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all right everybody Welcome to the
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world's greatest
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podcast with me again today the world's
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number one podcast yes the world's
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number one podcast we we came in eth
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last week I think for those of you
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looking at the iTunes
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rankings which is absurd we've only got
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to beat number eight across all of Apple
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something like that yeah whatever their
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top episodes are on the weekends well
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that means we crushed on Spotify then
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probably yeah I would guess um I don't I
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don't know all the rankings but and and
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I guess on YouTube we got labeled with
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some Co thing
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I mean what is going on at YouTube a
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joke like literally you're labeling Co
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at this point I mean what a joke oh my
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Lord
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so I guess we have to at the top of the
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show talk about the uh fundraiser and I
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guess this like Veno Costa came in hot
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this week and attacked the besties let's
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play the clip what is your sense of the
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shifting winds in the valley around
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politics I think for a very long time
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the valley was seen as sort of a liberal
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Bastion uh but you know if you listen to
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Elon Musk or you listen to uh all-in
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podcast and and and that gang and others
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it seems to be shifting potentially
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towards former president Trump is that
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just a small pocket or do you think that
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that's a a real shift in terms of the
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way uh the valley is thinking
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politically the first thing I would say
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is all in podcast and some of the
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supporters there are not based in the
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valley I I would say there's a bunch of
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MAA extremists in every part of society
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and uh I hope we can prevent them from
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destroying democracy which is probably
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the most important issue we face all
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right so um why are you destroying
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democracy now that's a good bit J that's
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good let your winners
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ride Rainman David
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and instead we open source it to the
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fans and they've just gone crazy with it
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love
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Queen all right David fno was at the
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conference he got a little chippy here
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maybe he got a little bit out of line
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who's a little bit out of line what's
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your take a little bit a little bit a
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little bit well first of all venod
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should realize we're not magga extremist
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or extremist of any sort because he's at
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all in Summit last year he was great
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yeah we liked what he to say and I
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certainly don't dispute his expertise
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and and track record in
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Tech but in addition to that then he's
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saying that we're not based in Silicon
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Valley we're not from Silicon Valley
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we've all been here for decades and then
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he doubled down on that in a tweet so
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that's a bizarre statement maybe he
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thinks he gets to Define people in or
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out of Silicon Valley I don't really
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understand it but to be Frank this is
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one of a series of statements that he's
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made recently that I can only call
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insulting and childish first he had this
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tweet that he said that Trump supporters
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were lacking in empathy and caring then
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he had another tweet where he said that
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Trump supporters weren't teaching good
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values to their kids this caused Shawn
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McGuire who's a partner of seoa to quote
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tweet him saying that I think that I'd
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rather raise my kids to grow up to take
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after aanka Trump than Hunter Biden yeah
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and that got like something like 20,000
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likes and it was one of those br ratios
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I've ever seen on a tweet so in any
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event I mean this is just one in a
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series of of pars and tweets and look I
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think you can take whatever position you
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want on a political candidate I can
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understand if he doesn't like Trump a
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lot of people don't he's raising money
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for Biden that's fine doesn't bother me
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at all he just had a fundraiser like two
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weeks ago or something right exactly
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that's not an issue at all but what I do
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take offense at is labeling millions and
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millions of ordinary Americans as
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somehow lacking in empathy lacking in
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caring not being good parents because
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you don't like their support for Trump
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yeah and I think that that that is a
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statement that frankly reeks of being
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cocooned in an elite bubble for way too
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long and let me just explain if you look
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at where Trump's support is strongest
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it's really in Middle America and sort
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of the heartland of America of what in
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between the elite States basically the
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part America that Coastal at least
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dismissively refer to as flyover country
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sure and it's a lot of the industrial
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Midwest and frankly that part of the
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country has had not had the same type of
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economic experience that we've had in
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silen valley of course they have not
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been beneficiaries of globalization or
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equities you know and they're they're in
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the working class and the working class
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in the factories got gutted yeah that's
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well yeah look if you're in one of the
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handful of export Industries in America
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and I'm talking about if you're in
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Hollywood or you're in big Finance or
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you're in software then globalization
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has been great for you because it has
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created huge Global markets for our
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products however if you're in an
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industry that has to compete with global
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exports then it's been very bad with you
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and blueco collar workers have been hurt
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Labor's been hurt people who work with
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their hands have been hurt they have not
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benefited in the same way from the
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system we've had in this country for the
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last 30 years so you can understand why
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they would not be so enchanted with
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Elite thinking of course and I think to
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to then label those people as lacking in
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caring or empathy or not being good
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parents because they haven't had they
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haven't had the same economic ride that
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you've had for the last 30 years and
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then you it's a blind spot you are the
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one who is fighting a legal battle to
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kick some of those people the public the
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surf be kick the public off of the
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public beach in front of your beach
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house and then you're saying they're the
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ones lacking in empathy dude look in the
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mirror yeah I mean listen the great
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irony of this is as you know the
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Democrats were supposed to be the the
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party of the working people and Biden
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was supposed to be the Pinnacle of that
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like fighting for unions Fighting For
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the Working person and and so they've
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just lost that whole thing and I'll say
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like I it feels like a lot of people are
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tilted because they defeated Trump and
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now he's back and so that tilts a lot of
