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[Music]
00:01:15
tool welcome to the best interest
00:01:18
podcast hosted by Jesse Kramer where we
00:01:20
discuss today's best ideas in personal
00:01:22
finance and investing the best interest
00:01:25
is a personal podcast meant for
00:01:27
entertainment purposes only it should
00:01:29
not be Tak as Financial advice and is
00:01:31
not prescriptive of your financial
00:01:33
situation here's your host Jesse
00:01:36
Kramer hey guys welcome to Episode 34 of
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the best interest podcast my name is
00:01:42
Jesse Kramer and my guest today is
00:01:45
Michelle jackon Michelle she is a Serial
00:01:47
entrepreneur a finance blogger and
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podcaster like myself but impressively
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Michelle has turned her projects into a
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thriving full-time career and I think
00:01:57
that is so cool and I think by listening
00:01:59
to her today you'll understand why she
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has such a loyal audience but real quick
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before I introduce Our Guest could you
00:02:07
please pause the show and then in your
00:02:10
podcast app give a rating and review to
00:02:12
the best interest podcast why because
00:02:15
the best interest it's a growing small
00:02:17
business and I want to keep making this
00:02:19
content for people just like you a
00:02:21
rating and a review it lets all those
00:02:24
fancy algorithms know that you care
00:02:26
about this podcast and I know I'm asking
00:02:29
for your time I'm asking for your effort
00:02:32
and I know that you don't owe me
00:02:33
anything so I really appreciate those of
00:02:35
you who decide to sacrifice that time
00:02:37
and effort to leave that rating and
00:02:40
review thank you guys so with that let's
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go meet our
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[Music]
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guest my guest today is Michelle Jackson
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an entrepreneur with with too many
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talents and projects to cover in in just
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this intro we'll get into it in the
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podcast but I first came across Michelle
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from her funny and insightful blog and
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podcast Michelle is money hungry and
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Michelle she also does some fiction
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writing some freelance writing for
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outside clients and coaching for other
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internet Freelancers like me and people
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like Michelle and I'm really excited
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that Michelle is here to share her
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diverse talents and her diverse Thoughts
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with us today on the best interest
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podcast welcome Michelle how are you
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doing I am Fant fantastic thank you so
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much for having me on the show
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absolutely thank you for coming on and
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Michelle it's a fairly standard opening
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question I don't think my listeners are
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sick of it though because they want to
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know about you so could you give us just
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maybe your your three minute elevator
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speech about your your story your
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backstory and specifically how it
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pertains to money oo so uh long story
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short I had a lot of financial issues
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some that were my fault others that
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weren't weren't my fault basically uh my
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mother lost her job and I ended up
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supporting the two of us on Starbucks
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money and student loans I will always be
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grateful to Starbucks quite frankly as a
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result of that ban for life and um
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through the course of going through all
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of
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these painful moments if you will I
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really understood a couple things one
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was that struggling with money sucks
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and the the second thing was I had no
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idea how to get out of it like I was
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really frustrated and when you're in the
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thick of things it's really difficult to
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see how you can get out of it so over a
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course of years um my mom finally was
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able to find another job things got
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better but I still had financial
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problems and it took a really long time
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to relearn my money scripts and my my
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financial
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habits um to become confident with money
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that's something I still work on today
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but during that process of becoming a
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better St of my money paying off over
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$60,000 in unsecured debt not because I
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was shopping and like living the high
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life like a lot of that money was just
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living life I decided to share my story
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and I I decided to share my financial
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story because I thought if this can help
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just one person like literally just one
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person that would make a difference to
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me actually like my struggle and my
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suffering was worth it if I could help
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some other person out and maybe help
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them avoid some of the things that I had
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dealt with or just be aware of the
00:05:44
things that I was dealing with I ended
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up
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in in having this interest I ended up
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becoming like a huge fan of all these
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other bloggers so back in the day when
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blogging was really huge and they were
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calling it blogging
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a lot of the personal finance content
00:06:01
was really personality and story driven
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more so than it is now and I loved
