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I think this is one piece of the chessboard to what is a civil war. I
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think this is another step to America breaking up. That's the plot of Hunger Games, just so you know.
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser and I'm Scott
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Galloway. Scott, we've got a lot to get to today, including the Trump Elon breakup getting uglier. Uh, plus another
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breakup making headlines. Warner Brothers Discovery is splitting up just like we said. Um, but let's get to the
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first thing because what's what's happening? Uh, there's lots of interesting I want to talk about your boxing match and etc., etc., but first,
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uh, let's talk about what's happening on the ground in California. Governor, uh, Gavin Newsome says California will sue the Trump administration challenging the
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president's recent order to federalize National Guard forces amid protests in Los Angeles over immigration raids.
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Newsome already asked the White House to rescend its deployment of 2,000 National Guard troops to LA, accusing Trump of
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manufacturing chaos and violence. Trump made the order over the weekend invoking a rally used federal law. Uh, Defense
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Secretary Pete Heg says created more of a problem. He also got in the mix by suggesting active duty Marines could be
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sent in. Newsome called these comments deranged behavior. I think it's a [ __ ] show that Trump is creating on purpose
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as many people do. Um, and that he's creating tension in order to pick a fight. Essentially, this is what he's
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trying to do so they can uh and creating immigration actions that are things that
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would cause a vote, would cause people to protest and then trying to egg them on into worse activities. So, let's talk
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a little bit more about that. I've called um this complete overreach by a desperate despot. Uh, your thoughts?
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Well, I've been called hysterical for uh you know a while now
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comparing or drawing similarities between America right now and 30s Germany. And you don't have to be Hitler
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to borrow methods and worst practices from his playbook. And that is when
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tanks roll through cities, it doesn't feel like strength. It feels like a funeral for civil
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society. Germany is in Germany in the 30s didn't collapse overnight. It slid into tyranny by normalizing soldiers
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where citizens used to stand. You know, early Nazi propaganda decided and we're
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doing the same thing. We have real problems overseas. You know, there are still Russian, you know, Russia is still
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invading Europe. China, there's real significant issues around China, Pakistan, and India. Could could
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eventually digress to a a nuclear conflict. Iran is trying to spin up
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reactors. But if you look at and again I think I just this has so many echoes of
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30s Germany early Nazi propaganda emphasized that Germany's problems were due to internal saboturs, communists,
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Jews, immigrants and that today if you look at this rhetoric they're blaming immigrants, academics, protesters,
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journalists. It it mirrors kind of the same playbook here. And when you have a
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government who turns its military force inward against journalists, migrants or citizens who believe and exercising the
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right to protest in a civil, peaceful manner in justice, you're not defending democracy. You're rehearsing for
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something much darker. So it's it's not the protests themselves. It's not what's
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going This is another step towards normalizing uh an attempt to rebrand
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um militarization as patriotism. And Right. Right. So, do you think it's working? His just for people to know,
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historian Ruth Bengette wrote on threads, fascists want to provoke violence so they can justify crackdowns
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and get some good footage, distort the state uh propaganda outlets for for state propaganda outlets like Fox News,
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etc. Um and and and the media is illprepared to push back in in saying
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this is what it is, but it's obviously you bring troops in and you create all kinds of, you know, people there's
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rubberneckers that people that show up. You know, if you recall what happened around the church near the White House when people were protesting, Trump
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created chaos in order to say it was chaotic, which is some which is sort of
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like fascism 101 essentially. Um when you how do you assess how California is
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dealing with this? Obviously Gavin Newsome has suddenly found his backbone and uh has pushing back. He said come on
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and arrest me because they were making threats to arrest Tom Hman who is literally it looks like the drunkle is
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running the show over there. Um but uh but he he said arrest me then or or or
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but but stand down. This obviously has to go to the Supreme Court um in some
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fashion, which is problematic in and of itself. But when when the when the when the state governors are asking them not
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to do this and have it under control or say they have it under control, how do you how do you assess what's going on
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with the Cal California itself? I actually think this is I think this
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Governor Nuomo comes out of this a winner most likely because I think what it's doing is it's sort of setting up
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the next presidential election between Trump's appointing JD Vance and Governor
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Nuomo. And I think so far Governor Nuomo has tried to stay forceful yet dignified. But I thought he was smart to say, you know, he's he's not trying to
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whip people into a frenzy or he's trying to dial it down and he's basically taking on Tom Holman and saying, "Arest
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me." I think he's handling this he's handling this quite well. So I don't, you know,
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it's it feels like literally Cara the way analogy I would use, I was trying to think of analogy. It feels like you're trying to fix a smoke alarm with a
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flamethrower and they're just looking for a reason. They're trying to provoke someone into shooting someone in uniform
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such that they can have an overreaction. And I in 1992 I came home from graduate
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school and I found armed uh National Guard on my corner. I lived in this very
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peaceful neighborhood in Westwood and on the corners there were two what looked like boys high school boys in fatigues
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with you know M15s or assault rifles and that that doesn't feel like safety it
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feels like a breakdown in society it makes you lose faith in your government and it forces you to choose a side and
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it's just very it's just very strange and then just more broadly when I think about the role that the presidents or
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past presidents have played And when I think about the role of someone who's powerful and really well
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respected, the most the biggest compliment you can ever receive is someone who asks you to play peacemaker
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and to deescalate a situation, right? That's when you know you've made it in business is when people, you know, I'm
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patting myself on the back, but a lot of times I serve as a buff a buffer or someone to mediate disputes between a
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board and its CEO. And I'm really I'm really that feels really good. That makes me feel important and it makes me
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feel like I finally have some business maturity. When typically the president of the United States is deployed all
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over the world to help bring waring parties back from the brink of war and
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to settle things and deescalate. And so when you have a president who appears to be just manufacturing and escalating
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what could ultimately be I mean I'm I want to be clear I'm a bit of a catastrophist here. I think this is one
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piece of the chessboard to what is a civil war. And that is when you have a a
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government cosplaying authoritarianism that seems to have missed the last or the first half of the last century and
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what happened in in um in Europe. I mean this is how this is how it ends. I don't
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think America ends with a bang. I think it ends with a a thump and some I imagine the next a next move. All right.
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Newsome says, "We're sick of sending $80 billion to the federal government that you can deploy to red states that then
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you use to demonize us. So we're not paying our federal taxes." And then or Texas say Governor Nuomo is elected
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president. Texas says we're not certifying the election. We don't we don't honor your federal elections. And
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then before you have know it, California becomes a tech economy doing trade with Asia. Texas and the South become an oil
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and gas economy. The East Coast becomes a services financial services economy
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doing business with Europe. The Midwest a manufacturing economy with strong relationships with Canada. They maybe
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develop their own currencies. Governor Nuome tried to weaponize volunteers to
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create his own army. This is what they did in the Weimar government. And before you know it, we're like the European
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Union but a disunion of states. So I think this is another step of breaking
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up. Just so you know. I'm sorry. That's the plot of Hunger Games, but go ahead.
