00:00:00
Good evening, Chicago,
00:00:05
greatest city in America. Well, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:12
Welcome to the podcast that cuts through all the spin. We're talking about Pivot
00:00:17
with Carara Swisser and Scott Galloway.
00:00:23
Now, these two break down the biggest stories and aren't afraid to call anyone out.
00:00:30
Pivot is honest, informative, never boring. And that's why it's so smart
00:00:36
that Cara and Scott have come to Chicago because this is a city that's always
00:00:42
been about innovation, hard work, and telling it like it is.
00:00:51
So, no better place to be in the country than here in Chicago tonight. So, please
00:00:56
join me in welcoming Cara Swisser and Scott Galloway.
00:01:23
I you know Washington was a little louder. So let's try that again. No.
00:01:30
Oh boo Washington. Oh, what do you think? I'm Trump at a football game. Cut it out.
00:01:44
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00:04:00
Hi everyone, live from the Chicago Theater. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
00:04:07
Network.
00:04:15
I'm Carara Swisser and I'm Scott Galloway. And before we start, I want to send, as
00:04:20
I said, a big thank you to our sponsors, ODU and Upwork. And please give a huge round of applause to tonight's special
00:04:27
guest, Governor JB Pritsker.
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I think I think you're popular. I'm not hearing booing. Um uh so we're going to
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talk about a couple of things. Um I'll ask you at the end about Epstein. Apparently there was some news today.
00:04:49
Any quick thoughts? Actually, there's nothing quick about it except
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Trump, Epstein, I think we know what happened there. Okay. Um, it's really interesting. Uh,
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just as they got back and they did seat the representative which pushed it over the edge and actually others did join in. Um, we'll talk about it more, but
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um, I want to actually talk about Chicago and about the controversial immigration operations that have taken
00:05:13
place in the city after nearly 60 days. Agreed.
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uh Border Patrol official Gregory Bo who's trying I guess he's trying
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he's trying to get cast as the guy that got his face melted in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Um
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he's too short for that. Any many of his agents are reportedly
00:05:38
planning to leave as early as this week with the Trump administration's downshift
00:05:44
of operation midway blitz. I don't know where they come up with these names. The summer reports indic reports indicate
00:05:49
that federal agents could return four-fold in the spring. I guess they want they can't take the weather because
00:05:54
they're wimps like you guys can because they're snowflakes. Exactly. So, how do you continue to navigate the
00:06:01
push and pull on this strange federal immigration enforcement?
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Well, let me start by saying, and I really am not pandering to this audience, it's the people of Chicago
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that have truly reacted to them. and protected our neighbors and our
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friends. People have come out. The number of whistles that have been purchased all acmarked
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vehicles and guys wearing masks. Uh people are coming out of their homes. People who've never protested before,
00:06:32
people who've never been engaged before, they're outraged and they're coming out to warn their neighbors and their
00:06:38
friends, you know, ICE is here. Be careful. Protect yourself. Know what your rights are. And the people of
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Chicago have just done a terrific job. For two months now, they've been under siege by Customs and Border Patrol, by
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ICE, by Gregory Bavino, and uh and this city really stepped up, activated,
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peacefully protested, and has pushed back. I'm really proud of everyone. So, what how do you how do you deal with
00:07:03
this working presumably with the mayor, but how do you how they don't call you, right? You don't know a lot.
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They don't communicate at all. It's the first time that I I think in my lifetime
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uh that the federal government isn't talking to the state government about operations that it wants to do in our
00:07:20
state. And uh it's very frustrating. So we read things in the news that come from, you know, they've got this uh this
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uh lying spokesperson at the Department of Homeland Security, Trisha Mclofflin,
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who literally I mean everything that comes out of her mouth is false. uh and
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that's how the news gets the information and then we've got to figure out what's
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true not true in reality and then tell the news and of course react to it. So it's it's very challenging but I will
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say that um we've seen uh a lot of really terrible things on the ground. I
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think everybody here probably has witnessed something. Um, we've asked people and they've reacted to it to pull
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out their phones, their iPhones, their Android phones and video everything you see. And you know what that's led to?