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reading all of the stories that people
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were sharing a lot of people that you're
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probably reading about or following
00:06:14
right now uh listeners of the
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show and I loved hearing how I wasn't
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the only person out there dealing with
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the stuff that I was dealing with maybe
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it was wasn't the same thing but other
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people were dealing with variations of
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supporting a family member or uh
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financially or being the eldest child
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and having these responsibilities on
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them so I fell in love with these
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stories and like really Fang girl about
00:06:45
around it and I discovered that there
00:06:48
was this this uh conference called finc
00:06:53
con and it was in its second year and it
00:06:55
was going to be in my town of Denver but
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it was really weird because I found out
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two weeks before it was going to be here
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and I was like oh my God I have no money
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but I have $100 and I can walk to the
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venue because it was within walking
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distance and they're gonna feed me and
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I'm gonna go and I'm am a very
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gregarious person I'm an extrovert no
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one really remembers me from that first
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year because I I was so like geeked out
00:07:25
because I was meeting all these people
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that I'd read their stories and their
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stories had been really transformative
00:07:31
for me and and just made me feel so seen
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and not alone and I met them and I was
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like this is something I need to do um
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like it it it reaffirmed my um interest
00:07:45
in putting content out there and in the
00:07:47
beginning my work was
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horrible like the like looking at the
00:07:53
blog post and like the how they were
00:07:56
formatted and how random they were and
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oh my God it was just painful but I'm
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really appreciative of that work because
00:08:06
if I hadn't started with that awkward
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awful content I wouldn't be where I'm at
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now winning Awards with my with for my
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content so um that is actually how I got
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into this space I had a financial mess
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everything sucked I fell in love with
00:08:26
the space I always liked money and money
00:08:29
stories though which is actually an
00:08:31
interesting thing so when I went to
00:08:33
college I was initially going to get a
00:08:36
degree in economics if you can believe
00:08:39
that I was literally gonna get a degree
00:08:41
in economics and then I changed my mind
00:08:44
because people kind of teased me about
00:08:45
it and they were like only old white men
00:08:48
do that and ironically only old white
00:08:51
men were my professors in in th in those
00:08:54
classes and so I kind of got like gender
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ashamed and and color shamed a little
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bit into changing my uh degree so I
00:09:04
ended up getting a polysi degree
00:09:05
political science but it's funny now
00:09:09
because I have Masters in public
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administration with the emphasis in
00:09:13
nonprofit organization management I
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never went to non nonprofit space but
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what I realized is all of my interests
00:09:20
that I always had I'm using now I'm
00:09:23
using my degree now in the career that
00:09:25
I've created a lot and I've always used
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it but it it's like there's more than
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one way to do a thing and now I talk
00:09:33
about
00:09:34
policy um I talk about money I and and I
00:09:38
love having Financial conversations
00:09:41
because it's all like sex drugs power
00:09:44
and rock and roll you know and anyone in
00:09:47
the personal finance space who doesn't
00:09:48
think of it that way they need to really
00:09:50
re-evaluate if they should be in the
00:09:52
space because it it it's it's a sexy
00:09:54
crazy place to
00:09:56
be let's go back let's just talk on that
00:09:59
very last thread so you're saying anyone
00:10:01
in the space who doesn't think of this
00:10:03
as a what as a policy is is that what
00:10:06
you're saying or a sex drug rock and
00:10:08
roll conversation yes yes both it's both
00:10:11
it's power it's politics it's um you
00:10:16
know just how sexy you can be so a lot
00:10:21
of times people who get into power they
00:10:23
look good like all the things all the
00:10:26
things and if you don't view it from
00:10:30
that perspective at least a little bit
00:10:32
I'm you're too boring it's too dry yeah
00:10:37
um Power in particular is a big driving
00:10:40
force behind money and policy and impact
00:10:44
and and so I love it I love it I can't
00:10:47
get enough of it and it's a lot of fun
00:10:50
it's like the more I do it especially
00:10:52
now I don't have all that unsecured debt
00:10:54
the more the more I enjoy it so there
00:10:56
you go well I always like I do enjoy
00:10:59
writing about you know policy stuff or
00:11:01
uh kind of big picture economics uh
00:11:04
topics I find those really interesting
00:11:06
and oftentimes you know yeah we can talk
00:11:09
about Personal Finance on the personal
00:11:10
level but if we do zoom out a little bit
00:11:13
we realize how interconnected policy
00:11:16
decisions are to each of our personal
00:11:19
finances whether it's you know tax rates
00:11:21
or student loan laws or any any of that
00:11:24
stuff right it's all connected um
00:11:27
personally I find my readers don't
00:11:29
always find those topics as interesting
00:11:31
as I do
00:11:34
well I mean what what have you found
00:11:36
Michelle I mean do you do you find a way
00:11:37
to spice it up somehow so that people
00:11:39
stay stay engaged or is your reader base
00:11:42
just are they there for the policy
00:11:43
discussions well that's why I have the
00:11:46
podcast like the podcast is there are
00:11:49
certain things that just you need to
00:11:50
talk about it and that's why podcasts or
00:11:53
vlo vlogging quite honestly is a lot
00:11:56
more impactful and and effective and
00:11:59
having those types of
00:12:01
conversations gotcha so let's talk about
00:12:03
that a little bit because you started
00:12:05
off writing well first off you went to
00:12:07
fincon without having a a blog or
00:12:10
anything like that you just went to to
00:12:12
be a fan girl I just showed up I was
00:12:14
like this 100 bucks and they're paying
00:12:15
for lunch okay and and I just have to
00:12:18
walk downtown and okay like it was the
00:12:21
EAS yes that is so and I didn't really
00:12:24
have that $100 like I was broke and but
00:12:27
I was like I can scrape this together
00:12:29
and we we'll make this work so I
00:12:31
did I think that's awesome I think
00:12:33
that's awesome I think it shows your uh
00:12:35
your dedication to the to the subject
00:12:37
matter even if at the time you hadn't
00:12:39
really dove into it yet well I was gonna
00:12:41
meet my Idols right who who were your
00:12:44
idol actually like who were some of the
00:12:46
blogs that you were following most then
00:12:48
even if maybe they're not around today I
00:12:50