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I literally didn't I didn't I was like, "Huh? Wait a minute. Who's Jennifer Lawrence?" That's me. It's funny. I
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don't I I never saw the full series of Hunger Games. Um Yeah. Yeah. That's the book. Although I'm a big Donald
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Southerntherland fan. I'm not a huge Jennifer Lawrence fan. But anyways, that's the that's they break into
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districts. That's the that's the story of Hungary. Well, they break into districts and then the districts try then the center tries to hold them and
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it's it's a version of it. My point is people think that the end of America would be some huge civil war. I think it
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could happen much more quietly than that. And that is this is what's being set up. There's going to be a number of
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states, I believe, who are going to economically sequester andor refuse to honor the next
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results of the presidential election. I think that is what is being set up here. I have a different thought. Yep. I think
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all these people are going to jail eventually. When you say all these people, who's the people that are creating this this this fake war, the
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fake war people, you know, wag the dog, they're wag they're trying to wag the dog. Tom Holman and Homeman, I think
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they're going to be under investigation the rest of their lives, but he'll get he'll get a full pardon from the I'm not saying I disagree with you, but let's
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play this out. The all these people will get full pardons at the end of the uh Trump tenure, but you think that that
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that could be pierced? I think it can be pierced. I think there would be a tr I think that the further they go the the
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issue is they're so incompetent. They're so like obviously incompetent in in a lot of ways. You don't have to be
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competent by the way to create chaos and create destruction. Um they're quite good at that too. Uh but someone like
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Christine Gnome, Tom Hman, uh you know, Marco Rubio's been dragged into here and has ruined his his reputation forever, I
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suspect. I think they're all in a world of trouble the minute Donald Trump is out of the picture. Um, and that you
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can't people people I don't think citizens put up with this. I don't I don't I absolutely do not. I think I'm
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seeing more people getting more activated in good ways than ever before. And so, you know, it it doesn't take
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much to crack down on people, but this is a big country and it's very hard to control. Um, and the more they try to
00:11:00
control, the more they try to do um this kind of nonsense, the more people see through it. Absolutely. Oddly enough, a
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lot of my relatives who are Trump people are like, "This is [ __ ] up." And it's not the leftists they're saying are
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[ __ ] up, which is usually their way to go. Um, it's more he's crazy. This is nuts. This is ridiculous. You know, uh,
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so we'll see. We'll see if other people buy into this, but I do think he exhausts his base and regular people
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begin to take back control of this. Um, you know, it's just, uh, he can try. He
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can try. That's what he's doing. He's trying desperate. He's a desperate. That's why I called him the the complete overreach of a desperate desperate.
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Every move he's making lately to me is both despotic, incompetent, and also um
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insecure in a lot of ways. But we'll see. But what you just outlined is
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is my vision of how you would restore and heal America. That you'd have moral clarity and have the effectively like a
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Nornberg trial where you said, "Okay, you knew this was a lie. You purposely tried to create violence and mayhem.
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purposely tried to overrun our elections. You purposely committed fraud. You purposely leveraged our
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international sway to enrich your children. I love the idea of a stream of perpox and moral clarity around this
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stuff. That America's laws have a long memory. I love that. That's a fantasy of mine. I dream of that at night. My fear,
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Cara, is that there's actually a lot of people who like what's going on right now. I I would push back. Hitler was real
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popular until he wasn't. Wasn't he real popular? Oh, he was popular up until the end. Cara, that's right. That's correct.
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And he still is in a lot of ways, oddly enough. Um, but I think a lot of He never tried. He he killed himself
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because the Red Army was circling. Of course. But my my Look, I'm a long view
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person. I think there's going to be a lot of damage in the interim. I think your scenario is perfectly uh possible.
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Absolutely. No question. Um but in my scenario, every single person who's
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behaved like Trump ends up ends up badly. I would say badly. Um whether
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it's Mousolini, uh Saddam Hussein, um Gaddafi, uh the Chowescus, it just
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always ends with the same story, which is uh you know the people around these all these people were executed or or
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killed themselves. Well, I know that's what I mean. I think our country is slightly different. And I think we allow like we let Nixon go off to, you know,
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we tend to be more forgiving in that regard. But it's the same version. It's a metaphorical version of that. Um, and
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I we'll see. I think he's Look, he's an old man, so we'll see how long he lasts,
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right? Um, but uh but the and this is just as you say, biology is uh is
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undefeated. Um I mean, all all joking aside, he did the same trip Biden did
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the other day if you saw it. the same exact trip that Biden did on the stairs
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going on the stairs. So, I was just like, well, you people but to your point hold on because he's he's what hold on
00:13:58
to Trump because he's all you got to these people. That's my feeling. So, but but to your point I like to move to what
00:14:05
Democrats should be doing. I don't understand why a Democrat hasn't forcefully We're
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so we're so obsessed with grabbing social virtue and taking the higher road. Mhm. I don't understand why a
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Democrat hasn't announced her president and said, "And on the order, I'm passing
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a constit I'm getting congressional approval to arrest people who have engaged in fraud, to arrest people who
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have engaged in trading off our country's um geopolitical power for personal
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enrichment. Uh, I'm arresting people who have fmented violence while using the military while knowing that these these
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actions were unamerican, unconstitutional, and not needed. And here is the exact legislation I'm going
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to propose that will pierce any pardon. Why has no one stood up and
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said, "Hi, I'm a Democrat and I have actual [ __ ] testicles." What would they be saying? This would be the mother
00:15:04
of all. Lock her up. Can you imagine what they would be threatening? What's really interesting is is that Kla Harris
00:15:12
warned about troops in the streets. So did Hillary Clinton clearly everything Hillary Clinton warned about. He did.
