00:00:00
Cara, you know, you grew up like I did.
00:00:02
You know, you're Italian. You don't give
00:00:04
a [ __ ] Okay. You know, I don't give a
00:00:06
[ __ ] I'm ready to fight. Yeah. You
00:00:08
know, because I grew up here on Long
00:00:10
Island. We were doing push-ups in the
00:00:12
parking lot outside of discos getting
00:00:14
ready to fight people. Okay. I don't
00:00:15
give a [ __ ] I will fight Trump every
00:00:18
step of the way.
00:00:25
Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
00:00:27
Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:00:29
Network. I'm Carara Swisser. Scott is
00:00:31
somewhere on a plane. We did an
00:00:33
emergency pod yesterday and I'm glad you
00:00:35
all listened to it and we thought it was
00:00:37
critical to do it. So today I'm joined
00:00:39
by a friend of the pod, the one, the
00:00:41
only Anthony Scaramucci, also known as
00:00:43
the mooch. Anthony, welcome.
00:00:46
>> Carrick, it's good to be here. Thanks
00:00:47
for having me. And I saw Scott last week
00:00:50
in Davos. I enjoyed his commentary and u
00:00:54
well I enjoy your commentary.
00:00:56
>> Thank you, Anthony. Um, anyway, I'm
00:00:58
gonna call you Anthony, not the mooch
00:01:00
anymore. Okay. Um, I like that better.
00:01:02
You You sit up straight when I say
00:01:03
Anthony.
00:01:03
>> I'm sitting up straight. You You yelled
00:01:05
at me before we started to sit up
00:01:06
straight.
00:01:07
>> I get it because it's very serious ahead
00:01:09
of time. But but we are in a serious
00:01:11
zone today. And actually, I'm glad to
00:01:12
have you here because I do want to talk
00:01:14
about business people and their reaction
00:01:15
to what's happening uh in Minnesota and
00:01:18
elsewhere. But before we do anything,
00:01:19
I'd like to point out that as the
00:01:21
episode drops, it's been 39 days since
00:01:23
the deadline passed for the DJ to
00:01:25
release all the Epstein files. Again, uh
00:01:28
Pam Bondi is in violation of a law and
00:01:31
they have not released them and part of
00:01:34
this what's happening has to do with
00:01:36
this too. So let's not forget that they
00:01:38
are out there and probably as someone
00:01:41
noted on uh one of the social media
00:01:43
sites, they're safer than anything in
00:01:45
America right now are the Epstein files.
00:01:47
Um, anyway, we've got a lot to discuss,
00:01:50
so let's get to it. Uh, Donald Trump
00:01:52
says his administration is reviewing
00:01:54
everything surrounding the shooting
00:01:56
shooting of 37-year-old ICU nurse Alex
00:01:59
Prey in Minneapolis this weekend. He's
00:02:01
also now sending his borders Tom H.
00:02:03
Homeman to Minneapolis. The leading GOP
00:02:05
candidate for Minnesota Governor just
00:02:07
dropped out of the race, saying he can't
00:02:09
support the National Republican
00:02:10
retribution on the citizens of his
00:02:13
state. And as we record, a federal judge
00:02:14
is hearing arguments on temporarily
00:02:16
halting the immigration crackdown in
00:02:18
Minnesota. On the latest episode of On
00:02:20
with Cara Swisser, I spoke with
00:02:22
Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry. This was
00:02:24
before the Alex Py shooting, but Fry
00:02:27
knew another incident was inevitable.
00:02:29
Let's listen. For over a month before
00:02:33
Renee Good was shot, the chief of police
00:02:36
and I were both privately and publicly
00:02:39
expressing concerns that somebody was
00:02:41
going to get shot or killed. That either
00:02:43
a civilian, a resident, a police
00:02:44
officer, or an ICE agent was going to
00:02:46
get shot and killed. And tragically,
00:02:48
that happened. And then it happened
00:02:49
again. And by the way, it's going to
00:02:52
happen again on top of that. uh because
00:02:55
this is the kind of conduct that we're
00:02:57
seeing that inevitably will lead to
00:03:00
people getting hurt. Um
00:03:03
it's deeply concerning. Um
00:03:07
but it's not just Minneapolis that
00:03:10
should be concerned right now. I have a
00:03:13
deep concern for the endurance of our
00:03:16
republic when the constitutional norms
00:03:20
and these main stays of good governing
00:03:24
principles are thrown in the trash can.
00:03:27
>> Unfortunately, he was pressing although
00:03:29
I think a lot of people did understand
00:03:30
the escalating tensions there. I'll also
00:03:32
note I've been calling out CEOs for
00:03:34
their silence on this. As comedian Steve
00:03:36
Hoffsteader put it on threads, if
00:03:38
speaking out against fascism damages
00:03:41
your brand, that means your brand is
00:03:42
fascism. But since our last recording,
00:03:45
some execs are speaking out, at least in
00:03:47
Minnesota. On Sunday, more than 60 CEOs
00:03:49
of Minnesota based companies, including
00:03:51
Target, Best Buy, and 3M, released a
00:03:53
letter calling for deescalation. It took
00:03:54
them long enough. and more than 450 tech
00:03:57
workers uh from Google, uh Meta, OpenA,
00:04:00
and other companies have signed a letter
00:04:01
urging CEOs to demand ICE leave cities
00:04:03
and cancel company contracts with ICE.
00:04:05
Uh Scott and I talked about what
00:04:07
happened this weekend as a turning
00:04:08
point. Anthony, I'd love your thoughts
00:04:09
on this because you're you again, you
00:04:11
were just at Davos, tons of business
00:04:13
leaders. You obviously are tuned into
00:04:15
the political system. You are a
00:04:16
Republican who has turned away from the
00:04:18
Republican party um very early, I would
00:04:20
add. talk about what what is happening
00:04:23
here um from a you know obviously we're
00:04:26
all worried about uh the republic itself
00:04:28
as the mayor had but it's it's it's an
00:04:30
on the ground moving situation so I'd
00:04:33
love you to look at it from the business
00:04:34
point of view from Trump's point of view
00:04:36
and and your own
00:04:37
>> well well I I I I think it's important
00:04:39
to understand what they were trying to
00:04:41
do and how it backfired and we'll talk
00:04:43
about the business people so what they
00:04:45
were trying to do because I know these
00:04:47
sons of [ __ ] is they were trying to
00:04:49
set up a great media
00:04:52
exposition for themselves in the culture
00:04:54
war. And so here the narrative the uh
00:04:57
Minnesota blue state blue state is bad
00:05:01
corruption in the blue state is
00:05:03
conjoined. This is that conspiracy
00:05:05
nonsense.
00:05:06
>> Yeah, exactly. But it's a conspiracy
00:05:08
where
00:05:08
>> it is the greatest issue our nation
00:05:10
faces. The group of people who committed
00:05:12
fraud. You should just look at the White
00:05:13
House in any given day. But go ahead. I
00:05:15
I I I I I I I understand the push back
00:05:17
and we can talk about the Democrats, how
00:05:19
they should be responding better to it,
00:05:21
but I want you to understand what
00:05:22
they're doing. So, they're sitting there
00:05:24
saying, "Okay, this is great. We're
00:05:25
going to send the ICE people up there.
00:05:27
They're going to rough these people up,
00:05:30
and this is going to be great for our
00:05:31
culture war. Uh we're going to send a
00:05:34
signal to our red meat eating,
00:05:36
law-abiding people that we're getting
00:05:38
tough on people, particularly in the
00:05:40
blue states where they're doing quote
00:05:42
unquote all the fraud. Now they send
00:05:44
inexperienced ICE agents up there and we
00:05:47
we saw the videos and Trump saw the
00:05:49
videos which is why he's panicked and
00:05:51
they murdered the guy. I mean that's
00:05:53
basically what happened and now the
00:05:55
whole thing has blown back on them and
00:05:56
so this media imagery that they were
00:05:58
looking for has been a negative media
00:06:01
imagery. The problem
00:06:03
>> so just pictures you're saying just
00:06:04
photos.
00:06:05
>> Yeah. They they wanted a Fox News day of
00:06:09
programming where the day set from the A
00:06:11
block for 12 hours. Look at the Trump
00:06:14
administration, how tough ass they are
00:06:16
in action and we're we're defending the
00:06:20
Republic against fraud and we're mean
00:06:22
and we're tough and we're taking
00:06:24
5-year-olds because that's what we're
00:06:26
supposed to be doing. and they're
00:06:28
tonedeaf to the overall optics. And then
00:06:31
they created a Kent State like moment
00:06:34
for the older listeners, the younger
00:06:36
listeners, National Guardsman shot a
00:06:38
student at Kent State and it flipped the
00:06:41
entire political landscape at that time.
00:06:44
And so, so what's happening here is the
00:06:46
landscape is starting to flip. But
00:06:49
concominant to this is the chilling
00:06:52
effect that Donald Trump and his
00:06:55
Department of Justice and his
00:07:00
jack booted people have on business
00:07:02
leaders. So, hear me out for a second.
00:07:05
If you're on a corporate board and you
00:07:07
have a public CEO, you're telling the
00:07:09
guy or the woman, "Chill out, take a
00:07:12
back seat. There's 1,000 days left for
00:07:15
Trump." If you're the managing partner
00:07:17
of a law firm, negotiate with him. If
00:07:20
you're a president of a university,
00:07:21
negotiate with him. He's not quote
00:07:23
unquote Adolf Hitler. He's a lame duck
00:07:26
president. And while he's flexing on
00:07:28
you, take it. Don't overly criticize him
00:07:31
because he could do damage to our
00:07:33
long-term brand and damage to our
00:07:36
long-term stock market performance.
00:07:38
>> Okay? And that's short-term short-term.
00:07:40
But that's that's up against the stuff
00:07:42
that you just said about your brand is
00:07:44
fascism. Okay. So, the mistake that
00:07:47
they're all making is you have to reject
00:07:51
Donald Trump. If you don't flex on
00:07:53
Donald Trump and reject Donald Trump,
00:07:56
you'll be at a disadvantage. He'll
00:07:58
continue to roll you. European leaders,
00:08:00
wake up. Business leaders, wake up.
00:08:03
Somebody pick up the phone and call Mark
00:08:05
Carney, the prime minister of Canada,
00:08:08
and get some executive coaching, some
00:08:10
leadership coaching from him because he
00:08:13
gets it. Okay? You know, uh, Nuome is
00:08:16
close, by the way. Newsome would be
00:08:18
number two in terms of getting it. You
00:08:20
have to shove and push Trump back if
00:08:23
you're going to get any respect from
00:08:24
Donald Trump.