00:08:10
Federal cases that we have won. Thank you. So,
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so presumably you're not in touch with Christy Gnome, correct? Yeah, Christie doesn't call me. I don't
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know why. Now, h how does it usually work? I mean, some governor, some people are asking
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some of those sort of pandering uh officials want them to come in. Why Why
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do you think they targeted you? You're running because you might be running for president. What do you think is the I don't think they targeted me. I mean,
00:08:39
Donald Trump has had a problem with Chicago for as long as anyone's heard anything out of his mouth really. Um, he
00:08:45
attacked Chicago. He did back in 2016. Uh, he does all the time. He has this idea in his head that everything's on
00:08:51
fire here. He said the same about Portland, I might add. I'm not sure why, but and guess what? Those are the first
00:08:57
two cities um well beyond LA anyway, that they uh sent ICE and CBP into. Um
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but I all I can say is that, you know, they thought they were going to be successful here. They have not been
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successful. Again, thanks to the people of Chicago. And they're not just in Chicago. I want to just give a shout
00:09:18
out. Um, you know, ICE and CBP really have been all over the state, uh, in the
00:09:24
suburbs as well as downstate. And there's a little town, I'll just tell you a quick story, a little town called Stuntton, Illinois in central Illinois,
00:09:32
where there's a an undocumented man who's raised his family there. He's got a wife and kids that go to school there.
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He owns a restaurant there. U, he's been in this country for 20 plus years. And
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uh they arrived in Stuntton, Illinois in central Illinois and they grabbed this guy and disappeared him for a whole day.
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His family didn't know where he went to. Uh and the town of Stuntton, 4,000
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people live in this town. 500 people showed up to protest.
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So where does if they come back in the spring, what what are your what is your
00:10:08
move if they come back with four times the force? The unfortunate thing is that
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because of the supremacy clause in the constitution, federal law enforcement
00:10:19
has the ability to as long as they are following federal law. And you ought to take note, they're not following federal
00:10:26
law, but there's no one that's holding them accountable at the federal level. But they are allowed, they have uh
00:10:32
limited immunity as officers of the law, uh even if they aren't following the
00:10:38
law. And so they it is very hard to push back on them. So, the way that we've done it here is number one, we've made
00:10:44
sure everybody knows what their rights are. And I'm talking about undocumented people, and I bet we all know somebody.
00:10:49
They overstayed their visa, something. They're here in this state for one reason or another, but have been here
00:10:55
for a long time paying their taxes, following the law, raising their families. They're good neighbors and
00:11:00
friends. They're they're their workers. And uh they've been here quite a long time. and and you know they they're
00:11:08
coming for th those are the people supposedly they're coming for rather than criminals rather than the worst of the worst which
00:11:13
is what Donald Trump said that that he was going after. Instead they're stopping people who are have brown skin
00:11:20
or black skin and just asking them for their uh United States citizenship
00:11:25
papers. I don't know about any of you but I don't carry citizenship papers and we shouldn't have to in this country.
00:11:31
So Scott So, I I um voices to the governor when
00:11:39
he was on the podcast, "Every year I do a bucket list with my sons. I say, "It's our weekend. We can do whatever you
00:11:44
want." My oldest wanted to go to a PSG game in Paris. And my youngest, we live in London, said, "I really want to go to
00:11:50
Chicago." So, we came here, Steakhouse, batting
00:11:57
cage, went to the tallest building in Chicago, which every kid has to do. uh had a by just had a fantastic weekend.
00:12:04
If you think of cities and states as a product, right? You're a relatively high tax state, not the highest. Uh you offer
00:12:13
uh services, economic opportunity, but pitch the product that is Illinois and
00:12:20
Chicago. Like why? As as imagine you're a recent college grad with just a ton of
00:12:26
options or an immigrant that has incredible human capital and could go anywhere. Um what's the pitch? Sell me
00:12:34
on Illinois as a place to choose to spend my
00:12:39
formative or young adult years. I I might add that I I'll make the pitch, but I will tell you that this is
00:12:46
the destination for most kids at universities in the Midwest. We have an
00:12:52
enormous influx of people here from Michigan, from Indiana, from uh
00:12:58
Missouri, and so on. People want to come to the city of Chicago, the young people uh coming here. I mean, it's an
00:13:04
exciting, vibrant city. Uh I would say there are several things. I mean first if you're a young person uh we've got
00:13:11
you know great jobs at tech companies we are growing interesting uh fact I heard
00:13:17