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Exactly. So I'm going to listen to the women in this case. She also Kla Harris talked about this. You can make fun of
00:15:23
her all you want, but she she had this one cold of what he was his his movement. And she's not she's not the
00:15:28
only one who said he would do this. Um but she was the probably the most outspoken. There was a great story in
00:15:35
the Atlantic uh this week by a friend of mine, Mark Lubich, about Obama's sort of chill pill kind of attitude. I do not
00:15:42
know where this man is. Like, I'm sorry. There is not a strong Democrat yet who has emergent. It could be someone who
00:15:49
announces for president. You're right. That's a great way to do it. But the only person with the gravitas, and
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people are like, why doesn't George Bush Jr. do it? He doesn't have the same gravitas that President Obama has. stand
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up and not just when he feels like it, not just when he wants to make some announcement and then he goes off and
00:16:08
plays basketball with celebrities that which is what he's been doing honestly, but someone like that they're very I was
00:16:14
trying to think who who could do this and create a nationwide problem for Trump and it is
00:16:21
only Obama. It is only Obama. I think it could be a new voice. The problem is I I I agree with you. I'd love to see Obama
00:16:28
do it, but the office of president there is a generally accepted principle that
00:16:33
former presidents do not get involved in politics and come out swinging. Not this guy. No, I this guy doesn't deserve
00:16:40
that. I get it. I I understand it and I'm not saying I don't disagree with it. That the better opportunity is for
00:16:46
someone to emerge with a new vision for America who's a Democrat and just comes right out and says, "I think there are
00:16:52
crimes that have been committed here. I'm not going to threaten my political opponents with incarceration, but I am
00:16:58
going to uphold the Constitution. And my belief is that there have been several criminal acts committed here, and I'm
00:17:05
going to hold this and I'm going to and and by the way, if some Democrats have
00:17:10
continued to engage in insider trading, I'm going to hold them accountable. I mean somebody needs to stand up and say
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I am running to defend the constitution and on day one I am going to demonstrate and put on full display what the
00:17:24
constitution actually if we don't restore incentives if we don't restore incentives to the downside as well as
00:17:30
the upside then it's kind of game over and no one's running on it no one stood up and said I'm ready this is what I'm
00:17:38
going to do I'm not sure who has you can't name I can't name I think it's someone TBD I think it's probably a Democratic governor who we don't even
00:17:44
know yet because at this time well we know who they are. Well, yeah, but we didn't Okay, they weren't household
00:17:50
names. We Clinton and Obama were not Nobody knew who they were in this part of the election cycle. This is a huge widespace and opportunity for a
00:17:57
Democrat. Uh I don't think it can be I see I see that. I think right now Barack Obama's got to stand the [ __ ] up and
00:18:03
stop stop playing basketball and hang out. I'd like to see it, but I don't see going to celebrity things. Stop. He did
00:18:09
the whole stop. He did the whole if this were me, can you imagine if I did that? But I think quite frankly, he has such a
00:18:15
nice life and he's so focused on maintaining his brand equity. I don't think he wants to take the risk. I I agree with you. I think he should. I
00:18:22
don't think he will. Oh, I don't think he will because I think he he he I think he's the only one who could and he
00:18:27
should do it and it's his duty as an American. What about What about What about Bill Clinton? If you if you're
00:18:32
gonna pull people, I think I think a lot of the exes have a lot of baggage compared to President Obama. I think a
00:18:38
lot of them do. I I think Bill Clinton for I know it sounds dumb, but he's older and his voice is bad. There's only
00:18:43
one who's looking good and in fighting shape is President Obama. George Bush does not have the same I mean all of
00:18:50
them together. Great, but President Obama is the one that needs to stand up. And I got so like I I pushed that
00:18:57
article and they were like, "What about George Bush? What why should he come out? Why should he come out uh against
00:19:03
this?" I'm like, "Cuz cuz they've ruined his legacy." because they've like because it's the right thing to do and
00:19:09
he's the only one honestly I can't think of anyone else in public in there's a huge wide space for uh someone who wants
00:19:16
to be I mean I've I've and you received these calls too I've received calls from six people who are excited to come on
00:19:21
the pot which is their way of saying I'm running for president and what I say to their PR people is like well tell them
00:19:27
to tell him to start actually running for [ __ ] president then and come up
00:19:33
with actual sober plans and talk about bold solutions, attach real money and numbers to it, talk about what we
00:19:39
actually need to do. And also, I mean, they were saying he was President Trump
00:19:45
and it was effective. I'm not being indignant. It was effective. He was saying chanting lock her up around
00:19:52
Hillary Clinton's emails. And we as Democrats are like, "No, we've got to
00:19:57
take the high road." Well, that's what I'm saying. Stop standing on ceremony. I mean, I don't know. I think Obama, get
00:20:02
off your tail. You're the only one right now. I think it should be I think it should be a stepstone to this person being elected. Uh so I think he's the
00:20:10
only one. I think it's a big opportunity for somebody. We'll see. Um okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come
00:20:16
back, how Trump is threatening Elon even though Elon has acquiesed, it looks like. Scott, we're back with the latest
00:20:22
fallout from the Elon Trump breakup. Trump says his relationship with Elon Musk is over and threatening serious
00:20:27
consequences if Elon funds Democratic candidates. Trump is he's not Trump is pushing everyone around. Trump has been
00:20:34
busy talking to reporters and working the phones over the last few days, calling Elon disrespectful, a big-time drug addict. He's also selling that new
00:20:41
Tesla. Apparently, there's been talk about a possible truth. Of course, political reported there was a call with
00:20:46
representatives for both men on Friday. I think that was just David Saxs calling Donald Trump up. Elon, for his part, has
00:20:51
deleted several of his tweets from last week, including the one tying Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. And on Sunday, he appeared to be kissing the ring,
00:20:58
retweeting posts from Trump and JD Dance about the LA protests. I was I've been I've been actually unfortunately going
00:21:04
on Twitter and watching what he's up to and he seems to be first he was focused a lot on on SpaceX and things like that
00:21:11
and now he's um he's he's sort of retweeting a lot of support for Donald
00:21:16
Trump again. So I think he's probably trying to get in there. He doesn't want to uh he realizes he's in a in a
00:21:22
deleveraged position and he's decided not to go rogue. People have actually calmed him down. I I don't I don't think
00:21:29
it's going to last for him. Um, but a lot of people are trying to get Elon to back off and acquies. So, and I think
00:21:37
largely a lot of it is because his businesses will be at risk. Uh, Tesla's got recovered a bit at the end of the
00:21:42
week, although the company is still facing some pain if Trump spending bill passes. Uh, in terms of SpaceX, Elon
00:21:48
appears to have changed his mind on decommissioning the Dragon spacecraft. That was so ridiculous. But NASA and the Pentagon officials are urging SpaceX
00:21:55
competitors to quickly develop rockets and spacecraft, according to the Washington Post. And um and we're just
00:22:01
learning now that some Trump officials had some concerns about the Starlink getting installed at the White House earlier this year, which we brought up
00:22:06
many times. A lot of Tesla's getting downgraded all over the place. Um uh and
00:22:12
obviously people in MAGA world have to choose sides though. New polling by
00:22:17
Yuggov suggests that Republicans are not conflicted with their loyalties. to ask how what what who they would choose
00:22:24
between Trump and Musk. Seven in 10 Republicans said Trump although three that's interesting same thing with JD
00:22:30
Vance who was pushed forward by who got his job through Elon Musk and Peter Teal essentially. He's always going to be
00:22:36
loyal to the president. He hopes Elon eventually comes back in the fold. Uh David Saxs of course because the he's
00:22:41
anxious to has been privately encouraging Musk to call the president try to mend the relationship. Now Steve
00:22:47
Bannon on the other hand is making trouble. He's urged Trump to deport Elon and seize control of SpaceX. Bannon also
00:22:54
provided details with Elon's Oval Office fight with Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant to the Washington Post,
00:22:59
revealing how the fight got physical. Apparently, there was a ramming. He Elon rammed his shoulder into Bessant's rib
00:23:05
cage like a rugby player and Besson hit him back. Um, Musk has called him a liar. And we haven't heard anything from
00:23:11
Steven Miller's wife, Katie, who recently left Doge on the White House. Oh, she's here under the desk. Oh,
00:23:16
that's wrong. Oh, that's wrong. though Elon had to rebuke his chat box uh his chatbot Grock after it falsely claimed
00:23:23
that a tweet where Elon bragged about taking Katie Miller from her husband was real. Um Grock believes it was and Elon
00:23:30
said it wasn't. Um uh as I said Elon called a ban a liar. Um so what do you
00:23:36
think? What do how do you look at this? What do I think? I think if this were any gayer, it'd be a Bravo reality show
00:23:42
sponsored by Grinder. I just I mean for God can you imagine two bigger [ __ ]
00:23:48
than this? I mean it's just like God if I had two 12y olds behaving this
00:23:57
way. Let me get this and I just love how okay Trump or Mus thinks he's
00:24:03
illuminating to the world that Trump was guilty of a sex crime on an island and
00:24:09
then Trump threatening to deport him. No, not Trump. Bannon. Bannon suggested it. Oh, is that I thought Trump said he
00:24:15
would he had it had come to his attention that he was he was here illegally or again this is all just such
00:24:22
a such a distraction. And to be clear, Trump Musk has no problem with the bill.