00:08:25
>> Can I ask you, you were at Davos, what
00:08:27
did Let me just say, I talked to them
00:08:29
behind the scenes, including people that
00:08:30
are close to Trump. Let me just say
00:08:32
like, couldn't so close they wouldn't
00:08:34
they could be on the other side of him.
00:08:36
They abhore him. It's really at one
00:08:39
point was with two people. I ran into on
00:08:42
a plane and they spent 20 minutes trying
00:08:44
to tell me, you know, we really can't
00:08:46
stand him. And I go, you need to shut
00:08:48
the [ __ ] up if you're not going to say
00:08:49
it publicly cuz I don't you're not going
00:08:51
to win my love because what you're doing
00:08:53
is so complicit. And so talk a little
00:08:56
bit about that because you're at Davos.
00:08:57
They obviously do they still shrug and
00:08:59
say because initially it was sort of the
00:09:01
shruggies with business we'll have to
00:09:04
deal with it and then he'll be gone like
00:09:06
this will this too will pass. Has that
00:09:08
did that change at all? Because the
00:09:10
Europeans got no Scott. Tell me why.
00:09:14
>> Uh because he's willing to do things
00:09:17
that other politicians were not willing
00:09:19
to do. He's willing to fudge the
00:09:22
Constitution. He's willing to overstep.
00:09:25
He's willing to detain you at the
00:09:27
airport. He's willing to uh put a
00:09:30
sanction against your business. He's
00:09:32
willing to do things that are outside of
00:09:35
the realm of due process. Right? So, you
00:09:37
have to remember to be in a safe and
00:09:40
free society, you have to be subordinate
00:09:42
to a set of laws and you have to have
00:09:44
due process. Did the young man that was
00:09:46
murdered this past weekend have due
00:09:48
process? No, he did not. They made a
00:09:50
decision to murder him indiscriminately.
00:09:52
Okay, that's authoritarianism.
00:09:54
When when leaders are turning guns on
00:09:57
their citizens, they care more about
00:10:00
power than they do their citizens,
00:10:02
right? And so these corporate leaders
00:10:04
are making a very big mistake. They're
00:10:06
they're cowtowing to Trump because they
00:10:09
feel he's got all the power and he's
00:10:11
going to use the power in an
00:10:12
unpredictable indiscriminate way to hurt
00:10:15
them. But if they were if they were
00:10:17
smarter, they would all team up. The
00:10:18
Fortune50 would team up like the 60 CEOs
00:10:22
in Minnesota and say, "Hey, listen. I'm
00:10:24
sorry guy. We're not going to take this
00:10:26
anymore. We're going to flood the zone
00:10:28
for Democratic donations. We're going to
00:10:30
try to get rid of your regime." Uh and
00:10:33
he's one man standing. You see this is
00:10:35
this is the problem.
00:10:36
>> Why don't they do that? Where are they
00:10:38
from?
00:10:38
>> They they don't they don't do that
00:10:40
because they're operating in their own
00:10:42
silos. Okay? And so when you operate in
00:10:44
your own silo car, you go to your board
00:10:46
and say, "What should I do?" And they
00:10:48
say, "Get out of the way."
00:10:50
>> Okay? But if you were operating
00:10:52
>> duck either duck or
00:10:53
>> duck if if the law firm Paul Weiss
00:10:56
called 50 other law firms and said,
00:10:59
"They're coming for me. They're
00:11:01
eventually going to come for you. What
00:11:02
do we do?" and they all teamed up. Now
00:11:04
they've got a voice, then they can push
00:11:06
back, right? If the Fortune 100 got
00:11:09
together like the Minnesota CEOs, uh,
00:11:13
you see, he's he got frightened. I know
00:11:15
this son of a [ __ ] He's a baby. You
00:11:18
know, most bullies are, okay? He looked
00:11:20
at the video. He said, "Holy [ __ ] we
00:11:22
murdered the guy." Which is why he told
00:11:24
the Wall Street Journal last night he's
00:11:25
reviewing everything. He called Governor
00:11:29
Waltz this morning and he put out a
00:11:30
friendly truth social about Governor
00:11:33
Waltz because he knows he's in trouble.
00:11:35
Okay, now he's got these CEOs. He's
00:11:37
looking at that saying, "Whoa, that's
00:11:39
3M. That's Target. These are big
00:11:41
companies. If they're coming for me and
00:11:45
I get wiped out in the midterms,
00:11:47
okay, or they start to reject
00:11:50
Republicanism, I just took a couple
00:11:52
billion dollars for myself. I'm gonna
00:11:55
end up and my family's going to end up
00:11:56
in wild investigations. So, you see what
00:11:59
he's doing? He's pulling back. That's
00:12:01
Trump's nature. Okay,
00:12:02
>> let me let me and yet they continue. On
00:12:05
the day of the shooting, this happened
00:12:06
in the morning. All these CEOs,
00:12:08
including Tim Cook, who is getting
00:12:10
blowback like you can't believe for
00:12:12
being in this Melania movie. Have you
00:12:14
seen it, Anthony?
00:12:16
>> The Melania, it's not on my list
00:12:18
actually, but if you if you see it, you
00:12:20
can report back to me.
00:12:21
>> It's selling out according to Donald
00:12:22
Trump. Of course it is, you know, but
00:12:24
but
00:12:25
>> it was like a one old lady with
00:12:27
Alzheimer's who wandered in like by
00:12:29
accident is is the group of people
00:12:31
watching.
00:12:32
>> I want to I want to tell you something
00:12:33
from history that your viewers and
00:12:36
listeners should think about. Uh when
00:12:39
Chamberlain headed for Munich to discuss
00:12:43
with Adolf Hitler uh his annexation
00:12:47
uh and what was going on there. The
00:12:49
German bureaucrats, okay, we've
00:12:51
discovered this in their diaries
00:12:54
50, 60, 80 years later. The German
00:12:56
bureaucrats were with great relief. They
00:12:58
were writing to each other and in their
00:13:00
diaries. Oh, this is great. The British
00:13:02
Empire is coming to Munich, represented
00:13:05
by Neville Chamberlain, and they're
00:13:07
going to flex on Adolf Hitler. It's
00:13:09
going to scare the daylights out of him,
00:13:11
and it's going to knock him out of
00:13:12
power. Thank God this last five years
00:13:16
have been a disaster for Germany and
00:13:19
he's going to get tough and knock Adolf
00:13:21
Hitler on his ass. Did that happen,
00:13:24
Cara? No, it did not happen. He went
00:13:26
there and he totally capitulated
00:13:29
>> and he he came back with a sheet of
00:13:31
paper said peace in our time and uh
00:13:34
Churchill said this is ridiculous.
00:13:36
You're allowing him this birth of
00:13:39
authoritarianism.
00:13:41
uh and five six seven you know 3 years
00:13:44
later 2 years later you're at war 5 6 7
00:13:47
years later 60 million people are killed
00:13:49
I'm not comparing Trump to Hitler I'm
00:13:51
just talking about behavior okay if
00:13:55
these CEOs and these business leaders
00:13:59
and political leaders got together and
00:14:01
said f you we're not going to take this
00:14:04
anymore they'll scare Mike Johnson
00:14:07
they'll scare the Republicans in the
00:14:09
Senate they'll push push back and and
00:14:12
they'll flip it, but they won't do it.
00:14:15
As long as Trump is intimidating you
00:14:17
oneon-one, Carara, he's going to beat
00:14:20
you because he's got the force of the
00:14:21
presidency in the federal government.
00:14:23
>> Sure. Sure. You have the economy, if
00:14:26
you're calling, you see, see Jamie Jamie
00:14:28
Diamond,
00:14:30
>> who's he suing? Whom he suing?
00:14:32
>> Oh, yeah. Well, let's just talk about
00:14:33
this for a second. He said three or four
00:14:35
things that Trump did not like. Okay.
00:14:38
Number one, he wants the Fed to be
00:14:40
independent. He doesn't like the lawsuit
00:14:42
and the criminal investigation against
00:14:44
Jerome Pal. Number two, he said, "I'm
00:14:46
not giving money to the ballroom because
00:14:48
if I give money to the ballroom, the
00:14:50
next administration is going to say,
00:14:52
hey, jackass, you were trying to
00:14:53
blackmail, you know, you were getting
00:14:55
blackmailed and you were paying bribe
00:14:57
money to the president." So, so he's
00:15:00
pretty open, pretty honest guy. I full
00:15:03
disclosure, I know Jaime personally. I
00:15:05
love Jaime. I think he's one of the more
00:15:06
brilliant financial services executives
00:15:09
in our history. So, he pretty honest.
00:15:13
And then what does Trump do? You can
00:15:15
bring the hammer down on him. He's going
00:15:16
to bring a $5 million lawsuit, which of
00:15:18
course he'll lose. And he's bringing a
00:15:20
lawsuit against Jaime personally and the
00:15:22
bank. He'll lose the lawsuit. But this
00:15:24
is a massive chilling effect.
00:15:27
>> Okay.
00:15:28
>> Or would Jamie say you're going to
00:15:29
[ __ ] lose
00:15:31
massive chilling effect. Did you see
00:15:33
what he just did to Jamie Diamond?
00:15:35
Listen to me.
00:15:35
>> You didn't do it. It did. Nothing is
00:15:37
going to happen. That's the thing. I
00:15:39
just don't I don't know why they don't
00:15:41
get the the next step. You know, you
00:15:43
grew up like I did. You know, you're
00:15:45
Italian. You don't give a [ __ ] Okay.
00:15:47
You know, I don't give a [ __ ] I'm ready
00:15:49
to fight.
00:15:50
>> You know, cuz I grew up here on Long
00:15:52
Island. We were doing push-ups in the
00:15:54
parking lot outside of discos getting
00:15:56
ready to fight people. Okay. I don't
00:15:58
give a [ __ ] I will fight Trump every
00:16:00
step of the way. Okay. which is probably
00:16:03
why he hasn't come after me because he
00:16:05
knows, okay, if he sues me, we're going
00:16:06
to have a great time. I'm going to pick
00:16:08
up a million Twitter followers and let's
00:16:10
go. These guys are afraid of him because
00:16:14
they see themselves as having too much
00:16:16
to lose. But what they're missing is
00:16:19
society has too much to lose if they
00:16:22
don't get together and they don't coales
00:16:25
with each other.
00:16:25
>> I don't even think that they're going to
00:16:27
I mean he's he's suing Capital One too
00:16:29
for people who don't know. And again,
00:16:31
this comes after Diamond warned Trump
00:16:33
not to interfere with the Fed and and
00:16:36
called his proposal, by the way, the
00:16:37
third thing to cap credit interest rates
00:16:39
and economic disaster. So, he was
00:16:41
critical normally as any CEO is allowed
00:16:43
to be. And but I I just I like he's not
00:16:48
it's like
00:16:49
>> he's not but Cara, you understand human
00:16:52
nature. I've read your books, burn book,
00:16:54
blah blah. You understand human nature
00:16:57
better than you're letting on. There's a
00:16:59
impulsive weakness up against
00:17:02
authoritarianism. There is people
00:17:05
>> I get someone like Jamie Diamond. I'm
00:17:07
I'm surprised if he's not pushing back
00:17:09
behind the scenes very strongly.
