00:00:00
what was your red pill moment was there
00:00:02
one specific thing or was it more of a
00:00:04
trickle of things it was both right it's
00:00:06
like it starts the wall starts crumbling
00:00:08
and then it comes down all at once so
00:00:10
for me it really
00:00:13
started early in 2013 I started reading
00:00:17
pirate wires and Mike salana and I
00:00:19
thought he was a little crazy at first
00:00:21
because he would write these articles
00:00:23
one he wrote was about how the Ukrainian
00:00:27
soldiers had swastikas on their helmets
00:00:29
and the New York times photographers
00:00:31
would ask them to take the swasa off for
00:00:33
photos and I said that can't be right
00:00:35
that can't be true and then four months
00:00:37
later it was in the New York Times
00:00:39
buried in the middle of the paper and I
00:00:41
kept seeing stories like that that that
00:00:44
he would be early on and so I just
00:00:48
started feeling uncomfortable and Queasy
00:00:50
about what was going on with mainstream
00:00:51
media and then in May of last year of 24
00:00:57
I read some article that talked about
00:00:59
Trump's speech in Charlottesville and
00:01:02
this has been well covered but but where
00:01:04
he said there was good people on both
00:01:06
sides and the article said it was
00:01:10
completely you know propaganda and not
00:01:13
what he actually not accurately
00:01:15
reflecting what he said that uh that he
00:01:17
denounced the Nazis a bunch of times in
00:01:20
his speech and so then I went and
00:01:22
watched that video and that was my red
00:01:24
pill moment I think it was for a lot of
00:01:26
people because it wasn't just the media
00:01:30
spinning it or politicians spinning it
00:01:32
that was like one of the pillars of why
00:01:34
you were supposed to hate Trump was that
00:01:37
speech and and then you
00:01:41
see Biden say that's why he had to run a
00:01:44
second time and you see Obama go to you
00:01:47
even see Biden bring it up again in the
00:01:49
beginning of the DNC and it's one of
00:01:51
their pillars and they clearly know that
00:01:53
they're misrepresenting things so for me
00:01:56
that was just that was beyond
00:01:58
uncomfortable I was just like okay now I
00:02:00
got to go back to First principles and
00:02:02
look at the primary data and listen only
00:02:05
to original speeches by people and I
00:02:08
just realized I couldn't trust
00:02:09
mainstream media so I was I became I
00:02:12
started questioning the Democrats as
00:02:14
soon as I started questioning the
00:02:15
Democrats I started getting a lot of
00:02:19
Shame and anger and hatred oh the other
00:02:21
thing that happened that was part of
00:02:22
this journey is that my chief of staff
00:02:25
parted ways with me after nine years in
00:02:27
April of last year and he was the main
00:02:31
person protecting me from myself on
00:02:32
Twitter and he was the one who would say
00:02:35
stay in your lane nobody wants to hear
00:02:37
what you think about politics or San
00:02:38
Francisco or anything other than you
00:02:41
know your area of products and investing
00:02:44
and with him gone I just started
00:02:46
tweeting whatever I felt and thought and
00:02:49
sometimes I got it wrong or it was a
00:02:51
little too emotional but first of all it
00:02:53
was really fun and then second of all I
00:02:55
found I got connected to this whole new
00:02:58
audience of people people who are these
00:03:00
kind of techno optimists I think you
00:03:02
guys probably talked about
00:03:04
it and that just brought me down this
00:03:09
path that eventually I came out two days
00:03:12
before the
00:03:14
election publicly for Trump um and it
00:03:17
was only because that's when I
00:03:19
completely got there and I was trying to
00:03:21
just be completely honest and authentic
00:03:24
with myself and on Twitter at the same
00:03:27
time and my daughters turned to me that
00:03:30
Sunday and they said you're you're going
00:03:33
to vote for Trump we know it and I said
00:03:35
yeah you're probably right and they said
00:03:36
well then you have to go say it on
00:03:37
Twitter and my daughter's like really in
00:03:40
this with me yeah so anyway and then it
00:03:43
was on the front page of the New York
00:03:45
Post on the day of the election that I
00:03:48
was uh this not that I'm such news but
00:03:51
maybe it was just was their news Peg um
00:03:54
that I was coming out for Trump and but
00:03:58
I'll get back to your re question but
00:03:59
what I love about my New York Times
00:04:02
about my New York friends is that they
00:04:05
did not give a f they were all pro comma
00:04:08
and they texted me and they're just like
00:04:10
oh that's kind of funny but it's one
00:04:13
thing I kind of love about New York they
00:04:14
didn't care back to your question on
00:04:17
Reed what I love about Reed was he was
00:04:20
already getting pings from people saying
00:04:23
what's going on with pinkis he's going
00:04:25
off the rails he's becoming a Trumper
00:04:27
you know it's you guys I'm sure have
00:04:30
gone down got a little bit of that too
00:04:32
about shamas in
00:04:34
freeberg yeah so like what's wrong with
00:04:37
him we got to bring him back into the
00:04:38
fold you know he's he's should we lock
00:04:41
him up is he crazy um and so Reed was
00:04:44
already getting these I had a lot of
00:04:46
anxiety about talking to Reed about it
00:04:49
and finally Reed and I got on
00:04:52
FaceTime and he just said I just want to
00:04:56
start by saying I'm team Mark and I said