00:24:28
He knew what was in the bill. He he was he's part of the architecture here. He's part of this notion that it's exploding
00:24:34
the deficit borrows bothers him as he tries to cut 40 or 50% of the IRS. Mhm.
00:24:40
This is what happened or my read. He wanted to get involved in China relations. He wanted
00:24:46
He wanted He wanted to be co-president. Yeah. No, he wanted to be an unelected president. And Trump said no. Scott Bent
00:24:53
said, "I'm not letting you pick these people." They got into a fight. He got punched in the face, it looks like, and
00:25:01
now he's decided that all of a sudden he doesn't like the the tax bill. and and
00:25:07
Trump is hitting back. The problem is it's a huge distraction from from more
00:25:12
important issues here. Musk has more to lose because the
00:25:18
government could he Trump is not above absolutely weaponizing the government and threatening specific punishment for
00:25:26
his companies, whether it's tariffs, taxes, uh rescending EV taxes, canceling
00:25:32
all contracts with SpaceX. But we've said it was dangerous investigating,
00:25:37
bringing back the SEC, bringing back he could do all manner of things. Or what he's done to other citizens, he's been
00:25:44
sending other citizens to concentration camps. And people get triggered when I say the word. The definition of a
00:25:49
concentration camp is a a a an incarceration facility that is purposely
00:25:56
put outside of your own country such that the people you send there are no longer protected by the laws in in norms
00:26:05
of their home country. So these are concentration camps. They fit the definition. Are they are they
00:26:10
exterminating people there? No. Not that we know of. But these fit the definition of concentration camps. And if he can
00:26:16
send if he can send people that it ends up have not committed a crime, right?
00:26:21
Why could he theoretically not send you, me or Elon Musk? And that's the problem
00:26:27
with all of this is that we have decided a pillar of our justice system is we heir on the side. We have made a
00:26:33
decision to give people really wonderful rights. We have aired on the side of
00:26:39
occasionally someone who deserves to go to jail doesn't rather than accidentally
00:26:44
lock up a gay hairdresser who's done nothing wrong in a hellscape in El Salvador. We've decided to heir the
00:26:51
other way and this guy has decided to go the other way and air on the side of
00:26:57
people who are innocents. Anyways, my point is he can I you know must to his
00:27:03
credit I mean you know Honeybadger don't care. he's under the impression I'm more powerful. And to his credit, he's true.
00:27:12
He's right. He did get, you know, you could make a very solid argument that he in fact did get Trump elected. Uh so,
00:27:19
but again, I worry I worry it's not it's again a distraction from what I think is the bigger issue here, which is the grab
00:27:26
for power. Absolutely. What's interesting is I'm just looking at at at at Elon's uh tweets now. He's absolutely
00:27:32
backing Trump on this um on the on what's happening and he's putting and he's you at the same time he's putting
00:27:39
out there like he just um if Elon Musk hadn't bought Twitter none of us would know what's going on in LA right now. Um
00:27:47
uh and so he's just retweeting everything anti-immigrant. He's back to that and say, you know, having he he he
00:27:54
goes, "If you talk to someone who gets all their information from Legacy Media, they're living in a different world. They're getting it from your podcast or
00:28:00
news from X. We're living in all. So, he's his fake reality. He's pretending he's he's using it to pump X, which is
00:28:07
doing rather well, you know, because of this because of his war with Trump. Um, so he's just he's back he's back into
00:28:13
the fold. And, you know, my my only thing is he's going on a bender again, Scott. He'll go on another bender. Um,
00:28:20
which is what I think happened with Trump here. Um, but he'll he's not going
00:28:25
to get back. Trump is not letting him back in. Apparently, he's quite hurt that Elon and he aren't friends anymore.
00:28:30
But I don't think Trump will let him in only if he is completely prostrate on the ground to Trump. That was the only
00:28:36
way he's getting Oh, I think Trump's probably I I think Trump wants to bring him back. All I think Trump wants to do
00:28:41
is just get him to neutral. I don't think Trump's going to let him back in. He's like, "This guy this guy is
00:28:47
dangerous, uncontrollable, very powerful. I think he's just going to want to come to some sort of day taunt
00:28:52
with the guy in just but he's not going to let him near the west lawn again. I mean, he's not there's
00:28:59
um there's no way. I will say this though. I I I think Trump's or Musk is
00:29:04
just such a a terrible role model and a weird person, but I would 100% because I
00:29:10
I have heard indirectly from Elon Musk. I would 100% accept a invitation to do a weekend in Vegas with him. I can't
00:29:16
imagine anyone better to roll with in Vegas. 48 hours. I'm in you, him and
00:29:22
Katie Miller. That'll be great. Anyway, I also want I I'd like to roll with Laura Loomer and if we can dig up the
00:29:28
spirit of David Kering kung fu, a white guy. He's a monk in the west. That's
00:29:33
right. Yes. They abuse him and then he uses his heels and his Yeah.
00:29:38
Hopper. Hate that [ __ ] Oh my god. Oh my god. Dad, in the courtship of Eddie's
00:29:45
father got me through a divorce. Hold me, Cara. Hold me. Anyway, um when one
00:29:50
thing though, Doge has collected two wins from the Supreme Court. First, the court granted an emergency application
00:29:56
filed by the Trump administration to allow members of the Doge to access social security administration data.
00:30:01
Second, SCOTA's ruled that Doge doesn't have to turn over internal records to a government watchdog group for now. Now,
00:30:07
the three liberal uh members dissented from both rulings. Uh you know, I think Doge is over. I think they're leaving.