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people like there was a lot of effort a
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lot of energy and a a feeling of success
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that Trump was ousted and the fact that
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the guy is now the front runner to be
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president again can be very tilting
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after feeling like you've already won
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the battle and guess what it's back I
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will also defend venod real quick I I'll
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say having known venod for a long time
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he's an investor with me he's a guy I've
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come to appreciate and and think highly
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of we had him at the summit he was great
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at the summit he was great the awesome
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if you listen to his thing he said the
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listeners of the Pod and then he said
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Maga extremist so they're not based in
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Silicon Valley I think he was
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referencing that the listeners of the
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Pod are not based in Silicon Valley and
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they are mag didn't yeah I couldn't hear
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I think what he meant to say was and
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some of the supporters there are not
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based in Silicon Valley meaning like the
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supporters chth your thoughts on vote's
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comments yeah I think vote's comments
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are a microcosm of something that's a
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little bit bigger than just him and I
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think is roughly emblematic of the
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mainstream media which is
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I think the four of us have found over
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the course of these last four years
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doing the podcast a rhythm where there's
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a whole diversity of views we've always
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respected each other we've learned from
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each other and each of us have taken
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turns expressing something that the
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others have ended up converging on
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that's not a holistic statement on every
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issue but it has it has happened and
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that's a an incredible example of how
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you should figure things out from first
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principles especially things that matter
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and I think this is the first time and
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you know look David said this a few
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years ago he said sax did that the
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course of Elections will be driven by
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podcasts and I didn't give that a full
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enough
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waiting at the moment when he said it
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but I think what I'm realizing is it's
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not necessarily just that podcast will
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frame elections but it's the
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counterfactual which is that it fills a
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vacuum and I think what you're seeing
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right now are the reactions of people
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that have thrived in what used to work
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which was a traditional media
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infrastructure that would shape how
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people were supposed to think but then
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all of a sudden if you can have a
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platform like this where people just
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talk from first principles
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respectfully and then the chips are
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going to be what it is and you know
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people will come to their own
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conclusions I think that that's what
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people are reacting to so I think what
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venot is reacting to is this sort of
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discomfort where you see four reasonable
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intelligent people all of a sudden talk
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open-mindedly about what's happening in
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the presidential election and what you
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leave out is the planted Orthodoxy of
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what you're supposed to think and that's
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disconcerting to him it's dis
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disconcerting and confusing maybe to
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sorin who I think is a wonderful
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reporter and a thinker it's
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disconcerting Jason to every single
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media Outlet over the last week that's
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breathlessly been trying to get me or
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saxs to have an opinion on this and the
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reason I've deleted all of these emails
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is they don't get a chance to frame what
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we
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think you can listen to the podcast and
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know what we think this is the future of
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how smart reasonable moderate people
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should make decisions it is an
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example talking to somebody you disagree
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with does not make your opinion
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bastardized it actually makes your
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opinion valuable there are these simple
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truths to living a productive life that
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if you want to embrace you need to find
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friends that you can trust even on
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issues when you disagree you can hear
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them out so that's what's happening
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right now and I think that that's why we
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all need to sort of stand together and
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lock in arms and just keep moving
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forward this is something really
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important here that's happening and I
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think that's why the media and these
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opinion makers are losing their minds
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freeberg your thoughts on this you're
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friends with
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venod as you mentioned and you've always
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said to me and in our personal
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discussions that the reason you do this
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PO is because you really want to set an
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example of how to have great
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conversations and learn from each other
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and and the tone of what we do here so
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your thoughts on this the unfortunate
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reality in a voting system an election
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cycle like we're in venod went and did a
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fundraiser it's public that he did a
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fundraiser for Biden a few weeks ago and
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he wants to win the election he wants to
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make his horse win there's a lot reasons
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why I'm sure venod has chosen that
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person to be his horse and so when you
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get on the playing field you got two
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teams and only one team wins so you know
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everyone pulls out all the stops to win
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one of the things that is done is
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unfortunate and it over time causes an
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erosion and a hardening into a kind of
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polarity between all people which is
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that you call the other side wrong or
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bad or extreme the term that he used
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which really I
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think personifies the problem is he said
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they're listeners are they're Maga
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extremists extremist being the word
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right mag means make America great again
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which I think everybody wants to make
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America great again right whatever the
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the the extremism phrase is used by both
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parties to describe the points of view
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of the other side and what I think is
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lacking is a reshi of the perspective to
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say their views are valid I acknowledge
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their views I hear them I know why they
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feel that way I'm understanding where
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that group of people are coming from
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and to have that acknowledgement
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unfortunately softens and weakens your
00:12:03
position and ability to go out and win
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an election and so both sides Harden
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themselves and use terms like this to
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try and discredit the other side so it's
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unfortunate to see I think we all
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understand where someone who's trying to
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win a battle on the field is coming from
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when they're trying to do this but I do
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think that what is deeply lacking in the
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erosion that's Arisen is because we
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can't say I hear you I see the problems
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I I recognize you as people just like us
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you have kids you have families