from Google which is within Google maybe somebody here's from Google um but there
00:13:22
you go I heard that within Google if you want to transfer around to one of the other offices either because your spouse
00:13:27
is moving or whatever the the most requested
00:13:33
place to move to in the United States is Chicago and
00:13:39
and and they just are I don't know if any of you have seen but they just Google it are moving to the center of
00:13:46
the city of Chicago. They actually bought the building from us from the state of Illinois and they're redoing it
00:13:52
and it's going to be absolutely gorgeous. So, um it's a great vibrant city where there are a lot of really good jobs whether it's the tech
00:13:58
businesses or um I'll just add it's a great sports town
00:14:05
and uh importantly a great place to raise your family. And I I last thing is
00:14:11
I lived, you know, I I've lived in in lots of different places when I was younger. I lived in uh went to school in
00:14:17
North Carolina, you know, uh lived in California, lived in Washington DC, uh
00:14:22
lived in just outside of Boston. So, a lot of different places. And I can say this, no more decent people in a big
00:14:31
city than in the city of Chicago, right? Um I think I think Scott was
00:14:36
looking for what's your favorite bar tip, but that's okay. Um uh one issue
00:14:42
about the just this week uh President Trump said the Miracle Miles shopping
00:14:47
center which in Chicago I covered retail here by the way once covered our nation's once considered our nation's
00:14:54
best now more than 28% vacancy factor and is ready to call it quits unless something is done about murder and crime
00:15:00
which is prevalent throughout the city. Call in the troops f this is in all caps. Call in the troops fast before it
00:15:06
is too late. So, first of all, it's the Magnificent Mile. It's It's not Thank you. It's not a shopping center. Um, and
00:15:13
you said in response, and this was interesting, the man is demented. He really has no idea what he's doing. Um,
00:15:25
that's an interesting choice of words. Uh, but but I would assume the city's capable of handling real estate
00:15:31
vacancies without federal intervention. Yeah, he look he, like I said, he loves
00:15:37
to dump on the city of Chicago. Uh the reality is that that honestly this state
00:15:42
is on the rise. This city is on the We've got We have a lot of really great things going for us. And it doesn't help
00:15:48
when you have the president of the United States with some crazy notion of what the city is. He doesn't come here.
00:15:54
Uh, I think if you, you know, he's got such a bad rep with everybody in Chicago that if you ask most people, they'd like
00:16:00
to tear the the name Trump off that building of his. Yeah.
00:16:11
Uh, you know what's wrong with it? The font is wrong. It's badly sized font. It
00:16:16
really is. It's offensive. Yeah. Yeah. I I yeah, there's other
00:16:21
things that are wrong with Trump, but uh uh but I I I will say this that he's,
00:16:27
you know, um he likes to dump on us, but he he just he doesn't read. Apparently,
00:16:32
he doesn't spend any time Yeah. trying to understand anything at all. And if he did, because he also put a tweet out or
00:16:39
whatever his I don't know, truth, false, whatever it is, tr social. Um uh
00:16:45
but he he put something out, you know, where he was he claimed credit for the
00:16:51
last four years of crime coming down precipitously in the city of Chicago.
00:16:57
And I mean our our our homicide rate has been cut in half. And they've been here for two months, you know, not getting
00:17:03
the worst of the worst off the streets. And he put out something today or yesterday claiming that any success
00:17:09
we've had has been because of him. And again, all I can say is he does he
00:17:16
should, you know, I wish he well, I don't really wish he would spend more time here. Uh but but I mean, if he
00:17:22
understood this city, uh you know, like most people who come here and spend any time here, it's a great city and and he
00:17:29
should know it. But um I I uh anyway, I'm I'm I'm frustrated by You demented. You stick with demented.
00:17:35
I got to stick with demented. I I I mean otherwise like almost everything that comes out of his mouth is false.
00:17:42
So, I'm frustrated because he's got the biggest bully pulpit in the world and
00:17:48
he's, you know, talking crap about the city of Chicago and all I can say is I
00:17:54
mean the all the people I bet a lot of people that are in the audience move to the city of Chicago and will vouch for
00:18:01
the city with everyone. You know, support for the show comes from ODO.
00:18:06
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00:19:07
This country is in the middle of a massive redistricting war, the term control of Congress. Apparently, the
00:19:12
Republicans might actually lose seats now uh through their redistricting because they're turning pink or purple,
00:19:18
especially in Texas. But they're only up a half a seat right now and possibly down four through their efforts. But
00:19:24
Illinois, what what what is going to happen here? Well, I've been
00:19:30
say we're going to take a poll tonight. Um uh you know they they're going state
00:19:36
by state, right? Uh Republicans are and trying to get well Donald Trump is trying to get the governors and the
00:19:42
Republican legislators to redistrict and Indiana right next door to us has been
00:19:48
on again, off again, on again. They're they're trying to do it. Uh and what I've said is that and there's been a
00:19:55
pairing of states by the way. Missouri is trying to do it and therefore Maryland might do it in order to cancel
00:20:00
out Missouri. California did it to cancel out Texas.