00:30:14
There's people that are going to stay embedded, but and and different cabinet members will do what they want and use
00:30:19
the Doge people there, but you know, they've cut the head off of this thing and the Doge father, whatever he call
00:30:25
himself, the Doge father. Uh so ridiculous. This cosplaying is so stupid. Um uh so it was interesting. My
00:30:32
favorite part was Bill Gates reportedly visit the White House on Friday to argue for reversing Doge cuts. Just moving on
00:30:38
in there. And uh and and they they will all those different tech people will do whatever they're in in in Bill Gates's
00:30:45
in case he's trying to reverse USA ID things. So good for Bill for going good job Bill is what I say. Go right in
00:30:51
there. And it show showing how he was the original Doge father really and a lot godfather in a lot of ways. Um, but
00:30:58
I think uh pretty much Doge is over and and they will um the cabinet members
00:31:03
will do whatever they want, but Russell vote still remains uh in charge and trying to push through the idea of
00:31:10
dismantling government and that is certainly isn't going to stop. Doge Doge I think it's Yeah, you're right. It's
00:31:15
over. It's I'm really curious what the state of the tax bill is. I'd love to be
00:31:21
in those Senate hearings right now around if this thing has any, you know, any chance of getting through or if this
00:31:28
is all posturing from Rand Paul and the few Republican senators who claim to get it through claim to care. And if you if
00:31:35
you upload, get this, if you upload the tax bill into Chat GPT and ask it to summarize it, it says it's an
00:31:41
authoritarianism wrapped in bureaucratic language. It doesn't even talk about the tax end of it. Yeah. It talks about
00:31:47
things like essentially uh they no longer can be these senior
00:31:52
officials can no longer be found in contempt of court. It transfers massive so if any if they get congressional
00:31:59
subpoenas to come testify on an alleged crime, they can ignore them. It it massively transfers power from uh
00:32:06
agencies where it's full-time full-time government officials to a massive
00:32:12
transfer of power from them to appointed officials. I executives. It moves everything to the executive. Yeah. It
00:32:18
moves everything upward towards appointees and the executive. It's really, it's so funny that Chad GPT
00:32:24
focused on the authoritarianism as opposed to the economics of this tax bill. And it also said what was
00:32:30
interesting, one of the points it came back with was this is a really elegant legally deaf piece of legislation. If
00:32:37
Russell vote, Russell vote is the one you need not focus on Elon, that [ __ ] clown. Russell vote is the one that's
00:32:42
trying to dismantle the and and give power to the executive. That's the whole goal here. I think they'll regret it
00:32:48
when Democrats come into power if they give these powers. If it's very that that's a really interesting point and
00:32:54
again Democrats love to Again, I would love to see, you know, I would love to see uh Senator soon to be Governor
00:33:00
Bennett um basically put out a Well, there's so there's so many things the
00:33:05
Democrat friend Bennett to get up there, start talking. Yeah, I'm I'm a huge fan of the senators. You know, actually,
00:33:11
based on that, I'm I'm I am going to reach out to him this afternoon. But why wouldn't someone who's interested in
00:33:18
running for president put out a list of executive orders they're going to do on day one. Yeah. Yeah. These are the executive orders I have planned. Yeah.
00:33:25
Right. Yeah. Anyway, all right. Let's go on a quick break and when we come back, Warner Brothers Discovery is splitting
00:33:30
in two as we said it would. Scott, we're back. Warner Brothers Discovery will split into two public companies.
00:33:36
streaming and studios will be one company including movie properties and HBO Max and the other company will be
00:33:41
the global networks company including CNN, TNT Sports and Discovery. Uh CEO
00:33:47
David Zazlov will lead streaming and studios and the company's current CFO Gunnar I think his name is will become
00:33:53
the CEO of global networks business. The split is expected to be complete by the uh the middle of next year. Shares of
00:33:59
Warner Brothers Discovery up over 7% at the time of the taping, although it's they've been really down. Scott, we
00:34:04
discussed that possibility last month and uh you got this partly right, but this is something we've talked about for a while that this was going to Allah
00:34:11
Versent, which is the Comcast runoff and we both have talked about this extensively, but let's uh uh let's let's
00:34:19
listen to what we just said recently. I think I know what's going to happen here. The company's going to go good bank, bad bank. It's going to be HBO
00:34:26
Warner Brothers, the theater business, the characters, the IP, which will feed into HBO. HBO is the brand. It'll have
00:34:33
another component, a sub a subset HBO Max or something that's all the other [ __ ] and then they will spin all the TV
00:34:39
and the cable assets into they'll either consolidate or be part of a consolidator a consolidation with Comcast and that is
00:34:46
they're just these are still highly profitable businesses but they're shrinking. So that means consolidation
00:34:52
and cost cutting right which is ex it's almost exactly what happened at Comcast here. the comp which is about to almost
00:34:59
be completed I think um and therefore possibly a a merger acquisition or the
00:35:05
opposite they merge in some way the company has not yet announced that will split Warner Brothers Discovery's huge
00:35:10
debt uh 37 billion although it's it's it's cheap debt but it's still debt nonetheless um but it will take out a 17
00:35:17
billion short-term loan ahead of the split to bring down that um how should they divvy up the D this is I mean again
00:35:24
a bunch of small little boat little media boats I was on a panel with Anderson Cooper over there again after
00:35:29
they showed good night and good luck and Anderson was asking me, you know, are there going to be this big thing? I'm
00:35:34
like, no, everything's getting split up and like that's these you can't have these big entities anymore um that are
00:35:41
that are spending enormous amounts of money and don't make any sense anymore from an audience point of view. Um so
00:35:47
how how do you look at this and how should they devy up the debt? I think that's probably the most important thing here. Well, th this was absolutely the
00:35:54
smart thing to do because the market the market wants a consistent story and the
00:36:00
story around legacy cable assets are that they're still hugely profitable but they're declining businesses and really
00:36:06
the business strategy and it can be a very effective strategy for creating shareholder value is to go acquire other
00:36:12
struggling cable assets and cut costs faster than the business declines. So
00:36:17
these things usually don't decline as quickly as people think. So yeah, it's like AOL dialup. That's right. Or so if
00:36:24
there if the business is declining 6 to8% a year, as long as you can go roll it up with Comedy Central and, you know,
00:36:31
name name your teeth Bravo or whatever it is, as long as you can consolidate the back end and cut costs faster than
00:36:39
8% a year, that is accreative to the bottom line. And that's a decent trading stock. And then you have the other thing
00:36:45
that requires capital to grow because HBO and Warner are still, you know, technically growth assets. So, you have
00:36:51
to have a consistent story and these stories don't these stories don't work. So, it makes sense. Um, the argument
00:36:58
they're having right now and and and I knew this before it happened. David Zazoff gets the cool [ __ ] He gets to be
00:37:03
on the cool side. He gets Warner Brothers and HBO. Yeah. Yeah. And the CFO who has always was the bad cop who
00:37:11
actually is considered a very good executive but going his job is to consolidate and cut costs and go on a
00:37:16
nomination. He's very good at cost cutting. That's what he's known for. And to call Brian Roberts and say, "All right, how do we how do we put how do we
00:37:23
put these two things together?" And the argument they're having right now and consultants are in there and they're all
00:37:28
posturing is how much debt is is uh is the bad bank going to have to take with
00:37:34
them because they're the more profitable one in the short term. But they're all looking at I think I think they have a
00:37:40
total of about 33 billion in debt. And they're all saying, "Okay, who who has to take mom, right? Who has to it's a
00:37:47
divorce and we're taking care of our parents and they're a real liability. Who gets or dad's a real liability living upstairs? Who has who has to take
00:37:53
dad?" Right? It's like in the fight between Musk and Trump, who h who gets custody of JD Vance? Who has to take
00:38:00
him, right? So, who does? Well, they'll come to some accommodation. It won't be it won't one won't get all all the debt.