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and you have a different point of view
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on the policies that will work and the
00:12:33
individual that will realize those
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policies I also think it's important to
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make sure that we reiterate again at the
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sake of being pedantic the facts which
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is this is a nonpartisan show and it is
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a platform that has showcased and given
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time to Democrats and Republicans and
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independents yeah and they've all taken
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us up on it so that thought by venod is
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at
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incomplete and more appropriately just
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stupid and factually wrong that's a good
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point Larry summer spoke at the same
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conference that the not Larry Summers
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Dean Phillips Bobby Kennedy Chris
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Christie I mean this is a spectrum of
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people that we are bringing on again
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Cheryl s you can hear from them Jared
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Kushner you can hear from them in an
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unfiltered way and come to your own
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conclusion that's why we were number
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eight last week that's the exact reason
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reason why and I think that that's very
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scary because instead of power Brokers
00:13:33
being able to filter an opinion you now
00:13:36
have an opportunity to just hear it for
00:13:38
yourself discuss it amongst your friends
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and come to your own conclusion so we
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have always been bipartisan here and we
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will continue to be bipartisan the
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second thing is and I just want to say
00:13:47
this again I have asked the White House
00:13:50
for President Biden to come on the show
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oh come on the show please yeah yeah
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we've offered the exact same thing we
00:13:56
are just we are just waiting people
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really want me to be friends with you
00:14:00
guys they want me to end my friendship
00:14:01
with youat they want me to end my
00:14:02
friendship with you saak like like and
00:14:04
these are people who are are mutuals I
00:14:06
just want to say and I want to just tell
00:14:08
them all equally to go [ __ ] themselves
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here you can bleep out the f word like I
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I'm not picking my friends based on
00:14:13
their political parties or their
00:14:14
leanings or who they're supporting for
00:14:16
president the way I look at this saxs is
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at this point we're all Americans we're
00:14:21
in this together America survive
00:14:24
survived Trump's presidency America's
00:14:26
going to survive Biden's presidency the
00:14:28
Democratic process it is very messy
00:14:31
everybody gets to have a voice and let's
00:14:33
just pause for a second here and open up
00:14:34
the aperture let's be thankful that
00:14:36
everybody gets to have a say let's keep
00:14:38
it from getting personal half the humans
00:14:41
on this planet Earth do not have a voice
00:14:43
the one thing that's trending in the
00:14:45
wrong direction globally is people
00:14:46
living in a democracy it's the one thing
00:14:48
not getting better we have a lot of work
00:14:50
to do in this country we have to respect
00:14:52
each other like we try to do here on
00:14:54
this podcast and we have to talk about
00:14:55
the important issues we all agree the
00:14:57
budget's out of control we all agree the
00:14:59
education system sucks we live in a
00:15:01
multi-polar world we have to figure that
00:15:03
out when we should go to war when we
00:15:05
shouldn't when we need to stay out of
00:15:07
things these are complicated issues and
00:15:09
name calling and this presidency is not
00:15:11
as important as tackling these issues
00:15:13
Together As Americans I hope everybody
00:15:15
can keep that in mind so let's debate
00:15:17
this may the best candidate win and then
00:15:21
let's move on and let's solve some
00:15:22
problems here okay and it it's getting
00:15:24
very personal yeah well said really well
00:15:27
said I know I'm really hurt by this
00:15:29
because I tell you personally it's very
00:15:30
hurtful to me because I value our
00:15:31
friendships and they're picking on the
00:15:33
wrong guy cuz you're the most loyal guy
00:15:35
and so it's kind of like it's going to
00:15:36
be the least effective because well you
00:15:38
still care what they think Jal that's
00:15:39
the problem so they can get to you no
00:15:41
you can ask me if I do that don't tell
00:15:42
me what I think sax you can ask me okay
00:15:45
I actually care about the two of you
00:15:48
bicker like brothers it's no we do but I
00:15:49
know I just have to retrain Sachs that
00:15:51
he can't tell me what I think okay yeah
00:15:53
no because you do that you put words in
00:15:55
my mouth for all listeners they just
00:15:56
want you go to know they've been
00:15:57
bickering like this for 20 years so it's
00:16:00
it happens even worse offline when we're
00:16:02
not on the show unb nonstop you're
00:16:04
ruining it JC you're just ruining it
00:16:06
right now here's the thing I respect you
00:16:10
know all of my friends and I I like
00:16:11
having a diversity of opinions that
00:16:13
makes life more interesting for me and
00:16:15
then to tell me I can't be friends with
00:16:16
this person that person the way I grew
00:16:18
up my dad had a Bar Hell's Angels cops
00:16:21
firefighters just everybody was allowed
00:16:23
to come and hang out at the bar like
00:16:25
we're here we're having a discourse
00:16:27
everybody's welcome for a seat at the
00:16:28
table lgbtq were they all of them the
00:16:31
entire rainbow what people haven't
00:16:32
figured out yet is that cancel culture
00:16:34
is over virtue signaling is over
00:16:37
absolutely Dei is over off Trend not on
00:16:40
Trend and the people who are still
00:16:42
Tweeting these blanket statements and
00:16:44
they're trying to demonize the entire
00:16:46
other side with unfactual unfounded pot
00:16:50
shots are just making fools of
00:16:52
themselves and you can see that in the
00:16:54
you can see that in the reaction on X
00:16:56
all right let's move on and we have some
00:16:58
breaking news year oh no just to put
00:17:00
things on a happier note what happened
00:17:02
did Uber get BFF by Tesla just launched
00:17:05
the Tesla Mescal oh breaking news story
00:17:08
hold
00:17:09
on it's a breaking news story Tesla has
00:17:12
launched mecal in that beautiful
00:17:15
lightning bottle I just ordered my
00:17:17
bottle of this like two seconds ago
00:17:19
while we were doing the show uh oh and
00:17:21
because this sold out in like two hours
00:17:22
before and now the B the bottles of the
00:17:24
original Tesla tequila go for like
00:17:26
$2,000 now on eBay
00:17:29
so get yours get yours now if it's still
00:17:32
Smokey mcow there you go wait a second
00:17:33
is this going to compete with the all
00:17:36
in bit uh well it'll be all sold out by
00:17:39
the time we launch our ball we're both
00:17:41
gonna be sold out we're both gonna be
00:17:42
sold out like everybody can see that
00:17:44
everybody can win it's not a zero sum
00:17:46
game everybody can secure the bag all
00:17:49
right let's get into the docket enough
00:17:50
with the self referential we're all
00:17:52
influencers now did you guys see my deck
00:17:53
this month we're all influencers we're
00:17:55
all influencers absolutely absolutely
00:17:58
there's a lot of Federal Regulation
00:18:00
going on around AI as we know a
00:18:03
regulatory capture shout out to our guy
00:18:04
Bill Gurley who did a great talk last
00:18:06
year about this on Wednesday the New
00:18:08
York Times reported that the doj and the
00:18:10
FTC had struck a deal on how to go after
00:18:13
AI incumbents here's the terms of the
00:18:14
deal and again this is all Breaking the
00:18:17
doj gets to investigate whether Nvidia
00:18:19
violated Anti-Trust laws they didn't
00:18:22
specify what they're going after here
00:18:24
but it could include the Nvidia use of
00:18:26
Cuda software to lock customers into
00:18:29
using their gpus or maybe how Nvidia
00:18:31
distributes their gpus to customers
00:18:33
there's a lot of Regulation around that
00:18:35
and the FTC takes the lead on looking
00:18:36
into open ai's conduct and Microsoft's
00:18:39
AI deals obviously there's been a ton of
00:18:41
those including Aqua hires Etc and then
00:18:43
just this morning the Wall Street
00:18:44
Journal reported that the FTC had opened
00:18:46
a probe into Microsoft's deal with
00:18:48
inflection AI That's the one if you're
00:18:50
remember where they bought the staff and
00:18:52
then did some faka crazy Commerce deal
00:18:55
where they gave them a bunch of money I
00:18:56
guess to bail out the investors and that
00:18:59
one is as conflicted up and down as you
00:19:01
could possibly imagine they know
00:19:03
Microsoft structured that deal in a way
00:19:05
that could avoid regulatory scy you
00:19:07
heard that here first actually we we
00:19:08
talked about this concept of a shadow
00:19:10
Aqua hire on this very program when we
00:19:12
saw it because we'd never seen a deal
00:19:13
like that it had includes that $650
00:19:16
million licensing fee all right there's
00:19:19
tons of other angles here but let's
00:19:22
start with you chth what are your
00:19:24
thoughts on this regulatory capture in
00:19:27
nvidia's Ascension for those of you not
00:19:31
watching it's almost become the largest
00:19:33
market cap company in Tech actually
00:19:34
today Nvidia passed Apple for a moment
00:19:36
in time so this is pretty crazy what
00:19:39
we've seen with Nvidia and here we go
00:19:41
regulatory capture coming in hot jamaath
00:19:44
your thoughts I have two thoughts
00:19:45
they're sort of mixed
00:19:48
emotions the first is I think the doj
00:19:51
and the FDC are totally way out of their
00:19:54
ski tips on this this is a totally nent
00:19:57
industry we don't have any good examples
00:20:00
of end user use cases either in the
00:20:03
Enterprise or amongst consumers we only
00:20:06
have 18 months of spend history it is
00:20:10
true that we've spent probably 750
00:20:12
billion to a trillion dollars
00:20:14
collectively now yep on things with the
00:20:16
AI label but it is also true that that's
00:20:19
probably generated less than 10 billion
00:20:21
doar of Revenue so I don't see what
00:20:25
they're exactly
00:20:26
investigating in an ex ex immature
00:20:29
Market where we haven't yet seen one
00:20:32
cycle of boom and bust so that we know
00:20:35
what we're actually dealing with so it's
00:20:36
way too premature and it's just people
00:20:39
afraid and tilting at windmills the
00:20:42
second part the part that's mixed though
00:20:44
is we are seeing a clever form of deal
00:20:48
making that these huge hyperscalers are
00:20:50
doing to work around the traditional
00:20:53
constraints that you've had on
00:20:54
businesses Jason you and I worked at AOL
00:20:58
in a moment where AOL paid a very dear
00:21:01
cost for essentially roundt tripping
00:21:03
Revenue yep Microsoft had to go through
00:21:05
a huge
00:21:07
doj inquiry and a settlement decree and
00:21:10
they were in The Penalty Box for most of
00:21:12
Steve bomber's tenure as a CEO a l
00:21:14
decade yeah and the handcuffs came off
00:21:16
when Satya took over that
00:21:19
business so I think what I'm trying to
00:21:21
say is folks have become extremely
00:21:24
sophisticated at replacing round
00:21:26
tripping with these complicated Tac 2.0
00:21:31
whatever you want to call it credit
00:21:32
oriented deals they'll Finance you to
00:21:35
buy their own chips all of this stuff
00:21:38
has to be scrutinized a little bit more
00:21:40
so that part I support but all of a
00:21:43
sudden launching an antitrust
00:21:45
investigation makes no sense so I really
00:21:47
think the inquiry should be coming from
00:21:48
the SEC about is this real Revenue
00:21:51
that's actually the key issue and and
00:21:52
this goes to chath what we talked about
00:21:54
like let's if we're going to police
00:21:56
something tactics make sense not fut
00:21:59
competition which has been Lena Khan's
00:22:02
sort of approach to this and she's only
00:22:03
going to be in the position for another
00:22:05
couple months the the election goes the
00:22:07
way it's going so this might all be mood
00:22:10
freeberg I want to get your thoughts on
00:22:11
this we had that great talk 2851 miles
00:22:14
from from Bill and Regulatory capture at
00:22:16
the summit you can uh look it would be
00:22:18
in the show notes if you haven't seen it
00:22:19
it's great talk Freer your thoughts on
00:22:22
this I I don't know what
00:22:25
regulatory capture in video are you
00:22:27
talking about regulatory Capt of Nvidia
00:22:29
just regulatory capture in the framing
00:22:31
of AI is it too early hey we're like in
00:22:34
the we're not even in the first inning
00:22:36
here and already we're going to start
00:22:38
investigating everybody and it just
00:22:40
seems pretty one of the silly aspects is
00:22:44
they just passed this law in California
00:22:46