00:17:11
>> Oh, no, no, no. I I I I think he is. I
00:17:14
>> He doesn't look like he's easily capped.
00:17:16
No, he he's looking at the situation
00:17:19
snickering and he's like, I'm going to
00:17:21
wait this guy out, which he's going to
00:17:23
do, and he'll win the case, which he
00:17:25
will, but it's a message. It's a message
00:17:28
to others. You don't want to get in my
00:17:31
crosshairs. Okay? when when when a when
00:17:34
a when a cabinet member from Trump one
00:17:37
comes to my office, sits on the sofa and
00:17:40
says, "Listen, most cabinet members are
00:17:43
trying to avoid a Trump tweet and some
00:17:47
level of humiliation." Why is that, sir?
00:17:51
Well, it could be career ruining for us
00:17:53
if we do that. No,
00:17:55
>> that's okay. But Cara, that's how they
00:17:57
think. Cara, I just know how they think.
00:18:00
Poker. I want to play poker with these
00:18:02
people. Now, let me ask you about the
00:18:04
You mentioned the Democrats. All right.
00:18:05
So, the business leaders are going to
00:18:07
the ones that I think are in trouble are
00:18:09
like a Tim Cook because Apple has a
00:18:12
different set of values that it's pushed
00:18:13
for so long and here he is doing this
00:18:15
and particularly he's standing next to
00:18:17
Brett Ratner. That piece of [ __ ] um you
00:18:21
know at a movie nobody wants to see,
00:18:23
right? I don't I get that he wants the
00:18:25
tarot sauce. I get that he wants things
00:18:27
but you don't have to go this far,
00:18:29
right? You can sort of hide like a Bob
00:18:32
Iger. You don't see him. He doesn't show
00:18:34
up there. He doesn't say much, but he's
00:18:36
not there, right? He's not present.
00:18:40
>> Why be present is what I want to
00:18:42
understand.
00:18:42
>> Well, okay. So, in Patrick McGee's book,
00:18:45
Apple and China,
00:18:47
>> uh we learn, okay, it's a phenomenal
00:18:49
book. I thought it was the business book
00:18:51
of the year. And he talks about how
00:18:54
entrenched Apple is in China. And so Tim
00:18:58
is saying to himself, I got to get Trump
00:19:00
off my back and Apple's back because I'm
00:19:05
minting money with this iPhone 17. I've
00:19:07
got new products coming out. Whether
00:19:09
people like it or not, most of the
00:19:11
manufacturing is in China. I can virtue
00:19:13
signal that it's moving to India or
00:19:15
other places, but that's where it is.
00:19:17
And if Trump is off my back, that's
00:19:19
really good for my shareholders. Okay.
00:19:21
But but but
00:19:23
where is the line? and you're better at
00:19:27
drawing the line than he is obviously
00:19:29
because he's looking around and saying,
00:19:32
"No problem. I'll show up at the the
00:19:34
screening." Okay. But he happens to be
00:19:36
showing up at the screening where
00:19:38
there's a murder where there's a murder
00:19:40
taking place. He happens to show up at a
00:19:42
screening where Trump is telling our
00:19:45
NATO allies that he's going to invade
00:19:47
Greenland. And he's sending out maps on
00:19:50
social media where he's got the
00:19:52
provinces of Canada flagged alongside of
00:19:55
Venezuela, Cuba, and and Greenland,
00:19:58
right? And also Iceland. I don't know if
00:19:59
you noticed that Iceland was in there as
00:20:01
well. And so again, that that's the
00:20:04
trolling of Donald Trump. I get it. He's
00:20:06
a culture warrior. He wants to troll
00:20:08
everybody. He wants to set all the the
00:20:10
liberals hair on fire. I get all of
00:20:13
that. But where where Tim is sitting
00:20:15
there, he's saying to himself, I'm going
00:20:17
to give this guy a gold emulet like I
00:20:20
did a couple of months ago. I'm going to
00:20:22
shove my whole head up his ass because
00:20:25
of the situation. That's
00:20:27
>> I mean, come on.
00:20:28
>> That's the new That's the next season of
00:20:29
Heated Rivalry. Go ahead.
00:20:30
>> No, but I mean, come on. You can barely
00:20:31
see Tim's ankles hanging out of Trump's
00:20:34
ass. Okay. So, so, so to me, I I'm I'm
00:20:37
not their adviser and they would never
00:20:39
take any advice from me, but maybe they
00:20:41
would take advice from Mark Carney
00:20:43
because to me, if you collectively push
00:20:46
back on him, he folds like a paper suit.
00:20:51
You know, he he looked at the letter
00:20:53
coming in from Minnesota. He looked at
00:20:55
the video. He said, "I got to I got to I
00:20:58
got to move out Jailhouse Barbie
00:21:00
Christine Noom. I got to get Jailhouse
00:21:02
Barbie off the playing field. We're
00:21:04
going to put, you know, take the bribe
00:21:05
Honen back on the playing field, the 50
00:21:07
grand in cash.
00:21:08
>> Drunk. I call it drunk.
00:21:09
>> All right. We're going to put him back
00:21:10
in.
00:21:11
>> Okay. And I'm going to acquies here and
00:21:14
I'm going to find a way to exit this
00:21:17
disastrous situation. But but you see
00:21:19
the the real question though for me is
00:21:23
how are we letting Stephen Miller, who
00:21:26
couldn't get confirmed as a dog catcher,
00:21:29
forget about anything else.
00:21:30
>> So you explained you were there with
00:21:31
him.
00:21:32
>> This this evil Well, I'm going to tell
00:21:34
you how. Because Steven Miller bought
00:21:36
call ops on the worst day of Trump's
00:21:38
political life, which was January 6,
00:21:42
2021,
00:21:44
where Kevin McCarthy said he's finished.
00:21:46
McConnell said he's finished. They told
00:21:49
Pelosi, "We don't need to impeach and
00:21:50
remove him from office because he's
00:21:51
politically finished after what he did."
00:21:54
Mr. Miller bought call options on
00:21:57
Trump's electoral success in 2024.
00:22:00
Nobody else bought those call options.
00:22:02
And then Miller said, "This is
00:22:04
fantastic. I'm an evil guy. I hate
00:22:07
people and I want to inflict pain on
00:22:09
people." And Trump is my empty vessel to
00:22:12
get back into the White House. And oh,
00:22:14
by the way, we're going to have four
00:22:15
years to prepare ourselves to be even
00:22:18
more dastardly and more evil and to
00:22:21
remove more normal people out of the
00:22:23
checks and balances of Trump one. We're
00:22:26
going to have lap dogs in Trump 2 like
00:22:28
Bent and Buttlick or Nutlick, whatever
00:22:32
the I mean, the biggest [ __ ] on
00:22:33
earth. We're we're going to have these
00:22:35
people in position,
00:22:37
>> okay? And then I'm going to rule the
00:22:39
roost. I'm writing all the speeches. You
00:22:41
know, you can throw this [ __ ] through
00:22:42
chat GBT. You say, "Who who does this
00:22:44
sound like?" It's the writings of Steven
00:22:46
Miller. And so he's writing the
00:22:48
speeches. He's promulgating the policy.
00:22:50
How is he
00:22:51
>> Because he bought those call options. He
00:22:52
bought those call options. See that? I
00:22:55
mean, he is a whatever he is, he's like
00:22:57
an old crocodile. He's got to see that.
00:22:59
>> The the only way Trump will see it is if
00:23:01
you start saying Trump is the lap dog of
00:23:05
Steven Miller. The administration's
00:23:07
being run by Steven Miller. Trump will
00:23:09
absolutely hate that.
00:23:11
>> Okay? And it's like when they were
00:23:12
saying President Bannon,
00:23:14
>> when the President Bannon Time magazine
00:23:16
cover came out, he got hit with a ray
00:23:18
gun, knocked out of the administration.
00:23:21
And so, but Miller is running the
00:23:24
administration. He's running domestic
00:23:26
policy. He's running international
00:23:28
policy. He's writing the speeches about
00:23:31
Venezuela in Greenland. And he is
00:23:34
sitting
00:23:34
>> Does he have any foe internally? Give us
00:23:36
one insight into him. Have you have
00:23:38
spent time with him? So, give us one.
00:23:42
Look, I used to fight with
00:23:43
>> besides that he looks like a cartoon.
00:23:44
>> Let me let me tell you him and I were
00:23:47
not friends. I used to fight with him
00:23:49
left and right. There was one situation
00:23:51
in the 2016 campaign where I called him
00:23:54
up and read him the riot act cuz he was
00:23:56
treating donors with this like you know
00:23:58
lack of emotional attention uh and this
00:24:02
sort of costic
00:24:04
uh you know you know arrogant super
00:24:06
sillious way. So look he's a terrible
00:24:10
person. I think we can stipulate that
00:24:11
just by his behavior and his actions but
00:24:15
it fits Trump's narrative. Okay. Because
00:24:17
Trump likes hurting people. Trump likes
00:24:20
humiliating people. He likes hurting
00:24:22
people. He wants to denigrate people and
00:24:26
make them feel bad, you know. And then
00:24:28
and then when he gets himself in
00:24:29
trouble, he will walk it back like he
00:24:31
did with the UK war veterans. He had to
00:24:34
send out a a missive to Stormer because
00:24:37
it was ridiculous the heat that he was
00:24:38
getting. But but this is what these
00:24:40
people are like. And and and the problem
00:24:43
is the waiting it out strategy. If
00:24:46
you're a corporate board official and
00:24:50
you are on one of these corporate
00:24:51
boards, Fortune 500, and you listen to
00:24:53
Carara and Scott, let me here. Are are
00:24:57
you listening? Let me tell you what you
00:24:58
got to do. You got to get your CEO in
00:25:01
position to join forces and create
00:25:04
alliances with his other CEOs, he or
00:25:07
she,
00:25:08
>> and push back on Trump. You cannot wait
00:25:11
1 th000 days, Cara.
00:25:13
>> No, we've said that. We talked about
00:25:16
>> you got to get your [ __ ] together. You
00:25:17
got to get your [ __ ] together right now
00:25:20
>> and on behalf of the American people and
00:25:23
channel what those German bureaucrats
00:25:25
wanted from Neville Chamberlain.
00:25:28
>> Don't be a Neville Chamberlain and wait
00:25:29
the 10,000 days. Too late. It's going to
00:25:32
be too much existential damage done to
00:25:34
your company by the way and the United
00:25:36
States.
