07:31
other besties and he can have a
00:07:34
different opinion than me I I'm getting
00:07:36
totally absolutely crucified that I'm
00:07:38
supporting Trump and how could I be
00:07:40
friends with SX go f yourself sax is my
00:07:42
friend we can have a difference of
00:07:43
opinion on some topics good for you J
00:07:47
maybe you could learn something from it
00:07:48
good for you sorry I'll just say I've
00:07:50
heard the same thing and I told friends
00:07:53
and others that have reached out why are
00:07:55
you associating yourself with people
00:07:57
that are doing a fundraiser for Trump
00:07:59
and I said exactly because I think it's
00:08:01
really important that people can have
00:08:04
different political interests different
00:08:06
points of view different beliefs and
00:08:08
still be friends and still have a
00:08:10
conversation if we can model that in any
00:08:13
way I think it moves the needle because
00:08:15
this whole thing where you only speak
00:08:17
with only hang out with only talk to
00:08:19
only have dinner with people that you
00:08:20
agree with I think is exactly what got
00:08:22
us in the mess that we're in today
00:08:24
people need to have a broader
00:08:25
perspective so well said and and I and
00:08:28
I'll support you guys with what ever in
00:08:30
terms of like being your friends I'm not
00:08:32
going to ever judge you guys in terms of
00:08:33
what you believe in or choose to do
00:08:35
we've said this before but you know in
00:08:38
the end what do you have you have your
00:08:40
family you have your children you have
00:08:42
your friends and hopefully you have work
00:08:44
that gives you some purpose and in all
00:08:46
of that if there are random people that
00:08:48
are judging you for one thing they'll
00:08:49
eventually judge you for another thing
00:08:51
and that is not a path to any sort of
00:08:53
contentment I've donated to Bobby
00:08:55
Kennedy I've donated to the Democrats
00:08:58
massively and I'll donate to Donald
00:09:00
Trump and if there's an opportunity to
00:09:04
uh talk to President Biden and really
00:09:06
understand where he's at I donate to him
00:09:08
as well and so the point is that I would
00:09:11
like to be an organizing principal and I
00:09:15
would like to
00:09:17
replace today the places that I don't
00:09:19
trust to organize and give unfiltered
00:09:22
access to knowledge and those things are
00:09:24
the mainstream media and so I'm willing
00:09:26
to put my resources behind being that
00:09:28
organizing principle and I think having
00:09:30
a broad cross-section of friends who
00:09:32
have different political beliefs is
00:09:34
actually a useful thing for a lot of
00:09:35
these candidates because as it turns out
00:09:38
most people are sort of in the middle
00:09:40
and most people in any given election
00:09:43
can be persuaded one way or the other so
00:09:45
the most important thing that we can do
00:09:47
is get all of them give all of them an
00:09:49
opportunity to really tell an unfiltered
00:09:52
version of their truth and then let the
00:09:54
chips fall where they may that is the
00:09:56
right thing to do for America that's
00:09:57
what democracy means so this kind of
00:10:00
like cajoling and bullying in either
00:10:02
side I find really distasteful and I
00:10:05
find very immature yeah and it's not
00:10:07
going to work what's amazing is I mean I
00:10:09
really haven't gotten any blowback you
00:10:11
know there was a question about people
00:10:13
ask me have you gotten blowback from
00:10:14
this thing and no not really I mean
00:10:16
other than the reporter knocking on my
00:10:18
door and that kind of stuff but people
00:10:21
really same it hasn't really created
00:10:23
blowback and I think you guys are
00:10:25
getting more blowback and that's an
00:10:26
indication of just sort of the Cowardly
00:10:29
response to it which is you know it's
00:10:32
like a cancellation tactic we're going
00:10:33
to try and like go behind your back and
00:10:36
ostracize you instead of even telling
00:10:37
you to your face what you think and I
00:10:40
think the reason why they're doing that
00:10:42
is because quite frankly there's a lot
00:10:43
of preference falsification going on in
00:10:45
Silicon Valley I know there's a lot of
00:10:47
people in Silicon Valley who well we
00:10:50
know because of we know who's
00:10:52
coming yeah you have a list of people
00:10:54
who don't I mean look nobody is excited
00:10:56
about Biden okay nobody's excited about
00:10:59
right now so the only question is do
00:11:01
they hold their nose and vote for him or
00:11:03
do they vote for Trump or do they vote
00:11:04
for Bobby Kennedy but there's a lot of
00:11:07
people who I do think support Trump and
00:11:11
look we've AB tested this right it'd be
00:11:12
different if we didn't have four years
00:11:14
of Biden four years of trump there's a
00:11:16
lot of people who can look back and say
00:11:18
that the ab test we ran indicates Trump
00:11:21
so I know there's going to be a lot of
00:11:23
people who support Trump but they don't
00:11:24
want to admit it and I think that this
00:11:27
event is going to break the ice on that
00:11:29
and maybe it'll create a preference
00:11:30
Cascade where all of a sudden it becomes
00:11:32
acceptable to acknowledge the truth and
00:11:36
which is a lot of people support Trump
00:11:38
and and it's not just this it's also
00:11:39
Steve schwarzman came out I think bill
00:11:41
amman's on the edge of coming out for
00:11:44
Trump so there's a lot of people who are
00:11:46
now like flipping and I think it could
00:11:49
really start to Cascade on itself I
00:11:50
think the thing that hasn't happened yet
00:11:52
is we haven't actually now started to
00:11:55
talk about the Contours of a handful of
00:11:57
policy things where there is some deep
00:12:00
diversion now where these candidates are
00:12:03
diverging from each other and I think
00:12:05
that that's going to be really
00:12:06
interesting to see how much people value
00:12:10
that differentiation I'll give you an
00:12:12
example which is President Trump in the
00:12:14
last few weeks has become incredibly Pro
00:12:18
crypto now the Contours of that I think
00:12:20
we need to Define right but the question
00:12:23
is is a pro crypto environment
00:12:25
especially in a world where we think
00:12:27
that there's just going to be continued
00:12:28
doll debasement an important issue an
00:12:32
unimportant issue or a thing that is a
00:12:35
small issue today but that will be
00:12:37
critical for us in 20 and 30 years to
00:12:39
get right that's an example and there's
00:12:42
a handful of these other things that I
00:12:44
think that now we have a chance to
00:12:45
really double click on where there
00:12:47
really is some differentiation amongst
00:12:49
the three presidential candidates and I
00:12:51
think that's healthy as well and so it's
00:12:52
important again get their specific
00:12:55
thoughts on the record so that we can
00:12:57
really figure this out and I think that
00:13:00
over these next few months I think it's
00:13:02
going to be important to do that so I
00:13:04
hope President Biden also comes on the
00:13:06
Pod quite honestly and come on the
00:13:07
allows us to ask him the hard
00:13:10
questions and I hope Bobby comes back on
00:13:13
actually and I think Bobby will if we
00:13:14
ask him just to tighten up where he's at
00:13:17
now a few months before yeah there's
00:13:19
definitely a lot of great followup
00:13:20
questions I would love to interview
00:13:21
Trump I'll ask him hard questions I'll
00:13:23
respect him as president 45 and as a
00:13:25
candidate so for people who like are
00:13:27
like you have Trump derangement syndrome
00:13:28
like that's just like a childish thing
00:13:31
to say I I disagree with his policies
00:13:33
I'll ask him questions hey why don't you
00:13:34
support EVS like that's a valid question
00:13:37
to ask him why is he anti- EV he said
00:13:39
all these crazy things about EVs and
00:13:40
then apparently he's courting yon
00:13:42
privately I don't know if that's true or
00:13:43
not but you know there's there's hard
00:13:45
questions and I'm sure he'll answer them
00:13:47
and he's more than capable of doing it
00:13:49
exced I'm really I'm really excited for
00:13:51
president Trump to come on the podcast
00:13:53
love that and for me I'll be totally
00:13:55
honest I think the Democrats have to
00:13:56
wake up for a second and just like take
00:13:59
the temperature of the room like read
00:14:00
the room Democrats you have put up a
00:14:03
candidate that nobody wants his policies
00:14:05
on the border and some other issues are
00:14:08
not you know in sync with the majority
00:14:10
of the country at some point the
00:14:11
Democrats just have to take a deep look
00:14:13
in the mirror James Carell is doing and
00:14:15
a bunch of them are doing and say we
00:14:16
feeled a bad candidate who's too old and
00:14:19
people don't believe will stand up to
00:14:21
scrutiny of like say being on the all-in
00:14:23
Pod for two hours or in the debates or
00:14:26
with a hostile interviewer or any of
00:14:28
those possibilities
00:14:29
and so I think if that's the case we
00:14:32
really need to have the Democrats think
00:14:35
deeply about maybe fiing a different
00:14:37
candidate I believe that's what's going
00:14:38
to happen in the next 30 to 60 days so
00:14:41
I'm predicting you think there G be a
00:14:42
switch foro 100% I mean if you
00:14:45
just 100% there'll be a Switcheroo who's
00:14:48
the switcheroo I have no idea could be
00:14:50
Gavin could be anybody anything's
00:14:52
possible I think Trump's going to
00:14:53
demolish him in the debate I think he'll
00:14:55
sink to 30% in the in the polls and then
00:14:59
the Republicans are going to find a I'm
00:15:00
sorry the Democrats will find a way to
00:15:02
give him a graceful out and then they'll
00:15:03
feel somebody else when's the first
00:15:05
debate June 17th can I respond to that J
00:15:08
I saw your Tweet basically saying
00:15:09
something very similar that Democrats
00:15:11
need to wake up and you know recognize
00:15:14
the situation they're in I think this is
00:15:16
a case of once you've made your bed you
00:15:19
have to sleep in it look the Democrats
00:15:22
have set the table pursuing certain
00:15:25
policies for the last three and a half
00:15:26
years we've had an open border we had so
00:15:29
much spending that it fed into this
00:15:31
inflation which jacked up interest rates
00:15:34
we had Ukraine become the central
00:15:36
Obsession of focus of our politics which
00:15:39
blew up in Biden's face with the whole
00:15:42
Sumer counter offensive I mean I could
00:15:44
go on you have the hostility to crypto
00:15:46
which they're now trying to desperately
00:15:47
backpedal on but you had three years of
00:15:50
Elizabeth Warren and gendler basically
00:15:52
making crypto the enemy and now all of a
00:15:54
sudden we're at first and goal at that
00:15:56
like 10 yard line and you're all of a
00:15:57
sudden saying well just read the room
00:16:00
and make all these changes you can't you
00:16:02
know I don't think people are going to
00:16:03
be fooled by that we've AB tested this
00:16:06
thing we've had three and a half years
00:16:07
of Biden four years of trump who do you
00:16:10
like
00:16:11
better and we're what how many months
00:16:13
are we from pulling the the lever five
00:16:16
months never too late I'm telling him to
00:16:18
do it don't take Sax's advice he is a
00:16:21
hardcore partisan who wants to win
00:16:22
desperately take JC's advice field
00:16:24
another candidate the worst thing the
00:16:27
Republicans could ever deal with is a
00:16:29
great candidate who can speak and who's
00:16:31
Nimble on their feet because I think
00:16:33
people are looking for a choice that's
00:16:34
not these two individuals I'm not gonna
00:16:37
say I'm anti-trump I'm not gonna say I'm
00:16:38
anti why don't you support Bobby Kennedy
00:16:40
then I don't think he's gonna have the
00:16:43
platform behind him to get enough votes
00:16:44
I think the Democrats need to
00:16:46
immediately this month in June do the
00:16:49
switcheroo and if they do I think they
00:16:51
win in a l they had chance they had
00:16:53
their chance they could have gone for
00:16:54
Bobby they drove Bobby out of the party
00:16:58
start he didn't start as independent he
00:17:00
started as I know by his last name
00:17:02
Democrat Kennedy Democrat you had Dean
00:17:04
Phillips Dean Phillips took the chance
00:17:07
yeah and of course he was pushed out not
00:17:09
of the party but basically ostracized
00:17:11
they had their chance I think you know
00:17:14
if I want to be a strategist this is
00:17:15
just a conspiracy theory I don't want to
00:17:17
go to like chin foil hat corner I think
00:17:19
the Democrats as cynical as it sounds
00:17:21
were waiting to see what happens with
00:17:22
this Trump trials conviction what you
00:17:24
call law fair what other people call
00:17:26
fair use of the law and then they are
00:17:29
going to see how he does in the debates
00:17:31
that's why they move the debate up in
00:17:32
June and I think they know to pull the
00:17:34
plug on this if it gets too far gone and
00:17:37
they have the ability to do that because
00:17:39
all he's got to say is you know what I I
00:17:42
I'm I'm feeling old and I want us to win
00:17:44
and I'm going to slot somebody else in
00:17:45
but listen let's go get to this hug
00:17:48
translate what you just said which is
00:17:50
the Democrats hope to put Trump in jail
00:17:52
using lawfare and when that fails they
00:17:54
realize that they're going to lose the
00:17:55
election to him and they've got a big
00:17:57
problem so they're going to try some
00:17:58
desperate strategy to find a new
00:17:59
candidate but it's way too late for that
00:18:01
I think
00:18:03
precisely okay we AG thank you for
00:18:05
repeating back to me and I think the
00:18:07
only disagreement we might have there is
00:18:09
I would agree like there's law for in
00:18:10
two of the cases and I think two of the
00:18:12
cases I think are are should be pursued
00:18:15
but you know we can intelligent people
00:18:17
as we said at the start of this can
00:18:18
agree to disagree about it and I think
00:18:20
you should all take if you're a listener
00:18:22
to this podcast you're smart if you're
00:18:24
here you're smart you're not listening
00:18:25
to two-hour podcasts with us going this
00:18:28
deep on isues if you're not a brilliant
00:18:30
smart and attractive individual so let's
00:18:32
get to the docket and
00:18:34
presid yes that's right just say he
00:18:36
heard brilliant and attractive and here
00:18:39
all right listen I I hate to go into
00:18:42
another um controversial topic but the
00:18:45
four of us were all on fire about this
00:18:48
apparently the uh covid-19 investigation
00:18:52
is leaning towards a massive cover up
00:18:55
there's a subcommittee going on right
00:18:56
now the world's not paying attention to
00:18:58
this but I think some Savvy people are
00:19:01
especially over on X there's a lot of
00:19:02
great journalists who are doing
00:19:04
incredible investigative work let me
00:19:06