can't even tell you because I was
00:12:51
reading so many of them that um I was
00:12:55
just reading so many of them that it's
00:12:58
even it's hard to to even tell you
00:13:00
because there was so many people Sandy
00:13:02
Smith I will say was one of those people
00:13:04
she's a dear friend now um she runs a
00:13:07
website called yes I am cheap and the
00:13:09
hustle crew um Tiffany eliche the
00:13:12
budista obviously she's amazing she's
00:13:14
huge she's got like a million people
00:13:16
that follow her literally uh JD Roth
00:13:19
who's who's a friend now as well uh get
00:13:22
rich slowly and just I I I love hearing
00:13:26
his
00:13:27
way uh
00:13:29
overthought sometimes ideas on the
00:13:32
history of money he knows I'm teasing
00:13:34
him if he's listening uh because we
00:13:36
spoke at a
00:13:38
campfi event uh during the pandemic last
00:13:41
summer 2020 and he actually showed a he
00:13:45
shared a really interesting um history
00:13:47
of fire financial Independence retire
00:13:50
early and I trumped him not literally
00:13:52
Trump with the the the idea that Walden
00:13:56
and thorough was actually a fir focused
00:14:00
approach and uh other people including
00:14:02
Vicky Robbins actually said yes that was
00:14:05
the case she said that through Twitter
00:14:07
because he reached out to her anyway um
00:14:10
so there were a lot of R some people
00:14:11
were random some people um are no longer
00:14:14
in the space they I was reading people
00:14:17
who were black Hispanic white um men
00:14:21
women all the th all the above couples
00:14:24
singles uh engaged like everyone's story
00:14:28
was was really interesting to me even if
00:14:31
it didn't directly
00:14:34
um impact me or it wasn't a reflection
00:14:38
of what I was dealing with I just loved
00:14:40
that they shared and I think that that
00:14:43
level of of um
00:14:46
openness has been lost a little bit in
00:14:49
the space as people become entrepreneurs
00:14:52
and that's part of the reason why I took
00:14:53
all entrepreneurship content out of my
00:14:56
website and and started a new project
00:14:59
that's only entrepreneurship driven so
00:15:02
that Michelle is money hungry can really
00:15:04
stay focused on money and personal
00:15:07
finance topics I think that it's very
00:15:10
easy for entrepreneurship to kind of
00:15:12
take over uh a personal finance website
00:15:15
which I've seen over and over again and
00:15:18
I liked both topics and care about both
00:15:22
and so I had to I had to split them up
00:15:24
and and start something
00:15:26
different makes sense I've probably
00:15:28
fallen into that trap and I know a lot
00:15:29
of the bloggers who I who I'm either in
00:15:32
some sort of like outside Mastermind
00:15:33
groups with or who I just talk to
00:15:35
through Twitter I know those bloggers
00:15:37
some of them have fallen to that trap
00:15:39
too where kind of your your personal
00:15:42
finance blog starts just about money but
00:15:45
next thing you know you're writing about
00:15:47
the act of blogging you're writing about
00:15:49
the act of running a small business and
00:15:51
it kind of exactly it all bleeds into
00:15:52
one another um what's what's the name of
00:15:56
your your entrepreneurship uh project
00:16:00
it's called the brandbuilding lab and so
00:16:02
it's brandbuilding la.com not so the the
00:16:05
URL is brandbuilding la.com and the the
00:16:09
thought behind it it's still new it's in
00:16:11
its infancy but the thought behind it is
00:16:14
to really Elevate uplift and share PC
00:16:18
and Allied voices in the online digital
00:16:20
entrepreneurship space as well as answer
00:16:24
all of the entrepreneurship questions
00:16:26
that I get that people um are interested
00:16:29
in that has that that has nothing to do
00:16:32
with personal finance my personal
00:16:34
finance person if they're on that that
00:16:36
Michelle is money hungry and they're
00:16:38
trying to become an empathetic person in
00:16:41
the personal finance space or they're
00:16:43
looking to do sustainable um investing
00:16:48
or something like that they may not
00:16:49
necessarily want to have an
00:16:51
entrepreneurship conversation in their
00:16:53
content they could care less about that
00:16:55
if it's someone on my website Who is so
00:17:00
this week we did an episode I did an
00:17:02
episode talking about
00:17:04
billionaires um the person who's
00:17:07
listening to our Billionaire's evil even
00:17:10
if it's Rihanna may not necessarily want
00:17:13
to hear about how to build a blog like
00:17:16
they don't care it's two different types
00:17:19
of of people and avatars and for me I
00:17:23
just kept feeling like there was a huge
00:17:25
disconnect and how I was serving my my
00:17:28
my uh core readership and listeners and
00:17:31
it just felt wrong it just never felt
00:17:35
right keeping both both types of content
00:17:38
together which is why I eventually I
00:17:41
split it up and after a year of being
00:17:43
home by myself I was able to really look
00:17:46
at the content and think about it so I
00:17:48
spent a lot of time just thinking about
00:17:49
it thinking about how I felt uh when
00:17:53
including entrepreneurship on my money
00:17:55
blog and I was just like this isn't
00:17:57
working for me and so I split it and I'm
00:18:00
really glad that I did so people who are
00:18:03
doing fun and Whimsical and cool digital
00:18:06
entrepreneurship projects those are the
00:18:09
people I want on my my brand building uh
00:18:13
brand building Lab website so a an ideal
00:18:18
person that I would love to have on on
00:18:20
as a guest the black forager she's so
00:18:24
cool she's so interesting so she has
00:18:26
this major brand online and what does
00:18:29
she do she forages for
00:18:31
food and she's like literally like she
00:18:34
goes into the Forest goes out into
00:18:37
nature and she teaches us how to forage
00:18:40
how to recognize chicken chicken of the
00:18:43
wood I think uh mushrooms and all these
00:18:47
different things and I'm from Colorado I
00:18:50
actually like foraging like it's a thing
00:18:52
I enjoy and I feel I feel like creators
00:18:56
like that don't make their way way onto
00:18:58
EO on fire entrepreneurship on fire like
00:19:03
I they're they're too Whimsical they're
00:19:05
too out there right and those are my
00:19:07
kind of people and I wanted a place
00:19:10
where I was sharing those kind of
00:19:13
interesting projects that maybe other
00:19:16
people aren't giving a second look and
00:19:18
I'm not saying that John Lee Dumis isn't
00:19:21
doing that um I'm just saying that's my
00:19:25
impression and so uh espe ese when
00:19:28
they're they're black and brown creators
00:19:30
um I want to make sure that there's a
00:19:32
place for that and so there's another
00:19:35
gentleman who's he's a mus musician and
00:19:38
he his name is Valley
00:19:41
Palace he kind of does like 80s glamrock
00:19:45
EDM kind of situation I love it I love
00:19:47
it I love it I'm obsessed I love 80s
00:19:50
glamrock it's a thing I love it I love
00:19:53
everything about what he does but he's
00:19:55
not mainstream right
00:19:58
um in any kind of way like hip-hop
00:20:00
people may not like him and so but he's
00:20:03
my kind of people and I I am hoping that
00:20:06
one day I get him on my show um there's
00:20:09
another woman on online on Twitter who
00:20:12
is known as as the she does things
00:20:15
around snacks so she's just figuring out
00:20:20
like Trends on snacks like future Trends
00:20:23
with snacks so a trend would be adding
00:20:26
CBD in into products or adapted gens
00:20:31
into products to be a healthier snack
00:20:35
and she's actually gotten some really
00:20:37
good national public publicity uh with
00:20:40
her brand so she's the type of person
00:20:43
that and she's from Honduras I believe
00:20:45
originally flew into the US did uh I
00:20:49
think it was ET a couple of days ago or
00:20:51
a couple weeks ago and that is the kind
00:20:54
of person I'm like you're like who would
00:20:56
have thought it snap Max you're my jam I
00:21:00
want to talk to you and so I just want a
00:21:02
space where we talk about fun Whimsical
00:21:06
interesting digital platforms that make
00:21:09
their creators money and aren't so
00:21:13
boring that's really cool I and I like
00:21:16
that as as a Creator who maybe focuses
00:21:19
on a niche or has a niche audience you
00:21:21
know I haven't gone mainstream yet I
00:21:24
doubt I ever will but uh I do think I
00:21:27
have a a audience to serve and the idea
00:21:30
of getting a little bit of Limelight to
00:21:32
connect my potential audience who hasn't
00:21:35
found me yet to my content that's
00:21:37
something that I would be looking for
00:21:39
and it sounds like that's the Limelight
00:21:41
that's the spotlight that you're shining
00:21:42
on on these these creators I mean I