00:25:36
>> What they do think is the Democrats
00:25:38
won't do anything, right? Trump will
00:25:39
punish them. Democrats won't. I'm here
00:25:41
to tell you I want to make sure the
00:25:43
Democrats punish you all, all you tech
00:25:45
executives. I promise that we will. We
00:25:48
have long memories, as they say, and I
00:25:50
will make certain of that. I will bother
00:25:52
these Democrats forever. But let me ask
00:25:54
you, which the Democrats
00:25:55
>> The Democrats suck, though. Let me just
00:25:56
hear me out for a second.
00:25:57
>> We all agree. You know, the the
00:25:59
Republicans are evil, okay? So, they
00:26:02
suck more. But the Democrats suck
00:26:04
because they can't get their [ __ ]
00:26:06
together. If they if they could get
00:26:07
their [ __ ] together, they would channel
00:26:10
N. Gindrich. Okay, and hear me out for a
00:26:12
second because you're old enough to
00:26:13
remember this. In 1994, Nuke Kindred
00:26:16
said, "Hey, we're going to we're going
00:26:17
to combat Clinton. We're going to all
00:26:20
unify and we're get our ducks in an
00:26:22
order. Here's our 10-point contract with
00:26:24
America. Everybody's signing on to this
00:26:27
and then when we get power, we're going
00:26:29
to flex." The Democrats have to have the
00:26:32
doppelganger of the 1994 contract with
00:26:35
America. And even though they don't like
00:26:37
each other and AOC doesn't see eye to
00:26:39
eye with Gavin Newsome, get it together,
00:26:42
fellas. Get in a room.
00:26:44
>> So they threatened to trigger a partial
00:26:46
government shutdown withholding each
00:26:47
other. It's funny, but that's small ball
00:26:49
is what you're saying.
00:26:49
>> But not only is that small ball, that's
00:26:51
a disaster. You're a capital markets
00:26:53
person. Look at where the US dollar is
00:26:56
trading, the Japanese yen is trading.
00:26:58
Look at where gold and silver is
00:26:59
trading. We're in full-on currency
00:27:02
debasement. You know, Trump thinks he
00:27:04
can get out there and do his reality TV
00:27:07
nonsense without consequence. But people
00:27:09
are pulling away from the dollar.
00:27:11
They're forming unnatural alliances.
00:27:13
Carney is going to China. The dollar is
00:27:16
weakening. Gold is going up. People are
00:27:19
finding ways to barter with each other
00:27:20
outside of the petro dollar system. And
00:27:24
and Ray Gallo is going to be right,
00:27:26
guys. You want to shut the government
00:27:28
down. You're going to further weaken the
00:27:30
US dollar. Don't do it. That is
00:27:32
>> what other choice they have. They can't
00:27:34
fund
00:27:35
>> DHS. Correct. They they also can't
00:27:38
politically fund them.
00:27:40
>> What's the choice? There is no choice.
00:27:42
Correct,
00:27:43
>> Cara. There's no choice because we're in
00:27:45
accordion and not with each other. But
00:27:48
if they shut the government down, I
00:27:50
would rather have them fund DHS and have
00:27:54
the help of corporate CEOs and law
00:27:57
enforcement. you know that local law
00:28:00
enforcement is against ICE.
00:28:02
>> Get together people, okay? Develop a
00:28:05
communication strategy. Fund it,
00:28:08
>> but have an overwhelming group of people
00:28:11
push back on it. You don't want to shut
00:28:14
the government down when we are facing
00:28:17
our own economic peril. We're sitting on
00:28:20
a debt time bomb that's running towards
00:28:23
$40 trillion.
00:28:24
>> Doesn't that hurt Trump more? like you
00:28:27
have to sacrifice the village to save
00:28:30
the country.
00:28:31
>> I don't I don't I don't It's not going
00:28:33
to hurt Trump himself more. It's going
00:28:35
to hurt the man on the street more.
00:28:36
>> Correct.
00:28:37
>> Our our dollar has lost 28% of its value
00:28:40
since January of 2020. Okay. If you own
00:28:43
assets, Cara, you're fine. But if you're
00:28:46
like my dad, my deceased father, who
00:28:48
worked an hour and got an hourly wage
00:28:51
and had no assets, you you you you took
00:28:54
30% of it. You took 30% of his life away
00:28:56
from him. You gota we've got three or
00:28:59
four things happening in parallel tracks
00:29:02
that you know we we can control the card
00:29:05
table and we can maintain our mantle of
00:29:08
of financial services leadership and our
00:29:11
mantle of global leadership but we've
00:29:13
got to change the narrative. And the way
00:29:15
you change the narrative is through
00:29:17
coordinated opposition. Trump is banking
00:29:20
on the fact that the liberals are so
00:29:23
self-righteous and so picky with each
00:29:26
other that they'll have interessent
00:29:28
fights with each other as opposed to
00:29:31
coordinate and go after him. But they
00:29:34
could do that. They could go to the
00:29:36
cooks. They could go to the CEO of 3M
00:29:39
and they can say, "Okay, listen. We This
00:29:41
is not good for America. We don't want
00:29:43
our people murdered in the street. It's
00:29:45
bad for economic innovation. It's bad
00:29:47
for capital flows into America. Uh we
00:29:50
have to fight back. There are two people
00:29:53
Steven Miller and Donald Trump and
00:29:55
there's us. And there's a force majour
00:29:57
of us that can overwhelm them if we
00:30:00
coordinate with each other. And Trump is
00:30:03
banking on the fact that they won't do
00:30:05
that.
00:30:05
>> What's the actual move then besides
00:30:07
let's coordinate what precisely from a
00:30:10
business? Scott and I talked about an
00:30:12
economic boycott. Holy, wholly and
00:30:15
totally denounce ICE alongside of local
00:30:17
law enforcement, push back on them. You
00:30:20
create resistance, civil disobedience
00:30:22
resistance zones, okay? Alongside of
00:30:25
citizens that are willing to protest,
00:30:27
they got to show up unarmed so there's
00:30:28
no excuse to shoot at them. Uh you then
00:30:31
have to you then have to push the
00:30:33
president into a box and you have to go
00:30:35
to the Republicans and say sorry no more
00:30:38
money for Republicans for reelection
00:30:40
because all these people really care
00:30:42
about car is the money going into their
00:30:44
so the way excuse me those business
00:30:46
leaders could be an economic boycott a
00:30:48
really sustained one for example we're
00:30:51
going to get the Democrats have to say
00:30:52
we will hurt you
00:30:54
>> also in different ways
00:30:56
>> I I I just think and I and I heard you
00:30:58
guys and and I understand where Scott's
00:31:00
coming from and he's right. It's a very
00:31:02
good civil disobedient move. I would
00:31:05
like to try something else first before
00:31:08
we go there because that's going to harm
00:31:11
the people that we don't want to harm
00:31:14
the most. Do you understand what I'm
00:31:15
saying?
00:31:16
>> I get it.
00:31:16
>> And I understand what you're saying. You
00:31:17
got to burn down the village sometimes
00:31:18
to save the whole state. I get all that.
00:31:21
But let's try something different. These
00:31:23
are two people. We know this from the
00:31:26
schoolyard. the bullies when you team up
00:31:29
against the bully.
00:31:30
>> Yes, we've seen that movie.
00:31:32
>> You knock you knock the bully into next
00:31:33
week.
00:31:34
>> All right, last question. Is there
00:31:35
anybody in that White House that has
00:31:37
control other than Steven Miller? Susie
00:31:39
Wilds doesn't seem to she tried to get
00:31:41
out. It looks like
00:31:42
>> Susie Wilds doesn't give a [ __ ] She's
00:31:44
looking for her next lobbying gig. You
00:31:46
know that. And look, read the interview.
00:31:47
She's like, I'm trying to say this [ __ ]
00:31:49
about these people so that when I get
00:31:51
out on the outside, you think I'm quasi
00:31:53
normal.
00:31:54
>> By the way, Susie, we see you. So, Come
00:31:57
on. I mean, Mrs. Dowfire, I mean, this
00:31:58
lady is this lady ruined herself.
00:32:01
>> No, come on. You You
00:32:03
>> I'm just curious.
00:32:04
>> The only The only good news here
00:32:07
>> is that just dumb Vance, J. D. Vance is
00:32:11
so delusional. He thinks he's the heir
00:32:14
to Trump and he thinks he's going to be
00:32:16
the 48th president. And I'm telling you
00:32:19
that JD Vance is actually sitting on a
00:32:22
bomb that's going to blow up on him.
00:32:25
Okay, just give it a year or two and
00:32:27
this whole thing's going to blow up on
00:32:28
him. He's going to be the poster child
00:32:31
for the Trump menagerie of evil. And so
00:32:36
that is that is good news, by the way,
00:32:38
because he'll get
00:32:38
>> I think he doesn't like himself very
00:32:40
much.
00:32:40
>> Well, he's going to get he's going to
00:32:42
get knocked out of the game. Okay. So,
00:32:44
that's very good news.
00:32:45
>> You know, I call him the cyber truck of
00:32:46
politicians, but go ahead.
00:32:48
>> Tell me why.
00:32:49
>> Because he's it's he repels people. He
00:32:52
repels voters. Like you look I I'm
00:32:55
telling you I was when you when you see
00:32:57
a Cybert truck it repel people you could
00:32:59
see people pull back when they see it
00:33:01
and whatever you think of Elon it's
00:33:03
still a repellent vehicle right you you
00:33:05
may like him and you don't like that
00:33:07
thing I was driving a Volkswagen ID Buzz
00:33:09
and everybody like runs towards you
00:33:11
because it looks like a dinosaur driving
00:33:14
down the street happy dinosaur I I'm a
00:33:17
minor player in all said but when you
00:33:19
used to light my ass up on Twitter I
00:33:21
used to laugh but I gota I got to tell
00:33:23
When you're lighting Elon Musk up on
00:33:25
Twitter or you're saying this [ __ ] about
00:33:26
him on the podcast, I don't think he's
00:33:28
laughing. Okay. I think you're like,
00:33:29
>> "Oh, you know what?
00:33:32
>> I think you're there's a little boy
00:33:34
inside who who missing the love of his
00:33:38
parents who's laughing. Trust me."
00:33:39
>> All right. Well, hope may someday.
00:33:41
>> Not that I want to help him at all.
00:33:43
>> If you ever repair your relationship
00:33:44
with Elon, I want to be there to smoke
00:33:45
the peace pipe with you.
00:33:46
>> Never.
00:33:47
>> I I I knew that was going to be the end.
00:33:49
>> Not happening. You You took it well.