just catch everybody up in the audience
00:19:08
real quick here and get the best these
00:19:09
involved over the past year and a half a
00:19:11
house subcommittee uh has been focused
00:19:13
on the origins of
00:19:14
covid-19 and they've been investigating
00:19:16
the nih's ties with gain of function
00:19:18
research in Wuhan the subcommittee was
00:19:21
painted early on as like this is angry
00:19:23
Republicans this is about mask mandates
00:19:25
it was like highly politicized but it's
00:19:27
actually turned out to be very effective
00:19:30
bipartisan investigation we'll get on
00:19:32
we'll get in on that in a minute but so
00:19:34
far most of the investigation has
00:19:36
focused on nailing down this timeline of
00:19:38
communication between NIH officials and
00:19:41
an organization called Eco Health
00:19:43
Alliance this is a nonprofit that's
00:19:45
focused on infectious disease research
00:19:48
now these uh committee videos are online
00:19:50
we'll pay you play you on in a moment
00:19:52
but through funding in the NIH the uh
00:19:54
Eco Health Organization was awarded
00:19:56
research grants to various labs this
00:19:58
included the Wuhan Institute of virology
00:20:01
the the infamous one Eco Health violated
00:20:04
terms of its grants by failing to report
00:20:07
that gain of function experiments were
00:20:09
being conducted in Wuhan Ecco Health was
00:20:11
supposed to report any experiment that
00:20:13
exhibited characteristics leading into
00:20:14
being 10 times more infectious but when
00:20:17
that happened it failed to disclose This
00:20:19
research to the mih and on May 17th a
00:20:21
deputy director of the NIH acknowledged
00:20:24
that the agency funded gain of function
00:20:26
research in Wuhan via Eco health
00:20:29
this is the key because fouchi initially
00:20:31
denied this during his 2021 Senate
00:20:35
hearing fouchi said quote I totally
00:20:37
resent the lie you are now propagating
00:20:38
in response to questions from Rand Paul
00:20:40
about the lab League Theory so foui
00:20:42
either didn't know or he lied under oath
00:20:45
let me pause there for a second there's
00:20:46
a lot more to the story but when you
00:20:49
hear this sort of setup freedberg our
00:20:51
Sultan of Science in this uh initial
00:20:54
setup what Rings uh concerning to you
00:20:57
true to you and then we'll go on and
00:20:58
play some clips of this testimony which
00:21:00
is pretty wild I don't think that pre
00:21:04
the emergence of the pandemic that there
00:21:07
was nefarious motives in other words
00:21:10
their funding of this was not done to
00:21:12
create a pandemic it might have been a
00:21:14
mistake in hindsight but yeah for for
00:21:16
many years particularly following the
00:21:18
original SARS pandemic there was a lot
00:21:21
of conversations around how do we get in
00:21:23
front of the next pandemic how do we
00:21:25
figure out what's coming and how do we
00:21:27
prepare for it and there was a lot of
00:21:30
research that was launched to try and
00:21:32
resolve that key
00:21:35
question this is like the movie 12
00:21:37
Monkeys you guys ever see that movie at
00:21:39
one point sure it's like does the effort
00:21:43
to try and stop the problem cause the
00:21:45
problem I think that for from my point
00:21:47
of view there's a very high probability
00:21:49
that there
00:21:50
was some
00:21:52
leak that meant that the work that was
00:21:54
going on to try and get in front of the
00:21:56
next pandemic and understand what we
00:21:57
could do to prepare ourselves and what
00:21:59
vaccines could be developed and so on
00:22:01
actually led to the pandemic so then
00:22:02
when that happens how do you respond
00:22:04
when you're sitting in that
00:22:05
seat that's that's the key question that
00:22:07
I think this committee is uncovering do
00:22:09
you think there is a cover up freeer
00:22:10
what is your intuition on that yeah I
00:22:12
think that these guys definitely didn't
00:22:14
want I I think what they were trying to
00:22:16
do was prevent that from being the focal
00:22:17
point and protect their own asses at the
00:22:19
same time do you think they should go to
00:22:21
jail I don't know the extent of it yet
00:22:23
it'd be good to get more information
00:22:25
from this whole thing yeah so let me
00:22:26
queue up those next details because I
00:22:27
will say this guy that gave testimony
00:22:29
last week where he was like deliberately
00:22:31
changing the names of people in the
00:22:32
email Anderson and he put the dollar
00:22:34
sign so that you couldn't find that
00:22:36
email when you did a Foya search he knew
00:22:38
what he was doing he knew I don't
00:22:41
understand how you could say this wasn't
00:22:43
nefarious this whole thing was nefarious
00:22:45
from top to bottom well yeah let me cue
00:22:47
this up here sax and then get your why
00:22:49
are you exonerating it hold on let me
00:22:50
ceue it up all right so we started to
00:22:51
see some uh consequences and
00:22:53
accountability last week the US
00:22:55
Department of Health cut all funding to
00:22:57
Eco Health in respon to the committee's
00:22:59
investigation they disbarred its
00:23:01
president Peter daik daik yeah daik and
00:23:05
so we don't have direct evidence to be
00:23:07
clear that the pandemic was the result
00:23:08
of a lab
00:23:10
league and you know just even saying the
00:23:13
lab league would have gotten this the
00:23:15
fear and cleavage site makes it clear
00:23:18
that this was a lab leak that's not a
00:23:20
naturally occurring virus the fear and
00:23:23
Cleveland sites were engineered let's go
00:23:25
to that in just one second and
00:23:27
thankfully this isn't going to get our
00:23:29
YouTube channel shut down because we
00:23:31
have freedom of speech back a little bit
00:23:33
but this is where it gets really
00:23:35
interesting emails were written as Ecco
00:23:39
Health with a Tilda that's that little
00:23:41
squiggly line uh instead of an O and uh
00:23:45
they would spell Anderson uh with a
00:23:47
dollar sign in the E Christian Anderson
00:23:50
in this example is a biologist who was
00:23:52
reportedly awarded 9 million grants from
00:23:54
the NIH two months after publishing a
00:23:55
paper claiming did Co did not come from
00:23:57
a lab and so let's get to some of these
00:24:00
clips here's a clip of Fouch she's
00:24:02
former top adviser David Moren getting
00:24:05
grilled in the hearing and I'll play two
00:24:08
clips and then I'll give it to you s on
00:24:10
October 25th 2021 another scientist
00:24:12
wrote quote David is concerned about the
00:24:14
privacy of text and other messages from
00:24:17
his cell phone to you and me because he
00:24:19
has been using a government phone this
00:24:21
came from Tony end quote sir did you
00:24:23
ever have any conversations with Dr
00:24:25
fouchy regarding using personal phone or
00:24:28
email to communicate with Dr daic I
00:24:30
don't remember it it's possible you know
00:24:33
I probably wouldn't have remembered and
00:24:34
I don't remember it on January 18th you
00:24:36
testified that you did not have any
00:24:39
conversations with Dr fouchy regarding
00:24:41
Ecco Health on October 25th 2021 you
00:24:45
wrote quote Peter from Tony's numerous
00:24:49
recent comments to me they're trying to
00:24:51
protect you end quote you meaning Eco
00:24:55
health and Dr Dass Dr Bren did you ever
00:24:58
have any conversations with Dr fouchy
00:25:00
regarding Eco Health well the ones you
00:25:03
just mentioned I don't have any
00:25:04
recollection of that no recollection no
00:25:07
recollection no all right so we're on
00:25:09
the no recollection train and then I'll
00:25:11
give this final clip here this is
00:25:14
unbelievable sax apparently there's a
00:25:16
Foya Lady Lady Freedom of Information
00:25:18
Act lady working at NIH to train and
00:25:22
help and Mentor people on how to avoid
00:25:25
having their Communications these are
00:25:28
people who we work who work for us and
00:25:31
she's the foil lady at NIH play the clip
00:25:34
Nick and as You' said you previously
00:25:36
testified that uh you did not delete any
00:25:39
federal records but on February 24th
00:25:41
2021 you wrote quote I learned from our
00:25:44
Foya lady here how to make emails
00:25:45
disappear after I'm Foy yet but before
00:25:48
the search starts so I think we are all
00:25:50
safe plus I deleted most of those
00:25:52
earlier emails after sending them to
00:25:54
Gmail endend quote and the next day on
00:25:56
February 25th 2021 you wrote quote but I
00:25:59
learned the tricks last year from an old
00:26:01
friend Marge Moore who heads our foia
00:26:04
office and also hates foas end quote yes
00:26:07
or no is Marge Moore the Foya lady you
00:26:10
were referring to uh she was at the time
00:26:12
I believe she's retired since then did
00:26:15
the NIH Foya office instruct you on how
00:26:17
to delete emails or avoid Foya no all
00:26:20
right SX there's your red meet smoking
00:26:23
guns everywhere what do you think please
00:26:24
give me a couple of minutes to kind of
00:26:26
lay out what what happened here okay
00:26:30
so fouchy knew very early as early as
00:26:33
February 1st of 2020 that Co came from a
00:26:36
lab leak the scientist said so all they
00:26:38
had to do is look under our microscope
00:26:39
and see the fur and cleavage site which
00:26:42
is not naturally occurring it's
00:26:44
something that was added basically
00:26:46
bioengineered to the virus in order to
00:26:48
make it more transmissible in humans so
00:26:52
they knew right away that this somehow
00:26:54
came from a lab leak and fouchy and col
00:26:58
said in emails that they were going to
00:27:00
begin a brutal takedown uh in order to
00:27:03
conceal this fundamental truth of the
00:27:04
lab leak from the public now why would
00:27:07
fouchi need to conceal this because he
00:27:09
had funded gain of function research
00:27:12
programs via Peter daik and the Eco
00:27:14
Health Alliance to conduct again gain of
00:27:17
function research at the Wuhan Institute
00:27:19
of virology moreover fouchy was
00:27:22
personally responsible for reversing an
00:27:24
Obama error decision to prohibit gain of
00:27:27
function research because it was so
00:27:28
risky fouchy wrote
00:27:31
op-eds justifying gain and function
00:27:33
research he wrote a paper in 2012 which
00:27:36
was actually quite candid about the risk
00:27:38
of gain of function he describes the
00:27:41
kind of lab leak that could occur in the
00:27:43
type of virus that could escape from a a
00:27:46
lab because of gain of function but then
00:27:49
he says that it's a risk worth taking so
00:27:51
this is somebody who funded the Wuhan
00:27:54
lab he funded gain of function research
00:27:56
he was personally responsible for
00:27:58
lifting the ban on gain of function
00:27:59
research he had a lot of reasons to want
00:28:02
to hide the fact that Co was engineered
00:28:06
in a lab and was lab leak and so we know
00:28:09
that even before this conspiracy to
00:28:12
basically defraud the foyer request that
00:28:14
fouchy had done things like organized
00:28:17
that letter to the Lancet which smeared
00:28:19
and demonized scientists who were trying
00:28:21
to tell the truth saying that the
00:28:23
so-called Zoological theory was nonsense
00:28:25
this had to be from a lab he was doing
00:28:28
things like this and now we have this
00:28:29
added piece which is this longtime
00:28:32
colleague of fan Collins at NIH Dr David
00:28:36
morens developed a strategy for evading
00:28:38
foyer requests that would expose the
00:28:40
truth he did this by deleting government
00:28:42
emails which is a crime by using private
00:28:45
email to conduct government business
00:28:46
which is also a crime and then
00:28:48
strategically misspelling names and
00:28:49
titles to frustrate the foyer searches
00:28:52
and then the craziest part is that
00:28:54
moren's foolishly detailed his schemes
00:28:57
in emails that fouchy would have seen
00:29:00
that fouchy was on the distribution list
00:29:02
of so he has no possible deniability
00:29:04
it's literally like they're like here's
00:29:05
how we can avoid getting caught in an
00:29:07
email you have to see the foyer piece
00:29:11
within the overall picture here which is
00:29:14
yeah fouchy from the gecko was
00:29:18
lying about the origins of covid in
00:29:21
order to cover up his role in in funding
00:29:25
this type of research yes and there was
00:29:27
a comprehensive eort effort by people at
00:29:30
NIH likely at Fouch direction to again
00:29:34
not just cover this up but to smear
00:29:37
scientists they went on the offensive in
00:29:39
addition to trying to cover their their
00:29:42
yeah people like J bataria who then got
00:29:44
banned censored and banned on social
00:29:46
media by the way who is a Stanford
00:29:49
Professor yeah was banned for speaking
00:29:51
up chth let's zoom out here and and
00:29:53
start thinking strategy and theories of
00:29:56
what's going on here I have my own but
00:29:58
I'm curious to hear yours first as we go
00:30:00
around the horn here what what's your
00:30:01
take on this I would like to make four
00:30:04
points I think that kind of summarize my
00:30:06
view of this I think what happened here
00:30:09
needs a really clear accounting because
00:30:13
the implications are far greater than I
00:30:16
think people realize and I think why
00:30:18
maybe the four of us have have always
00:30:19
been tugging on this little thread is
00:30:22
because each of us instinctively
00:30:24
understood that so the first is if you
00:30:27
just look at the macroeconomic
00:30:29
consequences of what Co did and our
00:30:33
reaction we broke the Seal of having
00:30:36
absolutely no accountability on massive
00:30:39
spending right so there are subsidies
00:30:42
there are Kickbacks there are government
00:30:43
programs that now number in the
00:30:45
trillions of dollars a year incremental
00:30:47
to what we were going to spend if things
00:30:50
were the status quo and the problem is
00:30:53
that and freeberg has talked about this
00:30:55
really eloquently in the past it's
00:30:56
creating a massive debt issue
00:30:58
that us and our children and our
00:30:59
grandchildren would have to deal with if
00:31:02
we had responded to this pandemic
00:31:04
differently those issues would not have
00:31:06
occurred if we had just kept the economy
00:31:09
open because we understood what was
00:31:11
going
00:31:12
on we would not have reacted the way
00:31:14
that we did and we would not have nearly
00:31:16
as much debt as we have and we would not
00:31:18
have made it okay for politicians to
00:31:20
spend trillions of dollars that is a
00:31:22
direct consequence of our reaction to co
00:31:25
not Co itself the second is we caused
00:31:29
billions of people all around the world
00:31:31
to take immaturely tested drugs they
00:31:34
were called vaccines we found out that
00:31:37
they were modestly effective at best and
00:31:40
then some of them were designed in some
00:31:42
ways to manipulate our DNA and we just
00:31:44
don't know what the long-term impacts
00:31:46
will be we see some small issues of
00:31:49
myocarditis we see other issues of all
00:31:52