00:38:07
They'll split it, but it's just a question of what the split is, right? And they could Why should the
00:38:13
money-making one take it at all? Why should this You're the Because they have the ability to service the debt, right?
00:38:19
Okay. And and what they want to do is make sure they don't these these companies still have I existing
00:38:25
shareholders are going to get shares in both. And also if you saddle if you saddle the the bad bank the cable TV
00:38:32
news company let's call it the cable division with too much debt it creates a poison pill where no one can acquire it
00:38:39
or merge with it. So they're they're doing a delicate dance here to try and and as you you know so this reverse
00:38:47
engineers it's all very incestuous. David Zazlov was the highest paid CEO in
00:38:52
media or old media. He made $53 million 52% I believe of shareholders said we we
00:38:59
don't approve your compensation while the stock has gone down 66%. Because his compensation was tied to paying down
00:39:05
debt and he has done that. He and the CFTO have CFO have paid down the debt I think from like 50 or $55 billion. Also
00:39:11
well paid by the way. But they've got to figure out a way to figure out who's going to take who who and how much of
00:39:17
this 33 billion in debt. But this is a smart move. We knew this was coming. There's going to be massive consol
00:39:22
consolidation. What's next? What what so versent's coming out that'll be its own thing and they'll split off from NBC and
00:39:28
the it's exactly the same thing here. So what happens? Does a does a does a the
00:39:33
people buying Paramount pick up one of these things? is ABC pick it up who which has its own troubles with Terry
00:39:39
Moran doing that stupid post that he did um about Steven Miller 100% accurate but
00:39:45
he's a he's a beat reporter he never should have done that um uh what do you what do you see where
00:39:52
does it go next because we all knew this was coming so it's not like you know what's interesting I have said this
00:39:58
publicly several times over at CNN and they're all the anchor all the different
00:40:04
people there are like do you think they're going to split. I'm like, "Yeah, like that's what they're doing right now. They're figuring out how to do it,
00:40:10
you know." Um, but where does it go next? I think is really I assume they merge with either
00:40:17
they merge with a Versent kind of thing or they get bought by a by a rich guy like uh David Ellison and that gang over
00:40:24
there or or a hedge fund, right? I mean, where does it go? So the the ecosystem
00:40:31
is getting it's getting late very early and that is these are declining assets and every deal they've struck the deals
00:40:38
get worse as time goes on and I I don't know if it's legal but if it is I would
00:40:43
imagine the Roberts family the people who control Comcast are basically advising on how to structure the Warner
00:40:49
deal such that they can almost immediately merge with the bad bank of the Warner assets and start
00:40:55
consolidating the back end. There's no reason why CBS and CNN can't share a lot of the same. The CBS newsroom can't be
00:41:02
mostly the CNN newsroom and vice versa. Does that create the same thing they're in now with if it mixing Paramount with
00:41:10
them? Is it just richer people? Because it's the same it just puts instead of Warner Brothers is Paramount. Well, I
00:41:16
No, what I'm suggesting is is just that we don't need all these newsrooms. News rooms are really expensive. You might
00:41:22
have different front-facing brands with different distinct audiences and advertiser relationships, but you'll
00:41:28
say, "Okay, CBS Newsroom and CNN Newsroom. They're each a thousand people." Uh, combined they're going to
00:41:34
be 1,200 people. And we're going to rebrand it and we have our front-end anchors. We have I forget it's Gail
00:41:39
Keane, CBS, I forget, and Anderson Cooper over here. But a lot of the back end and the office space and the studios
00:41:45
and the benefits and the HR manager and the CFOs and the tech people and the you know it's all going to be they've got to
00:41:50
massively consolidate the back end and what why would Paramount grab it because again I don't know if it would be
00:41:56
Paramount. I I was just using an example Paramount. So merge NBC with CNN. I
00:42:02
think the most the mo the cleanest one right now the most obvious is Comcast's assets and Warner but because Paramount
00:42:09
Mhm. Jesus Christ, she is being backed into a corner. There is a nonzero probability right now. The National
00:42:17
Amusements Paramount declares bankruptcy in the next 12 months. Well, it's owned by it's going to be owned by a wealthy
00:42:24
group of people. It's But they Yeah, but here's the thing, Cara. The FC the FTC
00:42:30
will not approve this until Trump gets his pound of flesh from his ridiculous
00:42:37
60 Minutes lawsuit of which Sherry is under huge pressure not to bend a knee.
00:42:43
If she doesn't bend a knee, the FTC will not approve this transaction. And she
00:42:49
has somewhere between, based on what I've read, somewhere between a quarter of a billion and half a billion dollars in debts coming due from loans from
00:42:57
David Ellison's father and money she owes investment banks. And if she can't pay that debt, they can bump her into a
00:43:04
restructuring at which point all the suitors go, "You're weak. We're not paying you this. We're paying you less."
00:43:12
So she's in a really weird spot right now. So she's got some health problems, too. and she has and she's battling
00:43:18
thyroid cancer. So this ecosystem, this is going to be a
00:43:24
very interesting 12 or 24 months. Yeah, it'll be interesting where it all ends up. What's your likelihood? I would
00:43:29
assume maybe the Warner Brothers assets and the Comcast assets get brought together, right? That's% CNN, NBC. And
00:43:37
that's why I was saying Brian Roberts and his team, and they're very smart, is probably in conversations if it's legal.
00:43:44
I'm trying to think if they're allowed to do that. If it's uh to say this is how this is what the combined company we
00:43:51
look would look like and how we make this the as seamless as possible post
00:43:57
post the spin and of course it would make sense for for those guy the Versent group they'd be stronger they'd have
00:44:03
more options they could cut costs better um there you know they'd have the MSNBC
00:44:09
more you know more obviously like Fox New like why do MSNBC and CNN need IND
00:44:16
independent newsrooms. I mean, this is heresy. Actually, the NBC newsroom is going with the other with the other
00:44:22
gang. Yeah. So, the newsroom itself is actually the actual news gatherers. But
00:44:27
what you said, I I I don't think it's going to happen that it might be a hedge fund. Because here's the thing, the
00:44:33
numbers, even at these discounted numbers, they still don't make financial sense. And what's telling is that the
00:44:38
three people surrounding the Paramount sale, obviously Sher Redstone, Edgar Bronman was in there for a while and
00:44:45
then David Ellison, what do all three of these people have in common? Rich kids, as you noticed, they're rich kids because guess what? Anyone who didn't
00:44:51
make their own anyone who made their own money and understands how to make money and understands how to read who took
00:44:57
accounting and and and makes money doesn't spend daddy's money isn't getting [ __ ] near these things
00:45:03
because these guys David Zazlov and David Ellison are willing to overpay with other people's money so they can go
00:45:10
to the Academy Awards and hedge funds aren't allowed to do that. I I mean um
00:45:16
uh a friend of mine co-founded Anchorage and his co-founder bought Lionsgate and I remember saying there's cheaper ways
00:45:22
to go to the Academy Awards and he ended up getting bailed out by Amazon and actually making money but these are it
00:45:29
there's no accident that the players here are all rich kids. Yeah, it's interesting. We'll see what happens. But
00:45:34
uh but I'm sure uh there'll definitely be a consolidation here. A very obvious consolidation. It's a question of which
00:45:40
way it happens. And the thing is they get outsized attention given how small they are compared to other businesses.