00:04:58
I'm team Reed
00:05:00
and it gets out a little you know a but
00:05:03
well no Americans can get along even if
00:05:05
they disagree politically about a
00:05:06
candidate it's probably where we need to
00:05:08
get to especially you know now that
00:05:10
Trump's going to be in office in a
00:05:11
couple of days what was it like when for
00:05:15
Biden yeah okay well just to finish the
00:05:17
read part sorry but what what I love
00:05:20
about Reed is that we followed that with
00:05:22
a 4our dinner and he said I never
00:05:26
questioned your principles he said I
00:05:29
know you're a highly principled person
00:05:32
and I just want to understand which
00:05:33
principles it is and I'd like to
00:05:35
convince you to change your mind but
00:05:37
anyway
00:05:38
so hold on one second
00:05:41
so I you said something almost in
00:05:45
passing but I just want to double click
00:05:48
I think part of what Silicon Valley
00:05:50
actually gets wrong is that we don't
00:05:54
embrace the tism and what I mean by that
00:05:57
is everybody we're all a little socially
00:06:00
uncomfortable we awkward I wouldn't say
00:06:03
that we were the coolest people growing
00:06:05
up and there's this virent form of
00:06:08
blockers you called it Chief of Staff I
00:06:12
think that these folks can be very
00:06:15
detrimental which almost represent this
00:06:18
filter between your true self and
00:06:21
everybody else and there is this game
00:06:23
that's played about being a
00:06:26
gatekeeper I do think that executive
00:06:28
assistants are val valuable
00:06:30
administrative assistance are valuable
00:06:33
the reason I can say this is that my EA
00:06:35
went on maternity
00:06:37
leave I had and I experimented with a
00:06:39
chief of staff Etc and now I use Jason
00:06:42
service called Athena and I have a guy
00:06:45
that works with me in the
00:06:48
Philippines and it's about 3,000 a month
00:06:51
and I can honestly tell you this guy is
00:06:53
the single most effective administrative
00:06:56
support I've ever had and what there is
00:07:00
is all these opinions on what I can say
00:07:01
or do and I think that when you look at
00:07:04
a lot of these big companies if you look
00:07:05
at zuck's current transformation or what
00:07:08
you just spoke about there are all these
00:07:10
Interlopers that seem to get in the
00:07:12
middle of you and people's perception of
00:07:16
you I don't know if you have any
00:07:17
comments or reactions to that idea yeah
00:07:19
it's part of where I know you guys have
00:07:22
talked about Zuck coming out as Lisa's
00:07:24
based or his seemingly more authentic
00:07:27
self or sharing more about himself
00:07:30
and I can relate to it because I think
00:07:34
we all go through this this struggle as
00:07:37
you start to be more of a known person
00:07:41
inside your company outside your company
00:07:43
and you have people around you taking
00:07:47
the edges off and I think that we're now
00:07:51
in this time that I think we're having
00:07:54
authenticity is having a moment now
00:07:57
which is great for me because Reed said
00:07:59
to me I I've if you Google me you'll see
00:08:02
that there's lots and lots of bad things
00:08:04
written about me and a lot of it is my
00:08:08
high school quote was some people have
00:08:10
tacked and others tell the truth and
00:08:12
I've always been kind of just committed
00:08:14
to being honest even if it's nuanced and
00:08:18
it's not an easy sound bite and Reed
00:08:19
said to me early on you need to pick
00:08:22
what the easy narrative is or the Press
00:08:25
is going to make it up for you and he
00:08:27
was right and they did or my competitors
00:08:30
did so I think that now with long form
00:08:34
podcasts and there's just more and the
00:08:38
fact that we can kind of directly in a
00:08:40
lot of ways Elon was the first one to
00:08:42
directly defend himself you remember
00:08:44
when well he fired his do you remember
00:08:45
when he fired his whole PR team he fired
00:08:48
all those people there's just like
00:08:49
there's none of that infrastructure
00:08:51
between him and and everybody else but
00:08:54
do you remember when he would be on
00:08:55
Twitter all the time post PayPal trying
00:08:58
to correct the story
00:09:00
and just write long long diet tribes and
00:09:03
then and then when a New York Times
00:09:05
Reporter said something negative about a
00:09:07
Tesla he just went off for weeks about
00:09:10
them and and it seemed a little crazy
00:09:12
and deranged and then you started to see
00:09:14
that it worked like he actually and we
00:09:16
were told don't defend yourself if
00:09:18
something bad is written about you
00:09:20
you're going to prolong the press cycle
00:09:22
you're going to make the journalist
00:09:26
angry and so we've we're now Unshackled
00:09:29
I teach this class at Stanford and I
00:09:31
taught two backtack on Monday and I
00:09:34
looked around and I saw half the plard
00:09:36
said you know she her you know he him
00:09:40
his and I got a little Pang of like oh
00:09:43
do I have to watch one I'm say I'm like
00:09:44
no I don't I'm Unshackled I'm just gonna
00:09:48
this is just me and I'm gonna be Mark
00:09:51
unfiltered and it's the better version
00:09:53
of our so anyway I I'm glad that Zuck
00:09:56
feels like he can be he can present more
00:09:59
of his complete self out there now and I
00:10:02
think we can get into it later but I
00:10:05
have a lot of thoughts on how the
00:10:07
culture is going to kind of move more
00:10:08
towards base