cause mortality but the point is we just
00:31:54
don't know and that would not have
00:31:56
happened had we not rushed to force
00:31:59
people to stand in the line and get a
00:32:01
jab in order to get back to their normal
00:32:03
life that was a direct consequence not
00:32:05
of covid but of a reaction the third is
00:32:09
what we're realizing right now is that
00:32:12
we had this power drunk
00:32:14
appara and this is similar to the quote
00:32:17
that Mike Pompeo made when he took over
00:32:21
the
00:32:22
CIA what he found and he said this after
00:32:25
when he left was there were people on
00:32:27
the top floor of the CIA building the
00:32:29
seventh floor of the Pentagon that
00:32:32
fundamentally believed that it wasn't
00:32:34
the Democrats nor the Republicans that
00:32:36
ran the country but it was them and I
00:32:39
see a similar level of arrogance here
00:32:41
which is this belief that they know
00:32:44
better and so what they did was they
00:32:47
committed the greatest sin which is
00:32:49
where the cover up is way greater than
00:32:51
the crime and they created a setup where
00:32:55
all of these things were Amplified
00:32:58
by their Prestige their perceived
00:33:01
scientific knowledge but what they were
00:33:03
really doing was keeping critical
00:33:05
information to themselves and then
00:33:07
trying to cover it up Jason that is so
00:33:10
unacceptable when you think of the broad
00:33:11
consequences of what happened and that's
00:33:13
what needs to get documented and I do
00:33:16
think there needs to be some form of
00:33:17
accountability for that I think it's
00:33:19
well said and you know just looking at
00:33:21
it I think we are now at the part point
00:33:24
of this conversation and investigation
00:33:26
where we can say this is not a bip
00:33:27
Parton this is issue and everybody knew
00:33:30
like we had these conversations on this
00:33:32
very podcast the public knew something
00:33:34
didn't seem right about this and if you
00:33:35
just think about this from first
00:33:37
principles of what occurred here just
00:33:40
what occurred here freyberg we funded
00:33:44
gain of research to create these super
00:33:47
viruses that what I think other people
00:33:50
could just as equally call a bioweapon
00:33:52
with the Chinese now we're supposed to
00:33:55
be Arch Rivals here we're like these
00:33:57
competitors
00:33:58
and then when it came out and it leaked
00:34:02
and of course I don't think it was
00:34:03
released on purpose when it came out the
00:34:07
people who work for us and we trust with
00:34:09
our family safety who funded this in
00:34:12
order to save their own reputations to
00:34:15
cover their asses then lied about it and
00:34:18
then like as you said sax perfectly they
00:34:21
went on the
00:34:22
offensive these people were not elected
00:34:25
by anybody that's right these people
00:34:27
work for for us and they failed us this
00:34:31
is a crime against humanity of the
00:34:33
greatest cause people committed suicide
00:34:36
people died because they had depression
00:34:39
our kids lost two years of school tot
00:34:42
this generation has lost their education
00:34:45
and now we have burdened them with
00:34:47
billions hundreds of billions of dollars
00:34:49
in debt from this this is trillions
00:34:52
trillions tens of this is a failure of
00:34:56
leadership it is a crime and when people
00:34:59
said prosecute foui they were like
00:35:01
you're being hysterical this is
00:35:02
ridiculous these people need to be
00:35:04
prosecuted if you hid this stuff from a
00:35:08
foiler request you need to go to jail
00:35:10
this needs to be accountability here
00:35:13
think what they did to society our
00:35:15
children in the future I am infuriated
00:35:17
by this imagine what happened in the
00:35:19
situation room or the equivalent
00:35:21
wherever the president of the United
00:35:23
States all these world leaders were
00:35:26
coalescing to try to make decisions in
00:35:28
that period they all looked at this
00:35:30
quote unquote expert they pointed at
00:35:32
fouchi and said lead us out and so do we
00:35:36
not think that at any point he was
00:35:38
thinking how do I do this in a way where
00:35:40
I have no fingerprints clearly the
00:35:41
answer is in fact he was leading from a
00:35:43
position of how will I not have any
00:35:45
fingerprints on this and so do we did we
00:35:48
get the best advice on the margin I
00:35:51
think it's pretty fair to say we could
00:35:53
not have gotten it because he was too
00:35:54
conflicted he was figuring out how to
00:35:57
cover up what happened as opposed to
00:35:59
just own it and then help the world get
00:36:01
out of it yeah I mean I talk about like
00:36:04
incinerating your entire career and
00:36:05
Legacy but putting that aside the
00:36:08
morality of covering this up and you
00:36:11
know so then you have to think shath
00:36:13
this is why I was like what is the
00:36:14
strategy what goes through somebody's
00:36:17
mind when they decide to do a cover up
00:36:18
this level is it just fear of getting
00:36:20
caught and their lives being in their
00:36:23
mind ruined and they're going to do this
00:36:24
incredible cover up I actually think
00:36:27
that they thought this would become a
00:36:29
globally destabilizing moment between
00:36:32
the United States and China and that
00:36:35
there could be revolutions now I know
00:36:37
that this is now sounding really
00:36:38
conspiracy theory but if you're sitting
00:36:40
there and you're like what if the public
00:36:42
finds out we created this and their
00:36:45
grandparents died from it and their kids
00:36:47
didn't go to school because of it there
00:36:48
would be riots in the street but if
00:36:50
enough time passes maybe there's not
00:36:52
riots in the street well you know what
00:36:54
this is something that is just so
00:36:56
abhorent that I mean people need to
00:36:59
really be held accountable freeberg your
00:37:01
thoughts what would you guys do if
00:37:03
you're sitting in a policy Maker's seat
00:37:05
today and you're being offered by
00:37:08
scientists this ability to go and figure
00:37:10
out what the next big virus will be and
00:37:13
start to make plans for getting in front
00:37:14
of it by understanding the biology of
00:37:16
these viruses by seeing where they're
00:37:18
going to evolve to and by trying to get
00:37:20
in front of the next pandemic so that we
00:37:22
can protect the population do you guys
00:37:25
support that sort of research and what
00:37:27
are the questions you ask so let's you
00:37:29
know rewind 15 years pretend fouchi
00:37:31
doesn't get to make those decisions you
00:37:32
guys are the policy makers and folks say
00:37:35
SARS just happened we want to do this
00:37:37
research we want to figure out how get
00:37:39
what do you do and how do you how do you
00:37:40
answer that there's a really simple
00:37:42
there's a really simple question if
00:37:43
anybody who's watched any kind of
00:37:45
science fiction or knows the history of
00:37:46
this kind of research which is don't do
00:37:49
this in a population Center and what how
00:37:51
will you prevent it from breaking out
00:37:53
like literally that's job one if you're
00:37:56
going to even if you're not going to
00:37:59
like literally every science fiction
00:38:01
film has this it's like put it on an
00:38:03
island and there's an island off Long
00:38:04
Island where they keep these things I
00:38:06
forgot the name of it is Plum Island or
00:38:08
something well look it up yeah and by
00:38:10
the way there there are internal NIH
00:38:13
emails that suggest that Co leaked from
00:38:16
a level two facility they call it BSL 2
00:38:19
which does not operate with the top
00:38:21
level biohazard Safeguard so they knew
00:38:23
the Wuhan lab was not at the level of
00:38:25
safeguards that it should have been but
00:38:28
look I would go deeper and say that why
00:38:30
would you do this kind of research at
00:38:32
all I mean you are deliberately
00:38:34
manipulating viruses in order to make
00:38:36
them transmissible in humans this was a
00:38:38
bat virus that was not transmissible to
00:38:42
humans it was bioengineer they add the
00:38:44
fur and cleavage site to allow it to
00:38:46
gain access to human cells yeah so sax I
00:38:48
am going to push back because that is
00:38:51
not conclusively true what you're saying
00:38:53
is something that some people have
00:38:55
claimed but there are other scientists
00:38:57
including papers published recently in
00:38:58
the lanet and other like pretty
00:39:00
reputable like medical journals and
00:39:02
research journals that indicate that the
00:39:04
evolution scene in the fear and cleavage
00:39:06
site can be traced back to an
00:39:08
evolutionary origin not necessarily to a
00:39:10
human engineered origin so I want to
00:39:11
just make that clear that that is a
00:39:13
possibility I'm not dismissing it but
00:39:15
I'm not supporting the other side I'm
00:39:16
saying we have work to do to figure this
00:39:18
out just to be clear it's a possibility
00:39:20
that's so remote I mean look I I heard
00:39:23
Professor Jeffrey saaks talking about
00:39:24
this in a recent interview and he went
00:39:26
through the whole history he said
00:39:27
there's like 200 of these Corona viruses
00:39:30
in this like class or category and
00:39:33
there's not one fear and cage site among
00:39:34
any of them so can you say that there's
00:39:37
not a
00:39:38
one chance of it
00:39:41
happening question very very very low
00:39:44
probability event let me punch up your
00:39:45
question freeberg because if you if your
00:39:47
question is what should you do I want to
00:39:49
ask you guys what do you do so like
00:39:50
forget about oh there's bad guys Fouch
00:39:52
is a bad guy like what do you do to
00:39:53
protect the world against the next
00:39:55
pandemic number one you don't do this
00:39:58
type of gain of function research number
00:39:59
two if you are going to do it you don't
00:40:01
do it at a level two facility like the
00:40:04
Wuhan lab number three when the virus
00:40:07
leaks from the lab you don't basically
00:40:09
lie about and conduct a cover campaign
00:40:12
that smears reputation of honest
00:40:14
scientists number four when you're
00:40:16
hauled into the Oval Office in response
00:40:19
to this once in a century pandemic you
00:40:22
don't pretend like you're America's
00:40:24
doctor and you have all the answers when
00:40:26
in fact you're the guy who created this
00:40:28
problem you own it there's an idea you
00:40:31
own it and you know what like the
00:40:34
question really in embedded in in your
00:40:36
question freeberg I think is Is Gain Is
00:40:38
there any argument to doing gain of
00:40:40
function if so how and then is there any
00:40:43
reason to research you know the bat dung
00:40:46
or whatever material they get it from
00:40:48
you know from those caves and take it
00:40:49
out of the caves I could see the lad
00:40:52
Cham off of like hey this existed nature
00:40:54
you study it on an island somewhere far
00:40:56
away from everybody with massive
00:40:58
controls the gain of function seems like
00:41:01
it literally feels like the speech from
00:41:03
Jurassic Park like I think it's why
00:41:05
would listen Park took place on an
00:41:07
island for a reason there were many
00:41:09
scientists who were opposed to gain
00:41:10
function research they thought it was
00:41:12
unduly risky and didn't have offsetting
00:41:14
benefits and that is exactly why Obama
00:41:16
banned it very good decision to me this
00:41:19
whole idea that we need to to amplify
00:41:24
these viruses in order to find out what
00:41:26
would happen if this happened naturally
00:41:28
is insane you didn't have this dep until
00:41:31
you created it yes this is nutty this is
00:41:34
nut it's nuts go ahead there are
00:41:36
examples we know I'll just point to two
00:41:39
let's just say the attempted overthrow
00:41:41
of the Ukrainian government in
00:41:44
2014 you can go back to Iran Contra as
00:41:47
yet another example and you can add gain
00:41:49
of function research now which is again
00:41:52
I'll just go back to when there are
00:41:54
these lifelong bureaucrats that believe
00:41:57
they're above the law that there's this
00:41:59
Sensation that they can pull the levers
00:42:02
of power silently behind the scenes
00:42:05
because they know better and then what
00:42:07
they're doing as you guys said is they
00:42:10
are controverting the desires of the
00:42:13
people so whether you like President
00:42:15
Obama or not he's duly elected by the
00:42:18
people and when he says this isn't
00:42:19
allowed it shouldn't be allowed and when
00:42:22
you
00:42:23
instantiate chaos and wars and all of
00:42:26
this other stuff overthrows in all of
00:42:28
these other places that then create all
00:42:30
these longtail
00:42:31
effects they're not done with really
00:42:34
America support they're done by a small
00:42:36
group of people who think they know
00:42:38
better and I think that we've created
00:42:40
that kind of a problem that needs to get
00:42:42
fixed and so I think that there this has
00:42:46
to be an example where you can make them
00:42:48
an example because otherwise it will
00:42:50
keep happening and there are other parts
00:42:52
of the American bureaucracy where people
00:42:55
are in charge of very critical and
00:42:56
important decisions and I suspect 99% of
00:43:00
them are good Earnest honest people
00:43:03
doing the right thing for
00:43:04
America but it's just the law of large
00:43:07
numbers there will be one or two and all
00:43:09
it takes is one or two who get drunk
00:43:11
with that power and so unless that
00:43:13
there's a check and balance on that
00:43:15
Dynamic we'll have more issues of this
00:43:18
and as the world gets more sophisticated
00:43:21
and we rely more on Experts I hate to
00:43:24
say this guys but you have to be more
00:43:25
skeptical of experts
00:43:27
as much as you think an expert is an
00:43:29
expert you have to fight the tendency of
00:43:31
saying I'm going to abdicate all of my
00:43:33
intellect onto you and you decide yeah I
00:43:37
think you have to find a way of just gut
00:43:40
checking and Sack said this critical
00:43:41
thing if I was the president of the
00:43:43
United States in a pandemic I didn't
00:43:45
need the co to teach me this example but
00:43:49
if I'm trying to solve a very technical
00:43:51
and hard engineering problem what I
00:43:53
always do is I bring a cross-section of
00:43:55
people in a room
00:43:57
typically some of them have to have
00:44:00
disagreeing opinions and I make them
00:44:02
intellectually fight it out and my job
00:44:04
is to observe and in that I apply my
00:44:07
judgment I'm not nearly as smart as them
00:44:09
I'm not nearly technically as trained as
00:44:11
them but that is a process that works
00:44:13
and I'm just questioning it couldn't
00:44:15
have happened here because as sack said
00:44:17
if you basically bury the reputations of
00:44:20
the folks that are pushing back you
00:44:22
could never bring them inside the room
00:44:23
in the oval and have a conversation with
00:44:25
them and say hey Jay but Taria give us
00:44:28