00:20:06
Uh, you know, if Indiana does it and they're going to meet in December to decide, I I think that would push
00:20:12
Illinois toward redistricting. So,
00:20:17
but I will I will add we have 14 Democrats out of 17 seats. So, um, we're
00:20:23
doing okay. Democrats are doing okay in this state. So, uh, two questions. First
00:20:28
is, do you think the seven Democratic senators should have voted to end the shutdown?
00:20:38
There were eight, by the way. Eight. Um, and uh, and I know every single one
00:20:43
of those people. Uh, and I can tell you that I mean that that's probably the biggest mistake I've seen maybe in my
00:20:50
political career. Um it was the wrong thing to do. Uh Democrats won eight days
00:20:57
ago everywhere in the country that there was a an election. Yeah. And I I would have thought that would
00:21:04
stiffen their spines in the United States Senate not loosen them. And
00:21:09
unfortunately we saw people who are retiring. It makes no sense to me. People that are retiring who have really
00:21:15
nothing politically to lose uh and should have it's part of the scheme presumably,
00:21:20
right? It's it's a scheme. Exactly. But I I'm frustrated and and you know, I
00:21:27
I you know, one of them was our senior senator here. I was I was dis I was very
00:21:33
disappointed. He he's had a he's really done a lot of good things for the state, a lot of good things for the country. I
00:21:40
was disappointed in his decision to do that. Our other senator, who I think extraordinarily highly of, also
00:21:45
criticized the senior senator, her name is Tammy Duckworth. He did a great job and voted against it.
00:21:50
So why do you think why do you why do you think they did it? What was your theory? I mean there was all these
00:21:55
theories of game the I understand but there's also these game theory thing that's out there.
00:22:00
I think many of them had come and you heard them some of them at press conferences yesterday. Um I think they
00:22:06
came to the conclusion that that you know this has gone on for so long that it's hurting people and that they could
00:22:13
rescue the country from this situation. But the reality is the guy who created
00:22:19
this problem is Donald Trump. And he's the guy who refused to sit down with Democrats. By the way, what was he
00:22:25
doing? Why did he hold out and not sit down with Democrats and go along with he
00:22:30
wanted to shut the government down? Why? And the reason I mean this is the crazy thing. He wants to deny people
00:22:38
food in order to force the country to accept less healthcare. I mean, what is
00:22:44
the logic? Your job as president of the United States is to make people's lives better. Democrats just wanted health
00:22:50
care, a restoration of affordable health care. That's all Democrats wanted. And
00:22:56
Donald Trump was willing to starve people in order to hold to his position. you know, it's it's it's arguably one of
00:23:03
the best uh campaign slogans of the 21st century is that we would, you know, that
00:23:10
Democrats are the ones who are fighting for people to get fed and get healthcare and that it's the Republicans and Donald
00:23:17
Trump who are willing to stand against it. And so I don't get it. I really don't do it though. Why did the Democrat
00:23:22
I I again I thought I think that they felt like we're running up against Thanksgiving that people aren't going to
00:23:28
be able to get their flights to wherever it is that they want to go that that that the public will hold both parties
00:23:34
and maybe Democrats more so for some reason uh responsible. But the reality
00:23:39
is that that's not what was happening, right? I mean Republicans rightly so. They're in control. They've literally
00:23:45
got every branch of government in their hands and they are the ones responsible for this. And yet these eight decided to
00:23:52
give in. I It is too bad. You know, the Democrats, people rely upon Democrats to
00:23:58
do the responsible thing all the time. Guess what? Who who's doing that? The Republicans in Congress and Donald Trump
00:24:05
are the ones who are, you know, we've got to go do the right thing so that they can get away with murder.
00:24:12
So, um, two more quick questions. One, we talked to Governor Healey in Boston about their efforts to make Massachusetts an AI hub. you're leaning
00:24:19
into quantum computing. Talk really briefly about the strategy here. So, yeah, we've got we've got first of
00:24:25
all, we've got some of the best institutions in the entire country uh for building quantum and AI. We've got
00:24:32
Argon National Laboratory, Fairmy Lab, University of Chicago, University of Illinois, Northwestern. Uh not to
00:24:38
mention, as I I mentioned those mid those Midwest institutions, Purdue, University of Wisconsin, Madison, etc.