00:45:46
Uh I keep saying that. I'm like you know you're little. You know you're little compar you're not who you used to be. Um
00:45:52
by the way that was a really fun thing for them showing off good night and good luck on the network. I thought that was
00:45:58
just a lovely thing to do. Um all right one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. Okay Scott let's hear
00:46:05
some wins and fails. I guess I'll go first. There were a lot of options for me for the win. DC public schools will
00:46:12
enforce a cell phone ban starting next year. My my kids are in DC public schools. I'm very happy about that. Um
00:46:17
also um uh the the Tony's were amazing were amazing were really fun. I love
00:46:23
Cynthia Revo. She provided a really good show and even though that's a small business too in a lot of ways I thought
00:46:28
they did a it was really fun and entertaining which is what they should be. Um and minimum of lecturing it was
00:46:34
just really good performances especially bringing back the Hamilton group together to sing. It was super fun. Um,
00:46:40
but I think my my win of the week is you seeing you in a satin boxing rope, Scott. Um, I have to say, first of all,
00:46:48
I sent it to Alex. He's like, Scott's in good shape for for for a man of his age, essentially. Um, I that was looked
00:46:55
really fun. You looked adorable. What a cute thing. You were you were But your shirt off was the best part with the
00:47:00
drag queens. I loved this Scott Galloway who's yelling at Beers Morgan who's
00:47:06
wearing a box. I like this guy. I like what I've made here, this man that I've affected in some way. But tell me,
00:47:12
explain to me how that went very briefly. Uh, a good friend of mine, Pablo Doritus, does this thing called
00:47:17
the final rumble where two people pretend to be boxers. They answer questions, they each answer them, and
00:47:22
then the crowd decides who wins the round. At the end of the bout, you get a belt on based on who wins. So, the last
00:47:28
one was Anthony Scaramucci versus Kevin Olirri. And this one was me and a really
00:47:34
impressive young man named Sher Michael. Michael Singleton, who I just thought was lovely, and I hope I hope there's
00:47:40
more conservatives like him. Mhm. Yeah. I mean, let's be honest. I'm in Detroit. I go up against a 34 year old black
00:47:46
Republican. The odds were he was going to win. I mean, but he didn't. You won. Um Yeah. Well, you know, Daddy Daddy
00:47:53
did. How'd you win? You had the belt. I had the belt. You going to wear that? Um but it was a ton of fun. I really
00:47:59
enjoyed it. And the the the thing I'm so excited about is like I said to Pablo, I said, "Okay, but I get to announce my
00:48:05
entrance." You know, when boxers come out. Yeah. Yeah. And Shir Michaels was really good. He did a He did a drum line from an all black uh I think college or
00:48:13
high school in in Detroit. It was really cool. And I went through no small effort
00:48:18
and experience. He was wearing a suit. It looked like he looked like he was Yeah. What a mistake. I found five drag
00:48:24
He's a handsome man, by the way. He's a handsome man. He's a good-look kid. And I found five drag queens. And it was
00:48:30
that was the best part of it. And that's why you won. Oh my god. entirely why you was I came out I came out as you noticed
00:48:37
with no shirtless with drag queens. Oh god that was it for me that I could you
00:48:43
worked out extra like I got to say you look I've seen you somewhat naked. You look you look like you're in much better
00:48:48
shape. You did some work there to get to that. Oh yeah working out four times a week for 40 years. Must be the testosterone. Anyways testosterone,
00:48:55
excuse me. That was that was that was the best. But that was a lot of fun. Thanks for the kind words. I really
00:49:00
enjoyed it. that to me it should have been a fail but Scott it was a win that and my fail obviously Trump's ridiculous
00:49:07
behavior but I'm gonna do a tech one um Bill Atkinson who was Apple computer designer and created software that
00:49:12
enabled the visual approach of Alisa and Macintosh computers died of pancreatic cancer here's an unsung hero of there's
00:49:19
several of them who including people who are living like Susan care and others but Bill Atinson was a critical critical
00:49:25
the way we compute today is because of inventions from people uh like him And
00:49:30
what a really important inventor. Um, lovely guy. Um, and just one of these
00:49:36
people you don't, you know, you hear about some of them like Johnny Ibe and others, but Bill Atinson was just a
00:49:42
really critical person to the development, early development of computer uh, computer design and
00:49:47
everything. Just uh, as I said, a lovely person and um, sadly had pancreatic
00:49:52
cancer. Um, but uh, that was my fail. But people should look him up, read about him. He's an important figure. Um,
00:49:59
and you you will have never heard of him, but he was critically important. What about you, Scott? Besides your
00:50:04
nudity drag queen thing, um, my win is just to call balls and strikes, there is
00:50:10
one component of the GOP tax bill that I do like. So, they're talking about increasing the tax on the profits of
00:50:17
endowments from a little over 1% to upwards of 21%. Aimed at Harvard, I
00:50:22
assume. Well, let's be honest. It's a it's a war on education for the wrong reasons, but that doesn't mean it can't have positive outcomes. And the bill
00:50:29
does say unless they spend more than 5% uh of their endowments, they need to stop hoarding wealth. And I believe
00:50:35
American universities largely set the tone for uh big components of America
00:50:40
and this rejectionist [ __ ] culture where we're hoarding money instead of spending it on financial aid. We're
00:50:45
expanding the size of freshman classes such that these institutions can sit on endowments the size of the Costa Rican
00:50:52
GDP. Meanwhile, they decide to only let in 500 people. That means you're no longer a public servant. You're you're
00:50:57
in a mess bag. So, they should you want them to spend that money so they don't get taxed on it. And because of the
00:51:02
threat in this bill of these taxes on their endowments going from 1 and a.5% to potentially 23, they are proposing a
00:51:08
solution where they would spend at least 5% each year of their endowments on things like financial aid, new
00:51:15
facilities, the local economy, or expanding freshman seats. And that is exactly what they should be doing. There
00:51:20
is no reason these elite universities, I mean, I've said this before. If higher
00:51:25
education were a pharmaceutical, it's a pill that makes you less likely to be obese, more likely to get married, more
00:51:31
likely to stay married, more likely more likely to be civically involved, less likely to kill yourself, less likely to
00:51:37
be obese. And that pill is called higher ed. So why would we hoard that pill and
00:51:42
make it so expensive when we have the ability to distribute that pill to vastly more of the American public? So,
00:51:50
I'm hoping that one one benefit even if this bill doesn't doesn't go through, which I hope it doesn't, is universities
00:51:56
are responding and saying, "Okay, we get it. We should probably if if we have $6
00:52:03
million per student, maybe we should spend money on financial aid and maybe letting in a few more students that that
00:52:11
we have to stop this culture of hoarding amongst the most fortunate and blessed."