00:33:51
That's all I'll say. Let's go on a quick
00:33:53
break. When we come back, uh, what Trump
00:33:55
is saying about his health, or lack
00:33:56
thereof. Support for this show comes
00:33:59
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jointdeleteme.com/pivotcode
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pivot. Anthony, we're back with more
00:35:18
news. There's been speculation about
00:35:19
Trump's health for months, and a new
00:35:20
story in New York Magazine has him going
00:35:22
on the record about it. Trump talks
00:35:23
about his father's medical history, at
00:35:25
one point, struggling to come up with
00:35:26
the word Alzheimer's, then insisting he
00:35:29
does not have it. He also blames uh
00:35:31
women's fingernails and rings for cuts
00:35:33
on his hands. Trump's doctor says he did
00:35:35
not have an MRI, but an MRI like scan of
00:35:38
his chest and abdomen. I don't know what
00:35:39
that is. and the results were quote
00:35:41
perfect. And of course, Trump threatens
00:35:43
to sue the ass off New York Magazine if
00:35:45
he decides he doesn't like the story. I
00:35:47
don't think New York Magazine, as one of
00:35:49
the shareholders, gives a [ __ ] So, uh,
00:35:52
what do you think is really going on
00:35:54
here with this? He's got to face the the
00:35:56
healthc care stuff, right? Because Biden
00:35:58
didn't presumably
00:36:00
>> physically I mean, listen, you know,
00:36:02
you're you know, it's primmaaccia. He's
00:36:04
unwell. You don't you know if you if if
00:36:07
if someone gets busted on a football
00:36:09
field and the bone is sticking out of
00:36:12
the uniform, you don't you don't have to
00:36:14
be an orthopedic surgeon to know that
00:36:16
the bone is broken. You know, it's not
00:36:18
like that. The guy is unwell, okay? He's
00:36:21
unwell physically. He has an unsteady
00:36:23
gate. They put the red carpet out for
00:36:24
him in Davos. He wobbled down the carpet
00:36:27
like he did in August with Putin. He's
00:36:29
got bruises all over his hands, which
00:36:31
looks like they're infusion bruises.
00:36:32
They're not bumping up against the
00:36:34
signing desk when you have that level of
00:36:36
contusion on your hand. He looks
00:36:40
terrible. If you look at the orange
00:36:42
makeup and you contrast it to the pour
00:36:45
of his hands, he looks absolutely
00:36:49
terrible. I'm not a I'm not a doctor.
00:36:51
I'm just telling you primmaaccia. He
00:36:54
looks unwell. He's forgetful. He doesn't
00:36:56
remember the word Alzheimer's. He
00:36:58
doesn't remember people standing in
00:37:00
front of him. Uh he's getting
00:37:03
interviewed and they say you said the
00:37:04
following. He said I never said that.
00:37:06
Then they play the recording of him
00:37:08
saying it and but he looks like he's
00:37:11
telling the truth. Meaning he's demented
00:37:13
in a way where he doesn't remember it.
00:37:14
Yeah. He's demented in a way he could
00:37:16
probably pass the lie detector test. So
00:37:17
>> I mean he's a liar but it seems to me
00:37:19
that he doesn't remember it actually.
00:37:21
>> Yeah. I'm sure he's lying knowingly but
00:37:23
I think there's also lies coming out of
00:37:25
his mouth where he doesn't remember
00:37:26
anymore. So, so also the New York Times
00:37:29
reported something which I think is very
00:37:31
critical and very similar to Biden.
00:37:33
They're managing his schedule for 5
00:37:35
hours a day. They said it's 12 to 5 and
00:37:38
then they they pull him out of there or
00:37:40
if he's got to go late night, they'll
00:37:41
start him at 5 and they'll end him at
00:37:43
10. Okay, he's an elderly man. He's
00:37:46
about to turn 80. It's arguably the
00:37:48
toughest job in the world. He hauls
00:37:50
himself around. Okay. He's moving
00:37:53
himself from national football game
00:37:55
championships to Davos, back to Florida,
00:37:58
back to Washington. He's moving himself
00:38:01
around a lot. Uh, and that in itself is
00:38:04
tiring and dehydrating. And, and so, so
00:38:07
to me, they're going to lie about it
00:38:09
like the Biden people lied about it.
00:38:11
Okay, that's just the facts of it. And
00:38:14
and this is why I'm saying Miller
00:38:17
advantage to Miller because if Trump's
00:38:19
got five again, whatever you think of
00:38:21
Trump, I can tell you if you show Trump
00:38:25
a video of a guy getting innocently
00:38:27
murdered.
00:38:28
>> Mhm.
00:38:29
>> Even his egoomaniac narcissism is like,
00:38:32
[ __ ] that's not good for me.
00:38:34
>> He's looking at the video. He may not
00:38:36
have any compassion for that man or the
00:38:38
man's family, but he's smart enough to
00:38:41
know that ain't good for me.
00:38:43
>> Steven Miller's not smart enough to know
00:38:45
that. He's calling the guy an assassin
00:38:47
and a domestic terrorist and all this
00:38:50
idiocy. But the point about the illness
00:38:52
that people should really focus on is
00:38:55
that if he's only got five hours a day
00:38:58
where he's present, the other 19 hours
00:39:02
are going to Steven Miller. Don't forget
00:39:04
that. Okay, Stephen Miller is writing
00:39:06
the policy. Stephen Miller's talking to
00:39:08
ICE. Stephen Miller's on the phone with
00:39:11
Marco Rubio. Uh, you know, you know, the
00:39:13
joke inside the White House is, "Hey,
00:39:15
Stephen, we got a question for you.
00:39:17
We're going to make you vice roy of
00:39:19
Venezuela, but then when you get down
00:39:21
there, where are you going to deport
00:39:22
this Venezuelans to?"
00:39:25
Right? That's the joke inside the White
00:39:26
House. And of course, Miller looks at
00:39:28
them and he's all pissed and he he
00:39:29
doesn't answer them.
00:39:31
>> Right? But but but but the point is
00:39:34
Trump's weakness. There's a vacuum and
00:39:38
the void is being
00:39:40
>> filled by a very
00:39:42
>> a very evil this MF. He couldn't get dog
00:39:47
catcher confirmation. This MF, okay? And
00:39:50
he's sitting there. We had a 250year
00:39:53
experiment with a republic with real
00:39:55
checks and balances. And this guy,
00:39:57
because he was hated in high school and
00:39:59
he still wants to take it out on the
00:40:01
rest of us, is gonna run rough shot over
00:40:03
all of us because you have willing
00:40:06
accompllices, Carara. Uh, and those
00:40:08
willing accompllices are the Republicans
00:40:11
and the secondary willing accompllices
00:40:13
are the private sector smarty pants
00:40:16
billionaires that are afraid of Steven
00:40:19
Miller. How could you guys be afraid of
00:40:21
Steven Miller? Are you guys serious?
00:40:22
Were you that big of a nerd group in in
00:40:25
the high school cafeteria to be afraid
00:40:27
of Steven Miller?
00:40:29
>> What are you guys doing?
00:40:30
>> Take on Steven Miller.
00:40:32
>> That back to his health. What What do
00:40:33
they do when it becomes I mean it is
00:40:35
apparent that he's I've been saying this
00:40:37
for a year because I have relatives.
00:40:40
I've seen it like I've seen friends who
00:40:41
had Alzheimer's and the signs are rather
00:40:44
significant of some sort of dementia.
00:40:46
But what do they do when it gets what is
00:40:49
there something that could besides him
00:40:51
falling down which seems inevitable and
00:40:53
breaking a hip? Um what what what's the
00:40:56
next thing if if five hours is all you
00:40:59
can get?
00:41:00
>> Well, listen to just hold them up like
00:41:02
weekend at Bernie.
00:41:03
>> Do your do your reporting. You've got
00:41:05
excellent sources. We we know that Vance
00:41:07
met with Musk and told Musk, "Please
00:41:09
cool out on America's party. Uh you
00:41:12
know, Trump's time is coming. I'm going
00:41:14
to be the 48th president likely by
00:41:17
default and all the tech oligarchs will
00:41:20
be in there with me. Uh, drop the
00:41:22
America's party and and Mus said, "No
00:41:24
problem."
00:41:25
>> Uh, you know, they're they're they're
00:41:27
all they're all statistitians. They're
00:41:29
looking at 1,000 days
00:41:32
>> and they're looking at the a declining
00:41:35
mental acuity of a president and they're
00:41:37
saying, "Is it a year from now where
00:41:39
people look around and say, "Hey, man,
00:41:40
25th Amendment, in comes Vance. Is it 2
00:41:43
years from now? Can Trump make it to 3
00:41:47
years? I think he'll be alive in 3
00:41:49
years, but the question is, will he be
00:41:52
mentally cognitive to the point where
00:41:54
it's not overwhelmingly obvious to
00:41:57
everybody how bad it is? And so, I don't
00:42:00
know the answer to that, but if I I'm a
00:42:01
betting person, there's a percentage. If
00:42:05
you're a tech prolark, you're like,
00:42:06
"Okay, there's a 10 percent to 30%
00:42:09
chance that Vance is going to serve out
00:42:11
Trump's term and run for reelection in
00:42:14
28." And and that's also another reason
00:42:18
why they're not fighting as hard as they
00:42:21
should be because they're waiting the
00:42:23
thing out,
00:42:24
>> right? They're wait because of, you
00:42:25
know, actuarial tails is what you're
00:42:28
talking about essentially. Exactly.
00:42:29
Scott says, "Biology is undefeated." So
00:42:32
the the let me it's a terrible choice to
00:42:35
have to make, but if you could pick
00:42:37
Trump being in office at at a disa in a
00:42:41
disabled way versus Vance becoming
00:42:43
president, which one would you choose?
00:42:47
>> Okay, let me get the vomit bag out
00:42:48
first. Let me blow chow into the vomit
00:42:50
bag. Hold on a second.
00:42:52
>> That game you play, which would you
00:42:54
>> Okay. All right. Now, let me Now make
00:42:56
the Let me tell you what you got to go
00:42:58
advance. Okay. And let me tell you why.
00:43:00
Okay.
00:43:00
>> All right. Because Vance has no power
00:43:04
and even if he's president of the United
00:43:05
States, he doesn't have a personality
00:43:08
cult around him. Okay? And Vance cannot
00:43:12
keep that coalition together. He doesn't
00:43:14
understand how to do it. Trump kept Nick
00:43:17
Fuentes,
00:43:19
Ben Shapiro, and Tucker Carlson in the
00:43:23
same coalition. Imagine that. Okay? and
00:43:26
he because it's the strength of his
00:43:28
personality and the personality cult
00:43:30
around him as a political figure. Vance
00:43:32
has none of that. Let me give a specific
00:43:34
example. When they were fighting over
00:43:37
the beef quotas coming in from Argent,
00:43:41
the Argentinian beef quotas and they
00:43:43
were fighting over the beef coming in
00:43:45
from Argentina. They excoriated Vance in
00:43:49
the Senate. They would never do that to
00:43:52
Donald Trump because they're afraid
00:43:53
Donald Trump would send out a tweet and
00:43:55
say, "I'm now supporting this person to
00:43:57
the far right of Bill Cassidy. I'm no
00:43:59
longer supporting Bill Cassidy, the
00:44:01
senator from
00:44:02
>> who found balls recently somehow."