00:24:46
All great places, right? and people come here to Chicago, they want to come here. So, we have all the makings of it to
00:24:52
begin with. Second, University of Chicago came to me in 2019, uh, wanting
00:24:57
to build out what's called the Chicago Quantum Exchange, and I had just passed or was about to pass uh, a major
00:25:04
infrastructure bill for the state, one that hadn't been passed, I mean, we hadn't had anything like that really ever in our history. uh and asked if we
00:25:11
would invest in making Illinois and the Chicago Quantum Exchange uh the the the
00:25:17
hub of quantum for the country and I insisted that the University of Illinois be the partner in that endeavor and
00:25:24
putting that together and then we we're now building a quantum campus that has made that has really put us on the map
00:25:30
that there's there are three states that are going after being the quantum hub of the country Colorado, Maryland and
00:25:35
Illinois and we are in the lead. Okay. Hey, Tara. Can I do a quick So, I want
00:25:43
you to imagine that you're a popular governor and you decide to run for president. Yeah, that's the question I was going to
00:25:48
ask. Go for it. What am I imagining? What What was that? Running for president. Oh, I just want to do a lightning round,
00:25:54
quick responses, gut response on some policy ideas. Uh, mandatory national
00:25:59
service. We've got to train people for the jobs of the future. I believe that doing some
00:26:06
kind of service uh allowing people to go to trade school potentially in that
00:26:12
service, right? Whether it's so we're not talking necessarily about military service, but just serving the country.
00:26:17
We've got a whole lot of infrastructure that get needs to get built. I think that would be a great way for people to
00:26:23
operate. Uh lower eligibility for Medicare by three years every year in office such
00:26:29
that it's 41 by the time you leave. Basically, a move towards nationalized socialized medicine. Woo.
00:26:35
Lowering it every couple of years. Socialized medicine. Socialized medicine. Lowering Medicare. Oh, I'm for universal healthcare. I've
00:26:41
been I'm I'm I believe everybody deserves to have a doctor and have Fair enough. Universal universal
00:26:46
childare. Are you kidding me? I I came into office with 25 years of child care and and
00:26:53
federal minimum wage from 725 to say 20 or $25 an hour. What was raise the minimum wage?
00:26:58
Oh. Oh, are you kidding? This is my topic. um uh you know $14,000 a year no
00:27:04
one can live on anymore. That's $7.25. That is the national minimum wage. So if
00:27:09
you don't live in a state like Illinois where I helped to raise it to $15 an hour, you are living in poverty and
00:27:17
holding down a full-time probably two full-time jobs, making $28,000 a year if
00:27:22
you work two full-time jobs, unable to really raise your family while you're doing it if you're working two jobs. Uh,
00:27:29
and so I, yeah, I'm a big believer that we've got to raise the national minimum wage, $725, by the way. Greatest
00:27:36
political issue ever. To what? Minimum wage. Well, at least $15. That's what we've done here in the state of Illinois. And,
00:27:42
by the way, hundreds of thousands of people no longer live in poverty in the state of Illinois because we raised the
00:27:48
minimum wage. Last question. A massive increase in support, armaments, long-range missiles,
00:27:55
and potentially boots on the ground to Ukraine.
00:28:00
Well, I don't want to send boots on the ground. I think that we have an opport we had an opportunity under with with
00:28:05
Joe Biden in office. He was doing the right thing. Look, they should fight their own war, but we should support
00:28:10
them because I mean, Russia is not our friend. And Russia wants a piece of the
00:28:16
rest of Europe and it is Ukraine that stands in the way. And so, we ought to be supporting uh the nation of Ukraine.
00:28:23
Donald Trump walked away and has let Vladimir Putin essentially kill hundreds
00:28:28
of thousands of people in Ukraine and and now, you know, and he says, "Oh, he's such a great peacemaker." He hasn't
00:28:34
made peace anywhere. He's basically just sided with one side, let them blow over
00:28:40
their competition, their their their enemy, and then, you know, that's that's the way
00:28:45
I lied. I lied. Last one. Removal of section 230 protection for algorithmically elevated content.
00:28:54
social media. I mean, this is probably the probably the the biggest danger to
00:29:00
young people in this country. We have got to put some limits. I tried to pass a a law last spring. Uh we're going to
00:29:09
try again this year uh that would ban cell phones in classrooms across the
00:29:14
state. That's an easy one. And that that's the way we can do it in
00:29:19
the state of Illinois. But there's a whole lot the federal government ought to be doing. All right. So, how close are you to a
00:29:24
presidential run? And tell me in numbers, right? 3 months, 6 months.
00:29:31
We we I love being governor of Illinois. I'm
00:29:36
running for re-election, by the way. Blah blah blah blah blah. Give me
00:29:42
We've got a great bench. What else do you want me to tell you? We've got a great Democrats have probably the greatest bench that we've had for quite
00:29:48
some time in for 2028. I think you're running for president, so you can go now. Um, no. Um, looking good. I'm just
00:29:56
saying you're slimming down. You're looking good. I'm just Anyway, thank you, Governor Pritsker.
00:30:01
We'll let you get back to work. Let's have a round of applause.
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