00:21:45
think that's so cool the black forager
00:21:47
uh unique music from Valley Palace and
00:21:50
then who doesn't like snacks right I
00:21:53
hope they I hope they hear that I'm
00:21:55
looking for
00:21:56
them I will be be pitching I can tag
00:21:59
them I'll tag them on Twitter please and
00:22:02
and honestly there's tons of people out
00:22:04
there doing really cool things and
00:22:07
you're just like wow I I want to share
00:22:10
them and I want this fun space and and
00:22:15
creating content online is a lot of work
00:22:18
and so in order to kind of balance out
00:22:20
that work you need to be excited about
00:22:22
the people that you're connecting with
00:22:25
and these people excite me like if I
00:22:28
wasn't in the space I would be excited
00:22:30
to to know what they were doing and so
00:22:32
that's part of why um I'm focused in
00:22:35
this
00:22:36
way I want to go back Michelle and I
00:22:40
don't want to necessarily rehash sounds
00:22:42
like you had a whole podcast on this
00:22:44
topic and we don't have to have the
00:22:45
whole podcast but it was a juicy sound
00:22:47
bite that was too juicy to ignore uh our
00:22:51
billionaires evil even if they are
00:22:54
Rihanna can you explain that a little
00:22:55
bit in case any of the listeners don't
00:22:57
understand the the the title of that
00:22:59
topic but then also I kind of want to
00:23:01
dig in and and answer that question
00:23:03
between you and
00:23:05
me so uh for Michelle is money hungry
00:23:09
the where I'm really focused is creating
00:23:13
a a platform a personal finance platform
00:23:16
that really has uh conversations
00:23:20
around money and what I'm seeing people
00:23:23
like the chatter online and where the
00:23:26
mood is and one of the things I noticed
00:23:30
is when Oprah became a billionaire
00:23:32
people were like oh my God Oprah's
00:23:34
billionaire is so awesome like people
00:23:36
were really excited right um when
00:23:41
Rihanna became a billionaire and and
00:23:43
other people too like uh the Kardashians
00:23:48
like you know the the young one Kylie I
00:23:50
think it is the the reaction was
00:23:53
different and I noticed it but I also
00:23:55
noticed that in general people are not
00:23:58
happy with billionaires
00:24:01
and when we had this conversation my two
00:24:04
guests and I in the show one of the
00:24:07
things that I brought up was that is is
00:24:10
part of the problem that we've got
00:24:12
billionaires share sending giant peens
00:24:15
into space like is that part of what's
00:24:17
pissing people off and that we are
00:24:19
seeing
00:24:21
poverty
00:24:23
um on unpr unprecedented levels here in
00:24:27
the us and uh it feels like they should
00:24:31
be doing something more right but at the
00:24:34
same time it's like they worked they
00:24:36
they earned the money right but then one
00:24:39
of my guests was was saying no actually
00:24:42
I'm gonna backtrack I was at my coffee
00:24:45
shop that day before returning home to
00:24:48
record that episode and my f one of my
00:24:51
favorite Baristas was
00:24:53
like
00:24:55
so um billionaires cuz I I tell them
00:24:58
what I'm up to and and I asked their
00:25:00
opinion right and I asked my Barista it
00:25:04
was like so what are your thoughts on
00:25:05
this and she said well the thing is with
00:25:08
billionaires it often feels like they
00:25:10
have to step on people in order to get
00:25:13
to the billions and I was like huh and
00:25:16
she said in particular people who in
00:25:18
inherited their their wealth and when
00:25:22
you have people like Bezos who got 300
00:25:25
Grand I I feel like it was like 300
00:25:27
Grand from his family in order to launch
00:25:29
his business there's something to be
00:25:31
said when we're hearing reports that
00:25:33
people are peeing in bottles in order to
00:25:35
work uh on the floor and if they're not
00:25:38
productive at certain levels of
00:25:39
productivity that that are being tracked
00:25:42
digitally as you could imagine at Amazon
00:25:44
that they're that they're fired um and
00:25:47
so the
00:25:49
conversation I really enjoyed it was
00:25:52
interesting
00:25:53
because I think for us in the personal
00:25:56
finance space we like making more money
00:26:00
right like the whole why would we want
00:26:03
to make more money but then as a person
00:26:06
who is building a platform that talks
00:26:10
about social good and
00:26:13
policy connected to finance whether or
00:26:16
not you're rich or
00:26:18
poor the question becomes well are
00:26:20
billionaires evil and do they have an
00:26:23
obligation to Society at large and that
00:26:26
was kind of what we were working
00:26:29
through I see and we'll be sure I'll be
00:26:32
sure to link to this uh to your podcast
00:26:34
Michelle in the show notes so any
00:26:36
listeners can go tune into that after
00:26:38
they're done listening here now you
00:26:40
raised a few good points in there uh so
00:26:42
one of them right off the bat is you
00:26:44
know I'm out here creating content
00:26:45
online trying to forge my own little
00:26:48
entrepreneurial path Michelle you're
00:26:50
doing the same thing and you're like
00:26:52
light years ahead of me right you're
00:26:53
you're essentially running your own
00:26:55
business and you're supporting yourself
00:26:56
fully through entrepreneurship so I
00:26:59
think we can both on on different levels
00:27:02
respect the grind that many of these
00:27:04
billionaires put in to get to where they
00:27:07
are you know tons of hard work no one is
00:27:10
doubting that there's tons of hard work
00:27:12
involved when I think of say Jeff Bezos
00:27:15
or or Elon Musk say really cool ideas
00:27:19
and and a desire to execute on those
00:27:21
really cool ideas ideas that we
00:27:24
consumers look at and say yes I I want
00:27:26
to give you your money give you my money
00:27:28
for your good idea and that's really
00:27:31
cool uh but one thing that I always come
00:27:33
back to one of many things is uh let's
00:27:37
go back to policy and talk about tax
00:27:38
rates effective tax rates and the taxes
00:27:41
that that billionaires actually pay
00:27:44
whether it's corporate taxes um you know
00:27:46
Amazon doesn't pay corporate taxes is
00:27:49
that right now I know it's legal it's
00:27:52
it's it's within the law but is that
00:27:55
morally right you know they're I see
00:27:57
their their Vans driving on the roads
00:28:00
near my house all the time should they
00:28:02
pay taxes to help support that
00:28:04
infrastructure should they pay you know
00:28:07
it's it's those kind of questions that
00:28:08
really have to we have to get down to
00:28:09
Brass tax and say whether it's Jeff
00:28:12
Bezos himself or Amazon as a corporation
00:28:15
whether it's uh Elon Musk himself or
00:28:18
Tesla SpaceX as as businesses do they
00:28:21
owe some sort of tax back to our society
00:28:26
because without our Society I'm not
00:28:28
exactly sure how their business would
00:28:30
run right it's a two-way street that's
00:28:33
where I go to you know immediately it's
00:28:35
it's not that I don't want there to be
00:28:37
billionaires it's more that I would like
00:28:40
to make sure that billionaires and
00:28:41
billion trillion dollar companies are
00:28:44
paying their fair share of taxes to the
00:28:46
society that helps sustain
00:28:49
them it's funny that you mentioned the
00:28:51
Amazon trucks
00:28:54
so they are always
00:28:58
in my neighborhood they are everywhere I
00:29:00
will admit that I use the I use Amazon I
00:29:04
happily use Amazon I publish non-fiction
00:29:07
and fiction books on Amazon I love the
00:29:10
service however I do have concerns about
00:29:16
um social good social impact how the the
00:29:20
business can um cannibalize other
00:29:23
businesses I don't go to Walmart
00:29:26
actually for two reasons one the city of
00:29:29
Denver people in the city of Denver
00:29:30
fought against Walmart in our town so
00:29:33
they were going to open like a boutique
00:29:36
Walmart to test it out in Denver proper
00:29:39
so in the suburbs yes there are Walmarts
00:29:41
but in Denver the city of Denver there
00:29:43
aren't any and um I'd say about seven or
00:29:46
eight years ago they were going to open
00:29:48
up a a boutique Walmart and the people
00:29:51
fought against it for that development
00:29:53
they were like no because once it's in
00:29:56
to uh it once it's in a town it
00:29:59
cannibalizes other local
00:30:01
businesses so um and we won they
00:30:05
won Denver still doesn't have a Walmart
00:30:08
so I literally have not been to Walmart
00:30:10
I want to say at least seven years like
00:30:13
I just I why would I go there there's
00:30:16
not one near me I don't why
00:30:19
however when we look at Social good and
00:30:22
social impact I think it's really
00:30:24
important to uh think about our role in
00:30:28