00:44:04
>> Well, thank God he him and a few others,
00:44:06
but
00:44:06
>> very small.
00:44:07
>> Okay, but let's You know what? When
00:44:09
someone finds their balls,
00:44:10
>> I'll take it.
00:44:11
>> I'll take it. Let's give him a [ __ ]
00:44:13
>> one of those leftists that's like, "No,
00:44:15
you should never come in." I'm like,
00:44:16
"Come on in,
00:44:17
>> Cara. Send him a magnifying glass. the
00:44:19
balls will look bigger in the [ __ ]
00:44:21
scope. Okay, let's let's go here. Okay,
00:44:23
but but but but honestly, Vance does not
00:44:26
have the power and they will push back
00:44:29
on him and they will flex on him. Now,
00:44:31
the negative to Vance is he's tied to
00:44:34
some evildoer oligarchs. Okay? And the
00:44:37
negative to Vance is that they're going
00:44:38
to pump him with money and they're going
00:44:41
to get executive orders from this stuff.
00:44:43
See, the problem with this nation's tech
00:44:46
oligarchs, they don't give a [ __ ] They
00:44:48
only care about themselves and their
00:44:50
mission quest to make a trillion
00:44:52
dollars. If they were a smarter group of
00:44:54
people, they would think about what
00:44:56
Henry Ford once said, which is, "I'm
00:44:58
going to make stuff. My workers are
00:45:01
going to make stuff that they can
00:45:02
afford. I'm going to pay them enough
00:45:03
money so they can afford it. They're
00:45:05
going to have a single family house and
00:45:07
a good school system so they don't
00:45:10
attack me with tiki torches and
00:45:11
pitchforks in my Dearborn Michigan
00:45:14
mansion when I'm eating caviar and
00:45:15
carving my filet minan. being an
00:45:17
anti-semite, but go ahead.
00:45:19
>> Well, I'm not He was a bad guy, but he
00:45:22
understood social engineering.
00:45:24
>> I would agree with you. I think I was
00:45:27
What are you guys doing?
00:45:28
>> I literally was like, you know,
00:45:30
>> they're coming to get you if you don't
00:45:32
start acting more generous. Like I I
00:45:35
literally have had more arguments with
00:45:37
them about this. I'm like, you will. I
00:45:38
said, look at They don't read history.
00:45:40
Anthony doesn't. They don't read
00:45:41
history. It's really kind of fascinating
00:45:43
in a lot of ways. They think
00:45:44
self-absorption. They'll get in a a
00:45:47
rocket ship. Anyway, um we're going to
00:45:49
go on a quick break and we come back,
00:45:51
Tik Tok strikes a US deal. This is
00:45:53
really interesting.
00:45:56
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That's va.com/pivot.
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vanta.com/pivot.
00:46:41
Anthony, we're back with more news. Tik
00:46:43
Tok has dodged a potential ban and
00:46:44
sealed the deal to create new American
00:46:46
entity with investors like Oracle 15%
00:46:48
and Silverlake also 15% I believe in the
00:46:50
deal. Bite Dance keeps a small stake
00:46:52
around 20% but the algorithm will be
00:46:54
retrained on US data to address national
00:46:57
security concerns about Chinese control.
00:46:59
Oracle's sort of been doing this for a
00:47:01
while by the way. Um and by Oracle I
00:47:03
mean Larry Ellison. Uh President Trump
00:47:05
praised the deal and thanked China's
00:47:07
President Xi for proving it since he
00:47:08
hopes to be remembered by Tik Tok users
00:47:10
for making it happen. But the service is
00:47:13
enormously buggy in its first uh couple
00:47:16
days out with users reporting login
00:47:18
issues and feed disruptions. Other
00:47:19
people see a conspiracy theory in Larry
00:47:21
Ellison trying to shut down anti- uh ICE
00:47:24
stuff. Uh I I I am not of that camp. I
00:47:27
think it's just buggy and they're having
00:47:29
problems. I I I wouldn't put it past
00:47:31
them to do all manner of shitty things,
00:47:33
but in this case um I think it's just
00:47:36
this this shift over. um talk about this
00:47:39
because I there are also indications
00:47:41
that Tik Tok's user base is declining
00:47:43
and that it's uh its momentum is
00:47:45
declining. Um talk a little bit about
00:47:48
this because a lot of people are worried
00:47:49
about it becoming a propaganda tool. I
00:47:51
am less worried because I feel like it
00:47:53
has uh I know I'm going to get a call
00:47:55
from Zenya Muja in a second but I feel
00:47:57
like it has a MySpace vibe um to it. But
00:48:01
your thoughts it's big it's still
00:48:02
enormous but I don't I think it I think
00:48:04
Meta has the momentum with Instagram and
00:48:07
threads etc. Well, well, a couple
00:48:09
things. I mean, they they've neutered
00:48:12
Tik Tok, okay? So, it would be like
00:48:13
taking your dog to get spayed. You know,
00:48:15
the you know, the the verility of Tik
00:48:18
Tok is over.
00:48:19
>> Yeah.
00:48:20
>> Uh and so, you know, maybe it'll work.
00:48:23
Uh and maybe that's a good investment
00:48:24
for these people. I don't know. But
00:48:26
>> the discounts,
00:48:27
>> but here here's what I do know. I do
00:48:29
know when I was in the White House for
00:48:30
that very short period of time, the
00:48:32
intelligence stuff was Tik Tok was
00:48:35
weaponsgrade
00:48:36
intelligence gathering and it was
00:48:39
weaponsgrade crowd propaganda. Crowd
00:48:43
propaganda. 30% of the white males below
00:48:45
the age of 21, they don't think the moon
00:48:47
landing happened. You know, 15% of the
00:48:50
white males below 30 think Osama bin
00:48:52
Laden is a freedom warrior. uh all this
00:48:55
stuff being generated by the algorithm
00:48:57
on Tik Tok and all this stuff of
00:49:00
fermenting
00:49:02
conspiracy theories which cause people
00:49:04
to doubt and distrust their government
00:49:06
and cause them to doubt and distrust the
00:49:08
institutions of our democracy. All of
00:49:10
that worked to the point where the court
00:49:13
said shut it down. The Biden
00:49:14
administration said shut it down and it
00:49:16
was getting shut down. But uh some of
00:49:19
the owners of Tik Tok had a lot of
00:49:20
money. They gave the money to Donald
00:49:22
Trump and Trump defied the court orders,
00:49:25
okay? And he kept Tik Tok open. And so
00:49:28
we're sitting here now where I don't
00:49:31
think the secret sauce of Tik Tok,
00:49:35
despite what they're saying, is going to
00:49:37
get replicated. Okay? It's not going to
00:49:38
get transferred. Uh we do know in we do
00:49:41
know when the deal and I believe this is
00:49:43
the case because intelligence agencies
00:49:45
in this country still have teeth even
00:49:47
though Trump you know I guess is Uber
00:49:49
Alice but the intelligence agencies are
00:49:51
telling us that Bidance is walled off
00:49:55
from the information now they own 19.9%
00:49:58
of the company and they're not going to
00:49:59
get the information from the US anymore.
00:50:02
So they have other back doors by the
00:50:04
way. Chinese intelligence has other back
00:50:06
doors. So, I'm not worried about Chinese
00:50:07
intelligence gathering. Uh, but I think
00:50:10
this has been spayed uh to use a
00:50:14
veterinarian analogy. And I think these
00:50:17
guys are going to wake up 5 years from
00:50:19
now. It may not be 100% MySpace, but it
00:50:23
could be like a Yahoo that was like very
00:50:26
prominent in 1998, is still with us in
00:50:29
2026, but really isn't relevant to the
00:50:33
way it was once relevant. That's my
00:50:35
guess. has
00:50:36
>> that's my guess with Tik Tok.
00:50:38
>> Yeah, I would agree. I think the energy
00:50:40
is dragged out of it and and you know
00:50:42
it's still the question is what's
00:50:43
effective as these things and and as
00:50:45
much you know I have so much disdain for
00:50:47
Mark Zuckerberg although he has an
00:50:49
opportunity see I was thinking this he
00:50:52
remember when Gates everyone hated Gates
00:50:53
he was Darth Vader etc. Mark has an
00:50:56
opportunity to turn himself around.
00:50:58
That's my feeling with these products
00:51:00
that are quite good. Obviously, he had a
00:51:02
real a real [ __ ] up on on meta the
00:51:05
metaverse and spent a lot of money and
00:51:07
wasted. Here's one thing I love. This
00:51:09
guy spent $56 billion on a mistake. And
00:51:12
then all these tech people complain
00:51:14
about the government misusing funds.
00:51:15
They misuse funds all the time. It's
00:51:17
their own money, but that's fine. Um
00:51:19
it's actually it's shareholder money. Um
00:51:22
I I have a if he wanted to Zuckerberg to
00:51:26
me especially with Musk behaving like
00:51:28
you know a cartoon villain um has an
00:51:30
opportunity especially with these
00:51:32
products threads and Instagram etc to
00:51:36
really
00:51:38
dominate in a way that he already does.
00:51:40
But I don't know. I just I have this
00:51:42
notion that there's if he decided to to
00:51:45
stop being such a ridiculous figure uh
00:51:48
that he could certainly revive himself
00:51:51
and that's not an opening for him. But I
00:51:53
think the hiring of Dina Powell was
00:51:54
interesting. I thought, you know, a very
00:51:57
smooth operator. Uh as you know, it just
00:52:00
is an interesting time. But Tik Tok, I
00:52:02
think, really is, you're right, it's I
00:52:03
think it's it's not on the upswing,
00:52:05
that's for sure, when these guys are
00:52:06
buying it. Although, again, they got a
00:52:08
discount, so who cares? Well, you know,
00:52:09
I'll say I'll say something that people,
00:52:12
you know, it's a little contrarian, so
00:52:14
just hear me out for a second, okay? I
00:52:16
think that uh primmaaccia, you put Dana
00:52:18
White on the board because you think
00:52:19
he's a Trump guy and you're sending a
00:52:22
message to Trump that you're no longer
00:52:24
going to bash Trump. You put Dena on the
00:52:25
board, her husband's a senator from
00:52:27
Pennsylvania. Uh she was I mean, she was
00:52:29
on the board, but you put her in the in
00:52:31
the that presidency vice chairman
00:52:33
position. Uh sends a message to the
00:52:35
right. But I'm going to say something
00:52:38
about both those people.