00:52:17
So, I'm that's my win. I think un the wrong reasons but the right thing. That's right. I think I think an outcome
00:52:22
of this might be the universities realized once you get above a certain point your job is to spend the money and
00:52:27
add value not to hoard wealth. Okay. And I think that's a lesson for Americans. I I you know I decided seven years ago I
00:52:34
was going to spend everything above a certain amount or give it away. Hoarding wealth is really a virus in America and it it affects people and it affects
00:52:41
institutions. Anyway, my fail is the renaming or the dnaming of the USNS
00:52:47
Harvey Mil. So Harvey Mil um um uh many people some people might not
00:52:54
know him. I know you know him. Uh but essentially Harvey Mil who was uh a US
00:52:59
supervisor, one of the first openly gay people to be elected in San to be elected anywhere. First one of the first
00:53:05
openly gay officials to be elected. Um he was also most people don't know this. He was in um uh he served during the
00:53:13
Korean War on a submarine rescue ship and later as a diving instructor and his military review records uh used the word
00:53:21
outstanding and he was promoted to officer and then in 1955 his superiors learned that he was
00:53:28
gay and they gave him a choice. They said either resign and forfeit your military benefits with something called
00:53:35
other other than honor. And so he had to give up his military benefits or face
00:53:40
court marshal. So he resigned and then he went on to be uh he went on to be a
00:53:47
uh what's the term of supervisor? He was supervisor and he was murdered alongside the mayor Muscone by a fellow
00:53:54
supervisor. And what do you know the first week of Pride Week and let me back up 20 I think
00:54:00
it was 2017 they said he served honorably maybe a way of compensating and also a way of recognizing and giving
00:54:07
a nod to what is probably 5% if not more of our nation's armed services consists
00:54:13
of gay people given that somewhere between five and 8% of the US population identifies as gay. They've played such a
00:54:20
huge role. Wouldn't it be nice to give this guy his his overdue recognition and name a ship? And they named this basically this oil tanker that's not a
00:54:27
an especially important ship the USNS Harvey Mil. Secretary Hegsth in the first week of Pride
00:54:35
Week commands issues an order to rename the ship and saying that this is in line
00:54:41
with restoring what they call a warrior mentality or warrior culture. It is just
00:54:46
such an affront to the gay community. It is so deeply bigoted. It is so unnecessary. It is so cruel. It is just
00:54:53
so [ __ ] weird and even distinct of the moral argument. What does that say to gay people who want to be in the armed
00:54:59
services? And folks, just so you know, the straight people showing up or the straight men and the gay men, I imagine
00:55:05
twothirds of them or 70% of them can't get through the initial screening because they either are obese or
00:55:11
mentally unfit. So you want to take an additional 5% of the population and say
00:55:16
you're not welcome here. And distinct of the moral argument, I can pretty much prove to anyone that gay people are no
00:55:23
better or no worse than defending our shores and killing bad people. And so you're making us less safe when you
00:55:31
decide to inhibit the pool of people to defend our country, you are making us
00:55:37
less safe. So this not only like weird and straight straight up bigoted against
00:55:42
a guy who served his country honorably and was was unjustifiably discharged, right? A small
00:55:50
nod to him. A small nod to the gay community. Oh no, we can't let that stand. And it makes us weaker. It makes
00:55:57
us What is the message we're sending to good young gay men and women who want to
00:56:03
serve their country? I know you experienced a little bit of this. I wanted to be in the military, Scott, and I wasn't because I didn't want to lie.
00:56:10
And you refuse to go along with don't ask, don't tell. Yeah. That makes us weaker when we Yeah. My dad was in the
00:56:16
Navy. My dad was When we shrink the pool of potentially great great human capital, it makes us weaker. So my fail
00:56:24
is this bigoted, weak, and weird renaming of the USNS Harvey Mil. This
00:56:32
was a really important man that gave people a lot of comfort, made it probably a lot easier for people to to
00:56:39
represent their community in a transparent way in leadership positions. And there's something just very And by
00:56:44
the way, I don't I didn't like it when Civil War general statues were torn down. I think it's part of history. If
00:56:52
the community decides they want to tear it down, fine. But I thought we got way too [ __ ] woke and started tearing
00:56:57
down people in a whole different way. There were people in London who wanted to tear down statues of Churchill. I
00:57:04
mean, I hate What do you call it when it's the right doing this? Is it woke or is it just drunk in the case of Pete
00:57:11
Head? Well, this is just straight up bigotry. Yeah, this is just straight up homophobia and bigotry. But all of these
00:57:17
things make us less strong. I mean, it does does. Thank you, Scott. Anyway, so
00:57:22
that's my fail is the weak. Harvey Milk was a great leader in San Francisco and was was killed by murdered doing his
00:57:29
job. Murdered doing in city hall. Um and that's you know which by the way gave rise to uh Diane Feinstein supervisor
00:57:36
who became mayor Diane Feinstein who went on to be you know a very important senator. Mhm. Anyway, just a great he to
00:57:42
this day there's a place near my house like a block from my house where they have the his he had a he had a
00:57:48
photography store in the Castro. You can go visit it. It's there's a plaque to him and uh and he where he did his
00:57:54
business. He was a business person too by the way in this in a very successful business person of he had a photography
00:58:00
store. Anyway, uh thank you Scott. God Scott you what is happening? What is h we're switching roles here. It's really
00:58:06
interesting. I I'll start telling penis jokes and everything else. I'm moving to San Francisco. You are you're going to
00:58:12
move to my house. Anyway, we want that was a great one. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your
00:58:18
mind. Go to nymag.com/pivot to submit a question for the show or call 85551 pivot. A
00:58:24
reminder, we have another live call-in show coming up. Call or email us and let us know what you'd like to ask us and
00:58:29
make it spicy. We like spicy. Elsewhere in the Cara and Scott universe this week on On with Cara Swisser, I spoke with to
00:58:36
NPR CEO Katherine Maher. Let's listen to a clip of her discussing NPR's lawsuit
00:58:42
against the Trump administration. My concern is that this makes this feel as though we are in some way in an
00:58:48
adversarial posture to the administration. Um, which is not the right. Yeah. Well, it is, but I mean
00:58:55
I of course, but I it's an adversarial posture in response to an adversarial
00:59:01
action and that adversarial action is one that we believe to be unconstitutional. So, I mean, if
00:59:06
anything, I would say it's our patriotic responsibility to defend the First Amendment as a media organization. She
00:59:13
was really impressive. She's from tech. She ran Wikipdia. She's terrific and really it's a great interview. Um, okay.
00:59:19
That's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back on
00:59:26
Friday. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Lara Name and Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver. Ernie
00:59:31
or Todd entry in this episode thanks also to Drew Burrough, Miss Aaro, and Dan Chalon. The Shock Crow as Fox meet
00:59:37
is executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening
00:59:42
to Pivot from New York Magazine Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/pod. We'll be back later this
00:59:48
week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. This isn't law and
00:59:54
order. It's fascism foreplay. You don't need troops in the streets. You need leaders with spines and policies that
01:00:00
don't read like rejected plot lines from the man in the high castle. What's going
01:00:05
on here has nothing to do with patriotism. has everything to do with authoritarianism.