things and are we complicit in um the
00:30:31
mistreatment of others and so I am
00:30:34
definitely with Amazon I'm very
00:30:36
conflicted um I do a lot of things where
00:30:42
I try to eliminate the conflict right so
00:30:47
I live in Denver Colorado we just before
00:30:51
we started this call I was telling you
00:30:52
about the um fact that on Saturday of
00:30:56
this week week we ended up having here
00:30:58
in the city of Denver the worst error in
00:31:00
the entire world I can confirm it was
00:31:03
the worst error in in the entire world
00:31:05
and one of the things that I've noticed
00:31:07
is that
00:31:09
um I can't control everything but I can
00:31:12
control me so I use a car share and car
00:31:16
share helps me to eliminate two things
00:31:19
cost and my impact on the earth and for
00:31:23
those of you guys who are like what the
00:31:24
heck is a car share car share basically
00:31:26
I pay
00:31:27
a subscription every month in order to
00:31:30
access a fleet of cars and then when I
00:31:32
use the car the actual time that I use
00:31:34
the car I pay for as well as any gas
00:31:36
that I use love this system it's Earth
00:31:40
friendly it's a nonprofit it's totally
00:31:43
in alignment with my financial ideals um
00:31:47
the content that I share on my website I
00:31:50
try to be really an alignment with my
00:31:52
ideals how I hire I've just started
00:31:54
hiring people for to help me with my
00:31:56
business business contractors in
00:31:59
alignment so I'm always trying to be in
00:32:01
alignment with what I'm doing and so
00:32:03
when we talk about
00:32:05
billionaires I think many people are
00:32:07
reacting to a couple things which is it
00:32:10
is it's it's skewed right like it seems
00:32:13
out of alignment with what the rest of
00:32:15
us are experiencing and and having in
00:32:18
our lives you know we're we're not
00:32:20
billionaires like most of us are lucky
00:32:22
to even hit $100,000 a year right right
00:32:26
um
00:32:27
the excess when I live in my city and I
00:32:32
see homeless
00:32:34
encampments that is upsetting when I I
00:32:38
know that there are people with so much
00:32:40
money that they could help create policy
00:32:43
to eliminate these
00:32:46
issues so for me I I'm a little in the
00:32:50
middle about billionaires I think that
00:32:52
they do have an ethical and moral um
00:32:58
um I just had a brain fart oh my God I
00:33:01
hate obligation obligation yes you can
00:33:04
keep that in there um obligation to
00:33:07
society one because on a basic level
00:33:09
they do use our roads those Prime trucks
00:33:12
are driving around all day long in my
00:33:13
neighborhood all through my out my city
00:33:16
they're using our our our infrastructure
00:33:19
in order to facilitate their their
00:33:21
business
00:33:23
um and so the question
00:33:25
becomes
00:33:27
have we become so desensitized to what's
00:33:30
not going right in the US in particular
00:33:33
that billionaires are just sexy
00:33:36
regardless of whether or not they're
00:33:38
doing the right thing and and then the
00:33:41
question becomes are they even obligated
00:33:42
to do the right thing what is the right
00:33:44
thing for whom is the right thing so
00:33:47
back in the day
00:33:48
Carnegie uh understood that an educated
00:33:52
um Workforce would benefit him you know
00:33:54
what he did he built Li liaries
00:33:57
throughout the United States he built
00:33:58
almost 3,000 libraries across the entire
00:34:01
United States everyone benefited and he
00:34:04
made
00:34:06
money um I just I was a moderator
00:34:09
yesterday we recorded a a panel for
00:34:13
fincon 2021 and it was about ESG and
00:34:17
sustainable investing yeah real quick
00:34:20
can you explain what what does ESG stand
00:34:22
for I always forget the acronym so let
00:34:25
me let me I think it's environmentalism
00:34:28
uh sustainability and governance yes yes
00:34:31
I'm hor I'm learning it too but but yeah
00:34:34
okay I'm horrible and uh anyway so where
00:34:39
was I going with this oh my god oh you
00:34:41
were saying that you were moderating a
00:34:42
thinon panel um about ESP investing yeah
00:34:46
and so um one of the panelists basically
00:34:49
was saying that businesses that lean
00:34:52
into social good actually end up being
00:34:55
very very profitable
00:34:57
probably because people have deeper
00:35:00
trust in those
00:35:01
organizations um the people who work
00:35:03
there are happier like there's there's
00:35:05
all these things that uh different
00:35:08
points of impact that will occur when
00:35:11
you have happy people so Target for me
00:35:15
I'm a fan for life I've always loved
00:35:17
Target love Target the fact that they're
00:35:19
now going to pay for people to go to
00:35:22
college you can't I will never not love
00:35:24
Target they've got I will never ever
00:35:27
ever ever step foot in Walmart because
00:35:29
of that
00:35:30
policy not just because it's not in
00:35:32
Denver I I I want you know I mean like I
00:35:35
will always spend there because one of
00:35:38
the things I I've understood in the past
00:35:41
you know 10 15 years is even small
00:35:45
amounts make a big difference whether
00:35:47
it's spending in a local uh business
00:35:50
last year my little coffee like you guys
00:35:53
all laugh because I'm always on
00:35:55
Instagram at a coffee shop but the thing
00:35:57
is those businesses really appreciated
00:36:00
my $4 coffee because Denver is expensive
00:36:02
and coffee is $4 do that helped them
00:36:05
stay in business that helped keep people
00:36:07
working yep you know um those small
00:36:11
amounts made a big difference and I was
00:36:13
intentional in doing that even though I
00:36:15
love Starbucks I was like Starbucks is
00:36:17
going to be
00:36:19
okay but my local coffee shop might not
00:36:23
be um and so I made a point I I've
00:36:26
always done this because don't laugh I
00:36:29
have a Colorado project as well and um I
00:36:33
focus on uplifting Colorado local
00:36:36
businesses initiatives projects things
00:36:38
like that and I always spend locally
00:36:41
whenever I can um not just local to
00:36:44
spend local like with good businesses
00:36:46
that are doing good things um but
00:36:48
because I understand that with every
00:36:50
dollar that I spend locally it stays in
00:36:52
the economy longer like the impact is
00:36:55
longer yep
00:36:57
um or the impact is sustained over time
00:37:00
and so that is something that I think is
00:37:03
important and so with billionaires the
00:37:05
question becomes okay you're a
00:37:07
billionaire and now you're you're you
00:37:10
know producing Goods overseas to sell to
00:37:13
your us-based
00:37:15
um clientele maybe I would be okay with
00:37:19
paying a little more if that was
00:37:21
employing someone here and I do that all
00:37:23
the
00:37:24
time right yeah something think about it
00:37:28
is it is and and one thing you were
00:37:29
hitting on in there Michelle you were
00:37:30
talking about ESG investing which for
00:37:33
any listeners not aware of ESG investing
00:37:35
it is a rapidly growing Trend where uh
00:37:39
people who are investing money are
00:37:40
choosing to place their Investments with
00:37:43
companies that have positive social
00:37:45
Footprints whether that's an
00:37:47
environmental footprint or more of a a a
00:37:51
sustainability and social footprint you
00:37:53
know the way they treat people and I
00:37:56
think I think the old school way of
00:37:57
thinking about businesses and thinking
00:37:59
about corporations and investing is the
00:38:03
corporation job is to make profit for
00:38:06
the shareholder and that's a Milton
00:38:08
Freedman thing correct right that's like
00:38:10
old school economics right Milton
00:38:12
fredman if you don't know uh he would be
00:38:15
I think Michelle would call him an old
00:38:16
white dude
00:38:18
Economist he's the OG he's the one who
00:38:20
created that whole like frame of thought
00:38:24
and framework around Corporation s are
00:38:27
um accountable to their shareholders not
00:38:30
necessarily to society right exactly
00:38:33
exactly and and you know if if people
00:38:37
are still thinking in that Milton
00:38:38
Freeman mind frame fine they can but
00:38:43
individual investors people like you and
00:38:44
me Michelle and people listening to this
00:38:46
podcast the investors can start making
00:38:48
decisions that well we want to put our
00:38:51
money into businesses that care about
00:38:53
things other than just making profit so
00:38:56
now all of a sudden if you're the
00:38:58
corporation and your shareholders are
00:39:00
all looking at you saying we want you to
00:39:02
do something slightly different than
00:39:03
making pure profit well now the company
00:39:06
is obliged to start thinking along ESG
00:39:09
terms so hopefully we see this movement
00:39:11
continue and we see more and more