the red team version of what you think
00:44:30
is happening yeah and that Steel Man the
00:44:34
opposite side let me build on a point
00:44:37
Jam made which is I think we have to ask
00:44:39
the question what type of government do
00:44:40
we really have you know we call
00:44:43
ourselves a democracy but are you a
00:44:45
democracy when the elected leaders come
00:44:48
and go and the really powerful
00:44:50
bureaucrats running the the government
00:44:51
running these agencies stay for decades
00:44:53
and decades and if the president
00:44:56
disagrees with their policy they can
00:44:57
just wait them out fouchy wanted to do
00:45:00
gain of function research maybe by the
00:45:02
way at the beest of DOD we don't know
00:45:04
could have been a bio weapon or biod
00:45:06
defense program there's a lot more to
00:45:08
this that we don't even know about yet
00:45:10
in any event it's clear he was
00:45:12
passionately committed to funding gain
00:45:14
of function research he just waited for
00:45:16
his opportunity and implemented his will
00:45:19
Victoria newand in the state department
00:45:21
passionately committed to basically
00:45:23
bringing Ukraine into NATO and using
00:45:26
that to essentially provoke a regime
00:45:29
change operation in Russia again she
00:45:32
just had to wait for her opportunity to
00:45:34
basically keep pushing these policies
00:45:36
for decades these are the people who are
00:45:38
really running the American government
00:45:40
how would you change it we have to turn
00:45:42
these things over these organizations or
00:45:43
get rid of them we talk about term
00:45:44
limits for politicians maybe we actually
00:45:46
need term limits for the administrative
00:45:49
appara that runs all these critical
00:45:51
organizations right it's called The Deep
00:45:52
state right you ever hear the expression
00:45:54
deep State sounds conspiratorial it's
00:45:56
not it's just the permanent bureaucracy
00:45:58
we elect a president but H but how many
00:46:01
people does the president actually
00:46:02
appoint a couple hundred you know
00:46:05
99.9% of the people running the
00:46:07
government are there permanently well
00:46:09
and then I'll just say here I want to
00:46:11
give a shout out to the journalist
00:46:12
Katherine Ian and Katherine Ian and
00:46:15
Emily cop I know that people also have
00:46:18
no faith in journalists these are two
00:46:19
journalists I think you could have
00:46:20
tremendous faith in who are going to win
00:46:22
piters because they've been doggedly
00:46:24
pursuing this and you have to wonder why
00:46:26
this is not the top story on the news
00:46:29
networks and why this isn't the head of
00:46:31
you know the New York Times or the The
00:46:33
Washington Post like there needs to be
00:46:34
much more coverage of what's going on
00:46:36
here I don't understand
00:46:38
why Trump takes every headline yeah I
00:46:41
don't think it has anything to do with
00:46:42
Trump I think it's got everything to do
00:46:43
with the fact that the New York Times
00:46:44
was covering for fouchy fouchy has been
00:46:47
there Fouch has been there for decades
00:46:49
he is a major source of the New York
00:46:51
Times just like he was a major funer of
00:46:53
Grant programs right so there's a lot of
00:46:56
people who have developed a dependency
00:46:59
on fouchy I mean every for information
00:47:01
you think access journalism is what's
00:47:02
going on here he gave them access
00:47:04
there's no question the New York Times
00:47:06
was covering for this the New York Times
00:47:08
definitely promoted the idea that anyone
00:47:10
pushing the lab leak theory was somehow
00:47:13
conspiracy theorist or a nut and you
00:47:15
have to lay on top of all this sacks
00:47:17
it's a political environment they were
00:47:19
pushing that whole crazy wet Market
00:47:21
Theory theet
00:47:22
Market pangin the pangin remember the
00:47:25
penglin we needed John Stewart to
00:47:28
dismantle the pangalan theory you know
00:47:30
in relation to that these wet markets
00:47:32
have spread massive viruses and and you
00:47:36
know all kinds of things and they do
00:47:38
need to be there was like a un report on
00:47:41
like hey we have to
00:47:42
upgrade markets I it was a great cover
00:47:45
story I think it was a logical Theory to
00:47:47
pursue to the end point of eliminating
00:47:50
it because they around Wuhan there are a
00:47:52
lot of these wet markets it is
00:47:54
completely conceivable that a person who
00:47:57
was in that lab went to a wet market and
00:47:59
it spread via the wet Market this is why
00:48:01
we need a full investigation folks
00:48:03
because all these theories could come
00:48:04
together and there are more cards to
00:48:06
turn over which one of you alluded to
00:48:08
like who knows what the the turn and the
00:48:10
river are going to be here like what did
00:48:12
China know what did our government and
00:48:14
China know maybe they are making
00:48:16
bioweapons maybe they're doing even
00:48:18
worse stuff that we don't know about
00:48:20
maybe there's all kinds of Rogue
00:48:22
programs that are being that are
00:48:23
occurring here that's why we need to
00:48:25
keep digging and digging the American
00:48:26
public must hold these people
00:48:29
accountable and they need to tell us who
00:48:32
else was involved because if Fouch is
00:48:34
involved and this guy's involved there's
00:48:35
other people I want to hear from
00:48:37
everybody there's many crazy parts of
00:48:39
this but I think maybe the craziest part
00:48:40
of the whole thing is that when the
00:48:42
pandemic happens and the elected
00:48:45
government of the United States the
00:48:47
president needs to pull in the resources
00:48:49
to manage a policy response who do they
00:48:51
pull in fouchy the guy who created the
00:48:53
problem it's kind of like when they have
00:48:56
newand be Chief Diplomat in the state
00:48:58
department and she's fed the coup in Kev
00:49:00
in
00:49:01
2014 it's again these these bureaucrats
00:49:04
are doing the exact opposite of what
00:49:06
they're supposed to be doing they're own
00:49:09
and being honest yes but I think to
00:49:11
answer your question what do we do about
00:49:12
it I think we just got to clean out the
00:49:14
Stables here yeah I think we just got to
00:49:16
disband some of these government
00:49:17
departments why do we have so many this
00:49:19
whole alphabet soup of three-letter
00:49:20
agencies I think V Grandma Swami had the
00:49:23
right idea let's just get rid of a bunch
00:49:25
of these things start budget zero based
00:49:27
budget the whole government start over Y
00:49:29
and just go right through each one like
00:49:31
if and and you know what it should be a
00:49:32
bipartisan issue but there's so much
00:49:34
money involved this is one of the
00:49:35
challenges in a capitalist system is
00:49:37
there's so much money there's so much
00:49:38
Griff to go around that when something
00:49:40
like this happens and there's an
00:49:42
opportunity to I don't know make a
00:49:44
vaccine and and you know put a couple of
00:49:47
billion dollars into this light speeded
00:49:49
thing which was a great idea
00:49:50
seemingly everybody lines up okay yeah
00:49:52
sure we'll get involved we'll take some
00:49:54
of that money yeah buy a billion shots
00:49:56
from us president Trump was really on to
00:49:57
this because he's the one that really
00:49:59
coined the term the Deep State and went
00:50:01
after it and if you think about the
00:50:02
other side right the people that are
00:50:05
there it must be very discomforting to
00:50:07
hear because a lot of those people are
00:50:10
folks that worked hard tried to go to
00:50:12
good schools get educated and join an
00:50:16
infrastructure to move a country forward
00:50:18
because they believe in the country and
00:50:19
the values s noble noble mission right
00:50:22
but over long periods of time most
00:50:26
people come and go and then there's a
00:50:27
small cohort of folks that sort of end
00:50:29
up aify and running the top parts of
00:50:32
this permanent bureaucracy and I think
00:50:35
saaks is right they start to observe
00:50:38
just the simple principle that all these
00:50:40
folks come and go yet I'm still around
00:50:42
president comes president goes under
00:50:45
secretary comes under secretary goes the
00:50:47
Secretary of this comes then they they
00:50:49
go and so they start to believe that
00:50:51
they're really in charge and that's
00:50:53
where the Deep State idea comes from at
00:50:56
least we're in a democracy where these
00:50:59
hearings are occurring I just want to
00:51:00
give kudos to in addition to those two
00:51:03
journalists to the people on this
00:51:04
subcommittee who are doing it in a
00:51:06
bipartisan way and they will be and
00:51:09
they're being relentless I think that's
00:51:11
the honorable thing to do I encourage
00:51:13
them and those investigative journalists
00:51:14
to be relentless and kud Paul too
00:51:17
remember when
00:51:19
heile encourage people were like this
00:51:21
guy's a loon no R to your point about
00:51:24
what does this mean for our democracy I
00:51:26
want bring up the semaphor article where
00:51:28
they pulled young people and young
00:51:31
voters they despair over us politics
00:51:33
they describe the United States as a
00:51:35
dying Empire led by bad people I mean
00:51:38
now after what we've leared about Co and
00:51:40
I would argue also the whole background
00:51:43
to war is this right exactly their
00:51:47
intuition is their intuition is right
00:51:49
yeah from the mouths of babes I mean bad
00:51:51
is I mean if they covered this up in the
00:51:54
way it's looking like I would call this
00:51:56
Behavior I'd call it evil because it was
00:51:58
premeditated and then look the point is
00:52:00
we're supposed to have this check and
00:52:02
balance from the media but when the
00:52:04
media is complicit because they like to
00:52:05
be in those Halls of power that's where
00:52:08
that's where these feelings come from I
00:52:09
think the latest stat that I saw is I
00:52:11
think more than 52% of Americans now
00:52:14
believe that the mainstream media is
00:52:16
untrustworthy and that's a really
00:52:18
terrible place to be which means you're
00:52:20
basically where do you get truth you're
00:52:22
consuming something that's just
00:52:23
fundamentally not true I mean burn it
00:52:24
down I mean that that's the conclusion
00:52:26
any logical person would come to is just
00:52:28
burn it down this makes no sense that
00:52:30
they would try and cover this up the
00:52:31
right thing for fou to do is say Hey
00:52:33
listen we didn't do gain of function you
00:52:36
know under Obama we did do it here it's
00:52:40
obviously been a mistake we need to
00:52:41
never do it again and here's the road
00:52:43
map to make sure that we protect people
00:52:45
from the next one thank God this one
00:52:46
didn't kill children the way it's
00:52:48
killing old people and uh by the way
00:52:50
this is going to crack open I encourage
00:52:51
you all to be vocal about this and to
00:52:53
watch on Monday because Dr fouchi is
00:52:56
scheduled to appear in a hearing for the
00:52:58
same sub commmittee and that is going to
00:53:00
be explosive live streamed on YouTube
00:53:02
we'll put the link in the show notes
00:53:04
since we're in the don't trust anybody
00:53:07
and have your own sovereignty and we're
00:53:09
in libertarian moment let's go to our
00:53:11
crypto correspondent it's crypto corner
00:53:14
with
00:53:16
shamama so it's my it's part of my
00:53:19
production company I'm now doing crypto
00:53:20
corner with cha that would be next
00:53:22
week's cold open I thought it would be
00:53:23
good to talk about crypto for a couple
00:53:26
of reasons
00:53:28
one is because we just had the having at
00:53:30
the end of April when that happen the
00:53:33
having is where just for folks that
00:53:35
don't know the way that Bitcoins are
00:53:36
created is by solving these complex
00:53:38
mathematical algorithms that take a lot
00:53:40
of time and energy and and money and
00:53:42
when you solve it you get
00:53:44
rewarded with some number of Bitcoin and
00:53:47
roughly every four years that reward
00:53:50
gets cut in half it's called a having
00:53:54
and this week I saw somebody who
00:53:58
reminded me all of this and I just want
00:53:59
to give this guy a proper shout out so
00:54:01
his name is Wes kasaris and Wes in
00:54:04
Silicon Valley I would say really was
00:54:06
Agent Zero of Bitcoin he was the one in
00:54:09
2010 that introduced it to me I remember
00:54:12
he reminded me of the story actually we
00:54:13
were at orens hummus and he's like he's
00:54:16
Argentinian he's a great so I'm gonna
00:54:18
try to copy he's like you not to buy the
00:54:20
beatcoin so I heard the story I fell in
00:54:23
love with it I remember I called my
00:54:25
family office I'm like buy me a million
00:54:26
these things and he was like or a
00:54:27
million dollars worth and he was like
00:54:30
are you crazy and I was like no this
00:54:31
just a little appetizer we'll get to the
00:54:34
main main course anyways he has done a
00:54:36
phenomenal job of understanding and
00:54:38
prosti
00:54:40
Bitcoin and I want to thank him because
00:54:42
he really put me onto this but he
00:54:44
mentioned something to me when I saw him
00:54:46
a couple days ago which is you should
00:54:47
really look at the pattern of Bitcoin
00:54:51
after a having and so I was really
00:54:54
curious and so I had a guy in my team
00:54:56
Quinton put this together so Nick let me
00:54:58
just let's go to the first page so why
00:55:01
is this interesting so here's a little
00:55:02
bitcoin price analysis for you guys so
00:55:05
there's been a couple of having cycles
00:55:07
that have happened and I asked him to go
00:55:10
back and look at the price performance
00:55:12
one month after a having three months 6
00:55:15
months 9 months 12 months and 18 months
00:55:17
after a having and what you notice is
00:55:21
that there are these moments initially
00:55:25
where essentially when you go through a
00:55:27
Bitcoin having people are sort of
00:55:29
reassessing what's happening and they're
00:55:32
trying to figure it out that's sort of
00:55:33
what I would says happens in the first
00:55:35
month and roughly what also happens in
00:55:37
the first three
00:55:38
months but then within 6 months to a
00:55:41
year and 18 months of these things there
00:55:43
are these crazy price appreciation
00:55:46
cycles that happen so that's what this
00:55:49
page shows which is you know 18 months
00:55:52
after the first
00:55:54
having the Bitcoin price returned
00:55:57
45x after the second having it returned
00:56:00
almost 28x and after this third having
00:56:04
it returned almost an 8ex which is
00:56:08
really incredible returns in such a
00:56:09
short period of time if you go to the
00:56:10
next page and so if you if you graph
00:56:12
that this is what it starts to show
00:56:14
which is what is this price performance
00:56:16
after each of these having Cycles now
00:56:18
why is that interesting well it's
00:56:19
interesting because on top of this
00:56:22
having which theoretically if history