00:52:40
>> I think they're less Trumpy than people
00:52:42
think.
00:52:44
>> Absolutely. Dana has already told
00:52:45
people, "I'm done with the politics.
00:52:47
I'll I'll do the UFC fight with Trump on
00:52:49
the 14th of June, but I'm done with the
00:52:51
politics." Dana is more of a
00:52:54
libertarian. Okay? And Dena, if you
00:52:58
really follow her life, she is a Trump
00:53:00
whisperer today, but she's really more
00:53:02
of a garden variety. and so was David,
00:53:04
by the way, a Republican.
00:53:06
>> So, you know, there could come a moment
00:53:08
here one, two, three years out where
00:53:11
Zuckerberg is influenced by these
00:53:13
people.
00:53:14
>> Okay? And you could be right. And so, so
00:53:17
I think the primmaaccia look is, oh,
00:53:19
he's putting Trump lackey in place to
00:53:22
calm down Trump.
00:53:22
>> I believe that. I agree with you.
00:53:24
>> But they're not Trump lackey if you
00:53:25
really know their personalities. And I
00:53:27
listen, I don't I don't know Dana. I I
00:53:29
have friends I've met Dana a few times,
00:53:30
but I I know Dana very very well. David
00:53:33
and I know each other very well. Dean
00:53:35
and I have worked together uh and you
00:53:38
know and she was polite enough to call
00:53:39
me and give me the heads up uh the
00:53:41
Sunday night before the job was
00:53:44
announced. You know, so she and she's a
00:53:45
special person. I like her and I think
00:53:47
that this could be a positive result.
00:53:49
>> Just interesting choices. I I was like
00:53:51
everyone's like Trump. I'm like that's
00:53:52
not what's happening here. It's it it
00:53:54
isn't. I mean, she just to be clear, uh,
00:53:57
Dena left the White House, uh, early in
00:53:59
the first term. Uh, and I think probably
00:54:01
Charlottesville and other issues were
00:54:03
impactful to her in lots of ways, but I
00:54:06
do think it's a much more complicated. I
00:54:08
thought it was an interesting and
00:54:10
probably the best move of Zuckerberg to
00:54:12
bring himself back into the light. I
00:54:14
guess he wasn't.
00:54:16
>> Listen, listen. David Solomon, Lloyd
00:54:18
Blankfine,
00:54:19
>> there's a reason why Dena was at the top
00:54:22
of the food chain in and around the
00:54:23
hoop. She's got good judgment. She's a
00:54:26
very smart person and she also has good
00:54:30
diplomacy skills. Okay. And so let's
00:54:32
let's see what happens. I I like her a
00:54:34
great deal and uh and I and I wish her
00:54:37
well at that new job.
00:54:38
>> But the Tik Tok thing gives to me Meta
00:54:41
the biggest opportunity here to to
00:54:44
return itself that although I
00:54:47
>> your podcast but can I ask you a
00:54:48
question?
00:54:49
>> Sure. Please. Do you mind if I ask you a
00:54:50
question because I want to talk about
00:54:52
this? The
00:54:52
>> the international version of Tik Tok in
00:54:56
my opinion
00:54:57
>> is now going to be way more robust than
00:55:00
the American algorithm.
00:55:02
>> Absolutely.
00:55:02
>> Okay. And so then the question is where
00:55:05
does the real innovation live? Does it
00:55:07
live outside of the United States
00:55:09
>> along with electric cars and everything
00:55:11
else? Right.
00:55:12
>> Where where does it live? Say it again.
00:55:14
>> Uh in China. along with electric cars,
00:55:16
along with all.
00:55:17
>> That's important for your viewers and
00:55:18
listeners to hear that message. You see,
00:55:20
because
00:55:21
>> for all of our bravado and all the
00:55:23
nonsense and jingoism, take a look at
00:55:26
the Chinese cars. Take a look at the
00:55:28
Chinese algorithm. Take a look at the
00:55:30
Chinese AI process that's in place. And
00:55:33
the thing that upsets me the most is
00:55:36
take a look at the 10, 15, 20, and 25
00:55:39
year plans that China has where the US
00:55:42
government has UGTS. Okay? And you know
00:55:45
what that means? Your your your viewers
00:55:47
can look it up what it means. We've got
00:55:49
UGTS because we are playing to the cable
00:55:52
news cycle as opposed to a 15, 20, or
00:55:55
30-year plan. But I just think it's very
00:55:58
important people to understand that
00:55:59
issue, the innovation
00:56:02
>> and the excitement.
00:56:03
>> You agree with me, right?
00:56:05
>> Yeah. I I I put more to the point. I
00:56:07
think that Trump has done more damage to
00:56:08
the technology industry. They've done it
00:56:10
to themselves. Let me just say by their
00:56:12
lack of interest in safety, but what's
00:56:14
coming for them? They were so scared of
00:56:16
Biden, who was toothless, as far as I
00:56:18
could tell.
00:56:19
>> Um said a lot of things, but and maybe
00:56:22
we'll, you know, pull back on crypto a
00:56:25
little bit. Um and that's over obviously
00:56:28
but writ large I think Trump is more
00:56:32
damaging to the tech industry and his
00:56:33
reputation than anything else and has
00:56:35
set them back and I think China has
00:56:37
moved into the breach and you know Mark
00:56:40
Zuckerber used to always talk about the
00:56:42
the the challenge from China and in
00:56:44
affiliating so tightly with Trump I
00:56:46
think it really ch it it creates a
00:56:49
backlash that's going to be sustained
00:56:51
especially not doing anything about teen
00:56:53
girls about kids around chat bots around
00:56:56
everything. I think they are, you know,
00:56:58
they're essentially putting themselves
00:57:00
as the bad guy, the baddies, and they
00:57:02
don't have to be like there there's an
00:57:04
opportunity for them to, you know, I
00:57:07
suppose Carnegie did that as evil as all
00:57:10
those people were. They, as you said,
00:57:12
they moved into a more
00:57:13
>> no police obliged. They realized that
00:57:15
they had to take care of people. But
00:57:17
>> Carol, let me just say this to you and
00:57:18
get you to react to it. If I'm a CEO and
00:57:21
I'm spending 0 to 15% of my time
00:57:24
thinking about how to handle Trump, 0 to
00:57:26
20% of my time
00:57:27
>> anytime. Yeah.
00:57:28
>> Isn't Isn't that less time of me
00:57:31
thinking about how to innovate and how
00:57:33
to create plans?
00:57:34
>> Do you see the drag on effect of Donald
00:57:36
Trump for all these companies?
00:57:38
>> Exactly. That's exactly except for the
00:57:39
sort of true believers who are just
00:57:41
terrible people. Right. When this
00:57:43
happens, our tech industry has been the
00:57:45
leader in terms of the stock market.
00:57:48
Where does this go? because the numbers
00:57:50
still stay. Even Tesla who's the who
00:57:52
with which sales numbers are falling off
00:57:54
a cliff and obviously that's a meme
00:57:56
stock. So there's nothing to be done
00:57:57
about that. But what happens with these
00:58:00
tech numbers um even as they grow
00:58:03
higher.
00:58:04
>> Well listen, you know the Fed is going
00:58:07
to drive this in my opinion. So if
00:58:10
you're if you're telling me and I know
00:58:12
Rick Reer a long time if he's going to
00:58:14
become the Fed chair and he's a dollar
00:58:18
realist. Okay, if you read any of his
00:58:19
work or look at any of his PowerPoint
00:58:21
presentations, but if he's going to cow
00:58:23
to Trump in order to get the job and
00:58:25
drop rates, stock market's going higher.
00:58:28
Uh the stock market is not going higher
00:58:30
priced than gold. Stock market is not
00:58:32
going higher priced than silver, but a
00:58:35
weakening US dollar stock market is
00:58:37
going higher. And so, so I'm I'm worried
00:58:40
about the market because of the
00:58:42
concentration. I'm worried about the
00:58:45
market because Mr. Buffett took $400
00:58:47
billion out of the market when he looks
00:58:49
at certain levels of, you know,
00:58:52
valuation metrics that he looks at. And
00:58:55
I'm worried about the market because
00:58:57
Trump singlehandedly
00:58:59
is taking the marginal dollar that used
00:59:03
to flow into America's safe and secure
00:59:05
markets and liquid markets where rule of
00:59:08
law was predictable and people now want
00:59:11
to punish America. You talk about a
00:59:14
boycott, an economic boycott. I'm
00:59:16
talking about a capital boycott. There
00:59:18
are people there are so you think the
00:59:19
sovereign wealth fund of Norway is like,
00:59:22
"Okay, let me put my incremental dollar
00:59:24
into America right now." I'm telling
00:59:26
you, they're not. They're like, "Hey,
00:59:28
hey, f you guys. We'll find other places
00:59:30
to go with the money." And uh and look
00:59:33
at the tourism numbers are down. Look at
00:59:34
the flights from Europe. Look at the
00:59:36
flights from Canada into Florida.
00:59:38
>> Tourism is a bigger industry than
00:59:40
manufacturing. Everybody, let's
00:59:42
>> Exactly. So, so, so to me, what I'm
00:59:45
worried about is the knock-on effects of
00:59:49
Donald Trump. Okay? I I think the tech
00:59:51
guys are going to be okay probably for
00:59:54
the next 12 months because of where
00:59:56
rates are going. Okay? Unless you're
00:59:58
telling me Rick Reer's getting the job
01:00:00
and he turns to you and says something
01:00:02
that a traditional Fed chairman would
01:00:04
say, which is, "Hey, I'm probably
01:00:05
raising rates 50 basis points." Wait,
01:00:07
what? Well, gold's at 5,000. Uh the
01:00:11
dollar is falling. The yen carry trade
01:00:13
is faka and I'm going to raise rates
01:00:17
here to put the thing back in equipoise.
01:00:19
Okay. See, so the market is not sensing
01:00:21
that. And and by the way, Bitcoin is not
01:00:24
doing well because it's not for the
01:00:27
market. It's not structural. If you told
01:00:29
me that this is a structural end to the
01:00:32
dollar, then Bitcoin would be
01:00:34
whackadoodlely rattling. What's
01:00:36
happening right now is it's a shortterm
01:00:38
crisis.
01:00:39
>> And so that's why people are piling into
01:00:41
gold and silver. Bitcoin is the next
01:00:44
step. That's when people say, "Okay,
01:00:46
full-on currency disbasement. The the
01:00:48
dollar is now the Zimbabwe dollar. We
01:00:50
got to get the hell out of the dollar."