00:39:13
companies doing things like Target did
00:39:16
where they say you know what we're
00:39:18
actually rather than sending all these
00:39:20
profits to our shareholders in uh in the
00:39:22
form of dividends we are going to
00:39:24
reinvest in our Workforce and pay for
00:39:27
their college cool I think that's a
00:39:29
great thing one of the interesting
00:39:32
things about this conversation like this
00:39:34
last point that you just made isn't it
00:39:37
interesting that the US is the only
00:39:39
country reporting all of this uh
00:39:43
volatility in the labor
00:39:45
market we're the only ones with this
00:39:48
being a thing and the reason why is
00:39:51
other countries have labor laws and just
00:39:54
things in place to uh manage worker
00:39:59
happiness citizen citizen happiness and
00:40:03
now that Americans have experienced time
00:40:06
freedom and flexibility we're never
00:40:09
going we you will have to we will never
00:40:11
let that
00:40:12
go you know you'll have to pull that
00:40:15
time Freedom out of our cold dead
00:40:19
hands right yeah that's why online
00:40:22
digital entrepreneurs love
00:40:23
entrepreneurship for the most part some
00:40:25
people hate it but most people once they
00:40:28
start making money and they they get
00:40:30
through the first three three painful
00:40:32
years the first three years is really
00:40:34
painful um once they start understanding
00:40:37
how to make money and they're working
00:40:38
you know maybe 40 hours a month game
00:40:42
on we want freedom and in the US it's
00:40:46
very challenging within how work is
00:40:49
structured to have the kind of Freedom
00:40:51
that also encourages uh lifestyle
00:40:55
happiness and so businesses who
00:40:58
understand that and understand work
00:41:00
their Workforce motivations and are
00:41:03
Nimble and and working towards keeping
00:41:06
those people happy um they will have
00:41:08
people working for them and not everyone
00:41:11
works White Collar jobs where that's an
00:41:13
option so maybe maybe I work um outdoors
00:41:17
I work with my hands there's still
00:41:19
opportunities within um Fields
00:41:22
vocational fields to do that too to make
00:41:25
sure that people are happy
00:41:27
MH and and people Americans work like
00:41:30
our productivity has gone through the
00:41:32
roof during Co they they we are so
00:41:36
productive so it's not that we want work
00:41:38
it's just that we want we don't want to
00:41:41
have to be like please sir can I take my
00:41:43
kids to the dentist you know like we
00:41:45
it's just ridiculous that we don't even
00:41:47
have the flexibility to to have some
00:41:50
terms uh of our like some freedom to
00:41:53
just do what's best for us within the
00:41:55
context of work that was a great little
00:41:58
uh Twist on Oliver Twist right there I
00:42:01
like that hopefully other people
00:42:04
understand um you made me think of
00:42:06
something Michelle hold on wait for
00:42:10
it uh oh I know what it was uh creative
00:42:14
destruction right it's it's one of my
00:42:16
favorite uh economy
00:42:18
terms that uh The Way businesses work is
00:42:22
they that they uh through through
00:42:24
creating new ideas through creating new
00:42:26
products other companies get destroyed
00:42:29
it's just the way the economy works and
00:42:32
we're going to see some of that you
00:42:33
alluded to some of that where the
00:42:35
companies that aren't able to adapt to
00:42:38
this new postco work domain that is
00:42:41
about to ensue or you know has been
00:42:43
going on for a few months now the ones
00:42:45
that can't adapt might just be destroyed
00:42:49
and the ones that do adapt and do adapt
00:42:51
well they will live long and
00:42:54
prosper I I like that Star Trek
00:42:57
reference thank you thought I'd throw
00:42:59
one back at
00:43:00
you um and I'm a treky so that was that
00:43:03
was a good one nice nice I want to tell
00:43:06
them about another piece of content that
00:43:09
I want more people to know about that I
00:43:11
put out um I recently did an episode
00:43:15
about the financial life of sex workers
00:43:18
oh um yeah that was one of my favorite
00:43:22
interviews besides yours quite honestly
00:43:25
um no I loved your interview and I've
00:43:27
gotten a lot of positive feedback so
00:43:28
just so you know oh cool that's good um
00:43:31
and that conversation I
00:43:34
feel hasn't been had enough because
00:43:37
people are nervous to have questions and
00:43:40
conversations like that right and that's
00:43:42
that's the this is the sex worker
00:43:43
conversation right not not the one with
00:43:45
me they they are two separate
00:43:46
conversations just so everybody knows I
00:43:49
have nothing against sex work it's
00:43:50
just's it's not Jessie's
00:43:54
conversation he talked about Bitcoin
00:43:56
going um but the that was funny um but
00:44:00
that the episode where I spoke with the
00:44:02
sex worker and just the financials
00:44:05
behind what does what what does a career
00:44:08
in this space look like those are the
00:44:11
stories that I don't hear enough that
00:44:14
are out there that we could ask but a
00:44:17
lot of people are
00:44:19
uncomfortable and honestly I was
00:44:21
uncomfortable for a couple reasons this
00:44:24
is not a side hustle I have done
00:44:26
I probably won't ever do it um I I don't
00:44:30
I think no one wants to see this on only
00:44:33
fans right I'm not 20 um but I want like
00:44:37
I want I wanted to go into that
00:44:40
conversation with care and
00:44:43
respect um and empathy because this
00:44:48
guest had had a a hard like behind
00:44:52
everything in my view there was a lot of
00:44:54
hurt um that impacted choices that she
00:44:58
made and she ended up saying yes to this
00:45:03
this uh way of life and this way of
00:45:06
making money and I still am thinking
00:45:10
about that conversation it'll be a long
00:45:12
time where I every once in a while I'll
00:45:14
just kind of think about it because
00:45:19
um it it was a hard conversation to have
00:45:23
and I wish that more people would have
00:45:26
the hard conversations whether it's
00:45:28
about policy or money or racism or
00:45:31
whatever but people are really afraid to
00:45:35
do that because they're afraid to be
00:45:36
wrong they're afraid to be awkward
00:45:39
they're afraid to
00:45:41
um to be right you know depending on
00:45:44
what it is and we just don't have enough
00:45:48
conversations around topics that are
00:45:51
important or stories that are important
00:45:55
and every every everyone's story is
00:45:57
important and my guest in that episode
00:46:00
was like sex workers are just like you
00:46:04
and me like they want to be there for
00:46:06
their kids and they want to go to soccer
00:46:08
games and they it was just a
00:46:11
conversation that um was important to
00:46:14
have but we don't have enough
00:46:16
conversations with someone who is a
00:46:18
first generation person or in the
00:46:21
financial space or someone who's
00:46:24
undocumented why in the hell would
00:46:26
someone want to you know leave their
00:46:29
home country go through a
00:46:32
desert potentially die on the way to
00:46:35
come here like what is it that would
00:46:38
make them make that decision displace
00:46:41
themselves and so I I I basically am
00:46:45
ending my rant by saying if you're in
00:46:47
the personal finance space I need you
00:46:49
guys to try harder I need you to try
00:46:52
harder and have the harder
00:46:54
conversations the ones that make you
00:46:56
slightly uncomfortable because I grew by
00:46:59
having that that conversation talk to
00:47:02
your relatives when I talked to my
00:47:04
Grandma about her finances and how she
00:47:06
learned about what a 401k was was 10
00:47:09
years before she retired and you know um
00:47:12
those conversations will impact the
00:47:14
advice that we give the reason why she
00:47:17
didn't uh sign up for her for the 41k
00:47:20
the first time was they didn't
00:47:23
understand what it was no one in the
00:47:25
company was Major Tire
00:47:27
Company um and they got a 401k plan like
00:47:32
the the people who owned the company
00:47:35
made this available to the
00:47:37
workers no one signed up because no one
00:47:40
understood what it meant like they
00:47:41
didn't get it and so a year later they
00:47:44
had um Pap paperwork on it just kind of
00:47:47
explaining it they had workshops and
00:47:50
then my grandma signed up for it and
00:47:52
then she just uh saved aggressively for
00:47:55
10 years years and she's been retired
00:47:58
for God she's been retired for like 30
00:48:01
years now easily happily retired and
00:48:04
that 10 years of aggressive Savings in
00:48:07
her
00:48:08
401K uh was because they had a a
00:48:12
different kind of approach and a
00:48:13
different conversation with the people
00:48:15
who work there and this is what needs to