00:56:27
is a guide we should see some price
00:56:30
appreciation obviously the other thing
00:56:31
that's happened is we've commercialized
00:56:33
Bitcoin and we talked about this sort of
00:56:35
as my big prediction for
00:56:37
2024 which is these ETFs are really
00:56:40
going to allow Bitcoin to cross the
00:56:41
chasm and have its sort of Central Key
00:56:44
moment right and so if you apply the
00:56:47
averages and again these are just
00:56:48
averages they're by no means predictions
00:56:51
okay so I just want to qualify that
00:56:52
these are just this is not Financial
00:56:53
advice this not Financial advice these
00:56:55
are just guesses
00:56:57
we took these and we applied it to the
00:56:59
price of Bitcoin and if you go to the
00:57:00
next page you start to see what could
00:57:04
happen if you just take the average of
00:57:06
the last few Cycles so because the first
00:57:08
cycle was so extreme and you start to oh
00:57:11
so you're just doing cycle two and three
00:57:13
here to be clear just the averages of
00:57:14
cycle two and three and what you start
00:57:16
to see is some really meaningful
00:57:19
appreciation and when I talked to Wes
00:57:23
about this how he explained it which I
00:57:25
which makes a lot of sense to me is
00:57:27
there are a lot of
00:57:28
countries that will never look at
00:57:31
Bitcoin credibly even if they support it
00:57:33
the US may be one of those but there's
00:57:35
an increasing body of countries that
00:57:37
will become dual
00:57:39
currency and they will look at their
00:57:41
local currency and then they will look
00:57:43
at Bitcoin and they will say both of
00:57:45
these two things are needed one when
00:57:47
you're transacting on a daily basis for
00:57:49
random goods and services and two when
00:57:52
you need to buy a permanent asset that
00:57:54
needs to have residual value you'll use
00:57:56
something like BTC and I think that's a
00:57:58
very powerful concept and if you look at
00:58:02
what this price chart could
00:58:05
indicate is that if this thing starts to
00:58:08
get to these levels of appreciation it
00:58:10
is going to completely replace gold and
00:58:13
start to
00:58:14
become something that has transactional
00:58:17
utility for hard assets and I think if
00:58:19
you marry that with this worry that some
00:58:21
folks have about dollar
00:58:23
debasement you start to see some really
00:58:26
interesting opportun so I just thought
00:58:27
that this was a interesting thing that
00:58:30
he that he here's our disclaimer
00:58:32
interesting thing that he put me on I
00:58:33
thought I'd share that with you I'll
00:58:34
publish this on Twitter but that's your
00:58:36
crypto corner for the year folks I think
00:58:38
it's really interesting how the crypto
00:58:40
Community is getting organized into a
00:58:43
basically a Lobby to advocate for its
00:58:46
interest because theyve the biggest
00:58:47
Lobby in America did you know that yeah
00:58:48
they've been so targeted over the last
00:58:50
few years
00:58:51
because gendler and Warren have been on
00:58:54
a crusade to BAS ly make crypto illegal
00:58:57
or drive it offshore well every action
00:59:00
has a equal and opposite reaction and
00:59:02
now the crypto people have basically had
00:59:04
a political Awakening and realized they
00:59:06
have to get involved in the political
00:59:07
system yeah just as a matter of Defense
00:59:10
self-defense shout
00:59:12
outf a
00:59:14
Pioneer well not like that I mean that
00:59:16
guy I mean he was dropping money on
00:59:18
everybody yeah you hear this did you
00:59:20
hear this rumor that he was doing that
00:59:22
to basically push for regulatory capture
00:59:24
remember yeah
00:59:28
did you guys hear this rumor did you
00:59:29
guys hear this rumor thatf was going to
00:59:31
put a billion dollars into the election
00:59:33
and convinced Tom Brady to run as a
00:59:35
Republican and give no give the billion
00:59:37
to Trump oh sorry give the billion to
00:59:39
Trump he was gonna give Trump a billion
00:59:41
to not run okay and then get Tom Brady
00:59:44
to run I mean this person had delusions
00:59:46
of grounder he thought he was a Jedi
00:59:47
Knight and he's like literally in joba's
00:59:50
Palace right now I don't know what this
00:59:51
I mean what a lunatic he was I mean talk
00:59:54
about delusions of grandeur sacks this
00:59:56
guy thought he would just drop a billion
00:59:58
dollars and convince somebody not to run
01:00:00
for government I think we're gonna I
01:00:02
think we're going to get a regulatory
01:00:04
you know back to the young people we
01:00:05
talked about in the previous story I
01:00:07
think the reason they're attracted to
01:00:09
crypto is because it doesn't have
01:00:11
government control and since if you
01:00:12
don't trust the government and you see
01:00:14
the government over and over and over
01:00:16
again cover things up or the grift or
01:00:18
make decisions that are not in your
01:00:20
generation's best interest why wouldn't
01:00:22
you opt out of their financial system
01:00:24
and you know what there's a lot of them
01:00:26
and they have they're getting organized
01:00:27
to your point ax I think we're going to
01:00:29
have a crypto framework and it's worth
01:00:33
probably five points in this election
01:00:35
what do you think sax how many points is
01:00:37
being the pro crypto candidate worth in
01:00:39
this election one two three points of
01:00:41
votes Four Points it's got to
01:00:43
be if young people show up it'll be
01:00:46
it'll be it could be 500 basis points I
01:00:48
mean young people do not show up to vote
01:00:50
because there isn't an issue that they
01:00:51
care about correct but there's 50
01:00:53
million Americans that own crypto 505 Z
01:00:57
okay so if 10% of them are like let's
01:00:59
say that's their single issue that's 5
01:01:01
million votes no no no there's a there
01:01:04
is a plausible case where 40 million of
01:01:06
those folks show up because you're
01:01:08
talking about a structural part of their
01:01:10
wealth creation right so for example
01:01:12
like you know Biden President Biden
01:01:14
talked about giving people a head start
01:01:16
by eliminating their debt that's a
01:01:18
narrow issue and the reason it's a
01:01:20
narrow issue there's just as many people
01:01:21
that don't have debt and just as many
01:01:23
people that paid off their debt and it
01:01:24
creates a lot ofes have knots right and
01:01:28
there's all these rules around who will
01:01:30
get the debt relief Etc you end up
01:01:31
touching four or five million people
01:01:35
maximum but if there are 50 million
01:01:37
people who have now decided to have at
01:01:39
least a hedge
01:01:41
Against The Establishment and the
01:01:44
traditional Financial
01:01:46
system and you are threatening to take
01:01:48
that wealth away yeah I could see how
01:01:51
80% of those folks show up to The Ballot
01:01:53
Box and say all right which one of you
01:01:54
will just leave me alone and if the
01:01:56
answer is President Trump then they're
01:01:57
all going to vote for president Trump I
01:01:59
think this is like such a great issue
01:02:01
for uh political candidates to embrace
01:02:04
and it's just such a simple framework
01:02:05
I've said it a dozen times create a
01:02:08
sophisticated investor test let a
01:02:10
thousand flowers bloom people can make
01:02:12
whatever crypto projects they want but
01:02:13
to buy it you just have to take a simple
01:02:16
test like a driver's license so that you
01:02:19
don't risk your entire net worth or
01:02:21
whatever if you do you're an informed
01:02:22
buyer of crypto just make a
01:02:24
sophisticated investor test let's move
01:02:26
on chamath just since we're in crypto
01:02:28
Corner before we leave crypto Corner
01:02:29
when is my ape going to be worth money
01:02:31
again when will my ape go back up never
01:02:34
okay so my ap's not coming back okay so
01:02:36
I guess I shouldn't have done
01:02:38
that all right wait how how's uh sax
01:02:41
coin doing we had sax coin and we had um
01:02:44
my coin went crazy but that was a pump
01:02:46
and dub scheme that we had nothing to do
01:02:48
with I will never sell you a coin until
01:02:51
I do I just want to let everybody know
01:02:52
that if you get a DM from me I am not
01:02:55
selling J coin until you hear it first I
01:02:59
would literally do an Angel Investing
01:03:01
coin immediately if there was a
01:03:03
framework for it it would be the
01:03:05
greatest idea ever to have like a jco
01:03:07
and I could just like put it into
01:03:08
startups and then people could buy and
01:03:09
sell it and be like this ongoing
01:03:11
Evergreen Venture where's my J
01:03:14
da I love Dows and I love I love the
01:03:17
idea of of an Angel Investing coin but
01:03:19
man a startup coin would be brilliant
01:03:22
yeah the Jason coin is basically at zero
01:03:24
it man it it was worth the the sax coin
01:03:27
is down to8 Grand to clear I didn't have
01:03:30
anything to do with sax coin either but
01:03:31
I was more amused by it than anything
01:03:32
else yeah well my friend decided to tell
01:03:35
everybody he was gonna buy some and then
01:03:38
straight to the
01:03:41
Moon pretty funny h i it's hilarious I
01:03:44
have some uh I've only we've only bought
01:03:48
crypto twice we have some Doge uh which
01:03:50
I bought during like the our our Doge
01:03:53
phase a couple years ago and then uh my
01:03:56
wife precedently bought Bitcoin you know
01:03:59
at a very low price when everybody was
01:04:00
talking about it around Thanksgiving and
01:04:03
uh my my hard Bitcoin went phenomenal
01:04:06
and my doge is at break even now so I've
01:04:09
spent two years just on the pendulum but
01:04:12
who knows maybe Doge will become a thing
01:04:13
again I love Doge all right we have a
01:04:16
bell weather of sorts here Salesforce
01:04:18
dropped more than 20% after reporting
01:04:20
earnings we should talk about the state
01:04:22
of SAS software as a service if you're
01:04:24
not in the industry Salesforce had its
01:04:26
worst day in the markets in nearly 20
01:04:29
years on Thursday and that's when we
01:04:31
tape this they lost about $40 billion in
01:04:33
market cap or as we say in the industry
01:04:35
to figmas on Wednesday Salesforce missed
01:04:37
q1 Revenue estimates for the first time
01:04:39
since 2006 Revenue was up 9.1 billion
01:04:43
11% year-over year but about 40 million
01:04:45
below Wall Street expectations so
01:04:47
they're doing great but Wall Street is
01:04:50
concerned for a reason we'll get into
01:04:52
what that is net income was 1.5 billion
01:04:55
7X year over year because they've been
01:04:56
doing a lot of cuts over there free cash
01:04:58
flow 6 billion up 43% profits are up
01:05:02
huge because if you remember those
01:05:03
activist investors came in and uh had
01:05:05
Benny off really rank the structure of
01:05:08
the business uh and the footprint of the
01:05:10
business but guidance for Q2 down
01:05:13
Salesforce projecting 7% growth
01:05:16
relatively low for them freeberg you and
01:05:18
I were talking about this like what are
01:05:20
your thoughts here
01:05:22
on what's happening in the markets and
01:05:25
then we we had the side discussion which
01:05:27
we didn't dock it but I think it's worth
01:05:29
bringing up here in dovetailing which is
01:05:31
it does seem like the consumer which
01:05:33
this is an Enterprise St but the economy
01:05:36
is cooling off consumers I think are
01:05:38
running out of money the YOLO economy is
01:05:41
finally I think at its end what does
01:05:45
this say to you freeberg well I think
01:05:47
the key question to your point is there
01:05:49
a macroeconomic reason for a Slowdown in
01:05:52
their business they're
01:05:53
forecasting for this next fiscal year
01:05:57
Revenue growth of only 8 to
01:05:59
%. and for this next quarter it's
01:06:01
basically a flat Revenue quarter
01:06:03
relative to the Past quarter so for this
01:06:06
fiscal year 38 billion of Topline
01:06:08
Revenue 9 billion of operating cash flow
01:06:12
and with the market cap coming down by
01:06:14
20% the Stock's at a $200 billion
01:06:16
valuation so it's trading at you know
01:06:18
call it roughly 20 times their operating
01:06:21
cash flow forecast with sub 10% Revenue
01:06:24
growth and that's basically where
01:06:25
treasuries trade right because treasury
01:06:27
yields for 30-year treasury you can get
01:06:30
4.7% today yeah I was about to say
01:06:32
almost five you know that's about 20x
01:06:34
right so that's about where the multiple
01:06:36
is on this Salesforce stock so I think
01:06:38
it really begs the question on you know
01:06:40
is there a macroeconomic force where the
01:06:41
Enterprise is spending less because of
01:06:45
you know a revenue slowdown in the
01:06:47
economy which we saw in the latest GDP
01:06:49
report that's number one that could be
01:06:51
driving this and will affect ultimately
01:06:53
the multiple for all these Enterprise
01:06:54
SAS companies
01:06:56
or number two is there a shifting
01:06:57
underway in the SAS business model that
01:07:00
the premium that SAS companies were able
01:07:02
to charge in the pricing model on a per
01:07:03
se basis and the dollars that they're
01:07:05
able to charge per employee or per user
01:07:08
um is so significant relative to what
01:07:11
that Enterprise can build themselves now
01:07:14
with the commoditization available to
01:07:17
them under this new era of AI and the
01:07:19
ability to build tools internally or the
01:07:21
ability for competitors to emerge with
01:07:24
significantly underpriced alternative
01:07:25
Alives because they can use generative
01:07:27
AI to make software that can
01:07:29
compete and then there's this other
01:07:31
question because Salesforce has been
01:07:33
leaning in heavily on the generative AI
01:07:35
capabilities that they're offering their
01:07:38
customers and it seems like the question
01:07:40
is are Enterprises waiting to see the
01:07:43
value of that generative AI service
01:07:45
capability is it worth paying for today
01:07:47
should I wait and see or is it actually
01:07:49
indicating that there's a big
01:07:50
commoditization and generative AI
01:07:51
underway okay meaning why do I have to
01:07:53
pay Salesforce a bunch of money when I
01:07:55
can use some open source third party
01:07:57
tool or some more freely available tool
01:07:58
so chamath freberg presented two options
01:08:01
here one of them macroeconomic slowdown
01:08:03
the other one hey software you know belt
01:08:06
tightening is happening inside the
01:08:08
Enterprise and it's cheaper to make so
01:08:09
maybe we have a a deflationary kind of
01:08:12
situation inside companies I I guess
01:08:14
this is adjacent that last part of his
01:08:16
theory uh is adjacent to the 8090
01:08:19
Mission you're on with your new startup
01:08:21
and maybe this is this an or or an end
01:08:23
in your mind shath is it both these
01:08:25
things but sorry before you answer the
01:08:27
third point I made was that generative
01:08:28
AI might yes and the third point it may
01:08:31
not be a product line it may not be
01:08:32
enough to charge for given all the open
01:08:34