new some warns against Perils of over
00:22:50
regulating AI oh good Governor New
00:22:54
warned on Wednesday against stifling the
00:22:56
burgeoning AI sector I mean new is well
00:22:58
informed by the tech community so sure I
00:23:00
I don't think he and he's also an
00:23:01
intelligent person so I don't think he'd
00:23:03
kind of you know fall quickly in line on
00:23:05
this one but the way that the statutes
00:23:07
were written is there's a definition on
00:23:09
the size of a model which in and of
00:23:12
itself is very quickly changing as we
00:23:14
know we've seen recently significant
00:23:16
reductions in model size that actually
00:23:19
improve performance overall of the model
00:23:21
for specific applications and it's very
00:23:23
likely we end up seeing a lot of more
00:23:26
smaller targeted models being used in
00:23:28
spe specific applications instead of one
00:23:30
massive general purpose model being used
00:23:32
or networks of smaller models which is
00:23:35
what really where I think the industry
00:23:36
is going and if that's where things go
00:23:37
then this the statute doesn't even
00:23:39
matter it it makes no sense anymore and
00:23:41
that shows you I think how quickly
00:23:42
things are changing they go and they get
00:23:44
quote experts opinions in a couple of
00:23:46
months those experts come back they're
00:23:48
like here's the size of a model that you
00:23:50
need to be regulating and then the
00:23:51
legislators run and they write the the
00:23:54
code they pass the statute and all of a
00:23:56
sudden it doesn't even make sense
00:23:57
anymore so yes I don't think we really
00:23:59
know where this technolog is all falling
00:24:01
out at this point and I think it's very
00:24:03
difficult to have the government kind of
00:24:05
reach in too quickly to try and identify
00:24:09
what they should and shouldn't be
00:24:10
allowing to happen from a free market
00:24:12
perspective your thoughts David Sachs
00:24:15
especially in light of the fact that
00:24:17
it's looking like we're we're going to
00:24:18
have some regime change in Washington
00:24:20
and the FTC is going to gonna going to
00:24:22
turn over obviously if that happens well
00:24:25
look I agree with you guys that this is
00:24:26
just too soon to be opening these inves
00:24:28
ations it's true that open Ai and Nvidia
00:24:31
have leads in their respective markets
00:24:34
but that's all it is at this point it's
00:24:36
way too early in the development of
00:24:38
these markets to say that these are
00:24:40
clearly monopolis there's still a lot of
00:24:42
competition going on if a few years from
00:24:45
now Nvidia still has whatever 85 90%
00:24:48
market share and no one's even close to
00:24:50
catching up then maybe you consider at a
00:24:53
monopolis same thing with open AI but it
00:24:56
just seems very early to be rushing into
00:24:58
investigations of these companies I mean
00:25:00
the AI Market is what 18 months old two
00:25:03
two years old maybe at most I'd say two
00:25:05
is a good way to look at it you sure
00:25:07
yeah so it's just very early to be doing
00:25:09
this look I think this is of a piece
00:25:11
with remember that executive order or
00:25:14
whatever that you remember when the
00:25:15
White House issued that 100 Page Plus
00:25:18
executive order on AI regulation we
00:25:20
covered it on the show and we also
00:25:22
thought that was too soon and we thought
00:25:25
that if the internet had been regulated
00:25:28
in that way in you know circuit 1995 or
00:25:31
1997 it never would have blossomed the
00:25:34
way that it did you know you want to
00:25:36
give these markets some time to play out
00:25:38
before you bring the down the heavy hand
00:25:40
of regulation on them so it just seems
00:25:43
to me like the administration is getting
00:25:45
carried away here with this desire to
00:25:47
regulate this new space and I mean
00:25:50
frankly it's of a piece with you I I
00:25:54
would say an innovation hostile agenda
00:25:57
you also have the attacks on crypto you
00:25:59
just had buying veto a bill that would
00:26:02
have finally given crypto a regulatory
00:26:03
framework in the US it passed with 60
00:26:07
votes in the Senate including Democrats
00:26:09
like Chuck Schumer and it still wasn't
00:26:12
good enough and oh and it was based on a
00:26:13
framework I think that came from the SEC
00:26:15
yeah but Biden is basically in the
00:26:17
Elizabeth Warren camp that he's going to
00:26:18
give no quarter to crypto so you've got
00:26:22
hostility to AI you've got hostility to
00:26:25
crypto you've got hostility to m&a no
00:26:27
one can get m&a deal through right now
00:26:30
you put all these things together plus
00:26:32
you've got hostility to options as
00:26:34
compensation in terms of the 25%
00:26:37
unrealized gains tax you add up all
00:26:40
these things and again I think this is
00:26:43
an agenda that does not benefit Silicon
00:26:45
Valley at all well and if you want to
00:26:48
understand why people are coming to your
00:26:49
fundraiser tonight if you put all this
00:26:51
together it doesn't take a genius to
00:26:53
figure out that if you're a venture
00:26:54
capitalist or an entrepreneur and you
00:26:56
want to see m&a and you want to see
00:26:57
entrepreneurship and you want to see
00:26:58
your companies Thrive you want to see
00:27:00
your employees get rich and have options
00:27:02
Biden is basically handing the election
00:27:04
to Trump it's like he's doing everything
00:27:06
he can to basically alienate Silicon
00:27:09
Valley so and capitalism and you're
00:27:11
exactly right and Innovation I wouldn't
00:27:12
even say it's Silicon Valley it's like
00:27:14
if you're going to go and build things
00:27:17
that are at the bleeding edge yeah you
00:27:19
know the government used to be the the
00:27:20
most critical supporter of that right if
00:27:23
you think about space or defense these
00:27:25
are areas the internet itself the
00:27:28
government was the partner of Private
00:27:29
Industry to make sure that there was no
00:27:31
regulation and that like really really
00:27:34
looking Innovation could happen that's
00:27:36
should be their role and this speaks to
00:27:39
this Dell versus acceleration movement
00:27:42
that we see here in Silicon Valley and
00:27:44
this is what we see in Texas Florida UAE
00:27:48
Riad DOA there are places in the world
00:27:51
Singapore where people are accelerating
00:27:53
Innovation and this is what humans want
00:27:56
not just entrepreneurs not just venture
00:27:58
Capital all of us want to see an
00:27:59
acceleration of innovation everybody
00:28:02
wants to see prosperity and if you put
00:28:04
yourself up as the Dell candidate we're
00:28:07
not going to allow m&a we're going to
00:28:08
screw with options we're going to do all
00:28:09
this stuff people just not going to vote
00:28:11
for you and people want crypto legal so
00:28:13
take the memo I mean this I mean the
00:28:15
fact that the Democrats can't field a
00:28:17
candidate that aligns with the what
00:28:21
Humanity wants is absolutely
00:28:24
mindboggling this is why I think Biden's
00:28:25
getting hot swapped this month you heard
00:28:27
it your first
00:28:28
he's got no Gavin is going to be running
00:28:31
for president it's going to be Trump and
00:28:33
Gavin they are hop swapping Biden after
00:28:35
this first debate Biden is going to get
00:28:37
demolished by Trump of the debate it's
00:28:39
going to be elder abuse he's getting
00:28:41
wiped out and hot swapped you heard it
00:28:42
here first well there's a lot of lot of
00:28:45
conspiracy theorists online who agree
00:28:47
with you a lot of TI hat speculation
00:28:50
that he's gonna get Switcheroo hot swap
00:28:53
but look I mean I think you make the
00:28:54
correct point which is you know I didn't
00:28:57
really think about it this way but
00:28:58
you're right Biden is the Del candidate
00:29:00
and nobody wants that also Trump has
00:29:03
shown a learning curve where he recently
00:29:05
has been saying positive things about
00:29:07
crypto Y and he's always I think been
00:29:09
more Pro economic growth he was a real
00:29:11
estate developer from the private sector
00:29:13
he actually understands the
00:29:14
economy so there's no question that he
00:29:17
would be more pro-innovation much more
00:29:19
Pro Innovation than Biden and to your
00:29:22
point about this is one of the reasons
00:29:23
why people are coming to the fundraiser
00:29:25
I had someone from the campaign said
00:29:27
something very interesting to me
00:29:28
she said that we've never seen this many
00:29:30
new donors yes at an event before so
00:29:34
we're turning out the new donors for
00:29:37
this reason yes and you know we're not
00:29:39
going to be intimidated by people
00:29:40
calling us names you know it's like look
00:29:43
in any normal election people in an
00:29:46
industry would vote for the candidate
00:29:49
who they see as most aligned yes with
00:29:53
what is good for them their families
00:29:55
their industry if you made a list let's
00:29:57
just make the list here right now now
00:29:59
make the list of things Trump is in
00:30:01
support of right and Republicans are in
00:30:03
support of right now they're going to be
00:30:04
proa they're going to be Pro crypto
00:30:07
they're going to be Pro less taxes
00:30:08
they're going to be Pro Law and Order
00:30:10
you know what that's where I align those
00:30:12
are the things I want so if you just
00:30:14
list the issues for me despite how I
00:30:17
might feel about Trump and some of the
00:30:18
things he's done he checks off all my
00:30:20
boxes he checks off all my boxes and I
00:30:23
think that's what's happening here and
00:30:25
you know people were scared to come out
00:30:26
and say this person backs off all my
00:30:28
boxes the Democrats need to realize
00:30:30
they're out of sync with America they're
00:30:31
out of sync with powerful people in
00:30:33
America especially the donor base
00:30:35
they're the Del Cel candidate party now
00:30:38
and they just have to flip this thinking
00:30:40
they're going to get demolished it is
00:30:42
going to be a landslide at this point
00:30:44
people want jobs and prosperity from
00:30:47
your lips to God's
00:30:48
ears do the hot swap I
00:30:51
mean I don't really have a lot more to
00:30:53
say I I think a great point take the win
00:30:56
I mean and and crypto is such an obvious
00:30:59
win and you know what Trump's anti-
00:31:02
right now he's been wailing on EVS I
00:31:04
guarantee you that's the next thing I
00:31:05
bet you next week he comes out next week
00:31:08
within the next two weeks here's my
00:31:10
prediction Trump says you know what eeve
00:31:11
is not so bad remember he's been saying
00:31:14
EVS nobody wants these things we're
00:31:15
subsidizing I bet you next week or maybe
00:31:17
in 30 days I'm making a prediction here
00:31:20
you Bank the prediction in 30 days Trump
00:31:22
comes out magically in support of EVS
00:31:25
well I think that his point is I he
00:31:27
shouldn't be forced to by EVS I mean I
00:31:29
don't I don't think he's against them
00:31:32
per se I think he's against people being
00:31:33
forced look I think that what the new
00:31:36
Administration hopefully or what Trump
00:31:38
should propose is effectively a modus
00:31:40
vendi with big Tech where the point is
00:31:44
that if you stop censoring our people if
00:31:46
you stop censoring conservatives if you
00:31:48
restore the civil liberties of the
00:31:50
average American to say what they want
00:31:52
online to basically Bank online to stop
00:31:56
essentially deplatforming and censoring
00:31:58
people then we will let you innovate
00:32:00
we'll let you do m&a we'll let you get
00:32:02
back to business that basically is the
00:32:05
basis for a peace agreement between big
00:32:07
Tech and the Republican party yeah and
00:32:10
by the way I'd say in the
00:32:13
next 30 to 60 days you're going to see
00:32:16
10 incredibly high-profile people come
00:32:18
out and support of trump if Biden isn't
00:32:19
swapped out and when I say high-profile
00:32:21
I have the inside line on this extremely
00:32:23
high-profile people not just Doug Leone
00:32:25
not just David Saxon cha it is is going
00:32:28
to be about 10 high-profile people who
00:32:30
are much higher profile respectfully
00:32:32
than jamath and Sachs and Doug Leone so
00:32:34
just wait for it folks uh you cannot be
00:32:36
a deist in you know this world let's
00:32:39
keep moving roaring kitty aka Keith Gil
00:32:42
just disclosed a NF figure position in
00:32:44
GameStop yes we're back to where this
00:32:47
podcast started we're talking about
00:32:49
GameStop and SS as crazy as it is and a
00:32:52
ER trade is considering suspending his
00:32:55
account this is going to take a little
00:32:56
bit of background I apologize here I
00:32:57
don't
00:32:58
to deplatforming him here we go again
00:33:00
quick
00:33:01
background you remember the first
00:33:05
basically viral moment for this podcast
00:33:07
this AI moment I remember I was in Taho
00:33:08
skiing was the GameStop Saga back in
00:33:11
2021 thousands of retail investors
00:33:14
following this individual Keith
00:33:16
gild were posting in this subreddit
00:33:20
called Wall Street bets if you're not
00:33:21
familiar and they created a massive
00:33:23
short squeeze and they sent the stock
00:33:25
flying Robin Hood halted the trading
00:33:26
remember Vlad came on that went all went
00:33:28
crazy uh we covered that all and then
00:33:31
Keith Gil went silent for the past three
00:33:33
years on Twitter and Reddit he said
00:33:34
nothing then on May 12th he posted this
00:33:37
meme on X which has been viewed 28
00:33:41
million times now if you don't know this
00:33:44
meme this is the lean forward meme when
00:33:47
you got a game controller in your hand
00:33:48
it is a way to Signal like Hey we're
00:33:50
getting to the boss level it's going to
00:33:53
get exciting here's your GameStop chart
00:33:55
folks you see that first Peak that's
00:33:57
when we were reported on it back in 2021
00:33:59
and here we go again it just had the
00:34:00
slow ride down for 3 years and [ __ ]
00:34:03
popped up again so gamestock stock
00:34:07
tripled at the posting of that meem why
00:34:09
is this important well uh he has a huge
00:34:13
position he increased it from 200,000
00:34:16
shares basically to 5 million had