00:48:19
happen in order for us to be more
00:48:21
impactful in the space we have to talk
00:48:22
to people because we may be missing
00:48:24
people because we're making assumptions
00:48:27
so the the people who introduced that
00:48:29
401k they assumed that workers would be
00:48:32
like okay we'll just we'll just sign up
00:48:35
like this is an opportunity that they
00:48:37
were providing but the workers had no
00:48:39
idea how it was an opportunity they were
00:48:40
afraid that the that the uh stock market
00:48:44
would eat their money and would like
00:48:46
they'd lose everything because they were
00:48:47
working hard in a
00:48:50
factory right yeah well what you're
00:48:53
describing a little bit I mean there's
00:48:55
there's a few things you're describing
00:48:56
one thing you're making me think of
00:48:57
Michelle is uh I'm sure there's a better
00:48:59
name for it but it's like the blind spot
00:49:02
bias or it's the um you know I have a
00:49:05
hard time thinking about people who are
00:49:06
different than me biased which I I'm
00:49:08
saying that I suffer from that sometimes
00:49:10
I know it we all do we all do exactly we
00:49:12
all do and it takes a a concentrated
00:49:15
effort to take a step back and kind of
00:49:18
look at yourself and say where are my
00:49:20
blind spots what am I overlooking you
00:49:23
know I'm writing as a you know I'm a
00:49:25
third 31-year-old uh male
00:49:27
engineer went to a a good school I've
00:49:30
got a good salary didn't have a ton of
00:49:32
debt it's pretty easy for me to say yeah
00:49:35
let me write about why Roth IRAs and
00:49:37
401ks are great well a bunch of people
00:49:40
out there are going to look at me and
00:49:41
say like I don't know what either one of
00:49:43
those things are and even if I did I
00:49:45
don't have the money to invest in them
00:49:47
you're not helping me at all Jesse so
00:49:49
it's it's that kind of thing um I try
00:49:53
and I have tried and and I will continue
00:49:54
to try and maybe maybe with this with
00:49:56
this uh encouragement from you I'm going
00:49:58
to start trying
00:50:00
harder I think you tried you're you're
00:50:02
good but we we all can try harder and
00:50:05
that's agre like I'm not just saying
00:50:07
this to the listeners who might be
00:50:09
content creators I'm saying this to
00:50:11
myself as
00:50:13
well well some of those conversations
00:50:15
sound sound very interesting um they are
00:50:18
I mean right because I you know here's a
00:50:19
great example I have zero interaction
00:50:23
with the sex work community
00:50:26
do any of us if we're not in like I only
00:50:29
connected with her because she's on
00:50:31
social media and I follow her on Twitter
00:50:33
because she's in the social she's in the
00:50:35
personal finance space so finding out
00:50:38
why this individual is in the fire space
00:50:42
as a sex worker was
00:50:43
fascinating see you've got me intrigued
00:50:46
that is fascinating well what um what
00:50:49
episode of your podcast is that Michelle
00:50:51
that I want to say it's 180 okay I'll
00:50:54
I'll look it up at after the fact I'll
00:50:56
throw it in the show notes there's a
00:50:58
there's also a uh a Content
00:51:02
disclaimer so like parental parental
00:51:04
advisory disa NC 17 like it's legit like
00:51:08
I'm like this is grown folks so you know
00:51:10
I warned you this isn't Kansas anymore
00:51:13
yeah exactly so all right
00:51:17
Dorothy okay Michelle um let's let's
00:51:21
let's hit up some famous best interest
00:51:24
podcast rapid fire questions they're
00:51:26
famous but no no worries you'll there's
00:51:28
no pressure you'll do fine so the first
00:51:30
one what is the last material object or
00:51:33
personal luxury that you spent $100 or
00:51:37
more
00:51:38
on uh actually I want to say my my trip
00:51:41
to podcast movement oh very nice podcast
00:51:45
movement is a uh a conference right yes
00:51:48
so I just returned from Nashville
00:51:50
Tennessee which I had no idea was lit
00:51:54
it's like a mini
00:51:55
Las Vegas for country folks like it is I
00:51:59
love that town I don't even really like
00:52:01
country music um I like a little country
00:52:03
music but I'm not like obsessed um and I
00:52:07
loved that town if I lived in Nashville
00:52:10
I would just eat obsessively and gain
00:52:12
500 pounds that's all I would do that
00:52:14
would be my occupation I do know I've
00:52:17
got a lot of friends around here who
00:52:18
have gone to Nashville multiple times
00:52:20
and they keep going back and they keep
00:52:21
on planning trips back there because
00:52:23
incredible City such a cool place it's
00:52:25
awesome I've never been it's on my to-do
00:52:27
list it's it's on your list like get a
00:52:29
frontier ticket and just a duffel bag
00:52:32
and go nice love Frontier I'm a frontier
00:52:35
fan even if occasionally they do duct
00:52:39
tape you to your seat it's probably
00:52:41
because you deserve it I don't know if
00:52:43
anyone gets that reference but uh hey
00:52:46
that was the week I was traveling was
00:52:49
that your flight that was the day I was
00:52:51
traveling I was like oh you missed out
00:52:54
you missed out maybe in a good way maybe
00:52:56
in a bad way and speaking of good and
00:52:58
bad the next question is what's one good
00:53:01
habit you're trying to form or if you'd
00:53:03
like a bad habit that you're trying to
00:53:06
break um a bad habit that I think might
00:53:09
resonate with a lot of people is um
00:53:12
Financial
00:53:14
sabotage so I have to be very
00:53:21
mindful of my money mindset and um I
00:53:25
think because I've had so many problems
00:53:28
with money that there there's still
00:53:30
things that I can do or that I do that
00:53:33
can get in the way of my finances um
00:53:37
growing healthily so just really making
00:53:40
sure that I don't sabotage my my um
00:53:44
business growth my um pricing things
00:53:49
like that and so in order to do that I
00:53:52
one just have to be mindful and aware
00:53:54
and just self aware
00:53:55
and understand some of the things that I
00:53:59
potentially could do to get in my own
00:54:01
way and this is something that comes up
00:54:03
in a lot of entrepreneurs that maybe
00:54:06
they they're not even
00:54:08
self-aware um like they they don't even
00:54:11
know that they're doing this but I
00:54:13
notice it and that's because I've been
00:54:15
writing about money for so long I I I
00:54:17
was noticing some things so that is
00:54:20
something I'm really working on gotcha
00:54:23
what what's a what's an example of that
00:54:25
I mean I guess you did give us a couple
00:54:27
examples dealing with your your pricing
00:54:29
um but what's something you might see
00:54:31
and you were mentioning other
00:54:32
entrepreneurs that you'll see mistakes
00:54:33
that they're making what's an example of
00:54:35
that well pricing is a huge one like way
00:54:38
under pricing what their work should be
00:54:42
um what they should be compensated for
00:54:45
with with their work I see okay another
00:54:48
thing
00:54:50
is not being confident around the
00:54:53
pricing once they set their prices
00:54:56
so it can be in the digital space in
00:55:00
particular it it can feel a little
00:55:02
ephemeral right because we're dealing
00:55:04
with
00:55:05
bites um data bites and digital bites if
00:55:09
you will but I spent a lot of time
00:55:12
learning what I'm doing in order to
00:55:14
teach it to other people so if I'm
00:55:17
creating products goods and services
00:55:19
that's a
00:55:21
reflection of that um at the same time I
00:55:24
have a social mandate and Mission within
00:55:28
my business so what can what also
00:55:31
impacts my pricing and things like that
00:55:33
is
00:55:35
accessibility so um making sure that in
00:55:39
being confident about confident enough
00:55:42
about my pricing that I can take care of
00:55:45
myself and be good financially that I'm
00:55:49
also building an equitable business
00:55:51
model that serves um my my current and
00:55:55
future clientele wherever they may find
00:55:58
themselves
00:56:00
so businesses that only have really high
00:56:03
pric products um for me in the digital
00:56:06
space I don't think that's ideal because
00:56:09
your your customers can't do a a
00:56:11
customer Journey with you for me I was
00:56:14
very deliberate in building out products
00:56:17
that are free to Hy too uh you know
00:56:21
expensive if you will gotcha so that way
00:56:26
I can serve people where wherever they
00:56:28
may land and never be in the space where
00:56:31
I have
00:56:33
to make an unethical
00:56:36
pitch you know the whole just invest in
00:56:39
yourself I'm like maybe they shouldn't
00:56:41
invest in themselves right now maybe
00:56:42
they're broke maybe they just need the
00:56:44
free like the the mini guide because I
00:56:47