source tools yes and there's a big
01:08:35
question mark about the AI new software
01:08:38
will people pay for it so jamat take
01:08:39
those three what are your thought I
01:08:41
think that if you look at what happened
01:08:44
before we
01:08:47
had a cycle where very large monolithic
01:08:50
software was replaced by these SAS
01:08:53
vendors and Salesforce LED that charge
01:08:55
and they they led the in many ways the
01:08:57
definition of the cloud so that was
01:08:59
amazing that was this one big
01:09:01
cycle and before that that monolithic
01:09:04
those monolithic software vendors were
01:09:06
replacing like main frames and very
01:09:08
archaic stuff this is sort of this third
01:09:12
disruptive cycle we're going to go
01:09:14
through a process of ripping and
01:09:16
replacing these Legacy products and so
01:09:20
gen is just a an enablement layer that
01:09:23
allows you to deliver functionality to
01:09:26
people and I think what you're going to
01:09:28
find is that it allows you to deliver
01:09:30
that functionality at much much cheaper
01:09:31
to your point that's the whole point of
01:09:33
890 we you know we always joke is
01:09:35
Salesforce going to get 8090 yeah
01:09:37
because you can deliver 80% of the
01:09:40
features at a 90% discount pretty easily
01:09:42
today and what you can't deliver today
01:09:45
will get much much easier in a year and
01:09:47
two years and three years for sure in 10
01:09:50
years so I think what the market is
01:09:54
voting with their dollars is that these
01:09:57
large lumpy monolithic software
01:09:59
companies that need big
01:10:02
50100 million
01:10:05
customers they're not going to find them
01:10:07
soon because those customers will
01:10:08
realize that you could get you know what
01:10:10
freeberg said what you need for 10
01:10:12
million or 5 million or 1 million or
01:10:16
500,000 and in some cases free and so
01:10:19
the cost structure of your organization
01:10:21
makes no sense and so you're going to
01:10:24
have to go through this very complicated
01:10:25
cycle of recycling you know the business
01:10:28
model which unfortunately will mean tons
01:10:30
of layoffs and that's not a today thing
01:10:32
but over these next five and 10 years
01:10:35
that's probably what's going to happen
01:10:36
and it doesn't mean Salesforce is a Bad
01:10:38
Company it's just that it is on the
01:10:40
wrong side of the life cycle and the
01:10:44
odds are overwhelmingly such that a
01:10:46
bunch of small companies will flood this
01:10:49
opportunity and provides cheaper smaller
01:10:52
more flexible capabilities saxs
01:10:54
obviously you made bones in the SAS
01:10:56
business over the last two decades at
01:10:58
least what are your thoughts here on the
01:11:00
challenges I just interviewed Owen mccab
01:11:04
from intercom and he says he thinks the
01:11:06
seat model is going to change and
01:11:07
obviously if there's less people at
01:11:09
companies there's less seats and that
01:11:12
may be a headwin that you just can't win
01:11:14
against so maybe a consumption model has
01:11:15
to happen or a different pricing model
01:11:17
but what are your thoughts on what's
01:11:18
happening at Salesforce and then open
01:11:21
the aperture there and tell us what you
01:11:22
think's going to happen in terms of how
01:11:24
Corporation
01:11:26
either decide to make that you know
01:11:28
build or buy
01:11:30
decision well I think it's pretty
01:11:32
amazing that Salesforce lost something
01:11:34
like 40 billion of market cap because of
01:11:37
a revenue Miss of 40 million you know
01:11:39
it's amazing how these relatively small
01:11:42
in percentage terms misses in Revenue
01:11:46
earnings Drive such huge changes in in
01:11:48
market cap that's quite a ripple isn't
01:11:49
it yeah I mean look my view is that I
01:11:54
don't have a strong View about the stock
01:11:56
but my sense is it probably a buying
01:11:58
opportunity I mean I think Salesforce is
01:12:00
still a great company Mark benof is a
01:12:01
great CEO he's always positioned the
01:12:04
company to chase after whatever the
01:12:07
current thing is so obviously he was one
01:12:10
of the first to realized that software
01:12:14
was headed to the cloud evangelized for
01:12:16
the cloud then when the social
01:12:19
networking Revolution happened he
01:12:21
launched chatter which was a competitor
01:12:22
to to my product gamer back then but he
01:12:25
was ahead of the curve on on social in
01:12:26
the Enterprise then it was big data and
01:12:29
they launched Einstein now they've got
01:12:31
Ai and they're going to be doing a bunch
01:12:33
of different things there so my guess is
01:12:36
he's going to figure out how to take
01:12:38
advantage of this this AI trend for the
01:12:40
company they're not going to miss it
01:12:42
they're not going to get caught totally
01:12:44
flat-footed so you look I don't have a a
01:12:47
super strong point of view on it as an
01:12:50
investment
01:12:52
but open the aperture there with the
01:12:56
pricing and how many people will work at
01:12:58
these companies and then if the PED
01:12:59
model is the model and then people are
01:13:01
going to have less humans working at
01:13:03
companies and do more with less how what
01:13:05
does that mean for SAS RIT large I'm
01:13:07
honestly not worried about the per model
01:13:09
I mean the point of a pricing plan
01:13:11
should be to
01:13:14
align Revenue expansion with Roi meaning
01:13:18
the more value that a customer gets from
01:13:20
your product the more they're willing to
01:13:22
pay and you just need some proxy for
01:13:24
measuring that that seats are a good
01:13:27
proxy it's a good way to measure how
01:13:29
much value the customer is getting out
01:13:30
of your product because the more seats
01:13:31
they're buying the more value they must
01:13:33
be getting yes you could do it some
01:13:35
other way you could basically
01:13:37
meter data usage you could meter API
01:13:40
usage sure those models will work for
01:13:43
other kinds of companies but I don't
01:13:45
think there's going to be a huge
01:13:46
disruption to the seat model is my
01:13:48
sense look I think the bigger issue here
01:13:52
is that their forecast was soft right
01:13:54
they are forecasting what sub 10%
01:13:58
Revenue growth they're going to and this
01:14:00
is why the stock got punished and I'm
01:14:03
seeing that a bunch of SAS companies are
01:14:05
kind of hurting today now in the wake of
01:14:07
this they're down like 5% not 20 but so
01:14:11
I wonder if what the market is wondering
01:14:14
is whether there's a more General
01:14:16
slowdown that we're on the precipice of
01:14:19
I don't think that that explains 40 20%
01:14:21
drop in a day I think typically these
01:14:24
public Market investors internalize a
01:14:27
bunch of fears and they don't execute on
01:14:31
those fears and then when given an
01:14:32
opportunity they just barf it all out
01:14:35
because it's like now it's acceptable
01:14:37
and so to your point David like it was
01:14:39
such like a an insignificant Revenue
01:14:42
Miss so as to not even be important
01:14:44
quite honestly but the reason it's down
01:14:46
20% is I think folks have internalized a
01:14:48
different set of risks and then they
01:14:51
found an escape hatch where they have
01:14:52
plausible deniability for selling that's
01:14:54
just what a lot of Public Market
01:14:55
investors too I don't think it's a
01:14:57
coincidence that we just had the GDP
01:14:59
forecast revised down for the latest
01:15:02
quarter what was it it's down to like
01:15:04
1.4% one something yeah yeah we talked
01:15:06
about this last week because it's this
01:15:08
number is fake number the economy is
01:15:09
looking pretty soft right now which is I
01:15:13
guess a good jumping off point uh which
01:15:15
is do what do we think is happening here
01:15:18
with the economy and then interest rates
01:15:20
because the whole goal here was to get
01:15:22
us under you know get us close to 2% get
01:15:24
rid of the three handle at least in
01:15:26
terms of Interest going up and maybe get
01:15:29
the consumers to not be spending so much
01:15:32
money which is crazy to think about or
01:15:33
maybe get more people laid off and have
01:15:35
the unemployment not so low remember
01:15:37
when everyone was talking about soft
01:15:38
Landing yeah the reason why they were
01:15:40
having that conversation is because the
01:15:42
FED jacked up interest rates really
01:15:44
suddenly from roughly zero to five five
01:15:46
and a half percent and it worked that
01:15:48
has an impact on people's consumption
01:15:51
because debt is much more expensive so
01:15:53
again it's wor buy a house harder to buy
01:15:56
a car anything you need to finance gets
01:15:58
much harder it took a long time for this
01:16:00
to work its way through the economy but
01:16:02
I think we're finally seeing it now I
01:16:03
think we're I think that's exactly right
01:16:05
I think we're here when you see that
01:16:06
three handle like does it go down you
01:16:08
know what's very interesting about the
01:16:09
2% Target I went down the rabbit hole to
01:16:11
try to figure out that 2% Target like I
01:16:14
was like who came up with 2% as a number
01:16:16
like why isn't it three or 2.5 or 1.5 or
01:16:18
one it's a guy in New Zealand who has
01:16:20
you know came up with what he thought
01:16:22
was a good Target 2% the world adopted
01:16:23
it so going back to our conversation
01:16:26
about experts yeah and he just freely
01:16:28
admits it he's just like yeah I just
01:16:30
thought 3% seemed like the right number
01:16:31
it wasn't too high wasn't too low and
01:16:33
it's kind of healthy to have things go
01:16:35
up in price because that means the
01:16:37
economy is growing it's it's just a
01:16:39
random Target 2% it was his gut
01:16:41
incredible incredible right incredible
01:16:44
yeah I mean if you look at this we are
01:16:47
at what is it
01:16:48
3.6% annualized CPI
01:16:52
inflation and 1 .3% annualized GDP
01:16:56
growth and a 4.7% 30-year treasury yield
01:17:01
this is I don't know what else is more
01:17:03
definitional of stagflation the economy
01:17:05
is not growing prices are going up and
01:17:07
the cost of borrow has gone through the
01:17:09
roof yeah some got to give and then also
01:17:12
if they keep raising taxes well it's
01:17:14
like their plans are then affluent
01:17:16
people are going to be trying to their
01:17:19
assets and who's they I'm just thinking
01:17:22
like a politician like if a politician
01:17:24
were to raise
01:17:26
dramtically I'm anybody I don't want I
01:17:28
don't want you to have Biden derangement
01:17:30
syndrome here Saks okay Trier it I don't
01:17:33
think Trump's gonna raise taxes but
01:17:34
Biden will he has the trifecta
01:17:37
absolutely absolutely that's why I'll
01:17:38
see you Thursday night with my $50,000
01:17:40
check I can't wait to be there yeah it's
01:17:42
gonna easily be paid for by my tax cut
01:17:45
just to jump back for a second on the
01:17:46
sales force point so you know Salesforce
01:17:49
faces these challenges but it's still
01:17:51
led by Mark Benny off absolutely that
01:17:53
dude's tremendous and if you look at the
01:17:56
performance of the average public
01:17:58
company regardless of the sector that
01:18:01
that business operates in that is run by
01:18:03
a hired CEO versus run by a Founder CEO
01:18:06
yeah the founder public companies that
01:18:08
have that have gone public achieved A10
01:18:11
billion market cap and are still founder
01:18:14
run as the CEO from there outperform
01:18:17
nearly any index you look at okay and
01:18:21
this is I think like a really key point
01:18:23
you could probably put together I think
01:18:24
some people have done this put together
01:18:25
a Founder portfolio but I wouldn't count
01:18:28
out Benny off just because of some of
01:18:31
the stuff that we talked about Founders
01:18:33
Founders Founders can and will maneuver
01:18:37
their way to success that is the hunger
01:18:39
of the Entre let our uh let's do our
01:18:40
draft the one Founders you should not
01:18:44
bet against which founder would you
01:18:46
least want to short chath your first in
01:18:49
the draft who do you got who would you
01:18:51
not want to bet
01:18:52
against worst person to bet against
01:18:56
sorry what do you mean like Founders any
01:18:58
entrepreneur in history we already know
01:19:00
what happened when people try to short
01:19:01
Elon they got incinerated barbecue sauce
01:19:04
okay you got you picked Elon in the
01:19:05
draft then that's number one jamat who
01:19:07
you got yeah that's easy I would pick
01:19:09
him too okay but who got pick somebody
01:19:11
out that's why it's a draft he already
01:19:12
took El you got take the next person it
01:19:14
could be anybody doesn't have to be
01:19:15
alive doesn't have to be in position
01:19:18
right
01:19:18
now who would I sorry what's what found
01:19:22
you least likely to Short an
01:19:24
entrepreneur you least want to
01:19:29
shorts hold on now freeberg you get to
01:19:31
go in the draft what do you got I I I
01:19:32
don't know the I mean all these founds I
01:19:34
don't know how to pick one I mean what
01:19:35
are you ask go with uh I'm gonna go with
01:19:38
uh I'm gonna go with Bill
01:19:42
Gates what
01:19:44
was no I said it could be any time
01:19:46
period of time yeah now that you know
01:19:48
the stock performance what are you
01:19:49
talking about I just think even in the
01:19:51
next com do
01:19:56
you're you're going to go out in a limb
01:19:57
you're going to go out a limb and say
01:20:00
that when Bill Gates was doing his
01:20:01
Legendary Run I wouldn't have shorted it
01:20:03
absolutely I also wouldn't short Michael
01:20:05
Jordan or LeBron James Steph Curry
01:20:08
definitely wouldn't get been against him
01:20:10
all right everybody breaking news today
01:20:12
in the law being fair I'm sorry today in
01:20:14
law fair depending on your view Trump
01:20:16
was found guilty on all 34 felony
01:20:19
charges you can choose your own framing
01:20:21
here some say it's election interference
01:20:23
uh some people are referring to to this
01:20:25
as the hush money porn star case other
01:20:27
people are calling it The Deep State
01:20:28
lawfare
01:20:29
case the jury deliberated for about a
01:20:32
day and a half trial lasted six weeks
01:20:35
included testimony from 20 Witnesses key
01:20:38
moment seems to have been Trump's CFO
01:20:40
wisberg who's I think in jail right now
01:20:42
for other charges um outlining the terms
01:20:45
of the payments to Michael Cohen the uh
01:20:49
disgraced lying attorney who recorded
01:20:51
Trump's conversations
01:20:55
and that's I think all I can tell you
01:20:58
about this except for maybe the
01:21:00
sentencing is uh coming up it's going to
01:21:03
be July 11th which is but four days
01:21:05
before the
01:21:07
RNC clearly a sad day for America I'm
01:21:11
not sure if anybody on the panel has any
01:21:12
opinions on the Trump verdict but let's
01:21:15
just randomly start with you David any
01:21:17
thoughts on Trump being convicted of 34
01:21:21
felonies in this case well first of all
01:21:24
in understanding this case I think it's