00:34:18
120,000 call options shth will'll
00:34:20
comment on all this in a
00:34:21
moment if he exercised all these calls
00:34:24
skill could own an additional 12 million
00:34:26
shares here's G Gensler who was on CNBC
00:34:29
Wednesday trying
00:34:31
to like calm the markets down and or try
00:34:34
to get control of this craziness here's
00:34:36
the clip I say to you look I want to put
00:34:38
up a a a I want to put up a a cryptogram
00:34:42
and it's of a chair leaning up which we
00:34:44
know from video game playing means come
00:34:46
on this is the ninth inning get ready
00:34:49
and we know that I'm a person who
00:34:51
happens to like the stock of GameStop
00:34:53
this is the single come on get ready is
00:34:56
this something hypo ically that is that
00:34:58
the SEC should worry about so look again
00:35:01
it's not so hypothetical because you're
00:35:03
describing things that are in the public
00:35:06
domain and and the public is is uh you
00:35:09
know interested in so but generally
00:35:12
speaking you have to make sure that you
00:35:15
don't mislead the public and that you
00:35:17
don't in any way do things in the
00:35:20
markets that may
00:35:22
be manipulative or
00:35:26
misleading and so that the key thing in
00:35:28
our Capital Market no the key thing is
00:35:30
if you can cure it with disclosure this
00:35:32
is brandise you know if they disclose it
00:35:35
this is something that they are called
00:35:37
action then you can't go after them
00:35:39
disclosure is one really key part of our
00:35:42
Capital markets when you buy the stock
00:35:44
of a company you expect that they give
00:35:46
you full and fair disclosure that's by
00:35:49
the way not what you're getting right
00:35:51
now in this crypto field so I just you
00:35:53
know cautionary tail there that
00:35:57
disclosure
00:35:58
but disclosure doesn't necessarily
00:36:00
protect a bad actor if they're
00:36:03
manipulating a market chth you've been
00:36:06
you've had a lot of comments on the
00:36:07
markets and uh specifically this one uh
00:36:10
over the years what are your thoughts is
00:36:12
posting this meme stock manipulation or
00:36:17
disclosure no it's he's posting a meme
00:36:20
okay thank you he put a picture on the
00:36:22
internet okay I mean the again this is
00:36:26
like the problem that we have which is
00:36:29
that he disclosed his position in a
00:36:32
different way now we don't know whether
00:36:34
that disclosure is accurate because I
00:36:35
think it was just a screenshot of like
00:36:37
some statement inside of a Reddit thread
00:36:40
right and then that got posted many
00:36:42
times elsewhere is this accurate I don't
00:36:45
know because he has no obligation as an
00:36:48
individual to do any of this stuff
00:36:51
because he's not running a hedge fund
00:36:53
and he's not running other people's
00:36:54
money now if he was acting in concert
00:36:57
with other people you could say hey hold
00:37:00
on a second if you're repping not just
00:37:02
your money but other people's money and
00:37:04
you did this then there's probably a
00:37:05
disclosure obligation there but at the
00:37:07
end of the day this is a
00:37:09
guy that acted
00:37:14
and basically created
00:37:17
hype and right now the SEC does not have
00:37:22
a framework to deal with that because
00:37:24
the rules that existed didn't understand
00:37:26
social media and whatnot and he's also
00:37:29
not a regulated entity he's just an
00:37:31
individual now if it turns out that he
00:37:34
was selling while he was posting this
00:37:36
stuff and trying to manipulate the
00:37:38
market in some way obviously they could
00:37:40
find issue with
00:37:42
that but just for him being a credible
00:37:46
influencer and
00:37:49
creating momentum for an underlying
00:37:52
position that in and of itself is not
00:37:54
illegal saxs I think we have to go to
00:37:57
judge Sachs here judge Sachs what is
00:37:58
your verdict R meme stock manipulation
00:38:01
judge Sachs no I don't see any
00:38:02
manipulation there I like Jamal said
00:38:05
this posting a meme what you saw gu not
00:38:07
guilty what I see in that clip is Jim
00:38:09
Kramer trying to stir up an SEC
00:38:12
investigation of Keith Gil for what I
00:38:15
mean what exactly has he done here this
00:38:17
is kind of the Wall Street Journal as
00:38:19
well if you look at the Wall Street
00:38:20
Journal today there's an entire article
00:38:22
basically with the headline is what
00:38:24
Keith Gil is doing illegal and I think
00:38:27
you can view this in a different lens
00:38:29
which is here is a an individual that is
00:38:32
totally outside of the establishment
00:38:33
that however he's done it has gotten a
00:38:36
hold of hundreds of millions of dollars
00:38:39
maybe even now billions if the stock
00:38:41
keeps going and I think that that for
00:38:44
the establishment that controls those
00:38:47
pipes very
00:38:49
disconcerting right if he if he was one
00:38:52
of those apex predators on Wall Street
00:38:54
if he was one of those major hedge funds
00:38:56
that donates a lot of of money to the
00:38:58
political Elite in other words if he was
00:39:01
a well-connected political player I
00:39:03
doubt anyone would be asking these
00:39:05
questions freberg you got thoughts on
00:39:07
this Market manipulation or meme ston
00:39:11
fun good times you're buying GameStop
00:39:14
you're buying AMC like buy or beware
00:39:17
you're you're in on the joke what are
00:39:19
your thoughts Nick can you pull up the
00:39:20
image I'm gonna talk about the stupidity
00:39:22
of buying the stock of this company
00:39:25
valuation this is a uh company and and
00:39:28
then I think we can talk about whether
00:39:30
that's even relevant which I think
00:39:32
indication is that it's
00:39:34
not
00:39:36
GameStop finished the
00:39:38
year 2023 fiscal year
00:39:43
with sales of 5.3 billion down from 5.9
00:39:48
billion the year before so sales
00:39:50
declined by 12% in the year adjust
00:39:53
billion in Revenue selling games
00:39:55
adjusted ebit for the year with 65
00:39:58
million and they have about 1.2 billion
00:40:00
in cash currently as of today the market
00:40:04
cap is about 13.5 billion doar so that
00:40:07
makes it about a 125 billion do
00:40:09
Enterprise Value 12 A5 billion divided
00:40:12
by 65 million of ibata means that this
00:40:15
stock is currently trading at about 192
00:40:18
times IA a business that is profitable
00:40:21
and you can say that the profits are
00:40:23
stable and predictable and it's likely
00:40:25
not going to grow very much well
00:40:27
typically trade for 7 to 12 times IA and
00:40:30
the stock is trading at 192 times IA and
00:40:32
the revenue is declining 12% a year so
00:40:35
I'll just point out like I don't think
00:40:37
that there's anything about the actual
00:40:39
performance of the underlying business
00:40:41
and the security that you are buying or
00:40:42
selling when you were making a decision
00:40:44
about whether or not to buy or sell this
00:40:45
security and I think that that's the
00:40:47
real question does that even matter
00:40:49
clearly it doesn't let people have fun
00:40:52
let them go to Vegas let them play in
00:40:54
the roulette table they know what
00:40:56
they're getting into the disclosures are
00:40:57
all there all the SEC filings are there
00:41:00
all the financials of this business are
00:41:01
there what you're actually buying is
00:41:03
publicly viewable you can look at it you
00:41:05
can make an investment decision as an
00:41:07
individual investor and Trader and you
00:41:10
want to blow your money trying to see
00:41:12
when the social trends are going to
00:41:13
shift one way or another let it be your
00:41:15
decision I think this is well said if
00:41:18
you're buying nfts if you're buying
00:41:21
stonks like this if you're playing poker
00:41:23
in a if you're playing bomb pots look it
00:41:25
up folks if you don't know what bomb
00:41:26
pots are and you're going crazy playing
00:41:29
bomb pots for eight hours like we did
00:41:30
the other week you're there to gamble if
00:41:33
you are playing bomb Pots if this is the
00:41:36
bomb pots of the stock market have fun
00:41:39
go crazy if you're buying nfts if you're
00:41:41
buying crypto and token you know what
00:41:44
you're getting into there's no law
00:41:46
there's no law that defines why you
00:41:49
should or should not buy a security with
00:41:51
respect to the diligence you have
00:41:53
individually done to determine whether
00:41:55
the underlying business is worth the
00:41:57
price you're paying yes the law says
00:41:59
that the businesses that are listing
00:42:01
their Securities for public trading have
00:42:03
an obligation to make disclosures on
00:42:04
their financials and any other material
00:42:06
events to the public and they do that
00:42:08
through the SEC filing process that's
00:42:10
all out there and then what you as an
00:42:11
individual will do with it is up to you
00:42:13
enough with the nanny State go ahead sax
00:42:16
so when's the right time to put a short
00:42:17
on this company by the way inv advice
00:42:21
the stock is up the stock is up 40%
00:42:24
today and then there's these reports
00:42:25
that came out yesterday on a bunch very
00:42:27
big hedge funds that put very big short
00:42:29
positions yesterday on the stock and
00:42:31
it's up 40% today so they're all going
00:42:33
to get margin called so this is where
00:42:35
you see the same thing that happened
00:42:36
last time where what was that guy's name
00:42:38
the the capital uh
00:42:42
Melvin PL G plot got blown out gonna get
00:42:47
blown out on the wrong side of the
00:42:48
you're gonna get Plotkin you're about to
00:42:50
get
00:42:52
Plotkin don't get plen in a sarami yeah
00:42:56
that's what you don't want to do because
00:42:57
you could lose it all in a Sac rucci or
00:42:59
it's basically a game where you know the
00:43:01
redditors are they bid up they bid up
00:43:04
the stock yes to levels that re
00:43:07
realistically it's not worth that much
00:43:09
but it puts a big it basically creates a
00:43:11
short squeeze so the stock flies up yeah
00:43:15
then the hedge funds know it's
00:43:17
overvalued so they Bas put new shorts on
00:43:20
and then they do the next shorts and
00:43:21
they'll do something that's even more
00:43:23
dangerous which is they can get
00:43:24
synthetically short so they'll they'll
00:43:26
add leverage to this using all kinds of
00:43:29
esoteric derivatives that other banks on
00:43:31
Wall Street will happily sell them and
00:43:33
then when those are disclosed then the
00:43:35
redditors can just pump it even more
00:43:37
which causes massive margin calls so I
00:43:40
think the thing that freeberg you're
00:43:41
saying though this is this existential
00:43:43
thing that comes back it's happened in
00:43:45
nfts it's happened in the Doom bubble it
00:43:47
happened in spaxs it's happened in
00:43:49
crypto are we supposed to protect
00:43:52
people and then the question is who is
00:43:55
the Wii and are you supposed to say if
00:43:58
you're an adult and you can read then
00:44:00
read the disclosures and you're on your
00:44:02
own that's what the SEC says and that's
00:44:04
what the rule of law has been and so
00:44:06
this is going to be an interesting test
00:44:07
because instead of an organization it's
00:44:10
going to be a person in this case Keith
00:44:13
Gill who will be the face of what
00:44:14
happens to the stock because if a bunch
00:44:16
of people all of a sudden plow into this
00:44:18
thing and then it goes to five it'll be
00:44:21
really interesting to see the reaction
00:44:23
hey you should have saved us how could
00:44:24
this happen you know he dumped this on
00:44:27
all of us and the answer is no he did
00:44:28
not where was the government to save our
00:44:30
day where was the government to protect
00:44:32
consumers that's with the nanny State
00:44:34
that's the next cycle of the story the
00:44:35
next cycle of the story is
00:44:37
the and you showed how the government
00:44:40
protected everybody which was you showed
00:44:41
the revenue and the profits and the
00:44:43
margins which is publicly available and
00:44:45
you did it in two minutes I mean anybody
00:44:48
anybody can look at your analysis and
00:44:50
and see you didn't even use a
00:44:52
sophisticated model you used probably
00:44:53
the calculator app on your freaking Mac
00:44:55
to figure out that it was
00:44:59
back envelope no no no I'm sure he used
00:45:02
the calculator app so
00:45:05
you the whole point is you can figure
00:45:07
out that there's no logical
00:45:08
justification for this company using one
00:45:11
Google search and the calculator app on
00:45:13
your Mac yeah it's on you I think the
00:45:16
question is should we make all sports
00:45:18
betting legal and all online casinos
00:45:20
legal so if you follow this to its
00:45:21
natural conclusion let people do what
00:45:24
they want why are all of the other
00:45:25
gambling Industries so tightly regulated
00:45:28
I think there's aumers I think there's a
00:45:30
big difference well because we need a
00:45:31
stock market we need we need the ability
00:45:33
for companies to go public it just so
00:45:36
happens that you can get this weird
00:45:38
effect where some stocks can become meme
00:45:40
stocks but but that doesn't mean you
00:45:42
want to design the
00:45:44
entire system of Securities laws around
00:45:48
one or two meme stocks the fact of
00:45:50
matter is that investors are
00:45:52
sufficiently protected by robust
00:45:55
disclosure requirements
00:45:57
that apparently GameStop has followed
00:46:00
all that information is out there you
00:46:02
basically dismantled the company in like
00:46:04
2 minutes so anyone watching this show
00:46:06
has all the information they need not to
00:46:08
buy this stock at 190 times earnings
00:46:12
okay if they choose to follow that
00:46:15
information yeah the other thing that
00:46:17
you're saying which is really important
00:46:18
is you have to remember what the capital
00:46:20
markets and the stock market is there
00:46:21
for it's not meant for this this is a
00:46:24
small little culdesac but the over
00:46:27
whelming majority of the capital markets
00:46:28
and the equity markets is to allocate
00:46:30
excess Capital to good ideas that's what
00:46:33
is usually happening there's a bunch of