01:00:52
>> I have one of those.
01:00:53
>> Yeah. I got Hey, look, I'm a Hey, Kevin,
01:00:55
you better be nice to me. I am a
01:00:56
billionaire in Zimbabwe. But my my my
01:00:58
point is the money is there to drive the
01:01:01
market higher for the tech people.
01:01:03
>> Yeah. If they behave anyway. All right,
01:01:05
Anthony, one more quick break. We'll be
01:01:08
back for wins and fails. Okay. Uh
01:01:10
Anthony, let's hear some wins and fails.
01:01:12
You go first.
01:01:14
>> Okay. So, you're not gonna like this
01:01:16
one, but uh but the win of the week
01:01:20
>> is actually Elon Musk. And I'm going to
01:01:22
tell you why. He shows up with a
01:01:24
haircut.
01:01:25
>> He looks like he lost a little bit of
01:01:26
weight. They give him 31 minutes of air
01:01:29
time at the World Economic Forum, a
01:01:31
place that he disdained and criticized
01:01:33
woefully for a decade. His buddy Larry
01:01:36
Frink, who's now the interim chairman,
01:01:38
brings him on stage.
01:01:40
>> And he was articulate and he explained
01:01:42
the vision for these data centers up in
01:01:44
space. And he was the normal Elon and he
01:01:48
was the aspirational Elon. And you could
01:01:51
like him or dislike him, but that's the
01:01:53
win for the week.
01:01:55
>> All right. The only thing I'm saying is
01:01:56
a lot of his predictions he makes them
01:01:58
up. You know that like you could track
01:02:00
them at this point. He said it so much.
01:02:01
I'm going to have robots in your house
01:02:03
in a year and then 10 years goes.
01:02:06
>> I understand that. But but I'm talking
01:02:07
about imagery and you know the world is
01:02:09
about imagery. I think he won. Do you
01:02:11
want the loss or you want to go for the
01:02:12
win?
01:02:12
>> All right. Go ahead. I'll give it to
01:02:14
you. I'll give it to you.
01:02:15
>> All right. All right.
01:02:15
>> I heard his robots are cool.
01:02:17
>> The loss.
01:02:18
>> The loss. The loss is actually Donald
01:02:21
Trump. No. Neil Neil Neil Neil Ferguson
01:02:24
said that he won Davos. Uh and he
01:02:27
explained this MAGA-esque way that he
01:02:29
won Davos, but he actually lost Davos.
01:02:32
Carney Carney won Davos. He would have
01:02:34
been number two on the win category for
01:02:36
me. Although Carney has a going to have
01:02:38
a harder time because of where he sits
01:02:40
north of the American border. But but
01:02:42
but but Donald Trump lost this week. He
01:02:45
lost because he looked like an imbecile
01:02:47
on Greenland. He lost because the
01:02:50
marginal dollar is now moving away from
01:02:52
the United States because of his
01:02:53
imbecility and the situation in ICE uh
01:02:57
the situation the tragedy in Minnesota.
01:03:00
Trump has lost that too because he's
01:03:02
smart enough to know that the public
01:03:05
opinion he's -17
01:03:08
on ICE and immigration in the United
01:03:10
States and he's got a 36% approval
01:03:13
rating but when people ask their friends
01:03:17
about Trump they don't like what's
01:03:19
happening to their neighbors and so
01:03:21
Trump is losing right now uh and we're
01:03:23
not even addressing his health issues.
01:03:25
So that's the win and that's the loss.
01:03:28
Despite the appearance that Trump quote
01:03:30
unquote won and all the MAGA people like
01:03:33
Buttlick would say that he won, he did
01:03:35
not win. He lost.
01:03:39
>> We call him Nutlick, too. I cannot
01:03:41
believe it's the same person that I was
01:03:44
talking to at Davos 10 years ago.
01:03:46
>> Kevin Hassid is the one that all the
01:03:48
economists called me about saying, "What
01:03:49
in the world happened? Did he get a
01:03:50
brain implant or something?"
01:03:52
>> Yeah, Kevin I feel more sorry for. But I
01:03:54
mean, Howard knows better, you know.
01:03:57
>> Yeah. Well, who knows? He's so thirsty.
01:03:59
It's kind of depressing to watch.
01:04:01
>> Um Howard, no matter what you do, as
01:04:03
they say from uh
01:04:05
>> Dude, you lost Carmine. No matter what
01:04:07
you're going to do, you're going to die.
01:04:09
>> And you're never coming back from this,
01:04:11
by the way. You're never coming back
01:04:12
from this.
01:04:13
>> You're never coming back. My fail. I'm
01:04:15
going to do the other side of the Elon
01:04:16
thing. The EU regulators are
01:04:17
investigating X over sexualized AI
01:04:19
images. Any reporter who does not ask
01:04:22
him about this in every interview is not
01:04:24
doing their jobs. What is happening on X
01:04:26
is repulsive. I have four children. You
01:04:29
have children. You have many children.
01:04:30
>> Five of them. Yep.
01:04:31
>> Five of them. Uh what is the fact that
01:04:33
he has not gotten a hold of this on the
01:04:35
on this one issue? I will continue to
01:04:37
pound um these I hope he gets
01:04:40
investigated everywhere over these
01:04:42
sexualized AI images uh because they
01:04:44
have to stop. they have to stop whether
01:04:46
they're non-consensual uh AI images of
01:04:50
women, especially a child pornography is
01:04:52
what it is. To be known as a child
01:04:54
pornographer is not the image you want.
01:04:57
That's what I would say. So, and I I'm
01:04:59
going to take the other side on that. I
01:05:00
think it's very people are sick of this
01:05:02
[ __ ] of of this and it's enough. It's
01:05:04
enough with them running rough shot over
01:05:07
us. They're not going to sexualize our
01:05:08
children. Um and I'm not a QAnon person.
01:05:10
It's just it's so dangerous to do this.
01:05:13
Um, my win you're also not gonna like
01:05:16
but I I'm gonna do it. Zoran Mandani
01:05:19
telling New Yorkers to stay home and
01:05:21
read Heated Rivalry during a snowstorm I
01:05:23
thought was very funny and actually did
01:05:25
a good job on his first snowstorm. He
01:05:27
did Anthony, you'll have to say he's
01:05:29
doing he's focusing in on New Yorkers
01:05:30
tonight.
01:05:31
>> Let me let me tell you. So I I I am a
01:05:33
New Yorker. I am not moving to Florida.
01:05:36
I've got my home here in New York. I've
01:05:38
been a New Yorker for 62 years.
01:05:40
>> I want him to do well. Okay. Honestly,
01:05:43
if he does well, it's better for the
01:05:45
rest of us.
01:05:46
>> I agree. I think he handled the
01:05:47
snowstorm beautifully. He put out great
01:05:49
information. He did his He knows what
01:05:51
his job is right now, which is making
01:05:52
New Yorkers have a all New Yorkers have
01:05:55
a better life. I think that's a really
01:05:56
>> And if he does that, he'll win real
01:05:58
election and God bless him. I I I
01:06:00
>> I just want the city to be safe, you
01:06:03
know, for all the obvious reasons.
01:06:05
>> Yeah. I I I love New York City. Anyway,
01:06:08
um I'm questioning. Do you have you have
01:06:09
you watched Eater Ronald Rey Anthony?
01:06:11
>> I haven't. No. Is that something I need
01:06:13
to do?
01:06:14
>> You need to do it.
01:06:14
>> Yeah, I've been watching.
01:06:15
>> Maybe vaguely uncomfortable for you, but
01:06:17
I think you'll like it.
01:06:18
>> No. Why would it be? What do you think?
01:06:19
I'm homophobic. It was about
01:06:20
>> No, I don't. But there's a lot of sex
01:06:22
happening.
01:06:23
>> I don't Baby, I want everybody to be
01:06:26
happy. Okay.
01:06:27
>> All right. You should watch Eat Arrival
01:06:28
and we'll have a discussion about it.
01:06:29
You are a pleasure to talk to. I always
01:06:31
>> I can't be quiet at this point in my
01:06:33
life. It's like my kids say, "Dad, you
01:06:34
got to you got to speak up because
01:06:37
>> speak up. You gota you got to help
01:06:38
people speak up. I think what I love
01:06:40
about you and Scott is you're helping
01:06:43
people speak up. You're providing Yes.
01:06:45
>> a little bit of a ceiling for people to
01:06:47
come in under.
01:06:48
>> God bless you for that.
01:06:49
>> Absolutely. And God bless the people of
01:06:51
Minnesota who are doing that. I'm just
01:06:53
They're not organized protesters.
01:06:54
They're not being paid for by George
01:06:56
Soros. These are people who are seeing
01:06:57
what's happening in their community and
01:06:59
they don't they won't
01:07:00
>> Trump would not be responding the way he
01:07:02
responded this morning if that were the
01:07:03
case. Gre trust me. He would have gone
01:07:05
crazy with evidence related to that.
01:07:08
He's looking at the situation saying,
01:07:09
"I'm losing here. I got to pull this
01:07:11
back."
01:07:12
>> What a decent group of people and
01:07:13
helping their helping their fellow
01:07:15
citizens and Minnesota.
01:07:17
>> He's actually breathed life into Tim
01:07:19
Walls again. I have to tell you, it's
01:07:21
incredible, which is, you know, we'll
01:07:24
see.
01:07:24
>> That's one way to look at it.
01:07:25
>> Yeah. Well, it's well, actually, he's
01:07:27
handled himself well. And just so you
01:07:28
know, I I urge everyone to listen to my
01:07:30
Jacob Fry interview. Very interesting
01:07:32
interview. Unfortunately, he did predict
01:07:34
exactly what was going to happen and
01:07:36
let's hope it doesn't happen again. And
01:07:38
my heart goes out to the family of Alex
01:07:40
Prey and also the family of Renee Good
01:07:42
and all the families who are are subject
01:07:44
to brutality uh in this manner. It's
01:07:47
>> you can't have your government killing
01:07:49
its own citizens. That is correct. Not
01:07:52
form some level of coordinated
01:07:54
resistance to that.
01:07:55
>> Yep. Absolutely. Anyway, we want to hear
01:07:57
from you. Send us your questions about
01:07:58
business tech or whatever's on your
01:08:00
mind. and go to nymag.com/pivot
01:08:02
to submit a question for the show or
01:08:03
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01:08:06
subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll
01:08:08
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01:08:12
Thanks for listening to Pivot from New
01:08:14
York Magazine and Vox Media. You can
01:08:16
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01:08:19
We'll be back later this week for
01:08:21
another breakdown of all things tech and
01:08:24
business. Thank you, Anthony.
01:08:26
>> Thanks, Cara.