01:21:26
important to understand that both mer
01:21:28
Garland's doj and former Manhattan da
01:21:31
Cyrus fans they looked at this case they
01:21:33
looked at these charges and they passed
01:21:35
on bringing this case Alvin Bragg who
01:21:38
was a Soros funded da he want a hotly
01:21:41
contested Race To Succeed Vance by
01:21:43
pledging to get Trump and that's why he
01:21:46
brought this case and in order to bring
01:21:49
these charges he had to use a creative
01:21:51
legal formula that turned a misdemeanor
01:21:53
charge of falsifying business records a
01:21:56
charge that would have been passed the
01:21:57
statute limitations into a felony by
01:22:00
claiming it was in the service of a
01:22:02
second crime but he never named exactly
01:22:05
what that crime was or proved that it
01:22:07
happened and I think it's safe to say
01:22:09
that a case like this which is novel and
01:22:11
creative and torturous would never been
01:22:15
brought against anybody but Trump now
01:22:18
there's about five different grounds for
01:22:19
appeal on this number one the judge is a
01:22:22
Biden donor with a daughter who works
01:22:23
for Biden number two prejudicial and
01:22:27
relevant evidence was admitted that
01:22:28
should have been excluded including
01:22:29
stormmy Daniel's testimony number three
01:22:32
Trump was not able to call his expert in
01:22:34
election law former head of FEC Bradley
01:22:37
Smith number four the prosecution never
01:22:40
named the second crime and then number
01:22:43
five the judge let the jury pick from a
01:22:44
range of options for what the second
01:22:46
crime might be including tax crimes for
01:22:49
which no evidence was presented and
01:22:51
federal election crimes for which the
01:22:52
court had no jurisdiction so my guess is
01:22:55
that at the end of the day this case is
01:22:57
going to get tossed on appeal but that's
01:22:59
probably going to happen after the
01:23:00
election after November 5th and
01:23:02
Democrats now have what they wanted they
01:23:05
they wanted to get out of this case four
01:23:07
words Donald Trump convicted felon and
01:23:09
you're going to be hearing that phrase
01:23:11
convicted Fel and repeated ad nauseum
01:23:13
from now until November 5th and I think
01:23:15
that's the whole point of this case
01:23:17
freeberg your take no I mean it felt
01:23:20
like this was always a win-win trial for
01:23:22
Trump if he gets
01:23:25
convicted then you know the conversation
01:23:28
that we're hearing now you know this was
01:23:30
an unfair conviction how could they do
01:23:32
this this is
01:23:33
lawfare and if he doesn't get convicted
01:23:37
they try to burn him at the stake how
01:23:40
could they try and do that clearly he's
01:23:41
innocent he was made innocent so you
01:23:44
know it it it never really struck me as
01:23:46
being a smart I'm not a political guy
01:23:48
but the political calculus just seemed
01:23:49
off on this entirely it certainly wasn't
01:23:52
clear what they were trying to
01:23:53
accomplish either way Trump looks good
01:23:56
and I think we saw Tonight reports that
01:23:59
his website for making donations
01:24:02
crashed a lot of people started making
01:24:04
public statements on Twitter that are
01:24:06
not typically Republican donors that
01:24:08
they're donating a lot of money to
01:24:10
Donald Trump coming out of this and so
01:24:12
it is clearly infuriating a lot of
01:24:13
people that as saak points out you know
01:24:17
something that some people are
01:24:18
considering to be you know a bookkeeping
01:24:20
or accounting crime has turned into 34
01:24:22
felony convictions it feels Fair it
01:24:24
feels like the wrong
01:24:26
decision and it's going to infuriate
01:24:28
people because people worry about the
01:24:29
quality of the justice system anyone
01:24:31
who's sitting in the middle as an
01:24:32
independent or an undecided I think it
01:24:34
is much more likely that they are going
01:24:36
to have sympathy for Donald Trump coming
01:24:38
out of this not admonishment sh your
01:24:40
take I think that if you went into
01:24:43
this looking to confirm your hatred of
01:24:48
President Trump you you were the one
01:24:50
that was given red
01:24:52
meat and I think that if were undecided
01:24:55
or Pro president Trump you probably
01:24:58
found more reason to support him for all
01:25:01
the reasons that reeber said the thing
01:25:04
that's unique about this specific trial
01:25:08
that I found rather interesting was the
01:25:12
diversity of people who just couldn't
01:25:15
understand what this trial was about
01:25:17
whether it was Bill bar who worked for
01:25:19
him but was not a huge fan of his nor
01:25:22
was you know Trump
01:25:25
or vice versa right to an Allan
01:25:27
dershwitz to a Cyrus man you had
01:25:30
Democrats and Republicans and
01:25:33
independents legal Scholars legal
01:25:35
experts some who like President Trump
01:25:38
some who did not some who got along with
01:25:39
him some who did not some who fought
01:25:41
with him some who did not some who got
01:25:42
fired by him some who did not and they
01:25:46
were all categorically confused about
01:25:48
what this whole thing was about I'm not
01:25:51
legally well versed enough to understand
01:25:53
what it was so as a
01:25:55
Layman you then tend to go to this next
01:25:58
obvious thing which is you have to
01:26:01
bucket this decision as here are some
01:26:04
experts and what they know is better
01:26:06
than what I know and we talked about
01:26:09
this earlier on the PO today when it
01:26:10
came to fouchy and it turned out to not
01:26:12
be so true or you go to this other place
01:26:15
where are there systems of
01:26:18
government that can be convoluted and
01:26:20
turned in the favor of the majority
01:26:22
who's in power against someone that they
01:26:25
feel is a threat and we've talked about
01:26:27
that as well with respect to how some of
01:26:29
these governmental institutions have
01:26:31
targeted some of our
01:26:32
friends so I think that we're in a very
01:26:36
precarious moment
01:26:38
where the systems of governments in the
01:26:41
United States are a little bit more
01:26:43
fragile than they were the moment before
01:26:45
okay if people were wondering what the
01:26:47
case is actually about falsifying
01:26:49
business records um this a pretty
01:26:50
serious crime in New York City uh
01:26:53
basically when people don't keep correct
01:26:56
records uh when they're committing
01:26:58
crimes this is taken seriously in New
01:27:00
York because it is the financial capital
01:27:02
of the world they've got a long history
01:27:04
whether it's uh you know Bernie made off
01:27:07
Enron Etc of uh pursuing these I don't
01:27:11
know why this didn't get communicated
01:27:13
well to the public um but there were
01:27:16
obviously tons of business records
01:27:18
falsified here and they basically
01:27:20
admitted to it Michael Cohen had pleaded
01:27:22
guilty to it already
01:27:24
and so it really feels like a
01:27:26
misdemeanor and then to understand what
01:27:29
happened after that there is a law in
01:27:32
New York as saaks correctly pointed out
01:27:34
on top of the falsifying of business
01:27:36
records which New York takes deadly
01:27:37
seriously and they put this in every
01:27:39
indictment when people do it because
01:27:41
they want the accountants lawyers CFOs
01:27:44
to behave themselves and not cheat the
01:27:47
public the election interference also
01:27:50
taken very seriously in New York there's
01:27:51
been tons of cases again typ minor
01:27:55
things but people who do things like try
01:27:58
to stuff ballots Etc and so you put
01:28:00
those two together if you do uh
01:28:03
falsifying if you falsify business
01:28:05
records and you do it as part of a
01:28:07
second crime which he did which he was
01:28:09
convicted of then you get these
01:28:11
penalties so that is the explanation of
01:28:13
the case that was why he was found
01:28:15
guilty it's pretty easy to figure this
01:28:17
all out if you don't know all this it's
01:28:19
because you didn't take the time to read
01:28:21
anything about the case in terms of the
01:28:24
the basic theistic of it which I think
01:28:26
is because people are burned out on this
01:28:28
Trump has committed so many misdemeanors
01:28:31
and crimes over time that we're kind of
01:28:33
used to it and you know my personal take
01:28:35
on it and I'll just leave it at this is
01:28:37
I think it's going to be a speeding
01:28:39
ticket I do think it's going to get
01:28:40
overturned I think Trump has done this
01:28:43
his whole career I lived in New York all
01:28:45
these real estate guys were doing all
01:28:47
these kind of like little ticky tacky
01:28:49
cheating things and um I do think that
01:28:53
this was politically
01:28:54
motivated what was the second crime J
01:28:57
you if you understand election
01:28:59
interference election you're not allowed
01:29:01
to interfere with election so the theory
01:29:03
here which the you know the the jury
01:29:08
unanimously voted in front of in over
01:29:12
these six or seven weeks election
01:29:14
interference was because Trump was in
01:29:19
Dire Straits he after the Access
01:29:22
Hollywood
01:29:24
tape came out that weekend when he
01:29:26
admitted to assaulting women the grab
01:29:28
and by the blank came out his team in
01:29:32
this case admitted including his
01:29:35
assistant Michael Cohen Allan weiselberg
01:29:37
and of course the guy from the national
01:29:39
inquire pecker all of them agreed
01:29:42
testified and just were completely
01:29:45
honest that this payment and the reason
01:29:48
they bought these people off was because
01:29:51
they were scared that it would reduce
01:29:53
his
01:29:54
chances of being elected they were in
01:29:56
panic mode they all testified to that
01:29:59
the jury found that they committed these
01:30:02
crimes the falsifying of business
01:30:04
records in order to save his election
01:30:06
chances so that is the legal concept
01:30:08
This legal concept was available to
01:30:10
everybody for the last you know since
01:30:12
it's been filed in the New York Times
01:30:14
anybody who doesn't read these basic
01:30:18
things and comments on this case is just
01:30:20
a partisan who doesn't want to accept
01:30:22
the reality that these are actual legal
01:30:24
Concepts that are completely valid now I
01:30:27
do think despite all of that and me
01:30:30
making it abundantly clear to anybody
01:30:32
that you don't want people falsifying
01:30:33
business records and you also don't want
01:30:36
anybody interfering in elections I do
01:30:38
think it was politically motivated so
01:30:39
you got to keep two things in your mind
01:30:41
at the same time it's politically
01:30:43
motivated Trump commits crimes regularly
01:30:46
often but they tend to be reversed you
01:30:48
just said it was going to be reversed on
01:30:50
appeal so if you're so confident it's a
01:30:52
crime then why do you also say it's
01:30:53
going to get reversed yeah cuz I think
01:30:55
well I I I'll let me restate that I
01:30:57
think he's going to get a speeding
01:30:58
ticket I don't think the case is going
01:31:00
to reverse I think there's going to be
01:31:01
some sort of a pardon now that this is a
01:31:03
state kind of situation so it wouldn't
01:31:04
be Biden who would pardon it it would be
01:31:06
the uh the governor and I think what's
01:31:09
going to happen is somebody like Trump
01:31:11
Teflon Don he's called that for a reason
01:31:13
he gets away with it every time he's
01:31:15
Rich he's powerful like all rich and
01:31:16
powerful people you have to really do
01:31:18
something hanus to wind up in jail so I
01:31:20
think it's going to be a speeding ticket
01:31:22
I do think the the document cases that
01:31:24
one is a pretty legitimate one with the
01:31:27
obstruction and I do think the election
01:31:29
interference those are the two he should
01:31:30
be really worried about because if he is
01:31:32
found guilty on those those are legit
01:31:35
but I do think this country is going to
01:31:36
need to come together I hate to be the
01:31:37
bigger person here but I do think the
01:31:39
company the country needs to get
01:31:41
together and get us two new candidates
01:31:44
and we can't be having this law fair and
01:31:47
politically motivated lawsuits every
01:31:49
time somebody loses or they're afraid of
01:31:51
losing an election but let me ask you a
01:31:54
question Jason you're a you're a you're
01:31:56
a famous successful person and over the
01:31:58
next 10 or 20 years the odds are pretty
01:32:00
good you'll be more fam more successful
01:32:04
same more Jamal do you
01:32:06
feel do you feel the less the same or
01:32:09
more okay you have to say less same or
01:32:10
more okay if somebody in Government
01:32:12
doesn't like what you're up to after
01:32:15
today are you less the same or more in
01:32:18
terms of the risk that the laws could be
01:32:21
used to fight you I think we're kind of
01:32:24
in the same area I think there's always
01:32:27
been politically
01:32:28
motivated prosecutions that have
01:32:30
occurred that's part of you know the
01:32:32
flaw in our legal system and I do think
01:32:34
appeals pardons exist as the the relief
01:32:37
valow for those things and I think for
01:32:39
Rich and powerful people with great
01:32:41
representation they always get off
01:32:42
unless they've done something incredibly
01:32:45
incredibly heinous and I don't think
01:32:47
this is incredibly heinous and so when
01:32:49
it's framed as simply oh it's a porn
01:32:52
star he banged a the porn star who cares
01:32:55
it was consensual and she got a payoff
01:32:57
or maybe she was um extorting him even
01:33:01
you know I I I don't know if those
01:33:02
details were ever determined if you
01:33:04
could frame it as extortion or
01:33:06
not I think none of that matters like
01:33:09
this this falsifying business records
01:33:11
thing is
01:33:12
just something they did they should just
01:33:15
own it they should have just PL it out
01:33:18
and it should have probably never been
01:33:20
escalated to the next level with the
01:33:22
election interference I thought that was
01:33:23
a little bit of a stretched but not that
01:33:25
much of AET escalated because Alvin Brad
01:33:27
got elected to pursue this case and
01:33:29
that's the only way you could get it
01:33:30
from a misdemeanor to a felon yeah
01:33:33
exactly so I think that is part of the
01:33:35
you you sound I know you're really giddy
01:33:37
about this Jake C voice no I'm not
01:33:41
honestly I I'm gonna stop you right
01:33:43
there no sorry SX you don't get to say
01:33:45
I'm giddy I'm not gonna tell you how you
01:33:46
feel you don't get to tell me how I feel
01:33:48
I actually am sad for America I'm sad
01:33:50
for
01:33:51
America that Trump and Biden are are
01:33:53
choices okay great so speak for yourself
01:33:55
not for me okay great well maybe I'm
01:33:58
just detecting enthusiasm in your voice
01:33:59
I'm not quite sure what enthusiasm not
01:34:01
at all you're presenting these documents
01:34:03
on the screen that are basically from
01:34:05
Alvin br's case it's all you're doing is