00:46:35
us that will put a bunch of our money
00:46:38
into things because we think it's the
00:46:39
right thing to do and that is the
00:46:41
overwhelming majority of what is
00:46:43
happening in the stock market every day
00:46:45
and David's right every now and then one
00:46:46
of these things randomly comes up and
00:46:49
every period of time there'll be a few
00:46:52
parts of the market that go crazy but
00:46:54
the reality is that's not what the
00:46:55
overwhelming majority of of the actions
00:46:58
and that's not why the security are
00:46:59
there have you guys seen this guy his
00:47:01
name is Tim nackie on Instagram so what
00:47:04
this guy did this guy's incredible so
00:47:06
this guy went out and he basically bet
00:47:09
10 cents in online Blackjack because
00:47:11
he's legally allowed to do it where he
00:47:12
lives I think he's in Australia or
00:47:14
something oh yeah that's 10 cents for
00:47:16
every follower he has on Instagram so
00:47:18
over the last couple of months he's been
00:47:19
yeah he's been ra racking and racking up
00:47:21
the bets and he ended up doing these
00:47:23
$100,000 plus bets because he got to
00:47:25
over a million followers he ran this
00:47:27
thing up to over a million bucks and he
00:47:28
quit but it's it's now he's formed like
00:47:30
a blackjack Syndicate so everyone wants
00:47:32
to kind of Pile in and bet with him I
00:47:34
think that there's this really
00:47:35
interesting phenomenon of like social
00:47:36
betting everyone wants to be in a group
00:47:38
together he's got hundreds of thousands
00:47:40
of people that have put money in this is
00:47:41
so great and then he goes and does this
00:47:43
online gam like Nick pull the video up I
00:47:44
just sent you watch how this guy and
00:47:46
he's so entertaining he's awesome oh man
00:47:48
sa this this could be deadly for saaks
00:47:50
saaks didn't know about this 78
00:47:52
Blackjack and 10 Instagram follow I've
00:47:55
God there are 94 ,000 of your weapons
00:47:57
with us now so a $94,000 bet coming
00:48:00
right up all righty ladies and gentlemen
00:48:03
we have a
00:48:05
$94,000 going on the line for the
00:48:07
940,000 of your weapons with us 90 on
00:48:10
the butt 2K each of the side bets this
00:48:12
blug definitely gloves up both hands on
00:48:14
the golf course never has a black stood
00:48:17
down such an impact on my life I'm not
00:48:19
healthy FAL gross seven versus six ah
00:48:23
that might be a double down that might
00:48:26
be
00:48:28
I'll take three that's a double down
00:48:31
that's a double down that's a double
00:48:33
down damn you go te for me here of
00:48:36
course we're counting C 18 we'll take
00:48:38
the we will take the
00:48:41
godamn to these pting Lords a glorious
00:48:44
day for the 10 with the 10 10 on can I
00:48:47
get the job done again that'll
00:48:52
go little
00:48:56
will see you tomorrow you smug son of a
00:49:00
oh my God this is so great this guy is
00:49:03
so good SX do you know about this that's
00:49:05
some serious degeneracy it looks so fun
00:49:09
though all in Syndicate let's go one
00:49:13
hand a day there's only one a day oh my
00:49:15
God and every day his follower account
00:49:17
goes up so every day he bets more and
00:49:19
then your follow and he ran this thing
00:49:20
up to a million of profit oh so good I
00:49:22
haven't seen sax this awake during the
00:49:24
Pod you don't get the 10 cents he keeps
00:49:26
it
00:49:27
he started this just by betting his own
00:49:29
money and he would put 10 cents down
00:49:30
every day for how many followers he had
00:49:32
and so he he started betting more and
00:49:34
more of his own
00:49:35
money account that he can is it still
00:49:38
all of his money that he's betting so
00:49:39
then as of a few weeks ago or like a two
00:49:41
weeks ago he stopped betting his own
00:49:43
money he took the million off the table
00:49:44
he called it a day and he set up a
00:49:45
Syndicate and now people send their own
00:49:47
money in and now he's betting the
00:49:48
syndicates money I love and so everyone
00:49:50
Tunes in and he does one hand a day and
00:49:52
he keeps racking this thing up it's just
00:49:55
what happens when he loses is there a
00:49:56
day where he's lost a lot of money oh
00:49:57
dude you got to watch it good loser
00:49:59
video it's so funny I want to see what
00:50:01
happens when he loses like a b wait can
00:50:02
we hit this guy at the all-in summit
00:50:04
plays online blackjack right so there's
00:50:07
always like a fake dealer and he has all
00:50:09
this hilarious commentary on fake dealer
00:50:11
what they look like set up an account at
00:50:13
bpn right now I'll be honest with you
00:50:15
this may get me back on
00:50:17
Instagram this is so juicy oh we should
00:50:21
get this guy out to the summit this
00:50:22
guy's got to come to the summit and do a
00:50:24
live hand with Mr big big shout out is
00:50:26
he on Tik Tok or no just in I think he
00:50:28
only does insta Yeah Tim NE I haven't
00:50:30
seen saak listen to freeberg on this
00:50:33
podcast more than he just did that was
00:50:35
incredible you got Sax's attention saak
00:50:38
did you know you could play live online
00:50:40
Blackjack from your phone did you know
00:50:42
this did not did not know that this is
00:50:45
important information for all of us big
00:50:47
day coming up there is 514 th000 of you
00:50:50
in here now and a
00:50:51
$1,400 beit coming up all right day 60 a
00:50:55
Monumental day we can hit the the 50k
00:50:57
button here we will do $50,000 on the
00:51:00
button we'll go $800 on the 21 + 3 $600
00:51:05
on the perfect Piers this is by far and
00:51:08
away the biggest bit I have put on a
00:51:10
table in my life we're trying to itch
00:51:12
ourselves into gambling immortality 14
00:51:15
Place three no oh it's a disgusting pull
00:51:20
on day 60 with all the marbles on the
00:51:22
line we will stand and look for 10 T and
00:51:26
bus TNT and bust TNT and bust come on
00:51:30
the heroics to be a hero go yes yes yes
00:51:34
day 60 stick that in your pipe smoke it
00:51:39
holy pulled it off oh my God we've
00:51:43
broken the push streak with the
00:51:45
Adventures of Tintin and you better
00:51:47
believe that means I'll see you tomorrow
00:51:49
and I'll be bidding even more this guy's
00:51:52
got great energy can he do one live on
00:51:53
the show next week oh day 55 oh here we
00:51:56
go
00:51:57
Instagram follower I've got outrageously
00:51:59
there is an extra 21,000 of you in here
00:52:01
today so $3
00:52:02
37,600 bit going on for the 376,000 of
00:52:06
you Legends in here now coming right up
00:52:08
okay day 55 brings about a big godamn we
00:52:12
have
00:52:13
$36,000 on the button 1,000 on the 21
00:52:16
plus 3 and $600 on the perfect pair
00:52:21
37.6k total bits are closed we've just
00:52:23
had a goddamn dealer change we've been
00:52:25
duped here I'm call I'm calling the
00:52:28
commissioner play Oh 12v King oh my God
00:52:34
before I before I hit the hit button I
00:52:36
will say this having talked to the
00:52:38
morning Rumble this morning uh last time
00:52:40
I spoke to the media about this journey
00:52:43
I I broke a sixday winning streak that
00:52:44
day and I lost so if it happens again
00:52:46
today this one's on Roger fary we need
00:52:49
to see 8 or9 go low no oh my God come on
00:52:54
that dealer CH so dirty I guess you just
00:52:57
can't win them all but we've been on and
00:53:00
I will see you tomorrow when we'll be
00:53:03
bidding even more that dealer change was
00:53:05
so dirty you saw the dealer change at
00:53:06
the last minute he came up and they
00:53:08
changed the dealer they theyve done that
00:53:09
to me before I've been with you when
00:53:11
they've done that ice they do that every
00:53:13
time with you when you start running it
00:53:14
up they send in the dealer to ice you I
00:53:16
think there's a particular dealer
00:53:18
they've got you know they do they it's
00:53:20
like in the bullpen the blank cooler
00:53:23
yeah we know the one the blank cooler I
00:53:25
don't want to say anything but it's the
00:53:26
cooler we need this guy next week on the
00:53:29
Pod to do the live bet and then we each
00:53:31
give him 5K how about that you guys in
00:53:33
I've had them Trot out the cooler when I
00:53:35
was playing craps once I was so mad and
00:53:38
I was on such a heater and what happens
00:53:41
is you guys have seen me play crabs
00:53:43
where it's like it's all Rhythm right so
00:53:45
it's like I get the dice in a certain
00:53:47
way you know I do and then they bring in
00:53:50
this guy and he was like a clutz it's
00:53:52
like Daniel de Lewis in my left foot all
00:53:55
of a sudden he's everything
00:53:57
over four dice fall off the table I got
00:54:00
so out of
00:54:02
rhythm it was so hor I was so I want
00:54:04
this guy in the Pod next week we're each
00:54:06
putting five dimes in we got 20K from
00:54:08
all in let's do it that would be so much
00:54:11
oh my God we should get him to play a
00:54:12
special Allin hand and let him run up
00:54:15
our capital on the summit let's take the
00:54:17
profits from the summit and do a live
00:54:19
hand we could put like a million bucks
00:54:20
each on it we double up and then we're
00:54:22
done with the Pod we don't have to do a
00:54:24
summit next year really good idea J
00:54:26
really let's do it let's Let It
00:54:28
Roll all right God this is so much
00:54:31
action for us I don't know if we can
00:54:32
continue but there's more stories to
00:54:34
come and just buyer beware I mean if
00:54:37
you're betting on this stuff I mean what
00:54:38
do we have to tell you if you're betting
00:54:40
on GameStop no we don't have to tell you
00:54:42
anything you're an adult you're an adult
00:54:44
right go to your own job well here's
00:54:46
something really interesting put on your
00:54:47
seat belt drive your don't drink and
00:54:51
drive don't use drugs that means like
00:54:53
all of a sudden like we need to govern
00:54:55
how you're not adult hey by the way if
00:54:58
you swim in Cape Cod alone in the deep
00:55:01
water in the kelp bed you might get hit
00:55:02
by a great white shark do whatever you
00:55:04
want and please just take responsibility
00:55:06
for yourself because not our job
00:55:07
absolutely I'm responsible for my
00:55:09
children not you well I mean also it's
00:55:12
it's I just want to ask one question
00:55:13
here is there anything with the short
00:55:15
selling that could there could be more
00:55:16
disclosure on that shth just if the SEC
00:55:18
was going to do something I hear that
00:55:20
bubble up once in a while should should
00:55:21
short sellers be more disclosed I really
00:55:24
think that's a very good idea I do think
00:55:25
that there are some short sellers who
00:55:27
are doing it because they have to hedge
00:55:29
a position that they have but then there
00:55:31
are other short sellers who are doing it
00:55:33
speculatively and there are synthetic
00:55:34
instruments that banks will sell you to
00:55:37
go massively super short that's how you
00:55:39
can get a situation where 140% of the
00:55:42
stock is sold short which does shouldn't
00:55:43
make sense if there's only a 100 shares
00:55:46
of a company how could it be that 140
00:55:48
Shares are sold short it's because you
00:55:49
can have these synthetic explain
00:55:51
synthetic for the audience because I
00:55:52
don't think people know this concept so
00:55:54
there there are ways where if you have
00:55:57
a formal trading relationship with Wall
00:56:00
Street and you you need to be of a
00:56:01
certain size and they go through a
00:56:02
diligence process they give you so you
00:56:05
know I have one called an isda and it's
00:56:07
essentially an account and a framework
00:56:09
that you negotiate with a bank that
00:56:12
allows you to call them and say hey give
00:56:14
me a b or c and other times they'll call
00:56:16
you and say hey I have this really
00:56:18
interesting way to play
00:56:20
XYZ and one of the things that you can
00:56:22
do with them is you can say listen I
00:56:25
want to go super super long or super
00:56:28
super short a theme or a company and
00:56:31
they'll create a contract with between
00:56:33
you and
00:56:34
them that'll allow you to get that kind
00:56:37
of exposure now you're not supposed to
00:56:40
do that on a regular basis nor are you
00:56:42
supposed to lever this up this is
00:56:44
actually what blew up a different hedge
00:56:46
fund called Aros I remember we covered
00:56:49
it and in that I guess what happened was
00:56:53
the gentleman was calling many banks oh
00:56:55
and doing all these things and One Bank
00:56:57
didn't know what the other bank was
00:56:58
doing so all of a sudden there was this
00:57:00
massive synthetic leverage that he was
00:57:03
getting on I think it was news corpse
00:57:05
stock and then they found out then it
00:57:06
was Unwound then he owed a bunch of
00:57:08
money he couldn't pay it the whole thing
00:57:09
shut down the stock market went crazy so
00:57:12
there does need to be that disclosure
00:57:14
but there isn't a rule that says that
00:57:15
and every time somebody tries to
00:57:17
introduce it the broker dealers
00:57:19
basically Lobby and kill it so in a way
00:57:22
it's almost like a parallel universe
00:57:24
where bets are occurring on outcomes in
00:57:26
the stock market that are not tied to
00:57:28
the stocks in the stock market well it
00:57:30
is tied in the sense that ultimately it
00:57:32
all needs to feed back to an actual
00:57:34
physical share and so this is where all
00:57:36
this price Behavior gets further
00:57:38
Amplified I think the point is that
00:57:39
these forms of expressing risk yes can
00:57:42
really amplify what would otherwise
00:57:44
happen so in freeberg example most
00:57:46
people would sit there get the
00:57:48
financials some would maybe say
00:57:51
historically this thing looks like a
00:57:52
short or I wouldn't even buy it at all
00:57:54
right but other people might say well if
00:57:56
I listen to the chairman and I think
00:57:58
about the future maybe I go long that's
00:58:00
a that's a fine thing you can enter the
00:58:02
stock market and do that but all this
00:58:03
other stuff amplifies all these things
00:58:06
to a degree that we're not really used
00:58:07
to and let's be honest the people who
00:58:09
are betting I'll use the word betting