was that person right right yeah I was
00:56:50
that person so um in sabotaging yourself
00:56:54
it could be that
00:56:55
you try to do the quick wins but maybe
00:56:58
people are unhappy with with what you've
00:57:00
done and then you get bad publicity
00:57:02
later but you you had these high priced
00:57:05
uh products because you were broke and
00:57:08
you were just trying to get the quick
00:57:09
money you know so I haven't done that
00:57:12
but I kind of feel like that's happened
00:57:14
out there and sooner or later you you
00:57:16
hear about it yeah so instead I was like
00:57:20
I'm going to make
00:57:22
sure that um I am thoughtful about
00:57:26
everything that I'm
00:57:27
doing um in my business in terms of
00:57:30
products and service to others so that I
00:57:33
don't put myself in a position
00:57:35
especially before when I was so broke
00:57:37
where I have to make unethical choices
00:57:40
and disclosure when I was younger I made
00:57:43
a couple unethical Financial choices and
00:57:45
it still bothers me to this day I might
00:57:47
do a podcast episode one day about it um
00:57:51
and I think that um
00:57:55
when you're broke that that's a very
00:57:58
dangerous thing entrepreneurs in
00:58:00
particular their cash flow goes up and
00:58:02
down and so you have to be really
00:58:04
careful about a lot of things so yeah
00:58:08
gotcha gotcha well one thing I mean you
00:58:11
you ended up talking about having a uh
00:58:13
kind of running the the full gamut of uh
00:58:16
pricing when it comes to your products
00:58:18
one thing that you were talking about in
00:58:19
terms of underpricing I know something
00:58:21
that I've struggled with is finding the
00:58:22
right price for some of my Freel work
00:58:25
and I'm reminded of uh there's this
00:58:27
parable about Pablo bicasso are you
00:58:30
familiar with this drawing this is a new
00:58:32
one for me so the the story is you know
00:58:34
that Pablo Picasso he's 72 years old
00:58:37
he's sitting at this beautiful Cafe
00:58:39
somewhere in Suburban Paris and a woman
00:58:43
walks up to him and she says you know
00:58:45
you're Pablo Picasso he's like yeah
00:58:47
what's up Ola you know you'll s Pablo
00:58:51
and uh she says you know can you draw
00:58:54
can you draw something for me and he
00:58:55
goes yeah sure so he pulls out the
00:58:57
napkin and he Doodles some really nice
00:59:00
looking Pablo Picasso style doodle on
00:59:02
the napkin and he hands it to her and he
00:59:04
says you know that'll be
00:59:05
$220,000 and she's like $20,000 like
00:59:09
that literally took you three minutes
00:59:11
and he goes oh no no no that took me my
00:59:14
whole life right oh Mike drop Mike drop
00:59:18
Pablo right you know odds are it's BS
00:59:21
but it's the same idea that the story
00:59:23
explains the idea that you're not
00:59:25
necessarily paying for someone's 30
00:59:27
minutes or someone's hour or what I
00:59:29
should say is a customer isn't paying
00:59:32
for your hour Michelle they're really
00:59:34
paying for your whole body of knowledge
00:59:37
so it's it's you know you have to price
00:59:39
that fairly and it might mean that they
00:59:41
pay more for your hour than they would
00:59:44
earn in a typical hour at their own job
00:59:46
right that's just the way expertise
00:59:49
works so okay yeah go ahead exactly I
00:59:52
I'm launching a a new product tonight
00:59:55
actually and I've decided that with the
00:59:58
type of product that it is it's going to
01:00:01
be it's never going to be more than 150
01:00:04
bucks it's just never going to be more
01:00:06
than 150 bucks and the reason why is
01:00:09
within the the the products in my
01:00:11
business there was room for something at
01:00:14
that tier and it could so impact um
01:00:18
entrepreneurs and better their lives I
01:00:21
think in terms of access that I didn't
01:00:24
want to price it so that they couldn't
01:00:25
even access the the the product the tool
01:00:29
and um so it's just being as an
01:00:32
entrepreneur you just have to think
01:00:34
about these things um and that says a
01:00:36
lot about how you think about your your
01:00:39
clientele right I like it I like it um
01:00:42
the next question that I always like to
01:00:44
hear from is uh what's your favorite
01:00:47
Financial tool or app or service that
01:00:50
you use and
01:00:52
why my newest favorite is Cube money um
01:00:56
I actually share it as an affiliate on
01:00:59
my podcast now because I love it so much
01:01:02
and basically it is a um digital
01:01:07
envelope app and so each you you
01:01:11
basically have a debit card like a Debit
01:01:15
Visa card that is paired with your app
01:01:18
and say for example you deposit $200
01:01:21
into your FDIC insured account um and
01:01:25
then you separate your your cash into
01:01:28
the different cubes or envelopes uh and
01:01:31
then basically you open up the app when
01:01:33
you're about to spend that's it and you
01:01:35
just use the app uh or use the cube for
01:01:39
the spending that you're doing gotcha
01:01:41
all the spending all the spending is
01:01:43
done through that debit card that they
01:01:44
give you exactly so instead of being
01:01:47
freaked out that you're going to lose
01:01:49
actual physical cash and especially now
01:01:52
where a lot of places aren't taking cash
01:01:56
um this is a great way to stay organized
01:01:59
and have spending envelopes and just
01:02:03
just work your system so that you can
01:02:05
get ahead without the possibility of
01:02:08
losing your money so I love I love Cube
01:02:10
money nice and that is I think I've seen
01:02:12
you talk about it before that's cube
01:02:14
with a Q right yes yes Cube QBE uhuh
01:02:18
cool Cube money I love it first time
01:02:21
I've heard about that on the best
01:02:22
interest podcast and uh
01:02:25
the last one Michelle always a good one
01:02:28
if I gave you a billboard to share any
01:02:30
message with the world what would you
01:02:34
say you're gonna like this one don't be
01:02:37
a
01:02:40
douche I do like that so that I'm
01:02:44
serious there are a lot of people who
01:02:46
for some reason really enjoy being
01:02:49
douchy people I don't know why I'm not
01:02:52
sure what what's
01:02:54
what's going on what that's about um on
01:02:57
the flip side instead of being don't be
01:02:59
a douche being nice wins all the time
01:03:02
like being the nice person always win
01:03:04
the nice guy always wins I think in the
01:03:06
end or at least they're not eating spit
01:03:08
Burgers so um be nice and don't be a
01:03:11
douche is what what I would put on
01:03:14
it we're gonna end on that don't be a
01:03:18
douche but Michelle if people out there
01:03:21
maybe they want to learn how not to be a
01:03:23
douche or
01:03:24
better yet maybe they want to learn more
01:03:26
about entrepreneurship they want to
01:03:28
check out your podcast they want to
01:03:29
check out your writing how can people
01:03:31
get a hold you Michelle you can contact
01:03:34
me at Michelle's money hungry.com
01:03:37
backconnect withth Michelle um and it's
01:03:41
connect dwith Das Michelle so um and
01:03:45
you'll find links to the different
01:03:46
projects how to email me and yes by
01:03:49
different projects it's uh brand
01:03:52
building lab Michelle is money hungry
01:03:54
and yes even my Colorado project that I
01:03:56
keep quiet so um it's all on that page
01:03:59
awesome thank you Michelle and that one
01:04:01
I will for sure put in the show notes so
01:04:04
that all the listeners none of whom are
01:04:06
douches I will point out can get a hold
01:04:09
of you if they want to I
01:04:12
know I really appreciate you coming on
01:04:15
sharing your knowledge sharing your
01:04:17
humor with us on the best interest
01:04:19
podcast thank you Michelle thank you for
01:04:21
having
01:04:23
me
01:04:24
[Music]
01:04:27
huge thank you to Michelle for coming on
01:04:29
to the podcast today I've included all
01:04:31
of Michelle's links in the show notes if
01:04:33
you want to get a hold of her if you
01:04:35
want to reach out to me my email is
01:04:37
Jesse bestin interest. blog or you can
01:04:40
follow me on Twitter where my username
01:04:42
is bestore JC I love hearing from you
01:04:46
guys don't hesitate to reach out if you
01:04:48
find this valuable and you want to give
01:04:49
back there are three easy options for
01:04:51
you all free absolutely free you can
01:04:54
subscribe to the podcast from the app
01:04:56
you're listening to right
01:04:57
now or you can leave a rating or a
01:05:00
review of the
01:05:02
podcast we can continue to invest in one
01:05:04
another because as Ben Franklin said an
01:05:07
investment in knowledge pays the best
01:05:08
interest sharing with others is
01:05:10
investing in their knowledge so thank
01:05:13
you all for listening to this episode
01:05:15
number 34 of the best interest
01:05:23
podcast
01:05:29
[Music]