01:34:07
repeating his theory of the case which I
01:34:10
must say is extremely tortured and it's
01:34:13
novel I don't think a case like this has
01:34:15
ever been brought and if you are going
01:34:16
to bring a case against a former
01:34:18
president it should be for something
01:34:19
more than ticky tacky type stuff stuff
01:34:22
that you yourself have admit is
01:34:24
politically motivated it's obvious brag
01:34:27
was out to get Trump this is a campaign
01:34:29
strategy you have to bend the law into a
01:34:33
pretzel to create the case that you're
01:34:35
describing listen you know I think Trump
01:34:38
will continue to do these he's had these
01:34:40
long before he was in public office he
01:34:42
got tons of speeding tickets like this
01:34:43
he'll get them after he's out of office
01:34:45
he's always committed crimes he's always
01:34:46
done these reminds me of is you remember
01:34:49
Ken star and what they went after Bill
01:34:51
Clinton for with the whole Monica Linsky
01:34:53
thing and when that star report dropped
01:34:55
you know and then had hundreds of pages
01:34:57
of legalities and they described all the
01:34:59
perant behavior in yeah you know amazing
01:35:02
amounts of detail at the end of the day
01:35:04
the American people looked at it and
01:35:07
decided that maybe there's a tody
01:35:09
element to this but it's personal
01:35:11
behavior and after some period of time
01:35:14
Clinton's popularity rebounded and he
01:35:16
actually gained seats in the midterms
01:35:18
because the Republicans overplayed their
01:35:19
hand yeah totally and I think in a
01:35:21
similar way it's very clear to me in
01:35:23
fact you've already said this is
01:35:25
politically motivated and they basically
01:35:27
have taken some sort of bookkeeping
01:35:29
error that was a misdemeanor that was
01:35:31
pass the U statute of limitations and
01:35:34
they've combined it again with this very
01:35:35
novel legal theory about somehow
01:35:37
committing fraud in the election which
01:35:39
by the way was not actually proven in
01:35:41
the case and as part of the jury
01:35:44
instructions again the judge allowed the
01:35:47
jury to have a multiple choice on what
01:35:51
the second crime was which is what a lot
01:35:53
of legal think will become the basis for
01:35:55
appeal so again this whole case was
01:35:58
tortured it was politically motivated I
01:36:01
would go so far to say it's a sham it's
01:36:03
an outrage and I think people are
01:36:04
reacting as though it's an outrage and
01:36:07
again if you're GNA bring a case not
01:36:09
just against a former president but the
01:36:10
current front runner to be the next
01:36:13
president it better be something
01:36:15
important not this ticky tacky thing
01:36:18
that the way you describe it as being
01:36:20
ticky tacky why even waste the Public's
01:36:23
time with this why even spent all the
01:36:24
money pursuing this I told you why yeah
01:36:28
Donald Trump convicted felon that's the
01:36:30
reason why the media wants that talking
01:36:32
point they and by the way if you want to
01:36:34
make a Switcheroo and get a different
01:36:35
candidate than Joe Biden that's not
01:36:37
going to happen now because Democrats
01:36:39
and the media think that this is their
01:36:42
salvation they know they're running a c
01:36:44
be it's not going to be the obstruction
01:36:46
case and the January six case that is
01:36:49
those are legit cases they should have
01:36:50
just gone after those because those are
01:36:51
the ones that are completely legit
01:36:54
but here we are the Democratic party
01:36:55
knows the running a candidate who can't
01:36:57
debate who can't put two sentences
01:36:58
together who can barely find his way off
01:37:01
a stage whose policies are coming home
01:37:03
to roost the economy like we talked
01:37:04
about in the show is slowing down very
01:37:07
rapidly his foreign policy is a disaster
01:37:10
but they think that somehow this is
01:37:11
going to be his salvation is is being
01:37:15
able to say that Donald Trump is a felon
01:37:17
that's their plan yeah and I think at
01:37:20
the end of the day this is probably not
01:37:21
going to work all right there you have
01:37:23
it folks there's your quick hot take
01:37:25
around the horn with your besties on
01:37:27
Trump being convicted by a jury in New
01:37:30
York today don't be sentence on July
01:37:33
11th and we'll see what happens there
01:37:35
the market also after we talked about
01:37:39
Salesforce a bunch of the SAS companies
01:37:41
took a dive in in the after hours
01:37:43
freeberg any thoughts there as we
01:37:44
quickly not not just SAS but also Dell
01:37:48
and in particular Dell reported their
01:37:50
stock is down 20% after hours so I do
01:37:53
wonder if there is a slow Reckoning
01:37:54
underway right now in
01:37:57
technology that's as we talked about in
01:37:59
the show a function of both kind of an
01:38:01
economic slowdown so Enterprises making
01:38:02
fewer Investments but they were they
01:38:04
clearly called out the increased cost
01:38:07
associated with AI so they are spending
01:38:10
quite a lot and their their cogs on AI
01:38:12
systems is much higher and so they're
01:38:15
showing a lot more cash burn and I think
01:38:17
this is to ch's point ch's been talking
01:38:19
for a while this is unsustainable guys
01:38:21
I've been saying this now for a month so
01:38:22
let's just be precise again you cannot
01:38:25
spend this kind of money and show no
01:38:27
incremental Revenue potential so while
01:38:29
this is incredible for NVIDIA the
01:38:32
chicken is coming home to roost because
01:38:34
if you do not start seeing Revenue flow
01:38:36
to the bottom line of these companies
01:38:38
that are spending $26 billion doar a
01:38:41
quarter the market cap of Nvidia is not
01:38:43
what the market cap of Nvidia should be
01:38:45
and all of these other companies are
01:38:47
going to get punished for spending this
01:38:48
kind of money now Dell is a unique
01:38:50
example in the sense that I actually
01:38:52
think it's a beneficiary of spend and I
01:38:55
think that it will build data centers
01:38:57
and it will actually do well in the move
01:38:59
to AI because it's a very smartly
01:39:03
positioned pick and shovels provider but
01:39:05
the threshold question is where are all
01:39:08
these new fangled things that we're
01:39:09
supposed to see that justifies a hundred
01:39:11
billion dollar of Chip spend a year $200
01:39:14
billion doll of energy spend 100 billion
01:39:17
dollars of all this other stuff guys
01:39:19
this is we're now spending $750 billion
01:39:22
do this is on the order of a
01:39:25
national transfer payment and we've seen
01:39:29
nothing to show for it except that you
01:39:31
can mimic somebody's
01:39:32
voice and you can make like a cat jump
01:39:35
on another cat I mean making a developer
01:39:37
30 or 40% more efficient that's actually
01:39:39
legit but I will say I did that hasn't
01:39:41
happened yet either no that's toally
01:39:43
happen yet no no that's happening in
01:39:45
startups right now I'm seeing startups
01:39:46
with four developers do what just a
01:39:48
couple years ago they would need eight
01:39:50
to do there and that's the premise of
01:39:51
your 8 company H I think that developers
01:39:54
can go faster with these tools but these
01:39:55
are yes but these are aspirational
01:39:57
things when you take a for example a
01:39:59
30,000 person company it is not true
01:40:02
that those Engineers now are now all of
01:40:04
a sudden as productive as 130,000
01:40:06
employees it's not even true that a
01:40:08
thousand employee company is as
01:40:10
productive as a 4,000 person company and
01:40:12
the reason is for one very specific
01:40:14
thing even as all of these next gener
01:40:17
next Generation models get released the
01:40:20
Practical threshold problem is when you
01:40:22
introduce a a completely new way of
01:40:25
doing things into an existing Workforce
01:40:27
what happens is people push back and
01:40:29
even in the companies that I own where I
01:40:31
could theoretically mandate you must use
01:40:33
these tools because I am the owner of
01:40:35
this company it does happen and so I
01:40:39
think what you're really seeing Jason is
01:40:40
a few people embrace it those people may
01:40:43
be 50 to 100% more productive but when
01:40:45
you blend that into the entire Workforce
01:40:48
it's still a single digit percentage
01:40:49
which means the overall productivity
01:40:51
gains are nominal
01:40:54
you're forced to spend again $750
01:40:57
billion a year it doesn't all hang
01:41:00
together yet yeah I agree there's going
01:41:02
to be a bit of a gap there and I am
01:41:05
biased because I see startups which are
01:41:07
always looking for the most resourceful
01:41:08
way to do things and you're talking
01:41:09
about large Enterprises which are slow
01:41:11
to adopt right both could be right here
01:41:14
yeah you get around the innovator's
01:41:16
Dilemma by saying guys you need to be AI
01:41:18
first from the outset which a startup
01:41:20
can do because they can they can recruit
01:41:22
people that
01:41:23
for example with 8090 same thing you
01:41:26
must use these tools for example we are
01:41:28
not allowed to have any administrative
01:41:29
staff everything is done by an agent or
01:41:32
workflow but that's because we're a new
01:41:34
company and we can make those decisions
01:41:36
but somebody who is at an established
01:41:38
company I suspect that these that these
01:41:41
gains are nominal at Best Yet the spend
01:41:44
is outrageous and it gets okay and when
01:41:46
it catches up with you when you report I
01:41:49
think the market is sort of like saying
01:41:50
well I I I think the first the you know
01:41:52
the general statement might be made that
01:41:54
perhaps the first AI mini bubble is
01:41:57
bursting a bit and particularly with
01:42:00
respect to the accelerated expectations
01:42:03
that public market investors had for
01:42:05
public market technology stocks that
01:42:07
perhaps now is the time for a bit of a
01:42:08
reckoning that perhaps this isn't going
01:42:10
to happen at the same margin level or
01:42:12
the pace that folks had modeled and this
01:42:15
is going to cause a bit of a setback I
01:42:16
think pace is a very good point you're
01:42:18
making I also think that with the GDP
01:42:20
slowdown that we've seen report that
01:42:22
just came out this week with a sub 2% US
01:42:24
GDP growth we are seeing an economic
01:42:26
slowdown underway there is going to be
01:42:28
reduced spending there is going to be
01:42:29
reduced conversion of Enterprise
01:42:31
customers to buy anything and so that is
01:42:34
going to dramatically affect the market
01:42:36
we're looking at 5% 30-year treasury
01:42:38
rates which means that you are going to
01:42:39
see multiple compression that's going to
01:42:41
happen across the market for tech stocks
01:42:44
so this could be the beginning of what I
01:42:45
think might be a slow contraction one
01:42:47
thing I just want to make I just one
01:42:50
thing to make I I I do have some
01:42:51
information on the Dell stuff one thing
01:42:53
to keep in mind is they had like a 30%
01:42:56
runup or 20% runup at least
01:43:00
since Nvidia CEO praised them and like I
01:43:04
guess all these mem stock people just
01:43:06
jumped in so I think it's just like a
01:43:08
little ticky tacky correction back to
01:43:09
the ticky tacky sack any final Dots here
01:43:12
on AI
01:43:13
before we all leave to go to
01:43:17
our you know Trump celebrations
01:43:21
Endor yeah maybe the market doesn't like
01:43:24
the us becoming a Banana Republic there
01:43:26
it is folks the Banana
01:43:30
Republic oh I can still be friends with
01:43:32
you guys uh all right everybody for
01:43:35
who's you guys oh you guys to those guys
01:43:40
all right for chats two missing buttons
01:43:44
would would like to encourage everybody
01:43:45
to enjoy their summer three buttons are
01:43:47
coming um we have you want to see my I
01:43:50
got my short short oh oh God that's so
01:43:53
pasty white I got to get my sunglasses
01:43:55
the over under on when chth goes for the
01:43:57
third button is J is June 25th so June
01:44:00
25th in the betting markets right now
01:44:02
for the third button love you guys we'll
01:44:04
see you all next time on the world's
01:44:07
greatest podcast
01:44:10
byebye let your winners
01:44:12
ride Rainman
01:44:17
David and instead we open source it to
01:44:19
the fans and they've just gone crazy
01:44:21
with it love you queen
01:44:25
[Music]
01:44:30
of Besties
01:44:32
are that's my dog taking your
01:44:35
[Music]
01:44:40
driveways we should all just get a room
01:44:42
and just have one big huge orgy cuz
01:44:44
they're all this useless it's like this
01:44:45
like sexual tension that they just need
01:44:47
to release
01:44:49
somehow
01:44:50
your your your be
01:44:54
we need to get
01:44:59
[Music]
01:45:06
merch okay last year at the all in
01:45:08
Summit we had a wonderful talk by Jenny
01:45:10
just and they have a very cool program
01:45:13
called Power poker they're holding a
01:45:16
2024 summer boot camp and tournament for
01:45:18
women only so for the ladies out there
01:45:20
if you want to learn how to play poker
01:45:22
just like the besties and and Jenny just
01:45:24
you can join this four-week training
01:45:26
class get unlimited playing time and you
01:45:27
play in a tournament I'm going to come
01:45:29
and uh play in one of the sessions but
01:45:31
here's the great part we uh donated a
01:45:33
ticket because we think it's worth uh
01:45:35
encouraging women to join the poker
01:45:36
community and so uh there's a $7500
01:45:39
all-in summit 2024 ticket at stake
01:45:41
there's only 80 spots go ahead and join
01:45:43
at poker power.com
01:45:45
summer- boot camp poker power.com
01:45:47
summer- boot cab it's going to fill up
01:45:49
quick I know a number of the women who
01:45:51
work at my venture from launch have
01:45:53
joined and they're looking forward to
01:45:54
learning poker again 80 spots I think
01:45:56
they charge 100 bucks just to make sure
01:45:58
you show up and uh there's an all-in
01:45:59
Sumit ticket there for you you can
01:46:01
actually see the video of this podcast
01:46:03
on YouTube
01:46:05
youtube.com Allin or just search Allin
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01:46:12
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01:46:15
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01:46:16
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can follow us on xx.com thee Allin pod
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01:46:46
okay everybody follow saxs x.com davidx
01:46:49
and check out Sax's slack killer glue
01:46:52
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01:46:57
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01:47:04
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01:47:30
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01:47:34
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01:47:37
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01:47:40
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