00:58:12
here the people who are betting on these
00:58:13
things are not looking to get a 7%
00:58:16
return or beat the average I mean
00:58:18
they're looking to double their money in
00:58:19
48 hours they know what they're getting
00:58:21
in for they're just walking up to the
00:58:23
roulette table and putting 10K on black
00:58:25
or red and and then clapping and seeing
00:58:27
five Reds in a row and saying oh it's
00:58:29
got to be black next I mean they're pH
00:58:31
hel you with thing this they don't say
00:58:33
that when they lose the no of course not
00:58:35
yeah no no personal ownership here well
00:58:36
here's an interesting thing that's sort
00:58:37
of related a little bit of jurisdiction
00:58:40
shopping or placing of companies and
00:58:44
products continues and Texas is very hot
00:58:47
in this regard Black Rock and Citadel
00:58:49
are backing New Stock A New Stock
00:58:51
Exchange to take on uh the New York
00:58:53
Stock Exchange and the NASDAQ duopoly so
00:58:55
of to the Wall Street Journal The
00:58:57
Exchange would be based in Texas and
00:58:58
called the Texas Stock Exchange or the
00:59:01
txse they've raised 120 million so far
00:59:03
it seems like a low number and the
00:59:05
general pitch here is the New York Stock
00:59:07
Exchange in NASDAQ have become expensive
00:59:10
and they've been increasing their
00:59:12
compliance cost NASDAQ has a new Bard
00:59:15
diversity Target that went into effect
00:59:17
at the start of this year all the Dei
00:59:19
stuff and so this exchange is pitching
00:59:21
itself as a CEO friendly and the
00:59:24
anti-woke exchange so here the plan
00:59:26
timeline file an SEC registration docs
00:59:28
later this year start facilitating
00:59:30
trades next year host the First new
00:59:32
listing in 2026 interesting I guess that
00:59:35
Citadel and black rock are in this group
00:59:37
because they could bring a lot of
00:59:38
business obviously and you know some of
00:59:40
this other stuff that's been going on
00:59:42
with Texas Texas is now Tesla's
00:59:44
corporate headquarters they moved it
00:59:45
from paloalto and California to Texas in
00:59:47
in
00:59:48
2021 your thoughts here chth on
00:59:51
moving okay why why do you love it so
00:59:53
much chth tell me competition
00:59:58
I do think that it's hard right now for
01:00:01
companies to get access to Capital I
01:00:03
think more diverse and more flexible
01:00:07
ways where smart investors can allocate
01:00:10
their money into the ideas that they
01:00:11
want are better I think that the duopoly
01:00:15
hasn't created enough competition so the
01:00:17
NASDAQ and and New York Stock Exchange
01:00:20
haven't innovated and in fact they
01:00:22
they've probably been a little
01:00:24
regressive in terms of filing
01:00:26
requirements listing requirements in
01:00:28
terms of board composition they've
01:00:31
fallen for a bunch of things that don't
01:00:33
actually point to the economic rationale
01:00:36
or value in a
01:00:38
company and so I think if you have a
01:00:40
third player there's a chance that more
01:00:42
competition will create more rational
01:00:44
Behavior which will flow into the
01:00:46
companies themselves so I'm a huge fan
01:00:49
of this I I think that the the stock
01:00:51
exchanges right now are too brittle
01:00:54
because and there's and that reason is
01:00:56
because there's only two of them freberg
01:00:58
any thoughts for you about
01:00:59
more options for I think part of
01:01:03
actually there's been
01:01:05
these rules imposed by NASDAQ and New
01:01:09
York Stock
01:01:11
Exchange that have tried to enforce upon
01:01:14
the listed companies rules and
01:01:17
regulations that are not tied to
01:01:18
Securities laws including some of these
01:01:22
aspects of diversity of your board and I
01:01:24
know that there have been a lot of
01:01:25
public company board
01:01:27
members and CEOs that have quietly tried
01:01:31
to push back on these rules that they're
01:01:33
imposing social systems upon you know
01:01:36
what is effectively a regulated exchange
01:01:39
and so there's certainly like an
01:01:40
interest and a pushing for a a
01:01:42
competitive Marketplace for exchanges
01:01:44
there was a survey done recently that
01:01:46
showed I got to find some of this data
01:01:47
but it showed the cost of going public
01:01:50
on NASDAQ MX or the New York Stock
01:01:53
Exchange was about $7.4 million cost of
01:01:56
going public through an over-the-counter
01:01:57
bulletin board listing service was about
01:01:59
$2 million and then there's these
01:02:02
additional kind of rules that are being
01:02:03
imposed if you want to be listed on the
01:02:05
big boards so clearly there's interest
01:02:07
and it's great to see a competitive
01:02:09
market emerge you know how there have by
01:02:11
the way there have been other attempts
01:02:13
there's that long-term Stock Exchange
01:02:14
you guys remember that a couple years
01:02:16
ago that was me to incentivize long-term
01:02:19
Holdings there was two other Equity
01:02:22
security exchanges efforts made in the
01:02:24
last couple years that didn't take off
01:02:25
so this isn't super novel in terms of
01:02:28
like seeing a new Challenger exchange
01:02:30
step up but I think more competition is
01:02:33
always better all right in other news
01:02:35
apple and open AI have reportedly struck
01:02:37
an iPhone deal according to Bloomberg
01:02:39
apple is going to announce a major
01:02:41
partnership with open AI at WWDC next
01:02:43
week chat GPT will be integrated into
01:02:45
iOS which means apple is outsourcing its
01:02:48
AI chat B at least at the start I guess
01:02:51
you could argue it benefits both sides
01:02:53
because open a gets access to over a
01:02:55
billion phone users and apple gets a
01:02:56
native integration of a top tier
01:02:59
language model terms are not clear but
01:03:02
most people think this is going to be a
01:03:04
short to midterm deal with Apple
01:03:06
building out its own AI chatbot in the
01:03:08
future but it's just not ready for prime
01:03:10
time right now also plans to make Siri
01:03:12
AI powered and bring AI features to the
01:03:13
Apple ecosystem you have heard that
01:03:16
Apple is going to try to let Siri dive
01:03:19
deeper into Apps I.E if you were
01:03:21
ordering your door Dash or Uber Eats or
01:03:23
an Uber or ayt or whatever it might
01:03:26
actually be able to execute those things
01:03:28
inside of an app interesting line from
01:03:30
the article Apple Executives were
01:03:32
concerned about reputational damage from
01:03:34
a rogue chatbot some people within Apple
01:03:36
have a philosophical aversion to having
01:03:38
a chatbot at all very interesting so
01:03:42
thoughts on this Sachs just getting you
01:03:46
back in the loop here well we kind of
01:03:48
predicted that something like this could
01:03:50
or should happen we said that the big
01:03:52
win for apple and AI would be to make
01:03:55
Siri actually work based on an llm
01:03:59
because Siri just you know its
01:04:01
understanding of language historically
01:04:02
has not been great and that's really
01:04:04
limited the usefulness of it imagine if
01:04:07
Siri worked with the conversational
01:04:09
abilities of chat gbt 40 if it had that
01:04:12
level of semantic understanding if it
01:04:13
could talk to you the way that 40 can
01:04:16
talk to you that would make Siri really
01:04:19
powerful and you know for me siries is a
01:04:22
feature I've turned off because it's so
01:04:23
annoying but oh it sucks right never
01:04:26
works if you give it the power of the
01:04:29
best open AI model and then the speed of
01:04:32
running it natively on the iPhone I
01:04:34
don't know what they're going to do
01:04:35
about that but presumably there are
01:04:36
things they can do to speed it up and
01:04:38
then you give it access to the internal
01:04:42
apis you're using to control apps that
01:04:45
could be really powerful now Siri could
01:04:47
be an agent that you can just tell it to
01:04:50
do things and you know not just ask like
01:04:52
the weather and the time and set alarms
01:04:54
well it's really interesting I think
01:04:56
about this deal chth is Apple is having
01:04:59
a hard time getting people to upgrade
01:05:01
their phones right and people have lost
01:05:03
faith in the stock now you say hey we're
01:05:05
going to put a language model on here
01:05:07
you can make it a local language model
01:05:10
and have it be privacy protected so that
01:05:12
means you need more memory on the phone
01:05:14
you're going to need another chip on the
01:05:15
phone it's going to there's a distinct
01:05:17
reason to upgrade now if you had a
01:05:20
language model on your phone and Siri
01:05:22
was like this super Siri that actually
01:05:24
got stuff done I would upgrade my phone
01:05:26
immediately and right now I skip two or
01:05:28
three generations what are your thoughts
01:05:30
on this as a way to maybe reinvigorate
01:05:32
the iPhone franchise Tom you buy it or
01:05:34
not no the problem is that we don't know
01:05:38
what the right form factor for a super
01:05:41
scaled consumer AI app looks like so
01:05:45
we've all all again I I'm not trying to
01:05:47
be a wet blanket it's just that when you
01:05:48
look at what's building built so far I
01:05:50
think most of the things we've seen are
01:05:54
the friends and mys
01:05:57
spaces of this class of app we haven't
01:06:00
seen the Facebooks and the Instagrams
01:06:02
yet and the reason is because we haven't
01:06:06
experimented and pushed the boundaries
01:06:08
of the form factor so for example in the
01:06:10
first phases of social
01:06:13
networking the idea that you would
01:06:16
collect information about all your
01:06:17
friends and then create something called
01:06:18
a Newsfeed was totally shocking and I
01:06:22
remember when we first released it
01:06:24
people got really upset and then it just
01:06:26
became this de facto why were they upset
01:06:28
about it tell me well it's this idea
01:06:30
that you collected this information and
01:06:32
then you presented it about all of your
01:06:34
friends was disconcerting in as a
01:06:36
feature now if you don't have a Newsfeed
01:06:38
of some kind in your app for many apps
01:06:40
it's DOA right so the same problem
01:06:43
exists today all we've done today is
01:06:45
we've replicated an existing use case
01:06:49
with a slightly better feature here or
01:06:51
there nobody has gone out and said on a
01:06:54
blank canvas
01:06:56
let me completely reimagine how
01:06:58
consumers want value with these things
01:07:01
to enable it and until that happens
01:07:04
we're just wasting time so the idea that
01:07:06
apple with this thousand device is all
01:07:08
of a sudden going to figure out that
01:07:10
this is why you're going to upgrade I
01:07:12
think is pretty speculative and I think
01:07:14
they're going to be disappointed I think
01:07:15
people have realized that four
01:07:18
generations ago was more than enough and
01:07:21
on top of this the stuff that you value
01:07:24
inside the iPhone
01:07:26
is not what you're going to need for AI
01:07:29
so you know spending a trillion billion
01:07:31
dollars on the fourth camera lens is not
01:07:35
going to be what solves this problem and
01:07:37
so you're more likely to have a very
01:07:41
simple earbud that is you know very
01:07:43
inconspicuous and discreetly in your
01:07:45
inner ear well speaking information to
01:07:48
you then you are and with a companion
01:07:50
$500 phone then I think you will be with
01:07:53
a $1,500 you're in the new form factor I
01:07:56
I'm going to take the other side of the
01:07:57
camp I think that because you have this
01:07:59
data on your phone all your iMessages
01:08:02
all your documents all your photos
01:08:03
videos music collection there's a unique
01:08:05
set of data on that phone to make your
01:08:07
personal llm that's going to do
01:08:09
extraordinary things for you because
01:08:10
it's going to watch you and all your
01:08:12
behavior on that phone and man if I
01:08:14
could have a personal llm that's been
01:08:15
watching me order very specific sushi
01:08:18
rolls or you know where I set my Ubers
01:08:20
what type of Ubers I like what music I
01:08:22
play I feel like that llm to my point is
01:08:26
you don't need a $1,500 device to do
01:08:27
that so if you spend $5 data set is so
01:08:31
cool don't you data is Uber has the data
01:08:34
door Dash has the data Apple has you're
01:08:36
missing my point the data of me clicking
01:08:38
on the screen that patter that is not
01:08:40
Apple's to collect it's not they're not
01:08:42
I it is I think they'll collect it put
01:08:44
it in there you have to you would have
01:08:45
to fundamentally change the SDK the idea
01:08:48
then that Apple can take a tax on that
01:08:49
is outrageous I think the whole app
01:08:52
economy would blow up if Apple tried to
01:08:54
do that oh I think it's the opposite I
01:08:55
think the app economy with five you have
01:08:57
this like great thing where I could tell
01:08:58
it order the same thing I ordered on
01:08:59
door Das encourage Apple to try to
01:09:00
change the trims of service and see what
01:09:02
happens okay freeberg your thoughts on
01:09:03
this any thoughts no okay well let's get
01:09:06
to this it's time for science Corner
01:09:08
temperatures in the Atlantic Ocean are
01:09:10
alarmingly high freeberg couple weeks
01:09:13
ago we saw this uh crazy chart on the X
01:09:15
about the Atlantic ocean
01:09:17
temperatures pre Hurricane Katrina right
01:09:19
about now and uh take us through this
01:09:22
because it's very
01:09:23
disconcerting there's not much to talk
01:09:26
about except to highlight this image
01:09:28
which
01:09:29
shows um again we talked about this a
01:09:31
few months ago hot ocean temperatures
01:09:34
Drive hurricane and tropical storm
01:09:36
activity because as the wind the air
01:09:39
above the ocean starts to move the
01:09:42
energy from the ocean gets pulled out
01:09:45
you know like things cool down the water
01:09:46
cools down but that energy actually goes
01:09:48
back into pushing the wind to move
01:09:50
faster and faster and that's how
01:09:52
tropical storms Cyclones and hurricanes
01:09:55
are formed is warm ocean temperatures
01:09:59
and there's been this kind of persistent
01:10:01
warming since last year in the Atlantic
01:10:05
in this particular region where all the
01:10:07
hurricanes form and normally the
01:10:09
hurricane season starts kind of call it
01:10:11
August to October right now we are
01:10:14
seeing temperatures that are so far
01:10:16
beyond what we've seen anytime
01:10:18
historically this image that you're
01:10:20
looking at here actually compares the
01:10:22
ocean temperatures right now in the
01:10:23
Atlantic to where we were at the same
01:10:26
time period in 2005 which was a record
01:10:29
hurricane year obviously with hurricane
01:10:31
Trina right yeah and so their National
01:10:34
Hurricane Center a lot of the
01:10:35
climatologists are forecasting that over
01:10:38
the next couple of months we could see
01:10:40
and should expect to see
01:10:42
probabilistically much larger stronger
01:10:44
bigger more frequent hurricanes than
01:10:46
we've ever seen historically so we'll
01:10:47
see if it plays out just a very small
01:10:49
tidbit of news to share thought it be
01:10:51
worth highlighting not getting a lot of
01:10:53
main mainstream media press atten but
01:10:56
ask to just confirm a couple things for
01:10:58
me because we live in a time where
01:11:00
people are questioning Science And
01:11:02
scientists and we we have institutions
01:11:04
we don't trust whether it's freeletter
01:11:07
agencies in Washington or scientists and
01:11:09
all these papers being written and
01:11:10
everything we're finding out and nobody
01:11:12
trusts anybody and and we're sort of
01:11:14
resetting trust I want to just ask you
01:11:16
as somebody I trust as a scientist
01:11:18
number one global warming temperatures
01:11:21
increasing putting aside you know what
01:11:23
we do about it temperatures in the ocean
01:11:25
it is undeniable or increasing at a rate
01:11:28
that you would describe as concerning am
01:11:30
I correct we have not seen in the modern
01:11:34
era temperatures in the ocean like we're
01:11:36
seeing now that's a fact right so I'm
01:11:39
not I'm not going to do this whole big
01:11:41
prognosis on everything all inone
01:11:43
because I think that's where people feel
01:11:45
like there's rooms for discrediting
01:11:47
things yeah we can be very specific
01:11:49
about things here's an example so this
01:11:51
is the sea surface temperature going
01:11:53
back to 1981 okay and as you can see at
01:11:55
this point in the year and you know the
01:11:57
temperature oscillates because of the
01:11:59
way the the Earth tilts towards the sun
01:12:02
um and so at this point in the year we
01:12:04
are seeing right now sea surface
01:12:07
temperatures that are beyond anything
01:12:08
we've seen historically and it is
01:12:10
continuing to climb so if this does not
01:12:13
taper off or level off we will see
01:12:16
record sea surface temperatures in the
01:12:18
August to October time frame which will
01:12:20
almost certainly push massive hurricane
01:12:23
events out of the Atlantic and they will
01:12:25
find their way towards the Continental
01:12:27
this super clarifying this should not be
01:12:29
controversial to anybody we have
01:12:30
temperature readings in the ocean and
01:12:32
this is simp data it's just simply data
01:12:35
right so you know putting aside what
01:12:36
political party you on and what you
01:12:38
think about gas and oil I will tell you
01:12:39
there's a lot of theory one one of the
01:12:40
theories so there's theories about Alo
01:12:43
there's theories about climate change
01:12:44
contributing to this there's also a
01:12:46
theory about sulfur dioxide that is now
01:12:49
been banned in shipping and cargo
01:12:51
vessels that okay go across the oceans
01:12:54
last year B sulfur dioxide use in the
01:12:57
the fuel that's that's coming out of
01:12:58
these and sulfur dioxide actually
01:13:00
reflects sunlight so as it goes up into
01:13:02
the air into the atmosphere coming out
01:13:04
of these ships it actually blocks and
01:13:06
reflects light so that would make the
01:13:07
oceans cooler and so a lot of folks have
01:13:10
said that over the last couple of
01:13:12
decades we've actually dampened the
01:13:14
temperature and the warming that's
01:13:16
happened on Earth because of all the
01:13:17
sulfur dioxide we've been putting up
01:13:18
into the atmosphere but because sulfur
01:13:20
dioxide causes acid rain
01:13:22
environmentalists have been pushing for
01:13:24
years to ban sulfur dioxide the problem
01:13:27
is with Banning sulfur dioxide you may
01:13:29
have this other side effect which is now
01:13:31
more rapid increased warming got it of
01:13:33
the surface and of the oceans so these
01:13:35
are complex systems and you we should be
01:13:38
delicate with them if you were to give
01:13:41
us a prescription here
01:13:43
freeberg what's like a basic
01:13:45
prescription are we just
01:13:47
experimenting in a way that is not
01:13:50
advisable with you know this ecosystem
01:13:55
and we should just not run the
01:13:57
experiment I think that might be like a
01:13:59
non-political non-charge way to say it
01:14:01
like this experiment is a little bit too
01:14:03
crazy to run on the one planet Earth we
01:14:05
have yeah which experiment the
01:14:07
experiment of doing things that increase
01:14:10
global warming which would be you mean
01:14:13
living well yeah I mean not burning fil
01:14:17
an experiment people are just acting in
01:14:19
their own economic best interest yes and
01:14:21
if that economic best interest increases
01:14:23
temperature so much
01:14:26
you have a fear freeberg that it will
01:14:27
compromise the oceans and and damage
01:14:29
them to a point that would be extremely
01:14:31
concerning is I guess what I'm getting
01:14:32
at there is a reduction in biodiversity
01:14:35
that's under way we can see that like
01:14:36
using data but to chim's
01:14:39
point humans have prioritized the
01:14:43
progression of individuals forward China
01:14:46
had a billion people that came out of
01:14:48
poverty in 30 years yeah and they came
01:14:50
out of poverty because of the
01:14:52
industrialization of the production of
01:14:54
consumable goods
01:14:55
that that population gets to consume
01:14:57
they get access to more calories they
01:14:58
get access to More Foods they get to
01:14:59
have cars they get to have houses all of
01:15:01
that making cement making concrete all
01:15:03
of those things require Industrial
01:15:05
Systems and those Industrial Systems
01:15:08
have a cost that cost is the dollar
01:15:10
economic cost which we're kind of
01:15:11
rationalizing with greater productivity
01:15:13
then there's this whole cost that's
01:15:14
externalized got we understand that yeah
01:15:17
sure so so that's the the tension is
01:15:19
like if you're wealthy if you're a
01:15:20
wealthy Nation if you're the Western
01:15:22
Europe or the United States you get to
01:15:24
stand up and say stop carbon but if
01:15:27
you're the rest of the world you're like
01:15:28
I want to have a home I want to have a
01:15:30
car you want to have the same Evol that
01:15:33
America went through or Europe I want I
01:15:35
I want to progress as a as a person I
01:15:37
want to progress as a society and that's
01:15:39
the tension that makes this a very
01:15:41
difficult problem to resolve which is
01:15:43
how do more of the world get to progress
01:15:46
while being cognizant I'm trying to get
01:15:48
at freeberg I am deeply optimistic so
01:15:50
let me just say this oh yeah because
01:15:52
that's what I'm getting at are you
01:15:53
optimistic or are you pessimistic tell
01:15:54
us I believe strongly that there is a
01:15:58
strong
01:15:59
relationship between the output of
01:16:01
atmospheric carbon and the delar effects
01:16:03
we see in ecosystems okay that is
01:16:05
something I feel like is true from data
01:16:08
I am not however as pessimistic that the
01:16:11
world is going to end in the next decade
01:16:13
or two because I see improvements in
01:16:15
productivity meaning how many units we
01:16:17
get out for every Unit in or how many
01:16:20
units we get out for every unit of
01:16:22
carbon that's emitted and those
01:16:23
productivity meaning better technology
01:16:25
systems are rapidly changing how we make
01:16:28
things and how people are accessing
01:16:30
goods and services and I think that
01:16:32
that's why I am like because I'm a
01:16:33
techno Optimist I'm optimistic about
01:16:36
where things are head are headed and it
01:16:37
is also why I get very angry and upset
01:16:40
about any efforts or attempts to slow
01:16:42
down the adoption of Technology because
01:16:44
these things will pull people forward
01:16:46
and make that happen faster without all
01:16:49
the dilar side effects that we've
01:16:50
unfortunately had to do in the absence
01:16:52
of technology so trath I'll pull you in
01:16:55
here so based on what freeberg is saying
01:16:57
here yes these things are occurring but
01:16:59
the technology and the advances we're
01:17:01
seeing in but one example solar and then
01:17:03
some people might bring up nuclear and
01:17:04
other ones we just had Phil deuts at my
01:17:06
conference this week give a great talk
01:17:08
on this solar is just getting so cheap
01:17:12
batteries are getting so cheap putting
01:17:13
batteries in your home putting solar in
01:17:15
you know and then putting data centers
01:17:17
next to nuclear things this is all
01:17:19
adding up to we can solve this problem
01:17:21
and so you two feel optimistic about
01:17:23
this yeah totally I think that climate
01:17:25
change stalled when it was an emotional
01:17:27
and philosophical rallying cry largely
01:17:31
of the
01:17:32
left when instead it became something
01:17:35
about resilience and domestic
01:17:38
manufacturing both sides came together
01:17:41
and I think we're at a point now where
01:17:45
the US's energy Independence plus the
01:17:48
amount of Reliance on non-carbon based
01:17:51
fuels will drive a sea change in the
01:17:53
United States I think it'll be copied in
01:17:55
Western Europe and it's also going to be
01:17:58
at enough of a low price point where
01:18:00
it'll get embraced in the developing
01:18:02
world so it's a it's an incredible
01:18:05
example of if you want to take an idea
01:18:09
and a bunch of
01:18:11
solutions and want to die on the hill of
01:18:15
messaging and platitudes it'll make no
01:18:18
progress but if instead you're willing
01:18:20
to sort of be less extreme about it and
01:18:23
actually just frame it in economic value
01:18:27
ad all of a sudden everybody Embraces it
01:18:29
and it just becomes obvious so I think
01:18:32
that we're going to do wonders over the
01:18:34
next 20 and 30 and 40 years all over the
01:18:38
world to push back on the General State
01:18:41
of warming but I think it will have
01:18:44
happened because the economic incentives
01:18:46
aligned not because
01:18:49
of an a philosophical or emotional
01:18:52
framing of the issue all right everybody
01:18:54
this has been in a very productive
01:18:56
episode of the number one podcast in the
01:18:58
world the Allin podcast and good luck
01:19:02
tonight gentlemen with your fundraiser I
01:19:04
wish you great luck David Saxon chth po
01:19:06
hopp even if it's not my preferred
01:19:08
candidate that's totally fine we could
01:19:09
all differ and you can have a great
01:19:12
great event tonight good luck I have one
01:19:14
thing okay go ahead Jam I have one more
01:19:16
birthday in my family today making us
01:19:19
all look bad this is one of the most
01:19:22
incredible people in my life
01:19:25
charismatic funny Charming intelligent
01:19:29
it is my bestie David friberg's birthday
01:19:31
today oh it is love you DAV we love you
01:19:35
David we had a nice little h birthday
01:19:37
cake at the liquidity Summit this week
01:19:39
for him I had a had had a cake made
01:19:41
thank you for showing happy birthday and
01:19:43
here we go and and it's also AK-47 Alan
01:19:46
King's birthday today as well another
01:19:48
have the same Love Alan keing is is 45
01:19:52
and one is 47
01:19:54
what here we go it's karma do you know
01:19:59
the significance of that of course he's
01:20:01
going to win all the odd number
01:20:02
elections and there we go here we go I
01:20:04
think it's a sign it's a sign listen I
01:20:07
wish good luck to you all tonight I hope
01:20:09
that uh it goes off well for you for you
01:20:11
gentlemen and listen I would love to
01:20:13
have Trump on the Pod would love to have
01:20:16
Biden on the Pod like all things we just
01:20:17
want to have a great conversation here
01:20:19
we keep it respectful sometimes it gets
01:20:21
a little chippy but we love each other
01:20:23
and we love you the audience for
01:20:24
participating in this don't fall for the
01:20:26
mainstream media's nonsense in trying to
01:20:28
divide and conquer we got important
01:20:30
tasks to do and problems to solve in the
01:20:32
world and the way we do that is through
01:20:34
great conversations hopefully we set a
01:20:36
tone an example for everybody else have
01:20:38
just had to do that we still love each
01:20:39
other and uh we sometimes some elbows
01:20:41
get flown and it's all good chamath
01:20:44
saaks good luck tonight freeberg uh
01:20:47
happy birthday and bye bye we'll see you
01:20:50
all next time on the number one podcast
01:20:53
in the world you all In Pockets tell
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01:20:59
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01:21:02
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01:21:06
David and instead we open source it to
01:21:08
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01:21:10
with Love Queen
01:21:13
[Music]
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of Besties
01:21:21
are this my dog taking
01:21:25
driveway man oh man myit will meet me we
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should all just get a room and just have
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one big hug orgy cuz they're all this
01:21:33
useless it's like this like sexual
01:21:35
tension that they just need to release
01:21:37
[Music]
01:21:43
Som we need to get
01:21:48
[Music]
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merch I'm going on
01:21:55
all right listen thanks to our friends
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wonderful talk by Jenny just and they
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